Health Experts Reveal What’s REALLY Making You Sick | Roundtable

Your hormones, your sleep, your stress, your diet — they may all be affecting your health at a much deeper level than you realize. Dr. Josh Axe sits down with functional medicine expert Dr. Will Cole and fitness and biohacking educator Dylan Gemelli for a no-holds-barred roundtable on what may actually be driving chronic disease, accelerated aging, hormonal dysfunction, and poor metabolic health — and why healing may need to start at the cellular level. In this episode, we learn why Dr. Axe and Dr. Cole believe cellular health could change how we approach chronic disease — and how to identify which systems in your body may be aging faster than others. Uncover what’s really going on in your body with advanced biomarker testing for hormones, thyroid, and metabolism — plus a 1-hour consultation with a Senior Health Advisor! → http://mybloodwork.com Disclaimer: The bloodwork our team runs at mybloodwork.com covers a handful of the biomarkers listed in the guide above — including critical thyroid and metabolic markers — plus a 1-hour consultation with a Senior Health Advisor, but does NOT cover all 25. You will want to consult your primary or functional doctor for the entire list. Thank you to our sponsors! Sunlighten Sauna → https://get.sunlighten.com/axepodcast Manukora Manuka Honey → https://manukora.com/axe Watch The Dr. Josh Axe Show every Monday & Thursday on YouTube → https://www.youtube.com/@drjoshaxe?sub_confirmation=1 🎧 **Early Access!** Our listeners enjoy every episode before anyone else! Tune in below and join our exclusive group of listeners → Spotify → https://bit.ly/DrJoshAxeSpotify Apple Podcasts → https://apple.co/3JDvWcS Order our NEW BOOK, *Heal Your Cells* → healyourcellsbook.com Watch my free training on how to naturally balance your blood sugar and reverse your symptoms → http://DrAxeDiabetesClass.com Discover practical steps you can take today to start healing your thyroid naturally → http://DrAxeThyroidClass.com If you’re ready to start feeling like yourself again and balance your hormones, take my free class → http://DrAxeHormoneClass.com CONNECT WITH DR. JOSH AXE Instagram → https://www.instagram.com/drjoshaxe/ Facebook → https://www.facebook.com/DrJoshAxe/ TikTok → https://www.tiktok.com/@thedrjoshaxeshow/ X → https://x.com/drjoshaxe/ LinkedIn → https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshaxe Website → http://thehealthinstitute.com Sign up for my newsletter → https://bit.ly/4oE9Jf3 Ask Dr. Axe → http://speakpipe.com/drjoshaxe CONNECT WITH DR. WILL COLE Website → https://drwillcole.com Instagram → https://www.instagram.com/drwillcole/ Podcast → The Art of Being Well CONNECT WITH DYLAN GEMELLI Website → https://dylangemelli.com Instagram → https://www.instagram.com/dylangemelli/ YouTube → https://www.youtube.com/@DylanGemelliBiohacking Podcast → The Dylan Gemelli Podcast TIMESTAMPS: 00:00 — The Biggest Drivers of Chronic Disease 02:29 — Welcome to the Health & Longevity Roundtable 03:07 — Why Cellular Health May Be the Future of Medicine 06:10 — Is One of Your Organs Aging Faster Than the Rest? 08:22 — How Early Do Health Problems Really Begin? 12:30 — The Blood Markers That Could Reveal Heart Disease Risk 18:12 — What Insulin Resistance Actually Means 19:59 — The 2 Hormones That Can Throw Everything Off 22:58 — The Surprising Connection Between Sleep & Insulin Resistance 25:10 — “I’ll Sleep When I’m Dead” Is Destroying Your Health 31:32 — Waking Up at 3 A. M.? Cortisol May Be the Reason 32:43 — How to Lower Stress & Support Your Vagus Nerve 37:18 — How Your Mind & Nervous System Affect Your Health 41:32 — Can Childhood Trauma Keep You From Healing? 43:55 — Forgiveness, Faith & the Nervous System 48:11 — Why Dylan Believes Health Starts With “Mind, Body & God” 51:11 — Can Faith Actually Help You Live Longer? 58:35 — The Truth About Peptides & Where Medicine Is Headed 1:03:29 — Are Peptides Overhyped or the Future of Health? 1:05:31 — Conventional vs. F

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Mainstream medicine is largely looking at organs, systems. Really what it is, is actual cellular dysfunction that's going on here.

• 0:07Josh Axe?

  It's insulin and it's cortisol. And if you can fix those two hormones, every other hormone would go back to where it should be.

• 0:13Speaker 02

  I found that I had a high LP little a, I found plaque and I was supposed to be the epitome of walking health. My dad had a heart attack when he was 59. I didn't see that coming.

• 0:23Josh Axe?

  The amount that your insulin spikes from less than six hours of sleep is just wild.

• 0:27Speaker 00

  Sleep is not a luxury. It's a mandate on our health. It's non-negotiable if you want to live long and thrive.

• 0:33Speaker 02

  I used to kind of live by this all gas, no brakes, never rest.

• 0:36Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 0:37Speaker 02

  You think that you're training and doing all of these things that are so great and macho and everything else, and you're just the epitome of poor health.

• 0:44Speaker 00

  Just because you hear about it on a podcast or read it in a book, doesn't mean that you have to do all the things.

• 0:48Speaker 02

  It's always confusion. People going, well, what can I even do? What can I even eat? We're creating a bigger problem. We're literally creating stress when we do that.

• 0:55Speaker 00

  We have such a hubris and arrogance today because we need a randomized control trial. But now the great thing is that the randomized control trials are substantiating what God always said. Surprise, right? God knew what he was talking about.

• 1:06Josh Axe?

  If I have a patient and they start seeing some results, but then they just hit this plateau, there's a childhood trauma that's just never been dealt with, and that's just continually on replay. I'm not smart. I'm not pretty. I'm not pursued. I'm not loved.

• 1:17Speaker 00

  People that are still against people in functional medicine, they're on the wrong side of history because the data speaks for itself. So people are still like it's us versus them. This is not radical. Getting people healthy should not be offensive. If it is, look at your heart.

• 1:42Josh Axe?

  Now, I don't say this lightly, but I believe that the information in Heal Your Cells is the most important health content that you'll read all year. And my new book that I wrote with Dr. Will Cole is now officially available at Amazon, Barnes and Noble, or wherever you get your books. And here's the part I don't want you to miss. When you go to healyourcells.com and add your email and your order number, we'll send you hundreds of dollars in bonus resources, including the Cellular Peptide Guide, the Cellular Supplement Guide, and a masterclass in 40 longevity recipes. Order your copy, then head on over to healyourcells.com. That's healyourcells.com to get hundreds of dollars of content for free today.

• 2:29Speaker 02

  All right, everybody. Welcome to the Roundtable. This is a discussion that we are going to have on everything about today's health and wellness scenario. I am pleasured here to be with Dr. Josh Axe and Dr. Will Cole. We are going to bring you the very best insights that we have. There's going to be some different opinions and thoughts. We're going to compare, we're going to contrast, and we are going to do our very, very best to bring you the best guide that we can to health and wellness. So without further ado, my friends, Dr. Josh Axe and Dr. Will Cole.

• 3:05Josh Axe?

  Thanks for having us.

• 3:06Speaker 00

  Thanks for having us.

• 3:07Josh Axe?

  Yeah, so hey, so excited to be here today and excited to jump into cellular medicine. I really believe that's the future of medicine. I know we've got Dr. Will Cole here, good friend of mine as well. And him and I co-authored a book recently diving into how do you fix your energy? How do you reverse autoimmune disease? How do you reverse the irreversible? When today, a lot of doctors would say it can't be done. Well, today we're going to walk you through how to heal your cells. We're going to really dive into again, what is cellular medicine? What is the mitochondria? How do we fix that? And one of the things I've know that I've seen in practice is conditions like hypothyroidism, perimenopause and menopause, infertility, low testosterone, men, a lot of times these are cellular issues. And there are all natural solutions to these that we can fix a lot of these issues with

• 3:50Josh Axe?

  diet, herbs, advanced therapies, and so much more.

• 3:55Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:55Speaker 02

  So we're going to dive into certain questions today when it comes to cellular health and recovery, but we're going to cover the bases on different aspects that I find Will and Josh to excel at, that I want to get, get the intuition on. So first things first, you guys just co-authored one of the most amazing books that I've ever read. I had the blessing of getting an early read on it. And so the book is called Heal Your Cells, correct?

• 4:21Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 4:21Speaker 02

  And so I would like to dive into cellular health today first because what I have found, and I admittedly, science was my least favorite subject my entire life till about two years ago, and I have enthralled myself in cellular health. Now I want to know from both of you, when you're looking at total health and you're analyzing people and you're looking for things that may be going wrong, correct me if I'm wrong, but is the cellular side the very most important part of health that we need to tackle first and look at when it comes to someone's health?

• 4:56Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think, look, this, this topic is without a doubt the root cause of why we're facing such an epidemic rise of chronic health problems. And when you look at it, I see a lot of people, telehealth patients that have autoimmunity specifically, okay? And it's easy to see with autoimmunity when the immune system is attacking certain parts of the body. Mainstream medicine, conventional medicine is looking at organs oftentimes, right? The immune system's attacking the thyroid. It's Hashimoto's disease, or it's attacking the gut. It's all sort of colitis and Crohn's or the myelin sheath and the nervous system, the brain, it's MS, right? And even if it's not autoimmune, inflammation is really the commonality between just about every health problem.

• 5:38Speaker 00

  But mainstream medicine is largely looking at organs, systems. Really what it is, is actual cellular dysfunction that's going on here. So they're dealing with a downstream macro dysfunction. They're not actually dealing with the root causes. But you look at all the latest science in as far as longevity is concerned, people living long, healthy lives, meaning not having those diseases that they're diagnosed with, it's dealing with cellular dysfunction. And the ripple effect of cellular dysfunction is where you get organ dysfunction. So one of the hallmark studies that we talk about in the book is a Stanford study was published in 2023, and those researchers found, as published in Nature, I believe,

• 6:18Speaker 00

  one in five people in the study, it equals to about 22 million Americans have one organ aging more rapidly than other organs. What that means on a practical level is if that the researchers found if the heart cells, meaning that organ, but the cells of that organ were aging more rapidly, you were at over a 200% increased risk of a heart attack, stroke, heart failure. Your brain, if your brain cells were aging more rapidly, you were about an 80% increased risk of neurodegenerative. So yeah, it's absolutely is the most cutting edge aspect of it. So instead of us being archaic dinosaurs of still looking at just the organs and realizing there's so much more at play here, there's actually a cellular dysfunction. And when you address that root cellular dysfunction, you can have healing.

• 7:03Speaker 00

  And the subtitle of the book is reversing the irreversible, which is a bold statement that we could tell you the D behind that, but, but it's going to ruffle some feathers, but it's true. It's absolutely true. These things are, it's a paradigm shift for people to realize that you can actually heal at the cellular level.

• 7:19Speaker 02

  So you guys brought up points that you just said about the aging of organs. And I kind of got a little freaked out last night when I was reading about that because that's not something that I am accustomed to reading or seeing. And then I started to look into what had happened with both of your fathers. My father passed away when he was 59, so I can relate. I wasn't in tune to the cellular side of things. And understanding what you guys brought up, I want to convey to people the importance of looking at cellular health early. What age would you start to say, okay, we need to start looking at certain aspects of our blood panels and habits? And Josh, I love you to get into this.

• 8:04Speaker 02

  What are we looking for at certain stages of life? So let's say like 20 years old, when you know, they're telling you, oh, you don't need to worry about this. You don't need to look at this. I, that frustrates me to the highest level, you know? And so what are some things, stage of life that we need to be aware of? And what can we address early that's going to prevent some of these things?

• 8:22Josh Axe?

  Yeah, well, I mean, I think it really starts at infancy. I mean, I know that's going right back to the beginning, but let me say this. I mean, here's an example. I know when I started my practice, this was nearly 20 years ago now. I would have mothers bring in their daughters that were starting to have a number of health issues. But you know, one thing that a lot of people, quite a few people are, I think, aware of now is women are hitting, a lot of young girls are hitting their menstrual cycle at 10, 11, 12 years old, commonly 13, when really it shouldn't be until at least 16, 7, and 17. I mean, so, so a lot of girls, rather, if you're hitting it at 12 rather than 17, your hormonal system is aging five years early.

• 9:02Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 9:03Josh Axe?

  I mean, think about that.

• 9:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 9:04Josh Axe?

  You know? And then what does that lead to in the future? Well, increased risk of breast cancer, most likely. And then later on, of course, hitting perimenopause and menopause much earlier. But overall, I mean, a lot of this dysfunction starts off when we're children with insulin resistance is major. We know, you know, type 2 diabetes in children, insulin resistance is much, much higher. So all that being said, I think that really looking at, and by the way, I do want to say something else too. That study said, and it was looking at a very, very, some very basic markers and saying, okay, uh, you know, they, they looked at a number of organ systems. They found about 20% of people had one organ aging faster than others. I will say this though, from clinical experience, I think that number is radically higher. I think it's probably closer to 50%.

• 9:48Josh Axe?

  I mean, I think it's at least double what they have down there because right now I look at blood markers every single day. Okay, we run very extensive tests about and looking at numerous blood panels. And the number of people that come in with high APOB, the number of people that come in with, again, other heart markers related to that, that are off high blood pressure, that's pretty high. The number of people that come in with prediabetes, that's extremely high. So think about that. I think, I think overall, you know, you've got, um, I'm trying to think about how many people are diabetic and pre, prediabetic. It's close to 50% of people, right?

• 10:25Speaker 00

  And then, and then there's the larger continuum. I think depending on the study that you cite, right? But I've seen upwards of 93% of the United States is somewhere on the spectrum.

• 10:35Josh Axe?

  Unhealthy.

• 10:36Speaker 00

  Yeah. So I, what percentage of people actually are diagnosed? I don't know exact, but the reality is that's such a reactive model anyways, right? It's like just wait till you're bad enough to be labeled. By the time somebody's diagnosed, it's four to 10 years prior to that diagnosis that the actual mechanism is at play.

• 10:51Josh Axe?

  Exactly. So, so again, what I found is most people, when they come in and actually get their blood worked on the right way, they tend to be, uh, most people, not everybody, okay? Cause I definitely have some outliers, people that are very healthy and don't. But I think around 50% or more of people have one organ aging faster than the others. And that puts you at great risk of disease. Now, according to that study that. Will's talking about, and this is one we dive into in the book, certain systems aging faster than others is much more deadly. The most deadly was neurological. I think the second most deadly was immune system. If your immune system is aging too quickly, I mean, your chance of cancer, for instance, is just radically higher. And then the next one is cardiovascular disease. So those are the three in terms of mortality rates that really increases your, your risk of mortality.

• 11:35Josh Axe?

  But overall, I mean, think about the value today of knowing if you have that one organ system aging faster than the other. And then one thing we do in the book, heal yourselves, is we lay out specifically, here is exactly how to reverse the age of that organ system, because it's different, right? If somebody's neurologically advancing in age too quickly, of course, there's a greater risk of dementia. What do we do there? We want to really send blood to the brain and support detoxification of that channel as well. So there's ginkgo biloba, there's lion's mane mushroom, there's exercise, extremely important for, for brain health. And then the immune system, you know, doing things, there's herbs like astragalus, there's doing medicinal mushrooms, there's drinking more bone broth, there's things that you can do there to reverse

• 12:19Josh Axe?

  the age of that organ system. So there's great value in knowing which organ system is aging too quickly, and then having an exact protocol on how to start reversing the age of that organ.

• 12:30Speaker 02

  Okay, so question then, because this is, this has got me super curious. We're looking at the aging of organs, we're looking at systems. What are some of the most telltale signs on a blood panel that are going to indicate my heart's aging rapidly here? And if we see that, what do we have to do to address it, given the problem? Give me an example of a problem, maybe a cardiovascular sign, like you said, APOB, for example, we see that, what do we need to do to address it? And then how do we know if the regression is reversing? What is going to show us that we have a reversal there?

• 13:05Speaker 00

  Well, you have to compare, compare the data, right? So I think some of the top things, if we want to know about cardio metabolic issues, I mean, the leading driver of heart attack and stroke is insulin resistance. So I would actually want to look at someone's metabolic profile and look at the optimal ranges, not just the lab's reference range. So people that know this, like, the lab's reference range is largely based on a statistical bell curve of people who go to labs. The people that are predominantly going to labs aren't the healthiest population. So in functional medicine, we're looking at optimal, not average. Where does people that, that live long, healthy, thriving, vibrant lives, that's a tighter interval of the, where the body's functioning the best, the functional range. So, for example, I would look at glucose and A1C.

• 13:49Speaker 00

  I mean, that's, these are the basic, and this is what's so good about this, is most of this stuff is completely within the state, you can go to your standard local doctor and get these labs done and kind of see, it's not the same as the protein markers that the Stanford researchers were looking at, but it's a good aggregation of more or less how fast or how slowly these cells are ticking. So glucose, we want under 90, but fasting blood sugar, A1C, we want under 5.5, around 5.5 would be great. Triglycerides or circulating fats, we want to be under 100. If the body is, has nowhere to put the excess blood sugar, which is fueling the heart attack and stroke, the insulin resistance, the body stores that triglycerides as either fat around the midsection,

• 14:33Speaker 00

  fat around the liver, fatty liver disease, or circulating fat, triglycerides. So you're going to see broader views for all of these on that lab reference range, whether it's LabCorp or Quest or another lab. So we're looking at these optimal ranges. And then, of course, we have to look at serum insulin, we want that to be low and healthy. And then inflammation markers, high sensitivity C-reactive protein, under one, homocysteine, another inflammation marker, we want it to be under seven. And then there's liver enzymes, AST, ALT, GGT, because if a liver enzymes are spiked, sometimes that's years prior and that you ever become a type 2 diabetic, but you're somewhere on this insulin resistance spectrum, that's insulin resistance is the leading cause of heart attack and stroke. That's what's killing one in two

• 15:16Speaker 00

  people of America, is because of insulin resistance. So that's where I would start. And then from there, you can look at APOB, LP little a, and then what I would also run from a cholesterol standpoint, it was called a nuclear magnetic resonance, or NMR test, which looks at the particle sizes. So total cholesterol by itself, I mean, you know this, but for people that don't know, total cholesterol by itself, it's like flipping a coin. It's about 50% of people who have heart attacks and strokes have normal to low cholesterol. So it's like, is that 200 total cholesterol, good quality or bad quality? It could be great quality. So it's not demonizing cholesterol by itself, but realizing that's an incomplete perspective. So we measure what are

• 15:58Speaker 00

  called small dense LDL particles, which are actually protein carriers of cholesterol. And we want these oxidized, rusted, inflamed BB bullets, these small dense LDL particles to be as low as possible. But we, doesn't mean we have low cholesterol, it means the quality is better. So these fluffy, buoyant, large buoyant LDL particles are actually healthy. So you could have 250 cholesterol, but really great quality, and I'd much rather have that than someone has 150 total cholesterol, but high small dense LDL particles and high inflammation markers. So the context around cholesterol, it's so important because there's so much, because that's where people go to, right? It's like, oh, if my cholesterol's above 200, that's the devil,

• 16:38Speaker 00

  and I have to get it down. Well, yeah, for most people, other than, I mean, look, other than middle-aged men who have had heart attacks, and there's a very slight protection that statin drugs bring, the vast majority of people, it's not, the only benefit they're getting from statin drugs is maybe, researchers argue, it acts as a mild anti-inflammatory, maybe, for some people. Yeah, that's being benevolent. The reality is, it's not cholesterol that's killing people, it's the inflammation that damages the particles that carry cholesterol, that's the issue. And statin drugs mildly maybe affect inflammation.

• 17:13Speaker 02

  Thank you for pointing some of those things out, because that's kind of, on a personal note, and I've talked to you about this, Josh, the, the struggles that I've had conveying this. I've been studying cardiology five years now with some of the top cardiologists in the world, and making this kind of like my life thing, because I found that I had a high LP little a, I found plaque, and I was supposed to be the epitome of walking health. And this is, some of these things are uncontrollable. My dad had a heart attack when he was 59. I didn't see that coming. And so I want to make people aware of the things that we need to look at, so that they can be ahead of the curve. Had I had some blood work done, maybe in my 30s, or even later 30s, let's say, I would have been on the, on the up and up of knowing, hey, you've got this gene,

• 17:57Speaker 02

  man, you got to do some, some different things, make some changes. Josh, do me a favor, can you just break down what insulin resistance means? Because we, we say that, but I know some people that have written me when I've talked about it and been like, what is that? You know?

• 18:12Josh Axe?

  Yeah, sure. Yeah. So I mean, insulin resistance is where we have these beta cell, we have cells on the pancreas. And imagine that, you know, you have a, my grandmother used to have one of these, she had a loudspeaker, and she would go up and like yell, like in your ear, because she couldn't hear anything, but she would, and, and literally, and you know, grandma, I'm like, I'm going to go deaf, you know?

• 18:32Speaker 00

  She's just doing that to talk to you, or just to, or just to?

• 18:36Josh Axe?

  Well, so, so, I mean, I'll give you the whole background. They owned a campground in Lagos, like 50 acres. So she did it. But then, like, sometimes she would do it when you're standing right in front of her. Yeah. So, yeah, exactly. But you can basically, these cells can go, they can go deaf, right? So they don't hear anymore, they don't work right anymore. So insulin resistance is where, that's the thing about insulin resistance, right? Your cells are kind of, become resistant to insulin, they become deaf. And so it's not the insulin itself, it's the receptor for insulin, because what happens is you have insulin, which is a peptide hormone, and it goes in, and basically, it's like a key unlocks the door. Now, it can help bring sugar

• 19:20Josh Axe?

  into the cell, right? So sugar is fine if it's in the cell, because then your cell, your mitochondria is going to take it, and it's going to turn it into energy ATP, cellular energy, we want that. But if we have insulin resistance, sugar stays in the blood. Okay? And when it stays in the blood, it's inflammatory, it's going to cause the plaque buildup. So to Will's point, it's going to increase the risk of cardiovascular inflammation, plaque buildup, but really inflammation throughout the entire body. And so to Will's point, if there really is a single, I kind of, I typically say this, there are really two hormones, for the most part, that I think are the ones we want to pay attention to the most. It's insulin, and it's cortisol. And

• 20:01Josh Axe?

  if you can fix those two hormones, typically, almost every other hormone in the body will just get, will just do exactly what it should do, is a dominant, like, if you, if cortisol goes high, now insulin goes high. Well, if insulin's high, every other hormone is going to be thrown out. And when you think about the cascade too, insulin goes high, well, typically, sometimes estrogen will follow it, progesterone will drop down. Well, now estrogen's high for men, well, it's going to aromatize their testosterone, that'll become more estrogen. And there's all these things that happen. But typically, what people will start doing is they'll start chasing the downstream, this happens most with thyroid hormones. It's like, okay, we're going to go and chase TSH all over the place. When they would, if you would just fix insulin and cortisol, every other hormone would go back to where it should be.

• 20:46Speaker 00

  Yeah. And on that note, I'm just, as he was talking about this, is that, again, we were talking about insulin resistance, but what is it? It's a cellular dysfunction. So it's talked about in the research as the information theory of aging, and the information model, and I like the way that Dr. Agg said it, he said, they become deaf. That's what, what's actually happening, is that it can't, they, cells lose recognition of self, they get confused. So if it happens in the pancreas, or the liver is where insulin resistance is happening, the liver cells become confused on who they are, who the cell, how God created that, that liver is to recognize, I'm a liver cell. It's forgetting, it's called ex-differentiation, is the term, is that cells

• 21:28Speaker 00

  all get confused, there's cellular confusion, they don't know how to function, and haywire. And then, just like humans, when one becomes kind of toxic and dysregulated, the people around them can be kind of dysregulated too. And that's what happens on a cellular level, the whole liver becomes insulin resistant.

• 21:46Josh Axe?

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• 22:26Josh Axe?

  go to mybloodwork.com, that's mybloodwork.com, so we can help you regain your health.

• 22:34Speaker 02

  Okay, so here's what I want to do, and I want to do this fair, because I know how this goes. If I ask you one thing, and I want both your opinions, it's like, well, he just took all my answers.

• 22:43Speaker 00

  Yeah, okay, he can have it.

• 22:46Josh Axe?

  Yeah, we both have plenty to say.

• 22:48Speaker 02

  I want one from each of you on both insulin resistance and cortisol. What are the main drivers and causes of these problems? So give me one for each.

• 22:58Speaker 00

  Okay, I'm gonna go first.

• 22:59Josh Axe?

  Sure. Okay, so for insulin resistance, well, I can tell you, I think, from in terms of studies, what probably impacts it the most, and it's probably, and I would actually say this for both, my answer is poor sleep. If somebody's sleeping less than six hours a night, I mean, I want to say, because I covered this recently on a podcast, I mean, the amount that your insulin spikes from less than six hours of sleep is just wild.

• 23:28Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 23:28Josh Axe?

  It's crazy.

• 23:29Speaker 00

  Yeah, just one night of poor sleep can spike the high sensitivity C-reactive protein that I mentioned. It's true. And that's why shift workers, we just can't control that. I mean, it's like, if you're working a night turn in a factory, or a nurse, or a truck driver, you know, people that work the graveyard shift, they call it graveyard for a reason. I mean, they're at increased risk of insulin resistance because their whole sleep-wake cycle is off. So part of it's sleep, and then part of it's like our connection with light, and the way that light impacts the circadian rhythm.

• 23:56Josh Axe?

  In fact, when we were writing this book together, I spent a lot of time, one thing I really like to do is I like to say, okay, what does all the current medical research say, but what is all of the ancient practitioners in Chinese medicine and Ayurveda, what does the Bible say? I really tried to look at those things. And so I worked with AI on this, and I kept asking it, what is typically the first thing in terms of hallmarks of aging or health problems? What is typically the first thing that tips off that cascade? And the thing it came back with constantly was disruption of circadian rhythms.

• 24:25Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 24:25Josh Axe?

  Was the tipping point for most people.

• 24:28Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's the light is that it resets the cell clock. So if you're not getting sleep, if you're not sleeping well, if you don't have good sleep hygiene, it's really gonna throw it off.

• 24:36Josh Axe?

  And think about even genesis and the genesis of disease. Again, it's, you know, the first thing that the Bible is talking about is night and day. I mean, it's very, you know.

• 24:46Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's, it is a massive one. So that's an interesting pick, but it's true. It's true. It is true. People don't think about that. They think, oh, sleep's this thing that's like, yeah, we know we should sleep, but it's, are they really prioritizing this deep medicine? And they're slowly depleting, and not to sleep, but like, what's their relationship with light and darkness as far as the sleep-wake cycle? It's profoundly important for insulin resistance.

• 25:10Speaker 02

  I'm gonna say something here, and I don't want to sound morbid, but you know that statement, I'll sleep when I die, and I used to kind of live by this all gas, no brakes, never rest, and kind of that comment. You will die a lot sooner without sleep, because you're going to run yourself into the ground. And I have come from that fitness bodybuilding world first, before I started to really tackle total health alignment. And you run into this overtraining, and that overtraining cascades into this just like dark hole of brain fog and inconsistent eating patterns, inconsistent sleep patterns, and before you know it, you think that you're training and doing all of these things that are so great and macho and everything else, and you're just, you're the epitome of poor health.

• 25:54Josh Axe?

  Can I tell you, though, so I remember, I worked, my first job out of high school when I got to college was I worked as a personal trainer for four years and worked in a gym. And I remember, you know, looking at some of the people that were more semi-pros or people doing it kind of for, you know, maybe for vanity, and a lot of that culture was, to your point, don't sleep, you know, drink just straight alcohol so we don't like mess up our carb, you know, our macros. I mean, that sort of thing. But here's something else I will tell you. The professionals, the Arnold Schwarzeneggers, the Jay Cutlers, the Ronnie, those guys, they slept a crazy, I'm talking about 12 hours a day, they would sleep.

• 26:35Speaker 00

  Yeah, recovery.

• 26:36Speaker 02

  Well, that's where all the muscle growth happens.

• 26:38Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 26:39Speaker 02

  You know, and the testosterone levels, that's when they get the highest boost, the growth hormone is sleep, it's recovery. If God had to sleep on the seventh day, it wasn't that he needed to, he was showing us the example of this is what you need to do.

• 26:51Josh Axe?

  Yeah, I want to say, it was, it was a crazy sleep schedule. I want to say, and I might be wrong on this, but I thought it might have been Jay Cutler, something like this, he, what it was, he slept like four hours, and then woke up, and then four hours, and then another four hours. He slept three, four hour shifts.

• 27:05Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 27:05Josh Axe?

  So they can get enough meals in, too, for chloric intake.

• 27:09Speaker 00

  Yeah, recovery is so important.

• 27:11Speaker 02

  And I lived this world, and I trained a lot of professional bodybuilders and athletes, so I saw the ones that made it, that lasted. They prioritized rest and recovery over train, train, train, train, train.

• 27:23Speaker 00

  And not to bring everything back to the cells, but I will do that with, for heal your cells, is that that's where the cells recover. That's where these autophagy pathways happen, that the body needs to have the cellular debris to be cleaned up, and that happens when you sleep. So yeah, sleeping when you're, to say, I'll sleep when I'm dead, it's, sleep is not a luxury. It's a mandate on our health. It's non-negotiable if you want to live long and thrive.

• 27:47Josh Axe?

  And I will say this, too, and I know, Will, you'll agree with us, or I think you will, is that, you know, I do think sleep is probably the one that, I mean, you can just absolutely destroy your health so fast if you're sleeping four to six hours a night. But also, I mean, you know, you know, there were, it was supersize me, you know, that, I mean, you can absolutely destroy your health with poor nutrition, high stress, you can see people physically aging radically, you know, fast, I mean, lack of movement, I mean, there's, there's a lot, loneliness, that's a whole nother category, but that always shown to take something like 14 years off someone's life.

• 28:19Speaker 00

  Yeah, you're starting with light and sleep, but it's, I mean, if you want more of our hot takes on what causes it, there's a whole list.

• 28:27Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. You just brought up what I was actually going to next, was when you don't sleep enough, think about how that affects your hunger. You start to have strange cravings in the morning and...

• 28:40Speaker 00

  Insatiable food cravings, it's throwing off, it's a whole sleep-wake cycle's off. So yeah, you're a hangry monster, and you're eating foods that don't love you back because you are at the whim of these dysregulated hormones.

• 28:51Speaker 02

  Yeah. Would you call that like metabolic dysfunction from lack of sleep? Is that kind of what it would fall under?

• 28:56Speaker 00

  And then it compounds, like, it's like, if you're not sleeping well, you're also irritable, which raises, impacting your relationships. You're gonna be more lonely because people are gonna be, wanna be around you. I mean, there's a cascade of that, where it's so important.

• 29:09Speaker 02

  You know what I used to tell myself and then my wife, because she's just like, why, why don't you sleep longer? What are you doing this to yourself? And I said, I just don't feel good when I sleep over six hours. I feel like I'm hungover and everything. And then I started doing it a few times, and then I said, okay, I'm setting this alarm clock, and I'm getting Mando seven. I'd hope to get eight, you know?

• 29:28Speaker 00

  Isn't that funny, how the things we tell ourselves? It's like, it's so funny, because it's we identify with these things that may or not be true, and make it our personality, right? It's like, I'm a night person, I'm a night owl is another one, right? It's like, are you really a night owl? Is this just, just because something's calm and you normalized it?

• 29:46Josh Axe?

  So my daughter just started preschool. She went, you know, started this week, and, I mean, I go to bed right now, I mean, I'm in bed at like 7:55. I'm not kidding. Well, because anyways, I put them down, and I'll see, it takes like, it takes so long before she falls asleep, and then I'm like, you know what, I'm gonna go to sleep now as well.

• 30:05Speaker 00

  I love that for you, man.

• 30:06Speaker 02

  I do, too. Jeez, I'm getting my second gym session for the day in at nine or 10. I'm not even kidding you, I'm trying so hard to flip that switch. It's, it's hard. You should be. I mean, honestly, you guys, is the best sleep time like between 10:00 PM and 2:00 AM, does that sound about right, where you're getting the best deep sleep?

• 30:26Josh Axe?

  It's when you're getting deep the most. For sure, that's also when, at least in Chinese medicine, that's also when liver, which, you know, the liver does everything. I mean, it's...

• 30:36Speaker 00

  Well, that's what the insulin resistance is predominantly having. And that's a good point, too. It's like, these hours matter. It's not just about the hours, the, the time of the day, because of the darkness and our connection with light and the lack of it are so important. And something that we talk about in the book, because this is something that Josh brings into such a passion for traditional Chinese medicine, that it's just, that's what these experts in TCM over thousands of years knew, that these specific hours were associated with these organs, and now research is just catching up with this, right? And we don't even know the half of it, in our hubris of modernity, how these, it's not just the hours. And that's why this, the shift workers that work the graveyard

• 31:16Speaker 00

  turn, yes, they have to make the best of a not ideal situation, but ultimately, nighttime is the best time to be sleeping for so many ways. It's never gonna, it's a counterfeit to be sleeping during the day. Yes, you have to do what you have to do, but it is not just the hours, but the time itself.

• 31:32Josh Axe?

  You know, one of the patterns that I see in a lot of patients, I'm sure you do as well, is the 3:00 AM wake up, like the 3:00 AM, and then have a hard time kind of falling back asleep after 3:00 AM. And that's where, that's the cortisol, we could like the reverse curve. It's like, okay, well, you know, your, your body is so cortisol-driven that your body's like, okay, well, I know we got a lot going on, it just starts, it starts peaking way too early. So if people are waking, and that actually in Chinese medicine, they call that liver qi stagnation, but it typically is caused from, yeah, just, just people that pack their schedule from the moment they wake up till the time they go to bed, and they just are always like, trying to achieve and win, and eventually

• 32:14Josh Axe?

  just, just living in a sympathetic state with not enough parasympathetic, they'll start to have the 3:00 AM wake up call. And so that's, that's a sign of high cortisol, and that's something that then, you know, it's at the root of a lot of problems.

• 32:26Speaker 00

  It is.

• 32:27Speaker 02

  What would you recommend for somebody that's doing that, like, 3:00 AM wake up, can't go back to sleep, and going to bed at a good time, you know, 10, 11 o'clock, if that is a cortisol problem? What are some practices or things they can do to make a change that's non-medicinal?

• 32:43Speaker 00

  I would say that neuroendocrine axis, the intersection between the nervous system and its communication with the endocrine system, or the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis, what Dr. X was talking about, that what's my nervous system saying to my adrenal glands to release his cortisol? Someone being constantly stuck in that fight or flight, freeze, fawn sympathetic tone like Dr. X has talked about, we have to be supporting vagal tone. This person almost always has poor vagal tone. We talked about the gym a moment ago. Well, if someone's biceps or core is weak, they have to strengthen it. This aspect of their nervous system is weak.

• 33:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:19Speaker 00

  The vagus nerve, the largest cranial nerve in the body, it gets, it's the root word, wanderer. It is responsible for that resting, digesting, optimal rem, deep, heart rate variability, all the things we want to feel grounded and get good night's sleep. That nervous, part of the nervous system is weak. So we need to strengthen it and do some vagal toning. So there's lots of ways to do vagal toning, but I typically have telehealth patients pick something active and something passive. So something active is something that you actively are doing, that it's a practice that you show up. It could be breath work. It could be gargling. It could be meditation, journaling, because this has to do with stress and trauma.

• 34:01Speaker 00

  You know, yes, it's currently stressed, but journaling is a great way to sort of somatically clear out any stress. Some basic, you mentioned not medicinally, like magnesium can be a great tool here. Things that are supportive of the parasympathetic. And then something passive, I like transcutaneous Vagus nerve stimulation, like the devices that you wear on the ear or neck that kind of are kind of like e-stim on these auricular branches of the vagus nerve to tone it. So actually, our CEO over here, Adam, was telling me, I told him, I'm like, get this device and he's sleeping better, his HRV is improved.

• 34:35Speaker 02

  Neuropod or what do you have him doing?

• 34:36Speaker 00

  Palsetto.

• 34:37Speaker 02

  Palsetto.

• 34:37Speaker 00

  So Neuropod and Palsetto are my two favorites.

• 34:39Speaker 02

  I've used Apollo Neuro, which I use frequently and Palsetto were the ones that I've used too.

• 34:43Speaker 00

  Apollo Neuro is great too. It works differently because it's oscillation in the bone, but it's, but it's similar mechanism.

• 34:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:49Speaker 00

  It's working on these different pathways of toning the vagus nerve, the parasympathetic. So start there, but you have to be consistent. It would be like doing it once and saying it didn't work would be like me going to the gym once and saying, well, that gym didn't work for me.

• 35:00Speaker 02

  Right.

• 35:01Speaker 00

  You have to tone a week, something that's weak.

• 35:03Speaker 02

  I'll tell you, I had a, by the way, in Chinese medicine, the, they have a formula for increasing vagal tone and it's called the wonder formula or the free and easy wonder formula for, because it's all anyways. So to your point, what we call the vagus nerve.

• 35:17Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 35:17Speaker 02

  But we had, you know, Josh Rad, I had him on the show.

• 35:20Speaker 00

  Yeah, he's great.

• 35:21Speaker 02

  And, um, and he had told me, he said, you know, I have patients gargle if they have constipation, uh, which again is vagal tone issue, um, is, has them gargle for two minutes every hour on the hour.

• 35:33Speaker 00

  I love that.

• 35:34Speaker 02

  And I was like, I'm going to try that. I went home and did this and I was blown away. And I can tell you, do this, right? Just so, and at first, anyways, I tried to do the full two minutes. I realized, okay, no, I need to stop and breathe out of my nose some because I could not.

• 35:49Speaker 00

  He was drowning himself in the kitchen.

• 35:51Speaker 02

  So what I tell people to do, gargle 30 seconds, breathe for 10 seconds, gargle 30 seconds, but do it for two, two and a half minutes.

• 35:59Speaker 00

  Difficult, probably.

• 36:01Speaker 02

  It's, it's a little difficult.

• 36:02Speaker 00

  Is it a long two minutes, Dr. X?

• 36:04Speaker 02

  I would say it's a long two minutes. Let me say this, I mean, I, I was blown away at how much I could just tell. I just went right into the parasympathetic.

• 36:12Speaker 00

  That's cool.

• 36:13Speaker 02

  It was unbelievable. I mean, I've done breathwork and breathwork is great, but I truly think gargling is the fastest single way to get yourself in, into the state. You can't just do it for 10 seconds. I know you gotta do that full two minutes, but it's, it's incredible.

• 36:27Speaker 00

  And it's like this, this is just free other than your time, right? This is like, so that person that wakes up at 3:00 AM, that's what they need to do. It's the sign, that's a check engine light. That 3:00 AM wake is a check engine light that their nervous system is ready to go. Cause what's happening there mechanistically is that cortisol is supposed to be increased in the morning. So that's normal. It's happening a bit early and then what's happening to glucose, cortisol is coming up, glucose is being released from the liver and you're waking up. Your whole sleep wake cycle is a bit too hypervigilant. You're like, okay, yeah, you need that to happen, but not at 3:00 AM.

• 37:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:00Speaker 00

  Like calm it down a little bit. So just regulate to kind of an adaptogenic type balancing approach. Maybe that happening not as extreme at 6:00 AM and waking up refreshed. Reading a book is another way, good way to do it.

• 37:13Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 37:14Speaker 00

  Just like reading, it grounds you, it centers you, not looking at a screen, but reading a book.

• 37:18Speaker 02

  I was going to say, not an e-reader, like a real physical book.

• 37:21Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 37:22Speaker 02

  So I want to stick to the neuro side of things right now. And admittedly, I did 15 some odd years of nothing but fitness, nutrition, not understanding the total control that the mind has over every single thing that we do. And, and I, and I tell people this, look at some of the best athletes that we've ever encountered. Kobe, what was it? It was not Kobe athlete, it was Mamba mentality. Why was everybody so scared of Tiger Woods? Cause he put the fear into everybody because he was so mentally strong that he knew he was going to, to whoop you when it came down to it. Same with Jordan. So it's the mentality aspect of it. And likewise, the people that fold under pressure, they're the ones that never got elite that had all the talent. Same thing with, with body, right?

• 38:06Speaker 02

  So like you guys are saying cortisol spikes, well, there's a lot of stress and a lot of things going on internally that are caused by that. I did a very, very severe nervous system reset and.

• 38:20Speaker 00

  What'd you do?

• 38:20Speaker 02

  It was with Dr. Sean Drake and he called it soul surgery. And this is, God plays a big part in this treatment and this therapy. And I, I challenged myself and I said, you know what? For some reason, you want to be compassionate. You have it in your heart and it's not coming out. You're, you're stoic all of a sudden and you don't want to be, you're super irritable, but you're eating well, you're training, you're doing all these things. What the hell is wrong with you? You're spiritually good, you're praying all the time. Why are you doing this? Why are you so unable to stay focused? And why are you not resentful, but just kind of angry? Things that aren't who you are.

• 39:02Speaker 02

  So what I did was I went and sat with him and he was able to pull all of these different traumas out of me or things that bothered me that I don't think about. I didn't even know they were there and they were hidden inside. And I was able to do this through like the, the breath, when I tell you the breath work, I mean, I'd have to sit and show you, this was so intense.

• 39:21Speaker 00

  Was it like holotropic or?

• 39:23Speaker 02

  It was deep. Deep and then like heavy and then it was with sounds and vibrations. And then there was a lot of connection with God and me opening up my mind to be able to hear him talk. Because what happens is noise, all of this noise and distraction. And I, I don't know where the hell it's coming from. I can't focus. Even when I'm reading scripture, uh, my mind is like, it's, it's soaking it in, but not fully. So I was able to release this and once I was able to do this, I just developed this deeper appreciation of everything. Everything my wife said, it was like, ah, you know, I appreciate that you're taking the time to do this, not, man, you're saying this and it's.

• 40:04Speaker 00

  Being irritable.

• 40:04Speaker 02

  Being irritable for no reason. My mom would say something and I'd just be like, man, stop, you know? And instead now I'm listening, oh, I appreciate the conversation. Or for instance, I would do this, oh, I have to go do this interview today, or I have to go do this. And now it's, man, I get to.

• 40:21Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 40:21Speaker 02

  I get to, I get to do this.

• 40:23Speaker 00

  Wow. And that just shows you this, like someone's heart state and their mental state, how that impacts so many different things, right?

• 40:30Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 40:30Speaker 00

  Cause if you're in that dysregulated state, how we show up to the world, that shows up and how you, the foods you eat and the, how you treat people, how you sleep, all of those things, that's really profound.

• 40:40Speaker 02

  It is.

• 40:40Speaker 00

  Was it just one session that you did?

• 40:42Speaker 02

  No, I mean, I have had to, I've had to refresh and I've, I started to do this in the morning where if I don't get up, do all my prayers. So when I get up in the morning, my morning routine is I read my scriptures, like the morning scriptures. I'm Catholic, but if you're not, whatever, it doesn't matter, just read, right?

• 41:00Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 41:00Speaker 02

  Then I say a prayer over my wife. Then I, you know, say, I go shower, shave, but I'm saying prayer while I'm doing it. Then I do my walk and then I go do breath work. Then it's time for meetings and you know what? If I got a meeting and I'm sorry, like I have to push it back because I have to do this or I'm not going to be right and I'm not going to be good to you, myself or anybody else. And I think the important thing that I'm trying to stress here is get your mind right first before you start your day.

• 41:25Speaker 00

  So it's so true.

• 41:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:27Speaker 00

  It's, I mean, the Bible says that, I mean, from your heart, things flow from there, right? It's like everything flows from there.

• 41:32Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah, I totally agree. I mean, one of, one of the things, you know, I think Will and I both, uh, both feel really strongly about is dealing with past childhood trauma and using faith-based medicine. I mean, I, I see it constantly where I think anytime I have a patient who.

• 41:50Josh Axe?

  Let me just say at least 90% of the time, if I have a patient and they start seeing some results, but then they just hit this plateau. One, I think the most common thing, especially if it's been for a long time, they've dealt with an issue, there's a childhood trauma that's just never been dealt with. And that's just continually on replay. I'm not smart. I'm not pretty. I'm not pursued. I'm not loved. I'm worthless. I mean, there's something there that's feeding the fear, the anxiousness, that over analyzing every last thing, the upset, you know, whatever, whatever out of balance emotion there is, there's some sort of trauma or just not knowing, you know, there's, I say this quote constantly. So my, my audience

• 42:31Josh Axe?

  will, will have heard me say this before, but my favorite quote in the world is an A W quote, Tozer quote, and it's something like this. He says, what you believe about God, or what you think about when you think about God is the most important thing about you. And so because you think about like, if God is like an old, you know, scary figure that's just judging you, or he's distant and really doesn't care, or he's benevolent, he's just thinking about you every moment. And it's like, you know, if anyone has kids, like my daughter, I think about her all day. And, you know, like she's doing swim team now, like, I can't wait to go and watch her and help her and like, I just, but if you believe that God is like that, interacting in your life and constantly working things out for

• 43:14Josh Axe?

  your good, what that does to your state is just crazy. And so all that being said, I think that there are so many things that are spiritual that are in the past that have never been dealt with. And then to your other point, and I think if you can, and the number one way to deal with those things is going to the Bible and following the things the Bible says. It's praying and first connecting with God. It's confessing any of your sins, anything, you know, getting that out there, having other people pray for you. And this is just living rightly. But then also writing.

• 43:45Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 43:45Josh Axe?

  I mean, the studies on writing for, for overcoming anxiousness and fear. I mean, it's, it's probably the most powerful therapy in terms of like an exercise you can do.

• 43:55Speaker 00

  And then part of that forgiveness, the other part is, is the part of the confession. Like after that is like forgiving others, because the bitterness and rage and like what that does to our sympathetic tone, and then forgiving ourselves for things that maybe we did intentionally or unintentionally.

• 44:11Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 44:11Speaker 00

  Uh, the so important part of that whole, yeah, it's all there. It's all there. I mean, yeah, surprise, right? God knew what he was talking about. We have such a hubris, again arrogance today, that it's sometimes it's the stuff that we just overlook because we need a randomized control trial. But now the great thing is that the randomized control trials are substantiating what God always said, not just in this circumstance, but many others.

• 44:34Josh Axe?

  You know, there's the parable of a sower in the Bible, and that somebody's sowing seeds and that, you know, it either falls on, uh, you know, hard ground and it can't get, get into the soil, or it's, uh, you know, there's a different, but, but the one that stands out to me the most, the reason I'm bringing this up, as you mentioned, busyness. I think in, in the modern day, that is the one that it hits people the hardest, is that these weeds go up and choke off the plant to where it cannot grow and flourish. And so like, I just think about my home like this morning, like I was gonna have a little bit of quiet time. And my office right now is not set up, like I can still hear everything. And I've got dogs barking. I've got my two year old, like just screaming. She's got a

• 45:16Josh Axe?

  wiggle bike. She's flying through the room. And I'm like, you know, I don't know if it's possible for me to get like just a quiet moment. But this is why Jesus woke up before the sun came up. Now, you know, he had an early bedtime, I'm sure.

• 45:33Speaker 00

  Just go to bed at your time.

• 45:34Josh Axe?

  Yeah. But again, that quiet time and that stillness to hear and to actually let your spirit rest and to connect with God. And that's important. Well, so what I typically do now is I go for a walk.

• 45:45Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 45:46Josh Axe?

  Cause that's where I can typically get that.

• 45:48Speaker 00

  And that's, that's an interesting point, because that 3am that we talked about earlier, the context around that's so important. Are they waking up panic, heart racing, and they can't fall back asleep? I've had some telehealth patients over the years, when we improve vagal tone, and nourish the body with food, deal with all the facets of that would regulate that neuroendocrine axis, sometimes not maybe at 3am, but maybe 5am they'll wake up. But they wake up refreshed. They don't, they're not anxious. When we track the REM deep sleep and HRV, it looks great. And research shows that even if you don't have all like 12 hours of sleep, but it's a great quality, let's just say six, eight hours of sleep, that may be the body just being balanced the way that God made it. And you do have that time

• 46:33Speaker 00

  in the morning to like, go and like, walk, get out in nature, put your feet on some grass. So that's not always a bad thing. We don't, I don't want to pathologize early mornings because it's a tragic point. It's one of the best times to connect with God in the quiet, in the stillness, before anybody else is awake, uh, for you to do amazing things. Sometimes people are freaked out by that. I can't go back to bed. It's five o'clock, 6am. Maybe it's just time. Cause you've improved. Your, your new normal is you are regulated and you get up early naturally without an alarm.

• 46:59Speaker 02

  Yeah. I got a new patient for you because my mom does not listen to a word I say.

• 47:04Speaker 00

  What's your mom's name?

• 47:04Speaker 02

  Nancy.

• 47:05Speaker 00

  Nancy will listen to us.

• 47:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's, that's what I'm saying. I'm gonna send her to you. You guys have a smoother tone than I do with her, probably.

• 47:12Speaker 00

  Sometimes it's the messenger, not the message.

• 47:15Speaker 02

  That's exactly my point.

• 47:16Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 47:16Speaker 02

  Okay. So touching on a couple of things that you guys said. One, in the Bible, God made his points in the whispers, in the breath and the whispers. He sent the, and when they, there was a thing I just read with Elijah, when he went to the mountain and there was a storm and there was the thunder. But then that was the whisper from God that was the present message. And that's, that resonated with me because it was like a direct punch in the gut of you never block out the noise. I pray well, but I don't listen good. You know what I mean?

• 47:49Speaker 00

  Milwaukee to the club. I think we're all kind of hard headed to know.

• 47:52Speaker 02

  But, but then it came to the point of, if you were having a conversation with your wife, would you talk the whole time and never let her speak? So if you're talking to God and you're sitting there talking the whole time, shouldn't you let him speak? And I've been trying to implement that into prayer time, too.

• 48:05Speaker 00

  So good.

• 48:06Speaker 02

  So I sent you guys, um, last week, a speech that I gave, I sent you a clip of it.

• 48:11Speaker 00

  Yes, really. Such a good talk.

• 48:13Speaker 02

  And I, and I, this has nothing to do with me, but it has to do with the thought behind the speech. I now am on a mission. Everybody wants to talk to me about peptides and hormones and everything else that, that the juicy topics of the day, which I am more than happy to discuss, and they play a certain role in health. But foundationally, and this is what I want to talk to you both about, I have a foundation and my belief set. And when I go speak, this is what I'm talking about. And I guess the conventions are too good for me if they don't want to allow me to speak on this, which is fine. I'm not gonna stop. And it is mind, body, but it's not mind and body, spirit. It's mind, body, and God. And that connection that I have found to align full health, because we can nourish ourselves with knowledge, we can nourish ourselves with foods. But if we don't nourish

• 48:58Speaker 02

  our soul, we will never be cellular health. We will never find the right nutrition plan. We'll never find anything. We're gonna be chasing something forever. And I have found, once I am able to get people to connect with God in one way or another, and any of us just hear me out, let me get into your heart. Just let me, let me, let you think about it. Even if you're the biggest atheist on the planet, non believer, hateful, whatever, let me just get in there. And you start to think, it starts to change the way that we move internally, which then allows inflammation to go down. My big point was, and I asked the crowd this, and I said, this is a rhetorical question and I'll wait. How many angry, negative

• 49:41Speaker 02

  people do you look at and go, wow, they're the epitome of health? Let me check their blood panels. And I bet you anything, we're gonna see a lot of disruption on blood markers. So I say, there's a lot of knowledge, a lot of people that have a lot of brain power with science and all of the things that we're talking about. But we carry, I believe, and I don't want to toot my horn, this is what I pray for is the wisdom aspect is what carries us. That's what makes us really know. I know a lot of people that know so many facts and studies and everything that don't know the first way to use it. In fact, use it to hurt people.

• 50:16Speaker 00

  Right.

• 50:16Speaker 02

  And hurt themselves. So that's why I say, when you get connected with God, you understand wisdom, you understand Holy Spirit messaging, that's, that's where you speak. That's why I always, when I go do something, I don't speak off of scripts. I can't, because it's whatever's coming out of me that I'm being fed. I always go into something with a, with a plan that somebody sends me and I can't stay on it because I, I believe that when I go in and start asking and teaching, it's, it's what was supposed to be asked.

• 50:42Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 50:42Speaker 02

  You know what I mean? And so my, my question to you guys is, do you believe in what I'm saying? Because for me, it's like, well, when you connect with God, gratitude comes first. When you have that gratitude, you're able to appreciate everything and then deliver. You can be healthy. When you give to others, you get back tenfold. But when it's all about Dylan, Josh, Will, and all of this, we don't get anything, man. It's unfulfilling. And then it trickles down into your health.

• 51:08Speaker 00

  Yeah, I agree. Go Josh.

• 51:09Speaker 02

  Sorry, sorry, I get going and

• 51:11Josh Axe?

  Yeah, well, I think there's a few things there. I think, you know, there's two main things I'm thinking of. One is kind of even a little bit of a theological idea here, and that is, it's interesting. I don't know if you guys know this, but in some churches, they read God's word first, and then they pray and invite the Holy Spirit. And some they pray first, and then they read God's word. Because some, you know, if you're in more, let's say charismatic circles, they put a greater emphasis on the Holy Spirit. If you have more, let's say a Presbyterian, like a Reform church, it's a little bit on God's word. But all that being said, I mean, I think it's very important that you're kind of doing both to your point with, should you prepare for a speech or let the spirit like flow through, like,

• 51:50Josh Axe?

  let that lead you? And the answer is really, you should be both. I mean, nobody's gonna give their best speech typically if they're not prepared and have some level of study and understanding. But also having a level of, just not holding on too tightly, a level of looseness to let God work, I think, will lead to the best outcome. And so, so I do, I do agree with that. And then, and then also to your point, you know, I mean statistically, clergy, people that are professional in professional ministry, they do live longer. And then also, there's plenty of studies about religious attendance, people living longer, having more peace, more happiness. I think this goes back to something I mentioned earlier, and that is, you know, your view of God, your relationship with God. If you know that God is working for you, if you know that you're gonna live for eternity,

• 52:32Josh Axe?

  that there's just a greater level of peace with that, right? Knowing that I don't have to do it all. I mean, one of the things Jesus said is, listen, my yoke is easy, my burden's light.

• 52:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, man.

• 52:40Josh Axe?

  And that's like, whoa. I mean, and honestly, for someone like me and you guys, who are achievers, we want to change the world, we want to run to win the race. There's also an element of, yeah, but, you know, part of the race was already won in what Jesus did on the cross in the ultimate race. And so, all that being said, there's a level of like, you know, this is true in sports, it's true in academics, it's true across the board. You want a level of understanding, something's really important. But also, if you believe that everything's relying on you, there's an element of anxiety that actually starts to, there's this bell curve of performance. There's actually a bell curve on this, is you want to be very focused, and know this, but also if you feel like it's all on you, your performance declines.

• 53:22Speaker 00

  Yeah, there was a Harvard, I think it was out of Harvard, they substantiated what Dr. Axe just said, that people that had a regular faith practice, and community is part of that, but also like community with other people, but community that you have with God, 33% decreased risk of all cause mortality over a 16 year period, I think it was. Decreased hyacinth, so you see reactive protein again, the inflammation marker. People don't realize that. But yeah, I love that way you said it, mind, body, God. And it, but it has to be beyond like this rote list of things that you do, like going to church by itself doesn't do the thing, right? It has to be a relationship, it has to be meaningful, not just checking the boxes. So, and Dr. Lisa Miller from Columbia, she,

• 54:07Speaker 00

  they substantiate this as well, like changes in the brain for people to have a faith practice, we have greater resilience on average, right? We, we know, yes, the small, like, the things in our world matter, but we have perspective on the ultimate things that matter.

• 54:21Speaker 02

  If you start going down lists of virtues, like the important ones that are spoken throughout the Bible, and then you, you start to look at it. So I started to look at it from different points of view. So I sat and read the entire New Testament. And I thought to myself, okay, I gained a lot here, but it's just, it kind of just revolves around love. And I, so it was embedded in my head. Then I started to look deeper, and this is what I want to tell people. You know, when you watch your favorite movie 20 some odd times, you always find something new in there that you didn't see.

• 54:49Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 54:50Speaker 02

  Well, you just brought up the yoke and the burden, and I read that 50 times and never knew what it meant till like a month ago. And then I got the, the real interpretation of what that actually means. It's saying, you know, here's, here's my laws, but they're gonna be very easy for you to follow if you love me and you follow me. And I grasped and understood. So then I've been able to grasp and interpret these virtues. Well, look at them. First is faith, hope, and love, right? So these are key integrative practices in our life that are gonna bring the most joy and happiness and peace. But then I, I got into the knowledge and wisdom, but then it's endurance, perseverance, temperance. So how do we relate these to everyday life? Well, you need to have fortitude and, and the ability to overcome.

• 55:31Speaker 02

  Temperance, you need to have some self-control, overindulgence in eating, and then whatever else bad practices you have, drugs, alcohol, whatever, I don't know, whatever it is, but you need temperance to overcome that. You need to have perseverance. I mean, I've had to have some severe perseverance for mistakes I've made, but that goes in general for everything. That can be the smallest thing of the day you gotta overcome. Just something small. I mean, just on the way here, I was ironing my clothes in a hotel room, I guess spilled water all over them, and started to get angry and then thought, man, just get the blow dryer out and blow them, you'll be fine, they'll wait.

• 56:02Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 56:02Speaker 02

  You know, but these concepts in the Bible that are misinterpreted, misconstrued, misread, are the handbook to life. If you just read them and understand them, there's an answer to everything in there.

• 56:16Speaker 00

  Yeah. And that's showing up on a cellular level, and science is substantiating that now, that we have 30 plus trillion cells, and they're all eavesdropping on how we talk about ourselves and other people. And there's a resonance there, right? I mean, their cells feel unsafe, and both physiological, physical things, like foods that don't love us back, environmental toxins, that makes our cells feel unsafe. But our disconnection from God also makes our cells feel unsafe, which is why studies are now showing why people that have a deep, rich faith life tend to live longer. Uh, well, look, we can't control everything. So we're not saying that if you have a faith, you're gonna like, everything's gonna be good. But it's just a component to how lit, how on a cellular level, we're meant to live.

• 56:56Speaker 02

  Yes, and that's the thing. I, I'm also not saying, oh, I'm perfect, and I wake up every day full of joy and happiness and everything. But I will say this, when I take the time to pray, and I sit back and think about how many blessings I have as opposed to the things that I'm whining and complaining about, then I come to this quick recollection of, hey, man, like, you need to just chill. And one of the things in the Bible, that it'll say pray constantly, and I used to think in my head, man, I'm not sitting here and praying 24 hours a day, but what it did bring out in me is little moments where I feel alone, or something's bothering me, and I just say in my head or say a prayer, and I talk, I never feel alone anymore in any aspect of my life. And I found myself talking to God more than I even talked to my wife throughout the day.

• 57:40Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 57:41Speaker 02

  And it's, it's actually quite beautiful because you don't even realize it. When, you know, when you talk to somebody like, we're talking here, I, I mean, I don't know, we've been going an hour, it feels like five minutes. But when you're in that, you don't even realize it. When I talk to God, it's, and I look, and sometimes I'll look, and I'll be like, man, there's 20, 30 minutes, but I better get rolling here, you know? And it's like, you don't even realize it because it's so valuable, but that time is spent so well, and it impacts everything you do. Then it helps you cellularly, then it helps you focus. So I guess my point is saying, no, you're not, there's no such things as rainbows and unicorn 24 hours a day. But it's gonna enhance your quality of life, not only for you, but the people that are around you.

• 58:20Speaker 00

  Yeah, absolutely. It's without a doubt, and it's, people forget it sometimes. They were looking for the next biohacker, you said, like the next peptide. Sometimes it's like, maybe just get your relationship with God, right?

• 58:31Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 58:31Speaker 00

  Your relationship with the present moment, right? That's really important.

• 58:35Speaker 02

  That's why I say foundationally, we set that. And once we have the foundation, then we can move forward. So, okay, I want to go over a few different things that are going on right now with you guys. I would like to get into some, some peptide related discussion. But I want to go a little bit deeper. All everybody wants to talk about is GLP-1s, and people, when they say peptides, that's all they think. Literally, and it bothers me because I've spent 15 years, when I first found them, studying them. Do you guys have any feeling on our future here with where we're gonna go? Because I look at peptides, and I'm, I'm showing people, look, there's something for

• 59:14Speaker 02

  ejection fraction here with SS31 for your heart. We got mitochondrial, MOC, Solank and CMAX are helping with the stress and anxiety. Do you see a future here? Or do you see, because I am in the trenches, I see people that are trying to take advantage of this, sell them everywhere, compounding pharmacies that don't know how to compound anything that are just popping up. Do you see this broad spectrum of people shilling and taking advantage of the system? Or do you see alternative medicines and therapies?

• 59:43Josh Axe?

  Will's had him on before. I had Brigham Buehler on my show, and he, he's really a peptide expert. I mean, he went a few weeks ago, three weeks ago, actually, we had to change the podcast date because he was scheduled to come on my show, and then he had to go to Washington DC to meet with Robert F. Kennedy Jr. and testify in front of the Senate. And so he was just on, and you know, he thinks that it's gonna keep getting passed through. He said that one of the problems is a lot of these senators, they, they didn't They just didn't know the science. And so, I mean, it's so, it's so interesting. You, you wouldn't think this would happen with professionals. But some of the things he was getting around is rather than actually reading some of the documents, one of them just had AI interpret it for them. And then they shared something and they said, what you're talking about, that's like an Olympic, a drug that was banned in the Olympics, whatever. It's not even a peptide.

• 1:00:28Josh Axe?

  I mean, it is just so, so awful.

• 1:00:31Speaker 00

  For the whole world to see.

• 1:00:32Josh Axe?

  Yes. And so, all that being said, I think there, I think we're going to continue to see them pass through, become legalized. Cause, cause listen, there, there's a choice. So I recently saw on Instagram, somebody post, this is a doctor who, you know, his name was discredited. He was found in the Epstein files. People used to listen to him and now many less are, because there's just so many character falls and issues there. But, but he came out and, and did this whole thing on GLP-1s are safe. Now, which before he didn't say that, but I found out he has a tie to, he owns a company that's about to sell that's printing GLP-1s. So, but all, but, but again, but all that being said, and then he was saying, well, you know, a lot of these peptides aren't, you know,

• 1:01:14Josh Axe?

  there's proven, there, there's no proven benefits. There's no double-blind, you know, placebo trial studies. Now, here's the thing I will say, and here's the thing I talked to, to bring him about, is that when I worked as that personal trainer for four years, one, one thing I noticed is bodybuilders are the most obsessive people I've ever met at tracking every, I mean, you know, they changed a half a pound of body fat. I'm going to wash, I remember there was a woman who was doing this, who I was friends with, and she would wash her chicken breasts to make sure there's no salt on them. Like, so, so to my point is they are absolutely meticulous. And BPC157, an example, you think for the past 20 years, bodybuilders haven't been using that and actually knowing, oh, I, I injured my shoulder,

• 1:01:57Josh Axe?

  doing shoulder press, using it and, and knowing what works and doesn't work. So the reality is maybe there's no double-blind placebo trials or not many, but there is so much anecdotal evidence for numerous peptides. And the reality is they do work. I've noticed it physically. Will's, Will's noticed it physically. We've got, you know, so many people that have used it. And so, by the way, on, on his thread, when this doctor posted this, basically there were hundreds of comments of people saying, actually it fixed my shoulder. And like, I mean, that was pretty much all of the comments.

• 1:02:29Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:02:29Josh Axe?

  So all that being said, I think that it's just a matter of time because now, now the government needs to make a decision because if you don't make it white market, if you don't make it to where, hey, you can go to your doctor and they can prescribe it, or as long as people can get it, they're going to be happy. They'll go through some of the, the channels to get it. But if you make it to where even functional medicine practitioners can't prescribe them and recommend them, people are just going to go to the gray and black market. And then who knows what they're going to get because there's a lot of stuff that's tainted out there. In fact, read one story where BPC157 was tainted with testosterone.

• 1:03:01Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:03:01Josh Axe?

  This guy lost his license. And this happens all the time. So the reality is you want to make sure you're buying from a United States compounding pharmacy when you're getting.

• 1:03:08Speaker 00

  They had transparency and purity. Yeah. What they did is just shoved it under the ground. I mean, it's just, yeah. The Biden administration went in 2023, when they just basically, they grew the market even more under this sort of shady gray area research only model. So yeah, hopefully there is, it's, we can bring it to the light and oxygen can be infused into the market. And, you know, I think the truth is oftentimes somewhere in the middle. I think the one side that on that, it's also with the natural health world. It's just kind of controversial for us to even have this position. Cause some people are like, you, this is like scary. We shouldn't be doing peptides at all, like the super crunchy wellness purist zealot that we love. I mean, they're our friends too.

• 1:03:49Speaker 00

  But they, they're very anti-peptides. And then you have the other side that's like peptides or the, you know.

• 1:03:55Josh Axe?

  It reminds me of the conversation around like, you can eat butter and tallow all day, every day, and there's no issues. And it's like, no, that's not true.

• 1:04:02Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:04:02Josh Axe?

  That's not true.

• 1:04:03Speaker 00

  Yes, exactly. So yeah, of course there's caveats. Of course not. Everybody should be doing all the peptides. But the truth's somewhere in the middle, like the dose, the person, the purity, all of these things matter.

• 1:04:14Speaker 02

  These people kill me and I'll tell you why. This extremism that goes so far.

• 1:04:21Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:04:22Speaker 02

  And I always tell people, I'm not going to say the exact verbiage because there's some cursing in there, but I always tell people, look, I'm not your dad. Do whatever you want. If you want to take all the vaccines in the world, have at it. Don't tell people that they have to do something. Same with peptides. Man, if you don't like them, stick to your conventional medicine or whatever it is that you do. Do whatever you want. Why are you so angry and so worried about what everybody else is doing, looking for alternatives? Nobody's telling you, you have to do anything. But I will say this, and I want you guys' thoughts on this. So I always call conventional medicine, the real non-conventional, because I, I look at something that is taken naturally and generally altered,

• 1:05:01Speaker 02

  methylated, whatever you want to say. And so that's why I call it non-conventional. I would say conventional medicine is more along the lines of natural herbs, traditional Chinese medicine.

• 1:05:11Josh Axe?

  It should be primary care for, it should be the primary for sure.

• 1:05:14Speaker 02

  Yeah. That's what I was curious, what you guys' thoughts were on the negativity, the views that people carry. And why do you feel, because for me, when I see all that negativity, you know what I see? Poor health. That's the first thing I see.

• 1:05:31Josh Axe?

  Yeah. I, I think, I think the thing that I have, I have a hard time with is, is that, I, I'll give you this with the cancer industry as an example. There is no doubt in certain clinics in, you know, Europe, there's a few in the United States, but you know, that cancer treatments is being, being done much better than what the conventional system is doing. But what the people on the conventional side will say, I'll give you an example of this, like I, I've worked with a, I, I've, I work with a cancer patient probably every week. Okay. And it's, it's cancer support. And what we'll do is, is I'll try and lay out what is the ideal integrative treatment. Whether they decide to go and do chemo radiation or not, I'll go through and we do something called an RG, RGCC blood test.

• 1:06:12Josh Axe?

  It's a Greek test and it'll tell you, does sulforane work? Does high dose vitamin C? Does liposomal tumor act? Does hyperthermia? You know, what are the things that move the needle the most for this type of cancer? And it's a great test. And I think really effective. And so we'll, I'll take that and I'll lay out a protocol of, you know, here's your ideal diet of what you should eat for every meal. Here's the exact supplements. Hey, let's do hyperthermia because, you know, here, here, and here. And then maybe you're going to do radiation. Maybe you can skip the chemo because in like colon cancer, it's typically used as what they call a radiosensitizer to just make the radiation more sensitive. But chemo is even more damaging on the body and it's throughout the body where radiation is more localized.

• 1:06:53Josh Axe?

  So let's not do the, you know, ideally they'd be better off not doing that, doing the lotus dose of radiation, but they want to do something. Okay. You can do that conventional, but let's do all of the natural therapies we can. And what a lot of the oncologists will say, now, by the way, some, some of them, they're becoming more and more progressive of saying, hey, I think that'd be a good idea to do this. But most of them will not move off what the current treatments are because those have been established for the last 60 years. That's what they get paid for, but it's not the best for the patient. So, so I get frustrated that like, listen, there is a better model out there. Let's work together to find out what it is.

• 1:07:27Speaker 00

  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think, I think for most of, not just cancer, but all chronic disease, it should be both and not either or. Like what's the most effective option that causes the least amount of side effects? And you're right, this both sides. Cause then you'll have the health, like the health pure side with cancer specifically. It's like, I'll never do chemo, never do radiation. What's like, well, what's the context of it? What does the data show? Maybe it is both and. So there's so many examples of that. I think people that are again, the question was like, people that are still like against people in functional medicine.

• 1:07:56Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:57Speaker 00

  They're on the wrong side of history. I mean, the mall mainstream institutions, like the Cleveland Clinic, don't open up multimillion dollar functional medicine centers because it's woo-woo and quackery. Because the data speaks for itself. So people are still like, it's us versus them. Where have you been? I mean, I've been doing this for 16 years. This is not radical. Getting people healthy should not be offensive. If it is, look at your heart.

• 1:08:19Josh Axe?

  And I can tell you, 20 years ago, 99% of doctors, I'm serious about this, would say you cannot reverse type 2 diabetes.

• 1:08:27Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah. I could, I would get phone calls saying, I was going to kill people. How dare you?

• 1:08:32Josh Axe?

  Yeah. And they literally felt like it did not matter if you ate a Snickers.

• 1:08:36Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:08:36Josh Axe?

  Or an apple.

• 1:08:37Speaker 00

  Type 2 diabetes, not type 1.

• 1:08:39Josh Axe?

  Yeah. No, we're talking, we're both talking about type 2 here. And then now it's probably more like 50% of doctors do believe you can reverse it and 50 still don't, which is boggles my mind. But, but we, we have come so far in 20 years. So far.

• 1:08:53Speaker 00

  That's funny that you saw the same thing because it was type 2 diabetes. I'm like, wait, what? Out of all the things that's offending you? But now you're right. It's just like.

• 1:09:00Speaker 02

  Here's what's offensive to me. I was in the, I had a small incident and I was in the hospital for three and a half days in the, the cardiovascular area. All right. And I had to stay the night there all weekend and they bring me a menu. And this was the heart healthy menu. And I looked at my wife and I said, Does that say chicken F and Parmesan and margarine and dinner roll? And I took a picture of it. I have it on my phone. I could show you. This is what they have in their heart. Healthy menu.

• 1:09:30Josh Axe?

  Margarine and dinner rolls.

• 1:09:31Speaker 02

  Chicken.

• 1:09:32Speaker 00

  Maybe sugar free Jell-O or pudding.

• 1:09:34Speaker 02

  I'm not even kidding you. Chicken parm and tortellini were on here.

• 1:09:38Josh Axe?

  I mean, if you took a fork or knife and just scraped everything off of the chicken, the only, well, I mean, you'd still get the hormones, but outside of that, you know, that's.

• 1:09:45Speaker 00

  I mean, this is why the United States spends more on any, more than any country, yet we have the shortest lifespan and the most chronic disease. I mean, all you have to do is look at how we're feeding people in the place that should be a place of healing.

• 1:09:56Speaker 02

  I know. Yeah. So my goal, when I talk to people, because everybody wants to live longer. I mean, that you see that everywhere, but they, they don't look at the quality. And I always tell people, we should be trying to add years to our life, or I mean, life to our year, you know, our, our years, you know, not years to our life. And people don't understand, well, we have this life stand, but yeah, but how are you living it? How do you feel? So I guess my question to you guys is if we're looking to enhance quality of life as we age, now cellular health, I think would be one of the obvious, right? So I, I think that that would be the number one thing to address, but let's look past cellular health. I look at markers like, you know, more obscure things too. I, I'd like to look at that too.

• 1:10:40Speaker 02

  Like I, NAD levels, I started to really study the past year and a half on the importance of, of that. And that's a whole nother topic on flooding people with IVs that we could get into, but I'm just looking at markers right now. What are some other things that as we age that we should kind of look at? Man, maybe we should address this. Maybe we should focus on this.

• 1:11:00Speaker 00

  Hmm. As far as longevity is concerned. Well, I think one of the hallmarks of aging that science recognizes that we talk about at length in the book is gut health. I mean, microbiome balance and the ripple effect of that. I mean, when you look at the ripple effect of inflammation and oxidative stress and stress of the vagal tone and the impact that it has. So it's a gateway. Gut health is such a gateway to so many other pathways, a cascade or ripple effect. So I do think that it's, should be a bigger conversation in the longevity space, right? People can have, you know, they'll be eating great foods. I see this all the time. We see this all the time. It's people that eat better than the average American, but they have really poor gut health.

• 1:11:43Speaker 00

  And that, that shows you, it's, yes, food is a big part of it, but it's not just about food. I mean, it's about our environment. It's about stress and trauma. It's a lot of different things that can impact microbiome health. So I think a deeper, more meaningful attention when needed to get the gut to a better place is profoundly important.

• 1:12:02Speaker 02

  I've noticed when I really started to address this, the sleep has been a lot better. Um, the feelings, I, I feel a lot more satiated, you know, and after I eat, I'm less hungry, honestly too. Which is, I'm kind of throwing it back with the training where I was like, man, but I, I can tell the health is better, right? And I started taking a spore based probiotic and that's another topic we could get into later. But there's a lot of different probiotics and no one knows what they're taking and they're throwing all these things at there. And that, well, I'm taking a probiotic or I'm taking an enzyme and I, and I say, well, do you know what's in it? Do you know what it's doing? Cause I used to be one of those people too. So what about you? What, what do you think, Josh, on some other things about longevity that you would recommend?

• 1:12:46Josh Axe?

  I think exercise is incredibly important, you know, I, I met with a patient yesterday and, um, and, and this is the group of people I think have the hardest time with it. It's probably women in their 50s and 60s and 70s. But I mean, I, I, the, the fastest way you can increase mitochondria is through weight training. I mean, it's not even close. I mean, because you have so much mitochondria in your muscle.

• 1:13:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:13:13Josh Axe?

  You know, outside of your brain and heart, your muscle, I mean, that's where you're the most mitochondrial dense. And so, yeah, I mean, anytime you can add on muscle mass, and then of course, what that does to your metabolic health is incredible. So I think for longevity, being able, but now, now here's the thing I want to say, it's just, when I was taught to work out when I was younger, it was all about just, um, moving to put on muscle, but also now I've added the second part of don't hurt yourself. I mean, you know, I mean, I had a back injury that was terrible and part of the reason that led me to this infection was, well, okay, I injured my back doing CrossFit, which was really unwise. It's like, hey, let's do Olympic lifts for time. The more I think about the more, what was I thinking?

• 1:13:56Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:13:56Josh Axe?

  What a terrible idea.

• 1:13:58Speaker 02

  Whole episode on its own.

• 1:14:00Josh Axe?

  Anyways.

• 1:14:01Speaker 00

  Pick up heavy things with good form. Yeah. That's, that's the thing.

• 1:14:05Josh Axe?

  So, so now when I exercise, I mean, I, I was a personal trainer and I know a lot about health and fitness, but I still have a personal trainer. I see at least once a week, just to watch me do things to make sure I'm doing them properly. And, and I found that to be incredibly helpful. So yeah, I, I think for most people, uh, weight training and then just walking.

• 1:14:24Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:14:24Josh Axe?

  Weight training and walking.

• 1:14:25Speaker 00

  Yeah. Zone two, there's a lot of great exercise, uh, research run in zone two.

• 1:14:29Josh Axe?

  Yeah. So I think doing those two things together are, are, are massive for longevity and just being like, to your point, not just living a long time, but being active, like I want to be active with my grandkids in my eighties and beyond that. So I think that's, you know, I've, I'm blessed. I've got, my mom, I think is 74 now. My dad's 76. And I just went with them two weeks ago. We were, uh, at a lake house in Tennessee and my mom water skied, slalomed back and forth, crushed it. My dad went trick. Now people don't do this anymore. Everybody switched to wakeboarding, but there used to be something called trick skiing.

• 1:14:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:15:00Josh Axe?

  So he, he literally had the, the rope around his foot and was doing like three 60s at 76. Yeah. Yeah. So my, they're both incredibly healthy and a big part of it is they've decided every morning when they wake up, they go for about a 45 minute walk. My dad still lifts weights. My mom sometime, like she's off her on, I'm trying to, you know, she, she's more like, she'll do one or two days a week.

• 1:15:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:15:21Josh Axe?

  Um, but, but that's part of the reason why they're still so active and healthy in their, in their seventies.

• 1:15:26Speaker 00

  Yeah. And that's, I think a good point here is that people maybe that are listening to this or watching to, watching this in their twenties, thirties, it may even forties, they're not thinking about longevity, but what you are going through in your seventies, like how you are in seventies begins in your twenties, like you are investing in your rest of your life now.

• 1:15:48Josh Axe?

  Anyone over 40 will absolutely agree with me on this. That time you sprained your ankle in high school, playing soccer or basketball. You'll feel it in your forties. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? I mean, those, that because that's the area where the cartilage, the tendons, the ligaments were inflamed or partially torn that were never fully repaired and you'll, you'll feel that. So doing everything, and this is why also honestly, if I, if I have any minor injury now, I take peptides. I'll do stem cell, do PRP, I'll do shock weight. I mean, I'll do whatever therapy I can because I know I'm going to do something right now to prevent me feeling this in 10 years.

• 1:16:22Speaker 02

  Yes. I want to make a couple of points on some things you guys said. So the first one, my wife, and I've had this conversation with her, I don't know how many times she comes to me like three days ago. And I tried to be patient because I've already explained this to her. She's like 98 pounds and she's, we talk about strength training. I want to be toned, but I don't want to gain too much size. And I said, babe, listen to me. If you knew what it takes to hold two pounds of lean muscle in a year, I said, you'd need to double your caloric intake. Your weights would have to go bigger than mine right now for you to gain any weight. And I say this for women that are scared that they're going to get big.

• 1:16:57Speaker 00

  Bulky.

• 1:16:57Speaker 02

  If you understand what it would take for you to get big, for the, just the food consumption alone. And I'm not just talking protein. I'm talking calories that you're going to have to take in to allow you to grow, especially as you age, just, and the supplements or performance enhancers you're going to have to take too, because especially as you get older, it's harder to put muscle mass on.

• 1:17:19Josh Axe?

  Well, let me say this. So any women, first off, women shouldn't be concerned about that at all.

• 1:17:22Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:17:23Josh Axe?

  But even if they are, they're probably doing the right exit, wrong exercises. I mean, if you're doing a lot of biceps and triceps, which you really don't need to do. You know, maybe, maybe that's your arms you're most concerned about, but most women should be doing their butt.

• 1:17:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:17:35Josh Axe?

  Their hamstring, so posterior chain or general legs, and then shoulders.

• 1:17:41Speaker 00

  Yeah. Compound movements.

• 1:17:42Josh Axe?

  And core with compound movements. Yeah. And if you do those right exercises, you're, you're only going to have more of a V look. Like you're not going to end up looking big, no matter what.

• 1:17:52Speaker 02

  It's just not going to happen. And like you said, training the butt. And then, you know, women carry back here, you know, they carry a little bit of extra back here, even when they're thin. You can do like high, high reps and low weights to get toned, you know, I, I got torn up. I went on this podcast because I really, I started to do a lot more focus on women that are in menopause and trying to help and understand and comprehend as my wife started to go through things. And then I realized I am not compassionate and understanding what women are going through at this age. So I really dug in here and I got on a big podcast that was addressing women in menopause. And I was telling them, you have to lift smarter, not harder as you age, just like you said, the injuries.

• 1:18:33Speaker 02

  And I had this woman telling me, oh, you don't lift in baby weights and you're not going to gain anything. And I said, well, first of all, I didn't say lifting baby weights. And second of all, if you're injured every other week, you're not making any progress. So you got to prioritize the rest, like we said, but lifting smart, we're not getting younger. Injuries accumulate and it's easier to get hurt as you get older. You guys know that, especially after we've had injuries, like you said. So I, I implore people, don't go into the gym, A, worried about anybody saying anything about how much you lift. That makes no difference whatsoever. You're not getting paid. And even if you were, sacrifice it because you don't want to get injured. And two, train for your health. That's it. You know what I mean? Train for your health.

• 1:19:15Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:15Speaker 02

  When I feel like I looked my best, ate abs and just, just ripped to the gills, 4% body fat, I felt my worst. I was the most miserable I've ever been. You can look phenomenal and I mean phenomenal with no drugs, no steroids, no, no any performance enhancements by just eating right, training good, sleeping good. That's it. That's it. So I just wanted to make that point. Now, I want to do a little bit of, um, diet questions with you guys especially, because this has been, it's getting so polarizing now, the angry diet advice that I see where people just get so pissed off. If you don't follow keto seven days a week, or you don't follow carnivore, if you hate vegans or what, I mean, it's just, it's like everything that people say.

• 1:19:59Speaker 02

  Here's where I'm at. I've been studying nutrition since I was 11 years old and I've been through, we talked about this, the fear of fats and all these misguided information. My care is metabolic flexibility, which depends thoroughly on your age, your activity level, conditions that you might have.

• 1:20:16Speaker 02

  I am one of those that find keto to be a tool, carnivore to be a tool, vegan to be a tool, but not a lifestyle. A lifestyle is being flexible metabolically and being metabolically flexible means you might have a high carb day, one day. It's good carbs, it's healthy carbs. You might have a really high protein day. I try to prioritize fats, but I don't go crazy. I want to know you guys' views on these hardcore seven day a week keto, seven day a week vegan, like these hardcore extreme diets, because I find the restriction actually causes you more problems down the road. But I want to know from you guys.

• 1:20:50Josh Axe?

  Hey, have you seen the SNL skit where it was like a Maha SNL skit and where, you guys gotta watch this. It is hilarious. And so they have this, Jordan Rubin texted to me like right when it came out and I watched it, but there's, there's somebody laying in a hospital bed and they're like laying down just like asleep and they said, you know, they say something to the, to the like of, um, oh, he's a vegan. He goes, oh, pull the plug, you know. But so here, here's my opinion on this. I think, you know, and Will likes to use this term and it's a great term. It's bio-individuality. I mean, it's, it's, it's a term that really correlates with personalized medicine. And, you know, I, I think some people need to be on a keto diet. Maybe it's five, maybe

• 1:21:34Josh Axe?

  it's 3% of people. I don't know. I don't know the exact number. Like I had a cousin who was diagnosed with glioblastoma. And the, the literature is incredibly strong in the favor of following a ketogenic diet for, for life, you know, so, so there's an example of that. But I think, I don't think most people should be following a ketogenic diet. I don't think most people should be following a carnivore diet. I don't think most people should be following a vegan diet. I think we're omnivores. I think there's, you know, in the Bible, you see we ate plants and then in Genesis 93 or 63, uh, is, you know, God says, hey, you can eat the things that creep and crawl in the ground. And then we have the food laws with Moses. And then, you know, and then later on, we see Paul in first, to the Corinthians church saying, whether you eat, drink, or whatever you do, do

• 1:22:18Josh Axe?

  all for the glory of God. So there's a sort of progression in the Bible too of in terms of like, what we see dietarily. But overall, I think everybody is an individual. I'll share this. I don't do well with high fat. I don't even do well with probably high moderate. I do okay with moderate to low moderate. Um, I do well with something like a tablespoon of olive oil, tablespoon of coconut oil, you know, filet mignon, or whatever it is, you know, uh, that's good fats in small to moderate amounts. I do good with. Part of the reason is, is that like this is from Chinese medicine. When I deal with stress, I deal with it in my liver. And so my liver is the most stressed organ I have because the emotions I feel with, I tend to deal with are like frustration. That's all liver. So different organs have to do with different macronutrients.

• 1:23:03Josh Axe?

  I mean, the liver deals with almost everything, but I mean, it's definitely dealing with a lot of fat in the gallbladder. Whereas, you know, your stomach is probably having to do a little bit more with hydrochloric acid and breaking down certain things like protein. So a lot of has to do with, again, but my whole point here is it all comes down to the individual, what your macronutrients should be.

• 1:23:21Speaker 00

  Yeah. And even within these camps, there's so many different ways to do it, right? I mean, there's so much ways to do the ketogenic diet. Is it, are you eating just, you know, anything? Because it's a hashtag keto and just it's low carb. Like you were talking about the bodybuilders, the downing alcohol, like cocaine is keto.

• 1:23:41Josh Axe?

  It doesn't make it healthy.

• 1:23:42Speaker 00

  So it's like, are you doing it in a nutrient dense way? Or are you doing it in a inflammatory way? Just because it's high fat, low carb. So I just think that context around these conversations matter, the context of how you're doing it. And then who, who are we, who are we talking about? And then like you said, is it a tool or is it a lifestyle? Is it used for a period of time? And what served you in this season of your life? You may not always need to do. Especially if you're building, improving metabolic flexibility, lowering inflammation, improving gut health. Yeah, maybe like diversity, variety, flexibility is the goal for most people.

• 1:24:15Speaker 02

  I get these people, they get so angry and they get so mad if you don't follow their diet. I'm like, brother, do whatever you want. This is one size fits none. I tried to do low carb and I train. So I do 90 some minutes of cardio a day. And then I lift another hour or two. I try to do low carb and I'm a mess. And, and part of the problem is I'll start to have heart palpitations because I can't hold electrolytes because even when I take them in, my body without the carbs is like draining them out. And I kept, why can't I absorb? Because I'm eating like next to no carbs. You know, it doesn't work for everybody. I'm, I'm certainly not anti-carb. Now, I don't like high carbs. And I come to find out that I eat high fat and I just thrive on it. I starve myself.

• 1:24:58Speaker 00

  And I'd be interested to see like, if you were, maybe you've done this because you're in the space, like measuring your ketones, you, because of your metabolic flexibility, you may have be in a sort of low to moderate carb and still be producing small amounts of ketones.

• 1:25:11Speaker 02

  Yes, I am. Absolutely. And that's, and that's what, like what you said, knowing your body. I mean, I didn't eat fats for 15 years, man. And I was a mess. And then when I started doing it, it's like, you know.

• 1:25:22Josh Axe?

  Well, I can tell you this clinically. I mean, every, everybody that, for the most part that I, that I personally work with, I mean, I'm very much, I don't think, when I personally work with somebody, almost every time their diet's different. I mean, it's very different. Or at the very least, somebody is put in a very specific category that's typically proven to help that, that sort of diet. So Hashimoto's thyroiditis, that diet is completely different or might be very different than somebody with cancer, irritable bowel disease, cardiovascular, you know, disease. I mean, a lot of times it's very different foods. Cause the way that I like to put together eating plans is not just, hey, this is healthy for you. It's no, what is the single best food for you? So if somebody has heart disease, what is the single best fruit for somebody with heart disease? It's probably

• 1:26:06Josh Axe?

  going to be, I mean, I could argue pomegranates because of mitochondrial health for that. It could, it could be apples, it could be blueberries, but, but I'm going to put in there, these are the fruits that are best for this very specific condition. These are the proteins, these are the, you know, the, the other forms of carbohydrates are the vegetables. So that's the way that I like to build out eating plans. I know Will, Dr. Will does it very similarly as well.

• 1:26:29Speaker 00

  And what we're able to do with our work with at the Health Institute is create that bio individuality of knowing the nuance and context of, and books are great. Like we, we wrote this book, we're really proud of it. And even there, there's multi, based on their, what organs aging faster, they have a different prescription. There's so much bio-individuality, but that's, there's limitations with a book, right? We could, yes, we put multiple tracks and they're based on their score. There's a assessment to see what organs aging faster that we adapted from questions we ask patients. But the whole point, my, what I'm trying to say is on a clinical level, we can get a lot more granular and like their clinical case is their book, their own personal book. Instead of this dogma where you're saying these tribes, it's like, okay, what's, what loves my

• 1:27:11Speaker 00

  body back in this season of my life? Uh, and not compare yourself to other people, which, you know, people in our space, uh, we probably stress people out sometimes too. And so it's important for us to be careful with our words and being mindful of like, yes, all this is good education, but just because you hear about it on a podcast or read it in a book, doesn't mean that you have to do all the things.

• 1:27:31Speaker 02

  I'm trying to work on that myself. And I've been stressing to people like, look, there's some people that I love. I call them like really close friends, but I don't agree with some of this stuff, like scaring people. If you guys ever look in the comments, see, I, I look in the comments, not to see what somebody says about me. It's like, what's going on? Like what's, what's going on? It's always confusion. People going, well, what can I even do? What can I even eat? We're creating a bigger problem. We're literally creating stress when we do that, you know?

• 1:27:55Speaker 00

  And a part of it is messaging. You're absolutely, that's a big part of it is, and, but the other part of it is we need, I, my hope is, is that these longer form conversations can provide nuance and context and people should have discernment. And I think that's part of the problem too, is as a consumer, we just are so bred and trained to like be spoon fed and be told what to do. That's not, like a podcast is not the same as a doctor's visit. Like just, you have to understand that and be like, okay, to have discernment on what to do and what not to do.

• 1:28:24Speaker 02

  Yes. You have to, like, everything in life's a little bit of trial and error, right? Cause we just don't know. I can sit here and you guys can do the same. And what we've seen work, there's always going to be an outlier. There's always going to be somebody that's going to leave a comment or something. Well, this didn't work for me. Then we got to be aware of that. And that's why we have to like, highlight that everybody's different. It's one size fits none technically. But, but saying that, what I want to talk about is there are certain foods or certain things that are just going to cause problems, right? So I want to talk about seed oils now, because all three of us have a passion about it. I just, I literally like last week finalized and signed a contract

• 1:29:07Speaker 02

  with the, the seed oil free alliance, which they do seed oil certifications now to, to endorse. This is seed oil free, like the hardcore testing. So I mean, it's a, that, to me, I always say, if somebody says they don't care about money, run, because that's all they care about. This is more of a passion project for me, um, because of how I feel. And I, I feel that this is something that Really getting abused on both sides, really, because people are lying. They're just flat ass lying and whether it's that's what they're being fed or they know what they're doing about how dangerous they are. And then there's people that go way overboard that just act like they will murder you at the same token. Now, I obviously find a lot of wrong there.

• 1:29:50Speaker 02

  I wouldn't have joined this alliance, but I do wanna, I want you guys to shed light factually down the middle on what you've seen, what you've encountered and what's true and what's false.

• 1:29:59Josh Axe?

  I mean, I guess I can start here. So, you know, my, my, my opinion is this, I think that, gosh, this is gonna sound terrible. I, you know, some of the, I think there are gonna be people on both sides that disagree with me. I, I think it really does come down to, and I'm looking at this from a Chinese medicine perspective. I think for some people that sometimes certain types of saturated fats are gonna be worse for them than seed oils and vice versa. Like in Chinese medicine, when you have something that's solid at room temperature in that fat, it tends to move slower through the body. That's the belief and thought. So I think certain people with, uh, that are prone to cardiovascular disease, I mean, that's the main thing I'm talking about when I'm saying this.

• 1:30:40Josh Axe?

  I think that over consuming butter, over consuming animal fats is not ideal. Okay. And I think that might be just as bad for them or worse than certain times seed oils. Now, I also wanna say this, I do think that, you know, when you have the people that are living and dying by the double blind placebo studies, they're just missing a lot. Because even when you're looking at a meta-analysis, it's brought together numerous studies and you're comparing over time. Cause what they're doing, by the way, if you just looked at it that way, seed oils are gonna outperform, I mean, just being, when you just look at the studies, they're probably outperforming saturated fats. But one of the things that's happening is a lot of the studies are counting olive oil with the other, with seed oils.

• 1:31:22Josh Axe?

  The other thing is those people that tend to do olive oil or do seed oils, they tend to be historically, they've been a lot more physically active. Um, I think that's throwing off studies. And I also think when they're talking about the saturated fats, are they talking about the saturated fat from conventional meat? Yeah. That you're, that they're making it, I don't know, Burger King and McDonald's and all these fast food restaurants.

• 1:31:45Speaker 00

  And most of these studies too are epidemiological as well. So it's like causation and correlation are different too. It's like the people that tend to, anyway, sorry for interrupting.

• 1:31:53Josh Axe?

  No, no, no, no, but that is a massive point and you're a hundred percent right there. So the reality is, it's like, nobody knows. Yeah. Like, nobody knows for certain. Here's the thing, here's where I just try and cut, cut to things. Just do olive oil all the time. I absolutely guarantee you.

• 1:32:10Speaker 00

  It's like the United Nations of fats. I feel like most people will get behind it. Like, you know what I mean? There's tribes for everything, but olive oil is like this utopian kumbaya moment where whether you're vegan or maybe, do carnivore people hate olive oil?

• 1:32:23Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 1:32:23Speaker 00

  What do they think?

• 1:32:24Speaker 02

  I can't keep up there, man.

• 1:32:26Josh Axe?

  I will say this, they don't probably do much of it, but I don't think they hate it. I'll actually say this, generally, I recommend fruit oils and that's what they are. I mean, if you think about it, avocado is a fruit, olives are a fruit. Now, people would push back on this one, but I like coconut oil too. I mean, in terms of you're comparing it to every other saturated fat.

• 1:32:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:32:43Josh Axe?

  It's the one that impacts cardiovascular.

• 1:32:45Speaker 00

  Because of the medium chain.

• 1:32:47Josh Axe?

  The, the least, but yeah, extra virgin olive oil absolutely is by far the healthiest oil most people can consume.

• 1:32:54Speaker 00

  And the bitter, the better when it comes to the polyphenol, like the xenohormetic, like the stress that that sweet plant went through, like living in this arid desert under the heat with insects, like that, the cells of that plant is gets transferred to us. I agree with you.

• 1:33:08Josh Axe?

  And to your point, I think if somebody has a liver and gallbladder that are just working really well, I, I, I think they can tolerate and do a good amount of butter and tallow and just do fine with it.

• 1:33:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:33:17Josh Axe?

  Absolutely. You know, one thing that was interesting is, this is something actually Gabrielle Lyons brought up, and I don't know, I understand her philosophy on it, and I think she's probably correct, but she said, she thinks that you can do a higher fat diet as long as you're and not have risk of cardiovascular disease, or I'm summarizing part of what she was saying, and do things like butter and tallow as long as the caloric intake stays low or below a certain level. But if you're doing a lot of saturated fat from animals and a lot of carbs and a lot of, you know, and you're in a high caloric intake, that's where the risk, you know, really tips off and goes up dramatically at increasing your risk of a cardiovascular event.

• 1:33:57Speaker 02

  I agree with that.

• 1:33:58Speaker 00

  And the, the science, the literature talks about this mixed meal phenomenon too, where it's like, is it, was it the, back to the epidemiological side of it, is it the saturated fat or is it the American meat, like the bun and the burger and the fries? And then we blame the saturated fat?

• 1:34:13Josh Axe?

  Yes.

• 1:34:13Speaker 00

  Whereas like this compounded effect of high carb plus high fat, yeah, that's like can be an inflammation bomb for sure.

• 1:34:20Speaker 02

  Well, I can, here, I can tell you this through blood markers on myself and I can, and I can show you this on how they've changed since I started eating like higher fat, but calories are still on the lower end. So here's how I base my diet. It's kinda like a forty, forty, twenty. So it's like forty percent fats, sometimes like forty-two, forty-three, and then protein and then carbs. And I have monitored, I do blood panels every three to four months generally now at this point, because knowing what I found out about some plaque in my arteries and LP little A. And my LP little A started at three thirty, it's gone down into the nineties, which I told was impossible. Um, and I do.

• 1:34:58Josh Axe?

  It was in what?

• 1:34:59Speaker 02

  It, it was three thirty when I first found it. And now it's, it's normally between a hundred and ninety-five.

• 1:35:05Josh Axe?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:35:05Speaker 02

  Um, and pomegranate juice is one of the things that I do have daily, every day. Uh, that was brought to my attention that that could reverse plaque. I'm getting a clearly scan in the next two weeks too, so we're gonna get a real strong indication. So generally speaking, and I just started to implement chicken again finally after I don't know how many years of being like against it. So I do two days of salmon, avocado every single day, four whole eggs, three days a week, and then some animal fats, so eighty-five or ninety-three beef occasionally, eighties, but I do elk, bison, venison, mix them in. I'm doing about a hundred grams of fat a day, two hundred and twenty, two hundred and thirty protein and hopefully a hundred carbs.

• 1:35:45Speaker 02

  And all of my markers, aside from my LDL and my APOB went up slightly, um, everything else, particle size is down, liver down, everything that was high, down, they all came down. Um, granted, your LDL is gonna go up when you have that kinda diet. Grass-fed butter I have every day, but not mounds of it, and you know, I'm just cooking it now.

• 1:36:06Speaker 00

  The quality improved.

• 1:36:07Speaker 02

  Everything, but everything that I have is pasture raised, grass-fed, hundred percent, not grass finished. I mean, I am, dude, I travel with a scale, like I'm Mr. Way everything like you were saying, and everything is this pinpoint. My life is lived around regiment and precision. So I monitor everything and I know every single number in my head, I have a photographic memory. So I know what I see on myself, but I don't wanna say that for others because other people aren't some of the medications I'm on or don't train like I do or don't have the same kind of like background that I have, you know, from, from whatever I've inherited and some of that I believe in, some don't. But the point is, is everybody's different and you only know your own numbers. You can't monitor what everybody's doing.

• 1:36:51Speaker 02

  I, I was just talking to my wife about this, I said, how the hell do I know if somebody's at home doing exactly what they're telling me and eating exactly what they say? And like you guys said, how do I know what kind of beef that is? How do I know what else has been included in there? What kinda condiments they're using or whatever? I don't know. So some of these studies I take with a grain of salt, we need them, but I also, I care about being in the trenches and getting real world experience. Like, we, we talked about this earlier about peptides. Man, I, I wanna know what all my clients are doing, what all the people in the forums I'm at are doing and what their, their body response is.

• 1:37:23Speaker 00

  Real world data.

• 1:37:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, I want real world data to compare and contrast with the studies. And I can tell you, man, these people were sixty years old with this condition and had this so that I could get the outcome I wanted.

• 1:37:33Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:37:34Speaker 02

  You know? And that's like the devil's in the details. Same thing when you Google something. Be very careful when you get this AI response and you don't look at the source of where it's coming.

• 1:37:43Josh Axe?

  It's a really good point because anytime, and, and I, I use AI very, very often for creation.

• 1:37:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:37:50Josh Axe?

  And I have to wrestle it, like friends, I've been writing articles and having it pull certain things, but its view of peptides is very negative, its view of, I mean, it's very conventional and some are worse than others. I mean, Grok is probably one of the most friendly towards natural medicine. I mean, Google to me, and probably Google is the most hostile, probably. Gemini is one of the most hostile. Claude is.

• 1:38:16Josh Axe?

  Not great. I can get it to where I want. Chat GPT is a little bit more friendly too. But um, but yeah, generally a lot of these AI tools are very, they're just, what they're gonna do is, it's just like, they're just gonna go to WebMD and CDC and that World Health Organization. I mean, that's where they're gonna go to first. To pull out of there. So I have to go and tell it, I want you to go and pull more functionally, functional medicine minded, these journals. And I actually have to tell it what to do and act like a research assistant.

• 1:38:43Speaker 02

  It's, yeah, it's crazy. I just urge people when you do a search, look, because it's easy to, yeah, it's easy to just read it.

• 1:38:50Speaker 00

  Yeah. Back check it. Consider the source.

• 1:38:52Josh Axe?

  Hundred percent.

• 1:38:53Speaker 02

  Yeah. All right. So what I want to do now with you guys is talk about, like, if you were stranded on an island or whatever, one of those questions, but you could only have five foods that you had to live on. Cause you know, you ask somebody this and it's like, oh, I'd want pizza and ice cream. Like, brother, man, you wouldn't want to eat that every day. You know, only if you were stoned seven days a week. So what kind of foods would be your five? This is what I'm living on. This is what I'm never gonna get sick of.

• 1:39:22Speaker 00

  So this is off of nutrient density and survival or enjoyment?

• 1:39:26Speaker 02

  Either one.

• 1:39:26Speaker 00

  Okay. So this has to be well-rounded.

• 1:39:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:39:29Speaker 00

  You can go first if you want.

• 1:39:30Josh Axe?

  Okay. Yeah. I mean, let's say if I landed, pick one, it's salmon. I mean, that, that to me is probably gonna be number one on my list. Um, after that, probably coconut. I would have that. And this for myself, I, I could eat those things a lot. I would probably pick some type of fruit or carbohydrate. I, I would think it would be, uh, probably blueberries.

• 1:39:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:39:52Josh Axe?

  Um, and then I might do, I would either do olives or avocado. And then I might do like a sweet potato, something like that. Now, the only other thing I am thinking of is that maybe I would want another source of protein. And so maybe, you know, I'm trying to think of iron levels right now. I might have a little bit of a challenge with what I just shared. So I'd probably swap one of those things out and add in like a grass-fed burger, but that's what I would go with.

• 1:40:14Speaker 02

  Okay. Nice.

• 1:40:15Speaker 00

  Yeah, I would do a grass-fed burger for sure. I would do, guys, it's like, okay, so we're saying five, grass-fed burger. I would say salmon. It's funny. I, I, I'm not trying to cheat off of you.

• 1:40:25Josh Axe?

  That's all right. Great minds think alike.

• 1:40:28Speaker 00

  I would say salmon. I, maybe avocado. Did he say avocado?

• 1:40:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:40:34Speaker 00

  Did he say avocado?

• 1:40:34Josh Axe?

  Yeah, I said avocado or olives.

• 1:40:36Speaker 00

  Okay. I would say avocado.

• 1:40:37Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:38Speaker 00

  Um, I would say berries for, and then I would say pizza, like a good sourdough. Cause look, if I'm, I'm like, you know what?

• 1:40:48Josh Axe?

  I like that better. What I, I did sweet potato. That's so much better.

• 1:40:52Speaker 02

  If I could have mint chip ice cream every day forever, man, I would do.

• 1:40:55Speaker 00

  Is that your ice cream of choice?

• 1:40:57Speaker 02

  Oh, it is. It is. It is, man. I swear to you. I've always been since I was little. And but it's gotta be, I, I am like a connoisseur of mint chip ice cream and it's Baskin Robbins. Still to this day is my favorite.

• 1:41:08Speaker 00

  Yeah, but interesting.

• 1:41:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:41:09Speaker 00

  I need to check it out.

• 1:41:10Speaker 02

  I don't know why.

• 1:41:11Josh Axe?

  That's my mother-in-law's favorite.

• 1:41:12Speaker 02

  It's the best.

• 1:41:13Speaker 00

  I'm a, I'm a.

• 1:41:14Josh Axe?

  I have to be in the mood.

• 1:41:15Speaker 00

  Really? I, I'm a peanut butter guy. So I would do like vanilla with peanut butter.

• 1:41:20Josh Axe?

  That's hard to be.

• 1:41:20Speaker 02

  We're gonna go into our like, after I do round off my five, I want to get into our like, if we could just cheat with five, what they would be our favorites. So you know what's funny is most of my list is stuff that I hated until like two years ago, I wouldn't touch. Aside from my number one, because if I had to eat something and survive on it every day, it would be eggs. Like.

• 1:41:39Josh Axe?

  Oh, that's a great one.

• 1:41:40Speaker 02

  I would never, never get sick of it. And nutrient wise, like I know I'd be healthy.

• 1:41:45Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:45Speaker 02

  You know?

• 1:41:46Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:46Speaker 02

  So that's my number one. But then we start getting into these other ones and I'm like, I wouldn't touch an avocado. I can't live without it. I travel with them. Because you know, if you go to the store and try to buy them in town, they're not really ripe and it's hard to, you know, my wife has them ready for me, prepared. I will not leave the house without them. I will not go a day without those. So those would be two. For me, I eat a lot of vegetables, like a lot. So I would probably like, I'm a zucchini mushroom and peppers guy. So if, I, I don't know if I could combine all three or not, if that would be okay. Um, but.

• 1:42:15Speaker 00

  It's your rules.

• 1:42:16Speaker 02

  It's my rules.

• 1:42:16Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:42:17Speaker 02

  I'm just gonna say my veggies, right? My veggie plate would be three. I love salmon, which is another thing I wouldn't touch. I just get scared about eating it every day. Unless I know it's like how perfectly caught it is and everything and like with the mercury side of things. But if I could eat it every day, which I used to, till I had a high mercury result, I would, because it's the best. Now, I like king, king salmon or sockeye myself. Um, but that would be it. And then it was certainly the, if I can't do salmon, it would have to be berries. Um, blueberries are my favorites and blackberries. And I do that in Greek yogurt every day. And then the, the beef, you have to do a grass-fed beef. I think you could easily.

• 1:42:57Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:57Speaker 02

  Have that every single day.

• 1:42:59Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:59Speaker 02

  Um, so let's get into the guilty pleasures, the cheat foods. If, if you pick three.

• 1:43:05Josh Axe?

  Okay.

• 1:43:05Speaker 02

  Uh, well, yeah, because five is kind of a lot. So give me your three, what they would be.

• 1:43:11Josh Axe?

  I'm probably just a classic, like cast iron chocolate chip cookie. I mean, I make my own that are probably healthy, you know, healthier version, but I would do something like that. I'd probably top that off with vanilla ice cream and then, and then just some, just dark, just straight dark chocolate.

• 1:43:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:43:25Josh Axe?

  Okay. With some salt on it.

• 1:43:26Speaker 00

  Yeah, mine probably would be pizza, which I put on my top, which shows you like how good I am. I put it in my survival list. But I would, look, this is the truth, is that there are better for you versions for all of these things. Like, I'm not gonna go to Domino's, no offense, Domino's. I'm just not gonna do that. I, but you don't need to, like, you can get an amazing, good quality, organic sourdough pizza, gluten-free, if you, you're gluten-free. Anyways, I would do sourdough pizza. I would do peanut butter, which I would put on that list, because it's not really nutrient dense. Uh, but it tastes so good.

• 1:43:57Speaker 02

  I agree.

• 1:43:58Speaker 00

  And then third, ah, man, do you remember this? I'm gonna put this on the list because I haven't, I forget the name. It was like called Nutter Butter or Nutty Buddy. It was like a peanut shaped wafer cookie thing.

• 1:44:11Josh Axe?

  Yeah, of course, yeah.

• 1:44:12Speaker 00

  Uh, I haven't had it since the nineties. So I need to like find it. But I would, that would be on my list. Well, you know what? I was in the gas station. I was driving my son down here. He goes to college down here. And it was the white powdered donuts.

• 1:44:25Speaker 02

  Oh, man.

• 1:44:26Speaker 00

  I'm like, man, I haven't had this since nineteen ninety-seven. And I thought, what if I bought this? I didn't buy it, but I'm like.

• 1:44:35Speaker 00

  I did.

• 1:44:35Speaker 02

  Well, if I knew that it wouldn't hurt my health and like, I would be okay to have this, I would get a cheese pizza with extra grease, my friend. Because I, just how good it is, if I knew like, okay, I'm going into this where it's not gonna hurt me. So it would be the mint chip ice cream, the pizza for sure. I like just, I either get plain cheese pizza or I've always been a green pepper and mushroom guy. You know, like, like, or roasted peppers, whatever. So those two things for sure. And then it's like, okay, because the peanut butter is.

• 1:45:04Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:45:05Speaker 02

  And I like walnut butter. I don't know if you guys ever had that.

• 1:45:07Speaker 00

  No, I've never had it.

• 1:45:08Speaker 02

  But I consider that more of a health.

• 1:45:10Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:45:10Speaker 02

  Like side than a cheat side. So I would say,

• 1:45:15Speaker 02

  I'm Italian. I grew up like around it all the time. So it would like just continuous pasta every day would be my other one. I, I don't even touch it anymore. My mom always says, do you want me to make it? I'm like, no, I don't. I, inside, yes, I do, but no, I don't. So those would be mine. Okay. So I, I want to bring this up. We go in extremes, like we said. Now, right now, it's the protein extreme. Every single thing has to be protein. And I've always been a guy coming from the bodybuilding world where if I got a guy, I'm training hard. That needs to gain size. We'll do the one point five grams of protein to pound of body weight. I don't love to get on this, oh, you gotta have per pound of body weight. But what are you guys' feelings on?

• 1:45:59Speaker 02

  How extreme it's getting? What's too much? What's too little? Because I've seen some crazy people, I, okay. Crazy thoughts about eating too little. I don't want to say crazy people, sorry. But like really low, which I find to be detrimental long-term. But I think too high is also detrimental. So what are your thoughts? And then also, what are your thoughts on the ability to actually process like seventy grams of protein in a meal? Is that getting turned into sugar like some people say? Or what? Give me some facts on this.

• 1:46:26Speaker 00

  Yeah. I think, look, I think from a public health standpoint, I actually think it's great what the HHS did recently with highlighting it and increasing it slightly.

• 1:46:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:46:36Speaker 00

  Uh, the requirements, because yes, it's, we're not talking about malnourishment, but are we thriving? And I think most Americans aren't getting enough high quality. But it's the American way. Maybe it's the human way. If it, we like to over-correct. So it's like, I'm annoyed at myself right now to have to talk about protein right now, because this is people are inundated on social media all the time. And it's just, look, trends will come and go. It's having its sort of zeitgeist moment, protein is. But the truth remains the same, whether the world's paying attention or not, we need to focus on high quality protein, but not over-correct and become obsessive with it. The truth, as I said earlier, the truth is oftentimes somewhere in the middle. Um, and with protein being around that hundred grams a day, depending on your weight, obviously it's gonna fluctuate depending on your activity level, age and goal, health goals.

• 1:47:21Speaker 00

  Um, and the quality of the protein matters. But, uh, we don't always want Mtor to be high all the time. From a longevity standpoint, if you look at all the longevity research, there's gonna be periods of time where you don't want that mechanistic target of rapamycin, that which is stimulated by protein, to be high all the time.

• 1:47:38Speaker 02

  I agree.

• 1:47:39Speaker 00

  From a cellular health standpoint. So yeah, I think that probably times of less, like you, I think you said earlier in the conversation where it's like, yeah, maybe this meal is gonna be less or this day is gonna be less. There's flexibility there. Or a time of protein sparing, or times of fasting, you don't always want to be fasting. It's called starvation. So it's like, uh, I think that to become maniacally. Obsessed with then getting the protein pop tarts and the protein cold foam and the protein cereal. It's probably not needed.

• 1:48:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:48:14Speaker 00

  Actually, it's not needed because that's not the goal of this. It's a marketing tool right now. And actually, we were, I was, you weren't there, but I was at Expo West. Were you there?

• 1:48:22Speaker 02

  No, I wasn't.

• 1:48:23Speaker 00

  In March, and I heard from a lot of the food companies that there's a protein shortage because all of these companies.

• 1:48:29Speaker 02

  Whey protein is shortage now. It's the, the price has gone up like the oil price right now. I mean, it's like the same thing.

• 1:48:34Speaker 00

  Yeah. Because of this.

• 1:48:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:48:36Speaker 00

  Like, it's really largely like a marketing tool.

• 1:48:39Josh Axe?

  They do this all the time. And I remember 20 years ago, they started putting omega threes in everything. There's omega three eggs. Then there was a probiotic craze about 10 years ago. They started putting probiotics in everything. Then collagen, now protein. I mean, fiber, of course, has been on and off for years. And so it's, yeah.

• 1:48:57Speaker 02

  It's, it's, it's big time. You know, I actually designed my own protein. There's a website, I don't work with them or nothing. It's called True Nutrition and I go in and, because I'm not a big fan of like all whey protein. So mine, I make the percentages. So it's, it's beef protein isolate, it's about 55%. I do egg white protein. I do a little bit of bovine collagen, a little bit of MCT powder. And I make it that way. And I've found the way that like my body responds to it. Cause I put it in coffee every day and I don't drink protein shakes, but I utilize it in yogurt and everything. And I've noticed a different body response and digestion and everything through different formulations of it. Cause I, I find that to be a good source of, of added protein throughout the day, but don't become reliant upon it either.

• 1:49:40Speaker 02

  Was my, was my point is saying that I see a lot of people do that and you can't compensate for, for real food sources of protein. So let me ask you guys this then. Fiber is another one. So I've run into some people that think you don't need fiber. I disagree with that thoroughly, but I, a lot of carnivore people especially say you don't need it at all. What are you, what are you guys' thoughts on that? Cause I'm firmly against it. I believe that we do need it, but you know, I'm curious.

• 1:50:07Speaker 00

  Go ahead.

• 1:50:08Josh Axe?

  Want to go? Well, yeah, I mean, my, my thought is this is I think it, saying you don't need it. I think it, I think part of it comes down to what challenges, what pathogens, what things are you going to come up against in the future? Because I definitely think that there's, listen, there, there are quite a few studies that show your diversity is important. You know, I think for the, most of this, this conversation is probably around people that are on carnivore diet. Most of the people I know, they get on carnivore, they do it because they're sick and they have an immune issue.

• 1:50:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:50:38Josh Axe?

  Where their immune system's overreacting. And they're not even overreacting, it's just reacting because it's in this sort of typically it's autoimmune or mold or some sort of thing where your, your immune system is on high alert constantly. And I do think if you're decreasing your total microbial, your total microbials, you're going to have less histamine. Your body's going to have less reaction, more, less systemic inflammation. And so that's, that's why, that's why they do it. But, but I, I do think that not having bowel movements, and I do think, or having very few, because if you're, I mean, if, if you're in carnivore, you're not going to have very many bowel movements. I, I do, I do think it's a problem. I mean, I, I had a PhD on the show, James D. Nicolaantonio.

• 1:51:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:51:21Josh Axe?

  And, and he brought this up and I thought this, he said, you know, I have some research that says that if you stay on carnivore, your body is going to move into being too acidic. Now, I'm not talking about this, I remember this drove me crazy 25 years ago, the whole pH thing, just.

• 1:51:34Speaker 00

  Alkalinity.

• 1:51:35Josh Axe?

  But, but they can, I weren't talking about the one percent. So you can move over into being too acidic and your body will start pulling minerals out of the bone that are more alkaline, like magnesium and calcium and other things to start to try and keep your pH in balance. That was his perspective. He said he had some evidence and, and research on that. I think that could be true. So I, listen, I don't think that for, for most people, being carnivore is a great diet long-term. Or, and then maybe your question was also there about fiber. If, if, if you're not getting fiber, again, the studies show that that's not ideal for most people. I mean, people that do more fiber tend to have better insulin levels, tend to have better bio microbial diversity. Those are, I guess.

• 1:52:20Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think that, yeah, I agree with that. You have to meet your gut, like a big patient base that I've seen over the past 16 years of people with autoimmune and gut health issues. So I think sometimes that context is lost. You have to meet your gut where it's at. So yeah, you're telling someone that has a wrecked gut, an inflammatory autoimmune issue. Maybe you can't have all the 30 grams of fiber that, that you're hearing that you need. So you have, you may be low fiber for a while, while you heal your gut and build low, slow titrate over time as you build resilience. And look, fiber's not the only way to build microbiome diversity though. I mean, you may have polyphenols, like really focus on the olive oil that we talked about earlier, or the berries, which has some fiber.

• 1:53:00Speaker 00

  But I think that you want to actually be, bring more a polyphenol-rich foods in, which may or may not have some fiber, but the polyphenols themselves build and promote bacterial diversity. So, but I, I agree, like who, but you know what? It's so interesting. Who are the people that are saying this now? Because there's staunch, staunchest carnivore people I knew six, seven years ago, they eat more fruit than vegans do now. So there's, I think people, again, that this, I make it their personality to say like this, everybody, and this applies to everybody. They don't, like, we see people as far as patience for all day long.

• 1:53:43Speaker 00

  So if I hung my hat in one way for everybody, I'd be proven wrong all day long. So you have to have an intellectual flexibility to bio-individuality because it's like, bro, you are just talking about yourself.

• 1:53:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:53:53Speaker 00

  At this season of your life, don't apply that to everybody.

• 1:53:55Josh Axe?

  That's exactly what happens. What happens is, and some of it's good, it's good intentions. It's, it helped them.

• 1:54:01Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:54:01Josh Axe?

  So they feel like, they feel like, oh, I did paleo or I did vegan or I did, and it helped me. That means everybody should do this thing to help me. But to your point with like, like Paul Saladino, and he's a really smart guy. And, and it helped him with some of his issues. I know a lot of people with mold, it helped them. But now to your point, a lot of them now are, they add in fruit and then honey and then eggs. And then they add in fruit, you know, vegetables. I mean, so, so they kind of keep going because really you're typically, if you're healthy, you're going to be trying to get a lot of those foods in your diet.

• 1:54:31Speaker 02

  That's just it. Things go in phases and stages, right? And so I'm always trying to be careful when I say, well, you should do this because I am. I like to break down, this is where I had problems. This is what I did to fix it. Now here's where I'm at today. And this is what's working right now. But the, therein goes that term flexibility. Because we change as we age, body response changes.

• 1:54:53Speaker 00

  Microbiome changes.

• 1:54:54Speaker 02

  Exactly. Conditions change and some of the foods or exposures we have to things change.

• 1:54:58Josh Axe?

  That's right.

• 1:54:59Speaker 02

  You know, and, and you have to, you have to be able to pivot and accommodate and be ready to do that.

• 1:55:03Speaker 00

  And stress levels change too. Like, is it the food or is it your mental state and spiritual state when you eat the food?

• 1:55:09Speaker 02

  That's it.

• 1:55:10Speaker 00

  Back to that bagel tone that we talked about earlier.

• 1:55:11Speaker 02

  Yeah. So if you guys could leave everybody with one thing today of, of importance that you really want to stress right now, and I know there's a lot that, that we would all like to, to wrap around here. But what's one thing each of you would like to leave with people from what we discussed today and what you really feel of value?

• 1:55:31Josh Axe?

  Yeah, well, well, I'll just say that I think it's important to know that God designed you uniquely. There's no one else in the world like you. And so you need to be eating foods that are right for you, supplements that are right for you. I mean, have something that's tailored, that's ideal for you to follow, for you to reach your optimal level of health. And that's one thing we try to do in Heal Yourselves is we really lay out how to reverse irreversible, how to heal anything. We go through protocol. People can take a quiz in there and find out which organ might be aging faster, what protocol they need to follow. And we have a protocol in there that people can follow. But I, I think that, you know, that personalized medicine is the future and that's where people see the biggest results.

• 1:56:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:56:12Speaker 00

  I would say that your body is amazingly resilient, but you have to do something different to see something different. And I, a big percentage, my, my intention for the, this book, as it comes out into the world, is that the people that are medically gaslit, people that are told they're crazy, there's, there's nothing wrong with you, that they know intuitively something's off. Not to become a hypochondriac and look for problems with their own problems, but you know your body. And we really wrote this book for those people, those people that have what the world may call mystery illnesses, or the people that just know they're not feeling their best. They know this isn't just age or just stress or whatever it is, they know something's off here.

• 1:56:51Speaker 00

  And the science is pointing to this, but there's such a gap between what's in the scientific literature and then it triple, trickling down to conversations that people are having with their doctor. It may never happen because it's a training within the paradigm. Then they're trained to diagnose a disease and match it with the pharmaceutical drug. So we are having conversations that probably they've never had before ever with their doctor. We got to have in the book, so I'm excited for people to read it.

• 1:57:16Speaker 02

  I love it. I would just like to say, set yourself a foundation. I'm a God-first foundational person and I believe that that will set the stage for your healing and your growth as a person and who you can become for yourself and then for everybody else around you. And I, I just want to say this too. When you become more selfless and not selfish and you take care of yourself, then you're taking care of your loved ones around you. You can be your best you. And, and you prioritize people and your, your resilience as a person and who you were meant to be. That's living. That's what it's all about. It's not about you, it's about what you do for the people around you. And that makes you the healthiest and the happiest and, and the best you can be for everybody around you.

• 1:58:01Speaker 02

  So I just want to say this. What an honor and joy and pleasure it is to sit here with you guys. I mean, it really is to me. I was sitting last night and I was going, wow, I can't believe that I'm going to get to sit with two people like so esteemed and so amazing and brilliant. And I get to just be a part of that and be here with you guys. It means a lot to me. I know God brought us together here for messaging, but what you guys do, not just this book, which is amazing, all of these years of sacrifice that you've given and the, the way that you've conveyed message that you've, you've been abused, you've taken shots from people and you're just, it makes you go harder. I love that about you guys.

• 1:58:42Speaker 02

  And to be able to sit here and, and do this and share it with you, like this is why I live. And so I just, beyond the thank you for that, it's just gratitude to be here with you and to share this. And, and I really hope everybody listening just really takes into what you guys do and teach because it's amazing.

• 1:59:00Speaker 00

  Thanks, man.

• 1:59:01Josh Axe?

  Thanks so much. Appreciate it.

• 1:59:02Speaker 00

  So you're saying, you're saying not everybody likes us?

• 1:59:05Speaker 02

  I think that the three of us are not for everybody, but I think we are for a lot. So that's going to wrap it up today, everybody. Thank you so much for joining us. I hope this hits home and just remember prioritize your health first. Live that long and healthy life. Cellular health, God first, and we love you.