219 How a Huge Vision Becomes Reality with Bryan Johnson

"I wanted to build a company with a soul." - Bryan Johnson If you enjoyed this episode, check out show notes and more at http://lewishowes.com/219. Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  This is episode number 219 with Brian Johnson.

• 0:07Lewis Howes?

  Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week, we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 0:33Lewis Howes?

  Welcome everyone to today's episode. We have a fantastic guest on today. His name is Brian Johnson. And he lived in Ecuador for two years in his early twenties and became inspired to devote his life to improving the lives of others. In January 2007, he founded a company called Braintree, which was twice named one of the fastest growing companies in America by Inc. Magazine. Then in 2013 eBay and PayPal bought Braintree for $800 million in cash. In October 2014, he launched the OS Fund, which investing in world-changing technologies that promise to rewrite the operating systems of life. He's an outdoor enthusiast, pilot, children's book author, and has climbed some of the tallest mountains in the world.

• 1:18Lewis Howes?

  He's a father and all-around incredible human being. I'm very excited to let you guys dive into the mind of Brian Johnson. Because he went through some struggles in his early companies. Actually, his one of his first companies was very successful. Then two major failures and then came back and launched Braintree and sold it for 800 million. So this is a great story that you're going to listen to. And Brian shares some fascinating things about how to grow a company, how to come back after a lot of adversity and essentially failure of not having companies succeed at all, and come back and do something incredible. And now all the things he's doing and all the things he's up to is fascinating to me.

• 2:00Lewis Howes?

  I think you're going to love this episode. I think you're going to love this interview. Make sure to spread the word about this episode using the link lewishowes.com/219. Share it out on Twitter, Facebook, and everywhere online. And our sponsor for today, before we get into this episode, is the School of Greatness book. That's right. My book is sponsoring the show. What did you think about that? And I'm excited, guys. This is coming out October 27th. We've had Thousands of pre-orders so far. If you haven't picked up a copy yet, make sure to buy a pre-order copy today. Go to Amazon, go to BarnesandNoble.com, go to greatnessbook.com. You can learn more about

• 2:40Lewis Howes?

  the book there. Buy a few copies for your friends. Get the word out. Greatness is coming October 27th. Get ready. Until then, we've got some incredible episodes coming up, including this one. So get ready. Put your seatbelt on and let's dive into this episode with the one, the only Brian Johnson.

• 3:05Lewis Howes?

  Welcome everyone back to the School of Greatness Podcast. Very excited about today's guest. His name is Brian Johnson. He is the founder of a company called Braintree, which eventually sold for $800 million to PayPal and eBay. And he is also an outdoor adventure enthusiast. He climbs mountains, goes in active volcanoes, he does Arctic dog sledding, he's a pilot and an author of children's books, among many other things, and also an incredible human being. So I want to welcome you, Brian, to the podcast.

• 3:37Speaker 01

  Thank you very much. Appreciate that.

• 3:39Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I'm very excited because you're a man who's had incredible success in your life. Let's say in the financial sense, in the entrepreneur world, and a lot of my listeners want to learn about how to get to the next level. So I'd love to dive into all these things about your life, and specifically how you built your business, how you even came up with the idea in the first place, created a culture of positive energy. So people wanted to stay around and support the vision you had. But it all had to come from somewhere. And you know, how did you even get to that place in the first point? Were you always successful in every venture that you created? Or were there challenges along the way?

• 4:21Speaker 01

  No, I think so. I think that the biggest turning point I had in my life was I was 21 years old. I'd just returned from a two-year volunteer stint in Ecuador and I was there living among people shackled by extreme poverty. And I came back to the States and just the experience just changed the way I understood the world and myself. And I determined that I wanted to spend my life trying to improve the lives of others. Having a job didn't make sense to me and, you know, living up, working until the age of 65 then retiring, like that just didn't make sense. And so I decided that I was going to build a business and retire by the age of 30 and then with abundance of time and resources, go out and try to be useful in the world. And I committed to family and friends that that was my path

• 5:06Speaker 01

  and I went about doing it. But yeah, I mean, there was certainly quite a lot of failures and discouragement and difficult times along the way. I mean, to say the least.

• 5:13Lewis Howes?

  Okay. So, did you retire by 30 then? Or when did that, when did that happen where you could retire?

• 5:19Speaker 01

  I was 34, 35.

• 5:23Lewis Howes?

  Is that when you sold Braintree?

• 5:24Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 5:25Lewis Howes?

  Okay. So, you, you didn't complete the vision by 30, but you did it by 35 and it, it sounds like, you know, 800 million still a pretty good success. So, uh, congrats on making that happen, even though it's five years late. Um, so after 21, when you're coming back, how did you know you were going to be a great entrepreneur? How did you know that you were going to be able to do this on, essentially on your own as opposed to going and finding a job?

• 5:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, I guess I knew, I, I'd opened up a spreadsheet one day and I started doing the math, like what would it take to accumulate enough money to basically be able to never work again? And

• 6:05Lewis Howes?

  What was that for you?

• 6:06Speaker 01

  Well, so I came up with this number 7 million. I don't even remember how I came to the number, but I thought 7 million should be adequate. If I had that, I could go out and I could spend time, be useful in the world. I wouldn't have to go to a job or something like that. I thought, how would I ever accumulate that much money working at a job? I'd have to take some particular path, like become a, a lawyer and become a partner in the firm, or get into investment banking, or, I mean, something that has a larger payoff. Because I didn't really have any skills that I was, I didn't have anything I was really good at. And so that's why I decided to become an entrepreneur, that you could make an enormous amount of money in a short period of time.

• 6:39Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 6:39Speaker 01

  And so, uh, that's, I, it was just, I burned the boats. I mean, there was no other option for me. I knew I couldn't get a job. I wasn't going to trade, uh, sixty minutes of my time for eight dollars and seventy-five cents in college. Like, it just seemed ludicrous to me.

• 6:51Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 6:52Speaker 01

  And so I just didn't see any other way to live life. And, uh, such just wasn't an option.

• 6:58Lewis Howes?

  So what was the first, what was the first thing you did then? I mean, so you said, okay, I'm gonna make seven million dollars and I'm gonna figure this thing out. Did you have mentors? Did you have, uh, you know, partners? Or you just like, I'm gonna go start selling something? What was that first thing?

• 7:13Speaker 01

  Well, so I went and bought a cell phone from this guy, uh, at the mall one day. I'd found him in the Yellow Pages and I knew he'd give me a cheap phone. I bargained over the phone, over the, over the phone with him. And so we met up and he said, hey, like, you look energetic and you're seeming like you're smart. So why don't you come sell phones for me? I'll pay you forty bucks per activation.

• 7:31Lewis Howes?

  Uh huh.

• 7:31Speaker 01

  And I thought, perfect. Like, right? If I do forty dollar, if I did two activations per hour and I work ten hours a week, like I'm on the path to making, you know, forty grand a year. And I thought, that's ideal. It's, I can now pay my way through college. I can focus on my studies. And so I did that for two days. On the second day, I poured this, uh, woman, she had two screaming children. And I had this thought, and I thought, if I'm selling phones for him, why can't other people? And I literally, I left the conversation and I ran home. Like, two solid days, uh, figuring out the industry, like who sold phones, how I could sell for others, how people could sell them for me, all that, all this, all that kind of stuff. And I launched my business two days later. And I was on my path. I started my first company and I built out a network of college students to sell

• 8:15Speaker 01

  phones for me. And I paid my way through college. It was a profitable business. It was a good business. And I had time to do, uh, well enough in school. But that was my first entry point into entrepreneurship.

• 8:25Lewis Howes?

  So how did you even come up with the idea that you were, that you could do it on your own? You know, you're twenty, twenty-one, twenty-one right then. How did you even think that, oh, I can do this on my own? You know, I mean, who does that? Who just says, I'm gonna do it on my own?

• 8:39Speaker 01

  So honestly, it didn't occur to me that I couldn't.

• 8:42Lewis Howes?

  Oh, okay.

• 8:43Speaker 01

  Uh, maybe, maybe that was a problem, but I, I never had a doubt. I thought, I'll just figure it out on the fly.

• 8:49Lewis Howes?

  Interesting. Where do you think that mentality came from? Did you have, you know, parents that really instilled that in you? Or was that just an innate feeling you had?

• 8:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, growing up, my, my parents trusted us enormously. We, we lived, we grew up in Utah and we lived, uh, just the 45 minutes south of Salt Lake. We had a bunch of fields around us and we went out and did our own thing all the time. And we were trusted to make good decisions. Now, we didn't make good decisions all the time. We were, uh, quite mischievous. But yeah, I mean, I just grew up running my own show and running my own world. And, uh, my parents trusted me to do so and I gained the confidence that I could. And so I think it's probably just instilled in, in how they dealt with me as I grew up.

• 9:30Lewis Howes?

  What other type of environment did they create for you? And how many siblings did you have?

• 9:34Speaker 01

  Uh, three brothers and one sister.

• 9:36Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, that's cool. Yeah. I mean, I have a big family as well. What other, what other, what was the environment you think they created that cultivated this for you? Was it just this trust or was it this encouragement? Did they, you know, teach you constantly new things? Or was it just, you know, go figure it out?

• 9:54Speaker 01

  Well, so I'll, one time I was, I loved dogs. So I was down at my, my, uh, stepdad's shop and there was a stray dog. And I was gonna go home and get some dog food for him. So I put him in the front seat of this truck. I was, I think 14 at the time and I was driving along before I got my license. And my stepdad was cool with it. So I got in the truck, I was driving down the road. He came over, licked me in the face and I accidentally put my hand on the wheel and turned too far left. By the time I looked up, I ran over this railroad sign and drove the truck into the ditch. And so I walked back to my dad's shop. I said, hey, I just drove the truck into the ditch and ran over a railroad sign. And as so typical of him, he just said, all right, let's get the truck and pull it out. Like he wasn't mad. He didn't berate me. He didn't say, why'd you do that? He just pulled me out. And so we got down there, we pulled it out and then the sheriff drives by.

• 10:39Speaker 01

  He says, hey, how you doing? Good, good. They're, they're friends, the local community. And then he goes to drive away and he looks at the railroad sign and he says, did you run over that? And I said, yeah. And so he ended up giving me a ticket for no insurance, no license. I had to do community service and pay the cost of the railroad sign. But I never got a talking to from my parents. They just let it go. Like they knew I understood that I made a mistake and that I could manage myself. But they they just dealt with us so well as we went through our teenage years and older in exploring the world.

• 11:11Lewis Howes?

  Hmm. That's amazing. That's great that they didn't, you know, make you feel wrong or bad about it. You already knew you were, you know, wrong and bad for what you did. What's your fondest memory about your parents growing up?

• 11:24Speaker 01

  We loved each other. We we loved hanging out. I mean, for example, in high school, my mom, to keep an eye on her mischievous boy, she was substitute teach, which was funny. And I'd walk down the hallway with my arm around her and she gave high fives to my friends. I was proud of my mom. I love my mom and everyone loved her and we just were a really tight family. We enjoyed each other's company. We loved hanging out together. And so I think they did a really good job of fostering great relationships between us.

• 11:57Lewis Howes?

  If you could give any piece of advice to parents out there listening right now about the biggest lesson you learned about yourself growing up as a kid, what would you share with parents on how to cultivate great children?

• 12:11Speaker 01

  So I think what they did with me and what I tried to do with my children is I tried to be relevant in their lives. And so if you if like my 12 year old would come up from school and if I say, how's your day? The response is good. Right. But if I know stuff going on in his world, if I know his friends and the girlfriends, I know what he's studying at school. I know the the social intricacies of the drama happening between who got in a fight and how they how it happened and what he's concerned about personally is insecurities or his his hopes and dreams, I can really dig in deep. And so I try really hard to be integrated into my children's lives. I really am truly relevant. So when it comes home, I can say like, hey, so what's the deal between Sam and Kelly? Do they get in a fight again? Are they are they still struggling over the Xbox One game on who's going to play Minecraft? Right? Like I can be relevant.

• 12:54Speaker 01

  And so I just say, understand them. And I think by doing so, you can connect on these deeper levels and be

• 13:01Speaker 01

  Have a meaningful role in their life, not just as a parent.

• 13:04Lewis Howes?

  What would you say is the superpower that you developed in the first thirty years of your life? Uh, with all the experiences you created that helped you get to where you are, what is that? Superpower thing that you have? That maybe other people don't have as much of?

• 13:21Speaker 01

  I wouldn't attribute it to a superpower. Uh, I would just say that I'm, I'm very proud that the people that I got to work with in the companies that we built, that we had the mutual tenaciousness to continue in the darkest and most challenging times.

• 13:41Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 13:42Speaker 01

  And it wasn't my individual effort, it was a group and we all built each other up and we helped each other through, but it's a, it's a lesson of who you associate with, those closest to you are extremely important. Because um, the very few of us are strong enough to stand on our own. And I think that I was very fortunate to have people around me who were, were strong enough to get us through those difficult times to get us to the end where I think it was a good outcome.

• 14:06Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, that's cool. So you had this success with your, you know, the cell phone company where you were selling phones, making money in college that paid you through college. But then your next two companies failed pretty big. And I'm curious, how were you able to, uh, you know, what was that experience like going from a success in college to then failing with your next two big ideas? And then how did you stay confident in moving forward in the next big win?

• 14:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I think failed is right and failed miserably is probably more correct. We, so I mean, once I, I had a profitable business, I penciled out what the, the potential was, and it just wasn't enough. And at that point, I mean, seven million was my initial idea, but it wasn't a big enough number now. My ambitions were growing in time.

• 14:53Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 14:54Speaker 01

  And so with three other co-founders, I started a, a voice over IP company. When people were making phone calls over the internet instead of through the traditional telephone lines. And it was the predecessor to Skype and Vonage. And I think the retrospective on that company is we did absolutely everything wrong. It was the wrong team, wrong product, wrong technology. Like we just, we had good intentions and we are capable people generally, but we just were not the right fit for that company. We'd raised four hundred and twenty thousand dollars from angel investors and an eighty thousand dollar loan, which we personally guaranteed. And we built the product, we got some revenue, we went for a second round of funding and that was when nine eleven happened and the market dried up. But I don't think we really could or should have raised any more money.

• 15:38Speaker 01

  We just didn't have what it took to build a company. So that failed. Then on the heels of that, uh, my older brother, who was a partner in the previous company, he and I started a real estate development company with a, a real estate developer in the area where he and I were raising money and running operations for the company and he was doing the real estate development. We launched a fifty million dollar real estate project that took us basically two years to launch. And Fanny May was our equity investor with three million dollars. And the project stalled in phase one because we, we didn't have adequate storage space in the units. And so empty nesters showed up to buy and sales were not as fast as we'd hoped and the bank had some concerns. And so another group came in and bought us out and so we both were left with nothing.

• 16:22Speaker 01

  But I mean, that was actually, you know, honestly, one of the best things that ever happened to me because during those years of building the real estate company, we had no income and I had a child at the home, at home at the time and I needed money to pay the mortgage and buy food. And I applied for dozens and dozens of jobs. Nobody would even give me a call back. Really? No, and I mean, I just think they just, they sniffed me, right? They smelled that I was, I was probably un-hireable and I was gonna leave anyways. I read the paper one day and I saw they listed out the fifty richest people in Utah and I thought, that's it. So I emailed them and I said, hey, you know, I'm, I'm young, I'm ambitious, I'm resourceful, I'll do whatever you want me to do, I'll be a right-hand man. I just need a part-time gig while I'm building my companies. I thought, don't get it. No one responded.

• 17:06Speaker 01

  And so at that point, I was totally desperate to make ends meet. And I needed to find this part-time job. And so I found this job in monster.com that was selling that advertised selling credit card processing door to door. And basically, if you could fog a mirror, you were hired. And so I started selling for this company. And within a year, I became the company's number one salesperson. I broke all their sales records by simply using honest and honesty and transparency and good support. And I found the industry that I would build Braintree in. It was a remarkable discovery.

• 17:37Lewis Howes?

  Wow, okay. So you're you're unhireable by the 50 wealthiest people in Utah. And they wouldn't reply to you. Desperate, you were broke, you had no money coming in. And then you took a job that probably wasn't the most like life fulfilling job selling credit card. You know, what was it? Credit card accounts?

• 18:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, exactly. Processing. Yeah, yeah.

• 18:02Lewis Howes?

  So it's probably not your first choice, but it was probably profitable at the same time when you were successful at it. And you realize that in that process, you could do it better, just like you could do it better with the cellphone selling. I'm assuming.

• 18:15Speaker 01

  Yes, yes.

• 18:16Lewis Howes?

  Okay, so you started Braintree with this foundation of being honest, real and open and having the best support. And what did you notice when you first launched it? Was it a challenge to get it started? Were you raising money? Did you do it all on your own? What happened?

• 18:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, so this was the first, well, I did the cell phones startup on my own. And then I had partners for the second one and partners for the third one. And I did sales on my own. And this time I wanted to go it alone again. So I started the company on my own. And I bootstrapped it from day one. I bootstrapped for nearly five years, which was fantastic. But with Braintree, I guess the observation of the industry was it was broken. The technology was a decade behind. It was old. It was boring. No one really paid attention to it. And it's just this gem just sitting there. And I think oftentimes entrepreneurs look for the sexy, cool industries that are great to brag at it. You know, cocktail parties or whatever. And oftentimes overlook these really boring industries which have enormous potential, but not many people play in them.

• 19:17Speaker 01

  And so I started Braintree because I thought that we could deliver a better solution than what was happening out there. And so, and I guess the other thing is I wanted. Didn't just want to build a company to make money. I wanted to build an exceptional company, one with a soul. And so I set up three goals for the company. One is that we would become the payments provider of choice for engineers. Two, that our employees would say it was the best company they'd ever worked for. And three, that our customers would write us love letters. And I figured that if we got those three things done, that everything else would fall into place. And that was true.

• 19:51Lewis Howes?

  Hmm, that's cool. So people wrote you love letters?

• 19:54Speaker 01

  We didn't. That was our desire. If any interaction, whether it be email or phone, or whether somebody's using the documentation to code to our APIs, you know, to integrate their software with our software, anything, I wanted them to walk away and say, wow, unbelievable. Like, they really get it. They care. They're all over it. So we just wanted to be an exceptional shop.

• 20:14Lewis Howes?

  Now, how many employees did it end up growing to before you sold it? And how were you able to create such exceptionalism and communicate this message to every one of these employees so that they lived up to the standard that you wanted the company to have?

• 20:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was a combination of a bunch of things. But I think, one, we set the tone internally that we wanted the very best people, that we just didn't have a safety net internally. If someone wasn't up to par with what they were supposed to do, we didn't have a training program to help them. We didn't have another department to shift them. We just said, go out and be awesome. And we want people to praise you, write you love letters. And so we did small things. For example, I would post the job ads on Craigslist. And I would put, on the very top, if you refer someone for this position, I will pay you $5,000. Because my first assumption was, if you're reading the job ad, you're probably not the person I want to hire. Which was, I mean,

• 21:14Speaker 01

  all irony aside, I was a guy looking on the job ad a while back myself. But the most exceptional people are typically, you know, satisfied with their job. And so then I would list out, please do not apply if. And we'd try to list out characteristics that weren't consistent with our environment, that we do, please do apply if. But the goal was, we wanted the very best people to jump out of their chairs and say, yes, like, this is it. This is where I want to work. And so we tried to build on that culture where everyone felt that they were working with someone who was just as exceptional as them.

• 21:43Lewis Howes?

  Hmm, that's amazing. And how many employees did you end up having?

• 21:47Speaker 01

  I believe it was around 150 or so at the time of acquisition.

• 21:50Lewis Howes?

  Okay, wow. What was the biggest challenge, you know, running a company of 150 employees for you? When previously, it looks like you were running, you know, smaller companies than that. Was there a challenge when you scaled it to that level or was it fine for you?

• 22:06Speaker 01

  No, it was, uh, it was perpetually a challenge. I mean, constantly a challenge. I mean, so I learned a couple of lessons I thought were useful. One is that everybody always has a pebble in their shoe. Everyone's always upset about something, a relationship, a process, a job, responsibility, like whatever. And so I did these weekly town hall meetings where we'd get together and I didn't want to talk about, I mean, I'd do a quick company update, but then I just wanted to spend time talking about how people felt about the company. What was bothering them? What were they excited about? And I would just let this awkward silence sit. And I would invite, because I knew, I knew what the scuttlebutt was. Like I knew what people were worried about. I know what people were, you know, were talking about in the hushed whispers.

• 22:49Speaker 01

  But we'd finally get it out on the table and we'd talk about really honest, true stuff. And it was like group therapy and we got it on the table and we established this culture of true transparency. And it just set the tone for how we could weather the challenges together because we inevitably had so many challenges. But our ability to maintain an honest relationship was really the glue that allowed us to weather it and go through all the challenges that you inevitably do growing a company to that size.

• 23:15Lewis Howes?

  So do you recommend any company, you know, a thousand employees or five employees, do a town hall meeting? Did you do it once a week or, and do you recommend that anyone should do this?

• 23:29Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, as a certain size, I can't speak from experience when you get to a thousand or 2000 or 5000. Uh, but I will say that one of, uh, The biggest government agencies that works on keeping the country secure came in and toured the company one time and they had this problem where they called it the Steve problem. And there was this guy within the organization, Steve, that was a real jerk. Like he just, he was rude to people and he stomped on them and he pushed people down on his way up. And he kept on getting promoted. And so a whole bunch of people like, like little Steve's popped up. Like everybody wanted to be like Steve because that was the type of personality people wanted. They saw that was what was getting rewarded. And so I'd spend a lot of time telling stories about people inside of Braintree who went

• 24:11Speaker 01

  above and beyond the call of duty and who got people to write them love letters because they were so exceptional in what they did. Because I think storytelling is a big part of, of identifying people who truly exemplified it and keeping that as the, the key metric for what kind of culture you want to build. I mean, it's the narratives you create, it's the stories you tell, and it's repeating that again and again and again to reinforce who you are, what you stand for. And I think those things can be done at all levels because you, you set the tone on what is desirable and undesirable behaviors.

• 24:41Lewis Howes?

  Right. What do you think the, the key building blocks for any entrepreneur listening to just get to the next level and build a thriving business for themselves? Whether they're trying to make a million dollars a year or

• 24:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:56Lewis Howes?

  eight hundred million. What do you think are the necessary foundations, those building blocks?

• 25:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:03Lewis Howes?

  Get to that next level?

• 25:05Speaker 01

  So I'm writing this article right now that basically says why I am skeptical of advice. And so the

• 25:13Lewis Howes?

  So don't give us any.

• 25:15Speaker 01

  So the irony, I'll give some advice by saying not give advice. But so this image comes to mind when I think of advice and it's this person walking through a minefield and the other side of the field is the promised land, like whatever that person desires. In my case, it was retirement by thirty so I could go out and be useful in the world. And on each side of the field are people who are yelling to this person, you know, like serpentine, go left, go right, jump up and down. There's like, there's a

• 25:43Speaker 01

  Endless amount of advice in the world, people who would offer up context. And I guess my advice to people is that everyone has to make their own decisions based upon their unique context, that anything I say is baked into that, all my personal experience in life, and with so much of which is not in there. And so I think it's important to include people's data points, but I think it's even more important to trust yourself and identifying what drives you and how you get to your destination. So I think oftentimes people lean on others too much and they don't build the confidence they need to do on their own. So I'd say you can do it. Like you've got the wherewithal, do it.

• 26:16Lewis Howes?

  I a hundred percent agree. I think it's definitely like a dance. You know, for me, I've been, as an athlete, I've always grown up with great coaches guiding and facilitating essentially you to become a champion in your sport. And so when you're used to having a coach that analyzes and assesses and gives you feedback, and it supports you to getting that next level, sometimes it's hard to do it on your own and you're constantly looking for that feedback and support, but I definitely believe, but I also believe you can't achieve anything great on your own, that it takes a team. So I think it's like an interesting dance of finding that inner wisdom and trusting your gut and your instincts and taking action, making mistakes, but also having good support and feedback as well.

• 26:59Speaker 01

  I agree. My favorite advisor was Chuck. I had, I didn't have any investors, no co-founders. I had one advisor for two years when I first started Braintree, Chuck Templeton, who started OpenTable. And he was so good, I would call him and when I had a problem and he could get to speed within two or three minutes of context. And then all he'd do would be to ask me questions. And he would never give me advice. He would never poke in. He just simply would say, I know you have the answer. Let me help you find it. And within, you know, 10, 15 minutes, I'd be done. I'd be off the call. But he was so good at knowing what questions to ask. And so I've tried to copy him in terms of when I deal with people. I just ask questions and let them figure it out on their own.

• 27:41Lewis Howes?

  What type of questions are you looking to ask and what are you listening for to make sure you ask those questions?

• 27:49Speaker 01

  I'm basically trying to find their their blind spots, the the assumptions they're baking into their process. So I guess at Braintree, I use this example all the time, the the monkey story, which is one of my favorites. There's five monkeys in a room. There's a ladder that goes up to a basket of bananas. One monkey tries to go up to get the bananas and it gets sprayed with cold water as to the other monkeys. And so every time a monkey tries to climb up the ladder, get the the bananas, they always sprayed with cold water. And so they learn this behavior. And so they pull out one monkey, put a new monkey in, the new monkey tries to go up and grab the bananas. And of course, they all get sprayed by cold water. So the monkeys try to grab any new monkey who tries to go up the ladder to get the bananas. They learn this behavior. So finally, you have five new monkeys in the cage, none of which have ever been sprayed by cold water. But every time a monkey tries to go to the ladder, they grab them and pull them back.

• 28:33Speaker 01

  And so the moral of the story was, don't be a monkey. And so in questioning people, we do so many things in life that we have no idea why we do them. And when we can't solve problems, it's because we've packed into that so much stuff. And so someone with a clear with a clear sheet of paper can identify those things. So I try to focus in on what are you missing in your thought process that would change how you would tackle this problem?

• 28:56Lewis Howes?

  Hmm, I love that. What, just so I can get back to the also, um, the town hall meeting. Is there any questions that you would open the town hall meeting with? Would you say, hey, you know, what's not working or where are you not happy with or what's upsetting you? Were there a set of questions or you just open the floor?

• 29:15Speaker 01

  I open the floor and I would prompt, I would say, you know, what's on your minds, what's bothering you? And again, I knew what was going on. I'd heard it. And so I would sometimes tease small things, but I, I mean, for example, I encourage people to criticize me. Because if it was cool to criticize me, it was okay to bring up just about everything else. And so.

• 29:34Lewis Howes?

  And they didn't get fired when they criticized you?

• 29:36Speaker 01

  No, I mean, I applauded them. I openly congratulated them and told them I really appreciated it. I would take responsibility for the things I messed up. And I tried to set the culture that no one was above reproach and no one was above any responsibility. So they were safe in expressing whatever they want to express.

• 29:50Lewis Howes?

  Hmm, that's really powerful leadership, I think. That's cool that you set that example. What about your current mentors now? Do you have any current mentors that you lean on to for guidance that you're inspired by?

• 30:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, I just have this great group of friends that I get with that are fellow entrepreneurs working on hard things and.

• 30:14Speaker 01

  Our communication, it's like, I guess I would say with a person off the street, we may have like a 56K connection in our ability to understand each other. With these other entrepreneurs, it's like a gig. Like, we just understand each other so well and so fast, and we have the same underlying life experiences that allows us to communicate at such an effective layer. And that is the only advice I do give to people, really, is that surround yourself by exceptional people. People who, when you walk away, you've got a spring in your step, and you feel like you just have to go out and work harder. You want to do more, be more. And so I'd say that probably is the... When I'm with these people, I feel that way. And that's the way I want others to feel when they're with me. And so I would say that that's probably it.

• 30:55Lewis Howes?

  What about your daily practices and habits and rituals? Do you have a practice in the morning or at night that continues to keep you sharp and engaged and have passion and energy when you're around the most inspiring, wealthy, successful entrepreneurs in the world? I mean, what do you do to stay sharp every day?

• 31:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, I love two things. I love reading. I read voraciously. And then, secondly, I love to find people that I can ask questions of for hours and just figure out how they understand the world, how they came to certain conclusions, what they're studying, what they know, what they're exploring. I'm just fascinated by knowledge and understanding. I want to hear how other people exist. And so those two are probably, I think, the most rewarding in terms of knowledge acquisition.

• 31:44Lewis Howes?

  That's cool. What do you believe you've been avoiding in your life to get you to the next level of whatever level that is? Whether that's relationships, or your next venture that you're working on now, or your health? Is there anything you've been avoiding to get to whatever the next level is? And what is that?

• 32:02Speaker 01

  That's a great question. I think over the past couple of years, I've become much more introspective around my own shortcomings and issues and problems and whatever comes from childhood. And I think I was oblivious to it before, thinking that somehow I was unscathed by life. But as I look at myself closely, I think I've found a lot of value in deep examination. And being comfortable with the inherent chaos that it means to be human. That somehow we think when we look at someone across the table that their life is put together and that they're okay and that only, only we, only I am feeling this overwhelming chaos

• 32:45Speaker 01

  in my life, all the things that feel disjointed and out of my control and that concern me. I think just getting to that point where I'm okay with that element of chaos in my life and I'm okay being human and everyone else is the same as me and that I can relate with them on that level, I think it's been probably the most liberating thing for me and was probably the biggest thing that helped me back for the longest time.

• 33:07Lewis Howes?

  Do you have a daily practice about, you know, being aware of what you've been avoiding? Or are the things holding you back? Is there anything that you do to practice self-awareness? Do you have a meditation practice or is it just kind of come and go whenever you're recognizing it?

• 33:21Speaker 01

  No, I do try to meditate daily. I also journal daily. So I love to write and when I write, ideas come out of my brain that don't, that don't come out in terms of, in the form of words, which I've always thought was interesting.

• 33:33Lewis Howes?

  Right, okay. What's, you know, you've, in the financial entrepreneur world, there's not really much farther you can go. I mean, eight hundred million, I mean, I don't know how much more money you need to make to really retire. It sounds like you've been able to, you've achieved that goal. So what does someone at your level do for the rest of your life? What's the vision that you have now, once you've, you know, fulfilled kind of this financial retirement dream, you've done it. What's the vision now? How do you see yourself impacting the world?

• 34:04Speaker 01

  Well, at twenty-one, I had this, this raw desire to go out and improve people's lives, but I really didn't know what that meant. And so in college, I looked at the normal opportunities like the, the United Nations Model Council or working in Africa or all the endeavors you typically see in a college-type environment. And none of them really spoke to me. And so while I was building my companies over the next decade or so, I thought about this almost daily and I spent an enormous amount of time studying science and technology and wondering about where the human race was going. And that was specifically focused on the technologies that we had at our disposal. And I think the uniqueness of our time and place and the history.

• 34:49Speaker 01

  of humanity is that we have these incredibly powerful tools of creation. For example, like computer software and biology and artificial intelligence, virtual reality, robotics. We can literally program any kind of world we can imagine. I mean, for example, like we just in the past couple of decades have proven that we can program biology. So your biology, I'm biology, the world runs on biology, we can program that. And it's a stunning revelation. And so the most pressing question in my mind is what kind of world are we going to build? And as I contemplated this, I I set up a fund called the OS Fund and I allocated a hundred million dollars of my personal capital to invest in entrepreneurs and scientists

• 35:30Speaker 01

  who are working on humanity's most vexing challenges and greatest opportunities focused on these types of tools. And so we've we've made quite a few investments and it ranges from genomics to artificial intelligence to space. But I really think there's an enormous opportunity for humanity to do amazing things, to build what we can imagine. And I'd like to try to play a role in that for a positive outcome.

• 35:55Lewis Howes?

  What do you want us to see, what do you want to see us build the most in the next ten to twenty years? What do you want to see us as humans create for ourselves in the future?

• 36:06Speaker 01

  Well, for example, one company, Human Longevity, I'm invested in, they're trying to to radically extend healthy human life, trying to make, you know, one twenty to sixty. Or a company called Ginkgo Bioworks is trying to trying to make biology an even more predictable, making the predictability of biological programming a reality. So for example, instead of growing acres and acres and acres of fields of rose petals, you can produce the same oil in a lab just by designing an organism that's that's better on the environment, that produces a more economical output. So just things like that that basically would would allow us to live longer, healthier

• 36:49Speaker 01

  lives, enable us to solve some bigger challenges around the environment and how we produce materials. Other companies, for example, in space exploration, one company is long-term vision is to try to mine an asteroid. So on asteroid, you have precious metals and you also have water, so you could build a seven eleven in space for refueling.

• 37:09Lewis Howes?

  That's crazy. Okay. It sounds like you're up to some big things. I love this. If you could extend your life 100 years beyond its expected lifespan, would you want to do that?

• 37:23Speaker 01

  Unquestionably.

• 37:26Lewis Howes?

  Why?

• 37:29Speaker 01

  There's an infinite supply of knowledge and skills to acquire that I I find the greatest happiness when I'm learning and what I'm doing.

• 37:42Lewis Howes?

  What about when you're being?

• 37:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, I suppose that's something I should probably get better at because

• 37:51Lewis Howes?

  We are human beings.

• 37:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:55Speaker 01

  It's a funny topic, though, because, for example, like, human life extension is a very controversial thing, and I didn't realize this initially. I mean, if I were to ask some of the question, do you want to live tomorrow? Yes. Do you want to live next week? Yes. Next month? Yes. Five years from now? Yes. Okay, at what point in time are you going to wake up and say, I just don't want to live? Well, I mean, maybe if someone's really decrepit and old, but I mean, people, I think most people enjoy living. But when we bring up this topic of, do you want to extend healthy life to 120? People say, well, there's already too many of us on the earth. 70 years is totally adequate to live. People break down in society. So I mean, I think it's a it's a great point, and it's a really viable conversation that we just fundamentally have disagreement on what is good and what is desirable,

• 38:39Speaker 01

  which I think is all the more relevant as we're playing with these really powerful technologies that allow us to create radically different worlds than what we're seeing today.

• 38:48Lewis Howes?

  That's interesting. Who's the oldest person to live right now? Do you know?

• 38:54Speaker 01

  I don't. The number 123 sticks in my mind, but that's a guess.

• 38:59Lewis Howes?

  That's crazy. You know, another it's crazy how how long we've been able to extend our lifespan in the last, you know, 50 years, just with all the health practices we're following. What do you believe is the main components of extending life naturally?

• 39:17Speaker 01

  So the this company I've invested in, the biggest, one of the biggest breakthroughs we had in in our longevity was a couple hundred years ago with germ theory, when we figured out bacteria caused infection. And then we we made vaccinations and sterilization and that basically extended healthy human life, I believe, from like mid 40s to mid 70s. It was a radical extension. And that is now backfiring on us a little bit because now we have superbugs and and so we've used too many antibiotics and whatnot. But this company is using the power of genomics, our genome and machine learning to figure out how we can actually work with our own biology

• 39:56Speaker 01

  to cure age-related diseases and style either slow or reverse the aging process. So I think that we will create natural biological tools that will have the potential of radically extending our lives.

• 40:13Lewis Howes?

  I love this. I've got a few questions left for you that I want to ask. I want to make sure we respect our time. This has been powerful so far. But before I ask those questions, what is the main place that we should be connecting with you online or that you want us to stay up to date with? You know, where can we find you the best?

• 40:33Speaker 01

  Primarily on Twitter. I'm at Brian underscore Johnson with a Y.

• 40:39Lewis Howes?

  Okay, awesome. And make sure to check out Brian's site as well. I'll have this all linked up in the show notes for you guys, but check out everything he's doing. It's extraordinary. A few final questions, Brian, and I really appreciate your time and your wisdom here. If you could have, you know, let's say you're 200 years old, it's the last day for you, and you get to leave behind three books to the world. That would be the books that you say everyone needs to read these. What would those three books be?

• 41:09Speaker 01

  I would say Ernest Shackleton's Voyage, Endurance. So the book is, I think, is called Endurance, Shackleton's Epic Voyage. And it's a trans-Imperial Antarctic explorer. And the book is of value to me because it teaches, it tells the story of one of the most audacious adventures ever undertaken and the tenaciousness that they maintained in surviving. And so the, the, the goal, the, the message to me, the moral stories for me is that we

• 41:50Speaker 01

  can dare to do audacious things and we can be bold in our endeavors. And that when we inevitably encounter difficulties and heartbreak and setback, that we can overcome them with perseverance. And then two, I'd probably say A Good Man, a book written by Mark Schreiber, by his dad, Sarge Schreiber, who served in, I think, both the Johnson and Kennedy administrations. And he was a driving force behind the Peace Corps. It's, his son is writing a letter to his father about, what a good man. It's basically it's a love letter to his father about what a remarkable human being he was, to his children, to his friends, his coworkers, professionally.

• 42:34Speaker 01

  It's such a touching book about what a powerful force a good human being can have in this world. And it's a reminder to me of what I would like to contribute to the world. I wonder what my children will say about me. Will I have had a value in their life? Will I have been meaningful that I, I was there when they needed me? And I think third, Viktor Frankl's, I think Man's Search for Meaning, or Man's Search for Meaning. And I think the, my, what I like about that book is the driving principle of my life. Is that we literally have the ability to author our existence. And that's very true for entrepreneurs. We can start whatever companies we want, hire whatever people we desire, the culture we create, the product we build, we can literally author our own world.

• 43:18Speaker 01

  In fact, I have a mural in my office. I commissioned a artist to paint this, a graffiti artist to paint it. And Gandalf is on one side and Harry Potter is on the other. And they're pointing their staff and their wand in the middle with this exploding energy. And there's this open book with a pen. And above it is the word dream written in graffiti. And I use these characters because they resonate with my children. But the idea is that J R Tolkien and J K Rowling use the tools of words to literally create words, worlds out of nothing that we've all inhabited. And the issue is have the power to do it. And Viktor Frankl's book is a reminder that we can author our world, even when we think the most dire circumstances would be superimposed upon us. We have that power.

• 44:02Speaker 01

  And so the three of them combined would compel me to pursue audacious things, to author my own existence and to be, try to be an exceptional human being to all those around me.

• 44:13Lewis Howes?

  Hmm, that is a great response. I love that. Thank you for those three books. I'm gonna have to check out your painting as well in your office sometime. Next time I'm in New York, I'm gonna have to come sneak in and check it out. That sounds incredible. What are you most grateful for in your life recently?

• 44:32Speaker 01

  I'd say the opportunity to work on hard things. I crave hard work. I crave hard problems. And I'm just grateful that I get a shot at working on things that I find meaningful. And even if I fell, I feel fulfilled and motivated and energized by the opportunity to try to do something meaningful.

• 45:00Lewis Howes?

  And if you could, and again, it's, you're 200 years old right now, and if you could leave behind three truths, three things you know to be true about the world where everything you've ever created has been erased and removed from time, but you got to leave behind these three truths, what would you write down on a piece of paper and give to the world?

• 45:21Speaker 01

  Author your existence, care without restraint, and pursue with audaciousness the boldest idea you can conceive.

• 45:33Lewis Howes?

  Hmm, those are three powerful truths. Thanks for sharing that. I've got one final question for you, Brian. Before I do, I want to acknowledge you for a moment. I want to acknowledge you for your passion and your relentless pursuit of chasing the hard things down and giving of your time and energy. You are one of the biggest humble servants there is by going after these hard things that no one else really wants to tackle. Maybe just a handful of people are tackling, and you're putting yourself in challenging situations on a day-to-day basis to strive to learn more, to get better, so that you can impact

• 46:15Lewis Howes?

  the world in a powerful, meaningful way. So I acknowledge you for everything you're up to, and it's been a pleasure to connect. I have one final question for you, and I want to make sure everyone goes back and follows Brian on Twitter and everywhere else online, because he's up to amazing things. The final question is, what's your definition of greatness?

• 46:37Speaker 01

  Whatever one wants to assign to it. I don't, I don't believe there's, I don't believe there's a single answer to that. I believe it's created in everyone's minds and lives.

• 46:47Lewis Howes?

  Okay. Do you have your definition?

• 46:50Speaker 01

  I know the things that make me happy and bring me fulfillment, but those are not things I'd want to superimpose on someone else and suggest to them, that that's the metric by which they would be happy and fulfilled.

• 47:04Lewis Howes?

  Okay. We'll leave it at that. Brian Johnson, I appreciate you so much for coming on, my man. This has been a pleasure. It's been a gift, and I'm so inspired by your vision and your message, and I, I hope to connect with you in person soon, my friend.

• 47:19Speaker 01

  Thank you very much. I really appreciate. This has been a fantastic conversation. Thank you.

• 47:24Lewis Howes?

  There you have it guys. I hope you enjoyed this episode as much as I thoroughly enjoyed it. Brian was a pleasure having him on and learning about his triumphs, his struggles, and everything in between, and his vision for the future inspires me to become better at what I'm currently doing in my life. So, big thank you to Brian for coming on. Make sure to spread the message about Brian and about this episode using the link LewisHowes.com/219. You can get all the show notes, all the information about Brian there, back at LewisHowes.com/219. Again, make sure to share this with your friends as I know they'll be inspired to hear this. But again, thank you everyone for being here. This has been one of the most exciting

• 48:07Lewis Howes?

  things I've ever done in my life, is getting to spend time with these incredible human beings, learn about what it takes to be great from them, and then share it with all of you. And it's because of all of you listening right now that this is possible. So, from the bottom of my heart, I want to thank you. I appreciate you. I appreciate you trusting me with your time, because I know there are thousands of podcasts out there and you decide to spend your time on this podcast, and it really means a lot to me. And it makes me just hungrier to make this better and find inspiring people for you to keep wanting to come back. So, thank you guys from the bottom of my heart. I love you, and you know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great.