#2350 - Ryan Callaghan

Ryan “Cal” Callaghan is MeatEater’s Director of Conservation, a national board member of Backcountry Hunters & Anglers, and the host of the “Cal’s Week in Review” podcast.www.themeateater.com/people/ryan-callaghan Get anything delivered on Uber Eats. https://UberEats.com This video is sponsored by BetterHelp. Visit https://BetterHelp.com/JRE Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  The Joe Rogan Experience.

• 0:05Joe Rogan?

  Training by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day. We brought you in here, hopefully, we were gonna kill that public land sale deal from the big, beautiful bill, and we did it.

• 0:23Speaker 02

  We did it.

• 0:24Joe Rogan?

  Before we even got you in here.

• 0:25Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, we're not out of the woods yet, is the reality, yeah. I mean, we're...I was hoping that you and I were gonna, we're gonna team up and tee off on these sons of bitches and watch it die together.

• 0:40Joe Rogan?

  I think it's dead.

• 0:42Speaker 02

  That would've been ideal.

• 0:43Joe Rogan?

  I think it's dead.

• 0:44Speaker 02

  It is dead. It is dead, but we're a long way from this stuff being...

• 0:48Joe Rogan?

  Dead ever.

• 0:49Speaker 02

  Dead ever.

• 0:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 0:51Speaker 02

  Right, exactly.

• 0:52Joe Rogan?

  It's gotta be dead forever. That's not, it's not theirs to sell. It's very unique to the United States. It's an amazing thing that we have, and I don't think people in other countries understand this. I don't think people in America even understand how unique it is. Like, our public lands, what they did when they set that up, not just national parks, but all the public lands, we created this insane resource, this beautiful resource, where we can go into the mountains, into the woods, and enjoy nature, and it's ours. It's all of ours.

• 1:23Speaker 02

  And I get, I mean, the amount of response from listeners that live outside the country, and to a person, they're like, "Are you guys really gonna screw this up?"

• 1:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:34Speaker 02

  They're like, "How do people not know? How do people not appreciate what you guys have? Don't turn into this country, or this country, or this country." Basically, any other country outside of Canada and the US.

• 1:47Joe Rogan?

  I think the real issue is the people in America that don't experience it, and don't go there, and don't know how insanely unique this situation is. Like, I don't know how to say Chamath's last name, Polyoptia? Is that how you say it? Even he was tweeting, "This is a great deal, sell the land, and, you know, we'll make some money." Like, what the fuck are you talking about, man? Like, you know, you don't understand. Like, this was an incredible gift that they gave us when they set America up this way.

• 2:19Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, and...

• 2:24Speaker 02

  It's not that they need to go out and experience. They can also understand just where food comes from, right? How we get cold water and fresh water in our taps. That public resource is working on our behalf 24/7, 365, always has been and always will be as long as we don't screw it up, right? So it's not just the recreational part of it. It is, I mean, it is no different than, if you want to think of it in these terms, than some, you know, one-armed jack pumping oil out of the ground. Like, it is constantly working on our behalf.

• 3:04Speaker 02

  And it, it being public land, needs to be intact, an intact ecosystem to do its job. And there's less and less of it every year. So, like, for instance, right, like, America's grasslands, we're leaving, we are losing 2 million acres, and grasslands are kind of like a catch-all phrase a little bit, but it'd be like sagebrush ecosystem, short grass prairie, mixed grass prairie, but we're losing 2 million acres a year. It's the most threatened ecosystem, not just in the US, but in the entire planet, and people are like, "Oh, it's just grass." How are we losing that? Development. Really?

• 3:49Speaker 02

  Well, there's development, but also encroachment of tree species. So, cedars, junipers, stuff like that, working their way back out on to the prairie, to the plain. And we used to have all these natural deforesters out there, bison, that wouldn't allow those trees to grow, because they like rubbing up on stuff and they'll destroy them. So, you know, millions of bison out there, physically removing or preventing that tree encroachment onto the plain. Those trees are sucking water out of the ground, making it more arid, more dry. Water table goes down. You lose a lot of species diversification and...

• 4:38Speaker 02

  People just do not know, Joe. They just don't know. And they look at it and they're like, it's just grass.

• 4:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I never knew that it was 2 million acres a year. How many acres in the United States?

• 4:48Speaker 02

  About 2.23 billion acres in the US.

• 4:54Joe Rogan?

  So, that, that's a lot. Like, 2 million acres a year is a lot.

• 4:59Speaker 02

  2 million acres a year is a lot. And like, I was hacking on Jamie for his golf swing, right?

• 5:05Joe Rogan?

  Jamie's got a solid golf swing. You gotta leave him alone.

• 5:08Speaker 03

  That's about all I got is the golf swing.

• 5:09Joe Rogan?

  Leave him alone. He can, he can swing. Jamie, what's the longest drive you've ever hit?

• 5:14Speaker 03

  I've hit it over, I mean, 310, whatever, 305.

• 5:17Joe Rogan?

  That's legit as fuck.

• 5:18Speaker 03

  But I've done it.

• 5:18Joe Rogan?

  That's legit, right? I don't play golf, but I, I think that's pretty legit.

• 5:22Speaker 02

  I'm nodding my head because I'm like, yeah, I have no idea. 300s.

• 5:26Speaker 03

  They've set someone up to hit over 600 yards before, but that's like with the wind and the elevation and... Elevation helps a lot.

• 5:34Joe Rogan?

  Right, like Montana or something like that.

• 5:36Speaker 03

  I could hit it 400 yards in Montana.

• 5:37Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 5:38Speaker 03

  I have on the simulator.

• 5:39Speaker 02

  Ooh.

• 5:40Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's interesting. Simulator, oh, the simulator accounts for that?

• 5:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, but you don't have to dodge bears on the simulator.

• 5:47Speaker 02

  2 million acres of golf courses in the US.

• 5:50Joe Rogan?

  Is there?

• 5:50Speaker 02

  2 million acres.

• 5:51Joe Rogan?

  Okay, so that's a good way to look at it. Like, all the golf courses in the United States get lost every year in grassland.

• 5:58Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 5:58Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 5:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:00Joe Rogan?

  Wow, that's a good way to put it, right?

• 6:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. And so we talk in, as far as like the public estate, right? We have 640 million acres is the, the number that you hear all the time. 83 million of those are national parks. But thanks to the great state of Alaska, you can hunt inside the boundary of some national parks up there to the tune of about like 43 million acres, big, big chunks, right?

• 6:26Speaker 02

  And then you, you know, remove a little for structures, roads, you know, we have over 400,000 miles of road on Forest Service and BLM ground.

• 6:38Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 6:40Speaker 02

  I mean, it's a lot, a lot, right? And then when we get into like talking about like the budgeting of things, like BLM, Forest Service, they're maintaining a lot of stuff that people take for granted.

• 6:54Speaker 02

  And then, you know, so we're down to like 580 million acres of what I would consider like usable. And then you consider what those acres can actually produce, right? Which, you know, if you go to a super arid state, you need a lot more land to support like mammal ungulate type life than you do in a state that's got a lot more water. Yeah, that's growing a lot of, a lot of food in a smaller amount of space, right? So to make things palatable for people, we're always doing the work of like dumbing things down, dumbing down the messaging.

• 7:38Speaker 02

  And yeah, you're right, like people don't know. They don't know because we try to distill things into like all public land, right? But it is so diverse, which is what makes it amazing. And that diversity provides all this opportunity. And one of the things that, that people need to keep in mind is we have nothing but bad examples. All these other countries have gone the complete opposite way of what we have now. And one of America's largest exports is hunters. Like we, we send hunters all over the world to support these other economies. And what we have here at home is insanely valuable.

• 8:23Speaker 02

  And it just becomes more and more valuable because we have large intact ecosystems that you just more and more cannot find anywhere else, right?

• 8:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. And I just, I wish more people appreciated it. I wish more people experienced it. There's just too many people that just are landlocked. And when I mean by landlocked, I mean in cities, urban locked is probably the best term for it. There's just too many people that just don't go out. They don't, they don't know how amazing it is. It's like, I always say that it's, it's like a vitamin that you didn't know you needed. You know, you get out into the real wild, the real woods. It's a, it's a, it's some kind of a nutrient that you didn't know you needed. This episode is brought to you by Visible. As fall hits, we enter another season of change. Time to shift gears, drop the dead weight and upgrade the wardrobe for the drop in temperature.

• 9:19Joe Rogan?

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• 10:03Joe Rogan?

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• 10:48Joe Rogan?

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• 12:06Speaker 02

  Oh, man, I was just up on, uh, went up to the Arctic, went up to Arctic National Wildlife Refuge to check that place out. And 24 hours of sun, right? Land of the midnight sun, uh, never gets dark. And I was the only person on that trip who didn't bring like some sort of an eye cover to sleep with. And, and I just can't tell you like how hard and good I slept up there, like.

• 12:34Joe Rogan?

  Really? Even without eye cover?

• 12:35Speaker 02

  Drooling all over myself, and it's just clean air and lots of space, man. It was magical, magical.

• 12:45Joe Rogan?

  How do you sleep with no eye cover?

• 12:47Speaker 02

  I swear to God, Joe, man, when it was time to go to bed, and it started out like, bed was at 10:30, and then bed was at 2:30 in the morning, and then bed was 3:00 a.m. Um, cause you would get, as that sun's kinda like making this low orbit. I'm sure you've seen like the time lapses of the sun like kind of does a little dip.

• 13:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 13:08Speaker 02

  You get this like hazy gorgeous light that you just wanted to stay up and and see.

• 13:16Speaker 02

  But I'd close my eyes and and I could see like the sun going down to darkness and in my brain. So it was just time to go to bed. It was really bizarre. And then if I had to wake up for something, it was bright light and I couldn't figure out why. Yeah, but I mean, it was so cathartic, man. Like, we've been running so hard. And because of this public lands battle that we've been in. I think most people are like, oh, God, it just popped up last week and then we crushed it and big win. And a little larger group of people or smaller group of people is like, oh, it started in the house about six weeks ago. And then there's a real small group of people who are like.

• 14:01Speaker 02

  August 24th. The state of Utah. Submitted a lawsuit.

• 14:10Speaker 02

  For the United States Supreme Court. To take 18 and a half million acres of BLM land in Utah. August 2024. Is when. We were like, oh, my God, we got to be on top of this. This is what's coming. Trump's gonna win the election. It's gonna set all these things up and we're gonna be in this fight.

• 14:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 14:35Speaker 02

  And people were like. I don't even know why you're talking about this. This isn't a big deal. I'm like, oh, it is a big deal. This is happening.

• 14:43Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's such a slippery slope, too. This is what people don't know or don't appreciate. If you say, oh, it's only like 1 million acres. We'll sell off 1 million acres. It'll help fix the debt. No, it's not. The debt's $37 trillion. It's you're not gonna fix the debt by selling off public land. And if you open up that slippery slope to these fucking vampire developers. They're gonna keep doing it. They're gonna keep sucking on that blood until there's nothing left, until it's just the national parks. Oh, we preserved Yellowstone. Oh, great.

• 15:14Speaker 02

  And in that, quite literally, you know, like Mike Lee is like the figurehead of this right now. He's on the record saying, we're gonna sell everything. We need to sell everything. That's the plan. We're gonna retain the national parks. And maybe a couple of other things.

• 15:36Joe Rogan?

  Boo.

• 15:36Speaker 02

  Like, and he's been on the record for damn near 20 years saying this stuff.

• 15:41Joe Rogan?

  What is, who's paying him?

• 15:44Speaker 02

  There's a lot, there's a lot there, right? Like where he grew up in Utah, there's a lot of like, um.

• 15:50Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's where Chappett is from, right?

• 15:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:52Joe Rogan?

  And he was the, he was the guy we were fighting a few years ago.

• 15:55Speaker 02

  Exactly, yeah. I mean, that's exactly why I dug this shirt out, Joe.

• 16:00Joe Rogan?

  I got one of those somewhere.

• 16:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, I wore this shirt on your show the last time this shit was happening.

• 16:06Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 16:07Speaker 02

  Right?

• 16:07Joe Rogan?

  That's right. It was happening back then. That was like, what, five years ago?

• 16:11Speaker 02

  Oh, I mean, you were still in California and then it was.

• 16:14Joe Rogan?

  Five years ago, I moved here. So it had to be six or seven years ago.

• 16:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. Right? And it's just, it's cyclical.

• 16:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 16:22Speaker 02

  And I swear to God, people didn't pay attention to this Utah lawsuit. We were, I went back to DC for, you know, Steve's on the board for Teddy Roosevelt Conservation Partnership, TRCP. Um, they have a, a policy meeting that I tried to go to, uh, twice, two or three times a year. And, um, where I was in there with all these people that are super smart and went to school for all this stuff. And a couple of us were like, why is nobody, why is nobody talking about this? Why is nobody concerned about this? And then this idea of selling public lands got really conflated with like, oh my God.

• 17:03Speaker 02

  If you talk about anything that's going on with the federal government, you're anti-Trump. And it was just this ultra politicized hot potato. We're like, no, no, no, public lands, they're for everybody. Like this is a nonpartisan thing. We've been talking about it since August. Here's this lawsuit.

• 17:23Speaker 02

  Like, they're selling land that belongs to everybody, doesn't matter what state you're in. And then, like, the next domino fell, and a bunch of states and counties signed on an amicus brief for that Utah lawsuit, which is like a friend of the court filing, because they wanted to get in, like, stuff's going up for free or cheap fire sale, they wanted to be in on it. And then, the next domino fell, which was, uh, oh, Mike Lee's getting pulled into the White House, and he's cutting deals, and we know exactly what's on his mind. And

• 18:08Speaker 02

  it was literally just like this opening in the world where nobody's talking about 18 and a half million acres. So, what if we started talking about 200 million acres? Or 500 million acres? And it just like totally kicked the door open to this whole enchilada fire sale. Um, and had the dude not been as greedy, people may not have gotten as fired up about it. But, you know, kind of thank God he did.

• 18:40Joe Rogan?

  So who's paying him?

• 18:41Speaker 02

  Man, I think, and I'm not an expert on this, there's, there's some like real, uh, ideology here, like Mormon church ideology. Um, you know, there's like a billion people in the Mormon church, so not everybody thinks like this.

• 18:58Joe Rogan?

  There's a billion?

• 18:59Speaker 02

  I don't know what that number is, there's a lot. It's, wasn't it like the, the most fastest growing religion there for a while?

• 19:07Joe Rogan?

  Is it because you get extra chicks? What is the deal?

• 19:10Speaker 02

  There's a lot of pretty people. There's a lot of pretty people, man. That's a hook, for sure.

• 19:15Joe Rogan?

  Well, I have a friend who lives in Salt Lake, and he said that, like, they'll literally send hot girls to try to recruit people.

• 19:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:22Joe Rogan?

  Like, they knock on your door and they're hot.

• 19:26Speaker 02

  I mean, I can't blame him for going with what works, right?

• 19:28Joe Rogan?

  They're also, i- i- is in terms of like, it's a weird religion, right? Cause here, what's the number here? Seventeen million. Global membership.

• 19:39Speaker 02

  Global membership, right.

• 19:40Joe Rogan?

  Global seventeen million, so you were off by a few hundred million.

• 19:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, a few hundred million, yeah. Yeah.

• 19:46Joe Rogan?

  Oh, in twenty twenty-four, they reached a twenty-seven year high. Wow, significant surge in, in co- uh, convert baptisms in twenty twenty-four. I wonder what, uh, those hot girls going door to door.

• 19:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:57Joe Rogan?

  Um, but there's this idea. They're the nicest people. They are the fucking nicest. Mormons are the nicest. Uh, I had a few neighbors that were Mormons when I lived in California. They're my favorite people. Like, out of all the people in a weirdo religion.

• 20:11Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 20:13Joe Rogan?

  This episode is brought to you by Uber Eats. Summer is here and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber Eats. What do I mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well-groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken parmigiana delivered. A day in the sun? No, a bottle of rum? Yes, Uber Eats can definitely get you that for almost, almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details.

• 20:49Speaker 02

  I got, uh, asked, I was fishing down in Louisiana. It was a super, uh, grumpy old fishing guide. And he's like, hey, Cal Han. What do you think about Muslims? And I, I kinda put the fly rod down for a second and I was like.

• 21:04Joe Rogan?

  Where are we going? Where are we going with this?

• 21:06Speaker 02

  I was like, like, all of them?

• 21:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 21:09Speaker 02

  I'm like, there's a lot of Muslims, bud, like, all, all of them. I'm like, what do you think about Louisianans? Like all of them. Right. Right? I'm like, come on, bud. How you gonna do that? Yeah. Yeah. What, what? I'm sure there's some really good ones and I'm sure there's some real bad ones and everything in between. Like all humans. Yeah, kinda like all humans. So on the Mormon church side of things, there's, um, you know, there's some doctrine, some church doctrine that says that the land is put here for the benefit of the people. And you're basically, and I'm very much paraphrasing here, you're spiting God if you're not developing

• 21:51Speaker 02

  that land for profit, like for the profit of the people. And so there is a, a strong theory that Mike Lee is... Is he Mormon? Yes. Is so indoctrinated into this part of the church that this is like his divine mission. Oh, that's a problem. Right? And so it, yeah, I mean, it's religious zealotry, right? Yeah. I was not aware of that. And so...

• 22:24Speaker 02

  But again, like, that doesn't have to be representative of the entire religion. And to the people that I hang out with that are Mormon, it's absolutely not, right? They, they're like, public lands that are set aside for multiple use. Don't get locked up, don't get developed in certain ways are the best thing, right? But, and this is something that just like has gotta get talked about. Mike Lee is like very much in power. He is the chair, he's a senior senator. He is the chair of the Energy and Natural Resources Committee in the Senate. And...

• 23:08Speaker 02

  Like I said, he starts getting drug into the White House, he starts consolidating power, and he starts telling everybody, "Hey, I'm gonna put this amendment in, and you better not go against it, or else for the next six years," which is technical, as long as Republicans stay in power, he's not gonna lose his chairmanship of the Energy and Natural Resources Committee. As long as he's there, none of their stuff is gonna be read, because it's the chair that decides what they're gonna review, what they're gonna look at,

• 23:46Speaker 02

  and what they're gonna pass. So, here's this dude who is leveraging everything for his personal thing. And he had his shot, and he took it, and fortunately, people started cluing in, and there was enough of an on-ramp that there was a blowback literally in every state, all 50 states. People wrote in to first their representatives, then their senators, and it created enough of a, "Oh my god, this is going to set back the entire big beautiful

• 24:25Speaker 02

  bill." This is only one part of the dumpster fire that is the big beautiful bill, but it's gonna take this whole thing off the tracks, and that's why it's killed. Now, Lee issued a statement, which is like a gut shot, if you're in my position, who've been like tracking this thing, you know, since August, and, you know, it said, "Oh, I listened to the American people," right? Well, he rewrote the language, he and his team, his staff rewrote the language four different times to get it passed the Senate parliamentarian. It did pass.

• 25:10Speaker 02

  And you don't do that if you're listening to the American people, right? The American people, by the end of this, were very united in saying, "Not one acre." It started as "Not one acre" in the budget reconciliation process, which is, you know, part of what they're doing here in the big, beautiful bill, or is what they're doing. And the phrasing there really matters, right? Like, we have systems in place for land sales, legal framework, those, both of those, you know, it's acronyms, government acronyms, FLITMA, FLITNA.

• 25:54Speaker 02

  And the revenues from land sales go back into acquiring land of greater value. There's all these acts since 1781, all of these acts for the disposal of federally managed land, and that, those two that I named are the most recent, and they're designed to maybe not retain the same acreage, but provide the most value to the American people. And what Lee was doing in this reconciliation process was completely circumventing that,

• 26:34Speaker 02

  and as you mentioned, like, nobody, no citizen of the United States is going to feel any change from dumping $100 million into the federal treasury right now. And that's where the money was going.

• 26:53Joe Rogan?

  Wow. Hmm. So, going forward, in the future, how do we make sure that this never happens again? Do we have to just keep doing this every few years when it comes up?

• 27:06Speaker 02

  Well, yeah, I mean, and that's, that's the like the best thing that could have come out of this. Like, we are gonna make, we made this huge stink, right, from all the different buckets that politicians pay attention to, right? All the different user groups, Democrats, Republicans, independents, everybody came together. And more than likely, a shitload of people, the 36% of Americans who didn't vote in the last election, probably chose to spoke, speak up, some large percentage of them, and said, no public land sales. Hopefully, that created enough of, you know, what they call in Washington is like a third

• 27:47Speaker 02

  rail issue. It's like, doesn't matter what side of the aisle you're on, you can't have this as part of your agenda because you're gonna get shot down. Right? That's, that's like, the, the near term win, because that feeling won't last forever.

• 28:03Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 28:03Speaker 02

  There's a piece of legislation out of Ryan Zinke's office, who's our Montana congressman, and he was actually, started as Secretary of the Interior under Trump in his first term. Zinke has this Public Lands and Public Hands Act, and it would not have prevented what just happened, this budget reconciliation thing. But it does, puts more guardrails around the sale of federally managed land. And that would be like a really positive thing. However,

• 28:45Speaker 02

  just like I explained, like Mike Lee's position in the Senate, it would have to get through him. Like, it's got, he's got to be circumvented. There's no way he's gonna vote for something like this. And it's got to go through the House, and everything I've heard about in, on the House committees, is there's some people there that don't want to see this thing happen. So...

• 29:10Speaker 02

  More people are signing on to the Public Lands and Public Hands Act, which is awesome show of support. Senator Heinrich out of New Mexico's got it written for the Senate. No Republican co-sponsors. He needs Republican co-sponsors in the Senate just to get the ball rolling there.

• 29:30Speaker 02

  But we still have like these knuckleheads that are saying, "If you didn't vote for my thing, I won't let a single good thing happen for the next six years." It goes, you know, provided they don't get removed somehow, somewhere.

• 29:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's really interesting when you see these bills. Because these bills are like, I think they read the entire bill on the floor and it took 14 hours? And no one was there. They just read it to an empty audience because nobody sat around for 14 hours. So what was it, 900 pages?

• 30:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 30:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:06Joe Rogan?

  It's just like, who's, how are you signing off on things that I know you're not reading? Like, how crazy is that? That this is a part of our process of government? Is that they pass these bills that have all sorts of weird shit piled into them? Good things and bad things altogether. And you have to figure out like, how much of the bad stuff do you allow because you want the good stuff? And they all have to make these weird shady fucking deals.

• 30:34Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, I got that text, the official text. You know, essentially as soon as it came out and

• 30:44Speaker 02

  public land sales were page 202. So I just went straight to page 202 and read through the new language to see what, because it was another revision by Mike Lee to see if he could get that thing passed.

• 30:59Speaker 02

  It was just typical crap. Like, he's not listening to anybody. He's still pushing his agenda.

• 31:06Joe Rogan?

  So when he revised it, what were the revisions and why did he put those revisions in?

• 31:11Speaker 02

  So he started at US Forest Service land and BLM land.

• 31:17Joe Rogan?

  Which would be how many acres all told?

• 31:20Speaker 02

  Well, it would have been a possible like 500 million acres area.

• 31:29Speaker 02

  In 11 western states, and I want to say it would have been 2 to 3 million acres actually sold within 5 years. So you're identifying out of 500 million, then you're narrowing it down to 2 to 3 million acres of Forest Service and BLM land. And then, you know, he says it's for housing. It's for housing.

• 31:58Joe Rogan?

  But a lot of that is nowhere near development.

• 32:00Speaker 02

  A lot of it's nowhere near development and the language of the text, even on the very last revision, where he's supposed to be listening to American peoples, and he did throw in the word hunters there. Hunters, I'm listening to you. It says, like Bullet Point 1, must be near existing infrastructure. And then Bullet Point number 7, I think it was, was like, or very far away and hard to manage. Right?

• 32:29Joe Rogan?

  Which is all the rest.

• 32:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, so, like, somewhere in between here.

• 32:34Joe Rogan?

  That's so crazy. That's such a crazy piece of language. Or far away and hard to manage. So all of it.

• 32:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. Like, it just-

• 32:44Joe Rogan?

  It's so vague.

• 32:46Speaker 02

  He wants to get it through. And then, there's super fun language in there, too, where it's like, okay, right, if your first refusal is going to be state, then local government, through tribes in there, and then the only other group would have been landowners within the checkerboard pattern, how we have like that, you know, grid system of federal land ownership and private land ownership. Those landowners could also purchase more than anybody else would have been allowed to purchase.

• 33:26Speaker 02

  So state, local, then your tribes and local landowners. So basically, like, a huge handout to, you know, like, you know, the corner crossing case that we've been talking about, right? Iron Bar Holdings?

• 33:44Speaker 02

  They would have just purchased all those checkerboard pieces. And would have been legally allowed to do that.

• 33:48Joe Rogan?

  Corner crossing to people. So what corner crossing is, is like say if there's an enormous piece of public land, but the only way you can get to it is to cross over a very small corner of private land. For the longest time that was prohibited and you would get arrested.

• 34:04Speaker 02

  You could, yeah.

• 34:04Joe Rogan?

  You'd get arrested for trespassing. And we're talking about like a couple of feet.

• 34:10Speaker 02

  Oh, not, I mean, not, we're talking about something so small you can't even possibly see it, right? That's, that's why it's been, it's like a theory, right? It's, it's like for all the physics majors out there, right? It's like that game of like, well, how do you get someplace if you only go 50% of the way? Right? You'll, you keep going 50% and 50% and 50%. It's like a, a theory. Whereas in reality, like all it is is a footstep. Like you're gonna cross that corner in a footstep and we know where corners come together because it's right here. But that theory thing is like, well, the, and then the airspace

• 34:51Speaker 02

  all the way down to the center of the earth and to the heavens is how it's written.

• 34:56Joe Rogan?

  The crazy thing is like you could legitimately do it in a hop. So you would never have stepped foot at all.

• 35:04Speaker 02

  True. My 97-year-old grandma who's hooked up to an oxygen tank could have stepped across. Like, I mean, it's, we're not talking about a feet of any sort.

• 35:16Joe Rogan?

  We're not talking about like a football field that you have to cross.

• 35:19Speaker 02

  No.

• 35:20Joe Rogan?

  No, we're talking about like a couple inches.

• 35:22Speaker 02

  Yep. So just like,

• 35:23Joe Rogan?

  Which is so nuts.

• 35:24Speaker 02

  Oh, it's, it's infuriating is what it is. So just like on your, your checkerboard at home, pick any four corners that come together where the two reds, imagine those are public and the two blacks are private.

• 35:37Joe Rogan?

  There you go. Beautiful. Explain it right there. So those little tiny spots in the corner you were not supposed to cross.

• 35:45Speaker 02

  Right.

• 35:46Joe Rogan?

  Which is so crazy.

• 35:47Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 35:48Joe Rogan?

  That is so bananas that that was a real issue.

• 35:51Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 35:52Joe Rogan?

  And look at this, no trespassing.

• 35:54Speaker 02

  Yeah. And so that's really interesting.

• 35:56Joe Rogan?

  That's the corner right there.

• 35:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:58Joe Rogan?

  Isn't that nuts? Like that little spot, no trespassing. That little tiny gate is all you need. Those two posts that are in the ground, those two signs to prevent people from accessing land that's theirs. So that is where the corner is.

• 36:12Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 36:12Joe Rogan?

  So if you go through that little thing, that little area right there, you're breaking the law, which is fucking insane.

• 36:20Speaker 02

  And now, currently in the state of Wyoming, and I gotta give a shout out to Wyoming backcountry hunters and anglers for, for having the spine, the backbone, to bring this, help bring the people who were caught and prosecuted for corner crossing, uh, you know, and support them financially. We did a ton at Meat Eater 2 to help that legal case. Um, it went to the state court, then the Supreme Court, and then the 9th District Court. And the last I heard is Iron Bar now wants to take it to, you know, the Supreme Court of the United States, SCOTUS.

• 37:06Speaker 02

  And have, which is ultimately really good. Uh, we always joke that we're gonna send old Fred Eschelman, the owner of Iron Bar, like a public landowner t-shirt, because he's gonna make this stuff public for everybody. Uh, cause it's gonna be, right now, there's only two federal cases that have defined corner crossing. They're both in favor of the people of the United States. So you can legally step across, shocking, I know, from one piece of public to the next piece of public. Um, and then if and when this thing makes it to the Supreme Court, the only reason he hasn't filed is because of this stuff with Mike Lee, right? It would've solved all of his problems.

• 37:51Speaker 02

  He would've just purchased those checkerboard pieces of BLM land within his ranch boundaries.

• 37:57Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 37:58Speaker 02

  And just been done with it.

• 37:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 38:00Speaker 02

  Right. And, and that's a really...

• 38:05Speaker 02

  There's a lot of those pieces in a lot of states and states actually fund the ability to trespass for hunting on a lot of those landlocked pieces.

• 38:17Joe Rogan?

  To create easements?

• 38:20Speaker 02

  Yep, exactly, yep. But it's typically done through like the state wildlife agencies where you get an easement so people can go out there. If you've got a conservation license, you can go hunt out there.

• 38:31Joe Rogan?

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• 39:48Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's also today, I could imagine how a long time ago you would get a lot of confusion and it would lead to people trespassing accidentally on public land or on private land, rather, because we're looking at maps, you know, and people would be, you know, 100 yards to the left, 100 yards to the right, and maybe not good navigators. But now, when you have things like GoHunt, OnX, Spartan Forge, all these apps that hunters use now that use GPS, you're 100% accurate.

• 40:23Speaker 02

  Yep. And a lot of the law enforcement agencies are using those same things so they can be on the same page as... The hunter or access seeker, or whatever you want to say.

• 40:34Joe Rogan?

  Super easy to follow.

• 40:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:37Joe Rogan?

  And there's no worries at all about encroaching on private land.

• 40:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, and also, it's like, what's the harm, right? Like, when you sue somebody, you have to establish what the impact is, what the harm is. And in these cases that went to the Supreme Courts, they're like, well, what are the damages?

• 40:58Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 40:58Speaker 02

  Explain to me what the damages are.

• 41:00Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 41:01Speaker 02

  Right? And they really can't, right?

• 41:03Joe Rogan?

  There's no damages. They just don't want hunters on their property. People that have a lot of land, for whatever reason, I guess it's how they acquire a lot of land in the first place, a lot of them are fucking greedy.

• 41:14Speaker 02

  Well, there's some strategic purchasers, right?

• 41:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 41:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:20Joe Rogan?

  But that's a greedy thing. Like, you have 800 acres, and there's this, like, little sliver, and you're like, "No."

• 41:27Speaker 02

  Can't have that.

• 41:28Joe Rogan?

  Mine.

• 41:28Speaker 02

  I know, man.

• 41:29Joe Rogan?

  Mine.

• 41:30Speaker 02

  And then, I mean, there's absolutely wonderful humans on the spectrum.

• 41:36Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 41:37Speaker 02

  This dude that I grew up with, we guided on parts of his place growing up.

• 41:44Speaker 02

  Right when I got my first ever GPS, and the Onex was a card that you inserted into your GPS, he used to come pick me up, so I could open the gates for him, and then he'd just BS, and it was amazing. And we'd drive all over eastern Montana, all on his property, and his name was Leo Solf, Leo Solf. And we came up to this fence line, and I was like,

• 42:11Speaker 02

  I was like, "Leo, did you know that this brand-new fence is 100 feet on your side of the property line?" And this was a whole section, right, so it ran for a mile. And he goes, "Ryan, can't own the whole world." And just didn't say another thing about it, like...

• 42:34Speaker 02

  Not worth me worrying about. Yeah, well, how much, how many acres did he have? Like thirty thousand, probably. That's a rational gentleman. Yeah, exactly, right? Exactly. Somebody fucked up. But there's people, there's people on the other side, too. You know, and that's like that old ranch mentality of like, you know what, there's gonna be a fire? And we're all gonna need to get together and help each other out, and maybe I'll talk to them then about it. Or, you know, whatever, calving season, harvest season, all the things that bring those communities together. These very independent people, um, they gotta work together at different times of the year. And that's like, kind of a beautiful thing. You can only be so much of a dick. Right. Right? Right.

• 43:15Speaker 02

  But then there's that other side now, where it's like, I'm gonna patrol my property from Florida via drone. Oh, God. And I'm gonna hot dial the sheriff's department. Anytime I see anything that looks like, uh, stepping over that property line, right? Whether it's to fix a fence that I'm not there to fix, or get your cattle off of my property, I'm calling the sheriff.

• 43:40Speaker 02

  And that, that exists too. Sure. Right? Yeah. And there's, it's that community breakdown, which is horrifying to me.

• 43:49Speaker 02

  But also, man, like, people don't understand the jobs that these lands do. Right? And like you're saying, like, the urban folks, where that steak comes from? Where their groceries come from? It, it's not the grocery store. Like, there should be an instructional video before you can enter the, the supermarket. You know? Cause it takes space. It takes this land. And we think, people think in terms of like, oh, a million's a big number.

• 44:23Speaker 02

  Let's say we do have six hundred and forty million acres of public land, right? Well, there's like one point two billion acres of land in the US set aside specifically for agriculture. And I think some, like, private timberland falls in that, too. Right? So that's, that's private land. 1.2 billion where the bulk of our food's coming off ideally. Um, on the public land side of the fence, we have grazing leases. Uh, so you can run cattle and sheep on, on public ground. You, you pay a, a minimal, I would say a very minimal fee for that, right?

• 45:03Speaker 02

  Um, and it's based out off of an animal on that ground for a month. Animal unit month, AUM. And on our public ground, that's like a dollar, I want to say it's a dollar 35 per animal unit month. And just in the state of Montana, it just got dropped again, but it, it hit as high as $24 animal unit month. So if you're, have those federal leases, it's a big thing that you want to protect too, right? So you have to, in theory, show that stewardship aspect out there on the, on the public land

• 45:48Speaker 02

  because everybody can come check it out. Um, to retain your ability to keep running cattle out there, sheep or whatever it is.

• 45:57Joe Rogan?

  What, what is going on with that American?

• 46:00Speaker 02

  Prairie?

• 46:01Joe Rogan?

  Savannah, yeah, the American Prairie thing.

• 46:03Speaker 02

  Yeah. So that's in the home state of Montana. Um, I, you know, I wish I could-

• 46:08Joe Rogan?

  Explain that to people.

• 46:08Speaker 02

  Yeah. So basically the fear is it's going to be a privatized national park. Um, that people aren't going to be able to go out on. Well, I don't think that's true. It might be, but I don't think it is.

• 46:22Joe Rogan?

  Explain what it is.

• 46:23Speaker 02

  It is a bunch of private philanthropic dollars, a lot of which is coming from overseas. Uh, I think the, the Dutch have somehow, some way dumped a bunch of cash in there. Um, and it is to connect a bunch of private land and, uh, Bureau of Land Management land out there, BLM, um, into one contiguous chunk.

• 46:56Speaker 02

  Remove as many fences as you can and allow that chunk of prairie to basically revert back to its natural state with natural species, the American buffalo being like their, their, their big goal species, right? They're raising, they've done an incredible job raising cash to get this done. They're, they're purchasing these places. They would say at fair market value, there's a big argument there because they have so much money, they're, they're gonna win a bidding process.

• 47:40Speaker 02

  So is it really fair? Would, is what the, the local ranchers would say. But right now, and knock on wood, for as long as they exist, they're gonna keep providing public access and they have a really good public access program. So they, they can work with the state of Montana for a private land, public access program where, you know, you can sign up either at just like a kiosk type deal, sign in box and walk out on their place. But then they have like yurts that you can rent and they-

• 48:16Joe Rogan?

  So the kiosk is just, it's just set up as you get there?

• 48:19Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 48:20Joe Rogan?

  And you just put in your name and what time you're going there and do you have to have any kind of ID that you put in there?

• 48:26Speaker 02

  No.

• 48:27Joe Rogan?

  Nothing?

• 48:28Speaker 02

  No, no, I mean, the state of Montana one asked for your license plate number and your, your home address and phone number and that's it. So, and then it's, I mean, they, they have a lot of gorgeous ground. Honestly, you know, when we did our, our big float in Montana? They own some of that property now that, that runs right up to the Missouri, right there around Cow Island is kinda where we took out, real close to there. And they, they own, I mean, they own some of the stuff that we hiked around on.

• 49:01Joe Rogan?

  Oh wow.

• 49:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, but their, their, their vision is to have this big contiguous chunk and have it run like, uh, you know, pre-European civilization here on the North American continent.

• 49:17Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 49:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, and it's, I mean, it's gorgeous stuff and, uh, they, they provide for some, uh, buffalo hunts out there. So you can draw a tag and, uh, go out and shoot, uh, a yearling or an old bull. And they give you, it's not like a handhold thing.

• 49:42Joe Rogan?

  When they say an old bull, uh, how do you determine?

• 49:45Speaker 02

  Just by sheer size.

• 49:48Joe Rogan?

  Just size?

• 49:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 49:49Joe Rogan?

  So you have to be experienced. You have to know what you're doing.

• 49:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, and they'll, they'll give you some, some classes and some pointers, but they don't hold your hand and say, hey, come shoot this one. It's like, here's this information.

• 50:02Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 50:03Speaker 02

  Return it when you're done. Rules of the ranch, all that stuff. Go through this gate. Enjoy it. Leave it how you, how you found it type of thing. So, and I've, I've never done it myself, but people have had really fantastic experiences out there doing that. And obviously that's an absolute shitload of meat, right?

• 50:23Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah. And if they do that widespread, like, what is the ultimate goal? Like, how much land are we talking about? And like, are they bringing animals in or are they allowing the existing animals to breed? And like, how are they doing it?

• 50:38Speaker 02

  So, yes, to allowing the existing animals to breed and yes, to bringing the animals in. So, um, they're coming out of the, I think the Yellowstone population more than anything. And then they work with the, the local tribes up there to kind of, uh, bring those animals in and, uh, some go to the tribe and then some go stay on the prairie, I think is how it goes. Um, and then the reason that they're allowing, uh, for these old bulls to be shot is because they're no, they're no longer breeding.

• 51:16Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 51:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:18Joe Rogan?

  It's interesting. Have you, you ever read Dan Flores's piece on American buffalo?

• 51:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:23Joe Rogan?

  Buffalo diplomacy. What was it? Buffalo ecology, buffalo diplomacy?

• 51:27Speaker 02

  Oh, I was, the, I read the American Serengeti.

• 51:32Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 51:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's great, too. The, what, his theory is, and I think it's valid, that the time where they saw millions of buffalo was because the Native Americans had been wiped out by disease. This is the, the idea, is that there was never a time where there were that many bison.

• 51:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:54Joe Rogan?

  And that the reason why there were that many bison was because the Native Americans weren't hunting them anymore, because they were, ninety percent of them were wiped out by disease. That's why, when they, you know, made their way across, and I guess it was like the early eighteen hundreds.

• 52:07Speaker 02

  Oh, like Lewis and Clark.

• 52:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, when they saw millions and millions of bison, the reason for that.

• 52:13Speaker 02

  Was that human predator population was, was in a trough.

• 52:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 52:17Speaker 02

  And it allowed the, the bison to be in a spike.

• 52:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 52:21Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah, because we all.

• 52:22Joe Rogan?

  Completely makes sense.

• 52:23Speaker 02

  Oh, it totally makes sense, yeah. Because, yeah, we always have those conversations about like, when would be the best time to go back, if you could, right? And, um, and also, how could it be that that big, total buffalo population number that always gets thrown out there was really on the landscape?

• 52:46Joe Rogan?

  Right. Like, why wasn't there a balance of predator and prey, where there always is, if it was really natural?

• 52:52Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 52:53Joe Rogan?

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• 54:59Speaker 02

  Oh, it totally, I mean, humans have been stirring the pot forever. That's why it drives me insane when people are like, "Well, before people."

• 55:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, fuck that.

• 55:07Speaker 02

  I'm like, "Well, one that doesn't get us anywhere right now."

• 55:10Joe Rogan?

  Right. "Before people" is the dumbest fucking argument ever. They were here first. Well, this is the argument they use with wolves. You know, like, "They were here first." Like, "Shut the fuck up. Just shut the fuck up. Stop, stop." No, they weren't. First of all, I love people, okay? I'm only concerned with when people were around. So, "Before people," fuck off. You want to kill all the people off so the wolves can run things? Like, what are you even saying?

• 55:34Speaker 02

  Right. What are we gonna learn from a pre-human time?

• 55:37Joe Rogan?

  Doesn't make any sense. And there was obviously some sort of an imbalance that led to these enormous populations of bison. And I think Dan Flores is an incredibly brilliant guy. I think he makes a really compelling argument because we do know... That the Native Americans were wiped out, that 90% of them were killed off by disease. We know that that's, we're talking about millions of people. And if millions of people were subsistence hunters and, you know, they were riding around, living off the buffalo, following them around, which we know they did, completely makes sense. Especially when you take into account the long gestation period, you know, that bison, I think they have to be pregnant for a long time, right?

• 56:17Speaker 02

  Boy, I don't know about that one, but-

• 56:19Joe Rogan?

  Woolly mammoth, I know is a long time.

• 56:20Speaker 02

  I'm sure it was, cause yeah, the African elephants.

• 56:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. I wonder, what is a, what is a buffalo gestation period? Nine months, so like a person.

• 56:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 56:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, very different than like a deer, very different than a lot of other animals.

• 56:38Speaker 02

  I mean, it, it's badass seeing those things out there. Like, I mean, it, it really, really is, cause there's some part of like your, whatever people call it these days, your lizard brain or whatever.

• 56:51Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 56:51Speaker 02

  Where, like, you know that that's their home, right? And then you see that thing on that landscape and something just clicks and you're like, holy shit, man.

• 57:02Joe Rogan?

  Pretty cool.

• 57:03Speaker 02

  Oh, it's, it's amazing.

• 57:04Joe Rogan?

  It's pretty cool just to see him in Yellowstone.

• 57:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 57:07Joe Rogan?

  You know, which is kind of weird. But yeah, the Yellowstone thing is weird. I, I went there a few years back with my family and it's really beautiful and I enjoyed it, but I did not like the fact that all the elk were hanging out at the visitor station.

• 57:19Speaker 02

  You're right.

• 57:19Joe Rogan?

  Cause they know they can't be hunted there and they know the wolves won't go there. It was real weird. They're like so domesticated, they're just like 30 yards away from a fucking vending machine.

• 57:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 57:30Joe Rogan?

  You see this big herd of elk just laying down on the ground, staring at people and people taking selfies with the animals. I'm like, uh, I don't know about this.

• 57:40Speaker 02

  I know, I know, yeah, habituated to shit, as a lot of my biologist friends would say.

• 57:45Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 57:46Speaker 02

  Um, yeah, it's-

• 57:51Speaker 02

  The National Park System, right, is like, it's a absolute wonderful thing.

• 57:57Speaker 02

  I know there's lots of dedicated civil servants within the National Park System that bust their asses educating folks, but they just can't keep up.

• 58:06Joe Rogan?

  Have you ever seen the Instagram page Torons of Yellowstone?

• 58:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, doing God's work right there, yeah.

• 58:14Joe Rogan?

  Darwin in action. If you go to it, it's like people are just getting launched through the air by bison.

• 58:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 58:20Joe Rogan?

  And, God, how do they not know by now? I mean, how do you not know that you can't get close?

• 58:26Speaker 02

  Because of the exact, exact thing you're describing. They're like, oh, it's on the tour.

• 58:32Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 58:33Speaker 02

  Right?

• 58:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 58:34Speaker 02

  It's like, fortunately, they've trained the bison to stand right next to the visitor information sign, or the bull elk, or whatever, right? It's like, this just is the way it's supposed to be.

• 58:47Joe Rogan?

  And then they'll walk right up to it to try to get a selfie.

• 58:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 58:50Joe Rogan?

  It's fucking, here's one. Oh, wow.

• 58:56Joe Rogan?

  Well, that, there's no fucking way that guy should be standing there. If I was that guy, I would be in that car as fast as I could. I'll climb into the passenger side, like, fuck this. Because danger, do not approach wildlife.

• 59:12Speaker 02

  I went up to watch the bison hunting season there in Yellowstone in the gardener entrance, south entrance, or north entrance to the park.

• 59:24Speaker 02

  And a bunch of the tribes were down doing their harvest. And I was riding with Montana Fish Wildlife and Parks, got to do a little ride along. And it was the most successful hunt they've ever had. So this was three years ago now. Tons of snow in the park, some old cow bison decided to just lead everybody out. And there's like hunt rosters, so you draw your bison tag, but then you can also be on a list in case those tags get filled, which they never do, but this year it did happen. And then all the tribes came up for their harvest, and it was amazing.

• 1:00:06Speaker 02

  Like, there were people knocking buffalo down everywhere. And in fact, so many that they had to come up with a system to where they'd be like, okay, between... Daylight and like 9 a.m. Nobody's gonna walk beyond this line. Let every, because let everybody shoot. And then we'll all go out together. And start cutting up bison and get them out of there. And then the next round of hunters can, can have at it. It was like a safety issue.

• 1:00:37Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 1:00:38Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 1:00:39Joe Rogan?

  Is this actually on the park?

• 1:00:41Speaker 02

  No, so this is. It's called the Zone of Tolerance. Which is a creepy, creepy name. If you're asking me, Zone of Tolerance. So, um, all the states, Idaho, Montana, Wyoming. That's around Yellowstone National Park. They, uh, have, the cattle producers have real fears of brucellosis, which is a disease that, that bison and elk, uh, pack around. And it causes domestic cattle to abort calves. So hurts them in the pocketbook, bad deal. Well, they want slash need to reduce bison populations within the park.

• 1:01:26Speaker 02

  Can't hunt inside the park. But at the same time. All the cattleman associations, they don't want those bison coming out of the park. So what do you do? Well, they came up with the Zone of Tolerance idea. Which is a hunting parameter, perimeter around the park. Uh, they remove all the domestic cattle from within that zone. And then the bison, if they come out of the park into that zone. They're fair game for hunters. If they make it beyond that zone somehow, some way. Then anybody can shoot one. And, uh, but, but typically there's like a brand inspector.

• 1:02:10Speaker 02

  There to take care of any bison that make it beyond. The border of the, the Zone of Tolerance.

• 1:02:15Joe Rogan?

  What do you mean by brand inspector? What does that mean?

• 1:02:17Speaker 02

  Uh, cattle brand.

• 1:02:20Speaker 02

  Oh. Yep. Yep. So how does that work? Well, so he's an agent of the state. Uh huh. And he is there to, in this particular case, like, protect the interest of, of the cattleman's associations. Cattle ranchers, right? And so, yeah, somehow, some way, he's authorized to whack those bisonas if they make it beyond. But really what- And what do they do with the meat? Uh, it gets donated to, uh, any one of those, those tribal members that, that's there probably has right of first refusal at least. If not, it goes, would go straight to the food pantry. Yeah. I mean, no, no waste.

• 1:03:03Speaker 02

  And in years past, there's been groups that go up there, um, just to go pull all, anything that's left in the field. The, um, bones, stuff like that for making stock. There's groups that go up there and, and literally like, take the carcasses off the ground, uh, because it is like highly sought after food stuff, right? It's a lot of bone broth you can make with a 2,000 pound critter. Hmm. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. But that was an amazing experience and, and like, the, each tribe brings their own tribal game warden with them. Um, they're kind of like in charge of their people. They're coordinating to maximize the, the harvest.

• 1:03:48Speaker 02

  And, um, so they're, they're helping, very willing to help people, like coordinate to, to get their animal and get out of the field. So they can get the next person in there. And that's, that's part of the system outside of trapping. So they trap inside the park, uh, and then they'll take those animals, move them to a separate facility where they go through, um, uh, I can't remember how long of a period of monitoring for brucellosis. And then once that herd is, the trapped herd is considered brucellosis free, then, um, they can be given to the tribes or sold.

• 1:04:31Joe Rogan?

  Interesting. So that's how when people have bison on private land, that's how they get them there?

• 1:04:38Speaker 02

  I mean, there's a couple other populations, but yeah. Yep, that's one of them.

• 1:04:42Joe Rogan?

  And what's the population of bison in the United States now?

• 1:04:45Speaker 02

  I don't know. I mean, I think they're gunning for 6,000 just inside the park.

• 1:04:50Joe Rogan?

  What do they have now?

• 1:04:52Speaker 02

  Oh, I don't know. Jamie, you'd have to look that up.

• 1:04:58Speaker 03

  Weird. Oh, I don't know. It says estimated at around 500,000, smaller portion, 31,000 managed. And then like 6 grand in Yellowstone.

• 1:05:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:05:12Joe Rogan?

  There it is.

• 1:05:13Speaker 03

  Very varying numbers, though.

• 1:05:15Joe Rogan?

  Boy, they came so close to being wiped out.

• 1:05:17Speaker 02

  Oh, it's so wild. It's so...

• 1:05:19Joe Rogan?

  Really is crazy.

• 1:05:20Speaker 02

  So wild. I was staring at, uh... I was like, Jeff, what's the deal with this skull? Your bison antiqua skull that you have out there?

• 1:05:28Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:05:28Speaker 02

  That thing is amazing.

• 1:05:30Joe Rogan?

  That's from my friend John Reeves in Alaska.

• 1:05:33Speaker 02

  I was wondering. Yeah, I was wondering where that thing came from.

• 1:05:35Joe Rogan?

  Do you know about the Boneyard? Do you know about that place?

• 1:05:36Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:05:36Joe Rogan?

  That place is nuts.

• 1:05:37Speaker 02

  For a dude who likes to pick stuff off the ground, that's like a porn page.

• 1:05:41Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah. It's a crazy place. And there's no real explanation of why there's such a population of dead animals in this one spot.

• 1:05:51Joe Rogan?

  You know, and he thinks it's connected to the Younger Dryas impact theory. Because there's a very clear, distinct line of carbon in his ground. Like that, you know, when you go deep, deep, deep into the ground, which represents where these... Like, a lot of these things that he's pulling, they're plus 10,000 years old. Like, that step bison head, we didn't get it checked. We didn't have it sent off.

• 1:06:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:06:12Joe Rogan?

  A lot of the stuff he has dated, you know, older than 10,000 years. And so what he thinks is that this is one of the areas where there was an impact. You know, this Younger Dryas impact theory, there's two time periods. One is around 11,800 years ago, and then there's another one somewhere around 10,000 plus years ago. And he thinks one of those areas is where he was, or where his spot in Alaska is. And this deep, rich layer of carbon seems to indicate some massive burn that happened through that area. And it coincides with this immense pile of bones and ivory and, you know, mammoth skeletons and cave bears and all this shit.

• 1:06:57Joe Rogan?

  Like, it's a small area. You know, his area is only like, the area where they're pulling these bones from is only a few acres. No way. Yeah. He thinks it was a wash. So with the impact came this immediate melting of a lot of the ice caps. You know, and this is what they think happened that ended the ice age in North America. You know, 10,000 plus years ago, you're looking at more than a mile high ice in a giant chunk of North America. And then, almost instantaneously, that stuff gets melted. And this is, this coincides with Randall Carlson's theories about this too, which are also was unsubstantiated

• 1:07:38Joe Rogan?

  until they came up with the core samples for the Younger Dryas impact there, and they go, no, this happened. Like, there, there was a fucking massive impact. Somewhere around 30% of the entire world was hit by comets. And this area where John has, look at this, 2.1 to 2.3 acres. So if you look at the amount of stuff that he has, I mean, 2.3 acres is like a nice yard, right? It's like a nice, a person's really, oh, you got a nice piece of land here, nice yard. Yeah. That's where he's pulling thousands of dead animals. Yeah. And if you look at his, his boneyard, if you look at some of the, um, some of the warehouses that he has, this is his Instagram page, um, Boneyard, Alaska is the Instagram page.

• 1:08:23Joe Rogan?

  But he's got enormous warehouses filled with tusks.

• 1:08:29Joe Rogan?

  And it's only from a couple acres.

• 1:08:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, so they didn't walk to that spot and tip over. They got.

• 1:08:34Joe Rogan?

  Exactly. They all got washed into there.

• 1:08:36Speaker 02

  Yep, exactly.

• 1:08:37Joe Rogan?

  And very similar time period. Look at all this stuff, man. Fucking crazy. And look back at the other picture when you right before, look at that truck filled with heads. I mean, this is nuts, man. And this is like a day's haul.

• 1:08:50Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 1:08:51Joe Rogan?

  This is crazy, man. It's really crazy.

• 1:08:54Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 1:08:55Joe Rogan?

  It's really pretty extraordinary and thankfully John has both the resources and the desire to um blast the permafrost with these high pressure hoses to get all this stuff out of there. But I mean, he's trying to set up a legitimate research facility out there. You know, these scientists, they want to take the stuff and bring it somewhere. It's like, fuck off. If you want to do it, you're gonna do it right here. This is my land. We're not, he already had a problem with the museum um Museum of Natural History, is that what it was? Yeah. In New York, they dumped tons of his bones into the East River. So the property that he owned before he owned it, someone else owned it, that is his property. They took it and they were supposed to do research on it, but they had so many bones that they dumped a lot of it in the East River and

• 1:09:40Joe Rogan?

  the museum denied it. And so he got divers to go look for it and they found it exactly where they said. And they found step bison bones and all kinds of crazy shit that's not supposed to be there. In a pile in the East River.

• 1:09:55Speaker 02

  Um, when we were looking at the, the, the zone of um.

• 1:10:00Joe Rogan?

  Tolerance.

• 1:10:01Speaker 02

  Not the zone of tolerance, the um, the range, sorry, of, of bison, of buffalo. I was thinking of your skull that you have out there, but I found a gorgeous one in this wash in Alberta. And it would, would be like their summer range. So north of the Montana border, not all that far, up near the Saskatchewan River breaks. And you get up on these, these bluffs that overlook the river and you're like, oh, you just feel like somebody would have been sitting there watching stuff. And then if you look around, there's all, I mean, thousands over a lot of miles, but thousands of teepee rings. So all the tribes would go up there to hunt bison.

• 1:10:47Speaker 02

  And, and camp out, a little bit of cooler weather. And that's, that's where I found this bison skull.

• 1:10:54Joe Rogan?

  Did you find any arrowheads up there?

• 1:10:56Speaker 02

  There's a ton of them, but you can't, can't take anything up there. Yeah.

• 1:10:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:00Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah. And I called Alberta fishing game on this thing because I was so stoked about it. And they're like, oh, we just consider that cattle up here. Like you can take it. Like, okay.

• 1:11:12Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:11:13Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 1:11:15Joe Rogan?

  How old is the skull? Do you know?

• 1:11:17Speaker 02

  Well, it was such a pretty skull. People were like, oh, it's gotta be bison antiquus. But it's just, it's nowhere near.

• 1:11:26Speaker 02

  That's amazing. Is that a freshie? Did somebody make that or no? No way.

• 1:11:30Joe Rogan?

  No, that's a Comanche head from here.

• 1:11:33Speaker 02

  That's crazy.

• 1:11:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. I showed it to Remy and he said, it's really big. So they're probably using it for fish.

• 1:11:39Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:11:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:43Speaker 02

  That's amazing.

• 1:11:44Joe Rogan?

  It's interesting that the bigger ones like that is like kind of a normal arrowhead for elk or deer. Like if in, you know, today's standards, you know, if you look at that, that's like, that looks like an iron will. It's basically an iron will wide, right?

• 1:11:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:11:58Joe Rogan?

  And they didn't use them that big. They had smaller ones because they didn't have the much, that much power.

• 1:12:03Speaker 02

  They wanted penetration.

• 1:12:04Joe Rogan?

  Real penetration.

• 1:12:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:12:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:12:08Joe Rogan?

  Pretty cool.

• 1:12:08Speaker 02

  Oh, so cool. So cool.

• 1:12:12Joe Rogan?

  There's a, a friend of mine has a ranch out here and they've got thousands of them. You know, like the Comanche must've used that area and he has literally thousands and thousands of arrowheads. He's got boxes of them all. Just, all of them are dated and certified, like they know like what time period they came from.

• 1:12:32Speaker 02

  And yeah, so like, why was that chunk of ground in use for that long, right?

• 1:12:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:36Speaker 02

  If he's got that many.

• 1:12:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:38Speaker 02

  It's not because one group of people camped there for a couple of days.

• 1:12:41Joe Rogan?

  Those thousands of years, probably. And well, it's because it's really rich, you know, it's like, it's right off the Colorado River, so

• 1:12:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:12:48Joe Rogan?

  A lot of resources, a lot of, a lot of foliage, a lot of animals there to this day.

• 1:12:53Speaker 02

  Yep. Yeah. Um, that's one of the things, uh, that you can tell people. It's like, do you want, you wanna know why public lands matter? Uh, 97% of winter vegetables consumed in the US that are from the US are irrigated by the Colorado River.

• 1:13:13Joe Rogan?

  97%.

• 1:13:15Speaker 02

  So if your mommies and daddies are out there eating a nice green salad in the winter months, all that is fed by water from public land.

• 1:13:24Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:13:24Speaker 02

  Like, do we want that shit to be privatized?

• 1:13:26Joe Rogan?

  Right. Yeah.

• 1:13:27Speaker 02

  Like, what happens then?

• 1:13:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:29Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 1:13:30Joe Rogan?

  Well, Bill Gates already owns more farmland in this country than anybody.

• 1:13:36Speaker 02

  You know, I keep hearing that. Is he doing good stuff with it?

• 1:13:39Joe Rogan?

  There's no way.

• 1:13:40Speaker 02

  No?

• 1:13:40Joe Rogan?

  No. There's no way. I can't imagine that.

• 1:13:45Speaker 02

  Well, it's his angle.

• 1:13:46Joe Rogan?

  Oh, well, I know he was in the, the fucking veggie burger business for a while, but that shit went tits up.

• 1:13:52Speaker 02

  Dude, I am so anti, anti the lab grown and, and, yeah.

• 1:13:58Joe Rogan?

  Well, that stuff's not even a real burger. It's filled with seed oils and all these fucking, all this goo that you need to make sure that it connects together. And then people would pretend that it's delicious. Oh, this is delicious. You can't even tell the difference. You can't tell the difference? Where are you getting your burgers? Cause you're, you're eating cardboard burger. This is bullshit.

• 1:14:18Speaker 02

  Well.

• 1:14:18Joe Rogan?

  And it's just bad for you. You know, that, that's where it went tits up when they, those studies that came out that said it's giving lab rats cancer. I know how chaotic things get this time of the year between all the holidays, trying to train, and last-minute projects at work. It can seem impossible to get everything done. If you feel like you're running on fumes, AG1 Next Gen is an easy way to get the support that you need. With over 75 ingredients and five clinically-studied probiotic strains, it supports your energy and your immune health, among other things. And for extra boost, there's AG1 Pro, and that has the same Next Gen formula, but with five grams

• 1:15:02Joe Rogan?

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• 1:15:46Joe Rogan?

  you should try Squarespace. I know, because I use it. That's right, joe rogan.com is powered by Squarespace. It has all the features that you need to create a standout website, like an AI-enhanced website builder, SEO optimization tools, and seamless checkouts with mobile pay links. Head to Squarespace.com/Rogan for a free trial, and when you are ready to launch, use the offer code ROGEN to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.

• 1:16:19Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:16:20Speaker 02

  Well, I'd listen, I think it's just bad for all of us because if people think that your food can come from someplace other than the land.

• 1:16:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:29Speaker 02

  Then there is no value to that land.

• 1:16:32Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's vegetable based, right? But then it's highly processed. It's not like, you know, you're eating an eggplant, you know? You're not eating a squash. You're, you're eating something that's gone through this insane process to make, pretend that it's a burger. And, you know, there's a lot of investors who lost a shit ton of money because they were lied to. They were told that this is gonna be easy to make and it's gonna be really convenient and people are gonna love it. And people are looking for an alternative to meat. No, they're, actually, they're not. You know, and this is the only thing that was, my buddy Duncan, uh, he was living in North Carolina and when COVID came and, you know, there was a lot of shortages in the supermarkets and the lockdowns and all that jazz.

• 1:17:15Joe Rogan?

  He's like, the only shit that's available here is this fucking bullshit fake meat. Like fake meat was the only, he sent a picture. It was the only thing left on the shelf was like Beyond Meat or Beyond Burger or whatever the fuck it's called. Impossible Burger. Yeah.

• 1:17:31Speaker 02

  That's a good litmus test, right?

• 1:17:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:33Speaker 02

  If the world's gonna end.

• 1:17:34Joe Rogan?

  And nobody wants it.

• 1:17:35Speaker 02

  What are you reaching for?

• 1:17:35Joe Rogan?

  And people still aren't eating it. It's fucking, it's actually bad for you. Seed oils are bad for you and those things are filled with seed oils and there's also filled with a bunch of processed, cause you can't just, it's not, you know, like if you wanna be vegetarian, just eat vegetables. Okay? Don't, don't pretend you're eating some fucking fake burger.

• 1:17:55Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. Remember one of my biggest pet peeves in life, a buddy of mine was like going down the vegan train and we had to stop in all these towns that had like the best vegan restaurant?

• 1:18:04Joe Rogan?

  Buh.

• 1:18:05Speaker 02

  And I'm like, they're, they're stealing our names for food.

• 1:18:10Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:18:11Speaker 02

  The meat eater's name for food and.

• 1:18:14Joe Rogan?

  Tofurkey.

• 1:18:15Speaker 02

  My god, yeah. And be like, chicken fingers, Reuben sandwich.

• 1:18:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:19Speaker 02

  You know, and, eh, I'm like, can't you just be proud of what you're putting in your, in your body? I don't care if it's just vegetables, but.

• 1:18:26Joe Rogan?

  Just eat Indian food. There's a lot of like really great Indian restaurants that are totally vegetarian. I used to eat at one that was in Woodland Hills. It was great. It was really cool cause you'd go in there and everyone was speaking Hindi and nobody, you know, the, all of the. Like it was like a cafeteria place and all the menus were all in another I had to point at things. I didn't know what the fuck it was. I'm like, give me one of those.

• 1:18:48Speaker 02

  It tasted great.

• 1:18:50Joe Rogan?

  That was great. Yeah. But it was all vegetarian. Like there's vegetarian food that you can eat that's really good. It doesn't, you don't have to pretend that it's a fucking burger.

• 1:18:58Speaker 02

  It, it is a, a mental exercise, right? And it's like, no, no, no. Love vegetables. Can't eat meat. Meat's evil. I just happen to need all my vegetables to resemble meat.

• 1:19:11Joe Rogan?

  Well, and then there's the problem of what actually happens when you have monocrop agriculture. Cause this is a lot of this stuff is coming from that. And by the way, there's way more death per calorie of food that you get from monocrop agriculture, from growing just one crop in an area than you're ever gonna get from meat. Like there's thousands of animals, millions of animals have to get killed in for, in order you to grow this food. That's just a fact of life.

• 1:19:41Speaker 02

  Well, you used the word convenience earlier, right? Like convenience is like the killer of conservation. Cause it, it's hard work, man. It's not convenient. Like these animals on the landscape that have been, been doing things for ever. Like they just don't adjust to things. You know, I was talking about like the, the, the prairie. How we're losing two million acres of prairie a year. Well, uh, there's this super badass little chicken, lesser prairie chicken. Super charismatic little dude, dances, puts his tail fan up, big cheek flares and uh, game bird.

• 1:20:20Speaker 02

  Used to be in the, possibly into the millions in that, that time that you described when Lewis and Clark were, were coming out onto the prairie.

• 1:20:30Speaker 02

  It is a prairie bird to the point where it will not nest within, I gotta wanna say six acres of a vertical structure of any size.

• 1:20:47Joe Rogan?

  Interesting.

• 1:20:47Speaker 02

  So there were no trees on the prairie, no fence posts, and this bird can't nest if it's around any sort of a vertical anything. Like, cause that's just the way its brain is wired.

• 1:21:00Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:21:00Speaker 02

  And that shit is so inconvenient for people that uh it's just hit the endangered species list.

• 1:21:08Joe Rogan?

  So is that because it has to be completely away from all predators that it has to know where everything is?

• 1:21:14Speaker 02

  I think it's gotta be, it's gotta be something like that, yeah.

• 1:21:17Joe Rogan?

  So it doesn't fly?

• 1:21:19Speaker 02

  It does fly.

• 1:21:20Joe Rogan?

  Does it fly like a chicken does, like short periods?

• 1:21:23Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:21:23Joe Rogan?

  Or does it fly like a turkey?

• 1:21:24Speaker 02

  Um, there's like a colloquial, you know, uh hunter name where they just call prairie birds chickens. Um, it's not a chicken at all, but it's, it's like a little grouse species.

• 1:21:37Joe Rogan?

  What does it look like? Did you see if you could pull it up?

• 1:21:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, so uh, but it's a great test case for the greater sage grouse.

• 1:21:45Joe Rogan?

  A cool looking little animal.

• 1:21:47Speaker 02

  Oh, so.

• 1:21:49Joe Rogan?

  Which one is it?

• 1:21:50Speaker 03

  They're all the same, you can't tell.

• 1:21:52Speaker 02

  It's the, it's a smaller version of that. That's the greater prairie chicken. We're looking for the lesser prairie chicken.

• 1:21:58Joe Rogan?

  Uh, so the greater prairie chicken, how big is that?

• 1:22:01Speaker 02

  Um, you're looking at like sixteen to eighteen ounces, I bet.

• 1:22:10Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 1:22:10Speaker 02

  You got a size on that sucker?

• 1:22:12Joe Rogan?

  That's the big one. So the little one's tiny.

• 1:22:15Speaker 02

  Um, but ninety-five percent of the native habitat left for that bird is on private ground at this point.

• 1:22:25Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:22:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, and that private ground is used for grazing.

• 1:22:29Joe Rogan?

  So twenty-four ounces to forty-two ounces.

• 1:22:32Speaker 02

  Oh, that's a big one.

• 1:22:33Joe Rogan?

  Adults.

• 1:22:34Speaker 02

  There you go.

• 1:22:34Joe Rogan?

  That's the greater prairie chicken.

• 1:22:39Joe Rogan?

  Oh, what a cool looking little bird.

• 1:22:43Speaker 02

  Oh, charisma.

• 1:22:45Joe Rogan?

  When I was in, um.

• 1:22:47Speaker 03

  This guy's got ears.

• 1:22:48Joe Rogan?

  Oh, whoa. That's crazy looking.

• 1:22:50Speaker 03

  They're rabbit ears.

• 1:22:51Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, how weird.

• 1:22:52Speaker 02

  There's this awesome group of ranchers kinda in the Colorado, Oklahoma, New Mexico zone. Um, and they, they formed the Lesser Prairie Chicken Landowner Alliance. And what they've been trying to do is get, cause there's this, this huge conservation bill, biggest conservation package in the world called the farm bill. And it has a lot of, um. Incentive subsidy for

• 1:23:20Joe Rogan?

  These fucking

• 1:23:20Speaker 02

  Farmers. Isn't that thing amazing?

• 1:23:22Joe Rogan?

  I've never seen a bird with ears like that.

• 1:23:24Speaker 02

  Oh!

• 1:23:25Joe Rogan?

  Like, other than like an owl kinda has them, but those are so pronounced.

• 1:23:30Speaker 02

  How cool is that thing?

• 1:23:32Joe Rogan?

  Is that his actual ears? Or is that just like a weird feather structure?

• 1:23:36Speaker 02

  Those are just feathers, yeah.

• 1:23:38Joe Rogan?

  But where's his ears? Behind that?

• 1:23:39Speaker 02

  They're right behind his eyeballs.

• 1:23:42Joe Rogan?

  So, do you think those, that feather structure enhances hearing? I mean, it has to, right?

• 1:23:46Speaker 02

  No, that feather structure there is to enhance his sex life.

• 1:23:49Joe Rogan?

  Oh, let the ladies know. What's up?

• 1:23:52Speaker 02

  Yeah!

• 1:23:53Joe Rogan?

  What's up? Look at my ears, baby. Got it going on over here.

• 1:23:58Speaker 03

  Do they wiggle them or something?

• 1:24:00Speaker 02

  Oh, they're, they dance.

• 1:24:02Joe Rogan?

  Interesting.

• 1:24:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:24:04Joe Rogan?

  And so, it's almost kind of a grouse, so it does fly.

• 1:24:06Speaker 02

  Yep, it is a grouse, yeah. Yeah.

• 1:24:08Joe Rogan?

  Ground nesting.

• 1:24:09Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:24:10Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 1:24:10Speaker 02

  Yep. Um.

• 1:24:12Joe Rogan?

  It's probably also one of those animals that feral cats fuck up.

• 1:24:14Speaker 02

  Oh, for sure.

• 1:24:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:16Speaker 02

  For sure.

• 1:24:18Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow, look how cool it is. Wow, so beautiful looking. Look at his eyebrows.

• 1:24:23Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:24:24Joe Rogan?

  Ah, let's go get it on. Let's go, baby.

• 1:24:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:24:27Joe Rogan?

  Look at that guy's cock blocking. See that?

• 1:24:31Joe Rogan?

  Wow. What a cute little animal.

• 1:24:34Speaker 02

  Yeah. And, uh, this thing is tied to

• 1:24:40Speaker 02

  wide ass open grass, wide ass open prairie.

• 1:24:43Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 1:24:44Speaker 02

  Right? And so, uh, what this group, the Lesser Prairie Chicken Landowner Alliance, uh, is doing is, you know, they're trying to get folks in the Department of Ag to set up some, some funding specifically for grassland ecosystems that are used for grazing. So it's gonna be good for the round rancher and, and good for the grouse in this case too, right? Um, and that funding doesn't exist, but there's lots of programs to take like monocrop agriculture and turn it into CRP, which, you know, mixed grass. Um,

• 1:25:26Speaker 02

  basically like rest that ground. That was one of the, the programs that came out of the Dust Bowl era. So, instead of turning the ground over and all that dirt dries out. And can get blown away. We lose that topsoil.

• 1:25:40Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:25:40Speaker 02

  Plant it with with grass and let it rest for like a three-year period, a five-year period. Part of our like big ag incentive structures. Balance out markets and all that fun stuff.

• 1:25:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Monocrop agriculture is such a problem and industrial agricultural in general. I had Will Harris on a couple of times from White Oaks Pastures.

• 1:26:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:26:02Joe Rogan?

  And so his family farm was an industrial farm forever. And then when he took it over, it was like a 20-year period of converting it to become regenerative. And in that process, what's really, if you look outside in our lobby area, we have two jars of soil that were given to us by Will. And one of them is from his neighbor's property. That's an industrial farm. And it's just like this weird pale looking fucking just, you know, it's all industrial fertilizer that they have to use and pesticides.

• 1:26:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:26:40Joe Rogan?

  And his is like this rich, dark soil. He's like super proud of like what they've turned it and converted it over to. You just this natural process that's supposed to exist when animals graze, the ungelates they poop and they make manure. And then the grasses grow and the animals eat the grass. It's all, that's how it's supposed to be. And we've.

• 1:27:00Speaker 02

  But you know what else it is? Inconvenient.

• 1:27:03Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:04Speaker 02

  It's hard fricking work.

• 1:27:05Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:27:06Speaker 02

  Right?

• 1:27:06Joe Rogan?

  It's hard work. Well, fortunately for him, he's got a big name now. And so people seek out his food.

• 1:27:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:27:12Joe Rogan?

  They want to buy from him. But, you know, these, and there's a lot of like bullshitting from supermarkets. Like he had a real issue with Whole Foods lying. And even after he had stopped selling them food, they were they were saying that it was coming from him.

• 1:27:28Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 1:27:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:29Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:27:30Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Even the concept of like grass fed, like for how long, like and how are you feeding them the grass? Are they in a pen where you're feeding the grass? Are they actually wandering around eating grass like they're supposed to? Yeah. There's a lot of that, you know, like when you hear about like chickens, you know, they're free range. Like what it, what does that mean?

• 1:27:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:27:51Joe Rogan?

  How much of a range?

• 1:27:52Speaker 02

  I just had dinner with our buddy Jesse last night. And it was. Insane. It was so good. Did I do we?

• 1:27:59Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah. That's an amazing restaurant here.

• 1:28:02Speaker 02

  Oh, but we were just, I was like, okay, well, tell me about this. Tell me about, you know, Longhorn and what wagyu means on his menu and

• 1:28:10Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:28:10Speaker 02

  And all the, the pigs and the things that he's seeking out.

• 1:28:14Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:28:14Speaker 02

  And like the breed of chicken that they have. Um, but like you were saying, like, it's not just the breed. What, what's that chicken doing?

• 1:28:23Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:28:24Speaker 02

  And it's insane. It is so fricking cool, man. Like, it's a heartwarming place to eat. And it was just like, knock your fricking socks off.

• 1:28:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, Jesse does it the right way, and he's such a good chef. He's so amazing. He, when Steve and I, uh, went to, um, uh, Yatoria down in South Texas to hunt, Jesse came and he, he cooked for us. It was the most incredible experience because, and he cooked diver duck, which everybody says is gross.

• 1:28:52Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:28:53Joe Rogan?

  He's like, no, no, no. This is just, you just have to prepare it properly. And it was some of the best duck I've ever had in my life. He just has a marinating process that he does, and then he grills it. And it was insane. It was so good, man. It was so good.

• 1:29:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, they got nominated for James Beard on his Turkey Book, which is super awesome. Um, the people down there are just, you know, his employees stay there. They've been there for, they're like, everybody in that house has been there for a decade. And they, they're, they're just loving the stuff that they're doing and putting out and, um, the stories that he can tell on that menu, right? Like the bread.

• 1:29:33Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:29:34Speaker 02

  Is, uh, he's like, yeah, I went and picked grapes out of the alley across the street, which doesn't sound all that great, but that's how he like started the yeast for the bread. And that's been going for six years. Uh, they got yogurt that, uh, came from a culture that's been going from, uh, for 200 years from, uh, one of their employees whose family's from India and they brought it over.

• 1:29:58Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 1:29:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, just. I love that stuff.

• 1:30:01Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:02Speaker 02

  I love that stuff, but it takes like dedication and commitment to know where your food comes from.

• 1:30:09Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:30:09Speaker 02

  Right?

• 1:30:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:10Speaker 02

  And I swear to God, when I go back to DC and I'm talking to people, like they're so disconnected from this stuff. And I just often think, I'm like, God, if you guys just knew where the food comes from.

• 1:30:24Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:30:24Speaker 02

  What the land actually provides.

• 1:30:27Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:28Speaker 02

  We wouldn't be having these conversations.

• 1:30:30Joe Rogan?

  No, I mean, human beings, for the most part, in urban areas are completely disconnected. If you had a survey of how many people really understand where food comes from in your average city, I would imagine it's a less than double digits.

• 1:30:45Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:30:46Joe Rogan?

  Probably a small percentage of people really understand.

• 1:30:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, man, I mean, I mean, the economics of food I've gotten really into recently because there is a real inability in certain areas of the country where the cost of getting anywhere near an actual grocery store is prohibitive to a lot of people. And so, you know, they're just like, they're shit out of luck for a real food. And then it's a cultural thing of mom didn't know what real food was, dad didn't know what real food was. So I don't and my kids won't.

• 1:31:29Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:31:29Speaker 02

  You know, and, and then on the flip side of that, it's like food comes from DoorDash, food comes, you know, people spending big bucks.

• 1:31:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:39Speaker 02

  And they don't, and they're just as disconnected as the folks who don't have any bucks to spend.

• 1:31:44Joe Rogan?

  Now imagine the younger dry as impact today. Imagine some kind of impact like that today to force people to actually find their own food. You know, first of all, you'd be dealing with a small amount of survivors, right? Let's, let's imagine an apocalypse, an apocalyptic scenario where 20% of the population survives, which is probably happened numerous times in human history. If that happened today. How many people are equipped to find food? How many people are equipped to live off the land? It's such a small amount, man.

• 1:32:19Speaker 02

  Such a small amount. I also think about the anthropologists digging through that bone pile.

• 1:32:26Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:32:27Speaker 02

  And they're like, why is it that when we do cross sections of these bones, they're so much more unhealthy than the cross sections of the bones from 4,000 years earlier?

• 1:32:39Joe Rogan?

  I know.

• 1:32:40Speaker 02

  Or like, you know, yeah. Yeah, cuz I think that's-

• 1:32:43Joe Rogan?

  Convenience.

• 1:32:44Speaker 02

  Convenience, man. We love our convenience.

• 1:32:46Joe Rogan?

  Convenience is killing us.

• 1:32:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. And I think there's a moment here. We had all these different walks of life come together and be like, oh, my God. Public lands matter. We had all these businesses come together and say, public lands matter. I gotta tell you, when I was chatting with our buddy Cam Haynes the other day, when I was about to be disconnected for a week, right? And I've been like eaten and breathing this, this fight, this stupid lawsuit that came out last year. Then it's in the House. Oh, my God. We get it pulled out of the House. Thank God. Then it goes to the Senate. Oh, my-

• 1:33:32Speaker 02

  Mike Lee introduces the damn thing in the Senate, sneaks his language in, blindsides everybody. And I gotta get on a plane to go to the Arctic. And there's this little like bellwether moment where I look at, I make like a last Instagram post, last thing I can do. And I see Cameron Haynes is like, you guys, you gotta get off your asses and, and call your senators. They're selling our public land. And the same day, Josh Smith from Montana Knife Company did it too.

• 1:34:15Speaker 02

  And I bring those two guys up as examples because they were also like-

• 1:34:22Speaker 02

  Like on the, the mega train, right? They were like, uh, pro-Trump and through the election, they're representing the, the right side of the political spectrum. And when that moment happened, I did draw like a little, little breath of relief right there. I was like, okay.

• 1:34:41Joe Rogan?

  And people that aren't afraid to criticize aspects of the big, beautiful bill.

• 1:34:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:34:45Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:34:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:34:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:46Speaker 02

  And, and they're not afraid to say, yeah, we voted for this guy, but this part of the, the pie sucks. It's super important to us that this gets pulled out of here. And we're going to go to, go to the mat for it. And I'm like, that is, that is the thing, right? We have people who aren't so self-conscious that they're like, oh God, I said this thing a month ago. I can't come out and say what I really think right now. Cause I would kinda contradict what I said a month ago.

• 1:35:23Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:35:23Speaker 02

  You know? And that gave me like, really, really made me feel good. I'm like, okay, things are, are starting to go our way now because all the other people who were afraid to say the same thing were like, oh, thank God some other people with a big microphone came out and said it. So now I feel emboldened to stand up publicly for what I believe in.

• 1:35:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Such a terrible thing to be so trapped in the ideology of your party that you can't stand up for what's right. That's, that's gross.

• 1:35:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, man. And, and it is.

• 1:36:00Joe Rogan?

  So un-American.

• 1:36:01Speaker 02

  And it's being promoted though, too. Like, one of the things I feel when I go back to DC is there's a lot of people spending time on making sure,

• 1:36:12Speaker 02

  not that America is better, but that that system persists. So the next, next generation of short, short, little boat shoe, no sock wearing people can have jobs.

• 1:36:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, those boat shoes. Yeah, it's gross. It's really gross and it's prevalent, you know? It's been around for a long time, this weird system that we have. It's not effective, it's not good, it's not good for anybody. And it's all being fed by lobbyists and special interest groups and they're all just... They want to keep it going, they want to keep the grift going.

• 1:36:49Speaker 02

  But there, I mean, there's palpable frustration out there. Like, I feel it every day. A long time ago, you told me.

• 1:36:57Joe Rogan?

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• 1:37:41Joe Rogan?

  Takes a few minutes to sign up. Chime is a fintech, not a bank. Banking services and Chime card, provided by Chime's bank partners. Terms and limits apply. Go to chime.com/disclosures for more details. This episode is brought to you by Armra. Every week, there's some new wellness hack that people swear by. And after a while, you start thinking, "Why do we think we can just outsmart our bodies?" That's why Armra colostrum caught my attention. It's something the body already recognizes and it has hundreds of these specialized nutrients for gut stuff, immunity, metabolism, etc. I first noticed it working around training, especially workout recovery.

• 1:38:25Joe Rogan?

  Most stuff falls off, but I am still taking this. If you want to try, Armra is offering my listeners 30% off. Go to armra.com/rogan.

• 1:38:35Speaker 02

  You're like, "Dude, don't, don't read the comment section."

• 1:38:39Speaker 02

  And you're 1,000% right. I can't say how right you are, but during this time...

• 1:38:47Speaker 02

  Of like, why aren't people clicking into this? Right. I was getting real depressed, like shaken, pissed, tears at times over feeling so underrepresented. And then when we started gaining momentum, I was like, okay, what the hell else can I do? I'm calling my senators, I'm calling my representatives, I'm establishing contacts with their staff. I'm talking to them about how important this is, I'm asking them what else we can do.

• 1:39:22Speaker 02

  Trying to build these bridges for this goal of protecting my public lands that I love. Right? We're working with all these nonprofit groups are coming together, even groups that traditionally don't focus on public land access issues, you know, like your Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, who has done a bunch of stuff for access, but you know, they have an elk on their logo. They're the elk people. And then Pheasants and Quail Forever, they're the Pheasants and Quail people. National Wild Turkey Federation, they're the turkey people. But they started being like, oh, oh, this is real serious. And then we started getting all these people in the same room together,

• 1:39:59Speaker 02

  sharing information instead of being competitive. And then businesses started coming out and saying, well, what can we do? Little breweries down in Arizona, this guy, Ren House Brewing, called me and he's like, hey, what can I do? I have a brewery, what can I do? And we came out with a beer that has a QR code on the label, and it's just called Rep. Because at that time, the fight was in the house, so call your representative, and you hit the QR code. You put in your zip code and it connects you with your representative. Hmm.

• 1:40:40Speaker 02

  Right? It's like, crush beers and crush the phone lines, whatever tag you want. Up to, I was on, I'm on a steering committee that has REI, Patagonia, Rivian, all like big, big companies, right? That are like, we- We want to put some muscle behind this. We want public lands to stay public. Then we launched a hunt brands for public lands coalition. And had a huge name. Sig Sauer is on there, right? They have military contracts and they had the guts to stand up and be like, we don't want to see public lands get sold off.

• 1:41:22Joe Rogan?

  That's awesome.

• 1:41:23Speaker 02

  Yep. Weather being another firearms manufacturer. You know, first light meteor, obviously, but we started like building all these bridges.

• 1:41:35Speaker 02

  And unifying groups and people and businesses around this common cause. And it's that public persistence that that we the people part that folks tend to kind of tend to forget. Um, that is literally saving public lands about like being out there, public and loud. And it's working.

• 1:42:04Speaker 02

  But we need to take it to the next step, right? And maintain the momentum. And stay unified. And the, the thing that was really interesting. Right? Is like, we're up to, up to the date, up to the absolute.

• 1:42:23Speaker 02

  Second. That language is pulled. Before it's officially pulled, Mike Lee's team has his statement out on, I listened. I still want to sell public land. But I listened to everybody. So I'm not going to do it right now is really what it says. And he's completely fabricating this story. He was told like this is going to get pulled. So you can do it now and save some face. Or we can pull it and you're going to look like a loser. Right? And unfortunately he got the option to like, fight again another day. Which is brutal.

• 1:43:08Speaker 02

  But, um.

• 1:43:12Speaker 02

  I get that information.

• 1:43:15Speaker 02

  And I get to announce it to this awesome group of people at this off-road rally trash pickup deal that I'm out at called the Gambler 500, which is super cool. And then, um, I put that online. I'm like, hey, thank you to the Democrats and thank you to the Republicans and thank you for all the voices that came out and the businesses and all this stuff. And then I was just like, set my clock as to when people were gonna just start tearing each other apart. And it fucking happened, right? And it's like, you guys voted for this. You were getting exactly what you deserved.

• 1:43:55Joe Rogan?

  Oh, right, right, right. I did see a lot of that.

• 1:43:57Speaker 02

  You know what I mean?

• 1:43:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I did see a lot of that. Like, no, we didn't, stupid. No, we voted because we felt like the country is moving in a terrible direction. It doesn't mean that they can't also move in a terrible direction once you get them in. It's the important thing is, people stood up, people like you, luckily, that are very invested in this and used the considerable resources you have access to, and got a lot of other people involved, like Cam, Josh Smith, and everybody else. And I jumped in too. That's, we're just lucky that a lot of people care and recognize that this is a slippery slope and that if they got through with this and they did this, this is just one step. And if you let them

• 1:44:38Joe Rogan?

  sell one acre, that's why just not one acre was the best motto. It really was. Not one acre was the best motto. You can't. It's not yours. It's ours. It's everyone's. And if you sell it, you should make zero profit. It should go, literally, if you did sell it, it should have to go to every fucking person that lives in the planet, or in this country, rather.

• 1:44:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean-

• 1:45:00Joe Rogan?

  And we don't want it. We don't want that money. Keep it, keep it the way it is.

• 1:45:04Speaker 02

  No, the value of this stuff only goes up.

• 1:45:06Joe Rogan?

  Not only that, again, we're 36 fucking trillion dollars in debt. You're not even gonna put it, if you sold all the public land, all of it that we have, it wouldn't put a dent in it.

• 1:45:16Speaker 02

  No, it wouldn't. You could strip all the timber.

• 1:45:18Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:19Speaker 02

  Sell the land.

• 1:45:20Joe Rogan?

  Everything. Minerals, everything. Not gonna put a dent in it.

• 1:45:23Speaker 02

  No, it's not. So we gotta find a better way. And you know what? It's not gonna be convenient.

• 1:45:27Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 1:45:28Speaker 02

  It's gonna be hard. And that's, that's like the thing that I keep coming back to. I'm like, all they're doing is being like, oh, see, we did something.

• 1:45:38Speaker 02

  They're not doing the hard work.

• 1:45:39Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:45:40Speaker 02

  Right? And this particular thing would divest the American people of, in my mind, and we started doing it as a slogan for Backcountry Hunters and Anglers, is like, "Public land, freedom." Like, you are divesting the American people of the ability to be free. Like, these places represent, like, a lot of goofballs, man. Unstructured fun. And I feel like there's a lot of people in the lawmaking side of things that get very nervous about American people out there having unstructured fun.

• 1:46:17Joe Rogan?

  Really? Is that really what it is?

• 1:46:18Speaker 02

  They're like, "What's going on out there on that BLM land? There's somebody riding a motorcycle, and there's somebody shooting a gun, and there's somebody fly fishing, and there's somebody bird watching, there's a family camping."

• 1:46:30Speaker 02

  Can't have that.

• 1:46:30Joe Rogan?

  Do you really think that's it? Do you really think it's like they don't want unstructured fun?

• 1:46:35Speaker 02

  I, I'm coming around to that thought a lot, man. A lot, like, right? They're like, "Why? There's no kiosk." Right? Nobody's out there charging

• 1:46:47Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:46:48Speaker 02

  for your use of America's public lands. You're not signing a liability waiver. Oh, my God. And, once you're out there, you just kind of make up whatever it is you want to do that day?

• 1:47:05Speaker 02

  That's freedom, buddy. Right? And I think people are fucking nervous about that.

• 1:47:10Joe Rogan?

  That's a weird perspective.

• 1:47:11Speaker 02

  It is.

• 1:47:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I don't know if I agree with that. I just think they look at it as an opportunity to cash in. I think they look at it as an opportunity, like, "We have all this land, it's public, let's sell some of it." I think it's just like incredibly short-sighted. I think they think in terms of, literally in terms of terms where they're elected.

• 1:47:30Speaker 02

  And it's not sell some of it, right? They're like, "We're gonna maybe hold on to the national parks, but there's another play there where we're gonna turn those over to the states."

• 1:47:41Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:47:42Speaker 02

  Or privatize them completely.

• 1:47:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:44Speaker 02

  Um, get full control of, like I said, like, Colorado River, right? Like, we're gonna control the pipes for the water sheds.

• 1:47:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I've heard that language before, that water's not a right. Yeah.

• 1:48:00Joe Rogan?

  That...

• 1:48:02Joe Rogan?

  People are gross, man. If you let them be. If you let them be, they'll be gross.

• 1:48:08Speaker 02

  And, yeah, absolutely. And some of these people want it purely for the fact that they can't have it. Right? And it drives them insane.

• 1:48:15Joe Rogan?

  There's definitely that, yeah. There's definitely that. A lot of short-sightedness. It's, uh, a lot of people could use a mushroom trip.

• 1:48:24Joe Rogan?

  It's just a lot of people that are just... You're missing so much of what this life is because you're so concentrated on your election cycle. You're so concentrated on making more money. You're so concentrated on things that when you're 90 and you're in your deathbed, it ain't gonna mean shit, man. It's not gonna mean a damn thing.

• 1:48:43Speaker 02

  No. No. You could've been having fun and enjoying life with your neighbors.

• 1:48:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Like, you can't keep it. You're gonna die. You can't take it with you. You're gonna die. And they don't see that while they're on the hunt. While they're in the middle of this process of trying to accumulate zeros in their bank account.

• 1:49:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, got a little endorphin high. Saw another zero hit.

• 1:49:06Joe Rogan?

  It's all they want. And they're competing with other people that are doing the exact same thing. So they're in their little short-sighted echo chambers. You know?

• 1:49:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. But I hope to God people learned, right? Like, there's a lot happening in between elections. And, and you gotta know, if you weighed in during this, you made a difference. Like, everybody who jumped in and wrote to their representatives and senators and told their buddies about this and asked businesses, "Why aren't you on that list?"

• 1:49:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you can actually make a difference in this country.

• 1:49:43Speaker 02

  Absolutely. And it's not, not just at the election hash marks.

• 1:49:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:49:49Speaker 02

  Like, if people didn't hold our elected accountable...

• 1:49:54Speaker 02

  They would have been like, they just want to get this stuff passed. They're like, ah, path least resistance. There's some really good ass kickers out there on the Democrat and Republican side of things, for sure. But, we need to lift those people up in order to get the rest of the coasters involved.

• 1:50:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and we need to also let people know that this is an issue going forward, now that we know. This is an issue that can affect whether or not you get elected. You need to know that. Like, we're gonna be on you. You can't do this.

• 1:50:30Speaker 02

  Exactly. Like, we're gonna be consistent, and we're gonna be on your ass.

• 1:50:34Joe Rogan?

  And now that this has happened, and we've had some success, and it worked, now people know it'll work. And so now, all the Randy Newburgs, and all the people that were like really enthusiastic about this, that really did their job, you know, they're getting more support now. And it's gonna build. And then we'll be much more aware of whether one of these things is trying to get snuck through in the future.

• 1:50:57Speaker 02

  Absolutely. Absolutely. I would say, the early folks, right? Like, Randy, I feel like we were kicking ass at Meat Eater, Katie Hill at Outdoor Life, Andrew McKean, Outdoor Life, Travis Hall, Field and Stream, like, those people were on it.

• 1:51:22Joe Rogan?

  And you gotta think, all those people have a significant following on social media, you know?

• 1:51:26Speaker 02

  And they have a lot to lose, too, man.

• 1:51:28Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:51:29Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yep. National Wildlife Federation, Backcountry Hunters and Anglers, were talking about this way early, and then a lot of other orgs jumped in. And, and some early, Pheasants Forever, Quail Forever, they started, they were awesome. I just gotta, I gotta mention them because they're like, they're Farm Bill oriented, hook and bullet organizations. They do an amazing job. But, that's largely private side of the fence. And, they came out and started talking to their membership about this early. And, you kinda get punched in

• 1:52:12Speaker 02

  the face. I gotta be honest. Like, we took a lot of shit on the Meat Eater side of things. Rinella took a ton of shit.

• 1:52:18Joe Rogan?

  How so?

• 1:52:19Speaker 02

  Just people being like...

• 1:52:22Speaker 02

  Uh, well, one, they're like, Steve, aren't you a Trumper? You can't also support public lands because that's going against Trump.

• 1:52:31Joe Rogan?

  But this is just people in the comments, right?

• 1:52:33Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:52:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:52:35Joe Rogan?

  Again.

• 1:52:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:52:35Joe Rogan?

  Who are those people?

• 1:52:36Speaker 02

  Oh, way too much time.

• 1:52:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, don't, don't read them. You're dealing with such a small population of morons. The problem with comments is, especially negative comments, it's such a small population and almost all of them are fucking losers.

• 1:52:53Speaker 02

  I got sucked in though, because I'm like, I don't know. I was like, I was so desperate to make an impact, right? At the end, I'm like, I'm feeling like I've pulled every frickin' lever that I can.

• 1:53:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:53:04Speaker 02

  I'm asking the experts, I'm like, could we get, and this is a screwed up piece of information. I was like, okay. I want to do a Freedom of Information Act, uh, request, sue for information for all the senators' offices. And find out how many people called on behalf of public lands and how many people called to sell them off. And I want that information to be public. Well, those offices, they don't have to give over that information, I found out.

• 1:53:37Speaker 02

  So like, where the hell's the accountability on that?

• 1:53:39Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:53:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, but anyway, I'm going nuts trying to figure out what other levers I could pull. And I would just sit there and be like, okay, I'm gonna find one person

• 1:53:51Speaker 02

  on the feed

• 1:53:53Speaker 02

  and just

• 1:53:55Speaker 02

  understand their side of things and see if I can pull them over to my side of things and maybe that butterfly wing effect will do some sort of good.

• 1:54:02Joe Rogan?

  You're not, those people, yeah, you voted for this, those people are just trying to win. They're just trying to like, get you. And they're people that for whatever reason thought Kamala Harris would be a good president. And then there's also people that I don't even know if they're real humans. I think there's a lot of this stuff that we have to understand about social media is coordinated bot farms. And so anytime you have a hot button topic that could, you know, maybe get a bill rejected or get a bill passed, it's not organic, the comments. There's some organic comments. Some of these people that are negative, "You voted for this." They're just a real fucking loser who doesn't like people that have public profiles, doesn't like people that are successful, doesn't like people, and they just want to find some way

• 1:54:47Joe Rogan?

  to call you out. There's a lot of that. But then there's a lot of coordinated, artificial interaction. And we've, we've highlighted that and we've, we've been on that for quite a while because we found out through this one former FBI guy that eighty percent, his estimation was eighty percent of Twitter is bots. Yeah. Eighty percent.

• 1:55:14Speaker 02

  You know, people are having, their, their whole life is talking to bots then, if that's the case.

• 1:55:18Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it is the case. I, I know it's the case. I don't know if it's eighty percent, but I, I do know that it's an enormous number because I, I don't interact and I'm, I'm now, I've, I've since separated myself so far that I'm kind of not even on social media anymore.

• 1:55:35Speaker 02

  Nice.

• 1:55:36Joe Rogan?

  I might check it in the morning, I check Twitter in the morning to see whatever he's mad at, you know, and then I usually feel bad after I check and I'm like, "Why am I even looking at this?"

• 1:55:44Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:55:44Joe Rogan?

  "Jesus Christ," and I just get off. And when you, you do that, you feel better. You just feel healthier, you feel better. But when I do check and like, there's any sort of a hot button issue, I'll look at someone is saying something outrageous, then I'll click on their profile. And then I'm like, it's like a bunch of letters and a few numbers. And then I look at their profile, I'm like, "Oh, you're not even a real fucking person." And then you see, "Oh, this is like, half of the people in this aren't real people." And it's, there's no laws. Like, there's no, I'm, first of all, I'm gonna be real clear. I'm against a law where it says you have to post under your name, your, your social

• 1:56:25Joe Rogan?

  security number has to be registered to this account so we know you're a real human being. The reason why I'm opposed to that is because I think whistleblowers are essential because I think corruption is real. And I think if you hold someone accountable for everything they post, man, you're going down a dark road. You, you don't, you're going down a dark road where you could possibly get people fired for posts that, you know, like, England is...

• 1:56:51Joe Rogan?

  Out of control right now. Like, I don't know if you know this, but England, I think it was somewhere in the neighborhood. How many people got arrested for social media posts in England this year? We've looked this up before. I forget the number. It's in the thousands. Arrested for saying immigration's a real problem. We gotta stop these grooming gangs. We gotta, you know, stop these Muslims from, you know, illegally immigrating into England. Arrested. Go to jail. Like, for real.

• 1:57:19Speaker 02

  That, that's insane.

• 1:57:21Joe Rogan?

  People do time. They're doing time. Like, no bullshit, real time for saying things.

• 1:57:27Speaker 02

  Like I could kill for a cheeseburger. Like, I always said I killed.

• 1:57:30Joe Rogan?

  Not like that.

• 1:57:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:57:31Joe Rogan?

  Not like that. But, but it's mostly about policy issues. And what they're trying to do is make sure that everyone stays in line. And so they're doing this by scaring people away from being critical of the government. And the way to start it is to attack people that say anything bad about immigration, attack people that say anything bad about the government. In fact, they just tried, they're just doing this in Brazil right now. They just passed this huge fucking law that you can get removed from social media for anything that's critical of the government. Anything that's critical of Lula, who's the president of Brazil right now, you, you get removed from social media.

• 1:58:15Joe Rogan?

  Like, you can't be critical. Like, they don't have freedom of speech anymore. And this is the slippery road, this is a slippery slope that we were going down with the last administration, what they had done during the pandemic. It's scary stuff, man, and people have to be aware of it. And...

• 1:58:30Speaker 02

  Well, I think there's a version of that, too, with what we were talking about on, like, the hard party politics people, right? Where it's like, the social backlash

• 1:58:38Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:58:39Speaker 02

  of being a critical thinker

• 1:58:41Joe Rogan?

  Yep.

• 1:58:41Speaker 02

  is so much that it then creates a non-thinker, or you just totally leave that zone. You don't pay attention anymore. You're not gonna talk about it.

• 1:58:53Joe Rogan?

  Yep. Yeah. It's, um, you, you self-censor. You self-censor out of survival. You know, you realize, like, this is, this is too dangerous. I'm not gonna say anything. And that's how they get things passed, because then you don't have any criticism. And then you don't have any... You don't have any people that are opposing you. It's very scary because again, a lot of this stuff that you're seeing that's causing people to self-center is not real self-censor is not real human beings.

• 1:59:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:59:22Joe Rogan?

  It's bots.

• 1:59:23Speaker 02

  And that's my fear is that when you finally get that person to be like, alright, you know what? I'm gonna leave this part of it behind and step out to advocate for what I believe in? And the first response they get is.

• 1:59:44Joe Rogan?

  You voted for this.

• 1:59:45Speaker 02

  Fuck you, you're getting what you deserve.

• 1:59:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:59:47Speaker 02

  Right?

• 1:59:47Joe Rogan?

  Police make 30 arrests a day for offensive online messages.

• 1:59:51Speaker 02

  Oh, God.

• 1:59:52Joe Rogan?

  They're nuts. So, officers from 37 forces made 12,183 arrests in 2023. The equivalent of about 33 per day. Marks an almost 58% rise in arrests since before the pandemic. In 2019, but still, like 2019, 7,000 detentions for online shit. So what we have in America is incredibly unique in that regard. And other countries are setting a standard and it's a dangerous fucking standard. And we have to really make sure that that doesn't happen here. And we also have to make sure, I wish there was a way where you could identify bots. And Elon tried to find this out when he bought Twitter.

• 2:00:37Joe Rogan?

  So when he purchased Twitter, they told him that it was less than 5%. And he's like, well, how did you figure that out? And well, they only figured it out, it's not real, it's not a real number. But they just took a random cross-section of 100 users and found 5% of those people were clearly bots. That doesn't mean anything.

• 2:00:55Speaker 02

  Job's done.

• 2:00:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:00:56Speaker 02

  Found it, took care of it.

• 2:00:57Joe Rogan?

  You could also do that, you could take a random section of users that interact with very non-controversial subjects and find a small number of bots. Like, let's say you find a bird watching group of people on Instagram or on Twitter. Like, what are the odds that those people are gonna be bots? Very small, right? There's no reason, there's no benefit financially or otherwise.

• 2:01:18Speaker 02

  Big bird seed.

• 2:01:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:01:20Speaker 02

  You know, coming in.

• 2:01:21Joe Rogan?

  Exactly, like, so if you go after bird, I use bird watchers because I see them all the time. You know, that's like the purest form of just this is what they're into.

• 2:01:31Speaker 02

  Great group.

• 2:01:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, great group of people, but there's no financial incentive to support or deny bird watching. You know, so if you go to the bird watcher group on Twitter, yeah, it's probably 5% bots because they're fucking everywhere. But if you, I guarantee if you go to abortion, or if you go to immigration, or if you go to anything that's a hot button controversy, ice raids, whatever it is, any hot, anything, any hot button controversial subject, there is a, there's a shit ton of them, man. And it's kind of creepy because who is paying for it? Who's paying for it and why do we don't, how come we don't have any laws to stop that from happening? Because it's not real.

• 2:02:14Joe Rogan?

  You're, you're getting this artificial sense of what the general public wants. Because they've, they've, you know, monetized it and they figured out a way to artificially inflate these numbers.

• 2:02:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I think.

• 2:02:27Joe Rogan?

  It gives this illusion of this consensus amongst people. And they can do that, and even with like ridiculous conclusions.

• 2:02:36Speaker 02

  And I think consensus though is, is so dangerous to any political party, right? Like what we just saw, there was an agenda and everybody had to stand up and say something. Because of one fricking person who wanted to make this happen.

• 2:02:53Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:02:54Speaker 02

  And I guarantee you, I guarantee you that what they're thinking about right now is holy shit, how do we break up this consensus? Like, what do we need to do? We can't have bird watchers agreeing with off-road users and bow hunters.

• 2:03:12Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:03:12Speaker 02

  That's, that's, we can't win that.

• 2:03:14Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:03:14Speaker 02

  We need them to be only bird watchers, only bow hunters, only off-road users.

• 2:03:20Joe Rogan?

  Well, what we need to do is be apolitical. And I think we were with this.

• 2:03:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:03:25Joe Rogan?

  Which is beautiful. So the Democrats, the Republicans, and the people like me that are fucking politically homeless. They, they all came together on this and said, no, this is stupid. And, and all these people, oh, you voted for this. Fuck you. Nobody voted for that. Fuck you. Like, this is one guy. And if history, if that didn't work, if we didn't have an impact, and if nobody stepped up and people like you weren't so steadfast. That would be in the history books. That Mike Lee guy would be the guy that you see, you know, your kids see in forty, fifty years and they read the history books. They go, oh, that guy? That guy did this?

• 2:04:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, he'd have a proud statue inside a giant strip mall, uh, something that used to be public land. Be like, why is that here?

• 2:04:08Joe Rogan?

  Probably wouldn't.

• 2:04:08Speaker 02

  It's cause, cause we gave up.

• 2:04:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:04:10Speaker 02

  That's what happened.

• 2:04:11Joe Rogan?

  Well, it depends on who's writing the history books, right? It could be that he would be a hero. He turned it up. They generated two hundred extra billion dollars that did nothing, did nothin' for this. I mean, this big, beautiful bill, doesn't it raise the debt by three trillion?

• 2:04:27Speaker 02

  I think that's what they came down to. It started at four and now it's at like three point three trillion. Yeah.

• 2:04:35Speaker 02

  And there's so much to it, too. Like, like I said, this is my own personal dumpster fire.

• 2:04:40Joe Rogan?

  What Trump wants is growth. He wants economic growth and he thinks he can get it out of this and that's the overall net benefit.

• 2:04:47Speaker 02

  Oh, and there's some bending over backwards, right? Like that Arctic trip that we were talking about. Uh, we went up to the ten oh two area on the Arctic plane, just absolutely.

• 2:04:57Joe Rogan?

  That ceiling increased by five trillion.

• 2:04:59Speaker 02

  Did that just happen, Jamie?

• 2:05:01Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 2:05:02Speaker 03

  It did pass this afternoon when we started, yeah.

• 2:05:05Speaker 02

  Oh, okay.

• 2:05:05Joe Rogan?

  Hundred fifty billion in additional border security. Well, we probably need that. Hundred fifty-four billion in additional defense spending.

• 2:05:14Joe Rogan?

  That's, you gotta, gotta feed the demons.

• 2:05:17Speaker 02

  The, the golden dome thing, which is not.

• 2:05:21Joe Rogan?

  What's the golden dome?

• 2:05:22Speaker 02

  That's.

• 2:05:23Joe Rogan?

  Space-based golden dome missile defense system?

• 2:05:25Speaker 02

  Yeah. Trump was enamored with, uh, Israel's missile defense system and wanted one and most of the experts were like, that doesn't really work with our land mass.

• 2:05:38Joe Rogan?

  Oh, boy.

• 2:05:38Speaker 02

  Um.

• 2:05:39Joe Rogan?

  Also hypersonic missiles. There's a lot of shit it doesn't work with.

• 2:05:42Speaker 02

  There, there's a, um.

• 2:05:46Speaker 02

  There's a line item in here for, I think it's a few billion bucks for our next big birthday. America's next big birthday, which I always think of affordable housing when I think of it. I bet the folks like having their own little individual parties and might think it's okay to throw that couple hundred million at an issue versus fireworks and parades, you know? I don't know, maybe, maybe. But yeah, man, we got it. We have got to stay unified on these things.

• 2:06:25Joe Rogan?

  Stay unified and avoid the comments, folks. And don't be scared. Don't be scared to speak out against something that you know is wrong.

• 2:06:31Speaker 02

  And you jackasses, if you want something real bad, like I want public lands, public waters, public wildlife for the people, real bad, I don't, when that shit talker converts and is like, "Yeah, public lands are sweet. I called my senator," I don't say, "Fuck you, shit talker." I say, "Thank you, dude. Really appreciate it."

• 2:06:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Well, most of those shit talkers don't have good friends. The people that actually are actual human beings that are losers, the reason why they're losers is because they're in a bad spot, okay? And any one of us could have been that person. Any one of us could have been that person that's surrounded by bad people, they have a bad job, they got a bad relationship, they live in a bad area. There's not a whole lot of hope, not a whole lot of happiness. And so you try to tear down everything around you.

• 2:07:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, you put your petty shit over the top of the real shit.

• 2:07:27Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but my perspective is, look, I can't fix everybody, so I can't help you, but I don't want to interact with you. So I'm not gonna, I'm not, I don't have the time, I don't have the resources. It's impossible. And I don't like it. I don't like arguing with people, so I don't want to do it. If you talk to people one on one, most people are pretty fucking reasonable.

• 2:07:48Speaker 02

  Pretty amazing, really.

• 2:07:50Joe Rogan?

  But when they're just shouting out into the void like that, guess what? You don't have to read it. You don't have to listen. You don't have to interact. It's fucking bad for you. It's bad for your brain. Everybody that I know that's on social media all the time is super unhealthy. Every one of them.

• 2:08:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, for good reason. It's a trash pit.

• 2:08:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:08:08Speaker 02

  Uh, it worked really, worked really well in this case.

• 2:08:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:08:12Speaker 02

  Because it allowed that community to build fast and be reactive.

• 2:08:18Joe Rogan?

  But you have to curate your community online, the same way you curate your community in the real world. You know, and this is a part of not reading the comments, because the comments is the whole world, you know? Or the, the, the people that are interacting. It's not really the whole world, but again. It's just, it's, it's not worth it. It's just not worth it. It's not worth going in there.

• 2:08:38Speaker 02

  And people, if you want to win, like identify that fricking goal. And, and think, okay, what's gonna help me achieve that goal? It's not putting your petty shit above the goal.

• 2:08:53Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:08:54Speaker 02

  Right? You bury that stuff deep down inside and you say, great, thank you. Thanks for hopping on board. Please tell your friends. We're gonna get to this goal together. That's awesome.

• 2:09:04Joe Rogan?

  I think that's best done on a group basis. Like just make a post, thank you to everybody that did it. But don't interact with individuals. This is not worth it. The people that I know that do it, that all get, they all get fucked up. Cause it's just like, it just takes one comment that gets under your skin. That carries you around while you're hanging out with, you're at your kid's baseball game and you think, that cocksucker on Twitter. You know, and there's a lot of people out there that are doing that, man. You're watching your kid hit a homerun, you're not even happy. You're mad about some fucking random dude who you don't even know if it's a real person.

• 2:09:37Speaker 02

  No, is the truth. I told that, uh, that group I was with, uh, up in the Arctic, man, I'm like, I read them because I want to understand the argument. And, and see if that's really the argument. Like, is this really where people are coming from? Or is it just an asshole?

• 2:09:55Joe Rogan?

  There's mostly just an asshole, and even their argument probably sucks, but also, a lot of it's artificial. You gotta think about how much money is involved in selling off this public land, and how much of an interest do people have in pushing a narrative that would say that selling this public land is a good thing?

• 2:10:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:10:13Joe Rogan?

  You know, there's, there's money involved in this. Whenever there's money involved in this, there's, you can pay for it. There's services where you can start a campaign, like, it's not real. There's services where if you wanna push a narrative, you can use their service, and they will incorporate this bot farm, and they will push it towards whatever you wanna do. And it's legal. That's what's fucked.

• 2:10:40Speaker 02

  That's so fucked.

• 2:10:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's, it's lying. It's just lying with computers. Yeah.

• 2:10:46Speaker 02

  Unfortunately, there's still a lot of people out there on the interweb going, "Well, I read it on the internet."

• 2:10:51Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah. Well, there's a whole articles read. One commenter said, "No, they didn't." You know, if that, if that's a fucking robot, what are you, are you gonna make a retraction? No, you're not. You're not. If it's AI, are you gonna, are you gonna say something about that? Are you gonna say there's a problem? No, you're not gonna say, because your, your whole business is clickbait, and the more you have negative comments that you could use to start the formulation of an article, okay, that's how you make a living. And so, don't read their fucking articles either. This is the key. Just like, you have to just interact only with real humans.

• 2:11:24Speaker 02

  I got in the practice of just being like, "Okay, what I'm about to say is gonna be political, involve scary words, Democrat, Republican, it's gonna make you uncomfortable. Don't believe me. Go to thefederalregister.gov. That's the source material. Read it for yourself. I'm just gonna tell you what I read in there, on these pages. That's the source material. Go read it. Like, that's where the land sales are happening, that's where it's outlined. The text is there. It's the Journal of the Government, printed every day, online, go read it. And, uh, you know, for the little stuff on the podcast, I don't deal with, and it's like, the Montgomery Teller said an alligator came out, uh, I don't say that.

• 2:12:09Joe Rogan?

  Tal's Week in Review. Yeah, yeah. Tell everybody your podcast.

• 2:12:14Speaker 02

  Cal's Week in Review. We do news, outdoor news, and we cover legislation like this.

• 2:12:19Joe Rogan?

  It's fun podcast.

• 2:12:19Speaker 02

  The Legislative Desk.

• 2:12:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:12:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:12:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. It's fun. You have a good time with it, though.

• 2:12:24Speaker 02

  Man, there's some good times. There's some burnout times, right?

• 2:12:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:12:28Speaker 02

  Where I'm like screaming into the void, like, guys, this land sale's coming.

• 2:12:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:12:33Speaker 02

  Yep, coming hot.

• 2:12:34Joe Rogan?

  Well, people listen to you, fortunately.

• 2:12:37Speaker 02

  Oh, it, uh...

• 2:12:40Joe Rogan?

  It's gotta feel a little good. Doesn't it feel good that people united and listened?

• 2:12:46Speaker 02

  I'm trying to make it feel really good.

• 2:12:48Joe Rogan?

  Well, you're scared that's gonna happen again.

• 2:12:50Speaker 02

  It... Cause I know it's gonna happen again.

• 2:12:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:12:52Speaker 02

  Again, I'm wearing the same shirt that I wore on this show, talking about this same stuff six years ago, or whenever we decided it was, right? Like, um, and I do, I feel really, really good. Like, we, a lot of people came out. They threw political baggage aside, and they, they talked about how important this stuff is, and it's incredibly important to me. Um, and I thank them all from the bottom of my heart, because it is so important, and one voice is just not gonna do this, right?

• 2:13:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:13:25Speaker 02

  So that, that does feel good. That does feel good. I just kinda wanted there to be a vote on this amendment, so all the American people can see exactly who voted for it and exactly who voted against it.

• 2:13:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:13:42Speaker 02

  And just lay it out on the table for everybody.

• 2:13:44Joe Rogan?

  That would be nice. Yeah, and it'd be nice to see, like, what special interests were involved, like, uh, what, what money was pushing it in that direction.

• 2:13:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I mean, just, we need a higher... And most people won't do this, even if we had the ability, but we need, uh, more peaks behind the curtain, right? We need more accountability. Like, so just a great example, I'm up at the, the State Capitol in Montana. Uh, we just, our legislative session just ended, um, at the beginning of the year. And there's some knucklehead brings this, um, um, judicial amendment up to join, for the state of Montana, to join...

• 2:14:34Speaker 02

  Utah's lawsuit to sell off eighteen and a half million acres of public land. And a hundred and fifteen people showed up to testify against the state. This is during during work hours in a Montana winter. Hundred and fifteen people show up to testify against this. And there's some on online too there to be fair. Um, originally there were ten people signed up to testify in favor of joining lawsuit. Um, all ten of those people drop off. They only give everybody two minutes to testify in front of committee. Everybody testifies, don't do this, bad for Montana. Um, bad for all these other reasons.

• 2:15:18Speaker 02

  Professional people, um, some lobbyists, uh, nonprofit people, but just a lot of people being like, yeah, I'm a dad and that's where I take my kids. Like, why would we do this? Uh, that committee approves it and sends it through.

• 2:15:38Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:15:39Speaker 02

  And there's no accountability. You can't say, okay, how many people called your office? How many emails did you get? None.

• 2:15:47Joe Rogan?

  Right. Your representatives just decide against the will of the people.

• 2:15:51Speaker 02

  The ones that showed up and were vocal. Right? So how do it work? And and I understand why people do not trust this stuff. Right? Like, that's a hard experience to have.

• 2:16:03Joe Rogan?

  It's hidden on purpose, you know? They want to be able to do what they want to do. Yeah. And there's a lot of money that gets them elected. And once they get in there, they get these phone calls from these folks, hey, I need you to do this.

• 2:16:16Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah. Montana's a good example right now. All right, we, so John Tester, who was an awesome public lands guy, Democrat farmer out of Big Sandy, Montana, that's the only political, uh, donation I've ever made in my life was to his campaign, uh, cause he was awesome on public lands. Uh, he got, he lost this year, but, uh, so we have, uh, Tim Shee is our freshman senator in Montana. Uh, so he's brand new. He won John Tester's seat. And then we have Steve Daines, who's been in for a long time. He's a senior Republican, also on the Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee. And

• 2:17:00Speaker 02

  Republicans, and they said, not in as strong a words as I would want, um, that they're not for the sale of public lands during this fight, during the House, and then during the Senate fight again.

• 2:17:18Speaker 02

  We're not going to sell public lands. Our Republican Ryan Zinke, also, uh, he's a representative in the House. You know, he said, "That's my San Juan Hill." He's like, "I'm, I'm gonna die on San Juan Hill before I vote to sell off America's public lands." Right? So, I think for everybody else who's naysaying whether a Republican can do this, or it's just the Democrats that are willing, I think we have a good example in Montana right now. And I'm not saying give up. I'm gonna hold these people accountable, and I think everybody else should too. Um, that these Republicans are willing to go to bat for public lands right now. And we're making it that, like, third rail issue.

• 2:18:02Speaker 02

  Where it's like, if you want to win in the state of Montana, you better be good on public lands.

• 2:18:06Joe Rogan?

  Were there any Democrats that were in favor of selling off public lands?

• 2:18:09Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah. One of your, uh, one of your California folks came out early in the House.

• 2:18:13Joe Rogan?

  They're not mine. I abandoned those people.

• 2:18:19Speaker 02

  You know, because they-

• 2:18:19Joe Rogan?

  I identify as a Texan now. I converted. I transitioned.

• 2:18:23Speaker 02

  Yes, I cha- oh. I support you, Joe.

• 2:18:26Joe Rogan?

  Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for seeing my truth.

• 2:18:28Speaker 02

  Um, but you know that it's just, it's another easy answer to the very hard question of affordable housing. Right? So, I think there's plenty of Democrats out there-

• 2:18:44Joe Rogan?

  I think it's a bullshit answer.

• 2:18:46Speaker 02

  Oh, it's a total bullshit answer.

• 2:18:47Joe Rogan?

  I think they just want to sell the land. I don't think that any, any-

• 2:18:52Joe Rogan?

  Interest in turning it into public housing.

• 2:18:54Speaker 02

  No.

• 2:18:55Joe Rogan?

  Fuck off.

• 2:18:56Speaker 02

  Fuck off is right.

• 2:18:57Joe Rogan?

  Put public housing in the middle of the woods? Fuck off.

• 2:18:59Speaker 02

  No.

• 2:18:59Joe Rogan?

  It's not what you're doing.

• 2:19:00Speaker 02

  No, no.

• 2:19:02Joe Rogan?

  It's just one of those things that you say to people, so they're, "Oh, it would go to the greater good."

• 2:19:06Speaker 02

  Oh my God, we've been talking about urban renewal for how long in this country, right? Like, there's a lot of places that are not going to be good for wildlife, not going to be good for the matriculation of clean water. They're not producing clean air.

• 2:19:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:19:22Speaker 02

  That could be great affordable housing, or just housing in general for people.

• 2:19:27Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:19:28Speaker 02

  But that's hard. It's not convenient, Joe.

• 2:19:29Joe Rogan?

  Exactly. Not convenient. That's the thing. Well, thank you for doing what you do, brother. And thank you for being such a vocal spokesperson during this time. Because it was really, really impactful. It made a lot, made a lot of difference. Really did.

• 2:19:44Speaker 02

  Well, I'm gonna be here for the next one, Joe.

• 2:19:46Joe Rogan?

  All right, let's hope we don't have to do this again.

• 2:19:48Speaker 02

  I want to change my shirt.

• 2:19:52Joe Rogan?

  Let's hope we don't have to do it again, but if we do, we'll do it again.

• 2:19:55Speaker 02

  All right. Thanks a bunch.

• 2:19:56Joe Rogan?

  Thank you, brother. And Cal's Weekend Review, it's available everywhere. Apple, Spotify, all that jazz, right?

• 2:20:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. Um, @olcal406 on the Instagram, and if you want to do me a huge favor, I'm the North American Board Chair for Backcountry Hunters and Anglers. And we put in over 150,000 comments, phone calls, from real people who used our Action Alert Center during this public lands battle. And that's made a big difference. Because we can go into those offices and say, "Hey, 2,500 people called your office today. Have you heard about public lands?" So, become a member. Helps us out, and we'll help you out, and we're not going to give up on this stuff.

• 2:20:42Joe Rogan?

  I'm a lifetime member.

• 2:20:44Speaker 02

  Love you, though.

• 2:20:45Joe Rogan?

  Love you too, brother.

• 2:20:46Speaker 02

  All right.

• 2:20:46Joe Rogan?

  Bye, everybody.

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