#406 - “They Want to Replace God” The UFO PsyOp Just Got Real | Matthew Ehret

Watch every episode ad-free & uncensored on Patreon: https://patreon.com/dannyjones Matthew Ehret is a journalist, lecturer, and founder of the Canadian Patriot Review. SPONSORS https://amentara.com/go/dj - Use code DJP22 for 22% off. https://mengotomars.com - Use code DANNY for 50% off for life. https://whiterabbitenergy.com/?ref=DJP - Use code DJP for 20% off. EPISODE LINKS https://substack.com/@matthewehret https://canadianpatriot.org FOLLOW DANNY JONES https://www.instagram.com/dannyjones https://twitter.com/jonesdanny OUTLINE 00:00 - The plan to reset society on 9/11 03:45 - Plato 12:21 - The fallacy of the creation of the universe 18:28 - Robert Sopalsky & the God-shaped hole 21:50 - Defining wisdom & the connection to truth 26:55 - Epstein's connection to ancient Roman empire 31:50 - Jacques Costeau's views on depopulation 37:57 - Cosmic radiation's impact on the Earth 47:48 - Adversarial scarecrows & trojan horse assumptions 53:05 - Thomas Malthus' prediction of cataclysms 58:39 - The 9 muses & the mystery of creativity 01:01:09 - Kepler's 3 laws 01:08:06 - The forbidden ways of thinking 01:11:01 - Matt's film on the UFO psy-op 01:13:30 - The Esalen program on psychedelics 01:18:03 - Why Satan chooses to be evil 01:26:57 - UFOs are a multi-generational magic trick 01:33:47 - The Rockefellers' control grid 01:41:44 - The one-world alien religion 01:50:20 - Plato's noble lie 01:55:49 - Plato's definition of a human being 02:00:05 - Straussians & Plato's secret doctrine 02:07:18 - What it means to be a Platanist 02:17:01 - Sketpicism of Telepathy Tapes & Uri Geller 02:24:11 - The power of self-deceit & belief 02:28:40 - Washington Irving Bishop 02:35:16 - Houdini's role in national intelligence 02:36:57 - The secret society that killed Lincoln & started the KKK 02:45:20 - Oneida cult 02:47:06 - The paradox of Presidential assassinations 02:52:50 - Shadow organization running the world today 02:57:15 - Dark strategy behind the Epstein files 03:05:10 - The Silicon Valley movement 03:12:39 - Tavistockian method of breaking people 03:15:27 - Suspicious names behind UFO disclosure 03:27:48 - The narrative that explains UFO disclosure 03:33:40 - Varginha, Brazil UFO incident Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:43Speaker 00

  Learn more at gethumana.com. See any doctor who accepts Medicare and is willing to bill Humana. Humana PPOs may not be available in all areas. Benefits and costs share may vary. Humana is a Medicare Advantage PPO organization with a Medicare contract. Enrollment in any Humana plan depends on contract renewal.

• 1:07Danny Jones?

  I listened to your podcast with Kurt Metzger. And boy, that was wild. You guys covered, well Kurt did most of the talking, but every time you chimed in, it was very interesting.

• 1:21Danny Jones?

  So what's your background and how did you get into all this stuff?

• 1:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's a great question. Kurt is a really fun dance partner, dialectically speaking. So yeah, that was a bit of a controlled bit of chaos that I enjoyed. My background is the arts. So I was graphic design, illustration type person until I kind of got my little shaking up as I was on the precipice of figuring out, do I go into which line of work in illustration, storyboarding, comic books, or whatever back in 2003 or four? And it was around that same time that I started, some of the crazy conspiracy theories of some of my friends and an ex started becoming more apparent, had more grounding in reality than I had hitherto expected, as I had encountered some of my own discoveries along the way, especially around 9/11.

• 2:10Speaker 02

  And the idea that there was perhaps an organized intention to bring about some form of a societal reset in a very bad cataclysmic way, so that was a big shock for me. And so I spent a couple of years trying to figure out, well, how do I deal with that reality of like, okay, if let's say 9/11 wasn't what we've been told about, some guy in a cave, maybe there was some elements of controlled intention? In that, what do I do with that fact? Like, how does that change how I thought my society ran and how I negotiated my relationship with that? So that was a bit of a dark spot. Where'd you grow up? Montreal. Montreal? Yeah. So from there, I guess I was just trying to figure it out and bouncing around a bunch

• 2:52Speaker 02

  of theories that I could try to hold on to, to try to explain how there's been this intergenerational, transgenerational conspiracy that hasn't necessarily been noble in intention to create a certain very bad effect. And along the way, I found myself volunteering with the LaRouche Organization, which is a, they had a small little, it's an American-based political organization that was very active in the United States, and they had a small little office in Montreal, usually with political tables with like, you know, impeach Dick Cheney or something, but I'm in Canada, so I'm like, what am I gonna do with this fact? But I was on a smoke break, and I found myself speaking to one of these activists. And basically, they had signage saying, you know, "Do something about the depopulation agenda." And I was like, you know what, I could speak to that.

• 3:37Speaker 02

  At that point, I had like, gotten a bit of a handle on this idea that there was an intention to reduce the world population. And so I was like, you know, I've got 50 minutes for a smoke break, let's have a conversation. And overall, even though I found that they didn't know as much as I did about secret societies, that I felt like I was probably a lot wiser than I really was at the time, at the very least, they were trying to do something proactively, and I wasn't. And that kind of bothered me. Hmm. And they were providing some sort of a sense of... An optimistic orientation about how do you deal with this very dark sort of shadow hanging over society that I didn't have as concept. So I was like in a very dark place thinking that there's no resistance. There never has been. It's always been a controlled dialectic for centuries to bring us to this place. And I was like, oh, there's actually a way

• 4:22Speaker 02

  of thinking about my history and about what's going on today that I could possibly engage in. So for about a decade, I was working with them for so and and there were some bad spots to that. But there was also, I think, a lot of good that I value in terms of method, because there was a sort of cultural educational program at the time, 2006 to about 2016 is when I was involved.

• 4:45Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 4:46Speaker 02

  So for the first few years, they had a very strong intention to, you know, focus on reading original writings. So on top of doing political activism, I was reading a lot of Plato, doing a lot of constructive.

• 4:57Danny Jones?

  Do you read Greek?

• 4:58Speaker 02

  No, not the original Plato. No, just what I could get my hands on, usually Benjamin Jowitt or other shady Oxford translators.

• 5:06Danny Jones?

  Can't rely on those fucking translators. They try to switch it up on you when you don't know.

• 5:10Speaker 02

  They do do that. Yeah. But there was a general still meta story about the method of the dialectic and the zeroing in on paradoxes that is contained within all of all of the platonic dialogues that I definitely was able to find a value in as far as Plato's like general method of getting you to think about how do you how do you investigate your core axioms, your core unexamined assumptions that are at the root foundation of all of the edifices of thoughts or hypotheses that we have about the nature of reality that we're trying to navigate and model and map out. So that that type of process of learning how to have like external dialectics with others while at the same time, learning more about how your own mind works, and then learning where the paradoxes or how to smell out paradoxes

• 5:52Speaker 02

  where a hypothesis doesn't fit with the empirical data of reality and where the cracks are. That's like really something that even Benjamin Jowitt and the dirty dishonest translators can't necessarily scrub away. And so that gave me a good, I think, just love of a way of thinking that I've been able to apply more and more to my own research.

• 6:10Danny Jones?

  Yeah, there's a huge difference between the ancient philosophers, especially the the philosophers of Greek antiquity compared to the philosophy of today. It's very different. It's today's very it's much more lazy. Back then, they were far more unforgiving.

• 6:26Danny Jones?

  On themselves with what they do and now like they like back then they would question the whole framework of science and the whole framework of thinking for example if you were like uh working on the the philosophy of knowledge or like the the theory of knowledge and you're studying all the history of science and how the paradigms have changed but you for example you subscribe to Christian ideals or you your your model of reality is looking through everything through the the Christian lens well you're not gonna question how the Catholic Church destroyed all of the knowledge of classical antiquity and you're not gonna look at the Inquisition and all this stuff you're gonna be biased and it's the same way

• 7:10Danny Jones?

  like say if you're uh today if you have some sort of a political bent and you look at everything through like a liberal Democrat lens or a social Democrat lens and you're thinking about human nature and all these things and how maybe different people from different races from different parts of the world may have different IQs and maybe everyone is not created equal right like you're not gonna take those liberties and those people back then in antiquity I feel like they had a much more robust version of philosophy that would basically like that would be where every single um every single part of your worldview would encompass this work and everything would be a part of a part of the whole you know what I mean?

• 7:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's a that's a good observation. There's definitely a lot more rigorous uh discipline when it comes to epistemology and there wasn't a tendency to divide the material mechanics of an explanation of how things work from the metaphysical sort of first causes of why they are and there wasn't like in from I think Enlightenment the Enlightenment period onward there was more of a lazy tendency to sort of treat the world as if you had like this these two separate systems that had no correlation where you know when it comes down to the mechanics of things then you could be an engineer you could be a technician you could you could have your opinions about you know how a machine works but then That type of realm has been severed from the like, the why is it all happening the way

• 8:34Speaker 02

  it is instead of some other possible fathomable outcome? And when they do tend to get into metaphysics, like that's the idea of the positivist repulsion to metaphysics that came out of the Ernst Mach School and other 19th century empiricists who are like really, really obsessed with just getting like empirical data that you could taste, touch, you know, put on a chart.

• 8:52Danny Jones?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 8:53Speaker 02

  They hated the idea of metaphysics because it was messy and there was ideas of like justice and soul and, and, you know, God or whatever that that is, like these metaphysical things that are not expressible in the sensory domain, but are ideas that are accessible through the domain of like thought. And they didn't like that because you couldn't cut up justice, you couldn't cut up, you know, honor or something like that.

• 9:14Danny Jones?

  You can't weigh it, you can't measure it.

• 9:15Speaker 02

  Whereas, yeah, like a lot of the ancients didn't take those assumptions. They, they tended to see a

• 9:22Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 9:22Speaker 02

  That one flowed from the other and back and forth. There was a reciprocity.

• 9:25Danny Jones?

  Right, right. Also today, even in science, you see it like, right? Like scientists are, they're very pigeonholed and they have their blinders on and they work on little things here and there, right? They, they, they very rarely or almost never question the whole paradigm or work on the whole, like the scientific method or take like a zoomed out 30,000 foot view of this stuff. It's very, uh, and not only that, but it's, you know, it's all funded by corporations and special interests and all that kind of stuff.

• 9:53Speaker 02

  The Rockefeller Foundation has the greatest love of truth and cares about, sir.

• 9:58Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 9:58Speaker 02

  Yes. Yeah, no, absolutely. And but that's where I was thinking too, like usually when they do allow themselves to go into some form of metaphysics, it's messy and sloppy. And so what you tend to get are like people who will be really, really rigorous mathematically on a localized thing like heat engines or thermodynamics, but then, and they'll, they'll, they'll be very good at the math and just measuring systems as closed systems that you, that you get within like the second law of thermodynamics and that entire framework built up around Helmholtz and Clausius. But then when they say, okay, well now what is the whole universe? Why is the universe? Well, they're, they will say very quickly and sloppily, well, the whole universe must be an extrapolation of this type of heat engine system that we're seeing slowly winding

• 10:41Speaker 02

  down because heat engines are only going to be able to continue to function with its multiple parts, serving a purpose as long as there's like an energy distribution, which is constantly moving towards homeostasis, towards basically heat death. And then they'll say, well, the whole universe must be. Expressing on the on the meta level, this exact thing that I'm seeing on the on the empirical level in in the localized region of the universe that I happen to be like measuring things and and you know in my so they'll say thus the whole universe is animated by effectively death and that we thus are like constantly moving inexorably towards some some place of of ultimate

• 11:13Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 11:14Speaker 02

  Death.

• 11:15Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 11:16Speaker 02

  That was a bit of a leap you just made there. Why do we assume that that something that is useful in the localized region is also happening on the on the meta narrative like the meta scheme too? And how does that account for how we have these higher systems like us who are having conversations and thinking about thinking? And that came out of something that seems to be, you know, a a simple, seldom, amiable, very boring thing a few hundred million years ago, which what then you have to account that that's all just some random anomaly? That you had all of these these systems that were like low state, low like high entropy systems going into lower and lower entropy over time? Or vice versa?

• 11:57Danny Jones?

  Right, right.

• 11:58Speaker 02

  And it's all just a an accident that we happen to be here, you know? So.

• 12:02Danny Jones?

  Yeah, applying our laws of physics to the universe essentially, right?

• 12:05Speaker 02

  Well, rather than seeing that our laws of physics are have to be seen in the context of something higher that may not necessarily abide by the exact same functions that we're measuring on the localized region, you know? So there might be something that we're missing, for example.

• 12:21Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 12:22Speaker 02

  You know, so.

• 12:23Danny Jones?

  Right, totally.

• 12:24Speaker 02

  We're given like these these cutouts of what the sun is, what the earth is, what all the planets are when we're in high school, and we're told that this is exactly the way it is, and we know exactly that the earth has this these aspects of the, you know, two thousand man kilometer miles of of mantle with two thousand miles of

• 12:38Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 12:39Speaker 02

  Of this specific kind of like, you know, a core that has thermal convection and this is what the sun looks like is a but it's like honestly, we we scratched the surface to all of these things. And we don't have the humility. To just see that, okay, there are things that we have that have been truthful discoveries, and we know that they're truthful discoveries, but they're highly flawed, or there's a lot of unknowns.

• 13:02Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 13:03Speaker 02

  That we should take into consideration, be more honest with ourselves, until we actually figure out a way to do the work properly to

• 13:10Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 13:11Speaker 02

  Dig more than like 16 kilometers into the earth's crust.

• 13:14Danny Jones?

  Yeah. Yeah, there's too much, it's too much, there's too much dogma in the science of that stuff, you know, and this is another like funny thing that, another thing I get into it with Giorgiani all the time when we talk about, speaking of him, I was just having a fun conversation with him earlier, but like, the point of the universe, like the, one of the points that Giorgiani makes, well, I think it was one of the times he was on the show, we were talking about like, the idea, like, the idea of the universe having to be created by one person or one thing at one specific time, and he explains that this is, this is a logical fallacy, that the universe had to have been created by something or someone at some point in time, and the way he was explaining it was like, the universe is in a constant state of flux, there's constantly planets, uh, being born

• 13:59Danny Jones?

  and dying, solar systems emerging and dying, galaxies emerging and dying, and universes emerging and dying, and now if you even want to encompass like the idea of the multiverse, that same thing is happening in this constant, basically, reality and the cosmos, as the Greek philosophers would call it, is in a constant state of flux, things are always emerging and going away, and just because, like, his whole point is that, because of that, and because we know that that's true, that, like, why do we have to jump to the conclusion or have this idea that everything was created all at once by one, by one person? And he thinks that's a logical fallacy.

• 14:42Speaker 02

  How did you respond to that?

• 14:43Danny Jones?

  Uh, I just like sat there and was like, whoa, crazy.

• 14:47Speaker 02

  Well, the way I, I try to look for,

• 14:52Speaker 02

  I think one of the, one of the things that I've noticed is not necessarily useful as far as extrapolating dynamics that shape our empirical world that we live in, like we're kind of like born into a world that we were a baby, you know, before that we were a fetus, before that we were really not, not a thing materially speaking, and then we're gonna die, and everything in the material world that we're trying to map and understand. Yeah. Have that, that quality of being limited and bounded within space, but also in time. So there's the space-time boundedness of all systems, because everything is a system, we're made up of parts as well, right? There's thousands of, of, of millions of billions of trillions of elements to each of the cells, right, that, that make

• 15:33Speaker 02

  us a unified thing. But I'm still like, despite all of the multiple parts that make me up, which are super complex systems, I'm still like an identity when I look, when I look in the mirror and I think of myself when I was like five years old, being angry that, that I wasn't being given the fair amount of toys that the other kid in, in my daycare was being given, and I felt like that sense of injustice, there's still that certain feeling that I would say, even though I'm physically almost entirely a different person physiologically than when I was a five-year-old kid. Yeah. There's still certain feelings I have of like the anger of injustice, the anger of unfairness, you know, that, that still are something inside of me, that I associate somehow with my persona or personality that may be ephemeral in many other ways, because a lot of the things I liked or wanted to be when I was a kid, I don't have those same affinities. Right.

• 16:18Speaker 02

  I don't, I like pickles, I used to hate that. But then, so, the, I, I think when we start getting into the realm of first causes, from the mechanics, we tend to bring in some of the artifacts of like the assumption that there must be, like when we think about the creator and all of creation, an absolute beginning and an absolute end. Right. Because it's like, everything I see in my world has that, why not the entirety of the cosmos must also have a beginning moment in space and time? And then the question is like, is it some theological 6,000 years ago thing, or is it a bunch of? Modern, you know, statistical probability fixated quantum physicist mathematicians who are like arguing about it,

• 16:59Speaker 02

  whether it's 13.7 billion years ago with the big bang or 14 billion years ago, or now I think they just discovered it must be 16.9 billion years ago or something. They're having these like debates there forever, like the same kind of scholastic kind of debates of the how many angels can fit on the pinhole, the head of a pin.

• 17:16Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 17:16Speaker 02

  It's not that different in my mind. And so for me, I try to just look at, well, the qualities first, rather than try to quantify the time or the location in some presumed infinite Cartesian box in which, you know, everything just was created by either a big guy with a beard or whether some random spontaneous that just like popped out of the universe, you know, with some singularity.

• 17:41Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 17:42Speaker 02

  Which then has other implications to then I could, if I, either one of them, I could then dance and add layers to whether God did it 7,000 years ago or 8,000 or 9,000 or 6 billion years ago.

• 17:52Danny Jones?

  What do the young Earth creationists believe? What is their timeframe?

• 17:54Speaker 02

  I don't know. I thought it was 6,000, isn't it?

• 17:56Danny Jones?

  Yeah, that's probably right.

• 17:57Speaker 02

  That was the consensus.

• 17:58Danny Jones?

  Yeah, yeah. 6,000.

• 18:00Speaker 02

  But even then, there's probably some, some variety, some fake debate where they feel like they're having debates between how they interpret Genesis or something, you know? But it's a waste of time.

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• 18:53Danny Jones?

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• 19:29Speaker 02

  So the first things I try to focus on is just like, what are the ultimate core qualities first before quantity? That I can think about. That's why I use the example of my own body and my identity. As a, as an, you know, as something which transcends the some parts, the some total of the parts that make me up. And then I presume that there is some, some quality of the, the, the meta process, whatever it is that organizes the architecture of the entire, the entirety of the cosmos and its purpose and flow to whatever it is that's also organizing me as part of that, that an integral part of that creation. Or that process, I feel like there's probably the fact that I can, I can, I can, I can never know it. But I can at least conceptualize it.

• 20:14Speaker 02

  Means that there's some correlation on some level of me in the, the divine, whatever the, whatever that word is, whatever it means to different people.

• 20:23Danny Jones?

  Right. And there's that guy, I was talking to Kurt about this the other day. There's that guy, Robert Sapolsky, who thinks it's all a coping mechanism. Have you heard of that guy?

• 20:31Speaker 02

  No.

• 20:33Danny Jones?

  So his idea of all of this stuff, this, uh, this God shaped hole in the human mind is basically what that is. This, this guy's an expert. He's a primatologist and what else is he? Pull him up. Neurologist, primatologist, um, crazy looking homeless. He looks like a homeless dude, but he's really smart.

• 20:54Danny Jones?

  Yeah. So he thinks that, that this stuff is all a stress reducing mechanism and it's nature's antidepressant. And, uh, you know, because of the fact that we can never know this stuff, right? We have to come up with these stories in our heads, these stories that we tell ourselves to explain it to us. So we can go through life and not be like hyper vigilant 24/7.

• 21:16Danny Jones?

  You know, anyways, that's just there.

• 21:18Speaker 02

  So he's a primatologist.

• 21:22Speaker 02

  So his, his, his shtick is he's a neuroscientist and a primatologist. So he studies apes and the brain.

• 21:29Danny Jones?

  I guess, yeah, I don't know. I haven't read his books. I just like.

• 21:31Speaker 02

  I mean, there might be certain element of, I wouldn't, I wouldn't throw out the baby at the bathwater. And I would say that probably it's definitely.

• 21:38Danny Jones?

  It's an interesting data point. I mean, it's.

• 21:40Speaker 02

  It's a definite.

• 21:41Danny Jones?

  I'd be curious to read his books and actually learn what he really thinks.

• 21:43Speaker 02

  Sure, why not? But, you know, I think that definitely when you have a sense of a reason for something, even if it's, even if you're living in a pretty chaotic situation, that's kind of scary. Your, your emotional tone is definitely more inclined to meditate, meditative, like, okay, there's a reason for it at least. You're less inclined, like you said, being a hyper, hyper, what is it? Parasympathetic, over, override. So there's an element, I'm sure of like knowing that there's a reason for things or having an idea that there might be a reason for something happening. And I'm sure that part of the creation of a lot of the mythos, the same stories are rooted in there, but I wouldn't say that that would be all it is either.

• 22:26Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 22:26Speaker 02

  Because I think there is provable evidence that certain stories have embedded within them, lessons that bring us into greater wisdom with, and wisdom in my mind is not something detached from the objective harmonics or purposes or processes of the universe outside of us, that there's some, I don't know, maybe I'm wrong. Do you think that the, the idea of human wisdom might have, is, is something completely severed from objective truth? Or is it connected in some way in your mind?

• 23:00Danny Jones?

  I don't know. I'm not sure. So you think, you think it's, what's what?

• 23:08Speaker 02

  Well, I, I think I'm, I tend to think that it has something to do with increasing your power, one's power of discernment based upon standards that are connected to natural law.

• 23:25Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 23:27Speaker 02

  Like, not just your particular subjective flavor of what you want things to be, but the way things ontologically are outside of yourself that we can use to guide our discernment, our judgment of, um, the right course over a multitude of choices of paths that we take and that we have to choose from every moment.

• 23:48Danny Jones?

  So like how adaptable you are, maybe that would that would fit into it, how adaptable you are to to reality or to the subjective world.

• 23:55Speaker 02

  But you could adapt to something terrible, too. Like, you know, if somebody could be hyper-adapted to a Nazi fascist regime emerging and succeed in climbing through the ladders of success or whatever within the machinery of something that is otherwise based rooted on on some core, core, core fallacies that we should have picked up on, and they could become a very successful Tier Garden for euthanasia doctor, eliminating the unfit.

• 24:22Speaker 02

  And and be very respected in your community and career and be be published in prestigious Nazi journals, you know.

• 24:31Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 24:31Speaker 02

  But it doesn't necessarily mean that that was something that was the best or wisest choice for you to do as a human being. So I wouldn't say that it's necessarily just adaptability. I think.

• 24:42Danny Jones?

  Not just that, but that's certainly a part of it, right? Like, how how flexible you are to new situations, new environments, new people, and being able to basically like move through the world successfully and survive and.

• 25:00Speaker 02

  Or be willing to sometimes deem that it might be wiser to perhaps not be successful, not have a material.

• 25:10Danny Jones?

  I'm not talking materialism. I'm talking like successful in in in.

• 25:16Danny Jones?

  Successful in the biological way is in like

• 25:22Danny Jones?

  having children and like the evolution aspect of it and like thriving in a community and being a part of a community and contributing to other people's lives, contributing to your family and like that aspect of it. I'm not necessarily, I'm not talking about like a monetary.

• 25:41Speaker 02

  No, and that's definitely a good, but I wouldn't say that that's an absolute good thing because there's conditions around which I could, I could see and have seen examples of communities being, you know, you could have like a Rayleigh in community or whatever, like some community that is devoted to human sacrifice or something like that, that you may find yourself operating with.

• 26:03Danny Jones?

  Sure.

• 26:04Speaker 02

  And the question is, is that is it really such a noble thing that one is highly adapted to that particular community that they find themselves operating within, you know, or the other question too is sometimes was with Socrates.

• 26:16Danny Jones?

  Well, you would have to be not wise enough to stay the fuck away.

• 26:20Speaker 02

  As well, right? That's another factor in the whole thing too.

• 26:24Speaker 02

  But also like Socrates or Cicero are two men who at different times deemed that it were healthier for their, their souls health to take a course that involved their, their bodies dying at a certain moment in, in time when choices were made and both of them could have probably have made other compromises to survive and live out many more years. And yet they chose that based upon the objective circumstances that, that were around them, that it were best to take the course that they did.

• 26:50Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 26:50Speaker 02

  And drink the hemlock or face Mark Antony. Um, and lose your head. Which is what Cicero ended up doing as he was trying to fight to keep Rome from becoming a full blown empire and try to preserve its republican aspects before it fully embraced its, its new destiny. Socrates too, right, was seeing the, the.

• 27:12Speaker 02

  The virtuous elements of what made Athens viable from Solon's reforms onward slipping away as the sophists had increasingly taken over control of the government and the government had increasingly slipped into becoming more imperial in its behavior as it stabbed its allies in the back and created the Peloponnesian War, which was totally unnecessary. It was like taking allies and just saying, okay, now all of a sudden we're the most powerful game in town. So you're going to start paying us fealty now. And if you don't, it became like mafia logic. We're going to basically go to war, destroy you, which annihilated the several generations of Athenians when Socrates was still like becoming a man, living through that and trying to figure out how do you redeem that society that's on its way into darkness?

• 27:55Danny Jones?

  Yeah, but those dudes also kids too. So you can't really take it with, you can't, you gotta take it with a grain of salt.

• 28:00Speaker 02

  How much is slander? I mean, what evidence do we have that Socrates actually fucked kids?

• 28:06Danny Jones?

  Not maybe not Socrates, but a lot of people back then. There was so much child trafficking and pirating and fucking incest and orgies and.

• 28:14Speaker 02

  Nothing more to the sun, man, right?

• 28:16Danny Jones?

  They were fucking crazy back then.

• 28:17Speaker 02

  Epstein Island's a new thing and now.

• 28:19Danny Jones?

  Right. Yeah. How about Tiberias? Didn't he have a swimming pool full of like dead kids at one point or something?

• 28:24Speaker 02

  Well, that's yeah, the Isle of Capri was was quite the center of debauchery and Apollo Dynasius worship of, yeah, there's a lot of human sacrifice.

• 28:33Danny Jones?

  We've been talking about that a lot lately about like, and that's something I've been racking my brain on, like the connection between Epstein and like the ancient Greek Roman empire, the ancient Roman empires that were doing all this crazy shit, you know, and Epstein was, he was, what did he have? He had people call him, what was the movie Peter Lavenda told us about that Epstein modeled his island off of that he made people call him? The Magus. The Magus. Have you heard of that?

• 28:58Speaker 02

  I have not.

• 28:58Danny Jones?

  There's this movie called The Magus, and it's basically the same story.

• 29:02Speaker 02

  The Magus or the like?

• 29:03Danny Jones?

  Magus. Yeah, like Magi. And he, it was, it took place in Greece, actually. And there was this dude who had an island and he had underage girls go in there. And Epstein, he had a fucking temple that looked exactly like Epstein's temple to Poseidon on his island.

• 29:20Speaker 02

  Really?

• 29:21Danny Jones?

  Except he didn't have the blue stripes on it. That's the only difference. And there's emails, they're in, it's in the files where Epstein's making people email him, he's making them address him as Magus.

• 29:31Speaker 02

  Really?

• 29:32Danny Jones?

  Yeah. That's

• 29:34Speaker 02

  I heard that there was also somebody showed me an image too of, I think it's the Cavendish family of England that have a giant estate and on one of their estates is an almost exact replica and this is like a Norman family that came in with the Norman conquest under William and that's when like most of the elites of England and the, you know, had established themselves when they were granted sort of fiefdoms, perpetual fiefdoms in the doomsday book and I think it was, I'm sure it was the Cavendish family I think that, that has on one of their biggest estates, this exact replica of that, that temple, that little shrine thing.

• 30:07Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 30:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, I wish I could, I don't know if you were able to pull it up, Steve, I should have.

• 30:13Danny Jones?

  How would he find it if he searched?

• 30:15Speaker 02

  Epstein-like temple Cavendish family estate, maybe?

• 30:20Danny Jones?

  How do you spell that family?

• 30:21Speaker 02

  Cavendish, C-A-V-E-N-D-I-S-H now, it might be another family, I'm screwing up, but it's definitely one of the older Norman conquest families.

• 30:29Danny Jones?

  Interesting.

• 30:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, as far as you can go back, is that it?

• 30:33Speaker 03

  No, that's Epstein.

• 30:34Speaker 02

  No, that's the Epstein island, Chatsworth House, oh shucks, maybe I'm, maybe I've got the wrong British oligarchical family, could be possible.

• 30:45Speaker 03

  Epstein has overshadowed the search.

• 30:49Speaker 02

  Oh yeah, he dominated, that's okay, that's all right.

• 30:53Danny Jones?

  That's the one in the movie Magus.

• 30:54Speaker 02

  Oh yeah? On the left.

• 30:56Danny Jones?

  On the left, yeah, so it's not painted, but it's like, it's got the same dome on top, it's a little square, it's got the same, it's the same sort of like geographical type thing, like it's got something on the tip of an island surrounded by water.

• 31:08Speaker 02

  And what culture is this an homage to? Is this Egyptian or is this Babylon?

• 31:13Danny Jones?

  I think it's Greek, isn't it?

• 31:15Speaker 02

  Is it Greek?

• 31:16Danny Jones?

  Oh, the temple itself?

• 31:18Speaker 02

  The temple itself, yeah.

• 31:19Danny Jones?

  That's a good ques- I think it's, I think it's, I think it's supposed to be a temple to Poseidon.

• 31:24Speaker 02

  It's a Poseidon temple, okay.

• 31:26Danny Jones?

  That's what Giorgio Ani told me.

• 31:29Speaker 02

  Well, that would be, that would be interesting because that does have certain Atlantean.

• 31:34Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 31:35Speaker 02

  Uh.

• 31:35Danny Jones?

  Yeah, and they were obsessed with fucking, or Ghislaine had that Terramar shit where she was obsessed with finding Atlantis.

• 31:40Speaker 02

  Was she now?

• 31:41Danny Jones?

  Yeah, you heard of that?

• 31:42Speaker 02

  I knew, I knew of Terramar.

• 31:43Danny Jones?

  The Terramar.

• 31:44Speaker 02

  The Atlantean.

• 31:44Danny Jones?

  Yeah, so when she went, when she went on the run after Epstein himself, before they caught her, she, she changed her name to Janet Atlantis. And I guess Janet was based on like the Janet flights and like the unmarked airplanes and Atlantis was because she was obsessed with Atlantis and she had a submarine called the Atlantis. And she was literally trying to get permission from Castro to go dive, uh, take her submarine down to find those ruins off the coast of Cuba.

• 32:08Speaker 02

  Is that true now?

• 32:08Danny Jones?

  She was obsessed with Atlantis.

• 32:10Speaker 02

  I'll have to look into this. That's interesting.

• 32:12Danny Jones?

  There's a fascinating, I highly recommend Giorgio Gianni's Substack article on this. It's called, I think it's just called, uh, see if you can find it. Just type in Jason Giorgio Gianni, Janet Atlantis on Ghislaine and it, he breaks down the whole backstory and like all the connections she had, all the people that she met with and all the emails that she wrote about this. And she was even meeting with, she, Giorgio Gianni claims, I don't know where his source was, but he says that, uh, she had, uh, a sexual relationship with Jacques Cousteau's daughter, maybe?

• 32:46Speaker 02

  Really?

• 32:47Danny Jones?

  Something like that. Someone related to Jacques Cousteau, another woman.

• 32:49Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 32:50Danny Jones?

  But.

• 32:51Speaker 02

  Well, Jacques, Jacques Cousteau is another out of whack one there, eh? I, I didn't.

• 32:56Danny Jones?

  I don't know much about him other than he's really into the ocean.

• 32:58Speaker 02

  Well, also he's, he's got this obsession with global, uh, depopulation. I think.

• 33:01Danny Jones?

  Is he really?

• 33:02Speaker 02

  Two hundred million people should be all, all that is permitted under a, a healthy society that's in equilibrium with nature.

• 33:07Danny Jones?

  Ocean outlaw, a portrait of Ghislaine Maxwell.

• 33:09Speaker 02

  All right, I'll check that out.

• 33:09Danny Jones?

  That's really good.

• 33:10Speaker 02

  July twenty.

• 33:12Danny Jones?

  Last July, right?

• 33:14Speaker 02

  Okay, well, that's interesting. That's very interesting.

• 33:17Danny Jones?

  What does it say about, okay, whoa, whoa, whoa, what does this say? Um, what, what is?

• 33:22Speaker 02

  Janet Stevenson? No.

• 33:23Danny Jones?

  What does it say about Cousteau?

• 33:27Danny Jones?

  J A C Q U

• 33:32Danny Jones?

  There you go. Okay, Guilene's fascination with Atlantis and with the oceans began with her childhood on account of her father's friendship with Jacques Cousteau. Not only was Robert Maxwell friends with Jacques Cousteau, but Captain Bob's Lady Guilene yacht was also eventually fitted out with equipment designs and design features provided through channels connected through Cousteau's Oceanographic Network. And as reported by the Jark Journalist, Cousteau confessed to Maxwell that his lifelong exploration of the oceans was secretly and obsessively motivated by the quest to find Atlantis. Guilene, who is bisexual, according to Giorgiani, tried to cultivate a relationship with Cousteau's granddaughter Alexandra, who has denied the witness testimony, but she was on the island

• 34:16Danny Jones?

  with Maxwell and Epstein. Fucking crazy.

• 34:19Speaker 02

  That is interesting. Yeah, I...

• 34:23Danny Jones?

  So he wanted depopulation?

• 34:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, he's a big...I think 200 million was his number of what should be permitted under a healthy, like a healthy homeostatic society that is in harmony, in his idea of harmony with nature, right?

• 34:38Danny Jones?

  When did he say this?

• 34:40Speaker 02

  You can Google it, Jacques Cousteau depopulation, 200 million. I can't say when he said it, but it's something that's pretty well-known. He was not hiding that. It's not like his esoteric, secret doctrine.

• 34:54Danny Jones?

  Right, right.

• 34:55Speaker 02

  I'm sure you'll be able to find something.

• 34:57Danny Jones?

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• 35:40Danny Jones?

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• 36:09Speaker 02

  I think that part of the idea of a lot of these, and I'll, we can jump back to the Atlantis pursuit thing, but when it comes to a lot of the ideals of the radical ecologists like Jacques Cousteau, who I used to really enjoy his nature shows when I was a kid, is that, again, it comes out of this second law of thermodynamics obsession that is the artifact of extrapolating the heat engine, like, dynamics onto the whole universe that occurred in the end part of the 19th century around the Royal Society.

• 36:44Danny Jones?

  Remind me the second law of thermodynamics?

• 36:46Speaker 02

  That's that all systems are entropic, that are, that all systems are inclined towards a heat death.

• 36:51Danny Jones?

  Yeah, entropy always goes up, never goes down, right?

• 36:53Speaker 02

  Entropy goes up, yeah, exactly, never goes down. There's never gonna be more, and that's because when you put gasoline in a gas tank, that gas tank is not gonna produce more gasoline as it burns fuel to make the pistons move and to make it do its function, unless you go from an external source to put in from the outside more gas.

• 37:10Danny Jones?

  Order, order never goes up over time. Order always goes down over time.

• 37:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 37:15Danny Jones?

  Everything gets more chaotic.

• 37:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. The singularities diminish, the chances for doing interesting things diminish over time to the point of nothing really ever happening that's of interest for them. So the norm in that type of world is that everything is assumed to be a closed system. That's, that's one of the laws of thermodynamics, that you have to assume that everything is a closed system. Now, that's not actually true. Nothing is a closed system. Like, even the ecosystem on the Earth is not a closed system, though the Jacques Cousteauians and the ecologists would like to believe it is, because it's clearly being driven by forces that are outside of the closed system, right? It's outside of the Earth, so you have the Sun.

• 37:50Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 37:51Speaker 02

  Coming down. Oh, there we go.

• 37:55Danny Jones?

  In order to stabilize world population, we must eliminate 350,000 people a day. It is a terrible thing to say, but in order to stabilize world population, we must eliminate 300,000. Okay, how does he want to do this?

• 38:07Speaker 02

  Well, usually are, so they don't actually, it's not 200 million, eh? It's a, okay, so two.

• 38:13Danny Jones?

  He wants to, okay, when calculated.

• 38:14Speaker 02

  So what does he think the chomeostasis would be 1.3 billion over a decade kills? Uh, or what does he think is the normal quantity that should be allowed to exist based on that calculation? That's a derivative of an idea of what you think the normal should be, right?

• 38:30Danny Jones?

  Kusto viewed unchecked demographic expansion as short-term thinking. As a form of a societal cancer that was destroying marine and terrestrial ecosystems.

• 38:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 38:43Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 38:43Speaker 02

  Right.

• 38:43Danny Jones?

  This is what that one guy Gad Saad would call suicidal empathy, right?

• 38:47Speaker 02

  I guess that would be very much that. Yeah, so part of the idea of the ecosystem that he would, he would have problems with is the idea that it is is actually old. It's being shaped by, like I mentioned, the sun, but you've got cosmic radiation. You've got solar flares. You've got effects from other star systems. You've got the balance of all of the planets in our solar system.

• 39:06Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 39:06Speaker 02

  Which is being, which is influencing the phenomenon of what's going on in the earth in terms of like, uh, even earthquakes, different things that are going on, you know, with the, the ionosphere, which allows in, depending on the pulsation of the ionosphere, the weakness or the strength of it will allow in greater or lesser degrees of cosmic radiation. That's the driving force of cloud seeding.

• 39:24Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 39:25Speaker 02

  Cloud seeding is what is driving whether there's more or less clouds on average over the course of a decade is going to cause more or less heat to, you know, be accrued within the greenhouse effect. So clouds are definitely, you know, more clouds, more cold, less clouds, more warm, you know, duh. And that's all being driven, and there's this movie by Heinrich, or a documentary by Heinrich Svensmark, who's a Danish scientist who's really got his career almost annihilated. But it's a great documentary going through his work, uh, back in 2008 to 12, proving the driving role of cosmic rays in regulating global climate. Um, the Cloud Mystery is the name of it. It's a really great one.

• 40:02Danny Jones?

  The Cloud Mystery?

• 40:03Speaker 02

  The Cloud Mystery, fantastic documentary. If you could talk to this guy, it's-

• 40:06Danny Jones?

  Cloud Mystery Doc?

• 40:07Speaker 02

  Cloud Mystery Documentary, yeah. Heinrich Svensberg.

• 40:09Danny Jones?

  And he almost got kicked out of his university?

• 40:11Speaker 02

  He couldn't get published anymore. He couldn't get grants, couldn't get anything because he wouldn't shut up about his research, which was very peer reviewed. It was completely like-

• 40:19Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 40:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it was really, really, it's tight.

• 40:23Danny Jones?

  So what was it about again?

• 40:24Speaker 02

  It's about the, the real causes of climate change.

• 40:27Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 40:28Speaker 02

  As not being really that, that seriously affected by human made CO2.

• 40:32Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 40:32Speaker 02

  But rather more being affected by these natural cycles of cosmic ray entries into our, um, because there's the ocean, the universe is an ocean of cosmic radiation.

• 40:45Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 40:45Speaker 02

  Which being generated from suns, from, from supernova, from everything, from nebula, quasars, everything is generating and we don't understand most of this, but it's, it's saturating the plasma that is, that is most of the universe. And so what is regulating its, its flux into our own biosphere is the Van Allen Belt, is the, the magnetic field, which vacillates according to certain variables of which we have the sun's magnetic field, which itself, you know, flips every 11 years. So the sun's magnetic field, which can become stronger, sometimes it can embrace more of the planets within the solar system. It's sometimes fewer as it, as it diminishes in influence.

• 41:24Speaker 02

  So when that happens, then we, more of the external, extra, uh, solar systemic cosmic rays will enter deeper, penetrate deeper into the solar system, including our own Earth, right? Which means Aurora Borealis-

• 41:39Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 41:39Speaker 02

  Will increase in intensity. And, um, and then there's other forces too, right? Because the sun, our own galaxy is part of a cluster of other galax- of other solar systems. So we have other solar systems, you know, that are also influencing on subtle but very real, real ways, our own solar system. And then we've got our own galaxy that's part of a cluster of other galaxies.

• 42:00Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 42:01Speaker 02

  You've got like the M13, you've got the Andromeda. Um, so all of these things are variables that are all contextually shaping what people would like to otherwise think is closed systems in a localized region because it helps them sort of make sense and understand things because they can map out what are those simple cycles that, that cause-

• 42:21Danny Jones?

  Right. But when you zoom out, you realize it's all fucking chaos. Especially when you zoom out and look at the history of the climate on the Earth. And you see how it's been going up and down for millions of years, like insane. Like, we're actually in a cooling period right now. Pull up that Washington Post article that shows that amazing graph of the climate over like the last, I think it was one million years. And it shows you like all the times, like way back, even way before like the younger dry as period, when the, when the climate plunged down and then went shot way up. And I think even like the medieval, like the famous medieval warm period was way warmer. The global average temperature was warmer than it is now.

• 42:58Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 42:58Danny Jones?

  And that's like one of the times where human beings have made like the most astounding artwork and like cathedrals and building and construction.

• 43:06Speaker 02

  So what are we looking at there?

• 43:07Danny Jones?

  So zoom in a little bit, Steve. So this is, okay, this is the last 485 million years right here. And see that little hockey stick on the, on the very, very right?

• 43:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:18Danny Jones?

  That's just the last, uh, like million years?

• 43:25Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, I know that little blip up, that would be probably the, the halosene, the halosene warming. So for the last like 8,000 years, since the big floods.

• 43:33Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 43:34Speaker 02

  Happened like what? 10 to 12,000 years ago?

• 43:36Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 43:37Speaker 02

  There's, we were in, what, what's been in norm, I've seen graphs that zero into the last couple of million years. This one's like a big scoped graph. I don't know how they exactly get all of that data, but I know the ones that I've seen that, that localized things in like the last two, three million years, um, that sort of zero in on the right side. They make, like, the point has been, I think, pretty clearly drawn that we, the norm for the past 2 million years has been ice age. So we've been living mo- most of the time over, over the last 2 million years has been ice age. And then every 80 or 90,000 years or so, you get these little blips of warming that last for about 8 to 10,000 years. And then it goes back down to the norm of 80 to 90,000 years of ice age. So the, and then, and then you get another little blip, you know, that lasts about that certain.

• 44:20Danny Jones?

  80 to 90,000 years of ice age?

• 44:22Speaker 02

  Of ice age. And then you got these little blips. Now, there might be areas around the equator and stuff where there's still, you know, like foliage and things. I don't think it goes to full like ice ball. Uh, I don't think it goes back to full ice ball, cause that would.

• 44:34Danny Jones?

  But look, we're, we're in like one of the, according to this graph, we're in one of the coolest periods. That the earth has been in.

• 44:40Speaker 02

  It's it's very according to this graph. Yeah, I mean, that's that's wild. And I mean, but that would be like when it gets really cold there. What is that? That's like 12 million years ago, halfway marked between the 25 to the present.

• 44:51Danny Jones?

  About, yeah.

• 44:52Speaker 02

  So that's 25 million years, and then it starts getting colder and colder and colder. Again, it's it's got a lack of of.

• 44:58Danny Jones?

  See if you can find, Steve, see if you can find a graph similar to this, but just for like the last 500,000 years or something.

• 45:06Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, that'd be good.

• 45:06Danny Jones?

  Or a million, or or a million years would be better. One million years, I think, is safer.

• 45:10Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah, but but from what I've read, and I'm not an expert in this stuff, I'm like, you you're trying to make sense of like the best data and hopefully make the wisest choices along the way.

• 45:20Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 45:21Speaker 02

  That's, I guess, an example of like us trying to pursue wisdom, right? Like, we're trying to have our subjective internal thoughts be informed by objective criteria outside of ourselves as best as possible.

• 45:31Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 45:32Speaker 02

  That we can then judge when somebody is giving us a sophisticated line of fake reasoning that's full of flaws versus somebody who's giving us.

• 45:39Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 45:39Speaker 02

  A more whole, integrated.

• 45:41Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm. And you also can't rely on these on these cheap graphs posted on websites.

• 45:45Speaker 02

  No, exactly.

• 45:46Danny Jones?

  A lot of these people, these websites are biased, like they try to simplify shit, you know, a lot of it's wrong.

• 45:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, and a lot of the scalar metrics that they're using are based on arbitrary assumptions that are flawed themselves, right? Like, a lot of them will even use.

• 45:58Danny Jones?

  Unfortunately, the truth of shit is a lot more boring.

• 46:03Speaker 02

  Well, you know, it's, did you find the the graph? 2000, there's nothing like midway that gets like a million or two.

• 46:09Danny Jones?

  You can't find a, you can't find a 1 million year graph, Steve?

• 46:11Speaker 02

  There must be.

• 46:12Danny Jones?

  How about if you ask one of your AIs?

• 46:13Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, get an AI to do it.

• 46:16Danny Jones?

  Tell your AI to give you a graph.

• 46:20Danny Jones?

  Yeah, the boring truth of stuff. It's not, it's not all, it's not always easy to condense things and then wrap it up in a little bow. You know what I mean?

• 46:26Speaker 02

  Well, it takes work and rigor, and I think a lot of people, they want the easy answer so they don't have to use the the mind muscle.

• 46:33Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 46:33Speaker 02

  And that's.

• 46:35Danny Jones?

  That's why we have chat GPT, brother.

• 46:37Speaker 02

  Oh, that's scary.

• 46:37Danny Jones?

  Do your own research. We make a one stop shop. You want to do your own research? Do it. Go ahead and do it. We give you a chat GPT. Just type in a text. We'll give you all the answers.

• 46:44Speaker 02

  Well, Google is even like getting rid of the fines, right? The hits now and the objective is to just have a one answer solution to every Google insert where you get the official AI answer to everything and that's it. You should just be satisfied with the world brain. It's H G Wells's fantasy come alive right there, right? Cybernetic control. That's scary.

• 47:03Danny Jones?

  That's really scary.

• 47:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:05Danny Jones?

  Especially considering Google was created by DARPA.

• 47:07Speaker 02

  Well, as well, right?

• 47:09Danny Jones?

  And the CIA.

• 47:11Speaker 02

  But I think that that's where, yeah, like it's so important that we that we cherish the this gift of the mind that that can be just the source of so much joy and happiness. And I think the whatever it is that that is this nasty thing that's been latched onto humanity, whatever you want to call it, or whatever you want to like identify it as that has allowed for has carried out such atrocities like nine 11 as as something done do as a sacrifice to people living here in in the United States.

• 47:43Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 47:43Speaker 02

  In order to justify this expansionist, you know, surveillance grid and policy of a new crusade in the Middle East and whatever else came out of that as a as different, you know, clusters of intention that were all bad.

• 47:57Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 47:58Speaker 02

  Whatever it is, it wants us to have lazy reason. It doesn't want us to utilize this thing that tends to when it when we do water that that metaphysical garden, we tend to come up with solution concepts to problems that are foreboding, that we're not supposed to think about when faced with objective problems that we could then look at, think about, wrap our minds around, be informed by historical lessons, act accordingly. We tend to be a lot less inclined to just adapt to some slave cage or some choice given to us to say, okay, you can be free with a number of flavors inside this particular cage. And we don't play those types of, you know, closed system games.

• 48:35Danny Jones?

  Right. Dude, I thought it was very interesting what you you just reminded me when you were talking to Kurt on the podcast and you. Explain to me what you were, what you were describing when you said something about, you guys were talking about like, Flat Earth in the context of giving somebody like another, another option. Like when you try to, when, when Pete, when science, or when an institution, or, or any sort of form of power tries to declare something as like, being correct, or being like, the paradigm, right? They will create this sort of like, like, like creating an adversarial scarecrow.

• 49:16Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, like controlled dialectic stuff. Yeah, I think we were throwing out, the example I think was also Darwinism. I think we were chatting about that a little bit.

• 49:22Danny Jones?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 49:23Speaker 02

  It was like when Thomas Huxley, who was Darwin's like manager or handler.

• 49:26Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 49:26Speaker 02

  Was setting up the debates. He was probably, that's what we talked more about.

• 49:29Danny Jones?

  Yes, that's what it was.

• 49:30Speaker 02

  Um, when he was framing the debates to market this new explanation, this new explanatory model of the origins of species, Darwin first of all, wasn't equipped to go and defend his own positions in public, but Thomas Huxley was the one who carried most of the weight, and was really sardonic, had a lot of wit, was really good at eviscerating his opponents. But he also made a point to, um, set up these highly, highly covered, like, media events, with him and usually some super rigid Anglican creationist, rigid creationist opponent, who he would then set up as the opponent to, to science, which would be usually him, representing Darwin. And of course, then, you know, if you know exactly the core axioms

• 50:12Speaker 02

  of the creationist rigid, you know, uh, the Bible is the literal truth of God framework, then you can make fun of it, you can run circles around it if you've got more to play with. But then all of the other contemporaries of Darwin, who were biologists, who were also acknowledging the evidence of species changes, mutability, adaptability, but didn't, but weren't Darwinian. They didn't have the Darwinian, uh, Trojan horse assumptions that they were carrying into their own doctrines, you know, and you could look at people like Karl Ernst von Behr, a great, uh, German scientist.

• 50:43Danny Jones?

  What do you, what do you mean when you say Trojan horse assumptions?

• 50:45Speaker 02

  Uh, core axioms. So like Darwin had a lot of, uh, he, his, his account would explain. Explain empirically a lot of the the elements of what we would see species do when they adapted to environments.

• 50:57Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 50:58Speaker 02

  But it wouldn't explain, number one, the environments, which were assumed to be the sum total of the species that make up the environment. So there was this this assumption that wholes are the sum of parts, that there's nothing more than the sum of parts that make up.

• 51:08Danny Jones?

  Got it.

• 51:08Speaker 02

  Eco. Number two, another core Trojan horse axiom I would say about Darwinism is that there was the assumption in Darwin's mind that everything was the the mutability factor was a random function on the very small. So what would give one one a member of a species an advantage to have more sex or to eat more in a limited environment of diminishing returns was kind of a rolling of the dice function of something on the small, some mutation that was ultimately random in its essence. And you weren't allowed to think otherwise. You weren't allowed to have another hypothesis that maybe it's not random. Maybe there's something that is not a random function that gives that one item, that one character, the big claw to kill his his enemies or to have more sex or whatever, run a little bit faster or whatever.

• 51:52Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 51:54Speaker 02

  The other thing I would say is is there was an assumption of no directionality. So Darwin said in his, if you want to be a Darwinian, you cannot allow the assumption that there's any directionality. There's no teleology, there's no purposefulness thus outside of the systems that you're trying to explain. It's all based upon ultimately some form of Hobbesian might makes right idea of, you know, the strongest will survive, the weakest will perish.

• 52:21Danny Jones?

  Got it.

• 52:21Speaker 02

  So kind of taking the laws of the British East India Company that they use practically to justify their own expansion and destruction of the darker skinned races. And then to apply it now and make it scientifically a valid principle of nature as an assumption, not proven, but as an assumption. Thus, kind of whether by designer or not, then justifying the empire's own atrocious controlled genocides of India, which it oversaw Malthusian. So the empire was consciously reducing the population of India through controlled famines on a periodic basis over two centuries. And then it would say, well, that's just the way it is. If if we weren't the most fit to survive and they and the Indians were, they would be the ones dominating us overseeing our depopulation. So it's not that way, is it?

• 53:05Speaker 02

  Thus, come on, you know, metal meets the road. And the other thing too is I would say Darwin, in his own autobiography, admitted that he derived his theory of a world of diminishing returns where the the strongest survive and thrive and adapt and the the weak perish by reading Malthus's Essays on the Principles of Population, which is a 1799 essay that Malthus published as not an objective scientist or a social scientist, the way he tried to portray himself to be, because the man himself was a teacher at the the Haleybury College, which was the official college that would train all of the British East India Company administrators. So it is the official college of the British East India Company that he was a disciple

• 53:49Speaker 02

  of, trying to create some theory of overpopulation and how to how to act preventively on future crises of of population overrides, right? Because he was like, oh, the mathematical law that he discovered, which was never a law, was that populations, human populations, will always grow geometrically while agriculture always grows arithmetically. Thus, you could foresee if you extrapolate current trends into the future where the the one, the population will override the resources to sustain our people. And thus, the wise enlightened administrator of this dismal science, as it came to be known by people who were also his followers, like his students, like Ricardo and John

• 54:34Speaker 02

  Stuart Mill and John, you know, James Mill. They they called it the dismal science because it was like, these are, these are tools. The this mathematical ratio becomes a way to then use, as he, as Malthus says, the gifts that God had given us, famine, war, the plague, to organize controlled population reductions before we hit that crisis, flatten the curve. So that's like some disgusting stuff. It's all in his first edition of his of his Essays on Population.

• 55:03Danny Jones?

  Whose essays are you talking about?

• 55:05Speaker 02

  That's that's Thomas Malthus.

• 55:07Danny Jones?

  That's Malthus.

• 55:07Speaker 02

  Yeah. Uh, yeah, there it is. The essays on principle of population. Yeah, the population growth increases geometrically exponentially while food supplies only increase arithmetically.

• 55:19Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 55:20Speaker 02

  And again, he totally, so he foresaw that by the end of the 19th century, uh, there would be a cataclysmic, like Armageddon-like situation unless we acted preventively then in whatever 1798.

• 55:33Danny Jones?

  Oh, wow.

• 55:34Speaker 02

  Um, and he, he ignored, this is where the better theoreticians, including the enemies of Darwin, James Dwight Dana, being one major American biologist who was coming up with his own theories of cephalization as a way of explaining the mechanisms of what causes the flow of, of new species and the adaptability based upon, uh, the, the increased tendency of the nervous system to, uh, biologically centralized control, uh, that take more influence from earlier species that were more quadrupedal, you know, that didn't have the arrangement that the human mind is, or the human brain has, that there's been like this, this tendency in all species to, to organize in, like basically.

• 56:17Speaker 02

  Okay, there's a lot, there's, there's a lot of segues here I could take, so I won't. But all of these guys, whether it's Carl Ernst von Behr, um, who was looking at more the harmonics of how whole systems will tend to grow, um, with, uh, some sense of tempering, some well-tempered harmony. So if you're a musician, you know, you're thinking about how do you create your octave in multiple octaves? There's a, there's an idea that you can't mathematically fit all octaves because the relationship will, will change the harmonics and how they, how each octave relates to each other. So you have to

• 56:45Danny Jones?

  Yeah, right.

• 56:46Speaker 02

  go for a more well-tempering thing that uses an instinct, a musical instinct that will allow for, um, the piano or whatever instrument you're trying to tune. And that was informing a lot of the best scientists. So there was an idea that musicality, harmonics was something to inform our, our formation of hypotheses that explain biological, physiologic, or even physics. And Carl Ernst von Behr was just a pioneering scientist who was looking at the role of creativity, how something new that didn't, that was more than the sum total of its parts could occasionally express itself that didn't have

• 57:21Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 57:21Speaker 02

  100% uh, precedent in previous systems.

• 57:25Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 57:26Speaker 02

  Um, like the mammal emerging out of systems where there was no evidence of mammalian life and then all of a sudden there was. Now there's elements where the mammal in the earlier I don't know, I guess reptilians or whatever, previous proto mammalions. There, but we don't see gradualism. So there's not a gradual emergence of one species slowly, gradually evolving.

• 57:44Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 57:45Speaker 02

  Over time into a new species, you tend to get these quantum leaps.

• 57:49Danny Jones?

  Right, like apes and us.

• 57:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, like there's correlations. You couldn't have us were, they're not apes that appeared.

• 57:56Danny Jones?

  Well, there's more ape-like people walking around for sure. But like, there's clearly like a huge gap.

• 58:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, or at some points, there was no evidence of material life on the earth and there was. And, and that's like, that's a nonlinear leap that there wasn't material, like living matter. And then there was. There, there wasn't photosynthesis. And then there was.

• 58:18Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 58:18Speaker 02

  So these nonlinear leaps are really important and oftentimes, whole systems will change. That's another thing with Darwin, when I was talking about Trojan horse assumptions, that's another thing. He's, he's presuming gradualism. He's, he's kind of banning the idea of creative leaps. Now, going back to, to Malthus, that's also what Malthus is doing. Cause Malthus is saying, these, these dismal cataclysms that I forecast will happen if you don't have creative thought introducing new scientific discoveries that translate into new technologies that allow us to overcome those limits to growth. He's an expert at the limits.

• 58:49Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 58:50Speaker 02

  And so, he's, and, and all of these, these much more human, I would say, people who have much more intact with their human faculties, who are competent administrators, scientists, economists who are advising Lincoln in those days are, are making very, very solid critiques. It's not me coming up with this. This is people like Henry C. Carey and, and Henry Clay, like leading American statesmen, who are all making the point. Malthus is ignoring the fundamental thing that humans do when we're being natural and loving and good and we're, we're, we're being creative. And we're being problem solvers. And we're translating new discoveries that are metaphysical into applications that allow us to overcome those limits to growth and have more people at a higher quality of life.

• 59:34Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 59:35Speaker 02

  Which Malthus denies, like ontologically denies, and Darwin also denies.

• 59:40Danny Jones?

  Yeah, because ideas are kind of like life forms, right?

• 59:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 59:43Danny Jones?

  Like the, something that just comes out of, that pops into your brain from who knows where.

• 59:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 59:47Danny Jones?

  I mean, people don't know where consciousness comes from, but like, it seems to come out of the air. And then you can literally put it on paper, draw it, put materials together and build it, and then it becomes a thing. Then it gets, bleeds into society.

• 1:00:00Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:00:00Danny Jones?

  And it becomes part of like the collective unconscious. And before you know, I mean, this is like the, what was, I think I was just reading this on one of the Heather Lynn things, or whatever, when she was talking about, um, one of her recent articles where she's talking about sigils and shit. She's talking about like corporations and stuff, being like, uh, modern day egregores.

• 1:00:18Speaker 02

  She's brilliant. She, she does some.

• 1:00:19Danny Jones?

  Yeah, she's awesome.

• 1:00:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, the, the.

• 1:00:23Danny Jones?

  But like, it's like, it's weird, right? It, it is weird that like, that, that's a fundamental thing that we still don't fucking get. Like where, where, where does creativity come from? What is creativity? Where do ideas come from?

• 1:00:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's, it's a gift that keeps on giving, that one, right? I mean.

• 1:00:37Danny Jones?

  It's the muse.

• 1:00:38Speaker 02

  Well, you know, that's the thing. Well, what are the, yeah. And so there, there's different, different ways of trying to express it, uh, this creative thing that's just so magical.

• 1:00:47Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:48Speaker 02

  You know, there's stories of the nine muses and there's, the Asians have their own stories.

• 1:00:52Danny Jones?

  The nine muses? There's nine muses?

• 1:00:53Speaker 02

  Nine muses.

• 1:00:54Danny Jones?

  Is it nine?

• 1:00:55Speaker 02

  Is it seven?

• 1:00:55Danny Jones?

  That's freaky if it's nine.

• 1:00:56Speaker 02

  I thought it was nine.

• 1:00:57Danny Jones?

  I don't know, find out.

• 1:00:58Speaker 02

  Getting to the nine, uh.

• 1:01:01Danny Jones?

  I thought you were gonna take me down the Puhara rabbit hole.

• 1:01:05Speaker 02

  They're all dancing around serious. Um, no, I, but, but you know, everyone's trying to make sense of it. So they, they will.

• 1:01:11Danny Jones?

  I think you're right. I think it is nine.

• 1:01:13Speaker 02

  I thought it was nine muses. Yeah.

• 1:01:16Speaker 02

  But.

• 1:01:16Danny Jones?

  I thought about, I thought about, uh, putting one of the muses in each of these windows.

• 1:01:20Speaker 02

  You need more mu, more windows, dude.

• 1:01:21Danny Jones?

  I know we don't have enough. I just have to pick my favorite five.

• 1:01:24Speaker 02

  Well, you can also have a window hosting multiple muses.

• 1:01:28Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 1:01:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, Urania, Thalia, Malpanani.

• 1:01:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. So there's quantifiable, there's something quantifiable. Like, this is where I think, again, the value of looking at the anti-Darwinian, anti-empirical school of science that is rooted in something, I think, more useful, has value, because, like, looking at harmony, just as an idea, it's something which has given us so much as a concept. Those who hold the hypothesis that maybe beyond the chaos of something that appears chaotic, actually, there's some form of discoverable reason. Right. Some purposefulness, or whatever. And, like, the planets, right? Why are they located where they are? Well, if you read Kepler, who did the most to describe and provide his three laws, he was holding the idea of Plato, as outlined in the Timaeus Dialogue,

• 1:02:19Speaker 02

  that he cites extensively in his Harmonies of the World, that he published in 1619. And in that book, that outlines how he came to his third law, which is one of the few elements of classical physics that still has application within the domain of quantum mechanics. His third law is still super useful. Most other things were thrown out of the Newtonian school, but his was still very useful. He shows you how, so he's citing Plato, he's citing Plato's Timaeus, as what gave him the idea of the hypothesis that there is some musical tempering that is tied to some geometric ratios that are rooted in discoverability, so the sound of the square, the sound of the triangle, the sound of the pentagon. Right. Which Plato's outlining in the Timaeus Dialogue. But Plato didn't have the observational

• 1:03:03Speaker 02

  data to necessarily take it to the next level, whereas by the time Kepler was alive, he could. So, well, with those ratios, he's been able to then test out, well, okay, if we look at the minimum-maxima of each of the planets that are knowable in his time, so take the closest and the furthest distances when the planet is moving at its slowest and its quickest speeds, you could take those intervals, and then ask, are they...

• 1:03:33Speaker 02

  Are they random? Or is there a reason? And he was able to then demonstrate that there is a musicality that the Earth, for example, within its elliptical orbit is moving from a mid to a fa, which he makes a little joy, a little joke. It's like, maybe that's why there's so much misery and famine in the world, because he's living in the Thirty Years' War, right? The world is slipping into chaos. And he's writing this in order to, and he's very clear in his, in his opening message to James, uh, no, this is, no, this was, I forget which, which patron, which, which king was, was providing some sponsorship, but he was making a point like, I'm, I want you as a leader who can do something about the political climate that's going into a Thirty Years' War.

• 1:04:16Speaker 02

  It becomes a destructive, I mean, anybody who's looked into that is disgusted by it. It was like millions of Christians killing Christians for thirty years. It was a bloodbath. His own father dies as a mercenary.

• 1:04:27Danny Jones?

  What were the, what were the years, what was the timeframe for that war?

• 1:04:29Speaker 02

  Sixteen nineteen to sixteen forty-eight.

• 1:04:31Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:04:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, so he could see it, he could see it clearly where everything was going as a Christian versus Protestant forever war, kind of. And he's trying to get across that, hey, look, we, we lack a sense of the higher, uh, purpose of creation. People just lack that. And so because of that lack of, of a sense of, like, the universe being discoverable and thus, you know, has certain attributes that we would, should want to admire and be more dignified in our lives and are, and less sloppy in our thinking. He, that was his way of intervening on his world was to say, okay, let's, let's prove it. Let's not just say it's, it's, it's some flaky statement, but let's actually prove it, which then guides his discovery of the Third Planetary Law, which is his harmonic law,

• 1:05:15Speaker 02

  that again, is based upon the idea that it's, it's, it's a mathematical proof that if you take the, the average distance of any planet from the Sun cubed, and you compare that to the period, the, the, the temporal periodicity of the planet's rotation around the Sun squared, together, there's a, there's a consistency of all of the planets that have that same relationship of the, the, the average distance cubed to the, uh, the periodicity squared. That would be maintained, right? And that's his third law. His second law was proven in sixteen oh eight or oh nine with his new astronomy.

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• 1:06:50Speaker 02

  Which prove that, that of all possible shapes, it cannot be a circle, the orbits must, it just, it can't be circular, they can't be oval, they can only be ellipses that account for all of the anomalies of the retrograde motions. Right, right, right. Of Mars, and even Jupiter has its own retrograde every 20 years. Mars is like every 687 days, and he's like, these retrogrades, when it appears as though the planet moves back for like two weeks, Mars, and then back into its natural cycle, to do it all over again 687 days later, at a slightly different place, according to the backdrop of the fixed stars, or the Zodiac. The only way to account for that properly would be if the, if we imagine that ellipses

• 1:07:34Speaker 02

  are what are shaping the behavior of those planetary orbits and not the popular dogma which was circles. Circles don't work. Right. Because that forces you then to create epicycles and circles on top of circles to account for these weird little things, which you could, again, angels arguing on a pinhead of a needle, you could, you know, have all sorts of infinite theories that appear to be a debate. Yes. So, again, the idea of harmonics, for me and the Nine uses, is that in a harmony... Just like Plato gets across in the Philebus Dialogue on how do we judge right and wrong and good and evil? Do we use pleasure and pain as our standard or do we have a better standard that is not simply pleasure and pain?

• 1:08:14Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:14Speaker 02

  He looks at the example of harmony and vowels and consonants. And so you have the idea of that within an infinite spectrum of sound, there are certain quantized moments that we can consider to be harmonious as consonants, which then Plato takes even further in the Timaeus Dialogue, that each of those consonants are generated by certain shapes that are discoverable, like the square to the triangle, and how the square will generate a certain ratio.

• 1:08:45Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 1:08:45Speaker 02

  If you inscribe it within a circle of the same circumference to another circle that has a triangle within it.

• 1:08:51Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:08:52Speaker 02

  Right, and one would have...

• 1:08:54Danny Jones?

  This is work on forms, right?

• 1:08:56Speaker 02

  It all ties into it.

• 1:08:57Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:58Speaker 02

  But yeah, in the case of the square, you would create within one half and one. So if you have like an octave, an octave is just half the string to the whole string, right?

• 1:09:08Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:09:08Speaker 02

  Or half the circle to the whole circle. And then if you put a square in there, then you get three-fourths as sound. So you could hear the sound of what that three-fourths would be to the one-fourth or to the half.

• 1:09:18Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:09:18Speaker 02

  And then you could do the same for the triangle that has two-thirds to one-third. And then here, how does that sound in tandem with the square sound of the three-fourths? The sesquialterit to the sesquiterciat. Or then you could even take something to the Pentagon. And just, once you build the Pentagon, and Kepler's very clear, you can't just build a Pentagon. You have to discover how you built that Pentagon. You have to read Luca Pacioli like he did.

• 1:09:42Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:09:43Speaker 02

  And you have to then figure out, okay, what is the square root of five over one?

• 1:09:46Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:46Speaker 02

  And then when you build it, you discover, okay, well, I now know it. I've worked on the squares, I've looked at the, I've actually done the geometry, and now I can hear the sound of the... It'll make more sense, it'll be more meaningful when I actually build that Pentagon around that circle, and then I hear the three-fifths to the two-fifths, or the four-fifths to the one-fifth, you know?

• 1:10:07Danny Jones?

  Dude, the stuff the philosophers like Plato and Aristotle were thinking about back then is almost alien to today.

• 1:10:12Speaker 02

  It is.

• 1:10:13Danny Jones?

  It's so fucking fundamental.

• 1:10:15Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:10:16Danny Jones?

  And none of that, none of that happens anymore. It's so, it's so wild. Why, do you ever think about like why that, why that is, like what happened? What was so special about the Greeks?

• 1:10:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, I think that there's certain ways of thinking that are forbidden. That there's certain, that's where it's more important. I think it's really more important how you think than what you think about anything. So it's how you think about everything that you can be wrong about a lot of the elements, but it's the potency of, is your method a potent method? Because Plato was wrong about a lot of the elements, the details.

• 1:10:48Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:10:48Speaker 02

  But the method was really, really super, hyper potent. And you'll find that when you read the original writings, this goes back to when I was working with the LaRouche organization for a number of years. And we were reading, that was the greatest thing about this old man LaRouche who passed away in 2019, is he did have a good impulse to try to encourage, especially the younger members, to go on a curriculum, like be disciplined in the mind, read the writings of people who seem to have made discoveries. And then try to think about what their mind is doing as they wrote their own words out to showcase how they are hypothesizing. Or in Kepler's case, he's really, really gracious.

• 1:11:29Speaker 02

  Because he's telling you how he's even falsely hypo, like how his bad hypothesis occurred so that you don't take for granted how the good, how much work it took for years to finally generate that good, like that potent hypothesis. And that's what Plato also does in a lot of his dialogues. He's taking you through a lot of the false hypotheses, but he's doing it as a, he's not trying to be liked. He knows it's going to piss people off.

• 1:11:52Danny Jones?

  He's showing you all the work that he's done to get to that aha moment.

• 1:11:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, and like, and yeah, exactly.

• 1:11:57Danny Jones?

  That's wisdom.

• 1:11:58Speaker 02

  I think so, right? It's like a good teacher. The teachers that we liked the most, that influenced me at least, and those, or those who didn't give me all the answers, they were the ones who were trying to find a way to give me the right questions so that I could figure out, they had faith that I had something inside of me that could go and do it. And weren't trying to put it into me.

• 1:12:14Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:12:15Speaker 02

  And that's, I think, the good, healthy, good, like the honest Platonists who are authentic will tend to do that. The dishonest sort of neo-Platonic school will tend to not do that. They'll tend to put things into. But they won't. Or they'll play as though they have mysterious knowledge that when you really, really provoke them or encourage a conversation dialectically, they actually turn out that they don't have this mysterious knowledge that they want to project as an aura of like, I've got this smoky wisdom that I know, but then how did you come to that?

• 1:12:50Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:12:51Speaker 02

  Have a dialogue with me. And then when they do, there's usually an inability to demonstrate that they've earned that confidence.

• 1:12:58Danny Jones?

  Right, right. Yeah, man, that's very true. So how did your research in this lead to all of the stuff that you're doing with this new film that you made about this giant psy-op of UFOs?

• 1:13:15Speaker 02

  That was done, I guess it all kind of has its place.

• 1:13:20Danny Jones?

  Which, by the way, your angle and your take on all of this stuff with this disclosure stuff and the whole UFO phenomena is very unique.

• 1:13:32Speaker 02

  I don't know how, I mean, I don't think I-

• 1:13:34Danny Jones?

  I've never heard anyone come at it from this angle before. Or at least explain it in a way that encompasses the whole psychological or philosophical idea of it, like how it affects society.

• 1:13:50Speaker 02

  Thank you. Yeah, what I guess I tried to do, so I had originally published something in 2019, which was a smaller article for a journal I no longer write for called Strategic Culture. And it was just basically a small article that pieced together some of my work on Lawrence Rockefeller and his involvement with the disclosure project operation that he really devoted the last years of his very long life to UFO disclosure. And I was just wondering to myself, you know, you funded Esalen, a lot of the SRI operations

• 1:14:34Speaker 02

  you were funding, you were funding a lot of the Human Potential Foundation, you were funding so many Terrence McKenna's operation, you were funding that, the Green Earth Foundation-

• 1:14:40Danny Jones?

  He was funding Terrence McKenna, really?

• 1:14:41Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, yeah, the Green Earth Foundation. And this goes back, he was originally with one of the key guys, the Rockefeller Brothers Fund in the 30s, like late 30s, funding the War of the Worlds broadcast is now we know that was a social engineering.

• 1:14:55Danny Jones?

  The HG Wells thing?

• 1:14:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. So that was being bankrolled by also the Rockefeller Foundation. And it was overseen by the Princeton Radio Research Institute, right? And it had a bunch of people like Hadley Catrill and Robert Stanton, who was the head of CBC and close friends with Nelson Rockefeller. So this guy's got this strange career overseeing, like transforming alchemically the United States from like a viable republic in my mind that John F. Kennedy was trying to sort of defend and revive into becoming more and more like a seat of empire. And also funding the MKUltra adjacent operations at the same time, which is what I'm seeing, like the whole Esalen program on a lot of the psychedelic work.

• 1:15:41Speaker 02

  I see that as having a direct tie to the CIA MKUltra work on psychedelics.

• 1:15:46Danny Jones?

  Explain, I'm ignorant on the Esalen thing. What was that about?

• 1:15:50Speaker 02

  That was an organization in Big Sur, Esalen, no? So Esalen's a...

• 1:15:55Danny Jones?

  You're saying it was running parallel to MKUltra?

• 1:15:58Speaker 02

  I would say so, yeah. I'd say a lot of the work on the role of psychedelics, the application of that for, in the case of Esalen, is more applied. So taking a lot of the psychochemical work that had been developed in LSD and psilocybin and DMT in, under the vast network of the CIA's MKUltra program that had hundreds, if not thousands, of projects and subprojects in the 1950s. So that was created in 1953 or 54. And it, you know, involved a lot of guinea pigs in schools, in Harvard, the psilocybin project that generated the Unabomber.

• 1:16:34Danny Jones?

  And he was funding a lot of this stuff?

• 1:16:35Speaker 02

  Oh, he's funding a ton of this stuff.

• 1:16:36Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 1:16:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, but then it was just a weird thing to see that sort of shifting of the gears at that late stage of his life in 91, 92, towards his very big passion of UFO disclosure. As Clinton came into the White House, and one of the first things he got Clinton to do is Clinton adopted his program for the first batch of like several million classified documents tied to FBI and other, you know, files covering UFOs in general. Didn't turn out that there wasn't that much there at the end of the day, but it was a big deal. And it really did give a lot of steam to the

• 1:17:15Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I was watching one of your videos and you showed the letter that he wrote to somebody.

• 1:17:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:17:21Danny Jones?

  I'd never seen that before. That was wild.

• 1:17:23Speaker 02

  Well, that was where he's calling for the, I think that was the one where he's talking about the importance of the Roswell story is

• 1:17:29Danny Jones?

  The Roswell story, right.

• 1:17:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, we have to really hammer it, making this part of the mass zeitgeist, like that part of the mythos has to become really, really clear and present in the minds of everybody because we're going to build an entire structure that will be an organizing principle around this core story. So we have to really get nail that, nail that. But it wasn't just that, right? He brought together people like Robert Bigelow to his ranch, and I think it was Wyoming.

• 1:17:55Danny Jones?

  Stephen Greer.

• 1:17:56Speaker 02

  Stephen Greer was brought into this important conference, several, a big seminar that organized, Linda Moulton Howe was brought into it. There's a number of other big names. In 93, that sort of like helped sort of congeal the new phase of how the disclosure operation was going to unfold over the post-Soviet age, because now the Soviets have melted down, right? 91, 92, Gorbachev has now pulled the plug on the Soviet experiment. So now America no longer has that organizing principle to build itself up around, which was the entirety of the Cold War. You don't have the Russia boogeyman anymore.

• 1:18:32Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:33Speaker 02

  Which again was part of the Esalen operation too, that Rockefeller was funding, was the American Soviet Friendship Operation that Esalen, Michael Murphy was a big part of organizing the US Soviet Friendship Association, where they were bringing in

• 1:18:51Speaker 02

  KGB operatives, other members of the technic- like the technocratic class of Russian, Russian mystics were being brought into Esalen to go to their retreats and then to be sent back to Russia and vice versa. So you had this, this thing going that organized, Gorbachev was a big patron of, of the Esalen operation inside of Russia. Yeltsin was actually brought in to California in the eighties. Again, all on the bankroll, the dime of Lawrence. That's fascinating stuff. So I'm just wondering like, why?

• 1:19:18Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:19Speaker 02

  And I'm just.

• 1:19:19Danny Jones?

  Why was he so interested?

• 1:19:20Speaker 02

  Yeah. So I'm just, in my article in 2019, I was just piecing together a lot of the connectoids, you know, and I brought in Tom DeLonge's operation and how a lot of those same people who are working with.

• 1:19:29Danny Jones?

  Tom DeLonge?

• 1:19:30Speaker 02

  DeLonge.

• 1:19:31Danny Jones?

  The Blink 182 dude?

• 1:19:32Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 1:19:33Danny Jones?

  What was his thing called? Two Stars? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:19:35Speaker 02

  Academy of Arts and Science. Yeah. And how certain people who were very important shapers behind the scenes were tied to Jacques Vallée, to Hal Putoff, you know, and others.

• 1:19:46Danny Jones?

  What is your take on Jacques Vallée?

• 1:19:51Danny Jones?

  It's okay. You can disparage him. He won't see it.

• 1:19:54Speaker 02

  I think there might be certain things that he might be overlooking about what he's been engaged or interfacing with, perhaps. I'll, I'll like, I'd like to presume that he really does honestly mean well.

• 1:20:03Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm. I started reading his book that he recommended Diana, to Diana Pesolka, The Satan Book. You familiar with that story?

• 1:20:10Speaker 02

  Kurt got me a PDF of that.

• 1:20:11Danny Jones?

  I sent it to Kurt. He must have forwarded it to you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm reading it and I'm not seeing the connection.

• 1:20:17Speaker 02

  I don't know yet.

• 1:20:17Danny Jones?

  I'm only 150 pages in, but.

• 1:20:19Speaker 02

  Is the one that was written by like these Carmelite?

• 1:20:21Danny Jones?

  It was written by Carmelite. Yeah. Carmelite. Yeah. Some French people. But the, the closest thing I can make is that there's like this, um, this phantasm connection where like there, it's, it's very, it's a very, the book's coming from a very theological framework. And it's trying to explain like.

• 1:20:43Danny Jones?

  How the the different forms of Satan and where it comes from and like what it means? And the difference between like actual satanic or demonic possession versus like a psychological disorder? And how you discern the difference and the only way you can do it is by going to a priest? And like how Satan allegedly controls, according to the Bible, the the when they say the heavens, they mean like the upper atmosphere and can distort illusions and can alter human perception and the human senses, but it can't, he can't fuck with your soul. And it also explains like, it really gets pretty deep into like, like according to like the gospels, who or according to like, I don't know, according to who, but it explains what Satan Satan really was.

• 1:21:27Danny Jones?

  And it was interesting because it was like, like, and something I never really understood was the way the book describes it is like, he is like one level below God. And he's like on the hierarchy of angels, he's on the very tippy top right below God. And what makes him, what makes him Satan, what makes him a fallen angel is that he has like ultimate intelligence, ultimate power, like he has, he's perfect in every way, right? In every sense of the word perfect, like it all knowing all you can like, he has all the knowledge throughout history, throughout time of everything and like has

• 1:22:07Danny Jones?

  the ability to do good like infinitely, but he chooses like usually when people do evil, they do evil through ignorance or through, you know, misunderstanding or malevolence or through their upbringing or whatever happened. There's multiple things that can happen to a human being that can lead them to do evil. The thing about Satan is, and you probably already know this, I'm probably preaching to the choir, is that he understands all this, he already knows everything, he has all the knowledge of the universe. And he through that chooses to do evil, which was, I thought that was pretty interesting, but I'll see how it connects to aliens.

• 1:22:41Speaker 02

  Can I ask you, in that book that you're reading or in your other studies on the topic?

• 1:22:46Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:47Speaker 02

  Why does with all of the possible alternatives that Satan could choose? Why does the this entity deem that doing evil for its own sake is the best of all possible choices that that is made? So do they talk about that or did you?

• 1:23:04Danny Jones?

  I maybe it explains it or maybe I don't remember or maybe I haven't gotten there yet. Um, but

• 1:23:10Speaker 02

  Is there some greater good that you think that they that they might presume that Satan sees in

• 1:23:14Danny Jones?

  No.

• 1:23:14Speaker 02

  Doing evil or some outcome that is beneficial?

• 1:23:17Danny Jones?

  No, no, he just, he, no, I don't think so. I think it's, um, a lot of it comes to do with pride, chooses to be prideful, uh, is jealous of humanity and it it comes to, it come, it basically, it boils into how this, uh, this dualistic view of good and evil, right? And like, like the default mode reality of humanity is not necessarily good. It's evil, but by accepting Jesus, you can become good. So like

• 1:23:58Speaker 02

  That's what they're saying.

• 1:23:59Danny Jones?

  That's what this book is saying, right? If you don't accept Jesus, you are essentially, I couldn't be misinterpreting it, but, but that is basically like you're in the grips of Satan unless you

• 1:24:11Speaker 02

  By default.

• 1:24:11Danny Jones?

  By default, yes.

• 1:24:12Speaker 02

  Do they explain that? Cause I mean, if, if Satan is still kind of under, is inferior in some way in their, in their setup to their idea of God, then isn't God the creator of what, or the ultimate creator of humans?

• 1:24:24Danny Jones?

  Yes. And the reason God lets Satan, all this is all according to this book and my, um, my like loose understanding of it so far is that, um, God lets Satan do evil on people, like kill people, do genocide, give people cancer, whatever, whatever have you, because God believes that that is going to do an ultimate good for humanity by letting people go through the fire. It makes them stronger. It makes them more resilient, makes them, uh, more, have more wisdom, like that, that kind of stuff. That's that, that's the angle it takes.

• 1:24:56Speaker 02

  Right. I guess that would be a little, a little bit weak of an idea in some sense, because what about all of the people who just suffer, get tortured and die without the, the ability to thus become better people out of the pain, you know?

• 1:25:09Danny Jones?

  Like the, yeah, I think, I, my guess would be that their, their argument would be that, um, you know, Maybe their souls would would be freed and they would live in heaven or their ancestors or somebody close to them would see that and would decide to turn their life around for better and devote themselves to God or or something along those lines, but I'm not sure. You'd have to ask the Carmelites.

• 1:25:33Speaker 02

  I would. Yeah, I will get around to reading that. It does seem to be a pretty seminal work, but.

• 1:25:38Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I'm almost halfway through. I'm not seeing. I'm not seeing what the connection is there. Maybe I'm just not smart enough to translate it.

• 1:25:44Speaker 02

  The translations things like you said are always an issue, eh? But I mean, the the Gnostic, the Gnostic Creator God story for me is is always kind of like I try to approach things as a Platonist as a from a philosophical standpoint of what what hypothesis creates the fewest internal contradictions to that hypothesis when it when it tries to map itself onto.

• 1:26:10Danny Jones?

  Exactly.

• 1:26:10Speaker 02

  Reality.

• 1:26:11Danny Jones?

  Reality, yeah.

• 1:26:11Speaker 02

  And and it also simultaneously increases my agency and my my ability to to problem solve creatively, to be more creative. And so that's that's my two sort of standards when I'm trying to figure out like what plausible hypothesis of good and evil or of whatever.

• 1:26:27Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:27Speaker 02

  I'm trying to explain. And I find in the Gnostic world that presumes kind of two opposing deities where one is of light and one is really this dark ignorant deity, this Yaljibao or whatever, that that made the cosmos in their ignorant image that that rules the world in this evil kind of thing that we're kind of like locked into a prison planet and prison prison flesh that we have to like tap into this sort of light source through gnosis. But that the Creator Creator, the maximum Creator actually has no either has no ability to to to do anything, to actively live as a as a creative force within creation.

• 1:27:09Speaker 02

  Because it's not the Creator that didn't do it. The Creator is created by default this Yaljibao through this tertiary Luciferian kind of deity thing. Or there's there's no so it seems kind of like the the good God so called that isn't animated by desire to do evil is impotent. But and then the question is like, why is it impotent? Is it because till you know, it just can't do it? In which case, the other God seems to actually be way more powerful that we should maybe respect more? Or maybe it's that. Everything evil is, has just must happen that because there's going to be a hope for good lesson to our souls after the child's been raped a number of times in an Epstein

• 1:27:51Speaker 02

  Island dungeon or something and then they die and, and maybe we have to then have faith rather than stopping, rather than doing the proactive thing, which is to stopping the rape, stopping the murder. So don't do that because we should hold back and let this happen because maybe the kid's next life is going to be benefited by it. Don't try to help the genocide in Africa being carried out by these multinational corporations by design. Because maybe they all deserve it by transgressions that all these dark

• 1:28:19Danny Jones?

  It will lead to, because God thinks it will lead to a greater good. So he'll permit Satan to do that, according to this book.

• 1:28:24Speaker 02

  It all becomes very necessary in my mind. And that's for me.

• 1:28:27Danny Jones?

  It feels like coping.

• 1:28:28Speaker 02

  Kind of coping. That seems more like coping, if anything. Yeah. A sense of self-disempowerment, maybe. And you just have to come up with some meta, like sacred story that will give you a reason to go to bed at night with a clear conscience, knowing what you know about the unnecessary evils being done to so many innocents. Yeah, coping. I'd say that applies.

• 1:28:46Danny Jones?

  What were we talking about before I derailed you on Jock Vale? You were talking about the Rockefeller's and.

• 1:28:51Speaker 02

  Well, you were talking about like what got me into the thing from what I was talking about to what. So I guess the thing was, it was, I, I have wanted to make this story, I want to pull on the thread more. And, and I was, I was using a lot of disparate patterns that I was just pulling together kind of haphazardly into an article in 2019. But I, I've wanted to dig in more deeply and make it, in 2022, my wife and I started, she's, she's a wonderful author as well, Cynthia Chung. And we started working with a filmmaker in, in taking some of our articles and our research, making them into, into movies. And this filmmaker is really good. And we made like probably 20. And along the way,

• 1:29:36Speaker 02

  I've always had the desire to try to like, create the alien story, or put the research I had, I had done into a more dignified, rigorous skin, like skin suit. Like try to find a way to give it more expression. And I had spent about two years trying to come up with a script. And it was all very rigid. It was all very much rooted, it was very much rooted in the, the CIA side of like the psy-op, the, you know, what was it about? I think I was bringing up Jalen Heineck, you know, one of the key patrons or teachers of valet and and his work with grudge and the Robson panel and project sign and and

• 1:30:17Speaker 02

  the National Enquirer, you know, operation on the project, the blue, blue.

• 1:30:22Danny Jones?

  CIA was funding the National Enquirer.

• 1:30:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, the CIA funded National Enquirer. Well, it shaped the National Enquirer. It was Frank Costello who gave the seed capital to the National Enquirer, but General Rosa Pope Jr., who founded it, was working under the Office of Policy Coordination of the CIA, which is the Psychological Warfare Department in 1951. And he did that for 14 months before then immediately going out and creating the National Enquirer. And then that created the blue ribbon, the blue ribbon panel on UFO research, sort of creating monetary incentives that lasted for a few years, co-sponsored by the NICEP and.

• 1:30:57Danny Jones?

  Why would they fund the National Enquirer?

• 1:30:59Speaker 02

  I think to blur people's idea of reality and fiction because there was a lot of like useful, there were useful articles and investigations often published in the pages of the National Enquirer infused in with total creative writing and fiction.

• 1:31:16Danny Jones?

  Bigfoot and shit.

• 1:31:17Speaker 02

  Yeah. And yeah, Lemurians from like Shasta and stuff. So, yeah, and they were just, I think that was part of the thing over time. If you're working on a multi-generational magic trick, you got to think long term, right? What seems kind of fringe novelty in the moment actually might be part of something which is shaping increasingly the collective zeitgeist, the collective.

• 1:31:39Danny Jones?

  The subconscious mind, maybe?

• 1:31:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, the subconscious mind.

• 1:31:42Danny Jones?

  So, yeah, give it, give your 30,000 foot view of this whole thing. You think it's a multi-generational magic trick?

• 1:31:47Speaker 02

  That's where I've, that's the hypothesis I've been operating on is that it's a multi-generational magic trick.

• 1:31:52Danny Jones?

  Being conducted by who?

• 1:31:53Speaker 02

  Being conducted by.

• 1:31:55Danny Jones?

  Rockefeller types?

• 1:31:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, I guess so. I mean, I think that there's a Rosicrucian elements, a hermetic Rosicrucian elements, underpinning this ritual as far as a more neo-gnostic movement that is working, that has been working behind the scenes to create the foundations for a reset of global culture, global religions at the end of a millennium, maybe 2033.

• 1:32:24Danny Jones?

  A reset of global religions.

• 1:32:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, a reset of like, yeah, global mass psychological reset sparked maybe with a some trauma, some shock therapy to the mass zeitgeist.

• 1:32:38Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 1:32:39Speaker 02

  Um, maybe through an induced cataclysm or something like that. And then coming out of the fire, this phoenixing kind of cleansing of the the species would be hopefully in their, I think, the minds of a lot of these shaman wannabes. Um, the foundations for a new set of revamped um religious beliefs that might center a little bit more on extraterrestrial gods that might have a variety of flavors to them, depending on whether you want it to masquerade as a, for one of the Christian cults or one of the Muslim or one of the whatever Hindu, whatever. I think, but they want people to think of Muhammad or Jesus or Moses or any number of their, you know, Buddhist doctrines as as being something that comes from alien

• 1:33:23Speaker 02

  gods, alien creators from either another dimension or maybe this one, but usually I think another dimension or whatever would be the.

• 1:33:30Danny Jones?

  So they want to, they want to make it so that make it seem like all religions sprouted out of this stuff.

• 1:33:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, that the real gods are the aliens and the, yeah, the real demons.

• 1:33:38Danny Jones?

  Like an alien perennialism type thing.

• 1:33:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, I guess so. Yeah, that the angels and the demons, like, like Aleister Crowley had once said, that, that in the future, people will be speaking of aliens and demons, but they won't call them that anymore. And I think that what he understood to be what he expects people to call them will be. Yeah, I mean.

• 1:33:58Danny Jones?

  Just aliens.

• 1:33:59Speaker 02

  Aliens.

• 1:34:00Danny Jones?

  Interesting.

• 1:34:01Speaker 02

  I think. And it's, it's a nice way to account for uh why bad things happen, why is there political injustice, why is there evil in this world, it's the shape shifting, you know, lizards from whatever, uh, that are, that just want us to be sad and suck our fear energy to keep them going and why is there global warming in their minds? That's one thing David Icke had said back in the 90s, he was making the thesis that the, that global warming is part of the plot by the lizards to make, create a more habitable, lizard friendly world that they could then occupy over time. So I think it kind of works a little bit to get people to think about these objectively true conspiracies that are multi-generational, that people like the Rockefeller brothers

• 1:34:44Speaker 02

  and others have been a part of or initiated into. And then to move the sense of causal nexus into someplace that will make us not really capable of doing what Martin Luther King Jr. Was doing, or John F. Kennedy, or Fred Hampton, or any number of these noble souls who emerged at different times with a commitment to righting the wrong, you know, and organizing, I think. Again, it's my hypothesis, I'm not saying I know that to be true, it's just my hypothesis.

• 1:35:19Danny Jones?

  Right, right. So Rockefeller, he was doing this thing, he was doing the funding, all the psychedelic stuff in conjunction with MKUltra. He was doing all this other crazy stuff. He was lobbying to get the Roswell stuff out there. And then in the 90s, he was getting together people like Stephen Greer, and Lyndon Moulton Howe, and all these UFOs. And Robert Bigelow. And so you think that Rockefeller, explain to me what you think Rockefeller, like, what was his ultimate goal, do you think, with this?

• 1:35:56Speaker 02

  I mean, I don't think it's a purely Rockefeller-designed operation. I just think that he was a conduit.

• 1:36:04Danny Jones?

  What were his motives?

• 1:36:05Speaker 02

  Well, I think his particular motives is in harmony with what his clan, what his family has been devoted to since, you know, John D. Rockefeller, the original sort of, you know, rail and oil magnate rose to power as part of the US establishment, which is a devotion to a certain class and a certain system that is ancient in character, that has provided them the privilege to rise in standing with a certain dynastic guarantee, a certain limited dynasty provided to them to have a family of privilege, as long as certain patterns of behavior and certain responsibilities are maintained by various members of the clan.

• 1:36:50Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:36:51Speaker 02

  So I don't think it's anything different so much as that his particular, I mean, he had a lot of brothers, right? The Nelson and John and David and I think there was one Michael or something who died a weird death was like cannibalized or something by on some anthropological trip when he was in his twenties or thirties.

• 1:37:11Danny Jones?

  Cannibalized?

• 1:37:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, he was like, I think, was it Michael Rockefeller was cannibalized? You know, it was the younger brother that people forget about. Yeah, he went on some weird anthropological trip.

• 1:37:19Danny Jones?

  Oh, you know what? I remember this. I did. I did see something about this.

• 1:37:23Speaker 02

  New Guinea tribe or something and was trying to get some human skulls that were part of this cannibal tribe and was trying to buy them or something. It's kind of, it's kind of fragmentary of my memories, right?

• 1:37:34Danny Jones?

  Michael Rockefeller.

• 1:37:35Speaker 02

  Oh, twenty three year old. Yeah, right. He was a young guy.

• 1:37:37Danny Jones?

  He disappeared in nineteen sixty one when his catamaran capsized off the coast of Asmat, a region in southwest Dutch New Guinea, now Papua, Papua in Indonesia. His cause of death, uh, well, the official cause of death was recorded as drowning. Investigations, including the journalist Carl Hoffman's extensive book Savage Harvest, revealed that the Rockefeller made it to the shore and was killed and ritually consumed by the Asmat headhunters.

• 1:38:02Speaker 02

  Yeah. So he didn't get to live up to the expectations probably that were, that were on his shoulders. Um, or maybe he did. Maybe he had a role to play.

• 1:38:13Danny Jones?

  He strangled himself.

• 1:38:14Speaker 02

  I don't know. Yeah. It's a weird one.

• 1:38:16Danny Jones?

  That's freaking really weird, man.

• 1:38:18Speaker 02

  Yeah. Uh, so all that to say, Lawrence, you know, he was known as the philosopher of the group, you know, so he had a little bit more of the responsibility to do the cultural, like, well, these guys, well, his other brothers Nelson was a vice president, was playing, you know, David was playing a big role in the Trilateral Commission.

• 1:38:35Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:36Speaker 02

  They had a bit more of a responsibility on the political economic side of the control grid. Um, his seemed to be a little bit more towards the psychocultural element of things.

• 1:38:46Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:38:48Speaker 02

  So he's known as more, yeah, the spiritual philosopher. He used to be known as Mr. Ecology because he was the first in the sixties to really work national ecological policymaking into US doctrine for administrating, you know, North America.

• 1:39:04Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:39:05Speaker 02

  Um, he's the one who got John F. Kennedy to sign off on this program to allocate major chunks of, uh, The US, and not, not to say this is a bad thing, but as national parks, that would be off limits of human development, which again, could be a very, there's a place for that. I'm not trying to say that there isn't, but there's also another element to that. If you're a Malthusian who wants to reduce the, the, the, the, the box in which people are living in, to reduce the pathways for solutions that they might want to think about if faced with scarcity, you might want to think, well, if I've got scarcity, lack of food production, lack of electricity going around in the future, maybe I can act now to increase the hydroelectric power availability so that the next generation doesn't have that scarcity.

• 1:39:50Speaker 02

  Maybe that would involve maybe changing certain ecological cycles within an area that might have now a dam that didn't before, but maybe the outcome for the benefit of my grandkids will be better for that, or let's say nuclear power, maybe I should want to build that now, it'll take a long time, it'll be expensive, but.

• 1:40:07Danny Jones?

  So what was that program called? What was that thing that he wanted to do called? Was there a name for it? It was, he wanted to preserve nature, right? With more national parks?

• 1:40:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, increase of national parks and protected lands that kinda, again, if it, if it wasn't.

• 1:40:20Danny Jones?

  That was John D., right?

• 1:40:21Speaker 02

  No, that was, that was Lawrence.

• 1:40:22Danny Jones?

  Lawrence.

• 1:40:23Speaker 02

  There's pictures of Lawrence Rockefeller and John F. Kennedy together in 1962 when he was signing off on that. So again, he was known as Mr. Conservation for a long period. That was sort of his, his wheel horse. He was friends with Maury Strong as well.

• 1:40:35Danny Jones?

  So all these billionaires having these like philanthropic, like big do-gooder fucking labels that they like to stick on themselves.

• 1:40:46Speaker 02

  It's funny, right? Cause they, a lot of them, when you actually look at their, their lifestyle personally.

• 1:40:51Danny Jones?

  They all want to save the world.

• 1:40:52Speaker 02

  Well, and they also act very differently, like, like Prince Philip is a, Mount, Mount Batten is a founder of the World Wildlife Fund for Nature, and yet this guy's renowned for hunting like white rhinos in Africa and, you know, he's not walking the walk. Prince Bernhard of the Netherlands, same thing, co-founder of the, well, the guy who sets up the Bilderberg Group, co-found with Prince Philip in 62, the World Wildlife Fund for Nature.

• 1:41:17Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 1:41:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, and they're all like on safari regularly.

• 1:41:19Danny Jones?

  It's just fucking money laundering or arms trafficking, probably.

• 1:41:22Speaker 02

  Partially, yeah, I think there's a multitude of reasons for these things to happen. But I think one of the bigger ones for me is the Malthusian idea of trying to take away from human society, big parcels of potential that would allow us to overcome problems and limits to growth, because they want to really impose a science of adapt to scarcity. But then they want to control the conditions around which the scarcity can be managed, and around which the energy, the return on energy investment can be reduced over time, and in a way that we don't recognize how the cage is getting smaller.

• 1:41:56Danny Jones?

  Hmm, man, that's dark.

• 1:41:58Speaker 02

  It's very dark. But I guess it could be seen as good, like a necessary evil for the greater good, if you think that human beings, if you're a misanthrope, who doesn't see anything good within yourself, in the culture that you were born into, and you're just projecting your own kind of misanthropy, onto all of the species as a species, that's a big empirical leap, right? Like, I'm personally got all sorts of self-hate, I've been maybe broken and abused and eaten college, or whatever my boarding school conditioning was that I was born into, because you feel a lot of sympathy for a lot of these, I feel, I do, I feel a lot of sympathy for the, these members, these children of the so-called elite.

• 1:42:40Speaker 02

  And then that internal dissonance becomes something Freudian, like a Freudian projection onto the whole species as humanity, and then you think, well, then we're naturally this bestial parasite.

• 1:42:50Danny Jones?

  Yeah, you're projecting all your bullshit onto us.

• 1:42:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, and then all of a sudden, anytime we try to, human beings try to solve a problem, we only can destroy. Every problem that we try to solve actually creates more problems. And this is where this neo-Malthusian revival in the 60s came about, called Problematik, which Lawrence Rockefeller was also a big follower of. Problematik is basically the science of problems. And Prince Berenhard was a devotee of this as well, who set up the Bilderberg Group. And the whole ecological movement was set up by these people who are adherents to Problematik, world Problematik. Alexander King, who founded the Club of Rome, was a major leader of that school. And basically, yeah, it was basically, it was to say, okay, let's reframe the idea of scientific progress around the idea that every type of solution scientifically to

• 1:43:34Speaker 02

  problems results in more problems and let's like create a science of problems. It becomes the science of why we can't do things. Right. It basically says that.

• 1:43:43Danny Jones?

  Wild.

• 1:43:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:43:45Danny Jones?

  They want to create a one world alien religion and they want to destroy Christianity and they want to destroy all the Abrahamic faiths. So they want to try, they want to, basically, they want to create like a Scientology, a worldwide Scientology.

• 1:44:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, I think that if you have a massive, let's say, disclosure or revelation of various governments.

• 1:44:07Danny Jones?

  See, I'm different. I don't think, I don't think traditional faith, Abrahamic religions and faiths will be hurt at all by that. I think it will probably strengthen them.

• 1:44:17Speaker 02

  I think it'll change their character. I think that it will amplify the demonology, angelology side of the faiths. The supernatural stuff will be amplified, but I think a lot of the, I don't think that that's what gives value in my mind to what made the Abrahamic faiths useful or good ultimately is, it's not those things. I think what makes it good or what makes them the most valuable to humanity will be reduced in influence, which is, I think, the actual lessons of.

• 1:44:54Danny Jones?

  What do you think makes them most valuable to humanity?

• 1:44:56Speaker 02

  I think the actual core lessons of Jesus as taught, not as far as like, hey, look, I can walk on water and I can raise Lazarus. I think it's like the actual ability to learn about what it means to be a dignified, loving human being that understands how much responsibility comes with being made in the living image of an idea of the Creator, that's a good Creator, a good and reasonable Creator that endowed us with these attributes to discover more and more creation and to act accordingly to moral values. For me, those are super duper important and have been really a thorn in the side of this more evil cult that's been latched on is that when human beings tap into those lessons that express themselves

• 1:45:41Speaker 02

  in different ways, but they're the same kind of lessons in the old faiths, we become less inclined to adapt to situations of injustice and of evil. And so for me.

• 1:45:56Speaker 02

  That is what I see dissipating more and more.

• 1:46:00Speaker 02

  And.

• 1:46:01Danny Jones?

  You see, really? You see that dissipating? I feel like it's like resurging.

• 1:46:05Speaker 02

  I'm not seeing too much of it. I see a lot of hope to survive, resurging, but I don't see a lot of, like, when I look at the quality of philosophical mind, when I read the speeches of Martin Luther King, or Bobby Kennedy, or John F. Kennedy, like, there was a.

• 1:46:19Danny Jones?

  Oh, I was talking about like Christianity.

• 1:46:21Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, but these are, they're, they're animating their identities around very Christian principles.

• 1:46:24Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:25Speaker 02

  Um, but, but highly cultured and, and very deep.

• 1:46:28Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:29Speaker 02

  Philosophical thoughts associated with their, their, but they couldn't do what they did were it not for the, the Christian principles that animated their own identities and their own method of organizing systems and so I don't see a lot of that quality of mind in the political class at this point, or the the influencing class in general, there's, there's a diminution.

• 1:46:49Danny Jones?

  No, but they're trying to hijack, they're trying to hijack the religions to justify everything they do, though.

• 1:46:54Speaker 02

  Oh, that's been part of the thing.

• 1:46:55Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:56Speaker 02

  That's been part of the game.

• 1:46:58Danny Jones?

  So, yeah. And that doesn't seem like a, a thing Jesus would do, would go like, drop bombs on everybody. Genocide people. So like, as much as it can be done for good, that's the problem. That's my, that's the, one of the biggest problems with these religions is you hear all the bad stuff, but you never hear the good stuff. Like, the good stuff happens in the little communities, right? People get together, it makes their life better, whatever, they're happier. Uh, makes them a better person, but then like you get these fucking psychopaths that will hijack the religion and put the label of the religion on whatever the fuck they're doing to justify what they're doing. And that's the shit that makes the headlines.

• 1:47:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:47:33Danny Jones?

  Never hear about the good stuff.

• 1:47:34Speaker 02

  We're talking about these controlled dialectics that are like, you know, I, I use the example of, of Thomas Huxley and, and the Darwin School versus the creationist school. Both sides are, are, uh, wrong for different reasons, but it creates this false sense of, of options of choice of what the fight is. And I think that there's examples when you look at even like. Throughout history, a lot of the the most destructive acts that have been using the Christian skin suit to carry out acts of crusading wars, you know, murder murder for Jesus kind of things, or burn burn the witches for Jesus, you know, that all of those things

• 1:48:16Speaker 02

  usually have the hand of social engineers within the upper echelons of power at the same time as you have influencers on the on the bottom up. So you have both the top down and bottom up tendency to influence systems in a in a certain way. So that like, for example, many of the the forces that ran inquisitional processes around Dominican and and Franciscan grand strategists, who's usually Dominican and Franciscan, themselves seem to have an occult underpinning within the Dominican and Franciscan orders of an esoteric inner doctrine and an exoteric outer doctrine that will then take power

• 1:49:00Speaker 02

  and use those positions of power to justify the killing of a lot of people. Now, some of the people being killed are actually doing witchcraft. Some of them are are just innocent people.

• 1:49:10Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:49:10Speaker 02

  Some of them are just women who are herbalists, and they're they're just, you know, doing what they think of as white magic, and it's not really all that dangerous. Some of them are probably actually doing the bad stuff, right? But there's there's a lot of innocent people dying along the way.

• 1:49:23Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:49:24Speaker 02

  And it just seems like that's not an organically emergent property of Christianity per se. It does seem like there are these mystery cults. There is witchcraft in the Bible.

• 1:49:34Danny Jones?

  And there's genocide.

• 1:49:35Speaker 02

  There is genocide, especially in the Old Testament.

• 1:49:37Danny Jones?

  There's lots of threats of killing people and babies and.

• 1:49:40Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. These these books are full of problems.

• 1:49:43Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:49:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, no doubt. I'm not trying to say that they're not. But I'm saying that if there's if you're if you're trying to be a good person, making sense of things, you will resonate to certain parts of the lessons of the Book of Isaiah or the.

• 1:49:53Danny Jones?

  Yeah, you got a cherry pick.

• 1:49:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, yeah, I mean, as a human being, if you if you're.

• 1:49:57Danny Jones?

  Bless you.

• 1:50:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, and you will latch on to the more superficial or just outright destructive stuff if you got that within you. So, and yeah, you'll be a Benedictine or Stercian grandstrategist controlling the Templars to go and like, kill the heathens for centuries and set up the, you know?

• 1:50:18Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:50:19Speaker 02

  The new Solomonic Temple of Jerusalem and then, you know, is the new hub of a world mystery cult.

• 1:50:24Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:50:25Speaker 02

  That might be what you might want to do.

• 1:50:26Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:50:27Speaker 02

  And justify certain aspects of the Bible to then organize, dumb down, uneducated plebes who don't know how to use their minds and pass moral wise judgment.

• 1:50:36Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:50:37Speaker 02

  And who will just follow whatever their guru, their local priest is telling them that they should do.

• 1:50:42Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:50:45Speaker 02

  So yeah, I mean, that's, that's part of the thing. It's, I think, just the battle of how do you find the good? Like, everything is a mixture of good and evil. And there's this battle with intentions by representatives of different schools that have different views of what is human beings? Are we something good? Are we something naturally evil? What are the consequences of how we plan out policy according to which hypothesis be true? And that's why, for me, like, what really resonated with me when I, when I joined the LaRouche organization wasn't so much the political organizing, although that was useful to talk to, to try to get proactive about, you know, organizing for breaking up Wall Street banks and things like that was useful. But what was more useful for me in the long

• 1:51:28Speaker 02

  run was reading Kepler, was, was just spending a few years just studying through Kepler's works, doing astronomy, reading through Plato, just getting a sense of how do their minds work? And then getting a sense in doing that, that they're all drawing from the same well, using a very similar method of, of looking for assumptions, self-examining their hearts, their core axioms, while at the same time trying to harmonize their soul with the objective universe outside of them. And they're trying to intervene on their world. They're not, like, they're not in the clouds. They're, they're, like, they see themselves as part of the thing that they're, that they're trying to intervene on. And they're doing a very similar type of, of, of, I mean, it's all unique to their personalities, but they're

• 1:52:10Speaker 02

  all doing the same kind of thing to get people to wake up to this higher way of thinking about the creation, the Creator, and your purpose. That helps, that would help people to avoid calamities.

• 1:52:21Danny Jones?

  Yeah, it's also interesting, speaking of Plato, how he wanted to create this noble lie, you know, that he wanted to create this sort of religion, right? Or this framework for society, for people to live by. And even though it was fake and made up, he thought that it would make society better and meld better, and it would make more of a prosperous.

• 1:52:43Speaker 02

  Well, I got a different take on that, because I've read through The Republic a number of times, and I do enjoy The Republic a lot.

• 1:52:50Danny Jones?

  I've never read it. I've only had people tell me about it.

• 1:52:51Speaker 02

  Oh, really? Okay. It's a good read, but it's not a read that should be taken out of context. Like, everything is not a closed system. So Plato's corpus as a whole is not that big. It'd all fit in like one book. And his dialogues, some of them get very small, but they're all... The reason why people tend to get very frustrated with Plato is that they all recognize that he uses a non-literal mode of communication, and he uses ambiguity a lot.

• 1:53:16Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:53:17Speaker 02

  So he never tells you what the answer is. He gives you more problems by the end of each dialogue than you had going into it. You have more questions than you started out with. And yet, it's interesting that in this one particular case of The Republic, he is treated as if he's a literalist by people who don't like him because he's not a literalist. So, but what he's doing in writing these things, they're specifically done originally for his academy.

• 1:53:40Danny Jones?

  He's treated as a literalist by people who don't like him because he's a literalist.

• 1:53:45Speaker 02

  They don't like him because he's not a literalist. They like people who give him crystallized, like, finished answers. That's what people often say. Aristotle is wiser than Plato because Aristotle gives you the answers. He doesn't give you more questions. You want to know what justice is? Go read his definition. He tells you what it is. And there's one justice for the master, one justice for the slave, and one justice for the daughter, and one justice for the son. And he'll give you the closed, the finished answers. You don't have to overthink it.

• 1:54:11Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:54:12Speaker 02

  They like it because it's lazy reason. They're contaminated with it.

• 1:54:15Danny Jones?

  Exactly.

• 1:54:16Speaker 02

  Whereas Plato will give you all sorts of hypotheses that emerge to try to account for what justice is, but he's actually never giving you the closed answer. Except in this one particular anomalous location of the book, The Republic, where he is giving these closed answers.

• 1:54:34Speaker 02

  And so in this one case, the people who don't like him because he's not a literalist, say, "Oh, he's disgusting. He's the foundation for fascist controls and the noble lie," because they're taking a literal reading of what he's saying in the Republic. And I would say in coming to study Plato's mind and what he's doing in that Republic is, number one, he's writing it for students of his academy. So he's trying to create philosopher kings within his academy. That's part of his...

• 1:55:02Danny Jones?

  Yeah, right.

• 1:55:03Speaker 02

  And you know...

• 1:55:04Danny Jones?

  That's what he thought. He thought the philosophers should run the society.

• 1:55:07Speaker 02

  Well, he made a point that it's only that society is...

• 1:55:10Danny Jones?

  Are you saying this was all just some sort of a thought experiment allegory-type thing, war game?

• 1:55:14Speaker 02

  I think he's taking, first of all, into the sausage factory, because the thing that he's outlining, as far as the noble lie, the architecture of the society run by gold and silver, or defined around gold and silver and bronze souls, or I think it's iron souls, condemned by birth to a predestined fate according to the quality of their souls.

• 1:55:32Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:55:33Speaker 02

  All of these things preexisted Plato by a long shot. I think these are all organizing formulas for the Babylonian Empire, for every major oligarchical society. You had noble lies, you had a priesthood class, you had the idea of organizing society by these castes that were very closed, and that you would kill a baby if you found that a baby was subpar born into a higher family, that baby should be sacrificed, as Plato talks about in the Republic. So I think that he's, number one, writing it as an exercise, as he does for all of his dialogues. He's taking you into the sausage factory, so he's showing you how the thing actually works, which is the first time in human history that the systems of oligarchical

• 1:56:18Speaker 02

  organization were ever made transparent. They were never made transparent until this one text. So there's all of that going on. Number two, I think he gives you a key with the Book One of the Republic, which is the book on, the whole thing is about justice and he builds up his whole idealized state in order to try to come up with a better hypothesis to answer what is justice, which is in Book One, against this character Thrasymachus. And Thrasymachus is very much like Gorgias or the character of Callicles, who are come up in their own dialogue earlier. They're all real people in the real world, by the way, that Plato was living in. They're not fake people that he makes up. And usually, when you look at who they are, they're people causing a lot of destruction to greet to Athens and the world. So it's interesting.

• 1:57:03Speaker 02

  But in this dialogue in Book One, he pretty much completely annihilates Thrasymachus's Hobbesian definition of justice as being the ability for the strong to dominate the weak, to increase your sensual gratification and punish your enemies and reward your friends, which is the oligarchical idea of the might makes right hardcore Huxley, Thomas Huxley idea of justice, which again, he annihilates and people should just read this very, very nice dialogue, which I think creates the master key of the spirit for how to think about and work through the rest of the nine books of that. Right. Of that thing, in which later on, you'll find the story of the allegory of the cave emerge. Right.

• 1:57:47Speaker 02

  And the other thing too, is that, I'll just say it, because I know people don't often have a lot of time to sit down and read something like the Republic, but I will say, one of the other things he does that's very uncharacteristic of Plato is that he's defining what is a human being with Glaucon. So Glaucon is his interlocutor, who's Plato's actual cousin, or yeah, cousin. That's the student of Socrates in the Republic and talking with Socrates. And they try to define, well, what is a human? What is the guardian? So the, because our society is going to require statesmen, it requires leaders, it requires guardians to protect it, to decide, how do you deal with war? How do you deal with your neighbors? How do you deal with peace? How do you deal with education policy? How do you do with, right? So how do you train the guardians?

• 1:58:32Speaker 02

  Well, first, we have to define what is a human. Right, and in the definition, he creates, there's a tell. Because he has Glaucon say, or he has Socrates lead Glaucon into saying, "Well, humans are just like guard dogs, right?" And Glaucon's like, "Yeah, certainly, yeah, like, we're like animals, like anything else." He's like, "Yeah, and like, a guardian would have to guard, a guard dog would have to guard." He's like, "Yep, yep, that's right, so shouldn't we train..." So, we could breed our guardians the way we would breed our dogs, or let's say our carrier pigeons, or whatever, right? And Glaucon's like, "Yeah, yeah, certainly, of course." And then they just go on, right? Like, you've just accepted some wildly, extremely big assumptions here, without any scratching.

• 1:59:17Speaker 02

  That's super uncharacteristic of everything Socrates and Plato, I'll say Plato, was known for doing. He would never, in any case, allow such a major topic to just be thrown away like that, and just be granted as an a priori acceptance, around which an entire meta, like, structure can be built on. And so, I think part of this is that you have noble intentions, we want to know what justice is, we know it's not justice, but let's figure out what it is. Now, he's looking at it, how it's maybe easier to see it in a society than it is in an individual, so that's where he starts to build up his society in the mind, right?

• 1:59:52Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 1:59:53Speaker 02

  And then he says, "Okay, well, let's say, it gets so big, we have some abundance, some affluence, well, at some point, we're gonna consume more land, and let's say, all of a sudden, we encroach upon the land of one of the other cities next to us."

• 2:00:03Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:00:04Speaker 02

  "Well, we're gonna go to war, right?" It's like, "Yeah, of course, we're gonna go to war." Well, that was an assumption. Like, you don't have, like, there's other pathways to that dialogue, but he just throws these leading questions that give you these stupid answers, in some ways.

• 2:00:16Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:00:17Speaker 02

  And then you're like, "Okay, well, now you want this perpetually perfect society", and he creates, again, clues to help the mind understand where it went wrong. Because the intention was noble, you had noble points of mind-blowing lessons embedded within it, but then by the end, you're like, "We're throwing babies off a cliff, we're like, creating noble lies to organize society around, according to an elite superstructure committed to stability over truth." You're like... That's uncharacteristic. And then you realize, well, this is where the neo-Platonists, who are often in, propped up into an oligarchical, like a governing class throughout human history, is you'll find people who'd identify as neo-Platonists, who are the ones managing

• 2:01:01Speaker 02

  the shitshow. And what they're doing is they're taking the actual, some of the worst elements of the literal interpretation of Plato, that they then use as their guide to try to manage their society in a caste system, the way Aldous Huxley does in The Brave New World.

• 2:01:15Danny Jones?

  This is why Socrates didn't want to write anything down, because he knew people would just fucking reinterpret shit, and fucking put their own meaning on shit and change it forever. And nothing would mean anything anymore.

• 2:01:24Speaker 02

  That's exactly right. I think you're totally right. Same thing for Confucius, too, right? He didn't write any of his stuff down, it was Mencius and his followers.

• 2:01:30Danny Jones?

  Right. Leave it out there. Leave it out there in the ether. You can download it when you're ready.

• 2:01:34Speaker 02

  It does help. And that's why I think Plato recognized the challenge of writing literal truths down, is that they're always, they're always interpretable. And he tried to write in them, like, create these controlled ambiguities. So he wrote in this type of way because he knew that humans had this tendency, which also can blow up in your face. Because if you don't have people who have a taste of their own, what their own minds naturally do when we're making discoveries.

• 2:01:57Danny Jones?

  Sure.

• 2:01:58Speaker 02

  Because let's say we've been processed in a Rockefeller-funded, you know, zoo of education, then we will misread what he's doing. Now, they will also, you have the Strausians. I don't know if you've heard of the Strausians?

• 2:02:09Danny Jones?

  I have, but you have to refresh me on what it is.

• 2:02:11Speaker 02

  It's followers of Leo Strauss, who is himself teaching that Plato had a secret doctrine. So a lot of his students became like Paul Wolf setter, Rumsfeld, Richard Pearl, like, a lot of the first second-generation neocons were trained under Strauss. And Strauss had what came to be known as a secret doctrine.

• 2:02:58Speaker 02

  And in his secret doctrine, he was teaching his students that there was so his exoteric students who weren't permitted to get his inner teachings would be given the story that, you know, he's a Plato scholar and he was brought in from from Europe. He's brought into new school in New York. And so he would teach the the commonly accepted interpretation of Plato as a philosopher, right? And then for the inner for the the students who were special.

• 2:03:26Danny Jones?

  The initiated?

• 2:03:27Speaker 02

  The initiated, who would come to him after class because he said certain things that he would drop his anomalies into the class, right? Because he was like, oh, but the gentleman would know better. And then he would go on. And some students in the audience were like, what's who's the gentleman? Why didn't he expand on that? And he knew that they would come to him and have a dialogue and he would bring him for ice cream or whatever, you know, for a beer afterwards in his in his house. And he would then bring them into a the idea that Socrates is Thrasymachus. So in his world, and there's been, I'll call it whistleblowers, but former students like Shadya Drury, who was one of his disciples, who realized that this is the sick thing that he had been doing, is he was actually teaching his inner his chosen students that Socrates is not Socrates. Socrates was just telling a lie to act like he had noble intentions for his readers,

• 2:04:11Speaker 02

  but actually was Thrasymachus, the the Hobbesian character who he seems to be debunking in Book One of the Republic, who says justice is might makes right, justice is the rule of the stronger, justice is who controls the noble lie. That's who Socrates actually is. That's his true essence, is the person he thinks he's you think that he's refuting.

• 2:04:32Danny Jones?

  Jesus.

• 2:04:33Speaker 02

  And then that's where the the neocons all formed their strategies around the teachings of Strauss, that we need to create these noble lies for the plebes to be organized around that will then get them to acquiesce to things that they would normally never acquiesce to for their own good, like Crusader wars, whatever surveillance states.

• 2:04:49Danny Jones?

  Yeah, he treated it like Scientology. You get them in, you get them in with the stuff that makes sense and the feel good stuff. And then you do the bait and switch once they get initiated and you tell them about Xenu. That's crazy. I had this lady on here a couple of months ago, this psychologist, who was explaining to me how she thinks that the forbidden fruit from the tree of knowledge was the written word or language. Not necessarily language, she thought it was like the written word.

• 2:05:25Danny Jones?

  Because she was explaining how like writing and language is inherently deceptive because of everything we just talked about. How it can be misinterpreted, how people can change it for whatever motives they choose. And the opposite of that would be intuitive knowledge. So she thinks she was, she, she was a psychologist who did a lot of research with those kids, those autistic kids, those telepathic kids from that telepathy tapes documentary. You familiar with it?

• 2:05:59Speaker 02

  Are you talking about like, like the?

• 2:06:01Danny Jones?

  So there's these kids.

• 2:06:02Speaker 02

  The regalia kids and stuff?

• 2:06:03Danny Jones?

  No, no, no, it's more recent. There's this, not a documentary, it's a podcast called The Telepathy Tapes. And it blew up here in America like a year ago, two, maybe two years ago, where there's all these autistic kids, these nonverbal autistic children who have these telepathic powers where they can communicate with their parents specifically, telepathically, and the parents describe this. And there's like this hill they all go to where there's a, all these telepathic nonverbal, or these nonverbal autistic kids, they can like go to some metaphysical location they call the hill where they can all play and talk to each other or whatever.

• 2:06:45Danny Jones?

  Like, like, like they're playing some sort of like, like on some LAN video game network, but it's like in telepathic universe. And the psychologist was there documenting a lot of it and interviewing a lot of those kids or whatever. She, she's under the belief that humans had the ability like way, way, way long ago to communicate telepathically like before language was ever a thing. And she believes like this intuitive knowledge that human beings have and that, that animals have, you know, like to be able to sense things that we can't see or taste or touch or whatever.

• 2:07:28Danny Jones?

  She believes the development of the written word and language is was what began to atrophy this ancient telepathic ability that humans had or more sensory abilities that humans used to have, similar to how some animals do. And so she believes that that was the forbidden fruit of knowledge was when they ate that, that was what it did. And it was a fork in the road from intuitive knowledge to the written world, which is as her case was that she was making was that it's inherently deceptive and that's we're like way far down that road now. Interesting. Pretty well, I thought it made a lot of sense.

• 2:08:07Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, I don't know if it's all that different necessarily from what Blavatsky was even saying earlier on as a, you know, within her secret doctrine that that human beings had in this primordial Atlantean, you know, earlier root race, these superpowers that we became detached to as we became more materialistic, which you can consider, I guess, symbolic of knowledge as an expression of the material, materialism that that roots us more in using logic and reason.

• 2:08:40Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 2:08:41Speaker 02

  But under a more rigid.

• 2:08:42Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:08:43Speaker 02

  Set of tools that have grammar associated with it and other things, right?

• 2:08:47Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:08:47Speaker 02

  Semantics.

• 2:08:49Danny Jones?

  Exactly.

• 2:08:51Speaker 02

  Or I guess what L. Ron Hubbard might even possibly be alluding to perhaps as we're being liberated from the operating thetans composing us, maybe we're solely learning how to use our.

• 2:09:01Danny Jones?

  That's what these are for.

• 2:09:02Speaker 02

  Powers.

• 2:09:02Danny Jones?

  That's what this thing's for. Have you seen those before?

• 2:09:04Speaker 02

  I have.

• 2:09:05Danny Jones?

  That's an E-meter.

• 2:09:06Speaker 02

  I thought you used the one outside.

• 2:09:07Danny Jones?

  It gives you a technological exorcism.

• 2:09:09Speaker 02

  Interesting.

• 2:09:10Danny Jones?

  We're in the hub of Scientology right now. L. Ron Hubbard's like main church he started, his first one was right there down the street.

• 2:09:15Speaker 02

  And that's the first one?

• 2:09:16Danny Jones?

  That was the first one, I believe. And his ship was parked, I know for a fact, right in that harbor right there.

• 2:09:20Speaker 02

  That's very interesting. I didn't know that. When I got out of the hotel and I looked outside, I was telling Steve, I was like, I saw, I've seen that, that Rosicrucian cross somewhere before.

• 2:09:28Danny Jones?

  This whole city is owned by Scientologists.

• 2:09:30Speaker 02

  Is it really now?

• 2:09:30Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:09:31Speaker 02

  Interesting. Interesting.

• 2:09:33Danny Jones?

  A lot of the, a lot of the most wealthy people around here are Scientologists. It's wild.

• 2:09:37Speaker 02

  Yeah. Fascinating stuff.

• 2:09:38Danny Jones?

  Yeah, they're all real estate tycoons.

• 2:09:40Speaker 02

  Oh, really?

• 2:09:40Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:09:41Speaker 02

  Huh. Probably just a coincidence.

• 2:09:46Speaker 02

  No, I mean, like, so, like, as, again, as a Platonist, I, I am trying to look for things that adhere to the best accounts of, of causation that increases my ability to problem solve, and that creates a resolution to as many internal contradictions as possible. Yeah. Definitely logos, when that was translated, it was mistranslated as the word, number one, but I think in the original Greek, the idea of logos is much more tied to a process. It's not like a noun, like, word is a noun, and it's an object. Logos, as, if you think of it as reason, well, that's something all of a sudden much more process-oriented, much more verb-based. Mm-hmm.

• 2:10:27Speaker 02

  And that could then be misused to, well, do you mean simply reason as logic, right? As like, how to use syllogistic logic of a priori, a posteriori lines of reasoning in order to find explanations that may or may not be true, but they're logically consistent? Yes. That is kind of stale and stagnant. It doesn't mean it doesn't have a place. It's symbolistic, like, symbolic logic and syllogistic logic is, it has a place, but it has to be used as a tool, I think, and, and the, like, love of truth, the love of wisdom, the love of these higher things, and that, that may or may not govern the, the application of the tool of logic. But I think wisdom, or the pursuit of wisdom, which is philosophy, is philosophia, right?

• 2:11:10Speaker 02

  It's not just Sophia, it's, it's not soph- it's not sophistry. It's the, the love of the wisdom. So, it's, if thought about, I think, in a, in a more, more noble way, then you're thinking of reason as something which is tied to the heart, which is much more based on the pursuit more than the capture of the thing, per se, and as you do pursue and learn to love the process, you find yourself actually more able to, to capture the targets that you're looking for, knowing that the targets that you're capturing isn't the final closed answer. Right. Right? So, you're, you're actually developing more of an instinct that is more intuitive-based, and it does give you, like, look at Bach, right? Like, he was a guy who... He was a fantastic piano player and composer, obviously.

• 2:11:51Speaker 02

  But he also saw, he had a relationship to music where he saw each, each work that he created as a prayer. It wasn't just, he was needing to make money, so he did do it for that too.

• 2:12:01Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:12:02Speaker 02

  Though it wasn't the final reason why he was doing it. So the reason what was causing him to compose, to create, was as an homage to the Creator. He is, right?

• 2:12:11Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:12:12Speaker 02

  Um, and how he used and framed the dissonances with, with, which he chose to infuse into various, uh, compositions were done with a purpose of resolution, with a, with a harmony. And he would be able to play in ways that were just mind blowing, like his, his, you know, the, uh, people would be, would just throw a little melody at him, you know, almost as a game.

• 2:12:31Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:12:31Speaker 02

  And just see that within a few minutes, he would come up with this incredible multi-layered, polyphonic composition of Counterpoint.

• 2:12:37Danny Jones?

  Crazy.

• 2:12:37Speaker 02

  And it's gorgeous, right? Because, but he earned it. It didn't come with him as a baby in a flash. It's something that he earned. He went through the, the work to come to know the keys. He learned the techniques, but then with a proper knowledge that he earned, he was then more and more freed and liberated to begin to play.

• 2:12:53Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:12:54Speaker 02

  And a lot of people, they want to skip that step. Like, that's what kind of disgusted me about my art school background is that the, the philosophy governing the, the arts program that I found myself in, in university, was very much based on skipping steps. Like, you know, you, anybody, like, we didn't learn any principles of artistic composition that were actually practiced by Rembrandt or by any of the Renaissance painters.

• 2:13:16Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:13:16Speaker 02

  So we, that was all treated as if it's like obsolete wisdom for the past, no, no longer applicable to the current age.

• 2:13:22Danny Jones?

  Interesting.

• 2:13:23Speaker 02

  I'm like, I, I would, I love these paintings. I'm like, can't we know more? Like, can't we try, we weren't allowed to use oils. That was disencouraged.

• 2:13:30Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 2:13:30Speaker 02

  Yeah. Um, and, and ultimately, the idea was to just philosophically make your audience, if you want to be a good artist, you, you should want to, and this is what I was taught by many of the teachers uh, in fine arts, make your audience squirm uncomfortably. Why? Okay, well, the, the, the, the theory of what justified that. Was, I get it, I don't agree with it, but it's that, you know, if the world is basically hypocrisy and corruption by design, there's something very, they're like, that's the way the world is. What seems beautiful on the surface in the world is actually a cover for the ugliness inside each person, inside of each society. And the purpose of the artist in their mind as an ideal would be to be a reflection of the truth.

• 2:14:15Speaker 02

  And the truth is ugly, so we should be mirrors of the ugliness and help tear down the surface appearance of the lies of beauty and lies of order and lies of goodness that make things intelligible or whatever. And thus, we should be as disruptive and as unintelligible and as emotionally ugly, basically we should appeal to the ugliness.

• 2:14:36Danny Jones?

  That's weird, you know, that's one of the weird things about art too nowadays, which has been, you know, you wonder how, to what extent it's been bastardized from what it was, you know, back then, is that the reason that most people pursue any sort of artistic endeavor now is for the end goal, is like the money or the, like the, the, the audience. Like, how many people are gonna see this? I'm gonna reverse engineer this, I wanna create something, I want a lot of people to see what I do, and I wanna make a lot of money, and let's work backwards from there, right?

• 2:15:09Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:15:10Danny Jones?

  Which definitely wasn't the case back then. I doubt, I doubt, that's why Picasso started fucking

• 2:15:14Speaker 02

  No, I don't think so either.

• 2:15:15Danny Jones?

  Creating his art.

• 2:15:17Speaker 02

  No, yeah, there's, there's definitely a purpose.

• 2:15:19Danny Jones?

  Well, Michelangelo did though, right? Michelangelo, he needed money, and that was part of the reason he did a lot of stuff.

• 2:15:26Speaker 02

  It doesn't mean you can't be an impressive artist and do it for the wrong reasons. It doesn't mean that.

• 2:15:30Danny Jones?

  Oh, I said Michelangelo, I meant to say Da Vinci, I'm sorry.

• 2:15:33Speaker 02

  I think Da Vinci was maybe a little bit more pure than Michelangelo in my assessment.

• 2:15:39Danny Jones?

  Okay. Both of them might work.

• 2:15:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't.

• 2:15:46Speaker 02

  I've not really studied too much of his codexes.

• 2:15:49Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:15:50Speaker 02

  It does seem like he was doing some interesting, you know, that's a whole other can of worms. Alright, so let's, let's pick and choose.

• 2:16:01Speaker 02

  I think one of, one of the problems with this, the way that art is conducted, like I, so I went through these extremes. In, in Canada, we have, or in Quebec, we have what are known, what are known as CGPs. They're kind of like preparatory, between high school and university, there's a CGP. The CGP, you have these three or four year, two, three or four year programs. And if you take a three year career program, it's basically a university degree. If you take a two year program, it's like a prep thing for university. So I did the three year thing, which was illustration and design, which is much more commercial based. So that was my focus was to get into commercial arts, illustration, storyboarding, things like that.

• 2:16:42Speaker 02

  And it, there's a lot of technique, a lot of, a lot of structure, not a lot of heart freedom, right? Like a limited amount of that.

• 2:16:48Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 2:16:50Speaker 02

  Most people were getting into kind of soulless gigs, who were getting gigs, which is why for me, after getting that, I was like, fuck, just not doing it for my heart. I need something else. And I went, when I went into university afterwards, I went into the fine arts filmmaking program. And, and that was the other extreme. It was like no thought, no mind, no structure, pure expression, right? So there's no precondition to learn what you're dealing with. You don't have to learn the science, like how to deal with color, colors properly. You don't have to deal with perspective properly. Like, none of these things were expected of you. You just have to be able to express yourself in an interesting way, typically with the intention of creating some form of discomfort in your audience in order to get a grant.

• 2:17:30Speaker 02

  In that world, you can only survive principally if you have a patron who's got an art gallery that can hook you up, which means that the patron has a lot of play over like what kind of aesthetics they're gonna endorse. Or in Canada's case, it's the Canadian, the Council of the Arts, which is a major taxpayer funded, uh, central committee that's been set up in the 50s in order to, to choose who gets a grant and who doesn't in the arts world. And that's become something that's increasingly ideologically driven by a small cast of characters who are vetted to be on the council. Who have perhaps the same ideological conditioning that they've been also groomed into that gave them the ability to have such a powerful position of managing hundreds of

• 2:18:14Speaker 02

  millions of dollars that go into a selected array of artists around Canada, right?

• 2:18:18Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:18:19Speaker 02

  And, uh, and people then become, they start deconstructing themselves and who they were in order to, again, you gotta make money, you gotta, you gotta get, you gotta make a name for yourself, you gotta make money. So then they start dancing to the tune that is expected of them and becoming the type of person that the former younger self might have despised.

• 2:18:39Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:18:40Speaker 02

  And, but you have to live your life. So you become increasingly that person.

• 2:18:43Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:18:43Speaker 02

  Which they do in science too. To get the grant, you have to necessarily adopt certain assumptions about global warming, about certain assumptions about standard model quantum mechanics or whatever. If you want to get published, you want to get peer reviewed, you want to get the grant, you want to keep your job. And the better you that was younger, that was more, that had more neuroplasticity, more of an honest heart, increasingly dissipates as you would adapt and become successful in that type of

• 2:19:07Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:19:08Speaker 02

  matrix, right?

• 2:19:09Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:19:09Speaker 02

  And you might seem on the surface to be a super successful person that people admire, but inside you're kind of like, you're lying to yourself and you probably know it and have maybe bad dreams if you're kind of honest, right?

• 2:19:19Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:19:20Speaker 02

  But then it becomes a self perpetuating thing because then the more people admire you, the more they then emulate you as their model, as young people are trying to model like what is a successful person. And it becomes a self feeding machine, right?

• 2:19:31Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:19:32Speaker 02

  As far as, yeah, like the story of the autistic telepathic kids, there's, there's, there's just facts I would want to know about. I wouldn't take any of that into myself as conviction. I would take it all in as information. And then I would use that as the basis to start my own investigation over like, are, is this, is this authentic data of what we're being told from what these kids are experiencing? Is there any common threads tying their families together, tying the people who are running the experiments together that may be nudging them in certain ways that I don't even know about yet? Is it investigatable?

• 2:20:08Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:20:09Speaker 02

  Um, I wouldn't presume that it's true. I'd presume like, so my first hypothesis is that there's shenanigans.

• 2:20:15Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 2:20:16Speaker 02

  Behind the scenes.

• 2:20:17Danny Jones?

  There absolutely is.

• 2:20:18Speaker 02

  Doing stage magic.

• 2:20:19Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 2:20:20Speaker 02

  Like the Yuri Geller stuff.

• 2:20:21Danny Jones?

  Yep.

• 2:20:22Speaker 02

  Um, and yeah. I'd start with that before I.

• 2:20:25Danny Jones?

  So do you think the Yuri Geller stuff's real? Do you think Yuri Geller really had all those powers?

• 2:20:29Speaker 02

  I don't think so.

• 2:20:30Danny Jones?

  You don't think he had any of it?

• 2:20:31Speaker 02

  I, I think he believed he did. I think he, to a certain degree, although I think he also knew that he was doing magic tricks, kinda like, like Johnny Carson, I have this clip in one of my, in the hidden hand behind UFO, episode four, from Johnny Carson, whatever, 1981, I don't know if you saw that episode?

• 2:20:49Danny Jones?

  No, I didn't see that one.

• 2:20:49Speaker 02

  It's the one where he brings in Yuri Geller, but in this case, Yuri Geller is very, very pissed off because he didn't, Carson, who's also a stage magician, he knows the tricks, had his team select the spoons and select the cups, and he didn't use Yuri Geller's chosen cups and chosen spoons, and Geller is really uncomfortable when he's confronted on live camera in front of an audience, without his preferred controlled accessories.

• 2:21:17Danny Jones?

  Yeah, my thing about Yuri Geller is I think, I'm open to the idea, I'm open to the possibility that what he was doing was real, and that he had some sort of abilities, whether it be like telekinetic stuff, or any kind of this psi stuff, I think, I tend to believe that there was something to it, right? If Puharsh was given all that money to study this stuff, I have to think there was something going on. And I think where it gets blurry there, where the waters start to get murky, is when you start to monetize it, and you start to go on TV shows, and you start to do like, big performances. Then you have to bring it to the surface on call, right? You have to be ready to make this stuff work, and I don't think you have that much control over it.

• 2:21:59Danny Jones?

  I believe if you do have these abilities and you can do it, I think it's probably something that happens randomly, or at least, at the very least, you don't get to choose when and if these things work. You know what I mean? Does that make sense?

• 2:22:19Speaker 02

  I get that, I get that.

• 2:22:20Danny Jones?

  So there has to be some level of shenanigans, or some level of stagecraft involved in it, if you're gonna monetize it?

• 2:22:27Speaker 02

  Do you, do you wanna play that, that clip? It's a long clip.

• 2:22:30Danny Jones?

  Yeah, how long is it? It's two minutes.

• 2:22:32Speaker 02

  Oh, you got the, you got the core of it, eh? Okay, sure.

• 2:22:35Danny Jones?

  Yeah, let's put these on to hear it.

• 2:22:36Speaker 02

  Really? Okay. Can I, can I drink one of these lukewarm drinks?

• 2:22:39Danny Jones?

  Yeah, it's kratom. You want a cold one?

• 2:22:41Speaker 02

  Uh, no.

• 2:22:41Danny Jones?

  Have you ever had kratom?

• 2:22:42Speaker 02

  No. Is it gonna like, cause my head to spin or something?

• 2:22:45Danny Jones?

  No, no, no, it's a, it's like a, it's a, it's just like a very mild stimulant, but is that a cold one?

• 2:22:49Speaker 02

  No.

• 2:22:49Danny Jones?

  I can get you a cold one. Let's take a quick break, I gotta pee anyways, we'll be right back.

• 2:22:54Danny Jones?

  Alright, hit it, Steve.

• 2:22:59Speaker 05

  Nice to see you.

• 2:23:01Speaker 06

  Thanks.

• 2:23:01Speaker 05

  We, uh, we have only met-

• 2:23:03Speaker 06

  This scares me.

• 2:23:04Speaker 05

  This scares you? Well, this is, we just got some things together here.

• 2:23:07Speaker 07

  I told them to provide their own props and not to let Yeller or his people anywhere near them.

• 2:23:13Speaker 05

  One of our staff members, uh, did some drawings which have been sealed in an envelope. And I'd like you to take your own pace when you feel like you want to try anything. Do you want to try that particular experiment first?

• 2:23:24Speaker 06

  When I'll feel free.

• 2:23:25Speaker 05

  When you, hm, sure.

• 2:23:29Speaker 06

  We'll start eliminating the ones that do not have the water.

• 2:23:32Speaker 05

  All right, without touching them.

• 2:23:34Speaker 06

  He is really suspicious, you know. I'm having a hard time with you.

• 2:23:39Speaker 05

  Okay, I don't mean to be, all right? I really don't.

• 2:23:41Speaker 06

  Just, just keep looking.

• 2:23:46Speaker 06

  Okay, let me rest a little, all right?

• 2:23:48Speaker 05

  All right.

• 2:23:52Speaker 06

  You know, I'm surprised because before this program, your producer came and he read me please forty questions you're gonna ask me.

• 2:23:58Speaker 05

  Well, I can ask you all kinds of questions if you'd like, if you'd like me to ask you questions.

• 2:24:02Speaker 06

  I have to have time and, uh, um...

• 2:24:08Danny Jones?

  More to come.

• 2:24:11Danny Jones?

  Did they really break it right there?

• 2:24:12Speaker 05

  Start, we're back. Your furry was telling me you don't feel that strong tonight, is that-

• 2:24:17Speaker 06

  I don't feel strong. It's not all tonight. Right now I'm feel, I'm feeling being pressed and then I can't-

• 2:24:24Speaker 05

  Well, I'm not trying to impress you, I really not, but, you know-

• 2:24:26Speaker 06

  No, you're only telling me, well, will you try that, or that?

• 2:24:29Speaker 05

  Well, I thought that was the idea of, uh, of, uh, no, I'm not, I'm not trying to put you down.

• 2:24:38Speaker 02

  That's funny. It's like a much longer video. Yeah. Overall. Yeah. Painful but interesting, um... Yeah, it is.

• 2:24:47Danny Jones?

  It's unfortunate.

• 2:24:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:24:48Danny Jones?

  But you can see, I mean, you could, you know, to be generous, you could see how if those powers or those abilities were real in like a super stressful situation, they maybe won't work or whatever, just like anything, right?

• 2:25:03Speaker 02

  Well, I think that there's a trend I've noticed-

• 2:25:05Danny Jones?

  You're gonna do some crazy trick that I've done before on my skateboard, and I got like a crowd of people watching and cameras, there's a good chance I'm probably not gonna make it happen.

• 2:25:11Speaker 02

  He's performed in, in live audiences quite a bit.

• 2:25:13Danny Jones?

  No, yeah, I know that, I know that.

• 2:25:15Speaker 02

  All that to say, there does seem to be a trend, um, of sort of hope, uh, fakery, even going back to, you know, the Hodgson Committee.

• 2:25:24Danny Jones?

  Yep.

• 2:25:26Speaker 02

  Or you know about that, right? So yeah, Madame Blavatsky was renowned for selling herself as this great supernatural telepath who could interface with the ascended masters and even get them to give her letters and, you know, materialize cups and messages for her to give to her followers and all sorts of things. And it was discovered that a lot of it was stage magic, where she had trap doors inside of her Adyar operation, that there are all sorts of different techniques, even her own handwriting was used for some of the messages from Koutume and Maria. And then you even had the British Society for Cycle Research

• 2:26:05Speaker 02

  carry out their Hodgson Committee, like, report that did validate a lot of these claims made by certain insiders who were kind of sickened by the fact that they were participating in. So it's like, did she know it? Did she think that this stuff was justified in order to get people to stay in a pure, emotional, spiritual state of superstition, to be more receptive to the spiritual messages? I don't know how she justified it. I think to a certain degree, she definitely believed she had these powers, just like I really do believe if you gave him a lie detector test, he would say that he does. But the power of self deceit

• 2:26:46Speaker 02

  is quite astounding as well. We can tell ourselves all sorts of amazing stories that we could end up living into, despite evidence to the contrary. Look at our society around us, right? There's so much evidence that people are confronted with that could show them that COVID-19 was a different, completely different game than what they thought that they lived into.

• 2:27:07Danny Jones?

  Look at the Rainbow Serpent tribe in Haiti. Like, they literally believe they turn into zombies, and they walk around like zombies for days after they eat the fucking pufferfish venom. It's like the power of belief, like, is insane.

• 2:27:18Speaker 02

  I see. So they they they're informed, they've been informed of the science of the pufferfish venom and what it can do, and they can't accept that science, and then they choose to instead continue to believe the story.

• 2:27:32Danny Jones?

  Yeah, well, they they believe that they believe that that dexotoxin that comes out of those pufferfish, when they consume it, because it does actually paralyze the body for a good amount of time, that they bury the people after they take it, and then they, when the pufferfish venom wears off, they turn into zombies.

• 2:27:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:27:49Danny Jones?

  Well, their religion and their heritage is a zombie religion, and they they quite literally believe that this ritual turns them into a zombie.

• 2:27:57Speaker 02

  And what's the name of this this tribe?

• 2:27:59Danny Jones?

  Find out what it's called. It's a it's a.

• 2:28:02Speaker 02

  It's like a Haitian?

• 2:28:03Danny Jones?

  Haitian. It's called the Haitian. It's a Haitian voodoo zombie.

• 2:28:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:28:08Danny Jones?

  Religion, cult. And there was a researcher, who was a psychedelic researcher, a chemist, a chemist, and a, I forget his actual actual term of what he studied, but anyways, he he studied that actual toxin, and they did a study on it, and they were trying to see if that had that same effect on anybody else, and it didn't. And what they came to find out was that it was because of the belief that these people had on this island that practiced that religion, is what literally it affects their physiology and every part of their body and their mind to where that it has this effect on them.

• 2:28:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, so there's there's it's an incredible thing, the power of mind and the power of myth making, both for macro societies, but also for individuals, and what a myth can do for ourselves, as far as coloring our dreams. If we meditate on on a on something that we want to believe is true, we're more likely to find it to be true, even if it's not true, right? Just like if you don't believe something is true, you're more likely not to find it, even if it is true.

• 2:29:07Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:29:08Speaker 02

  Uh, but you don't believe it. You could see.

• 2:29:10Danny Jones?

  The Haitian, the rainbow serpent?

• 2:29:11Speaker 02

  Oh, the Yoruba, the Yorubas.

• 2:29:13Danny Jones?

  Ayida Webo.

• 2:29:15Speaker 02

  Oh, okay. So it comes from West Africa.

• 2:29:18Danny Jones?

  Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:29:21Speaker 02

  That's interesting. Whatever the hell happened to the Yorubas is a wild.

• 2:29:24Danny Jones?

  So does it give you a description of how the whole process works?

• 2:29:28Speaker 02

  Is that the case where where they found that people in Haiti would occasionally?

• 2:29:31Danny Jones?

  Let me see what you searched, Steve. Let's crystal. Let's. Okay. Okay. Type in Haiti zombie ritual.

• 2:29:44Danny Jones?

  Haiti zombie ritual.

• 2:29:50Danny Jones?

  Okay, here it is. The Zombification Ritual. The process begins when the Boko, yeah, the Boko, punishes a victim by administering the complex power of the powder. The powder is typically made from human remains, poisonous toads, and pufferfish containing tetra tox. Tetra, tetrotoxin. The toxin induces a state of near-death paralysis and catalepsy so profound that the victims are often declared deceased and buried. The resurrection. Hours or days after the burial, the Boko exhumes the victim and revives them to maintain control, to maintain control in a permanent catatonic state. The sorcerer administers further concoctions, often featuring dissociative and psychoactive plants

• 2:30:33Danny Jones?

  like Detoura, which contains scopolamine. And the investigations, Wade Davis, that was the researcher. He's an ethnobotanist. So Wade Davis did a whole investigation on this tribe and the phenomena that was happening. And, um, yeah, what he found out is it does not have that effect on anybody else.

• 2:30:54Speaker 02

  Absolutely fascinating. It doesn't have an effect on anybody else.

• 2:30:57Danny Jones?

  Just the people in that tribe.

• 2:30:57Speaker 02

  The belief function is playing a big role in activating the eight. Cause you, I guess, without that, that substance going into them, this toxin, would they still get that effect? Like, if you gave them a placebo, would they still get that effect?

• 2:31:09Danny Jones?

  Maybe, maybe, yeah.

• 2:31:10Speaker 02

  Curious. I know that there was a case of this fellow, I think it's Edwin, Edwin, Edwin Washington Irving. Washington, no, it was Washington Irving. Forgot his last name. But he was a very interesting debunker of a lot of the spiritualists of the 1850s, 60s, 70s, 80s. He ends up dying in 1889, but he's made a lot of enemies. He was young, too. I think he's like 39. And one of his major topics was teaching how the, these various mediums, the spirit mediums that were very big across all of the United States at that time, that's, you know. Blavatsky was in the US studying, actually doing spiritualism and acting as a spirit

• 2:31:53Speaker 02

  medium with Alcott when they met originally at the Fox Sisters, one of her displays, one of the displays of, I think it was the Fox Sisters. And anyway, this guy was showing how not only a lot of their tricks worked onstage for public audiences, but also how some of the toxins were used to shut down, to create like catatonic states that would appear as though you were dead. And hours later, or sometimes days later, you'd be brought back to life as part of a way of conveying the image that within a lot of these rituals, the person had literally died, either the person carrying out the sorcery had died and come back, or that somebody that they had done, that they were, one of their targets had come back to life, right?

• 2:32:35Speaker 02

  That made that person much more devoted as an adherent to whatever that person, whatever the shaman is gonna say, whatever the spirit medium is gonna say. Right. And he was actually doing these tricks onstage. Washington Irving. Interesting. Forget his last name. Anyway, he ends up getting killed. And his mother is campaigning across America for years after he dies in 1889 to bring awareness to the fact that he was targeted and was murdered by his enemies, because there were two doctors stationed who were both spiritualists in the front row of one of his shows in New York, who immediately, though they knew what the show was about, immediately took his catatonic body, brought it to the back, behind stage, and to some, one room that they locked themselves in, in this manor, or this, whatever it was, and immediately did an autopsy.

• 2:33:20Speaker 02

  Whoa. Yeah, even though he let it be known, "I'm not actually dead." And he had cards and everything informing people, "If they find my body, do fucking autopsy me, I'm alive." And they killed him, right? And that was one of the things, meeting her as, after he died, and I think she met Harry Houdini. So Harry Houdini was a young guy, he just came to prominence in the 1893 period as a stage magician, and it was meeting her in, I think, 1898 or so, that he learnt of a lot of the dark operations and lies within the medium that he was becoming very good at adapting to, like he was learning all All the tricks, he was becoming the best at everything he was putting his mind to.

• 2:34:01Speaker 02

  And he ended up sponsoring the last years of her life and paying for her writings to be published across the United States. So she formed a lot of his strategy. So when you read his writings of what he's doing, working for American intelligence, what he's doing, working for. Even in 1907, he writes a book exposing Houdin, Robert Houdin, who's the name of a great French stage magician and medium. Who he took the name from, the name Harry Houdini is a name he selected based on on the naive idea he had of his hero. The great, the great Houdin, Robert Houdin. Really? And in the, in the book that he publishes in 1907, he exposed, he learnt, like he, he's teaching you.

• 2:34:45Speaker 02

  All of his discoveries that he made along the way into the espionage networks, the occult espionage networks that he ties Cagliostro. Into, because Cagliostro was Ostro carrying out stage magic, acting like it was real magic while he was working. In espionage during the French Revolution. Whoa. Setting up the, the Egyptian right, right? He's working also with Saint Germain, whoever the hell that was, or whatever that was.

• 2:35:09Speaker 02

  Mesmer was also part of the same network. And so Cagliostro is being brought up directly by Houdini in that 1907 book that's available and he carries, he carries you through. A story of the occult or the role of stage magic in espionage and mass psychological formation of, of target audiences. Wow. That Houdin, who was working as well for Napoleon III as an emissary for the French, for Napoleon III in North Africa. In the courts of various Arab target states that were designed to be seduced. By the story of the, the power of the magic of Napoleon III, who would then. Create alliances that had very big political implications in the, in the great game.

• 2:35:52Speaker 02

  So Houdini was really solid and you know, he, he came at it with a good spirit. He was trying to not say, I'm, I'm, he's not, he, he was very clear to say, I'm not trying to debunk magic. I'm not trying to debunk the supernatural. I'm just noticing that there's a lot of fakery. And if somebody could showcase. An example to me of being an honest medium, channeling, like doing necromancy and channeling a message from the beyond, from whatever higher powers or the dead. And just do it in a way that I can't debunk. Yeah. I want to believe it because he's like, I have loved ones I want to talk to. And his whole life, he was very, very honest about that. Unfortunately, he. He kept on discovering how these tricks are made, like even his house. He brought in some of the, the top psychics of his day into his house just before he dies.

• 2:36:36Speaker 02

  The last six years, he really goes full hog when he starts seeing, I think, the spiritual, that's him, Washington Irving, Irving Bishop, thank you. That's him. Eighteen, eighteen, eighteen fifty-five to eighteen eighty-nine.

• 2:36:48Danny Jones?

  Stage mentalist.

• 2:36:50Speaker 02

  Yes, that's right. That's right.

• 2:36:53Danny Jones?

  He is known for his well-known performance of the blindfold drive.

• 2:36:57Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:36:59Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 2:37:00Speaker 02

  And that's, that's important where he says there, his article accused the physicist and spiritualist of William Crookes of being duped by Fay, Anna Eva Fay.

• 2:37:09Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:37:10Speaker 02

  That's very important because William Crookes, he comes up a lot in my book, volume two of The Revenge of the Mystery Cults. He was simulta-, he's one of the few people who at different times in his life was the president of the British Royal Society. Um, so the science, the sci-, the scientific institution, he was the president of that, but he was also the president of the British Society for Psychological Research. Um, and was devoted to trying to provide a scientific veneer to justify why trans mediums and other things were scientifically valid. He was also a major influencer, actually that's a whole story. Read my book.

• 2:37:47Danny Jones?

  So how did Houdini get involved with intelligence?

• 2:37:52Speaker 02

  That is chapter eleven of my Revenge of the Mystery Cults, volume two, called The Rosicrucian Golem. And it's the one that has Nikola Tesla, Elon Musk, uh, Isaac Newton, and, uh, Charles Darwin on the cover.

• 2:38:09Danny Jones?

  And what intelligence, like what?

• 2:38:12Speaker 02

  It was originally American intelligence, so you had, I think, it seems, there were several branches, uh, you had some, one grouping within British intelligence that I think thought that they could use him for their advantage. So he was performing as a celebrity in a lot of the leading courts of Europe, including Russian courts. And because of the, everyone loves magic. So that gives you access in ways that otherwise would be impossible, right? To conversations, to relationships that you can develop with courtiers, with high level people who you can maybe seduce if they're a bit more mystically inclined, you can get-

• 2:38:49Danny Jones?

  Get invited to presidential dinners.

• 2:38:50Speaker 02

  You know, all of a sudden you're doing Calvin Coolidge's like seances to speak to his dead kids or, you know, and all of a sudden that gives you an ability to influence what's going on inside of policymaking circles and like Harry Houdini. So there were networks of patriotic American intelligence networks that people like Edgar Allan Poe, and I'm pretty sure Washington Irving Bishop were also a part of, that were offshoots of the Society of Cincinnati. That started off as, I think, a pretty patriotic organization that became increasingly corrupt in time, because it was still hereditary, and that's a problem. But anyway, there were these things that Abraham Lincoln was interfacing with, I think

• 2:39:32Speaker 02

  Lincoln's original Secret Service, that was one of the last acts he did while in office before he gets killed by the, by the Order of the Golden Circle, which is this racist Confederate secret society around Albert Pike that, that his, yeah, that basically carries out his assassin. They had a whole, that becomes the paramilitary group that sets up the KKK right after Lincoln is killed. But his last act in office before getting killed, before going to the play, was to sign into law the Secret Service. So I think the first couple of generations of the Secret Service had a lot more honest patriotic forces operating within that milieu than perhaps what came later around JFK's time.

• 2:40:15Speaker 02

  There were certain Masonic networks too, I think, that were still residuals who were important and who were battling the Rosa Crucean takeover of a lot of the American masonry that was really a big fight in the 19th century. And there were still residuals of, I think, the more authentic Freemasons that Harry Houdini was a, was a member of, that, you know, Franklin Roosevelt-

• 2:40:36Danny Jones?

  He was a Freemason?

• 2:40:37Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, yeah. But not all Freemasons are created equal, not all strands of the movement had the same lineage, right? Some are outright-

• 2:40:44Danny Jones?

  I'm in outer space right now, I don't have any knowledge about what you're talking about, so I'm just sort of like going with, going with it, so I might not have many good questions, but I'm, this is fascinating. So Lincoln was killed by, by the-

• 2:40:59Danny Jones?

  The pre KKK, which was a paramilitary group?

• 2:41:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, so John Wilkes Booth. There's a book called City of Secrets by Barry Shihi that I used a lot in my research, which is a great book, 2017, and it goes through the role of the British, so British Canada was a Confederate intelligence hub throughout the entirety of the Cold War. Uh, sorry, Civil War.

• 2:41:26Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:41:26Speaker 02

  And John Wilkes Booth has letters that have survived, talking to a relative where he's describing the five weeks spent in Montreal at the St. Lawrence Hall, which was, I think, it was run by the Mazzini of America, what's his name?

• 2:41:45Speaker 02

  Saunders, George Saunders, a Colonel with the Confederacy who ran a big chunk of the Confederate operations in Canada. He was a close friend of Tzatzepi Mazzini and had formerly been the US Consul to London under President Pierce, who was sort of the Freemasonic president in the 1850s. That was a whole Freemasonic presidency, like everybody was just like high level, but on the bad side of the game. And Wilkes Booth writes, saying how the five weeks he spent are like a dream. He doesn't quite remember what happened to him, but he knows it was the most important experience in his life.

• 2:42:24Danny Jones?

  Whoa.

• 2:42:25Speaker 02

  I cite big chunks of that letter in my book on...

• 2:42:30Speaker 02

  That was, that was in Clash, I wrote a book called Clash of the Two Americas, The Unfinished Symphony, Volume One, and at the 13th chapter, I cite from that book and his letters quite a bit. But he was a member of the Knights of the Golden Circle, and that was set up in 18...

• 2:42:47Danny Jones?

  Booth?

• 2:42:47Speaker 02

  Booth, yeah.

• 2:42:48Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:42:49Speaker 02

  I think all of the executives, all of the top brass of the Confederacy were all

• 2:42:52Danny Jones?

  What was the Knights of the Golden Circle?

• 2:42:54Speaker 02

  It was set up in 1852, you can probably Google that. It was set up in 1852, I think that it seems to overlap with the co-founding of the Benai Breth. Uh, which was set up in 1852 as well.

• 2:43:10Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:43:10Speaker 02

  Or 1854, yeah.

• 2:43:11Danny Jones?

  Secret Society founded in 1854 by American, uh, George Bickley.

• 2:43:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, there you go.

• 2:43:17Danny Jones?

  Its objective initially was to expand the United States into Latin America, adding slave states and ensuring the permanent, uh, continuance of slavery.

• 2:43:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:43:26Danny Jones?

  Okay, got it.

• 2:43:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's, that, that's where they began their attempted takeover of Cuba.

• 2:43:34Speaker 02

  Which was supposed to be, if you look at the graphs that they published for their own membership, would, it basically featured a, what's a, a golden circle geographically, right? And it basically has Cuba as the center, sort of headquarters of this emergent island empire.

• 2:43:50Danny Jones?

  Whoa.

• 2:43:51Speaker 02

  Yeah. And it would involve-

• 2:43:52Danny Jones?

  And they think Atlantis is near Cuba, too.

• 2:43:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:43:54Danny Jones?

  Wow, what the fuck, what's that about?

• 2:43:55Speaker 02

  Probably no coincidence.

• 2:43:57Danny Jones?

  What the fuck, dude?

• 2:43:59Speaker 02

  So-

• 2:44:00Danny Jones?

  We need Kurt, we gotta call, we gotta phone Kurt.

• 2:44:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, bring Kurt on fast.

• 2:44:06Speaker 02

  Um, yeah, I don't know, yeah, there it is, yes.

• 2:44:07Danny Jones?

  Oh, wow!

• 2:44:08Speaker 02

  Right, there it is, yeah. So that's what they wanted, had they succeeded in properly seceding from the Union, their next step, people say, oh, they were just gonna be left alone, they weren't gonna cause anybody any problems. It's like, no, they actually had a stated goal of continuing-

• 2:44:21Danny Jones?

  There are so many deep underwater ruins right in the center of that area of Cuba, too.

• 2:44:26Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 2:44:27Danny Jones?

  And that's where the, that, that includes Bimini Road, where some people like Graham Hancock think that that was, but, you know, I don't know, that's interesting, very interesting that that's, that, I had no idea about this.

• 2:44:36Speaker 02

  It causes me a little bit of concern to see the amount of emphasis placed upon today's ambition to create like a new technate, right, a new North American technate with Cuba and, uh, US dominance in Venezuela.

• 2:44:49Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:44:50Speaker 02

  So I'm thinking to myself, maybe not, maybe that's not a coincidence, Albert Pike was a very, very high level member of the Golden Circle as well, you know, and Albert Pike's role in reshaping the, uh, or reconstituting the Scot, the Southern branch of the Scottish right is not insignificant, his role in also influencing the creation of the KKK. And the Ku Klux Klan is, is actually related directly to, um, the Golden Circle, cause Ku Klux, Ku Klux in Greek means circle. Um.

• 2:45:20Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 2:45:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, so it's just sort of a rebranding in my mind. They had about a, according to their own estimates, there were about 80,000 members of this secret order in the 1850s, probably a few more even by the, by the time the Civil War began. And, uh, yeah, like KK, sorry, not KK, uh, Pike had, uh, even though he was dead by this time, um, his statue, right, was set up in Washington DC in 1902, right at the same moment that McKinley was killed. And McKinley was, I think, the, the last authentic Lincoln Republican who was trying to revive Lincoln's true policies.

• 2:45:56Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:45:57Speaker 02

  Um, Lincoln was, uh, so when McKinley was killed by an anarchist assassin in that, right in 1902, immediately the Albert Pike statue was erected with the, with the arrival of Teddy Roosevelt into power. And Teddy Roosevelt begins what? The big stick diplomacy. So he's the guy who now first comes out really embracing the, the Roosevelt corollary to the Monroe Doctrine.

• 2:46:19Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:46:19Speaker 02

  And starts using that as a justification to expand the influence of the military industrial complex, the Rockefeller big, big oil operation everywhere across Latin America. And, um, I think that, that influence is still there considering that there's a huge rehabilitation of Teddy Roosevelt, Teddy Rooseveltism currently under the current administration.

• 2:46:38Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 2:46:39Speaker 02

  So I'm seeing, I'm, and also the fact that Albert Pike statue, which was taken down some years back, was just reinstated, uh, in, I think it was July of 2025.

• 2:46:48Danny Jones?

  What?

• 2:46:49Speaker 02

  Yeah. And I think for those in the know, it's, it's a direct statement of intention. That's how I'm reading that stuff is like, this is like

• 2:46:56Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 2:46:56Speaker 02

  A manifesto or something.

• 2:46:58Danny Jones?

  So what's your best guess on what happened during those five weeks with Booth? John Wilkes Booth?

• 2:47:03Speaker 02

  I don't know. There's, there's all kinds of cults and communes that have been set up across the East Coast and Canada, it's no exception, um, by the enemies of the ideals of the Republic.

• 2:47:14Danny Jones?

  Do you think they did some sort of like Manchurian candidate mind control shit to him?

• 2:47:17Speaker 02

  Probably. I mean, he was an actor and they really like actors because they're already kind of habituated to go into outer body experiences.

• 2:47:23Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:47:23Speaker 02

  States, so they're much more conducive to sculpting.

• 2:47:26Danny Jones?

  Right, that's interesting.

• 2:47:28Speaker 02

  Yeah. Um, so probably I, I would imagine so. Um, Confederate statue toppled in Washington.

• 2:47:36Danny Jones?

  Just reinstated, October of 2025.

• 2:47:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, there you go, October, eh?

• 2:47:42Speaker 02

  So that that bothers me a little bit.

• 2:47:45Danny Jones?

  That's concerning.

• 2:47:47Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 2:47:51Speaker 02

  And if you remember from my discussion with Kurt Metzger, we were talking, he wanted to know a lot about the Oneida cult.

• 2:47:59Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I don't know anything about that.

• 2:48:01Speaker 02

  I did. So that's that's volume.

• 2:48:04Danny Jones?

  Oneida?

• 2:48:05Speaker 02

  Oneida. Yeah, that's in volume three of the Revenge of the Mystery Cults. I did a chapter on the killer of McKinley. No, Garfield. Because President, after Lincoln dies, right, then President Garfield also was assassinated in 1880. And then later on, 20 years later, McKinley is assassinated.

• 2:48:22Danny Jones?

  So many presidents get assassinated.

• 2:48:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, and they're all doing the same kind of thing, right? If you look at what they're doing policy wise, it's not that different. And who are their enemies that they're, even though they're separated by many generations, right? JFK to McKinley, separated by 60 years to Lincoln, which is 100 years to JFK. But if you look at the concrete political, economic and military policies and the overarching philosophy that is animating their sense, their paradigm of how to interpret foreign relations, military action, political strategies. It's drawing from the exact same source and the exact same, I think, authentic reading of what the Constitution and the American system should have been and wasn't its best small moments now and again. And so the enemies that they're all making are the same

• 2:49:04Speaker 02

  structures, even though it's multi-generational, right? The people are all dead who killed McKinley, who killed McKinley when JFK is getting killed. But it's the same institutions, it's the same traditions that are carrying out a similar protocol.

• 2:49:18Danny Jones?

  Which is something that's above any sort of nation state.

• 2:49:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's above nation. It goes into nation states, it penetrates into, but it's not coming out of the nation state.

• 2:49:26Danny Jones?

  Right. Yeah, it's above it. It's above it, but it has its tentacles reaching down into it.

• 2:49:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's kind of Lovecraftian in that sense.

• 2:49:35Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 2:49:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:49:37Danny Jones?

  Yeah, have any other, has there, is there any other country who's had so many presidents assassinated?

• 2:49:42Speaker 02

  I don't think so. It's kind of a young country comparatively to have so many leaders. And there's, if you think about, that was actually the drawing, what caused me to even embark upon this study that became my four volume, because I did a four volume study of Clash of the Two Americas over the course of a number of years. And that was one of the paradoxes that was, that drove me forward was like, why the hell did so many American presidents die while in office? Because it's like, if you consider four by bullet, four by mysterious means not bullet, probably poisoning, I could label them off right, you want to label them off?

• 2:50:17Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:50:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, okay, we got William Harrison in 1841, after three weeks of being president, he dies, keels over. About a decade later, you got Zachary Taylor, another Whig president, who's a precursor to what becomes the better Republican Party in 1856. So, he keels over after two and a half years. The cause of death for him is too many cherries and cold milk is the official autopsy cause of death.

• 2:50:48Danny Jones?

  Oh yeah, did he start like vomiting bile or something, vomiting some black stuff?

• 2:50:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, vomiting black shit. Exactly.

• 2:50:54Danny Jones?

  Black sludge?

• 2:50:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, and died a painful death, it was terrible. But he was also the guy who was the direct enemy of the Golden Circle. So when he was in power, the Golden Circle was just getting set up. And he went to war, he imprisoned their, one of their leading members who was organizing the invasion of Cuba, with this whole program, he imprisoned this guy, whose name, I hadn't thought about this for a while. Anton Shaken did some good work. If you look at the historian Anton Shaken, I learned a lot of my research methods from this guy's work. And he created so many leads in his Treason in America book that is still available for free online, it's really worth picking up. And he goes through all of the names, all of the details that are all substantiable and

• 2:51:36Speaker 02

  provable. So Zachary Taylor, he dies, then you have Lincoln. Clearly, we know that that one. Garfield again, 1880, his assassin, like I spoke with Kurt about this one, seemed to have been spawned out of or engineered out of the Oneida commune that he was a part of. I think he was even born into it. His parents at least were a part of it. That seemed to have created a brainwashed assassin that was then assigned as a disposable asset to go in and carry out the task. Then McKinley dies in 1902. What do you got there?

• 2:52:10Speaker 03

  US is the top.

• 2:52:12Danny Jones?

  Oh, he's asking how many? What did you ask it?

• 2:52:15Speaker 03

  How many leaders?

• 2:52:18Danny Jones?

  List the top countries with the most leaders assassinated in history. United States is number one. Number two is Russia.

• 2:52:23Speaker 02

  And they're not even acknowledging the poisoning, right? They're just looking at Lincoln, Garfield, McKinley, and Kennedy. But in terms of those where there's enough evidence for, I think, like, for poisoning?

• 2:52:34Danny Jones?

  These are just bullet kills.

• 2:52:35Speaker 02

  These are bullet kills, yeah. Because you got Warren Harding in 1923, or 24, 23. Warren Harding is in there for like, two years. He's battling the League of Nations, which was being sold to the world as being the foundation for like, the New World Order and the replacement to nation states. And he's battling that thing with bipartisan patriots from both parties who all understand what the fight is about much better than today's political class does. And they're undermining the League of Nations early on, and he gets killed. A lot of his allies also die around that same time.

• 2:53:07Speaker 02

  FDR, I would say, I would throw him on the list, too. Franklin Roosevelt was just six months into his fourth term, and he dies in a very, very strange way. He gets sick super fast after Yalta. And Stalin is very convinced that Stalin tells Roosevelt's son...

• 2:53:25Speaker 02

  Forgot the son's name, who wrote a book. Anyway, Stalin has an interview with Roosevelt's son, who publishes the interview decades later where Stalin is quite convinced that Churchill's gang killed his father.

• 2:53:37Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 2:53:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, they wanted to control the terms of the new world order after World War II, and turn the USA basically into an instrument for British brains, that would then reconstitute the empire under a slightly more Anglo or American veneer, but not really be American in its essence.

• 2:53:55Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:53:56Speaker 02

  We all know about JFK, so I think we're racking it up, you know? Bobby Kennedy would have been president, guaranteed in 68. He was even working, he was collaborating at that time very closely with Martin Luther King Jr.

• 2:54:07Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:54:08Speaker 02

  So that's a whole different timeline that one could imagine could have gone very, very differently.

• 2:54:13Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:54:14Speaker 02

  And then there's people who weren't quite president, but who died, again, who had a lot of political clout over the years, who died like, a guy who FDR was gonna make his attorney general, Thomas, oh, what's his name? Who, who basically dies the day before he was gonna be attorney general, and he was on, on record publicly saying he was going to fire J. Edgar Hoover in 1933.

• 2:54:36Danny Jones?

  Thomas Dewey?

• 2:54:37Speaker 02

  Nope, no, not Thomas Dewey.

• 2:54:39Danny Jones?

  Interesting.

• 2:54:40Speaker 02

  Walsh, Thomas, well, you're fast, man. I didn't even give you that much to work with with that, those. Yeah, Thomas Walsh.

• 2:54:48Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 2:54:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:54:50Danny Jones?

  Died of a heart attack, two days before his inauguration.

• 2:54:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, and he was on record saying he was gonna reorganize the FBI and fire J. Edgar Hoover. Hoover was also getting a reputation as being a, yeah, man, it's, it's quite something, isn't it?

• 2:55:05Danny Jones?

  So it's like, oh my god, dude, it's like that fucking movie. What's that movie called, with Matt Damon, where they basically control reality, and they can like pause reality and go back and like change it? Bureau? Yeah, Adjustment Bureau. Who is this fucking shadowy organization, like today? Like right now, you go like, who, who are these people? And you have the president, the Trump thing?

• 2:55:31Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 2:55:32Danny Jones?

  The Trump thing where he gets his ear shot, the blood on his ear, and like, that was like, so bizarre. That almost defies all reason.

• 2:55:40Speaker 02

  That was stage magic.

• 2:55:41Danny Jones?

  That that was, yeah. It feels like stage magic, doesn't it?

• 2:55:43Speaker 02

  It does. It does.

• 2:55:47Danny Jones?

  So, so who is it? Who, what is this layer?

• 2:55:54Speaker 02

  I think that at the, at least what gets us closer to a causal nexus would be something that is closer, tied more closely to certain chivalric orders that are, that found their origins in the Crusades a thousand years ago. And that are tied to certain patrician families that go back quite a ways and have their own internal set of behavioral standards, their own internal culture that is maintained for the governing class. And certain belief structures, certain cosmologies, certain ideas of human nature and, you know, the big things, the big questions that are maintained and reserved for those who will

• 2:56:39Speaker 02

  wield power. I think, again, the conduit through which they exert that influence tends to be closer to a lot of those older chivalric orders. Yeah. Like the Order of the Golden Fleece, or the Order of the Garter, or the Order of Malta, or its various incarnations or offshoots. The Order of Templars, that I think has a variety of different expressions today. I think have an inner sort of collusion, or, you know, that goes back to a lot of the mystery cults, the dominant mystery cults of the ancient world.

• 2:57:19Speaker 02

  I think that it's a, it's a big topic, if you want to. But I think it has more, so the way I try to think about it is through epistemology more than anything else. Because it's not so, at the end of the day, what do you do with these, these facts? Like if, if. That's the problem. Yeah, like, that's, that's my battle with myself, is like, I'm always thinking, how much of this is, is useful getting into the weeds? Like, I, I know a number of dominant families, I know a number of powerful institutions, a power of, number of very old orders. But I'm like, what can people really do with this at the end of the day? What I find to be more useful is what I was mentioning since at the beginning of our

• 2:58:01Speaker 02

  discussion about the epistemology fight is like, how does this thing as a species' character behave? How does it think? What method is it using for itself? And what is it promoting for others to be kept in a in the cave, in the shadow, in the

• 2:58:16Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:58:17Speaker 02

  The cave of shadows of Plato's allegory?

• 2:58:18Danny Jones?

  Sure.

• 2:58:19Speaker 02

  And by better understanding, what are the techniques and tricks that it uses for sophistry, making the false appear true, both within the realm of mind, but also within the realm of, here's a magic, here's a rabbit out of my hat?

• 2:58:31Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:58:33Speaker 02

  By getting a better appreciation for false logic, whereas the perversion of reason, then I can also counterpose that to studies of where does reason emerge in a more organic, like, healthy way in people who do walk in harmony with natural law? And what, and shape their identities and choices in life according to that by creating better choices and potentials for the species to be liberated more? What kind of myths do they create that help us better tap into our more human divine qualities that make us more dignified, self-loving, loving of others?

• 2:59:09Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:59:10Speaker 02

  More respectful for and loving of truth? And what type of mythologies are created? Sometimes they're mixed, right? There's a battle over who controls the symbols, who controls the meaning of the symbol, who controls what the all-seeing eye means, who controls what the frigging cat means, right?

• 2:59:23Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:59:24Speaker 02

  There, so there's a battle from, I think,

• 2:59:26Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:59:26Speaker 02

  different perspectives on how do you take stories, symbolic logic, or the symbols that we use for things and either bring about the best or enmesh people ever more into the addiction of the cave?

• 2:59:37Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:59:38Speaker 02

  Where they think that ever more deeply that the the shadow world is the true world, or that the dream state is the real state?

• 2:59:43Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:59:44Speaker 02

  That's how I think about it.

• 2:59:45Danny Jones?

  At some level, too, I feel like all of this Epstein stuff being declassified and all the stuff that we're given access to feels like some sort of a stage game as well. It feels, it feels orchestrated. I know, like, I know, like, from the basic perspective, it looks like it's us fighting to get, like, you have congressmen and senators and the public, the vast majority of the public, really pushing to get this stuff released, these Epstein files. I mean, Trump ran on doing it. And I think any, like, rational human being with a conscience would want these people to be put in prison and not to be in power in the United States.

• 3:00:25Danny Jones?

  But then you you have these like pony these dog and pony shows in front of Congress with people like Pam Bondi saying like, well, the Dow is at 50. Do you not want the Dow to be up where it is right now? Like, she's basically insinuating that this will unravel the economy and Western society if we let this out. But at the same time, they didn't have to release all that stuff. Like, they could have found a way around not releasing that stuff. They did that because they wanted to. And I I don't. With everything else that they get away with, I just don't see if I don't see why. I feel like if they didn't want to release the stuff they did release in regards to the Epstein files, they wouldn't have.

• 3:01:09Danny Jones?

  And they did. And I feel like they have a plan behind that. Like, why would you?

• 3:01:13Speaker 02

  Mind if I ask you what what kind of hypotheses? Because I'm I'm not disagreeing with you.

• 3:01:18Danny Jones?

  I'm just sort of working this out in real time. I don't really have a hypothesis. I just feel like all that stuff that came out, like releasing all of that crazy shit on the public with jerky and cheese pizza and like the pizza gate stuff and human flesh and, you know, profiting off civil wars and the Sierra Leone, the pictures of him, you know, he has the American flag draped over his table using the American flag as a tablecloth. And like, just the emails and the and everything. It's so dark and so evil. And so many people were compromised in it. It's like, what do we do with that as human beings and as American citizens? When, like, what are we supposed to do with it? Especially when you combine that with the fact that

• 3:02:02Danny Jones?

  the government and the FBI has done nothing about it. Like, how does the FBI not investigate this? How do they do nothing about it? I feel like it's.

• 3:02:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:02:10Danny Jones?

  It's it's I think it.

• 3:02:14Danny Jones?

  Maybe it could be a tactic to help or or to make us lose hope.

• 3:02:23Speaker 02

  I I tend to think you're right. I honestly do. I I'm very much in alignment with your your way of thinking on this.

• 3:02:33Speaker 02

  It does seem to have, again, the more you look at what came out with the Epstein files, the stranger and stranger it gets, right? Like, there's emails that bring him directly into the causation of 4chan back in 2012, like, four years before.

• 3:02:51Danny Jones?

  Was it him and Bannon that made 4chan?

• 3:02:54Speaker 02

  No, not Bannon. Was Bannon involved? I don't even know.

• 3:02:56Danny Jones?

  I thought it was Bannon.

• 3:02:57Speaker 02

  Wouldn't be surprised. But there's another guy who comes up in the emails. So you got that, like, again, back when they're still proto, in proto QAnon mode. It wasn't even there yet, but things were starting. So you got this kind of thing already in motion. He's tied to everything, though. And it does seem to have that air of, you know, like, is he dead? Not, I don't think he's dead. I don't, I think that there's a lot of evidence that a character like that doesn't get eliminated.

• 3:03:22Danny Jones?

  No.

• 3:03:24Danny Jones?

  Yeah, and then also, like, to what you just said, we have all the public evidence in front of us to prove that he's not dead. Because the autopsy says he has a prostate, and we have the files, they released files on us that prove that he does have a prostate, because he's talking, or the files, the emails with his doctors, he's talking about, "I don't have a prostate, I need these drugs, these medications to help balance me out, because I don't have a fucking prostate." And then his official autopsy report says that they examined his prostate. So what are they doing with that? Is that, is that just incompetence? It might be. It might just be incompetence.

• 3:03:59Speaker 02

  It seems almost like, I hate saying this, right? Because I don't want to be cynical and shit, but, you know, I got to acknowledge the level of, like, how far we've permitted this game to go on.

• 3:04:11Danny Jones?

  Because you have to, you have to understand that one, this is also true. The FBI and the CIA, they're kind of like the post office at some level. There's diffusion of responsibility. These people, like, the people that are doing this stuff, there's so many employees, and, you know, they're directed to do things, and at some level, I'm sure shit slips through the fucking cracks, and it's not... It's not a well-oiled machine, right?

• 3:04:34Speaker 02

  Well, it is and it isn't, right? Like, it's a highly compartmentalized cybernetic system. So, all these systems are all managed according to cybernetics principles of highly, highly bureaucratized, fragmented systems with only a small nerve center of executives that are granted the ability to see what the whole is doing. But the people who are highly specialized in the departments of the NSA and the sub-departments and the sub-departments, most of them don't know what the other department is doing. They don't know the overarching purpose of anything. It's kind of like the Manhattan Project.

• 3:05:02Danny Jones?

  And they're not incentivized to go kick a beehive because they know they're going to lose their retirement or go to jail.

• 3:05:07Speaker 02

  There's so many things holding you back, yeah. And it feels like I was going to say, but the Obama, you know, birth certificate story, it's again, very similar in a feeling. I'm getting to something of a contrived bit of Kabuki theater designed to get an emotional effect in a target audience that is designed to make this a high priority principle of their internal drama and what they expect in the narratives that they're going to listen to on podcasts, in Congress, and the actual core principles of what is bringing us into these very bad controlled demolitions of our own, of everything that we could otherwise be problem solving. We're not paying proper attention to those things or spending our time actually dealing

• 3:05:52Speaker 02

  with, okay, well, the banks are clearly going to explode. They've been designed to blow up. That's, we used to have an economy, now we have a giant debt-based, hyper-financialized bubble, and it's going to be detonated. What do we do about that very, very provable, objective fact? If you're thinking in a healthy way, you'd be like, okay, well, in the, we have these historic precedents and powers of the Constitution, we've done Glass-Steagall in the past in similar circumstances in the 30s, we broke up the banks, we forced a lot of bankers into jail, we, you know, there are things that practically have precedence that could be organizing principles in battle today, but people are just so pulled into the drama, these like controlled dramas.

• 3:06:35Speaker 02

  And whether it makes them cynical blackpilled, or whether it makes them hyper, hyper naive, whitepilled hopiomatics, you know, who think that Trump is the savior because God will that he turn his head just in that way that he did.

• 3:06:48Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:06:48Speaker 02

  Or it's, you know, it's all a controlled thing. There's no hope, you know, that it both gets the effect of people who don't do anything, who are all like, you know, I don't have, I could just sit back and eat my popcorn. It's all, it's all good. The white hats are in control, or the black hats have, the black hats are controlling everything. And in both cases, you're just sitting back doing nothing with different feelings in your heart.

• 3:07:10Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 3:07:11Speaker 02

  And it seems like, yeah, that type of National Enquirer stuff was needed to sort of acclimate the, the zeitgeist to that type of attitude, especially since the seventies and eighties. Probably a lot of, a lot of drugs and make your own reality philosophies helped kind of detach people from personal responsibility for defending their societies when enemies come to the, come to the gates. Probably didn't help. But yeah, it does seem like there's Kabuki theater abounding.

• 3:07:41Danny Jones?

  And how do the tech companies fit into this? How like the Peter Thiel, Elon Musk, and all these people?

• 3:07:46Speaker 02

  That's Blavatsky. That's, that's.

• 3:07:48Danny Jones?

  Blavatsky?

• 3:07:49Speaker 02

  Well, it's, it's her, it's her, it's the Silicon Valley movement. So you have to look at things like the Valerian Brothers of the early 1900s that sort of created the foundations of what became Silicon Valley as a tech hub, who were part of a theosophical cult.

• 3:08:05Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:08:07Speaker 02

  And the root race idea that, that, you know, the fifth root race will emerge in California and will be able to supplement or transplant the obsolete, earlier Atlantean root races will be, that's part of Blavatsky's cosmology as well. So it'll have to be the, somehow Teutonic, she ties in a bit of Teutonic Arian philosophy into those in California, which she's very clear will give rise to the new humanity. She fuses a lot of Darwinian principles, even though she acts like she's anti-Darwinian, she's actually infusing a lot of might makes right, you know, survival of the fittest philosophies into her cosmology.

• 3:08:47Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 3:08:48Speaker 02

  And at this point, when I look at transhumanism as a philosophy, when I look at the, as like the religion of the Silicon Valley elite.

• 3:08:55Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:08:56Speaker 02

  And its origins, I'm seeing principally philosophical origins. Incubating it, catering it, shaping it generationally.

• 3:09:07Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:09:08Speaker 02

  All the way through the twenties, thirties, forties to the, to the present. So that's sort of the way I'm looking at the Silicon Valley aspects of it.

• 3:09:17Danny Jones?

  At what level do you think, unlike this hierarchy, this hierarchy of, or totem pole of, of powerful people pulling strings are people like Peter Thiel and Elon Musk?

• 3:09:27Speaker 02

  I don't know. I think that their lives have probably been like Truman Show. I think that their lives have been more like, you know, Jim Carrey's character in The Truman Show.

• 3:09:37Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 3:09:38Speaker 02

  Where they probably feel like they've had a life and they don't realize that it's, they were assigned before birth to, or maybe early on in their, in their very young years to play out a certain role, um, according to certain adherence or relationships that their families would have had to older forces.

• 3:09:59Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 3:10:00Speaker 02

  You know, you look at Elon Musk's grandfather, you know, I don't think, uh...

• 3:10:03Danny Jones?

  Yeah, what's the story with him again?

• 3:10:05Speaker 02

  Joshua Haldeman.

• 3:10:06Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:10:07Speaker 02

  Uh, Technocracy Inc. He, he was the president of the Canadian Technocracy Inc. movement, uh, from thirty-six to forty-one.

• 3:10:16Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 3:10:17Speaker 02

  When he got arrested for being on the wrong side of World War II.

• 3:10:19Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 3:10:20Speaker 02

  And before that, he was the head of the Saskatchewan, uh, Fabian Society, then in Canada, it was known as the, the Cooperative Commonwealth Federation. He was a, the political branch of the League, the League for Social Reconstruction.

• 3:10:32Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:10:33Speaker 02

  That was set up in the, in the Great Depression to solve the, to basically create a new order that transcends the elected, the elected systems or the capitalist systems. That didn't work out for him, but he, he was interfacing with five Rhodes Scholars, who founded the Canadian Fabian Society.

• 3:10:49Danny Jones?

  Oh, wow.

• 3:10:50Speaker 02

  I, I go through that in volume two of The Revenge of the Mystery Cults.

• 3:10:53Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 3:10:54Speaker 02

  So that when that didn't work out, he wasn't getting political power. Then he went in and became the head of Technocracy Inc. That called for a technate that's not that different from the golden circle mapping. And a basically surveillance control grid with universal basic income allocated to all of the useless eaters would be replaced by automation. That was part of the technocracy program.

• 3:11:16Danny Jones?

  Who is that? Who was the one who called? Was that Kissinger? The useless eaters quote?

• 3:11:22Speaker 02

  Who's the first person I know?

• 3:11:23Danny Jones?

  I thought it was Kissinger.

• 3:11:25Speaker 02

  Um, I, I think it was, oh, well, the Nazis were using it pretty freely as a concept. Yeah, like the Tiergarten IV doctors have testimonies that were transcribed. At Nuremberg describing the useless eater idea.

• 3:11:40Speaker 02

  They were referring to the, you know, the criminally minded, the, the, the defectives that were given euthanasia and sterilization in the 30s. I mean, Germany started with their own German population before they expanded to other, other groups.

• 3:11:55Speaker 02

  But so that's, that's the earliest example I know of the word, though I'm sure Kissinger bandied about freely in his private conversations.

• 3:12:04Speaker 02

  Yeah. What was he saying? Oh, yeah. Joshua Haldeman. So he ends up after, after heading the social credit party for, of Canada, well Saskatchewan, for six years. He couldn't get power there. The social credit party also is a British occult.

• 3:12:23Speaker 02

  So that was the name, actually. People talk about social credit today. It actually goes back to this. It was a theosophical spinoff group under A.R. Orage, who ran the, the New Wage Magazine from 1906 until the 20s. And Orage was a, a personal assistant to Gurdjieff. He was also the guy who coined the term social credit as a new sort of philosophy for organizing society that was set up by this British general or this British major, C.H. Douglas in 1918.

• 3:12:54Speaker 02

  And yeah, it's basically like an anarcho syndicalist idea of pseudo libertarianism with a top control and mediation of, so you have like local guilds, kind of our local communal regions would then mediate the individual to the top down controllers. It was very, very ephemeral, but he was trying to sell his, market his thing to Hitler. And that's what, there's, there's letters between Douglas and Hitler.

• 3:13:19Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 3:13:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, he's like, your, your system is the best. Uh, it's the most harmonious system to my idea of what the, the world should be.

• 3:13:27Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 3:13:28Speaker 02

  Also called for a form of UBI as well. And so that's what Joshua Haldeman was running. And when he couldn't get political power there, that's when he decided as soon as apartheid was created in South Africa in 49, to then pick up the family, his daughter May, uh, who becomes the mother of Elon and go and move to the freest place in the world, which is South apartheid, South Africa. Hey, I don't know as much about Peter Thiel's background, except that I do know that his German father had very high, was a very powerful individual, tied to certain forces in the uranium industry, but I don't know more than that. That's a lot more shadowy for me. But I, yeah, I presume that there, that there's a bit of a Truman Show thing going on.

• 3:14:14Danny Jones?

  Yeah, it certainly does feel like that. And going back to, um, what we were talking about in the beginning about this whole UFO magic trick.

• 3:14:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:14:24Danny Jones?

  It's, uh, that certainly makes a lot of sense and it plays right into the theme of the Truman Show. Because, um, you know, I don't know, there's so much going on and it's, it's like they're breaking down our idea of reality and like breaking down any hope that we have or any trust that we really have in like the institutions here, not the institutions, but like the, the, the government.

• 3:14:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:14:55Danny Jones?

  Right?

• 3:14:57Danny Jones?

  So, yeah, I don't know, like, like I, I, I know that there's a lot of incompetence, you know, at some level, when it comes to who's running it and all the people that are involved and all the agencies or whatever, but.

• 3:15:11Speaker 02

  There's a method. That's the thing. There does seem to be a method of chaos behind the chaos of using contrarian messaging by design to break down our ability to form judgments, to use discernment. Yeah. And the hot-cold thing, it seems very similar to the sort of structures that you would read from, what's his name, Battlefield of the Mind, the Tavistockian, a lot of the lead Tavistockian psychiatrists that informed how MKUltra would unfold and how they would carry out their conditioning techniques on their human guinea pigs. Yeah, they were all obsessed with how do you induce schizophrenia on the one part. So people like Artie Lange

• 3:15:54Speaker 02

  are really obsessed with creating a science of how do you create schizophrenia to liberate people. Ultimately, his ambition was always to liberate from the hypocrisy and the fallacies of the world that impose certain rigid structures onto us. And that through his mind, he had a formula that I don't fully understand whereby if you could bring somebody to break, to a breaking point, there's a chance now of liberating them from the structures of fallacy and create something new, which has maybe an element of truth. When you're in a crisis, you could come out of it a better person, more self-reflective perhaps. But they're doing it all for a different reason. And so in the Tavistockian psychiatrists,

• 3:16:35Speaker 02

  William Sargent is his name for the Battlefield of the Mind, he writes, you know, how giving people contrary messaging induces them to break down their belief in their own judgment. You know, so they're given orders to burn the village, then they're, or first to save the village, then to burn the village if you're in Vietnam or in Korea. Right. Right. There it is. Yeah, battle, battle for the mind. And they're given, at one day, you're rewarded for doing a thing if you're in a laboratory or in a, you know, and you're rewarded for pressing the red button. But the next day, you're being punished for pressing the red button. Right, you're being shamed for pressing the red button, but you're like, but yesterday you gave me Twinkies as a reward for punching, pressing the red button.

• 3:17:15Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:17:16Speaker 02

  And they're not given reasons why anything is happening. So their ability, their, this, this sort of thing happened a lot in World War I. That's where Tavistock got its form, was just looking at people in shock therapy and all of these guinea pigs coming back, broken men, and discovering that they're also, on top of being more fragmented, they've got survivalist fragments and personalities that they've begun to form, but they're also much more malleable and more suggestible.

• 3:17:37Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:17:38Speaker 02

  They can't, their, their, their reasonable sentinels are, are now broken and gone.

• 3:17:42Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 3:17:43Speaker 02

  So they're much more inclined to be suggestible to whatever. So all of these things were directly informing the CIA's MKUltra program, how it shows to invest in what type of program that Ted Kaczynski came out of in Harvard.

• 3:17:57Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:17:57Speaker 02

  You know, things like that.

• 3:17:59Danny Jones?

  Yeah. So what do you think specifically is going on with all of this hubble up with this, the UFO disclosure stuff? I'll say, one of the biggest red flags for me is that one of the biggest names that is in front of Congress or publicly pushing for this stuff is, um, the dude who was responsible for the fucking Edward Snowden coming out and dropping the NSA stuff.

• 3:18:25Speaker 02

  Really?

• 3:18:25Danny Jones?

  What's that guy's name again?

• 3:18:26Speaker 02

  I didn't.

• 3:18:27Danny Jones?

  We just talked about, we talked about him, uh, on like, the last three or four podcasts.

• 3:18:31Speaker 02

  Like a congressman? Or a senator?

• 3:18:33Danny Jones?

  No, he's like a former general, I think. Um.

• 3:18:37Speaker 02

  Oh, and that was coordinated, you're saying, the Snowden drops. Hmm.

• 3:18:41Danny Jones?

  Oh, Clapper? Clapper, James Clapper.

• 3:18:43Speaker 02

  James Clapper?

• 3:18:43Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 3:18:45Speaker 02

  James Clapper?

• 3:18:46Danny Jones?

  James Clapper is one of the main, main voices behind this, main people pushing this UFO disclosure stuff.

• 3:18:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's a red alarm, man. I didn't know that.

• 3:18:54Danny Jones?

  That's one of the biggest problems for me.

• 3:18:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, also, uh, what's his name? Uh, uh, who are the, the creepy Pizza Gate Brothers? Podesta.

• 3:19:02Danny Jones?

  Oh, my God. Are they also behind it?

• 3:19:05Speaker 02

  John Podesta. He's one of the earliest, loudest advocates. Um, he was, he was brought into the Lawrence Rockefeller operation with Hillary. In the 90s, and yeah, he's on record since the late 90s, he started going public very, very intently and loudly on the need for UFO disclosure. So yeah, he's definitely on the inside. I don't know, did Epstein have anything to say about this topic or not really?

• 3:19:31Danny Jones?

  He was definitely interested in it. I know he talked to a lot of people about it. I've had people on the show who have done like FaceTime or Skype conversations with him where they just said that he would sit there and ask them questions about it forever and never had anything interesting to say about it. He would just ask them to tell him stories and stuff.

• 3:19:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, he seems to have his fingers in every pot.

• 3:19:48Danny Jones?

  He was super, he was definitely interested in like, like free energy and stuff like that. He was talking to physicists. He, I mean, the, his ranch was really close to.

• 3:19:59Speaker 02

  The Zorro Ranch?

• 3:20:00Danny Jones?

  The Zorro Ranch was really close to Los Alamos, I think. Is that right? Am I making that up? But there was one of those big, one of those big military industrial complex. Yeah, one of those labs was there really close to where he was. And he was certainly interested in all that stuff. He was inviting those types of physicists out there and, and.

• 3:20:21Danny Jones?

  You know, it's certainly true that there is programs, black budget programs that are researching this stuff. We have enough people that have come out and talked about it and from physicists to researchers to whistleblowers. Former military people. So it's like.

• 3:20:39Danny Jones?

  They can't all be fucking lying.

• 3:20:41Speaker 02

  Well, so one thing I suspect, and again, for people who are watching this and want to scratch on this even more.

• 3:20:51Speaker 02

  The four, so the four episodes of The Hidden Hand Behind UFOs, episode three goes through. It incorporates the secret science program. Under, well, that was Manhattan Project, but after World War II and how Manhattan Project took on different rebrandings and continued on in a much more virulent way after World War II.

• 3:21:12Danny Jones?

  Now it's the Department of Energy, right? It's the same thing.

• 3:21:14Speaker 02

  That's one aspect of it. But I think, I think MKUltra was one aspect of it. Like the mind war operate, like, so there's different, the secret science program is pervasive.

• 3:21:22Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:21:23Speaker 02

  It wasn't just. German-made flying saucers, which was a small part of it. There's other aspects.

• 3:21:28Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 3:21:29Speaker 02

  Drone technology, I think, developed out of a lot of the illegal, you know, the forbidden science, the forbidden aeronautic science that we're not allowed to think about. I think Berkland currents as well, like Christian Berkland, who developed the foundations for the entire, like, electric universe approach to physics. His, his work is pioneering over a century ago. Like, he's the guy who discovered the cause of aurora borealis and

• 3:21:56Danny Jones?

  Oh, wow.

• 3:21:57Speaker 02

  and the plasma foundations of the entire universe. So he was also killed, by the way, as he was exposing false spirit mediums in Denmark.

• 3:22:06Danny Jones?

  Tends to happen with those folks.

• 3:22:08Speaker 02

  Yeah. He, yeah, that's part of my book too, chapter 12. All that to say, there's definitely a lot of this going on. The energy front, it's, it's no, no different. But what I suspect they're, they're also doing, when I look at the narrative seeding of how they've been framing the new tech that we should expect to be seeing more in the public civilian sector. Because I think they're going to be releasing a certain amount of tech that has otherwise been kept in the, in the back burner.

• 3:22:33Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:22:33Speaker 02

  Outside of our view. Because they have to destroy Russia and China. And there's, there's certain countries that are not going along with the plan the way they were supposed to some decades ago, and they have to be. A new strategy has been brought online over the past six, seven years especially, since it's become clear that not everyone is willing to just stay in the same house under the controlled demolition for the, the new phoenix to emerge where everybody's going to be under the same control. So because they have to do a more sophisticated, longer-term straddle to strategy to battle, especially China, they're going to have to release things they would have probably have preferred be kept in the basement. And what they've been doing in their, in their narrative seeding has been to plant the concepts that JFK was

• 3:23:20Speaker 02

  Was killed because he naively wanted to reveal Area 51 and the Eisenhower collusion with the with the ETs. And that's why he unfortunately had to be killed because, you know, it was national security Cold War would have put us at risk.

• 3:23:33Danny Jones?

  This is what the Jesuits like to say. They say that he was looking into UFOs.

• 3:23:37Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah, I think that that was a convenient, an enormous amount of the players who carried out his kill and his cover up come into the UFO disclosure operation. And I go through a number of them in episode.

• 3:23:49Danny Jones?

  Yeah, the guy for, yeah, one of the guys that was a part of Peter Lavenda was telling us about this. One of the guys who started the actual real X-Files, Bannister, Guy Bannister.

• 3:24:03Danny Jones?

  He was one of the FBI agents that was really close to Oswald.

• 3:24:07Speaker 02

  Was he actually starting the UFO files? Like?

• 3:24:08Danny Jones?

  Like, I believe Guy Bannister, Google it. Guy Bannister X-Files. I believe he actually started the, he was the head of the X-Files when it really.

• 3:24:16Speaker 02

  Well, yeah.

• 3:24:17Danny Jones?

  Started, like the real X-Files, not the show.

• 3:24:20Speaker 02

  Interesting.

• 3:24:21Danny Jones?

  So Google it. I might be completely wrong right now. I might be making all of this up. Just type in Guy Bannister X-Files and tell me what comes up.

• 3:24:29Speaker 02

  Well, he definitely plays a big role. Yeah, with David Ferry and Clay Shaw. Also, you got these wandering bishops as well, who are part of the Gnostic Orthodox Church. So you have these, this offshoot of the, well, you got two different, you got the, the, the Elephhas Levy operation inside of the Catholic skin suit, inside of the, the Western Catholic Church. And then you've got this spinoff from the Russian side that came in in 1920s by the white Russians, who also come into play in the murder of JFK story quite a bit. And a lot of followers from both, or priests and bishops from both schools are working together on site in Dallas, Texas, of which David Ferry is one of a plethora of these characters.

• 3:25:10Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:25:11Speaker 02

  And some of them, yeah, they do play a role. Alan Dulles was overseeing the UFO SIOP going back to 1951, when he was working with Carl Jung. Carl Jung was an OSS operative in World War II and continued to be his advisor long after World War II was over. And Carl Jung was even commissioned to writing a book on flying saucers, a thing seen in the sky, basically as a guidebook for social engineers to manage new myths, new legends.

• 3:25:35Danny Jones?

  Right, right.

• 3:25:36Speaker 02

  That's a very good book to read if you want to like, just get into that mind frame of somebody who's going to be responsible for the, for the management of new myths and new sacred stories that are, that explain deep history. And the symbolic meaning that the UFO circle has, and he goes into a lot of archetypical analysis, that's pretty useful, but he's advising Dulles. It's not like he's just a philosopher. He's like advising fucking Dulles.

• 3:25:55Danny Jones?

  That's crazy.

• 3:25:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, and Dulles is like at work positioning, you know, his guys who all get fired by JFK, by the way, right? So Charles Cabell, who launches Project Blue Book, under the, the, the influence of, uh, what's his name? Uh, Tizzard, Sir, Sir Henry Tizzard, who sets up the Manhattan Project, the British head of, like, the director of the British Empire's science programs, is Tizzard, who's also setting up the, the, the Flying Saucer Working Party in England in 1950, and he then sets the stage for Project Blue Book to get underway, but that Charles Cabell also fired by, by JFK in sixty, sixty-one? Uh, what's his name? Richard Bissell, who's the head of the office.

• 3:26:39Danny Jones?

  Richard Bissell, yeah.

• 3:26:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:26:40Danny Jones?

  Area fifty-one.

• 3:26:41Speaker 02

  Area fifty-one, but he's also the head of the Office of Policy Coordination, which is the Psychological Warfare Bureau of the CIA. Um, he's also getting fired by JFK. He's also overseeing, how do you care, like, he's the assassinations expert, you know, with Sidney Gottlieb from MKUltra, working to figure out how do you overthrow Castro and get in, get back control so that the, the Lansky crime syndicates can be reinstalled back into play.

• 3:27:03Danny Jones?

  Yep.

• 3:27:04Speaker 02

  Um, also, you know, the present, foreign leaders abroad are being targeted by this apparatus, and they, I think they turned on JFK, and JFK knew what he was saying when he said he was gonna break the CIA into a thousand pieces and scattered into the winds. I, I don't think he was playing.

• 3:27:19Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:27:20Speaker 02

  Though I think he was maybe naive about what he was dealing with, and maybe he thought because he was a war, you know, he had a warrior's background in, in World War II, he maybe thought he had more, uh, support from the military.

• 3:27:32Danny Jones?

  Type in, what is his connection to UFOs?

• 3:27:37Danny Jones?

  Guy Bannister UFO connection?

• 3:27:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, that'd be interesting.

• 3:27:44Danny Jones?

  Okay, I made it up.

• 3:27:45Speaker 02

  The Maori Island, oh, no, no, but you got the Maori Island incident there.

• 3:27:47Danny Jones?

  Uh, the Maori Island incident in 1947, Bannister was an FBI special agent in charge.

• 3:27:52Speaker 02

  That's it.

• 3:27:54Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 3:27:54Speaker 02

  I'm actually gonna follow, I might incorporate that into my next movie.

• 3:27:57Danny Jones?

  He was involved in the initial investigation of the bizarre UFO sighting over Maori Island in Washington State, uh, which involved claims of falling metal slag, that's what it was.

• 3:28:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 3:28:10Danny Jones?

  The Men in Black, okay, this is the other part, The Men in Black and JFK, theorists connected, and this was Levenda who told me this, theorists connect Bannister to Fred Christman, a figure from the Maori Island incident, years later, Christman and Lee Harvey Oswald both had documented ties to Bannister's anti-Castro operation.

• 3:28:28Speaker 02

  Hmm, hmm, hmm, hmm, interesting.

• 3:28:31Danny Jones?

  Yeah, that was crazy.

• 3:28:32Speaker 02

  That is 544 Camp Street office in New Orleans, okay, that's the one, okay. So, yeah, that's a lot to work with.

• 3:28:37Danny Jones?

  Um, yeah.

• 3:28:39Speaker 02

  I go through a pretty big list of other, other players, C D Scott, uh, C B Scott Jones, as well as another player who is a big, big disclosure, UFO disclosure operative going back to the 80s, 90s, tying very closely to Hal Puthoff and many others, but he was also in charge of eliminating the, uh, the, the footage of, what was it called, um, the footage of, oh, there's a name for it, um, that proved JFK was shot from the front.

• 3:29:10Danny Jones?

  It was a Bruder film.

• 3:29:11Speaker 02

  It was a Bruder film, yeah, so he's the guy who worked as the editor in chief of Time Life, bought the Bruder frame and then buried it in a, in a vault in Time Life headquarters for five years, where nobody was supposed to know about it until, um, Garrison, um, William, not William Garrison, uh, the district attorney of New Orleans, uh, who carried, what was his name, Garrett, Gary, who, Kevin Costner played.

• 3:29:40Danny Jones?

  I know who you're talking about.

• 3:29:41Speaker 02

  No, I'm talking about, okay, thank you. So it was only when he got subpoena powers and created the first jury trial to investigate the assassination of JFK in 66, that he got the power to go in and even discover that this thing exists and, and made it public for the first time, it was never supposed to be public.

• 3:29:57Danny Jones?

  Man, I don't remember, like, my fucking memory is so shot lately, but I remember, uh, we had, uh, Scott Horton in here the other day, and he was telling us, me, something crazy about the Zabrueder guy.

• 3:30:07Speaker 02

  Zabrueder guy's kinda shady too, eh?

• 3:30:09Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I can't remember what he said, but I remember it blew my mind. I gotta go back and watch it.

• 3:30:12Speaker 02

  It's funny, cause I'm getting deja vu. I also am shocked by this guy's story. It wasn't good, yeah, I don't know.

• 3:30:19Danny Jones?

  But, I mean, if we have this technology, it's like, and if you can believe those military navy pilots who were saying they were seeing this crazy stuff.

• 3:30:26Speaker 02

  Right. That was my point. Right. So my, my core point was what I see is the narrative seeding is that they're trying to get across this new narrative that,

• 3:30:37Speaker 02

  the, the tech we reverse engineered from the flying saucers that crashed at Roswell and other things should be either public, or they're trying to make a whole debate now around, first, just acknowledging what I think is, is something which has a lot of fallacy embedded within it, which is that a lot of the tech that we're gonna start seeing comes from craft that we, yeah, reverse engineered, that the aliens gave us, gave us the right to, to keep as long as we let them anally probe occasional people and.

• 3:31:04Danny Jones?

  Yeah, we made a deal. Yeah, we made a deal with Eisenhower to let, let them anally probe a few people.

• 3:31:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, and then Majestic 12 is supposed to prove that, but it's like, yeah, but Majestic 12 is provably also a forgery. It's not real. Provable so. Like, the tep writer that was used to make the Majestic 12 documents was produced in the 1960s, not in the 1940s.

• 3:31:22Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 3:31:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. The, the signature of Harry Truman. So whenever Harry Truman signs his name on the, on a number of the, the Majestic 12 documents, it's the same signature to the, to a degree of perfection that is impossible, cause no two signatures, like, I do my signature a thousand times, not a single one will be a hundred percent the same as the previous one.

• 3:31:41Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:31:42Speaker 02

  The Truman signatures are like a copy paste from almost like a Photoshop or whatever. Only forgers do that. So this is something that was like inserted into William Moore's world in 1984. You know, Jamie Shandere was, was brought into it as a promoter. But it was done to just add more coloring to the sacred narrative that was being revived in the 70s under the National Enquirer. That was the first institution to replicate the Roswell newspaper that covered the flying saucer story in 47.

• 3:32:15Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:32:16Speaker 02

  And again, it was then replicated in its full under the National Enquirer while Jalen Heinecke was overseeing the Blue Ribbon Committee on UFO phenomena, also with NICEP, which was again, NICAP, the National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomenon, was also staffed, founded by the CIA, staffed by CIA officials from Hillen Coder to William Bryan III, who was also from the Office of Policy Coordination. There's so many. And they're openly putting out reports, both Rand as well as the CIA, talking about the use of the belief in aerial of UFOs for psychological warfare purposes. They're talking about it in their, in declassified reports that we can all read.

• 3:33:00Danny Jones?

  The belief in UFOs for psychological warfare purposes.

• 3:33:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's, what's his name? I cite him in episode three in his quote of the hidden hand behind UFOs, the third director of the CIA, Bedell Smith. Bedell Smith is giving direct memos to CIA operatives, talking about the value of these objects for psychological warfare purposes.

• 3:33:25Danny Jones?

  That's fucking crazy.

• 3:33:28Speaker 02

  People are seeing something, right? Like, that's the thing with the UFOs, people are looking out of their windows after World War II, especially near test, you know, airfields.

• 3:33:38Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:33:39Speaker 02

  And they are seeing stuff they can't explain. And Air Force pilots who don't have security clearance are, to know what they're looking at, are seeing things, certainly flying about, that defy laws of what they believe to be, you know, aeronautic physics. And they report it to their superior officers or people report it to the cops or whatever, what they see, but they don't know what they see. And so who's going to interpret what, who's going to tell them what they're seeing? Who's going to give them that information when material is being tested from, let's say, German, Pele Munda, you know?

• 3:34:11Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:34:11Speaker 02

  Scientists or Italian scientists who are doing this kind of pioneering work that we know exists on flying saucer technology that is being absorbed into the secret science program. Well, a story is going to be given to them.

• 3:34:21Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 3:34:23Danny Jones?

  Yeah, the Benowitz story is pretty crazy.

• 3:34:25Speaker 02

  That's a sad one. That's super heartbreaking.

• 3:34:27Danny Jones?

  I mean, it gives you a blueprint of how they do things and you can map that. You could see that pattern and all over the place.

• 3:34:33Speaker 02

  Well, and the fact that you have like the key figures who played the role in brainwashing Benowitz, like William Moore and Doty are also involved with Majestic 12, just a few years later, which just adds, they take a lot of what Benowitz is reported to have said or discovered from his gifted magical computer that's decrypting all of the signals that he's in cap, he's capturing.

• 3:34:55Speaker 02

  So, but I mean, who's controlling the, the program, the software that is, that he's using, he's depended on, that's helping him decrypt these signals, that's convincing him that, okay, uh, these, these aliens are about to break the treaty.

• 3:35:11Speaker 02

  They're about to go to war and exterminate us. Drives the poor guy crazy.

• 3:35:14Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:35:14Speaker 02

  And they, but they use his, the stories that he's, because he's a famous guy in the MUFON groups and the-

• 3:35:20Danny Jones?

  They knew the Soviets had penetrated MUFON and that he would be a conduit of disinfo to poison the well and MUFON. So the Soviets, they would throw the Soviets off the trail of it being like secret technology.

• 3:35:30Speaker 02

  It's probably an element of it, yeah. But then, so then these guys are also inserting them, the same players, and then inserting the MJ 12 thing and, and building more, again, deep, it's like a space opera. You've just got infinite chapters to this infinite novella.

• 3:35:41Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:35:42Speaker 02

  Of, how many, was it one crash or four crashes or 18 crashes? Or the CIA recently said it's been like, nine crashes since 2002 alone is what they publicly say. Is it, is it one species of grays or is it just the Venusians, super beings from like Lucifer, I mean Venus, you know? Or is it maybe, you know, 18 species or 98 species and are some of them, like are some of them shape shifting lizards? And it's, you can go anywhere with this. It's, it's a perfect Gnostic opera of just-

• 3:36:10Danny Jones?

  Are you familiar with James Fox's documentary about the, or the, the Brazil crash?

• 3:36:18Speaker 02

  No.

• 3:36:18Danny Jones?

  Varginha, Brazil?

• 3:36:20Speaker 02

  No.

• 3:36:20Danny Jones?

  It's one of the, uh, his, his movie is called Moment of Contact. And it happened in 1994 in a town called Varginha in Brazil. And James Fox is an independent filmmaker, um, who went out and he was aware of this case and he always wrote it off because he thought it was like a crazy National Enquirer, you know, fake shit. And then someone convinced him to finally go down to Brazil. He would travel down there with him, uh, just himself and his, uh, filmmaker partner. And they started interviewing like locals about it because there's like this lore in that town, right? Uh, of this thing happening. It's kind of like, there's like, uh, a flying saucer monument there about this like famous crash that happened allegedly and a being was seen.

• 3:37:01Danny Jones?

  And he went around and he started interviewing people, um, that were close to it that day or knew people who were around it that day. And he started getting closer and closer and closer to people that were actually eyewitnesses that day. And he interviewed probably two dozen people who were like directly, uh, involved or witnessed this event happen. Some of them which just saw the thing fucking crash. And a handful of them, including a surgeon at a hospital in Virginia who saw this being. And there was two little girls who were walking home from school through a field and they saw this being that was crouching in a field,

• 3:37:41Danny Jones?

  like next to a wall that was like dark brown skin, bright red eyes and telepathically communicating to them. This is what they drew it, this is what they thought it looked like.

• 3:37:51Speaker 02

  So do you think it's like a abused child from an MKUltra kind of program or something like that?

• 3:37:55Danny Jones?

  And, uh, well, basically what happened was these two cops, uh, saw one of them like limping across the road. One of the cops grabbed it and put it in the back of the car and brought it to a, um, a hospital. And that cop died two days later with some crazy rare bacterial infection that like took over his body and shut down his immune system. And there were surgeons and people in the hospital witnessed testimony that James went and interviewed. And they said, yeah, the hospital smelled like sulfur for three weeks after that.

• 3:38:26Speaker 02

  Why?

• 3:38:26Danny Jones?

  They said they, because the being smelled like sulfur. And it had cloven feet and it was like a biblical description of a demon. And, uh,

• 3:38:36Danny Jones?

  It's fucking crazy, dude.

• 3:38:38Speaker 02

  I will guarantee I will watch this movie.

• 3:38:41Danny Jones?

  There's a second part where he interviewed the surgeon who was in the room with the thing by itself. And he describes.

• 3:38:50Danny Jones?

  He describes the feeling of being with this thing. He said it was like looking at him and it was like communicating feelings with him. Not words, but feelings like, like impregnating his mind with feelings of like love. And. Calm. And peacefulness. That's it. And he said he felt like this thing was its own child. And the dude was like, but like bursting out in tears as he was describing it to James, sitting in this like hotel lobby in Virginia Brazil. And, uh, and then these people busted in and took the thing, took the thing out and never saw it again. He has never talked about it publicly until now.

• 3:39:28Speaker 02

  I thank you for sharing with me that I have written it down and I'm gonna watch it maybe even tonight if I can find it and.

• 3:39:34Danny Jones?

  Oh, yeah.

• 3:39:35Speaker 02

  I can't speak to it because I haven't looked into it.

• 3:39:38Danny Jones?

  It's very interesting because it's a, it's one of those stories that you're just relying on. Random people who live in a town who have really nothing to gain, but a lot of the people he interviewed, they refused to like be public, like one family. Agreed to do the interview, but they only filmed the back of their heads.

• 3:39:55Danny Jones?

  And these are like, you know, like. Old local folks who, who are like, have no incentive to do this whatsoever, not tied to any fucking organizations, no government, nothing like that. And, um. Yeah, it's those kind of stories that.

• 3:40:13Danny Jones?

  Really. Make me think, right? And it doesn't stink to high heaven, like when you have people like James Clapper. In front of Congress doing this whole dog and pony show.

• 3:40:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:40:24Danny Jones?

  I think there has to be more to those types of things. I think, I think the reality of this whole thing is way stranger.

• 3:40:31Danny Jones?

  Then the UFO files make it out to be.

• 3:40:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, man. Look, what I can definitely say is I'm typically operating on the assumption that things are, that things that we're exploring are explainable by, without recourse to ETs and supernatural phenomenon in general. So that is one of my core assumptions. I could be wrong, right?

• 3:40:59Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:41:00Speaker 02

  So far, just like Kudini, every time I tend to scratch at something.

• 3:41:03Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:41:04Speaker 02

  That appears to be one thing, and often anecdotal testimonials tends to be something that is often used by the tricksters. I'm not saying this is the case, it's just been a tendency.

• 3:41:13Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:41:14Speaker 02

  To use anecdotes where people have apparent conviction, sometimes they do, about having experienced a thought or an observation even. There's often the evidence of tricksters and cult leaders or whatever that seem to be always showing up onto the stage of my research.

• 3:41:32Danny Jones?

  Yeah. I don't think you'll find any of that in this story.

• 3:41:35Speaker 02

  I'll check it out. I'll give you some feedback.

• 3:41:36Danny Jones?

  There was one guy, he interviewed, who was one of the other cops that was there when the one dude grabbed the being, the guy who was driving the car. He found out where the guy lived, and he showed up to his house, and the guy like literally pulled his gun out and like threatening to shoot them if they didn't get off his property.

• 3:41:50Speaker 02

  A lot of conviction, man.

• 3:41:51Danny Jones?

  Not want to talk about anything.

• 3:41:52Speaker 02

  Well...

• 3:41:53Danny Jones?

  It's wild shit, dude.

• 3:41:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, it's a challenge, eh, to differentiate the Kabuki Theater from the legit authenticity of it all.

• 3:42:00Danny Jones?

  It is.

• 3:42:01Speaker 02

  So...

• 3:42:02Danny Jones?

  Well, thank you for doing this, bro. This has been a fun four-hour fucking podcast.

• 3:42:05Speaker 02

  Four hours? Oh my god. Alright, yeah, this was a blast.

• 3:42:09Danny Jones?

  Tell people how they can find more of your work, your Substack, your films, all that stuff.

• 3:42:13Speaker 02

  Sure, yeah. I guess the easiest way to find my stuff is on Substack, MatthewErit.substack.com. CanadianPatriot.org is probably the easiest way to find our movies, our books. I say "our" because I do this with my wife, Cynthia Chung, and we're about to produce or release our newest film, actually. I'll just plug that here, if you don't mind.

• 3:42:35Danny Jones?

  Yeah, do it.

• 3:42:36Speaker 02

  Sweet. So on Saturday, we're gonna drop Black Sun Rising: Esoteric Nazism, Past and Present. Just to go into, we're sort of intervening a little bit on the rehabilitation of Hitler and Hitlerism and whatever fascism was that I could see kind of people, especially on the conservative side, but also on the, on the other side, being kind of nudged towards different flavors of the thing that emerged in the twenties, following certain doctrines of, of Germanicized, uh, theosophical doctrines. So we go through a lot of these elements in the, the film and an accompanying book we're also releasing as a 200-page special report that's now available. Um, same title.

• 3:43:17Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:43:18Speaker 02

  Also goes into the, the theosophical roots of the Nazi UFO cults that, uh, all kind of sprang out in 1947. So that, that's going to be soon and then for our more cultural, educational stuff, I'll just end it with the risingtidefoundation.net is our slightly more, um, yeah, just educational stuff, a little bit more focused on just breathing a little bit, taking a step back from the, the weirdness and just looking at beauty and where does it express itself and a little bit more, uh, yeah, tameness.

• 3:43:50Danny Jones?

  Hmm. Fantastic, man. Well, we'll have to do this again. There's a lot of shit we didn't cover that we could definitely cover.

• 3:43:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, a lot of, a lot of threads to be pulled.

• 3:43:57Danny Jones?

  Yeah, man. Well, thanks again. I really enjoyed it and we'll link everything below.

• 3:44:00Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 3:44:01Danny Jones?

  Good night, world.