A Sox-Yanks Nail-Biter, Intriguing NBA Story Lines, and Five Biggest Fantasy Football Story Lines With Bill’s Dad, Michael Pina, and Craig Horlbeck

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons and his dad react to the Red Sox taking Game 1 in the wild-card round against the Yankees (3:46). Then, Michael Pina joins to talk about the five things to monitor before the NBA season starts (28:13). Finally, Craig Horlbeck joins to recap his NFL experience in Ireland before discussing the top five fantasy football stories (01:08:43). Host: Bill Simmons Guests: Bill’s dad, Michael Pina, and Craig Horlbeck Producers: Chia Hao Tat and Eduardo Ocampo Chad Powers - New Episodes on Tuesdays on Hulu The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit⁠⁠ www.rg-help.com⁠⁠ to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Bill Simmons?

  This episode is brought to you by Carhartt. We spend a lot of time talking about football, the players, the coaches, the big plays, but there's a whole other team we rarely think about, the people who make the game possible, the workers building stadiums, paving parking lots, growing the grass, welding the goalposts, even making the footballs. They're committed to their craft and they're doing the work long before kickoff. Carhartt is proud to outfit those crews. So next time you're watching a game, take a second to appreciate the people behind it. Learn more at carhartt.com/jointhetrades. The Bill Simmons Podcast is brought to you by FanDuel Sportsbook. We're also brought to you by The Ringer Podcast Network, where I put up a new Rewatchables last night. It is Robert Redford Month on the Rewatchables and we did the sting.

• 0:42Bill Simmons?

  It was me and Sean Fantasy and Chris Ryan. So you can check that out. You can watch it on YouTube. You can watch it as a video podcast on Spotify. You can get it wherever you get your podcasts. We're also recapping every episode of Task on the Prestige TV Podcast on Sunday nights. And episode five is a hold on to your seats episode. So that's coming on Sunday. The next episode of Robert Redford Month, just so you have it now, you have a bunch of days to watch it. Jeremiah Johnson. It's, it's, it came out a long time ago. It is an incredible, incredible, incredible movie, big movie in my family. And, and it's, you can find it. It's on some of the streaming services, including Tubi, Tubi.

• 1:26Bill Simmons?

  I don't know why I promote them because they don't listen to us. They don't put movies on that, that we, we, we want them to put on, but you can watch movies for free on there. So Jeremiah Johnson is over there. Coming up on this podcast, Red Sox Yankees had to lead with that at the top because the Red Sox won an incredible game at Yankee Stadium. So I called my dad. We talked about it as we head into Tuesday night here. Who knows? Maybe that will be the only playoff game the Red Sox win. But we talked about a crazy game, bizarre season and what it's like to beat the Yankees in Yankee Stadium. So if you want to skip that, that's about, I don't know, 22, 23 minutes. You can go right to the rest of the podcast, which is Michael Pina talking about five

• 2:09Bill Simmons?

  NBA preseason storylines that he's watching over the next three weeks. And then I had Craig Corlbeck on to talk about what it's like to go to an Ireland NFL game. And then we did a Basically assessing fantasy, top five biggest fantasy football storylines after, after four weeks, including Tyreek Hill, who tragically is out for the year. And then we talked a little Steelers, Ravens, NFL, NFC, AFC North as well. Can't speak, still speechless from that Red Sox game. Anyway, that is all coming up next. We're going to take a break. We're going to go Pearl Jam and then my dad talking Red Sox Yankees next. It's the Bill Simmons Podcast presented by FanDuel and the NFL is back and thank God. FanDuel has everything. They got an awesome app.

• 2:53Bill Simmons?

  They have SGPs. They have great futures. They have good prop bets, live betting, your way bets, clean app. It's great to use. Been using it for a few years. Every time I go back to Boston or any place that has FanDuel and I get to use it, I'm always excited. I'm on an airplane runway. You done the airplane runway?

• 3:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:12Bill Simmons?

  Airplane runway.

• 3:14Speaker 01

  There should be a button, the runway.

• 3:16Bill Simmons?

  I'm on the airplane runway. I gotta get this in. Get your bets in, build something bold, make every game feel bigger. Download the FanDuel app or head to FanDuel.com/BS to get started. The Ringer committed to responsible gaming. Please visit RG-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available and listen to the end of this episode for additional details. You must be 21 plus and present in select states or 18 plus and present in DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Game problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit RG-help.com. Call 1-887-897-777 or visit ccpg.org/chat in Connecticut. Paid endorsement.

• 4:17Bill Simmons?

  All right, recording the top of the podcast, 6:30 Pacific time. Just watched the Red Sox beat the Yankees, game one of a best two out of three series. This Red Sox team.

• 4:28Bill Simmons?

  Cassis gets hurt in the first month. They trade Devers. They lose Meyer. They lose Roman Anthony, who's the best guy on the team. They lose Cutter Crawford. They lose Giolito right before the playoffs.

• 4:41Speaker 02

  They lose Hawk.

• 4:42Bill Simmons?

  They lose Hawk. There's guys in the lineup that I'm getting texts from friends like, do you realize it's the playoffs? What is this lineup? And somehow they win in Yankee Stadium. What was your favorite part about the game?

• 4:56Speaker 02

  Well, you and I texted at the beginning of the game. We looked at the two lineups and said, look at our lineup. Who's playing?

• 5:05Bill Simmons?

  Romy Gonzalez batting fourth.

• 5:07Speaker 02

  So good. So good. Was in the minors two weeks, two weeks ago. Had the critical play of the game.

• 5:15Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, he really did.

• 5:16Speaker 02

  He really did. It was a great baseball game. I'm not just saying that because the Red Sox won, but you're on the edge of your seat the entire nine innings. I'm sweating. I have the air conditioning on.

• 5:28Bill Simmons?

  We haven't had a lot of these in the last like six, seven years. And especially like with the way this Red Sox team is built. This was, I know every playoff game's a must win, but this was actually a must win because I don't think they were winning two in a row without Crochet. And then they're using a Chapman card too on top of it.

• 5:46Speaker 02

  Not just that, our third starter is out with a sore elbow. We're gonna, if we have a, well, we would definitely, we'll have a game tomorrow.

• 5:55Bill Simmons?

  It's gonna be the rookie, right? It's gonna be a guy that we didn't even know who it was a month ago.

• 5:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, it'd be Connolly early, I guess. It'd be nice if they wrapped, you know, Bell, Bell, who's pitching tomorrow, pitches very well in Yankee Stadium. But that ninth inning, when Chapman seemed to not have it.

• 6:12Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 6:13Speaker 02

  He's only once this year come in at the bottom of the eighth and then pitched the ninth. And it seemed to upset him a little bit in terms of his sequence.

• 6:23Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, there's no question.

• 6:24Speaker 02

  And his fastball to start the ninth inning, even the announcer was saying 94, 95. And all of a sudden, the bases are loaded and the fastball hits 100, 101, 100, 101.

• 6:38Speaker 02

  Terrific stuff.

• 6:39Bill Simmons?

  Well, it's funny, like the older you get with baseball with the baggage, you know, that going into the eighth inning Yankee Stadium, not the same circumstances, obviously, but with a pitcher who's Pedro wasn't awesome in 2003, but just eighth inning Yankee Stadium. I'm already nervous. How far can we push our starting pitcher? I started getting like PTSD to the Boone game, but then Chapman coming in the eighth was so unusual. They, they really tried not to do that at all this year. And he comes in, he's in a lather. He's all sweaty. This time he wasn't. And then a long break and then he comes back out and he threw 95 with his first pitch. And I was like, oh my God, this is going to be a disaster.

• 7:19Speaker 02

  It was like maybe four, three or four pitches. All of a sudden this three hits in a row and the bases are loaded. And I'm thinking, oh boy, I've seen this before. But I watched Chapman all year. He had a terrific year.

• 7:35Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, he was awesome.

• 7:36Speaker 02

  And I, you know, I guess the wisdom of bringing him in for one batter to close the eighth kind of made sense, but maybe you leave, I know Crochet had 117 pitches.

• 7:48Bill Simmons?

  He was done. That was a career high. Yeah. I think they had to pull him. The problem is if you play the Whitlock card in this game and then you, you need them, they need to win two or three. Whitlock's their best reliever by far, other than Chapman.

• 8:01Speaker 02

  I don't think that was only it. I don't think they wanted lefties to come up to bat with that short porch in right field.

• 8:08Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. They want to keep Ben Rice on the bench. They wanted to keep Chisholm, Chisholm on there. But yeah, the, it had all the makings of just one of the most awful losses, which they've had a lot of this year, but they've also had a lot of goofy wins too. I was saying the other day on the pod, it's, it's a really, really lovable, goofy, frustrating, but kind of fun Red Sox team. You saw today like Sogard makes the, the key play of the game, like digging in and getting to second base on that double. I didn't, it wasn't, I'm watching and I didn't even realize that he was going to try to do that.

• 8:42Speaker 02

  Well, the insurance front in the top of the ninth was.

• 8:47Bill Simmons?

  From Bregman, who looked like luggage in the other three at bats.

• 8:50Speaker 02

  Well, and he's been sick. Story's been sick. Bregman, you probably read, didn't even take the team plane to go to New York. He was sick. They didn't want him getting other people sick. So they weren't even sure. They weren't sure he was going to play today. And he looked, he looked like luggage and then big hit. I mean.

• 9:07Bill Simmons?

  Well, he also hasn't, he was awesome the first few weeks of the season. Got hurt. He hasn't really looked the same since he came back. I don't think.

• 9:16Speaker 02

  No, I don't think so.

• 9:17Bill Simmons?

  The stats back it up too.

• 9:19Speaker 02

  It was a leg injury, if I recall, and it just seems like he doesn't have the strength in that leg. But that's such a key hit. But one ironic part, two stolen bases, key in this game. Story's stolen base as well. We love stolen bases against the Yankees, don't we?

• 9:38Bill Simmons?

  Right. Well, the other thing, I mean, we got to talk about Crochet because he was the story of the game. This is, you know, we disagreed with a lot of the Red Sox moves. They've made some really strange ones over the last, really the Mookie trade, but even some other stuff, even trading away Sale, basically paying to get rid of him. And of course he's good right, right away and just, uh, these moves that we haven't really loved. And yet the crochet trade is one of the best trades I think of my lifetime for the, for the Red Sox, at least so far.

• 10:09Speaker 02

  I think so. And I don't know if you do the same thing as me. I always look in the White Sox box score to see how Teal is doing.

• 10:16Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 10:17Speaker 02

  And the other guy, Medrath, and the pitcher, they Gonzalez, they pit, they traded in there. And, uh, you know, you have to give away something to get something. And we gave away some future talent to get a possible Cy Young award winner.

• 10:34Bill Simmons?

  Who's been even better than I think they thought. I mean, he threw over 200 innings. He was today, what he looked like today, it feels like he's done that 10 to 12 times this year where he's just been kaput dumb. And I think, what did he have, like 15 in a row at one point, 16 in a row?

• 10:49Speaker 02

  Yeah. I wish he could pitch tomorrow.

• 10:54Bill Simmons?

  It's tomorrow. That's not enough rest, right? 24 minutes.

• 10:57Speaker 02

  But how about, how about Thursday? Can he come back?

• 11:00Bill Simmons?

  Oh, man. Well, that's the thing is that they, they're gonna have to patch together game two or game three. Whitlock probably pitches both games now.

• 11:08Speaker 02

  Right.

• 11:09Bill Simmons?

  And he's been not only the best reliever on the team other than Chapman, but one of the best setup guys in either league. See of that.

• 11:16Speaker 02

  We know we have a game Thursday if we don't win tomorrow. So, and Chapman could pitch Thursday, but you're right, Whitlock, both, both games could pitch. Um, you know, they, they may do a bullpen game Thursday if they have to, uh, if it goes that far. I don't know.

• 11:33Bill Simmons?

  I mean, how ridiculous is that? They're gonna do a bullpen game?

• 11:37Speaker 02

  Well, at least, at least we traded for, for May from the Dodgers and, oh, oh, he's not pitching.

• 11:43Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, at least, at least none of the guys from the Devers trade are contributing in any way.

• 11:49Speaker 02

  But Devers wasn't contributing in San Francisco either. So.

• 11:54Bill Simmons?

  It's just, I, I, it's just a stupefying season, but it's been really fun to watch. I thought when Anthony, when it came out that he had no chance of coming back, that felt like it. And you could really feel it today when you saw the lineup laid out, even when they flashed it before the game, you're like, oh. And then Rafael is batting eighth and he's the only hitter, I feel like lately, other than Yoshida, who then had, you know, he came in off the bench and had the big hit, but Rafael has had, he's looked good the last two weeks. Like all of a sudden he stopped chasing balls and doing like the weird shit he's been doing. But then Yoshida, who, talk about looking like luggage.

• 12:31Speaker 02

  He looked, he looked dead in August.

• 12:34Bill Simmons?

  He was in the running for your least favorite Red Sox player of the year.

• 12:37Speaker 02

  But I was happy to see him come up to pitch it tonight.

• 12:40Bill Simmons?

  I know. Well, he's been, he's been good for like a, I don't know, like a month, five weeks, whatever. But he's, all of a sudden, those, those grounders to second base were starting to be line drives. But it's funny, each, each month of the season, somebody was inhabited by an evil spirit, right? Cause that, like Rafael, he had that unbelievable stretch right before the All-Star game. And then right afterwards, just like, you know, just became a zombie.

• 13:06Speaker 02

  Weeks of September, he couldn't get a hit. Couldn't buy it.

• 13:09Bill Simmons?

  And he was swinging at everything and like even when he had the big hit the other night, I, I thought he was going to start crying on the, on the field. Like he was so relieved that he came through, but I really, I like him.

• 13:20Speaker 02

  But that, that was another big storyline. He, he, he got the walk tonight.

• 13:26Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 13:27Speaker 02

  I don't know. I can't remember the last time he walked in a ballgame.

• 13:32Bill Simmons?

  And Narvaez had some really good at bats too, which I wasn't surprised by because he's a, I felt like he was going to be a big game catcher for them, but I, it's, it's, it's a weird one. They're going against, they're going against a lefty tomorrow and it's the same thing. We're going to have all these, this crazy lineup again of all these right-handers.

• 13:51Speaker 02

  Oh, that's right. Um, Roden is left-handed.

• 13:55Bill Simmons?

  Redon, you gotta use the pronunciation.

• 13:57Speaker 02

  Well, I could, I could.

• 13:59Bill Simmons?

  Well, how about, I mean, let's talk about the Yankee side of things. They take out Freed and.

• 14:05Speaker 02

  What, by the way, he has 99 pitches.

• 14:09Bill Simmons?

  Well, how weird was it that they brought him back out for one batter and then got like, so he warmed up and then pitches to one guy and then they get rid of him? We couldn't hit, none of our guys could hit him.

• 14:20Speaker 02

  I think that's going to be a big storyline in New York because the announcers are saying, well, they're playing the long game that if he's, they go to the World Series, he has to pitch seven times. Hey, you gotta win tonight.

• 14:32Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 14:33Speaker 02

  I never would have taken him out. He was unhittable. We weren't going to hit that guy.

• 14:37Bill Simmons?

  Well, the thing is you either don't bring him back out or if you're bringing him back out, then see how far he can go with them.

• 14:44Speaker 02

  Right.

• 14:44Bill Simmons?

  Cause if you're going to go through the whole process of having him throw all the warm-up pitches and everything, then what's the point of then sitting him?

• 14:51Speaker 02

  But 99 pitches, Boucher throws 117 pitches. I mean, Freed is their ace because they had the injury.

• 15:01Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, he's been really good the last, they see his stats like the last seven starts.

• 15:05Speaker 02

  You gotta leave him in. You gotta leave.

• 15:07Bill Simmons?

  Who, who are you the most afraid of in the Yankee lineup other than Judge? Judge is just absolutely petrifying.

• 15:17Speaker 02

  I really liked Bellinger. I know he got the hit.

• 15:20Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, he is. He's good at bats.

• 15:22Speaker 02

  I'm glad we didn't have a righty thrown to him. They have a lot of guys that just can can drop those little singles in and they wait for the big hit. That short right field, you know, the home run that the, uh, who got the home run? The shortstop. That was well hit. That was well hit.

• 15:45Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, but that was Volpe is like, he's, he's by far everybody's least favorite Yankee that I know.

• 15:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:51Bill Simmons?

  And they've been complaining about him all year. But yeah, Crochet, my buddy Hinch pointed this out. Crochet, this was like his Achilles heel all year was the worst hitter on the other team. Whoever the worst guy was, that was somehow getting him. So Volpe got him. And I was like, really? They're going to lose one, nothing on a Volpe homer? These fans have been complaining about him since April.

• 16:11Speaker 02

  Well, you noticed the next couple of times Volpe came up, Crochet pitched him differently. Didn't give him, didn't anything to hit. No fastball.

• 16:21Bill Simmons?

  It was, it was just an incredible crochet game though. I mean, I, I, I really like start to finish this season. There's not that many pitchers I would put, since I've been a Red Sox fan, that I would put over him that the Red Sox have had. Obviously you've had like some of those Clemens years and people like that, but just for like a start to finish season. He's, he's been just as lights out. Can you think of Pedro would be the, Pedro would be the 10 out of 10? I'm not even comparing anyone to Pedro, but like after him, he's in that conversation for best seasons.

• 16:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, definitely for best seasons. They had a little list in the paper about guys you'd want starting game one of a series like this. And yeah, uh, obviously Pedro, obviously Clemens, they had Lester in that list.

• 17:09Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, that's a good one.

• 17:10Speaker 02

  They had Beckett in that list when he was doing well for us. Even they had Schilling in that list, uh, you know, for one game when you're really stuck.

• 17:19Bill Simmons?

  I think he deserves to be on that list. Yeah, I'm okay with that.

• 17:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, but Crochet carved himself a little place in Boston Red Sox lore today.

• 17:28Bill Simmons?

  Well, they might lose the next two and but, but at least statistically.

• 17:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 17:33Bill Simmons?

  It's been a start to finish like masterpiece and considering a. You know, they, the stuff they gave up, the bet they made not knowing if he was going to be able to pitch in a big market and do all the stuff he's done. I've really enjoyed watching him. It's almost, he's not at that Pedro level where it's like, I'm clearing out tonight because Pedro's pitching. He's not at that level, but he's been a fun every five days guy.

• 17:57Speaker 02

  He's not at that level because it's his first year with us, but he, he did sign, what was a six-year extension?

• 18:02Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 18:03Speaker 02

  So he's going to be with us for a while and, you know, help is everything with a pitcher like that, but.

• 18:10Bill Simmons?

  Right, especially in this area. The, the bummer is that Anthony's not involved in this. I thought he was such a special player. He was a must-watch guy and it just felt like, man.

• 18:22Speaker 02

  You still wonder if we are able to move on if he's possibly going to play.

• 18:27Bill Simmons?

  Did you just put us in the next round?

• 18:30Speaker 02

  No, I don't want to do it. I said possibly. If we, I said if and possibly.

• 18:35Bill Simmons?

  They said he's in Florida.

• 18:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 18:38Bill Simmons?

  I'm not sure what's going on there. He's got this oblique thing that, the oblique is the new, I have no idea how long this injury, injury. It could be a month, it could be five months. You just don't know.

• 18:51Speaker 02

  I don't know. Isn't that the injury Castor's had last year, oblique?

• 18:55Bill Simmons?

  Probably. I mean, it's.

• 18:57Speaker 02

  It's a bad injury. Yeah.

• 18:59Bill Simmons?

  On my AL keeper team, it feels like we've had four a year.

• 19:03Speaker 02

  It's like.

• 19:04Bill Simmons?

  There's a red flag. Yeah, it's like basketball, like calf tightness.

• 19:08Speaker 02

  Yeah. It was so enjoyable, but so tense to watch. We haven't had that kind of game where every pitch mattered. I'm sitting, I'm sitting forward on the couch.

• 19:19Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 19:20Speaker 02

  I'm sweating in air conditioning. Every pitch matters. You don't want to go to the bathroom because you don't want to miss anything. It's, it was great to have that kind of baseball game tonight.

• 19:30Bill Simmons?

  Wow. And the big thing?

• 19:31Speaker 02

  We won.

• 19:33Bill Simmons?

  Even better than us winning and us advancing because I don't think this team is probably capable of winning four rounds. I think that would be borderline rack us. The better thing is beating the Yankees. That was like when they started cutting, when they had the lead in the late innings and they started cutting around and showing the faces. They could have just shown that instead of the game. I was so happy. I was like, can you show that section again? If everybody looks like they're about to cry.

• 19:59Speaker 02

  When the game ended and they went to the crowd, you mean? And there was a guy like this.

• 20:04Bill Simmons?

  They were doing it the last couple innings when they took out Freed and they immediately gave up two runs and they're just, the guy's like deer in the headlights, but we've had that look many times from on the Boston side. So we know what that looks like.

• 20:15Speaker 02

  I was a little surprised how many Red Sox fans were in the crowd because I'm sure you read Ticketmaster wouldn't sell tickets to Red Sox fans in Boston to go to the game.

• 20:25Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 20:27Speaker 02

  I hope they don't get beat up on the way out of Yankee Stadium. The fans did not look happy.

• 20:34Bill Simmons?

  No, it wasn't great.

• 20:35Speaker 02

  And Boone's going to take a lot of grief for pulling Freed, I think. And I think rightfully so.

• 20:43Bill Simmons?

  He also had, that was a weird one when he put Jazz in at the end of the game and then Jazz's spot came up against the lefty. It's like if you were, you're putting him for defensive purposes, but you're losing.

• 20:54Speaker 02

  But he put him in and he had to face.

• 20:57Bill Simmons?

  And then he had to face Chapman.

• 20:59Speaker 02

  Yeah. Didn't he face Crochet also?

• 21:02Bill Simmons?

  Oh, I can't remember. I mean, honestly, everything's blending together. Did he? No, he only faced Chapman.

• 21:09Speaker 02

  Just to win a bat.

• 21:10Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 21:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, that was very strange.

• 21:14Bill Simmons?

  The guy I was most afraid of, of all the random guys they have was Grisham because

• 21:19Speaker 02

  A lot of home runs.

• 21:20Bill Simmons?

  I had him on my, on my keeper team and he was just, oh, he was just pretty steadily a stud for them.

• 21:27Speaker 02

  I can't remember. Is he a righty or a lefty?

• 21:29Bill Simmons?

  He's a lefty. So they, they said, fuck it. And they played him. The guy that we're avoiding, or at least we avoided today, that I'll be interested if he plays tomorrow is Ben Rice.

• 21:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:39Bill Simmons?

  Cause he's been, he's been kind of a wild card.

• 21:45Bill Simmons?

  Oh, yeah. He'll definitely play tomorrow. Yeah.

• 21:49Bill Simmons?

  Unfortunately, Baio.

• 21:52Bill Simmons?

  I can't, I can't say he's been awesome the last six weeks.

• 21:54Speaker 02

  He died in September.

• 21:56Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 21:57Speaker 02

  But the one thing is that he has played well in Yankee Stadium and he has a very good record against the Yankees. He just isn't pitching well lately.

• 22:06Bill Simmons?

  He's not pitching well lately, but he does, I will, I will say in his semi-defense, he does like the big moments. He likes the, he likes like a full stadium and he does have a little bit of swagger to him that I'll be interested to see if it comes out. I don't know what happened to him the last few weeks. It hasn't been a disaster, but he just hasn't been at the same level.

• 22:26Speaker 02

  No, he's gone.

• 22:27Bill Simmons?

  He had a really nice run for like 11, 12 starts.

• 22:30Speaker 02

  He's gone in four or five innings. Rodan, as I say.

• 22:34Bill Simmons?

  Rodan, yeah. Who's been really good the last month and a half.

• 22:39Speaker 02

  But we, we have hit him.

• 22:42Bill Simmons?

  Well, can you imagine?

• 22:45Bill Simmons?

  It's funny to do this because by tomorrow, there'll be another game and this whole segment will be dead. But if they can somehow win one of these next two and knock the Yankees out, whoever relatively healthy team, they spent more money on it. They were one of the favorites to win the World Series and we knocked them out with this goofy roster of, you know, it's like a mash unit. I don't know what that, I don't know how the Yankees respond to that. And I don't know, like, do they fire the manager? Does somebody get fired? Is there like some major trade? I don't know what they do.

• 23:18Speaker 02

  Well, they have, they've had worse moments and have not fired the manager.

• 23:23Bill Simmons?

  This would be like, I mean, if they're down two runs tomorrow, heading into the late innings with the season on the line, this would be, this would be out of control.

• 23:32Speaker 02

  The only thing I do competitive is Boone deciding to take Freed out.

• 23:38Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 23:38Speaker 02

  That, that's, you know, I thought Cora pitched, managed.

• 23:44Bill Simmons?

  Managed an awesome game.

• 23:45Speaker 02

  Awesome game. And he's managed some awesome games to get us in here. Moving, I think he likes having all these players that nobody ever heard of.

• 23:56Bill Simmons?

  He's Randy Lefty. Yeah. He's batting Roman Gonzalez cleanup. Just like getting a huge kick out of it.

• 24:02Speaker 02

  And he got three walks, which were very important. Yeah.

• 24:07Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. So that Max Freed, I'm looking at it right now.

• 24:10Speaker 02

  Wasn't it 99 pitches?

• 24:12Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, but I'm trying to see. Yeah, he went over a hundred a few times like his high he got to 111 at the end of July. He did 107 in their last start of the season.

• 24:24Speaker 02

  I would have at least finished the inning.

• 24:27Bill Simmons?

  I 100% would have. I put it this way. I was psyched that they took him out. Weren't you? I was like, this is great. Definitely take him out.

• 24:35Speaker 02

  I think the Red Sox players kind of were going like this.

• 24:38Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 24:39Speaker 02

  Took him out.

• 24:40Bill Simmons?

  I mean, we couldn't touch that dude. He was awesome.

• 24:42Speaker 02

  And even the announcer said the same thing. They didn't want, they're not going to criticize the decision, but they somewhat criticized the decision when they said 99 pitches, crochet 117. You know, they left it hanging for the, uh, the fan to say, why didn't he stay in there?

• 25:02Bill Simmons?

  Well, listen, if this, this ridiculous Red Sox season, which we both watched a ton of, and I've, I've really enjoyed.

• 25:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:09Bill Simmons?

  And I really feel like baseball has made a nice little resurgence. I know some people never left. I know there are reasons why. You never stopped watching. I, I was getting really frustrated. The Mookie thing.

• 25:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:21Bill Simmons?

  Sent me in a, sent me in kind of a tailspin with the team.

• 25:24Speaker 02

  The Dodgers thing kind of sent me a little bit the same way, except.

• 25:30Bill Simmons?

  Except I understood it. I mean, we, we were, the, it, the whole thing was so strange with them and it didn't seem like he was in shape. And it was a lot of money and it was a chance to, you know, if they're going to actually use that money somewhere else, we'll see.

• 25:44Speaker 02

  Well, they used it, they used it to tie up some of it to tie up Anthony.

• 25:49Bill Simmons?

  Right. And unfortunately, Christian Campbell, who went to Worcester in, uh, June and was never seen again.

• 25:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think they'll see him again in a couple of years.

• 25:58Bill Simmons?

  I hope so. He's got to be like, I can't believe I'm not playing when he looked at some of the guys in the lineup. All right. Well, I'm glad we're still doing this. It's funny because when I was looking back at the homerun, I, the game I wrote about the Boone homerun. Or I'm sorry, the column I wrote about the Boone homerun in 2003. And I had a whole thing about how, you know, I called to make sure you're all right. And now somehow I'm older than you in that column. And I was worried you were going to keel over. And now I'm in the keel over stage, apparently. So thanks for fans. And you're still, you're still kicking around. So we're doing great.

• 26:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, except I'm sweating in the air conditioning, so.

• 26:38Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, try to have some water. All right. I'll, I'll check in tomorrow. Thanks for popping on the podcast. All right. Thanks. Take care. The Bill Simmons podcast is brought to you by FanDuel and FanDuel is keeping the energy up with their $2 million jackpot every Thursday game of the NFL season. Here's how it works. Opt in and place in anytime touchdown scorer bet on that night's NFL game using profit boost. If your player scores the first or last touchdown in the game, you earn a share of $2 million in bonus bets. I really like the Rams on Thursday. I think this Niner season is in a lot of trouble. So if you're doing the Rams, just, just bet on, you could do Puka for anytime TD. Do anytime TD Puka with the Rams money line,

• 27:22Bill Simmons?

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• 28:04Bill Simmons?

  This episode is brought to you by Hulu. Glenn Powell is Chad Powers now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney+. Actually, I saw the first episode of this. This show was good. Eight years after flushing his college football career down the toilet, hotshot quarterback Russ Holiday makes a comeback disguised as Chad Powers for the South Georgia Catfish, determined once again to take college football by storm. It's a little like Mrs. Doubtfire crossed with a football show, but they openly admit it. Watch the hilarious new Hulu original series Chad Powers now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney+ for bundle. Subscribers, terms apply. All right. It is September 30th, which means it's almost October 1st, which means

• 28:48Bill Simmons?

  the NBA is somehow only a couple of weeks away. Michael Pean is here from The Ringer. Are you ready? Feels like it's stuck up this year. You ready emotionally?

• 28:57Speaker 03

  I guess I have to be, right? To be honest, no, I'm not. It has snuck up, I feel like, but we have no choice. It's coming. It's about a month away. I usually kind of skip the preseason ish. I just don't think that there's too much to grasp, but regular season is like three weeks away. And when it's here, I'll be ready for it.

• 29:23Bill Simmons?

  Is Tatum, I asked you to do your five things you want to monitor over the next three weeks. Is Tatum involved or no?

• 29:29Speaker 03

  He is not. No.

• 29:31Bill Simmons?

  Okay. Well, can we talk about the Tatum thing quick? Cause this one minute video came on and I know you, you, you know, you have some Celtics birdies as well. They're this whole Tatum rehab thing with how fast they got the surgery and them never closing the door, but them also not wanting to talk about anything. And I don't know, man, he looked pretty good running around and, and I just wonder, are we going to see him? What, what's your instinct?

• 29:58Speaker 03

  My instinct was that that was AI generated. It, it, it made absolutely no sense. He's running up and down the court. How many months after rupturing his Achilles? Like there's the, the clip of him sprinting like over half court. How is the human body able to do that? I, I don't understand it. I'm sure you heard similar things, but the Celtics, they're not positive about this, but, because no one will ever know, but it was potentially the fastest ever Achilles surgery after a rupture in human history. That is something that I've heard, and so they don't know what exactly that will do to the human body and the impact that could have.

• 30:41Speaker 03

  But that video was wild. I did not anticipate seeing that.

• 30:45Bill Simmons?

  You know, I said that during the, uh, before, but at some point on a pod, maybe last spring. And I think people didn't think I was serious, that this weird slate of events where he gets injured in New York. Where the guy who does the surgery better than anyone in the world is in New York. So he didn't have to fly and he was on the operating table 10 hours after the surgery. Like, I think it's correct. I don't think that's ever happened before. Sometimes it's like a week or it's like you would have to wait till the swelling goes down. So who knows? It's this injury that just, you know, when I was growing up, only a couple of people would get it. And it was always felt like a death sentence, you know, like their career was never going to be the same. Now it feels a little more common, but I don't know.

• 31:30Bill Simmons?

  It seems like it all of a sudden ACL injuries, people are coming back in 10 months and that seemed crazy. So maybe the timetable will speed up. I don't know.

• 31:38Speaker 03

  Can I ask you, do you think that this is a good thing?

• 31:41Bill Simmons?

  I don't unless he's, he'd have to be a hundred percent for like two months. I would not be like, oh, it seems like he's okay. Let's get him out there. I think it would have to be one of those things where he's scrimmaging with the team, you know, in December, early January, and he's doing that for two months. And there's a point where it's like, well, if he's going to work out every day anyway, why wouldn't he just play? You know, but I would be so on the side of being careful versus they don't have a center. I don't even really have a, I don't know who the leading rebounder is going to be. I don't know who the rim protector is. It's not like this is a good team, but the East after the, you know, top four is so bad. They might be in the six to nine range anyway. I don't know.

• 32:24Speaker 03

  I think that it's dependent on how good the team is. And even then I would probably be extremely cautious, over cautious with his body and his future. Because I don't think they're, they're winning the championship this season. They got rid of Drew Holiday and Kristaps Porzingis. That's just not on the table. A playoff run is not on the table, even if Tatum was 100% healthy. So I would, I would be extremely cautious with him. I would be, I don't know, stop short of making an announcement that he's not going to play to quell suspicion and talk and rumors throughout the year. If that's a thing that lingers.

• 32:57Bill Simmons?

  They're not going to do that. He's too competitive. He's not going to be like, yeah, cross it off. He's, I guarantee he's like, I'm going to be back. I'm going to be back. I'm going to be back. And that's all he's thinking, but. You know, I just don't know enough about, there's two types of Achilles surgeries, apparently, and he got the one where they really repaired it. Cause you can get the other one where you can cheat it a little and maybe come back faster. He got the real repair. So I guess we'll see. It makes me obviously super duper, duper nervous to think of him coming back if he wasn't 100%. Cause as you said, they're not winning the title this year.

• 33:28Speaker 03

  No.

• 33:29Bill Simmons?

  There's no say that he could come back and be last year's Tatum in April and they're still not winning the title. So I would take it easy. I, I still, I'm in the side, like the over under for them on Fanduel, I think is 41. I'm on the side of, I just can't imagine Missoula rolling over. The guy is a complete maniac. They have this system in place. They have good guards. They're going to shoot a ton of threes and I just think they're, you know, and Jalen will obviously be, be having a feast every day, taking 28, 30 shots a game. But I think they're going to hang around a lot of games and probably be a little better than people think.

• 34:09Speaker 03

  I can see that path. I understand it. Missoula will be, I feel like it wouldn't be shocking to see him wheeled out onto the court in the Hannibal Lecter mask. At some point during the season, but I, I, you look at the roster and I just think the defense, the defense, the rebounding, there's so many just like porous elements of this team that can't be fixed. And it's just Tatum is, he's a top five player and removing him alone makes you an average basketball team, I think. And so I, I, I think this is going to be a pretty bad team and I would bet the under if I were gambling, a gambling person.

• 34:50Bill Simmons?

  Interesting.

• 34:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 34:51Bill Simmons?

  I just think they're going to shoot so many threes, the variance of every, like betting a random Celtic game is, would not be recommended. Cause they're going to try, probably try to shoot 63s a game and just get as many up. Yeah. The thing with Tatum, it's not just the points and, you know, all the ball handling and stuff. It was all the other shit he was doing. He was their best rebounder. He was their best defender. They could play big with him. He was Swiss army knife and all over the place. You're not replacing that. All right. I asked you to do five things that you're monitoring for these next three weeks, things that will help shape what you're looking for with the 2025, 26 NBA season. We're going to go from five to one, to your biggest one. So what's your fifth one?

• 35:34Speaker 03

  How good can the Golden State Warriors actually be?

• 35:37Bill Simmons?

  Hmm.

• 35:38Speaker 03

  They are top of mind right now for me, and I think everyone, just because of the recent activity that we've seen. Now that the moves, we kind of knew throughout the offseason that some of the stuff was going to happen, but now that it's official, you can kind of grade it out.

• 35:52Bill Simmons?

  You mean like Horford and?

• 35:54Speaker 03

  Al Horford, Gary Payton II, D'Anthony Melton. It just, it feels more solid and real and worth analyzing after a summer where so little was nailed down and you had the Jonathan Kuminga stalemate. They had like seven guys on their roster. It didn't feel like a real team and the way that they lost in the playoffs with Steph Curry getting hurt after playing 45 minutes in game seven against the Houston Rockets. It just didn't seem like, regardless of what they did, that they could actually make another, another lengthy playoff run. But now that I, you know, now that I'm seeing the rotation, I, I don't know, I kind of like this team and I'm, you know, I'm charting it out as in a

• 36:36Speaker 03

  best case scenario where Al Horford, who, now that he's officially on the Golden State Warriors, I think he, he might be in the conversation for best free agent signing of the offseason. He's just.

• 36:49Bill Simmons?

  You get 58 Al Horford games, but they'll be really high level each game.

• 36:54Speaker 03

  Right. He's tremendous. He fits in. He can play out of the pocket, spot up threes. Like if he shoots 40% behind the three-point line, he provides, you know, the top tier level defense that he does on his best nights and his best stints. I just think that that is a humongous addition and like a huge upgrade over the center rotation that they had last year with Trace Jackson Davis and, and Quentin Post and playing Draymond at the five. But now you have more options and versatility. So I just, I love that addition. And look, I think the Kuminga thing is kind of its own side conversation, but I, I feel for some reason optimistic that they will.

• 37:32Speaker 03

  Come to some sort of mutually beneficial conclusion here and get him out of there and replace him with anyone like Malik Monk, Royce O'Neal, those, those names that I saw, honestly, I would be thrilled if I was the Golden State Warriors because I think that those are better fits for what they're trying to do in the short term.

• 37:51Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, last year they were playing Quentin Post in that spread the floor spot that now they're going to have Al Horford, who's NBA champion and headed to the Hall of Fame. So the vibes will be better. Like he's probably the most beloved Celtic teammate of all time.

• 38:07Bill Simmons?

  They'll have Butler for a, for a full year.

• 38:12Bill Simmons?

  The Kaminga thing's weird. Like I thought it was weird that Kerr and, and Dunleavy didn't speak at media day because they didn't really seem like they wanted to answer questions about it. This is just so adversarial for just something that's part of the CBA, right? You can, can either sign a guy when he's got one year left or you just roll it into the next season. He takes the qualifying offer and you go. And like, when it got to the point like his agent's going on a podcast to complain about it's like this is your, your union signed up for this. This is how it goes. They don't want to sign him for that kind of, kind of money and played out. So I, it feels like it's going to be really adversarial and I don't really understand it because the best thing for him would be

• 38:54Bill Simmons?

  to just kick ass and either he gets traded or he gets a contract.

• 38:58Speaker 03

  Well, but Kerr is just on the record in various forms that he doesn't really like Jonathan Kaminga for this team. So I just, when are we going to end this and rip the Band-Aid off? Like it just, I feel like it's a divorce and it's just kind of, it's lingering.

• 39:18Bill Simmons?

  The problem is probably Kerr probably shouldn't have said anything.

• 39:22Speaker 03

  He probably shouldn't have said anything. And then also, if you watch the Golden State Warriors, whenever Jonathan Kaminga misses a defensive rotation or shoots a shot when he should have passed it, Kerr is like throwing the clipboard against the ground. So it's just, you can see the frustration with the coaching staff with him. I just.

• 39:39Bill Simmons?

  Well, it's funny. He was putting up stats in that Minnesota series. Meanwhile, they're getting waxed every day. And it's, that might be who he is.

• 39:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 39:45Bill Simmons?

  He just might be a good stats, bad team guy. And that's Jonathan Kaminga, which is why I think people are pretty lukewarm trying to trade for him. I don't, he's the type of player that I just don't know how to value anymore in this market. Cause if you're paying him 22, 24 million a year with this apron and, and how stingy you kind of have to be with guys that aren't your best guys. I just don't know where you're going. Like that was the Josh Giddy conundrum too for Chicago. They ultimately gave him right around there. But that, it's that like 18 million. That's why the Clippers traded Norm Powell. It's that 18 million to 26 million range seems really confusing for teams right now. Cause you just, you're better off just getting a guy making 5

• 40:28Bill Simmons?

  million who's 80% as good as Jonathan Kaminga, you know?

• 40:32Speaker 03

  Yeah. And I just don't think he's a good fit for that team. And based on the timeline of where they are, it just doesn't make sense. The Giddy with Chicago made sense. I guess you could argue because of where the Bulls are, which is, I mean, that's a different conversation. The Bulls are going nowhere and doing nothing.

• 40:49Bill Simmons?

  He helps them go 40 and 42 and get the 10 seed.

• 40:52Speaker 03

  Very good point.

• 40:53Bill Simmons?

  Gotta lock that down.

• 40:54Speaker 03

  Yeah. So it's just a different situation. And I personally, if I was running a team, would stay clear of Jonathan Kaminga.

• 41:01Bill Simmons?

  I would too. What's your number four?

• 41:04Speaker 03

  My number four is, uh, when will Lauri Markkinen get traded?

• 41:11Speaker 03

  So I wrote about this a couple of weeks ago on the Ringer.com.

• 41:14Bill Simmons?

  I, I, you had the team that I had been thinking about all summer in that piece.

• 41:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, I feel like I'm banging my head against the wall advocating for a trade that would send Lowry to the Detroit Pistons.

• 41:27Bill Simmons?

  It's the most logical trade of the year. I couldn't agree more.

• 41:31Speaker 03

  And I just think that they should do whatever it takes, considering how poor the Eastern Conference is with the Celtics down, the Pacers down, considering, you know, they have this, they have Jaden Ivey, who's this question mark, who's due contract extension eligible. Is he a good long-term fit with Cade Cunningham and Asar Thompson, who I think are your best two young players, Jalen Duran also. And the other side of that track is a guy who just complements everyone perfectly. He is like one of the better sidekicks you can

• 42:12Speaker 03

  get in the league, I think. I know his contract is incredibly pricey and they're going to have to start paying their young talent pretty soon, Detroit is. But I would just, I would swing and I would go for it because he's in his prime, he's 20, Lowry marketing, in his prime, I think he's 28 years old, and he doesn't need the ball to make other guys better. I think he's one of the more ideal pieces that you could add if you are a team like Detroit that is ascending right now. So I would, I would, I just want it to happen so bad. I want to see it.

• 42:45Bill Simmons?

  Well, he can, he can shoot, he can space and shoot, he can roll to the rim on anything. Like the, it feels to me like that, like him and Cade would be perfect together. The bigger question for me is, why is he still on Utah when they clearly don't care about the, I mean, they're just, they gave away Colin Sexton, they gave away Collins. They've been this way station for all these dudes that, I don't know. I mean, I like a couple of the guys. I thought Sensible looked pretty good last year, but for the most part, I don't really know what that team is. How many of those guys will even be on the team three years from now? And all he's going to do is hurt them as they try to get another high pick, right? So is the, is the question for me is like, it's probably a little more

• 43:28Bill Simmons?

  than the Bain trade, right? For what they get for him? It's probably a player plus at least three picks. So it's like Ivy plus.

• 43:39Bill Simmons?

  Three firsts and a swap, like that's the plus contracts are in there too.

• 43:44Speaker 03

  Plus, we know, yeah, Tobias Harris would be involved for sure.

• 43:48Bill Simmons?

  Poor Tobias, he's probably dreading it. Do you think he's been on Reddit in Salt Lake? Like, we're just looking at condos?

• 43:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, so just a tear reading my column. Yeah, so I think that it just makes so much sense for him to go there. But as you said, the price plus the fact that, you know, Danny Ainge and Austin Ainge are the ones who are negotiating this and they're notorious for particularly Danny notorious for having his price and not budging from it until a team gets there. And we don't even know if he likes Jaden Ivey. If he doesn't like Jaden Ivey, then there's nothing to talk about. Plus, the prospect of paying Jaden Ivey immediately. So it's.

• 44:31Bill Simmons?

  Plus, he's coming off a pretty major injury. I mean, they said he's 100% everything, but yes, I mean, Lowry's making 46.

• 44:42Bill Simmons?

  Tobias is 26. You can patch the rest of those together. Tobias and Ivy together. Ivy's probably has an asset better than any of the guards they have. You know, but then the conundrum of, all right, is he worth the 100 million? Is he worth 120 million? I would probably want Beef Stew in the trade, but I don't, I wouldn't give him up if I'm Detroit, if I'm getting Lowry, because now I feel like I can actually like make a run at the East. I like that thing. Like, if you have Cade and Lowry as your top two down the stretch in a playoff series, like that's, you're in the mix. I don't know if you're better than, than the Knicks, but you're in the mix. They're not in the mix right now.

• 45:24Speaker 03

  Who they almost beat without Beef Stew, without Ivy. Of course, the Knicks made some moves, but.

• 45:31Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, true. Has he said anything, Markkinen? Has he just been like?

• 45:37Speaker 03

  I have not seen him comment on it beyond the, I love Utah, I love being here. He's happy there. He's happy with his family there. I just think coming off of Eurobasket, being super competitive, being a guy who has never played in the playoffs, like at some point.

• 45:58Bill Simmons?

  Is that true?

• 45:59Speaker 03

  He's never played in the playoffs.

• 46:00Bill Simmons?

  He's never had one playoff game?

• 46:02Speaker 03

  Not a minute, not a minute.

• 46:03Bill Simmons?

  Oh my god.

• 46:05Speaker 03

  So at what point do you, are you sick of what's happening in this, like how many losing seasons can you go through if you're Lowry Markkinen where your, your team is getting fined because you're, have questionable issues that are keeping you on the sideline and away from basketball action? So I, yeah, I just, at some point, I feel like he will get a, I don't know disgruntled is probably too strong of a word, but he will put out the flyer that he wants to play competitive basketball.

• 46:34Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, it's a little different than somebody being mad that their team can't win the title. This is like, can I just be on a decent team that gives a shit about six months of the season? Can that happen? I'm with you. This is one of the more obvious ones in a while, and I don't know what the mechanics of the trade would actually be, but something's there. And whether they, if I'm Utah, Thompson has to be in it and not Ivy.

• 47:02Speaker 03

  Well, that's a no go for me.

• 47:04Bill Simmons?

  Really? It's a no go for you?

• 47:07Speaker 03

  He's, he's untradeable for me. If I'm.

• 47:09Bill Simmons?

  Untradeable?

• 47:10Speaker 03

  Well, in this context, yeah, he's untradeable.

• 47:13Bill Simmons?

  You gotta give up something to get something, though.

• 47:15Speaker 03

  That is very true. I'm extremely high on a Star Thompson, who I think we could see really special things out of this year. Already one of the better perimeter defenders in the entire league, already one of the most athletic players in the entire league.

• 47:29Bill Simmons?

  Well, that's why I want him if I'm Utah. I'm with you. Detroit, if I'm Detroit, I'm not doing it. I have to keep him and I have to keep Cade. I'll talk about everybody else.

• 47:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. I think we're on the same page.

• 47:40Bill Simmons?

  Although I'd probably want to keep Dern, too. I don't know why Utah would want him anyway. Now it's time for a very special segment of the show. It's called Perfect Balance, brought to you by our friends at McDonald's. I love McDonald's. Perfect Balance. Let's talk about a duo. Operating in a professional sport that just seem like they're made for each other. It's got to be Stafford and Puka Nakua right now for the Rams because it's weird. Stafford had this with Cooper Cup and he had that legendary best start to finish wide receiver season ever. And then just Cup came in, became the 2.0 version of it. And when you watch those guys, it doesn't matter 33, 38, 313, it just always feels like Puka's going to get open and Stafford's going to find him and they are in perfect, perfect sync.

• 48:25Bill Simmons?

  The best I've ever seen for this was Montana and Rice. Any big game, you just felt like Rice was getting open and Montana was finding him. Not saying Stafford and Nakua, like Montana, Rice. But right now, when you're watching football, the connection, those two guys really, really stands out, really special. Anyway, that's it for the addition, this edition of Perfect Balance, our special segment brought to you by McDonald's. And if you want to taste Perfect Balance McDonald's Special Edition Gold Sauce, sweet, smoky, tangy, made just for chicken. It's making me hungry just talking about it. Taking that delicious snack wrap, McCrispy Sandwich or McCrispy Strips to golden new heights. McCrispy just sounds, just making me hungry.

• 49:09Bill Simmons?

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• 50:43Bill Simmons?

  Hey, I was lucky enough to get a son and a daughter through their early teens and their mid-teens in the social media era. And even though we were constantly monitoring it, there's still a whole bunch of stuff that can go wrong. And that's why Instagram teen accounts have automatic protections on by default. Built-in content settings for the content teens can see. Contact limits for who can contact them and time management tools like daily time limits. And sleep mode. Teens are automatically placed in the teen accounts. Teens under 16 will need a parent's permission to change any of these settings to be less strict. Instagram will continue adding built-in safety features to help create age-appropriate experiences. Learn more about teen accounts and Instagram's ongoing work

• 51:26Bill Simmons?

  to protect teens online at instagram.com/teenaccounts. All right, what's number three?

• 51:33Speaker 03

  Number three is, so this deep, versatile, highly skilled, and experienced version of the Denver Nuggets. Just how great will they be?

• 51:47Speaker 03

  I can't wait to watch the Denver Nuggets this season.

• 51:49Bill Simmons?

  Me too. That's my number one this year.

• 51:51Speaker 03

  I am so excited. Like, not to spoil anything, but I'm picking them to win the title and not really thinking twice about it. They've been the best offense in the NBA the past few years. Whenever Jokic is on the court and the past couple of years, particularly last season, it felt like he was doing it with one arm tied behind his back. And now you give him a solid backup center with Jonas Valanciunas. You add Bruce Brown Jr., old friend from the finals team. You get Tim Hardaway Jr. solidifying the bench, giving yourself more crunch time options. The more I think about the Cam Johnson, Michael Porter Jr. trade,

• 52:31Speaker 03

  the more I like it for the Denver Nuggets just on the court in the short term. I just think he's a fantastic fit and he gives you things as a ball handler and a play creator that Michael Porter Jr. just doesn't. You can go tit for tat about who's a better shooter, who's a better movement shooter. And you can talk about the years of chemistry that are baked into the relationship with all those DHOs that MPJ had with Jokic. I just think Cam will pick up right where MPJ kind of left off in that role and be awesome. And he can play with Jokic on the bench and I think boost the offense a little bit. That's another thing. I'm looking forward to watching. So.

• 53:15Bill Simmons?

  The other piece with that is he's, he's not a health risk. Porter had the back issue forever. Last year he had the shoulder issue and it's just like, I'm not positive I'm getting eight months out of him. Cam Johnson, I feel way better about just knowing that he's going to be there in April, May and June. Porter, I think his body really makes me nervous, especially at 40 million a year.

• 53:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's definitely a huge factor. Um, so I know they only won 50 games last year. Like, I don't know how crazy I want to get with this, but I feel like this can be a 61, 62, 63 win team. Do you, do you feel the same way? Like, how optimistic are you about the Nuggets?

• 53:58Bill Simmons?

  You're preaching to the choir. They're 54 and a half on FanDuel right now. Their 60-plus odds are plus 320, which I think is a live bet because we've never seen them with a bench before. Also, last year, you mentioned they win 50. Murray was an absolute mess for the first six weeks of the season, right? And figure he'll come back. They wouldn't have played international. He'll be healthier. And, uh, and I, I think their coaches, I think that situation's gonna be better. I was really impressed by Adam and last year in the playoffs. I think they really like him too. I think the Malone thing kinda burned out. I, I love everything they did. I haven't decided what I'm doing yet, but I'm either picking Denver, OKC to win.

• 54:41Bill Simmons?

  It's, it's, it's gotta be one of those two teams in my mind. And, and we've already seen Denver can go toe-to-toe with them. I, I really, I gotta look at it more and I gotta look at the back-to-back stuff and factor in stuff like Jalen Williams just not being hurt for four months last year. Or, you know, which he was, he was hurt down the stretch. They hid the injury from us. Topich, is he actually gonna play for them? What is that gonna do? The, what you have after you win the title, the confidence you have, which I, I just think teams are different in a good way after they win one. And they're young. And usually when a team is trying to repeat, they're usually a little older and they start getting injuries. They're like fucking babies still.

• 55:23Bill Simmons?

  You know, so it's a tough one, but I, I think Denver, I think those are the two to pick. I'm with you. I cannot wait. I'm really happy that they finally did some shit. It feels like, I was looking at it, they still have a little room left. To do maybe one more thing, whether it's like a buyout guy or maybe even get a little creative, they're not like over the second apron or anything. They got rid of that Porter money for Johnson and they added a couple of guys, but like Hardaway's on a cheap contract, you know?

• 55:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, they're barely in the tax. You're right. They're, they're under the first apron, kind of way under the second apron. So they do have, and they have an empty roster spot. So a little bit of flexibility.

• 56:02Bill Simmons?

  The guy I wish they had signed, and I could say this about five teams is Yabaselli, who I just thought was such a great pickup by the Knicks. I just really like him. And I think, like, I didn't understand why San Antonio didn't get him and they, they, they spent like 10 million a year on Cornet. God bless Cornet, but I would just rather have Yabaselli for half the price. But I think Yabaselli is just a playoff guy. And I thought he would have been good for Denver, too. What do you have for number two?

• 56:29Speaker 03

  Number two, I don't want to get judged too harshly with this one. Is there any chance the Fred VanVleet injury ends up being a blessing in disguise for the Houston Rockets?

• 56:43Bill Simmons?

  Whether they find out Reed Shepard is actually way better than they thought, Thompson can handle the ball, you run it through more. Yeah, there's some stuff. It's, there's a case.

• 56:54Speaker 03

  There's a case. You know, I heard you talking about this right after the, the injury happened. And I was nodding along, listening to you and Zach talk about it and, and specifically talk about how, you know, the development of Amen Thompson and Reed Shepard and the young pieces was not really the point of the season. The point of the season is to contend for a championship and, and win it. You just signed Kevin Durant and the time is now. And I get that. You know, I've come around and I'm just like, maybe I'm overthinking this, but just considering the size of this team. And if you play like an Amen Thompson, Jabari

• 57:38Speaker 03

  Smith Jr., Kevin Durant, Alpern Shangoon, Steven Adams, starting lineup, which is something I think Ime Udoka, Ime Udoka said was a possibility at Media Day. That is like, have we ever seen any basketball team that huge? How do you match up with that? Like, how? I don't understand how anyone gets a rebound except the Houston Rockets when they're playing their starting five. Like, I, I think it's, it's. There's just so much intrigue with them in terms of, you know, you take out Jalen Green, who I thought was a minus in a lot of ways. You add KD still to kind of boost up the half court offense. I'm just really intrigued by Amen Thompson. I think he can be one of the

• 58:21Speaker 03

  more special, um, highlight reel type of forces we've seen in quite some time, given his size and just-

• 58:30Bill Simmons?

  And he's someone to monitor too, over the next three weeks. If he starts like, there's a GQ feature, he launches his new cologne. I, I just, I hope he's, I hope he's more basketball centric and not, this is my time, here I am. Um, I want to see him, can you make like third team all NBA before you add like the 17 things off the court? That would be my hope for him.

• 58:52Speaker 03

  Sure. I think we're aligned there.

• 58:55Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, just third team all NBA.

• 58:56Speaker 03

  And I, I love Shangoon, uh, so much. I loved him for a long time and watching him-

• 59:02Bill Simmons?

  So were you a Eurobasket guy?

• 59:03Speaker 03

  Uh, no, I'm not a Eurobasket. I'm a, I'm a, I need my rest and relaxation guy.

• 59:08Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Cause apparently the Eurobasket stuff with him is out of control, but I, I, I'm the same as you. I need to decompress for basketball.

• 59:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 59:16Bill Simmons?

  In the summer.

• 59:17Speaker 03

  I think just you, like the depth of this team. I know Dorian Finney-Smith is hurt right now, um, but just, I forgot he was on the roster until I was checking out Media Day. Um, Aaron Holiday is like a stopgap, can be a stopgap point guard who gives you a solid 10, 15 minutes a game. Um, I'm really high on Reed Shepard. I, I like him a lot. And I think this is a fantastic opportunity for him. Throughout the course of this season, I think we could see him contributing in ways that are different in, you know, March and April than they are in, um, in October and November. So I love this team still. Um, I'm not, I, I sound like I'm not really an appreciator of Fred VanVleet. I am. Um,

• 1:00:02Speaker 03

  I just think that the, how the team is built can still withstand that injury to a certain extent. And by the time we get to the playoffs, they will have figured out some stuff about themselves, um, that I think is crucial to surviving multiple playoff rounds in the Western Conference.

• 1:00:19Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, we'll see. I mean, my big point was when we get to these playoffs and that you have to play OKC or Minnesota. And if you don't have a true ball handler, I'm just gonna be nervous.

• 1:00:29Speaker 03

  It's fair.

• 1:00:30Bill Simmons?

  And that's the thing with Reed, who, after we did that pod with Zach, a friend of mine who's, who loves basketball and is involved in the league, texted me and said he saw Reed at Summer League playing and said he played like a rich spoiled kid at an AAU tournament. That made me nervous. That's a pretty, pretty pointed scouting report. It's where all of our guys really loved him heading into the draft, which we're usually not like way, way off, you know? Everybody's like, ah, there's some Mark Price here. Now, the draft was weird. I don't think he would have been the third pick in a normal draft. I think in last year's draft, he probably would have been in the probably six to nine range, but we'll see. He's the X factor. I think it'll be interesting

• 1:01:15Bill Simmons?

  because they'll, we'll know in December, January with him, whether he's actually gonna be able to play. Like, like Pritchard, not to compare two white guys with vaguely similar games, but I'm going to. Pritchard, there was that moment where they were like, he's gonna play more this year. We're gonna start using him. And, and then he actually, you know, he had the sixth man. But there was a moment there with Pritchard where we were like, is, what is this guy? Is he, do we just like him because he comes in and is a heat check guy? Or is there really something here? Maybe we'll find out with Shepard. I don't know. I, I'm, the other thing with Houston, that I haven't heard a lot of people talk about is just Durant has moved into this Aaron Rodgers, LeBron area where he's just been in the league for so long, we just assume he's gonna be the

• 1:01:59Bill Simmons?

  same every year and his stats are relatively the same. But at some point, it becomes unrealistic for a seven foot guy nearing his 40s to just be what we're expecting from Durant. And I don't know what that year is. He said he was open to the extension, which kills the Saudi Arabian League because I think he was one of the guys that was probably going there if they had it. But I just don't know what he looks like.

• 1:02:25Bill Simmons?

  Next year, three years from now, is this gonna be the last good Durant year? I don't know.

• 1:02:30Speaker 03

  I will say real quick, I like the fact that the Houston Rockets are built to preserve Kevin Durant, like preserve his body, like he's not gonna be playing in the interior defensively at all.

• 1:02:42Bill Simmons?

  That's a really good point, yeah, cuz he was almost tied to Brooklyn and Phoenix. Yeah, you're right.

• 1:02:47Speaker 03

  He was probably Phoenix's best defender last season, which really says a lot about their situation and why they were so poor, but, um, but yeah, I think, I just think it's a really great, well-constructed team, and I, I think, to answer the whole point of this exercise, I'm just super interested in seeing how it looks on the court with this, just being so huge, like Tari Eason is like one of the better wing offensive rebounders in like NBA history. I can't wait to see it, it's just gonna be a lot of fun.

• 1:03:15Bill Simmons?

  Sounds like you're gonna watch some Rockets preseason.

• 1:03:19Bill Simmons?

  What do you got for number one?

• 1:03:21Speaker 03

  I think that this is the most important question in the league from a big picture standpoint. Um, where, where, where and how will Victor Wembanyama be better this season?

• 1:03:32Speaker 03

  It's just, like, are his post moves gonna be tighter? Is this three, is he gonna shoot 40% behind the three-point line? Is he, uh, just gonna be quicker reads in the pocket? You know, I don't know if you saw, but he's officially listed at 7'4" now.

• 1:03:49Bill Simmons?

  They're still lying, he's 7'6". Why do they do this? He's definitely 7'6".

• 1:03:55Speaker 03

  Clearly, is clearly the biggest person in the league, and yeah, just, I mean, I don't need to explain why Victor Wembanyama is awesome, but adding more sensible pieces around him. I know De'Aaron Fox is this like nagging injury that's kind of a bummer and could derail a little bit of the beginning of the season, but still, when Dylan Harper gets back, when Fox is back, they still have Vassell. I like the Luke Cornet signing a lot, and I feel like a lot of the talk at media day with the Spurs was just how excellent their defense is going to be, and I agree with that. I mean, top five defenses in the cards for them this year, and I wanna see just how Victor

• 1:04:39Speaker 03

  evolves offensively to the point where, you know, last year, San Antonio's offense was the exact same with him on the court and off the court, and- Obviously, the roster is a little bit different now.

• 1:04:51Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:52Speaker 03

  But I just want to see the offensive rating go to a top 10 in the league tier when he's on the floor. And I feel like that is already possible. And I'm not going to spoil where I had him in my top 100, but by the end of the year, I think he could get even higher. And there's not too many players that he can jump.

• 1:05:12Bill Simmons?

  Over 44 and a half for them.

• 1:05:16Bill Simmons?

  Out of all the teams in that range, I think that's the one you have to stare at as who could make the big jump that we aren't expecting. And it basically comes down to if he's just on the court for six months with all these athletes and all this defense they're going to have. And finally, a little bit of size. I like Cornet, too. I just, I would have just rather had Yabaselli, who played with with him in France for half the price. But they have Cornet, they had the money to do it.

• 1:05:44Bill Simmons?

  He'll be able to play with Wemby, I think, a little bit. Wemby's talked a big game about the training he's done. He shaved his head.

• 1:05:54Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, you're probably right. They're probably the biggest floor ceiling team.

• 1:06:00Bill Simmons?

  But if you think like, who has the most floors between their ceiling and their basement? They probably have the most floors because there's also the, can Wemby play a whole season?

• 1:06:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, absolutely. I think that this-

• 1:06:15Bill Simmons?

  Do you trust him? What would you move over, under for games for him? I was like, I don't know, 65? 62?

• 1:06:23Speaker 03

  At this time of year, I'm always just an eternal optimist and I assume everyone's going to play 82 games. So that's where I'm at. And he talked a lot about, yeah, you mentioned it, the offseason training and no one worked harder than me this summer. And- I don't know, like, he's already the best defensive player, but there's still so much that he can get better at defensively. And obviously, like, offensively, still so high impact. I mean, I always think about just him at MSG on Christmas Day and the show he put on. And it's like, we're gonna get to a stage where that is consistently who we see. And I just want to see when that,

• 1:07:04Speaker 03

  when that happens. And this is year three. A leap could be coming. If it does, San Antonio Spurs could be extremely dangerous.

• 1:07:16Bill Simmons?

  And they have some, some pieces if they want to get frisky, December, January range. It's interesting, on FanDuel, he is tied for the fourth best MVP odds already. Him and Giannis are both 12 to 1. They're behind SGA and Jokic and Doncic. But better odds than Edwards. It gets, it gets really kind of dumb after that. All of a sudden Durant's 50 to 1, he has the sixth best odds, Cade Cunningham, Brunson, Mitchell. It's really a four-person MVP race with Wemby and Edwards as the wild cards. Edwards as a wild card only if Minnesota, for some reason, went like 65 and 17, and he was just incredible. That would be the, that would be the way for him. Giannis,

• 1:07:57Bill Simmons?

  I mean, Wemby, they're 54 and 28. He's Defensive Player of the Year. He plays 72 games and puts up, what, 25, 10 and 3 with 5 blocks a game? There's some case. I'm excited to watch him with Fox, too, because I, we just didn't get it at all. I didn't really know what it looks like.

• 1:08:22Speaker 03

  Only 5 games last year, yeah.

• 1:08:23Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Harper, I don't know how much he's gonna help them this year because he's pretty raw, but it'll be fun when he comes in, you know, but it's, and he's been, at every stage of his life, he's been one of the best players at whatever level he's been on. So I find it hard to believe he's just not gonna play this year. You'll hear from him. Yeah, I mean, that's an interesting team. I think that's a good first choice. I think I agree with it. The only one I would have, the only one I would have added. Is the, I'm really interested even in the preseason with how Dallas is going to use Flag.

• 1:08:58Speaker 03

  Mm hmm.

• 1:08:59Bill Simmons?

  And I don't think they even know what they have yet and they're doing this point forward and I just, to me, I wouldn't have him dribbling the ball. I wouldn't have him handling the ball like that that much. I would be using him as this crazy Swiss Army knife all over the floor, playing big lineup, small, and just kind of taking advantage of him as a two-way guy. I'm going to be interested to see how much they throw at him, especially with Kyrie not back yet. You know?

• 1:09:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think that's an interesting one and, you know, Dallas has so many different types of lineups that they can play even with Kyrie out.

• 1:09:33Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:09:34Speaker 03

  And if you play Cooper Flag as your point guard, you know, or if you don't play him as your point guard, I should say, then does Klay Thompson come off the bench? Is he happy about that? Does Anthony Davis play the five more instead of this really eternally frustrating commitment to the four with Gafford and Lively constantly?

• 1:09:58Bill Simmons?

  Or do you play a center with AD and Flag as your frontline?

• 1:10:02Speaker 03

  Huge.

• 1:10:03Bill Simmons?

  And then you just play Klay and D-Lo, or you play Klay and PJ Washington and you have Flag dribble the ball up? Like, they do have like some crazy lineup options and I have no idea how they're going to play it. Cause I think Flag, for his age, remember how long it took for Tatum to even figure out how to be a point forward? It took him like probably four years to even be able to consistently handle pressure and things like that. His rookie year, he was just running to corners and not doing anything.

• 1:10:31Speaker 03

  He was a spot-up shooter. Yeah.

• 1:10:33Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. So just to ask Flag, come in to the hardest league in the, in the planet and you're going to handle the offense? I don't know. Maybe he can do it, but I'd be surprised. And apologies to Conconipal for not making your top five. I was really excited.

• 1:10:47Speaker 03

  I thought about it, you know, gave him a long look, just couldn't fit him in, unfortunately.

• 1:10:51Bill Simmons?

  I don't know who my league pass favorite is going to be for the bad 4pm PT games between Charlotte or Washington, but they're both in the mix. Because Washington's just a freaking fantasy team. I don't know what I don't know what's going to happen with them, but I'm kind of excited to watch them. And then Charlotte has the makings of maybe being okay, you know, who knows?

• 1:11:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, Charlotte has my attention.

• 1:11:15Bill Simmons?

  13 and 7?

• 1:11:16Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:11:16Bill Simmons?

  You know, to start the first 20 and they're talking like LaMelo's figured it out and all that. Who knows? All right, Michael Pena, look forward to read you on The Ringer and seeing you and listening to you on all of our shows. Good to see you. Thank you.

• 1:11:31Speaker 03

  Thanks, Bill.

• 1:11:32Bill Simmons?

  This episode is brought to you by Expedia. You know how at the end of the season, your team goes to Cancun, sometimes earlier than expected, sometimes after blowing a 3-1 series lead? But what if you went to Cancun? With Expedia, save up to 30% when you bundle and save. You can book the flight or the hotel now, then book the rest later. In all fairness, though, hopefully, your team doesn't go to Cancun. 1-2-3 Cancun. Or if they do, you go with them. Expedia, the one place you go to go places. Sign in to save. Savings vary. This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Whether it's a pumpkin spice coffee that goes splat in your seat, or a weekend tailgate that leaves your trunk full of gear and who knows what, you're going to want WeatherTech in your vehicle. Whether you call it fall, autumn, or spooky season, whether the mess is your fault, the kids, the dogs, or the

• 1:12:16Bill Simmons?

  weather's fault, you're going to want WeatherTech. For American-made floor liners and a cargo liner that laugh in the face of fall weather, visit weatherTech.com today. All right, Craig Horlbeck is here, just back from the streets of Ireland, where he was with the fantasy football crew going to see Steelers Vikings, your favorite team, the Steelers. What was the overseas football experience like? Not just Ireland, but just in general, the whole, the whole thing. Tell us.

• 1:12:40Speaker 06

  It was way better than I thought it was going to be. It felt like the Super Bowl there. It was the first game in Ireland, obviously, and the Steelers being there was a big deal particularly. Like, the Rooneys and the Steelers really pitched Goodell specifically on going to Ireland. Dan Rooney, who was the son of Art Rooney, the founder of the Steelers, was the US ambassador to Ireland under Obama. So like, there's a lot of connections between Steelers and Ireland. And it was crazy. I mean, I- 90% of the people walking the streets were wearing Steelers jerseys. There was very little Vikings action there. So it was awesome. Like the whole atmosphere, it honestly felt like I was at the Super Bowl.

• 1:13:15Bill Simmons?

  Wow, because we took the Vikings in Ringer 107 last week and then you texted me, yeah, it's all Steelers fans. And I'm like, what? I had no idea that it was like basically Pittsburgh adjacent.

• 1:13:26Speaker 06

  Yeah, it was crazy. Like, there was a quote after the game from Patrick Queen, the Steelers linebacker, and he said that the atmosphere there was better than in Pittsburgh. It's just like, they should play there every year.

• 1:13:38Bill Simmons?

  What were the fans like? Like, were they the stereotype of, I'm 25% Irish, so I could say this, like a hard drinking, happy Irish crowd? Or like, were there things you, did they seem like they knew the rules?

• 1:13:49Speaker 06

  Um, well, there was, it was funny. Before the game started, they were like on the Jumbotron, they were teaching the fans the game. There was like every rule for like the first hour before the game, they were showing every like rule, every flag, what each position does. So they were clearly trying to teach people what was going on. But luckily, I feel like the game had a lot of big moments that people who didn't even really know what was going on could get, could be happy about. Like the DK Metcalf run, there was the, the Jalen Ramsey, we thought it was the fumble return for a touchdown. That was huge. People went crazy. So at least there was a lot of like big, easy to understand moments. But I, they must, I mean, there must have been 50,000 Irish people there that are now converted Steelers fans for life.

• 1:14:29Bill Simmons?

  Wow. I mean, did they seem like they had enough sophistication to realize that when the Vikings lost two guys, that the Carson Wentz was their QB, the game was over? That that was a wrap?

• 1:14:39Speaker 06

  Uh, they probably now know what Carson Wentz is all about. It was, it was great. Because, uh, they really got a real masterclass of, of two coaches crumbling at the end of the game. O'Connell and Tomlin, like, they must have thought they were drunk on Guinness, because the last four minutes, they probably didn't even really know how bad it was. But also, it like, it was, it was a perfect NFL game, because there was so much fun stuff, big plays, big moments. But then at the end of the game, there's all these like tiny, ridiculous rules, like the Carson Wentz getting thrown to the ground, but, but getting the, uh, intentional grounding call. People were confused by that. There was like the Kevin O'Connell onside kick. It was kind of the perfect NFL experience, I feel like, for the Irish fans there. They got a little bit of everything.

• 1:15:21Bill Simmons?

  What was the dominant Steelers jersey in Ireland? Please don't tell me Aaron Rodgers. Watt, okay.

• 1:15:27Speaker 06

  Yeah. Watt was everywhere. I gotta say, there was very little Ben Roethlisberger jerseys these days.

• 1:15:33Bill Simmons?

  Interesting.

• 1:15:33Speaker 06

  I know. There was a, he was there, Bettis was there. There's a lot of Steelers guys there. It's all Watt. Um, and then a little bit of Rogers sprinkled in. People, people like Rogers right now. Like the, the players like Rogers. I know there's a lot, like a lot of people in media don't like him, but I think a lot of players like Rogers. He, he was, he met Aaron Jones after the game on the field. And like, they all love Aaron Rodgers. So it's interesting that there's such a, I think it might be the biggest split between media perception and then what players actually in the locker room feel about a guy.

• 1:16:05Bill Simmons?

  Do you Pittsburgh Steelers fan Craig like Aaron Rodgers? Have you gotten there yet? You're three and one. You're in the catbird seat in the NFC and the AFC North, which I want to talk about in a second, but you, you were, it took you a while to come around on this one. And then you kind of had to blindly come in because it's your team, but have you come around?

• 1:16:22Speaker 06

  I mean, right now, yeah, how can I not? They're three and one. Rogers is playing good. Vibes are high. The schedule's about to get horrific, so it might turn very quickly and angry Rogers when the, like Rogers, it's, it's a lot more fun, his antics when they're winning. If, if they, if they go like one and four over their next five, the vibes might kind of drastically flip, but right now, yeah, he's playing good. They're using him well, I think. Like it's a lot of quick hitting stuff, but he's getting the ball out quick. They're using DK Metcalf like Debo Samuel. They're just like, they're not running him down the field that much anymore. They're just getting him the ball, you know, two yards down the field and letting him run and pick up steam. It's, it's like a bunch of tight ends and heavy offensive line sets. I think the Arthur Smith Rogers thing is actually working a little bit better than, than everybody thought.

• 1:17:06Speaker 06

  Rogers is kind of playing ball with Arthur Smith and then actually like doing some of the things that Arthur Smith wants, like taking the ball under center and stuff. So it's nice to see right now.

• 1:17:14Bill Simmons?

  Well, it was really frustrating to go against when my team played them because I just felt like he was only, he can only do two things anymore, but he does them really well.

• 1:17:22Speaker 06

  Yep.

• 1:17:23Bill Simmons?

  And the defenses haven't seemed like they've figured out the quick stuff. You said the schedule does get harder. They still have some good teams left. They have Green Bay left, Indianapolis, the Chargers, Buffalo, Detroit.

• 1:17:32Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:17:33Bill Simmons?

  They got Baltimore twice. So they're three and one. I was trying to figure out, well, there was a lot of dirt poured on the Ravens this week. Lamar went out. They've lost all of these defensive starters, including a couple for the year. I don't know where their pass rush is. They're a little top heavy now from a salary cap standpoint. And they're one and three, which is usually not a good sign for a possible playoff team. The thing is, I was looking at their schedule because I said on Sunday, because I had in my head, I thought they had a tough schedule, but it was really tough in the first month and it died a little bit. They had three straight home games. Then basically they play all non-playoff teams except for Pittsburgh until week 15, whereas Pittsburgh has a much, much tougher slate.

• 1:18:16Bill Simmons?

  The bigger question to me is, is this just a bad division? Because Cincinnati's bad and Cleveland's bad, and maybe neither of these teams are good. Maybe this is just like the AFC South this year.

• 1:18:26Speaker 06

  Yeah, I mean Lamar's going to be out, it looks like for at least a couple of weeks. So even though they're playing the Texans, the Rams, and then the Bears, which is tough because they could probably lose a lot of those games. But you're right. I mean, I still think it's likely that he comes, if he comes back in two, three weeks, Dolphins, Vikings, Browns, Jets, Bengals, Steelers, Bengals, they're going to have to go like eight and one, eight and two down the stretch to make the playoffs, which I definitely honestly think they will. But the Browns, it looks like are starting Dylan Gabriel now, Burrows out. This to me, it's like the Steelers, it's all going to kind of end up, I think, the way everybody expected. It's just going to be a different path there. Like, I think the Steelers will end up with like nine or 10 wins.

• 1:19:02Bill Simmons?

  It's unbelievable.

• 1:19:03Speaker 06

  Be a wild card team.

• 1:19:04Bill Simmons?

  I finally went under on them. I couldn't take it anymore. The 41-year-old Rogers, I was like, I can't, I'm out, guys. And some other three and one, and they're just going to figure out how to get to nine wins. Because six and eight gets something to that nine wins, six and seven.

• 1:19:16Speaker 06

  I mean, they were winning nine and 10 games with Kenny Pickett, Mason Rudolph. How can they not do it with Aaron Rodgers? That feels easy.

• 1:19:22Bill Simmons?

  This is weird. Tomlin is just like, he's like a family member for you at this point that just does weird shit every, every day. And you're just like, ah, that's Uncle Mike.

• 1:19:31Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:19:31Bill Simmons?

  Just taking the delay of game on fourth and one for no reason at all, and then punting it in the end zone.

• 1:19:36Speaker 06

  I wish he could coach for three and a half quarters, and then we have a new coach for the final quarter.

• 1:19:40Bill Simmons?

  They could closer.

• 1:19:41Speaker 06

  Yeah, can we do that? Can we have two coaches for different quarters? That'd be great.

• 1:19:44Bill Simmons?

  That'd be amazing. Like whoever the best unemployed coach is, they just come in and they take it over. I, the Cincinnati piece, I didn't think they were going to be good anyway. And then on Monday night, they were so bad. I mean, did you get back in time to watch the two terrible Monday night games?

• 1:20:01Speaker 06

  No, I was, I was in the air, but I was watching on my phone.

• 1:20:04Bill Simmons?

  You missed nothing. You missed nothing. Cincinnati feels like.

• 1:20:09Bill Simmons?

  This might be a wrap for them because they were so top heavy to begin with. And now with, with, with no offensive line and Browning, um, it doesn't even matter that they have $60 million of receivers. And then Cleveland, at least Cleveland's defense is good. I don't know if they're going to figure out the quarterback situation in time. So, I mean, this might be a nine win title champ.

• 1:20:29Speaker 06

  Definitely. Yeah. The Steelers have a real shot to win the division, but I, the schedule just gets so hard for them. And it opens up so easily for the, for the Ravens at the end, that I think it's going to be close still.

• 1:20:39Bill Simmons?

  I'm looking up the odds. So you think, so Lamar's out, we don't know for sure.

• 1:20:46Bill Simmons?

  And they're still minus 150 and the Steelers are plus 190 now, which is under, you finally got into the 100s.

• 1:20:52Speaker 06

  I mean, 190 is not bad. You should probably take that.

• 1:20:56Bill Simmons?

  Well, how many, what do we really think with Lamar? Cause these hamstring things always are two weeks longer than they say they are. I never trust the hamstring.

• 1:21:04Speaker 06

  Also, it's like worse for him than a different quarterback. Like if he was Jared Goff with a tweaked hamstring, it's like less, not that big of a deal. With Lamar, I don't think Lamar in general, we were talking about this on the fantasy show. I feel like Lamar is slightly less athletic than he used to be. And you can kind of see it. And it's like, all these guys, I mean, Mahomes is 30, which is weird in my head. He seems like he's 27. So Lamar's 38, Josh Allen's 29. All of these guys who are super physical, all these great runners, like we're in this new awesome era where half these quarterbacks are great throwers and runners. We don't really have a lot of like data on how running quarterbacks age, like really good running quarterbacks age. There's like a few guys we've seen that's like Michael Vick, but I think.

• 1:21:45Bill Simmons?

  Who did not age well, by the way.

• 1:21:46Speaker 06

  No. And like, I think Lamar's a good passer, but I, I do think that he, he is in a different phase, I think athletically. Like he's no longer outrunning linebackers as easily as he used to. He's not as twitchy, I think. So the hamstring, even if he does come back in a couple of weeks, I don't know, I don't know if he'll be the same.

• 1:22:03Bill Simmons?

  Not to defend Lamar.

• 1:22:06Bill Simmons?

  It's possible he was hurt already and the thing got worse. I noticed it too, but I think he's too young to be like moving into a, if he's like 33, it'd be one thing. But it is interesting to watch somebody like my guy Drake May, who Sal DeRis will be called Drake Maybe, which I'm still upset about.

• 1:22:23Speaker 06

  Maybe he's good now, it looks like.

• 1:22:24Bill Simmons?

  Maybe, maybe he's good, but he, he does seem really athletic.

• 1:22:28Speaker 06

  Yeah. I don't know. If you think about like a running back, right? A running back around 28, 29, starts to enter a new phase of their career. And Lamar and Josh Allen, these guys are like, they're not running quite as much as running backs, obviously, but they're also runners. So I don't think it's that crazy to think that when they're 28, 29, 30, maybe their passing is still like going on the way up. But the rushing, I think, will start to plateau, at least athletically.

• 1:22:52Bill Simmons?

  I think a good one for this is Steve Young, who unfortunately for him was playing in a different era where you would just get absolutely annihilated.

• 1:22:59Speaker 06

  I mean, yeah.

• 1:23:00Bill Simmons?

  But Steve, Steve Young was like the best athlete of the 90s. And his career started later, so we had less miles on him. Let me look at this.

• 1:23:08Speaker 06

  Yeah, I mean, Steve Young, he didn't start until he was, what, 30?

• 1:23:12Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, but he, he basically 30, yeah. So, yeah, I guess that's a tough one. Yeah, there's not a lot, because I'm trying to think of some other ones. I mean, Cam Newton, who was more physical as a, as a runner, but still like he, he kind of was, moved into a different phase by that late twenties. You might be right. It's an interesting theory. Have to monitor it. This will be the first wave of dudes, though. I feel like Allen will be superhuman until he's like 35, 36. He's just too big.

• 1:23:41Speaker 06

  Yeah, he's got the size. That's the thing is he's not, he's not reliant on like the quick twitch stuff. He's just like a freight train.

• 1:23:47Bill Simmons?

  Are you back in on Mahomes?

• 1:23:50Speaker 06

  I mean, yeah. What, what he's doing with these receivers, he made, he's making all the old Patriots receivers that got cut relevant. Ty Quan Thornton and Juju Smith-Houston and all that stuff. And Xavier Worthy being back. And I didn't think he was going to be healthy or look good because that shoulder injury from week one looked bad and I can't believe he's back so soon. He looked all right and Rashid Rice is back in two weeks and uh yeah, I think you have to be back.

• 1:24:13Bill Simmons?

  It's playing out the way it felt like it was fun to do the, oh my God, the Chiefs, but it was like, all right, let's see what this looks like when Rice is back. The third thing is a fun X factor. We all liked him on the Patriots. He just couldn't stay on the field, but it was clear like he was fast as shit, but he kept either getting hurt or dropping passes and they just gave up on him.

• 1:24:32Speaker 06

  Yeah, he looks pretty good.

• 1:24:34Bill Simmons?

  Fun toy for them. We had the most traumatic fantasy injury we've had in a while last night with Tyreek Hill, who's having a really good game, too. He, of course, is on most of my teams. But that was one of those immediately, it's over. It feels like for the most part through this first month, first month, we haven't had a ton of like, oh no, my season's over injuries, right? That was the biggest one and neighbors.

• 1:24:58Speaker 06

  Yeah, this week started a lot of them, but uh no, knock on wood. Last year, the running backs were super healthy and everybody thought that wasn't going to happen again. And so far, the running backs have been pretty healthy. It's the quarterbacks who have been injured.

• 1:25:11Bill Simmons?

  Right. Well, and the thing with the quarterbacks is if you don't have Allen, you don't have Lamar, there's like 10 other guys that are all around the same.

• 1:25:20Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:25:20Bill Simmons?

  Right? And it doesn't, in, in our Yahoo fantasy draft that we did with that I'm 0-4, and I took all those quarterbacks. It was actually the right move. My mistake was building a team around Jamar Chase and Brian Thomas Jr., who apparently is in witness protection now.

• 1:25:36Speaker 06

  Are you starting to sweat in that league? Are you nervous? You're the only 0-14 punishment is kind of looming?

• 1:25:40Bill Simmons?

  Of course. I mean, I built my team around two receivers who are underachieving and Brock Bowers, who it seems like he's either playing hurt or being used as a second tight end.

• 1:25:50Speaker 06

  I know. I had a theory I wanted to pitch to you because of, honestly, based around the, all the injuries that are going on. I think fantasy should start after week four. I think that's the solution. I think you watch for a month because there's no preseason anymore, basically. Nobody plays. So no one's, everyone gets hurt the first month of the season because they're not used to the physicality yet. Like, like they're not practicing in pads, they're not getting hit. First month, everybody goes down, everybody looks like shit. And so many people's fantasy seasons are just over already. It's week four and it's like, oh, great. Brian Thomas is just terrible. I had no idea. Malik Neighbors just tours AGL. Burrow's out for the season and it's like, it's just a horrible experience. If we all just drafted after week four, it'd be a much more interesting situation in my opinion.

• 1:26:35Bill Simmons?

  I was in two guillotine leagues and I think that solves some of what you're thinking.

• 1:26:39Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:26:39Bill Simmons?

  Because you could do the midseason guillotine league. We lost the other one that I'm in that you're not in. We lost because we have Tyreek and Lamar.

• 1:26:47Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:26:48Bill Simmons?

  And it was just the unrecoverable double whammy, but the bigger issue is having Kenneth Gainwell on the bench.

• 1:26:54Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:26:54Bill Simmons?

  And then waking up and finding out that he was actually starting. Regardless, the guillotine, I was way more invested in where we are and did you survive and what did you do than the guys that come up. It's versus like the, the old school fantasy where it just seems like completely random.

• 1:27:11Speaker 06

  I know. When you're 0-4 in a regular fantasy league, you're just, you're just fighting to stay above water for the rest of the season.

• 1:27:17Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. It's like you, you've basically been guillotined anyway. Well, we did punishments for the Yahoo fantasy league and I was okay with the one I had, but now I'm starting to wonder about it's, does the winner, so I picked, I have to wear a jersey of a team that I absolutely hate.

• 1:27:36Speaker 06

  Yes. This is kind of your worst case scenario because you're right now in last and Sal is in first. So he gets to decide what you wear.

• 1:27:43Bill Simmons?

  Oh, Jesus.

• 1:27:44Speaker 06

  And who knows what he'll do.

• 1:27:46Bill Simmons?

  So like he could basically say, I don't know, wear, wear like a LeBron Lakers jersey or wear a Roger Clemens Yankee jersey and then I would have to wear that on my podcast for a solid week.

• 1:28:01Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:28:02Bill Simmons?

  But I feel like I would deserve it because I did a bad job with the fantasy league. I asked you to come up with your top five fantasy stories through four weeks. I don't know if we stuffed them, them already, but let's go from five to one. What do you have for number five?

• 1:28:15Speaker 06

  So we're starting small and then we're ending on the biggest?

• 1:28:17Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:18Speaker 06

  All right. So starting small, I gotta say, I think fifth is just that the, a lot of these are rookie related because this was a big rookie hype season. I feel like there was a lot of rookies being drafted very highly in drafts. Travis Hunter just being irrelevant.

• 1:28:31Bill Simmons?

  Immediate, just a disaster. We joke on the fantasy show, we call him expensive Wondell Robinson.

• 1:28:36Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:28:36Bill Simmons?

  And I was very jealous of that bit. Yeah, it's almost insulting to Wondell Robinson at this point. He's like, he's like expensive Pop Douglas.

• 1:28:45Speaker 06

  He is. He's just like not playing and he's the worst of both worlds. He doesn't play corner that much and he doesn't play receiver that much. So I don't under. He's the 77th highest scoring wide receiver this year in fantasy, which feels impossible. But he, you know, he was being drafted before guys like Roma Dunze, Abuka, Pierceall. He plays 58% of the snaps. He's like a backup tight end, you know, it's, it's a disaster.

• 1:29:08Bill Simmons?

  He's, he doesn't really jump out off the TVs either like I thought he would. I mean, there's a disaster from a fantasy standpoint because people were drafting him like he was better than Abuka, which was nuts. But there's the other piece where they traded up to two, they gave away next year's number one pick. And even worse, they didn't take Abdul Carter. Like if they had traded up to two and taken Abdul Carter, I'd be like, all right, I get it. The guy, the guy looks like he's Michael Parsons 2.0 basically. Or even if they had taken Will Campbell, who's been awesome at left tackle. Or they just stayed at five and they took Mason Graham, who's been really good on the Browns. But they traded up to take a guy that if you redrafted, there's no way he goes ahead of those three.

• 1:29:53Bill Simmons?

  I'm not sure he goes ahead of Gentey, especially after what we saw last week. I'm not sure if he goes at a membo and banks the two tackles that win the top 10. It's really rough. Like fortunately, there's no Jaguar fans to get mad about it, but holy shit.

• 1:30:08Speaker 06

  No, it's, they need to just give up. I think that they're trying to double down because they want to prove that it was worth it to trade up for him. So like, no, no, we're going to stick to the, he's going to play both sides of the ball thing. Because that's the only way we can explain having to trade away a first round pick to move up two spots.

• 1:30:24Bill Simmons?

  That's the only way you make the trade. If you think you're getting two players, which is how they kind of, they soft sold it after the draft. Like, look, this is like filling two positions at the same time and it's.

• 1:30:35Speaker 06

  It's feeling, it's feeling none.

• 1:30:38Bill Simmons?

  It really was, was, you know, that guy took over Gladstone.

• 1:30:42Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:30:42Bill Simmons?

  And it seemed like he wanted, yeah, and he wanted to make a big move and be splashy and gutsy. But you know, it's like putting a, putting an indoor pool and like your two bedroom house, you know, like, look at this, we can swim inside. It's like, all right, cool.

• 1:30:56Speaker 06

  We really do need a ranking of like the, the new GM, new owners, splashy move disaster, power rankings. We need a list of that, like Ishbia coming in and just like signing Bradley Beal. Like we need, we need a ranking of all of those.

• 1:31:08Bill Simmons?

  Well, the owners, it's pretty reliable. It's weird when the GMs do it.

• 1:31:12Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:31:12Bill Simmons?

  Like if I'm getting a job, I'm like, man, I really want to do everything right. These, he was like, ah, Travis Hunter, he's Deion Sanders. Here are all our picks.

• 1:31:21Speaker 06

  Yeah. I mean, he's like 34. He's been watching football for 10 years. Like, you know, Travis Hunter the best player he's ever seen in his life. He's like, I'm taking that guy.

• 1:31:29Bill Simmons?

  Unbelievable. Well, that trade, we'll see, but it's, it has the early makings of an all-timer. All right. What's number four?

• 1:31:35Speaker 06

  Number four is Tyler Warren, the tight end on the Colts, just immediately being a top five tight end in fantasy for the next decade.

• 1:31:44Bill Simmons?

  I, yeah.

• 1:31:45Speaker 06

  We, it was week one. It was the first drive of week one and he had three catches for 40 yards. And I think it was the quickest I've seen all I need to see start to a career ever. I was like, he, it's it, it's over. He's good. He, he's, he's now immediately in the top five. Cause I mean, Kittle's hurt. Brock Bowers is banged up. McBride's been fine. It's like Tyler Warren might be the number one tight end, tight end in the NFL right now.

• 1:32:10Bill Simmons?

  What's weird is we have a ton of good tight ends.

• 1:32:12Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:32:13Bill Simmons?

  And yet he really jumps out. I mean, it's so funny because when I was doing the Pats preparation, when they had the fourth pick and it was like, well, maybe we trade back two spots and we just take Tyler Warren because he looked amazing.

• 1:32:25Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:32:25Bill Simmons?

  And then by the time the draft started, it was like, people stared at us tape too much. And then they decided Loveland was better. Loveland went 10 and he fell to 14, which is like, that's stupid. This guy's clearly a monster.

• 1:32:37Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:32:38Bill Simmons?

  I like when they line him up in the backfield. And then he's basically like, uh, I don't know, almost like a sports movie, like a high school running back that's just way bigger than everybody else and just plows into everybody.

• 1:32:50Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:32:50Bill Simmons?

  He's awesome.

• 1:32:51Speaker 06

  They treat him like they like Derrick Henry in high school where he just like does everything. He ran in a touchdown last week. He was throwing touchdowns in college. He'll probably throw a touchdown this year. He's like LaDainian Tomlinson, but as a tight end, he can do everything.

• 1:33:04Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, it's funny. I, I really wanted to talk myself out of the Colts being a playoff team, but they should have won last week. They should be 4-0. And they just have a lot of skill. Like Taylor, I think, is in the running for most talented running back, and he's certainly one of the best running backs this year. They have a bunch of receivers who can get open. They have Warren. They have a good offensive play caller. Like, I think it's legitimate. I thought they should have beat the Rams last week. That was a really stupid result, you know?

• 1:33:30Speaker 06

  It's a really tough beat for Anthony Richardson. Like the fact that the Colts are so good, immediately, like they brought in Daniel Jones, who, you know, I don't know, is a, is a fine quarterback and run an offense, and they're like fucking awesome.

• 1:33:44Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:33:44Speaker 06

  It's like, Jesus, how, how bad was Anthony Richardson that this team is immediately a playoff team?

• 1:33:48Bill Simmons?

  So you're buying the Colts long-term?

• 1:33:50Speaker 06

  Yeah, I think they're good.

• 1:33:51Bill Simmons?

  For fantasy purposes, too?

• 1:33:53Speaker 06

  Um, definitely. I mean, Michael Pittman's been, been really good and surprising. Jonathan Taylor's always been one of the best running backs in the league. I mean, he was

• 1:34:00Bill Simmons?

  He looks great.

• 1:34:01Speaker 06

  He was amazing in college and he's finally healthy. He just had a weird couple of years. He was suspended. He was hurt.

• 1:34:07Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Yeah, the holdout always like kills these guys for a year. I think we're gonna have two AFC South playoff teams, the more I stare at it. And I, and Houston might be one of them. I'm still not willing to count them out because their schedule was tough early. They're 1-3, like they're right in the middle of this. They can, you know, they're, I think they're playing Baltimore. Aren't they playing Baltimore this week?

• 1:34:27Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:34:27Bill Simmons?

  Catching Baltimore, the backup, which, you know, on paper was supposed to be one of their tougher, toughest games, and suddenly it doesn't look as tough now. And then, what was the other thing I noticed with them?

• 1:34:40Speaker 06

  Are you still in on Stroud? I'm, I don't know about CJ Stroud anymore. It's, it's been like two, like a year and a half since he's been good.

• 1:34:49Bill Simmons?

  It's weird because they drafted these receivers and they kept Collins. And then I've heard the case that losing Tank Dell was really important for him, but

• 1:34:59Bill Simmons?

  I don't know. Like that, should that completely change the course of your career that Tank Dell got hurt? His offensive line can't block.

• 1:35:05Speaker 06

  No, but there's a lot of other quarterbacks.

• 1:35:07Bill Simmons?

  You could say like nine quarterbacks don't have an offensive line that can block, you know?

• 1:35:10Speaker 06

  Yeah. I don't know. I'm, I'm starting to worry. Like Bryce Young is still not very good. So it still looks like CJ Stroud was the right pick, obviously, but I don't know. With him, they're moving through offensive coordinators, they're moving through offensive lines and none of them are seeming to work. And it just goes to show you shouldn't, you shouldn't start a podcast after your rookie season in the NFL. It's a bad sign.

• 1:35:30Bill Simmons?

  Or do, what did, didn't he big bro? Who did he big bro? Caleb Williams? Yeah. It felt like from the moment he did that, uh, the wheels came up. I thought he was really good as a rookie though. So we know.

• 1:35:41Speaker 06

  Oh, he was amazing. Yeah.

• 1:35:42Bill Simmons?

  I, I just, I refuse to believe it's not in there. But yeah, every week he, he does not jump out of the TVs and does look awesome. All right. What's number three?

• 1:35:51Speaker 06

  Number three is Ameck Aibuka, just being the most obvious rookie that was going to be good. He's, he's a top, he's the wide receiver seven in fantasy right now. And I can't remember a wide receiver looking like a, like a vet so quickly.

• 1:36:04Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:05Speaker 06

  And it's just one of those classic things where scatting was kind of this way where it's these players who are obviously good in college, but they don't test well. And it's like, well, he was never, he was never the best receiver on his team. You know, there was all these other awesome Ohio statewide receivers around him and you know, at the combine, oh, you know, he's not the fastest. He's not, he can't jump the highest, all this stuff. But every game you watch, he's, he's just like always good, always clutch, always delivers. It, these guys always work. It's like Amon Ra St. Browns and Keenan Allen's, Chris Godwin's, these guys who just. Yeah. Puka. Um, we should like go the other way with the combine. I want the guys who test poorly. If they were good in college and then they test poorly, I want them.

• 1:36:43Bill Simmons?

  Well, the fact that they named him captain before the year, that was crazy. I've never seen that. We talked about him when we did our big fantasy, my guy draft with DK and.

• 1:36:54Speaker 06

  Right. He was your guy.

• 1:36:54Bill Simmons?

  Danny.

• 1:36:55Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:36:56Bill Simmons?

  But it was like, you guys all had him too. It was, it was, you can kind of tell from the preseason when somebody just has it with the way everyone's talking about it. And what's weird is Brian Thomas Jr. Was that guy last year?

• 1:37:07Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:37:07Bill Simmons?

  And then. I don't know what happened to him this year, but Iguodala seems like a little bit of a safe bet. I like the fact that Evans went out and he was still impactful against Philadelphia. Like, you know, that that was like, all right, he's got Mike Evans on the other side, but it didn't matter. He's just gonna get his yards. What do you got for number two?

• 1:37:28Speaker 06

  Two, I have that Roma Dunze and Caleb are quietly very good at fantasy. I don't, Rome, I think is really good. Caleb, I think the jury's still out. We don't exactly know, but in fantasy, I mean, it's, it's working. Roma Dunze is a top three wide receiver in fantasy. Caleb is the sixth highest scoring quarterback right now, which I think people aren't really realizing. And even if they haven't like looked that good, the Ben Johnson stuff for fantasy is working and the schedule is so easy. I mean, we knew that going in, but man, that, you know, they've already started out pretty hot in terms of fantasy. You look at their next four games, they play Washington, New Orleans, Baltimore, and Cincinnati. I, I think like it's only gonna get better. And I, again, I'm, I'm still on the fence with

• 1:38:11Speaker 06

  Caleb, but the people who bet on them in fantasy and believed in Roma Dunze and Caleb Williams, it's, it's working. It was, it was a huge success.

• 1:38:18Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, it's funny. Josh Lamar and Mahomes are the top three in fantasy just for points right now. The next two are Drake and Caleb.

• 1:38:26Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:38:26Bill Simmons?

  The two second year guys. And I like Drake this year, especially because he's gonna get the extra points with his legs, but Caleb I loved.

• 1:38:34Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:38:34Bill Simmons?

  And I think you're right. I think even in a game where the Bears kind of suck, I feel like he's still gonna get points somehow. He'll still get to 20 in fantasy.

• 1:38:41Speaker 06

  Yeah, it's just so underrated what they play. Like there's two, three times a game, there's just like a wide open receiver for Caleb to hit for 40 yards. And

• 1:38:49Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:50Speaker 06

  So.

• 1:38:51Bill Simmons?

  I'm in. All right. What's your number one?

• 1:38:53Speaker 06

  Number one is just that the elite wide receivers have sucked or have been hurt. Like, it's a disaster at wide receiver. And if you look at the top, the top 15 guys drafted, like three of them have been good. And it's Puka, Amon Ra St. Brown, and Jackson Smith and Jigba. Literally, the rest are a disaster. Brian Thomas and A.J. Brown, it's like DEFCON one for those two. Nico, Nico Collins, Justin Jefferson, Lad McConkey have been super underwhelming. Jamar Chase has, has not been great because Burrow got hurt. And then you have Tyreek is out for the season. Malik is out for the season. C.D. Lamb, high ankle sprain. It's just been a disaster and it was the same way last year. A bunch of wide receivers got hurt last year. And so the lesson is just as all like wide receiver is always super deep and there's so many good wide receivers coming into the league now that

• 1:39:38Speaker 06

  you should just be taking quarterbacks and running backs at the top of your draft and and just waiting on wide receiver because there's so many good ones and you the talent is pretty flat. There are actually like a lot of really good wide receivers that you can get pretty deep.

• 1:39:51Bill Simmons?

  I think it's hilarious that Keenan Allen is a top 20 fantasy receiver. He was one of those when somebody took him and like, oh, man, you almost felt bad for the pick.

• 1:40:02Speaker 06

  Yeah, he didn't even get drafted half the time.

• 1:40:04Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, he got drafted in a in our knockout league and I was just like, oh, man, that's a reach. He's he's done. But we see these sometimes. The the Pickens one, I think, is the most surprising because Quentin, even Quentin Johnston, like he had enough flashes last year and the way they've been using Herbert, like, I'm not surprised he's putting up stats. I didn't personally like him. But Pickens, I mean, you had him on the Steelers. Like, were you shedding tears when they traded him?

• 1:40:35Speaker 06

  No, because we got DK Metcalf and I thought that was a worthy trade off. You can only have Pickens for three or four years and then he's got to move on, I think, before he gets squirrely. But I mean, the talent, he's incredible. His like down the field stuff, the contested catch stuff. I mean, even just the amount of balls he caught that didn't land in bounds, like he has, he's the number one wide receiver of all time with catches that were almost in bounds. He catches everything. I think talent's standpoint, he's great. And honestly, C D getting hurt was like the best thing that ever happened to him because now he's happy and can rack up a bunch of stats.

• 1:41:06Bill Simmons?

  He's never had to be like Dak either. Dak was putting the ball in places where he could do weird Pickens things. So if if we were doing a fantasy draft right now, starting week five, and we did snake, snake draft, old school.

• 1:41:20Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:41:21Bill Simmons?

  Jonathan Taylor is the first pick, right?

• 1:41:23Speaker 06

  Yeah, it's probably the top three are probably Jonathan Taylor, Bijon Robinson, and Puka.

• 1:41:29Bill Simmons?

  And I would take Puka before Bijon.

• 1:41:32Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:41:32Bill Simmons?

  Some getting 10 catches, 90 to 140 yards every week and probably a TD.

• 1:41:37Speaker 06

  But then you also have to deal with him going to the medical tent twice a game. That's like the only downside.

• 1:41:40Bill Simmons?

  And you just factor that in. It's like, there he is. I think he just goes in there to hang out. I think he charges his phone.

• 1:41:48Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:41:50Bill Simmons?

  He's doing texts.

• 1:41:52Speaker 06

  Yeah, I think he needs a breather. I mean, he catches so many goddamn passes. He needs to take a play off and relax.

• 1:41:56Bill Simmons?

  Fucking exhausted. So you think Bijon and then drop off after that?

• 1:42:01Speaker 06

  Uh, I mean, McCaffrey's been pretty good, to be honest, but yeah.

• 1:42:06Bill Simmons?

  You know, I, it feels like fantasy is gravitating toward this a little more each year, but you know, it's nice to have on your team, Josh Allen.

• 1:42:15Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:42:16Bill Simmons?

  He's just gonna have more points than all the other quarterbacks and he's not gonna get hurt and it's the most important position out of all the fantasy things. Cause you can always patch together and grab something weird running back and do this and oh, RJ Harvey, I'll grab him. But Josh Allen just putting up 29 points a week, can't beat it.

• 1:42:33Speaker 06

  Now, Hertz, Lamar, Josh Allen, it's the same.

• 1:42:37Bill Simmons?

  But Hertz is an emotional toll with Hertz. Like he had 132 yards last week.

• 1:42:42Speaker 06

  Yeah, but he's just tush pushing into touchdown the week.

• 1:42:44Bill Simmons?

  You can't, it's tough though. They had no completions in the second half.

• 1:42:48Speaker 06

  Yeah. No, you're right about Josh though. Every time somebody drafts Josh in fantasy, I think it was the week one, the Ravens game, when he had like 30 fantasy points in the fourth quarter alone. I got a text from my buddy being like, I will be drafting Josh Allen every year for the rest of his career.

• 1:43:02Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:02Speaker 06

  That's how everybody feels when they have him.

• 1:43:05Bill Simmons?

  He's like the mo, when you're out with a group of friends and somebody orders something and then everyone else gets super jealous of it. Whatever that is, whatever restaurant you're at, you're like, oh, that looks good. I wish I got that.

• 1:43:17Speaker 06

  The person who gets the dessert.

• 1:43:18Bill Simmons?

  Josh Allen.

• 1:43:18Speaker 06

  I should have gotten a dessert, damn it.

• 1:43:20Bill Simmons?

  The fucking crumble? That looks great. Why didn't I get that? All right. So that's your number one. The, the wide receivers just being completely disappointing during a time when we're spending $50 on receivers.

• 1:43:32Speaker 06

  Yeah, it's a bloodbath out there. It's absolutely brutal. So just take Josh.

• 1:43:35Bill Simmons?

  Jamar was the first pick in a lot of drafts.

• 1:43:38Speaker 06

  In the Ringer draft as well. Yeah.

• 1:43:40Bill Simmons?

  The funny thing with that is Burrow, who gets hurt every year behind a horrible offensive line.

• 1:43:48Bill Simmons?

  Probably not a safe pick.

• 1:43:50Speaker 06

  No, I should have known.

• 1:43:51Bill Simmons?

  To be like, oh, I have Chase attached to this guy who's gonna just get the shit kicked out of him until he eventually goes in the blue tent.

• 1:43:58Speaker 06

  Yeah, but you could have said the same thing about Puka. I mean, Matt Stafford was getting epidurals in his back.

• 1:44:02Bill Simmons?

  Well, that's why Puka fell. Like, Puka was in the, felt like he was in the 30s by the time draft started.

• 1:44:08Speaker 06

  I mean, if you really want to be savvy, you should probably trade away Puka because either he or Stafford or both of them are gonna get hurt and you could get like a ransom for him, but it's hard to do that.

• 1:44:17Bill Simmons?

  He had a really enlightening quote about how important Devonte Adams has been for him, Puka. That felt like a, kind of shots fired at Cooper Cup without it being a shots fired.

• 1:44:27Speaker 06

  Oh.

• 1:44:27Bill Simmons?

  Where he was just like, from the moment he got here, you could feel our offense open up and all that. And it's like, ah.

• 1:44:33Speaker 06

  Cup was jealous probably because Puka like does the same things that Cup did, but Devonte's different. Like, they play different roles, so they can coexist more easily than Puka and Cooper Cup.

• 1:44:42Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, he liked, Puka like 2.0 Cooper Cup, who had the single greatest start to finish wide receiver season in the history of the league.

• 1:44:48Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:44:49Bill Simmons?

  And, and was made irrelevant. Robert Redford Month on the Rewatchables. How many of these have you seen?

• 1:44:56Speaker 06

  Uh, that we're, that we're going to do, I think the Sting and Condor are the only two I've seen that we're gonna do.

• 1:45:03Bill Simmons?

  And who knows if we're doing Condor?

• 1:45:05Speaker 06

  Right, right, right. We don't know that.

• 1:45:07Bill Simmons?

  We have Jeremiah Johnson coming next week.

• 1:45:09Speaker 06

  Which I have not seen. I'm gonna watch that today.

• 1:45:11Bill Simmons?

  I cannot, I absolutely cannot wait for your take.

• 1:45:14Speaker 06

  That's the one, the famous meme, right, of Redford doing the nod? Yeah.

• 1:45:18Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:19Speaker 06

  Okay. It's sad that that's how I know that movie.

• 1:45:21Bill Simmons?

  Fifth highest grossing movie of 1972, and 50-plus years later, it's been reduced to the nodding meme. That's how people know it. That's your generation. It's your fault.

• 1:45:30Speaker 06

  Well, we wouldn't know it at all if it wasn't for the meme.

• 1:45:34Bill Simmons?

  True. You wouldn't even know it was on Tubi.

• 1:45:36Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:45:37Bill Simmons?

  All right. Say hi to the fantasy guys for us. Good to see you.

• 1:45:40Speaker 06

  Thanks.

• 1:45:42Bill Simmons?

  All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to my dad. Thanks to Michael Pina. Thanks to Craig Horlbeck. Thanks to Eduardo and Gahow as well. And I'm gonna be back Thursday? Maybe Wednesday?

• 1:45:58Bill Simmons?

  Definitely one more podcast. Who knows? Might be back tomorrow night if anything crazy happens in Red Sox Yankees. I will see you later in the week.

• 1:46:19Bill Simmons?

  Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino, or 18 plus and present in DC, Kentucky, or Wyoming. Gambling problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-887-897777, or visit ccpg.org/chat in Connecticut, or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here, visit gambling helpline ma.org, or call 800-327-5050 for 24/7 support in Massachusetts, or call 1-8778-HOPE-NY, or text HOPE-NY in New York. This episode is brought to you by Core Power Protein Shakes. You know how we always talk about the little things that separate great athletes? Post-workout recovery is a big factor.

• 1:47:04Bill Simmons?

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• 1:47:48Bill Simmons?

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