Rich Paul: On earning reputation of most powerful non-owner in NBA, talks building sports & media empire from ground up, bond with Lebron James, Draymond Green, Anthony Davis, two-way contracts & Bronny James joins Lakers with his dad

"So many people want to be a part of the announcement and not a part of the investment."- Rich Paul, Founder of Klutch Sports Less than 24 hours away from the 2024 NBA Draft and all the talk is around a potential late round draft prospect, And why? Well because of the name on the back of his jersey. The sports world is currently divided over discussions about nepotism in basketball, sparked by Bronny James' announcement that he will enter the NBA draft after just one year at USC. In the latest episode of The Pivot, Ryan, Channing, and Fred sit down with Rich Paul, founder of Klutch Sports Group and super agent not just for big NBA stars and Lebron but Bronny too, as the guys go in depth for a very telling conversation from the source himself. They dive into Rich’s long-standing relationship with LeBron James, yet their separate approaches to navigating Bronny’s entry into the NBA draft and his future career. Rich is very clear, although Bronny is considered his nephew, he is treating him as he would any of the other athletes he represents, sharing the best case scenario, discussing various approaches and details what he actually means by declining two-way contracts. Rich has made a name for himself as a leader in sports business and transcending athlete representation by doing it his own way, which has raised the bar in the industry. Way before Rich Paul and Lebron met, Rich was hustling and grinding his way through life, from selling jerseys out of his car to becoming a prominent CEO in sports representation. He provides insights into his journey to become one of the most influential businessmen in sports, outgrowing his title of agent through his contributions in sports and entertainment growth over the years. Rich gives perspective into his philosophy as a man, agent and friend, emphasizing his consistent yet authentic approach in managing high-profile clients like LeBron James, Anthony Davis, and Draymond Green as well as his female clients in WNBA led by the league's MVP A'ja Wilson. Rich prides himself in building strong personal connections both within and outside the sports industry and talks about how he will not only stick by his athletes through their successes, but will also stand in the rain with them when things get tough as he demonstrated with Draymond Green recently. This mentality isn't a front, it's just who Rich Paul is, and is best described in his book, "Lucky Me" about changing the odds and going against the grain to reach success: "You don't have to finish where you start," which is why he has earned the trust of the best of the best in basketball and paved the way for it to be a business built on people skills and relationships and not by mandated college degrees. For continued viewing and listening of more Pivot content and unique conversations in sports and entertainment with A-list celebs, top athletes and leaders in business, Subscribe to catch new episodes of The Pivot released on YouTube every Tuesday at 12 p.m. ET and Fridays at 3:30 p.m. ET, with early release of audio available on major streaming platforms such as Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and Amazon Music. New York City, come meet us at Fanatics Fest NYC! We’ll be recording our podcast LIVE with some special guests, signing autographs, meeting fans, taking photos and more. We’re excited to be at FFNYC alongside some of the biggest names in sports such as Tom Brady, Derek Jeter, Kevin Durant, Sabrina Ionescu, and more. FFNYC is happening August 16 –18, 2004 at the Javits Center. Visit https://bit.ly/3R0f8hn to buy your tickets now! ”GAMBLING PROBLEM? Call 1-800-GAMBLER(CO/IL/KS/KY/MD/MI/NC/NJ/OH/PA/TN/VA/VT/WV), (800)-327-5050 or gamblinghelplinema.org (MA), Call (877)8-HOPENY or text HOPENY (467369) (NY), or Call 1-800-NEXT-STEP or text NEXTSTEP to 53342 (AZ), (888) 789-7777 orccpg.org (CT), or 1-800-BETS-OFF (IA), or 1-800-9-WITH-IT (IN), or www.mdgamblinghelp.org(MD), or morethanagame.nc.gov (NC), or1800gambler.net (WV) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:33Speaker 01

  What's up?

• 0:34Channing Crowder?

  Oh, Lord, we bout to match, man, goddamn. I gotta change.

• 0:40Channing Crowder?

  I got another shirt, bro.

• 0:43Speaker 01

  No, that's called twinning.

• 0:45Ryan Clark?

  What up, dog?

• 0:46Speaker 01

  Don't worry about it. That's the clutch effect. What's up? How you doing?

• 0:49Ryan Clark?

  I told you, you right here kissing tail.

• 0:51Channing Crowder?

  I was right kissing ass, and now we matching.

• 0:53Speaker 01

  That's the clutch effect, man.

• 0:54Ryan Clark?

  That's what you doing. You right here kissing tail.

• 0:56Channing Crowder?

  Should I change?

• 0:58Ryan Clark?

  I think you should wear the entire show. Nah.

• 1:00Channing Crowder?

  You might as well get the Spider-Man meme out the way.

• 1:03Ryan Clark?

  That's what you get.

• 1:03Channing Crowder?

  Don't get the Spider-Man meme out the way.

• 1:05Ryan Clark?

  He ain't finna represent you, no way.

• 1:07Speaker 01

  And by the way, this is not Clutch Sports Group, so you good. Whatever you want to do.

• 1:13Channing Crowder?

  I'ma stay right here. I'ma fool with my dude.

• 1:15Speaker 01

  He need you to represent him. That's the only way he'll get a check. Let me tell you something. I wish we was in football when y'all was playing. I definitely wish, too. Podcast aside, kind of watched all y'all play. I just think perspective is so different with... back then for you guys, right? And I think that you guys had very minimal options, and there was very... there wasn't as much information accessible today. I don't think representation thought about you guys past the gridiron, you know? And I think that being able to lock in with somebody that you, you know, not just see as a...

• 1:56Speaker 01

  Representation, but somebody who I respect on all and share, you know, experiences with, I think it's a beautiful thing that you guys probably missed out. You probably got it with your high school coach. You probably got it with your Pop Warner coach, or, you know, my, my, my principal at my high school, or my guidance counselor, things like that, my uncles. But it didn't exist in representation, because I think you guys were viewed a lot different. Right. So, that's just my two cents. I could be wrong, but that's just how I looked at it.

• 3:04Speaker 01

  Don't feel bad, because this ain't out.

• 3:06Channing Crowder?

  Are they not?

• 3:07Speaker 01

  No. This is not out. This is not for sale right now.

• 3:10Channing Crowder?

  I think I got it in a pop-up.

• 3:12Speaker 01

  In Detroit.

• 3:13Channing Crowder?

  At the draft.

• 3:14Speaker 01

  Yes, that's where you got it.

• 3:15Channing Crowder?

  Me and my wife got like four sweaters, four t-shirts, because we were showing love.

• 3:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, I appreciate that.

• 3:20Channing Crowder?

  Yeah, and they had, I got a thing that says Channing is clutch. They were putting personalized.

• 3:25Speaker 01

  Customization station, yeah. We're doing it at All-Star, too.

• 3:28Channing Crowder?

  Oh, okay, yeah, yeah.

• 3:30Speaker 01

  So this is, this is the brand. This is, you don't have to worry about it. Trust me. You're wearing the new stuff. Don't worry about it.

• 3:34Channing Crowder?

  So I'm exclusive right now?

• 3:35Speaker 01

  You're exclusive right now.

• 3:36Channing Crowder?

  I appreciate you, brother.

• 3:39Channing Crowder?

  I'm clutch, yeah. I thought I was gonna throw something, yeah.

• 3:42Fred Taylor?

  I was saying, I think it's perfect, you know, now, having guys like yourself. You guys want to teach the clients, you want to teach your players how to evolve and grow, get to the next step. And I think that, along with the information that you've gotten from our, our time, along with social media, guys are able to look at each other and not so much have it as a... I think back in the day, it was a big like rat racing competition. Where a lot of agents really, really hated on each other. Now, you can kind of leverage each other. Say, I see what y'all got going on over there, but we can eat together. Cause these deals are massive.

• 4:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, and you know, the thing about it is, I don't consider myself an agent. You know, believe it or not. I've kind of grown out of that space, even though I have agent capabilities. I don't consider myself, I don't, I don't, I don't spend my time every day getting up, thinking about, you know, which young player I'm going to go and get. Even though I'm in that space with my team. My day consists of everything from acquisitions to strategy across the entire company, across the entire ecosystem, to VC and, you know, beyond, right? Just today alone, I mean, I probably had a meeting every 30 minutes today.

• 5:08Speaker 01

  I don't know how many Zooms, this is my second sit down. And so, I've been blessed to be able to grow out of that space. But when I look at the other agents in the space, I mean, I think you and I bumped into each other in the airport one time and we talked last year's draft. When I look at the other agents in the space, exactly what you're saying. I try to get them to understand, like, don't be so naive to where you hide behind the paywall of the company that you work for, that you guys don't communicate, right? And then when you do communicate, make sure you have the respect for one another to when you go back into the field of competition, that it doesn't lead you to this belittling

• 5:52Speaker 01

  in a negative way towards one another. Because everybody's going to represent those that allow them to represent them, right? You gravitate to who you're like-minded, like interests, whatever draws you to that person, whether it's through the form of, I don't know, finance, or ideology, or whatever you want to call it, everybody's going to represent who's for them. So, that's the one thing for me in the industry, when, you know...

• 6:21Speaker 01

  When I was first getting in, it was difficult because like you're saying and like I'm saying that we're pushing the culture of the space to be, I didn't really have that, you know? I didn't have that at all. And I know it may upset some people when I said it on First Take, but it's real. Because like you said, the people prior to me, they never thought about building. They thought about the same way we thought about in our neighborhoods, flipping, you know? Everything was about a flip. Let's flip. But a flip don't compound. It does exactly what it says. It flips.

• 6:58Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 6:59Speaker 01

  Right? And so how do I turn a hundred dollars into two hundred dollars? No one's thinking about the idea that this hundred can turn into a million.

• 7:07Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 7:07Speaker 01

  Because you can't see that far. And you haven't experienced anyone do it prior to. And so, you know, you didn't have that example to go by. And so the seat I sit in today is one of many, many chairs, but I embrace it, man. I love it. I mean, we built a great group, great team. Yesterday, we announced our global football acquisition in partnership with a company called Roof that's in the UK and Spain and then Germany, headquartered in Germany with 150 footballers. I was at the Champions League final, which was an unbelievable experience. And so I sit here today, watching all you guys. I

• 7:50Speaker 01

  watched all you guys play in college, and I watched all you guys play on Sunday and had a profound respect. I think we hung out in Jacksonville in the Super Bowl. That was what, '06?

• 8:01Ryan Clark?

  About '04, '05.

• 8:03Speaker 01

  Yeah. I hung out with Fred too. You know, I'm really old and I'm young, but I've been around for so long. I've never lost my respect and my appreciation for guys such as yourself. And I'm so happy about the platform that you guys have now and what you built with the Pivot and things like that. And so for me, it was mandatory that I do this because...

• 8:24Ryan Clark?

  Thank you.

• 8:25Speaker 01

  You know, I never want to get to a place where I don't support, you know? It just, if I can do CNBC, or if I can do Bloomberg, I can do this, you know? Because I look at it all the same, in my opinion. And so I appreciate you guys having me on.

• 8:40Ryan Clark?

  Nah, man, thank you. The voice you are hearing and the person you are seeing is super not agent, Rich Paul.

• 8:48Ryan Clark?

  Welcome to the pivot of part of Fanatics. Fred Taylor, Channing Crowder, I'm Ryan Clark. Thank you, guys. I think that's, that's great, right? We all know that you're legitimately one of the, not just the best, one of the greatest to ever do it. And your track record and resume says that. I want to talk about something a little bit different. In your space, there hasn't been a ton of agents who are willing to talk about the fact that things are different because of the color of my skin. Also, too, there are a lot of guys who will get to the point that you have gotten to and put on airs about the places and the experiences that they come from. You wrote a book, and you were very honest in that book.

• 9:31Ryan Clark?

  Some of that book honestly reads like snowfall to me. It's Big Rich, and it's, and it's Peaches, and it's crack cocaine epidemic. It's all of these things. What gave you the courage to be so open about where you come from, knowing that that could be used against you?

• 9:50Speaker 01

  Having the will and the acceptance of sacrificing even myself and my position for the betterment of, you know, I think, the mass of our youth. And I think that oftentimes, you can get to a place to where you straight, but everybody else isn't, right? We've seen that before, and I didn't know how much I needed to write the book until I actually wrote the book. I had been carrying everything that you read in that book with me throughout the course of my day, throughout the course of my month and years. And no one ever saw anything different because I'm pretty much the same way every time you see me, up or down. That's how I was raised.

• 10:35Speaker 01

  But understanding that our youth and young people just today in general, right? Where's the substance today? It's not in our music. It's not in social media in its capacity because I think we invest more in likes and comments than actually what's the message, right? And so it's not there. I think the church isn't necessarily a place of foundation for us anymore, right? Grandma's gone, granddad's gone, so where do you get the sap from the tree at, right? When I grew up, you read the book, every which way I turned, I got the sap from the

• 11:19Speaker 01

  tree, whether it was positive or negative. I was taught in my community by a lot of older people, whether it was good, bad, or indifferent, they gave me the game. You know, I was very seasoned at a very young age. My knife was sharp at a very young age. And so when they came to me with the idea of writing a book, the first thing I said was, it can't be a puff piece. I don't want to talk about, you know, Klutch Sports Group, I don't want to talk about Rich Paul, the super agent that blew up and down, you know, the CEO and all those accolades. I don't want to talk about who my girlfriend is.

• 12:03Speaker 01

  I didn't want to talk about any of that. I wanted to give people, black people, white people, red people, whatever color it may be, that come from the place of discouragement, poverty, lack thereof, resources, and experience, opportunity. I wanted to give them an understanding that you don't have to finish where you start. That was very important to me. When we finally got it.

• 12:37Speaker 01

  It's what came out, but at the very end, when I read the book, I said it was something missing.

• 12:44Speaker 01

  And we went back, and that's when I added the rules. Because I felt like, and just taking myself back to being a young kid, if you do a word problem, word problems was harder to do than actual numbers because it caused you to have to think more.

• 13:01Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 13:01Speaker 01

  And most kids are discouraged by reading because it's a boring thing to them. It's like running on a treadmill versus running down the street.

• 13:10Ryan Clark?

  And it's also the difficulty and process of comprehending.

• 13:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, comprehending the read. That's why I wanted to make it a pretty easy and seamless read as well. But I was like, damn, I was talking to Jesse Washington, who was incredible and really leading the way in helping me write this book. And I was like, we need to, you know, maybe have a rule, something that you can take away from each chapter to really, but that encompasses everything in that chapter. So when iron your clothes, as much as it's about actually ironing your clothes, that's actually about building great habits and having consistency and having detail, right? And so that's what that was about.

• 13:53Channing Crowder?

  You already made it when you wrote the book.

• 13:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, very much so.

• 13:57Channing Crowder?

  You know what I'm saying? Like, if people look at his resume, he already made it.

• 14:03Channing Crowder?

  What's the positives and negatives of trying to tell the world that? Because as you were talking about, you know what I'm saying, try to empower people, but there can be some drawback for people knowing where you came from, but also encouragement for the future.

• 14:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I mean, you know, I don't have nothing to hide, man. At the end of the day, it's never going to be nothing fake with me. That's not who I am. And neither one of you can ever say you saw me and I was a different person, no matter who I was with, no matter where I was at, no matter what was going on. And again, my community wouldn't allow that, up or down, didn't matter. And so I didn't even give a shit about what no other agency had to say, what no, you know, they were, they gonna say it anyway, right? I'd rather tell my story. And so therefore, in rooms where they being lied to, you know, now you can't lie no more, because it's all out there. You get what I'm saying? But more importantly, it was about the youth, right? Look at what's happening, you know? Kids are dying younger than ever.

• 15:00Speaker 01

  You know, graduation rates are down more than ever. The disrespect and the lack thereof, um, intelligence is through the roof, right? And everybody want to be lit. Everybody want to be seen, you know, and everybody want to have validation from those that you don't even need to be seeking validation from. There's no credibility in that. And so where they getting the game from? Where, you know, you tell me. I can't see it and I deal with it every day and I'm still in tune. And it was the same way when I was on the cover of Sports Illustrated. I mean, I would never would have been on that cover if it wasn't for my daughter.

• 15:43Speaker 01

  My daughter is the one that said to me, you know, Dad, people, you know, the youth, we view, like they're not necessarily reading the article, but that picture of you was, you know, she, she helped me actually get out there on Instagram more and she helped me. And so that led to me being okay with doing the cover because I passed on it twice and not knowing that I would be on the cover solo. They, it was more of me being on the cover with other people. And I was like, no, I don't want to do that, which took away from me being on the cover. And then it just so happened that I end up being on the cover by myself. But that wasn't most of it about me. It was about me being an example to those. So now as a kid, even if you don't read the article, you see.

• 16:27Speaker 01

  And those kids in my neighborhood, they know my family, they know where I came from, they know all the things I've been through. And so, you know, you are who you are. There's no, there's no fake in that. And I don't, I don't have anything to hide, you know? Today, when I, when I go in my neighborhood, I'm not doing nothing. I'm, I'm, if I go through there, I'm going through there to, to take it all in and see people I haven't seen in forever. Check on my grandparents when they was alive and my Uncle Charlie who just died, he was 101 years old. Um, but, but that's about it, man. I go to work and I go home, pretty much.

• 17:01Fred Taylor?

  RC, you were talking about Lucky Me, uh, the memoir. So I haven't read it yet, but I will get to it. But until then, if there is one nugget, like just one complete takeaway, if you can share with everybody that's going to watch this, what would that one thing be?

• 17:18Speaker 01

  I talk about not succumbing to your environment. I think oftentimes we make an excuse of our surroundings and our environment and things of that nature. And I think it's easier for, just like it was taking a multiple choice test, easier for you to go abackadaback than it is for you to actually read and try to figure out the answer. And I think nowadays, more than ever, people want to skip steps. Everybody wants to skip steps. I mean, you know, we built a business, we started with two people, we got 120 people that work and another, no, well, now more than that. We've probably got 140 staff members and 400, 500 clients, 600 clients.

• 18:02Speaker 01

  So when you think about that, and this is a kid that, I didn't graduate college, you know? My mom struggled with drug abuse, my dad had another family, you know, my brother was a protector of mine, and my uncles, and, you know, I had all the same issues that a lot of young kids have, where you're straddling the fence and trying to figure out direction in life because it don't come with a Waze app, right? And I've been extremely blessed to be in the position I'm in, and I haven't changed, you know? I haven't changed one bit. And if I have changed, it's been in areas where I needed to mature and change for the better.

• 18:44Speaker 01

  I think that's the one thing that, when you do have success, and no matter how much success you have, I think it's important to have perspective. And perspective allows you to have clarity, and then when you have clarity, clarity gives you the wealthiest thing you can have, and that's a wealthy mind. You know, I know people focus on the pockets, but it's really mental wealth that's the wealthiest you can be. I've got a lot of billionaire friends that want to have that mental wealth, you know? It's just how I was raised, really, and it allowed me, I came to Jacksonville, the areas I was in in Jacksonville, it was love, you know? No matter where I go, I go to every city, it's love.

• 19:27Speaker 01

  When I walk down the street, it's love because people see myself in them. And that's something that is bigger than anything for me. So it would be just that, like, don't ever succumb to your environment because...

• 19:41Speaker 01

  I took things that seemed to be of detriment in that environment and turned them into assets in this environment because I know when I'm in those boardrooms, very few people has been through what I've been through.

• 19:55Fred Taylor?

  Yeah.

• 19:56Speaker 01

  I know that for a fact and not making me any better than them in any shape, form, or fashion, but at this point, you know, there's not a situation I can be in that's not Disney World at this point, you know?

• 20:12Fred Taylor?

  I can speak, I can speak to that.

• 20:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:14Fred Taylor?

  I can speak to that, you know, having known a lot of the same guys you know from Jacksonville.

• 20:18Speaker 01

  Hundred percent.

• 20:18Fred Taylor?

  I can speak to those trenches and kind of where you come from even without having read the book yet, but you sold jerseys, the vintage jerseys, everyone I think should know that story. You were a hustler. Do you still have the same,

• 20:36Fred Taylor?

  the same acumen and the same drive if that, if that happenstance encounter didn't happen in the airport where you met LeBron?

• 20:45Speaker 01

  The jersey thing for me was something that I discovered through my love of fashion. You know, I was a young man shooting to New York for the day, shopping on Fifth Avenue, then I may shoot up to Harlem and shop there, you know, just because you can get different things.

• 21:02Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 21:02Speaker 01

  Shoot up to Philly, go to the Polo Mansion because they had certain buyers, different buyers had certain leathers. You know, me and my crew was always like that and so it was just something in me as a kid. I threw the foundation of my mom and dad who loved the dress and things like that and then I always hung out with older people and so I bought my first house when I was 19 years old. You know, and when I bought that home.

• 21:32Speaker 01

  The first thing I was shown was where the value was at, kitchen and bathroom. And then my man took me to the marble place and taught me the difference between marble and granite and things of that nature. And so I've always just been cerebral from that perspective. But I had a record deal at Atlantic in 06, you know, where I had producers and artists signed to me. I just always had that confidence to do something. And so I was definitely gonna, the same drive, and don't get me wrong, like, I'm blessed and thankful for the opportunity that came in front of me.

• 22:10Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 22:11Speaker 01

  But I wasn't no dummy by a long shot. I just, I just was a hustler, you know? And I was a hustler that hustled with integrity, which allowed me to make it out of them backyards and out of the side of them houses, them abandoned buildings and things like that, that I, and them alleys that I made it out of and, you know, and be able to weave in and out of traffic in the neighborhoods that was probably not aligned, I'll say, with where I was from. And so I'm appreciative of that, too.

• 22:41Fred Taylor?

  Yeah, Mike Rubin was just on the Greatness Podcast with Lewis Howes.

• 22:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, I did Lewis's podcast.

• 22:46Fred Taylor?

  Yeah, so he asked him, how do you create more luck? And Mike said, it's about being a better person. And what you just said right here, like, you said you, you were, had integrity.

• 22:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:00Fred Taylor?

  A hustler with integrity. So that eventually good things with.

• 23:03Speaker 01

  Oh, absolutely.

• 23:04Fred Taylor?

  Going forward.

• 23:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, that helps you get through.

• 23:06Ryan Clark?

  With what your profile is, I feel like you're asked different things than most agents. I don't necessarily know if I pay attention to you more than I do other agents because of the respect I have for you, but also too, when you do and complete the deals that you have, when you represent the sort of people that you do, you're going to attract more attention. A lot of times, that attention makes. People who could be in your position, only thinking about their position, not speak to truth. Recently, when it came to Bronny James, you spoke to truth about nepotism. You know, and it's something that we spoke about on this show as well.

• 23:48Ryan Clark?

  You've also mentioned many times that you've done things that if your skin was a different color, you'd be considered a genius. Right? I think you mentioned the Anthony Davis deal in getting him to Los Angeles, getting him the max contract. That was if somebody else does that, if somebody else comes out and publicly says they want to trade, even if they get fined, we'd be like, oh, look how, look how he manipulated the league, how he worked.

• 24:11Speaker 01

  We line up down the street for that person. We line up down the street for that person.

• 24:15Ryan Clark?

  Yes, exactly. So, how have you been able to transcend that and become as successful and as accepted as you are while remaining authentic?

• 24:27Speaker 01

  First of all, like, I think people always take nepotism in a very negative way. You know, and if you know me, I'm never trying to shine a negative light. What I was explaining in that article was, let's not be...

• 24:44Ryan Clark?

  Hypocritical.

• 24:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, because, you know, nothing but respect for Jim and Casey. And I was explaining that they had positive influences, whether that was through experience, whether that was through a business that was built. Obviously, Casey built his own business, but having the influence and the experience to have a, someone that persevered in the industry and that professionally positioned themselves in the industry, that you can look back and understand exactly how they did things and the respect that came with that. So now, when I had the opportunity, or he had the opportunity to build his own business,

• 25:30Speaker 01

  then he knew exactly what to do. Same thing with Jim, his dad, and he's enhanced a business from that perspective. And so I was saying that now in LeBron's case, as it pertains to his son, it's actually no different. We look at it different because we're only looking at the talent, but he built the business through the lens of talent, which we know is extremely hard to do, and that that allowed his son to have a positive...

• 25:59Speaker 01

  Perception and a better opportunity for him. And in this case, actually, has been a lot of negative criticism. Yes. Because of that, but it only happens to the athlete. Right. It doesn't happen to the businessman, which is I was trying to explain. And it wasn't a negative thing. It was actually a positive thing. But you know, in today's world, people take that and equate it with the Knicks and take this. No, it's not about that. You know, I know these people. Casey and I are on the board of the LACMA together. We see each other all the time and we have a community conversation. He owns a company. I own a company. We both lead companies. There's nothing but a respect and a friendship there.

• 26:41Speaker 01

  As well as if I was to see Jim. You know, I've talked to him in conversations and when I go to the Garden, you know, I have that relationship, so it wasn't a negative thing. And I was using that as an example that we don't have those examples consistently. You know, I've had time to spend, I've had the honor of spending time with Junior Bridgman. His family is going to benefit from what he built. What they've been built. Okay? That's not negative. That's a positive thing. But as it pertained to the black man, in most cases, there's been far too many times

• 27:18Speaker 01

  that when a young black man needed that hand, needed that, you know, sounding board, needed that opportunity, there was nothing built, right? It was born, have a child, grow to a man, have a child, die or go to jail. Then now your child is, you know, grow up, grow to a man, have a child, die, go to jail. And that thing, so now we're starting over. I buried my cousin Buddy in 2008. He was 19 years old. I just buried his son. He was seventeen years old. You get what I'm saying? So you can't talk to me about something that I'm connected to. I'm still there.

• 28:03Speaker 01

  I'm still there, even though I'm on the board of UTA. You know, I'm, I'm, I built an unbelievable company. I own several different other companies I'm part of and on several different boards, but I'm still there. I'm not disconnected. And if you know me, I'm a vegan when it comes to negativity. So anything that I talk about, I'm shining a positive light on it from there. Or I'm giving you clarity to help better understand the situation for you to move forward in. And so it wasn't a negative thing to talk about there. And I think I was able to, I've been able to transcend because people know who I am at, at my core, right?

• 28:44Speaker 01

  And there's no, there's no spite or no, or no, um, even when I push back on things, whether it's about LeBron or any of my other clients, right? People only hear about the stuff where I push back on LeBron. But it's about every client. I'm the same way about, about every client, no matter who it may be. Because that's, again, that's just how I was raised.

• 29:05Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 29:06Speaker 01

  And so I'm also not gonna bite my tongue or not be authentic to who I am just because I've had some success or the position I'm in. That, again, that don't sit right to me either, so.

• 29:20Speaker 00

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• 29:50Ryan Clark?

  I think you said that very eloquently, but I one hundred percent understood what you said when you said it. And I didn't think, I didn't think it was negative, but you mentioned how... Few opportunities African Americans and minorities have had at quote unquote nepotism. It's not only that, it's the negative way in which it was looked at. When you think about all of these coaches in the NFL, right? And you're saying, "He came from the Shanahan tree." Or, "This guy came from Andy Reid." Right, you have all of these coaches who, it's not only family members, it's friends and they have these connections. And that's always been okay, that's always been okay in business as well.

• 30:32Ryan Clark?

  And just generationally, with the history of racism, we haven't been allowed generational wealth. We haven't been allowed generational positioning, which LeBron has earned.

• 30:44Speaker 01

  He's earned that. And when you talk about positioning, that's the most important thing. You know, I talk to, you know, people within my company and I use Coach Pop as a positive example. And I say to these guys, "Hey, if I can, if I can do what he did for his coaching staff, for you, and I look up and you are in the front office of this team, and you in the front office of this team." And you, like, to me, that's a positive thing. That's not shiny, that's not a negative thing, that's a very positive thing. And that's a positive example that I have to be able to equate that to. But, there's no black coach that I can equate that to, right?

• 31:27Speaker 01

  And Coach Pop, of all people, has been supportive of everything for us and just for right, period. Color don't matter, it's what's right with him. And so, I've always appreciated that and respected him for that. But again, the point I was making was, where's the example? If we were looking for one from a black perspective, it's not there. Why? Because they're not able to coach through their mistakes, right? And some of it is, also, you get the opportunity and don't value it just as much. You understand what I'm saying? And so, again, we have to have accountability. And I'm not saying it's always one way or it's always the other way.

• 32:11Speaker 01

  But it was just one of those things where... You know, at the end of the day, I say what I feel. Yeah. And, you know, this is my nephew that I'm talking about, by the way. And I know I've been with his dad forever. And I know the passion that he's had. I know the integrity that he's had. I know the care that he's had. And I know the open door that he's had. But, but see, I think people don't understand this too. Again, man, there's been so many things that, that we set out to do and have done it, right? When you say we, you're talking about you and LeBron or just? And Maverick and Randy and, and then, and then also just as individuals, you know?

• 32:53Speaker 01

  You don't know an athlete who has two guys that started with him that broke away, did their own thing, that he considered, he continued to support and that did that, right? And positioned themselves as such. And I'm, and that's not a flex. No. I'm just being honest. But in addition to that, right? We've also had several conversations to where we were inclusive. And you know what happened? Nah, we're gonna do our own thing. Or that's y'all thing. And we're gonna do this thing, right? But then when you see a Jay-Z and a Michael Rubin do business together, now you wanna do business together. Well, it's too, you know, it's kinda too late in, in that regard, right?

• 33:35Speaker 01

  We missed the boat in terms of what we could, the momentum we could have had and things we could have done, you know, already. Or if you see, you know, no one says anything when you, when we saw Spielberg and Geffen and Katzenberg connect, right? They were, that was smart of them. And so, I just think that, you know, the, the, the open-mindedness, we need more of. I think the competitiveness, yeah, compete, compete on the field.

• 34:09Speaker 01

  But there's an opportunity to collaborate and communicate in the boardroom that comes with strategy, that comes with intent, that comes with, you know, some type of understanding of the business that you're trying to be in and where that's going and how do you formulate a team to help you become successful? I mean, everyone has brought you guys investments. You got to lean on somebody to help you understand, you know, the risk of that investment. And I think there's so many people that want to be a part of the announcement and not a part of the investment, right? I'm pretty sure you guys have went through that.

• 34:51Ryan Clark?

  That's a word.

• 34:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:53Ryan Clark?

  That's a word. That's a word, dawg.

• 34:55Speaker 01

  It's just true. And so, you know, and that's why I try to say to these guys in my space, in the representation space, I'm not competing with you, bro. Like, there's no competition here. There really isn't, right? Like, you have to have a bigger mindset. If you're competing with me about who's sitting in the green room, you lost. Because I'm playing a totally different game, brother. I can guarantee you that. That ain't my complete competition. And so, it's allowed me to transcend. It's allowed me to be on boards. It's allowed me to be in rooms to where your boss respects me because we are aligned. It's when I'm at those dinners, when I'm in those rooms,

• 35:40Speaker 01

  I'm in those rooms not because I consider myself a celebrity. I never wanted my picture snapped at nothing unless I was taking it home with me out the Polaroid. That ain't what we did. You feel what I'm saying?

• 35:51Ryan Clark?

  Correct.

• 35:52Speaker 01

  But at the end of the day, I have a responsibility to at least leave the door open, to at least get the information and get the idea to bring back to the nest. It's up to you if you want to eat or not.

• 36:07Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 36:08Speaker 01

  You feel what I'm saying? Because in the world that I live in, I'm around all of this to where some days, I'm leading the charge. The other days, I'm a backseat driver. And I don't mind playing out of the row. I'm perfectly fine playing, playing out of the. Right now, today, I'm perfectly fine playing out of the row. If you said to me, yo, Rich, I got something for you, man, but it's going, you know, you just, you just gotta participate. But I don't need, you know, prioritizing nothing. If it makes sense.

• 36:40Speaker 01

  Cause I got him back in my uncle's car and just sat there, cause I didn't want him to know I was there. Cause I'm just trying to ride with him. That's it, so.

• 36:48Channing Crowder?

  To that point, bro, and talk about nepotism. I'll say, and it's a long time, but damn near 20 years ago, you was Bron's homeboy.

• 36:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:56Channing Crowder?

  You know what I'm saying, man?

• 36:57Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 36:58Channing Crowder?

  So to be, to be Bron's homeboy and then to build what you built and just the whole, what we just talked about nepotism and all that. What did it take for you to jump out of being Bron's homeboy? Where if you say, Rich Paul, now, nigga, your picture pop up. Before you was the dude riding with Bron, like.

• 37:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:16Channing Crowder?

  How did you overcome that? Cause everybody that, everybody that make it got a crew.

• 37:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:22Channing Crowder?

  But their crew ain't do what you did, they do what Maverick did, they didn't jump out like that.

• 37:27Speaker 01

  Again, play your position, starring your role to help the team win. That was my mentality because I already knew who I was. So when it came time for me to miss the section or to miss the boat trip or to miss the. I didn't mind doing any of that because I already know who I am. You get what I'm saying? And so there's a, there was a profound respect for, you know, my position I was in. Um, and I didn't have no position to start, but you gotta remember, when I met him, I was a homeowner already.

• 38:04Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 38:05Speaker 01

  I've traveled, I had Rolexes, I had Corrs. I remember I bought this watch, this Corr watch I had back in the day and, you know, we was going to eat and my friends, you know, was getting caviar and having Dom Pizz, we was doing this as teenagers, bro. Going to Jazz Fest with Big Block, Maury Gator's on and Versace's on, we were doing this at 16, 17 years of age. So when we got under the lights, the lights wasn't that bright for me because I had been here already. But, but.

• 38:38Speaker 01

  In this case, I can't show that and I'm not trying to step in front of that, right? I wanna play a role, I'm gonna play my role. And so, I understood how to sit back and do what was being asked of me. But, I was off the payroll in 2006. And, we used to talk about it. And, I think, the reason why I was able to do what I was able to do and obviously Maverick was able to do what he was able to do. And, the one thing I can say about us, we've always shared it. We've always shared it. But, what sports does and what these people around athletes do.

• 39:22Speaker 01

  They drive a wedge, they don't want you to communicate, they don't want you to congregate. They don't want that. That's the last thing they want. I seen that when I, when I took my step and people fell for it. You know, how you go from here to here off of what somebody said that you don't even know these people? You don't know these people? We together all the time. You, you get what I'm saying? But, it's the conversation of, "Yeah, but now it's gonna be about you." And we go, and you don't want that and, you know, this is turnkey and that ain't turnkey. Well, well, this house wasn't built, it was just a piece of land until you actually built it. So, don't talk to me about turnkey, talk to me about your ability and your want to help me build.

• 40:07Speaker 01

  And then it will become turnkey, it'd be a bunch of keys, we own the street. You know what I'm saying? That's how I think. But, you know, to each his own and so, I, I had no, I had, and then the last point I'll make on that, what you were saying. It all came down to my respect for him. See, when you get around any one of you guys, you guys don't owe us nothing. I was, I'm not his brother, I'm not his blood brother, I'm just not, you know what I'm saying? We don't have the same mother, I respect his mom as if she was mine. And she treat me as if I was her son. You get what I'm saying?

• 40:43Speaker 01

  But, I can't expect for him, I couldn't at that time and I wasn't going anyway, but just, I, I say this to all guys around athletes. They don't owe you nothing. Because here's what happened. You go in the league, two years in, you three years in. Maybe you get to four years in. But then, maybe you decide to have a family. The moment you decide to have a family, you're no longer important. I'm no longer important. The only thing that's important is your family. Right. So now, ain't no need of you spending that extra thousand, fifteen hundred on my flight. That got to go to the kids. Yeah. You get what I'm saying? And so it's about having perspective.

• 41:28Speaker 01

  I had a profound respect for him to that. I don't want to be carried along the way. You know what I'm saying? I'm just looking for an opportunity because there's scarcity in opportunities where we come from. There ain't no, there's a scarcity in opportunities. We the flyest and you know this and you know that. But then they hit you with, but you don't have any credentials. Yeah. So, yeah, I didn't graduate college, but I got all the common sense in the world. But that's not helping me get through the door because I don't have no paperwork. But I just needed a platform. Once I was given a platform and a stage, and then that helped me break down the doors.

• 42:13Speaker 01

  Once I get inside the room, I can make it from there. How'd you feel about the Rich Paul rules? Same way I, you know, felt about everything else. Got to hear with that. You know what I'm saying? But, but at the end of the day, I had to pay attention to it because again, I'm in position already, but it's about those that's coming behind me. So for me to sit here and not highlight that, or not say something about it, or even do something about it, then that means I'm only worried about me. And so, when we wrote the op-ed in The Athletic, I talked about it. Like, I work in the people business. They brainwash us to think, oh, you gotta have a degree.

• 42:56Speaker 01

  And by the way, it's too many agents today, by the way. It's too many. But, I can also blame myself because it used to be this gray...

• 43:09Speaker 01

  Or this cloud over representation. And I don't like to use the word agent. But what agents was back in the day was shady. They was, you know, it was kind of like a little greasy a little bit, right? Slippery. Sneak all the stuff. Yeah, but I've made it to where representing an athlete is a cool thing today, right? It's, oh, man, you can sit on the floor and you can do this and you can do that and you can have this. And, and that's great. We gotta take the bitter with the sweet when it come to that. I think it's too many, right? Because now with NIL and all these different things, you know, people don't know and they're just going for, well, they say they gonna, I'm gonna be their only person.

• 43:50Speaker 01

  Well, that don't help because if you my only guy, then that means I have no ability to No leverage. Gather information. I got, I got no experience. I got no leverage at nothing. I got no relationships. So now I'm experimenting, right? And that's not to say that, not to give somebody an opportunity, but there's a way to evaluate if that opportunity is, is worthy of the, of the give. And that rule really struck a chord. Once I started to really think about it and I'm saying like, a higher education for me, when I'm trying to work in the people business, hmm, if I go to a certain university, they're not teaching me about people, people.

• 44:32Speaker 01

  You know, the hypothesis or the, or the writing a paper in the MLA, MLA format. That's not teaching me about people. Having a final in science or whatever the case may be, it's not teaching me about people. I can see if you said, okay, we have this program for representation or even for athletes, that you only gonna take the classes that apply to where you're going. So now that's a financial literacy class. Right. That's an investment class. Right. That's a real estate class, you know? That's a sex education class, you know? Most people don't know about, you know, a woman's ovulation period and all the things that you have to learn. You don't know these things as a kid.

• 45:16Speaker 01

  You got to learn these things. Really based upon your partner. It just really bothered me, man, as well as a number of other things. But you just got to continue to do what you do and to persevere. But, um, yeah, the Rich Paul rule, that was. And by the way, they named it that. I didn't name it that. The industry, you know, the internet named it that. Because they were highlighting the fact that you had to have a college degree. And they knew I did not.

• 45:44Speaker 00

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• 46:13Fred Taylor?

  You, I think you've earned, um, you know, you've earned that. You know, pretty much like you've earned the title, you're the most powerful non-player, non-owner in the sport. What does it even mean for the future of the, you know, the game for the players going forward? Will we see like half a million dollar deals?

• 46:35Speaker 01

  Half a billion.

• 46:36Fred Taylor?

  Half a billion.

• 46:37Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 46:37Fred Taylor?

  I'm sorry, half a billion dollar deals.

• 46:38Speaker 01

  Well, yeah, the business around our sport and what that does to the BRI is definitely growing. I mean, I can tell you that right now. I mean, Anthony Davis last year, if his deal was like 76 million dollars.

• 46:50Fred Taylor?

  Jesus.

• 46:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, for one year.

• 46:52Fred Taylor?

  Damn, I should have been told.

• 46:54Speaker 01

  You know, De'Aaron Fox, you know, will probably do the same. I mean, look, Jason and Luca, Jason Tatum and Luca. We've seen Jaylen Brown sign up on one of the biggest, the biggest deal last year. And so when you talk about the growth of our game and where it's going and, and just through the lens of betting and through just, again, you look at the franchises and how their values grew. We thought 2 billion was a lot of money and now look what's happening, right? And when you talk about that share, that 51 to 49 pertains to owners and players. It's one of those things where it's going, it's going to where we know it's supposed to go and we want it to go, but.

• 47:40Speaker 01

  I think you'll see an environment to where you have the half and the half nots. You're taking out the middle class.

• 47:46Ryan Clark?

  Started with football, once football got to that point.

• 47:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, with these deals and so we're gonna have to adjust to that. The players are gonna have to adjust to that. I think you started to see a shorter leash on, you know, development of guys and guys understanding, you know, being able to digest information. You're not getting those same, you know, consecutive bites at the apple. Teams are moving on a lot faster.

• 48:14Ryan Clark?

  Hell, yeah.

• 48:15Speaker 01

  You see the veterans are no longer being, you know, you used to have two vets at the end of the bench. Now you gotta hope to have one, right? There's certain organizations like a Miami, like what Sam Presti did with Nick Collison in Oklahoma.

• 48:30Speaker 01

  You know, there's certain organizations, you know, Cleveland actually did it this year with Tristan. There's certain organizations that are allowing to have at least one vet, which I think is great, I think is necessary, but for every, you know, get, there's something you have to give up.

• 48:48Fred Taylor?

  The growth of the game, LeBron is closer to the end of his career than the beginning. Has he expressed interest in participating in ownership?

• 48:56Speaker 01

  I think he's shown, I mean, he said that publicly, obviously. I don't wanna be an owner, just to be clear. I know people always think like, everything he do, we could just go throw.

• 49:06Ryan Clark?

  Yo, Twins!

• 49:06Speaker 01

  Throw me, yeah, throw me in it. No, no, yeah, and I think you'll see a lot more of the athletes, you know, wanna be in the ownership space. I think it's a slippery slope, I really do. I know in our collective bargaining agreement that just passed, you know, they allowed the players to participate in ownership. And that's a slippery slope, man, because I think it's important to really identify deal flow, right? And participate there. And there's a thing called circumvention of the cap, which was a rule years ago when contracts were very low to where, you know, I may be signing you for 300 grand, but I'm

• 49:50Speaker 01

  only, I only have 250 and I put a Cadillac in your driveway to make it even, you know? That would be circumvention of the cap, so to speak, but...

• 50:01Speaker 01

  You can't do that. Like, you know, you're not taking it, you're not gonna be a $50 million a year player and take 25. Like, that's just not happening. So I think because of that, there's an ability to change that rule and then allow for players to be positioned a little bit different to where they're able to compound the wealth that they actually generate.

• 50:24Ryan Clark?

  You've been around it a long time and you say, and I've watched you represent every player to the best of your ability, not only the player, but the person. You said earlier that Bronny's your nephew.

• 50:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:40Ryan Clark?

  There is an inherent difference in the responsibility you have to feel when representing someone that's that close to you. You've announced that he will be staying in the draft. I think that was May 29.

• 50:55Speaker 01

  A couple weeks ago, yeah.

• 50:57Ryan Clark?

  As you proceed forward, how much pressure do you feel in representing him?

• 51:02Speaker 01

  The way I approach it, RC, is the same with anything, right? And I know people are like, "Well, that can't be true," but it is. Like, I've showed this example several times. Last year, Chris Livingston was the last pick in the draft. He got guaranteed money. That's never happened before. He's not my nephew. Still care for him the same. When it came to AD, again, the reason why I went on the record is because he's not confrontational. And so although he was unhappy, he's coming to work every day with a smile.

• 51:42Speaker 01

  So I had to depend on the front office to say to the owner the truth. I don't know if they're telling the truth or not, right? All I know is... Things ain't going nowhere. And so, I had to step out in, in front of that, you know. I've had clients that have been in situations that, you know, I'm not backing down from it, right? If I can stand there with you at the draft, we take the picture, it's all good. Then I gotta send the rain too. Without an umbrella, we both just gotta be able to get soaking wet. As in the pause, because I know Cam will call me on all that.

• 52:21Ryan Clark?

  I'm 44, man, I ain't tripping on that.

• 52:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, right. But you know what I'm saying, like, you need that and you, and, and so I just, it's just like, man, like, if I can look you in the eye and we have a conversation, and you say to me, "Hey, I'm allowing you to represent me", and I'm saying to you, "Look, it's gonna be a roller coaster. It's gonna be ups, downs, we're gonna, you know, we're gonna celebrate the wins and the losses the same way. We're gonna hold each other accountable." At the end of the day, it's like, if you have that rapport with somebody, then there is no pressure on me because I know he know, or whomever knows, like, I'm going hard for them and we going hard for them as a company.

• 53:01Ryan Clark?

  Rich, in that, how much does, when you come out and say, "Okay, we're not accepting two-way deals"?

• 53:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, but do you know what that means?

• 53:08Ryan Clark?

  The, the two-way deals in the country?

• 53:10Speaker 01

  But most people don't know, most, most people don't know what that means, though. You understand what I'm saying? Like, the reason why I said that, and again, Brandon Boston went 51. He did not get a two-way deal, right? Taylor Horton Tucker went 46. He did not get a two-way deal. What happens is, and this is why we have too many agents. Most agents, they want to just get their client's name called. There's a pressure that comes with the draft. And so, when you sitting there and you got 30, a family of 30 people, and that team is calling your phone, and that team is saying, "Oh, we'll take them right now", but it's gotta be a two-way. In that moment, there's...

• 53:56Speaker 01

  Pizza and wings and beer and, you know, sell balloons and all this and family. And it's like, the kid is there and, you know, he's like, "Man, only thing these kids want is to do what? Hear their name called, right? They don't even understand what that means, the aftermath of that. They're not understanding what that means. It's our job to protect them. And I'm willing to go. For Brandon Boston, I was like, "Man, let's go undrafted. Man, I want to hear my name called, bro." You get what I'm saying? But so now I got to balance out the two. I have a profound respect for the GMs and their front offices, and they have a profound respect for me.

• 54:42Speaker 01

  All of them, despite what anybody may, you know, fictitiously conjure up in these, you know, recruiting meetings with families or whatever. But at the end of the day, you understand it. And the reason why I'm saying that is, that's not a Buffalo thing. That's an understanding that if they make an investment, you have an opportunity to have a longer tenure. Yes. Okay? Yep. And so now, that team may, is willing to roster that player. That doesn't mean you're not going to play in the G League at all. No, I support the G League, by the way. The G League is about development.

• 55:25Speaker 01

  Dejounte Murray, 29th pick for the Spurs, went to the G League. Corey Joseph, 29th pick for the Spurs, went to the G League. Taylor Horton Tucker played in the G League. Brandon Boston played in the G League. Do you know, there was, Chris Livingston last year played in the G League. Noah Clowney played in the G League this year. Do you know that if you look at the 2016 draft, and that's why everybody go crazy about the draft and having first-rounders and all that? It's all bullshit. But do you know about...

• 55:57Speaker 01

  Correct me if I'm wrong. It's about 22, 18 to 22 first-round picks that are no longer in the NBA.

• 56:08Channing Crowder?

  Yup.

• 56:08Speaker 01

  And I'm talking about starting early. This ain't like, you know, this is like 4, 5,

• 56:14Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 56:14Speaker 01

  8, 9, 10, 11, 16, 17, 18, like, it's crazy, right? So, we put all this into the draft and we sell this to our kids with them not understanding the importance of, listen, summer league has to look like this, going to training camp has to look like this, your attitude, your approach, your willingness to be coached, you don't get an optional day. Oh, it was optional. It's not, nothing's optional when you barely in.

• 56:47Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 56:48Speaker 01

  There's no optional.

• 56:49Channing Crowder?

  That's real.

• 56:50Speaker 01

  The optional guys, you know, are All-NBA, perennial All-Star, max guys. Those are optional guys.

• 56:58Channing Crowder?

  Voluntary workouts.

• 57:00Speaker 01

  You get what I'm saying? There's no voluntary, there's mandat-, you're always mandatory until you, you know.

• 57:07Channing Crowder?

  Well, bro, to that point about the draft, man, Bronny's not a normal draft pick because of who his dad is.

• 57:14Speaker 01

  No.

• 57:14Channing Crowder?

  He's not. And in that direction of representing him and knowing that his draft is gonna have a lot to do, people are saying, I want to ask you, are gonna have to do what his dad does and all that stuff, like, you represented, you brought a bunch of dudes you represent, and we know you're a respected agent, but Bronny James is different than everybody else that's ever been drafted first round. You talking about AD, you talking about Bron.

• 57:42Speaker 01

  But, but, Chad, let me tell you something. That's not my approach. When I meet with Bronny, I'm meeting with Bronny. I'm not meeting with Bronny and Bron. Those are two separate clients. Those are two separate clients. I owe that respect to Bronny. He's the only one that went through what he went through and fought back. He went through that. Now, his parents went through it alongside of him, but it actually happened to him, right? It's his dream, it's his passion, it's his want. He don't have to go to the NBA. He don't have to, I mean, you know.

• 58:13Channing Crowder?

  He got bread already.

• 58:14Speaker 01

  His father had to. He don't have to. He wants to because he have a love for the game. But, we have Rob Dillingham.

• 58:24Speaker 01

  Right? Rob Dillingham, best guard in the draft. We have Terrence Shannon, we have, you know, Justin Edwards. You know, we have Urich, we have also, we have KJ Simpson. We have, you know, and all these guys will tell you, I approach it the same way. And let me tell you something. Bronny does not act any different than any of those guys in that gym. And Rob, who's actually could, because he, he.

• 58:55Ryan Clark?

  He gone.

• 58:55Speaker 01

  He off the board, right away, right? For us, he's gonna be our first guy off the board. He doesn't act, we don't do that, man. There's no tiptoeing, there's no, you know, I don't walk around with an earpiece in my ear telling the guy how great they is all fucking day. That shit is not life, that's not real. You get what I'm saying? And it's because of those type of behaviors that we've, we've, we've created this ego-led environment when it comes to our athletes. And you, and you get to the point to where it becomes so ego-driven that you miss,

• 59:33Speaker 01

  you miss the, the real opportunity.

• 59:36Speaker 05

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• 59:45Ryan Clark?

  How do you, well, you talk about that ego and you talk about dealing with the player. And you mentioned standing in the rain and everybody getting wet.

• 59:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:54Ryan Clark?

  When you have a guy that makes decisions like Draymond makes.

• 59:59Speaker 01

  Stood there right with him.

• 1:00:00Ryan Clark?

  You're a part of that as well. What's the part that you play in not only him being aware and accountable for what's going on, but also finding a way for him to reconcile that and be, I guess, accepted back into?

• 1:00:19Speaker 01

  Well, well, first of all, if you know Draymond, he's gonna, he's going to hold himself accountable when he's wrong. Now, whether he do it in the public or the private, that's up to him. But at the end of the day, my conversation with him was very simple. I said, "Day Day," we talk every day, by the way. Talked three times today already. I said, "Day Day," he said, "What's good, bro?" Now, he knows we gonna have a real conversation because we don't sugarcoat anything with each other. I said, "You're a champion, right?" He said, "Yeah." He said, "Yeah." I said,

• 1:00:58Speaker 01

  "I need you to do something for me." "I need you to be the champion of change."

• 1:01:05Speaker 01

  "That's what I need." "Could you do that?"

• 1:01:09Speaker 01

  "I got you." I said, "It's very important because for me, just taking my representation hat off, this is me and you talking." "You work too hard, bro." "You've already defied the odds." "Undersized four, five." "You don't jump over the hoop." "Born with an unbelievable IQ, basketball IQ." "Champion four times over." "Defensive Player of the Year, All-NBA, you've been on the USA team." "You have a post-career, which most guys don't." "You actually have a post-career." "Most guys have to find their post-career." "You actually have a post-career."

• 1:01:54Speaker 01

  "You can't mess that up." "Because again, going back to family, this ain't about you." "It's about DJ, Cash,

• 1:02:04Speaker 01

  Al, your wife, mom, get what I'm saying?" "It's ain't about you." "And for what?" "It ain't... There's no excuses made with us because there is no type of rebuttal or pushback." "I got you, bro." "Now, we've had the conversation and you know, you got to let people calm down or whatever the case may be." "And it's battle." "It's competitiveness." "But now, let's talk about common sense." "'Cause we out of the competitiveness train, let's talk about common sense." "You know, again, when the shit get bigger than the cat, they gonna get rid of the cat." "Jimmy told me that."

• 1:02:44Speaker 01

  You get what I'm saying? Yeah. And so, for you, it's no sense of tearing down the house that you beautifully built about nothing. Right? Because we can't get mad at when people go on TV and talk about it. That's your job, right? And the league and everyone else, your organization, they can only take so much, okay? But we have these conversations as men. There's not a scream, a yell, it's not a demand, there's no one above nobody, and I work for him. I work for him. But we have a respect, a profound respect for one another to where that energy ain't even there. And that energy ain't there with no player that I represent, not one.

• 1:03:28Speaker 01

  Not LeBron, not AD, not Darius Garland, not De'Aaron Fox, not Fred VanVleet, Zach Levine, Lonzo Ball. None of them. The young guys coming in, none of them. Myles Bridges, none of them, right? And I'm standing there with them. And everyone's not for us, and they're not gonna be for us. Because when it gets to those type of conversations, Yeah, me too. That's who you really know who's for you. And if you can have that conversation, and then you snap right back into it like it was nothing, then we move on. And you know what they can do to me? The same thing. Bro, what's that about? Tripping. We had them. I'm not perfect. We all under construction.

• 1:04:12Speaker 01

  I'm not perfect at all. So, having that, and you guys, when you play, you would respect that. You know what I'm saying? And so, those aren't hard conversations for me. Those are necessary conversations. Because, again, New Edition made the song. Can you stand the raid?

• 1:04:32Speaker 01

  They made the song.

• 1:04:34Fred Taylor?

  What are the conversations like with Klutch Sports Group and the front offices of the WNBA?

• 1:04:42Speaker 01

  Well, Jay leads that, who's really good, and you guys know our roster. I mean, we have an unbelievable roster led by Asia Wilson, who's the MVP and who's the best player in the game. He's just a beast. But I was just with Kathy, who is the commissioner of the WNBA. It's just supportive for us. And look, I hear all the hoopla. I think everything that's happening around the game, for the women's game, is important. And I think it's, you know, competition. The game has always been competitive, so I don't even know why people tripping on that, per se. But I think there's a collective effort of, you know, just eyeballs.

• 1:05:25Speaker 01

  The reason that eyeballs are now being drawn to the sport. I think it's just time, it's betting, it's so many different things in terms of, you know, just the, just this, this growth of the game. You know, those women are out there, and they got real game. They actually play a more fundamentally sound game than the men. Their IQ, you know, and so I enjoy the women's game. I grew up watching the women's game. And, you know, like, I just enjoy it. I'm not allowing myself to get into all the propaganda of it. I just enjoy the game.

• 1:06:06Speaker 01

  And I gotta make more games, because Chelsea and Asia, they get on me. But it's just tough, you know, the schedules and stuff. But I do make the playoffs, you know, at least I try to make one, for sure. But, yeah, no, I mean, we have, we represent Juju Watkins as well, who is a rising star.

• 1:06:22Ryan Clark?

  Met her at Upfront, met her father, awesome.

• 1:06:26Channing Crowder?

  But you got four on Team USA now.

• 1:06:28Speaker 01

  No, we got four on Team USA. I was gonna say that. We got four on Team USA. We got Jackie, we got Asia, we got Jewel, and we got Chelsea on the USA team. So, excited about that this summer. You know, and I, you know what? I have a great time when I'm around them. I really do. They, we kick it. Like, they kick it, and they enjoy me being around. But I let them do their thing and give them their space, but I like to hang out. I got a mean Hesey.

• 1:06:53Ryan Clark?

  They got. I got a mean ass. I don't, but I will tell you this, as we close, I've already hit up Kelsey and Asia about coming on the show. So I'm glad you came on. So after draft night, after they go to the Olympics and all that, I'm gonna be like, hey, Rich, I need you to check back in with them because I need them on the show as they go win this next championship. But man, we appreciate you, bro. No, I appreciate you guys. That was amazing, man. Yes, sir. Thank you so much, brother. Yes, sir.

• 1:07:44Speaker 06

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