Most Replayed Moment: Tony Robbins Reveals The Key To A Meaningful Life

As you build a successful life, are you making sure it’s meaningful too? Tony Robbins is a world-renowned life and business strategist, bestselling author, entrepreneur, and coach who has spent decades studying the forces that shape human behaviour, achievement and fulfilment. In this moment, Tony shares the hidden needs influencing almost every decision we make, and explains why money, status and freedom can still leave people feeling strangely unfulfilled. He explores what social media may be amplifying in us, why some of our strongest drives can quietly work against the life we want, and what can help us build a life that feels not just successful, but deeply meaningful. Listen to the full episode here! Spotify: https://g2ul0.app.link/VDxq5xcGH5b Apple: https://g2ul0.app.link/ZIsEDFeGH5b Watch the Episodes On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/TheDiaryOfACEO/videos Tony Robbins: https://www.tonyrobbins.com/

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:04Steven Bartlett?

  In a world of challenging meaning, where a lot of my viewers are struggling with meaning, one of the things I've noticed is that it appears, especially with young men who you talked about earlier, it appears that more and more of them are turning to religion. And you mentioned your faith in God there. It's a really interesting phenomenon for me that I've observed in my own life. I've talked about this a few times. Certain friends of mine who were very individualistic, they were living the dream in any way that you might define it. They had money, they had freedom, they had no boss, no dependents, no partner. And suddenly you see their life turn into what looks like depression, a form of depression and absence of meaning in their lives. And I wanted just to throw this out there because we are in a society that's, I think, increasingly encouraging independence.

• 0:48Steven Bartlett?

  And there's upsides to independence, of course. We all understand those. But I wondered if there's a sort of a double edged sword here. When we're, you kind of said it earlier about making the world more about just me, me, me and I. And in a world of abundance, I imagine many more people are going to choose to make it about I, I, I, I, I. Because I can, I can put a headset on theoretically, never leave my house. Someone could literally put, a robot puts the food in my mouth. I can have some sex robot, that just gets me off. Money comes in my account by UBI.

• 1:18Speaker 01

  The reason your friends got depressed, I've had this happen, I've seen this as well. Most of my friends are older than I am. Usually for some reason I gravitated to men that were 18, 20 years my senior, who were brilliant and learning from them and seeing where they're going in their life and so forth. But I watched some of them like sell their company and make a billion too. And then they were happy for like a month maybe. And they'd call me, let's go to this, go do that. And they're trying to go over something. But I got, you know, I got a lot of companies, got a lot of kids, I got a lot of things, right? And it's like, and eventually we all want to get back in the game. Because we have six human needs. Certainty, uncertainty. Because think about this, if you were certain every moment of your life, you know what someone's going to say. And I'm sure you've had this somewhat. You know what they're going to say before they're going to say it.

• 2:02Speaker 01

  But if you knew what someone's saying before they're going to say it, you know what's going to happen before it's going to happen every moment of every day. In the beginning it'd be cool. But after a while, what would you feel?

• 2:10Steven Bartlett?

  Bored.

• 2:10Speaker 01

  Out of your mind bored. So God, in her infinite wisdom, gave us uncertainty. We need variety, we need surprise. So I ask people, you're going to stay in 15,000 people. And I say, how many of you love surprises? And everybody raises their hand, yay. And I go bullshit. You love the surprises you want. The surprises you don't want, you call problems. But we need those too, right? Third need is significance. They need to feel unique, you need to feel special, they need to feel important. Who do you think has that need?

• 2:40Steven Bartlett?

  All of us.

• 2:41Speaker 01

  Everyone. Now, some people, like Donald Trump is pretty obvious, right? And some people though, it's like, I don't want significance. I don't want to be, I don't want to be special. That's only because they feel if they get special, they get attacked. Some people do it by earrings. Some people buy tattoos in certain areas. Somebody knowing box scores about a sport more than anybody else. Some people buy their art. Some people, the way they dress. Some people buy their money. Somebody being more generous. Everyone finds a way, okay? However, some people do it through violence. So let me give you another seed. Why has violence always been with us? If I feel I'm insignificant, and this is by the way even more powerful in most men's cases because of the nature of testosterone, right? Testosterone is about significance.

• 3:24Speaker 01

  It's about being dominant, right? So if I'm in a community and I'm driving by or I'm walking by this community and it's a tough community, a tough environment, somebody comes up, puts a gun to my head. I've never met him in my life. Why? Well, first of all, how certain do you think that person is you're going to respond when they put a gun to your head? Before, you may not have paid attention to them, but you're going to pay attention now. How significant are they in your life on a zero to 10 scale with that gun to your head? They're the most significant thing on earth. And by the way, every time it's a little different, they give variety. Anytime you meet a belief, an emotion or a behavior meets at least three of these six needs, you will become addicted to that thought, that feeling or that behavior. It could be a positive one or a negative one, but you will become addicted to it.

• 4:08Speaker 01

  So violence connects to those three. But you can also get significance by tearing other people down. So why do we have so many warriors in their little house, you know, doing their little virtual signaling, doing what they're doing? Because they've never done anything with their life. And it used to be, I'd have to confront you. Now I don't confront you, I don't even know who I am. I can say all this terrible shit and I'm sitting in my workplace and make my seal feel significant because I make you smaller, I'm bigger. It's why social media is so terrible. There's great things in social media. It's what's so terrible about it. It's like people now can meet their need for significance without much effort, no consequence. You come and say this directly to me, you're going to pay a price of some sort, right? That's no longer there.

• 4:50Speaker 01

  Now, fourth need, connection and love. Everybody wants love. Most people settle for connection because they've had love at one point. It was so painful when it ended. They decided to settle for connection. How can you get it? You can get it by going for a run and feeling connected to God, to the universe, to nature. You can get it by prayer. You can get it by being with some friends. You can get it by making love. You can get it by getting a dog. If nothing else, get a dog, no get a cat. Cats leave, but you know, dogs, you leave for two minutes. It's like you've been gone for six months. They'll make you feel very loved. There's a million ways to feel connection and love. Some are positive, some are negative. Some people get connected by their problems. They're always comparing problems. You ever seen two people comparing, but I have this. Well, you think that's better. Let me tell you mine. They're arguing over significance

• 5:34Speaker 01

  and they're connecting through their problems, right? So the biggest drug on earth is not cocaine. It's not fentanyl, it's not dope. It's problems. Because the deepest fear everybody has is they're not enough. And our deeper fear is if we're not enough, we won't be loved. I've never met a human being. I've worked with kings, queens, winners of everything you can imagine, Academy Awards, scientists. There's some point in which you might feel for someone you care about most that you're not smart enough, young enough, old enough, pretty enough, funny enough, rich enough, playful enough, something enough. And it is the worst feeling on earth. To feel like you are unloved and worthless is internal death. So people come up with a story.

• 6:16Speaker 01

  It's just because I have, you know, I have this dyslexia, that's why. Or it's because I was raped. And maybe they really were raped. I'd like to kill the guy that hurt them. But that's not why they're feeling what they're feeling right now. It's because they're fearful. And so if you have a big problem, that's why I'm not where I want to be. It's not that I'm not enough and not worthy of love. And so people use problems as a way to connect. Now, these first four needs, certainty, uncertainty, you can see how they'd have a conflict. But have you ever rented a movie you've already watched?

• 6:45Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 6:46Speaker 01

  Get a life. I have too. Why would we do that? Because we're certain it's good, but it's been long enough that we hope it's been, there's a variety that we won't remember at all, have a variety once again. So you can meet multiple needs through the same task potentially. But certainty, uncertainty, significance, here you are in Hollywood. Why do people come to Hollywood?

• 7:08Steven Bartlett?

  Be famous.

• 7:08Speaker 01

  To be famous, right? They don't know what that really is. If they did, some of them would move away from it. But significance is what they're looking for. But what they really want is love. That's what everybody wants. But you know what the problem is? They think if they're significant, everyone's going to love them. And I get these clients, without mentioning any names, the biggest names in Hollywood, the biggest names in sports. And you know what their number one thing is? They're angry. Why are they angry? Because they thought if I'm significant, everybody will love me. And now they go, people rip me online, they interrupt me with my family, trying to have dinner. They don't give a shit about me. They just want a picture, they just want this. And if I don't do it, they write that about me.

• 7:45Steven Bartlett?

  They care about themselves.

• 7:46Speaker 01

  They care about themselves. And so what happened is, I thought by being significant, I would be loved. And now I'm super significant and I'm not loved, I'm attacked. Because the more you try and push your significance on someone, the less significant they make you. If you love someone, there's nothing more significant than that. True love, not a trade, not I'll love you if you give me something. Genuine love. And if that happens, you become significant in people's lives. But that's the number one challenge in this community. So significance, love, I have attack. If you're significant, you're the individual. But I need to be connected. Or if I'm so connected, who am I? And that's the pull. The secret to it all, the final two needs, these are the spiritual needs, not religious, but spiritual. And that is, we all must grow. When you grow, you feel alive.

• 8:30Speaker 01

  And if you don't grow, you start to die inside. And this isn't my rule. Everything in the universe grows or dies, as you well know. This is the law of the universe. If your relationship's not growing, it's dying. Don't bullshit yourself. If your business is not growing, you're a businessman, you know. It is not growing, it is dying. You better do something now, right? But we grow so we have something finally to give, which is where meaning comes in life. When I grow, I have something more to give. And if I can give that to someone, then my life is more meaningful than just the pleasure of, I have the machine that, you know, makes me feel pleasure in certain parts of my body and feeds me and all the things you talked about. If you went to Vegas and you pulled down that, you know, that little jukebox thing and you get boom, boom, boom, bars, bars, bars. What's your reaction?

• 9:14Steven Bartlett?

  Amazing.

• 9:14Speaker 01

  Amazing. Wow, this isn't it. And you pull it a second time and you get it again.

• 9:19Steven Bartlett?

  Amazing.

• 9:20Speaker 01

  And you do it a third time, you get it again.

• 9:22Steven Bartlett?

  Less amazing.

• 9:23Speaker 01

  And now you do a hundred times.

• 9:25Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah, less amazing.

• 9:26Speaker 01

  And now what you have is a job. You do this and you got a predictable outcome. The fact that you don't know what the outcome is, that's the jackpot in it, they get someone hooked on anything. That's what makes it significant because it's scarce, right? So when you do this, if I said to you Osama bin Laden, what would you say is top need driving for us? Was it certainty? Was it variety? Was it significance? Was it love? Was it growth or contribution?

• 9:53Steven Bartlett?

  I'd say probably significance.

• 9:54Speaker 01

  Hundred percent. He was one of, I forgot the number, 27 children. Literally, he was 27 children. He was a nobody. He took his dad's money. He was not very religious. And he went to Afghanistan and he used his money and became significant. Not by shooting people, he provided resources. And then all of a sudden, his entire life changed. How do you know? The most significant thing is, he sent other people to die. He didn't go to die, he sent other people. Now, his number one drive is significance and his way of doing it was to get other people to die. On that same day in 9/11, there were men and women in the fire department, the police department, who went into those buildings knowing it, a good chance they would die to save a stranger.

• 10:36Speaker 01

  Also driven by significance, but with different rules. If I die a hero, my life is meaningful. And that's a meaningful life. So people can even have the same need structure, but their beliefs about how to meet those needs are the most important thing. And the needs of connection and love, growth and contribution have no downside. Certainty make, if you have certainty is your number one thing, you're always trying to keep life the same way. And you're going to be stressed out, especially with AI. You're going to be really stressed out. If you're a variety person, you can have a lot of fun. But eventually it's not much variety. Your life you described for all these people, now they have the money, they have the sex, they have this, they have that, they have the woman, they have the notoriety, they have the Academy Award. It all gets old. Because if we're not growing, it doesn't matter.

• 11:20Speaker 01

  How many people do you know that were famous, who were rich, who had supposedly everything people want and took their own life? Why they take their life? They stopped growing and stopped having a sense of meaning by giving. You can show, I can show you example after example of people. So these need structures in the new world have to be met. We can meet certainty right now very easily by going online and controlling our communication. That's why people text. That's much easier than communicating back and forth with someone, right? We can get variety by going online so easily now. We can get significance, tear other people down or work on something significant, we think, right? AI explore the world. We can get a sense of connection through people online or through a robot. Or these days, people have an AI and they talk to it

• 12:02Speaker 01

  like it's their boyfriend or girlfriend because it totally affirms them. They say something idiotic and they tell you, you're so smart, right? You're better, right? But you're missing growing and contributing. If you're missing growing and contributing, you will not feel fulfilled. You as a person, if I've read your books correctly, and I didn't read them all, but I've had pieces of it. Probably the best lesson you got early in life was there's the science of achievement, there's the art of fulfillment. They're two different skills. If you want extraordinary life, you need both. You go to the east, they're really great about fulfillment. They can live in poverty and feel totally happy and connected to God or the universe. You come here and people can have an incredible external life, but their internal life often not so nice. They get really pissed off because they didn't get their special sauce

• 12:47Speaker 01

  on their burger, right? It's a different world. I believe you can merge those two. How? You master the science of achievement. There are rules to achieve, as you well know. I wrote an old book with 33 rules in it, me too, right? So I know those rules. I know, I wrote books on finance, three of them. I want an answer, is it still possible to win the financial game? Because so many young people think it can't be done. So I interviewed 50 of the greatest financial people alive today. All started with nothing, all billionaires, nobody from the Lucky Sperm Club. They all did it on their own. Ray Dalio, Carl Icahn, Warren Buffett, all of them. And guess what I found? They're all different, but I'm a modeler. I found the strategies that are common between them and I applied them. I taught other people, wrote the books, but I applied them myself. And that's how my businesses and my life grew geometrically. I modeled, I didn't have to learn on my own experience. You follow?

• 13:32Steven Bartlett?

  I've got to ask you some questions on those two points. So on these six needs, because I also want to ask you about the 50 rich people that you've interviewed for the books. But on those six needs, when you look at someone like me and you look at the broad world that I'm heading towards as a 30 year old man, what, what configuration of these needs?

• 13:52Speaker 01

  Well, I'll tell you what creates all the pain first.

• 13:54Steven Bartlett?

  Okay, please.

• 13:54Speaker 01

  So if I go to a room and I'll say, I explain these needs like I have. I know this is kind of lecture here. I didn't mean to be that, but I just want to share because I'm so passionate about it. And I'll get people to understand what they are. And then I ask them, I want you to write down what you think your top two needs have been, not in what you want, but in the way you've been living. Because people may want love, but they think they have to be significant before they can get it. Or they might want love, but they want certainty that love will never go away. You follow me? And so that modifies things. And I'll say, so the way you live, the way you've lived, what would have been the top two? And then I say, I want you to write a paragraph about what's the downside of having that one so high on your list? And it's amazing. So then I say, now write what you think your list top two should be to go to the next level of your life.

• 14:39Speaker 01

  Okay? That's how that you do that. What do you think your top two needs? I see you doing it, which I love. I love how active you are. So what would you say your top two have been up until now?

• 14:49Steven Bartlett?

  I think if I'm being completely honest.

• 14:51Speaker 01

  Yes, and by the way, by the way, I want to thank you because I watched several of your pieces and you are, you're not bullshitting about.

• 14:58Steven Bartlett?

  There's just no, I'm going to die someday. So there's no, even if being honest makes me look bad, this is my clue. Because my, of course, like significance, of course.

• 15:06Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 15:06Steven Bartlett?

  Especially from where I, you know, where I came from.

• 15:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:10Steven Bartlett?

  That was the big problem was, you know, being different and not in a good way.

• 15:13Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 15:14Steven Bartlett?

  And then I would say, interestingly, it feels like uncertainty and significance are really, really high for me because

• 15:22Speaker 01

  Yes, yes.

• 15:23Steven Bartlett?

  I've, for some reason, I have a very, a huge appetite for uncertainty.

• 15:27Speaker 01

  Yeah. You're wired that way in a beautiful way. It also leads to learning for you. That's one of your vehicles for learning, is it not?

• 15:34Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 15:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:34Steven Bartlett?

  Dropping out of school, stopping going to school when I was younger, dropping out of university.

• 15:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 15:38Steven Bartlett?

  Um, quitting jobs where, you know, I shouldn't have quit them after a month.

• 15:41Speaker 01

  Which by the way, if certainty was your top need, would you have done that?

• 15:44Steven Bartlett?

  No.

• 15:45Speaker 01

  No.

• 15:45Steven Bartlett?

  No.

• 15:46Speaker 01

  Completely. So do you understand this? These are, I'm talking about the six controlling forces of your life. There's a million stories about your life, but there's only six reasons you do anything.

• 15:54Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 15:54Speaker 01

  You have all these stories with reasons. So what would you say would be the downside of that? There are better with the upsides, right?

• 16:00Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, great, yeah.

• 16:02Speaker 01

  We're sitting here because of the upsides. Your desire for significance made you look for significant ideas, significant application, succeed in business.

• 16:09Steven Bartlett?

  The downside is of wanting significance is

• 16:11Speaker 01

  At the, at the top, not, because it's valuable. Significance is valuable, period. Everyone should want it, but it's the sequence. So if it's the top of your list, what's the downside?

• 16:19Steven Bartlett?

  For me, it costs me connection and love and all these, and some of these other opportunities.

• 16:24Speaker 01

  That's correct, which is what you really want underneath it all.

• 16:26Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 16:27Speaker 01

  Your desire for significance really came from the fact that you were not loved and connected by people. People judge you by the color of your skin. They put you in a community where you were different. You were outside the, so it's like, I'll show them.

• 16:39Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 16:40Speaker 01

  Right?

• 16:40Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 16:41Speaker 01

  Which, but it was a very healthy response, right? But now at this stage of your life.

• 16:45Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 16:45Speaker 01

  This is the gift that you have now, this stage of your life, right? You're entering this second season, right?

• 16:49Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 16:50Speaker 01

  Now you don't have to be driven by that anymore. You already are significant. Like, what more are you going to do to significant? I'm sure you'll find more significant things to do, but you've done so many significant things. You've helped millions of people, I'm sure, through your insights, your elements. You've written books, you've built businesses and you're only 33 years old. That's pretty effing awesome, right? So now you get the leisure of be able to sit back and say, now with a greater level of consciousness, what would ideally be my top two? What would you say your top two need to be to have the next level of your life? To go to the next level for you?

• 17:21Steven Bartlett?

  It's really easy for me to answer this question. Um, connection and love and the need to grow and give?

• 17:26Speaker 01

  Yes, yes. Yeah, well, those are two different ones. Contribution, okay. Growth and contribution. Of those two, which one do you think is even more important for you?

• 17:34Steven Bartlett?

  Oh, God, of those two?

• 17:35Speaker 01

  Yeah. It's hard because one you can see is the vehicle to the other.

• 17:38Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 17:38Speaker 01

  I understand that, but I'm asking a different question. I'm saying, which is more important to feel, experience?

• 17:42Steven Bartlett?

  It would be contribution.

• 17:44Speaker 01

  Yes. So for you, you're saying love and contribution?

• 17:49Steven Bartlett?

  I'm saying love and contribution.

• 17:51Speaker 01

  In what order?

• 17:53Steven Bartlett?

  Love first and then contribution.

• 17:54Speaker 01

  It's a good choice.

• 17:56Steven Bartlett?

  I try, in my head, I tried the other way around and I thought, no. It's almost like monks have said to me many years ago that you need to fill up your cup so you have something to pour out for others.

• 18:04Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 18:04Steven Bartlett?

  And that's what I was thinking of. I was thinking, it doesn't work either way.

• 18:06Speaker 01

  That was a wise, wise choice. Most people wouldn't make that choice. I for most of my life was contribution first and then love. It was my way of earning love. And so like I'd be on stage for 13 hours, and this is before people had phones and everybody wants to sign something and give me a hug. I work my guts out and then that was my take it in time. So I'd be there, finish at 1:30 or 2:00 in the morning and I'd be there till 3:30 till every person had an autograph, got, you know, their hug and everything else. Now it's pictures a lot faster, but that was my life. I met my wife, Sage, changed my entire life. She didn't care that I was Tony Robbins, she just loved me. And all of a sudden, I never thought 12,000, 15,000, 20,000 people could, of love pouring out, you could compare one person to a pair,

• 18:50Speaker 01

  but way beyond that. So now I finish it and when I give my guts, I go till 1:00 in the morning, but then I get up and I leave, right? You know, I take pictures in the middle of the day, but then I leave at that time and I go and be with my wife. And it switched where love was there because think about this. If contribution is first, and this is what a lot of people do, then it's a way to protect yourself from feeling rejected. Because if I, I'm always giving to you truly generously over beyond what you can imagine. And then you treat me like shit, well, then you're clearly the problem, right? I don't have to think I'm not enough. So, but the more honest way is love. Because if it's love first, now I'm giving because I want to, not because I have to. Does that make sense? So tell me how you think that would change your life if you made love and contribution your top two and the way you actually live? Because you already value love and contribution.

• 19:35Speaker 01

  But if they were the highest priority, how would it shift your life for the better in your mind?

• 19:39Steven Bartlett?

  I feel like I would be significantly less stressed.

• 19:43Speaker 01

  You are correct. You are absolutely correct. So when I ask the audience this, I have them write down, and I've got 15,000 people, and I'll say, okay, how many have certainty on your list? And they've come to an event that is a fire walk, right? And you get like 50, 60% of the rooms in their top two of their list, right? Because in our culture, it's still the most important one. It's the foundational one. It's the one that's going to have the biggest problem with AI. Because they want things to stay the same, and life isn't. The only thing that's for certain is change. And now rapid change, like geometrically rapid change. Okay, variety, small number, significance, through the roof. Social media has made significance disproportionate in our culture, and it's why people are so unhappy. You used to maybe compare most yourself to your neighbors or your friends.

• 20:28Speaker 01

  Now you compare yourself to billionaires, of which there's only 3,000, right? And so you're like, my life's not that great anymore. Or you compare it to pictures that have been doctored. A friend of mine owns a gym, and he says, Tony, you can't believe it. Women and men come in here who are influencers. They lay everything out, and then they do their video, and they never work out. They're 27 years old, they don't have to work out for shit. I mean, it's like they do a minimum workout, they've got jeans, they're just fine. They don't even do the workout. It's all pictures, it's all bullshit, right? You know, he goes, it makes me so mad, because you know, real people, they're working hard to make something happen. So that's why people get so, women especially, depressed, comparing themselves to images that are not even real, right? It's totally absurd.

• 21:07Speaker 01

  So when I do with the audience, though, certainty and significance is 80% of the room, right? There's growth people, contribution people, but that's the dominant force because of our cultural conditioning. And because certainty is basically a survival tool. Then I've asked them to do what you did, and I say, okay, tell me, I don't tell them anything, like I didn't tell you anything. And then I say, okay, who has certainty on their list now? And in a room of 15,000 people, 12,000 people, there might be like five. Okay, there's five people that really don't like pain, so I point that out to them, and they look at me. And then I go, okay, how many you got, you know, variety, it'll be more variety. How many got significance? The number plummets, just like it did with you. People, I didn't tell them anything, their own intelligence knows this, right? How many got love? Through the roof, right?

• 21:51Speaker 01

  Contribution through the roof, growth through the roof. Those are the ones that expand. And then we show people how to condition that, though, because it's one thing to know it. It's another thing to start training it in your body to make those priorities happen in your life, right? Just like any other habit, working out or anything else. You have to build the neurology of that. You have to practice putting yourself in those states over and over again, where you make the value based on love, or you make the value based on contribution. See, before, you do something to be significant, and you miss out on some of the love. Now, love is probably always what you wanted, that's why you can make that decision so quickly, right? But now I'm going to go for that first, not this circuitous route. By the way, you will still be significant. You'll be loving first, and you'll be contributing, and that will make you significant.

• 22:34Steven Bartlett?

  Is it really possible to change, like that deeply?

• 22:37Speaker 01

  No, not at all. I've never been able to do that in my 49th year. I'm just, I've never seen that happen.

• 22:44Steven Bartlett?

  No, I was thinking really, really deeply about what you were saying. And I was thinking, there will be some people that are listening. And I think there was maybe a part of me, my conscious, that's like,

• 22:54Steven Bartlett?

  because that's a journey I've never gone on before. I've never shifted from the...

• 22:59Speaker 01

  Well, you're not going to do it by discussion. You have to have leverage.

• 23:02Steven Bartlett?

  And what is that?

• 23:03Speaker 01

  Leverage is, you have to have something you value more than your present way of doing things. Leverage can be pain or pleasure, right?

• 23:10Steven Bartlett?

  Let my feelings say.

• 23:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, your feelings say. I understand how you got to LA. A little leverage, right? Her love, her happiness, her joy. Oh, that's beautiful.

• 23:20Steven Bartlett?

  That's a face.

• 23:21Speaker 01

  My girl.

• 23:22Steven Bartlett?

  You and Sage.

• 23:22Speaker 01

  That's awesome. You're good at putting people to state with their pictures. That's impressive.

• 23:26Steven Bartlett?

  It's a beautiful photo.

• 23:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, I love her so much. And we've been together 25 years. I love her more today than ever before. She is a force in nature, this woman. Really, really great. But yes, she's leverage in my life. My youngest daughter's massive leverage, you know, she's four and a half years old. It's beautiful. But I'll give you an example. I worked with a woman one time on stage, and she was a colon therapist and vegan, and you know, so... But she was always sick because she's so stressed all the time, trying to be perfect at everything. There's a constriction in her body, right? And the level of stress was just ridiculous, right? So I was trying to get her to see, have some other options about what to do, without boring you the whole story. I'm looking for leverage always. That's how you get someone to make a change. You got to make change a must, not a should.

• 24:12Speaker 01

  Not me making it to you. If I put a gun to your head, that's leverage. But some people rather die than bend to your will. You're finding what moves that person. It's unique for everyone. Not what motivates them. I hate the word motivation, I've never used it. I want to know your drives. Look, if you're fat, you're motivated to eat. I want to know what's underneath. I want to know what the drives are. So this woman, I'm trying to help her make changes, and I show her these things and see the consequences. And she wouldn't change, wouldn't change. So finally, I said, man, I got to push this lady. It's like, I said, how long, I wouldn't tell her this, I asked. I said, how long would a person with a level of stress, with these things you're doing, and these ailments, how long will a person like that live if they don't change?

• 24:53Speaker 01

  And she paused, and she thought, and she said, probably to 35. How old are you? 32. So I thought, okay, she's going to change now. Maybe she's going to do it, right? That's the leverage. She's got to change. But I can't change, I just can't. It's just how my life is.

• 25:10Speaker 01

  I said, well, I said, this session is on videotape, you know? And I said, how do you think your daughter's going to feel when she's carrying your coffin, and she knows that you knew you could shift this, and you didn't? This is pretty intense. I mean, she thinks she's going to die. If she doesn't do it, she probably could. So I'm picking up big leverage, right? Because I know that's horrible, but I can't change. And part of my head, I'm like, holy shit, she's not going to change here. What the hell's going to change her? And then I said to her, I said, yeah, what if her new mother is a meat eater? And she exploded on stage. That is not happening. I will not make this happen.

• 25:53Speaker 01

  I mean, she went berserk, and she goes, fine, I'm changing this now. Like, there is always leverage. There is something that will make change a must and not a should. Change is never a matter of ability. It's always a matter of strong enough reasons, of motive. If you've got strong enough reasons, you can do just about anything. But if you have weak reasons, you're not going to do anything. So the fact that you understand this is our discussion. In an event, you'd be in a rabid, rabid peak state, and I take you through a process of consequence, where you will envision what the consequences are, and then you can make that shift. And you've still got to condition it. This specific change is the hardest one.

• 26:29Steven Bartlett?

  I think a lot of people might say, I was thinking forward as life events to come, and becoming a father is often...

• 26:36Speaker 01

  That will do, that will absolutely shift a lot of people. Becoming a father, getting married, falling in love, there are certain events. Losing people will make you reevaluate things. Hitting a birthday, you know, you're 33, when you hit your 40th birthday, I'm sure you don't think it'll be any different. I remember people telling me that. But you tend to reevaluate for some weird reason or a culture. And after 40, usually a five-year or a 50-year, 60-year. It's just part of the way we look at life. There's a process you go through, and there'll be different things that trigger you. But when you want a real lasting change, you have to change the driving force. When we change these, it's changing your values. So again, like, think about how your brain is a predictor, and it's trying to close the gap between what it's predicting, what reality is.

• 27:22Speaker 01

  When it's not working, it looks for an answer. When you get to the point where your old strategy doesn't work enough, and you have enough pain, you will search for something new. And if at that time we can give you something that actually works, you'll grab it. It's like, if you're drowning in a sea of confusion, and I throw you a life raft, you're not going to go, I don't like the color.

• 27:40Speaker 01

  You're going to grab a hold, and it comes into your unconscious. And the other, last thing I'd say about that is, it's also about going beyond your conscious mind, right? If you ever try to do something and then sabotage yourself, it's this consciously you wanted one thing, subconsciously another. I believe all lasting change happens in an altered state. When I say an altered state, you could call it hypnosis. I tell people, I'm a dehypnotist. Most people walk around in hypnosis. People tell me, like, you can't hypnotize me, and they're in a hypnotized state in that moment. Did you ever drive your car, and then something catches your attention, and you stay focused on it too long, and all of a sudden you realize, holy shit, who's been driving the car? Have you ever had that experience? That was a hypnosis state. Hypnosis just means you're inside, not outside, most of the time.

• 28:23Speaker 01

  And in a hypnotic state, what goes in, goes in deeper than just in a consciousness state. That's why I like doing storytelling, and my wife and I, there's certain things in life that just shouldn't happen, that are inhuman, and trafficking is one of them. And we had a friend that's child was taken in traffic. That was the most brutal thing. And so I got us involved, and so now we've contributed to 72,000 children being saved. I've gone out on some of these undercover with scars on my face and elements. It's the most brutal thing you can possibly imagine. But I tell you this because when you witness certain things in life that are so intense, they alter you, they change you, they change what you value, they change what you make important in your life.

• 29:06Speaker 01

  And so when I say to people, you want your life to keep growing, keep putting yourself in new environments. Keep getting around things you're not used to, and let something hit you. You know, like, people don't know their passions because they keep going and doing the same things. It's like, get around where it's better and see what hits you. And something's going to strike you, something's going to wake you up, something is going to make you feel more, desire more, want to give something to life as opposed to just live your life. Because the life you described to those people is predictable. You get familiarized, even pain. I mean, you look at people in Auschwitz, you know?

• 29:38Speaker 01

  Man's Search for Meaning is one of my favorite books. Have you read it?

• 29:40Steven Bartlett?

  Victor Frankl.

• 29:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I bought the rights, I'm making the movie, right?

• 29:42Steven Bartlett?

  Oh, really?

• 29:43Speaker 01

  The reason I was telling you about the finding the kids is I made The Sound of Freedom. Did you see it?

• 29:47Steven Bartlett?

  Yes, incredible.

• 29:49Speaker 01

  And we beat Disney that weekend. People thought that would never happen, right? But that movie changed people radically, woke them up, brought resources to the table, created real shift. Man's Search for Meaning, I think, can do that as well. But in those places, they get habituated to the pain. You get habituated to pain or pleasure. That's why we've got to grow. And when we grow, we get that life cycle, we feel more alive, and then we got something to share, and then we feel meaning, and it's like a virtuous cycle, and life gets better and better.

• 30:18Steven Bartlett?

  What you just listened to was a most replayed moment from a previous episode. If you want to listen to that full episode, I've linked it down below. Check the description. Thank you.