How He Dropped 75lbs on a Plant-Based Diet and Became an Ironman

Today on the show I chat with Thad Beatty, guitarist for the multi-platinum country duo Sugarland. In so many ways, Thad's story closely mirrors mine. The details are distinct, but no matter — the journey is all too familiar. I first came across Thad's story on Ironman.com and — struck by the similarities in our journeys — knew I had to have him on the show. Just a few years ago, Thad tipped the scales at 230 lbs. Overweight with raging blood pressure and alarmingly elevated cholesterol, the touring musician lifestyle had him headed in the direction of irrevocable health problems in his mid-30's. His decision to turn his life around snapped into focus the day he found out his mother had been diagnosed with colon cancer. In support and solidarity with mom, both Thad and his brother decided to clean up their act. It started simple — ditch the lousy processed foods and start eating more fruits & vegetables. One thing led to another, and before he knew it, Thad found himself a convert to the PlantPower lifestyle. Not long thereafter, Thad shed the weight – 75lbs in all — down to a trim 165 lbs. Life was good. But then came another moment of clarity. Sugarland's guitar tech was diagnosed with advanced lymphoma. MusiCares came to his aid, but it was too late. Kevin Quigley unfortunately passed away in March 2012. It was at this moment that Thad decided to focus on service — giving back to his beloved profession. So was borne his dream of completing an Ironman. Not for himself, but to raise money for the foundation that had come to his friend's aid. Thad achieved his dream, finishing the Arizona Ironman last November, raising funds along the way. But that was just the beginning. Thad decided to take his service game to the next level, ultimately establishing his own foundation — Music That Moves– dedicated to improving the holistic health and fitness of his fellow musicians beyond the stage through various means, including sharing the lifestyle principles that changed his own life. And this October he's taking his game to the main stage — this time not as a musician but as an athlete — lining up in Kona to compete at the Ironman World Championships as part of Ironman's Kona Inspired program. I'm hoping we'll all catch a glimpse of Thad and his story when NBC airs the race broadcast. I hope you enjoy the conversation! Rich NOTE: There are audio quality issues with this Skype-recorded conversation. Apologies. Just when I think I have it all figured out, technology rears it's ugly head once again. The good news is the quality improves after the initial 30 minutes of the conversation. I did my best to clean it up, but it is what it is. As always, I promise to continually improve, but these things happen. Go easy on me. Here's a little video from Thad from the Kona Inspired site to get you pumped. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Rich Roll?

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• 0:44Rich Roll?

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• 1:04Rich Roll?

  Welcome to episode 48 of the Rich Roll Podcast with Thad Beatty.

• 1:19Speaker 01

  The Rich Roll Podcast.

• 1:21Rich Roll?

  Hey, people. Rich Roll here. This is the Rich Roll Podcast. Welcome to the show. What happened? Why was there no podcast episode uploaded on Monday? I need my Rich Roll Podcast. I've come to rely on it every Monday. Well, here's what happened. I was in Toronto. I was in town for the Toronto Veg Fest, which is, I believe, the largest veg fest in the world internationally. Massively attended, thousands and thousands of people convening on the waterfront in beautiful Toronto. I had the good fortune of speaking there last year. They invited me back.

• 1:59Rich Roll?

  And my plan was I brought my portable podcast rig, which now I have all this great new equipment. I've got this special briefcase. I keep it in, I was so proud and I went and I thought, I'm gonna sit down with all these people, I'm gonna have these amazing conversations with so many influencers in this movement, I'm gonna come back from Toronto with all sorts of episodes that I'm gonna be able to upload over the next couple of weeks. Well, you know how, you know what they say, you know how to make God laugh, you tell him your plans. Well, that was my plan, that's not what worked out. What happened was, I got to Toronto and the demands on my time were so extensive, I literally was rushing around the entire time that I was there. I

• 2:44Rich Roll?

  didn't have five minutes to sit down with anybody to have any kind of conversation longer than five or 10 minutes. So unfortunately, I just did not have the bandwidth to do in-person podcast interviews with the amazing people that I found myself spending time with, which was very painful. It was great and exciting and amazing to be in the midst of so many inspiring people, people that have inspired me, and that I think will inspire you, and to be unable to find the time to sit down with them. But, that's life, that's the way it is. But I will be interviewing a lot of the people that I met over the weekend, either by Skype or in person, over the next several weeks, so you can look forward to

• 3:27Rich Roll?

  that. But, it was still nonetheless, an amazing weekend. I delivered my keynote on Saturday night, it was really, it was pouring rain, they were worried about people turning up, but, we filled the theater, which was amazing, and I think they had to turn away, like 30 or 50 people or something. So, if you showed up to hear me speak and you didn't get in, I'm so sorry, there was nothing I could do about it. I wish the venue had been a little bit bigger. But hopefully, I will be returning to Toronto sometime in the next six or eight months, or something like that, and you'll have another chance to come and hear me speak. One of the exciting things that happened in Toronto was, that I am involved in this

• 4:09Rich Roll?

  documentary project. My friend James Wilks, who if you've been listening to the podcast, you know he was a guest several months ago, he's the MMA UFC fighter. Ultimate Fighting Champion who's plant-based. He speaks very eloquently and intelligently about the science behind plant-based nutrition and his advocacy of this way of eating for athletic performance. And he decided he was going to make a documentary about all the plant-based athletes out there. I was one of the first people that he interviewed over a year ago when he was really just trying to figure out how to make a documentary. He'd never made a film before and he was kind of bootstrapping the whole thing.

• 4:51Rich Roll?

  Fast forward a year later, him and his main partner in the project, Joseph Pace, have come a long way. They've raised a bunch of money, fully budgeted, and they're working with the producer from Forks Over Knives and they're kind of under the tutelage of that organization. It's not clear that it's going to be put out under the Forks Over Knives banner, but they sort of are, the Forks Over Knives crowd has been very supportive of this project and helping sort of guide it. And now, he's got a tremendous number of amazing interviews with all sorts of fascinating people. And him and his crew, Joseph and James and their crew, were in Toronto doing a lot of filming.

• 5:36Rich Roll?

  And I had the good fortune of being able to participate in that a little bit. They filmed my keynote. And a few conversations that I had with some of the other plant-based athletes that were in town, which was fantastic. The most amazing and notable of which is this guy, Patrick Babumian. If you follow me on Instagram or on YouTube, you probably saw the pictures that I posted and the video that I posted. But basically, Patrick is Armenian. His descent, I think he's Iranian and Armenian, but he lives in Germany and he's a strong man competitor.

• 6:19Rich Roll?

  He's one of those guys that lifts unbelievable amounts of weight. You know, they have those TV shows and those competitions where these guys lift an unbelievable amount of weight and run like 10 meters. With it on their back and they see how fast and how strong they can be and there's a whole number of events and he's one of the kind of top guys in this world and he's vegan, guy's on a plant-based diet, he looks like the real world Wolverine. I've never met anyone in real life that actually rocks the Wolverine beard, but this guy pulls it off and he looks like the Wolverine, the way he looks in the comic book, you know, sort of a stout, shorter guy who's just unbelievably strong. And Patrick came into Toronto to

• 7:04Rich Roll?

  attempt to set a Guinness Book of World Records for most weight lifted and carried. So as I understand it, and I could have my facts off a little bit, but in these strong man competitions, they have an event where they place a tremendous amount of weight on this yoke. It's like a bar scaffold thing where they can put plates on it. And then they lift it up on their back, on their shoulders, and they go 10 meters. And in these competitions, they see how much weight they can do and how fast they can go 10 meters. And Patrick thought, well, I'd like to try to see if I could just lift more weight than anyone

• 7:49Rich Roll?

  else ever has. And as I understand it, the current world record is held by somebody who lifted 540 kilos. Do the math on that. I don't know what it is, like 1100 some odd pounds. And he said, well, I'm going to try to top that. I'm going to do it with 550 kilos. I'm not going to worry about how fast I can go the 10 meters as long as I do it under a minute. I just want to lift more weight than any human being ever has, or at least lift more weight over 10 meters than anyone ever has in the history of humankind, at least as documented. And so on Sunday at the Toronto Veg Fest, at this outdoor

• 8:33Rich Roll?

  stage called the WestJet Theater, which is right on the harbor, right on the water, it's this beautiful outdoor amphitheater. Posted a pic on Instagram of it. Um, in front of a crowd of several hundred people. I don't know how many people were there, but there were a lot of people. Um, I was on stage, uh, with James and Joseph, uh, and also George LaRocque, who I'm going to tell you about. He's an NHL player, also a vegan. Um, we kind of helped get him sorted out and set up, uh, sort of assisting him. And he went for it. He lifted 550 kilos, which is 1,216 pounds, and he carried it

• 9:14Rich Roll?

  for 10 meters and broke the world record. It was, uh, quite a dramatic, amazing experience. And what's interesting is that, and I've talked about this before on the podcast, that, you know, it's one thing for a runner or a triathlete, an endurance athlete to adopt a plant-based diet and perform. You know, these are endurance athletes. They're not very threatening, but it's another thing altogether when, when a strength athlete, um, decides he's going to try this. And, uh, Patrick couldn't be more different in his athletic prowess from the kind of things that I pursue. Uh, and yet to see somebody who is subsisting on a plant-based diet, lift more weight than anyone else has ever

• 9:59Rich Roll?

  lifted before. That's a very impactful moment. So it was quite an honor to kind of be there in person, to witness that and, uh, and to see him, uh, impact so many people. He's an inspiring guy. He's a funny guy. And I would have loved nothing more than to sit down with that guy for two hours and bang out a podcast with him. But like I said, you know, our time was spread very, very thin. And I talked to him and he's more than happy to come on and do it on Skype because he's unlikely to be in Los Angeles anytime soon. Um, and I really want to get his story out. It's, uh, it's inspiring. So that was one guy that I had the good fortune of meeting that I want to share with you. The other guy's George LaRocque, who is a former NHL player, NHL star, Canadian hockey player who lives

• 10:44Rich Roll?

  in Montreal. Uh, he's of Haitian descent, um, a big, strong guy, 260 pounds. Was known in the NHL as a brawler, like he got into a lot of fights. And he's a very eloquent, well spoken gentleman who is now a politician. In addition to running several businesses, I think he has two raw vegan restaurants in Montreal. He has a kombucha company called Rise Kombucha. He's written a book and he's running for, he's currently running for office right now in Montreal. Under the green, he's in the Green Party. So he was another fascinating guy that I'd heard a lot about and knew of certainly, but had never had the opportunity to meet.

• 11:28Rich Roll?

  And he's getting ready to run his first marathon. So we hit it off talking about endurance stuff. And I think I talked him into attempting an Ironman next year and he's trying to rope me into doing it with him. So more will be revealed on that. But I ended up hanging out a lot with these guys and with James and working on the documentary project, which is really exciting. It's going to be, you know, another year before that thing's done and out, but an honor to be included in that project. But long story short, the point being that my plans, my big plans for recording all these podcasts just didn't, didn't happen. And Monday came and went and no podcast went up.

• 12:10Rich Roll?

  So I'm sorry about that, but I'm now committed to playing offense and starting to record a lot more of these so I can bank them and release them in a more calm and organized fashion coming up. Today on the show, I'm pretty excited to have Thad Beatty, who I've been talking to over a number of months and have been wanting to get him on the podcast. I'd held off because I thought that he was going to be in Los Angeles and I wanted to do it in person, but his trip to LA got canceled. And so rather than continue to wait until when he might be in town, I just wanted to get his story out there.

• 12:48Rich Roll?

  He is the guitarist in the wildly successful country music band Sugarland. These guys are huge. If you're not a country music fan, just to put it into context, they have sold, I believe, like eight million, eight million albums. They're a multiple Grammy award winning band. They've won. CMA Awards, ACM Awards, I mean, they're huge, right? So, he's a guitar player in the band. And his story, in many ways, the details of his story are different than mine, but the kind of essence is the same. This is a guy who was 70 pounds overweight, had terrible cholesterol and blood pressure, you know, in his 30s.

• 13:33Rich Roll?

  And when his mother was diagnosed with colon cancer, he decided it was time to make a change. Ultimately, he ended up adopting a plant-based diet, and he became an Ironman. He did his first Ironman last year at Arizona, Arizona Ironman. And he's part of the Ironman WTC's program, Kona Inspired, where they select a few people with inspiring stories and give them a spot at the Kona Ironman World Championship Race. So, he's getting ready to participate in that race. And he's got a really powerful and great message. And he's a guy who's tremendously into service and giving back.

• 14:18Rich Roll?

  And I just love his spirit. I love his message. I love his story. You know, who doesn't love a great story of personal transformation? And he certainly fits the bill. So, it's a great interview. We're going to get into it in a minute. A couple notes about it. We did it by Skype. And so, whenever you use Skype, you're gonna... You might run into a few technical issues. And I certainly did. So, the first 35 minutes of the interview, the audio is a little bit spotty. It's a little echoey. My voice sounds like I'm in an echo chamber. It's not great. And then, the hour that follows that is a lot better. So, breathe.

• 15:02Rich Roll?

  I'm continuing to learn. I keep thinking I have all this audio stuff figured out, and then I run into problems. I actually lost an entire episode a couple of weeks ago. I sat down with my buddy, John Moffett. We had this epic conversation. It was amazing. And the audio file was corrupted. It didn't record at all, so... It's frustrating. Believe me, I am doing everything I can to avoid these pitfalls, but they happen. So please, don't be so hard on me. Bear with it. It's not terrible. It's just, you know, it's not the greatest audio. That's all. But then it gets better. So I promise I'm gonna keep getting better at this. I do have new equipment. I just have

• 15:46Rich Roll?

  to figure out this Skype thing a little bit better than I have. So I am going to be in Tucson coming up on September 21st. It's part of the Healthy You Network. If you want to learn more about that, go to HealthyYouNetwork.org. I'm looking forward to that event. There's gonna be some other cool people speaking there like Dr. Michael Greger, my favorite, who's been on the podcast, and Colleen Patrick Goudreau, who's also really cool. So check that out. What else? I think that's it. Thank you for all the support, you guys, for the podcast. When I was in Toronto, signing books after I spoke, and basically every single

• 16:31Rich Roll?

  person, they just want to talk about the podcast. Oh, the podcast this, podcast that, and it just blows my mind. It blows my mind how powerful this medium is, and that I can go all over the place and have this sort of shared commonality with people that have been listening to the show. So I dig it. I love it. I'm gonna keep going, and I appreciate all the support. If you want to support the show, the easiest and best way to do that is to click on the Amazon banner ad at RichRoll.com. It's on the blog page. It's on the podcast page. We're actually doing a little web revamp, so we can put it on the homepage, too, and

• 17:11Rich Roll?

  make it a little bit more visible. And also, we're redoing it so that we will make it available to people that are in the United Kingdom or in Europe, so that they can do it right. Because right now, it's just US only, I think. So, excuse me. We're making that change. Click that. Buy whatever you're gonna buy on Amazon, like fighting ultra the paperback. And, uh, Amazon kicks us a few pennies and, um, it doesn't cost you anything extra. So, thank you for doing that. Alright, I've been going on for like 20 minutes. I could do a whole ad about my Mind Body Green, uh, online plant-based nutrition course and our products and all of that, but if you've been listening, you know about that stuff.

• 17:55Rich Roll?

  All I ask is that if you're enjoying the show, tell a friend, help spread the word, and know that, uh, I really appreciate you guys. Thank you so much for all the support. Um, it was really hammered home to me when I went out of town and met so many cool people and, uh, it means a lot to me.

• 18:20Rich Roll?

  So, without further ado, let's just get into it, alright? Ladies and gentlemen, Thad Beatty.

• 18:32Rich Roll?

  I'm so bummed because you emailed me a little while back and said you were gonna be in LA. Your wife, I guess your wife was gonna be playing on, on Leno or Kimmel or something like that?

• 18:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, she's doing, they did Leno yesterday and then they did, uh, Ellen, I think it was today. So, they're out there having, having fun times and I was planning of the, the wonder trip of going, going to Vegas and, uh, doing some stuff for the Ironman Foundation at the 73 championships and then just hopping over to LA and, um, had stuff in Nashville I had to get done, so I wasn't able to make it. So, I'm, I'm pretty bummed about it.

• 19:08Rich Roll?

  Uh, well, well, Ironman calls. They're putting demands on your time, yeah.

• 19:12Speaker 01

  I know. It's, uh, it's pretty exciting though. It's, uh, it's, it's fun for a silly musician to, to have all these, uh, uh, crazy different obligations that are, you know, completely outside the norm of what we're used to.

• 19:25Rich Roll?

  It's awesome, man. I think it's super cool. So, you were, so you were there to watch the, the 70.3 World Championships?

• 19:32Speaker 01

  No, I didn't get to make it because I had to, we were in the studio in Nashville, so I had to end up, uh, uh, postponing that trip and then we're gonna, we were gonna go and, uh... Do some stuff on the Iron Man Live broadcast for that and so I had to stay home and didn't get to be a part of it. So I'm sad about the whole thing.

• 19:48Rich Roll?

  Hmm, but so, so your wife, she plays bass in Sugarland, yeah?

• 19:53Speaker 01

  My wife plays bass in Sugarland, but uh, our singer Jennifer has done a solo record. So she's doing some, uh, some, some press for that right now. So they've been going and doing, you know, the whole press circuit. Uh, so about two weeks ago, they were in New York. They did the Good Morning America and the, uh, Kelly, uh, and Michael Strahan show. And now they've hopped over to the west coast, but, but, uh, we have a, we have a studio in town in Nashville. So I stay, stay in town doing that. So my wife just hops around. She's, she's gonna be on tour with an awesome, uh, singer songwriter named Amos Lee all fall. And, uh, so I'm pumped about, uh, checking her out with that too.

• 20:32Rich Roll?

  That's cool. So Sugarland is not touring right now because there is a studio?

• 20:36Speaker 01

  Right. Well, Sugarland is off right now. Uh, Jennifer, our singer, had a baby. And so that, uh, it was kind of perfect timing for me to, to kind of hop into this Iron Man world and, and do some stuff with the foundation. And the timing really, really worked out perfectly.

• 20:50Rich Roll?

  That's great. So I want to get into all this stuff, but before we get going, I have this nagging question I have to ask. I'm probably gonna be disappointed, but, um, my, uh, my brother-in-law is a guitarist that lives in Nashville. So I'm dying to know whether you guys have ever crossed paths. His name is Stuart Mathis.

• 21:09Speaker 01

  I've never met him, but I heard on one of your other podcasts, uh, uh, you made mention of him. And so now I've been, uh, I've been stalking him, seeing if I can find him, uh, at any local haunts or anything like that.

• 21:22Rich Roll?

  He shouldn't be, he shouldn't be too hard to track down. You guys run in packs right now.

• 21:27Speaker 01

  We definitely are in packs. It's just kind of finding his pack and then it'll be, uh, off to the races from there. Who does he, who is he working with? What's, what's the, uh, I remember the, you mentioned a band and I was, I had heard of him and I was like, oh, that's awesome.

• 21:40Rich Roll?

  Right. Yeah. He's in the Wallflowers now.

• 21:43Speaker 01

  Oh, okay. Yeah. That's awesome.

• 21:45Rich Roll?

  It's cool. He, uh, I mean, he lived in LA for many, many years and was kind of a journeyman, uh, guitar player. And played on, you know, tons of different albums and it took him a really long time to kind of get his traction. And then he started, uh, touring with quite a few acts. He was, uh, he was Jewel's guitar player for many years. And went on tour with her and, um, And he was with Five for Fighting and he played for Liam Ryan's for a number of years also on a couple of tours, I think.

• 22:17Speaker 01

  Okay, well, we definitely have plenty of connections.

• 22:19Rich Roll?

  Yeah, there's no question. I mean, he moved to Nashville, maybe two or three years ago, maybe longer. As I get old, I lose sense of time, but. Yeah, a number of years ago, he moved to Nashville and um, and his wife, uh. Holly is also a musician as well. I'm sure at some point you guys are gonna cross paths, so make sure you say hello.

• 22:39Speaker 01

  I will. I think we'll have to, you'll need to uh, uh, connect us via email and we can go and, and have the traditional Nashville coffee date.

• 22:46Rich Roll?

  Yeah, absolutely. I will de- I will definitely do that um, for sure. So. So anyway, so you know, I know a little bit about kind of what your world is like because. Every time Stuart's out on, on tour, you know, every time they pass through LA, we get to go to the show and go backstage and have the fun experience of, you know, meeting whatever band he's playing with and, and doing all that. And, and you know, he is always telling stories. So I feel like I have. A general sense of, of what your life is like, but it's a crazy, exciting. In certain respects, life, but also there's a lot of kind of, you know, mundane, not so rock star aspects of what it's like to be on the road. I mean, can you kind of paint a picture a little bit about what the day to day is like?

• 23:28Speaker 01

  Absolutely. I think you, you, you painted the picture uh, in your brief description perfectly. We have. Uh, you know, uh, uh, it's filled with ups and downs, so. We, you know, most times you're getting on a bus at midnight from, from Nashville, you're heading out to wherever you're going. You wake up. In a city and uh, when you're in a bigger, like an arena type tour, you're just waking up at the arena. So you wake up on the bus in the parking lot of. Uh, a, a basketball or a hockey arena and then your day starts by. Uh, wandering in, finding your uh, locker room, which is now your home base for the day and then hoping you can find catering.

• 24:11Rich Roll?

  It's very sexy and rock and roll.

• 24:14Speaker 01

  It really is. I mean, there's nothing quite like uh uh uh showering, uh you know, in front of your bandmates in an open stall shower and and same with the uh the full restroom facilities. Everybody's been in a locker room. So that's what that's what uh it is locker room lifestyle uh full go. And of course, we are a coed. So uh we lost all senses of modesty many, many years ago. And so I've been able to fit in well into the triathlon community, going to the uh to the local YMCA or wherever.

• 24:48Rich Roll?

  All right. Not afraid of a deck change with a towel around you in front of a thousand people, you know, getting ready for an Ironman.

• 24:54Speaker 01

  Right. That's it. And that's a that's a and and some sometimes I take tremendous pride in that. And then other times, my wife is usually the one that will remind me subtly in those times that uh there's certain places where speedo is not appropriate.

• 25:10Rich Roll?

  The speedo is appropriate everywhere. It's how you rock it, man. Come on.

• 25:14Speaker 01

  That that is my take exactly. And and I think she's getting used to that now.

• 25:21Rich Roll?

  And it's interesting that you tour with your wife. So how is that? How does that? You know, how is that? That's relatively unusual.

• 25:29Speaker 01

  It is. It has been one of the one of the greatest uh the greatest things that has ever happened to me. We we met in the same audition for Sugarland, you know, a little over uh eight years or so ago. So in the same audition. Uh so we had the that same gee, I wonder if I'm gonna get this this gig. I wonder if they like me uh conversation uh uh while we were doing the audition. And then shortly after we both we both got the gig, then we're the two new people on the job. So we created bonds of friendship that lasted a number of years as we were on tour. And about uh two or three years into it, Jennifer sat us down one day and basically said, hey, uh, you're not fooling anybody here.

• 26:12Speaker 01

  Uh, I just want you to know you have my blessing. You know, you're not gonna meet anybody unless it's on the road. And you two clearly have a strong bond. So you have my blessing. Go for it. So. We uh, we dated for a couple of years and, and got married and the whole band was there and it was uh, it was, it was an awesome experience. But just from a day to day, the day to day piece of it, we uh, uh, I, you know, our, everything we know about relationship is uh, in the airport or on a tour bus or in catering or at a-

• 26:44Rich Roll?

  I mean, what's that like when a tour is over and then suddenly you find yourselves at home, you know, sitting at a dinner table staring across from each other?

• 26:51Speaker 01

  Well, that's exactly what it is. You're sitting there staring, wondering what time catering's up. And then you realize you don't have a caterer at your house and, yeah, that's part of the, uh, that's been part of my, my whole journey to, uh, that's not too dissimilar from your story and what you, what you talk about in your book is you, you know, you, you, you wake up one day and you used to be somewhat healthy and somewhat organized and then the next thing you know, some years later, you're, uh, you know, you're significantly overweight and stressed and uh, as for us, it's uh, you know, it's definitely a learning curve. Uh, you know, we went to, we would come home and there's, the first thing you do is heck, I'm not gonna go buy groceries for two days of being home. You know, we go back on the road. So you eat out every meal.

• 27:36Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 27:36Speaker 01

  And that is social time and, and uh, uh, it, it's defin- definitely is tough, uh, you know, more tough being home.

• 27:44Rich Roll?

  Well, I think that, that uh, you know, I want to take a step back and, and let you kind of, you know, tell the whole story of how you got from overweight to where you are now for people that don't know the story. But before we get into that, I mean, I think one sort of point of, of uh, commonality with maybe the average listener is, you know, in one, in one respect, you know, you live this very unique lifestyle. But, you know, a lot of people say, well, I'm too busy to, you know, eat right or go to the gym or, or stay fit. But I would imagine that, you know, the time pressures on you are extraordinary. I mean, you're not, you don't even get to go home and your time really isn't your own and even if you, you know, you're on tour, you step outside and then you have to deal with people that know who you are.

• 28:27Rich Roll?

  It's very tough to find a private moment to just take care of yourself.

• 28:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, it really is, it's a, it was um a learning process that that went two directions. And you you learn how to to kind of stay inside and and do what you need to do. And and and from a food standpoint especially, you know, you're just doing what's convenient or what's in the moment or what's in the airport. Uh, so you learn a series of habits that way and then to to turn it around and and kind of unlearn those and and relearn healthy habits has been quite a journey.

• 29:01Rich Roll?

  Right, and I think that that if you can, if you can do it, you know, on the road, then there's gotta be a way for the average person who's working a nine to five job to do it. I mean, you can't even get in a car and go to a grocery store. But you probably don't even know where the grocery store is. You're in a different place every day. And on the one hand, you have the convenience of having a chef who's preparing meals for you, uh, which sounds fabulous. But uh, but but, you know, it's not like you can just get on your bike and go out for a three hour ride on a Saturday.

• 29:32Speaker 01

  And for so, so long, you know, the first, uh, you know, as it, as it started out, as we were, as we were, uh, just beginning, first couple of singles are starting to hit, you know, you're opening for everybody, you're playing at every fair and festival and, uh, you know, on trailers in the middle of nowhere. And and the majority of our year was, or years early on, were spent in cities that no one had ever heard of.

• 29:58Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm.

• 29:59Speaker 01

  So, yeah, there, there's no grocery store. You're, you're, sometimes your, uh, food options are, here's some meal tickets for the fair.

• 30:06Rich Roll?

  (laughing) A little cotton candy and some popcorn.

• 30:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, or, or a, uh, uh, we've got this really special thing where they take two Krispy Kreme donuts and they put a cheeseburger in the middle of it. And, uh, you can have a, a deep fried Snickers to go with that.

• 30:23Rich Roll?

  That sounds excellent. And so I wonder, you ended up seventy pounds overweight. So, let's step backwards and and and just can you, if you could just briefly kind of summarize, uh, you know, your story. And it's, in many ways, it's so similar to mine. Like, I love it. I'm so excited to get into this with you.

• 30:40Speaker 01

  Well, it's uh, when I read your book, it was, it was shocking and I got chills quite a, quite a, quite a few times just because the, you know, the context was different profession wise, but the story was, was very much the same. It's uh, you know, I've spent the last sixteen years in Nashville as a, as a producer, writer and a musician. And so that kept you, uh, or it's kept me in and out of the studio. Uh, you know, late hours at night and uh, then on the road and the, it's all about a different level of convenience. You know, it's about, uh, let's get, uh, okay, we're, we've got, uh, uh, this session we gotta get done. It's two in the morning. The only thing you can get is pizza. So you do that.

• 31:23Speaker 01

  And, and then over the years of touring, you have, like I mentioned, you have catering and you have, uh, you know, uh, the way that, the way that it usually works on tours, they'll, they'll, uh, they'll have three meals catered and then they have after show food, which is basically, you know, you play at ten o'clock at night and they basically bring you a fourth of dinner. And so you're doing, uh, you know, uh, chicken wings and pizza and hamburgers from wherever. And so, so my, my, my story is, uh, over, uh, I started, started traveling, started touring, was, was reasonably fit and was, was, you know, uh, active just because I had done some sports stuff in college.

• 32:05Speaker 01

  And then slowly over time, uh, you just wake up and, uh, you know, you're, you're a new person. And not, not in ways that you wanna be. And for me, it was, we were going through a series of, of, of, of, pretty heavy tour dates and my mom called one day and, and let me know that she had, uh, gone to the doctor, gone in, they'd done a colonoscopy and she had colon cancer. And for, for us, this was out of the blue. And we were in Birmingham, Alabama, doing a, uh, a, a show there and I can, I can remember just not being floored. And around the same time, I had started to have some, some, some, some side effects, some, some health stuff, um.

• 32:49Speaker 01

  All of which I thought was, you know, just stress related. So I had, just before that, gone to the doctor where I found out I had, you know, cholesterol was getting dangerously close to putting me on medication. I had high blood pressure. I was having, uh, kind of, uh, I started having physical, physical symptoms. So, you know, tingling in my hands and my forearms and, and, you know, vows of being lightheaded and, and, and all of these, uh, the signs that are just connected with just being, uh, not as healthy as I could be.

• 33:18Rich Roll?

  How old were you at the time?

• 33:20Speaker 01

  I was, uh, early thirties, so I was probably, uh, thirty-three or thirty-four at the time.

• 33:25Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm.

• 33:26Speaker 01

  And, um, uh, so for me, that led to, uh, you know, my profession comes from my ability to play guitar, and now I'm, I'm having numbness and tingling in my hands, which led to more stress, which led to more, uh, uh, you know, kind of the cycle begins. And then at the point where my mom calls and says that she has cancer, it was, uh, kind of, we, we as a family, uh, hit, hit the line where it was, uh, okay, enough's enough. We have to rally together and, and, uh, get this thing figured out, not only for her health, but, but each other individually. My brother was, uh, uh, was overweight as well.

• 34:05Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm.

• 34:06Speaker 01

  And so, uh, we all went on a journey together and it was, you know, it just started with, let's hop on the internet and see what, what we can find, uh, uh, anti-cancer foods, anti-cancer diet.

• 34:19Rich Roll?

  Right. And I love the fact that you bonded together as a family to try to be, I mean, you were doing it kind of for yourself because you knew you needed it, but really it was your, what was going on with your mom that was the wake up, the true wake up call that catalyzed the initial action.

• 34:33Speaker 01

  One hundred percent. And, you know, looking back, there's, I'm so, I'm so thankful. It's one of those things where it was probably the single greatest and worst experiences of my life, kind of all wrapped up into one. Um, and so for us, it, it became really about, uh, about family. I've been on the road, my mom was in Mississippi, and my brother had, uh, gone to college, and we, we kind of had separate lives as a family. Uh, you know, you talk, uh, every couple of weeks. And and say all the niceties, but you know, I would I would see I would get home and see them maybe once a year when we're not on tour.

• 35:09Rich Roll?

  Did they live in Nashville? Where do they live?

• 35:11Speaker 01

  My my mom was living in in Mississippi and then my brother was even further south in in Hattiesburg, Mississippi.

• 35:18Rich Roll?

  Hmm.

• 35:18Speaker 01

  And so so even holidays, it's it's you're trying to, you know, I'm thinking, I was just on the road for three hundred days this year.

• 35:27Rich Roll?

  Wow.

• 35:28Speaker 01

  The last thing on my mind is wanting to, you know, hop in the car and and, you know, drive around to see all of my fam.

• 35:34Rich Roll?

  Right, right. So so the diagnosis comes down, you go on the internet and you're trying to find the ultimate anti-cancer diet and what's popping up on in your Google search?

• 35:46Speaker 01

  Well, the things that we started noticing were uh uh uh certain amounts of raw foods affecting it. And of course, that leads us to Netflix when we we become immersed in in all of the the worlds of of the documentaries. You know, this was before Folks Over Nighs and some of the real popular ones now. So it was, you know, some so just the beginnings of kind of some fringe stuff. And my brother stumbled upon something that that said, if you can eat fifty one percent raw, then uh studies show that that that has a pretty good effect as far as as dealing with some of the cancer responses and things like that. So we as a family just kind of committed to, okay, let's figure this out. Fifty one percent raw. Of course, it's daunting at first.

• 36:30Speaker 01

  And you think, uh, how can we even do this? But it was a, you know, a trip to the uh the Costco and a Vitamix later. And uh it it was pretty simple. So we started with uh making smoothies for breakfast and then having uh tons of greens and and salad, uh and any veggies we could get into uh kind of a lunch, a lunch salad. And then you kind of eat normal at night. And before we know it, we're easily uh we're easily making it down the fifty one percent raw route. And you start to notice, well, this is this is I'm feeling better. I feel good about what we're doing. And then the next thing we stumbled upon was this idea uh of crowding out, which is

• 37:15Speaker 01

  if you drink more water, you don't have room for soda in your stomach. If you eat more greens, you don't have as much room for french fries in your stomach. If you eat more um uh.

• 37:26Speaker 01

  You know, uh, lean proteins, then you don't have as much room for fatty red meats and the other things. And so slowly over time, it was, uh, you know, uh, we started that process. I, I went from a guy who would pretty much eat and drink anything to a vegan now.

• 37:42Rich Roll?

  Uh, I like that it started, it didn't start with this idea of, okay, I'm gonna be a vegan now, or I'm gonna put a label on this. It was just, hey, let's try to get more raw foods, you know, let's try to get, you know, better foods into our systems and just go from there and start to feel different and then that motivates greater change and it really just started with the incredible, uh, transformative power of the Vitamix.

• 38:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, uh, no, no, no doubt. I can remember, we, we, we came home from that run in Birmingham where my mom would share everything with us. We went on our Mad Ram page on the internet, uh, got the Vitamix and then we flew out, we flew to LA and, um, uh, uh, we always stay in Santa Monica. And so coming out of LAX, um, uh, whatever, whatever direction we always go, there's that, that In-N-Out Burger that's right there, you know, maybe half a mile from LAX.

• 38:39Rich Roll?

  I know it well.

• 38:40Speaker 01

  Okay. So, so here we are, you know, it's, you know, it's, uh, it's a, it's a group of, uh, the band and then our crew, you know, so we're flying with say 20 people. We've got, uh, you know, uh, we get picked up in vans and then of course, everyone, everyone says, well, we have to go to In-N-Out Burger. That's what we do.

• 39:01Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm.

• 39:02Speaker 01

  Uh, and, uh, that was the ritual every time. And so I can remember, we had just been home, we just made this, uh, uh, proclamation to ourselves, we're gonna have some change and then we go straight to In-N-Out Burger. And, you know, it's, it's, uh, here I am in my first level of, of trying to figure it out, okay, I'll just not eat red meat at In-N-Out Burger. So, I remember the, one of the first things I did was, I just didn't have the, the, uh, hamburger, I went with the grilled cheese, you know? Okay, here's a, one small step for man. And, um, uh, uh, I remember having the conversation with the bandmates there, okay, I'm gonna try to do this 51% raw thing and, and they're of course, uh, supportive, but, you know,

• 39:45Speaker 01

  everybody on the road has so many wild hairs about things that they're getting into that it's just a, oh, somebody else is into something crazy now.

• 39:52Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 39:53Speaker 01

  So, uh, from then on, it was, uh, you know, slowly you just, you, uh, red meat and refined sugars and things like that were kind of the first to fall off. Uh, soda and any, you know, Diet Coke's artificial sweeteners were, were, uh, were at the top of it, uh, next. And then it was, uh, I'm eating more lean proteins and, and, uh, vegetable protein sources. So chicken, uh, chicken was next. Um, uh, especially after I read, uh, John, Jonathan Safran Foerier's book, uh, Eating Animals, or I think that's what it was called.

• 40:28Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 40:28Speaker 01

  Uh, uh, at that point, so I lo- I lost, uh, I lost any desire for, for chicken. And then, uh, you know, one day it's just, hey, I have Greek yogurt once a week. Uh, and then just kind of dropped that and here we are.

• 40:42Rich Roll?

  You woke up one day and you're like, oh my God, I'm a vegan.

• 40:46Speaker 01

  I know. And it's still, it's, it's still even, uh, you know, it's still kind of funny. I've, uh, I've adopted from you, uh, you know, I using the term plant-based because, you know, there is so much when you say, oh, I'm a vegan. Well, that means I'm, uh, you know, I'm, I'm doing, I'm doing animal protests on the, the, the steps of the Capitol building in Nashville.

• 41:07Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yeah. I mean, it's just a, it's a more neutral term and, you know, I have a, you know, I have the good fortune of living in Los Angeles and it's a very open-minded community when it comes to that kind of thing. I mean, what is that like in Nashville or in the South? I mean, if you were to walk around with a T-shirt that said, you know, I'm a vegan or, you know, what, what kind of response would you be, would you get?

• 41:31Speaker 01

  Uh, I think in, in Nashville, we, we, you know, we're, uh, we're, we have our share of, of, uh, trendy places. We're starting to get, you know, there's two, two vegetarian restaurants in town now. Uh, but you know, it's still the heart of the country music industry and there's a lot of uh, you know, uh, you know, eating a big steak is part of the industry.

• 41:53Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm. I mean, what about in Mississippi or, you know, Hattiesburg?

• 41:56Speaker 01

  Oh, well, there's, uh, it's, I haven't, I haven't spent much time there with my family cause they've since relocated up to Nashville. But it's, uh, it's very, very difficult and people of, of course look at you weird and, and try to figure out what, what you're doing and why you're doing it. And, um, you know, my father, uh, spent his entire profession in the drug, the drug world. Not the, uh, not the cartel, but, uh, pharmaceutical world.

• 42:25Rich Roll?

  Right, right.

• 42:26Speaker 01

  And so, you know, he's always very reluctant of, you know, hey, we're gonna fix our health with, you know, I'm gonna get rid of my cholesterol by, uh, not eating meat. And he, he's always reluctant. Well, the only thing that can fix that is, you know, Lipitor or, or, you know, some, some drug.

• 42:42Rich Roll?

  Right, which actually doesn't fix anything. It just sort of deals with the symptoms.

• 42:48Speaker 01

  Right. And so, it, it's been, it's been a joy because my, my dad, uh, uh, you know, a number of months ago, uh, called and we had a huge conversation cause he's watched us go through this entire transformation and then really kind of solidified into a lifestyle. Uh, my dad called to say, hey, you know what, I came to a point where I feel like the profession that I was in has been misleading me all these years and I decided to give it a go.

• 43:16Rich Roll?

  Wow, that's huge.

• 43:17Speaker 01

  And so he and his wife both, uh, after ninety days of, of, of, of kind of living a more plant-based diet, uh, both got off their cholesterol and blood pressure medications.

• 43:31Rich Roll?

  That's amazing.

• 43:32Speaker 01

  So, so he has, uh, uh, he hasn't just bought in, but he's seeing the effects and, and, and his life has changed because of it.

• 43:39Rich Roll?

  Yeah, that's an amazing arc when you, when you take somebody who's from that other world that is, you know, propagating a very different message and then he experiences firsthand, uh, you know, a transformation in the other direction. That's amazing.

• 43:53Speaker 01

  And it's powerful, you know, it was, it was, it was, uh, it was reinforcing to me just for him to call and say, I believe, I believe so strongly in what you're doing. I've spent, you know, the last forty years of my life where the only solution was medication and now, uh, I, I think that. Uh, you know, that led me astray. Here I am. This is, this is kind of fixing it. It's really, really, really powerful. Uh, for me who's even living it on a daily basis. So it's, it's a, uh, it's, it's pretty awesome.

• 44:23Rich Roll?

  Amazing. So, all right. So you start blazing this path and the animal products are starting to fall by the wayside as you move forward. And I assume the same is happening for your brother and your mom. I mean, this, this was about three years ago.

• 44:37Speaker 01

  Well, it's a little more than that now. It's probably, I think my mom had her diagnosis in, uh, I wanna say two thousand and seven or eight.

• 44:45Rich Roll?

  Okay.

• 44:46Speaker 01

  Uh, much like you, the dates, uh, the older I get, the harder it is to remember it. But it was a, it was, you know, it was a nice, nice, long, slow transition and, and, uh, uh, like my wife and I got married three years ago. We have our wedding picture in our house and, uh, you know, I started this journey. I was two hundred and thirty pounds. When we got married, I was two hundred. And so I was thirty pounds down and, uh, you know, and now I'm, I'm, uh, one sixty-five or so. And so another, you know, thirty-five pounds or whatever it is down from there.

• 45:19Rich Roll?

  That's amazing.

• 45:20Speaker 01

  You know, it's just slow, steady thing and the, uh, it, it's not like I, uh, it's not like there was a level of, okay, I just need to eat six hundred calories a day. It was, I'm just gonna eat plants and vegetables and things that are, that are real foods and my body kind of just self-regulated. It just said, this is where I'm comfortable. Uh, it just stopped losing weight and, uh, it's, it's been, it's been, it's been a, a slow process that's been really, really, uh, it's been amazing to see.

• 45:51Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it's, I mean, a couple of things. I mean, first of all, looking at your before and after pictures on the internet, like, you, you don't even look like the same person at all. Like, I, I'm like, are you sure that's the same guy? Like, you, you rea- you look so dramatically different. I mean, the change is, is extraordinary. And then I love what you said about, um,

• 46:12Rich Roll?

  You know, this idea of it being not a starvation protocol, or watching, you know, limiting myself to 600 calories. I mean, it's really a lifestyle switch. And it was one that didn't happen overnight, and one that it sounds like you didn't really make too many rules about. You just were slowly kind of moving in a better direction over an extended period of time, and allowed your body to kind of adapt and acclimate to this new way of eating. And so it's just part of who you are. It doesn't involve like a lot of thought after time. It's not like, people say to me all the time, "Well, you know, what's your percentage of this to that to this? And how many calories of this?" And, you know, they get really up in their head and very technical about it. And, you know, my message is always,

• 46:55Rich Roll?

  "Well, just start eating, you know, more vegetables and fruits, and you will balance out. You know, you don't have to stress yourself out with all of these equations. Just do more of this, and your body will, like you said, self-regulate."

• 47:09Speaker 01

  And I really, you know, I really, what I found was, was, as I was going on that, on that journey, it was, it was not that I felt drastically different. You know, it's not like you lose 10 pounds and you go, "Oh, I feel so much different now." It's happening slowly, you don't know. Until you, you go somewhere and they're serving dessert, and you, you eat something, and you eat too much of it, and then you wake up the next day and go, "Gosh, is this how I felt every day? You know, is this, was this my normal?" And then, especially now, I have this, I have all these theories that I call guitar player science,

• 47:50Speaker 01

  where I just, I try to, to use my, my limited, you know, I don't know my multiplication tables anymore, but I can, I can figure out the world of highly complex nutrition and evolution. I just feel like now, I've, I've stayed off so much sugar and so much, you know, just simple white, you know, white stuff, whether it's flowers or, or any of that stuff, that when I do stumble upon something... That's super sweet if, if you know we're somewhere and they have a treat and I decide to try it. Um, then it turns on something deeply carnal and deeply evolutionary in me and I started thinking about it. It's like, you know, back in the day, a gazillion million years ago, uh, prehistoric man is, is fumbling through the wilderness.

• 48:34Speaker 01

  And it's very rare that he stumbles upon something as sweet as a Krispy Kreme. Or, uh, you know, uh, uh, you know, maybe, maybe they find a beehive and it's filled with honey. Or, you know, it's just, uh, in nature, there's nothing that's sweet and that concentrated. So I think, you know, uh, they're wired to say, hey, we found this. We need to eat as much of it as we can because who knows when we'll find it again.

• 48:59Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm.

• 49:00Speaker 01

  And I sense in myself, you know, that that's, uh, is deeply wired into my DNA. It's like, okay, we're at a cocktail party and I had a cookie. And then it triggers that deep thing and then the next thing I know, I've had forty-seven cookies. And I'm sick and the next day I'm, uh, having a nice reminder of why I don't need to be doing that.

• 49:19Rich Roll?

  Right, but there's that primal sort of thing that takes over that's beyond the thinking mind. That says, store the chestnuts, you know, take as much of this stuff in as possible. We don't know when we're gonna get it next.

• 49:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely. And it's really, it's, it's overpowering for me at times, so I have to be really aware of it. It's, uh, you know, it's really fascinating as we, as we kind of, we, we, we were lucky to have some kind of real world examples. As we were trying some of the stuff, you know, and I think it's not, it hasn't been, uh, well, let me read this on the internet. It might be Hocus Pocus and I'll give it a shot. Everything that we've done along the way has had, you know, benchmarks that have, that have been real and true. So my mom had, uh, uh, when she had her colon cancer, they did a, uh, you know, they go in and they just lop off a huge, uh, section of her colon.

• 50:10Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm.

• 50:11Speaker 01

  And, uh, at the time she had kind of straightened out her diet. And, uh, after year one, after. After a surgery, she has to go in and they have to check out. Uh, she gets her scans, they see, okay, are there any signs of cancer there? How you doing? Is it healing? Is it, is it, uh, you know, anything we're looking for? She gets there and does her scans and she has so much inflammation around her, uh, uh, uh, colon where they sectioned it back together that, that the doctors can't, uh, they can't tell. So then they have to go in and scope and stick the camera up there and go sort it out. And they finally go, wow, yeah, it's healing. It's hugely inflamed.

• 50:52Speaker 01

  Um, uh, we're gonna do the scans in six months, uh, just so we can be sure. Well, right around that same time is when we were starting this, this transition. We had, we had gone kind of, uh, vegetarian at that point in time, but we still were doing, uh, gluten and wheat and, and, uh, you know, a lot of those type of things. And we said, let's, let's, uh, let's give this a shot. Apparently, you know, too much gluten is supposed to have some inflammatory responses in us. So let's just get rid of that and see what happens.

• 51:23Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 51:24Speaker 01

  So, um, my mom decided, okay, I'll go gluten free. And she, she fought that one. Uh, that, that was a fight there. That was one of the ones where we said, we're gonna do this and it became a fight. But she did it. And six months later, she goes in for her scans and the doctors said, what the heck? It's, it's, uh, it's clear as a bell.

• 51:46Rich Roll?

  Wow.

• 51:47Speaker 01

  There's no reason for us to do anything. Um, and the only, only change was, uh, no gluten. And so for us, that was enough to say, huh, maybe there's, you know, we might not have celiac, but there's enough to this that, that says, you know, our joints and our tissues and, and things, uh, are happier without it. So let's, uh, let's keep going without it.

• 52:11Rich Roll?

  Yeah, that's quite amazing. I mean, uh, to, to see that equation between what you're taking into your body and how your body responds to it, it, it's a really powerful thing. You know, I mean, it's, there's no, there's no way around recognizing the impact of that.

• 52:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, and that's why I think we got so lucky, so lucky that, that as we were doing this, my mom was kind of still in the middle of, of her regular doctor's visits. And so they were, you know, they were able to check her out, her vitals along the way. And we're able, we're able to say, oh, my goodness, this is working. You're seeing it in the weight that you're losing, but you're also seeing it from blood tests and, and, you know, pet scans and, and, and, you know, big time science. So it was pretty, it was a pretty good motivator along the way.

• 53:09Rich Roll?

  So, so walk me through what happened with her cancer?

• 53:13Speaker 01

  She, when she, you know, she had just some of the normal, she's had irritable bowel stuff kind of all of her life. And got to a point where she said, okay, something's really up. She goes in, they check her out. They, and at the time, she just had a colonoscopy scheduled. And so they, they go in for that, find, find some, some polyps, do the, you know, the normal biopsy and say, oh, it's cancerous. And, you know, I didn't know how it worked. You know, I didn't know that you go in for a colonoscopy and, and they can snip it and kind of tell you in the moment. So you go in thinking, I'm just getting this done. And you leave an hour later and they say, oh, you've got cancer.

• 53:59Speaker 01

  So she finds that out. And then the next series of tests and the scans and everything that goes on. And she had a little bit of, just a touch of, of kind of leaching into her lymph stuff. So I think she was a, a, a two, maybe A or B, I don't know which one it is, stage two, you know. So she was past stage one, which is enough for us to go, oh. So she went, you know, we didn't, at the point, that point in time, she just went full traditional route. She did, you know, chemo, radiation, ended up having surgery and having all of the

• 54:39Speaker 01

  All the bad junk removed and more rounds of chemo and radiation and then she did she did oral chemo for you know who knows how many months after that but this was she's a she was a school teacher she taught high school for 40 years and she went to school every day and I mean it's I no understanding of how she how she survived and how she did it and how she pulled through just as far as going to school but um yeah she so slowly over that that's when we started going to get this diet right and figure some things

• 55:19Speaker 01

  out and you know it's difficult you can't make you can't just you can't just wake up one day and and then stick you on chemo and radiation and say you know what the only thing I want to eat today is salad because I I think at that point your body says you know what uh the only thing we're gonna let you eat is bread or you can have a potato because she could she couldn't hold anything else down so and it's amazing to see the thing that my brother and I really kind of stuck to was okay what is the doctor telling you to eat you know there's gotta be some some science to it the doctor's gonna be telling you to eat broccoli because broccoli you know helps you get rid of cancer or whatever

• 55:59Speaker 01

  and the doctor's like well whatever you know you know don't eat uh don't eat Metamucil or anything too fibrous but anything

• 56:12Rich Roll?

  Whoops hello

• 56:14Speaker 01

  Nutritional guidance or advice or anything

• 56:16Rich Roll?

  I lost you there for a second

• 56:19Speaker 01

  Okay

• 56:20Rich Roll?

  So he so that basically the doctor but what I'm gathering is that the doctor was not hugely inspirational when it came to what she should or should not eat

• 56:31Speaker 01

  No not not even not even the slide spin so it came down to us and the beacon of all truth Wikipedia for how we're gonna figure out what to do

• 56:44Rich Roll?

  And this was this was before Forks Over Knives came out

• 56:47Speaker 01

  Yeah yeah it was

• 56:49Rich Roll?

  And you start looking at some of the stuff online, especially in the cancer context. And you know, there's a lot of fringe stuff out there. I mean, you start to feel like some kind of crazy conspiracy theorist.

• 57:02Speaker 01

  Oh, absolutely. I mean, you're trying to decide, you know, okay, we've just read about such and such, or read about such and such, and I guess it could work, you know.

• 57:12Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 57:13Speaker 01

  You know.

• 57:14Rich Roll?

  I mean, did you think, I mean, did you start to think about things like the Gerson therapy and some of these kind of outdated or, you know, sort of protocols that people still do, or, you know, things where people go out of the country to get procedures or protocols that aren't exactly fully legal in the United States?

• 57:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, 100%. You know, and we were, she was already deep into her treatment by the time we kind of stumbled upon Gerson and stumbled upon some of the clinics that are doing some of those things. But at the time, we had, we had gotten to this kind of 51% raw theory that we were starting to live by. And so some of those things did kind of start to make sense and were things that we investigated. And fortunately, by the time we really got the knowledge of it, she was kind of in the clear with it.

• 58:06Rich Roll?

  Right. So, but eventually she basically adopts this plant-based way of eating, right?

• 58:14Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm. And, you know, we're coming from, like you said, the South. So, we're coming from the land of the meat and three, where you have meat is the centerpiece and you have butter with vegetable highlights is basically what you're, you know, what you're eating.

• 58:35Rich Roll?

  And was she, but was she open to doing this? Or was she resistant, or just so willing because of her condition?

• 58:42Speaker 01

  You know, I think, uh, I think, uh, for a while, honestly, uh, she watched my brother and I uh, start down the road and she was just eating whatever she could. She was just, uh, you know, I'm on chemo and the thought of eating, uh, what you guys are eating, uh, I can't handle it right now.

• 59:03Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 59:04Speaker 01

  And so, um, uh, so she did a ton of, like I said, just basic, plain, you know, rice and potatoes and, uh, stuff that her, her gut could handle. But, but once, once her, her stomach kinda stabilized, then she was on board with us. And you know, we kind of, uh, at the time, uh, oh, I'd gotten my brother to move to Nashville. And so he was here and then we went on the mad push to, to get her up here. Uh, because I think, uh, uh, we talked to her cancer doctor and got her cancer doctor on board. To say basically, hey, you can, you can, you can keep teaching school, you can keep doing the things that you're doing, but you're not gonna, you're not gonna be able to slow down enough to heal, so.

• 59:47Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 59:48Speaker 01

  Come up here to Nashville, let us take care of you. And so, uh, I think honestly, I believe, I believe so much in the power of community and just getting her here and, and establishing family and, and those things, I think have been so, so, so powerful, just in her healing.

• 1:00:04Rich Roll?

  Right, that's great. So, so where is she now with everything?

• 1:00:09Speaker 01

  She is doing awesome. She, we, uh, we mandated a Tuesday night family dinner. And so for the past several years, every Tuesday night, when, uh, when we're all in town, or if we're not, it's, uh, dinner at my mom's house. It's, uh, turned into be a full vegan, full gluten-free shindig. And now it's turned into everybody, uh, you know, friends of ours from tour come, or hey, friends that I meet at, you know, master swim class now, or just whoever. But she's really taken it on and become, uh, hugely passionate about, uh, about, uh, about transitioning a lot of the recipes that we grew up eating, or that my grandmother passed on,

• 1:00:51Speaker 01

  or, you know, baked goods, or, or any of those things. She's transitioned them, so she does, uh, she's found wonderful substitutes for.

• 1:01:00Speaker 01

  All kinds of bread and pastries and vegetable dishes and um uh uh just ways to do them that are that are uh super healthy, super clean, super light. And to be honest, I I don't feel like I've eaten this well in my entire life.

• 1:01:16Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:01:16Speaker 01

  And it's uh uh you know, and it's we we we sit and gather around food and it's uh it's one of those things where it's uh I know that it's rejuvenating food and and not you're not worried about all the other junk that's in it.

• 1:01:30Rich Roll?

  Right, I love it. And uh and so she she's in full remission now?

• 1:01:34Speaker 01

  She is. So she's uh they they they just um they just flipped her over to now uh you know, there's they require scans at six months and they require scans at a year and they know so uh they've uh they've lengthened it out and her she just got the clear from her last scan and so uh they don't they don't want to see her back for a while. So we're pretty happy about that.

• 1:01:56Rich Roll?

  That's great. I mean, I think that, you know, when you look at heart disease and when you look at diabetes, uh and you kind of address that from a lifestyle or diet perspective, people can wrap their brain around that. It's like, hey, if you don't exercise and you smoke and you eat terrible, like, you're probably gonna get heart disease, right? And if you wanna reverse that or not get that, then you have to change your habits. Um because you kind of bring that upon yourself. But cancer is a very different animal. Um you know, people get cancer because they get it, you know what I mean?

• 1:02:30Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:02:31Rich Roll?

  Sometimes it's, you know, attributable to some kind of decision they made or a lifestyle, but more often than not, it's just, you know, you were exposed to some toxins or you had a genetic predisposition or it just happens. It's not a judgment

• 1:02:43Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:02:44Rich Roll?

  call on somebody's, you know, lifestyle patterns. And when you talk about dealing with cancer uh with dietary protocols, that becomes a very heightened

• 1:02:56Rich Roll?

  Conversation emotionally, you know what I mean?

• 1:02:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:59Rich Roll?

  Like you could talk about heart disease and diet, no problem. People get that. But when we start getting into the cancer discussion, then it becomes a whole different animal. And I guess my question is, do you run into that? Or do people get defensive about that in any way?

• 1:03:16Speaker 01

  You know, I think it's always been our, our, our goal and our mindset is, you know, we're, we don't want to be evangelists for, for what we're doing, you know? We, it's, it's, if someone wants to know, then absolutely. And I'm, I'm more than excited to share, man, the food we're eating is delicious. And since I'm not eating processed food, I can actually taste different things now. You know, it all doesn't taste the same. So I think, you know, it's, we haven't, we haven't seen a lot of, uh, uh, you know, a lot of people with, uh, you know, wondering what the heck we're doing and are you, are we witch doctors or something like that?

• 1:03:59Speaker 01

  Uh, just because I think they, they, most people know us from when we were less healthy and now they see us as more healthy and they go, huh? So it's kind of turned into more, uh, asking questions, you know? Hey, what are you guys doing? What do you think about this? You know, what's the simple thing? And it's, uh, we've once again taken the same approach that worked with us and it's, it's, it's not a, oh my gosh, you know, red meat's going to give you cancer.

• 1:04:22Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:04:22Speaker 01

  It's, it's a, you know, we really enjoy this. Maybe try adding some more of that. It's been really great for us. My energy's great or my, my, my brain, uh, works well relative to me.

• 1:04:33Rich Roll?

  What was the conversation like when you went back to your doctor after having lost 70 pounds and, and him sort of taking, you know, taking the blood and seeing where your cholesterol is at and, and all of that?

• 1:04:46Speaker 01

  Well, my cholesterol, between the time, my two doctor visits, my cholesterol had dropped, uh, well over a hundred points and.

• 1:04:55Speaker 01

  And so, uh, I hadn't seen him since the, you know, the year prior when I did my physical. And so I go in and he's, he's in shock. And, uh, so we do all the blood work and then I go back to do the results for that. And he's like, you know, honestly, I'm at a point where I'm, I'm kind of having trouble believing this. And then he started asking me questions and started saying, you know, I've been really trying to do some things with my diet. And I've been trying to do this. What do you think about this? What do you think about, what do you think about this? And then he said, if I have some, some patients that are really struggling with this, do you mind if I put them in touch with you?

• 1:05:36Speaker 01

  And I'm, I'm thinking, man, all I did was start eating more fruits and vegetables and now I get to be a doctor. This is awesome.

• 1:05:42Rich Roll?

  Right, right. He's like, do I get to charge what you charge?

• 1:05:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:05:48Speaker 01

  Uh, but you know, it's a, and I think the other piece of it is, you know, that was a number of years ago. And, uh, you know, when I go in for my physical every year and, and I step on the scale and I'm roughly, you know, within a pound of where I was the year before. Uh, and it, and to him, it's like, this is a lifestyle change. This is not just a, you didn't get on FinFinn and now you've lost, you know, 70 pounds or, you know, you're sprinkling something on your food or whatever.

• 1:06:15Rich Roll?

  Right. I think that's the most powerful thing is that, is that ability to, you know, maintain the ideal weight over time, over a number of years. And, uh, you just don't see that on other kind of protocols.

• 1:06:28Speaker 01

  Yeah. And it's something that honestly has been in the back of my mind, you know? It's one of those things where I think, uh, you know, uh, I don't wanna, I don't wanna fall off the wagon and, and wake up, uh, you know, wake up one day and I've got 70 pounds gained back. And so it's, it's, uh, whether that's mentally healthy or not for me, I, you know, who knows? But it's one of those things that, that, uh, doesn't motivate me, but it's one of those things that, that I think about. And then, uh, just to, just to, just to know that I go about my life, eating what I wanna eat, eating when I'm hungry and not thinking or worrying about it. And then the scale is standing still is, is, is pretty powerful.

• 1:07:07Rich Roll?

  So where does, uh, where does Iron Man come in?

• 1:07:12Speaker 01

  Um, a log, uh, man, it's a slippery slope. For all of those out there, Iron Man is a slippery slope. Yeah. Um, uh, around shortly after the shortly after the the time of my mom's diagnosis, maybe within, you know, six months to a year, you know, stuff started getting wacky in the Sugarland world. We we were performing at the Indiana State Fair and, uh, uh, a giant, uh, a giant storm came in suddenly and and, uh, this, uh, we had stage collapse and and several people lost their lives, uh, because of that. So it was, it was, uh, Where was that? It was in Indiana, it was in Indianapolis. It was the Indiana State Fair.

• 1:07:55Speaker 01

  And so, uh, as a, as a community, you know, we're traveling on the road and we're, you know, we're family out there. We live together. We, you know, we're on buses together. We eat every meal together. And this is, you know, the thirty or forty people that are on our tour.

• 1:08:11Speaker 01

  So within, within, um, uh, within a month or so of that happening, uh, uh, our guitar tech, a long time guitar tech, uh, was was having some health problems on the road. And then when you're on the road, they have something called a rock doc, which is, you know, a doctor that they can call in town who'll come to the to the local hockey arena and say, oh, uh, you've got a, you know, a strip. Here's a Z-Pak. And, um, so he would, he was, he was having all kinds of symptoms and and, um, uh, saw several rock docs on the road. And then eventually one, one doctor comes in and says, I know what it is. You've got diverticulitis. Mm hmm.

• 1:08:55Speaker 01

  So we're like, okay, good. At least we know it's diverticulitis. That's, uh, but he ended up still having symptoms. We were in Scranton, Pennsylvania, and, uh, he started having some pretty major issues. Went to the hospital. They ran tests and and, uh, uh, bam, you've got lymphoma. It's, it's highly, uh, highly evolved already. You can't go back to the tour. You have to stay here. And so he goes, and he's one of these people that you said, you know, you said you can live a lifestyle and, you know, uh, uh, cancer, you just get it. And he's one of those guys, he lived in Flagstaff, Arizona. He ate like a hippie.

• 1:09:38Speaker 01

  Uh, he, uh, was a super healthy guy, uh, you know, no, uh, nothing. It's just out of the blue, bam, he's got it. And, uh, he did, he did, uh, he did, he did treatment for, um, and then, uh,

• 1:09:56Rich Roll?

  But it was already like stage four or something like that at that point?

• 1:09:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was, yeah, it was, he was really far along. They stabilized it and we thought, everything's okay. So he came back out on the road and then we had our winter break and, uh, this is when about six months of his diagnosis. During the winter break, it came on again pretty aggressively and he passed away over the winter break. So, uh, my wife and I just said, we need to, we need to do something. We need to get involved. We live a life that's, you know, we're kind of isolated. We live on our own. We live amongst our little, our little tribe as we travel around. Uh, we've got to figure out a way to give back. We've got to figure out a way to get involved and, and, uh, use, use, uh, this wonderful

• 1:10:42Speaker 01

  gift of the music industry to, to, to share with other people, uh, uh, uh, uh, you know, encourage them in whatever ways that we can. And so as a kid, I'd grown up, uh, seeing the Iron Man on TV and I thought, okay, I know what I'll do. I'll call Iron Man and say, hey, I'm this dude who lost some weight and now I wanna, uh, become an Iron Man and work with the Iron Man Foundation. And, uh, here we go. And so, uh, they had the same response that you kind of did where they, I call them up, they look on, online at my pictures and say, uh, whatever, there's no way this dude's doing an Iron Man.

• 1:11:25Rich Roll?

  Because of the diet or because you're just on tour all the time? There's no way this guy's gonna be able to train and get rest?

• 1:11:31Speaker 01

  Well, they were, they were looking at my before pictures.

• 1:11:34Rich Roll?

  Oh, I see.

• 1:11:35Speaker 01

  So they, they're putting it all together like, okay, so you're telling me that you're touring all the time? And you're, uh, this guy we see in these before pictures. And so they, you know, it was a really slow kind of process. Uh, and eventually they, we were, uh, we were playing in Tampa and the world headquarters for Iron Man or WCC is in Tampa. So I said, why don't you come by the office? And so, uh, and they said, we're, we'll go to lunch and their offices are right on the beach and you can, uh, you can go swim and stuff. So I said, bring your swimsuit. So I'm, okay. So I go to the offices and, uh, we have a nice chat and they carry me out to the, to the water.

• 1:12:20Speaker 01

  And I think, uh, and I know now because I've had the conversation is basically they were, uh, okay, if we're gonna get involved with this dude, we need to see if, if, uh, if he can hang or not.

• 1:12:31Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:12:31Speaker 01

  So they stick me in the water with a bunch of the, uh, folks from the office to do like a, uh, you know, a trial swim to see if I can hang or not.

• 1:12:40Rich Roll?

  This is your interview?

• 1:12:42Speaker 01

  This is, yeah, it's basically my interview for Iron Man stuff and, and, uh, I got lucky because, because, uh, swimming is, uh, uh, was the only thing I was reasonably strong at at the time. And so apparently I passed and I ended up partnering with the Iron Man Foundation.

• 1:12:58Rich Roll?

  But at this point, you hadn't even started training or hadn't identified a race or hadn't even done a triathlon at all? I mean, where were you in the kind of evolution? We, we talked about losing the weight and the diet, but where were you fitness wise?

• 1:13:11Speaker 01

  Uh, I had, I'd done a sprint triathlon in college, uh, some, you know, uh, some 15 years ago. Uh, but I was a musician on the road who's trying to lose weight in shape, which means, uh, uh, I could knock out a P90 video in the dressing room or I could, uh, I could, I could, uh, take one of the comfort bikes off the, off the, uh, the, uh, the trucks and ride around the bike path around the university that we're playing at. So it was, uh, it was definitely. Uh, nowhere near any level of compete uh or even race in an Iron Man shape.

• 1:13:52Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:13:53Speaker 01

  So it was uh, kinda hit the ground.

• 1:13:57Rich Roll?

  So they said, okay, let's do something together. I mean, they were interested after that?

• 1:14:01Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm. And uh, so we ended up uh doing an initiative to support Music Cares. And uh, Music Cares is uh the, it's basically the nonprofit wing of the Grammy Association. And they don't do any press, they don't, they don't do any kind of PR for it. So ve- very many, uh very few people know it even exists. But when Kevin, our guitar tech, had cancer, he didn't have health insurance. And uh, we put him in touch with Music Cares and Music Cares says, we got it. And so Music Cares goes in and covers all of the expenses for his treatment. And they've done that for countless, countless musicians throughout the years.

• 1:14:39Rich Roll?

  Right, wow.

• 1:14:40Speaker 01

  So we, we got involved and, and just went on a uh, uh campaign to raise, to raise funds for Music Cares through the vehicle of the Iron Man, the Iron Man Foundation.

• 1:14:51Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm. So it was strictly just to raise money for Music Cares for them to do with it as they, as they would with the programs they already had in place?

• 1:14:59Speaker 01

  And basically, it was uh, uh, my wife and I said, let's do, do what we can to uh, uh, just to, to pay back whatever we can on Kevin's, uh, Kevin's uh, medical stuff.

• 1:15:11Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:15:13Speaker 01

  So uh, you know, and then uh, we just got involved. We enjoyed doing, doing the uh, uh, not only the event, but you know, just everything that went along with it. So we ended up going to Iron Man, uh, Arizona. That was the first one that I did. Uh, that would be almost a year ago. And had a great time.

• 1:15:30Rich Roll?

  You just skipped over a huge chapter though, which is how did you get ready to raise an Iron Man while you were touring and everything else that was going on?

• 1:15:39Speaker 01

  Well, you know, everybody asks that question and uh uh we can, we can, I'll answer this in two parts. One is this year, we haven't been on the road and I've had to do it while being at home. And so the question I ask is how in the world does anybody come close to training for an Ironman? When they have kids and they have a job and they have all this other stuff. That's what I don't understand. For me, it was, it, it, it, it became amazingly easy and I'm, I, I count my blessings and realize how blessed I was. That I, I don't know that I'd be doing it this year if I had to do it while I was home.

• 1:16:15Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:16:15Speaker 01

  Uh, but being on the road, you know, our obligations, one of the first questions you asked was, uh, talk about the mundane life of the, on the road and it's like, well, here's the rock star life. I wake up on a tour bus and I find, try to find something to do in this hockey arena all day until four o'clock sound check.

• 1:16:34Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:16:34Speaker 01

  You know, and so, uh, it actually became, uh, it kind of became something to do. And, uh, it was, okay, now I gotta go run and I, I gotta, uh, I gotta find a YMCA or a Jewish, Jewish community center or somewhere that has a pool. I gotta go swim laps and, uh.

• 1:16:52Rich Roll?

  Do you have your bike on the bus?

• 1:16:54Speaker 01

  I ended up throwing my bike on the bay of a bus and it was, uh, uh, I can get a, get a, you know, get out a, a map and, and say, okay, from this venue, I can get here safely and, and, uh, go for a bike ride. And then, and, uh, I had my trainer, uh, my bike trainer on the bus and so, so it's, you know, uh, uh, there were countless times where I would set, set the trainer up on the, on the bay of the, uh, or on the, uh, in the back lounge of the tour bus. So I'm on my trainer in the bus. I can remember, uh, one day very, very vividly where, uh, I, I had this, uh, you know, I had to go for my long bike ride, which at the time, you know, it's like a long bike ride. It's probably like 40 miles or something.

• 1:17:35Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:17:37Speaker 01

  And we were playing in, uh, South Dakota at the Sturgis Motorcycle Rally.

• 1:17:43Rich Roll?

  Oh, wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:17:46Speaker 01

  So here we are. It's, you know, it hasn't rained in months. It's a dust bowl and there's literally, you know, uh, 500,000 dudes with chaps and Harley-Davidsons.

• 1:17:59Rich Roll?

  Is it that many people that show up for that?

• 1:18:02Speaker 01

  I think it's close to that number as they all just kind of ride through there during the weeks. So we're, uh, we're, the bus is parked behind the stage. On the bill that night is us and ZZ Top.

• 1:18:14Rich Roll?

  Oh, yeah, yeah. Nice.

• 1:18:16Speaker 01

  So I'm like, this is awesome. I mean, this is, this is what it's all about, you know, rock and roll motorcycles and, uh, ZZ Top and we're doing this right. So, um, then I realized, oh, uh, I gotta go do my bike ride today. And so I'm thinking it through going, I gotta be the dude who puts on his, uh, spandex shorts and pulls out his little bicycle and rides through Sturgis. So, uh,

• 1:18:49Rich Roll?

  Oh, man.

• 1:18:51Speaker 01

  That ended up being a day where I, uh, I opted to take the bike trainer into the back lounge of the bus and hide, uh, from.

• 1:18:57Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it might have been a good idea to be on the back roads with all those guys cruising around, but I would think that touring around and having that free time in the early part of the day would be such an amazing way to see America. You get to get out on your bike and do a ride around some new place, literally almost every day.

• 1:19:17Speaker 01

  And that, that's, that's what it was. And like I said, being on the road for so long for, you know, uh, 15, 16 years at that point. And, uh, uh, you know, my familiarity with cities, unless we had a day off there was, uh, you know, you go to Kansas City. Oh, I can tell you where the, uh, dressing rooms are in the Sprint Center, but I don't know anything about Kansas City.

• 1:19:38Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:19:38Speaker 01

  You know, or, or anything else like that. So it turned into this wonderful. Uh, wonderful adventure where I'm just setting off on my bike and you you get to see these awesome cities and you find little areas in town where they might have, you know, the main street area with the the local restaurants. And so I could go back and tell everybody and then we could walk, walk into town or get a ride into town to to see people or same with the pool, you know, and then you meet, you meet uh awesome new folks and it turned out to it turned out to be such a, just a rich, rich experience, just kind of uh, you know, scary, you know, got lost plenty of times. So I got, had to call back to the venue and and uh, get a runner.

• 1:20:18Rich Roll?

  Come pick me up.

• 1:20:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like, this is where I think I am.

• 1:20:24Rich Roll?

  Or get stuck with a flat tire somewhere in the middle of nowhere.

• 1:20:27Speaker 01

  Yes, and so it was, it was a lot of things like that or like, uh, you know, you get to the venue the first thing in the morning and uh, I know that my only time to make it to the, cause they have, you know, we have a, a a couple of locals at the show every day that have, have uh, have vans and they, they, they're there to uh, you know, some bolts broke on a certain trussing, so they have to go pick that stuff up. Or the, the truck drivers need to get to the hotel so they can sleep or the caterers are out of whatever, they need to go get that. So these people are like running important tour errands all day long. And so I'm like trying to find windows where I'm looking at the runner sheet going, okay, this guy's going to, going to the safe way.

• 1:21:10Speaker 01

  Uh, and then he's going to Lowe's and maybe I can get him to drop me off at the YMCA on the way. And it was a, uh, you know, it was really, it really ended up being uh, you know, super, super, super fun way to kind of go on the road and tour.

• 1:21:32Rich Roll?

  So how long did you train for the Arizona Ironman, which you did last, that was last November, right?

• 1:21:39Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm. I, I started training for, for Ironman Arizona on the road. Uh, and we started rehearsals in Atlanta at the, the first week of February. And I started uh, around that time and we got off the road uh, like the third week of October. So I had maybe two to three weeks of training at home after that, that I didn't do on the road.

• 1:22:05Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:22:05Speaker 01

  So.

• 1:22:06Rich Roll?

  That's great.

• 1:22:07Speaker 01

  The bulk of it. Yeah, it was great.

• 1:22:08Rich Roll?

  Showed up at, and you rocked it.

• 1:22:11Speaker 01

  I.

• 1:22:12Rich Roll?

  How was, how was the race? Tell us about the race.

• 1:22:15Speaker 01

  It was great. It was, you know, I, I, I learned, I learned a lot of things quickly and, and about the triathlon community. I learned that the, you know, musicians, we have guitar pedals and switches and doodads and bells and whistles and, you know, tons of effects and knobs and all that stuff. And then I go to the triathlon world and realize that musicians.

• 1:22:38Rich Roll?

  It's the same thing.

• 1:22:39Speaker 01

  But we have nothing on them. It's like, you're seriously, we're, so we're.

• 1:22:45Rich Roll?

  It's a black hole, a never ending pursuit of equipment, right?

• 1:22:49Speaker 01

  Yeah. And then you, it's like, at least I know with this guitar pedal, it makes this terrible screeching sound versus if I get this set of wheels, then I saved 100 grams.

• 1:23:00Rich Roll?

  Well, I mean, if you're anything like Stuart, I mean, there's my brother in law. I mean, there's, there's no such thing as too many guitars or too many pedals or.

• 1:23:07Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:23:08Rich Roll?

  You know, I mean, he's got an entire room full of stuff and I would imagine you probably have something like that.

• 1:23:13Speaker 01

  That's the curse that I've carried over.

• 1:23:16Rich Roll?

  Do you have a studio in your house or you have a studio you use in, in town? Or how does that work?

• 1:23:21Speaker 01

  We, uh, we, we, we started collecting stuff. Like you said, I collected guitars and doodads over the years and started doing projects. And when we got married, uh, uh, the house that I was living in before we got married had almost been fully taken over by a studio that we had kind of set up there. So I was kind of living in the midst of a studio. And then we got married and I moved, uh, my wife and I got a place together. We just left, uh, my old house as our studio.

• 1:23:51Rich Roll?

  Oh, gotcha. That works. That's good.

• 1:23:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:23:54Rich Roll?

  And where, where is your wife on this whole thing? I mean, is she adopted the plant-based lifestyle as well? Or she's got her own thing going on?

• 1:24:02Speaker 01

  My wife is what we like to call an opportunivore. So she, uh, at home, we're, uh, we're full goat. We're, uh, you know, uh, she's, she's fully in, we, you know, uh, she's, she's, all the meals at the house are vegan. But if we're on a, on a music business dinner and we go to Ruth Chris, then she's probably gonna want to do some sampling of uh, some other stuff. But you know, she, she grew up in New Orleans with a shellfish allergy. So she, she knows the uh, she's good at dealing with uh, being in a place known for awesome stuff and going, "Ugh, that'll make me sick." So it's, it's been easy for her.

• 1:24:46Speaker 01

  Um, but the, I think the transition like with the triathlon stuff was, was uh, it, it, it became apparent really quickly that this has to be, this has to be a family decision. You know, we're on the road doing this together and if we don't, if, if she's not uh, on board, then uh, you know, it's a no-go, cause it's tough, as you know.

• 1:25:11Rich Roll?

  It is, and you know, I get emails all the time from people saying, you know, "I'd love to do this," or "I'm trying to do it, but my boyfriend, or my girlfriend, or my spouse, you know, they're, they're not so into it." Like, how do you navigate that? And uh, you know, I'm lucky, like yourself, my wife is, you know, an amazing cook and she's on board and the whole thing, so. I've never had to experience that directly, but I think it just, it's not that it's not, you know, eminently possible to do it. I think it just takes a little bit more effort and kind of resolve on, on your part to see it through.

• 1:25:46Speaker 01

  Absolutely, and so I'm, I'm, I'm grateful for her every day and we've used, we've used not only the vehicle of Iron Man uh, to help our marriage, uh, but you know, just also the food thing. And uh, you know, these things presented themselves and we're like, "Okay, let's, let's, let's use this kind of as a gift to try some things out." Let's uh, uh, you know, let's, let's use Iron Man as a tool. Um, let it be our tool to, to get in shape, or our tool to eat better, our tool to know that we have to communicate about schedules and uh, Iron Man has been a tool for me to deal with my uh, uh, obsessive compulsive nature or my,

• 1:26:27Speaker 01

  you know, all those things where you realize, uh, you know, I want it to be something that helps me be healthy and health is not just me losing weight, it's mind, body and spirit. And if it's not, if it's not doing that, then it's uh, it's something that's, you know, unhealthy. And so she helps me maintain the balance of all that.

• 1:26:45Rich Roll?

  I love that. I mean, that's, that's definitely the way that I look at it and people will say, "Well, you know, it's so extreme, like, you know, the diet is so extreme and the Ironman thing and all the endurance stuff." It's like, it sounds crazy. But for me, it's part of my lifestyle. And like you said, I mean, I'm, I'm very similar in that the structure, the kind of day-to-day schedule and being on top of that really helps focus me. You know, when I have an athletic goal, then that helps me stay focused on my dietary program to make sure everything's in check and I'm less likely to, you know, make a bad choice or something like that. Like, everything kind of comes into, you know, snaps into focus for me when I'm doing all these things.

• 1:27:28Speaker 01

  And, and for me, it's been, uh, it's been, it's been very much that. And, and the other thing, you know, it's like I said, being on the road, we, your family is, is, is who's on the road with you. And so you come home and you have friends, but it's, it's, uh, you know, it's, you come home for two days and you don't want to go, you know, the last thing I want to do is, is go out all night to shows downtown, or I want to come home and see if my grass needs mowing or, you know. Uh, but the triathlon piece of it became uh, way less about the races and way less about the, that kind of stuff and more about the community that I got to be a part of and what I learned about community and, you

• 1:28:11Speaker 01

  know, the new friends that I made at, you know, at master's class at swim, uh, that I go in and they don't have any clue what I do for a living. Or, you know, the guys from the local bike shop that I, you know, you go and you just make friends with. And it's been, it's been, I'm, I'm just so, so grateful for those pieces of it, uh, that I've gotten from, you know, from this, this whole journey. It's been great.

• 1:28:35Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it's grounding, right?

• 1:28:37Speaker 01

  Absolutely. Yes, absolutely. And for, for us with a life that we fly around so much, it's been, it's been very welcome.

• 1:28:44Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm. So, so where does Music That Moves come in? Like, we've, you talked about raising money for music cares, uh, who took care of your guitar tech and all of that. But at some point, you make this decision to start your own foundation.

• 1:28:58Speaker 01

  Right. Well, I think as we were, as we were starting to see this, we, we started getting such a flood. Uh, we being my wife and I, uh, such a flood of people wanting to know what we're doing and what's going on and why we're doing it. And it was from our community, the music community. And a- as I was training on the road, more and more people started wanting to come along. They wanted to do stuff. Hey, you're going to ride your bike. Can I go for the first little bit? We have, uh, this bike here. Or, hey, can we join you, uh, a- and do some form of exercise today? So the next thing you know, the opening bands are going running and they're, they're, uh, everybody's joining in, or some people go to the pool. And you started seeing that, that, uh, that community piece started to grow. And, uh,

• 1:29:43Speaker 01

  the music community as a whole isn't the most, uh, uh, stereotypically, we're not the, the Health conscious. Yes, we're not the be- we're not the beacons of health, uh, uh, physical or mentally, you know, we, uh, uh, you know, we get, uh, you can just look at the TV and see, we're a kooky bunch of folks. Mm-hmm. Uh, so, uh, I- I started to feel how powerful the community was and, uh, started to really enjoy being a part of a community that was trying to do something beyond just, uh, uh, you know, going and playing shows. And so, uh, we slowly started to think, well,

• 1:30:24Speaker 01

  what if we, what if we do this on our own and we kind of become a music community conduit, a way for people to, to build community outside of music, a way for people to get involved, uh, uh, which we started having all kinds of different opportunities. So, we started, we started next organizing, uh, let's put a team together to run certain local races. And then, uh, whether that's a 5K or, uh, we, we had people do the full marathon, the half marathon in Nashville. And we thought, what if we do it with a, with a service twist? What if we say, okay, we're going for a group run, but we're gonna meet at the, uh, food bank in town. And, uh, we're gonna go for a run, then we're gonna come back and do

• 1:31:08Speaker 01

  a volunteer shift. And so, uh, uh, it just really started to- Started to turn into, let's get the music community focused on, uh, health, mind, body, and spirit. And I think, uh, obviously, being physical and being active is a huge part of the physical piece, but the, the, to me, uh, uh, getting involved in, in some nonprofits and doing some service work and doing things like that became really rewarding and really fulfilling. And, and, uh, I think that, uh, to me, service is something that really helps move you toward kind of getting, um, kind of mentally healthy as well, you know?

• 1:31:45Rich Roll?

  Absolutely, absolutely. I mean, that's awesome. I mean, what kind of, you know, what have you seen in your fellow musicians in terms of the impact that this is, that this is having? I mean, whether it's, you know, bands that you're touring with, or just getting musicians more, thinking more about health and their longevity?

• 1:32:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, I, I think there's, there's countless, countless, countless people that have, that have, uh, uh, it's been very humbling because, you know, just to get an email or to get a story, or, uh, to run into somebody at the, the rec center in Nashville or something that just says, "Hey, I read your story. I saw what you did, uh, from a health perspective, and now I've lost a ton of weight," or "I've done, uh, I've started doing this," or "I got involved running these races." So the health, the health thing is really, uh, it's been really exciting. But the next piece of it is, the way that we're starting to kind of, uh, uh, move with music that moves is to, to basically be a toolkit and a, and a resource for people to get involved with some awesome, amazing charities that already

• 1:32:48Speaker 01

  have a narrow focus and a niche that they're going after. So, we have an artist now that's, that's, uh, uh, decided to get heavily involved with the MS Society. We have an artist who's, who's, uh, uh, decided to, uh, because of some family history of Parkinson's stuff, to get involved with the Parkinson's, uh, Parkinson's Society. Uh, St. Jude's Children's Research Hospital, which is a, uh, if, if you're not familiar with it, or your listeners here aren't familiar with it, it's one of the most beautiful organizations that I've ever, uh, been able to be a part of. Uh, basically, it's a children's cancer research hospital that has been, uh, groundbreaking as far as the research that they've done,

• 1:33:31Speaker 01

  and they offer their services free to the, to the kids and the families. That are there getting treatment. So we've done, we've done, done some things with, with them and just, just connecting long-term. And I think, you know, I, my wife has definitely been the one to, to, to reveal this to me. It's, I get excited about something and I want everybody to be excited about it. And so I get excited about, about food or whatever else. And, and she's like, that's great. But she's not as excited about it. And I'm like, why aren't you excited about this? This is the greatest ever. And so what I realized was, you know, I can't, I can't manufacture or mandate other people to be

• 1:34:15Speaker 01

  passionate about things. But if someone gets there and gets their hands dirty and gets involved in it, then they may see and it may awaken something in them where they go, that's for me. That's where I need to be.

• 1:34:28Rich Roll?

  Right. But at the same time, you can't expect somebody to be passionate about something if you're not. And you know, for you to sort of stand in the light and have that passion. And, you know, you will sort of attract the people that, you know, need that. I mean, absolutely. So, and you're already doing that. I mean, the story is out there and you guys are doing amazing things. I mean, it's, it's phenomenal, you know, to see in a short period of time from where you were to, to what's happening now. It's pretty incredible.

• 1:34:56Speaker 01

  It's a, it's, it's, it's very, very fun. And we feel very fortunate and blessed. And, you know, as this journey goes on this year with Iron Man and the Kona Inspired Program and all the things we're doing with that, it's, it's, I can't, I can't even, it's hard to put into words how, how, how fortunate and lucky I feel. And then how, you know, I'm getting ready to do Kona here and whatever it is.

• 1:35:21Rich Roll?

  I know. I wanted to get into that. So, so you're getting ready to do Kona, the Iron Man World Championships, and you're a part of this Kona Inspired Program. So explain what that is to the listener.

• 1:35:31Speaker 01

  Well, the, the long and the short of it is,

• 1:35:35Speaker 01

  For years and years and years, you know, we've all seen the NBC broadcast for the world championships. And we see the story of the Hoics or, you know, all these inspirational stories that have have been highlighted through the NBC broadcast, people overcoming crazy things. And so...

• 1:35:54Rich Roll?

  That's really what, you know, in terms of the broadcast, that's really what it's become about. I mean, there's the race and there's who wins, but the reason that that broadcast wins an Emmy every year is because of those stories that they tell that everyone can kind of relate to and be inspired by.

• 1:36:10Speaker 01

  And, and, uh, and that, I mean, that's why I got into it. And that's why anybody that I've talked to that, that is not an athlete knows about it because of the broadcasts and the stories.

• 1:36:19Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:36:20Speaker 01

  So, in essence, a couple of years ago, Ironman decided, realizing the power of the stories, wanted to figure out a, a way to, to kind of have the stories resonate throughout the year. And so, uh, they used the Conan Inspired Program as a, as a vehicle to, to, to, to start to select some of the stories that they wanted to highlight throughout the process and, and give those people a chance to, to, to live that, the, that Ironman mantra of, you know, anything's possible, you can do it. And so, um, go ahead, sorry.

• 1:36:52Rich Roll?

  Oh, no. So I was just gonna say, so they created this program and they kind of cast a wide net right now. And, and there, there's a period of time where which you could submit your application video, right? And then they sift through all of these things and they're trying to find those, those amazing stories. Um, but long story short, you're one of these people and I would suspect are going to be one of those stories that is going to be highlighted in this NBC broadcast when it comes out many months after the race.

• 1:37:20Speaker 01

  Well, you know, uh, if I am, that would be, that would be great, but I have to say that, that getting to know some of the people that are, that are gonna be involved and that are going, um, uh, my road has, has definitely been easy. And, uh, you know, it's, it's, it's truly, truly amazing. And, and, you know, the stresses of that race and everything that you hear, uh, from it being hot to, to all the other... The other things are kind of in the back of my mind thinking, oh, that's, uh, uh, you know, I'm going to be prepared, I'm going to be well-trained, I'll have my nutrition under control, but, man, it's a celebration, and it's, uh, uh, to see the journey that, that

• 1:38:02Speaker 01

  the, the other athletes that are participating in the Kona Inspired program have gone through the things that they're doing, uh...

• 1:38:08Rich Roll?

  Who are some of the other people? Can you talk a little bit about that?

• 1:38:12Speaker 01

  Absolutely. Uh, uh, I'll speak of two in particular that have, uh, have become special to me just, just through relationships. The first, his name is Dean Bullock, and he, um, has, has, uh, uh, he's had multiple brain tumors, uh, brain cancer, and so he submitted his story, say, and he has overcome that, he's done several races, done a ton of stuff, and, and his whole point is, you know, we can pull this junk off regardless of what's going on, look at me, I've had brain cancer and I'm doing it. He submitted his video, uh, at the urging of his family, and, uh, was, uh, was selected,

• 1:38:56Speaker 01

  and then shortly thereafter, it finds out he's got, uh, uh, you know, some other, uh, some other brain issues he's got to jump in and deal with again. So, he's very much, uh, not only training for, for Kona, but he's, he's, uh, you know, still going through the everyday bits and, and pieces of, of dealing with, uh, you know, having, uh, brain cancer stuff.

• 1:39:20Rich Roll?

  Wow.

• 1:39:21Speaker 01

  And, and so I'm just watching that going, this is, this is, it, it's unbelievable. Um, and then someone else who's become super special to me, her name is Naomi Sirmack, and she, uh, in early 2000, uh, had a, had a little spot on her foot, and goes in, and she has melanoma on her foot.

• 1:39:39Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:39:40Speaker 01

  Uh, you know, it's not, it's on her foot, so it's not like she was sunbathing too much or anything like that, and, uh...

• 1:39:47Speaker 01

  They go in and do everything they do and and she said all along she was in her mind was just saying I hope that one cell didn't get away. I hope they got all of them.

• 1:39:56Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:39:57Speaker 01

  So she gets her PhD in sports nutrition, goes to the Netherlands and starts working for a big sports nutrition firm there, is writing doctoral papers and doing all this stuff, has a car wreck while she's over there. They notice a lump in her groin. Next thing you know, she, the melanoma is back and it's kind of taken over. And when they find it, she's at stage four. And so she, she's one of those that says, well, here we go. I can do it. And same thing, same with her. She had, she knew that the cancer was back when

• 1:40:34Speaker 01

  she submitted her a cone inspired video, but I wasn't quite sure how intense it was. So she's fighting away, doing all kinds of crazy treatment and, and has really become an amazing, amazing inspiration to me. And, you know, I don't know, it's transitioned to, it's, it's transitioned from Ironman is something that you do so that you can, you know, you say you're an Ironman and you finished it to, Ironman is really a, for so, so many people, it's a, it's a, it's a vehicle or a tool to do something so much

• 1:41:16Speaker 01

  bigger than yourself and so much bigger than, you know, finishing a race. And it's, the lessons I've, I'm attempting to learn from these people are, it's, it's truly amazing.

• 1:41:27Rich Roll?

  Yeah, and there's no question about it. It's completely transformative. It's not about the race or your time or anything like that. It's about the journey towards it and through it and, and how that changes a person, you know.

• 1:41:39Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 1:41:40Rich Roll?

  Their perspective and, and what they, what they have to offer to other people in terms of inspiration. It's really, really powerful.

• 1:41:48Speaker 01

  It's, it's, I, you know, I, I wish, I, I, I, I'm hopeful that all the triathletes that are listening out there, you know, investigate some of these stories and even at your local races. I've been fortunate to, to go to, to a ton of races this year, not racing, but just, just kind of working with the foundation and doing stuff. And I just got back from Ironman Louisville. And I got to meet with a couple of, a couple of different athletes. One of them is in the Navy and he submitted a, a Kona inspired video, didn't get selected, but he's still going about it. He's like, I'm gonna do this, uh, I'm gonna get my message out and do my

• 1:42:28Speaker 01

  thing. And so he's on a, uh, he's a submariner. So he's training for Ironman, uh, Ironman events on a submarine.

• 1:42:36Rich Roll?

  That's amazing. I think there wasn't a story about a guy like that a couple of years ago. Maybe it wasn't a submarine though, but it was a Navy ship. Maybe it was, I, I can't remember exactly, but yeah. I mean, the idea of training for an Ironman on a boat, whether you're above the water or below it is unbelievable. But to be on a submarine where it's, there's no personal space. And I mean, I, I can't even imagine.

• 1:42:58Speaker 01

  No, me, me either. So I got to, you know, just kind of ask him all these ridiculous questions that, uh, and he was, he was hopeful for them to surface every once in a while so that he could actually swim.

• 1:43:11Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:43:12Speaker 01

  So, uh, and then, uh, you know, just talking to some of the para athletes, those, the, that group of people is, uh, are some of the most beautiful, unbelievable people that, that, uh, I mean, it's so, so, so I've got chills right now. I talked to a guy who is, uh, was, is close to 30 and when he was 21 years old, um, got hit by a drunk driver, uh, gets paralyzed from the waist down. And, you know, he's a normal 21 year old kid. One day and the next day he can't, uh, you know, he can't walk. And, uh, and here he is, his first ever Ironman. And, uh, uh, it's just unbelievable, you know?

• 1:43:56Rich Roll?

  It is, man. It's cra- it's, it's, it's like you were saying. I mean, it's completely, uh, transformative when you see these people who are taking on this challenge, which for anybody of firm body and mind is Herculean. And to do it, you know, so physically compromised is, is an extraordinary feat.

• 1:44:19Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:44:19Rich Roll?

  It's really amazing. So, well, that's great, man. So how's the training going? You feeling ready?

• 1:44:25Speaker 01

  I think so. I feel pretty good. I've, uh, I've- You know, I'm fortunate that if the coach that I work for was to write something down, I'd just go do it and I don't think about it or ask questions. But I've got the normal aches and pains that I think anybody would. It's been hot in Nashville lately, so I've been able to get out and do my runs when it's, you know, super hot. You know, who knows? You know, I guess it's one of those things where, yeah, I'm, I think I'm ready. I feel good. You know, there's so much about this race that I've read that are just unknowns, you know, as far as how your body's going to respond in those conditions and things like that, so.

• 1:45:09Rich Roll?

  Are you going to go out to Hawaii a little bit early to get used to the heat a little bit? Or what's the plan?

• 1:45:15Speaker 01

  Yes, I'm going out a week early. So I'll go out on the 5th. I guess the race is on the 12th. So I'll go out on the 5th. And then we're fortunate that we're doing a lot of work with the foundation while we're there. So a bike wheel company called Flow Wheels, they make, you know, aero wheels. I found out about them because I was doing research about some of the triathlon companies that kind of give back. And so I found that they had a program they called Bike for Kids. And with every set of upgraded wheels that you bought from them, so basically wheels that have different special bearings and all kinds of stuff. They started a program where they do, they buy a bike for an underprivileged kid.

• 1:45:58Rich Roll?

  Oh, that's cool.

• 1:45:59Speaker 01

  And so I, they had a little YouTube video on their page where it's like, hey, we're making bike wheels. We're passionate about that, but here's what we're really into. And so I just called them up and said, I want to, I want to be involved. And so they've, they've this year done a path to Kona. And they're going to a ton of races and raising money outside of just the buying wheels thing to get wheels to kids. So they're going to Kona. We're going to do some stuff with, with Bikes for Kids out there. And so that'll be, Music in the Moves is partnering with them to do some stuff. The Ironman Foundation itself is, we're setting up some service projects to really get involved while we're

• 1:46:42Speaker 01

  there. So I think we're, you know, it's like, like I said, you know, the race is-

• 1:46:45Rich Roll?

  You're a service machine.

• 1:46:47Speaker 01

  You know?

• 1:46:48Rich Roll?

  Look at that.

• 1:46:49Speaker 01

  I don't.

• 1:46:49Rich Roll?

  Amazing.

• 1:46:50Speaker 01

  It's just, you know, it's been, it's been, uh, it's been my favorite part of all of this. And I know that sounds really, really kooky, but, uh, my favorite part of, uh, getting involved with doing all this Ironman stuff has been the people and to getting to go do, do some of these fun special things and, and, you know, it's, it's really weird and I had to come to grips with this, but it's, you know, we got involved to raise money for Kevin and his cancer stuff. And now that we're doing stuff with Music That Moves and, and the Bikes for Kids program and all the things that are going on, it's like, I feel, I feel selfish and weird because, uh, it's hugely gratifying, uh, and to, to, to, to go and, and do that stuff. And it's like, man, I thought we were doing this for other folks, but it's like, I'm,

• 1:47:35Speaker 01

  uh, uh, I'm, I'm into it. So.

• 1:47:38Rich Roll?

  It's great, man. Well, I can't, uh, we're going to wrap it up here in a minute, but I cannot let you get off the Skype call without letting us know what you eat before a workout, what you eat during a workout, like your bike, your long bike workouts and what you eat after, because I get this question all the time. And so now I'm putting it on you.

• 1:48:00Speaker 01

  Well, it's, uh, it's been really interesting and I've, I've, you know, I'm a, a researching science, uh, you know, looking up online and stuff. So I really had a really hard time because of, of, uh, uh, you know, thinking I don't do a ton of sugar in the normal day. So the thought of doing some of the sugar-based, multidection, uh, type products didn't really emotionally sit well with me. Uh, so I, I started, uh, you know, trying to figure out how to do, uh, as much holistic stuff as I could. And it, um, uh, you know, it might be anything from carrying Justin's peanut butter squeeze packs in my, uh, uh, in my bike jersey to.

• 1:48:44Rich Roll?

  I love those.

• 1:48:45Speaker 01

  Uh, man, me too. We've got.

• 1:48:47Rich Roll?

  They're addictive.

• 1:48:49Speaker 01

  No doubt. And, you know, it's just a lot of, on a normal day, it's, uh, you know, I found most times if I'm just doing a casual ride, then I don't necessarily need too much stuff. I don't, I don't, uh, you know, if it's just a couple of hours or something, it's, it's usually water or coconut water or something like that and I'm fine.

• 1:49:06Rich Roll?

  Yeah. But that comes with the experience and, and getting more efficient with your training because you've been doing it for a long time, you know, and you realize like, oh, I'm not going to like, you know. Pass out on my bike because I, you know, I'm in, I'm fit now. I can go a couple hours without having to like overeat and like be freaked out about not having 20 gels on me or something.

• 1:49:25Speaker 01

  Right. And so the normal day is, is I will, if I have a, you know, a reasonably short workout, I might, a lot of times I don't do anything before an early morning workout. I'll just go do it and then come back and have whatever we have in the fridge at the time, I'll throw in the Vitamix, you know, and it's, this could be a hodgepodge of, you know, who knows? It's vegetables and fruits and, you know, you, you, if it's there, I'll just throw it in and make my smoothie goulash.

• 1:49:58Rich Roll?

  Yeah, that's, that's what it's like for me more often than not. I mean, it's not having any one set recipe. It's, I mean, ideally I have things that I like, but you know, sometimes we're out of that stuff, you know, there's, I got four kids, stuff disappears from our fridge like faster than you can imagine. I think I have something and then I don't.

• 1:50:16Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:50:16Rich Roll?

  So you go with what you have and it changes every day. And I think it's about being flexible with that and not being too rigid about it has to be like this and two tablespoons of this and what have you.

• 1:50:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's, it is, there's no, no level of measuring on my part with the, with the Vitamix. It's, you just hope that it's not overflowing.

• 1:50:38Speaker 01

  And then, you know, then I just go about my, like, like the same stuff we talked about. I'm probably still pretty close to 50% raw, do a ton of greens and a ton of, you know, I'll have a giant salad at least once a day and then at night it's, it's, we're doing everything from a stir fry or some kind of bean something or other, or we found, you know, some international recipe we found with, you know, chickpeas and curry or, you know, it's just, you're, you're just kind of going with it. It's just normal life.

• 1:51:07Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:51:08Speaker 01

  So for the most part, it's, it's, it's, I, I, I feel that, that, you know, nutrition is the fourth discipline of triathlon, definitely. But I think a lot can, can be helped if, if you, if you, if, if your fourth discipline happens all the time and instead of just on the bike. So if you're, if you're practicing in good nutrition. Throughout every day consistently, then your, your blood sugar is going to be a lot more stable. You're not going to have the, the effects of the, all that stuff. And by no means have I got it figured out. And there's countless times where I hit the wall and, and, you know, go back to dial it in a little bit.

• 1:51:50Rich Roll?

  But, but you're feeling good. Like you feel like this plant-based way of eating and living is serving you fine in your Ironman preparation.

• 1:52:00Speaker 01

  One hundred percent.

• 1:52:01Rich Roll?

  That's the thing that like freaks people out. Like they think you must be genetically different or something like that in order to train for an Ironman only on plants.

• 1:52:09Speaker 01

  It is, you know, it's been, uh, uh, there's, there's definitely a huge difference between last year when I did Arizona and now, uh, just because I think my body's gotten more fit. Um, and you learn little things that don't work. You know, I learned that, uh, if I go somewhere the night before and they're serving pasta that has gluten in it and, uh, it's my only option, uh, and I do it, then it's not going to feel good on the bike. You know, it, it mess, it just, it, uh, I have, I perform way worse when I have some kind of gluten thing. Uh, but it's, it's crazy now to, to, to, to have, have built up to it to go for a hundred mile bike ride when it's, you know, 90 plus degrees outside and, uh, get home and go, okay, what are we doing today?

• 1:52:54Rich Roll?

  Right. Right. Instead of, I gotta go take a nap or veg out on the couch for the rest of the day.

• 1:53:02Speaker 01

  And so it's, it's the other piece of it, uh, that feeds my, my evolutionary, uh, bit is man, do you get to eat a ton of, of, and so the endless desire to nosh, uh, man, this is a wonderful way to do it. So I feel like I get to eat non-stop.

• 1:53:26Rich Roll?

  I love it. All right, man. Well, we gotta wrap it up, but you are a true inspiration and I love, I love all the service that you're doing. I love that you've made that really the focus and the priority of this mission. It's really a beautiful thing, man, and I hope that you continue and

• 1:53:48Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 1:53:49Rich Roll?

  Maintain this level of passion for it. It's infectious and you're changing lives and it's great that you're using this sort of, you know, you're in a situation where you wield some influence because of what you do for a living and all the people that you're exposed to and to see you channel it in this healthy direction is really a phenomenal thing. So, thank you for that.

• 1:54:09Speaker 01

  And thank you. I have to, I definitely have to confess that, that around the time your book came out was when I was kind of in the heat of getting ready to figure out Arizona and do all that stuff and, and to be able to follow your story and, and see the things that you accomplished with the diet that you, that you've been doing for so long. It, it was fuel for me. It helped me and it, you know, it rose, it rose to one of those things that said, okay, we can, we can do this like this. So, thank you.

• 1:54:41Rich Roll?

  Cool. Thank you, man. Thanks. That's nice of you to say. So, all right. Well, the road to Kona. You're almost there.

• 1:54:48Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:54:49Rich Roll?

  Can't wait to see you, see you race it. We'll be cheering from afar. I won't be there, but I'll be following it online. So, fantastic. And then are you gonna be, are you gonna be in LA anytime afterwards at any point? I'd love to, love to meet up with you, man. Go out to watch it.

• 1:55:07Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:55:07Rich Roll?

  Go for a bike ride or something.

• 1:55:08Speaker 01

  I would, I would love that. We're out there multiple times a year. So, next time I get out there, I will just let you know that I'm coming and we can plan something.

• 1:55:16Rich Roll?

  Sounds good, man. Let's hook it up. All right. So, if you want to follow Thad or know more about what he's up to, you're on Twitter at, it's @MusicThatMoves, right?

• 1:55:27Speaker 01

  It's MusicThatMoves1 on Twitter.

• 1:55:29Rich Roll?

  MusicThatMoves1, okay. And, and is there a website for MusicThatMoves?

• 1:55:35Speaker 01

  Yep. MusicTheMove.org. And then, you know, we're, we're, we're getting everything up and running, trying to keep everything current and Get it rolling.

• 1:55:47Rich Roll?

  Cool, and you can also find out more about him at KonaInspired.com. And of course, SugarlandMusic.com, right? If you want to check out the music stuff. When are you guys going on tour again?

• 1:55:59Speaker 01

  You know, who, who knows?

• 1:56:01Rich Roll?

  That's right.

• 1:56:03Speaker 01

  At this point, I'm thinking I'm on the 30-day countdown to get there. Well, the, one more, one more piece of it is Jennifer, our singer, about three weeks ago, gave me a call and said, "Hey, I've got some friends that have this nonprofit that are, they're doing some stuff. They wanted me to get involved. They're running the New York Marathon. I told them I couldn't do it, but I would volunteer you."

• 1:56:29Rich Roll?

  Uh-oh.

• 1:56:30Speaker 01

  So...

• 1:56:31Rich Roll?

  Go straight into marathon training after Kona.

• 1:56:33Speaker 01

  So, for all of you out there, I don't, I don't have, it's, it's three weeks after Kona, so...

• 1:56:40Rich Roll?

  You could do it. You could just, just, just continue your taper. It'll be fine.

• 1:56:45Speaker 01

  That's kind of what I'm thinking. I'm just thinking it's a, a casual stroll, stroll through the boroughs of New York.

• 1:56:52Rich Roll?

  Yes.

• 1:56:53Speaker 01

  So by then, hopefully, I'm not at the Saberut hot dog stand on the corner of somewhere in Manhattan, having a total meltdown, eating hot dogs.

• 1:57:04Rich Roll?

  Right, Grey's Papaya.

• 1:57:05Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 1:57:06Rich Roll?

  I don't see it happening. I think you're gonna be fine.

• 1:57:09Speaker 01

  I think so.

• 1:57:11Rich Roll?

  All right, cool. Well, thanks so much for taking the time, man. It would've been good to do it in person, but I'm glad we did it, and maybe you can come back on the show when we're in the same place at the same time, and we can do it live.

• 1:57:22Speaker 01

  I would love it, and we can bring some instruments, because you've got...

• 1:57:24Rich Roll?

  That'd be awesome.

• 1:57:25Speaker 01

  You've got quite the music situation going there, too.

• 1:57:28Rich Roll?

  Yeah, we do, for sure. It'd be great to come over and jam. I would love that.

• 1:57:32Speaker 01

  That would be great. Well, thank you so much for your time.

• 1:57:34Rich Roll?

  Yeah, thank you, and good luck in Kona, man.

• 1:57:37Speaker 01

  Hey, thank you.

• 1:57:38Rich Roll?

  All right, take it easy.

• 1:57:40Speaker 01

  Alright, bye.

• 1:57:41Rich Roll?

  Alright, peace. Plants.

• 1:59:50Speaker 01

  The.