Behind the Scenes Minis: Atlanta and Textiles

Holly talks about the frustration of not finding any solid evidence of where Richard Peters stood on the issue of slavery. Tracy wonders what Elizabeth Fulhame's relationship with her husband was like. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 2:08Holly Frey?

  We've all tumbled down an internet rabbit hole trying to self diagnose and it leaves us more anxious than informed. Our feeds are full of wellness trends, but how do we know what's real, what's exaggerated and what's just wrong? Health vs. Hype from the American Medical Association breaks it all down. Emmy nominated science communicator Trace Dominguez talks to doctors, influencers, and real people trying these trends, not to cancel them, but to understand them. Because when it comes to your health, who you listen to matters. So listen to Health vs. Hype wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everybody. Holly here. A little heads up before we get into this week's behind the scenes. This episode is one in which Tracy and I talk about TSA screening at the

• 2:52Holly Frey?

  Atlanta airport. And this was recorded before the current DHS shutdown, which has of course led to drastically prolonged security wait times at airports around the country. So just keep that in mind as you listen to us talk about how easy breezy it can sometimes be to go through security. Right now, obviously, it is much harder for everyone. I hope you're all taking care of yourselves.

• 3:17Holly Frey?

  Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production of iHeartRadio.

• 3:28Holly Frey?

  Hello and happy Friday. I'm Holly Frey.

• 3:30Tracy V. Wilson?

  And I'm Tracy V. Wilson.

• 3:32Holly Frey?

  We talked about Richard Peters this week.

• 3:34Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yes.

• 3:36Holly Frey?

  And I said that I would talk about the thing I understand, I think, about Richard Peters.

• 3:41Tracy V. Wilson?

  Oh, right. You were gonna psychoanalyze him. A thing we don't normally do a lot of.

• 3:46Holly Frey?

  No, but I have a kinship here. Because all of the things that, any write up about him, and especially if you've ever seen the Oakland presentations about him, where a character comes out as him and talks about him. They're all very focused on how driven he was as a businessman and how like, he was always chasing money, which can make him sound like shallow and greedy.

• 4:14Holly Frey?

  But I know exactly what's going on in his head.

• 4:17Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 4:17Holly Frey?

  He is rebelling against his dad.

• 4:19Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 4:20Holly Frey?

  His entire life, his entire approach to everything is about saying, never me. When he thinks about the way his father operated and how many times he messed up financially. I guarantee that was what he was driving.

• 4:35Tracy V. Wilson?

  Right.

• 4:36Holly Frey?

  That's like 100%. I understand this rebellious life very deeply. Cause I'm the same way. I'm always like, 90% of my personality is about rejecting, you know, things I grew up with.

• 4:49Tracy V. Wilson?

  Sure.

• 4:50Holly Frey?

  I 100% understand exactly. I had this thing that was making me very frustrated. Because it was so hard to pin down his thoughts regarding the institution of slavery. Because he never says anything about it openly. There are times when he, you know, engages slave labor.

• 5:20Tracy V. Wilson?

  Right.

• 5:20Holly Frey?

  Although he is not the only person, like that's like a company standard that was going on.

• 5:25Tracy V. Wilson?

  Sure.

• 5:26Holly Frey?

  During some of these things. And certainly his grandfather, we mentioned, uh, you know, had indentured servants. So there had to have been part of him that was just accustomed to similar concepts. But I was literally like, this cannot be that there is literally nothing solid about his position on this issue. Other than, yo, my fellow southerners, don't, don't do this. Don't go into this war. If you love slavery, you're going to lose it anyway. So don't do this. There's nothing about him that, that ever comments on the morality of it, other than saying the rest of the world already thinks this is absolutely wrong. And I thought I was going nuts. I was like, what am I missing?

• 6:05Holly Frey?

  And then I was looking at another biography about him that was like similarly frustrated. And I was like, okay, if you spent the time researching and writing this and you couldn't find anything. I think I have, I have turned over all the rocks and there's not some secret.

• 6:23Tracy V. Wilson?

  Right.

• 6:24Holly Frey?

  Missive somewhere that I would have access to. So that is frustrating about him. He certainly benefited from it in some ways. Like I said, was very open that he knew that it was wrong. And that the world thought it was wrong, but not like his personal.

• 6:41Holly Frey?

  And I think sometimes he gets very kind of whitewashed in tellings about Atlanta history because they're like, he didn't want, and it's like, well, I mean, the scales do seem to lean that way in some ways, but also like, you cannot forget this other stuff that went on.

• 6:56Tracy V. Wilson?

  Right, right.

• 6:59Holly Frey?

  So he's a little tricky in that regard. His thing that we referred to a couple of times is his memoir, which is really a biography of him written by a relative when he was in his 70s that starts out with a very long, I mean, it's basically like an interview with him. It's just him telling story, like talking through his life story, which ends very abruptly at leaving Atlanta during the Civil War. Like, I didn't even find anything that was specific about how he got out.

• 7:30Tracy V. Wilson?

  Oh, yeah.

• 7:30Holly Frey?

  Just like, I was running all over the city, trying to check on all the railroads. You know, people kept telling me to leave or that there were Yankees coming and that it was not going to be safe. You know, we knew that fires had started. Boy, I barely made it out of there. And then it's like, the relative that's writing it kind of picks up there and is like, and then he was really tired. And then they tell the rest of his story through letters and it's kind of funny.

• 7:57Tracy V. Wilson?

  Okay.

• 7:57Holly Frey?

  His correspondence back and forth with people. It is kind of funny in that regard, but I like having his point of view, uh, cause he was very funny in telling his stories. And like I said, it's very obvious.

• 8:10Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 8:10Holly Frey?

  That he had disdain for his father. He would never say anything like, my father was really stupid or blah, blah, blah. But he would be like, well, we lost everything and then we got it again, and then we lost it again, and then we got it again. And then at one point, my dad mailed me $10 and I mailed it back to him because he told me he was super flush. And then the next time I saw him, he was talking about how he had nothing. So that kept happening. Like, it's just.

• 8:37Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 8:39Holly Frey?

  Just very interesting. He, like I said, had many witty anecdotes, but one of them that I liked was him talking about the first time he went to Atlanta, which was in 1844.

• 8:54Holly Frey?

  And the thing that I love is actually what he says about somebody else that was on the trip with him. He says, quote, "It was after dark when we arrived and Judge King unfortunately fell in a well which was being dug.

• 9:04Tracy V. Wilson?

  What?

• 9:05Holly Frey?

  It was only 10 feet deep and we soon pulled him out, but he was highly disgusted and for years would not buy Atlanta real estate."

• 9:14Tracy V. Wilson?

  That's amazing.

• 9:16Holly Frey?

  I love that this person was just mad at all of Atlanta because he fell in a well.

• 9:20Tracy V. Wilson?

  It's reminding me of how decades ago, I had a boyfriend who broke up with me and my, my impression of what had happened was that he had left me for somebody he was hanging out with in Charlotte. And then I just had a vendetta against the whole city of Charlotte for years afterward. I was like, no, I'm not going there. Not going to visit there. I hate it. Not anybody from there. Uh-uh.

• 9:47Holly Frey?

  Yeah, that's fair.

• 9:49Holly Frey?

  Similar, except he fell in a well.

• 9:53Holly Frey?

  I just love that. Love it. He also apparently had all of these maxims he would tell his children and his grandchildren.

• 10:03Tracy V. Wilson?

  Okay.

• 10:03Holly Frey?

  And some of them are very like obvious things, you know, about just like, you know, being smart and, you know, treating people fairly, blah, blah, blah.

• 10:12Tracy V. Wilson?

  Okay.

• 10:12Holly Frey?

  But I loved this one that was included in that account, which was, "If the weather be wet, don't fret. If the weather be cold, don't scold. But with the weather that's sent, learn to be content."

• 10:25Tracy V. Wilson?

  Okay.

• 10:26Holly Frey?

  And I'm like, that's actually, that's actually pretty good advice. Just like.

• 10:29Tracy V. Wilson?

  It's like you get what you get and don't be upset.

• 10:32Holly Frey?

  It is. It's great, which I feel like. He was very good at, and I think that's part of why he was so good at business, because he could see like, okay, this is a mess. How can we deal with this in a way that will ultimately not be a mess for me and make me a ton of money? Like that flour mill, where he's like, well, flour mill is not gonna go. I can't keep, I cannot keep trying to make this happen because it's not.

• 10:58Tracy V. Wilson?

  It's not working.

• 10:58Holly Frey?

  And his, his explanation for that other mill that was selling flour below cost was that the person that owned it had an iron works that needed fast cash.

• 11:08Tracy V. Wilson?

  Oh, so he was willing. Yeah, it's like the loss leader for the iron works.

• 11:12Holly Frey?

  He was willing to lose out over here so that he could actually keep this other thing going, which is interesting. But yeah, where he's like, what can I do here? I know, I'll just sell these things and make a huge profit. And he did. Astonishing. There are many other things about the city that are attributed to him and his family, like Ivy Hall, which is now owned by the Savannah College of Art and Design, was built by his son Edward in 1883, when Richard was still alive. You know, there are just like a kajillion little things like that. I still just like looking at a map of downtown Atlanta, I'm like, and midtown, I'm like, he owned all of this. It reminds me a little bit of when we talked about Levi Strauss.

• 11:55Tracy V. Wilson?

  Oh, yeah.

• 11:56Holly Frey?

  Bought so much real estate in San Francisco.

• 11:59Tracy V. Wilson?

  Right.

• 11:59Holly Frey?

  And the prices went way up and they can do that. I also want to talk about Oakland Cemetery, because I love it.

• 12:06Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 12:07Holly Frey?

  Oakland is unique because it's one of the few places in Atlanta that was not destroyed in the Civil War.

• 12:16Tracy V. Wilson?

  Right.

• 12:16Holly Frey?

  And it was founded before that, of course, so it, it offers, you know, a lot of history that would have, would have been lost. One of the things that I read while I was prepping this, and I think I knew this from before.

• 12:30Holly Frey?

  Was that the last lots that were sold at Oakland were sold in 1888. But they were sold and purchased by families in large numbers. So they are still doing

• 12:46Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 12:47Holly Frey?

  active burials of family members descended from those people who purchased those lots.

• 12:53Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 12:54Holly Frey?

  A hundred and fifty years almost later.

• 12:56Tracy V. Wilson?

  Right.

• 12:57Holly Frey?

  Wild.

• 12:58Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah. Many years ago, we were talking about Oakland Cemetery and an event of some sort that had happened. Had been that we had gone to, one or both of us had gone to it.

• 13:11Holly Frey?

  Oh, I know exactly what you're about to talk about because I was gonna talk about it too.

• 13:14Tracy V. Wilson?

  And someone in the comments was so upset.

• 13:18Holly Frey?

  Yes.

• 13:19Tracy V. Wilson?

  At the idea of a cemetery being used as a public green space. When that was what cemeteries like this were created to do, to be both a place for the burial of the dead, but also a public green space.

• 13:39Holly Frey?

  Yes, I could tell you exactly the specifics of what they were mad about.

• 13:43Tracy V. Wilson?

  Okay, because I don't remember that detail.

• 13:45Holly Frey?

  It was a 5K. It was a 5K called Run Like Hell. So when Atlanta had tornadoes, I don't remember what year that was. There was a lot of damage at Oakland and Oakland is a cemetery that does not have its own like internal upkeep maintenance fund. So that group that we mentioned at the end of the episode, the Historic Oakland Foundation basically does a variety of things so that they can raise money to do this. And after that tornado, someone on in the foundation came up with this idea of what if we had a 5K that goes through the cemetery and in the surrounding neighborhoods?

• 14:27Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 14:28Holly Frey?

  And I was like, I'm all in. This is exactly my flavor of 5K. And I ran it for several years and we had posted a picture of me from that race on our Facebook page. And that's what somebody got really irate about. And I think they had it in their heads that we were just like. Racing over graves when in fact, there's like a whole paved path area through that that's quite wide and easily traversable. But also like if they don't do things like that, that cemetery falls apart.

• 14:55Tracy V. Wilson?

  Right, right.

• 14:56Holly Frey?

  Like I, and they do lots of great stuff there. They do like a big picnic there.

• 15:00Tracy V. Wilson?

  Uh huh.

• 15:01Holly Frey?

  Every year where people show up in amazing historical costumes.

• 15:04Tracy V. Wilson?

  I went to that a number of times.

• 15:06Holly Frey?

  They do, I forget the name of it. They do like a, a bruise in the tombs thing, which you're not actually in the tombs, but like,

• 15:13Tracy V. Wilson?

  Uh huh.

• 15:14Holly Frey?

  They'll do like a beer night there where they have local vendors come out and do craft beers and stuff. They do so many great things and a lot of it is great for the community.

• 15:22Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 15:23Holly Frey?

  It keeps the history of the space alive because they do have people that come out and talk about the people who are buried there and the important history of it.

• 15:31Tracy V. Wilson?

  Uh huh.

• 15:31Holly Frey?

  And also, you know, just all of these pieces of Atlanta history and the community history.

• 15:36Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 15:36Holly Frey?

  That I always think about that person that got really mad and I'm like, I'm sorry you got mad, but I think you've misunderstood.

• 15:41Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah. Well, and I think they, they were upset because they were like, if my family member was being buried and there was a road race going by, I would be really upset. And yeah, I, I see that point of view. I ideally a, a family would not plan their loved one's burial dur- during the 5K. Like there would be some communication.

• 16:02Holly Frey?

  There, exactly. There is, uh, you know, cross comparison of calendars.

• 16:11Holly Frey?

  And I know you can't always plan, you know, you can't plan when a loved one is going to die.

• 16:17Tracy V. Wilson?

  Right.

• 16:17Holly Frey?

  And when you will need funeral services, but you could still, you know, work with the schedule to make it all happen.

• 16:23Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 16:23Holly Frey?

  Well, and it, it happens all the time.

• 16:25Tracy V. Wilson?

  People whose family members are being buried at Oakland know that that, that it is both a, a burial space and a green space where things like this happen, like.

• 16:37Holly Frey?

  Yeah, just a community space.

• 16:39Tracy V. Wilson?

  Part of it. Yeah, yeah.

• 16:40Holly Frey?

  And it's beautiful. I feel like so many people I know love Oakland. It's one of their favorite places in Atlanta.

• 16:45Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah, I remember when that tornado happened. I don't remember if I was still living there. That's, my memory on the timeline is vague, but I remember when that happened and how there were a lot of like monuments that had been toppled and had to be repaired.

• 16:59Holly Frey?

  You absolutely were.

• 17:00Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 17:01Holly Frey?

  Absolutely were still living here. Yes, because that was before, I think you and I were doing this podcast.

• 17:09Tracy V. Wilson?

  Oh, was so long ago.

• 17:12Holly Frey?

  I'm pretty sure. I could be wrong, but I think, I think, yeah, that was rough.

• 17:22Tracy V. Wilson?

  Um, if I'm remembering correctly, at one of the events that I went to at Oakland, there was somebody who did a one-person show of Gone with the Wind.

• 17:33Holly Frey?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 17:35Tracy V. Wilson?

  It was so funny.

• 17:36Holly Frey?

  Yeah, just great, just great. I, um, yeah, I love it. I love it. Listen, we don't talk about Atlanta history very much.

• 17:45Tracy V. Wilson?

  No, we have a lot more Massachusetts crap from me.

• 17:49Holly Frey?

  And it does tickle me to no end that all of the things that people talk about as quintessential Atlanta, many of them were instituted by a dude from Philadelphia.

• 17:57Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah, I did not know that at all.

• 17:59Holly Frey?

  That does tickle me a little. Like,

• 18:00Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 18:01Holly Frey?

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• 18:36Tracy V. Wilson?

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• 19:17Tracy V. Wilson?

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• 21:11Holly Frey?

  We've all done it, tumble down an internet rabbit hole trying to self diagnose. And sometimes doing our own research can leave us more anxious than informed. Your feed is packed with wellness trends telling you to cold plunge, protein max, detox, track your sleep. But what's actually real? What's exaggerated? What's just wrong? That's exactly what Health vs. Hype from the American Medical Association and iHeartMedia's Ruby Studio is here to find out. Each episode, Emmy nominated science communicator Trace Dominguez, who's racked up billions of views across PBS, Discovery Channel, and YouTube, talks to doctors, influencers, and real people trying these trends.

• 21:53Holly Frey?

  Not to cancel them, not to hype them more, but to actually understand them. Because when it comes to your health, who you listen to matters. Start asking better questions and listen to Health vs. Hype on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 22:19Tracy V. Wilson?

  I did also want to mention.

• 22:26Tracy V. Wilson?

  I like how tickled you are by whatever it is.

• 22:28Holly Frey?

  Well, because I don't even know how to talk about it without. It's so absurd that it's funny to me. And I have to air quotes this, the grid of it.

• 22:42Holly Frey?

  Is a mess, right?

• 22:43Tracy V. Wilson?

  It is a mess.

• 22:43Holly Frey?

  There are parts of downtown and midtown that have some grid to them. But there's also some cockamamie stuff going on.

• 22:50Tracy V. Wilson?

  Just goes through randomly.

• 22:51Holly Frey?

  Part of that is my understanding, I haven't fact checked this, is that some of it was like, this was a cow path and then we paved it and now it is a road. Which is not all that unusual in various places, but in a city that grew as as big as Atlanta did, it's kind of unusual that they would be retained as roads and not restructured to make the infrastructure more square. But that just like every time I was reading something that said, he named the north to south roads this, and I'm like, well, they're kind of north to south. They're a little meandery at times.

• 23:25Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 23:26Holly Frey?

  And I, I didn't even delve into, because does this get you when people talk about Peachtree?

• 23:34Holly Frey?

  And they go, which one? There are so many, and there are so many, but if you live in Atlanta and someone says it's on Peachtree, you know which one they mean.

• 23:42Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 23:44Holly Frey?

  So for anybody that's outside the city, I understand that when you encounter in your directions, in your GPS, Peachtree Place, Peachtree Circle, Peachtree Terrace, et cetera. It's all frustrating and confusing. But if you say Peachtree Road, there's the one road that they mean.

• 24:03Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 24:06Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah. I also just want to have a little bit of love for Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport.

• 24:14Holly Frey?

  I love that airport.

• 24:15Tracy V. Wilson?

  Cause I feel like the Atlanta Airport gets a lot of grief from travelers and I understand it. It is a Delta hub. It is very big. So if you have to go from one terminal to another, it might be a long way if you have a connection.

• 24:31Holly Frey?

  Yes.

• 24:32Tracy V. Wilson?

  It is very busy. The security lines can be very long. I've just said a lot of downsides to the Atlanta Airport. But I love how, how big it is. I love how spacious a lot of it is. I love the plane train that takes you to all the different terminals, or you can walk through the tunnel and look at all the beautiful art that's down there if you have time and all the historical displays if you have time. If you want something to eat and it's not in the terminal that you're in. And you have a lot of time, you can go to the other terminal and get back. It is not a problem. I used to go to the international terminal routinely and have my dinner there because it was bright and pretty and brand new.

• 25:18Tracy V. Wilson?

  And then I would go to wherever my actual airplane was taking off.

• 25:23Holly Frey?

  Yeah, it also has like full-size stores.

• 25:26Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 25:27Holly Frey?

  Like that are not the little kioski style or even like, I call them pocket stores, like this little, you know, mini ones that are like a tiny bodega of makeup, but like full size.

• 25:38Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah. I used to use a lot of products from the body shop and there was a full-size body shop store in the international terminal and I would go when I was traveling somewhere, I would go, I'd go through security, I would go on my little shopping trip, the body shop, buy all my stuff. I've told a friend of mine this story and she was like, can we discuss how you're traveling for work so much that you were buying your personal care products at the airport?

• 26:03Holly Frey?

  Yeah, but that way you don't have to pack stuff.

• 26:05Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah, it's already through security.

• 26:07Holly Frey?

  You could just have it the best, the best, the best. Yeah, I mean, I, listen, I'm at the airport all the time.

• 26:17Holly Frey?

  So I'm very familiar with and comfortable with it. I am like that almost obnoxious person that will help confuse travelers.

• 26:24Tracy V. Wilson?

  Sure.

• 26:24Holly Frey?

  Where I'm like, where do you actually need to go? Cause I can see on your face that you are befuddled and overwhelmed. Listen, have I snuck some people through the Sky Priority Security Lane when they look desperate? Yes, I have. Yes, I have. Cause you know, like it, it can be, it can be a little dicey.

• 26:42Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah, when Patrick and I were dating, one time I dropped him off at the Atlanta Airport and the security line had wound all the way through the windy path.

• 26:51Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 26:52Tracy V. Wilson?

  And all the way out through the atrium and all the way out farther out. It was the longest I'd ever seen it and I was like.

• 26:59Tracy V. Wilson?

  I don't love this, but I still love that airport.

• 27:01Holly Frey?

  It has, in my opinion, gotten better because they have multiple security checkpoints now.

• 27:08Tracy V. Wilson?

  Correct.

• 27:09Holly Frey?

  So it's not all wadding up in one place. And I just feel like they're doing a better job of flow management for the most part. If you're there at a peak time when it's busy, you're still going to wait for a bit. But also, again, I fly a lot, so I'm at a lot of airports. And I know that there are security people that can be brusque at every airport. But I also feel like in Atlanta, I have a lot of great experiences with security in Atlanta, where they've been extraordinarily nice to me, you know, super cool.

• 27:42Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 27:43Holly Frey?

  Have done whatever they could to make something easier. I've seen them helping other travelers that are super confused.

• 27:49Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 27:51Holly Frey?

  Also, when those people were not getting paid and were still doing their job.

• 27:55Tracy V. Wilson?

  Mm hmm.

• 27:57Holly Frey?

  They were so nice. I would have been.

• 27:59Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 28:00Holly Frey?

  Biting every person that walked through and they were lovely.

• 28:04Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 28:04Holly Frey?

  And if you thank them, one guy I thought was going to cry because he just was like, clearly so overwhelmed and stressed.

• 28:11Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 28:12Holly Frey?

  Anyway.

• 28:13Tracy V. Wilson?

  When I moved to Massachusetts, I did so via the Atlanta airport. And I had to go through airport security with two laptops and a cat and my roller board. And because of how everything was packed, I had to take both laptops out of the roller board. And then when you are traveling with an animal, you have to take the animal out and you have to walk through the thing. So I'm walking with this cat and two things happened. One is a random other passenger corralled all of my stuff for me while I was being swabbed for explosive residue on my cat. And then also there was another TSA agent beyond the one who was like, I'm holding my

• 28:55Tracy V. Wilson?

  cat and like getting my hands swabbed for explosive residue. And this other TSA agent was like, please let that woman go. That cat is terrified. Uh, and I think had I been at a different airport, I would have had a way harder time.

• 29:10Holly Frey?

  Yeah, my understanding, and I haven't tested this and I haven't double checked it. But I saw someone talking about it recently that if you are traveling with a pet in Atlanta and possibly other airports, you can say, I have a pet. Can we do a private screening room?

• 29:25Tracy V. Wilson?

  Oh, nice. This was also in-

• 29:27Holly Frey?

  And that way-

• 29:28Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 29:29Holly Frey?

  Right, right.

• 29:30Tracy V. Wilson?

  This was in 2014.

• 29:31Holly Frey?

  This was years before this would have been an option.

• 29:32Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 29:33Holly Frey?

  Where they will take you to a different room that is closed off, so you don't have to worry about-

• 29:37Tracy V. Wilson?

  How nice.

• 29:38Holly Frey?

  My cat freaked out and jumped out of my arms, and now I don't know where it is in the airport.

• 29:41Tracy V. Wilson?

  They might have instituted that after some pets got lost in Atlanta.

• 29:45Holly Frey?

  Right. So I know there are some options like that. You just have to talk to a security supervisor usually and ask.

• 29:51Tracy V. Wilson?

  Nice.

• 29:52Holly Frey?

  But yeah, there, I love the Atlanta airport. If you're going to the Atlanta airport and you want to know where the best places to eat are, man, hit me up. I know them all. Cat Cora's got a great, great restaurant there on the Acon course. Some good shrimp and grits and a great cocktail program. Love it. In any case, listen, I love my city. I love Atlanta.

• 31:14Holly Frey?

  We've all done it, tumble down an internet rabbit hole trying to self diagnose. And sometimes doing our own research can leave us more anxious than informed. Your feed is packed with wellness trends telling you to cold plunge, protein max, detox, track your sleep. But what's actually real? What's exaggerated? What's just wrong? That's exactly what Health vs. Hype from the American Medical Association and iHeart Media's Ruby Studio is here to find out. Each episode, Emmy nominated science communicator Trace Dominguez, who's racked up billions of views across PBS, Discovery Channel, and YouTube, talks to doctors, influencers, and real people trying these trends.

• 31:56Holly Frey?

  Not to cancel them, not to hype them more, but to actually understand them. Because when it comes to your health, who you listen to matters. Start asking better questions and listen to Health vs. Hype on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 32:17Tracy V. Wilson?

  Guess who's back in the house? The old gays return for season two of Silver Linings, their hit podcast from iHeart's Ruby Studio in partnership with ViiV Healthcare. Just wait until you hear what hosts Robert McMillan and Jess A. have in store this time around. They strut back down memory lane navigating life, love, loss, and everything that shaped them along the way. And as usual, someone just might break into song. From leather bars to bathhouses, dance floors to drag brunch, nothing stays off limits. These are the kinds of insights that can only come from experience. So listen to your elders, honey, and discover the silver linings you can take with you. All sass, zero filter, and decades of perspective from four friends proving that queer joy

• 33:02Tracy V. Wilson?

  only gets better with age on the podcast that never gets old. Listen to Silver Linings, available on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 33:16Speaker 04

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• 34:00Speaker 04

  reinvented, based on real feedback, is made with 100% white meat chicken and is now better than ever. You gotta try the new Burger King Chicken Nuggets and sauces today.

• 34:13Tracy V. Wilson?

  We talked about Elizabeth Bulhame and chemistry this week.

• 34:17Holly Frey?

  Yes.

• 34:18Tracy V. Wilson?

  I enjoy finding random name mentions in books and going and figuring out if that was a real person, if I'm reading a work of fiction.

• 34:29Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 34:30Tracy V. Wilson?

  It happens in nonfiction too, obviously. Like, I'll be reading a book about something and a random historical person will be named as having been connected somehow. There were other folks in these last couple of books in the Edinburgh Night series that I noted as potential topics, who were just mentioned as side mentions at one point in the book. We may come to those at some point later. Elizabeth Bulhame, though, I found her fascinating.

• 34:58Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 34:59Tracy V. Wilson?

  Even though we know basically nothing.

• 35:01Holly Frey?

  Yeah. I have so many questions.

• 35:04Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah, tell me some of your questions.

• 35:07Holly Frey?

  Did any of this... I mean, because you know, I'm a textile girly.

• 35:11Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 35:11Holly Frey?

  And I dye a lot of my own fabric because I like customized stuff. Did she use any of it for anything?

• 35:18Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah, I don't know. So I-

• 35:20Holly Frey?

  Where are the clothes made of the purple fabric with gold flecks in it? Where are they?

• 35:25Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah, I, so I read the whole, her preface, her introduction. And then I sort of read parts of the experimental sections because it is a fairly long book. And it reached a point where I was like, reading every single one of these experiments is not going to add more to the episode.

• 35:42Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 35:43Tracy V. Wilson?

  So it's possible that she talked about using fabric for something at some point and that I just didn't read it in the parts of the book that I read.

• 35:52Holly Frey?

  Cause it's also very interesting to me that she was working mostly with silk because silk is-

• 35:59Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 36:00Holly Frey?

  This sounds a little counterintuitive for people that have not worked with it. Silk is a little easier to dye than most other fabrics because it just like slurps up pigment really fast. So it's interesting that she was working mostly with that. And I am, I would be curious if there were any, like, if she ever did a comparison of like, I did the exact same thing with a linen and with a silk and here, because I mean, if you do the same dye bath with those two fabrics, they're gonna look quite different.

• 36:30Tracy V. Wilson?

  Right.

• 36:30Holly Frey?

  Even if you have like, you know, a really incredible, high-quality pigment. So that's all fascinating to me. I also couldn't help but think the whole time that if she lived today, she would feel like a kid in a candy store. Because like, you can go to your local craft store and there are just aisles of dyeing options. You can get fabric dye in the grocery store.

• 36:57Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 36:57Holly Frey?

  For heaven's sakes, there are entire online forums of people just sharing tips about dye. How to use dye and how to achieve a particular dye if you're trying to replicate one specific garment. And people have formulas that they share and I'm like, she would, she would cry with joy. She would cry with joy.

• 37:18Holly Frey?

  Or she would be like, you're all doing it wrong, you lazy, lazy people.

• 37:20Tracy V. Wilson?

  Right.

• 37:21Holly Frey?

  Other people did all the work. I don't know.

• 37:23Tracy V. Wilson?

  I also think she really would have enjoyed like today's world of science communication that's really accessible to the general public.

• 37:34Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 37:34Tracy V. Wilson?

  Like, like we said, we don't really know if she went to any of the public lectures. You didn't have to be enrolled as a student. She may have, she may not have, those sorts of things definitely would have been less accessible for women, even if they were open to the public at the time. But if she were living today in a world where you can go to YouTube and there are a ton of different people like explaining things or showing, you know, showing their process for doing an experiment or for dyeing something or for doing a craft, like all of that stuff. There's just a much broader world of information access.

• 38:14Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 38:14Tracy V. Wilson?

  That, you know, as long as she had access to a computer and an internet connection, she would be able to get to.

• 38:22Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 38:23Tracy V. Wilson?

  Which I think she would have been very into.

• 38:25Holly Frey?

  Imagine how wowed she would be just studying the ways different cultures have used dye and pigment on textiles, you know, like techniques like batik would just blow her mind. Like, no, we're gonna put a wax resist on this first and then

• 38:41Tracy V. Wilson?

  Right.

• 38:42Holly Frey?

  we're gonna do that whole process you've been working on. Like,

• 38:45Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 38:45Holly Frey?

  I just think she would be wowed by it.

• 38:48Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I wonder what she was like as a person. I also wonder what her relationship with her husband was like. Because there's that part in the preface that makes it sound like when she was like, I have this idea that he was dismissive. Was he dismissive because he was underestimating her? Was he dismissive because of what he had learned about chemistry that just made him think it wouldn't work? Like, which?

• 39:18Holly Frey?

  Right.

• 39:18Tracy V. Wilson?

  What exactly was like, how much was he encouraging her and how much was he more tolerating her? Don't really know.

• 39:27Holly Frey?

  Right, or did he just lack the imagination to envision what she was talking about?

• 39:31Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 39:31Holly Frey?

  Which is not, that sounds like a criticism of him, but like, that's a thing that people come up against all the time when they're like, I have an idea. And it's just so unique that people cannot, cannot really perceive or see or imagine what that would look like. So they're like, I don't think so. I don't think that's possible.

• 39:49Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah. I imagine that her maps with gold cities and silver rivers must have been really beautiful.

• 39:57Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 39:59Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 39:59Holly Frey?

  Yeah. If she would put those maps on a fabric and then use that fabric for a gown.

• 40:07Tracy V. Wilson?

  I love it. I love it.

• 40:10Holly Frey?

  Like, I literally, my brain just keeps clicking through all the things that she would be wowed by. Like textile medium that you can mix with paint so that you can paint directly on fabric. And it won't get crispy. It will still have the flow of fab. That would blow her mind.

• 40:31Holly Frey?

  No, you can just use gold paint, babe. It's easy. It's, you don't have to do any chemical processing.

• 40:36Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah. Yeah. One of the things I was kind of amused by and also annoyed by was the review of her book in The Gentleman's Magazine. Because of its, uh, being like, wow, we really thought this must be a disguised feminist screed. Clearly written by Mary Wollstonecraft or somebody. And wow, it turns out to be about science. And I was like, did somebody send you a copy of the book that didn't have the preface in it? Because some of her prefaces, I feel like would annoy whoever wrote this review.

• 41:11Holly Frey?

  Right. Yeah, I don't know.

• 41:14Tracy V. Wilson?

  Or did you just skip over the preface and go right to?

• 41:17Holly Frey?

  People do.

• 41:18Tracy V. Wilson?

  Some people do do that.

• 41:20Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 41:20Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 41:21Holly Frey?

  How many prefaces have we read on the show that start out with the, like, some variation of the phrase? No one reads prefaces, but it's important to me to say this. I mean, I can think of several, so.

• 41:35Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah. I'm also thinking about the acknowledgements at the end of books. Where it seems like the author is just taking for granted that nobody's gonna read that part. Yeah. Anyway, I am very curious if in some, you know, church parish records somewhere, we know more about her or some very local source of information, if there's more details that we could find. I think a lot of other people that we have been talking about on the show before, from, you know, somewhere in the British and Irish Isles. The fact that we don't, that there wasn't a civil registration when they were living

• 42:20Tracy V. Wilson?

  was not as big of a deal because they were a more prominent person and they had families that were keeping up with that information or other people writing about them as shortly after or during their lives that like recorded a lot of that information. We just don't have that for her. And so she's a person with basically no biography for us to talk about on the show.

• 42:41Holly Frey?

  Oh, Elizabeth.

• 42:42Tracy V. Wilson?

  I love her. My next episode is not about anyone named Elizabeth.

• 42:47Holly Frey?

  I don't believe you.

• 42:48Tracy V. Wilson?

  I don't know what's happening after that. May or may not be an Elizabeth. But after that is unearthed, so at least it will not be named Elizabeth.

• 43:00Holly Frey?

  Though there could be an Elizabeth within it.

• 43:02Tracy V. Wilson?

  I would say there are good odds of someone named Elizabeth in some way coming up during Unearthed, either as a subject or a researcher.

• 43:13Holly Frey?

  Great.

• 43:13Tracy V. Wilson?

  Totally possible.

• 43:14Holly Frey?

  Great.

• 43:15Tracy V. Wilson?

  Totally possible.

• 43:16Holly Frey?

  This edition of Unearthed is all about Elizabeth the first.

• 43:20Tracy V. Wilson?

  We're only going to have Queen Elizabeth unearthing, nothing else. So whatever's happening on your weekend, I hope it is great. If there is something that has sparked your curiosity, I hope so much that you get to indulge that curiosity over the weekend because that can bring so much joy and fulfillment into life. If you are just having to keep your head down and keep going this weekend, I hope that is going as well as possible. We will be back on Monday with something brand new. And tomorrow we'll have a Saturday classic.

• 44:05Tracy V. Wilson?

  Stuff You Missed in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

• 44:19Holly Frey?

  A rare disease diagnosis can change your life, but it doesn't have to define your future. In season seven of Untold Stories: Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, host Martine Hackett continues the conversation with people living with MG, CIDP, and the broader rare disease community, exploring what comes after diagnosis through stories of hope, progress, and connection. Produced by Ruby Studio in partnership with Argenx. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 44:50Tracy V. Wilson?

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• 45:25Speaker 02

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• 45:53Tracy V. Wilson?

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• 46:30Speaker 06

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• 46:57Speaker 00

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