Relationships 101

Jonny and Yusef from PropaneFitness.com join me for the first episode in a new series on relationships. Come with us as we delve into the murky waters of finding, choosing and connecting with a partner. Very quickly this channel is becoming a hub for the advice I wish I'd had 10 years ago, hopefully this episode helps you expedite a path to happiness and avoid the pitfalls of finding another human to connect with. We've got a lot more coming soon. Referred Resources: "Women Date Up And Across Dominance Hierarchies" - Jordan Peterson on Female Hypergamy and Its Impact on Human Evolution: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7LN14IpVy0 Hypergamy Defined: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypergamy JBP on The Male Dominance Hierarchy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUiG5_GcMyY Demographics of Cheating by age: https://ifstudies.org/blog/who-cheats-more-the-demographics-of-cheating-in-america Why We Are Fated To Be Lonely - The School Of Life: https://youtu.be/AtCR6P5rsXU - Listen to all episodes online. Search "Modern Wisdom" on any Podcast App or click here: iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/gb/podcast/modern-wisdom/id1347973549 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0XrOqvxlqQI6bmdYHuIVnr?si=iUpczE97SJqe1kNdYBipnw Stitcher: https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/modern-wisdom - I want to hear from you!! Get in touch in the comments below or head to... Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/chriswillx Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chriswillx Email: [email protected]

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:05Chris Williamson?

  So hello, hi everybody.

• 0:07Speaker 01

  Hello.

• 0:08Chris Williamson?

  The long awaited Yusuf and Jonny guest appearance. Because you've been on without me, haven't you? Can't believe you did that.

• 0:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was while you were away and then I missed your birthday.

• 0:19Chris Williamson?

  I remember.

• 0:19Speaker 01

  But I've got you some coffee now, so.

• 0:21Chris Williamson?

  Well, no, I have to wait to see if I'm allowed the coffee. Because Yusuf bought two bags, one that needs grinding and one that doesn't need grinding.

• 0:29Speaker 01

  For two people.

• 0:29Chris Williamson?

  And you know.

• 0:30Speaker 01

  One may not have a grinder. One definitely has a grinder.

• 0:32Chris Williamson?

  And one is on grinder.

• 0:33Speaker 01

  One is on grinder. So not even by his choice.

• 0:37Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 0:38Speaker 01

  I have been on. I wonder if you're still on grinder?

• 0:40Chris Williamson?

  I was on grinder twice.

• 0:41Speaker 01

  Catfish. You've both catfished, been catfished?

• 0:44Chris Williamson?

  Been catfished on grinder, yeah.

• 0:46Speaker 01

  Or been the, been the subject.

• 0:48Chris Williamson?

  Been the catfish on grinder. Um, later on, when we do our first ever Q and A, make sure that you tune in for that.

• 0:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 0:58Chris Williamson?

  Um, when we do our first ever Q and A, did you see that there's one question which wasn't a question? It just said, I wish he was, I wish he lived close enough to me so that I could find him on Tinder in my radius.

• 1:08Speaker 01

  You need to expand your radius ultimately, like.

• 1:11Chris Williamson?

  You know what you need? Tinder Pro.

• 1:14Speaker 01

  Or you can just travel around.

• 1:15Chris Williamson?

  Drop yourself, can you?

• 1:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:18Chris Williamson?

  Uh, so speaking of Tinder, we are going to talk about dating advice today.

• 1:22Speaker 01

  Dating.

• 1:22Chris Williamson?

  Dating. Um.

• 1:24Speaker 01

  Dating.

• 1:25Chris Williamson?

  It's something that I've been.

• 1:29Chris Williamson?

  Relationships has been a podcast that we wanted to do for ages and dating advice. Yeah, real long time. Dating advice for me forms a nice foundation for that because

• 1:41Chris Williamson?

  most people will go through the process of dating someone that kind of, you can take it from the moment that you meet someone that you may fancy up until the point at which they become your boyfriend or girlfriend.

• 1:51Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:52Chris Williamson?

  And there's an awful lot, like that's a, an area that covers many sins, right?

• 1:57Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:58Chris Williamson?

  From first dates to seeing someone, whatever the fuck that means, to when you define the relationship and.

• 2:04Jonny?

  From initial to being exclusive with someone.

• 2:06Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 2:07Jonny?

  What I'm talking about from initial to marriage.

• 2:09Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, yeah, exactly.

• 2:10Jonny?

  So, yeah, because I would, I would say arguably all of that is technically in my mind. I know that's ridiculous.

• 2:15Chris Williamson?

  No, no, it's still kind of dating.

• 2:17Jonny?

  Like, because I think it's, all of it's just arbitrary.

• 2:19Chris Williamson?

  Well, what is a relationship? A relationship's.

• 2:21Jonny?

  Legal.

• 2:22Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, you've not litigated yourself into a relationship until you're married, right?

• 2:25Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 2:26Chris Williamson?

  So, but, you know, so all of this we can try and conceptualize down. So I wanted to.

• 2:30Speaker 01

  Should we move chronologically then, from single life all the way up to?

• 2:34Chris Williamson?

  Hmm, I want to leave single life.

• 2:36Jonny?

  Unlock this, make another fresh note, maybe make some notes.

• 2:38Chris Williamson?

  Sure.

• 2:39Jonny?

  I just want to organize my thoughts. Sorry, I couldn't, I couldn't do it to your line.

• 2:43Chris Williamson?

  Lemo, I make, I make notes now. This isn't a Russell Brand thing, but I do actually make notes. So I wanted to

• 2:52Chris Williamson?

  posit to you a bunch of things that I've been thinking recently about. What are you laughing at? What are you laughing at?

• 2:57Jonny?

  Just that he's got a, what's Swift key?

• 3:00Chris Williamson?

  Well, just leave him to talk about it.

• 3:03Jonny?

  Oh, no, no, it's that he's got a special keyboard on his phone.

• 3:07Chris Williamson?

  Just leave him to talk about it and that we can life act it out.

• 3:10Jonny?

  Oh, yeah, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

• 3:11Speaker 01

  In, in two weeks' time.

• 3:13Chris Williamson?

  Listeners and, and viewers on the brand new three camera home YouTube setup.

• 3:21Jonny?

  Three D.

• 3:22Chris Williamson?

  One, two, Trez. Um, the reason that I may seem a little agitated is that Johnny was fifty minutes late and Yusuf was ninety minutes late and we've planned this for two weeks.

• 3:36Speaker 01

  You've been kind though. I was more than ninety minutes late.

• 3:38Chris Williamson?

  Okay.

• 3:40Speaker 01

  Despite having six, seven days' notice for this.

• 3:44Chris Williamson?

  It's fine. So.

• 3:45Speaker 01

  It's gone.

• 3:46Chris Williamson?

  Moving on. Um, I wanted to talk about, it's gone.

• 3:51Chris Williamson?

  I wanted to talk about.

• 3:53Jonny?

  Sorry.

• 3:56Jonny?

  I'll be sensible.

• 3:59Chris Williamson?

  You're testing me.

• 4:00Jonny?

  It's alright, well, it'll, it'll, you've got to, you've got to warm in.

• 4:04Chris Williamson?

  Warm?

• 4:04Jonny?

  Warm up to it.

• 4:05Chris Williamson?

  Right.

• 4:05Jonny?

  He's just got here, he's freezing cold. Go on, go, go.

• 4:10Chris Williamson?

  So, I wanted to talk about dating and

• 4:14Chris Williamson?

  what I've been thinking about, while I was away in America, I ended up having a chat with a young girl over there who'd kind of been going through the throes of her first serious relationship. And what came out of that was me making some realisations and some rules about my past behaviour that girls could stick to, which would form a framework for them to avoid bad guys and stick with good guys.

• 4:40Speaker 01

  So some heuristics that they can follow.

• 4:42Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 4:42Speaker 01

  To keep them on the.

• 4:43Chris Williamson?

  On the right path.

• 4:44Jonny?

  Are you a bad guy or a good guy in that?

• 4:47Chris Williamson?

  I was, I was the person that you should avoid.

• 4:50Jonny?

  Right.

• 4:50Chris Williamson?

  And the reason that I know the things that you need to look out for and the barriers you need to put in place is because they were the ones that would have tripped me up.

• 4:58Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 4:59Chris Williamson?

  So this is the cheat.

• 4:59Jonny?

  This is, this is behind the curtain, like.

• 5:01Chris Williamson?

  This is the cheat, this is the cheat codes of how to get around assholes.

• 5:03Speaker 01

  Reverse engineered it. Okay, I would also like to contest that further down the line over that you are someone who you want to avoid.

• 5:11Chris Williamson?

  But you only know me, you only know me from what, when I was 24, 25?

• 5:15Speaker 01

  True.

• 5:16Chris Williamson?

  And before that, I'm talking, I'm talking like 18 to 23. So anyway, I've got some, so let me, let me foundation it for you. Every guy under the age of around about 23, if you take the average, is not really worthy of being in a relationship with. And if you want to have a relationship with someone who's balanced and for it to last for a long time as a girl, I, I think that you're fighting a losing battle. I think that under the age of 23 to 25, most guys think with the penis first. They don't have a very solid understanding of who they are. And they're constantly chasing after, for the most part, they're heavily chasing after female attention to help them bolster their own ego because they don't have a

• 6:00Chris Williamson?

  concrete sense of character about who they are anymore. Now, obviously, there's going to be outliers in this. Perfect example is my business partner Darren. So he met his missus in the second year of uni, I think they got together in the third year. They moved in when they were 21, 22. They got a dog when they were twenty five, they got married when they were twenty six, they got another dog at twenty seven, they had, they got a kid at twenty nine or twenty eight. And now they're in this amazing house and they.

• 6:26Speaker 01

  Very systematic progression.

• 6:28Chris Williamson?

  They've, it is the perfect framework.

• 6:31Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 6:31Chris Williamson?

  The equivalent of the American dream, but like marriage and college sweetheart, like it's, they've got it. But they're the outliers.

• 6:39Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 6:39Chris Williamson?

  Especially for him, he is the absolute rarity in this situation. So I think. A lot of the time, people who don't understand what I do, my job now as a club promoter is actually more as just a leader and a glorified parent. So I'm a, a pretty much a big brother to between two hundred and fifty and five hundred students. In Newcastle and Manchester every single year and every year I get older, but they stay the same age. They just get replaced. There's just this conveyor belt of new people coming in and the same situations come up over and over and over and over again. And these people who work for you or people who. Work for me.

• 7:18Speaker 01

  Right.

• 7:19Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, not people in the clubs, not, I'm not close enough to the people that are in the clubs. But these are people who are in the clubs and they're just ones that I'm closer to.

• 7:26Speaker 01

  That's because you tell the people who tell the people, who tell the people to go to the clubs.

• 7:29Chris Williamson?

  To go to the clubs, yeah, exactly. You've, that's the correct framework.

• 7:32Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 7:32Chris Williamson?

  So I think one of the first things that girls need to be really conscious of, and I'm gonna, I'm going to do guys.

• 7:40Speaker 01

  Right.

• 7:41Chris Williamson?

  Um, I'm going to do guys as well. I'm going to give advice to guys.

• 7:44Speaker 01

  Got it.

• 7:44Chris Williamson?

  But I'm going to go for girls first.

• 7:46Speaker 01

  Just to add to your foundation there as well, I think you said that. Going for a man under twenty three and expecting someone who is stable and emotionally mature and reliable.

• 7:57Chris Williamson?

  Mm hmm.

• 7:58Speaker 01

  For a relationship purpose is losing battle because statistically they're not going to be, I think, and I remember you discussed this as well, which is that. There's a, the.

• 8:09Speaker 01

  The curves of when men and women emotionally mature don't overlap properly. And I think by age twenty three, there's a stark difference in like, there's probably, both genders have a surge period where they do emotionally mature, but they don't coincide. And so you can end up with an absolute idiot and wondering how you got there.

• 8:29Chris Williamson?

  Well, the thing is that at the age of about twenty one, I would say that the vast majority of guys are still assholes and girls are still psychos. Now, I know that's colloquially termed, but everyone who's listening knows what I mean. The girls have had their hearts broken by some guy who didn't know how to treat them correctly. Maybe once, maybe a couple of times, their trust in men is just through the floor. Guys have realised-

• 8:50Speaker 01

  The mindset of like sex as conquest and trying to like-

• 8:53Chris Williamson?

  That's what guys are.

• 8:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:54Chris Williamson?

  Guys are, guys are numbers on the, notches on the headboard and just spray it about as much as possible.

• 9:01Speaker 01

  Spray.

• 9:01Chris Williamson?

  Spray it about. Um, so I'm having this discussion with this girl in America and I was just having a little bit of a think about what it is that girls need to be wary of. And basically, what is the format, you know, on this podcast, we talk about life hacks. We try and lay out in as simple and conceptual a way as possible, how you can be optimal, right? Like, what's the best way to behave in the world? And this may not be the best way, but it's the best way that I can think of. So it's worth me like saying to you guys, right? It's worth me articulating.

• 9:35Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 9:37Chris Williamson?

  The first thing that I think that girls need to do when they start speaking to guys, and this is in, you've met them in a club or you've like matched them on Tinder or you've started chatting to them from work or whatever it might be. When you first begin speaking to them, I think that girls get too much of a bad rap for giving lads a hard time and making them jump through hoops. Personally, for me, I don't think they're making them jump high enough. Like, I think that the hurdles that are laid down by girls for men, especially when you're talking twenty, twenty one, twenty two, twenty three, and but up to, you know, throughout the whole way through life, I think the high that the hurdles are, as long as you are making sure that the man knows that you're interested and that you're giving them sufficient attention to know that they're going to continue to play the game, I think it's a win-win scenario,

• 10:22Chris Williamson?

  including for the men, right? And let me tell you why. So. Firstly, if you're laying down, and by laying down hurdles, what I mean is not folding or compromising on something that you think, when they do something wrong, you tell them straight away and you put them in their place. When they make plans and they cancel them, you don't need to go overboard. You don't need to be passive aggressive, and we'll get on to that in a second, because that is the number one way to remove the integrity of what you're saying, right? Passive aggressiveness for me is up there with the top no-nos that you should, that girls should do in relationships, and guys as well. By laying down these hurdles for girls, the first thing that it does is it certifies

• 11:06Chris Williamson?

  that the guy who you're speaking to is invested in you in the long term. If they're not prepared to get past you asking them a question about their last relationship, or you asking them to make plans for a night out. If you ask them, okay, let's go out on Wednesday, but I'm gonna let you plan the date. I'll plan the next one, but you plan the date, and you turn up and you then says, I've got nothing planned. You need to tell him that he's fucked up. You need to say, that's shit. That's not, that's not a good investment in your time.

• 11:40Speaker 01

  So it's, the, the example there is, is having a principle and making sure that the principle is upheld.

• 11:48Chris Williamson?

  Draw some hard lines in the sand of what is and is not acceptable behaviour.

• 11:51Speaker 01

  So I think I've seen both ends of the spectrum where either there is shit testing for shit testing's sake, and it almost is like, it's contrived, it's just trying to give someone a hard time for the sake of it, but there's no real underlying principle. Very similar to, if you've seen the argument clinic on Monty Python, where he goes into the room and he's like, hello, am I in the right room for an argument? He's like, no, you aren't.

• 12:14Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's, can you briefly explain what shit testing is, please, for people who don't know pick-up artistry?

• 12:20Speaker 01

  Ultimately, well, so, yeah, let's get on to pick-up artistry as well, but yeah, so shit testing, just what you've said, giving someone a, like, a hard time or, or to see how they respond.

• 12:29Chris Williamson?

  That, yeah, it's for the purpose, it's the purpose of doing that though, right?

• 12:32Speaker 01

  Purely for that, without an underlying.

• 12:34Chris Williamson?

  It's the female equivalent of nagging, right?

• 12:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, so, so the, and what my point is, there has to be a certain agenda. And that has to be a stable set of principles.

• 12:44Chris Williamson?

  It's got to be born out of integrity.

• 12:46Speaker 01

  Whereas at one point in the argument clinic, he's like, no, it isn't. Yes, it is. No, hang on. This isn't an argument. This is just contradiction. You're like, no, it isn't. Yes, it is. Like, an argument is a series of statements formed around a specific foundational point. Whereas you're just, like, disagreeing with everything that I say. And so there's the difference. I think, like, if it's, if it's upholding a certain set of values.

• 13:07Chris Williamson?

  Yes.

• 13:08Speaker 01

  Then, yeah.

• 13:09Chris Williamson?

  You're totally right. And that's, that's something that I've missed. And.

• 13:11Speaker 01

  And the other side of it is just being a doormat.

• 13:13Chris Williamson?

  It needs to be, it needs to be born of what you, what do you consider as a goal? To be acceptable and unacceptable behaviour in a man? Then, draw the lines in the sand and don't compromise on them. So here's the reasons that it's good, that. You are going to make sure that the men that you invest your time in are sufficiently invested in you. Because the ones who fall at the first hurdle and aren't prepared to get over it. What do you think was going to fucking happen when they're drunk in a nightclub and some girl comes up to them? Like, this is.

• 13:46Chris Williamson?

  It's making sure that they can bear a sufficiently heavy load, even at a fucking empty bar level of a heavy load. That when they have to go and do a one rep max in terms of virtue. That they might actually have the capacity to bear it. Does that make sense?

• 14:01Speaker 01

  Just looking at their bar speed when the, when the bar is empty.

• 14:04Chris Williamson?

  This is probably gonna go off the head of a few girls. There's gonna be like two CrossFit girls that know what I'm talking about.

• 14:09Speaker 01

  But you're at the bar. What if you were at a pub? No, no, no.

• 14:12Chris Williamson?

  Why would I be in the bar? So, okay, so that's the fir-, that's the first thing that's good.

• 14:17Jonny?

  Before we move on.

• 14:17Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 14:19Jonny?

  These, these principles, if we are, for someone who's listening.

• 14:23Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 14:24Jonny?

  Does this apply, so I think there has to be a conversation of like.

• 14:29Chris Williamson?

  Is this person looking for a one night stand scenario? Are they looking to move towards? Have I jumped ahead?

• 14:37Jonny?

  No.

• 14:38Chris Williamson?

  No.

• 14:38Jonny?

  You've asked the perfect question.

• 14:40Chris Williamson?

  Alright.

• 14:40Jonny?

  Because I think you have to begin with the end of mind, don't you?

• 14:42Chris Williamson?

  If, as a girl, all that you're... If you want a pasting as a girl, like, crack on, find a guy that is...

• 14:51Jonny?

  Lower the barriers.

• 14:52Chris Williamson?

  Well, lower the barriers but heighten the standards. Like, because if you want a one night stand, your parameters for what you're looking for in a mate, change?

• 15:00Jonny?

  Yep.

• 15:00Chris Williamson?

  Intellectually, how bothered are you? But in terms of, you probably want someone who's a bit lean. You probably want someone who's muscular, who physically fits the attributes that you need. Whereas, you know, we've all been around beautiful but stupid people. Right? And vice versa. Really interesting people who we're not sexually attracted to.

• 15:16Speaker 01

  And I find that dynamic so interesting, because if you ask most women, and women, if you're listening and disagree, please say, but like, any woman I've spoken to, when I've asked, would you have sex with a man who you find physically attractive but was really bored you? It was boring as hell. As opposed to someone who you maybe, you found attractive but you hated? And they prefer to have sex with a man who they hated, because at least there's some intensity there, there's some passion.

• 15:40Chris Williamson?

  Some feeling.

• 15:41Speaker 01

  Whereas I think men are much different in the sense that, like, you could have sex with someone that you found quite boring.

• 15:48Jonny?

  I think men would scale it to a very mechanical interaction, whereas I think women less so.

• 15:53Chris Williamson?

  It's much more visceral as a man, right? So, perfectly correct. If all that you're looking for is sex, then change your parameters around.

• 16:01Jonny?

  So this is a different...

• 16:02Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, so I'm talking about dating. I wouldn't say, I wouldn't class dating. If you need to go out on the pole, then we will do. And if you want a podcast on that, then we'll do a podcast on how to be single. Like...

• 16:13Jonny?

  This isn't, this isn't trading, it's investing. This isn't day trading, it's not short term positions. This is, I'm looking for a long term position.

• 16:21Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, so...

• 16:22Speaker 01

  It's not going helpful either on crypto, is it?

• 16:23Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, yeah, exactly. You're not, you're not margin trading, you're not doing fifty to...

• 16:27Jonny?

  Wealth creation.

• 16:28Chris Williamson?

  Yes, exactly. So...

• 16:29Jonny?

  Hopefully that made it much clearer.

• 16:34Chris Williamson?

  So, that's the first thing that's good, right? So it means that you filter out the bottom feeders. The men who aren't worth your time. And you, you jump ahead a couple of steps. So, cool. Second thing that's good is it sets a tone for the relationship moving forward.

• 16:52Chris Williamson?

  That means that you're not going to take shit.

• 16:55Jonny?

  Hmm.

• 16:55Chris Williamson?

  So we all know, and we'll go out to this when we do relationships, the proper relationships podcast. For me, the key in almost every relationship is like the first six weeks to 10 weeks. The reason being that you set precedent after precedent after precedent for what happens in X situation and Y situation and Z situation. What happens when you don't get a message after someone's been on a night out saying that they've got home safe? How do you react? How do you react when they get in late? How do you react when they cancel the date? How do you react when they do whatever? So I forgot to say that particular camera can only do around about 20 minutes at a time. Every so often, I'm gonna pass it on to you. I'm gonna have to get up and I'm gonna have to change it. Thanks, video guy Dean.

• 17:39Jonny?

  You're gonna pass it on to, as in we speak and then I'm gonna get up and get to that.

• 17:42Chris Williamson?

  If you're just listening, that's completely pointless, but it's fine. So it sets the tone for the relationship moving forwards, right? It means that you are drawing lines in the sand, not only for now that filter out potential mates, but you're also training them to be a good mate for you.

• 18:02Chris Williamson?

  The third and final one, and this is the one that I think is most holistic moving forward, is men really, in fact, I'm gonna make this into a four. Thirdly, men really fucking need this. The reason being that it makes them learn what is and is not acceptable behaviour for women. Like if you are with a guy and you find out that he's been messaging your mate and you think that that, based on your own values and your own integrity, you think that that is unacceptable behaviour and you bin him off, that's only gonna happen to him two or three times before he goes,

• 18:39Chris Williamson?

  I probably need to change my behaviour. The reason that this continues to happen. Is that guys were able to weed all the way through, and this is speaking from experience because for years and years and years, I was able to outwit girls that I was seeing to one degree or another, whatever level of depth you want to say that is. And I was able to, I was able to get myself out of it. So I never learned.

• 19:01Speaker 01

  This is the Parkinson's law, like in a social context. So Parkinson's law is where you, a task fills the time that you've allocated to it. And I'm sure if you've been working to a deadline with an essay or something, you're like, for some reason, you, there's no way you can just get it done a week in advance in a two hours.

• 19:19Chris Williamson?

  Night before.

• 19:19Speaker 01

  It's, yeah, always extends to that. And the same thing, like, if a certain behaviour is permitted frequently, then you lower your own standards for yourself.

• 19:29Chris Williamson?

  Get reinforced.

• 19:30Speaker 01

  So as a man, you want someone to hold you to a higher standards. Like Earl Nightingale says, the, treat a man as you expect him to be, not as he is, and, you know, give him the room to expand to that and to rise up to that.

• 19:43Chris Williamson?

  Perfect.

• 19:43Speaker 01

  Challenge. So.

• 19:44Chris Williamson?

  That, that quote has managed to make a good synopsis, I think, of everything that I've come up with here. So, uh, go on.

• 19:53Jonny?

  I, I think if I had, I think as a twenty one year old, or even younger, like twenty year old, I was too ego driven

• 20:06Jonny?

  to have probably realised the, I, I think as a, as a young guy, you take a lot of advice like this, or I know this isn't aimed at guys, this part, or is it?

• 20:15Chris Williamson?

  Well, it can be, it should be, because guys should realise they can make implications from this. The vast majority of the audience that's listening to this, maybe two thirds of it are men.

• 20:24Jonny?

  Are men, okay.

• 20:25Speaker 01

  I think all of the behaviours you've covered.

• 20:27Jonny?

  There's a flip to both sides.

• 20:28Speaker 01

  They, they, they exist on both directions.

• 20:31Chris Williamson?

  And I think that men should be interested in why women are motivated the way that they are, and women should be vice versa.

• 20:36Speaker 01

  And men, men should hold women to a higher standard of behaviour as well.

• 20:39Chris Williamson?

  Just wait, we're gonna get that.

• 20:40Speaker 01

  Okay, oh yeah.

• 20:41Jonny?

  Yeah, I, I just, I think the, I think it's hard to, as a guy that age. When I think you're finding your like your own feelings and your own beliefs in a lot of areas like this. Like what I think is true in these situations, you're forming judgments based on experiences. And someone says, actually, women, you know, a woman should treat you like this. I think a lot of guys, when faced with higher standards or sort of a framework that they have to operate in. Sort of resist and go for the the person who's not doing that.

• 21:12Chris Williamson?

  Lowest hanging fruit.

• 21:13Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 21:14Chris Williamson?

  It's just easier.

• 21:15Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 21:15Chris Williamson?

  But they don't want to be, they don't want to be challenged with that. But again, as girls, do you want to be low hanging fucking fruit?

• 21:20Jonny?

  No, of course.

• 21:21Chris Williamson?

  So we go back, we go back to the first, the first advantage that you get. The fact that you filter out the guys that aren't worth your time. And if, again, with this, there's kind of like a curve, right? So one night stand is this particular level and then I want marriage is this particular level and then anywhere in between.

• 21:39Jonny?

  There's some, yeah.

• 21:40Chris Williamson?

  Do you understand? So you can go, okay, well, I can lay down lines in the sand that are sufficiently hard as I need to. But imagine if tomorrow, every woman on the planet adhered to a similar framework as this. There would be a lot less, there would be, there would be a lot less sex for a long time. But imagine where men would be in 20 years. Like if, because if you want, if you want, if you want to have sex with a woman.

• 22:08Chris Williamson?

  You have, and if you want to be in a relationship with a woman, you have to learn how to treat it correctly. You have to learn what isn't, is not acceptable behaviour. And if you fuck up, you will be better for the next woman who comes around.

• 22:22Jonny?

  So this is, this is coming from a, this whole conversation is coming from a perspective of like, women are the. On the victim's side of this equation, like men mistreat women.

• 22:32Chris Williamson?

  That men are the sexual protagonists and.

• 22:34Jonny?

  And women give access to that.

• 22:36Chris Williamson?

  Women, women, women, female women.

• 22:42Speaker 01

  That's probably a correct statement.

• 22:43Jonny?

  The female kind.

• 22:46Chris Williamson?

  Human females is what I meant.

• 22:47Jonny?

  Got it.

• 22:48Chris Williamson?

  Human females are the only females in the animal kingdom that are sexually selective, right?

• 22:54Jonny?

  Okay.

• 22:55Chris Williamson?

  So.

• 22:55Jonny?

  Everyone else is just.

• 22:56Chris Williamson?

  If a chimpanzee is on heat, she'll mate with the alpha male. But only because he's there.

• 23:02Jonny?

  Got it.

• 23:02Chris Williamson?

  Given the opportunity.

• 23:03Jonny?

  Yep.

• 23:04Chris Williamson?

  She'll mate with any male when she's on heat.

• 23:06Jonny?

  Okay.

• 23:07Chris Williamson?

  The only reason she mates with the alpha male is because there's a threat of violence and because they're, because they're available.

• 23:12Jonny?

  Big bench press.

• 23:13Chris Williamson?

  And he's got.

• 23:14Jonny?

  He will be. I bet he does. He's got the biggest bench press he does. So.

• 23:17Chris Williamson?

  And I'm going to now move on to women mate across and up dominance hierarchies.

• 23:25Speaker 01

  Okay, what do, what do men mate across and up?

• 23:29Chris Williamson?

  Across and down.

• 23:30Speaker 01

  Do you think men just mate across and down?

• 23:32Jonny?

  So they never, they never shoot. When you say dominance hierarchies, you mean like, I'm a seven out of 10, they're a nine out of 10. Is that, you mean on that level of basis? Or do you mean?

• 23:42Speaker 01

  That's attractiveness, isn't it?

• 23:43Jonny?

  Well, that's what I'm trying to get. Like, what do we mean by dominance hierarchy in this?

• 23:46Chris Williamson?

  So it's how, it's, it's how you have raised yourself up through the social, how high your social equity is, is one way that you could put it. So dominance hierarchy is, and the reason for this is, you have twice as many mothers anthropologically, evolutionarily, as you do men.

• 24:10Chris Williamson?

  Do you know that fact?

• 24:10Jonny?

  I didn't.

• 24:11Chris Williamson?

  Right. So what that means is that on average in history.

• 24:15Jonny?

  Yep.

• 24:15Chris Williamson?

  Every woman has had one child and every other man has had two.

• 24:21Jonny?

  Got it.

• 24:21Chris Williamson?

  Does that make sense?

• 24:22Jonny?

  Got it.

• 24:22Chris Williamson?

  So you have what's called a Pareto distribution, which is nothing, nothing, nothing, everything. And that's because human males.

• 24:32Chris Williamson?

  Are chosen at the top of the dominance hierarchy. So you have losers and you have winners. Whereas with females, the distribution is more even. Does that make sense?

• 24:43Jonny?

  Yep, yep.

• 24:44Chris Williamson?

  And the reason for that is that men mate across and down.

• 24:49Jonny?

  And women.

• 24:50Chris Williamson?

  Mate across and up.

• 24:52Jonny?

  So what, let's, let's take a very basic example of this. So I'm a really, really attractive woman. Right. I know it's hard to imagine, but let's say.

• 25:01Chris Williamson?

  Very shapely.

• 25:02Jonny?

  Let's say I am.

• 25:03Chris Williamson?

  It's not just, remembering it's not just, we're not just talking attractiveness here, it's.

• 25:06Jonny?

  I know, I know. But so I consider myself as a result of that and my social status to be pretty high. So I would then rather sleep with someone or mate with someone who I perceive to be of a higher social status than me.

• 25:23Chris Williamson?

  Or on a level.

• 25:24Jonny?

  Or on a level, almost in spite of what they look like necessarily. So like if someone.

• 25:30Chris Williamson?

  It depends on, it depends on how, the dominance hierarchy will usually be influenced by looks as well.

• 25:35Jonny?

  Right. Okay.

• 25:36Chris Williamson?

  That would be an.

• 25:37Speaker 01

  There are multiple overlapping dominance hierarchies. And so, so like, rather than having one big one that all of humanity follows. That would mean that only one person would reach the top and it was competition would be so stiff. And so we create multiple ones that.

• 25:49Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 25:49Speaker 01

  Within different social circles. So if you're working in, if, if you're a, if you're a solicitor. Then like that you operate in a different hierarchy to if you're a bodybuilder and then, you know, all these things and we create our own.

• 26:03Chris Williamson?

  And the characteristics.

• 26:04Jonny?

  And it's like geographical and within friendship circles and.

• 26:07Chris Williamson?

  So yeah, absolutely.

• 26:09Jonny?

  But at the extreme of what I was trying to get at is you see, you, you have this image, it's like, people joke about it of like the, the really fantastically attractive model who's married to a guy who is 80 years old, but extremely wealthy.

• 26:24Chris Williamson?

  She's not marrying for love.

• 26:25Jonny?

  Well, okay, but.

• 26:27Speaker 01

  But she sees him up.

• 26:28Jonny?

  As a very high social status.

• 26:29Chris Williamson?

  To a degree, but I still don't think that she's marrying for love. That's that's marrying or being in a relationship without integrity again.

• 26:35Jonny?

  Okay, so that's contrary to this this model.

• 26:38Chris Williamson?

  To a degree, yeah. I don't think she's marrying up and across dominance hierarchies. I think she's marrying up and across income hierarchies. Like, she's just waiting for the fucking world to come around.

• 26:46Speaker 01

  It's a form of a dominance hierarchy, but yeah, the the agenda there is skewed because like the typical gold digger thing is like you're waiting for someone to die so that you can inherit them.

• 26:55Jonny?

  The income may be associated with like social status.

• 26:58Speaker 01

  But they're still, they're not like.

• 27:00Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, okay, so there's maybe some that like the idea of it dragging them up a little bit. So um you you touched on an interesting point, and I can imagine that some people at home might be thinking that this does sound like men are the sexual aggressors and women are victims, these maidens in waiting, right? But we cannot get away from the fact that women are the ones that make the decision to say yes or no broadly, okay?

• 27:24Speaker 01

  They have to bear a greater biological load for. That's not be my experience.

• 27:31Chris Williamson?

  Sorry, sorry, Becker. So they're the ones, they're the ones that make the decision broadly, okay?

• 27:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:37Chris Williamson?

  They're the ones that get to say yes or no. So what that means is that there are more men prepared to have sex with women with women than there are women prepared to have sex with men. And this is the reason for this. You have on average one mother and two. Do you know what I mean? You have half the number of fathers as you do parents, as you do mothers, okay? So the implication of that for men

• 28:04Chris Williamson?

  is quite interesting, I think, actually. Like, what does that mean as a man that you should be doing? It means that first off, if you want to be successful with women, by luck or by crook, the dominance hierarchy is probably a pretty good place to start. It's kind of like waving a flag above your head. And, you know, there's I'll link, I'll make sure that I link in the show notes below some of the studies about the mating like across and above and across and below. But as a man, you almost set a glass ceiling.

• 31:04Jonny?

  For sure.

• 31:04Chris Williamson?

  What do you think that says about you?

• 31:06Jonny?

  I think that's true for me too, but I don't, uh, not in a gay bar, like not in that.

• 31:10Speaker 01

  It's because you've got like a neotinous face, but you're like, but you're quite like angular.

• 31:14Chris Williamson?

  Please tell us.

• 31:15Jonny?

  Yesterday, he tried to tell me that his language vocabulary is poor.

• 31:20Chris Williamson?

  What's neotinous?

• 31:20Jonny?

  Neotinous.

• 31:21Speaker 01

  Like a sort of cherub like, like a younger face.

• 31:25Jonny?

  Right.

• 31:26Speaker 01

  But like the, the, this is, this is other people's words, not neotinous necessarily, but people being like, oh, like he's, he's got the face of an angel and the body of a demon.

• 31:38Jonny?

  Wow.

• 31:38Speaker 01

  It's a very fabulous.

• 31:39Chris Williamson?

  That sounds like the sort of thing that you find in your message requests on Instagram, isn't it?

• 31:47Jonny?

  Okay, so because of that, that I get male attention.

• 31:51Speaker 01

  I think, I think, well, I'm speculating, like I.

• 31:54Chris Williamson?

  I think that you do, you, you've got some soft features.

• 31:57Jonny?

  Okay.

• 31:58Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, it's nice. It's kind of like the real case of Benjamin Button, but only from the neck up.

• 32:03Jonny?

  Okay, you're regressing. I'm like a little cherub.

• 32:06Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, you are. Can we try, strap you to a tree?

• 32:08Jonny?

  No, I, I would rather not.

• 32:09Speaker 01

  I was in a, I was in a gym in Kenton Park Leisure Centre, where there's cages around the security cameras.

• 32:15Jonny?

  Oh, I remember.

• 32:15Speaker 01

  And this man was a big guy telling us about his time in jail and his steroid use and stuff. And he looks over at Johnny and he goes, you're lovely and all. Johnny's like, uh, thank you.

• 32:26Jonny?

  I was like, fuck you.

• 32:27Speaker 01

  He's like, you know, you're just, you, you just said lovely. And Johnny's like.

• 32:30Jonny?

  I think he was being deeply facetious.

• 32:32Speaker 01

  Can we, can we go?

• 32:33Chris Williamson?

  If, if, if he wanted you.

• 32:35Jonny?

  He would have had.

• 32:35Chris Williamson?

  You were, you were his.

• 32:36Jonny?

  Yeah, I know.

• 32:37Chris Williamson?

  There and then.

• 32:38Jonny?

  There I was doing, uh.

• 32:39Speaker 01

  He was just rapping.

• 32:40Chris Williamson?

  Bent over rows.

• 32:41Jonny?

  Yeah. No, I was doing snatch. It's Kenton Gym.

• 32:45Chris Williamson?

  Doing snatch, doing snatch.

• 32:47Speaker 01

  With the small, thick metal.

• 32:49Jonny?

  With five kilo plates.

• 32:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:51Chris Williamson?

  So we've, we've done that.

• 32:53Jonny?

  We've sequed.

• 32:54Chris Williamson?

  A little, but we, I think, good point there. And then, you know, talking about that, the example about, uh, men, men on men. Men on men sex.

• 33:04Jonny?

  The best example of that, you were saying to me, Grindr has a location feature.

• 33:07Speaker 01

  Oh, but it's within meters. Like it's really.

• 33:10Jonny?

  Imagine if Tinder had a location feature.

• 33:12Chris Williamson?

  Well, find the woman that you've matched with.

• 33:13Jonny?

  Well, uh, but I think Grindr just has like a.

• 33:16Speaker 01

  It's, it's like a radar.

• 33:17Jonny?

  Like a dart.

• 33:18Speaker 01

  I mean, you play like Call of Duty or something. I, I like, it's like.

• 33:21Jonny?

  It tells you where everyone is.

• 33:23Speaker 01

  So is, um, so.

• 33:24Chris Williamson?

  Does that mean that men are predatory?

• 33:27Speaker 01

  I wonder if there's more instances of like a predation on in gay scenes than in like a

• 33:33Chris Williamson?

  Well, what happens if you think you're a predator and you turn up and you're you're a huge 160 bench guy from Kenton gyms there? And you're like, oh shit, this is more

• 33:42Jonny?

  Hunters being hunted.

• 33:43Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 33:45Jonny?

  But by that logic, you wouldn't mind being hunted.

• 33:48Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, fair enough. You're just there.

• 33:49Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, no, because you might be a bummer, but not a bummy. And so

• 33:52Jonny?

  That's the that's the dynamics and mechanics that I can't begin to understand.

• 33:56Chris Williamson?

  Completely.

• 33:58Speaker 01

  We need to have an articulate gay man to come in.

• 34:01Jonny?

  I would love to understand more about it.

• 34:03Chris Williamson?

  Me too. Like, how do you know?

• 34:05Jonny?

  Whether you're a bummy or a bumer.

• 34:06Chris Williamson?

  Well, no, I think you know, I think you know which one you are. But how do you know which one?

• 34:10Speaker 01

  I think it's you put it on your profile.

• 34:12Jonny?

  Do you?

• 34:12Chris Williamson?

  What? What's the metrics?

• 34:14Jonny?

  You're in a bar.

• 34:15Chris Williamson?

  What? Top or bottom?

• 34:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, you just put that on like

• 34:18Chris Williamson?

  On Grindr?

• 34:19Speaker 01

  Right, I I feel like I'm I'm just

• 34:21Chris Williamson?

  Why do you know so much about Grindr?

• 34:22Speaker 01

  I think it's because I got a profile for a while.

• 34:25Chris Williamson?

  Why did you get a profile?

• 34:27Speaker 01

  I was at a party and this guy was like, eh, you should get

• 34:29Jonny?

  We've hit the brotherhood here, Chris. Right.

• 34:31Chris Williamson?

  I don't mind. Exactly. Forget about dating.

• 34:34Speaker 01

  But we we have to get

• 34:35Chris Williamson?

  Well, this is still this is still dating.

• 34:36Jonny?

  It is. It's in the scene.

• 34:38Speaker 01

  We have to get a gay man that is happy to talk about the intricacies of

• 34:42Chris Williamson?

  I've got I've got I've got a couple that could be really, really good, actually.

• 34:45Jonny?

  Last two months.

• 34:45Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, that would be awesome. And then we can discover.

• 34:48Speaker 01

  Because I'm secondhand information here.

• 34:49Chris Williamson?

  This is completely ground for me, but Tom Ford, the fashion designer, has a theory that all straight men should be openly openly penetrated.

• 35:00Speaker 01

  It's quite a good justification for this, but he does have an agenda, doesn't he?

• 35:02Chris Williamson?

  That's the trouble.

• 35:03Speaker 01

  He wants to increase the pool of successful men receiving it.

• 35:05Jonny?

  That's why, if he was a straight man with that opinion, fair enough.

• 35:08Speaker 01

  It's the argument You would say that would be Tom.

• 35:11Jonny?

  Obviously.

• 35:12Chris Williamson?

  It's the argument that Bret Weinstein and Heather Haying say when they're talking about Sex at Dawn by Chris Ryan. So Chris Chris Ryan saying basically everyone anthropologically is built to be polyamorous is a really, really good way to just get women to sleep with you.

• 35:26Speaker 01

  I see. Oh, mate, it's free love, mate.

• 35:28Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, exactly. Right. If you just bend over. So, okay, so we've, you know, we've laid out a bit of a framework. What what are your what are your thoughts there?

• 35:36Speaker 01

  Well, so that that the that's what pick-up artistry is. And I suppose telling people to be polyamorous is trying to sideline and subvert this this existing system so that you can cash in on it. And pick-up artistry essentially is the same thing, but it's convincing someone for a short enough period that you are someone who you are not, maybe higher on on a dominance hierarchy that Is relevant to the, so usually like clubbing and that kind of thing.

• 36:00Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 36:00Speaker 01

  And.

• 36:02Chris Williamson?

  Hoping you catch up.

• 36:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, I sound like such an old clubbing and that sort of.

• 36:05Chris Williamson?

  You do disco.

• 36:07Speaker 01

  But so I've I've got friends who were really into pick up artistry for some time. And there's one guy, he's a German guy, like really good looking, like looks like a test tube baby like. And he was convinced that it was the pick up artistry, but I think it was just the fact that he's a good looking, confident guy. And it just, it just gave him things to say.

• 36:25Chris Williamson?

  I I think pick up artistry gets a terrible name because terrible name is in the name. Pick up artistry, it's trying to just pick up girls, right? The whole point is that it's not she's on the bedpost and this, that and the other. But you could look at pick up artistry from a whole number of other uh angles, right? Like what I've done over the last three years with the people that I've listened to and the things that I've read. Has made me a better potential partner unequivocally for any girl that I spend time with. And it's meant that m- my ability to um become in a relationship with women has also improved.

• 37:00Speaker 01

  As a result of what?

• 37:02Chris Williamson?

  Just understanding myself, doing introspective work.

• 37:04Speaker 01

  I see.

• 37:05Chris Williamson?

  All the rest is, so is that pick up artistry?

• 37:06Speaker 01

  Well, pick up artistry is not one thing, I suppose, and it's it's evolved over the years, like from from my friend Lenny, I'm sure he won't mind, like is. It was very algorithmic, it was very, and he was a computer scientist, so he's very like focused on.

• 37:18Chris Williamson?

  Inputs and outputs.

• 37:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, you you say this and then you you alpha the the toad and then you neg the whatever and you do the lemon. And it's like, this was all, it was all very formulaic. And he found that it made him quite depressed, uh in fact, it was it was him and someone else, but the the other guy I'm thinking of said that it made him feel very. Depressed because it created this disconnect between the person that he had to put across.

• 37:40Chris Williamson?

  Mm hmm.

• 37:40Speaker 01

  To be attractive to women.

• 37:42Chris Williamson?

  Mm hmm.

• 37:43Speaker 01

  And the person who he really was.

• 37:44Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, it's like being able to lift on performance enhancing drugs.

• 37:48Speaker 01

  And then coming off and being like.

• 37:49Chris Williamson?

  Ah shit, I'm still really, really weak, whereas what I've done is I've done a strength protocol naturally. And brought my brought my strength up to a a level where I feel. More capable. Um. Do you know what I mean? Mark Manson's book called Models, which is fantastic. So it comes under that bracket, but it's very different, isn't it? Well, it's more about. Authenticity, vulnerability. So he talks about diet, diet training, he talks about um like stop masturbating and go out and meet, like use that energy to go out and meet people. Um hum. Gives, his argument is that guys don't have a model, hence the name, to interact with women. And so they try all this pick up after stuff and forget that actually like you have to be a valuable, desirable thing. Um hum. And this isn't to say, this isn't to say that women aren't either. Of course.

• 38:33Chris Williamson?

  Women, women also need to add value. Um. But again, for this. I think, I think, I think women naturally put a lot more care in their appearance and and and that side of things. I would, I would, I would go as far as to say that I think women on the whole are more virtuous than men. When it comes to relationships, that may be a controversial thing to say, but I do think that it's the truth, especially at the younger age brackets. Um. I think they put in more effort overall, like from that. Um. How many, how many girls do you know that have cheated on men versus men that have cheated on girls? Cause I know it at a two to one or a three to one ratio going men to women. Do you think the motivations are different between why men cheat and why women cheat? Yeah.

• 39:15Chris Williamson?

  So, yeah, I can't remember who it was, some relationships guy saying men cheat because they want sex or they want variety. Um hum. Women cheat because they feel it not attended to enough. So here we, here we go. Have you heard me use the Family Guy analogy before? Oh, yeah. This is my favorite analogy that I use for dating. There's a lot of uh wisdom in that, isn't there? Fucking love this. The writers are clearly quite smart guys. So, anyone who's watched Family Guy before, Peter is stood at the window watching Bonnie, who's Joe's wife, out of the window. And he's got binoculars and he's looking at her, getting changed out of the window and he's making like under his voice going like she's really hot and sort of making man noises. And then Stewie comes in, he walks along to the side and he goes, what are you doing, fat man? Looks at him.

• 39:58Chris Williamson?

  He goes, looks out to the window and he sees Bonnie getting changed and he goes, I don't understand, you've got this smoking hot wife at home, why would you be looking at, oh, I see, it doesn't need to be better, it just needs to be different.

• 40:13Chris Williamson?

  And the value of novelty in a relationship of something new cannot be understated.

• 40:20Jonny?

  Biochemically speaking as well, like it's.

• 40:22Chris Williamson?

  We can get on to that as well, the genetic lottery, as it's called.

• 40:27Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 40:27Chris Williamson?

  But the value of novelty can't be understated, it doesn't need to be better. It just needs to be different. And I think that so much cheating from men can be explained by that. So another.

• 40:39Jonny?

  It's hyperbolic discounting.

• 40:42Chris Williamson?

  I don't know what that is.

• 40:43Jonny?

  So it's, so cheating is the reason that people cheat, from my perspective, from like a behavioural perspective is,

• 40:52Jonny?

  it's failure to see the, the power and the value of a long-term outcome, long-term cost or benefit. And not being able to discount that appropriately with a short term.

• 41:02Chris Williamson?

  Short term positive for long term.

• 41:03Jonny?

  But also, I think like, especially guys, the number of the guys who I know who've like cheated and like have even thought about cheating and then cheated. It's the, it's the narrative of they are better, different, more interesting, funnier, more attractive, whatever. But I just think there's a fixed trajectory that relationships take. And it's just starting that process again. Like month one, month two, great.

• 41:27Chris Williamson?

  So there's so much, there's so much stuff that we can go into here. I'm gonna let you do the bit about the genetic lottery. Do you know that? Do you know the Brett Weinstein and Heather Hing thing about?

• 41:37Speaker 01

  I've not seen that.

• 41:38Chris Williamson?

  Okay, right, well, I can, I'll be able to lead you into it anyway.

• 41:39Speaker 01

  I was gonna talk about the, the, the dopamine allergic sensitivity.

• 41:42Chris Williamson?

  Yes, cool. So, but before that,

• 41:47Chris Williamson?

  I was on Love Island, right? And we, apparently I was, and a hundred thousand people have seen the podcast.

• 41:54Jonny?

  Good.

• 41:55Chris Williamson?

  Um, link will be.

• 41:57Jonny?

  I think it was too.

• 41:57Chris Williamson?

  Or here, video guiding.

• 41:59Jonny?

  I think it was too long, to be honest.

• 42:00Chris Williamson?

  Wow, you know.

• 42:01Jonny?

  What else do I think?

• 42:01Chris Williamson?

  Five percent, five percent of people that commented said the same.

• 42:04Jonny?

  I think it was really surprising to hear that you were intelligent, Chris.

• 42:08Chris Williamson?

  And I think it was.

• 42:09Speaker 01

  I think it made me.

• 42:10Chris Williamson?

  I think that I I think that I want to know what gear that guy that's close to the camera is on.

• 42:14Speaker 01

  Why is he so big?

• 42:15Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, that guy's that guy's full of D ball and water. D ball and water.

• 42:20Speaker 01

  It's a fish eye lens, wasn't it?

• 42:21Chris Williamson?

  D ball and water. Well, yeah, that's exactly the that's exactly. So I'm on I'm on I'm on Love Island with this guy and I'm not going to say who it is. And he'd recently split up with his girlfriend after cheating on her a number of times. And he said this sentence to me. So the the two frameworks that have borne so much of my understanding about relationships are it doesn't need to be better, it just needs to be different. And then this interaction that I had with someone on Love Island. Been with this girl for maybe two or three years, kept on cheating on her. Kept on cheating on her, kept on cheating on her and couldn't stop for some reason. You go and get drunk. So, okay, like, rule number one, don't get drunk. Like, I'm a pariah.

• 42:57Chris Williamson?

  Paragon. I'm a paragon of sobriety.

• 42:59Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 43:00Chris Williamson?

  And so that's easy for me to say, right? But if you keep on fucking cheating on your girlfriend when you get drunk, stop cheating on her. By stopping getting drunk, all right?

• 43:08Speaker 01

  If that's the trigger, then, yeah, you've got.

• 43:10Chris Williamson?

  Fuck me. Put your hand in the fire, it hurts. Yeah, stop putting your hand in the fire. Exactly. And he said this sentence to me. And he was saying, do you know what it is? I loved it a bit.

• 43:22Chris Williamson?

  And then attacked by a fly.

• 43:23Speaker 01

  And then you were like.

• 43:24Chris Williamson?

  I couldn't I couldn't have happened at a bad moment.

• 43:26Speaker 01

  I know.

• 43:27Chris Williamson?

  I loved it a bit.

• 43:30Speaker 01

  And I called I called the NHS helpline. It seems to be having.

• 43:34Chris Williamson?

  Got these floaters in my eye. It's like I've used the stroke framework. I loved it a bit. But I just can't keep my dick in my pants. I wouldn't be saying this. I loved it a bit, but I just can't keep my dick in my pants. Between it doesn't need to be better, it just needs to be different. And I loved it a bit, but I can't keep my dick in my pants. You have the framework, as far as I'm concerned.

• 43:55Speaker 01

  So he's not unhappy in his relationship?

• 43:57Chris Williamson?

  He just is unable to counteract his urges to a degree. And you think, okay, so what does that say? He was at the time twenty four, twenty five, something like that.

• 44:08Speaker 01

  Willie.

• 44:08Chris Williamson?

  Yeah. Yeah, he's Willie.

• 44:10Speaker 01

  Who is? When when did Willie come?

• 44:16Chris Williamson?

  With that.

• 44:17Speaker 01

  Willie coming?

• 44:18Chris Williamson?

  With that, um.

• 44:23Chris Williamson?

  Wait until he's older.

• 44:25Speaker 01

  So that just matured.

• 44:26Chris Williamson?

  Wait until he's matured and just take it on the chin.

• 44:28Speaker 01

  The sexual drive drops.

• 44:29Chris Williamson?

  That particular, that that particular person needs to make some mistakes, right? And as a girl, we're going back to being as a girl, and as a guy as well. As a girl, the implication is allow him to make mistakes, but not with you.

• 44:43Chris Williamson?

  As a guy. Allow yourself to spread your royal seed as much as you want. But don't put yourself through the emotional turmoil of thinking that you can be in a long term relationship with a girl.

• 44:56Speaker 01

  If you just demonstrate that you can't repeatedly.

• 44:58Chris Williamson?

  Yeah. What does the evidence suggest? The evidence suggests that I love this girl to bits. But I can't stop shagging other girls. Okay, so stop doing the bit that. Allow, allow yourself to, yeah, allow yourself to enact, Johnny, fire.

• 45:11Jonny?

  I have a question. So I think where that breaks down is it's. I don't know what that was, I thought.

• 45:21Jonny?

  It implies that, because we're getting into monogamy here, aren't we?

• 45:25Chris Williamson?

  To agree.

• 45:25Jonny?

  Whether that's possible.

• 45:26Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 45:27Jonny?

  I think probably, and I don't know, this is a wild punt, but I would imagine the highest.

• 45:35Jonny?

  Percentage of cheating happens in relationships where people have been, people are in their 40s to 50s. Been married a while, the spark has completely gone from a relationship. And that's when a lot of it happening. And I think like.

• 45:50Speaker 01

  I don't know. There's a big breakdown of stats around cheating. I've completely, I'll have to find it.

• 45:54Chris Williamson?

  I can't believe you don't.

• 45:55Speaker 01

  We'll link it, we'll link mine.

• 45:56Chris Williamson?

  Oh, in fact.

• 45:57Jonny?

  Is it on the My Palace?

• 45:58Chris Williamson?

  Video guy Dean. Will make sure.

• 46:00Jonny?

  What about Dean?

• 46:01Chris Williamson?

  That we will have those stats floating on the screen.

• 46:04Jonny?

  So these, so these stats.

• 46:06Chris Williamson?

  Right here.

• 46:07Speaker 01

  It's these stats talk about.

• 46:09Jonny?

  These ones or those ones?

• 46:10Speaker 01

  Um, higher incidence of cheating with attractive couples, which kind of makes sense, I guess, but.

• 46:16Chris Williamson?

  Because they've got better access.

• 46:18Speaker 01

  Maybe that's it, or maybe they feel more desirable. I think there's also the, there's a, it's an immature game that some, some women play and presumably some men as well. And I'm sure you've, you have seen women that do.

• 46:28Jonny?

  This sounds like you've been on the sharp end or something.

• 46:31Speaker 01

  No, I, I, it hasn't, it hasn't happened to me.

• 46:33Jonny?

  Really popping out of line.

• 46:34Speaker 01

  Actually, no, it has, it has happened to me. But um, yeah, so women who will deliberately look for men who are in a relationship. And just try and pursue them, almost as a sense of like.

• 46:44Chris Williamson?

  Accomplishment.

• 46:44Speaker 01

  Just, yeah, just to know that they can. I was once in a club. And this girl came up to me and started being like really forthcoming with me, like straight, like straight away. I'm like, okay.

• 46:54Chris Williamson?

  I would have loved to have seen this.

• 46:56Speaker 01

  Help, help my eyes out. Come with me, come upstairs. Came upstairs, like basically dragging me up.

• 47:01Chris Williamson?

  First touch, pick up a spray.

• 47:03Speaker 01

  Okay, and uh, she, and then she came up to her boyfriend and it was like, she was clearly just trying to make him jealous with the first guy that she saw. I was like.

• 47:12Chris Williamson?

  I'm gonna get punched again by a Nazi.

• 47:14Jonny?

  Should have signed him up to the propane protocol.

• 47:15Speaker 01

  Excuse me.

• 47:16Jonny?

  Wouldn't have happened, would it?

• 47:17Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 47:17Speaker 01

  Well, he wouldn't have signed up.

• 47:18Chris Williamson?

  If he had, if he had a one sixty bench, she wouldn't have looked down.

• 47:20Jonny?

  She, she would never have gone to find you if he'd been on the propane protocol.

• 47:23Speaker 01

  Uh, okay.

• 47:24Chris Williamson?

  propanefitness.com forward slash.

• 47:26Jonny?

  Just propaneprotocol.com.

• 47:28Chris Williamson?

  Propanprotocol.com, there we go.

• 47:29Speaker 01

  Just bought the domain.

• 47:30Chris Williamson?

  Dean, Dean. Somewhere. So. Um, moving on to the, we've segwayed here, but I like.

• 47:38Jonny?

  Did we do that bit? I feel like we were doing a bit.

• 47:41Chris Williamson?

  We're doing, we're gonna move on to the monogamy thing, but this is gonna be evolutionary basis for monogamy.

• 47:46Speaker 01

  Cool.

• 47:46Chris Williamson?

  So anyone who's read Sex at Dawn by Chris Ryan.

• 47:48Jonny?

  I've not.

• 47:49Chris Williamson?

  Okay, so on Netflix.

• 47:50Jonny?

  Aubrey Marcus recommendation, right?

• 47:52Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, well Aubrey Marcus said the first time that he touched another woman that wasn't his wife, he was physically sick.

• 47:57Jonny?

  And the first time his wife brought someone else home, he was physically sick.

• 48:00Speaker 01

  He said, he always said.

• 48:01Jonny?

  Like, sounds great, Aubrey.

• 48:02Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, great, mate, thank you. Seize, seize, seize that day, mate. But get the bucket first.

• 48:07Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 48:07Speaker 01

  It was the thing, he was like, I was on all fours, dry retching for, for weeks. And then I broke through the barrier and actually now it's really rewarding, all right? And you're like, oh, okay, cool.

• 48:15Chris Williamson?

  Sounds fucking great, Aubrey. You know where he is at the moment? He's in the middle of the, he's in Peru. Having.

• 48:21Jonny?

  Drink green smoothies.

• 48:22Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, drinking green smoothies over and over again. So.

• 48:27Chris Williamson?

  Anthropological basis for monogamy. There's, to preface this, there is, I think it's called Explained on Netflix, and it is a series of 10 to 15 minute videos on a variety of subjects. There's one on K-pop, there's one on something else, and there's one on monogamy. Right, Chris Ryan's on that. And if you want to find out a little bit more about why he believes there is a tenuous evolutionary basis for humans being monogamous, watch that. Or read his book Sex at Dawn, or listen to Brett Weinstein and Heather Haying on Joe Rogan. And they do a really lovely little breakdown of that book.

• 49:11Jonny?

  Cool. Not the Chris Ryan, who's like the Geordie SAS guy who was with Andy McNab, different ones.

• 49:16Speaker 01

  Just on Radio 1.

• 49:17Jonny?

  That's, that's Chris Moyles?

• 49:19Speaker 01

  Chris Moyles.

• 49:21Chris Williamson?

  Pop culture is lacking in this realm.

• 49:24Speaker 01

  I mentioned Netflix yesterday on the podcast and I was really proud. I was like, I watched a series on Netflix the other day.

• 49:31Jonny?

  Because you go from it, you get it.

• 49:32Speaker 01

  Yeah. So this is a TED Talk, again, there's so many resources, but it's called, I think it's called Your Brain on Porn, or it's something about that. There's a psychiatrist talking about an increase or an influx of young men with a reptile dysfunction, usually comorbid with depression, anxiety, those kind of things. And he thinks it's because of the increase in internet porn. And he says that this is based on a rat study, where they took a male rat, introduced a female rat, measured its arousal response by like penal circumference, and measured how that changed over time. Over time, it rose above baseline, and then it became slowly desensitized to the female rat.

• 50:16Speaker 01

  Introduced a new female rat, and it went above baseline.

• 50:19Chris Williamson?

  Doesn't need to be better.

• 50:20Speaker 01

  Yep, it was just different. They kept doing that, and it kept going above baseline, but less and less, until it became tolerant to the novelty of the stimulus. And eventually it went below baseline, and so it wasn't able to attain the same level of arousal that it did first time. And he says that we're doing this on a mass basis where... We have unfettered access to a far greater rate of sexual novelty than you normally would in general human interaction.

• 50:49Jonny?

  Hmm.

• 50:49Speaker 01

  And the rate rate of porn being produced far outpaces the rate that you could watch it even on double speed.

• 50:54Jonny?

  I love I love that. When you said that, you're like, no one could keep up with the amount of porn on the internet. Like, when you think about that, it's really true.

• 51:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:01Chris Williamson?

  Did we ever do that podcast where I cited loads of Pornhub stats? I think I did.

• 51:05Speaker 01

  It's a great stats.

• 51:07Jonny?

  They produce that, don't they?

• 51:08Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 51:09Jonny?

  You know why?

• 51:09Speaker 01

  They're a really clever company.

• 51:10Jonny?

  Why I think they do that? You can't market it, can you? Can't advertise porn.

• 51:14Speaker 01

  People just organic shares, isn't it?

• 51:15Jonny?

  You produce that and people start telling their mates about it.

• 51:18Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 51:19Jonny?

  It's the only thing I can think of.

• 51:20Chris Williamson?

  Well, that's the thing. You don't ever, I've never been online and someone's sent me a link and been like.

• 51:26Jonny?

  What's this? What's this?

• 51:27Chris Williamson?

  Mate, Xhamster.com forward slash vid slash.

• 51:32Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 51:33Chris Williamson?

  So.

• 51:33Speaker 01

  It's like.

• 51:33Chris Williamson?

  Uh, uh, uh, okay. Have you got any more to add to that?

• 51:36Speaker 01

  So that, so he, he says that what happens there is that this, um, we reset our baseline sensitivity to sexual stimulus, but also to general reward. And the porn addiction doesn't necessarily even come out of, um, wanting like out of sexual drive anymore. It comes out of like just wanting some kind of emotional excitement and something to do.

• 51:57Jonny?

  Connection.

• 51:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, it could be connection, it could be like, and, and so people start watching weirder and weirder like.

• 52:03Chris Williamson?

  It's like, have you seen Randy in South Park where he starts out like he doesn't get any porn for ages? And then he starts with like Brazilian fart porn.

• 52:12Speaker 01

  First thing goes in.

• 52:13Jonny?

  There's one where, where, um, Peter tells Quagmire about porn.

• 52:16Chris Williamson?

  And then he comes out and he's got.

• 52:17Jonny?

  It's Matta four on Chris style. Yeah.

• 52:21Chris Williamson?

  Um, so, um, to move on.

• 52:23Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 52:24Chris Williamson?

  For men.

• 52:25Jonny?

  You can get porn on the internet?

• 52:26Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 52:26Jonny?

  No, you can't, Quagmire.

• 52:28Chris Williamson?

  So here's, here's one of the things that I wanted to move on to in this. Um, one of the problems is you may be able to jump in and actually provide a framework for men that they can lay down for women. As I have done women for men, I haven't been able to and I haven't got it in my head. What I do have is a bit of advice for men who want to date. And I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this.

• 52:50Jonny?

  Okay.

• 52:51Chris Williamson?

  So.

• 52:54Chris Williamson?

  Men who are um outside of the norm, let's say that there's a bell curve distribution of people who are normal and by normal that is similar interests, similar mindset, similar everything. Like nine to five job, like football. Everything, yeah, whatever it might be, wherever the median falls, wherever the median falls, they are closer to that. Yep. By its very definition, the deeper that you are as a person, the more contrary, subtle or alarming your views are going to be society at large. I love the idea of an alarming view. Yeah, you're right, you're right. And given the choice between acceptability and honesty, most of us usually would choose the former.

• 53:39Chris Williamson?

  Hmm. Okay.

• 53:41Speaker 01

  Very Alan de Button.

• 53:44Chris Williamson?

  What's that?

• 53:45Speaker 01

  That's how you pronounce his name.

• 53:46Chris Williamson?

  Alan de Button. Alan de Button. Do you know why that is? Because it's a direct quote from Why We Are Born to be Lonely. You said it so quickly.

• 53:53Speaker 01

  Alan de Button.

• 53:54Chris Williamson?

  Very Alan de Button. So the video that I'm citing here is one called Why We Are Fated to be Lonely by School of Life. It's six minutes long and I must have watched it about a hundred times. I'll make sure it's linked in the show notes, but I cannot advise anyone who's a person of depth to watch anything more. It completely reframed my thoughts on this. And this is for advice for guys who perhaps don't fit into what would be a typical category. And if you are someone who's a little bit of an enigma to one degree or another, that it doesn't fit into the archetypal role. For instance, is a good example is what I always talk about with yourself, like. Topknot. Well, yeah, that's why the topknot works, okay? Because clean coat, often wear navy, but oh my God, he's got a topknot. Oh my God, he can deadlift three hundred and ten kilos. Why is he a chartered accountant?

• 54:39Chris Williamson?

  Why does he run his own business? Do you know what I mean? Yeah. That enigma is what makes things interesting. I think even without the topknot, a lot of people feel confused. You know, the same for all of us to one degree or another. And I think that's why we all get on. I think mainly scum. It's mostly you are the outlier. You are an outlier amongst outliers. And so, and here's my thing, right? So. What he says is that a certain degree of loneliness is a kind of tax that we have to pay to atone for a certain complexity of mind. That makes sense? What this means is it can lead to, especially men that have got a particular level of depth, to actually struggle dating, finding connections with other people.

• 55:24Chris Williamson?

  And what I want this particular section of the podcast to do is to not only champion that kind of an approach for men to further themselves in life and in dating and in a bunch of other things, but also to get them to really dig their heels into what they, what they believe in and who they are.

• 55:39Speaker 01

  I think it's important to first distinguish whether, if you listen to this, you're like, you, that you're not just like, oh, yeah, the reason I can't get any female attention is just because I'm such an enigma and I'm just so deep, man.

• 55:49Chris Williamson?

  What you don't understand here is like, I just, I've got these thoughts and they go around in my head, like, yes.

• 55:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's, it's like making the distinction and having, being objective enough to say, is it because of that that I'm unable to find a mate? Or is it, I wish I could find that quote because it put it so well.

• 56:06Chris Williamson?

  It's like, I can't parallel park. Um, my, my T-shirts are always dirty. I haven't got a job and I'm single and I've got no idea why.

• 56:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:15Chris Williamson?

  Okay, so like, clean, clean the, clean your room, right?

• 56:18Speaker 01

  Do the basics.

• 56:18Chris Williamson?

  Basic stuff. Get rid of the low hanging fruit, okay?

• 56:20Speaker 01

  Lead models by Mark Manson and it's got all the low hanging fruit.

• 56:23Chris Williamson?

  That is Bible for shit like this.

• 56:25Speaker 01

  Okay, cool.

• 56:25Chris Williamson?

  Well, it's a shame I haven't read it, but.

• 56:27Speaker 01

  It's so, there's just, there's no tactics or anything. It's literally just get.

• 56:30Chris Williamson?

  I don't think you'd be surprised.

• 56:31Speaker 01

  Be the best version of yourself.

• 56:32Chris Williamson?

  You wouldn't be surprised by anything in it. Cool. It's just. You know what? Do you know what? You might know this. Do you know what namaste means?

• 56:38Speaker 01

  I recognize the, uh, the infinite within you.

• 56:41Chris Williamson?

  The best in me and the best in you.

• 56:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, people water it down to me now because it's like, it sounds less like, yeah.

• 56:47Chris Williamson?

  Okay, well, the infinite.

• 56:48Speaker 01

  Well, the divine within, yeah.

• 56:50Chris Williamson?

  Okay, so my, my point here is that a number of men may.

• 56:58Chris Williamson?

  When given the opportunity between honesty and acceptability, a number of women as well, but I can only speak from my personal experience, right? But this applies to women as much as it does to men. They have the choice between honesty and acceptability. And if your honesty results in catastrophic body odor or racial slurs, every other word, or do you know what I mean? Like you need to, there needs to be some sort of mediating here. But for the most part, what I'm talking about is someone who's maybe got a particular, an alternative worldview or thinks about,

• 57:34Chris Williamson?

  tries to distill concepts down in their mind or has a very active mind, or maybe suffers with depressive thoughts or suffers with whatever it might be. That I'm talking from personal experience here and you can rate this down by, you know, there's certain elements of my character and I don't want this to sound like I'm proclaiming that, like showcasing myself. But I know as an absolute fact that there will be less women overall that are interested in you. Your total area under the curve will be less as a man in terms of finding a mate. Okay?

• 58:10Chris Williamson?

  Being this particular level of depth. But I promise you, and this is to every man that's listening or watching, out there, you will, total area under the curve, you may suffer unless you pull your acceptability, your honesty back in. However, every so often, you are going to strike a girl that no one else can get. I promise that that's the way that it works. That you will get to the stage where a girl that you never, ever thought would be interested in you, or a friend that you never, ever thought, or an opportunity that you never thought that you would get, this works across a whole number of, and the same for girls as well. And the reason for that is that you're, you are the equivalent of a business that's servicing a niche market.

• 58:56Chris Williamson?

  And this market is completely, completely untapped. And what they're doing is they're making do with other businesses that kind of get close to what they need. Sit like a similar solution, but not quite. It's not quite what they want. And every so often, this person is going to find in you this unique blend of very, very

• 59:17Chris Williamson?

  enigmatic, different values.

• 59:21Speaker 01

  That they're not going to be able to replicate from someone.

• 59:23Chris Williamson?

  You have got, you have got absolutely not. And this is the beauty. This is one of the things I was having a discussion quite recently with someone about this.

• 59:31Chris Williamson?

  Again, guys that have got this particular level of depth.

• 59:35Chris Williamson?

  A lot of the time, because we are presented the best of everyone else's lives, but yet we see the worst of our own. And this is in normal discourse. No one ever say, you don't say, how's your day going? And you go, oh mate, it's fucking shit. Actually, I woke up really depressed. It's the candor is you're just doing it. It's a greeting, right? It's the same as saying hello.

• 59:51Speaker 01

  We need to do a podcast on honesty because it's such a.

• 59:53Chris Williamson?

  It's a, it's a core tenet of what I'm talking about. A lot of the time, integrity, virtue, honesty, be true to yourself, try not to lie as much as possible, et cetera, et cetera. So I'm talking to this guy and I'm saying, look, I'm aware that you get to see your own blunders from the, the front, a front row seat, right? You see it every single second of the day and you only get to see the this much, the highlight reel of everybody else's. Let's flip that on its head, right? What you have as a man or as a woman who sees their own depth is this really colorful world where you have so much depth, so much variety of views. And that means that you and only you can be you.

• 1:00:38Chris Williamson?

  But when you see the highlight reel of everyone else who are choosing acceptability instead of honesty, what do you see there? All you see is cookie cutter design that's just replicated and replicated and replicated over and over. So take that as your power, like that as someone who, a, a, a person who has a particular degree of depth is where you can draw an awful lot of power from, that you go, well, hang on a second. Yeah, cool. This person I thought was really good for me, or was this, that and the other. And then maybe it's worked out or maybe it's not. And I'm a little bit hurt or whatever. And I thought that there were, there were this girl that I never thought this guy that I thought I'd never get to be with. And I really, really value them. But you go, I see on Instagram and Facebook or on a night out or at work, I see fucking millions of people like them.

• 1:01:21Chris Williamson?

  But I know through personal experience that there's only one of me. I think that's a really liberating thing to think.

• 1:01:28Speaker 01

  Really well put as well.

• 1:01:30Chris Williamson?

  Well, this has been something that I've been that's been percolating around for a little while and I've been trying to distill it down.

• 1:01:35Jonny?

  I think it's very that that distinction is probably more prevalent in your world. In the sense in in the world that it that exists in the nightlife of Newcastle. Then I think I feel exposed to.

• 1:01:51Speaker 01

  So maybe I think with it's an interesting one with Chris because um. Over the last five, six years, at least since we've known him, what just.

• 1:02:03Jonny?

  No, I'm not gonna say.

• 1:02:04Speaker 01

  Okay. That we've we've we've seen you on this path of of becoming more authentic, becoming more comfortable with your own. Uh with your own values that you didn't feel were acceptable and becoming more upfront with that. The problem that confines this is that you haven't gone down in acceptability because.

• 1:02:27Speaker 01

  Deep down, like you're you're a decent person, you're not, you know, you said like if your honesty is racial slurs and and being a prick and then you're actually. Trying to be more acceptable by coating over that, then that's a different thing, but you've revealed someone who is is fundamentally a good guy. And the authenticity in itself is an attractive trait. Plus, you are placed in a dominance hierarchy quite high up.

• 1:02:52Chris Williamson?

  That's that's that's what I that's what I wanted to try and.

• 1:02:55Speaker 01

  And so so all of these factors plus like you're a beautiful man, so um.

• 1:03:00Chris Williamson?

  Thank you.

• 1:03:00Speaker 01

  All these things together.

• 1:03:01Chris Williamson?

  Want to go into the bedroom?

• 1:03:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, let's let's do it. And so so so the problem is like you you maybe had like you haven't taken the hit on acceptability. By becoming more honest because you had the other fundamentals in place.

• 1:03:13Chris Williamson?

  Agreed, but it's also still, I would still say to today, like my typical access and I get to see the best cross section. Of potential partners, right? And this works for men and for women, I think equally. A night out is a pretty good idea because it's a pretty ubiquitous environment for people to be in. Not everyone works at KPMG, not everyone goes to the gym, but almost everybody goes on nights out at some point.

• 1:03:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:38Chris Williamson?

  Even if it's once a year, twice a year, once a week.

• 1:03:40Jonny?

  Very good cross section.

• 1:03:42Chris Williamson?

  Representative sample.

• 1:03:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:43Chris Williamson?

  And I know for a fact that I'm.

• 1:03:48Chris Williamson?

  My access or my um.

• 1:03:51Speaker 01

  I imagine it'll have changed the access on the end ranges of the bell curve. Probably hasn't made much difference to the center of the bell curve.

• 1:03:57Chris Williamson?

  Still, still, still can't relate to the vast majority of people in the middle.

• 1:04:00Speaker 01

  Like you, I, I'd imagine you, you might sleep with a lot of them because they, because there's no um, there's no nuance in that interaction. And so there's not a chance for that to be

• 1:04:11Speaker 01

  picked up on. But then, yeah, your, your access and the depth of, or to the, the people who are the outliers probably.

• 1:04:18Chris Williamson?

  But remember, so, and here's, here's the, the crux of the story. And this is for men and for women, right? I want this particular element to read as a little bit of a champion for romance to a degree. We're not talking here about like how to shag as many people as possible. And, you know, there's strategies behind that as well. Like, you know, there's an entire culture for both men and women of pick apart history. Um, but this is more about champion for romance, right? And for whoever you are, you only really need, you don't need to perform well in the league games in the middle of October. You only need to win the cup final once or twice.

• 1:04:59Chris Williamson?

  Because as long as you're able to do that and get that partner that you really, really fucking desire and that makes you feel whole. You only need to get that once or twice and not fuck it. And that's you set for life. It's not about, like, no one remembers the guy that came fifty-third in the world at, in the CrossFit Open, but they remember the guy that won. And it's exactly the same as that. You only need to win. And by getting that, but by um using your deepness and your uniqueness as a virtue and taking a lot of power from that, taking your power from that. It allows you to access these people as potential partners

• 1:05:44Chris Williamson?

  that you never would have done had you have pushed yourself right into the middle of the bell curve. Not only have you lied about who you are, so that you're never going to have a real connection with this person. And you're then potentially trapped in this prison of pretending to be this person for the rest of your life, which you never were. So your level of depth of connection at the beginning and for all eternity until you die or break up with them is, is locked into this like semi truthful approach. You also get to.

• 1:06:13Jonny?

  You get to have a partner that you feel proud of because they love you for you.

• 1:06:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's an advantage overall and like I, I think in that sense, you, you maybe don't need to take the hit on acceptability in any, in any case. Like, yeah, it, it only opens up options. It doesn't close them off. And the more you understand yourself, the more you can be authentic in a relationship and the more you can give in that as well.

• 1:06:38Jonny?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:06:39Speaker 01

  So.

• 1:06:40Jonny?

  The next question is, how do you know that the partner's the right partner?

• 1:06:45Speaker 01

  Uh, do you, did you want to do one on the log of me as well?

• 1:06:47Jonny?

  Got an entire framework for it.

• 1:06:49Speaker 01

  Who did?

• 1:06:49Jonny?

  But that's what those notes are.

• 1:06:51Speaker 01

  Cause I, I was gonna say, can we, can we get on to these, uh?

• 1:06:54Jonny?

  It's a very big, it's a very different path.

• 1:06:57Chris Williamson?

  Well, I think that we can probably close this one there.

• 1:07:01Jonny?

  Okay.

• 1:07:02Chris Williamson?

  I think that we can draw a line under this podcast. And I'd said before we started this one, I wanted this one to be as close to serious as we can do.

• 1:07:09Jonny?

  Hmm.

• 1:07:09Chris Williamson?

  We're about to roll into a Q and A, which is definitely not going to be serious.

• 1:07:12Jonny?

  Absolutely.

• 1:07:13Chris Williamson?

  Video guiding, I have, um.

• 1:07:15Jonny?

  I do.

• 1:07:16Chris Williamson?

  I've run out of battery on the G seven X.

• 1:07:18Jonny?

  Oh no.

• 1:07:19Chris Williamson?

  FYI, we can get around about bang on an hour of three 20 minute videos in there. So if you're listening, please subscribe to the Modern Wisdom YouTube channel. We will be coming back at some point soon when we've got fresh cognitive capacity.

• 1:07:35Jonny?

  Hmm.

• 1:07:36Chris Williamson?

  And we will be doing.

• 1:07:38Jonny?

  So it's whether to decide to get in a relationship or not. How to decide who to be in a relationship with. And then some principles to, to see if that person's a viable long-term partner.

• 1:07:51Speaker 01

  Everything from what we've discussed forward.

• 1:07:54Jonny?

  Onward.

• 1:07:55Chris Williamson?

  I think that's really cool.

• 1:07:56Jonny?

  Hmm.

• 1:07:56Chris Williamson?

  I've enjoyed today. That's been awesome. Don't forget to subscribe. Please make sure that you follow Proper Fitness, at Proper Fitness on everything online, at Chris Will X on Twitter, all the rest of the stuff. Um.

• 1:08:06Speaker 01

  You're not, you're not gonna add the text and it's gonna leave me a little.

• 1:08:08Jonny?

  Are you okay?

• 1:08:09Speaker 01

  See, this is.

• 1:08:11Chris Williamson?

  You're having a bit, aren't you?

• 1:08:12Jonny?

  You look like you're trying to land a plane.

• 1:08:13Chris Williamson?

  Yeah. Okay. Okay, bye then.

• 1:08:16Jonny?

  Okay, bye then.