Russia vs Ukraine, JFK Assassination, Trump vs Deep State w/ Oliver & Sean Stone | PBD Podcast | Ep. 522

Patrick Bet-David sits down with Oliver and Sean Stone!📺 WATCH "ALL THE PRESIDENTS MEN" - https://bit.ly/3ZIQPrD📕OLIVER'S BOOK "THE CONCISE UNTOLD STORY OF THE UNITED STATES": https://amzn.to/4glyDv9💳 VT GIFTCARDS: https://bit.ly/3P28SnM🎄 VT CHRISTMAS COLLECTION: https://bit.ly/4gk4yff🧥THE NEW VT SWEATSHIRTS & HOODIES: https://bit.ly/4f5fnAM🧢 PURCHASE THE NEW VT HATS: https://bit.ly/3ZFAPrH📕 PBD'S BOOK "THE ACADEMY": https://bit.ly/41rtEV4📰 VTNEWS. AI: ⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/3OExClZ🎙️ FOLLOW THE PODCAST ON SPOTIFY: ⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4g57zR2🎙️ FOLLOW THE PODCAST ON ITUNES: ⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4g1bXAh🎙️ FOLLOW THE PODCAST ON ALL PLATFORMS: https://bit.ly/4eXQl6A📱 CONNECT ON MINNECT: ⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4ikyEkC👔 BET-DAVID CONSULTING: ⁠⁠https://bit.ly/3ZjWhB7🎓 VALUETAINMENT UNIVERSITY: ⁠⁠https://bit.ly/3BfA5Qw📺 JOIN THE CHANNEL: ⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4g5C6Or💬 TEXT US: Text “PODCAST” to 310-340-1132 to get the latest updates in real-time! SUBSCRIBE TO:@VALUETAINMENT https://studio.youtube.com/channel/UCIHdDJ0tjn_3j-FS7s_X1kQ @ValuetainmentComedy https://studio.youtube.com/channel/UCBhk5IGscWGP53VhaOs8Apg @theunusualsuspectspodcast https://studio.youtube.com/channel/UCRfOITLq16t0i-GwDNst_TA @bizdocpodcast https://studio.youtube.com/channel/UCBwd-LqxhLOL4rUr3kPW3TA ABOUT US:Patrick Bet-David is the founder and CEO of Valuetainment Media. He is the author of the #1 Wall Street Journal Bestseller “Your Next Five Moves” (Simon & Schuster) and a father of 2 boys and 2 girls. He currently resides in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  Winner is?

• 0:02Speaker 01

  The Oscar goes to?

• 0:03Speaker 00

  Oliver Stone! Oliver Stone for Midnight Express.

• 0:07Speaker 01

  Oliver Stone, born on the 4th of July. Please welcome Oliver Stone.

• 0:13Speaker 02

  I went into arms as a soldier eventually in 67, 8. And I saw things that just shocked me. Opened my eyes, I'd never be the same again. I combat as a Syrian experience. And devastating to what your sense of life is worth. Your sense of self. You have no illusions about yourself.

• 0:40Speaker 02

  Or what life comes down to, it comes down to a very basic thing. Survival.

• 0:47Speaker 02

  And with some consideration for all the men and women all over the world who are in prison tonight. I thank you.

• 0:54Speaker 03

  They are what? They are a reflection of you seeking something? Or in a sense, taking leave of something?

• 1:00Speaker 02

  I think you leave and seek, and the both occur. You've gone through a process and you leave it. You become a bit of what you've done. And it's sort of a benchmark that tells you, I was here. And now I can move on.

• 1:19Speaker 01

  30 seconds.

• 1:43Patrick Bet-David?

  All right. Okay, so are we live, Rob? Yes, sir. Listen, can you imagine if we're watching the intro here together? Okay? With the great Oliver Stone and his son, Sean, who is here. They're working, Sean just finished up a documentary, All the President's Men, which we'll talk about later on with Tucker, with a bunch of different guys, about Trump. And I'm going through the list. And again, we had you on March of 2022. Okay? Which, when you were on at that time... The whole Ukraine thing was new, it had just happened, so we started talking about it and you know, it was kind of risky to give the opinions and you gave and we talked about, but yeah, reminder to everybody, what movies you've been a part of, if you don't mind me taking a moment and sharing this.

• 2:25Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, Wall Street, we just watched it with the kids the other day, okay, writer and director. Wall Street Money Never Sleeps with Shia LaBeouf, director. Midnight Express, writer, Conan the Barbarian, writer, Scarface, writer. Platoon, writer and director, Born on 4th of July, writer, director, producer, JFK, all three. Natural Born Killers, all three, Nixon, by the way, I loved, loved Nixon. I don't, I can't believe most people don't watch that. It's such a great, Anthony Hopkins, phenomenal movie with the, with the stories you see, Avita, Any Given Sunday, Alexander Snowden, I can keep going on, things you've done with Lula, 2024, writer, director, Putin, all the interviews. It's great to have you here again.

• 3:08Patrick Bet-David?

  Oh, that's right, Nuclear Energy with Russia, which we'll get into that as well. Oliver, if you want to get a little closer to the mic, that'd be great, but it's great to have you guys here. So let me ask you, for you, you know. Where's my camera? I don't see myself.

• 3:19Speaker 05

  You have six cameras on you.

• 3:20Patrick Bet-David?

  You have so many cameras, but, but for, for you, when you, when you think about it yourself, Sean, uh, to you, he's, he's your dad. But I mean, what's, what's, what is it for you when maybe we miss it? What do you think is the most impressive thing he's done in his career? It's a good question. From your perspective, not ours.

• 3:39Speaker 05

  What is the most impressive thing?

• 3:41Patrick Bet-David?

  Giving birth.

• 3:41Speaker 05

  I, I, yeah, I don't think you did that. Apparently you got kicked out of the, the hospital because he was watching the Niners, he was watching the Niners Giants game.

• 3:49Patrick Bet-David?

  When you were born.

• 3:49Speaker 05

  Playoff game, 84.

• 3:51Patrick Bet-David?

  Not before.

• 3:53Speaker 05

  It was 84.

• 3:53Patrick Bet-David?

  He got kicked out?

• 3:54Speaker 05

  But the Niners won at least, he was happy.

• 4:01Speaker 01

  No, that's not true. You know, it takes a long time. You have to sit there and sit there.

• 4:04Patrick Bet-David?

  Twelve hours sometimes.

• 4:05Speaker 01

  And it was a Saturday or something and I wanted to see that game. So my wife was my wife, I said I'm gonna go out and come back and I came back with a pizza.

• 4:15Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah.

• 4:16Speaker 01

  I'll never forget. She, it was nauseating, the smell. She couldn't take it. So she asked me, get the fuck out. She was screaming. But then I came back. I saw him being born.

• 4:24Patrick Bet-David?

  No, I know.

• 4:25Speaker 01

  I saw him coming out.

• 4:26Patrick Bet-David?

  You saw him being born?

• 4:27Speaker 01

  He did, he did.

• 4:28Patrick Bet-David?

  That's cool. So what do you think it is? What do you think it is from your end? Like, because for us, again, as fans, you're on the inside.

• 4:34Speaker 05

  Yeah. I mean, to a certain extent, I was more on a certain level of personal insight, but he's got a whole other life that I don't know. Um, I think the, it's hard for me to say what's most impressive. I, you look at the films and what he's been able to do consistently across the years is be authentic and be, you know, a storyteller that's not beholden to the system. So you can't say what, you know, JFK is the most important film or Platoon in porn. I mean, each one is a personal experience, right? Some people

• 5:04Patrick Bet-David?

  Do you have a favorite?

• 5:05Speaker 05

  This one more than another. No, I mean, you know, you mentioned like Wall Street at like very watchable, right? Wall Street's kind of movie you can watch.

• 5:12Patrick Bet-David?

  Multiple times.

• 5:12Speaker 05

  Multiple Scarface, you can watch it multiple times. JFK, I've probably seen the most, I would say.

• 5:18Patrick Bet-David?

  Really?

• 5:19Speaker 05

  Well, I like, I like thriller, conspiracy, mystery, and you know, it's such a rabbit hole that you start going down. You really, you recognize there's a lot of details that you can't get on one or two, two tries watching it because it's such a, such a thorough film. Nixon also has that quality.

• 5:34Patrick Bet-David?

  I, I just love, I was surprised how many people I asked, have you seen Nixon? Have you seen Nixon? Have you seen it? No, I haven't seen it. Like, I don't know why you haven't seen it. I, I, I, obviously, I think it's a three and a half hour movie, maybe three hour and 10 minute movie. I don't, can you pull up how many?

• 5:49Speaker 01

  Three twelve.

• 5:50Patrick Bet-David?

  Is it three twelve? Yeah, it's a long movie, but I could not stop watching that film. To learn the history and the acting and the three twelve. Wow, you know the exact minute. That's pretty wild that you know the minute.

• 6:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, you gotta fight for these things, you know?

• 6:05Patrick Bet-David?

  What do you mean you gotta fight for these?

• 6:06Speaker 01

  Three hour movie in those days was not normal at all. It was a special event. When I grew up, it was a uh, what they called, you know, an intermission film. It was a spectacle, but by the time it's 1980s, 90s, it was turned in, you had to make it as a single feature. And that, because they don't want to, they were playing, the theater owners were putting pressure on the studios, you know? We want quicker, we want quicker turnovers. We want six turnovers a day. We want to sell popcorn in between. There's all kinds of economic reasons for it. A three hour and 12 movies, a killer. You only have four shows, three day shows a day. Okay.

• 6:41Speaker 05

  So like now a streaming.

• 6:42Speaker 01

  You're a businessman, you should know that.

• 6:43Patrick Bet-David?

  That makes sense. You can't play that many. So I can do, I can do two, five times. I can do three, maybe three or four times.

• 6:50Speaker 01

  Right.

• 6:50Patrick Bet-David?

  That's the way they think. I got.

• 6:52Speaker 05

  Like a two o'clock, a five o'clock.

• 6:53Speaker 01

  A comedy, an hour forty-five, perfect.

• 6:56Patrick Bet-David?

  That's what they like. The hour forty-five.

• 6:58Speaker 01

  Hour forty even.

• 6:59Patrick Bet-David?

  Well, I mean, what did he prefer to do? Did he prefer a three hour hit that gets hundreds of people coming in or hour forty-five that, you know, five people show up?

• 7:08Speaker 01

  JFK was a hit. Nixon was not because I think Mr., it was a darker poster and he was a darker man and John Kennedy was more popular. Also, people were interested in his assassination, whereas the Nixon presidency was shrouded with ambiguities. And that was a problem selling it. That was a problem selling it. We didn't have a big American star. We had Anthony Hopkins, who's a just very good English actor.

• 7:33Patrick Bet-David?

  He wasn't a big star at the time?

• 7:34Speaker 01

  No, he was not.

• 7:35Patrick Bet-David?

  Are you kidding?

• 7:36Speaker 01

  His previous film was Remains of the Day and Remains of the Day was his biggest film.

• 7:41Speaker 05

  Legends of the Fall.

• 7:43Patrick Bet-David?

  He was a father in that?

• 7:44Speaker 05

  No, that's not true. Hopkins had won the best actor for Silence of the Lambs.

• 7:47Speaker 01

  Oh, I'm sorry. Silence. Yes, you're right.

• 7:49Patrick Bet-David?

  So did you, so Nixon is post Silence of the Lambs?

• 7:52Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 7:52Patrick Bet-David?

  I mean, yeah, meaning Anthony Hopkins. Yeah, Anthony Hopkins to me, you know, do you put him up there for you with guys you've worked at? He's a.

• 8:00Speaker 01

  Oh, I put him at the top, one of the top, you know, up there with Al Pacino. Yeah, sure.

• 8:07Speaker 01

  He was a wonderful man.

• 8:08Patrick Bet-David?

  What, what, what, what makes, because for you, we were talking when, and you know, the audience doesn't see this. And I said, guys, let's, let's go, let's go because we're already having a podcast, right? And what did you say? You said you're, you're, you want all of it to be, what was the word used? You said authentic or you want it to be, uh, you use some word. Where he said he just wanted to be off the cuff. And I said, yeah, that's interesting because in your world, do it again. Second take, third take, fourth take. What's the most takes you've ever done in a scene?

• 8:36Speaker 01

  Not that many. I'm not that, I'm not that patient, you know, maybe twelve, thirteen, fourteen.

• 8:41Patrick Bet-David?

  Oh, okay.

• 8:42Speaker 01

  And that's not working. I mean, I try to make change. Some directors will let it roll and roll and roll because it's tape. I don't feel that way. I feel it's a waste of energy. You've got to concentrate that energy.

• 8:53Speaker 05

  One, one time, one actor had a, a memory problems. He was getting there, older. And, and you had to put the cue cards up and, and then basically force him to just read the cue cards. It was pretty painful.

• 9:06Speaker 05

  I don't know if that was.

• 9:06Patrick Bet-David?

  Is this an actor we know?

• 9:08Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah.

• 9:08Speaker 01

  Well, we shouldn't, he's a good actor. He, Academy Award winner, but he.

• 9:13Patrick Bet-David?

  Oh, wow.

• 9:14Speaker 01

  You know, he reached that stage when drugs and stuff, whatever, medications had slowed him down.

• 9:20Patrick Bet-David?

  And, and then what do you do in that moment? Are you frustrated because?

• 9:23Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, yeah. I had, the other actor was sitting across the table from him, and those people who remember this would know that the other actor was eating the tuna fish sandwich for the scene. It was a lunch scene. So he's eating the sandwich and he ate seventeen or eighteen of them. And I was really worried about his. He was, yeah, but he was a strong guy and he managed to absorb.

• 9:43Speaker 05

  They were ham sandwiches. I think he was getting sick.

• 9:46Speaker 01

  Tuna sandwich.

• 9:47Speaker 05

  It was ham, I think.

• 9:49Speaker 01

  It was really hard, yeah, hard. It's hard. Those are hard moments.

• 9:52Patrick Bet-David?

  So.

• 9:53Speaker 01

  The director goes through some hells.

• 9:55Patrick Bet-David?

  What, you know, when, when you, when you see stuff for, for, again, for us who were not in it, we see the Christian Bale loses mind clip, right? I don't know if you've seen it or not, right? We. You ever seen Christian Bale getting upset at the camera guys, at the light guys, you know?

• 10:08Speaker 05

  On Terminator.

• 10:09Patrick Bet-David?

  Have you seen that?

• 10:10Speaker 05

  On Terminator, uh, three or four.

• 10:12Patrick Bet-David?

  Right.

• 10:12Speaker 05

  It was, uh, he flipped out. He was, he wasn't really happy with the film in general, I think. They, he was, it was not his kind of movie, right?

• 10:19Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah. I mean, and Christian Bale is, is, is, you know, a phenomenal actor, in my opinion. He's a phenomenal actor. But you see him, you see Tom Cruise, you see some of those. I- is that pretty common with the temper flaring because as an artist, as a creator, in that moment, you're getting in such a unique state that you need zero, zero distractions? Is that kind of?

• 10:42Speaker 01

  Well, it happens quite more than you think, you know? People get nervous and they get upset because it takes time. And it, it's a grueling process over sixty days, fifty days, depends.

• 10:54Speaker 01

  And I I've seen many people lose their temper. Everyone loses their temper on something, right? Well, it's not fun. It's not fun to be the director of that person, but that happens. And we have to live with it. It's part of life. They're happy sometimes and they're miserable some other times. But it's a it's a hard process. It's it's a life process. Every film takes something out of you. I I feel like it's a tree, a tree with, you know, rings around. You got those rings, they build up. I don't know how in the old days they did fifty, sixty, eighty films. Okay. You have to, to a certain point, you have to be insensitive and cut it off. It's just, it's just a role, it's just a movie. And you get into a different attitude.

• 11:36Speaker 05

  You used to lose your temper a lot more, though. I think you calmed over the years.

• 11:40Speaker 01

  Who?

• 11:40Speaker 05

  You used to lose your temper a lot.

• 11:42Speaker 01

  Oh, not about myself, I'm talking about the actor.

• 11:44Speaker 05

  But you had some big fights.

• 11:45Speaker 01

  Of course I did. Every director has.

• 11:47Patrick Bet-David?

  What happened with you and Shia? Something happened with Shia, Shia LaBeouf.

• 11:51Speaker 01

  Nothing. Shia was a Shia was a good actor, very, you know, he's very opinionated, that's all, you know. So, you know, save the opinions, because you don't have to tell me about the screenplay and about what you think about the movie and all that, you know.

• 12:07Speaker 05

  No, but you had a very funny conflict with Val, right? Kilmer, you guys got along much better later, but on The Doors, remember? You were at each other's throats.

• 12:15Speaker 01

  He was a bit of a prima donna in my mind.

• 12:18Patrick Bet-David?

  Val was.

• 12:19Speaker 01

  At that point.

• 12:20Patrick Bet-David?

  At that point.

• 12:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:21Patrick Bet-David?

  And and so for for for you.

• 12:25Speaker 01

  But he was working very hard, remember that? And he was doing the songs, too. He had, he was dead, he was close to dead. He cost us a fortune in massages. You know, I mean, we had about, every time he was on the set, we had to pay somebody. It was a fortune.

• 12:42Patrick Bet-David?

  Seriously?

• 12:42Speaker 01

  We went way over budget on that.

• 12:44Patrick Bet-David?

  Just for massages?

• 12:46Speaker 01

  Well, the film was over budget, because that was a big part of it, too.

• 12:50Patrick Bet-David?

  Wow.

• 12:51Speaker 01

  You don't think of these things, do you?

• 12:52Patrick Bet-David?

  I mean, is it, is it, but is, does it get like, you know, there's a story of Maradona. Who they said, hey, we want you to be the coach of whatever Argentine, I don't know if you've heard about this or not. Where he says, yeah, yeah, no problem, but you know what, to do that. I need a bathroom and I need my bathroom to be gold. They said, what do you mean? You ever heard this story or no? Yeah, Rob, can you pull this up to see if, uh, Maradona gold? Maradona gold bathroom, just you type in gold bathroom, let's see if it comes up or not. Diego Maradona's toilet seat evokes memorable. Maybe you heard, or Maradona, zoom in a little bit. Uh, Argentina World Cup, Diego Maradona reportedly requested that is two. High-tech toilets, heated seats. Costs $150 each.

• 13:37Patrick Bet-David?

  Uh, to which page you want, there's $50,000 office bathroom overhaul requesting. Anyways, maybe it's not this one. If you go to the picture, images. He wanted a bathroom that was golden, okay? His request was. Is that the one? It's one of those. Says Maradona, yeah. What is the weirdest request an actor's made? And Oliver, how do you handle that? When they like, they come to you and say, hey, Oliver, listen, this guy wants us to do XYZ. I mean, I can't imagine if they say Val wants to do six massages a day. Six massages a day? Yes. What's the weirdest request you got?

• 14:12Speaker 01

  Do you remember?

• 14:14Speaker 05

  I wouldn't know. That's all, a lot of that just gets. Moved out in the deal structure in the beginning, right? And we'll put in these crazy requests like. You know, you hear about this stuff, Will Smith has, you know, his, his own private gym, you know, he has got a trailer for his gym and. You know, they've got to bring their, I've heard people have to bring their private hairdresser, their driver. You know, they.

• 14:32Patrick Bet-David?

  Those are the worst.

• 14:33Speaker 05

  They bring on their producing, but they bring on, they add all kinds of.

• 14:35Speaker 01

  It's the wasted money, yeah, it's the fringes, the fringes. Well, we always try to keep that down and all, the pictures I made, because they were dedicated to a purpose, you know, we're trying to get this thing done. And the studios were never that cooperative with, with my stuff, they were. It was always a struggle to get it made, you can imagine, even JFK. So you can't, it wasn't, these were not movies given to the. Luxury system that Hollywood had in the eighties, nineties now. But Sean is right, it's uh, the requests would be for assistance and assistance and their publicists and that public and by the time it grows into a little entourage of ten, ten, eight, nine, ten people. Special people to help them with the accent and help them with the

• 15:16Speaker 01

  the, the physical trainer has to go, sometimes the gym equipment has to go, yeah, that's ridiculous. You know, get used to uh, it's not like the old days, get used to life on location for Christ's sake.

• 15:28Patrick Bet-David?

  Oliver, who is a big, big, big shot, award winning, that's the chillest, humblest, easiest to work with?

• 15:37Speaker 01

  Well, I, I uh, I haven't worked with that many of them.

• 15:42Patrick Bet-David?

  Stop it, you work with everybody.

• 15:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, but they were humble at that time. Oh, everybody was humble, Mr. Hopkins, Mr. Pacino. Tom Cruise was young, he hadn't gone into that other hyperspace and you know.

• 15:57Patrick Bet-David?

  You're talking about born on 4th of July.

• 15:58Speaker 01

  And Charlie was normal, so.

• 16:02Speaker 01

  Charlie Sheen, uh, you know, it was, it was, uh, Willem Dafoe has always been, oh, well, I, I can't really, I don't relate to those kind of people, I wouldn't hire them in the first place if possible.

• 16:13Patrick Bet-David?

  What would it be, mother? What if they're the best?

• 16:15Speaker 01

  If they had that reputation, you, you hear about it, you know, you don't want to have all, you don't want all the fringes. You have to be careful. So you have to set the rules at the beginning. Listen, I'm gonna make this kind of movie, it's gonna cost this amount. You know, we gotta move at this pace, we, are you, are you gonna be on board or not? Otherwise, you have to walk away.

• 16:35Speaker 01

  But sometimes you need them to get the fucking film financed.

• 16:39Patrick Bet-David?

  That's what I'm saying, some of these guys have the name.

• 16:41Speaker 01

  It becomes a double, a double edged sword. Or as they say, dual use.

• 16:47Patrick Bet-David?

  Sean, what is, from, from your end, what is the sensitivity from the talent sensitivity versus the director's sensitivity? How different is that?

• 16:58Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, that's.

• 17:02Speaker 05

  There are different ways of feeling in the world. You know, I would just to put it like this is the director is almost like the chess player, right? They're looking, they have to feel, but they have to be strategically looking at everything. The actor is immersing themselves into feelings and moods that sometimes are maddening. You know, I did the behind the scenes on Alexander. That was my first foray into filmmaking was doing documentaries back when the DVDs had the behind the scene extras, you know, and they'd have the featurettes about the making of or, you know, on W we did the same thing and Nixon we did like, you know, this real story. So on Alexander, I shot Fight Against Time, a feature length documentary. And we got, I got some really good access to be able to see not fully the conversations, but to see a little bit of the dynamic.

• 17:46Speaker 05

  And it's like, you know, Colin Farrell was going through deep moods and experiences and madness at some points, actually.

• 17:53Patrick Bet-David?

  While you're, while the movie is being shot, you're recording him and talking to him.

• 17:58Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's in the, it's in the documentary and you'll see like, you know, how it's like there are points where you start to wonder, is this guy gonna, you know, end up like James Dean? Is he gonna kill himself? Because it's, he's so passionate and erratic and, you know, he was, he was a drinker at the time and, you know, he's Irish and it was like, it was a little bit of, it was testing his, you know, his nerves to say, okay, can he pull this off without going over the edge, right? And I think that's, that's the issue is always, you know, when you're pulling out a performance from an actor, it's like pushing them to a place that's uncomfortable. And that's goes to the question of the conflict that sometimes occurs is that he's pushing, he knows how to push buttons. There's a very famous story of telling Michael Douglas on the first day of Wall Street

• 18:43Speaker 05

  or second day of Wall Street, you know, I saw the, what was it, dailies from, you know, yesterday. What are you like, you're a TV actor? You know, like he'll, he'll say stuff like that to provoke, right?

• 18:54Patrick Bet-David?

  With a straight look or with a smile?

• 18:55Speaker 05

  No, totally, totally straight. I think Douglas was, Douglas was shocked. No?

• 19:00Speaker 01

  That's probably true. It's probably true, yeah. We were having issues on the first. It was the wrong. He approached it. I have to say, I mean, he may not agree with me. He's right. But he approached the movie like it was the Streets of San Francisco or something, you know, one of the TV series that he did. It was just not the depth that I was looking for. I needed to. He was a major figure in the film. He was the antagonist. And frankly, he got an Academy Award, so something happened, you know? He deepened. He deepened in that movie as an actor.

• 19:33Patrick Bet-David?

  What do you tell them? What are you telling them?

• 19:35Speaker 01

  Well, you have to, first of all, deal with it. You have to deal with what you're seeing. I mean, they may not be. You may not be right. It might be too subjective. But tell the actor, be honest. If it's the time to be honest, sometimes you hold back.

• 19:49Patrick Bet-David?

  But what I'm saying is, as a director, is a part of the director not being afraid of getting under their skin?

• 19:55Speaker 01

  You have to be. You have to tell the truth to some degree. You can't just fake it. I hate those directors who always say, oh, great job, great job. That's the words become meaningless, the currency useless. You have to have some truth factor in all your relationships, otherwise you're not. You're a boutique. Otherwise, you're just being a showman. You're a traffic cop.

• 20:16Patrick Bet-David?

  How do you manage that versus walking on eggshells around you? Was there an element of walking on eggshells around you? And is that okay?

• 20:22Speaker 01

  I think I was famous for walking on eggshells.

• 20:25Patrick Bet-David?

  You're walking on eggshells or the people around you were walking on eggshells?

• 20:28Speaker 01

  Some, I don't know. Come on.

• 20:30Patrick Bet-David?

  You know what I'm asking, because to me.

• 20:32Speaker 01

  That's a good point.

• 20:33Patrick Bet-David?

  Is the idea of keeping the standards so high, where the actor's coming and saying, oh, shit, this isn't, I gotta deal with him. I gotta be ready for it. And then you know he's gonna say something to upset you?

• 20:48Speaker 01

  No, I don't. I never said do that on purpose unless something was going wrong. You know, for example, let's say an actress comes in and she's more concerned about.

• 20:58Patrick Bet-David?

  Oliver, can you speak into the microphone?

• 21:00Speaker 01

  She's more concerned about her, the way she looks and the way. She doesn't give a damn about the movie or the other people. It's just her. And when you have that kind of egocentric personality, you have to. You have to. You have to move away from that. You have to get more into the shadows.

• 21:15Patrick Bet-David?

  What will you say to that person?

• 21:16Speaker 01

  Well, you have to get, start dealing with that psyche, and that's not easy sometimes, because some people are very hung up on themselves.

• 21:22Patrick Bet-David?

  How much of it is private? How much of it is public around everybody?

• 21:26Speaker 01

  You know something, that's a good question, because usually it's, I keep everything private, but the crew feels it. The crew knows. In fact, sometimes the crew knows ahead of the director. You hear the words, you know, the A Ds, they talk, and the Kramer crews are very sharp. They've been on a lot of movies. If the actress or actor is a dud, they know it. And they'll let you know it. If he's just not up, he or she is not up to par, they'll let you know. It's an interesting thing that goes on, dynamic.

• 21:58Patrick Bet-David?

  By the way, let me ask you this. So you did, Wall Street One, the main cast is all in two, right? Money Never Sleeps.

• 22:06Speaker 05

  No, no Daryl Hannah, no Sean Young. Charlie just does a cameo in two.

• 22:10Patrick Bet-David?

  Oh, you're right. Charlie just does a cameo, but he is in it at least, right? There is a cameo of him. How much when you were doing Money Never Sleeps, because the movie did so well, did you call Charlie or talk to him and say, hey, here's what I'm thinking about doing, what do you think about this? Or no, hey, Charlie, I'm doing this, I need you to do this?

• 22:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, I just asked him, and he was very friendly about it. Yeah, he was making a comeback at that time.

• 22:36Patrick Bet-David?

  Was he upset that he was not the guy playing in Wall Street?

• 22:39Speaker 01

  No, because he was a younger man. It was another kind of time. Twenty years had passed. So he, in other words, Gecko was sixty.

• 22:47Patrick Bet-David?

  Coming out of jail and Creed and all this stuff, he's coming up with his book launch.

• 22:51Speaker 01

  It's another young man, and Josh Brolin was playing a key role. He was playing the Gecko role as a young man. Oh, I'm sorry. So that was a whole different ballgame.

• 23:03Speaker 05

  I was just upset they killed my character. Gordon Gecko's son was killed.

• 23:07Speaker 01

  And he had a daughter.

• 23:08Speaker 05

  They replaced the son with a daughter.

• 23:10Patrick Bet-David?

  You were in it?

• 23:12Speaker 05

  No, so I was Gordon Gecko's son in the original.

• 23:14Speaker 01

  That's right, that's right, yeah.

• 23:15Speaker 05

  And the son is supposed to have killed himself in the original Wall Street.

• 23:19Speaker 01

  That's part of the story.

• 23:20Patrick Bet-David?

  Did that kind of like, hey, what's up, dad? What's the story all about?

• 23:24Speaker 01

  If you had Gordon Gecko as a father, you might kill yourself too.

• 23:28Speaker 05

  I think he...

• 23:30Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, I'm looking at this.

• 23:33Speaker 01

  But that was a great cast, and Frank Langella, I have to say, played an old tycoon. He was perfect.

• 23:39Patrick Bet-David?

  By the way, I love Josh as well.

• 23:41Speaker 01

  Josh was great.

• 23:42Patrick Bet-David?

  Josh is phenomenal.

• 23:44Speaker 01

  And Michael is always underrated, but he was really good in the movie.

• 23:47Patrick Bet-David?

  So the reason why I asked this question, did you watch Gladiator Two?

• 23:51Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yes, I did.

• 23:53Patrick Bet-David?

  What'd you think about it?

• 23:54Speaker 01

  I had empty calories feeling like, like, you want, it's certainly watchable, it's good, well-made, usually take Ridley film, but I didn't care about the people, I wasn't invested.

• 24:06Patrick Bet-David?

  The, uh, your comparison of one versus two?

• 24:11Speaker 01

  Oh, one was a, was a classic, two is empty calories, like a commercial product.

• 24:18Patrick Bet-David?

  I, I, I was so upset after watching two.

• 24:21Speaker 01

  Really?

• 24:21Patrick Bet-David?

  I, I was so upset. My wife's like, babe, give it a break. I said, no, babe, I'm, I'm, you know why? Because I don't think, and you know, I'm not in the world to know what, but with the risk of after you make a movie that's a ten to come out and do a, another one, and, and to me, yeah, they showed that the, it was the biggest movie Denzel's ever done money-wise. I think it was a quarter of a billion dollars or whatever the money made, I saw the numbers. But I gave it a six and a half at best.

• 24:48Speaker 01

  Hmm. Well, because you're a Gladiator yourself, you know, you're, you're powerful.

• 24:52Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah.

• 24:52Speaker 01

  And you probably didn't like the, the physique of the guy as much.

• 24:56Patrick Bet-David?

  I, I, I just, the whole, the story was okay, but there was something about it. And the reason why I'm asking this question, because, did you, did you see the clip of Russell Crowe being asked about Gladiator two and what he said? Have you seen this or no?

• 25:09Speaker 01

  No.

• 25:09Patrick Bet-David?

  Please tell me neither one of you guys have seen this. Okay, so then I want to get the raw reaction from you.

• 25:14Speaker 01

  Jesus.

• 25:14Patrick Bet-David?

  Can you, can you pull this up, Rob? Can you pull up the one I sent you? I texted you the clip. If you can play this clip. He's being asked about Gladiator, and this one guy says, uh, he's doing a reaction on Russell Crowe's, uh, uh, question about it, and Russell says, oh my God, they, they better start paying me because, you know, I'm being asked so much about this movie, and I'm not even in the movie. And, and the, and the question was, right here, if you can play this clip, and then I'll just get to it. Go for it, Rob.

• 25:44Speaker 06

  I asked Russell Crowe about Gladiator two. They should be fucking paying me for the amount of questions.

• 25:49Speaker 01

  Have had to answer about the film that I'm not even in.

• 25:51Speaker 06

  Ridley Scott recently wrapped filming for his Gladiator sequel starring Paul Meskell, Denzel Washington and Pedro Pascal. Meskell plays a grown up Lucius from the first film. And let's just say Russell Crowe doesn't have anything to do with the sequel and doesn't want anything to do with it.

• 26:04Speaker 01

  I don't know anything about the cast. I don't know anything about the plot. Well, I wouldn't, would I? Because I'm dead. I have no idea what they're doing. And it's got nothing to do with me in that world. I'm dead, six feet under. That's that. I was in Malta recently. We did a concert there and I looked across to Fort Bacassalee and the Colosseum's built there again, like it was in 1999. It was like a time warp. For a couple of seconds there, I was like, what year is this? I wasn't expecting that they would rebuild the Colosseum in the same place. I admit to a certain tinge of jealousy. If Ridley has decided to do a second part to that story, he will have really strong reasons.

• 26:41Speaker 06

  Movie comes out right around Thanksgiving.

• 26:42Patrick Bet-David?

  So you can pause. So what do you think about his response?

• 26:46Speaker 01

  Whose response?

• 26:47Patrick Bet-David?

  Russell's.

• 26:48Speaker 01

  I think he's very diplomatic.

• 26:52Patrick Bet-David?

  Have you ever worked with Russell?

• 26:54Speaker 01

  No.

• 26:56Speaker 01

  Why?

• 26:58Patrick Bet-David?

  Would you want to?

• 26:59Speaker 01

  If the part was right, why are you on hook? Why are you barking up this street for?

• 27:05Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, I'll tell you why. I'll tell you exactly why. The reason why I'm asking this question, Oliver, is because for me, like,

• 27:13Patrick Bet-David?

  Gladiator is a top 50 movie of all time. My opinion, in my opinion. You can go and debate movies. It's all in the eye of the beholder. You know how this works. Okay, that's my type. This is your type. You talk to Mary, I'll talk to Jennifer. We're squared away, right? And for you to make the movie, is it normal when a movie is this big of a hit to not even talk to Russell and say, here's what we're? I would have never expected anything to happen with two without him not being asked about it. Or is that pretty normal?

• 27:44Speaker 01

  He said he was dead, so what he, his character was dead. This is another, it's all fiction anyway. There was no, no, nothing realistic about it.

• 27:53Patrick Bet-David?

  Cameo in it, though. Why don't you put something to like a?

• 27:55Speaker 05

  Well, they did.

• 27:56Patrick Bet-David?

  Not a cameo like?

• 27:57Speaker 05

  They had flashbacks to the original. They had moments where you see him in the original.

• 28:00Patrick Bet-David?

  But there's, he knew nothing about what's gonna happen with the movie, though. Would you have done it that way? Would you have done two differently?

• 28:06Speaker 01

  Well, first of all, I would have conceived a different script, but. It's important, you know, it's a new concept. It was all, that was the way it was created and maybe that's good. You know, what does the dinosaur film have to do with the previous dinosaur film?

• 28:23Speaker 05

  Jurassic, Jurassic World.

• 28:25Speaker 01

  Jurassic World, what does that have to do with it? Why would you talk to the previous dinosaur?

• 28:31Patrick Bet-David?

  Well, I get, I get what you're saying when you're saying talking to the previous dinosaur. But if you, if you watch Jurassic Park, I don't know if Jurassic Park is tied to an actor that I emotionally were affected by.

• 28:45Speaker 01

  Well, that's because you're, you're a gladiator. That's the only reason, you know, you're a subject.

• 28:49Patrick Bet-David?

  You don't see the movie, so how do you watch the movie? How different does a guy like you watch a movie?

• 28:52Speaker 01

  I watch the whole thing. I don't, I, I'm.

• 28:55Patrick Bet-David?

  You watch the cinematography?

• 28:57Speaker 01

  Everything, yeah, it's a whole, it's, it's, it's a whole experience. It's, it's a life. No, I don't, I don't focus on one, one, one, one, one part, aspect of it.

• 29:11Patrick Bet-David?

  Got it, so you just called me one dimensional. You hurt my feelings.

• 29:15Speaker 01

  Well, you're a businessman.

• 29:16Patrick Bet-David?

  I'm walking on eggshells around you now, right? So you, you just, I just got the feeling of the stories you tell. But for you, just out of curiosity, what are your favorite movies? Like what kind of stuff do you like?

• 29:25Speaker 01

  I love movies.

• 29:26Patrick Bet-David?

  I love movies too, from your lens.

• 29:28Speaker 01

  There's actually a few, three, four hundred. I mean, he knows, I watch old movies along with new movies. So I mix it up and I get confused sometimes as to what, I don't remember all the things I saw. Give me a list and I'll tell you.

• 29:40Patrick Bet-David?

  What, what have you watched the most?

• 29:42Speaker 01

  The most?

• 29:42Patrick Bet-David?

  The most times, over and over and over and over again.

• 29:49Speaker 01

  Sound of Music, I know.

• 29:50Patrick Bet-David?

  Really?

• 29:51Speaker 01

  You know, there was, there are old movies.

• 29:53Patrick Bet-David?

  That's one of my dad's favorites.

• 29:54Speaker 01

  My Fair Lady, there's hundreds of movies that are great. This is, listen, if we stop making movies now, no more movies were made, I'd be fine. I mean, I could, there's enough there for the rest of time, you know, honestly. And also there's a, I read it, I discovered old movies that I didn't see, which is a wonderful experience. And I, I, I, I think there's a, it's a, you know what? The, in the Renaissance, there's a period when they all talk about Italy and they all talk about Flemish painting. That's what we're in. The movie business was that moment. We have those hundreds and hundreds of paintings. We should enjoy them all.

• 30:34Patrick Bet-David?

  Right. I I I agree, but was was there a, you know, flick where you guys?

• 30:38Speaker 01

  But that's the problem. That's what critics do. I don't want to do that. They say the ten best, the best. That's such a bullshit.

• 30:45Patrick Bet-David?

  That's not the question, though. The question is.

• 30:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, it is, because you you tend to narrow things down. People have to say, I saw that movie, but it's better than that one and that one. Come on, just wake up, be enjoy the whole thing.

• 30:56Patrick Bet-David?

  Do you know what movie I watched like God knows how many times that nobody would ever say it's like one of the greatest movies of all time? Cocktails. I swear to God, Cocktails with Tom Tom Cruise and what's his name? Is it not Christopher?

• 31:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:09Patrick Bet-David?

  Who's who's in Cocktails? What's the other guy's name? Uh, yeah, Brian Brown. Oh, my God, he he crushed it in that movie, right?

• 31:18Speaker 05

  Oh, the Alc.

• 31:19Patrick Bet-David?

  The the bar barman poet or whatever there was, you know?

• 31:23Speaker 01

  Um, well, there's hundreds of those movies.

• 31:25Patrick Bet-David?

  Well, I get that, but to me, that movie I watched in the army probably two hundred times. Like, we literally at our unit.

• 31:33Speaker 05

  It was really an escape for you at that point.

• 31:35Patrick Bet-David?

  You know what it was? And and maybe maybe this is the part about the story, because remember, what's the story of cocktails? Cocktail, it's the story of this guy that's got a dream of one day being a business owner, right? And eventually, what does he do? He opens up Cocktail and Dreams, right? And the restaurant and all this other stuff. And then, hey, I bet you'll never spook me again. I bet I will. What's that? You know, all these these moments, but no one, Cocktail is not on anybody's one hundred list. I feel like taste is different than criticism, if that makes sense.

• 32:08Speaker 05

  Of course.

• 32:08Patrick Bet-David?

  Criticism is criticizing this movie or that movie versus. Now, listen, I can watch a movie like that simple over and over again, and I love it.

• 32:16Speaker 01

  Sean, he grew up in the nineteen eighties. Ask him what he you remember, you saw it twenty times.

• 32:22Speaker 05

  Well, the eighty, I mean, the eighties, to me, I still go back to. If I just feel like, you know what? I just want something fun. I love the eighties as a decade, right? Because they started to mix genres in a way. Where it's comedy, it's adventure, right? It's sci fi. They get Back to the Future, right? What genre is that? It's a it's a almost a perfect film, but like you said, it's not going to win Best Picture. And yet, it's one of the most classic and a lot of the most classical classic films that we think and we want to watch every year. Whatever, you know, whether it's Wonderful Life, I don't think Wonderful Life won Best Picture. It didn't do well when it opened.

• 32:52Speaker 01

  But what what are some of the films that did less well in the eighties you you loved?

• 32:58Speaker 05

  Countless, countless.

• 33:00Speaker 01

  What was the horror film?

• 33:00Speaker 05

  The Lost Boys, The Monsters.

• 33:02Patrick Bet-David?

  The Lost Boys.

• 33:02Speaker 05

  Right, I mean.

• 33:04Speaker 01

  The horror films that you love.

• 33:05Speaker 05

  I mean, too many. I saw them all when I was young, and so.

• 33:08Speaker 01

  Candyman.

• 33:09Speaker 05

  Yeah, Candyman was fun. You know, that's why I think when you ask about like films, I always say to people, what's your favorite experience in your life? What's your favorite moment in your life? Go back in your life. What's, because I think that's it. It's like, a film is a moment, an experience that you have. Maybe it's with the people you watch it with, right? Sometimes it's the, the date you're on, or just the experience of, oh wow, that brought me to, I was in a down, I was in the dumps and I watched that movie, or I remember being in high school and waiting for Friday night to go see American Pie, because it was like gonna take me out of this experience and take me somewhere else. So you can't really say this is better than that. They're just moments in our lives.

• 33:46Patrick Bet-David?

  Oh, I fully agree. I, I agree. Like, to me, it's the, you know, moments of like Rocky IV. I can't, you know why I watched that movie so many times? My mother's side, they were communists. They were all part of the Today Party. Today Party back in the days, you may know the Today Party from back in the days, they were communists. My dad, imperialist. So watching Rocky, you know, is mom and dad. Can communists and Americans come together, right? Can these two guys find a way to green? Didn't happen. They got married and divorced twice to each other, right? But there's a story to it. So for me, Rocky IV, I watched it in Iran, in Farsi.

• 34:26Patrick Bet-David?

  Think about how Rocky sounds speaking Farsi, right? Because that's how we would, when you would buy, the guy would sell it to you, the guy that speaks Farsi. No, I agree with you. Eighties, to me, not only some of the best movies, but I think eighties is also Days of Thunder.

• 34:39Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 34:39Patrick Bet-David?

  You know, eighties music, eighties music is the best. I think it's the best decade of music, period. So maybe, let me go a different angle here, question wise, for you guys. Yeah. Oliver.

• 34:52Patrick Bet-David?

  In sports, are you a sports guy? Do you like sports? Okay. Sean, are you also sports? You're a big guy yourself.

• 34:58Speaker 05

  I told you, he was watching football on the day I was born. We know the 49ers.

• 35:02Patrick Bet-David?

  Is it just football or is it all sport? Okay, so all sport. Okay. So you know, when you talk about guys that play two sports? Brian Jordan, Deion Sanders.

• 35:13Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 35:13Patrick Bet-David?

  You know, you got a few of these. Bo Jackson, right? You got like handful of these guys that did both and they did pretty well. Deion's probably one of the better ones that was able to.

• 35:22Speaker 05

  Michael Jordan tried it.

• 35:23Patrick Bet-David?

  Michael Jordan tried it, but Deion actually succeeded.

• 35:25Speaker 05

  Deion was great.

• 35:25Patrick Bet-David?

  Deion was great in both. Braves and all the stuff that he did. But the question is, in in movie, i- is it a different sport to go from making movies to making documentaries? Or is it the same sport?

• 35:40Speaker 01

  Well, it's the same process in a sense.

• 35:45Speaker 01

  Documentaries are very important to me and I did twenty of them or fifteen, I know. But the reason is that brings you back to the research world, the real world, the world that you're actually dealing with people who are live. And you're getting in touch with that aspect of yourself. Whereas in, if you live on a stage or live with the fictional film, it's it's another world. It's it's artificial. And you're constantly trying to create realities. So it's it's it's a real challenge. That's why it's important to stay in touch with the real world. And a lot of Hollywood people do not do not. I mean, the reason I'm into contemporary events. I mean, look at the films I did in the last twenty.

• 36:27Speaker 01

  The World Trade Center, W, the film of George Bush. I stayed current. I wanted to be know what was going on. And I, the last one was Snowden. That was right on the, we did it on the cusp of what happened. And it was very important to me to know what was going on in computers at that point. I don't regret that. You know, they may not have done as well because the American century changed. After 2001, we became another animal, you know? And that affected the culture and the appreciation. And the and the generation changed and a new generation came along who didn't know the same things that the 1980s and 70s generation knew. Think about it that way.

• 37:07Patrick Bet-David?

  Is that fair to say that you're an anomaly for that?

• 37:11Speaker 01

  No, I think I cared about events that were going on around us. And when I see some of the treatment of the current events, Hollywood doesn't care. They don't, they don't base their films on that. They don't want to reflect reality necessarily. They want to, yeah, they'd love to get the money from it, but it's a creation of fantasy, too. And the films don't deal with the American century. What has America become after 2001? You have to, and I, those films don't really deal with it. It's, it's another, more imperialist, more authoritarian, more patriotic, more soldier, militaristic, militaristic. I mean, come on, that has to be reflected in movies.

• 37:55Speaker 01

  Maybe Gladiator reflects that, but maybe it does.

• 38:01Patrick Bet-David?

  But is, is it common for, for guys at your level? There's, there's only a handful of you guys to do movies and to do docs. That's why I mean, is that a multi-sport?

• 38:11Speaker 01

  I meet a lot of Hollywood directors, producers. We never talk about current events because I don't get any sense, a li, interest in it. We always talk about artificial stuff, which is fun sometimes. I think, you know, it talks about movies. That's another world. Documentaries as a whole, I've gotten so much introduction to the world through documentaries, from meeting Chavez and Castro, meeting, you know, the Israelis, meeting Putin and nuclear energy, and that was not about a person. That was about an issue. Come on, that was a very difficult movie for me to make. All I talked to was scientists.

• 38:49Speaker 05

  Just to your question, a different sport, I would say acting and directing would be like playing two sports, right? Because they're very different ways of being.

• 38:58Speaker 05

  Documentary to film, it's it's just a different medium. Documentary is a different way of of making a movie and telling a story. But it's still the same fundamental principles, right? You're either setting up cameras, your actors are you're either your participants, you know, like reality show style or interview style. You're sitting down, you're talking to someone, you're you're feeling, okay, what's the tempo? Is this boring? Do I have to cut away to something else? Where the visual is coming from, right? You know, am I going to archives or am I shooting it? So it's the same principle of storytelling. It's just maybe the budget. Generally, the budget is nowhere near what you get with the film. You don't have to stage everything. It's a little bit different, but the same principles of storytelling apply. And there are films that, you know, can apply them documentary style or the mockumentary style, right? And make that bring that that that tempo to it.

• 39:42Speaker 05

  And likewise, you can bring cinematic style to documentary. So I think there are just there are many different languages. And it's like you go to film school and you watch some of these things and you're like, man, you know, the Maya Deren types and the Brack Stan Brackage and things like this. And, you know, there's many others. They're they're not necessarily the most entertaining films, but it just shows you how film, you know, how do you say we've there Hollywood has created a certain style for the most part, right? That's larger than life and, you know, goes back to, let's say, you know, the epics of Griffith and whatnot, Gone with the Wind. But if you go across the world, there's many different styles of storytelling that from a Hollywood perspective would come across as boring, but might resonate more with

• 40:24Speaker 05

  a more documentary approach like a like an Ozo or someone like this, you know, Japanese approach to storytelling that might be a little bit more like day in the life and a little bit more focused on on nuance that maybe a documentarian would be interested in as opposed to a Hollywood filmmaker, right? There's different approaches to that same. It's still storytelling, it's just different ways of telling.

• 40:44Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, I mean, I'm just trying to find out like, you know, Justin Timberlake is a triple threat. He can sing, act, and, you know, dance, you know, when they when they talk about that, right? Those are different skill sets. I don't know if Denzel can dance, and I don't know if Denzel can sing. So, okay, maybe he's not in that sense. A triple threat, right? That's why I'm saying at this level is it? I'm just making movies. I'm not doing documentaries. Okay, for me to go do both is not common at this level. That's why I thought me and I'm asking a question about whether it's two separate sports to be played. And you know, Oliver, like what gets you to say? I want to make this movie or I want to? What is the first spark that I want to write about this?

• 41:26Patrick Bet-David?

  I want to go pursue this and maybe even do documentary on it. What's the first spark that gets you interested?

• 41:35Speaker 01

  So often it's the importance of it, you know, like to me, nuclear energy was very important because we're facing climate change. If you accept that, what are we going to do? Are we providing the solution? And if you study the issue and really study it and talk to people, you, you have to doubt the conventional idea that we're going to be saved by renewables. So first thing that comes up, people say, what are we doing? We're, we're still have, why are we not improving? Why are the fact, why is the carbon dioxide still the same? After all these renewables, after all the trillions of dollars we've spent? Look at Germany. I mean, the whole concept of going to nuclear was caused by that because we have to wake up and we don't.

• 42:18Speaker 01

  And that's why you have to make something because this is urgent. Now, look at that poster. That's, there's not, not a person, not a face on it, right? That poster, it's a, it's not necessarily, it's a look like a Walt Disney space picture or something. I don't, I'm not going to run out and see that. That's the problem.

• 42:34Patrick Bet-David?

  But, but, but again, so what, what got, what got you to want to do that?

• 42:38Speaker 01

  Because I had to, because we're all going to fry. You're going to, I don't want to be walking around. I don't want him to walk around and, you know, burn up. It's going to be very tough unless we deal with this energy issue. I don't, there has to be solutions. Everyone's thinking of the future. There's going to be a solution. We're going to figure it out. Well, we got to get serious now, back then. You, you may not agree with me and a lot of people don't, but my God, I think it's the burning issue of our day. Beyond Ukraine, beyond Joe Biden and Donald Trump. This is a real, real significant issue. Look at the figures. This is disgusting.

• 43:20Patrick Bet-David?

  Right, this is why, you know, Rob, this is US nuclear power capacity additions by your initial operation.

• 43:28Speaker 01

  Well, don't go by the US, you should go by China or Russia.

• 43:30Patrick Bet-David?

  That's a good point. So China and Russia is a different story, but this is for us, right? So for you that did the documentary, do you have the other one as well, Rob? That we went away from it for a while, whether you want to call it Chernobyl.

• 43:40Speaker 01

  Oh, that's for sure, yeah.

• 43:41Patrick Bet-David?

  Whatever the reasons are.

• 43:43Speaker 01

  Well, because of the, all the fear, it was a fear that drove us away from it.

• 43:47Patrick Bet-David?

  So what did you learn at the end of the documentary?

• 43:50Speaker 01

  Among other things is that the fear was ridiculous because there was none of those accidents really added up to anything compared to the other waste products of other energies such as gas and oil and coal.

• 44:02Patrick Bet-David?

  This is the one that answers your question for you. Construction starts of nuclear reactors in the world.

• 44:07Speaker 01

  It's depressing.

• 44:08Patrick Bet-David?

  From 51 to today, the orange is China. From 95, if you look at 85, 89, you barely see one or two in China and other countries. Majority of those are us. And then when you come to the last 10 years, majority of it is China.

• 44:23Speaker 01

  Right.

• 44:24Patrick Bet-David?

  Last 20 years, and the rest of the world isn't doing anything.

• 44:28Speaker 01

  Well, they are doing, new countries are coming into it. Yeah, Russia is selling, is doing a very good job of constructing reactors abroad in other countries. They're selling the product. China is doing it, and they're also devised, they're working very hard. China and Russia have SMRs, which are the small modular reactors. They have them. The United States is still working on it, we're way behind. But I do believe we'll come up with a design for an SMR that will be accepted through our regulation process, which is tedious and costs, that's why it costs so much. We don't approve anything. It's like a bad business, right? We're choked. We don't allow new stuff unless it's fancy and has a purpose.

• 45:12Speaker 01

  Like, you know, it's just very hard to get new designs in. We have to change our ways, and I think the SMRs, well, hopefully we'll be there by 2030, hopefully.

• 45:24Speaker 01

  I know Westinghouse is working on one and General Electric. They have good stuff coming.

• 45:28Patrick Bet-David?

  What do you think about China investing in nuclear reactors?

• 45:31Speaker 01

  China is great, great. They're doing so much in terms of building nu- not only nuclear reactors, but they're building, I lament their use of coal still, yes, very, that's very evil, but they are doing better and better and better and they're amazing, some of their buildings. Amazing, they're the future.

• 45:50Patrick Bet-David?

  You're saying China's the future?

• 45:51Speaker 01

  It looks like it. They're doing the best, the most modernistic work.

• 46:00Speaker 01

  And I have high hopes for the rest of the world. I mean, if you go to the east, your countries, I mean, go out there to the stands, go out to that, you know, I just, I did a documentary about Kazakhstan. It's amazing place. It's very future thinking, whole new generation. Building things, creating new cities.

• 46:21Patrick Bet-David?

  It's interesting when you're going into something like this, because for me, like, you know, it's getting into a business. We run nine companies, okay, so all right. So nine guys, how do you get into this company? You find a problem and then you look for the solution on how you would fix it that's maybe different than others, and then what demo are people not in, and then maybe use a certain strategy, blue ocean strategy, that, you know, hey, they're not in this market or whatever, and then you make the adjustments. In a movie sense, what is that process? What is the process of doing a movie or doing a, you know, documentary? Is it, let me see what story hasn't been told, or is it, man, I like the story, I'm gonna write a script? What's that process of starting a business?

• 47:06Patrick Bet-David?

  Because each movie, I remember sitting down with Aaron Spizer, he said, each movie is a business.

• 47:10Speaker 05

  That's right, you're an entrepreneur.

• 47:11Patrick Bet-David?

  You gotta look at, every movie has a business, right?

• 47:13Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 47:13Patrick Bet-David?

  So what is the process of saying, the next business I'm gonna build? Is gonna be Wall Street. The next business we're gonna build is gonna be XYZ. What is that process?

• 47:23Speaker 01

  Well, that's the way you think, uh, and that's what movies are a bad deal. I mean, every time you have to make a new business every few years, it just doesn't work. You know, you, you, you make a movie and they don't accept it, they don't understand it. It's ahead of its time, behind its time, whatever. It's not that easy, you know? So you spend two, three years of your life making a movie. I don't think it's, it's an economic business. I wouldn't go into it for that reason. You go into it as an artist and frankly, you know, say, I wanna make this, my passion is here. It's the most important thing in the world to me right now and blah, blah, blah.

• 47:58Speaker 05

  But there are people that look at it just as a business.

• 48:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:00Speaker 05

  And they're very mercenary and they just take, you know, whatever the, the gig is. Um, and I think that's the real, the really hard thing to navigate. I mean, Scorsese always said he did one film for himself and one film for Hollywood. Right? It's like a compromise.

• 48:15Patrick Bet-David?

  Uh, one film for himself and one film for Hollywood.

• 48:19Speaker 05

  Right.

• 48:20Patrick Bet-David?

  And Hollywood is the money one, for himself is the art.

• 48:23Speaker 05

  Right, that's what he said at least.

• 48:24Patrick Bet-David?

  Interesting. Would you agree with that? Like that format?

• 48:27Speaker 01

  No, it didn't work for me. It doesn't work for me because you have to have a certain, he, he does what he does, you know? He, I, you have to admire him. He was my teacher at NYU.

• 48:38Patrick Bet-David?

  Scorsese?

• 48:38Speaker 01

  He's lasted this long and he's great. Yeah, he's good. And listen, he's made his deal. He's found his way.

• 48:46Patrick Bet-David?

  You're disagree, you're a disagreeable man is the feeling I get, which, which is needed to be a strong man. Uh, that's a compliment. I don't say that in a, because the only reason you would be willing to do, you know, entertain these, these documentaries or movies is because you don't give a shit what the market thinks. You're trying to find out what you're interested in, right? In my, my impression of it.

• 49:06Speaker 01

  I follow in my heart.

• 49:07Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, that's exactly the point. So to me, you know, one of the qualities of an alpha male is that you, you disagree, you debate. You're like, no, I don't know if I agree with that. I don't think that's the right way to go about it, right? So, so when you did go through Scorsese and you're learning from whoever it is, were you at any point as a young man coming to wanting to get in the space? I don't know if I agree with that. I wouldn't do it that way. Did you have those moments as a young man? In his class?

• 49:33Speaker 01

  Not that, no, because I was learning the trade. I was paying attention.

• 49:37Patrick Bet-David?

  How about later on?

• 49:38Speaker 05

  Well, no, his dad used to say, right, your daddy used to always come out of the movie and say, we could have done it better. Right? And so your dad kind of put that into your mind of starting to think about maybe how you would have done a film differently.

• 49:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, my father would always talk about, we could have done it better, meaning there was something wrong with a hole in the movie and a hole in the story. The logic, the logic of it. But that, you become, then you become too logic ridden and sometimes that undercuts you. I, I, and that's happened to me. I made films, so in a way, they round, they wound themselves into a complicated, a knot by the third act. And then you got to get out of the knot.

• 50:13Patrick Bet-David?

  So, your, your father, you're talking Lewis, your grandfather Lewis? Okay. So I just looked it up right now. He passed away March 16th, 85.

• 50:23Speaker 01

  Right.

• 50:23Patrick Bet-David?

  Forty, nearly, next year it'll be 40 years. What, what movie did he get a chance to see? Did, did he get a chance to see anything, any of your work or no?

• 50:35Speaker 01

  Not the features. You saw The Hand, my horror film, and Seizure, my first film out of NYU.

• 50:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, he, he, but I had written Midnight Express, so he knew that I was on my way in that business. And I'd written Conan and my screenwriting stuff.

• 50:54Speaker 05

  He did a cameo in Scarface.

• 50:56Patrick Bet-David?

  Really?

• 50:56Speaker 01

  Oh, he did, yeah, that's right.

• 50:57Speaker 05

  Walking by down the street here in Miami.

• 51:00Patrick Bet-David?

  When did, when did Scarface come out?

• 51:01Speaker 01

  In Miami, yeah.

• 51:02Speaker 05

  Eighty-three?

• 51:03Patrick Bet-David?

  Did he, did he watch Scarface?

• 51:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, sure.

• 51:06Patrick Bet-David?

  What did he say about it?

• 51:07Speaker 01

  He got a kick out of it.

• 51:12Patrick Bet-David?

  But when you watched it with him, were you uncomfortable? Were you like watching him watch it or no? Were you just, hey, here's the art we made, let's watch it?

• 51:20Speaker 01

  No, I never saw it, saw it with him because my dad was, you know, he, he was an economist. He was very, very, very much a Wall Street man.

• 51:33Speaker 01

  But even at the end of his life, he started to, his conservatism was vanishing. He said at the end of his life, he said, you know, we made a big deal about Russia all my life. It was, that was the thing of the Cold War. He was, it was a really big deal. He scared the shit out of me when I was a kid. So by the end of his life, by the late seventies and early eighties, you know, the, after the, well Reagan, it's true, he was in the middle of the Reagan era, but even Reagan started to let up after the near scare of Able Archer in 1983. We had a near nuclear war with Russia. It was ridiculous. It was

• 52:15Speaker 01

  out of fear. And after that, if you remember Reagan and Gorbachev got together in eighty six and started the whole process of détente, which we'd forgotten about, but we almost had a moment when we banned nuclear weapons completely from the earth. That almost happened. They, they were, they'd reached a friendly moment when Reagan was a very affable man that way. And he said, why not? He said, why not? Why don't we get rid of them? And then, of course, the guys on his, that's my father, and the guys behind him said, no, you can't do that. You can't. But George Shultz was in favor of that. He was the Secretary of State at that time. So it's possible. I mean, we can think differently, but we,

• 52:59Speaker 01

  sometimes we, we close up into our balls of fear.

• 53:03Patrick Bet-David?

  Did you, did you write Wall Street based on stories he would tell you from Wall Street or no?

• 53:07Speaker 01

  No, that was based on the fact that we had all those scandals and those young people were starting to make money, you see. My dad was the old Wall Street. That's, I pictured that in the picture with Hal Holbrook and, and the father figure of Martin Sheen, who was the union leader. The younger crowd was amoral, you know, a lot of them were like into the, people were making... Big money, I mean, I don't know if you remember eighty, eighty-three, eighty-four, eighty-five. People were making millions of dollars at the age of twenty-eight, twenty-nine. That was outrageous. We never had even seen that kind of money before. Young people were supposed to, you know, you don't make big money until your forties, fifties, right? That all changed.

• 53:49Patrick Bet-David?

  And in the, later on, the movie that a lot of guys watch that was, you know, form of Wall Street, was Boiler Room, right? Where the J.T. Marlin, I don't know, I think that's what it was called. The firm, J.T. Marlin or whatever, yeah, that's right, that's right. So, this was a first time, you know, we got a chance to watch Vin Diesel on what he did, you know, No Wood, whatever the call was, Ben Affleck, you know, talking about his, you know, Ferrari, this is my house, this is my this, this is my that. It's a phenomenal movie, but it shows the world of penny stock. And I, I think I even remember somebody saying this was depicting what Jordan Belfort did, that later on ended up being the Wolf of Wall Street. I read that somewhere, I may be wrong.

• 54:33Speaker 01

  That's true.

• 54:33Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah.

• 54:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, that was a penny stock crowd, but they, they were never mainstream. They were, they were the side stream. I was, the, the people I'm talking about were mainstream, they were joining the mainstream. And they were controlling the stocks. We had those people, they were coming on. And if you look very closely at the whole, the Gordon Gekko types ended up being the banks by the two thousand and ten period when I did Wall Street, Money Never Sleeps, because that was the idea, is that the independent traders became this. By, by two thousand and ten had so gamed the system and so inflated the system, that they were the new chiefs.

• 55:10Patrick Bet-David?

  What, what, what do you think about Joseph Kennedy?

• 55:14Speaker 01

  What about him? I like him. I mean, he did amazing stuff. He created a clan, he, he, he nourished his, his, his kids to become leaders, and he was a very good father in the end, he tended to be a very good father.

• 55:29Patrick Bet-David?

  Did, did he ever inspire you to want to do a movie on him or a documentary on him?

• 55:32Speaker 01

  No, wait till, no, he was the progen, he, he was the progenitor of the, of a family. I admired John, as you know, and Robert very much, and Ted too. As well as the sisters.

• 55:46Patrick Bet-David?

  So you wouldn't have interest in doing a movie like that? I'd love to see you do something with on Joseph Kennedy. It'd be.

• 55:51Speaker 01

  Why, why you, why you?

• 55:52Speaker 05

  What angle do you think?

• 55:53Patrick Bet-David?

  Are you kidding me? Like if there's a, I, yeah, so if I ever wanted to get into, in two to five years, we're gonna get into movies. Not right now. We're building this whole thing. We're gonna, you know, build the Burbank of East Coast here in Fort Lauderdale. We think that's a great market for it, right?

• 56:09Speaker 01

  I suggest a book. If you're interested in Joe Kennedy, there's a wonderful book, fiction by Richard Condon, who wrote Man, You're in Canada. It's called Mile High.

• 56:18Patrick Bet-David?

  Is it on him?

• 56:19Speaker 01

  It's a wonderful book. It's about, yeah, it's about Joe Kennedy, but it's, it doesn't, it's a fiction.

• 56:24Speaker 05

  Fictionalized version.

• 56:26Patrick Bet-David?

  Mile.

• 56:26Speaker 01

  Mile High. What does it say?

• 56:28Patrick Bet-David?

  Rob, can you send that to me so I can buy?

• 56:30Speaker 01

  I'm looking right now.

• 56:31Patrick Bet-David?

  I think you can send it to me. That'd be great.

• 56:32Speaker 01

  Wonderful story.

• 56:33Patrick Bet-David?

  Is it called Seed of Destruction?

• 56:36Speaker 01

  No, Mile High it's called.

• 56:38Patrick Bet-David?

  I don't see Mile High anywhere, but anyways, if you find it, send it to me.

• 56:41Speaker 01

  Richard Condon, C O N D O N? Come on, Rob, you find everything.

• 56:47Speaker 05

  There you go.

• 56:50Patrick Bet-David?

  Rob, if you can send that over to me, I'm gonna read that book.

• 56:52Speaker 01

  Now, there it is.

• 56:53Patrick Bet-David?

  1969. Oh, wow. Oh, there you go. Yeah, send it over to me. That'd be great. So it's an older book that was written on it.

• 56:59Speaker 01

  Nothing wrong with that, is it?

• 57:00Patrick Bet-David?

  No, I love it. I don't have any problem with that. That's why you're here. I'm borrowing your wisdom. But Joseph Kennedy, why not, right? To me, like, what is a bigger last name than the Kennedy last name? And who was the visionary behind it? The amount of stories of him sitting down with the kids at night, who's gonna be the pres- all these different things you hear about and, you know, never wanted to get, you know, at least from the books I read, didn't wanna give credit to the family that he came from, a family of money, where he wanted to kind of like, there's some of those stories that comes out that, you know, he went to Harvard, you know, president of a bank, 28 years old.

• 57:37Speaker 01

  Larry Swanson.

• 57:38Patrick Bet-David?

  I don't know. I think it's a very interesting story. I think it's a very, very interesting story. And it's got such a long lifespan that it's an 80 years into.

• 57:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, but that's hard for movies, remember that.

• 57:52Patrick Bet-David?

  I know. So you have to go like 20 years, right? You have to go like to a scene, is that kinda?

• 57:56Speaker 01

  No rule, no rule at all.

• 57:57Patrick Bet-David?

  But why are you saying it's hard to do it like that? What makes it?

• 58:00Speaker 01

  Because of the span, the time span.

• 58:01Patrick Bet-David?

  So then you can pick a, pick an era to go through, right?

• 58:04Speaker 01

  But you just limited it.

• 58:05Patrick Bet-David?

  If you're gonna make it, I trust you to do it. I'm not.

• 58:09Speaker 01

  You gotta find your significant points that you wanna make.

• 58:12Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, I just think, I just think that guy is one of the biggest power players we had in America, and he'd be a very interesting guy to study. I think the new era doesn't know as much about him to realize the impact he made.

• 58:25Speaker 01

  You know, there was a long period, and he was on the outs. Roosevelt wouldn't talk to him. He was down on his luck. He couldn't get, couldn't get the impact he wanted. He became frustrated during the war.

• 58:36Patrick Bet-David?

  He wasn't respected.

• 58:37Speaker 01

  And then after the war, he bounced back with his, his oldest son died, killed in, in, in an accident in war. And then his second son, he groomed belatedly for the presidency. He won the senate, he won the house in forty-seven or forty, yeah, about forty-seven. And then he, and then senator in fifty-two, right? So he groomed John as his replacement.

• 59:03Patrick Bet-David?

  You don't wanna do anything on him.

• 59:05Speaker 01

  It's a great story, but it's, I kinda, I know the story, I mean, I.

• 59:09Patrick Bet-David?

  I don't, the world doesn't know.

• 59:11Speaker 01

  There's another story about Kennedy I would like to sell.

• 59:13Patrick Bet-David?

  What's that?

• 59:13Speaker 01

  But they won't let me do that. I can't tell you, that wouldn't.

• 59:18Patrick Bet-David?

  Well, listen, your thoughts with all these total amount of hours you put into the JFK assassination story, investigating, right? All the hours that you put into it, okay?

• 59:30Speaker 01

  I'm not gonna give you a quick summation, no.

• 59:32Patrick Bet-David?

  There, there is this, there's this guy, there's this guy that just, I don't know if you've been following it closely. I'm sure you're very busy making movies, so maybe you're not following the news. There's this guy named Donald J. Trump that just became this guy, this thing they call in America.

• 59:45Speaker 01

  What do you mean, I don't follow the news?

• 59:48Patrick Bet-David?

  And he, you know, Bobby is now involved. He's got a pretty heavy job, right?

• 59:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know, I know Bobby.

• 59:55Patrick Bet-David?

  Do you think, you know, since his involvement being in there, we're finally gonna get to the bottom of the CIA documents?

• 1:00:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, possibly, well, there's no bottom to it, because the CIA doesn't put that stuff on paper. But there are a lot of files on people in the CIA at that time, such as James Angleton.

• 1:00:15Speaker 01

  Big place to start, that's a counterterrorism chief of all those years. James Angleton, you've ever heard of him? A very important figure. And you have to go into him to begin, and then there's other people like Bill Harvey and Phillips, David Atlee Phillips, there's Howard Hunt, there's the other guy, Joe Anides, George Joe Anides. Those guys you should track. And they've done nothing. The CIA's done nothing to cooperate with any official. They've been the most hidden organization ever. They've only one time have they have been examined, and that was in Frank Church's committee of 1973, '04. Frank Church, great, great, great senator. One of the...

• 1:00:54Speaker 01

  And they, they found a nest of evil that was so intense, with so many assassinations, sabotage, against America's interests, against America's interests. And they told us the whole time it was for our interest. We killed people who ended up being heroes, and we paid the price. I mean, we're paying the price now insofar as we have, we have no idea what's our own history. No idea about, we've thwarted history. And we're aiming, we're going towards a very dangerous moment right now, but that's another discussion completely.

• 1:01:28Speaker 05

  You know about the forces involved in the coup against the Shah in '79? I mean, '78, '79, that time period, right? You saw it.

• 1:01:35Patrick Bet-David?

  I have my impression. I want to know which one you think. Which direction are you going?

• 1:01:39Speaker 05

  Oh, I think it was a coup. I think the, the US and British wanted to see him go.

• 1:01:44Patrick Bet-David?

  I agree.

• 1:01:44Speaker 05

  I think he was too, he wanted, he was too independent and powerful, and they, I don't know if it came...

• 1:01:50Speaker 01

  Well, they put him there in the first place.

• 1:01:52Speaker 05

  Yeah, but that doesn't mean that he didn't become too independent and powerful for their taste. And I think that, I don't know if it happened at the moment they discovered he had cancer, which was, I think, like '75, '06. They said, "Okay, he's weakening. We gotta replace this." But I would say that the arc of crisis story, remember the arc of crisis that Huntington and Brzezinski were talking about in the late '70s? Of this idea of radical Islam. They were already perpetuating the notion of clashes of civilizations at that time. And it's not just, you know, saying there's a clash of civilizations between Orthodox Christians... Christianity and Islam, they were pushing for these, these rifts, as in Lebanon, as in, well, not Syria at that point, but in Iran in particular.

• 1:02:35Speaker 05

  I think the fact that Homaney was being protected in the West is very indicative and that the BBC was broadcasting his messages from, you know, all of his messages being broadcast by the BBC in Iran is indicative because that's intelligence. That's how it works. It doesn't just work with a guy going in, you know, coup. There's a different dimensions to it. You've got to prepare the population. You've got to, you've got to put money towards this. You've got to make sure that you fly the guy in and say, okay, now he's your new leader. I mean, they knew who Homaney was. You know how crazy it was to, to send him back, right?

• 1:03:07Patrick Bet-David?

  Twice in exile, you know, living in France, Paris, making tapes that they're spreading all over Iran, spreading the message. Very, very interesting what happened with that. And, and the Shah had the, the 25 year old year old agreement that they had from 54 to 79 that was expiring. So these guys had a meeting because they knew when it, he was about to be a very, very powerful man and that was a concern of theirs, of what happened there. But I, I wonder like some of these, for you, like, do you have selfish reasons on things? You know, like even right now, it just happened where I said, I can't find a book and it's a mile high, Richard Condon, can you go look it up?

• 1:03:52Patrick Bet-David?

  He looks at it and says, here we go, we found it, right? You have a, you, you know, the element of doing a doc to say, I was right. There was, this is what happened, you know, all the criticism that they write about whatever you make. Is, is there, is there a desire for you to see, get to the bottom of JFK? Like, is there?

• 1:04:09Speaker 01

  Of course, of course. Well, it just, it seems like we have already accumulated such evidence. It's prima facie, it seems. How can you deny it? How can you deny it? Especially now they were going through so much revelation on so conspiracies left, right. This is what the world is. It's like been working that way. The United States has been working duplicity, duplicitously for years to create.

• 1:04:35Speaker 01

  This empire that we have, that we deny that we have. We have eight hundred bases, we're all over the world, in every single spot. We have our finger everywhere. And we're stirring this constantly. We're busy like malevolent dwarfs, but we're there, everywhere.

• 1:04:53Patrick Bet-David?

  And what concerns you about that?

• 1:04:55Speaker 01

  We're heading towards a nuclear war with, we created enemies that are not necessary. That's what mostly affects me, because if we blow up this thing, it'll be like that scene on the beach when Fred Astaire says, "I don't know how it started." It'll be like that, but we, I know how it started, because it started here. These people who are running Washington right now, these neoconservatives that are in charge, are most dangerous people we've ever had in the world. They're the antithesis of what America was about, antithesis.

• 1:05:28Patrick Bet-David?

  Who?

• 1:05:29Speaker 01

  Who?

• 1:05:29Patrick Bet-David?

  Who?

• 1:05:31Speaker 01

  Well, it's, I would, right now, in this time period, it goes back to the 1990s when they formed up, but before that, there was, it goes way back to the 1940s, before that to the 1990s. Right now, it would be, you know, the Biden administration is playing with fire. They've taken this thing to the edge with Russia.

• 1:05:53Patrick Bet-David?

  They're now the neocons? They're the new neocons? The liberals are the new neocons?

• 1:05:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, isn't that so bizarre?

• 1:05:58Patrick Bet-David?

  How weird is that, Oliver, for you?

• 1:06:00Speaker 01

  The real liberals, people who are really into liberalism, like me, who care about it, the Jon Stewart Mill kind, are disgusted by, these people are saying, are pro-war, they're pro-interference in other people's affairs. They're trying to tell people how to live. That's not the way Mr. Mill described liberalism. Leave them alone. Let live and let live is our, is my philosophy. And get along with your neighbors. What's going on now is Mr. Blinken and Sullivan and all these people that are in the administration are very dangerous people, because they pushed this thing with Ukraine to a place where it

• 1:06:42Speaker 01

  had, no American interests is at stake, none. And we, but we're, Mr. Biden, without a mandate, declared that we have to... Weakened Russia without a mandate. He didn't, he didn't put it up for voting. He said, do you want to go to war with Russia? Do you want to have American missiles flying into Russia? This is outrageous. It never would have happened. You realize in Kennedy's time, it would have been, it would have been a declaration of war. And that's what's going on without our knowing it. We're asleep to that because they, they, it's like boiling the frog. They take it up, you know, incline, a little incline by incline.

• 1:07:19Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:07:22Patrick Bet-David?

  How do you feel for you? Because the documentary you did with all of the president's been. This is the, Sean, as a guy in this documentary, you have Steve Bannon, Cash Patel, right? You have Roger Stone. You have.

• 1:07:39Speaker 05

  Tucker.

• 1:07:39Patrick Bet-David?

  Tucker, you have a bunch of Giuliani.

• 1:07:41Speaker 05

  Flynn.

• 1:07:41Patrick Bet-David?

  Flynn, okay. You got all these guys where, you know, the media would say, Sean, what are you doing? Talking to all these conspiracy theorists, you know, they're all, you know, MAGA and all this other stuff, you know, for you. And they went through this. What was it for you going through it as a director at the beginning with the level of skepticism you had? When you're hearing about election interference, election for all this other stuff? What, did you go personally yourself as a director and evolution from the beginning to the end on Trump? Your impression of Trump?

• 1:08:14Speaker 05

  Well, so, so 2015, 16, I started working for RT America, right? That was in, you know, the DC based group that had Chris Hedges, the Pulitzer Prize winning journalist. It had Tom Hartman, a leftist, a progressive guy, Jesse Ventura, Larry King. We had a lot of really interesting journalists, right? And we were a dissident because at that point, as you know, the media is controlled. We understood, I've understood this since I was seven years old, you know, being in JFK, watching the fallout from JFK, seeing the media reaction to JFK, how, you know, how it was dismissed by the mainstream media. Obviously, some historians got it, but a lot of the mainstream never accepted that, that narrative, right?

• 1:08:57Speaker 05

  They said, it's a great film, but it's bad history and it's a conspiracy theory fantasy. So I understood from seven, eight years old that the media was lying to us. From the first Iraq war through the Bos, the Serbian war, through the second Iraq war. I knew all this stuff. I was watching it, you know, I literally would try to tell people so. When I got a chance to work for RT, that was a way of actually having a platform for us dissidents to say things that were not acceptable on ABC, NBC, CNN, right? And they turned that in 2016, they demonized RT America into this Russian propaganda outlet. That was the, remember when they said that the Russians interfered in the election? Half of that report, which was only like 12, 13 pages, was about RT America.

• 1:09:41Speaker 05

  That was the Russian interference narrative in the Trump election was that RT America was pushing stories that they didn't like about fracking or about Syria, whatever it was. And they're saying, "We interfered in the election." I'm sitting there going, "We're Americans. We have the right to speak our, it's free speech in this country. We can say what we feel and think and, you know, we're doing journalistic work." So I understood this plot, this idea that Russia interfering with the election was so thin at that point in 2017 that after the election, they released the ICA, you know, focusing on RT America. And I go, "Where's the Russian collusion there? You know, what did the Russians do? Did they hack in our election machines? There's no evidence of them hacking into our election machines to switch votes.

• 1:10:26Speaker 05

  So what does, what does that mean to say they interfered in the election? It's just, it's one of those CIA kind of words, you know, interference, Russian interference, misinformation. These are all CIA words that they put out there to confuse people. So at that point, I didn't pay attention.

• 1:10:41Patrick Bet-David?

  Do you know that because you and your dad always talk about this stuff and you being curious about this topic? Or through investigating it, you're like, "This is the CIA words they use."

• 1:10:51Speaker 05

  Yeah, I mean, I wrote a book on the New World Order. It was my college thesis. I did conspiracy theory with Jesse Ventura as a host. I did buzzsaw as a host for many years before RT. So I've been familiar with, you know, history and Untold History of the United States, his docu-series, I worked as an editor for a year on. I gave him, contributed ideas, you know, about some of the angles and points for it. So a lot of this is just my background. So again, when I saw the Russian collusion narrative in 2016 for Trump, I liked Trump coming in. Because I liked the fact that he was an outsider. I thought it was Bush, Clinton, you know, we're stuck in this rigged game. And someone came in who said, hey, Putin, why don't we get along with Putin?

• 1:11:34Speaker 05

  You know, we can, we can talk, we can work with them, we can negotiate. I said, good for him. As soon as he said that, the whole Russian narrative starts to boil over in the media and everyone starts saying, you know, he's a Russian puppet. So I didn't pay attention in 2016 to 2020. I didn't really pay attention to the whole allegations against the Papadopoulos and Manafort and Parter Page and Flynn and Roger. Even though I knew Roger, I just didn't pay attention to it because I felt like, okay, this is going to boil over. There's nothing there. If there's anything really there, we'll, you know, it'll come out, but this is kind of ridiculous, right? This is years going on, years of this accusations. You know, people like this idiot Schiff, who's now our senator, you know, out there saying there's Russian collusion and, you know, you just got to see it.

• 1:12:19Patrick Bet-David?

  With a certainty.

• 1:12:20Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:12:20Patrick Bet-David?

  There is proof. There's, I don't know what word he used, but saying the fact that we have proof that there was collusion.

• 1:12:26Speaker 05

  Yeah, and it's so embarrassing that this guy, he should, he should be like McCarthy type, right? I mean, he should have been called out and said, you know what? You're an embarrassment. He should, he should be nowhere near Congress or Senate. And the fact that California elected him, it just shows how brainwashed people are over there, right? It's pretty sad. I mean, McCarthy at least got to a place where he was making accusations and they couldn't back it up. And they, you know, basically said, you're done. This guy Schiff now wins Senate. It's disgusting. So Pelosi also would say things like that, you know? It's certain with probability or something like she would say these things where it's like, you know, we, we know that the Russians probably interfere. You know, they would use these words.

• 1:13:04Patrick Bet-David?

  But it worked though, if you think about it. It worked on so many people.

• 1:13:06Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:13:07Patrick Bet-David?

  So, but what, what did you learn at the end of it? You're spending time, Cash Patel is now got the head of FBI job, right? You're Steve Bannon, who strategically, they, that guy's brain, the amount of credit he gets on the right for being strategic, he's up there, right?

• 1:13:26Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:13:27Patrick Bet-David?

  What they did to most of these guys, now they're in there, right?

• 1:13:32Patrick Bet-David?

  What was it at the end for you? Did you, did you, I'm assuming you didn't vote for Trump in 2016 or 2020? Is that a fair assessment?

• 1:13:39Speaker 05

  I voted for him in 2020.

• 1:13:41Patrick Bet-David?

  You voted for him in 2020?

• 1:13:42Speaker 05

  2020 was very obvious what they were doing with the Covid to me.

• 1:13:45Patrick Bet-David?

  So when he lost, you voted for him then? And was, was?

• 1:13:49Speaker 05

  Well, did he lose?

• 1:13:50Patrick Bet-David?

  Well.

• 1:13:51Speaker 05

  I'm a believer, I'm a believer that they, that they rigged 2020.

• 1:13:53Patrick Bet-David?

  Oh, you're, you're from that camp?

• 1:13:55Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:13:56Patrick Bet-David?

  Are you there as well?

• 1:13:57Speaker 01

  I'm in the middle, I don't know. But there was a lot of, a lot of evidence on Sean's side.

• 1:14:04Speaker 05

  No, I think Rudy, I think Rudy had, had good instincts, but he didn't have, he didn't have the time, he didn't have the, he's not, his, his ex porte is not, he's, he's going after mafia, he's, you know, he sees the conspiracy, but he's not a election guy. When it comes to election fraud, there are certain ways of presenting and there's certain evidence, and I think that to this day, we know a lot of these things have been buried, right? Let's be honest, whether it was, it was certain districts, and if you can look at it very simply, you think 2020 wasn't a weird thing? Trump got 75 million votes in 2020, right? He won all the bellwethers. He easily won except for the five or six states, counties that's shut down for the night. And to me, that's, you know, I go back to 2000.

• 1:14:48Speaker 05

  I didn't like the 2000 election because I felt like, you know, this is weird, the, the Chads, right?

• 1:14:53Patrick Bet-David?

  Boj.

• 1:14:53Speaker 05

  It all takes us one county to throw a whole state, right? The same if you, if you, if you shut down elections and say, we're going to come back tomorrow, and then the next day, they get, you know, they basically have, they know exactly how many votes they needed to overcome Trump's lead in those five, six states. And that's the problem to me is when you stop counting and then come back the next day and, well, we got just enough to beat that lead, that's suspicious, right? Come on, you gotta say that doesn't add up to a logical person to say you would stop counting at any point, stop the observance, observance at any point, and, and then come back knowing how many points. It's like, it's like a football game where they say, we're gonna, two minutes to go, your team's up by two touchdowns, we're gonna come back tomorrow.

• 1:15:37Speaker 05

  And then you come back the next day and you go, yeah, we scored, uh, uh, three touchdowns last night.

• 1:15:43Speaker 05

  I didn't see it. Where was the observers? That's, that's my problem with the 2014 election.

• 1:15:49Patrick Bet-David?

  If your friends from 10 years ago, who were closest to you, hear you say something like that, would they say, yeah, Sean would say something like that?

• 1:15:58Speaker 05

  Sure.

• 1:15:59Patrick Bet-David?

  Or do you have anybody from 10 years ago that are like, Sean, stop it?

• 1:16:01Speaker 05

  You know, in 2004, a lot of people suspected that the machines were rigged against Kerry. There was articles written about that in Ohio. It was a very, very controversial state. Because people started questioning the voting machines back then. And many Democrats were the ones questioning it all the way through 2018. You've got, we've got video in the Giuliani episode of Kamala and all these people saying, you know, the voting machines right now, I can take you down there and show you how to hack these machines. So why is it in 2020, we couldn't question the voting machines anymore? Or the, or the issue of?

• 1:16:32Patrick Bet-David?

  How much you think this is going to backfire on the Democrats?

• 1:16:34Speaker 05

  But already did.

• 1:16:35Patrick Bet-David?

  Well, I mean, election for sure, but that's, that's one term, right? But do you think this is going to be the type of an event that happened with Barry Goldwater 6064? Where Democrats, Republicans lost the African-American vote for decades. And from 60, 64% of African-Americans voted Democrat.

• 1:16:55Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:16:56Patrick Bet-David?

  The rest were conservative or independent. Four years later, it went from 60 to 92%.

• 1:17:02Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:17:03Patrick Bet-David?

  Voting Democrat. And they got the black vote for 60 years. Do you think this was so monumental that Democrats may have had a blow to them that could last decades? Or you think it's just one term?

• 1:17:16Speaker 05

  I think Trump has the opportunity to create an historic presidency. I mean, the people around him, like we talk about Tulsi Gabbard in our series. We talk about Kash Patel, you talk about Bobby Kennedy, you know, and many others that are solid people with good instincts, right? That could transform our deep, they could, they could fundamentally drain the swamp.

• 1:17:36Speaker 05

  Now, it's not gonna be easy, but if they create the cultural shift, and I think it's there, a lot of people, that's why the red wave came in a way that even the popular vote won, people are sick of this system, right? But the elections are key to me, and it's not about Trump versus Kamala or anybody. If we don't have a clear, like a blockchain style of transparency when it comes to elections, that's what scares me the most, is that, you know, we get to this place where, you know, you can, you can rig machines, where you don't, you know, where you, you stop counting and say, we'll come back tomorrow, we need to get a clear way of doing an election where it's like a blockchain, where you can see the results, because I think there is suspicion, by the way, around some of the down ballot votes this year, to this day in some of the states, that, you know, there are questions.

• 1:18:19Speaker 05

  I think if you can have blockchain transparency, right, where it's like every vote is, is there, it's, it's accounted for, you can go and you can check your vote and you can see where it, that's what we need to have as, as a modern society, and all done in one day, not over the course of a week or three months of voting, I mean, it's just gotta be really clear and simple.

• 1:18:38Patrick Bet-David?

  You know who doesn't want that? Democrats don't want that.

• 1:18:40Speaker 05

  Oh, I know, but I'm saying, but now is the time to change it. If we don't change it, I'm very concerned about our freedom as a, as a, you know.

• 1:18:46Patrick Bet-David?

  Sean, would you consider yourself an independent or libertarian?

• 1:18:50Speaker 05

  I'm independent. I don't, I don't fall into any category. I consider myself a constitutional Republican. I like the constitutional United States, being a limited republic, being a limited federal government.

• 1:19:00Patrick Bet-David?

  You're a constitutional Republican?

• 1:19:01Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 1:19:02Patrick Bet-David?

  And, and Oliver, what would you say you are? Independent?

• 1:19:05Speaker 01

  Now, with the world shifting as it is, I'm certainly independent, but I'm leaning, I'm leaning back like my father to the Republican side, because I'm disgusted, disgusted with the Democrats, and, and their constant attack, actually, it's all their extremism of their attacks on Trump that have turned me off. The extremism of their attacks.

• 1:19:26Patrick Bet-David?

  Such as?

• 1:19:27Speaker 01

  Constant, what are you talking about? Everything he said was, is.

• 1:19:30Patrick Bet-David?

  I mean, I, I've seen it.

• 1:19:32Speaker 01

  In the newspapers, they say falsely, he, he falsely says, or he fall, they constantly give him an adjective, which is unfair. In other words, there's nothing objective written about him, and... I saw Sean's documentary. It's wonderful, actually. One of the most affecting chapters is the one on Giuliani, who I did not like. Giuliani had reached that place because of his rah rah patriotism in 2001. I thought it was disgusting. He was overboard. I really did. When he was most popular is when I hated him because I thought he was taking advantage of this thing. He was no longer a prosecutor. He was, he was an opportunist. And what happened was that he actually makes sense in this documentary.

• 1:20:15Speaker 01

  His whole position makes sense. He explains himself and it turned me around. I said, you know, I understand. And now the newspapers are attacking him constantly like some kind of fraud. That's when I appreciate what he went through. You understand? It's like I'm a contrarian, I guess you could say. But it's good to have contrarians in our society. We need them. And I admire Sean, who is my son, who's done this on his own. I have nothing to do with his thinking. He's read his own books. He's formed his own conclusions. I was very impressed with what he just said. He explained these elections in a very clear, logical way to me. And frankly, we've been interfering in Russia so many times.

• 1:20:57Speaker 01

  I mean, Hillary Clinton is known for that 2006 period, the 2014 election. They were all over Russia. And here we don't, we never judge ourselves. We always say that's the, the other side is doing this.

• 1:21:10Speaker 05

  We're known to rig elections. Like it's known the CIA has rigged elections abroad, right? We know that for a fact. So it's so hard. Why is it so difficult for us to file them? The CIA having rigged elections abroad?

• 1:21:21Speaker 01

  Why can't you do it here?

• 1:21:22Speaker 05

  Could be involved. And it's the same chicken, chicken come home to roost concept.

• 1:21:26Speaker 01

  Which raises, of course, the assassination attempts on Trump. I don't know, man. It's so strange.

• 1:21:29Patrick Bet-David?

  What do you think about it? Is there a part of you that's skeptical about it?

• 1:21:32Speaker 01

  You have to be disturbed by it. And there's still time to go, you know? Look at all the damage that Biden administration is doing to Trump right now. I mean, he's, they're putting them in the spot, you know? The problem is that they know Trump is, is a hothead and might, I think he's smarter now. I think he's a little bit. But he's got to consider this as a threat to him. They want him to go to, they want to go to war or some kind of war, they trap them. This, Israel is blowing up the Middle East, blowing it up. This is like, they're remaking the Middle East, they're taking the, that's what they said they'd do. Netanyahu vowed to do this and he's done it. Taking so many of these countries are out of commission now. And now Iran is the fucking next target of this guy, this madman.

• 1:22:16Speaker 01

  And we're in his pocket, we have no apparent say in what he's gonna do.

• 1:22:21Patrick Bet-David?

  Netanyahu?

• 1:22:22Speaker 01

  Yes, and AIPAC and all the Israeli mechanism that operates in the United States. Our vote, our congress means nothing. Netanyahu comes and addresses them three times, they stand up like dogs clapping for everything he says. Like dogs. It was disgusting, the most disgusting moment.

• 1:22:40Speaker 05

  There's a good, yeah, there's a good point that, you know, these wars in the Middle East, as Wesley Karp pointed out, it's basically the neocon agenda. And a lot of these neocons are dual Israeli citizens, right? And so it's like, who has benefited? We were with Shimon Peres when he said, "The Iraq war benefits us." You know, he said that during, I remember very clearly, he's like, "Secures our border against Saddam," right, on the Iraq side. The wars are all, you know, this, it's, as Jeffrey Sachs pointed out, this is all Israel's policy with the Middle East. It's almost like, we've basically said, "Okay, whatever Israel wants in the Middle East, we'll do." Up and including the Syria thing, which I'm curious your position. But in the series, we get into this, how much, as we know,

• 1:23:23Speaker 05

  we supported creating these Al Qaeda in Iraq and ISIS groups, right? Jihadists, which we did in Afghanistan, by the way, in the eighties. And we did, we've done it in Libya against Gaddafi, which was insane, right? And we did the same thing now with Syria, where again, you know, another terrorist group is now in charge. I mean, it's pretty wild to understand that we've been fomenting these jihad's against, going back to the days of Nasser, by the way. Actually, there's a long history, I think Devil's Crusade is a good book on the topic, about CIA sponsorship of Muslim Brotherhood types and others, against any nationalist, any Arab nationalist. And who, and who does that ultimately benefit, unfortunately, is Israel. Because Israel hated Nasser, right? An Arab nationalist? It's not from the American perspective of benefiting us.

• 1:24:08Patrick Bet-David?

  Why do you think they're able to do that? Why do you think they're able to do that? Because the part about the dual citizenship, when you ask somebody who is... Pro-Israel Zionist, they'll say, "The reason why we have the dual citizenship is because when Israel became a country, they want a lot of Americans to go back, but they didn't want to give up their US citizenship, so they made it where you could have dual citizenship." So that's the argument for that, they'll say, right?

• 1:24:31Speaker 05

  We have dual citizenship with France. I mean, I don't think there's an issue with dual citizenship. The problem is that the loyalty that we find tends to be a Zionist approach. And Israel itself is not, to me, it's like, I don't say there's anything issue with Israel's existence, but the Zionist position is oftentimes greater Israel, and it's oftentimes extreme.

• 1:24:50Patrick Bet-David?

  What, what, because in order to be able to do that, okay? So, you're in a space where, you know, the controversy came out about Harvey, right? In Hollywood, Harvey Weinstein. And for the longest time, you saw pictures of Michelle Obama, you know, "Harvey Weinstein is such a," you know, I don't know if you have this clip or not, Rob, "He's such a wonderful, you know, beacon of," I mean, she would use some words that you talk about, "A Billy Graham type," right? Is that the one, Rob? Can you play this clip, you know? Uh, uh, go back and play the clip.

• 1:25:29Speaker 00

  Thanking Harvey Weinstein for organizing this amazing day.

• 1:25:39Patrick Bet-David?

  Low, low to the drop.

• 1:25:42Speaker 00

  This is possible because of Harvey. Uh, he is a wonderful human being, a good friend, and just a powerhouse. And the fact that he and his team took the time to make this happen for all of you should say something, not about me or about this place.

• 1:25:58Patrick Bet-David?

  You see, you see this, right? You see Oprah, you see all these guys in Hollywood, Hillary, Hillary, all of these guys that would say stuff about, you know, Harvey Weinstein, "Well, what a frickin', you know, great guy," and then all of a sudden, "Why are people saying all this stuff? What control does he have over everybody?" "You want a job in Hollywood? You want a job in this? You gotta go, no, no, no, no, no," and then disruption shows up. "Oh, shit, now everybody wants to throw him under the bus." What happened to those 30 years you said nothing about?

• 1:26:23Speaker 05

  Sure.

• 1:26:24Patrick Bet-David?

  What happened? Because he had power and control, so this is where I'm going with it. He had leverage. The leverage was, "If you want a job, you gotta do X, Y, Z." For me, and I'm a boss, okay? I'm not in the world, I've read about it, just like what everybody else has read about.

• 1:26:40Patrick Bet-David?

  If Israel is Israel, AIPAC, all of these guys, right? And, you know, Saks, the interview that was done with Tucker, you know, that, there's many of these right now that are coming up. If they have this much power, what leverage do they have to be able to constantly negotiate more favorably for themselves over the American people?

• 1:27:05Speaker 05

  I think, um...

• 1:27:07Patrick Bet-David?

  You know the question I'm asking?

• 1:27:08Speaker 05

  You have to think about it as a... It's like a club in a way, right? And the amount of financial influence, the amount of, think about the banking side of things. Think about the, the infrastructure of banking. A lot of this does connect to Judaism. And it's not to say that, you know, that they're bad people, but essentially, yes, there is a deep, deep, deep love and loyalty to Israel. It's interesting because we could be Israeli citizens, based on our ancestry. Our ancestry of Lu Stone is not Zionist. Our ancestry is much more cosmopolitan. And this kind of goes to the heart of a lot of the issues, I think, at the beginning of Zionism.

• 1:27:52Speaker 05

  Where the, where the cosmopolitan Jews who said, "We want to assimilate into the cultures," right? Of Germany, of, of Europe, of, of America. And those who said, "We want a nation, a land." And I think that there is a psychological factor to Jewish people basically saying, "You have to give to Israel. You have to be part of Israel. You have to, that's your nation."

• 1:28:12Patrick Bet-David?

  When did that happen, though?

• 1:28:13Speaker 05

  That starts in the Zionist phase of the late, but it picks up after World War I.

• 1:28:17Patrick Bet-David?

  Late, what were you gonna say, late?

• 1:28:18Speaker 05

  Well, late 1900s is the birth, right? But then it picks up after World War I, but not really. It becomes, remember, the Zionists made deals with Nazis. The Zionists actually said Hitler was a good thing because they made a deal, the various agreements, to start to move Jews because they wanted to take Palestine. At the time, Palestine was mostly Arab, right? So they knew they were a small population. They had to bring more, more Jews in from Europe. And so, I hate to say it, but the Holocaust, they used that Holocaust to basically say, "We can now create a state." And that was obviously the energy that was given by Russia and America and all the UN countries to say, "Israel can have a state."

• 1:28:58Patrick Bet-David?

  And by the way, you know what I'll say to that? So, so here's, here's, I trust my enemies very well.

• 1:29:05Patrick Bet-David?

  By the way, I trust my enemies more than I trust my friends sometimes. You know why? Because what does your enemy think about next movie coming up? I don't know the competitive space. I'm assuming there's competition with your name and, you know, all these other guys that are making movies, right? I'm assuming the competition, if they can find a way to have seventy-five hundred negative reviews written on Rotten Tomatoes about a movie you come out with, I'm assuming the dirty enemy would probably do something like that to hurt you, right? I'm assuming the enemy would do whatever they can that I'm trying to raise a billion dollars from somebody or half a billion dollars from somebody to find a way for that deal to not get done if it becomes public, right? I've experienced this with guys.

• 1:29:47Patrick Bet-David?

  When I was trying to sell my company, the enemy would call the guy that wanted to buy the company and say, hey, you sure you want to go through this? And then boom, we were able to get the deal done and we sold it for a quarter of a billion dollars, okay? But I know, I trust the enemy. All I'm trying to ask, I'm not surprised that Israel did that. Good for them that they're doing that. I applaud you for being a good negotiator, great. But all I'm asking is, if America, you read these books, you know, and we've all read these books. When you go through the book, the question I want to ask is, what leverage do they have for America to continue to cave when negotiating? We also want this, and this, and that, and this, okay, okay. That's not how negotiation works.

• 1:30:32Patrick Bet-David?

  Like we're earlier, we're talking about when you're signing a talent, right? Hey, I want six massages a day. I want my gym to be here, I want that, I want this. No, at some point, like, we're not doing that. But what leverage does this person have for you to say yes to eighty percent of their requests? What are we getting in exchange to say yes to this? And no matter how many people I ask that question of.

• 1:30:53Speaker 05

  Well, I think there's a couple of factors. As I mentioned, financial, I think you do have a lot of Jewish banking. We know that, that's historical, that's they're deeply tied into the banking system, including to the, you know, the Federal Reserve. I mean, you look at even in Europe, the Rothschilds were the ones that got the letter from Balfour. I mean, the Rothschild, obviously, are a very wealthy influential family, right? And that's not the only one, there is the war. Bergs and others that were very influential in building our Federal Reserve system here. So Schiff and all these families. So again, you're talking money, but you're also talking about a base. From strategic perspective, I think that the US and British saw Israel as a base into the Arab world, which I call Israel the last Crusader, the Crusader Kingdom. Because remember, as you know, historically, we fought the West.

• 1:31:38Speaker 05

  The Catholic Church, you know, sent crusaders out to try to recapture Jerusalem in 1095. And they did, and then they got kicked out a couple hundred years later, right? But they never forgave that. So I think that the Catholics and the West psychologically and militarily and historically actually see Israel as the Crusader Kingdom that gives them a foothold into the Middle East. So this is a thousand-year war, and that's actually also how a lot of the Arabs see it, which is why people get caught up on the Jewish thing and they miss the point of the Arabs looking at it as the West trying to have a Crusader Kingdom called Israel in the Middle East. And as we know, most of the Jews that are there are from Europe, right? They're from, you know, whether they're Khazarian or whatnot.

• 1:32:23Speaker 05

  So they're not from that land, at least maybe they were thousands of years ago, maybe they weren't. But the point is that this is an issue in the psychology of the Arab world, that the Crusades coming back to haunt them. I think that's a big issue and people don't look at it that way because they think of it as Jewish versus Muslim. And I think it's much deeper because as you know, the Jews and Muslims have gotten along. The Jews used to go to the Muslim countries when they were persecuted by the Catholics. When they were persecuted in Spain, the Jews and Muslims both were persecuted in Spain and kicked out, right, by Ferdinand and Isabel in 1495, right? When, 1492, when Columbus was sailing, they kicked the Jews and the Muslims out of Spain at that time. They kicked them out of, as you know, across Europe, many times they purged them. They would go to Muslim countries, Jews would.

• 1:33:09Speaker 05

  And they all lived together side by side in Palestine and obviously in Turkey and other countries. So it wasn't a Jewish-Muslim thing. I think this is a West versus East thing, very much.

• 1:33:21Patrick Bet-David?

  I don't know if I disagree with that. Bravo. But I think the question I ask is... The leverage, what leverage you'd have, is it just money? Is it really just money?

• 1:33:32Speaker 01

  But it's AIPAC, you don't even mention AIPAC.

• 1:33:35Patrick Bet-David?

  But even if you go with that, right, and you look at how much AIPAC gives, for example, okay? And again, I'm just playing devil's advocate here to get to the bottom of the argument. Yeah, and I enjoyed that, I think that's the right way to be. But think about Elon Musk, right? Okay, so how much did AIPAC give? Total contribution 2024? Can you pull that up, Rob? I actually don't know the number. This is according to Open Secrets. So pro-Israel, is this AIPAC? Two Republicans, they gave 2.2 million, two Democrats, they gave 2.2 million. Okay, so total 4.4 million and they gave it to pro-Israel PAC candidates.

• 1:34:17Patrick Bet-David?

  So they give $29,000 more to Republicans than Democrats, not a big difference. But can you tell me, look up total, how much money AIPAC gave to everybody last year? Total money AIPAC gave, okay? In 2024? In 2024, yeah, just typing in 2024. I actually just want to know, I guess you pulled the first one out, it's the same number? Really, so the number is how much? Okay, they give 2.4 million in lobbying. The amount of contribution they got was $43 million, okay? That's AIPAC. By the way, I thought the number was in the billions.

• 1:35:01Patrick Bet-David?

  So $43 million. Can you go type in how much Elon Musk gave Donald Trump to a PAC?

• 1:35:08Speaker 01

  Does this include the PAC expenditures, or is a PAC excluded from that?

• 1:35:13Patrick Bet-David?

  So watch this, Elon Musk spends $277 million to back Trump and Republican candidates. Realistically, one could say that's fifty times more, right? Fifty-five times more. So again, for me, I, I really, I really wanna know.

• 1:35:34Speaker 01

  You're ignoring the concept of influence and how long AIPAC has been around.

• 1:35:38Patrick Bet-David?

  I don't think it's the right number you're pulling up because I think, Rob, they spent

• 1:35:42Speaker 01

  On PACs.

• 1:35:42Patrick Bet-David?

  Twenty-five million dollars to get rid of Bowman. So that's why I don't think that's the right number. They type in, how much did AIPAC spend to get rid of Bowman? Can you just Google that? Go for it.

• 1:35:51Speaker 01

  There you go. PACs private. I mean, we don't know the numbers on the PACs.

• 1:35:55Patrick Bet-David?

  Well, the NGOs are the ones, uh, uh, that we don't know who the contributors are, right? The NGOs which, okay, there it is, that one right there. AIPAC has sent, spent over a hundred million dollars on twenty twenty-four elections. That's the number I wanna see. So, very bad sign for democracy. AIPAC has spent over a hundred million dollars. AIPAC billionaire funded, Super PAC has helped defeat two of the most vocal opponents of Israel, which one of them was, uh, um, yeah, Jamal Bowman. And they spent a lot of money to get rid of that guy. How much was it to, to get rid of him? Can you pull up that number? I don't know why I think it was twenty-five million dollars. Could have been a little bit more than that. But, but the reason why I'm making this argument is, I'm making the argument to say,

• 1:36:38Patrick Bet-David?

  some may not say anything about Elon because maybe Elon is supporting what you support. Right? It's like, okay, hey, great. And by the way, I'm pro Elon. I, I like what Elon is doing. But, all I'm trying to say is, you know, I get the, the frustration with the Israeli, I, I lived in Iran. So I have my own story with Muslims. I saw what that was like. And I witnessed it. Every day, eleven years, I went to Germany, lived at a refugee camp. There's a lot of Muslims there. A lot of them, Pakistani, Afghans, a lot of them, okay? I saw what happened there. Um, I've had an insurance company I built from zero to sixty thousand agents. We have a lot of Muslims in the company. Guess what? Phenomenal experience. I had the experience there. So, it, but it's not a hundred percent across the board with everybody, right?

• 1:37:23Patrick Bet-David?

  America's thirteen percent black, our agency was twenty-four percent black. America's twenty-four percent Hispanic, our agency was fifty-one percent Hispanic, that we, when we build the insurance agency. And I got a chance to watch these guys because we're in fifty states. But sometimes, you know, it's, it's.

• 1:37:40Patrick Bet-David?

  It can go in a direction where I just wanna know, what is their leverage? Is the leverage holding people hostage? Is the leverage like, I wrote a book, fiction book called The Academy. And The Academy is about a secret society that's been around for a couple thousand years that they recruit young kids and they build them into the future leaders at war. Many presidents, many have gone through this, you know, secret society called The Academy. And one of the stories in there is about the villain is a former deputy director of Savak in Iran under the Shah. Who left early and he was working with the Shah. Uh, his name is, uh, uh, Parviz Sabhdi. I think if you can look him up, it's a very common American name, Rob. You should be able to spell that out easily.

• 1:38:24Patrick Bet-David?

  And this deputy director of Savak, who ends up, you know, having some of the qualities of the villain, eventually finds me. Okay? And he reaches out to me, says, um, you wrote a book? Said, yes. Um, he reads the book, uh, type in P A R V I Z. And then P R V I Z. Rob, P A R V I Z, right there. Okay. So this is him. He was a former deputy director of Savak. And, um, you know, you watch documentaries on him and what the Savak did in Iran.

• 1:39:01Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:39:02Patrick Bet-David?

  You know, these guys had, well, some of it is awful, but some of it is, you know, where they were the CIA, the Mossad, the, you know, so all of it can be said awful. CIA, Mossad, you know, Savak, MI6.

• 1:39:17Speaker 05

  They were all training them too, the Mossad and CIA.

• 1:39:19Patrick Bet-David?

  So we can say all of them are awful, right? They've all been trained by, and then you hear what he was able to record with Molas and Hezbollahs.

• 1:39:27Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:39:28Patrick Bet-David?

  Who were these clergy and then he would get stuff with women. And so he had this footage on them, right? And that's a form of hostage.

• 1:39:35Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:39:35Patrick Bet-David?

  You better say this or else.

• 1:39:37Speaker 05

  Right.

• 1:39:37Patrick Bet-David?

  I'm trying to find out, is there anything Israel has as a leverage? I'm not just saying black men, that's one of the forms.

• 1:39:44Speaker 05

  Epstein was apparently Mossad and CIA, right?

• 1:39:47Patrick Bet-David?

  I had his brother on our podcast for a few hours, yeah.

• 1:39:49Speaker 05

  Did he, does he, does he think that he was both?

• 1:39:52Patrick Bet-David?

  I asked him, he was very gray and he was uncomfortable answering that. We did a two hour podcast. He did tell me that he had a mentor. Who's the mentor that he talked about, about Epstein? Do you remember the mentor he brought up? He talked about a mentor that taught Epstein everything. And then when I brought it up, he got very, very uncomfortable very quickly. That guy right there, Stephen Hoffenberg. I don't know if you've ever heard of this guy or not.

• 1:40:17Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:40:18Patrick Bet-David?

  Um, Clemmie Rigginwood on 400, yeah, he helped. You know, he was one of the guys that apparently played a role of a mentor. But there was a, there was another guy as well, Rob. Yeah, Epstein's mentor, right there.

• 1:40:30Speaker 05

  Found dead.

• 1:40:31Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah. What are you, what are you reading that?

• 1:40:34Speaker 05

  He's found, he was found dead in his apartment.

• 1:40:36Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, he was found dead. Jeffrey Epstein convicted fraudster, found dead in his apartment. But meaning he, he learned his model. So on the Epstein side, Mark never told me anything about Mossad. I, I asked him, I said, were you also Mossad himself? He was uncomfortable answering that directly.

• 1:40:51Speaker 05

  Sure, sure.

• 1:40:51Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah. I wouldn't be surprised.

• 1:40:53Speaker 05

  No.

• 1:40:54Patrick Bet-David?

  But that's the question.

• 1:40:55Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:40:55Patrick Bet-David?

  My biggest question is the leverage. What did they have? There, there's no way, did they have it on Congress so many times?

• 1:41:05Speaker 05

  I think it's both. I mean, it's, it's, it's.

• 1:41:07Speaker 01

  The threat of saying you were gonna campaign against you, that's just enough.

• 1:41:11Speaker 05

  Exactly. It's both private and public. I mean, look at, we just saw the Jeff Sachs interview today. All these newspapers are saying Jeffrey Sands is anti Semitic conspiracy theories for saying that Israel's basically foreign policy is what we're running in the Middle East, which is pretty evident. I don't think that's, that's anti Semitic to say that.

• 1:41:29Patrick Bet-David?

  I don't think that's anything bad to say.

• 1:41:31Speaker 05

  Right.

• 1:41:32Patrick Bet-David?

  I think go research it and investigate it. I mean, March 2022, when you were here and Ukraine had happened, when did Russia, Ukraine happen? A month prior to that, February? And if you remember, you were uncomfortable. Like, you know, at first you're like, ah. And you and I were both a little bit skeptical about Zelensky and Ukraine. And at that time, when you said it, everybody's like, oh, my God. You know, how could you say that? The dictator Putin is the next Hitler. This Oliver Stone is so out of touch and all this other stuff.

• 1:41:59Speaker 05

  The ghost of Kiev was still riding high. And then that was a CIA story, remember?

• 1:42:03Patrick Bet-David?

  Right.

• 1:42:04Speaker 05

  And all these different things, you know, Zelensky calling and saying.

• 1:42:06Patrick Bet-David?

  Documentary you did was just insane.

• 1:42:08Speaker 01

  Ukraine on Fire.

• 1:42:09Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, Ukraine on Fire was phenomenal.

• 1:42:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, I learned a lot because we actually paid attention to Ukraine. After the Putin interviews, that helped me. He said to me, I, I said, what's the big deal about Ukraine? You know, I thought it was like another Eastern European country that gone to NATO. He said, "For you, it's not a big deal. For us, it's a very big deal." He says that on the tape. And I think I finally understood the importance of Ukraine because they've been invaded twice through the underbelly, through Ukraine, twice by Poland. And they were invaded by Napoleon, they were invaded by the Woodrow Wilson set troops. Sixteen armies fought against the Bolshevik revolution. Sixteen armies led by Britain and the United States.

• 1:42:53Speaker 01

  France, Poland, Poland sent a huge amount of men to.

• 1:42:57Patrick Bet-David?

  You met a lot of people, right? World leaders. You met Putin.

• 1:43:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:43:01Patrick Bet-David?

  You met Maduro, I think.

• 1:43:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, Maduro, yeah.

• 1:43:03Patrick Bet-David?

  You met Chavez, Lula, Castro, Netanyahu. Which one of them?

• 1:43:09Speaker 01

  Shimon Peres and Netanyahu. Yeah, you're right.

• 1:43:11Patrick Bet-David?

  Which one of them that after you spent time with them walked away? You had a bad impression of them first, but later on you're like, "Well, now what? I don't have a bad impression." Which one of them were you like, "Oh, I was neutral, but I walked away saying, 'I don't know if I like this guy.'"

• 1:43:27Speaker 01

  Netanyahu. Netanyahu, yeah.

• 1:43:30Patrick Bet-David?

  You what?

• 1:43:31Speaker 01

  I thought he was a mad, he was very extreme back in 2002 or... He was going on, and then the bomb went off as we was talking to us. It's in the film. It's called...

• 1:43:41Speaker 05

  Persona non grata.

• 1:43:42Speaker 01

  What?

• 1:43:43Speaker 05

  Persona non grata.

• 1:43:44Speaker 01

  Persona non grata. Yeah, because in the, he goes over to the window, he says, "Look, that's..." And he's right. There was a bomb that was going off in a grocery store. So he was like very concerned, but he had suffered greatly because his brother, John and Johann, was killed in the raid in...

• 1:44:01Speaker 05

  Uganda, wasn't it? Uganda raid against...

• 1:44:03Speaker 01

  They made a movie about it. What was it called?

• 1:44:05Speaker 05

  Yeah, I don't remember the film.

• 1:44:06Speaker 01

  Yeah. The Uganda, the dictator of Uganda had taken hostages and the Israelis went in with a commando attack and they succeeded and they made two movies about it. One with Charles Bronson. It was wonderful. But his brother was the only one killed in that raid from the Israeli side. He was killed at the very end. So he was a hero in Israel. There was a lot of vengeance. Personal hatred of the Muslim. I felt that with him, that he did not trust them at all. And I felt that it was echoed by, but other people like Rabin and I also Perez. Shimon was saying, you know, we have to get along, always.

• 1:44:50Speaker 01

  That was his, but at the same time, he also said, you cannot trust the Arabs. Because what they write, what their handwriting, the way they write is very flowery and it doesn't, it's not objective like scientific. That's his interpretation. It was an interesting viewpoint. Even Shimon, who was as humanitarian a person as I know, had distrust of the Arabs. And that's, it's fundamental. My wife, my first wife was Lebanese, so I felt differently. I liked them. I was spent time in Lebanon before the war, seventy-five. So I have no problem. And like Sean says, it's, I feel like it's closer to the crusades than it is to a religious issue.

• 1:45:35Patrick Bet-David?

  So Netanyahu.

• 1:45:37Speaker 01

  East, west.

• 1:45:38Patrick Bet-David?

  Netanyahu was the only one that you walked away.

• 1:45:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, he was dangerous. He was, because he had such passion, such passion. And he had a desire. He was young and strong and amazing stamina. Look at this. He's lasted like twenty, like Putin, he's lasted twenty-three some years and in business like this. And he, look what he's done, though. He's taking this closer to nuclear and the nuclear winter than ever. There is no other person alive that is as dangerous. He's lobbied actively for a war against Iran, which is going to be a war, not just against Iran, it's going to be a war against China, it's going to be a war against Russia. It's a very dangerous man. I mean, Syria, he's gloating, he's gloating over Syria, but that's not over. It's going to come back and haunt him.

• 1:46:24Speaker 01

  This thing is so ugly, it's gotten out of hand. And that's because of us supporting Israel blindly, without ever questioning them. Kennedy questioned them. That was the whole point that, you know, Kennedy said, this nuclear thing is going to stop. He said, we're not going to give them nuclear, nuclear weapons. And he, he was adamant about it and he was going to stop it. When Johnson took over after the assassination, Johnson turned a blind eye to it. When we knew for sure that they had a weapon in 67, Johnson made sure they didn't announce it. Pentagon did not announce it.

• 1:46:59Speaker 05

  What do you think also about, you know, this policy shift? It wasn't like it was always adamantly whatever Israel wants until 2001. That's when the neocons take over. That's when the 9/11 justifies all these wars in the Middle East, so-called justifies. Obviously, what did it do? Did it bring benefit to the American people? Did it stabilize anything? No, we destabilized that region. But as I said, it's been all Israel policy and mostly Netanyahu policy. And Netanyahu is closer to Hamas. I mean, that's what's really curious, you know, when you look at the history that, as you know, Netanyahu and company hated Arafat, right? So they, back in the 80s, they actually allowed Hamas to grow.

• 1:47:39Speaker 05

  That's now known, that Israel was essentially allowing Hamas to grow into this beast because it played off against Arafat's, you know, PLO and those guys, Pata and those guys. So they used that. And I think that's what's so curious is that Hamas is almost, it truly is Netanyahu's best weapon. I mean, at the moment that he was being indicted in the Supreme Court, I think there's a new documentary about Bibi's file, I think it's called.

• 1:48:08Speaker 01

  Bibi's file.

• 1:48:09Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's being nominated for Best Picture, exposing all this corruption that he was in charge with. He was gone. And then October 7th comes and it justifies everything. It's like these moments, you know, that justify wars, you know. Very much provocative.

• 1:48:23Speaker 01

  You should study that.

• 1:48:24Patrick Bet-David?

  The Bibi files?

• 1:48:26Speaker 05

  The Bibi files, I think.

• 1:48:27Speaker 01

  Well, it came at that very strange moment when he's about to go. Remember how close he came to being evicted?

• 1:48:33Patrick Bet-David?

  So the angle you're taking with him is the moment you realize what happened to his brother in Uganda, which was the only one you're saying that died, from that moment on, this went from being...

• 1:48:48Patrick Bet-David?

  You know, just a job or a career that I'm gonna do because I love Israel to

• 1:48:52Speaker 01

  Personal passion.

• 1:48:53Patrick Bet-David?

  A personal passion, crusade, cause, correcting an injustice.

• 1:48:57Speaker 05

  Well, we didn't know him before, so you can't say what he was.

• 1:48:59Speaker 01

  Well, I knew him at that point.

• 1:49:00Speaker 05

  But I'm saying, but before, and he was a, you know, those guys were true believers from the beginning, but he, you know, people say he was part of killing Rabin. He created that atmosphere, if nothing else, Netanyahu did. Remember when Rabin was killed? Netanyahu was playing up that atmosphere.

• 1:49:15Patrick Bet-David?

  So Yontan was an Israeli military, commanded Sayret, Matkal during the

• 1:49:21Speaker 01

  He's a Harvard graduate, I think.

• 1:49:23Patrick Bet-David?

  Was he Harvard graduate?

• 1:49:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, I briefly attended.

• 1:49:26Patrick Bet-David?

  United States.

• 1:49:28Speaker 01

  He was a real hero.

• 1:49:29Patrick Bet-David?

  After serving in the Israeli military during the six day war, he briefly attended Harvard University before Trasven Hebrew University Jerusalem nineteen six zero after he was studied, returned to military in Israel. So what year did he die? Seventy-six? Is this his older brother?

• 1:49:43Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:49:43Patrick Bet-David?

  This is his older brother?

• 1:49:44Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:49:45Patrick Bet-David?

  How many years apart are they? Can you check to see when Bibi was born? Cause he's forty-six. I don't think Bibi's into, okay. So three years older. Got it. Interesting. And this has been a commitment he's made to his brother, to seek his vengeance. Is that kinda how you process it?

• 1:50:04Speaker 01

  Is the origin of this passion?

• 1:50:07Patrick Bet-David?

  Don't you think for somebody to get to that level of power, you almost need something like this, like to, to get to that level? I mean, look at Trump. He doesn't drink any alcohol. Why not? You know the story with the brother Fred, right? We hear those stories, right?

• 1:50:24Speaker 01

  Although it was a decision before.

• 1:50:26Patrick Bet-David?

  It was a decision before. You're right, because he told him, look, listen to me. Never drink alcohol. Never drink alcohol. And he finally, he's like, I'm not gonna do it. And he tells his kids.

• 1:50:34Speaker 01

  Did you learn that from Roy Cohn? I don't know if Roy Cohn was taught him.

• 1:50:39Speaker 05

  Roy was a drinker, remember in the movie?

• 1:50:40Patrick Bet-David?

  Did you watch The Apprentice?

• 1:50:41Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:50:42Patrick Bet-David?

  What'd you think about it?

• 1:50:43Speaker 01

  I saw it twice.

• 1:50:44Patrick Bet-David?

  Me too. I saw it twice in the first week.

• 1:50:46Speaker 01

  I much enjoyed it. I'm very well done.

• 1:50:50Patrick Bet-David?

  What was your impression?

• 1:50:51Speaker 01

  I didn't walk away thinking that Trump was the monster of all time. That was part of that whole campaign. That's why the Democrats overdid it. They overdid everything on Trump.

• 1:51:01Patrick Bet-David?

  The movie flapped, I don't know why.

• 1:51:02Speaker 01

  I always said to you, if you remember correctly, I said the worst president that we've ever had was George Bush, George H. W., George W. Bush. And I told you why. Because he started the whole war on terror. And I said, what's Trump compared to that? You know, why are the Democrats having this hysteria about derangement? And no one paid attention. But wait until this thing is cleared. If we ever get through it, we're gonna have to look back at that period from 2001.

• 1:51:28Patrick Bet-David?

  How do you think?

• 1:51:29Speaker 01

  And that phony election with the Chads and all that. That was the worst moment for me in this century. I remember that night so well, when I was going south with his Scalia jumping in on the Florida thing and saying, we have to, we have, there's an irregularity here. And then they suspended the recount, remember?

• 1:51:47Patrick Bet-David?

  You wanted gore at that time?

• 1:51:49Speaker 01

  I did want gore, yes.

• 1:51:52Speaker 01

  And I think it was a key election. That was the whole century turned on it in a way. It was a strange date. It was one of those things like the McKinley election in 1900.

• 1:52:01Patrick Bet-David?

  How different you think the relationship's gonna be? When you're saying Kennedy and Israel, how do you think the relationship's gonna be?

• 1:52:07Speaker 01

  Kennedy was monitoring them and saying, what are they doing?

• 1:52:10Patrick Bet-David?

  I get that, I'm just saying.

• 1:52:12Speaker 01

  We're not allowing them to be the power in the Middle East.

• 1:52:15Patrick Bet-David?

  How do you think it's gonna be with Trump?

• 1:52:17Speaker 01

  I'm worried about that part of it the most. Because I like the possibility. Trump could be, as Sean said, a crusading president. He could be really a change against war. He could move away from all these policies. But his commitment to Israel is insane. Because it's wholehearted, and he has no modification on it. And he doesn't understand the Arab position. He doesn't understand history, frankly. I wish Sean could spend some time with him.

• 1:52:44Speaker 05

  Well, his daughter's husband's father is Lebanese, right? They've got, isn't he the new coordinator for some of these affairs?

• 1:52:52Speaker 01

  Well, that'd be nice, but the Adelson money is huge, isn't it?

• 1:52:56Speaker 05

  But I do think, you know, I feel that if anyone can negotiate peace, I don't think that Trump likes Netanyahu. I think he has to remember that Netanyahu was the first person to call Joe Biden in 2021, or 2020, and congratulate him.

• 1:53:08Speaker 01

  He won't forget that.

• 1:53:09Speaker 05

  I don't think Trump forgets that. I think Trump doesn't, I don't think Trump likes Netanyahu. I think that he will, if anyone can bring peace, it is Trump. Because he has to factor the Saudi position. The Saudis have gotten closer to Iran. It's not, it's not what it was years ago. They're actually making peace. Their bricks are here. I think he has to realize that this escalation would lead to World War III. He has to see that now. And so if anyone can start to work out a deal to say, okay, how can we accommodate the Palestinians? Give them some livelihood, give them some economy. It's got, I mean, Trump's got to understand that's the only future. He knows that. He knows, you know, you just, you start bombing things, you start destroying. It ruins economies, it ruins cultures. He has to see the path forward now is going to be negotiating with the neighbors, getting them involved.

• 1:53:54Speaker 01

  Well, this is a key moment then in history, isn't it?

• 1:53:57Patrick Bet-David?

  But I, but I don't think, here's my impression of Trump. I was on Jesse Waters two nights ago. And I said, you know what happens when you're handsome, rich, and met every famous celebrity in the world? You know what edge you have? One, no girl can sway you because you've been around beautiful women your entire life. Number two, there's nothing you can give him financially for him to be, ooh, oh my God, what a great painting, all this, nothing. So you can't buy him. And number three is, he's not enamored by anybody. There is no celebrity he's going to meet where he's going to be like, oh my God, I can't believe I'm...

• 1:54:40Speaker 01

  Then give him the Nobel Peace Prize.

• 1:54:42Patrick Bet-David?

  Well, I think, but, but I think after he does what he does...

• 1:54:46Speaker 01

  But don't give it to him like Obama prematurely.

• 1:54:50Patrick Bet-David?

  And, but I think one thing with him... Every single time I've heard him talk about Netanyahu, it's always the we'll see. And that's key.

• 1:55:02Speaker 01

  I hope so.

• 1:55:02Patrick Bet-David?

  Because we'll see is the pressures on who? You.

• 1:55:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:55:08Patrick Bet-David?

  Bibi, meaning you can't try to abuse this relationship.

• 1:55:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:55:11Patrick Bet-David?

  We'll see.

• 1:55:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:55:13Patrick Bet-David?

  We'll see what you're gonna be doing.

• 1:55:14Speaker 01

  He delivered Syria.

• 1:55:15Patrick Bet-David?

  That's right. Well, but that's.

• 1:55:17Speaker 01

  And Biden.

• 1:55:18Patrick Bet-David?

  Right, that's not under his watch. That's under vice.

• 1:55:20Speaker 01

  I wonder, yeah, it's a very key moment.

• 1:55:24Patrick Bet-David?

  Well, I, again, it goes back to seeing, if there's one thing we learned from Trump in first term, he's not a guy that likes war. He's just not a fan of it. And how many people, he said the other day in an interview, after winning, he's spoken personally. Did you hear how many world leaders he said he's spoken to? He said he's spoken over a hundred world leaders already. World leaders. This is not Jamie Dimon. This is not billionaires. This is not Jeff Bezos. This is not Tim Cook. Although he's met with them as well. And look at Trudeau, Canada. All of a sudden, you're getting stories about the fact that he may be stepping down and resigning and all this stuff?

• 1:56:02Speaker 01

  That was interesting, as well as, don't forget Venezuela, which, of course, has a lot of oil.

• 1:56:08Patrick Bet-David?

  What is, you, you've said some good things about Maduro sometimes.

• 1:56:12Speaker 01

  I said good things about Chavez. Yes.

• 1:56:15Patrick Bet-David?

  Why Maduro though? What, what?

• 1:56:16Speaker 01

  I don't know Maduro. I met him a few times with, with Hugo. Listen, I'm, again, it's, I told you earlier, the Democrats were so hysterical about Trump that I, it turned, turned me off. If you look at how hysterical the United States has been on Maduro and the Venezuelan revolution.

• 1:56:36Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:37Speaker 01

  It turns me off because we lied, cheated, put other people into, called them president. We played every dirty trick on Venezuela we can, starving them, suffering them. And they've withstood this as best as they could. And for that, they're the underdog, man. They're the revolutionaries in this case. Believe it or not, yes, they're not a tyranny because they, people can leave, they leave all the time.

• 1:56:59Patrick Bet-David?

  You don't think Maduro's a tyranny?

• 1:57:00Speaker 01

  No, because they can leave whenever they want. They can walk across. The border, they, those people are there because there is a Bolivarian revolution.

• 1:57:07Patrick Bet-David?

  He has destroyed so many people's lives in.

• 1:57:10Speaker 01

  And how many people did they make? I mean, you have to go back to the beginnings when he educated that population. He gave them a life. They didn't have a life.

• 1:57:18Patrick Bet-David?

  See, that's the part all over like they, see, that's why you're unique.

• 1:57:21Speaker 01

  You don't pay attention to ninety-eight, ninety-nine.

• 1:57:26Patrick Bet-David?

  No, the reason why you're unique, the, the reason why you're unique and it's tough to um

• 1:57:33Patrick Bet-David?

  put you in a place is one minute, you'll say one thing.

• 1:57:38Speaker 01

  No, I'm for the people.

• 1:57:40Patrick Bet-David?

  I know, but what I'm saying is this guy's not for, for his people. This guy's not for his people, what do you, what do you, you know, when you, when you see what.

• 1:57:45Speaker 01

  Not the man I met.

• 1:57:46Patrick Bet-David?

  The inflation, lifestyle.

• 1:57:49Speaker 01

  The inflation has a lot to do with the United States too, the lifestyle, I don't know.

• 1:57:53Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, but, but the, it has to be United States, when you're saying we put the sanctions on buying oil and doing all of that stuff, is that?

• 1:57:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, and all the dirty tricks that go on with that.

• 1:58:01Patrick Bet-David?

  I mean, he just lost the election to.

• 1:58:03Speaker 01

  How do you know? That's America's interpretation of it.

• 1:58:06Patrick Bet-David?

  Not necessarily, that's the uh, his interpretation is the fact that he won fifty-one point two percent or something like that.

• 1:58:15Speaker 01

  You know who the other candidate was?

• 1:58:16Patrick Bet-David?

  Mario Corino Machado?

• 1:58:17Speaker 01

  A right wing, right wing lady, she's pretty wild. She's pretty much the old way. She's very clear distinction going back to the old Venezuela. There's no hope there.

• 1:58:27Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, I had her on the podcast.

• 1:58:29Speaker 01

  Well, I haven't met her.

• 1:58:30Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, well.

• 1:58:32Speaker 01

  Please don't fall for the propaganda, you especially.

• 1:58:35Patrick Bet-David?

  I'll tell you this, here's what I would tell you. Maduro, if you are able to go to uh, uh, Venezuela to do an interview with him, I'd love to join you. I'd love to talk to him.

• 1:58:45Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:58:46Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, if you're, if you're.

• 1:58:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, maybe I'll investigate that.

• 1:58:49Patrick Bet-David?

  I'd love to go talk to him.

• 1:58:50Speaker 01

  If Truman turns, if Truman, I mean, if Trump turns his capacity on Venezuela, then we're gonna have a another war, that, that's gonna be ugly too. We don't want that.

• 1:59:01Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, this is not a, this is not-

• 1:59:03Speaker 01

  Those are the two threats right now, Iran and Venezuela.

• 1:59:06Patrick Bet-David?

  I have a lot of educated Venezuelans who are good family people-

• 1:59:10Speaker 01

  Yes, I know those people.

• 1:59:11Patrick Bet-David?

  Who escaped, who came here, who will say things about Maduro that is absolutely-

• 1:59:15Speaker 01

  Yes, I've heard them. I've heard them. Believe me, I've heard them.

• 1:59:18Patrick Bet-David?

  But you're defending him.

• 1:59:19Speaker 05

  He's a socialist essentially, right?

• 1:59:21Patrick Bet-David?

  Not just any kind of socialist.

• 1:59:22Speaker 01

  He's Bolivarian, okay.

• 1:59:24Speaker 05

  Well socialist, but I think that's, that's the question is, is that really the best path forward at this point? And I think holding on to the socialist ideal feels antiquated.

• 1:59:33Patrick Bet-David?

  Well, what do you think about Millet?

• 1:59:35Speaker 01

  I think he's working in his way. Absolutely. Everybody from Argentina tells me that. Not everybody. Some people are suffering, yes, but the truth is, you can, you can feel both ways.

• 1:59:45Patrick Bet-David?

  Well, respectfully, you are weird, different, and I love it.

• 1:59:50Speaker 01

  They're not necessarily a contradiction.

• 2:00:00Patrick Bet-David?

  Well, I know you got a flight to catch and, and, uh, by the way, Sean, before we wrap up, where can people find All of President's Men?

• 2:00:08Speaker 05

  Yeah, for sure. All of President's Men is on Tucker Carlson's network at this time. Yeah.

• 2:00:15Patrick Bet-David?

  And by the way, I thought it was ranked, is this the one that was number one on Apple or?

• 2:00:19Speaker 05

  No, not yet. We haven't gone to Apple. It's only here. Uh, my website, seanstone.info, has links to like all my, you know, all my work, documentaries, books.

• 2:00:28Patrick Bet-David?

  Can we put all of that below, Rob?

• 2:00:30Speaker 05

  That might be a good place that people can link to, uh-

• 2:00:33Patrick Bet-David?

  So, okay, so go to your website and then from there they can go directly to this.

• 2:00:37Speaker 05

  Exactly.

• 2:00:38Patrick Bet-David?

  We'll put both of those links.

• 2:00:39Speaker 05

  They can find other documentaries and projects and Hollywood DC is a documentary talking about, you're talking about the influence of, of politics and the media, right? And journalism and Hollywood and film. We get into that in the hour-long special. Actually, that's a good documentary as well.

• 2:00:56Patrick Bet-David?

  Well, we're gonna drive to that and Sean, I've spent time with your dad. I hadn't spent time with you, but dude, you're frickin' interesting as hell.

• 2:01:04Speaker 05

  Well, thank you.

• 2:01:04Patrick Bet-David?

  And I really enjoyed talking to you as just talking to you, you know? It was, it was interesting hearing your perspective. Uh, we know the great Oliver Stone, but this was phenomenal having both of you guys here. What a great conversation. And again, put the link below. Till next time. And maybe our next time will be in Venezuela sometime.

• 2:01:25Speaker 01

  Maybe so.

• 2:01:26Patrick Bet-David?

  Maybe we'll go to Venezuela.

• 2:01:27Speaker 01

  Maybe we'll come around.

• 2:01:28Speaker 05

  You might not, you might not make it out though, Patrick.

• 2:01:31Patrick Bet-David?

  Well, then that would validate my point. I'd call Oliver, I'm like, Oliver, come get me. You gotta come get me.

• 2:01:38Speaker 01

  I'm joking.

• 2:01:39Patrick Bet-David?

  Anyways, guys, God bless everybody. Take care. Bye bye, bye bye.