537 - Live at the Paramount Theatre (Seattle Night 2)

Live at Seattle’s Paramount Theatre, Georgia covers the infamous McDonald siblings and Karen tells the story of the “DB Tuber” Brinks robbery. For our sources, please visit https://www.myfavoritemurder.com/episodes. Support this podcast by shopping our latest sponsor deals and promotions at this link: https://bit.ly/3UFCn1g. Head to social media to share your favorite moments from this episode. Instagram: instagram.com/myfavoritemurder http://instagram.com/myfavoritemurder Facebook: facebook.com/myfavoritemurder http://facebook.com/myfavoritemurder TikTok: tiktok.com/@my_favorite_murder http://tiktok.com/@my_favorite_murder Send your hometown stories to [email protected] mailto:[email protected]. Join the Fan Cult to access ad-free episodes of My Favorite Murder. Members also receive merch store discounts, exclusive audio and video content and more! Visit www.fancult.supercast.com http://www.fancult.supercast.com/ to join. Shop for My Favorite Murder and other Exactly Right merchandise here: www.exactlyrightstore.com http://www.exactlyrightstore.com/. Rate, review and follow My Favorite Murder on the iHeartRadio, Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you like to listen. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  This is exactly right.

• 0:06Speaker 01

  In New Orleans, truckers kept getting sideswiped the exact same way. When a man is found murdered under questionable circumstances related to these accidents, the rubber hits the road. And what the feds uncover is a complex scheme of staged wrecks, financial fraud, and a pair of conspiring lovers behind it. This is a story about fake accidents that led to real consequences. Listen to Over My Dead Body: Operation Sideswipe wherever you get your podcasts. Audible subscribers can binge all episodes early and ad-free right now. Join Audible in the Audible app or by subscribing on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.

• 0:42Georgia Hardstark?

  There are plenty of things that keep you up at night. Your sleep tracker shouldn't be one of them.

• 0:46Karen Kilgariff?

  You know that feeling, laying in bed, staring at the ceiling, counting all the times you said something weird.

• 0:52Georgia Hardstark?

  And then you wake up and check your sleep score. Now you have to start your day knowing that you failed at sleeping.

• 0:57Karen Kilgariff?

  Hatch Sleep Clock does it differently.

• 0:59Georgia Hardstark?

  It tracks your sleep from your nightstand. No ring, wristband, or judgmental score waiting for you in the morning.

• 1:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Instead, you'll get personalized insights to understand your sleep and recommendations to build a routine you'll love night after night.

• 1:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Fall asleep to the next chapter of an audiobook like The Odyssey, a nervous system reset meditation, or a calming sound bath.

• 1:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Then you can find out which gives you 20 more minutes of deep sleep each night.

• 1:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Hatch Sleep Clock.

• 1:23Karen Kilgariff?

  The sleep tracker designed to get you to sleep. Available now on hatch.co.

• 1:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Goodbye.

• 2:14Karen Kilgariff?

  We went low and then we went up really high.

• 2:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah?

• 2:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 2:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh my, you may be see this.

• 2:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Thank you so much.

• 2:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Thank you. Wow, thanks you guys.

• 2:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Second night, who was here last night, anyone? Nobody?

• 2:31Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh. I was.

• 2:33Georgia Hardstark?

  You were?

• 2:34Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh my god, I had the best time. So cool.

• 2:38Georgia Hardstark?

  It was so fun. And if you paid attention last time, last night, my dress was starting to rip in the back. And guess what? It's gotten bigger.

• 2:47Karen Kilgariff?

  There it is.

• 2:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, I feel so much better.

• 2:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Dress hole watch 99. We're gonna watch this hole grow bigger and bigger all night long.

• 2:59Georgia Hardstark?

  You know why?

• 2:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Don't be gross, god. Let me say one weird Freudian slip at the top of the show, for god's sake.

• 3:07Georgia Hardstark?

  You know why? I've eaten so fucking well in this city that this dress doesn't fit.

• 3:13Karen Kilgariff?

  I had one of those burritos today that you were talking about.

• 3:16Georgia Hardstark?

  What's it from? It's from Matador.

• 3:19Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 3:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. Holy shit, you guys.

• 3:23Karen Kilgariff?

  Good shit.

• 3:23Georgia Hardstark?

  And then I had a fucking lobster roll. Right before we had to come in here and I had to put this dress on, so I was just like...

• 3:30Karen Kilgariff?

  You're working against your own dress.

• 3:32Georgia Hardstark?

  It's like, we're coming towards the end of the tour and like, all the things that I would like prepping for in the beginning, like fake tan, and I'm gonna make sure I whiten my teeth, and I gotta make sure my dress is fit, and blah blah blah. Like, I just fucking have, like, at that point, at this point...

• 3:45Karen Kilgariff?

  No.

• 3:45Georgia Hardstark?

  It's just like, what am I ordering when I get back to the hotel?

• 3:48Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right.

• 3:48Georgia Hardstark?

  For room service.

• 3:50Karen Kilgariff?

  More lobster rolls, probably?

• 3:51Georgia Hardstark?

  More lobster rolls.

• 3:52Karen Kilgariff?

  I have to say, you know, we went down by the beautiful harbor and looked at the clipper ship, I don't know, there's a bunch of boats down there and stuff.

• 4:01Karen Kilgariff?

  And it's, it was such a gorgeous day today, like unbelievably gorgeous, and then that area is so gorgeous. And there's a man walking behind us. And we stopped to look at, you know, down the, down the view, where the big swail is and shit, I don't know, you're the one that lives here.

• 4:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Paris wheel.

• 4:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Thank you. And then this guy stopped behind us and I was like, uh-oh, this guy is following us. And it's like, no, no, no, everybody likes the view, Karen, everybody. He's got a camera, he's from somewhere else.

• 4:34Georgia Hardstark?

  They're all here for a reason.

• 4:36Karen Kilgariff?

  For that exact same reason.

• 4:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Did you go on, would you go on the Ferris wheel? Vince and I were debating that for some reason while we were looking at it.

• 4:42Karen Kilgariff?

  It's too high.

• 4:43Georgia Hardstark?

  It's scary. It's very scary. Like, I don't need to see that high. I can see from like the third floor of the hotel that it looks pretty fucking amazing. Without being terrified.

• 4:53Karen Kilgariff?

  It's so high.

• 4:54Georgia Hardstark?

  It's so high.

• 4:55Karen Kilgariff?

  And also those things snap off and roll into the sea all the time, all the time.

• 5:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Absolutely.

• 5:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Sick of that shit.

• 5:03Georgia Hardstark?

  And then like, that is Karen's stance from here on out.

• 5:09Karen Kilgariff?

  God, I'm mad about it. That, and you know what? It's a nice harbor, smells too much like fish. I'm sorry. I have one note, get rid of that fish smell.

• 5:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Speaking of fish smells, this is my favorite.

• 5:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Had to.

• 5:25Karen Kilgariff?

  That's Georgia Hardt's.

• 5:26Georgia Hardstark?

  That's Karen Kilgariff.

• 5:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Thank you.

• 5:31Karen Kilgariff?

  You're Seattle.

• 5:34Georgia Hardstark?

  I was gonna tell, oh, you know what's playing at this theater coming up?

• 5:38Karen Kilgariff?

  What? Shenyang.

• 5:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Probably, but also Rocky Horror Picture Show.

• 5:43Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, shit.

• 5:45Georgia Hardstark?

  I feel like it's like hollow grounds more than like when we did, what's that one place we did in Nashville?

• 5:52Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, the Grand Old Opry?

• 5:53Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm like, whatever, but then I'm like, Rocky Horror is gonna be here? It's so exciting.

• 5:58Karen Kilgariff?

  I wish I could time travel back to my 12-year-old self where Rocky Horror played every Saturday night at the Plaza Theater in Petaluma. I think we're, that theater is in a, it's in a book or something. They did it for a really long time. But I wish I could just go back as an old crone and whisper in my 12-year-old ear. I was like, it just is this over and over. Again, until you die.

• 6:20Georgia Hardstark?

  This is the best.

• 6:21Karen Kilgariff?

  You're gonna keep on hearing this song. That song by The Cure. You're gonna keep on, like, it's all the same. It just keeps repeating.

• 6:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Have you lashed your spark?

• 6:29Karen Kilgariff?

  My mind? Look, we're doing our best.

• 6:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, we really are.

• 6:35Karen Kilgariff?

  Are we?

• 6:35Georgia Hardstark?

  We are. We try.

• 6:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Who knows?

• 6:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Look.

• 6:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Hey, listen.

• 6:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, I have another question. I don't know why I'm asking all these questions like the Ferris wheel one, but I was taking a bath in the hotel and I was like, is this gross? When most people take a bath, a separate bathtub from a shower. I'm not a fucking monster. I would never. I never like combine the two. But when there's like a separate bathtub, I'm like, yes. And I get so excited and I get in the bath and I'm like, who else has been in here?

• 7:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 7:06Georgia Hardstark?

  They have to clean it, right?

• 7:08Karen Kilgariff?

  They do, but then I also ask how much bleach is in there when I'm getting in.

• 7:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Bleach is great for eczema, though. So, I swear.

• 7:16Karen Kilgariff?

  I don't want to talk about eczema anymore. It's very weird, though, because we are cyclically connected. Because I also tried to take a bath today.

• 7:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, OK, you did.

• 7:25Karen Kilgariff?

  And I actually switched it over from the, because it is a very nice bathtub. We're very lucky to have the best bathtubs in the business. But I switched it over to the like hand sprayer thing. And I was just like, bleach, get rid of this bleach. There must be bleach everywhere.

• 7:41Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm not worried about bleach. I'm worried about other people's skin cells. One time I got out of the bathtub and I had someone else's body glitter on me. And I, that's when I knew.

• 7:51Karen Kilgariff?

  You don't have to be upset about that, though, because that was just a kindergarten teacher. I've told this story on the show before, but my sister has been a kindergarten teacher for 30 years. And she, she's like, here's how you know I'm a kindergarten teacher. I just sneezed and glitter came out of my nose.

• 8:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Just part of the job, as if.

• 8:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Do you see two seats empty and go, what, what fight did they get in on the way here? What was the argument about?

• 8:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Also, I see those two seats and I'm like, that's, those are totally my tickets when I'm not the one on the stage. I'm like out there, I'm like, OK, sorry, I'm 29 minutes late. You don't have to be mad at me all the time.

• 8:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God, you guys, if they come and like quietly walk in, let's all like yell something at them at the same time. It's all like.

• 8:34Karen Kilgariff?

  Let's plan a prank.

• 8:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Want to show, show them your dress?

• 8:38Karen Kilgariff?

  It's the mayor of Seattle. Oh, here's my dress and it has pockets.

• 8:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, I love this one.

• 8:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Two.

• 8:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Two of them.

• 8:48Karen Kilgariff?

  Two in the front.

• 8:50Georgia Hardstark?

  At least two.

• 8:51Karen Kilgariff?

  None of those butt pockets on a dress like you hate.

• 8:54Georgia Hardstark?

  And we have accidental matching sequence.

• 8:57Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. What? Yes, that's right. Oh, we, um...

• 9:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Sorry, we were having a...

• 9:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Listen, can't we just have one minute? One meeting in front of you? We are very excited because we do have a little tiny surprise for you tonight.

• 9:13Georgia Hardstark?

  There is a special guest here that we... Is part of the... Not Steven. Now you made this guest feel really fucking bad.

• 9:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, good job.

• 9:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Who is part of the My Favorite Murder family from the very beginning that we just absolutely adore.

• 9:29Karen Kilgariff?

  And he's a voluntary part of the My Favorite Murder family, just began to make things for us, is so perfect. We love him so much. Ladies and gentlemen, it's Nick Terry.

• 9:43Georgia Hardstark?

  He pointed over there, is it?

• 9:45Karen Kilgariff?

  I pointed to that person, but I don't know where he's coming from.

• 9:47Georgia Hardstark?

  That's not Nick Terry. Where is he?

• 9:49Karen Kilgariff?

  It's Nick Terry.

• 9:49Georgia Hardstark?

  There he is!

• 9:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, coming down the center. Yes, yes, yes.

• 9:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Look at him go!

• 9:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh my god. He looks like he would draw Nick Terry's animations.

• 10:04Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right.

• 10:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Doesn't he?

• 10:05Karen Kilgariff?

  He's perfect casting Nick Terry.

• 10:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Hey, come here. Hello.

• 10:14Karen Kilgariff?

  It's so good to see you.

• 10:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Have people recognized you here tonight?

• 10:18Speaker 04

  Not tonight, no.

• 10:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, you guys. Last night, the audience was better?

• 10:23Speaker 04

  A couple last night at the very end.

• 10:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Is it so exciting?

• 10:26Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's fun. I never know what to say.

• 10:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Have you seen MFM animated tattoos in the wild?

• 10:31Speaker 04

  Uh, not in person, but I've gotten some photos over...

• 10:34Georgia Hardstark?

  All right.

• 10:34Speaker 04

  Over the years.

• 10:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Can someone really quickly run out, get a fucking quick MFM animated... Vince, actually. I was thinking Vince and I could get... If Vince and I had to get couples tattoos, I could get his MFM animated for some reason on my stomach. And he could get mine!

• 10:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Because that's where the nipple is.

• 10:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Well, we want to thank you for being part of the family and just, we're such big fans.

• 10:57Speaker 04

  Oh, I'm so honored to be able to participate in this cool thing.

• 11:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Nick Terry, everyone!

• 11:03Karen Kilgariff?

  I feel like Nick Terry is the perfect Seattle citizen to interact with. He's the perfect representation of like chill, insanely talented, not a dick, and loves the rain.

• 11:18Speaker 04

  I do love the rain, that's true, yeah, absolutely.

• 11:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, we love you, thank you for everything. And we just wanted to get you up here so people could put their eyes on you and then buy you coffee the next time they see you.

• 11:29Speaker 04

  Thanks so much.

• 11:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Nick Terry, ladies and gentlemen!

• 11:35Georgia Hardstark?

  I love that you just pointed in that general direction.

• 11:37Karen Kilgariff?

  I was just like, someone's standing over there.

• 11:39Georgia Hardstark?

  That's Marcus, that's our tour manager.

• 11:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Sorry, Marcus, I don't have my glasses on.

• 11:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, is it sit-down time?

• 11:46Georgia Hardstark?

  It's sit-down time.

• 11:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Here we go.

• 11:53Karen Kilgariff?

  I just remembered, I didn't print up one email.

• 11:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh no!

• 11:58Karen Kilgariff?

  That's fine, I'll resite it off the top of my head.

• 12:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Is it gonna ruin the story, is the night? Should we just end this?

• 12:04Karen Kilgariff?

  I think we should end it right now, and thanks so much. Speech, speech, speech.

• 12:09Georgia Hardstark?

  We got our table back, we accidentally had a short table recently.

• 12:13Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, the challenges that we've seen on this tour, it's absolutely...

• 12:17Georgia Hardstark?

  It's so hard, like, do I take a bath, or do I not take a bath? It's really hard.

• 12:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Who are we? It's been 10 years, and now we're the biggest bath time divas of all time.

• 12:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Thank you, thanks for supporting that.

• 12:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Who's first? Okay, oh, tell them about what we're doing tonight.

• 12:36Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, yes.

• 12:36Georgia Hardstark?

  I don't even remember how this goes.

• 12:38Karen Kilgariff?

  This is a little speech that we like to give because oftentimes, you guys, we've been touring and coming to Seattle for... since we started touring, you guys were like the third stop I think we ever made.

• 12:51Karen Kilgariff?

  And unlike Portland, you didn't get shitfaced and throw up in the aisle.

• 12:58Georgia Hardstark?

  That sounds like a challenge.

• 12:59Karen Kilgariff?

  It is. I'm kind of trying to start to kick up the rivalry tonight. One Portlander is out there like crying.

• 13:07Karen Kilgariff?

  But, we just want to tell anybody who, there's plenty of people that, the people who listen to this podcast, forced to come to live shows, which is cruel and selfish, but we'll talk about that later. The people who are forced, we call you drag-alongs, and we just give you a little speech at the top because you will not know what's happening. A lot of this is like going to your friend's college reunion or some shit where everyone's like, "Remember that one time?" And it's like, "No, I don't, and this is boring."

• 13:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 13:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Also, we just want to tell you or explain a little bit, this is a true crime comedy podcast, and we started this podcast because Georgia and I met and we realized that we have similar trauma and we cope with it in similar ways. Through humor, I won't stop mispronouncing it.

• 13:53Georgia Hardstark?

  I know, the humor, the humor thing, yeah.

• 13:54Karen Kilgariff?

  It started as humor, now I'm saying you more. Now no one knows what's going on, but at least I think it's funny.

• 14:01Georgia Hardstark?

  That's the point.

• 14:03Karen Kilgariff?

  We cope with it through humor, and we cope with it through reading true crime stories. We don't know why, you don't know why, it's just how it is with us. And, we don't think murder's funny, we think we're funny. Ultimately, if you don't like it, you can get the fuck out.

• 14:25Karen Kilgariff?

  That was a big, that was a big one.

• 14:27Georgia Hardstark?

  My, my friend Carrie Sellen-Vetter texts me today, we were texting about, you know, she got in a car accident, she's stressed out, this happened, and I said, "It's probably not helping that I'm listening to a book about Columbine." And she goes, "How are we gonna get you into sexy dragons?" She's like, "What is wrong with you? We need you to get into like fantasy, Georgia." Jesus fucking Christ.

• 14:48Karen Kilgariff?

  I know.

• 14:48Georgia Hardstark?

  And it's not even for work, I'm just fucking, that's my like, that's my reading.

• 14:52Karen Kilgariff?

  That's your go-to.

• 14:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Jesus.

• 14:54Karen Kilgariff?

  It feels right. It just feels right.

• 14:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Sexy dragons, so that's the next, that's my next podcast.

• 15:00Karen Kilgariff?

  You can't force sexy dragons, though, that's kind of the worst way to interact with them. It's gotta be natural, gotta be.

• 15:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, Marcus, is this you? He keeps putting G. Grizz, or G. Skillet, or G. Georgia, do you have one too?

• 15:17Karen Kilgariff?

  No, he doesn't like me.

• 15:20Georgia Hardstark?

  It's fine, it's fine. I like it. It's always different and I'm finally paying attention and noticing, what, eight cities in? Great. Am I first? Listen. We're having a great time. It says here, "You're going first."

• 15:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Molly's like, "You're so stupid that I know that even though I text you this afternoon, you're gonna forget," which I did. Look.

• 15:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Listen, okay. I got nothing. Stop.

• 15:45Georgia Hardstark?

  As an adult, making dinner isn't the hard part.

• 15:48Karen Kilgariff?

  The hard part is deciding what to make every single night for the rest of your life.

• 15:51Georgia Hardstark?

  But with Hungry Root, you can make that decision a whole lot easier.

• 15:54Karen Kilgariff?

  Hungry Root is like having your own personal shopper and nutritionist all wrapped up into one. They'll take care of weekly grocery shopping and recommend groceries and meals tailored to you.

• 16:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Once you tell them about your goals and preferences, they fill your cart with personalized recommendations. And those recommendations get smarter as Hungry Root learns more about what you did or didn't like.

• 16:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Most of Hungry Root's recipes can be made in just 15 minutes or less. I mean, of course, it's always great to have delicious and very healthy groceries delivered to your house, which they can do, but I love the fact that Hungry Root will also just make you dinner so you can have it sitting there waiting. They make a classic chicken, corn, and Mexican rice bowl, and they have all kinds of variations on those themes. So that's one that I love to reach for. And all these options so you're getting really healthy meals.

• 16:40Georgia Hardstark?

  For a limited time, get 40% off your first order plus get a free item in every box for life.

• 16:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Go to hungryroot.com/mfm and use code MFM. That's hungryroot.com/mfm code MFM to get 40% off your first box and a free item of your choice for life. Goodbye.

• 16:58Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm first. That's right. Right? Yes, it is. Okay. Yeah, really focus and let's be professional. Starting now. Starting now for the first time, yeah. Wait, starting now. Okay, so tonight's story that I'm gonna tell you is about a group of four hell-raising siblings from Spokane.

• 17:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Which I said correctly.

• 17:20Karen Kilgariff?

  You sure did.

• 17:20Georgia Hardstark?

  I know.

• 17:21Karen Kilgariff?

  And also, my story was from Spokane last night.

• 17:23Georgia Hardstark?

  That's right.

• 17:24Karen Kilgariff?

  And one of our great listeners, who wrote in an email, called it "The Sacramento of Washington."

• 17:31Georgia Hardstark?

  You said it, not us.

• 17:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, we didn't do it.

• 17:34Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 17:34Karen Kilgariff?

  We're just reading emails from you.

• 17:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Don't misplace your anger here.

• 17:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Take it elsewhere.

• 17:42Georgia Hardstark?

  And so, this is about four hell-raising siblings from Spokane who probably got away with murder. Their multiple trials were huge sensations in the early 1900s, when your parents were born.

• 17:54Georgia Hardstark?

  But it's mostly been lost to time. This is the story of the infamous Douglas... Sorry, McDonald family. Who's Douglas?

• 18:00Karen Kilgariff?

  McDonal Douglas?

• 18:01Georgia Hardstark?

  McDonal Douglas, yes. McDonald family. Stephen?

• 18:06Karen Kilgariff?

  We love their hamburgers.

• 18:10Georgia Hardstark?

  We do. Okay. The main source for the story is a two-part essay from History Link, which summarizes a lot of the old-timey reporting. And that article is by Jim Kirschner. So, we are in Spokane. And it's mid-July of 1919. And a woman named... Okay, here we go. It's just starting immediately. A woman named Pearl McNutt.

• 18:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Hell, yeah.

• 18:32Georgia Hardstark?

  Like, just right off the bat.

• 18:35Karen Kilgariff?

  She will only have nouns in her name, only.

• 18:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes. So, we're already off to the McNutt races.

• 18:42Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 18:42Georgia Hardstark?

  And it's only gonna get worse.

• 18:46Georgia Hardstark?

  And we try not to work blue, but when we do, we just go with it.

• 18:49Karen Kilgariff?

  We just go all in.

• 18:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 18:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Remember the hole in Georgia's dress?

• 18:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, and the nipple. Um, who could forget the nipple? So, Pearl McNutt walks into a police station, and she claims that her husband, a prominent real estate developer named... Guess what? William McNutt, has been missing for about a month. So Pearl says that weeks earlier, her husband had gone over to a local boarding house that's called The Wolverine. It's pretty rad.

• 19:15Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, that badass.

• 19:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 19:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Is it still there?

• 19:18Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 19:19Karen Kilgariff?

  What if you're like, "I wanna open a boarding house. What should I call it?" The Sea Wolf?

• 19:24Georgia Hardstark?

  No. How about Sexy Dragons? No. Wolverine.

• 19:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Wolverines.

• 19:31Georgia Hardstark?

  So Mr. McNutt went to settle a dispute over money at the Wolverine. McNutt had loaned someone, had loaned the startup cash to open the hotel to four siblings, and now they're not repaying the loan as agreed. And Pearl hasn't seen her husband since he went to try to collect the money that they owed him weeks earlier, which I guess doesn't get, like, lost in translation that you wouldn't go, like, two days later, whatever.

• 19:56Karen Kilgariff?

  But think about what Laura Ingalls Wilder would have done and how long it would have taken her to do that. First of all, you have to go ask Pa. And then you have to go down to Mrs. Olsen's corner store and get some supplies.

• 20:09Georgia Hardstark?

  And it's 1919, so she's not used to, like, making her own decisions, not like we, like us now, right?

• 20:14Karen Kilgariff?

  But you just said, but it's 1990.

• 20:16Georgia Hardstark?

  I said 1919.

• 20:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, my mistake. Because it was pretty fucked up in 1919, 1990 as well.

• 20:24Georgia Hardstark?

  It's always sucked. Okay, so, oh, and then Ally, my researcher, wrote, "Note to Georgia, there are three Williams in this story, so my hands are tied. I have to refer to him as McNutt." As if she doesn't know me and know that I would do that anyways, no matter how many Williams we were discussing.

• 20:45Karen Kilgariff?

  There's Bill, there's Will, there's Willie, there's Billy.

• 20:48Georgia Hardstark?

  There's just McNutt.

• 20:49Karen Kilgariff?

  There's.

• 20:50Georgia Hardstark?

  McNutt and I.

• 20:51Karen Kilgariff?

  There's B-Nuts with a Z at the end.

• 20:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, so the Wolverine is owned and operated by the McDonald siblings, Marie, Fay, Ted, and Will, another fucking William. They're all in their early twenties to early thirties, and Fay is the youngest at around 20 years old. The McDonald's are an interesting bunch. Their father, who has been dead for about two years, was a judge, but not a respected one. He had never been an attorney, and he had just been elected as judge as a populist candidate. Hey, you go decide everyone's fate because you're charismatic? I don't know.

• 21:26Karen Kilgariff?

  You drink a lot with people in bars and stuff?

• 21:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Exactly.

• 21:29Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, like, how do you do that? Where it's like, you know what? Let old McNutt decide.

• 21:35Georgia Hardstark?

  And he had made a lot of big promises, had a lot of charisma, but was ultimately just a scammer. And so he's left his four kids behind. As soon as he had been elected, he hired three family members to be bailiffs. You, you, you.

• 21:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, nepotism.

• 21:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Yep.

• 21:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Really bad up here.

• 21:50Georgia Hardstark?

  One of which was his son, Will, who was 12 years old at the time. So Will, the 12-year-old bailiff. That is an MFM animated sketch of Lil Will.

• 22:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Wouldn't that be amazing if we make Nick do it live, like, behind us?

• 22:06Georgia Hardstark?

  He quits forever.

• 22:07Karen Kilgariff?

  Quick sketches?

• 22:09Georgia Hardstark?

  He also starts having his daughter Faye, his youngest daughter, preach on the evangelical circuit when she's eight years old.

• 22:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 22:18Georgia Hardstark?

  That's who I want to hear fucking about Jesus from, is a fucking...

• 22:21Karen Kilgariff?

  But think about it.

• 22:22Georgia Hardstark?

  What?

• 22:23Karen Kilgariff?

  It's eerie.

• 22:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Creepy?

• 22:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Creepy.

• 22:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 22:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Right? Because you know she's like one of those old souls that like talks like an adult as an eight-year-old. And then she's like, guess what Jesus said? And you're like, oh, no. The weird child told me what God said. Like, you would absolutely fall for it. Not you, but we, one would. One would love it.

• 22:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Sure. I can see that. So in 1915, four years before McNutt goes missing, a fire breaks out at Marie's house. And at the time, Marie, one of the siblings, is around 20 years old. And she has just gotten divorced from a man, another William, William Wilkinson.

• 22:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Please get him out of the family. There's too many bills.

• 23:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Nope. No, it gets worse because he's described as a street railroad man, which we think means he either drove a streetcar or works on Spokane's Trolley Network in some capacity. We don't know. But the fire is set at Marie's house. Actually, here's a photo of Marie and Faye.

• 23:18Karen Kilgariff?

  What a gorgeous photo.

• 23:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Hey!

• 23:23Karen Kilgariff?

  What she did. She's about to sing or sneeze.

• 23:30Karen Kilgariff?

  She's actually like, "I can't believe this fucking guy's gonna take a picture of us right now." But doesn't, it kind of looks like that's Faye and that's Marie, just by the length of the names down there. Can't read them.

• 23:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Right, yes, you're right. But also, the younger sister's always the taller one, though. So maybe, you know what I mean?

• 23:46Karen Kilgariff?

  That's true, and more beautiful.

• 23:47Georgia Hardstark?

  And the smartest one ever! Hey!

• 23:51Karen Kilgariff?

  But also, so doesn't Marie kind of look like two children in an overcoat?

• 23:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 24:00Karen Kilgariff?

  And not to body shame, that's not my style, but... Let's make sure that they pay for all their movie tickets, that's all I'm saying.

• 24:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Structurally, yes. It's not body shaming, it's a structure thing.

• 24:12Karen Kilgariff?

  It's more of shape shaming.

• 24:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 24:16Georgia Hardstark?

  So there's a fire at Marie's house. When the fire's put out, the fire marshals immediately notice some fishy things going on at Marie's house. To start with, all the shades are drawn and tacked down to the window sills, so no one can see into the house.

• 24:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Tacked.

• 24:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Which also sounds like you're just making drugs.

• 24:32Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, that's very methy, but in 1919.

• 24:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. Secondly, all of the furniture had been moved out of the house before the fire started.

• 24:44Georgia Hardstark?

  And...

• 24:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, well.

• 24:46Georgia Hardstark?

  You know?

• 24:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, good luck.

• 24:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. And there's little petals of maybe kerosene here and there, so that, this looks suspicious. The fire marshal also finds out that Marie had recently taken out an insurance policy worth fifteen hundred... What happened? Fifteen hundred dollars for the personal property in the house that wasn't in the house anymore.

• 25:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Uh-oh.

• 25:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 25:11Karen Kilgariff?

  They're trying to get that fifteen hundred dollars.

• 25:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Which in today's money...

• 25:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Fifteen hundred from 1919?

• 25:16Georgia Hardstark?

  1915. I feel like that's gonna make a huge difference.

• 25:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, that's, that's gonna change my data quite a bit, as I calculate. Let me calculate. I literally always just guess, like, "Is it thirty-seven thousand dollars?"

• 25:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Forty-eight, that's like, so close, though!

• 25:32Karen Kilgariff?

  That was pretty close for me. I usually like to go, "That's okay."

• 25:39Georgia Hardstark?

  So nice, like all the drag-alongs are always like, "What the fuck's happening?"

• 25:42Karen Kilgariff?

  Why did they clap for her? She was wrong.

• 25:45Georgia Hardstark?

  So wrong. That's actually close in today's podcasting.

• 25:49Karen Kilgariff?

  That's very true.

• 25:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Of today's money.

• 25:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Nice.

• 25:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Thank you.

• 25:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Clapping because we're wrong is kind of the theme of this podcast.

• 25:57Georgia Hardstark?

  That's right.

• 25:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Right? It's the fun of it. That's the fun of it.

• 26:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Are they disagreeing right now?

• 26:04Karen Kilgariff?

  They're agreeing and disagreeing at the same time. It's what they're like up here.

• 26:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, the fire marshal notes that all of Marie's belongings are worth about a third of what she's claiming that they're worth, even though they're not even there. So she's charged with arson and her bail is set at about $2,000. Do you want to or should we not do it?

• 26:23Karen Kilgariff?

  $37,000. I think that's...

• 26:24Georgia Hardstark?

  That's less than...

• 26:25Karen Kilgariff?

  I said that before. Yeah, same number. I panicked.

• 26:28Georgia Hardstark?

  64. Just keep going, 37.

• 26:31Karen Kilgariff?

  I'm just sorry because I was kind of caught up thinking about, my sister used to have my grandfather's chest of drawers that she kept in Nora's room just to keep it away. And that fucking thing was so heavy that when we tried to move it out, when she got Nora new furniture, it was like eight people had to come over. So

• 26:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 26:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Someone in Marie's household had to carry out the shifter robe and the fucking fainting couch and, I mean, every single...

• 26:57Georgia Hardstark?

  And the neighbors-in-snitch, apparently.

• 26:59Karen Kilgariff?

  No.

• 27:00Georgia Hardstark?

  So, she's bailed out of this arrest by none other than William McNutt.

• 27:08Karen Kilgariff?

  The crooked judge?

• 27:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, who, no, that's their parent, their dad.

• 27:12Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, okay.

• 27:12Georgia Hardstark?

  William McNutt's the one who went missing earlier, eight hours ago in the beginning of the story.

• 27:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, got it, got it.

• 27:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. So, since he had been friends with the fathers, he's still close with the kids and kind of looks after them a little, it seems like, in their early adulthood, including bailing her out. And this seems to be a mistake as he goes missing. Because of it. One more weird detail about this arson chapter is that five days after the arson and six months after Marie's divorce from the street railroad man, William, just you can just guess William and you're right.

• 27:45Karen Kilgariff?

  It's peanuts.

• 27:47Georgia Hardstark?

  He marries Marie. Remember you were like, we should just get rid of him. We would. But he marries Marie's 15-year-old sister, Fay, instead. So we can't get rid of this guy.

• 28:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 28:00Karen Kilgariff?

  She was 15?

• 28:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. Well, maybe not now, but pretty fucking young. Pretty young, like 20 there.

• 28:06Karen Kilgariff?

  I would love to turn her on to Korean skincare. It is a life changer. It's a fucking life changer. Go to TJ Maxx, change your own life, I swear to God.

• 28:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Now, you can tell they didn't have it back then.

• 28:17Karen Kilgariff?

  No, they did not. It was all just one burlap sack that the whole town shared. Scrape it off, Marie.

• 28:28Georgia Hardstark?

  So, basically, there's a court. They go to court and in the end, there's a hung jury and the judge declares a mistrial and so the prosecutor chooses not to charge Marie again. So she got away with this arson. So between the fire in 1915 and 1919, when McNutt disappears, the McDonald's wind up opening the Wolverine, this boarding house, using funding from McNutt. And, but that was a bad idea to do.

• 28:58Karen Kilgariff?

  You can just keep saying that, usually through all these stories.

• 29:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, that's, everything's a bad idea.

• 29:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Bad idea.

• 29:03Georgia Hardstark?

  So Pearl, the wife, Pearl McNutt, who has three children with McNutt, it says, Jesus.

• 29:12Georgia Hardstark?

  She, when she's saying to the police that she can't find her husband, she says that he had gotten into an argument with the McDonald's siblings, who had said that if he came back to the Wolverine again, they would shoot him. And so, weeks later, Pearl's like... He went back and I haven't seen him.

• 29:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. And the detective's like, let me think about this for a little while.

• 29:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. Everyone's just gonna take some time. Let's not rush to any fucking judgment. Um, Pearl also tells the police that all four McDonald's siblings are now missing themselves. So what's more, when police look into the case, they quickly realize that Faye had shipped all of her belongings to Los Angeles under a fake name.

• 29:55Karen Kilgariff?

  Uh-uh.

• 29:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. So at this point, the fact that all four McDonald's are missing, um, police are entertaining the idea that Marie has actually run off with McNutt. Not that they shot him as they said they would when he, if he ever came back. But, okay.

• 30:11Karen Kilgariff?

  He might be under her coat. Maybe that's what, maybe that's what I'm seeing.

• 30:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Um, so Pearl does what any person would do and goes to a psychic, a local psychic, named Selma Armore. That's a good psychic name.

• 30:26Karen Kilgariff?

  That's great.

• 30:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Um, and she says that McNutt has been murdered and his body is buried on a ranch. That's her premonition. This is backed up when an anonymous tipster calls the Burns Detective Agency in Los Angeles, who at this point have been looped in on the case since they think Faye, since Faye sent all her stuff to Los Angeles. They're like, let's keep an eye out for the tall one.

• 30:47Georgia Hardstark?

  This tipster says that McNutt had been killed with a hammer at the Wolverine in June, a month earlier. Um, and then, uh, they can't identify who this caller is, but they're pretty sure that it is William Wilkinson, the husband, times two, husband squared, who married the sister and then the sister.

• 31:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, that guy.

• 31:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. This is complicated.

• 31:09Karen Kilgariff?

  And I'm back.

• 31:13Georgia Hardstark?

  What are you thinking about?

• 31:14Karen Kilgariff?

  You know, just if those people come.

• 31:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Not yet.

• 31:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Thinking of jokes to say, I was gonna yell, "Look, it's the McNuts, everybody," and then...

• 31:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, that would've been great.

• 31:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, well, do it. They're not here. There's someone here.

• 31:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, okay, okay.

• 31:29Georgia Hardstark?

  At this point, the Burns detectives locate Faye and, uh, her husband in Los Angeles, but there's no evidence connecting her to McNutt's disappearance. But that changes on October 2nd, 1919, when the anonymous tipster, this guy can't stop talking, calls detectives and tells them where McNutt's body can be found.

• 31:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, this person was clearly at the murder.

• 31:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 31:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Witnessing, perhaps a journalist of some kind.

• 31:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. And can't stop feeding them information and they're like... Okay, here is like sending them a map.

• 31:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 31:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Like a map quest of.

• 32:02Karen Kilgariff?

  He's dropping a pin for these motherfuckers and it is not working.

• 32:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Finally, the tipster tells the Spokane police that McNutt is buried on his own ranch. Remember when the psychic, there's just so many arrows that nobody's looking at.

• 32:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 32:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Because remember when the psychic was like, "He's buried on a ranch." And they're like, "Not on his own ranch, it's his own ranch."

• 32:24Karen Kilgariff?

  It's his ranch. Oh, I thought you meant the guy that was giving the tip was like, "It's buried on my ranch." And I'm like, "That tipster is not good at giving tips." So he might as well just come and get me now.

• 32:34Georgia Hardstark?

  And being anonymous, yeah. So the tipster actually gives specifics and he said that Will McDonald, the brother, had been the one to actually kill McNutt. And he buried him in a four-foot hole on the ranch and then made a bonfire over the spot to cover up the newly-turned earth. So clearly this person was there, right?

• 32:55Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 32:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Investigators quickly find the burned area and start digging. Soon they find the edge of a blanket and they realize it's wrapped around a body. Pearl is on the scene and identifies her husband, William McNutt. And his skull has been hit multiple times with a blunt object, just as the tipster had said.

• 33:12Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, it was a hammer, right?

• 33:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, it seems like it. At this point, the Spokane police telegraph Los Angeles police and they arrest three of the four McDonald's siblings, Marie Fay and this one, Ted. I'm gonna burp.

• 33:25Karen Kilgariff?

  What was Ted like, do you think?

• 33:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Thank you, keep asking.

• 33:27Karen Kilgariff?

  He was, I bet Ted was just kind of like the younger brother, he's a fuck-up.

• 33:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Thank you.

• 33:31Karen Kilgariff?

  Actually, I'm just describing House of Guinness right now. That's why my brain went to that.

• 33:36Georgia Hardstark?

  I've been watching that too.

• 33:37Karen Kilgariff?

  It's good, right?

• 33:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 33:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Thank you.

• 33:40Karen Kilgariff?

  You're welcome. Anytime.

• 33:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Sorry about the Red Bull smell.

• 33:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Red Bull and lobster roll? Ew! Guys, that's gross.

• 33:54Karen Kilgariff?

  Why is that your city treat? Sorry, that would've been funnier.

• 33:59Georgia Hardstark?

  No, it's actually my signature scent.

• 34:05Karen Kilgariff?

  The cats will love you.

• 34:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Um, it gives you fins, if that's so. But lobsters don't have...

• 34:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Put her there.

• 34:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Thank you.

• 34:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, but they can't track down the fourth sibling, William, because these Williams. And that, as you recall, is the one who it was said actually killed and buried McNutt. So he's kind of the one that they want the most and they can't find him. And in late October of 1919, the remaining three McDonald's siblings are extradited to Spokane and charged with McNutt's murder. The McDo—oh, yeah, there's a picture.

• 34:43Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 34:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Chicanas! Do you see Charlie XCX right there?

• 34:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Right? And that must be Lord, then.

• 34:55Karen Kilgariff?

  You cannot argue with those eyebrows, though. They're just devastating brows.

• 34:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, those are not even—yeah.

• 35:02Karen Kilgariff?

  From a hundred and some odd years ago.

• 35:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 35:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Wow.

• 35:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, so that's them. They're going to trial. And so, basically, the trial begins in January of 1920, and Will McDonald still isn't located. The sibling's story has changed and just keeps changing. Marie says that McNutt had come to the Wolverine and had physically attacked her, and that Fay, her sister, had tried to protect her. And then Will, the brother, had burst dramatically into the room. At that point—there's two Wills now. At that point, McNutt had drawn a gun. So the victim had drawn a gun and fired at least twice, missing Will. And that Will had beaten them on the head with a hammer in self-defense. And the siblings back that up.

• 35:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Um, okay. It's just the whole hammer part—

• 35:51Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 35:53Karen Kilgariff?

  —is a little violent.

• 35:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 35:55Karen Kilgariff?

  And also, weren't there multiple contusions, if I must?

• 35:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. And you know what? There weren't bullet holes anywhere.

• 36:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, yeah.

• 36:03Georgia Hardstark?

  So—because you'd be like, well, why don't we just immediately get the cops and— Be like it was self-defense. See, there's a bullet hole and a bullet hole. I was like, oh, there aren't any.

• 36:10Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right.

• 36:11Georgia Hardstark?

  So, okay, that's not gonna work. And so, there are a lot of holes in the story, except there aren't any holes. I was like trying to figure out how to say that.

• 36:21Karen Kilgariff?

  No, you did it. That was great.

• 36:23Georgia Hardstark?

  And the other thing that's weird is the day after this happens, Marie had tried to pay for some hosiery. Hosiery?

• 36:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Hosiery. Either one.

• 36:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Hosiery. In a department store with a check from McNutt's checkbook. So you, that's not great. Why, like, just don't do that.

• 36:39Karen Kilgariff?

  He said I could.

• 36:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. Right. So thirdly, the day after McNutt first went missing, someone asked Fay, one of the sisters, where he was, and she answered that he had gone fishing. Yeah, he's gone fishing. Which is like, and then also, they drive out of town when they leave for Los Angeles in McNutt's car. So, not the best plan.

• 37:03Karen Kilgariff?

  They're flippant. They're stealing his stuff.

• 37:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 37:06Karen Kilgariff?

  They still have all their furniture.

• 37:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. And their hammer.

• 37:10Karen Kilgariff?

  It's the beginning of the Beverly Hillbillies.

• 37:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Shit.

• 37:15Georgia Hardstark?

  So despite all these holes, the fact that McDonald's, the McDonald's tell a story of self-defense and that they say that it was actually the brother who did the deed anyways, who isn't here. All through McDonald's, Marie, Fay, and Ted are found not guilty.

• 37:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 37:30Georgia Hardstark?

  But they're all rearrested and recharged the next day for forgery and for trying to pass that check, for stealing the car. Just for doing stupid. I'm not telling you how to commit a crime. You shouldn't commit a crime. Don't commit a crime.

• 37:47Karen Kilgariff?

  But...

• 37:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 37:49Karen Kilgariff?

  When you do...

• 37:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 37:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Leave the car in the guy's garage.

• 37:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. And this, in the end, the sisters are found guilty and Ted is found not guilty. So the sisters appeal their cases. They're let out of jail on bond. Which is a big mistake because they fucking skedaddle.

• 38:07Karen Kilgariff?

  I could have told you that.

• 38:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Now there's like three kids in a coat. Like they're like, we gotta get out of here, put the coat on.

• 38:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, Spokane detective is sent to track them down, which like had to be the most exciting like thing of his life, right?

• 38:27Karen Kilgariff?

  It's on his suspenders.

• 38:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, it's on his coat.

• 38:30Karen Kilgariff?

  And then a raincoat over it.

• 38:32Georgia Hardstark?

  Hey, like how fun. He's sent to track her, to track them down. He tracks Faye to Tampico, Mexico. So this is like exotic for him now. He's living his life. I mean, this is a-

• 38:44Karen Kilgariff?

  But probably a little bit jarring to his system.

• 38:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Sure. Yeah, you gotta think. He finds her at-

• 38:53Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm just picturing the fucking noir movie in my head right now. And it's so, it's just so good. I'm never gonna write it.

• 39:02Georgia Hardstark?

  He, he finds her at a dance hall known to be popular with American women called Madame Rossi's. You take me there in 1919, 2020.

• 39:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Because back then, the Italians were even more potent than they are now. You know what I mean? Madame Rossi was doing it.

• 39:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes. But as soon as the detective walks into the dance hall, he overhears a woman say, quote, "I'm tired of it. I'd give anything to get out of this place and go back home." End quote. And he turns around and realizes it's actually Faye, the person who's tracking.

• 39:33Karen Kilgariff?

  He walked right into-

• 39:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, so she doesn't even want to be there.

• 39:36Karen Kilgariff?

  You have to do that voice for the rest of the story, just FYI.

• 39:39Georgia Hardstark?

  He buys her a drink and eventually gets her to identify himself. No, it's terrible. So he buys her a drink and he's like, "You're Faye, right?" And she's like, "Yes, I don't want to be here." But Spokane can't get, Spokane police can't get Faye extradited. And it's not until months later, when she willingly crosses the border into Beaumont, Texas, because she, that she's finally arrested. So they just like waited her out in 1920s Mexico and to come home. And it worked.

• 40:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 40:10Georgia Hardstark?

  She serves three years in prison in Walla Walla and then moves to St. Louis, where she lives- A tall but relatively quiet life.

• 40:20Georgia Hardstark?

  I don't even know that was her anymore. Was she the tall one? They're both the tall one.

• 40:23Karen Kilgariff?

  I think Marie was, I can't remember.

• 40:25Georgia Hardstark?

  No. How can you expect us to remember these things?

• 40:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Listen.

• 40:29Georgia Hardstark?

  In 1944, 25 years, oh, 25 years. Which is, uh, which is how many in today's years?

• 40:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Forty-seven.

• 40:38Georgia Hardstark?

  That's right. In 1944, 25 years after William McNutt's murder, the Spokane County Sheriff talks about the efforts to find Will and Marie, because they never found those two siblings to bring them to justice, saying, quote, "The search has gone from Havana, Cuba to Petersburg, Alaska, but we haven't caught up with Will." It's also like, you guys had so much fun looking for them in Havana, Cuba, and Petersburg, Alaska.

• 41:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Vacation, vacation.

• 41:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Exactly.

• 41:07Georgia Hardstark?

  They say, "We were reasonably sure he was in Havana in 1924, but the Cuban authorities failed to arrest him, saying that he wasn't the right man." That sounds passive aggressive. "In 1928, we had reason to believe he was running whiskey between Key West and Havana, but again, he slipped away before he was arrested," end quote. Will and Marie are never found.

• 41:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 41:28Georgia Hardstark?

  And never brought to justice. And that is the story of the infamous McDonald's siblings and the sad, technically unsolved murder of Will McNutt.

• 41:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Wow.

• 41:38Georgia Hardstark?

  That's Will McNutt.

• 41:39Karen Kilgariff?

  There he is.

• 41:42Georgia Hardstark?

  It's a terrible photo. Sorry.

• 41:46Karen Kilgariff?

  And that, that's from his Instagram, you're saying?

• 41:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, that's, he's got that filter on it, the FaceTime.

• 41:53Karen Kilgariff?

  I love the historical, uh, yeah. What happened?

• 41:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh! Oh, thank you, baby!

• 42:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Vince Avril, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you.

• 42:07Karen Kilgariff?

  Thank you so much.

• 42:08Georgia Hardstark?

  You got it.

• 42:09Karen Kilgariff?

  It's that email we were talking about earlier.

• 42:12Georgia Hardstark?

  They're still not here.

• 42:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Is that? Oh, okay.

• 42:16Karen Kilgariff?

  Great job.

• 42:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Thank you.

• 42:18Karen Kilgariff?

  It's fun to do historical.

• 42:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 42:19Karen Kilgariff?

  And imagine and think about all the things you don't know about from history.

• 42:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. Like all the things that are lost.

• 42:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Also, you were talking about, like, the story started in 1919 and I immediately was like, that's from Laura Ingalls Wilder time.

• 42:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Just anything.

• 42:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Just anything.

• 42:38Georgia Hardstark?

  When is Laura? I don't even know.

• 42:39Karen Kilgariff?

  18... 1870?

• 42:42Georgia Hardstark?

  1870.

• 42:43Karen Kilgariff?

  Laura, are you here tonight? Ladies and gentlemen.

• 42:49Karen Kilgariff?

  That'd be incredible. What a guest spot.

• 42:52Georgia Hardstark?

  I mean...

• 42:52Karen Kilgariff?

  Sorry, Nick Terry.

• 42:55Georgia Hardstark?

  That would be a gut.

• 42:58Georgia Hardstark?

  The holidays are right around the corner, which means people are about to do a lot of shopping.

• 43:02Karen Kilgariff?

  And if you have a small business, they could be shopping with you.

• 43:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Get your business ready with Shopify.

• 43:07Karen Kilgariff?

  Shopify is the platform for a record-breaking, reliable holiday selling season at every stage.

• 43:12Georgia Hardstark?

  They power millions of businesses worldwide, from household names to those that are just getting started.

• 43:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Shopify's pre-built website themes make it easy to launch a beautiful, professional-looking store without ever touching a line of code.

• 43:23Georgia Hardstark?

  And Shopify's mobile app lets you run your store from anywhere, from tracking inventory to customer support to handling payments and more.

• 43:30Karen Kilgariff?

  If you're ready to launch your business before Black Friday, go to Shopify.com/murder to start your free trial.

• 43:36Georgia Hardstark?

  That's Shopify.com/murder.

• 43:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Go to Shopify.com/murder today to hear your first...

• 43:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Goodbye.

• 43:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Cozy season is nearly upon us.

• 43:47Georgia Hardstark?

  That means crisp weather and soft layers.

• 43:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Prepare accordingly with fall staples from Bombas.

• 43:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Bombas has your favorite footwear for fall, including new suede moccasins with cushy soles, shearling lining, and water-resistant suede, plus soft slippers, slides, and booties.

• 44:02Karen Kilgariff?

  There's a Bombas sock for pretty much any fall occasion, from warm merino wool blends to sweat-wicking sports socks and dressier options for weddings.

• 44:10Georgia Hardstark?

  And for every Bombas item purchased, they donated an essential clothing item to someone facing housing insecurity, with more than 200 million items donated so far. Okay, so when fall comes around, I have a pair of the Bombas booties, pretty much in... In every room so I can grab them when my feet inevitably become freezing, which they are constantly. And they're so comfy. You can wear them around the house. I wear them to bed and they just make everything feel a little cozier.

• 44:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Head over to bombas.com/mfm and use code MFM for 20% off your first purchase.

• 44:42Georgia Hardstark?

  That's B-O-M-B-A-S dot com slash MFM, code MFM at checkout.

• 44:48Karen Kilgariff?

  Goodbye. We've all had moments where dealing with healthcare or insurance feels completely overwhelming.

• 44:54Georgia Hardstark?

  You're sick, worried about someone you love, trying to understand what comes next, and suddenly you're spending hours on hold, filling out paperwork and trying to figure out who to call.

• 45:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Research shows patients spend the equivalent of an eight-hour workday every month coordinating their own care.

• 45:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Nobody hands you a roadmap when you're dealing with a diagnosis or ongoing health issues.

• 45:13Karen Kilgariff?

  That's why there's Solace Health.

• 45:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Solace provides personal healthcare advocates who average 16 years of healthcare experience and can help you get answers fast.

• 45:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Think of them as someone in your corner who understands the healthcare system and can handle the logistics while you focus on your health.

• 45:27Georgia Hardstark?

  They can help with appointments, insurance denials, medical bills, treatment options, and understanding doctor recommendations.

• 45:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Research shows 92% of patients report a positive impact on their care from working with an advocate.

• 45:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Advocacy improves outcomes and Solace advocates are covered by insurance nationwide.

• 45:43Karen Kilgariff?

  Eligibility varies by insurance plan.

• 45:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Advocates do not provide medical or legal advice or services must be 18 years or older.

• 45:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Go to solacehealth.com/murder to see if you qualify.

• 45:53Georgia Hardstark?

  It takes about two minutes and it's covered by insurance.

• 45:56Karen Kilgariff?

  That's S-O-L-A-C-E health dot com slash murder.

• 46:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Goodbye.

• 46:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Are you ready for this?

• 46:03Georgia Hardstark?

  I am.

• 46:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay. This is... Well, to tell my story tonight, I have to do a quick refresher on a story you already told on our podcast. And most of the people in this room probably don't need this refresher, but man, did I.

• 46:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Probably do.

• 46:19Karen Kilgariff?

  You, the person who told the story the first time? Okay. Well, then let's all talk like we've never heard this before.

• 46:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 46:26Karen Kilgariff?

  This is one of the Pacific Northwest's most infamous crimes. It's the case of D.B. Cooper and the hijacking.

• 46:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh yeah.

• 46:36Karen Kilgariff?

  We know it, we love it, we theorize about it.

• 46:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes.

• 46:40Karen Kilgariff?

  We say, "Where did he get those sunglasses? Why can't I have those sunglasses?" And on and on. What I learned when I was writing this cold open is that, did you know, and you probably told me this, so the answer's probably yes, that his name, the fake name that the man actually did, he gave was Dave.

• 46:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Dan, Dave, Dan. I know. I fucking know that.

• 47:03Karen Kilgariff?

  It's a D.A. man name.

• 47:04Georgia Hardstark?

  500 episodes, you guys. 10 years. I would have sworn it was Dan.

• 47:12Karen Kilgariff?

  Listen, we try to make it worth your money buying these tickets by showing you all the mistakes that get cut out of the main episodes, right?

• 47:20Georgia Hardstark?

  The beauty of the live show is you're gonna see...

• 47:22Karen Kilgariff?

  It's au naturel.

• 47:24Georgia Hardstark?

  The extra fuck-ups.

• 47:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, so that's episode 272, drag-alongs, if you want to catch up. But here are the Cliff's Notes, if not. So, the day before Thanksgiving, 1971, a man using fake named... What'd you say? What name did you say?

• 47:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Dan.

• 47:40Karen Kilgariff?

  You were right. You were right. I just saw it, yeah. Take a victory lap, take a full victory lap.

• 47:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Well, it's gotta show the...

• 47:52Karen Kilgariff?

  Yep.

• 47:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow, that feels great.

• 47:55Karen Kilgariff?

  Incredible job, you really did it.

• 47:57Georgia Hardstark?

  You take it where you can get it, you know?

• 47:59Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right.

• 47:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Dave, because they didn't have Dave in the 70s, did they?

• 48:02Karen Kilgariff?

  No, not at all, there was not one Dave. Okay, he gets on the 235 flight from Portland to Seattle. Shortly after takeoff, he passes a folded note to the stewardess sitting behind him, they were called that then.

• 48:18Karen Kilgariff?

  I think the McNuts are here. Oh no, wrong side.

• 48:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Someone has to pee. Oh, oh, they are.

• 48:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Wrong side. So, Dan passes a note to the flight attendant sitting behind him, and she immediately takes it and puts it in her purse without reading it.

• 48:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, that's right. But she thinks he's hitting on her.

• 48:37Karen Kilgariff?

  She's like, "Go away, gross man, in sunglasses."

• 48:40Georgia Hardstark?

  This again.

• 48:41Karen Kilgariff?

  He leans over and says, "Miss, you better have a look at that note. I have a bomb." She locks eyes with him, they fall deeply in love.

• 48:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Aww.

• 48:52Karen Kilgariff?

  Actually, what he does is he opens up her bag and he shows her what to her looks like four sticks of dynamite with wires attached. He then dictates his demands to her as she takes notes. And as he dictates those notes, they lock eyes and fall madly in love. Sorry, see, this is how I waste time. In the morning, I drink a bunch of coffee and I'm like, this is hilarious. And it's like, it's not, though. The flight attendant brings this list to the cockpit. The pilot is apprised of the situation. He radios CTAC, air traffic control, saying he needs $200,000, two sets of parachutes, to be ready when they land in Seattle. And that when that money comes on board, all the passengers will be released.

• 49:36Karen Kilgariff?

  And they are, the plane is refueled, they head back toward Mexico. Dan demands that they lower the staircase in the plane. The pilot says, "That's bad for flying." He says, "I don't give a shit, I know you can do it." Then they do it. He jumps out of that fucking plane.

• 49:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Do you think he wanted to do like a, um, like a Frank Sinatra, like step, kind of a step thing? "I did it my way." Whoa!

• 50:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Sunglasses fly off.

• 50:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay. Oh, there he is.

• 50:11Karen Kilgariff?

  There he is. We've been talking about him this whole time. And actually, now those sunglasses are back in fashion. And I just want all the ladies in here that have those real narrow cross sunglasses, I want to let you know that much like eyebrow blindness from the 2010s, you're going to regret those sunglasses.

• 50:31Karen Kilgariff?

  It's not that you're not gorgeous, it's just that they're so fucking stupid looking.

• 50:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Let Grandma tell you about fashion. So.

• 50:45Karen Kilgariff?

  He jumps out somewhere near Mount St. Helens he has never seen again. Some people think that that man is Richard Floyd McCoy. I covered that in episode 438. Why is there all these plugs for our shows?

• 51:02Georgia Hardstark?

  We wish you guys would listen.

• 51:05Karen Kilgariff?

  They're like, "We literally can't do more for you." But I tell you all of that tonight because there was a story in 2008 that very much, we can say, parallels the story of D.B. Cooper. It's another heist that happens up here. Very similar, some call it the modern-day D.B. Cooper case. This is the story of the 2008 robbery by D.B. Tuber.

• 51:32Georgia Hardstark?

  What?

• 51:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 51:34Georgia Hardstark?

  I can't believe we haven't talked about... Never mind.

• 51:36Karen Kilgariff?

  What? Bring it up now.

• 51:38Georgia Hardstark?

  The Louvre?

• 51:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, yeah.

• 51:39Georgia Hardstark?

  The heist?

• 51:40Karen Kilgariff?

  The chainsaw heist.

• 51:41Georgia Hardstark?

  I don't want to talk about it.

• 51:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, I do want to talk about it.

• 51:46Georgia Hardstark?

  I did it. It turns out I did it.

• 51:49Karen Kilgariff?

  How did you do that in between tour dates?

• 51:51Georgia Hardstark?

  I can't, yeah.

• 51:52Karen Kilgariff?

  You shouldn't talk about it.

• 51:53Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 51:54Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay. How is that tiara, though? Is it amazing? I love the idea that you're just going to steal the most famous jewels in the world and then just be like, "Sure, I'll sell them down."

• 52:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. Someone's going to wear this crown to the fucking debutante ball. I don't know.

• 52:12Karen Kilgariff?

  Sure. I can probably get 50 grand for this thing.

• 52:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Did you notice my pearls?

• 52:15Karen Kilgariff?

  They are gorgeous.

• 52:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Clutching my pearls. Everyone loves pearls.

• 52:19Karen Kilgariff?

  Clutch those. Get ready, because there's a lot of clutchy moments in this story. The sources that Maren used for this story are the 2014 episode of 2020 about it, entitled "The Almost Perfect Robbery." A 2010 article by writer David Kushner for GQ entitled "The All-American Bank Heist" and write-ups attributed to the FBI's Seattle Division. Some great writers in Seattle's FBI, so please read their substack.

• 52:45Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm sorry I keep doing this, but one of my main sources was Jim Kirschner.

• 52:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Do you think they're brothers? Do you think they're like, "This is David Kushner"?

• 52:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Then never mind. They're half-brothers.

• 52:58Karen Kilgariff?

  And then you're like, "Wait, it's Dan Kushner."

• 53:02Karen Kilgariff?

  They're half brothers.

• 53:06Karen Kilgariff?

  So to tell this story, first, we have to meet the man that it all centers around, the D.B. Cooper of the story, if you will. He is not a mystery man. His name is Anthony Curcio, and he is known as the, quote, "golden boy of Monroe, Washington."

• 53:24Georgia Hardstark?

  For sure, sure.

• 53:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes. For all you out-of-towners.

• 53:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Welcome to Monroe. You guys, it's fucking adorable.

• 53:36Karen Kilgariff?

  It's so cute. Keep that up while I tell you all this information. It's a small town on the outskirts of the Seattle area. Population just under 20,000, according to the 2020 census. You know for its 150-foot steam stack, which is the last remnant of the carnation milk condensary plant that burned down in 1944.

• 53:56Georgia Hardstark?

  There it is.

• 53:56Karen Kilgariff?

  There she is.

• 53:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Under mysterious circumstances, or just burned down?

• 54:01Karen Kilgariff?

  We don't talk about the carnation milk condensary fire around Monroe.

• 54:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 54:09Karen Kilgariff?

  It's also the hometown of professional wrestler Yukon Eric.

• 54:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh.

• 54:13Karen Kilgariff?

  And the Stephen Ray Morris impersonator Benson Boone.

• 54:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Really?

• 54:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 54:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, the pride of Monroe, Washington.

• 54:24Karen Kilgariff?

  The pride of Monroe.

• 54:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Cute.

• 54:25Karen Kilgariff?

  He used to go smoke cigarettes on top of that smokestack and dream of a day he could have a mustache.

• 54:33Georgia Hardstark?

  I'd like, I would move there right this very moment if you asked me to.

• 54:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Hell, yeah.

• 54:38Georgia Hardstark?

  I mean, no, it's terrible. It's the worst.

• 54:41Karen Kilgariff?

  You guys, don't you dare.

• 54:43Georgia Hardstark?

  No, I was saying no.

• 54:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Don't you dare talk bad about Monroe.

• 54:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Is it the Orange County of Washington? No, worse?

• 54:50Karen Kilgariff?

  They're jealous because they don't have a creamery smokestack. And they never have. Okay. Sorry.

• 54:57Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm not moving there.

• 55:00Karen Kilgariff?

  We've all decided you're not going to. Okay, so Anthony's born and raised in Monroe. His parents run a very successful landscaping business. His dad is a former football star from the University of Idaho. Basically, hmm.

• 55:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Basically, everyone in Monroe knows the Curcio family. And like his father, Anthony, when he gets to high school, he becomes a football star. I think the boys don't have a choice when their dad is a football star. Unless, of course, they get a nose ring. And then, oh my god, time to join a band. So he's basically, this guy's basically the jock from every teen movie. He's good-looking, he has tons of friends, he's the star wide receiver on the Monroe High football team. And just to be extra corny, he is dating Emily, the captain of the cheerleading squad.

• 55:52Georgia Hardstark?

  They're never dating the cut nerds.

• 55:54Karen Kilgariff?

  Look at him. Did you see Anthony Curcio at the kegger last night? Oh my god.

• 56:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, it's just 100% what you think it would be. And you know, it's funny because I don't know if we're like mad at him yet because I don't know the story, so.

• 56:12Karen Kilgariff?

  I don't think you have to be mad at him.

• 56:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, great.

• 56:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Unless, of course, you're jealous of his beautiful face and shirt. Okay. When he graduates, Anthony is offered an athletic scholarship to the University of Idaho where his father went. That part gave me a stomach ache. It's all going so well for Anthony, but the pendulum must always swing. She must always swing. Too much coffee. And then I wrote, "One day you're up, the next day you're down." That's life. That's called overwriting. That's called overstaying your welcome in the joke.

• 56:50Karen Kilgariff?

  So, he makes it to his sophomore year in college, and then, one day at practice, he hears, oh, sorry.

• 57:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Sorry.

• 57:02Karen Kilgariff?

  He tears his ACL, but I was saying he hears himself tear his ACL.

• 57:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, I bet you can't hear it.

• 57:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Like a pop. And then a fizz.

• 57:13Karen Kilgariff?

  And then basically, for all intents and purposes, his football career is over.

• 57:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Bummer.

• 57:19Karen Kilgariff?

  So what happens is that while he is on the mend, he's prescribed Vicodin for the pain. But he can't play, of course. And then he's hanging out with his friends, and he's going to more parties than he usually goes to. And then the balance shifts. He will later say, quote, "I was depressed that my whole identity wrapped around sports was gone. Now I was just a student. I latched on to the painkillers, and within a few prescriptions, my football dream was gone. The pills had me."

• 57:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Ouch.

• 57:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Horrifying.

• 57:51Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 57:52Karen Kilgariff?

  There's so many just innocent people that had an injury, and their doctor was like, "Hey, would you like heroin and a pill?" And they're like, "Oh, I guess so. I mean, you're the doctor." And boom.

• 58:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 58:03Karen Kilgariff?

  It's horrible.

• 58:04Georgia Hardstark?

  It's awful.

• 58:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Did someone just yell, "That happened to my dad"? What's going on?

• 58:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, so this is the early 2000s.

• 58:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Wait, or did they say that was my dad, like, the doctor? Like, their dad was the doctor?

• 58:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, we can't talk about your dad right now. I'm sure he was a wonderful physician, but we have this fucking show to wrap up. I'm only on page four, Maureen. Okay.

• 58:34Karen Kilgariff?

  So when Anthony's Vicodin prescription runs out, he gets desperate. He steals pills out of his friends' medicine cabinets. Who hasn't? He forges prescriptions, which, depending on the drug, can be a federal crime. So everyone in this room knows. Yes. And then inevitably, he turns to street drugs. And then soon, his addiction pivots to cocaine. And I know what you're thinking. He's gonna get into day trading and wearing Patagonia fleece vests all the time.

• 59:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Straighten it out.

• 59:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Right?

• 59:07Karen Kilgariff?

  But before he goes that far, Anthony admits he's powerless over that white devil cocaine. And with the love and support of his family, he gets help with his addiction, and he does get sober. He graduates from college. Yeah, sure. That's a hard thing to do.

• 59:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Hell, yeah.

• 59:23Karen Kilgariff?

  When you're on a combination of Vicodin and fucking cocaine.

• 59:26Georgia Hardstark?

  No, dude.

• 59:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Jesus.

• 59:28Georgia Hardstark?

  It's rough.

• 59:28Karen Kilgariff?

  That's the first time I took pills. I was like, "Never take these again. These are... This is too easy. This is too good."

• 59:37Georgia Hardstark?

  And you never did.

• 59:38Karen Kilgariff?

  And I never did another joke again, mommy.

• 59:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Then he graduates from college, I said that, moves back to Monroe and marries Emily, his high school sweetheart.

• 59:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 59:50Karen Kilgariff?

  So even though Anthony's dreams of the NFL are over, his real life is very good. Him and Emily have two children, they earn a good living flipping houses. What if this was actually the secret story of Chip and Joanna Gaines? And I was just...

• 1:00:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my god.

• 1:00:08Karen Kilgariff?

  Covering it up.

• 1:00:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Like, I would like them so much.

• 1:00:11Karen Kilgariff?

  So the Curciros, they drive NASCARs, they have a vacation home. On the surface, Anthony has earned back his status as Monroe's golden boy. Isn't it big of a deal to be a golden boy if it's in Monroe? Apparently, what you're telling us is it's not.

• 1:00:29Karen Kilgariff?

  But again, being the golden boy, he gets to go touch the milk condensers steam stack whenever he wants to.

• 1:00:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Amazing.

• 1:00:39Georgia Hardstark?

  There it is.

• 1:00:40Karen Kilgariff?

  Touch it.

• 1:00:43Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, but, but, but, 2008 hits and the housing market crashes and Anthony's entire livelihood goes out the window because, as I said, that pendulum, she-well swing. He picks up work with his parents' landscaping business. It's not enough to cover his bills. Before long, his family's financial problems are so enormous that they are actually in danger of losing their house. Been there, horrifying nightmare. I recommend starting a podcast with your friend.

• 1:01:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Really helps.

• 1:01:16Karen Kilgariff?

  Work for us.

• 1:01:19Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, thank you, guys, by the way. That was you.

• 1:01:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Thank you.

• 1:01:22Karen Kilgariff?

  You did it.

• 1:01:25Karen Kilgariff?

  So crazy.

• 1:01:28Georgia Hardstark?

  I never had a house to lose.

• 1:01:34Karen Kilgariff?

  You're like, "I did that."

• 1:01:39Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, so with all those external stressors, Anthony relapses, but secretly Emily has no idea. He's only in his late twenties.

• 1:01:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:01:50Karen Kilgariff?

  So, you know, he thought he was gonna live this life. And now it pivots and he's making the best of this life. And then, of course, outer life goes, "Watch your step, friend."

• 1:01:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. You guys don't start worrying until you're like hard 48, you know?

• 1:02:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Like, yeah, right?

• 1:02:06Karen Kilgariff?

  There's plenty of chances to do all the things this guy's about to do. It is wild.

• 1:02:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 1:02:13Karen Kilgariff?

  So, he's now back to losing everything to his drug addiction for a second time. And he finds himself sitting in the parking lot of a Jack in the Box. And these are dark times.

• 1:02:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:26Karen Kilgariff?

  How many times have you sat in your car quietly in a fast food parking lot like, "I'm fucked."

• 1:02:32Georgia Hardstark?

  This is it.

• 1:02:33Karen Kilgariff?

  I'm fucked.

• 1:02:33Georgia Hardstark?

  This is fucking, this is rock bottom, yeah.

• 1:02:36Karen Kilgariff?

  And when you're in that situation, I recommend a sourdough Jack. Because it's simple, it's clean. The flavor profile is very satisfying, but you don't have to think a lot about it. No lettuce.

• 1:02:49Georgia Hardstark?

  I fucked up the other day. There was a Jack in the Box near our office and I was starving after we recorded. And I went through the drive-through. It was the biggest mistake.

• 1:02:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Did you go crazy with that, like, dollar meal or something where you're...

• 1:03:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Because I didn't know what I wanted because I was starving and I wanted to shove something in my face. Eating a burger in the car isn't gonna work, so I...

• 1:03:07Karen Kilgariff?

  Can I guess?

• 1:03:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes.

• 1:03:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Chicken strips.

• 1:03:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Chicken nuggets, like, not even good, like, not even close to real chicken.

• 1:03:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:16Georgia Hardstark?

  The tacos, though.

• 1:03:17Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, stop it.

• 1:03:19Georgia Hardstark?

  My god, they're so fucking good.

• 1:03:21Karen Kilgariff?

  The tacos are like you get to open a little piece of foil and it's like, "High school, ah!"

• 1:03:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, it's like a cracker, it's like a taco cracker, anyway.

• 1:03:30Karen Kilgariff?

  A taco cracker with grease poured into it. It's like they cook them and they open them back up and they're like, "Get the orange grease and drip it in."

• 1:03:39Georgia Hardstark?

  And there's lettuce, so it's healthy.

• 1:03:41Karen Kilgariff?

  There is lettuce, but it's hot lettuce. And that is a brave choice. It's a brave culinary choice.

• 1:03:47Georgia Hardstark?

  It was good.

• 1:03:48Karen Kilgariff?

  When we start our Cuisines Podcast, we are going to destroy... Okay.

• 1:03:56Karen Kilgariff?

  Reset to where we are.

• 1:03:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Stop it, yes, right, this is important.

• 1:03:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Jack in the Box parking lot, Dark Knight of the Soul.

• 1:04:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 1:04:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Anthony is angry for what's happening with the economy and his family. He's angry at the banks. And he's right. Uh, but he's also angry because he's on drugs. And he is desperate to keep feeding his addiction at all costs. So, uh, what's going on inside his drug-addled mind as he sits in his car in the parking, Jack in the Box parking lot, um, is all that, you know, whose fault is it? I'm so angry. And as he's staring out, he watches a Brink's truck pull up in front of the Bank of America across the street. He watches the Brink's guards hop out, transporting big bags of cash into, or perhaps out of, I'm not sure, allegedly, the bank. And this gets him thinking.

• 1:04:49Karen Kilgariff?

  He thinks, if I just had one of those bags, all of my problems would be solved. And here's a quote he later gives about this moment in his life. He says, quote, "I was fucked and I thought I could fix everything. I just wanted to be the hero again."

• 1:05:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Mmm.

• 1:05:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Anthony. So, if you, right now, your only elective in high school is football, go ahead and take a music class.

• 1:05:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:05:17Karen Kilgariff?

  How about, how about some fun writing classes? Just see, just to see. Let's have several safety nets, please. So when Anthony gets home, he Googles the phrase armored truck robbery.

• 1:05:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, no. Oh, man.

• 1:05:34Karen Kilgariff?

  He was just trying to get a little information.

• 1:05:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Sure.

• 1:05:38Karen Kilgariff?

  The more he reads-

• 1:05:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Who among us hasn't? Everyone has that in their search history, right?

• 1:05:42Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, that's right.

• 1:05:43Georgia Hardstark?

  But only a few of us have done it.

• 1:05:44Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right.

• 1:05:49Karen Kilgariff?

  I, I, I wish we had our phones so we could just read each other our most recent Google search history.

• 1:05:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, God.

• 1:05:56Karen Kilgariff?

  Mine is definitely which one is stronger, Vicodin or whatever the fuck other thing he was taking. Something like that.

• 1:06:03Georgia Hardstark?

  But not for yourself.

• 1:06:04Karen Kilgariff?

  What? No, not at all.

• 1:06:07Karen Kilgariff?

  Not in the least.

• 1:06:09Georgia Hardstark?

  But Vince comes out here with both our phones and he's like, "Do it."

• 1:06:12Karen Kilgariff?

  Do it. Read it.

• 1:06:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, so the more he reads, the more certain he is that he can pull one of these off. He goes for some light research to actual planning mode almost immediately. He's gonna rob the Brink's guards as they deliver money to that Bank of America in Monroe. So what he does is, he begins to case the bank in disguise. He puts on some generic landscaper clothing, because it's family business. But he also then goes and somehow gets some morticians' wax, the ones that morticians use to make people's faces look normal when they're for the viewing.

• 1:06:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:06:49Karen Kilgariff?

  And he uses that to obscure his facial features, because don't forget, he's the golden boy of Monroe.

• 1:06:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. No.

• 1:06:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 1:07:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Hello, everybody.

• 1:07:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Thanks, thanks, thanks.

• 1:07:05Georgia Hardstark?

  All right.

• 1:07:06Karen Kilgariff?

  The morticians, right underneath that smokestack, just directly beneath it. Okay, so he starts casing the building. He studies the entrances and exits, the number of staff, when the Brink's delivery and pickup schedule is, any escape routes. He gives it the full statham.

• 1:07:28Karen Kilgariff?

  And then I wrote here a little exchange.

• 1:07:32Karen Kilgariff?

  Do you want to do the first lady and I'll be the second lady?

• 1:07:34Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm first?

• 1:07:35Karen Kilgariff?

  You're first. And do a lady voice.

• 1:07:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Joan, was that the golden boy of Monroe I saw casing the B of A today?

• 1:07:42Karen Kilgariff?

  No, Maureen, don't be crazy. That was just a reanimated corpse from the funeral home pretending to trim a hedge.

• 1:07:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Sometimes, sometimes there's too much time to work on these stories.

• 1:07:56Karen Kilgariff?

  So.

• 1:08:00Karen Kilgariff?

  Anthony decides that the best bet for his escape route is to run out of the bank, across the busy intersection, and down into the local creek.

• 1:08:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 1:08:12Karen Kilgariff?

  That's drugs in action, my friends.

• 1:08:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:08:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Run it by someone.

• 1:08:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Drugs have the worst ideas.

• 1:08:19Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, wild.

• 1:08:23Karen Kilgariff?

  So he believes that if he could just stash a jet ski down in the creek...

• 1:08:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Fuuuuck.

• 1:08:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Fuck.

• 1:08:32Karen Kilgariff?

  We're getting into the territory of, uh, your friend's the bartender, the bar's closed, you've done some lines, and now you're just

• 1:08:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:39Karen Kilgariff?

  coming up with ideas.

• 1:08:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 1:08:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Mm-hmm. The problem is that the creek is less than two feet deep.

• 1:08:51Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. Oh, hey-o.

• 1:08:53Karen Kilgariff?

  There she is. There she is. It's not jet ski territory in any way, shape, or form.

• 1:08:59Georgia Hardstark?

  No, no.

• 1:09:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Gorgeous, though.

• 1:09:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Truly beautiful.

• 1:09:04Georgia Hardstark?

  It's kind of a dear.

• 1:09:06Karen Kilgariff?

  So, he's gonna steal the cash, run across the intersection in the light of day, climb down into the creek, get on his waiting jet ski, ride downstream a short way with stolen bags of cash, ditch that jet ski, climb back up out of the creek to a nearby road to his pre-parked get- every car and drive away.

• 1:09:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Is it? Okay.

• 1:09:25Karen Kilgariff?

  It's fun, it's easy, no one gets hurt. But what, and, when Anthony tests this plan out with an actual jet ski in that actual creek, he does a dry run, a wet run, but a lightly moist run, because there's hardly any fucking water.

• 1:09:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:41Karen Kilgariff?

  That's when he realizes that the plan isn't gonna work. The creek is too shallow.

• 1:09:46Georgia Hardstark?

  And he doesn't do it, and that's the end of the story.

• 1:09:47Karen Kilgariff?

  I wish it were.

• 1:09:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Instead of coming up with a new plan, Anthony spends upwards of seven hours a day for several weeks dredging the creek to make it deeper so he can ride a jet ski on it. Yes, he does. You can say no all you want. That's what happens.

• 1:10:06Georgia Hardstark?

  I refuse.

• 1:10:07Karen Kilgariff?

  You can't refuse.

• 1:10:09Georgia Hardstark?

  I mean, you might as well, like, ice it over and fucking ice skate away, like, for everything.

• 1:10:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Like Snoopy at the beginning of the Christmas special, where he's just like, "Now I have this money."

• 1:10:19Georgia Hardstark?

  It's, yeah, okay. Oh, okay. We don't wanna like, I don't wanna, you know, he, we, he needs But that is.

• 1:10:27Karen Kilgariff?

  It's great to have big ideas and get creative and try to push the boundaries, but you can't change the way fucking water works. You just, that's not on you. Okay. When he's done with his one-man civil engineering scheme, Anthony does another practice run with the jet ski in the creek. This time, he hits a big rock. So it's not just about getting the bottom lower.

• 1:10:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:55Karen Kilgariff?

  It's also then there's the other things in the creek that are difficult.

• 1:10:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Honey.

• 1:10:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Now he knows he has to let go of the jet ski plan. He goes back to the Jack-in-the-Box parking lot. And he cries into a taco.

• 1:11:10Karen Kilgariff?

  And then he goes back to the drawing board. And then he finally sees it so clearly. He needs to swap the jet ski for an inner tube.

• 1:11:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Because there was an inner tube in that picture. And I was like, don't mention it. Because there's no fucking way. It just was like in that photo.

• 1:11:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, it was like waiting like a little specter back there. Yeah.

• 1:11:34Karen Kilgariff?

  There she is. That's the real one he actually used. He literally like took his daughter's inner tube.

• 1:11:42Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 1:11:43Karen Kilgariff?

  And was like, quickly let daddy rob the Brim's truck.

• 1:11:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh my God, he like straight up lazy rivered that shit out of there. Holy shit.

• 1:11:52Karen Kilgariff?

  He lazy, he lazy rivered it.

• 1:11:56Karen Kilgariff?

  And you know what he did too? I don't, I don't know if it's right here or where it happened, but he actually nailed a wire from like one tree where he first ran into the creek. All the way down 200 yards to where he planned to come up out. So he was like doing this.

• 1:12:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, I mean, that makes sense. But it's also like fingerprint, fingerprint, fingerprint.

• 1:12:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Over and over again.

• 1:12:19Karen Kilgariff?

  Or just like, dude, just run down the goddamn block at this point. Now you're just kind of partying by yourself in the creek.

• 1:12:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Or at least get a stoner friend to do it with you. Like that's what creeks are for.

• 1:12:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 1:12:34Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:36Karen Kilgariff?

  So at this point, Anthony's been planning the robbery for several months. And he's almost ready to pull the trigger, but he has a couple of final tasks. The first order of business, he has to stash some supplies, including that inner tube, under a nearby dumpster. So that's, he basically is gonna squirrel away, very druggie. He's gonna squirrel away all the things he needs as he does this thing. When he does that, he is, it is, the action is witnessed by a 53-year-old man named Alan Dean. So Alan, uh, himself, this is Alan.

• 1:13:15Karen Kilgariff?

  This is from Alan's interview on 2020. Oh, wow. So you can go watch that episode. So at the time, Alan is experiencing homelessness, and he had been since the 90s, when a heart condition made it impossible for him to continue working as a carpenter. Um, and since that time, he'd been panhandling around Monroe. And his plan was to save up enough money to get a car so that he could drive back, uh, to the East Coast where his children live, because he had a family. Uh, he's a sharp guy, um, and by his own telling, he stays sharp by buying two newspapers every day. He reads them cover to cover, and then he does the crossword puzzles, every single day without fail.

• 1:13:57Karen Kilgariff?

  So when he sees Anthony, uh, roll up into that dumpster and hide the inner tube. Oh, wow, yeah. Along with a huge can of mace, a wig, and other suspicious items. Alan puts two and two together, and he yells over to Anthony, "I'm on to you!"

• 1:14:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, no.

• 1:14:20Karen Kilgariff?

  I've seen this before, inner tube, wig, mace, I know what you're doing, bank. Oh, man. It's also a very fun thing to yell at a stranger at any time, just like. Yes. Right? Across the street, they're walking this way, you're walking that. I'm on you!

• 1:14:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Of course, Anthony is very rattled by this. Because he's doing something, he's planning something illegal. And he's on drugs. He doesn't know Alan, he's never seen him before. But he just ultimately brushes the comment off. He decides to leave all the items where they are because even though someone's on to him, that's fine.

• 1:14:58Georgia Hardstark?

  It doesn't mean he's a snitch.

• 1:15:00Karen Kilgariff?

  And he's probably just so focused on like me and that inner tube and the wire. It's gonna be amazing.

• 1:15:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:06Karen Kilgariff?

  He will later admit that he underestimated Alan, thinking, quote, "Well, maybe if he's homeless, maybe if he's been drinking, maybe he won't remember my description." But Anthony could not be more mistaken. Alan will later say, quote, "He probably thought, 'Just an old tramp. He ain't gonna do nothing. He ain't gonna write my tag number down.'" Wrong. Game over.

• 1:15:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh my god.

• 1:15:32Karen Kilgariff?

  Wrong, game over.

• 1:15:35Karen Kilgariff?

  This is Alan's time to shine.

• 1:15:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Game over. I'm on to you. Like, he's got them all.

• 1:15:40Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, he does. So Alan, basically, when he sees Anthony do all of this, he grabs his crossword pencil and he write downs Anthony's license plate number.

• 1:15:51Georgia Hardstark?

  Shit.

• 1:15:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Meanwhile, Anthony's busy checking the last item off of his to-do list. Hiring decoys. What's that you say?

• 1:16:03Karen Kilgariff?

  What he does, and this is, I mean, here's the thing. All this energy and creativity. He really made a plan and he really got something going. Just for bad reasons, but there's a lot of creativity involved. And he's good-looking, so let's defend him.

• 1:16:20Karen Kilgariff?

  He posts a fake landscaping job on Craigslist under the name Clean Monroe Beautification Project. They add claims to pay $28.50 an hour.

• 1:16:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Damn.

• 1:16:31Karen Kilgariff?

  Do you know how much that is in today's money?

• 1:16:33Georgia Hardstark?

  It's probably less, actually.

• 1:16:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Right?

• 1:16:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, it's less than you can't get an abortion, so...

• 1:16:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Did you not know?

• 1:16:51Karen Kilgariff?

  A very nice wage during the Great Recession. That's a weird line.

• 1:16:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Do you want to guess on my?

• 1:16:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. Okay, I'm gonna go...

• 1:17:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Thirty-nine, fifty-three.

• 1:17:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Forty-two.

• 1:17:04Georgia Hardstark?

  God damn it.

• 1:17:05Karen Kilgariff?

  You know, now I'm on your side. It's not fun.

• 1:17:07Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm saying, let's get rid of this.

• 1:17:08Karen Kilgariff?

  It's so hard, though. It's fun to guess. Okay, about fifteen people respond to this fake job listing. Anthony follows up with the start time of 11:00 a.m. on Tuesday, September 30th. He says they need to report to the strip of pavement between the Jack in the Box and the Bank of America.

• 1:17:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Shut up!

• 1:17:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 1:17:28Karen Kilgariff?

  I meet my friends there all the time. It's so gorgeous. Have you been to Monroe?

• 1:17:33Georgia Hardstark?

  It's so gorgeous. I can't keep turning around. I truly can't.

• 1:17:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Just give the guy one second. He wasn't even paying attention.

• 1:17:41Karen Kilgariff?

  I'm really sorry. I won't do it again. Okay.

• 1:17:46Karen Kilgariff?

  He tells them they need to wear a yellow safety vest, a blue hat, a blue shirt, a face mask, and safety glasses.

• 1:17:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow, I mean, these people...

• 1:17:55Karen Kilgariff?

  This is the 2020 episode reenactment of what that looked like. No joke.

• 1:18:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Because they all have the same Adidas on, too.

• 1:18:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Wait, this could be AI.

• 1:18:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, shit.

• 1:18:07Karen Kilgariff?

  No, it's not. It's not.

• 1:18:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay. Wow, okay. I mean, that's... This is kind of brilliant.

• 1:18:12Karen Kilgariff?

  It's getting, right?

• 1:18:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:14Karen Kilgariff?

  So, here's what happens. So, they're all standing there. They're waiting for the boss to show up to tell them what to do. And what they don't know is the boss is already there, because there's this landscaper that's over in front of, like, the bushes in front of Jack in the Box that's spraying, like, you know, pesticides or something horrifying. Brown... He's just rounding up all of Jack in the Box. And he's dressed in the exact same clothes, but he's wearing that wig that he loves so much that he had stashed away. At 11:05 a.m., when the Brink's truck rolls into the Bank of America parking lot, Anthony drops the sprayer. He grabs the can of mace that he's stashed nearby and makes a beeline

• 1:18:57Karen Kilgariff?

  for the Brink's guards, who are on their way into the bank carrying a bag of cash that has $400,000 inside.

• 1:19:05Karen Kilgariff?

  And that's around 600 in today's money. And that's the actual, this is the spot. This is the real crime scene, right here.

• 1:19:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 1:19:12Karen Kilgariff?

  So according to reports, Anthony sprays the guards with enough mace to quote stun a thousand pound grizzly bear.

• 1:19:20Georgia Hardstark?

  What are they even making an hour, them? Like, fuck that, okay.

• 1:19:25Karen Kilgariff?

  It feels so high risk.

• 1:19:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:28Karen Kilgariff?

  But, you know, hopefully they make, they make more than 28.50 an hour, or whatever the other thing was. So, of course, the guards scream in pain. They drop the bag. Anthony grabs it and he runs across the busy intersection and down into the creek.

• 1:19:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 1:19:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Even though he's wearing a wig and a face mask, many people watch him flee in the direction of the creek, and he's also almost hit by a truck.

• 1:19:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, okay.

• 1:19:54Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. Authorities are called, and when the two Monroe City detectives, Detective Barry Hatch and Detective Tim Buzz Bazell, sure.

• 1:20:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Buzz's family is here tonight.

• 1:20:09Karen Kilgariff?

  When they arrive on the scene, it's filled with 15 confused day workers standing around, wondering what the hell is going on, all dressed exactly like the description of the thief.

• 1:20:20Georgia Hardstark?

  No, yeah, it's really fucking brilliant.

• 1:20:21Karen Kilgariff?

  It's so smart.

• 1:20:22Georgia Hardstark?

  It's so smart.

• 1:20:23Karen Kilgariff?

  Uh, do I get my 30 bucks or what?

• 1:20:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:20:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:31Karen Kilgariff?

  Do, do, do. So before long, the detectives have collective witness statements describing their perp as tall, thin, and running with a Brink's bag under his arm, quote, "like a football." Sure.

• 1:20:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh.

• 1:20:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Like a golden boy would. When they inspect Wood Creek, they find the abandoned black and yellow inner tube with a picture of a bee on it, about 200 yards down the creek, along with a pair of discarded safety glasses, a wig, and a face mask. The face mask has saliva on it. They process the mask as DNA evidence, but there are no matches in the system.

• 1:21:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 1:21:12Karen Kilgariff?

  I can't believe you're on Anthony's side.

• 1:21:16Karen Kilgariff?

  Guys, Emily's here tonight, ladies and gentlemen.

• 1:21:19Georgia Hardstark?

  You fucking badass.

• 1:21:21Karen Kilgariff?

  No matches in this system because Anthony does not have a record.

• 1:21:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 1:21:25Karen Kilgariff?

  So, this is when detectives Buzz and Hatch learn that they should meet Pearl McNutt.

• 1:21:34Karen Kilgariff?

  They learn that three weeks earlier, a tipster had reported what were referred to as robbery-type items under a dumpster near the bank, along with the license plate number of the person who put those items there.

• 1:21:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Man.

• 1:21:47Karen Kilgariff?

  And when the detectives run that license plate number, they trace the car to the Curcio family.

• 1:21:51Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, it's so, so quick.

• 1:21:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:54Georgia Hardstark?

  You know, give him a day with that money, you know?

• 1:21:56Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, he gets a, he gets a couple of days.

• 1:21:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 1:22:00Karen Kilgariff?

  Because before they go talk to the family, they want to confirm the tipster's story, and it takes a little time, tracking down Alan, and they basically ask around town, you know, it's word of mouth, you know, who this guy is, whatever. And they finally find him, and when they first walk up to him, he yells, "It's, it's about time you got here."

• 1:22:27Karen Kilgariff?

  And then he said, "I'm on to you," but real quiet, real scary.

• 1:22:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Cause he is.

• 1:22:32Karen Kilgariff?

  Cause he is, fully.

• 1:22:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:34Karen Kilgariff?

  He actually had read all about the robbery in the newspaper, and he was like, "I'm waiting for you to fucking come and talk to me. I know exactly what happened in this robbery."

• 1:22:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Amazing.

• 1:22:43Karen Kilgariff?

  You fools. Okay. Meanwhile, across town, Anthony cannot believe he has pulled off this big heist. What he actually did was he, he ran back up out of the creek, and he walked through an apartment complex, he stole a shirt, like a white polo shirt that was kind of too small for him, and then he walked into a real estate office, and because he does house flipping, they kind of knew who he was, and of course, the Curcio family is very known in Monroe. And so he was like, "Hey, can I use your phone? My phone died." He calls his friend to come pick it up, pick him up, and he, that's his getaway car. But nobody really knows that that's what's happening. Except for if they looked down, they would have seen that his shoes were wet.

• 1:23:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay. Not the weirdest thing. Where's the money? I'm sorry, I'm really worried about this money. Where's the big bag of money?

• 1:23:33Karen Kilgariff?

  He stashed it, he loves to stash things.

• 1:23:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, I would never do that.

• 1:23:37Karen Kilgariff?

  No, I actually don't know if that's true.

• 1:23:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 1:23:39Karen Kilgariff?

  What if he was just kind of very casually holding it behind his back? But then that means he had to hold the phone like this and then dial with this hand. We could work out every scenario.

• 1:23:52Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay. So Anthony can't believe it. He takes the money. He pays off his biggest bills. He buys his wife a beautiful tennis bracelet and he invests in some bonds. No, that's not what happened.

• 1:24:07Karen Kilgariff?

  I read that wrong. Anthony rushes off to Las Vegas with his friends and $30,000 in stolen cash.

• 1:24:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh my god.

• 1:24:15Karen Kilgariff?

  There, he gambles away the money, or a bunch of money. He hires a guide to get him and his friends into all the big clubs. I didn't know you could do that. He parties with women who are not his wife.

• 1:24:26Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 1:24:27Karen Kilgariff?

  And, among other sinful things, he attends an event celebrating the release of Jessica Simpson's latest single.

• 1:24:36Georgia Hardstark?

  What?

• 1:24:39Karen Kilgariff?

  Men.

• 1:24:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, you men.

• 1:24:44Karen Kilgariff?

  But he is not enjoying himself, because this is actually the irony of being on drugs and all of this stuff, is you basically surround yourself in all the things you think are going to make you happy, and then you're miserable, and then you're very fucking confused.

• 1:24:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:58Karen Kilgariff?

  At one point, he's super drunk. He's in like the, you know, the place they stay in The Hangover? That crazy, huge penthouse suite?

• 1:25:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:07Karen Kilgariff?

  They're in like one of those.

• 1:25:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Jesus.

• 1:25:09Karen Kilgariff?

  He's like crying in the shower and fucking, where you're like, uh-oh, someone better go talk to her.

• 1:25:17Karen Kilgariff?

  And then he like comes out and he tries to recover, and then he does a thing where he tells his friends, "I can jump over this glass coffee table," and they're like, "Don't do it." And he does it, and he breaks his fucking elbow.

• 1:25:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Wait, seriously?

• 1:25:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 1:25:29Georgia Hardstark?

  I was just from The Hangover.

• 1:25:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, sorry. No, no, this is real.

• 1:25:32Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, no, what?

• 1:25:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 1:25:35Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 1:25:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow, okay.

• 1:25:37Karen Kilgariff?

  So, he basically... Goes back home and he tells, of course, he walks in with this fucking like, his arm in a sling. Emily's pissed, she's like, "Where have you been?" He basically, she suspects he's using drugs again. She's been his girlfriend since they were in high school. She knows this man and she knows what he's doing. But he tells her he's coming to some money after pulling off a really lucrative real estate deal and that it's fine now and everything's gonna be okay. So she knows it's not, but she, she's just like, "At least he's back and he's alive and, you know, we'll go from here." But she has no idea that the Brink's thief who's going viral on the internet at this point is her husband.

• 1:26:19Karen Kilgariff?

  And when someone calls into a local radio show and refers to him as DB Tuber, the nickname is set.

• 1:26:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, Tuber because of the inner tube.

• 1:26:29Karen Kilgariff?

  The fucking inner tube.

• 1:26:32Georgia Hardstark?

  I thought it was like two, the second. DB Tuber.

• 1:26:36Karen Kilgariff?

  DB Tuber.

• 1:26:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Who came up with that?

• 1:26:40Karen Kilgariff?

  Right?

• 1:26:41Georgia Hardstark?

  That's brilliant.

• 1:26:42Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes. Yes, yes. Do you want to go on the rest of this tour with us? This is what we need. Okay. I'm almost there. Got it. What Anthony doesn't know is that now not only are detectives Buzz and Hatch, Buzz and Hatch, tailing him, but the FBI is too. Because of course, robbing a Brink's truck is a federal crime. So, one afternoon, they're both, I guess, surveilling Anthony's movements and they watch as he tosses a Gatorade bottle into a public trash can. They go grab it, hoping it contains DNA that'll match that saliva that was found on the discarded

• 1:27:26Karen Kilgariff?

  face mask in the crick. When it's proven to be a match, Buzz and Hatch prepare for an arrest. So on November 3rd, 2008, about a month after the Brink's truck robbery, Anthony Kursio is taken into custody in a Target parking lot. This is the part where I was having a great time for the rest of this, for the beginning of this story, and then it changes for me. He reportedly told the arresting officers, "This is slander. Do you know who my father is?"

• 1:27:57Georgia Hardstark?

  See, you gotta shut your fucking mouth. Okay.

• 1:28:01Karen Kilgariff?

  That's his mugshot. That's Anthony. Do you know who my father is?

• 1:28:06Karen Kilgariff?

  And it's like, the question, Anthony, is do you know who you are?

• 1:28:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Right? In his face.

• 1:28:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Quick update: As of last month, the Target boycott over their DEI rollback has cost the company over $12 billion in market value. $12 billion.

• 1:28:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Collective action works. Vote with your motherfucking wallet. Stop letting these people ruin everything.

• 1:28:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Target was our third space. Target, when I went home to Petaluma for the holidays, me and my sister would just go hang out in Target, and we would see everyone we knew. It was like reunions in the makeup aisle and shit. And it's fucking ruined. What's nice, though, is no one's in the Target in Petaluma anymore. They just don't go.

• 1:29:02Georgia Hardstark?

  I love it.

• 1:29:03Karen Kilgariff?

  No one goes. It's great. It's great. You're not allowed to pretend that you're super DEI until that motherfucker gets in the office and suddenly you're like, "Oh, no, no, no. We don't do that anymore."

• 1:29:15Georgia Hardstark?

  We don't have to do that anymore? Great.

• 1:29:16Karen Kilgariff?

  Bullshit. Okay, sorry.

• 1:29:23Karen Kilgariff?

  Can we please focus on true crime? It is a true crime, though. That's the craziest part. When Anthony's arrested, he has $17,000 in cash on his person. It takes eight members of the Monroe Police Force nearly four hours to hand-count all of that cash.

• 1:29:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, they have to keep starting over?

• 1:29:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Don't come in here and tell us the score to the game. We're trying to fucking count.

• 1:29:55Georgia Hardstark?

  That money was so dirty. I bet.

• 1:29:57Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, you know what's funny? When he went home out of the crick, when his friend dropped him off, he went in and he dried a lot of the money from the crick in his own dryer, because it was soaking wet from being down there with him.

• 1:30:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, this isn't Breaking Bad.

• 1:30:12Karen Kilgariff?

  Fucking crazy. So Anthony pleads guilty. He winds up going to prison for six years. He's released in 2013, having also completed a drug treatment program. He and Emily eventually reconcile. And once he gets his family back, he hits the public speaking circuit to warn kids about drugs and crime. And tearing your ACL.

• 1:30:36Karen Kilgariff?

  I bet that slipped in there, too.

• 1:30:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:39Karen Kilgariff?

  Alan Dean winds up getting the reward money for his tip.

• 1:30:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes.

• 1:30:48Karen Kilgariff?

  We don't know how much that was, but it's enough to buy a car. And according to writer David Kushner for GQ, Alan plans on finally hitting the road to get back to his family. It goes without saying that addiction is brutal. And while it doesn't excuse Anthony's actions, it puts those choices into perspective a little bit. Dredging the creek is beyond the pale. I don't care how many lines of coke you've done.

• 1:31:14Georgia Hardstark?

  I mean, that's some like gummy salad confession. You know what I mean? I just watched the most fucked up gummy salad confession of like things I did on drugs. And like, that would be on that list, for sure.

• 1:31:26Karen Kilgariff?

  I dredged the local creek and ruined...

• 1:31:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:29Karen Kilgariff?

  I ruined the entire ecosystem of our local creek.

• 1:31:32Georgia Hardstark?

  And I brought Nerds gummy clusters.

• 1:31:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Solid.

• 1:31:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Solid.

• 1:31:39Karen Kilgariff?

  But here's the thing. Anthony has always been very candid about everything that he's done. He actually was quoted as saying, "I had justified that I was doing this for my family. But you know what? Someone that is doing this for their family wouldn't have gambled with them. You should never gamble with something you are not willing to lose." And that's the story of one of the most audacious heists in the Seattle metro history, the DB tuber Brink robbery.

• 1:32:08Karen Kilgariff?

  There he is.

• 1:32:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow.

• 1:32:12Karen Kilgariff?

  Now he's saying, "Do you know who my father is?" But in a really nice voice.

• 1:32:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow. I, that's incredible. I've never heard that.

• 1:32:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Right? Me either.

• 1:32:21Georgia Hardstark?

  DBtuber is the funniest thing I've ever heard.

• 1:32:24Karen Kilgariff?

  DBtuber?

• 1:32:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:25Karen Kilgariff?

  That's, we can't let go of call-in radio. We must protect call-in radio.

• 1:32:30Georgia Hardstark?

  The holidays are right around the corner, which means people are about to do a lot of shopping.

• 1:32:35Karen Kilgariff?

  And if you have a small business, they could be shopping with you.

• 1:32:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Get your business ready with Shopify.

• 1:32:39Karen Kilgariff?

  Shopify is the platform for a record-breaking, reliable holiday selling season at every stage.

• 1:32:45Georgia Hardstark?

  They power millions of businesses worldwide, from household names to those that are just getting started.

• 1:32:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Shopify's pre-built website themes make it easy to launch a beautiful, professional-looking store without ever touching a line of code.

• 1:32:56Georgia Hardstark?

  And Shopify's mobile app lets you run your store from anywhere, from tracking inventory, to customer support, to handling payments, and more.

• 1:33:03Karen Kilgariff?

  If you're ready to launch your business before Black Friday, go to Shopify.com/murder to start your free trial.

• 1:33:08Georgia Hardstark?

  That's Shopify.com/murder.

• 1:33:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Go to Shopify.com/murder today to hear your first goodbye. We've all had moments where dealing with healthcare or insurance feels completely overwhelming.

• 1:33:22Georgia Hardstark?

  You're sick, worried about someone you love, trying to understand what comes next, and suddenly you're spending hours on hold, filling out paperwork, and trying to figure out who to call.

• 1:33:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Research shows patients spend the equivalent of an eight-hour workday every month coordinating their own care.

• 1:33:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Nobody hands you a roadmap when you're dealing with a diagnosis or ongoing health issues.

• 1:33:41Karen Kilgariff?

  That's why there's Solus Health.

• 1:33:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Solus provides personal healthcare advocates who average 16 years of healthcare experience and can help you get answers fast.

• 1:33:48Karen Kilgariff?

  Think of them as someone in your corner who understands the healthcare system and can handle the logistics while you focus on your health.

• 1:33:54Georgia Hardstark?

  They can help with appointments, insurance denials, medical bills, treatment options, and understanding doctor recommendations.

• 1:34:00Karen Kilgariff?

  Research shows 92% of patients report a positive impact on their care from working with an advocate.

• 1:34:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Advocacy improves outcomes, and Solus advocates are covered by insurance nationwide.

• 1:34:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Eligibility varies by insurance plan.

• 1:34:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Advocates do not provide medical or legal advice or services must be 18 years or older.

• 1:34:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Go to solushealth.com/murder to see if you qualify. It takes about two minutes and it's covered by insurance.

• 1:34:23Georgia Hardstark?

  That's S O L A C E health dot com slash murder.

• 1:34:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Goodbye.

• 1:34:28Georgia Hardstark?

  You know a favorite M word?

• 1:34:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Magnesium.

• 1:34:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Like the kind that's in Dr. Teal's magnesium spray.

• 1:34:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Made from a proprietary blend of topical minerals powered by pure Epsom salt and natural Dead Sea salt, it's designed to help you relax and get in the right state of mind for a good night's rest.

• 1:34:44Georgia Hardstark?

  If you need a reset after a crazy day, make Dr. Teal's magnesium spray part of your nighttime routine. It's an effortless way to get a boost of topical magnesium that can help you relax your body and mind before bedtime.

• 1:34:55Karen Kilgariff?

  Dr. Teal's magnesium spray comes in a lightweight, fast drying formula.

• 1:34:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Just shake it up and generously spritz onto the soles of your feet and massage until absorbed.

• 1:35:03Karen Kilgariff?

  I was kind of blown away the first time I used this spray because I do have problems sleeping. And when there's something this simple, you just sprayed on your feet and suddenly you're asleep and the next morning you're like, wait, what happened? Did my problem just get solved? Like, it actually is that easy.

• 1:35:18Georgia Hardstark?

  And your stinky feet now smell like lavender. Like, what more do you want?

• 1:35:21Karen Kilgariff?

  How dare you call my feet stinky?

• 1:35:24Georgia Hardstark?

  For wellness you can feel, find Dr. Teal's magnesium spray online or in your local bath aisle.

• 1:35:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Goodbye. All right, should we get, should we wrap this up?

• 1:35:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Time for hometown?

• 1:35:35Speaker 06

  What up, bro?

• 1:35:36Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Vince Averill.

• 1:35:40Speaker 06

  It's me from before.

• 1:35:42Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, I forgot to read that email.

• 1:35:46Speaker 06

  Were you guys talking about Jack in the Box?

• 1:35:47Karen Kilgariff?

  A little bit.

• 1:35:48Speaker 06

  It's appropriate. That place killed four children in 1993.

• 1:35:51Georgia Hardstark?

  He always says this whenever Jack in the Box gets brought up.

• 1:35:55Speaker 06

  I bet Dick's driving never killed no kids.

• 1:35:59Speaker 06

  What are you talking about?

• 1:36:02Speaker 06

  I'm gonna be over there at that exit sign.

• 1:36:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, thank you, baby. Every single time Jack in the Box comes up, gets brought up. It's so Gen X, isn't it?

• 1:36:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, it was a very disturbing time. But does he not like it? Is that his argument against?

• 1:36:15Georgia Hardstark?

  No, I think he just will think about it all the time.

• 1:36:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, that's like when, if people talk about, if people talk about Taco Bell, then I have to talk about how they've, they've tested the meat and they found that it was majority sawdust. And I, I didn't even pause. I think I went there two days later.

• 1:36:31Georgia Hardstark?

  You're like, ooh, that sounds great.

• 1:36:33Karen Kilgariff?

  I must love sawdust and I must be a little fucking hamster because gimme that sawdust.

• 1:36:41Georgia Hardstark?

  There was definitely a rumor when I was in high school and veganism was like super popular and they said that the Jack in the Box tacos, there was no actual meat in them. It was just like, and so everyone... I was like, great. And I bet a lot of those poor vegans got real sick after that. I don't think that's true. Anyway, here we are.

• 1:36:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Here we are. It's time for you guys to tell us a hometown. We'll very quickly tell you how to do it. Even though we know you know. No, you have to listen to it.

• 1:37:10Karen Kilgariff?

  You can't be so drunk, you can't tell your own story. Please let it have a beginning, a middle, and an end. Please, the ending is probably the most important.

• 1:37:19Karen Kilgariff?

  Don't use notes, you don't have to, you always know it. And finally.

• 1:37:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Local.

• 1:37:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, please make it local. The rest of you hate it so much when it's not local.

• 1:37:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:31Georgia Hardstark?

  So, do you actually want to? I'm gonna turn away and you can actually choose this time.

• 1:37:34Karen Kilgariff?

  We're all gonna turn away. And you guys turn away too. Try to turn away, see if you can.

• 1:37:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God. You wanna pick?

• 1:37:41Karen Kilgariff?

  No, you do it. You got it. Last night was amazing and you did it. Just follow your heart.

• 1:37:45Georgia Hardstark?

  I hate this.

• 1:37:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Really look into each person's face.

• 1:37:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Perfect. Go to this. Sorry, everyone else. This is the worst. I hate it.

• 1:37:57Karen Kilgariff?

  Only one person gets to come up. And that means everybody else hates our guts and we don't care.

• 1:38:05Georgia Hardstark?

  I care.

• 1:38:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, I care too.

• 1:38:06Georgia Hardstark?

  I care so much.

• 1:38:07Karen Kilgariff?

  I just keep saying I don't care.

• 1:38:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Guys, be quiet.

• 1:38:12Karen Kilgariff?

  She comes. Hi.

• 1:38:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Cory? It's Cory, everyone.

• 1:38:21Karen Kilgariff?

  It's Cory. Hi Cory. Nice to meet you.

• 1:38:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Thank you.

• 1:38:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Are you ready to do this thing? An honor. It's so great to have you here, Cory.

• 1:38:30Georgia Hardstark?

  How's this?

• 1:38:31Karen Kilgariff?

  Cory, you bought a shirt and you put it on tonight.

• 1:38:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:35Karen Kilgariff?

  That's badass. That's badass.

• 1:38:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Thank you.

• 1:38:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Thank you.

• 1:38:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Thank you. Where are you from? Seattle. Great.

• 1:38:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Nice.

• 1:38:44Georgia Hardstark?

  And my story is too. Okay, great. Yeah. Go for it. When my daughter was in sixth grade, she tried out for the school play, which was awesome. It's the only play she ever... And I was a theater kid, so I was very happy that she...

• 1:39:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, so she got the part of Stone Number Three.

• 1:39:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh. Well, which play was it? Would I be familiar with this play?

• 1:39:11Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 1:39:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 1:39:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Small Christian school.

• 1:39:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, well, I really love Christian plays, so you might...

• 1:39:17Georgia Hardstark?

  I don't remember.

• 1:39:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, okay, fine, fine.

• 1:39:20Georgia Hardstark?

  But there were only four speaking roles, and they were for the coveted, you know, eighth graders.

• 1:39:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:30Georgia Hardstark?

  And the eighth graders that had the roles were awesome. One especially, a girl named Natalie. She did an excellent job. She was captivating. She also was an excellent singer in the choir at the school. She was a super smart kid. In fact, she was so smart that she was two grades ahead. So she was, you know, my daughter's age, probably. Fast forward a couple of years, she was in high school. She had a little brother that was two years behind her. Her parents were going through a very ugly divorce.

• 1:40:15Georgia Hardstark?

  I think they shared custody. But when she was 14, things went sideways, and her mom lost custody. Dad had them full-time. Mom had only supervised visitation.

• 1:40:34Georgia Hardstark?

  So it had been about nine months since their mom had been in the home that they shared with their father. And they had a set of rules in place, but it was December, and mom had reached out to the little brother and said, "It's the holidays. I have a gift for you. I have it wrapped. I want to deliver it to you." And she manipulated him, and he succumbed. And so when Natalie and her dad were out, the brother was home, allowed mom to deliver the gift.

• 1:41:14Georgia Hardstark?

  At some point, it was discovered later that the gift was really a ruse. It was old clothing that she had that he had outgrown.

• 1:41:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Her real intention was to arrive, zip tie the boy, stuff his mouth with socks, and hide him and wait. It's, it's, yeah.

• 1:41:43Georgia Hardstark?

  So Dad and Natalie get home. Of course, they're shocked. She says to Dad, "I'm here to ruin your life because you've ruined mine."

• 1:41:57Georgia Hardstark?

  She holds him at gunpoint as he

• 1:42:04Georgia Hardstark?

  has to zip tie himself. And Natalie is able to rush up to her room. She calls 911. She's able to share what's happening and the contact information and all of that. And at some point, she can hear her mom coming, and she tucks the phone in her pocket. And the rest is recorded by the operator. And that is when the operator heard her mom say,

• 1:42:37Georgia Hardstark?

  "You did what? You called fucking 911? If they come here, I'm gonna put a hole in your head."

• 1:42:47Georgia Hardstark?

  And then there's the sound of wrestling. There's a sound of a zip tie. There's a sound of a gunshot.

• 1:42:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Before the police arrive,

• 1:43:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Dad is able to use his body to slam Mom against the wall and tell the brother to run outside and wait for police.

• 1:43:18Georgia Hardstark?

  And Natalie did not survive. But... She did save her brother's life and her dad's life.

• 1:43:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow.

• 1:43:34Georgia Hardstark?

  And it took six years for mom to be sentenced.

• 1:43:41Georgia Hardstark?

  She spent three of those years trying to claim insanity. But she had the wherewithal to plan to buy a gun, buy zip ties and come prepared. And so that didn't work. And COVID was in there. She fired two attorneys in that time. So finally, this year, she took a plea. She's serving 32 years.

• 1:44:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Which means that she cannot be let out more than 10% of her sentence. So she'll be 81 years old.

• 1:44:29Georgia Hardstark?

  For Natalie. Natalie, amazing.

• 1:44:31Karen Kilgariff?

  Wonderful job.

• 1:44:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Thank you, Cory.

• 1:44:36Karen Kilgariff?

  Cory, everybody. That's Cory's hometown. Thank you so much. Great job.

• 1:44:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Thank you. Wow.

• 1:44:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Seattle.

• 1:44:47Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right.

• 1:44:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow.

• 1:44:48Karen Kilgariff?

  That's a real, that's... We ask people to come up here and tell hometowns because true crime is everywhere. Everyone has experienced or has some sort of, some sort of degree of connection to trauma and horror and things. People that have been taken away, people that, that really matter, that get forgotten because whatever, the system fails them. And it really is a nice thing where people hold that in their hearts. They remember a kid that was in their, you know, their son's play. Like, it's such a lovely thing to be able to say, hey, this happened to a real person and now she's gone. And people actually really care about that. That's the point of all of this, really.

• 1:45:32Karen Kilgariff?

  It's we care about each other and everybody in this room cares about what happens to their fellow man. And it's a really lovely thing.

• 1:45:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh my God. Thank you guys so much, Seattle. We love coming here. You guys have been so supportive of us from the very beginning and we love this community and the community you guys have built. So thank you for just supporting this.

• 1:45:55Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, we really, it's great to come up here.

• 1:45:59Karen Kilgariff?

  We always have the best time.

• 1:46:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Both of these shows, both nights have been incredible. We got to meet some of you last night. It's so fun and we just thank you from the bottom of our hearts for giving us the kind of life where we get to wear fancy dresses and joke around with each other and hang out with you guys. It's a joy. We have missed you these past six years. And stay sexy.

• 1:46:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Thank you, Seattle.

• 1:46:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Thank you.

• 1:46:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Elvis, do you want a cookie?

• 1:46:39Georgia Hardstark?

  This has been an Exactly Right production. Our senior producer is Molly Smith and our associate producer is Tessa Hughes.

• 1:46:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Our editor is Aristotle Lassaveto.

• 1:46:47Georgia Hardstark?

  This episode was mixed by Leona Scolacci.

• 1:46:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Our researchers are Maren McGlashan and Ally Elkin.

• 1:46:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Email your hometowns to [email protected].

• 1:46:55Karen Kilgariff?

  And follow the show on Instagram at MyFavoriteMurder.

• 1:46:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Listen to My Favorite Murder on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 1:47:02Karen Kilgariff?

  And now you can watch My Favorite Murder on Netflix.

• 1:47:05Georgia Hardstark?

  And when you're there, hit the double thumbs up and the remind me buttons. That's the best way you can support our show.

• 1:47:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Goodbye.

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• 1:48:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Goodbye.

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• 1:49:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Goodbye.