2.5M Q&A - Naval Ravikant, Quitting Alcohol & Having Kids - #835

I hit 2.5 million Subscribers on YouTube!! To celebrate, I asked for questions from YouTube, Twitter and Instagram, so here’s another 90 minutes of me trying to answer as many as possible. Expect to learn who I’m thinking of bringing on as guests on the left and right, how to learn to trust your decisions and how to be aware of the biases that can influence them, my advice for getting out of a Rut, how to ask critical questions, what it’s like living with a giraffe and much more… Sponsors: See discounts for all the products I use and recommend: https://chriswillx.com/deals Get a 20% discount & free shipping on your Lawnmower 5.0 at https://manscaped.com/modernwisdom (use code MODERNWISDOM20) Get a Free Sample Pack of all LMNT Flavours with your first box at https://drinklmnt.com/modernwisdom (automatically applied at checkout) Get a 20% discount on Nomatic’s amazing luggage at https://nomatic.com/modernwisdom (automatically applied at checkout) Timestamps: (00:00) Appreciating Traditional Journalism (02:28) People Who Said Chris Wouldn’t Make it (03:44) How to Support Chris Better (04:39) How Much of the Show is Edited? (05:55) Wearing Shorts With Tulsi Gabbard (06:47) Living With Zack (07:40) Engaging With the Mainstream (09:28) Does Chris Pay Guests? (12:17) Getting Better at Asking Questions (14:31) Has Chris Shaved His Head Completely? (14:52) When is Chris Having Children? (16:05) Dreaming Big Without Fear of Failure (17:38) Was Chris the Secret Donor of CJI (18:28) More Thoughts on No Alcohol (22:11) Has Chris Read All of Red Rising? (23:08) Being Adopted By Mike Israetel (23:49) Anxiety About Getting Olde (24:49) Having Progressives on the Sho (25:45) Has Chris Hired New People? (26:26) What Are the Podcaster’s Podcasts? (28:36) Visiting Florence (28:53) Does Being Articulate Come Naturally? (30:41) Sports Mode or Regular in Crocs? (31:10) Experience With Lasik (32:19) When Chris Works Out (32:52) Cricket in Australia (33:44) Should Alex O’Connor Shave His Moustache? (34:38) Ben Shapiro on the Show (34:50) Would Chris Still Be Doing the Pod If it Wasn’t Successful? (36:40) Naval on the Sho (37:30) Tim Dillon on the Show (38:06) When to Have a Drink & When to Say No (39:40) How is Chris Doing? (42:52) A Dark Matter, Alternate Chris (43:27) Hardest Part of Being Chris (47:14) Mel Robbins on the Sho (47:44) Being Newly Single (49:07) Why Chris Respects Dan Bilzerian (50:19) Chris’s Biggest Music Recommendations (52:34) Being a Better Decision-Maker (56:52) Current Gym Goals (58:10) How to Get Out of a Rut (01:01:58) Advice to Rising Public Figures (01:03:44) Raising the Bar When Life Feels Good (01:07:41) Favourite Cologne to Wear (01:08:45) Feeling Well-Rested in the Morning (01:10:20) Balancing Grind Mode & Zen Mode (01:13:38) Why Chris Didn’t Release the Andrew Tate Episode (01:16:53) Books for Male Adolescent Development (01:18:39) Chris’s Writing Extra Stuff: Get my free reading list of 100 books to read before you die: https://chriswillx.com/books Try my productivity energy drink Neutonic: https://neutonic.com/modernwisdom Episodes You Might Enjoy: This Is How To Master Your Life - David Goggins - #577: ⁠⁠⁠lnkfi.re/SN-Goggins⁠⁠⁠ How To Destroy Your Negative Beliefs - Dr Jordan Peterson - #712: ⁠⁠⁠lnkfi.re/SN-Peterson⁠⁠⁠ The Secret Tools To Hack Your Brain - Dr Andrew Huberman - #700: ⁠⁠⁠lnkfi.re/SN-Huberman⁠⁠ - Get In Touch: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chriswillx Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/chriswillx YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/modernwisdompodcast Email: https://chriswillx.com/contact - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Chris Williamson?

  What's happening, people? Welcome back to the show. It is a 2.5 million subscriber Q and A episode. And this one is, I guess, a bit more special because 250K was the number of subs I had when I moved out to America two and a half years ago. And this is 10 times that, which feels like a cool milestone in two and a half years. It's been a lot of work to get here and a bit of sanity lost, I guess, along the way, but very worthwhile. And it feels good. You know, every time that I do one of these, I try not to get too soppy about support and all the shares and the likes and the nice messages and all the rest of it. But I really do appreciate it more than I can ever say. So, thank you.

• 0:42Chris Williamson?

  As usual, I asked for questions from YouTube community and Twitter and Instagram, and there were way more than I'm going to be able to get through. So, let's get into it. Chris Kavanaugh, "You've talked about the importance of getting more comfortable with asking critical questions and how difficult it can be. Has this given you some appreciation for traditional journalism and confrontational style interviews?" Yes, massively. Looking at Kathy Newman or Helen Lewis against Peterson, every conversation Douglas Murray is ever involved in, you know, like Piers Morgan, Chenk Yuga, like these people, I don't know, it's so, to be able to have that level of what kind of feels a bit like vitriol,

• 1:25Chris Williamson?

  it certainly seems like aggression, but then it's sort of controlled and then people walk away at the, I mean, do they shake hands? Do you shake hands? Did Jordan Peterson and Helen Lewis shake hands after they finished that up? I don't know. But, yeah, it's a real skill set, debating, being around Alex O'Connor, being friends with him and seeing how, going for dinner with him can be a fucking nightmare because he just wants to debate everything. So, yeah, hugely given me a different appreciation. It's a skill set. That being said, certain things come to certain people more easily. For me, asking sort of probing questions and chasing down random thought patterns, little curiosities comes very easily.

• 2:08Chris Williamson?

  I'm sure there's some confrontational style journalists that go, "God, it would be great if I could sort of continue to pursue a particular question more effectively like that, but I can argue very, very easily." So, everyone's got their different skill sets and I guess I'm just trying to fill in the weaknesses of mine wherever I can. Kyle Pereira 5190, what would you say to the people who said you won't make it? Um, I, I think it's even sadder than that. It would make for a very romantic story for me to say that there was people who doubted that things were going to work, but I actually think that no one was paying attention or even cared. Like so few people have genuine enemies out there.

• 2:52Chris Williamson?

  There's people who are, have this sort of generalized cynicism about the world. And that's not about you. That's just about their perspective of how all risks or opportunities in life should be perceived. I don't think really anyone said that I wasn't going to make it. They just weren't, they didn't care at all and still probably don't, you know, they're still probably living whatever totally blissful life they've got and who even says that I've made it. But uh, yeah, no one did. And um, I got rid of the chip on my shoulder, I think about what happened to me in school and being an outcast and sort of being bullied and stuff like that. I got rid of that within the last, I don't know, five years or so. And uh, I much prefer not being driven by that stuff.

• 3:37Chris Williamson?

  And yeah, I honestly don't think that anybody even paid attention when I started doing this thing. I know that for a fact. The Meddler, what is the best way to support your content monetarily? I have Spotify, Audible and YouTube. I know streaming and payment are weird and I want to make sure I'm supporting the creators. I benefit from the best way I can. Um, if you want to support the show, just subscribe it to it and share it with friends. Like that's honestly the best thing. I don't ask, we had, we played around with Patreon once, we played around with locals once and I don't know, it just didn't feel right. It didn't kind of work for me. I would much sooner just focus on getting the best guests I can and having great conversations.

• 4:20Chris Williamson?

  So if you want to support the show, just share episodes with friends. I think more than 50% of podcast listeners find shows through personal recommendation. So if you ever think, oh, I really like and appreciate what Chris is doing, just share it with a friend. That's the best thing you can do and make sure that you're subscribed. That's all that I'm going to ask of you. The Dolan One, how much of your podcast is edited? Do you cut out long pauses, coughs, mis-slips? Never. Pretty much everything that you see is almost exactly the way that it was recorded. We very rarely cut anything. I always wanted to kind of learn to be accurate with my speech without having to use the ejector seat button

• 5:03Chris Williamson?

  of an editor coming in and fixing whatever errors I made. Also, I think it sterilizes the conversation a little bit too much. And on top of that, you and the guest are creating this vibe. And sometimes it's really slow, or sometimes it's really awkward, or sometimes it's really protracted, or sometimes it's super fast or aggressive or whatever. And I think, I don't know, it's kind of respectful of the audience to show you what it was like and not show you this sort of, I don't know, face tuned version of that. I know there's lots and lots of podcasts that cut out everything from pauses to coughs to ums and ers. AI can do it. For a long time, people had editors going through and chopping all of that stuff out. That's not my style. I'd much sooner, I think, just show you it warts and all.

• 5:47Chris Williamson?

  So yeah, you can have faith that what you see is what was recorded. Tati T444, how can you wear shorts and a t-shirt to interview a former United States representative? I'm guessing you're talking about Tulsi Gabbard here.

• 6:09Chris Williamson?

  I have tried to construct my life in such a way so that I never need to wear anything I don't want to wear. I don't need to wear a suit or a tie or pants if I want, if I don't want to. And I don't think it's disrespectful to do that. I, are we not beyond somebody's dress being indicative of how much they care about something? And I live in Austin and it's 105 degrees all the time and I want to be comfortable. And Fuck you, I was wearing Crocs as well. So there we go. David Atkinson 5149. Hey Chris, love the podcast, just wondering what it's like

• 6:52Chris Williamson?

  living with a giraffe. I know he holds a special place in your heart. Keep up the great work. Thank you. I'm no longer living with Zach. He's moved in with his girlfriend. This, as you may notice, is a new house. This is new studio. We're halfway through the build. Again, I know that we only just changed it for the people that care and pay attention to the way that we're lighting this thing. This is very much a halfway house. There's lots and lots of work to be done. But I'm in a new place. The last one was killing me. So I'm going to, I guess, talk a good bit about that over the next few months. Health took quite a big hit. But Z's with his chick now. They're super happy. He doesn't have to deal with me harassing him to wake up earlier or whatever it was I was doing. But I got to see him the

• 7:34Chris Williamson?

  other day. He came around to the new house. So yeah, we'll, you'll still be seeing more of him over the next year. Matthew Burnett 9850. Podcasts have provided a necessary alternative to the mainstream, but do you think the pendulum can swing too far in the opposite direction? Podcast fans may be forgiven for thinking that all vaccines are evil and climate change isn't real. Would you have on more mainstream voices such as Dan Wilson, vaccines and Simon Clarke, climate, so your audience are exposed to all points of view? I don't disagree. This was the entire conversation that Malcolm Gladwell and Douglas Murray had, that debate a couple of months ago. I think that there is definitely still a place for the more mainstream positions. It wouldn't do for everyone to just be a degenerate,

• 8:16Chris Williamson?

  heterodox, like independent creator. And I know what you mean, that when the institutions haven't really showered themselves in glory over the last four years, it's very easy and cool to just assume that everything that comes out of independent media is true. And it's not. It's, that's not the case. We're not subject to the same kind of fact checking and restraint that mainstream are. And that exact restraint and perverse incentives is why mainstream media is struggling too. So I think a right balance between the two, to me, seems to be the right way to go about it. When it comes to Climate change and vaccines, you know, the director, the lead researcher, Richard Betts, on the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change has been on the show, Hannah Ritchie,

• 8:59Chris Williamson?

  that is the lead data scientist, Our World in Data, has been on the show. Vaccines, I never talked about that at all. That was something that I stayed clear of. So I'm definitely thinking about trying to balance perspectives and viewpoints, you know, having the founder of Greenpeace on, who's very climate skeptical, and him going super viral with that episode. Maybe think, okay, well, let's get some other points of view on. So I'm consciously trying to do that as much as possible, and hopefully that comes across. N. Flan, do you charge your guests slash pay guests for podcasts? No, and I never have. And I have never been paid. We've been offered like obscene

• 9:40Chris Williamson?

  amounts of money, like really, really high amounts of money to bring guests on the show. That's by sponsors and just people that wanted to pay outright. And I've never taken money. If I want to bring someone on the show, it's only because I'm interested in speaking to them. I will never, ever charge guests. And I will never, ever pay or take money from guests for coming on. Like, this is something that, I guess, is maybe an insight that not that no one really gets to see, which is, a lot of the time, podcasters will get, or any independent content creator will get accused of being a grifter or a shill for the things that they do. But nobody sees the things that you don't do. Nobody sees

• 10:23Chris Williamson?

  the tons and tons of money that you turn down from sponsors that you don't believe in, or from guests that want to come on the show that you're not interested in, but just have a ton of money behind them, or maybe some weird nefarious organization that wants to push their point of view. Like, no one sees or gives you credit for the things that you don't do, for the guests you don't bring on, that you don't agree with, for the partnerships that you turn down because you don't think that they're legitimate. And that's kind of sad, that...

• 10:53Chris Williamson?

  I've sacrificed growth, tons of growth, so much, so much and, and money and all the rest of the things to then hear someone say, I don't like AG1 and you shouldn't be. And I'm like, bro, I fucking used it every day for three years. I used Element every day for three years. Like it's, I work with partners that I like. You shouldn't, I don't like this Tulsi Gabbard is, she's not a respectable, she's got zero credibility. I'm like, I thought that she was interesting. Sue me, I don't care. So yeah, like trying to portray, or trying to show that you're doing things in the right way is superbly difficult because people will find a problem with all of the things that you do do and never give you credit for the things that you didn't. And I don't know, there's no way to change that.

• 11:38Chris Williamson?

  It's kind of like I'm giving a homeless person money, but filming it at the same time. It's like, I'm not doing this thing. I'm not omitting to work with this company or bring this person on or accept this money or whatever, because I want to get the good boy credits, but I'm doing it because that's sort of the virtuous thing to do and that's where my values lie. But then to also have to be like, it would be like giving a ton of money to homeless people, not videoing it, and then loads of people saying, you don't give any money to the homeless. How could you? And you're like, I just would. So, but no, don't charge guests or receive money for it. Never will.

• 12:18Chris Williamson?

  Elon Gelfund, how can I get better at asking questions? I made a podcast, thanks to you. Well, good luck. I honestly think that following your curiosity, it's such an obvious suggestion, but following your curiosity, what is it that you want to know? And it kind of feels to me, it's like touching the top of a, like a membrane or something, some kind of surface, like at the top of a balloon. And every so often, there's a little divot and that is kind of, it's an un- Qualified statement from the guest, or it's something that you don't quite understand. And just listening to the little voice in the back of your head, to me, seems to be the best way. That's when I'm at my absolute best, when I'm just sort of sat sinking into

• 13:02Chris Williamson?

  what the guest's saying. And then there's something happens like, wait, before you move on. And I ask a question. Couple of other things. Asking for clarification. What do you mean by that? Can you elaborate? Say more? You know, encouraging the guest to keep going if you don't think that they're there. Why is a fantastic question that very few, like not enough people use. Keeping questions very short as well. And something else that I did a lot of when I first started, which everyone does, because they're nervous, is that they ask a question, and then they offer up options. So I'd say, so Tulsi, it's interesting sort of what we've got coming up for the next couple of months. What do you think the

• 13:43Chris Williamson?

  rest of 2024 has in store for the US cultural climate? Do you think that it's going to get, and as soon as you do that, do you think that or that? You have now created this weird binary choice where the guest needs to either, you've already kind of perverted the direction that they're going to go in. And they have to either select one of the two, or do this really awkward thing of saying, no, it's neither of the things you suggested. It's a third thing. So just asking the question, and then allowing the discomfort. There is a little bit of discomfort, or at least I found there was, because everything's fucking uncomfortable to me. Allowing that discomfort to sit, and just letting it hang there. What do you think the rest of the year is going to be like? And just, you don't need to offer

• 14:26Chris Williamson?

  up suggestions. That's one of the things that new podcasters do a lot. E. Purdue, have you ever shaved your head completely? I mean, this is pretty short. This is a one and a half and a two. Even shorter than this? No, never. I don't think. The world doesn't need to see skinhead, Chris. I'm not convinced that that's a gift to the world or myself at all. S. Mario 2820. Gosh, you utterly beautiful human. Thank you. Thank you for being such a brilliant role model to so many young men. The truth will prevail and only if men and women like us will stand up for it. May you continue to be healthy and thrive for the good of us all. Question, when are you having children?

• 15:10Chris Williamson?

  And when you do so, can you please have at least three slash beyond replacement rate? And can you please do more to actively encourage young couples to start having children earlier?

• 15:21Chris Williamson?

  Need to find the woman first. I feel like that's one of the important elements of having kids. So once I've got her, then can start on the second part. Three, God, two is really the number that I like the sound of. I really like the idea of two, just because all of my friends have got more than two. Talk about the challenges of going to a restaurant or going to a theme park or getting in a car or getting a hotel or flying on a plane. Like, the world is built for families of four. And that would be great if the world could be built for families of five. Maybe that would actually encourage people to have more kids. I don't know. But, um, I don't know. It'll be, it'll be at least two. Okay, just give me, give me time.

• 16:05Chris Williamson?

  Multifacen, how big would you dream if you knew you couldn't fail?

• 16:13Chris Williamson?

  That's a cool question. I don't know. I guess, I think a lot of my life is driven by fear. A lot of it is uncertainty and vigilance and fear. It's a, it's a fear that things are not going to go well or that they're going to fall apart or that I'm going to mess up or that somebody's mad at me. And that definitely does curtail my, like, ability to be ambitious. So I guess I'm kind of a...

• 16:47Chris Williamson?

  Role model for people who don't actually have particularly big dreams or ambitions. I'm not like honestly, I don't have a five year plan every time that someone asks me it, whether it's a business guru mentor person on the show or somebody in my private life or therapist or whatever. I don't know where I want to be in five years. I just, it's like the ultimate proof that you don't rise to the level of your goals. You fall to the level of your habits and my habits are that I work pretty hard and I pay attention to stuff. So if you are someone who doesn't have particularly big dreams or a massive amount of self-esteem or, or confidence, it kind of doesn't matter. You can feel like you don't deserve it and not believe that it's going to happen.

• 17:32Chris Williamson?

  And it's still go well. So I know hopefully that's reassuring. An American Jedi, why were you sitting next to Craig Jones at CJI? Are you the super secret donor? No, I'm certainly not. I do not have $2 million to give to Craig Jones's degenerate Brazilian Jiu Jitsu tournament. That being said, it was very fun and to all the people that came out and saw us there. That was awesome. But I don't know who that super secret donor was. I was trying to probe him even privately. I was trying to find out who the fuck it is that's got a couple of mill to just toss to the curb. I don't know. Maybe one day he'll tell us the same day that he tells us why,

• 18:13Chris Williamson?

  whatever it was, the Danaher death squad broke up. There's so much lore around Craig and that lot. It's great what they've done. It's kind of like the best seasons of Game of Thrones where everyone didn't have any idea what was going to happen next.

• 18:28Chris Williamson?

  Tom, the taxi driver. Fantastic achievement, Chris. You're a true bastion of the movement against mental masturbation and I guess the physical kind too. Hooray for no fat. Thank you. I'm really eager for you to dive deeper into your thoughts on no alcohol as you're someone who's gone a long time without and have reintroduced it at various points, presumably successfully. I'm over two years sober. And for all the life-changing benefits that it has yielded, I wonder if it's probably sitting in the same realm as other self-improvement practices like monk mode is useful for a period of your life before reintegrating into society. I sometimes wonder if drinking alcohol is a similar thing. I know you've brought this up at odd times on your pod, but would love to get you in full depth of view on it. Thanks, man. I know you're crushing the American dream, but we really could use a figure like you back in the UK. Can we

• 19:10Chris Williamson?

  draft you back in? The taxi ride is on me, Tom. What a beautiful message. Thank you. Um, okay. So first thing, uh, I certainly do believe that there is a place for alcohol in your life. I'm actually so horseshoe-y that I'm on like the third loop round of this. I'm now very like non-fust with alcohol, even though I did the sobriety and then reintroduced and was like, it's not just about going sober. It's also about reintroducing it because anyone that says that a night out can't be made better by being a little bit tipsy, hasn't had a sufficiently good night out. And I do stand by that. But the last couple of years, each time I drink, it's been less and less fun. There's just such better drugs

• 19:53Chris Williamson?

  out there if you actually want to enjoy yourself and not feel so bad the next day. And I don't know, just the effect of alcohol as a drug isn't that fun. That being said, the effects of sobriety are especially elective sobriety, which was kind of the super lame term that I came up with for people who don't need to go sober, but choose to go sober. Um, the benefits of elective sobriety are so strong. It's really, really easy for you to just never want to reintroduce it. Uh, I do have a sense that if you've got a problem with a particular substance, even if it's a very mild one, like, uh, it

• 20:35Chris Williamson?

  reduces the amount of personal growth that I'm able to do. I do kind of believe that Until you can reintroduce it on your own terms, you haven't fully transcended and included that. So if nothing else, it's a really interesting test to see. One rule that you can use, which I used quite successfully, was sobriety was domestic. And then if I ever did go away on holiday, I would try out drinking. And that usually meant that, you know, once every few months or whatever, when I was taking a break from running clubs, that I'd maybe get to have a few beers and see how I felt. And usually I'd feel exactly the same that I'm not too fussed about that. Reintroducing it is important.

• 21:18Chris Williamson?

  That's why I've always said that people that are doing a focus period of elective sobriety should do it until a deadline and then reintroduce and then go again. You're not doing this to be able to say, I went sober for a thousand days. I went sober for 500 days. I went sober for two months or whatever. You're doing it literally just for yourself. No one else is counting the numbers. You're not going to, if you've done two years, there's no chance you're going to slip back into being a party boy on a weekend. You're already evidently in love with the idea of being sober. So just test it. Have a couple of beers. It'll take you one and a half beers to remind yourself about what the sensation of being drunk is like. And when it comes to the drafting me back into the UK, I will be in the UK on the 28th of November at the event in Apollo in London.

• 22:02Chris Williamson?

  Tickets are available at chriswilliamson.live/london. And apart from that, it's going to be a rarity, I'm afraid. But you can see me on stage. Nick, twin14, have you read all of the Red Rising series? Onto book two now, great read. Dude, I fucking love that series so much. I went back and started again from the first one, even though I haven't finished the seventh one or the sixth one, whichever one it is now. I went back and read the first one again and started. It's so fantastic. For the people that don't know what we're talking about, Red Rising, awesome sci-fi slash fantasy future novel series by P.S. Brown. It's my favorite fiction series of all time. It's available at the Modern Wisdom Reading List,

• 22:46Chris Williamson?

  which you can get at chriswilliamson, chriswillx.com/bucks. Hundred bucks that you should read before you die. All of my favorites. And there's a link to this one in there and a justification for why I like it. But I'm just about to finish the final book in the series and I can't wait to see what he does next. He's great. That that series should come with an addiction warning label. It's so fantastic. Mark Crouch 25. Congrats. Well earned. Thank you. When will you become an adopted son of Dr. Mike Isretel? When will there be any animosity between Jared Feather and yourself? Best of luck and keep up the great work.

• 23:22Chris Williamson?

  I mean, last time someone said that me and Mike Isretel look alike, and I accused them of having some kind of mental defect. Jared Feather and me probably look a little bit more similar, but still not that much. He's trailer trash from fuck knows where in America, and I'm trailer trash from the northeast of the UK. So we have a little bit in common.

• 23:43Chris Williamson?

  Maybe all three of us have got foreskins, at least two of us do. So who knows?

• 23:48Chris Williamson?

  User 1938382929299. Do you feel anxious about being 36 this year and not settle down?

• 24:01Chris Williamson?

  Huh.

• 24:03Chris Williamson?

  Not anxious, but it's certainly, I'd be lying if I said it didn't play in the back of my mind that there was this sense, should you not have got it more sorted by now? I also

• 24:15Chris Williamson?

  understand that you make sacrifices in certain areas for progress in others. And if I was going to do the move to America at 33 thing and try and restart a life or build a business on my own, like completely on my own in this brand new country, probably would have been quite tough to have held a relationship together or a marriage or something. But I'm looking for, I'm working hard. Okay, I'm trying. I'm settling down. I'm settling, settling in the process of settling and trying my best as quickly as I can. After Sun. Any plans to have progressives like Kyle Kulinsky, Crystal Ball, Hassan Abi, or politicians? So Rory Stewart was on. I found him very good.

• 24:59Chris Williamson?

  Brian Class, quite progressive. Ryan Holiday, actually super lefty, although people don't give him credit for it. Obviously Destiny's been on.

• 25:08Chris Williamson?

  Dean Phillips, the Democratic presidential candidate was on. But I would love to get Kyle on and Crystal, massive fan of both of them.

• 25:18Chris Williamson?

  Impossible to get a hold of. If anyone knows Kyle Kalinsky or Crystal Ball or can do the intro, please feel free to loop us in because they don't seem to have email addresses at all. And we've been looking for it. So yeah, I'd love to have a chat with them. I think both of them are very interesting. Hassan Abi, I've been in touch with a little bit. Busy guy, streams like 25 hours a day. So we'll see if we can make that work.

• 25:43Chris Williamson?

  Cato de Voe works out. Have you filled the positions you're hiring for? Still ongoing. We got 6,000 applicants, like 6,500 applicants for two roles. Sounds great, but actually kind of made everything a little bit harder. So that was a general manager and a guest booker. And we got just really phenomenal talent for both, but it's taking time to go through it. And my standards for the people that I want to bring on are obviously quite high, maybe unrealistic. So I'm, we're doing the assessment period. We're taking our time with that, but we are getting that. And hopefully there will be assistance to give me a little bit more time to actually read and have a life soon because I haven't necessarily had

• 26:24Chris Williamson?

  that recently. Stuart Danger. Stuart Lee is a comedian's comedian. What are the podcasters' podcasts? That's a good question. So founders is definitely one. That's the first one that comes to mind with David Senna, been on the show before. Phenomenal insight. He takes one book or one person from history and just breaks them down. That's great. What else do I think? I think Lex has a lot of podcasters listen to Lex's show. Oddly enough, Decoding the Gurus is kind of like the, a little bit like the gossip. It's like a

• 27:06Chris Williamson?

  left leaning, more left leaning gossip thread for, I know a lot of people in the industry listen to that or something similar to that. QAnon Anonymous, Blocked and Reported, Very Bad Wizards. Like there's something from that area, which is the sort of critique sphere thing. Like a lot of people take, a lot of guys in the industry listen to something from that. And then there was this whole, I don't know whether they're still going because I stopped seeing them on my YouTube, but this whole sort of critique sphere that was on YouTube, a lot of it was focused towards comedy and stuff like that. So to be honest, much of it. There's not many that are kind of underground heroes. Much more of it is like weather reports and gossip girl, but for

• 27:50Chris Williamson?

  podcasting, I would say, actually, I would, I would say, um, Tim Dillon is probably one of those because the solo style shows lend themselves to easy listening and it's good to kind of get a, oh, actually two more. Pirate Wires by Mike Solana, not necessarily a podcaster's podcast, but certainly from a news perspective, I know a lot of people listen to that for their news that's in the industry. And All In, All In Podcast crushing at the moment. It's one of my favorites. Comes out every Friday. The boys are great. I really, really love what they're doing. So there's some combination of history, news, news and tech slash gossip, and then just exclusively gossip is kind of a little blender.

• 28:36Chris Williamson?

  Thomas H. 1944, didn't want to mention anything during the Duomo Tour in Florence, Chris. Big fan and all the best. Thanks, Thomas. Yeah, I went to Florence. I went up the Duomo. And I very much appreciate seeing you there, even if you kept quiet.

• 28:55Chris Williamson?

  Astrum Mac, do you think being articulate is a talent to be born with?

• 29:01Chris Williamson?

  I can only speak for myself and I got teased a lot in school for using different words. So one of the most common, like one of the earliest insults I can remember is that I should fuck off and read the dictionary again.

• 29:21Chris Williamson?

  So

• 29:23Chris Williamson?

  it's some of it's innate, it seems, or at least was like very

• 29:30Chris Williamson?

  precociously.

• 29:33Chris Williamson?

  Started for me, begun. But it's certainly something that you can develop. And the, the, the goal is not to be articulate, it's just to be precise. Right. You're looking to just say the thing that you mean. I'm actually actively trying to sort of dial back the complexity of, of the language that I use, especially when I'm writing. You know, some of the best writers, George Mack, Rob Henderson, Gwyneth Boghul, that are kind of in this online article sphere stuff that I love. They don't use fancy words. They're very, very simplistic with their language. They're just precise. And I think that that's the goal. Precision. So you can develop it. If you spend time listening to people who have great vocabularies.

• 30:14Chris Williamson?

  And then if you get a word, for instance, I read meretricious and really loved it as a word. And thought, oh, that's cool. Like, I really, I really could do with that. It fills a hole that I don't need. And then I tried to force feed it into a bunch of sentences and bits of writing over the next couple of weeks. And now it's locked in and I've got meretricious in, in the old arsenal. But yeah, it's certainly something that you can develop.

• 30:41Chris Williamson?

  M G dot squared. Crocs in sport mode or regular? Regular all day. I hate the way the Crocs look in sports mode. If you see me in Crocs in sports mode, some shit is going down. Like, it is really, it's fucking on. I'm running for a plane or I'm playing pickleball and I've got no other pair of trainers nearby. I've had to do it in Crocs, which I have done before. But yeah, I just think they're so much cooler without that backstrap on. And I'll fight anyone that disagrees. Les Mills Body Coach. What's your experience with LASIK? Is it worth it? Yes, 100%. I had fantastic experience. Obviously, if you read, and I did.

• 31:20Chris Williamson?

  If you read the nightmare stories on the internet, you're going to get a lot of people whose vision went blurry and it never came back, or who had some mishap in their surgery and all the rest of it. So maybe, maybe the likelihood of that going wrong was 10%. And I'm just in the 90%. I don't know. But my experience is great. My vision is super sharp. It works on a nighttime. It was about a year that it took to settle. I'm about, I've probably had it for about a year-ish now. Vision on a night time took a little while to settle down. There was this sort of flaring around lights, which sounds cool and looks beautiful on a movie. But it's really fucking annoying if you're trying to drive. So that was tough, but now it's great. I'm so, so, so glad that I got it done.

• 32:05Chris Williamson?

  So for what it's worth, I went to the OCL in London. I think it's like the Optometrist's College of London or something. It's OCL London. Anyway, you should be able to see it. Wes Edgeworth, unfortunate name. Do you work out at the same time every day? Or does it change to fit your schedule? It's the same time pretty much every day, 7:40. Either doing class or with my trainer or sat on an assault bike, doing Norwegian four by four and hating myself. 7:40 in the morning, which means I can get up at just before seven.

• 32:42Chris Williamson?

  Roll myself around until I'm ready to move, get in the car, get to the gym and then be done. I'm back at my desk by nine AM. That's the, the plan. Finished by nine AM and 7:40 does it. Rick Folder, do you fancy game of cricket when you're in Sydney? Yes, yes, I would love that. Apart from the fact that the last time I tried to play cricket, I ruptured an Achilles. So I'll watch and I'll, I could field, I could definitely field. If I'm allowed to stand in slips, I would 100% be down to field. Bat me down the order, put a runner in for me. So I don't need to actually do anything. I would be down to do that. By the way, coming to Australia for the first time ever. Tickets are available at chriswilliamson.live slash Australia.

• 33:21Chris Williamson?

  Wednesday, the sixth in Melbourne, Friday, the eighth in Brisbane and Saturday, the ninth of November in Sydney. I'll be there on stage. James Smith's going to be there as well. Sorry about that. Q and a live talk from me, intro from him. It'll be great. So if you want to come and see me in Australia, chriswilliamson.live slash Australia. Danielle Sinclair 28, have you signed the change.org petition for Alex O'Connor to shave his moustache or are you in favor? I have seen this. I'm very pro Alex becoming as visually spicy as possible. I would love for him to start wearing skinny jeans, like cropped skinny jeans, get a high fade.

• 34:05Chris Williamson?

  I think that turning Alex into a fuckboy would be one of the great gifts that I could give the world, especially, you know, given my background in nightlife. I do truly believe that I'm the man to be able to make this happen. But I'm completely in favor. That guy's gone through multiple moustache eras, a full-on beard era recently as well, only as recently as last year.

• 34:30Chris Williamson?

  He went for a sort of a stubble approach as well. I'm on board. I'm on board. Let the guy cook, right? Let his face cook. Mit, Mit, Mit, Mitisitar, Mitisitar 88. When will you have Ben Shapiro on your podcast? Soon. That will happen soon. I promise. Nick Atanakovich, if you hypothetically weren't seeing results from the pod, would you still be doing it? Dude, I did this thing when nobody listened, literally no one, when no one listened at all. There's days in 2018 where we did zero plays. We'd launched the pod. I was doing an episode a week.

• 35:12Chris Williamson?

  We had all of the plays, all of the backlog, catalog, history of old episodes. We're like 10, 15 episodes in. There was days where we did zero plays. I did this long before anybody listened and I will do it long after I'm canceled. I enjoy doing the show because I enjoy the people I'm speaking to. If I ever stopped enjoying the people that I was speaking to, then I would stop doing the show. But it's not about the numbers. It's never been about the numbers. And that is, you know, the bros fallen off meme. It means that you're kind of immune to that because you were never doing it for that in the first place. And it's the one thing that I found in life that I did, like not as a commercial pursuit.

• 35:55Chris Williamson?

  It was done, everything in my life in my twenties was always about some form of money or some form of sort of positioning or whatever, whatever. And I did the show because I wanted to learn about the world and myself. I wanted to better understand myself and the world around me and it allowed me to do it. And that meant that anything else that came along, you know, that scene in Peaky Blinders where Arthur Shelby and Tommy Shelby are talking and they say that they came so close to death during the First World War, the Battle of the Somme, that everything after that was extra. That's kind of what it feels. All the things, all the good things that have happened to everything after just getting to speak to people I'm interested in was extra.

• 36:36Chris Williamson?

  So, yeah, I'd still be doing it. Beast, when are you bringing on Naval? Do the thing. I would kind of need to make the call about when I would like to ask him that favor.

• 36:53Chris Williamson?

  I've got his WhatsApp. We've spoken. We spent a week together in Roatan at the start of the year. He very well may even say yes, if and when I do it, but I need to pluck, first off, pluck up the courage and secondly, it's only going to happen once, I think. So when do I want to do it? And pick the time appropriately and pick the shoot and make it sort of really beautiful. This would, that would be like the crowning episode for me, I think, like the full, full circle. So I need to work out how I'm going to do it, but it'll happen. Stay patient. Isaac Majangos, when are you going to get the number one podcasters?

• 37:35Chris Williamson?

  The number one podcasters the world's Tim Dillon on the podcast, the number one podcaster in the world's Tim Dillon on the podcast. We were so close. I kind of teased that it was going to happen and it was. And then his schedule and mine both changed, but we are back speaking to his team. So again, give me time. I'm slowly inching my way toward all of the people that we all want to speak to. It's just, they're fucking busy, man. Like, they're busy and sometimes so am I. Max Stevens, like you, I've drastically decreased my alcohol consumption. How do you differentiate between times to let loose and have a drink and times when you should say no? Easiest way that I found this has been to set either

• 38:20Chris Williamson?

  geographic or duration based limits. And then it means that you don't need to actually make this call because how do you differentiate between when you should let loose and have a drink and when you should say no? There's a lot of cognitive effort that goes along with that. And it's kind of exhausting to, am I going to do it tonight? Am I not going to do it tonight? And it just takes away from the enjoyment of the event. Should I have said, yes, I'm drinking or no, I'm not drinking? When you start to do it or you don't, like you just don't need that. So for me, set a block of time and within that block of time, a month or three months or six months or a year or whatever, you don't drink, doesn't matter. You don't need to make the call, right? You've already made that commitment.

• 39:01Chris Williamson?

  And/or on top of that, if you are away, if you're abroad somewhere for me, 2019, 4th of July in Nashville on Broadway with a quarter of a million people watching Chris Stapleton or someone play, I'm having a beer. I'm not not having a beer at that, even if it's simply for the sort of tribute to be able to raise it in the air, I'm going to have a beer. So beer I did. So I think that's the best way to do it. Don't differentiate between times to let loose and times to have a drink. At times say no, just stick to, is it within the period I said I wasn't going to? And am I in a location that I said I wasn't going to as well? That's it. Rock Health 22, how are you? Like really, all of this instant fame must be taking a toll on you.

• 39:47Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, I mean, again, it's kind of hard to talk about the negative side effects of a ton of attention because it's like a millionaire talking about how difficult it is to file their taxes for all of the money that they've made or something. You know, it's a thing that lots of people aspire to have and that you created yourself. And then you're whining about weird externalities that come along with it. It's odd. And again, this, whatever version of fame that I have is like degenerate niche micro influencer fame, it's not real proper fame at all.

• 40:22Chris Williamson?

  What's interesting that's happened recently, I had the first time where the, the attention was, I saw the glimmer of it being too much, which was just like the frequency of people coming up was too much. That was new and kind of weird because up until now, it's been whatever, every hour, then it was every 30 minutes and it's every 15 minutes when you're out and about. And that's lovely, like the perfect cadence, couple of times an hour, brilliant. I may love the podcast, thank you.

• 40:49Chris Williamson?

  Um. Other than that, like, the other thing is, I'm not built for the level of scrutiny that happens, I don't think. You know, I am very much at the mercy of other people's opinions, quite sort of chronically uncertain about the things that I'm doing. And this has gotten worse over the last year as I've started to do more therapy and do more emotional work, because you don't hide away all of the things that you're feeling through bravado or distraction or, you know, comforting fibs that you tell yourself or whatever. It's all there, just staring you in the face. And, um, yeah, that's been, this year's been like a really difficult one to navigate, I think, as all of this stuff's happening with the show, which is really great and flattering, but then also kind of difficult to, and who am I? And why does the world see

• 41:34Chris Williamson?

  me differently? And blah, blah, blah. And then also, who the fuck do you think you are? Think the world sees you differently? You just do a podcast? Like, what the fuck is this? But then you can't help but feel the thing. It's very complex. And like, unpacking it is real interesting. So, I don't know. This is why I got a good bit of stick for talking to people, like, a billionaire, Andrew Wilkinson or whatever, about the fact that money might not make you happy. And people just either discredit him or say that it's an obvious insight. And I'm like, well, if it's so fucking obvious, why does everyone keep on trying to be richer, hoping that it's going to make them happy? And, you know, I'm really, really trying hard to lay the breadcrumbs behind me as each of these different stages occur in becoming better known or whatever of like, this was the first time that I ever felt that the attention

• 42:17Chris Williamson?

  was too much in person. And having lots of people following and scrutinizing the stuff that you do on the internet might sound like it's great and just ego inflating, but what it actually feels like is just an increase in hate, because you don't remember the compliments, you only remember the insults. So, larger platforms are largely just more negativity, because you don't remember, or it's your fucking Teflon for the nice stuff and your Velcro for the bad stuff. Like, trying to leave it behind me as I go. And that's my sedimentary layered rock archaeology thing of, that's, that's what it was like, and that's what it is like. Whitley, Dark Matter, what life decision slash alternative, Chris, would you want to see play out? I can't answer this question without spoiling Dark Matter,

• 43:01Chris Williamson?

  and everybody should go and read Dark Matter, because the book is fantastic. I know that there's a series on Apple TV that I haven't watched yet, but a good friend told me that I should read Dark Matter, and she was right. It was awesome. Highly, highly recommended.

• 43:18Chris Williamson?

  I'm not gonna, I can't answer that question without spoiling it and I want people to go and read it. So I might answer it in future, once more people have read it. There we are. Doftelius, what is the hardest part about being you? Most people can't see or understand. Again, it's like the millionaire whining about his, this is the inner, you know, when we talk about that sort of British need to minimize suffering or to not sort of be too big headed, like that, that it gives me this response like that. Um.

• 43:54Chris Williamson?

  Look, I spend a lot of time on my own and I spend an awful lot of time under pressure, largely pressure that I put on myself. But the last couple of years has resulted in me just working more than I ever have on the show, not doing the things that I started the show to do, dealing with scheduling with guests and how we're going to shoot and budgeting and contracts and negotiations with partners. And because as the show grows, we need to be able to fund all of these big shoots to get out to the guests. If I want to go and see Jordan Peterson in Arizona and shoot with him, I need to get together all of the money to be able to make that happen. And then we need to schedule it and then we need to organize it and then we need to get the guys in there. And then I still need to do the research and the prep and I need to sit down and have a conversation with him and then I need to chill out afterwards. But oh, there's ad reads to do

• 44:39Chris Williamson?

  before you finish up. So the toughest thing about the show is all of the things that aren't the show that I still need to do. Like I am CEO, founder, operator, host, guest booker, guest researcher, like chief of operations, chief of marketing, the Instagram, like everything, everything, everything. And I'm really looking forward to relinquishing that. I'm so ready to let go of that. And I've hesitated. I don't talk about how the sausage is made on the show that much, because you guys aren't here to hear me whine about the very thing that you're here to watch. Like you're here to just sit down and enjoy the show and learn interesting insights

• 45:22Chris Williamson?

  from somebody who hopefully I love and you find engaging. And me harping on about the minutia detail problems of the actual way that this thing you enjoy comes about to me, just I've always steered clear from kind of showing you guys that. And it does feel kind of like I've got this weird relationship with someone. I don't know who it is. There's like a someone that represents all two and a bit million of you. And I try, I try to sort of keep, you know, it's like you don't tell your mom things to not, to not sort of worry her. There's like certain things I just don't bother saying. But that's the big thing. The show involves a lot of stuff that isn't just the show. And I know that that also sounds like, well, you, why, why bother going through it's so complex. Why not just make

• 46:06Chris Williamson?

  it simpler? It's like, well, look, if I want to achieve the things that I want to with the show, which is to push the limits in terms of the guests that I can get. And in terms of doing things people haven't done before, the world's first podcast on a video wall or 3D or on location or whatever the fuck we're going to do. If I'm going to do that, I need to be able to scale things up. I need to make it more sophisticated, but that's still come to this one point, this tip of the spear apex, which is just me spinning tons of plates and screaming into the ether, trying to hold it all together. And that takes up a lot of mental space, like way more mental space than I would like to admit. So that's the toughest thing, I think, at the moment. But I'm looking forward to having someone, hopefully, that can just be

• 46:48Chris Williamson?

  like a big, I used to stand on the front door next to these huge Geordie bouncers, right? These, these doormen from Newcastle. And I just want a big doorman in front of me. And hopefully, that's going to be the general manager slash CEO person that'll come in and they can deal with all of that stuff. And I just get to go back to doing what I love to do, which is finding interesting people and coming up with cool ideas. So hopefully, that's what's ahead. D. McColon, D. McColon, any plans to interview Mel Robbins? And have you been to Japan or any plans to visit? Mel Robbins has been on the list for ages. She's got a new book coming out later this year. Speaking to the team, would love to get her on. Hopefully, it'll happen. I think it's gonna happen. Japan, also, yes, ton of friends out there. Guy that asked

• 47:32Chris Williamson?

  the first question, actually, Chris Cabanau's out there. I'd love to go, but I've traveled a lot this year. So I'm kind of, I'm happy just being here in my new house. Jay Clark, you mentioned you are newly single. How has your approach to life changed since? You mentioned you are newly single. How has your approach to life changed since? Since I'm newly single?

• 47:55Chris Williamson?

  Not much has changed, to be honest, man. You know, my last relationship was long distance. So very much I was focused on work with brief periods of doing the girlfriend thing. And then now life's kind of just the same, but without brief periods of doing the girlfriend thing, which is probably definitely for the worst because it's just allowing me to work more and more as opposed to giving me a justifiable reason to stop working more. Not much has changed, to be honest. It's certainly a very different world to the last time I was single, which was four years ago, you know, more before COVID, basically.

• 48:33Chris Williamson?

  Very, very big difference, I think. Which, given that I was someone that spent all of that time researching it, you know, looking at mating crisis, online dating, the prestige and status that's associated with a platform and how that impacts make preferences and so on and so forth. It's like, wow.

• 48:55Chris Williamson?

  I don't know. When you experience it firsthand, all of that stuff, all of the changes in the world and perverse incentives and all the rest of it, it's a real change. I can see why people are confused. Becky underscore Irish, why do you respect Dan Bilzerian? That's a good question. I do respect Dan, actually.

• 49:16Chris Williamson?

  Caveat, evidently, that doesn't mean that I agree with even everything, even anything that he says. One of the reasons, the reason that I respect Dan is that he says what's on his mind. Dan's superpower, he's not the smartest guy in the room, he's not the best looking guy in the room, he's not the most really anything guy in the room, but he says what's on his mind. His brain or his like heart to mouth filter is one of the lowest of anybody that I've ever met. Like the thing that he's saying is the thing that he believes. Even if what he believes is wrong, totally open to the prospect of that being the case, it's just really fucking impressive to be around somebody who just does that.

• 50:01Chris Williamson?

  And that doesn't mean that you need to agree and that doesn't mean that I'm fucking glazing him. What it does mean is He's a very non-fungible human in that way. There are not many people like him. And there was a lot that I think that everybody should have taken away from the episode that I do to them.

• 50:19Chris Williamson?

  Real Chris Sailor 95. Congrats, Chris, on 2.5 million. I've been listening to Modern Wisdom since early 2020 and it's been fantastic to be alongside you on this journey. Thank you. You got me hooked on Sleep Token earlier this year and now it's a regular gym playlist. What other music recommendations do you have or what's on your frequent rotation nowadays? Keep up the good work. Big love to you and the team. Thank you very much. So, wearing the T-shirt today, Bad Omens, they are fucking fire. Their most recent album, actually, everything they've put out is so good. Highly, highly recommend Bad Omens. What else have I been listening to recently?

• 50:59Chris Williamson?

  Paris, still getting into a bunch of that. I know they kind of ended up on the bad end of a shit ton of Me Too stuff. Architects, again, a kind of an obvious answer, I guess, but they're fantastic. Who's the dude that is supporting Sleep Token in the UK? There's this guy that's supporting Sleep Token in the UK. Does a crank in my fucking hog? Let's see if this comes up. Of course, it's not going to come up because it's all one word.

• 51:30Chris Williamson?

  Let's see if I can get it.

• 51:33Chris Williamson?

  Come on, come on. Bill Murray. Fucking yes, got there. Bill Murray, B.I.L.M.U.R.I., kind of throwback to mid 2000s, like emo-style breakdowns. Started listening again to Data Remember, For Your Strong, Silverstein, Taking Back Sunday. I'm really in my full-on retro teenage era right now, so I'm going back to a bunch of that.

• 52:01Chris Williamson?

  What else? Palisades.

• 52:07Chris Williamson?

  Bring Me, the new album is fantastic, like obvious, but Bring Me The Horizon, great. And then a lot of Anjunadeep, like that's the sort of two barbell ends of the spectrum is aggressive, sad, sometimes hopeful, emo core, post-hardcore stuff and melodic, fruity, deep house on the other end, like absolute dopamine, Chris, and serotonin, Chris. Those are the two. The Affectus. Hi, Chris. How can you trust your decision-making confidently when you become more and more insightful into the flawed space of your mind? Good question. When you see through the transient biases and impulses that drive you towards certain things, not knowing if those destinations are the ones you want, how do you get over

• 52:50Chris Williamson?

  the indecisiveness that inherently comes from seeing through the charade? For example, when I'm trying to feel if I want to spend the rest of my life with a girl I am seeing, I cannot separate the wanting of closeness and comfort from the of what really is good for me. I find it challenging to separate the immediate desire for closeness from the rational assessment of what's good for me. I just love your podcast, man. Keep it up. You're an inspiration and a role model, bro. Well, thank you very much. And I know, you know, the basis of this question is, how can you make decision-making confidently when you become more and more insightful into the flawed space of your mind? Dude, it's all, for me, it's all explained by a quote, shock horror to the guy that fucking loves everything, explains everything with a quote.

• 53:33Chris Williamson?

  Ultimately, happiness in life comes down to the discomfort between choosing to become aware of your mental afflictions or the discomfort of becoming ruled by them. You can choose to be aware of your mental afflictions or you can be ruled by them. And I want to be aware of them. Yes, that is going to bring with it a whole host of insight about the fact that, well, fuck, I was so confident previously that this was the right thing to do, but now I see how inherently broken and flawed and uncertain and winging it, everybody, including myself, is, how can I have any, how did I ever make any decision before? How did I ever make any sort of big commitment?

• 54:13Chris Williamson?

  I think one of the problems that you have is that you increase the grandiosity and the importance of the decisions that you're making further than they need to. Most decisions are reversible in one form or another. If any decision is reversible, you can make it pretty much immediately because you can turn it around. Like you leave a job. Okay, you go to do a thing, but you can get a new job presumably unless it's a very rare job or something that you're not going to be able to replicate. But if you're in a sales role, like everybody needs a good salesperson. So, okay, leave the job, try the thing and then go back to it. When it comes to your relationship, your idea of spend the rest of my time, my life with a goal I'm seeing, can't separate the wanting of closeness and comfort from the rational assessment of what's good for me.

• 54:58Chris Williamson?

  I don't know why the desire for closeness and the rational assessment of what's good for you wouldn't be the same thing. Like it seems quite rational to want closeness. It seems like if you're enjoying something, what's more rational than that? Also, I would try and pull you out of your own head. I'm aware that like I'm saying this, Mr. Cerebral, but the more that I've tried to sort of embody emotions in that way. In fact, there was a really great study done. There was a guy who needed, either he was in an accident or he needed an area of his brain removing. And this area of his brain was associated with emotion. And the problem was that they asked him, I think, what time tomorrow he wanted to have

• 55:41Chris Williamson?

  his next interview with the doctors that were conducting the study. And it took 30 minutes for him to not choose until someone suggested a day and he just agreed because without any emotional valence, no decision, your priority set is constructed through emotions. Like it's just vibes, bro, is so true. The more that I think about it, the more that I learn about life, the more I'm convinced that it's just vibes. So I actually think that.

• 56:13Chris Williamson?

  Relying less on rationality and not praying at the feet of that. Like if you did a thing and it felt good and you didn't regret doing it tomorrow. What else is there? Like it was right in the moment and it was right in the future. I don't think that you need to try and be able to predict every individual permutation like in fucking dark matter. You don't need to be able to predict how everything's going to go. You just find something that feels right, go with it. If it's a reversible decision, you'll be fine. If it's something that you can do step by step, that's also fine. You'll be all right. You're you're paying way more attention to all of this stuff than anybody else is. So if you can learn to just release a little bit more instead of tightening up, I think everything will be good.

• 56:53Chris Williamson?

  Bogdan oh four oh two. What are your current goals in the gym? What are you focusing on right now? Need more vlogs about your training and routine greetings from Ukraine. Fucking Ukraine, bro. Wow.

• 57:10Chris Williamson?

  That is cool. These, by the way, element have started doing a RTD salty sparkling drink. It's so good.

• 57:19Chris Williamson?

  Goals in the gym.

• 57:21Chris Williamson?

  Just absolute bro physique. Push pull legs with a couple of additional sessions. One is the Norwegian four by four thing that I spoke about with Dr. Rhonda Patrick, trying to get a healthy heart and shoulders buys and tries on a Saturday with one of my boys. And that's it. It's nothing fancy. It's what? One, two, three, four, five.

• 57:45Chris Williamson?

  And a half, five and a half hours of training a week, maybe a little bit more.

• 57:50Chris Williamson?

  It's great. Vlogs about training. Mike Israetel one is coming up soon. George Heaton one is coming up soon. Chris Bumstead is coming up soon. So there will be more training. It's like the least

• 58:02Chris Williamson?

  legitimate person to be doing training vlogs in the world, a guy that trains five and a half hours a week. But here we are, we're doing it.

• 58:10Chris Williamson?

  PsyPsycho666, hey Chris, appreciate your content. Congrats on the 2.5 mil. Thank you. I have a question. How'd you get out of a rut? Do you even have ones? Or just your podcast requires you to never get under a certain level? This is a really, that's a really smart insight. I am unbelievably familiar with getting into ruts. And, uh, you know, throughout my twenties, I was pretty sure that I had some intermittent depression thing that would just come along and flatten me. And I had no idea why it was happening. And I would struggle to get out of bed for a couple of days at a time. It wasn't, it wasn't, I wasn't self harming.

• 58:52Chris Williamson?

  I wasn't in the absolute depths of despair, but it was this very normal, very sort of mundane, boring type of depression. It's just this malaise fucking thing that I was swimming in where everything felt heavy. Getting out of bed felt heavy. Going to work felt heavy. Speaking to somebody felt heavy. So I just didn't do it. And I was working for myself. So nobody could tell me to do otherwise. So I'm very, very familiar with it. I actually do think that the pod kind of drags me through. I work very well with accountability and this may be a useful insight to other people too. That, um, one of the reasons that I've been able to stay so consistent with the show

• 59:36Chris Williamson?

  is that there is no way, I'm not going to show up when there is a guest waiting on the other side. Think about how many times when you were in school or university or with a project for work or something where there isn't strictly a deadline. And there's no expectation that you're going to do it. I'm just going to learn Spanish because I'm going to learn Spanish. Or I'm just going to complete this submission early or whatever. You never do, you never do. Because you just continue to expand and expand and you can justify to yourself. You mañana, mañana, mañana. But if you were doing it with somebody else, if you were sitting down to work together, you're not not going to do the work. There's someone there looking at you. You're the partner in this project or your, your teacher at the piano or fucking Spanish or whatever it is that you're doing.

• 1:00:22Chris Williamson?

  And the show has permanently kept me in the presence of an external accountable person. And that's meant that I've never missed, I've never once ever missed an episode, ever. In nearly a thousand episodes, I've never once not shown up. And I've been in like really sad moods, like really, really down moods, although they've gotten less recently. But I do think maybe 50% of it is probably, actually, maybe a third of it is because

• 1:00:54Chris Williamson?

  I've habituated myself into not sort of permitting that milieu to take hold. Maybe another third is that I've improved my quality of life, sleep pattern, diet, training, social circle, weather of where I live, lifestyle stuff. And then the final third is kind of what you said, which is that the pod just means I can't get under a certain level or else I can't perform. And I want to perform. And I care more about being good on the show and about keeping this thing, this thing that I care about going and proving to myself

• 1:01:34Chris Williamson?

  that I can do it. I care more about that than I am worried or prepared to indulge me feeling sad. So, yeah, I think find a pursuit which is stronger or bigger than your bad moods is maybe a lesson to take away from that. LJ Theog12, what advice would you give to rising public figures about dealing with being recognized in public, harassment, stalking, not knowing if someone knows who you are when trying to make new friends, etc.? I'm not sure I'm the person to give this advice. I would love to hear from the person who could give that advice. I can only talk about

• 1:02:17Chris Williamson?

  my own experience. For me, being recognized in public is unanimously good. Nobody has ever said, this isn't a fucking challenge. Okay. But no one ever says nasty things to me in public. No one ever sort of, I mean, what are you gonna say? Like, I didn't like that quote from John Paul Sartre that you said, or you're actually not a public intellectual. And like, bro, the fact that you've considered me to potentially be a public intellectual is a problem of you, not me. I never claimed to be one. Anyway, all the stuff in public's fine. Harassment, stalking, again.

• 1:02:51Chris Williamson?

  I don't know. I think I might be a bit boring, at least like personally quite boring. And also the right level of out there and not out there. I just the harassment stalking thing doesn't doesn't happen. No one. No one seems to care. By luck or by crook, whatever that saying is, I seem to be getting through it. Not knowing if someone knows who you are when trying to make new friends, you seem to really be able to tell that pretty easily. And yeah, Mark Manson has this insight about like friends and fans and the sort of challenge and the tension between the two. But largely, it's just been a mostly enjoyable experience with some

• 1:03:35Chris Williamson?

  mostly self-imposed problems and externalities when it's about the story you tell yourself about who you are. Tangai Renaudi 1261. Hi, Chris. You've become my favorite podcaster by a large margin. I barely look anywhere else anymore. Your insights, examples, aphorisms and quick laughs have opened my eyes to a new way of seeing the world. Thank you. Thank you very much. Here's my question, one I've been wrestling with. How do you raise the bar and the pressure on yourself to work harder and change? When the cost of this hard work seems higher than the life you are already enjoying? What levers can you pull in your environment, in your daily routine to force yourself to change and push harder when life is already pretty fine, but could be better? This seems mostly applicable to employees like me who have a stable nine to five, but dream of more.

• 1:04:21Chris Williamson?

  Great question, and I think it's where a lot of people sit. You know, this is the region beta paradox in many ways. Life is not that bad, but not that good. You kind of have this sense that you're maybe built for more, but you're not too sure. You would have to risk a lot, but not an insurmountable, insurmountable amount. Have to risk a bit, which even makes the fact that you're not making, you're not taking the risk seem embarrassing because it's not everything. But also, how much better could life be? It's largely giving up the good for the great and

• 1:04:55Chris Williamson?

  how do you motivate yourself to do it? So. One of the things that I did, Tony Robbins Awaken the Giant Within has a really weird, if you look on Audible, there is a 90 minute version, which is just workbook exercises. There's a bit of narrative in it, too. I have no idea what the fuck he made this for, but a friend sent it to me. It's so odd, like this thing, it's 20 years old and it's not the book. It's awaken the giant within something. Just do a search and have a look through a bunch of them. And he has a few different exercises, one of which is think about a thing that you want to make a change with now and bring into the present moment, all of the ways it's cost you in the past, it's costing you now and will cost you in the future.

• 1:05:41Chris Williamson?

  All of the situations you've been through where you wish that you could have changed it, what it's doing to your life in the moment, and all of the ways that in the future, this is going to continue to curtail and limit your happiness and your fulfillment. And then do the opposite. Think about how much better life could be if you did do this thing, whatever the thing is, whatever the changes that you're looking to make. And then he redefines change, making the decision to change as taking a physical action that moves your world toward it. So there's no such thing, he says, as making a decision. There is only taking an action. What does it mean to say, I've decided to leave my job? What does it mean? Like, it doesn't mean anything. Just, I have sent an email to my boss asking him for a meeting on Monday.

• 1:06:26Chris Williamson?

  That's taking a step toward leaving a job. Deciding, deciding is bullshit. And I think for the chronic overthinkers amongst us, it's a very good solution. So that was something that worked really hard, really well for me. On top of that,

• 1:06:43Chris Williamson?

  what are you here to do? Are you here to kind of exist in this comfortably numb? Into quartile range, middle period thing of life? Or do you want to make some fucking waves? I want to make some waves. I want to do something that I look back on and I go, yeah, I actually, I made that happen out of nothing. I had an impact. I left a dent and that's not going to happen if you're sitting in good, but not great. And that's fine for a lot of people, but I kind of get the sense that if you're listening to this show and asking questions like that, that that's probably not for you. And unfortunately, the discomfort, which includes potentially letting go of a good life

• 1:07:28Chris Williamson?

  to risk getting a uncertain great life is one of those prices that you have to pay. And that's why so few people do it. But if you want to do it, that's a step that you have to take. Aaron Munt, love your work, mate. What's your favorite cologne to wear? So at the moment, I'm wearing Baccarat Rouge, the yellow version, not the red version. And any of my friends know that like if I ever borrow a hoodie or whatever, that hoodie will stink of it for the next couple of weeks. One of my friends, this ad bucket for the show, Sky, I put his hoodie on a plane, maybe like a year ago. And his girlfriend or his wife, fiance at the time, started complimenting him on how nice he smelled.

• 1:08:11Chris Williamson?

  And he felt like he was being, how would you say? Like nasally cut by me from wearing this thing. But Baccarat Rouge is fantastic. I've been through a few cycles, Penthaligans, Halfetti is fire. That's really, really nice. It's a little bit stronger, bit darker. There was this world in which everybody wore Creed Aventus in Newcastle and it became a meme smell. So I had to stop wearing that. But yeah, Baccarat Rouge at the moment is, is my favorite. And those are the ones, the belters as well.

• 1:08:46Chris Williamson?

  D. Willie eight four oh eight. Do you wake up? Do you feel well rested waking up every day? And if so, what do you attribute it to? I struggle with feeling well rested at seemingly random times. All right, so. Yeah, that's a good question. This year I've had probably the lowest energy I ever have, largely because of fighting with health shit from this previous house. And no, I haven't. I didn't. I'd love to just, you know, be the fucking picture of podcasting health and tell you, yes, I'm always great or whatever.

• 1:09:22Chris Williamson?

  But I'm not. I'm sleeping more than I ever have and feeling less rested. But that's part of the recovery process for this shit I'm going through. I would do a mold check, a toxic mold check on your house. And I would get some immune markers, bloods of immune markers done.

• 1:09:40Chris Williamson?

  Fuck, what are they called?

• 1:09:43Chris Williamson?

  There's a couple of labs that do really great. Break. If you just search for immune marker, uh, blood test, uh, that would be one of the first places that I would go to. Maybe it's something in the environment. Maybe it's something in testosterone levels. Obviously you can get your T levels checked. You can get just like a full blood panel done. Merrickhealth.com slash modern wisdom. And then modern wisdom, I think, is 10% off. If you want to get that done in America, if you're outside of America, go and speak to a doctor. But if you're sleeping well, you shouldn't be tired. And it means there's something else going on. So I hope that you find out what the solution is.

• 1:10:20Chris Williamson?

  Rasmus Kalman. Congrats. Thank you. Question. It seems as though I'm either really productive with work in periods, but my health and joy take a hit, or I'm in full Zen mode, living life, meeting more people in 100% serotonin rasmus mode. Very cool. But fail to get enough work done. So then I feel the lack of purpose and an overwhelming pressure to work harder. Do you run into this problem and how do you deal with it? Is the answer as simple as balance? Finding that seems arduous after all this time. Fucking awesome question, dude. So this is the issue that we have multiple, sometimes conflicting goals in life. And we want to try and do both serotonin chill meditation, have fun with my friends thing, and I also want to be in grind mode.

• 1:11:04Chris Williamson?

  My solution for this, and this is something that I talk about on the new Hormozzi episode, is to have obsession in the micro and variation in the macro. I think the best way to try and work this in is to do, let's say, weekdays, you work hard in grind mode and then on a weekend, you allow yourself a little bit more time to chill out and do stuff. Or if you find that you need to be more committed for a longer period of time, you do one month on and then you have a week where you take a little bit more time to have fun. And if that's not enough, you keep pushing it out until you find the right cadence and the right balance between the two. For me personally, I'm very much a creature of obsession and habit. So I need to be in

• 1:11:47Chris Williamson?

  kind of one mode. I'm either in holiday mode, I mean Venice on a gondola, taking photos of ancient fucking buildings that none of them are straight, or I'm binning myself doing long days and allowing myself to just go fully obsessed. I'm obsessive on both, right? So I'm using my, I think, using my obsession to my advantage, completely dedicated to work and then completely dedicated to holiday. And that pivot seems to work well. So it sounds like you're built at least slightly similarly to me. Allow obsession in the micro and balance in the macro, which is basically periodizing

• 1:12:29Chris Williamson?

  things, right? Health and joy, something that you need to focus on. So how often do you need to have health and joy? And how often do you need to have the work thing in order to satisfy both of them? And then as opposed to trying to balance them across a day, try and balance them across a week or across a month or across a year? That's a much easier way to do it. Same as Mike Israetel said about getting a step count in. It's like, look, my goal is to hit, I think he does 11,000. So his goal is to hit 77,000 steps a week. And if he does 9,000 one day, he can do 13,000 the next day. The same thing goes for calories. It's not about how many calories you eat every day. It's about how many calories you eat per day multiplied across an entire

• 1:13:10Chris Williamson?

  year, right? So it doesn't really matter about how your balances of work within the minute, right? You're not trying to have a little bit of zen and a little bit of grind per minute. So just scale that out. Why do it per day or per week or per month? Periodizing between the two, at least for me, is my current working hypothesis. And I reserve the right to renege on it and say that it was a fucking terrible idea not long ago. Dr. Brian Keating, you said you never aired your interview with Andrew Tate. Why not? Do you not worry about similar damage to your brand that comes from hosting antisemitic misogynists like Dan Bilzerian? What other interest is there other than he's supposedly rich? What's the upside there?

• 1:13:53Chris Williamson?

  Okay, so I think you might be a little confused about why I didn't share the episode with Andrew. I didn't say anything about it being damaged to my brand. I didn't post it because at the time YouTube was taking down any COVID skeptical information. And then the reason that I didn't air it after that was because I actually felt a little bit harsh on Andrew. I don't have really any degree of loyalty, or I don't have any obligation to not stitch him up with a big video, but it just seems like a shitty thing to do. It's not something that you do to somebody else, to post a video of a quite gregarious person talking about a highly chaotic, rapidly moving news situation.

• 1:14:38Chris Williamson?

  Three years later, when we can kind of stress test a lot of the speculation that he was doing, and it would just result in him making a ton of claims that kind of maybe didn't come out to be true, or whatever. And I'm like, well, I don't know, I wouldn't like that if somebody did that about me. And also, it's a bit out of date, and it's three years, and it would have been plainly transparent that the only reason that I was doing that was because he was a massive name, he was the most Googled person in the world. So all of the incentives aligned for me to just not do it. Taking the second question just as its own, do you worry that similar damage to your brand comes from hosting antisemitic misogynists like Dan Bilzerian? So Dan went straight from the episode he did with me to do an episode with Patrick Bet

• 1:15:23Chris Williamson?

  David, and that episode went up before ours went out. Patrick turned his around before mine did, and then Dan started sharing some clips about Israel and his position on that. I don't care about his position on Israel. I didn't know about what his position was, and I didn't have a conversation with him about it. I think that what other interest is there other than he's supposedly rich? Brian, you run a science, mostly science podcast. I think if you were to look at Dan as somebody who has reached the pinnacle of the hedonism mountain and not think that there is something for us to learn from him, that seems quite

• 1:16:07Chris Williamson?

  surprising to me. Maybe it's because running a science podcast, you can't see the angle of this from a personal development lens. But I think that there's an awful lot to learn from somebody who has been to the absolute extreme of fulfilling all of their gratuitous desires. It would be surprising to me that you couldn't see that there would be something to learn. When it comes to damage to my brand, I don't make judgments based on damage to my brand. I speak to people that I'm interested in about things I'm interested in, and that's it. And I'm sure that you do the same on your show. So it wasn't to do with damage, brand damage about Andrew Tate, and I will continue to bring on people

• 1:16:49Chris Williamson?

  that I'm interested in, regardless of what everyone else thinks about them. There's no username here. I'm just going to continue. As a mum of two boys, thank you for discussing issues men face. The dating crisis topics and evolutionary psychology podcasts are amazing and have helped me to build up a library to reference as my boys grow up in this crazy world. In addition, my husband and I have in-depth conversations about how we want to raise our boys while keeping these issues in mind. Thank you. I appreciate that. I very much do. I didn't think about, I don't know, the second order trickle down effect of mums listening to the advice for guys and then teaching it to their sons. But that's pretty cool.

• 1:17:30Chris Williamson?

  Are there any other books or researchers that focus on male adolescent development that you would recommend? Not my area of expertise, but I would just stick to the big ones when it comes to sex differences. I think that you learn an awful lot from the world of evolutionary psychology about how men and women sort of are in a more natural sense in terms of their sort of typical biases. And you can learn an awful lot. The Ape Who Understood the Universe by Steve Stuart Williams, The Moral Animal by Robert Wright, The Happiness Hypothesis by Jonathan Haidt.

• 1:18:05Chris Williamson?

  Richard Reeves of Boys and Men, Billy Nomates, another good book. Who else would be in there?

• 1:18:14Chris Williamson?

  That's a good starting point. And then in terms of followers, like George from the Tin Men is just the absolute best at this sort of men's rights, ascended third wave manosphere stuff at the moment, I think. So I will continue to find the people. Just listen to the show. You don't need to, don't worry about new books or researchers. Just keep listening to the podcast and I will continue to tell you everything. Michael Rooney, nine, three, four, zero. Oh, man. Congrats. Thank you. Now you've been doing the newsletter for a while and have so many people reading. Do you think of yourself as a writer as well as a podcaster? I actually do, which is kind of cool. Didn't ever consider, I don't know, like writer just seems like such a

• 1:18:56Chris Williamson?

  a salubrious title. It seems like something that's in the upper echelons should be able to say. But I've written like over a quarter of a million words since I started that thing. So I guess I, I guess I am a writer and I really like it. Actually, I really think it clarifies my thought in a way that just speaking doesn't just speaking gives me a lot. But writing gives me something else too. So, yeah, I very much, I very much appreciate that. All right. I'm done. That's it. I appreciate you all. Two and a half million subs, which is fucking wild. What are you going to see over the next few weeks? You're going to see Chris Bumstead, you're going to see Leona Deeb, you're going to see Will Tennyson,

• 1:19:37Chris Williamson?

  Jesse James West, you're going to see Casey Neistat. Look at all of this, releasing all of this stuff at the very end, an hour and a half into an episode and so few people are going to get to hear it. That's the little Easter egg that you get for sticking about Ben Shapiro. Ben Shapiro is booked. He's coming on. I'm going to Florida to record with him as well. What's coming up?

• 1:19:57Chris Williamson?

  Hmm. That's kind of it. That's kind of, that's, that's the next few weeks. That'll be happening while this comes out. I will be away. I'll be in Florida. I'll be recording. But I appreciate you all. Thank you for the support and, and the kind questions and the patience of putting up with me while I work out how to navigate all of this stuff. It's very, very meaningful.

• 1:20:22Chris Williamson?

  I'll see you next time.