Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 111: Figure It Out, Kevin

It's time to Rewind with Karen & Georgia! This week, K & G recap Episode 111: Figure It Out, Kevin. Karen covered the Van Nuys Courthouse shooting and Georgia discussed serial killer Juana Barraza, also known as La Mataviejitas. Tune in for all-new commentary, case updates and more! Whether you've listened a thousand times or you're new to the show, join the conversation as we look back on our old episodes and discuss the life lessons we’ve learned along the way. Head to social media to share your favorite moments from this episode! Instagram: instagram.com/myfavoritemurder http://instagram.com/myfavoritemurder Facebook: facebook.com/myfavoritemurder http://facebook.com/myfavoritemurder TikTok: tiktok.com/@my_favorite_murder http://tiktok.com/@my_favorite_murder Now with updated sources and photos: https://www.myfavoritemurder.com/episodes My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. The Exactly Right podcast network provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics, including true crime, comedy, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

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• 1:48Karen Kilgariff?

  Hello.

• 1:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Hello.

• 1:50Karen Kilgariff?

  And welcome.

• 1:51Georgia Hardstark?

  To Rewind with Karen and Georgia.

• 1:53Karen Kilgariff?

  This is the show where we look back on our old episodes from 2018 with all new insights and case updates and pop culture references.

• 2:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Today, we're rewinding to episode 111, which we named Figure It Out, Kevin.

• 2:05Karen Kilgariff?

  This episode originally came out on March 8, 2018.

• 2:08Georgia Hardstark?

  All right, let's listen to the intro of episode 111.

• 2:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Hello.

• 2:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Hi.

• 2:16Karen Kilgariff?

  And welcome.

• 2:17Georgia Hardstark?

  To my favorite.

• 2:19Karen Kilgariff?

  Murder.

• 2:20Georgia Hardstark?

  The podcast, your weekly true crime podcast.

• 2:23Karen Kilgariff?

  Hosted by Karen Kilgariff.

• 2:24Georgia Hardstark?

  And Georgia Hardstark.

• 2:26Karen Kilgariff?

  And that's us.

• 2:27Georgia Hardstark?

  And there's Stephen over there on the ones and twos.

• 2:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Making it even.

• 2:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Happeninger.

• 2:36Georgia Hardstark?

  What were you gonna say?

• 2:36Karen Kilgariff?

  He's making it happeninger.

• 2:38Georgia Hardstark?

  He's making it happening and making it happeninger.

• 2:42Karen Kilgariff?

  Because he took an improv class. He knows how to heighten.

• 2:44Georgia Hardstark?

  He yes-anded.

• 2:46Karen Kilgariff?

  He yes-anded our eternal improv that is this podcast.

• 2:51Georgia Hardstark?

  That's exactly what I was gonna say.

• 2:52Karen Kilgariff?

  And.

• 2:53Georgia Hardstark?

  And. Yes, and. That's correct.

• 2:56Karen Kilgariff?

  The hanging and.

• 2:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Hey, how are you?

• 2:57Karen Kilgariff?

  I'm good.

• 2:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 2:59Karen Kilgariff?

  I feel like a lot of, a lot of actually relevant things have happened since we last recorded.

• 3:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 3:08Karen Kilgariff?

  For us to catch up on.

• 3:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, because we, yeah, because last week we put up a live episode. So when we missed that week, we missed the talking.

• 3:16Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, so we have to talk about the Oscars.

• 3:21Karen Kilgariff?

  What? A monologue? Well, no, the one, the thing I was gonna say, which I'm excited to talk about, is the four-part ID Channel series called The Golden State Killer: It Is Not Over.

• 3:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes.

• 3:36Karen Kilgariff?

  I thought you, I was like, it's not over. Oh. That's the full title.

• 3:39Georgia Hardstark?

  It was, yes.

• 3:40Karen Kilgariff?

  Every time that title card would come up, I'd be like, it's okay, we get it. It's not over.

• 3:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, so The Golden State Killer now is on the fucking tip of everyone's lips.

• 3:49Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right.

• 3:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Because Michelle McNamara's book came out.

• 3:52Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 3:53Georgia Hardstark?

  And I'll Be Gone in the Dark, which I've been listening to obsessively.

• 3:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Yep.

• 4:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Almost done, and I like, don't want to finish it, so I'm listening to other shit, so I don't have to.

• 4:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, so it won't be over?

• 4:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 4:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 4:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Because it's not over.

• 4:07Karen Kilgariff?

  No, I know. It's not over.

• 4:09Georgia Hardstark?

  It's correct. It's not over.

• 4:11Karen Kilgariff?

  You know what's funny is I, so Patton Oswalt, who is Michelle's husband, sent us copies of the book so that we could have it, because he knows. But I forgot that I had pre-ordered it long, long ago.

• 4:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 4:25Karen Kilgariff?

  So I had two copies. I was holding yours, because he sent them both to my house. Then, a couple days later, I got a third. So now me, you, and Stephen all have copies of Michelle's book. But the cool news is that Patton just sent me a picture today of the New York Times Book Review Bestsellers list. And Michelle is number one on the nonfiction list.

• 4:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes.

• 4:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, she's number one, and it's so cool, like, it's so, as a person who followed her from True Crime Diary, and I used to just pour over that thing, I remember the post that she wrote when she talked about how Iran's original night stalker, that it was too confusing and it needed a better title. And she, it was her idea to call him The Golden State Killer.

• 5:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Which is so like, forward-thinking.

• 5:12Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 5:13Georgia Hardstark?

  In a way that's like, you know, this needs to be, and people need to know what this is, because there's all these victims who are not getting the attention that they deserve to have their case solved. So if we give it a better name, people will pay attention to it more.

• 5:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Exactly.

• 5:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Which is so smart. It's not something I would ever have thought of, you know, of, you know, that that's important and why.

• 5:32Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, she was, she was very masterful in the whole, her whole approach to it was so good, she got cops to start talking to each other, to share information. It's, it's a very cool story, and I'm sure most of the people listening to this are either reading it right now or listening to it right now in some way. I'm sure that has a lot to do with that, those numbers on that list. So, good job, you guys. I'm so excited and thrilled that she gets that kind of remembrance, and also that it gets that level of exposure.

• 5:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 6:00Karen Kilgariff?

  But you know what I was gonna say is that ID Channel, I was actually looking, because it's produced so well.

• 6:06Georgia Hardstark?

  It is.

• 6:07Karen Kilgariff?

  And it's a company called Sirens Productions, which makes me think it's the ladies. But they have survivors. They have victims of The Golden State Killer when he was the East Area Rapist in Sacramento, and some people from down here.

• 6:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 6:21Karen Kilgariff?

  But I'm thinking of those first, when the first couple of his, like, original victims were talking, I got really nervous that it was like, how is this gonna get handled?

• 6:32Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 6:32Karen Kilgariff?

  And they were the, it was just that thing of like, people who had been through the shit.

• 6:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Strong. The victims that were interviewed here, and like, the victims' family members were interviewed as well, are strong, fucking resilient people. It's...

• 6:45Karen Kilgariff?

  That are just there to be like, we want this solved. We want anybody who knows anything, and we...

• 6:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Because it's, it's really frustrating, and like, I'm knee-deep in it right now from watching that and from listening to the book. And, and of course, after, you know, I listen, I go on Reddit, and I read all the message boards, and I read all the theories. And so I'm kind of in that phase of like, being inside of this insane case. And it's really frustrating and angering, because it doesn't make any fucking sense that it hasn't been solved, that he hasn't been found. It doesn't make any sense.

• 7:16Karen Kilgariff?

  Except for the fact that it was the 70s in the beginning, and then he did the classic thing that, that every time, it's like, when you switch cities, or change jurisdictions, communication stops.

• 7:29Georgia Hardstark?

  As soon as they found that out, they, there should be, there is enough evidence, and I can, I'm saying this for like, the cops too, they must be so frustrated with this.

• 7:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 7:37Georgia Hardstark?

  It's like, to piece those then together and be like, okay, this is the suspect we thought it was, and now we can match him up, because he was in Irvine too. And it almost would make it more solvable now.

• 7:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Right.

• 7:47Georgia Hardstark?

  But it's not.

• 7:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, yes, because it doesn't, there's, it's not like there is a database. It's that thing where when you try to look anything up from before 1990,

• 7:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 7:58Karen Kilgariff?

  there's nothing there, because it was all paper, or it was documented in some other way. Like, that was the, I loved the fact that they had the detective, female detective, who worked on it in the 70s, who was the woman who was speaking. She, I was telling Georgia this. She was speaking at that very infamous, this, the town hall meeting, where a man stood up, said, I don't understand, this is impossible, that anybody could, if there's a man in the house, that anybody would, that their wife would be attacked.

• 8:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 8:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Blah, blah, blah. And then like, a month later, that family was attacked.

• 8:32Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally.

• 8:32Karen Kilgariff?

  Just horrifying, and, and they know then that that meant he was there. And he was this really high-level predator. But she, this detective in this meeting, is telling the women in the room, she literally says the words, don't be polite, attack him, and try to injure him.

• 8:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 8:48Karen Kilgariff?

  If you can at all, if you get the upper hand in any way, try to injure him. And hearing a woman in 1977

• 8:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally.

• 8:56Karen Kilgariff?

  go, don't be polite to people.

• 8:58Georgia Hardstark?

  We, she says like, we've been raised to be polite, and to be, and don't do that, and blah, blah. Yeah, it's incredible.

• 9:04Karen Kilgariff?

  And to, to this day, she's as sharp as a tack.

• 9:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 9:07Karen Kilgariff?

  She looks amazing. She's like, right there. And she's, everything she said was just so, you know, it was very, it was all about, we need this salute, we need the families that have gone through so much that are still living with this weird fear, because nothing was resolved. That they need that resolution.

• 9:25Georgia Hardstark?

  It just, the whole, the whole story, I'm like, kind of obsessed with, and gives me the creeps. And I think for you and I, being in California, and northern for you, and southern for me, and these, in our neighborhoods

• 9:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 9:38Georgia Hardstark?

  that we're from.

• 9:39Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 9:39Georgia Hardstark?

  And kind of, I think what's so freaky is that he, he went to these planned communities that were, you know, family communities, and just terrorized them. Like houses, next, almost next door houses.

• 9:54Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 9:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Attacking and raping women inside of them. It's just, the whole story is a nightmare.

• 10:00Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, like the, that it wasn't.

• 10:02Georgia Hardstark?

  And the, he's weird. There's something wrong with him.

• 10:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 10:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Like, not just, obviously a rapist, there's something wrong with him, but the stuff that he takes, eating and hanging out, and he's like a.

• 10:13Karen Kilgariff?

  He's got some, there's, you can tell there's some narrative in his head. And what's, okay, and also can we just talk for one second about how, what are the odds that you have a story and a, and a case that's this insane and compelling and years long? And then one of the lead investigators is just, is simply beautiful TV ready detective.

• 10:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Doctor or Detective.

• 10:39Karen Kilgariff?

  Every time he spoke, I was like, your teeth are perfectly white.

• 10:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God. He looked like Robocop.

• 10:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, he looked, you know, he looked like his Hunter. Remember that old eighties TV show Hunter?

• 10:50Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 10:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Where the guy, they literally had, the FCC came and said, you have to wear underwear. You never heard about that?

• 10:56Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 10:57Karen Kilgariff?

  Hunter.

• 11:01Karen Kilgariff?

  She was like, go to bed, mommy's gonna watch Hunter.

• 11:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Well, you know what I keep doing in my obsessiveness is like, who, okay, who did my mom date at that time? Because he was in Irvine in 1986, so I was six years old. So I'm like, who did my mom date anyone at that time? Is that who the murderer is? Like, it's so scary.

• 11:18Karen Kilgariff?

  So scary.

• 11:20Georgia Hardstark?

  But yeah, it's, it's just like, it's, it blows my mind.

• 11:24Karen Kilgariff?

  It's, it's, it has to get solved.

• 11:27Georgia Hardstark?

  I know, and it's gonna be really exciting when it does. But also bittersweet from Michelle and like, listening to the book, every time they say, or every time in the book, it says like, the next chapter is accumulated from her notes.

• 11:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 11:41Georgia Hardstark?

  It just hurts me in the heart every time I see that or hear that.

• 11:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 11:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Cause it's just, and then the obsession and I kinda, it reminded me a lot of that obsession that I used to have at a desk job. When I would just sit and read blogs like that and stories like that, which weren't written in that way then. They were kind of just like stories you had to kinda put together based on, you know, Reddit and stuff like that.

• 12:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, cause her writing is so, it's true crime written gorgeously.

• 12:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 12:08Karen Kilgariff?

  So like, when I used to read that blog, you would just read these stories and like, I have all these stories stuck in my head, not because, oh, it's, it's because she wrote it almost first person in this way. Like she got so into what was happening in this person's life. And then they disappeared and it's just.

• 12:26Georgia Hardstark?

  She really got what it's like to be obsessed with true, to be a person who can't sleep and just is obsessed with true crime.

• 12:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 12:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Obsessed with a case or cases or anything. It definitely feels like what people have said to us, which is like, you've made it, you made me not seem like, feel like a weirdo because of it. It feels like I'm not a creep for liking, for being this obsessed with true crime to the point where I can't sleep at night.

• 12:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, because it's these questions that it's the worst case scenario, something happening and then just unanswered questions. So it's what, what are the events leading up to this? How did it happen? Why did it happen? Like, those are things that, it's better than a TV show or something like that. It's like, it re, and I don't mean better. It's more interesting and engaging and kind of like, this is a fellow human being that just disappeared off the face of the earth.

• 13:20Georgia Hardstark?

  And, sorry, and it's like, and this and that, but the way she makes, the way she tells the story of the victim and tells you who they are, you know, before what happens to them happens.

• 13:32Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 13:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Is, it gives it such a more vivid and such a fuller picture, a picture of how horrible it was to be, to live in that time, to be a victim, to live in that neighborhood at the time.

• 13:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 13:46Georgia Hardstark?

  To be scared. I had no clue. I couldn't picture it until she kind of explained it.

• 13:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Right? Yeah. She'd like, that book starts off with like her, like how it's first started for her. And it was because there was a murder in her town. It's fascinating.

• 14:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, that murder was fucked up too. Oh, my God. I can't wait to start reading it again, which I'm going to.

• 14:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, it's very, it's, it's just a, it's bittersweet. It's, but it's also cool that it's out there and it's gonna be very, very interesting to see.

• 14:12Georgia Hardstark?

  And that her name will forever be, you know, when they do catch this guy, her name will, cause they're going to, there's no way it's not gonna happen. But her name will always be connected to this case that obsessed her.

• 14:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 14:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Which is.

• 14:25Karen Kilgariff?

  And what I also think is cool in that special is how they really featured the, what were they calling them? The like, the basically the people that were trying to solve it online.

• 14:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, citizen sleuths?

• 14:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Citizen.

• 14:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Armchair sleuths?

• 14:41Georgia Hardstark?

  I think I said it, which we laughed every time they said it.

• 14:43Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 14:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Cause it sounds so stupid, but it's true. I get it.

• 14:47Karen Kilgariff?

  And when you, like on the surface, but those guys put, taking, I mean, digging into this research.

• 14:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God.

• 14:54Karen Kilgariff?

  Talk about like, yeah, like doing the hardest work of all, which is just like, we went through records. This is the company that was building houses at this time. Like all, they're taking the police evidence and matching it to records and then going.

• 15:09Georgia Hardstark?

  I think, I mean.

• 15:10Karen Kilgariff?

  It's amazing.

• 15:11Georgia Hardstark?

  And I think all of that combined, the fact that there isn't some fucking woman coming forward being like, yeah, so my stepbrother was a creep back then and you might wanna look into him. He lived in Sacramento. Our grandma lived in fucking Goleta and you need to look into him. Like, how has that not happened yet?

• 15:31Karen Kilgariff?

  I don't know. Or maybe it's people who don't either, some, I don't know. It makes me think of like.

• 15:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Someone has a hunch that it's their whatever nephew.

• 15:40Karen Kilgariff?

  Maybe they don't wanna face it or they don't want it to be real.

• 15:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Well, I said to events when we were talking about this kind of thing, I was like, and then we were talking about how Ted Kaczynski's brother is the one who fucking was like, you need to look into my brother and how hard that must have been. And I was like, would you turn in your brother if you found out something was going on? He was like, absolutely fucking literally I would. And I'm fucking heart, like, it's people like us. So we're like, yes, I'd be so stoked to be like, look at Asher. He fucking did it. Not because I wanted my brother to be a murderer, but because it's like, you can't do that. It's not okay. But then I was like, well, what if you thought, suspected something about me? And he was like, oh, well, we'd have to have a long talk. Like, I don't know what that means.

• 16:20Karen Kilgariff?

  You get one final breakfast?

• 16:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 16:22Karen Kilgariff?

  We talk it over for breakfast.

• 16:24Georgia Hardstark?

  I was about to say, you get one murder and that's it.

• 16:26Karen Kilgariff?

  You know, and in this relationship, I'll give you one freebie. It's the murder hall pass. Um, no, yeah, anyway, it's just kind of, it's just so strange. And it's all kind of coming to the fore now. So, but it's also good. On a happy note. But this is an email that Stephen found for us, that just pulled for us. Karen, Georgia, Stephen and assorted pets. First off, your Columbus Ohio show was great. I just wanted to let you know that my husband greatly appreciated your huge shout out for his website, www.pumpkinshow.com. I think your mention just increased the show's foot traffic for this year.

• 17:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God.

• 17:06Karen Kilgariff?

  The Columbarinos are expecting, Columbarinos are expecting to have a meetup at the show.

• 17:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God, the pumpkin show?

• 17:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 17:15Georgia Hardstark?

  I love it.

• 17:16Karen Kilgariff?

  That is, oh, okay. My husband is a native circle, native of Circleville. And he's been involved with the pumpkin show since the late nineties and has done their website since then. He even purchased a domain.

• 17:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Holy shit.

• 17:29Karen Kilgariff?

  When no one even knew what a domain name was. He is also the photographer of the giant pumpkins in your slide.

• 17:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God.

• 17:36Karen Kilgariff?

  The pictures on the site. We were cracking up the whole time as Circleville is serious about their pumpkins. It is the oldest and largest show of its kind in the country and maybe the world. Thanks again for the shout out on the show. Safe travels around the globe, ladies.

• 17:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God, like going to the pumpkin show.

• 17:52Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, right. Tiffany and Kevin.

• 17:55Georgia Hardstark?

  That's amazing.

• 17:55Karen Kilgariff?

  Kevin's the webmaster for pump, www.pumpkinshow.com.

• 18:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God. That's amazing.

• 18:02Karen Kilgariff?

  So funny.

• 18:03Georgia Hardstark?

  I love, the reach is just far reaching.

• 18:06Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, here's the thing, in our experiences, when you go onto a website, it's a high quality website. You, you give credit because that credit is due. How, how many websites are there out there? It was just sitting out there excellently. Unknown.

• 18:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Waiting to be grabbed.

• 18:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Waiting to be seen.

• 18:25Georgia Hardstark?

  And talked about.

• 18:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 18:27Georgia Hardstark?

  And, you know.

• 18:29Karen Kilgariff?

  We did it.

• 18:29Georgia Hardstark?

  And you did it. We did it.

• 18:30Karen Kilgariff?

  We all did it.

• 18:31Georgia Hardstark?

  We did it together, you guys.

• 18:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Now we start the podcast that's all about life.

• 18:36Georgia Hardstark?

  That we wanted to start originally.

• 18:39Karen Kilgariff?

  Remember when we talked about it?

• 18:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, about pumpkins.

• 18:42Karen Kilgariff?

  Pumpkins.

• 18:43Georgia Hardstark?

  And life.

• 18:44Karen Kilgariff?

  It's basically a podcast where we, um, figure out a way to sue Kevin for www.pumpkinshow.com and we take ownership.

• 18:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Called Squad Gords. If we could get, if we could get a hacker to please hack the pumpkin show website.

• 19:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 19:01Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm kidding. No, don't do it. Stop it hacker. This hacker's like, her hands are like over the keyboard about to be like, do, do, do, do, whatever the fuck they do on movies.

• 19:09Karen Kilgariff?

  She's got, yeah, she's got fingersless gloves and she's.

• 19:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Numbers are going, numbers, numbers, numbers in her head.

• 19:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Drinking coffee, doing lines.

• 19:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 19:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Just like hacking.

• 19:19Georgia Hardstark?

  And then we're like, wait, Melissa? Hold it.

• 19:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Don't do that.

• 19:22Georgia Hardstark?

  What's her hacker name?

• 19:24Karen Kilgariff?

  It's, um, Melissa eight.

• 19:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Melissa eight, hack your, hack your, you are life.

• 19:33Karen Kilgariff?

  It's dark web Melissa.

• 19:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Dark web Lisa. Lisa in the dark.

• 19:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Yep. Liza with a Z.

• 19:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Liza.

• 19:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 19:41Georgia Hardstark?

  And that's it. That, that whole thing was her name, what we just.

• 19:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Dot com, dot net.

• 19:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 19:48Karen Kilgariff?

  What are hackers really like? Let us know if you're a hacker.

• 19:51Georgia Hardstark?

  They're the people who, when you're at the coffee shop and they have a full computer there and they're using eight outlets. Those are them. They're not cool.

• 19:59Karen Kilgariff?

  They're always, it's always, hackers always work in cafes.

• 20:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Wait, I don't wanna insult any hackers though, because.

• 20:06Karen Kilgariff?

  I wouldn't. All the lights go off.

• 20:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Terrible idea.

• 20:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Didn't you watch Mr. Robot or whatever the fuck that show's called?

• 20:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Did.

• 20:13Karen Kilgariff?

  It was good.

• 20:14Georgia Hardstark?

  That's so good.

• 20:14Karen Kilgariff?

  It's really good.

• 20:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Hackers, we love you.

• 20:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Unite.

• 20:18Georgia Hardstark?

  We have a tribute to you. They all look like Angelina Jolie in the movie.

• 20:22Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right.

• 20:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Hackers. Was it called Hackers?

• 20:24Karen Kilgariff?

  The show Hackers.

• 20:25Georgia Hardstark?

  The show?

• 20:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Movie Hackers. No, no, I know the movie you're talking about. It's, it's where, where Johnny Lee Miller, the British actor and.

• 20:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Ryan Felipe? Was Ryan Felipe in that?

• 20:37Karen Kilgariff?

  I don't know.

• 20:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Picture?

• 20:39Karen Kilgariff?

  I think Stephen's gonna tell us.

• 20:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 20:41Karen Kilgariff?

  I think it's called something like The Motherboard. No, that's not correct.

• 20:48Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, I do know what movie, you're thinking of Antitrust with Ryan Felipe. Okay. Did I just mash up two? That was a, that was another movie? Okay. Classic mashup. Was he a hacker in that? He was like, um, it was like Bill Gates was played by, um, not Tim Robbins. Chris Cooper? I forget what his name is, but he like, was like a Bill Gates type and he was.

• 21:09Georgia Hardstark?

  We need a Stephen to look up you. Our Stephen.

• 21:12Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right. He was like, it was like a, yeah, it was like a Bill Gates guy who was like stealing like. Young people's technology and Ryan Felipe was like uncovering Young people. The conspiracy. What's the other one?

• 21:24Georgia Hardstark?

  The MTV website?

• 21:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. Oh, yeah. And this hackers was from was Angelina Jolie was released in 95. It was called hackers.

• 21:33Georgia Hardstark?

  They just went for the lowest common denominator.

• 21:35Karen Kilgariff?

  Johnny Lee Miller. Did it have a Z in it? No, unfortunately.

• 21:39Georgia Hardstark?

  That's the remake.

• 21:40Karen Kilgariff?

  Now, what was the movie The Motherboard that I'm talking about?

• 21:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Was there a movie called The Motherboard, a B movie in the 60s?

• 21:50Karen Kilgariff?

  About women with children who get tied to boards?

• 21:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Or just like the mom is bored and they like, okay, whatever.

• 21:58Karen Kilgariff?

  The motherboard, or it could be a female CEO with children. The motherboard, she is in charge, she makes all the decisions.

• 22:07Georgia Hardstark?

  You know what? I'm gonna try, parenting's not working. I'm gonna try acting like a computer. I'm gonna, I'm gonna make a computer version of me, the mom.

• 22:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 22:15Georgia Hardstark?

  As a stand-in, it looks exactly like her, but it's, she's controlling it.

• 22:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Yep.

• 22:19Georgia Hardstark?

  From her, from San Tropez, from her.

• 22:23Karen Kilgariff?

  Listen, from what's this called?

• 22:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Why did I pick a name I can't say? I don't know.

• 22:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Saint Tropez?

• 22:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Saint Tropez.

• 22:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Now, if you were 10 years older.

• 22:33Karen Kilgariff?

  From Bora, Bora, Bora. If you were, if you were 10 years older, you would know that because it's from the Band of Soleil commercial. The theme song, Band of Soleil, back when we didn't know anything about SPF or skin cancer. Band of Soleil was essentially Wesson oil in a beautiful bottle. And in the summer, you would just put, it smelled so good.

• 22:54Georgia Hardstark?

  It's just baby oil to lay in the sun in.

• 22:56Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 22:56Georgia Hardstark?

  And give yourself cancer.

• 22:58Karen Kilgariff?

  And there was a little bit of orange dye in it so that you kind of

• 23:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Not on.

• 23:01Karen Kilgariff?

  You would seem tanned just by putting it on. And the themes or the, the jingle was Band is so late for the Saint Tropez tan. It was so high glamour.

• 23:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God.

• 23:15Karen Kilgariff?

  That's all I wanted to do is have a Saint Tropez tan when I was 10.

• 23:19Georgia Hardstark?

  I mean, I still do, if I'm gonna be honest.

• 23:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Band is so late. Have you seen that commercial, Stephen? No.

• 23:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Nobody's seen it. I haven't seen it.

• 23:27Karen Kilgariff?

  I'm like the last fucking white rhino. I'm so old. And I only, only me and a handful of people know my references.

• 23:37Georgia Hardstark?

  That reminds me, you're gonna, Vincent, I just remembered that you're gonna be, uh, birthday.

• 23:42Karen Kilgariff?

  92.

• 23:45Georgia Hardstark?

  You're gonna be birthdaying when we're in Europe, right?

• 23:48Karen Kilgariff?

  In, when we're in Oslo.

• 23:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, cool.

• 23:50Karen Kilgariff?

  It's my birthday.

• 23:51Georgia Hardstark?

  Ooh, let's go find like a reindeer restaurant and fucking eat reindeer for your birthday.

• 23:56Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 23:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 23:57Karen Kilgariff?

  Let's eat a live reindeer. Let's catch and kill.

• 24:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 24:01Karen Kilgariff?

  I, yeah. Gorgeous animals.

• 24:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Let's do it.

• 24:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Do you remember in Chef's Table, I think it's season one, maybe season two? There's the guy who, who, his restaurant is Viking food?

• 24:14Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 24:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Did you not watch that series?

• 24:16Georgia Hardstark?

  I don't think I did. I think I meant to.

• 24:18Karen Kilgariff?

  I thought you would, I thought you, I just automatically assumed you would have.

• 24:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Think that, you know, I get it.

• 24:23Karen Kilgariff?

  He, he gives you a dish and it's, he lights like peat moss on fire and then cooks like three herring.

• 24:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Or like, it's like a bowl and it's like a bog water.

• 24:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 24:33Georgia Hardstark?

  And it's like, have you seen the bodies in the bog?

• 24:36Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, you mean the, the ones that have always been there?

• 24:39Georgia Hardstark?

  The bog bodies?

• 24:40Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, the ones that are kind of orange.

• 24:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 24:42Karen Kilgariff?

  They have hair and faces.

• 24:43Georgia Hardstark?

  And nails.

• 24:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Yo, yeah.

• 24:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Ooh, look that up, you guys. That's fucking, that's a, that's a big bog hole to get into.

• 24:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Get into that bog hole.

• 24:51Georgia Hardstark?

  So you want to go to that restaurant? Do you want to go get Viking food?

• 24:54Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, but I think we'd have to drive like four hours north

• 24:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Vince.

• 24:57Karen Kilgariff?

  Of Oslo or wherever we are. I'm not even sure it's in Norway.

• 25:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Vince.

• 25:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Which is the worst part.

• 25:03Georgia Hardstark?

  That's for Vince to find out. That's for our tour manager.

• 25:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Stephen, will you look really quick, just so I'm not a total fool, in case, if this is like in a very obvious other, like

• 25:14Georgia Hardstark?

  I don't think you need to worry.

• 25:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Nordic country, I'm gonna get really depressed. But I think it is Norway.

• 25:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Well, you wouldn't know the name of the restaurant? You're just asking him to look up what?

• 25:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, just ask him to help confirm me and just affirm me as a person.

• 25:29Georgia Hardstark?

  I hear you.

• 25:30Karen Kilgariff?

  I don't even know how you'd look.

• 25:32Georgia Hardstark?

  I hear what you're saying.

• 25:34Karen Kilgariff?

  I hear, I hear that you're saying hackers.

• 25:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 25:37Karen Kilgariff?

  And I'm gonna tell you, you're wrong. It's The Motherboard.

• 25:44Georgia Hardstark?

  See, okay.

• 25:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, can I just say this? We haven't really talked about the alienist recently.

• 25:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, yeah. Are you watching?

• 25:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, loving it.

• 25:51Georgia Hardstark?

  My machine isn't TiVo-ing it.

• 25:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Is it not?

• 25:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Cause it's not a TiVo, one, it's a fucking DirecTV, but two, in addition.

• 25:59Karen Kilgariff?

  It starts at six.

• 26:00Georgia Hardstark?

  It didn't record it. Is it good?

• 26:02Karen Kilgariff?

  It's so good. I watch every episode twice.

• 26:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 26:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, my gosh. Because I love the fucking art direction.

• 26:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 26:11Karen Kilgariff?

  I want to go back in time, please. I just want to see what it would really look like to walk down the street in like Lower East Side.

• 26:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Here's what I think you would notice, not what it looks like, but the smell.

• 26:23Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 26:23Georgia Hardstark?

  You gotta, you gotta think about that, man. It stunk so bad.

• 26:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Everybody stunk and it stunk, but still I just, the visual of it.

• 26:32Georgia Hardstark?

  Did they even have toilet paper back then?

• 26:34Karen Kilgariff?

  No, they used papyrus.

• 26:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Right?

• 26:39Karen Kilgariff?

  Uh huh. From the Bible? Uh, swinging back around, the restaurant was FaViken and, and it's in Sweden, so.

• 26:48Georgia Hardstark?

  We're going to Sweden.

• 26:49Karen Kilgariff?

  But you are going to Sweden. Oh, we are?

• 26:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 26:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, great. Yeah, you'll be in Stockholm, so it doesn't say what city. I bet it's only seven hours outside of Stockholm.

• 26:58Georgia Hardstark?

  We're going to a McDonald's for your birthday. Look, you're getting real complicated.

• 27:03Karen Kilgariff?

  I'm gonna be like, I don't know, it's just like the McDonald's here is better.

• 27:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, it feels real.

• 27:09Karen Kilgariff?

  It's like, I can taste the clogs. But I bet you there's some fancy restaurant that, that's there.

• 27:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 27:16Karen Kilgariff?

  Shit, sorry, guys.

• 27:17Georgia Hardstark?

  No, whatever.

• 27:18Karen Kilgariff?

  I was actually, you know, who knows a lot about Norway?

• 27:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Norway jeans?

• 27:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Is our accountant.

• 27:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Really?

• 27:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Yep.

• 27:30Georgia Hardstark?

  That's weird.

• 27:31Karen Kilgariff?

  She was talking all about if we go, she was so excited that we're going to Europe.

• 27:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God.

• 27:37Karen Kilgariff?

  So excited that we're going to Amsterdam.

• 27:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 27:39Karen Kilgariff?

  She started naming all these places we need to go in Amsterdam and things we need to do.

• 27:44Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm down for that.

• 27:46Karen Kilgariff?

  One, one of the things she said is so worth it, you can get on a bus and go to tulip farms. Big, huge tulip farms and just walk around and see, because they're gonna be in bloom while we're there.

• 27:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God.

• 27:58Karen Kilgariff?

  I like tulips. I love tulips so much.

• 28:05Georgia Hardstark?

  We're gonna see them in the ground.

• 28:06Karen Kilgariff?

  We're gonna see them growing in the ground.

• 28:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Big, big swaths of purple tulips.

• 28:14Karen Kilgariff?

  God, guys.

• 28:16Georgia Hardstark?

  God and, you know.

• 28:19Karen Kilgariff?

  All his friends.

• 28:20Georgia Hardstark?

  All his friends are there and they're happy for you and they're ready for you.

• 28:24Karen Kilgariff?

  It's gonna be the best feeling.

• 28:26Georgia Hardstark?

  It's gonna be the best, it's gonna be a tulip farm.

• 28:28Karen Kilgariff?

  We're going to meet God in Amsterdam and go to a tulip farm with him.

• 28:32Georgia Hardstark?

  All the fucking religious people just unsubscribed. Tulip lovers.

• 28:36Karen Kilgariff?

  Right?

• 28:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Unsubscribe.

• 28:37Karen Kilgariff?

  What? They should be on our side.

• 28:39Georgia Hardstark?

  I don't know why they're so mad at us in this story.

• 28:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Kissing their fucking asses right now.

• 28:43Georgia Hardstark?

  We're fucking blowing them up right now.

• 28:45Karen Kilgariff?

  We're like, oh, do you like tulips? We, we like what you like.

• 28:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, tulip murderinos are like

• 28:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Tulipino?

• 28:51Georgia Hardstark?

  Finally, our time, yeah.

• 28:52Karen Kilgariff?

  Jerry Tulipino?

• 28:54Georgia Hardstark?

  There you go.

• 28:57Karen Kilgariff?

  Jesus Christ. Guys, a full apologies.

• 29:01Georgia Hardstark?

  All apologies.

• 29:06Karen Kilgariff?

  And we're back.

• 29:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Who'd have known that a month later, the fucking Golden State Killer case would be solved?

• 29:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Looking back on this is always the weirdest to me.

• 29:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 29:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Because it's gigantic and we, we knew it was like as it was unfolding, but it's so the idea that this man was arrested, did go to jail, that that actually happened in our lifetime and we all got to witness it is it's just like people never give it what it's due.

• 29:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. It feels like a foundational part of the podcast too, because it was, you know, kind of in the first couple of years and it was something that we had talked about multiple times with Michelle McNamara and us being such huge fans of hers. And then for all of this to play out was just incredible.

• 29:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Right. And this is two years after those first episodes where we talked about True Crime Diary.

• 29:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 29:57Karen Kilgariff?

  Her blog in the first episode, I believe.

• 29:59Georgia Hardstark?

  That's right, because you've covered this case.

• 30:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, it's just, yeah, it's very foundational to us and what it was like kind of making the show.

• 30:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally. And then Pull Holes is like now part of the, our fucking network. So it's just very matrix-y.

• 30:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Very fateful feeling. It's pretty incredible. Just, just like it was so fateful that we covered the Circleville pumpkin. Well, first of all, we covered the Circleville letter thing at that live show.

• 30:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, and then got obsessed with the Pumpkin Show, of course, the Circleville Pumpkin Show.

• 30:35Karen Kilgariff?

  How did I forget? I literally did forget it was called The Pumpkin Show.

• 30:39Georgia Hardstark?

  What'd you call it?

• 30:40Karen Kilgariff?

  Which was my favorite part about it. Just like, like I always thought it was festival or something. Like I knew it happened in Circleville.

• 30:46Georgia Hardstark?

  It's a show, baby.

• 30:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, it's a fucking show.

• 30:49Georgia Hardstark?

  And actually, it's still going on, the Circleville Pumpkin Show. It's official website, currently bills it at Ohio's oldest festival. And the 119th Circleville Pumpkin Show is scheduled for October 21st through the 24th of this year. And my God, can you imagine?

• 31:07Karen Kilgariff?

  In 2025, the largest pumpkin winner, the pumpkin weighed 1,972 pounds.

• 31:13Georgia Hardstark?

  What else? What's the size of that? How much does a cow weigh? What's this, what is a, let me see.

• 31:17Karen Kilgariff?

  I know, that's a good question.

• 31:19Georgia Hardstark?

  How much does a?

• 31:20Karen Kilgariff?

  My guess, okay, 800 pounds is a cow.

• 31:23Georgia Hardstark?

  I got it. That's my guess. 1,200 to 1,500. It's the size of a fucking cow.

• 31:28Karen Kilgariff?

  It's bigger. Because this is almost 2,000 pounds, this, the winner was.

• 31:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Wait, did I say that wrong? Yeah, you're right. Bigger than a motherfucking cow.

• 31:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Than a cow. Should we talk about how for all our big talk, when we were in Amsterdam and Oslo, we never went to see the tulips?

• 31:46Georgia Hardstark?

  We didn't see anything. I don't think we realized what touring overseas was going to take out of us on a day to day basis.

• 31:53Karen Kilgariff?

  We couldn't be tourists on our own tour. We wanted to be and we were kind of trying to make noises like we were going to be. And then it was like, you know, I'm not getting on a bus to go see tulips.

• 32:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Oslo is also the city where our luggage didn't show up with us.

• 32:09Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right.

• 32:09Georgia Hardstark?

  So we had to go on stage and kind of like what we wore on the plane and yeah, so that was a little bit of a bummer.

• 32:16Karen Kilgariff?

  And I had some weird sort of jet lag thing happening where I was like, it felt like I was about nine hours behind. And I was like, when I was awake, I was all fucked up and then I couldn't sleep and it was wild.

• 32:29Georgia Hardstark?

  It's like when you're on acid and you're like, your hand trails behind your hand, you know? It's like, that's how life, life is trailing behind.

• 32:37Karen Kilgariff?

  It's all just trailing and you're just like, what is this? Why do people come and watch us? I'm wearing pajamas on stage.

• 32:44Georgia Hardstark?

  What is even happening?

• 32:45Karen Kilgariff?

  And that show was actually great that we did in Oslo.

• 32:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. Oh God, it was so fun.

• 32:49Karen Kilgariff?

  It was so good.

• 32:50Georgia Hardstark?

  There's something about going on stage in like basically pajamas that makes like the pressure a little lower, you know?

• 32:56Karen Kilgariff?

  Right. We had a good story to kick off that show.

• 32:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 32:59Karen Kilgariff?

  They were all very into it and just like, it was a real happy to be there situation. Plus architecturally, whatever room that was in, it was like, it was like a beautiful auditorium from 1970.

• 33:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally. It was beautiful. Um, okay. Let's get into your story about the Van Nuys courthouse shooting.

• 33:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Who goes first this week?

• 33:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Karen. Kilgariff. All right.

• 33:32Georgia Hardstark?

  None other than Karen Kilgariff.

• 33:34Karen Kilgariff?

  Now, from Columbus?

• 33:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 33:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay. No, I'm from Northern California now.

• 33:43Karen Kilgariff?

  So when I sat down to do my murder this week, tonight, four hours ago, I was like, here's what I did. So, um, and we talked about this two weeks ago, um, how somebody accidentally ordered, they meant to order themselves packets of the true crime, uh, trading cards and they ended up ordering boxes. So they gave us each one.

• 34:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 34:10Karen Kilgariff?

  I was sitting there and I have this really weird habit of like, when I'm like, um, what I like to call processing my mail, quote unquote. I just put things in piles on my counter and then spend days figuring out where they need to go in my house. And that true crime, the box of true crime cards was sitting on my counter unopened and I kept moving it around. Like people would come over and I'd have.

• 34:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Where's it gonna live?

• 34:34Karen Kilgariff?

  Right. Well, I decided it doesn't fucking need to live. I'm opening up box and I'm opening every packet.

• 34:41Georgia Hardstark?

  What the fuck?

• 34:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. This is my box. And why am I gonna like save it like some Star Wars nerd? Sorry. And then.

• 34:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Unsubscribe.

• 34:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Unsubscribe. Steven gets up, storms out, throws himself over the railing like a podcast log. But I was like, why am I saving this? These, this is my thing that I like. I want to look at every one of these cards.

• 35:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Go crazy.

• 35:02Karen Kilgariff?

  So I opened all of them. The problem was I got halfway through and realized these are always going, there's only like say five sets.

• 35:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 35:11Karen Kilgariff?

  And I'm just repeating them.

• 35:12Georgia Hardstark?

  So you have, yeah, I see what you're saying.

• 35:15Karen Kilgariff?

  But my worry was I would think that was true and then miss a set. So then I just opened every single one.

• 35:21Georgia Hardstark?

  And this is just says so much about how different you and I are because I'm like, that must be so free. Because I can't open mine because it's like, no, you'll ruin it. You're gonna ruin it, Georgia. Don't ruin everything.

• 35:35Karen Kilgariff?

  But how do you ruin the thing that's supposed to be for you?

• 35:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. No, it doesn't matter a hundred percent.

• 35:40Karen Kilgariff?

  That's what I realized. Cause you know that thing, I had, I had my friends over for game night, which is my, it was so fun. And it was the first time I'd had people over in a really long time. And it was, I kind of like felt like I had to because it had already gotten hosted a couple of those other times.

• 35:56Georgia Hardstark?

  So they're like waiting on you.

• 35:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes. Basically put up or shut up. Oh, so when I was cleaning my house, I was like, there's so much clutter and bullshit in this house that I don't need or want.

• 36:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 36:06Karen Kilgariff?

  But I have a weird connect, like I feel like I'm not allowed to throw it away.

• 36:10Georgia Hardstark?

  I get it.

• 36:10Karen Kilgariff?

  So I tried to start doing that thing of like, does it bring you joy? Put it in your hand for three seconds and then throw away anything you don't need or truly want. And when I looked at that box of things, I'm like, I want to know what every card is. So why don't I just find out?

• 36:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Do it. I love it.

• 36:24Karen Kilgariff?

  So now I have a stack this big.

• 36:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh my God.

• 36:27Karen Kilgariff?

  That I've sussed through, we've done this already. I've never heard of this. I've heard of this.

• 36:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 36:31Karen Kilgariff?

  And now I have my new stack, which is the best.

• 36:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Organized. I love it.

• 36:34Karen Kilgariff?

  That has nothing to do with the story I'm about to tell you.

• 36:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, wow.

• 36:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Because I was just sitting there going like, think of like one of the original, a moment, it doesn't have to be a whole story. And I thought about this event. So I looked it up. I'm here to tell you.

• 36:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, I'm so excited.

• 36:50Karen Kilgariff?

  All about, and tell me if you remember this.

• 36:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh my God, oh my God.

• 36:53Karen Kilgariff?

  From 2003, the Van Nuys courthouse shooting.

• 36:57Georgia Hardstark?

  No, I don't remember it.

• 36:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, girl.

• 36:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, honey.

• 37:00Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay. So when grandma was in her early twenties, this was before the internet existed. Comics used to, we used to pass around videotapes with what essentially were today YouTube videos on them. So there was, and this is things comics did all the time. So it'd be like, we're all gonna go over to so and so's house and watch, uh, so and so's tapes. Patton was the one, Patton or Blankapatch usually are the ones that had them. And they were just compilations of things you couldn't believe you were watching. So it would be like, the very first one I saw had the farting preacher on it. So it's that guy that they dubbed over farting. You know that, you've seen that video. Everyone's seen it. Then there was, there was like, um, CNN bloopers.

• 37:45Karen Kilgariff?

  When CNN first started.

• 37:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 37:47Karen Kilgariff?

  They used to fuck up on tape all the time. And there was people that would just record it and they would make like blooper reels of CNN stuff. Of like, you know, that guy Bernard Shaw was the original CNN anchor. He'd be like asleep on camera. It was awesome. There's amazing stuff. Then there was really awful things like there was a orchestra that was playing one time that the entire stage collapsed while the orchestra was playing.

• 38:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh.

• 38:12Karen Kilgariff?

  And, uh, that was on there. Just random.

• 38:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Hats.

• 38:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Awful crazy shit.

• 38:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Cool.

• 38:17Karen Kilgariff?

  So this is one of those things that went around and this is much later.

• 38:21Georgia Hardstark?

  This is like how every, like everything is terrible came about where it's like.

• 38:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Totally.

• 38:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Before that was a thing. This is what you did is you made compilations of fucking weird shit.

• 38:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. Somebody would be at home and they'd be like, what is this children's show where a weird adult is teaching yoga? I better record this because I don't understand what's happening.

• 38:38Georgia Hardstark?

  I love it. I love it.

• 38:39Karen Kilgariff?

  So this is, this was a clip that was, would have been on one of those videos and it's the craziest thing I've ever seen. So I'll just tell you, it happened on Halloween, October 30th, 30th, 2003.

• 38:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 38:54Karen Kilgariff?

  Now, if you're from the Southland, you know that Van Nuys is one of the most gorgeous cities you could visit.

• 39:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh God. So she's kidding. It's just concrete.

• 39:07Karen Kilgariff?

  It's concrete and discount furniture stores.

• 39:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally. That's exactly what it is.

• 39:11Karen Kilgariff?

  But out in the middle of all that, there is a, what, eight story, the Van Nuys courthouse. And the Van Nuys courthouse is where you go when you fucked up in your car, which everybody does in LA.

• 39:23Georgia Hardstark?

  I have been there because I fucked up in my car.

• 39:25Karen Kilgariff?

  What'd you do?

• 39:27Georgia Hardstark?

  I don't remember. I must've, I don't know.

• 39:29Karen Kilgariff?

  A moving violation?

• 39:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Probably. Yes.

• 39:31Karen Kilgariff?

  So I had to go there. I'm still mad about this. I had a friend who on fucking Ventura, which is down here. For anybody that's not from down here, Ventura is the big, basically a four lane highway that's a street.

• 39:47Georgia Hardstark?

  It's in a Tom Petty song even.

• 39:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Yep.

• 39:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Ventura Boulevard.

• 39:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Ventura Boulevard. It goes four miles through, it basically bisects or runs up the middle of the San Fernando Valley.

• 40:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 40:00Karen Kilgariff?

  And you can get on it in, uh, at the, like Hollywood where the Hollywood Bowl is essentially. And you can drive down for so long. I mean, I don't even know how far it goes. So we were on Ventura at, I think it was like Coldwater in Ventura. And it was like 10 o'clock at night and we were gonna go to a party. And my friend had just gotten a like very fancy sports car. And from a metered parking spot, she flipped a U-turn on Ventura, crossing four lanes of traffic to do this U-turn and we immediately got pulled over. And I hadn't even touched my seatbelt yet.

• 40:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh no.

• 40:42Karen Kilgariff?

  So when we got pulled over, these two, um, traffic, or these two policemen, I don't know what kind they were. But they were both young and they were hopped up in a way that scared the living shit out of me. And I was like, imagine if we were a car full of black teen boys. This would be beyond. And they were so aggressive for no reason.

• 41:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh my God.

• 41:04Karen Kilgariff?

  And they were like, I need to, he was like, this guy was tapping on the.

• 41:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Like mad at you.

• 41:09Karen Kilgariff?

  My window.

• 41:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Mad at you and it's not even.

• 41:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Roll down the window. Let me see your ID. Like coming at us. And I kept going like, I'm the passenger. I didn't, I'm not controlling the car. He's like, your seatbelt's not on. I go, we just pulled out of the parking spot. Of course I was sassing it up. I got a fucking $320 ticket for not having my seatbelt on.

• 41:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh no.

• 41:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Or some insane, and this was when I lived in a studio apartment. I mean, it was dark times. I could not afford it. And not only did I have to pay this really high number, I had to appear in court for, for this moving violation. So I wanted to murder my friend.

• 41:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. Say her name.

• 41:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Work, work through it now.

• 41:51Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 41:52Karen Kilgariff?

  So you have to go to the Van Nuys courthouse. I was so nervous to be in a courtroom. I was like dying. Well, you have to sit there for the 40 other cases before yours. So it was just like one teenage boy after another.

• 42:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Sad, fucking depressing shit.

• 42:08Karen Kilgariff?

  So depressing. Most of the teenage boys, it was for their radios, car stereos were up too loud.

• 42:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Shut up.

• 42:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, they were all like, the judge would be like, young man, this is your fifth violation. You can't drive with your stereo up this loud. There was like, that happened like 15 times.

• 42:25Georgia Hardstark?

  I mean, figure it out, Kevin. Like just turn it down a fucking decibel.

• 42:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Turn it down. I understand you're trying to make your friends think that you're a badass.

• 42:33Georgia Hardstark?

  And everyone around you, you want them to not fuck with you because you're scared.

• 42:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, we're all scared.

• 42:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Because you're scared they'll see the real you, Kevin. But let me tell you, as a fucking 37 year old who used to turn shit up, you can't hear anything when you're an adult anymore.

• 42:46Karen Kilgariff?

  The damage that I have done to my hearing.

• 42:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, yeah.

• 42:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Is amazing.

• 42:51Georgia Hardstark?

  Half my friends can't fucking hear anything because we all used to go to shows and shit. Like you just don't, it's not.

• 42:56Karen Kilgariff?

  There's no, it's not.

• 42:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Be boring.

• 42:58Karen Kilgariff?

  It's not as cool as you think. Anyway, so by the time I got up there, I basically, the judge ended up reducing the dollar amount because at one point I just went, he was, he was questioning me like I was the driver. And I finally went, I was the passenger. And then he went, really? And then he was just like $120 or something.

• 43:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God.

• 43:19Karen Kilgariff?

  Cut it down, thank God. But the entire experience was nerve jangling and infuriating. So now I've set the scene. Okay. Van Nuys courthouse. Very strange, large building, kind of ominous.

• 43:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 43:31Karen Kilgariff?

  Right?

• 43:32Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm there, I'm there with you. There's a discount furniture across the street. There's a discount furniture across the other street. There's a donut shop in the strip mall right there.

• 43:39Karen Kilgariff?

  Yep.

• 43:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Probably got great donuts.

• 43:41Karen Kilgariff?

  And that's the only thing in that strip mall, everything else is closed.

• 43:44Georgia Hardstark?

  There's also a nail salon.

• 43:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, yeah, there's, there's two nail salons next to each other.

• 43:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes, but otherwise, there's nothing.

• 43:49Karen Kilgariff?

  There's nothing. And because it's Van Nuys, it's always 91 degrees.

• 43:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God.

• 43:55Karen Kilgariff?

  Day and night.

• 43:55Georgia Hardstark?

  91 and like, and like, but in a hot way.

• 43:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 43:59Georgia Hardstark?

  A stifling way.

• 44:00Karen Kilgariff?

  A stifling yet dry way.

• 44:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Like put, and there's not one fucking tree in the entire city.

• 44:07Karen Kilgariff?

  Funny that you should say that.

• 44:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Why?

• 44:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Almost as if on cue. It's perfect setup.

• 44:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 44:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, there's no shade except for the height of this building.

• 44:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 44:16Karen Kilgariff?

  This cement building. It's dark times. So, and so at this time, because it was October 31st, 2003,

• 44:26Karen Kilgariff?

  normally it's, you're so far out there, the only people that would be at this courthouse are people that have business there. It's not, there's, you wouldn't go there for any other reason.

• 44:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Like for fun?

• 44:37Karen Kilgariff?

  There's no fun to be had.

• 44:38Georgia Hardstark?

  There's not a great restaurant in the basement, nothing, nothing good.

• 44:42Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, it's a vintage cafeteria.

• 44:43Georgia Hardstark?

  You know, like all the other courthouses, how they have nice things.

• 44:46Karen Kilgariff?

  God, there's some great food at the LA County courthouse downtown.

• 44:50Georgia Hardstark?

  However, people do go to Pasadena courthouse because it's gorgeous.

• 44:54Karen Kilgariff?

  Is that true?

• 44:55Georgia Hardstark?

  It's the one, it's the one, they use it as the courthouse in Pawnee in Parks and Recreation.

• 45:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 45:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Right? Yeah, I'm going to say yes.

• 45:04Karen Kilgariff?

  I'm, I'm going to agree with myself.

• 45:05Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm agreeing to.

• 45:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Anyway, so, yeah. It's like, I want to say vintage, but it's like pretty architectural.

• 45:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes, gorgeous.

• 45:13Karen Kilgariff?

  So, yeah, that's not happening here at the Van Nuys. Van Nuys courthouse, they were like, we want to make it tall and upsetting looking.

• 45:22Karen Kilgariff?

  And, and it was probably, they did that in 1972. Okay. At the time, on this day, remember when Robert Blake had to go to, on trial for attempting to kill, or the attempted murder, or no, sorry.

• 45:35Georgia Hardstark?

  The murder.

• 45:35Karen Kilgariff?

  The murder of his wife, Bonnie Lee Bakely.

• 45:42Karen Kilgariff?

  So this is an amazing overlap that I didn't realize until I started researching this. So for those of you who don't know, Robert Blake was an actor. He was a child actor.

• 45:54Karen Kilgariff?

  He was the Beretta. He was, you know, he was kind of like, he was almost like a serious Ted Danson of the 70s. Nothing like Ted Danson in any way. Almost the opposite, really. But that's the first television person I could think of. So he.

• 46:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, he was like Magnum P I, but like serious.

• 46:13Karen Kilgariff?

  True, yes, yeah. Didn't do a lot of comedy, though.

• 46:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 46:16Karen Kilgariff?

  I feel like Ted has better range.

• 46:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 46:19Karen Kilgariff?

  So he and his wife were eating dinner at a very famous old Italian restaurant called Vitello's, which is on Tahanga, I think.

• 46:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 46:27Karen Kilgariff?

  And Vitello's has clearly been there since the 50s.

• 46:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 46:30Karen Kilgariff?

  And he, they left the restaurant and then he said, wait here, I'm going to go back into the restaurant. I forgot my gun. And he, and Robert Blake went back into the restaurant to get his gun. And while he was in there.

• 46:43Georgia Hardstark?

  He forgot his gun?

• 46:44Karen Kilgariff?

  He forgot his gun in the Italian restaurant.

• 46:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Why does he have his gun?

• 46:47Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, because that's where the gun would be when his wife is being shot in the head out in the parking lot.

• 46:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 46:56Karen Kilgariff?

  He's not involved and his gun is in the restaurant. So that was the suspicion. And that's why he ended up going on trial. And the trial and a bunch of shit took place at the Van Nuys courthouse, which is amazing. And I didn't know that. Because they were there, there was pre-trial hearings going on because there was, there was a conspiracy charge between Robert Blake, saying Robert Blake and his bodyguard, who's named Earl, shit, I can't find it.

• 47:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Do they think he actually pulled the trigger?

• 47:27Karen Kilgariff?

  No, they think that the conspiracy was that he went in to get his gun really publicly while his bodyguard, Earl, was outside shooting Bonnie.

• 47:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, so they think that he shot Bonnie.

• 47:38Karen Kilgariff?

  The, the security guard.

• 47:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 47:40Karen Kilgariff?

  The bodyguard.

• 47:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes, okay, got it.

• 47:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, so they were at the courthouse that day to have the pre-trial hearing about this conspiracy charge. It eventually got dropped and they ended up saying, they didn't actually really have a lot of direct evidence or real material evidence. Anyhow, we'll, we'll do that story some other time.

• 48:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 48:02Karen Kilgariff?

  But because that pre-trial hearing was taking place at the Van Nuys courthouse that day, there were all these news cameras set up from all over the place, internationally set up so that when Robert Blake walked out, they would have the shot of him leaving the courthouse.

• 48:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 48:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Whatever the verdict was for that pre-trial hearing. They hadn't even gone into the full murder trial yet.

• 48:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 48:24Karen Kilgariff?

  At the same time, it was 10 a.m. that same morning. And so all these cameras are set up. And meanwhile, 53 year old, Will's and probate attorney Gerald E. Curry had just, had just appeared in court himself as a probate attorney because he was representing a client who was the trustee of a special needs trust for a 64 year old man named William Stryer. And the trustee had said that Stryer had been threatening her life.

• 49:00Karen Kilgariff?

  And so she wanted out of this trust. Stryer had been injured in a car accident and he had won settlement money for that injury. But the money was taken and put into this trust. Because, and what I'm gathering, but I don't know for a fact, but what it seems like is that he was unstable and couldn't.

• 49:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Because of the accident?

• 49:22Karen Kilgariff?

  No, it doesn't seem like it.

• 49:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Mentally unstable.

• 49:25Karen Kilgariff?

  That there's some, for some reason, he couldn't manage that money by himself. It was put into a trust and then this woman was placed in charge of the trust.

• 49:33Georgia Hardstark?

  So she had no connection, like family or otherwise with this guy? She's like?

• 49:37Karen Kilgariff?

  I'm not sure.

• 49:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 49:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Because these are the details.

• 49:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 49:40Karen Kilgariff?

  That was the case that Gerald Curry was in charge of. And she was, he was her lawyer.

• 49:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 49:47Karen Kilgariff?

  This trustee's.

• 49:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 49:49Karen Kilgariff?

  And basically the trustee was like, this guy is threatening my life. He, he keeps saying, if I don't give him the money, he's going to kill me. I don't want to be involved in this anymore.

• 49:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God.

• 49:58Karen Kilgariff?

  So that's what, why they were there at the courthouse for the hearing about that, that trustee's position.

• 50:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God.

• 50:05Karen Kilgariff?

  So he walks outside.

• 50:07Georgia Hardstark?

  I've seen, okay, now I know.

• 50:08Karen Kilgariff?

  You know what I'm talking about now?

• 50:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Because you said to Stephen earlier, keep this video handy.

• 50:12Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 50:12Georgia Hardstark?

  I've fucking seen this video.

• 50:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Now, this video.

• 50:15Georgia Hardstark?

  This kind of made me real, like happy in a weird way. Wait, maybe I'm thinking of the wrong video.

• 50:20Karen Kilgariff?

  No, no, I think you're thinking of the right video. It's so incredible.

• 50:24Georgia Hardstark?

  It's insane.

• 50:24Karen Kilgariff?

  And the idea that this happened on the day that all these cameras were already set up is beyond bizarre.

• 50:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 50:32Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 50:32Georgia Hardstark?

  Tell me.

• 50:34Karen Kilgariff?

  So Gerald Curry, the attorney, walks outside, just got that thing taken care of. It's 10 a.m., going to go get a coffee, blah, blah, blah.

• 50:42Georgia Hardstark?

  The attorney for the trustee is like.

• 50:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Yep.

• 50:45Georgia Hardstark?

  He's like, I'm going to go to that amazing cafe outside of the Van Nuys courthouse.

• 50:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Yep.

• 50:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Get me a.

• 50:50Karen Kilgariff?

  And maybe go get my nails done.

• 50:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 50:53Karen Kilgariff?

  He's standing there in the, so it's like the court, the courthouse is there. And then there's this kind of long rectangular courtyard. And that's where all the cameras are set up. And as he's standing, and it's, the courtyard has bushes and trees and things planted in it.

• 51:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 51:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Remember this part? So as he's standing there, just stepped out of the courthouse, a stranger walks up to him that he's never seen before and says, is your name Gerald Curry? Now, what is our answer if some, a stranger walks up and says, is your name Georgia Hardstark?

• 51:25Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 51:26Karen Kilgariff?

  No, it's not.

• 51:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Nope.

• 51:27Karen Kilgariff?

  I don't know that name.

• 51:28Georgia Hardstark?

  What are your, what would your intentions be if I was Georgia Hardstark?

• 51:32Karen Kilgariff?

  What, can I pass a message along to Georgia Hardstark?

• 51:34Georgia Hardstark?

  But I know her.

• 51:36Karen Kilgariff?

  Uh, I've heard of her, but it's not, it's not me. But if you want to, never fucking cop to shit if a stranger is asking you questions.

• 51:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 51:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Why do you ask would be the response?

• 51:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Why do you ask?

• 51:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Why do you ask? What's going on?

• 51:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 51:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Or even this, excuse me, goodbye. And you get the fuck away. But I'm sure that Gerald Curry was just like, I'm at a fucking courthouse. Everything's okay.

• 52:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 52:01Karen Kilgariff?

  So he says, yes, I am Gerald Curry. And this man pulls out a gun and starts shooting.

• 52:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Shit.

• 52:08Karen Kilgariff?

  Two shots are fired and all the, the news cameras are like, what the fuck is going on? Roll them. And they start recording.

• 52:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Holy shit.

• 52:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Do you want to play that video? So this is, as it happened.

• 52:33Karen Kilgariff?

  He lived. He got out of the hospital.

• 52:35Georgia Hardstark?

  I survived, fucking straight up.

• 52:36Karen Kilgariff?

  And he says, he didn't know the person, all that, he didn't even see the gun. He hears the pops. He felt blood on his face and he realized he was being shot. So in his mind, he said, "I have to be a moving target. I have to start moving." So he just starts trying to dodge the guy.

• 52:53Georgia Hardstark?

  This, this video, this dude is legit like fucking tap dancing to get the fuck away from this bullet.

• 52:59Karen Kilgariff?

  And he hides behind what is the thinnest tree in recorded history.

• 53:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 53:05Karen Kilgariff?

  It's the most upsettingly small tree. There's, there's nothing to hide behind.

• 53:09Georgia Hardstark?

  He's like doing a thing of, it's like a cartoon where it's like, "I'm hiding by this tree."

• 53:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 53:14Georgia Hardstark?

  "No, I'm not." It's this craziest.

• 53:16Karen Kilgariff?

  It's beyond. Meanwhile, the whole place in this video, when you go on to see it, there's a girl on a payphone in the background, like, "What the fuck?" Like, like 10 feet away.

• 53:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 53:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Like this, this is like all of a sudden handgun shooter. So apparently everyone that was nearby in the courtyard, the, all the cameramen start rolling. The people that were in the courtyard run around the corner. So the good news was that at the same time, LA County Sheriff's Reserve Deputy David Katz was off duty as a reserve, as a, as a sheriff's deputy. So he was at the courthouse because he was working in the traffic court.

• 53:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh my God.

• 53:57Karen Kilgariff?

  Where I, where I was.

• 53:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh my God. He's your friend.

• 54:00Karen Kilgariff?

  He was there, uh, working traffic court, but he's wearing a suit and tie and he doesn't have his gun on him.

• 54:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Shut up.

• 54:06Karen Kilgariff?

  He's totally unarmed. He only has his badge. So when the, when the shots start popping off, everybody runs like around this corner and onto the street, and he does too. Then he hears someone run up to a tow truck driver and say, "Call 911. A deputy just got shot." And then he hears that and runs back into the courtyard. Even though he doesn't have a gun and there's kind of nothing he can do, he pulls out his badge and he's like, "I have to go back in. Like, I can't, I can't run away from this." And goes back in. And as he goes back in, he, the first person that's walking by, he says, "Where is the deputy that's got shot?"

• 54:47Karen Kilgariff?

  And the person who he asks never breaks stride and doesn't turn his head to look at him and goes, "He's back there." And, and keeps walking, totally calm.

• 54:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Calm as day, yeah.

• 54:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Calm as day. Then a cameraman sees that exchange and starts yelling, "That's the shooter. That's the shooter." So basically,

• 55:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh my God.

• 55:08Karen Kilgariff?

  David Katz walked by the shooter and asked him that question. And the guy was like, as if nothing had happened, walking away from the scene. Um, and so he realizes that's his one moment and he has to get this guy. So he turns around, uh, runs and jumps and tackles him, grabs him by the neck, pulls him down. Basically, he said he tried to hit him as hard as he could because he knew that he would have to, like, this was his one chance and he knew he had at least one gun on him. So David Katz tackles him and he, it turned out he did have a second gun.

• 55:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh my God.

• 55:44Karen Kilgariff?

  He just never got, he just never used it. Um, and then once David Katz tackles him, then a bunch of other deputies had come out of the building. They're all on him. Um,

• 55:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Jesus fucking Christ.

• 55:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. And apparently one witness said that, um, when, uh, so the shooter's name was a man, is a man named William Stryer. And he was the person who, he had been injured in a car accident and he wanted the money from that trust.

• 56:16Georgia Hardstark?

  What the fuck does he think happens in life and law? That's our new show, coming this fall to ABC.

• 56:24Karen Kilgariff?

  What's happening in life and law?

• 56:26Georgia Hardstark?

  And it's just, nope, in life and law.

• 56:29Karen Kilgariff?

  In life and law, dot, dot, dot.

• 56:30Georgia Hardstark?

  And it's like a mom, she's trying, she's, it's motherboard is the working title.

• 56:36Karen Kilgariff?

  That's so I can relate to it.

• 56:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 56:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 56:38Georgia Hardstark?

  What the fuck?

• 56:39Karen Kilgariff?

  I know.

• 56:39Georgia Hardstark?

  It doesn't work like that. You're, you just proven you shouldn't have any money because you don't understand.

• 56:46Karen Kilgariff?

  And because you're going through life, if something fucks you up, you just threaten to kill it.

• 56:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally.

• 56:51Karen Kilgariff?

  That's the reason that they were in court is because he had already threatened to kill the trustee.

• 56:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 56:55Karen Kilgariff?

  And then it comes out, he, I, I never found what the actual ruling was, but I imagine it was not for him.

• 57:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Sure.

• 57:04Karen Kilgariff?

  But he knew that Gerald Curry was the lawyer that was the trustee's lawyer.

• 57:09Georgia Hardstark?

  So it has nothing to do with you and it won't even help you to punish this person because they're, they're two steps, oh, two fucking, what do they call it? Degrees away from the fucking problem we're having to become from Kevin Bacon.

• 57:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes. Well, and also he had already made the bad mistake.

• 57:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 57:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Which is you, you're not allowed to threaten people and say, "Give me my money or I'll kill you." So that you now disqualified yourself from the money, but you want it to be someone else's fault.

• 57:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 57:38Karen Kilgariff?

  That you don't have that money.

• 57:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 57:39Karen Kilgariff?

  So you've decided that this lawyer is keeping you from the money.

• 57:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 57:43Karen Kilgariff?

  And apparently a witness said that he heard Stryer say, when the shooting was done, he shot at him six times. Um, and Stryer was hit four of those six times.

• 57:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh my God.

• 57:56Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, I'm sorry, uh, Gerald Curry was hit for those six times.

• 57:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 57:59Karen Kilgariff?

  But then, once the shooting was over, before he calmly walked away, a witness said he heard him say, "That's what you get for stealing my money."

• 58:07Georgia Hardstark?

  So he, in his fucking mind, he thinks that these people are all trying to steal his money.

• 58:12Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes. So at the trial, William Stryer appears in court laying on a hospital gurney because of his, claiming it's because of his longstanding back injury.

• 58:26Karen Kilgariff?

  So he's in, in bed, in, in court, in bed, which is a dream I've had. Do you ever have that thing where you're in a dream, you, you like wake up and you're like, "I'm at school, but I'm also in bed."

• 58:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, like you're the weird one in bed. Suddenly not, it's not like the naked dream, but it's like the, you didn't get the memo that we're, you're supposed to be out of bed right now.

• 58:46Karen Kilgariff?

  You're supposed to get out of bed.

• 58:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 58:48Karen Kilgariff?

  So then you're trying to play it off and just kind of be like,

• 58:50Georgia Hardstark?

  "I'm not in bed."

• 58:52Karen Kilgariff?

  No, it's fine. I'm just in bed a little bit in public.

• 58:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. No, I've actually had that. Or like, I've had the like, way, starting to wake up and you think there are people there and be like, "No, I'm not in bed. I'm not sleeping."

• 59:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Right.

• 59:03Karen Kilgariff?

  That makes me think a couple of my in-bed dreams have been in, being on people's front lawns in bed. Where I think it's because when I first moved to LA, it was so weird to me that people lived so close together. That, and so many people live so close together that that idea of like,

• 59:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Like we're basically on each other's fucking lawns.

• 59:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 59:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, or in each other's.

• 59:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Like, and I'm just gonna sleep here. I'm just gonna be out here. I don't know. Anyway. Okay. Basically his lawyer, so the shooter, William Stryer's lawyers say, he needed immediate access to that trust fund because he needed a back operation so badly. But he was being barred by the trustee and that's why he was so upset. And then he also was on Demerol, which is an incredibly strong painkiller.

• 59:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 59:50Karen Kilgariff?

  What I remember of friends being on Demerol.

• 59:53Georgia Hardstark?

  It's like Vicodin style?

• 59:55Karen Kilgariff?

  Uh, yeah, but I think it's, it's bigger. I think it's like goes into the OxyContin direction.

• 1:00:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Opiate style shit.

• 1:00:01Karen Kilgariff?

  I think so. So they were kind of using that. Um, they, and the judge, who was named Judge Rubin, um, noted that Stryer had shot a neighbor four times in 1969.

• 1:00:15Georgia Hardstark?

  What?

• 1:00:16Karen Kilgariff?

  In 1969, he got into it with a neighbor, shot his neighbor four times, for which he served 90 days and got two years probation. So this is the way this, this guy dealt with everything in his life.

• 1:00:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:30Karen Kilgariff?

  And the first time around on that, the, the way that all got pled down, the judge, this time around was like, "You tried to use that, I'm on pills.

• 1:00:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:41Karen Kilgariff?

  There's something wrong with me thing before and they fell for it last time. It's not happening this time."

• 1:00:45Georgia Hardstark?

  And it's like, dude, you think we wouldn't have checked that? Come on.

• 1:00:48Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, exactly. You, you got a bit of a history.

• 1:00:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:51Karen Kilgariff?

  That's, that, that's gonna stick with you. William Stryer asked the judge if he could address the court. And then,

• 1:00:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Did he get out of bed to do it?

• 1:00:59Karen Kilgariff?

  No, he's still in bed.

• 1:01:00Georgia Hardstark?

  He just like sits up in bed and he's like,

• 1:01:02Karen Kilgariff?

  He's like, "Ahem," he adjusts his pajamas. He goes to address the court, but he starts to veer off track and he starts to say, it's the cameraman's fault that they didn't stop him from shooting at Gerald Curry. Yeah. So he starts trying to blame the cameraman who were standing around. And that's when the judge was like, no, no, you're not doing this anymore. Not only do you not get to make this statement to the court, now you're not allowed to be in this room. You have to go put your bed in the hallway and you have to listen through.

• 1:01:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God.

• 1:01:34Karen Kilgariff?

  You have to listen to the remainder of the proceedings through a speaker. So he got sent from bed out of the courtroom.

• 1:01:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. Go, go to your bed. Yeah. It's like, take your bed to the.

• 1:01:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Just roll that motherfucker out into the hallway. You don't even get to, we're not even going to look at you anymore. Cause also that, it's so funny. My sister was in, she got hit by a guy who was shitfaced at eight in the morning.

• 1:01:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, God.

• 1:01:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. She had really bad back problems and this guy pulled shit like that. He showed up one day in court with his daughter on it, like carrying his daughter on his hip.

• 1:02:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Saying what?

• 1:02:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Like, oh, sorry. I just, I didn't have babysitting. It's like people doing all these plays to get empathy and sympathy and like to get people on their side.

• 1:02:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:19Karen Kilgariff?

  She won. That's the good news.

• 1:02:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 1:02:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Judge Rubin was basically all over this shit and he was like, the deputy district attorney, um, basically was like, William Schreier tried to execute Mr. Curry. He had no remorse. He never accepted responsibility. He was still making excuses by the time he was in the courtroom.

• 1:02:40Georgia Hardstark?

  And blaming it on other people not stopping him.

• 1:02:43Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 1:02:44Georgia Hardstark?

  That's bananas.

• 1:02:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes. It's insanity. And also when you see this video, like, cause that is something maybe that would go through someone's mind of like, why did they hit, why did they roll record on their video instead of doing something? But it's somebody with a gun.

• 1:02:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. I, I get it. I get doing both.

• 1:03:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 1:03:02Georgia Hardstark?

  You know?

• 1:03:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, also, but who would really, it's a gun.

• 1:03:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. You're not going to run up to this guy and fucking tackle him.

• 1:03:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Unarmed. And even a sheriff's deputy was like, no, you had to take cover. If you don't have any way to fight it.

• 1:03:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:16Karen Kilgariff?

  It doesn't make a ton of sense to be like, no, I'm going to go take care of this.

• 1:03:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 1:03:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Um, and they, those cameramen who recorded that then also were the ones that were like, he's right there. Like they were all over it. Anyway, that was who, that's bullshit anyway. But basically William Schreier was convicted of attempted murder. And in 2006, he was sentenced to life in prison plus 25 years. And he ended up dying in prison.

• 1:03:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow.

• 1:03:40Karen Kilgariff?

  Cause he was already, he was 63 when he did this. Gerald Curry went to that sentencing and he told reporters, my main concern is my safety and my family's safety. Um, and so he said he felt satisfied with the fact that, the fact that he knew William Schreier was going to prison and he would be in prison because he was so old already for the rest of his life. He was like, that's all I care about and that's fine. Unfortunately, the shooting left a bullet lodged in the back of his neck. And he had a really bad PTSD after it happened. Jerry, Gerald Curry died in 2012, um, which is very sad.

• 1:04:22Karen Kilgariff?

  David Katz, the sheriff's deputy, got a medal of valor for, um, going back into that fray and tackling him. And he went on to work as a reserve deputy, deputy for, in charge of search and rescue unit for the LA sheriff's department. And that is the story, the very fascinating and horrifying story of the Van Nuys courthouse shooting.

• 1:04:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Dude.

• 1:04:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Isn't that nuts?

• 1:04:48Georgia Hardstark?

  That's nuts. And the fact that it's on video is so bananas.

• 1:04:51Karen Kilgariff?

  It's so crazy.

• 1:04:52Georgia Hardstark?

  It's like a time, yeah, when you didn't see that shit.

• 1:04:56Karen Kilgariff?

  No, I remember us, whoever put in the video, uh, I remember David Cross was there. Like I rem, it was, it was, uh, early nineties or no, it couldn't have been early nineties, but it was like early LA.

• 1:05:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Time of my life. And we were standing, watching the video, like holy shit. It was so crazy. And it was almost like Joe Curry was defying logic by, yes, he, it didn't even look like he was getting shot.

• 1:05:26Georgia Hardstark?

  It didn't look like he was getting shot.

• 1:05:27Karen Kilgariff?

  It looked like he was avoiding these shots, but the, they, the gunshots just kept coming.

• 1:05:32Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:32Karen Kilgariff?

  It was horrifying.

• 1:05:33Georgia Hardstark?

  And like, what a scary situation to be in that this is happening and so far you've made it and you're fucking dodging these bullets, but keep going like, oh, like what, what, it's terrifying.

• 1:05:44Karen Kilgariff?

  It's so crazy.

• 1:05:45Georgia Hardstark?

  I mean, as someone with anxiety, I'm like constantly waiting for someone to just start shooting at me whenever I'm in fucking public.

• 1:05:54Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:54Georgia Hardstark?

  And so to see, so I think what I meant when I said that this made me feel better is to see something that happened to someone and he dodged and he was okay.

• 1:06:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Right.

• 1:06:04Georgia Hardstark?

  So like, it was like this thing of, all right, it might happen, but maybe IQ could also be okay.

• 1:06:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. That's, that's, that was crazy.

• 1:06:12Georgia Hardstark?

  That's a crazy fun story. It's awful as well. Thank you for telling me.

• 1:06:16Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 1:06:17Georgia Hardstark?

  I totally forgot that I remembered that.

• 1:06:19Karen Kilgariff?

  That's from my new segment, remember this horrible thing? That had a tiny piece of video attached to it?

• 1:06:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Hey, remember this?

• 1:06:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:30Georgia Hardstark?

  All right. We're back here. And any updates?

• 1:06:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Unfortunately, there's no updates because I wish we could talk about this case for the rest of our lives.

• 1:06:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:39Karen Kilgariff?

  What a wild thing to kind of witness on the local news.

• 1:06:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally.

• 1:06:43Karen Kilgariff?

  Unhinged. And that was just like the beginning of unhinged behavior in this country.

• 1:06:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. Like 2003 is when it happened, right? It's like, oh, you don't know what, this is going to be like a blip on the news.

• 1:06:58Karen Kilgariff?

  This is nothing.

• 1:06:59Georgia Hardstark?

  This is nothing. It like, but it seems like such a big story.

• 1:07:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. It's.

• 1:07:05Georgia Hardstark?

  I mean, it is a big story, but it's like.

• 1:07:06Karen Kilgariff?

  It was. It was the craziest story.

• 1:07:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:09Karen Kilgariff?

  But, but it's just so sad in this country that we have been forced to accept this state of the state with gun violence in this country.

• 1:07:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, since there's no updates, let's just move it along. We're going to get into Georgia's story about Juana Barraza and La Mata Vieja.

• 1:07:32Speaker 01

  911, what's your emergency?

• 1:07:36Speaker 01

  Please help us. They're everywhere. We think they're murder warrants. 911 Nashville returns. What's a homicide detective doing here? Three bodies on the ground. With emergencies of biblical proportions.

• 1:07:48Speaker 03

  Oh, since swarms upon you and upon your people. That's one of the plagues in the Bible. And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville.

• 1:07:55Speaker 01

  Brian Phillippe joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC. Next day on Hulu.

• 1:08:02Speaker 00

  Whether you're buying, renting or selling, Zillow can help make your someday today. To help find a home that fits where you are in life or that apartment that's a little closer to where you want to be. Zillow has the right information, tools and support to help turn your future home into a reality because someday starts today. Visit zillow.com/today to get started.

• 1:08:27Speaker 04

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• 1:08:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Are you ready? All right. I want to get this right.

• 1:08:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 1:08:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Uh, this is important. I'm about to tell you about, uh, El Mata Vieja, AKA The Old Lady Killer.

• 1:09:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, shit.

• 1:09:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 1:09:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Fucking buckle the fuck in. All right.

• 1:09:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Hell up.

• 1:09:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Hey, the capital of Mexico, Mexico City is.

• 1:09:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Mexico City.

• 1:09:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Have you heard? Yes. You're so good at geography.

• 1:09:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Ding ding.

• 1:09:26Georgia Hardstark?

  You got it. Did you know it's the third, the world's third most populous city according to this Wikipedia that I, I hope it's up to date.

• 1:09:35Karen Kilgariff?

  From 1974.

• 1:09:38Georgia Hardstark?

  It's, uh, okay. So it's estimated that 1 million of its residents are over 60 years old.

• 1:09:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Whoa.

• 1:09:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. So in 1998, when brutal murders of elderly women began to start popping up in Mexico City, the press starts to speculate that there's a serial killer and they dubbed the serial killer El Mata Vaharis. But police are like, no, no, no, you guys are fucking freaking out. Calm down. This is media sensationalism. It's just that elderly women keep getting killed.

• 1:10:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:11Georgia Hardstark?

  But it's not a serial killer.

• 1:10:12Karen Kilgariff?

  Trying to link them together.

• 1:10:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. Calm down. It's not a serial killer. But Mexico has no shortage of serial killers. Gregorio Cardenas Hernandez was known as the strangler of Tacuba. And he became a celebrity in Mexico after he was caught murdering four young women and burying them in his backyard. This is in the 40s.

• 1:10:36Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 1:10:37Georgia Hardstark?

  There was even a fucking porn based on his crimes.

• 1:10:40Karen Kilgariff?

  Jesus.

• 1:10:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. So he was like a celebrity. He was in prison for 30 years, but in 1976, he was pardoned and celebrated as a hero because he had like changed his life. He'd like fucking play the piano in prison, learn to play the fucking piano. So they were like, no, he's changed. You know what I mean?

• 1:10:58Karen Kilgariff?

  The piano's nice though.

• 1:10:59Georgia Hardstark?

  I mean, no one who plays the piano can be a bad person, right?

• 1:11:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Fucking heart and soul. Get a little, get a couple of rounds of heart and soul going.

• 1:11:07Georgia Hardstark?

  What if that's all he learned how to play?

• 1:11:09Karen Kilgariff?

  It's not that hard.

• 1:11:10Georgia Hardstark?

  It's not. And they're like, he's reformed.

• 1:11:15Karen Kilgariff?

  It's like, please stop doing that.

• 1:11:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh God. Um, there's also the sisters, Delfina and Maria de Jesus Gonzalez, known as La Poconichis.

• 1:11:28Karen Kilgariff?

  The Little Poconichis.

• 1:11:32Georgia Hardstark?

  Poke, yeah, that sounds about right. Uh, from the 1950s until the 1960s, they're the, the women, older women, they're sisters. They run a, a large scale prostitution ring.

• 1:11:43Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 1:11:44Georgia Hardstark?

  And they murdered at least 91 people, these two fucking middle aged women.

• 1:11:50Karen Kilgariff?

  What for?

• 1:11:51Georgia Hardstark?

  Because they, whenever one of their sex workers that they had kidnapped and forced into sex working wasn't, couldn't do it anymore. They would kill them. They would kill, if like a John came who had money on him, they would kill, like these chicks were fucking bananas. Their Guinness World Record called them the most prolific murder partnership.

• 1:12:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:12:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. And actually one of, they both went to prison, one died there and the other one served her time and got out. And no one ever tracked her down after that.

• 1:12:19Karen Kilgariff?

  Are you serious?

• 1:12:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. So I'm gonna need the fucking, this is not media sensationalism. This, this might be a serial killer, right?

• 1:12:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 1:12:28Georgia Hardstark?

  All right.

• 1:12:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Can I just say this really quickly as you were telling that story? I started to think about my favorite, one of my favorite things in the world to observe or listen to is, and it happens a lot in LA because there's lots of people who are bilingual or probably raised in like a multi-language households. Don't you love it when you're standing by two people? It's, for some reason, it's always teenage girls in my mind. And they're speaking Spanish to each other because I think they're trying to tell like private stuff or secrets. But then they'll just say.

• 1:13:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Interchangeably with English?

• 1:13:03Karen Kilgariff?

  They'll just blow, they'll say an English word perfectly, like almost Valley Girl accent.

• 1:13:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:08Karen Kilgariff?

  So it's like, and a thing that you don't know or understand, and then it'll be like the car wash.

• 1:13:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Aren't I right?

• 1:13:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, exactly. There's phrases in it. It's like, it's my favorite LA thing.

• 1:13:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:20Karen Kilgariff?

  And I'm also a very bad eavesdropper.

• 1:13:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Or a very good eavesdropper.

• 1:13:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Or the best eavesdropper.

• 1:13:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Or listening to people at car washes all the time.

• 1:13:28Karen Kilgariff?

  I wish I could speak fluent in a different language. And then that, like the idea that you can do that and just flip back and forth, like, well, now I have to say something private. And I know that this person over here is probably listening, so.

• 1:13:42Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm like, I'm deeply embarrassed as someone from Southern California, born and raised, that I don't know Spanish. Like it, it feels like I'm being fucking elitist and rude.

• 1:13:55Karen Kilgariff?

  It's kind of rude.

• 1:13:56Georgia Hardstark?

  It is.

• 1:13:56Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, also.

• 1:13:57Georgia Hardstark?

  It's, yeah. It's, it'd be easy for me to learn.

• 1:14:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Right. Well, my sister and my dad went to the JC and took a Spanish class together.

• 1:14:07Georgia Hardstark?

  That's cool.

• 1:14:08Karen Kilgariff?

  I know. I love that. But I wish I, I wish I did it too. And also, um, I wish I hadn't taken French. It just served me.

• 1:14:16Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm sorry.

• 1:14:17Karen Kilgariff?

  It's like, I think a couple of menus, it's helped me.

• 1:14:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Couple fancy dinners and pretty much that's it.

• 1:14:25Georgia Hardstark?

  That's about it. And my fucking sister-in-law is Mexican in El Salvadorian. So my nephew is part of that as well. And the fact that, you know, he can't talk to his aunt in one of his fucking languages.

• 1:14:35Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:35Georgia Hardstark?

  It just makes me feel shitty.

• 1:14:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Let's go to, uh, Los Angeles Community College.

• 1:14:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Done.

• 1:14:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Right down there on, like on Melrose and like Western.

• 1:14:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:45Karen Kilgariff?

  There's a community college right there.

• 1:14:47Georgia Hardstark?

  I went there out of high school.

• 1:14:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Did you really?

• 1:14:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:50Karen Kilgariff?

  You didn't take any Spanish?

• 1:14:52Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 1:14:52Karen Kilgariff?

  Let's do that.

• 1:14:53Georgia Hardstark?

  I would love that.

• 1:14:54Karen Kilgariff?

  It'd be super fun.

• 1:14:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Or can we get sponsored by, what's that?

• 1:14:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Rosetta Stone?

• 1:14:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Rosetta Stone.

• 1:15:00Karen Kilgariff?

  Come on.

• 1:15:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Let's have it.

• 1:15:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Our minds are open.

• 1:15:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes.

• 1:15:04Karen Kilgariff?

  We want to learn.

• 1:15:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Please, teach us. Okay. Boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop. Okay. Okay. So back to fucking El, uh, Mata Vaharis.

• 1:15:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 1:15:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Mata.

• 1:15:15Karen Kilgariff?

  I feel like you're.

• 1:15:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Vahidis.

• 1:15:16Karen Kilgariff?

  You got the, you got the accent?

• 1:15:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Mata Vahidis. Yeah. I think that's right. Yeah. Right? I'm ready.

• 1:15:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. I think you're ready.

• 1:15:22Georgia Hardstark?

  It's like, I know a little Yiddish. I can fucking turn that into something else.

• 1:15:26Karen Kilgariff?

  You got the ear.

• 1:15:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Listen.

• 1:15:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Once, they say, once you have Yiddish, Spanish comes immediately afterwards. That's what they say.

• 1:15:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Great.

• 1:15:36Karen Kilgariff?

  At Los Angeles Community College.

• 1:15:38Georgia Hardstark?

  That's their motto.

• 1:15:39Karen Kilgariff?

  Once you have Yiddish, the world is your oyster.

• 1:15:42Georgia Hardstark?

  The world opens up to you.

• 1:15:46Karen Kilgariff?

  That's really the baseline. It's kind of the, it's the Latin.

• 1:15:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Uh, but for.

• 1:15:51Georgia Hardstark?

  Yelling, yelling at your grandkid, your granddaughter, Georgia, in Yiddish is the Latin.

• 1:15:57Karen Kilgariff?

  Don't schwitz all over my Chesterfield, right? Grandma stuff.

• 1:16:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Why am I sweating on her Chesterfield? It's like our furniture, right?

• 1:16:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Why is sweating on?

• 1:16:06Karen Kilgariff?

  I took what I thought your grandma would say and then added something my grandma used to say would be like, get off the Chesterfield. Cause she, for some reason, said it's saying couch or sofa.

• 1:16:14Georgia Hardstark?

  But you know me well enough that I am constantly sweating, which is fucking true about me to know that I'm not.

• 1:16:19Karen Kilgariff?

  Schwitzing is the only Yiddish word I have like on hand.

• 1:16:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 1:16:23Karen Kilgariff?

  So that was not personal.

• 1:16:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Royskamotter is one of my favorite.

• 1:16:26Karen Kilgariff?

  What's that?

• 1:16:26Georgia Hardstark?

  It's just bothering, like touching and going through, my mom would say, uh, don't Roy, don't Royskamotter the cats.

• 1:16:34Karen Kilgariff?

  Royskamotter?

• 1:16:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Uh huh.

• 1:16:35Karen Kilgariff?

  Wow.

• 1:16:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Don't Royskamotter the cats. Like, don't fuck with the cats. Don't fuck with the cats. Cats are doing that. You know, it's like, leave them alone. Do not Royskamotter the cats. Yeah. Okay.

• 1:16:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Here's what I learned, uh, in Gaelic.

• 1:16:51Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, let's hear it.

• 1:16:52Karen Kilgariff?

  Can you give me more whiskey, please? I want to punch someone. Is, uh, I'm saying it with a really strong accent right now, but.

• 1:17:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Um, it's good. I'm gonna repeat that to you later.

• 1:17:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:05Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm gonna try it when we're in, uh.

• 1:17:07Karen Kilgariff?

  When we're in Dublin.

• 1:17:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Dublin. I'm gonna try to, I'm gonna use it.

• 1:17:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Use it. And you give me more whiskey, please.

• 1:17:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes.

• 1:17:12Karen Kilgariff?

  I have rage issues.

• 1:17:13Georgia Hardstark?

  I feel like I want to punch someone.

• 1:17:15Karen Kilgariff?

  I feel like I want to punch someone.

• 1:17:16Georgia Hardstark?

  It'll help me.

• 1:17:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:18Georgia Hardstark?

  And then.

• 1:17:19Karen Kilgariff?

  But I'm still gonna punch someone.

• 1:17:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay. I'm gonna try it.

• 1:17:21Georgia Hardstark?

  And then, but before you get the third word out, they're gonna be like, we got you. Don't worry. Oh, I know what you're talking about.

• 1:17:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Ooh, we're gonna have fun there. Okay.

• 1:17:29Georgia Hardstark?

  All right. So back there in the early 2000s, uh, so authorities said that the murders of the old women aren't connected and aren't to work at the serial killer, but there's a fucking clear pattern to the murders. All the victims are women in their 60s or older. And they're found in their own homes, all of them, either bludgeoned or strangled and afterwards are robbed. There was never any sign of forced, forced entry and most of them lived alone. And so you, I went online and did a lot of research because there's not a lot of English stories about this, stories about this in English. But I found a website that has unexpectedly every single fucking crime scene photo with the bodies in them.

• 1:18:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 1:18:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Just one of those like surprise. And then I start scrolling and it's like all of them.

• 1:18:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Whoa.

• 1:18:21Georgia Hardstark?

  And it's really hard and it's, so it's essentially like your abuela, it's like abuela, abuela. Every fucking grandma, like Mexican grandma you've ever seen with her like house of her, like with her newspaper from the morning and her shopping and her, you know, she just crosses everywhere. It's like every Mexican grandmother. It's so horrible. Like you think you get to live a life of like comfortable dresses with pockets. And like, you know, feeding your grandkids too much sugar. And it's like, that's the women. That's who it is. And it's really fucking sad. And I had to, after a few scrolls, had to.

• 1:18:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Stop doing that.

• 1:19:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Stop looking at it.

• 1:19:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, don't. Yeah, that's the worst.

• 1:19:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. It was really depressing. Okay. So the chief prosecutor in Mexico City, uh, profiles the killer. It's Bernardo Batiz. Saying that they, that he has a brilliant mind. He's quite clever and careful. It was thought that whoever was doing it was taking the time to gain the trust of their intended victims because there's no forced entry. So one theory is that the person might be posing as a government official, providing them like an opportunity to sign up for welfare programs at the door. And they like, the, the sweet abuelas invite them in. Years drag on, bodies pile, like there's just many murders of these older women. And authorities, uh, have all these different theories, but they really don't know what's going on.

• 1:19:49Georgia Hardstark?

  They said that there might be multiple killers. Uh, they find that there, one really weird detail is that three of the victims owned a copy of an obscure 18th century painting. Jean Batiste Grazu's boy in a, uh, red waistcoat.

• 1:20:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 1:20:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Which turns out to be a red herring. It just might be a fucking, that abuelas love that fucking painting.

• 1:20:12Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. So it's like some, it was like the thing that was for sale in the market or whatever that they're like, oh, that's pretty.

• 1:20:18Georgia Hardstark?

  So it just turns out that like, that, but that's how, that's how little they have to go on is they're like, what's a connection? Well, they all had this painting.

• 1:20:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 1:20:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Is that the connection? Like who sold, you know, they don't know.

• 1:20:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Somebody that hates waistcoats.

• 1:20:31Georgia Hardstark?

  I mean, who among us? Boop, boop, boop, boop. Okay. So just to show how desperate they are, uh, the killings would start and stop again, or stop and start again even.

• 1:20:41Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, the both directions.

• 1:20:43Georgia Hardstark?

  They would go all over the place. They would stop, you know? Um, no information surfaced. Okay. The killing of 82 year old Carmen Camila Gonzalez Miguel on September 28th, 2005. She's an upper class woman and she's the mother of prominent Mexican criminologist Luis Rafael, Rafael Morano Gonzalez. So that finally, police are like, all right, now we'll fucking pay attention to this and let's, let's get this going. So they start the operation of Parks and Gardens to like, try to find this person. So officers patrol the areas where the killer was active and pamphlets are passed out telling, you know, the elderly women, what did I say?

• 1:21:25Karen Kilgariff?

  It sounded wrong?

• 1:21:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Pamphlets? I did. That was just like, one of my nostrils closing as I said it. I didn't pamphlets.

• 1:21:33Karen Kilgariff?

  I thought it was a Spanish word that I had just never heard of before.

• 1:21:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Pamphlets.

• 1:21:37Karen Kilgariff?

  They, they, when they hand out all the pamphlets.

• 1:21:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Pamplitas?

• 1:21:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:21:42Karen Kilgariff?

  Uh, even was that a dirty word?

• 1:21:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, okay. Pamphlets. You've heard of them. You love, you love them.

• 1:21:51Karen Kilgariff?

  You know them.

• 1:21:52Georgia Hardstark?

  You love pamphlets.

• 1:21:53Karen Kilgariff?

  I love a nice pamphlet.

• 1:21:54Georgia Hardstark?

  One thing about you, we know.

• 1:21:55Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh my God, if it's glossy in color, give it.

• 1:21:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Come on.

• 1:21:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Come on.

• 1:21:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Um, they tell them, telling them to be wary of strangers. So sketches are distributed and they like, uh, they even pay elderly women to act as bait in parks.

• 1:22:10Karen Kilgariff?

  What?

• 1:22:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Like fucking undercover elderly women hanging out being like, who's gonna come murder, maybe murder you. And they're like, we'll promise we'll stop them before they can murder you.

• 1:22:20Karen Kilgariff?

  But please tell me they weren't genuinely elderly, that they were dressed up as, really?

• 1:22:24Georgia Hardstark?

  That's what this said. They even paid elderly women to act as bait in park areas.

• 1:22:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Shit.

• 1:22:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:31Karen Kilgariff?

  Wow.

• 1:22:31Georgia Hardstark?

  I know.

• 1:22:32Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, that's kind of a good living, cause if nothing happens, you're like, well, thanks for my 30 bucks.

• 1:22:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. And they're also like, well, they kill them at home. So like, the park is the safest fucking place to be right now.

• 1:22:41Karen Kilgariff?

  They were actually scamming the cops. They were just like, yeah, this sounds like a great project.

• 1:22:45Georgia Hardstark?

  No, I bet you'll catch them for sure.

• 1:22:47Karen Kilgariff?

  But uh, you gotta pay me $50.

• 1:22:48Georgia Hardstark?

  I swear, I saw someone weird yesterday. Maybe, well, today is the day.

• 1:22:52Karen Kilgariff?

  Definitely in this park and not at home.

• 1:22:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Um, I need money to buy my waistcoat, boy. Okay. Boop, boop, boop. Da, da, da, da. Okay. So a witness reported seeing a lar, soon after, um, one of the murders, a witness reported seeing a large woman in a red blouse leaving the home of a murdered woman.

• 1:23:12Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 1:23:13Georgia Hardstark?

  So police start to speculate that the killer could be wearing female clothing as a ploy, uh, you know, and cross dressing. And so the authorities launched a massive roundup of Mexico City's transvestite population. Guess how that goes?

• 1:23:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Badly.

• 1:23:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Badly. Guess how the transvestites are treated in Mexico City?

• 1:23:32Karen Kilgariff?

  Horribly.

• 1:23:32Georgia Hardstark?

  Horribly. So, um, ultimately 49 of Mexico City's transvestite sex workers are detained and questioned and fucking hassled. They suffer through humiliating investigations before being released when their prints didn't match any collected from the crime scene. Two months later, police, they're just, don't know what the fuck's going on. They think maybe that person died. So they start checking fucking, uh, fingerprints at the morgue.

• 1:23:59Karen Kilgariff?

  What?

• 1:23:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Just because they think he committed, they got like a word, word that he committed suicide. Uh, they like, make this insane bust of the, like a clay bust of the person's face. Stephen, maybe you can find it actually.

• 1:24:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Ooh, like best, based on sketches?

• 1:24:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 1:24:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Of like, who he is. Um, then in January 2006, the landlord of 82 year old Ana Maria De Lo Reyes Alfaro comes home and finds someone fleeing, the landlord finds someone fleeing this woman's home.

• 1:24:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 1:24:31Georgia Hardstark?

  He goes and checks on his tenant and he finds Ana Maria dead on the floor and he calls police, gives a detailed description of the attacker. Police get to the scene fucking immediately and they are able to track down the person who's fleeing. It turns out that El Matavaharis is La Matavaharis.

• 1:24:52Karen Kilgariff?

  That means girl.

• 1:24:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Dun, dun, dun.

• 1:24:54Karen Kilgariff?

  Boom.

• 1:24:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes. Killer's actually fuck, is a woman. Little old lady killer is a fucking woman.

• 1:25:00Karen Kilgariff?

  Whoa.

• 1:25:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. Twist. Aru. Uh, Juana Barraza is 48 and she's a single mother of four. She had close cropped, tight, like real short dyed blonde hair, mole on her face and she looks exactly like this bust. There's like photos online of her standing next to the bust and it's creepy as fuck.

• 1:25:23Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, they nailed that. The nose is a little off.

• 1:25:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes. Uh, she looks like the, the killer based on witness accounts, but she's not a man. She's just a masculine woman. And they catch her as she's leaving her last victim's house. She's carrying a stethoscope, uh, pension forms and carrying and identify, a card identifying her as a social worker.

• 1:25:42Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, fuck.

• 1:25:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. So her MO would be that she would knock on the door, smile, introduce herself as a social worker, show her stethoscope. And then once she was in the, uh, the fucking abuelas are like, come on in, you know, like, it's like, come in. That's.

• 1:25:58Karen Kilgariff?

  It's a lady doctor here to like, help you out.

• 1:26:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Help you. Uh, once inside though, there was little conversation. She would strangle her eviction, her victim usually with the stethoscope.

• 1:26:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Whoa.

• 1:26:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Or some kind of cloth that was already there and/or stab her. Um, she then ransacked the house and, uh, when they raid, when they raided Juana Barraza's house, they discovered her trophy room where she had arranged newspaper clippings about the murders, also had objects stolen from the victims and had a shrine to Jesus Malverde and Santa Muerte, who were, I said that wrong. Listen, I'm Jewish. Don't, I can't.

• 1:26:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Santa Muerte?

• 1:26:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Muerte?

• 1:26:39Karen Kilgariff?

  Muerte, it sounds like murder, death, right?

• 1:26:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Santa Muerte.

• 1:26:43Karen Kilgariff?

  Saint murder.

• 1:26:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Two folk, deities often worship by Mexican outlaws.

• 1:26:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, fuck.

• 1:26:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, I got the Santa part right.

• 1:26:51Georgia Hardstark?

  Good job.

• 1:26:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Thank you.

• 1:26:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Uh, like, okay, here's, this gets bummer time. Uh, like many serial killers, Juana Barraza had endured a horrific childhood. This one's particularly shitty.

• 1:27:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Really?

• 1:27:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:27:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, it's something had to have happened for a woman to be a legit, straightforward serial killer. Not Eileen Wuornos, like, uh, I, you know, my life has gone astray and I'm living on the, on the verge or whatever, but like.

• 1:27:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Shooting a man and stealing his money.

• 1:27:22Karen Kilgariff?

  And then being like, oh, this is a good way to make easy money or whatever. Like, the idea that she was so classical, like straightforward serial killer.

• 1:27:31Georgia Hardstark?

  And like, she was ransacking their house and stealing shit. So you could, the argument could be that.

• 1:27:37Karen Kilgariff?

  She's a sociopath that wants money.

• 1:27:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. But, but wait.

• 1:27:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 1:27:41Georgia Hardstark?

  All right. So she's born in 1957 in, um, Hidalgo, a rural area of Mexico. Her mother's a fucking crazy alcoholic. She's verbally and physically abusive and often trades her daughter to her drinking buddies for alcohol.

• 1:27:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Ugh.

• 1:28:00Georgia Hardstark?

  There's no way to like, fucking not say that. So when she's 12 years old, Juana's mom trades her permanently to her drinking buddy, a 62 year old man for three beers.

• 1:28:12Karen Kilgariff?

  Ew.

• 1:28:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Like basically sends her off with this dude.

• 1:28:17Karen Kilgariff?

  This is like Mary Bell.

• 1:28:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:19Karen Kilgariff?

  This is how merit, that would happen to Mary Bell when she was little.

• 1:28:21Georgia Hardstark?

  It's just so disgusting and horrifying.

• 1:28:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Dark, dark, dark.

• 1:28:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Dark, dark.

• 1:28:27Georgia Hardstark?

  So Juana, uh, later gives birth to a son. Um, and she has four children total. Although, and this is another trigger for her, her oldest son died from injuries sustained in a mugging. He was mugged and he died from that.

• 1:28:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, no.

• 1:28:45Georgia Hardstark?

  I know. Um, so she eventually gets away. She's a single mother in Mexico City and she had always been obsessed with lucha libre, which is the, the crazy popular.

• 1:28:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Fucking, okay, I just am putting this together.

• 1:29:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Are you? Do you know, have you heard of this?

• 1:29:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes. Because people have told me the very shortened version of this in like, um, in the VIP lines. And it's the most fascinating thing. Okay, sorry, go ahead.

• 1:29:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. So she was obsessed with fucking Mexican masked professional wrestling. And she, as an older woman was like, fuck it, I'm fucking joining. I want to do this. And so she calls herself La Dama de la Silencio. No, La Dama de Silencio. The lady of.

• 1:29:32Karen Kilgariff?

  The lady of silence?

• 1:29:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Uh-huh.

• 1:29:34Karen Kilgariff?

  Come on.

• 1:29:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Lady of silence. She wears a butterfly mask and hot pink spandex and she could bench press over 200 pounds.

• 1:29:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, fuck.

• 1:29:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. Like, let's fight.

• 1:29:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:45Georgia Hardstark?

  So she's really.

• 1:29:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Let's fight.

• 1:29:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Let's fight. She's really into Mexican masked wrestling. So again, yeah, it's fucking crazy.

• 1:29:52Karen Kilgariff?

  Yep.

• 1:29:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Wrestle, professional wrestling and murder. Look over on that side of the podcast wall, there's wrestling.

• 1:29:59Karen Kilgariff?

  This is the hard, stark, April dream case.

• 1:30:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. That we both are bummed about.

• 1:30:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:06Georgia Hardstark?

  So by the time she starts murdering older women, her own mother was already dead, but she is surprisingly, by all accounts, a good mother. Um, she lived at home with her two youngest kids, a boy who's 13 and a girl who's 11, supports the family through a mix of domestic work, street vending and petty theft. But she's apparently a good mom and like, kind to her children, you know, from what I can read.

• 1:30:32Karen Kilgariff?

  A glimmer of something positive.

• 1:30:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. So using fingerprint evidence, Mexico City prosecutors are able to link, uh, Juana Barraza to at least 10 of the murders attributed, like, period. So the only 10. And she says, when she gets caught, I only killed the one little old lady, the one that she was caught for, not the others. Don't pin the others on me. And they were like, what's your motive? And she said, I got angry. That's all she said. She's like, it's just the one I killed.

• 1:31:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 1:31:03Georgia Hardstark?

  But 10 of them, based on fingerprints, are attributed to her. And ultimately, she's connected to as many as 40 killings.

• 1:31:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Whoa.

• 1:31:14Georgia Hardstark?

  So she killed, possibly killed 40 little old ladies.

• 1:31:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 1:31:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Just kept doing it from the late 90s to when she was caught in 2006. The first victim she's directly attributed to, that we're 100% sure she did, is on November 25, 2002, when she barehanded, beat and strangled a 64-year-old woman named Marie De La Luz Gonzalez.

• 1:31:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Wow.

• 1:31:38Georgia Hardstark?

  So she could have killed way more than that. At this point, she goes to trial, she's 50 years old, little old lady killer goes on trial. In 2008, the evidence

• 1:31:51Georgia Hardstark?

  said that she would cruise public places in search of elderly women on their own. She'd follow them home. She'd gain their trust, access to their home, to help with their shopping bags or whatever, or request cleaning, like, I need a job cleaning your house, or whatever. And then, or she would pretend to be a nurse or a social worker, offering a free checkup or information about benefits.

• 1:32:13Karen Kilgariff?

  God.

• 1:32:13Georgia Hardstark?

  I know. It's fucking dark. She's found guilty on 16 charges of murder and aggravated burglary. She's sentenced to 759 years in prison.

• 1:32:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Whoa.

• 1:32:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Just a couple.

• 1:32:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:28Georgia Hardstark?

  She ends up like getting married in prison, but then divorces, and she seems to be kind of happy there.

• 1:32:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Wow.

• 1:32:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. And she's only admitted to, ever admitted to the last killing, and she says the motive was the lingering resentment to her own mother's horrible treatment of her. But everyone thinks that she targeted old women as a way to get back at her fucking crazy, awful, alcoholic mother.

• 1:32:52Karen Kilgariff?

  That makes sense.

• 1:32:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. And so got some kind of satisfaction out of killing these fucking poor women.

• 1:32:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Who, but there is an element, like, and I can't remember what one it is specifically, but the not copping to it.

• 1:33:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Like going, oh, I only did that one, when it's proven that you've done the other ones, where you kind of, it's that thing that always happens to us where we're talking, when you get into the details of a serial killer's life.

• 1:33:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:17Karen Kilgariff?

  It changes it, because then you're like, oh, you never had a chance. It's so sad, or whatever. But then, yes, you did have a chance. Like, that, that, it was just that terrible combination of like, whatever was already wrong with you.

• 1:33:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Bad upbringing or whatever. But, you know, 40 old ladies, like, how are you killing an old lady?

• 1:33:37Georgia Hardstark?

  I know. I wonder if there's this part of you, when you don't admit, like, there's so many people that don't admit it, even though the facts are clear, and it drives me fucking crazy. And I just want you to say you did it, and cop to it. It's easy, do it. But I wonder if there's this part, like with her, where it's like, I don't want to admit that I'm, that I have those, that I have that in me. Yes, I can be a good mother, and I can pursue my passion of fucking lucha libre, but also, I am someone who's so dysfunctional that I murder old women. Like, you don't even want to admit it to yourself.

• 1:34:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, exactly. Like, she's, because there's parts of her life, if she was a good mother, truly, then she isn't a sociopath.

• 1:34:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 1:34:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Which means then she's doing this thing.

• 1:34:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Or that even, like, she doesn't want to admit that her horrible mother affected her so much that caught, like, then that means your mom is still part of you.

• 1:34:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 1:34:30Georgia Hardstark?

  And you want to say, I'm over it. I fixed it by being a good mother. But no, you're still doing this thing.

• 1:34:36Karen Kilgariff?

  And you're having a reaction that you're not just like your mother for being that way. Now you're worse than your mother.

• 1:34:43Georgia Hardstark?

  You're fucking worse. I mean, yeah.

• 1:34:44Karen Kilgariff?

  You're worse than her.

• 1:34:45Georgia Hardstark?

  It's so sad. And like, there's so many, I know, like, the grandma culture is so, you know, as someone who had a culture that the grandma was a huge part of your life, and it's, I just can't imagine having to have that with the rest of your life, that your grandmother was killed in that awful way.

• 1:35:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Horrible.

• 1:35:04Georgia Hardstark?

  It's so sad.

• 1:35:05Karen Kilgariff?

  It just made me think, too, of in Mindhunter. But remember, there was that killer in Sacramento who's doing the exact same thing. He was attacking old ladies, like, on their front porch.

• 1:35:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:15Karen Kilgariff?

  And in that, they're so upset, like, the cops are so upset by the crime, that, that when they try to get there to say, hey, maybe it's, there's this reason or whatever, then they're like, it's just a monster. Like, they can't see, because it's a thing that's like, culturally, we've, you're, no matter what level of asshole you are, you're not going to be an asshole to an old lady.

• 1:35:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:38Karen Kilgariff?

  You know what I mean? It's like, it takes, it means you're beyond a certain point.

• 1:35:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. What we need to realize is that there are people who are always going to be way more horrible than we can ever imagine. That there are going to be people who.

• 1:35:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Who are picking the most vulnerable people on purpose.

• 1:35:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:54Karen Kilgariff?

  Which is just like, oh, that's so crazy. And then the wrestling element, too, is just like, this lady.

• 1:36:01Georgia Hardstark?

  And it's not even like, it's just like, the fucking media in Mexico City, in Mexico, blew the fuck up and loves this story and went crazy about it. And the truth is, like, she wasn't that big in lucha libre. She just kind of did it a little bit, but she was really into it. And there are photos of her, and there's like an interview with her at, like, one of the matches. And she seems like a lovely, normal woman. It's so creepy.

• 1:36:24Karen Kilgariff?

  It's crazy.

• 1:36:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. And also, women never, I mean, the percentage is like 1%, right? Yeah. Like, even if she maybe only killed those 10 people, that a woman fucking killed 10 women.

• 1:36:36Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes. And not poisoning, not the usual way.

• 1:36:39Georgia Hardstark?

  And not with a gun. It's like a personal fucking attack of a strange, a stranger that you don't know.

• 1:36:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 1:36:47Georgia Hardstark?

  I mean, there's some deep-seated fucking psychological shit going on there. Oh, Stephen, oh, there's a, I think on Instagram, Stephen's been posting.

• 1:36:55Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, shit. She has a butterfly mask, you guys, and a butterfly belt.

• 1:36:59Georgia Hardstark?

  And how fucking neon pink is that shit?

• 1:37:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Her wearing a butterfly mask seems especially sinister.

• 1:37:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Uh huh.

• 1:37:07Karen Kilgariff?

  Like, some kind of like, because she's, she is a butterfly. She's gone from, you know, whatever her actual life is, to like, now she's this secret identity masked wrestler. And she's blooming and coming into her own.

• 1:37:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Fucking, in her chrysalis and shit, right?

• 1:37:24Karen Kilgariff?

  I don't know. But then there's also, like, some amazing gold tiger stripes here. Like, I can't take my eyes off this picture.

• 1:37:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Go to Instagram, Stephen will post it. My favorite murder.

• 1:37:34Karen Kilgariff?

  It's.

• 1:37:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Let me take this time to fucking plug our fucking social media.

• 1:37:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Good idea.

• 1:37:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Great. I sound like a great person.

• 1:37:40Karen Kilgariff?

  That's how we transition out of the darkest.

• 1:37:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. That was the El Madre de Horas, AKA The Old Lady Killer.

• 1:37:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Awesome.

• 1:37:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:48Karen Kilgariff?

  God, that's dark.

• 1:37:49Georgia Hardstark?

  I know.

• 1:37:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Also, just, if you lived in a city where old ladies were getting killed.

• 1:37:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally.

• 1:37:54Karen Kilgariff?

  How, like, sinister. You'd just be like, it's the devil.

• 1:37:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. You're like, at least find someone young.

• 1:38:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Please. Someone young and irritating.

• 1:38:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God. It's one of those people with the, the young websites and stuff.

• 1:38:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes. Like a hacker.

• 1:38:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Like a hacker.

• 1:38:12Karen Kilgariff?

  A young, loudmouth hacker.

• 1:38:14Georgia Hardstark?

  With a computer at the fucking cafe.

• 1:38:17Karen Kilgariff?

  What do you, if you built this computer yourself, why would you transport it down to the cafe?

• 1:38:21Georgia Hardstark?

  You get one outlet for two hours, tops.

• 1:38:25Karen Kilgariff?

  And you can't bring power strips?

• 1:38:27Georgia Hardstark?

  No power strips.

• 1:38:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Not fair.

• 1:38:29Georgia Hardstark?

  100% no, unless you're going to let me use it. But you're not. You're using all of them in the whole, oh.

• 1:38:34Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. You're setting up your printer. What are you doing?

• 1:38:37Georgia Hardstark?

  What is happening? You know, someone's going to take a photo of you. Okay. Let's end it with not depressing things.

• 1:38:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Um, I really like that story. And I also like the idea that maybe we can set a short-term goal of, like, within the next five years, we can become moderately conversational in Spanish.

• 1:38:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 1:38:59Karen Kilgariff?

  And Stephen, so that's a half decade. Stephen can.

• 1:39:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, you're moderately in math or whatever.

• 1:39:07Karen Kilgariff?

  Stephen can check it.

• 1:39:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Uh huh.

• 1:39:09Karen Kilgariff?

  And then we can eventually build to be like the girls that we hear, having private conversations publicly.

• 1:39:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:16Karen Kilgariff?

  And then throwing in a, like, Lucky Charms.

• 1:39:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Great.

• 1:39:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Or whatever, though.

• 1:39:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. We'll just talk about cereal all the time.

• 1:39:23Karen Kilgariff?

  Only.

• 1:39:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Car washes.

• 1:39:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Serial gossip.

• 1:39:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, we're back. Are there updates for this story?

• 1:39:32Georgia Hardstark?

  So first of all, I just want to say that in the next episode, I have a corrections corner about the fact that I use the term transvestite in this story when I meant transgender. So I address that. I take full responsibility. In 2023, a documentary called The Lady of Silence, The Old Lady Killer Case, aired on Netflix, and it was nominated for Best Documentary at the Ariel Awards, which is like the Oscars, but it's put on by the Mexican Academy of Film Arts and Sciences. So that's really cool. You guys, go check that one out, The Lady of Silence.

• 1:40:06Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, it's no surprise that there's been a documentary. This is a scripted show, if there ever was one.

• 1:40:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, yeah. And the story's just so horrific. And the way she would trick them, yes.

• 1:40:16Karen Kilgariff?

  The most evil.

• 1:40:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally.

• 1:40:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, well then, to counteract that, let's get into the good things of the week.

• 1:40:29Speaker 03

  We help us. They're everywhere. We think they're murder warnings.

• 1:40:35Speaker 01

  911 Nashville returns.

• 1:40:37Speaker 03

  It's a homicide detective down here. Three bodies on the ground.

• 1:40:40Speaker 01

  With emergencies of biblical proportions.

• 1:40:43Speaker 03

  Oh, since swarms upon you and upon your people. That's one of the plagues of the Bible. And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville.

• 1:40:50Speaker 01

  Brian Phillippe joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 1:40:57Speaker 00

  Whether you're buying, renting, or selling, Zillow can help make your someday today. To help find a home that fits where you are in life, or that apartment that's a little closer to where you want to be. Zillow has the right information, tools, and support to help turn your future home into a reality. Because someday starts today. Visit zillow.com/today to get started.

• 1:41:22Speaker 04

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• 1:41:54Karen Kilgariff?

  All right, do you have a thing that you like for this week?

• 1:41:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, I have a thing I want to shout out. Because it makes me feel not horrible.

• 1:42:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, that's key.

• 1:42:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Go.

• 1:42:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Are we calling this thing? I think we're still calling it like the good thing of the week.

• 1:42:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Not catchy.

• 1:42:10Georgia Hardstark?

  No, it's not. This doesn't suck. This isn't, hey, this isn't murder corner. No.

• 1:42:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Also not catchy.

• 1:42:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Happy.

• 1:42:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Happy by the performer Pharrell.

• 1:42:24Karen Kilgariff?

  That takes too long.

• 1:42:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, well, this one is, so a bunch of murderinos got together. It was hosted by, I think, a woman named Sarah Norman, who's a murderino, is the person who put this together. But it's a murderino run. So just put the word run in murderer run. You know what I mean? Like, R U N.

• 1:42:42Karen Kilgariff?

  A murder runner.

• 1:42:43Georgia Hardstark?

  And they did a, like, virtual 5K, which means like, you have to say you're gonna run a 5K.

• 1:42:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 1:42:51Georgia Hardstark?

  You know, no one's there to check your work, but like,

• 1:42:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Do it.

• 1:42:54Georgia Hardstark?

  But do it. Don't be an asshole. And everyone would raise money for the 5K. And they raised, they all did it, all these fucking murder runos. They raised over $3,000 for the Joyful Heart Foundation, which is a foundation who, whose effort is to end the backlog of untested rape kits in the US.

• 1:43:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Wow.

• 1:43:16Georgia Hardstark?

  So $3,200.

• 1:43:18Karen Kilgariff?

  That's amazing.

• 1:43:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, and they went for runs.

• 1:43:21Karen Kilgariff?

  That's, all of that is wonderful.

• 1:43:23Georgia Hardstark?

  I mean, it just is such a cool, a cool organization that I'm.

• 1:43:27Karen Kilgariff?

  The subgroup, murderino subgroups are pretty incredible.

• 1:43:32Georgia Hardstark?

  It's really intense.

• 1:43:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Did you, somebody at a meet and greet told us that there's one called the complainarinos, where they just go on and they just get to complain. And, and everybody goes, yep, you're right. And they're, you can log on and just say something that you're mad about or don't like. And the idea of that makes me laugh so hard of like, just a safe space to go complain, get it off your chest, and then go back to your life.

• 1:43:55Georgia Hardstark?

  I feel like this podcast is that a little bit.

• 1:43:58Karen Kilgariff?

  That's we're doing that. Definitely at each other.

• 1:44:02Georgia Hardstark?

  I love it. Well, it's just, yeah, it's, it's nice.

• 1:44:05Karen Kilgariff?

  It's so good.

• 1:44:06Georgia Hardstark?

  What's yours?

• 1:44:07Karen Kilgariff?

  I guess, I guess I would say, I feel like mine are always Netflix based, but.

• 1:44:13Georgia Hardstark?

  We gotta give those recommendations.

• 1:44:15Karen Kilgariff?

  I got, look, I gotta lay on the couch indefinitely, avoiding the rest of my life.

• 1:44:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Definitely.

• 1:44:22Karen Kilgariff?

  I started watching The Mind of a Chef. And it is, Anthony Bourdain is the narrator, but it's about this chef, David Chang, who is the, he has the restaurant Momofuko. Momofuko. Is it Fuku?

• 1:44:41Georgia Hardstark?

  No, you said it right.

• 1:44:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay. I mean, it's a noodle place in New York, or maybe other stuff too.

• 1:44:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:49Karen Kilgariff?

  And it's just a really good, it's a cooking show. Or, or like, it's one of those kind of, you know, how chefs live and what they're, what they like or whatever. But then he also, like, shows you how to make things.

• 1:45:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, cool.

• 1:45:02Karen Kilgariff?

  In a very natural and not like, slow way and not, he just kind of talks you through it as he's making it.

• 1:45:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:09Karen Kilgariff?

  In a way that makes me go, I bet I could make that. And there's one part we were talking about. Learn to make chicken soup. It's the easiest thing in the world. Then you can give it to someone you love when they're sick. It's learn to do it. There's no reason you shouldn't learn.

• 1:45:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:24Karen Kilgariff?

  It was just a super enjoyable show, but it's been out for a while. And it's that same guy is the one who now has the series Ugly Delicious.

• 1:45:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, right.

• 1:45:32Karen Kilgariff?

  That's his series.

• 1:45:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 1:45:34Karen Kilgariff?

  Which is, is basically a continuation. It feels to me like a continuation of that old episode.

• 1:45:38Georgia Hardstark?

  And so just making you happy in between this fucking Golden State Killer shit.

• 1:45:43Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, exactly.

• 1:45:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Food shows are the best, man.

• 1:45:46Karen Kilgariff?

  They really are. And it's that thing of, I don't, I'm not interested in making it.

• 1:45:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:49Karen Kilgariff?

  I love to watch, I feel like maybe it's because chefs are so different than me.

• 1:45:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:54Karen Kilgariff?

  Like, I, nothing about that appeals to me of like, the work it takes.

• 1:45:58Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 1:45:59Karen Kilgariff?

  The organization, the fucking.

• 1:46:01Georgia Hardstark?

  They're like chemists.

• 1:46:02Karen Kilgariff?

  So rigid, your schedule and your life and everything you do. And the timing of, it's so easy to fuck it up. Like, it makes me want to quit just thinking about how hard it would be to make a dinner like that.

• 1:46:13Georgia Hardstark?

  And then at the end of the day, it's, you have to serve it to a fucking bunch of plebes who might not fucking like it or want to put more salt on it or whatever.

• 1:46:19Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, exactly. Or they might just be there to criticize it. So like, any little, like, they're so, all they're about is excellence. On just constant excellence.

• 1:46:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes.

• 1:46:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Really impressive.

• 1:46:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:30Karen Kilgariff?

  But then, like, so then when you're watching a show like this, and then in their personality, they're kind of cool and chill.

• 1:46:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Then you're like, oh, you're the most fascinating person ever.

• 1:46:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Well, Anthony Bourdain is like, just the crush. He's just like a crush-filled husband.

• 1:46:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:46Georgia Hardstark?

  You're just like, why are you so cool?

• 1:46:48Karen Kilgariff?

  Why are they so cool?

• 1:46:49Georgia Hardstark?

  I don't know.

• 1:46:50Karen Kilgariff?

  It's like they've taken, like, they've taken it being obsessive and made it work.

• 1:46:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:57Karen Kilgariff?

  Made it, make them popular.

• 1:46:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:00Karen Kilgariff?

  And also good food.

• 1:47:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:03Karen Kilgariff?

  I don't know, I really liked it.

• 1:47:04Georgia Hardstark?

  I like that. That's cool. That's a good, like, that's a good, like, when you're, when you need a minute of something beautiful and good and happy.

• 1:47:12Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 1:47:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Food's so happy.

• 1:47:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Food's really happy. It's a celebration. And it's also like, yeah, watching him eat a thing. There's a part where they were like in Japan. And he was trying, they were at this, you know, world famous sushi bar or whatever. And he's trying these things. And Chef David Chang is trying these things. And he loves it so much. The food he's being served is made so perfectly and simply that he's like having a nervous breakdown because he's like, I could never do this. And it's the most fun thing to watch. One person who's excellent at something worship someone who's really excellent at something. It's just like that whole world, it's just a world I don't understand.

• 1:47:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:54Karen Kilgariff?

  That I love to watch.

• 1:47:55Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm there with you.

• 1:47:57Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Let's do it.

• 1:47:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:00Karen Kilgariff?

  Let's go out to dinner more.

• 1:48:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes, let's go to dinner.

• 1:48:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Every night.

• 1:48:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Every night.

• 1:48:04Karen Kilgariff?

  And don't forget to watch Nancy Silverton's episode of The Chef's Table, who is a famous LA restaurateur and chef.

• 1:48:13Georgia Hardstark?

  She's fucking awesome.

• 1:48:15Karen Kilgariff?

  It's just an amazing, like, her dedication. And the reason her restaurant, Mozza, is so insane is because she cares about every single item.

• 1:48:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, I've met her. She's fucking cool too.

• 1:48:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Really?

• 1:48:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:28Karen Kilgariff?

  She seems super cool.

• 1:48:29Georgia Hardstark?

  She's just like, just a cool lady.

• 1:48:31Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:32Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:32Karen Kilgariff?

  Love it.

• 1:48:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, we're back.

• 1:48:38Karen Kilgariff?

  We are back. Okay, so this episode was originally entitled, Figure It Out, Kevin. But if we're naming it today, there's so many wonderful choices that we could use, including Melissa Your Life.

• 1:48:53Georgia Hardstark?

  But can we please call it Last White Right Now? Like, that is so funny of you calling yourself that.

• 1:49:00Karen Kilgariff?

  No, that was pretty good. Also buckle the fucking, which is your shorthand buckle the fuck up. Pretty great. Or buckle up.

• 1:49:09Georgia Hardstark?

  But also big bog hole. Never forget.

• 1:49:12Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, there's, there's some serious choices in here.

• 1:49:14Georgia Hardstark?

  There are.

• 1:49:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Listen for the choices, you know, audience. When you're listening to these episodes, every once in a while, you'll hear one of the phrases that'll gling out to you, like, that's sparkly shiny. And you'll be like, aha.

• 1:49:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. And you'll never get into our heads about why we picked the one we picked. Because you're like, that one was the obvious one. It's like, wow, but we didn't pick that.

• 1:49:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Because it's all subjective.

• 1:49:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Exactly.

• 1:49:35Karen Kilgariff?

  It's what's your special, special title?

• 1:49:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. You're subjective too. Thanks for listening subjectively to this podcast.

• 1:49:42Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right. That's this week's episode of the rewind.

• 1:49:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Let's say goodbye from 2018.

• 1:49:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Thanks for listening, you guys. Tell us stuff, you know, let us know how you are.

• 1:49:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:49:56Karen Kilgariff?

  And.

• 1:49:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Stephen loves to read your emails, so write them in. Communicate with us. We like it.

• 1:50:02Karen Kilgariff?

  MikeFavreMurder@gmail. And that's it. Thanks for listening.

• 1:50:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, stay sexy.

• 1:50:06Karen Kilgariff?

  And don't get murdered.

• 1:50:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Goodbye.

• 1:50:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Elvis, want cookie? Oh.

• 1:50:16Georgia Hardstark?

  That sounds like a frog.

• 1:50:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Calling all amateur detectives and podcast obsessives.

• 1:50:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Virgin Voyages' second True Crime Voyage sets sail March 20th, 2027 for a five-night escape to Grand Turk and the beach club at Bimini.

• 1:50:30Karen Kilgariff?

  As part of the On Air at Sea collection, this immersive sailing brings together fan favorite podcasts, including Disgrace Land, Buried Bones, and Wise Crack for live recordings, behind-the-scenes access, exclusive meet and greets, and crime-themed programming that you won't find anywhere else.

• 1:50:46Georgia Hardstark?

  All aboard our award-winning, kid-free ships.

• 1:50:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Head over to virginvoyages.com/truecrime to secure your spot. Goodbye.

• 1:50:55Speaker 00

  Okay, laundry stinks, literally. I mean, you could just keep buying new underwear. Not that I've ever done that. Or maybe sort your clothes into piles based on how re-wearable or filthy they are. Or just use Arm & Hammer Deep Clean. It's made for real life stinks and stains. So even if you don't do laundry the quote, "right way", Deep Clean will knock it out. I mean, it is from the number one liquid detergent brand that tackles more loads than any other. Come clean with Arm & Hammer Deep Clean. Number one claim based on total wash loads sold.

• 1:51:31Georgia Hardstark?

  What does Drew Barrymore reach for at home? A Minky Couture blanket. The ultra-soft throw that stops you mid-sentence. Featured on her show and loved in real life, Minky Couture wraps you in premium plush fabric, signature stretch, and award-winning craftsmanship. The blanket that turns every couch into your favorite seat in the house. Drew Barrymore's blanket, only at Minky Couture. Shop now at minkycouture.com. That's Minky, M-I-N-K-Y, couture, C-O-U-T-U-R-E, dot com.