The Case for Ozempic, Weed’s Risks, and Big Pharma Conspiracies | Mike Israetel

🚀 Main Street Over Wall Street is where the real deals get done. Join top investors, founders, and operators for three days of powerful connection, sharp strategy, and big opportunities — live in Austin, Nov 2–4. https://contrarianthinking.biz/msows-bigdeal Record your first video with Riverside - https://creators.riverside.fm/Codie - and use code CODIE for 15% off an individual plan. Codie Sanchez and Dr. Mike Israetel delve into the complexities of health, fitness, and obesity. They explore the societal and genetic factors contributing to the obesity epidemic, the role of convenience foods, and the impact of medications like Ozempic on appetite and weight management. The discussion also touches on personal responsibility in dietary choices and the cultural perceptions of body image and attraction. This conversation delves into various themes surrounding self-defense for women, the effects of alcohol and cannabis on health, the future of fitness through drugs and genetic enhancements, and the ethical considerations of pharmaceutical companies. The discussion highlights the importance of understanding personal safety, moderation in alcohol consumption, the complexities of cannabis use, and the potential for future advancements in health and fitness through scientific innovations. In this conversation, the speaker delves into various themes surrounding the pharmaceutical industry, corporate responsibility, and the importance of long-term thinking in business. They discuss the competitive nature of the pharmaceutical sector, the alignment of incentives within corporations, and the impact of regulatory environments on economic outcomes. The conversation also touches on the purpose of corporations, teamwork, and the significance of a cooperative mindset in achieving success. Hope you guys enjoy! Want help scaling your business to $1M in monthly revenue? ⁠Click here⁠ to connect with my consulting team. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Health and Fitness Paradigms 01:26 The Obesity Epidemic: Causes and Consequences 08:28 The Role of Convenience Foods in Modern Diets 11:49 The Impact of Medications on Appetite and Obesity 19:01 The Genetic Factors Influencing Food Drive 25:11 Personal Responsibility and Corporate Influence on Diet 33:59 Cultural Perceptions of Body Image and Attraction 39:45 The Dynamics of Violence and Self-Defense for Women 43:38 Understanding Alcohol: Moderation and Health Effects 48:49 The Complexities of Cannabis: Addiction and Health Risks 52:43 The Future of Fitness: Drugs and Genetic Enhancements 01:15:01 The Ethics of Pharmaceutical Companies and Health Innovations 01:19:24 The Pharmaceutical Industry and Global Competition 01:22:12 Incentive Alignment and Corporate Responsibility 01:25:30 Regulatory Environments and Economic Literacy 01:27:50 Corporate Purpose and Long-Term Value 01:30:41 Teamwork and Internal Alignment 01:36:19 The Renaissance of Fitness and Science 01:39:08 Philosophy and Mental Health in Youth 01:55:46 Conclusion and Call to Action MORE FROM BIGDEAL: 🎥 ⁠YouTube⁠ 📸 ⁠Instagram⁠ 📽️ ⁠TikTok⁠ MORE FROM CODIE SANCHEZ: 🎥 ⁠YouTube⁠ 📸 ⁠Instagram⁠ 📽️ ⁠TikTok⁠ OTHER THINGS WE DO: 🫂 ⁠Our community⁠ 📰 ⁠Free newsletter⁠ 🏦 ⁠Biz buying course⁠ 🏠 ⁠Resibrands⁠ 💰 ⁠CT Capital⁠ 🏙️ ⁠Main St Hold Co⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Codie Sanchez?

  Hey, I'm Codie Sanchez and welcome to the Big Deal Podcast. I wanted to be shredded while not working out that much and still eating like a non-psychopath, AKA not counting calories and living on a scale and eating chicken breast like it's the last animal on the planet. So I looked around for who to talk to about that. And arguably, the biggest name on YouTube and the internet right now is Dr. Mike Israetel Tell. He is an exercise scientist, PhD, hysterically funny dude, bizarrely jacked, and also very hairy. Mike is going to talk to us about the science of getting fit, healthy, getting skinny with a bunch of things that are really going to surprise you. From drugs that maybe we'll have a stance that you've never heard before, to what lies

• 0:44Codie Sanchez?

  were we told about physical health and hotness? And also, he built a company, RP Strength, super interesting company and a multi-multi-million person audience by truth-talking? And despite his very large brain, which you'll agree that it is large after you listen to him for the next hour, also with a sense of humor and a way for us to take ideas that maybe seem overwhelming, like health, fitness, making money, building businesses, what's happening in the world, but in a very simple way. So without further ado, I want to get right into the conversation with Mike. I think you guys are really going to like this one. I learned a lot. Why are we so fat these days in America? What happened to us?

• 1:24Speaker 01

  Well, you see, the corporations and the government, they're not enough lizard people, Illuminati, five-dimensional aliens. You see how they come from a totally... See?

• 1:37Codie Sanchez?

  Makes sense.

• 1:37Speaker 01

  Obesity.

• 1:39Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah.

• 1:39Speaker 01

  That's it.

• 1:40Codie Sanchez?

  That's it. That's what we're taught.

• 1:41Speaker 01

  It's tough. It's complicated. The 5D stuff really throws a whole loop. On a serious note, it's actually, we are learning nowadays that the increasing amount of obesity around the world now is probably down to just like mostly one thing, which is curious. And when I tell you this one thing, you might have a similar reaction to many other people here, where they're like, "Nah." Ah, yeah. So here it is.

• 2:13Speaker 01

  Over time, specifically after roughly the 1950s and moving up in an exponentially increasing curve, what you could call the price palatability of food has skyrocketed. You can also use accessibility, palatability, convenience, palatability. What does that mean? A bunch of science terms. I don't know. And that's all I had memorized. I'm really nervous and I have no idea where I am. So basically, for how much it costs, for how easy this to access, for how little time you need to spend working to get it in both at work for your job, they give you money, you go buy food, and for like, I have to make food or get food now, how long is it going to take me to get the food I want?

• 2:56Speaker 01

  Is it going to be like, I have to slave over a hot stove for two hours? Or is it going to be like, I just drive over to the, what do you guys have here in Austin? As a grocery store?

• 3:04Codie Sanchez?

  Oh, Buc-E's is the favorite one?

• 3:06Speaker 01

  Buc-E's.

• 3:06Codie Sanchez?

  The gas station?

• 3:07Speaker 01

  Oh, the gas, well, I'm not going to the gas station to get your dinner. My God. I knew it was a low-class podcast. You know, I'll have my butlers see me out. But, um, so yeah, perfect example. Buc-E's is a quintessential example. Uh, I drive over to Buc-E's, it's two minutes away. And for what functionally for the average income in the United States amounts to almost no money, you can buy an inordinate amount of high-calorie food that is the most convenient and the most tasty by a long shot that has ever been. So we are swimming in an environment where incredibly convenient, incredibly cheap,

• 3:43Speaker 01

  incredibly easy to access, super wide variety, insanely amazingly tasting food is almost ubiquitarily available to all of us, or almost everyone. And people really, I know this is going to sound crazy, people really love to eat super tasty food, and most people care about the calorie density of that food and long-term what it's doing to their body is only to some nominal amount. Like if someone's like, hey, like, what do you think about the Ukraine-Russia situation? You'd be like, it's terrible. War is terrible. They're like, what are you doing about? Specifically, you're like, I taxes go to NATO and NATO would make sure that Russia doesn't do anything else bad.

• 4:28Speaker 01

  Maybe something like that. So when you catch people at a Thai restaurant or catch people grub hubbing Thai food on their phone after a long day of work. You're not going to be like, hey, like, what really peanut sauce? And they're like, it's delicious. And you're like, but it goes straight to here. And they're like, yeah, yeah, no, for sure. But I'll do fitness or something. And it turns out that the amount of calories you can pack on is that through tasty, super tasty food is like, what? But the amount of exercise and physical activity and resistance training, everything you'd have to do to quote unquote, burn that off. I mean, gee whiz, it's really hard to do. If you think about like, you go to McDonald's, get a regular meal.

• 5:09Speaker 01

  Combo meal or whatever, which like, uh, over a thousand calories, a thousand to fifteen hundred calories sort of minimum. The amount of exercise extra per day or physical activity takes to burn twelve hundred and fifty calories. I mean, we're talking about running, like jogging for, for real, for real, with your eighties headband and your tunes, a Walkman perhaps to make it dated.

• 5:30Speaker 01

  Hours, like five hours of a running. Nobody doing that. And so basically, human beings have a set of wants, and you know this from the business world. The supply and demand is such a beautiful concept because it distills down to so much about what we do. Humans demand in the sense of have money and able and willing to pay for very super tasty food. And super tasty food, you just kind of want to eat it all the time. And everyone really has that pull to some extent. And so what we can tell is the biggest factor of who's getting super obese and who's not.

• 6:10Speaker 01

  Is probably just people's genetically determined, largely genetically determined baseline hunger signaling and food pleasure response. Do you have friends that are like, they'll eat, like, they'll, you'll go to sushi with them and they're like, oh my God, I'm starving. And you're like, okay, sushi. You get sushi, they have like a roll and a half and they're like, oh, that's it. And you're like, what? I could be here all day. They would have to get the police to kick me out. If you're like, I can drink the oil. The whole thing. Some of us just like food a lot more than others. And that is the primary cause. Now, back in the 1920s, let's say you liked food a lot. What are you going to do about it? Nothing. You're going to go to the nickel and dime store, get a can of beans? You don't like, just keep eating beans. So there's that concept of palatability. Here, here's the thing. So.

• 6:54Codie Sanchez?

  If you can't tell by me starting a podcast, I love talking to friends about how they made their millions, helping business owners and normal humans solve their problems. Fulfilling. And I love sharing these on the internet because then you and I, we learn together. And hopefully it helps you. But when I can't meet in person, there's one tool I use Riverside. So Riverside ensures I can talk to someone anywhere in the world and record it in 4K resolution. So the video quality matches the quality of the people. Riverside records separate audio and video tracks, so we can easily cut out those awkward interruptions that I know are not my favorite part of interviews. But if you're not into the detail to editing, Riverside's still got you covered. They have in-platform editing software that gets this,

• 7:34Codie Sanchez?

  edits based off a 99% accurate AI transcription. And if that's not simple enough, they take AI one step further with their show notes that summarizes your content into an SEO optimized description and chapters all automatic. So you can use Riverside for podcast interviews, panel discussions, presentations, webinars, and more. And best of all, it's simple because I don't have time for complex. I love technology and I got you guys a deal. Try Riverside for yourself with the link in description and use the code CODI for an exclusive discount.

• 8:04Speaker 01

  Food corporations, anyone who sells you food, it can be the local hipster mom and pop diner, retro place in Austin, all the way up to like PepsiCo. They know that if they make their foods tastier, and they know that if they make their foods tastier in such a way that you just want to keep eating more, like, that's what you want. That's what seems to make you happy. They're just going to do that. So back before a lot of processed foods were made, and not even processed, just really well-prepared foods, convenience foods. Nowadays, you go to like Costco or Sam's Club, and there's like that rotisserie chicken. It's already done. It's amazing. It's like $5. I don't even understand the price economics of that. How do they afford that? Must be cross-subsidized or something. Right. But. That is not even processed food.

• 8:49Speaker 01

  It's technically whole food, but it's so delicious and it's so convenient. Back in the twenties, thirties, forties, if you wanted to really gorge yourself on amazing fun foods, you have to have like an Italian grandmother or several in your home preparing food. And you know, like all those videos about how food prep used to happen. Hours, hours to make lasagna or to make a, any kind of special dinner. Nowadays, it's minutes. And in order to have a really, really good food in the 1930s, you'd have to be living pretty large. Poor people, middle income people, they had to kind of subsist on food that was annoying to make. But if you wanted it convenient, it was just not going to taste really good.

• 9:27Speaker 01

  Imagine taking a completely unflavored cut of not so great steak and some like just buckwheat that you boiled and put that together and eat up. Like, how much really is anyone going to get? Just do people overeat that? And the answer is some small fraction of people whose food drive genetically is just outrageous will actually overeat that, which is why we still saw obesity in the twenties and thirties in America. Very small fractions. Now, as over time, the ease, convenience, cost per work hour that you put into your life and taste of food all go that way. Uh, more and more people, regular food drive people start to fall under the curve of like, yeah, you're going to want to eat the stuff all the time, cheetos and stuff.

• 10:12Speaker 01

  You ever have one cheeto? Nobody does that. You just want to keep having it. Of course you get full at some point, but at that point you've drained eight, eight hundred calories or something and you're like, oh, very well. And then a couple of hours later, you're hungry again. You do the same thing. And so the insane availability, insane in a very good way, by the way, of super amazingly tasting foods and people being just categorically way more wealthy on average is the thing. You can see this live occurring, that what happened to us in the seventies and eighties in Mexico right now. I went to Mexico on vacation for the first time in like 1998. And like almost everyone was either thin or like normal-ish looking.

• 10:54Speaker 01

  And then I went back with my wife and some friends like two years ago and holy crap. There are a lot, very charitably, there are a lot of people in Mexico that are enormous, like America enormous, like, I'm like, are you guys from Texas? And so, how is this possible? Well, Mexico's income per capita is now similar to what the US income per capita was in the 1960s. It is no longer accurate to call Mexico a third world country or a poor country. Almost no one there is poor. Food insecurity is an incredibly unlikely thing in Mexico, and most people have enough disposable income to buy all the fun foods they want. And guess what people do when they have money and they like to eat fun foods? They buy fun foods and they eat them. That really is the core of the obesity epidemic, and also another reason why new medications

• 11:39Speaker 01

  like Ozempic, Terzepatide, et cetera, Manjaro, all those things, why they are some of the only things to really take a big chunk out of obesity, is because they take your whatever genetic food drive and palatability drive you have, how much you want to eat, and they lower it based on how much of the drug you take. Now, at some point, you take enough drug, the side effects are so terrible, you're like, this isn't worth it. But for many people, there is a point at which the side effects aren't terrible yet, but they just don't really want to eat food as much as they used to, or they still do, but they turn into that girl from earlier. They have three pieces of sushi, they're like, oh my God, I'm so full, and you're like, what? And so, if there was some kind of mysterious cause for obesity, how could these medications, which really predominantly work just by lowering your hunger levels and food drive,

• 12:24Speaker 01

  how could they possibly work to kibosh obesity? But they're doing it.

• 12:29Speaker 02

  It's me, the

• 12:32Speaker 02

  We don't need the jingle twice.

• 12:35Speaker 02

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• 12:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, but I didn't mention that you can save up to 60% off hotels in the Priceline app.

• 12:50Speaker 02

  Fine. No one deals more deals than Please stop. Touche.

• 12:57Speaker 03

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• 13:27Codie Sanchez?

  It's so interesting because, you know, these days, if you were to say to a lot of people, "Well, just eat less calories," they would be like, "Well, it's also the seed oils." And haven't you heard that it's also, like you said, sort of this giant geometric blob of institutions that are incentivized to make you fat, essentially. But when you explain it that way, it makes it so much simpler. So do you think that the, we'll use the word Ozempic just because it's more normative, but do you think that Ozempic is actually good for society and good for our obesity rates?

• 13:59Speaker 01

  Incredible. I think it's a miracle drug, and I think because it's only, technically, it's a third-generation GLP drug, but fourth gen is tirzepatide, it's already on the market, Menjaro, fewer side effects, bigger primary effect. There are fifth-gen drugs currently in FDA approval process, which make Ozempic look like a starter pack version of this. And so we're just at the beginning of this crazy drug revolution where if you have a problem with your appetite and you're overeating, very soon there's going to be something you can take that probably doesn't cause you super crazy side effects and can get your eating back down to a level that is not going to cause you to increase your obesity anymore and probably reduce it.

• 14:42Speaker 01

  However, like every single tool that capitalism provides for us, you can use tools in a variety of ways. They can be empowering, or they can be less than empowering, sometimes even like crutches, for example. So if you want to be leaner and want to be healthier, drugs like Ozempic are like just the shield and sword of Athena, like, holy crap are they empowering? Because you used to be like, trying to get on a diet, three weeks later, everything looks like a giant, fatty, juicy drumstick. Like, your husband starts looking like one, "Can I eat your leg?" He's like, "What?" You're like, "I'm sorry, I just needed a snack." Pop tarts, everything. Because dieting's hard. Your body is designed, over millions of years of evolution, to be like, "Hey, we're

• 15:26Speaker 01

  at calorie deficit, probably means we're gonna die soon in ancestral times, get to the fridge, everything starts smelling good, you start fantasizing about food." But Ozempic and all those drugs can really That process so that now you're like, oh, like this is what it's like to diet if you're just, you know, like you, everyone has that girlfriend was like, oh, my God, Becky, I'm getting pudgy. And you're like, I hate you. Really have any body fat. And she's like, three weeks later, she's like, look, I have my abs back. You're like, what, what did you do? She's like, I just like ate less.

• 15:54Speaker 01

  So it turns us more into that girl that can just kind of do it. And it's just not a big deal anymore because what's called food noise or hunger noise. You're like, you're like writing something and you're like tacos. No, I didn't mean to write tacos. I'm just starving to death. All I can think about is tacos. That goes down from a yell to a quiet whisper or to nothing at all. That's enormous. On the other hand, you could do a thing where you take all the anorectics, what are called anorectic drugs and reduce your appetite. You take all those drugs in the world that you want and have no desire or motive force to actually accomplish your fitness goal. And then they will absolutely lower your body weight just because naturally you start eating less.

• 16:36Speaker 01

  But they're not as empowering and then you're not going to get as much out of them. And you can continue to still be roughly as obese as you've ever been or a little less and still kill yourself with tons of really not good for you foods. One of my colleagues, Dr. Spencer Nadolski, he's a board certified obesity specialist. He recounted a story that he had interactions with someone before where, and hopefully I, there's no names involved, so I think it's okay. Spencer will be killing me not. He was working with this person who was like, he had her on like multiple anorectic medications, obesity drugs, like many, not one.

• 17:18Speaker 01

  And so like his assessment was that like she couldn't possibly experience food drive with this cocktail. And her body weight wasn't going down and he was consulting her, trying to figure out what's going on, blah, blah, blah. And he's like, tell me what you've been eating. And she's like, well, like I had a candy bar earlier. And he's like, oh, I see. Were you hungry? Because like when you're hungry, truly.

• 17:42Speaker 01

  It's a little curt for us to judge you for just reaching for something like we're human for the love of God. We've all faltered before. And so he was looking for that like, oh, Jesus. So were you hungry? And she goes, no. And he's like, why did you eat the candy bar? And she's like, I felt like eating a candy bar. If you're that person, no offense, we're all different in our own ways. And they ain't no medications coming to save you because the medications are sword and a shield. If there's a hyena over there and you got Zeus's or Athena's shield and sword, you could just go like that and a hyena dies, but you just drop them and go, whee, it's gonna cuddle with you. And hyenas aren't gonna cuddle. So that medications now being our new best friend empowering us to do things is amazing. But we can use them to empower ourselves, or we can just use them and sort of continue

• 18:26Speaker 01

  to eat the same diet of Cheetos and Pepsi Cola. No offense Pepsi, who I think also might manufacture Cheetos, if I'm not mistaken.

• 18:33Codie Sanchez?

  Thanks for that.

• 18:34Speaker 01

  And then like if you don't want to take the little babyist nth step to help yourself, it's gonna be tough. But for those people who have been struggling with just genetically high proclivity to eat and want to do the thing, it's just really hard for them to do the thing. These medications are unbelievable. They're also on a net balance healthier for you probably to take than not to take. They have incredible glucose clearing, anti diabetic benefits. They have really cool cognitive benefits. We're learning they actually lower your addictive drive to almost everything. People like quitting smoking, they're quitting drinking on these drugs. They're they stop biting their nails and stuff. It's really trippy. And so because there's that on a personal level, when you're really, really

• 19:16Speaker 01

  hungry, like after a bodybuilding show or something, it feels like wide eyes for stuff. You just want things to go inside you. Like you can't even barely taste food anymore. You're just like, there's this gaping hole you have to fill. If that drug quiets the crap out of that, all of a sudden, making healthy choices and actually sticking to them is this thing that you just have to be an organized conscientious person to be able to do instead of being a person who's fighting like an unbelievably powerful temptation, which is tough.

• 19:44Codie Sanchez?

  That's fascinating. Do you think that I was reading a little bit about that there are some early indicators that, and you as an exercise scientist, and given this is your field and I'm just playing around in it part time.

• 19:56Speaker 01

  Don't ever question my expertise.

• 19:58Codie Sanchez?

  Do you worry at all about if we inhibit the reward sensors, let's say, inside of our body to say, no, you know, I don't want food, I don't want maybe even sex, I don't know if there's anything that shows that that happens, I won't have alcohol, like, could it mess with our reward sensors overall? Will it have any suicidal issues? Do you worry about it in the same way? I just sort of, commonsensically, I look at it like SSRIs or something. We're like, you know, they should make us happier, but because they dole these different things. Or then there's actually these third and fourth order side effects that like, we want to keep our eye out. Does any part of that actually make sense, medicinal? And what do we, is that just like everything else, it's like, good things in measure?

• 20:40Speaker 01

  It's a very good point. A couple of things. One is, we are consistently engineering, re-engineering drugs to have better main effects and fewer side effects. To the point of SSRIs, there's a new medication that just got approved in early 2024, late 2023. Japaron is the, not the trade name, Japaron is the generic name, the trade name is Exua. E-X-X-U-A. I don't know who the hell comes up with these drug names, but beautiful. It has very similar, probably slightly elevated antidepressive functions compared to traditional

• 21:19Speaker 01

  antidepressants. But its effects, at the very least, on food drive and on sex drive are not statistically differentiable from placebo. Which means that now there is an antidepressant pill that takes you out of major depressive disorder, but at the same time, doesn't really mess you up in seemingly very many ways. That's not a Gen 1 drug. That's like, Gen 9 or something. So as drugs evolve, they're seeking to reduce the side effects, some of which you describe, and increase the main effect. To the point where, if you, let's say, have like, a blood pressure drug that you take, someone can legitimately ask you, if you take a modern blood pressure medication, they're like, so what are the

• 22:01Speaker 01

  side effects? You're like, I don't think there are many, or any. You look at the medical literature, like, a few austere side effects. For some people, usually nothing. You can't even tell you're on them. And so like, man, that is a well engineered drug. So we're heading in that direction. However, we're not there yet perfectly for most drugs. And so for Ozempic and all those other drugs, there are downsides for sure. For some, and it really comes down to this, on a broad strokes level, they work just super well for almost everyone. But almost everyone, let's say is eighty five percent. Can the United States population of roughly three hundred million with this, tens of millions of people who are gonna have a bad time on Ozempic and all the other drugs like it.

• 22:41Speaker 01

  And so, yeah, we're doing great, but all those concerns you bring up, some people, yeah, that kind of saps their joie de vivre or whatever. Right. And seemingly it doesn't do a ton of that, but on the margins it can, especially at very high doses, especially as it mixes with your own internal pharmacology. It can definitely do that. There are some risks of various types of other things that can occur. Obviously, the biggest problem with these drugs is that if you crank the dosage really high to get the main effect, the side effects come up with it and those can be really well managed if you eat really well. Lower fat diet, decent amount of protein, plenty of veggies, not overeating,

• 23:25Speaker 01

  not eating a ton of super tasty foods. If you, and it can empower you to do that diet and be like, this is great. But if you take a bunch of Ozempic and then you get into some pizza, you know that thing where like, your body doesn't really tell you it's full until like twenty minutes into eating or something? There's a little validity to that. I mean, just on habit, some people can pipe down like nine slices of pizza before the bell rings. You know, like, oh, I got nine. The thing is, your stomach is digesting at such a slow rate when you're on Ozempic that you get so much pizza in the stomach at once. It can't, it kind of makes an executive decision and it goes that this is a nonstarter. I can't have rotting pizza. And then you'll get gastroparesis, which is like the cessation of digestion altogether.

• 24:08Speaker 01

  Sometimes it goes up one way, sometimes it goes the other way. Sometimes it stays in there and causes you massive pain everywhere and you go to the hospital, they pump your stomach. If you make really bad choices on this kind of drug, it's kind of like, there's like an anti-smoking drug, like Chantix or whatever.

• 24:22Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah.

• 24:22Speaker 01

  I heard that if you like, smoke on that drug, you're gonna have a real bad time. So just don't do that. But if you take the drug, you don't want to smoke.

• 24:28Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah.

• 24:29Speaker 01

  Some people will take the drug and think it's like a panacea. They think like, oh, this is instead of responsible dieting and exercise.

• 24:36Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah.

• 24:37Speaker 01

  It's not. It's an adjunct therapy to them. And in that way, it works really, really well. But if you're just like, I'm just gonna eat the same crap I always did, you might have a really bad time.

• 24:49Codie Sanchez?

  Well, I think it's like, really beautiful, the way that you talk about it, because so often, we're so dismissive of drugs for people who are, let's say, morbidly obese. And a lot of people on podcasts are just like, just get up at 6 a.m., cold plunge, sauna, then do the workout, then eat nothing with seed oil. And we just kind of de-minimize how hard it is to go backwards from something. I mean, I've seen it with my family, too. Incredibly difficult to go backwards. And if there's something that can help you in some way, and you use it responsibly, I think it's reasonable for us to appreciate that. You can tell you've talked to a lot of people because of your EQ with how you explain it. I also think with-

• 25:24Speaker 01

  I talked to no one. I sit in front of a YouTube studio.

• 25:26Codie Sanchez?

  You talk at a lot of people.

• 25:28Speaker 01

  Not even, it's just a camera aperture. They never let me out.

• 25:32Codie Sanchez?

  Really?

• 25:32Speaker 01

  Help?

• 25:32Codie Sanchez?

  No, I think he's killing it. I, um, but I'm like, the other thing I think that's kind of interesting about this is, let's say the blood pressure medicine, like, my dad's been on it forever. But the thing with my dad is, I'm like, yeah, it seems to be very helpful for you. Also, you do nothing to actually help yourself with blood pressure. Like, you think that cheese scrips are, cheese crisps are a food group?

• 25:53Speaker 01

  Whoa, whoa, whoa. You're gonna insult cheese scrips on somebody else's pod. No, wait, this is your pod.

• 25:58Codie Sanchez?

  This is the podcast. He's gonna be pissed, he'll side with you. But, but if we're like, symptom covering this other terrible thing that we're doing with drugs, I don't think that's great. But I've never heard about the food drive spoken in this way.

• 26:10Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 26:10Codie Sanchez?

  Which is not, doesn't seem to me like it would be a symptom of something wrong in the body. It might just be genetic.

• 26:17Speaker 01

  It's totally genetic.

• 26:19Codie Sanchez?

  Interesting.

• 26:19Speaker 01

  And it also happens to be somewhere where the conspiracy theorists are sort of correct in a very low key way. There is a corporate conspiracy to try to make food as cheap and delicious and accessible to you as possible, but it's not a conspiracy. It's just what people buy at the store. McDonald's over the years has tried to have a bunch of menu items that were healthy and they usually just continue them after some amount of time. And like, look like you're very, this is, your career is to be super corporate savvy and understand economics and things like that, business practices. Yeah, the McDonald's corporation, great, I love them, right? But to believe that the people in charge of McDonald's are any much more than using

• 27:02Speaker 01

  their pure Machiavellian drive to determine ROI is insane. It's a publicly traded company. If you don't do ROI as the internal calc there, they just, you're just not going to sit on the board for much longer.

• 27:12Codie Sanchez?

  Consent of alignment, that's it.

• 27:13Speaker 01

  That's it.

• 27:14Codie Sanchez?

  We're all Pavlov's dogs.

• 27:15Speaker 01

  Pavlov's dogs. And so if you get a menu item that's super healthy and doesn't taste that great, even hey, it tastes great, but super healthy, a little fibrous, a little salad feel, it is nothing, nothing really beats like one of the McDonald's cheeseburgers just sliding down your throat. You're like, I don't even have to chew this thing. I can inhale it. You give them another product, if it doesn't generate proper ROI for its alternate menu position, right? Every part of the menu is what's the ROI? And it's a stacked rank order list. If something falls below the bottom, it's out and something else is to replace it. You know all these things, it's not rocket science. If it falls below that, like, why do we sell this at all? It's gone. And on the other hand, people are like, see, they just want us to be fat. Corporations do not want you to be fat, not in the least.

• 27:59Codie Sanchez?

  They want to be rich.

• 28:00Speaker 01

  It turns out there's no, they want to be rich, and how do they get rich? They give you what you tell them you want, not verbally with your dollars. And so when they have, if they have a salad at McDonald's ever, that makes sense on the numbers, like people love it and they buy it, you will see McDonald's transformed into a health food enterprise. They don't care. Can you imagine like sitting down on McDonald's board and they're like, health foods really pick it up, our menu items in health category are crushing it. They're like, Jesus, how are we supposed to make America fat if they won't eat our junk food anymore? Foot in the line, we're selling only Cheetos. We're going, we're going down with the ship. This is never gonna happen. They're gonna sell you what people buy. Trouble is, people don't seem to, as often, in many cases, be interested in buying the

• 28:45Speaker 01

  super healthy stuff. That's a people problem. It's not a corporation's problem. Um, I mean, corporations are a second order problem to that, but what do you want them? Cause people are like, oh, these big food companies, they're really gonna be taking the task. How do you do that? You go into, stop selling tasty things people buy. What? So what are we supposed to sell? Well, good stuff. Like, we're gonna go out of business on good. Well, okay, we'll just shut it down now. It's a total nonstarter. So to those people that value personal responsibility, I'm huge on that. At the end of the day, it's up to the individual to decide, like, do I wanna go to McDonald's and get a salad with grilled chicken? Or do I wanna go to McDonald's and just have some soul food? Fries dipped in shake? You know what I mean?

• 29:27Speaker 01

  The, the girl cheat meal where there's like not even a protein source around? Yep. You know, column A, column B, which one do you want? At the end of the day, probably the best way to get some traction is to focus on the individual again. Why are you choosing to eat the following foods? Some people, and here's the, there is a positive, super inclusive side to this. Part of that argument is everyone has a different food drive genetically. You have no idea what it's like to be in someone else's body. You might think you have a lot of willpower, but it takes some people, Navy SEAL, carrying boats overhead willpower to resist eating junk food. Like, that's how, and I do have an insight on this. I've gotten down to a relatively low body fat percentage in bodybuilding competition.

• 30:08Speaker 01

  The psychology of someone whose body thinks they're starving to death, seen from the inside, is a totally different world. I'll watch movies where the characters will be at a dinner table and they're like, you know, it's like a super awesome mom-made spaghetti, kinda little loaf of bread for everyone, a little mini bun, some broccoli, like, obviously it's covered in like some kinda thing, the cheese for the camera, they're not supposed to eat it or whatever. And the characters are talking to each other. And when you're starving enough, you're, what I start to think, and many of my friends have competed in bodybuilding and lost a lot of fat, you, you start to be like, why aren't they eating? Why are they talking to each other? Because if I was in that scene, I'd be like, yo, pause. I'll tell you what happened in school after this.

• 30:51Speaker 01

  Your whole perception just goes, just food, food, food. The, there was a Minnesota semi starvation experiment back a really long time ago. Not ethical anymore, but they took some folks and they were in like a work camp situation. And they cut their calories by like, oh, roughly half. And what they noticed is the degree of food obsession skyrocketed. All they, all they thought about, talked about was food. They started doing a trade with food in the cafeteria situation. It was just insane. And so if someone lives in that world permanently, I'll say like, man, they just gotta toughen up. Like, that might not be true. They might actually be tougher than you. There is a specific person, I forgot, I'm not going to call this person by name, nor I know their name. But I was watching like a Microsoft, um, debuting some of their new AI products, big stand up thing with a projector and a huge screen.

• 31:36Speaker 01

  And there was a person there who was super, super high level at Microsoft on the end side too, like, um, and he was just like straight up morbidly obese. Not in a bad way, just physically, literally. He was talking about tech stuff and, you know, all this AI stuff. Like, that person's smarter than all of us. You don't just end up as the number three at Microsoft or whatever end side, just by like being a willless, soulless person who does whatever appears. This is a person who spent late nights, who's grinded, who's the best at, he was the best in every engineering pro, was the best mathematician, the best coder, the best everything. This is a willpower generator and he still looks like that. What do you think his food noise is like? You put anyone else in his body, they'd be 800 pounds in a matter of months and it was die in their sleep or something.

• 32:18Speaker 01

  So it's not always accurate to say that people who have let themselves go just have low willpower overall. That's the light side. The dark side is that trait conscientiousness, how much you plan ahead, how much you think about your health and everything is very genetic. So not entirely, maybe about half and influences a ton of stuff about how you live your life, including what choices you make, how to address your hunger and food drive. So a lot of people that are overweight, yeah, they really do make bad choices because just don't care that much. Yeah. One of the things that always comes up in the nutrition field is how do we improve nutritional education? What many times people fail to ask is, who wants to know?

• 33:02Speaker 01

  Like, you know, like Yes, exactly. People, and here's the thing, you, if you, they've done studies like this, you just talk to people as they enter McDonald's. You ask them like, is this healthy food? They're like, no. They know that. People know what junk food is. You give, you give someone with no nutritional education, a green, fresh apple. And then a bag of M and M's. You go, which one of those is healthier? They're like, I don't understand. Is this a trick question? It's not a trick question. They're like, the apple. Correct. How do they know that? Everyone kind of knows what's what at a very basic level. But a lot of people, you tell them like, do you know any people that smoke cigarettes by any chance? You're too young for that sort of thing. Back in my day, we smoked cigarettes. But you're just not cool enough in Austin.

• 33:46Speaker 01

  All the cool Austin people with the cowboy hat, they smoke after work. Definitely not cool. Yeah. Like men falls? Same. I've just seen videos about these cool people. Cowboys literally riding their horse into the bar. The horse is smoking too. Supermodels. The, the horse has a cowboy hat. I'm like more fascinated with the horse at this point. I'm like, what's the horse's name? What? But, um, like a lot of people that smoke cigarettes or like drink a lot. You're like, you know, it's killing you. They're like, yeah. Okay. So when a lot of times people have a high degree of body fat, you're like, you know, you could be eating better. Like, mm-hmm. What's on the menu tonight? You're like, oh my God. So there is a part of this is where it's like, dude, everyone, many, many people are trying in their own best way. And these medications help bring them back to what maybe is the average amount of food noise that everyone who's pretty lean feels all day.

• 34:30Speaker 01

  So it's not right for us to judge people. But on the other hand, uh, we can judge people a little bit because some people just don't care. And then like, how do you address that? Corporations, food stuff, that goes out the window. But there's people are going to want it anyway. Um, it comes down to talking to the individual and asking like, do you, do you want to improve your life? And if they're like, I'm good, then like, we're just going to have some obese people. And as long as, in my view, in the view of our company, uh, RP. As we want to help every single human on earth who wants to get into better shape, to get into better shape. But notice the wording, we don't want to help anyone who doesn't want to help themselves. That's particularly impossible outside of like North Korea or something like that.

• 35:14Speaker 02

  It's me, the

• 35:17Speaker 02

  We don't need the jingle twice. Stop it. This is about vacation inflation and how Priceline negotiates amazing deals on hotels, flights, and rental cars.

• 35:29Speaker 02

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• 35:35Speaker 02

  Fine. No one deals more deals than Please stop. Touche. Priceline.

• 35:42Speaker 03

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• 36:12Codie Sanchez?

  100%. My dad always says, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make a drink, which is a very west

• 36:18Speaker 01

  Is it a cigarette smoking horse with the cowboy hat?

• 36:21Codie Sanchez?

  They get thirsty. Also, speaking of thirsty, maybe we can grab like his water for somewhere.

• 36:26Speaker 01

  Oh, no, I have it right.

• 36:27Codie Sanchez?

  Oh, you have one. Okay, good. I just want to make sure you were.

• 36:29Speaker 01

  Did I look thirsty?

• 36:30Codie Sanchez?

  No, but I feel bad. I'm over here drinking and then you're, you know, having to do all the work. Okay, this is, let's talk conspiracies.

• 36:38Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 36:38Codie Sanchez?

  My conspiracy is I want to have what the kids talk about this these days, which is a snatched jaw. Have you heard of this?

• 36:47Speaker 01

  I'm sorry?

• 36:49Codie Sanchez?

  Like a really strong jaw and

• 36:50Speaker 01

  Jaw. Snatched?

• 36:53Codie Sanchez?

  Snapped. That's what they say. You ever heard this? No. Okay. You have one. So does my husband. Is it true that we are eating softer foods and so we have not, we have these like weak jaws? And if we masticate on, I don't know, hard, gross, sappy things that I see on the internet? Or if we do jaw exercises, we get stronger jaws?

• 37:14Speaker 01

  That's very likely, yeah. The effect might in some people be profound. Where like they started their jaw stuff and like a few months later, like, oh my God, like Tony Dan's that kind of thing hanging out.

• 37:27Codie Sanchez?

  That actually works, like those, those things that you chew on like that?

• 37:31Speaker 01

  Funny enough, the muscles for mastication go all the way up your head.

• 37:37Speaker 01

  I just take a lot of steroids, to be honest. JK, I used, I had these, I had the same head shape before I ever touched any steroids. It's just weird genetics or whatever.

• 37:48Speaker 01

  But to be completely honest, I used to want to be a head model. It just never happened. Don't, don't patronize me. Thanks.

• 37:55Codie Sanchez?

  Listen, have you seen models these days?

• 37:58Speaker 01

  Plenty of ugly people are models. I'm like, that's a good point. So for some people, that effect will be very small. So like chew on sticks for six months, look in the mirror and you're like, damn, I don't look the same. But on average, there should be an effect. And it will, here's the thing, like, you've got to be consistent. And so one thing, if you get some kinds of gum that are pretty hard to chew, chewing a few sticks of gum a day can get you some good jaw exercise. Changing your whole diet would be a highly inconvenient trip. Maybe you could do that. I don't know, what is the benefit of having a muscular jaw that people want?

• 38:36Codie Sanchez?

  Well, I think men want it because women find it more attractive.

• 38:39Speaker 01

  Do they?

• 38:40Codie Sanchez?

  I think so. That's like the whole Chad, you know, the meme of the Chad with the big jaw. And a slack jaw, kind of like.

• 38:46Speaker 01

  Okay, so on that note, I never can tell if the ideal man memes floating around are just perpetuated by what men think women want? Or what women actually want?

• 39:01Codie Sanchez?

  That's true, because more women choose the dad bod. I read a wild study that basically said, actually, if given two choices, a Chad, very fit, six pack, etc., versus a dad bod, a little fluffy, maybe a tiny bit of a receding hairline, on average, as a, as a partner, perhaps not in a one off situation, they choose more than 60% of the time the dad bod. So maybe you're right. Men think women want Chad's and really they want Todd's.

• 39:31Speaker 01

  Todd.

• 39:31Codie Sanchez?

  I feel like a Todd would have a dad bod.

• 39:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, he could.

• 39:34Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah. Okay.

• 39:36Speaker 01

  There's also a different, very off topic at this point, but whatever.

• 39:43Speaker 01

  Women, based on what they want out of you, you're gonna look different for them. So if they want like, like Becky just broke up with her long term boyfriend, she's like, I just need a night out. It's girls night. It's not girls night. She's, she's hunting. And, you know, it's girls night's a great cover for that sort of thing. Like, hey Liz, is that guy looking at me? She's like, I don't know. Like, shut up and look over there. She's gonna want a male that on average looks a little different than like the guy of your dreams who you fantasize about having children with after one minute of talking to him. That latter person's gonna be softer, featured, kinder, gentler, probably has like a future of income stream, stability and nonviolence. Like, this guy's probably not gonna rough me up. But if you're looking for a one night stand sort of vibe, which girls get into every

• 40:26Speaker 01

  now and again, also with their menstrual cycle, there are periods where girls will prefer one versus the other.

• 40:31Codie Sanchez?

  The wrong guy, basically.

• 40:32Speaker 01

  Oh, yes. You'll think back to your friends, like, oh, yeah, that absolutely does happen. But then you want more of like a six foot five, bearded, abs. Who else knows what? Cigarettes? I don't know. The horse. I'm just back to the horse again. But yeah, no, there's a difference there. Yeah.

• 40:50Codie Sanchez?

  I don't know where I and my wife and your wife went wrong then, because we both chose like the really jacked sort of violent dudes. Like, you're, you're a brown belt in jujitsu, right? But I guess, yeah, it's super interesting.

• 41:04Speaker 01

  My wife's way more violent than me. She's just getting into grappling now. And she can't like. Like if every now and again we'll be somewhere and there's like a crazy person being crazy. You live in Austin, you know what that's like? She starts to do like the jujitsu finger warmups and she wants that shit.

• 41:20Codie Sanchez?

  She do.

• 41:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, oh yeah. She is nuts, man. I love that bitch.

• 41:23Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah, Chris taught me a wrist lock.

• 41:25Speaker 01

  Oh yeah, dope.

• 41:26Codie Sanchez?

  Never felt more powerful in my life.

• 41:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, hell yeah.

• 41:28Codie Sanchez?

  Like a hundred percent.

• 41:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:30Codie Sanchez?

  The only problem I found with that stuff is, man, this sounds like a weird thing. I'd be curious your take, but it seems like as a woman, if you want to be good at self-defense, you actually have to really train your violent fast twitch or like fast action muscles. Because I could have all the theories in my head, but then something happens. Like one time Chris tried to show me this. He's like, just watch. And he like charged at me, like full thing across the jujitsu mat. And I just, I just freaked out and just like, I did nothing. And, um, and I feel like men, you guys get used to that. Like you're good at fast twitch. Like my husband will err on the side of violence if he needs to quickly.

• 42:05Speaker 01

  Your husband's also a Navy SEAL.

• 42:07Codie Sanchez?

  It helps.

• 42:08Speaker 01

  Slightly trained in violence.

• 42:09Codie Sanchez?

  It helps.

• 42:10Speaker 01

  He's had a few, few months of training.

• 42:11Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah. But have you found that for women, it's harder to, to err on the side of violence even when we need to?

• 42:17Speaker 01

  On average, absolutely.

• 42:18Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah.

• 42:19Speaker 01

  This is such a real thing that a large fraction of female athletes at the very top of their sports have trouble getting up for a competition, like waking up to try to do their best, especially in very, um, sports which require confrontation, jujitsu, wrestling, uh, even like volleyball and stuff like that, where like women have a more on average cooperative vibe.

• 42:41Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah.

• 42:41Speaker 01

  You know, synergistic vibe and less of a clashing of big chests vibe. And that actually makes women like, I don't know, a thousand times less violent and prone to going to prison than males. So thank God. Um, they got the luck of the draw on that one. But also a lot of times women don't have that like fire, I want to kill something kind of energy, even maybe when they need it. So one of the big things about like self-defense seminars that they teach. Two drawbacks. One is they'll teach you something for an hour. It's not enough training time for you to be able to pull it on off in real life. You need consistent training all the time. So that's a problem. The other problem is a lot of women when faced in that

• 43:24Speaker 01

  real scenario, they won't have what in the military is called violence of action. And that means like, like real gunfights, real fights for life and death. They happen very aggressively and very quickly. And if you're not in that mindset, when it starts happening to you, your brain could recess into a sort of evolutionary calculated victim mindset, where like, you know, a typical insanely thoughtless retort to, let's say, an account of sexual violence against a woman, inevitably, some guys in the internet will be like, why didn't she fight back? Well, imagine if you were a typical male, 180 pounds, five foot 10, and you were being sexually assaulted by a 340 pound, six foot seven offensive

• 44:07Speaker 01

  line. Like, you might calculate, totally subconsciously, if I resist, he's just gonna kill me. But if I just make it through this, I'll be okay and I'll deal with it later. Survival is more important than reproductive sanctity, which is super, super messed up to say, but it's also true. And so if women want to flip that switch of, I'm not interested in being a victim, they have to have the toolkit behind them, the combat training, or the arsenal, like there's cool pens you can have, like the atomic bear.

• 44:35Codie Sanchez?

  Oh, I have some of those.

• 44:36Speaker 01

  Baller. But the thing is, like, using that pen requires flipping into a very ancestral frame of mind. Because the way you're supposed to use that pen is you're supposed to take it out and repeatedly jam it up someone's chin until they fall over and then you run away.

• 44:51Codie Sanchez?

  Which sounds messy, too.

• 44:53Speaker 01

  It's insanely messy. It's supposed to be messy. It's supposed to get their blood going out of them. But if you just go poke one time, they're gonna take that pen and do things to you with it, or they'll swat it away, or they'll just proceed and doing whatever they wanted. So in a confrontation that's real, real, you have to make that switch. I'm fighting for my life. I'm fighting for my life. And then if you have a toolkit behind you of knowing what to do, you can be really dangerous as a woman and make a lot of guys really uncomfortable and no longer want to pursue anything. But if you don't know much.

• 45:24Speaker 01

  You might be in a place where you're like, oh, my God, like, uh, the more I fight back, the more violent he gets and just gotta kind of sit through this, which is terrible.

• 45:32Codie Sanchez?

  But it's so fascinating, but sadly true, I think. You know, um, I feel like you should break my heart and tell me about alcohol because I really love a couple glasses of wine. And these days I hear that's pretty much categorically not great for you. What what's going on with alcohol? Should we drink it or not?

• 45:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm drunk right now. To be honest, I'd never leave the house sober.

• 45:59Speaker 01

  Moderation is a huge thing and it's still a real thing. It's never sexy to talk about, but it's real. So if you have lots of alcohol consistently, four, five, six drinks a day, it's going to have an effect on long term health, long term cognition, definitely body fat and all that other stuff, muscle mass. If you have one or two glasses of wine a night, most nights, statistically, it has almost no effect on anything negative wise. It has maybe some curious positives here and there.

• 46:31Codie Sanchez?

  Really?

• 46:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. Like cardiac health and stuff like that. Turns out like red wine especially has some really healthy things in there for you. Another thing is if a little bit of alcohol is all alcohol is poisonous to some extent. But if a little bit of alcohol gets you into the unplugging, stress reducing mindset frame that you're going to carry through the rest of that evening, that three hours of super low stress, body and mind sympathetic nervous system goes down, parasympathetic, the relaxation part kicks up. If that gets you there, then that three hours every day of super relaxed being is such a huge health promoting factor that the alcohol to get you there is worth the trade off. Ideally, you should just be able to do meditation or something, flip into a mind frame of relaxation

• 47:16Speaker 01

  and then boom. But if it takes a few drinks, that's totally cool. The thing is, if you go from one to two drinks a day on average to two to three. You're in questionable water, three to four, you're not really questionable water anymore. You're probably doing health harm all the way up to nine, 10, 11, and then you need to go live in a rehab center for a while. So with alcohol, like with many things, the dose, the frequency, and what you do with it is important. Another thing is like, if you just have a couple glasses of wine, that's really not a big deal. But if you have a couple glasses of wine and then you get the, you get like the alcohol hunger.

• 47:50Codie Sanchez?

  No, but I've heard weed, but back when I used to use weed, that was, I was like, it's great because it's no calories. Wine is like 100 calories, a glass of wine, or 150 or whatever. But then I'd have some weed and I'd be like, the thing is, I probably need to eat that whole cake.

• 48:06Speaker 01

  It looks so good and it tastes so good.

• 48:08Codie Sanchez?

  I know. And it's hard, I think, in business for me at least. You know, I meditate, I work out a lot, whatever. But I think similar to a lot of people, it is hard for me to shut it off. This thing's always motoring.

• 48:18Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 48:18Codie Sanchez?

  And so that glass of wine, it's interesting that you say that. Because I feel guilty for it these days. And I think a lot of people do. There's so many people, like big fan of Andrew Huberman, but he's like, the thing is, if you're drinking alcohol, bad.

• 48:32Speaker 01

  He says that about a lot of things.

• 48:34Codie Sanchez?

  I know. So I think I just live joylessly through life with, you know,

• 48:38Speaker 01

  That's definitely bad.

• 48:40Codie Sanchez?

  You know?

• 48:40Speaker 01

  It's actually empirically bad to live joylessly because they've done tons and tons of research that people that don't have a lot of fulfillment and people that can't unplug and de-stress, they die much earlier than everyone else. And so many of the people that have lived the longest have had plenty of alcohol and other things in their life, but they have a very, very concentrated focal point of why they're around, deeply

• 49:06Speaker 01

  immersing career, family connections, purpose, why they wake up every day sort of thing. And so if in moderation, alcohol is a tapestry, a part of the quilt and the beautiful quilt of your whole life, it's gonna be a net positive. Ideally, if you could get what you get out of alcohol through a pill that has no actual alcohol in it, yeah, hell yeah, that'd be better. So Huberman is not wrong, wrong. But it all comes down as a trade off. And so. Like if someone said, you know, like sitting is bad for you. There's some research if you sit all really long time. Generally, activity is not that great. And then like, does that replace like sitting your kids down and watching the Lord of the Rings trilogy over a long weekend?

• 49:47Speaker 01

  Like, if that's not a cool thing to do anymore, what the hell are we living for anyway? It's a beautiful part of life that you just removed. So everything should be seen as in context on average and over net effects over lifespan. So yeah, if you're a booze hound, you're just always drunk, like you're gonna die much sooner, bad health, et cetera. But if you have a few drinks here and there, guiltlessly, I might add, guilt is not so good for the body mind connection. And you're able to relax with them very, very likely. It's a net positive.

• 50:17Codie Sanchez?

  That's fascinating.

• 50:18Speaker 01

  I don't drink, by the way.

• 50:19Codie Sanchez?

  Ever?

• 50:21Speaker 01

  Uh, no, I just, uh, I just don't get anything out of it that I used to. I used to drink a little bit in college. Because drinking reduced my inhibitions and allowed me to be more confident with others. I now arguably have like, I need more inhibition in my life than less. I got to, I have no issues with that whatsoever. And so I just don't need alcohol. It just poisons me like, I'm like, oh, I'm getting sick and I have a headache and I can't think straight. Yay. None of the positives. I do, I do dabble in the weeds a little bit. I do edibles. I don't smoke.

• 50:49Codie Sanchez?

  About that, like I, I was in cannabis actually for a couple of years, three or four years. Uh, I was an investor.

• 50:56Speaker 01

  Oh, dope.

• 50:56Codie Sanchez?

  Companies there.

• 50:57Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 50:58Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah. And I actually thought I was doing a really good thing and I'd be curious your take on this. Then, um, I started to see the THC percentages that they were putting in some of the cannabis out there and how it changed. And I had one person in my family and then just recently a second person in my family get what was diagnosed by the doctors as cannabinoid hypermesis, hypermyosis syndrome.

• 51:21Speaker 01

  Okay, what is that?

• 51:22Codie Sanchez?

  Well, apparently it is when, oof, we should check me on the internet, but, um, that cannabis can do something to your cannabinoid receptors. And you know how a lot of times they give people cannabis when they have cancer or something and they're going through chemotherapy to help with nausea? Well, um, it almost is like it triggers the opposite effect. So basically I saw it firsthand. One of my family members was staying with me. And took a hit off of a vape pen and we had a sneaking suspicion that it was something with the cannabis. But what I'm saying sober, hit, about to go to the airport. Violent vomiting for two days, blue all over.

• 52:02Speaker 01

  Holy crap.

• 52:03Codie Sanchez?

  Multiple IVs. They have to stay, he had to stay in the shower. Heat seems to like be one of the only things that temper the, the response. So they'll just sit in the shower, the bath for like hours on end. And it happened and lose like 40 pounds, like skinny, I mean, on the brink of death.

• 52:18Speaker 01

  The ultimate weight loss drug.

• 52:19Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah, cannabis. So, so I got started to get concerned about the degree at which we were increasing THC. There's no research about this because it's still schedule one. So we don't actually know why. So I'm definitely concerned about the high THC levels, just having experienced that twice. Must be something genetic too, because two of my family members had it. And arguably used high dose THC previously. But it was horrifying. It was so scary for, for our family. And he was addicted, like he had to get off of it. So I guess I never thought that cannabis was addictive previously.

• 52:58Speaker 01

  So it's kind of two kinds of addiction from what I understand, sort of. This is very, very not highly informed take.

• 53:05Speaker 01

  There's physical.

• 53:05Codie Sanchez?

  It's hard to be highly informed when there's no research, right?

• 53:09Speaker 01

  So there's like psychological addiction.

• 53:10Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah.

• 53:11Speaker 01

  Where like you like it, it fits your lifestyle. You don't want to be without it. It feels good. And then there's physical addiction, which is like if someone just stops doing heroin, they have to be supervised, otherwise they could die. And they have like crazy fevers and all this other hallucinations. And then once you're over the hump, like you're fine. But there's no real physical addiction seemingly with marijuana or nothing to write home about. Like, you don't like have people who used to do weed at like a treatment center be like, watch out, they're crazy. Like they're just kind of like, I'm not high.

• 53:38Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah.

• 53:38Speaker 01

  But the psychological addiction can be a thing. Because if you really like how weed makes you feel, you can just keep taking weed all the time and feel something like that. It's super cheap. It's ubiquitous. It doesn't like THC doesn't destroy your body's health like heroin does, for example. And so some people get into this place where they're like using a lot of weed all the time. And for a huge, huge number of people, this is totally fine. You're just high all the time. Who cares? Well, I don't know how people do it because I only do weed. Have to like, nothing is required of me. I can't be useful on weed. No, no way. But some people can, apparently. And so for them, God bless them. Use all the weed you want. But for other folks, especially at certain very high concentrations,

• 54:20Speaker 01

  they're going to get into some side effects and they're going to get into some weird quirky scenarios. And it's just not going to be something that fits for them anymore.

• 54:27Codie Sanchez?

  Oh, wasn't that so good that Mike just said, I want to pop here really quickly and tell you one thing. We saw that about 60% of our audience is not following the podcast, is not subscribed as you're listening to somebody as brilliant as Mike. I want to make sure you guys get to the next one. So do me a favor right now. Stop wherever you are and subscribe to this podcast so that you can be part of our cool crew. We've got a ton of exciting stuff coming up this week and that helps us get bigger guests for all of you.

• 54:51Speaker 01

  Basically like THC and marijuana, et cetera. This is a drug. And every drug, the way I treat it is a serious thing. Like one does not simply, there is like a culture and fitness. It more like in the Middle Eastern world and in the European world, not as much in the US. Of like, oh, I've been lifting for a few months. Let's try oral steroids. It's just like another tool in the toolbox. It's not. It's a super powerful thing that has big upsides, big downsides. It requires careful management. Marijuana is the same way. So is alcohol. And so, you know, if weed people treat as just like, oh, whatever, who cares?

• 55:32Speaker 01

  Then yes, some fraction of people are going to have a real bad time. And again, in a country of 300 million people, 5% of people have pretty bad experiences with marijuana. There's tens of millions of people that are going to be screaming at the top of their lungs that holy crap, this is poison. I mean, the other thing with weed is that like, I think a lot of people more on the hippie side of things, which I think they're great. But we all have our various ways in which we're wrong, myself included. The hippie people want to imagine that marijuana is this like, God made it for us from the earth and it's this herb that takes care of the whole being. It is never a problem and it just heals everything.

• 56:08Codie Sanchez?

  I've met a few of those.

• 56:09Speaker 01

  A few. Austin's a half the population.

• 56:12Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah.

• 56:13Speaker 01

  But like, this is not true. Yeah, weed can be great for many people, but it's also a powerful drug. And thus, we have to treat it with respect. And if and when we see that some folks are climbing up in their dosages and they're starting to have a real wacky time, it's time to pull back and think like, hold on a second. You can't just eat three 200 million THC candy bars an hour and think like, hey, this is okay. Cause maybe it is. But when it's not, we have to dump that hippie philosophy of like, weed's good. And that's the real thing is in the internet, we can get things pretty simplified, maybe overly simplified.

• 56:45Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah.

• 56:45Speaker 01

  And you start to get people that are like, weed is great versus people like weed is terrible. And a few of us who are here on the corner are like, weed's a drug. It can be good in some instances, but bad in others. Nobody wants to hear that. Shut up. That's too nuanced.

• 56:59Speaker 02

  It's me, the

• 57:02Speaker 02

  we don't need the jingle twice.

• 57:05Speaker 02

  Stop it. This is about vacation inflation and how Priceline negotiates amazing deals on hotels, flights and rental cars.

• 57:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, but I didn't mention that you can save up to 60% off hotels in the Priceline app. Fine. No one deals more deals than please stop. Touche. Priceline.

• 57:27Speaker 03

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• 57:57Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah, that is the internet, definitely. So I get slightly overwhelmed by all the supplements out there. And I really like that you have a bunch of videos where you're just super clear. You're like, here's what I think. Here are some that I like. If you had to say like some of your favorite supplements that you think actually work, what are they?

• 58:16Speaker 01

  Work for who and for what?

• 58:18Codie Sanchez?

  For being fit and healthy.

• 58:21Speaker 01

  So for most people, they're just trying to be fit and healthy. They just don't need any supplements at all. Some people can get tests for this, especially in northern latitudes, if you don't see the sun a lot, like various vitamin D supplements might be a good idea. Some people need a little bit more zinc and so on and so forth. But that's much more contextual and nuanced and depends on the individual. The average person, if they're eating a decently well-balanced diet, just doesn't need any supplements of any kind. Now, if you have a little trouble getting in your daily protein requirement, protein supplements are cool. And they're really just like actual protein food distilled down into a chocolate powder that you mix and you drink and then it's fine. So there's nothing exotic about them. If you're trying to get really extra super special jacked and you want that little bit of an edge, creatine can work.

• 59:05Speaker 01

  There are a few other supplements in that general sort of space where like for most people that just never even notice that they're on them. It's just annoying to take a powder every morning. But for some people, the trade-off is worth it and it's super cheap. It's super good for your health. But five grams of creatine a day is totally cool. Most supplements fall in that category of if you're trying to really push your fitness in that next level, there are like three or four, maybe five that are like possibly worth exploring. The other thing is if you have a nutrient deficiency of some kind, vitamin D deficiency, zinc or something, you can take those as supplements and then you'll be better. But for most people, eating remotely healthy and just pursuing a healthy lifestyle, it just would be untrue for me to say that everyone needs supplements.

• 59:47Codie Sanchez?

  So when, when people come to like, you know, RP strength, for instance, and they're looking for different ways to get fit, and I would assume often like muscularly fit too.

• 59:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:58Codie Sanchez?

  How do you guide somebody in trying to figure out supplements, let's say, or do you guys?

• 1:00:04Speaker 01

  Yeah. So we have a few videos on our YouTube channel that tell you what the supplements are that we think work and tell you about the use cases.

• 1:00:11Codie Sanchez?

  So if you were to say like, you're young, you want to get fit, you're like sort of middling right now, but you want to be pretty muscular and you're a man versus a woman. Broad strokes, I know it can't be that nuanced, but people have no time for nuance. So what would you tell somebody like that, or even the questions that they should ask themselves?

• 1:00:28Speaker 01

  Um, go to your doctor. Ask them if you were deficient in any of the essential vitamins and minerals and what tests can be done to ascertain that. Your doctor will help you out or will refer you to a registered dietitian to figure that out. And if the tests come back like you're Gucci, no worries, then you don't have to take anything. If you are deficient in some kind of vitamins and minerals, then you can start to buy supplements to address that deficiency, retest later to see that it's been addressed. And then you're good to go. If you have trouble getting in a daily amount of protein. Uh, then protein shakes and protein bars can be really cool. Those are supplements. If you want to get a little bit more jacked, but you've been lifting for a while. And you can now kind of tell subtlety versus like, oh, I have muscles versus I used to not. Creatine can be a supplement you can take.

• 1:01:13Speaker 01

  If you train really early in the morning and you're just dragging, but you know, you gotta get it done. Pre workouts can be okay, although pre workouts are really just a ton of caffeine smashed into something that tastes like.

• 1:01:24Codie Sanchez?

  One once in about how to hard sack. And I didn't realize it got better if you worked out, so I just laid there and canceled my workout.

• 1:01:30Speaker 01

  Panic.

• 1:01:30Codie Sanchez?

  In panic for an hour, but now I I kind of can use them and it works. Really does help in the gym though.

• 1:01:36Speaker 01

  It can, yeah. If you need, if you need a bit more of that rage, totally. But also like a cup of black coffee can do something very similar. And you can grade it more because like one scoop is one scoop. You could start to get the level, half a scoop or something. Those pre workouts are in my opinion, like wildly overdosed. Why? Because when people buy them, the kind of people that recommend pre workouts on the internet are the kind of people that are connoisseurs, which means they build up a tolerance. And if you don't wow people on the first dose, they're just gonna be like, this thing sucks. It doesn't work. And so a lot of times you get this increasing amount of caffeine and other stimulants inside of pre workout. To where someone like me and you who aren't used to them, yeah, you end up lying in bed thinking like, did I mess up? Am I gonna die here? Start writing out your will.

• 1:02:15Codie Sanchez?

  A hundred percent. I was like, the thing is, I took meth on accident and what happened is.

• 1:02:19Speaker 01

  Funny you should say, there used to be um, a kind of oral modified version of meth that was legal to put into supplements. There's, uh, there's a supplement called, uh, what is it? Jacked three D that was the old formula prior to like twenty fifteen or something. And that legitimately had a version of methamphetamine in it. And so like friends that used to take it were like, it was not caffeine. It was different. You would train until your body fell apart and you were just like eye lasering everything. It was intense. Yeah. Turns out it wasn't that great for your health, but whatever. You're jacked. You're on meth. Who cares?

• 1:02:55Codie Sanchez?

  How, when you go to the gym, and then I kind of wanted to switch topics a little bit, but a couple of things that I love that you've talked about. One, you've talked about how many times a week people actually need to go on average. What are your thoughts on that? Do I gotta go to the gym seven days a week? Do I need to be there for an hour and a half? Can I go for 15 minutes a day?

• 1:03:14Speaker 01

  If it's my gym and I train there as little as possible, because I don't want to see you, because I want the whole gym to myself. If it's my gym that I own, I want you to be there every day, twice a day. No, no, no, I want you to pay the membership but never show up. The Planet Fitness model. Yes. Depends on your goals and depends on how long you've been exercising at a various capacity. So if you've been training hard four times a week for an hour, and you want to take your fitness to max level, you'd have to do four times a week for an hour, or four times a week for an hour fifteen, or five times a week, or six times a week. Like, whatever physique you've gotten after months and months, and maybe even years of doing a certain frequency, like, to level up, you might have to do a little bit more, if you can recover from it. But if you're just getting into fitness for the first time, and you want to make some serious changes,

• 1:03:57Speaker 01

  but you don't have a lot of time, two sessions a week, each being 30 minutes, of doing, like, compound exercises, like rowing, and bench pressing, and squatting, and deadlifting, and doing various pull downs, and all the shoulder exercises.

• 1:04:11Codie Sanchez?

  Compound means you're moving multiple muscle groups.

• 1:04:13Speaker 01

  Multiple muscle joints at the same time, and that means it's really economical, it's efficient, because you don't have to, like, spend one set doing one exercise, one muscle, and then go to the next one. If you take very short rest breaks between sets, and if you arrange the sets such as muscles that are currently working are going to be resting on the next exercise, so like, if you, let's say, combine a bench press with a dumbbell row. Not really any of the muscles do both. And so while your bench pressing muscles are resting, you're doing dumbbell rows, instead of taking time. If you arrange that in those supersets, with two sessions per week of 20 to 30 minutes each, even with at-home dumbbells, you can revolutionize your physique and your health. If you are starting from just being a regular person out in the world who doesn't work out, huge

• 1:04:56Speaker 01

  deal. If after a year or two, your physique starts to kind of stabilize, and the gains are very slow, you can start to add another session in, and another one, until you get to, you know, one of my colleagues, Jared Feather, he's a pro bodybuilder, he trains, like, 10 times a week technically, because he has some days which he comes to the gym twice, to, like, do chest, and... Maybe some triceps, so they'll come in later and do much more triceps and shoulders and biceps. You can't, for him, a chest workout or back workout is so intense that there's not much to do after that, except go home and rest. So if you want that elite, elite, yeah, maybe anywhere from five to 10 times a week in the gym is what's going to get you in your absolute best shape that you're physically capable of getting into. That's at the expense of the rest of your life, though, so I'm not a

• 1:05:38Speaker 01

  recommendation on my part. But the really good news is that for most people who aren't working out very seriously or consistently, just two or three sessions a week, 20 or 30 minutes at a time in a gym can get you unbelievable results. However, you gotta be moving. None of this scrolling on the phone while dumbbell curling nonsense. You're gonna be sweating. You're gonna be breathing heavy. You've got to be.

• 1:06:01Codie Sanchez?

  How much sweating? Like, how do we measure intensity? That's what my husband says my problem is. I think it's very normal for women. Like, I go in the gym in collective. Everybody looks hot. They got makeup on. It's not coming off.

• 1:06:10Speaker 01

  Beautiful over there. I feel like such a troll there.

• 1:06:12Codie Sanchez?

  Beautiful. Me too. Half the time I'm at, like, my shirt's stained. It's not great. So how does, how does one measure intensity? And how important is that?

• 1:06:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's pretty important. Consistency is by far the most important. You show me someone who doesn't work out hard, but they show up every time, they're gonna get into way better shape than someone who's psychotic that, like, skips a month here and there. It's a thing. But basically, we can't measure it super well because it's really internal. But that's up to the person watching this to decide, how far am I pushing in? And so a really good landmark for it is this. First of all, try hard. Say, you know, this set, I'm gonna push my body, and here's a big one. I'm going to accept the inevitability of discomfort. I'm here to be uncomfortable. If I'm comfortable the whole time that I'm training, I'm doing something wrong. And there's a couple ways to tell if, at the end of a set, you're really pushing the muscle very close to failure. Because

• 1:07:04Speaker 01

  when the muscle can't lift the weight anymore, that's kind of the ultimate arbiter of, like, you're training pretty hard, and that's good enough. So how can you tell you're getting close to failure? Two ways to tell, one is probably a bit better than the other. One is, how fast are you lifting the weights? Like, if you're rowing a row machine, and every rep looks like this. And you rack it. Someone's like, bro, you really couldn't have done a few more? You're like, ah, it got really, really tough. I don't believe you. Nothing changed. So if the last few reps are starting to get real slow and anytime you want to quit between when they start getting slow and when you can't move anymore, is A, okay. You're in that zone of acceptable difficulty to really get great results. The other one that occurs roughly at the same time is how does your perception of how hard and heavy the exercise feels change as you do the reps?

• 1:07:49Speaker 01

  So reps one through 10, you're bench pressing and you're like, feels like 45 pounds or whatever it is. If you're gonna fail with a gun to your head at 15 reps, anything after 10, 11, rep 12, rep 13, you may even be able to move it at the same velocity because you're really tuning up. But perceptively, the weight is going to feel heavier, like it's pushing back at you. If you can do a whole set of dumbbell curls, you ever been to like an aerobics class? They do a set of 10, they put the dumbbells down, they do something else, you're like, but he tried on that set. If at the end of the curls, you're like, really straining, you're working hard enough. And as long as you do that on every single working set of your program, you're gonna get all the sweating, you're gonna get the heart rate benefits,

• 1:08:34Speaker 01

  you're gonna get the fat loss benefits, you're gonna get the cognitive benefits. If you never really look like you're trying, and more importantly, if you don't feel like you're trying, you're not gonna get as good a result.

• 1:08:43Codie Sanchez?

  God, it's so helpful, actually. Now, I'm gonna do that. This is kind of a crazy idea. I sort of wonder if in the future, we'll be able to buy fitness.

• 1:08:53Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:08:54Codie Sanchez?

  Really? Because I kind of think-

• 1:08:55Speaker 01

  I can't agree anymore.

• 1:08:56Codie Sanchez?

  Okay, tell me. Tell me why. Will we be able to buy hot bodies and being fit in the future? And if so, how?

• 1:09:04Speaker 01

  This is very much speaking to a huge passion of mine. So anytime that you train with weights, or that you eat a different way, or that you do physical activity, the real thing you're doing is activating certain biochemical pathways in your muscles and other tissues. You're trying to get certain molecular machines to turn on. When these machines turn on, they signal other parts of the body to start building muscle, to start losing fat, to do whatever. And so the reason we do all this stuff is just to turn on a few molecular machines. Now, if we develop drugs that just turn on those machines anyway, why do we need to do this?

• 1:09:46Speaker 01

  Now, there are still some connective tissue benefits, which you could also target with different drugs. I'm getting ahead of myself. There are psychological benefits to training. They're awesome. I don't want to take away from that at all. It's very important to some people. But if you just want the result physically of fitness, and we know that the way to do that is to activate biochemical pathways, the ability to develop a cocktail of drugs to target most of them is very much within our reach currently. So, right now, we've developed a drug that reduces your appetite substantially. It's a new line of anorectic drugs. They really, really work. And so like, we already have a drug that can cause you weight loss. Like, that's really dope. That's like half of the battle. Another drug that I'm looking forward to hopefully hitting the markets in the next five to 10 years

• 1:10:31Speaker 01

  or something is a pure anabolic. What that means is, if you take anabolic steroids, they grow muscle while you're just sitting there, a ton. They grow as much muscle as working out does, but you don't have to work out. The problem is, they give you heart disease risk, stroke risk. They drive you insane. They take sex drive, goes all over the place. If you're a woman, they're called androgens, man creators. They will turn you in every conceivable way into more of a masculine person. You'll get hair growing all over here. Getting ready for the club becomes more difficult, or easier, depending on which target you got. So, they're really, really terrible at this. But it turns out that there are certain receptors we know exist and certain molecules in the body exist,

• 1:11:12Speaker 01

  that if you target them, you'll just get purely muscle growth of skeletal muscles, all the normal ones you can see, and really nothing else. Have you ever seen the pictures on the internet of like, the cow and the mouse and the greyhound? They're like, they're super jacked. They don't work out. They just have a genetic mutation in which there's a molecule, a protein called myostatin. Myo muscle, statin means stopper. It stops muscle growth. It caps muscle growth all the time. So it turns out, your body's muscle growth machinery is always kind of like, ready. It's ready to go and it stops it. And so if you deactivate that gene, you don't make myostatin anymore. Your body's like full tilt muscle growth all the time, right? It's boom, just goes. So which why the cow is adorable. This is a gentle cow and he's a standard.

• 1:11:55Speaker 01

  Triceps are hanging, fat free and everything. Cause most of your metabolism starts going to your muscles. Your fat gets starved and then you're just super lean and super jacked. There is no current human grade myostatin deactivator drug. But to make one isn't a matter of like, like, how do we get people to like Alpha Centauri? The next star like that's a huge undertaking with a lot of questions that we don't have answers to. And a lot of questions, we don't even know we should be asking. How to make a myostatin inhibiting drug is just a matter of like the guys doing the AI modeling with drugs now. Just put that into the computer, getting a couple of candidate drugs out, testing them on animals and then humans. And boom, you got one. It's not super complex. It's also one target. It's just one protein.

• 1:12:40Codie Sanchez?

  Why haven't they done that? You don't think?

• 1:12:41Speaker 01

  Uh, drug companies are, as we talked about earlier, profit and loss enterprises. And the number of people that would be paying a lot of money to get a muscle enhancing drug is just like relegated to like fitness people. And even not most of them, because most people are like, I'm not taking any drugs. And most fitness people in America, they don't take steroids because they're like, that's poison and they're not wrong. And so you make your pharmaceutical company, you do years of FDA approval to get a drug that like 300,000 people buy like. You're in the red, like $3 billion or something like that. However, this is changing now as we're getting a grip in the pharmaceutical industry on having drugs that allow people to lose weight. We're now realizing that, oh, oh gee, we're having a lot of more elderly people and people who can lose a lot of weight. And then they're under muscled.

• 1:13:25Speaker 01

  They just don't have enough muscle to be as healthy as they could be. Activities of daily living become a problem. So now there was a position paper written about a year ago. That was like, we need a non androgenic anabolic for a ton of stuff because it's going to reverse diabetes. It's going to do all this really cool stuff. And so now that's probably going to start to be in the pipeline. It's just like, when you have heart disease and diabetes and all those other things that are prominent, you develop drugs for them. Like what is the American obesity drug market? I don't know, 200 million people? Holy crap. So even if a million people are willing to pay for this muscle gain drug, that's not enough. But over time it builds and builds and all of a sudden, now that we have AI powered drug discovery. The process to getting, here's the worst thing that can happen to a drug company short

• 1:14:10Speaker 01

  of their drug killing a bunch of people once it's approved, stock price, right? It's terrible. You have a drug that you took a long time to develop. It gets into FDA trials, like phase one, two, three, and it fails them. Like, what are you, what are you supposed to do? Like, fellas, we're in a hole, three hundred million dollars, we've got nothing, nothing, and nothing. It's not like you can, you know, oh, sell, we'll sell to these people, this country. It's just not going for sale anywhere. Imagine that? Like, let's say you're in a t-shirt business. You got some t-shirts that you make. It doesn't cost a lot of money to make t-shirts. And let's say you don't sell all that well. Whatever, like, we made two hundred, two hundred bucks. We didn't lose three hundred million dollars. And so now with AI-powered drug discovery, you can get a drug predicted by AI to, like, within ninety-nine percent chance, be exactly as effective at what you think it's gonna

• 1:14:54Speaker 01

  do before it enters the phase, the phases of real animal and human trials. And then, there's a huge chance that it's just gonna, like, rock star all through those, and then it's not as big of a risk anymore. Pre-AI drug discovery, you had, your chemists better be damn good at guessing the receptor concentration and the receptor shape, because if they get it wrong, that's like hundreds of millions, if not more, down the drain. That's not anymore, in the next five years, going to be nearly as big of a problem. It's kind of like this, um, if you have a couple of days to get a picture to be really beautiful using Photoshop and AI image generation, that you're gonna make a pretty picture. But if they give you a crayon, and the President of the United States watches you draw a picture, and go, you got one shot, go, you're like, oh, and it's wrong, sucks, you suck, sorry, you're gone.

• 1:15:39Speaker 01

  Holy crap, that's what drug discovery used to be like, you know, one shot of making a molecule, as soon as it enters the phases and the trials, you're already losing money if it doesn't just blockbuster everything. So, being that that's the current environment, we're gonna have this, I predict, very confidently, in the late 2020s, especially through the 2030s, we're gonna have a, a drug renaissance, where they're gonna be able to make drugs that are incredibly targeted at one specific thing, they're gonna just start kiboshing entire classes of disease. What that's gonna do for people is, people can be on an anorectic drug to control their appetite, they can be on an anabolic drug to increase their muscle mass, there are many drugs. That they've tested in animals, which replicate almost every feature of exercise, but it's just through a pill.

• 1:16:21Speaker 01

  Like, everything you think an exercising rat would be able to do, that rat can do just because it takes the pill. You can Google this, it's very ubiquitous. Once they get that working in humans, you'll just be taking maybe three drugs. And almost everyone you see on the street is going to be in incredibly good shape. That, in addition to that, what happens later is, we start thinking, okay, we have DNA, right? Genetic code that makes these proteins. And they do some really good stuff. But we need drugs to make the proteins more effective, or we need drugs to take the blocking proteins out of the mix. Why don't we just change the DNA so that our DNA creates a beautiful body for us? In the probably late 2030s, that's going to be almost inevitable.

• 1:17:03Speaker 01

  Obviously, by then, you might have cybernetic replacements for stuff, really wacky stuff. But I think that's the direction it's going in, is like, exercise is awesome and amazing. And having to watch your diet, having to do exercise, takes hours out of your day. Why not just be the person that genetically is amazing and looks like they want anyway, and do that? And my last kind of mini point on this is, as long as regulatory agencies approve this, the market incentive is unbelievable. So you see a coworker you haven't seen in a couple of years, she's transformed, you're like, what did you do? She's like, I take two pills. Like, they've got to be crazy, like, expensive, like, that, they're nominal. You're like, but they're bad for you, like, no, they're actually really good for me, my health is as good as it's ever been. You're not going to be like, oh, she's crazy.

• 1:17:46Speaker 01

  You're going to be like, I'm going to Google a few things, because what the hell is going on? Once they have drugs like that that are effective, huge fractions of people will be on them. And then we won't have to exercise as much, and then we can use exercise to connect better with other people, more social exercise, play team sports for fun, hike, do combat sports, all this other great stuff, instead of just like being in the gym and being in pain. Which if anyone still wants to continue to do, they absolutely can. But then it'll be like a extra thing you can do versus the thing you have to do.

• 1:18:17Codie Sanchez?

  So interesting, you're almost like a fitness optimist, or like a health optimist, sort of like they have the techno optimists, you know?

• 1:18:24Speaker 01

  I'm one of those two.

• 1:18:25Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah, me too, it sounds like it. But, you know, I think right now, people... There's sort of this camp that's happening with people not trusting drug companies, especially, let's call it, post-vaccine and sort of the rollout there, people not trusting food companies because of additives and obesity rates. And so it'll be interesting to see if, like, the villains could, in some ways, eventually become the victors, or new victors sort of arise through technology. And I actually, I think all these corporations, like you said, are not made up of Machiavellian lizards. They're made up of humans, just like us, that are working on incentive alignment. And like, if we change the incentives where actually they can make more money off of fit people overall and healthy people, and

• 1:19:07Codie Sanchez?

  not like length of care, but actually like acute change of health, then that's probably what they'll do. And/or a really good competitor will come up and eat their lunch if they've just focused on keeping people sick as opposed to making somebody healthy.

• 1:19:18Speaker 01

  That's the thing is, I've never seen any internal documents of any pharmaceutical corporation that explicitly addresses this idea of sick care. I've only seen sick care and conspiratorial references.

• 1:19:32Codie Sanchez?

  Interesting.

• 1:19:33Speaker 01

  I don't think any executive in their right mind, even if they thought, "Look, we don't want to cure cancer. That'll be terrible for our profits," which I'll get to in a sec, that's backwards. They're gonna be like, "Well, we want people to still have cancer, but our drugs are gonna make you feel better. That way we'll make the real money." If you articulate that to scientists researching the drug, to members of the board, to privileged investors, to business partners, like some company sells you, like, assaying machines, because you're a pharmaceutical company, you use them to develop drugs. And you're like, "Yeah, we want the Class B model, not the Class A model." They're like, "The Class A model leads to cures." You're like, "We're not into cures." If that leaks

• 1:20:14Speaker 01

  to the media, you're not done. You're done-done. Pfizer, gone, gone. It's never happened. Because those people are generally much smarter than the average person, and they've done that thought experiment in their head, and they go, "Even if we wanted to do this crazy thing where you're on purpose keeping people sick?" How the hell do you keep them under wraps? Bill Clinton was trying to get one BJ in the White House. That got out, right? Like, secrets are real hard to keep in a corporation. You can't even like CIA threaten people like, "We'll kill you." "They're not gonna kill me, I don't have anything." One straight email to the wrong person and you're done. So this idea that corporations intentionally, pharmaceutical corporations are intentionally keeping people sick, is baffling and wrong.

• 1:20:58Speaker 01

  And honestly, like, I'll make a bit of a further inclination here, probably damaging my character. It's offensive to the people that work at these corporations and to sick people in a certain light. A certain light, it's an interesting hypothesis, it could be true. It's probably not true, and here's why. Pharmaceutical companies, you go into pharmaceutical company, you real talk, just real human to human with the researchers, with the CEOs and everything, and you go, "Where's the cancer cure?" They're gonna be like, "Motherfucker, we don't fucking have one, you idiot." Can you imagine what would happen to Pfizer's stock if they had a drug approved that straight up cured cancer? Can you imagine any other drug they made after with the tagline of, "From the people that fucking cured cancer." "We're done." "Goodbye, competition."

• 1:21:44Speaker 01

  It turns out the human body is insanely complex. And but for AI's discovery of how that all works, shortly, we're stabbing in the fucking dark. So when people say like, "Man, corporations are trying to keep us sick."

• 1:21:56Speaker 01

  I wish there was some evil conspiracy to do that so there was really these hidden away drugs that made us super healthy. They don't have them, and they're desperately trying to get to them as fast as possible. No, of course, if you have a drug that's a therapeutic, is it in your 100% best interest to completely erase that illness and disease? Maybe not. Can you outright tell your guys at the company to stop working on one? No, holy shit, they'll expose the crap out of you. Just go to New York Times and be like, "Sick care, it's happening." You're done, bro, you're done. This is like why CEOs do the old, you know, they all keep a gun under the cover. You know how it is, you're a business person, "Oh, that's it, stock price went down, it's a..." Um, so that that's just not how it works. And to your point earlier, competitions and motherfucker, man. If Pfizer's not working out at Novo, nor is Sure Shit Is.

• 1:22:42Speaker 01

  And there's how many other pharmaceutical companies the world over? And do you think companies in other countries can be influenced by the global corporate? No, no, hell no. There's some company in Japan that's gonna cure cancer. And all the American companies who maybe are even colluding with each other, they're not. But maybe they are. They're not gonna be able to control that. Taiwan, you got representatives in Taiwan? Do we have pharmaceutical representatives in every single worthwhile lab in the world? Making sure the guys, remember, no cures, just treatment. The whole thing is fucking insane Alex Jones level fantasy. It's just not happening. And the real nasty thing is, and at this point I sound, you know, a bit left of center and all this. Well, maybe not. And I'm pro corporate, which is nobody agrees with. You could go next. Libs exists. The, the other thing is this.

• 1:23:28Speaker 01

  A lot of people

• 1:23:31Speaker 01

  don't even care about the treatment or the cure. They're just gonna do what they do. People talk about the whole corporations are like trying to give you food that's bad for you. Do you give a shit? Or you just buy Cheetos? There's no lie, there's no grand conspiracy. The corporation's like, we're secretly poisoning, don't tell anyone. We're like, hey, Cheetos have all these chemicals in them. And they're on sale. Now, if people really gave a shit, they'd stop buying them. They don't. A lot of people don't. So a lot of this comes back down to like, corporations are just like the people at the market to like unveil their shit. And they're like, do you want any of this? If you say yes, hell yeah, you're signing up for it. It's up to you to be like, well, no, I want healthier stuff. And here's the thing. How many corporations are selling healthy stuff?

• 1:24:12Speaker 01

  Oodles. Whole Foods' entire brand is based on healthy stuff. There's all these other players and it's up to humans individually to choose. Like, do I want the stuff that's not so good for my health? Or otherwise, I wish there was a conspiracy so we could tell the drug manufacturers, like, do better, work on cures. They're trying.

• 1:24:29Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah, I agree.

• 1:24:30Speaker 01

  They're trying desperately.

• 1:24:31Speaker 04

  Priceline Negotiator.

• 1:24:34Speaker 02

  It's me, the

• 1:24:35Speaker 04

  Priceline Negotiator.

• 1:24:37Speaker 02

  We don't need the jingle twice.

• 1:24:38Speaker 04

  What about a third time?

• 1:24:40Speaker 02

  Stop it. This is about vacation inflation and how Priceline negotiates amazing deals on hotels, flights, and rental cars.

• 1:24:47Speaker 04

  Seems like they just started.

• 1:24:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, but I didn't mention that you can save up to 60% off hotels in the Priceline app.

• 1:24:53Speaker 04

  Time to read the tagline.

• 1:24:54Speaker 02

  Fine. No one deals more deals than

• 1:24:57Speaker 04

  Priceline.

• 1:24:58Speaker 02

  Please stop.

• 1:24:58Speaker 04

  Priceline.

• 1:24:59Speaker 02

  Touche.

• 1:25:00Speaker 04

  Priceline.

• 1:25:01Speaker 02

  Priceline.

• 1:25:02Speaker 03

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• 1:25:32Codie Sanchez?

  I don't think there, I mean, I don't know if there's a conspiracy or not, but I think the one item that I do think is real, we talked about this before, is just incentive alignment. And so some of the problem with corporations overall, and I've seen it firsthand from being in finance, is just the nature of the stock market. It's actually, it's not, the stock market is not inherently good or bad, but it is quite short term. And so, you know, if you always have an incentive to have short term alignment as opposed to long term, which is usually what happens in private companies to a bigger degree, that's problematic. And if you have alignment to have maximum profit increase above all else, that's bad. And an interesting example is, for instance, like China. They did this fascinating thing with one of the, I don't remember what they call it

• 1:26:15Codie Sanchez?

  there, let's call it a mayor, but let's say you're a mayor of a region in China. And they did something that I would have thought was very clever when I first heard it, which is, how do we measure our politicians right now? We have no idea if they're good or bad, right? We go, I like that guy because X, I like that guy because he's not Y, you know? And, uh, and so that's good or bad. But there's no like track record, there's no scorecard. We have no idea. At least as CEO, you can see their public stock parameters and how are they done? One way or the other, there's some metrics. Well, they said, hey, why don't we actually just measure the mayors by GDP growth and employment? Do they employ more people? And do they increase the economic activity? That seems like something politicians should do. And that seems like a great idea. And it was in many ways, and it lifted many areas of China out of poverty.

• 1:26:57Codie Sanchez?

  One thing that they didn't think about, though, was with every sort of right oar on a boat, you need a left oar, you gotta have a collar, right? And so the right oar was like growth and employment, let's go. Well, the left oar was whoops, what about environmental impacts? Whoops, what about waste? And so they created like sort of these toxic zones through this, and they eventually had to change it. And their version of the FDA, I think they, they killed him. They, he was put up for, because in China, they got a different sort of justice system. Yeah. But there was a widespread outbreak, killed a bunch of people, so he went to jail or died. And, uh, and so I think one of the things that, at least for me, looking on the outside to the, to the pharmaceutical industry or to the health industry overall, is we do

• 1:27:38Codie Sanchez?

  have to look at, not only, one, can the individuals have higher willpower, but two, how are these people being judged if they win or lose? Which kind of takes us to the next point I want to talk to you about, which is teamwork. Like, I actually don't think that you really ever have an employee that's just like, it's very rare where the employee's just shit. They're just awful, they actually want your company to fail, they don't want the job, you know? Like, that's not that normal. Often, it's a couple of things. Like, you placed the wrong person in the wrong seat, they have bad incentive alignment, you want them to do something that is actually not in their best interest to do. Um, or, you know, you have a person that just X grew or changed in the company and they went sort of Y direction, there's not a fit anymore. So I do think there's like, in the world of fitness and health, it seems like there's the same thing.

• 1:28:23Codie Sanchez?

  We have some bad incentives overall with the stock market, with perhaps integration between, uh, and this isn't just health and fitness, but everything, big companies and government incentive. We always want to protect industries in order to protect our entrenched entrants and to not allow competitors. If we get a chance, we don't want new competitors. So I think there is- I get why people get conspiracy theories, but I'm with you. It's not because they're really brilliant and secretive. It's because there are perverse incentives that if we change, there would be a different outcome. Then we'd have different perverse incentives, but that's why.

• 1:28:56Speaker 01

  The net balance. No, I think that's great. I think the net balance of incentives is what really matters. It's also not, it's not a mystery as to how to create a regulatory environment that is super beneficial. There's not a ton of debate in formal economics about the basic outlines of that plan. Like very low levels of very basic regulation, especially ensuring that due process will be followed every single time. And you favor long time horizons, like most of the regulatory structures in Canada, the US, England, most of Western Europe, Japan, Taiwan, they're very good. You have regulatory structures in other countries like Spain, for example, where like,

• 1:29:39Speaker 01

  it's not entirely clear if they're on your side or not. And the government has so much power to arbitrarily declare this corporation the winner versus not, that self-interested corporations have to play the lobbying game because you can't win without the lobbying game. And so it's really quite clear from an economics perspective, how to create intelligent regulation. It's no longer mysterious. It hasn't been mysterious for probably 100 years. But the thing is, when people vote, most people are economically illiterate, in the literal sense. And it's worse than that because most people feel like they know economics, but they know opposite of the truth in many cases. Like, for example, people talk about housing getting expensive.

• 1:30:21Speaker 01

  There's actually only one reason housing is expensive, pure regulation. That's good for no one. But it turns out that both landlords and tenants roughly agree on how much housing regulation there should be, and it hurts both of them, but they just feel like it's the right thing. They're just wrong. So there's all kinds of stuff that democracy is like, you know, the worst way of all to govern, but all of the other ways are much worse. And so hopefully, as people become intelligent, over time, more intelligent, more educated, and more libertine in their attitudes of living that live. As has been happening through history, but kind of up and down here now and again, the eventually the corporate regulatory environment gets better and better and better. But there's also a bit of that ethos to bring in to how you run a company.

• 1:31:06Speaker 01

  So like at RP, I'll wave the flag a little bit here, but this can be done with any company. You have to have a real good reason of what you're doing that comports with the rest of society. So at RP, our deal is this, we only exist to try to get everyone who wants to become more fit version of themselves, tactics and tools and strategies to do that easier at a very reasonable cost financially and everything else wise to them. If and when there is no more reason for us to exist because everyone is genetically altered and is fit forever, we'll lay it down and we'll cash out and we'll just not be a company anymore. We're not going to try to be like, oh, you can scuz away some money somehow.

• 1:31:46Speaker 01

  And so corporations are part of a society-wide team to try to make everything better. The purpose of a corporation is to supply demand. It is to give people what they want, but also in as long of a time horizon as possible. So if you give people what they want and it hurts them in the medium term, you can run a company like that and many people do. But if you want to become super, super rich, rich for real, for real, you want a company that outlasts even individuals that run it. So for example, General Motors or Ford, they're older than any living human. There's companies in Japan that are four or 500 years old. If you run a company like that, that company's mission has to be long-term, that our customers that we're supplying are straight up better off because we exist.

• 1:32:30Speaker 01

  And so now each corporation is kind of a player in this super big team of society corporations around, and they're all trying to help everyone else in getting money for it, which is great. You benefit, I get rich, I go use my money to benefit, someone else gets rich, super, super happy circle. So it's all one giant team. You lens down a little bit to the corporation itself. And everyone in the corporation, every worker, has to have a similar mentality of, I am here to try to help the corporation, which means all the other people that work around with me. And because I help them, they get better at doing what they do. They are able to help me better and we all lift each other up. So this one giant cooperative web at every single level of analysis.

• 1:33:15Speaker 01

  And if you come at it from that perspective, a lot of the weird incentives start to fall off. And you start to realize that selfish incentives, short sighted incentives, bad incentives to do all these other nasty things are often because you just weren't thinking long term enough. Because people say like, oh, let's make a quick buck. What you going to do after that? Who's going to trust you? No one's going to trust you. You're not going to make a lot of money. How do people who make billions make their money? And by providing real, over the long term, quality, high value stuff. And if you really think through that as a person who runs a corporation or a person who works for one, you just bring that attitude into work of how can we help our customers?

• 1:33:58Speaker 01

  And in a way that is super awesome for them, also considers their long term interests. Because if people realize a company they're doing business with is painstakingly thinking through what's best for them, the customer, in the long term, they never leave you, man. They might leave you for someone categorically superior, as well as they should. Because you should quit and go work for that company because they're that much better at pleasing and serving the customer. So that whole web of essentially cooperation, like we're all on the same team, all humans in this world, except for like ISIS or whatever, they just need to be killed off. Well, they're explicitly on a different team.

• 1:34:36Codie Sanchez?

  They're trying to get in there. Not many of them left, not having a great time.

• 1:34:40Speaker 01

  Right, yeah, good times ahead for those people in heaven or whatever. But outside of like nasty and sane terrorist people, we're all trying to work together to have a better time on planet earth. And that means at every level of analysis, including the family and corporation, the questions we should be asking are, how do we create the most value? How do we provide the long-term benefits to everyone so that some level of trust but verify develops? Like, if I go to the store and I buy a 20-ounce bottle of Coca-Cola, Coke Zero, which is God's gift to mankind.

• 1:35:15Codie Sanchez?

  Gross.

• 1:35:16Speaker 01

  And so they say, what?

• 1:35:18Codie Sanchez?

  I couldn't do it. No chance. That's just at your number one?

• 1:35:21Speaker 01

  That's it.

• 1:35:22Codie Sanchez?

  That's your go-to?

• 1:35:23Speaker 01

  Caffeine-free Coke Zero, because I don't drink caffeine much.

• 1:35:27Codie Sanchez?

  Caffeine-free Coke Zero? This is the grossest thing I've ever heard of in my life. Do people know about this on the internet about you?

• 1:35:34Speaker 01

  People know about me about this, yeah. But now more people, and that's terrible.

• 1:35:38Codie Sanchez?

  This is a quirk.

• 1:35:39Speaker 01

  It's a quirk. But here's the thing. When I go to get that bottle of whatever from PepsiCo or Coca-Cola, I have a very high probability assessment that two things are the case. One, they're not trying to poison me. And two, they're gonna try to make a product that I like a lot. They're trying to make me happy. So if you have a corporation which either has internal attitudes in its employees of like, "I'm gonna get mine, fuck everyone else,"

• 1:36:05Codie Sanchez?

  Not good.

• 1:36:06Speaker 01

  Not good.

• 1:36:07Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:08Speaker 01

  If you have an attitude of, "I'm trying to help everyone that I am able to with my skill set to empower them," you got a good thing going. And then it's a matter of, "Do you have the skill set?" So like, our CEO and our P, Nick Shaw, he does almost no grandstanding, very few board meetings where he's like, "I gotta have a quarter of numbers, it's going down." You guys are trying to blame people. He doesn't do that. What he does is he knows he has a lot of talented people, engineers, super talented. Everyone in the company is fucking just a baller. And then I'm there also. But in a closet, very dirty closet, I don't even have a light switch, I just do this. The laptop, they say, provides enough like for me to work. And everyone's super talented and everyone is aligned that we're like just fucking trying to help people.

• 1:36:52Speaker 01

  We're trying to help people get in more shape, better shape, if they want. And because everyone's aligned on that general thing, Nick's job really is just one thing. It's to address various people and divisions in the company. To ask them the question, do you have everything you need to be as empowered as possible to help everyone else in the company and the end user?

• 1:37:11Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:11Speaker 01

  That's the only thing it does. And like, it's such a good vibe to have. Like, it's really cool for me to work personally for a company. Like, there's no fucking trick. There's no upside, there's no secret quirk. There's not like, well, we get to this many users in our app databases, then we sell and we fuck and cash out. Fuck these people, we don't care about them. Pure long game. We're just trying to get people in shape. And I think most companies can have that vibe. Like, I've read some of your stuff about how you're trying to empower people to invest in local, small businesses. Like, there's not like a get rich quick scheme at the end of the day for you on that.

• 1:37:42Codie Sanchez?

  Sometimes I wish. Like, you know what will make me billions? Laundromats.

• 1:37:46Speaker 01

  Right. It's not like you're buying the businesses and then nuking them and then installing nuclear reactors instead of schools, but children are the fuel, that sort of thing. I do have a penchant for that, like, mega evil rich guy fantasy world, like Captain Planet type of shit.

• 1:37:59Codie Sanchez?

  I like to read it, I like to read.

• 1:38:00Speaker 01

  It'll be great, right, exactly. But there's no thing like that for you. You're just trying to get people to spend their money in such a way that decades down the line, they can be in their 50s and be like, really glad we listened to Cody, because like, fuck, man, we have like three laundromats that we own. We don't have to work anymore. But it's not like you're scusing and taking money off the top of a laundromat. You gotta stay in business. So laundromat has to be updated all the time, better machines, better customer service, better, better, better. Because if your customers are having an amazing experience, that to me is rank one of how to run a business. Rank two is, is their amazing experience sustainable and healthy for them in the long term? Will they continue to be repeat buyers? Selfishly, because we want repeat buyers.

• 1:38:44Speaker 01

  Also selfishly, for our whole team as a society, we're not trying to hurt people. Which is why, like, you know, if you're like a person that like sells crack on the street, on the one hand, you're kind of doing a good thing, supply and demand. People want crack, you're here to bring them crack. But also, crack kind of destroys a lot of people. So you gotta be up at night like, fuck, man, am I really doing the right thing? I suppose most crack dealers are not up at night. Probably not, but maybe. They don't get high in their own supply of those. They're still not doing that, up at night on crack alone.

• 1:39:10Codie Sanchez?

  I always think if you can run a crack business and make a ton of money, you're probably a really good entrepreneur.

• 1:39:15Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 1:39:15Codie Sanchez?

  And like, you should just try the, you should try the straight and narrow.

• 1:39:18Speaker 01

  That is actually an interesting, so first of all, a guess, but also there is a reason why if you look at real crime, huge fascination of mine is real crime that actually happens versus TV crime, movie crime. Movie crime, they got the three-piece suit, they're connected to the mayor, they got the slick operation. Real crime is a bunch of fucking idiots tripping over themselves, selling each other out to the FBI every other day. It's true. Real criminals that are smart are usually like, wait a minute, I'm expressing diligence and organizational efforts to try to generate profit. Well, I could, I could just make a lot more money and not go to jail if I did that in the computer sales or something. So, most criminals are just totally degenerate people with barely anything going for them because like you'd have to be to choose crime as a way to do things.

• 1:40:01Speaker 01

  So, most of the best cartel people, they're, you're just not going to get the best to do that because they're going to be like, what, with my skill set, I'm just being accountant. I don't have to worry about getting shot in the middle of the night in my bed while I sleep. Yeah. So, so that's a thing, but that whole corporate idea of starting from first principles of there are humans in the world that need our help, but we can't work for free because then we starve to death. So, if we can make a product or service set that really actually helps these people for real, for real, and it occurs at an economic scale that they can afford, but also that lets us do nice things and I like to crash my private planes for fun. That's a thing. I'll fly it. I don't know how to fly, but who cares, right? Because the pilots jump out first, they have parachutes.

• 1:40:45Speaker 01

  I have a parachute and as soon as it starts to crash, I'm like, and then I go, right? It's a, it costs money. It's $10 million a plane. I'm not made of money, literally in a sense, I serve, sort of am at this point. But like, if we are to get super wealthy, we have to find out, how do we please the most number of people in a truly deep way that they'll continue to come? That is the most secure business model in the entire world. It also has this awesome thing of like, it has great vibes. Like, you know, this is, there's many corporations or entities, especially back in history, which you could be involved, you can make a lot of money, it's just, just don't feel that good afterwards and no thanks to anyone, because I think a lot of people love gambling in a very safe and healthy way, most people actually, but like, if you're in the gambling business, like you run a casino, you go home, your wife's like, how was it working? Oops, caused a lot of people out of Money today, honey. What's for breakfast? What's for dinner?

• 1:41:30Speaker 01

  It's weird, but if you're really in a corporate setting where you get to truly, truly help people and you get to make some money off it, man, it's just like unbeatable.

• 1:41:37Codie Sanchez?

  It's the best thing ever. Plus, there's like no, I mean, I think physical fitness is one way for you to become a better human and actually see like Michelangelo getting carved from the marble physically.

• 1:41:47Speaker 01

  I see you've been looking at my body.

• 1:41:49Codie Sanchez?

  That's right.

• 1:41:49Speaker 01

  My word.

• 1:41:50Codie Sanchez?

  You're pretty big. I think you're bigger than Michelangelo.

• 1:41:52Speaker 01

  I'm like Michelangelo.

• 1:41:54Codie Sanchez?

  You're hairier, too.

• 1:41:55Speaker 01

  If Da Vinci was on like acid, a very bad trip.

• 1:42:00Codie Sanchez?

  But I think you, you know, the other part about business that's fascinating is like it's another amazing way to become a better human. Because where else do you get constant feedback? Do you have other people where you're like rowing in the same direction? Will they actually teach you like for free how to do skills that they have? Because you have incentive alignment, you make money if you're better, they make money if you're better. Like it's a very, it's one of the few things where it's like, oh, everything is aligned for you to become a better person. If you work at a place with with really high skill people.

• 1:42:28Speaker 01

  And you get to help other people at the end of the day. You're not just becoming better for your own ego. It's like, if I get bigger muscles, who gives a shit?

• 1:42:33Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:34Speaker 01

  I care, but nobody else does.

• 1:42:35Codie Sanchez?

  Totally true.

• 1:42:36Speaker 01

  I make a new version of Coca-Cola that's healthier and safer and tastes better.

• 1:42:40Codie Sanchez?

  Everybody's happy, just you.

• 1:42:42Speaker 01

  How dare you?

• 1:42:43Codie Sanchez?

  Okay, I have to ask another question.

• 1:42:46Codie Sanchez?

  I think I am bad at naming things. Contrarian Thinking has like a ton of vowels. Nobody can ever say it when I go on a podcast. They can't spell it. Renaissance Periodization. That is a long ass name.

• 1:42:57Speaker 01

  I don't know how to spell it.

• 1:42:57Codie Sanchez?

  Where did you come up with that? What does it mean?

• 1:43:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:43:01Codie Sanchez?

  Be strength, good, strong.

• 1:43:03Speaker 01

  Yes, that's now our formal corporate entity title.

• 1:43:06Codie Sanchez?

  Can't imagine why.

• 1:43:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, strange times. So there are like sort of three reasons why we named it this.

• 1:43:13Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:14Speaker 01

  One reason is that when Mr. McShaw and I got into the fitness business, there was considerably more like lying, charlatanism, Liver King type of shit. And a lot of just really good people were being scammed and very unscientific times. And we kind of to want to contribute to a renaissance, a rebirth of science and fitness. Periodization is the science of making people better at sport. And physical things. That's what that word means. Periodization. Yeah, correct. Yeah. It's the science of making better athletes essentially. And so we wanted a Renaissance that addressed that. That's kind of cool. The other reason is the Renaissance historically, in the whatever 15, 1700s, blah, blah, blah. That was kind of like the Dark Ages. So like the Greeks and Romans had some cool shit going, science and hypocrisy and shit like that.

• 1:43:58Speaker 01

  And then like everyone basically was just literally drunk and in some insane religious extremism for like a thousand years. The Dark Ages were kind of bad. Yeah. And the Renaissance was a rebirth of like, hey, like, science exists. Let's look into this again. And it radically just completely revolutionized standards of living. It was just this beautiful thing that happened. And so like, we saw some very small, but nonetheless salient connections to our kind of business model. And probably the biggest reason is there is a hedge fund called Renaissance Technologies. And I didn't know anything about it, but Nick and I trained super wealthy New York people for a while in personal training in New York City. And I was asking them always because I was super big on economics and learning stuff.

• 1:44:39Speaker 01

  And I was asking these people who like ran hedge funds and stuff like really before you met someone who has a net worth of $30 million. It's we you don't know how that's going to interact. And it turns out they're just really cool, normal people. But I asked them like, oh, how did you guys do in the recession? And I would get the same answer a lot. They're like, well, everyone, you know, everyone lost money and you can't do stuff like that unless you're rent tech, unless you're rent tech, unless you're rent tech. I'm like, what the hell is rent tech? And one of my guys who owned his own hedge fund, he's fucking, I don't know, 100 millionaire by now. He's like, look it up. And I looked it up. And so James Simon's the guy who founded Rent Tech. He was like, yeah, like stock picking and guessing is cool, but can't we just use like algorithms and machines and tons of scientists to figure this out?

• 1:45:19Speaker 01

  And he decoded the stock market and the Medallion Fund has a year on year 33% return, which as you know, is fucking insane. And it's just done through like computational modeling. And so that idea that you could just science and math the living shit out of something and help a ton to get clarity on it. We're like, yeah, we're just going to do this to fitness. So we science living shit on fitness. And now we have a team of super highly qualified software engineers, a ton of PhDs, very rent tech like. And they make software. They make our data coach app. They make our hypertrophy app and they make a ton of digital products for us. And these things help people for pennies on the day. And it's like, kind of a really miraculous thing. I'm super proud of, I guess.

• 1:46:00Speaker 01

  But when I found out that Renaissance Technologies was like, yeah, stock picking and guessing is because mostly fitness up until that point had been like, do this, trust me.

• 1:46:08Codie Sanchez?

  Right.

• 1:46:08Speaker 01

  And really this.

• 1:46:09Codie Sanchez?

  Or this worked for me, so for you, which you never do.

• 1:46:12Speaker 01

  Just on vibes, right? Right, because you know.

• 1:46:14Codie Sanchez?

  It's like brat summer fitness.

• 1:46:16Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:46:17Codie Sanchez?

  Uh huh.

• 1:46:17Speaker 01

  And then we have this new way of doing things, which is more science based, more calculation based, more computation based. And the only reason we do that is because it works better. And it's cool vibes because I love all the science shit. I'm a nerd at heart. And so when I realized what Renaissance Technologies was, when we started naming our company, Mr. Nix, Sean and I together, I was like Renaissance Puritization, boom. And on the one hand, it's impossible to say or spell. On the other hand, it kind of sticks with you as a quirky name. They were like, those weird people. Also RP as a, um, a shortening of that, you're like, you can remember RP.

• 1:46:53Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah, that works. Yeah.

• 1:46:55Speaker 01

  And mostly people at the time were naming their companies after themselves and had fitness after themselves and nutrition, like Sanchez Nutrition.

• 1:47:02Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I never wanted to do that. I already think like my face is on the internet too much. I'm sure you feel the same way too. But like, why do you like podcasts? Because I'm not talking though. Like I get to listen to somebody else and you guys don't have to painfully sit through more of me talking. You know what's the other thing that's cool about Renaissance is, um, like to our point on team, that now most of the money is the team's money. And so they, instead of going out and having big, huge GP or LPs, investors, people like, you know, me and you who would give them money. Increasingly, they did so well that they allowed their employees to invest in the employee pool and the GP pool, the owner pool became so high that they're some of the largest investors at Renaissance.

• 1:47:44Codie Sanchez?

  And now it's very hard. If you want Renaissance to take your money, they don't take everybody's money.

• 1:47:48Speaker 01

  There's a reason they don't take everyone's money because the SEC requires more disclosure about processes if you have external investors.

• 1:47:55Codie Sanchez?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:56Speaker 01

  And so if you can't, if you don't have external investors, the SEC is like, whatever you do, what the fuck you want. Because RenTech has insanely proprietary algorithms. Processes, when you get a job there, from what I understand, you sign away a whole hell of a lot of your rights. You're not allowed to talk about shit. And no one's ever leaked. There's been zero leaks about what they do.

• 1:48:11Codie Sanchez?

  It's true, they're very quiet.

• 1:48:12Speaker 01

  Also, the leak would have to be insanely complex of like, most people wouldn't even understand it. Like, oh, here's like the, the, the data dump for the like 10-page algorithm we use. But I don't understand what the fuck that says. Some other finance people could for sure. And I'm sure people are looking all the time, but that's a big reason. It's also really awesome for them, like, can you imagine making so much money? The people are like, do you want external money? And you're like, ah, we're good.

• 1:48:32Codie Sanchez?

  Oh, they'd be amazed.

• 1:48:32Speaker 01

  Holy shit. Yeah, there's, I think there's, um, James Simon's recently deceased, R and P. He died a multi-billionaire. There are countless people at that company that have oodles of, oodles of money that just.

• 1:48:45Speaker 02

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• 1:48:49Speaker 02

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• 1:49:46Codie Sanchez?

  I love it. Okay, I want to close out with one thing. You started a new philosophy channel. You have this giant YouTube channel, you know, millions of followers, millions of followers of, across your social channels. And then you did what, you know, is not that natural, which is you started a philosophy about the mind, health of the mind in some way, instead of health of the body. One thing that I'm obsessing about lately, because I can't quite figure out what's going on, is.

• 1:50:09Codie Sanchez?

  It seems like we're having a little bit of a a mental health tragedy with the youth in this country and particularly young men. And I was looking at your audience demographics. You have a very large population of of young men. Do you do you understand philosophically like what is going on with the youth today? And do you have a take on young men today? How they're thinking and how maybe they could be thinking different if they wanted to change their lives?

• 1:50:34Speaker 01

  Not much.

• 1:50:38Speaker 01

  I the the reason I started the channel at first was because I just saw other people and other news outlets putting out their ideas about what the nature of life was like, the nature of the universe, the purpose of society, consciousness. A lot of stuff about AI. And I just was like, man, there's a lot of people that are wrong and not a lot of people that are right are very well sought after. There's tons of people saying the right stuff, but normally most people just don't listen to them. And so it started for me as a passion project and still is of just like putting my ideas out into long form videos. Because I have some pretty decently organized thoughts about a lot of different stuff.

• 1:51:20Speaker 01

  And I think my take could be comically wrong, but it's often at least somewhat valuable for people to hear. Things like, you know, politics and stuff like that. And what we noticed after a while was the self help advice, which I also like. We did a bunch of different types of videos. Turns out the self help advice and our target that target our actual demographic is mostly young men or mostly men. Those videos seem to do really well. And so I basically had a not a little bit of a turning point on the channel recently where I'm like, fuck, like, all right, we're a men's advice channel. God damn it. And I'm joking about the goddamn apart. It's cool. It was not my intention.

• 1:52:01Codie Sanchez?

  Right.

• 1:52:03Speaker 01

  But we're leaning a little bit more into that. We still have all the other topics to cover on the channel. Because it just seems to be that people want to see it. So to your point of like, we're having this crisis, perhaps. Maybe because a lot of people are looking for kind of advice about how to live life. How to deal with insecurity, how to deal with anxiety, how to plan for the future. Meaning and then things like that. I'm not 100% sure on a few things. One, if there even is a crisis. The ability for media to manufacture a crisis is highly, highly impressive. I'll say something that'll get me a lot of hate from a lot of people. Why not? The COVID vaccine situation was largely uncontroversial.

• 1:52:46Speaker 01

  Insanely effective and saved probably 20 million lives worldwide. But if you look at the news articles, it was like a poison and a conspiracy and Fauci somehow is bad. No, I'm not a huge fan of government overreach. I'm mostly a libertarian in my politics. Maximum freedom in social and economic, I think is wonderful. But it just was never true that the COVID vaccine was actually controversial thing. It was for millions and millions of people with no medical training and no ability to appraise statistics. So it's not necessarily true that we even have a mental health crisis. I haven't myself looked deeply into the data. There are certainly some things that are bad. There are certainly some things that are really good.

• 1:53:30Speaker 01

  Bullying is down by such an insane fraction that back in the seventies and before, we didn't even really measure it. Cause like, you just got that ass beat at school. That's just what happened, right? So a lot of our increasing diagnoses of various mental disorders. This is the first time ever people have the money and time and the wherewithal to give a shit to take their kids to the psychologist. This is before like, back in like, pre 1850, you were possessed by demons or insane. And there was a two diagnostic categories that they used. And then nobody had ADHD. But think about it, of course, almost the same number of people had ADHD back then as do today. You were just considered lazy and dumb.

• 1:54:11Speaker 01

  Or the level of attention we required you to pay at school or whatever was just minor because after three grades of school, you went to the farm and farm work is tractable for people with ADHD. Nobody gives a shit. Another one is people are being asked a lot how they feel nowadays and their calibration for how good they're supposed to feel is increasingly higher and higher. Whereas before, like, you know, like back in the old world, you just have like a grumpy aunt. She's just fucking grumpy. That's just who she was. She was terminally depressed in retrospect, but they didn't do diagnostic criteria. The DSM five wasn't around, that whole thing. Now, there absolutely probably are and could be ground swells of increasing anxiety, increasing depression, so on and so forth, for real, for real.

• 1:54:53Speaker 01

  We need to be really careful how we assess that because a lot of times it's just people paying attention to stuff that they didn't before. Here's an interesting example from physical health. Cancer is on the rise, has been for the last hundred years. And people will be like, dude, what in our food supply or whatever is causing cancer? Turns out, nothing really, not in aggregate. It turns out that people live to older age so much more now that they live long enough to get cancer. How many 30 year olds get cancer? Tragic, insanely rare. The average human lifespan used to be 30 back in the day, up until like 100 years ago. And then it was 45, and then it was 60, and now it's like in the 70s and 80s. Yeah, if you get to your 80s, man, you still alive from not anything else killing you, probably gonna get you a cancer or two. That's why cancer rates are skyrocketing.

• 1:55:38Speaker 01

  So you could be looking at this problem like, oh my God, cancer is eating us all. But in reality, it's actually a side effect of a really beautiful thing that most people get to meet their grandchildren as adults nowadays. That'll be in the case, really big foundation lead for that one. Yeah, there might be a situation where anxiety is increasing. There are some interesting candidate hypotheses that I think at least worth thinking about. One of them is that for more and more people, life is so preposterously easy and lacking in challenge and real fear initiating events that our baseline levels of anxiety have no traction or nowhere to grab on to. And we know that if you put a human being. In a very visually rich environment that generally don't hallucinate. Cause like there's stuff to look at.

• 1:56:22Speaker 01

  If you put someone in an isolation chamber, it's just a matter of time until they hallucinate. And they're seeing shit, but there's nothing there. Because the human visual system is evolved on a baseline of input. And if it doesn't receive it, it's just gonna construct it. Cause it's like, no, no way, I must be misperceived, there must be things here. And so, think about what the baseline human anxiety was through most of human evolution. I mean, like, you step on something wrong, your fingernail comes off, you get infected, half your foot is gone, you die, everyone's crying around you as you die by the fire. Typical Tuesday, saber-toothed tigers were around, we had fucking spears, and that's it. And rudimentary teamwork to try to defend her. Life was absolutely chaos and hell.

• 1:57:03Speaker 01

  Up until multiple industrial revolutions allow us to sit on comfortable chairs with air conditioning, this is all new stuff. But our brains are evolutionarily very old. They're still looking for saber-toothed tigers. If they don't find them, the anxiety is going up. Because here's the thing, after killing a saber-toothed tiger, putting that motherfucker in the fire and ripping steaks off of them eating, you got no worries at all. Because the insanely psychotic event of watching your best friend get mauled by the tiger before you killed him is such a huge up that the down is like heroin relaxation, that's the default. But we don't have any more crazy ups like that. Like, if you go through a super insane episode, near-death experience, it's known that a lot of people who go through near-death experiences have like, a re-clicking of like, they love

• 1:57:47Speaker 01

  life again, everything tastes better, everything looks better. Like, we used to get near-death experiences all the time, and actual death experiences all the time. Now luckily, almost no people die from tragic accidents, et cetera. Saber-toothed tiger's not a problem anymore, although Texas, crazy-ass animals around here, who knows? Because our lives are so easy. I think we're hallucinating anxiety. And that's not to say that it's like hallucination, it's not really there. It's really there in your head, and that's the only thing that matters. So, I think maybe some of the solution to the problem of a lot of anxiety from life being too good, is to make your life focused and purposefully more difficult. You're not gonna get a ton of anxiety if you train like a fucking animal. If your job is physical, or if your job is mental, but you're poring over documents

• 1:58:31Speaker 01

  and details and meetings, you're too fucking busy to be anxious, and you're too drained. And there's lots of fight or flight at work. The third quarter numbers came in, they're not good, the CEO's on the phone, oh, oh, oh, oh. When you get home and you spend time with your kids or whatever on the weekends, you're just, you're just a weed puff, puff smoke away from being just totally zen, because you're getting that chaos somewhere. You don't have to hallucinate it. But as life becomes very easy for all of us, yeah, we might have to lean back into working extra hard or training extra hard. Getting into some crazy jujitsu is a great hobby because people try to kill you for an hour at a time every day. After that, like you walk, people walk out of the jujitsu studio, every single one of them, there's zero fucking anxiety. Because like you just tried to save your life for an hour, you ain't got none left. You're too physically

• 1:59:15Speaker 01

  tired, and you're emotionally so drained, anxiety is just not an option. Many of the people who are anxious are precisely the people from whom life is the easiest. Um, there's not like a crazy anxiety thing in like 50-year-old CEOs, it's not happening. Who's getting anxiety? 14 to 18-year-old teens. Have you ever been around 14, 18-year-old teens nowadays? Everything that could ever want is one click away, and that's it, no problems. Uh, and the problem is like, oh, people on social media didn't follow me when I wanted to follow them. That is not sufficient enough to get you really going, to reduce your anxiety because it's some crazy event. That's a big deal. And I think that until we genetically re-engineer our brains, or pharmacologically take drugs to lower that base rate of anxiety, we're just gonna keep basically looking back into the Pleistocene

• 2:00:00Speaker 01

  era and being like, fuck, fuck, fuck, there's gotta be woolly mammoths coming soon, man. And you're just anxious because everything's too good to continue. Another way to see is this, anytime in evolutionary time, you had a long string of good stuff happen, great harvest, maybe, but this is even farming is the new invention, just you, you found some good, good food, you killed a big mammoth, it's just a matter of time until shit hits the fan again. Winter comes, half your fucking tribe dies. It's a irregular thing, chaos. So now, when people get a really good time going, if that time lasts too long, your internal sensor for, hey, I gotta be aware because shit's gonna get fucked up real soon, starts to go up. And I think that might be a part of anxiety. That's at least one of the more compelling hypotheses I've heard so far.

• 2:00:39Codie Sanchez?

  So good. Mike is retell, Renaissance periodization, nailed it. RP strength, all the socials. And I'm gonna subscribe to the philosophy channel. I love the way your brain works. Thank you so much for being here today.

• 2:00:52Speaker 01

  It's an honor to be here with you. Thank you so much for having me.

• 2:00:55Codie Sanchez?

  You know what I say? I say you should be a G and don't keep this podcast just for a little old me. Please go out there and share this podcast. It's the only way this thing grows is you guys sharing. It's probably the hardest thing we grow right now. So you doing that makes all the difference in the world. Be a little G. Okay, so wrapping this guy up, here's what I want to say. One, if you liked what Mike had to say, go over to Instagram right now because you're gonna die when you see the shorts that we did from this one. There's some, there's some things you will never unsee on Instagram after you go over there from Mike. And that's all the heads up I'm gonna give you. Also, I don't know if you guys know this, but we have a ton of events coming up for next year. I

• 2:01:36Codie Sanchez?

  don't do tours right now. I don't really speak on any more stages after the podcast is launched. I do one thing, and that is I throw big events for you guys. If you want to see those, you can check them out at contrarianthinking.co. You can get on the waitlist for all the events next year. Lastly, if you want to buy a business and you are serious about taking the next step, we have created the Contrarian Academy, which I think is the only place in the world that is focused on people buying Main Street businesses every single day with hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue bought and thousands of business owners doing it live. If you are interested in that, in the link below, we have to make sure that it's the right fit for you and the right fit for us. So fill out the form. You can talk to one of our M&A specialists about, is this the right fit for you? And if not, we'll steer you somewhere else. If you're not the right fit for the

• 2:02:21Codie Sanchez?

  Academy or the community, then perhaps it is for one of our curriculum or for some of the free things that we offer at Contrarian Thinking too. And then, of course, I don't want to forget, if you guys haven't picked up the book, Main Street Millionaire, you can go to msmbook.com. We got a bunch of cool things coming for those of you guys who want to become owners. All right, until next time, this is For the Owners. See you next week on the Big Deal Podcast.