Making Money 7 Different Ways on Each Property (Without Even Owning It!)

This investor makes six figures in profit without putting a single dollar into her real estate deals. Using a new real estate investing “model,” Chauncey Pham has cracked the code to make as much profit as possible from a single property. It’s so genius, we’re surprised no one has come up with it before, but today we’re sharing it with you. Chauncey has always been good at sales—clearly, when she replaced her W-2 income in the first three months of being a real estate agent. She saw her investor clients making money hand over fist, and thought, “If they can do it, why can’t I?” So her husband quit to help her try flipping houses. The first deal netted a $60K profit. That was it. It was time to go all-in. But then Chauncey realized something crucial. In every house flip, dozens of people are getting paid. The buyer’s agent, the seller’s agent, the lenders, the contractors, the stagers, and the title company. This was six figures in expenses that she could be collecting. So, she created a new “model,” what she calls “turnkey house flipping,” that allows her to make six figures without putting a dollar into the deal. This is exactly how she does it. In This Episode We Cover How to make six figures with zero dollars invested in your real estate deals (Chauncey’s investing “model”) Why Chauncey thinks every investor should heavily consider becoming a real estate agent The perfect seller script when buying off-market real estate deals (real example) Chauncey’s exact house flipping numbers and how much she makes off of each deal Investors: you need to understand this before you talk to an agent (crucial!) And So Much More! Check out more resources from this show on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠BiggerPockets.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠h⁠ttps://www.biggerpockets.com/blog/real-estate-1256 Interested in learning more about today’s sponsors or becoming a BiggerPockets partner yourself? Email ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Henry Washington?

  She makes money seven different ways on every real estate deal and never even owns the property. Most real estate investors think in deals. They think buy a property, renovate it, sell it or rent it out. One revenue stream per house. In 2022, Chauncey was flipping houses and accumulating rentals, doing 20 deals per year. To make more money, she needed more capital and more contractors and more tenants, and that means more headaches. So she built an entirely new model. Now she runs a vertically integrated real estate operation. Her clients put up the capital and they keep the profits, but Chauncey takes a cut at every stage of the project, which can often even be more profitable without all of the risk. This business gives Chauncey a unique view of the entire real estate investing

• 0:45Henry Washington?

  ecosystem. Today, she's sharing the lessons she's learned from this rare real estate perspective.

• 0:56Henry Washington?

  What's going on everybody? I'm Henry Washington. Oh, yeah, and Dave's here too. What's up, Dave?

• 1:01Dave Meyer?

  Don't sound so disappointed.

• 1:05Dave Meyer?

  I'm excited to be here. This is gonna be a fun conversation with Chauncey today.

• 1:09Henry Washington?

  Yes, I'm super excited too. And honestly, there's probably a lot of real estate investors out there who have the skills and resources to do something like this, and they probably just haven't done it. Today, we're talking with Chauncey Pham, an investor in the Dallas market, and we're talking about building wealth through real estate ecosystems, not just properties. Chauncey's gonna show you how to think about real estate as a business with multiple revenue streams, how to source deals creatively without relying on wholesalers, and which pieces of the process you can start monetizing today, whether you're flipping, buying rentals, or doing any other strategy. So let's bring her on. Chauncey, welcome to the BiggerPockets Podcast.

• 1:46Speaker 02

  Hi, thanks guys for having me on.

• 1:48Henry Washington?

  Let's start this off the same way we start off every show. Why don't you tell us a little bit about your background and what you were doing prior to real estate?

• 1:54Speaker 02

  Um, so my background is hardcore one call close type sales. And then I end up transitioning into a marketing role. I was an account executive for a marketing firm. Where I worked with a lot of C stores and fashion chains, so BCBG, BB, Circle K. And I essentially was the liaison between their marketing departments and my company who actually created all of their point of purchase marketing. And so it was really, really cool because I learned the psychology behind marketing in that role. And while I had that job, um, my husband and I end up buying and selling a couple of primary residences. And our loan officer was like, you'd be really freaking good if you got your real estate license. So I got my license, but I legit got my real estate license because I wanted us to go to Disney World

• 2:39Speaker 02

  and ball out with the VIP passes and

• 2:43Speaker 02

  that's why I got my real estate license.

• 2:45Dave Meyer?

  So you're like, if I sell one house, then I could go to Disney World?

• 2:49Speaker 02

  I can go to Disney World and ball out. And so that's why I got my license. But because I had the sales background and the marketing background, within three months of getting in the business, I'd made my entire annual salary in commissions. And so I quit my job and it was off to the races from there.

• 3:03Henry Washington?

  So what year was this when you got your license and then decided to do your actual first real estate deal?

• 3:10Speaker 02

  So I got my real estate license in 2016 and I just was a traditional realtor from 2016 until I picked up my first, um, investment deal in 2019. So after a year of having my brokerage, which by the way, the root word of brokerage is broke. And that's what the hell I was for the whole year and a half. Because realtors don't sell anything. Okay. Let's just, 90% of them don't sell nothing. And so, um, I essentially then moved my brokerage, shut it down and went over to, uh, the national brokerage that I'm with now and became the top recruiter within the first year that I was there. Brought 400 agents underneath me in that first year, was making money off of all of their sales, which then allowed me to get out and start investing. So I started doing that in 2019.

• 3:55Dave Meyer?

  Chauncey, we get this question a lot about becoming a broker, real estate agent, before becoming a real estate investor or in tandem with becoming a real estate investor. So what is your advice to people who are considering that path?

• 4:09Speaker 02

  I 100% attribute my successes and my mindset in being an investor to the fact that I was a realtor first. Really? 100%. And I would recommend to anyone that wants to be an investor to at least explore getting their real estate license, not so that they can go and sell houses, but so that they can understand the basics of the real estate transaction from the consumer perspective. Because when I started flipping, I knew what it was like to take a buyer to see eight, 10 houses in a day. And at the end of the day, ask them which one they want to put an offer on and how 90% of them were completely forgotten because they were all just white, gray, same floors, same trim, same thing. Yeah. It's all the same thing. They didn't remember any of them.

• 4:54Speaker 02

  And I, I knew what made them tick emotionally. So I always said, if I start flipping, I've got to find a way to be strategic in, in creating a product that's going to be memorable for clients and be something that people actually seek out. And 100%, that is what has set me apart from everyone else that's in my market.

• 5:12Henry Washington?

  I don't 100% agree with you on the getting your real estate license first thing, but I totally, but I totally understand that perspective. And I like the perspective of like, understanding both sides of the transaction because you're absolutely right. A lot of investors purely numbers focused. The amount of times I've heard flippers say, just get a spec sheet and flip the same house to the same spec sheet, same color, same finishes, because it's better for business, drives me up a wall. Every house we do is about what we think the buyer in that neighborhood or that particular market wants. And that's what's going to help your houses sell faster. So that perspective on why you should get your real estate license, I think is a pretty cool and unique perspective.

• 5:55Henry Washington?

  And I, and I agree with you. Investors need to learn more about what your customers want. And sure, there's probably some happy medium between like systems, processes and repeatability. And then still having some form of individuality, but you've got to do it properly.

• 6:13Speaker 02

  Correct, correct.

• 6:14Henry Washington?

  I'm assuming as you were doing these real estate transactions as a as an agent, you were like, hey, these investors seem to be making some money. How are they doing this? Like, what made you decide I'm gonna take the risk and do my own real estate deal? Because it sounds like you were killing it as an agent, right?

• 6:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, so so what made me kind of pivot from just being an agent to an investor is I had an investor client. Um, he reached out to me. He had um, a flip that was in the neighborhood that I'd sold quite a few listings and was like, hey, can you just go and give me some feedback on this property? Um, it's been sitting on the market and I get any showings, let me know. So I uh, went, called him the next day and I said, you know, here's my advice. Here's what's going on. He called me then the next day and said, all right, I I've got good news and I got bad news. The good news is I don't have to deal with the realtor that had my house listed. Uh, and the bad news is uh, I don't have to deal with her anymore because I fired her. And if you don't take my listing on, then I'm screwed because all my money's in this house. And so I took his listing on and I sold it the very next week over asking.

• 7:12Speaker 02

  And from that point on, I became his, his agent. So I helped him with acquisitions. I helped him on the consulting side and and then when his uh, flips would go on the uh, be they're ready to go on the market, I actually, you know, listed the properties. And I would see every single time that we went to the closing table, how much money he was making versus like what my mission was. And I also learned his process. He have one. He didn't have a duplicatable process. He he literally just was like luck, deals were falling into his lap and then he would get it and take it down. And and when I would ask him, what was what's your process of getting these houses? What? He had zero processes. And so for me, I said, if this guy can do it and he's making this money, then I definitely can create a duplicatable process and system.

• 7:58Speaker 02

  And plus, all of these flips are kind of ugly. So I can, I can do it and I can do it better. And and so I actually talked to my husband, who was basically a C-suite executive. He was our breadwinner, right? Like, I was making great money, but he has the insurance. He got the job. And I'm like, babe, quit your job. And join me in real estate. And you can open our investing side. And he was like, all right, bet. And, and he did.

• 8:25Dave Meyer?

  Really?

• 8:26Speaker 02

  And he did.

• 8:27Dave Meyer?

  That's it? Just like that?

• 8:28Speaker 02

  Literally, it took him a couple of months. He's a sales expert.

• 8:31Dave Meyer?

  Yeah.

• 8:32Speaker 02

  Do what to say to him.

• 8:33Dave Meyer?

  Yeah. He didn't even know it was coming.

• 8:35Speaker 02

  And he's a sales guy, too. So we always argue about who's the best closer. And I'm like, who's the best closer now? Um, and so, yeah, I got him to quit the job and he started our investment company in November of 2018 and January 2019, we had our first deal.

• 8:51Henry Washington?

  All right, we've got to take a quick break. But when we come back, we'll hear more from Chauncey right after this.

• 8:56Dave Meyer?

  As a host, the last thing I want to do or have time for is to play accountant and banker. But that's what I was doing every weekend, flipping between a bunch of apps, bank statements and receipts, trying to sort it all by property and figure out if I was actually making any money. Then I found Baseline and it takes all of that off my plate. It's BiggerPockets' official banking platform that automatically sorts my transactions, matches receipts and shows me my cash flow for every property. My tax prep is done and my weekends are mine again. Plus, I'm saving a ton of money on banking fees and apps that I just don't need anymore. Get a $100 bonus when you sign up today at baseline.com/bp.

• 9:40Dave Meyer?

  BiggerPockets Pro members also get a free upgrade to Baseline Smart that's packed with advanced automations and features to save you even more time. Some listeners may wonder why their insurance quote only took 30 seconds. Some listeners may wonder why their insurance quote took 30 seconds. A better question is, how long will that policy actually hold up when you need it? At Enreg, the goal isn't just getting coverage in place. It's making sure your investment property is properly protected when a real claim happens. That's why they take time to evaluate each property's unique risks and build coverage design for the realities investors face.

• 10:22Dave Meyer?

  Because anyone can sell a policy, Enreg focuses on selling. Standing behind it. Visit n r e i g dot com slash B P L L C to learn more. Most deals don't fall apart because of the numbers. They fall apart because of the financing. You find a property that cash flows. The deal makes sense, but then the lender looks at your personal income, your tax returns, your debt to income ratio. And suddenly the deal doesn't qualify. That's the disconnect because as investors, we're not buying based on our W two. We're buying based on the asset. That's why Host Financial offers D S C R loans designed for real estate investors, where qualification is based primarily on the property's income,

• 11:07Dave Meyer?

  not your personal finances. So no W two's, no tax returns and no D T I requirements. And with loan to value options up to 80 or even 85% on eligible deals, you can keep more capital available as you grow. If you're buying rentals, refinancing or scaling your portfolio, go to hostfinancial.com. That's H O S T financial dot com and see what you qualify for.

• 11:32Henry Washington?

  Here's a strategy that most W two employees have never heard of. Normally, if you want to write off a rental property against your regular income, you need real estate professional status. That means tracking hundreds of hours a year. Rent to Retirement just launched a program that skips all of that. It's called the S T R loophole tenant placement program. Here's how it works. You buy one of Rent to Retirement's Class A new construction investment properties. You set up an Airbnb listing and self manage it for the remainder of the year. Rent to Retirement then rents the home as a short term rental to establish it as an S T R for the year. No furnishing required, making this the easy button to save five or six figures in taxes this year.

• 12:14Henry Washington?

  And because you're the sole manager, there's no hourly minimum to meet. That lets you use a cost segregation study to accelerate the depreciation and potentially write off over $100,000 against your income. Even on your first rental, add in cash back up to 13% of the home price, which exceeds $60,000 on some properties with this massive cash. Cash back incentives, investors are seeing total returns up to 126%. New construction, A-class properties and inventory is limited. Learn more at biggerpockets.com/retirement or text REI to 33777. Again, text REI to 33777.

• 12:57Speaker 03

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• 13:30Henry Washington?

  All right, we're back with Chauncey Pham, talking about vertically integrating your real estate business. Let's get back to it.

• 13:36Dave Meyer?

  So what did that first deal look like?

• 13:38Speaker 02

  This particular property, we went out and walked it. And long story short, we were able to pick it up for $125,000. The lady just wanted enough to pay it off and have a little bit of money to walk away. We bought it for 125. There was nothing wrong with the house. We were going to put about 20 grand into it and sell it at like the 215 mark. But instead I threw it on the MLS in coming soon and had an investor that was looking for rentals in the neighborhood. Put it in for coming soon at 192, went under contract, sold it two weeks later at 186 and did absolutely nothing to it. So it was basically a wholesale deal and I was able to take that 60,000 and then we just kind of kept rolling from there.

• 14:17Dave Meyer?

  Obviously that sounds incredible, Chauncey. People are probably wondering like, is that possible? Is it possible anymore? Or is that kind of like, that kind of deal a relic of a different time in the market?

• 14:28Speaker 02

  I don't think that her situation was unique. The way that we were able to capitalize on that was she had previously had the house on the market with a realtor and it had gone under contract. And, and when it had gone under contract, the title company popped up with a lien and it was a consumer debt lien. And so when we talked to her, she was like, last year tried to sell my house, but this lien is on here. If you guys can just get this lien gone and just get, get me this much money in my pocket, like you can have the house. And so I think that what was unique about that situation wasn't necessarily unique. It was the fact that we understood how to, how to solve a problem.

• 15:03Henry Washington?

  Yeah.

• 15:04Speaker 02

  And so are those types of deals still out there where you just need to be a problem solver? Yes.

• 15:08Henry Washington?

  Yes.

• 15:08Speaker 02

  All day long, that's what all of them are. Um, and I just think that far too many people are in the game and they're not looking at themselves as problem solvers. Rather, they're, they're going in with kind of a one trick pony. Cause even when we went to her, it was, it was not, let me just buy your house. It was, I can buy your house. I can list your house because I'm a licensed realtor. That's another reason you should probably get a real estate license. Um, I can, can renovate it if you want. And then, and you know, take, take the cost of the renovation, just put a lien on it. And then we can sell it on the market, whichever solution is best for you. Um, and so I, I definitely think those deals are out here.

• 15:42Henry Washington?

  Yeah, those deals definitely exist. I have one under contract right now that we're, I think we're paying one eighty. It doesn't need any work. We're gonna clean it up, throw it back on the market for two fifty. It's the situation that's causing us, you know, it's called, the lady is, is, is about to lose it in foreclosure. And so we're gonna buy it. She's gonna make some money instead of just losing it.

• 16:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:00Henry Washington?

  And then we're gonna turn it into, the house was built like three years ago. So it's, it's about looking for situations, right? Chauncey, can we play a game?

• 16:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:10Henry Washington?

  I'm gonna put your skills to the test.

• 16:11Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 16:12Henry Washington?

  We're gonna role play. I'm gonna be a seller.

• 16:15Dave Meyer?

  I like that.

• 16:16Henry Washington?

  So I filled out your website. I have a house on one, two, three Main Street. You get the lead and you're calling me and we, I answer the phone and what do we say? What do we do?

• 16:24Speaker 02

  Hey there, Henry, how are you?

• 16:26Henry Washington?

  Oh, I'm doing great. How about you?

• 16:27Speaker 02

  I'm doing pretty good. Hey, you're the owner, right? Over at one, two, three Main Street?

• 16:30Henry Washington?

  Yes, I am, absolutely.

• 16:32Speaker 02

  All right, cool. Well, I got your information from my website. It looks like you are looking to sell this thing really quickly. So tell me this, before we even get into the conversation, if I could wave a magic wand for you, get this thing sold exactly the way that you want to, how does the situation play out in your head?

• 16:47Henry Washington?

  Uh, I, uh, I would love to get it sold and get it sold quickly. Cause I really need to unload this property so I can get the money I need to move on to my next property.

• 16:56Speaker 02

  Okay, so, so number one, um, how much money do you need to move on to your next property? And number two, why do you need to sell so urgently?

• 17:03Henry Washington?

  Yeah, I need to sell urgently because I found a house that I really want to buy. And this one has too much work that it needs for me to get done. So I'm, I, I just need it. I just need out.

• 17:13Speaker 02

  Okay, so you, you need out. Um, and how quickly are you looking to close?

• 17:17Henry Washington?

  At least thirty days or less. If you can go faster, that'd be great.

• 17:19Speaker 02

  Okay, awesome. And so then at that point, I would typically do some sort of analysis with them and start pulling up, you know, the comps on the property. And, and at that point, I, I would start really poking the bear at the pain, right? So, um, I would ask them to send me any pictures or possibly FaceTime me. Let's do a quick video walkthrough of the property. Um, so then I can compare it to what's on the market. And this way, this can expedite me getting an offer. I don't even need to come out to the house. FaceTime me real quick, get me on Zoom. Let's walk through it right now. I can get you an offer right now on the phone. Um, and, and I'm going to also, at that same time, pull up some other properties and have him pull it up and acknowledge the fact that his property is nowhere close to those. So that when I come with my low ass number, he's not offended.

• 18:04Speaker 02

  You understand, your house doesn't look like one, two, four Main Street. That's right up the street. This one, look, this one has granite countertops. We just walked through yours, asked for Mica, and, and I'm gonna have to replace all of that, right? You understand that? And so I typically walk them through all of that. And then I'll even normally ask them a question. So, so Henry, based on these houses that I just showed you, how much money would you personally think needs to be put into your house to get it up to that level?

• 18:26Henry Washington?

  Ah, I love this question because I do it all the time. I would say somewhere between twenty-five and thirty thousand dollars, which in seller talk means what to a, to an investor?

• 18:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, now Henry, who, how, how are we gonna get twenty-five, thirty-five thousand dollars done on that? You, you think I'm doing the work or I'm gonna hire someone? I have to hire someone, right? So that's, that's not gonna work. Realistically, this is looking like about a hundred thousand dollars that I'm gonna have to put into it. So, so let's back these numbers out. So you, you wanna walk away with X, Y, Z. And, and in order to do that, I would have to give you this number. But if I tack a hundred thousand dollars on top of it, when I turn around to sell it, I don't have any money. So let's, let's work out something that's fair. Does that, does that work? If I can solve your problem in the timeframe that you need it solved, but I'm also solving a problem for myself, like, let's, let's make some shake. And that's typically how I level with them.

• 19:15Henry Washington?

  That's and that's that's the investor standpoint. Now, when you make those offers, are you also offering them a solution where you're the agent?

• 19:22Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 19:23Henry Washington?

  At the same time?

• 19:23Speaker 02

  So typically, if they are offended by the investor offer.

• 19:29Henry Washington?

  When?

• 19:30Speaker 02

  Look, look, you you you don't get both at the same time. You don't you can't be out of time and want more money. Okay, so so if you want to tell me right now that you're not out of time, then I have another solution for you. And that solution is we can come in, we can maybe do a little bit of work on the property for you. I own my own construction company, so I can come in, I can do the work for you. We can get paid on the back end, so we can work out a deal that way. I'll list it for you. I'll control that part of the transaction for you. Make sure that your fees and all of that are really good on that end. We'll take care of the construction for you, and then we get it sold and get you that higher number. But it's going to take a little bit more time. So which one do you want? Want time? You want money?

• 20:06Henry Washington?

  I love it. I love it. I I I do a version of the same thing, but I what you were what you were essentially doing when you asked me what I wanted was you were trying to figure out which solution makes the most sense.

• 20:17Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 20:17Henry Washington?

  Right? If you're saying if you're saying you need to move quickly, then you're thinking as an investor. And if you're saying I have all the time in the world and my house looks and my house is in great shape, then you have an option as an agent to list that property. And I think that that's what investors need to learn is like your job isn't to sign your contract on your next deal.

• 20:37Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 20:37Henry Washington?

  Your job is to figure out what does that seller need? What do they really need?

• 20:43Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 20:43Henry Washington?

  They're obviously going to hold something back, right? Because they they think they think that we're here to to swindle them and get this this best deal possible, right? And so they're holding these cards close to their chest. But as you ask questions, you can start to figure that out, and you can start to present a solution that actually works for them. And I think what you're saying is, as a licensed agent, I now have more options to help somebody than somebody who is not a licensed agent.

• 21:10Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 21:10Henry Washington?

  Because all they can do is make a cash offer or maybe do something from a creative financing aspect.

• 21:15Speaker 02

  And that's it.

• 21:15Henry Washington?

  But they can't list a property and they can't do some of these other things. And so I do think that licensed agents have a superpower, but I don't know that they all know how to use it.

• 21:26Henry Washington?

  So you did your first flip. About how many flips did you do in a given year? And for how long did that last?

• 21:32Speaker 02

  Um, so our first year, 2019, we did exactly 10 flips. Wow. Yeah, so we did 10 our very first year. So that $60,000 um kind of gave us a little confidence, you know? Um, and we we built a little process out and um then we bought our our second property. Um, and then after the second one, we had the opportunity to pick up three more. So so we were running four at a time right after our first one. Um, and so by June of that year, because we picked up our first in January, by June, we'd completed like five or six. And then it kind of kept snowballing from there um until our highest year, we did 21.

• 22:11Dave Meyer?

  Oh, my God, that just gives me so much anxiety. I can't even think about that. But it's awesome. I mean, it's incredible. But can you tell us a little bit about them, Chauncey? Like, how much were these deals? What were you paying for them? How how were you financing them? And how big of the renovation were you doing? Because you're doing so much volume.

• 22:30Speaker 02

  When we first started, we were buying in the the high ones, low twos. Um, and then we were doing around like $60,000 renovations and selling in the the mid threes to high threes. Um, we continued to progress and obviously here in the Dallas Fort Worth area.

• 22:46Henry Washington?

  So did the prices.

• 22:49Speaker 02

  I mean, that doesn't exist anymore. Um, and so now we're acquiring pretty much all across the board. But I would say that our sweet spot is acquiring somewhere in the threes. Um, doing around $150,000 renovation and selling in, you know, sevens, high sixes or sevens.

• 23:07Dave Meyer?

  Wow.

• 23:07Speaker 02

  Um, like one deal that I just completed, we were able to pick it up at 405. We did $190,000 or so renovation and it sold at 860.

• 23:18Dave Meyer?

  Wow, amazing.

• 23:19Henry Washington?

  So those numbers, the original numbers, the purchasing the ones, renovate for about 50 to 60, selling the threes. That's about what my market is now. And you seems like you're you're focused more on a higher price point purchase. Is that? The same home that you were buying when prices were different? Or are you specifically looking for a higher end type of deal?

• 23:44Speaker 02

  So our goal is not necessarily to to buy a house at a particular price point. We always like to look for houses that are standouts that when on the market, they have something cool or quirky about them. So whether it's the layout, it's something architectural about them, it's the lot. Um, and it just always tends to be around that price point. But realistically, the specs of the homes that we're buying right now are about the same as they were when we first started back in 2019. The prices are just so much more expensive.

• 24:09Dave Meyer?

  I I like this approach. I just have to say, I think I I like the idea of looking for something different. In my opinion, though, like, there is a part where it goes too far, right? Like, how quirky are we talking?

• 24:19Speaker 02

  Nothing crazy. Um, but I just refuse to do just standard gray or white walls with floor. Like, I just, I need something interesting. We go for large skylights, cool entrances, you know, funny, you know, layouts. We do a lot of, you know, sunken living rooms, a lot of

• 24:38Dave Meyer?

  Very 70s, yeah.

• 24:39Speaker 02

  Yes, yes. And and we keep those elements where most flippers would go in and probably try to make everything, you know, look like everything else on the market. We find the houses with old character and we try to preserve it.

• 24:51Dave Meyer?

  I assume it limits a little bit who you sell to. But are those people more interested then? Like, you get people who are like really passionate about the homes because there's something that they get attached to.

• 25:02Speaker 02

  Yes, correct. So so essentially, um, my marketing background, um, even, you know, just doing marketing online, will tell you that your job as a marketer is to create an offer that's so irresistible that the consumer can't not buy. They feel stupid for not buying it, right? And and to almost create raving fans to your product. And that's kind of the approach that we take. And so, yeah, we we are normally getting multiple offers, but we're not getting 15. We may get three or four, but those three or four people that want the house and the one that ultimately ends up going under contract will do anything to make sure that they stay under contract because they know they can't find another product like ours.

• 25:42Dave Meyer?

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• 26:23Dave Meyer?

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• 27:32Henry Washington?

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• 27:48Dave Meyer?

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• 28:29Dave Meyer?

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• 30:27Dave Meyer?

  Welcome back to the BiggerPockets Podcast. Let's jump back in with Chauncey Fan. So you've talked a lot about flipping, but have you ever thought about doing rental properties or any other strategies alongside flipping?

• 30:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, we have some rentals out in East Texas. So we have a portfolio of 17 rentals in East Texas. But what I found here in Texas is that it's very difficult to cash flow anything in the Dallas Fort Worth market, simply because taxes and insurance is so expensive on top of the acquisition cost. So the market that we're in is like Texarkana, Tyler, Longview. I'm actually from Texarkana. So you're able to buy properties there for really cheap. A lot of people rent forever there and you'll get, you know, good cash flow, $500, $700 a month. But the problem is the value of those houses, they don't increase. So, you know, you're cash flowing, but if you go to sell it 10 years later, you're

• 31:20Speaker 02

  lucky if, you know, the value has gone up $20,000 or so. So I'm not really hardcore interested in the building of rentals. We really like to leverage doing things that get us a lot of capital in hand and then taking that and kind of, you know, investing in other outlets.

• 31:40Henry Washington?

  So it sounds like you used your market expertise kind of as an agent to understand where I can buy for cash flow and where I can buy to increase my return so that you can strategically buy rental properties. But it sounds like the flipping business is what's really generating the income. But the market changed, the price points shifted, and that means risk shifted. Is there anything else that you? Did do or have done to help you mitigate the risk and the change of the market that that has happened over the 2025, 2026 market because a lot of people fell on their face in 2025. So how are you staying profitable?

• 32:22Speaker 02

  Absolutely. So really excited about this new kind of model that we built out and it's our turnkey model where we essentially are operators. So instead of going in and actually owning the properties, we have clients that are liquid, typically at least $150,000 or so. And they are interested in getting a return on their money through flipping, but they don't have anything except for the money. And instead of doing what a typical flipper would do, which is take their money and then go and buy a flip and then give them a fixed return on it. Instead, we're actually, we've built out all of the verticals around flipping houses. So you've got to find it, you've got to fund it, you've got to fix it, you've got to furnish it, and then

• 33:04Speaker 02

  you've got to flip it, right? So I own all of those parts of the transaction. So we're sourcing the deals. We are the lender. We broker out money and then we have our own commercial line of credit that we loan out. We own the construction company. I have the staging inventory. I, because of the real estate brokerage that I went to, I have, you know, hundreds of agents underneath me. So we're listing the property. So essentially, we're able to go to our clients and say, hey, I've got this house. I've got it for, you know, you can pick it up for $200,000. Here's the scope of work. It's going to cost approximately XYZ. It's accurate because I'm, I own that part of the process. Here's the design, you know, here's everything that has to do with it. Here's the

• 33:45Speaker 02

  average days on market. Here's the ARV. And so your potential profit when it sells will be XYZ. Do you want to take it down or not? And if so, then we start that process and I'm making money in every single one of the steps of that process that that person would have otherwise had to gone out, find a house, get a lender, find a GC, hire a designer, hire a staging company, find a Realtor. I'm all of those things for them and I'm able to make six figures on each deal with zero money out of my pocket. And so I'm leveraging my skill set in house flipping to have now become an operator and built out a highly profitable business without me having to technically own that the asset.

• 34:30Dave Meyer?

  I mean, that that sounds incredible, both from a your perspective, but also from a flipper, if you're not a professional at this, it sounds like you're offering a lot. But if you're making six figures, what are the margins for the flipper?

• 34:42Speaker 02

  Um, it depends, but I mean, they're they're typically making twenty, twenty percent, twenty five percent, somewhere in there.

• 34:48Dave Meyer?

  Okay, and but are they like running the project or they doing?

• 34:51Speaker 02

  No, they do nothing. They're completely hands off.

• 34:54Dave Meyer?

  They do nothing?

• 34:54Speaker 02

  They do nothing.

• 34:55Dave Meyer?

  Okay.

• 34:56Speaker 02

  They do absolutely nothing, except for sign on the dotted line and acquire the property and sign when it closes.

• 35:02Henry Washington?

  So you're not worried about making money as the investor, you're worried about your company's making money all along the way, is that?

• 35:08Speaker 02

  Correct, correct.

• 35:09Henry Washington?

  Okay, so walk me through kind of what that looks like from an investor's standpoint. So what's a typical deal look like for you as the business owners and the investor?

• 35:19Speaker 02

  They all look different because I own the different pieces of the process. There's no set fee for each part, if that makes sense. Um, so some houses, if if I'm able to acquire it really low, then I can front load it and I can make more money on the acquisition. So if I'm able to acquire a property that's worth three hundred and fifty thousand for eighty five thousand, then obviously I can offload that to my client at maybe a one fifty. So now I've made a big chunk on the front end, right? Versus a house that, you know, I'm I'm not necessarily acquiring really, really low, but I know it it has extensive construction, then I can can ultimately structure the deal where I'm making more money on the construction side or, you know, in the design.

• 36:01Speaker 02

  So so there's no set numbers. We underwrite them differently. Every single house is completely different, but our goal is to make sure that our turnkey clients are coming back. So our goal is to make sure that they're making money. And so I'm going to structure the deal in a way that every time they're getting more money than they would in any other way in, in, you know, putting their money in the market in any way. And so as long as I can do that and they're not doing anything and they can call themselves a house flipper, they get the ego of being able to say, I'm an investor with, with being hands off, but then getting a 20, 25, sometimes up to 35% return on it, then they're happy as clams.

• 36:39Dave Meyer?

  I'm just trying to understand the risk reward profile here because it's like other turnkey properties, right? Like normally, you know, if you go and buy a turnkey rental property, you're giving up some of your upside to lower your overall risk.

• 36:52Speaker 02

  Right.

• 36:52Dave Meyer?

  And that's kind of what this seems like. You're giving up some of your upside in a flip to lower your overall risk. So I'm just trying to understand what the risks are for the flipper. They're owning the property. They're still liable for, for cost overruns. So those are important considerations for people who would consider this model.

• 37:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, absolutely. But, but, but the cost overruns aren't the, we went over and you just have to pay it. It's, this is a decision that as a real estate investor, you need to make. And, and ultimately when we are underwriting these, these properties, we are extremely conservative with our numbers. So we are calculating everything as if everything has to get fixed. We're talking all of the MEPs, everything cosmetic. So if there happens to be an overrun, then that's typically because we've seen some sort of upside. So the house across the street just went on the market and it has an extra bedroom and we have the opportunity to convert a space here to a bedroom if you want to achieve that number. So then, then at that point you

• 37:51Speaker 02

  get to make that decision. It's not just an arbitrary, sorry, we went over, you gotta pay this extra money in construction. Like it, it's, it's not that type of thing. So they get what the full scope of work is before they even make the decision to acquire the property and they know what all of that looks like.

• 38:06Henry Washington?

  And it sounds funny, but like you said, I'm making more than them, but you're making more than them across several different businesses.

• 38:13Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 38:14Henry Washington?

  And this is all money that an investor pays to other companies.

• 38:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 38:17Henry Washington?

  Anyway, like this is what I do anyway. Like everybody always makes more money than me. It's just what I get to walk away at the end of the day. I pay my contractors. I pay the title companies. I pay the real estate agents. I pay the project managers and then I get to keep what's left. The process doesn't change. It's just that in this particular niche, in this particular market, you own all these businesses. So you're mitigating your risk by taking your profit margins through your companies and not having to own the real estate asset. And you're still making money flipping houses. You're just not the one owning the asset. And you get to offer essentially a turnkey product to your seller. That's a pretty cool perspective.

• 39:02Henry Washington?

  Vertical integration is, I think, important to most businesses, but it's an intimidating thing to take on. Like, how did you take that bite of the elephant to where you started to own different

• 39:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 39:14Henry Washington?

  parts of the process that weren't the typical buy the house, renovate the house?

• 39:18Speaker 02

  Yeah. So it actually started with this mastermind that I'd gone to for real estate. And they had us do this exercise where we wrote the word Realtor in the middle, circled it. And then we had to come up with who all in a transaction made, made money. And at the end of the day, I think we came up with like 45 different people in a real estate transaction, make money from something out of Realtor rings. So then when we found ourselves on a television show flipping houses and getting more and more demand for needing to get more houses, we were like, man, I don't really want to buy more houses. How can we leverage what we know? How can we? And I just had this thought and I told my husband, I'm like, we did this exercise when I was a Realtor. Let's see all of the different parts of flipping a house. How many people are making money off of that?

• 40:03Speaker 02

  And instead of, you know, us going out and always buying more houses, why can't we just leverage our skillset in this and leverage our expertise and make money off of all of the different parts? Because ultimately that's what People have the most problems with is implementation. So if I can implement things for people that I've already become an expert at and I can just make money, then then that's how I'll do it. So it really was kind of born from, again, this idea that I learned being a realtor. And then out of necessity of, you know, just continuing to to need to buy more houses um on the television show. And right at the tail end um of that, and I'm like, I'm tired of having to buy more houses.

• 40:43Speaker 02

  We finished and and wrapped production with the show and we were like, let's try this turnkey thing. Enough people now know us. We have the credibility. We have, you know, the processes built out. And so then we just started doing what we were already doing. So then it was it was pretty simple. We were already sourcing deals, so we just made that a legit process. We already understood hard money lending. So then we looked at what it would take to get a a line of credit that we could loan out and broker for other hard money lenders. We already had our own construction company, so that was already set in stone. But then we, you know, got our tax resale certificate and then we set up accounts with all of the wholesale suppliers for the materials. We then bought, you know, the staging inventory and set that business up.

• 41:26Speaker 02

  So it was things that we were already doing. I think you start to get into the weeds with vertical integration when you're trying to reinvent the wheel. Instead of looking at what you're already doing, who you're paying money to, and then seeing how you can kind of bring that in-house, which is ultimately what we did.

• 41:40Dave Meyer?

  It it makes total sense. I mean, this money is going out. You might as well, you know, get some of it if you have the capacity to do it. It's impressive, super impressive that you're able to run all these businesses. Did you start all of them? Did you acquire them or is all this from scratch?

• 41:56Speaker 02

  No, we started.

• 41:56Dave Meyer?

  Wow, that's awesome.

• 41:57Speaker 02

  We started them all from scratch.

• 41:58Dave Meyer?

  Very cool.

• 41:59Speaker 02

  Just one by one. And and and they're they they're not, you know, running independently. I'm not marketing all of them, so it doesn't.

• 42:06Dave Meyer?

  Right, yeah.

• 42:07Speaker 02

  It doesn't seem daunting.

• 42:08Dave Meyer?

  Like, yeah, it's not like you're you're doing staging for someone else. You do it for yourself. Right, yeah, okay, yeah. That makes total sense. So you're marketing turnkey and then everything else flows from there. Yeah, that makes sense.

• 42:20Speaker 02

  And occasionally, you know, we get the one offs where someone just wants, you know, retail construction job. We'll take it, you know. I I do design jobs for other people, but that's not my focus and that's not what I market. But I do have the ability to do that. So as the market changes. I'm in the position to make money in a ton of different ways when other people aren't.

• 42:38Henry Washington?

  Well, I commend you. You're braver than me because the amount of times I've thought, man, I should just start my own construction company because I'm running all these crews anyway and just haven't pulled the trigger to do it. You are my inspiration that that this is absolutely possible, especially with the level of experience.

• 42:55Speaker 02

  Totally doable, dude. It's so doable. It really is.

• 42:58Henry Washington?

  All right, Chauncey, thank you so much for coming on the BiggerPockets Podcast and sharing a literal wealth of experience. I wish we had more time to be able to dive into all of the things that you have experienced and have experienced in in the real estate world. Thank you so much.

• 43:14Speaker 02

  Thank you for having me, guys.

• 43:15Henry Washington?

  Thanks, Chauncey. Also, guys, if you learned something from this episode, then I recommend you checking out BiggerPockets Podcast, episode 1160. That's back from August 2025, where Dave and I both shared some of our favorite, cheap and easy methods for sourcing great deals. Thank you so much, everybody, for listening to this episode of the BiggerPockets Podcast. We'll see you on the next episode.