Fight For Your Dream Job with Victoria Monét

Grammy-winning artist Victoria Monét joins Michelle and Craig to help a listener who’s falling out of love with her dream job. Victoria talks about the twists and turns it took to set up her own career and how she refused to give up motherhood along the way. She and Craig connect over the embarrassment that can come with telling others about your ambitious goals and how to separate your work identity with your purpose. Have a question you want answered? Write to us at imopod.com http://imopod.com. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  I had a person on my team, though the intentions were good, really, really hurt my feelings because they made a PowerPoint presentation to me about how difficult it will be for me. So how much childcare is, what um.

• 0:17Craig Robinson?

  Wait, this is somebody on your team?

• 0:19Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 0:20Craig Robinson?

  Oh.

• 0:20Speaker 00

  Yeah. And the finale of the presentation was, what's the rush? So it felt like an encouragement to get an abortion.

• 0:37Michelle Obama?

  This episode is brought to you by Pine-Sol and Chase Home Lending. Well, good afternoon.

• 0:45Craig Robinson?

  How are you?

• 0:46Michelle Obama?

  I'm doing great. I'm doing great. The sun is shining. It's spring has arrived here in DC, and this is one of the best times of the year here in the city. So glad to have you here.

• 0:58Craig Robinson?

  You know what I noticed being here? My allergies aren't bothering me.

• 1:03Michelle Obama?

  Well, that's interesting because this is allergy season here. So you must be taking care of yourself. You taking your medicine?

• 1:10Craig Robinson?

  I haven't taken anything. I feel really good. I got a good night's sleep. Walked around the neighborhood a little bit last night after I finally got home from having dinner with you.

• 1:21Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, yeah. Yeah, we had a good time.

• 1:24Craig Robinson?

  How are you doing?

• 1:25Michelle Obama?

  I am doing pretty well, you know, as long as I'm still in that place, as long as my kids are good. Our kids are good. I'm doing good. I'm having fun. We're with this podcast. We have had some great guests. We got another great guest here with us today that we'll get to. But I feel good and I'm happy to be here with you. What's happening in Milwaukee? You driving around in your new?

• 1:54Craig Robinson?

  I am driving around in my new Rivian. And for those of you who don't remember, Rivian gifted the two of us with nice vehicles, the R1S to drive around. And I've been tooling around. We have officially made it. Our number one car to drive in the house, so.

• 2:16Michelle Obama?

  That's a smart move, smart move. It is a beautiful car and it is easy to drive. And I have driven it just a little bit. I'm gonna have some more time with it this summer. But you have been driving it more than I have.

• 2:28Craig Robinson?

  I have, and I'm getting to know it a little bit better. And you know what my favorite feature is, other than not having to go to the gas station?

• 2:35Michelle Obama?

  You're right. What is it?

• 2:37Craig Robinson?

  Is the navigational system.

• 2:38Michelle Obama?

  Okay, what's?

• 2:39Craig Robinson?

  The screen is gigantic. So in my old man eyes, I can see it very clearly. And not only is it a big screen, but it is in 3D. And you know, I love me some 3D maps. So, um, no, it's, it's been, it's that, that's one of many features, but that's one of my favorite features.

• 2:59Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, I'm looking forward to tooling around.

• 3:01Craig Robinson?

  Good, good. Well, you know, I got some real credibility points with my boys when I told them who our guest was gonna be on today.

• 3:10Michelle Obama?

  Okay, so what did you, what, what did they say? What did you say and what did they say?

• 3:14Craig Robinson?

  So you guys have to picture this, picture us sitting at the kitchen table and our boys are not paying attention to what, anything Kelly and I are talking about, right?

• 3:23Michelle Obama?

  Because they are 15 and?

• 3:24Craig Robinson?

  They are 15 and one's watching the basketball game and the other one's eating or something. 15 and 13. And the 13 year old is the youngest of four. So, you know, he's already cool and doesn't talk to anybody. So she said, so who's gonna be on this time? And I'm going through the whole thing. And I said, and then on the last day, the last person we're talking to is Victoria Monet. And the 13 year old goes like this.

• 3:51Craig Robinson?

  So for those of you in our audio folks who did, I just snapped my head around and looked at my sister. He looked at me and he said, now that's a quality guest. Quality. That's what he said to me. Quality.

• 4:05Michelle Obama?

  Instead of everybody else we've talked to.

• 4:07Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, that's a quality guest.

• 4:08Michelle Obama?

  Well, Victoria is a quality guest. She is, uh, is she-

• 4:15Craig Robinson?

  Three-time Grammy winner.

• 4:17Michelle Obama?

  Mm-hmm.

• 4:18Craig Robinson?

  And songwriter, and now a children's book author.

• 4:22Michelle Obama?

  I know. I'm so excited to talk about that project.

• 4:24Craig Robinson?

  Her debut book, Everywhere You Are, is a heartfelt tribute to working parents, which we have both been. And their little ones, inspired by her own journey as a parent. And it features her four-year-old daughter Hazel, who I guess you've met.

• 4:38Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, yeah. She's a cutie boots, for sure.

• 4:42Craig Robinson?

  She's voicing the audiobook at four years old.

• 4:44Michelle Obama?

  That's awesome. That is awesome.

• 4:46Craig Robinson?

  So without any further ado, can we see our, our good new friend here?

• 4:51Michelle Obama?

  Come on in, Victoria.

• 4:56Speaker 00

  So good to see you too.

• 4:58Michelle Obama?

  Thank you for being here.

• 4:59Craig Robinson?

  Nice to meet you.

• 5:03Speaker 00

  And please tell the children I said hello. And thank you for calling me quality. I appreciate that compliment.

• 5:10Michelle Obama?

  Quality, because at 13, they know something about quality.

• 5:14Craig Robinson?

  He doesn't say, you know, he's, he's a man of few words, too. So for him to just say, okay, now that's a quality guest.

• 5:22Michelle Obama?

  I love it. Thank you. Well, the last time we were together, we were trying to help the people, weren't we? Yes. Victoria joined me along with another, with a wonderful group of, of celebrity supporters in Atlanta in the middle of this past election to try to get young people out to vote. And Victoria, you know, because we don't have a budget to fly people out. And so the celebrities that were involved cared. Flew themselves out, got themselves out there and spoke passionately about the importance of voting. And again, Victoria, I just want to thank you for

• 6:02Speaker 00

  It was an honor.

• 6:03Michelle Obama?

  Using your voice and your platform for something very, very important.

• 6:08Speaker 00

  Thank you so much.

• 6:09Michelle Obama?

  And you spoke, so this is the first time I heard you speaking.

• 6:12Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 6:13Michelle Obama?

  And you were brilliant.

• 6:15Speaker 00

  Thank you so much.

• 6:16Michelle Obama?

  You really were.

• 6:17Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 6:18Michelle Obama?

  In addition to everything else, you are a phenomenal speaker.

• 6:21Speaker 00

  I appreciate that.

• 6:22Michelle Obama?

  Speaking from your heart and, you know, just offering some wisdom at the same time.

• 6:28Speaker 00

  So just want to make a difference.

• 6:30Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, yeah, well, we'll have to try again.

• 6:32Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 6:33Michelle Obama?

  Come on, come on.

• 6:35Speaker 00

  Yes, truly.

• 6:36Michelle Obama?

  Maybe now we know.

• 6:37Speaker 00

  Right.

• 6:38Michelle Obama?

  But it's great to have you here with us.

• 6:40Speaker 00

  Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here and chat with you guys.

• 6:44Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 6:45Craig Robinson?

  Terrific.

• 6:46Michelle Obama?

  So you're living in LA. LA is home.

• 6:48Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 6:49Michelle Obama?

  Has it been home for a while?

• 6:50Speaker 00

  Since 2009, I've lived in LA. So it's been close some time, like my full adult life, all of the restaurants and parties, like everything has been LA based. But I'm from Sacramento.

• 7:01Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 7:02Speaker 00

  Family from Mobile, Alabama, so.

• 7:03Michelle Obama?

  Because everybody's from Alabama.

• 7:06Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 7:07Michelle Obama?

  In the end, right?

• 7:08Speaker 00

  Yeah, apparently I just met Dr. Sharon and she's telling me she's from Mobile and she knows my family. I'm like, what a small, big world.

• 7:14Michelle Obama?

  It's like, that's how it is. It's small amongst black folks.

• 7:16Speaker 00

  Right.

• 7:17Michelle Obama?

  For sure.

• 7:18Speaker 00

  Right.

• 7:19Michelle Obama?

  Well, I, you know, we want our listeners to really get to know you, you know? Everybody knows you are a mega star now.

• 7:25Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 7:26Michelle Obama?

  But it came from somewhere, right?

• 7:28Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 7:29Michelle Obama?

  So tell us about your, you know, your path to here.

• 7:33Speaker 00

  Ooh.

• 7:34Michelle Obama?

  I know, it's a, it's a, it's a long one. So I'll let you pick the parts of it, but you've been dancing, singing, writing for a long, long time.

• 7:42Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's been a passion of mine since I was really young. I actually started with dance. I feel like as an only child, that gave me the confidence. Because it's a group sport. You get to be onstage, but you're not by yourself. You're like, you can either fade into the background or take the center stage. So me, you know, developing my craft with dance first gave me the confidence to use my voice and start writing and singing. And I moved to L.A. off of an audition for a girl group in 2009. So I was working as a bank teller at the time in Sacramento.

• 8:17Michelle Obama?

  How old were you?

• 8:18Speaker 00

  I was 19.

• 8:19Michelle Obama?

  Oh, wow.

• 8:20Speaker 00

  Yeah, and I got an email on, I'm giving my age away, MySpace.

• 8:25Michelle Obama?

  So you're talking to us.

• 8:28Speaker 00

  MySpace.

• 8:29Craig Robinson?

  No matter what age you can be, you're way younger than me.

• 8:34Speaker 00

  Yeah, so one of the first social media experiences I feel like was MySpace. And so I got an email for an audition. So I went on the audition. I asked my friends if I should go or not because it didn't financially make sense. But I was like, I'm gonna take the chance. So I ended up making it into this girl group, which prompted us to move to L.A. within two weeks after that audition. So I just packed everything on up.

• 8:57Michelle Obama?

  And us being who?

• 8:58Speaker 00

  There was two other girls in the girl group.

• 9:01Michelle Obama?

  You on your own, solo, as no parents, no anything?

• 9:05Speaker 00

  No.

• 9:06Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 9:06Speaker 00

  Just me and a dream.

• 9:09Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, how did your, what did your parents think about it?

• 9:11Speaker 00

  My mother was like, this is, she was worried. But I was like, Mom, I'm serious. It felt very much like a sister act. I just wanna dance. I just wanna do this. So I was on my way.

• 9:23Craig Robinson?

  Wait, how old were you when you realized that you, I know you did the dance and all of that. But when did it hit you like, okay, I wanna be a performer as a profession?

• 9:33Speaker 00

  Yeah, I was watching this movie with my grandma. I don't remember what age exactly, but I wanna say probably like, Eight, nine, where Holly Berry was playing Dorothy Dandridge.

• 9:46Michelle Obama?

  Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

• 9:47Speaker 00

  Yes, and I was, I was like, I want to be a triple threat. I love the, you know, the challenges that she's facing and overcoming. I want to be singing and dancing and, and musicals. And I used to love movies like Chitty Chitty Bang Bang or.

• 10:01Michelle Obama?

  Oh, yeah.

• 10:04Michelle Obama?

  Turner's full classics.

• 10:05Speaker 00

  Yes, yes, Dick Van Dyke.

• 10:08Michelle Obama?

  Dick Van Dyke is my favorite performer of all time.

• 10:11Speaker 00

  He's amazing, he's amazing and like just such a class act.

• 10:14Michelle Obama?

  You like the old school folks.

• 10:16Speaker 00

  I do, I do. Even musically, I like, I tend to go vintage, so like 60s, 70s, Motown. And, you know, Temptations were my, one of my favorites.

• 10:27Michelle Obama?

  Did you get introduced to that through your, your family? Or is that just your old soul taste?

• 10:33Speaker 00

  Well, my mom actually told me that she thinks I was here before because somehow I knew the lyrics. But I think that just came from what my family was playing. Like when we get together with our family reunions or events, like it was just a good time with that type of music. Or pool parties, like that was the kind of stuff that was playing. That and then like 90s R and B.

• 10:53Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 10:54Speaker 00

  But it just sounded so good. I feel like I really connected with live instrumentation, like people playing horns and strings and flutes. It like, it just all sounded so beautiful. So when, you know, in the digital era where people can make music on a laptop and you, you can play the keys, but be having the sound come out as a guitar. I really value people who have, you know, spent the time mastering true instrumentation, so.

• 11:24Michelle Obama?

  Did you come from a musical family, a talented family? What, what's that DNA?

• 11:31Speaker 00

  My mom sang and danced. She definitely danced around the house while she was cleaning. She was actually listening to Uncle Luke, sorry, mom. And my grandma was listening to the oldies. So it just reminds me so much of like a Sunday morning, you know, cleaning the house. It just feels so much, I felt so much nostalgia. My grandpa played saxophone and harmonica and my grandma sang opera. So it's like, my aunt sang, so it was around. But no one had pursued it as a career. It just kind of felt like I viewed it as an extracurricular activity you can do. But go to college and, you know, do the other way.

• 12:11Michelle Obama?

  That's right.

• 12:11Speaker 00

  To pursue a career was the way that they wanted me to go. Which I understood, but.

• 12:17Michelle Obama?

  So you, so you were the first one in the family to really break out and say, I'm doing this.

• 12:22Speaker 00

  The crazy one.

• 12:23Michelle Obama?

  I'm getting on the bus.

• 12:25Speaker 00

  I'm out of here.

• 12:26Michelle Obama?

  Going to the big city with my girl group.

• 12:28Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. So from there, so many twists and turns. I was writing, I became a songwriter because I was still in a record deal that wasn't, wasn't necessarily favorable.

• 12:42Michelle Obama?

  Oh, and that sounds familiar. That's, that's, that is the story of everybody's first deal, right?

• 12:47Speaker 00

  It's like, I guess you gotta get jumped in or something. I don't know. But yeah, so I had to find my way out of that and to take the songwriting path. And that's how I ended up gaining more success as a songwriter first and then transitioning into artistry.

• 13:02Craig Robinson?

  So wait, what happened to the, the girl band, the girl group?

• 13:05Speaker 00

  Oh, we got dropped. We actually got signed to Motown, which was so exciting because we, it was a dream listening to the music with my grandma. So I was so excited. And she had actually passed the year that I moved to LA. So I felt like she had her hand on that.

• 13:21Michelle Obama?

  What was your first songwriting break? When did it, when, when did it hit for you as a songwriter?

• 13:28Speaker 00

  I had a lot of success with Ariana Grande.

• 13:32Speaker 00

  Writing alongside her for. Since her first album.

• 13:38Speaker 00

  And then she, we just got really, really close. She named her tour after a song that I had written with her called Honeymoon Avenue. And then we just figured that we were musical soulmates and we just kept going. It became a friendship and a partnership and so much fun. You know, when you get to work with your friends, there's nothing like that, you know? So I had a lot of success with her as a songwriter.

• 14:00Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, you see, it's beautiful.

• 14:03Speaker 00

  It's so beautiful to have a family business or business with friends. When you look around at the people surrounding you, you want to be inspired by them and be able to bring them up with you.

• 14:14Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 14:21Craig Robinson?

  In this next segment, presented by our friends at Chase Home Lending, we'll discuss what it's like to turn dreams into doorsteps. Every home has a story and every homeowner has faced unexpected challenges along the way. From financial hurdles to finding the perfect neighborhood, Chase is here to demystify the journey and make homeownership a more attainable goal.

• 14:45Michelle Obama?

  Oh, I wish our parents had had that growing up.

• 14:48Craig Robinson?

  I know, I know. You know, you know, we started out in a, what would be called a co-op or a project in Parkway Garden Homes. And then we.

• 14:57Michelle Obama?

  Or they rented.

• 14:58Craig Robinson?

  We rented and we lived next to.

• 15:01Michelle Obama?

  Our grandparents.

• 15:01Craig Robinson?

  Our grandparents who rented. I mean, at that point, nobody was a homeowner. And then our great aunt Robbie moved to South Shore and bought a home.

• 15:12Michelle Obama?

  She and her husband, because they were, they didn't, they were older couple. They never had their own children. Robbie was a teacher. Terry, her husband, had a good retirement plan as a Pullman porter, a good pension.

• 15:29Michelle Obama?

  So they were the first people that we knew of that owned their home.

• 15:33Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, and they were kind enough to allow us to rent the upper floor of a two-family house.

• 15:41Michelle Obama?

  Two-family home, yeah.

• 15:42Craig Robinson?

  And that was really our first taste of being around people who were homeowners.

• 15:47Michelle Obama?

  And living above someone as renters, right? And we were little kids living above these two older folks.

• 15:56Craig Robinson?

  So we had to, we had to be careful after a certain time. We wanted to be quiet, didn't want to go stomping around, running around.

• 16:03Michelle Obama?

  Couldn't have a dog.

• 16:04Craig Robinson?

  Couldn't, and I know you wanted a dog. I know you always say mom didn't want a dog, but I know you, if you had wanted a dog, you would have gotten a dog.

• 16:11Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 16:12Craig Robinson?

  They, they, they were allergic to dogs, so they didn't want to have a dog and.

• 16:17Michelle Obama?

  And I always dreamed, I, I used to beg dad, can we buy our own home? Because I wanted stairs, right?

• 16:24Craig Robinson?

  You wanted a second floor bedroom. I remember that.

• 16:27Michelle Obama?

  But it was something that they were a little cautious about, very cautious about.

• 16:31Craig Robinson?

  And, and dad used to say, I don't want to be house poor. And, and at the time, he would explain that having a mortgage was a tough thing. And then later in life, we figured out that was a great way to build wealth.

• 16:45Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, yeah. We started building our careers and realizing what our parents missed.

• 16:50Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, yeah. Well, I'm glad we figured it out. And thanks to Chase Home Lending for sponsoring this segment. They understand that buying a home is a journey and having the right support makes all the difference. Chase is here to help with smart digital tools and expert guidance. So you can make informed decisions with confidence. Dreaming of a home? Ready to take that next step? Connect with a lending advisor today at chase.com/start and start turning your homeownership dreams into a reality. Member FDIC, equal housing opportunity.

• 17:35Michelle Obama?

  So then you decide, okay, I've written a lot of hits for a lot of people. Now it's my turn.

• 17:41Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 17:41Michelle Obama?

  When did you go from writing to writing for yourself? And how old were you when that happened? And because I'm trying to get the timeline too.

• 17:52Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 17:53Michelle Obama?

  Because you're still a baby in my eyes.

• 17:55Speaker 00

  Thank you. Well, I think that once I had, well, I was, let's start by saying I was always writing for myself in the background. It just wasn't lucrative. So I needed to take on different job titles in order, within music, in order to make ends meet. So I started to become a vocal producer. So, and I learned how to engineer, so in Pro Tools, so that I can record myself and others. And those were the types of jobs within music that I could get money on the same day or week. As far as songwriting, it's a bit of a journey because you don't get income until the song, nine months after the song comes out.

• 18:39Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 18:39Speaker 00

  Which is still not right away because you have to, you know, artists are working on an album maybe for a year at a time. So if you wrote a song in January, maybe it'll come out next January. And then nine months from there, you will see some royalties. So I needed to find positions that would pay, you know, quickly. So I ended up doing that and.

• 19:00Michelle Obama?

  So you just had your hustle game.

• 19:02Speaker 00

  Hustle.

• 19:02Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, that's good. Because I just, it's interesting because a lot of people who want to go into music, they, you know, they don't understand the lag time.

• 19:10Speaker 00

  Right.

• 19:11Michelle Obama?

  Where the money is actually made.

• 19:13Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 19:13Michelle Obama?

  You know, they just see the end result.

• 19:15Speaker 00

  Right.

• 19:16Michelle Obama?

  But being the star isn't always the thing that pays.

• 19:21Speaker 00

  It's not always shiny either.

• 19:22Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 19:23Speaker 00

  So, but it's, when you're, when you're able to do what you love, sometimes that money doesn't matter. Like I don't, I didn't need to be rich and successful. I just needed to eat, you know, and I would, and I would do it a million times over because I just love what I do. But it is nice to also be rewarded with even more than you anticipate for what you love to do.

• 19:52Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, yeah. And then came. Hazel?

• 19:57Speaker 00

  Yes, she was a pandemic baby. There was nothing to do.

• 20:02Speaker 00

  So, but I feel like that was a perfect timing. It was almost like there was an intermission in my career too, to be able to let my body

• 20:09Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 20:09Speaker 00

  go through that and then, you know, come back to self.

• 20:14Speaker 00

  And she's been the biggest blessing. It was almost like I had these preconceived notions that, you know,

• 20:21Speaker 00

  having a child would suspend career or make things even more difficult, but God just was like, nope. But it's been so fun.

• 20:31Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, yeah. Now, there are so many women out there in the midst of their careers and, you know, where becoming a mother is stressful.

• 20:43Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 20:44Michelle Obama?

  Because they don't always know how it's gonna be received.

• 20:47Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 20:48Michelle Obama?

  Did you go through any of that? Because you were very young in the middle of your career and of course, all kids are a blessing.

• 20:55Speaker 00

  Right.

• 20:57Michelle Obama?

  But, you know, did you have any fears, any doubts? Were you afraid at any point that

• 21:04Speaker 00

  Definitely.

• 21:04Michelle Obama?

  this pregnancy was gonna upend everything?

• 21:07Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 21:08Michelle Obama?

  Talk a bit about that.

• 21:09Speaker 00

  So, when I got pregnant, I was an independent artist. I was working with this company that, called Platoon, working out of the UK. And when you're an artist, though you're a human, you're technically the business. So to have to explain to someone who is a partner in your business that your business may slow down because of pregnancy is difficult, but it's also something that you're supposed to feel celebratory about because it's a blessing. And not everybody gets that opportunity that wants it. So you should be thankful. So it's a balance for me of being celebratory about it, but also kind of apologizing to my partners

• 21:52Speaker 00

  that it was, it was a weird thing for me to try to navigate.

• 21:57Michelle Obama?

  How'd you approach that conversation?

• 21:59Speaker 00

  It was a Zoom call.

• 22:00Michelle Obama?

  Oh, yes. So, yeah.

• 22:04Speaker 00

  One of the, you know, I'm, I'm pregnant. It was just like, in retrospect, it was, it was really, really disheartening. And I, I had a person on my team.

• 22:16Speaker 00

  So though the intentions were good, really, really hurt my feelings because they made a PowerPoint presentation to me about how difficult it will be for me. So how much childcare is, what um.

• 22:31Craig Robinson?

  Wait, this is somebody on your team?

• 22:33Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 22:34Craig Robinson?

  Oh.

• 22:34Speaker 00

  Yeah, and the and the finale of the presentation was, what's the rush? So so it felt like an encouragement to get an abortion.

• 22:44Michelle Obama?

  Wow.

• 22:45Speaker 00

  So that was really, really hurtful. And I walked out of that meeting.

• 22:50Michelle Obama?

  And this was a meeting with a bunch of people?

• 22:52Speaker 00

  Just me and this person.

• 22:54Michelle Obama?

  Oh, OK.

• 22:54Speaker 00

  This particular meeting was just me and this person. Um, and I walked out of that meeting with that same fight that I had when I left home. Like, I'm gonna, no, I'm doing, right. I'm gonna do this.

• 23:07Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 23:07Speaker 00

  And it's my body, and I'm gonna make it work, even if it's hard. I'm not scared of hard things. I can do hard things. And. Yeah, it was very, very emotional, especially in um.

• 23:21Michelle Obama?

  And how old were you when all this was going on?

• 23:24Speaker 00

  I wanna say I was thirty-two, thirty-one, thirty-two. And the pandemic.

• 23:27Michelle Obama?

  You were grown, but still, you know.

• 23:29Speaker 00

  Yeah, so to be apologizing for it felt like a big contradiction spiritually. But um, I know that the intention of the person wasn't to harm me. They just wanted to let me know how big of a decision it is to keep and also balance um the expectations for what my career may or may not do after that. But I walked hand in hand with God and he, that's, it's amazing that one of my biggest songs is on my mama because it's so full circle to my intention and purpose for having her.

• 24:05Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, well, it adds a whole new level of meaning to the song. I mean, all of us are popping up.

• 24:10Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 24:11Michelle Obama?

  Mama. And we think, yeah, it's like, oh, my mama.

• 24:15Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 24:16Michelle Obama?

  Right, you know, yeah.

• 24:18Speaker 00

  Yes, it's beautiful, so.

• 24:19Michelle Obama?

  Well, it's, it's, it's so important for you to share that because there's so many of us as women out here, working, trying to keep families together, hold on to our careers.

• 24:30Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 24:31Michelle Obama?

  So many women will be able to identify with that fear, with the pressure, you know, to doubt the path that you're in.

• 24:40Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 24:41Michelle Obama?

  Even something as precious as motherhood. Because a lot of industries don't make space for mothers.

• 24:47Speaker 00

  Right.

• 24:48Michelle Obama?

  So how did, how did you make space for your mothering in, in your career? Cause you didn't, you, you didn't lose a, a step. You know, things might've been slow, but how did you, how did you do it? How did you manage to manage that balance? And I know you're still managing it, but.

• 25:05Speaker 00

  Yes. I think one of the best things that I was able to conquer is time management. And luckily I had put in 10,000 plus hours before I had her. So I felt like I was able to do what I, what would've took me 10 hours in three hours. Because I had, you know, worked on my craft so much. So I had to exercise that muscle. And also having a healthy relationship with my, my, my child's father. Even though we aren't together anymore, having a healthy co-parenting relationship. So that she feels like even when I'm not there, there's someone who loves her just as much right next to her.

• 25:46Craig Robinson?

  I'm glad you brought that up because for, for us men and partners out there. How have you been able to keep such a healthy relationship even after you guys have broken up? Because as a divorced person, it doesn't always turn out that way.

• 26:05Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 26:05Craig Robinson?

  So can you give, give us some advice on as partners on how to handle that?

• 26:10Speaker 00

  Talk to the men. Talk to, okay. So Phyllis. Please keep as much information off the internet as you can. As much negative information. If it's positive, let the world know. But if it's negative and if it's critique, just please make sure that happens directly to who it needs to happen with. Versus the embarrassment of the world having to know. And with social media makes it so much, so easy to make impulse posts, impulsive posts. Or for news to travel or screenshots to go up. And I just feel like the.

• 26:52Speaker 00

  The world doesn't delete your feelings and get over your feelings the way you do.

• 26:57Craig Robinson?

  Right.

• 26:57Speaker 00

  So maybe you may feel that way today. And then two years from now, you guys may be best friends, but the world is still hanging on to what you said about that person. It's like, you know, if you tell your friends or your mom that you got in an argument and your mom just never forgives that person.

• 27:11Craig Robinson?

  Yes, I know exactly what you're talking about.

• 27:14Speaker 00

  And sometimes you have to deal with it directly instead of letting everybody know your negative, every negative thought. Because we are protective beings and we want to protect the people we love. And sometimes, you know, everything it took for you to make up with that person, you're not communicating those things with the people that you let know about the flaws.

• 27:34Craig Robinson?

  Right.

• 27:34Speaker 00

  So sometimes it's just better to talk directly to the person or to a therapist only.

• 27:41Michelle Obama?

  How specifically has Hazel's father helped you with the balance? Because there are some men who are like, I don't do this, I don't do that.

• 27:52Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 27:54Michelle Obama?

  Talk about, because I also think that's what kind of advice you're thinking about.

• 27:59Craig Robinson?

  Well, that would be the next question. Because we don't necessarily know how to support

• 28:07Craig Robinson?

  a woman whose career is as big as yours and as busy as yours.

• 28:12Speaker 00

  Yes. That's a really, really great question. I feel maybe the answer is

• 28:21Speaker 00

  a lot of patience and understanding and empathy. It's almost like when I'm asking him to watch Hazel for a career move, I have to be able to have that same grace. It's not a one-way street. So if he wants to make a move or just be outside for a night and he wants to go out, I have to have that grace and say, yes, I'll watch her, even though I know he may be outside, meet somebody else. You know, it's like, all of those things are in consideration. But it just really takes a lot of patience and grace, prayer, great communication, making sure that you are considerate of how you're saying something versus what you're saying. And I honestly, I want to ask him how he does it as well. Because it is not, I'm seeing so much chaos

• 29:05Speaker 00

  in our community regarding children and the separation of parents. And we all know that it's quite normal these days to

• 29:17Speaker 00

  For things not to last. So how is it that our community can better navigate those hard moments?

• 29:24Craig Robinson?

  Yeah. Well, it's interesting. You said you want to ask him how he does it.

• 29:30Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 29:30Craig Robinson?

  Because it sounds, before you said that, I was thinking that you guys got together, had a meeting and said, okay, here are the things that we need to go over to make this work.

• 29:40Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 29:40Craig Robinson?

  But it sounds like this was more trial and error or?

• 29:44Speaker 00

  Well, we did say that we were going to stay offline on anything that would negatively affect either of our images and that Hazel could eventually read and see. So that was the main agreement. But beyond that, the daily back and forth, I feel like he should probably have a platform to speak on it because I know dads around the world are going through this and they don't know how to balance their emotions or, you know, their maybe potential rage and disappointment that the relationship didn't work out or jealousy or financial burdens.

• 30:28Michelle Obama?

  And just being single parents on the other end.

• 30:31Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 30:32Michelle Obama?

  Because when they have the child assuming and hopefully they're involved.

• 30:37Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 30:37Michelle Obama?

  There are going to be huge moments where they're operating as a single dad.

• 30:41Speaker 00

  Right.

• 30:41Michelle Obama?

  You know, which we, you know, a lot of women understand that, that balance. But where men who, when they are able to talk about those challenges and how are they finding that balance?

• 30:53Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 30:53Michelle Obama?

  Men don't talk about that.

• 30:55Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 31:04Craig Robinson?

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• 32:30Craig Robinson?

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• 33:14Craig Robinson?

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• 33:59Craig Robinson?

  the Up Payment Program, which will help drive real impact, making the dream of homeownership more attainable for everyone. You know, my wife Kelly and I are currently in the process of redoing our bathroom. We just started out and haven't done the demolition yet, but we know that this will add to the value of our house. So, thank you Progressive for helping families plan ahead and for sponsoring our show. Visit progressive.com/OPENTHEHOUSE to learn more. This back to school season, spend less on your kids with Amazon. I remember when my wife Kelly and I would be running around to a million different

• 34:41Craig Robinson?

  stores, chasing down spiral notebooks, lunchboxes, and that one specific calculator that somehow every math teacher requires. And look, I love my kids, but I do not love fighting over the last pack of highlighters in a crowded store at 7:00 PM on a Tuesday. That's why I love Amazon. Amazon has everything for back to school. Backpacks, pencils, clothes, snacks, and even those dry erase markers the teachers secretly hoard. All delivered fast, right to my doorstep. One click, no stress, boom. And the best part, I can shop from my couch.

• 35:25Craig Robinson?

  With my now 15-year-old and 13-year-old, I grab their school supply list and I'm all set. Now, instead of running around town stressed out, I get to actually spend the last days of summer with my kids. We're doing movie nights, bike rides, and even, dare I say, back to school fashion shows in the living room. Parents, do yourself a favor. Go to Amazon. Get your back to school checklist done in like, five minutes while saving a few bucks. So, remember with Amazon's low back to school prices, just spend less on your kids.

• 36:09Craig Robinson?

  Because every dollar you don't spend on them is a dollar you haven't spent on them.

• 36:21Craig Robinson?

  So when Hazel comes to you and says, hey, Mom, I want to be a performer.

• 36:26Speaker 00

  She has said that.

• 36:27Craig Robinson?

  Already.

• 36:27Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 36:28Michelle Obama?

  Well, she's already done some voiceover work on the book.

• 36:33Speaker 00

  Yes, yes. And she also, in 2024, along with my first Grammy nominations as an artist, she became the first, the youngest Grammy nominee in history. So it's like, God is really just nailing in the idea that everything that you wanted is tenfold with your child by your side. And you're doing things that you're supposed to do and making a difference in her life, and you will be rewarded in that way.

• 37:02Michelle Obama?

  Well, and your current project, your book.

• 37:06Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 37:07Michelle Obama?

  Everywhere you are. Tell us about the motivation behind writing this book.

• 37:12Craig Robinson?

  We've got a copy of it.

• 37:12Michelle Obama?

  Got a copy of the book right here.

• 37:15Speaker 00

  Yes. So the inspiration really is to combat children with separation anxiety and parents with parent guilt who have to balance work and family life. And I feel like that's about everybody.

• 37:28Michelle Obama?

  Yep.

• 37:28Speaker 00

  You know? I was reading something somewhere where it was explaining why children enjoy peekaboo as children. It's because when you disappear, they actually view you as gone.

• 37:42Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 37:43Speaker 00

  So it's like you're doing this magic trick, like you're disappearing and coming back. So I started to think about how, well, if I'm actually gone, what is she thinking?

• 37:51Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 37:52Speaker 00

  You know, and for the hours, eight hours a day, you know, that I'm working, or any parent is working, what does she feel? So I just wanted to make something tangible that a parent can read, or an uncle or an aunt can read that doesn't live out in town.

• 38:09Michelle Obama?

  How do you combat your guilt?

• 38:13Speaker 00

  Sometimes.

• 38:15Michelle Obama?

  Because I'm just assuming you have it because we all do.

• 38:17Speaker 00

  A hundred percent, a hundred percent. I think one, explaining things to her helps me.

• 38:24Michelle Obama?

  Because aren't kids really smart?

• 38:26Speaker 00

  They understand a lot more than sometimes we give them credit for. And I, a lot of times when parents say to their child, they're going to work, but they're doing it for the child. My approach is, I'm doing this for you and for me. So that she knows mommy has dreams and she has her own identity too. And she can be proud to know that none of that was given up on because of her existence. Because sometimes the story goes that we say, I gave up everything for you.

• 38:55Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 38:56Speaker 00

  And that.

• 38:57Michelle Obama?

  Although it's sound.

• 38:58Speaker 00

  It's, yeah, it pressurizes the love and the capacity. And so the child feels, feels guilty instead. And the parent feels resentful to their motherhood or fatherhood.

• 39:12Speaker 00

  And so I just wanted to change that narrative a bit and say, you know what? I have dreams and I'm going to go pursue them. And everything that I get from these, this pursuit, you will benefit from. But it's also my dream.

• 39:26Speaker 00

  And I won't, I won't want to give up on that for me. And when you get a dream, I don't want you to give up on that for you.

• 39:32Michelle Obama?

  And amazingly, they understand. How does, how do you get the sense that Hazel gets it? And I know it's, you know, she's going to go through her phases. But as a mom, you know her and you know what she's understanding.

• 39:45Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 39:46Michelle Obama?

  And what she isn't.

• 39:47Speaker 00

  I think that it, it came down to her reaction when I leave. And her reaction when I get back is really, really helpful. So at the beginning, it was lots of tears and, and that separation is so difficult. Like that first day of school, you're like, I sat in the car that day and I was like, am I doing the right thing? She doesn't technically need school right now because like, maybe I'll just wait till she, and she actually is in kindergarten. She was two at the time, but I needed her to have some social skills because she was a pandemic baby. So she was like, I don't like anybody with my kids. So I needed her to.

• 40:24Michelle Obama?

  You're like, we need to break this now.

• 40:26Speaker 00

  Yes. Yeah, it was important to do.

• 40:28Michelle Obama?

  You need some friends, little two-year-old.

• 40:31Speaker 00

  Please, y'all go have your conversations. But that first day, I was like, I don't know if I'm, this is right. It felt so heavy. And then she realizes that she's autonomous and independent and she can have a great day, whether or not mommy's smiling in her face, or whether or not mommy gives her a lollipop. She can create it on her own. So knowing that she has that confidence was helpful to know that it's okay to give some distance and come back, give some opportunity to be missed and come back.

• 41:03Michelle Obama?

  Create some emotional resilience.

• 41:05Speaker 00

  That's right.

• 41:06Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 41:06Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's great.

• 41:08Michelle Obama?

  We are grateful to you and Hazel.

• 41:10Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 41:11Michelle Obama?

  For making it happen.

• 41:12Craig Robinson?

  That's right.

• 41:13Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 41:13Craig Robinson?

  And this is, this, we, you know, on IMO, we have a question from one of our listeners. And so this is a perfect time to pivot to that.

• 41:21Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 41:21Craig Robinson?

  And our question today is from Lily, from, who lives in Virginia.

• 41:25Michelle Obama?

  Hey, Lily.

• 41:26Speaker 00

  Lily.

• 41:28Speaker 03

  Hi, Michelle and Craig. I'm in my late twenties and have been doing something I absolutely love since I had my first job at age 16, teaching dance. I have taught dance every year since and still love it just as much. I did all my undergrad projects on dance and after COVID, I earned my master's in dance education. I'm now at my first full-time job at a nonprofit, doing what I love every day, creating curricula and teaching dance.

• 41:55Speaker 03

  I've been here for just over two years. As much as I love this work, I'm also extremely stressed out and anxious. My job has begun to take such a mental and emotional toll on me that I dread meeting new people because I know the question, what do you do, will come up. For some reason, I now hate telling people about my work because it stresses me out all over again. When I'm not there, I try my hardest not to think about it. I have an amazing therapist that I've been working on this with for quite a while, but I'm still confused about why I dread talking about the job I've always felt so passionately for. How normal is this? Does this just mean that I'm burnt out? Or is this a sign that this work is no longer for me? Have you ever felt this worn out by your work?

• 42:38Speaker 03

  And if so, how did you manage to keep going? Thank you.

• 42:43Craig Robinson?

  Now, we have not had a question so perfect for our guest than this one.

• 42:52Speaker 00

  Yes, I understand it completely, Lilly.

• 42:57Speaker 00

  I would say, I feel like there's a couple of layers to this question. One is the anticipation of the question, what do you do? And the answer being a description of your job versus the purpose of your job. So if the question comes, I would maybe reframe the answer as, I help people manifest their true destiny. I help people perfect their dream and their craft. I help people get better. Instead of saying, I am a dance teacher, you know, like that title. Just maybe reframing that. And then the other layer, I think, to the question is, two things can be true at once.

• 43:39Speaker 00

  You can love what you do, but it can also be really hard and draining. You can love the person you're with, but they can also get on your nerves. You know, so it's okay to change,

• 43:53Speaker 00

  change what you do if that's what you feel like you should do, and take some space away from it.

• 44:01Speaker 00

  I think if dance, if saying you're a dance teacher doesn't feel good right now, and it's been since you're 16, that's okay to try something else. Because your 16-year-old dream, you've been through so many versions of yourself since then. So it's okay not to have the exact same vision for yourself. And maybe then dance teaching can become something you do as an extracurricular activity versus your sole job or sole income. So it's possible to like have a bit of a plot twist. And then if it's still something, if it's something that you miss, you may return. Life can take you through so many twists and turns and different journeys. And maybe sometimes it could be your gut telling you,

• 44:47Speaker 00

  hey, let's try something else for a little bit. And that's completely okay. Your job doesn't have to be your... Identity forever.

• 44:54Craig Robinson?

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• 45:36Craig Robinson?

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• 45:56Speaker 00

  Wayfair, every style, every home. You know, I relate to it as a songwriter as well because when I started, I was an artist moving to LA and then I got a lot of success from songwriting. So everybody who met me was like, oh, the songwriter, the songwriter, the songwriter. And it wasn't until I did something else more than I did the other thing that they recognized me as that. Oh, the artist, the artist. It's like any job. If you meet somebody and they say, oh, yeah, I'm, for example, a janitor. They're gonna realize that that's what you are. But then, until you become a teacher and your teaching outweighs the time that you spend as a janitor, then they will identify you as a teacher.

• 46:41Speaker 00

  So it just becomes what you spend most of your time doing. And that can always change. You don't have to remain the same person that you introduced yourself as to anybody.

• 46:52Craig Robinson?

  Now, Victoria, did you ever, I mean, you were so focused on becoming an artist or a performer, or however you want to label it. Were you ever embarrassed to say that's what you were or that's who you wanted to be?

• 47:07Speaker 00

  I wouldn't say embarrassed, but also, but more so, what is the word?

• 47:17Speaker 00

  It felt like an ambitious statement. Like, inside, people may be like, yeah, okay.

• 47:22Craig Robinson?

  Oh, so you didn't want to sound like you were bragging.

• 47:24Michelle Obama?

  It's like, my husband, I want to be president of the United States. It's like, no, you might want to keep that to yourself, honey.

• 47:30Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 47:31Michelle Obama?

  Oh, that's so nice. You want to be president.

• 47:34Speaker 00

  Exactly. That is that. Or like when someone's like, I want to play basketball and I'm going to be the best basketball player ever. And you're like, okay.

• 47:42Michelle Obama?

  I'm going to play in the NBA. You're surrounded by.

• 47:45Craig Robinson?

  I am surrounded by people who do that. But I will say, I will say to Lily's point, when, see, I'm so old, there was not the internet. So I didn't grow up wanting to be an NBA player. It sort of just developed. But even as I was heading in that direction, I never wanted to tell people I was a basketball player. So I understand.

• 48:09Speaker 00

  And why was that?

• 48:10Craig Robinson?

  Because I didn't want to be pigeonholed in, oh, he's just a basketball player.

• 48:16Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 48:17Craig Robinson?

  Now, I don't know how many people have that feeling now because basketball players are making more money than most people. But at the time, I really felt self-conscious about basketball playing being my job.

• 48:35Speaker 00

  Did you feel like it was because the stigma around basketball players were that they weren't something else? Like, maybe not educated or not?

• 48:42Craig Robinson?

  That, that is exactly it. That is exactly it. And, and I had relatives in my family who thought that basketball playing was a waste of time, too. So they were like.

• 48:57Michelle Obama?

  Why'd you point to me when you said that?

• 48:59Craig Robinson?

  Because you're the only relative in the room. That's why. She got nervous. She probably was thinking the same thing. No, but I had relatives and who would be like, well, is that all you do? You know, and, and so I really, Dandy used to say that our paternal grandfather would never talk to me and would never talk to me about sports.

• 49:23Speaker 00

  Oh, wow.

• 49:24Craig Robinson?

  Because he thought that the only thing he had to talk to us about was education and learning and as, as a young black man, and I saw him do this to my uncles, like, you know, he didn't meet them where they were. He wanted them to rise up to what his expectation of them was.

• 49:42Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 49:43Craig Robinson?

  And, and I'm sure, my parents didn't do that, but I felt that in society. So that it wasn't until I got drafted, literally drafted, that I said, all right, I'm a basketball player, right? Like, this was a real thing now.

• 49:57Speaker 00

  Validated by that.

• 49:58Craig Robinson?

  So I was wondering if, if, if you ever had that in the music business?

• 50:04Speaker 00

  I feel like, yeah, it was just, is a feeling of people projecting their own doubts onto you when you say something so grand, because I do feel like some of your dream, your biggest dreams should sound a bit scary. And then you, you manifest those things regardless, which I think a lot of us have, you know, maybe even Lily would have, you know, I'm gonna be this amazing dance teacher. And people may have been like, okay, yeah, like, that's kind of a creative job, like, maybe, you know, schooling is, you should pick a different major, you know, something else, you know?

• 50:41Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, they're, they're, they're picturing ahead how much money you could potentially make.

• 50:46Speaker 00

  That's true.

• 50:47Craig Robinson?

  Too. And it's like-

• 50:48Michelle Obama?

  And people, a lot of traditional families, regular families who aren't in the arts or doing something that's considered non-traditional, and the arts still is considered a non-traditional way of life.

• 51:02Speaker 00

  Right.

• 51:03Michelle Obama?

  People don't understand the profession. They don't know that it is a profession.

• 51:08Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 51:08Michelle Obama?

  Right? They don't know how you can, you know, you just laid out a whole, you know- Sub-industry within the music business that, you know, like you said, you wanted to write, but there are other jobs in the music profession, producing, and you'll name them because I don't know them.

• 51:27Craig Robinson?

  Working in the control room.

• 51:29Michelle Obama?

  Control room.

• 51:30Craig Robinson?

  All that stuff.

• 51:31Michelle Obama?

  You know, yeah, nobody knows that, you know? People know doctor, lawyer, now you can be a day trader. Or, you know, I mean, some of the career titles are growing in people's minds. But the average mom and dad, the minute somebody says they want to go into theater or the arts, or they want to be in music, you know, the light goes off in the eye of the parent, right? And I wonder if Lilly has experienced some of that because she's in a community or in a family of people where it's like a dancer, like what's that?

• 52:05Speaker 00

  Right.

• 52:06Michelle Obama?

  I don't understand that. So I don't even know, I don't know, I don't know what that means.

• 52:10Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 52:11Michelle Obama?

  And if she's experienced any of that, I imagine how hard it must be for her to summon up the energy to continue something when it gets hard.

• 52:21Speaker 00

  Right.

• 52:21Michelle Obama?

  Right? It's like, it's easy to quit on yourself when you naturally get burnt out.

• 52:26Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 52:27Michelle Obama?

  You know, if it's not something that everybody around you is saying, I get it, I get you being a doctor.

• 52:31Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 52:32Michelle Obama?

  I understand the long hours. Boy, we're rooting for you, right? But you're, you're in the hearts. You're dancing, you're acting, you're making music. I don't understand it.

• 52:42Speaker 00

  Yeah. It just seems like, and naturally so, parents or people around would just want to hear something that has a guarantee.

• 52:52Michelle Obama?

  Yes.

• 52:53Speaker 00

  And with art, there's, or even sports, it's like, well, you need a backup plan. It's always a plan B situation because you could get injured. It's like all the projections of the worst case scenario. But I would love for us to obsess over the best case scenario. Like, what if you are the best NBA player? And what if you are the best dance teacher to ever lived and you're able to provide scholarships and change people's lives with what they want to do and make healthier bodies by what you're doing because you're encouraging exercise through something that's more fun than running on a treadmill potentially, it's dance and performance. So it's tough because I think we're just all being protective of each other and creating those shields.

• 53:35Speaker 00

  And sometimes those come in the form of limited beliefs and ideas of what you can do.

• 53:40Michelle Obama?

  Yeah. Have you ever experienced a burnout yourself? Because that's also something that I think people assume, oh, you're doing something you love. It's your passion. It's something you've always wanted your whole life. And it's this, you know, it's this fun thing.

• 53:56Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 53:57Michelle Obama?

  And so if you burn out, that must mean it's all wrong.

• 54:01Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 54:02Michelle Obama?

  So I just wondered, you are doing the thing you've always loved.

• 54:07Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 54:07Michelle Obama?

  Have you experienced burnout?

• 54:09Speaker 00

  A hundred percent.

• 54:11Michelle Obama?

  And how did you handle? Have you handled it?

• 54:13Speaker 00

  You know, it takes some fight. Just as with anything, you have to get through that storm to get to the rainbow every time. And remember why it is that you're doing it. And then again, remind yourself of the gratitude that you should operate with. Because there are so many people that want to do what you do that can't. So that'll help you a bit when in that morning where you're just so exhausted and you want to stop or sleep in or, you know, give up in the long term. But making sure that you realize that every day is an opportunity. And even when it's hard, if you just show up, even if you don't, your score for that day is a C.

• 54:58Speaker 00

  Like you're not at your A game, but you showed up and you tried. That's how you get back on track. When I'm experiencing writer's block or I'm just not inspired, I just have to show up. And sometimes I'm not showing up as my best self. But the fact that I showed up kind of, it's like training. It's that muscle strength and just it's exercising resilience and not depending on inspiration, because inspiration fades. It's depending on

• 55:29Michelle Obama?

  Muscle memory.

• 55:30Speaker 00

  And yes, and muscle memory.

• 55:32Michelle Obama?

  Professionalism.

• 55:33Speaker 00

  Yeah. So just showing up. And that's the same thing we have to do in anything. In our friendship relationships, our personal relationships, everything that we do.

• 55:44Speaker 00

  Well, come with some types of hardships, but that's just to juxtapose the times when it does feel good.

• 55:50Michelle Obama?

  I'd say to Lily, based on that, is like, first of all, burnout is okay. And I think you said this to Victoria. But I, you know, I think young people who are pursuing non-traditional things, you know, they should be aware that even if you're doing something you love, there will come a point in time when you may be burned out.

• 56:12Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 56:12Michelle Obama?

  You know, the people at the top of their game, you know, I'm sure Michael Jordan, I'm sure Steph Curry, I'm sure you name it, I'm sure, you know, Beyonce.

• 56:22Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 56:24Michelle Obama?

  Everybody, even when they're at the top of their game, they get burned out.

• 56:28Speaker 00

  Right.

• 56:29Michelle Obama?

  But that doesn't necessarily mean that this isn't the path for you. It just means that, you know, you may need to think about ways to nurture yourself.

• 56:39Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 56:40Michelle Obama?

  Which you'll have to do in any career.

• 56:42Speaker 00

  That's right.

• 56:42Michelle Obama?

  In any profession, in any aspect of life.

• 56:45Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 56:45Michelle Obama?

  Is to learn how to keep moving forward. So maybe Lily isn't, you know, you know, the burnout may not be a sign of anything other than, you know.

• 56:55Speaker 00

  Just need a little rest.

• 56:56Michelle Obama?

  She's right. She needs a, maybe she needs a moment of rest. And maybe she wants to take a moment of rest before she takes full steps away from the thing that she loves.

• 57:07Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 57:07Michelle Obama?

  So there may be, you know, there may be a process to this.

• 57:10Speaker 00

  Right.

• 57:11Michelle Obama?

  She may want to try for, you know, a month or so, you know, finding a way to reduce her schedule if she's can, if she can.

• 57:19Speaker 00

  Right.

• 57:20Michelle Obama?

  Working in nonprofit, as somebody who worked in nonprofit, you usually don't have that kind of flexibility because you're working with tight budgets and you're understaffed, you're working in tough communities. So, you know, that may be playing a role in her burnout. Is that she may be, you know, doing a dance class with 50 kids at a time.

• 57:39Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 57:39Michelle Obama?

  Right? So she may have real legitimate reasons to be burned out.

• 57:43Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 57:44Michelle Obama?

  Because she's working hard. If she, especially if she's working in underserved communities.

• 57:48Speaker 00

  That's right.

• 57:49Michelle Obama?

  So instead of walking away, maybe she wants to find a minute to take some time off.

• 57:54Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 57:54Michelle Obama?

  And then see what that feels like, you know? She might need to give herself a minute to miss it. Before she makes a full blown statement about this isn't for me.

• 58:05Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 58:06Michelle Obama?

  But she may go away for a week or a month and be happy with that and turn that in two months and three months. And as you said, it's okay if she looks up in six months or a year or even shorter and says, I think I need to step away for a bit longer.

• 58:23Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 58:23Michelle Obama?

  You know, that's just the process of figuring yourself out.

• 58:28Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 58:28Michelle Obama?

  Whether in career or in life.

• 58:31Speaker 00

  That's right.

• 58:32Michelle Obama?

  When I was, uh, uh, came out of law school, um, I went into a big corporate firm because I went to Harvard and had a lot of debt and that's what you did. You became a big corporate lawyer.

• 58:42Speaker 00

  Mm hmm.

• 58:42Michelle Obama?

  Right? I was in there for two years, pretty miserable, um, not because of the place, but because the work was kind of soul crushing to me.

• 58:52Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 58:53Michelle Obama?

  Um, but I realized I hadn't tried anything else. And I left and I started working in city government and public service. And each job, while it paid less, was more interesting. You know, it had me in community. It had me working with people. So that year turned into two years. And then that job went from, you know, working for the deputy chief of staff to working in planning and development. And before you know it, I was away from law. I've never gone back.

• 59:21Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 59:22Michelle Obama?

  Right?

• 59:22Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 59:23Michelle Obama?

  I mean, so sometimes it, but it helped that I stepped away for a minute. And maybe Lilly wants to try that.

• 59:31Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 59:32Craig Robinson?

  That's, that's good advice.

• 59:33Speaker 00

  That's really great.

• 59:34Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, that's good advice.

• 59:35Speaker 00

  That leap of faith and bravery sometimes that will take you on your supposed path.

• 59:40Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, yeah. And, and, and that's not to say, Lilly, that what you, what you feel like is your passion, isn't your passion, right?

• 59:49Speaker 00

  That's right.

• 59:49Craig Robinson?

  It's just be flexible enough. If you're burnt out, be flexible enough to try something else because you can always come back to your passion.

• 59:59Speaker 00

  Mm hmm.

• 59:59Craig Robinson?

  And that's, that's a great point. And it's, it's, Misha and I have both done the same thing, you know, we, uh, my mom used to joke, you all went to all these fancy schools and you end up making less and less money each job you take.

• 1:00:14Michelle Obama?

  Why, thank you.

• 1:00:16Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, that's a good point, Mom. That's a good point. But she never, she was always very supportive.

• 1:00:22Michelle Obama?

  I love that.

• 1:00:22Craig Robinson?

  But she said it sort of chuckling, because it was very true.

• 1:00:26Michelle Obama?

  Yeah. Another pay cut, huh? Yeah.

• 1:00:32Craig Robinson?

  Meech did it a little more than I did. I went, I went from, from Wall Street trader to assistant basketball coach. So, everybody thought I was having a nervous breakdown. I, I was, I was really, I was, I was doing what Lilly was doing. I figured out, ah, this is my passion. I want to try it. And, and off to the races I went. So.

• 1:00:55Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:56Craig Robinson?

  This, this is, you, you all have some good, I, I have some good notes.

• 1:00:59Michelle Obama?

  You took notes.

• 1:01:00Craig Robinson?

  I took notes. I took notes. Because Lilly's, she had a lot of stuff going on here. But the, the, the first thing that I took down, Victoria, was what you said about talking about what you do, not what the job is.

• 1:01:17Michelle Obama?

  I like that a lot.

• 1:01:18Craig Robinson?

  I like, I, that, that was really good. That's, you know, I mean, it's not that she's ashamed of it, but help people understand.

• 1:01:26Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:27Craig Robinson?

  That what, what being a dance teacher is and does for young people, for old people, for, for, for the community. I mean, that's great advice, Lilly. So, I, I think you should, you should really listen to that. And then Meech, you went, you, you went straight for the explore your why. That's her thing. We ought to get some T-shirts with explore your why on it.

• 1:01:50Michelle Obama?

  Actually, yeah.

• 1:01:50Craig Robinson?

  Because that's, that's really good.

• 1:01:52Michelle Obama?

  All right, team.

• 1:01:54Craig Robinson?

  T-shirts.

• 1:01:55Michelle Obama?

  And let me get one of those, please.

• 1:01:59Craig Robinson?

  And then, just because folks don't understand your career, doesn't mean that you're on the wrong track. And this will get back to Marian Robinson-ism. Why are you worried about what everybody's thinking? That, but that's hard in this day and age. It was hard for us when, you know, 50 years ago, right? But it's really hard for you all because of.

• 1:02:24Michelle Obama?

  Social media.

• 1:02:24Craig Robinson?

  The social media and everybody's like. Grading everybody and liking everybody and talking about.

• 1:02:30Michelle Obama?

  Or unliking and commenting.

• 1:02:31Craig Robinson?

  It's just, it's a barrage of grading. So you're trying to get good grades. You know, that's what I say about these young people. They're, they're trying to get good grades all the time. And Lilly, you don't have to get a good grade if you know what you want to do. And if you know you're working hard, that's the best part of it. The process is the best part. Enjoy that. So that's what I, that's what I gleaned from, from you two experts here, so.

• 1:03:00Speaker 00

  I love that. I just want to add too, because I'm, I'm reminded of my own path and what my dance teachers did for me.

• 1:03:10Speaker 00

  She changed how I felt about arriving at school, how I felt about my body and how I should take care of my body. She introduced the class to yoga. And then I became a dance teacher. I was, I didn't mention, I was a bank teller. I was also teaching dance at two different studios.

• 1:03:27Michelle Obama?

  You left that part out. At two different studios.

• 1:03:30Craig Robinson?

  Because we heard the bank teller part.

• 1:03:32Speaker 00

  Yeah, right. Yes, so, so two different dance studios. And I just saw one of my students, his name is Kida, dancing for Kendrick Lamar.

• 1:03:43Michelle Obama?

  Wow.

• 1:03:44Speaker 00

  He was six years old when I was teaching him. And now he's on stage with Kendrick in a stadium.

• 1:03:49Michelle Obama?

  Oh, he did the Super Bowl?

• 1:03:50Speaker 00

  He does, he's on, he's on tour with him.

• 1:03:52Michelle Obama?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:03:53Speaker 00

  Him and SZA. So to see, sometimes it's re-inspiring to see the difference you can make in people's lives and just knowing, knowing even in the unknown that you are able to help and change someone's whole trajectory by what you're doing. So that's why just really using the, the purpose as the answer versus the actual job title would probably be a helpful reminder.

• 1:04:21Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, yeah, we just, Lilly, stay encouraged.

• 1:04:24Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:04:25Michelle Obama?

  You know, and you're just in your twenties. And you know, you, you have time to be so many different things. I just want Lilly and all young people out there to know. It just feels like as we get questions from young people, there's so much pressure to feel like they're supposed to have all the answers at a time when I'm 60 and I'm still like, I don't know nothing. So all I, you know, I want, I want our young listeners and the, the parents and friends of young people who are struggling with their, their why and feeling like they're off course when they've just started. Yeah. It's like be easier on yourself and understand that there are many opportunities

• 1:05:10Michelle Obama?

  to recreate yourself and to keep growing, you're gonna have to. Right. You know, that's the fun part of life is that there are many chapters to come and there's no right answer. So I want Lily to stay encouraged, but to take care of herself. So if she's feeling burnt out, find a way to get a break so that she can think clearly. Now, cause what it is hard to do is make determinations, you know, sensible determinations about what you want for your life when you're not at your best mental state. That's right. So, and that's true no matter what you do. Yeah. You gotta take care of your mental health. You gotta take care of your physical health so that you have some clarity to figure out the next moves.

• 1:05:55Michelle Obama?

  Yeah. So. Really.

• 1:05:58Craig Robinson?

  Thanks Lily from Virginia.

• 1:05:59Michelle Obama?

  Thank you Lily, good luck. Yes. And Victoria, thank you. Thank you. You guys so much. You are a little wise one. Well, thank you. You know, at this table, you're a baby. I'm sorry, even though you're grown and mature in the industry. I like being a baby. Hold on to it. Hold on. But you are a wise baby. Thank you so much. You know, I mean, it has really been a pleasure just to hear what's going on inside that head of yours.

• 1:06:28Craig Robinson?

  Hazel is very lucky.

• 1:06:30Michelle Obama?

  Yes, she is.

• 1:06:31Craig Robinson?

  To have you.

• 1:06:32Michelle Obama?

  I really appreciate it.

• 1:06:33Craig Robinson?

  And to have your tribe too. Because it sounds like it's a healthy group.

• 1:06:38Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:39Craig Robinson?

  It's a healthy group.

• 1:06:41Michelle Obama?

  I agree. It's curated and, and God.

• 1:06:43Speaker 00

  Did his thing, so I appreciate it.

• 1:06:45Michelle Obama?

  But we're gonna keep an eye on you. You got any new music coming out? Anything we should know? Any T2 drop?

• 1:06:52Speaker 00

  T2 drop? I'm actually working on the next project right now. After the book tour, I am actually locking away in the studio. And the rest of the year is just music, music, music. So I'm excited about that.

• 1:07:05Michelle Obama?

  Well, we consider you a part of the IMO family. You and Hazel. Tell Hazel I said, "Hey."

• 1:07:10Speaker 00

  I sure will, and her Chanel.

• 1:07:12Michelle Obama?

  And her Chanel. What did you call her?

• 1:07:14Speaker 00

  Her banal. Banal?

• 1:07:16Michelle Obama?

  Her banal. I wish you all the best. We're gonna keep an eye on you. Anytime you want to come on and, you know, throw down some more wisdom, we would love to have you.

• 1:07:28Speaker 00

  Thank you so much for having me. It was an honor to speak with you both.

• 1:07:31Michelle Obama?

  And keep representing. Keep showing up as a fabulous young woman, young mother, young professional.

• 1:07:58Craig Robinson?

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