Riley Keough: Nepo babies, Addiction & Grief (FBF)

Join Alex in the studio for an interview with Riley Keough. Riley reflects on her unconventional childhood as Elvis’ granddaughter, discusses her famous friendships with Dakota Johnson and Zoë Kravitz, and reveals the time she secretly got arrested. She also opens up about her complicated mother daughter dynamic and experiences with commitment issues, addicts, and grief.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Alex Cooper?

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• 0:45Alex Cooper?

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• 1:29Alex Cooper?

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• 2:10Alex Cooper?

  What is up daddy gang? It is your founder. Father Alex Cooper with Call Her Daddy.

• 2:19Alex Cooper?

  Riley Keo, welcome to Call Her Daddy.

• 2:20Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 2:21Alex Cooper?

  I am such a big fan. Thank you for being here.

• 2:25Speaker 01

  Thank you for having me.

• 2:26Alex Cooper?

  Of course. I huge Daisy Jones and the Six girl.

• 2:29Speaker 01

  Oh, cool.

• 2:30Alex Cooper?

  Like binged the whole thing and sitting. Loved it.

• 2:33Speaker 01

  Thanks for watching.

• 2:34Alex Cooper?

  My husband was like, you could take a break. I'm like, no, no, it's kind of one of those where you just gotta get.

• 2:38Speaker 01

  Keep going.

• 2:39Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, I gotta get to the end. It was awesome. What was your favorite part of playing that role?

• 2:44Speaker 01

  I think getting to learn like to sing and play guitar was my favorite part because it was that I think that's one of my favorite things about acting in general is learning like a whole new skill set. And this one was like very in like, normally you do a few rehearsals or do if you're, you know, training to do, I don't know, to be a dancer or whatever. I don't know. Like I've never done something so involved. Like I haven't had to fully learn to like, sing and play guitar. So I found that really fun.

• 3:18Alex Cooper?

  Wait, you were doing like full voice lessons?

• 3:20Speaker 01

  We were doing, yeah, like we had band practice every day and it was like a year long.

• 3:29Speaker 01

  But we needed it. Like none of us, not none of us, a few of us had never picked up an instrument and or sang.

• 3:36Alex Cooper?

  Was there ever a point in your life that you would have considered a music career?

• 3:40Speaker 01

  Never.

• 3:41Alex Cooper?

  No.

• 3:41Speaker 01

  Never. No, I still would never. I'm not a singer.

• 3:45Alex Cooper?

  I feel like you have a good voice unless they auto tune it.

• 3:47Speaker 01

  It's fine. They didn't auto tune it, but I have a fine voice. I just got by, but I, I, I'm a realist and I know I'm not a singer.

• 3:56Alex Cooper?

  The fact that you're telling me they didn't edit your voice, you have a good voice.

• 4:00Speaker 01

  They didn't edit it, I think.

• 4:03Alex Cooper?

  You called them. They're like, oh babe, that shit was auto tuned.

• 4:07Speaker 01

  I think they, I don't think they auto tuned it. I think the whole point was because it was meant to sound 1970s that you wouldn't do that.

• 4:13Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, you sounded gorgeous. Okay.

• 4:15Speaker 01

  I, I, I felt proud that I was able to do it because there was like a conversation about potentially getting like vocal stunt.

• 4:25Speaker 01

  Doubles.

• 4:27Alex Cooper?

  Oh my god.

• 4:28Speaker 01

  And so I felt really determined to make it work and I feel proud. We made it work, you know, I, I don't think I'm like the best singer in the world and I, you know, that's fine.

• 4:37Alex Cooper?

  You made it work with.

• 4:38Speaker 01

  I made it work.

• 4:39Alex Cooper?

  Um, I love how you're like, oh, like I, no, no, no, I like never sang. From my research, you and Dakota Johnson were in a band together in New York City. Don't lie to my face.

• 4:50Speaker 01

  This is so funny. This comes up so often and like, I think that we need to do something here because yes, we were in a band, but the band was me and her sitting with her brother around a table in her apartment in New York with photo booth, like doing covers of songs. But here's the thing, neither of us were competent singers. So we would just kind of like all sing together.

• 5:13Alex Cooper?

  Oh, so you were, you were all competing for like the lead role.

• 5:16Speaker 01

  We were all the lead.

• 5:16Alex Cooper?

  You're all the lead. Wait, what was the band called?

• 5:20Speaker 01

  Fokie porn.

• 5:21Alex Cooper?

  Fokie porn?

• 5:22Speaker 01

  For Call Her Daddy.

• 5:23Alex Cooper?

  Wait, I'm obsessed. I had a band at one point and I was like so committed.

• 5:28Speaker 01

  Did you really?

• 5:28Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, but it was so bad.

• 5:29Speaker 01

  What did you do?

• 5:30Alex Cooper?

  So, yeah, well, here's the thing, you know, I, I started as like the electric guitarist.

• 5:36Speaker 01

  Cool.

• 5:37Alex Cooper?

  But that is like loosely saying that. The only song I could.

• 5:41Speaker 01

  Loose electric guitar?

• 5:41Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 5:42Speaker 01

  I relate. I'm a loose guitar player.

• 5:46Alex Cooper?

  I like looked incredible holding it.

• 5:48Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 5:49Alex Cooper?

  But the minute I would get going, it was, I was giving nothing.

• 5:52Speaker 01

  Right.

• 5:52Alex Cooper?

  I knew how to play the like,

• 5:58Alex Cooper?

  whatever that song is, I could do those like three little things. That was all I knew. Our band was called The Aliens.

• 6:04Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 6:04Alex Cooper?

  It was a big deal. It was in my basement and then we changed it to Green Jelly.

• 6:09Speaker 01

  Cool. Were the other people in the band also loose musicians?

• 6:13Alex Cooper?

  Everyone was loose.

• 6:14Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 6:16Alex Cooper?

  Everyone was loose.

• 6:17Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 6:17Alex Cooper?

  We were kind of just there for the vibes.

• 6:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:19Alex Cooper?

  Our sign was on like printer paper with like a little marker.

• 6:23Speaker 01

  Right.

• 6:24Alex Cooper?

  It was edgy. It was the thing. I actually paid my neighbors at one point, like 25 cents to come watch us perform.

• 6:30Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 6:31Alex Cooper?

  They were upset that we wasted their time. So like, I'm a big band girl.

• 6:36Speaker 01

  So Dakota and I didn't get like that far into it. We kind of like, it lasted maybe like three days.

• 6:42Alex Cooper?

  Oh my god.

• 6:43Speaker 01

  And then it was over. The band broke up.

• 6:47Alex Cooper?

  Good to know. Good to know. We, how did you guys know each other? Like, when did you become friends?

• 6:51Speaker 01

  Uh, we became friends because we both grew up in LA and just there was some kind of, I had a friend who was friends with her boyfriend and we met at like an In-N-Out parking lot. And then we went to all the same parties in, in LA at like 16, 17 and I'd see her out and about. And then I became friends with her boyfriend. And then, so I went to go see his band play. And she was always there and she was like the coolest girl.

• 7:19Alex Cooper?

  The coolest.

• 7:19Speaker 01

  The coolest.

• 7:20Alex Cooper?

  She still is.

• 7:21Speaker 01

  She is. And then we just, I don't know, became friends and.

• 7:24Alex Cooper?

  Don't you love when like people are obsessed with like celebrity friendships? We're like, no, no, come on, tell us more. We're like, we're just friends.

• 7:31Speaker 01

  Hung out.

• 7:32Alex Cooper?

  We're at In-N-Out.

• 7:33Speaker 01

  Sometimes we hang out and talk on the phone.

• 7:37Alex Cooper?

  I think cause it makes people feel like closer to you guys of like, you guys are obviously both like very cool, interesting people. And so I think to know that you guys are friends, people like, I'm like, come on, give me more tea.

• 7:48Speaker 01

  I can give you tea. I just don't really have any, but if there's, there's anything you can think of.

• 7:52Alex Cooper?

  I'm gonna get it out of you.

• 7:53Speaker 01

  I'm a tea giver.

• 7:54Alex Cooper?

  Okay, okay, good. You did show up today and be like, we don't have to cry.

• 7:58Speaker 01

  I, I, I just don't want you to feel pressure.

• 8:01Alex Cooper?

  I don't want you to feel pressure at all. If you hate any of my questions, let me know.

• 8:07Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 8:07Alex Cooper?

  We can pivot.

• 8:08Speaker 01

  Deal.

• 8:08Alex Cooper?

  Okay, good. Um, how do you think?

• 8:10Speaker 01

  Hey.

• 8:11Alex Cooper?

  What?

• 8:11Speaker 01

  Hey.

• 8:13Alex Cooper?

  I'm like, let's sit in silence. I do love that you were 30 minutes old, like early and you brought no one.

• 8:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:20Alex Cooper?

  Can I tell you, I've had people come to my studio with like a whole 20 people, 10 people, five people. But the solo.

• 8:29Speaker 01

  Solo is a first. Um, here's my answer. I'm not like technically on like a press tour right now. So I'm not, I have, I, I have no problem going places all by myself, you know?

• 8:42Alex Cooper?

  I love that for you.

• 8:43Speaker 01

  And I like, I actually enjoy it.

• 8:45Alex Cooper?

  I am the same way. Whenever I go on a podcast, which is rare, I'm like, no one come with me.

• 8:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:50Alex Cooper?

  I'm gonna let it rip.

• 8:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:51Alex Cooper?

  Let God go with me.

• 8:52Speaker 01

  The cool thing about not having a publicist here, so I can say whatever I want.

• 8:57Alex Cooper?

  For sure. Then she's gonna call you after and be like, what was it? You're like, I don't remember. We talked for almost an hour. Like, who knows?

• 9:03Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 9:03Alex Cooper?

  Just let it be. You know what I mean? It's fine. You're not gonna get canceled from this. Um, how would your friends describe you?

• 9:09Speaker 01

  Oh my gosh, that's such a hard question. I don't know. I have no idea. Like in what way? Like this, like a

• 9:17Alex Cooper?

  Like, how would they describe you? Like, if Dakota was in the room right now, like, what would she say about you? Oh, we should, we could call her also.

• 9:22Speaker 01

  Do you want to?

• 9:23Alex Cooper?

  Let's call her.

• 9:23Speaker 01

  Hold on.

• 9:24Alex Cooper?

  That will be fucking funny. Go get your phone.

• 9:27Speaker 01

  So she didn't answer.

• 9:29Alex Cooper?

  Okay, let's call another friend.

• 9:30Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 9:30Alex Cooper?

  All you're asking is, how would you describe me as a friend?

• 9:32Speaker 01

  How would you describe me?

• 9:33Alex Cooper?

  I'm on a show. Give me a good answer.

• 9:35Speaker 01

  So do you want them to be famous or not?

• 9:37Alex Cooper?

  I mean, famous is fun. Famous is more fun. They're like, I'll call John.

• 9:41Speaker 01

  It's so funny, because people, every, I do this a lot of the ti- a lot, and where people will be like, how would your friends, or what friends could we speak to about you for this interview? And I give like my, all my closest friends, and they're like, but what about like famous ones?

• 9:54Alex Cooper?

  They're like, they're like, no, no, no, we don't care about Cassidy.

• 9:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, they're like, we don't, we don't want, you know, yeah.

• 9:59Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 10:00Speaker 01

  So funny. Okay. Should I try Zoe Kravitz?

• 10:04Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, let's give her a go.

• 10:05Speaker 01

  The Nepo baby phone?

• 10:06Alex Cooper?

  I'm obsessed.

• 10:10Speaker 02

  Oh, my God, hello?

• 10:11Speaker 01

  Hi, wait, you're on air.

• 10:20Alex Cooper?

  Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Ross. Fall is about finding pieces you love, making them your own, and creating looks and spaces just right for the season. Whether you're updating a small apartment or a spacious home, drawn to timeless neutrals, or bold seasonal touches, Ross makes it easy to imagine what's next and bring your fall vision to life. Ross makes fashion accessible to all with up to 20 to 60% off other retailers' prices on the brands you love. Find your nearest Ross at rossstores.com. Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Shopify. Daddy gang, you know I'm a little skeptical of the internet at times, aren't we all?

• 11:03Alex Cooper?

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• 11:45Alex Cooper?

  And this has been such a game changer for Unwell. I love being able to sell merch directly on all the Call Her Daddy channels. So everything is in one place for the daddy gang. So, ready to add entrepreneur to your list of accomplishments? Head to Shopify.com/daddy. That's Shopify.com/daddy.

• 12:06Speaker 02

  Hello. I'm chewing, sorry.

• 12:09Alex Cooper?

  So, what are you eating?

• 12:10Speaker 01

  What are you eating?

• 12:12Speaker 02

  I'm eating toast. I'm eating raisin toast.

• 12:16Alex Cooper?

  So good.

• 12:16Speaker 02

  Raisin toast with butter.

• 12:18Speaker 01

  Okay, so I'm on a podcast and they asked me to call a friend to describe how you would describe me.

• 12:23Alex Cooper?

  As a friend.

• 12:24Speaker 01

  As a friend.

• 12:25Speaker 02

  As a friend, I would describe you as a ride or die. Like you are down for whatever. You will always, you show up all the time. You're very consistent. Like maybe like me and you will like not talk or see each other for like six months. And then it's like, we just pick up where we left off. And I think you're really good at keeping secrets.

• 12:47Speaker 01

  Gonna tell those on this pod.

• 12:50Speaker 02

  You're like, actually.

• 12:53Speaker 02

  And you're incredibly loyal and you're funny. You're funny as hell. And you're honest.

• 13:03Speaker 01

  Keep going.

• 13:04Speaker 02

  You always text me back.

• 13:06Speaker 01

  That's so cute.

• 13:07Speaker 02

  It's true.

• 13:08Speaker 01

  I think so.

• 13:09Speaker 02

  You're welcome.

• 13:10Speaker 01

  All right. Love you.

• 13:12Alex Cooper?

  Love you. Bye.

• 13:13Speaker 01

  Bye.

• 13:14Speaker 02

  All right, one more, one more.

• 13:16Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 13:17Speaker 02

  You're just like, you're such a bitch. You're just like a bitch.

• 13:19Speaker 01

  You're a bitch? Really? Really?

• 13:24Speaker 02

  You're the nicest person in the world.

• 13:26Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 13:28Speaker 01

  Okay, love you too.

• 13:31Alex Cooper?

  I'm obsessed. Thank you for doing that. First of all, imagine if you're like, I'm just kidding, I'm not on a podcast. I'm just like feeling needy today. Keep going.

• 13:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, right.

• 13:39Alex Cooper?

  Okay, those, that feels pretty accurate.

• 13:42Speaker 01

  I don't know. I didn't really hear much. She said I was loyal.

• 13:45Alex Cooper?

  She said you were loyal.

• 13:46Speaker 01

  I blacked out.

• 13:46Alex Cooper?

  Really good at keeping secrets.

• 13:50Alex Cooper?

  You're like, no, no, I am on air. Don't say anything crazy.

• 13:52Speaker 01

  I got nervous of what she was gonna say.

• 13:54Alex Cooper?

  No, all of that was lovely.

• 13:55Speaker 01

  Oh, good.

• 13:56Alex Cooper?

  And I, when she said you were a bitch, I'm like, that is the completely opposite of what I'm getting. You're, you are very like gentle soul.

• 14:03Speaker 01

  Thank you. Um, I think that I would say I would, I am a loyal friend. I, I do really care about my friends and, you know, I love, hope, I, I think.

• 14:16Alex Cooper?

  Allegedly. Allegedly. Um, okay, let's talk about the book. It is so fascinating, like what you wrote about.

• 14:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:24Alex Cooper?

  Um, From Here to the Great Unknown. First of all, just to like tell the daddy gang, my audience, like, how did this book come to be?

• 14:32Speaker 01

  This book came to be because my mother was, um, in the middle of writing her autobiography. And in December, she came to me and said, um, you know, I need help. Like she couldn't, she, she didn't really, I think she just got to a point where she was feeling frustrated and, and she, she didn't like talking about herself. So writing an autobiography was difficult and she asked if I would help her. Um, and then she passed away a month later. So I just found myself like, it was just this thing that I had to do. So I just completed her memoir, which was, you know, very intense.

• 15:15Alex Cooper?

  How long did it take you?

• 15:17Speaker 01

  Oh my gosh. Um, probably about a year. Yeah.

• 15:23Alex Cooper?

  Wow.

• 15:23Speaker 01

  Start to finish.

• 15:24Alex Cooper?

  How do you think like having that project to work on after your mom passed, like helped you work through your feelings?

• 15:32Speaker 01

  Well, I think that when I started working on the book, it was only like three, four months after she'd passed away. So it was very, uh, like intense and I didn't really want to be doing it, to be honest. Um, it felt like this thing I had to complete. And so I was a little bit resistant in the beginning and it's also like it's it's very out of my comfort zone to write a story or tell all the things like my family's personal, all these vulnerable things about my family.

• 16:05Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 16:06Speaker 01

  Um, it's not something that I would do otherwise, you know? So it was, there was a lot, I felt very, very resistant, but ultimately I was doing it for her and it's what she wanted and I, I knew how much she wanted to finish her autobiography and share her story, um, so people could understand her more and also so she could relate to people and she's been through so much and I think that largely why she did this was to kind of share her experience in grief and addiction and these very human things. And so, yeah, so I, I would say that I, I did it, but I wasn't like really excited to do it.

• 16:45Alex Cooper?

  No, I think like hearing you even say that is interesting when you said like my natural reaction isn't to just like spill all family secrets.

• 16:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:52Alex Cooper?

  And I think just to clarify for anyone that is not like familiar with like your family lineage, like you are Elvis's granddaughter, your mom was Elvis's only daughter.

• 17:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:03Alex Cooper?

  And so I get what you're saying is like, it's a very famous family that you come from. So to write basically like a big book being like, here's detail by detail what went down. Usually we don't get that from very famous families.

• 17:18Speaker 01

  Yes. And you know, uh, particularly in my family, growing up and with my mom, she was extremely private. She hated talking to the press. She didn't want to be famous. Like she was born into a situation she really didn't enjoy. Um, and growing up in the, the world we grew up in was very private, very secretive, very like everything was a security issue. Like there was no talking to friends about things, like our family stuff was, you know, everything was very private. So it was a lot of, uh, I had to push through that sort of uncomfortable feeling of like sharing all this information. But the other thing

• 18:02Speaker 01

  is, is like, as a person, I'm a very honest person and I also couldn't imagine, so was she, like she was. Uncomfortably honest. So I think I couldn't have imagined a version of her book where she didn't, you know, share all these things.

• 18:17Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, and like go all in.

• 18:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:19Alex Cooper?

  Your baby photo was sold for $300,000 on the cover of People Magazine. Like, that is insane in.

• 18:27Speaker 01

  What's insane is like, is like $300 then was like

• 18:30Alex Cooper?

  300,000.

• 18:31Speaker 01

  300,000, sorry. $300. It was like a million, like, oh, it cost you a million dollars?

• 18:36Alex Cooper?

  Like, you're so wanted.

• 18:38Speaker 01

  Well, well, used to be.

• 18:42Alex Cooper?

  Um, can you, like, looking back at your childhood, obviously growing up in this famous family, what is something that was definitely not normal that like you got pretty used to because you were just like, oh, I, I thought this was our reality?

• 18:55Speaker 01

  Like all of it. You know, like, if I, if I like, shared the day to day growing up, it would probably be like, you know, crazy to.

• 19:04Alex Cooper?

  Give us a little, come on.

• 19:05Speaker 01

  Well, it was just a lot of like thing, like it was very like high security and like, for going somewhere, it was like lots of people following us and very like intense and chaotic and like, going through, you know, I don't know, like.

• 19:19Alex Cooper?

  How are you so calm?

• 19:22Speaker 01

  I don't know. I, I'm not at all.

• 19:25Alex Cooper?

  You're like internally, I'm burning.

• 19:26Speaker 01

  Internally, I'm burning down all day.

• 19:30Alex Cooper?

  It's the external, you're keeping it all together, but internally?

• 19:34Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 19:34Alex Cooper?

  Okay, good to know. How would you have described yourself as a kid?

• 19:38Speaker 01

  I was very quiet, um, really internal. I wasn't, uh, I, I, I got called shy a lot, but I actually wasn't shy. I just was very internal. Like I just didn't have a lot to say and, and just was, yeah, I was very quiet. I, I was like that actually most of my life until I started to realize that people would perceive that as rude. So I really pushed myself to, to, you know. Come out of my shell.

• 20:07Alex Cooper?

  Like right now, I don't want to be talking, but I have a camera in front of me.

• 20:12Speaker 01

  Gotta be here.

• 20:13Alex Cooper?

  Hi, everyone. Oh, that's so interesting. So if like you're in, if you're going through something in your life, whether it's like a fight with your partner or a friend, like, do you just go silent?

• 20:23Speaker 01

  No.

• 20:24Alex Cooper?

  No.

• 20:24Speaker 01

  No, no, no. I'm very, I'm very emotional. I'm just not somebody like at a dinner party.

• 20:30Alex Cooper?

  Got it.

• 20:31Speaker 01

  If a lot of people are talking, I prefer to listen. It's just that. It's not like I'm like, internalized. I'm very, I'm very, uh, open with my emotions.

• 20:39Alex Cooper?

  Got it, got it.

• 20:40Speaker 01

  I'm just not like a big chatter.

• 20:42Alex Cooper?

  Love.

• 20:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:43Alex Cooper?

  Love. Welcome to an hour sitting down with me. Let's go, girl.

• 20:47Speaker 01

  I am now. I wasn't. I've grown. I've changed.

• 20:49Alex Cooper?

  You're doing great.

• 20:50Speaker 01

  I don't know. I hope.

• 20:52Alex Cooper?

  Where am I? Um, the book obviously switches between like your mom and her perspective and then yours.

• 20:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:58Alex Cooper?

  How do you think you guys were similar as teenagers?

• 21:02Speaker 01

  Wow. Um, I think I also had a moment of like rebbe- she had like her rebellious moment. I also had that, like where I would sneak out and, you know, hang out with people I shouldn't, wasn't allowed to and getting arrested and, you know.

• 21:19Alex Cooper?

  You got arrested?

• 21:20Speaker 01

  I did.

• 21:20Alex Cooper?

  Is it the mugshot bad? You're like, wait, this is why I'm publicist.

• 21:25Speaker 01

  Where's my publicist?

• 21:26Alex Cooper?

  Come in. No one's here to save you. Wait, that's kind of like.

• 21:30Speaker 01

  I, I was arrested once. Yeah.

• 21:32Alex Cooper?

  Is it good mugshot?

• 21:34Speaker 01

  I never saw it.

• 21:35Alex Cooper?

  What?

• 21:35Speaker 01

  I know.

• 21:36Alex Cooper?

  You need to make T-shirts.

• 21:37Speaker 01

  I know. I was a minor, so luckily I think it was like.

• 21:40Alex Cooper?

  So it's like an underage?

• 21:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:42Alex Cooper?

  A lot of people that I know got those. Those were like, I was like so terrified to get one because I like needed to go play like soccer. And if you had one, you couldn't play. It was a whole thing.

• 21:52Speaker 01

  Right.

• 21:52Alex Cooper?

  But like, I was there.

• 21:53Speaker 01

  You got, you got a mugshot. You didn't get.

• 21:55Alex Cooper?

  I didn't get a mugshot. But now in hindsight, I'm like, oh, would have been like a little edgy.

• 22:00Speaker 01

  So I had an edgy moment.

• 22:03Alex Cooper?

  For just drinking?

• 22:04Speaker 01

  It was for.

• 22:05Alex Cooper?

  Oh, God.

• 22:06Speaker 01

  I can't say this. I thought it was for breaking and entering.

• 22:09Alex Cooper?

  Wait, what? Where?

• 22:11Speaker 01

  Um, so it was actually, so.

• 22:16Speaker 01

  I went to a party at my friend's house.

• 22:19Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 22:20Speaker 01

  But I didn't know that it wasn't my friend's house. It was a house for sale.

• 22:27Speaker 01

  And so, most people, like the police came and most people like got away and then about 10 of us got arrested. My mom was pissed.

• 22:39Alex Cooper?

  Did she try to like get it not in the papers?

• 22:42Speaker 01

  No, she was like, this is on you, girl.

• 22:47Speaker 01

  Luckily, it didn't get, it wasn't in the papers.

• 22:50Alex Cooper?

  Was your mom someone that would punish you? Like, are you getting grounded?

• 22:53Speaker 01

  I was grounded. Oh, yeah. I was grounded for like three months. And I was grounded on my like 16th or 15th birthday or something. Yeah.

• 23:01Alex Cooper?

  That's tough.

• 23:01Speaker 01

  I was grounded and she was in Las Vegas and I had to call her and tell her to come back from Vegas and pick me up in prison. I've never told anyone this.

• 23:14Alex Cooper?

  You're like, Mom, I'm in jail. She's like, I'm on the strip, bitch. What?

• 23:20Speaker 01

  So she, she's like, I can't get there. So she sent my aunt to come get me and, uh, so, you know, I had a moment. I had a mo- like a moment as a teenager and she also did.

• 23:31Alex Cooper?

  Love. Yeah. Love. Okay. Um, you write a lot about like the different relationships that your mom had romantically throughout your childhood. When you were five, your parents got divorced because your mom wanted to marry Michael Jackson. How was this explained to you as a kid, like that they were getting divorced?

• 23:50Speaker 01

  So my mom, I was like, we were in Florida and I was sitting on her lap and she said, I'm, me and your dad are getting a divorce. And I took, like, the way I received it was that he wasn't my dad anymore.

• 24:06Speaker 01

  And it was like, it's so memorable to me because I just was destroyed. I didn't understand what a divorce was. So I just thought like, he's not my dad now. Um, but the great thing was shortly after, like they were so close and they really cared about keeping them, you know, our family dynamic the same. So he was at our house and staying over. And so he was there a lot. So I think I kind of forgot about it, which was.

• 24:31Alex Cooper?

  So you got to see like a very loving relationship between the two of them, even though they got divorced.

• 24:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, like a really unique, like it was a very unique experience. Especially in the nineties, you know, to have both of your parents

• 24:48Speaker 01

  sort of like brother and sister really close, living together. He lived with us for a lot of my life when my mom had other partners and other uh husbands. Um, he would live in the guest house and so my, what was modeled to me was when you break up with someone, you stay friends with them. Um, and I, I really like apply that to most of my relationships because that was kind of all that I, that was what I saw with my parents and um, it was really beautiful. I mean, they were, they were like best friends and I don't know if they should have been married.

• 25:22Alex Cooper?

  We, when you break up with someone or they break up with you and you're staying friends with them, have any of your past relationships been like Riley? Like we broke up, why are, like, are you still trying to say so amicable and are people ever confused by like how amicable you are?

• 25:39Speaker 01

  No, because I think that like it was never a forced thing. I think I just, I don't know how I did it. That there were, there was like one relationship that there was, you know, no friendship there, but for the most part, all the other ones, I don't even know. It wasn't, I wasn't like consciously thinking about it. We just ended up friends.

• 26:00Alex Cooper?

  And it's just kind of like how you were raised to think that's how you go about it, which is probably in hindsight, like a, I don't know. Do we think it's a better way to go about it?

• 26:09Speaker 01

  Well, my feeling was always like, this is a person that I love, that I spent a lot of time with. Why wouldn't I have them in my life?

• 26:15Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 26:16Speaker 01

  If, you know, unless it was like some like crazy unhealthy situation.

• 26:21Alex Cooper?

  Yes.

• 26:21Speaker 01

  Um, of course it's uncomfortable for a minute, but I think ultimately if it's someone that I really cared that much about,

• 26:29Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 26:29Speaker 01

  then I'd want them in my life somehow.

• 26:32Alex Cooper?

  We just skirted past the big name, Michael Jackson.

• 26:35Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 26:35Alex Cooper?

  Let's go back for a second. So on top of like your family already being obviously so famous, how did your life get even crazier when Michael entered the picture? Cause he had his own slew of like paparazzi and people following him and a media empire essentially.

• 26:51Speaker 01

  Mm hmm. Our life wasn't crazier because that was already there, that already existed, like the press and the crazy, the paparazzi and the, you know, all that. Um, but her life, I think when she saw Michael's life, there were things that he had that she didn't have. Like she didn't have a plane at the time or you know, things like that. And so her, she want, she then was like, oh, I'm, I should have a plane and I should have a, you know, this and that. And so our life in that way kind of

• 27:21Alex Cooper?

  Got bigger.

• 27:22Speaker 01

  Got bigger. Cause she, before that she was with my dad and my dad, their life was very simple. Not, not with the press and the craziness, but in terms of like at home, like she didn't have 10 million assistants and you know, she didn't need all, all of that. And I think that changed.

• 27:38Alex Cooper?

  How did your mom try to protect you and your brother from the paparazzi during all this?

• 27:42Speaker 01

  It's so funny because I get tagged in these photos all the time where we're wearing like a hat and glasses. And I'm like, what does that do? It's so weird.

• 27:51Alex Cooper?

  Stunning.

• 27:52Speaker 01

  Like, like a hiding, I don't know. Like, I guess they attempted to hide our faces, but it was like impossible.

• 27:58Alex Cooper?

  What is the most like extravagant thing Michael did for you and your brother?

• 28:02Speaker 01

  There was a lot of like, um, closing down things for us. Um, well, it was kind of like the only way that our family could do things. Like, uh, if we wanted to go to a toy store or like something like that, like, or ride rides or, you know, so, so it wasn't, I don't know if it was necessarily done for us or if just for like our family situation where we had to shut the, you know, the toy stores and stuff, but there was one memorable time in London where, um, we were in the toy store. So it was just my brother and I in the whole toy store. And we were just like going floor to floor to floor and like filling up

• 28:44Speaker 01

  our thing. And yeah, that was the first thing that comes to mind, but I don't know if it was for us or just like the way that our life was, you know?

• 28:58Alex Cooper?

  Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Ross. Fall is about finding pieces you love, making them your own and creating looks and spaces just right for the season. Whether you're updating a small apartment or a spacious home, drawn to timeless neutrals, or bold seasonal touches, Ross makes it easy to imagine what's next and bring your fall vision to life. Ross makes fashion accessible to all with up to 20 to 60% off other retailers' prices on the brands you love. Find your nearest Ross at rossstores.com. Call Her Daddy is brought to you by the United States Virgin Islands, where every moment is naturally in rhythm. Whether you're exploring the historic sites in St. Thomas, snorkeling in the crystal

• 29:42Alex Cooper?

  clear waters of St. John, or exploring the cultural twin cities of St. Croix, you'll find yourself swept away by the rhythm of the islands. So why wait? Start planning your escape today and visit usvi.com. It's so interesting like hearing that because now I know obviously you have a daughter. Growing up with such lavish things around you, have you thought to yourself like that was so normal to you? And like, how are you going to parent differently than how your mom parented you?

• 30:12Speaker 01

  I think she was such a, she was an amazing parent and she wanted us to have, I think like her father did, these amazing experiences all the time. For me personally, I want, I think that the problem there could be for some that when you're used to so much, it's hard to find joy in simple things. And so I really want my children to be able to find joy in just, you know, playing in the backyard and doing normal kid stuff and not need like elephants and circus and you know, like all these things all the time.

• 30:54Speaker 01

  So that's probably what I would do differently, but um, I think her intention was really, you know, wanting to, to give everything she could to her kids.

• 31:03Alex Cooper?

  Have you had a hard time like finding happiness in the simple things since you were around such wealth and big moments?

• 31:11Speaker 01

  I think that there was a time in my life where I was like, oh, we're not gonna, you know, let me think of a good example of this, like.

• 31:24Speaker 01

  Like even going to dinner, growing up was like 50 people. It was like a big deal. Everything was a big deal all the time. So there was more of like a loneliness that would, that I experienced in my twenties when our life was a bit different of, um, I was just used to having so many people around and everything being so intense that I felt a little bit lonely, um, when it was, when my life was smaller, I think.

• 31:50Alex Cooper?

  I think that's like a relatable concept. I think like I always talk to my friends who, when you get older and you're like, life is changing and, and families and Thanksgivings, like even if you look at what we see in like Hallmark movies and everything, like the bigger seems happier, right? Like a big family at a table and everyone is there. And when you have a smaller unit, it feels like this isn't as fun. This isn't as, when really like it could be more intimate and you can have stronger connections and it's not, it doesn't mean it's not fun.

• 32:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:23Alex Cooper?

  But there's this feeling.

• 32:24Speaker 01

  It's that, it's that exact phenomenon, but like probably just a little different. But yes, it's like probably the same feeling you'd get if you, you know, came from a huge family and had big family gatherings all the time. And then it was just, you know, you or you moved somewhere and you're just like, what? This feels lonely.

• 32:42Alex Cooper?

  Absolutely. Um, obviously finishing, cause I have to acknowledge it with the Michael stuff. Like obviously before your mom's relationship with him, there were allegations of abuse and that he assaulted children. Then your mom went on to marry him and you spent a good amount of time with him. Like, were there any adults in your life that were like, wait, I don't know if you should be spending time at Neverland. I don't know if we want you to be there. Like was your dad nervous?

• 33:13Speaker 01

  I was never told anything. So even as, and it's actually not something I ever asked as an adult.

• 33:20Alex Cooper?

  Why do you think?

• 33:21Speaker 01

  I don't know. I think it just like was what it was. Like I didn't. I don't know, it just never came to mind, I guess. Um, I would imagine that my dad was really heartbroken and reading the news and I'm sure that, I'm just imagining.

• 33:36Alex Cooper?

  Of course.

• 33:37Speaker 01

  I would imagine he said all kinds of things to my mom, you know, that we didn't

• 33:42Alex Cooper?

  No.

• 33:43Speaker 01

  know about, but nothing like the, the way my parents parented was very much like, we don't fight around the kids, we don't ever say anything around them. There was no, like, we didn't know anything. We didn't know about any allegations, we didn't know, we had no awareness of that.

• 34:01Alex Cooper?

  As an adult, when you look back on that time of your life, like, how do you feel about it now?

• 34:06Speaker 01

  Um.

• 34:10Speaker 01

  I mean, the, the one thing I know is that they were in love and that their love for one another was genuine, you know, um, because I was there and I remember everything else, like, I, I don't know, because I wasn't there for, you know?

• 34:24Alex Cooper?

  When your mom would break up with these people and she would like find a different partner at some point in your life, like, how do you think that affected your own attachment style?

• 34:34Speaker 01

  That's really interesting. I definitely would be really upset, like, when she would break up with people, Michael, her other partners, I would cry, I'd get mad at her. Um, I really was upset, like, I'd get mad at her, I'd be pissed, you know? Um, not knowing what happened, but I was always just mad at my mom for the breakups, because, so it really affected me. Um, my attachment style, the one thing I know is that, like, throughout, through all of her relationships, everyone would always go, she should have stayed with Danny, who's my dad. And so I always have this voice in the back of my head that's like, she should have stayed with Danny and I,

• 35:18Speaker 01

  I know that she was, you know, someone who, when things got

• 35:26Speaker 01

  boring or mundane or difficult, she was like, see ya, you know? And, uh, I think that there's this part of me that feels like.

• 35:40Speaker 01

  I don't know, staying with. If you find, if you're so lucky to find somebody who is like your kind of best friend in the way that that they were to to try and like, you know,

• 35:53Alex Cooper?

  Make it work.

• 35:53Speaker 01

  Make it work.

• 35:54Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, that was what I thought was interesting in the book was like basically saying like when your mom was

• 36:00Alex Cooper?

  when she was passing, like, wasn't he like the last person there basically for her?

• 36:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:04Alex Cooper?

  And through all of these different relationships, didn't she date like Nicolas Cage? At one of these big moments that were press moments, but really the through line was like, it seems like your mom and dad like always kind of stayed by each other's side, which I can imagine for your own like romantic situation. I know you're married now, but like prior to your husband, were were you ever feeling that through line of like, oh, this is getting boring. I'm gonna run or have you, you know what I mean?

• 36:34Speaker 01

  I definitely had that when I was younger.

• 36:36Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 36:36Speaker 01

  When I was younger, I was very hard to pin down. I was not interested in, you know, sticking around.

• 36:45Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 36:45Speaker 01

  And I definitely like didn't have the best track record there. So that I think would tie to sort of my mom's way of like, you know, moving on once the the

• 36:56Alex Cooper?

  The thrill.

• 36:56Speaker 01

  The thrill is, you know, whatever that when I was a teenager, I was like a

• 37:02Alex Cooper?

  That makes sense.

• 37:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:03Alex Cooper?

  I'm curious, like, was there any part of you that was ever nervous to get married?

• 37:08Speaker 01

  No, which is so stupid.

• 37:12Speaker 01

  I was, I mean, I was young. I was 25 when I got married.

• 37:15Alex Cooper?

  Oh, my God.

• 37:15Speaker 01

  I was a little girl.

• 37:18Alex Cooper?

  And you weren't nervous?

• 37:19Speaker 01

  I wasn't nervous. I was so excited. I didn't, I, I didn't know what marriage was. I hadn't been in a relationship longer than three years, you know, like I, I didn't think about it.

• 37:29Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, I love that for you. I mean, that's like really interesting to hear because like I know why I love these type of conversations. It's like you never know what you're gonna get because some people could be in your situation being like, I was so petrified because I didn't want to do what my mom had done, or you know, you're gonna like play out what she was doing, but you're like, no, I like went right into it.

• 37:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, I didn't really think I was, yeah, it wasn't impulsive or anything. I just like knew that he was the person. I knew he was the person I was meant to have kids with. I just knew it. So I don't know. And neither of us were like. Neither of us ever put any pressure on it either. It wasn't like, we still don't. We're not like, our marriage will never fail and we're gonna be together till we're eighty. You know, like, we're both kind of like, if we ever were unhappy, we would get divorced.

• 38:14Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 38:15Speaker 01

  You know?

• 38:15Alex Cooper?

  You're realist.

• 38:15Speaker 01

  We're realists. We're like, whatever.

• 38:17Alex Cooper?

  You talk about how your mom was very open with you and that sometimes could feel like a curse. What do you mean by that?

• 38:25Speaker 01

  There were just not a lot of boundaries. It was very like, everyone knew everything about everybody.

• 38:30Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 38:30Speaker 01

  Um, and everyone was involved in everybody's. If I was breaking up with a boyfriend, like, she was involved, you know? Like, it was like that kind of a thing. Um, she, everyone, you know, my brother, my dad, like, we were very enmeshed, I think.

• 38:44Alex Cooper?

  Wow.

• 38:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:45Alex Cooper?

  So would you ever find yourself, though, like, roles reversed? I feel like sometimes people get to the point where they almost become the mother to their mother. Did you ever play therapist with your mom?

• 38:56Speaker 01

  Yes, I think that there was a certain point, probably in my mid twenties, when I sort of became more of the caretaker in the relationship. And I think it was around when she became addicted to opiates.

• 39:11Speaker 01

  Cause she was always sort of the, like, leader in our family. And then she had, you know, fell into her addiction. And at that point, I sort of, yeah, our, our dynamic changed a lot.

• 39:26Alex Cooper?

  Can we talk about that? Because so many friends, and I have these conversations now, I have people that write in, and it's like, such a mindfuck when you become the adult in the dynamic with your parent, because you're like, wait, no.

• 39:38Speaker 01

  It's inevitable.

• 39:39Alex Cooper?

  It's so weird and hard. And it's like, you have to have so, you either have to have so many conversations or you don't, and it just is what it is. And you're left feeling a little bit like an identity crisis because your parent, who you could always go to and be like the child to, you're kind of now like, wait, why are you relying on me so heavily for things that like?

• 40:01Speaker 01

  I think the weirdest part about it in my experience is they don't notice they're doing it.

• 40:06Alex Cooper?

  Yes.

• 40:06Speaker 01

  You know, and you're like, wait, no, how, who's seeing this?

• 40:12Alex Cooper?

  It's such an unsaid thing.

• 40:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:14Alex Cooper?

  No, you're so right. Like they're not aware, but you're aware.

• 40:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:18Alex Cooper?

  And I'm like,

• 40:19Speaker 01

  And that's like awkward because you can't say like, I don't want to be your parent.

• 40:24Alex Cooper?

  Like, grow up. Like, what is going on? And that's why I think it's such a mindfuck because then the people or the person that you're most likely going to in your past, go to, to complain about something like that is your mom.

• 40:37Speaker 01

  So you go to the other one.

• 40:38Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 40:39Speaker 01

  So you go to your dad.

• 40:41Alex Cooper?

  And then he's losing it too. And you're like, oh shit. Girl going insane. It's really interesting watching my parents get older now. I'm like,

• 40:49Speaker 01

  Do you feel like you have that dynamic with your parents?

• 40:51Alex Cooper?

  I started to in a moment and I have been doing a lot of therapy.

• 40:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:57Alex Cooper?

  And they have, like my mom and I have talked about like our therapy journeys because I'm like, we gotta try to not make this happen. Like we, even if we're equals as adults, but I think, and it's,

• 41:08Speaker 01

  What are the ways, if you're comfortable in sharing, that you find yourselves in that situation? Like how?

• 41:14Alex Cooper?

  I think like as basic as like calling me for help on everything where you're like, how did we get here? How did we get here?

• 41:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:27Alex Cooper?

  How did we get through life where?

• 41:29Speaker 01

  I have to say like, that is something that I really am going to try my best. I don't know if it's just inevitable, but like as a parent, like I don't ever want my kids to feel like they have to take care of me.

• 41:40Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 41:40Speaker 01

  Or unless they literally do.

• 41:43Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 41:44Speaker 01

  But I mean, like emotionally, you know, I don't want, I don't want my children to feel like my happiness is their responsibility.

• 41:53Alex Cooper?

  I feel the same way, but I also feel like so many people have that point of like, I'm going to do it so differently than my parents. And it feels like every generation says that. And then we keep fucking up.

• 42:05Speaker 01

  I think there's another, uh, you know, I think you just have to accept that you're going to do stuff wrong.

• 42:10Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 42:10Speaker 01

  And you're going to end up like your, your child is going to end up talking to the therapist about you. It's just part of being a parent. So I, for me, I just, I try and not, you know,

• 42:20Alex Cooper?

  Read into it.

• 42:20Speaker 01

  Read or read anything.

• 42:22Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 42:22Speaker 01

  At all.

• 42:23Alex Cooper?

  I don't read.

• 42:24Speaker 01

  I sit in silence. But I think there's so much pressure, you know, to improve on the future generations as, you know, whatever. And so I think, I don't know, I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about.

• 42:34Alex Cooper?

  No, it's such a, no, no, you're like, and pivot.

• 42:37Speaker 01

  And pivot.

• 42:38Alex Cooper?

  I know exactly what you're talking about. Also, I love that you, having a daughter, like, did your mom ever talk to you about the trauma and the grieving process of like, losing her father? And like, how she dealt with that? Cause I feel like you write a lot in the book of like, seeing her in a moment, like crying and drinking and crying over Elvis's death, but then it's like,

• 43:03Speaker 01

  she, she never talked about her grief. She only would talk about him. So she never would, I don't think she processed her grief. Like, I think that because her grief was so public, she would hide a lot of her feelings because she, they felt personal, like something she could keep to herself. So I think because of that, she didn't really talk about the grief so much. And I think as she, in her late 40s, and like when she was 50, she started realizing that she hadn't really ever talked about it to anybody.

• 43:38Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 43:38Speaker 01

  Which I think is also common with older generations, you know, nobody was talking about.

• 43:43Alex Cooper?

  At all.

• 43:44Speaker 01

  All their things.

• 43:53Alex Cooper?

  Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Ross. Fall is about finding pieces you love, making them your own and creating looks and spaces just right for the season. Whether you're updating a small apartment or a spacious home, drawn to timeless neutrals, or bold seasonal touches, Ross makes it easy to imagine what's next and bring your fall vision to life. Ross makes fashion accessible to all with up to 20 to 60% off other retailers' prices on the brands you love. Find your nearest Ross at rossstores.com. Call Her Daddy is brought to you by the United States Virgin. Islands where every moment is naturally in rhythm. Whether you're exploring the historic sites in St. Thomas,

• 44:36Alex Cooper?

  snorkeling in the crystal clear waters of St. John, or exploring the cultural twin cities of St. Croix, you'll find yourself swept away by the rhythm of the islands. So why wait? Start planning your escape today and visit usvi.com. You obviously have experienced grief. I mean, you lost your brother and your mom in a span of a couple of years, two years. How have you thought about like, how to process grief in terms of one for yourself, but also for your daughter? Cause right, like you watched your mom not be able to handle it till she was about 40, 50 and start to feel it. Like, have you taken different steps?

• 45:19Speaker 01

  The only like step that I've actively taken is to like feel my feelings.

• 45:24Alex Cooper?

  It's a good step. That's a good step, girl.

• 45:26Speaker 01

  Which is a lot harder than it sounds.

• 45:28Alex Cooper?

  Yes.

• 45:29Speaker 01

  You know? And some of them are, have been extremely unbearable. And whether that's grief or anxiety, sadness, like,

• 45:41Speaker 01

  I think that feeling my feelings is, has been the only conscious thing that I've done and trying to be present in my feelings.

• 45:50Alex Cooper?

  Could you give, just because I know there's so many people that do deal with family members that have addiction. Like, how did your relationship with your mom change when she became addicted to painkillers?

• 46:02Speaker 01

  Well, I've had a lot of family members who have had addiction issues that I will and won't say on air because it's their personal, you know, story, but more than just my mother.

• 46:15Speaker 01

  And it's been a really interesting life because I've been surrounded in a way with people suffering from addiction, but there's never anything I can really do about it.

• 46:28Speaker 01

  And it's, I have, I found myself kind of going like, what is the lesson here? Like to be around people harming themselves and, and nothing I do will change it. And so the only thing that I could do was surrender to what is, you know?

• 46:45Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 46:45Speaker 01

  And of course.

• 46:49Speaker 01

  I mean, with my mom, it was a, you know, years of me trying to drag her into, you know, rehab or get her help or like so much effort, you know? And thinking like, this is gonna be effective every time and, and not really being present in the fact that the person sitting across from me is not participating in my plan, you know? So I just was, I mean, that was, I, I tried really hard to, you know, keep all of these plates spinning. And then ultimately it resulted in like, you know, addiction sort of resulted in the loss of two of my family members.

• 47:31Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 47:31Speaker 01

  I was kind of forced to surrender. And I think that

• 47:38Speaker 01

  it's a really hard line because you, you can't do nothing.

• 47:43Speaker 01

  Because you feel like,

• 47:47Speaker 01

  you know, you have to, you, you, someone you love is suffering, you have to do everything you can to help alleviate the suffering. So I wouldn't necessarily like take back all of the effort that I put in. But it's just, just a weird

• 48:03Speaker 01

  lesson in like, I don't know, I don't know what, I actually don't know.

• 48:09Alex Cooper?

  I think that's a good answer though, because I feel like, I feel like there's so many people that go through it and you feel like you're kind of like going in circles at some point. It's like the same thing with, it's, it's a way more extreme version of when someone doesn't want to go to therapy and you're trying to get them to go to therapy. It's like, you can't make the person go to therapy, they don't, with addiction, it's like this person you can try to help, but at some point you also in a weird way have to like give yourself some grace that like.

• 48:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, something my mom always would say is she'd say tough love doesn't work. And that was, I didn't give tough love, that was, that's not part of who I am, but to other people around her who would try and like force, enforce things.

• 48:53Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 48:55Speaker 01

  And I really agree with that. Like, I don't think that personally, like unless the, unless the person is really causing harm.

• 49:04Speaker 01

  Or is is a threat to you and your safety or you know,

• 49:08Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 49:08Speaker 01

  Then that that is very different in addiction, but I never withdrew love in in moments of, you know, difficulty and through addiction. And I I I really believe that, you know, I think there's a lot of like, when you watch those TV shows that are like about, you know, whatever addicts and stuff and they're dragging them out of, you know, these are human beings that are in pain.

• 49:33Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 49:33Speaker 01

  So I think that um always operating from a place of empathy to me was always felt right.

• 49:40Alex Cooper?

  I, one of the things that you wrote in your book that I felt like was so sad for you because it goes back to that like isolating feeling was when you kind of talked about being seen as a narc by your family. You're like, I was, my brother is telling me to leave the club and I didn't know why. And I was like, oh, he's sending me home so he can start doing drugs in the club. And he didn't want you around. Like, how do you think that affected the way you acted around your family? Because I think the people that aren't doing the drugs, like I've had a situation like this where like someone trying to hide it from you. And then you also just kind of feeling like not wanted. And as much as you don't want to be a part of the drugs, you also feel like you're being alienated because you're the only

• 50:25Alex Cooper?

  quote unquote sober one.

• 50:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was a really strange experience because I never was, we were never having the same experience. Like in my experience, I was always being very, I was being firm, but I was always very gentle. And to them, it was like, you're making me feel so bad. Like they took it, everything was really uh uh was received.

• 50:49Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 50:49Speaker 01

  Really intensely. And it wasn't my experience. So I think there's so much like shame around addiction

• 50:57Speaker 01

  that um

• 51:00Speaker 01

  it's really hard to like uh have conver, you know, honest conversations.

• 51:06Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 51:07Speaker 01

  Um, but I, you know, like,

• 51:11Speaker 01

  I don't know. It wasn't like I'm in the room. Everybody's like leaving me out or something. You know, it was a, it was a slow burn.

• 51:18Alex Cooper?

  Yeah. When you went through this like two year span of grief, essentially, or like the beginning of, who did you lean on? Like, who do you go to when you're, you need someone to support you?

• 51:29Speaker 01

  I really leaned on people who had had similar experiences because it felt so isolating. I had friends who had lost loved ones in various ways and I found that to be the most comforting because I just wanted them to tell me that I was gonna be okay. You know, from someone who'd experienced it and say, like, you're gonna survive this. And, cause in the, in the moments, in the moment itself, particularly losing my brother, I, I didn't see a way that I could. So I, I wanted to just talk to people who had lost a sibling, had lost someone in a sort of more shocking sort of way, like the way I lost my brother, people who had experienced suicide.

• 52:13Speaker 01

  I, I just wanted to hear just from them. But then I had amazing, an amazing group of friends around me and husband. But it's, it's a really isolating experience.

• 52:24Alex Cooper?

  It is. I appreciate you talking about it. And I think that's what was wonderful about you writing about your experience in the book is like, like you saying you wanted to go to certain people that had experienced it because you, as much as you love certain friends, it's like if they don't under, if they've never gone through it, you're kind of like, okay, I don't need you to like, hold my hand right now. I literally need like answers.

• 52:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, I would go on, I would go on like Reddit. I would literally go on forums and go like, and just because it was, it was such an isolating experience and, and like read people's experiences and like blogs and like I talked, DM'd with people on Instagram who DM'd me, who had also lost their siblings. Like I would just, and talk to them and be like, did you feel this way? Did you feel this way? Cause it was so lonely.

• 53:06Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 53:07Speaker 01

  So I, anyone who had experienced it, I would literally.

• 53:10Alex Cooper?

  Talk to.

• 53:10Speaker 01

  Talk to.

• 53:11Alex Cooper?

  Oh my, you on Reddit?

• 53:12Speaker 01

  I know.

• 53:13Alex Cooper?

  I love that for you. Are you also a Reddit sleuth though?

• 53:16Speaker 01

  No, no, no. I'm not like, I'm not, I don't, I just do a Google. I'm not like deep, I don't have an account.

• 53:23Alex Cooper?

  You're like XXXR, FMNNQQ.

• 53:28Speaker 01

  Nark25.

• 53:31Alex Cooper?

  Imagine you're like the biggest Reddit sleuth and this all comes out one day. We find your account. No. Um, okay. I read that you're a certified death doula.

• 53:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:42Alex Cooper?

  Can you talk to me about what that entails and how you got into that?

• 53:45Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah, I got into it because a friend of mine was a death doula and um, because of what I was just saying, how I felt like when my brother died, there were no resources and I was literally going on Reddit.

• 53:55Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 53:56Speaker 01

  I found a community of people who worked in like the death world.

• 54:00Alex Cooper?

  Wow.

• 54:01Speaker 01

  And I didn't know that that existed and um, she was a death doula and I just thought if I could make myself of use at all to people who were experiencing anything like this, I, I would. So I, yeah, I did my death doula training and got certified. It's basically, it's essentially like what a birth doula is.

• 54:19Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 54:19Speaker 01

  For dying and you're um, taught how to be with the dying.

• 54:23Alex Cooper?

  Wow.

• 54:24Speaker 01

  Person.

• 54:25Alex Cooper?

  Do you find like that

• 54:28Alex Cooper?

  kind of also continues to heal you while you work with other people or is it at all triggering? If something is similar that they're going through, that you've been through?

• 54:38Speaker 01

  Um, it's, I wouldn't say triggering. I, I would say you're very empathetic. You know?

• 54:47Speaker 01

  It's hard to, you're, because you've experienced something, you, you're very much with them emotionally. Because it's, it's a shared lot, like a experience of grief.

• 54:59Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 54:59Speaker 01

  So, um, yeah, I think it's just, it's not that I'm triggered and thinking of my own situation, but I'm

• 55:10Speaker 01

  very much emotionally with

• 55:14Speaker 01

  the person.

• 55:14Alex Cooper?

  Yeah. When you were in the press with like all of that shit about the estate and everything and legal and all of this, like, how does it feel when your family is so publicly like in the news like that? And that I feel like was the first time you were at the forefront.

• 55:28Speaker 01

  So that's, that's actually true. Like, uh, my family's been, uh, since I, my first memories is my family's in the news 24/7.

• 55:36Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 55:37Speaker 01

  Like growing up, every, where I would go, my family are on the front of every magazine, like as, as a child, like that was very normal.

• 55:44Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 55:44Speaker 01

  But my mom received all of it. You know, um, when my mom died.

• 55:54Speaker 01

  That was the first time I received all of that.

• 55:56Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 55:57Speaker 01

  Energy, which was very intense. And I, it made me really empathize with her, you know, it, it's funny when I, I've been doing press for years, like I've been acting for a long time. And typically, it's a pretty good experience. When I went out to do press for this book,

• 56:18Speaker 01

  I really like, like the, the vibe I got from certain interviewers was aggressive. Like, tell me this thing. Tell me the answer to this. Why did this happen? Like a more like, like putting me on like in the hot seat kind of experience, which I've never like as an actor, I'm just having a nice time doing press, you know? And I was like, wow, because it's like related to my mom, I'm getting the energy my mom would get. You know, um.

• 56:46Alex Cooper?

  And it's so interesting. And maybe it's because of the name and how media was different back in the day. And there were just like the core tenants of who was famous and there weren't that many famous people. It almost is like they're carrying on that sense of entitlement in media of like, we deserve to know this and we will go to the end of the earth to get the picture and the shot and the information. And you're literally like, we.

• 57:09Speaker 01

  I'm like, wait, this does not happen anymore.

• 57:11Alex Cooper?

  I'm like, no, no. Nope. You're like, next question. You're like, wait, you can't say that.

• 57:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:17Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, I can.

• 57:17Speaker 01

  Do you want to fight?

• 57:20Alex Cooper?

  That's crazy.

• 57:21Speaker 01

  Um, yeah, but then I realized like, what she would have been dealing with.

• 57:25Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, it's so interesting. Like you're, it, every generation, it changes and it gets different. Like, and the way that you probably feel about your grandfather is so different than the way that your mother felt about her father. And how your daughter will feel about her grandfather, like this empire that he was.

• 57:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:42Alex Cooper?

  That's what's so interesting is reading this book and hearing you talk about it for most of us, like, this has been a very long time since Elvis was at the center of the conversation.

• 57:53Speaker 01

  It's really wild. Like I, I don't quite understand either. It's like, there's still movies all the time. Like, and I'm like, this is, you know, it's, it's, it's amazing that somebody could, you know, impact people so much. Like it's, it's really unique, you know? And I, you know, I really appreciate it because of course we love our family and. You know, want other people to as well, but I do, I do often go like, there's always like in my inbox, like this movie and that movie and Elvises. And I'm like, wow, it's really

• 58:25Alex Cooper?

  Still popping.

• 58:26Speaker 01

  Still popping.

• 58:28Alex Cooper?

  You're like, go, Grandpa.

• 58:32Alex Cooper?

  Um, okay. In a way with this book now finally being out, do you feel a sense of relief? Like, not that it's being put to bed, but you got to tell this story. And now it's like, the next chapter of your life is beginning.

• 58:46Speaker 01

  I, I do feel relief because it felt like this thing that I knew was coming that was going to be this big thing. And I did sort of want it to be over.

• 58:54Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 58:55Speaker 01

  You know, um, I think this is like my last podcast, by the way.

• 59:01Alex Cooper?

  You're like, I'm done.

• 59:01Speaker 01

  Going out with a bang.

• 59:02Alex Cooper?

  I love it. I love it.

• 59:04Speaker 01

  Um, and I, yeah, I don't want to think about my trauma all day, every day, you know?

• 59:12Alex Cooper?

  I feel like I didn't, we didn't get too crazy, right?

• 59:15Speaker 01

  No.

• 59:16Alex Cooper?

  You wanted to laugh more.

• 59:17Speaker 01

  No, I didn't want to, I don't, to be honest, I had no expectations.

• 59:21Alex Cooper?

  Did your friends think you were coming in to talk about sex?

• 59:24Speaker 01

  I literally, we can.

• 59:29Speaker 01

  I mean, I'm, I'm an open book.

• 59:31Alex Cooper?

  Maybe you're gonna have to come back on and we're gonna do like a different Call Her Daddy episode.

• 59:34Speaker 01

  Great.

• 59:35Alex Cooper?

  Where we get into the tea.

• 59:36Speaker 01

  We'll do a tea, we'll do a tea episode.

• 59:38Alex Cooper?

  A tea session. I'm very, very appreciative. Thank you so much for taking the time.

• 59:42Speaker 01

  Thank you for having me.

• 59:43Alex Cooper?

  I know this is like a lot, so thank you.

• 59:44Speaker 01

  No, I appreciate it.

• 1:00:00Alex Cooper?

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• 1:01:28Alex Cooper?

  Pandora makes it so easy to give a gift that feels thoughtful and personal, and makes every holiday moment even more meaningful and special. Because at the end of the day, the best gifts aren't just about the piece itself, but it's the intention and the story behind them. Say more this holiday season with Pandora. Shop now at pandora.net or visit your closest Pandora store.

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