How To Cope With A Friendship Break-Up - with Cynthia Nixon - Special Release

Cynthia Nixon joins Elizabeth to answer YOUR questions and failures including: whose failures would you most like to hear (dead or alive) how to cope with a friendship break up and how to know when to have kids. Elizabeth then takes a moment to reflect on meeting Cynthia, and everything they covered. To hear Cynthia tackling your failures join our community of subscribers here: https://howtofail.supportingcast.fm/#content Do you have something to share of your own? Click here to get in touch: howtofailpod.com Production & Post Production Coordinator: Eric Ryan Mix Engineer: Matias Torres Studio Engineer: Sam Bair Senior Producer: Hannah Talbot Executive Producer: Carly Maile How to Fail is an Elizabeth Day and Sony Music Entertainment Production. Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts To bring your brand to life in this podcast, email [email protected] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Elizabeth Day?

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• 0:45Elizabeth Day?

  to start your free trial. That's Shopify.co.uk/fail. Go to Shopify.co.uk/fail today to hear your first...

• 0:57Elizabeth Day?

  Hello, everyone. I wanted to share my Failing with Friends subscribe episode with Cynthia Nixon for all of you. Each week, my guest and I answer your failures and questions. It's a real candid moment where the spotlight is taken off my guest and they become your agony aunt or uncle. When you subscribe, you get a weekly Failing with Friends episode just like this one and ad-free access to all How to Fail episodes. Follow the link in the show notes to find out how you can subscribe. Thank you so much, and we can't wait to see you there.

• 1:39Elizabeth Day?

  Hello, dear subscribers, and welcome back to Failing with Friends. This is where we turn the mic over to you, and you have been busily sending in your questions, your pleas for advice, your failures, and we're so delighted. Thank you. Please keep them coming. This week, I'm joined by the effervescently wonderful Cynthia Nixon, and we've just been talking about green tea and how much we both love green tea. So if you want advice on green tea, I would suggest asking Cynthia, not me. I thought I knew a lot. She knows way more. I imagine you're exceptional at advice giving.

• 2:12Speaker 01

  I'm pretty good.

• 2:12Elizabeth Day?

  Yeah.

• 2:13Speaker 01

  I'm pretty good.

• 2:14Elizabeth Day?

  I get that. And also, your mother sounded like she was so great.

• 2:16Speaker 01

  My mother was a very wise person. Yes, yes.

• 2:19Elizabeth Day?

  Okay, so Anne via Instagram asks, whose failures would you most like to hear about?

• 2:26Speaker 01

  Oh, my goodness.

• 2:26Elizabeth Day?

  You can have anyone dead or alive.

• 2:28Speaker 01

  Anyone dead? Well, I always want to hear about Shakespeare's everything.

• 2:32Elizabeth Day?

  Yes.

• 2:33Speaker 01

  It's just anything, you know, if you want, ask me whose hats I wanted to hear about, or whose lunches I wanted to hear about. Anything, any information I get on Shakespeare would be good. I have to also say, I would like to hear about, I would like to hear about Donald Trump's failures if he thinks he has any. I would like to give him, I would like to take Wonder Woman's magic lasso and tie it around him so he would have to tell the truth.

• 2:59Elizabeth Day?

  Yes.

• 2:59Speaker 01

  And then I would like to hear.

• 3:01Elizabeth Day?

  We would love that, too. I often get asked whether I would consider having someone like Donald Trump on the podcast, or when we had Boris Johnson as Prime Minister, whether I would have him. And my answer is always, I don't think they're self-aware enough. I don't think they would see.

• 3:16Speaker 01

  Acknowledge their failure.

• 3:17Elizabeth Day?

  Yeah. And I think there's a specific issue with a certain kind of straight white man, where social conditioning has made them feel they can't admit to failure because vulnerability is seen wrongly as weakness. But also, that sense that you're born into a world that's still built in your image.

• 3:32Speaker 01

  Right.

• 3:33Elizabeth Day?

  So your success is sort of guaranteed.

• 3:35Speaker 01

  Right, that's what they say about Donald Trump, right? He was born on third base and he thought he hit a home run.

• 3:39Elizabeth Day?

  Exactly.

• 3:40Speaker 01

  Right.

• 3:40Elizabeth Day?

  Whereas if you're a marginalized person in any way.

• 3:42Speaker 01

  Do you understand baseball metaphors?

• 3:44Elizabeth Day?

  Barely, but I just was being polite.

• 3:48Speaker 01

  I think, I will say the one thing, though, that, you know, if I had things to do over again, I would, I think I would have tried a lot more things that I didn't try and do because I was afraid of failing at them.

• 4:07Elizabeth Day?

  That is such a profound piece of insight.

• 4:10Speaker 01

  I really think, you know, in terms of, look, I've had a wonderful career and I've played so many wonderful parts, but I feel like particularly when I was a young person. There were, you know, I didn't put in the extra effort because I didn't want to seem to be wanting something that then they said, you're not good enough.

• 4:32Elizabeth Day?

  Yes, that's so relatable.

• 4:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:34Elizabeth Day?

  Actually, it really reminds me, I've never spoken to anyone about this and it's so weird that it's come up now. Amadeus, as you know, is one of my favorite films.

• 4:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:44Elizabeth Day?

  And I had never seen the play, but when I went to university and I loved acting and I was stellar in my school production of A Streetcar Named Desire, I went to university and they were putting on Amadeus, the play. And I was like, I'm going to try out for the part of Mozart's wife. And I went to this audition and I so wanted it and I loved the piece and everything and I thought I did a good job and they didn't give me the part. And then I never tried again.

• 5:11Speaker 01

  Right.

• 5:12Elizabeth Day?

  I was like, well, that's it.

• 5:13Speaker 01

  Right.

• 5:14Elizabeth Day?

  I was so humiliated. And I completely agree with you that the greater failure is the risk not taken.

• 5:20Speaker 01

  Yes. And I have to say, my parents had so many wonderful qualities, but I think they had, both of them, this thing. I think they had a snobbery about them that was kind of like, you either have it or you don't.

• 5:36Elizabeth Day?

  Yes.

• 5:36Speaker 01

  Kind of a thing.

• 5:37Elizabeth Day?

  Don't try too hard. Don't be seen to try too hard.

• 5:39Speaker 01

  Don't be seen to try too hard. And so, like, I think I spoke earlier about how important it was to me to know how to cook. But it was like, nobody ever taught me. So it was like, in the dead of night, I had to, like, when I would go out of town, I would take cookbooks and make the most complicated things because, again, maybe this relates to the Thanksgiving thing, in front of people, like, not being able. It reminds me of a story that my mother told about a friend of hers who had twins, twin boys, and they would sleep in the same crib, you know? And one of them seemed to be much more advanced.

• 6:19Speaker 01

  And he was, you know, standing before the other one and, you know, doing things. And his mother passed the crib one night when the boys were ostensibly asleep.

• 6:32Speaker 01

  And so when the boy who was the more advanced, quote unquote, was doing things and pulling up, the other boy seemed, you know, not interested, not looking, you know, in his own world, like just nonplussed, not interested. And she walked by the crib in the middle of the night and there was the other boy trying to pull himself up when no one was watching.

• 6:58Elizabeth Day?

  Oh.

• 6:59Speaker 01

  And, yeah, and I feel like, yeah, not trying things because you're afraid you're going to fail at them also has to do with not embracing the idea that you get good at something by trying it and failing at it, that there is a learning curve and it doesn't mean you're a bad person or you're deficient in some way of, you know.

• 7:27Elizabeth Day?

  Totally.

• 7:28Speaker 01

  Try, try again.

• 7:29Elizabeth Day?

  And that story is such an amazing example of the fact that when we make ourselves vulnerable or we're seen being vulnerable, actually it's the thing that connects us. That's such a moving story because I relate to the twin who's not as quote unquote advanced and putting himself up.

• 7:46Speaker 01

  But you think, how old was that? That kid was not even a year probably. And that to have that, already that idea of shame or competition, that it's that early, that it's that baked in.

• 8:03Elizabeth Day?

  How are the twins now?

• 8:04Speaker 01

  I don't know, I don't know, I'm sure they're great, I don't know.

• 8:08Elizabeth Day?

  Wow, well, that took us to a very interesting place. I would most like to, I mean, there are so many people I'd most like on this podcast. I've always wanted Michelle Obama and she's on so many podcasts now and I'm like, please come on, I have failed.

• 8:22Speaker 01

  You'll get, keep trying.

• 8:24Elizabeth Day?

  I will.

• 8:24Speaker 01

  Keep trying, you may fail to get her for a while and then you'll keep trying and then you'll get her.

• 8:29Elizabeth Day?

  And I'll be ever on brand.

• 8:31Speaker 01

  Exactly, exactly.

• 8:32Elizabeth Day?

  And Michelle, if you can't do it, I'm happy to have Barack.

• 8:36Elizabeth Day?

  So Lily in Newcastle asks, I fell out with my then best friend almost a decade ago now. We patched it up, but things were never the same again. What made it worse was that she sort of switched allegiances and became best pals with another of our friends, someone the two of us weren't actually very close with originally. Suddenly I was an outsider. I'm lucky enough to have loads of other friends, but this particular instance of being suddenly pushed away has stayed with me ever since. I'm going to her wedding this summer and even her hen do, but we're no longer actually close and it makes me sad. What would you do in this instance? Thanks so much, Lily.

• 9:13Speaker 01

  Oh, that's very hard.

• 9:15Elizabeth Day?

  That's so hard, Lily.

• 9:17Speaker 01

  That's very hard.

• 9:19Elizabeth Day?

  Have you ever had a friendship breakup, Cynthia?

• 9:21Speaker 01

  I have, I have. I, I, I had, I, uh, the person who is now my best friend, I, I ostensibly broke up with her in high school and stopped, and literally stopped speaking to her. I didn't tell her even, I just stopped acknowledging when she would speak to me, so horrible.

• 9:41Elizabeth Day?

  Why? Did she do, did something?

• 9:42Speaker 01

  She really pissed me off. She really pissed me off. She, um, in a nutshell, I guess I would say she was a great student, but she was always in tears and, you know, and we spent so much, me and our other friends, spent so much time reassuring her and booing her up. And then of course she would get a 99 on the thing that she was so sure she had failed. And then once she was, uh, you know, upright again, she would go off and like, party, I mean, we were not partying, we were like 14, 15, whatever, but like, party with other people who were ostensibly acquaintances of hers. And it was like, and it happened again and again and again.

• 10:26Speaker 01

  And it was like, really? We're only, we're your close friends. We're only here for you when you're in crisis. And then as soon as the crisis has passed, you're running yourself ragged again in ways that are just.

• 10:40Elizabeth Day?

  For other people.

• 10:41Speaker 01

  For other people.

• 10:42Elizabeth Day?

  But did you say she's your best friend now?

• 10:44Speaker 01

  She is.

• 10:44Elizabeth Day?

  Oh, so you made, well, this is so helpful because you're like Lily's ex-best friend in a way, but you made up.

• 10:51Speaker 01

  So, I mean, partly I want to say I don't really have enough information about what happened. And I guess I, one thing I would say is. Wouldn't probably try to broach it at her wedding.

• 11:03Elizabeth Day?

  No. How did you make it up, if it's not too personal a question? How did you make it up with your?

• 11:09Speaker 01

  It's so funny. I don't really remember, but it took us years. It took us years. And it was like, we crept toward each other slowly and I, I had a lot of apologizing to do and a lot of, I mean, it felt bad for a long time, you know, it was very painful and, and sometimes still will say, we'll reference something that happened to us in college and we'll be like, I didn't know that. It's like, oh, right. We were not speaking at that time.

• 11:40Elizabeth Day?

  Amazing. I literally wrote a book about friendship because I find it so fascinating. And friendship love is as powerful, if not more so than romantic love.

• 11:51Speaker 01

  Well, that's kind of what Sex and City is about, right?

• 11:53Elizabeth Day?

  Exactly. Yeah. I mean, and thank goodness that show existed when it did and showed that so visibly on screen because there aren't that many other cultural representations of it. And I think what that means is that we don't have the language. We spent so much time on the language of romantic love. And so when something like this happens and when there's a friendship breakup, sometimes people do drop out and ghost. I was ghosted by one of my closest friends and we've never spoken since. And actually, Lily, to come back to you, one of the things that, I mean, I tend not to live with regret, but one of the things I might have done differently if I could show up as my present self when that happened, is that I think I would have broached the subject with her, not at her wedding.

• 12:37Elizabeth Day?

  But I, I think you've asked us what we would do. I think I would reach out to your friend and ask to go for coffee. And I know that sounds, or tea, green tea. I, I know that sounds so scary. I can feel frightened just suggesting it, but I promise you, nothing bad is going to happen, that she can't hurt you. I don't think any more than you've already been hurt. And I wonder if there's an element of miscommunication here. And I think you will feel so much better having had a conversation for your peace of mind before you go to the hen do or the wedding. And actually, off the back of that conversation, you could make an informed decision about whether you actually feel it's appropriate for you and

• 13:20Elizabeth Day?

  your sense of self, if you do actually want to go to these events, because it's okay not to. And I think that I would broach the conversation with love and say, Your friendship is really important to me.

• 13:30Speaker 01

  So you're saying do it before?

• 13:32Elizabeth Day?

  I'm saying do it before, yes.

• 13:34Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 13:35Elizabeth Day?

  And I think you can do it with love. So you can say, your friendship is so important to me. And I've sensed that there's been a shift in it. And I just want to check in with you as to how you're feeling about it. Because I don't want to make things awkward for you when you've got these major life events coming up. And that's enough.

• 13:53Speaker 01

  I think that's nice. I mean, I also think, right. Because I think what you're talking to about is a two step, right?

• 14:01Elizabeth Day?

  Yes.

• 14:02Speaker 01

  And one is, because I was also going to suggest that, that not to perhaps ambush this person at a coffee, even if it's after the wedding, but to actually write a not short.

• 14:16Elizabeth Day?

  Great idea.

• 14:16Speaker 01

  Letter or email, just, you know, again, with love, saying, I miss you and I, you know, and I also don't maybe understand what happened. And I would just love to, you know, understand. Because, I mean, that's the fact of the matter is, in my breakup with my good friend, who is now, again, my good friend, you know, I was at fault. I did something really terrible and young and stupid, right? Wouldn't even explain to her what was the matter. I just literally pretended she didn't exist. But once we were able, it's taken years, you know, but once, once we were repaired,

• 15:01Speaker 01

  you know, I, I handled the situation really badly. But I was reacting to something that was really painful and true.

• 15:11Elizabeth Day?

  Yeah.

• 15:11Speaker 01

  And she knows it was.

• 15:13Elizabeth Day?

  Yes.

• 15:14Speaker 01

  So I, I made it worse by my, by not talking about it, actually.

• 15:21Elizabeth Day?

  Yeah.

• 15:21Speaker 01

  By not talking about it, by just.

• 15:24Elizabeth Day?

  Which is so relatable again, because it's one of those things that if it's scary.

• 15:28Speaker 01

  In some ways, it's much easier to do. And you know why it's easier to do also? It makes you feel powerful.

• 15:36Speaker 01

  You hurt me, you don't exist anymore. I can see you're pained and puzzled and confused and abandoned. And I feel in some way glad because you hurt me and now I've hurt you back.

• 15:55Elizabeth Day?

  That's so honest, so true.

• 15:58Speaker 01

  It's true, it's true.

• 15:59Elizabeth Day?

  The other thing I'd say, Lily, if you, if you just get to the point where you're like, I can't confront this, I don't want to. I would not go to the hen do. I think hen, hen do's a bachelorette.

• 16:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, I got it, I got it, I got it.

• 16:10Elizabeth Day?

  I hate hen do's. I think they're awful. They're, they're just so uncomfortable in so many different ways. I would not go to the hen do and I would go to the wedding because the wedding is more easily controlled and you can leave as soon as the dinner's done. That would be the alternative. If you want to exist in a state of functional denial, you could do that too. But I think either writing or reaching out verbally is the way to go. Yeah.

• 16:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 16:38Elizabeth Day?

  Final one. SK on Instagram asks, what if your partner isn't ready to have kids but wants to someday? But you're almost 40. What are you meant to do? Oh, SK, you poor thing.

• 16:51Elizabeth Day?

  This is a big one.

• 16:52Speaker 01

  This is a big one.

• 16:55Elizabeth Day?

  I, so I'll kick off first because I don't have children and I wanted to, but it's one of my failures. And I now have three stepkids and I have so many godchildren and nieces. And there are so many different ways to parent in this world and I'm very grateful to experience some of them. But I was broken up with just before my 39th birthday by someone who wasn't ready to have kids. And it was so devastating at the time, but it was very illuminating because being single and about to turn 39, I was then confronted with, well, we're lucky enough to live in an age where I could pursue this as a single woman.

• 17:36Elizabeth Day?

  And I, because I had the means at my disposal, which again is a huge privilege awarded to me, I could go and get a sperm donor and I could do it as a single person. And when I was really honest with myself, I realised I didn't want to.

• 17:52Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 17:52Elizabeth Day?

  That actually it was more important for me to have a loving relationship with an involved and enlightened human being and to be in that romantic partnership. And then hopefully within that to have children.

• 18:03Speaker 01

  That children would come out of that in some way.

• 18:05Elizabeth Day?

  Exactly. And so I think there's a very important question that you can ask yourself here, S K, which is, which one do you want more? And it's okay to say, I want the loving relationship more. Because I am here to tell you that even though I spent 12 years trying and failing to have biological children, and I never thought I would be at peace with letting go of that yearning, I am so at peace with it and so creatively fulfilled. And I have an amazing partner. And so there are different ways to live a life, and I think I would ask yourself that question.

• 18:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I have a lot to say. I think if you want to have children, and it is kind of right, I think that that ask yourself that question first, what is more important to you? This partner or having children soon?

• 18:57Elizabeth Day?

  Yes.

• 18:59Speaker 01

  And if the question that comes back to you is having children, then I think you need to get on it, I do. And I think you need to make clear to that person, you know, I need to do this and I'm going to do this and I really want to do it with you, but if you don't want to do it with me, I'm going to do it. I have friends who didn't go to college and they feel really bad about it.

• 19:30Speaker 01

  And I went to college and it was fine.

• 19:34Speaker 01

  And I try to tell them that, like, if you've been to college, yeah, okay, I'm glad I went, you know?

• 19:45Speaker 01

  And if you have a yearning for biological children, it is a very primal yearning. And it is very, if you do not have biological children, it is very hard to even conceive of a, no pun intended, conceive of a, of a reality in which you do not have them. But I will tell you, I have two biological children and one non-biological children, child, and there is no difference. I, I really cannot emphasize that to you strongly enough. I mean, when children come from your biology, it's fun to say, oh, he looks like my mom. Oh, he looks like my dad. Oh, he looks like my brother. You know, that stuff is fun.

• 20:30Speaker 01

  But if you want to have children, there are so many ways to have children. You can give birth to them from your own egg. You can give birth to them, as my wife did, from someone else's egg. You can adopt them. Or you can marry someone who already has them. Or, you know, I mean, I was gonna say, I, I, I feel like I have relatives who, for them, their nieces or nephews are so paramount. That is not the same. That is not the same as having a child in your house. But I would say, get on it. But just know, this is not, you know, this is not the Olympics that if you,

• 21:14Speaker 01

  if you don't get a 9.9 or whatever, on having your own biological children, there are, you know, they don't give out gold medals for this.

• 21:28Elizabeth Day?

  Brilliant. Nothing more to add. Thank you so much for sharing that.

• 21:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 21:33Elizabeth Day?

  And thank you, S K, for writing in. And we wish you the best of luck. And in whatever way you parent, you're going to be amazing at it. Cynthia, this is, I don't want this to end.

• 21:44Speaker 01

  I don't either.

• 21:45Elizabeth Day?

  I really don't. You have a lot to go to. You're probably filming two roles, like, around the corner.

• 21:49Speaker 01

  I have a fitting.

• 21:51Elizabeth Day?

  What for?

• 21:52Speaker 01

  For all of the press. For the next few weeks, for both And Just Like That and The Gilded Age. I think I'm gonna be there for a lot of hours.

• 22:01Elizabeth Day?

  Do you wear different press promo clothes for the different shows?

• 22:06Speaker 01

  I do. I mean... They're not specific to the character. But no.

• 22:12Elizabeth Day?

  Different vibe. It is quite intimidating to know how to dress to interview someone on Sex and the City and I'm Just Like That. So I just went classic.

• 22:21Speaker 01

  I love it.

• 22:22Elizabeth Day?

  Thank you.

• 22:22Speaker 01

  I love it.

• 22:24Elizabeth Day?

  Thank you so much.

• 22:25Speaker 01

  Thank you. It was such a pleasure.

• 22:26Elizabeth Day?

  Oh, I've loved it. It's such a pleasure. I've loved every minute.

• 22:28Speaker 01

  Me too.

• 22:34Elizabeth Day?

  One of the things I hear a lot from listeners is how tiring it can be when your mind just doesn't settle. And I can only imagine this feels even heavier with intrusive thoughts. It's that quiet sense of being worn down by something you never asked for and never wanted, but just can't seem to switch off. If you struggle with this, I want to tell you about NoCD, because it's a resource that genuinely helps people. NoCD provides specialized treatment for OCD. And what I appreciate about their approach is how human it feels. You're matched with a licensed therapist trained in ERP therapy. That's Exposure and Response Prevention. And over time, you learn skills that help your OCD symptoms become manageable

• 23:17Elizabeth Day?

  so you can live more of the life you want to live. If you're struggling with OCD or unrelenting intrusive thoughts, NoCD can help. Book a free 15-minute call to get started at learn.nocd.com/fail.

• 23:33Elizabeth Day?

  Cynthia Nixon, how do I love the Let Me Count the Ways? I mean, oh, she was heaven. From the moment she arrived on her own, by the way, absolutely zero entourage, wearing this gorgeous green dress that really brought out the colour in her eyes, and a Wonder Woman backpack on both shoulders. It was so cute. And then removed from said backpack, a flask of water and a flask of tea. Now, if you are a regular listener, which as a subscriber you are, you will know that I am a green tea obsessive. And she and I had a good, I would say 10-minute chat about our

• 24:18Elizabeth Day?

  Favorite green tea varieties and about the fact that I also travel with my own tea. I am that person. I've become that person. And she makes her own blend of green jasmine tea with homegrown lemongrass. And then some sort of peach blossom affair that she adds in for flavour. So she poured her own tea out and her own water out, which FYI was lemon mint. And then sat down and made me feel so comfortable in her presence. And I love it when an interview feels like a genuine conversation. And that's how I felt with her. I want to hang out with her all of the time. I want to go to her home. I want to eat those 25 pound bags of quinoa.

• 25:03Elizabeth Day?

  She doesn't have to pretend to be perfect with me. I just want to hang out in her house and put the world to rights. I feel I could learn so much from her. And I think some of my favourite parts of that interview were where she gave me the grace to ask nerdy questions about things that I've loved watching her in, particularly Amadeus. If you haven't watched Amadeus, I re-watched it recently. And unlike some of those movies that you see kind of 20 years ago and you're obsessed with. And then you re-watch them and they actually feel really cringe and sort of hammy put together.

• 25:41Elizabeth Day?

  Amadeus really does stand the test of time. It's such an extraordinary movie and so brilliantly performed by everyone. And Cynthia plays the part, as she said, of Mozart's maid. And in anyone else's hands, that part would be probably eminently forgettable. She doesn't appear that much, but she does so much when she comes on screen. And to hear the process of how she auditioned for it, how she flew to Europe for the first time when she was still at school. She was a teenager. And I just find it phenomenal that she had that kind of presence of mind to ask to be flown back so that she could still go on with her schooling. And then that insight into Milos Forman directing.

• 26:24Elizabeth Day?

  And telling F Mary Abraham to stop acting. And that's something that I've learnt from having interviewed stars, like screen stars, that the difference between film acting and stage acting is, I believe, that when you act on camera, you need to do relatively little because the camera picks up the nuance of your facial expressions. And I found that so riveting. And then also found it very moving when she was talking about what her mother said about inhabiting the truth of the character's circumstance. And how actually, it's not that you try to cry if you're playing someone who's sad. You actually try not to cry, and that being the most human thing.

• 27:08Elizabeth Day?

  I found it really enlightening. And I said to her as she left, I was like, I just could carry on with this all day. And she very sweetly said, me too, but I've got to go to a fitting. And she's going for a fitting for two sets of promo for the two roles that she was doing. And Just Like That and The Gilded Age. And she just continues, at the age of 59, but looking 25, to be such an epic talent.