Ep. 733: Dispatches from Africa - Anti-Poaching With A Side Of Black Mamba

Steven Rinella https://www.instagram.com/stevenrinella/?hl=en talks with Joash Vomo, Executive Director of the Robin Hurt Wildlife Foundation https://www.robinhurtwildlifefoundation.org/ and Anti-Poaching & Community Coordinator. Topics Discussed: Buy a raffle ticket for the chance to win TRCP’s annual turkey hunt with Steve and Jani https://www.trcp.org/trcp-meateater-summer-sweepstakes/; subsistence poaching vs. selling poached game meat on the black market; snares big enough to catch a cape buffalo; homemade muzzle loaders; the punishment for poaching a giraffe, Tanzania’s national animal; how a poacher becomes an anti-poacher; community-based conservation; patrolling waterways; how black mambas can stand on their tales, chase cars, and kill you in a matter of minutes; and more. Connect with Steve https://www.themeateater.com/authors/steven-rinella and The MeatEater Podcast Network https://www.youtube.com/@MeatEaterPodcastNetwork Steve on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/stevenrinella and Twitter https://twitter.com/stevenrinella?lang=en MeatEater on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/meateater, Facebook https://www.facebook.com/StevenRinellaMeatEater/, Twitter https://twitter.com/MeatEaterTV?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor, and Youtube https://www.youtube.com/@MeatEaterPodcastNetwork See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 3:03Speaker 02

  Hey, everybody. Welcome to, uh, FOP 4 of our dispatches from Africa. I'm joined here to talk about poaching in Africa and anti-poaching efforts in Africa with Joe Ash Bomo. Known as JJ around these parts, um, who works with Robin Hertz Safaris on community development projects and anti-poaching efforts. And we're going to talk a little bit about, uh, how those two things actually have something to do with, with, uh, each other. Before we get into that subject, I want to remind everyone, right now, we have, the, the raffle is open, the window to buy raffle tickets is open for our annual TRCP fundraiser turkey hunt.

• 3:48Speaker 02

  For many years now, uh, we run a raffle, we're in, and we pick a winner, and that winner brings along a friend to go turkey hunting with me and Yanis Putellas. When you win, you and your friend, uh, we cover your airfare. We hook you up with any gear you might need for the trip. We cover the price of your turkey tag. We cover um food, lodging, everything. We pay, you don't, you don't pay anything. We pay everything for you guys to come turkey hunt. You'll spend three nights with us. We'll have two full days of turkey hunting. We do it every year. We bounce around different spots we want to hunt. We always have a ton of luck. The raffle is open from now to the end of July.

• 4:28Speaker 02

  All the expenses for the turkey hunt are covered by a donor, a buddy of mine. Covers all the expenses. All of the raffle ticket money goes directly to TRCP. And TRCP's uh, you know, their slogan again is guaranteeing Americans quality places to hunt and fish. All the money stays on mission when you buy a raffle ticket. The recent public lands fight that we lived through, uh, TRCP was front and center in getting that squared away and, and leading us to a big victory in that battle. So get your raffle tickets now. Back to subject. You uh, Joe Ash, you're, you're Tanzania born?

• 5:08Speaker 00

  Yeah, I'm a Tanzanian.

• 5:09Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 5:09Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 5:10Speaker 02

  Uh, how did you, how did you ever get into the, the career that you're in? Like what, what led you down that path?

• 5:19Speaker 00

  I started out in community development. I joined Robin Hart Redler Foundation as an intern.

• 5:26Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 5:26Speaker 00

  Yeah, like uh, 12 years ago.

• 5:30Speaker 00

  So we were doing community projects in the communities that surround the areas that Robin Hunt Safaris has for hunting.

• 5:40Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 5:41Speaker 00

  So that's how I, I got in. And also I did, uh, I was doing also anti-poaching patrols, uh, mostly in this area. I've, I've done quite a bit of patrols.

• 5:51Speaker 02

  So you've been doing patrols here for 12 years?

• 5:52Speaker 00

  Yeah, I've been doing it, yeah, for a while, yes.

• 5:54Speaker 02

  In, in, in the US, when we hear poaching in Africa, right? Nine out of 10 people, their mind goes to...

• 6:06Speaker 02

  Elephant ivory.

• 6:08Speaker 00

  Uh huh.

• 6:08Speaker 02

  And rhino horns.

• 6:10Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 6:10Speaker 02

  Um. How is that accurate? I mean, in what ways is it a more complicated picture than that? Like, like, but that is what people think when they hear those words.

• 6:21Speaker 00

  Yeah, of course, the, um, large, largely the poaching in Tanzania is, is just, uh, for sustenance. But then you have the big poachers who go for the elephants and the rhinos. Of course, there's not any more rhinos left.

• 6:37Speaker 02

  Uh, they're. In this area, they've been like poached out.

• 6:40Speaker 00

  Yeah, but that was, uh, in the seventies and eighties.

• 6:43Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 6:44Speaker 00

  Uh, the, the, the, there has been elephant poaching for, but we haven't had any incident for, for the last, uh, ten years. Uh, we haven't had any incident with, with elephant poaching. And also the government really, uh, came down hard on, on elephant, uh, poaching and, and rhino poaching.

• 7:02Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 7:03Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 7:04Speaker 02

  So, so what is poaching today that you deal with?

• 7:06Speaker 00

  Well, poaching today, what we deal with, what we deal with is mostly, uh, for, I can say it's, there's a market for game meat.

• 7:15Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 7:15Speaker 00

  Uh, which is usually buffalo or, uh, any animal that they can get on a snare. So, uh, and there's a belief like in giraffe meat that it has some healing capabilities. So then there's a market also for that. So, but it's usually for the meat. That's what the, most of the poachers go for. It's a, it's a, it's a, it's like a black market, you know?

• 7:38Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 7:38Speaker 00

  So they hunt and, uh, they poach and they sell the meat to various places in, like, in a black market, yeah.

• 7:46Speaker 02

  Is it, is it common that you'd be able to go into a city or a town in Tanzania? And if you looked around, you would find, uh, game animals for sale in the open? Or is it, is it more discreet?

• 8:00Speaker 00

  No, it is very, very discreet. Yeah, they don't do it in the open. Uh, there a few years ago, the government opened up uh game meat uh butcheries. So that to give the the local people a chance for so to get an animal legally. There are places where the locals can can go and hunt. They get a permit. They go with a government game scout and they can hunt an animal. And yeah, if you have the if you have the license, then you can you can sell it. But it's not that much. It's very rare. So most of the game meat is is sold very discreetly. And to a select uh number of people who I think the poachers have some sort of relationship with.

• 8:40Speaker 02

  We've uh in the time I've been hanging around here, I've heard a number of people mention snaring.

• 8:46Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:46Speaker 02

  Um, in the U S, in in most states, you can set you you can set snares for fur-bearing animals. It's very regulated.

• 8:55Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 8:56Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 8:56Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:57Speaker 02

  You guys are talking about a type of snaring that is more meant to just, well, one, to catch like large game, big game animals, to catch meat animals.

• 9:05Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 9:05Speaker 02

  How how are the snares employed? What are they made of? Like, what does it look like when you encounter a snare setup?

• 9:13Speaker 00

  Uh, it's uh they use wire. So it it's they put it close to uh water holes and uh on the on riverbeds. So it's it's a wire that's it's round. And then the animal goes in, it starts to tighten up.

• 9:32Speaker 02

  Show me how big they make the loop.

• 9:33Speaker 00

  Uh, the loop can be quite big, you know. It can be like. It's it's big. It's it's like this big. So even a buffalo head can go in.

• 9:43Speaker 02

  So you can snare.

• 9:44Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 9:45Speaker 02

  They'll snare something that big?

• 9:46Speaker 00

  Yeah, they can. Yeah, they can do that.

• 9:49Speaker 02

  And then uh.

• 9:51Speaker 02

  You also, I hear guys talk about a muzzleloader.

• 9:54Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 9:54Speaker 02

  Now, we can buy a muzzleloader.

• 9:56Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 9:57Speaker 02

  Right, at the store.

• 9:58Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 9:58Speaker 02

  These are not store bought muzzleloaders.

• 10:00Speaker 00

  No, no, they're not. Uh, usually you find that a lot of the people with muzzleloaders, they, they, they got the skill down from their grandparents, so they can make one. Um, and they use like a piece of metal this big, and put it in there like a bullet, and they have gunpowder, and they shoot it out. Others have some very old, very old muzzleloaders, um, uh, which I believe that, uh, they got from, you know, uh, a lot of people from this area. Uh, during the First World War, they were used as, uh, as fighting.

• 10:37Speaker 02

  During the First World War?

• 10:39Speaker 00

  During the First World War, in, in Africa on this side. So they were part of the German, uh, German, um, local army. And later on, they became the king's African rifles. So some of them came back home with the, with the muzzleloader.

• 10:52Speaker 02

  Oh, I got it.

• 10:53Speaker 00

  And so it got hunted down.

• 10:54Speaker 02

  And those are still being used?

• 10:55Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, you find them from time to time.

• 10:58Speaker 02

  So when you're, you're out on patrol, and you guys do, will do thirty day patrols.

• 11:02Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 11:03Speaker 02

  And, and, and initially you're patrolling, I, I keep telling this like to our audience, I keep trying to explain like this, this reserve that we're on.

• 11:11Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 11:12Speaker 02

  Um, it borders a large national park.

• 11:14Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 11:15Speaker 02

  On one of its borders. It's a, it's a game reserve that's the size of, we have a very large famous park called Yellowstone National Park.

• 11:23Speaker 00

  Yeah, I've heard of it.

• 11:23Speaker 02

  In the US. It's that size.

• 11:25Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 11:26Speaker 02

  You do thirty day patrols.

• 11:28Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 11:29Speaker 02

  Let's say you, you catch somebody. Okay, you, you encounter a poacher, you encounter a guy in camp, he's got illegal, he's got snare equipment, he's got meat. Um, is it, are, are you at liberty to make an arrest? Like, like, how do you approach the situation? What do you do when you find someone?

• 11:46Speaker 00

  Okay, uh, during our patrols, we have two to four government game scouts. They're the ones legally who are allowed to apprehend, uh, a person who is caught poaching or doing any, anything illegal. So as soon as we get the guy or culprits, uh, we have twenty-four hours to present him. Uh, to, to, to the relevant authorities.

• 12:09Steven Rinella?

  You can detain him for 24 hours?

• 12:10Speaker 00

  Yeah. So what we do during the 24 hours, we'll do our best to make our way out of the area. And going, uh, he goes to the police station and he stays there until then the evidence comes in and then it becomes a court case from there. Yeah.

• 12:24Steven Rinella?

  And what kind of fine, like, let, let's take, let's take something in the extreme. Uh, there's giraffes here.

• 12:31Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 12:31Steven Rinella?

  We see them most days.

• 12:32Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 12:33Steven Rinella?

  It's the national animal.

• 12:34Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 12:35Steven Rinella?

  Okay. So it'd be like, our equivalent would be the bald eagle, our national bird.

• 12:39Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 12:39Steven Rinella?

  If you kill a bald eagle, you're in a ton of trouble.

• 12:41Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 12:41Steven Rinella?

  Um.

• 12:44Steven Rinella?

  You catch a guy with, with something like that.

• 12:46Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 12:46Steven Rinella?

  What sort of, like, what is the punishment? If you've got a good case and you can prove it?

• 12:51Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 12:52Steven Rinella?

  What would be the punishment for something like that?

• 12:53Speaker 00

  Uh, a punishment for that is, uh, close to 20 years in jail.

• 12:57Steven Rinella?

  Okay.

• 12:57Speaker 00

  Yeah. Yes.

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• 15:42Speaker 02

  I keep hearing, you know, guys at Robin Hertz Safari talk about that a lot of staff, people they hire would be people that reformed poachers. Maybe people, kids that started out poaching at a very young age, you know, 14, 15 years old.

• 16:00Speaker 02

  That kind of get brought on and cultivated and given like career positions within the organization. Yes. What are they getting caught doing that you would not, that they wouldn't have to go off to jail for a number of years, but that they have an opportunity to come, you know, be out in the bush and work with wildlife, but work in a productive way?

• 16:21Speaker 00

  Yeah, of course, um, well, you find them, uh, some were caught setting up snares. Uh, others you find, uh, maybe they were hauling the game meat, you know, because if, if, for example, they poach a buffalo. They'll stay out in the field, you know, to dry it out and everything, then put it in sacks. And then so they need guys to move the, the, the sacks out. So you find kids like that.

• 16:46Speaker 02

  So you might catch a kid who's just out carrying meat.

• 16:47Speaker 00

  So, um, and, and some of them don't even know if they're doing something that's illegal.

• 16:53Speaker 02

  I see.

• 16:53Speaker 00

  So after we, uh, educate them and rehabilitate them. Then we give them an opportunity. So they join our anti-poaching units. That's where most of the guys that, uh. You have hunting with you started from. So they started, they start in that poaching unit and the. As they progress, they go, uh, they become trackers. Because also, they are, they have. They are very good with the area because they've been there since they were young. And also they are very good trackers in following up, uh, looking at the animal tracks. So it's a benefit. So you just show them that, you know, if, if you do it this way, it's legal and it's going to benefit you. And your family instead of doing this, which you might end up in jail. Yeah, so it's, it's.

• 17:37Speaker 00

  It's, it's, it's the better option for them.

• 17:39Speaker 02

  Uh, next, talk about what community development means and, and how does commu-. Like, what is the relationship between community development and anti-poaching?

• 17:49Speaker 00

  Um, we, the word that we use is community-based conservation.

• 17:56Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 17:57Speaker 00

  So what we do is we help the communities in projects for them to see the. Actual benefits that come from protecting the wildlife. You know, the poachers come from the communities around. So if, if they can see a direct benefit that comes from, uh, preserving and conserving the wildlife that they have. Or even helping us in, in, in finding out about the poachers. Uh, like, uh, two months ago, we got information about. Uh, people with two muzzleloaders and, and they were caught before they, they could do anything. And it was because of the community informing our anti-poaching units about such such people.

• 18:38Speaker 00

  So its projects, its schools, we've built schools in this area, we've built health dispensaries. We are currently working on renovating one in the village that we went to in Lumbe. And we've set up water wells. We've supported children who have finished primary school going into secondary school. So these benefits which the community can see and and touch, they are tangible benefits that come from them partnering with us in protecting the wildlife and the area. So that whatever that's got from hunters who come, that there's there's a percentage that goes back to the community.

• 19:23Speaker 00

  So it's a direct benefit to them. So in that way, they they help us in being also custodians and and fellow protectors of the wildlife. Yeah.

• 19:32Speaker 02

  Do you do you find in the surrounding communities that that your work in that area has been effective? Like, do people do people wind up having a positive attitude toward the the wild landscapes that are here?

• 19:43Speaker 00

  Oh, yes, yes, people are very positive. But as in everything, there's always a few characters who always find a way.

• 19:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:52Speaker 00

  Because you find it's something that they've been doing for generations and generations. To them, it's just a way of life, poaching, illegal fishing, and, you know, illegal timber harvesting. So there's still a few, you know, characters who haven't, it hasn't really gotten into their heads. But for the most part, the communities are very receptive and very supportive of what we do over here.

• 20:18Speaker 02

  I want to back up a minute. There's a thing I I failed to ask you about that you just brought up.

• 20:22Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 20:23Speaker 02

  There's a big fishing component here.

• 20:24Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 20:24Speaker 02

  Because you're on a very large lake.

• 20:26Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 20:27Speaker 02

  There's a river system.

• 20:28Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 20:28Speaker 02

  And there is legal fishing.

• 20:30Speaker 00

  Yes, there is.

• 20:31Speaker 02

  Okay, but you but you still patrol and you you guys patrol and regulate the fishing and where where I live.

• 20:36Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 20:37Speaker 02

  It would be that we have game wardens.

• 20:39Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 20:40Speaker 02

  Hired by the different states.

• 20:41Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 20:41Speaker 02

  And the game wardens patrol the waterways.

• 20:43Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 20:43Speaker 02

  Um, and it's checking licenses.

• 20:47Speaker 00

  Mm hmm.

• 20:48Speaker 02

  Checking what equipment you use.

• 20:49Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 20:50Speaker 02

  Checking that you have fish you're allowed to have.

• 20:52Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 20:52Speaker 02

  You don't have too many.

• 20:53Speaker 00

  Mm hmm.

• 20:53Speaker 02

  Right?

• 20:54Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 20:54Speaker 02

  They're just doing that work all the time and they interact with fishermen.

• 20:57Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 20:58Speaker 02

  And that's sounds like very similar.

• 20:59Speaker 00

  It's basically the same thing. Uh, we also, what we do is we we facilitate, uh, the the the government game officers so that we go with them. And also, uh, you find that we, uh, we have a, we have more of a feel of the area.

• 21:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:18Speaker 00

  Uh, you know, the game scouts come and go, they get changed. So we have our teams with them even on the water and and they check. You have to have a valid license and we have to check the type of fish you caught. There's also, uh, the size of the net that you have so that you don't, uh, catch the small fish. So we, it's almost the same thing as you described. We we we have to do that on the lake and also on the river. Uh, and also even by doing that, we it's also because, uh, poaching, if it can't come in on, if they can't come in on land, then they'll they'll come in through the water.

• 21:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:52Speaker 00

  So by having patrols, then we have a way of controlling the guys who would come and poach and then put it on a boat and and go and go out.

• 22:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:00Speaker 00

  So so it helps. Yes.

• 22:02Speaker 02

  Uh, is there anything I missed that you feel like you should tell me about?

• 22:05Speaker 00

  Uh, well, not really, Morgan.

• 22:08Speaker 02

  Friend?

• 22:09Speaker 00

  Black mambas. Oh.

• 22:11Speaker 02

  Oh. Okay.

• 22:15Speaker 02

  Let's talk like Morgan Potter's not here.

• 22:17Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 22:19Speaker 02

  Morgan Potter tells us all about.

• 22:21Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 22:21Speaker 02

  We got a little worked up about black mambas.

• 22:23Speaker 00

  Uh huh.

• 22:23Speaker 02

  Just from hearing about him, reading about him.

• 22:25Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 22:26Speaker 02

  He's like, you'll never see one.

• 22:27Speaker 00

  Mm hmm.

• 22:28Speaker 02

  Okay. Right away, there's a damn black mamba right in the middle of the road. Um.

• 22:34Speaker 02

  How many black, like, how many black mambas per day are you running into?

• 22:39Speaker 00

  On a normal day, you won't run into one.

• 22:41Speaker 02

  Okay, how many per week?

• 22:43Speaker 00

  Per week, okay, for like, for the week I've had, I've run into two.

• 22:47Speaker 02

  Ah!

• 22:47Speaker 00

  And, uh,

• 22:51Speaker 00

  and one of them really chased us, you know.

• 22:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's a, it's a, so, for, I didn't know, but I, I had heard of black mambas, I knew they were bad. Or like, I knew there was like a snake to be reckoned with.

• 23:03Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 23:04Speaker 02

  Um, they ride their neck up like Loch Ness monster.

• 23:09Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, they stand with the-

• 23:10Speaker 02

  They cruise around with their head like up here.

• 23:13Speaker 00

  Yeah, they can stand on their tail.

• 23:16Speaker 00

  Like, literally stand.

• 23:18Speaker 02

  They're like an attack snake.

• 23:19Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, it is, uh, it's quite aggressive, uh, very territorial.

• 23:22Speaker 02

  Chases people around?

• 23:23Speaker 00

  Chases people, can even chase a car, it can even, yeah, it can go after you.

• 23:28Speaker 02

  You'll never see one.

• 23:29Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 23:29Speaker 02

  Here's the funniest part about it, the funniest part about it, we see a black mamba.

• 23:33Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 23:33Speaker 02

  He like, the black mamba like honestly considers attacking our car.

• 23:37Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 23:37Speaker 02

  Like, he like runs through his mind, he false charges the car.

• 23:40Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 23:41Speaker 02

  And then goes off, and then we like drive off and we don't go a mile, and someone looks out the side of the road, we're like, there's another one! And Morgan's like, no, that's a, that's a, uh, cobra.

• 23:51Speaker 00

  Cobra, yeah. Yeah, I think if you, if you, if you had to choose, uh, you're better off meeting a cobra than, than, than a black mamba, it's, it's, it's really, it's, we call it over here sudden death, you know?

• 24:05Speaker 02

  Sudden death.

• 24:05Speaker 00

  Yeah, sudden death, but you have traditional healers who say they can-

• 24:09Speaker 02

  Fix you up?

• 24:10Speaker 00

  Fix you up, but, uh, you are never sure about it.

• 24:13Speaker 02

  The other snake we saw that was, that seemed very benign, I mean, I know they're not, but he seemed very like, just a chill snake, was we saw a puff adder.

• 24:20Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, he's very chill, you know, he can, you can-

• 24:23Speaker 02

  He didn't want in trouble.

• 24:24Speaker 00

  Yeah, you can even step on him and he won't do anything to you, but a black mamba, you startle it, or you're just like in its surroundings and like it's coming back to its hole, like back here, it, it, it would really chase us away here, yeah.

• 24:40Speaker 02

  This one was going down the road.

• 24:42Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 24:43Speaker 02

  And we pulled up on it and is, and he turns and comes back toward the truck to attack the truck.

• 24:48Speaker 00

  It's, it's not scared of anything, yeah, that's the truth about it.

• 24:52Speaker 02

  I got a lot of respect for him.

• 24:53Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 24:53Speaker 02

  Okay. But then you've been in this business 12 years.

• 24:58Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 24:58Speaker 02

  You do mega patrols out here. You do long patrols out here. You've never been struck by one.

• 25:04Speaker 00

  Well, I wouldn't be here if I was. So, uh, yeah.

• 25:07Speaker 02

  That's proof. He's never been struck by one. He's alive.

• 25:09Speaker 00

  I've never been struck by one. We've, uh, we've had close calls. Uh, earlier this year, uh, some of our guys were chasing a poacher. And as soon as they got close to him, he, he did, he, he turned around and was going towards the vehicle on its, on his own. It's because he had seen a black mamba. So when the guys got there, it stood up. And so they also started running back. And it, it's very rare for it to happen, but as soon as they get to the, to the pickup, uh, they find that there was another one close by. So it also stood up. So it was, it was a bit of a crazy day. Luckily, no one was, was bitten.

• 25:48Speaker 02

  We have a, we have a similar animal in the northern. We have a mountain range called the Rocky Mountains. And in the northern end of the Rocky Mountains, we have a bear called a grizzly bear. You probably heard of grizzly bears.

• 25:57Speaker 00

  Oh, yes, I've heard of it. Yes.

• 26:00Speaker 02

  Uh, people that live around there.

• 26:02Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 26:02Speaker 02

  Are generally very relaxed.

• 26:05Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 26:05Speaker 02

  They're like, sure, you see them, it, it doesn't mean it's gonna kill you.

• 26:09Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 26:09Speaker 02

  You just get used to it. And then people come from far away and they go there and all they talk about is grizzly bears.

• 26:16Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 26:16Speaker 02

  And then people that live there get annoyed with them for talking about grizzly bears all the time. We're those guys. We're those guys about black mambas.

• 26:24Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah. But, uh, but even the, the, you know, the people around here who live around here, that's really one, one snake that they're really scared of.

• 26:34Speaker 02

  Oh, they're right.

• 26:35Speaker 00

  That's the truth. Yeah. So, uh, you can find a few brave people who are ready to confront it, but most would rather just go the other way. Yeah, it's, it's really scary. Yeah, that's the truth. Uh, we, uh, there's a guy, a honey guy that was bitten two weeks ago because sometimes they go and stay inside a beehive.

• 26:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:56Speaker 00

  So while he was opening it up, it, it struck him. And he

• 27:01Steven Rinella?

  How the hell is he getting to the beehive?

• 27:02Speaker 00

  Goes up, climbs up the tree because the beehive is on top of

• 27:06Steven Rinella?

  And goes into a hole.

• 27:07Speaker 00

  And goes inside there. It seems the bees, you know, don't mind him, don't mind it there. So he opened it up and it struck him and um, three hours later, he was

• 27:17Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 27:17Speaker 00

  He was dead. Yeah. And then for me, three hours, I'm like, oh, okay. It took a while because it's usually thirty to forty, forty-five minutes.

• 27:25Steven Rinella?

  I don't mean, I don't mean a lot.

• 27:27Speaker 00

  I know, but yeah, I was also surprised. That's three hours. Okay. Yeah, but yeah, so it's a very dangerous snake. There are not so many. They are very rare. And they only come out early in the morning, during the day and later in the evening, they go back. Yes. Yeah.

• 27:44Steven Rinella?

  Great. Well, thanks for the um, thanks for the conversation.

• 27:48Speaker 00

  Okay, thank you.

• 27:49Steven Rinella?

  Thank you for your efforts on behalf of wildlife.

• 27:52Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 27:52Steven Rinella?

  Thanks for uh, your efforts at making us seem more chill about the black Mamba. I'm actually pretty chill about the black. I like them. I don't have no problem.

• 28:02Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 28:04Steven Rinella?

  It's this guy named Seth. This guy named Seth running around here. He's a real baby about black Mamba.

• 28:09Speaker 00

  Yeah, I'm sure it's a, it's a, it's a real adrenaline, adrenaline rush.

• 28:13Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, they're good for that. They're good for that. It's like bungee jumping.

• 28:35Steven Rinella?

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• 30:49Speaker 02

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