#2238 - John McPhee

John McPhee, widely known as “The Sheriff of Baghdad” or “SHREK,” is a retired U. S. Army Special Operations Sergeant Major with over 20 years of distinguished service. He is the owner of SOB Tactical, a supplier of specialized training and tactical gear to civilians, military, and law enforcement. www.sobtactical.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Speaker 00

  The Joe Rogan Experience.

• 0:11Joe Rogan?

  Good to see you, brother.

• 0:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, how are you, man?

• 0:13Joe Rogan?

  Great, great. It was nice to meet you at F1. And I really loved your episode of Sean Ryan. I fucking love that dude.

• 0:19Speaker 02

  Thanks, man. Yeah, Sean is...

• 0:21Joe Rogan?

  He's the man.

• 0:21Speaker 02

  He's awesome. I love Sean.

• 0:23Joe Rogan?

  I'm so glad there's guys like him doing this, that there's more people like him that are like finding new ways to like, you know, media is so wide open now. And it's not, you don't have to get hired by a television station anymore. You could just start your own shit and Sean's show is fucking great.

• 0:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, he's great. Sean's, I love him as a person.

• 0:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I love him too. He's great. He's an awesome dude. And I loved you on that show, but goddamn, man, that show was crazy. Like, your childhood was so nuts, dude. Hearing about you living in a brothel when you were 12 years old.

• 0:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, me and my brother.

• 0:57Joe Rogan?

  Fuck, dude, your whole story was so nuts, man. I was listening to it in the sauna this morning. And I was like, oh my god. So I'm there cooking at 195 degrees, listening to you struggle. I was in there for half an hour. I usually do 20 minutes, but I kept going. I'm like, this life was so fucked up. I feel like I shouldn't bail right now. I should keep listening.

• 1:17Speaker 02

  I feel like, like, but I'm not the only one, you know what I mean? I feel like where I was in the army is full of guys just like that.

• 1:25Joe Rogan?

  100%.

• 1:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:26Joe Rogan?

  100%. Yeah, and I think in some, well, fighters as well. You know, a lot of fighters I know, like Sean Strickland, a lot of guys I know had fucked up childhoods. And I think it gives you an extra gear. I think when you can get through a childhood like that, you got an extra place that you can go to that other dudes can't go to. And in your line of work, that comes in very handy.

• 1:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, I think it works like this. I never heard it as an extra gear, but here's the way I always equated it. You know you're gonna get a beating and it's coming at five o'clock. You know, you know, after dinner, you they're gonna be hammered and this is another argument and fight. And it's a pattern, right? And you know this as a kid, right? And what happens is you gotta take that beating and then like, put your church clothes on, we're going to church. You know what I mean?

• 2:18Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:18Speaker 02

  And the truth is, is like, um, uh, I think my, my brother more than me, but, uh, I think my mom actually had him convinced that we were super bad kids and like, you know, we were, I don't know, a couple of years ago, I was like, you know, like, you ever met an actual bad, like, four, six, or eight year old?

• 2:36Joe Rogan?

  No, it's how they're raised.

• 2:37Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:38Joe Rogan?

  It's all now they're raised.

• 2:38Speaker 02

  And then it was kinda like, I think it was an eye opener for him, but like, it was always our fault.

• 2:45Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's the thing, you can convince kids of almost anything, you can convince them that's their fault. You can convince them that they're bad kids and then they feel bad for the rest of their fucking life, they feel like a piece of shit.

• 2:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:56Joe Rogan?

  There's a lot of people out there that didn't do anything wrong, they're just raised by shitheads and for their whole life, they feel like garbage.

• 3:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:02Joe Rogan?

  And they don't know why.

• 3:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, I agree.

• 3:03Joe Rogan?

  It's so hard to snap out of that, too, and it, it takes something for you to do that makes you feel valuable and worthwhile. Like, you, you have to kinda like relearn who you are as a person.

• 3:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:15Joe Rogan?

  And some people never do.

• 3:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:16Joe Rogan?

  And then they, you know, find meth or heroin or something that takes the edge away.

• 3:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:22Joe Rogan?

  And they can just exist.

• 3:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, I'll tell you, that was the army for me, like, the first time I ever felt like,

• 3:29Speaker 02

  like I fit in or I was with people like me.

• 3:33Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 3:33Speaker 02

  Was when I was, you know, in Ranger Battalion.

• 3:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I, I think fighting is the same way. A lot of those guys, the only time they ever feel normal is when they're in a gym with a bunch of other savages.

• 3:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:43Joe Rogan?

  It's like, it's guys who wanna do that for a living, you know, generally, something fucking terribly wrong happened when you were young.

• 3:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:51Joe Rogan?

  That put this anger, this monster inside of you.

• 3:54Speaker 02

  Well, I'll tell you, the, I tell people all the time, jiu jitsu is my sanity.

• 3:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Jiu Jitsu is meditation, man. Because if you are doing Jiu Jitsu, you can't be thinking about anything else.

• 4:06Speaker 02

  Right.

• 4:06Joe Rogan?

  So it cleans your mind up. You know, we were talking about bow hunting.

• 4:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:10Joe Rogan?

  I think that's the same thing. I think in a different way, it's just when you're doing that, it's so difficult. You can't think about anything else.

• 4:17Speaker 02

  Right. I love when I'm, I don't even care if I get or see an elk today. The places I go to get these elk, I could just sit there all day anyway.

• 4:26Joe Rogan?

  I know.

• 4:27Speaker 02

  You know what I mean? The fact that like, one of these majestic beasts is gonna walk 20 yards from me? Fucking bonus. You know what I mean? Like, I just, you know what I'm saying? Like, and I feel the same about Jiu Jitsu, you know, like, uh, I always like in Jiu Jitsu, when someone does like what you call high level Jiu Jitsu to me as it's happening, like, couldn't, I don't care if you're smashing my fucking face, that was amazing. Are you kidding me? Like, let's take a moment here.

• 4:55Joe Rogan?

  It's amazing that someone can do that.

• 4:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:57Joe Rogan?

  You know, I remember when I was first starting Jiu Jitsu, I was like 30 years old and I thought I was a badass. I'd kick boxed, I'd won a bunch of Taekwondo tournaments. I thought I knew how to fight. And I remember one day when I was a white belt, this purple belt just raped me. I mean, he was my size. This was what drove me crazy. He wasn't bigger than me. And he just destroyed me. Just destroyed, just did whatever he wanted. Triangled me, arm barred me, choked me. And I remember walking out of there going, I can't, first of all, what a like, shift of like who you are in the world, knowing that someone can just do that to you. Not a bigger guy, like someone your size can just, you're helpless. And then I remember thinking, I gotta get good at this.

• 5:42Joe Rogan?

  Like, that, having that as a skill, that's like one of the greatest things you could ever have, like, because that's what martial arts was supposed to be when we were kids. Like that the smaller person could beat the larger person just with technique.

• 5:55Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 5:56Joe Rogan?

  Until Horace Gracie came along, you never really saw that. The bigger guys always won. And then Horace Gracie, all of a sudden, he's killing people from his back. We're like, what is going on?

• 6:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:06Joe Rogan?

  This is crazy.

• 6:06Speaker 02

  He's losing. He's not losing.

• 6:08Joe Rogan?

  All of a sudden, he's like, ah. He's strangling some guy with his legs. We're like, what the fuck is this?

• 6:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, I agree. I agree. I tell you, uh, I met Hoist, like we, you know, in the early days, we'd bring Hoist and Horian was actually the first Gracie I met before Hoist, right? But we'd bring Hoist in and like, watching these guys like, You know, we get like sixty guys up on the mat and this is hard to do and this is a lot of guys because it's Hoist, you know, and he would run through every dude.

• 6:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 6:39Speaker 02

  Every dude and it was like, not like, not like it was a close match, it was like, whatever dude from the defo stepped in front of him was the twelve year old child against the fucking, an adult.

• 6:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 6:54Speaker 02

  You know what I mean? Like he just fucking handled everybody. And I remember one of those times, he just fucking, I did something and he cinched down on me like a spider and I couldn't fucking move. And he goes, yes, I did not think of this. This is good move. And I was like, I don't even know what the fuck I'm doing. Like, you know what I mean? I, I wasn't even a white belt yet. I was just, he was just fucking me up, you know? But I knew like right then and there, I was fucking helpless.

• 7:18Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's a weird feeling.

• 7:19Speaker 02

  And like, yo, unacceptable. You know what I mean? Yeah, right? Unacceptable.

• 7:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Like you gotta learn this.

• 7:27Speaker 02

  You gotta know some of it, you know what I mean? And, and even back then, like, we would all tell Hoist, you know, cause we were more Muay Thai, we would train a lot of Muay Thai, boxing, right? Wrestling, a lot of wrestling. Uh, you know, before the jits and like, we would tell Hoist back then, as soon as you learn to punch, you are super dangerous, which is, I think where it is now.

• 7:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Well, I think wrestling is kind of, there's like so many elite wrestlers now that have learned submissions and that extra skill of being able to throw bodies around is another level.

• 8:02Speaker 02

  I agree.

• 8:03Joe Rogan?

  Cause wrestlers can learn jiu jitsu pretty easy. An elite wrestler, you take a guy like a Bo Nickel or a Daniel Cormier, teach him jiu jitsu. They're gonna, Hamzat Chimaev is the best example of that. You know, you teach a guy like that submissions, he already knows how to ragdoll people. So he has this ability to take everybody down and then on top of that, he's gonna break your neck. Like, it's like, that extra skill, I think wrestling is like the foundation. That's the one thing, cause then you can dictate whether to fight. This episode is presented by Searchlight Pictures, Wild Horse Nine, shortly before Chile's nineteen seventy-three coup to

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• 11:14Joe Rogan?

  Goes to the ground or stays up, you know?

• 11:17Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 11:18Joe Rogan?

  And then, once you learn submissions, which is pretty easy for a wrestler to learn, it's pretty similar.

• 11:23Speaker 02

  It's the same sport. I used to wrestle, and it's like the cradle for the pin versus an arm bar, right?

• 11:29Joe Rogan?

  Sure. Darce jokes, all these different things come from similar positions. But then, stand-up, you know? You have to have stand-up today because every... I think, you know, I've been talking about this a lot. I don't think... I think when you have a fight, and it's five rounds, say, of a fight, if a guy's mounted on top of a guy at the end of the first round, I think the second round should start with that guy mounted on top of you. I don't think they should start standing up, because it doesn't make any sense. Like, you didn't earn that stand-up. That guy took you down, he got on top of you, he's mounted on you, you're about to get fucked up, and then all of a sudden you have a reprieve from the governor.

• 12:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, reset.

• 12:05Joe Rogan?

  Because the round is over, and now you're standing up again. And if you're a striker, that's your world. But you didn't earn that position.

• 12:10Speaker 02

  Right.

• 12:11Joe Rogan?

  It's one fight, it's not five fights. It's one fight.

• 12:13Speaker 02

  Right.

• 12:14Joe Rogan?

  So why should you have a beginning of every round where you're standing up?

• 12:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, I agree. I agree with that.

• 12:19Joe Rogan?

  If I could change the rules, that's the first rule that I would change. I would say, whatever position you were in at the end of the round, that's where you start.

• 12:26Speaker 02

  I completely agree with that. And I always feel like that it just fucks shit up.

• 12:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 12:31Speaker 02

  You know what I mean? And then, you know this, doing jiu-jitsu is like, seconds matter. And this fight could turn around in seconds, but those seconds can't happen if we stop this early.

• 12:42Joe Rogan?

  100%, yeah.

• 12:43Speaker 02

  I agree with that.

• 12:44Joe Rogan?

  Well, the early days were wild, right? Because there was no time limit.

• 12:47Speaker 02

  That's what I watched. The early days is my heyday. Like, I could not get enough. I was, you know, a fight dummy for HOA for...

• 12:57Speaker 02

  Sakuraba, uh, who else? Oh, Hoyce. So, okay, I'll tell you a quick story about Hoyce. He, uh, he comes out, we're doing jits with him. And, uh, I'm a new guy, so I'm like, hey, you could share my wall locker, right? And you got a wall locker and you got like your towel, cause the shower's down in the hallway. You know what I mean? Like, uh, I have my clothes, right? And then, so Hoyce put his family pictures, and I didn't notice this, but they slowly did this. Him and my team re-tagged everything with like my last name and team numbers with Hoyce. Right? So they re-tagged all my gear as Hoyce, right? They, uh, Hoyce put his kids' pictures up over mine, right? And one day I'm in the, I'm in my locker like, is this my locker?

• 13:41Speaker 02

  Like, what the fuck? What the fuck is going on? And I'm like, whose kids are these? Like, and then, uh, Hoyce is like, you know, yes, you like my kids? And I'm like, oh, those are your kids? Like, nah, that's cool, right? Like, years later, I'm in Iraq and I'm like, I gotta go for like one of these surges into Fallujah with another squadron and like their Ops R Major calling me by name. And it's like, I've been in Iraq like 30 seconds, these guys are calling me by name? Like, what the fuck? You know? And then he was like, we're getting your stuff, uh, it's on a, it's on the helicopter. You need to get on this little bird, we're leaving like 20 minutes. And literally I got on the little bird, they bring my kid over, I get my shit on, right? And they're like, yo, whose shit is, hey, Royce? Is there a Royce?

• 14:26Speaker 02

  Royce? You know what I mean? And then like my bag is one, it's fucking still tagged with Hoyce's name.

• 14:32Joe Rogan?

  That's hilarious. That's hilarious. So you started training martial arts in, when you were in the military?

• 14:39Speaker 02

  In the unit, yeah.

• 14:40Joe Rogan?

  In the unit. So, did they have, like, was it like technical training? Did they teach you? Did you, did they have like real instructors? Or was, how does it work?

• 14:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, so, uh, in training, when you kind of make it to the unit, there's a hand-to-hand program. A lot of the hand-to-hand program is like, traditionally, like, you gotta cuff people. You know what I mean? Like, which is all Japanese wrist locks, which is a foundation for a lot of shit, right? You know, you learn that stuff like how if you have a weapon, how to like approach somebody if they grab your weapon, what to do. So it was all like a weapon focused, like more like self-defense. But I think back then in my day, right? In the nineties, it was still, bro, come at me like this. You know what I mean? And you're like, why the fuck would I stand like this ever? Like, what the fuck was I doing that got me here?

• 15:32Speaker 02

  You know what I mean? Like, so it was always some back then, there was a lot of hocus-pocus. So we kind of had our own training program. And then as my years, the training program got better because we started getting hoisted. We started ground fighting, you know? I think the premise for everything they taught in my day when I was a student was like, uh, you know, weapons retention, Japanese wrist lock to get someone cuffed, you know, two man cuffing procedures, searching, and then like how to defend yourself if someone grabbed your weapon or if you went to the ground, right?

• 16:06Joe Rogan?

  Right. Which is all stuff you have to know.

• 16:08Speaker 02

  Right.

• 16:09Joe Rogan?

  But there wasn't a lot of like, just one-on-one.

• 16:12Speaker 02

  No, no, it's like, you know, you're in the, you're in the gym, they roll out the wrestling mat and it's like, okay, come at the guy like with your rifle, uh, you know, a bunch of fucking white belts, basically like out there fucking around, basically.

• 16:26Joe Rogan?

  Was it like, uh, was there a system, like a training system?

• 16:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, there was a, there was a system back then and the system was really, um, I think kind of four things without, uh, really knowing what they did back then. I went through the training, but I don't really know what the hand-to-hand was back then until later when I was like in the hand-to-hand program or fighting with guys, you know what I mean? But, um, I would say this, back then, I'd say it was wrestling, it was, uh, Muay Thai, right? It was a little bit of Japanese wrist locks and some Filipino martial arts.

• 17:05Joe Rogan?

  Oh, like Kali?

• 17:06Speaker 02

  Kali, yeah. We had guys that would do the sticks. I know a little bit of the sticks, you know, like first time I got smacked 37 fucking times around the head was another guy. This guy with his sticks, it was like, what the fuck was that? Like, how do these sticks move so fucking fast?

• 17:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah dudes are good with that, are very impressive.

• 17:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, super impressive. So I think that was really the foundation, like, and you know, maybe like some, I don't know, like, dirty boxing, I would kinda imagine, you know what I mean?

• 17:34Joe Rogan?

  Clinching.

• 17:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, clinching, punching, stuff like that.

• 17:37Joe Rogan?

  Did, how did the Filipinos develop that stick fighting? Like, where'd that come from?

• 17:41Speaker 02

  Oh, man.

• 17:42Joe Rogan?

  Weird, weird that like, one culture is known for their stick fighting.

• 17:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 17:45Joe Rogan?

  Kinda odd.

• 17:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, but hey, I love all that, uh, that the stick fighting, what do they call it? Pontukin or whatever, the dirty boxing they do, like, all very, make your opponent off balance at the same time you can strike. Or if they are trying to strike you, knock them off balance, stuff like that.

• 18:06Joe Rogan?

  I'm just, I've always been so fascinated how different cultures have a completely different approach to fighting. Like, the Thais figured out the best way to fight stand-up.

• 18:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 18:16Joe Rogan?

  Kick the shit out of the legs.

• 18:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, fucking kick his leg.

• 18:19Joe Rogan?

  Elbow the fuck out of people in the clinch.

• 18:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 18:21Joe Rogan?

  Plung, knees.

• 18:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, the clinch.

• 18:23Joe Rogan?

  Knees to the body, knees to the face. They figured out striking in a way that nobody else had. It's so weird that they did it.

• 18:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 18:30Joe Rogan?

  And I think it's just because of the competition all the time and the betting.

• 18:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 18:34Joe Rogan?

  Because like, they were fighting so often and they had so much money on the line for fighting, that they developed a very pragmatic way of fi- because they were fighting all the time.

• 18:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 18:45Joe Rogan?

  As opposed to like karate or any of these other things. I don't think they were really fighting as much.

• 18:49Speaker 02

  Well, we don't, I mean, think about America, like, prior to Mike Tyson, boxing was kinda like, Americans, if they would have seen like Hickson Gracie, you know, Hickson Gracie would have been popular in like the seventies or sixties, people have been like, well, that's not civilized fighting, you know what I mean?

• 19:08Joe Rogan?

  Right, right.

• 19:08Speaker 02

  Get your dukes up, this has gotta be fair, you know what I mean? Americans have a, a very fair sense of what fighting should be. Like, Americans hate like dirty fighting and, but, you know, all the, all Muay Thai and, and uh, Kali and all that, they, that was all seen, you know, those guys would come from Asia. Fight around the states here, fucking kick everyone's ass. And people still weren't attracted to it.

• 19:32Joe Rogan?

  Did you ever see, there's one fight, that's like, one of the most important fights in kickboxing. Where Rick Rufus, who was like, the king of American style kickboxing, like above the waist kickboxing. Fought this Thai guy. I forget how, I can't pronounce the guy's name correctly, so I don't want to butcher it. But this, and Rick Rufus was fucking him up in the beginning. He dropped him, he had him in real trouble. Rick Rufus was really good. But this dude just kept chopping at the legs, chopping at the legs. And by the end of the fight, Rick's in a heap on the ground. And his own brother, Duke Rufus, who became a world Muay Thai champion himself, later. And became one of the best trainers in MMA. This is, so this is the fight. What happened? I'll show you his name. Oh, that's how, his name? Uh, good luck saying that one.

• 20:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:15Joe Rogan?

  But, oh, this is not, this is a different, this is like a compilation of a bunch of different people fighting. That's not.

• 20:24Joe Rogan?

  This is it. The fight that changed, uh, kickboxing. So, this, this fight, well, this isn't it. This is a bunch of other shit. Go, go into the fight itself.

• 20:33Speaker 02

  Fucking Chuck Norris. I seen Chuck in there.

• 20:37Joe Rogan?

  Chuck was legit. Chuck was very legit. So this is the fight. So in the beginning, Rick Rufus, who's like this above the waist kicks, he drops him with the left hand. Rick was really fucking good, man. He was really good. But they just didn't know anything about the leg kicks. And after the fight, like, his brother Duke was like, well, I don't think there's any skill involved in kicking the legs. And he was saying that, look, he drops him again. So he dropped him two times. Looked like Rick is fucking him up. But this Thai guy, just, he's probably had 200 fights. And he just keeps kicking at the legs. And after a while, Rick's legs are just dead. I mean, the Thai guy's getting lit up.

• 21:12Joe Rogan?

  But Rick became, uh, an unbelievable leg kicker himself, after this. But no one knew. They just, they just didn't know. So as the fight goes on. And this is like, a huge, like, challenge match. See, look, he drops him with this leg kick. After a while, Rick just can't move anymore. And this dude.

• 21:32Speaker 02

  He ain't even running away well.

• 21:34Joe Rogan?

  No, he's, his legs are dead right now. And he's just getting, every time this Thai's kicking him, he can barely walk. And then at the end of the fight, he winds up in a heap. Cause he just doesn't know. You know, he doesn't know yet. And he's getting dumped too. Like, look at these fucking low kicks. Devastating low kicks. And at the end of the fight. He's just in a heap on the ground.

• 21:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, his kick had no power there.

• 21:57Joe Rogan?

  But the thing is like, Rick was really fucking good back in the day. So when you, that, that didn't show the end of the fight, but at the end of the fight, he just, he brutalized him with just low kicks. The Thais had figured something out that nobody had figured out, and it's kind of shocking that this one area of the world, like this one small island, that they figured it out.

• 22:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:17Joe Rogan?

  It's kind of crazy.

• 22:18Speaker 02

  I love it.

• 22:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I, I love it too. It's just, and then Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, right?

• 22:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 22:23Joe Rogan?

  Until, you know, Maeda comes to Brazil in like the 1930s or some shit.

• 22:28Speaker 02

  Whatever that was.

• 22:29Joe Rogan?

  Whenever that was, and then they go, the Brazilians are like, huh, I think we can fix this. And they start like, you know, because Ilio was a small guy and Helio is like going, well, what about if we just did it this way? We fought with leverage and just instead of using strength, we used technique and changed everything.

• 22:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:46Joe Rogan?

  Changed martial arts forever.

• 22:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:48Joe Rogan?

  It's wild.

• 22:49Speaker 02

  I love all of it. Yeah. I'll tell you, that leg kick is my go-to in Iraq and Afghanistan. You know what I mean? Like, I get about this far from you. This is good distance for me. You can't grab my weapons, but what I would do is I'd throw the Thai leg kick, but I wouldn't aim for the middle of the thigh. I don't care about your pain. I'd hit your knee and either it's going to break your knee or it's going to knock you out of your little fucking slippers. And then I just stand on your neck.

• 23:18Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's, it's one of the most effective things you could do. You take away someone's base.

• 23:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:23Joe Rogan?

  And, you know, it's a crazy thing about MMA is now we're learning that kicking in the calf is actually even more effective than kicking in the thigh.

• 23:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:31Joe Rogan?

  Because there's no meat there.

• 23:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, fucking hurts.

• 23:33Joe Rogan?

  Slam a shin into that and all of a sudden your foot goes floppy. It doesn't work anymore. Your leg's useless. It's crazy. And we've figured that out over the last five or six years, which is really nuts. Like Michael Bisping, who was a world champion, told me he went his whole career without ever getting kicked in the calf.

• 23:50Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 23:51Joe Rogan?

  And that was like, you know, four, four or five years ago, he was a world champion. And went his entire career without getting kicked in the calf. Nuts. It's nuts. It's like it's constantly changing and evolving.

• 24:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:03Joe Rogan?

  Like people find something that works and they're like, oh, what about this?

• 24:06Speaker 02

  I love that it's always evolving too.

• 24:08Joe Rogan?

  Well, martial arts have evolved more in the last thirty years than they have in the last thirty thousand years.

• 24:13Speaker 02

  I agree.

• 24:13Joe Rogan?

  That's a fact.

• 24:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:14Joe Rogan?

  That's a fact.

• 24:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:16Joe Rogan?

  That's kind of shocking. You think about how long people have been fighting.

• 24:19Speaker 02

  I don't know. You know, I see this, you know, I shoot every day. I teach people to shoot all over the country all the time, right? And it's kind of interesting to me that, um, I don't think it works like that. You know what I mean? Like you would, you would think people would have been doing this right the whole time, but there's like a lot of myth involved and, and it gets watered down over time, I think.

• 24:44Joe Rogan?

  Even in shooting?

• 24:45Speaker 02

  Even in shooting, yeah.

• 24:46Joe Rogan?

  Like what are the myths in shooting?

• 24:48Speaker 02

  Oh, so fucking many, man.

• 24:50Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 24:50Speaker 02

  Do we got the time?

• 24:51Joe Rogan?

  We got time!

• 24:52Speaker 02

  I'll fucking shred this shit. The NRA, I go to, I speak at the NRA shows, like the NRA hires me, I speak at the NRA show this year. I actually got roofied in fucking Dallas.

• 25:02Joe Rogan?

  What?

• 25:03Speaker 02

  At the NRA show, yeah. No shit.

• 25:05Joe Rogan?

  Do you know who did it?

• 25:06Speaker 02

  Uh, so is fucking, this is crazy, right? But, uh, okay, I have an assistant, right? Um, I don't know. She's like thirty, blonde girl, pretty girl. Her and her husband are, are with me. And I'm with like the surefire representative, like, yo, sorry, we got you roofied, by the way. Uh, and then like some other guys, right? And we get done with the show and we just go have a drink or two and we're going into like the hotel restaurant to eat a nice steak dinner. You know what I mean? So we get a round of drinks and it was, uh, like well old fashions is what it was. Well old fashions. And my assistant's like, I sit next to her, she's like, I just can't drink anymore.

• 25:48Speaker 02

  You know what I mean? Like, these are horrible old fashions. I just can't, I just can't drink these anymore. And it was like, hey, we'll be at dinner in a minute. They got good booze at the good restaurant. We'll get anything you want, right? So she's like, okay. So I was like, here, I'll take it. So I held my cup up. And then I kind of held my cup up, the surefire guy, her husband, and she kind of fills us all up equally. And so.

• 26:11Joe Rogan?

  So somebody was trying to roofie her?

• 26:12Speaker 02

  Her, right? So, yeah, this is in Dallas, right? So, okay, so.

• 26:19Speaker 02

  We go to dinner. I don't know. I get this wagyu burger. It's fucking delicious. I'm kind of buzzed. I'm drinking good whiskey. You know what I mean? We're having a good time, right? I love good food, right? So I'm having a great time. Her husband's at the end of the table and all of a sudden, and this is like within forty-five minutes of that drink, which I also didn't know, right? So his head hits the table, boom. And I look at him and I'm like, like, like, is he okay? And then like, hey, you know how like, you know them blow up pools where you pull down the side and the water just kind of glides over the top? Yo, his mouth opens and it was just like, whoa, across the table. You know what I mean?

• 27:03Speaker 02

  And I was like, I pushed away from the table like so it didn't leak on me. And I was like, we gotta go. You know what I mean? It's time to leave. You know what I mean? I'll get the check by the front door or something. You know what I mean? But it's, we definitely, it's time.

• 27:14Joe Rogan?

  And you weren't feeling it yet?

• 27:16Speaker 02

  No, I wasn't, I didn't, I didn't feel anything yet, right? So, okay, so it was like, I've never seen this happen to this guy ever, right? So he, this isn't him, like, so it's kind of weird, right? So my assistant's like, hey, I'll take him up to the room. I was like, okay, well, we're gonna go have a few more drinks at the bar, right? So me and the other guy go to the bar. She goes up to her room, right? I don't know any of this is happening, but as soon as they get to the room, head of security's knocking on the door. So my assistant answers and I guess the guy was like, is, is there a guy that threw up in the restaurant here? And she's like, he's in the bathtub naked right now, like. And then the head of security like, hey, we watched the tapes. Ton of info comes out, right? So I don't.

• 28:01Joe Rogan?

  Know who did it?

• 28:02Speaker 02

  I think so, but like, and then.

• 28:05Joe Rogan?

  Did it tell you?

• 28:06Speaker 02

  No, no, no. They, they talked to my assistant and then her husband, right? Like, so I go down to the bar, right? I put my credit card on the bar and like, I fucking party till all hours of the night, yo. What did I learn? If you roofie me, like, you're gonna wait six hours to get that booty because once you give me drugs, I want to party, baby. You know what I mean? Like. So I'm out like, I don't know what the fuck the surefire guy fucking Peters out on me and I'm probably just in the lobby alone like fucked up. I don't know.

• 28:38Joe Rogan?

  Do you know what was in it?

• 28:40Speaker 02

  Fuck no.

• 28:41Joe Rogan?

  Cause it was just something. It wasn't necessarily roofie, roof and all.

• 28:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:45Joe Rogan?

  Probably something.

• 28:46Speaker 02

  I don't know what it was.

• 28:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 28:48Speaker 02

  So, uh, the next day we check out, right? Show's over. We check out. So, uh, my assistant's knocking on my door, right? And I'm a get up early guy. I do my cardio, you know? So I'm normally up early and she's knocking on my door, right? So I answer my door and I'm like thinking, the fuck is she doing here so early, right? Both of them, her and her husband. And she's like, you know, I'm glad you're okay. And I'm like, uh, what? You know what I mean? And she's like, what? Why? And she looks, she's looking at me. She's like, not you too. And I'm like, me too, what? You know what I mean? I'm kind of foggy, right? Uh, it was like fucking, it was checkout. It was after checkout time. I slept till like fucking one in the afternoon.

• 29:31Speaker 02

  The next day I had the worst fucking hangover ever. Like if that was roofies do the hangover, I understand why people don't do them recreationally. You know what I mean? Like I had the worst fucking hangover. So she's like,

• 29:46Joe Rogan?

  Did anybody get tested to find out what it is?

• 29:48Speaker 02

  Mm hmm. No, they had to fly home that afternoon. They got me in my Sprinter van. I had to go do a class like somewhere else. I was on the fucking road. So like she got me, they drove me to breakfast, got me something to eat, kind of sobered me up a little bit, right? And then, um, they went to the airport, dropped me off and I drove somewhere else in Texas. I was working here. Um, and then, uh, you know, the, the head of security talked to her and her husband, called them a couple of days later, check on them, make sure they were okay. But long story short is we had a round of drinks that none of us ordered, come to our table. And they came to our table from the same waitress that we had. You know what I mean? So somehow we got a round of drinks and we even paid for them.

• 30:32Speaker 02

  And when I got the bill, like, I don't know, we had two drinks and we were getting ready to go. And then the, a third one came and I just figured, well, someone, one of these, someone ordered it, you know what I mean? It'll be fine. And then I just paid for it all, didn't not even think of it.

• 30:46Joe Rogan?

  And so did the security know who roofied you?

• 30:48Speaker 02

  Uh, I think so. I think so.

• 30:50Joe Rogan?

  Tell you?

• 30:51Speaker 02

  I think they told my assistant. I think they.

• 30:53Joe Rogan?

  And you didn't ask her?

• 30:54Speaker 02

  No, I didn't care. Yeah.

• 30:56Joe Rogan?

  Oh, I'd wanna know. I think it was like a targeted thing where they just fucking rob ya. Oh. You know what I'm saying? I like, I don't think, I mean, alright, first and foremost, I think everyone's trying to burgle booty holes this day and age and you gotta keep yours safe. So, there's that, right? But, uh, I also think like, uh, I think it was like, they know all these people are in for these conventions, so they try to drug somebody and just- Yeah, just rob 'em. Just fuck, you could've just took my, I'd have handed you my wallet, I thought, you know what I mean? There wouldn't, there's not a crime. It happened to a buddy of mine recently. Oh, yeah? Yeah, he met this girl and they go back to his place and then he wakes up the next day and he's robbed. Oh. Stole his Rolex, stole twenty-five thousand dollars in cash from him, but he got tested.

• 31:41Joe Rogan?

  And he had, um, I think it was Xanax. She piled a bunch of Xanax into his drink and he was just out. Didn't know what the fuck happened. Came to the club afterwards. He was like all fucked up, came to the comedy club. He's a comedian, Hans Kim. Shout out to Hans. Hilarious guy. So, he's like, "Something happened, I don't know what happened." We were like, "Hey, man, go to fucking, go get tested right now while it's still in your system." So, he goes and- This episode is brought to you by The Farmer's Dog. Here's a fun fact. Research shows that dogs who maintain a healthy weight can live up to two and a half years longer on average than dogs who are overweight. Isn't that wild and also kind of obvious at the same time?

• 32:22Joe Rogan?

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• 33:06Joe Rogan?

  To that is yes, obviously. So try the farmer's dog today and get 50% off your first box of fresh, healthy food. Plus, get free shipping. Just go to thefarmersdog.com/rogan. This offer is for new customers only. This episode is brought to you by Squarespace. If you're thinking about building a website, you should try Squarespace. I know because I use it. That's right. JoeRogan.com is powered by Squarespace. It has all the features that you need to create a standout website like an AI-enhanced website builder, SEO optimization tools, and seamless checkouts

• 33:48Joe Rogan?

  with mobile pay links. Head to Squarespace.com/rogan for a free trial. And when you are ready to launch, use the offer code ROGEN to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Gets his hair tested and they they found that there was roofies in him. Damn. I didn't even know you could be tested. Yeah, you can be tested. Oh shit. But you, there's like a time period. If you test hair, it'll like last a little longer. And I think he laid waited a day so they had to test hair. But within a certain time period, they can test you and find out what it is. And they said, did you take any Xanax? He's like, no. And like, you have a lot of Xanax in your system. And apparently that's one of the things that they give people to rob them. Dang. Does it cause a hangover? I'm sure. It's got to. Fuck, if you're gonna drug me.

• 34:33Joe Rogan?

  Anything that's gonna whack you out. Drug me, you know, if you're gonna rob me, like, I just want to say this to the world. If you're gonna fucking rob me, like, give me the non-hangover shit. You're getting my shit anyway. What is the non-hangover shit? Fuck, I don't know. Whatever that shit is. You know more about drugs than me. I was in the army my whole life. I don't think it exists. Damn it, Joe. I think it's prescription stuff or GHB. I know a lot of people give people GHB. I've heard of that. That just gets you like, you don't know what the fuck's going on. I've heard of that. I've heard of people getting roofied. If I was a woman, I'd be fucking terrified to accept a drink from anybody.

• 35:02Speaker 02

  Fuck.

• 35:03Joe Rogan?

  Dudes are, I've talked to so many ladies that have had their, their alcohol drugged by someone. Women go to bars, they keep their fucking hand over their drink all the time. Even when they're turning around and looking away, because they just never know. Some guy just dropped something in there real quick.

• 35:16Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 35:17Joe Rogan?

  Next thing you know, you're going home with them, you don't even know where you are.

• 35:20Speaker 02

  I had a buddy, uh, he doesn't even drink, like someone convinced him to have like a glass of wine, small town, North Carolina. And like the cops pulled him over like, you know, not far down the road. And he was like, I don't know what's going on, but I can't feel my hands, you know what I mean? Like, and he's like, he's just a regular guy, you know, and um, they brought him back to the station and someone had put, I think it was a little bit of fentanyl or some shit in the wine and, like he, he left and he said he felt fine and he was driving, he said, like, I don't feel right, even though like he doesn't really, he had one glass of wine, like, he might, he doesn't even drink, you know, I don't even know why he had a glass of wine, someone probably talked him into it, you know what I mean? He probably didn't even finish it, but he's like, he, you know, he said he was lucky, he felt lucky.

• 36:05Joe Rogan?

  Fucking non-human people out there.

• 36:07Speaker 02

  I'm telling you, that's one of the things I wanted to talk about today is like, there's fucking real evil in the world and in Iraq, where in Afghanistan, you go into these, fucked up places where they've been like, I don't know, fucking raping, beheading people, fucking,

• 36:23Joe Rogan?

  Forever.

• 36:23Speaker 02

  Tribal shit forever.

• 36:25Joe Rogan?

  Forever.

• 36:25Speaker 02

  Like there was buildings, I didn't even want to fucking go in, like you'd, you'd go and you'd be like, every fucking hair on my body just be standing up and I mean, at the doorway, I'd be like, I don't even want to clear this fucking building, you know what I mean? And I don't know fucking why, but uh, I know there's fucking old evil in this world, man.

• 36:42Joe Rogan?

  Evil's real.

• 36:43Speaker 02

  It's fucking real.

• 36:44Joe Rogan?

  And if you've never experienced it, you could walk around delusional, think, oh, come on.

• 36:47Speaker 02

  It's real, you can feel it, like, when I'm around real evil shit, only two places I felt real evil shit in my life is Gettysburg and fucking in Iraq and Afghanistan. Yeah, I, I felt that, like, I did. Because I felt evil before and it like makes me wanna throw up. It hurts my stomach.

• 37:07Joe Rogan?

  You mean in the area of Gettysburg?

• 37:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, on the battlefield.

• 37:11Joe Rogan?

  My stepfather felt the same thing and he's not woo woo at all. He's like a real straight edged guy.

• 37:16Speaker 02

  Fuck, man.

• 37:17Joe Rogan?

  And he said it felt so creepy.

• 37:19Speaker 02

  I was almost gonna, me and uh, me and my, my son were out there ghost hunting, right? And we were both gonna throw up and I didn't tell him, but like I had felt that feeling before.

• 37:29Joe Rogan?

  It's crazy that you said that about Gettysburg, cuz my stepdad's never said anything like that before. And he said, just the feeling, it was so sad and creepy and you just wanted to get out of there immediately.

• 37:40Speaker 02

  Makes me wanna throw up, that feeling.

• 37:41Joe Rogan?

  I think places have memory. I really believe that.

• 37:44Speaker 02

  Well, it's, I think it's energy and I don't think it can be created or fucking, you, you talk to science guys, right? Energy don't go away, right?

• 37:52Joe Rogan?

  Well, I think you just don't see it and you can't measure it, so you assume it's not there. But I think that's one of the reasons why when someone gets murdered in a house, they have to tell you about it.

• 38:01Speaker 02

  Right?

• 38:02Joe Rogan?

  They have to, because like people, they, they know, like there was JonBenet Ramsey's house. When I lived in Boulder, I lived in Boulder for a while and we were looking at houses to buy. And there was this one house, it was like really cheap for the house. I was like, this is a nice fucking house. They had changed the name of the street so they could try to sell this house. Because everybody knew that it was the house that JonBenet Ramsey had been killed in. They couldn't fucking sell the house. And we were, yeah, fuck that house. We were looking at the house on like Zillow and we're like, oh, this is a beautiful house. Maybe we should go check out this house. And then we found out, we're like, oh, that's why they can't sell it. Like, oh, man. Like they changed the name of the street to try to sell this house.

• 38:40Speaker 02

  It's fucked up. Should've just bulldozed it.

• 38:42Joe Rogan?

  They should've bulldozed it and then, what do you do about the ground? It's still there. You still, would you wanna live in a place where they bulldoze the house where a little girl is getting killed? Fuck that.

• 38:52Speaker 02

  Not, not even, not even joking about it. I don't wanna live there.

• 38:55Joe Rogan?

  No, no one wants to live there. I don't even know what it, what it is now. I mean, I don't know if anybody ever bought it.

• 38:59Speaker 02

  Yeah. I grew up in old houses in the Chicago area, you know what I mean? And like some of them houses were creepy for no reason and some weren't. You know what I'm saying? Like.

• 39:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah. Well, there's something, there's something to that.

• 39:12Speaker 02

  Hey, I was, I was in Iraq and I was in one of them like, you know, Uday and Kuse, like fucking raped people. Them guys were evil.

• 39:20Joe Rogan?

  You went to like their, like their palace?

• 39:22Speaker 02

  All of them. My, yeah, I, I carried, I carried their bodies off an airplane and had to guard them. Until they got cleaned up by the morgue and DNA tested.

• 39:35Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 39:36Speaker 02

  But uh, them fucking guys, them palaces, like they would pick up like fucking 12 year olds off the street. They didn't give a fuck. The lions, we found them fucking, so, Uday had lions and the lions were, it's not funny, but I mean, it's kind of humorous, but I think it's funny. Uh, the lions were like on the, the army side, the big army side and they were inside this fence, right? And then the lions were like just lazy as fuck, didn't care about no army guys. And then one day I seen a lady and kids walk by and they're just behind chain link. And them fucking lions went nuts and I knew like, only that, fuck yeah. Fuck yeah. They were fucking evil, man.

• 40:21Joe Rogan?

  I've read so many horrible stories about those guys. They would find a woman who was getting married and uh, they would rape her and then feed her to their dogs.

• 40:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, or the fucking carp outside the palaces, you know, them big lakes? Full of these giant carps that just were gonna eat bodies like you read about. Yeah, but uh, so I was down in one of those one night just cause like I could be and I had my flashlight, always been fascinated by ghost hunting, by the way. Uh, so I'm down there by myself just exploring, you know what I mean? And like fucking door slammed on me, you know what I mean? I was freaked the fuck out and I'm the only one down there, you know what I mean? Like freaked me the fuck out, man. And the energy down in those fucking like rape rooms or whatever, I don't know what the fuck you call it. Like they did fucking bad shit there. It's just like,

• 41:13Speaker 02

  I don't know, like it, it like, you ever ride like a roller coaster and it like turns your, turns your stomach?

• 41:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 41:20Speaker 02

  That's how it feels to me in them rooms. I don't know what that is, but it makes me almost want to throw up. And the stronger it is, the more I feel like I'm gonna throw up.

• 41:29Speaker 02

  But um.

• 41:30Joe Rogan?

  Those guys were such fucking monsters. It's just so crazy that that that story repeats itself over and over again, like the sons of kings.

• 41:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:40Joe Rogan?

  That grow up that way are always just super fucking evil because they have unchecked power from the time they're a child.

• 41:47Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah, I got I gotta be honest, if I could clone myself and I'd had like a mini me right now, I would abuse him. Just to make sure he grows up right. I would raise him right. You know what I mean?

• 41:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 41:59Speaker 02

  Uh, I don't and I when I say abuse him, I mean like.

• 42:02Joe Rogan?

  Force him to work hard.

• 42:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, fucking earn his shit his whole fucking life. I mean, like, yeah, I had a guy like I had a. Uh, I don't know what he was. I was in the Middle East somewhere and uh, one of the guys asked me like, are American babies stupid? And I'm like, what? And he's like, are American babies stupid? And I'm like, why? And he's like, well, in America, like, there would be a fence at the edge of the cliff so the baby can't go over. In my country, like, the baby knows, don't go by the cliff. And I'm like, uh, I don't know, like, fuck, what the fuck?

• 42:34Joe Rogan?

  Well, I bet they don't. I bet the babies that don't know go off the cliff and there those genes never propagate.

• 42:40Speaker 02

  Again.

• 42:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 42:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:41Joe Rogan?

  That's the most harsh form of natural selection.

• 42:44Speaker 02

  Darwinism right there.

• 42:45Joe Rogan?

  The most harsh form of it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no fucking, I mean, kids that grow up outside, lock key kids, like when I was a kid.

• 42:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:53Joe Rogan?

  You just left out of the house. Bye, have fun. And you figure out who's the child molester.

• 42:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 42:58Joe Rogan?

  You figure you figure out who's a creep, who's what's dangerous. Don't go near the train tracks. Can't hear the train till it's too late.

• 43:04Speaker 02

  Stay away from the drunks.

• 43:05Joe Rogan?

  That gets hit. Yeah.

• 43:06Speaker 02

  At the liquor store.

• 43:07Joe Rogan?

  Exactly. Yeah.

• 43:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, I did the same thing.

• 43:10Joe Rogan?

  You learn about danger.

• 43:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, I tell you, my uh, I lot I got my first key. I was six. I fucking lost it like the same day. My mom's yelling at me and she's like, you know, what do you got to say for yourself? I was like, I still remember it's like one of my oldest memories. It's like, I'm six? And she was just kind of like, yeah.

• 43:31Speaker 02

  I'm six, like, I had it one fucking day, like, I never carried a key in my life, like, of course I'm gonna fuck this up, you know, and she was like, we can't afford all these keys, you know what I mean?

• 43:41Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 43:41Speaker 02

  Uh, but at the same time, like, I'm fucking six, you know, so we ended up having to hide it somewhere and then, you know, cause my brother wasn't good at fucking keys either, like.

• 43:50Joe Rogan?

  You know, it's fucked up that I don't want that to happen to my kids, like, I don't want my, I mean, my life was nothing like your life, but I was definitely like let loose in the world, you know, and not really given any guidance.

• 44:02Speaker 02

  Ton of, ton of let loose with no guidance.

• 44:05Joe Rogan?

  But that's how you make a person like you, like, a person like you doesn't come from a home that has like, you know, you're coddled, you're taken care of, you're always protected. Like, the only way you make like a legit beast of a man is that that man has to go through a lot of shit through their life and then they come out on the other end hard.

• 44:25Speaker 02

  Right.

• 44:25Joe Rogan?

  It's the only way, like, you don't, you know, I've never met like a world champion fighter that came from like the happiest of childhoods, it just doesn't exist.

• 44:34Speaker 02

  I don't, a lot of, a lot of unit or special forces or ranger guys, like, uh, I used to call it the fatherless, you know what I mean? And it, it works kinda two ways, either you had a dad, but he worked and he came home and he passed out and he woke up and he was gone before you got up. And when you got home, he was asleep on the couch or already out for the night, cause he fucking works fucking a lot of hours. Or you kinda just didn't have a dad, you know what I mean?

• 45:02Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 45:02Speaker 02

  Those people make special forces soldiers, just like, you know, dad issues for a chick or put her on a pole, those same issues in a dude puts them in special forces, I think. And I'll take the fatherless all day long.

• 45:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Yeah, well, those are the world champions, I mean, that's Mike Tyson, right? You know, he was 13 years old, no family.

• 45:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:23Joe Rogan?

  Gets adopted by a guy who's a psychologist who's a, you know, a hypnotist.

• 45:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:28Joe Rogan?

  And is a great boxing coach and teaches him to become this elite fighter. And you, I kinda think that you don't become that guy unless you're dealing with all sorts of unspeakable tragedy and horrors.

• 45:40Speaker 02

  Right.

• 45:40Joe Rogan?

  When you're a child.

• 45:41Speaker 02

  Well, you wouldn't have that kind of focus without that.

• 45:44Joe Rogan?

  Right. You wouldn't have that monster inside of you. Like you have to, that monster has to grow because it needs to be there.

• 45:49Speaker 02

  Right.

• 45:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 45:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, I would say like, and I don't know what the ratio is, but I would say like one out of every fucking hundred or three hundred is like the fucking high school quarterback who married the fucking prom king.

• 46:01Joe Rogan?

  Very rare.

• 46:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:03Joe Rogan?

  Very rare.

• 46:03Speaker 02

  I think I only knew one of those guys.

• 46:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and those guys, I bet if you dig into their childhood, their dad was probably a little abusive.

• 46:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, or their mom or.

• 46:11Joe Rogan?

  Or a brother.

• 46:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, something.

• 46:13Joe Rogan?

  There's another thing, older brothers. It's like you want to find the young brother. The young brother's the beast.

• 46:18Speaker 02

  I'm the little brother.

• 46:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's it. The young brother gets beat up by the older brother and just constantly in battle his whole life. Like so many fighters, the best fighters have like, like Chris Weidman's got a great story like that.

• 46:32Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, think about this. If you had to fight your bigger brother off your whole life, you would be good at jitsu. Why? Cause you understand leverage, you understand patience, wait for the move.

• 46:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 46:42Speaker 02

  Take some punishment, move later. You know the deal, right?

• 46:44Joe Rogan?

  You're also accustomed to being in battle all the time.

• 46:48Speaker 02

  Right.

• 46:48Joe Rogan?

  With your brother.

• 46:49Speaker 02

  Right.

• 46:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 46:50Speaker 02

  Hickson was a little brother to holes.

• 46:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 46:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, same thing.

• 46:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and Horian. Yeah, Hickson is, uh, he's such a unique guy because he was like the first guy that figured out like that physical strength, yoga, all the gymnastic natural stuff that he did, flexibility.

• 47:10Speaker 02

  Breathing.

• 47:10Joe Rogan?

  Like, yeah, he was like a physical specimen on top of being super technical.

• 47:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:15Joe Rogan?

  So he had like both things.

• 47:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, he had it all, I think, way before people knew.

• 47:20Joe Rogan?

  Way before.

• 47:21Speaker 02

  Like, he, he knew the winning mindset and how to keep that mental edge with all the other things. And the fighting was just something that he grew up to do, I think, in my opinion. You know what I mean?

• 47:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he had that samurai mindset.

• 47:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm telling you, I think he like, I talk to a lot of people, uh, I know some legendary guys from the army, right?

• 47:47Speaker 02

  When he talks, it's like this weird time vortex. You ever talked to him like seriously?

• 47:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I've had a couple of podcasts with him.

• 47:53Speaker 02

  Wow, like it's incredible, you know?

• 47:55Joe Rogan?

  I went over his house once in like 2000 and him and um his, his son and we were watching Coliseum. So Coliseum was like the last time he fought, when he fought Funaki. And we were watching all the different fights. He had a tape of it and we're watching it. And he was breaking down all the things that all these guys were doing wrong. It was such a fascinating education. He's like, there's too much space. They start here, there's too much space. And he goes, he had this philosophy.

• 48:27Speaker 02

  Good accent, by the way.

• 48:29Joe Rogan?

  He goes, we started at a neutral point. We started at a neutral point. If I get to one, I'm not going back to zero. I'm going one to two to three to checkmate. He goes, I'm not going backwards. He goes, these guys, they lose position. They go for here, go for there, all this extra space. And he was like breaking it down while we're watching the fights. It was such an education.

• 48:50Speaker 02

  Love that.

• 48:51Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it was fucking amazing, man. It was amazing.

• 48:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, he's a, he's a legend.

• 48:55Joe Rogan?

  Oh, man, like one of the great legends of martial arts. You know, if you like go into the history of martial arts, Hickson Gracie will go down as, you know, if there's a Mount Rushmore of martial arts legends, him and Hoist are right up there.

• 49:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, I agree with that.

• 49:09Joe Rogan?

  And Hoist will tell you like Hickson, he goes, my brother was a hundred times better than me.

• 49:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, when Hoist used to come to us, he would tell us straight up, I'm not the family fighter.

• 49:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 49:18Speaker 02

  Our, our, you know, and I think what he told us back then was like, I don't know, Hickson was pride contracts. UFC was different, couldn't figure it out. That's why Hoist even fought, right? I thought that was kind of the deal back then, but I don't, that's a long time ago.

• 49:34Joe Rogan?

  There was a bunch of different thoughts on it, you know, Hoist jokes around, he goes, he goes, look how beautiful I am. That's why they wanted me. But it was also because Hickson was very physically dominant. And the idea was like, let's have this guy that doesn't look physically impressive to show jiu jitsu, to show the power of jiu jitsu. But if that doesn't work, then we bring in Hickson. But obviously, Hoy's beat everybody. And then Hickson went over to do Japan Valley Tudo.

• 50:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:01Joe Rogan?

  In like ninety-four, I think it was.

• 50:03Speaker 02

  I used to love all those, the Valley Tudo's, Pride. I thought that was the best.

• 50:07Joe Rogan?

  Oh, the great, the golden era of martial arts. Cause it's when everybody was learning.

• 50:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:12Joe Rogan?

  Like, holy shit, there's so much out there.

• 50:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, I agree. I loved every minute of that.

• 50:16Joe Rogan?

  And then Fedor Amelianenko comes on the scene, he's just like.

• 50:20Speaker 02

  Fedor is my favorite.

• 50:21Joe Rogan?

  One of the all-time greats, he's another one. I mean, if there's an, the greatest heavyweight of all time, you have to, he's gotta be in the conversation.

• 50:28Speaker 02

  I feel like, uh, back in the day, we'd be like, we'd be talking about fighting and it'd be like, man, I wonder if anyone's ever like, done this from like the mount. Yeah, Fedor won like six fights like that. And then like, I wonder if anyone's ever done like, something like this and like, well, Fedor won his last fight just like that. And you're just like, fucking this guy, like, you know what I mean?

• 50:48Joe Rogan?

  In his prime, he was a monster.

• 50:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, I agree.

• 50:50Joe Rogan?

  And so stoic, like his expression never changed.

• 50:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:53Joe Rogan?

  He gets head kicked, he gets suplexed, no- nothing.

• 50:56Speaker 02

  It's like no one's home in there, you know what I mean?

• 50:59Joe Rogan?

  Just didn't register, he was just a machine.

• 51:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I loved him. And I liked when he, uh, I seen an interview one time, remember his brother Alexander?

• 51:06Joe Rogan?

  Sure.

• 51:07Speaker 02

  He was like, Alexander is better than me if he just wouldn't party so much.

• 51:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he was an animal.

• 51:12Speaker 02

  And I was just thinking, fucking Fedor saying his brother's better than him, you know what I mean?

• 51:17Joe Rogan?

  Well, his brother was bigger and taller and was a nasty striker, man. His brother was a vicious striker.

• 51:22Speaker 02

  Had good kicks too.

• 51:23Joe Rogan?

  Oh my god, he was fucking good, man. But that was, that was the days where, you know, everyone was just kind of figuring out what worked and what didn't work.

• 51:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. You had, uh, Vanderlei, the Axe murderer, I can love it.

• 51:35Joe Rogan?

  It was also a time where everybody was juicy.

• 51:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:38Joe Rogan?

  The, the whole, the whole organization was like, I had a friend who was gonna fight over there and he was a hundred and seventy pounds. And they said, uh, no, we want you to fight at one eighty-five, go do steroids. Like, go do steroids. He's like, what the fuck? He's like, they tell us to do steroids. And when Ensign was on the podcast, he told me, in the contract, it said like in capital letters, we do not test for steroids. They're like, go have fun.

• 52:03Speaker 02

  Come back yoked up.

• 52:04Joe Rogan?

  Come back juicy.

• 52:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:05Joe Rogan?

  Everybody was juicy back then.

• 52:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:06Joe Rogan?

  Because it was the wild days. It was like the wild west.

• 52:09Speaker 02

  Right.

• 52:10Joe Rogan?

  They just wanted the best, most exciting fights possible.

• 52:13Speaker 02

  I think that's what people want now.

• 52:14Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 52:15Speaker 02

  You know what I mean?

• 52:15Joe Rogan?

  There's a real argument for that.

• 52:16Speaker 02

  I don't think the fans give a fuck about drug testing.

• 52:19Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 52:20Speaker 02

  You know, I don't think, look, and I think this is for all, like, the Olympics, I get it, but the NFL? Like, seriously? Why even fucking? Why?

• 52:28Joe Rogan?

  Why? What do you want the sport to suck? Like, baseball. That was the thing when they were doing, like, Mark McGuire and all that shit and Sammy Sosa.

• 52:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:35Joe Rogan?

  Why are you testing these guys? It's the most exciting thing is to hit a homerun. These guys are doing something that makes them better at hitting homeruns. Everybody should do that thing. Whatever the fuck that is.

• 52:44Speaker 02

  Think about how much more money that bring those organizations.

• 52:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but there was this thing back then that it was cheating. But what it really is is science. Like, they'd figure out there's a way where you recover more, you get stronger, you get faster, like, hey, do that, guys. And by the way, everybody else is doing it too. They're just, like, hiding it in some sort of a weird way. You know, they're just masking it and taking weird stuff. And there was, you know, that Balco scandal where they're all taking this stuff called the clear.

• 53:11Speaker 02

  Never even heard of that.

• 53:12Joe Rogan?

  You never heard of that?

• 53:13Speaker 02

  No, I don't even know this.

• 53:14Joe Rogan?

  Victor Conte on the podcast who created the clear. And what he, what, he's a scientist. And what he did is he, Balco Labs, they figured out that when they're testing, they're testing for very specific metabolites. So they took steroids and then they changed it slightly so that it didn't show up in the test. And they're giving them this stuff and they would all pass clear. And they were all fucking, just monsters like Barry Bonds.

• 53:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:38Joe Rogan?

  He was a monster. I met Barry Bonds in 1994. I was on this television show called Hardball. And Barry Bonds was, uh, you know, he was still a major league player, a big time player.

• 53:49Speaker 02

  Famous.

• 53:50Joe Rogan?

  But he was a regular guy. Like, he looked like a regular athlete. And then he started getting juicy. And then years later, he gained like 60 pounds and was just fucking smashing homeruns. Like, that would be good. Like, you should keep doing that, whatever you're doing.

• 54:05Speaker 02

  I think that's all sports. Yo, jump as high as you can. Take your fucking gear. Jump high, run far, smash each other. Let's go.

• 54:13Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's the enhanced games. You know, the enhanced games doing that. They're developing this whole protocol right now. And the enhanced game is gonna let people do whatever the fuck they want that works. And their idea is we are gonna develop the best athletes in every discipline. And then we're gonna give them a lot of money. And we're gonna like, fuck the Olympics. The Olympics is a giant scam.

• 54:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 54:36Joe Rogan?

  Because the Olympics, the athletes don't make any money. And NBC and all these broadcast networks and the IOC, they're making billions of dollars off the backs of these athletes' hard work. And no one is going to see them. They're going to see the athletes.

• 54:50Speaker 02

  Right.

• 54:50Joe Rogan?

  I mean, the athletes aren't even compensated. It's a crazy scam. It really is. Cause it's not like, if no one made any money, including the networks, including the IOC, great. Great. But that's not the case.

• 55:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 55:04Joe Rogan?

  Someone's making a fucking shit ton of money, but it's not the people that are putting in the hard work. It's the people that are pointing cameras at them.

• 55:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 55:12Joe Rogan?

  It's the dumbest fucking thing of all time.

• 55:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 55:15Joe Rogan?

  So the enhanced games is like, let's throw out the drug testing. Let's encourage people to do whatever the fuck that works. And let's give them a lot of money. So like whoever wins, whatever, they'll give them a million dollars.

• 55:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 55:26Joe Rogan?

  And then you'll get like the elite athletes will be like, well, why am I wasting my time competing for free? Maybe I blow out an ACL or herniate a disc and my career's over and I don't have shit to show for it. Or I can do steroids and then win and, and have money for the rest of my life.

• 55:43Speaker 02

  Yeah. I wanna watch the steroid sports.

• 55:46Joe Rogan?

  Of course.

• 55:47Speaker 02

  You know what I mean? The enhanced league or whatever it's called, like that sounds to me like the NFL is going away. I wanna see the mountain hit another mountain. You know what I mean? Like, let's go.

• 55:59Joe Rogan?

  If they just got, if they told the NFL, let's just like, everybody get juicy.

• 56:03Speaker 02

  Fuck.

• 56:04Joe Rogan?

  Those guys are already freaks.

• 56:05Speaker 02

  They're already doing it.

• 56:06Joe Rogan?

  Probably.

• 56:07Speaker 02

  You know what I mean? I mean, I can, I only imagine. I don't know.

• 56:10Joe Rogan?

  Have to be.

• 56:11Speaker 02

  My two senses, like, you're doing it anyway, just fucking go with it.

• 56:15Joe Rogan?

  The way I understand it is they allow, they let them know when testing is happening. And so then everybody.

• 56:21Speaker 02

  Waste the fucking money. You know what I mean? Like, phone it in. Let's just phone that in. You know what I mean? Like, yo, I took that drug test. Okay, click. Save some money for everybody.

• 56:29Joe Rogan?

  The drug test should be multiple choice. Fill it out. No, nothing.

• 56:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, the, the drug test should be, we're just kinda curious if you've had any success. And then we wanna know what works so we can recommend better stuff to people.

• 56:41Joe Rogan?

  Right. But there's this weird thing about, you know, protecting the athlete's health. Like, hey, fuckface, they're playing football. If you really cared about their health, you would tell them, don't play football. There's no way you care about their health. There's no fucking way. You know, it just doesn't make any sense.

• 56:59Speaker 02

  I mean, there's inherent nature as a danger there. Concussions, knees, shoulders, right?

• 57:04Joe Rogan?

  Everything gets blown out.

• 57:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 57:05Joe Rogan?

  How about vaccines? How about you making them get vaccinated and they have fucking heart attacks on the field? Does that make any sense? No. You don't care about their health. You're full of shit. Those guys didn't have to worry for a second about COVID. They're elite athletes of the highest order. Do you really think that something that is literally only kills, like, point oh three percent of the people who get it and those people or most of them have comorbidities? You really think elite athletes of the highest order had to worry about that? Of course they didn't. It's all bullshit. You don't care about them.

• 57:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 57:38Joe Rogan?

  Let them get juicy.

• 57:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, fucking juice it up, boys. Get that gear. You know what I mean? Hey, let's take those piss cups and turn them into fucking drink cups and serve them some whiskey in the locker room. Let's get this shit going. And I want more fighting in my sports. You know what I mean?

• 57:52Joe Rogan?

  That's why I like hockey.

• 57:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, I love hockey.

• 57:55Joe Rogan?

  The last sport that allows fistfights normally in the middle of a sport.

• 57:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 57:59Joe Rogan?

  It's the only sport that allows the occasional fistfight.

• 58:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 58:03Joe Rogan?

  Which is kinda crazy.

• 58:04Speaker 02

  I live in North Carolina and there's a, there's like a little local hockey team at Bragg. And like, every, I, I go to a lot of hockey games, cause it's like, it was like seven. For like a long time, you know what I mean? Uh, and they'll fucking blood on the ice on the Thanksgiving day and you know, they'll throw like, uh, they'll, they'll have like a non-league team come in and it's fucking blood on the ice, man. These like the Southern Provisional Hockey League like, I love this.

• 58:29Joe Rogan?

  It's just wild that that's the only sport where fist fighting is allowed.

• 58:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 58:34Joe Rogan?

  It's kind of crazy because it's grandfathered in.

• 58:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 58:37Joe Rogan?

  Because it's basically bare knuckle boxing in the middle of a sport.

• 58:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 58:41Joe Rogan?

  Which is real weird.

• 58:42Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, then you got soccer where like, you know, you rubbed elbows with the guy and he falls over and you're like, what the fuck? You're faking it like,

• 58:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 58:50Speaker 02

  I have children. I know the faker. Like what the fuck? Like I'm a parent. You can't fool me.

• 58:55Joe Rogan?

  Well, anybody could see. It's the dumbest thing. Like a hand.

• 58:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. Yeah, they fall on the ground.

• 59:01Joe Rogan?

  Down and they're fucking holding their side. They're holding their chest. It's so dumb. But it's also one of the reasons why it's not really accepted in America.

• 59:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, I agree.

• 59:08Joe Rogan?

  Watch that flopping where like, come on, get up. This is so crazy.

• 59:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, I totally agree.

• 59:14Joe Rogan?

  Especially when people watch football.

• 59:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 59:16Joe Rogan?

  You're watching guys get fucking waylaid.

• 59:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 59:19Joe Rogan?

  300 pounds, super athlete. They get up and shake it off.

• 59:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 59:22Joe Rogan?

  And then they're right back on the field.

• 59:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, the guy's like adjust his helmet a little bit. You know what I mean? Takes his mouthpiece out. You go, all right, good fucking move on.

• 59:30Joe Rogan?

  I just started watching football literally this last year. And, uh, you know, when I see guys collide, I fuck, I, I've had so many injuries, knee surgeries and shit and jujitsu injuries. I see guys get hit. I just like, fucking hold my knees. I hold my back like, oh. Cause it's the most brutal shit of all time. A guy who's 290 pounds is running, full blast and colliding with you with a hundred percent of his strength.

• 59:54Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah, it's fucking crazy, man.

• 59:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 59:57Speaker 02

  I used to, uh, when I was 38, I was a star major in the army and like, I don't know, hand to hand jujitsu kind of got boring for me. So like I was looking for other hobbies. I was at the PX and I seen like the Fort Bragg rugby team practices like Tuesday at six or something. So. I just went out there for something to do, man, and I'm gonna tell you, you think fucking jujitsu fucks people up? Fucking go play fucking rugby. Matter of fact, stay the fuck away from rugby, like, it's fucking brutal.

• 1:00:27Joe Rogan?

  No helmets.

• 1:00:28Speaker 02

  No, nothing, man. And like, uh, when I was a kid, I don't know if I can say this, but we played smear the queer all the time. Like, I don't know what you call that, but that's what it was just called when we were kids. I'd come home, my shirt would be ripped. I'd get another beating, cause like you ripped another shirt. These are expensive, you know what I mean? But like, it's my brothers anyway, right? Like, not like he bought me a shirt. Uh, but, uh, man, it was like crazy. My first practice, like the ball's sitting there and then one of the coaches is like, grab the ball and run. So I just fucking grabbed the ball and just ran every one of these little motherfuckers over. And then, uh, like guys are like, man, what college you play in? I was like, uh, uh, none? And I never played rugby a day in my, you know, my first game, you know, was like fucking in my third practice, you know what I mean?

• 1:01:13Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy.

• 1:01:13Speaker 02

  But in, in doing jujitsu and fighting people in Iraq every night, like I thought rugby was kinda easy. The guy's running at me and I just gotta take him down, fucking double legs. And then I started getting more tackles than anyone in my coach, you know, they keep stats and be like, you had like 80 tackles a game. How do you do that? And it's like, double, double, double leg take down, single leg, maybe a trip.

• 1:01:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:37Speaker 02

  You know what I mean? And but, uh, and then like, uh, one of the times, you know, one of the coaches was like, hey, will you teach us how, you know? How would you, how do you normally tackle? You get the most tackles and like double, single legs.

• 1:01:48Joe Rogan?

  So you're basically teaching them wrestling.

• 1:01:49Speaker 02

  I just taught wrestling.

• 1:01:50Joe Rogan?

  Why don't they teach them that? That would seem to be like a good skill.

• 1:01:55Speaker 02

  Pro level fuckers are doing that shit.

• 1:01:57Joe Rogan?

  They have to.

• 1:01:57Speaker 02

  Like, have to. You, I mean, cause think about this, like, um, I know a lot of linemen, um, do like cali for hand speed and stuff like that. You know what I mean? Right? Cause they gotta, they gotta win the hand fight. So I know there's a lot of sports that use a lot of discipline. So I would imagine they would have to be fucking having, you know, wrestling practice or take down tackle practice, right? I would imagine they're doing same shit as everyone else.

• 1:02:24Joe Rogan?

  Well, just understanding leverage and how to manipulate a body.

• 1:02:28Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:02:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:29Speaker 02

  Right. Well, there's no pads. So, you know, you can't come 30 miles an hour into this tackle. You might have to come in at 10 miles an hour, you know what I mean? Cause you got no pads.

• 1:02:40Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:02:41Speaker 02

  You know?

• 1:02:41Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's the argument against pads in football is that these guys, the only reason why they can play the way they are and collide with each other full blast is because they have helmets and pads on.

• 1:02:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:02:51Joe Rogan?

  Which is totally true.

• 1:02:52Speaker 02

  I want thicker helmets and more collisions. Let's go. Come on.

• 1:02:57Joe Rogan?

  It would be a wild game if you had American football and no pads. I mean, that's what they used to do. Way back, they had those little leather head.

• 1:03:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, the little leather helmet. Like, you couldn't pay me to wear one of those. Just get the fuck out of here with that.

• 1:03:08Joe Rogan?

  I wonder how many guys died playing that.

• 1:03:10Speaker 02

  Imagine how many concussions.

• 1:03:13Joe Rogan?

  How many head to head collisions, running, full blast? And then, you know, if you're Samoan, you're like some big giant dude, you're gonna go head to head with guys because you know you're gonna win it.

• 1:03:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, fuck every time, man.

• 1:03:25Joe Rogan?

  So you're just fucking head butting everybody.

• 1:03:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, the army team has a lot of Tongans. There's a Fort Bragg. Tongans are paratroopers as people. I don't know how that works, but they are, man. They all play rugby. A buddy of mine was like, I was like, you know, you how, you know, when, when you start playing rugby, he was like, I was like three, you know? Huge guy. Like, I knew, like, I knew I was doing pretty good at rugby when the Tongans were like, we'd pick, they'd pick teams. And all the Tongans would be like, we want Big John. You can have the rest. And I'd be like, yeah, me and the Tongans will get some, right? We'll fucking crush the people. But like, they start playing with like a coconut.

• 1:04:04Joe Rogan?

  Jesus.

• 1:04:05Speaker 02

  Imagine holding a coconut and just going down ribs on a coconut like, and I'm like, why would you play with a coconut? And he was like, well, there was only one rugby ball on the island and the bigger boys had it. Like, oh, okay, like, yeah. But, um, yeah, I played rugby for a while and I stopped doing MMA to play rugby, but what I realized is rugby is way more injury prone and dangerous. So I kind of went back to jiu jitsu.

• 1:04:30Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah. One on one is definitely, you can control a lot more of what's going on than a bunch of dudes. This episode is brought to you by Noco. You're miles from home. You turn the key, nothing, dead battery. Normally that means finding another car, someone willing to give you a jump and dealing with old jumper cables. But what if you didn't need any of that? Keep a note. Portable jump starter in your glove box and jump start your car yourself. No cables, no second vehicle, no waiting for help. It also works as a power bank and has a built in LED flashlight. No co, the end of jumper cables. Use code ROGEN10 for 10% off. Select jump starters at NO dot CO.

• 1:05:15Joe Rogan?

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• 1:05:57Joe Rogan?

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• 1:06:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:06:14Joe Rogan?

  Colliding into each other.

• 1:06:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, I agree, man.

• 1:06:16Joe Rogan?

  It's a hard fucking sport.

• 1:06:18Speaker 02

  I know rugby's awesome.

• 1:06:19Joe Rogan?

  It is awesome. It's weird how it never took off in America. It's kind of strange, you know, because we love violence. You would imagine that rugby would be something that we would have adopted.

• 1:06:28Speaker 02

  I think the only reason it's not popular is because of the time. Like it's like soccer, once it starts, it doesn't stop. Americans want to go take a piss and get another beer and come back and then they want you to.

• 1:06:41Joe Rogan?

  Have commercials.

• 1:06:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:06:42Joe Rogan?

  That's the big thing about soccer.

• 1:06:43Speaker 02

  And the game never stops.

• 1:06:45Joe Rogan?

  Tough to sell commercials.

• 1:06:46Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:06:46Joe Rogan?

  You can't stop the game.

• 1:06:47Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:06:48Joe Rogan?

  Whereas football, you have a fucking, you have halftime, bro. You got a whole half hour.

• 1:06:52Speaker 02

  Well, you ever see the apps that just show you the plays of football? A whole game's like 12 minutes of actual work. You know what I mean? 10 minutes, you know what I mean?

• 1:07:00Joe Rogan?

  Those motherfuckers are running the entire time.

• 1:07:02Speaker 02

  Eighty minutes, let's go, and it doesn't stop, you know?

• 1:07:05Joe Rogan?

  You have to be in insane shape to play soccer. The cardio is just nuts. You're basically sprinting for the entire game.

• 1:07:12Speaker 02

  I never played soccer, but I don't think I would enjoy it.

• 1:07:15Joe Rogan?

  Well, we went to watch. They have a professional league here in Austin, and these dudes have these fucking quarter horse legs.

• 1:07:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:07:22Joe Rogan?

  They're like thin upper bodies and they fucking gigantic legs because they're just constantly doing plyometrics. They're just constantly sprinting and going side to side, left and right, and fucking crazy cardio. But it's never gonna sell in America if you can't have commercials.

• 1:07:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think that's why rugby's not popular also.

• 1:07:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I mean, that makes sense. Maybe they just changed the rules a little bit.

• 1:07:44Speaker 02

  Right?

• 1:07:44Joe Rogan?

  You know, give us a little break every seven minutes.

• 1:07:47Speaker 02

  Here's what we're saying is rugby starts and stops without a time. That's the same thing we want for, you just said for MMA.

• 1:07:54Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:07:55Speaker 02

  Right?

• 1:07:56Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's the problem with MMA too, right? You can't have a no time limit fight because.

• 1:08:00Speaker 02

  How are you gonna get the next fight at midnight or ten o'clock?

• 1:08:03Joe Rogan?

  Dudes would kind of fight to the death. Like if you get the best of the best today where they're so evenly matched and they're brawling for an hour.

• 1:08:11Speaker 02

  Go four hours, five hours, like.

• 1:08:14Joe Rogan?

  And then it would probably end your career. Like at the end of it, you might not ever be the same again.

• 1:08:18Speaker 02

  You'd be spent. Like you got one of those in you.

• 1:08:21Joe Rogan?

  Right, because there's a lot of guys, like there's a fight and you could point to that fight and say, he was never the same. Like Tony Ferguson, Justin Gagey, a lot of people point to that fight. Justin Gagey battered Tony Ferguson so bad. He was undefeated up until that, or maybe he lost a couple of times, but he was the boogeyman. Tony Ferguson was the scariest dude in the sport. And then one bad beating and he was kind of never the same again. Because one bad beating just changes everything.

• 1:08:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:08:49Joe Rogan?

  You just never really recover.

• 1:08:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, once you lose the mental edge, right, like.

• 1:08:54Joe Rogan?

  There's a little bit of that, but there's also like a bad beating to the brain. Like he got, he got hit so many times in his head. A bad beating to the brain after a certain, I mean, no matter who you are, if you're sparring and if you're fighting, you're getting hit in the head. Period. And so over the course of your career, you're already accumulating a certain amount of abuse. And there's one fight that could break the camel's back.

• 1:09:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:09:19Joe Rogan?

  Again, boxing, I always point to Meldrick Taylor, Julio Cesar Chavez. Like Meldrick Taylor was the fucking man, won the gold medal in the Olympics and Chavez just methodically broke him down. And then stopped him in the last round of their fight, like literally two seconds to go, Richard Steele stops the fight. And from then on, he was never the same. It was just, he took so much of a beating in that fight that he was never the same again.

• 1:09:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think that happens with soldiers too. I've seen a lot of guys who are like, we got mortared or rocketed and then, next deployment guy doesn't want to, you know what I mean?

• 1:09:52Joe Rogan?

  It's a mental thing.

• 1:09:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think there's a, there's a time where everybody says enough's enough, right? Like, whether you want to or not, and then once you reach that point, like, coming back from that point to become that mental champion again is a fucking long road.

• 1:10:08Joe Rogan?

  Is there anything like you as a leader, when you see a guy who's maybe crossed over in that way, is there anything that you would do to try to bring him back? Or is there nothing that can be done?

• 1:10:22Speaker 02

  That's a great question. Uh, define bring him back. Define what's wrong with him.

• 1:10:27Joe Rogan?

  Right. I guess a confidence thing or just being terrified. Like new fear being introduced, you know, a lot of guys think they're indestructible until they're not. And then all of a sudden, now this is a new factor.

• 1:10:42Speaker 02

  Yeah. Uh, I used to teach tandem jumping and bundle jumping in the military. And I don't know if you've ever seen my social media, but like, I'm in the sky flying and there's that huge barrel under me. Uh, I used to teach that. And what would happen is if you had a bad jump, you know, bundle jump.

• 1:11:01Speaker 02

  You would have to cut away and we called it the nightmare, right? And you gotta end the nightmare and this thing starts spinning you out of control. It'll be so many G's that like you'll pass out, the parachute will open later, right? You'll be fine. Uh, but we used to tell guys, right? Like fucking end that nightmare. Makes sense? Now, you're the captain of the ship, so a guy would have to end this nightmare, however he ended the nightmare, right? Uh, and then what would happen is afterwards, we'd review the video and I'd have to show a guy, right? And then we'd leave him in the classroom for a minute and we'd tell him, hey, gather your emotions, whatever you need to do, and then get on the next plane.

• 1:11:42Joe Rogan?

  Get right back on the whore.

• 1:11:43Speaker 02

  Get fucking back on that next plane.

• 1:11:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:46Speaker 02

  You know what I mean? And, uh, guys would do that. You know what I mean? A lot more SEALs needed that time than like unit guys, cause unit guys like, yo, I'll fly this motherfucker up your ass. We ain't gonna have no problems today, son. You know what I mean?

• 1:12:00Joe Rogan?

  What's the difference?

• 1:12:01Speaker 02

  Um, I don't know. I think the difference is that the unit is always more mature than SEALs. It's an older culture. It's older guys, uh, more experienced guys, more methodical guys, more planned out. Um, so like in a lot of times, like, you know, younger guys, normally the SEALs, they'll have their jump numbers, but they're like, their core, their, what makes you, you confidence, dexterity, strength, fucking health, it ain't there yet. And they kind of freak out once in a while. Younger guys. It's a maturity thing, I think, normally happens with the SEALs.

• 1:12:44Speaker 02

  Most unit guys are pretty mature and have been through so much shit by the time they get to the unit that like you're probably unshakable by then, but, um.

• 1:12:52Joe Rogan?

  You see that in fights too, like young undefeated guys who fight like a world champion, who's like in their thirties and that guy breaks them down. And then you see like they don't know what to do when things are going sideways and mentally they fall apart.

• 1:13:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. Uh, that's when the bad decisions will start. You know what I mean? And the reality is, is you gotta snap your fucking self out of that. You gotta fucking put your parachute back on and get the fuck back on that airplane. I had plenty of those jumps. I've cut away more, fuck, I had a cutaway training for D-Day last year. Fucking put my cutaway, you can see how fucking low I am and everything. You know what I mean?

• 1:13:31Speaker 02

  Uh, and I have procedures. I have another parachute. Like, we're all gonna die. Am I gonna let it ruin my day? Kind of thing. Like, let's fucking move on. You know what I mean?

• 1:13:41Joe Rogan?

  But how did you develop that mentality just over time?

• 1:13:44Speaker 02

  I think that comes with what I just said is the core of a person. And I think this what the army is really good at is developing this core, right? In this core, in this core, right? How do I develop your confidence? Well, I don't fucking know. I couldn't even define fucking confidence because I went to Chicago Public Fucking School system, but I could tell you this. If I taught you to rally race car drive and you got pretty fucking good at it. If I taught you jujitsu, eventually you're pretty fucking good at it. I show you skydiving. Eventually, you're pretty fucking good at it, right? Why? It's because every one of these things I showed you, world-class level. And we brought world champions in to show you,

• 1:14:24Speaker 02

  right? Eventually, you're gonna gain confidence. It's the taking your daughter to karate or little kids to jujitsu. They have confidence that other kids don't have, right? That's what you gotta build. So it takes a lot of different skills and getting guys good at a lot of different skills to build that fucking unshakable core. You know what I'm saying?

• 1:14:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Yeah. And it's, it's a matter of when do you introduce them to like extreme adversity? Do you build them up slowly?

• 1:14:56Speaker 02

  Right. Right. And it has to be built slowly, right? And then we used to say this, like,

• 1:15:04Speaker 02

  uh, aircraft training, right? Let's say you got to breach an airplane, right? And you gotta climb a fucking 20-foot ladder because these motherfuckers ain't low to the ground, right? And you're hanging on a ladder and you weigh fucking 280 pounds and you're shit, but you're on these fucking ladders with fucking six other guys who all weigh the same as you or more. You gotta crack the door, get the fuck in this airplane, right? Now, let's just say this is your first time and you crack that door the first time. And as an instructor, I know you're cracking the door. And as soon as you crack that door, I fucking shoot you in the face. You know what I mean?

• 1:15:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:43Speaker 02

  And with the training round, right? How fucking embarrassing, right? And then the reality is, is yo, you just move ruin this motherfucker forever.

• 1:15:51Joe Rogan?

  How do you breach an airplane? Like, what's the, what's a successful protocol for breaching an airplane?

• 1:15:57Speaker 02

  Mechanical or explosive?

• 1:16:02Joe Rogan?

  What do you mean?

• 1:16:04Speaker 02

  Sometimes we open doors, sometimes we blow doors. It depends. So which one you wanna know about?

• 1:16:09Joe Rogan?

  Okay, let's go with mechanical.

• 1:16:11Speaker 02

  Uh, yeah. Most, most doors have a lever on the outside that can be activated. And most doors, there's a certain way they open, right? My team, I was always kinda like a primary door guy. And then there's a certain way doors open, there's latches. So all airplane doors open from the outside.

• 1:16:29Joe Rogan?

  So, but once you breach it though, you're in a tube.

• 1:16:33Speaker 02

  You're in a tube.

• 1:16:33Joe Rogan?

  And everybody knows where the door is.

• 1:16:35Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:16:35Joe Rogan?

  It's a very vulnerable position.

• 1:16:37Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:16:38Joe Rogan?

  So what's the protocol for breaching a door when you're in a tube like that?

• 1:16:43Speaker 02

  So what you have to do is breach as many doors as possible and get as many people in as possible, as quick as possible. And everyone goes to positions, right? You got cover guys, you got runners, you got searchers. There's a lot of shit that needs to go on on these fucking aircrafts. Same with a fucking big cruise liner, right? So, um, everybody's gonna, once the door is open, everyone's gonna flood in and kinda like, go to their places. You know what I'm saying?

• 1:17:10Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm. Right. So you plan it out, you know where you're gonna be.

• 1:17:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:17:17Joe Rogan?

  And then you're still dealing with the chaos of you're in a tube and there's only one way in.

• 1:17:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:17:21Joe Rogan?

  And things are coming at you, no matter what.

• 1:17:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:17:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:17:24Joe Rogan?

  So there's no clean way to do that.

• 1:17:26Speaker 02

  Not even once.

• 1:17:30Joe Rogan?

  Not even once? No, fuck no, man. You know what I mean? What a crazy fucking task.

• 1:17:36Speaker 02

  I know, but the, back to the point is, if a guy cracks that door, any door, let's say it's your first time, I'm showing you like, alright Joe, I'm gonna show you some, you know, close quarter battle, I'm gonna show you how to clear a door. And then just joking around, like you're about to go through a door and I shot you in the fucking forehead. You would mentally never wanna go through that door again, right? So I have to build you up to where, well, the first time you come through the door, well, I just let you come through the door.

• 1:18:04Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:18:05Speaker 02

  And then it builds from there.

• 1:18:06Joe Rogan?

  Got it.

• 1:18:07Speaker 02

  And then there's a point where it's like, whoa, this motherfucker shooting through the crack of the airplane? Wait till I'm in this fucking bitch. I got two pistols on me. This motherfucker's going down. You know what I'm saying?

• 1:18:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:17Speaker 02

  Uh, so as your, as your confidence, your core, that core of a human being, like that core of an operator, right? As that like becomes fucking concrete, a guy's just unshakable. Like let's go, I don't give a fuck what this position, I don't care. Like I don't care if I fucking die. Let's do this, you know?

• 1:18:36Joe Rogan?

  And it's consistent training over and over and over.

• 1:18:39Speaker 02

  And over and over.

• 1:18:40Joe Rogan?

  Do you think that this is what's missing in the police force?

• 1:18:43Speaker 02

  Oh, man, are you kidding me? First off, I work in a lot of police departments. I love police. I support police all the time. It's a fucking thankless job. I'll say that.

• 1:18:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:53Speaker 02

  Uh, but I would say like, think about this, Joe. If you trained police better, right? I work at a lot of police academies. I've helped a lot of police academies. They don't fail people anymore. I show them what I do. I train them to do what I do. They have great success with it. I would say this in a police academy, let's say it's six months long, whatever they do. I don't fucking know. Probably about four months of that is fucking paperwork. And then, you know, you get a little hand to hand, you get a little driving, you get a little shooting.

• 1:19:27Speaker 02

  And then you learn what?

• 1:19:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:30Speaker 02

  But I'm going to tell you this, as a cop, you got the rest of your life to do that paperwork. And when you're in training, right? As soon as you like get your first arrest, your training officer is going to be like, don't write it that way. Hold on, let me see your paperwork. Like this.

• 1:19:44Joe Rogan?

  Uh huh.

• 1:19:46Speaker 02

  The paperwork could be OJT and they could spend them time, right? Training these guys. And if, no, I'd also say this is if police were trained better and truly, uniform officers are probably the only guys like stopping crime as it happens. If we train those guys better, why would we need SWAT teams?

• 1:20:07Joe Rogan?

  Right. You would have SWAT teams through the whole thing.

• 1:20:11Speaker 02

  Everyone's, everyone could be SWAT. And if we got ten and ten of us come together.

• 1:20:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:17Speaker 02

  We're our own SWAT team. We don't, and then we could operate independently. We could operate one or two and like. Uh, I think police don't do the force multiplier thing like each guy is his own fucking bastion of the law, you know what I mean? Like, I, I just think they kinda share injuries, they don't do hand to hand, right? Shooting could be dangerous, right? And then most shooting is, you know, the instructor is God and you are fucking stupid. That's how most training is. It's like basic training and like no one learns well like that either, you know what I mean?

• 1:20:50Joe Rogan?

  Right, right. Yeah, I, I'm always shocked when I see fat cops, like really fat cops. And I'm just like, how, how, your whole life is your body. Like, your whole life is, you have to be able to physically defend yourself. You have weapons, you have, you know, the, the law and the uniform and bulletproof vests and all, but you, your, your physical body is almost useless.

• 1:21:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:21:16Joe Rogan?

  I, I was at a football game the other day and there's this like obese cop, like enormous belly. I was like, this is disgusting. It's ridiculous.

• 1:21:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:21:25Joe Rogan?

  You've let yourself get to this point where I know you can't even run. You can't, you can't, you can't last 30 seconds. All someone have to do is grab a hold of your arm that you would use to take your gun and control that arm, get you to the ground and you're fucked.

• 1:21:38Speaker 02

  Shit, I just baseball collar the back of their fucking collar of their shirt. Where the fuck are you going? You know what I mean?

• 1:21:44Joe Rogan?

  Right, it's crazy.

• 1:21:45Speaker 02

  Um, yeah, look, okay, first off, I think also police should have different jobs like the army. So, okay, if you were 400 pounds, maybe you're the computer guy at the police force or a desk guy or, uh, you know what I mean?

• 1:22:03Joe Rogan?

  Right, right.

• 1:22:04Speaker 02

  I don't think everyone needs to be the fittest human being ever. However, if you're on patrol, get the young six foot kids in there, man. You know what I mean? They can handle themselves. They're young, they're bigger than normal, right? This is why a lot of troopers, state troopers used to have like a six foot, six one, six two height requirement because a six foot two man can generally handle most people.

• 1:22:27Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:22:27Speaker 02

  You know what I mean?

• 1:22:28Joe Rogan?

  Especially a fit one who's trained.

• 1:22:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. So I think the fit guys need to be on the floor. I think I think there's room for everybody, but I think with police is your police officer. Or you're a detective and then that's it. But really, you're always a cop versus like, well, the army, right? Okay, there's drone pilots. There's all these army jobs that kick the infantry kids out the door.

• 1:22:53Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:22:53Speaker 02

  Why don't police kind of organize like that? And that way, like, the guys are going to run people down can run.

• 1:23:00Joe Rogan?

  That's what drives me crazy about this whole defund the police horse shit. Like, are you fucking crazy? You should be funding them more.

• 1:23:06Speaker 02

  Fucking crime is real.

• 1:23:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's real. Evil's real.

• 1:23:09Speaker 02

  Evil's fucking real. Yeah.

• 1:23:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, to pretend it's not. Well, that just means you haven't experienced it.

• 1:23:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, you're living with blinders on.

• 1:23:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, I say, I agree.

• 1:23:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's just bizarre that we expect these people to encounter danger and evil all day long, their whole lives. Like twenty five, thirty years. And, you know, you don't, you don't train them properly. You don't fund them properly, and then they get disrespected by the public.

• 1:23:36Speaker 02

  Oh, that's the worst. Well, the worst, I think the worst is when like the mayor or the police fucking chief. Is like not supportive of all of the fucking guys. And it's like, you think the guys have bad intent? You know what I mean? I get it. There might be bad apples or whatever. Everyone's got ten percent. Say what you want, but like.

• 1:23:55Joe Rogan?

  How about Kamala Harris? When she was running for president, she was all about defund the police.

• 1:23:59Speaker 02

  I don't know how that sells with.

• 1:24:01Joe Rogan?

  It's like two thousand nineteen, two thousand twenty. I mean, it's fucking crazy. It's a crazy thing to say. It really is a crazy thing to say.

• 1:24:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. I mean, if we defunded the police, we'd be Mexico quicker than we thought.

• 1:24:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, right, right.

• 1:24:16Speaker 02

  Cause the cartels will just drive over the border.

• 1:24:18Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:20Joe Rogan?

  That's real.

• 1:24:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:24:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. What do you think about this idea of using special forces guys to fight the cartels?

• 1:24:27Speaker 02

  Uh, first and foremost, like if you were like, yo, we're gonna wipe out a cartel tonight. I'd have been like, I'll load my frags extra careful. Like, let's go, right? But the reality is, is like. Uh, I know all my buddies are like, "Yeah, we'll fuck them up in a night. We'll fucking..." Yo, yo, fucking let's back up a fucking second here. The cartels have fucking men. They own the ground. They have fucking technicals. They have machine guns. They have fucking everything an army has. Right? And they've had decades to train waiting for this.

• 1:25:07Speaker 02

  Number two, and number three, our government's fucking compromised. So if you think they ain't gonna know you're coming, you know what I mean? I think you're fucking high.

• 1:25:16Joe Rogan?

  Jesus Christ, that's a terrible, terrifying thought. The government's so compromised, the cartel's gonna get the word out before.

• 1:25:23Speaker 02

  Well, how are we gonna, how, look, we're not good at being fucking sneaky. We're not the Israelis doing that fucking pager shit. You know what I'm saying?

• 1:25:30Joe Rogan?

  That pager shit was wild.

• 1:25:30Speaker 02

  Yo, that needs to be the model for every fucking thing we do in the future.

• 1:25:34Joe Rogan?

  No matter what you think about the Israelis or what's going on in Gaza, that pager shit was wild.

• 1:25:39Speaker 02

  Which tells me America should go back to making its own fucking cell phones and its own, we shouldn't have our fucking comms made overseas at all in any way, shape or form, in my opinion.

• 1:25:49Joe Rogan?

  No, I've been saying that forever. We should have our own cell phones.

• 1:25:52Speaker 02

  Fuck.

• 1:25:53Joe Rogan?

  And the fact that we're buying so much shit from China.

• 1:25:55Speaker 02

  Fuck.

• 1:25:56Joe Rogan?

  Especially after they banned Huawei because they know that Huawei stuff was compromised and they're having third-party input and be able to spy on people. It's fucking crazy.

• 1:26:05Speaker 02

  Well, this is why we gotta go back to making America like it used to be. We made our own shit. We use our own shit. We wouldn't have to worry about none of this.

• 1:26:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's um, it's a very strange thing what's happening in this country where China's allowed to buy land that's near military bases. They supply cellphone towers. They, they put all these different, they sell us all this different shit and we don't really know. I mean, I don't know how many experts are investigating these fucking cellphone towers.

• 1:26:34Speaker 02

  Fucking zero, I bet. Fucking zero.

• 1:26:36Joe Rogan?

  Mike Baker was on here and he was telling me about how around military bases, like China has installed their equipment in all these military bases, like at Formula One, where we were.

• 1:26:47Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:26:48Joe Rogan?

  My buddy owns the track and they found the- Chinese boxes they had attached to the wifi. So they were just scooping up everybody's data. They called in Homeland Security to have them remove it and investigate it.

• 1:27:01Speaker 02

  Fucking racetrack.

• 1:27:02Joe Rogan?

  A racetrack, but but they knew everybody was gonna be using this public wifi. Probably no VPNs, probably no security, and these people are getting their all their shit siphoned up.

• 1:27:12Speaker 02

  Fuck.

• 1:27:13Joe Rogan?

  They're so sophisticated in how they've infiltrated. It's fucking crazy.

• 1:27:17Speaker 02

  And we just allow it to happen.

• 1:27:19Joe Rogan?

  It's very strange, cuz you can't buy shit in China. If you think you're an American company, you're gonna go over to China and operate with autonomy, you're out of your fucking mind.

• 1:27:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:27:29Joe Rogan?

  You can't buy shit.

• 1:27:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, they don't, they'll never let an American, no, they don't want, eh, Chinese would never buy communication devices from America.

• 1:27:37Joe Rogan?

  No, and they certainly would never let America buy farmland right next to their military bases. They'd be like, fuck you.

• 1:27:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:27:44Joe Rogan?

  Or like, sure, we'll sell it to you. Are you gonna pay more? Oh, boy. We'll take your money.

• 1:27:49Speaker 02

  Fucking.

• 1:27:50Joe Rogan?

  It's weird. It's weird how goofy we are.

• 1:27:53Speaker 02

  I know. And then like, well, I think it's this, Joe. I think people don't realize how fucking dangerous the rest of the world is. And how like people are like plotting against us and it's fucking real out there. The world is a crazy place. I say this like you don't know how fucking safe you got it here. And how fucking great we got it here. You know what I mean? Like, people don't know that cuz they don't never leave here, so they're stuck in their own fucking bad attitude of like their own grind or whatever the fuck they do. And like, look, I'm telling you, the world is fucking evil. People will fucking rape you, kill you. No one gives a fuck. Like, protect yourself all the time.

• 1:28:33Joe Rogan?

  Well, you've been to parts of the world where you've seen this firsthand, and I think it's one of those things where if you don't see it, you don't believe it.

• 1:28:41Speaker 02

  Yeah. I'll tell you, one of the, I think the biggest thing I saw in Iraq.

• 1:28:47Speaker 02

  I think in maybe two thousand and nine-ish, uh.

• 1:28:52Speaker 02

  There was like the most fucking US soldiers ever been in Iraq, right? Like whatever the numbers are, I don't fucking know, right? But uh, when Iraq had the most fucking soldiers it has ever had in Iraq is when Iraq was the safest. Think about it. You know what I mean? All we had to do was flood, put a fucking tank under every fucking overpass in every fucking neighborhood. There's a machine gun and fucking 50 cal Humvee, right? Like who's fucking around? They're everywhere.

• 1:29:22Speaker 02

  And that's the safest Iraq ever was. I'm telling you, we have that here and people don't understand that in general. So if you wanted to fund the police, fuck man, we're fucked. You know what I mean?

• 1:29:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:33Speaker 02

  Like it's, it's a crazy, but.

• 1:29:35Joe Rogan?

  You know, um, do you know Evan, Evan Hafer?

• 1:29:37Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:29:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, Evan was, uh, we were in Elk camp and he was explaining, uh, some of the shit that he saw when he went from Iraq to Afghanistan. And it just how he's like, Afghanistan is so fucked that you can't even comprehend it until you're there.

• 1:29:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:29:53Joe Rogan?

  He goes, once you're there and you see it and you understand it, you, you become so cynical. You almost like this culture is like unfixable. And he's like, most people just don't know that a place like that exists. That's so just down to its core, so fucked. And we was talking about how these guys have these boys that they have as their harem.

• 1:30:15Speaker 02

  The number nine boy.

• 1:30:17Joe Rogan?

  What's that?

• 1:30:18Speaker 02

  It's what the Egyptian special forces called him, the number nine boy. He's the boy that gets fucked.

• 1:30:23Joe Rogan?

  Why number nine?

• 1:30:24Speaker 02

  I don't know. That's what the Egyptian special forces call, but every Afghanistan village had a fucking, what do they call it? The chogi boy or fucking some shit. But basically the 12 year old that gets raped.

• 1:30:36Joe Rogan?

  He was saying these guys have harems and they would parade them down the street to show they have the most boys.

• 1:30:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, this was, this happened to me on my, so I did a solo mission in Afghanistan, the book Kill Bin Laden. You ever hear of it?

• 1:30:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:48Speaker 02

  Uh, I brought a hardback for you.

• 1:30:50Joe Rogan?

  Oh, nice.

• 1:30:50Speaker 02

  I'll sign it for you if you want.

• 1:30:52Joe Rogan?

  Sure.

• 1:30:52Speaker 02

  But it's hard to get a hardback. It's like, it's like, it's got library shit in it. I had to buy it cause like people always ask me to sign it. I didn't write the book, I'm just in it. Um, and, uh, people always ask me for a signature on it, right? So I bought like, I don't know, family or friends, someone, one, one, I bought a, like a lot from a library. They didn't use them no more because they don't sell the hardbacks no more, but.

• 1:31:15Speaker 02

  I went out on a mission alone in Afghanistan. I was gone 10 days. First, I think first successful mission of the war. My opinion, I don't know. I don't know if there's other missions were more successful than mine. But so I went out alone and then I do the recon. I have the footage I need. I have every fucking thing I need to launch a raid. We, I'm alone. We stop. I'm in a fucking jingly truck, right? Like I fucking just, I'm in this truck, I hitchhiked basically from Jalalabad into the Tora Bor mountains. I'm in a jingly truck with this fucking driver.

• 1:31:51Joe Rogan?

  What's a jingly truck?

• 1:31:52Speaker 02

  You know, where they like, it's like a fucking, like a six wheel, like dump truck, but like they hang the chains and bells and they paint it like 17 different bright colors and they, you never seen a jing- yeah, fucking jingly truck. Cause it fucking jingles, man. Yeah.

• 1:32:11Joe Rogan?

  What the fuck is that?

• 1:32:13Speaker 02

  Yeah. So I'm in one of these motherfuckers with this motherfucker, right? He's like a logger. He's, he runs the valley. He's always in the area. But like, I don't know any of this fucking, I can't even talk to the guy. I don't fucking speak shit. You know what I mean? And then like, it's fucking dangerous. I had to go through checkpoints. I had to act like a retard to get through a fucking checkpoint.

• 1:32:36Joe Rogan?

  What did you do?

• 1:32:38Speaker 02

  Man, I was at a fucking checkpoint and the dude was like, there's this fucking, the checkpoints in Afghanistan, they're fucking sketch. You know, they got like one piece of yarn across the road. You better fucking stop or you will be shot. They don't give a fuck about you. And like, so the car in front of us, I think the fucking, like this dude like stole bread from a little kid. You know what I mean? Little kid was eating a piece of bread. He just snatched it out of the fucking car, yelled at the people. I thought he was gonna schwack him because I didn't have anything to give him that he wanted. So I'm in this jingly truck comes next, fucking AK in the chest, la la la la la. Fuck, I don't know what the fuck he's saying, right? But I know if I speak English, I'm dead. So, not an option.

• 1:33:24Speaker 02

  Um, so, uh, he's like yelling at me, right? And then finally I just figured I'm gonna do like volume level 12 and just fucking yell in his face, right? So I just get super close to his face, which he didn't like. And I'm like, nah, nah, nah, nah. And the guy's like, what the fuck? And then like backed up and then motion like, motion like get the fuck through here with AK.

• 1:33:51Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:33:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:33:53Joe Rogan?

  So what, you just on the spot devised that?

• 1:33:56Speaker 02

  Another one I had, I picked up like a dirty towel or blanket off the floor and they took that, right? But what I learned, being out alone, one of the things I learned is, you know, you're like, you watch the movies and like they pull out a wad of cash and they're like, ah wink, get me across the border there, friend. Yo, these motherfuckers that just shoot you in the face and take everything you got. Don't whip that shit out. You're gonna get murdered. They're just gonna take it all. I mean, they'll steal bread from a fucking kid. You think they give a fuck about your life? You know what I mean? And they just fucking throw you on the side of the road and let you rot. Like, they don't even care about the smell. Like, so like, uh, yeah, I had to act like a retard.

• 1:34:34Joe Rogan?

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• 1:35:14Joe Rogan?

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• 1:35:53Joe Rogan?

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• 1:36:37Joe Rogan?

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• 1:36:56Speaker 02

  Through this one, man. They don't give a fuck, man. They don't give a fuck.

• 1:36:58Joe Rogan?

  You just figured that out on the spot?

• 1:37:00Speaker 02

  On the spot, yeah. So, uh, we get, I get in the truck, we do the recon. I like had a, literally I had a cigarette bag, I think it's like Kent or some shit. I don't fucking smoke, but like Kent cigarettes. I had a plastic bag with my fucking sat phone and, um, anyway. I had to get a camera out, get it under my arm, and I kind of filmed the house, right? USIs on, um, and then I had to get the footage back. So we get to the end of the valley. It's fucking dark. You know, there's no way we can get out of the valley before light. So, uh, we stop at this house and the driver's like, you know, motion us in, right? It's the Muslim rite of they can't turn you away, right? So we go to this house, we're in the room, bunch of old fucking grumpy men.

• 1:37:44Speaker 02

  They don't fucking like me at all. Uh, and the driver, and the driver, I guess, goes there and crashes all the time when he's in the valley, right? So this is normal for him to be here. Uh, and then, so in that room, they had like this boy, and they fucking drug him into another room, and you could hear yelling and shit. And I was just like, what the fuck do you do? I have everything I need to pull off the first successful mission.

• 1:38:09Speaker 02

  In Afghanistan for the American government. Okay. Do I save this kid and compromise my mission? Or do I just get the fuck out of here? And pull this motherfucker off? And the reality is I had to look the other way and I didn't like it, but. So, uh, I took my speed, you know, they give you speed. I took my speed, stayed up, everyone went to bed. They fed me dark opium tea. They tried to put me down. That's why I drank the tea anyway, knowing it was spiked. Uh, and then I took my speed to kind of counteract it. And then everyone went to bed. I laid there just wide awake. I laid there wide awake like I fucking shut an eye. These motherfuckers are gonna cut my dick off and stick it in my mouth. Cause that seems like what they like to do.

• 1:38:52Speaker 02

  Uh, and then, uh, finally the middle of the night, I fucking, fucking got my AK. I stuck it in the driver's face. I drug him out to the truck like right before sunup and we fucking left the valley. But like, you know, compromise the mission or save the kid. What do you want?

• 1:39:10Speaker 02

  What's it gonna be, man? And then like, you just see this all over the place.

• 1:39:13Joe Rogan?

  So you, you were like one of the first guys to do these singleton missions.

• 1:39:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:39:18Joe Rogan?

  So when, when they set you off to do something like that, like what's the protocol? Like, how do they, how do they even?

• 1:39:28Speaker 02

  Good luck. You know what I mean? I don't know, like, what do you think?

• 1:39:31Joe Rogan?

  What do they say to you?

• 1:39:32Speaker 02

  Uh, well, back then it was that guy Dalton Fury, right? The guy who wrote Kill Bin Laden was my commander. And, uh, okay, it's a long story. I wrote, I'm writing a book. It's finished. Maybe someone would want to publish it, but it's called The Singleton and it's about my going out alone. Um, but I was like, they see, I was, I was at my base. I was in Assadabad and we were just getting rocketed and mortared every day. It's kind of like mortar bait, whatever. Uh, and then, uh, we had like fucking zero lickies and chewies. No fucking candy, no beef jerky, no fucking pop tarts, no fucking nothing, right?

• 1:40:13Speaker 02

  And we're just sucking it up and like, I gotta eat fucking these Afghan motherfuckers cook us food. And like, I'm eating vegetables. I don't even know what the fuck that vegetable was. I don't even recognize it as a vegetable. You know what I mean? Yeah, I know that's fucking goat because it tastes horrible, but I don't know what the fucking, I don't even know what the fuck they cooked me. You know what I mean? It's like, anyway. So I go to my boss and I'm like, yo, hey. I wanna fucking go to the main base, right? And steal pogey from the fucking chow hall.

• 1:40:42Joe Rogan?

  What's pogey?

• 1:40:42Speaker 02

  Pogey bait is a term for like beef jerky, snacks, candy, cookies, like any kind of like snack food, right? So, and my boss is like, yeah, if you you schedule the airplanes, you make all the coordinations, you can go. I was like, fucking bet, man. I fucking scheduled the helicopter, like motherfuckers, you don't know how resourceful I can be. You know what I mean? So I scheduled everything for the next night and then like I I drove my had a red Toyota truck. I drove my Toyota truck in the back of the Chinook, right? So tight in there, you can't even get out. You gotta just sit there, hope you ain't gotta piss. They fly me to the main base, fucking land, drive in the main base.

• 1:41:23Speaker 02

  Like by this time, like the army's like taking over where like you gotta like fucking salute. I'm fucking the army base in Afghanistan like two weeks ago, like a fucking SAS guy lost a leg in a landmine, you know? But, um, so I go to the base and then the commander sees me and and he's with his sergeant major, another guy. And they're like, this is our fucking guy right here. So like, hey, what are you doing? And I'm like, about to raid the chow hall. Like, what the fuck does it look like I'm doing? You know what I mean? Like, if it's one thing, I'm honest, right? So I was like, yeah, I'm getting pogey for the fucking for our base. Like, what's up? And they're like, hey, we got a mission for you. And I told him, hey, I'll do it, right?

• 1:42:08Speaker 02

  But you just gotta tell my ask my boss if it's all right, because I didn't work for these guys. Um, and they're like, okay, cool. They're in my squadron, but like not my direct boss, right? So they call my boss, my boss says, fine. And like, they sit me in this room and they're like, hey, we want you to go out alone. And I'm like, okay. And they're like, explain everything to me. We want you to go out alone. Like, do you have any questions? And I was like, my my only question was, and it wasn't a question. I looked the commander in the eye and I said, tell me you're gonna cover my ass if something goes wrong. And he was like, uh. Oh yeah, we'll cover you. Like yo, you could have gave a fucking better man up with that answer. You know what I mean? Like, you know what I mean? He gives this like weak

• 1:42:50Speaker 02

  answer and I'm just thinking, well, fuck, man. You know what I mean? No.

• 1:42:54Joe Rogan?

  So what were they telling you they wanted you to do?

• 1:42:56Speaker 02

  Go out alone, USIs on, get footage of this guy at his house. So we could launch, right? Cause the generals back then weren't in line with Bush's dead or alive and they were, I believe the Pentagon was a bigger hindrance in the beginning of war than they were fucking, than they were worth. Uh, but, um.

• 1:43:18Joe Rogan?

  How so?

• 1:43:20Speaker 02

  Well, uh, the general at the time that was in charge of us, our task force, right? And then we're talking about tier one, like the guy in charge then had like two rules. Number one, you can leave the wire if you get USIs on a target. Okay?

• 1:43:38Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:43:39Speaker 02

  And number two, no one leaves the wire. Well, how the fuck are we going to do number one without, if we can't leave? Figure it out. So the commander, I was, because I was.

• 1:43:52Joe Rogan?

  When you, when you say leave the wire, what do you mean exactly?

• 1:43:55Speaker 02

  Like go out hunting for bad guys. Leave your base. You know what I'm saying? Go out in combat.

• 1:44:00Joe Rogan?

  But you can't leave your base.

• 1:44:01Speaker 02

  But you can leave the base. But you gotta get these eyes on to launch a target. So you gotta get your recon guys out there doing reconnaissance because we need these reconnaissance and USIs on to hit these targets. Okay. We want to launch reconnaissance. Yeah, no one leaves the wire. That's kind of how it worked, man. Right? So, uh, the reason they used me is according to the army, the army at every level is great at accountability. A hundred percent. We need to know where everyone is at all times. Right? So when I flew to the other base, I was in transit, right? So they left me in transit for a week.

• 1:44:43Speaker 02

  So instead of saying I left the wire, I was just in transit because I was in transit anyway to go get Pop Tarts.

• 1:44:54Speaker 02

  So they lied to everybody, left me, my staff, and I didn't know this at the time, I'm like, like, this could have mattered less to me, I learned later, you know, but, uh, they paperwork nutshell the general and sent out reconnaissance, and that was me.

• 1:45:10Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:45:11Speaker 02

  And then they came back with the eyes on, and the general agreed to launch the mission, and it was a success, and no one asked, "How the fuck did someone leave the wire?" Because no one cared, because we were successful, you know what I mean?

• 1:45:25Joe Rogan?

  Wow. So what are you thinking when you're out there doing this? Like, what is going through your head when you agree to do this?

• 1:45:33Speaker 02

  Fuck. Figure it the fuck out. I don't fucking know, I'm not trying to have anything in my head right now.

• 1:45:39Joe Rogan?

  But that's what's crazy, is like, they just let you figure it out.

• 1:45:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:45:43Joe Rogan?

  So you have to feel very vulnerable.

• 1:45:46Speaker 02

  Um, I don't know. I wouldn't say vulnerable, Joe, but, uh, I do think this is like, there's guys that like, fucking make it happen. You probably got guys like this. Any task you give a guy, he's just like, "Wait, you're done with that already?" Like...

• 1:46:00Joe Rogan?

  Some people can just make shit happen.

• 1:46:02Speaker 02

  And then, I'm one of those guys, that's like, my, one of my better qualities, make it happen, so like, fucking go make it happen, motherfucker.

• 1:46:11Joe Rogan?

  Go act like a retard when you get pulled over.

• 1:46:12Speaker 02

  Hey, man, do what you gotta do, baby, like fucking survival of the fittest.

• 1:46:17Joe Rogan?

  So, the problem is, once you do one of these, now you're the guy that can go do these things.

• 1:46:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I did hundreds in Iraq, and fucking loved it.

• 1:46:25Joe Rogan?

  Jesus Christ.

• 1:46:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:46:27Joe Rogan?

  You loved it?

• 1:46:28Speaker 02

  Loved it. Loved being alone, man.

• 1:46:31Joe Rogan?

  I love it.

• 1:46:31Speaker 02

  Fuck that. Yo, you, you, okay, think about this, Joe, and, and you do jiu-jitsu and you fight, right? You want to depend on yourself, or you want to depend on yourself and people you don't know what the fuck they're made of? Who the fuck are you gonna trust?

• 1:46:49Joe Rogan?

  You're gonna trust yourself.

• 1:46:49Speaker 02

  Right, so, uh, it wasn't really a big stretch for me to be alone, you know what I'm saying?

• 1:46:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I do, but it's still a very unusual mindset.

• 1:46:57Speaker 02

  Um, yeah, maybe, I don't know, and then my, my other mindset is like, no matter where I am, no matter what I do, everyone in a 25-yard radius is gonna fucking die.

• 1:47:10Speaker 02

  Just so I can make it home. And if I had to kill everyone in the whole village, goddamn right, everyone in that fucking village would be dead for me to come home. So, uh, I just figured, yo, fucking be ready to fight at all times. I learned a hundred to one lessons learned, leadership lessons, a hundred to one being alone. Versus being a pack of thirty motherfuckers.

• 1:47:32Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:47:33Speaker 02

  Like, yo, let us come ram this down your fucking throat and we'll call it Tuesday. You know what I mean? Where when I was alone, like, you gotta make better decisions. You're a fucking coyote, you're a ghost, you know, you gotta make ghost decisions. The fucking, you know, the bravado, like, we're gonna kill everybody, the fuck we are, we're not gonna fire a shot. Why? Because like, you, you fire one shot as a singleton, you better be ready to kill everybody. Because gunshots is a fucking dinner bell for psychos, you know what I mean? So, are you ready? You know what I mean? And the reality is, is like, I had to think of other shit, do other shit, had to act like a retard, you know? And then I had to get along with people.

• 1:48:11Speaker 02

  I had to, had to do so much shit that is out of like, even the commando norm as a singleton, you know?

• 1:48:19Joe Rogan?

  And there's no one that can really teach you this.

• 1:48:22Speaker 02

  Fuck, I mean, no.

• 1:48:25Joe Rogan?

  Right, like you can teach a guy how to breach an airplane.

• 1:48:29Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:48:29Joe Rogan?

  How the fuck are you gonna teach a guy to act like a retard if you get pulled over? How are you gonna teach a guy to be a singleton and do a hundred percent of these missions?

• 1:48:36Speaker 02

  Well, we used to tell guys, and I used to tell my guys all the time, and this is a unit thing, but like, I could train a monkey to shoot. I'm training you to think. I don't care about the shooting, because if you're thinking right, the shooting will be easy. You know what I'm saying?

• 1:48:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:51Speaker 02

  Um, but yeah, man, uh, I, I'll tell you, I thought about writing a leadership book, calling it The Singleton, and just kinda the lessons I learned, you know? Like, so few guys have done that, you know? Like, I, I see all these like, you know, I don't know, I don't look at the internet, I don't watch the news, uh, I don't do any of that, I don't do social media. I have it, I don't fucking look at it, I don't have it on my phone, it's not worth my sanity. Um, so I'm like a fucking time capsule for fucking the 2000s, you know what I mean? And like, uh, I never understood some of these other like veteran stories. You know, I never, I never kinda, uh, like the lone survivor. I never understood the full story because I went out alone all the time.

• 1:49:34Speaker 02

  That shit didn't happen to me, motherfucking seven Taliban on my ass. You wanna see seven fucking bodies super quick? You know what I'm saying? Bring them boys up here, you know? So I never really fucking understood some of these other stories. Because I had such a different experience. I can't fathom if I was with five, you know? The times I was with five guys, you know how many people? I mean, I was with three guys. You know how many people we killed in the Battle of Tora Bora? Fucking hundreds. I just stopped counting on my first day, like. So having said that, like, I don't understand some of these stories because I had the experience I had. You know what I'm saying?

• 1:50:11Joe Rogan?

  It's a very unusual experience. So like, how many guys were singletons?

• 1:50:15Speaker 02

  Fuck, I don't know any.

• 1:50:16Joe Rogan?

  You don't know any?

• 1:50:18Speaker 02

  I mean, a couple of my buddies, but like, not like me.

• 1:50:21Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:50:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, and then once I did it, it was kind of my lot in life.

• 1:50:25Joe Rogan?

  How many pages is this book that you wrote?

• 1:50:27Speaker 02

  Uh, I don't know, like fucking 20 chapters? I wrote a big book.

• 1:50:31Joe Rogan?

  It seems like it'd have to be like 500 fucking pages.

• 1:50:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:50:35Joe Rogan?

  So I can't wait to read that book.

• 1:50:36Speaker 02

  Hey, shameless plug, if you know anybody who buys books.

• 1:50:39Joe Rogan?

  Someone needs to buy that book, 100%. Yeah, we'll get that book sold.

• 1:50:42Speaker 02

  All right.

• 1:50:43Joe Rogan?

  We'll get that book sold, 100%.

• 1:50:45Speaker 02

  So that leads me-

• 1:50:46Joe Rogan?

  I need to read that book right now.

• 1:50:47Speaker 02

  I'll give it to you. I'll give it, I'll text it to you.

• 1:50:50Joe Rogan?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:50:51Speaker 02

  I'll text it to you today, for real. I'll text it to you. I'm done with it.

• 1:50:54Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:50:55Speaker 02

  I think it's as good as I could get it. And I'm just a reg, I'm in a Chicago public school system. Fuck, I didn't even take a book home because if the school loses the books, they can't teach. So it was like, half, half my class was in the book and the other half was homework. And you left the books in class. So like, I didn't have homework, you know what I mean?

• 1:51:12Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's probably better because you're gonna get it, like, yeah, from you.

• 1:51:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:51:17Joe Rogan?

  With no gloss.

• 1:51:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:51:19Joe Rogan?

  No bullshit.

• 1:51:20Speaker 02

  But, which leads me to Iraq where I did hundreds of solo missions. I was a taxi driver. I had like- I don't know, fucking thirty, fifty vehicles in Iraq.

• 1:51:30Joe Rogan?

  So, once they've realized you can do this.

• 1:51:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:51:33Joe Rogan?

  Like, oh, call McPhee.

• 1:51:34Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, no, it's just kind of my thing. Like, you don't have to call me and just tell me what you need.

• 1:51:39Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:51:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, my bosses knew how to use me like that.

• 1:51:42Joe Rogan?

  So, you started enjoying the craziness of it?

• 1:51:46Speaker 02

  I loved being alone.

• 1:51:47Joe Rogan?

  Why did you love it so much?

• 1:51:51Speaker 02

  I don't know. I hate to say this, but like, guys like me are generally fucking assholes. Like, you've met a few guys like me and they're like, "Yeah, I was afraid someone would get away." Like, shut the fuck up, man. God damn it. You know what I mean? Like, so, not really a fan of a lot of like, alpha males. They can be dicks at times. So, like, uh, yeah, it kind of set me down my, down my path, is I just stayed away from the dicks and did my own thing. You know what I mean?

• 1:52:20Joe Rogan?

  Right. So, you just had, you had your mission and you enjoyed the fact that it was all up to you.

• 1:52:26Speaker 02

  And I didn't have to fuck with no one else. It's on my timeline, fucking, and I will make this happen. Like, I will make shit happen that other people can't. I don't know how, I don't know why, but I just will.

• 1:52:37Joe Rogan?

  That is such a wild experience. Like, your experience in war must be so different than everybody else's just because of that.

• 1:52:44Speaker 02

  Yeah. So, having said that, we're talking about Iraq, I brought some show and tell items.

• 1:52:50Joe Rogan?

  What'd you bring?

• 1:52:51Speaker 02

  I brought something I have never fucking shown before.

• 1:52:55Joe Rogan?

  What do you got?

• 1:52:56Speaker 02

  And I believe it's fucking evil. You wanna see it?

• 1:52:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I do. What is it?

• 1:53:01Speaker 02

  I got, I gotta get it out of my box.

• 1:53:03Joe Rogan?

  Oh, you got a box?

• 1:53:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, I brought a box.

• 1:53:08Joe Rogan?

  I'm kind of scared.

• 1:53:13Joe Rogan?

  What's that?

• 1:53:16Speaker 02

  Hey, can you Google Saddam Hussein Mauser?

• 1:53:21Joe Rogan?

  This is his hat?

• 1:53:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:53:22Joe Rogan?

  Jesus.

• 1:53:23Speaker 02

  It's the one where he shoots the Mauser in the air at the fucking parade grounds.

• 1:53:31Speaker 02

  I was given that to buy his tailor.

• 1:53:35Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:53:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, that one. The liner fell out. The liner's in here, look. It's, uh, you can see what kind of hat it is. The glue fell out of the liner, but look.

• 1:53:44Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:53:47Joe Rogan?

  That's fucking crazy.

• 1:53:48Speaker 02

  I rolled up his tailor.

• 1:53:52Speaker 02

  And all his butlers. Anybody who touched his ass fed him or touched his dick. I fucking rolled them motherfuckers up.

• 1:54:02Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:54:04Speaker 02

  Saddam was captured nine days after I left. I had to leave for Christmas.

• 1:54:09Joe Rogan?

  This is crazy. This was on his head, now it's here.

• 1:54:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

• 1:54:15Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:54:16Speaker 02

  Yeah. But, uh, it's a Piccadilly fox fur hat. Uh, I also have a sweater. I took a, I had all his clothes, like. Man, fuck, I had everything that guy had. Uh, but, uh. Yeah, his tailor. Okay, so Saddam's inner circle, right? When, when, when I was working Saddam, we were working a Saddam piece, right? Some fucking legendary hits that no one's ever fucking talked about, like.

• 1:54:43Speaker 02

  We did the cleverest shit fucking during Saddam. And I will tell you this, is I learned on my fucking Singleton mission at Afghanistan, the first one. We need to be a lot fucking smarter if we want to crush these motherfuckers. And I'm not talking like, we captured two bad guys. I'm talking, we go in, kill everyone, needs to be killed, capture everyone that needs to be captured. And fucking do this right, right? So, um, yeah, with the Saddam piece, right? Um, his tailor and his butlers and Saddam's inner circle was all Christians.

• 1:55:16Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 1:55:17Speaker 02

  Fucking every one of them was a Christian. And Saddam believed that Christians, if they martyr themselves, go to hell. Muslims martyr themselves, you go to heaven.

• 1:55:29Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:55:29Speaker 02

  So he surrounded himself with fucking Christians.

• 1:55:32Joe Rogan?

  Ah.

• 1:55:33Speaker 02

  So his tailor, his butlers, his Jawalas, all those guys. They're fucking washing his ass, feeding this motherfucker. We're all Christians. And it's why Christians flourished in Iraq, which they're, you know, like, I, I'd like to, I'd hope all these guys are still alive. But the reality is, is like ISIS probably fucking got rid of them after Saddam was gone, you know?

• 1:55:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:55Speaker 02

  ISIS killed so many fucking Christians, you know what I'm saying?

• 1:55:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:58Speaker 02

  Uh, but they were all Christians. And, uh, so his, uh.

• 1:56:04Speaker 02

  I uh, it started with um, the ex ambassador, excuse me, to the US. And then I met the tailor and started talking to the tailor. And then one day he brought this hat and he brought some clothes. And I was like, what was this? And he was like, you know, he told me this is the one where he shot the Mauser. Uh, and he had some clothes. I grabbed a sweater. Uh, I wear this sweater on Christmas Eve. And then, hey, when I was, when I was fatter, it's like, it's like a fucking halter top. My belly's, my belly fat's hanging out, you know, my family's like, I don't know, I think I'm nuts. But uh, I normally wear that sweater on Christmas. Uh, I forgot to bring it or I brought it, but.

• 1:56:44Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:56:45Speaker 02

  Um, yeah, now that I lost weight, I think I'm actually Saddam's size. You know what I'm saying? It's spooky, you know what I'm saying? I end up being the same size. I could have wore all those clothes, you know what I mean?

• 1:56:54Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:56:55Speaker 02

  But uh, yeah, they were Christians, right? And um, we rolled up the tailor. Uh, the tailor gave up a butler. Like I was, me and another guy were at the tailor's house. Right? And we were gonna snatch this guy, right? This butler. And the butler is the guy who used to wash Saddam. Like, he bathed Saddam every fucking day.

• 1:57:17Joe Rogan?

  So Saddam had someone bathe him?

• 1:57:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:57:19Joe Rogan?

  He didn't bathe himself?

• 1:57:20Speaker 02

  No. Crazy, right?

• 1:57:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, weird.

• 1:57:23Speaker 02

  But he had a lot of, a lot of, but they were all Christians. And they were all, honestly, they were all fucking nice people, to be fair. Like, all the Christians were great people. Um, anyway, uh, yeah, so uh, I'm in the house with another guy and the guy's early. So, we fucking shoot up on the roof. The guy comes. I call my guys. They're, they're not really in place yet. So, uh, he comes, uh, he leaves. He only stays a minute and he's gone. You know what I mean? And these, I think all these inner circle Saddam folks know they were valuable to us. And, and like, they realized they were gonna get snatched at some time. So he was like, he was out, right? Um, I called my guys, right? And then uh, literally, my guys

• 1:58:08Speaker 02

  were like two blocks away. As he was leaving, he ran into their Humvee. He ran into my guys. And they're like, hey, this guy just ran into us in like this vehicle. I'm like, that's the dude.

• 1:58:21Joe Rogan?

  He got in an accident with him?

• 1:58:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, he ran into our guys in a Humvee. He was trying to drive away and like crashed into like the guys that were gonna snatch him.

• 1:58:31Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:58:32Speaker 02

  Yeah. I'll tell you another Saddam story. This is, this is my, one of my favorites.

• 1:58:37Speaker 02

  Uh, Saddam had like regular pieces of ass. And like his favorite piece of ass was this butter face lady. I don't know what she did for him, but she wasn't a looker, you know what I mean? So like, look and feel are different things. Saddam knew what felt right to him, obviously. Um, and she was married and we wanted to get to her. I mean, maybe Saddam's favorite sex partner wouldn't know where he is, right?

• 1:59:09Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:59:10Speaker 02

  Um, so we have the tailor, the tailor knows who he is. So we have the tailor kind of invite him to the tailor stop shop. This tailor had a store in downtown Baghdad. So he comes in the store and uh,

• 1:59:27Speaker 02

  I told my guys if he doesn't come out quick to, uh, I had a couple, um, I don't know what they're called now. Mohawks, I think is what they call the Iraqi counter terror guys. Well, before they were even established, like the guys were with us, you know? So we had a couple of those guys. Um, and uh, I have them start fighting in front of the store, right? So literally everyone piles on in the street to see these guys fighting, right? Like everyone piles out of all the shops, stores, and everyone's watching these two guys fight. Literally the guy we're looking for like walks up to see the fight and his back is to the van door of the guys that are gonna snatch him.

• 2:00:06Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:00:06Speaker 02

  So I call them like, yo, you see that tall guy? That's our guy fucking snatch him and no shit, van door, van door fucking open.

• 2:00:15Speaker 02

  Nobody even knew where the fucking guy went. The tailor later was like, where did he go? Did you take, who took him? Where did this guy go? Where is this man at? You know what I mean? Like, no one even seen him get snatched, right?

• 2:00:28Joe Rogan?

  That's such a clever idea.

• 2:00:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:00:30Joe Rogan?

  Have two guys fight in front.

• 2:00:32Speaker 02

  And then later, my boss was like, who were those guys fighting? I was like, it's our boys. And he was like, wait, did you do that? And I was like, I didn't want to be there for like six hours. Like, you know what I mean? Like, how do we speed this up? We got shit to do today. Like, you know what I mean? That's my efficiency is my thing, like.

• 2:00:49Joe Rogan?

  That's genius.

• 2:00:50Speaker 02

  Yeah. That's one of the, and we did so much. Hey, all right, I'll tell you another one. My first Saddam hit, uh, I worked, uh, a lot of intel side for Saddam. Me and a couple other guys. So we worked somewhere not with our squadron and we worked with another government agency. Makes sense?

• 2:01:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:01:12Speaker 02

  So we get the call, the squadron's doing a hit, there's a Saddam sighting, right? So this is like the beginning, like 2003 Iraq. We were fucking Ken blocking it with fucking maps. Like hit the third traffic circle, go out on the nine o'clock. Like, literally I get us to fucking Ken blocking, fucking navigating through a fucking shitty Baghdad fucking street map. I get us to the fucking target, right? Uh, Humvees are already there, the rest of the guys are already there. Rangers got the blocking positions all set up. So we get there, we raid the house, right? We get all these guys and then finally, there was like no fucking shit, Joe. There was like, I don't know, 15 motherfuckers. It was like a Saddam lookalike fucking contest.

• 2:01:57Speaker 02

  They all had the mustache, there's like short fat Sadams, there's like tall skinny Sadams.

• 2:02:02Joe Rogan?

  So you had body doubles.

• 2:02:04Speaker 02

  Well, I don't know if it was body doubles.

• 2:02:05Joe Rogan?

  It just all looked like.

• 2:02:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, because like the Saddam look was popular, the mustache. I mean, not that they all looked the same, but they kind of all looked the same, you know? From my perspective at the time, right? So like, it was like, well, no wonder someone called this in. It's fucking like, they all look like Saddam, you know what I mean? Uh, and then on the outside, like.

• 2:02:27Speaker 02

  Fuck, man. The Rangers shot up these vehicles at the blocking position. I have my squad, my, my sergeant major was like, hey, go fucking clean up the bodies. And I'm like, why the fuck am I on brains detail? I didn't fucking shoot nobody today. And he's like, you're the only one with a regular pickup truck that could haul the bodies. And I'm like, fucker already thought it through. This is why this guy's the boss. You know what I mean? Like, and then, uh, I lesson learned that day is, you know, like in Iraq, you just drink water out of bottles and then throw them in your truck. Man, we were loading bodies in. There's fucking a hundred water bottles in the back of the bed. Someone just come by the bed of the truck and throw an empty water bottle

• 2:03:08Speaker 02

  in like at the house or whatever. Right? And like, I'm throwing bodies and fucking shit in the back of my truck and there's like bloody water bottles squirting everywhere. It's a fucking mess, man. So, uh, I learned that day, like, my vehicles are always clean. Always fucking clean. From that day on, but like, it's a fucking mess. And then, man, they shot up this fucking, this old man, this old lady, like they ran the checkpoint. They were about, they were about to hit the Humvee with the Rangers. So the kid shot at the driver, but like the kids didn't, the Rangers back then didn't know as much as Rangers know now. You know what I'm saying? Uh, and the kid like, he shot the warning shots at the driver, but he hit the brakes.

• 2:03:55Speaker 02

  And the fucking vehicle will never stop if you shoot the brakes. If, I don't know if you know that, but, uh, and it fucking hit the Humvee at like fucking 40 miles an hour, broke the transmission and I had to clean up the bodies. Uh, had to set up an HLZ, take them later to the HLZ, you know what I mean? And then it was like my, is my first Saddam raid in Iraq and it was my first, uh, experience in Iraq with the Rangers. And like that day, I was fucking fed up with them, you know, like there's some young fucking 18 year old kid medic in the back of the truck. And like, I'm like, hey, fucking give these people morphine. He's like, I'm not supposed to give the enemy morphine sergeant. You know what I mean? I'm like, Yo, does anyone look like a fucking enemy to you here?

• 2:04:40Speaker 02

  Anyone fighting you in the back of the truck? Then there is no fucking enemies here, bud. Fucking give these people some drugs. So like, at least we ain't gotta fucking hear him moan and shit. You know what I mean? And like the kid, like I had to force him to like fucking be humane. You know what I mean? Cause he was just trying to follow orders. Later, later they'd be so much better, right? But, uh, beginning of the war, like my first, that was my first Saddam hit. You know what I mean? And I was just thinking, fucking, this is gonna be awesome. And that kid was shooting down the street with the 50 cal. Like, imagine just a fucking city street in Austin, right? And you're parked in the middle of the road and you just shoot with a 50 cal off the top of a Humvee. You know, like eight feet off the ground. Dude, those tracer rounds would skip down the road.

• 2:05:23Speaker 02

  It was breaking glass, fucking going through cars, fucking, you know, 500 yards down the road. Like people scattered, like, it's amazing. You know, 50 cal is amazing. You know what I mean? And then I had to fucking pick up guts, but.

• 2:05:39Joe Rogan?

  Well, this is the fucked up thing about it is like you, you went through all this chaos. You're uniquely qualified for chaos for some strange reason.

• 2:05:49Speaker 02

  Love chaos is my jam, man. As soon as this gets confusing, yo, I got this. You know what I mean?

• 2:05:54Joe Rogan?

  But why is that?

• 2:05:55Speaker 02

  I don't fucking know. Seems to be what I do best. Yeah, I think so.

• 2:05:59Joe Rogan?

  Is that something that like you accumulated this mindset over time? Or did you just always have it?

• 2:06:07Speaker 02

  I think it was beaten to me.

• 2:06:09Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 2:06:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, like, think about it. When I was a kid, the house was chaotic.

• 2:06:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:06:14Speaker 02

  You know what I mean? You learn, you learn the chaos.

• 2:06:17Joe Rogan?

  Right. And then it just, you're designed for that. Break glass in case of war.

• 2:06:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. I guess so. I don't know. I think I'm a normal guy, but like people tell me I'm not. Yeah.

• 2:06:30Joe Rogan?

  I mean, I understand you. I understand you. Uh, it's not normal, but I understand you.

• 2:06:36Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, like, look, I just feel like, okay, we're all gonna die. I'm not gonna let it ruin my day. I've been through bad shit. I'm not the fucking victim. I've done bad shit. I'm not the fucking bad guy. You know what I'm saying? Like. Uh, and then having said that, it's like, I don't know, man. I, I think it affects everybody differently, but I think, you know, uh, before I retired, I was burned out. I didn't know I was burned out. I was an asshole every day. Fucking, I was, you know, you, I mean, I just fucking guys would come into my office. What do you want? Yeah, too slow. Get the fuck out. When you know what you want, come back. And I'd be like, ah, okay, sorry, major.

• 2:07:15Joe Rogan?

  Well, you were operating at ten.

• 2:07:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, always.

• 2:07:17Joe Rogan?

  Always.

• 2:07:18Speaker 02

  Yeah. And then I learned, man, like, I was having a lot. I fucking hated my life. I was miserable. I hated being a sergeant major. I hated being army management is what I called it. I'm not a leader. I'm not a follower. I'm not a soldier. I'm fucking army management. And that shit is fucking dry, fucking toast. You know what I'm saying? Uh, and I just got out of fucking Baghdad in oh six, fucking killing people. Like oh six was a great year, you know? Um, and then I gotta sit on the fucking staff and do this shit. Like, it's just fucking killing me, Joe. And then, so like, I wasn't a very good sergeant major. So I realized one day, like, man, I think I used to be funny. Like, you know, like when I was a kid, like, I'd catch that beating. If I could say that one fucking smart ass comment to you,

• 2:08:02Speaker 02

  I might get beat more, but I fucking said my piece. You know what I mean? Even as a little kid, I'll take the beating to fucking call you an asshole. Uh, so like, uh, I kinda, uh, maybe had that mindset going into it or something. You know what I mean?

• 2:08:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:08:17Speaker 02

  Like, um, but, uh, yeah, man, I, I just think like, I think a lot of it just goes back to my childhood and being able to manage the chaos. One minute we're fighting, the next minute, you know, someone's at the front door, like, go answer.

• 2:08:31Joe Rogan?

  The crazy thing about it is that like, if you are, you're running, you're running any branch of the military and you're asking a lot of people to find someone like you, that you can find someone who doesn't just accept this, but thrives on it. That's like, try recreating that in a lab.

• 2:08:52Speaker 02

  Fuck.

• 2:08:53Joe Rogan?

  You know what I'm saying? How do you, how do you make that? You can't.

• 2:08:56Speaker 02

  I don't know. I've only seen like, I don't know, in my experience of all the guys I know and all the combat I've seen, I'd say there's like, just, I mean, you know, we're not, we're not the common guys. You know what I mean? Maybe a dozen in my life.

• 2:09:11Joe Rogan?

  You guys on a group chat?

• 2:09:13Speaker 02

  Fuck, no. Fuck, no. I don't talk to nobody. You know what I mean? You'll never know who they are. They ain't fucking talking to you, me, fucking nobody. You know what I mean? And some, you know, of the, you know, I maybe know a dozen of those guys, uh, eight probably still work for the dark side of the government as old men, wherever that is.

• 2:09:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:09:31Speaker 02

  Uh, and the other guys are like raising families and don't want you fucking with them.

• 2:09:36Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:09:37Speaker 02

  You know what I mean? They don't do shit like this.

• 2:09:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:09:40Speaker 02

  Guys like me don't do shit like this.

• 2:09:41Joe Rogan?

  But the thing about it is if you didn't talk about it, people wouldn't know.

• 2:09:46Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:09:46Joe Rogan?

  Like, I think it's great that you talk about it. I think it's important. I think people need to, I mean, people need to, you know, we're trying to like fill in an understanding of the world. And until you've talked to someone who's experienced a part of the world in a way, in a way that no one else has, you don't know that that's a thing.

• 2:10:07Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:10:07Joe Rogan?

  Like, the fact that you can come and talk about this is a very good thing for everybody.

• 2:10:12Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 2:10:12Joe Rogan?

  Cause people will see like, okay, like this is, this is super complicated. Like this, the whole thing was super complicated. And to have a guy that could talk about navigating probably the most complicated aspect of this super complicated thing, and to actually thrive in it is very strange.

• 2:10:34Speaker 02

  Thank you. I still think I'm normal, Joe. I think I'm a regular guy.

• 2:10:38Joe Rogan?

  You're definitely not normal, but I, but like I said, I understand you.

• 2:10:41Speaker 02

  No, thanks, man.

• 2:10:42Joe Rogan?

  I get it.

• 2:10:42Speaker 02

  But, uh, yeah, man. And look, I got some more items. You wanna see something else I've never showed off? So.

• 2:10:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:10:48Speaker 02

  Uh, I talk about stories in some of my videos about being a taxi driver. I also, uh, had another vehicle. That was a, an Uday Kuse, secret police vehicle. So when I drive this vehicle downtown, like, the fucking sea would part. The road could be packed and I'd drive in my vehicle and people just move.

• 2:11:07Joe Rogan?

  What kind of vehicle was it?

• 2:11:08Speaker 02

  It was like a Maxima, a Nissan Maxima, but it's what the Uday secret police drove. You know what I'm saying? And then they carried these and I'll show you, check this out.

• 2:11:23Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:11:25Speaker 02

  So, the, the lion is the Babylon lion and that's the, the symbol of the Republican Guard. But I used to carry that as a taxi driver. And when I get out of the taxi, people would see that fucking gun and just fucking walk away.

• 2:11:42Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:11:44Speaker 02

  And that's a Republican, that's what the Republican Guard rock, those silver guns. I ca- I say it's a pearl handle, but it's like plastic.

• 2:11:51Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's plastic.

• 2:11:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's nothing fancy about it.

• 2:11:54Joe Rogan?

  But, specific to them?

• 2:11:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:11:57Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:12:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, I had a guy make it for me.

• 2:12:03Joe Rogan?

  Oh, Elk River Tool Handle.

• 2:12:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:12:06Joe Rogan?

  Bozeman, Montana.

• 2:12:07Speaker 02

  There's only so many guys that'll do AKs. You know, like, you know what I mean? You, you wanna, uh, you want like a silver AK? What are you, the cartel? No, get the fuck out of here. You're not serious about guns. You know how many fucking nos I had to collect up there? Like, anyway. But, uh, that's my Republican Guard, that's my taxi driver gun.

• 2:12:26Joe Rogan?

  So you had that made specifically because you knew that they carried that?

• 2:12:31Speaker 02

  No, I captured that on the battlefield and carried it in Iraq.

• 2:12:35Joe Rogan?

  So that is one, but why does it say Bozeman, Montana?

• 2:12:38Speaker 02

  Cause well, cause, okay, so if you bring one home, you get fired.

• 2:12:42Joe Rogan?

  Ah.

• 2:12:43Speaker 02

  But what I did, what I did is I took the handguard and the pistol grip. And then I had a guy make a copy of what I had.

• 2:12:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:12:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:12:56Joe Rogan?

  Ah, okay.

• 2:12:56Speaker 02

  So it's, it's, I mean, it's legal and everything, but.

• 2:12:59Joe Rogan?

  So the handguard and the pistol grip is from the original gun?

• 2:13:01Speaker 02

  Right, but that's exactly what the original gun looked like. Cause I didn't, look, when you're in the depot, like, you wanna get fired for bringing back an AK?

• 2:13:10Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:13:11Speaker 02

  Fucking, you know what I mean? Like, dumb, like, you know what I mean? Like, it's not worth the risk, right? But like, it's like, hey, can I bring this handguard back? Like, the fuck you want that garbage for? That's a yes, you know what I mean?

• 2:13:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:13:24Speaker 02

  And then it took me a while to get, but yeah, that guy built it for me.

• 2:13:28Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:13:28Speaker 02

  Just got it, kinda matches the hat. Everybody I know likes to take a picture with that and the hat. So it's kinda popular, but uh,

• 2:13:36Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:13:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, the hat's been in Texas here for a very long time, been stored in Texas. Got it documented about as much as possible as I can.

• 2:13:47Joe Rogan?

  Some fucking nightmares in that hat.

• 2:13:48Speaker 02

  Hey, you know anybody that would, might want it?

• 2:13:52Joe Rogan?

  What, you're selling it?

• 2:13:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:13:54Joe Rogan?

  I bet somebody would want that.

• 2:13:55Speaker 02

  I don't, I don't want it.

• 2:13:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I don't wanna keep that in my house.

• 2:13:59Speaker 02

  No, fuck no, Joe. Why you think I keep it in a black fucking box, man?

• 2:14:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:14:03Speaker 02

  Uh, yeah, I don't want it. Uh, but I know there is people out there that would treat it better than me, like, I crammed it in a box.

• 2:14:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well.

• 2:14:11Speaker 02

  And the guy that stored it for me put it in glass. You know what I mean? Like, he kinda knew what he was doing. Uh, actually, I had it stuffed in a bag.

• 2:14:19Joe Rogan?

  You know what that would be good for? Zack Baggins Haunted Museum.

• 2:14:23Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 2:14:25Joe Rogan?

  Have you ever been to that?

• 2:14:25Speaker 02

  Do you know Zack? No? I hear that place is fucking creepy. My brother said it was fucking creepy.

• 2:14:31Joe Rogan?

  It's fucking creepy.

• 2:14:32Speaker 02

  And my brother likes creepy shit, and he was freaked out.

• 2:14:35Joe Rogan?

  Oh, he's got everything in that place. He's got a Kevorkian's van where he killed all those people.

• 2:14:39Speaker 02

  He's got the Camaro from fucking the Waco, what's, Caresh?

• 2:14:44Joe Rogan?

  Does he?

• 2:14:44Speaker 02

  And like the serial.

• 2:14:45Joe Rogan?

  I don't think so.

• 2:14:46Speaker 02

  I thought he bought the Camaro from Caresh. You were gonna buy?

• 2:14:49Joe Rogan?

  No, yeah, yeah.

• 2:14:50Speaker 02

  Wasn't the serial number like, I am God or something? Wasn't that the serial number?

• 2:14:54Joe Rogan?

  It's a sixty-eight Camaro, and it was for sale, and I came that close to pulling the trigger on it. But I was like, I don't want that fucking bad juju in my life. That's it. Sixty-eight Camaro from Deadly Siege Zack Baggins. Oh, he does have, so he bought it. So Zack bought it.

• 2:15:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:15:09Joe Rogan?

  Oh, he's selling it now, so he got it. It was for sale.

• 2:15:13Speaker 04

  Twenty-three, this was from a year.

• 2:15:14Joe Rogan?

  No, this, it was for sale quite a while ago, and I was gonna buy it.

• 2:15:18Speaker 02

  Holy shit.

• 2:15:19Joe Rogan?

  Somebody emailed me and told me that they know I love old muscle cars, and they said, "Karese's Camaro's for sale." I was like, "Ooh," and I went like this, "Let me buy it," and then I was like, "No." "The fuck am I gonna do with this?"

• 2:15:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'd rather buy one that has no history.

• 2:15:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I have a sixty-nine. I love them. I love old muscle cars, so I was thinking about it, but I was like, "No, no, no, no, no, no." You don't want that in your life.

• 2:15:42Speaker 02

  I had a sixty-seven Camaro when I was a kid.

• 2:15:45Joe Rogan?

  Look at the title, David Karese, Waco, Texas.

• 2:15:48Speaker 02

  What's the, does the serial number say "I am God" or something?

• 2:15:53Joe Rogan?

  No, it seems normal. Look at the VIN number, it's normal, it's a normal VIN number. Fucking crazy asshole. That guy, uh, I, when, you know, you went to the mothership last night?

• 2:16:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:16:04Joe Rogan?

  I was gonna buy another building before that that was run by a cult, and they moved out here. It was called, I forget what the, what was the name, the Bodhi Tree, is that what it was called? Anyway, there's a documentary on it, it's called "Holy Hell." So this guy, this guy, uh, he was a yoga teacher in West Hollywood, and, uh, he was a gay porn star and a hypnotist. So this fucking guy.

• 2:16:29Speaker 02

  He got a lot of ass.

• 2:16:30Joe Rogan?

  So, the Bodhi Field, that's it, thank you. So, uh, Waco goes off, right? And then the Cult Awareness Network starts investigating him, and he's running this cult in West Hollywood. So he escapes in the middle of the night and drives out to Texas, moves to Austin, tells everybody, "Come here." And they all move out to Austin, and then he has them build this place. It's called the One World Theater. And all the cult members ran this place for years until they figured out that this guy was fucking everybody. One guy sends out a mass email, say, "Hey, this guy's been hypnotizing me and buttfucking me for the last ten years." And everybody's like, "Me too." And so then they all find out that he's fucking everybody, this guy. So they all leave, the cult falls apart.

• 2:17:14Joe Rogan?

  The building's for sale. So I swoop in. Um, when I move here, the building's for sale. Ron White tells me about the building being for sale. He's like, this building fucking awesome. I perform there. You should get, you should buy it. So Ron White's my hero. So I'm like, I'll buy it. Fuck it.

• 2:17:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:17:29Joe Rogan?

  You know, I need a club. We're gonna open up a comedy club. Let's open it up in this place. All sorts of problems with the building, code, this, that, lot of environmental, lot of shit. So I get out of it. But I bought the building before I watched the documentary.

• 2:17:43Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 2:17:44Joe Rogan?

  So I watched the documentary and I'm like, oh no. Same thing. It's like these fucking people, all the lives lost. They lived twenty years. These poor people wasted twenty years of their life following this fucking asshole. And he's got this building. But the reason why I bought the building was because of Waco. So when Waco pops off, they, they were like, oh geez, these cults are fucking dangerous. So the cult awareness network starts going after everybody. So this guy moves here and changes his name. So it goes like, back then, you could kinda change, no internet. You could kinda change your name and know, oh, it's a different guy. And so he builds, he has his whole, all his followers build him this theater.

• 2:18:21Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 2:18:22Joe Rogan?

  So for a brief period of time, I was under contract for that theater.

• 2:18:26Speaker 02

  Did you go in their building?

• 2:18:27Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:18:27Speaker 02

  Was it creepy in there?

• 2:18:29Joe Rogan?

  It was a little weird. This guy would like, he had this theater, this beautiful theater. He had it built so he could dance in front of his followers. So he could perform in front of his followers. He was a weird cat. He was like a really handsome guy when he was younger. But then as he got older, he started getting plastic surgery. He got, looked real weird. And he would like, be thinking about getting something done. So he'd force one of his followers to go get it done. And so they'd get it done. They'd come back with their fucking cheeks. So they're like, hmm, I kinda like that. And then he would go and get the, the surgery done. At the end of it, the end of the documentary, he looks really fucking weird. Cause he's got botox and fucking man, cheek and all weird shit to his face. Yeah, but the feeling in the building was just like, like of loss.

• 2:19:13Joe Rogan?

  That's what it felt like, loss. Or just, just, just, oh, no. You know, like, like, you don't want to buy a house from some people that they went bankrupt and they lost everything and their family fell apart. Then you're in the house like, ooh, this house feels like sadness.

• 2:19:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:19:27Joe Rogan?

  That's, I felt like we could burn some sage and fucking party in there for a few days. We'll clean it up.

• 2:19:31Speaker 02

  Get some good energy in.

• 2:19:32Joe Rogan?

  Now, I'm glad, I'm glad that that didn't happen.

• 2:19:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, why even go through that?

• 2:19:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, it was kind of funny at first. I thought it was funny. Until I, you know, a cult owned it. Oh, this is funny. And then my buddy Adam called me up because, hey, you watch a documentary on that cult? I was like, oh, no.

• 2:19:48Speaker 02

  There's a documentary?

• 2:19:50Joe Rogan?

  That's never good.

• 2:19:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:19:51Joe Rogan?

  They don't make doc, make documentaries about the good cults.

• 2:19:53Speaker 02

  No.

• 2:19:54Joe Rogan?

  And it was a fucking, it was horrible. At the end of the documentary, like, you're tearing up. You're like, oh, these poor fucking people. Cause there's so many people, they, some people are just gullible and they, they're not bad people. They just want someone better than them to tell them how to live life.

• 2:20:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:20:08Joe Rogan?

  That's all it is.

• 2:20:08Speaker 02

  They need something. They need someone.

• 2:20:10Joe Rogan?

  Something. They're, they're missing something, whatever it is, something went wrong. And they're willing to believe a lot of really ridiculous shit. And then twenty years later, they realize they wasted their life.

• 2:20:20Speaker 02

  People do a lot of weird shit, call it religion.

• 2:20:22Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. And that was this place.

• 2:20:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:20:26Joe Rogan?

  But that was because of Waco, that this, this guy built this thing.

• 2:20:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:20:32Joe Rogan?

  Damn. The Waco thing's fucked. You ever watched the, the raid?

• 2:20:35Speaker 02

  Uh, I know, yeah. I mean, the raid kind of like, we got the briefings back in the day, like, you know, the raid was a couple of years old, but.

• 2:20:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:20:44Speaker 02

  Um, yeah, I know about the raid.

• 2:20:46Joe Rogan?

  It was pretty fucked. I mean, they just cooked those people.

• 2:20:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, they burned it down.

• 2:20:50Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah. If I could see the tanks like shooting fire into the buildings and like, I don't know what happened. Caught fire.

• 2:20:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, fire.

• 2:20:55Joe Rogan?

  It was back in the nineties when you could kind of get away with something like that and people didn't really know.

• 2:21:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, like, well, we didn't know it would burn. Well, it is made of wood. Like, yeah, but, I mean.

• 2:21:05Joe Rogan?

  And we shot fire at it. I mean, I don't know what happened.

• 2:21:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:21:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:21:09Speaker 02

  Crazy. All right, you ready? I got some other stuff.

• 2:21:12Joe Rogan?

  What else you got? What else you got? So, check this out.

• 2:21:16Speaker 02

  I got, I got a swag bag for you.

• 2:21:18Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 2:21:18Speaker 02

  I got a bunch of stuff I make that I do, right? So I just kinda wanna, I like to do this, right? Look, I got you the SOB hat. This is the best hat we sell right here. It's the one, I wear this on the range every day.

• 2:21:33Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 2:21:34Speaker 02

  I got you the same t-shirt as me, Team SOB shirt, right? Well, welcome to the team, Joe.

• 2:21:40Joe Rogan?

  Thank you.

• 2:21:41Speaker 02

  Uh, we're glad to have you. One of my second favorite shirt of all times is this, and I wear this every day when I elk hunt.

• 2:21:49Joe Rogan?

  Do you really?

• 2:21:49Speaker 02

  Yeah. Oh, wait. Oh, no. This is the wrong one. I got a shirt, I'd, I sell these shirts, they're called slaughter things, and it's all I wear in elk camp. You know what I mean? But look, we got you a shut up hippie shirt. I sell a ton of these, like, I wear these normally.

• 2:22:05Joe Rogan?

  Are they knives?

• 2:22:06Speaker 02

  They're bullets.

• 2:22:07Joe Rogan?

  Bullets.

• 2:22:07Speaker 02

  They're bullets. Got you a shut up hippie shirt. I, when I go to California, teach California classes, I, I wear a shut up hippie shirt all the time. Uh, and then tons of guys buy them. Uh, I had a guy, he comes to my classes, he's a younger kid, he's tall, got a young family, right? They go to, I think Asheville, North Carolina, and they're eating at like some destination, like, you gotta go eat here, and it's a bus. So he's a big guy, right? And he's in this like school bus, and it's where you gotta order, is in this old school bus. So he said, like, my shoulders are almost touching the ceiling, and he had to put his head down, and he had his shut up hippie shirt on behind him. And some, hey, some hippie behind him was like, better be careful wearing that shirt, you'll get your ass kicked around here, right?

• 2:22:51Speaker 02

  And he, and he says he looks back, and he pulled up his shirt, and he said, better make it a gunfight, and they shut the fuck up.

• 2:22:57Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's hilarious.

• 2:22:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, North Carolina's.

• 2:23:00Joe Rogan?

  You're gonna get your ass kicked.

• 2:23:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:23:01Joe Rogan?

  That's so funny.

• 2:23:02Speaker 02

  By hippies.

• 2:23:03Joe Rogan?

  That's so funny. Okay. That's the most gentle ass kicking of all time.

• 2:23:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, thank you for that. You know what I mean?

• 2:23:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:23:09Speaker 02

  Okay, I got you condom holster. I make these 365. It's your EDC.

• 2:23:14Joe Rogan?

  You um, you make these out of leather, right?

• 2:23:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, uh, they're made out of leather.

• 2:23:18Joe Rogan?

  I saw this on Sean's show.

• 2:23:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:23:20Joe Rogan?

  Nice.

• 2:23:20Speaker 02

  It's A, it's all I use. It's all I wear. It is the most comfortable holster. Uh, here, and that's all this stuff for you. I'll give you the bag too also.

• 2:23:28Joe Rogan?

  Oh, I got a bag.

• 2:23:29Speaker 02

  Okay, so check this out. Here's another thing I use all the time. The cooling schmog. So basically.

• 2:23:35Joe Rogan?

  I saw this too.

• 2:23:36Speaker 02

  You know what the, you know the schmogs, right?

• 2:23:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:23:39Speaker 02

  Basically, I made a cooling towel the size of a schmog.

• 2:23:42Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 2:23:42Speaker 02

  So like, when I'm on the range, literally, I just dump a bottle of water in my neck. The fucking thing absorbs it.

• 2:23:48Joe Rogan?

  What's it made out of?

• 2:23:49Speaker 02

  It's the cooling material, you know, like the cooling towel material, right?

• 2:23:53Joe Rogan?

  Right, right, right.

• 2:23:54Speaker 02

  The, the problem with most cooling towels is they're not big enough. So it's like one layer on your neck and it dries in like two minutes. This.

• 2:24:01Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:24:01Speaker 02

  This, you could kinda get double it up, pour water on it. It'll stay cool for a long time.

• 2:24:06Joe Rogan?

  Cause I've seen people, they're, they're making gear and clothes out of like this cooling material. What is it? What is it?

• 2:24:11Speaker 02

  I don't know. I think it's like, it, the way it's woven to where when the water drains out of it, it cools quicker.

• 2:24:17Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:24:18Speaker 02

  And it's materials that cool clicker, or feel cool to the touch.

• 2:24:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:24:22Speaker 02

  Kinda deal, without knowing what it is.

• 2:24:23Joe Rogan?

  I've heard like, people talk about clothes that they make out of this. They're like, it's really legit. Like, for whatever reason, it like, keeps you cooler.

• 2:24:30Speaker 02

  I would wear t-shirts on the range made of that shit every fucking day I'm outside.

• 2:24:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah?

• 2:24:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, fuck yeah.

• 2:24:37Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 2:24:37Speaker 02

  Especially in the heat, you know what I mean? Okay, so check it out. I got you a couple slings. I don't know if you have rifles, but.

• 2:24:43Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 2:24:44Speaker 02

  Hundred percent made in America. Uh, everything on the sling is made. There's a QD on there. I make traditionally QDs in the gun world.

• 2:24:53Joe Rogan?

  If somebody wants to buy any of this stuff, where do they get it online?

• 2:24:56Speaker 02

  Sheriff of Baghdad, Joe.

• 2:24:57Joe Rogan?

  SheriffofBaghdad.com?

• 2:24:59Speaker 02

  That's right. That's right. Okay, here's another thing I got you. Punchers, punch daggers. So it's G10, uh.

• 2:25:06Joe Rogan?

  I got, I got a few of them here. Okay, so this doesn't even go through a metal detector?

• 2:25:10Speaker 02

  That's right. There's A, there's no metal in the sheath. It's all plastic screws. A, cleans up easy. Won't, no DNA, you could clean it in diesel fuel, it'll wash all the DNA off.

• 2:25:21Joe Rogan?

  Diesel fuel?

• 2:25:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, you're washing anything.

• 2:25:23Joe Rogan?

  Is that the move?

• 2:25:24Speaker 02

  Alcohol, yeah.

• 2:25:24Joe Rogan?

  Diesel fuel's the move?

• 2:25:25Speaker 02

  I think so.

• 2:25:26Joe Rogan?

  Just go to the gas station?

• 2:25:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. You could do fucking dish soap, but you can't permeate the plastic, it'll come clean. And I sharpen them with, um, I sharpen them normally with like 400 grit sandpaper.

• 2:25:40Joe Rogan?

  Do you really?

• 2:25:41Speaker 02

  I just re-sharpen them with sandpaper. But, the reason I made it is I always wanted something where like, I was always wearing my body armor, right? And I wanted to just put the punch dagger right in the center, that way if something happened, I could get it.

• 2:25:55Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:25:56Speaker 02

  Boom, and just start fucking punching. I mean, the whole problem with knives is you gotta learn how to use a knife. But with a punch dagger, if you could throw a punch.

• 2:26:04Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:26:05Speaker 02

  You could bury that thing in someone's neck, you know what I mean? Which was what I would tell anyone.

• 2:26:10Joe Rogan?

  Jamie's been looking for one of those for a while.

• 2:26:11Speaker 02

  Haven't you, Jamie?

• 2:26:13Speaker 04

  When Carl gets out of line?

• 2:26:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, hey. It'll clean the DNA off, sand it down, a little alcohol. Okay. Another thing I made, and this is super important, I call these combat bands. It's a high-temperature silicone, but it's a rubber band. The so what here is, when like, when I carry this rifle, I put a sling on it, but if I'm in in and out of vehicles, the sling is always just hanging somewhere, right? So I put the rubber band on the gun, and then I just weave the sling underneath the rubber band.

• 2:26:43Joe Rogan?

  So if this touches the barrel, it doesn't melt?

• 2:26:44Speaker 02

  Right, right. And then back in the day, I had to use actual rubber bands for parachutes. And it fucking lasts a day, like, in the heat in Texas, a rubber band will last one day in a car. Well, well, that's only one day, I might, I gotta go to, out every day in my car, right? So, when I retired, it's one of the things I wanted the most, so I made them the... Uh, guys use them to like, put suppressor covers, hold them on their, you know, on their suppressors.

• 2:27:10Joe Rogan?

  You have great videos, online, like instructional videos, like how to fight out of your car?

• 2:27:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, thank you, yeah.

• 2:27:17Joe Rogan?

  They're really like informative, like, like things I didn't think I was interested in learning. Then I started watching this, like, this guy's fucking thought this shit through.

• 2:27:26Speaker 02

  It's all I did, Joe, like, and I'm, look, I'm a simple guy. Let me just show you how I did this, right? Maybe you come up with a better way, I don't know, right? And, but I think this is like... This is the difference between the army and the unit. In the army, they're like, here's a gun, kid, go use it. In the unit, they're like, let me show you to the nth degree how to use that rifle. So when something happens, guess what? You know what I'm saying? So it's the difference between showing someone something and teaching someone something. And I think those are different. And I think, I think that's what the unit was good at. Uh, here's some of my favorite things, the boot kits. Um, Solomon boots made for the military. I've been wearing Solomon boots. You'll see a set of Solomon boots in the Saddam picture.

• 2:28:11Joe Rogan?

  I hunted with them this year.

• 2:28:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, it's all I wear are Solomons, right? Well, if you got the quests, you know how the laces kind of come?

• 2:28:18Joe Rogan?

  Yep.

• 2:28:18Speaker 02

  So.

• 2:28:19Joe Rogan?

  Like the running shoes do.

• 2:28:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. So I turn them into like the running shoes.

• 2:28:23Joe Rogan?

  Nice.

• 2:28:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, we sell a ton of those. Okay.

• 2:28:26Joe Rogan?

  And what do you do with the extra lace?

• 2:28:28Speaker 02

  Cut it off.

• 2:28:28Joe Rogan?

  Oh, you just cut it off?

• 2:28:30Speaker 02

  I, I loosen the boot where I get my foot out and I cut the excess off and put the end on.

• 2:28:34Joe Rogan?

  Ah.

• 2:28:36Speaker 02

  So, so I don't have like three feet of laces. I only have like eight or 10 inches. You know what I mean? Six inches, whatever it is.

• 2:28:43Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 2:28:44Speaker 02

  Uh, these are, these are some of my best things. Uh, this is a, I would call it a scribe tool, right? In the fact that, that it's a carpenter pencil. Makes sense. Uh huh. You know a carpenter pencil?

• 2:28:59Joe Rogan?

  Sure.

• 2:28:59Speaker 02

  But the middle is G10. Same thing as the punch knife. So it's for stabbing. A lot of guys carry them, go through metal detectors. A lot of guys carry them airports, like these things. I get pictures of these things everywhere.

• 2:29:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:29:15Speaker 02

  Uh, I made it fist size so you could punch with it or kind of get a good stab with it. Uh, if you wanted, you know what I mean? Something I always wanted.

• 2:29:24Joe Rogan?

  Smart.

• 2:29:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:29:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I have a pencil like that.

• 2:29:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:29:27Joe Rogan?

  Someone gave me.

• 2:29:27Speaker 02

  Yep, yep. Um, okay. So check this out. You, uh, here's a bunch of stickers we make. Uh, some of the things that happen on the range, blind guys, I always tell them they can't see shit. Uh, you know how like when you shoot and guys like really push their butt backwards? I call that the prison wallet. You know what I mean? I'd be like, I mean. Showing me your prison wallet, you know what I mean? Uh, so there's a lot of stickers are like funny shit. I tell guys all the time, like, a guy will be shooting good all day long. At the end of the day, he'll fuck something up and I'll just come up. All I gotta do is whisper to a guy, be like, sucks to suck, don't it? And the guy will be like, shut the fuck up, you know what I mean? So, uh, all the stickers are just funny shit that happens on the range, right? And then, look, this is the premise of the NRA show we talked about earlier is,

• 2:30:13Speaker 02

  I made a little card, um, the gun world is sketchy information at best. Generally speaking of where your bullets go and why, like it's fucking magic.

• 2:30:24Joe Rogan?

  This is about eye dominance.

• 2:30:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, one side's eye dominance, the other one is how to fix yourself, where the bullets go and why.

• 2:30:31Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 2:30:31Speaker 02

  Makes sense?

• 2:30:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:30:33Speaker 02

  So, look, this edge.

• 2:30:35Joe Rogan?

  Well, how you?

• 2:30:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, so like this edge is.

• 2:30:38Joe Rogan?

  Tension on the left hand.

• 2:30:39Speaker 02

  Yep, and then, like, uh, you use this edge. So if your group is generally tall, right? You got stance issues and then as you see your group, whatever angle it's on, the arrows point to it and tell you how to fix it.

• 2:30:54Joe Rogan?

  Interesting.

• 2:30:55Speaker 02

  Now, backside eye dominance, this is where the gun world fucks up. And I'll tell you this, the gun world talks about two things for eyes. Primary hand, primary eye, right-handed, right eye dominant. They talk about being cross-eyed dominant, right-handed, left eye dominant, right?

• 2:31:12Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:31:12Speaker 02

  Okay, here's how the vision I think really works. Okay, um, being primary hand, primary eye is the guy who makes all the rules in shooting. You should open your eyes, you should do this, right? He makes all the rules, but the reality is, is his vision is his right eye on a scale of one to 10, he'll tell you borderline 11, because it's that fucking good, you know what I mean? Borderline 11 in the good eye. Ask him the vision in his other eye and he's going to tell you hard eight, it's not really so good. This guy will always be able to keep the other eye open. Make sense?

• 2:31:47Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:31:48Speaker 02

  Okay, now. These are the same thing. Whether your primary hand, primary eye, or cross eye dominant, it's the same thing. You have a strong eye and a weak eye, and the strong eye takes over. Doesn't fucking matter, strong eye takes over.

• 2:32:01Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:32:02Speaker 02

  Fucking easy for you. Okay. This is one out of 10. The other nine are what I call eye neutral. Right? They don't have a dominant eye. And either eye could take over at any time. Because either eye on a pistol could see the sights at any time.

• 2:32:17Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:32:18Speaker 02

  And this is where people get fucked up.

• 2:32:20Joe Rogan?

  That makes sense with archery, too.

• 2:32:22Speaker 02

  100%. It's the same.

• 2:32:23Joe Rogan?

  I don't like to keep both eyes open. I've tried it.

• 2:32:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, that's because you're what I would call eye neutral.

• 2:32:31Speaker 02

  See what I'm saying? And then, I would, I would also say this, if you have a gray hair on your head, you're closer to being eye neutral than any eye dominant, any fucking thing because of life. Right? And, and the reason I would tell you that is because the part of the brain that works the eyes is like the part of the brain that works the ears. It's the part of the brain that works the legs and the arms, right? They work, all these things on your subconscious, I think, work better together and are stronger together. What do I mean by that? You know, you know, when it comes to leg days, dudes are like, dude, man, bro, on a squat 500 on leg day. Okay, does that mean you can do 250 pounds with one leg? No. You can't, probably, right? Because the legs are stronger together than they are independently.

• 2:33:14Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:33:14Speaker 02

  And this is a function of the, the, the deep part of your brain, the fast part of your brain, right? Um, so having said that, you can't choose an ear, can you?

• 2:33:23Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:33:24Speaker 02

  The only way you can choose an eye is the eyelid, which has nothing to do with vision or dominance.

• 2:33:28Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 2:33:29Speaker 02

  See what I'm saying?

• 2:33:30Joe Rogan?

  That makes sense. Like, I've never heard anybody say that before, but now that you're saying it, I'm like, okay.

• 2:33:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, so if you look at the card, right? If you're like right-handed, right eye dominant, you should be hitting in the middle of the circle there, right? But if your left eye takes over, look where the rounds will go. And it'll always be, look, it'll always be eye distance apart on your target. So people that have eye issues, they don't shoot one group. They shoot two groups, one for each eye, and the gun goes left eye, right eye, left eye, right eye.

• 2:34:01Joe Rogan?

  Evan was telling me that he learned to practice left-handed a lot.

• 2:34:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:34:07Joe Rogan?

  And he practices things, even though he's right-hand dominant, he's like, help, it helped the right side to practice with the left side.

• 2:34:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:34:15Joe Rogan?

  Do you subscribe to that?

• 2:34:16Speaker 02

  Uh, yes, I do, and I'll tell you why. Uh, before I retired from the army, um, I tore my bicep out of my, out of my left arm, I'm left-handed. So I went and turned in all my left-handed holsters and got right-handed holsters. And I was like, I'm gonna train myself to be right-handed from here forward, cuz the VA said I'd never use my left hand again. Um, so I was like, okay, fuck you guys, I'll be a righty. You can't slow me down, you know what I mean?

• 2:34:39Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:34:40Speaker 02

  Uh, and then I started training as a righty. Took me about two weeks, I was fucked up, is tough, you know what I mean? I had to stick with it, fucking a lot of frustrating days. And after about two weeks, my brain just transferred all that skill to the right hand.

• 2:34:53Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 2:34:54Speaker 02

  And I just fucking rocked it from then on out.

• 2:34:57Joe Rogan?

  Makes sense, because you have this mental memory of excellence with one side. You just have to...

• 2:35:02Speaker 02

  Well, think about this, if, if you actually knew perfect practice, you could switch that to the other hand.

• 2:35:07Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:35:07Speaker 02

  But if you never knew perfect practice, the other hand would get the same garbage.

• 2:35:11Joe Rogan?

  Right. That makes sense.

• 2:35:12Speaker 02

  Yeah. So...

• 2:35:14Joe Rogan?

  That I think completely makes sense, and I've never heard anybody say it before. Everybody says you should keep both eyes open.

• 2:35:20Speaker 02

  Well, you should, but the guy who made that rule has a strong eye and a weak eye, and he can do that.

• 2:35:24Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:35:24Speaker 02

  Where you, your brain, when I say someone is eye-neutral, your brain treats your eyes as equal. What does that mean? Your vision could be shit, it could be great, but the brain says, I got two windows. I look out of this one, eh, let me look out of that one.

• 2:35:39Joe Rogan?

  And you're going back and forth.

• 2:35:40Speaker 02

  You'll see the gun move, you'll see the head move, and there, and then most of the time, it just, like, it's no good. You're just not seeing it good. Makes sense?

• 2:35:49Joe Rogan?

  It does. Are you one of those guys that resists red dots or do you?

• 2:35:53Speaker 02

  I don't give a shit. You know what I mean?

• 2:35:55Joe Rogan?

  But did you ever resist it at all?

• 2:35:57Speaker 02

  So.

• 2:35:58Joe Rogan?

  Cause iron sights never fail you. They're always there. No batteries.

• 2:36:01Speaker 02

  I am not a red dot guy. I'm an iron sight guy. However, let me explain myself. The internet knows me as a red dot hater. But, you know, I'm taking that video and I'm gonna draw one line through that red dot back to your face. And if it don't point exactly to your eye, you're shooting and not seeing shit. And every time I show this to somebody, they're like, so you're against red dots? No. You're never gonna catch the red dot unless you get better technique.

• 2:36:28Joe Rogan?

  And you get better technique with iron sights?

• 2:36:30Speaker 02

  Well, no, you can have good technique with a red dot also if you had fucking good technique and someone showed it to you, but no one shows it to you, right? The next thing with the red dot is the red dot is great for guys who don't see well. Because what happens is the red dot becomes in between you, your eye, and the target. Makes sense essentially, right? So you'll be able to see that. But what no one tells you is it's harder to learn, harder to master.

• 2:36:59Speaker 02

  So you need it, but you need to train with it properly or it's not doing you any good.

• 2:37:02Joe Rogan?

  Why is it harder to learn?

• 2:37:04Speaker 02

  Few reasons. You know, if you look at pro shooters, high level pro shooters, guys that are like fucking insanely fast, winning, you know, national IPSIC champs, Rob, Rob Latham, Dave Savigny, you look at these guys, what you'll see is like, they're so much more efficient than anyone else, right? And they'll use a way bigger sight. Like, I think the winningest sight of all time in like gun games is, it's like the Seymour STS, but it's like more of the size of a beer can than, than it is the little tactical sight.

• 2:37:42Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:37:43Speaker 02

  So now when you shrink that thing down to a postage stamp, they put a coating on it so it doesn't fucking reflect or whatever, but you can't see through it well. And they curve the glass, which anyone who shoots rifle scopes will tell you fish eye is a fucking real thing. But this red dot has all these things going on and it's supposed to be better for a guy who don't see shit.

• 2:38:04Joe Rogan?

  That's interesting.

• 2:38:05Speaker 02

  And it just becomes harder to do. And then, once you show them how to get it right, like, they'll never have problems again.

• 2:38:12Joe Rogan?

  But it's all about showing them how to get it right.

• 2:38:13Speaker 02

  Right, right. And then, no one talks about that because they're stuck on, you can't use the right eye, or they never get past that.

• 2:38:19Joe Rogan?

  How important is it to teach people the right way the first time, so they don't have to unlearn shit?

• 2:38:24Speaker 02

  Man, everyone has a preconceived notion of what they think they should do, whether you've shot before or not, and I'm gonna have to unfuck that.

• 2:38:36Joe Rogan?

  No matter what.

• 2:38:36Speaker 02

  No matter what. So it's like, you know, it's like, uh, kinda like in the dojo where it's like, okay, uh, I want you to do like twenty good, twenty shitty arm bars, and then we'll, we'll get the hips better on the next twenty. We'll tweak the hand on the next twenty. We'll, you know what I mean? Like, get some of them bulk movements down first.

• 2:38:55Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:38:55Speaker 02

  And then, we keep fine tuning.

• 2:38:57Joe Rogan?

  Right, fine tuning.

• 2:38:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, so, it doesn't matter if, I mean, look, even if, even if you learned how to punch from Jon Jones on your first day, you wouldn't go out and win a match that night.

• 2:39:08Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:39:09Speaker 02

  You know what I mean? So, I think it's like, I always, I tell people this all the time, one percent better a day. Just one percent. That's what I'm looking for today. If I can be one percent better today than I was yesterday, well, that's three hundred and sixty-five percent by the end of the year, and I didn't do much every day. You know what I mean? So I always tell people, like, shooting or a skill like this is a marathon, not a sprint.

• 2:39:32Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:39:32Speaker 02

  So, it's better to-

• 2:39:33Joe Rogan?

  That's, that's with everything, right?

• 2:39:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think so.

• 2:39:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I think so too.

• 2:39:36Speaker 02

  And I tell you, you're like, you know, if you, if, if you think you're gonna have to pull a gun and save your family one day, you should be practicing a few times a week.

• 2:39:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:39:45Speaker 02

  You know, and it doesn't have to be much, but you should be practicing a little bit.

• 2:39:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:39:49Speaker 02

  Getting this gun out shouldn't be a shock to you when the time comes, because it's not gonna come to you then.

• 2:39:53Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:39:54Speaker 02

  Yeah?

• 2:39:55Joe Rogan?

  That's great advice.

• 2:39:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:39:56Joe Rogan?

  Do you enjoy teaching?

• 2:39:58Speaker 02

  I fucking love teaching. I love helping people, uh, now that I'm doing jits again, a lot of people want me to show them like, fucking cars and guns and jits and guns, and I don't know if I'm ready to take my sanity pastime and turn it into work. You know what I'm saying? So-

• 2:40:16Joe Rogan?

  I understand.

• 2:40:17Speaker 02

  I, I, I play with guns now, and a lot of guys have told me, I need to be like, you know, like the car bailouts, like all this shit, like I do, uh- I'm afraid to ruin jujitsu as work. So I've been, I've been reluctant and I always tell people I'll never teach jujitsu, but like, I fucking teach anyone everything. I mean, if we can get better today, let's talk about it.

• 2:40:38Joe Rogan?

  One thing about teaching jujitsu though is I think it makes you better at jujitsu. I think it's selfish. It's like a good thing for you.

• 2:40:45Speaker 02

  Well, okay, you know this, you're a black belt, right? Every day you went to a dojo, you were trying to hand that black belt his ass. And then you get your black belt and now everyone, every day, the rest of your life is trying to hand you your ass. You know what I mean? It's a fucking thankless job.

• 2:41:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:41:03Speaker 02

  No, I love it.

• 2:41:04Joe Rogan?

  No one's trying to hand you your ass.

• 2:41:06Speaker 02

  Fuck yeah, let's go.

• 2:41:07Joe Rogan?

  That's the beautiful thing about jujitsu too. Like you don't really, you don't catch any breaks. You might get it one day where there's like, oh, there's only blue belts here.

• 2:41:15Speaker 02

  I love it when someone forces me into like real survival mode. Now, I'm not talking about like, you know, you got a triangle and I'm just gonna ride this. I'm talking like someone like, I'm like fucking, I gotta do something now. I fucking love that, man.

• 2:41:31Joe Rogan?

  How are you, how are you avoiding injuries?

• 2:41:33Speaker 02

  Um, okay. So, uh, first and foremost, uh, I started out, I don't even take Motrin. I try to take no drugs. After I got off the pills from the VA and started getting active and, you know, I try not to take any medicines at all. I went to master worlds and motherfuckers are yoked up fucking and the gear is out. You know what I mean? Like these motherfuckers are working out since last year, just to fucking stroke a motherfucker today. Right? So like, I was a little unprepared this year for worlds, uh, in that aspect, but, um, I'm all for the peptides. I'm all for the TR. I'm not against any of it, um, per se.

• 2:42:12Speaker 02

  Uh, and, and I think that's a, uh, I did the peptides. I just, I'm not, I don't, I don't like shots, like,

• 2:42:19Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:42:20Speaker 02

  And I won't give myself a shot.

• 2:42:22Joe Rogan?

  You were talking about that on Sean Ryan's show. You don't like, you have something piercing your skin.

• 2:42:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, like, I don't like that. I don't know why, right? Like, I know.

• 2:42:29Joe Rogan?

  It's so weird. A guy's been through everything that you've been through is like needles, sketch me out.

• 2:42:34Speaker 02

  I mean, just give it, it doesn't hurt. Like I'm not a sissy about it, but it's like,

• 2:42:38Joe Rogan?

  Peptides are so easy though.

• 2:42:39Speaker 02

  I know. Well, I took the pills. I took the, I took the pill.

• 2:42:43Joe Rogan?

  PBC 157?

• 2:42:44Speaker 02

  Yeah. And, and I'll tell you like,

• 2:42:46Joe Rogan?

  Super legit.

• 2:42:47Speaker 02

  Uh, was it Gary Brekka, that guy?

• 2:42:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:42:50Speaker 02

  He talks about redheaded people. I'm a redheaded people. I got pale skin, you know.

• 2:42:55Joe Rogan?

  Redheaded people have better pain tolerance.

• 2:42:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, I, well, I take drugs different.

• 2:42:59Joe Rogan?

  I think there's a thing about that, though. See, Google that. Redheaded people have better pain tolerance.

• 2:43:04Speaker 02

  My whole life, I've taken drugs differently. Like, I don't get Percocet, I get Dilaudid.

• 2:43:10Joe Rogan?

  Ah.

• 2:43:11Speaker 02

  So I think like you-

• 2:43:12Joe Rogan?

  Like when you got roofied. Like, everybody else conked out.

• 2:43:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm just in over-party mode, like-

• 2:43:17Joe Rogan?

  You were also talking about on Sean's show that you take, you have the thing that Jamie has where you can take a lot of edibles and you don't feel it.

• 2:43:23Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, the weed gummies are fucking worth it.

• 2:43:26Joe Rogan?

  Some studies have found that redheads have a lower pain threshold, but other studies have found the opposite. Oh, okay. So it's all fucked up. Inconclusive. Inconclusive.

• 2:43:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, but, um, yeah, man.

• 2:43:36Joe Rogan?

  Depends on the individual.

• 2:43:37Speaker 02

  So, but I will tell you this, it healed my stomach and my healing went from like, a week or two to like, four days.

• 2:43:46Joe Rogan?

  BBC 157 is very legit.

• 2:43:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, and then, um, so anyway, uh, I wanna do more in the future. Uh, I'd like to, uh, I'd kinda wanna do it all. Like, I mean, I'm fucking, I'm 54, man.

• 2:43:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's why I was asking, like, what are you do- what are you doing to avoid injuries?

• 2:44:01Speaker 02

  Okay, so besides that, I do cardio. Uh, a couple of years ago, my first elk hunt, my first elk bow hunt, you know, we ride up to like 9,000 feet and then like walked up three miles from there.

• 2:44:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:44:14Speaker 02

  Like, yo, I was 280 at one time. That was a fucking hell of a walk for a big fat motherfucker up that fucking mountain. And then, I hunt with these old guys and then the two guys I was with, like, two of the guys have hearing aids. And the other-

• 2:44:28Joe Rogan?

  From guns, right?

• 2:44:29Speaker 02

  Huh?

• 2:44:29Joe Rogan?

  From guns?

• 2:44:30Speaker 02

  Uh, I don't know, they're just older or whatever.

• 2:44:33Joe Rogan?

  Their ears blown out.

• 2:44:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, they're hunters, right? Yeah. So, both of them got hearing aids and the front one looks back to the second one, both good friends of mine, like, and was like, "Turn your hearing aids down so you ain't gotta hear and breathe so fucking loud." And I'm like, "I heard you, motherfuck you!" Like, so, uh, I told myself, like, I was gonna start walking 30 minutes a day and that was fucking hard. And then now I do like an hour of cardio. I could run, but I don't, um, but I started again. I need to be running a little bit for cardio. Um, I, I treat strength as two different things. I spent about a year-

• 2:45:12Speaker 02

  Uh, with 15 pound dumbbells, just like rehabbing motion, movement joints. And it was a lot of fucking pain. And then, you know, now I'm, I'm getting stronger every day. I've been, you know, power athlete, big John, but I kind of look at strength two different ways. I try to do strength days where it's like the traditional squats, deads, like all the big ones, push pulls, all of it, covered all. And then I see it as a conditioning as something separate. Right? And conditioning would be lighter weight, like CrossFit, like round, like without, without knowing how to say it better. So, uh, but the steps, fucking, I'm going to tell you this, I'll tell anybody this, you want to fucking start

• 2:45:54Speaker 02

  losing weight, it starts at 10,000 fucking steps a day. Get your ass out there, start fucking walking. Uh, and then the next thing I did is, uh, I went to a competition class, um, by Sean's in Tennessee. And, uh, I got a diet, I got workouts, I got an app, I tracked my diet. I did, uh, right before Worlds, I was at 170 grams of protein, 1800 calories a day.

• 2:46:18Joe Rogan?

  So you're very strict about it.

• 2:46:20Speaker 02

  Yeah. And I shredded weight. Um, I cut, I cut down, I was probably 240, I cut down to 222. I was the smallest human being in the fucking 222, cause everyone's yoked up like fucking mad men.

• 2:46:33Joe Rogan?

  And they probably all cut weight too.

• 2:46:35Speaker 02

  Well, my coaches were like, you know, and I can't believe I even listened to this, but they're like, man, it's the 55 bracket. Like it's guys like you, this is their pastime. You know what I mean?

• 2:46:46Joe Rogan?

  55 today is not the same.

• 2:46:47Speaker 02

  Yo, these motherfuckers will cut, this is fucking killer season out at this bitch. You know what I mean? Like I was unprepared for, man, I had this big Mongolian motherfucker. Uh, you know Edwin, Nedwin Jammy? You know Edwin? Edwin, uh, Gracie Barra, Tarzana, uh, California, right? Edwin's like a jujitsu legend. He's at Worlds. Who's your coach? I don't fucking have a coach. It's me and my backpack and a gi. Let's fucking get this fight going bitch. And he's like, well, I'll coach you. And I'm like, okay. You know what I mean? I don't got a coach. And then like, right before we walk out on the mat, he's like, yo ref, are they the same weight? And I'm like, yo, my man Ed, this is my coach right here, my man, like, you know what I mean? But like, this dude was fucking huge. And he was one of them Mongolian jacket wrestlers. You done this?

• 2:47:32Joe Rogan?

  Oh, I've seen that.

• 2:47:33Speaker 02

  I couldn't, I couldn't get the takedown. And then we went down on the ground. He hit me with a, like a fucking paper cutter, popped my head out, tried to choke me again. Fucking got out of it. But as I was getting up, I knew I needed to keep this guy on the ground. But guess what, man? When you get in trouble, guess what you do? You stand the fuck up and this dude stand up. And I knew I wasn't getting my two points back. And then I was just fucking exhausted, like, I was fucking gassed.

• 2:47:58Joe Rogan?

  So you decided to ramp up their conditioning?

• 2:48:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, fuck yeah, man. This year, I'm fucking winning. I'm fucking world champion, Joe. I'm the toughest old motherfucker I fucking know. You know, god damn it, let's fucking go. I'm gonna figure this shit out. But I will tell you, I think what I didn't know is you gotta train to compete to compete well. And I fucking fight, and I wanna fight, and I wanna get smashed, and I wanna fucking, I wanna almost lose this fight 10 fucking times to finally get that fucking submission on you. And that's a great fight to me. And like, yo, yeah, yeah, you just lost 13 points on that.

• 2:48:33Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:48:34Speaker 02

  And then if you don't get the submission, you just lost 13 points on that. You know what I mean? Like, so it's a, it's a different animal.

• 2:48:40Joe Rogan?

  About treating it like the sport versus what you get out of it, what you like.

• 2:48:45Speaker 02

  And I'll tell you this is like, I probably could have changed the match if I would have pulled guard around three minutes in. I never pulled guard in my fucking life. Like, what kind of fucking asshole pulls fucking guard? Well, I figured it out. I'll tell you what kind of asshole. When you can't take a bigger motherfucker down.

• 2:49:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:49:04Speaker 02

  This is maybe what pulling guard is for. Or, in the real world, walk the fuck away.

• 2:49:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:49:11Speaker 02

  Before you fucking just get fucking smashed out here. You know what I mean? Thinking you're something you ain't.

• 2:49:16Joe Rogan?

  Do you spend a lot of time practicing off your back? Cause a lot of times with big guys, they don't like-

• 2:49:20Speaker 02

  I'll start there. Fucking get my neck. Let's go. You can't ta- I will give you my back just to fucking get out. I don't give a fuck, man. I love it.

• 2:49:28Joe Rogan?

  That's great. That's great.

• 2:49:29Speaker 02

  I always like, honestly, when I, when I'm like, when I'm just at the dojo, like, girls or smaller people, right? Like, I try not to smash them.

• 2:49:38Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:49:39Speaker 02

  And, and I'll tell them like, hey, if I get on top, just fucking sweep me.

• 2:49:42Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:49:43Speaker 02

  Stay on top of me the whole time. And I just fucking let them go at me.

• 2:49:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I would just pretend that I'm weak. When I would roll with someone who's weak, I would pretend I'm weak. And like, that's, I think that's the best way to do it. Like, no strength. I'm never gonna use strength.

• 2:49:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:49:57Joe Rogan?

  I think that's, Hickson always said that, that defense was more important than anything. He said,

• 2:50:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:50:02Joe Rogan?

  "I am always safe. No matter where I am, I am always safe. Defense."

• 2:50:07Speaker 02

  You're fucking, hey, your Hickson is great, by the way, dude.

• 2:50:10Joe Rogan?

  You've seen Choke? You've seen the documentary?

• 2:50:12Speaker 02

  I have not seen Choke, but I just finished his new book, the dark one. Dark?

• 2:50:19Joe Rogan?

  Dark?

• 2:50:19Speaker 02

  Hickson came out with a new book. I just, I just audiobooked it the other day.

• 2:50:23Joe Rogan?

  Because he's got Parkinson's now.

• 2:50:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, but, uh, you know, he's got the breathe book, but he just came out with a new one. I just listened to it like last week. You know what I mean?

• 2:50:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:50:30Speaker 02

  But, uh-

• 2:50:31Joe Rogan?

  You gotta watch Choke.

• 2:50:32Speaker 02

  I got to.

• 2:50:33Joe Rogan?

  One of the greatest documentaries of all time.

• 2:50:34Speaker 02

  I know, I've heard that.

• 2:50:35Joe Rogan?

  For a martial artist? It's fucking incredible. It's Hickson in his prime, competing in Japan Valley Tudo. And just you see him training and doing his yoga and all the crazy breathing shit where his stomach sucks up inside of him. I don't even know how to do that.

• 2:50:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, he, uh, when, uh, when he was testing me for my purple belt, he was like, "Yes, um, yes, yeah, when, when I lay on the ground, I am flat." He's like, "When you lay on the ground, you are not flat. You should roll more." I'm like, "Hey, are you, I know you know enough English just to call me fucking fat, you know what I mean? But god damn it."

• 2:51:13Joe Rogan?

  You should roll more.

• 2:51:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, I should roll, yeah. And he's, he's showing me like, rolls from side control, getting out of stuff because I am more round than I am flat. And it's kind of like, you know, fat guys should roll more. It's hard to stop, you know?

• 2:51:25Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:51:26Speaker 02

  So he had, there's some real fucking wisdom in there, you know what I mean? But it's like, I always like how like, they know enough English to insult you, but they'll say it like their way, you know, yes, you are-

• 2:51:36Joe Rogan?

  Well, he's just being practical.

• 2:51:37Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah. No, it's just real talk. And that's what he does.

• 2:51:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:51:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, that guy's-

• 2:51:41Joe Rogan?

  It's pretty cool getting your purple belt from that guy.

• 2:51:44Speaker 02

  I am the only person, so, okay, I had to do the paperwork. You know, there's other like big time Hickson black belts out there that kinda police up all, everybody. So when you go to Worlds or you fight, you know, like these guys, and they told me they would, they'd get me under their paperwork. But literally, I did the paperwork with IBJJF and I sent it to Hickson and he filled out the paperwork. But like, I didn't know, I sent him the paperwork and it's like one of them forms where you just sign it with your finger on your phone, like super easy.

• 2:52:14Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:52:15Speaker 02

  I sent it to Hickson. I was like, hey, coach, we got a form, we got to sign and he's not, he's not a member of any of these organizations anymore. So like, I didn't know how this would go and they're like, sent me a fucking paper copy and they're like, have Mr. Gracie sign this signature, right? So I, I texted to Hickson. I'm like, hey, coach, can you sign my paperwork for Worlds real quick? And he texted me right back and he's like, hey champ, I'm looking for a printer now. As soon as I find one, I'll sign this. And I was just thinking, fuck, I don't even know who's got a printer. I don't even have a printer in my fucking house. Like, if Hickson's looking for a printer, I think he just told me no. You know what I mean?

• 2:52:53Joe Rogan?

  Right, right, right.

• 2:52:54Speaker 02

  Like, fuck. And then like a couple of days later, he, he sent it back to me signed, right? I think probably his wife was like, oh Hickson, yeah, like, you know what I mean? Like, I just, I just didn't think, I think he kinda didn't know. But he got back to me and then they sent me, I had to do this a few times. And then I was the only guy, I'm the only belted guy fighting under Hickson in Masters right now. Yeah.

• 2:53:16Joe Rogan?

  That's pretty fucking cool.

• 2:53:17Speaker 02

  Yeah. And then, uh, I would say this for jiu jitsu for me is like, I'm so glad it is where it is these days. Cause back in the day, I mean, think about this. Back in the day, I travel all the time. I'm in a different dojo fucking weekly. You know, I might be here for four days. I try to get three days of jits. I'm in fucking Waco. I'm going to fucking places. I've been in 26 different dojos this year, like doing jits. Back in the day, that was fucking criante. You know what I mean? Fucking monsters in Portuguese, right? Because you don't have no loyalty. You don't have no fucking, and the reality is like, yeah, I'm just never home.

• 2:53:54Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:53:54Speaker 02

  I don't want to be unloyal to anybody. I'm loyal to everybody, but I just want to get rounds. And I'm so glad the jujitsu world is so fucking welcoming these days, meaning like, like, I don't have to show up and fight.

• 2:54:08Joe Rogan?

  Right, much more open minded. They're happy to welcome people from other schools.

• 2:54:11Speaker 02

  The only, the only, the only person that was like, why are you here was Cyborg at Fight Sports.

• 2:54:18Joe Rogan?

  Oh, really?

• 2:54:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, you know Cyborg?

• 2:54:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, sure.

• 2:54:20Speaker 02

  Uh, he's great. And you know, you know Roosevelt?

• 2:54:22Joe Rogan?

  He's a fucking savage.

• 2:54:23Speaker 02

  You know Roosevelt, the tall guy that hangs out with him?

• 2:54:25Joe Rogan?

  I don't.

• 2:54:26Speaker 02

  Tallest black belt I ever seen, tallest Brazilian I ever seen, right? So, he's one of the black belts down there with, uh, with, with Cyborg. And, um, I'm out there and I'm like, at the time I was blue belt, you know what I mean? And I was probably, I don't know, 250, I was kind of fat. And like Fight Sports is like old school Brazilian jujitsu where we're going to shrimp across the mat. We do fucking all this. I don't give a fuck if you're losing jujitsu today, but you're going to be tough.

• 2:54:54Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:54:54Speaker 02

  So, it's that kind of shit and...

• 2:54:56Joe Rogan?

  That's how Carlson Gracie's was.

• 2:54:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:54:58Joe Rogan?

  Before you even got to the class, you were fucking exhausted.

• 2:55:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, the class hasn't started yet, right? So, I'm out on the mat, I'm breathing hard, I'm just kind of doing my thing. And Roosevelt, the big tall black belt comes over and he was like, man, he's like, you are my inspiration. I'm like, I am coach? I'm your inspiration? He's like, yes. He's like, you are out here, you are doing this, man. He was like, you are everyone's inspiration. And I'm looking around and like, everyone's rolling, like, and then, and then like everyone stops because like he's talking to me, you know what I mean? And like now everyone's looking at me and I'm like, what in the fuck is going on, right? So, he was like, you are here, you are doing this, you are old, you are my inspiration. And I'm like, thanks, coach.

• 2:55:44Speaker 02

  I was like, and then like, I didn't need a break, but I was like, fuck, after that talk, maybe I do need a break. So, I was like, maybe I do need a break, coach. And he was like, okay, fix your gi. So, I fixed my gi, I tied my belt. He's like, run laps around the practice until you're ready to practice again. It was like, man, that's fucking worse. I wasn't, I didn't even need the fucking... Break and he gave me the old speech, so I agreed and then like, and then I had a run. I thought that was more embarrassing running laps around everybody, right? But like, like when he said he wanted to give me a break, like the fucking breaks. It was like screech to a hall. Everybody was like, did he just say, like, does that guy? Why the fuck does that guy get a break? You know what I mean?

• 2:56:23Joe Rogan?

  Your break was do laps?

• 2:56:24Speaker 02

  Yeah. And yeah, and then then Cyborg came up to me and um, they didn't. I didn't have a gi yet. I hadn't bought a gi and I hadn't found a gi that fit me. So I had, I just bought a gi, but I only had a white belt, right? I oh, I got the gi at Gracie Raleigh, my home dojo, right? Uh, and then they only had a white belt, so I had a white belt. So I was white belting it, but really I was a blue belt. So, and when it came to Roland, Cyborg is like, who are you, man? I'm like, coach? And he's like, who are you, man? Who are you?

• 2:56:55Joe Rogan?

  He thought you were like a spy?

• 2:56:56Speaker 02

  Yeah. He's like, why are you here? And I'm like, I just, I just, well, my brother lives here, coach. And I called ahead of time and I asked if I could come do jujitsu. I'm just trying to get a couple of days while I'm on the road. He's like, man, you are no white belt. Who are you? What are you doing here? And I was like, well, I'm actually a blue belt coach. And he was like, why didn't you? And then I got a wall of like old belts, which is like the coolest thing I've ever fucking seen. Like a hundred, just old, different, all kinds of belts. It's fucking cool as fuck, in my opinion, but he was like, why didn't you get one off the extra belt? And I was like, well, you didn't have one, coach. And he, he thinks for a second, he was like, you are right. There's not one your size on the wall. And I was like, holy fuck, there's a ton of belts there for him to even know that.

• 2:57:40Speaker 02

  Like, cause I went through all of them and couldn't fit one, you know? And uh, he was like, okay.

• 2:57:44Joe Rogan?

  So he was just concerned that you were sandbagging or trying to get information?

• 2:57:48Speaker 02

  I don't know. Yeah. And then, but they were great with me, like shout out to Cyborg and Roosevelt.

• 2:57:53Joe Rogan?

  Hard dudes.

• 2:57:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, they're fucking, they're hard down there.

• 2:57:56Joe Rogan?

  Back in Rojo, all those guys down there.

• 2:57:58Speaker 02

  But I've been in 26, I think 26 dojos this year, man.

• 2:58:01Joe Rogan?

  That's wild.

• 2:58:02Speaker 02

  And then.

• 2:58:02Joe Rogan?

  So you're all in?

• 2:58:03Speaker 02

  I'm all in, man. I'm in, I'm in all the time. And then like, so one of the things is like, I can only go to Hickson to get promoted because I'm never in one do- dojo long enough.

• 2:58:13Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:58:14Speaker 02

  To like earn, earn a stripe or earn a... So I, I think it's like a, I don't know. I feel like I'm fortunate of where I am. Um, you know what I mean? And then honestly, the reason I went to Hickson is because I could. Yeah. And I figured if, if I need to be tested for a belt.

• 2:58:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:58:33Speaker 02

  Like, who else should test me? You know what I mean?

• 2:58:35Joe Rogan?

  When you get your black belt, you get a black belt from Hickson. It's like, there's very few black belts that hold that kind of weight. You know, there's like Henzo, Hickson.

• 2:58:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:58:43Joe Rogan?

  Jean Jacques Machado. There's a few of those like, old school legendary belts.

• 2:58:48Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah, fuck yeah.

• 2:58:50Joe Rogan?

  Megaton Diaz. It's like a few of those legendary, old school belts, you know?

• 2:58:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, fucking Heegan.

• 2:58:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, Heegan. Yeah, yeah, I love Heegan.

• 2:58:59Speaker 02

  I know, I love.

• 2:59:00Joe Rogan?

  I actually was Heegan's, uh, um, corner guy when he was in Abu Dhabi in 2003. I was

• 2:59:06Speaker 02

  You were?

• 2:59:06Joe Rogan?

  yelling his timeout. Yeah, because I was there with Eddie Bravo.

• 2:59:09Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, that's right, that's right.

• 2:59:10Joe Rogan?

  We all trained at the Machados, so I know Heegan. And then Heegan's like, "My friend, do, do the time for me." And so like, he was like, he was kind of out of shape, but he's still fucking people up. But he wanted to know, like, "Give me, tell me when there's like a minute to go, so I can really fucking hit the gas." Like, I'm on the coast for a little bit, and then decide when to go.

• 2:59:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, I love, I, I call it like, I call it fat guy jujitsu, and I think people are shocked when I say that term, but really, it's, it's like the, I don't know, the Danaher ageless stuff. There's, there's stuff that bigger guys, less athletic,

• 2:59:45Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:59:45Speaker 02

  are gonna have to do because they can't do a flying whatever. They can't, you know what I mean? And like, I love his Smash game, and I, uh, so, I was at a, I went to the Machado camp. It was him, Roger, Carlos, and John. Oh, John Machado, I love that guy too. You know John?

• 3:00:02Joe Rogan?

  Sure.

• 3:00:03Speaker 02

  Uh, he carries, he carries condom holsters.

• 3:00:05Joe Rogan?

  Nice.

• 3:00:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, he's great, man. Um, but I went to their summer camp, and I was like, "Hey, Heegan, can I get a picture?" And like, he was sitting on the couch, and Carlos is like, you know, typical bigger brother shit. "Get the fuck up, you're lazy," kind of dogging him. So I was like, I was like, "You don't have to get up, coach." So I sat on his lap, and he was like, "What the fuck?"

• 3:00:26Joe Rogan?

  That's hilarious.

• 3:00:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, I went to a Machado camp this year. I spent a lot of time with Rafael Lovato.

• 3:00:32Joe Rogan?

  I love that dude.

• 3:00:33Speaker 02

  That guy's a fucking legend.

• 3:00:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he is. He is.

• 3:00:36Speaker 02

  I got invited to Felipe Acosta's kind of affiliate training with Rafael. Like, shout out to Rafael. He's a fucking amazing. Every one of his black belts gave me time. Like, and then Felipe Acosta, like, just fucking next level, man. And, like, it gives me hope as an old guy. Like, I know I'm 55, and I know I want to win the fucking 55-year-old bracket. But why the fuck do I need to be in the 55-year-old bracket? You know what I mean? If my jiu-jitsu is good enough, I should be able to fight anyone, right? And that's what gives me hope of fucking carrying on that one day, like, because, you know, all I do is fight these young guys. And, yeah, sure, they beat me right now, but like, you know, how many times did Helio get crushed?

• 3:01:21Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 3:01:22Speaker 02

  You know what I'm saying? So like, it's the beauty of jiu-jitsu is the age should be fucking the least in this equation. You know what I mean? So that's kind of where I stand. And I'll tell you, man, anytime someone can fucking put it to me where I'm about to go down, I couldn't be fucking happier, man. I had this black belt the other day, out of nowhere, just fucking smashed me. And like, and then he lets, I tap, he lets me up, and I just got the biggest smile on my face. And he was like, looking at me, and I was like, that was fucking amazing, coach. I was like, you ain't never smashed me like that, right? And he, he just kind of looking at me and just fucking tackled him again, you know what I mean?

• 3:02:03Speaker 02

  Fucking went right back to smashing me, you know what I mean? Like, I just fucking love it, man, yeah.

• 3:02:08Joe Rogan?

  That's the best attitude for learning. There's no better.

• 3:02:10Speaker 02

  Well, I, as a human being, I need to learn something every day. I think you're the same way in a lot of ways. Like, I don't care what it is.

• 3:02:17Joe Rogan?

  I think it's good for you.

• 3:02:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, I do too. I think it keeps your brain healthy.

• 3:02:20Joe Rogan?

  100%.

• 3:02:21Speaker 02

  I think it keeps Alzheimer, fucking all that bullshit away.

• 3:02:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I think that's why people get old. It's one of the reasons, other than your body failing, is your mind gets old.

• 3:02:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:02:30Joe Rogan?

  You're not stimulating it.

• 3:02:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, for real, right?

• 3:02:33Joe Rogan?

  John, this is a fucking awesome conversation.

• 3:02:35Speaker 02

  Thanks, man.

• 3:02:35Joe Rogan?

  I really appreciate it. I had a great time.

• 3:02:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, thank you.

• 3:02:38Joe Rogan?

  And I can't wait to read your book.

• 3:02:39Speaker 02

  So, okay. I'm gonna get some rounds in the future when you're healthy?

• 3:02:43Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 3:02:44Speaker 02

  Alright, I'd love to get some rounds with you.

• 3:02:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, for sure.

• 3:02:47Speaker 02

  Uh, I definitely wanna come back, like, Kill Tony last night, fucking amazing. It's like bucket list for me.

• 3:02:53Joe Rogan?

  You can come to the club anytime you want.

• 3:02:54Speaker 02

  Man, I couldn't thank you enough, like, uh, I know I came here yesterday, not a big deal to me, right? Cause like, yo, I got Kill Tony out of this deal, like, uh, last night was fucking funny, man. This guy told a joke last night, the funniest fucking joke I think I ever heard in my life. I don't know if I could say it or not.

• 3:03:13Joe Rogan?

  Who was it? Which guy? What did he look like?

• 3:03:15Speaker 02

  There was a guy, just kinda a shorter guy, uh, white guy, beard, and he just read jokes, he just said like random jokes.

• 3:03:23Joe Rogan?

  Oh, was one of the bu- bucket pulls?

• 3:03:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, he was a bucket pull guy.

• 3:03:27Joe Rogan?

  Oh, okay.

• 3:03:27Speaker 02

  And then like, he said this joke, you wanna hear it?

• 3:03:29Joe Rogan?

  Sure.

• 3:03:30Speaker 02

  Okay. This is the fucking funniest thing I've heard in a long time. Uh, why don't police have turtles as pets?

• 3:03:40Joe Rogan?

  Why?

• 3:03:40Speaker 02

  Cause you can't kneel on their neck.

• 3:03:46Speaker 02

  I was like, oh my fucking god, like, next level right there.

• 3:03:52Joe Rogan?

  Well, listen, brother, anytime you wanna come to the club, more than welcome. Thank you very much for being here.

• 3:03:56Speaker 02

  Oh, man, anytime, man.

• 3:03:57Joe Rogan?

  It was a great conversation. I really enjoyed it. Thanks for all the swag. Thanks for letting me hold the evil hat.

• 3:04:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, well, I gotta put it back in its box.

• 3:04:04Joe Rogan?

  Uh, if people wanna find you online, sheriffabagdad.com.

• 3:04:07Speaker 02

  Sheriff of Baghdad, SOB Tactical, either one will get you to me, like, you just, you die, you, you type in Sheriff of Baghdad and a ton of shit of me pops up.

• 3:04:16Joe Rogan?

  And someone, whoever the publisher is, pop on it.

• 3:04:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, hit me up.

• 3:04:21Joe Rogan?

  I'm sure that book's insane. Alright, thank you very much, brother, appreciate you. Alright, bye, everybody.