The Aggro Lions, the Sleeper-ish Hawks, Million-Dollar Picks, and Jesse Ventura on His Surprise WWE Return

The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Joe House to discuss the Lions surviving the Packers on 'TNF,' talk through the NFL weekend slate, and make the Million-Dollar Picks for Week 14 (2:35), before looking at the updated NBA win totals, "make the playoffs" bets, likely trade teams, and more (44:44). Then, Bill talks with Jesse "The Body" Ventura about his return to WWE broadcasting, his rocky exit from pro wrestling, filming 'Predator' and 'Running Man,' his political career as a mayor and later governor of Minnesota, and much more (1:11:36). Host: Bill Simmons Guests: Joe House and Jesse Ventura Producer: Kyle Crichton The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Bill Simmons?

  Coming up, Lions-Packers, football, basketball, and Jesse the Body Ventura, all next. This episode is brought to you by Uber Eats. It's football season. Uber Eats is delivering deals every game day. This week, get 10 free boneless wings from Wingstop on qualifying orders. Game on, flavor on, Wingstop is here. So if your fantasy league is coming over for some in-person smack talk, order Wingstop on Uber Eats and get 10 boneless wings free. It's the perfect way to keep everyone fed tonight so you can focus on the game. No matter who scores big tonight, you'll score a great deal. Order now and get 10 boneless wings free from Wingstop, only on Uber Eats. Offer valid from September 14th to September 27th, and from November 2nd to November 16th. Order minimum before taxes and fees is required.

• 0:46Bill Simmons?

  See retailer's storefront for details. Taxes, fees, and terms apply. Product availability varies by region. Exclusions may apply. See app for details. This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Excitement is in the air. That's right. It's the start of NBA season. I can't wait to get together with friends, share some Michelob Ultras, and watch Tip Off. Plus, as the official beer sponsor of the NBA, Michelob Ultra is getting you closer to the action with experiences that make you feel like you're courtside to actual courtside tickets. Enter now for a chance to win at michelobultra.com/courtside. Michelob Ultra Courtside 26 to 27. No purchase necessary. Open to U.S. residents 21-plus. Begins on October 1st, 2026. Ends on June 30th, 2027. Multiple entry periods.

• 1:31Bill Simmons?

  See official rules at michelobultra.com/courtside for free entry, entry deadlines, prizes, and details. We're also brought to you by The Ringer Podcast Network, where the season finale of Truthless just dropped. It's a storytelling pod about the lies people tell, hosted by Brian Phillips. You can binge all of the episodes. Go check that out. You can check out the live show I did with Brian Rusillo in Denver on Wednesday night, which is now available on my YouTube channel, the Bill Simmons channel. And we had a great time. I love Denver. Thanks for having us. Got to see Jokic. Great times. Really fun podcast, too. New rewatchable is coming on Monday night. It's a movie from the 90s. I'll tell you what it is on Sunday. Kind of a controversial movie. Little controversial.

• 2:12Bill Simmons?

  Anyway, FanDuel is still gonna do 30-on-30 score bets, even though the NBA Cup is now over. We're gonna keep it going. The 30-on-30 Profit Boost Token. You can boost any 30-point score you want. I tweet out my picks on Fridays. I've been red hot. I hit, I hit my long shot picks two weeks in a row. I post like five guys that I like and I think I went three for five, two, two for five. I hit a 12 to one. I had a plus 700. But you can be sure to claim the PBD and place your 30 on 30 bet for Friday. Look for it on the FanDuel Sportsbook app. On this podcast, Joe House and I are going to react to a fantastic Lions Packers game. We do million dollar picks. We do some NBA future stuff because I was trapped

• 2:55Bill Simmons?

  on a plane in Denver, frantically making future bets on FanDuel and there were some that really jumped at. And so we're going to talk about NBA as well. And then Jesse the Body Ventura is going to come on for the first time ever to talk about his comeback. Yeah, his comeback to WWE. Plus, we had to talk Predator. We had to talk Running Man. We had to talk about a whole bunch of stuff. Really fun. He did a lot of the talking. I'm just going to tell you now. I had a great time. So that's the pod. Let's bring in our friends. Not from Yacht Rock, which is still available, by the way, on Max. We did really well. It was like in the top four on Max for like five, six days in a row. Got some great feedback too. Everybody really seems like they

• 3:40Bill Simmons?

  liked it. So check out Yacht Rock on Max. Not our friends from Yacht Rock. Our friends from Pearl Jam.

• 4:06Bill Simmons?

  All right, we're taping this right after the Lions Packers game. It is 8:37 Pacific time. We were hoping that would be a really good game. It seemed like it was going to be a really good game. And then it was a really good game. And even better.

• 4:20Bill Simmons?

  Packers plus three and a half covered. My adjusted Packers plus four and a half with with love 200 plus passing yards. That covered one of my first million dollar pick already.

• 4:30Bill Simmons?

  Detroit had the ball 36 minutes house. They had 280 yards passing. They outgained the the Packers by over 100 yards and felt like they dominated the game. And yet, I kind of feel like the Packers blew it. They had the ball first down after that long completion over the middle. And they were inside the 20 and then they all of a sudden they just kind of and they're settling for a field goal. And I really feel like they had it.

• 4:59Speaker 01

  Well, it was it was first and goal and there was to me a very suspicious pass interference, offensive pass interference call that pushed them way back. Yeah, it didn't. I mean, the number of times that occurs in a football game and it goes uncalled and they were inside of, it happened like virtually at the line of scrimmage.

• 5:20Bill Simmons?

  So are you wait a second, are you giving me? You think that we are headed toward a Lions Bills conspiracy Super Bowl? The two losers, somebody has to win. This is Goodell has now ordered that in.

• 5:33Speaker 01

  Not only I love that and you know, who especially loves it is Cousin Sal. Cause I think that was his prediction for

• 5:38Bill Simmons?

  I think it was.

• 5:39Speaker 01

  The the Super Bowl matchup for this season. I I like, look, I I'm not gonna, um, you know, say bad things about it. Detroit is an A side team now. Detroit gets A side calls.

• 5:52Bill Simmons?

  Well, explain that because that's a Rahim phrase that you guys don't ring your gambling show. For my audience, they might not know what that is, but it's Rahim's best thing.

• 6:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:01Bill Simmons?

  It's like his best theory. I love it, but explain the A side.

• 6:04Speaker 01

  I'll try and do it. It's it's when you've achieved a certain status when you have and and the the best example of it in the NFL is the Chiefs, where every week it feels like every call that might go their way does go their way. Every ball that bounces seems to find the hands of of the team that is the A side team. I think it's it's basically that concept.

• 6:25Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, it's like the it's a Monday night game. Somebody's getting three and a half in their home and you could just tell in the first quarter, the calls are going their way and it's like, oh, they're the A side today. It's a good one. LeBron's been the A side in the NBA for like 15 years. The Warriors had a few A-side runs on their end too, but it's, it's a good theory.

• 6:48Bill Simmons?

  But yeah, I felt like considering that Love had 31 yards at halftime, they seemed completely blindsided by how good the, the Lions defense looked in that, that first drive when they were just flying in and hounding them. And then they found something with the run game. Then they started taking shots deep and it felt like by the time we're in the fourth quarter, it actually felt like the Packers were a slightly better team. And then they just couldn't, couldn't hold the Lions off. They got that fourth, that big fourth down stop. And uh, if I'm the Packers, I'm feeling good. I can play with that team. I can go in there in the playoffs in January and I can hang with that team and I, I'm not like losing sleep. You're going to be the wild card anyway.

• 7:29Speaker 01

  The entirety of that fourth quarter felt to me like whichever team has the ball last is going to win the football game, which is a testament to, you know, the, the matchup. But I just want to be clear. I know that I said the A-side thing about that dubious pass interference call. There was a holding call on Detroit in that last drive. That was also ticky tack. Felt a little makeup-y and to Detroit's credit, they overcame that, went right down the field. You know, crazy Dan Campbell goes for it on a fourth down that, you know, had Jared Goff falling over because he gets his foot stepped on by a lineman. They still get the yards. They still, you know, are able to just clinch the game that way.

• 8:12Speaker 01

  But that's the way it goes when you, when your things are running in your favor.

• 8:16Bill Simmons?

  On the nine text threads I was on during this game, most people thought Campbell was a lunatic. I actually liked it and it goes to what you said a minute ago. It started to feel like whoever had the ball last game. And he was gonna, if you kick a field goal there, Love gets the ball on his own 30 with 43 seconds left. And I feel like they would have been able to go down the field and get in the field goal range. So, you know, it's fourth and inches. They didn't get it earlier. To me, a lot of these times. I like when the Lions go for it. There's other situations where I hate it like, you know, like the Jaguars, you know, when you can't really block and you have Trevor Lawrence and, you know, I, I just am not confident you're getting it on fourth and two or fourth and four.

• 9:00Bill Simmons?

  There's a bunch of teams like that. With them, I like when they, the play that they didn't get it, that Gibbs like pitch out play. I didn't like the play. I like that they went for it, but just you have this huge offensive line, just run behind it and push forward. And it seems like teams always get into trouble when they try to get tricky, you know, and they try to out-trick themselves a bunch of times in this game, which is why the Packers were able to hang around.

• 9:22Speaker 01

  The thing that you said in our text thread, I think early in the second half, it did indeed feel like the Lions could get 10 to 15 yards passing the football anytime they wanted it. And they ran really sharp plays in the red zone. Both times, fourth down, those touchdowns that they got were really sharp play calls. Ben Johnson in his bag, BS.

• 9:46Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, the, Goff was 32 for 41 for 283. He had one bad pass. He stared the guy down through a pick. But they ran the ball. Montgomery and Gibbs were 29 for 94. I think what, they were only 3.6 for Montgomery, 2.9 for Gibbs. But I think the reason they're trying to run the ball, I think they were trying to shorten the game.

• 10:05Speaker 01

  I agree.

• 10:06Bill Simmons?

  They didn't trust the defense, right?

• 10:07Speaker 01

  Totally agree. Yes.

• 10:08Bill Simmons?

  And so it just felt like, I like when the Lions play with pace because they have so many weapons, but I guess they feel like they can't do that anymore because it's such a Patrick defense. But you know, a lot of people, a lot of people writing online, people on pods have been making the same point that this whole conference feels like it's shifting toward Philly a little bit, you know? Like I heard Lombardi today talking about, he really feels like Philly, they have the second best odds to win the NFC, but you know, Philly's in a great spot, whether they're the one seed or the two seed, the way their defense is playing.

• 10:44Bill Simmons?

  To me, the NFC feels way more wide open than it did a couple of weeks ago and it's because of the Detroit injuries. Their defense isn't the same.

• 10:51Speaker 01

  Right. Yeah. I mean, wide open means what?

• 10:54Bill Simmons?

  Three teams.

• 10:55Speaker 01

  Three, okay, fair enough.

• 10:58Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, but I thought there was a point about four weeks ago when it just seemed like Detroit was almost like I'd bet anything they're gonna make the Super Bowl. This just seems like the dominant NFC team. I just love the way they're playing. Even after the Hutchinson injury, it's still felt pretty great. So I'm Fanduel right now. They have the conference stuff. Detroit's plus 140, Philly's plus 250, and the Packers are 8 to 1. Vikings are plus 950. And we're gonna talk about them later on Million Dollar Picks, but there's some, some pretty interesting defensive stats with them that are not encouraging. Other than that, I don't see anyone else. So it's those three in the NFC, but I feel like the Packers, I think they could go into Detroit and hang. Philly would be a little tougher because

• 11:43Bill Simmons?

  of the Philly defense.

• 11:45Speaker 01

  Well, and Philly also.

• 11:46Bill Simmons?

  And we need to know when J.R. Alexander comes back is the other thing.

• 11:48Speaker 01

  That's right. That's gonna be huge for Green Bay. The Philly thing, the Philly advantage that they have is their own ability to, to just, you know, shrink the clock and run the ball, especially in the second half of these games now.

• 12:04Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, they're good. It's interesting. Detroit has probably been on TV the most this year, other than maybe KC, right? It's those two, but I feel like Detroit, I feel like I've seen almost all of their games.

• 12:18Speaker 01

  Well, sadly, we've, we've seen way too much of the mother effing Jets. I mean, the Jets shoot them straight into the sun.

• 12:25Bill Simmons?

  But that's my point. Usually, like, the NBA's in this situation now. They have just a shitload of Laker games left. They barely have any Cleveland games. They barely have any Oklahoma City games. And a lot of times, like, the most televised teams, it turns out to be disappointing. I love watching Detroit.

• 12:42Speaker 01

  So do I.

• 12:43Bill Simmons?

  And I have, I have fantasy guys from them in different leagues, and I'm sure that's part of it. I have the one seed bet with them. I have their over, all kinds of stuff, but I just think they're really entertaining offensively. Like, about as entertaining of an offense as we've seen in a while. And then, the big thing that they added that they just didn't have in the first two months was this Tim Patrick.

• 13:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:06Bill Simmons?

  Who I always thought was good on the Broncos. He got hurt. And he was healthy in preseason and I, I guess, uh, I guess, uh, Peyton, just like the other receivers, let him go and he's the third receiver that the Lions have kind of been dying for. Like he had a couple of really big catches today, but I, I think I, they just have playmakers everywhere.

• 13:25Speaker 01

  Everywhere.

• 13:26Bill Simmons?

  I always feel like that Packers didn't get that thing, tie game, four minutes left. And it's like, fuck, you guys probably lost. I don't think you're stopping the Lions. I think they're going to get in the field goal range and win the game. Like, didn't you have that feeling?

• 13:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, of course. Yes. The only thing that put it into doubt at all was, uh, crazy Dan Campbell going for it on that fourth down.

• 13:47Bill Simmons?

  Well, I wonder. I, I mean, I wonder like the pie chart of that decision-making. Where they didn't get it before. And I do think there's like a

• 13:59Bill Simmons?

  attitude piece to when he's been doing this for three years, right?

• 14:02Speaker 01

  No doubt, no doubt.

• 14:03Bill Simmons?

  And it's like, if I go for it here and we get it, I kind of win our swagger back. If I kick the field goal combined with us not getting it before, our swagger's in like a tiny bit of a question and I, you know, he's just aggro. That's who he is.

• 14:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's true. And, and I do wonder, it can't be part of the affirmative calculation when he's sitting there making the decision. But there is got to be something in terms of the identity, like this is who we are. This is what we do.

• 14:29Bill Simmons?

  We have to do it.

• 14:30Speaker 01

  We, we, we don't waver from it. We can't waver from our identity. This is who we, we plow ahead. We plow ahead. And it did have the desired outcome, which was not giving the Green Bay Packers the football back.

• 14:42Bill Simmons?

  The nerds didn't like it. It was like, I think 4% probability was better if they just kicked it for winning the game, which I was surprised by.

• 14:50Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 14:51Bill Simmons?

  But I liked it. I thought, I thought they were going to get it. I always judge the stuff by, do I think they're going to get it? If I'm like, I was, you know, obviously root for the Packers with the plus points and,

• 15:02Bill Simmons?

  hoping that the Lions would kick the field goal and really worried that not only were they going to get it, but they were going to be the thing where they like break through and get the touchdown. And I don't know, it's just the whole thing made me nervous. So, is that, are the Lions still the best team to you?

• 15:16Speaker 01

  Sure. Yes. Yes. I mean,

• 15:20Speaker 01

  We're going to see Kansas City this coming week and I feel like we were gonna, we're due for a Kansas City statement game and it might be this weekend. It might be this weekend.

• 15:32Bill Simmons?

  Well, that's nice to move into million dollar picks because we had KC down as as one of the possibilities. Casey, the Lions finally adjusted to back up what we've been watching week after week where they haven't been covering any of these games and they've been pulling wins out of their ass. And every week the Lions have been three to eight points too high for them.

• 15:54Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 15:55Bill Simmons?

  And FanDuel and everybody else who makes lines finally had enough of it and they made them three and a half point favorites. At home against the Chargers on a Sunday night that don't have J K Dobbins. That uh, McConkey's hurt and like we'll see tomorrow on Friday. Usually the guy doesn't practice on Friday. It's usually a bad sign for playing.

• 16:17Speaker 01

  Right.

• 16:17Bill Simmons?

  He's been like their big play guy every third.

• 16:20Speaker 01

  The only play guy.

• 16:21Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Um, and I would have thought the line would be maybe six and a half.

• 16:26Speaker 01

  Me, I was gonna say six.

• 16:28Bill Simmons?

  All the oddsmakers were like, nope, we've had it with the Chiefs.

• 16:31Speaker 01

  Well, you know why? The Chiefs are on a six game against the spread losing streak.

• 16:38Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 16:38Speaker 01

  Incredible for a team with their winning percentage. If you look at the history, there's some great numbers out there. Action Network team was doing it. Some incredible numbers about a team with their winning percentage being on an oh and six against the spread streak.

• 16:52Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. And even if you look at their last, their last five, their last six wins. Beat the Niners by 10. That turns out to be congratulations. Vegas by seven, Tampa by six, Denver by two, Carolina by three, Vegas by two. They beat Vegas twice by nine points combined. And I think the the oddsmakers have just had it and they're like, you know what? So to me, it's a huge gambling opportunity because I don't love the hook, but it does allow us to use their money line. And start combining it with stuff. But you know, the big thing for me with the matchup is just.

• 17:32Bill Simmons?

  I A, not sure about the Chargers at all. Their best wins is, I like them. I've enjoyed betting on them. I have them to make the playoffs like. They're they're better than a good bad team. I'm not sure they're a good team. Their best two wins were Denver by seven and Atlanta by four. Denver's the only team with a winning record they've beaten.

• 17:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:51Bill Simmons?

  KC's defense, third against the run.

• 17:55Bill Simmons?

  Chargers don't have Dobbins. Their run game was non-existent last week. Chiefs at home. Chiefs kinda need to make some sort of statement at some point before we get to January.

• 18:06Speaker 01

  Right.

• 18:06Bill Simmons?

  This just feels like the week.

• 18:09Speaker 01

  I agree. I mean, this is, you know, the, the weakness for Kansas City has been their past defense. Since the cornerback, Jalen Watson got hurt. That was against San Francisco. We've seen a lot of teams get into that secondary, that Kansas City secondary. But the Chargers are so one dimensional now. And look, all credit to Coach Harbaugh.

• 18:34Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 18:35Speaker 01

  Amazing turnaround and they did exactly what they needed to do against stupid Atlanta, which was just hang around, just be on the football field.

• 18:45Bill Simmons?

  Right. Just like Kirk Cousins.

• 18:46Speaker 01

  Win it for them. Serve you up on a, on a Thanksgiving platter. Here you go, guys. We've got some nice leftovers for you. How would you like to win this game? And Herbert and the Chargers accepted openly. But that's not the Chiefs. That's not the Chiefs at home. That's not the Chiefs only laying a little number like this. Patrick Mahomes with laying, you know, under six like this, very good numbers. It's like in the 60 some percent range and they got extra rest, right? They're, they're coming off of that Friday, all the way back around to a nice Sunday. I'm, this is, this could be a Chief smash spot, but it could be a Chief smash spot.

• 19:26Bill Simmons?

  So do you like the minus three and a half or are you liking a money line with somebody else? Cause there's a money line situation that I really like.

• 19:32Speaker 01

  I like it all. I'll just tell you, I like it all. I'm not afraid of any of it.

• 19:36Bill Simmons?

  Okay. The hook scares me just cause they, the, the settling for field goal things. They do have Pacheco back.

• 19:43Speaker 01

  Tell me, tell me how the Chargers scored 20 points.

• 19:46Bill Simmons?

  I know.

• 19:47Speaker 01

  Tell me how.

• 19:49Bill Simmons?

  I know. I'm with you. Um, let's take a break and we'll talk about the rest of the games.

• 19:57Bill Simmons?

  Sometimes in basketball, 30 points could be worth more than 30 points. And now you can get a 30% profit boost with the Ringer with FanDuel's 30 on 30 during Friday's NBA action. Yeah, the Ringer, teaming up with America's number one sportsbook to give you a 30% profit boost when you either pick a player to score more than 30 points or bet on our new exclusive 30 on 30 special markets like any game to have both teams score 30 plus points in the first quarter. I thought it'd be fun. I talked FanDuel into it. I've been tweeting out my picks on Friday. I usually pick five guys, like two relatively close to even guys, and then three longer shots. I've been doing really well in the picks. Last week, I think I went three for five and I hit the long shot for the second straight week. So check out my picks on Friday.

• 20:41Bill Simmons?

  Look for 30 on 30 in the FanDuel Sportsbook app or head to fanduel.com/bs for your chance to score a bigger payout this Friday. Don't miss your chance to find out how much more 30 could be worth with FanDuel's 30 on 30. Must be 21 plus and present in select states or 18 plus and present in DC. Opt-in required. Bonus issued has non-withdrawable profit boost tokens. Restrictions apply, including any token expiration and max wager amount. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Give them a problem, call 880-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. All right, quick break. This episode is brought to you by Fire TV. You ever sit down, ready to watch the game, only to search and scroll endlessly? If so, you need Fire TV. It shows you your live games from your favorite teams all in one place, right on the home screen. No more searching. Just sit down and turn on Fire TV.

• 21:26Bill Simmons?

  Separate subscriptions may be required. Feature and content availability may vary. So, House, on the Ringer Gambling Show today, you were talking about a parlay, and I was listening to it, and I already had it written down. And I texted it to the thread, the Sunday pregame thread, before I heard you actually toss out the parlay, and it was basically the torn Achilles parlay. It was take Minnesota against Atlanta and take Miami against the Jets. Short Cousins, short Rogers. This is, it's like, I think, plus 109, something like that.

• 22:03Speaker 01

  I mean, both of those guys' left legs are shorter, so it makes sense.

• 22:08Bill Simmons?

  And I like the symmetry of it and I, and I was like, I would love to do that. I would love to bet against Kirk Cousins again. And, uh, and obviously Miami at home. I actually think Miami is a little undervalued now because the Packers Thursday night game threw everyone off the scent. But it was cold, cold weather Thursday night. What the fuck do you think was gonna happen? They'd actually played well the weeks before that. So.

• 22:30Speaker 01

  And let's be fair, the, the, the Dolphins offense was up to the challenge.

• 22:35Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 22:35Speaker 01

  The Dolphins defense would have no part of tackling in that under those circumstances.

• 22:39Bill Simmons?

  They didn't want to be there.

• 22:40Speaker 01

  They did not.

• 22:41Bill Simmons?

  And then Atlanta's nine and 19 in their last 28 against the spread, worth mentioning. Atlanta's not good. No, they're, they're six and six. They really could be three and nine, two and 10, a couple of plays. And I was like, I'm gonna do, and it just sounds great. And then I started looking at the Minnesota defensive stats, which I mailed to you. And they're a little alarming and there's something I don't trust about this game. My shit detector is going off because it's really like the make or break game of the season for Atlanta. They're at an impasse with Cousins here. It's Cousins going back to Minnesota. Uh, but I look at Minnesota, they give up 29 in Green Bay, 31 in Detroit, 27 in Chicago, 30 to the Rams.

• 23:23Bill Simmons?

  Last week, Arizona had 406 yards and 25 first downs in them. And really kind of choked the game away. They had the game. They're up 19 and 6. They're in control. And I just don't trust Minnesota and make the counter with just try to do your Kirk Cousins counter and let's talk this out.

• 23:41Speaker 01

  Yeah. So what we've seen from him in virtually every game, except for the games against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, where virtually all of the yardage, all of the positive EPA for the Atlanta offense was generated from the enormous, uh, success that the Falcons offense had against Tampa in, in two games. Over the last three games, Kirk Cousins has this many, I'm holding out, but giant zero touchdown passes. And they were not against great, uh, uh, defenses.

• 24:16Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 24:16Speaker 01

  They were playing, it was against the, the Saints was one of those games. I mean, I'll go back and.

• 24:20Bill Simmons?

  Well, the Chargers have a good defense.

• 24:22Speaker 01

  They had, but it was a short week and a travel week for, for the Chargers. And the Falcons had no problem moving the football up and down the field. They just got to the red zone and puked all over themselves. And Kirk Cousins especially, you know, short arming and short legging and not moving and playing out of pistol. And the guy that is the offensive coordinator for Atlanta, not covering himself in glory. Because we keep having this conversation about the Falcons not putting Kirk Cousins in a tenable position, a tenable situation. They have two incredible running backs. It doesn't matter. They try and set up play action. It doesn't matter.

• 25:01Speaker 01

  Cousins, single-handedly is taking wins away from this team. And it's only going in one direction with him physically. One of the guys in our thread shared that next gen stat. Now, I don't know how long next gen has been around. Is it two years? Is it 20 years?

• 25:20Bill Simmons?

  Is this the mile an hour stat?

• 25:21Speaker 01

  Yes. No quarterback. No, there are no quarterbacks since next gen has been measuring the velocity of passes that's had 20, at least 20 attempts and has not reached 37 miles an hour. And Kirk Cousins came along on Sunday and said, hold my beer, mother effers. I'm right here. And you could see it. I mean, they kept saying, we watched that game.

• 25:45Bill Simmons?

  He had no, he had no push out of his feet at all.

• 25:48Speaker 01

  No push.

• 25:48Bill Simmons?

  Would you want next gen stats to measure your P's since like you were a teenager to now? Miles per hour? Can we have next gen stats in bathrooms?

• 25:57Speaker 01

  Lord, no.

• 25:58Bill Simmons?

  Oh, my P is down to 34 miles an hour.

• 26:01Speaker 01

  I don't want, I don't want anybody measuring my bathroom before.

• 26:05Bill Simmons?

  Any, any sort of streams?

• 26:07Speaker 01

  No.

• 26:08Bill Simmons?

  Well, you compared Cousins to Joe Biden on the, on the Ringer. What, what, what did you say?

• 26:14Speaker 01

  Well, only in the sense that like, when you, when you reach this point physically, it only goes in one direction. That was the point I was trying to make. Like the case that people were trying to make over the summer. Oh, the Joe Biden, he can over, he.

• 26:25Bill Simmons?

  Behind the scenes, he's the sharpest attack.

• 26:29Speaker 01

  There was no overcoming the thing because the thing was he's old and you can't, it only goes in one direction. Every day that goes by, you're one day older. That's where Cousins is right now. It's not that he's in a rough patch. It's not that he's working things out. He's not, you know, he doesn't have the yips. He's not physically able. He's literally physically unable to perform. And that's why going up against a Brian Flores blitz heavy defense.

• 26:54Bill Simmons?

  I know, but the defense hasn't been that good though.

• 26:56Speaker 01

  It's the blitz.

• 26:57Bill Simmons?

  It's the thing. I get it.

• 26:58Speaker 01

  The blitz. It's not the secondary that I'm interested in. It's the blitz. So.

• 27:02Bill Simmons?

  I think I'm gonna, I, I, I see the case. I feel like I got so lucky last week on million dollar picks with the Chargers in that game where they just couldn't do anything and Cousins just single handedly delivered the game to them.

• 27:15Speaker 01

  He did.

• 27:15Bill Simmons?

  That I almost feel like I, I, I don't even want to play with house money with them.

• 27:19Speaker 01

  Fine, fine, fine.

• 27:20Bill Simmons?

  There's, there's another game I like with the, I, like to me, the, the parlay is Miami and Kansas City.

• 27:27Speaker 01

  Fine, great.

• 27:28Bill Simmons?

  The Dolphins, home against the Jets. Sauce Gardner, we're taping this on a Thursday night. It's got a bad hamstring. So he's either gonna be playing hurt or not playing. Either, either scenario awful for the Jets with the speed of the, of Dolphins. Breeze Hall is questionable for the 100th straight week. The Jets are awful. They're one in five on Sundays. They're one in six on the road. Uh, they, oh no, they're one in, they're one in eight on Sundays. One in six on the road. They have three starters out on their offensive line. Their left tackle and their entire right side. Miami's defense sneaky good. Ninth against the run, ninth against the pass.

• 28:07Speaker 01

  Improving, improving.

• 28:08Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. And you look at their, their two losses, right? Two missed a bunch of games there, but the games they've lost with two, they lost to Buffalo twice. They lost to Green Bay. They lost to Arizona. I don't think they're bad.

• 28:19Speaker 01

  Well, you know who likes playing against the Jets? Who I'm ready to get in bed with? To a D's nuts.

• 28:26Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 28:26Speaker 01

  To a D's nuts. Love playing against the Jets. He's three and oh, or straight up or whatever. The numbers are very good. And on top of that, they're home and their offense is so much more comfortable there. All of the precision stuff, the DJ is spinning his home Miami sound.

• 28:46Bill Simmons?

  Mike, you back? Yeah.

• 28:47Speaker 01

  Loves it. He loves spinning those Miami records. He loves the Miami sound.

• 28:50Bill Simmons?

  Oh, I think he's, I think he's breaking out some 45s for this game. Shout out to Lombardi.

• 28:56Speaker 01

  Well, shout out.

• 28:57Bill Simmons?

  I think the DJ went into the attic and pulled some rare selections from the early 90s.

• 29:02Speaker 01

  Well, let me, no, no, I want to ask you, you some yacht rock. I mean, he really.

• 29:07Bill Simmons?

  Oh, maybe he did. Maybe he got inspired by the yacht rock doc. Maybe he went and grabbed some doobies.

• 29:12Speaker 01

  Doesn't it look like he could be in the, in the doc? I'm, I mean.

• 29:14Bill Simmons?

  Well, he definitely could.

• 29:15Speaker 01

  Missed opportunity.

• 29:17Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. The Jets line, I, I just don't see any, they seem like they're, if they're not the worst coached team in the league, they're one of the three or four worst coached teams in the league. They make penalties every week. Rogers clearly just can't wait for the season to be over at this point.

• 29:34Bill Simmons?

  It's just a disaster. So it seems like a great spot.

• 29:36Speaker 01

  It's a great, it's a great, it's a great, uh, parlay leg. It's a great teaser leg. However, you want to put Miami.

• 29:42Bill Simmons?

  Well, Miami, Miami money line, KC money line is plus 109.

• 29:46Speaker 01

  Great, great. I'm in. Done.

• 29:49Bill Simmons?

  We'll mark that one down. The next one, you knew this was coming. If you listen to this podcast, nothing I love more than a team that has fired their coach, who the players were rebelling against than playing the next week. I, it's not a hundred percent, but it feels like it's at least 80. We just hit this with the Saints, which we did not do. You talked me out of it. The fucking clogger came in, won a game outright. You talked me out of it. I'm, I've forgiven you. But, um, but this, this Bears Niners.

• 30:22Speaker 01

  Well, it didn't happen for the Jets. The Jets lost their first game.

• 30:26Bill Simmons?

  No, but they, remember that game though? They, they kind of should have won and then they Jets it up, but they did play better.

• 30:31Speaker 01

  Right. Whatever his name is.

• 30:33Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. The brick.

• 30:34Speaker 01

  Yeah. The brick.

• 30:35Bill Simmons?

  Oh, brick.

• 30:38Bill Simmons?

  I I've watched a few of these Bears games.

• 30:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:41Bill Simmons?

  And they've had some lows, right? They've had some games where they just looked awful.

• 30:47Bill Simmons?

  But.

• 30:47Speaker 01

  Oh, I get your point.

• 30:49Bill Simmons?

  They've also had some pretty good moments and stretches and halves and. And I think they've figured out something with Caleb the last couple of weeks with just having him get rid of the ball faster.

• 31:01Bill Simmons?

  Defense can create some pressure. I don't know. I just think. I think they could win this game. It feels like a three-point game. To me, the the bigger thing is this is a this is a zag against a Niners team that feels like the season is. Going in the wrong direction, not just like not making the playoffs, but like.

• 31:20Bill Simmons?

  Just kind of edging toward, hey, are we sure Kyle Shanahan should be the coach next year?

• 31:24Speaker 01

  Oh, can we do that?

• 31:27Bill Simmons?

  Fans have you talked to? Yeah, that in the Niners fans worlds, there's a lot of Kyle Shanahan. Consternation right now.

• 31:35Speaker 01

  I mean, they literally got what? Two thirds of of a legit game out of McCaffrey over. 13 games.

• 31:45Bill Simmons?

  I'm not saying it's rational. I'm just saying.

• 31:48Speaker 01

  I mean.

• 31:48Bill Simmons?

  You know.

• 31:49Speaker 01

  He's literally the most important player in in the league. Like, he's in the conversation for, you know, offensive player of the league every year that he's healthy. I don't know. Take that guy out of the mix. It it seems like it, but.

• 32:02Bill Simmons?

  And they lose Iuk. Their defense isn't the same.

• 32:06Speaker 01

  No.

• 32:06Bill Simmons?

  We we see this in football every year. With at least one team and sometimes two, the pedigree team. That either just has way too many injuries or gets old. And we just sit there for we I went against the Niners. In that Packers game, like I've I've had. Success going against them, betting against them, because I don't I just. I just don't think they're good. And.

• 32:30Speaker 01

  Didn't Brandon Allen? I mean, that wasn't really going on on a limb with Brandon Allen.

• 32:34Bill Simmons?

  I know, but the but the lines didn't really reflect. Even that.

• 32:38Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 32:38Bill Simmons?

  And then it was like, I I don't know. I just thought the way they were being measured.

• 32:44Bill Simmons?

  They're a past tense team to me is my point.

• 32:46Speaker 01

  Fine, fine, fine.

• 32:47Bill Simmons?

  They're not a present tense team. They're not an arrow pointing up team. I think the Bears can beat them this week and I love the new coach bump.

• 32:54Speaker 01

  The only thing that I'm concerned with is like, when's the last time the Bears won a game on the road?

• 33:01Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 33:01Speaker 01

  It's been, it's been, that was one of the Eberfluss hallmarks, like, oh, go find him on the road and load up against, against the Bears. Cause they just don't.

• 33:11Bill Simmons?

  The thing that worried me looking at the stats was just the Bears run defense has been bad. I think they're like 27th against the run.

• 33:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:18Bill Simmons?

  The Niners are obviously a good running team, but they're, they're down to Isaac Correndo.

• 33:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, their third stringer, right?

• 33:24Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 33:24Speaker 01

  The fantasy darling this week.

• 33:26Bill Simmons?

  And Trent Williams is hurt, might play, might not.

• 33:29Speaker 01

  Right. Yeah, that was the, for, for that Buffalo game, as soon as Williams was out, it was like, oh, I can't have enough Buffalo. Put all the both Buffalo on my plate. That was my Thanksgiving dessert.

• 33:41Bill Simmons?

  So Bears plus three and a half, or Bears in a tease, or Bears adjusted, or Bears money line? What hardened your nipples out of those?

• 33:57Speaker 01

  Well, it depends on what color Caleb's fingernails are, but starting from there. I, I'd like the Bears like in a tease. That's the only thing that makes me feel comfortable. I don't, because the Niners, you know, had two diabolical situations in that Green Bay and Buffalo back to back. And I'm worried that there's like, the, the basic operating function. Now, again, let's see if Trent Williams is playing. That, that'll be a determining factor, but out of all of the options you're giving me, the Bears in it with a tease leg is my favorite.

• 34:31Bill Simmons?

  All right. So what if I gave you the Bears plus eight and a half?

• 34:35Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 34:36Bill Simmons?

  And the Steelers money line against Jameis and the Browns, which is minus 110 on FanDuel.

• 34:42Speaker 01

  There we now are talking. That's a good one.

• 34:44Bill Simmons?

  And that's our bet.

• 34:46Speaker 01

  Love that one. Yes.

• 34:47Bill Simmons?

  So Steelers game, Cleveland has the.

• 34:52Bill Simmons?

  Really tough, exciting game in Denver in altitude on Monday night.

• 34:56Speaker 01

  Magnificent.

• 34:57Bill Simmons?

  Playing six days later against Pittsburgh. In the Denver game, so my buddy Gus Ramsey, huge Denver fan. And he was telling me the D back that was out was gonna have a dramatic effect on the game because the guy that was going in for him.

• 35:09Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 35:10Bill Simmons?

  Could not cover anybody. And he's like, I'm a little nervous about Jameis in this game because we have this guy that I think. And guess what? That guy gave up like 200 yards.

• 35:20Bill Simmons?

  But uh, so I think that's made people think the Browns are a little more explosive than maybe they actually are. So you sent me some Brown stats. The Browns have lost 20 consecutive regular season games in Pittsburgh. Their last win was October 2003 with Tim Couch.

• 35:36Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 35:36Bill Simmons?

  I had been living in LA for less than a year when that happened.

• 35:39Speaker 01

  Shout out, shout out to Evan Williams.

• 35:41Bill Simmons?

  In Mike Tomlin's career with the Steelers, no opposing QB has gone 2-0 against the spread against him in the same season.

• 35:49Speaker 01

  You're straight up against him.

• 35:51Bill Simmons?

  Straight up against him. Yeah. Straight up.

• 35:54Speaker 01

  Straight up.

• 35:54Bill Simmons?

  So Jameis beat him, beat them in that fluky, stupid Thursday snow game.

• 35:59Speaker 01

  Right.

• 35:59Bill Simmons?

  Which had all the makings of a stay away, and then it turned out it was. And

• 36:05Bill Simmons?

  I, I, I continue to think the Steelers team's a little undervalued. I, I actually think this line should be higher than six and a half, but I'm delighted that the money line is only minus 310. And I feel like this is a gift from the gods and we have to put it in somewhere.

• 36:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, I like that a lot. I like the money line just fine over history in these division games. When Pittsburgh has been favored around six, uh, in that neighborhood. It, it doesn't, you know, the, the, uh, underdog division opponent tends to cover. Um, and that's been, you know, sort of the, the Tomlin thing. You, you grab Tomlin and the Steelers when they are underdogs. And you fade them against the spread when they're faves, but this is a situation where we're just looking for the Steelers to win. I don't want to mess around with the points. I mean, the, the, the ceiling and the floor with Jameis are, are, it's, it's like, you know, Mount Everest.

• 36:59Speaker 01

  Uh, you know, the, the variance there. So let's just go ahead and pick the Steelers to win, have that be a leg. And then that, then we can move on with our lives.

• 37:07Bill Simmons?

  So Steelers, you could tease them with the over of 37 and a half, which I wanted to discuss quickly, even though it's December, a little colder. But. The fact that the Browns will not be able to run the ball at all and Nick Chubb, I love Nick Chubb, but it really feels like maybe he should have sat this year out. But they're not gonna be able to run the ball, which means they're gonna throw it a lot, which means the ball is gonna be in play all over the place. Raheem had an incredible stat today

• 37:35Bill Simmons?

  on the, on the gambling show that Jameis actually broke the passing yards record. If you include the 190, whatever interception yards that he had with his own yards. He was like 600 yards.

• 37:47Speaker 01

  680, yeah, nearly 680 combined receiving yards.

• 37:53Bill Simmons?

  But Raheem said that every interception is like, has a five point impact on the spread.

• 37:58Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 37:59Bill Simmons?

  Jameis is good for probably two interceptions in this game. I don't know. It just seems like 37 and a half, lowering that with the Steelers like as a tease. That's another way to go. And then, then we're not relying on the Bears. We like the Steelers that much.

• 38:13Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, it's a danger zone when you start messing with the points in these AFC North games, especially in December. We recognize the risk, but if the weather doesn't look like it has a high chance of precipitation, it looks like it's just gonna be 40 degrees, cloudyish. The wind doesn't look insane. So those are still, because we, we, we think that with Arthur Smith, it's a miracle. They get rid of that bum Matt Canada and all of a sudden they have four games where with both Justin Fields and Russell Wilson, all of a sudden Pittsburgh can, can get, gain 400

• 38:52Speaker 01

  yards on offense all again. It's a, it's a goddamn magic act. Kudos to Arthur Smith for, you know, getting his bag, cooking up some offense. It's fun to watch and is Art, did Arthur Smith, or did he revitalize Russell Wilson's career? Because

• 39:09Bill Simmons?

  There's a whole case of that.

• 39:10Speaker 01

  Russ is cooking.

• 39:12Bill Simmons?

  But you could, you could look at Arthur Smith and just be like, who was the quarterback that he had to work with? Everybody has a quarterback in the Falcons. There's not a starting quarterback in the NFL. I mean, Ritter played a couple of weeks because three guys got hurt, but you know, maybe he was a good coach, just in a bad situation. I don't know what to think, but he's completely reinvigorated Pittsburgh. There's another snare I'm just gonna throw at you, since it seems like we like the Pittsburgh money line, the KC money line and Miami money line the most.

• 39:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:40Bill Simmons?

  You put those three together, that's plus 177 on FanDuel.

• 39:45Speaker 01

  So I wouldn't do a full, you know, allocation like, like you like to do. I wouldn't do a full 200,000 on, on that one. But I mean, that's worth a hundred grand. That's worth 50 grand. It's nearly this, you know, one and three quarters to one. We'd like that.

• 40:02Bill Simmons?

  Minnesota, yes or no?

• 40:04Speaker 01

  I mean, I'm all in on it. It's a smash for me. I love Minnesota. I think they're going to kick the living crap out of Atlanta. There's all kinds of numbers that, uh, about Kirk indoors. He stinks indoors. He's been playing. He had all those cheers in Minnesota, but he's not, he hasn't been good. I mean, there's a lot of, of angles. If you want to fade, uh, Atlanta, but the biggest one is, um, he's, he, it's, it's one-legged cousins.

• 40:31Bill Simmons?

  I really do like the symmetry of the cousins with Rogers T parlay.

• 40:38Speaker 01

  Fade the frauds.

• 40:40Bill Simmons?

  So would you put Steelers with Minnesota or the Bears?

• 40:45Speaker 01

  Uh, definitely Minnesota. Cause I, I mean.

• 40:47Bill Simmons?

  So you know what? I'm going to put Steelers with Minnesota and then if Minnesota blows it.

• 40:51Speaker 01

  It's my fault.

• 40:52Bill Simmons?

  I, I just get to blame you and call you a motherfucker and send you nasty texts.

• 40:57Speaker 01

  You can.

• 40:57Bill Simmons?

  Send you that, send you that, uh, that picture where you click it. You think it's a news link, but it's that guy sitting on the toilet with the huge dong. I'm going to do that to you.

• 41:06Speaker 01

  The pee stream. Send me some pee streams, some next gen pee stream. Yeah.

• 41:10Bill Simmons?

  So we do Steelers bikes. We, we're already up 200K this week. So Steelers bikes. And I'm going to just do the Bears plus three and a half against the Mariners. Cause I think they can.

• 41:20Speaker 01

  You're allowed.

• 41:21Bill Simmons?

  Win that one. All right.

• 41:22Speaker 01

  It's your, it's your money.

• 41:23Bill Simmons?

  All right. Let's do it. Million dollar picks. Week 14. We're already up $200,000. Thanks to the Packers. Covering four and a half and Jordan Love throwing for 200 plus yards. Won $870,000 last week, House.

• 41:37Speaker 01

  It's a good one. Good one.

• 41:38Bill Simmons?

  For the season, we are now 1.413 million dollars. Go back and fucking fact check it. Cause that's the number, baby.

• 41:49Bill Simmons?

  Here we go, million dollar picks, the rest of them, because we're already up 200K.

• 41:54Bill Simmons?

  Miami Dolphins going against Aaron Rodgers, who we can see on Netflix on December 17th in Enigma, which I'll be watching as I, as I pour salt in my eyes.

• 42:06Speaker 01

  I was gonna say, which I won't be watching.

• 42:09Bill Simmons?

  I'm gonna, I'm gonna watch it as, as I drip Tabasco sauce, like it's contact lens solution into my eyeballs.

• 42:15Speaker 01

  Well, Tabasco being, it always makes me think of Gil Bang, but if we're gonna watch.

• 42:19Bill Simmons?

  I'm gonna kill Bang myself.

• 42:21Speaker 01

  If we're gonna watch, then I'm gonna, I'm gonna get Next Gen to watch, I'll be watching with my P stream.

• 42:27Bill Simmons?

  But Miami money line against the Jets with the Kansas City Chiefs money line.

• 42:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:33Bill Simmons?

  Against the Chargers. We cannot figure out how the Chargers are gonna score even 14 points in this game, especially if, if McCauley doesn't play.

• 42:41Speaker 01

  Right.

• 42:42Bill Simmons?

  So Miami KC money line, that is plus 109. House, we're having a good run right now. I'm gonna get a little freaky.

• 42:49Speaker 01

  Let me hear it.

• 42:50Bill Simmons?

  We're putting 250K on that.

• 42:51Speaker 01

  Bang, bang.

• 42:52Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 42:53Speaker 01

  Speaking of, speaking of Gil Bang.

• 42:54Bill Simmons?

  Gil, we're Gil banging that up to 250K. Bears plus three and a half in San Francisco, new coach theory. The Eberfluss thing was so bad that there were reports of he started to speak to the team after the game, and Jalen Johnson, their star cornerback, just interrupted him and started screaming at him that he doesn't understand why the coach, he keeps blah, blah, blah. It sounded awful.

• 43:18Speaker 01

  I feel bad.

• 43:20Bill Simmons?

  Listen.

• 43:21Speaker 01

  I think he's like a decent enough dude, and I also.

• 43:24Bill Simmons?

  He's a good defensive coordinator.

• 43:25Speaker 01

  He will be, he will be. He just had no business being in that job. Like, the whole world knew it. We were making the jokes in the effing summer about the Bears, you have this prized possession, the number one draft pick, don't F it up. And they put this dunce in charge, and he runs it right to the ground, and they wasted a year of this kid's career and his development. Now, here's the redemption story.

• 43:47Bill Simmons?

  Well, they could've gotten Mike Vrabel, they could've gotten Jim Harbaugh, maybe. They, they were real guys to get.

• 43:51Speaker 01

  Do you think they couldn't, they couldn't talk to Belichick? They couldn't talk to him? They couldn't have a conversation with the man?

• 43:56Bill Simmons?

  Same thing with Sala and the Jets.

• 43:59Speaker 01

  But here's the redemption story.

• 43:59Bill Simmons?

  You see these teams hold on to the coach for the extra year when we already know the jig is up.

• 44:05Speaker 01

  Doofy doofusville.

• 44:06Bill Simmons?

  What's the redemption story?

• 44:08Speaker 01

  Thomas Brown, your guy, the new head coach. This week, this is when it starts. We've seen the green sprouts shooting up of Caleb, you know, getting rid of the ball quickly. That offense gets cooking a little.

• 44:20Bill Simmons?

  Team likes him.

• 44:22Speaker 01

  DJ Moore is alive for fantasy football playoff time.

• 44:26Bill Simmons?

  I know. Yeah, so Bears plus three and a half, new coach theory. It's almost a blind for me at this point. You talked me out of it with the clogger and the Saints. I resented you for it. We're doing it here and also a chance to short the Niners. Because to really have a season from hell, you gotta keep losing in December. Like they haven't clinched season for us that you still have to have a couple more losses. So we're gonna do that. And then last but not least, we love the Steelers at home against the Browns.

• 44:58Bill Simmons?

  Just like Jameis coming off Monday night, like I.

• 45:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:01Bill Simmons?

  There he's not beating Tomlin twice in the same season. Steelers need the game.

• 45:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, they really need the game.

• 45:07Bill Simmons?

  Oh, man, oh, we got caught by surprise. We relax like they they need every game. They're trying to win their division and get either the two seed or three seed.

• 45:15Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 45:16Bill Simmons?

  So we're throwing the Steelers in with the Vikings, which you insisted on because they're going against Kirk Cousins.

• 45:21Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 45:21Bill Simmons?

  Who basically died last week and turned into a chalk outline that resembled John Jastremski watching the Miami Dolphins playoff game in my house.

• 45:30Speaker 01

  Well, I think he died like a month ago, but we finally caught on.

• 45:33Bill Simmons?

  We finally realized.

• 45:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:35Bill Simmons?

  I'm just on the record as saying my shit detector was going off with this game. It seems too easy. The Minnesota defense, I think, is a little overrated.

• 45:42Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 45:42Bill Simmons?

  But you talked me into it. Steelers Vikings, it's minus 119 on FanDuel, just that has to win. And we take it, we're putting 200K in that, we're putting 200K on the Bears. Plus three and a half as well. And then you know what else? Just for fun, just for shits and giggles.

• 46:01Speaker 01

  Let's hear it.

• 46:02Bill Simmons?

  Little 50K extra, plus 177. Steelers, Miami, KC, all to win. Little extra.

• 46:11Speaker 01

  We do like it.

• 46:12Bill Simmons?

  Little sprinkling.

• 46:13Speaker 01

  Who F's us? Let's play who F's us on that one.

• 46:16Bill Simmons?

  Not KC, Miami is always worries me just because.

• 46:20Speaker 01

  That is the answer.

• 46:21Bill Simmons?

  The disc jockey and.

• 46:22Speaker 01

  It's true.

• 46:23Bill Simmons?

  Tua taking a hit, who knows?

• 46:24Speaker 01

  One last hurrah.

• 46:26Bill Simmons?

  Anyway, those are the million dollar picks for week 14. We're gonna take one more break and then House and I are gonna talk NBA really quick.

• 46:37Bill Simmons?

  This episode is brought to you by Expedia. You know how at the end of the season, your team goes to Cancun? Sometimes earlier than expected? Sometimes after blowing a 3-1 series lead? But what if you went to Cancun? With Expedia, save up to 30% when you bundle and save. You can book the flight or the hotel now, then book the rest later. In all fairness, though, hopefully, your team doesn't go to Cancun. 1-2-3 Cancun. Or if they do, you go with them. Expedia, the one place you go to go places. Sign in to save, savings vary. This episode of the Bill Simmons Podcast is presented by State Farm. Every football player brings something different to the field. Maybe they have a cannon arm, speed, power. Maybe they have their own podcast. That being said, no two players are exactly alike. And the same is true off the field.

• 47:22Bill Simmons?

  That's why State Farm takes the time to get to know you. So they can help personalize coverage for your life and budget. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. House, quick basketball stuff. I was in Denver for a couple of days with Priscilla. We did a great live show, super fun. Gambling is legal in Denver. I can actually get FanDuel in Denver. And I could make some fun bets, which I did. Including Jordan Love 200-plus yards with the Packers 4.5, which I tweeted out.

• 47:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:58Bill Simmons?

  But there were some future bets. And it got me looking at some of the over-under stuff and to make the playoff stuff.

• 48:05Speaker 01

  For the NBA.

• 48:06Bill Simmons?

  What do you think the Atlanta Hawks' regular season win total is right now on FanDuel? The Hawks are 12-11, they've won five straight.

• 48:14Speaker 01

  43? I didn't look, I haven't looked at it.

• 48:18Bill Simmons?

  It's 38.5, House.

• 48:20Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 48:21Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, yes.

• 48:23Speaker 01

  They have a bunch of high-quality wins over the last 10 days. And we loaded way the F up on them getting to like 41 or 42 games. And I have been... I felt very validated. You know who's playing really effing good and was a key component of the handicap for why Atlanta could be capable of turning the page? Deandre Hunter. Can that dude please stay on the floor? Keep Deandre Hunter healthy. Make sure he's getting his vitamins, getting his sleep. Because he, you know, the Dyson Daniels thing cannot be understated or underrated. The addition of like a proper defense.

• 49:02Bill Simmons?

  Can I just tell you?

• 49:03Speaker 01

  I'll stop. I love Atlanta.

• 49:05Bill Simmons?

  I did Ringer 100. I had Dyson Daniels ahead of Dejounte Murray in the Ringer 100. And he was like 10 to 15 spots ahead.

• 49:13Speaker 01

  So it's your, so, so Atlanta won that trade by.

• 49:17Bill Simmons?

  Atlanta won that trade if it was a straight up. They also got Larry Nance and two first round picks.

• 49:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:23Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. So the Atlanta thing, I was just startled by. So of course I had to bet it. And then I was like, well, I might as well throw some other over unders in there.

• 49:32Speaker 01

  Might as well.

• 49:34Bill Simmons?

  So I did two different bets. What do you think Oklahoma City's over under was heading into tonight?

• 49:40Speaker 01

  Oh, this is fun. I haven't looked. They won tonight. I think it made them 17 and five. Let me guess. I'm going to say 58.

• 49:50Bill Simmons?

  So it's 57 and a half. I threw that in.

• 49:52Speaker 01

  Okay, okay. I did pretty good.

• 49:54Bill Simmons?

  And what do you think the Houston Rockets who are playing as we tape? What do you think their over under was?

• 49:58Speaker 01

  Amazing. I, did we all three of us lock the Houston Rockets over?

• 50:02Bill Simmons?

  No, you, you guys did. I didn't.

• 50:04Speaker 01

  Um, I bet the Rockets are now 46 and a half.

• 50:11Bill Simmons?

  Well, they were 42 and a half when we did it. You and Russel locked it. It was now 50 and a half on.

• 50:16Speaker 01

  Holy moly.

• 50:18Bill Simmons?

  I know. And you guess what else? I bet it anyway. So I did Atlanta, OKC and Houston plus 581 for the overs on that.

• 50:28Speaker 01

  Bang.

• 50:29Bill Simmons?

  Bang. Um, then the other one I did.

• 50:34Bill Simmons?

  I did those three. What do you think Dallas is over under was? They won tonight. And by the way, Dallas has been sneaky contender for the last two weeks. They have rounded into shape.

• 50:45Speaker 01

  They were one of my locks in the preseason and their number was like in the 49 and a half. They weren't even a 50. I bet they're 50 now. I bet they're 50 now.

• 50:52Bill Simmons?

  You did not have them as a lock, but you did have them.

• 50:56Bill Simmons?

  But we, yeah, they were.

• 50:58Speaker 01

  I think they were 49 and a half in the preseason.

• 51:01Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, they're 50 and a half and they're 51 and a half now. So I put that in there.

• 51:06Speaker 01

  Fine.

• 51:08Bill Simmons?

  And then I had to the Lakers. What do you think the Lakers are right now?

• 51:14Speaker 01

  It's gotta be close to what the preseason was. Are they like 43?

• 51:18Bill Simmons?

  44 and a half.

• 51:19Speaker 01

  Okay. So the game, a game and a half.

• 51:21Bill Simmons?

  So before the year, they were 42 and a half.

• 51:23Speaker 01

  Oh, okay.

• 51:24Bill Simmons?

  So 44 and a half. That was the number.

• 51:27Speaker 01

  That's great.

• 51:27Bill Simmons?

  Those five together, Atlanta over, OKC over, Houston over, Lakers under, Dallas over. Was uh, over 22 to one on Fanduel.

• 51:39Speaker 01

  You need to tweet that out.

• 51:40Bill Simmons?

  I put a hundred dollars on that.

• 51:41Speaker 01

  You need to tweet that out. That's like.

• 51:43Bill Simmons?

  I was so happy.

• 51:44Speaker 01

  Go get it.

• 51:45Bill Simmons?

  So the Lakers would have to go 45 and 37 to beat that and they cannot guard anybody.

• 51:50Speaker 01

  Nope, nooo.

• 51:52Bill Simmons?

  Other than your Wizards. So here's another one. I didn't bet this because I couldn't decide whether it was a good line or not. What do you think the Wizards over under was heading into the game today, which they got killed in?

• 52:03Speaker 01

  Oh, amazing. Uh, 14 and a half.

• 52:08Bill Simmons?

  That's what it was.

• 52:09Speaker 01

  Hey, hey, I didn't even look. I swear I didn't look. Yeah.

• 52:13Bill Simmons?

  Well, you didn't look at any of these. You don't have to keep telling us. We believe you. Uh, 14 and a half. And my initial instinct was that's way too high. And then I was like, man, if you win less than 14 and a half games, that's becoming one of the more unsuccessful seasons in the history of the league. So I.

• 52:30Speaker 01

  In the history of the league.

• 52:31Bill Simmons?

  I stayed away. The Celtics were like 62 and a half, which I was surprised by.

• 52:36Bill Simmons?

  So here's the other thing I did. They have a make the playoff bets and I was frantically doing this on the plane before the plane took off.

• 52:46Bill Simmons?

  I'm just gonna ask you if these teams will make the playoffs and you can tell me yes or no. Dallas Mavericks?

• 52:52Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 52:53Bill Simmons?

  Houston Rockets?

• 52:54Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 52:55Bill Simmons?

  Denver Nuggets?

• 52:57Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 52:58Bill Simmons?

  Oh, you paused the same way I did, but yes. So Denver's number was minus 400 to make the playoffs.

• 53:04Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 53:05Bill Simmons?

  Minnesota Timberwolves?

• 53:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, yes, yes, yes, yes.

• 53:10Bill Simmons?

  Phoenix Suns?

• 53:11Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 53:13Bill Simmons?

  Okay, so I thought those five would make it as well. Memphis Grizzlies.

• 53:18Speaker 01

  Awesome story. I honestly think they are going to make the playoffs, yes.

• 53:24Bill Simmons?

  So my thinking was those were the six teams other than OKC. So OKC in those six in the West, and I don't know who's getting the eight spot. You could tell me it's Golden State, you know, like what I,

• 53:37Speaker 01

  Sacramento's not dead.

• 53:41Bill Simmons?

  Those six with Atlanta, what do you think Atlanta's playoff odds were? Atlanta to make the playoffs?

• 53:46Speaker 01

  Like decent. They're gonna make, I think they're gonna make the playoffs.

• 53:48Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, plus 106.

• 53:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:51Bill Simmons?

  So all of those together was over six to one.

• 53:54Speaker 01

  Hmm, okay.

• 53:55Bill Simmons?

  And I was trying to figure out who fucks that up. Dallas, Houston, Denver, Minnesota, Phoenix, Atlanta, or Memphis? Like, the odds would say Atlanta.

• 54:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:04Bill Simmons?

  And yet if you watch Atlanta, I don't know how they're not gonna be a seven or an eight seed.

• 54:09Speaker 01

  In the East.

• 54:09Bill Simmons?

  They can play defense, they try hard every night now. I think their coach likes the team. They trade, they're getting a better version of him than they've had before.

• 54:18Speaker 01

  They kinda got all their injuries. I'm, I'm knock on wood for them, because you know, we're rooting for them, we're invested in them. We feel like they owe us because we did this last season.

• 54:28Bill Simmons?

  They were the, they were the fuck job team for us. We would have had like a legendary year last year with the over-unders and they completely fucked us.

• 54:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I, I wanna knock on wood and say they got most of their injury stuff out of the way at the beginning of the season, hopefully. Because look, the two wins that the Washington Wizards have, back-to-back wins against the Atlanta Hawks.

• 54:50Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 54:51Speaker 01

  Amazing. Only two wins.

• 54:53Bill Simmons?

  And if Atlanta wins those, they're like 14 and 9 right now.

• 54:56Speaker 01

  Right.

• 54:56Bill Simmons?

  But I was looking at the game yesterday. It's like kinda the perfect box score where Capella has 17 rebounds.

• 55:05Bill Simmons?

  Daniel says six assists, three steals. Reese Shea hits a couple of threes. Trey Young's terrible. He's six for 19. And Jalen Johnson has a 23, 13 and 5. And they beat Milwaukee by 15 points when Trey doesn't even play well. To me, that means they're a playoff team.

• 55:22Speaker 01

  And on top of that, you know, when I clicked into that game and saw early on that the Hawks were off a little bit, up by a little bit, it's like, oh, is Giannis not playing? Oh, Giannis was playing. Because Milwaukee is like the poor man's Denver this year to me. They're only competitive if their super duper star is having an extraterrestrial performance. Another triple double, by the way, for the Joker tonight with 20 effing rebounds. But they're not competitive at all in the game. Cleveland just dog walks them the whole game.

• 55:57Bill Simmons?

  You know, I almost bet that when I was in Denver. And I just don't like betting. I just don't like betting against Jokic.

• 56:04Speaker 01

  I will. It's why you took the Denver over in the preseason.

• 56:08Bill Simmons?

  But it was one of those things where it's like, this seems like a horrible matchup for them. Cleveland's just like way better as an all around team. Murray, I watched some of that game. I had that on the small TV as I was watching the football game. Murray just isn't going by guys anymore. And I noticed it in person. Russell and I talked about it on our Denver pod, but he's getting like, he has the guy on his side. But he's not like getting the half step over them. The guy's just next to him and he can't ever really get to where he wants to go. And I think it's a massive, massive, massive concern. I'm very worried about them, House.

• 56:44Speaker 01

  I understand.

• 56:46Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, so Atlanta in the playoffs, if you're just looking standings wise, you figure Cleveland, Boston, Orlando, New York and Milwaukee are locks to make the playoffs. I think those are the only five. Atlanta is the six seed right now. Miami's seven.

• 57:00Bill Simmons?

  Brooklyn's gonna start making trades soon because they don't want to be good. Chicago's kind of frisky and might not.

• 57:08Speaker 01

  It's the same Chicago.

• 57:09Bill Simmons?

  There's a feel good story. They had a big win tonight.

• 57:12Speaker 01

  The play in Bulls. They can't wait to be in the nine, 10 game.

• 57:16Bill Simmons?

  And Indiana has lost four in a row. They're nine and 14 and they might have the worst body language of any Eastern Conference team.

• 57:25Speaker 01

  Well, they're the one. What happened? What happened to the Pacers?

• 57:29Bill Simmons?

  So I've asked around a little and I've also watched them and I think Siakam's a really good player.

• 57:36Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 57:36Bill Simmons?

  And I'm not sure he fits in with how they played last year when we liked watching them so much.

• 57:41Speaker 01

  Hmm. Interesting.

• 57:42Bill Simmons?

  Those first two months when Halliburton was great and they're flying up and down.

• 57:46Speaker 01

  Flying, flying.

• 57:47Bill Simmons?

  And this year you put Siakam in there. You bring Matherin back, who I think is a little alpha-y. And they just seem like more of a normal basketball team than the team that we watched last year that was balls to the wall. And they don't seem that happy to me. So

• 58:03Bill Simmons?

  to me, they're East Coast Minnesota where the roster shifted and Minnesota in a more obvious way. But they don't have the same kind of thing that made them special last year.

• 58:14Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 58:15Bill Simmons?

  For Indiana, it was that pace. And I don't see the same pace this year. Do you?

• 58:20Speaker 01

  No, I haven't sat down and done any deep looks at the Pacers. I just keep looking at the outcomes of games and the box scores and trying to make sense out of why they're not, they're not competitive in these games. They're like getting blasted.

• 58:36Bill Simmons?

  No, and you know, it's the classic year after syndrome too. Right? Where

• 58:41Speaker 01

  Is Halliburton, is there some kind of hangover from the Olympics? He didn't play in the Olympics, so it shouldn't have affected him.

• 58:48Bill Simmons?

  Well, how about this?

• 58:52Bill Simmons?

  How many, how many points a game do you think they average this year?

• 58:56Bill Simmons?

  Last year, remember they were in like the 120s. They were like 123, some crazy number.

• 59:00Speaker 01

  It like 108, 109? I don't know. I don't have it in front of me.

• 59:03Bill Simmons?

  Last year, they were 123.3.

• 59:06Speaker 01

  Yeah. What are they now?

• 59:08Bill Simmons?

  This year,

• 59:10Bill Simmons?

  they're 113.4.

• 59:13Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 59:14Bill Simmons?

  They've lost 10 points a game.

• 59:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:16Bill Simmons?

  And yet they have Matherin and they have Siakam for a full season. That doesn't make sense, but it does make sense if you watch them. They're not, they don't play with the same pace. And I, to me, they're the most, I think the most likely trade team in either conference right now is Indiana.

• 59:31Speaker 01

  Makes a ton of sense.

• 59:33Bill Simmons?

  I get like people are like Chicago, they want, but if you watch Chicago, they actually seem like they like playing with each other and they have like a specific identity. Indiana doesn't know what they are right now.

• 59:43Speaker 01

  That, that is the issue, right? Like they, their identity, they have to outscore teams because they don't, they still don't defend. I mean, I haven't gotten sat down and look at the advanced numbers.

• 59:52Bill Simmons?

  No, they're almost minus five for the season. They're giving up 118.2 and they're scoring 113.4. So this is, but this brings me to my Atlanta point. I just think Atlanta took their spot and I don't really see a path for Indiana unless there's some trade that they have coming. But they just signed Siakam, a huge deal.

• 1:00:09Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:00:10Bill Simmons?

  Right? If you look at their, Miles Turner is going to be a free agent at the end of the year. If you look at their assets, they have, they have Walker, the kid they took in the lottery two years ago that doesn't, hasn't really had an impact for them. You look at their assets, I don't know, they already traded a couple of picks for Siakam.

• 1:00:26Speaker 01

  I mean, Nemhard is good. Matherin's good. They, I think they have some good guys.

• 1:00:31Bill Simmons?

  He's the trade piece.

• 1:00:32Speaker 01

  Yeah. Which one? Nemhard or Matt Matherin?

• 1:00:36Bill Simmons?

  I think Matherin is the trade piece.

• 1:00:38Speaker 01

  Okay. But he's good. I mean, that's a good, that should fetch something.

• 1:00:43Bill Simmons?

  One of the things that hurt with them is how many games does Niessmith miss now? Yeah, he's only played six and I think that's one of the reasons their defense has gone backwards.

• 1:00:51Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:00:52Bill Simmons?

  But anyway, the likely trade teams for me, Indiana, no question.

• 1:00:58Bill Simmons?

  I'll be really interested to see what happens with Minnesota and Randall and whether there's even a market for him.

• 1:01:04Bill Simmons?

  I went through all the teams, like anyone interested in Julius Randall for 33? And? Or 36, whatever he makes, it gets really hard. It's hard to find takers. You end up like staring at like the Charlotte type of teams, but all those teams are trying to tank now.

• 1:01:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, it doesn't make sense. I, I'm, I'm surprised, why, why aren't we talking about the Pelicans? The Pelicans, isn't everybody available on the Pelicans?

• 1:01:30Bill Simmons?

  I guess, but who? Ingram's an expiring, what are you getting for him? They just signed McCollum, he's making over 30 a year. Like is that, is, are people looking for all offense guards who can't guard anybody making 30 plus a year?

• 1:01:44Speaker 01

  That's a, oof.

• 1:01:45Bill Simmons?

  Probably not. I like McCollum, but.

• 1:01:48Speaker 01

  Is the right thing to do for them to just suck and get the very best?

• 1:01:51Bill Simmons?

  I think that's, well, they beat Phoenix tonight. I had that game on. I don't know what they were thinking.

• 1:01:55Speaker 01

  Damn it.

• 1:01:56Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, they broke their win streak. The Zion thing is the most interesting. Story in sport. I mean, New Orleans is in a weird spot because they don't really have anybody covering the team. They're, they're the kind of this anonymous NBA team. They're playing in a super small market. They don't even have like, I didn't even know who, if there was stuff going on in New Orleans, I don't even really know how we'd find out.

• 1:02:19Bill Simmons?

  I don't want Zion's coming back. They showed him on the bench today. He was, he was wearing like one of those jogging suits where it was hard to tell if he'd put on 50 pounds or not.

• 1:02:28Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:02:28Bill Simmons?

  They just signed Trey Murphy. They can't trade him. They have Hawkins, I would say has some trade assets. So yeah, you're right. New Orleans is in there, but I, to me, Indiana, that's the one I'm watching short term because I think they have pieces, there's moves. And I want to see if they do something. And then the other one who I saw in person, Russel and I were going to talk about in the Denver show, but. Golden State.

• 1:02:53Bill Simmons?

  Now, they didn't have Draymond. Draymond solves a lot of second ball handler stuff with them, creating shots for people. Without him, Curry is really their only shot creator.

• 1:03:02Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 1:03:03Bill Simmons?

  They felt like a three for one team for me as I was watching them. They desperately need, they have all these guys who are all fine and none of them can create a shot. So that when Denver just took out Curry in the last five minutes, Jokic is calling out every Warriors play. And uh, they just didn't have that second guy who's like, I got this. Let me, let me get a couple buckets. Even somebody like Matherin would be a huge help for them. So um, I, I left the game thinking, I actually wouldn't be opposed to them trading for Zach Levine.

• 1:03:35Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:03:37Bill Simmons?

  And I don't know with this, how the apron, I don't, I don't even know how trades work anymore, whether it's even conceivable and does it have to match exactly. But that's the type of guy they need. And Curry being 36,

• 1:03:52Bill Simmons?

  I, I just don't think you can waste the window anymore. Otherwise, just say, you know what? We are who we are and that's it. But.

• 1:03:58Speaker 01

  I felt that way the last, the last two years, I felt that way with this team. They just can't get him help. They just keep saying, we're gonna, you know, we're gonna roll the ball back out there with the guys that we got and they just got worse. I mean, really, they never recovered from Draymond punching Jordan Poole in the face.

• 1:04:15Bill Simmons?

  They didn't.

• 1:04:15Speaker 01

  Uh, a sentiment I kind of understand now. But you know, the, the, it's been two seasons, two full seasons and we got excited at the beginning of this season.

• 1:04:23Bill Simmons?

  But they won. They won in 22. So I don't, it's like.

• 1:04:25Speaker 01

  That's, you're right.

• 1:04:26Bill Simmons?

  Don't shed tears for the Warriors, but.

• 1:04:28Speaker 01

  No, I'm not saying it. Right.

• 1:04:29Bill Simmons?

  But I think the burden that they have on Curry now at the age that he's at is unrealistic. And I think they know it. And I was watching last night, I was watching how hard he has to run around to get open and do all the Curry stuff that he's been doing forever. But now he's doing it as, as a 36 year old. And I don't know, basketball is really hard to play. Did you see that? There was that thing that came out about, um, about, uh, people running during basketball games and the amount of, the amount of miles you run during a year. Somebody tried to do a study on it to try to figure out, and basically took all the three-point shots and the pace of the game, and figured out some formula to compare it to like the eighties, the nineties.

• 1:05:10Bill Simmons?

  And it's just like, there's way more running and sprinting now is basically the theory of it. And, uh, it backed up what I thought this, this, as I go to the games, it just feels like it's harder to play. It just feels like you're constantly on the move, sprinting, doing rush outs, flying around, and, uh, I don't know, I just think it's unrealistic.

• 1:05:32Speaker 01

  Impactful mileage now.

• 1:05:34Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, cuz my biggest regret of our over-unders was the Phoenix one, because I think we gave KD's health too much credit because he played so many games last year. And he's a guy who's been in the league since the 2007 draft. And like, he's hurt again, he's been hurt twice already this year. You know, and, and for what we were laying for that bet, which was, what was the over? It was like 48 and a half, something like that?

• 1:05:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was in the, in the high 40s. Might have been 47 and a half, though.

• 1:06:02Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, 47 and a half. And all three of us did a lot.

• 1:06:06Speaker 01

  I don't regret it. I don't regret it. Not yet.

• 1:06:09Bill Simmons?

  I'll regret it if, if, uh, if he can't play. Yeah, right now they're 12 and 9. We're gonna be sweating that one out.

• 1:06:16Speaker 01

  We are gonna be sweating that one.

• 1:06:17Bill Simmons?

  Cuz it's like one more injury and they look pretty ordinary when he's out there. Anyway, so, and then Lakers, I don't, Lakers will do some sort of panic trade, I just don't know what it is. I think if they're actually trying to be competitive this year, they know that you can't play LeBron, who's by metrics, like one of the five worst defensive players in the league now, with Reeves, with Connect, and with D-Lo. You can't have those four guys on the basketball court at the same time, unless you're trying to play a game that's like 145 to 143. So my guess is Reeves would be the trade guy.

• 1:06:49Speaker 01

  Ooh, wow.

• 1:06:50Bill Simmons?

  Right? Cuz his contract, and you put it with something else.

• 1:06:53Speaker 01

  It's an amazing contract.

• 1:06:55Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:55Speaker 01

  They still have that, that first round pick in 29, which is like, super valuable.

• 1:07:02Bill Simmons?

  Would you trade Reeves?

• 1:07:04Speaker 01

  Yes, definitely.

• 1:07:06Bill Simmons?

  I'm trying to see what his new.

• 1:07:08Speaker 01

  You have to get, have the right guy, but I mean, he's like 15 million bucks a year.

• 1:07:12Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:13Speaker 01

  He is. Great, great price.

• 1:07:15Bill Simmons?

  12.9, 13.9, 14.8.

• 1:07:19Speaker 01

  It's a great contract.

• 1:07:20Bill Simmons?

  Russell's 18.6 expiring. So already that gets you over 30. Rui with 17 gets you to like the high 40s. Right? So now you could, if you really wanted to make a run at an expensive guy, you could. But I'm sure, I'm sure.

• 1:07:37Speaker 01

  Who would it be?

• 1:07:39Bill Simmons?

  Ainge is just waiting. He's just waiting for the panic.

• 1:07:43Speaker 01

  Ainge? Why? What, what's Ainge got?

• 1:07:46Bill Simmons?

  Cause Ainge has all those pieces. He's got, he's got John Collins at 26.5. He's got Sexton at 18.3, Jordan Clarkson at 14. And he's got, most importantly, Kessler at three.

• 1:07:58Speaker 01

  The Lakers are not taking any of those dudes.

• 1:08:01Bill Simmons?

  Why? Sexton and, and.

• 1:08:03Speaker 01

  Sexton's the only one.

• 1:08:05Bill Simmons?

  Sexton and Kessler would help them.

• 1:08:07Speaker 01

  They would, they would genuinely help them, but like.

• 1:08:10Bill Simmons?

  And they have Lakers to offer Utah. That's like the best currency you could have.

• 1:08:14Speaker 01

  The Lakers, the.

• 1:08:15Bill Simmons?

  They're gonna be like dangling Austin Reeves. They're like, hey, Utah, look.

• 1:08:19Speaker 01

  The guy that I, the guy that I would think that the Lakers would like have circled, Jimmy Butler. That's who I would think that, you know, they would be going in that direction. Right? They're not, they're not, and then we're not, we're not going for Walker fucking Kessler. We're gonna go get a big, super duper, big dong star. That's a tough guy, guy. And he's, he's already on the banana boat and that's it. He's our dude. Something like Jimmy Butler.

• 1:08:45Bill Simmons?

  I like the way you're thinking, House. Let me look at this for a second. So that would be Reeves.

• 1:08:53Bill Simmons?

  That would have to be basically Reeves, Russell and Rui.

• 1:08:57Speaker 01

  Bye bye. And by the way, all those guys would be like Miami? Yes, we're in.

• 1:09:06Bill Simmons?

  Kyle, turn the TikTok camera on. Here's what I actually think the Lakers should do.

• 1:09:12Bill Simmons?

  I would trade Davis and cash in on him.

• 1:09:14Speaker 01

  Wow, wow. Embiid, Embiid for Davis.

• 1:09:19Bill Simmons?

  I would have been. Honestly, what would Davis be worth?

• 1:09:24Speaker 01

  Every, like, everything.

• 1:09:27Bill Simmons?

  Like.

• 1:09:27Speaker 01

  Who can come up with enough?

• 1:09:29Bill Simmons?

  Let's say he was in play for the Rockets. Would they have to think about that?

• 1:09:35Speaker 01

  Of course they'd have to think about.

• 1:09:37Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, of course.

• 1:09:38Speaker 01

  What kind of question is that?

• 1:09:40Bill Simmons?

  Yes.

• 1:09:41Speaker 01

  Yes, yes, a million yeses.

• 1:09:44Bill Simmons?

  I just don't think.

• 1:09:45Speaker 01

  The Lakers are not trading Anthony Davis.

• 1:09:47Bill Simmons?

  If the goal is to win a title over the next four years.

• 1:09:50Speaker 01

  The goal is to win the title this year or next.

• 1:09:53Bill Simmons?

  They have no chance.

• 1:09:57Speaker 01

  I agree.

• 1:09:57Bill Simmons?

  Zero chance, no chance, none of winning the title, no chance, zero.

• 1:10:07Bill Simmons?

  There is no way.

• 1:10:09Speaker 01

  They, there's a guy, they need a guy.

• 1:10:13Bill Simmons?

  They, they need a time machine.

• 1:10:14Speaker 01

  They do need a time machine, yes.

• 1:10:16Bill Simmons?

  Look, it's amazing that LeBron is still playing and that he can score 29 points in a game in his 22nd year in the league. They're not winning a title with him. They're not winning a title with the team they have and they can't play defense. And they know it.

• 1:10:29Speaker 01

  No argument.

• 1:10:30Bill Simmons?

  He was 31, as healthy as he's ever been, making a ton of money.

• 1:10:33Speaker 01

  Themselves, they became a three-point shooting team, except for they can't shoot threes. I'm gonna hold on to that clip that I sent you. That's gonna be my part of my,

• 1:10:44Speaker 01

  where LeBron misses the entire rim. He misses, he misses so badly that the announcer's like, wide left, that's even, oh my, wide left.

• 1:11:00Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, that would be Indiana is my number one trade team now. Anyway.

• 1:11:03Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:11:03Bill Simmons?

  That's it. That's my little basketball report for you. Who would you bet right now for the finals if you had to make a bet?

• 1:11:10Speaker 01

  Uh, Oklahoma City and Boston.

• 1:11:16Bill Simmons?

  It's funny, I don't think that's changed. And yet, I, I continue to think Cleveland's really, really good.

• 1:11:23Speaker 01

  They are really good.

• 1:11:24Bill Simmons?

  And, um, I have Celtics fans in my life who aren't really focused on it enough yet. One of the things about them, Mitchell is about as unafraid of the Celtics as, as any guy in the league. Like, he really has so much confidence against them. They have size and, um, there's still that Aggro spot that I think, I don't know if they're gonna try to upgrade that, or whether they just like the chemistry so much, but.

• 1:11:51Speaker 01

  I, I, I also would just counsel in favor of like, don't be dismissive of the Knicks. If the Knicks arrive the playoffs healthy, those guys, it's their alpha. They are not, they, they think that they, they think that Boston is beta, and they think that they're alpha, and that's gonna be a hell of a fistfight. I'm just telling you.

• 1:12:09Bill Simmons?

  I'll, I'll welcome that one.

• 1:12:11Speaker 01

  Okay, I'm just telling you, they think it'll be a fistfight, and it might be a good one.

• 1:12:15Bill Simmons?

  The Knicks aren't the team. It's Cleveland's the team. Now, the Knicks, if Robinson can come back and actually be healthy.

• 1:12:21Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:12:23Speaker 01

  I said if they're healthy.

• 1:12:25Bill Simmons?

  I figure there's a buyout guy for them.

• 1:12:29Bill Simmons?

  That we don't know who it is in February or beginning of March, but there's some guy they're gonna get who is excited to play for the Knicks, who has a relationship with Wes and Leon.

• 1:12:37Speaker 01

  For sure.

• 1:12:38Bill Simmons?

  And there's some sort of DiVincenzo replacement type swing that will be on their team, that I don't know who it is yet.

• 1:12:44Speaker 01

  Is it, is, is it, it could, it can't be DiVincenzo? He can't, I mean.

• 1:12:48Bill Simmons?

  No, because he is traded back.

• 1:12:49Speaker 01

  He would like to come back.

• 1:12:50Bill Simmons?

  Minnesota will be able to trade him.

• 1:12:52Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:12:53Bill Simmons?

  I don't think they'll be able to trade Randall, but anyway. All right, how's, uh,

• 1:12:58Bill Simmons?

  the Washington Commanders?

• 1:13:00Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:13:01Bill Simmons?

  What's your enthusiasm level right now?

• 1:13:02Speaker 01

  Super high. I tried, I, I, I did a whole emotional hedge, a whole thing. I made my best bet Tennessee last week. But it was worth it. It was worth it. I don't, I mean, that's a, that's a good investment by me. Washington, kick their ass. I love it. Why, I'm gonna go to, I'm not even gonna say it out loud. I'm, I'm, uh, I'm cautiously optimistic for the fortunes of my Washington football team. That's the way I'll say it.

• 1:13:27Bill Simmons?

  Who do you think gets benched first? Kirk Cousins, Aaron Rodgers, or John Jastrzemski from the Sunday Ringer pregame show?

• 1:13:34Speaker 01

  Not.

• 1:13:35Bill Simmons?

  Who's gonna get the hook?

• 1:13:36Speaker 01

  Not JJ. JJ is, is a starter for life.

• 1:13:39Bill Simmons?

  I saw an unnamed vet in the Ringer locker room say JJ was hosting for his, for his starting job this week.

• 1:13:45Speaker 01

  I won't tolerate it. No JJ slander on any of these.

• 1:13:49Bill Simmons?

  I'm just kidding, JJ. I mean, he did start, he did start a podcast part today. He was saying like, guys, don't think I'm crazy. Anytime he starts a sentence with, don't think I'm crazy. I'm like, oh no, here you go. He's gonna take a terrible quarterback.

• 1:14:04Speaker 01

  I enjoy it. I always enjoy it.

• 1:14:07Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. No, I'm, I'm, JJ, you can turn it around. We all have faith. Uh, Joe House, great to see you. I'll see you on the Ringer Sunday pregame show.

• 1:14:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:15Bill Simmons?

  This Sunday, 11 a.m. Uh, on YouTube TV and Fanduel TV. Great to see you.

• 1:14:20Speaker 01

  Great to see you.

• 1:14:25Bill Simmons?

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• 1:15:08Bill Simmons?

  goes splat in your seat, or a weekend tailgate that leaves your trunk full of gear and who knows what, you're gonna want WeatherTech in your vehicle. Whether you call it fall, autumn, or spooky season, whether the mess is your fault, the kids, the dogs, or the weather's fault, you're gonna want WeatherTech for American-made floor liners and a cargo liner that laugh in the face of fall weather. Visit weatherTech.com today.

• 1:15:29Bill Simmons?

  All right, somebody I've never had on the podcast before, Jesse, I know him as the body Ventura, but he is going to be returning to NBC, WWE Saturday Night's main event, returning to broadcast television, Saturday, December 14th, 8 p.m. ET, live. And Jesse, you're going to be part of the announcing crew, you're going to do a match or two, and not only you're a Hall of Famer, you are one of the great broadcasters of all time. So I'm so happy to have you on TV again.

• 1:15:58Speaker 02

  Well, thanks, Bill. It's great to be here. And the ironic thing is that we're, we're holding this event in the very building that we held the very first one, way back in the 80s.

• 1:16:14Bill Simmons?

  So which building is it? I don't even know.

• 1:16:16Speaker 02

  I don't know, Nassau Coliseum, wherever, the one out, the one out in Long Island.

• 1:16:21Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:16:22Speaker 02

  That's where we held it back then. And so they're going to hold this very first one of the new NBC Saturday Night's main event. And what's exciting about it, and I got the word on this, it's going, the whole show is going to be a throwback.

• 1:16:41Bill Simmons?

  What does that mean?

• 1:16:43Speaker 02

  Well, that means it's going to look like it did before.

• 1:16:48Bill Simmons?

  Really?

• 1:16:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:16:49Bill Simmons?

  The graphics, everything?

• 1:16:51Speaker 02

  The, yes, the wrestlers are not coming down that ramp. They're not coming with all the lights and spectacular, they're coming in through the crowd.

• 1:17:02Bill Simmons?

  Wow.

• 1:17:02Speaker 02

  Like the old days. That's why they brought me back.

• 1:17:07Bill Simmons?

  Amazing. Wow, you should be back anyway.

• 1:17:09Speaker 02

  We're going back in a time capsule, only it's going to be four times a year.

• 1:17:15Bill Simmons?

  Unbelievable. So what was, of all the Friday Night Main Event, Saturday Night Main Event, and I know it's almost 40 years ago, but what, what, what was the most memorable one for you? Cause you were there for most of them.

• 1:17:26Speaker 02

  I'll get to them, but I need to make a more of an introduction here.

• 1:17:30Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:31Speaker 02

  Hell has frozen over.

• 1:17:33Bill Simmons?

  Why?

• 1:17:34Speaker 02

  Because I never dreamed I would be back in the WWE now WWF until hell froze over. I had a friend Glenn Fry of the Eagles. And I remember when the Eagles broke up, they, they thought, oh, it's, it's over. We'll never hear another Eagles song. The differences are too much. They'll never be able to mend fences. And low and behold, Glenn got together with, you know, and, and away with Don Henley. And away they go. They came back and they cut that phenomenal album when hell freezes over. And I kind of feel that way that, uh, hell has frozen over for me because I never believed

• 1:18:16Speaker 02

  in my wildest dreams, I would be back doing wrestling again.

• 1:18:21Bill Simmons?

  Well, in the Eagles case, hell froze over because they made a shitload of money on that concert tour. I think that's one of the reasons, right? That was like one of the first great nostalgia tours ever. So what's the case for you? Why did hell freeze over?

• 1:18:35Speaker 02

  Well, because for me, it's a full circle of my career. I, I can't go back in the United States Navy where I spent my first six years. When I grad, after I graduated from high school, I had, I was in the Navy, United States Navy for six years. I can't do that because there's age limits. My friend Rudy Bosch stayed as long as you could. He had 44 years in when they threw Rudy out. But anyway, that aside, but this, this is ironic because it, it means my career has gone full circle.

• 1:19:10Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:19:10Speaker 02

  Because, and, and here's the part that I don't understand. They couldn't control me before. Why do they believe they can now?

• 1:19:21Bill Simmons?

  Oh, I like this. Is that really why? Is that what happened with you? They felt like they couldn't control you? Like when you talk about fences being mended.

• 1:19:28Speaker 02

  I was thrown out. I was uncontrollable. Jesse the Body Ventura. Number one, I tried to unionize.

• 1:19:36Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:19:37Speaker 02

  Number two, I wouldn't allow them to market me without negotiating it.

• 1:19:43Speaker 02

  That's what ultimately got me thrown out of the WWF, WWE. Then I went to WCW. Here's the behind the scenes story. I went to WCW. They went into turmoil. The guy who hired me got fired. They brought in Bill Watts, who was an old school relic, who didn't understand the business had changed. It had gone to television now, not to putting seats in the stands. The money was now going to be in TV. He didn't get that. So he comes in and then he gets fired and I busted my butt

• 1:20:25Speaker 02

  behind the scenes to get Eric Bischoff into the position. And here's where it got interesting. Eric Bischoff then got the head job at WCW. And then behind my back, he went out and got Hogan, because Hogan was leaving the WWF or getting booted or whatever was happening with his career. They gave Hogan total artistic control. He came in, got me immediately fired because he took over my look. He put the shades on, he put the durag on, and he became a villain. He couldn't have Jesse Ventura be there and become Jesse Ventura.

• 1:21:09Speaker 02

  So he got me fired. And in essence, my wrestling career was over. I had worked for the two major, I wasn't going into one of these little outlaw ones in your own hometown. That wasn't about to happen. I looked to other things. What did I do? I went to the dirtiest business on the planet, got myself elected mayor and went on and got myself, defeated the Democrats and Republicans at the same time and got myself elected governor of Minnesota. And dig this, I only raised $300,000 to do it. You want to know who could have been president if he wanted to be? You're talking to him.

• 1:21:52Bill Simmons?

  Well, you beat a legacy kid too in Minnesota. You upended both parties and beat Humphrey's son.

• 1:21:58Speaker 02

  Oh, I beat Hubert Humphrey's son. I beat Senator Norm Coleman. Well, on the Democratic side at that time, we called it my three sons. You had the sons of Hubert Humphrey, Orville Freeman, and Mondale. So it was my, it was my three sons on the Democratic side.

• 1:22:18Speaker 02

  Like the old TV show.

• 1:22:19Bill Simmons?

  The legacy kids always have trouble in politics and sports. I want to go back to Hogan though, because, you know, and there's been a lot written and a lot discussed, but you know, you haven't seen it yet, but we did the six episode documentary on Vince McMahon for Netflix. And we had a big section there about when you tried to unionize in 86 before WrestleMania 2. That ended up in the final cut, we only had six plus hours. We ended up, we, it's in there, but we cut it down a little from one of the cuts. We had like eight, nine minutes because it was so interesting. And what really happened was Hogan shanked you and Hogan admitted to it to us on camera. That yeah, he went and ran to Vince and told him what you were trying to do. And you were basically trying to upend WrestleMania 2, get it so that they, they would have health benefits,

• 1:23:03Bill Simmons?

  all kinds of stuff that they didn't have.

• 1:23:05Speaker 02

  It was, okay, here's the, here's the story.

• 1:23:08Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:08Speaker 02

  It was, uh, I knew this was the perfect time. And then of course we had to get with the Charlotte guys and have them walk out also. If we could have got us and Charlotte, it was perfect timing. All the publicity was out there. He couldn't change nothing. There wasn't time for it.

• 1:23:28Bill Simmons?

  The pay-per-views are being sold, the WrestleMania 2, three cities, the whole thing.

• 1:23:32Speaker 02

  It's, it's, it's two weeks before the show. All we had to do was as in mass, walk out, go to the media and say, we refuse to wrestle unless federal negotiators for union are brought in, it's federal law. He couldn't stop it, it's federal law. And, and we refuse to perform until we're allowed to unionize or collective bargain and bring these people in. And I made that passion speech. And when I was done, I went home and the next day Vince calls me immediately.

• 1:24:11Speaker 02

  Well, I found out he apparently called all the wrestlers and threatened them all and all of this stuff, I guess. I didn't know about that, but he called me and I stood up to him. I said, Vince, I said, this isn't just to fight you. I said, this is about the fact, right now, and this was mid eighties. I said, right now, I'm paying $5,000 a year for health insurance for me and my family. I said, if we

• 1:24:39Bill Simmons?

  Out of your own pocket?

• 1:24:40Speaker 02

  Out of my pocket. If we had a union, there's strength in numbers, maybe I'd only have to pay 2,000 a year. Instead of five. I said, Vince, I've seen hundreds of guys give 20 years of their life to this business. And in the end, they ain't got a pot to piss in, a window to throw it out of. I said, we're wrestlers, we're not financial planners. And I said, if we had a union, maybe a guy could retire on 500 bucks a month. And get something for the 20, 30 years you give to this business. I said, it isn't just about fighting you. I said, sure, and we'd like working conditions.

• 1:25:24Speaker 02

  To where if you go on the road three days in a row, you're then given so many days off.

• 1:25:29Bill Simmons?

  Well, wait, hold on, wait a second. You gotta give context on this because in the seventies and eighties. You guys are on the road for 300, 310 days a year. You're wrestling everywhere. You're in all the territories, nonstop.

• 1:25:40Speaker 02

  I'll tell you how bad it was. When I got injured with pulmonary emboli, blood clots in the lungs.

• 1:25:47Bill Simmons?

  Yep.

• 1:25:48Speaker 02

  That was caused by flying.

• 1:25:51Bill Simmons?

  Really?

• 1:25:52Speaker 02

  Yes. They've determined it today that you're very more susceptible. That's why you need to exercise on planes. So, and they don't say nothing now because the airline people are well aware of it. I get up on every plane and do toe raises for 10 minutes. The flight attendant won't say a word to you. They know exactly what you're doing.

• 1:26:15Bill Simmons?

  Interesting.

• 1:26:16Speaker 02

  But the point is, here's how bad it was. The month that I had the pulmonary emboli, blood clots. Do you know how many days that month I flew? 28.

• 1:26:28Bill Simmons?

  Oh my God, really?

• 1:26:29Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:26:30Bill Simmons?

  And you were one of the headliners at that point, like you were going against Hogan, you were one of their best guys.

• 1:26:34Speaker 02

  You're talking 30 days in a month and 28 of them I was on an airplane. Let's get back to, that's what I wanted the union for.

• 1:26:43Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:43Speaker 02

  I wanted the union and, and for Hogan to then make a statement. Well, I didn't want to get paid like everybody else. He makes it sound like unionizing is socialism and communism. Does, does Pat Mahomes make the same money as everybody else in the NFL? Of course not. He makes way more and they have a union. Does LeBron James make more than everybody in the NBA? Yes, of course he does. And they have a union. Hogan would have still made more. That's a lame excuse. You want to know how bad it was? It came out in my court case.

• 1:27:27Speaker 02

  My court case against Vince, we have the numbers from WrestleMania three. Right? The big one. Pontiac Silverdome.

• 1:27:37Bill Simmons?

  Yep.

• 1:27:38Speaker 02

  Hogan against Andre. And then the greatest match that I ever saw, Ricky Steamboat against Macho. The greatest match I'd ever broadcast or ever seen, that match. But that aside.

• 1:27:53Speaker 02

  We got the numbers in my court case. Hulk Hogan made more that night than all of the rest of us combined, including Andre.

• 1:28:02Bill Simmons?

  Wow. I mean, he, he did probably was the biggest reason they sold out the Silverdome though.

• 1:28:07Speaker 02

  Now you know, want to know why he didn't, he, you want to know why? He'd lay his life down to stop a union.

• 1:28:14Bill Simmons?

  Well, he denied it forever and ever, right? He always said he never did it and now he admits that he did it.

• 1:28:19Speaker 02

  Of course he did. And here's why, and here's why. If you come from the business during my era of the old territory days. The worst thing you can be accused of being is an office stooge. That's somebody who rides around with the boys, pretends he's one of them, but all the while he's listening to the gossip and he's reporting it back to the promoters, taking care of himself and being quote, "an office stooge." That in my day of wrestling was the worst thing you could ever be.

• 1:28:56Bill Simmons?

  Well, what's interesting about-

• 1:28:57Speaker 02

  And that's what Hogan was.

• 1:28:58Bill Simmons?

  Your relationship with him, you didn't know for a few years, right? It didn't come out to the steroid trial that he had in 94 that he had been actually going back and telling Vince.

• 1:29:07Speaker 02

  It didn't come out until my trial that I had, and it only came out because I told my attorney the story, and when you depose someone, you can ask anything in a deposition. So I told my attorney the story and I, my attorney was great, they beat Vince. And my attorney, I said, "If you can find out who ratted me, I would really love to know who was the rat in the dressing room that ratted me out." And so during the deposition, I can't say anything, I'm sitting there and my attorney asked Vince, he said, "Mr. McMahon," he said, "Has there ever been a union in wrestling?" And Vince said, "No."

• 1:29:52Speaker 02

  And my attorney said, "Has anyone ever tried to form a union in wrestling?" And Vince thought a moment and he said, "Yeah." He said, "I think Jesse Ventura might have spouted his mouth." I remember he used the term, "spouted his mouth off" about it one time a number of years ago. And my attorney said, "Oh, really?" He said, "Did you hear Mr. Ventura talk about unionizing?" And Vince went, "No." And my attorney said, "Well, then how were you aware of it?" With no hesitation, Vince went, "Hulk Hogan told me."

• 1:30:30Speaker 02

  I almost fell out of my chair. Now I had to sit there. I can't show no emotion. I can't, you know, it's a deposition. I can't talk. I can't, nothing. I can only sit there and confer with my attorney. It was, it was, it was as rough as getting hit in the face with a hard left jab because Hulk Hogan had, I thought, been my friend.

• 1:30:55Bill Simmons?

  Hmm. Who did you think did it then? Before you found out it was Hogan, who did you think was the one that told Vince?

• 1:31:02Speaker 02

  I had no idea. That's why I wanted to find out. I wanted to know who was the rat in the dressing room. Cause I made sure there was nobody from the office when I made the speech. When I made this, because I, I made sure of it. Pat Patterson wasn't there. Strongbow wasn't in there. None of the agents were there.

• 1:31:26Bill Simmons?

  So you knew, because you started wrestling almost 50 years ago and you were in, I think, the Portland territory where you wrestled against my, one of my favorites, Snuka, back when, back when he really had the hops. You were in Minnesota. That's when you teamed up with Adrian Adonis.

• 1:31:41Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 1:31:41Bill Simmons?

  AWA. But then you ended up in the WWF back then, early eighties, right around when Hogan was in there as a bad guy. So you must have known him forever.

• 1:31:51Speaker 02

  No, no. Hogan came into the AWA when I was there.

• 1:31:55Bill Simmons?

  Oh, yeah. Right, right. So that was even like the 79, 80 range.

• 1:31:58Speaker 02

  And then Vern, Vern wouldn't give him the title and Vern wouldn't let him market himself. And so Hogan made the smart move. He jumped right away to Vince who let him do all that. And, you know, financially, yeah, I don't begrudge Hogan that. I'd have did the same thing too.

• 1:32:18Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:18Speaker 02

  You know, but him ratting us, that was low.

• 1:32:24Bill Simmons?

  Well, you know.

• 1:32:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, but, but anyway, you know, that was the nature of the business. Everyone's out for themselves. You know, it's always been that nature of the business. That's how the business survived was backstabbing.

• 1:32:42Bill Simmons?

  You know, we, we had a couple of what if scenarios when Vince took over and we, we played it up a little in documentary, but not as much as I think we could have because one of the guys he wanted was Dusty Rhodes because he knew he had to get rid of Bob Backlund. He knew he needed a more charismatic champ. And then the other one was Hogan. And at that point Hogan's in the AWA, as you said, but Vern Gagne wouldn't give him the title. Coming off Rocky III, when they were on ESPN and there's this whole alternate universe where Vern Gagne just says, I should just build AWA around this guy and Hogan never leaves and becomes like this ESPN star. And I don't know, what happens to wrestling if that happens?

• 1:33:20Speaker 02

  I don't know. Who the heck would know?

• 1:33:23Bill Simmons?

  It's a good sliding doors though, right?

• 1:33:25Speaker 02

  Then, then it would have been a hell of a lot more challenging for Vince to go across the country like he did.

• 1:33:31Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:33:31Speaker 02

  Because Vince needed Hogan, just as Hogan needed him. They needed each other.

• 1:33:37Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:37Speaker 02

  You know, that was a mutual deal and don't begrudge either one of them. You know, what, what they accomplished was remarkable and I was happy to be part of it. You know?

• 1:33:47Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. I mean, it worked out perfectly for all sides.

• 1:33:50Speaker 02

  Yeah. And it worked out and it, and it worked out great for me because

• 1:33:53Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:33:54Speaker 02

  You know, unfortunately my career ended right before I was due to wrestle Hogan. The night before I was due to wrestle Hogan in LA, my first match with him in the WWF and I'm seven days critical in San Diego hospital so bad.

• 1:34:11Bill Simmons?

  Jesus.

• 1:34:11Speaker 02

  My wife had to fly out to San Diego. I didn't know if I'd ever wrestle again. And ironically, you know, who came to my rescue?

• 1:34:22Bill Simmons?

  Who?

• 1:34:23Speaker 02

  And she don't even know it. I bet today. I bet if you asked her, she wouldn't even truly know it. Cyndi Lauper.

• 1:34:34Bill Simmons?

  Really?

• 1:34:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:34:35Bill Simmons?

  How did she come to your rescue?

• 1:34:37Speaker 02

  Well, Cyndi Lauper did me a favor that ended up creating my entire broadcasting career.

• 1:34:46Speaker 02

  I went home, I went home facing the end of my wrestling career. What do I do now?

• 1:34:54Speaker 02

  Am I gonna go down to General Mills and sign on as a VP and put down past experience pro wrestler?

• 1:35:04Speaker 02

  You're not gonna get no job.

• 1:35:06Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:06Speaker 02

  And like all, like all pro athletes in its own weird way, nobody ever thinks about it till it's over.

• 1:35:15Speaker 02

  And then when it's over, you gotta face it. And I had to face it prematurely.

• 1:35:21Speaker 02

  I was, I did come back in the ring, but I never came back to the extent of what I was doing. And I, and a friend of mine said, here's the Lauper story. A friend of mine said, you should be a broadcaster. You can talk. So I went down to Channel 11, Tom Rither, he just passed away a few months ago, my friend Tom Rither. And I told Tom my situation. He was a head of sports down there. So he introduced me to the head guy of the station. And he gave me a producer cameraman who was Emmy award winning. And he said, okay, he said, go out and do something for me.

• 1:36:00Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:36:02Speaker 02

  Right?

• 1:36:03Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:03Speaker 02

  So Cindy La, it was right during the Cindy Lauper Rockin' Wrestling crap. You know, when Cindy was all involved with Wendy Richter and it was going big and all that. Cindy was doing a concert here in Minneapolis. So I, I called up David Wolf, her manager, and I said, could I come down and interview Cindy before the show? He said, of course. And so I came down with my guy. We, we got together with Cindy and it was during that punk era. So we decided to have Cindy dye my hair.

• 1:36:39Speaker 02

  So Cyndi Lauper dyed my hair like six different colors because that was in then. And that night at her concert, she brought me out in front of the crowd to show the crowd what we had did that afternoon. And Vince got a hold of that tape and it was like two days later, he calls me and he says, Jesse, do you think you could do color commentating? And I said, I know I could. And he said, I got an idea. I said, what is it? He said, there's never been a villain on the mic before. You're going to be the first one.

• 1:37:18Bill Simmons?

  Honestly, one of the great ideas and I wish we had them in in actual sports. It'd be really fun if we had football, NBA, we had somebody who was the heel announcer. I know they would never do it, but uh, super fun.

• 1:37:30Speaker 02

  Well, like I said, that and that's so I oh, Cyndi, I bet don't even know.

• 1:37:36Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:37Speaker 02

  That, that, that, that, that the piece she did with me spurred McMahon to have the light and I give Vince credit, he's P T Barnum of the generation, man. The light bulb went out and Vince was had and he thought there's never been a villain on the mic.

• 1:37:54Speaker 02

  Let's put a villain on the mic. And then I was fortunate because who did they put me on with but Gorilla Monsoon?

• 1:38:00Bill Simmons?

  Right. One of the great teams.

• 1:38:02Speaker 02

  Oh, I mean, Gino was a dream.

• 1:38:08Bill Simmons?

  So.

• 1:38:08Speaker 02

  To work with, you know, you, you couldn't have asked for a easier, better tandem. I don't think Gino and I ever had a misunderstanding ever. I can't, I can't think of one.

• 1:38:25Bill Simmons?

  Can we go back to your wrestling for a second? How did you ever hit your peak? Do you feel like there was more there? Did you hit your ceiling? When were you at your best?

• 1:38:32Speaker 02

  Well, I think I was at my best right before I was going to go against Hogan.

• 1:38:37Bill Simmons?

  Right. So how old are you at that point? You're like mid, late 30s?

• 1:38:41Speaker 02

  Earlier 30s.

• 1:38:42Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:38:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, but I'm right at the, I'm right, I'm right where I ought to be for it.

• 1:38:49Bill Simmons?

  Right. And you could have been.

• 1:38:50Speaker 02

  Experience.

• 1:38:51Bill Simmons?

  You could have been one of the big heels.

• 1:38:53Speaker 02

  I'm as big as I'm ever gonna be. And right there and all of a sudden I'm flat on my back and in, in critical condition in San Diego, California, not knowing if I'm gonna live or die.

• 1:39:07Bill Simmons?

  And yet weirdly physically, it was probably better for you long term.

• 1:39:12Speaker 02

  Well, I always view it as, and I tell people this when I give speeches and stuff. I always tell people, remember out of adversity, great things can happen. When you think adversity struck you and that everything has gone to shit. It's amazing how, look what I fell into then. I got more famous being on the mic than I probably ever would have been in the ring.

• 1:39:42Bill Simmons?

  I mean, the thing you tapped into, which was so funny, wrestling was all about provoking reaction. Either a happy reaction or an angry reaction, right? The more heat you can get, whether you're wrestling.

• 1:39:53Speaker 02

  That's why.

• 1:39:53Bill Simmons?

  A manager, whatever, that that's where you want to be.

• 1:39:56Speaker 02

  Couldn't control me then. What makes them think they can now?

• 1:40:00Bill Simmons?

  Well, you were the first announcer that made people mad.

• 1:40:03Speaker 02

  Exactly. Do they have any idea the power I have now? Do they have any idea the guy that's gonna be on that mic? Sat down face to face with Fidel Castro? Do they have any idea? That the guy on that mic had a dinner in his honor at Tiananmen Square in China?

• 1:40:26Bill Simmons?

  Wow.

• 1:40:28Speaker 02

  And I did all this after wrestling.

• 1:40:34Bill Simmons?

  What was your relationship with like with Vince the last 25 years? Cause you you came back, you you got inducted into the Hall of Fame. But other than that, you weren't really around.

• 1:40:44Speaker 02

  I had no relationship with him. Really? Nothing.

• 1:40:48Bill Simmons?

  So what was your reaction watching the last five years as it all kind of fell apart?

• 1:40:52Speaker 02

  Well, when I got inducted into the Hall of Fame, they asked me what I felt my biggest contribution was to pro wrestling. And I think I shocked everyone and I know I irritated Vince and Linda. But I said, I believe my biggest contribution to wrestling was the fact that I was the first wrestler in history who made Vince McMahon deal with a manager or an agent.

• 1:41:23Bill Simmons?

  Is that true?

• 1:41:25Speaker 02

  Yes. Hogan never did. Hogan dealt with Vince. It's him and Vince. Hogan had a Hollywood agent. But I was the first one that and that resulted as because of Predator.

• 1:41:40Bill Simmons?

  Right. Which he didn't want you to do.

• 1:41:42Speaker 02

  He told me I couldn't do it. So I quit. And I went and did Predator. And while I was doing Predator, Arnold said, in September, I'm gonna do the Running Man. There's a part you're perfect for. Would you like to do it? I said, hell, yeah. And so I negotiated Running Man first. Then I went back to Vince. And you know why that was? That gives you FU money in your pocket.

• 1:42:09Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:42:10Speaker 02

  Where if he doesn't do what I'm satisfied with, I tell him, flake off. I got I'm doing the Running Man in the fall. I'm okay. I got another major movie with Arnold. That's gonna come up in the fall.

• 1:42:23Bill Simmons?

  But the thing is, all of that stuff was fantastic for the WWF at the time. To have their announcer being these high profile movies with one of the biggest movie stars we had.

• 1:42:32Speaker 02

  That that ain't that ain't what it's about with him. With people like him and power people with money like that, it's control.

• 1:42:44Speaker 02

  It ain't got nothing to do with doing deals and doing the right thing and promoting the correct way. It's all about control. I was the horse that got out of the corral. I wouldn't let him market me. That's the final straw. I was gonna do my own video game. And Vince said, you can't do it. I said, I own my rights. I'm registered with the government. Jesse the Body Ventura, I own the copyright with the government. How can you tell me I can't do it? And that was the final straw. That's when he fired me. And then I think he, cause I never did get the video game. So I think some hanky panky went on there too.

• 1:43:29Bill Simmons?

  Oh, no. Well, then when you sued him.

• 1:43:32Speaker 02

  I don't know. I have no evidence.

• 1:43:34Bill Simmons?

  When you sued him, it was because he, you felt like you were given the wrong impression of a contract you signed that signed away your rights to be basically in all the home video stuff they did.

• 1:43:44Speaker 02

  I never signed a contract.

• 1:43:45Bill Simmons?

  Oh, that's what it was. Okay.

• 1:43:47Speaker 02

  I never had a contract.

• 1:43:49Bill Simmons?

  So when you sued them, what were you suing them for? And the important point is that you won.

• 1:43:54Speaker 02

  Well, I sued them over videotape royalties. And not that he had to pay me, but all the time that I was working for Vince, I would ask him, Vince, how come everything I do in Hollywood, when they replay it, I get royalties? And everything I do for you, I get nothing? I said, how does that work? It was just he and I. I'd be there with him alone. I said, tell me how that works. How come I get royalties in Hollywood and I don't with you? And he'd give me these phony excuses of why, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da.

• 1:44:34Speaker 02

  So what I did, every time I, or at that time, my agent was Barry Blum.

• 1:44:42Speaker 02

  Every time I or Barry would negotiate with the WWF, we would bring up videotape royalties. And every time, we were told the same thing. I don't pay videotape royalties. Well, we won in court on what's called quantum merit. And what that mean, Vince didn't have to pay royalties. There's no law that says he does.

• 1:45:08Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:09Speaker 02

  But here's how I beat him. When you sit down to negotiate, you expect the other side to be telling you the truth. We were constantly lied to by being told he didn't pay royalties. Well, when we sued and got into discovery, we found out Hulk Hogan was getting royalties. Mr. T was getting royalties. Cyndi Lauper was getting royalties. Everybody from mainstream Hollywood were all getting royalties.

• 1:45:45Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:45:46Speaker 02

  It was us wrestlers who weren't. Well, he lied during those negotiations and said, I don't pay royalties. That's called quantum merit. That's where he broke the law. He has, he has to tell the truth during negotiations. You expect that. He can't lie. And the truth was, yes, he paid royalties. And when I got on the stand, my attorney asked me, Jesse Ventura, had you known other people were receiving royalties, would you have agreed to work for what you did? I said, absolutely not. I said, if I found out other people were getting royalties,

• 1:46:32Speaker 02

  I would have demanded them too.

• 1:46:35Bill Simmons?

  There you go.

• 1:46:36Speaker 02

  And the jury found for me.

• 1:46:40Bill Simmons?

  Vince didn't probably like that, I'm guessing.

• 1:46:42Speaker 02

  Oh, he hated it. He took it all the way to the Supreme Court, for cripe's sake.

• 1:46:46Bill Simmons?

  Wow.

• 1:46:47Speaker 02

  And then he calls me on the phone and screams into my ear when it's all over, "That's my money!" And I very calmly said to him, Vince, I said, "The jury said it was my money. The federal judge said it was my money. The United States Court of Appeals said it was my money, and the Supreme Court says it's my money." I said, "Vince, I think you're a minority opinion."

• 1:47:16Bill Simmons?

  And that's that.

• 1:47:17Speaker 02

  And that was the end of it.

• 1:47:19Bill Simmons?

  So 10 years after you left, give or take a year.

• 1:47:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:47:23Bill Simmons?

  He became a heel. He became heel owner after Bret Hart punched him. And that led to Montreal Screw Job, and it leads to this whole character arc where he's the owner of WWF at that point, but is also bleeding, and it's hard to tell what's real, what's not real. Did you ever figure that out when you worked with him? What was real and what wasn't real with that guy?

• 1:47:44Speaker 02

  Well, I'll tell you this. Vince was successful because, as bad as he was, all the other promoters were worse.

• 1:47:58Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:59Speaker 02

  No, I'm serious.

• 1:48:00Bill Simmons?

  No, I believe you. I'm laughing because you're right.

• 1:48:02Speaker 02

  Vince was like the savior.

• 1:48:05Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:06Speaker 02

  I knew when I went to Vince that final time, I was gonna quit the business. This was it. I'm gonna go try, I'm gonna do this last hurrah with Vince. If it fails, I'm done. If it succeeds, we'll take it to wherever it goes. And fortunately, we succeeded. I was in pretty much, I knew I was gonna do it before, well before I did it, because there's another story behind that, but I won't go into it today. But it's a long one, but Vince actually did me a great favor.

• 1:48:44Speaker 02

  Along the way. And that's why I had loyalty to him.

• 1:48:49Bill Simmons?

  Okay.

• 1:48:50Speaker 02

  And I'll just leave it at that.

• 1:48:52Bill Simmons?

  A favor in the early eighties, mid eighties or late eighties?

• 1:48:54Speaker 02

  Uh, early eighties to mid eighties. When the jump happened.

• 1:48:59Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:49:00Speaker 02

  Well, I'll tell you the final straw of why I jumped. From the AWA to Vince. Want to hear that?

• 1:49:07Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:49:09Speaker 02

  Uh, I was with Saido then, Mr. Torture.

• 1:49:12Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:49:13Speaker 02

  And we were, of course, the, the, uh, Far East West Connection. And, uh, me and Torch were wrestling tag team then in the AWA and Vince was just starting to make his big move. And they ran lacrosse, Wisconsin. And we went down there and we did an angle for a cage match. Right? And so three weeks later, we came, we got the payoff. It was okay. Three weeks later, we came back to lacrosse, me and Saido for the cage match. And Vern and Greg were on their yearly Aspen vacation.

• 1:49:52Bill Simmons?

  The Ganyas.

• 1:49:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, where, where they go up to Aspen and ski and have fun. Uh, that's what they were doing then, when we had the, the rematch in lacrosse. And it was in the cage and the house jumped. I think 20 to 25,000 dollars. Right? In business. And I got my paycheck. And I got less money.

• 1:50:17Bill Simmons?

  Hmm.

• 1:50:18Speaker 02

  And this was at a time when Hogan had just jumped.

• 1:50:24Speaker 02

  And I got paid, the house went up and I got paid less. And Ganyas were on their vacation. Well, I knew who was paying for the vacation. We were. And so, uh, I came up to Wally Carbo and I said, Wally, what the hell is this? I said, the house jumps 25,000 bucks and I get less money? I said, well, the next time I hope nobody's there, I'll get more money. I said, what kind of bullshit is this?

• 1:50:53Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:50:54Speaker 02

  And this is at a time, he should have been taking care of his wrestlers, not cheating them.

• 1:51:02Bill Simmons?

  So is that?

• 1:51:04Speaker 02

  And that's what happened and look, and that was the final straw for me. I said, I'm jumping to Vince.

• 1:51:10Bill Simmons?

  Best, best guy you ever wrestled against? Most impressed you were by another wrestler, who was it?

• 1:51:17Speaker 02

  Uh, uh, say that again?

• 1:51:20Bill Simmons?

  All right, you wrestled a bunch of guys.

• 1:51:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:51:23Bill Simmons?

  From 75 to 86. Who is the best one? Who is the best in-ring guy you wrestled?

• 1:51:28Speaker 02

  I don't know who the best was, but the guy I liked to wrestle and work with the most was Tito Santana.

• 1:51:35Bill Simmons?

  Really? Why?

• 1:51:37Speaker 02

  Because Tito and I go back to the AWA and we, we were on the same wavelength. He, he understood my style and he adapted completely to me. And he had total confidence that it was, when it was his time, I would always give it to him. And I never had a bad match ever with Tito Santana. I would say right with him would be Jimmy Snuka.

• 1:52:08Bill Simmons?

  Hmm.

• 1:52:10Speaker 02

  You know?

• 1:52:11Bill Simmons?

  My first favorite.

• 1:52:13Speaker 02

  Jimmy, Jimmy Snuka, Tito Santana.

• 1:52:16Bill Simmons?

  Was, was Snuka doing the stuff in Portland? Was he doing the jump off the top rope, all that stuff, even in the mid 70s?

• 1:52:22Speaker 02

  He was doing everything and everyone was saying, Jimmy, why are you wasting it here? Get to New York.

• 1:52:29Bill Simmons?

  Right, you need a bigger audience.

• 1:52:31Speaker 02

  There had to have been 10 to 15 people that told Jimmy Snuka to get to New York.

• 1:52:40Speaker 02

  And I, and I was one of them because I wanted him there because I knew I wouldn't be far behind.

• 1:52:48Speaker 02

  And if I, and if he wasn't a villain out there, I knew I'd get to work with him.

• 1:52:52Bill Simmons?

  Right. What was the most memorable main event that you did a broadcast for? Cause I have a couple in my head.

• 1:52:59Speaker 02

  What's the most memorable match I ever did was Macho Steamboat. That's the greatest match.

• 1:53:04Bill Simmons?

  That's WrestleMania three. What about the twin Hebners? You did that one, right?

• 1:53:09Speaker 02

  Probably, I think so.

• 1:53:12Bill Simmons?

  With that, when Hogan lost the title because the twin referee came out?

• 1:53:15Speaker 02

  Oh yeah, I vaguely remember it. Now that was a good one. Yeah, the Hebner brothers. That was a good one. See, you're reminding me of this stuff. I don't have memory of a lot of it.

• 1:53:27Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, you're in the grind.

• 1:53:28Speaker 02

  And I, and I'll tell you why. When Hogan got me bumped out of WCW.

• 1:53:36Speaker 02

  That was it.

• 1:53:37Bill Simmons?

  Just.

• 1:53:38Speaker 02

  I stopped watching. I didn't pay attention. I, I vaguely only remember the, the, the Rock against Stone Cold.

• 1:53:48Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:53:49Speaker 02

  I know that was huge, but I wasn't watching it. It had nothing to do with me.

• 1:53:55Bill Simmons?

  What?

• 1:53:55Speaker 02

  And I, I moved on. Put it this way, I moved on with my life.

• 1:54:00Bill Simmons?

  You moved on, moved forward.

• 1:54:01Speaker 02

  I, I wasn't gonna let wrestling define me.

• 1:54:06Bill Simmons?

  So, Running Man versus Predator, what movie gets mentioned more to you over the last?

• 1:54:12Speaker 02

  Oh Predator.

• 1:54:13Bill Simmons?

  Thirty-five years. Predator more, okay.

• 1:54:15Speaker 02

  Predator.

• 1:54:17Bill Simmons?

  What is the number one thing that, that you get asked about it?

• 1:54:20Speaker 02

  It's my film.

• 1:54:25Speaker 02

  No, certain films have lines that define them.

• 1:54:32Speaker 02

  And if you go to Predator.

• 1:54:34Bill Simmons?

  You have the, you have the most famous line.

• 1:54:36Speaker 02

  The defining line of the movie, I ain't got time to bleed.

• 1:54:40Bill Simmons?

  I can't argue with that.

• 1:54:41Speaker 02

  Okay, just as in Terminator, Arnold's, I'll be back.

• 1:54:47Bill Simmons?

  So have you told Arnold this? Hey, just FYI, I had the best line in Predator.

• 1:54:51Speaker 02

  No. Why would I do that?

• 1:54:54Bill Simmons?

  Because you could.

• 1:54:55Speaker 02

  That's up. That's all up to. That's all. There's no one that can say it was or wasn't. That's all up to the discretion of anybody. I'm just saying 20th Century Fox printed it on a T-shirt. And, and, you know, I, I, I feel great because every film usually has one line that defines it.

• 1:55:17Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:18Speaker 02

  And I had a supporting role. In fact, the biggest complaint that I receive on Predator is that I died too soon.

• 1:55:26Bill Simmons?

  Well, that's my biggest complaint.

• 1:55:28Speaker 02

  But see, then I have to inform you, it had to be that way.

• 1:55:34Bill Simmons?

  Why?

• 1:55:35Speaker 02

  Why?

• 1:55:36Bill Simmons?

  We could have, you could have made it 15 more minutes.

• 1:55:39Speaker 02

  No. No. It had to be that way. You know why?

• 1:55:44Bill Simmons?

  Why?

• 1:55:44Speaker 02

  I was the toughest guy. And you noticed I was the only one that had a funeral.

• 1:55:55Bill Simmons?

  Alright. Yeah.

• 1:55:57Speaker 02

  Okay. And here's the biggest thing. When I died is when the platoon went to shit.

• 1:56:07Bill Simmons?

  The stakes got higher.

• 1:56:08Speaker 02

  Blaine was dead. Blaine doesn't die. Blaine doesn't die. This guy is the closest thing to Superman. He's been through all these wars, all these incursions, walked out of every one of them. How can Blaine be dead? What could kill Blaine? That's why I had to die. Remember when Sonny Landem turns and says, we're all gonna die? Because why? Blaine was dead.

• 1:56:40Bill Simmons?

  And you were there for the Van Damme stuff. Van Damme. The Van Dam playing the Predator for like a couple of minutes, right? And then he got fired.

• 1:56:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, I was there when John came down.

• 1:56:51Bill Simmons?

  So, so when he became a star later, were you like that guy?

• 1:56:55Speaker 02

  No, not at all. John had Jean Claude had talent. Jean Claude, uh, he was living out of his trunk at the time when I met him. And that was the first job he ever got. And I think he didn't understand that he thought he was going to be running through the jungle and all the girls were going to see his handsome, pretty face. And I don't, and I think when he got down there, he realized nobody was going to see his pretty face.

• 1:57:23Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:57:23Speaker 02

  He was going to be inside of some type of suit and they hired him because they thought he'd be agile with his karate stuff. Well, he wasn't.

• 1:57:35Bill Simmons?

  Not that soon.

• 1:57:36Speaker 02

  No, and he, and they fired him and they got Kevin Peter Hall, a seven foot one black man.

• 1:57:44Speaker 02

  And Kevin filled out the suit a lot better.

• 1:57:48Bill Simmons?

  Well, how much, how much?

• 1:57:49Speaker 02

  I don't know. I never saw the Predator ever.

• 1:57:53Bill Simmons?

  What do you mean?

• 1:57:53Speaker 02

  A screening in Chicago.

• 1:57:55Bill Simmons?

  Oh. How?

• 1:57:57Speaker 02

  And what's good about that? I'm not supposed to see it. It's invisible, isn't it?

• 1:58:04Bill Simmons?

  Well, when you watch it now, the special effects, because we didn't have in the eighties, it was, it was tough.

• 1:58:08Speaker 02

  It was invisible. That's why I couldn't see it in the first place. I only saw it for the first time at a screening in Chicago. We had to pretend it was killing us. We couldn't see it. I never saw what it was going to look like.

• 1:58:25Bill Simmons?

  You were just acting.

• 1:58:27Speaker 02

  Yes. I, I never saw the Predator till they created it long after we were done shooting.

• 1:58:36Bill Simmons?

  How much input did you have over Captain Freedom's workout video? In Running Man?

• 1:58:42Speaker 02

  In Running Man?

• 1:58:44Bill Simmons?

  Hey, you had a whole workout video in that.

• 1:58:46Speaker 02

  A complete freedom. Like my name. Do you want to hear the backstory?

• 1:58:51Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:52Speaker 02

  Oh, it's a great one. Running Man. So I'm the retired stalker who now has this physical fitness show on TV, right?

• 1:59:02Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:59:03Speaker 02

  That's, that's what I do now as well as color commentate the, the, the Running Man game.

• 1:59:08Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:59:08Speaker 02

  And so I have my workout thing in the day. So what occurred was this, uh, when they needed to do that, she wasn't famous yet for singing. That was due to happen in like a year or two. But they sent me over to this nice little beautiful young woman by the name of Paula Abdul. And they sent me over to her, uh, dance studio. Cause Paula's one of the, at the time, one of the top choreographers in Hollywood. And I'll never forget, she knew what she had to do. I knew basically what I was there for.

• 1:59:51Speaker 02

  And I remember Paula Abdul, she got famous singing a couple of years later. But she came up to me that day and it was hilarious. I'm 260 pounds, this hulking big monster. And she's this bitzy little tiny girl, athletic as hell, can do all this, got these skinny girls that can do all this dancing in Hollywood. And she looks at me and she goes, looks at me and smiles and she says, what can you do?

• 2:00:24Bill Simmons?

  What was the answer?

• 2:00:25Speaker 02

  Wait, wait. And I looked at her and at the time at home, I had started taking aerobics. And I had done aerobics, I challenged myself. I had gotten up to level three, an hour and a half with David Gray, the Crystal Light National Aerobics Champion. He was my instructor in Minneapolis, the Crystal Light National Aerobics Champion. So I looked at Paula Abdul, I said, well, I said, for the last few months, I'm getting ready for this, I've been doing aerobics.

• 2:01:05Speaker 02

  She looked at me a big smile. She says, great. She goes, you do aerobics, we'll dance around you. I went, okay. And that's what we did. I went out and went through aerobic routines and Paula choreographed all the girls to dance around my routines and make it work.

• 2:01:33Speaker 02

  And there you have Captain Freedom's workout.

• 2:01:37Bill Simmons?

  So you worked with Hogan and Schwarzenegger during this mid eighties testosterone, very patriotic time in America.

• 2:01:46Speaker 02

  And Stallone.

• 2:01:47Bill Simmons?

  So where, when did you work with Stallone?

• 2:01:49Speaker 02

  Demoman.

• 2:01:51Bill Simmons?

  Oh, yeah, that was nineties, though. I was thinking more eighties.

• 2:01:54Speaker 02

  Well, okay, that was late nineties and they also cut their fight scene completely.

• 2:02:00Bill Simmons?

  Well, I was gonna say, I, cause you couldn't have worked with Stallone in the eighties because you were so much bigger than him. I don't know how they would have done that.

• 2:02:06Speaker 02

  I was bigger than him in the nineties.

• 2:02:11Speaker 02

  I don't, I forgot. I don't have to lead in the mic.

• 2:02:14Bill Simmons?

  No, no, but I mean, it is funny because that era of lot of muscles, Predator is the peak of it because Predator just has entire bicep scenes. It was just close up of oiled biceps, just where we were in 1987.

• 2:02:28Speaker 02

  Well, the great thing about Arnold is he's not insecure.

• 2:02:33Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:02:34Speaker 02

  When you've won Mr. Olympia seven times. Come on.

• 2:02:41Speaker 02

  That's the best built man in the world.

• 2:02:43Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:02:43Speaker 02

  And he won it seven times. Arnold, Arnold doesn't have insecurities. Arnold doesn't care that I'm two or three inches taller than him. He's, that doesn't bother him.

• 2:02:55Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. You're playing pranks on the set with them. There's good YouTube stuff about you playing pranks with that, trying to convince people you had bigger biceps than him, all that stuff.

• 2:03:05Speaker 02

  Oh, I think that really got blown out of proportion. I, uh, we, we did, we did more, um, I don't know. The thing about doing a Schwarzenegger film is you're gonna have fun. That's the fun part about it. Arnold never takes himself too seriously, only when he has to. You know, you know, I was also in the trailer with him, sitting right there. When these guys came up to him, we weren't even finished doing Predator.

• 2:03:36Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:03:36Speaker 02

  And these guys were approaching him about the sequel.

• 2:03:41Speaker 02

  Predator two.

• 2:03:43Bill Simmons?

  Which they did without him.

• 2:03:45Speaker 02

  Wait, I won't say the money because it's no one's business.

• 2:03:48Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:03:49Speaker 02

  But I sat right there and they offered Arnold, and this was nineteen eighty-five, eighty-six. They offered him so much money to do Predator two. When they, and he turned them down flat.

• 2:04:04Speaker 02

  When they left, I looked at him. And I said, Arnold, it's just him and I. I said, how in the hell do you turn down? And I said the figure. Arnold looked at me and smiled, you know, and he said to me. Jesse, the time is not right. And he was right.

• 2:04:24Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:04:25Speaker 02

  The Predator sequel was a bomb.

• 2:04:30Speaker 02

  People know, look at what he did on Terminator. He made them wait seven years. He made the public want the sequel.

• 2:04:40Bill Simmons?

  Smart. I mean, he, he constructed his career the best.

• 2:04:43Speaker 02

  If you come out with a seek, if you come out with a sequel immediately after the film. Everybody knows it's just a money ripoff.

• 2:04:53Bill Simmons?

  That's true.

• 2:04:54Speaker 02

  They're capitalizing on the, Arnold wouldn't fall victim to that.

• 2:04:59Speaker 02

  The money he turned down, you would have been astounded. And he turned them, I won't say it because it's no one's business. But, uh, in fact, I raised, I said, hey, Blaine will do, bring Blaine's twin brother, he'll do it for half.

• 2:05:15Speaker 02

  I said, you can resurrect me, I'll do it for half.

• 2:05:18Bill Simmons?

  Oh my God, there he is.

• 2:05:20Speaker 02

  Blaine's twin brother, there he is, he'll do it for half.

• 2:05:23Bill Simmons?

  He's fighting in Korea.

• 2:05:26Bill Simmons?

  When Arnold ran in California, did he talk to you about it? Cause you had already been through to Minnesota.

• 2:05:32Speaker 02

  Just did. No, Arnold and I never discussed politics once.

• 2:05:38Speaker 02

  During my campaign or during his, he lives in California. I live in Minnesota. Why am I going to campaign for him in California? What the hell is he going to say in Minnesota?

• 2:05:48Bill Simmons?

  Well, I don't think he had to campaign, but he could ask you for advice about being a non politician. Who's a celebrity trying to run for stuff.

• 2:05:56Speaker 02

  He didn't need it and neither did I. We both won, didn't we?

• 2:06:00Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, true.

• 2:06:00Speaker 02

  So we must've did it right, didn't we?

• 2:06:03Bill Simmons?

  And then Trump does it in 2016. And steals some of your playbook.

• 2:06:08Speaker 02

  He took all of it.

• 2:06:11Speaker 02

  He's still riding it and they won't admit it. They won't, he took all of it. Took my playbook every, I didn't raise money. I held rallies. You know how much money I raised to become governor?

• 2:06:24Bill Simmons?

  Wasn't it like less than a million bucks?

• 2:06:26Speaker 02

  300,000.

• 2:06:27Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:06:28Speaker 02

  That's all I raised. If I ran for, I'll tell you what, I, I could have beat either one. I could have won the presidency if I had, if Mark Cuban would have backed me financially. Like, uh, who do you call it back Trump? I'd have beat both of them if I'd have wanted to.

• 2:06:44Bill Simmons?

  What year, 2016?

• 2:06:45Speaker 02

  Right now. And Trump knows it. You want to know why he knows it? He's in the pro wrestling hall of fame. He knows damn well, I'm the greatest talker there's ever been in wrestling. He knows damn well, he couldn't hold a candle to me. If I had a debate with him, the best thing he could do would be sit in the chair, keep his mouth shut and let me talk.

• 2:07:09Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, physically he would be able to intimidate you.

• 2:07:12Speaker 02

  Oh, not a bit. Donald Trump knows deep in his heart and Jesse Ventura's never lost an election. I would have been the biggest threat he'd have ever had out there because I'd have beat him.

• 2:07:25Bill Simmons?

  Well, he wrote, he wrote a book.

• 2:07:27Speaker 02

  Why else I'd have beat him? I ain't a criminal.

• 2:07:32Bill Simmons?

  He wrote a book in 2000 and he was talking about how you got elected governor in Minnesota. And he said, it's because he talks straight. Non-politicians like Ventura are the wave of the future. He wrote that in 2000. He wasn't wrong on that one.

• 2:07:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, yes, he was though, in a way, because he didn't talk straight.

• 2:07:51Bill Simmons?

  Well, I'm just saying, non-politicians.

• 2:07:53Speaker 02

  He took it beyond that. He took it to wrestling, lied about everything.

• 2:07:57Bill Simmons?

  Well, and he also learned some stuff from Vince, too.

• 2:08:00Speaker 02

  Well, no, no, and I mean, lied about every, he just say whatever he wanted to say. I'll be interested now and I'll leave it at this. Let's watch in the next four years, how much of that stuff gets implemented.

• 2:08:15Bill Simmons?

  You liked him in 2015 when he was running. You were for it.

• 2:08:18Speaker 02

  No, I wasn't necessarily. I don't support Democrats or Republicans. He joined the Republican Party and he even did worse. He joined the ultra-conservative evangelical right.

• 2:08:35Speaker 02

  Pretty hard for an agnostic atheist to support that.

• 2:08:40Bill Simmons?

  Why didn't you run again after oh three?

• 2:08:43Speaker 02

  Uh, multiple reasons.

• 2:08:47Speaker 02

  Personal, uh, more to do in life.

• 2:08:52Speaker 02

  I could have won easily. I remember when I had the highest approval ratings in Minnesota history at 73%, 72%. And I remember right before reelection was due to happen, I had fallen to 49%. And the media immediately challenged me and said, oh my God, for the first time, you're under 50%. I looked at the media and I said, are you guys really that stupid? I said, you must consider something. It's a three-person race. If I'm at forty-nine percent, that means I'm up twelve. I won with thirty-seven.

• 2:09:37Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 2:09:39Speaker 02

  So if I'm now at forty-nine, I'm up twelve. I'm, it's a landslide. People forget, in a three-person race, the dynamics change.

• 2:09:50Bill Simmons?

  You were not a huge fan of the media when you were, when you were governor.

• 2:09:53Speaker 02

  Only be, mainly because they attacked my children.

• 2:09:57Bill Simmons?

  Hmm.

• 2:09:57Speaker 02

  They couldn't attack nothing else, so they had to go after my son. They had to go after my kids.

• 2:10:03Bill Simmons?

  Well, that sounded like that was a big reason why you didn't want to do it again.

• 2:10:06Speaker 02

  One of the reasons. The other was money.

• 2:10:11Speaker 02

  You know how much I was being governor for? Let's get it on the board. All right? When I was governor, I got paid a hundred and twenty thousand a year.

• 2:10:22Speaker 02

  You know how much the football coach at the University of Minnesota makes? Four to five million a year.

• 2:10:29Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 2:10:30Speaker 02

  So I guess coaching football has more responsibility than being governor. I can only assume that by how our society pays. The governor makes, now he makes a hundred and fifty, but at my time, it was a hundred and twenty, and the football coach makes four million, five million. Okay, out of the hundred and twenty thousand, I had to pay taxes.

• 2:10:55Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:10:56Speaker 02

  Right?

• 2:10:58Speaker 02

  Out of the hundred and twenty thousand, I also had to pay for my car

• 2:11:04Speaker 02

  that drove me around. They deduct the mileage to and from the Capitol. They only let you have it during the workday. So I said to them, okay, I'll drive my private car to the Capitol, then I'll take the governor's car, so I don't get charged money. Oh, public safety come in, said, you can't do that. Why? We need you in the governor's car because it's got the weapons and the safety and the radios. So it's a catch-22. They stick, make you use the car and then charge you for it. It comes out of your paycheck.

• 2:11:41Speaker 02

  It don't end there. You know what else I had to pay for? Every meal that me and my family ate at the governor's residence is deducted out of my pay.

• 2:11:52Bill Simmons?

  So you were like writing books when you were in office. You were doing a bunch of different things to try to make more money.

• 2:11:57Speaker 02

  Well, I was, I was being governor of Minnesota in the end. I'd say for 40 grand a year.

• 2:12:06Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:12:09Bill Simmons?

  There you go.

• 2:12:10Speaker 02

  And, and I'm in charge of a 16 billion dollar budget.

• 2:12:19Speaker 02

  Uh, what do you think I'd be making if I was the CEO in the private sector? Of a 16 billion dollar company? If I was the CEO, 120 a year?

• 2:12:31Bill Simmons?

  Well, it sounds like you should have been the football coach.

• 2:12:34Speaker 02

  Yeah. It pays a lot better. I might, I might even win more. But anyway, uh, no, that was a reason I didn't run again, being honest, the money.

• 2:12:46Speaker 02

  Oh, I could have, I guess I could have made more money if I wanted to become corrupt.

• 2:12:52Speaker 02

  You know? If I'd have wanted to sell my soul to rock and roll and take some payola, I, I suppose there was money to be made. Jesse was just too naive and Jesse's just too honest. I don't do that. I, that's called public service. I did 14 years of it. Six in the Navy, four as a governor and four as a mayor.

• 2:13:15Bill Simmons?

  Looking back, what was the most fair criticism of you as a politician?

• 2:13:20Speaker 02

  Probably that I speak first before I think.

• 2:13:25Speaker 02

  That I'll react and say something that I'll, then they'll, I'll have to, uh, make amends for it because you're in the political arena. That's what's wonderful now about coming back to wrestling.

• 2:13:38Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. You don't have to worry about that. Right?

• 2:13:41Speaker 02

  Handcuffs are off. I can say anything I want about anyone.

• 2:13:48Bill Simmons?

  Sounds like you're excited about this.

• 2:13:50Speaker 02

  I am. I'm very excited about it. I mean, I, I, well, I'm, I don't discuss finances, but, uh, it's acceptable. And, uh, I'll be doing four a year.

• 2:14:06Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Well, the bigger thing is that you're you're back, which always felt stupid that you weren't back.

• 2:14:13Speaker 02

  I'm back and and and for me, it's it's it's concluding a career that probably never should have finished.

• 2:14:21Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 2:14:22Speaker 02

  And maybe now there'll be closure.

• 2:14:25Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:14:26Speaker 02

  Jesse can broadcast till he dies and then they can have my WWE funeral.

• 2:14:32Bill Simmons?

  Well, I said, you don't know, I you said you don't like looking back. But when I think of the 80s, as wrestling blows up, you're you're right at the center of all of it. Hogan's leading the way and there's probably like five, six, seven, eight other guys right behind or helping push it up. You were one of those people.

• 2:14:50Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 2:14:50Bill Simmons?

  And I especially like the TV stuff was so good.

• 2:14:54Speaker 02

  Wrestling changed then from becoming a live spectator sport, drawing the money.

• 2:15:05Bill Simmons?

  Territorial life.

• 2:15:06Speaker 02

  The big money then became television, like it is in all sports. I remember when I broadcast football for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. I did their two years of Buccaneer football down in Tampa. And I remember that Hugh Culverhouse paid off, he was the owner of the Bucks. He paid all his bills, including all the players, everything with his TV contract. So that people in the seats, that was all his profit.

• 2:15:44Speaker 02

  He he all the people that sold out Tampa Stadium every week to see the Bucks play. That was pure Hughes money.

• 2:15:54Bill Simmons?

  Geez.

• 2:15:54Speaker 02

  Because because the TV contract paid for all the rest.

• 2:15:58Bill Simmons?

  So as we head into 2025, you're in closure with WWE. You'll be back on TV a little bit. Dee, before we go, how are you feeling about politics in the mid 2020s? Because you never really liked the two party system and you're a huge critic of it. That was really one of your pieces of your platform. Where are we now as we head into the mid 2020s?

• 2:16:18Speaker 02

  We're still part of the two party dictatorship. I like to I like to steal that term from my friend Ralph Nader. Ralph used that, the two party dictatorship, because that's what it is. It's a two party dictatorship. The only problem I here, you want to know where I'm at? It's simple. It's real simple. Um, I took an oath over 50 years ago. And I took this oath before I married my wife. And this summer, my wife and I are going to celebrate our 50th wedding anniversary.

• 2:16:55Bill Simmons?

  Wow, congrats.

• 2:16:57Speaker 02

  Well, I'd like to proudly say, name me any other couple in wrestling.

• 2:17:06Speaker 02

  Who can now say they're going to celebrate their 50th wedding anniversary? Well, but I took this oath before I took an oath to her. And I honor my oaths, obviously to her for 50 years now. And the oath I took before that was the oath to the Constitution of the United States of America. I took an oath to that Constitution. And unfortunately, January 6th. Uh, in my opinion, and I don't give a shit what anyone else says, I watched it.

• 2:17:49Speaker 02

  Our Constitution was attacked and violated. And there was an attempted coup d'etat. And the people that did it, in my opinion, committed treason. And they should have been convicted for their treasonous activity of overrunning our Capitol and carrying a Confederate flag to my Capitol of the United States of America. They carried a Confederate flag, the Republicans. And they have not apologized for it, not one of them. And they still today have not apologized for it. And what did they do?

• 2:18:34Speaker 02

  They didn't get convicted for it. So they rallied up and they now have taken the power and the control. So as far as I'm concerned, this country doesn't have a Constitution anymore. Because the people in charge don't care about a Constitution. They violated it already and they'll violate it again as soon as they need to.

• 2:19:00Bill Simmons?

  Oof, it's a tough way to end the convo, but I guess we're gonna end it there.

• 2:19:05Speaker 02

  Well, um, please, please, please correct me if I'm wrong.

• 2:19:09Bill Simmons?

  I didn't say you're wrong.

• 2:19:11Speaker 02

  No, I'm just saying that. And I, people may say I, I've sure got a narrow, yeah, I do. Cause I took an oath to defend the constitution of the United States of America and I failed. And I don't like to fail. And let's remember something. I believe it was Ben Franklin said to us. We've given you a republic if you can keep it. Well, I believe we lost it this year.

• 2:19:39Bill Simmons?

  Jesse Ventura, it was great to finally have you on the pod. Uh, congrats on returning to the WWE. December 14th, Saturday night's main event, you're back.

• 2:19:52Speaker 02

  Well, what you got today is just a sample.

• 2:19:55Bill Simmons?

  I can't wait. Great to see you. I'm glad you're doing well.

• 2:19:58Speaker 02

  Take care.

• 2:20:00Bill Simmons?

  All right. That's it for the podcast. Thanks to Jesse Ventura. Thanks to Joe House. Thanks to Steve Seru and Kyle Crichton. Thanks to everybody who came to the live show in Denver. I will be back on Sunday. You can join me and the Cuz on Sunday night on my YouTube feed. The Bill Simmons channel. Uh, maybe I'll make an appearance on the Ringer Sunday pregame show on YouTube TV as well. Who knows? Depends what kind of mood I'm in. Enjoy the weekend. I will see you on Sunday night.

• 2:20:51Bill Simmons?

  Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas and affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in DC. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-887-897777. Or visit ccpg.org/chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplineMA.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24/7 support in Massachusetts. Or call 1-8778-HOPE.

• 2:21:23Bill Simmons?

  NY or text HOPE NY in New York. This episode is brought to you by Searchlight Pictures Wild Horse 9. John Malkovich and Sam Rockwell, I like those guys, star in the sharp-witted comedy thriller from Academy Award winner Martin McDonagh. Writer-director of The Banshees of Minneh Sharon and Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri, set in the 1970s, filmed on location on Easter Island. Malkovich and Rockwell play CIA agents Chris and Lee, who are caught in a dangerous game of secrets and survival. Also starring Steve Buscemi, another one of my guys. Parker Posey and Tom Waits. Wild Horse 9 is being hailed by critics as a revitalizing shot of pure entertainment and easily one of the best films of the year.

• 2:22:07Bill Simmons?

  Don't miss Wild Horse 9, only in theaters Friday. Get tickets now.