A Conversation with Jordan Klepper

Neil deGrasse Tyson and Jordan Klepper explore comedy, politics, the future of American space exploration, the similarities between HI-SEAS and an improv troupe, space camp, and Jordan’s new documentary show “Klepper.” NOTE: StarTalk All-Access subscribers can watch or listen to this entire episode commercial-free. Find out more here: https://www.startalkradio.net/all-access/a-conversation-with-jordan-klepper/ Photo Credit: StarTalk©.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  From the American Museum of Natural History in New York City, and beaming out across all of space and time, this is StarTalk, where science and pop culture collide.

• 0:27Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  This is StarTalk, and I'm your host, Neil deGrasse Tyson, your personal astrophysicist, and we are coming to you from my office at the Hayden Planetarium of the American Museum of Natural History, right here in New York City. And today, I have a special guest, and he's gonna be my only guest for this hour. We don't do that often. It's only if everything clicks and all cylinders are in place. I've got with me the one and only Jordan Klepper. Jordan!

• 0:57Jordan Klepper?

  Yes!

• 0:58Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Dude, welcome to StarTalk, your first time!

• 0:59Jordan Klepper?

  This is my first time, thanks for having me. A lot of pressure.

• 1:01Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Excellent!

• 1:02Jordan Klepper?

  The only one here?

• 1:03Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I'm not saying there's no pressure.

• 1:04Jordan Klepper?

  Yeah, you're making it very... And by not saying that, you're making it very clear. Okay, we can do this.

• 1:09Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, welcome. You've got a show on Comedy Central. You've been spawned from... From The Daily Show.

• 1:17Jordan Klepper?

  I'd like to think that.

• 1:18Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Spun off.

• 1:19Jordan Klepper?

  Yes, spawned, birthed into the world.

• 1:21Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Birthed, hatched.

• 1:22Jordan Klepper?

  Through the magic of Jon Stewart and Trevor Noah.

• 1:25Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, cuz you worked for both of them.

• 1:26Jordan Klepper?

  I worked for both, yes. And they pushed me now through their lovely comedy cavity into the world.

• 1:32Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Through their birth canal.

• 1:33Jordan Klepper?

  Yes, their birth canal.

• 1:34Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  There you go. You've got a show, you command the whole hour with very high production values. You're going around the world, subjecting yourself to different things, interviewing people. And in particular, the reason why we noticed you recently is because we saw that you've got a show. On the space program.

• 1:54Jordan Klepper?

  Yeah.

• 1:54Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And so, we'll get to that in a minute.

• 1:56Jordan Klepper?

  Okay, okay.

• 1:57Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I just don't want you to think we would have asked you on here for any old reason.

• 2:00Jordan Klepper?

  Yeah, you're just like, you did a lot of other episodes that we don't care about.

• 2:04Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I didn't want to say it that way.

• 2:05Jordan Klepper?

  You actually do some stuff that legitimizes you in my mind. And Neil, this was for you. I knew it. I knew. I did six episodes. I'm like, Neil is not gonna be into any of these.

• 2:13Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You need one of them, just to...

• 2:14Jordan Klepper?

  Let's give him some space.

• 2:16Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  To pop through here. I just wanna look at your background here. You had a double major in math and theater.

• 2:23Jordan Klepper?

  Yeah.

• 2:24Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  How does that work?

• 2:26Jordan Klepper?

  Boy, I tell ya, I, so I went to...

• 2:28Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And where was this?

• 2:28Jordan Klepper?

  This is in Kalamazoo, Michigan.

• 2:29Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Kalamazoo? I was just in Kalamazoo.

• 2:32Jordan Klepper?

  You were in Kalamazoo?

• 2:33Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Just like a few weeks ago.

• 2:35Jordan Klepper?

  What were you doing in Kalamazoo, Michigan? I wanna know. Neil, I'm also part host as well, so this might, I might flip the...

• 2:41Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, okay. Whoa, whoa, Jordan.

• 2:43Jordan Klepper?

  Thank you.

• 2:44Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, first, did you know that our very own Derek Jeter was raised in Kalamazoo, Michigan?

• 2:51Jordan Klepper?

  Neil, as somebody who grew up in Kalamazoo, I of course knew that, because I've lived in the shadow.

• 2:56Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Judges, judges, do we?

• 2:58Jordan Klepper?

  The shadow of Derek Jeter. It's a long shadow.

• 3:01Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Everyone else has to live up to that.

• 3:02Jordan Klepper?

  Let me tell you. What's the longest shadow? It's not high noon. That's the smallest shadow, right?

• 3:07Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yes, it is, in fact. Small shadow of the day.

• 3:09Jordan Klepper?

  So what are we talking? He's like a 6:00 PM shadow in Kalamazoo. He went to my high school just before I did, and Derek Jeter was, he was a hero. I knew his sister, Charli, and everybody thought Derek Jeter, he was such a good athlete, he was going to be a professional basketball player.

• 3:24Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Basketball player.

• 3:25Jordan Klepper?

  He was great at basketball.

• 3:26Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, you make more money in baseball. You play more games, so all the money comes out better.

• 3:30Jordan Klepper?

  He knew that.

• 3:31Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And you can play the sport longer, too.

• 3:33Jordan Klepper?

  Exactly. I think he made the right choice. I think, we're not the best prognosticators in Kalamazoo. So I grew up there. I went to a place called the Nerd Farm, which is the math and science center, which means you go to a special math and science school.

• 3:44Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I'm biased, so that's why I say it's nice.

• 3:45Jordan Klepper?

  See, I'm, this is right, I'm feeding this right to you.

• 3:48Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  If I was one of your other friends, I might've said, "What's wrong with you, dude?"

• 3:51Jordan Klepper?

  If this was the Joe Rogan podcast, I'd be talking about my public school for the other half of the day. But for you, Neil, I'm talking about the Nerd Farm.

• 3:57Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  The Nerd Farm. We loving it, we loving it. So what happens? So you're in school, they notice you have a little geek in you.

• 4:02Jordan Klepper?

  I got some geek.

• 4:03Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And so they put you in the Nerd Farm.

• 4:04Jordan Klepper?

  They put you in the Nerd Farm if you got a little geek. They got, they got special facilities for the geeks. You focus on math, you focus on science. You spend four years doing that for half the school day and for the other half you go to the public school.

• 4:15Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Wow, so they nurture this.

• 4:16Jordan Klepper?

  They nurture it.

• 4:16Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Very enlightened system.

• 4:18Jordan Klepper?

  Yeah, Kalamazoo is really proud of it. The Math and Science Center, it's, and students go in all different directions afterwards, but it's sort of a chance for people to kind of indulge that geeky side.

• 4:28Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I gave a public talk in Kalamazoo in a four-city tour of Michigan just recently.

• 4:33Jordan Klepper?

  Yeah.

• 4:34Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah.

• 4:34Jordan Klepper?

  It's a great town. I loved it.

• 4:36Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It was fun, very friendly people and sort of unpretentious, just people just want to be themselves and want to learn.

• 4:43Jordan Klepper?

  They're kind folk. The motto in Kalamazoo is, "Yes, there really is a Kalamazoo."

• 4:49Jordan Klepper?

  I love it. It's already defensive.

• 4:50Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Because it's already like, because they're like, "What are you, from Kalamazoo? It's not even real."

• 4:55Jordan Klepper?

  Well, it is real. Yes, there really is a Kalamazoo. It's, I believe it's an old Algonquin word.

• 5:01Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, that's what I figured.

• 5:02Jordan Klepper?

  Yeah, you're already defensive when you come from Kalamazoo.

• 5:04Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, the theater part, how did that fit in?

• 5:06Jordan Klepper?

  Well, so I got a scholarship that paid for my college if I studied math, and I did. And I will say, I was a smart kid, but when you're a math major...

• 5:14Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  We'll be the judge of that.

• 5:15Jordan Klepper?

  Well, you will be. Yeah, TVD. If you edit this correctly, I'm a smart kid.

• 5:21Jordan Klepper?

  I loved math. I love solving problems. I love the process of math. But I also realized within that that that was not something that was...

• 5:28Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Many people think math is getting the answer.

• 5:29Jordan Klepper?

  Right.

• 5:29Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  But it's not.

• 5:30Jordan Klepper?

  It's the process.

• 5:30Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It's the journey to the answer.

• 5:32Jordan Klepper?

  And I would say like, what I ended up finding while I was doing math was, I think I enjoyed the performative elements as well. I started finding improv.

• 5:39Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Performative elements of math?

• 5:40Jordan Klepper?

  Not necessarily, but yes. You know, how do you do it?

• 5:44Jordan Klepper?

  How do you do your math, Neil?

• 5:46Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You on the street corner, I will calculate digits of pi while I dance.

• 5:50Jordan Klepper?

  Who was it? I got seven digits. Who's that? Ten digits?

• 5:53Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Do I hear a ten?

• 5:55Jordan Klepper?

  While I was doing math, I was doing improv and comedy as well, and so that became...

• 5:59Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  As early as high school or was that by then in college?

• 6:02Jordan Klepper?

  I found the improv team in college.

• 6:03Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Nice.

• 6:04Jordan Klepper?

  And...

• 6:04Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And college was?

• 6:05Jordan Klepper?

  Kalamazoo College.

• 6:06Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Kalamazoo College.

• 6:07Jordan Klepper?

  So, little liberal arts college, right smack dab in the middle of Kalamazoo. Improv world popped up, and I was like, "I think I want to play around in that." And it was full of discovery, people laughed at the things I said occasionally.

• 6:19Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That helps.

• 6:20Jordan Klepper?

  It does help. It does help. There was not a ton of laughter or applause in the math class. Linear algebra doesn't have many standing ovations.

• 6:27Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Never, ever did it have a standing ovation.

• 6:29Jordan Klepper?

  It turns out I was so needy that I was like, "I'm going to follow the thing that gives me a standing ovation."

• 6:35Jordan Klepper?

  I will say, as much as like, I then went into the world of comedy, the world of math, it is true, it's a way of thinking, it's about process. And then I kind of go into the world of comedy where you start writing sketch comedy, start doing improv. But in the world of like sketch comedy and writing, there's a process there as well. And I think like that kind of mathematical brain can help an artist or a person in that world try to figure out ways in which they can move an audience to an understanding of what a joke is.

• 6:59Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, you become analytical in it, and I think that has value. And not everything is intuitive. In fact, maybe the best is a combination of both.

• 7:06Jordan Klepper?

  I think so.

• 7:07Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Which you would certainly get, you know, going with the stereotype of, no, you've got both brain halves, you know, tickled.

• 7:15Jordan Klepper?

  I think that's, I've always seen it too, like, there's even, there's the two brain halves in the comedy world.

• 7:20Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I don't know if that's held up, you know, in neuroscience analysis, but it's a nice metaphor for thinking about two ways of approaching the world.

• 7:27Jordan Klepper?

  I think like stand-ups definitely approach things from an analytical perspective. And I'm more of an improviser, which is more of like the creative, let's go search and find. I think ultimately, when you start working, you want a little bit of both. You can search, but eventually you have to figure out why things work and then put it down on paper. And then sell it and see if Coke will buy advertisements.

• 7:46Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, so, this is a sort of obvious question, but maybe not, for some people. You, the portfolio of shows you've been doing now on Comedy Central, what's the name of your show?

• 7:59Jordan Klepper?

  Klepper.

• 8:01Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That is the name of the show.

• 8:02Jordan Klepper?

  That's the name of the show, you know, I've had a-

• 8:03Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That's why I didn't remember the name of your show. I'd even seen a few episodes.

• 8:08Jordan Klepper?

  You know, I've had a handful of shows, and now we're just like, you know what? They're gonna call it, it's that guy, that Klepper guy's show, just call it The Klepper Show.

• 8:14Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Now, there's good precedent, there's the Andy Griffith Show.

• 8:17Jordan Klepper?

  Yep.

• 8:18Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And-

• 8:19Jordan Klepper?

  Mary Tyler Moore.

• 8:20Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Mary Tyler Moore, and they don't say anything what the show's about, it's just a people's name.

• 8:24Jordan Klepper?

  That's the Mary Tyler Moore Show. I think I'd like to think I'm the Frasier of political satire.

• 8:30Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, so you've tackled some very disturbing topics. So what's your formula for making them funny?

• 8:40Jordan Klepper?

  Good question.

• 8:41Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Or do you wait for a moment where there's a silly or fun element? But at the end, you're very socially progressive in what you're trying to get people to do and what you're trying to get them to think. And some of these topics are very sad.

• 8:56Jordan Klepper?

  They are. I think when we started out doing the show, it's essentially a doc series, a documentary series on Comedy Central, which doesn't usually do these types of things. And we wanted to pick topics that were important, that I cared about, that my staff cared about, that we thought needed more attention.

• 9:11Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And one of you were in the bayou?

• 9:13Jordan Klepper?

  I was in the bayou. I followed like-

• 9:14Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  What was the title of that?

• 9:16Jordan Klepper?

  So that one was Battle in the Bayou, which was a group of environmental protests who were locking themselves to pipelines to try to stop the pipeline from moving through the bayou.

• 9:24Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Or get killed.

• 9:25Jordan Klepper?

  Or get killed.

• 9:26Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yes, yes.

• 9:28Jordan Klepper?

  It's like, it's one or the other. It's like, okay, so this was sort of a chance for us to see what environmentalism looks like up close.

• 9:37Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  In the trenches.

• 9:38Jordan Klepper?

  Let's get in the trenches. Get in the boat. That boat ended up sinking, is what I found out. 5:00 a.m. in the bayou.

• 9:45Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Your boat or their boat?

• 9:46Jordan Klepper?

  My boat. I went out with them. They were going to the bayou. They were going to lock themselves up to this pipeline.

• 9:54Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So you're a conservative worm who got in there and sank the boat?

• 9:58Jordan Klepper?

  Don't blow this for me, all right?

• 10:00Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  He's a spy! We got it!

• 10:02Jordan Klepper?

  It turns out-

• 10:03Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Just found him!

• 10:05Jordan Klepper?

  It turns out I'm just an idiotic comedian. Slash conservative spy. Yeah, we found ourselves in the bayou.

• 10:13Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It's not very deep, I don't think.

• 10:14Jordan Klepper?

  It's not super deep. It's wide, though. You know, they said there were alligators down there. We saw them on the way. And we go by the site, and there's a security boat that's there that starts to follow us, and they turn into the wake. We take on a ton of water, and we suddenly find ourselves swimming to the shoreline. So you get wet doing a docu-series. And I think to go back to the idea of where the humor is, like-

• 10:39Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Humor is you didn't get eaten.

• 10:40Jordan Klepper?

  The humor is you don't get eaten. If we put me in a dangerous situation, the audience is gonna feel bad for me. They're gonna see me complain about how hard it is to enact real change, and I become the conduit of difficulty.

• 10:52Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, and that's, that's always good fodder on a stage.

• 10:55Jordan Klepper?

  I think so, that's really, we followed veterans who were like, who were suffering from PTSD. And I think what you find-

• 11:01Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And there was a different episode?

• 11:02Jordan Klepper?

  That's a different episode.

• 11:03Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And what was that one called?

• 11:03Jordan Klepper?

  That one's called, uh, Wrestling with PTSD. Cause they, they do it through, um, uh, literally professional wrestling. And so, they found like a creative way to deal with an actual problem. I get in the ring, I become a part of it. And I think like, the humor comes through me trying to walk in the step-

• 11:19Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  A wrestling singlet?

• 11:21Jordan Klepper?

  I wish it were as, as forgiving as a singlet. What do you call half a singlet?

• 11:27Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I, I, it's like the Speedo you shouldn't be wearing in my, in the 21st century.

• 11:32Jordan Klepper?

  Neil, what is the scientific term for banana hammock?

• 11:37Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I don't know.

• 11:38Jordan Klepper?

  I stumped you, there you go. You gotta Google it, all I know, I think what I saw it as is unflattering. I wore something that did not flatter off what God or the universe gave me.

• 11:47Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Or, or your actual musculature that could otherwise be flattering in a different outfit.

• 11:52Jordan Klepper?

  Exactly. Turns out they hired me for my, my brains, not my body.

• 11:56Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So how did that play out? I mean, did you, did you help, help people recover? Just the fact that, that you, you get to air their story?

• 12:05Jordan Klepper?

  I mean, I think like, part of it is shining light on people who are actually taking action. I think, you know, joking aside, I've gotten to work on some great shows where you're in New York and talking about what's happening out in America. This was a chance to be like, I wanna go out and see people who are doing stuff day in and day out. And-

• 12:19Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  We're in our own bubble here, in New York City.

• 12:21Jordan Klepper?

  We're in a bubble.

• 12:21Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I mean, it's a big bubble, but it's still a bubble.

• 12:23Jordan Klepper?

  It's a bubble. And I think like, I went to Georgia and there were a bunch of students who are DACA students, undocumented students who just wanna go to college. And they're protesting, they're trying to get their voice out. And so I think like-

• 12:32Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Didn't you get arrested?

• 12:33Jordan Klepper?

  I got arrested standing up with those students, so... Yeah, I mean, these are the lengths Comedy Central makes you go through.

• 12:38Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And they let you out?

• 12:39Jordan Klepper?

  They let me out.

• 12:41Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Did they look at the rest-

• 12:43Jordan Klepper?

  I was like, I have a body of work.

• 12:46Jordan Klepper?

  Have you seen my body of work? 12 hours later, after some coughing, just to make sure you're not contraband smuggling, they let you out of jail.

• 12:55Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, that happens.

• 12:56Jordan Klepper?

  But I think, you know, you're hopefully moving the needle by bringing attention to it, and I don't want to pretend like me being down there for a week with people is going to be the thing that changes everything, but hopefully through a little levity and point of view, I can show like, but there are people doing good things. There are people who are fighting, and I think like, even if I fail with some of that fight, we should take a little inspiration from the people who are pushing something forward.

• 13:19Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So what you're really saying is, if the show ever gets canceled, the ones you've completed are still an important contribution to the television repertoire.

• 13:27Jordan Klepper?

  Neil, I'm not saying that. You just said that, I'm gonna type it out, I'm gonna put it on my gravestone. I appreciate that.

• 13:33Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  No, you can be proud of it. I mean, this, you know, who, and by the way, at least in New York, it's airing at 11:30. Why, what's up with that?

• 13:40Jordan Klepper?

  Well, because the Good Old Daily Show takes place right before him.

• 13:43Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  11:30 PM. Oh, so you want the run-in.

• 13:45Jordan Klepper?

  So, in this world of figuring out viewers, they're like, oh, this tends to appeal to people who are politically engaged, interested, and maybe a little bit stoned at 11:30 at night.

• 13:55Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Now, I'm older than you, so you may not remember this. The origin of ABC's 11:30 show, ABC's Nightline.

• 14:04Jordan Klepper?

  Was, was 11:30? That was an 11:30 show?

• 14:08Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, whenever it came on, there is a, there is an origin for it. Its origin story is, it started out as the nightly updates on the hostage crisis in Iran. Day 40, day 150, day this, and then they got all this, all this, this audience that had just birthed the show. And what they were doing is they give the final news story in the, in the evening news, and that would take you right in to this new program that was birthed simply because of Iran coverage.

• 14:37Jordan Klepper?

  Is that right?

• 14:38Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That's what that is. So, so one, the evening news fed the, the follow-up show, and that became its own thing.

• 14:45Jordan Klepper?

  I'd like to think people are tuning into my show with the, the daily hostage crisis that is the American political system. We're all be, we all feel like we're being held hostage. Let's see if this guy says.

• 14:55Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Take someone hostage, yes, yes. On Broadway now is the network with Bryan Cranston.

• 15:00Jordan Klepper?

  Can you give me tickets? Have you seen it?

• 15:02Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You gotta know somebody.

• 15:03Jordan Klepper?

  Neil, you, I'm looking at you, man.

• 15:05Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I'm sorry.

• 15:06Jordan Klepper?

  You're my somebody.

• 15:07Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You got.

• 15:08Jordan Klepper?

  Neil, this is what it is.

• 15:09Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, I did see, I was on like the third row, it was great.

• 15:12Jordan Klepper?

  Oh, now you're rubbing it in.

• 15:13Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, he was extraordinary, and he won the Tony Award for that, so. And guess what, Jordan?

• 15:19Jordan Klepper?

  What?

• 15:20Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It closed.

• 15:21Jordan Klepper?

  Wow.

• 15:22Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So I get to rub it in some more.

• 15:24Jordan Klepper?

  I know, you're a man who likes to focus on real facts.

• 15:26Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  He's a busy guy, he can't, I mean, the show is his performance.

• 15:29Jordan Klepper?

  You don't have to share every fact, Neil. Some facts are best left unshared, like that one. Give me some hope.

• 15:35Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That was, I did learn that from some wise people, they said, just because it's true, doesn't mean it has to be said.

• 15:43Jordan Klepper?

  Now that's, that's a lovely phrase.

• 15:45Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was some government people I worked with.

• 15:48Jordan Klepper?

  Oh.

• 15:49Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, government political types, so, so all truths don't always have to be what you lead with. Let it be true but not advertised. It doesn't mean you want to hide it, you just don't want to display it, that's all.

• 16:02Jordan Klepper?

  I've, I've had a marriage counselor who's said the same thing.

• 16:05Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, and one other thing, there's another, related to that is, occasionally, stretching the truth, or ignoring one or two bad things, is the right thing to do, such as when you're speaking at funerals.

• 16:26Jordan Klepper?

  I think.

• 16:27Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, yeah, there are times when just let this one go.

• 16:32Jordan Klepper?

  Would you say, now from a scientific mindset, things like climate change, things that feel like perilous situations that people are maybe failing to grasp?

• 16:40Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  No, those aren't the truths I'm talking about. I'm talking about, I'm talking about truths about a person.

• 16:44Jordan Klepper?

  When it comes to science, you're.

• 16:46Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Science, no, I'm all in.

• 16:47Jordan Klepper?

  You're straight-laced.

• 16:47Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I'm all in.

• 16:48Jordan Klepper?

  Okay.

• 16:49Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Back up.

• 16:51Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Science in the face.

• 16:53Jordan Klepper?

  Why'd you give me a free pass here?

• 16:57Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, uh, one of your shows, which is why we invited you to StarTalk at all. Not that we don't love your work. It's all about the space program.

• 17:04Jordan Klepper?

  Mm-hmm.

• 17:05Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Nicely timed with the 50th anniversary of Apollo.

• 17:09Jordan Klepper?

  Eleven.

• 17:10Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Landing on.

• 17:11Jordan Klepper?

  The moon. See, I'm a pro.

• 17:14Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, I want to spend the rest of our time together talking about your experience there. And then we'll compare notes.

• 17:20Jordan Klepper?

  Great.

• 17:20Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  There's a little bit I know, but I didn't get all in, up in it, the way you did.

• 17:23Jordan Klepper?

  Oh, that's what I do. I, I, I put on the suit.

• 17:25Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  All up in it.

• 17:26Jordan Klepper?

  I got, I got, I got all nice and dirty.

• 17:28Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  All right, so when StarTalk returns, more of my exclusive interview with Jordan Klepper.

• 17:44Speaker 02

  Bringing space and science down to Earth. You're listening to StarTalk.

• 18:04Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  We're back on StarTalk. Billy Grass Tyson, I'm here with Jordan Klepper. You surely know him from Comedy Central. If you don't, you should, because he's got a new show on Comedy Central where he goes around the world investigating topics that we all care about, or all should care about. And he does it in a very hands-on, involved way. Very different from seeing him behind the desk making comedic quips at stories that other people bring. So, you did do, you did do a few on-location stories for Comedy Central.

• 18:37Jordan Klepper?

  I did, yes, when I was at the Daily Show.

• 18:39Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Jordan, when you went to the, when you went to the conventions and things, those were fun.

• 18:42Jordan Klepper?

  A lot of field pieces for the, with Daily Show as a correspondent, you're out in the field a bunch, so this was sort of an extension of that. Get me out there.

• 18:48Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, excellent. And we've got you on the show because you explored our space program. And first, first, what motivated you? Second, is there some overriding?

• 18:59Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Social cultural issue that you wanted to tear apart? Not to destroy it, but to unpack.

• 19:06Jordan Klepper?

  I will say, so it was two things. I've been a little bit of a space nerd since I was a kid. I would go to two places when I was a kid. My parents would take me to Washington DC or Cape Canaveral. And so.

• 19:15Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Cape Canaveral in Florida.

• 19:16Jordan Klepper?

  Yes, and so I, you know, I, I, I fell in love with the idea of becoming an astronaut. As I think a lot of people do.

• 19:22Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  A lot of kids do.

• 19:23Jordan Klepper?

  A lot of kids do, yes. I think I've gotten to indulge that throughout my life. Back when I was hosting the show called The Opposition, we had Scott Kelly on. Astronaut Scott Kelly, who spent over 500 days.

• 19:32Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Is he the good-looking one of the twins?

• 19:34Jordan Klepper?

  He's the hot twin.

• 19:35Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  The hot twin.

• 19:36Jordan Klepper?

  Mark, Mark Kelly is the.

• 19:38Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  The totally ugly twin.

• 19:39Jordan Klepper?

  The ugly twin. The ugly twin running for Senate. Scott's the sexy, sexy twin.

• 19:47Jordan Klepper?

  I love them both.

• 19:48Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  We've had, we've had Scott Kelly on here. Was it Scott or was it Mark? We had one of the twins.

• 19:52Jordan Klepper?

  You had, you had the sexy one.

• 19:53Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  We had the, we had the one who went into space.

• 19:55Jordan Klepper?

  Yes, the one who agrees to do the show, they get to be the sexy one. That's what I've always said. Well, so Scott Kelly came on the show, which was extended.

• 20:01Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  In case people don't remember. Because he's a twin, it became of high physiological and biological interest to send one into space for an extended length of time. Leave the other one here on Earth, and then they come back and you compare them. That's all. And according to relativity, the one into space came back a little younger than the other one, by the way.

• 20:18Jordan Klepper?

  Yes.

• 20:19Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Not, not by very much, but you can calculate it.

• 20:22Jordan Klepper?

  And squishier, right?

• 20:23Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, that's, that's for different reasons. Yeah, it's not like space made him squishy.

• 20:28Jordan Klepper?

  Well, I mean, being in space made him squishy?

• 20:29Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  No, no, if, if we had rotating space stations that had artificial gravity, he wouldn't be squishy.

• 20:34Jordan Klepper?

  So that's what it is.

• 20:35Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, there, there could be other reasons, but that's the main one. Okay.

• 20:38Jordan Klepper?

  Well, I want to get to the bottom of my squishy question.

• 20:41Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Are you squishy before?

• 20:44Jordan Klepper?

  I'm a squishy denier. Let me be very honest with you, Neil. I've been a squishy denier since I was a kid.

• 20:49Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I asked my trainer, you know, where's my six pack? And he said, it's in there, it's just under the fat. I said, okay, I'm good.

• 20:56Jordan Klepper?

  We just need gyms that are rotating at a certain speed that allow us, squishy men, to become less squishy.

• 21:01Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Exactly.

• 21:04Jordan Klepper?

  So I had Scott Kelly on the show, talking about important things like squishiness.

• 21:07Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Wait, on your show or back?

• 21:08Jordan Klepper?

  On my show, back in the, on the opposition, he was a guest on the show.

• 21:11Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I remember the opposition, yes.

• 21:12Jordan Klepper?

  And so, um...

• 21:13Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That was between when you left The Daily Show in 2017 and your current contribution.

• 21:19Jordan Klepper?

  Exactly, yup. It was, it was a late night show, we had a lot of fascinating people on. And talking to Scott backstage, he was talking a lot about The Right Stuff and how that was...

• 21:27Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  The movie and the book.

• 21:28Jordan Klepper?

  Exactly. Now, he read the book when he was a kid and it inspired him, uh, to, to wanna be an astronaut, to wanna engage in science again, and it got me thinking, it was like, oh, you know, I, I, I had such a fun time, you know, jumping back in and talking about space with Scott Kelly, I'm gonna read The Right Stuff. It was about a year ago. I read The Right Stuff and I became obnoxious with all of my friends for the following four months, just saying, "You have to read this, it's amazing." I just, I, I, I was re-energized with the space program, with all the documentaries coming out about the Apollo 11 mission. It, it was one of these things that suddenly just lit up in me. And we were trying to look for stories and I was, I'd come in and I'd tell, uh, my office mates...

• 22:02Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  By the way, since we're talking about space, it didn't light up in with you, it ignited.

• 22:05Jordan Klepper?

  Ooh, yes, thank you.

• 22:06Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  If may help your vocabulary.

• 22:08Jordan Klepper?

  Yes, it, it, there was a spark that ignited in me.

• 22:10Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It ignited.

• 22:11Jordan Klepper?

  And then blast off, I was back in it.

• 22:14Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Good, thank you. Continue.

• 22:16Jordan Klepper?

  So while I was pitching stories in our office...

• 22:18Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Thank you for allowing me to edit your, your, your personal commentary.

• 22:21Jordan Klepper?

  If you can make me a little bit smarter, more clever throughout, I will take it, Neil.

• 22:24Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, go.

• 22:25Jordan Klepper?

  Uh, so I'm, as we're pitching stories, I'm consistently referencing how much I liked the movie First Man, how much I liked, uh, The Right Stuff.

• 22:31Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Which man, the profile of Neil Armstrong.

• 22:33Jordan Klepper?

  Exactly. I thought it was such an interesting, human way that to me, the, uh, even the process to getting to the moon, uh, in and of itself, felt like such a, uh, difficult and lonely process that I thought a movie like that was able to capture. Uh, and as we're pitching these things, my staff is like, "Why don't we just do an episode on space, for god's sakes, you can't stop talking about it."

• 22:54Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, they're just trying to get you to shut up.

• 22:55Jordan Klepper?

  They're trying to get me to shut up, which any good staff will do, you know this.

• 22:58Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, yeah, of course, of course.

• 23:01Jordan Klepper?

  And at the same time, what we were talking about, like, I'm somebody who's progressive and on the left side of the aisle, who's often very critical of our commander in chief. And at the same time, President Donald Trump is talking a lot about the space program. He's making outlandish claims, like, you made the comment as like, what will it take to get us to Mars? If I gave you unlimited money, could we get there before the next election? Which is a ludicrous claim, but in that moment, it lined up somewhat with my instinct of like, oh yeah, we need to dream big. This idea of dreaming for that moonshot slash Mars shot, that's something that I feel is missing. It was when I look back at the Apollo 11, I look back at the Apollo program in general, at least through rose-colored glasses, you hear of a time where people were coming together. They were investing in science. They were trying to do things that felt impossible.

• 23:45Jordan Klepper?

  And through doing that, there were a lot of benefits to our society, and there was a lot of cultural cohesion. With some caveats, for sure, but there was a positivity there that felt like was lacking. And we actually have a commander in chief who I don't agree with on almost anything, but is sort of like, hey, I think we can get to Mars. I'm like, you sound crazy, but in this case, I like it. And so we look to do an episode of like, what does the fight look like to get to Mars? Is that the kind of thing, are we going to make America great again with a big asterisk? But are we gonna like, go back to what was unique and interesting about the Apollo 11 mission? Is that something that's in store for America? Is that something that's good for America?

• 24:24Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  The reason why, the reason why I didn't interrupt you is because I have nothing to add or subtract from what you just said.

• 24:32Jordan Klepper?

  Thank you, Neil.

• 24:35Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Not that other times when I interrupt you, I do.

• 24:37Jordan Klepper?

  Yeah, I was gonna say, this is really making me look back on the rest of the interview.

• 24:39Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  The rest of the interview. No, so firstly, yes, it is absurd to imagine that we would land on Mars before the next election, but it's not absurd to imagine that we would have a Mars program ready to happen before the next election. And if anyone else thinks it's absurd, you have to ask, is it crazy for a president to say, I want to start getting to Mars, and before the end of my next term, I want to have landed on Mars, so I get to make the phone call? I don't know that President Trump said that, but he's surely thinking it.

• 25:12Jordan Klepper?

  Sure.

• 25:13Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, is that a crazy thing? Here's my question to you. Is getting to Mars in six years?

• 25:23Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  More crazy than getting to the moon in seven. President Kennedy's speech, where we're gonna go to the moon in 1962, no, excuse me, 61. We didn't have a ship that could launch a human being that wouldn't explode on the launch pad. We didn't yet have that spacecraft. And he says, "We're gonna put a man on the moon before the decade is out and we do it within eight years." So to go from an impossible dream to an accomplished dream, that's gotta be more remote than anything any sitting president can say today that they want to have happened in the next six years. That's all I'm saying.

• 26:08Jordan Klepper?

  I 100% agree.

• 26:09Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah.

• 26:09Jordan Klepper?

  I think that's what is...

• 26:10Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So however crazy you want to say Trump is, just be level, and as a scientist, I try to be level-headed about all this. Same with Trump's Space Force. Trump said Space Force, everybody said, "No, no, we got problems on Earth. Why do you want to have wars?" People just reacted without pausing and thinking on what, "Well, let's think about this." Otherwise, you're just aligning yourself with political whims and not using your own brain to analyze a statement made by one side of the aisle or the other. So...

• 26:38Jordan Klepper?

  I think it's a very, I think it's a very compelling question, that a person who is radioactive when it comes to politics. But it would take somebody in a position like that to set the bar that high and then trust that people pulling together could potentially get there. I think like we're in a time where I'm hearing a lot of people talking about climate change. In order to stop the effects of climate change, we would need the type of effort it took during World War II to come together. I was just in Detroit this past weekend and I was looking at the architecture of Detroit and some of these buildings that were built that are...

• 27:09Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Stunning.

• 27:10Jordan Klepper?

  Gorgeous, stunning. The Fisher Building I was in, a monument to American ingenuity was built in 13 months. And it's unbelievable.

• 27:19Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  In World War II, we were building battleships right here in the Brooklyn Navy Yard. Just pumping them out.

• 27:24Jordan Klepper?

  When we agree that, hey, this is something we're going to do, now...

• 27:28Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  All pistons align.

• 27:29Jordan Klepper?

  All pistons align, let's get these things done. And I think like...

• 27:31Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Excuse me, that's an internal combustion engine reference. All gears are in place.

• 27:37Jordan Klepper?

  Thank you.

• 27:38Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  For the electric motor.

• 27:41Jordan Klepper?

  Yeah, all panels have been loaded to uh.

• 27:46Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  All solar panels are tracking the sun at all angles in the sky.

• 27:51Jordan Klepper?

  No, I'm lost. We're never gonna get to Mars. This is what it is. We're not gonna be able to contextualize it in a way that is gonna get us all on the same page. Neil, it's on us too.

• 27:59Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Oh, man. Alright, I'll work on it. Alright.

• 28:01Jordan Klepper?

  There's something really evocative. One, about grandiose thinking. Two, about scientific exploration in a way that is on a level that is beyond what people can imagine. And I think like, some of that comes with a time period where people are afraid. I think wanting to beat the Russians was a big part of the 60s.

• 28:19Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Not wanting to die, yes.

• 28:20Jordan Klepper?

  Not wanting to die.

• 28:21Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That works every time. No doubt about that one.

• 28:24Jordan Klepper?

  You're a character stick person. That's a good stick, not wanting to die. And so I think it's a compelling question right now. It shouldn't just be thrown out baby with the bathwater of like, can we get to Mars? Sure, that sounds ludicrous.

• 28:36Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Was that a main question in the episode? Cause as of this recording, it hasn't aired yet.

• 28:41Jordan Klepper?

  Yep. So the thing that kicks us off is, I don't agree with the president on many things, but this is actually something that connects with me. Of like, is this something that is gonna be realistic in our lifetime and what is that going to take? And so we accept that as like, alright, let's go talk to some people. We go and we talk to Scott Kelly to hear, he's been up there, he has some opinions, what he thinks. I go to a Mars habitat in Hawaii to see what some of the training would look like.

• 29:03Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Was that in a, I don't know the Hawaii one. I know of one in Canada.

• 29:07Jordan Klepper?

  Yes. There's one on the big island, on the volcanic mountain, Mauna Loa.

• 29:13Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  They're all volcanic. That's how they rose from the bottom of the ocean.

• 29:17Jordan Klepper?

  Alright, don't make me look like an idiot.

• 29:19Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, I'm just saying.

• 29:21Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Actually, that's what an archipelago is. You know what that is? It's a hotspot underneath Earth's moving crust, okay? And it's just sitting there. And the crust is there and it punches through, makes a volcano, then it goes dormant, the crust keeps moving, then it punches through again. Pauses, it keeps moving, punches through again. So it's a string of volcanic islands.

• 29:41Jordan Klepper?

  So an archipelago essentially is a volcanic series of islands.

• 29:45Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  As I understand it, my rudimentary geology, that's correct.

• 29:49Jordan Klepper?

  How many islands does it take to be an archipelago? Is there like a flat line?

• 29:52Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  More than one for sure. I don't know. But go on.

• 29:59Jordan Klepper?

  So I went to Mauna Loa, which there's a place called High Seas, which is a Mars habitat. That is actually turning also into a moon habitat.

• 30:08Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Because it's got the volcanic terrain.

• 30:10Jordan Klepper?

  They have the volcanic terrain, it is incredibly remote. NASA had paid for this site, now it's privately owned. And the European, the International European Space Agency was sending potential astronauts.

• 30:25Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  The European Space Agency?

• 30:26Jordan Klepper?

  Yes, yes, they were sending people over actually as we were leaving there.

• 30:28Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And that's a long way from Europe, dude.

• 30:30Jordan Klepper?

  That's a hike.

• 30:31Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That's like, you might as well just dig a hole through the earth and go through.

• 30:33Jordan Klepper?

  Yeah. Well, at that point, if you're living in London with the rain, you're like, I'll go to Hawaii for a week.

• 30:39Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay.

• 30:40Jordan Klepper?

  So we spent some time, I spent some time on the top of Mauna Loa, kind of talking to them about not only what it would, what life on Mars could look like.

• 30:49Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Them, you mean the people who are in this habitat?

• 30:50Jordan Klepper?

  Exactly.

• 30:50Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Are they sneaking in cheetos or something, or are they?

• 30:52Jordan Klepper?

  You know, they'll say they aren't, but I think there's something going on.

• 30:56Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  They're licking their orange fingers?

• 30:57Jordan Klepper?

  You got it, it's like, yeah, this.

• 31:00Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Check their fingernails. I know, they're sneaking something in.

• 31:05Jordan Klepper?

  Cheetos are not naturally occurring on the Martian landscape, I know this for a fact.

• 31:08Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It's part of the red color.

• 31:11Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It's not Mars dust, they're licking off their fingertips.

• 31:14Jordan Klepper?

  Something that was interesting, I mean, a lot of what they're testing right there is just the psychological challenges of living on Mars for an extended period of time. Not only the possible two years there and back, what it's like to live in a small enclosed space with people. What's sort of funny as a layperson, but also as an improviser, as somebody who's taught improv, that's all about group dynamics. It's about how you can teach people how to listen, how not to kill one another, how to build off of ideas. And so, a lot of the things they were training for and studying up there were the type of things that are basic human communication things.

• 31:46Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Isn't that already fully researched, just with families at Thanksgiving?

• 31:53Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  We already know what getting a group of people who know each other really well. What happens when they gotta sit down together?

• 31:59Jordan Klepper?

  The problem, we haven't recorded it, you know, we haven't written down.

• 32:02Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  No one is recording their own Thanksgiving. They just talk about it the next morning with the water cooler.

• 32:06Jordan Klepper?

  Exactly. Nobody's running, we gotta put pen to paper, guys.

• 32:09Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Oh, man.

• 32:10Jordan Klepper?

  This is, you can do scientific research every Thanksgiving.

• 32:13Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  But one thing I'll add to that before we take our next break is, again, I'm old enough to remember a lot of the Twilight Zone episodes in real time. And they were made during the buildup of the space program on the way to the moon. So, space showed up in many of the topics, more as a philosophical thing, not this is really gonna happen this way. They just said, if space is a goal, what are some ramifications of this? And multiple episodes were about the loneliness of space and how it could mess with your head. And I said, wow. And then I, then when I got older, I realized there are times I don't wanna talk to anybody. I'd be perfectly happy spending a week, give me a book, a Netflix account.

• 32:58Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I'm fine. I don't wanna talk to anybody. And I'm, I'm socialized. Imagine the hermits who are out there who could go years doing this. So then I realized that's, that's bull, that's BS. There are plenty of people who don't need human contact for their own sanity. A. B.

• 33:17Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Every astronaut in space is getting yacked at by NASA all the time. Time to wake up, mission control, you're here, have you done your thing? Shut up already. There is no loneliness in space. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying, okay? Just, I want to nip that in the bud, okay? Plus, we're not sending one astronaut anywhere, right? They didn't know that at the time. During the Mercury program, it was one astronaut, but later on, it's a whole team of people. So, I'm not, I'm not buying this psychological thing. I'm sorry.

• 33:46Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You can easily find seven people who really just don't give a shit about, and just perfectly happy staying there alone.

• 33:53Jordan Klepper?

  But take those seven people who don't give a shit, who are good at being alone, and put them together?

• 33:57Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Get everybody who's been married for 50 years and get them to write their journals, and then just queue off of that.

• 34:03Jordan Klepper?

  No, I'm sorry. I'm just talking, people who are pros at marriage, send them up there.

• 34:08Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  There you go. There you go. When we come back, I would just want to get more detail from Jordan Klepper about his episode on are we going to Mars when StarTalk returns?

• 34:55Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  We're back, StarTalk. A singular episode with one guest who's doubling as my guest, my co-host, and my expert. We don't do this very often.

• 35:06Jordan Klepper?

  We're flying close to the sun.

• 35:07Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Jordan, you feeling, you feeling that burn on the sun?

• 35:10Jordan Klepper?

  It's getting toasty in here now.

• 35:13Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  His, his wax wings are still, are still holding on. So, reference to Icarus in case.

• 35:19Jordan Klepper?

  Icarus for those people following at home, doesn't end well.

• 35:23Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So you, so tell me some of the things you subjected yourself to.

• 35:27Jordan Klepper?

  So I subjected myself to a trip to Hawaii, which was devastating. Devastating.

• 35:33Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That's just so.

• 35:34Jordan Klepper?

  But you know what? I'm such a tough guy. I'd go back.

• 35:36Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You, you, you took one for the team.

• 35:38Jordan Klepper?

  In the name of science, send me back to Hawaii.

• 35:41Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So what, what, okay, other than subjecting yourself to a trip to Hawaii, what did you do?

• 35:45Jordan Klepper?

  So I, I.

• 35:46Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Did you do the centrifuge?

• 35:47Jordan Klepper?

  I did. So I, I didn't do it out there. So what I ended up going to, we, we spent some time.

• 35:51Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Hawaii was just one of your trips.

• 35:52Jordan Klepper?

  Hawaii and we.

• 35:52Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Habitat Hawaii.

• 35:53Jordan Klepper?

  Habitat Hawaii. And we talked to Hank Rogers, who is a multimillionaire who's investing in that and in trying to invest in space.

• 36:00Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I love millionaires named Hank.

• 36:01Jordan Klepper?

  You know, I know that.

• 36:05Jordan Klepper?

  It's really a blue collar millionaire.

• 36:06Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That's a, that's a, that's a man, that's a, that's a practical guy.

• 36:11Jordan Klepper?

  I did a little day drinking with Scott Kelly down in Houston, which was day drinking with a, an astronaut with an old time drink.

• 36:17Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That's a thing.

• 36:18Jordan Klepper?

  That's a thing.

• 36:18Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That's a thing, day drinking.

• 36:19Jordan Klepper?

  And then I wanted to go to-

• 36:20Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  By the way, what was the beverage?

• 36:21Jordan Klepper?

  It was, it's a, a drink called Space Dust. There's a, there's a bar outside-

• 36:26Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It's classified.

• 36:26Jordan Klepper?

  It's classified, yes.

• 36:27Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Stop there, okay, go on.

• 36:29Jordan Klepper?

  There is a bar outside of NASA in Houston where all the astronauts go to, which, you know, we were gonna interview Scott, we were talking about, let's just meet up-

• 36:36Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Cause NASA's in a community, just, it looks like a, like a suburb of Houston.

• 36:39Jordan Klepper?

  It is, it is very much not in Houston, is what I found out. Um, and when you meet there, we're like, where do you meet up? He's like, well, there's a, a bar all these astronauts go to. And in my mind, I have like the right stuff, I have these romantic ideas of like, you know, you're gonna walk in, there's gonna be Chuck Yeager in the, the corner with a spittoon.

• 36:56Jordan Klepper?

  Yeah, there's spit, why is there spit?

• 36:57Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  There's gotta be spit. You can't be badass unless you're spitting.

• 37:01Jordan Klepper?

  There's a tough guy spitting at a bar.

• 37:02Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah.

• 37:03Jordan Klepper?

  And you turn into this, and what makes this bar remarkable is it's the closest bar to NASA.

• 37:08Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Oh, it's efficient.

• 37:09Jordan Klepper?

  It's, it's efficient.

• 37:10Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yes, these are all scientifically trained people, it's efficient.

• 37:13Jordan Klepper?

  It's the close bar, so we'll go there.

• 37:14Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  There you go.

• 37:15Jordan Klepper?

  So we drank, uh, the local IPA, which is called Space Dust. We get a little, we get a little boozy. And then I headed to, uh, space camp, um, because I wanted to-

• 37:23Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  In Houston North, there are others.

• 37:24Jordan Klepper?

  The, the one in, uh, Huntsville.

• 37:26Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Huntsville, Alabama.

• 37:27Jordan Klepper?

  Yes. So you go to Huntsville.

• 37:29Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Huntsville has a standing, full-scale rocket model of the Saturn V.

• 37:34Jordan Klepper?

  It's unbelievable.

• 37:34Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, it's like a compass direction, you know?

• 37:36Jordan Klepper?

  And there, there's, there's so much history there with the, uh, how much of that was built in Huntsville, and I think like, it, it does feel like such a unique universe, almost out of place with so many other places that you travel to in America.

• 37:46Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Huntsville is an enclave unlike anything else in all of Alabama.

• 37:49Jordan Klepper?

  Mm-hmm, very true.

• 37:50Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It's highly educated scientists, engineers, uh, they have a good school system, and the rest of Alabama, not so much.

• 37:57Jordan Klepper?

  Yes, and, yeah, Huntsville, it's, it's a unique little spot. So another thing we were looking at with this episode is, wh- wh- where, where is America's trajectory with our potential mission to Mars?

• 38:07Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Wait, I, before you get to that, I still wanna know what you subjected yourself to.

• 38:10Jordan Klepper?

  Physically, I went to space camp, and I got myself in the spinning thing. I got myself in the centrifuge, uh, which is also-

• 38:17Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  The spinning thing is that one that goes in all coordinates, yeah.

• 38:19Jordan Klepper?

  Yeah, it's the Leonardo da Vinci, uh-

• 38:21Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 38:22Jordan Klepper?

  So I got naked, you know?

• 38:23Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  The Vitruvian Man, oh, yes, yeah. Just like the Vitruvian Man.

• 38:28Jordan Klepper?

  Just like the Vitruvian Man. The looks I got at Space Camp, you know, I gotta tell you.

• 38:32Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I forgot Vitruvian Man is butt naked in the middle of that circle. I forgot all about that, okay?

• 38:38Jordan Klepper?

  Yeah, I got make-

• 38:39Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Not even Speedos.

• 38:40Jordan Klepper?

  Not even Speedos, yeah. The original comedian, the Vitruvian Man.

• 38:46Jordan Klepper?

  So I did, well, when, also when I went in there, well, I went in, I did the centrifuge, which goes up to 3Gs. And I was doing it with-

• 38:53Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  By the way, just FYI, 3Gs is like where a good roller coaster will take you.

• 38:59Jordan Klepper?

  Don't do this to me.

• 39:00Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yes, I'm so doing this to you. A, B, the rockets could accelerate to higher than 3Gs, they just don't. It's an interesting fact, when they launch from Earth, there's all this fuel, and, but, is the, the thrust is the same, is constant. And so there's a lot of fuel. As the fuel gets burned, the rocket weighs less. So the same thrust will actually accelerate it faster. There's a point where it could accelerate much faster than 3D and they throttle back just to not have you pinned against this here, because they don't have to. They don't need to.

• 39:35Jordan Klepper?

  Has that always been the, the case?

• 39:37Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Uh, in the old days, I don't know, just, but recently, that's, that's how they do it. They throttle back so that you don't experience much more than 3Gs.

• 39:43Jordan Klepper?

  Yes.

• 39:43Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Getting launched into space. That's why they pegged it at 3Gs.

• 39:46Jordan Klepper?

  Also, it's Space Camp, so I know there's primarily children that are coming through. And 40-year-old satirical comedians. It's a weird cross-section.

• 39:55Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So did you, did you barf up your lunch at all?

• 39:57Jordan Klepper?

  I, I did not, I did not barf, I felt terrible the entire day.

• 40:01Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, so you're kind of the adequate stuff.

• 40:02Jordan Klepper?

  Yeah, I'm, I quickly realized I'm not going to space. Uh, I, one, I'm too big and tall. Two, they didn't tell me that you-

• 40:10Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You're about 6'4"?

• 40:11Jordan Klepper?

  I'm 6'4", yeah. I turned my head as I went into, to the, uh, the centrifuge and-

• 40:17Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, so you, you felt queasy, that's fine, that's expected.

• 40:19Jordan Klepper?

  I felt queasy, uh, each one, my body was not made for it, so they-

• 40:22Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Alright, so what else they make you do?

• 40:24Jordan Klepper?

  So they maybe-

• 40:24Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  What did you make yourself do?

• 40:25Jordan Klepper?

  Well, because there, there's also, it's, it's a, they essentially have you, they run you through a simulation where you attempt to fix the International Space Station, which they put you in a sling to simulate zero gravity.

• 40:35Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay.

• 40:36Jordan Klepper?

  Which is just essentially, you look like a weird cow that's going to slaughter. They like lift you up- You're, they place you horizontal and then you just kind of float around trying to fix that.

• 40:46Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Cause you're not actually weightless at that time. You can still swallow what goes down your stomach.

• 40:49Jordan Klepper?

  Yeah, you're still.

• 40:50Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  There's still an up and down.

• 40:51Jordan Klepper?

  Yes.

• 40:51Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, if you drop your pen, it'll fall.

• 40:53Jordan Klepper?

  I don't think about swallowing it. Is that incredibly?

• 40:55Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  No, no, no. They didn't know initially if you, no, I shouldn't have mentioned that at all.

• 40:59Jordan Klepper?

  What do you know now? What are you hiding from me?

• 41:02Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I'm not authorized. No, no, there was, in the early days, we didn't know for sure if you could swallow in space. But you can, in zero G, that is, but it turns out you can do in space anything that you can do upside down.

• 41:18Jordan Klepper?

  Is that right?

• 41:18Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Think about that. So you can swallow upside down.

• 41:20Jordan Klepper?

  Yeah.

• 41:21Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And you can eat upside down. And that's gravity in the complete opposite direction from right side up.

• 41:27Jordan Klepper?

  Which is just based on the strength of your body, correct?

• 41:30Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Of all of the valves and everything, you're, you can, you can live not for long nor comfortably upside down. Your blood still pumps, your, so, so that mean, and you can do it horizontally. So you can do vertically, horizontally, and upside down. Zero G is not a thing.

• 41:46Jordan Klepper?

  You're fine.

• 41:47Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah.

• 41:47Jordan Klepper?

  Well, I know that was talking to Scott Kelly, not to get too gross about it, but I asked him about using the restroom.

• 41:53Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  The restroom, yeah.

• 41:54Jordan Klepper?

  Both of them, and he talked about like, that is a definite.

• 41:58Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That is the first question a 12-year-old asks. Is that what you're doing?

• 42:02Jordan Klepper?

  A scientist asks. The word is, the first question a-

• 42:04Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Sorry, sorry.

• 42:05Jordan Klepper?

  An aspiring scientist asks, do you, you have to-

• 42:08Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It's the first question a highly curious human being will ask.

• 42:11Jordan Klepper?

  Thank you.

• 42:11Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And that includes children as well as scientists.

• 42:13Jordan Klepper?

  Yes, exactly.

• 42:14Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You pick which one you want.

• 42:15Jordan Klepper?

  It's the first question. It might also, if you watch my show, it might also be the second and third question he asks. You know, you get a little obsessed with those things.

• 42:21Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, yeah, it's an interesting thing. So do you think, based on everything you saw, does your show, that episode of your show have a conclusion?

• 42:28Jordan Klepper?

  I think the conclusion is, you know, I'm optimistic about it. From a selfish point of view, I do think it's something that has potential. I think I, I am inspired by the idea of placing that bar high and trying to achieve it. Talking to people like Scott Kelly and other folks on the ground, they're like, it feels like we're probably, if it were going to happen, 12 to 15 years off.

• 42:47Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Who's this person you interviewed that wants to be the first?

• 42:49Jordan Klepper?

  So her name was Alyssa. So we found this person who's been training to be an astronaut since she was three years old. Literally has certifications from here across the world. Has gone to space camp, I think, eighteen times.

• 43:01Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Wow.

• 43:02Jordan Klepper?

  And she's an eighteen-year-old girl who, this has been her dream. And so we kind of wanted to talk to somebody who was much like-

• 43:07Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So we gotta send her.

• 43:08Jordan Klepper?

  Yeah, we gotta send her, right?

• 43:09Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, does she know she could die?

• 43:11Jordan Klepper?

  She does. She's talked about that.

• 43:12Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That's part of it. Good.

• 43:13Jordan Klepper?

  She's even talked about potentially removing like a gallbladder or things that for a potential Mars mission, they would, things that you might remove, uh, as a, what, contraceptively? So that you-

• 43:24Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Oh, in case you have, like, your appendix?

• 43:26Jordan Klepper?

  Yes.

• 43:27Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You don't want your appendix to get inflamed when no one can come to it.

• 43:29Jordan Klepper?

  Yes.

• 43:29Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So you proactively remove it.

• 43:32Jordan Klepper?

  Prophylactically. What did I say? I said contraceptively.

• 43:34Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Controceptively.

• 43:35Jordan Klepper?

  Oh, God.

• 43:38Jordan Klepper?

  I knew it was a sexual thing that I was nervous about saying.

• 43:41Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You can say pro- but proactive, I think, is a perfectly fine word today.

• 43:44Jordan Klepper?

  Okay, let's do proactive then. Uh, so she was discussing that. I think what was, what I took away from that was, I wanted to talk to somebody who is of, as she calls herself, the Mars generation. I remember when I was-

• 43:55Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  They're not thinking about the moon at all.

• 43:56Jordan Klepper?

  They're thinking-

• 43:57Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Moon is not even there.

• 43:58Jordan Klepper?

  No, it's, there's, the moon might be the way in which you, you do a little stop there and then go all the way to Mars, but I think she wants to, she wants to be there. She wants to be the Neil Armstrong of our generation.

• 44:08Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay.

• 44:09Jordan Klepper?

  Or their generation, perhaps is maybe more acute.

• 44:12Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  The Neil Armstrong of us all today.

• 44:14Jordan Klepper?

  There you are. We all get a Neil Armstrong.

• 44:16Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yes.

• 44:17Jordan Klepper?

  Uh, I think, I'm optimistic as far as that goes. We look a lot also at the private space race, and I think that's-

• 44:24Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Where's the money gonna come from if it costs a trillion dollars?

• 44:26Jordan Klepper?

  I mean, I think that's where you're looking at what's happening with SpaceX.

• 44:30Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Nobody's writing a check.

• 44:31Jordan Klepper?

  No.

• 44:31Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Go home.

• 44:32Jordan Klepper?

  Yeah.

• 44:32Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah.

• 44:33Jordan Klepper?

  Well, I think, but capitalism, a thing that's happened in America and always has driven America. I think SpaceX, Blue Origin, those types of endeavors may get us close, I'm hoping.

• 44:42Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I'm skeptical, only because if they're a business, they, you wanna make money off of it. And how you making money off of sending the first mission there? I don't know. Where's the return on that investment?

• 44:50Jordan Klepper?

  Well-

• 44:51Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Unless you're gonna charge people to watch it.

• 44:53Jordan Klepper?

  Mm-hmm.

• 44:53Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You know, like, the Olympics, you're charging people, I mean, it's commercial time, but maybe that's what it'll take.

• 44:59Jordan Klepper?

  Well, that's, and honestly, you talk about American ingenuity, and not to be a cynic, but I wonder if that next phase of American ingenuity is like, how do we profit off of going to Mars?

• 45:08Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yes!

• 45:08Jordan Klepper?

  What, talk about that Pepsi T-shirt.

• 45:10Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It's America, Merka, dude.

• 45:12Jordan Klepper?

  Merka.

• 45:12Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You're a Merk.

• 45:13Jordan Klepper?

  Merka, put a price tag on it.

• 45:14Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Put a price tag on it, we buy it. You're a Merka. So if I can't buy it, I don't want it.

• 45:20Jordan Klepper?

  It ain't mine.

• 45:21Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It ain't mine, it ain't even anybody's. So here's something, I ran the numbers on this. You could make a mission to Mars every time on a lottery. Okay, so we have 300 million Americans.

• 45:36Jordan Klepper?

  Yep.

• 45:37Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  If everyone, this is hard, but just running blunt numbers. If everyone puts in a hundred dollars. Okay, that's a lot for most people, but just, it's not an unreachable amount of money. We've all spent a hundred dollars on something in our lives before, okay? Everyone puts a hundred dollars for the chance that you will be on that mission.

• 45:58Jordan Klepper?

  Mm-hmm.

• 45:58Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And a hundred dollars times 300 million is what? It's, how much?

• 46:06Jordan Klepper?

  Thirty.

• 46:08Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  This should not require a calculator.

• 46:09Jordan Klepper?

  Thirty billion?

• 46:10Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Move the decimal over two places, so it's thirty. Yes, thirty, Mr. Math Guy from way back.

• 46:14Jordan Klepper?

  Thirty billion, yeah.

• 46:15Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Thirty billion dollars. That is two years of NASA's budget allocated by the government. And plus NASA puts in some, the government puts in some. You could do this, I think. There's some variant on that, that, and everyone will do it every week. I mean, why not? And if you don't get to go, you get to see other people go, and that's part of your pleasure. I bet you get more pleasure watching someone else walk on Mars than you would watching someone else win the Mega Bucks Lottery.

• 46:44Jordan Klepper?

  I think, I could hope there's no pleasure from that.

• 46:47Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You get negative pleasure because you didn't win.

• 46:49Jordan Klepper?

  I didn't, yeah, this, I could root for somebody.

• 46:51Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Right, right, exactly.

• 46:52Jordan Klepper?

  I think there is a way, I think there's financial ways in which you can make it a closer reality. I think like what we talked about earlier as well. I think as a country, we have to care about this, and the things that often move us are fear.

• 47:05Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Number one.

• 47:06Jordan Klepper?

  Yep, fear is a biggie. Whether it's patriotic pride of something that we can achieve, I don't know. I think we could use some of that. There is a sense of unity there, but I think like, we like to compete, and I think seeing China land on the dark side of the moon suddenly makes maybe us a little bit more excited.

• 47:22Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Far side of the moon.

• 47:23Jordan Klepper?

  Far side.

• 47:24Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Dude.

• 47:25Jordan Klepper?

  I blew that one, didn't I?

• 47:25Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, because you, no, yeah.

• 47:27Jordan Klepper?

  You know, you know where I got that.

• 47:28Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Security, could you take, let's end the show now.

• 47:30Jordan Klepper?

  It was going so well.

• 47:32Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  All sides of the moon get sunlight.

• 47:34Jordan Klepper?

  You took a, you took a chance at having me be a guest and a co-host.

• 47:38Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Way to like fire our booking.

• 47:40Jordan Klepper?

  I'm sorry, everybody.

• 47:42Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  No, no, I'll give you, I'll give you a hall pass on that one, only because of how strongly influential Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon album was.

• 47:50Jordan Klepper?

  Thank you.

• 47:50Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Whether or not that was your favorite album, you should say it was your favorite.

• 47:53Jordan Klepper?

  That was my favorite album.

• 47:53Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  See, there it is. That's your hall pass, that's all you get.

• 47:57Jordan Klepper?

  Have a little sympathy for me, guys, please.

• 47:59Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, so I agree that if China looks like some kind of frenemy threat, because obviously we trade heavily with them, so they're not an explicit military enemy, we're not aiming missiles at each other, but the, the idea that they would do something first and we don't, and we're Americans, that, that could light a, ignite a flame.

• 48:18Jordan Klepper?

  Good.

• 48:19Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Under us. So, um, tell me about other topics that are, that we can look forward to.

• 48:24Jordan Klepper?

  Well, we, uh, our, our final episode that we're covering, we covered legalized marijuana in California. And so, you know, uh, there's an equity program out there that tries to deal with, basically, uh, people who are affected by the war on drugs, uh, trying to give them preferential treatment in starting businesses in Oakland, California.

• 48:44Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Oh, nice. Okay, so it's a drug show, basically?

• 48:46Jordan Klepper?

  It's essentially a drug show.

• 48:46Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, alright, alright, excellent.

• 48:48Jordan Klepper?

  Yeah, so another way to go to space, if you will.

• 48:50Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So that, so that drops, how, 10 episodes? How many episodes?

• 48:52Jordan Klepper?

  Eight episodes.

• 48:53Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Eight episodes, okay. Well, we look forward to more of this.

• 48:56Jordan Klepper?

  Yeah, we got, we got plenty.

• 48:57Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Jordan, stay out there.

• 48:57Jordan Klepper?

  I will be out there.

• 48:58Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You're a fun guy, and maybe we can get you back for just, fix that dark side of the moon thing.

• 49:03Jordan Klepper?

  I'll do my research, Neil, that's on me, I promise to be better. If you invite me back, I promise to be better.

• 49:08Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Excellent, dude, thanks.

• 49:10Jordan Klepper?

  Neil, thank you.

• 49:10Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  This has been StarTalk. Uh, most of you have heard this show, some of you may have even watched it on our YouTube channel. I've had Jordan Klepper, our guest, triple-serving as my co-host, my expert, and, and a comedian, and a informative guy, and the main interview, and we don't do that often, only when we've got it all wrapped up into one character, as he is. We've gotta go. I'm Neil deGrasse Tyson, as always, bidding you to keep looking up.