3rd Richest Man In The World, Team Zuck, and MrBeast's Best Biz

Episode 361: Shaan Puri (@ShaanVP) and Sam Parr (@TheSamParr) talk about the newly named third richest man in the world, being on team Zuckerberg, and MrBeast's best business idea. ----- Links: * Donda.org * Gautum Adani * beehiiv * Shopify * Do you love MFM and want to see Sam and Shaan's smiling faces? Subscribe to our Youtube channel. * Want more insights like MFM? Check out Shaan's newsletter. ------ Show Notes: (02:15) - Kanye vs Addidas (08:55) - Billy of the Week / Gautum Adani (22:30) - MrBeast's Translation Business (28:50) - Turning a cost center into a profit center (44:20) - Zuck fighting MMA ----- Past guests on My First Million include Rob Dyrdek, Hasan Minhaj, Balaji Srinivasan, Jake Paul, Dr. Andrew Huberman, Gary Vee, Lance Armstrong, Sophia Amoruso, Ariel Helwani, Ramit Sethi, Stanley Druckenmiller, Peter Diamandis, Dharmesh Shah, Brian Halligan, Marc Lore, Jason Calacanis, Andrew Wilkinson, Julian Shapiro, Kat Cole, Codie Sanchez, Nader Al-Naji, Steph Smith, Trung Phan, Nick Huber, Anthony Pompliano, Ben Askren, Ramon Van Meer, Brianne Kimmel, Andrew Gazdecki, Scott Belsky, Moiz Ali, Dan Held, Elaine Zelby, Michael Saylor, Ryan Begelman, Jack Butcher, Reed Duchscher, Tai Lopez, Harley Finkelstein, Alexa von Tobel, Noah Kagan, Nick Bare, Greg Isenberg, James Altucher, Randy Hetrick and more. ----- Additional episodes you might enjoy: • #224 Rob Dyrdek - How Tracking Every Second of His Life Took Rob Drydek from 0 to $405M in Exits • #209 Gary Vaynerchuk - Why NFTS Are the Future • #178 Balaji Srinivasan - Balaji on How to Fix the Media, Cloud Cities & Crypto * #169 - How One Man Started 5, Billion Dollar Companies, Dan Gilbert's Empire, & Talking With Warren Buffett • ​​​​#218 - Why You Should Take a Think Week Like Bill Gates • Dave Portnoy vs The World, Extreme Body Monitoring, The Future of Apparel Retail, "How Much is Anthony Pompliano Worth?", and More • How Mr Beast Got 100M Views in Less Than 4 Days, The $25M Chrome Extension, and More

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Shaan Puri?

  Do you know about a certain man named Gotham Adani? Have you ever heard this name before?

• 0:06Sam Parr?

  I don't remember. What's his shtick?

• 0:08Shaan Puri?

  So Adani just became, this guy just became the third richest man in the world. And so you-

• 0:13Sam Parr?

  Yes, the Indian guy from, uh, he's kind of like a, in the owns like the huge mansion in downtown, like Mumbai, where like it, it's like a skyscraper.

• 0:22Shaan Puri?

  Yeah. So he, uh, so he, Elon Musk, number one, Jeff Bezos, number two, and now Adani, number three. And so people, they watch this list and they're like, who's, who is Adani?

• 0:40Shaan Puri?

  All right. In this episode, we're talking about the third richest man in the world, somebody who you've never heard of.

• 0:44Sam Parr?

  We talked about Team Zuck. So basically Zuckerberg has this new video of him doing MMA. And we did a little recap on how we feel about it, but also we kind of looked at how he makes his decisions and what our perspective is on him. And I actually think it's quite interesting.

• 0:56Shaan Puri?

  We broke down one of Mr. Beast's, to me, the most interesting business that Mr. Beast has that nobody else is really talking about. And I think is low key a star business.

• 1:06Sam Parr?

  So that's the episode. Give it a listen. Let us know what you think.

• 1:09Shaan Puri?

  And write in the comments, go on YouTube, write in the comments. I'll be replying to every single comment that's in here with something that's either smart or funny. I guarantee it. Go to the comments and leave one and I'll reply.

• 1:21Sam Parr?

  All right. I have a fun one. This will get us in the mood. So Kanye West, uh, pop culture-y. Do you follow Kanye?

• 1:28Shaan Puri?

  Of course.

• 1:29Sam Parr?

  I don't really pay attention to Kanye West, really. Uh, it's not really on my radar, but he did something kind of funny. And we talked about him yesterday and it's business related, but basically, you know, he's having this like tizzy with Adidas. Do you know about that?

• 1:42Shaan Puri?

  No, and nice use of tizzy.

• 1:44Sam Parr?

  You like that? Uh, well, and frankly, I don't entirely know about it. So I'm just going to kind of like summarize, but basically, you know, Kanye worked with Adidas to launch Yeezys, his line of shoes. It's collectively made like, or not collectively, but in 2020, Yeezy sales were 1.17 billion dollars in revenue. He made around $200 million from that. So he made a lot of money. And basically he's having a fight with them. I don't actually know what the fight is about, but the backstory is that he's a- Accused them of stealing his designs and leaving him out of meetings for their Yeezy shoe collaborations. Sean Combs, you know, Diddy said he's gonna boycott because of this. And Kanye has said, I'm gonna make things unbearable for you guys until you comply.

• 2:23Sam Parr?

  So I don't exactly know what comply means, but what's kinda, it's both sad because like it looks like he's going through some stuff. And it is funny and he's kind of trying to be funny and it's working. But he basically said, I've got no chill. It's gonna cost you guys billions to keep me. It's gonna cost you billions to let me go Adidas. You stole my design among other things and I'll give you till Tuesday. Not until the seven months that I told you originally I was gonna give you. Today's the day, like he like went like he's going crazy. And on his Twitter, which he's got like, I don't know how many followers, seven, tens of millions, I would imagine. He's posting each person's picture who's on the board of directors as well as a couple of other boards. Like they have a board of advisories of Adidas's people.

• 3:08Sam Parr?

  And so he posted this one woman who's also, and he's like, it'll say stuff about him. Like sometimes it's funny, but sometimes it's like, uh, this woman's on the board of Adidas. She's also chairman and investment banker at JP Morgan. I went to JP Morgan in order to raise money for my buyout and they wouldn't do it. Like he's going kind of bananas and I, and I thought that that was wild. And then I saw another thing that he's, he's having another tizzy with, uh, his wife, Kim or ex-wife about a school. And I went and looked at their school. Have you heard about this? So he has his own school, right? Like he has his own academy or something like that? Yeah. So he's trying to start this thing called Donda. So donda.org. If you go there, it actually looks weird, but interesting and kind of fun.

• 3:51Sam Parr?

  Like it looks cool. And if you go to about, uh, on how we learn, you'll see like they described the curriculum and it's like, it kind of makes sense. But then you see like weird things. Like if you look at what the daily schedule, it says after school parkour.

• 4:04Shaan Puri?

  First of all, I went to the site donda.org. It's just like who we are, how we learn, admissions and choir. Those are the top four links. Quiet, which of these does not belong? I don't know why choir is up here. Secondly, there's just like a white. I don't even know what it looks like a white pigeon, to be honest with you. Just flapping its wings and slow mo. Okay, it's like a fat dove, though. It's not, it's not like a sleek, graceful dove. It's like a chunky dove.

• 4:32Sam Parr?

  Guinea pig, yeah.

• 4:33Shaan Puri?

  It's a guinea pig with wings that's just flying up in slow motion. And that's the website. I'm going to click how we learn because I can't not. Okay, they got less than 12 students per, per class. Rule number one should be, students should be confident in forming or forming ideas. If not, their writing will suffer. Okay, so their daily schedule, full school worship. Okay, that's a good way to start the day. How we similar to how we start the pod.

• 5:01Sam Parr?

  Yeah.

• 5:01Shaan Puri?

  Core classes, lunch and recess, enrichment classes, including film choir. And you're right, parkour.

• 5:11Shaan Puri?

  A bunk, a bunch of singing ninjas out here just singing and flipping around.

• 5:17Sam Parr?

  So I thought this was interesting because it, you know, even though he's, I don't like laughing at him. A guy, if he's going kind of insane, but he's trying to be funny with this Instagram thing. And it kind of is hilarious. Like he posted like the, a guy, I think the CEO of SAP, or is it SAP? Yeah. The like the HR software that nobody actually understands what they do. He like tweeted out or Instagrammed his, this guy's face and goes, you are a sap. That's what he said. And it just, it's just.

• 5:53Sam Parr?

  And he's just doing the most childish, immature thing. And it's so funny. It is working. It's awesome. And then this school thing I saw because of his other little fight with Kim. And he's like, anyway, I don't know how this is related to business, but I, I thought that you would have know about this because you're more of a pop culture guy than I am.

• 6:11Shaan Puri?

  No, but let me tell you, okay, so this is, here's a theme for this episode. I'm going to call it.

• 6:19Shaan Puri?

  People with giant egos.

• 6:22Shaan Puri?

  No, I'm gonna call it, cause I don't actually know if these people have giant egos. I'm gonna say creative titans. That's better. Creative titans. So the first one is gonna be my Billy of the week.

• 6:40Speaker 02

  Million dollars isn't cool. You know what's cool? A billion dollars.

• 6:45Shaan Puri?

  Do you know about a certain man named Gotham Adani? Have you ever heard this name before?

• 6:52Sam Parr?

  Uh, I don't remember. What's his shtick?

• 6:56Shaan Puri?

  So Adani just became, this guy just became the third richest man in the world. And so you

• 7:02Sam Parr?

  Yes, the Indian guy from, uh, he's kind of like a, in the owns like the huge mansion in downtown, like Mumbai, where like it's like a skyscraper.

• 7:10Shaan Puri?

  Yeah. So he, uh, so he Elon Musk, number one, Jeff Bezos, number two, and now Adani, number three. And so people, they watch this list and they're like, who's, who is Adani? And I actually, I don't know if I met him, but we definitely pitched him. I think my dad pitched him a business thing many years ago. My dad always kept saying, oh, we just need to get Adani on board. Adani, Adani, Adani. And so I'd heard about this guy before and I didn't, you know, and his net worth has just skyrocketed because his stock is up like 13x in the last, I don't know.

• 7:41Sam Parr?

  Is this Reliant Industries?

• 7:42Shaan Puri?

  No. So Reliance, it was the top kind of like company there. And the guy who runs it, Mukesh Ambani was the, I think he was, he was the richest man in India. And now Adani has passed him up in the last year because his stock went up 13x. So, so who is this guy and what does he do? Okay. So, um, what he does, you'll, you'll appreciate this. Is he a software guy? Is he a Mark Zuckerberg? No, no, he's not. Is he Elon Musk? Is he trying to create the future of, uh, you know, space travel and, you know, like brain computer interfaces? No. This guy operates at a place that Sam likes. Power. So he does coal, ports, plastics, you know, shit like that.

• 8:25Shaan Puri?

  So basically this guy's like, they do, they do like industrial work. And so he owns, when, so when he was, he was a kid, he was in school. He went to go visit this port. It was the largest port in the country at the time, a port, you know, where literally like ships come in and out. And he's like inspired by it. It was like, one day I'm going to own the biggest port ever. And the biggest port in India, and now he's sure enough, he owns the biggest port in India. He owns the most ports in India too. Um, with the deal we were trying to do with him, we were trying to get Adani to come to Australia to build a port for our, our startup. That was based in Australia because these guys were the kings of ports. But his story is pretty cool. He's a, he's a college dropout, so 18 drops out.

• 9:07Shaan Puri?

  He becomes a diamond sorter. I don't even know what that means, but he became a diamond sorter. He got an interest in the diamond business. And after a couple of years of sorting diamonds, he then goes in, he starts his own diamond brokerage. And he's like, I will trade, I will basically age of 20 as a diamond broker. Brother calls him up, brother says, hey, brother, I have a, a small plastic factory here that I, I own now. I've, I've, I bought or I run. And so he helps him go scale up the plastic factory. And then as he's doing that, he's like, oh, well, let's start importing the like, the materials that come up, you know, upstream of plastics. And so he starts doing, he creates like an export company. And so he just keeps creating these companies. So now he has seven publicly listed companies.

• 9:50Shaan Puri?

  He's got the Adani Group, which is like the, the mega one. And then they'll start like Adani Power, Adani, um, you know, like trading, Adani, um, real estate or whatever. And they'll start all these different companies and they'll take them all public. And what's interesting about it is that-

• 10:05Sam Parr?

  And he's got a beautiful mustache, by the way.

• 10:08Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, he looks like, you know, the meme account, Dr. Park Patel. He looks like the meme account's photo, actually. So I don't know if it's, if it's him or it just looks a lot like him.

• 10:18Sam Parr?

  He looks like, uh, like an Indian Mario, you know, like Mario and Luigi. He looks like an Indian Mario, like, you know?

• 10:27Shaan Puri?

  He look, he does, you know, when Mario does that little squat, like right, you know, when you want to, you want to do that trick where you go behind the thing you're standing on or you run and you get the magic? He's like squatting. He's a little squatty, squatty version of, of Indian Mario. So anyways, this guy has now become, you know, whatever the third richest man, he's got these crazy stories. He was, I don't know if you know, there was like this, sort of like an Indian nine 11 thing where there's like a terrorist attack on a hotel. He was in that hotel and he was like in the hostage group that was there.

• 10:56Sam Parr?

  Wow.

• 10:57Shaan Puri?

  He was also kidnapped at one point in time and taken ransom for $2 million. They paid it and got free. And so this guy has just lived this like kind of crazy life. And even now, he's doing really well. The group's doing really well. He's third richest man on earth. There is a set of people who are very, very skeptical about what these guys are doing because they have so much debt in their companies. Like he is basically constantly trying to acquire companies. Like they just bought the largest cement producer in India, but they buy these companies using debt. And he's got this intricate like set of companies. And so there's a big question of like, is this all a house of cards that's going to fall over? And you're going to see a guy go from the number three richest to like, you know, falling off the list completely.

• 11:41Shaan Puri?

  Or is he actually going to pull this off? Because what they'll do is they'll say, okay, the, the parent company has some profits, we'll take a loan on that. And then they take like one of the new companies public, like, oh, Adani Green Power. And they'll take the green company public because it's got the Adani name. Stock price goes up and then he'll invest in it from the parent company. And then he'll sell those shares and then he'll borrow against the, the, the stock. And then he'll issue a bond and he's got like all these different debt instruments. And so they have, I think more debt than like any other company in India. And now there's a question of, is this all going to fall over or is it all going to work? It's pretty fascinating.

• 12:15Sam Parr?

  Dude, when, do, do you ever feel, I feel self-conscious when I hear about these things because my, like my thing with business is like just the very simple of buy low, sell high, you know, like, I purchased a widget for, you know, $1 and I put some type of value or I just buy tons of them. And so I get a discount and then I sell them for like a dollar 50 and that 50 cents is my profit. I use a quarter, a quarter of that to pay myself, a quarter to go buy more. And like, it's like a relatively like simple, straightforward process. And then I hear about like, you just used the word debt instruments and how he, you know, he, like he does this thing and gets a loan across this thing and this thing. And when I hear that stuff, I just think like, So like, where's the dollar that goes into his bank account actually come from?

• 13:01Sam Parr?

  You know what I mean?

• 13:01Shaan Puri?

  Like, right.

• 13:02Sam Parr?

  Like, I try to think about, I'm like, I don't understand how this person then eventually collects the money and how the people who are owed money, where they got the money from and when they're going to get paid back. Like, do you know what I mean? It's like, it's so complicated for me because I'm such a simpleton. Or is it just bullshit?

• 13:20Shaan Puri?

  Dude, when I was in seventh grade, my parents got me a piano teacher. And I wish that instead I just learned how to play dead instruments. Like, that would have just been so much better than learning how to play, you know,

• 13:32Sam Parr?

  What do you mean a dead? Oh, dead instruments. Yeah, no shit.

• 13:36Shaan Puri?

  Where do people learn this stuff? Where do people learn this sort of financial engineering? I think that a lot of it happens if you're like on the inside. So you work at an investment bank or you work somewhere there. But like, this guy didn't have that backup.

• 13:46Sam Parr?

  Yeah.

• 13:47Shaan Puri?

  Yeah. So, you know, I think he hired people who do that. And they sort of shit say, hey, look, here's what we're going to do. We're gonna, we're gonna issue this bond and we're gonna take this company public. Then we're gonna like, take a loan, pledge the shares. We're gonna get a loan against the shares. And basically somehow $1 of EBITDA has become $8 of, you know, cash flow for us. And like, we gotta figure out how to do that without it all collapsing. But people who understand financial engineering, they have such an edge, such an absolute edge.

• 14:12Sam Parr?

  But when I like originally like made some money and I remember like our banker saying like, yeah, you could borrow money now at 1%. And I'm like, yeah, I don't want to go into debt. And they'd be like, well, no, sometimes it's like, it could be wise for you to do that. For example, if you have to pay taxes, I'm like, why? He goes, well, because you'd have to sell this thing, which then you'd take like a, you know, a 40% discount on that because of taxes. And I'm like, wait, I don't understand this. Can you like lay this out? Like, can you write this on a piece of paper? So like, it, and then my banker, Griffin, he ended up flying to New York to visit me to like, he goes, dude, I just need to sit down with you so you understand this. I swear to God, I swear, I go, why are you coming here? You got meetings? He goes, no, I'm coming to explain this to you. So he came and he explained it to me.

• 14:51Shaan Puri?

  He's like, yeah, sure, meetings.

• 14:54Sam Parr?

  Yeah.

• 14:55Shaan Puri?

  I've cleared my day to explain the one concept of borrowing against stock.

• 15:00Sam Parr?

  Like, I just didn't understand it. Were you the same way? Were you like, I just don't get this. This doesn't make sense to me.

• 15:05Shaan Puri?

  No, because you and others explained it to me, right? So like, yes, it's true. I didn't understand, I didn't know about it at first. And then when I knew about it, I didn't understand why it was good. And then somebody's like, hey, so you notice why this is amazing, right? You could either sell your stock, pay taxes and no longer own the stock. Or you could keep owning the stock, never pay the taxes, just borrow at a 1% rate against that money and like, you're good. And I was like, okay, so that's good, right? They're like, all right, you dipshit. You didn't understand? Like, let's do this again.

• 15:40Sam Parr?

  It's crazy. Yeah, I just like, so these financial engineer, you know, where I learned a lot about this stuff is from Ben, our Ben Wilson, his podcast with Rothschild, like, and I started like, learning about this a little bit, but then I also learned that I think some people, I don't know like, what skillset it is. I do think it's rooted in just like, they're just good at math and they understand, um, just like complicated algebra, to be honest, just like exponential, exponential, like that, that, that's a concept that's like, it sounds like I'm joking, but that's actually quite hard to understand, like to understand what is 7% or 10% or 12% growth for 50 periods? What's that actually look like? Like, I remember listening to this podcast, I was like, oh, you're just like, just like LeBron, it's just taller and can

• 16:22Sam Parr?

  dunk better. Doesn't matter what I do. Like, there's some people that are just better at this. And I don't know what that skillset is, but there is something there, there. It's like, you're, you're better than me.

• 16:31Shaan Puri?

  Well, I think you just get curious about that thing, which most of us who are like builders, makers, entrepreneurs, you know, like the stereotype about, let's say, um, you know, who cares, what, you know, corporate structure, uh, bookkeeping, taxes, like, you know, whatever, raising debt, that wasn't never the reason I got into business. That's not what I found interesting at the time. I was like you. It's like, oh, we could buy this thing for X and sell it for Y, you know, that, that's, that's the game plan, or we can make this thing that doesn't exist and wow, look how cool it is, look how it works. That was always more fun. And it's just like a level up, a progression in the game to be able to understand, how do I, A, keep more money that I make? And B, how do we leverage money so that we could

• 17:14Shaan Puri?

  do more interesting things, you know, in a less dilutive way? So, so I, I think these people are amazing, you know, like Xavier, who, who runs Enduring Ventures. He told me this once, he's, he was just like, you know, if I died, I'd be reincarnated as a CFO, not a CEO. And I was like, it was like the weirdest brag I'd ever heard. I was, I never heard somebody like bragging about wanting to be a CFO. And I was like, what do you mean? He's like, he's like, I don't know. I just really like learning about how to be efficient and smart on this like financial, like financial engineering. And he had done, you know, real engineering before that. He built basically like, he's like, he built a solar company in, in Africa, the largest solar company in Africa.

• 17:50Sam Parr?

  Dude, that's so funny that he's interested in that stuff though.

• 17:52Shaan Puri?

  And batteries.

• 17:54Sam Parr?

  He's like a hippie.

• 17:55Shaan Puri?

  He's totally, he's totally a hippie, right? He, he did that because he's like, dude, there's people suffering in Africa. Like I want to like, that seems like the problem to go fix. But then along the way, he's like, all right, well, how do I create, you know, how do I finance all of these solar panels and battery packs? Without having to go raise venture capital. And so in order to do that, like the necessary evil was he needed to learn how to access cheap debt. He needed to learn how to like issue debt and underwrite for other people because what he did was he was like, you know, these people should basically, they don't have the $21 to buy the solar panel that goes on top of their house. That's going to power their fridge. And like, if they don't have a fridge, their life really is tough and they need this, but they can't afford the $21. So like, let's just do it at $4 a month or whatever.

• 18:38Shaan Puri?

  And like, I will underwrite a loan against their like income. And it's like, how do you underwrite a loan for somebody who doesn't even have electricity in their house? And he would figure these things out. And so I think it became a necessary evil and something he got fascinated with. And so now they're doing this whole holding company. And so he does this, this one thread he did went viral, which was like, how to have a holding company like Warren Buffett? And basically like, you know, make a massive amount of money, pay these little taxes you need to, and like, you know, have, have more and more money to do acquisitions as you go. And he basically outlines Warren Buffett's corporate structure and why that's at, why that's advantageous. And, uh, you know, I read it and I still only understand 25% of it, but I'm just glad that there's people like that, that I can go to whenever I have a question.

• 19:18Sam Parr?

  That's hilarious. Dude, that's great. Well, I like this guy. Got him. I'm gonna, I want to learn more about him. You have more on him or you want me to go?

• 19:25Shaan Puri?

  Uh, I have another person like this, or another person and idea like this. Okay. So now let's switch gears. Another creative titan that we talked about, Mr. Beast. So we hung out with Mr. Beast. I don't know if you guys are sick of us talking about that yet, but you know, producer Ben is literally sitting here in a Mr. Beast t-shirt. So, you know, he's a fan.

• 19:47Shaan Puri?

  By the way, that's good, Ben, because you know, when we were sitting in that meeting and they brought in the swag, Jimmy, who is Mr. Beast, he goes, oh, man, they're not like kids, dude. They don't need, they don't need this stuff like, you know, they're not going to be, because the guy came in was like, guys, I got treats for you. And he's like, had a bunch of swag and nobody moved. And Mr. Jimmy was just like, oh, no, they don't care about this stuff, man. They're, they're, they're adults. And then like, all of us were like, the fuck are you talking about, dude? And like, we were just like, I just like, I literally rolled my chair over to him like, you know, like a kid, I'm like, whee! I like just rolled my rolling chair over to that part of the table because it was like a long boardroom. And I was just like, I'm going to get some swag. And I went and got it. And then the guy's like, I got kids, man. I got, they're going to need, if I don't bring back swag, they're going to be pissed. And so, and now Ben is wearing his.

• 20:32Sam Parr?

  Damn, I, Jimmy drove me like when we were going to the, I took a ride with them and I found that shirt that you're wearing, Ben, in the back of his car. And I just go, I'm fucking taking this. He's got tons of them. So I stole mine from him. I, I didn't know that we had the opportunity to take it like ethically.

• 20:50Shaan Puri?

  Never considered that.

• 20:55Shaan Puri?

  So Jimmy, okay, so I wanted to bring something up that he had talked about that we didn't mention on the podcast, which to me is the most interesting business that this guy has. You might be thinking, is the most interesting business his YouTube channel? No. Is it his chocolate company feastable named Feastables? No. Is it his drop shipping burger company, his cloud kitchen called Mr. Beast Burger? No. Do you know which one I'm going to talk about? Do either of you guys know? Give me a, Sam, do you know which one I'm going to talk about? I think. Ben, do you have any idea which one I might be referring to?

• 21:30Sam Parr?

  Well, no, but are you going to talk about his burger? Did you guys see his restaurant just open? Yeah, yeah, but let's talk about this other thing. Okay, okay. No, I don't know. I'm like, I wrote down what I think it is and then you, you say.

• 21:43Shaan Puri?

  All right, I'm gonna say it. It's his like kind of translation, internationalization company. Translation, Sam got it. There it is. This idea is amazing. So when we're sitting there, he's like, yeah, I got basically whatever the number one, number two, whatever, biggest channel in, in America. And he's like pulling up his like YouTube stats on, he's like airplaying onto the TV, like his YouTube stats. And then he goes, um, I also have this channel in Portugal, uh, you know, this, my Portuguese channels growing really fast. And he puts up a video, it's got 20 million views in Brazil. And I was like, and it starts talking and all of a sudden he's talking in fluent Portuguese. I was like, what is this? He's like, oh, yeah. Like it, like AI?

• 22:25Shaan Puri?

  No. So what they did was they were like, look, one of the things we, we already put a million and a half dollars into this video where I built this chocolate factory and I'm going to give it away to one of these people. How do we get more juice out of that fruit? And so what they realized was we can go international into markets where YouTube is huge, like Brazil. Brazil's got this massive population. It's huge on YouTube. And they don't have content like Mr. Beast is doing. Like he's ahead of the game for the US. He's light years ahead of the game for like Brazil or the Philippines or different places like this. And so, but the challenge is it's a language challenge. So what they did was they went, they basically hired somebody to create a YouTube channel. They said, hey, you're going to be our YouTube channel manager for this country. You're the country manager for Brazil.

• 23:10Shaan Puri?

  You gotta have our Twitter, our Tik Tok, our YouTube, all of it. You know, Mr. Beast, Brazil, or whatever it's called. Then secondly, we're going to, when we have a video here, you need to get it translated by a local, like a, like a dubbing service. So like a local translator. And I want it translated. I want the description translated. I want all of it done. And then you upload it there. You respond to the comments. You manage that community, all of that good stuff. And what they did was they would not like, they didn't just go get like, you know, some random crappy person on Fiverr to do it. They got like the guy who dubbed Spider-Man in, in Brazil, they got him to do the voice acting for this. They paid him a lot of money. They paid him like a couple hundred grand. And I was like, I feel like you didn't need to do that. You could have just got anybody. And he's like, check this out. Like basically you don't know shit about shit, Sean.

• 23:55Shaan Puri?

  And so he goes to the comments and every comment is, oh my God, Mr. Beast is Spider-Man. Like they just thought he must be that guy. Like that's him. That's that voice I recognize. And so we got like all this extra, you know, social juice. It was a little more remarkable. And again, back to our principle from last podcast, which is Just do the doper thing. Just do the dope shit instead of the lame shit.

• 24:15Sam Parr?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 24:16Shaan Puri?

  What's cooler? The cheaper guy from Fiverr or all right, you paid a hundred grand or whatever. You got Spider-Man to do it. It's like, of course, of course. What am I thinking? And so that's what they're doing in all these countries.

• 24:28Sam Parr?

  When I listen to audiobooks like on Audible, I every if I if I see a famous person is the author or the narrator, rather, I listen to it. So like I'm listening to Huckleberry Finn. Not that I really care about Huckleberry Finn, but Nick Offerman is the narrator. You know, the guy from Community. You know who that is?

• 24:45Shaan Puri?

  He's like, yeah, is he the main guy in Community?

• 24:47Sam Parr?

  Yeah, Ron Swanson. He plays like an angry, like, white country guy. Or like it'll be another guy like it'll be just like whenever I see an author who I write a narrator. If I recognize their famous person, I listen to it. So Tom Hanks doing Da Vinci Code. I didn't really even want to do Da Vinci Code, but Tom Hanks. So like the whole narrator thing. Yeah, that's pretty sick. I'm on board with that.

• 25:06Shaan Puri?

  I can't find this client info.

• 25:08Speaker 03

  Have you heard of HubSpot? HubSpot is a CRM platform, so it shares its data across every application. Every team can stay aligned. No out of sync spreadsheets or dueling databases. HubSpot, grow better.

• 25:22Shaan Puri?

  So so basically what he's done is he's like, cool, now that's okay. So he was doing that for himself. So he's like, oh, good. I'm blowing up in Romania. I'm blowing up in Philippines. I'm blowing up in Brazil. I'm blowing up everywhere. He's like, I already did 80% of the work. It's that last 20 that is foreign to me. Feels feels like a lot of work, but I can hire the people to do this. But the smart part was he's like, this is not just a way for me to expand my brand. That's already a smart business move. He then created this as a service for other big YouTubers. So now if you're whoever, you know, you're Iraq or you're you're, you know, some yes, theory or something like that, you could basically just use his service. He'll just go to you and be like, hey, do you want to be big in Brazil? We'll just do all the work for you and like, we'll keep like 30% of the ad revenue. And they're like,

• 26:07Sam Parr?

  That's crazy.

• 26:08Shaan Puri?

  Okay, yeah, like, I'm not gonna hire, I'm not gonna go and do this interview process to hire all these people and figure it out and manage this all myself. That's kind of inefficient. But what he can do is like, he can have one team in Brazil that's gonna manage 15 YouTubers channels there. And so I think this is one of the smartest businesses that he has. I think it's gonna be one of the most successful. It's gonna be pure profit, essentially. And I think he's got the distribution locked down, because if he goes to any YouTuber and explains, hey, here's what I'm doing, and you get access to my machine, they're all gonna say yes. And it's a, it's a good idea for them. It's a win-win for them, because they're just not gonna capture this extra value. And so he's doing this, and it's just another example of turning a cost center into a profit center.

• 26:52Shaan Puri?

  And I actually want to talk about some examples of those. So basically, things where this would normally just be a cost to him to run this, to have all these people on staff. But once he turns it into a service for other YouTubers, now it becomes a profit center. And so there are a bunch of examples.

• 27:08Sam Parr?

  Which I think this would make way more money than the chocolate bars. Like, I remember I ate the chocolate, the chocolate that he had, and I was like, well, you know, like, A, it's good, but I don't, it's not like that different than any other chocolate that I've had. And B, it kind of sucks that I've got to feel bad about myself if I consume a lot of your product. And C, it's only like 40, it was $40, I think, for a box. Like, it's hard to build a big business, $40 a pop. You know what I'm saying? At least when you're not, if you gotta be in Walmart or something.

• 27:37Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, which I'm sure he could do also, like, to Ben's point, he, he opened up a brick and mortar location for his burger joint, and normally you're like, ah, you know, opening up a restaurant in a mall, maybe not the best idea. And then he like posted his video, there's like, literally, I don't know, 50,000 people in the mall, like lined up. It was like, people were lined up, up and down each concourse, just like, you know, the restaurants on floor one or whatever, like, people were on floor four, just lined up in this line, and it was insane. So, you know, this guy's got pretty massive pull.

• 28:07Sam Parr?

  So what are the other examples of, of turning cost centers into?

• 28:10Shaan Puri?

  So the first one that came to mind for me was AWS. So AWS today is basically Amazon. Amazon's, most of its profits come from AWS. And AWS is basically when Amazon had to have a really robust set of servers to run their own website. And then they were like, hey, the way we use this kind of like server infrastructure and it's just like this big expense for us to have this server farm. What if we just rented this out to other companies who want to have like Amazon level servers? Without having to go rack their own servers in some data center. And that became AWS and basically AWS spits off billions and billions in profit now. What started as what would have been a billion dollar loss. And so, you know, that's a huge swing, but I have some others that I want to explain to you.

• 28:54Shaan Puri?

  So, Michael Girdly who came on the pod, he goes, my favorite is this company called Freight Alley. They did what, what HubSpot kind of did with the hustle. They basically have this thing called Freight Waves, which is Freight Waves is basically a media company. And Freight Alley is the like the SaaS company. So basically they're a SaaS company that created a media arm that goes and normally a media company is, you know, has expenses, but they turned it into a profit center. Basically that acquires customers for the SaaS business at a negative customer acquisition cost. So the media company is profitable and brings in customers to their own SaaS, you know, at the bottom of the funnel. So that's one example, not exactly the full thing, but.

• 29:37Sam Parr?

  Dude, that guy, the guy who started that company, his name's Craig, I've hung out with him a bit. He bought a big piece of property in Tennessee and he's the one who's turning it into like an airport. It's like a country club, but instead of a golf course, there's an airport. So he's selling, he bought a huge plot of land. Now he's sub-selling or he's selling smaller plots of land and there's going to be an airplane strip and a hangar that everyone has access to. So if you're a flying enthusiast, you buy a home there and you can use this. And he bought a magazine, I think it was called airplane.com or something like that. He bought a magazine and he's like, I'm going to buy a magazine and do the same thing that I did. But instead of software, we're going to do it with these houses.

• 30:16Shaan Puri?

  Wow, that's, it's amazing. Another, another example, so any D to C company that eventually takes their own warehouse and starts fulfilling for other customers. So they turn their own warehouse, which is a cost for them for fulfillment into a profit center because they're doing fulfillment for themselves and others. Very similar to AWS. Okay, here's another one. Uh, this guy George on Twitter just sent me this. He goes Ford decided to own the timber supply for their vehicles. So there was lots of wood in the early cars.

• 30:44Sam Parr?

  Yeah.

• 30:44Shaan Puri?

  They ended up with, they ended up with so much leftover wood. They started selling charcoal and that's Kingsford Charcoal Company.

• 30:50Sam Parr?

  That's my favorite, man. That's my favorite story.

• 30:53Shaan Puri?

  That's a, that's kind of amazing. I didn't know that. Uh, is there more to know about that or did we kind of nail it there?

• 30:58Sam Parr?

  No, you nailed it. So basically they were, so Ford was making frame, car frames and they had to burn a whole lot of wood in order to, you know, bend the steel or do whatever they had to do. And they had all this leftover charred wood and they're like, what do we do with this? And I think it was Henry Ford's idea. I forget exactly whose idea, but he goes, hey, let's, let's start selling this. Let's make something out of this. And that's where it kind of came from. There's a bunch of entrepreneurs that have kind of like done things like this. Uh, Standard Oil did something like this where they're like, this gets more complicated and is less interesting. But like, hey, this off put of kerosene is like this weird like fluid that's like really greasy. Is there anything we could do with that? And like WD 40 or something like that.

• 31:38Shaan Puri?

  Right.

• 31:38Sam Parr?

  Like they've like, there's like stories like that with, with Standard Oil as well.

• 31:42Shaan Puri?

  And so here's a couple of others. So Foursquare, Foursquare had an API for businesses because they needed all this data about businesses where they're located, all that stuff. And they needed that for, to power their own Foursquare app. And Foursquare kind of went up and this hype cycle then went down many years, sort of forgotten, sort of written off. But a new CEO joined and almost oriented the company around this. It was like, look, the more valuable thing is not people using Foursquare, the app and playing the game. It's all the data we've collected about businesses where they're located with like hyper precision. And so we actually just need to make that API available to everybody. And they productized the API and they make, I think more money off the API. I think they make more money off the API than they do off the core app at this point. So, so I think that's, that's another great example of this.

• 32:27Shaan Puri?

  Amazon has a bunch, like Amazon was a bookseller, right? So their main cost of goods sold was their books. But then they create Kindle and Kindle self and the self publishing business and the public and all that. And so now Kindle itself became a profit center. What so what used to be a cost, which was selling books. Now they sell eBooks that they kind of own. And you know, they turned that profit. Same thing with payments, right? Amazon had to pay a merchant like a fee every time they processed a payment. So they created their own payment software, Amazon called Amazon Payments. And now like, you know, for our e-comm store, I just went, I was like, I think we take Amazon Payments. Where does that money go? And I went and found an account we have with Amazon Payments. I had like 400 grand sitting in it. Because we use that service, Amazon Payments,

• 33:08Shaan Puri?

  to take payments for somebody who wants to pay with Amazon. And so they turned it into a profit center along the way.

• 33:14Sam Parr?

  That's crazy. Another one is Slack. So Slack started out as a game. And when they were working on their game, they it wasn't actually doing that well, but they created a way in order to communicate effectively with their with their coworkers. And they said, ah, fuck this game. This thing is actually way cooler. Let's actually turn this internal tool into a proper tool. We thought about doing that. So here's but here's the problem with this. This all sounds sick. A lot of people say, yeah, let's do this. And so a lot of publishers are doing this. And so they are like, let's sell our CMS. So BuzzFeed, Vox, Washington Post, I forget who else. It was like, they build these custom website builders and they say, let's sell this. And I think oftentimes it's a distraction. And they always say, well, Amazon did it. And I looked into this. Amazon did

• 33:59Sam Parr?

  launch AWS pretty early on. But do you know how many employees they had when they did it?

• 34:05Shaan Puri?

  How many total employees are on AWS?

• 34:07Sam Parr?

  Yeah, total employees. There's about 5,000. So they were already a multi-billion dollar company with it. So they the way the story is told is like, oh, they were just this little guy. No, they had about 5,000 people when they launched AWS. Like, it was like a, you know, it was a it was a thing. It wasn't just like a scrappy startup. And a lot of times, people like will say, well, let's also sell this. It's like, dog, we've got eight people working here. Like, who's going to do this? So that's always like, I've always been conflicted with this strategy.

• 34:36Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, that's, that's true. You guys considered it. You would have done it for what? Is it your?

• 34:41Sam Parr?

  Our email sending platform. So like, we built our own for a little while and then we made it really easy. So like, it is so basically hypothetically, which there aren't that many people doing this. If you had a daily email, it was really easy for you to talk to your advertiser, make the ad and insert into the thing, have them approve it. And like, it was simple and easy to use. But the problem is, is like, there are not that many people doing it. You know what I mean? And B.

• 35:04Shaan Puri?

  Well, there weren't then, but like Beehive basically does that now. And they're actually growing pretty well.

• 35:10Sam Parr?

  Well, maybe. I could have been wrong, but I don't think I'm gonna end up being wrong. I think that, I think that I'm not convinced that what they're doing, at least ads for a daily email, that business, I don't think will be, ever be that particularly big. And Beehive, so Beehive is kind of like Substack. So it's these services that you get subscribers and they take a small amount of revenue based off of how much you're making from subscriptions, or you just pay them like a fee on how many subscribers you have. Do you think that some of those businesses actually can become huge venture-backed sized companies?

• 35:45Shaan Puri?

  So I just invested in Beehive, actually. Initially, I didn't invest because I was like, uh, I don't know how big this gets. And then two things sort of changed my mind. The first is, every time I needed something for Beehive, the founder was an absolute animal on my request. Like, because we use it for Milk Road, so.

• 36:04Sam Parr?

  Yeah, he's great. His name's Tyler. He's awesome.

• 36:06Shaan Puri?

  Tyler was, he's like, it's already on a, like, he'd be like, it's already on a roadmap. The question I have is, A or B, this like nuance about it that shows he's been thinking about this noodling on it. And then he'd be like, when do you need this by? Because normally, like, it's scheduled to be out in three weeks. But if you need three days, like, you know, the weekend exists, I might be able to, you know, whatever. So he was able to like, rip off feature after feature after feature that we needed. And everything that was like, you're like, hey, we have this question. It's like him and his team would dig in. So he, so I saw that he kind of had that grit that you like in an entrepreneur. So I got to basically test drive the entrepreneur. Which I normally don't get to do with most investments. Um, you know, with most investments. You meet them, you do a call with them, they say all the right things, they send you the deck,

• 36:48Shaan Puri?

  you look at it, you look at the product and like, you gotta make an educated guess at that point. You don't get to spend months working with the actual entrepreneur as a customer and see how quick they are with features, how fast they're responding, the quality of the product, all that good stuff. So, so that was the first reason. The second reason was, I've come to realize that the, that the best investments I've made have been ones where what looks like a small market, what looks niche, turns out to not be niche. So we got acquired by Twitch and our last company, Twitch was a kind of the quintessential example of this, right? Like, yeah, but like, how many people are going to watch other people play video games on the internet? Like, how many people are going to stream themselves playing a video game and how many people want to watch that? Looked niche and turned out to be a massive behavior.

• 37:34Shaan Puri?

  This is also true with like, you know, now Shopify seems really obvious. I remember talking to the VC who led Shopify's early rounds, you know, maybe six, seven years ago. And Shopify at that point was still like legit, but it's not what it is today. It's not like, seen as it is today as like one of the like blue chip startups. And it was the same thing. It was like, okay, you know, like, just like Etsy, like, you know, how big do these actually get? These kind of like indie maker seller type things? Isn't Amazon and big brands just going to like dominate this? Like, how many mom and pops are there going to be on the internet that can actually do this well?

• 38:09Sam Parr?

  And Dude, I remember that. I remember Tim Ferriss invested in Shopify and he was talking about it. And I was like, Shopify, that's so silly. Like, you know, this thing exists, this exists, this exists. Why don't you just use this thing? And like, you know, I remember like, I forget what those were, like Big Commerce. Do you remember Big Commerce?

• 38:26Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, there's Big Commerce, there's Woocommerce, there's Magento, there was all these. And so that was actually a bigger problem, which is if you looked at the existing ones that had been around for like 10 years and they were kind of like, Like those are pretty like, uh, they're cheaper, they're harder to, they're more flexible, but they're way harder to use. And they were kind of like from a different era. So they kind of like peaked at a certain point and you look at those.

• 38:48Sam Parr?

  Well, they were peaking back then.

• 38:50Shaan Puri?

  That, yeah, you're like, how big does this get? Look, that's how big it gets. Not very big. And the same thing happened with Airbnb. I remember when Airbnb was like coming out and it was like, oh, well, it's couch surfing, but better, right? Like, I don't know if people remember couchsurfing.com was like, one of the early, oh, that's a cool idea, but it never made a bunch of money, never got huge. Cause again, how many people really want to go live, sleep on, you know, someone's couch or extra bedroom? In, uh, in some city. Okay. Yeah. It's this kind of vagabond hippie traveling shit, but like, that's not mainstream. And so if you looked at couch surfing to see how big Airbnb could get, you're like, well, sit very, very similar idea. Been around for longer, seems to have plateaued around this size, not that big. And like, you would have been wrong. And so I guess I've kind of learned that like,

• 39:36Shaan Puri?

  the absolute biggest wins in venture come when you find something non-obvious. And the non-obvious, the non-obvious to me typically is like, just fundamentally like product categories or markets people aren't going after, or markets that other people think are small, that actually are going to turn out to be very big.

• 39:53Sam Parr?

  There's this really great story with Sam Altman, who at the time was the president of, uh, what's it called? Y Combinator? And Brian Chesky and Brian Chesky is getting, or maybe he, he was just worked at Y Combinator and Brian Chesky in 2000, must've been 2011 was getting ready to pitch, you know, so Y C, you go through this eight or 12 week incubator. At the end, you pitch a bunch of venture capitalists and Y C helps you a bunch of ways, including getting your pitch right. Brian Chesky's with Sam going over his pitch. And he goes, this company one day is going to make a hundred million dollars a year. And Sam was like, Brian, like, can you just do me a favor? Anywhere in this presentation where you have like a number, could you do me a favor and add a zero behind it at the end of it?

• 40:36Shaan Puri?

  No, no, he goes, he goes, change all the Ms to Bs. Investors like Bs.

• 40:41Sam Parr?

  Yeah, he goes, anything that you have an M, I want to see a B, change it all. And I don't remember exactly how the story goes, but it was paraphrased in such words like Brian goes like, but that's lying. Like, there's no way that we're gonna do that. Like, it's just impossible. No one has done this before. He goes, yeah, but you know, it seems like a big market and here's my reasoning. Like logically, it makes sense. There's so many people who stay at hotels. Like, of course you can do this. I mean, someone can do it, I bet. And she'll just do me a favor and change all those Ms to Bs. And even Brian Chesky didn't believe it. And there's another story, by the way, where I remember, what was Amazon's first VC? Was it Madonna? Is that what it's called Madonna? It's like, it looks like the word Madonna. They're based up in Seattle. And he's pitching and I listened to a podcast with the guy he pitched.

• 41:25Sam Parr?

  And the guy he pitched tells a story of Bezos saying like, look, if we, if we get our act together and we make this work, I think we're gonna make like a hundred million bucks a year. In like the next five or 10 years. Like, that was his pitch. He's like, that's how big I think we're gonna get. And the guy was like, ah, needs to get a lot bigger than that, but whatever. You seem really competent. So it's just proof that like, even the people starting things sometimes also are like, I don't know how big this can get. I don't, I don't know if this is gonna work out.

• 41:52Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, like there's that clip of Mark Zuckerberg talking at a college. And he's like doing a interview, a campus interview. He's like, hey, we're here with the campus report. And we have Mark Zuckerberg, the founder of the Facebook.com, which is blowing up around campus. People really like your website, Mark. You know, he's like, he's basically, he's wearing basketball shorts. He's got a red solo cup he's drinking out of.

• 42:15Sam Parr?

  Yes.

• 42:15Shaan Puri?

  And he's just sitting there and they're like, so you've expanded to like, whatever, seven colleges? And where are you gonna go from here? You're gonna end up going into high schools or you know, you're gonna, how big can this get? And he's like, oh, I don't know. Like, right now, it's, Facebook is cool. Like, it's cool for colleges, really, really useful. And sometimes if you try to make something too big, like it loses what makes it cool. Like, maybe it doesn't, like, why does it have to be bigger? And maybe it doesn't have to be bigger. He says that. And then like, you know, sure enough, fast forward 10 years. He's like, we need to launch a satellite to India to give these rural villagers internet.

• 42:51Sam Parr?

  More users.

• 42:52Shaan Puri?

  The Facebook. Yeah, we need more. And so, you know, he turns into an absolute animal. By the way, this MMA clip of Zuck.

• 43:00Sam Parr?

  Awesome.

• 43:01Shaan Puri?

  Seen this?

• 43:02Sam Parr?

  Awesome. Killed it. He killed it. He killed it. So for the background of this, uh, Zuck went on Rogan and talked about a bunch of stuff. It was, it was actually a pretty good interview, I think. Zuck actually kind of redeemed himself a bit, but, uh, in, in part of the interview, Zuck said, I've been training MMA. And people are like afterwards, yeah, right. Okay, nerd. He posts this video of him training. He looks really good, way faster than I thought he was going to be like fighting. He was fighting.

• 43:29Shaan Puri?

  Even if he wasn't good, the fact that he does this, it's just like, I, basically this was my tipping point. I already liked Zuck, but now I'm team Zuck, which there's not a lot of us here, right? We can't even play a game of pick a basketball. There's four of us on team Zuck. We're just still looking for a fifth. And, and somebody tweeted this out. They were, they go, Jack Dorsey, um, you know, he goes, Jack Dorsey, uh, hasn't worked in 10 years, uh, constantly like constantly meditating, uh, you know, dating different models, no family, tries to run multiple companies at once, fails, uh, Twitter never makes anybody, blah, blah, blah. Zuck, you know, begrudgingly runs a trillion

• 44:12Shaan Puri?

  dollar empire, you know, faithfully monogamous, uh, great dad, uh, trains MMA, like all these, like it was like Jack Dorsey doesn't work out. It's like Zuck trains MMA and it's just like highlights, like, you know, basically like, why does everybody hate this guy again? Like, what has this guy done? Like, you know, and, and, and some people are like, he, he ruined democracy. It's like, no, dude, he built basically the modern telephone. You're pissed that some people make phone calls that you don't like. That's, that's basically what happens on Facebook is that he built the app everybody uses to communicate everything stupid or amazing. And sure enough, some percentage of that is not content you like and is not controllable. And the guy's literally

• 44:57Shaan Puri?

  built, like, you know, it was at a trillion dollars at a point in time. He's built a trillion dollar company and he just keeps running it. He keeps trying to make it better and he keeps trying to push the envelope and he keeps trying to make like better and better products and services. And do you think he really cares about like, do you think he sits there being like, ah, I want to influence the election, but no, that's like, you know, that's the, that's a pain in the ass he's trying to deal with. It's not like his agenda. People make him out to be like this evil guy. And it's like, dude, people, people don't like him because he's awkward. Okay, all right. You're a bully if you don't like him because he's a nerd. You know, like, think about who you are if you don't like Mark Zuckerberg. You're a fucking bully. You just think he's awkward and that's how you judge him. Like, screw you, man. The guy's awkward.

• 45:38Sam Parr?

  We should do, we should do like an entire episode about this because there was one beautiful line that he said. So Rogan was like,

• 45:46Sam Parr?

  "Look, like you had these Russians doing this and influencing the election." And then the Hunter Biden story, story came out and you guys like took it down and you told them it wasn't allowed. And then, and like Rogan was like criticizing him or at least voicing all the criticisms that Facebook had. And Mark goes, "Yeah, look, like, how would you handle that situation?" And

• 46:09Shaan Puri?

  Love to see you do.

• 46:10Sam Parr?

  Yeah, and Rogan goes, "I don't know." And Zuck's like, "Yeah, we didn't die there." And so our reasoning was like, we like took down the Hunter. Like, I don't even remember how he explained it. He's like, "Well, our reasoning was this, this and this."

• 46:24Shaan Puri?

  Well, he was like, "The FBI came to us, told us there's about to be a story that could be massive misinformation and go viral." We just, basically, they just got their wrists slapped because they previously let other information spread too fast. That they said, "You should have known that was fake news. You should have stopped it." So now the FBI comes to you and says, "There's about to be a dump of fake news that's going to go viral." So what do they do? They're like, "Okay, we shouldn't just like, I guess we shouldn't block the news, but maybe we should like suppress it in the news feed so that it doesn't go super viral." Because, you know, isn't that what we just got in trouble for? You know, he didn't say all this, but like, it's obvious. This is obviously what, what would you do? The FBI comes to you and says, "It's about to be a misinformation leak." And then it, it comes out and sure enough, it starts going viral.

• 47:08Shaan Puri?

  You have to decide, do we just let this take over the platform and like, "Oops, we did it again." Or like, should we play it safe and like not let this spread like wildfire until we can fact check this and see if this is real or not? And like, by the time it does, one side, the left or right is going to be mad at you. And it's like, if you just think about this shit, it's like, The person who in 2016 was like, the election was rigged, the Russians manipulated the election. Then here, fast forward to 2020, Biden wins, and then the, the right is now like, the election was rigged. Biden was counting votes that didn't count, you know, like, it's like, they're both just like-

• 47:43Sam Parr?

  They just switched.

• 47:44Shaan Puri?

  You're the same, you're the same dude on either side of the aisle. Like, don't you realize like you're, it's like the Spider-Man meme, they're pointing at each other? And it's the same thing over and over and over again. It's like, um, you know, she's got, you know, the bad thing on her server. It's like, he's got the documents in Mar-a-Lago. And it's like, they just keep doing this on, you know, left, left and right. It's like, how is a communication platform supposed to win? Cause literally, no matter what you do, one side is going to think you're being completely unfair or the other. There's no-

• 48:13Sam Parr?

  Zuck did such a good job, though. That is such a good answer. And he like, humanized himself so much there. And he goes, we, we, our reasoning was, and he said exactly what you said about the FBI doing this. And this is what we thought seemed right at the time. How would you have handled that, Joe? And, and Joe was like, wow, that's a good question. I guess I would call someone who I think knows the answer and just talk and listen to him. He goes, yeah, that's what we did. You know, we called these people, we talked to them, and this is the best that we did. And could it have been wrong? Maybe, but like, you know, we don't really know the right answer. And it kind of, I realized like, oh, wow, this guy, Zuck, he's 38 years old, or 36 years old? Like, he's in his thirt, his mid 30s, been doing this since he was 21.

• 48:55Sam Parr?

  Like, he's just making it up and trying to make some good decisions along the way. Is he maybe a little evil? Maybe, but we all got a little bit of us in that. We all have a little bit of that. And like, he's mostly doing a good job. And it just, he did a really good, that, that question of, well, how would you have handled it? That was such a beautiful way, because it was like, oh, you're, you're fallible. You're just like me, you know, like, we're not that different.

• 49:16Shaan Puri?

  Is he a ruthless competitor in the sport of business? Sure. I wouldn't expect somebody who's number one in their game to not be a ruthless competitor at their game. Like, I wouldn't expect them to be a softie who, who doesn't care, or you know what I mean? Like, it's insane to be that people hold this, like, this crazy standard. Other reasons I'm Team Zuck. So- You know about his like once a year missions that he does?

• 49:40Sam Parr?

  Yeah, like one year it was like travel the country in an RV.

• 49:45Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, so he did. That was like when it was like election time. He's like, I need to, I don't know. I need to meet middle America. I'm going to like, you know, I will visit places with Walmarts. Like, you know, that's like his mission for the year, that year.

• 49:56Sam Parr?

  Dude, by the way, I respect when people do that so much. I was watching this music video with Mike Posner. You know, Mike Posner, and you probably love him.

• 50:02Shaan Puri?

  Of course, yeah, he went to do.

• 50:03Sam Parr?

  He, you know how he walked across the country?

• 50:06Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, so he like, I followed it. Yeah.

• 50:08Sam Parr?

  Yeah, it was awesome. He spent like.

• 50:09Shaan Puri?

  He got bit by a rattlesnake.

• 50:11Sam Parr?

  Yeah, and he like, he got bit by a rattlesnake and he had to go home for two weeks and learn to walk again. And then he shipped right back out to where he was and he went to, you know, he's like this guy who you imagine as being this like California cool kid guy or a New York cool kid guy. And he ends up walking the country. He's like, I walked around places with Confederate flags. I went to like rural Kansas. I went everywhere and I saw America and I realized that like, I don't know shit about America. These people are a lot different than I thought and it was really nice to get to know like other types of people. I love when people do that. And so I'm team Zuck a little bit because he did that.

• 50:41Shaan Puri?

  So he did that, but the first ones he did, I feel like were things that he was actually just self-interested in. So he, I remember one of his first ones was that he was going to only eat, if he was going to eat meat, it had to be meat that he had personally hunted. So he's like, I've never hunted, I think he had like never hunted before. And he's like, I don't really know where my food comes from or like what goes into this showing up on my plate. And I want to like, actually like with my hands, I want to experience this entire process. So he had to hunt it. He had to like prep it or kill like, you know, clean it or whatever and cook it and then eat it. And so that's what he did for one year. One year he was just like, I want to learn Mandarin. I think Facebook really wanted to go into China. So he's like, he showed up in China to give a talk.

• 51:22Shaan Puri?

  He did the whole thing in Mandarin and surprised the shit out of the whole crowd. They were like, it was like, you know, the scene in Eight Mile where he's going off on in the rap battle. It was like, the whole crowd was like, oh, what's going on? Like, he's just speaking fluent Mandarin with like the proper tone and like, dude, what a machine to in his like spare time, just pick up these hobbies and then do them. And now he's doing like MMA and biology, who's a, you know, a friend of ours. He, he tweeted this out. He goes, it has begun. I forgot who he said. He goes, first.

• 51:53Sam Parr?

  Great line. It has begun. We could say that for so many things. That's a beautiful, those are beautiful first words.

• 51:58Shaan Puri?

  He called it. He called it. He goes, first. First Bezos, now Zuck. I'm seeing it across the board. Tech people starting to seriously lift and train. Testosterone replacement therapy, quantified self, optimal diet. Eventually, this will be productized for all. But transhumanism starts with personal chatification.

• 52:21Shaan Puri?

  Personal chatification, turning yourself into an absolute Chad. And I know you, I don't know if you saw this tweet or not, but every word of this, you know, you were just doing the, you're at the black church saying, you know, your gospel, the choir of Donda Academy is singing and you're like, amen to this, right? Like, because you've been doing this, right? You've been doing your own personal chatification.

• 52:42Sam Parr?

  Five years now, I've been becoming Chad and you want to know something? It is awesome. It is so awesome. I've influenced you a little bit to, you've slowly become into it. It's the way to live, man.

• 52:53Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, I'm not like a Chad. I'm like a, like a Charles right now. Like I need to become a Chad. I'm just, I'm just slowly working. I'm like a Brett, trying to get, trying to get to Chad right now.

• 53:03Sam Parr?

  Dude, just like lifting, this sounds so, I don't care how it sounds. It is what it is. Lifting heavyweight and then just like eating meat and vegetables. I just feel happy. I feel good about my life and I look at old pictures of us when we were recording the podcast at my office and my face was so much more round and I'm disgusted. I'm like, you are such a fucking filthy animal. You are filthy. You are a horrible human being. And I look at myself, it has made me so much happier. And like, I'm, I'm pumped that the nerds are finding out about it.

• 53:36Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, I think Bology lifts, I think he power lifts as well. So, uh, so yeah, there's.

• 53:40Sam Parr?

  Just like, there's so much research that shows, dude, like being stronger, it just make, uh, they say, uh, you know, a strong body, a strong mind. Like when getting stronger, like there's so many benefits to living a longer life. What's his name? What's the, what's the guy we like, the hunk scientist?

• 53:58Shaan Puri?

  Huberman?

• 53:59Sam Parr?

  Huberman. Yeah, Huberman, don't act like you don't know.

• 54:03Shaan Puri?

  For the record, we never have referred to him like that in private, which is why I was confused. You acted like we always call him the hunk scientist in text message.

• 54:12Sam Parr?

  Dude, I have a friend that like went and got in a cold plunge with them and he goes, he's ripped, like he's jacked. And I'm like, yeah, of course.

• 54:19Shaan Puri?

  These cold plunges are like made for one. Like how close together were they? Like an occupancy of one.

• 54:27Sam Parr?

  That's a new protocol. You gotta sit on top of one another. That's what he's telling people. He's like, uh, hey, uh, you know, if you, uh, sit right here on my lap, uh, you're gonna live like an extra hour.

• 54:42Sam Parr?

  My dude, my friend did a thing with him and he goes, he's just jacked and, uh, I, I don't even remember how we started talking about this, but he, he, he did a podcast the other day. He talked about like living longer and he's like, yeah, lift weights and go for runs and you'll, and you'll live longer. So I'm happy.

• 54:57Shaan Puri?

  You probably do this stuff. My trainer has been doing this stuff called myofascial cart, myofascial release or something like that. Do you do this?

• 55:03Sam Parr?

  Like a, like a massage?

• 55:05Shaan Puri?

  It's basically foam rolling, but on steroids.

• 55:07Sam Parr?

  I go to a doctor two days a week and get it done on my calves.

• 55:10Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, I knew, I knew you would do this as a, as a, as a full Chad, you, you of course, uh, are like, you know, all the way in on this. It's basically, he has these like, like these trigger point balls and like these like different like torture devices, I'll call them. And he's like, all right, so I've done foam rolling before. It's, it's okay. It's kind of boring, a little bit painful. Um, not the most fun thing in the world. And, you know, it was always recommended to me like, hey, just, you know, you should foam roll tomorrow morning or tonight, you know, that'll help you with your soreness. I was like, yeah, you know, sure. Right after I eat my broccoli and asparagus and like, you know, you know, say my prayers and get to bed by nine PM. Like, of course, yeah, I'll also foam roll. Why not?

• 55:51Shaan Puri?

  Add it to the other list of shit. I'm not going to do that. I shouldn't do. And so with this, we do, we now, he, he, he got me to do it. He's like, the first 25 minutes of every workout, we're doing this. So he'll be like, all right, find this spot like in your hip flexor and take this like rock hard ball and you're just gonna like put all your body weight on that thing and wherever it feels most painful, that's the spot. I'm like, oh my God. He's like, he's like, he'll hear me like basically wincing and groaning in pain. And he's like, all right, cool. Just you found it. Now stay there for three and a half minutes. And I'm like, three and a half minutes? And so this has turned out to be, I bring this up because A, I find it interesting. I, I think there's a lot of fitness movements that have a business like angle

• 56:34Shaan Puri?

  to them. And I feel like you've been ahead of the curve on a lot of this. Like, uh, you were on ATG or the kind of like knees over toes stuff before most people. And in general, like what, what do you call it? Movement therapy or something? Movement?

• 56:45Sam Parr?

  Yeah, mobility.

• 56:46Shaan Puri?

  Mobility training. This myofascial cardio release, like I think this is also like an area where the puck is going and more people are going to be interested in it.

• 56:55Sam Parr?

  Well, it's like a

• 56:55Shaan Puri?

  And you feel amazing as soon as it's done, right? Like you feel absolutely amazing when it's done. But the, the part of it that I find interesting is basically I, for me, working out is not like, I want to get as jacked and shredded as possible. It's basically like, I want a part of my day where I'm not at my computer, sitting down. I'm not on my phone. I'm not even thinking about work. And I know that could be other things. It could be meditation or whatever, but like a way, a way more achievable form of meditation for me is exercise. Exercise where I basically, I'm only focused on the thing that's right in front of me, like being absolutely present because there's like a giant weight that's about to fall on my face or hurt, I'll hurt my shoulder or I'll injure myself or I'm like in extreme

• 57:38Shaan Puri?

  pain, doing this like trigger point massage or whatever. And I'm not, I can't go anywhere else. I can't think about the past. I can't fantasize about the future. I can't worry about what notification just buzzed on my phone. And I'm just like out of it for at least one hour a day. And for me, that became the real like benefits of this more than like, oh, you know, I'm getting more fit or I have more energy or whatever. It's like, it forces me to do that, like the, like the real version of meditation. So that's what I like about it the most.

• 58:08Sam Parr?

  Dude, I told you what Scott Galloway said, right? He is like

• 58:11Shaan Puri?

  No, what did he say?

• 58:12Sam Parr?

  The whole point, he said this in an interview and I thought it was amazing as, as like, I've been trying to say that, but you just said it so much better. He said in the interview that Ryan Holiday, he goes, basically, I think the whole, like, if you are not fit enough that you can kill and eat most people in the room or outrun them, then you have a problem and you should like work, you should, he's like, I pretty much just exercise just so I can kill and eat most people in a room or just be able to outrun them. And he said that, and I was like, oh yeah, that's actually, that's the way to go. That's the way to live.

• 58:43Shaan Puri?

  No, that is so stupid. That's the part where I'm like, okay, I don't even want to be a part of this movement anymore. Like, why is that? How is that even relevant? That's like saying, you know, I want to be fast in case an asteroid is going to hit the earth and I got to get out of the way. It's like, what are you talking about? What is this scenario where you need to eat and kill or run away from everybody in the room? Has this ever in your entire lifetime happened?

• 59:04Sam Parr?

  That's, that's at all not like, it's like, it's more like, why does a car need to go 120 miles an hour when the speed limit's 60? Like, it just, because it's just, it doesn't know, but it's awesome that it does. And because it can, that makes it just a little bit cooler. Are you ever going to drive 160 miles an hour? No, of course not. But like, I still want that Ferrari just because I want to know I can do it. And like, the act of training to get to be able to do it is awesome. So do I intend to eat you? Eh, TBD, probably not. But like, it's cool that I could like, if I wanted to, I could do X, Y, and Z to you. And just training for that, I think is awesome.

• 59:42Shaan Puri?

  I would taste horrible. Like, if you're going to eat somebody, I'm not your guy, you know?

• 59:46Sam Parr?

  Dude, I heard the best place to eat someone is their, is like their thumb, right here. I heard that's like, that's good meat.

• 59:52Shaan Puri?

  It does actually look like a chicken drumstick, actually, now that you think about it, right? Like, that little, that little section?

• 59:58Sam Parr?

  Yeah, I heard that's the best part.

• 1:00:01Shaan Puri?

  I always thought calf would be the way to go, because that looks like the giant, like, turkey leg at Disneyland. I thought, I thought calf would be where I would do those on the island.

• 1:00:08Sam Parr?

  Muscular parts, muscular parts aren't good. You know, you want fat. The fatter the part is, is the better. Your calves are pretty lean compared to the rest of your body.

• 1:00:15Shaan Puri?

  It's just your butt, basically, then. You're gonna eat-

• 1:00:17Sam Parr?

  Your butt and your belly. Yeah, you ever had pork belly, man? That shit's good.

• 1:00:21Shaan Puri?

  It is. It's amazing. Actually, salmon belly, fantastic. And pretty much any belly.

• 1:00:27Sam Parr?

  Yeah, you want the fat.

• 1:00:27Shaan Puri?

  I'm a belly guy.

• 1:00:30Shaan Puri?

  I think we've gone off the rails and we will-

• 1:00:32Sam Parr?

  We started with Kanye and we ended with eating each other.

• 1:00:37Shaan Puri?

  What part of each other would we want to eat?

• 1:00:41Shaan Puri?

  Uh, we had fun. All right, see you.