#2449 - Raul Bilecky

Raul Bilecky is a researcher, explorer, and creator of the YouTube channel “Pillars of the Past.”www.youtube.com/@PillarsofthePast101https://www.patreon.com/PillarsofthePastwww.pillarsofthepast.com Perplexity: Download the app or ask Perplexity anything at https://pplx.ai/rogan. Don’t miss out on all the action this week at DraftKings! Download the DraftKings app today! Sign-up using https://dkng.co/rogan or through my promo code ROGAN. GAMBLING PROBLEM? CALL 1-800-GAMBLER, (800) 327-5050 or visit gamblinghelplinema.org (MA). Call 877-8-HOPENY/text HOPENY (467369) (NY). Please Gamble Responsibly. 888-789-7777/visit https://ccpg.org (CT), or visit https://www.mdgamblinghelp.org (MD). 21+ and present in most states. (18+ DC/KY/NH/WY). Void in ONT/OR/NH. Eligibility restrictions apply. On behalf of Boot Hill Casino & Resort (KS). Pass-thru of per wager tax may apply in IL. 1 per new customer. Must register new account to receive reward Token. Must select Token BEFORE placing min. $5 bet to receive $300 in Bonus Bets if your bet wins. Min. -500 odds req. Token and Bonus Bets are single-use and non-withdrawable. Bet must settle by and Token expires 2/22/26. Bonus Bets expire in 7 days (168 hours). Stake removed from payout. Terms: https://sportsbook.draftkings.com/promos. Ends 2/15/26 at 11:59 PM ET. Sponsored by DK. 30% off + two free gifts. Visit https://ARMRA.com/ROGAN Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:12Joe Rogan?

  Joe Rogan Podcast, checking it out. The Joe Rogan Experience. Training by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.

• 0:22Joe Rogan?

  Bro.

• 0:23Speaker 01

  Joe.

• 0:23Joe Rogan?

  Very nice to meet you, brother.

• 0:24Speaker 01

  It's so good to be here.

• 0:25Joe Rogan?

  I have enjoyed your content tremendously, online. And I really got into a video this morning that I was watching where you found this megalithic site that was undocumented in Peru. It's incredible that they still have these ancient sites that, for whatever reason, it seems like the money that they get gets stolen? Like, the money that is supposed to be allocated towards documenting these things and registering these things, people just say, "Fuck it, I'm gonna pocket it," and...

• 0:59Speaker 01

  It happens a lot more than you think.

• 1:01Joe Rogan?

  Just hard to believe, man. Some of the stuff that you document is very heartbreaking. Like, one of them was when you flew a drone over these ancient ruins and you showed the amount of places that have been looted.

• 1:17Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:18Joe Rogan?

  And it's just all of it. It's just pop... You see these holes, and when I first saw that, I'm like, "What is he showing me?" And then you're like, "These are all spots where someone has dug in and looted, and most of it has been done in this area of Peru over the last 20 years."

• 1:37Speaker 01

  Over the last 20 years.

• 1:38Joe Rogan?

  So, from 2006 to 2026, more...

• 1:41Speaker 01

  I would have... The biggest amount of looting happened... It's actually died down some, but the end of the 20... So, 1980s to 2010s, I would say.

• 1:52Joe Rogan?

  That's when it really...

• 1:53Speaker 01

  That's when it really took off.

• 1:56Joe Rogan?

  Phew.

• 1:57Speaker 01

  And you can tell from the trash that's left there, like cigarettes that were only produced in the 80s.

• 2:01Speaker 01

  They've become landfills of of human remains.

• 2:02Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 2:03Speaker 01

  Soda bottles that were only produced in the 90s. It's uh this this place you're talking about is, I mean, it's eight full kilometers of just,

• 2:05Joe Rogan?

  How nice of them to steal the artifacts and leave trash.

• 2:12Speaker 01

  it looks like the moon. Every single location has been looted and like I gotta go up up there and see what this looks like. And and so.

• 2:20Joe Rogan?

  Pull up to the microphone a little bit more. So looting, what are they at at that point in time? I mean, these are hundreds, thousands of years old, these sites. So what are they finding?

• 2:32Speaker 01

  Well, a lot of the mummies that I've, because I've I've found mummies that have been torn torn apart, literally like they're the cotton that they're wrapped in, the textiles that they're wrapped in. I mean, it's just, they've been scavenged.

• 2:44Joe Rogan?

  Are they looking for jewels?

• 2:46Speaker 01

  Or for some sort of metallurgy, like on on the person themselves. Um, the unfortunate thing is, I mean, all you'll see is you'll just see these these bones littered across the landscape with broken pieces of pottery and.

• 2:59Joe Rogan?

  That was also disturbing, how much bones you see everywhere. So this is, uh, you look, you see a bone right there. These are all human bones that you just find scattered.

• 3:09Speaker 01

  That's all cotton and what we're about to see here is an actual mummy that's been torn apart.

• 3:17Joe Rogan?

  This is, it's so sad that there's no protection.

• 3:22Speaker 01

  Nobody's going out there, man. Nobody, except for the looters.

• 3:26Joe Rogan?

  But I know very little about Peru, other than, you know, obviously the Nazca lines, the mummies, all these different things, the the mystery of the place. Pe- Pe- show on that, please? Uh, the video was over. Oh, it's over? Um, but.

• 3:38Speaker 01

  There's a, there's a couple burial burial drone shots.

• 3:43Joe Rogan?

  But it's just.

• 3:45Speaker 01

  You go to the top.

• 3:46Joe Rogan?

  How big is Peru? I don't even know geographically how large it is.

• 3:50Speaker 01

  I mean, Peru Peru Peru is huge. I mean, it takes up, this is another, this is a different looted site.

• 3:58Speaker 01

  So this is all, this, all of this is in the Paracas-Nazca Ica region.

• 4:03Joe Rogan?

  And these skulls are just sitting there?

• 4:05Speaker 01

  So the looters will oftentimes leave, I don't know, set them up in this fashion. There isn't a site I've gone to where I haven't seen something like, set up like this in, in the end. But, so, I pull out to show the scale of it. I mean, every little piece of white you see is, is some part of a human.

• 4:28Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 4:31Speaker 01

  It's tragic, man.

• 4:34Joe Rogan?

  Just so much history lost.

• 4:36Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 4:37Joe Rogan?

  And, so, does this stuff wind up in private collections? Is, do museums ever get it? Like, what, what happens to that stuff?

• 4:46Speaker 01

  I don't think museums get it at all. It's private, private buyers. I actually met a, the term is "wakerro", it's a grave robber. I actually met one in Miraflores in Lima proper, at one of the artesanalas where they're selling, you know, ancient goods. Well, some of them have real things that they, they go out and they loot and, I mean, that... This is one of the things I've been thinking about, like, for, for the future. Like, what, what can be done about this? Because the government, nobody from the government's going out there. And so, these things end up in private collections, textiles, humans, pottery, things that you would see in museums.

• 5:28Speaker 01

  It's just nobody from that official administration is taking the trip to go out there and preserve these things.

• 5:35Joe Rogan?

  It seems like just the ancient civilization of Peru is a massive mystery. It, it seems like there are a lot of uncovered stories in that area.

• 5:46Speaker 01

  Peru is a hotspot.

• 5:47Joe Rogan?

  And it doesn't seem like there's an incredible amount of research being done other than by independent people.

• 5:54Speaker 01

  They, I mean, so...

• 5:57Speaker 01

  Joe, there's just so much in Peru. I mean, you throw a stone and you're finding an ancient archaeological site. I mean, they're doing, whenever they do construction, they end up coming across structures or bones. I mean, this last expedition, I went all over the country and there is no lack of archaeological sites. So, the money and, I just, the money it would take to fund research on all these places is just extreme. It's extreme. I think there's a lot of history that goes missed because of what's currently happening, but a lot of times, a lot of the research is focused on what's going to bring tourism.

• 6:37Joe Rogan?

  Right. Like Machu Picchu, things along those lines, which is also insane.

• 6:42Speaker 01

  Phenomenal.

• 6:43Joe Rogan?

  It's just incredible. Like, that place is like, what, why, how? Why'd you build it up here? Fucking nuts. A good friend of mine just actually went, just recently took his family up to Machu Picchu and he's like, it doesn't even make any sense, man.

• 6:57Speaker 01

  Dude, Machu Picchu is what started, uh, my family's from Peru and so I would grow up going there and I have this old, back when you were filming with cameras with like a videotape, um, there's footage of me finding seashells at Machu Picchu.

• 7:12Joe Rogan?

  What?

• 7:13Speaker 01

  When I was like 10 years old. Back then, you could go wherever you wanted. You didn't have to stay on a path and so, I don't know.

• 7:19Joe Rogan?

  And for people that don't know, Machu Picchu is like, what, 12,000 feet above sea level?

• 7:23Speaker 01

  Yeah. And so, and so I'm a kid and I mean, I saw the footage, the grainy footage and I'm showing my dad on the cam, like, dad, dad, look, I found seashells. You know, I saw them in, in, inside of, uh, they were like glinting in the mud in the wall and so I took them out. And that's what started this whole process for me. I was just like, that, it blew my mind that there were seashells way up there and so I studied about earth cataclysms and ancient history and when sea levels were different and that just, that's, that is a moment that started kind of this whole path for me.

• 7:55Joe Rogan?

  How old were you at the time?

• 7:56Speaker 01

  Ten or 12.

• 7:57Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 7:59Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 8:00Joe Rogan?

  Um, how many times have you been there since?

• 8:02Speaker 01

  Well, growing up, we used to go every year and a half or so, and that's continued into my adulthood. It's only been recently, the past two years, that I've been doing what I've, what I've been doing, which is like hardcore solo expeditions.

• 8:16Joe Rogan?

  Part of living a healthier lifestyle means being extra careful of what you put into your body. AG1 Pro gets that. Their formula was carefully crafted with vitamins, probiotics, and superfoods your body needs, plus enhanced support for your workout and recovery, including creatine. In fact, AG1 Pro contains five grams of Creovitalis, high-quality, German-made creatine monohydrate, and that matters. This Creovitalis is made in Germany under tight quality control and is 99.9% pure. So you're not getting some cheap version cut with fillers. If you want a high-quality supplement made with the right stuff, AG1 Pro is a no-brainer.

• 8:59Joe Rogan?

  Go to drinkag1.com/joe for a limited time. Get a free immune support bundle, including a bottle of omega-3 fish oil and vitamin D tossed in with your first subscription order of AG1 Next Gen or AG1 Pro, backed by a 90-day money-back guarantee. That's drinkag1.com/joe. After a year away, Canelo Alvarez is back in the ring, October 31st, facing undefeated Christian Mubili live on The Zone, and DraftKings Sportsbook has you covered for the fight. With DraftKings Sportsbook, your number one sportsbook for live betting, you can stay

• 9:41Joe Rogan?

  connected as the action unfolds and makes your picks in real time. Whether you're locked in for the main event or watching the full card with friends, DraftKings Sportsbook gives you another way to follow the fights you already care about. Download the DraftKings Sportsbook app and use the code ROGEN. New DraftKings Sportsbook customers can spend five and get 200 in total bonuses within 21 days. That's code ROGEN. In partnership with DraftKings, the crown is yours.

• 10:06Speaker 02

  If you or someone you know has a gambling problem, call 1-800-MYRESSET. 21 and over, Virginia only. Eligibility restrictions apply. $50 in non-withdrawable bonus bets issued every seven days via click to claim for 21 days. Bonus bets expire seven days after issuance. For additional terms and responsible gaming resources, see sportsbook.draftkings.com/promos. Limited time offer.

• 10:27Joe Rogan?

  This episode is brought to you by the Mosquito Bowl. Here's a story that's pretty incredible. After Pearl Harbor, four of the best college football players in America walk away from promising NFL careers to enlist in the Marines and fight in World War II. And the craziest part, it's a true story. These guys had their whole lives ahead of them, but traded the glory of the gridiron for the brutal reality of combat, where the stakes were life and death. Directed by Peter Berg, the guy behind Friday Night Lights, and starring Nicholas Galatzin, Bill Skarsgård, Ray Nicholson, and Tom Francis. The Mosquito Bowl, now playing in theaters.

• 11:08Joe Rogan?

  And so, when you look at a site like Machu Picchu, or any of these ancient sites, what is the timeline that conventional archaeologists attribute?

• 11:22Speaker 01

  I mean, they attribute it to the Inca, which, you know, 14, late 1400s, early 1500s. I think the Inca were conquered by the Spanish in 1530, I think. And so, most of that megalithic architecture, they attribute to the Inca. However, there's evidence that, there's a site, Jamie, if you could pull it up, it's called Vinyake. This place is, there's megalithic architecture with precision that goes down 50 feet under this mountain. It's, check this out.

• 12:03Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 12:11Joe Rogan?

  This is crazy.

• 12:14Speaker 01

  So I believe they filled in the top to, in modern times, but There's mortar at the top. And very soon, there's going to be a guy who shows us a map.

• 12:25Speaker 01

  That's incredible.

• 12:26Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 12:32Joe Rogan?

  And so you see very different construction.

• 12:34Speaker 01

  Very different construction.

• 12:36Joe Rogan?

  From the bottom to the top. But that's how it always is, right? The most complex stuff.

• 12:42Speaker 01

  So that's, that's showing that this architecture here, it goes down 50 feet into this mountain.

• 12:51Joe Rogan?

  And what do they think this was?

• 12:54Speaker 01

  So this complex is all attributed to the Wari. It's attributed to the culture that came right before the Inca, which doesn't make much sense to me because what you see on the surface, that's Wari construction.

• 13:06Joe Rogan?

  Which is small stones.

• 13:08Speaker 01

  Right. And.

• 13:10Joe Rogan?

  What have, what have they held together with?

• 13:12Speaker 01

  Uh, mud mortar, mud as mortar. And, uh, but then, so this site has only been 4% excavated. 4%. It's underneath all of it is that type of architecture, which is crazy.

• 13:29Joe Rogan?

  So you have mud and mortar with very small stones. Then underneath it, you have precision cut megalithic stones.

• 13:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:37Joe Rogan?

  And how big are these stones and where are they supposedly coming from?

• 13:41Speaker 01

  Uh, that, so here's a funny story. Um, so this place, if you look, you can, you can find it on, on Google Maps. It's, you know, they call it the El Complejo de Wari. So the Wari complex. But if you go back to the Spanish chronicles, Pedro Cieza de Leon, when he was in Tiwanaco, so Tiwanaco where Pumapunku is in Bolivia. When they asked the natives, you know, who built this? They say, we don't know. It was built before us from the people from the lake. The same people who built Vinyake. That's what the natives said. That place, Vinyake, is.

• 14:19Speaker 01

  Eight hundred, a thousand kilometers from Tiwanaku. So, and it's the same construction, so it makes sense, kinda what they're saying. The people who built Tiwanaku also built this place. But before they know, before they knew that, uh, they didn't witness it. They was just there when they got there, is what the locals said.

• 14:38Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's a lot of stuff, right? That's part of the weirdness of South America.

• 14:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:45Joe Rogan?

  And, you know, even Mexico, right?

• 14:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:48Joe Rogan?

  It's, that's the weirdness of the Aztec structures. I didn't know that until pretty recently, that the Aztecs labeled, like, Tinochitlan, the place where the gods were born.

• 15:01Speaker 01

  I didn't know that.

• 15:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 15:02Speaker 01

  I didn't know that.

• 15:03Joe Rogan?

  They, they don't attribute that to themselves.

• 15:07Speaker 01

  To themselves.

• 15:07Joe Rogan?

  They, they found it when they cleared the area.

• 15:10Speaker 01

  I mean, you think about it, I, I've, still to this day, you know, I, I was up in Lake Titicaca, and, I mean, there's structures all over the place, but you're like, where were these people living? And, you, cause there's no remnants of cities or towns, and the reason is, is because in modern times, people have recommissioned the blocks and started, and used them for their farms and their homes and things like that. You have a good location, a place of reverence, a place, you're gonna build, the next, the next culture's going to build on it, you know? And I think that's happened a lot, in a lot of places.

• 15:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Well, everywhere, right? I mean, that's Lebanon, too, that's Baalbek. It's, it seems to be the case, that those,

• 15:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:51Joe Rogan?

  Those immense stones where the Romans built on top of them.

• 15:55Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 15:56Joe Rogan?

  The Roman documentation is pretty precise. They documented everything, they never talked about these enormous thousand-ton stones that are seven meters up in the air.

• 16:06Speaker 01

  And we're just gonna put them in the base of our structure here, right?

• 16:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, like, what? They didn't even talk about them. They talked about the, the, these beautiful structures that are on top of that are clearly Roman, but the stuff underneath it just defies logic. And some of the stones that were never moved and put into place, that were cut and quarried, but just never moved. Sixteen hundred tons? Like, how?

• 16:31Speaker 01

  And things you can't replicate, you know, nowadays. It's...

• 16:36Joe Rogan?

  That's what's crazy. Like, with modern machinery, we can't do it.

• 16:41Speaker 01

  I mean, it's... I've always, when I started this path, you know, I was, you know, Fingerprints of the Gods was one of the first books I picked up.

• 16:51Joe Rogan?

  Me too.

• 16:51Speaker 01

  My dad had it in his library and, and, and that just, that set me off on a, on a course and uh. The, the inability to be able to, to, I, I don't know, I don't, I don't buy the mainstream. Uh, it, it's, it feels a little bit lazy, the, the responses that, that the mainstream kind of gives to some of this stuff, um, as opposed to just saying, I don't know.

• 17:22Joe Rogan?

  It's purposely ignorant. It's more than lazy because if it was just lazy, the, I mean, they've been confronted by all this other alternative archaeology evidence and all these other people that have like explored these things and shown, and that there was always the conventional wisdom that there was no society back then that was capable of doing this, so they had to attribute it to more recent societies.

• 17:45Speaker 01

  Until Gobekli Tepe.

• 17:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Then you're like, okay, you guys need to shut the fuck up.

• 17:50Speaker 01

  It's, I mean, the, the, there's a power in admitting like you're, if we're looking for the truth here, then it's like, okay, we got this evidence that disrupts this that we thought before, all right, just say that.

• 18:03Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 18:03Speaker 01

  You know what I mean?

• 18:04Joe Rogan?

  They can't.

• 18:04Speaker 01

  Just say it.

• 18:05Joe Rogan?

  It's fascinating that they can't, you know, because they are like every other form of academia, they're, they are just like, I mean, you might as well be talking to a gender studies teacher, just like they don't want to look at reality, they just did just want their narrative and they want to be the gatekeepers of information and then they just want to push that narrative forward and they're so mean.

• 18:28Speaker 01

  Dude, it, I only started recently, being on X within the past year and I'm just like, the cattiness of it all, man, is.

• 18:38Joe Rogan?

  Well, it just exposes them, exposes their personality. And they're just not the type of people that I want to talk to about anything. Especially not, you're not the gatekeeper, if you're a forty-one-year-old person, you're not the gatekeeper of ancient history. You can't be. There's too much. There's too much all over the world. It doesn't make sense. None of it makes sense. And that's, I think, why they're so terrified of people like Felipe Biondi. And the scans underneath the pyramids. Because if he's right, and it appears he is, over two hundred different independent scans. And they all say the exact same thing. If he's right, you guys are fucked. Because you have to, you're gonna eventually have to say, "We're wrong."

• 19:21Speaker 01

  It's, you, you have a moment here where you can choose which direction to go. Pretty soon, that moment's gonna be lost.

• 19:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 19:29Speaker 01

  But it's like, this is what the evidence is presented, and like you said, verified over two hundred different studies. It's like, alright, we might be wrong, let's...

• 19:38Joe Rogan?

  Right. They don't want to do that. They're still digging their heels in, and they're just discrediting themselves, which is fascinating. It's really interesting. It's really interesting to watch these assholes just like flounder.

• 19:52Speaker 01

  Well, and, and it makes me think, you know, what's the reason behind it? Is it pride? Is it ego? Is it because you wrote some books on it that you need to keep selling? Is it because it's in textbooks that universities use? I mean, it, there's a lot of layers to it.

• 20:07Joe Rogan?

  It's all the above, but you can tell just by the way they communicate online, a lot of it is ego.

• 20:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, a lot of it is ego and just really bad personalities. You know, these people that are accustomed to never being questioned, accustomed to being in the hierarchy of academia, where, you know, you have these tenured professors, and then they have the people that are coming up under them, and they all follow the same sort of rigid structure. And so, any heterodox thinkers, anybody who comes in from outside the box, they just get shit all over.

• 20:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, and there's no open-mindedness. I know, I don't know if this is like a parable or something, but, you know, I don't know. Some story where there's, there's a truck going into a tunnel, and it gets stuck. And it's backing up traffic, and nobody can get through. Everybody's trying to figure out what the hell, how to get this truck through. And just, you know, some, some farmer walks up, and he's just like, "Take the air out the tires." And, and problem solved. And so the inability to let other people come in with, with thoughts and opinions, it just, it really, um, I think it's, it's a real detriment to, to, to the study of these things because in my approach to some of the places I've gone, I think it

• 21:22Speaker 01

  is that, yes, we have research, yes, there is a level of understanding at a lot of these places, what happened, but it's also that going into it with a fresh set of eyes, you know, sometimes, I mean, I get so locked in my work, sometimes I can't see outside of it, you know, sometimes it takes another party to come in and, and all of a sudden your mind is blown in a completely different direction. I don't see that level of openness to things on the side of a lot of, a lot of the mainstream academia when it comes to this stuff.

• 21:52Joe Rogan?

  Super Bowl 60 deserves a sportsbook built for the moment. DraftKings Sportsbook, an official sports betting partner of Super Bowl 60, puts you right in the center of the biggest game of the year. Anything can happen during the Super Bowl and DraftKings has your back with early exit. If your player goes down in the first half, you still get paid in cash when your bet settles. No bonus bets, no waiting. While other sportsbooks don't offer injury protection, DraftKings covers the entire first half, even the second quarter. An early exit works on live bets, too. Pre-game or in-game, DraftKings has got you covered. New to DraftKings? New customers can bet just $5 to get 300 in bonus bets

• 22:35Joe Rogan?

  if your bet wins. Download the DraftKings Sportsbook app now and use the code ROGEN. That's code ROGEN to turn $5 into 300 in bonus bets if your bet wins. In partnership with DraftKings, the crown is yours.

• 23:11Speaker 02

  Which expire in seven days. Minimum odds required. For additional terms and responsible gaming resources, see dkng.co/audio. Limited time offer.

• 23:19Joe Rogan?

  Well, people have to really understand that the whole concept of being stream academia is only a few hundred years old. And that's what's weird. It's like, so these very recent structures, these very recent establishments, want to be the gatekeepers of information of a vast swath of the world. I mean, it's not possible. It's not possible that you know everything.

• 23:45Speaker 01

  It's not. I was thinking about that.

• 23:47Joe Rogan?

  You know a lot. They know a lot about things they have discovered. They do. They know a lot about Mesopotamia. They know a lot about Iraq, all the amazing stuff that they find. Some stuff, they're very accurately dated. But it doesn't, it doesn't explain things that you can't explain. And they want to try to-

• 24:08Speaker 01

  Just fit it into the-

• 24:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. That's what's goofy.

• 24:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's, I mean, look, if the puzzle piece doesn't fit, stop trying to force it.

• 24:14Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's also, it's like more gigantic, spectacular pieces. And you're like, well, those aren't important. I mean, Ben Van Kirkwick, with this most recent discoveries, where they're using the ground penetrating radar to find the labyrinth, and this 40-meter-long metallic object that's inside of an atrium down there? Like, what is that thing?

• 24:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, I have, I hope it's something- My, if, if whatever, if they go looking, and I hope they do. And this is the other thing. It's like, let's start putting money towards this, like, now. You know what I mean? Like, figure this out. I don't know why I thought this. I think it might be a meteorite. If it's some sort of, like, metallic thing.

• 24:59Joe Rogan?

  40-meter-long meteorite?

• 25:00Speaker 01

  I know, I know.

• 25:01Joe Rogan?

  That's a fucking civilization-ender.

• 25:03Speaker 01

  But, and imagine the next civilization coming across that thing, and hearing the stories. It's like, shit, let's worship this there. Like, let's revere it somehow and put it in an atrium. That's just my thought. Yeah, exactly, exactly.

• 25:17Joe Rogan?

  Like, there's a meteorite- Yeah, there's a meteorite at Mecca that they all go to touch. Which is kind of crazy, right? But completely makes sense, right? Something comes from the sky, it lands, causes chaos, and then you worship it.

• 25:33Speaker 01

  I mean, that, uh, also wasn't one of like King Tut's knives was made out of a meteorite or something like that. I mean, so they were finding these things, you know? Forty meter one is pretty big, though.

• 25:43Joe Rogan?

  I know, but also Tic Tac shaped.

• 25:46Speaker 01

  That's the, that's the other thing. I'm like, so when it comes, I'm just like, let's go, let's go.

• 25:52Joe Rogan?

  Well, you know, that's part of the Bob Lazar lore.

• 25:55Speaker 01

  I remember.

• 25:56Joe Rogan?

  Bob Lazar said that when he was told that at least one of these things came from an archaeological dig. Like, what? What, what, what do you mean? He's like, that's what they were telling me. I don't know. But they told me that one of them was from an archaeological dig. So these things are really old.

• 26:14Speaker 01

  Dude, and, and his accuracy was something with the element one eighteen, one fifteen, something like that.

• 26:19Joe Rogan?

  From nineteen eighty-nine, when element one fifteen wasn't even discovered until the two thousands.

• 26:26Speaker 01

  I mean, that's why when, when he's, I forget who I was talking to outside, but we were talking about, I think it's talking to Jamie about that, about, uh, Bob Lazar talking about some of these things coming from an archaeological sites.

• 26:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 26:42Speaker 01

  Let's go find it.

• 26:43Joe Rogan?

  Right. Well, that's where it gets really weird. Where it gets really weird is these mummies.

• 26:49Speaker 01

  Oh, we're gonna go to the mummies.

• 26:51Joe Rogan?

  We go there, Jamie?

• 26:52Speaker 03

  Uh, Eric Burleson, a representative, talking about how he's asked the White House to give DOD the power to let them go see this stuff, including that buried UFO.

• 27:05Speaker 04

  Reportedly, an object that is not in this country, that is so large, it cannot be moved, uh, that they've built an entire building around it. And I think that, I think, uh, either Greer or another individual has actually mentioned this site, but I'm not going to mention it because it is a classified location. But there is a, a really apparent, there's reported a really large. Object and that's one of the locations that I'm requesting to get to. It's going to involve a lot to get to make that happen, but that may be the final destination.

• 27:39Joe Rogan?

  Shit like that makes me want to run for president. Cause that's all I would care about. The economy would be in shambles. I'd be like, show me the UFOs.

• 27:46Speaker 01

  Do you think, do you think they'd do it? Cause, cause I've heard that like the,

• 27:51Speaker 01

  I mean, it's on that need to know basis where they're keeping stuff from presidents, you know? Kennedy got too close.

• 27:57Joe Rogan?

  I don't think that's what they killed Kennedy for, but I think there's a bunch of things, but.

• 28:01Speaker 01

  They, they, no, there's, there's a whole lot of layers.

• 28:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but the UFO people love to think that it's UFOs is why they killed Kennedy. But they think everything's UFOs, but it's, it definitely seems like, I don't know about the evidence, you know, because it's just stories. And that's the problem is that a lot of this stuff, and this is how I feel when a lot of people come on the podcast and talk to me, you know, supposed whistleblowers. Some of them I think are legitimate and some of them I think are disinformation specialists. I think they're designed to muddy up the water. And this is the, what, you know, what they're saying is designed to muddy up the water. And that's what they're trying to do. They're trying to make a lot of this stuff look silly and, and push certain narratives and just create confusion.

• 28:47Joe Rogan?

  And I think a lot of it is probably some black budget, weird science stuff that we have. But then it begs the question, where'd you get that? Is, is that really like the Diana Pasulka work where she's talking about their, essentially these things are donations and that we're supposed to like, take these things and try to figure it out. And then you look at some of the creation of some different inventions that happened very quickly after Roswell.

• 29:18Speaker 01

  And our, our civilization just, I mean, just been on a boom ever since.

• 29:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Weird stuff, like the fiber optic stuff and transistors, the, just the, the, the history of the creation of a transistor and the people that were involved in it. It seems awful fucking fishy.

• 29:38Speaker 01

  I mean, I, I try to stick with what I, evidence that I can make out tangibly and it just gets so murky. Like, like you said, it just, it just, all of this gets so murky that I, I don't, I don't know how the truth would even land, you know?

• 29:57Joe Rogan?

  Well, the truth would have to land if there was an overall comprehensive effort by all of the world governments. And there would have to be some sort of unity in this and some, some sort of like a, a recognition that this is really important for the entire human population to understand our past.

• 30:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:18Joe Rogan?

  And if this is nonsense, let's find out that it's nonsense. And if this is real, this changes everything.

• 30:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:24Joe Rogan?

  And when you look at, just, just look at the vastness of the cosmos, it's not outside of the realm of possibility that this stuff either came from somewhere else or was here because they were here. That there was an advanced civilization here, whether it's our civilization or whatever the hell those mummies are. You know, cause the, the tridactyl mummies are weird.

• 30:48Speaker 01

  We could, we could.

• 30:49Joe Rogan?

  That stuff's weird.

• 30:50Speaker 01

  We, we can talk about that, cause I went, uh, I, I, I did a deep dive with my friend Will and there, there is, there is too much amuck going on with these things for me to, for me to objectively say, uh, that they are what people are claiming them to be. There, there's just, there's too much wrong with this, with the picture.

• 31:12Joe Rogan?

  Right. Well, first of all, a lot of them are fake.

• 31:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:15Joe Rogan?

  For sure.

• 31:16Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 31:16Joe Rogan?

  A lot of them, people have seemingly created with a bunch of different animal bones.

• 31:22Speaker 01

  And human bones.

• 31:23Joe Rogan?

  And human bones and pieced them together, but then there's the weird ones. You know, there's the weird ones that are mummified and they're in the fetal position and you see a structure that doesn't exist in the human body, but it's complete with tendons and ligaments and some of them have eggs inside of them.

• 31:41Speaker 01

  That, Joe, I'm telling you, man, I, look, I want to believe.

• 31:45Joe Rogan?

  You think it's bullshit?

• 31:47Speaker 01

  I think it is much closer to bullshit than it is.

• 31:50Joe Rogan?

  All of them?

• 31:52Speaker 01

  I think what we're dealing with here are real human beings from the past, they are ancient, uh, that have been put together. Will from Incredible History has done some amazing work with some amazing specialists, I mean, people at the top of their field on this stuff, looking at the x-rays and the dicom files, and calling out, um, calling out cuts, calling out incisions that were made, calling out why things don't make sense. And

• 32:22Speaker 01

  for me, the reason I put out my last video on the Nazca mummies is because there's this whole other narrative too, of where the money is, who's making money off of these things, and, and I think that-

• 32:32Joe Rogan?

  Is there money being made off those little mummies?

• 32:36Joe Rogan?

  Please.

• 32:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, let me-

• 32:37Joe Rogan?

  You got something?

• 32:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:41Speaker 01

  So, I remember, uh, I forget who you were talking to, it might have been, uh, Jesse Michaels, but

• 32:49Speaker 01

  I remember you saying, you know, "These are one of the greatest art projects if they were fake," right? Well, if you just scroll to the right here, this is what the-

• 32:58Joe Rogan?

  That's a goofy one.

• 33:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, but that's what the Wachero is selling. He sent that to me personally, the guy selling these things, these goofy ass-

• 33:07Joe Rogan?

  For people at home, you can't see it?

• 33:09Speaker 01

  There, there's a folder on there that has the pictures, uh, in the photos-

• 33:14Joe Rogan?

  But what is the one that is, uh, the female that's in the-

• 33:18Speaker 01

  Maria.

• 33:19Joe Rogan?

  Is that what they're called?

• 33:20Speaker 01

  Uh, Maria is one of them. I mean, so Will had on, um, Dr. William Morrison, and, uh, Dr. Proctor, Dr. Wilson, I mean, like, people in the, in the, in the top of their, um, in the top of their field analyzing these things, and-

• 33:37Joe Rogan?

  This is, this one looks fake as fuck.

• 33:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, everybody, you can get this for fifteen thousand dollars. This is come, this comes directly from the Wachero finding these things, by the way.

• 33:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 33:46Speaker 01

  I, I, I did like a little undercover thing, uh, trying to see what I could lure out of him, um-

• 33:53Joe Rogan?

  This is not particularly compelling to me.

• 33:57Speaker 01

  But it's in the same, it's in the same class, coming from the same place supposedly, the same group of people are providing these things to the, um, yeah, thi- this is in, this is in the ECA museum, this is where they're housed.

• 34:10Joe Rogan?

  Monsterrat, is that what the?

• 34:12Speaker 01

  Monsterrat, yeah.

• 34:12Joe Rogan?

  Monsterrat? So these are, like, again, these are not that compelling to me.

• 34:18Speaker 01

  The small ones, no, the big one, so the big ones, though, are, um, gosh, they, they, they keep coming out with new specimen, there's a new one, Antonio, who's a teenage boy, except for his feet, his feet are, have arthritis in them, and, and, which indicates that they put the foot bones of another specimen on, on this thing.

• 34:42Speaker 01

  Now, what, what these doctors have done, look, and, and here's the thing, I mean, I want to, I want it to be clear, I would love nothing more than

• 34:48Joe Rogan?

  Of course.

• 34:49Speaker 01

  Peru to be the hotspot of, of, of some new species, I, I don't think we're alone, I don't think we've identified every species, but also, I'm not, I'm not putting my money on these things coming out as, uh, authentic, I think they have been used with authentic bones, which is why they're getting the dates, um, I think that...

• 35:12Speaker 01

  Dude, I, I, I did a deep dive on this stuff.

• 35:15Joe Rogan?

  Please go, no, feel free, tell me, tell me what you found out.

• 35:18Speaker 01

  I initially wasn't gonna make the video I did, but after spending days staying up, doing this research, I just, I, I, I couldn't not do it, um, and I found, like, I even watched the whole Gaia series on this stuff, and, and I found myself, like, getting entranced by the, like, maybe, maybe, and then

• 35:37Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 35:38Speaker 01

  And then also watching, the whole reason of, of putting this stuff out there is like, look, make your own decision, but don't just take in the fantasy, take in the, the other possibilities too, and, and just have all the information before you make your decision.

• 35:50Joe Rogan?

  Well, clearly, we know some of them are fake, clearly, clearly, you know, even people like me who want so desperately to believe, and it's also the, the corresponding artwork from the past, the three-toed, three-fingered artwork, which is weird.

• 36:08Speaker 01

  That is, that is weird, and I saw some of those geoglyphs down there in the middle of nowhere, you know, these, and so, um, and then the whole thing with, you know, the... James Fox and the Brazil incident and that thing. You know, the, the, the three fingered thing is a weird thing in history.

• 36:33Speaker 01

  With these bones.

• 36:37Speaker 01

  I mean, I'm gonna have to point you to some of, some of the videos that, that these specialists have come out analyzing the, the files. So, but where, where the money is, is exactly what's happening now. It, it's, it's.

• 36:52Speaker 01

  We have this possibility. We're gonna make a show about it. We're gonna put out this new thing. We're gonna, it goes, it goes deep, Joe. The, the same doctors, the same specialists that are verifying currently the Nazca mummies have been on the same team for the past 20 years verifying other species and specimens that they've alien hybrids and the same people, literally, my whole video, I'm just like, this is what he said in 20, 2007. This is what he said about this fake thing in 2012. This is what he said about the fake thing in 2017. And I put it back to back. So it's the same narrative.

• 37:30Joe Rogan?

  Same people.

• 37:31Speaker 01

  It's the same people, the same narrative.

• 37:33Joe Rogan?

  And so you think that the construction has just gotten more sophisticated?

• 37:37Speaker 01

  100%. 100%. They learn.

• 37:39Joe Rogan?

  What is that, the, the major one?

• 37:42Speaker 01

  Maria and, and Montserrat.

• 37:45Joe Rogan?

  Well, look at, let's find Montserrat and see, see the Jesse Michael stuff, cause he went down there and looked at them and they did scans on the bodies and. This episode is brought to you by Visible. As fall hits, we enter another season of change. Time to shift gears, drop the dead weight and upgrade the wardrobe for the drop in temperature. But one thing that doesn't need to change? Your phone. The smartest upgrade this season isn't a new phone. It's a better wireless plan. Switch to Visible, the ultimate wireless hack. You get unlimited 5G data and unlimited hotspot powered by Verizon for just $25 a month. That means keeping the phone you already have, ditching.

• 38:27Joe Rogan?

  Your overpriced phone bill and pocketing some savings for yourself. All the perks of big wireless for half the cost. Switch today at visible.com. The visible plan starts at just $25 a month. Or get the premium visible plus pro plan and save $10 on your first month with promo code Rogan. Terms apply. See visible.com for plan features and network management details. This episode is brought to you by the Apple Sports app. Guys, this is the ultimate best time of the year to be a sports fan. Football, baseball, basketball, hockey, soccer. The calendar is stacked, but it can also be hard to keep track of it all. And that is where the Apple Sports app comes into play.

• 39:12Joe Rogan?

  It is the fastest and easiest way to stay on top of all the action with scores and play by play automatically showing up on your iPhone when the teams you follow are playing. That means you don't have to figure out when the games are on and how your team is doing, which is especially nice when you're following a bunch of teams and your friends are constantly blowing up the group chat. The Apple Sports app gives you all the important game details for your favorite sports teams fast and simple. Download Apple Sports for free on the App Store or find it on your new iPhone.

• 39:50Speaker 01

  And then if I have a link to, I think it's Dr. Morrison talking about Montserrat's feet, the X-rays of his feet and pointing out that's that's on the spreadsheet.

• 40:03Joe Rogan?

  Let's see that. I'd like to see that. So do you think that these are recent creations of old bones? Is that what it is?

• 40:11Speaker 01

  That's what I think.

• 40:12Joe Rogan?

  Okay. And how do you think they did it? Is there any speculation?

• 40:16Speaker 01

  I think that so there are.

• 40:19Joe Rogan?

  So here's the. What's that, Jimmy?

• 40:23Speaker 03

  Just asked him a question. I cut him off.

• 40:24Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 40:25Speaker 03

  How did you think they did it?

• 40:26Joe Rogan?

  How do you think they did it?

• 40:28Speaker 01

  Well, I think that they, I think they've gotten very good with taxidermy.

• 40:34Joe Rogan?

  Hmm. Right, like, because we've seen that before, where you take like an owl and you attach it to an iguana.

• 40:41Speaker 01

  In fact, in, in the research I did, there was this, dude, there was this demon fairy thing in 2017. If, if you want to pull up my, my.

• 40:52Joe Rogan?

  Let's start with this, let's start with this, we'll get to the demon fairy thing soon.

• 40:55Speaker 01

  This shit is wild.

• 40:56Joe Rogan?

  So, metatarsal.

• 40:58Speaker 04

  Okay. Um, this is a, from a surface scan that was available, and I went in and just kind of removed some of the fuzziness so that I could highlight the bones. And one of the things, again, that you notice is that the joints have a lot of spacing between them. These are not joints that are in contact, so they're dislocated. Um, now, the main, the main part here, uh, this, the central area where the cuneiforms are in the cuboid, those articulate with five metatarsals normally. Um, the way the, the way these are lettered, A would go with the big toe, and E would go with the little toe. And, uh, again, just like in Maria, those are missing. But the joints are not lined up properly.

• 41:41Speaker 04

  Um, the, the shapes of the joints don't, don't go with the, uh, matching bone on the cuneiforms of the cuboid.

• 41:48Speaker 05

  Um, that's exactly what I was seeing in CT. So, none of the articulations of the, at the metatarsal junction really made any sense. And some of the bones didn't even meet an articular surface at all. So, that jumped out to me immediately, because then my first, um, question goes to, how would that even be a functional foot? So, Montserrat, that's.

• 42:14Joe Rogan?

  So, that's, hmm. Why does Montserrat have tendons? Click on that. Keep it going a little bit.

• 42:21Speaker 05

  Where I thought I saw the razy section, um, because people were talking about there still being tendons and stuff intact. And I would agree that some of those metatarsals are, as Dr. Proctor pointed out, in the correct position, but then some are just missing. So, if you wanted to elevate the illusion.

• 42:42Speaker 05

  One of the ways you could do that would be by performing a razer section and essentially that's a function conserving surgery where if you've had damage to your metacarpals or your metatarsals, they'll remove that metacarpal or metatarsal and kind of rearrange your fingers or your toes and the remaining metacarpals to keep your limb functioning. So her feet, Montserrat's feet, were just a little bit different where I think they might have used more complex procedure like that versus Maria where her feet just looked more like arts and crafts to my eye.

• 43:17Speaker 01

  So, and that's the, so Maria came up, if these things are, are hoaxes, there is also, if we're just going with that angle, there's a clear evolution of the work that goes into them behind the scenes. Like, that one came out after the first one. The first one got called out on a whole bunch of things. All of a sudden, the next iteration doesn't have the same issues.

• 43:42Joe Rogan?

  Oh, right. They're correcting.

• 43:44Speaker 01

  Yeah. And so, and that, and that's actually, I forget, there was, there was an archaeologist on X, he said that's very common in, in the world of fake antiquities. Like, they learn. Once they get called out on something, they'll figure out how to make the pottery better or something like that.

• 43:59Joe Rogan?

  Is there a lot of money in this stuff?

• 44:01Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, apparently, uh...

• 44:03Joe Rogan?

  Where's the money coming from? How does it?

• 44:05Speaker 01

  For me, it's not even in, in the, it's not in the sale. The, the most money coming from this is not in the sale of these things. It's in the shows that come from it. It's in the series. It's in the subscriptions to get to the next season where they're going to finally reveal the truth about it. There's a lot of money being made in the background with, and, and that's part of the deep dive I went on, like, following the money.

• 44:29Joe Rogan?

  So, who do you think is making them? Do you have a theory?

• 44:33Speaker 01

  Uh, I believe that, uh, there's actually, uh, it was in, it was in my video and one of Will's videos, there was a grave robber, a whistleblower grave robber who was part of this team. And he shares how, um...

• 44:53Speaker 01

  He was getting stuff for Mario, like the main guy. I, there's gotta be a team of specialists working on this stuff and I mean, money went into, money went into making these things because money's gonna come from it. I mean, that's-

• 45:05Joe Rogan?

  Seems like a lot of money, though.

• 45:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:08Joe Rogan?

  But you, you would think that that would kind of fall apart. I would. I would think that-

• 45:14Speaker 01

  It is falling apart.

• 45:15Joe Rogan?

  But it is under scans, but I would, I would say like someone would rat somebody out. These are unscrupulous people.

• 45:23Speaker 01

  So, that's... Part of the reason I also decided to make this video and, and a lot of the pushback on this stuff is like, oh, you don't, you don't trust, you know, uh, Latin American doctors or anything. No, it's, it's, it's not that. It's Latin American doctors from Peru and, and journalists from, they're afraid to talk about this stuff because things can get violent down there surrounding this topic.

• 45:49Speaker 03

  Article from 2012 about a mummy being stolen and it goes on to talk about, um...

• 45:58Speaker 03

  There's a, I said right at the bottom, I just saw-

• 46:00Speaker 01

  The Ica Mafia.

• 46:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, there's a mafia.

• 46:02Speaker 01

  The Ica Mafia, and in fact, the-

• 46:03Joe Rogan?

  Ica Mafia.

• 46:04Speaker 01

  The guy Mario who, um-

• 46:06Speaker 03

  There you go. Officials have warned about the existence of a mafia dedicated to the trade with links throughout Southern America and Europe, and at the time is eighteen million dollars a year in stolen archaeological artifacts Peru estimated was being taken out of the country.

• 46:19Joe Rogan?

  So this is all going to like wealthy people in other countries that want to have these artifacts in their homes?

• 46:25Speaker 01

  Yeah. And so that someone- I've seen the text messages with some of the American buyers.

• 46:29Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 46:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:31Joe Rogan?

  So these guys are just like, "Come on into my den, I'll show you a mummy."

• 46:34Speaker 01

  The, the, what I'm talking about specifically was, um, tapestries and, and it was actually the guy I met in the Artesanales in Miraflores. And, and he showed me video, he was very open with me. He showed me videos of, uh, because the, the buyers want to see provenance. The buyers want to see them pulling the, the artifacts out of the ground.

• 46:57Joe Rogan?

  Right, so they just bury them and then they just-

• 46:59Speaker 01

  Well, no, I mean-

• 47:01Speaker 03

  There's a store in London that sells this stuff.

• 47:02Joe Rogan?

  Mummy crow- crowdfunder leaves archaeologists fuming. So there's a guy in London that's selling this stuff?

• 47:09Speaker 03

  The Victor Wynn Museum in London.

• 47:11Joe Rogan?

  Huh.

• 47:12Speaker 03

  Cabinet dedicated to dead people. And they were trying to get a mummy from Peru.

• 47:19Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 47:20Speaker 01

  So it's, um.

• 47:21Joe Rogan?

  What do you think is going on with the skulls? The elongated skulls?

• 47:25Speaker 01

  If you, Jamie, I have a, um.

• 47:31Speaker 01

  I think that.

• 47:34Speaker 01

  That's one I found.

• 47:35Joe Rogan?

  So here's one. You've found that one?

• 47:36Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. That's one of three I've come across.

• 47:39Joe Rogan?

  Now, there supposedly is a difference in the way the, the skull, you know, when you're a child, what is it called?

• 47:46Speaker 01

  The sag- the sagittal, the sutures, yeah.

• 47:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 47:49Speaker 01

  I've found some, uh, without the, I, I, I, every elongated skull that I've, the three I've come across, all had the sagittal, all had that suture.

• 47:59Joe Rogan?

  Like a normal human does.

• 48:00Speaker 01

  Like a normal human.

• 48:01Joe Rogan?

  So these would be from pressing boards on the child's head when they're in development?

• 48:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:07Joe Rogan?

  Binding, yeah.

• 48:08Speaker 01

  But then the question is, why would you do that?

• 48:10Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 48:11Speaker 01

  I mean, I err, err on the side of, you don't just come up with that. You're trying to imitate something.

• 48:17Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 48:17Speaker 01

  You know, and so that, that's, um, and then you see it in Egypt and the hieroglyphs and stuff. So I, I, I do think like there is.

• 48:26Speaker 01

  You know, there, there's, we've, we've labeled things other species with just a bone fragment. You know, I'm like, there, there's, there's deserts of these things and, and I think that if the right study went to them, you, you might have a separate species. If, if you put the money towards studying this stuff, cause it, it's all out there, man.

• 48:47Joe Rogan?

  Right, like a separate branch of the human species?

• 48:50Speaker 01

  Possibly, yeah.

• 48:51Joe Rogan?

  Right, which makes sense. I mean, they're finding separate branches all the time.

• 48:55Speaker 01

  All the time.

• 48:56Joe Rogan?

  The Denisovans, you know, all the, all these different ones that they've found within the last 20 years. And there could be something with a larger head and elongated head.

• 49:06Speaker 01

  Yep. And that's the, um, I, I don't know enough about osteo whatever to go in depth about it, but it.

• 49:16Speaker 01

  I mean, either you had whole cultures just doing this, or there's, there's too many of them for it to have just been kind of some elitist practice, I think.

• 49:26Joe Rogan?

  And a bizarre practice at that. Why would you want to do that to your kid's head?

• 49:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:31Joe Rogan?

  When clearly it's probably not been done to your head, at least the first people. Like, what were you trying to imitate?

• 49:36Speaker 01

  There

• 49:39Speaker 01

  I forget who told me this, uh

• 49:43Speaker 01

  there is some, I think Will told me this. There, there's some woman who, who did this practice on herself, like actually trepanated her own head to, um

• 49:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, we talked about that.

• 49:54Speaker 01

  Yeah?

• 49:54Joe Rogan?

  Well, we've talked about trepanation. When we had that woman on, who did it to herself.

• 49:59Speaker 01

  Okay, well, wait, so you had her on?

• 50:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, a woman who did, what was her name again? The psychedelic lady? She's, I believe she passed, didn't she? Recently?

• 50:12Joe Rogan?

  Really fascinating woman. Amanda Fielding. Amanda Fielding. She, she died recently, right? Yeah.

• 50:17Speaker 01

  So, uh

• 50:19Joe Rogan?

  But she did self trepanation.

• 50:21Speaker 01

  She did self trepana- uh

• 50:23Joe Rogan?

  But that's not elongation of the skull.

• 50:25Speaker 01

  No, but if there's an idea that

• 50:30Speaker 01

  what that trepanation might have done, in, in the ancient days, they did it like to release the evil spirits if somebody was afflicted with some sort of psychosis or something like that, uh, but and I forget if it was Amanda, um something happens in, in, in, with your brainwaves when like the brain is exposed or something like, there's some sort of, I, I don't know, uh

• 50:54Joe Rogan?

  How the fuck do you find that out without doing it?

• 50:56Speaker 01

  But if their skull is elongated, I don't know if it gives extra space to, uh

• 51:04Speaker 01

  it, I forget who told me this, but it like changes the, the chemical

• 51:10Speaker 01

  Uh, structure of the brain that like, kinda like a DMT experience, you're open to more things.

• 51:15Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 51:16Speaker 01

  And so, an idea, an idea is that if you elongated it and had that extra space in the skull for the brain to have more oxygen, I guess, uh, maybe it affects your brain chemistry. I don't know.

• 51:31Joe Rogan?

  Just pure speculation.

• 51:32Speaker 01

  Pure.

• 51:32Joe Rogan?

  But one of, one of the things about some of these skulls they found is that the volume is larger than a, than a human brain. So, how would you do that? Just by stretching it out with boards? I mean, it would seem like you have the same volume, you're just changing the shape of it, right?

• 51:49Speaker 01

  That, yeah, but there are, there are some, like you said, that have more volume, that would appear to have more volume.

• 51:54Joe Rogan?

  And have there been no studies on these weird ones? The ones that don't have those sagittal lines that, that correspond with human veins? Cause some of them don't, right?

• 52:03Speaker 01

  Fringe, fringe studies.

• 52:05Joe Rogan?

  That's the problem.

• 52:06Speaker 01

  That is, that is the problem.

• 52:07Joe Rogan?

  What are we looking at? Are we looking at an animal head that they've kinda like shoved on to like human features and glued things together?

• 52:14Speaker 01

  Oh, with the, with the mummies?

• 52:15Joe Rogan?

  With, I mean, some of these skulls.

• 52:17Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, some of the, like, like the one you just saw, I mean, they're, they're there, um, they're, they're just out in the desert. I don't know why funding hasn't been.

• 52:27Joe Rogan?

  And you've found them, just sitting there?

• 52:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:29Joe Rogan?

  And you just leave them there?

• 52:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 52:31Speaker 01

  I put a pin on, I mean, eventually, one day, I would like to, um, I don't know, have, form some sort of relationship with the Ministry of Culture, cause the thing is, nobody's going out there and, and I spec- I specifically went to places this last expedition that I went the first year, just to see what happened a year later. And those places were looted even more. The things I had found and come across and documented, like an elongated skull, wasn't there anymore. So, these things are being taken and sold, um.

• 53:01Joe Rogan?

  Makes you wonder how much of it was there in the past.

• 53:04Speaker 01

  Dude, I mean, I don't, like, that eight kilometers of looting, it was all bones and textile and

• 53:15Speaker 01

  pottery, I, I mean, just eight full kilometers and like.

• 53:18Joe Rogan?

  So, it's an eight kilometer graveyard?

• 53:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 53:22Speaker 01

  Um.

• 53:23Speaker 03

  When I'm looking up trepanation.

• 53:25Joe Rogan?

  Ooh, that's a weird one.

• 53:26Speaker 03

  This elongated skull is coming up. Apparently this one is in Oklahoma, a museum of some kind.

• 53:32Joe Rogan?

  That's the one that looks like it's had surgery on it? And there's like some sort of a metal implant?

• 53:37Speaker 03

  And it's come up in that, in that context, like this one's coming up too, but what they're saying is that the metal implant is used after trepanation's been done to sort of patch the bone.

• 53:46Speaker 01

  Sometimes that, that has been, um, that has been documented as, as happening.

• 53:50Joe Rogan?

  What kind of metal are they using on your fucking head?

• 53:53Speaker 03

  Well, that's the weird thing too, because that metal has come up in the skull scans on like Monster Out. I don't know which one in particular had it, but they're saying it's got like metal that wasn't available, you know?

• 54:03Joe Rogan?

  What's that one in the lower left-hand corner? That one looks crazy.

• 54:06Speaker 01

  Oh, that's the Chongos skull.

• 54:07Joe Rogan?

  What's that? Okay, so that one looks different.

• 54:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's.

• 54:10Speaker 03

  It says it's in Paracas. I mean, it's.

• 54:12Joe Rogan?

  Click on that?

• 54:13Speaker 01

  It's very close to where I found the one I showed you from my footage.

• 54:17Joe Rogan?

  Okay, that skull looks nuts. So that doesn't look like a human skull at all?

• 54:21Speaker 01

  No. That one is.

• 54:23Joe Rogan?

  Like, look at the lines on that one. That's fucking crazy. That doesn't seem like it has any of the normal lines that a human skull has.

• 54:34Speaker 01

  The museum unfortunately is closed now, so you can't go see it. I tried to.

• 54:38Joe Rogan?

  Well, where is it?

• 54:39Speaker 01

  It was in Paracas. They, the Ministry of Culture shut down that museum.

• 54:45Joe Rogan?

  Oh, the collection often except, exceptionally elongated skulls found in Paracas, particularly around the village of Chongos, near Pisco, dating to around 700 BCE to 200 CE. His skulls exhibit severe artificial cranial deformation, practiced used by elite Paracas culture members to signify status. Huh.

• 55:13Speaker 01

  That, that is the, the one we just saw in that, in that museum is the largest one.

• 55:18Joe Rogan?

  But it's weirdly large. Can you find some more images of that one?

• 55:22Speaker 03

  I was trying to find some other stuff that's not three years old or older.

• 55:25Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it's okay. Let's just see the images of it.

• 55:28Speaker 01

  It might be hard for that one since the museum closed.

• 55:30Joe Rogan?

  Right, but there's images.

• 55:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:32Joe Rogan?

  So, that looks like it's a lot more volume than a human head. The one on the far left, just the one, yeah, either one, the one below it. Like that, just the image alone of that. How do you get a normal human head to be that large?

• 55:48Speaker 01

  Without some sort of.

• 55:49Joe Rogan?

  It looks like you stuffed a balloon into someone's eyeball and kept pumping it up. You know, while they're a baby. Like, what the hell is that? That's so much bigger than a normal human skull.

• 56:02Speaker 01

  And then you think if it, you know, with the skull binding practice, I mean, are you, is there gonna be some form of mental difficulties with that human being now? If it's a human being.

• 56:14Joe Rogan?

  Or expanded capacity.

• 56:16Speaker 01

  Or expanded, yeah.

• 56:18Joe Rogan?

  Because it's like.

• 56:20Joe Rogan?

  So the cranial capacity is 25% more than a normal skull. It weighs 50% or 60% more than a normal skull. Also, the eye sockets are larger and the jaw is larger and more compact. God, that looks like a different kind of human.

• 56:37Speaker 01

  So there's, there are, and when you go to these museums, there's all sorts of, there's.

• 56:42Joe Rogan?

  What's that one up there? The one to the right of your cursor. What the fuck is that? Is that real?

• 56:47Speaker 03

  That's why I was, I didn't want to go here.

• 56:49Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 56:50Speaker 03

  Bringing up a bunch of fake shit too. That's why I was trying to.

• 56:52Joe Rogan?

  Is that fake?

• 56:53Speaker 01

  I haven't seen that one before.

• 56:55Speaker 03

  I don't, it's taking me to Facebook is already a big red flag.

• 56:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 56:59Speaker 03

  I know, Facebook is a hub of fake shit.

• 57:03Speaker 01

  They can't escape it on there.

• 57:04Joe Rogan?

  It's the same picture. So a lot of them are probably AI generated, but that one that's 25% larger than a normal human skull. And larger eye sockets, the eye sockets are fucking huge. That's also weird. It's just like, that's the problem with all this looting that's been going on for so many years. It's like, they, there might have been some evidence of a different kind of human that lived with these people. And I mean, imagine if we find out that that different kind of human was what populated that area. And they were the people that built Saksay Huaman and.

• 57:42Speaker 01

  Because they, Paracas isn't, Paracas is the highest concentration of the ones that have been found. But you find them up in the Cusco region too. There's.

• 57:54Speaker 01

  There's a video I have, I think, I think it's Chisniri, C-H-I-S-I-N.

• 58:04Joe Rogan?

  Can I ask you, what is the conventional explanation for the larger capacity of the skull and then the larger eyeballs, the eye sockets?

• 58:14Speaker 01

  I don't know that there is a conventional explanation other than...

• 58:17Joe Rogan?

  It seems like you would have to explain that. Like, if that's not something different than Homo sapiens, human being like you or me, what is that? That seems, that's a different thing, right?

• 58:30Speaker 01

  You would think.

• 58:30Joe Rogan?

  Right. Like, if you look at a Neanderthal skull, and you look, mine's pretty close to one. But if you look at a Neanderthal skull and a normal human skull, you can clearly see the Denisovans, you clearly see the difference, Homo Julianns, you see the difference. That's different, man.

• 58:45Speaker 01

  It's different, and some of this, some of this stuff in their jaws and with, like, the set of teeth, there's differences. I mean, I haven't done a deep dive into it personally, but there are a multitude of differences that have been highlighted.

• 59:01Joe Rogan?

  And for people that are skeptical, one thing you have to recognize is that it's really hard to make a fossil. Fossils, we, I mean, most things that die and have died forever do not become fossils. They get consumed by the earth like a normal thing would. You know, that's why you don't find...

• 59:22Speaker 01

  I mean, yeah, yeah, and, I mean, if you're talking about going back 10,000 years, that's why you're not, you're not seeing much evidence of stuff. I mean, it's been so long.

• 59:32Joe Rogan?

  It's gone.

• 59:32Speaker 01

  These things are preserved because they're between, at most, typically at most, 2,000-ish years in that region, old. They're preserved so well because of the climate there, which is, I mean, when you're going in these barrels, you still see the hair of people. It hasn't disintegrated. Like, it's there.

• 59:52Joe Rogan?

  God, it's so creepy.

• 59:54Speaker 01

  Dude, I have some creepy photos for you, man. Like, I don't know, you might want to put a disclaimer up.

• 1:00:00Joe Rogan?

  People know on this show, you don't need a disclaimer.

• 1:00:03Speaker 03

  Here's a quick question. I found a video of a guy with an elongated skull. He's talking about these and showing it. I'm just, size I've referenced to his hand, does the skull seem small?

• 1:00:13Joe Rogan?

  It does. Unless he's got some giant ass basketball player hands.

• 1:00:16Speaker 01

  That's kind of the size of the one I, the one I showed you earlier. It was smaller than you would think.

• 1:00:22Joe Rogan?

  But a lot of the people there back then were very small, right? They didn't have access to a lot of protein. Like, I went to Chichen Itza and one of the weirder things is how small the people are there. How small the Mayan people. I'm short already and I was a giant compared to these people. It was really weird.

• 1:00:41Speaker 01

  It's typically the same.

• 1:00:44Joe Rogan?

  This episode is brought to you by Armra. Every week, there's some new wellness hack that people swear by. And after a while, you start thinking, why do we think we can just outsmart our bodies? That's why Armra colostrum caught my attention. It's something the body already recognizes and it has hundreds of these specialized nutrients for gut stuff, immunity, metabolism, etc. I first noticed it working around training, especially workout recovery. Most stuff falls off, but I am still taking this. If you want to try, Armra is offering my listeners 30% off plus two free gifts. Go to Armra.com/Rogan.

• 1:01:23Speaker 01

  Same, same in Peru until this, when the Spanish came.

• 1:01:26Joe Rogan?

  Hmm, and then the interbreeding.

• 1:01:29Speaker 01

  Then interbreeding, yeah.

• 1:01:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:31Speaker 01

  But if you go, Jamie, if you just open up the Photos Remains folder, this is, this is the stuff you see. I mean, there's still skin on some of these things, like, which is why.

• 1:01:44Joe Rogan?

  Whoa, that's creepy.

• 1:01:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, man.

• 1:01:49Joe Rogan?

  And how old is that hand?

• 1:01:51Speaker 01

  Probably, I mean, at this burial site, based on the artifacts I was seeing, it's Paracas or Nazca, so.

• 1:01:58Joe Rogan?

  Go back one, Jamie, please. Look at the cloth next to it, too. So what is that piece of cloth, you think?

• 1:02:05Speaker 01

  Ah.

• 1:02:06Joe Rogan?

  It's like it's braided at the bottom and then the...

• 1:02:09Speaker 01

  I didn't see a hole in the middle, so I don't think it was a... And it's too fancy for a sling, I think. Uh, so I'm not, I'm not a hundred percent sure.

• 1:02:16Joe Rogan?

  Well, this is a fancy sling, like some people have fancy bows and arrows, fancy guns.

• 1:02:21Speaker 01

  True, true.

• 1:02:23Joe Rogan?

  Look at the hand, man, that's so creepy.

• 1:02:25Speaker 01

  But so, and what you see to the right of it is like, what kind of looks like burlap is, I mean, that's what the mummies were wrapped in. They were stuffed with cotton or put in the fetal position, uh, wrapped with textile, then cotton, then more textile and ropes and, and that's some of the, uh, cotton and wrapping that...

• 1:02:44Joe Rogan?

  The grave robbers had torn apart trying to find gold and jewels and things like that. Yeah.

• 1:02:49Speaker 01

  And what's unfortunate is some of the, oh, some of the most beautiful pottery there, too, it's just completely destroyed.

• 1:02:56Joe Rogan?

  Wow, whoa. Look at all those bones. This is, you found this?

• 1:03:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, um...

• 1:03:03Joe Rogan?

  God, that's gotta be creepy just seeing all those dead people's bones and rope.

• 1:03:07Speaker 01

  It's, it, it affects you, man. It definitely does.

• 1:03:12Joe Rogan?

  And what's the time period of this?

• 1:03:15Speaker 01

  This, this is, um, 2,000 years?

• 1:03:22Speaker 01

  This, that, that picture actually isn't, isn't from Nazca. That was another... I have a video of this to show you, this place.

• 1:03:30Joe Rogan?

  There's just so much weirdness about Peru, just the Nazca lines alone. Like, what were they doing? Why were you making artwork you can only see from the sky? That's crazy.

• 1:03:45Joe Rogan?

  Oh, look at the hair, that's nuts. Oh. Normal-sized skull, though.

• 1:03:52Speaker 01

  Actually, that one, I, I, I don't have the pictures in that folder, but I measured it. Uh, it's, it's incredibly bulbous. It's much more bulbous than a normal skull.

• 1:04:01Joe Rogan?

  So you're just getting a side view of it, it's...

• 1:04:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I put the tape measurer there next to it and...

• 1:04:09Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy, you see the skin?

• 1:04:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, is it?

• 1:04:13Joe Rogan?

  The skin and the hair on the skull, oh, God, that's creepy.

• 1:04:20Speaker 01

  It's why, yeah, I mean, that...

• 1:04:24Speaker 01

  You know, I thought that I had gotten, this is another thing that's been set up.

• 1:04:30Joe Rogan?

  And you think the grave robbers do this?

• 1:04:33Speaker 01

  You know, there were some places where I found things set up like this with little candy, little modern candies, and what that is, is it's a tradition called pago la tierra, paying the land, and so whoever left the candy, I don't think was a grave robber, it was probably a local, and it was, it's a way of giving back to the land, giving back to the ancestors. I started doing that with, you know, if I had a soda bottle or something, you pour out some Coca-Cola, pay the land for walking to it and documenting this stuff. It was a nice little practice, but, um, so the, I would say that like 2000-ish years

• 1:05:17Speaker 01

  old, just to circle back, so some of these things, this is all on the surface, I don't go digging, that's not, it's not on me, but the Wakeros do, and that's where they're finding these things intact. They're finding these things intact where you can put them into a CT scanner, and it's gonna show the, the whole insides and...

• 1:05:42Joe Rogan?

  Has any, have any paleontologists done, or archaeologists, brought these skulls and brought them for examination to try to find out if there's intact DNA that can be studied?

• 1:05:56Speaker 01

  They're supposed to be, they're supposed to be doing DNA tests on six of the specimens, but if you watch my video, you'll see each time they've done DNA tests on all the hoaxes that they've been a part of before, I imagine the results are going to be the same.

• 1:06:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but I don't mean the hoaxes, I mean the elongated skulls with the large eye sockets, things along those lines?

• 1:06:15Speaker 01

  Uh, you know, there is a lot of, the bureaucracy of how to go about doing anything with the Ministry of Culture in Peru is, it's so disjointed, you can't get things done. You just can't get, I know, I know Brian Forster for decades was trying to get some sort of official path to do DNA studies on these things and, um...

• 1:06:44Speaker 01

  So, I mean, I'm hoping with the work that I'm doing with Pillars of the Past that some of those boundaries can be broken, where we can actually get permission to study these things, because it's Peru's patrimony, you can't just go in there and, you know.

• 1:06:58Joe Rogan?

  Right, that makes sense.

• 1:06:59Speaker 01

  And so, and it costs money to do those things, too, and you have to do it in the above-board way, and so it's kind of waiting for the okay from them.

• 1:07:09Joe Rogan?

  Well, it seems like, at the very least, the most bizarre elongated skulls should be studied more closely. It shouldn't just be like, "Oh, it's in a museum, look at the head, big, huh? Weird eyes, let's move on. Look at this bowl, it's broken, but, you know, pretty interesting, let's move on." Like, no, what the fuck is going on with that?

• 1:07:28Speaker 01

  Put some money, figure it out, and...

• 1:07:30Joe Rogan?

  Because if it turns out that there was a totally different branch of the human species...

• 1:07:35Speaker 01

  It's huge, it's huge.

• 1:07:37Joe Rogan?

  What's up?

• 1:07:40Speaker 03

  I don't know the accuracy, that's why I'm hesitant to even bring it up, but as you're asking about that, that video I pulled up is, this guy said that they'd tested 12 or 18 skulls.

• 1:07:49Speaker 01

  That's Forster.

• 1:07:51Speaker 03

  And some of them came back as Native American, I'm trying to, I'm reading the closed captioning, but some of them did not.

• 1:07:58Speaker 01

  Some of them came back from the Black Sea area.

• 1:08:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, the Caspian Sea/Black Sea area from 2,000 to 3,000 years ago.

• 1:08:04Speaker 01

  Which there have been skulls found out in those areas, too.

• 1:08:07Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:08:08Speaker 03

  I don't know what to say.

• 1:08:12Speaker 06

  ...and Caspian seas, as in the Caucasus Mountains.

• 1:08:16Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 1:08:17Speaker 06

  So that's very intriguing. What I can also share with you is what I believe was the migrational pattern, because these people, like the, some indigenous people of the Caspian area and Black Sea area, were and are dark red-haired, and also very light-skinned, and green eyes, and this seems to correspond as well with the elongated skulls. So I believe what happened...

• 1:08:43Speaker 01

  They do have red hair, a lot of them.

• 1:08:44Speaker 06

  ...about 3,000 years ago, the ancestors of the Paracas decided to leave the area because they were being invaded by someone, and so they traveled south through Iraq and Iran to the Persian Gulf, and there they wound up sailing eastwards, and eventually found their way to the coast of Peru. They're different...

• 1:09:08Speaker 03

  That's speculation.

• 1:09:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:11Speaker 01

  So that's the thing with theories like this, I'm like, let's put some effort to peer review this stuff, you know, like, let's do the studies that are needed, have multiple universities test these things, come up with the standard set of results, and then, I mean...

• 1:09:28Joe Rogan?

  So what is missing? Funding, interest? It seems like this is, in terms of like, really doing a comprehensive study of archaeological sites, Peru seems like the least studied. Is that accurate?

• 1:09:44Speaker 01

  Halfway, I would say, only because, look, there's a part of me that also feels for the Ministry of Culture in a way where there's so many sites in Peru, that to have eyes everywhere, to protect it, to have teams excavating things, every, I mean...

• 1:10:05Joe Rogan?

  Isn't that alone kind of crazy, how many sites there are in Peru? And the fact that also, you have Saxoalman, you have the Nazca Lines, you have all this weirdness in this one part of the world, like, why?

• 1:10:20Speaker 01

  You have the oldest stone pyramids in the Americas, pyramids that predate the pyramids of Giza by thousand years.

• 1:10:28Joe Rogan?

  What do they look like?

• 1:10:29Speaker 01

  If you look up, uh, Caral, uh, they are, dude, I've done a whole thesis on this, like, I plan to write a, I don't think I'll ever get it peer reviewed, but I plan to write a paper about my theories on some of the stuff I've found. So Caral was this area on the coast, it's C-A-R-A-L, and these pyramids had, Graham Hancock's been looking into this stuff too, um, this sunken circular plaza, so they're just, this is a...

• 1:11:01Joe Rogan?

  These predates Giza, well, what we think is the date of Giza.

• 1:11:07Speaker 01

  The great pyramids.

• 1:11:08Joe Rogan?

  Conventional.

• 1:11:08Speaker 01

  The conventional dating, right. So, all right, let's see if I can condense this. This site has, I don't know, eight of these pyramids. They're actually all throughout the valley and four valleys around it. The earliest one in a separate valley close to this dates back to 4,000 BCE. It has the remnants of a sunken circular. The main thing to keep note of is that sunken circular plaza because it's a feature that you not only see there and that those four valleys, but you also see it 200 kilometers north of Peru.

• 1:11:43Joe Rogan?

  And what's the conventional explanation for these sunken circular plazas?

• 1:11:47Speaker 01

  Ritual, ritual spaces. Some people say collecting water. Some people say the acoustics are different. Here's the interesting thing about it. This site was discovered in the 1940s.

• 1:12:01Joe Rogan?

  Wow, look at that artwork.

• 1:12:02Speaker 01

  And nobody did anything about it. The archaea, this is what you'll, this is what happens in Peru. In the, from the 1900, early 1900s to 1940s, archaeologists and historians were going up and down the coast finding stuff. I mean, just finding stuff. And they would write it down, they'd put it on the map. That's why the Ministry of Culture has it on their archaeological database. They'd pick through it, what they could, put stuff in museums and just move on. That site, Corral, predated any ceramics. I mean, this was a pre-ceramic culture, so there was no artifacts to find. So they just, they just moved on. It wasn't until Dr.

• 1:12:44Speaker 01

  Ruth Shady in like the 80s and 90s actually put research in and figured out, hey, this is older than everything else we found. Because they just overlooked it. There were no artifacts. They were just like, we're gonna move on.

• 1:12:58Joe Rogan?

  When you say no artifacts, like that seems weird to me because like, why would you make these immense structures and not have a bowl to put rice in? Right?

• 1:13:07Speaker 01

  They, a lot of animal skins and, and the weaving.

• 1:13:14Speaker 01

  So these cultures, what they found is, so that's a little further inland, they had a sister site on the coast. And so what they would do, the only agriculture they would grow was cotton. That cotton, they would trade with the people on the coast so they could make nets and fish with it. The fish they would bring back, they would give back to those people who made the cotton for them. So it was this weird, you know, interplay. The other unique thing about this time period is there was no evidence of warfare for a thousand years. Nobody was fighting each other. It was very just everybody, no weapons, no anything like that.

• 1:13:53Joe Rogan?

  No weapons?

• 1:13:53Speaker 01

  No weapons, for a thousand years.

• 1:13:56Joe Rogan?

  That seems insane. Is that just no evidence of weapons?

• 1:13:59Speaker 01

  That's currently no evidence of weapons.

• 1:14:01Joe Rogan?

  Right, but maybe someone stole the weapons.

• 1:14:04Speaker 01

  That's, that's possible.

• 1:14:05Joe Rogan?

  Because I mean, you're talking about a place that's been looted ad nauseam, right? This episode is brought to you by Squarespace. If you're thinking about building a website, you should try Squarespace. I know because I use it. That's right, joe rogan dot com is powered by Squarespace. It has all the features that you need to create a standout website like an AI-enhanced website builder, SEO optimization tools, and seamless checkouts with mobile pay links. Head to Squarespace dot com slash rogan for a free trial. And when you are ready to launch, use the offer code ROGAN to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.

• 1:14:47Joe Rogan?

  It's football season and Uber Eats is delivering deals every game day. This week, buy a four-piece signature chicken from Popeyes and get another one free on Uber Eats. When your watch party gets hungry, order in and keep everyone's attention where it matters on the game. Order a four-piece signature chicken from Popeyes and get another one free. No matter who scores big tonight, you'll score great deals on Uber Eats all season long because it's not football without food. Popeyes offer valid through November 1st. Add eligible menu item to order prior to checkout. Taxes, fees, and terms apply. Product availability varies by region. Exclusions may apply. See app for details.

• 1:15:32Speaker 01

  That's true. I mean, they they put in a lot of work, though, excavating, especially that site Corral.

• 1:15:37Joe Rogan?

  So you feel like somewhere they would find some sort of a axe head or?

• 1:15:42Speaker 01

  They found, um, the only artifacts of major note are some of those carvings that we saw and then bone flutes with carvings on them and the nets, the fishing nets.

• 1:15:56Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 1:15:57Speaker 01

  And my whole, um, my whole theory is this was a pocket. It's called the Norte Chico culture. It's a little pocket of these four valleys and I, and I, I went all over them documenting these pyramids. They don't look like pyramids anymore. They look like mounds. They're so old. Um, but there's another place 200 kilometers north in the Chasma Valley. And what they have found is underneath the structures that are currently exposed, they found deeper layers of temples with that sunken plaza in this whole other location. And those are dating to the same time. So I firmly believe that what we, what archaeologists

• 1:16:40Speaker 01

  currently say is the oldest culture, I believe it was, it went the whole coast of Peru.

• 1:16:44Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:16:45Speaker 01

  I mean, like, this was a cradle of civilization. I mean, hands down.

• 1:16:51Joe Rogan?

  Cradle of civilization 6,000 years ago.

• 1:16:54Speaker 01

  6,000 years ago.

• 1:16:55Joe Rogan?

  So which is right around the time we think the cradle of civilization happened in Sumer.

• 1:17:01Speaker 01

  Wow. And so the hard thing about it is like you, you'll have car, you have some carvings and adobe that's been preserved in some of these places. Uh, so there's some sort of iconography, uh, but there's no writing like the Sumerian. The, the whole thing about Peru is like there was no, no writing system that we know of. There is a theory and I, and I believe this, I believe the Kipus, the, uh, Rope strings with knots.

• 1:17:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:30Speaker 01

  I believe that was a language. But the Spanish burnt as soon as soon as the Spanish came over, they burned as many of those things that as they could find and they killed the people who could read them. So we don't, we won't ever know.

• 1:17:42Joe Rogan?

  Oh, God, Spaniards. How dare you?

• 1:17:45Speaker 01

  But there's like, there's evidence that they would, they took some, some of the Incas to the Spanish court. And so there's an Inca in the Spanish court in front of the queen or king, reading off of these kippus, reading stories, telling the court and.

• 1:18:00Joe Rogan?

  From knots on strings?

• 1:18:01Speaker 01

  From knots on strings.

• 1:18:03Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. And that, understanding of that stuff is lost?

• 1:18:07Speaker 01

  There, it's, it's lost. Currently, I think for the last few years, there's been some studies being done in Harvard, trying to use AI to figure out what these mean. I mean.

• 1:18:17Joe Rogan?

  How many of these are left over?

• 1:18:18Speaker 01

  Ah.

• 1:18:20Joe Rogan?

  Can we see some images of them?

• 1:18:22Speaker 01

  I think five hundred to a thousand. I mean, that's it. I mean, the Spanish went on a mission to burn all these things.

• 1:18:29Joe Rogan?

  Because they were trying to convert them to Spanish and get them to speak the language and.

• 1:18:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:18:35Joe Rogan?

  Become Catholic.

• 1:18:37Speaker 01

  Pretty much.

• 1:18:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:38Speaker 01

  Yeah. And, and, and so much history is lost because of it.

• 1:18:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:44Speaker 01

  So it's, um, but what's interesting is that that oldest place at Corral, they found a kipu. They found one of these knotted strings.

• 1:18:54Speaker 01

  And it wasn't a fishing net. It was what looked to be a kipu. And so if you have that tradition going back six thousand years, I mean, that's.

• 1:19:04Speaker 01

  There, there's a lot of.

• 1:19:06Speaker 03

  This picture's from nineteen ninety-four. This is what it looked like then? Doesn't look like anything.

• 1:19:11Speaker 01

  See, you see that on the right? The, those pits?

• 1:19:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:19:14Speaker 01

  That's looting pits.

• 1:19:16Joe Rogan?

  And now, wow.

• 1:19:17Speaker 03

  That's what it looks like from above here. And I was looking at a map.

• 1:19:21Joe Rogan?

  Oh, so they had to dig it up?

• 1:19:23Speaker 03

  This is the map from above.

• 1:19:24Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:19:28Speaker 03

  It's a pretty big area.

• 1:19:30Joe Rogan?

  Why is ancient history so damn fascinating?

• 1:19:33Speaker 01

  If you go on my spreadsheet, there's a place called, uh, Era de, what is it? Looking at my notes here.

• 1:19:41Speaker 01

  Sunken Plaza, Ero de Pando. It's a link to my YouTube. So this, what we're about to see is right across the valley from Corral. So all throughout that valley are these sites from that Norte Chico culture. And I'm like right there on top of this pyramid and just the drone footage is epic, man.

• 1:20:01Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:20:02Speaker 01

  So I went on, I went on a mission looking for these places. That's it.

• 1:20:09Joe Rogan?

  The thing about this that is so compelling, but also so unsatisfying is that a lot of these stories, you're never gonna get the full answer.

• 1:20:21Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:20:21Joe Rogan?

  You're never gonna get the full history. It's just the mystery will never be satisfied. You're always gonna be hungry, you know? Which is, is that for a person like yourself that studies these places and has dedicated so much time to it, is that in any way frustrating or does it add to the appeal?

• 1:20:40Speaker 01

  Both.

• 1:20:44Joe Rogan?

  Well, I got a 6,000 year old site.

• 1:20:46Speaker 03

  Quick question, there's no one there with you at all, it looks like?

• 1:20:49Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:20:49Speaker 03

  Not, so no one can stop you from?

• 1:20:52Speaker 01

  No, I, uh...

• 1:20:53Speaker 03

  Digging.

• 1:20:55Joe Rogan?

  Whoa, look at that.

• 1:20:56Speaker 01

  No, I mean, if you got caught...

• 1:20:58Joe Rogan?

  With a drone?

• 1:20:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, this is just me. I, I actually spoke to, there was an archaeologist who told me to go to that place. And so I went and I just, I was the only one there.

• 1:21:11Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:21:13Speaker 01

  So this, my whole thing was I identified most of these places through Google Earth first. Like they're, they're not labeled. These places aren't labeled at all.

• 1:21:23Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy. So these aren't documented places?

• 1:21:27Speaker 01

  No, this, this is.

• 1:21:28Joe Rogan?

  This one place right here is?

• 1:21:29Speaker 01

  It's not on Google Earth, though. It's not on Google Maps. You won't see any marker of it. But I was able to do some digging because of the guy who took me through the site. I meet this random guy, Luis. Luis is amazing. He's a farmer right, right here. I freaked him out. He thought I was coming to rob him because he gets robbed often, apparently.

• 1:21:50Joe Rogan?

  Oh, boy.

• 1:21:51Speaker 01

  But he walked me through the site and he, this one, okay, if you pause it, that right there on the bottom right is another one of those temples with the sunken plaza, except that one has monoliths.

• 1:22:06Joe Rogan?

  Oh, looks like Stonehenge.

• 1:22:07Speaker 01

  Exactly. And nobody's done a study on astro, I don't, I don't know that stuff.

• 1:22:13Joe Rogan?

  Alignment, right.

• 1:22:13Speaker 01

  But I can almost guarantee that, that there is some sort of astronomical alignment. So what happened was archaeologists did come back, did come here in the 90s, I think, and it didn't look like corral. They weren't going to be able to restore it. So they just kept it as a, you know, to find dating on, on these things. And it, it's from the same culture. It's just a couple valleys over.

• 1:22:39Joe Rogan?

  Hmm. Do you have any footage of the monoliths?

• 1:22:43Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It'll come up if you fast forward through it.

• 1:22:49Speaker 01

  Uh, it's going to be back, back closer to where, yeah.

• 1:22:56Speaker 01

  We walk up to it. There you go.

• 1:22:58Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 1:23:02Joe Rogan?

  Interesting. So some sort of a stone circle of monoliths.

• 1:23:06Speaker 01

  I put it through AI.

• 1:23:07Joe Rogan?

  They're fairly small monoliths, though, right?

• 1:23:09Speaker 01

  Uh, I mean, some of them are, have been buried and removed.

• 1:23:13Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 1:23:15Joe Rogan?

  So someone's got them in their fucking house somewhere.

• 1:23:18Speaker 01

  Some of them, yeah.

• 1:23:19Joe Rogan?

  Ugh. How much of that is a problem with archaeology? I, I know that that was a giant issue with Egyptian artifacts. That a lot of like wealthy people in other countries would just get it imported to their, their den and have a, a big fancy party.

• 1:23:36Speaker 01

  It, it still happens. Um, I will have to say that the, and, and I mean, I've seen it with my own eyes, looting. I've, I've never come across a, like, somebody in the field doing, doing that though.

• 1:23:47Joe Rogan?

  That would be fucking terrifying, right?

• 1:23:48Speaker 01

  Would be freaky, yeah.

• 1:23:50Joe Rogan?

  Because they'll kill you.

• 1:23:51Speaker 01

  Dude, you're out in the middle of nowhere.

• 1:23:53Joe Rogan?

  And if they get caught, they're in deep shit, so they would want to get rid of you.

• 1:23:56Speaker 01

  And, I mean, would I?

• 1:24:01Speaker 01

  I know for a fact, the way some of these get out of the country is, some of these wakeros have people on the inside who write them certificates and things like that, that say it's an authentic piece that has been owned by the family for this long, so they can get it out of the country to whoever they're selling it to. That's how it works. What's a bigger problem, though, recently, after talking to several archaeologists and witnessing it myself, is agriculture. Agriculture. They actually went to, I went to a couple sites that, I found this by mistake, looking on Google Earth. So I would find a site and I would like roll the satellite date back, because sometimes different seasons give

• 1:24:43Speaker 01

  you better imagery. I'm like, holy hell. What exists now is a quarter of what existed 10 years ago. And now, all you see is like plantations planted. I mean, they have literally paved over the archaeological site to plant, dude. And that is, it's become one of the bigger missions of the channel and eventuality, because, dude, you don't know, this site could have aligned with that site, could have aligned with, you have no idea, and there's no documentation of it. There's no documentation, because nobody's going out there. These places are far away, you know? But here's another peculiar thing. This last expedition,

• 1:25:24Speaker 01

  so I found one of these sites, and I'm on camera, and I'm ready to go in, like, guns ablaze, and like, how dare you do this? How dare you erase this? And I get there, and, I mean, it's crumbled stones, crumbled walls, and it's just this woman on her farm. And so I start talking to her. This wasn't corporate. This woman has, in fact, did, in fact, write to the Ministry of Culture to say, hey, I'm expanding my farm. They didn't get back to her, so she did it. She, you know, paved over or created plots on half the archaeological site. So it becomes a...

• 1:26:09Speaker 01

  I don't know, I don't know what the right solution is, cuz I feel for this woman. She's actually, she's not, this isn't corporate.

• 1:26:15Joe Rogan?

  She's just surviving.

• 1:26:16Speaker 01

  She's just surviving. The corporate stuff pisses me off and I'll go hard on them. And I do in some of my videos. But she, and she tried to do the right thing by reaching out to the Ministry of Culture. But what's she supposed to do? Wait 10 years to get a response?

• 1:26:30Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:26:30Speaker 01

  You know, and so...

• 1:26:33Speaker 01

  And then I don't know how you empower these people. Cuz from where I sit is at least if you could document it, then you'd have a record of it. You know, that's what I'm trying to do when I go out there. Create 3D models and put it, put pins on a map or something like that. You know, so... It's a tricky situation to try to figure out.

• 1:26:54Joe Rogan?

  What's the most compelling site in Peru for you?

• 1:26:58Speaker 01

  I wanted to show you this. If you, if you look in my video footage, Purulén Pyramids. P-U-R-U-L-E-N. This site, I think it is much more deserving of future study. It's a site that has 16 platform pyramids.

• 1:27:16Joe Rogan?

  Wow. And what does this site date to?

• 1:27:21Speaker 01

  So when I do, this, half my, half my role here is like, I'll go out and find these places. And then on the back end, when I make these videos, I go hard on the research. Like, I spend too much...

• 1:27:33Joe Rogan?

  Sorry, which video was that?

• 1:27:35Speaker 01

  Pyramids Purulén.

• 1:27:41Speaker 01

  That's just so you can have a sense of scale.

• 1:27:46Joe Rogan?

  Thank God for drones, huh?

• 1:27:48Speaker 01

  100%.

• 1:27:50Joe Rogan?

  Okay, so, that's a platform.

• 1:27:55Joe Rogan?

  So that is the remains?

• 1:27:58Speaker 01

  That's, dude, and it, so right back, if you look back on the horizon, that's the coast. So this is right on the ocean, which means this has been inundated for millennia by tsunamis and...

• 1:28:11Joe Rogan?

  It looks like it.

• 1:28:12Speaker 01

  It really does, right?

• 1:28:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it looks like it's completely washed over. Look at how the sand is formed.

• 1:28:18Speaker 01

  And it's so, I kept that in there, that's the wind. The wind is so, I like, I messed up my first drone flying it here.

• 1:28:27Speaker 01

  But take this, I keep this in so you could just, there's another one.

• 1:28:31Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:28:33Speaker 01

  Oh, it gets better, man.

• 1:28:35Speaker 03

  That seems like a riverbed.

• 1:28:37Speaker 01

  Another, that's the-

• 1:28:38Joe Rogan?

  It completely seems like water's washed right over this whole area.

• 1:28:44Joe Rogan?

  I bet if you look at it from far above, it's even more evident, right?

• 1:28:47Speaker 03

  The area was.

• 1:28:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Look at that.

• 1:28:51Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:28:52Speaker 01

  And they're all the same, have, they all have the same shape.

• 1:28:59Joe Rogan?

  And what's the conventional explanation for this place?

• 1:29:02Speaker 01

  There was one study done on this, and it was a brief survey in 1970. And, um, this guy-

• 1:29:08Joe Rogan?

  That's it?

• 1:29:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, that's it.

• 1:29:11Speaker 01

  However, the archaeologists who did that survey, there's another one there. Um, the archaeologists who did this survey has been quoted in the past 30 years saying he always wanted to come back here and do more research. He just never did. It's not an easy place to get to.

• 1:29:27Speaker 01

  But, what they dated it at is, even in that report, that 1970s survey, he's saying 1800 BCE, but likely, oh, look at that.

• 1:29:38Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:29:43Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:29:45Speaker 01

  Here's something unique. If you pause it real quick. Alright, so I looked on Google Earth, and those, toward the top center, you see those two block-looking things? Alright, so, I was like, the, I thought they were megalithic. Um, they're not. All of these, all of these pyramids are carved out of the bedrock.

• 1:30:03Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:30:04Speaker 01

  Are carved out of the bedrock. And the only place that there were looting pits are behind those two stones at the top. In that little alcove of the mountains, that was the only place. So I went there, and there's bones there, so that's where people were buried. And I'm like, why are they burying people here? And I stand right in the middle, and it's facing 89-degree, almost perfect east-west. That little gap. So like, that, that's where they were burying their elite people.

• 1:30:33Joe Rogan?

  So where the sun would rise in the summer solstice?

• 1:30:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:30:38Joe Rogan?

  Now, how old is this site supposed to be?

• 1:30:40Speaker 01

  So, they said, in that report, he says 1800, they found one piece of pottery that's docu- They found one, and so-

• 1:30:48Joe Rogan?

  This is from the 1970s study?

• 1:30:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, um, and, so, they're saying 1800 BCE, that's right around when pottery started, um, and, but, in that report, he says it's likely older, as well. He thinks it's older, it needs more study. But that was it. That was the only thing that was put out there. I mean, this is, there's 16 pyramids here, and if you look in my drone footage, you'll see, it looks like there's another thing here, another thing there.

• 1:31:16Joe Rogan?

  So, it's in the neighborhood of 4,000 years old, but possibly older?

• 1:31:21Speaker 01

  Correct. And I think it is, I would stake everything on it being found to be much older. Pre-ceramic, pre-pottery, um-

• 1:31:31Joe Rogan?

  The pre-ceramic thing is nuts, alright, so, like, here's the thing. What are they using for utensils? What are they using for plates? Like, what are they using to put their food on? And then, if it is pre-ceramic, what kind of tools do they have? And how are they carving?

• 1:31:47Speaker 01

  How are they building these-

• 1:31:48Joe Rogan?

  This out of the bedrock? I mean, imagine the amount of effort it would take for a human being banging a rock against another rock to try to do that, and then to make it flat? Are these things level? Have they-

• 1:32:02Speaker 01

  They're, I mean, this is the only modern, most of my footage is the only modern media-

• 1:32:10Joe Rogan?

  What?

• 1:32:11Speaker 01

  In existence, of some of these sites.

• 1:32:13Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy! It's just you?

• 1:32:15Speaker 01

  Of that site-

• 1:32:16Joe Rogan?

  Imagine if you didn't exist? Imagine if you weren't exposed to that, as a 10-year-old?

• 1:32:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, that's-

• 1:32:25Joe Rogan?

  This is just gonna sit there for like, another thousand years, for somebody else figures it out?

• 1:32:28Speaker 01

  Yep. Or it gets paved over.

• 1:32:31Joe Rogan?

  God!

• 1:32:33Speaker 01

  That's why I'm doing it, man.

• 1:32:34Joe Rogan?

  God, it's so weird!

• 1:32:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:32:36Joe Rogan?

  But how weird is that? How weird is it's just you? Raoul, what kind of fucking, what kind of weight on your shoulders is there? That this one fascinating site, you're the only guy that's got video of this? Modern video? That's crazy!

• 1:32:54Speaker 01

  Thanks for having me on.

• 1:32:58Joe Rogan?

  You're getting kinda choked up about it.

• 1:32:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, man. I mean, it's, um...

• 1:33:03Speaker 01

  It's a lot of work, you know, and it's just, it's something in me that I've...

• 1:33:08Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's, it's obviously very compelling to everyone that really pays attention to. Is this the...

• 1:33:14Speaker 01

  That's when you look on the, the satellite.

• 1:33:16Joe Rogan?

  Oh, and again, this is the thing. This is not like they put some rocks in place. They carved these things out of the bedrock and they're fucking huge.

• 1:33:28Joe Rogan?

  That's what's so crazy about it.

• 1:33:31Speaker 01

  I just, I had to, I mean, getting there was...

• 1:33:34Joe Rogan?

  Like, what are we looking at, man? Like, that's the thing. Like, what are we looking at? And why in Peru? And why, what happened to this area where they had so much, so much sophisticated, complex construction that was absolutely abandoned and there's almost nothing left?

• 1:33:55Speaker 01

  So, they, over the course of history, what they've found is that especially, because people like to build on the coast and there's just up and down the coast of Peru. There's so much.

• 1:34:06Joe Rogan?

  Sure.

• 1:34:07Speaker 01

  But then a ma- a major massive El Nino would happen and that just floods everything. And so people are like, oh, we gotta, we gotta go up into the mountains. So they start going further into the valleys. Because Peru's so unique. You have the coast and then the Andes just start, you know, they just start going up until you get to, you know, the, uh...

• 1:34:32Speaker 01

  Uh, before you start getting into the Amazon, you gotta cross the whole Andes. And, um... So for several hundred years, they would live further up the valley and then they would come back and repopulate on the coast and build on top of the sites that used to be there. And then it would happen again and they would go back. And so there's this whole cycle of, and there's some places where you, you will find that direct, um...

• 1:34:58Speaker 01

  It's very hard to find megalithic stuff, though, like the stuff you're finding in Cusco, for example, on the coast. You don't really find that, um, you don't really find that type of architecture on the coast. Uh, you didn't have that building material. You didn't have stones like that.

• 1:35:12Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:35:14Speaker 01

  And so it's my belief that some of these places existed further back than we think. Like this place here on the coast, the erosion and the wind and the water that must have affected it, I can only, I have footage from, what we just saw was drone footage from this year. I didn't get much drone footage the year before. I could already see how much has been covered in one year, in one year, from, from having gone there again. And, and it's just, imagine over millions of years, or thousands of years. It's crazy.

• 1:35:51Joe Rogan?

  If you had to just take a wild guess with no one holding you to this at all, how old do you think we're talking about here? This episode is brought to you by Quince. Putting together a good wardrobe isn't actually that hard. You just need the right pieces and that's where Quince comes in. Quince is all about creating quality, versatile clothing with premium materials, like 100% Mongolian cashmere sweaters from just $60, and organic cotton tees that are soft and breathable. Personally, I got a bunch of their stuff and I love it. I really love the fleece pullover hoodie and the flowknit Breeze Performance Tees. They're, they have really simple, smooth designs, perfect for recording sessions or my workouts. I, I

• 1:36:34Joe Rogan?

  like wearing them on stage. It's just great quality clothing and it's cool how Quince still gives you luxury quality, but without the insane markup. Find your new fall favorites at Quince. Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers or go to quince.com/rogan. Get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash Rogan.

• 1:37:07Joe Rogan?

  This episode is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. Believe it or not, the holiday season is here again, and that means you might need to fill some seasonal roles, fast. Maybe you need extra cashiers or stalkers, or maybe something more unique, like a lead elf, or an expert gift wrapper, or a Zamboni driver. Whoever you're looking for, whatever skills you need to power through the rest of the year, ZipRecruiter is one of the best places to start your search. Because you can try it for free at ziprecruiter.com/rogan. And because ZipRecruiter helps sort through thousands of resumes and applications, showing you the most qualified and interesting ones first.

• 1:37:49Joe Rogan?

  There's even an option for candidates to explain why they want the job. Let ZipRecruiter find the right people for your roles, seasonal or otherwise. Try it for free today at ziprecruiter.com/rogan. That's ziprecruiter.com/rogan. Meet your match on ZipRecruiter.

• 1:38:11Speaker 01

  I think there's, I go back pre-Cataclysm, the Young Adriaus. There's evidence on, like, Waka Prieta, that there was this mound that was carved out of the bedrock that Tom Billigh and his team excavated, and that academically accepted dates back to 12,500 BCE. And so, there were people living on the coast at that time.

• 1:38:37Joe Rogan?

  So this mound, what does that look like?

• 1:38:40Speaker 01

  There's a, it looks just like a, this is an interesting site. That's it.

• 1:38:47Joe Rogan?

  What am I looking at here?

• 1:38:50Speaker 01

  That mound.

• 1:38:51Joe Rogan?

  That's not a natural mound?

• 1:38:53Speaker 01

  No, it started off as natural, and so what they found was...

• 1:38:59Speaker 01

  They would use their refuse and so they would put trash on top of the mound and then cap it with like adobe mud so it would become strong, it would become a platform. And then they would build on top of it.

• 1:39:12Joe Rogan?

  So it's a trash mound?

• 1:39:14Speaker 01

  Uh, part of it.

• 1:39:15Joe Rogan?

  How weird.

• 1:39:17Speaker 01

  That, that wasn't an uncommon thing.

• 1:39:19Joe Rogan?

  And that's more than 11, 15,000 years old. And what is that, they have writing from there?

• 1:39:26Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:39:26Joe Rogan?

  What's that cloth?

• 1:39:27Speaker 01

  That's, uh.

• 1:39:28Joe Rogan?

  It's hard to see with that image.

• 1:39:29Speaker 01

  Fishing nets.

• 1:39:30Joe Rogan?

  Oh, I see.

• 1:39:31Speaker 01

  It's one of the oldest, uh, pieces of cotton. So you ask how they were carrying things and all that with the cotton, but the cotton was coming from further inland. It wasn't coming from them. So even back then, they were, um.

• 1:39:48Speaker 01

  So here's the kicker. And this is part of like the paper, um, thinking I'm writing, uh. There's evidence at that place, Wakaprieta, of a sunken circular plasm. And that predates all the ones we saw by even, by 2,000 more years. I think this is where that tradition started.

• 1:40:09Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:40:09Speaker 01

  I think that's where it started far earlier than anybody accepts or knows.

• 1:40:14Joe Rogan?

  Now, here's the weird one, like, how did those people get there?

• 1:40:18Speaker 01

  Dude, I, you know, I've thought about this, I mean, look, if you.

• 1:40:22Joe Rogan?

  Right, if you're, if you're, if you're, if you're building these structures 6,000 years ago, 11,000 years ago, 15,000 years ago, when'd you get there?

• 1:40:30Speaker 01

  When'd you get there? And, and there's, yeah, there's the, the plasm. So, I mean, I, I don't think it's, it takes much, I think if you're living on the coast or, I don't know, you, by any sort of water and you see a piece of wood floating on it, like, huh, alright, well, then a thousand years go by and you have, at that point, put some pieces of wood together to make a flotation device, you're able to navigate. Like, I just, I don't see it not happening.

• 1:40:57Joe Rogan?

  Eventually.

• 1:40:58Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:40:59Joe Rogan?

  Especially with crazy people.

• 1:41:01Speaker 01

  It's, I mean.

• 1:41:02Joe Rogan?

  Someone's got the courage to just sail out there and hope you have enough water on you.

• 1:41:07Speaker 01

  Or you're, or you're fishing and, and.

• 1:41:09Joe Rogan?

  You get stuck.

• 1:41:10Speaker 01

  You get stuck and there's a storm and it's like, whoop.

• 1:41:12Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:41:12Speaker 01

  And you could never make it back, you know? But I, I think that's happened. In multiple places. I don't, I don't think that civilization is born and created without A, that sense of exploration, but also that, that natural ingenuity. I mean, storms happen and you see a, a log floating in the ocean.

• 1:41:32Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:41:33Speaker 01

  Well, I can use that to go get, catch more fish.

• 1:41:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:36Speaker 01

  All of a sudden, you're seafaring.

• 1:41:38Joe Rogan?

  Pooey.

• 1:41:39Speaker 01

  So.

• 1:41:41Joe Rogan?

  It just, when you see stuff like this, that's that old, that's 15,000 years old, you go, okay, well, this is all that's left from 15,000 years ago. What's left from 30,000 years ago? Cause it's like double that, right? Right now, you look at 15, there's almost nothing. It's like, God, it's so little and, but you get it. But if you went another 15 before that, are we talking, what is that?

• 1:42:04Speaker 01

  And, and that's why I'm like, with, with the stuff Beyonde, Beyonde is doing with the, um, SAR tech, I'm just hoping that that can be affordable and applied in multiple areas to, to find things that are buried underground. One, one thing that I, I've always been curious about why there hasn't been more research until I looked into it. All these places were on the coast of Peru. Well, sea levels were lower at one point. And so what's right off the coast of Peru?

• 1:42:35Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:42:36Speaker 01

  You know? And there haven't been many, if any, studies on that. I'm like, why? Apparently, the Humboldt Current makes it very difficult to, this is, this is what I read, cause I was like, why hasn't anybody studied this? Uh, apparently, the Humboldt Current makes it very difficult to do research out there where it becomes very expensive for the equipment you need and things like that. But I guarantee that you'll be, you'll find some stuff off the coast.

• 1:43:03Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it just makes sense.

• 1:43:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:43:05Joe Rogan?

  Especially if you find that. I mean, especially we know that sea levels were far lower. Especially if that really is 15,000 years ago. We definitely know that sea levels were lower then.

• 1:43:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, it wasn't like this. It, it's crazy too, man. Cause like Tom Dilly, how you got? I mean, he got so much shit from the academic community for his research down in Monteverdi and this site.

• 1:43:31Joe Rogan?

  Which is interesting how consistent it is. It's still going on today, same way.

• 1:43:34Speaker 01

  And...

• 1:43:35Joe Rogan?

  And they're always wrong.

• 1:43:36Speaker 01

  Right? It's like, you would think, you might want to have an op- just leave some room and...

• 1:43:42Joe Rogan?

  The young archaeologists are. I think there's a lot of young archaeologists that have grown up with the internet and they're really paying attention to this stuff and they're realizing. And also, when you're young and you grow up with the internet, you realize, like, gatekeepers of information are a real problem. And they always have been. And they're wrong about so many things. I mean, they're wrong about virtually everything. The official narrative of almost everything has holes in it.

• 1:44:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm like, something you said earlier too. Like, this age of study and exploration and radiocarbon, it's not that old.

• 1:44:16Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:44:17Speaker 01

  It's, we've only been doing this type of research for a hundred years with some of the new advancements. Like, you don't think something else is gonna come along that might knock that out?

• 1:44:26Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:44:27Speaker 01

  You don't want to leave room for that?

• 1:44:29Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:44:30Speaker 01

  It's kind of dickish.

• 1:44:32Joe Rogan?

  It's very dickish, but, you know, no need to focus on the dicks. But that's why things like Filippo Biondi's work is so devastating to the narrative. Because this new technology, and if it shows that it's accurate, and it is accurate on things that we know exist, that's where it gets really crazy. Especially when they looked 1.2 kilometers through a mountain to find the particle collider underneath and got the exact dimensions and a map of this particle collider.

• 1:45:01Speaker 01

  It's wild.

• 1:45:02Joe Rogan?

  Right? So they know that it's accurate. And then, so what are those pillars? What are these 20-meter in diameter? What are these things?

• 1:45:12Speaker 01

  And why would you not want to divest all the money you can possibly do to figure that out?

• 1:45:18Joe Rogan?

  I think it'll happen. And I think one of the reasons why it's gonna happen is because of the internet, is because the, just the pressure and the amount of interest. And also, think about Egypt, right? Egypt, a large portion of their economy is wrapped around the tourism.

• 1:45:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:45:38Joe Rogan?

  Because the tourism in Egypt is phenomenal. Because it's one of the most incredible sites in the world. Wouldn't you want it to be even more incredible? Like, what's more incredible than some unknown mystery of...

• 1:45:50Joe Rogan?

  Spectacular proportion. Something that goes a kilometer deep under the pyramids? And they don't know what it is? Like, this is nuts. Also, these, those shafts that go down that are filled with debris now that they can clear out? And it leads to what at least this data shows? Tunnels and caverns and all this shit that's underneath there? Like, what is that?

• 1:46:12Speaker 01

  That's, I, I mean, and, and I think Ben has done phenomenal work putting all that together.

• 1:46:17Joe Rogan?

  Oh, he's incredible. I love that guy.

• 1:46:19Speaker 01

  The, the history and the story and the, and the accounts of being in these labyrinths and, and...

• 1:46:24Joe Rogan?

  And he's another guy that got into this because of the internet. You know, I mean, he had a real career in tech. And he was like, okay, I'm gonna throw this out to be a YouTuber.

• 1:46:33Speaker 01

  All right, I, I was, uh, who was I? I forget who I was speaking to, but I mean, I...

• 1:46:40Speaker 01

  My goal is to document as much as possible before it's not there to document and, and I, I... I mean, it's crazy to be on here and to, my, my channel is, I still feel like it's in its, in its infancy.

• 1:46:52Joe Rogan?

  Well, I only found out about it a while, I mean, I want to say four months ago? Five months ago? Something like that? You know, I started seeing some of your stuff online, I think on X? And I started looking at it on YouTube and I was like, yo!

• 1:47:08Joe Rogan?

  This guy's going deep! How did you fund all this stuff? I mean, how do you have the money to go and do these things?

• 1:47:14Speaker 01

  I went broke the first expedition. This was a total Field of Dreams. If you build it, I'll see what happens.

• 1:47:26Speaker 01

  And fortunately, I mean, uh... People saw the work I had been doing up until that point. There, there were some GoFundMe donations, which was ama... The, the fact that, I mean, just thank anybody out there, just thank you, like... The, the people who believe in what I'm doing, like, that's what fills me up the most too. Like, uh, the encouragement and the support from, from, from people I don't know. You know, and, and-

• 1:47:52Joe Rogan?

  Well, the content you provide, though, is so fascinating. And it's so, it's so interesting to people like myself and other people that are really interested in it. It's just a matter of getting you exposure. So the content is so amazing. It's just a matter of, people have to find out about it. And then, I mean, Youtube's a great, what, the, the algorithm on Youtube is so good. Because it'll recommend, "I'll watch one of your videos," and it'll recommend something else interesting. You know, and then it just keeps going on and on and on.

• 1:48:18Speaker 01

  Well, and, uh, so I came back from that first expedition. I was there, the first expedition was twenty-three days. I had two terabytes of footage. And it's funny, that footage lasted me a year and a half until this expedition now. And I was out on this last expedition for forty-two days, all over the country. And, I mean, the, the video you were talking about when we first started talking,

• 1:48:43Speaker 01

  that, that is too, the only, there's no drone footage of that site, ever. There is one Facebook post with pictures, and that's it. And I was like, "I have to document this," you know? Uh, and so much from the last expedition is, is like that. It's the only, the only media that, that you'll see of it, and-

• 1:49:05Joe Rogan?

  The fact that this, these pyramids carved into the bedrock, that you're the only one that has media of that, is just absolutely insane. What are we looking at here?

• 1:49:14Speaker 03

  I'm just digging around the area.

• 1:49:16Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:49:17Speaker 03

  This is a mummy, Lady Cow, they found in two thousand and six. They call her, that she might have been the first female ruler of the area, the Cleopatra of South America. These are pictures of her tattoos.

• 1:49:32Joe Rogan?

  Oh, whoa.

• 1:49:33Speaker 01

  So actually, what's interesting is, um, it is, it is being, there's a lot of evidence to say that some of these early, early cultures were matriarchal. Because they're, they're finding a lot of the tombs of, um, these queens. Right there on, right there on the coast.

• 1:49:52Joe Rogan?

  The sorcerer.

• 1:49:53Speaker 03

  Yes, that, this one pyramid in this area called El Brujo, where the Huacaprieta is.

• 1:49:59Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:49:59Speaker 03

  They found this dope totem.

• 1:50:01Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 1:50:02Speaker 01

  And so what's in, and so I believe this was, um, the, the, I think, Moche, um, El Brujo, there are.

• 1:50:13Speaker 03

  These paintings are on the wall.

• 1:50:14Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:50:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, I have, I have a video on YouTube.

• 1:50:17Joe Rogan?

  That's cool too, because you see paint. So you realize that these things were very colorful.

• 1:50:21Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:50:22Speaker 03

  Naked prisoners, and that this is a recreation of what it would have looked like then?

• 1:50:26Joe Rogan?

  Those are prisoners?

• 1:50:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:50:28Speaker 03

  So, the actual thing I thought was cool here too.

• 1:50:30Joe Rogan?

  Why are they painting their prisoners? That's weird.

• 1:50:33Speaker 01

  I mean, everything was painted, though.

• 1:50:35Speaker 03

  This was where people.

• 1:50:36Joe Rogan?

  I mean, why are they making depictions of their prisoners? You know what I mean? Not that they painted it different colors, which is kinda cool, but it's interesting. Like, how old is this supposed to be?

• 1:50:47Speaker 03

  Uh, anywhere from three thou-, this was a very interesting part. Three thousand B.C. is what they say it goes back to, but they say it wasn't developed until, uh, modern day, like, two hundred to six hundred A.D., which is, it's thirty-six hundred years of nothing.

• 1:51:00Speaker 01

  So it was, I believe it was the Moche culture.

• 1:51:02Speaker 03

  Nineteen ninety, this one was found, and a Peruvian banker is the guy. It says it's philanthropic, philanthropically minded, I can't say it.

• 1:51:11Joe Rogan?

  Right, and the Huacheros are the ones who told him about it.

• 1:51:15Speaker 01

  And so that's,

• 1:51:18Speaker 01

  a lot of these places have been found because of, um,

• 1:51:23Speaker 01

  Huacheros being reported. All of a sudden, there's an influx in a little village of silver, or something like that. And then, somebody tells the authorities, they figure out where they're going to dig. I mean, there's a, there's a good book on it, The Lord of Sipan, um, where archaeologists literally had to, like, stand guard. The townspeople weren't happy that when the archaeologists got involved, and the townspeople were coming to get the gold, and coming to get the silver. And so there's a whole book about it. I don't know why nobody's made a movie on it.

• 1:51:56Joe Rogan?

  Well, that makes sense, though, right? Cause it's life-changing. If they can find hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of gold and silver in the ground, fuck these archaeologists.

• 1:52:07Speaker 01

  Well, and, uh, some of the earliest, a lot of this stuff you'll see in the museums, like the Largo Herrera Museum, and, uh...

• 1:52:17Speaker 01

  A lot of this stuff, a lot of the pottery is preserved because you had these big plantation owners, these big, you know, technocrats and their workers in the field would constantly be finding this artwork in these, these, these wacas and, and so they were like, you know what? I'll give you $2 every time you bring me, bring me one. And now we have the Largo Herrera Museum, you know, full of this stuff. So anyway, and there's, I was talking to Dr. Ed Barnhart about this. There's also, there's also so much in Peru that the, the people finding these things, they aren't, maybe nowadays they're making a lot on stuff, but for the past couple of decades,

• 1:52:58Speaker 01

  there's just, there was just so much, you're getting $3 for, if you're a Peruvian worker in the field, moving this thing up the ladder, you're getting $3 for a little piece of pottery.

• 1:53:15Joe Rogan?

  How long have you been doing this for?

• 1:53:17Speaker 01

  I mean, what I've been with the channel, two years.

• 1:53:20Joe Rogan?

  That's it?

• 1:53:21Speaker 01

  Two years, yeah.

• 1:53:22Joe Rogan?

  And what were you doing before that?

• 1:53:24Speaker 01

  Video editor.

• 1:53:25Joe Rogan?

  And so you just said, you know what? I'm gonna just take a leap of faith?

• 1:53:29Speaker 01

  My contract, my, I had a contract position and it ended.

• 1:53:35Speaker 01

  I was posting these things I was finding on Google Earth and I was saying like, I think this is something, this is why, I came up with this whole methodology. And people were like, you're full of shit. And I was like, you know what? Let's see. And I went and 100% accuracy. Every, every single place I saw on Google Earth that did not have a label was an archaeological site. Every single one I went to. And that first expedition.

• 1:54:01Joe Rogan?

  How many of them are there?

• 1:54:02Speaker 01

  I went to 90 in 23 days. Yeah.

• 1:54:05Joe Rogan?

  Nine.

• 1:54:06Speaker 01

  That was the first expedition. I was there for 42 days this time.

• 1:54:10Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:54:10Speaker 01

  So like, I've got five terabytes worth of video footage of things nobody's seen.

• 1:54:16Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy. But just, I mean, imagine again, what if you didn't do this? That's what's nuts. That's what's nuts. Like, we would be completely ignorant about this stuff.

• 1:54:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:54:31Joe Rogan?

  It just makes you wonder, like, what was, like, like those stone pyramids carved into the bedrock, the only you have footage of it? What was that culture? What were they doing?

• 1:54:40Speaker 01

  And, and all I have to go off of is what this, what made me happy is like, and I have it on, on the video phone, talking to the camera, like, I think this, I think that, I think this carved. And that survey verified every little thing that I, which was like, pretty cool, because I'm, I'm not, you know, academically trained to, you know, analyze these things, but I have the, I have the experience. And so it was kind of neat that every bullet point was verified by that survey. The feeling I got going to that place, in that place in particular, I don't think they're gonna find pottery there. I don't think they're gonna, I think it was pre-ceramic, but I also think

• 1:55:20Speaker 01

  there weren't houses. There weren't, there, there might be, you know, if you go digging or do, do some lidar.

• 1:55:28Speaker 01

  I think it was a place of pilgrimage. That's just my personal, I have nothing to back that up. That's what I felt, though, kind of.

• 1:55:36Joe Rogan?

  Pilgrimage?

• 1:55:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're kind of into, like, when I was walking there, um,

• 1:55:42Speaker 01

  I don't know, man, Peru is weird. Peru, the, the energy in Peru is different, and, and so.

• 1:55:52Speaker 01

  I, I, I want to say spiritual, because I don't have a different word for it, and it's just,

• 1:56:01Speaker 01

  you're just in tune with, with something. I mean, maybe it's just the nature, maybe, but, I mean, I, I feel, I feel different down there, and especially going in these far out places, and when you get to some of these sites, like, you, you, you feel a little different.

• 1:56:15Speaker 01

  And, and so just the, kind of the intuitive impression I got was, I wonder if people were coming here as some sort of pilgrimage, because they're, I mean, there aren't houses there, there's no evidence of people living there, so I.

• 1:56:27Joe Rogan?

  But is that because of time?

• 1:56:29Speaker 01

  That's very, it's very possible.

• 1:56:30Joe Rogan?

  That's the problem. When you're seeing something that's, the amount of work that would take to carve something out of bedrock, like, those pyramids, and how many of those pyramids did you find?

• 1:56:41Speaker 01

  There were like sixteen of them.

• 1:56:42Joe Rogan?

  Sixteen?

• 1:56:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:56:43Joe Rogan?

  Okay, they're huge.

• 1:56:44Speaker 01

  Huge.

• 1:56:45Joe Rogan?

  They're carved out of the ground, out of rock, with what?

• 1:56:50Speaker 01

  Dude, here's the interesting thing. In that survey, I didn't know this and I tried to pinpoint the location. That main pyramid I was on, there's a black and white photo from 1970, where they found a carved out room in that pyramid, in that main pyramid, there's a, and it looks like a room, it's been human carved out. So there's chambers in some of these things. Why aren't we studying it?

• 1:57:16Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:57:17Speaker 01

  Why haven't we gone back in?

• 1:57:19Joe Rogan?

  Also, how? Like, what?

• 1:57:22Speaker 01

  What are you using to?

• 1:57:23Joe Rogan?

  Right. Like, what kind of tools do you have?

• 1:57:26Speaker 01

  And?

• 1:57:26Joe Rogan?

  6,000 years? Like, what, what, what tools were available?

• 1:57:32Speaker 01

  And it's so close to the ocean, you might not ever know because a tsunami comes in, it's taken it right back out.

• 1:57:37Joe Rogan?

  Right, right. And if it's metal, it's gone anyway.

• 1:57:40Speaker 01

  It's gone. Same with, same with, I think also, like, I think that little alcove where all the burials were, I think that got preserved because it was behind this mountain.

• 1:57:51Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 1:57:52Speaker 01

  I think if there was any civilization there prior that might have been living there, all the bones that were there on, they're gone. They got taken back out.

• 1:58:02Joe Rogan?

  Of course, yeah. And probably all the structures, any houses, if they had wooden houses or?

• 1:58:08Speaker 01

  On top of the land?

• 1:58:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, gone. Nothing left.

• 1:58:10Speaker 01

  And so all you're left is with this strong, who knows if those things were bigger too, you know?

• 1:58:15Joe Rogan?

  Right, right. And who knows what was on top of those things, right?

• 1:58:19Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:58:20Joe Rogan?

  That's nuts, man.

• 1:58:21Speaker 01

  The thing that gave it away on that side in particular is, when you look aereally, every single one of those pyramid structures is facing northeast, every single one. And that's for the sunrise on the Solstice.

• 1:58:33Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:58:34Speaker 01

  And, and I was like, this, this is manmade. This is manmade. And, and there's still people on the comments who are like, that's, oh, that's just a mountain. And I'm like, dude, what more do you want?

• 1:58:45Joe Rogan?

  Wait, wait, they think that those things were just?

• 1:58:47Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:58:48Joe Rogan?

  They don't think those things are manmade?

• 1:58:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:58:50Joe Rogan?

  They're the same shape?

• 1:58:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know.

• 1:58:52Joe Rogan?

  The same shape, the same size, they're all pointing in the same direction? Shut the fuck up.

• 1:58:56Speaker 01

  I've learned not to fight and just, you know, you're gonna believe what you want anyway. You know what I mean?

• 1:59:02Joe Rogan?

  It's the history, I mean Graham Hancock has the greatest phrase that we are a species with amnesia. And I think it's true. And I think it all points back to not just the Younger Dryas impact, but probably several other impacts. You know, my friend John Reeves, he lives in Alaska and he runs the boneyard.

• 1:59:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:59:24Joe Rogan?

  John just sent me some photos of a new site that they have that's under all these other sites, like deep under all these other sites, where they're finding not just bone, but charred bone, like an entire area of like burnt tusks, burnt bones, covered, and he thinks there was another impact.

• 1:59:48Speaker 01

  An impact.

• 1:59:49Joe Rogan?

  And, you know, just, I mean, he's just making a rough estimation, because the, some of the sites that he found, it's somewhere around 10,000 years ago, due to like, you know, doing the examination of the cores and he thinks it's 20,000 years ago. So he thinks this is probably a normal thing that has happened all throughout the history of the earth, is the earth gets pelted, you know, every 10,000, every 20,000, whatever. You know, we just get hit.

• 2:00:17Speaker 01

  And that speaks to the myths and the legends and the Dryas and the Yugas and, I mean, every civilization has its version of, you know, this is the fifth epoch or the fourth epoch, you know, this is, the first one was fire, the last one was, you know, water, there's always several cataclysms.

• 2:00:38Joe Rogan?

  The Yuga stuff is nuts too, because it just seems like it's so accurate. And we're in Kali Yuga right now, which is the age of deception. And like, what's more confusing, that's what it's called, right? Isn't it called the age of deception? Find out what. So what's more like if you thought that it was all falling apart before it gets rebuilt? It's like that's now like this place is fucking crazy.

• 2:01:02Speaker 01

  It's wild.

• 2:01:03Joe Rogan?

  Every day the news is nuts. I I've gone on a social media hiatus over the last few days and I feel so good and I I decided two days ago, I'm not going back. I'm like, I'm not going back. I'll go back to post things. I'm never reading it anymore. I'll find my news. You know, people send me enough stuff as it is. My friends send me things. I don't have to click on them, but I know what's going on, like what craziness is happening. You just feel better when you don't do it and.

• 2:01:30Speaker 01

  I've been sucked into the the Nazca mummies thing sucked me into the back and forth on on X and and.

• 2:01:38Joe Rogan?

  It's toxic.

• 2:01:38Speaker 01

  It's so toxic, man.

• 2:01:40Joe Rogan?

  So toxic.

• 2:01:40Speaker 01

  So toxic and and it's like at the end of the day, people are going.

• 2:01:46Speaker 01

  Look, you can have all the evidence saying this one thing and everybody agrees you're gonna have this group that is like, well, no, for this reason. And then and it's the same thing on the other side, too. And so it's just this, this, um.

• 2:02:00Speaker 01

  I social media is this, we what I'm what I'm seeing is it's just this weird loop of confirmation bias and.

• 2:02:07Joe Rogan?

  And bitchiness and anger and arguments and infighting and attacks. And I just think that it's altering the collective psychological foundation of our society.

• 2:02:20Speaker 01

  I agree with you.

• 2:02:21Joe Rogan?

  And that's what's weird and that's what makes sense when you see like crazy protests and crazy people online. It's like everyone's getting, there's something that's happening to them. Well, what's this one thing that exists with everybody? It's social media use.

• 2:02:37Speaker 01

  Yep, and.

• 2:02:41Speaker 01

  And I and I think I don't know like I I've it's it's it's hard. I tried to stay away and then I found myself like last week after I made like these videos just just for the social media sphere as an example. Like I was getting pulled into it. I felt myself as somebody who has not engaged that much. I was like, something has shifted, you know, and like I was ready to get defensive and and and and take things personally. And I'm like, this is.

• 2:03:10Joe Rogan?

  And attack back.

• 2:03:11Speaker 01

  And attack back. And I was like, this is just continuing the cycle and I don't want that. I don't want that in my life. I don't need any of that. So I just stopped, you know, and and but. The level of defensiveness, the level of attacks, the level of, and it's not even, at some points, it's not even just taking things personally. The attacks are personal sometimes. So it's like, what are you supposed to do, other than not engage?

• 2:03:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you can't engage. I say post and ghost. That's my strategy.

• 2:03:38Speaker 01

  I like it.

• 2:03:39Joe Rogan?

  That's my strategy. And then even then, I'm telling people to stay off of it, so they're not even gonna read my stuff. Like, they're listening to me, but that's okay. It's okay. It's like, you find out enough. You find out about the important things, and find out about shows that you enjoy, and then you subscribe. And then when new episodes come out, you're like, ooh.

• 2:03:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:03:57Joe Rogan?

  And so that's what I've been doing, and it's a much healthier way. Like, the one thing that doesn't, and Jelly Roll was telling me this, like, he got off also. He had no phone for like 18 months. No phone at all.

• 2:04:09Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 2:04:09Joe Rogan?

  It was crazy, yeah. Like, I'd contact him through his guy that was running his social media.

• 2:04:15Speaker 01

  Sounds like a healthy choice.

• 2:04:17Joe Rogan?

  Tell Jelly I love him, tell him I said what's up. And then, recently, he got a phone, like, over the last few months, and only uses YouTube. He's like, my YouTube, he goes, I learn things, I get interested in things, and that's how I feel, too. Like, I really enjoy YouTube. There's so much interesting content on YouTube, about everything. I mean, it's just like...

• 2:04:39Speaker 01

  We're living in, I mean, this is an incredible age where, I mean, I feel fortunate for what I'm doing, that there's an audience for it, you know? And there's a platform that can allow that to have some reach, because some stuff deserves to reach.

• 2:04:55Joe Rogan?

  Well, what you're doing is very important. It's very important. Just the fact that you are the first guy to get media of those structures, that's crazy, man. I mean, it's really kinda crazy. You're a video editor, two years ago, you decided to do this. You're the first guy who's documenting these things, and then we're showing millions of people right now? Kinda nuts, like, how few people know that there was some kind of a complex society that understood the equinoxes, pointing their structure toward it, and not just building them with mud and bricks, but carving it out of the bedrock in a similar shape, over and over and over again.

• 2:05:37Joe Rogan?

  And that's just what you found. Like, imagine how much hasn't been found.

• 2:05:42Speaker 01

  Dude, you just look at the aerial stuff and... I mean, Joe, I can't, this just, that's just the tip of the iceberg, man.

• 2:05:49Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:05:49Speaker 01

  Like of the, of the content that, I mean, I'm going to places in the middle of the desert and seeing an adobe wall peek out at this one little section and then I put the drone in the air and you can see the outline of this whole structure, just a little bump in the sand.

• 2:06:07Joe Rogan?

  And no one even knows it's there.

• 2:06:08Speaker 01

  No one even knows it's there.

• 2:06:09Joe Rogan?

  What happened to all those people? That's what's nuts.

• 2:06:12Speaker 01

  Dude, that's the, that's the, like, when I say cradle of civilization, I mean, this was, I don't, whatever's bigger than a cradle.

• 2:06:22Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's what makes sense, right? Because if you think about the Ice Age and if all this stuff is pre-Ice Age or during the Ice Age, that area is not covered in ice and it's one of the few areas around the equator that's not fucked up. And it's one of the few areas where people can thrive. So it really makes sense that that would be the area where civilization would not just thrive, but reach very high levels of sophistication where they're able to carve into the bedrock these massive pyramid structures.

• 2:06:49Speaker 01

  There is interesting evidence that, um, I forgot, I was watching, it was on like Discovery or Nagio or something, but there's evidence in, in like the Okakahai Desert. I mean, they're finding another dark trafficking, uh, illegal trafficking web is like the, the sale of fossils, cause they're finding whales in the Okakahai Desert and...

• 2:07:11Speaker 03

  Brings me to, I was waiting to find a good point for this. They found that they were using whale vertebrae as stools. So they found this giant...

• 2:07:20Joe Rogan?

  Dude, I want those for my bar.

• 2:07:21Speaker 01

  Dude, that's awesome. I did not know that.

• 2:07:23Speaker 03

  In 2023, they found what could be dubbed the most heaviest, or the heaviest animal ever.

• 2:07:30Speaker 01

  I've been in, whoa. Yeah, I've been in touch with that guy's nephew.

• 2:07:32Speaker 03

  Colossal blue whale found outside of Peru.

• 2:07:36Joe Rogan?

  Each vertebrae weighs 220 pounds.

• 2:07:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, the whole thing with, the ones they found, 200 tons.

• 2:07:45Speaker 03

  And so like as you were just saying, if they're not buried under tons of ice, then these people could in theory have found, you know, lots of these giant.

• 2:07:53Joe Rogan?

  Holy shit.

• 2:07:54Speaker 01

  In the desert, yeah.

• 2:07:55Speaker 03

  Something else I'm stumbling across and I didn't get into it. Blue whale poop is apparently got some, something interesting to it.

• 2:08:01Joe Rogan?

  What's the deal with blue whale poop? Jamie, how do you go on these deep dives in the middle of a podcast? Jamie, you're a fucking wizard dude.

• 2:08:09Speaker 03

  You just start seeing stuff like the.

• 2:08:11Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 2:08:12Speaker 03

  Eating a poop.

• 2:08:12Joe Rogan?

  Look at that.

• 2:08:13Speaker 01

  Neon green?

• 2:08:16Speaker 03

  I'm just imagining these giant 200 ton.

• 2:08:19Joe Rogan?

  Poops.

• 2:08:19Speaker 03

  Poops. And then what you could, I don't know, it's red?

• 2:08:22Joe Rogan?

  Ew, god, what are these people doing with poop?

• 2:08:25Speaker 03

  They also think that they could have been eating in a different way. They're just sweeping up shrimp and shit from the bottom of the ocean.

• 2:08:32Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:08:32Speaker 03

  I'm just like picturing what this looked like, you know, in the year zero, where there's a bunch of giant whale bones all over the coast. And who knows what other octopus or whatever the fuck else.

• 2:08:42Speaker 01

  And what happens to that poop when it fossilizes, you know? But no, they're finding that, they're, I mean, there is a dark web of trafficking for looking for stuff in the Okuhai, Okuhai Desert where there, where all these prehistoric animal bones are. They've found dinosaurs and stuff there too.

• 2:08:59Joe Rogan?

  And again, is it just wealthy people that want it for their homes? Is that what it is?

• 2:09:04Speaker 01

  Uh, the stuff I've seen, it's, I mean, really that guy and a few other people just kind of going out there illegally, looking for stuff.

• 2:09:12Joe Rogan?

  But it has to be valuable for them to be willing to do this, right? So who's buying it?

• 2:09:17Speaker 01

  Wealthy oligarchs, I don't know.

• 2:09:19Joe Rogan?

  Where are these fucking people? I never met one of them that has some stuff like that. I want to go over someone's house, like, hey, you want to see some shit?

• 2:09:25Speaker 01

  They've got a whole museum right there, like.

• 2:09:29Joe Rogan?

  That's probably how you wind up on a list.

• 2:09:31Speaker 01

  But I mean, it's, uh,

• 2:09:34Speaker 01

  there's still, there's still so much out there. And I mean, if I.

• 2:09:39Speaker 01

  Just like some of the structures I was talking about, like you literally see a whole adobe wall, you see a whole temple complex, you see the remnants of a circular plaza. I mean, there's another, if you go to the undocumented temple on the spreadsheet, this is undocumented, no Ministry of Culture sign, it's not on the Ministry of Culture's database of archaeological sites.

• 2:10:04Joe Rogan?

  How'd you find it?

• 2:10:05Speaker 01

  Using Google Earth.

• 2:10:07Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:10:08Speaker 01

  And so here's the thing, alright, so circling back, we had that Norte Chico culture with the sunken plazas way down here. We have this...

• 2:10:16Speaker 03

  I was paused, go ahead.

• 2:10:18Speaker 01

  So that, well, that's what I saw on Google Earth.

• 2:10:21Joe Rogan?

  No, go ahead, continue what you just said.

• 2:10:23Speaker 01

  So you have the Corral Supe culture down here, and then you have, they found that sunken plaza underneath archaeological sites in Casma, way up here. So you have these two different, and they're saying they were separate cultures. I think they were the same.

• 2:10:39Joe Rogan?

  How far apart are they?

• 2:10:41Speaker 01

  200 kilometers or miles, I forget. So what I was like, I was like, well, is there a connection between these two? So I looked in the valleys in between, and I found this with a sunken, a temple with a sunken circular plaza. So you just have them?

• 2:10:57Joe Rogan?

  You just found it, found it on Google Earth.

• 2:10:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, and then, and then I went and I needed help from one of the guys in the field to point, and that, this, a lot of the people in these pueblos, like they'll know, every now and then you'll get lucky and someone knows the history, every now and then. More often than not, it's, yeah, there's some ruins right over there. And that's it, that's the extent, that's the extent of their knowledge. And so that, that was one of these occasions where the guy was like, if you just go this way and that way, and I, because I was looking for it, I was, I had it pinned on my map, but I was getting lost. So I go and I find this place, and lo and behold, it's a sunken circular plaza, temple structure. I go up on top, there's pottery there, you can see where the, where the huacaros have

• 2:11:40Speaker 01

  dug things out, there's walls, and it's just unexcavated, nobody's surveyed it, there's no documentation of it, it's just there.

• 2:11:48Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:11:52Joe Rogan?

  Can I see that? This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. If you've thought about trying therapy with our long-term partner, BetterHelp, insurance options may now be available nationwide with an average copay for eligible members of just $23 per session. And with World Mental Health Day on the 10th, now's the perfect time to give it a try. In fact, don't even wait until the 10th because all that stress you feel, it's not waiting around. So instead of letting it build up, sign up for a therapy session and unload at any time, not just on World Mental Health Day. If you've been waiting to start therapy, BetterHelp works with more than 125 health plan networks

• 2:12:33Joe Rogan?

  and eligible members have an average copay of just $23 per session with insurance. Don't have insurance or live outside of the United States? You can still get 10% off your first month. Visit betterhelp.com to explore your payment options. That's better, H E L P, dot com. This episode is brought to you by The Farmer's Dog. Here's a fun fact. Research shows that dogs who maintain a healthy weight can live up to two and a half years longer on average than dogs who are overweight. Isn't that wild and also kind of obvious at the same time? So why is feeding vague scoops of ultra-processed kibble still the status quo for most dog owners? Healthy alternatives exist and trust me, I know.

• 2:13:18Joe Rogan?

  I buy one, The Farmer's Dog. I use it for both my dogs. They love it. They eat it up quick. It smells good to them. It smells good to me. It's human-grade food. The Farmer's Dog makes fresh food for dogs and my dogs love it. Their recipes are made with real meat and fresh vegetables that are gently cooked to retain vital nutrients. They also portion out the meals to your dog's nutritional needs, which helps avoid overfeeding and makes weight management easier. And isn't getting more time with our four-legged best friends something every dog owner wants? The answer to that is yes, obviously. So try The Farmer's Dog today and get 50% off your first box of fresh, healthy food.

• 2:14:02Joe Rogan?

  Plus, get free shipping. Just go to thefarmersdog.com/rogan. This offer is for new customers only.

• 2:14:11Speaker 01

  So that's what I saw, um.

• 2:14:13Joe Rogan?

  This is what you saw on Google Earth?

• 2:14:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:14:15Joe Rogan?

  Okay, and so you're just looking in between these two areas?

• 2:14:19Speaker 01

  Oh, and it's also facing north, northeast too. That also told me, um, that it was probably something.

• 2:14:27Joe Rogan?

  Okay, and then you see this, this you find on Google Earth?

• 2:14:29Speaker 01

  That's right next to it.

• 2:14:31Joe Rogan?

  And then you went?

• 2:14:32Speaker 01

  And then I went.

• 2:14:33Joe Rogan?

  What, you rented a car? How the fuck are you doing this?

• 2:14:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:14:37Joe Rogan?

  What happens if you bring these cars back? They're like, "Where'd you go?"

• 2:14:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:14:42Speaker 01

  I have some pictures of driving out in the desert bed, like.

• 2:14:48Joe Rogan?

  Okay, so this guy's helping you? Is this the guy, a local?

• 2:14:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, he was just working in the field there.

• 2:14:53Joe Rogan?

  Okay, so these are the fields.

• 2:14:56Joe Rogan?

  And he tells you where this stuff is, so all the locals know where this stuff is?

• 2:15:00Speaker 01

  And then, pretty soon I start walking up to it.

• 2:15:05Joe Rogan?

  And this is completely undocumented?

• 2:15:07Speaker 01

  And it's, you can see the plaza there. Um, it's all rubble, so something happened. Some, some earthquake, or... So I'm walking up to the top of it. And then, uh...

• 2:15:19Joe Rogan?

  So right now it just looks like rubble. It doesn't even look like it was a building.

• 2:15:23Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:15:24Joe Rogan?

  From the ground, at least.

• 2:15:25Speaker 01

  Exa- and, and half, so many places, I'm like standing right in the middle of the, right in the middle of a site, I don't even know, until I put the drone in the air.

• 2:15:35Speaker 01

  I think it's coming up here. You'll see a, uh...

• 2:15:39Speaker 01

  Let's see.

• 2:15:44Speaker 01

  Should, should come up here shortly. I find, there you go.

• 2:15:47Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 2:15:48Speaker 01

  So...

• 2:15:49Joe Rogan?

  Clearly.

• 2:15:50Speaker 01

  Underneath all of that is rooms.

• 2:15:53Joe Rogan?

  Right. So you see the bricks?

• 2:15:57Speaker 01

  Piece of pottery, some of the walk arrows can't, took out. But that was, that was evidence to me that, that, so underneath this whole thing are walls and chambers.

• 2:16:08Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:16:08Speaker 01

  And rooms.

• 2:16:10Joe Rogan?

  And you just found this on Google Earth?

• 2:16:12Speaker 01

  And it's the same style as that Corral Supé culture. The early one from, you know, 3,000 to 4,000 years ago.

• 2:16:22Joe Rogan?

  It's just so hard to believe that this is unexplored. And not just that undocumented, and that you just find it on Google. Thank God for, shout out to Google Earth. You know, Google Earth deserves some props.

• 2:16:36Speaker 01

  I mean, seriously, yeah.

• 2:16:38Joe Rogan?

  Crazy. I mean, who would have ever thought?

• 2:16:41Speaker 01

  People asked if I used like advanced satellite stuff and I've only used Google Earth so far.

• 2:16:46Joe Rogan?

  And look at this. Clearly, some sort of a civilization was there that just got obliterated.

• 2:16:54Speaker 01

  So this was weird. I don't know, like, it was just a cactus in the middle of it all. It was very strange. I don't, I don't.

• 2:17:02Joe Rogan?

  Cactuses are tough.

• 2:17:03Speaker 01

  I still don't know what to make of that.

• 2:17:04Joe Rogan?

  They can grow anywhere. That's what's weird about it. But it is weird. There's only one.

• 2:17:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, in the middle of it.

• 2:17:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:17:11Speaker 01

  But so there's pottery there and... I was wondering if it was the San, there was one more cactus like directly aligned with it.

• 2:17:19Joe Rogan?

  Are there San Pedro cactus down there?

• 2:17:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:17:21Joe Rogan?

  So, these people were probably doing something. Something with the old psychedelic cactus.

• 2:17:30Speaker 01

  I've got a place to show you.

• 2:17:31Joe Rogan?

  Cause San Pedro cactus is where you get mescaline, right?

• 2:17:34Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:17:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Makes sense that if they have these temples and they have, if there's a pilgrimage, there's probably some sort of a psychedelic ritual involved. Look at this, man. What does it feel like to just find something that no one even knew existed like this? It's gotta be a trip.

• 2:17:57Speaker 01

  Um, like, thank God I was right. They spent 14 hours getting to this place. Like, thank God there was something. But there have been times too where I'll get there and it's, the satellite, Google Earth hasn't updated itself and there's a plantation planted over some of it, you know, and it's like...

• 2:18:20Joe Rogan?

  Do you ask the people, like, what used to be here?

• 2:18:22Speaker 01

  Um, if there's people around. I mean, sometimes.

• 2:18:28Speaker 01

  Like I said, it's, it's, you can tell, you can kinda tell when it's corporate. The infrastructure in the area is different, but, but that's the other thing, there's, there's nobody monitoring this. I, and I was like, what's the solution? Do you pay somebody to call the Ministry of Culture when somebody's coming in with bulldozers, leveling things?

• 2:18:47Joe Rogan?

  And what would they even do? Probably the people with the bulldozer just pay them off.

• 2:18:51Speaker 01

  Either pay them off, or... Dude, at, at that corral site, Ruth Shady, the archaeo... She was shot by land traffickers. The archaeologist responsible for discovery... Land traffickers were trying to take over the site, and she was shot.

• 2:19:05Joe Rogan?

  She was killed?

• 2:19:06Speaker 01

  She wasn't killed, she was shot. Uh, and, I mean, she's, as recent as a few years ago, is like, we're, we're still not getting protections from them. They sent us one security guard to patrol the perimeter. These land traffickers, man, like, and, and it's for agriculture. It's for agriculture, it's not for looting. Looting is a happy byproduct for them. It's for the agriculture.

• 2:19:29Joe Rogan?

  Hmm. Squatters issued death threats to archaeologists discovered oldest city in Americas.

• 2:19:34Speaker 01

  The oldest city in the Americas, and you're getting one rent-a-cop?

• 2:19:39Joe Rogan?

  Wow. They called the site's lawyers and said that if he continued to protect me, they would kill him along with me and bury us five meters below the ground. And she's 73. They killed our dog as a warning. Oh, God.

• 2:19:56Speaker 01

  They actually, when, I think it was, there was, cause, cause when they excavate, they do it in seasons and stuff, and there was one season where like, land traffickers had started building on part of the site and, and in, in the off-season from digging, so they had to deal with all of that. I mean, it's, it's crazy, it's like the Wild West, man.

• 2:20:14Joe Rogan?

  Wow. Um, any other sites to show us that are...

• 2:20:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, they, uh... I mean, dude, there's...

• 2:20:20Joe Rogan?

  I know, we could go on forever, but...

• 2:20:22Speaker 01

  Uh, if you look at, uh, Chavín, uh, C-H-A, it's on the, uh, just on the media hard drive. So we're talking about underground structures and hallucinogens and stuff like that. This place, Chavín.

• 2:20:38Speaker 01

  Now, this is a known archaeological site.

• 2:20:41Joe Rogan?

  And how old is this place?

• 2:20:42Speaker 01

  Uh, I think 2008, right around 0.

• 2:20:46Joe Rogan?

  Look how far down it goes. How deep does it go? This is nuts.

• 2:20:50Speaker 01

  Right? And this is just one part of it.

• 2:20:56Joe Rogan?

  Whoa. And this is 2,000 years old, at least?

• 2:20:59Speaker 01

  At least. So, they wouldn't, they won't let you film in the other section. It kinda looks like this.

• 2:21:08Joe Rogan?

  Why won't they let you film there?

• 2:21:10Speaker 01

  Cause there's something called the Lanzon Monolith. And if you look that up, Jamie, uh, L-A-N-Z-O-N Monolith.

• 2:21:20Speaker 01

  So... That's it.

• 2:21:25Speaker 01

  So they won't let you film in there because too many people go in there and take pictures and the flash supposedly... So they just, yeah.

• 2:21:33Joe Rogan?

  The flash?

• 2:21:34Speaker 01

  Dude, but when I went in there, the security guard was right behind me the whole time. He, he, he knew I was gonna try to take a picture.

• 2:21:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but you can take a picture with no flash now, especially with like the new iPhones and Samsung phones. You can take some really high-resolution photos.

• 2:21:48Speaker 01

  The guard said, "Not enough people know how to turn it off on their phone."

• 2:21:52Joe Rogan?

  Oh, boy.

• 2:21:53Speaker 01

  So, but when you walk in-

• 2:21:55Joe Rogan?

  The flash is fucking it up? That seems crazy. That seems like voodoo. Doesn't it? Doesn't it? Does that mean-

• 2:22:01Speaker 03

  It could do it to paint and stuff, but-

• 2:22:03Joe Rogan?

  Come on, there's no paint on that fucking thing.

• 2:22:05Speaker 01

  And, and it's behind a piece of plexiglass, too.

• 2:22:08Joe Rogan?

  That sounds like they're just control freaks. Like, fuck off, dude.

• 2:22:11Speaker 03

  Make a reason, for sure, just to tell people.

• 2:22:13Speaker 01

  But, so, so the whole thing about this place, you saw how deep we went underground? It's in a comparable place with these hallways and, and Joe, I, like, completely stone-cold sober.

• 2:22:25Joe Rogan?

  That's what it looks like?

• 2:22:25Speaker 01

  As soon as I walked in, underground, something hits ya. So, it, it's... The air is different, so, I, dude, I don't, I don't know how to describe it. It's-

• 2:22:37Joe Rogan?

  And how'd you feel?

• 2:22:41Speaker 01

  Lighter and a little messed up in the head, man.

• 2:22:45Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 2:22:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:22:46Joe Rogan?

  Do you think it's a lack of oxygen?

• 2:22:48Speaker 01

  It's possible.

• 2:22:50Joe Rogan?

  Cause it seems like you're deep, deep, deep underground, probably limited oxygen because you get these caverns and could be. got a hole to the top.

• 2:22:58Speaker 01

  I mean, I honestly, I, I wonder if it's built on some sort of, I don't like the, like the

• 2:23:03Joe Rogan?

  Sacred energy.

• 2:23:04Speaker 01

  Greek sacred energy or Delphi with the gases or something like that. I don't know.

• 2:23:09Joe Rogan?

  Getting gassed in there?

• 2:23:10Speaker 01

  Yeah. All I know is that when you, when you go in.

• 2:23:14Joe Rogan?

  Show me that, that totem again, that monolith.

• 2:23:17Speaker 01

  What they found is, um, they found evidence of rituals happening there, like plates with, uh, with hallucinogenic plants or substances. So people were going down there to do these rituals and do this space. I mean, if you're gonna go on a trip, that's the place to do it.

• 2:23:35Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:23:35Speaker 01

  Like that's, it's, it's just, you're, you're in a closed space. The acoustics are so weird. It's, it's trippy, man.

• 2:23:44Joe Rogan?

  What is that, uh, image on that thing? Is it Jaguar?

• 2:23:48Speaker 01

  There's, there's a whole bunch of imagery here. That's like the fanged. So for a while they thought, they thought this culture, the Chavín culture was responsible for the, the onset of religion in Peru. The Chavín, they called it the mother culture for decades. And you see this fanged deity, Dr. Barnhart talks about it a lot, this Jaguar looking deity. Um, they thought it came from there. But there's actually places that I went to where you see it on the coast for, uh, older. So it actually kind of flips that whole, it's not the mother culture. Um, but their influence and their reach was extreme throughout the, throughout the Andean world. So

• 2:24:32Speaker 01

  they were responsible for, that's when like religion took and iconography got a major influx right after Chavín culture. There, they had it before, but not like this. Um, so that's what's, that's what's on that statue. Yeah.

• 2:24:47Joe Rogan?

  And it's just so ridiculous. They won't let you take a picture because of the flash. That's so good. Somebody should talk to them and go, hey, man, shut the fuck up. That flash doesn't do anything. Devotees would be led into the maze of pitch black tunnels, eventually coming face to face with the sculpture. The worshipper's disorientation, in addition to the hallucinogenic effects of the San Pedro cactus they were given before entering, only heightened the visual and psychological impact of the sculpture.

• 2:25:18Speaker 01

  I mean, that's.

• 2:25:20Joe Rogan?

  God, people are weird.

• 2:25:21Speaker 03

  They must have had it lit up with fire or some fucking sweet.

• 2:25:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:25:25Speaker 01

  Dude, it was, it. Just going in there stone cold sober and feeling affected, I can only imagine what it was like being on San Pedro.

• 2:25:33Joe Rogan?

  Is that the weirdest place that you've been to in Peru?

• 2:25:36Speaker 01

  Um.

• 2:25:38Joe Rogan?

  Socks of Juan Man seems to me to be the most bizarre because just the size of the stones.

• 2:25:44Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. I mean.

• 2:25:46Joe Rogan?

  Like, how? How?

• 2:25:51Joe Rogan?

  I mean, how?

• 2:25:52Speaker 01

  I don't know, man.

• 2:25:53Joe Rogan?

  What are you guys doing? How'd you do this? How'd you figure out to make them interlocking in a way that if there's a seismic impact, they stay put? How?

• 2:26:02Speaker 01

  And, and how?

• 2:26:03Joe Rogan?

  How'd you get them there?

• 2:26:04Speaker 01

  How do they look like marshmallows? I mean.

• 2:26:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:26:06Speaker 01

  I like.

• 2:26:06Joe Rogan?

  Why are they like, looks like they're melted?

• 2:26:08Speaker 01

  I've gone on some deep dives. It's funny on that.

• 2:26:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, look at that. Fuck, man. The big ones on the bottom, like, how? And it's the style of them too, which is so different where, as you said, it looks like marshmallows. Like, they're melted into place almost. Like, look at that one big one in the center. What the hell is that? How big is that?

• 2:26:31Speaker 01

  I, I forget, but they go up to 200 tons, I think.

• 2:26:34Joe Rogan?

  That's gotta be bigger than 200 tons. Don't you think?

• 2:26:37Speaker 01

  Probably, I, I don't know.

• 2:26:38Joe Rogan?

  Look how small those people are, and those people in the foreground. Get those people right up next to that thing? They'd be tiny. Well, maybe it is 200. I don't know. But either way, fucking nuts. That one up there, yeah.

• 2:26:50Speaker 01

  You know, how rounded these things are.

• 2:26:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:26:52Speaker 01

  And you can't get a piece of paper. The only way they've been dislodged is because of earthquakes. I mean. Like, it's.

• 2:26:59Joe Rogan?

  Bro, look at the size of that. And look at the way they interlock.

• 2:27:03Speaker 01

  You can tell when you get up close, there's, there is this reddish residue. Oh, uh, uh. There's so much, man. You can see there's often reddish residue like-

• 2:27:19Joe Rogan?

  So they were painted at one point in time?

• 2:27:21Speaker 01

  No, I think it was-

• 2:27:23Joe Rogan?

  Clay?

• 2:27:24Speaker 01

  In the Spain- The indigenous people will tell you that, and actually Percy Fawcett wrote about it in his journals too, like this bird that would take a leaf, a red leaf, and peck it into the rock and after a little bit of time it would create a hole in the rock, like it would help kind of melt the stone. Actually, the guy from the video that unregistered megalithic site told me the same story.

• 2:27:49Joe Rogan?

  Okay, I know what you're talking about.

• 2:27:50Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:27:50Joe Rogan?

  There's a specific type of plant that has like an acid to it.

• 2:27:54Speaker 01

  An acid, and

• 2:27:58Speaker 01

  I've started to, I like Dr. Barnhart's theory, and there's also a paper on it, a peer-reviewed paper by Helmet Tribut where he talks about, if you mix pyrite from the offshoot of one of these Incan mines with this plantish material, you can create like an acid that will slightly deform the stone.

• 2:28:22Joe Rogan?

  So maybe you would set the stones in place that way? Secrets of softened stone, the lost techniques of the Inca- From Facebook, so you know it's true.

• 2:28:30Speaker 01

  No, no, no, but George Lyra was, I did a whole, some of my early videos, men are like research papers. Like, I went on a deep dive with all this. And the Spanish chroniclers talk about seeing gold in between some of the stones. But this guy also, Helmet Tribut, who wrote the paper, says, "What if it wasn't gold? What if it was pyrite fusing the stones, helping to fuse the stones together with this paste?"

• 2:28:58Joe Rogan?

  Hmm, look what it says there, it says, "The technique to carve and shape the stones remains a mystery. According to legends, the gods would have gifted the Incas two magical plants. Coke, so coca leaves, which allowed them to withstand pain and physical exhaustion, and another plant that allowed them to soften stones." Soften stones.

• 2:29:19Speaker 01

  But you see that red residue-

• 2:29:21Joe Rogan?

  That also makes sense, they did so much work, they're all coked up. Fucking-

• 2:29:26Speaker 01

  I got a funny-

• 2:29:26Joe Rogan?

  Making these dope pyramids.

• 2:29:28Speaker 01

  When I was a kid, this was-

• 2:29:29Speaker 03

  This is the picture I clicked on, but that didn't pop up while I-

• 2:29:31Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that can't be real.

• 2:29:32Speaker 01

  No, that's, I've seen that. That's an artistic creation.

• 2:29:40Speaker 01

  If you pull up, uh,

• 2:29:43Speaker 01

  let's,

• 2:29:45Speaker 01

  if, do you wanna stay on Cusco or go to one other place?

• 2:29:47Joe Rogan?

  It's up to you, dog. Whatever you wanna do.

• 2:29:49Speaker 01

  Let's, let's go to, uh, Tunnels, Cusco. Dude, this whole, this whole part of the Andes, yeah, it's, um,

• 2:30:00Speaker 01

  there's tunnels everywhere, man. Like, it's not just what they're doing.

• 2:30:06Joe Rogan?

  So you're climbing down into this tunnel. Now, is this a naturally formed?

• 2:30:11Speaker 01

  Some of it.

• 2:30:12Joe Rogan?

  Some of it? Okay.

• 2:30:15Speaker 01

  On the way out, you'll see when I, going, there's steps. Those were actual steps that were built. But these things, dude, I, you can't get to the, the end. You can't find, P, there are stories where kids get lost in these things and never found.

• 2:30:30Joe Rogan?

  Oh, fuck. So, uh, again, these look like natural caves.

• 2:30:34Speaker 01

  Right. Some of them have been carved out, though.

• 2:30:37Joe Rogan?

  So it's a combination?

• 2:30:38Speaker 01

  It's a combination.

• 2:30:39Joe Rogan?

  So probably there were some natural caves and then they started carving things out?

• 2:30:43Speaker 01

  Well, the whole thing, the whole thing about it was-

• 2:30:46Joe Rogan?

  This gets weird. So this is the steps?

• 2:30:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, coming up, uh, on, on the right.

• 2:30:53Speaker 01

  I mean, it just, it just keeps going on.

• 2:30:55Joe Rogan?

  Oh, I'm not going in there.

• 2:30:57Speaker 01

  There's the sta-, there's the steps.

• 2:30:59Joe Rogan?

  Jamie, can you imagine you and me outside the door going, uh-oh?

• 2:31:02Speaker 01

  I'll follow you. That's how my catch what guide was, man. He was just filming me.

• 2:31:07Joe Rogan?

  Fuck you, bro. I'm not going in there.

• 2:31:10Speaker 01

  I was like, I'll go in.

• 2:31:11Joe Rogan?

  There's probably demons in there. That's like that movie. What was that movie? The Descent?

• 2:31:15Speaker 01

  The Descent, dude. That was like the, dude, I loved that movie.

• 2:31:18Joe Rogan?

  That movie's great.

• 2:31:18Speaker 01

  I watched it a while ago. I was like, 2005? That's wild.

• 2:31:22Joe Rogan?

  It's an old movie, yeah. They did a Descent 2. It's not as good.

• 2:31:25Speaker 01

  Yeah. This is apparently the-

• 2:31:27Joe Rogan?

  It's not, it's not the best, but this is, Descent 1 was awesome.

• 2:31:30Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, one of the best horror flicks I've-

• 2:31:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. And there's another one, huh? Oh, fuck that hole. Did you go in there? Please tell me you've been in there.

• 2:31:39Speaker 01

  Oh, of course I did, Joe. Of course I-

• 2:31:42Joe Rogan?

  With your Pillars of the Past shirt on. Oh my god dude, I don't even think I would fit in that hole.

• 2:31:50Speaker 01

  I got a little scared because coming out wasn't, wasn't easy.

• 2:31:53Joe Rogan?

  I was just reading about this guy who died in one of those holes. A guy was a cave crawler and he got stuck trying to get out. He got in head first and then could not get out.

• 2:32:03Speaker 01

  And just was just stuck.

• 2:32:05Joe Rogan?

  Died there.

• 2:32:06Speaker 01

  Dude, like that, like that.

• 2:32:08Joe Rogan?

  Couldn't even scream because his chest was compressed.

• 2:32:11Speaker 01

  Oh god. Yeah, I mean, there's some stuff I've done, I'm not gonna do it.

• 2:32:15Joe Rogan?

  Like this, you know, and just couldn't, there's no way to get back out.

• 2:32:19Speaker 01

  That's terrifying.

• 2:32:20Joe Rogan?

  Ooh.

• 2:32:20Speaker 01

  That's terrifying.

• 2:32:21Joe Rogan?

  You know how that never happens? You don't go in there, you never dive in a cave. You never dive in a cave.

• 2:32:27Speaker 01

  I'll take that into consideration, man.

• 2:32:30Joe Rogan?

  Alright, before we wrap this up, anything else you want to show us?

• 2:32:33Speaker 01

  Uh, alright, one more site. Uh, Chisneary, the C-H-I-S. Uh, let's just do the drone footage and then inside tombs. So this place, it, I had no idea places like the, it's just me and my guide. He's, dude, the people I met on this, it's just by happenstance. He's the president of the community there, the little campesino and took 12 hours out of his day to walk me through this place.

• 2:33:06Joe Rogan?

  Hmm, that's cool. That's another build it and they will come thing, right?

• 2:33:11Speaker 01

  It really is.

• 2:33:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you just go out there and you'll find the right people. Or they kill your dog.

• 2:33:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:33:19Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 2:33:20Speaker 01

  So this, this like, I, I.

• 2:33:22Joe Rogan?

  Ooh, the paint's still on it.

• 2:33:25Speaker 01

  It's actually not paint. It's, it's mud, it's different colored mud. That's what he said. So, now we're gonna go, now, in that, in that next video, uh, we're gonna walk up to them.

• 2:33:43Joe Rogan?

  Whoa skulls.

• 2:33:46Speaker 03

  The sky people? Do you know?

• 2:33:48Speaker 01

  No, it, it, uh, the Chachapoyas, the Chachapoyas were much further north. You see that skull?

• 2:33:54Joe Rogan?

  These elongated skulls.

• 2:33:55Speaker 01

  You see that skull, right?

• 2:33:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:33:56Speaker 01

  This is in the Cusco region.

• 2:33:59Joe Rogan?

  Wow. What the fuck dude?

• 2:34:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, man.

• 2:34:03Joe Rogan?

  Why are all these dead people in that hole? Whoa. What's going on in there?

• 2:34:09Speaker 01

  These were the, where they would bury their deceased.

• 2:34:11Joe Rogan?

  They'd just chuck them in a hole?

• 2:34:13Speaker 01

  No, they, no, they were, they weren't like that. They were...

• 2:34:16Joe Rogan?

  So this is all just...

• 2:34:17Speaker 01

  This is looting. This is all looting. That road...

• 2:34:20Joe Rogan?

  Fucking skulls are everywhere. This is crazy.

• 2:34:23Speaker 01

  It's wild.

• 2:34:24Joe Rogan?

  This is like a horror movie. This is like the beginning of a horror movie before it gets dark out. Right? The guys, these archaeologists, it's probably you, you're out there. In the movie, you'd bring a girl with you.

• 2:34:35Speaker 03

  You have to leave this place before the sun goes down.

• 2:34:37Joe Rogan?

  A hundred thousand percent.

• 2:34:41Joe Rogan?

  Bro, you're gonna hear voices. You're gonna hear dead languages yelling through this.

• 2:34:46Speaker 01

  No camping in the, no camping in the valley.

• 2:34:48Joe Rogan?

  Oh, you'd have to be a gangster to fucking take a nap in there.

• 2:34:52Speaker 03

  Ghost hunters should definitely go there.

• 2:34:54Joe Rogan?

  Oh yeah, I'll get Sam and Colby to go down there. They're not, I bet they won't do it. That's real ghosts.

• 2:35:00Speaker 01

  This is all from looting.

• 2:35:02Joe Rogan?

  Wow. So they just dug these people up? Stole whatever, yeah, that's a spine. Yeah. Fuck, man. God, there's so many bones.

• 2:35:13Joe Rogan?

  That's nuts.

• 2:35:14Speaker 01

  It's crazy, man.

• 2:35:15Joe Rogan?

  That's nuts. Well, Raul, I'm happy. I'm so happy that you made that decision a couple of years ago to just follow this passion and, uh, the content that you put out is really incredible. And the fact you've been able to find these sites that are heretofore undocumented. It's, it's really amazing, man. It's, it's amazing. I'm happy you're doing it and, uh, I really enjoyed having you on. And, uh, for everybody who wants to watch, it's Pillars of the Past, it's on YouTube. Um, do you put videos up on X as well?

• 2:35:47Speaker 01

  I do. I've, I've started putting videos up on X and, um, you know, my website's gonna be up and running soon. It's gonna be a... Place if you, you know, if you find places and want to put it on a map and you know, Jamie wants to comment on it, then he can comment on the pin you put. I'm trying to build something because people send me stuff all the time.

• 2:36:05Joe Rogan?

  Right. Have some sort of a thriving community of people that are interested in the same thing.

• 2:36:09Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 2:36:09Joe Rogan?

  Well, there's a, there's an interest for this stuff now. I really credit Graham, Graham Hancock. I think because he was the real pioneer of this when people just thought he was a loon. I remember people would make fun of me for reading his book in the late 90s. They'd make fun of me. Like, what are you reading this bullshit for? Why don't you go to a real history class? Like, that's no fun.

• 2:36:29Speaker 01

  No.

• 2:36:30Joe Rogan?

  This is fun. This is fun. It's fun to think that we don't know what happened, but that something happened.

• 2:36:36Speaker 01

  And Graham puts in the work. I mean, I mean, you just look at the citation section. He's putting, he puts in the work.

• 2:36:42Joe Rogan?

  Of course. Yeah, he's an amazing human, you know, which is why they have to lie to discredit him. But, you know, when, when he put that material out and then I think the Netflix show really started, started opening up the gates to people exploring this stuff more and just being fascinated by, and then seeking out content like yours and, you know, and there's, we're really fortunate now. There's quite a few really good shows that are on YouTube that document this kind of stuff. And it's, these are real mysteries. There's real mysteries when it comes to human history. And in my, to me, it's one of the most fascinating things.

• 2:37:23Speaker 01

  I agree with you.

• 2:37:24Joe Rogan?

  I love it. So I thank you so much for doing what you do. And get out there again and let's come back and do another one of these.

• 2:37:31Speaker 01

  And I would be happy to. And just, just a few plugs.

• 2:37:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah, please.

• 2:37:37Speaker 01

  I'll be speaking at a, because of all this, which is just amazing. I still feel like everything's in its infancy. So I'm humbled by the opportunities that keep presenting themselves. But like the Quest for Ancient Civilizations Conference in Sedona, and then it's actually going to be here.

• 2:37:52Joe Rogan?

  Of course, it's in Sedona.

• 2:37:53Speaker 01

  It's going to be here in Austin, too.

• 2:37:54Joe Rogan?

  Of course, it's here, too.

• 2:37:55Speaker 01

  In, uh...

• 2:37:56Joe Rogan?

  Two kooky places.

• 2:37:58Speaker 01

  ACL Live, I think is the, yeah. So it's an amazing venue. That's going to be in October. And then I'm doing a tour with Mike Collins from Wandering Wolf in the Yucatan and with Hugh Newman. We're doing a...

• 2:38:11Joe Rogan?

  Let me ask you about that. What do you think about that sage wall? Because he's the guy that goes over the sage wall. You think it's a natural formation?

• 2:38:17Speaker 01

  I think it's more likely, more like, the way I operate is...

• 2:38:23Speaker 01

  I tend to remain skeptical. I would like multiple pieces of evidence.

• 2:38:30Joe Rogan?

  There's also similar things nearby that aren't as spectacular that are natural, right?

• 2:38:36Speaker 01

  I believe so, yes.

• 2:38:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, there's something about the geology of the area.

• 2:38:40Speaker 01

  And I found places like that in Peru as well. I mean, I'm waiting for, they've done lidar studies of that stuff. For me, just to have one, one wall, I need, I personally need more than, more than just that. And, I mean, I've found some of the stuff like that in Peru and I'm very hesitant to say this is megalithic architecture.

• 2:39:03Joe Rogan?

  There's also-

• 2:39:04Speaker 01

  Needs more study.

• 2:39:05Joe Rogan?

  For people that are interested in, just to let you know, there's a lot of AI images online and when you go to look for the sage wall, sometimes you're confronted with ones like, "Oh my god, that for sure is man-made." But then, it's not a real image. Someone's created an image or doctored the image to make it look a little bit more man-made.

• 2:39:23Speaker 01

  I will say, I mean, Mike Collins has done a ton of work on it, so if you want to, like, see the original footage, it's on his channel.

• 2:39:30Joe Rogan?

  Very, very interesting footage. I mean, I go back and forth.

• 2:39:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, that's-

• 2:39:34Joe Rogan?

  Depending on how old it is. So that's the thing. Like, if you're talking about something that's 30,000 years old, maybe that's all that's left.

• 2:39:39Speaker 01

  I forget, he was saying, they found that it goes a lot deeper than it, something like that. So it's like, for me-

• 2:39:46Joe Rogan?

  Which makes it more interesting.

• 2:39:47Speaker 01

  Which makes it more interesting and I'm like, I just, I, like, keep driving, like, let's see, keep figuring it out.

• 2:39:53Speaker 03

  There's one in Texas too that I haven't found a good answer for.

• 2:39:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:39:56Speaker 01

  Rockwell, I've heard of that, yeah.

• 2:39:57Joe Rogan?

  200 to 400,000 year old wall?

• 2:40:00Speaker 03

  I think a guy in 1925 claimed that and probably just got people to pay attention and come visit, but I don't, I don't have a good answer that I've come across on what it is, or how old it is.

• 2:40:11Joe Rogan?

  Go to that one below, to the right of your cursor?

• 2:40:14Speaker 03

  Right here?

• 2:40:15Joe Rogan?

  To the right of it? Right there, yeah. Look at that. Huh.

• 2:40:19Speaker 01

  I will say, though-

• 2:40:20Joe Rogan?

  That could be a natural formation.

• 2:40:22Speaker 01

  They, I mean, the earth, the earth does a lot of weird things.

• 2:40:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. That's not, that's not convincing to me. No, can I put it back up again now? But I'm aware of it. I'm just like, I'm looking at that extraterrestrial, shut the fuck up. Extraterrestrials do a way better job.

• 2:40:40Joe Rogan?

  They might have built the pyramids, they didn't build this. Fuck out of here, it was shitty, fucking scab labor. Yeah, got non-union guys came in, "I'll do the job for cheap."

• 2:40:52Speaker 01

  Well, they got their laser beams, like, alright.

• 2:40:55Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wait a minute, that looks real.

• 2:40:56Speaker 03

  I think that's the guy I found when they found it.

• 2:40:58Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that looks like a wall.

• 2:40:59Speaker 03

  But there's also, I've seen four versions of this picture, and one's in color.

• 2:41:03Speaker 01

  Dude, it's so hard nowadays to, like, you gotta put in some work to find the truth.

• 2:41:07Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that was, that's, that is weird. But that doesn't look real. That looks like it's just the strata, well, but it's not consistent all the way, what the fuck do I know?

• 2:41:19Speaker 03

  Again, I don't even know what we're looking at.

• 2:41:20Joe Rogan?

  Who knows?

• 2:41:22Speaker 01

  That's, that's here in Texas, right?

• 2:41:23Joe Rogan?

  Yes, yeah, maybe we'll go one day. Uh, Pillars of the Past, YouTube, awesome, thank you, really appreciate you, it was a lot of fun today, I really enjoyed it. Appreciate it, bye everybody.