5x Super Bowl Champ Charles Haley

FOLLOW THE PIVOT PODCAST: MERCH | https://pivotpodcast.com YOUTUBE | https://www.youtube.com/thepivotpodcast INSTAGRAM | https://instagram.com/thepivot TWITTER | https://twitter.com/thepivot TIKTOK | https://tiktok.com/@thepivot FACEBOOK | https://www.facebook.com/thepivotpodcast FOLLOW HAPPY DAD: https://www.instagram.com/happydad FIND HAPPY DAD: https://www.happydad.com/find 5x Super Bowl Champion- 49er Cowboy and Hall of Famer Charles Haley joins The Pivot Podcast this week in a rare sit down and look back into his life on and off the field. As a player who spent his storied career avoiding the media and cameras off the field, the NFL’s long time bad boy doesn’t come in softly and fires off from the start, letting the guys know- Franchises don’t make the players, the players make the franchises. Alluding that this generation of players is softer than it was back in his day- Haley admits he doesn't watch much football because it's different now. “I’d talk about your mom, your wife , your kids, friends whoever because I needed to know who I’m playing with and know if you are a dawg or not,” Haley says. Fascinated by his larger than life persona, the guys try to tap in to his mindset on and off the field and why he developed such a bad reputation from walking around naked, to the infamous White House stories, to fighting with teammates to someone who should have been a first ballot Hall Of Famer.” Charles talks about only having one regret in his career and the differences between playing for the 49ers and the Cowboys. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:30Channing Crowder?

  You ain't got no Hall of Fame cuticles on your toes, motherfucker. What about that?

• 0:34Speaker 02

  You know what? You keep looking at my toes, dawg, man. What you trying to tell me, dawg?

• 0:38Channing Crowder?

  I thought you had a sock on when you first came in.

• 1:07Ryan Clark?

  Well, so we're back again, man. Freddie, whoever this dude is, and Hall of Famer Charles Haley. Before we started this, though, Charles, man, like you had a lot of jokes. The rumor was that you had changed your life. You had become a better person.

• 1:22Speaker 02

  Hey, I'm the change I want to see in others.

• 1:24Ryan Clark?

  So why did you come in on fire already? Talk about you talking about chanted hair?

• 1:28Speaker 02

  Truth has set you free, and I freed y'all.

• 1:32Speaker 02

  Now you want to dig on, hey, because I freed you? Man, you got a problem?

• 1:36Ryan Clark?

  I don't really have a problem with it, you know?

• 1:38Speaker 02

  You don't?

• 1:39Ryan Clark?

  I don't, I just can't, I feel like that's a hard way to make friends. Do you have a lot of friends?

• 1:43Speaker 02

  No. But I'm OK with it, but I got a lot of dogs.

• 1:47Ryan Clark?

  Dogs are more loyal.

• 1:48Speaker 02

  I tell people all the time, I don't need no more friends. I feed them, I talk to them.

• 1:51Ryan Clark?

  They don't talk back, though.

• 1:53Fred Taylor?

  Do you put lotion on them?

• 1:54Speaker 02

  I rub them.

• 1:54Fred Taylor?

  They say you was out there kicking powder before you came in.

• 1:58Channing Crowder?

  You gonna ride. You gonna ride Haley, you gotta ride, you gotta ride.

• 2:03Speaker 02

  Hey, what I'm talking about.

• 2:04Fred Taylor?

  You from the old school.

• 2:06Speaker 02

  Hey, y'all haters.

• 2:08Fred Taylor?

  They say you like to go raw anyway.

• 2:10Speaker 02

  Hey man, you know what, I'm good. I do it all.

• 2:14Channing Crowder?

  But he old enough, they didn't have lotion when you was young.

• 2:17Speaker 02

  What?

• 2:17Channing Crowder?

  Did they have lotion?

• 2:18Speaker 02

  They had lard.

• 2:20Channing Crowder?

  You had a real lard?

• 2:20Ryan Clark?

  You put lard on you?

• 2:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, you put that lard on there. And kept you shining all day.

• 2:27Fred Taylor?

  So that's why you was so slippery out there with them pass rush moves.

• 2:32Channing Crowder?

  Charles, it's a big fan, man, I grew up, but little Emmett, wore 22 when I was a kid for Emmitt Smith, and I love y'all team.

• 2:38Speaker 02

  Y'all threw shit switch, man, them white teeth he got, that bleach white teeth blinding me, man, I don't know what's going on, dog.

• 2:44Channing Crowder?

  That's Invisalign, that's Invisalign, that's his Invisalign.

• 2:47Speaker 02

  Is that what that whites, that thing they use for the camera to make sure it's white?

• 2:52Channing Crowder?

  The pretty one, yeah.

• 2:52Ryan Clark?

  What the hell, bro, like, dog, yeah. We finna, like, this, some furniture gonna move at some point. And here's the other, here's the other thing, if Channing ain't had these Rat Burg teeth, right, it wouldn't be the comparison of comparing your little chicklets to mine.

• 3:09Channing Crowder?

  I was about to ask Charles, like, you said, so if his teeth are white, what color are my teeth, Charles?

• 3:14Ryan Clark?

  Mother of pearl.

• 3:14Speaker 02

  Dog. Hey, dog, yellow.

• 3:20Ryan Clark?

  Like a dog.

• 3:21Speaker 02

  Oh, yellow.

• 3:22Ryan Clark?

  Yellow.

• 3:23Channing Crowder?

  Charles, I got a golden retriever in my.

• 3:25Speaker 02

  Nah, nah, you got mustard in your mouth.

• 3:28Channing Crowder?

  Oh, bro, man, came here jumping off.

• 3:32Fred Taylor?

  All the guys on the, the old school Cowboys, you was the comedian in the locker room.

• 3:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, I had fun, bruh. They didn't like it too much though, cause you know, they can give a joke, but they can't take a joke.

• 3:45Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 3:45Speaker 02

  And my problem is, I'm not gonna just throw one, I'm gonna throw two, three, four, five.

• 3:50Ryan Clark?

  Well, hell, we see that.

• 3:51Speaker 02

  Well, you know, hey man, it is what it is.

• 3:54Ryan Clark?

  You must've got a lot of fights.

• 3:55Speaker 02

  Fighting, man, you know what, that's passion, fight is passion, when two teammates fight, they're just showing true love to one another.

• 4:03Channing Crowder?

  You know what, I told this to RC, I said, that's a man-relationship.

• 4:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:08Channing Crowder?

  When two men have a rela, a man-relationship, y'all make fun of each other, you might have to lock up.

• 4:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 4:14Channing Crowder?

  And you done locked up with teammates before?

• 4:16Speaker 02

  I've locked up with a lot of these teammates, man, yeah.

• 4:19Channing Crowder?

  If you had to guess how many teammates you fought?

• 4:22Speaker 02

  It's been a bunch.

• 4:24Ryan Clark?

  You talking about ten, thirty?

• 4:26Speaker 02

  From high school up, coaches, players.

• 4:29Ryan Clark?

  You fought coaches too?

• 4:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, um, yeah, kind of high school coming up, man, that's why I have trust issues.

• 4:35Ryan Clark?

  Okay.

• 4:36Speaker 02

  Because, um, you know, they would send players in to jump me and all this other stuff, man, so you know.

• 4:41Ryan Clark?

  Was that racial stuff, though?

• 4:43Speaker 02

  No.

• 4:43Ryan Clark?

  Sending players in to jump you?

• 4:44Speaker 02

  Hey.

• 4:45Ryan Clark?

  Cause you grew up a different time.

• 4:46Speaker 02

  You know what the deal is, that, you know, when they can't control something, they can't break my spirit.

• 4:51Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 4:52Speaker 02

  But they tried.

• 4:53Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 4:54Speaker 02

  But you know what, every time they tried, it made it stronger. So they should have stopped trying, they might have broke it then. But, you know what, um, they can't define me.

• 5:04Ryan Clark?

  Obviously, you one of the greatest players to ever play the position, multiple Super Bowls with two different teams, played for two of the most storied franchises in football. But it took you a long time to get in the Hall of Fame. There are a lot of people who were on your side saying that that should have happened as a first ballot Hall of Famer. Do you think it was that personality that refused to be broken, the personality that did it?

• 5:25Speaker 02

  You should rethink, uh, when you say story franchises, the players made the franchises.

• 5:30Ryan Clark?

  Okay.

• 5:31Speaker 02

  The franchises owned the players.

• 5:33Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 5:34Speaker 02

  But we made the franchises great. And when I look back, they didn't look at my body of work. They looked at my personality. They looked at, I didn't want to do interviews, you know what? I, I'm not gonna be that guy that they can say stuff about and then think they can be my friends tomorrow. So I keep it one hundred real.

• 5:56Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 5:57Speaker 02

  And, uh, they don't understand that.

• 5:59Ryan Clark?

  So if the media says certain things about you, or?

• 6:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, we gotta have that conversation.

• 6:04Ryan Clark?

  Really?

• 6:04Speaker 02

  You couldn't let it go? Uh, you say yes or no, he gonna make you look like a fool. How can you allow that to pass? How can you allow others to think that they can do the same thing to you down the road? So you set a standard from the beginning. You ain't doing that to me. You ain't doing it, so you damn sure you ain't gonna do it.

• 6:26Fred Taylor?

  If he had played back in your era, he'd have been in your hip pocket. Cause he was wild out there too.

• 6:32Speaker 02

  He was?

• 6:32Fred Taylor?

  Yeah, he was crazy.

• 6:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, he would have been my hip pocket.

• 6:35Fred Taylor?

  He's still slightly crazy, but it's the funny crazy.

• 6:36Speaker 02

  My back pocket, he would always be behind me on the bench, you know?

• 6:40Ryan Clark?

  Dang, Channing?

• 6:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, dawg.

• 6:42Ryan Clark?

  Channing, is, that's not a lie though, the man Hall of Famer though.

• 6:45Speaker 02

  Ah, damn.

• 6:48Ryan Clark?

  You ain't got no Hall of Fame cuticles on your toes, motherfucker. How about that?

• 6:52Speaker 02

  You know what? You keep looking at my toes, dawg, man. What you trying to tell me, dawg? You must want to put some lotion on them.

• 7:00Ryan Clark?

  Hey, Channing, Channing. Them hoes done dragged the free agents.

• 7:03Channing Crowder?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, that ain't going first round.

• 7:05Speaker 02

  Hey, dawg, what are y'all doing, man? I'm trying to, I'm trying to turn white, dawg, one foot at a time. What are y'all doing, dawg?

• 7:13Ryan Clark?

  I'm surprised you, I thought you had a sock on when you first came here.

• 7:19Ryan Clark?

  So, speaking of that, though, tell us about the White House.

• 7:21Speaker 02

  Oh, um, I saw, I saw President, um, Bush. I saw Clinton.

• 7:29Ryan Clark?

  Okay.

• 7:29Speaker 02

  I, um...

• 7:31Channing Crowder?

  Come on now, come on now, come on now.

• 7:34Speaker 02

  What are you talking about?

• 7:35Channing Crowder?

  Is it like a sacred thing where you like? You can't talk about it? You can't talk about it?

• 7:39Ryan Clark?

  It's like the Fight Club.

• 7:40Speaker 02

  I told you I went to the White House. I went in on my five sub, bro.

• 7:43Channing Crowder?

  The infamous White House.

• 7:44Speaker 02

  And then I got invited to the White House, um, by different presidents. You been to those White Houses?

• 7:49Ryan Clark?

  I've been, I've only been once.

• 7:51Speaker 02

  Oh, Lord, oh, Lord, hey.

• 7:53Ryan Clark?

  I got to see President Obama, though. That's like seventeen years.

• 7:56Speaker 02

  I just got a question for you.

• 7:57Ryan Clark?

  Yes, sir.

• 7:58Speaker 02

  Did you go to the Oval Office?

• 7:59Ryan Clark?

  No, sir.

• 8:00Speaker 02

  Okay, man.

• 8:02Ryan Clark?

  Bro, this our show.

• 8:04Speaker 02

  Charles?

• 8:05Ryan Clark?

  What you doing?

• 8:06Speaker 02

  When you ain't been there.

• 8:08Ryan Clark?

  And if Charles... Hey, what are you even talking about?

• 8:11Speaker 02

  He over there talking. I ain't been nowhere, dawg. I ain't been nowhere, dawg.

• 8:15Channing Crowder?

  And if you kick him, and if you...

• 8:17Speaker 02

  They didn't let him walk through a little room, and he happy.

• 8:19Channing Crowder?

  Yeah, walk on the lawn.

• 8:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 8:21Channing Crowder?

  And if you kick him, he gonna bleed.

• 8:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 8:23Channing Crowder?

  Yeah, so you might not want to do that.

• 8:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, they, they got in there, and they, they were, they, they were, couldn't catch their breath. And I told them, that's the smell of greatness. And when my black ass leave, it goes with me. So, you know, they were in there, dawg. They were in there trying to get it.

• 8:42Ryan Clark?

  Charles, who was, who was, because you, you seem like, like we've now come to the conclusion that you're just a bad person. Who was, uh, like your favorite teammate?

• 8:52Speaker 02

  Ronnie Lott, Ronnie Lott was, um.

• 8:54Ryan Clark?

  Was it because he was mean and a a-hole like you too?

• 8:57Speaker 02

  No, you know what? I couldn't figure, I couldn't figure Ronnie out. Uh, because he could turn that light bulb on and off. And I couldn't understand how you could do that. I'm one of those guys that I'm a, um, I people watch. I, I just sit and watch and I tried to learn as much as I could and, um, I couldn't learn and I was getting frustrated. Whatever he did, I went with him and stuff and he made me go, he made me go to this, um, Bobby show, he was giving out shoes, man. And this 10-year-old kid changed my life. Because he walked up to Ronnie and said, "What makes you great?"

• 9:34Speaker 02

  And he said, "I play without fear." Hell, I got from under his shadow after that point. I put fear in others. Hey, I was good. But, um, yeah, he said, man, Joe Montana. Hey, man, I, you know, I, I'm gonna tell you, God's grace and mercy is, is so abundant. You know? I, I walked in in a field dog and, uh, I'm coming from Gladys and Jean. I'm, we was in church all day Sunday. So I don't know who these people are. And I, and I get drafted there and Joe Montana, Jerry Rice, Ronnie, Roger Cray, all these guys just playing with me. And I didn't know who they were, man. And then I got down to preseason game and that program, you know how you get scared and you start wanting to read something?

• 10:19Speaker 02

  I went to the picture book though. I didn't want to read none, I just went to picture and I saw all these pictures of Joe Montana and I'm, and then Ronnie and, so I got up and I'm going, and I just sat there and I just kept asking myself, "God, what are you telling me?"

• 10:33Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 10:33Speaker 02

  You know? I had to, um. Tell Coach Walsh, I said, "Coach," I said, "um, am I gonna get a chance to play?" He said, "Well, you know, normally when you..." I said, "Sir, am I gonna get a chance to compete?" He said, "Well," um, I said, "um, is that yes or no?" He said, "Yes." I said, "So I walked off, right? I think he was still talking."

• 10:53Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 10:53Speaker 02

  But you know what? All I wanna know is if I'm gonna get that opportunity, 'cause I don't sit on nobody's bench.

• 10:58Ryan Clark?

  That's so crazy, though. Think about the names he just said. Ronnie Lott, Joe Montana, Jerry Rice, Roger Craig. Those teams were different, like those teams are a story.

• 11:08Channing Crowder?

  He didn't even know who they were when he got there. Like, he didn't even, you didn't know the lineage of those Hall of Fame guys. You, did you think not watching football helped you? Because you, you, like, you can respect people.

• 11:21Ryan Clark?

  No, no fear, though, of people.

• 11:22Channing Crowder?

  Like, you have no fear because these dudes aren't on this pedestal. They just, they're human beings that's out here running around. You think it helped you not to watch football when you were coming in?

• 11:29Speaker 02

  Man, hey, we wanna be honest. Most of the people we play with, we don't respect. 'Cause the more you know about them, the less you respect them. But 'cause of the things they, they do or the person they are.

• 11:41Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 11:42Speaker 02

  My thing about, those guys became, um, friends of mine's. Or, um, not, you know, not like me and Ronnie, though, but they were friends of mine's. And, um, you know, I, I couldn't even tell you most of the people I played against, 'cause all they were, a number, on that shirt, and that weight and height.

• 12:01Ryan Clark?

  Yep.

• 12:01Speaker 02

  That's all I wanna know, because I'd never want to, uh, know, know this guy, read his history, 'cause his kids might have cancer, his kids, so, you know, he might have something.

• 12:13Ryan Clark?

  You didn't wanna be solved in no way.

• 12:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, I feel like, I'm starting to feel guilty for a guy going, you know, trying to, you know, take his job or something. So I said, "Okay, I'll put it like that, 'cause all I need to know is, on your second step, where are you?"

• 12:25Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 12:26Speaker 02

  You leaning, or your chest going up? 'Cause whichever way you're doing, it's gonna be, it's gonna be bad for you.

• 12:32Channing Crowder?

  And we saw, we saw you do a lot of people bad.

• 12:35Speaker 02

  Do you watch much football these days? No. This is not, this is not the game that I know. This is for my kids' generation.

• 12:45Speaker 02

  They're training them to play, um, to look at flag football. Where a quarterback can play till he a hundred years old. Yeah. Have these guys, Tom Brady would have never played over, if he'd have played in our division, ay, played against the D, we'd take two and a half steps and plant you and then get a flag. Yeah. It's a different game. It's a different game. You think it's just way softer. I don't know how you look at players of the day and try to compare them with the players of our day. Mm-hmm. You know, the reason why I'm not playing anymore because the chip block, because they used to do it at the hip. Now they do it at the shoulder. Right. Ay, you can't engage, you know, it's, they changed those line. Chop block, you can't. Right.

• 13:29Speaker 02

  Crackback, all those things. Yeah, so you know, those rules are making guys play longer, so guess what? That's, that's gonna be better than, than everybody else's stats. Then they had thirteen damn games. Seventeen. Seventeen games, yeah. Seventeen this year. So.

• 13:45Channing Crowder?

  Charles, it is, you was a bad man, you was a bad man, because we younger than you, we all watched you.

• 13:50Speaker 02

  One hundred percent.

• 13:50Channing Crowder?

  We everybody knew.

• 13:51Speaker 02

  I was damn scared of you from the crib.

• 13:52Channing Crowder?

  You was coming off that edge.

• 13:53Speaker 02

  Did y'all write this question down, because he don't look smart.

• 13:55Channing Crowder?

  No, no, no. I don't look smart.

• 14:00Speaker 02

  Hey, now he write, he write his questions down on his notebook, Charles. But he can't even read it. He write it down, he can't even read it on the page. Oh my God, man.

• 14:10Channing Crowder?

  You gonna ride with them hot waters on.

• 14:11Speaker 02

  You gonna ride, ride.

• 14:12Channing Crowder?

  No matter how much it rain, your pants ain't gonna get wet.

• 14:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:15Channing Crowder?

  Yeah, it ain't gonna get wet. But, but, but you a bad man, who did you play against that you respect? Years are you playing, a tackle or a guard, a quarterback? Because you really don't seem like you got friends, you don't gotta be friends with them, but who do you respect?

• 14:30Speaker 02

  Bro, you don't seem like nobody like you.

• 14:32Channing Crowder?

  Bro, you gotta have a name, he got, everybody respects somebody.

• 14:35Speaker 02

  At the Hall of Fame, they tell us about some damn brotherhood. Right, right, right. And I had to stand up and tell them something. I said, Jackie Slater hit me so damn hard, I saw Jesus Christ with all three forms. You saw the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit? I saw it all, ay, dog, and it was doing like this. And I said, y'all want me to talk about some damn brotherhood like I'm in love with it? Nah, bruh, ain't happening. I said, this is one of those things, I'm gonna take to heaven and say, Lord, forgive me. Because I didn't forgive him. And then, uh, Anthony Munoz, I played against him there. Yeah, but I, I, I caught both of those guys at the end of that game, man, but they all taught me something, right?

• 15:11Channing Crowder?

  Right.

• 15:12Speaker 02

  Anthony Munoz, man, I beat him for a sack, man. And, you know, I didn't know what Spanish was. Where I grew up, it's black and white. And, um, so I beat him and he started saying stuff, right? So I'm, I mean, bruh, I ain't know what's going on, bruh. I don't know what's going on. I ran off the field.

• 15:28Channing Crowder?

  You beat him, bop, bop, what, you hit him with a little, little spin, little rip?

• 15:31Speaker 02

  Nah, nah, dawg, he just got that real speed, dawg.

• 15:35Channing Crowder?

  You just hit it, he ain't touch it?

• 15:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, dawg.

• 15:37Channing Crowder?

  Slap that outside on him.

• 15:38Speaker 02

  They call it blitz. On the blitz, I don't get touched.

• 15:41Channing Crowder?

  You don't get touched on that?

• 15:42Speaker 02

  You just go. I do MC Hammer, can't touch this.

• 15:45Channing Crowder?

  Oh, first off, that tell you how old he is, he with MC Hammer. MC Hammer quote. But Anthony Munoz, he starts speaking Spanish to you, and you leave the field.

• 15:55Speaker 02

  No, he starts speaking Spanish. I don't know what he was talking to himself or what, eh, bruh.

• 16:00Channing Crowder?

  So that scared you? That, that, you scared?

• 16:02Speaker 02

  Terrified me, dawg.

• 16:04Channing Crowder?

  So you ain't scared of no man in the world, but you scared of Spanish?

• 16:08Speaker 02

  Bruh, let me tell you, I went from Virginia to the, to San Francisco airport. I got off the plane and I touched a white guy and asked him what badge claim. He spoke a different language. I touched a black guy, he spoke a different language. Bruh, I went back to that gate. I was ready to go home. I was trying to find out, how do I get back home, dawg? And then John Gruden?

• 16:30Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 16:30Speaker 02

  He, you know, he was working for the 49ers, doing all that little pickup stuff. So I kept hearing my name over the intercom, man. Nah, he probably glad he came to that gate.

• 16:39Channing Crowder?

  John Gruden came and got you?

• 16:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:40Channing Crowder?

  You was gonna leave?

• 16:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, man, I ain't never seen, heard, no seen nothing. I thought this TV shit. When you hear all that, um, different languages and stuff, I thought that was acting, man. I didn't know that was real.

• 16:50Channing Crowder?

  So what part of Virginia are you from? But, RC, you get drafted at 20, what, 21?

• 16:55Speaker 02

  21, 22.

• 16:56Channing Crowder?

  You got drafted at 21 and never heard another language other than English?

• 17:01Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 17:01Channing Crowder?

  Were you a slave?

• 17:04Speaker 02

  Bruh, I'm from a small town in the country. What are you talking about, you dumbass?

• 17:11Speaker 02

  Bruh.

• 17:11Ryan Clark?

  Really?

• 17:12Speaker 02

  Bruh, y'all got more experience than me, man. I, I don't, I don't, you know, look at the cities you come from.

• 17:17Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 17:18Speaker 02

  I ain't come from the city, I came from a small little country town.

• 17:21Ryan Clark?

  He country's hell.

• 17:22Speaker 02

  Bruh, bruh, in my little small country town, it's their own law. Our town is segregated, so black cops come to our neighborhood, white go there.

• 17:30Ryan Clark?

  Hmm.

• 17:30Speaker 02

  And, and they'll come pick you up, put you in the front seat, no handcuffs, never pull out a gun, because everybody knew each other.

• 17:37Ryan Clark?

  Hmm.

• 17:37Speaker 02

  And they'll drive you to the port house, and bring you back home. Y'all, y'all in the cities, when you go out in those rural areas in the country, you gonna figure something out. You know, until I got to college, I've never seen a, a black person with a white person.

• 17:54Ryan Clark?

  Talking about a relationship?

• 17:56Speaker 02

  Right. Till I got to college.

• 17:58Ryan Clark?

  You never saw interracial relationship till college?

• 18:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 18:02Ryan Clark?

  Was it because of the, the, the racism, or was it just because of where you were, where you, where you were from? Like, uh, the place you were from?

• 18:08Speaker 02

  Man, everything is understood, it's not about, um, racism, it's just, it's understood language. You know what I'm saying? You are taught that as a kid, and, and you watch it. You know, your mom ain't saying, hey, don't do this, you know, you see it. And you going like, you know, you ask yourself, okay, why, you know? Everybody stay in that lane.

• 18:30Ryan Clark?

  And you, you a big football star, you ain't never shoot at no white girl?

• 18:34Speaker 02

  No.

• 18:35Ryan Clark?

  You never shot at a white girl?

• 18:36Speaker 02

  When?

• 18:37Ryan Clark?

  When you was young.

• 18:37Speaker 02

  When you was young?

• 18:38Ryan Clark?

  You know he shot at a white girl, he's at the White House?

• 18:40Channing Crowder?

  Oh, well, he was in Dallas, I know that.

• 18:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, you already know, he was pew pew.

• 18:43Ryan Clark?

  You see, hey, man.

• 18:44Speaker 02

  He was pew pew when he got to the Dallas, Dallas, hey, pew pew.

• 18:47Channing Crowder?

  He was shooting off the hill. You didn't even put it out in the poster, you just turned the poster and shot.

• 18:52Speaker 02

  His, his young gang suspect.

• 18:54Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, man. What place you like better, though, San Fran or Dallas? Not the team, the place to live. Because you don't want to talk about the White House, what, what was a better environment? What was more fun? What did you enjoy more?

• 19:04Speaker 02

  For me, it wasn't about California or Dallas.

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• 20:09Speaker 02

  Football was my life, was my love. So when they traded me from California, everything from California went to [BLEEP]. After Jerry picked me up and said, "I got your back", Texas became my place, man. But, you know, if I have to talk about what I've learned, I learned the game of football in California. They taught me the game. At the Cowboys, man, it's about four defenses and repetition. You know, you got these guys that can run all day, jump through the roof, dumber than hell. And so they had, they had four, they had four defenses. Man, I would go to sleep, bruh.

• 20:47Channing Crowder?

  And the millions.

• 20:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, and then, then they want you to practice.

• 20:51Ryan Clark?

  But practice is part of the game, Charles.

• 20:52Speaker 02

  What? Show me on a contract somewhere where they put in there, "You gotta practice X number of days."

• 20:58Ryan Clark?

  You get paid to practice?

• 20:59Speaker 02

  No, you don't.

• 21:00Channing Crowder?

  You know what, you gotta have a point.

• 21:01Speaker 02

  You get paid for the game. You must...

• 21:03Channing Crowder?

  You get paid on Sunday, RC.

• 21:05Ryan Clark?

  Channing, Channing, I'm not dumb.

• 21:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, you are.

• 21:08Ryan Clark?

  You had to pay me.

• 21:08Speaker 02

  You gotta be dumb.

• 21:09Ryan Clark?

  You had to pay me from Monday through Saturday. The game was free. The game is what I wanted to be there for.

• 21:13Channing Crowder?

  But in the contract, the game is what you get paid. Your contract, I got you, baby. Your contract is divided between sixteen. No, no, no, no.

• 21:22Speaker 02

  Decide to be together.

• 21:22Channing Crowder?

  If your contract is divided between sixteen game, your contract is.

• 21:26Ryan Clark?

  Sixteen weeks.

• 21:27Channing Crowder?

  Sixteen weeks.

• 21:28Ryan Clark?

  Yes.

• 21:28Channing Crowder?

  But you get paid per game.

• 21:31Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 21:31Channing Crowder?

  You get.

• 21:31Ryan Clark?

  You're missing, you're missing the point.

• 21:33Channing Crowder?

  If they suspend you, RC, if they suspend you, what they suspend you for? They suspend you practice? Do they suspend you for practice?

• 21:38Ryan Clark?

  You don't practice if you.

• 21:39Channing Crowder?

  I know, because they suspend you for the game. You get paid for your four hour performance on Sunday, bro.

• 21:43Ryan Clark?

  You're explaining something to me that I know.

• 21:46Speaker 02

  No, you don't.

• 21:46Ryan Clark?

  I'm talking about what I'm saying.

• 21:48Speaker 02

  No, you don't.

• 21:49Ryan Clark?

  The games is what I was there for. Practice was what you had to pay me for.

• 21:53Channing Crowder?

  Yeah, I understand what you're saying.

• 21:53Speaker 02

  You're saying that love of the game, it drove you to, um. I don't understand none of your, none of your logic.

• 21:59Ryan Clark?

  Because, look at his shoes, you like those?

• 22:01Speaker 02

  Hey, man, with them tight pants, go with it, dog, man, I don't know.

• 22:05Ryan Clark?

  Charles, when I look like you, I dress like you.

• 22:07Speaker 02

  Bruh.

• 22:09Ryan Clark?

  As long, hey, as long as I look like this.

• 22:11Speaker 02

  You dream about looking like me, dawg, because you know what? This is what greatness look like.

• 22:15Ryan Clark?

  That is a Freddy Krueger nightmare to me.

• 22:17Speaker 02

  You have to go work out.

• 22:19Ryan Clark?

  That is nightmare on Elm Street to me.

• 22:19Speaker 02

  You have to go work out, you have to do regiment to, to try to be a man. I am a man.

• 22:25Ryan Clark?

  Oh, what the hell?

• 22:26Fred Taylor?

  I wanna, um, I wanna, I wanna pivot the conversation.

• 22:29Speaker 02

  Go ahead, I know.

• 22:30Ryan Clark?

  Please.

• 22:30Speaker 02

  I'm just trying, right?

• 22:31Ryan Clark?

  Can you?

• 22:32Fred Taylor?

  We're in an age where media is everywhere.

• 22:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:35Fred Taylor?

  You know, you do anything, it's in China before you can snap your fingers. Back in your time, they covered a lot of stuff up. Hell, I forgot that you even, uh, backhanded your old coach, Seifert, back in the day.

• 22:48Ryan Clark?

  Bro, you slapped Seifert?

• 22:49Speaker 02

  That was, that's, I never hit that man.

• 22:51Fred Taylor?

  But more importantly, I want to ask you about Henry Ruggs.

• 22:55Ryan Clark?

  Henry Ruggs is a wide receiver, or was a wide receiver.

• 22:58Speaker 02

  That hit somebody, right?

• 22:58Ryan Clark?

  Yes, sir, and they, and they passed. The young lady lost her life.

• 23:01Speaker 02

  Hey, I drove drunk.

• 23:04Fred Taylor?

  We, we all have.

• 23:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, but, um, I'm bipolar, I live in fear in my own head, so I always figured somebody was out to get me. So if I, if I wanted to guys to a club, some, I'll drink whatever I drank within the first thirty minutes. And then I'm watching everybody, right? Yeah, because I'm seeing who's trying to get behind me or something, right? So, um, that was not something I do, and I didn't, um, for drug tests, I did all that stuff, I didn't do. But a lot of guys got in trouble, man, and, um, yeah, and you're right. It, when I, when I grew up, because there was no media. So it's, it's all about hush money or whatever, you know? Keep it moving. And not, you know, to be honest with you, um, when you win.

• 23:48Speaker 02

  People turn, you know.

• 23:49Ryan Clark?

  They look the other way.

• 23:51Speaker 02

  Look the other way. You know, but when you ain't winning, they ain't looking the other way.

• 23:55Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 23:55Speaker 02

  You know what I'm saying? And this generation of athletes have no respect for anybody. Yes, sir, no, sir. That breaks down all the, all the anger. Cops walk up to me and they can say whatever they want. And I'll tell them, I say, you know what? Cause you being an asshole ain't gonna make me hate the other ninety-nine that ain't. But I'm still gonna give him his respect regardless.

• 24:17Ryan Clark?

  When, you know, you, you speak of the young generation, you speak of the way that things are now with, whether, whether it's media.

• 24:24Speaker 02

  It ain't changed, bruh. Bruh, ain't nothing changed.

• 24:27Ryan Clark?

  I know, but, but what's changed is, what's changed is now we know though, Charles.

• 24:30Speaker 02

  All you got is that phone now.

• 24:32Ryan Clark?

  Now we know that it's not, it's not one good one and then ninety-nine great ones. And obviously you have to conduct yourself a certain way, but it does become more difficult when you get to see it.

• 24:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, but you know what? So what? Uh, the media knew what was going on. They chose, they picked the stories they wanna talk about. So the only thing that changed now is, is when it happens, the media don't necessarily picks up. It's because it, it goes viral.

• 24:59Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 24:59Speaker 02

  And so many people comment on it, then they do wanna join in on the conversation. But I do our school reading program, man, with the kids, man. And I tell them, it's not about black or white. It's not about rich or poor. It's about has and have not.

• 25:15Ryan Clark?

  One hundred percent.

• 25:16Speaker 02

  Who has education?

• 25:17Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 25:18Speaker 02

  And the ones that have an education keep moving outward. Those that don't end up in jail or prison. So that's the real social justice issue of this generation. What are we gonna do? Are we gonna stay in ignorance all our life? Or are we gonna move forward?

• 25:38Channing Crowder?

  How have you changed the most since the guy that came at twenty-one? And had to fly to San Francisco and never hear anybody else speak any other language other than English?

• 25:51Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 25:52Channing Crowder?

  To where you are at today? What, what, I would say, what's your biggest progression?

• 25:56Speaker 02

  I, I, you know, as I tell people, I was a racist because that's what I was, I was being treated as. So, you know, when I got to college, you know, Charles McMillan was my head coach. And he was just nice doing everything. Then I, one day, I was just sitting there. We were just talking about something and I just looked back and I realized most of the people that helped me were white.

• 26:21Speaker 02

  But yet, I'm still sitting here harboring this, this pain because I grew up in a segregated town. Might have been called a few names. I said, you know what? I, so I, I had to let that go first. And that helped me propel me to what I'm doing now. And the change is, I'm not, I'm not Hall of Famer, five-time Super Bowl champ, Cowboy of forty-niners. That was a job that I had.

• 26:48Ryan Clark?

  Right. It's not who you are.

• 26:50Speaker 02

  That's not who I am. Who I am is Charles Haley, a broken man that's, that has fallen, that has been, been stepped on, walked on. But yet, never broken.

• 27:03Fred Taylor?

  Antonio Brown, he said, he made that same comment. Football is what I do, not who I am. If he was your teammate from, you know, back in the day, how would you have responded to him walking off the field? Tough love? You would have quit on him?

• 27:19Speaker 02

  He would not have walked off the field.

• 27:21Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 27:21Speaker 02

  Because he would have known how much we loved him.

• 27:25Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 27:25Speaker 02

  From A. And it don't matter whether he walked over in a corner, high. I would have been in a corner with him. Cause you know what? We go through the same struggles, man. You know what? They so busy on their damn iPhones. I, I go to forty-niners, Cowboys, they don't talk to one another. That, you ask them, say, what's his surname? You sit beside him every day in the locker, you don't know. Oh, um, I think it's John or so. I said, he ain't got no kids.

• 27:55Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 27:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, so you know, how do you build trust when you don't have a relationship? How do you build teamwork? Belichick, they said, uh, he doesn't have TVs and none of that crap on the walls and stuff. He still keep it the old way. So now, guess what? You have to talk to one another. And that's why they win.

• 28:15Speaker 02

  I'm a big advocate of, you know, I try to tell coaches, you gotta find some way to keep the phones out of the locker room just so the guys can talk. I'll go over to Cowboys, I see guys acting like I used to act. I grab them by the hand like they're little baby, and I take them see the psychiatrist.

• 28:33Ryan Clark?

  Do you regret whether it's not getting help earlier, or just some of your behavior as a player? Do you regret the way you treated the media? Do you regret the way you reacted to certain things because of your perception?

• 28:48Speaker 02

  I wish I would have treated my teammates like I did. I didn't have to talk about the way they looked at kids and, and blah, blah, blah. I didn't have to do that to get them to do what I wanted. But my thing was is, I need to know if you're a dog or not. I need to know if you, you know, if I talk about your wife, are you, you know, that don't, that don't spark a spark? You know, I need to see a spark. I talk about their mom, dad, cousin, uncle, sister-in-law.

• 29:18Channing Crowder?

  Get information on them? Did you ever get information on them before the game?

• 29:21Speaker 02

  No. No, I ain't talking about, I'm talking about teammates.

• 29:24Ryan Clark?

  He talking about people in the locker room with him chanting.

• 29:26Channing Crowder?

  So you had to find information on them to see if they was a dog?

• 29:29Speaker 02

  Yeah. I had to, I had to, um.

• 29:32Ryan Clark?

  Channing, that's not okay. That's okay.

• 29:34Speaker 02

  You gotta see if they have a spark.

• 29:36Ryan Clark?

  You gotta see if they got the.

• 29:37Speaker 02

  Because it turns into a flame. Hey, man.

• 29:39Channing Crowder?

  And a flame turns into a forest fire.

• 29:42Speaker 02

  What's beside you? How you gonna go out there and know what's not beside you?

• 29:46Ryan Clark?

  Hey, Channing, I like that.

• 29:48Channing Crowder?

  He's an idiot. You gotta see what you're dealing with.

• 29:50Ryan Clark?

  This, I, I was gonna say. I'm glad they sent y'all over there because y'all both two a-hoes.

• 29:54Channing Crowder?

  You know what? We gonna hang, we gonna hang out, and I'm gonna pick, I'm gonna pick you up tonight, don't worry about it.

• 29:58Speaker 02

  No, dog.

• 29:59Ryan Clark?

  That man, he say he a changed man. He don't wanna hang with you?

• 30:02Channing Crowder?

  No.

• 30:03Ryan Clark?

  Does he look like he do light skates, man, or wear lotion?

• 30:05Speaker 02

  Hey, I was looking for some law and I couldn't find a law.

• 30:10Fred Taylor?

  I almost spit this happy dad out.

• 30:12Channing Crowder?

  I, I done heard a story about you, Charles. When I was with the Dolphins, there was a trainer that worked at Dallas and said he used to walk around butt naked. And you just sit there with your big man hanging out. And you used to look at other guys and be like, you wish you had this.

• 30:25Ryan Clark?

  Channing, why are you fascinated with penises, bro?

• 30:28Channing Crowder?

  I'm just asking.

• 30:29Ryan Clark?

  What is wrong with you?

• 30:31Channing Crowder?

  Okay, RC, let's talk about this. Have you ever seen a man?

• 30:34Speaker 02

  My question is, we all play, how long you play football? How many long you play sports?

• 30:39Channing Crowder?

  For all together?

• 30:40Speaker 02

  Right.

• 30:41Channing Crowder?

  Twenty something, twenty something years?

• 30:42Speaker 02

  So, you just like me, you been around naked men all your life, all your life. So, you gonna tell me what? I, hey, bruh, sometimes I don't have clothes, man, I just walk around and look for some.

• 30:54Channing Crowder?

  You always have clothes in the facility, Charles.

• 30:57Speaker 02

  You just sometimes they take your bag, your momma bag.

• 31:00Ryan Clark?

  You still wearing equipment issue, right now. You are still wearing the clothes they gave you in Dallas.

• 31:07Channing Crowder?

  Jerry Jones gave you these pants.

• 31:09Speaker 02

  Hey, Jerry don't give nothing.

• 31:12Speaker 02

  Y'all, y'all talking about the wrong Jerry Jones. Y'all, I ain't talking about the Jerry that I know.

• 31:16Channing Crowder?

  But Charles, is there any story you've heard about yourself that's untrue? Cause I heard some crazy stuff about it.

• 31:22Speaker 02

  The one that bothers me the most is when they said that I alleviated myself on Tim Harris' car. Because, me and Tim was friends, what they tried to do was, cause they thought, because they brought Tim in, that that was the reason why I acted out. I, Tim already knew there was gonna only be one. And that was me. Hey, no matter what he did at Green Bay, and me and him, we would go out drinking, we would have, we would have contests on who get the most sacks or whatever. You know, there was no animosity towards us, because he was a different animal than me. And different personality, so that bothers me the most. Rest of the stuff I can deal with, and I don't care. Um, but that one, I, it bothers me a lot.

• 32:06Speaker 02

  And the other thing is, is people say stuff when they get gone.

• 32:11Channing Crowder?

  Right.

• 32:12Speaker 02

  You know, that when you there, they, nobody says anything, but then, hey, they wanna leak and tell things instead of man up, and then, why, why fight a battle you can't win? The more you try to explain it, the worse it gets.

• 32:27Channing Crowder?

  Right.

• 32:28Speaker 02

  You know, so, how, you know, you can either keep digging a hole, or stop. And I choose to stop.

• 32:35Channing Crowder?

  You ain't got no regrets?

• 32:37Speaker 02

  Ain't got none.

• 32:38Fred Taylor?

  I got one for him. 1999, you was in San Fran still, right? Came to Jacksonville, it was raining, that was my second year in the NFL. We towed that ass up.

• 32:49Channing Crowder?

  Oh, Charles, you hit him, Freddie?

• 32:51Fred Taylor?

  Hey, I probably got a little piece.

• 32:53Ryan Clark?

  Fred Taylor does not have a story where they didn't do great, so.

• 32:56Fred Taylor?

  I'm just saying, that's the year we was good. We was good. It was raining.

• 33:00Speaker 02

  Y'all was good?

• 33:01Fred Taylor?

  Yeah, we was good.

• 33:02Speaker 02

  I'm not coming, I don't, see, me and you are different. I don't need to knock your knees down to stand on your shoulders. I'm already on top of your shoulders, so, okay? So, you know what? Don't matter what you say, hey. You can't knock a giant down.

• 33:18Ryan Clark?

  Hey, I'm gonna tell you what, hey, you are a giant man and you were without a doubt, bruh.

• 33:22Speaker 02

  Look at that, he got jealous and want to touch my hands too. You saw that? You saw that? He was landing four more times. You saw him, doc, come on, doc, okay?

• 33:30Channing Crowder?

  You got it, you got it, RC, there you go.

• 33:32Speaker 02

  God, man, you got a little hand.

• 33:34Ryan Clark?

  Your hand dry as hell, Charles. It's over, man.

• 33:37Speaker 02

  I told you I can't get no lard, bro. I don't know if they even, I don't even know if they sell it.

• 33:43Channing Crowder?

  Charles, you're an OG. Who get more girls out of us three when we was in our prime?

• 33:49Speaker 02

  Who had the most money?

• 33:51Ryan Clark?

  That don't mean nothing.

• 33:52Speaker 02

  That's all it meant.

• 33:53Ryan Clark?

  That don't matter.

• 33:55Speaker 02

  Because you know what? When she walks up, she already do all the money, all the digits, oh, I love you.

• 34:00Ryan Clark?

  What about the charismatic personality?

• 34:02Speaker 02

  No, no.

• 34:02Ryan Clark?

  Your personality is actually not that good, bro.

• 34:05Speaker 02

  You got a charismatic personality?

• 34:07Ryan Clark?

  I do.

• 34:08Speaker 02

  So you want another man to judge you?

• 34:11Ryan Clark?

  I judged you. Back in your heyday when you had a cowboy collar, we'll raise a baby together.

• 34:18Fred Taylor?

  He threw you for a loop.

• 34:19Speaker 02

  It's time, man, it's time, you get the hell out of here. Hey, bruh, I always paid my stay.