505: Brooke Rollins—Where's the Beef?

This is a two-parter in one episode! Part One was recorded in May, when Mike sat down with Agriculture Secretary Brooke Rollins to talk about her vision for American agriculture, the challenges facing farmers and ranchers, and the future of food production in America. Four months later, Mike needed to follow up after President Trump's proclamation calling for 300,000 metric tons of additional beef imports—a decision that was met with concern by many American ranchers. So, Part Two was recorded in September. Mike asks the Secretary to explain the decision, what it means for American ranchers, and what it means for consumers. Two conversations, recorded months apart, with a lot more in common than you might expect. Big thanks to our awesome sponsors GoodRanchers.com/ROWE https://bit.ly/TWIHIxGoodRanchers—100% of their meat comes from American farms and ranches and delivered straight to your door. Start your plan and get a FREE Ground Beef Bundle with your firs order. PureTalk.com/ROWE https://bit.ly/PureTalkRowe—Switch your phone service today and get UNLIMITED high-speed data for just $34.99 a month and save an additional 50% off your first month. Digs.com/MIKE https://bit.ly/DigsMikeRowe—The digital operating system for your house. Less rework. Less confusion. And a much smoother build experience for homeowners. Get 40% off your first 3 months

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:03Mike Rowe?

  Hello friends, welcome to The Way I Heard It. My guest today is Brooke Rollins, the Secretary of Agriculture in these United States. The episode is called "Where's the Beef?" You remember that woman, right? Clara, what was her name? Clara Peller, I think, made that expression famous back in the early 80s. It's a phrase that's been on my mind here of late, ever since the president signed a proclamation a couple of weeks ago, allowing 300,000 metric tons of ground beef to come into the American food supply from various countries around the world. This is big news in the agriculture business.

• 0:44Mike Rowe?

  I've heard from a lot of ranchers and a lot of farmers who I'm friendly with, and opinions are very strong, and a lot of people are talking about this. I pointed out, because none of this was going on, when I interviewed Brooke a couple of months ago at the Reagan Library. She was running to catch a flight and very graciously agreed to sit and talk with me for a half hour, but that's all the time she had. And then, a month or so after that, when we were about to post the conversation, this news broke, and I just felt weird putting the conversation on the podcast and not addressing the biggest story in agriculture with the Secretary of Agriculture. So I called Brooke back and said, "Look, can we just hop on a quick Zoom?

• 1:28Mike Rowe?

  Because I really need to ask you about this. It's a huge story." And of course, she said yes. So what you're about to hear is a podcast of typical length. I think the whole thing will probably last an hour, but it happens in two parts. The first part was recorded at the Reagan Library a couple of months ago. The second part was just recorded, very recently, in the wake of this proclamation that President Trump signed. Both conversations, I think, are really interesting. The first one is kind of general, about all things agriculture. The second one is a bit more pointed around our meat supply, our beef supply. "Where's the beef?" you might ask. It's pretty much everywhere.

• 2:09Mike Rowe?

  How can you tell the difference between American beef and beef that's imported from another country? That's a question we'll dive into, because it's not as easy as you think. Anyway, it's the Secretary of Agriculture, Brooke Rollins. "Where's the beef?" I'll show you, right after this.

• 2:34Mike Rowe?

  It's appropriate that Good Ranchers is a sponsor of this episode, and maybe a bit ironic as well, because the administration has just allowed foreign countries to ship 300,000 metric tons of ground beef into the American food supply. I'll ask Secretary Rollins why that's happening, and how the decision is impacting America's ranchers. But, right now, I just want to take a moment to remind you that American ranchers really do raise the best meat on the planet, but they face more challenges than most business owners can even begin to contemplate or relate to, including the preposterous policy that allows meat packers to deceptively label their foreign-grown beef as product of the USA, and then sell it in American grocery stores.

• 3:20Mike Rowe?

  I'll ask the Secretary about that as well, because honestly, that is seriously corrupt, in my view, which is why you should know that Good Ranchers is the number-one company in America that delivers 100% American meat right to your door. They partner with over 100 local farmers and ranchers to deliver pasture-raised meat with no antibiotics, no added hormones. They got 25,000 five-star reviews on TrustPilot, including my own. This month, when you visit GoodRanchers.com/row, you get a free Angus ground beef bundle with your first order. Again, that's GoodRanchers.com/row, for four bonus pounds of American-raised ground beef, guaranteed.

• 4:02Mike Rowe?

  Support your local ranchers by insisting on American meat, delivered, at GoodRanchers.com/row.

• 4:23Mike Rowe?

  All right, well, this is Brooke, Brooke Rollins.

• 4:25Speaker 01

  Hello, yes, Brooke.

• 4:27Mike Rowe?

  You're very important.

• 4:28Speaker 01

  No.

• 4:29Mike Rowe?

  You know, you're critically important. You're the Secretary of Agriculture.

• 4:33Speaker 01

  This is true.

• 4:34Mike Rowe?

  And you've been in that position now since this-

• 4:37Speaker 01

  14 months, yes. February 13th, I raised my hand, and Justice Clarence Thomas swore me in, and-

• 4:44Mike Rowe?

  What was the oath like?

• 4:45Speaker 01

  You know what?

• 4:46Mike Rowe?

  What do they make a Secretary of Agriculture swear to do?

• 4:51Speaker 01

  Here's the amazing thing. I was up in the National Archives, looking at what George Washington had his soldiers swear to in 1775, 1776, and it is basically the same oath from back then. Is that not amazing? Just, "I solemnly swear to uphold the Constitution, to not be beholden to other foreign adversaries, so help me God." It's really cool.

• 5:17Mike Rowe?

  How important is it? Like, whether it's a pledge to the flag, or the Boy Scout oath, how important is it for a person to do that in their life at some point?

• 5:27Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 5:29Mike Rowe?

  And I don't mean marriage, Val. That feels different to me, but like, a promise to yourself, like a code, you know?

• 5:38Speaker 01

  You know, it's like the kids, when we grew up, we're probably about the same age. When we grew up, we did the Pledge of Allegiance every single day, swearing an oath to the country, of course, our amazing men and women in uniform do it. I think that, as we look at our 250th birthday, basically, and this sort of reinvigoration and this revivifying of the American spirit, you know, I look at, across our cabinet, I look at Pete Hegseth and what he's doing to inspire those young men and women, our recruiting is up, it's broken records the last year and a half.

• 6:13Mike Rowe?

  I will say, that's amazing.

• 6:16Speaker 01

  It really is. And so, this love of country, and Memorial Day was just Monday, had one of my kids is going to be a senior at Texas A&M, he's in the Corps of Cadets, brought some friends up, and just this kind of energy and rededication to, frankly, to God, but and to country, by this next generation, is really inspiring, and I think, hopefully, that continues.

• 6:38Mike Rowe?

  I did a show for a long time called Dirty Jobs.

• 6:41Speaker 01

  Yes, very familiar, big fan. For the record, I was the number-one welder at Glen Rose High School, Texas, in 1990. I won the welding award.

• 6:50Mike Rowe?

  Now, I'm going to ask you a sexist question.

• 6:52Speaker 01

  Okay, please.

• 6:53Mike Rowe?

  Number-one female welder, or number-one welder?

• 6:55Speaker 01

  No, this was 1990. There were no male and female awards. It was, you go all in. No, it was, yeah, the number-one welder. My ag teacher, Mr. Rosenbusch, who I'm still very close with 34 years later, I'll never forget, he told me, when I graduated, and he announced the award in front of the whole high school. It was a tiny, little rural high school in Texas, most didn't go to college, and he said, "You know, Brooke, I think you're going to go on to do pretty cool things." And I had a Future Farmer of America scholarship to study agriculture at Texas A&M. He said, "But if it doesn't work out, you know that welders make more than most with a college degree." And I've never forgotten that, and even now, I like, look at beads on different, you know,

• 7:40Speaker 01

  things that are built, and I have to say, I was a pretty good welder.

• 7:43Mike Rowe?

  Why do you think it's such a consequential trade?

• 7:45Speaker 01

  Well, there is no America without the hard, the skilled labor, the builders and the welders and the tradesmen. I mean, that's what our country was about. I mean, for me, I'm repping farmers and ranchers, right? I mean, this is, food security, farm security, is national security. And so, that ethos, right, that building and that welding and that construction job, that's what's best about our country, from my perspective, and those are the jobs that are going to keep us going. I mean-

• 8:16Mike Rowe?

  I think of welding as, well, I mean, it's the ultimate connecting trade. I mean, you're joining things.

• 8:24Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 8:24Mike Rowe?

  You know? And we've had, I don't know-

• 8:26Speaker 01

  That's genius.

• 8:27Mike Rowe?

  Like, 3,500 people go through MicroWorks, and a big chunk of them are welders. And the thing that always struck me, and I'll make this relevant in a second, is the way welding certification so often leads to a plumbing certification, and then electric, and then, and the next thing you know, you bought a van, and now you hired your buddies, and now it's HVAC, and now you got a mechanical contracting company. Way leads on the way, right?

• 8:51Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 8:52Mike Rowe?

  And it so often starts, from what I've seen anyway, with welding. With respect to your own career, I mean, what are you doing here? How did this, like-

• 9:02Speaker 01

  Wait, what just happened? I don't know. The president calls and says he wants me to be the Secretary of Agriculture.

• 9:08Mike Rowe?

  Why? Why is the president calling you?

• 9:10Speaker 01

  So, without the way-too-long, boring story, I mean, raised by a single mom, went to college on a scholarship, basically a first-gen college student, studied agriculture, had a heart and a fire for my country that my mom instilled, but also, I just think it was probably a God thing, and so, I went off to A&M, loved people and public service, and A&M lit a fire in me. It was an all-male military school, more Medal of Honor winners from there than anywhere but the three academies, more officers in World War II than anyone, including the academies. I mean, so that the spirit, and again, I'm a single mom, three little girls, barely made it, right? Struggle, struggle, struggle.

• 9:53Speaker 01

  Graduate from high school, go way far away, the other end of the earth, from my rural town, two hours, but it was like I was leaving the world. And A&M and the Future Farmers, honestly, really just inspired me. I thought I'd be a stay-at-home mom, that was kind of what I wanted to do.

• 10:10Mike Rowe?

  Sorry, how long were you in Future Farmers?

• 10:13Speaker 01

  Well, all of high school, obviously, and then I worked for the National FFA through college. Um, kind of organizing and leadership. But, long story short, I ended up in Rick Perry's first term as governor, running his policy shop. I went to law school at Texas, so I was a general counsel. Then I basically launched the Texas Public Policy Foundation, which is sort of the free-market conservative Texas-first think-tank in Texas. Never thought I would leave, took it from me to about 150 employees, moved Texas toward freedom, deregulation, more prosperity, more jobs, more trades than anywhere in the country at the time. Those were during the Obama years. Got a call from the first Trump White House, you know, "Hey, can you come up here and basically build in the West Wing what you

• 10:58Speaker 01

  built in Texas?" And I said, "I have a third grader, fifth grader, sixth grader, and eighth grader. My husband runs an energy company. I'm not, I can't move to DC, but I'll keep helping you." And, long story short, I was convinced by the president and others to come up in that first term, was, ended up being his domestic policy chief, so built out his entire policy agenda, was ready for the second term. Second term didn't happen. I built a new think-tank called the America First Policy Institute to basically take what we'd learned in that first term, build the infrastructure to make sure that America didn't slip back into what I believe is the radical left agenda. And, and in that interim, the president and I, President Trump and I, and a few, and others, but, but I was one of his core kind of sounding boards. We started talking about his cabinet, probably 23, 24,

• 11:43Speaker 01

  if he was gonna win, who would go where? He loves to do this. He's like, "What about so-and-so in this role? And how about that person in this role?"

• 11:50Mike Rowe?

  Did you know him prior to Henry Chang?

• 11:53Speaker 01

  No, I, well, obviously from the first term. I was obviously, you know, his first domestic, or in his domestic policy chief. But, uh, but no, it was Jared Kushner and others. I'd done a lot of work in criminal justice reform. I'm a hardcore conservative, but it made no sense to me that 95% of those in jail are coming back out, and more than half of those are non-violent drug offenders. And if we just gave them a chance with training, and a chance to actually live a righteous life, that they would choose that. It's just they didn't really, a lot of them didn't have a chance. So, did a lot of changes in Texas on that, and closed a bunch of prisons, crime rate went way down. So, that's, I got a call on that from the first White House, because Jared Kushner was very interested in that, and ended up helping them build their deregulatory agenda, their tax cut

• 12:37Speaker 01

  agenda, because I'd done it all in Texas.

• 12:39Mike Rowe?

  What's that have to do with agriculture?

• 12:40Speaker 01

  Well, so this is where the story goes. So, building out what would be perhaps the president's cabinet if he were to win again, this is during the interim, and in all the conversations, and he would say, "You know, Brooke, let's just say we win. What do you think about energy? What do you think about education? You know what? Where, where are we in all this?" And I'd say, "Absolutely not. I, at this point now, have high school kids, and it just isn't, isn't in my, on my bingo card, and, and for right now, at least." And, anyway, he wins, the cabinet gets set, I don't think I've ever talked about this publicly, but the cabinet gets set, and, um, the final spot is agriculture.

• 13:21Speaker 01

  And he caused Thursday night, um, right before Thanksgiving, and, uh, right after we won, so November 5th is the election, this is probably the 18th or 19th of November, he's named everybody else. And he called me to talk about two of his announcements that day. Scott Turner was housing, who's wonderful, he should be on your show, he hasn't been, one of my dearest friends, and Pam Bondi for Attorney General. So, he called to talk about that, it was like at midnight, and, "Oh, isn't this great? You know, I'm getting such a great..." And he'd said-

• 13:49Mike Rowe?

  Midnight, your time? Texas time?

• 13:50Speaker 01

  Midnight, his time, 11 o'clock my time, the midnight Palm Beach time. And, uh, and he said, "Man, um, golly, would you really wish you'd think about ag?" And, of course, he knew I had some ag background, he knew I was an ag major-

• 14:04Mike Rowe?

  Did he say, "Golly"? I'm just trying to-

• 14:06Speaker 01

  He didn't say, "Golly." That was probably my answer.

• 14:09Mike Rowe?

  All right.

• 14:09Speaker 01

  But, uh, but anyway, and then-

• 14:11Mike Rowe?

  Golly, Brooke.

• 14:12Speaker 01

  I paused for a second, "Yeah, exactly. Brooke." Um, and the next thing I know, I'm the new Secretary of Agriculture. But, let me say this, Mike, it was not anything, I, I've never really planned much of it, it's not what I had ever thought about, but looking back now, it is the best, most righteous artist. Uh, but it's the honor of a lifetime to represent this way of life, right, to represent those who feed and fuel us. It's a national security issue at this point. My relationship with the president and with our full cabinet is such that I can work across the cabinet to get things done for our farmers and ranchers-

• 14:51Mike Rowe?

  What'd you learn from Future Farmers of America, and do you remember the oath you took in that organization?

• 14:56Speaker 01

  I remember, um, "Madam President, why are you stationed by the rising sun?" I'm stationed by the rising sun because it represents a new era in agriculture, an era of words, um, deeds, not just words, and blah, blah, blah. I can't do the whole thing, but, oh yeah, I know, it's here forever. Um-

• 15:14Mike Rowe?

  I mean, since we started with an oath, it strikes me, I spoke at the FFA National Convention-

• 15:19Speaker 01

  Oh, they love you. I saw that, I saw you.

• 15:21Mike Rowe?

  2008?

• 15:22Speaker 01

  Yes, I remember. I tried to get in touch with you after that, I thought you were so good.

• 15:26Mike Rowe?

  You didn't try that hard.

• 15:27Speaker 01

  I actually did.

• 15:27Mike Rowe?

  You didn't try that hard.

• 15:28Speaker 01

  I did, I tried to get you to come speak at one of my events in Texas, and it was like, eight million dollars, his speaking fee was maybe 10 million dollars, I'm like, "He's way out of my league."

• 15:37Mike Rowe?

  We had three easy payments that we would have extended-

• 15:40Speaker 01

  I know, right?

• 15:41Mike Rowe?

  With, with very, very attractive interest. No, you know what, you know what killed me about that?

• 15:46Speaker 01

  Those are your people.

• 15:48Mike Rowe?

  Well, I mean, there were 20,000 of them, at least, in that auditorium. And right before I went on stage, one of the organizers came up, and I was looking through a brief, you know, and on the first page, it literally said, and this broke my heart, I better break yours too, it said, um, "The Future Farmers of America is now officially referring to itself as FFA."

• 16:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:13Mike Rowe?

  And I said, "Why, um-"

• 16:15Speaker 01

  It's, it's not-

• 16:16Mike Rowe?

  Why are you doing that?

• 16:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:18Mike Rowe?

  Long story short, it's like, "Look, our organization depends on our ability to recruit." And the word "farmer" had actually become a pejorative, or an impediment-

• 16:29Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 16:29Mike Rowe?

  -to their ability to recruit, because it just came with so many old stigmas and stereotypes.

• 16:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 16:36Mike Rowe?

  And I mentioned Dirty Jobs, because fundamentally, that show was a tribute to agriculture and mining.

• 16:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:41Mike Rowe?

  That's what it was.

• 16:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:42Mike Rowe?

  So, my question is, what happens to a country who forgets where its food comes from?

• 16:51Mike Rowe?

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• 17:31Mike Rowe?

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• 18:16Mike Rowe?

  wireless company that looks after our vets in a meaningful way. I mean, really, what's not to like? PureTalk.com/row.

• 18:39Speaker 01

  That country fails to exist. It becomes a, becomes a scribe to a country like China.

• 18:47Speaker 01

  It bows to the altar of Russia. It becomes, you know, the newest threat from my perspective is Brazil. And it is a country that no longer knows freedom. That's how important this is.

• 19:01Mike Rowe?

  What's Brazil doing?

• 19:02Speaker 01

  Brazil has China through Brazil arguably has now taken our soybean market, our corn market, our cotton market, and controls about half of our beef processing in America. There's a lot of challenges. It isn't just Brazil, but we have offshored American agriculture for the last 30 years. And if we don't reverse that trajectory, China's buying our farmland. China owns our biggest seed company. Half of our fertilizer, we rely on Russia. And I mean, this is unsustainable.

• 19:33Mike Rowe?

  What is going on right now with fertilizer?

• 19:34Speaker 01

  It's unsustainable. Well, we're with the good news. The bad news is prices are high, not as high as they were in Biden, even with the Iranian conflict, but they are too high. But the good news is it has allowed us to shine a light on how we've offshored that fertilizer and we got to fix it. So two months ago, I had Chris Wright talk about working across our cabinet, our Energy Secretary and Howard Lutnick, our Commerce Secretary, both with pots of money for energy. And I said fertilizer is energy. And I called the Army Corps of Engineers, great, great people over there, General Bitch Graham. I said, instead of your two-year permitting process to get new fertilizer plants, we need about 45 days. And they said, we're in. And so a few weeks ago, we just announced the largest ammonia plant is breaking ground in about 30 days in Louisiana.

• 20:18Speaker 01

  The largest potash plant in the world, ammonia in the world, potash in the world is breaking ground soon after that. Also in Louisiana, we have mass, about 90 plants, small to big, going in all across the country as a result of this offshoring to now to reshore back to our country. So we're going to solve it.

• 20:36Mike Rowe?

  Please explain to, you know, Joe Blow from Minneapolis, why he should give a damn about an ammonia plant?

• 20:45Speaker 01

  In Louisiana.

• 20:46Mike Rowe?

  Yeah. Make it relevant.

• 20:47Speaker 01

  Make it make sense.

• 20:48Mike Rowe?

  Yeah.

• 20:49Speaker 01

  Today, nine out of 10 of our farmers are not economically prosperous without the government stepping in, nine out of 10. And Mike, everyone in America should understand that the minute we start relying on China or Brazil or other countries for our food supply, that is the minute that we lose our freedom, period, full stop. And we live in the greatest country in the history of the world. We're celebrating our 250th birthday. The challenge, though, is we don't play the 100-year game like a China or Russia does. We play the two-year game, right? Now, this is why I love my boss so much, because the second term is about the 100-year plan. He's not worried. I mean, he is worried. We want to obviously keep the House. We would be a disaster if we have to move into impeachment full time.

• 21:34Speaker 01

  And we want to keep the White House in two and a half years so we can keep doing this righteous work. But he's also making decisions that most politicians under our political system would not make because they are short-term pain for these long-term decisions that he's making. But I believe in him and his vision so strongly.

• 21:54Mike Rowe?

  All right, wait. Nine out of 10 people who feed 330 million people three times a day. 90% of farmers can't survive without government help.

• 22:12Speaker 01

  That's right. And that's, that comes in a lot of ways, right? A lot of loans, a lot of low-interest loans, getting from one season to the next and the next, you know, but the government USDA comes in and pays for fencing and things. You know, it's interesting, before this job, I'm a very pure free marketer, right? The government should be this big. We should be doing military and building roads.

• 22:33Mike Rowe?

  You know, if I can get you out of your shell, I think you could do extraordinary things.

• 22:41Speaker 01

  I know, this is kind of a problem, right?

• 22:43Mike Rowe?

  I mean, no, listen, this is just a quick sidebar. I've avoided DC all my life.

• 22:50Speaker 01

  Yes, fair.

• 22:51Mike Rowe?

  And, and politics.

• 22:52Speaker 01

  That's legit.

• 22:52Mike Rowe?

  In general.

• 22:53Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 22:53Mike Rowe?

  But this administration has paid attention to my foundation in ways that's new to me.

• 22:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:59Mike Rowe?

  So I've had a chance to talk with a lot of people, including all the names you dropped earlier and a few others.

• 23:06Speaker 01

  You're amazing.

• 23:07Mike Rowe?

  I will say, to a man and a woman, you guys work.

• 23:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:13Mike Rowe?

  You guys.

• 23:14Speaker 01

  Seven days a week.

• 23:15Mike Rowe?

  Seven days a week, late at night.

• 23:18Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 23:18Mike Rowe?

  The fact that that call came at midnight that you were talking about before, it doesn't, it doesn't shock me. But the other thing is, a lot of people in your orbit are left going concerns.

• 23:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:33Mike Rowe?

  Like big consequential businesses.

• 23:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:36Mike Rowe?

  To do this.

• 23:37Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 23:38Mike Rowe?

  So, I mean, when I say out of your, obviously I'm joking, but I mean, you, back to the oath.

• 23:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:46Mike Rowe?

  You must give a damn.

• 23:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:47Mike Rowe?

  On a level that really has not much to do with, with money.

• 23:52Speaker 01

  Mike, we sit in that cabinet room, we had our 12th meeting on Wednesday. We sit in that room before the media comes in, before the cameras come screaming in, and it's just us. It's just us and the President, the Vice President. And you can feel the respect and the love and the, just the, the family. We, this hopefully doesn't sound too nutty, but I feel like it's 1776 again, and we are in a revolution and we are fighting for the very soul of freedom and for our country. And I think I speak for all of us when I say that, that we feel it and we feel it's this moment in American history that may never happen again.

• 24:33Speaker 01

  And if we don't get it right, we don't spend every waking hour of every day for four years getting it right, then our country will be lost. And the President's the one who leads the way on that, but we feel it very, very deeply.

• 24:44Mike Rowe?

  Well, the President, for whom this library is named, I believe, I mean, he was the one who said it, right? It's a generation away.

• 24:53Speaker 01

  It is. 1964.

• 24:55Mike Rowe?

  Always a generation away.

• 24:56Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yep.

• 24:58Mike Rowe?

  And earlier you said that food security was national security. National security is freedom.

• 25:03Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 25:04Mike Rowe?

  And so.

• 25:06Speaker 01

  That's why it matters.

• 25:07Mike Rowe?

  Yeah. So what are we going to do to get more farmers less reliant?

• 25:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:14Mike Rowe?

  More farmers, more independent. Are you worried about the family farm? Are you worried about the giant?

• 25:19Speaker 01

  I lose sleep over the family farm. I lose sleep over it. The consolidation that's happened in agriculture by big agriculture, and I want to be careful. Listen, these big American companies, I'll be real ugly about the non-American companies, but the big American companies, they do feed the world and they are built and run by great Americans, entrepreneurs, they employ a lot of people, they've kept a lot of farms and businesses sometimes, but it's that family farm that we've lost tens of thousands of. If we don't open the market back up to this next generation, perhaps first or second generation farmers, then not only do we, I believe, we lose the national security, the freedom, we also lose this entire way of life.

• 26:03Speaker 01

  And can I give you an example?

• 26:05Mike Rowe?

  Sure.

• 26:05Speaker 01

  That hopefully will inspire people that are listening. I went to Albuquerque, New Mexico a couple of months ago. Two brothers in their 30s, Dad's a doctor, Mom's a professor, I think at the University of New Mexico. They're very highly trained and educated, but they decided they wanted to be farmers. No farming in their background at all. And so 10 years ago, they bought three acres of basically desert. It's New Mexico. They built a little warehouse and one on top of the other, they're growing organic heads of lettuce. And every year, they produce 250,000 heads of lettuce, the two of them, and they have six employees. And they support their families, they support their six employees' families, they sell healthy lettuce to the local school.

• 26:49Speaker 01

  And that's the way, right? We have to continue being the breadbasket. We have to continue supporting our big guys. I think that's really important. But there is with this Make America Healthy Again movement, with Bobby and I, Bobby's now like my best buddy, Bobby and I work very hand in glove together every day. How do we get Americans to eat real food, to eat locally grown food, to solve for our chronic health crisis in this country?

• 27:14Mike Rowe?

  Are you surprised, by the way?

• 27:15Speaker 01

  The farmer's the middle of that.

• 27:17Mike Rowe?

  Are you surprised that the two of you have become?

• 27:20Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 27:21Mike Rowe?

  The two of you?

• 27:22Speaker 01

  Also not on my bingo card, to be fair. We were both voted on and sworn in on the same day, just happenstance, maybe providential, but I'd say happenstance, coincidence. February 13th, 2024, the very next day, Politico, which is a left-leaning, you know, media outlet in Washington, ran a huge story showing a wedding cake about the first divorce that's going to happen in the Trump administration. And at the top is me and my, all my big, huge hair and Bobby on the other side with a, with a knife coming right down the middle of the wedding cake with us falling apart.

• 27:55Mike Rowe?

  Right.

• 27:56Speaker 01

  In fact, the exact opposite has happened. He has been the best partner. We don't agree on everything. You know, he comes from a very different world in many ways than I come from. But he fundamentally understands that agriculture is the path to making America healthy again. And the farmers are the only way he's going to be able to do it. So he's been remarkable. It's been an incredible partnership.

• 28:19Mike Rowe?

  How do you think about the level of, I'm not even sure what the right, it's not food uncertainty. It's the, it's this suspicion, I think, that a lot of people who kind of pay attention and who want to do right by their kids, we just don't know what to buy anymore.

• 28:35Speaker 01

  Right.

• 28:36Mike Rowe?

  I mean, thank God the ingredients are there, but where's the interpreter? To help explain what this means? And, and what is it with the seed oils? And why is sugar in everything? Why are we eating 200 pounds of sugar a year? And, and so I hadn't really thought about it, but it's obvious that Maha Agenda and your office.

• 28:55Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 28:56Mike Rowe?

  Are hand in glove. And before you answer, I know you've got a flight to catch.

• 28:59Speaker 01

  I do.

• 29:00Mike Rowe?

  And you got to tell me when you got to go, because I'll, I'll say, you know, the sun goes down and your people will freak out.

• 29:05Speaker 01

  Four minutes.

• 29:06Mike Rowe?

  You've got four minutes.

• 29:07Speaker 01

  Four minutes.

• 29:07Mike Rowe?

  All right, all right. Say something unforgettable in four minutes.

• 29:10Speaker 01

  Say something unforgettable in four minutes. So the Maha, the healthy food, the three out of four young Americans who have chronic health, prediabetic, who can't pass the military readiness test. These are existential issues for our country. But the good news with this moment in American history, with this president at our 250, is we're actually making status quo breaking, busting steps to change the country. And I believe perhaps the world forever. And I mentioned 1776, I don't say it lightly. I do believe there are moments in American history where you're at this sort of, you know, cross point, are we going to go towards, as Reagan said, this thousand years of darkness, which is where arguably we were headed?

• 29:55Speaker 01

  Or do you choose light and freedom? Sometimes that's hard. You know, we're fighting big media, we're fighting big business, we're fighting big government. We're around every corner, we're battling. But I do believe we're winning. And I think that's what's so encouraging. And listen, the work that you do for years now, you were way ahead of us. You know, Trump came in and said, I, I believe in the worker and the tradesman, the skilled trade. But up until that point, you were kind of the only dude who was saying, not everybody needs to go to college, right? Like, what are we doing for our skilled workforce? And how are we supporting that? And what kind of infrastructure are we building for that? I remember it very well when you started this, what, 25 years ago?

• 30:35Mike Rowe?

  About that. No, it's about 23, the show went on the air. But I'll tell you, when it, when it really started for me was at Future Farmers of America.

• 30:41Speaker 01

  Unbelievable.

• 30:42Mike Rowe?

  It was, it was standing backstage and hearing that the preeminent youth-based organization to magnify and elevate farmers had come to the conclusion that that word had become an impediment to their own prime directive. And that's when I was like, holy crap. If that's happening in ag, because I'd been saying the same thing about the skilled trades and all the stigmas and the stereotypes that have conspired to leave the country with the feeling that that kind of work, those kinds of jobs are not for my kids.

• 31:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:15Mike Rowe?

  And all that farming thing, whatever they do, God bless them, yeah. But we're so spoiled.

• 31:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:21Mike Rowe?

  We're so used to seeing the shelves full, we're so used to seeing the lights come on, we flick the switch and the crap go away, we flush the toilet. It's just there, you know? And so, look, I'm, I'm with you. I'm, I'm optimistic. It's a great country. I would just say in closing that the people you mentioned, who you feel like you're fighting with, and you clearly are, I don't think they see themselves as the bad guy.

• 31:49Speaker 01

  No, I agree with that.

• 31:50Mike Rowe?

  And I think that the thing we can do to make a view like this, you know,

• 31:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:55Mike Rowe?

  to earn it is to somehow or another, I don't know how to do it either, but we can't possibly be as divided as we, we can't.

• 32:05Speaker 01

  Let me answer that. When you take the key issues and you take off, I've been doing this for a long time. You take off the R or the D or the blue or the red. 80% of Americans do want a secure border. 80% of Americans do believe in a healthcare system where the patient and the doctor are the center of it. 80% of Americans do think that the government is too big and they're taking too much of our tax dollars. We have become so divisive because of our system. And again, the best system in the world, but imperfect. The minute we can start just talking about policies outside of the noise and the elections and the campaigns and all of that, that is when we are, I believe, at our best.

• 32:46Speaker 01

  I think that's what Reagan really stood for and, and did a remarkable job. I'll finish with this. One of the most inspiring things I've ever read that has actually colored my life for, since I was a teenager, is an interview that Reagan gave right after he left the White House. And I'll never forget it. I probably read it, he left in 88, I was a junior in high school. And, and I read it and it said, I walk into a room and I immediately look to see who's sitting around the table disagrees with me the most, or has said the ugliest things about me, or has been the biggest obfuscator for what I'm trying to achieve. And that's who I go sit by every time. And I thought, that's so good. And that's true. And that's how you change a lot of this, I think.

• 33:30Speaker 01

  So we're working on it. But at the same time, you have to battle for what's right. And that's what we're doing.

• 33:35Mike Rowe?

  Team of rivals.

• 33:36Speaker 01

  Yes, exactly.

• 33:37Mike Rowe?

  Well, 80% of your security detail says, time to go.

• 33:42Speaker 01

  We've got a whole cadre, don't we?

• 33:44Mike Rowe?

  Of failings, I believe it is. I, I really appreciate your time.

• 33:48Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 33:48Mike Rowe?

  I'm sorry it took so long to do this.

• 33:50Speaker 01

  Oh, it's my honor.

• 33:51Mike Rowe?

  It's a shame you couldn't afford me way back when.

• 33:53Speaker 01

  I know. You're very expensive.

• 33:55Mike Rowe?

  I am pricey.

• 33:56Speaker 01

  The suede jacket basically says everything you need to know. You got to charge really high fees to look like this, right?

• 34:03Mike Rowe?

  This came from my own cow. Killed it myself, ate it, and now I'm wearing it.

• 34:06Speaker 01

  Well, even, that's my love language. Yeah, that's, that's my language. Thank you, Mike.

• 34:11Mike Rowe?

  You're awesome.

• 34:12Speaker 01

  Really great to be here. Thanks, everybody.

• 34:14Mike Rowe?

  Thank you.

• 34:14Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 34:19Mike Rowe?

  Remember, even though we just said goodbye, the secretary is not really gone. Our conversation will continue right after this with a discussion on the latest presidential proclamation to allow 300,000 metric tons of foreign ground beef into this country. Can't wait to hear what she has to say about that, right after this.

• 34:44Mike Rowe?

  I do not like the way AI is impacting the publishing industry, or the music industry, or frankly, anything artistic. What I do like are companies that are using AI to make people more productive. And that's exactly what Diggs is doing. And the entire construction industry is starting to pay attention. Diggs has built essentially a software tool powered by AI that keeps builders from drowning in a sea of disconnected information. It simplifies everything by taking your blueprints and your takeoffs, homeowner approvals, all that stuff. It puts it together. So when you need to know the exact tile option a homeowner approved two months ago,

• 35:27Mike Rowe?

  you don't have to call three different people or scream at your dashboard. You just ask Diggs and the AI finds it in two seconds. This technology is saving builders 40 to 50 hours per project, which is why Diggs is expanding like crazy. Full disclosure, I've invested in this company personally because I know Diggs is going to save builders and homeowners a lot of time and a lot of money. That's not investment advice, obviously, but it is a personal endorsement. Whether you're having a home built or whether you're a builder by trade, go to digs.com/mike. See how they can simplify your life today and get 40% off for your first three months.

• 36:09Mike Rowe?

  That's digs, D-I-G-S dot com slash Mike. Can you dig it? First of all, thank you sincerely for jumping back on. I so loved the conversation we had a couple of months ago, but

• 36:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:25Mike Rowe?

  as you obviously know, the news, it just keeps breaking and

• 36:32Mike Rowe?

  I just had to get your take on a couple other, a couple other thoughts.

• 36:36Speaker 01

  No, I'm so happy. This is really awesome for me, too. So, no, anytime. And now that I've got my iPad set up, I've got the, all the apps set up and I don't need to blur the background anymore. They're in good shape.

• 36:49Mike Rowe?

  Well, regarding the background, what in the world am I looking at? Did somebody rob the MoMA or was it the Louvre?

• 36:57Speaker 01

  I know. Listen, Mike, this is very, very, um, big time, expensive, fine art we have behind me. This is the portrait my daughter did of me when she was five, which I think is lovely. My husband says it looks like it's out of a murder, a horror movie, but I think it's amazing.

• 37:17Mike Rowe?

  It looks like, what's the famous painting, The Scream?

• 37:20Speaker 01

  Yes, I think that's right. I think she's on to something. I've got an apple tree, which seems very on brand, since I'm now the Secretary of Agriculture, from my now college student Jake, but he painted that when he was three. So, uh, yes, here's some shoes, the best part of me. This is, uh, my daughter. She likes her feet because she can pretty much do anything and can walk and gets to go work in the field. So, uh, it's all very on brand, maybe from a long time ago, but there you go.

• 37:50Mike Rowe?

  Well, Brooke, we have, in our prior conversation, already established your undeniable humanity and your devotion to your family, and I think all of that's terrific.

• 38:00Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 38:01Mike Rowe?

  But what did happen, I'll cover this in the preamble as well, but I have been absolutely inundated with phone calls from farmers and ranchers, many of whom I met during the Dirty Jobs days, many of whom I'm close to today, just talking to me about what feels like a real challenge in your world and something that's going to impact everyone who shares my addiction to chewing and swallowing things. So what's going on in the wide world of ground beef? What's new? And let's just call it ground beef for dummies, since everybody's asking me about this. What has the president done with this proclamation?

• 38:44Mike Rowe?

  What does it mean for consumers? And of course, what does it mean for ranchers?

• 38:49Speaker 01

  Well, first of all, I really appreciate the opportunity to come back on and talk about this. Uh, there are, is an extremely complicated issue set, but some really important top lines. Number one, America makes, grows, uh, through years of research in genetics, we have the very best beef in the world, period, full stop. Everybody wants, uh, what we produce in America. Number two, Americans eat the most beef of anywhere in the world. We consume 13 million metric tons every single year. That probably is a meaningless number to most, but 13 million metric tons is a whole bunch of, uh, of beef for Americans. And by the way, that's only growing year over year.

• 39:33Speaker 01

  Uh, so that's number two. Number three, of the 13 million metric tons that we consume, we have always imported between two and three million of those metric tons. So what's that, 10 to 15% roughly that we've always imported? A lot of that comes across the border from Mexico, uh, as lean cattle, but a lot of it also comes across in box beef. Most of that, by the way, is the lean. That's the ground beef that we're going to talk about. So that's number three. Uh, number four, through the Make America Healthy Again work that Bobby Kennedy and I have been partnering on, we flipped the dietary guidelines. We have been putting nutrient-dense, real food back at the center of policymaking in Washington DC.

• 40:18Speaker 01

  I think you and I talked about that when we were in person together, uh, a while, a little while ago. And in so doing, we have shifted, I believe, in a historical way, the way that a lot of Americans are thinking about what they eat, where they purchase it from, et cetera. Last year, 2025, we saw an increase by 10% in the purchase of fresh and real food. I mean, these are numbers that, A, historically changed the, having the least unhealthy population in the developed world here in America with chronic disease, um, forever. But it also, hopefully, also changes the trend of farming and ranching in America

• 41:02Speaker 01

  that you and I are so passionate about, that puts the farmer and the rancher back at the center of policymaking and that Americans like me, with these four kids, all the families and really everybody, are now, I think, maybe a little more astute in what they buy, how they buy it, what they're feeding their family.

• 41:20Mike Rowe?

  Can I just ask you to quickly frame to maybe the state of the herd? Cause I think people are a little confused. You know, you read about the screw worm. That had an impact. You read about drought, that had an impact. So from a supply-demand standpoint, is there anything people should know about how the table's been set?

• 41:41Speaker 01

  That's right. So my fifth and final point, and, uh, very, um, very aligned with you, Mike, is that we are the lowest cattle herd in American history, at least since we've been tracking this for the last, uh, 75 years. And so while demand is higher than it's ever been, supply is lower than it's been, at least since we've been tracking. And there are a lot of reasons for that. You mentioned drought is correct. Number two is the screw worm, which is a flesh-eating parasite that devastated the herds in the 1950s and 60s.

• 42:14Mike Rowe?

  A terrible name, by the way. I mean, it like, in the long history of parasites, anything deemed a screw worm.

• 42:20Speaker 01

  A screw worm.

• 42:21Mike Rowe?

  It's gonna be the bad guy, no matter how you slice it.

• 42:23Speaker 01

  Which is actually a fly, a female fly, by the way, that lands in an open wound and then, without being treated, um, will eat that animal up. So it devastated the herds in the 50s and 60s because we thought it was eradicated because of the illicit movement of people and cattle during 2021 to 2025. You know, millions of people moved up through South America, Central America, Mexico. The screw worm actually made its way back. As a result of that, we closed all the ports last year, about 14 months ago. So stopped about a million and a half head of cattle that would normally have come across for slaughter. Um, we kept on the south side of the border to prepare, um, and, and be ready when New World Screwworm got here and then eventually eradicated again. The good news on that is screw worm did hit our shores

• 43:08Speaker 01

  about four months ago. We only have three active cases right now. Uh, to compare in 1972, we had 90,000 active cases in Texas alone. So, uh, we're beating that too. I know we don't have time to get into that, but that's all good news for the long term. We are in a perfect storm in America as it relates to ground beef and certainly one of the most important proteins that Americans eat. And so the president, in reviewing all options, we all know the inflation numbers under the last administration, food at the very top of that inflation went up about 25% under Joe Biden. Ground beef under Joe Biden went up about 27% in those couple of years.

• 43:51Speaker 01

  By the way, the third point, screw worm drought, but also the left, they think cattle cause climate change, right? So the Democrats were shrinking grazing, et cetera, were not supporting the cattle ranchers. So we are at a point where ground beef is very, very high. For a lot of families, it is out of reach. And the president decided, after a lot of conversation from me and others over the course of a year, that lifting the tariff rate quota, so an additional 25% charge on imported beef from certain countries, ground beef for the most part, that for 90 days, he was going to lift that additional 25% quota to get more ground beef in the supply chain, to again, hopefully bring the cost down.

• 44:33Speaker 01

  So that's a very long explanation. We could go on and on, but that's basically the bottom line.

• 44:38Mike Rowe?

  Well, I do want to dig into some of it. I think, I mean, just on a personal level, I'm kind of fascinated about what goes on in your brain, knowing you and knowing your devotion to farmers and ranchers. You're in a position, though, where your primary constituency, I would assume, are consumers.

• 44:58Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 44:58Mike Rowe?

  So talk a little bit about, like, what I'm hearing is kind of a frustration, I guess, from ranchers who also see themselves as consumers.

• 45:08Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 45:10Mike Rowe?

  Who are wondering, maybe, oh, maybe this is the better question. What's the long-term goal? To what degree do you want the United States to be reliant solely on domestic beef? And like skipping over these, you know, these externalities, these events that happen that kind of forces to make adjustments? What's the big goal for, call it, meat independence?

• 45:36Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, I often say, where there is beef, there is freedom, right? So, uh, so, and this is a much larger conversation I'd love to have with you when we've got a little more time, but we became a net importer of food in 2023, after 200 and what, 47 years of, uh, of being the world's breadbasket. This has been decades in the making. We'll point a finger at the last administration, but it goes way beyond the last administration. The consolidation, the purchase of our farmland by foreign interests, including foreign adversaries, the purchase of our seed companies by China, the purchase of our processing companies by Brazil. We have a massive national security issue in front of us.

• 46:17Speaker 01

  And it isn't just that we need a stronger military. It isn't just that we need to have a secure border. If we don't have farm security, food security, we lose the American dream, full stop. At the same time, we've lost 600,000 ranchers and farmers since 1985, 600,000. Uh, again, we are at kind of a crossroads in American history. And for me, my number one constituent, obviously, is the consumer, but I would say...

• 46:48Speaker 01

  Parallel to that is the farmer and the rancher. Because without their work and without reversing that trend of losing these ranchers and farmers for a lot of reasons, then we lose America. I mean, it's that, and you've made this point on trade and hard work and all the things. I mean, we're meeting the moment, I believe, to make sure that we have another 250 years of American freedom. But if we don't get this right, right now, I don't know that that is a secure idea. So that's how important this is. The long-term effort to rebuild the herd, to open up the aperture for more farmers and ranchers, first generation, to get into this business, to incentivize them.

• 47:31Speaker 01

  You know, the conversation you and I had, Mike, still sticks with me. One of the main reasons you decided to get into the, this sort of conversation a couple decades ago, was because my beloved organization, National, the Future Farmers of America, decided to change their name to National FFA, because they didn't want to turn anyone away with the word farmer in the title.

• 47:52Mike Rowe?

  The F-word.

• 47:53Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 47:54Mike Rowe?

  Yeah, farming and fracking. What the heck?

• 47:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. By the way, I'm working to get that back, but again, another conversation. But if we don't reverse the trend, and if we don't signal to our ranchers, to our farmers, that we've got their back, that we don't think you are the enemy, in fact, we think you are the central component to saving the country, that is what I will continue to do. I know we started this conversation because you'd gotten some feedback based on the president's decision to import 300,000 metric tons without a tariff rate quota of lean beef. Of course, 300,000 imported, think of this again as part of the 3 million that we always import. I don't think a lot of people realize we do import a lot of beef already. But understanding that that signal was slightly mixed, or not slightly, maybe very mixed

• 48:42Speaker 01

  to our producers, wait a minute, we thought this administration was 100% in support. And the bottom line is, we are, and what we are doing, building out mid-sized processing, opening up 5 million acres in grazing, extending the young farmer definition, changing the heifer retention tax incentives. I mean, this is all gets a little wonky, so I don't want to bore people, but, but there will never be a more pro-rancher president, administration, and agenda than this one. But the president's decision, again, was the short term, we have to provide some relief to the consumer.

• 49:18Mike Rowe?

  What then do you say? Because if I've got my timeline right, you were headed up, I think you were going to the Iowa State Fair, like, the day the president did this. You're in Iowa, in front of a bunch of people, many of whom are farmers and ranchers, and I would imagine a big chunk of them are supporters of this administration. What is the simple encapsulated message to a rancher who sees him or herself as a patriot, who wants to do right by the country, who is trying to make a living? What do you say to them when they say, how did I not just take it in the neck?

• 49:57Speaker 01

  Well, I think the single most important thing is that the president has said over and over, no one has been more loyal to him than rural America and than our farmers and ranchers. And the effort to deconstruct an entire system that the Biden team and the Democrats before had been building for years, which is eating lab-grown meat, so there's no climate change, it is closing down grazing, it is really offshoring all of our production as much as possible.

• 50:37Mike Rowe?

  The Impossible Burger turned out to be kind of impossible.

• 50:40Speaker 01

  Yes, yes. Versus this administration that has opened up markets around the world, has opened up grazing, is deconstructing the, the big ag consolidation, is, is making sure that all Americans understand that without these most essential of Americans, there is no freedom. And this president gets that. So I have spent the last year and a half, the best part of my job, it is not flying on Air Force One, it is not having a fancy office on the National Mall, it is not, you know,

• 51:13Mike Rowe?

  Collecting fine art?

• 51:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, collecting fine art. It is not that. It is everywhere I go, even the hard conversations, the opportunity to look and be with and build friendships with these farmers and ranchers around the country, and hear from them, and let them know that we've got your back, but give me your ideas. Honestly, Mike, I've done massive amounts of policy plans, rollouts, you know, whether it's against lawfare, building, rebuilding the herd, opening up the markets around the world for our rowcroppers, whatever it is. A lot of those ideas have not come from Washington, not come from the bureaucrats, not come from the lobby, they've come directly from farmers themselves.

• 51:57Speaker 01

  It's made our USDA a little bit different, is that I'm not in Washington that much, I'm actually on the, on the road and in the fields. But that's made a tremendous difference, and, and I hope that they feel that and will continue to do so.

• 52:09Mike Rowe?

  I got two more questions. I don't want to keep you, I know you've got a country to run and so forth, but anecdotally, you should just know, on this podcast, over the last, I don't know, six months maybe, the number of guests who have come on to talk in fairly urgent terms about our relationship with food, not just where our food comes from, but what's in it and what it's doing to us. And I know you're up to your neck in the Maha movement, but I just wanted to tell you that whether it's Alex Clark, who is on right now, or Dr. Philip Ivedia, who came on a few months ago to talk about, I mean, that whole episode was called Meat is Medicine.

• 52:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:50Mike Rowe?

  And it really feels to me, just as an observer, that there is something akin to an awakening, or maybe an enlightenment, around the stuff we're eating. And people are really starting to pay attention, and I'm just wondering if I'm hallucinating any of this.

• 53:09Speaker 01

  No, that's, I know we started there. I'll loop back to that, because as difficult of a moment that we find ourselves in, you know, whether it's diesel being, you know, at, at record highs because of the Iranian and Ukraine and Russian conflict, you know, the cost of inputs, fertilizer, against all odds, we have brought down for the most part, we've still got to get the cost of seed down. I know interest rates, the president's very focused on this, but the profit margins are still way too skinny, if they're at all, they're there at all for farmers. But what I have seen, to your point, is I am so bullish, and I'm so encouraged, that

• 53:52Speaker 01

  we are going to be able to move out of this moment that's lasted now years, maybe decades, where farmers are reliant on a check from the government to keep going, and that's not what they want, right? They want to sell their goods for money, they don't want a check from USDA and Farm Service Agency. I sincerely believe, you can't fix this in a year or two years, but I sincerely believe, when we walk out of here in two more years, we will have opened up the world markets like never before. I mean, even just today, corn is at a high, wheat is at a high, we're bringing cotton back, we're opening up the forests again for our timber farmers, we're reshoring so much manufacturing, including fertilizer, et cetera.

• 54:37Speaker 01

  Like, we are making such fundamental, long-term change right now, that circles back to the way that we used to eat food in this country, where you would buy it.

• 54:48Mike Rowe?

  Where are we with potash right now?

• 54:51Speaker 01

  Well, so there are six different fertilizers that the farmers use. We are reshoring almost all of them at this point. You bring up potash, because the president did just truth this a couple days ago. We've relied on Canada for a lot of our potash for a really long time, the president doesn't want to rely on anyone anymore. Doesn't mean we won't sell them our goods, and we won't buy their goods, but we shouldn't be reliant on China for ammonia, or on Russia for nitrates, or whatever it is, that potash is now a big deal. We are mining, again, for that, but again, that takes a while to get mines online, years. And until then, the president's looking at other areas around the world where we can get our potash, and not just rely on Canada, one of those is Belarus, so we're working with that right now.

• 55:35Speaker 01

  But good news on fertilizer all around, even with the Strait of Hormuz being compromised over the last six or eight months.

• 55:41Mike Rowe?

  Before I ask my last question, from one of my favorite ranchers, is there anything you want to say that you think people should better understand about the processing business of meat and the supply chain in general? What Just again, ground beef for dummies. What does the average Joe need to understand that goes beyond the slaughterhouse? That is impacting all of this?

• 56:08Speaker 01

  Well, first of all, it's an incredibly complex supply chain. Right? You have the ranchers that raise the cattle and think about you've got a, a, a brand new heifer who will eventually be the, the tool by which we'll get the calf that they'll eventually be slaughtered and, you know, go into the food supply chain. Mike, that's four years. That's four years from when that heifer is born, bred, throws a calf, that calf goes to slaughter, four years. So you just think about from that, the amount of investment our ranchers have up until that point when that calf finally gets into the food supply chain. Then they go to a stalker, then they go to a feedlot, then they go to a processing plant, then they go to a packaging, then they go to retail.

• 56:51Speaker 01

  So you've got this massively complex supply chain. And in the middle of it, you've got the processor. And I know you've probably heard of this and we may have spoken about it, but right now there are four processors that control about 85% of the market. And two of those are not even American companies. Two of them are Brazilian. So there's a lot of things we have to fix, but one of the most important is that deconsolidation so that these ranchers have more options, midsize, small term, small time processing, more direct to consumer, the ability to sell across state lines, the ability to take the middleman out. That will support the rancher. It'll also mean healthier food getting on the plates because it's closer. Um, you know, the, the food that's raised closer to you is the food that's going to

• 57:35Speaker 01

  be healthier and, and more fresh. And you talked about that at the beginning, the renaissance, I think that we're under the resurgence of serving healthier food. And I know we haven't talked about SNAP, didn't have time for the food stamp program that I run as well at USDA, but the changes that we have made there, no more junk food, no more, no more soda, right? But also on the back end, the retailers in America who take that SNAP dollar from those people who use food stamps now have to stock 28 healthy items versus 12 before we got here and jelly doesn't count as a fruit anymore, et cetera. They have to stock real healthy food. So it's this full, not just the supply chain in beef, but it's this full kind of chain

• 58:17Speaker 01

  that we're working from beginning to end to get healthier, affordable food onto everyone's plate in this country while rebuilding our agriculture community.

• 58:26Mike Rowe?

  I think about what we feed our troops. I think about what we feed our kids, Lunchables, no offense, but you know, how a piece of pizza microwaved and slapped on a tray. I'm glad you're on it. This is my last question. I know you got a jam. I know a guy named Ben Spell. He's actually a former musician who got into the ranching business and full disclosure, he runs Good Ranchers, they're a sponsor of this podcast. I talk to him all the time about this, you know? I said, look, I'm going to be talking to the Secretary of Agriculture. What's on your mind? And I thought he was going to give me a whole list of truly ranch centric, you know, what are we going to do? How can you help me?

• 59:06Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 59:07Mike Rowe?

  He only asked this one question and I'm going to read it exactly as he asked it because I think it led to the formation of his whole business. It has to do with truth and advertising. Here it is.

• 59:18Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 59:19Mike Rowe?

  Secretary Rollins, American ranchers put years of work into raising cattle here. USDA just made this, uh, year made quote, "product of USA labeling more truthful, but the label is still voluntary. If shoppers can't consistently tell American beef from imported beef at the meat counter, how can ranchers earn the value of raising it here? What's the next step toward giving families that information?" I love the fact that a rancher is asking me to ask you a question that fundamentally impacts the consumer.

• 59:59Speaker 01

  It's an existential question from my perspective. If we're really going to support American ranchers, then that support comes from them being able to and requiring labels that especially come in from other countries. The mandatory country of origin labeling is what he's referring to. When the president signed our pro rancher executive order a couple of weeks ago, that was front and center. By the way, the first USDA secretary to get on the record and the first president to be on the record in support of a mandatory label for beef coming in. The challenge is Congress has to pass it. It's a congressional action, but with the president leaning in and with me leaning

• 1:00:43Speaker 01

  in, I do believe we will get there. It made it out of committee in the farm bill that's at the Senate right now. There is some complication that from my home state of Texas and some of my producers here that have for five and six generations depended on Mexican beef, as we've talked about moving across the border. Um, sorry, that's my college daughter calling. I'll call her as soon as we finish.

• 1:01:03Mike Rowe?

  She's probably working on her next great piece of art.

• 1:01:06Speaker 01

  Yes, exactly, exactly. But we are 100% with the American rancher on that. And for our more southern ranchers that are nervous about that because they rely on the back and forth across the border and have for generations, we will solve for that full stop. The way I am approaching this, Mike, and let your rancher know that as Congress continues to move this, we're working to light a fire, that I believe, we're working through this right now, but maybe breaking news for your show, that I believe there's a world where we can USDA food, we have food safety inspection at USDA, 10,000 safety inspectors.

• 1:01:47Speaker 01

  FDA does most of the food, but USDA, my crew does meat, poultry, eggs and things like that, that why can't we just stamp it not product of the USA right now?

• 1:01:58Mike Rowe?

  Please.

• 1:01:59Speaker 01

  And then once mandatory country of origin labeling passes, then we can get back to the, this is from Brazil, this is from Australia, this is from Japan, but we can do something very, very quickly. So I'm, I'm working night and day on that right now.

• 1:02:10Mike Rowe?

  Who is in favor of saying product of the USA on a container of meat that came from Brazil? Who's behind that?

• 1:02:21Speaker 01

  It's big ag. It, it's the big four processors. This is the problem, right? And, and frankly, this is likely across all policy areas. Healthcare, Bobby Kennedy is having to manage a lot of this, education. America is the best, most extraordinary. It's, it really is the city on the hill. It's biblical from my perspective. It is the light in the darkness. I mean, the United States of America has been the light for the world almost from the beginning, 250 years ago. But we are so efficient and capitalism and market economics is real and it has helped us build the most successful economic country in the world.

• 1:03:01Speaker 01

  We have, you know, the, our, our poorest among us aren't dying of starvation anymore, right? Which is what happened for so many years. The poorest among us have massive other issues, but not that. But the challenge is it's now gone so far. This is why the president has taken on China when he first came down the escalator because we were driving mercilessly toward the cheapest good possible, right? And going America first, reshoring across all lanes. But from my perspective, especially agriculture, couldn't be more important today. But what has happened is, and this happens with all great civilizations, you buckle under the weight of your own government, right? This happened with Rome, with Greece, with everywhere in Europe.

• 1:03:44Speaker 01

  You can start voting yourself largesse. And this may have been soccer, I can't remember who said that. One of the great philosophers said that. The moment you start voting yourself largesse from the state treasury, that is the moment that your great civilization begins to decline. And I believe we were on that great decline in America until, you know, Donald Trump, obviously imperfect, no straight line from A to B, but he came in and broke up that status quo and he disrupted that trend of our great decline. But part of disrupting that trend and the great decline is taking freedom back, right? Self governance. And from my perspective, that means putting ranchers, farmers, agriculture, rural America

• 1:04:25Speaker 01

  back at the center of all policymaking and working to move back towards smaller, you know, supporting those ranchers and farmers. And, and that includes the food supply chain and the processors and the industry that supports them, seed, fertilizer, et cetera.

• 1:04:40Mike Rowe?

  Yes. The administration is lucky to have somebody who gives a damn to this degree, honestly. And I, again, I'm going to let you go. I know you got a thousand things, but, um, I'm so glad we did this because, put yourself in my place. How am I going to put up a conversation with the Secretary of Agriculture that doesn't address this? Like I, that's such a nightmare, recording these things in advance sometimes.

• 1:05:04Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:05:05Mike Rowe?

  But I'm so glad we waited.

• 1:05:06Speaker 01

  And Mike, from my perspective, it's such a gift to be able to explain, even if it isn't easy, right? Even if it's, but this is my whole approach to all of this is, and that's when I landed in Iowa, two hours after the president made that decision, I'm like, okay, this isn't the easiest thing I've ever done, but these amazing patriots deserve to hear directly from me, even if they don't agree with what the president decided, what his thinking was, but what we're going to keep working on for them. And I do believe once we get out of this, it's going to be incredible. So the opportunity to explain to an even larger audience than the 20 farmers I'm meeting with or the local news station, you know, you have such a huge following, I love.

• 1:05:49Speaker 01

  And, and now that I've got it set up on my iPad, I can kind of talk to you anytime. So you say, Brooke, would you come back on in a couple of months? I need to talk to you about what we're doing in China.

• 1:05:58Mike Rowe?

  Careful what you wish for. I am the kind of guy that'll take you up on that. And by the way, there's art in everything, right? The industrial arts, there's the art of politics, the art of agriculture, you know, is art. I sometimes think, you know, we just kind of arbitraged all of that out of the conversation, which is why I'm so glad you didn't blur whatever that is behind you.

• 1:06:22Speaker 01

  No blurring. I don't, I'm not sure why your audience is going to think about this, but I, it's my whole heart. But I think I told you, my husband was like, who runs a big oil and gas company was like, Brooke, that is so unprofessional. Like you cannot have that behind you. You were a cabinet member, you're like sixth in line for succession to the presidency.

• 1:06:39Mike Rowe?

  Well, you tell him to get the stick out of you know where, because this was exactly the right thing to do.

• 1:06:43Speaker 01

  I love it.

• 1:06:44Mike Rowe?

  Don't hang up till this is uploaded and thank you. Thank you again. And, uh, thank you, Ben Spell for, uh, for asking that question.

• 1:06:52Speaker 01

  Mike, you've got my cell phone. If you want to connect me directly to him so he can have a direct line into me, I would love to kind of keep that conversation going with him.

• 1:07:02Mike Rowe?

  Terrific. You know what? I've been threatening to have him on the pod sometime soon. Maybe I'll have you both on. We'll have a jolly.

• 1:07:08Speaker 01

  Oh, that would be awesome. I would love to do that.

• 1:07:13Mike Rowe?

  I'll let you know what he says.

• 1:07:14Speaker 01

  Sounds good. Thank you.

• 1:07:16Mike Rowe?

  Thank you, dear.

• 1:07:17Speaker 01

  All right. Am I hanging on?

• 1:07:18Mike Rowe?

  Yep.

• 1:07:19Speaker 01

  Okay, you got it.

• 1:07:20Mike Rowe?

  Thank you.

• 1:07:21Speaker 01

  You're welcome.

• 1:07:22Mike Rowe?

  We are now officially done.