The Traitors

The Peacock reality show The Traitors has become weekly appointment television, as the always impeccably dressed Alan Cumming presides over an unfriendly game full of alliances, secrets, treachery and murder. This season has been rich with drama. Players like Love Island contestant Rob Rausch and former Real Housewife Lisa Rinna have created some truly memorable moments in Traitors history. Ahead of the finale, we convene in the turret to debrief on it all. To access bonus episodes and sponsor-free listening for Pop Culture Happy Hour, subscribe to Pop Culture Happy Hour+ at plus.npr.org/happy. http://plus.npr.org/happy See pcm.adswizz.com https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences. NPR Privacy Policy https://www.npr.org/about-npr/179878450/privacy-policy

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  This message comes from iXL, a learning platform for helping kids build confidence and get up to speed fast. One subscription covers math, science, and reading for all children in a household. Receive 20% off at ixl.com/NPR.

• 0:20Aisha Harris?

  Alliances, secrets, treachery, murder. The reality show The Traitors has become weekly appointment television, as the always impeccably dressed Alan Cumming presides over an unfriendly game that's kind of like Celebrity Mafia.

• 0:36Speaker 02

  The latest season has been rich with drama, and players like Love Islander Rob Roush and Real Housewife Lisa Rinna have created some truly memorable moments in Traitors history. So of course, as the season winds down, we had to convene in the Turret to debrief on it all. I'm Glen Weldon.

• 0:51Aisha Harris?

  And I'm Aisha Harris. And ahead of the finale, we're talking about everything that's happened on season four of The Traitors.

• 1:03Speaker 00

  Stay tuned for the following announcements and messages from our sponsors. This message comes from iXL, a learning platform for helping kids build confidence and get up to speed fast. One subscription covers math, science, and reading for all children in a household. Receive 20% off at ixl.com/NPR. This message comes from Schwab. At Schwab, you can get everything from self-directed investing to full-service wealth management, all in one place. No matter your investing goal, life stage, amount to invest, or know-how, you can invest your way with Schwab. This message comes from Scholastic with Licorice, the highly anticipated, chilling-yet-hartful

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• 2:04Aisha Harris?

  Joining us today is host of NPR'S It's Been a Minute, Brittany Luce. Welcome back, Brittany.

• 2:08Speaker 03

  It's good to be here. Thank you so much.

• 2:09Aisha Harris?

  I am so happy to have you here. This is gonna be a very fun conversation, just like the show. So, The Traitors. Here's how it works. Alan Cumming and his adorable dog, Lala, host a bunch of celebrities in a Scottish mansion for a social deduction game. At the beginning of the proceedings, each player is assigned a role, traitor or faithful. Now, generally speaking, traitors know who each other are, with a rare exception, we'll get into in a bit. And they work together to winnow down the faithfuls through manipulation and secret murders. Faithfuls, however, have no idea who's a fellow faithful or a traitor. It's their job to sniff out and banish traitors by vote during roundtables. Though, there's always the risk they end up mistakenly eliminating a faithful instead.

• 2:54Aisha Harris?

  And mild spoiler here, but they almost usually often end up mistakenly eliminating a faithful instead. In between all the deception, there are challenges to collect money to add to the cash prize pot at the end. So, like previous seasons, this one has included celebrities across various pop culture universes. You've got Real Housewife Candace Dillard-Basset, comedian Ron Funches, Olympic skaters Tara Lipinski and Johnny Weir, and on and on and on. The Traitors is streaming on Peacock. Glenn, I'm gonna start with you. The floor is yours.

• 3:28Speaker 02

  I was hoping the floor would be mine. Good, good. Look, I went into this season being a fan of Ron Funches, a fan of Monet Exchange, a new Johnny Weir, cuz he introduced a couple Eurovision semifinals. Everyone else, nope. I mean, I had a bad feeling about Michael Rapaport cuz I got sensory organs and a pulse. But other than that, nothing. I mean, and I'm surprised I'm watching this show. I'm always surprised because this is labeled as competitive reality, but like, the competition is just vibes, and it's nothing more than vibes. And I like my competitive reality to have some skill and professional experience and be a little less Stanford prison experiment-y, but I'm in. My first impression of Rob, the guy who's making it all the way to the final, was that there wasn't a lot under all that facial symmetry,

• 4:10Speaker 02

  which of course is his strategy, which is exactly what he wanted me to think of him. He wanted to be easily dismissible or seem it. He's that hot guy from high school who you crush on from the distance, but then you talk to him one day and realize he's so basic, like you need to redirect your energies. He's playing a good game. It was a good game until this last round table when it became Traitors legendary. Now, is this guy benefiting from pretty privilege? Of course he is. But when it comes to his gameplay, when it comes to the specific choices he's making in his gameplay, I don't think you can say his looks mean he was born on third base. Second base, though, I'd say definitely second, because he knows how to use that privilege. People are just drawn

• 4:52Speaker 02

  to attractive people. That's what attractive means. And so he lets people lean into him. They come to him. He's withholding. He is, most importantly, still. And in an environment that's as rife with paranoia, that feeds on paranoia like this environment does, you're going to be drawn to a calm presence, even if they're wearing overalls. And this last episode was a testament to that, where he comes into the round table with a target on his back and gets that target moved, not, I think we'd all agree, not by virtue of any compelling argument he makes, or any evidence he presents, just based on hot calmness. And I want to be clear, Natalie is hot too, but she was coming in to that round table

• 5:36Speaker 02

  with agitation and urgency, and that is an energy that every faithful recognizes. It's the energy that they see in themselves, and they don't want to be reminded of that. So they banish it. And even though he is now on everybody's radar, in a way he has not been all season, I still think this is a Rob's to lose.

• 5:52Aisha Harris?

  Interesting. Okay. I agree with almost everything you said, although I would add hot white boy privilege. As you hinted at with Natalie, it's a different thing. Hot white boy privilege, you can do practically no wrong, oftentimes in many situations. And we are seeing that play out in this show for sure. Now, Brittany, I understand this is your very first Traitors. You're a baby Traitor.

• 6:17Speaker 03

  I'm enjoying it this season. I'm enjoying it. I'm having a good time. I will say, though, the people that are left over right now are not the sharpest tools in the shed, which, to your point, Glenn, it does make it a little tough to watch. And I'm not, I'm not even like a strategy, like, reality game person. I think I saw the first season of Survivor, when it came out, when I was like in middle school.

• 6:35Aisha Harris?

  Yeah.

• 6:36Speaker 03

  I just was like, watching Maura and Johnny and Tara rub them little brain cells together. It's kind of painful.

• 6:44Aisha Harris?

  Maura Higgins, who is from Love Island, same universe as Rob, with a very, very thick Irish accent.

• 6:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, I love her accent. Adorable.

• 6:53Aisha Harris?

  Well, Brittany, I want to ask you, how familiar were you with any or some or most of the people on the show?

• 7:00Speaker 03

  Uh, okay, anybody who was from Big Brother or Survivor, I did not know who they were. And anybody from like, like the one, there was a woman there from Real Housewife of Dubai. I just thought she was a random Australian lady. I don't even know if she's Australian. I just was, I was rubbing my little brain cells together. I didn't know who she was. But pretty much everybody else I was familiar with or had some idea of.

• 7:19Aisha Harris?

  Yeah.

• 7:20Speaker 03

  As long as they were not from Survivor or from Big Brother, because I just don't watch those. I don't know anything about them.

• 7:28Aisha Harris?

  It's interesting to think about because I'm kind of in the same boat as both of you. I knew, I could say, two people on the show before this. Ron Funches, who I love, and I think he's great, and we should talk more about him in a minute. And also, as you mentioned, Glenn, Michael Rapaport.

• 7:43Speaker 03

  I think he got banished because he's just so unpleasant.

• 7:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, that's clear.

• 7:48Speaker 03

  I think he annoyed everybody, and he annoyed me as a viewer.

• 7:51Aisha Harris?

  No, he, he's the definition of broke clock twice a day because, yes, he was absolutely so annoying. But every once in a while, he was like sniffing in the right direction. He'd be like, why are we not looking at the two like hot guys over there? And he was like referring to like Rob, and I think he might have been referring to like Stephen Colletti, who is of course from.

• 8:09Speaker 03

  One Tree Hill. Who says he's from One Tree Hill, but he's really from Laguna Beach. Yeah.

• 8:14Aisha Harris?

  Yeah, let's be real here. But he was one of the few who like occasionally he would sniff in the right direction and be like, Ron, you eat weirdly, you annoy everyone, and you just like have no, you're so uncouth, and yet sometimes you're right. But so like going into it, like not knowing most of the, who these, most of these people are, I, I'm like, what is the draw here? Because I'm sure there are a lot of people who, because there's so many people and they're all from different places, it's like no one's going to know everyone. So what is the draw here? And I think, for me at least, the draw here is. The way that so much of this can map on to the way people act in real life socially. I mean, yes, it's a game. Yes, there's all these theatrics and contrivances.

• 8:58Aisha Harris?

  But at the same time, as we already talked about, like with someone like Rob, it's just so funny how everyone's like, oh, it couldn't be Rob. It couldn't be Rob. And it's like, at some point, are we going to look at the guy who like is always just laying in the cut? Just like chilling very quietly. What are we doing here? And then the way things switch so quickly in roundtables from, without anyone actually really having to do anything. I think of Candace, the Real Housewife of Potomac, and how she was a traitor for a while and she was quite good at it in a different way from Rob. But then she let it get the best of her. Yes. She decided to be petty because Rob saw that Lisa Rinna was getting heat. And he was like, well, if you're not going to play, then we're going to have to sacrifice.

• 9:42Aisha Harris?

  And he understands at least a little bit like, yes, hot boy privilege, but as you said, Glenn, he also is pretty good at strategizing up to a point. It's that plus the fact that most of these people are not very, they're not very good. Like, there's just too many factors at play. And it feels like real life because oftentimes you are operating off of emotion, right? Not strategy.

• 10:04Speaker 03

  My impression, this being my first season of Traitors, is that Traitors is basically like an office workplace. Even thinking about who they selected as the initial traitors this season. You have Candace Dillard-Basset from Real Housewife of Potomac. You have Lisa Rinna of Real Housewife of Beverly Hills. And you have Rob from Love Island. And these are people that probably would not hang like that in real life.

• 10:33Aisha Harris?

  Right.

• 10:33Speaker 03

  However, they are pushed together by the bounds of their workplace. Like, they are a trio of people that I have seen, like a type of people that I've seen before, that really bang with each other at work. Would like eat lunch together, would take their breaks together. I think that that's kind of like what gets people so into Traitors, is it's a bunch of people that are from random. Places, doing totally different stuff with different skills, who are forced to have to cooperate with each other at times. And then also sort of like jockey with each other. And then other times, like you might be plotting against them, or they might be plotting against you.

• 11:14Speaker 03

  You know, to figure out like who's going to speak first at the meeting, or who's going to get which vacation days off. And I think that that aspect of it, these sort of like unlikely bedfellows, who also are like constantly going friends to lovers to enemies, to lovers to friends to enemies. I don't know. I just think that's something that a lot of people identify with. And like also too, people who do well in those environments in real life are also the people who tend to do well on traders. How many clueless white guys who are cute have any of us worked with? Don't know anything, wouldn't know how to open up PowerPoint. How many women of color get thrown under the bus in the workplace? Sorry, not speaking about Candace. Candace played a bad game. Natalie got thrown under the bus. Candace played a bad game. Yeah.

• 11:55Speaker 03

  Um, and then also too, like how many people are really good at reading the room? As Rob has been out, I think he's actually played a really good game. Yeah. For every episode except for the penultimate episode of the season. Like some people are just really, really good at reading the room and figuring out who they need to kind of like, like when they need to go with the flow and when they need to transgress. Yeah. And those are people that tend to do well in the workplace. And I just think, I don't know, to me traders is like, I think it's something that most people can relate to maybe more than they realize if they're not thinking about it that way.

• 12:27Speaker 02

  Okay, but I accept, Brittany, that everybody on this show, just about everybody on this show, does have exactly the same job. Most of these people's jobs are to be on reality TV.

• 12:37Speaker 03

  But they fulfill different roles, though.

• 12:39Speaker 02

  To find their light, to create, to produce themselves, to produce their own storylines, to create drama, to make sure that the producers cut to them and that the editors don't leave them on the cutting room floor. That's why it feels so squishy and meta. And that's why, even though it calls itself a social deduction game, this is all social, no deduction. The faithfuls willfully dupe themselves every time into believing that they have some evidence, that there's some basis for actual deduction. There never is. There is only vibes on this show because. You can accuse someone of traitor behavior all the time. It doesn't mean anything.

• 13:11Aisha Harris?

  Right.

• 13:12Speaker 02

  Because there's no definition for it. It's whatever you want it to be. So this is just confirmation bias, the game. And that's why I just, this, it's, it's mob justice and I'll allow that manipulating people is a social skill. It's just squishy. I, it feels more social experiment than game to me. But that's me off in the corner arguing over semantics by myself. I don't care.

• 13:32Speaker 03

  I think you're right, though. It is definitely more social experiment than game. The game.

• 13:35Aisha Harris?

  Yeah.

• 13:35Speaker 03

  I don't think is that well constructed. I think maybe that's why I didn't get into it the first time I watched it because I was like, the game's not picking up. And also, I think it was like between the second season of Traitors and House of Villains. And I'm just a little tackier. And so I was, I went straight for how I was like, whoa, Jax Taylor and Tiffany. Tiffany, New York Pollard. I'm like, sign me up.

• 13:56Aisha Harris?

  I want to see Tiffany New York Pollard on the show. I have said this on the record.

• 14:00Speaker 02

  You have said this before.

• 14:01Speaker 03

  She would be so good.

• 14:02Aisha Harris?

  I, I can completely agree that mostly it's just vibes. Also, the fact that the rules are constantly changing all the time. Even this season was the first time, I think, at least in the US version, where they have a secret trader, where like, there's a trader in the midst, but like, the other traders don't know who they are and the faithfuls don't know who they are. This season, it was none other than Mama Kelsey, Donna Kelsey.

• 14:28Speaker 03

  The most obvious secret trader. I've never even seen the show before. And I said, why is this lady here?

• 14:33Aisha Harris?

  She's just like, I'm just a mom.

• 14:36Speaker 02

  What did you guys think of the secret trader thing in theory? Because I like it in theory, not in execution, I agree, but I love getting a taste, a small one, of what the faithfuls are going through because the internet loves to pile on every season, not just this season, Brittany, but every season, it's like the faithfuls are idiots. But the not knowing and the thinking you don't know, but then having suspicions, but then doubting those suspicions. That is the heart of this game that we don't really get a sense of at home.

• 14:59Aisha Harris?

  Exactly.

• 14:59Speaker 02

  What the secret trader does is give you a better sense of that. I didn't like the feeling of not knowing who it was, even though it was very obvious. But I love the moment of the reveal.

• 15:08Aisha Harris?

  Yes.

• 15:08Speaker 02

  Being part of it in that way and feeling a little bit more.

• 15:11Aisha Harris?

  Yeah.

• 15:12Speaker 02

  Empathy, I guess, for these idiots on the show.

• 15:15Aisha Harris?

  The, the secret trader aspect of it, I thought was very interesting. And I kind of wish that had been allowed to play out a little bit longer. Because like you said, it was way too obvious. And, and it also gave the faithfuls like an early, like, too much, like, ooh, we got someone really early. Like, we're good at this. And then, of course, like. The rest of the show, they have not been as good. There was one moment this season where it was less about vibes and more about actually trying to strategize and grab on, hold on to some evidence. And that was Ron, when he heard Portia slip up and say something that suggested that she might have been a traitor. And was she? No, but he was literally acting on actual evidence.

• 15:57Aisha Harris?

  He said many times as he came into this house, like, I don't know any of y'all. I'm gonna try and play this game, actually. Because that's the thing, right? It's also, and maybe, I think Glenn, you've seen maybe some of the non-celebrity versions of this, but like, the thing about the celebrity version of these shows is the fact that most people have know at least one or two other people in the house, or have worked with them before. Oh, sure. There's relationships with, which adds to all of the dynamics and the drama and whatever. But Ron was coming in like, I'm just a comedian, and I'm here, and I don't know any of you. I loved that because you got a taste of like, how you might move if you didn't actually know anyone, and how that might actually make for a more interesting game. Now, was he wrong a lot?

• 16:40Aisha Harris?

  Yes, but he was still trying to play the game like the way ostensibly it should be played in an ideal world, right?

• 16:47Speaker 03

  I mean, I see, I disagree. I don't think he was playing an ideal game, simply because he so rejected the social aspect of the game. And that, to me, was a part of the reason, I think, why he was wrong a lot. And also, part of the reason why, for me, I sometimes felt a little bad for him, because sometimes I felt like he was, like, people were kind of misreading him.

• 17:09Aisha Harris?

  Right.

• 17:10Speaker 03

  But I also felt like, he was like, I don't want to get to know any of you. I don't want to talk to anyone. And I'm like, I'm sorry, dude. Like, unfortunately, the way that the game is constructed, it's like, so that you all are constantly having to interact with each other. Also, like, that's a good strategy for getting information from people. Side note, I knew that this season did not have people who were gonna be super smart at the game, because somehow they believed that Johnny and Tara didn't- Know each other. I'm like.

• 17:41Aisha Harris?

  Don't even get me.

• 17:43Speaker 03

  Just put your thinking caps on for a second. How big is the world of Olympic figure skating that you think they just wouldn't know each other?

• 17:51Aisha Harris?

  And they're around the same age, so it's like, it's not like they wouldn't.

• 17:54Speaker 03

  Right, and still, but like, I think that like, you know, obviously, I feel for Ron as a person who came in not really knowing anybody else.

• 18:03Aisha Harris?

  Yeah.

• 18:03Speaker 03

  So I could see how that would probably feel very strange because you're like, these people are so, because they're also, a lot of them are bizarre. So you're like, these people are weird as hell. I don't know who any of you are. There's a lot going on. But unfortunately, the way the game is constructed, the fact that it's a reality television show, even if you are on a more cutthroat show like a Survivor or a Big Brother, your social game. However, you want to approach it and whatever way works for you is unfortunately something I think that is just a built in part of the gameplay. And it's not that he tried it and he failed at it. It's that he was like, I don't care to engage in this at all. And I'm like, well.

• 18:38Aisha Harris?

  And I do want to jump in here and just note that, you know, Ron Funches, after his time on the show, he's talked about how it kind of made him reflect and he was hearing from people who were watching the show saying like, oh, I see a lot of you in me. I'm autistic. And so.

• 18:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 18:53Aisha Harris?

  He actually wound up going to get an assessment. And so he's kind of started the process of looking into that for himself. He said, you know, I had a son, he talked about this in his standup comedy. He has a son who is autistic and he always thought of himself as an ally. And, you know, he's also described the experience as some type of cruel trauma being on the show. But, you know, at least he's, he's finding something about himself and I'm just so happy to see him having this glow up and being well received. He's just a fun guy and I'm really happy and I was so, such a fan of Ron and an even bigger fan now.

• 19:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, I empathize. I mean, that's the game I would want to play. I would want it to be based on evidence, even if it's evidence I, I mistook. And it's just not. You're absolutely right, Brittany. It's just, that's not this game. This game is too squishy.

• 19:41Speaker 03

  But also though, how do you get evidence?

• 19:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:45Speaker 03

  You have to have, whether your social game is talking to people or maybe trying to. To sit a little bit further back in the cut and watch, which I'll say like Eric is always wrong too. Eric Namb, always wrong.

• 19:57Speaker 02

  Always wrong.

• 19:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, but he was really good at sort of like kind of sitting back and just kind of going with the flow. I do think that part of gathering evidence, you have to interact with people, whether you like it or not, to actually gather the evidence. I'd like when Ron got his evidence of Portia, he got it from listening to a conversation. So I just want to jump in and say that like, I think that evidence is important, but how are you going to gather it if you're not interacting with everybody else?

• 20:22Speaker 02

  And speaking of always wrong, but being always wrong with style, I mean, let's talk about Maura. She is thoroughly entertaining. I don't think she's gonna win, but I think she's worthy of a win. She, she and I should be friends. I think we'd be Tikus Teaves and we could go see Watering Heights. And I, I liked how far she'd come. I think she could go farther. And finally, last one. This is my last one. I kind of wonder if she was ever, you know, out in the grounds doing those challenges, if she ever, she taught putty tat, was that ever a thing she taught you taught?

• 20:56Aisha Harris?

  Wow.

• 20:56Speaker 03

  I liked Maura. I was a fan of her hosting After Sun, which is like the

• 21:01Speaker 02

  Oh, right.

• 21:01Speaker 03

  end of week, sort of like after show for Love Island, because I am a Love Islander. I think she's thirsting for Rob. I think that is blinding her.

• 21:10Speaker 02

  She is so deep in his pocket, she's practically lent. Yeah, that's, that's a problem. But how do you think this is going to end? Because on paper, you know, Rob has been playing, in Drag Race terms, he's having a Bob the Drag Queen, Bianca Del Rio season. He is coasting to the end. I don't see Rob splitting it with Eric, because in Rob's mind, Eric hasn't earned it. He's just ridden along. Now, that's why Rob chose him, because he wanted somebody to be, you know, just do what I say. But I think Rob is gonna ride that horse until it collapses, and then he's gonna pick up a saddle and cross the finish line on his own.

• 21:43Aisha Harris?

  If we are to believe that Rob is as empathic as he has been, saying he is throughout this entire season, he's always like

• 21:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, who's saying that? He is. So.

• 21:53Aisha Harris?

  Maybe I am also too drawn in by his beautiful chiseled face.

• 21:58Speaker 03

  See, I watched Love Island, so I'm like.

• 22:01Aisha Harris?

  Occasional moments when his, is he from this out? I don't even know, but sometimes he sounds.

• 22:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, he's from Alabama. That's where I thought his and Ron's relationship was very sweet.

• 22:08Aisha Harris?

  The country boy thing.

• 22:09Speaker 02

  He's Alabama all the way.

• 22:10Aisha Harris?

  Yeah, yeah. So if we're to believe that, like, he might help Eric. Like, he hasn't shown so far any sort of like inclinations of cheating Eric. He's told Eric when someone else says his name. I mean, he did the same thing with Lisa and he tried to save her, but she just kept digging herself and then, jam, jam, jam, jam, Orocho, who was from Survivor. The kiss, the kiss.

• 22:39Aisha Harris?

  So like, I don't know. I, I think it's possible he might just keep it for himself, but I kind of think, I hope Rob shares it with Eric, even if he hasn't kind of, he hasn't earned it.

• 22:50Speaker 02

  Eric wasn't greatest of faithful. He's a lousy traitor. His strategy as a traitor is flop, sweat and silence. And that's not, that's not a good strategy.

• 22:57Aisha Harris?

  He is such a muppet. It's, it's, it's both adorable and frustrating.

• 23:00Speaker 03

  He's confused by everything, but with certainty. I can see that he's confused, but he's like, I'm not confused. I know, I know whose handwriting that was.

• 23:10Aisha Harris?

  Remember when he was like, I'm a singer. I know, I can tell people's like voices blindfolded.

• 23:18Speaker 03

  I think that Rob's gonna win it all. I think that Rob's gonna keep the money. I don't think that Eric, I just think that Eric is extremely valuable to him right now.

• 23:27Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 23:27Speaker 03

  I think they could have maneuvered more. I think, well, at least I think Rob could have maneuvered more easily with Kristen there because Kristen already suspected Eric. So he could have just let things play out like how they played out with Lisa. He could have gone with the flow. And then, you know, kept on in the picks like Maura is his co-trader or something like that. And really coasted all the way to the end because Lord have mercy, again, great after son host, but oh, Maura sister. Traitors is not your forte.

• 23:53Aisha Harris?

  Okay, you have swayed me like I was at the round table.

• 23:57Speaker 02

  There we go.

• 23:58Aisha Harris?

  You are probably right, and I still think he should have picked Kristen instead. Kristen Kish, of course, who was a host on Top Chef.

• 24:07Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 24:07Aisha Harris?

  I just think instead of Eric, like, she probably would have been a smarter choice.

• 24:11Speaker 02

  Agreed.

• 24:12Aisha Harris?

  But you know what? It is what it is. Rob cannot be perfect all the time.

• 24:16Speaker 02

  That's true. Brittany, I have one recommendation for you. Your next season of Traders should be Celebrity Traders UK. That is the platonic ideal of what this show could be if they drew contestants exclusively from the ranks of actors, comedians, musicians, journalists, athletes. I mean, there was one YouTube guy. But people with actual life skills, instead of people whose job it is to go on shows like this.

• 24:42Aisha Harris?

  Thank you.

• 24:43Speaker 02

  It's genial and funny and warm and friendly competition. It's going to sour you on Traders because after that season, like, that's the one that's closest to my heart. This is fine.

• 24:52Speaker 03

  You say it's this season of UK Traders or UK Celebrity?

• 24:55Speaker 02

  There's only one Celebrity Traders UK so far, and that's the only one that there is.

• 24:59Aisha Harris?

  That's going to be my next one.

• 25:00Speaker 02

  The host is different. The dynamic is different. Alan loves making fun of these, you know, fatuous reality show people. Claudia Winkleman, who's the host on the UK version, really is really pulling for everybody. She just wants everybody to do their best. It's a different vibe, but it's great. Some of the same challenges you'll see elsewhere, but a lot of fun.

• 25:17Speaker 03

  Thank you for the rec.

• 25:18Aisha Harris?

  I love that recommendation, Glenn, although I do, look, I love Alan Cumming. He had one of my favorite moments of this entire series so far that I've seen, which is when Jam Jam was murdered and his line was, "Jam Jam is toast, toast." Yes. So perfect, so perfect. Well, friends, we have come to the end of another roundtable. We are fully locked in for this finale. You should let us know what you think about the Traders. Find us on Facebook at facebook.com slash PCHH. That brings us to the end of our show. Glen Weldon, Brittany Luce, thanks so much for being here. And Brittany, welcome, welcome to the turrets. It's so lovely to have you here.

• 26:01Speaker 03

  Thank you. I'm so happy to be here. And thank you all for welcoming me to the Traders family. I'm excited to check out Celebrity Traders.

• 26:07Aisha Harris?

  Z K.

• 26:08Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 26:09Aisha Harris?

  Yeah, yeah. And just a reminder that signing up for Pop Put Your Happy Hour Plus is a great way to support our show and public radio, and you get to listen to all of our episodes sponsor free. Ooh, so please go find out more at plus.npr.org/happyhour or visit the link in our show notes. This episode was produced by Hafsa Fatima and Mike Katsiv and edited by our showrunner, Jessica Reedy. Hello, Come In provides our theme music. Thanks so much for listening to Pop Put Your Happy Hour from NPR. I'm Aisha Harris, and we'll see you all next time.

• 26:43Speaker 00

  Stay tuned for the following announcements and messages from our sponsors. This message comes from Schwab. Self-directed investing, trading, full-service wealth management, automated investing, financial planning, thematic investing, retirement planning. And to think, that's just a small taste of what Schwab offers, because Schwab knows that when it comes to your finances, choice matters. No matter your goals, investing style, lifestyle, or experience, Schwab has everything you need all in one place, so you can invest your way. Visit schwab.com to learn more. This message comes from Rosetta Stone. Rosetta Stone is designed to make language learning intuitive. It mimics how people naturally acquire speech as

• 27:28Speaker 00

  children, helping users read, write, and think in a second language. More at rosettastone.com.