Michael Shannon, Vol. IV

The Happy Sad Confused spirit animal is back! The dry and brilliant actor that is Michael Shannon returns to rib Josh, spread the good word of his new directing effort, ERIC LARUE, and talks tattoos and Oscar night regrets. UPCOMING EVENT! Paul Feig -- April 6th in Miami -- ⁠Tickets here!⁠ C2E2 events in Chicago April 12th -- ⁠Tickets here⁠! SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS! Quince -- Go to Quince.com/happysadco for 365 day returns and free shipping! Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Happy Sad Confused patreon here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! We've got discount codes to live events, merch, early access, exclusive episodes, video versions of the podcast, and more! To watch episodes of Happy Sad Confused, subscribe to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Josh's youtube channel here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

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• 0:29Josh Horowitz?

  What are the toughest lines generally for you to? Like, is it exposition? Like, is, what's the stuff, the tough stuff?

• 0:35Speaker 02

  The hardest line I've ever had to say is, "Oh, hi, Josh. It's so nice to see you again."

• 0:43Speaker 02

  That's the hardest line of dialogue I've ever had to say.

• 0:46Speaker 03

  Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, Sad, Confused begins now.

• 0:53Josh Horowitz?

  Hey, guys. Josh here. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. We have a very special treat. For those of you that have listened to the podcast for many years, there's one man that comes up maybe more than anybody else. My spirit animal is back. It's Michael Shannon on Happy, Sad, Confused, where he belongs today. I believe it's his fourth appearance on the show. Look forward to that indescribable Michael Shannon magic coming into your eyes and ears, depending on how you're consuming this, very soon on this episode of Happy, Sad, Confused. Before we get to all of that, the usual reminders. I'll keep this brief, but we just did a live event in New York City with Nathan Lane. That is going to be on our next episode, dropping in just a few days. It was fantastic. He is amazing.

• 1:38Josh Horowitz?

  I don't need to sell you on that. He's an icon. Amazing. All which is to say, we do a lot of live events, and we've got a couple of ones coming up in cities outside of New York for a change. So if you happen to be, drumroll, in Miami, Florida on April 6th, come on out and see me and Paul Feig. We're going to be screening Another Simple Favor, the sequel to A Simple Favor, nearly a month before it comes out. And then I'm going to be chatting with him for a career conversation. It's April 6th in Miami. Very cool. And then, if you happen to be in Chicago or want to drop by at C2E2 on April 12th. Get a load of this. I'm going to be talking to the likes of John Boyega, the stars of Once Upon a Time,

• 2:22Josh Horowitz?

  Peter Weller and Nancy Travis. I said the wrong Nancy recently and someone pointed it out to me. Nancy, no, Nancy Travis is the other great actor from the 80s that I'm thinking of Nancy Allen. There it is. It came to me. Nancy Allen, of course, of Brian De Palma fame and Robocop fame. So whatever, her and Peter Weller are coming back together for a Robocop panel in Chicago. And then best of all, and they're all great, but most historic of all is a 40th annual reunion of The Breakfast Club, all of them together. So come on by. If you're in Chicago, if you want to come on by and make a day of it, you're going to see a whole lot of me at C2E2. All the information is in the show notes.

• 3:04Josh Horowitz?

  And speaking of information, check out our Patreon, patreon.com/happysayconfused. All of our episodes go up there early. We try to give you guys extras and bonuses and discounts and autograph merch. We have some new autograph posters from Nathan Lane, for instance, all that and more at patreon.com/happysayconfused. That's your go-to destination if you're a true diehard Josh Hurwitz, happy say confused lover. Okay, main event. Michael Shannon, everybody. I'm obsessed with Michael Shannon. I've been so for over a decade, 15 years, since whatever I started to chat with him. He is dry, dark, funny, and most importantly, insanely talented.

• 3:47Josh Horowitz?

  Our conversations are like no other. It's get ready, strap in. There's a certain cadence and speed and passive aggression throughout our chats, and I'm here for it, and hopefully you are too. His new film is called Eric LaRue, and look, I'm always there to support Michael, and this is a special one. This is his film directing debut. It's been a long time in the making. It's finally getting a nice release from Magnolia Pictures on April 4th. Michael is behind the camera, but in front of the camera, some stellar talents, including Judy Greer and Alexander Skarsgård. It's a dark story, a sad story, dealing with a school shooting, but

• 4:28Josh Horowitz?

  come for the amazing acting and the great writing and the directing of Michael Shannon. So yeah, theaters April 4th. Believe it's on VOD and all the other fun things a week after, but support our guy because he's one of, one of the greats. Okay. Without any further ado, let's get right to it. As I always say, he's my spirit animal. He is a unicorn. He is also pound for a pound. One of the most talented actors working today. I'm always here for him and hopefully you are too. Enjoy my conversation, my catch up with the legend, Michael Shannon. Michael Shannon, we're giving the people what they want. The people of earth demand.

• 5:09Speaker 02

  More time with me?

• 5:11Josh Horowitz?

  Yes. And especially this combo, obviously, the Shannonites have demanded it. And here we are.

• 5:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 5:17Josh Horowitz?

  Are you ready for this?

• 5:18Speaker 02

  I, I don't know if it'll be as, um.

• 5:22Speaker 02

  I don't know. Is, is, I don't know if there'll be as many fireworks as there usually are.

• 5:27Josh Horowitz?

  Don't start at that place with that kind of attitude. There won't be, but we have the capacity. We can do this.

• 5:32Speaker 02

  You're really gonna have to push me.

• 5:34Josh Horowitz?

  Okay. I'm here for you. I'm here for you. By the way, do, do your fans, have they come up with a moniker? Are they the Shannon heads, the Shannonites, just people of the taste?

• 5:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's kind of like the Mennonites, the Shannonites.

• 5:48Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 5:49Speaker 02

  I don't know. I don't know that I have that many fans. Do I have that many fans?

• 5:53Josh Horowitz?

  Don't play humble with me. You know they're out there. You know.

• 5:58Speaker 02

  I guess, yeah. I don't know. I'm, I'm trying to like. Just be a regular guy, Josh, you know?

• 6:07Josh Horowitz?

  That's impossible for you. Have you ever seen a Michael Shannon tattoo out in the wild?

• 6:12Speaker 02

  Oh, I, I, I haven't seen it in a while, but I've seen pictures on the internet. Yeah, people get, they have me tattooed on their bodies.

• 6:20Josh Horowitz?

  That's commitment.

• 6:22Speaker 02

  That's nuts.

• 6:23Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. One of these days I have to, I have to, I have to show you my, um, release the world engine tattoo I got. I haven't shown it to you yet in person.

• 6:30Speaker 02

  Where is it?

• 6:32Josh Horowitz?

  Where do you think it is? Three guesses.

• 6:38Speaker 02

  Oh my god, Josh Horowitz elevating the conversation since when? Since 19, no, not even 19, 2000 what?

• 6:51Josh Horowitz?

  We'll get to your classy movie in a minute, but we're gonna start base. By the way, what was the, you know, I'm contractually obligated to talk about that line. What was the, do you remember the intent behind it? Do you remember the direction? What was in your head when you were reciting that amazing line?

• 7:09Speaker 02

  Well, I'm trying to turn Earth into a krypton. So the world engine will, will kind of devane Earth and insert krypton into the Earth.

• 7:20Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, this is exactly what I wanted. Thank you. Thank you for parsing that out for me.

• 7:25Speaker 02

  Does that not sound like a valid explanation?

• 7:28Josh Horowitz?

  No, it's great. What, what, what are the toughest lines generally for you to? Like, is it exposition? Like, is, what's the stuff, the tough stuff?

• 7:34Speaker 02

  The hardest line I've ever had to say is, oh, hi, Josh. It's so nice to see you again.

• 7:44Speaker 02

  That's the hardest line of dialogue I've ever had to say.

• 7:48Josh Horowitz?

  We did, we did catch up in Telluride in person. That was the last time we, we got together. I, I'll be honest, I, I felt like you were, you were a little poopy. I feel like you were in a poopy mood that day.

• 7:59Speaker 02

  Maybe it was the elevation, I don't know.

• 8:01Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, I think it was the long trip. You were, you were in the middle of shooting something from a long ways away, too.

• 8:06Speaker 02

  Oh, God, yeah, I came from like, where'd I come from? Europe? No, not Europe.

• 8:12Josh Horowitz?

  Budapest, were you in Budapest?

• 8:13Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, Budapest, yeah, that's in Europe. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 8:19Josh Horowitz?

  You're, you're not, you're not poopy today because you're, you're spreading the good word of your wonderful movie, right?

• 8:24Speaker 02

  I'm just trying to stay on an even keel, you know? It's all about even keel these days. That's like going back to the beginning of the conversation. You're gonna have a hard time getting me to go off because I'm, I'm on an even keel nowadays.

• 8:37Josh Horowitz?

  We'll see, we'll see. There, there are some life developments that I wanted to mention. You, you, I never thought you would join Instagram. How's the Instagram life treating you, Michael?

• 8:49Speaker 02

  I haven't looked at my page in a long time.

• 8:54Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, that's it served a purpose at the at the moment. It was.

• 8:57Speaker 02

  I'll tell you why that happened. I was talking to my daughter Sylvia before the election. And she said, Dad, you have to say something to the people. I said, what? She says, you have to get on the social media and say something. I said, honey, nobody cares what I think. She said, that's not true. You have to go on like Instagram or something and make a little speech. And because I love my daughter so much, I did. I did something that I swore I would never do. And I went on the Instagram and I made a little speech and I solved all the problems with my little speech.

• 9:36Josh Horowitz?

  Look, at least you did what you could. I think that's very sweet because she's probably hears it from you. We all hear it in our respective homes, what we're agonizing over. And if we're not using our platforms for something, especially in those extreme cases, sadly, it didn't pan out the way we wanted it to, but you at least tried.

• 9:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, I did. But then, when, once the, the, the, once the event had taken place, I stopped paying any attention to it. So I hope there's there's not like an emergency situation there that needs my attention because it won't, it won't get it.

• 10:15Josh Horowitz?

  So, so, so basically it's Instagram in case of dire urgency. So we're hoping we don't see you on Instagram. If we see you on Instagram, it's a bad sign, basically.

• 10:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, it means something terrible is happening.

• 10:26Josh Horowitz?

  Right, right. All right, let's read the good word of this. I know this has been a long journey for you. How are you? You must be experiencing what? A sense of relief? Happiness that finally this baby of yours is getting the release, the exposure that it demands. Has it been kind of a, I mean, because you shot this a while ago, has it been a long, kind of frustrating journey? Or give me a sense of your your head, the last couple of years of trying to get this out in the world?

• 10:56Speaker 02

  Well, I wasn't completely shocked by how difficult it was, uh, because it's a difficult film and it's not, um, you know, it's not necessarily, I don't know, the traditional crowd pleaser, um, but that's fine. I knew that when I made it, um. And, you know, all these, a lot of the companies, uh, that put movies out right now have, uh, had a lot of trials and tribulations over the last few years and everybody's a little anxious and, uh, that makes sense too, you know, I mean, uh,

• 11:36Speaker 02

  there are easier ways to make money than, uh, than these, these, these, these kind of films. So that's fine. I, I accept all of it, uh, happily, um, but I'm very, very happy that we wound up at Magnolia. I've respected Magnolia for a year, a number of years and I, I love their taste and, uh, and they, they seem very, uh, committed and invested and, and I, I think it, it actually, I think the delay on the release of the film has perhaps even been beneficial

• 12:15Speaker 02

  because I feel like now is the time for this film to come out. So, uh,

• 12:22Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, I think, I think

• 12:23Speaker 02

  I don't have any complaints. I don't have any complaints. I've seen other people go through, you know, more arduous journey to get their film out than, than me, yeah.

• 12:33Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, you, you talk about it like, you know, being relevant now. The saddest part about this obviously probably is that it's, it's always relevant is, is that this is this, we're in this perpetual cycle and this film, the film, what we're talking about is Eric LaRue. Um, and it is exceptional piece of work. You did great, man. It's a, and, and no surprise, it has great performances throughout from Trudy Greer, Alexander Skarsgård, um, Paul Sparks, your buddy, like a lot of, you know, familiar faces, um. Just give me a sense of the history of this because this, this goes back a long ways as a, as a theater piece that

• 13:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. Well, the first time I saw Eric LaRue was in two thousand and two. Um, I saw it at this theater that I belong to in Chicago called Red Orchid Theater.

• 13:23Speaker 02

  I had just done Bug at Red Orchid. That was the fall of 2001. I was doing Bug at Red Orchid when 9/11 happened. And Bug ran for a while, and then the next play after Bug was Eric DeRouw. And I was not in it. I didn't direct. I had nothing to do with it, but when it opened, I would just, I'd just keep going to see it because I was fascinated by it. I'd never seen anything like it before. And, um, and at that time, that was the first play of Brett's that we did at Red Orchid. Um, so Brett was a new entity to us, and his voice is very distinctive and unique, um, I think.

• 14:06Speaker 02

  And so, yeah, I, uh, I was smitten. And then, um, you know, a lot of people think that Brett wrote this play as a response to Columbine, but he frankly, the play predates Columbine. So I don't know if he's clairvoyant or what, but that's kind of spooky.

• 14:27Josh Horowitz?

  And for those that don't know, we should say this, this does deal with the parents of a,

• 14:32Speaker 02

  Of a school shooter.

• 14:33Josh Horowitz?

  A school shooting, a school shooter, and how they deal with the grief and the coping, and how religion plays a part in community. Um, and look, I mean, I, I, it's also interesting. I'm sure you've gotten this question, but like, you, you first encounter this, correct me if I'm wrong, before you're a parent. So it probably hits a little differently for you now. Is that fair to say?

• 14:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, for sure. Although I've never, you know,

• 15:01Speaker 02

  I suppose, yeah, but it's also, you know, even if you don't have children, um, this kind of thing is very upsetting. But, uh,

• 15:13Speaker 02

  yeah, the thought that this could happen to one of my children, uh, yeah, you just, it's, it's kind of a no-fly zone, like your mind just, uh,

• 15:21Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, you don't even want to go there. Yeah.

• 15:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. So, um, yeah, but I feel like, you know, as much as it's about, uh, what it's about, uh, what you just said, um, I, I feel like it's just kind of also about.

• 15:38Speaker 02

  The general state of things in our country, as it were, and kind of this dysfunctionality that I associate with our, with our culture, you know, that, that

• 15:59Speaker 02

  that, that in a place that goes by the moniker, you know, United States of America, that people can feel so alienated and lost and lonely and disenfranchised that they continue to do things like this.

• 16:16Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 16:18Speaker 02

  It doesn't really, it's confusing to me. I find America is a very confusing country, and I feel like this film is kind of about that.

• 16:29Josh Horowitz?

  So, the plan, as I, as I understand it, though, you've never talked about like wanting to direct, having that be on the bucket list. So it's this particular material that just kind of kept drawing you back.

• 16:40Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. Yeah, I was like, uh, I couldn't help myself, which is really what it would have had to have been in order for me to do it, was because I always, I always assumed that it would just be a nightmare directing a film. But it wasn't. It's strange.

• 17:03Speaker 02

  It wasn't a nightmare at all. I always said I'd have a hard time sleeping if I directed a film. I'd just lay awake all night worrying about all the things a director is responsible for, you know, but

• 17:18Speaker 02

  I think if you surround yourself with the right artists, you know, that are all as invested as you are and, and are, are bringing everything they have to the table and It's really not, it's surprising. It's not as difficult as I thought it was gonna be.

• 17:37Josh Horowitz?

  Well, you're also, as I said before, you're mixing it up with people that you obviously love and respect and getting to kind of give them a platform to do what they do best. And I know a big part of this, a big selling point, as it should be, is to see someone we all know and love, Judy Greer, who not, not haven't necessarily seen in this kind of context before. We know she's like historically one of the funniest, you know, character actors around, but to see her front and center in something like this, and not for a moment, you know, question it. Um, as a testament to what she can do. So that just must be like day in and day out, seeing her, you know, six inches from your face, a foot from your face, doing that must be really stimulating.

• 18:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, she's so, she's so directable. Like she's such an amazing listener and she's so, she's so smart and she can pivot. Like she doesn't hold on to anything.

• 18:31Speaker 02

  Like you can really throw her a curve ball and she'll catch it. Like,

• 18:37Speaker 02

  I, you know, I've just felt an affinity with Judy, Judy ever since we, ever since we met, you know, uh, you know, we met making this film Brothersville and then we did an episode of Room 104 together and uh, yeah, I just always thought, man, she's just, she's easy to be around. Uh, she makes everybody,

• 19:01Speaker 02

  she makes everybody happy.

• 19:03Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 19:05Speaker 02

  She very, she pays attention to, to everyone else. And yeah, she's, she's a real team player.

• 19:18Josh Horowitz?

  If I had a dollar for everybody in my life who's benefited from therapy, I would be a very, very rich man. Therapy has certainly helped me, especially when I was a confused teenager and thankfully, that's not a shameful thing to say anymore, right? It's okay to seek help. And need help and talk about it. We're all doing our best. We're just trying to get by, right, guys? Unfortunately, the reality is that getting help is still harder than it should be. That's why I'm thrilled always to have Rula as a sponsor of Happy, Say I Confuse, because it's very obvious to me that online therapy should be both accessible and affordable for everybody. So let's make it easy for anybody who wants help to get help. That's where Rula comes in. Here's the thing, a lot of online therapy platforms don't actually talk about.

• 20:01Josh Horowitz?

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• 20:42Josh Horowitz?

  frustrating back and forth. They make it easy. Thousands of people are already using Rula to get affordable, high-quality therapy that's actually covered by insurance. Visit rula.com/happy to get started. That's rula, R-U-L-A dot com slash happy. You deserve mental health care that works with you, not against your budget. You guys know the best stuff in your closet is the stuff that you actually wear, right? The things that you just keep coming back to, whether you're going to work, you're going out, you're just hanging around. Well, with the holidays coming up, Quince makes it really easy to find great gifts for everyone on your list. This year, I'm doing a lot of my holiday shopping at Quince, and yes, that includes a few things for myself. That's okay, right? One of the things I love about Quince is that you're getting really high-quality stuff without

• 21:26Josh Horowitz?

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• 22:11Josh Horowitz?

  I've got a cashmere hoodie that is honestly invaluable and actually makes me look like I know what I'm talking about when it comes to fashion, and that is a miracle. So give the gift of quality this holiday season. Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. It's now available in Canada and the UK too. And when Quince asks where you've heard about them, you know what to do. Let them know it was happy, sad, confused. That's the best way to support our show.

• 22:45Josh Horowitz?

  Well, you've obviously directed a lot in theater, so you're not a stranger to directing actors. But I'm curious, on a set like this, first film experience, like, did you direct your actors, Judy and the company in a way like the way you like to be directed? Is that very conscious on your mind?

• 23:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, for me, it's a very private thing, you know?

• 23:07Speaker 02

  And it's not result oriented at all. Like, I never talk in terms of, you know, I would never go up and say, I think you should just do it a little faster. Like, I would never do that.

• 23:19Speaker 02

  It was, if anything, I was always trying to talk about it in a context of it not being a scene at all. Like, just, like genuinely saying what?

• 23:33Josh Horowitz?

  If you were in this situation, like how?

• 23:34Speaker 02

  What you wish would happen when you say this?

• 23:37Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 23:37Speaker 02

  What are you trying to get him to do? Or what, like, why are you here? You know, just like trying to make it seem like?

• 23:49Speaker 02

  You know, it's, it's, it's the thing we do. You're trying to trick yourself into, into going to wherever you're meant to be, you know?

• 24:00Speaker 02

  But it was very private. I would always go up and

• 24:05Speaker 02

  and confide in them. I didn't want everyone else to hear what I was telling them. But Judy said, she said it became a game for her to like, try and figure out what I had whispered to Alex.

• 24:22Speaker 02

  I'm gonna figure it out. I'm gonna figure out what you told him.

• 24:26Josh Horowitz?

  So is that from experience, like being on a set? Do you not like it when a director kind of like openly says something in front of other actors?

• 24:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think it's very delicate and fragile. And I think if you do that, you're robbing um the other people of the opportunity to experience that fresh, like fresh in front of the camera, you know?

• 24:49Speaker 02

  Like, it's all about being surprised.

• 24:53Speaker 02

  Like, not

• 24:57Speaker 02

  it's, it's, it's so it's such a, you know, it does a number on your head, but you're, you're really, even though everything is written down and you you know what you're supposed to say and you know what they're gonna say back. And you, you know, you're, you're trying to dispense with that or make it go away and make it feel like, you know?

• 25:18Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 25:18Speaker 02

  You don't know what's going to happen next. And that's a phenomenally difficult thing to do.

• 25:26Josh Horowitz?

  Right. All about tricking yourself and others. So the less, anything that can help that cause.

• 25:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, surprises, little surprises. Yeah.

• 25:34Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. I'm curious also, look, this is a film about the consequences of of violence, obviously. And look, you've been in films that have dealt with violence, that have been violence, have had violence involved for entertainment, you know, in the, in the pursuit of entertainment, whatever. Do like, do you have, do you have a relationship with that? Do you have, has that evolved over the years? Like, are you okay if it's just like cartoonish violence and it's just is what it is for that sake? Or are you more squeamish as you get older? I mean, I'm curious, like, does that factor in at all?

• 26:04Speaker 02

  Oh, gosh.

• 26:08Speaker 02

  Well, I'm assuming you're talking about like the World Engine movie.

• 26:13Josh Horowitz?

  Not even that. You know what I thought about too is like Bullet Tree.

• 26:16Speaker 02

  Fury and Rush?

• 26:17Josh Horowitz?

  Bullet Tree. Remember you.

• 26:19Speaker 02

  Oh yeah, Bullet Tree is very violent, isn't it? But Bullet Tree is so, um,

• 26:26Speaker 02

  I don't know, it's so obviously not.

• 26:28Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, it's a cartoon.

• 26:30Speaker 02

  Approaching reality, I mean.

• 26:33Josh Horowitz?

  I, I, look, I can deal with it. I can separate it. It, but I know some people do have issues with that. And I'm just curious if that factors in.

• 26:41Speaker 02

  It's so funny you say that because I just watched Pulp Fiction again a couple of nights ago. I hadn't seen it since it came out and I was at this little art house movie theater and they were showing, I was like, oh, I'm gonna go see that. And uh, it's just so silly. I mean, it's so violent, but it's so silly that it doesn't, you know, it didn't.

• 27:06Speaker 02

  I mean, for me, you know, violence,

• 27:11Speaker 02

  I'm, I'm always more upset by actual violence than, than film violence. I mean, I, film violence,

• 27:22Speaker 02

  I guess because I know that I really actually know how how unreal it is. I mean, like I was there. I saw, you know, all the safety coordinators and stunt coordinators and people with pads on and, oh, that's made out of rubber and this is a green screen and, you know, it's actually, you know, making film violence is one of the most tedious processes known to man. It's uh, I don't, it's not fun.

• 27:57Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, I would imagine low on the list is got is the squibs and going through all that and the.

• 28:01Speaker 02

  Oh, it's just, it's just really tedious.

• 28:04Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 28:06Speaker 02

  Um, but you know, to the extent that inspires people to be violent, you know, I don't know.

• 28:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, I I I'm not I'm not necessarily sold on that. I don't I don't.

• 28:22Speaker 02

  You know, I don't I don't have a firm opinion on it, I guess, one way or the other, but it it doesn't.

• 28:28Speaker 02

  I think there are other reasons for actual violence other than, you know, movies.

• 28:34Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. I I I took note.

• 28:36Speaker 02

  People have been being horrendously violent to one another.

• 28:41Josh Horowitz?

  Predating.

• 28:42Speaker 02

  Centuries before the advent of cinema.

• 28:45Josh Horowitz?

  This is true. This is true. Um, I noticed in your credits, you uh thank a lot of people, including two, at least two filmmakers I took note of. Ramin, Ramin Barani, who's a good, I know, good friend of yours and collaborator, and Guillermo, Guillermo del Toro, excuse me. Um, I'm just curious, like, do you show them cuts? Like, how did they, why were they thanked specifically in the?

• 29:06Speaker 02

  Well, um. Yeah, I showed the film to Ramin. Uh. He watched it two or three times. Ramin is very helpful. Uh, you know, he's in addition to being a filmmaker, he's a professor of filmmaking at Columbia University. So, and he's just so well versed in in cinema. Uh. So I really value his opinion a great deal and um. Having said that, there's nobody that I did everything they suggested. Um, but it's just nice to bounce things off people.

• 29:47Speaker 02

  But with Guillermo, I had a really extraordinary opportunity. He was in town here in New York, uh. Because they were doing a big uh exhibit at MoMA about his Pinocchio movie.

• 29:58Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 29:59Speaker 02

  Uh, there was a big uh soiree for that and I was sitting down to, I'm sitting across the table from him at dinner. And uh. I told him, I said, you know, I I made a film. He's like, you what? I like, yeah, I just. Well, when the hell am I gonna see it? I said, oh, you could come, I'm editing right now if you want to see it. He's like, I'll be there. And then God bless him, you know, he like.

• 30:29Speaker 02

  He was very busy, he came in, um, and he was very tired. He was been running around all over the place promoting Pinocchio and all that. And and he came by my editing suite and he watched the film. And, uh.

• 30:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, I had a beautiful. Response to it and. He says, Shannon. That is your movie. I see you in it. You are the only person that could have made that movie. I was like, wow. That's pretty cool.

• 31:01Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 31:02Speaker 02

  It's pretty cool thing to hear from one of the great filmmakers in the world, so. Yeah. So I thanked him.

• 31:11Josh Horowitz?

  He he is truly one of the joys to listen to talk about movies because it's just his lifeblood and he just. The passion is all positivity, it's great. That's awesome. Uh, speak, speaking of positivity, I want to hit upon something that's must be very joyous for you in recent months. Uh, the R E M experience, the tour, the the gift that keeps on giving that probably has blossomed into something way bigger than you ever imagined. It would be.

• 31:36Speaker 02

  Oh, heck, yeah.

• 31:37Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. So, I mean, is it fair to say Michael Shannon is living his best life when he is performing? R E M in front of like minded folks and now R E M is often. On stage with you, give me, put me in your head a little bit, Michael Stipe next to you, performing R E M.

• 31:55Speaker 02

  Well, I, you know, I adore Michael Stipe, he's, uh.

• 32:00Speaker 02

  He's given so much to me and so many other people, uh, through his music, through his words, um. Through his activism, through his heart, his compassion for people, you know, um, but the whole band, you know, Peter and Mike and Bill. They're just really sweet. People. Um, you're very down to earth, you know, um.

• 32:27Speaker 02

  And they, yeah, they seem to really.

• 32:32Speaker 02

  It means. It means something to them, what we're doing.

• 32:39Speaker 02

  A lot of times they talk about it, they say, we never got to listen to this music because we were always performing it. And

• 32:52Speaker 02

  I think, yeah, I think they watch the shows or they come up and participate and like, oh, yeah, yeah, we this is, look at what we did. It's pretty, pretty special. And and that, that's probably my favorite part of it is getting to

• 33:12Speaker 02

  help them appreciate even more what they did.

• 33:16Josh Horowitz?

  It also just must be for you, like, because I know you probably had that, you know, maybe hesitation worry that this would feel like a stunt and that people would come out just to like, see Michael Shannon and whatever and see it like this. And then it's obviously become like something that it's a communal love affair for R E M and for you. And it's, it's, it's, it's not a, it's not a joke. It's real and it has taken on a life of its own.

• 33:40Speaker 02

  Well, you know, I mean, the interesting thing about it is that Jason Narduzzi and I, you know, we do these and the other musicians.

• 33:51Speaker 02

  We've done a lot of, we've performed a lot of albums over the years.

• 33:57Speaker 02

  But they've always been one off, you know, we do one show. And we did Murmur at a Metro in Chicago. And it wasn't our idea to tour it at all. Like it was

• 34:14Speaker 02

  other promoters reaching out and asking us if we would do it. It wasn't like I thought. It wasn't my idea. So or Jason's idea. But when the, when the requests started coming in, you know, we said, well, why not?

• 34:35Josh Horowitz?

  Crazy.

• 34:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, it wasn't my idea.

• 34:47Speaker 04

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• 35:16Speaker 05

  You've got your favorite blanket, a freshly poured drink, and a cold case burning a hole in your streaming queue. You're not just watching true crime, you're running the investigation from the comfort of your couch. Welcome to Murder She Watched, the podcast where we recap, dissect, and slightly overanalyze some of the best and craziest true crime documentaries on our favorite streamers. Did the spouse do it? Why is the shady neighbor wearing leather gloves in July? Why did this guy agree to be interviewed in this documentary? We ask the tough questions that you're often just screaming at your TV. So every week, we break down the twists, red herrings, and absurd documentaries that have kept you up all night.

• 36:00Speaker 05

  It's high drama, cozy vibes, and absolute couch detective energy. Grab your throw blanket and hit subscribe. Search Murder She Watched wherever you listen to podcasts, and let's solve this thing together.

• 36:18Josh Horowitz?

  I have some random stuff that's surprising. We've never covered in our many, many conversations here, in no particular order. Oscar nominee twice. Is that a stressful evening, the two times you've gone to the Oscars as a nominee? Or is it, I mean, I guess the good or bad side of it is like both years, as I looked back, it was pretty clear at the time, like there were, it was Heath, it was Mahershala, they were winning everything. So did you even like have that stress of like, oh, the 3% chance I go on stage, what the hell am I going to say? Or were you able to chill out?

• 36:51Speaker 02

  You know, I'm always pretty much in any situation remarkably calm.

• 36:58Josh Horowitz?

  That's good. That's a good quality.

• 37:02Speaker 02

  I mean, you're correct in saying that I was told um

• 37:08Speaker 02

  in both instances that if if I actually won the award, it would probably mean the end of days or in the times.

• 37:16Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 37:17Speaker 02

  It would be a cataclysmic event.

• 37:20Josh Horowitz?

  Right. You're an Instagram and an Oscar winner. Yeah.

• 37:23Speaker 02

  The undead coming up from the the vaults of the pyramids to eat our flesh.

• 37:29Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, I'd like to thank my agents and the apocalypse, the zombies that are storming the earth. Yeah.

• 37:35Speaker 02

  Outside of you. Yeah. And they're like, yeah, he's gonna win rehearsals, you know. Which I didn't really have any feelings about. I mean, the first time I went, I I I wasn't real smart about it because I

• 37:54Speaker 02

  I I I guess I was so tickled to be invited that I

• 38:02Speaker 02

  I was I was illiberal in my in my drinking.

• 38:07Josh Horowitz?

  Got it. So you weren't quite able to enjoy?

• 38:09Speaker 02

  I was sloshed. I was totally sloshed.

• 38:12Josh Horowitz?

  Got it. Okay, there's a lesson learned.

• 38:15Speaker 02

  I wasn't sloshed. The second time I'd I'd learned my lesson.

• 38:19Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. Good thing you didn't win, especially that first time.

• 38:22Speaker 02

  Drink at all. What?

• 38:23Josh Horowitz?

  Good thing. Good thing you didn't win the first time. That might that would have been ugly on stage.

• 38:28Speaker 02

  But I'd been told I wasn't going to win.

• 38:30Josh Horowitz?

  I don't believe. Are we now justifying your sloshiness? We don't want that. No.

• 38:34Speaker 02

  But Hollywood's so predictable.

• 38:38Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. No, we we knew. We knew. Okay, speaking of memorable memorable events, memorable shows, we've never talked about this, and I'm fascinated by this story. When you were on Broadway in Grace with great Paul Rudd and others, is it true?

• 38:51Speaker 02

  Ed Asner.

• 38:53Josh Horowitz?

  Was Ed Asner in that production? Oh, my gosh. Amazing. Um, an audience member in the balcony.

• 39:00Speaker 02

  Grew up. Yes.

• 39:01Josh Horowitz?

  Over the balcony, onto someone downstairs.

• 39:05Speaker 02

  This isn't a news story.

• 39:07Josh Horowitz?

  I've never heard it from you.

• 39:08Speaker 02

  You're gonna bring up next, you know, the McCarthy era. What's

• 39:13Josh Horowitz?

  You were you there? Were you there, Michael?

• 39:16Speaker 02

  I'm supposed to be in a movie about McCarthy, but

• 39:19Josh Horowitz?

  I saw that.

• 39:21Speaker 02

  The financing.

• 39:22Josh Horowitz?

  You're you're in your elder statesman years. You're doing Supreme Court justices, presidents, Joseph McCarthy, all the all the great.

• 39:31Speaker 02

  I'm pivoting.

• 39:32Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. Wait, don't distract. I want the vomit story. How to put what was it like?

• 39:37Speaker 02

  Why would you think I'd have a story about that? I was on stage.

• 39:41Josh Horowitz?

  But you're that's a very unique position to be in for a moment like that. Did you know what was happening? Did it's? I don't know.

• 39:49Speaker 02

  I didn't. I didn't know what was happening. I heard noise in the audience and it was during a very delicate moment in the play that was difficult to do. And I was kind of irritated by it, by all the noise. But, you know, it's it's not uncommon in the Broadway houses for for people to make noise.

• 40:11Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 40:12Speaker 02

  Because, you know, a lot of people come and people with all different degrees of etiquette. And, uh, yeah, so I was just, I was kind of bummed out that there was all this noise going on. Then I walked off stage and the stage manager was there. I was like, why is it so noisy? And, um, and he said, oh, somebody. I think somebody's sick. I said, oh, okay. Well, that makes sense. And, yeah.

• 40:39Josh Horowitz?

  Well, the the truth is, it it was me, and I just wanted to make amends and apologize all these years later. That's the twist.

• 40:45Speaker 02

  I were you actually sick? Did you have like a stomach bug? Because you don't have to apologize for that. You can't. There's nothing you can do about that.

• 40:53Josh Horowitz?

  I just. No, no, you didn't know me then, and I was trying to get your attention. I didn't know. I didn't know I needed a podcast to get your attention. At the time, I thought this was the only way.

• 41:05Speaker 02

  You still don't really have my attention. I mean, the second, the second this is over, I'll forget it ever happened.

• 41:12Josh Horowitz?

  Why? Why? Why are you so mean?

• 41:17Josh Horowitz?

  What did I do to deserve this?

• 41:19Speaker 02

  It's so easy to be seen.

• 41:21Josh Horowitz?

  When's the last time you had to audition? Do you remember your last audition? Michael Shannon doesn't audition anymore. Do you remember the last one?

• 41:28Speaker 02

  I auditioned for that movie Nebraska, but I didn't get it.

• 41:33Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 41:34Speaker 02

  That was a while ago.

• 41:35Josh Horowitz?

  That's a long time ago. Yeah, it's probably at least 10, 12 years ago. Okay. Alexander.

• 41:40Speaker 02

  I auditioned, I auditioned for a musical, but I didn't get that either.

• 41:47Josh Horowitz?

  You were gonna be in Wicked?

• 41:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:51Speaker 02

  For a Felba.

• 41:53Josh Horowitz?

  Alphabet, alphabet.

• 41:57Josh Horowitz?

  What are you showing?

• 42:00Josh Horowitz?

  Doesn't work that way. Wait, um, have you seen Wicked? By the way, did the kids make you see it?

• 42:06Speaker 02

  They went to see it with other people.

• 42:08Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 42:09Speaker 02

  That's the benefit of having extended family. You don't have to, you can poist it off on somebody else.

• 42:16Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 42:16Speaker 02

  No offense to anybody involved with Wicked. I'm sure it's an astonishing motion picture, but it's just not my cup of tea, you know?

• 42:23Josh Horowitz?

  Let me guess, your favorite movie of 2024?

• 42:27Speaker 02

  Oh, I'm curious for you to actually guess this.

• 42:30Josh Horowitz?

  You're a, you're a brutalist guy.

• 42:32Speaker 02

  That wasn't my favorite movie of 2024.

• 42:34Josh Horowitz?

  Did you like it?

• 42:37Speaker 02

  It's really weird. I went to see the brutalist, uh, Christmas Day night, and it was kind of like the perfect thing. Because

• 42:49Speaker 02

  I needed, I needed, I needed somewhere to go. So it kind of did the job. Um, yeah, I, I dug it all right.

• 42:57Josh Horowitz?

  Wait, wait.

• 43:00Josh Horowitz?

  Wait, I have one question. I'm just tracking this now. Christmas Eve, you, you spent.

• 43:05Speaker 02

  Not Christmas Eve. That's why I specifically said Christmas Day night. Christmas Eve is the night before Christmas.

• 43:14Josh Horowitz?

  Okay. I'm a Jew. I'm not familiar with how this stuff works.

• 43:16Speaker 02

  The night of Christmas, I don't know how to refer to it.

• 43:22Speaker 02

  So Christmas Eve, we had had the the big dinner and then Christmas morning you open all the presents and then it's it kind of peters out.

• 43:30Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 43:30Speaker 02

  Weird nebulous like. Well, that happened. So that's when I went to see the brutalists.

• 43:39Josh Horowitz?

  Was I want to pry too much. Are you alone seeing the brutalist Christmas?

• 43:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, I was alone. I was alone.

• 43:45Josh Horowitz?

  I just wanted to set the scene. Okay, Christmas night, birth of Christ, we're celebrating. With the brutalist.

• 43:50Speaker 02

  Well, it didn't celebrate it. It was over.

• 43:53Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, there's no judgment. I'm just for for posterity. So the historians know what happened. I want it. Yeah, sorry. You were continuing. So your favorite movie of 2024 was?

• 44:05Speaker 02

  Soundtrack to a coup d'etat.

• 44:07Josh Horowitz?

  I'm ashamed. I haven't seen it and I've heard amazing things. It's great. Yeah.

• 44:13Speaker 02

  Don't make me repeat myself. I just told you what my favorite movie of 2024 was and you're asking if it's great.

• 44:20Josh Horowitz?

  No, this is a way of getting.

• 44:22Speaker 02

  Favorite movie of 2024 is some piece of shit.

• 44:28Josh Horowitz?

  I can play. You want to play this game? I'll play this game.

• 44:34Speaker 02

  I'm wearing socks that Hermes mountain dogs on.

• 44:37Josh Horowitz?

  You're you're you blurred out your background. So every time something comes into frame, it's hard to see like. I can't see it. I can't see it. I don't want you to injure yourself. Oh, that's great. That's okay. That's really good. It's it's a little blurry, but I'm gonna take.

• 44:50Speaker 02

  I don't want you to know where I am. I'm in Guantanamo.

• 44:55Josh Horowitz?

  It wouldn't shock me. Hey, we got a few more random stuff for you before I let you go. Did you have much time with Sidney Lumet on this on the set of Before the Devil Knows You're Dead? What was it like to work with Sidney Lumet, the great, before we lost him sadly? I mean, that must have been a moment.

• 45:12Speaker 02

  Oh, I love him. I love Sidney Lumet. Sidney Lumet was amazing because he would. You know, there's no monitors on his set. So he'd get, he'd get a little perch on the dolly and he would literally sit right next to the lens. So the lens is here and Sydney's here. And he would sit and he would watch.

• 45:34Josh Horowitz?

  Nice.

• 45:34Speaker 02

  I was doing a take once. It was a three shot of me and Ethan and Alexa Palladino. The wide at the table there. And I said something to Ethan. I was looking at Ethan, I said something and I heard a little heh heh. And Sydney was saying heh heh. I was like, oh wow, I just made Sydney Lament laugh during a take.

• 45:59Josh Horowitz?

  Amazing.

• 45:59Speaker 02

  But he was very sweet. He signed some copies of his book for me to use at a benefit for my theater. That was the last time I saw him. Actually, I went to his office and he, and he signed a couple of copies of, of his book for me. Very sweet.

• 46:16Josh Horowitz?

  Did you, um, did you know Philip Seymour Hoffman? Well, or

• 46:20Speaker 02

  Well, Phil directed me in a play.

• 46:22Josh Horowitz?

  Oh.

• 46:23Speaker 02

  Uh, called Little Flower of East Orange. And then of course Phil's in Before the Devil Knows You're Dead.

• 46:29Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 46:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, I knew Phil. I knew Phil. Yeah.

• 46:33Josh Horowitz?

  All right. They, they tell me your time is short, so I'm going to go right to the most important part, the happy say I confuse profoundly random questions. Michael, you ready?

• 46:41Speaker 02

  Great.

• 46:42Josh Horowitz?

  Here we go. Dogs or cats?

• 46:46Speaker 02

  Cats.

• 46:48Josh Horowitz?

  This explains a lot about our relationship. Okay, that's fine. Uh, what do you collect?

• 46:56Speaker 02

  Regrets.

• 46:59Josh Horowitz?

  You know, I, I interviewed Nathan Lane last night. He had the exact same answer. You two share that in common.

• 47:06Josh Horowitz?

  Good to know.

• 47:07Speaker 02

  It doesn't surprise me.

• 47:10Josh Horowitz?

  Uh, what's your favorite video game of all time?

• 47:16Speaker 02

  Hubert.

• 47:18Josh Horowitz?

  That's good. I like Hubert. Yeah.

• 47:21Speaker 02

  No Burger Time.

• 47:24Josh Horowitz?

  That's a good one, too. Yeah, yeah.

• 47:26Speaker 02

  No Elevator Action.

• 47:28Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, just now you're, would you, this is the Dakota Johnson memorial question. She asked me this, uh, would you rather have a mouthful of bees or one bee in your butt?

• 47:42Josh Horowitz?

  You're frozen. You're frozen.

• 47:45Speaker 02

  I don't understand. Dakota Johnson asked you that, or you asked her that?

• 47:49Josh Horowitz?

  She asked me that. I was asking her some stupid questions, as I want to do, and she said, I've got a stupid one for you that I like to ask, and that's she asked me that.

• 48:00Speaker 02

  I love bees. I don't mind. They can be wherever.

• 48:03Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, that's good to know.

• 48:05Speaker 02

  Bees get a bad rap. One day, we're gonna be like, oh, my God, where did all the bees go?

• 48:10Josh Horowitz?

  It's true.

• 48:11Speaker 02

  Die.

• 48:12Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, let's not. What's the wallpaper on your phone?

• 48:17Speaker 02

  Right now?

• 48:18Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 48:22Speaker 02

  An old picture of Michael Stipe.

• 48:24Josh Horowitz?

  Right. Why are you answering it like you're in trouble? It's okay. It's good. It's a good answer.

• 48:31Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, it's kind of creepy, though. I should probably change it.

• 48:36Josh Horowitz?

  Uh, last actor you were mistaken for?

• 48:41Speaker 02

  Well, last? I don't know last. I've been mistaken for lots of people.

• 48:46Josh Horowitz?

  Who's the most frequent one? Who's the most bizarre one?

• 48:51Speaker 02

  Well, you already know this.

• 48:53Josh Horowitz?

  Remind me.

• 48:56Speaker 02

  Why? You already know this.

• 48:58Josh Horowitz?

  I don't remember. I do know this.

• 48:59Speaker 02

  Recycled material, recycled bits, Josh.

• 49:02Josh Horowitz?

  No, I don't remember. I truly don't remember.

• 49:04Speaker 02

  Uh, a lot of people over the years have said I looked like Richard Keel. Who played Jaws in the James Bond movies. I've heard that I look like Quentin Tarantino.

• 49:19Josh Horowitz?

  I don't see that one.

• 49:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, Willem Dafoe, I've heard. Some people say, hey, you were in Spider-Man. I'm like, no. You're confused.

• 49:29Josh Horowitz?

  For the record, I don't remember.

• 49:30Speaker 02

  I'm Dr. Z.

• 49:33Josh Horowitz?

  You're not Dr. Z. You're a general.

• 49:41Josh Horowitz?

  What's the worst noted director has ever given you?

• 49:50Speaker 02

  Well, I don't, my favorite note, it, I don't know, it's my favorite.

• 49:57Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, I'll take it. I'll take whatever you got.

• 50:01Speaker 02

  Was when Werner Herzog came in and he said, "That was quite lame."

• 50:12Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, okay. And in that voice, no less.

• 50:15Speaker 02

  Well, I didn't do the impersonation. I can't do impersonations. No, he is more, had more, had more juice on it. I, I'm doing just this straightforward version.

• 50:28Josh Horowitz?

  I appreciate it. It's okay. And in the spirit of happy, sad confused, who's an actor you see on screen that always makes you happy?

• 50:39Josh Horowitz?

  Did you hear the question?

• 50:40Speaker 02

  Uh, Christopher Walken.

• 50:41Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, great. Um, a movie that makes you sad?

• 50:49Josh Horowitz?

  What, what are you doing with your, what, why are you being like this? What happened?

• 50:54Speaker 02

  Movie that makes me sad?

• 50:57Speaker 02

  Transformers.

• 51:00Josh Horowitz?

  There it is. There, we got there. Yeah. It's sad when, when Megatron and Optimus can't get along.

• 51:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:08Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, that's tough. And a food that makes you confused?

• 51:16Speaker 02

  Food that makes me confused? Wow.

• 51:20Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, it's all recycled material, Josh. These are old questions. No, we're pushing. We're trying new shit.

• 51:26Speaker 02

  Food that makes me confused?

• 51:34Speaker 02

  Um, chicken nuggets that don't have any chicken in them.

• 51:39Josh Horowitz?

  All breading? It's just like, what, what's?

• 51:41Speaker 02

  No, it's like made out of corn or something.

• 51:43Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, I see. Like a vegan chicken nugget. What's the point? Yeah.

• 51:49Josh Horowitz?

  That's great. That's gonna, that's gonna change lives, that answer. Thank you for that. Um, Michael, it's been an absolute delight. I'm gonna speak for you and say, yes, it was a delight, Josh. This has been really transformative for me.

• 52:04Josh Horowitz?

  I feel different than when we started. Me too. Not in a good way, but different. I need to go to the bathroom. Yeah, I have that effect on people. Um, Eric Larue is a great piece of work. I'm very happy for you. I'm happy for the world that we get it in theaters April 4th. And then I think soon thereafter on demand, all that kind of fun stuff, but give it support. These kind of movies need your support. If you love what this man does like I do. Spread the good word. I thank you, sir. It's good to see you. Thanks, Josh. Thanks for helping us out. Anytime, anytime.

• 52:40Speaker 03

  And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley and I definitely wasn't prepared to do this by Josh.

• 52:59Speaker 06

  What if the imaginary world you created as a child became real and wanted you back? That's the mystery at the heart of sagas of sundry Darkling Gate, a cinematic Call of Cthulhu actual play series where Jane Austen's social drama collides with cosmic horror.

• 53:17Speaker 07

  The year is 1816, the year without a summer. Three siblings and their companion are drawn to a gloomy country estate beside an ancient forest in the English countryside.

• 53:27Speaker 08

  In its darkened halls, memories of the fanciful Wonderland created by their dead brother begin manifesting in increasingly terrifying ways.

• 53:35Speaker 09

  Expect ballroom courtships, dangerous family secrets, strange relics, occult rituals, and horrors no human mind was ever meant to comprehend.

• 53:45Speaker 10

  If you like Gothic mysteries, Regency romance, immersive role playing, horror that follows you long after the story ends, step through the Darkling Gate.

• 53:56Speaker 06

  Watch on Geek and Sundry's YouTube channel or listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and wherever you get your podcasts.