Porsche Sells Bugatti, US Bans Chinese Cars, Trouble At Stellantis And More! THIS CAR POD EP109!

Have a question you want answered on the podcast next week? Ask HERE https://crsnbds.com/PODQUESTIONS Welcome to THIS CAR POD! Doug DeMuro & Friends offers weekly expert insight and opinion on breaking automotive stories, the car market, and audience Q&A. Thank you to our sponsors! Quo - Try Quo For Free Plus 20% Off Your First 6 Months at https://Quo.com/CARS Mothers - Enter to win 1 of 5 Mothers x Cars & Bids Detailer Bags, a $100 Merch Gift Card, and a Ceramic Care Suite! Giveaway runs 5/1 – 5/31 Enter here: https://mothers.com/pages/giveaways Warby Parker - Right now, buy one prescription pair and get 20% off any additional prescription pairs at https://www.warbyparker.com/cars DirtFish - Bid now to support DirtFish Women in Motorsport charity auctions at https://carsandbids.com/user/DirtFishWomeninMotorsport Chapters: 00:00:00 This Car Pod! 00:00:14 Porsche Sells Bugatti 00:06:24 Chinese Cars Are Here 00:13:55 Chinese V8 00:19:07 Why Ford Killed Shelby 00:22:52 Stellantis To Focus On Four Brands 00:28:06 Promaster Lawsuit 00:29:13 Doug Went To Mothers 00:33:03 Talk Cars! 00:33:24 Doug's Peaked For 2-Seaters 00:44:27 La Jolla Concours 00:50:40 Kennan Drove A Mach-1 00:57:45 Market Report 00:58:08 Lotus Elan 00:58:34 Ford Fiesta ST 00:59:49 Dirt Fish Auctions 01:00:38 Community Questions 01:01:16 Should The Miata Go Mid Engine? 01:03:05 Would You Buy A Car From A Competing Site? 01:05:32 If You Remade Your Ferrari 360 Video Today, What Would You Choose? 01:08:50 Why Did You Review A Base Tesla Model Y? 01:10:55 Did You Know The Mazda 3 Designer Is Running For Senate? 01:13:20 Key EarthRoamer Video Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:29Speaker 01

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• 1:04Doug DeMuro?

  Hello and welcome to This Car Pod. I'm Kenan.

• 1:09Speaker 04

  I'm Filippo.

• 1:09Doug DeMuro?

  I'm Doug. Ryan Lopez is off camera. Let's start with the news. Yes, Bugatti is the big news story of the week. Porsche is divesting. You heard about this?

• 1:20Speaker 04

  Of course.

• 1:20Doug DeMuro?

  This is a big story. Porsche has had some financial troubles. They used to make a lot of money. Now they make very little money. They decided to sell their stake in Bugatti to private equity.

• 1:32Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 1:32Doug DeMuro?

  You don't have any thoughts on this?

• 1:34Speaker 04

  I mean, they're, just for context on them as a whole, operating profits in Q1 were down 22% every year. They do maybe need some cash.

• 1:41Doug DeMuro?

  Porsche needs some cash. Their profits fell something like 90% between 24 and 25. They only made $479 million last year. That's all they made.

• 1:51Speaker 04

  It's a tough life out there.

• 1:52Doug DeMuro?

  It's tough. To be fair, their expenses must be unbelievable. Revenue was like this and expenses were like this. You've seen the factory. Yeah. They got a lot of German fellows in overalls. They got that bridge. Yep.

• 2:05Speaker 04

  That's expensive to maintain.

• 2:07Doug DeMuro?

  So.

• 2:08Speaker 04

  Heating and winter.

• 2:09Doug DeMuro?

  They sold their stake in Bugatti and Rimac, which is like the same. I've never really understood it.

• 2:13Speaker 04

  A few years ago, there was a joint venture of Bugatti and Rimac.

• 2:15Doug DeMuro?

  I've never really understood it, and now I don't have to. It's all sold.

• 2:20Speaker 04

  But you still have to understand the joint venture.

• 2:22Doug DeMuro?

  I don't.

• 2:23Speaker 04

  JV, come on.

• 2:23Doug DeMuro?

  Do that. So, so is Porsche and is Volkswagen completely out of Bugatti now?

• 2:29Speaker 04

  I remember there being a weird situation where, yeah, sorry Volkswagen is fully out of everything Bugatti Rimauts.

• 2:36Speaker 05

  Wow.

• 2:37Doug DeMuro?

  That's a big deal.

• 2:38Speaker 05

  That is a big deal because that's, I mean Volkswagen is what resurrected Bugatti in essence, gave us the Veyron and started the whole thing.

• 2:44Doug DeMuro?

  Is that true Felipe?

• 2:45Speaker 04

  No more Volkswagen and Bugatti.

• 2:47Doug DeMuro?

  So, um, what's gonna happen?

• 2:49Speaker 04

  Uh, I don't know, but HOH Capital, Hoff Capital, very proud of Bugatti, it's like up there in their list of portfolio companies now.

• 2:57Doug DeMuro?

  Oh god.

• 2:57Speaker 04

  They own a 45% stake, the Rimauts grew, but on the 55% stake, obviously. Uh, I suspect nothing will happen.

• 3:04Doug DeMuro?

  This is it. So the Volkswagen lineup went, this is sad because the Volkswagen lineup went from the very lowest tier company, Skoda, all the way up.

• 3:13Speaker 04

  Seat.

• 3:14Doug DeMuro?

  Huh?

• 3:15Speaker 04

  Seat.

• 3:16Doug DeMuro?

  No, I said what I said, all the way up to Bugatti at the very, very top, right?

• 3:19Speaker 05

  Yeah, that is a wide.

• 3:20Doug DeMuro?

  They had Lamborghini, oh, you could go Lamborghini, Bentley, the whole, there was this whole gamut and, and, wait, they have Opel, right?

• 3:26Speaker 04

  Uh, no, Salinas has Opel.

• 3:28Doug DeMuro?

  Oh, right, okay. Because that would have been the, yeah.

• 3:31Speaker 05

  Seat still exists.

• 3:33Doug DeMuro?

  Nope. Nope. Um, and now they, there's, Bugatti's gone, Lamborghini is our pinnacle brand.

• 3:41Speaker 04

  To be clear, Bugatti's still around.

• 3:42Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, but, but, let me tell you something, you know what happens when private equity owns a car company? They, they, it's, it's not Volkswagen, the thing that made Volkswagen special with Bugatti, at least when I was a boy, was that Volkswagen had this fellow named Ferdinand, like the Bull, and he was in there at the, at the Bugatti, and he just decided that he would spend whatever it took to create this absolute iconic world-class ultra-car that was the fastest thing anybody had ever imagined. And private equity has the exact opposite opinions, do you know what I mean? Like, they lost money, I mean, Porsche straight, Volkswagen straight, lost a ton of money on Bugatti. Yeah.

• 4:27Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 4:28Doug DeMuro?

  Initially, presumably they've made money since then.

• 4:30Speaker 04

  I think they helped amortize costs.

• 4:33Doug DeMuro?

  So what, now it's all over. Plus, they can't share. I mean, remember, the Veyron had a Passat key fob.

• 4:38Speaker 04

  They may very well still have some parts sharing. You can do that even if you're not co-owned.

• 4:42Doug DeMuro?

  I know, but we're all sad about it.

• 4:44Speaker 04

  I don't have any emotion whatsoever about it.

• 4:46Speaker 05

  Well, I'm shocked at that. You don't have emotion about a nice thing. I'm stunned.

• 4:50Doug DeMuro?

  Or anything at all.

• 4:51Speaker 05

  Or anything.

• 4:51Doug DeMuro?

  You wrote Bugatti in your mind isn't a special thing. Like, when I think of the car world, I think of Bugatti as sort of the pinnacle brand. And the cool thing about Bugatti, the cool thing about Koenigsegg was that you could meet the guy. The cool thing about Bugatti was that it was developed by a real company, if we're honest.

• 5:08Speaker 04

  I feel like in 2021, when the joint venture with Rimats was created and like ownership went to Porsche for a portion of it.

• 5:15Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 5:15Speaker 04

  And then the Rimats grew for the rest. That already changed the fundamental.

• 5:18Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, but Porsche is Volkswagen. Volkswagen is Porsche. They have been ever since they were making cars for that fella.

• 5:24Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 5:24Doug DeMuro?

  Back in the 40s.

• 5:25Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 5:25Doug DeMuro?

  My, my view on this remains.

• 5:27Speaker 04

  Hey, what fella?

• 5:28Doug DeMuro?

  Uh, you know, you remember him.

• 5:29Speaker 05

  You know, the more I hear about that guy, the more I don't like him.

• 5:32Doug DeMuro?

  The, the point, the point remains Volkswagen is out.

• 5:36Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 5:37Doug DeMuro?

  What is, what a.

• 5:38Speaker 04

  They did say when they started their joint venture, like, we're combining the like new technological aspects of Rimats, which is doing a lot of EVs at the time, uh, with the like expertise that we, as the Porsche brand and Volkswagen have in building cars.

• 5:52Doug DeMuro?

  Don't you just trust Bugatti less now? Any desire I had to have a Veyron, which was actually some desire, some actual desire, definitely have kicked it around. I have less desire today.

• 6:02Speaker 05

  Yeah, there will, yeah, without any support for those cars. I mean.

• 6:05Speaker 04

  They still exist. They're still maybe French, maybe Italian, maybe Croatian. We don't know.

• 6:10Speaker 05

  Volkswagen had the money.

• 6:11Speaker 04

  We never understood.

• 6:12Speaker 05

  Volkswagen had the money to spend to keep stuff around for the Veyron. That's not gonna, I don't see that happening going forward.

• 6:18Speaker 04

  Still a billion dollar brand. That, that's a guess for what Bugatti.

• 6:20Speaker 05

  I mean, yes, but it will eventually be a car that was made, you know, 30, 40 years ago. At some point in the world, are we really going to continue to support this thing? Volkswagen might have said yes to keep the brand.

• 6:28Doug DeMuro?

  They were only briefly Italian. And it was a completely different operating. But you hear Bugatti, you feel them.

• 6:34Speaker 05

  The factory was beautiful. No, no, that's a common misconception.

• 6:38Doug DeMuro?

  I know.

• 6:40Speaker 05

  They're French.

• 6:40Doug DeMuro?

  They, a company, this guy in Italy, his name was Romano Artioli. He bought Bugatti for a brief period and moved the whole thing to Italy. Smart. And then it all went belly up and then Volkswagen bought the remnants of him and brought it all back to what they consider to be France.

• 6:59Speaker 05

  In great Italian tradition, it completely failed. And the factory was beautiful, and it's still there.

• 7:05Doug DeMuro?

  What is Romano Artioli's legacy?

• 7:08Speaker 05

  The Lotus Elise, the name for the Lotus Elise.

• 7:10Doug DeMuro?

  His granddaughter. He owned Lotus and named the Lotus Elise after his granddaughter. Regardless, it is now Bugatti no longer.

• 7:17Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 7:18Doug DeMuro?

  Part of it. But they have some private equity money and that's gonna work. Everything's gonna go great. Can't wait for the tour beyond. Move on to the next news story. Oh, Chinese cars. My god. Chinese cars have been absolutely blowing up. I go to the Wall Street Journal. Not literally. Front page of the Wall Street Journal there. And, uh, no, they're not blowing up. My god, quite the opposite. They're very nice. The party, the party will be happy with us.

• 7:43Speaker 05

  That's right.

• 7:44Doug DeMuro?

  I go to the front page of the Wall Street Journal and there's an article about Chinese cars and I click on the article, which I was interviewed for apparently on background.

• 7:53Doug DeMuro?

  No, it was fine. I love the guy. You could've given him a better quote. It was all good. Yeah, I know. I don't have much interesting to say. However, I click on the article, go through the article, and I've discovered something interesting. Some of the Democrats, those are the people in the Congress, have introduced the most ridiculous bill where they want to ban Chinese cars, not only from the US where they're essentially already banned for a variety of reasons from being built or made or sold, but from even entering the United States. It is a wild, by the way, Bernie Moreno, who owns a lot of car dealerships in Ohio, remember he serves.

• 8:27Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 8:28Doug DeMuro?

  He also is in support of this. He's part of it too. Big surprise. Yeah. But like Jamie Raskin, who's like one of your lib heroes, is part of it. And, and even entering, so here's, here's what they're gonna do if the libs get their way. Here's what they're gonna do, okay? The, um... You're coming over, you're a tourist from Mexico, which, by the way, here in San Diego, I see a Mexican car, it's the most frequent license plate I see aside from California, right? Do you agree? I mean, there are hundreds and hundreds I see every single day. And a good portion are Chinese cars.

• 8:58Speaker 04

  Because they have a compelling product that's sold to Mexico.

• 9:01Doug DeMuro?

  You come up to the border, okay, you're in a Kia Rio, you're good, you can go over. Oh, you're in a car, let's check the VIN, it starts with L, I'm so sorry, you can't come over. You're just a tourist driving a car, you're not allowed to bring it into America for a day to go to SeaWorld.

• 9:17Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 9:18Doug DeMuro?

  Because people are so stupid.

• 9:20Speaker 04

  I want to give a little bit of context because it's vaguely important. So, right now, Chinese cars, if they are broadly not allowed in the US and face very steep tariffs if they do come. And the Trump administration has basically said, on top of those tariffs, we won't allow some manufacturers.

• 9:36Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 9:37Speaker 04

  Generally, I'm oversimplifying a little bit. He, President Trump, opened the door a little bit during a speech a few weeks ago, saying, maybe we can, with the right terms, allow some Chinese manufacturing, if they manufacture them in the US, but they're a Chinese brand.

• 9:50Doug DeMuro?

  Which I totally support.

• 9:51Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 9:52Doug DeMuro?

  We'd allow it for the Koreans.

• 9:54Speaker 04

  Right. And there's been a little bit of a reaction to that, of both Democrats and Republicans, but Democrats wrote that letter, saying, no, we shouldn't allow the Chinese cars here under any condition.

• 10:04Doug DeMuro?

  Jamie Raskin, who seemed until today like a fairly reasonable individual, views Chinese cars even driving in America as an existential threat to the car industry. And why is that? It's because someone might see them and say, damn, that's a pretty good car. Jamie Raskin's ex, by the way, he's a congressman from suburban Maryland, there's no production in his district. He avuses an existential threat that we might see Chinese cars and decide, oh, they're actually not so bad.

• 10:33Speaker 04

  Yeah, which by the way, is a premise of that Wall Street Journal article, in the border towns, they name El Paso, but San Diego is true here too. You see those cars, and they are appealing.

• 10:42Doug DeMuro?

  When I was interviewed for this article, I was on the phone while I was driving, Sean's G-Wagon, actually, and I told the, at the end of our interview, I told Ryan Felton, who wrote the story, I told him I'd seen several Chinese cars while we... We're talking.

• 10:54Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 10:56Doug DeMuro?

  But we're a band now. They can't even drive over the border.

• 10:58Speaker 04

  By the way, my, I do feel for the people that drive Buick Envisions or the

• 11:03Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, what about that? What about that? Imagine if Jamie Raskin, of course, has no idea about any of this stuff, but imagine if he knew there are already Chinese cars. They've already infiltrated the Buick Envision has already infiltrated our country.

• 11:15Speaker 04

  And the long wheelbase S90.

• 11:17Doug DeMuro?

  And presumably some number of Teslas that were built in China and sold in Canada, which was allowed. They've come over the border. God knows where they are now.

• 11:26Speaker 04

  Oh, no.

• 11:26Doug DeMuro?

  Aren't there even probably other Volvos? There were probably some Volvos.

• 11:29Speaker 04

  The S90 was built there. I think for a little while, Polestar 2 is built in China.

• 11:33Doug DeMuro?

  Oh, my God.

• 11:34Speaker 04

  Don't hold me to that.

• 11:35Doug DeMuro?

  Jamie Raskin, we gotta ban the Polestar 2. Don't worry, though. The consumer, the car buying public has already done.

• 11:44Speaker 04

  Can I read a quote from Bob Lutz? Cause I sent this to you earlier, but I find it to be one of the best quotes.

• 11:48Doug DeMuro?

  Okay, go ahead.

• 11:49Speaker 04

  Bob Lutz, can you describe Bob Lutz?

• 11:52Speaker 05

  He's like the quintessential American.

• 11:56Speaker 04

  He was an auto executive. Also wild.

• 11:59Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 11:59Speaker 04

  Says a lot of things. He said that he had an epiphany earlier this decade about how.

• 12:04Doug DeMuro?

  When is this? Bob Lutz is, I'm looking at 94. When is this quote from?

• 12:07Speaker 05

  1993.

• 12:08Speaker 04

  The quote is for the, in preparation for this article.

• 12:11Doug DeMuro?

  You're kidding? Bob Lutz is still giving interviews?

• 12:13Speaker 04

  I believe so. That's what that, that's what it was. Apparently in this article, he's quoted as saying that earlier this decade, he had an epiphany about how advanced Beijing had become. When he bought a Chinese made Buick Envision.

• 12:25Doug DeMuro?

  Bob Lutz purchased a Buick Envision.

• 12:27Speaker 04

  With, because of the total silkiness and sweet refinement. He said, I thought, boy, if they know how to make Buicks like this in China, they obviously know how to make great cars.

• 12:35Doug DeMuro?

  Pull up a picture of the Buick Envision. For those of you who don't know, the Buick Envision is the single most mediocre vehicle manufactured and sold in the United States in the last 15 years.

• 12:45Speaker 04

  Please go back to, yeah, I mean, honestly, any of them, but the first, yes.

• 12:49Doug DeMuro?

  But it was, it was that one that was really so offensive. Boy, I'll tell you, Bob Lutz, if they can build a Buick like this one, America doesn't stand a chance.

• 13:00Speaker 05

  It really stirs the soul.

• 13:01Doug DeMuro?

  180 horsepower, 2.0. Four liter, four cylinder, and the cloth seats were pre-stained.

• 13:07Speaker 04

  The total silkiness and sweet refinement of the vehicle.

• 13:11Doug DeMuro?

  The truth, the truth of the matter is, of course, this car was not available to consumers because it was such a big hit with Hertz, Avis.

• 13:18Speaker 04

  There weren't any left over.

• 13:19Doug DeMuro?

  What a shame.

• 13:20Speaker 04

  Couldn't buy one.

• 13:21Doug DeMuro?

  You couldn't find one.

• 13:22Speaker 04

  High demand.

• 13:23Doug DeMuro?

  Anyway, Chinese cars banned from America, in theory, that's what the libs want. However, it would be really bad if it happened because the next news story is.

• 13:32Speaker 04

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• 14:55Doug DeMuro?

  That's some Chinese company, Great Wall, Filippo's hero company.

• 14:59Speaker 04

  Probably.

• 15:00Doug DeMuro?

  He's a socialist, he's a communist.

• 15:02Speaker 04

  They're not my favorite of the manufacturers.

• 15:04Doug DeMuro?

  He has a favorite Chinese car company.

• 15:06Speaker 04

  He doesn't.

• 15:07Doug DeMuro?

  My favorite is MG. Because it's just like, exactly, just like my grandpappy's. Anyway.

• 15:15Speaker 04

  All right. At the Beijing Auto Show, they revealed additional information about a platform that they actually talked about at CES. But they are thinking about launching Great Wall Motors, GWM, named after, indeed, the Great Wall. The GF sub-brand, which is Great Faith, but they have a...

• 15:34Doug DeMuro?

  The old GWM GF.

• 15:36Speaker 04

  They have teased that they...

• 15:38Doug DeMuro?

  The Trump people are concerned about Chinese cars being sold in the United States. I reviewed a car called the Fengchengbao. What was it called? The Fengchengbao. Leopard 5, but that was a loose translation.

• 15:52Speaker 04

  But don't forget about the BYD Seal and the Dolphin and other nice animals.

• 15:56Doug DeMuro?

  They had a car called the Dolphin.

• 15:58Speaker 04

  Regardless, they've announced that they're working on a V8, a 4-liter turbocharged mid-engine V8 and a carbon-fiber monocoque chassis.

• 16:07Doug DeMuro?

  To take on Ferrari.

• 16:08Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 16:08Doug DeMuro?

  Your company is gonna get taken down by GWM. Yeah, let me tell you something. I feel okay. We're gonna be fine. No, no. Ferrari's moved on to six-cylinder powertrains, plug-in hybrids. And the V12 SUV that they currently build. Oh, speaking of SUVs, Great Wall also said that this V8 is going to find its way into the tank, which is a giant bulky thing that they make. It's a big SUV. So Ferrari's over here... Mid-sized SUV. Ferrari's over here, yeah, but it looks bulky. It's like the G-Wagon. It looks bulky, but it isn't. Ferrari's over here with their six cylinders and they're losing Formula One, unlike Cadillac who wins, and... Not so.

• 16:46Speaker 04

  Close enough.

• 16:47Doug DeMuro?

  Great Wall is coming in with a V8. Now, why is a Chinese company developing a gasoline powertrain of any kind, let alone a V8?

• 16:53Speaker 04

  They've made clear that this is not aligned with current trends in China, but they want to compete internationally and they do think that, especially in the US and especially in the supercar segment, they need a V8.

• 17:05Doug DeMuro?

  I'm reading between the lines here and the belief that Great Wall thinks that... The barriers for the United States for Chinese cars to enter may fall.

• 17:14Speaker 04

  Yeah, I do imagine they also are thinking maybe about the Middle East where there is some appetite still for.

• 17:18Doug DeMuro?

  The Great Wall never fell.

• 17:20Speaker 04

  Yes, they certainly are thinking about that. A lot of the Chinese manufacturers, especially this week, the Beijing Auto Show is wrapping up. There've been a lot of kind of press cycles and interviews. A lot of them are saying, we do expect that we'll be trying to establish a dealer base or production in the US in the coming years. There's certainly an outlook towards that. Chinese manufacturers, the competition in China in the automotive space is quite tough. It's tough to.

• 17:45Doug DeMuro?

  The Chinese automakers want to sell cars, not just China.

• 17:47Speaker 04

  They need to to survive fundamentally.

• 17:49Doug DeMuro?

  There's like 100 Chinese brands.

• 17:51Speaker 04

  And profits are massively declining because of a huge price war that is happening, driving prices down. BYD is one of the largest, has had quite horrible earnings in Q1. They need to expand to Europe, they need to expand to the US, which is, if they're successful, likely be their second largest market after China. That expansion matters. And they think that if we bring, I think Great Wall Motors is thinking, if we bring engineering from, they have an engineer that was the chief engineer for McLaren for a while.

• 18:19Doug DeMuro?

  Right, known for their reliability.

• 18:20Speaker 04

  This is not a reliability play, this is a performance play. And they think that it can work. And so clearly they're taking steps towards that.

• 18:30Doug DeMuro?

  I think that it's interesting, I'm not sure about cool, but I think that it's interesting that they're taking steps towards that.

• 18:36Speaker 04

  I think cool.

• 18:37Doug DeMuro?

  Didn't you just say it's cool that they're taking steps towards that?

• 18:39Speaker 04

  Clear, I think.

• 18:40Doug DeMuro?

  Roll the tape back.

• 18:41Speaker 04

  Roll it back. I don't remember what I said. I just vamp, I don't know.

• 18:44Doug DeMuro?

  Regardless, definitely kind of an odd situation, especially considering the, at the simultaneous with this V8, you have Jamie Raskin trying to ban the thought of Chinese cars in America.

• 18:57Speaker 05

  So they're named after the Great Wall and we have a Great Wall of our own.

• 19:00Doug DeMuro?

  We got a Great Wall. Yeah, it's the border patrol at the thing looking at Vins, trying to figure out if your car was built in China. Oh, I'm sorry, your Model 3 was built in China, you can't come. Go back and find a Model 3 that was built in Texas, you come right over the border. Silly, dumb lawmaker BS. Repeated reminder that lawmakers have no idea what's going on. Speaking of people have no idea what's going on, and speaking of MG and Great Wall, our great Chinese.

• 19:26Speaker 05

  Where is this going?

• 19:27Doug DeMuro?

  The day I was driving in my Countach.

• 19:29Speaker 04

  Sure, yeah.

• 19:30Doug DeMuro?

  And.

• 19:31Speaker 04

  They barely knew what was going on, let's be honest.

• 19:33Doug DeMuro?

  I pull up next to it, a stoplight there, up the street, actually, just up the street, I pull up next to an MG. Like a real MG? It's interesting that you say that. I think they're all real MGs, which is why when the guy said to me, "Wow, I haven't seen one of those in a while," I said to him, "I haven't seen one of those since I drove the Cyberster." How did he react? Um, I didn't actually say that, but I should have.

• 19:57Speaker 05

  But mostly because A, it would be dumb, and B, you can't be heard over the car.

• 20:01Doug DeMuro?

  He's talking to me. I'm like, "Dude, don't."

• 20:05Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 20:05Doug DeMuro?

  All right, next one of these. Ah.

• 20:08Speaker 05

  Oh, wow.

• 20:08Doug DeMuro?

  All right, Shelby. So we've been talking, the Dark Horse and the Dark Horse SC for Supercharge.

• 20:13Speaker 05

  Very cool car.

• 20:14Doug DeMuro?

  Are out now, have been talked about, they've been revealed.

• 20:16Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 20:17Doug DeMuro?

  There's been an open question of why they got rid of the Shelby GT350 and Shelby GT500, no obsequious. We have learned this week that Shelby was apparently taking an $800 per vehicle cut of the Shelby branded models. And that was enough for Ford to decide, "We're done with that. We're keeping our $100." And Shelby name, the Shelby name is meaningless to us. They are.

• 20:39Speaker 04

  The Shelby name is worth less than $100.

• 20:41Speaker 05

  So now they're like.

• 20:42Doug DeMuro?

  Everybody's trying to cut costs in here or there. We got the tariffs to deal with.

• 20:47Speaker 05

  And so Ford decides to cut Heritage.

• 20:49Doug DeMuro?

  Tens of millions of dollars were paid out there for.

• 20:52Speaker 04

  How many could they have sold?

• 20:53Doug DeMuro?

  14,000 units of the GT500, that's 11 million. And apparently it's another 20-plus million for the GT350. 800 a car. It's real money. I mean.

• 21:04Speaker 04

  It's real money.

• 21:05Doug DeMuro?

  I would argue that it probably, we'll see what happens with the Dark Horse, which I think is lovely. It has not been a great seller. There appears to be one in the office.

• 21:14Speaker 04

  There's, it's not a Dark Horse. GT.

• 21:16Doug DeMuro?

  I don't know what that is, but I knew when I saw GT350, I knew what that was.

• 21:21Speaker 04

  Right. They had one of those in the office too.

• 21:23Doug DeMuro?

  Is it worth 800? Probably.

• 21:24Speaker 04

  That's the question.

• 21:26Speaker 05

  Yeah, I mean, the Shelby brand has been so, inextricably linked to the Mustang since its inception.

• 21:32Speaker 04

  And to Dodge.

• 21:34Speaker 05

  Well, he did work for Chrysler for a time, for last car Carol worked on was the Viper.

• 21:39Doug DeMuro?

  I agree with that. Like, there's all these Ford Shelby's and there's all these Chrysler Shelby's. What the hell's going on?

• 21:45Speaker 05

  The GLH, a great vehicle.

• 21:46Doug DeMuro?

  Very great vehicle.

• 21:48Speaker 05

  Goes like hell. Um, but I don't, I don't know. I'm in two minds about, cause the Dark Horse is really cool. But I agree, like when I see the Shelby badge as a, you know, as a Midwesterner. I know what that means.

• 21:58Doug DeMuro?

  Probably worth the 800 bucks.

• 21:59Speaker 05

  I think.

• 22:00Doug DeMuro?

  Shelby had such a, there was such a following there. Uh, I wonder if it also prevented them from using Cobra because they ditched Shelby, but, um, for some reason didn't bring back Cobra, which they haven't used in so far. You'd think that's where they would have gone if they wanted to get a Mustang performance train. But instead they came up with this new one, which is Dark Horse, which I think has been a little bit confusing to enthusiasts, to be honest. Is that the new Shelby? I don't know.

• 22:22Speaker 05

  Cobra must be Shelby. They must own it because they Shelby Cobra, like that was where that.

• 22:26Doug DeMuro?

  Maybe so. I mean, Mustang Cobra was also a thing for a long, long, long, long time. I've decades and decades.

• 22:32Speaker 05

  It might be related there. Who knows? I don't really know where the trademarks lie, but.

• 22:35Doug DeMuro?

  30 million dollars. Some, some big amount of money went to Shelby. Now I think Shelby deserves a big amount of money. They got a cool brand. For God's sake, didn't we all love the Chrysler Laser Shelby?

• 22:49Doug DeMuro?

  Oh, the Daytona. Remember the Daytona?

• 22:51Speaker 05

  Yeah, the one from.

• 22:52Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, front wheel drive hatchback Shelby. Do you remember this car? Oh, you do? You do not. You were living in Italy.

• 23:01Speaker 05

  Which, what year was that? Like 2000?

• 23:03Doug DeMuro?

  Dodge Daytona Shelby.

• 23:04Speaker 05

  Oh.

• 23:05Doug DeMuro?

  I'm not talking about the real Shelby Daytona.

• 23:07Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 23:08Doug DeMuro?

  No, of course I remember this.

• 23:09Speaker 05

  This?

• 23:10Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, of course. We, we hosted one. Let me tell you something. This car had at least 140 horsepower.

• 23:16Speaker 05

  Let's find out. Yeah, we'll see.

• 23:18Doug DeMuro?

  The Shelby Z.

• 23:20Speaker 05

  I don't think it even.

• 23:21Doug DeMuro?

  Sold by Auto Obscure Garage.

• 23:22Speaker 05

  174 horsepower.

• 23:24Doug DeMuro?

  200 pound feet though. This thing was a mover and a shaker. That's a good looking alligators. This car.

• 23:30Speaker 05

  It was fine looking.

• 23:31Doug DeMuro?

  If you're ready for it.

• 23:32Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah.

• 23:33Doug DeMuro?

  Oh, I want that in my life.

• 23:35Speaker 05

  It is so shiny.

• 23:36Doug DeMuro?

  Are you disappointed that you're not a part of this?

• 23:39Speaker 05

  Yes, I am. I've always wanted to review all these 80's Chryslers. None of them work right.

• 23:44Speaker 04

  Now that Ford is no longer paying them, they, they, maybe they'll come out with other partnerships.

• 23:48Doug DeMuro?

  Uh, maybe we can get the Dodge Dart back. All right. Give us our next news story, please.

• 23:53Speaker 04

  I'm good. All right.

• 23:54Doug DeMuro?

  Speaking of the Dodge Dart.

• 23:56Speaker 04

  Yeah. Uh, there is a report that's exclusive to Reuters this week that Stellantis is going to focus the majority of its investment in four brands. They have 14 brands, as we've talked about before. Those brands, dead. No, that's not actually true.

• 24:11Doug DeMuro?

  That's not what they said.

• 24:12Speaker 04

  Those brands will have some like platform sharing and like.

• 24:15Doug DeMuro?

  Well, that's not even really what they said.

• 24:18Speaker 04

  Some local.

• 24:19Doug DeMuro?

  You are, you are totally out of character, out of line with what actually was reported, which is that they're going to focus on a couple of brands. God, I just clicked on Stellantis and hit news to pull this story up. And the thing is coming up is Stellantis noise employees complain of nosebleeds, migraines, vomiting. Detroit news, Stellantis HQ ailment complaints. What we know. Stellantis HQ investigated by Michigan after employee illnesses. Stellantis workers raised health concerns at Auburn Hills HQ. Oh my God.

• 24:47Speaker 04

  All right. I will give the actual information.

• 24:48Doug DeMuro?

  The reliability is, is so bad, it's infecting the people.

• 24:52Speaker 04

  They, they are still going to make all the brands, to be clear, that they currently have, although they have made clear that they may dispose of some in the future. That may not be the word they use, but that's what they're saying.

• 25:01Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, I hope not. Well, I know they're going to dispose of some.

• 25:03Speaker 04

  But, but they, they will obviously still do some like badge engineering platform sharing with other brands and have some region specific products.

• 25:10Doug DeMuro?

  I want to make a point.

• 25:11Speaker 04

  Can you name the four brands, Kenan?

• 25:12Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, it's, it's Kenan, Kenan and I will.

• 25:15Speaker 04

  Please.

• 25:16Doug DeMuro?

  Jeep, Alfa Romeo.

• 25:17Speaker 04

  No. Oh, sorry. The four, four that survive.

• 25:20Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah. Jeep, Alfa. I guess Ram.

• 25:26Doug DeMuro?

  I don't remember the other two.

• 25:27Speaker 04

  That's really unfortunate.

• 25:28Doug DeMuro?

  What are they?

• 25:29Speaker 04

  There's four, you can only remember two.

• 25:30Doug DeMuro?

  Well, those are the only ones. Can I tell you why I don't think this, what are they?

• 25:33Speaker 04

  Uh, Jeep, Ram, Peugeot and Fiat.

• 25:36Doug DeMuro?

  The reason I don't think this is a big news story, they already are only focusing on the, the primary brands.

• 25:40Speaker 04

  What are you talking about?

• 25:41Doug DeMuro?

  Jeep has gotten the ma-

• 25:42Speaker 04

  Brands like Chrysler that has a minor facelift.

• 25:44Doug DeMuro?

  By the way, did you see that Chrysler is reportedly legitimately considering making an off-road Pacifica?

• 25:50Speaker 04

  I did, and I decided not to include it.

• 25:52Doug DeMuro?

  You know what makes me sad about that? I wouldn't buy it. Even though last week I said I want an off-road minivan, I don't want an off-road Pacifica. I want an off-road Sienna. I don't trust the Pacifica. Uh, listen, I think this is great and I'm thrilled that you're doing this Chrysler. I don't trust your vehicles to go off-road. Where I, I want a Sienna. Give me a lifted Sienna. Give me a lifted Odyssey.

• 26:12Speaker 04

  Toyota, you listening? Basically, what they've said is

• 26:17Doug DeMuro?

  Probably not.

• 26:17Speaker 04

  Is Jeep, Ram, Peugeot and Fiat are going to receive the largest investments in new platforms, new engine, new powertrains, whatever. And the other brands will also share those, will benefit from that technology development, but will have kind of smaller budgets.

• 26:30Doug DeMuro?

  It is interesting not to call out Dodge as a brand that they're focusing on.

• 26:33Speaker 04

  They sell one product.

• 26:35Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, but until yesterday, they sold one unbelievably popular product, which was the Challenger and Charger.

• 26:42Speaker 04

  Oh, sure. You're right. I'm sorry. They sell two products. I forgot about the Challenger entirely. Or the Charger, whatever it's called.

• 26:47Doug DeMuro?

  You get my point, though. Like, it's interesting that there's not a focus on trying to, like, those cars were some of the top sellers for years, and there's not a focus on trying to, like, make, because if you think about the other Peugeot, Fiat, and then the truck brands, there's not a Dodge Charger in there.

• 27:02Speaker 04

  I also don't really get, like, Ram will certainly be truck chassis development, et cetera. Jeep will develop all the SUVs, and I imagine there'll be a Durango that is shared with that, whatever. Fiat and Peugeot, I don't understand what they're going with for differentiation. I imagine Peugeot will be slightly,

• 27:21Speaker 04

  Fiat will probably be their low-cost brand because their largest markets are South American markets.

• 27:25Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 27:25Speaker 04

  And Peugeot will be the European brand.

• 27:26Doug DeMuro?

  You need Peugeot for Europe, for France specifically. You need Fiat. You can't get rid of Peugeot either because the French government will lose their mind.

• 27:32Speaker 04

  I'm just surprised that they're investing in both. I imagine Fiat will have to be their, like, cheap tertiary market development for cheaper cars.

• 27:39Doug DeMuro?

  And Jeep, honestly. Fiat is the car version and Jeep is the SUV version. You know, Jeep overseas has become very different from Jeep in the States. The cars are not even related.

• 27:47Speaker 04

  For example, not the Dodge Avenger, the Jeep Avenger.

• 27:50Doug DeMuro?

  You go to Italy and there's Jeeps, and I'm looking at them, I'm like,

• 27:53Speaker 04

  It's an Italian brand.

• 27:54Doug DeMuro?

  Where have, yeah, it is. It is now. And it's like, what is this thing? It makes sense. I think it makes sense, the four brands they're choosing to focus on. I am interested to see what will happen to the other brands, but unlike you who thinks they're going to go away, I think they're still going to get cars. They will just not be the recipient of the primary focus. Jeep obviously has to be the big one because it's the only one that has real clout.

• 28:15Speaker 04

  No performance component is somewhat interesting, though. Right? There's no Maserati Alpha in that. They'll make cars.

• 28:21Doug DeMuro?

  That's what I'm saying. Like, with no Dodge, you're not focusing on Charger-Challenger. I don't think Peugeot, Fiat creates a car that the Charger-Challenger could be. So then you're thinking, wait a minute, what, isn't that still a priority? We want our V8s.

• 28:33Speaker 04

  Yes, always. The V8s are for the Rams. It's electric. That's...

• 28:37Doug DeMuro?

  We want our V8s.

• 28:38Speaker 04

  There's no Charger sold with a V8 currently.

• 28:40Doug DeMuro?

  It's gonna be like tomorrow.

• 28:41Speaker 04

  I will say Jeep, of the Solentis brands in the US, Jeep has a 47% market share. Ram has 34%.

• 28:49Doug DeMuro?

  47% market share?

• 28:50Speaker 04

  Of the Solentis brands in the US.

• 28:54Doug DeMuro?

  And Ram has what?

• 28:55Speaker 04

  37, 34%.

• 28:56Doug DeMuro?

  You know, if you had looked at that five years ago, when Dodge was still selling the Charger and the Challenger, those numbers wouldn't be the case.

• 29:00Speaker 04

  Right, or 15 years ago, when it was all branded Dodge, it would be different.

• 29:04Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, definitely that too. All right, what's our next news story? Oh yeah, speaking of Chrysler.

• 29:09Speaker 04

  I can't believe we're gonna talk about this.

• 29:11Doug DeMuro?

  This is just such a great story.

• 29:12Speaker 04

  We're gonna tell the story, move on. All right, this is a Ram ProMaster. It is advertised as having a nine-speed transmission, and indeed, the transmission has nine speeds.

• 29:23Doug DeMuro?

  Does nine gears?

• 29:24Speaker 04

  There are nine gears, but there's a lawsuit, a class action lawsuit right now, that it is intentionally programmed to never go into gears eight or nine.

• 29:32Doug DeMuro?

  This is what the lawsuit alleges.

• 29:33Speaker 04

  Alleges, yes.

• 29:34Doug DeMuro?

  That the transmission is, for various reasons, Solentis, even though it's a nine-speed automatic, has programmed it so it will never reach eighth gear and ninth gear. Now, I know what you're thinking.

• 29:46Speaker 04

  Oh no.

• 29:49Doug DeMuro?

  What will I do without my gears?

• 29:51Speaker 04

  When you rebuild the transmission, you'll have two, you don't need to...

• 29:54Speaker 05

  They said, "Was that gear made in China? Hi, you can't come in here, can't use this one."

• 29:57Speaker 04

  It is just such a great story.

• 29:59Doug DeMuro?

  Also, what are the damages?

• 30:01Speaker 05

  Right, that is a great question.

• 30:02Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 30:03Doug DeMuro?

  What are the... Is there fuel economy?

• 30:05Speaker 05

  Right, that's the only thing I can think of.

• 30:07Doug DeMuro?

  But that's EPA.

• 30:08Speaker 04

  It's EPA, so it wouldn't have gone up to eighth or ninth for testing either, yeah.

• 30:11Doug DeMuro?

  All right, move on to our next story, please. Oh yeah, Me and Mothers, folks. This is a massive deal, this is the biggest news story of the week. We are partnering with Mothers.

• 30:21Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 30:22Doug DeMuro?

  Mothers makes the finest detailing products in the world, on the planet, and we are now partnering with Mothers. We've got Mothers stuff over there in the thing, in the podcast set. We are going to have Mothers products integrated. There's gonna be all sorts of cool Mothers things that come out of this.

• 30:40Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 30:40Doug DeMuro?

  I wanna tell you a story. I went up to their headquarters.

• 30:45Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 30:45Doug DeMuro?

  Which are somewhere north of here.

• 30:47Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 30:48Doug DeMuro?

  Maybe it's Orange County, maybe it's Los Angeles. We don't remember.

• 30:51Speaker 04

  Nobody knows.

• 30:52Doug DeMuro?

  And they were great. We met all the Mothers people. It was a lovely experience. I met Mother.

• 30:58Speaker 04

  Wait, there's a mother?

• 31:00Doug DeMuro?

  I met Mother. She is real. She is a woman. She is Mother.

• 31:06Speaker 05

  You know, I never really thought about the name, but it's actually because there's a mother.

• 31:10Doug DeMuro?

  There is a mother. Mothers, to this day, despite being this big detailing powerhouse, is a family-owned company and Mother is at the top.

• 31:20Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 31:20Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 31:21Speaker 04

  And then her sons, like, help?

• 31:22Doug DeMuro?

  She has two sons who run the business. And then there's obviously like employees and like an office and all that. They were, they were, they were real car enthusiasts. It was super fun going up there and meeting them. We got to see all their cool cars. At one point, I tried to make my own detail spray. Let me tell you something. There's a fellow there at the Mothers and he sits in the lab all day long. He's got a, he's got a 100 series thing.

• 31:44Speaker 04

  Oh, clean, I assume.

• 31:47Doug DeMuro?

  He sits in the lab. Well, I'll tell you a story about that. He sits in the lab all day long and he makes the, the things.

• 31:53Speaker 04

  The concoctions.

• 31:54Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, he's like a wizard, kinda. And, um,

• 31:57Speaker 04

  He's wearing a lap?

• 31:57Doug DeMuro?

  Okay. He said that if anybody who enters the parking lot and parks their car, it's considered to be fair game that you might have a product test.

• 32:06Doug DeMuro?

  He said to the point where when like plumbers come by, they're like, cause those are like the dirtiest car. They're like going out to the plumbers trucks without necessarily even asking and just kinda spraying and wiping.

• 32:18Doug DeMuro?

  That's like, Mother. Anyway, we have a person, there's gonna be a lot of cool stuff that comes out of this. A lot of cool stuff. You're gonna love it. You, the audience member, are going to love it.

• 32:27Speaker 04

  Can I share something we're doing to celebrate?

• 32:29Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, what are we doing?

• 32:30Speaker 04

  We are giving away five massive prize packs. There's a link in the description below. Each winner is gonna get a co-branded bags of cars and beds and Mothers.

• 32:38Doug DeMuro?

  I have one of these bags. Have you seen it?

• 32:40Speaker 04

  No, cause you took it.

• 32:41Doug DeMuro?

  You ain't getting it.

• 32:42Speaker 04

  Damn. What, what, what if I?

• 32:43Doug DeMuro?

  Unless you win the giveaway, yes.

• 32:45Speaker 05

  Which, you know what? Your cars are always so filthy. You really need to enter that.

• 32:48Speaker 04

  I, I have a story.

• 32:49Speaker 05

  Or go park in the parking lot.

• 32:50Doug DeMuro?

  He needs more than just.

• 32:52Speaker 05

  I know. He needs me.

• 32:53Speaker 04

  I cleaned my car this weekend, uh, cause I was gonna drive it and I cleaned it and we have all the Mothers products. And then it rained and now there's water spots.

• 33:00Speaker 05

  Now you understand.

• 33:00Speaker 04

  And I understand you're paid. I obviously will clean it again in weeks and it'll be fine.

• 33:04Doug DeMuro?

  Good news. We got Mothers products over there.

• 33:07Speaker 04

  Behind Ryan Lopez. The detailer bag, which is co-branded and really cool, is loaded with the gold ceramic line, a bunch of towels, a hundred dollar gift card to the Cars and Bits merch store. Everything you need to get your car auction ready.

• 33:20Doug DeMuro?

  So there's five of these and you can, how can you win?

• 33:22Speaker 04

  You go to the link in the description, mothers.com, page is giveaway to enter. The link will be live when this podcast goes live.

• 33:29Doug DeMuro?

  This is a big deal. Mothers and Cars and Bits begins and my formulas will be concocted. Oh, oh, oh, oh. Okay.

• 33:39Speaker 04

  Can you name any single tool on display in this photo?

• 33:44Doug DeMuro?

  Tool? What do you mean by tool?

• 33:45Speaker 04

  It's machinery. It's equipment.

• 33:48Doug DeMuro?

  Oh, you mean like the lab stuff? What do you mean? The microscopes? The boroscopes? The stethoscopes? The seismometers?

• 33:59Doug DeMuro?

  Let's move on to the top cars segment. The toilet car segment this week is brought to you by Filippo's Water Spots. I want to talk about.

• 34:07Speaker 04

  I'm a little annoyed by them.

• 34:08Doug DeMuro?

  I want to talk about a few things. There's actually three really important things I want to talk about.

• 34:13Speaker 04

  Oh, okay.

• 34:14Doug DeMuro?

  Actually, for me only two, but maybe we can get Ryan Lopez involved in something else. I want to talk about this. I have decided.

• 34:23Doug DeMuro?

  I'm announcing on the pod today.

• 34:24Speaker 04

  Wow, this is official.

• 34:26Doug DeMuro?

  I've decided that I've peaked with two-seater cars.

• 34:32Doug DeMuro?

  The three that I have, I can't do any better and I'm not gonna. I'm gonna keep them for the foreseeable future and that's it.

• 34:43Speaker 04

  A forty.

• 34:43Doug DeMuro?

  I can't afford anything that I like more and I don't want anything else. I've thought about all of the options. You don't know how many times I've Googled exotic car and then strolled, hoping that there was something I forgot.

• 35:01Doug DeMuro?

  So, I've moved on to four-seaters. Yeah. I've got the three two-seaters, game over, four-seaters. So, I made a little list of, and now that I have the kids, they like participating in the cars anyway. I'm gonna start accumulating four-seater cars, like I accumulated two-seater cars. My initial plan was that one car in my garage would have four seats, and that would be my family car. That is no longer my plan. I'm just gonna start kind of adding them as I see fit. Oh, they're gonna, they're gonna, because you already actually have two four-seater. Well, we don't count the G-Wagon because it's an insipid driving experience. So you're gonna just keep adding, you're, you're, the street in front of your house is gonna just be. No, they're all gonna be parked in the office, so. Sure. Why not? It's not foolish or anything.

• 35:46Doug DeMuro?

  Here's what I'm looking for, and I am dead serious that I am like, ready to start buying these cars whenever they start appearing, okay? Great. Dead serious. These are the cars on my list. First off, that E55 AMG wagon from 2001, the S210 with the third row, me and Rami are still looking for one. We're gonna find that car. That's not even really part of this, that's its whole separate thing. The four-seaters I'm looking for that will live in the 993's world. My plan was originally, I have the 993 for a year to sell it, get other cars, to have kind of a lineage of four-seater cars. Now I'm just gonna go willy-nilly. I appreciate this approach. Mark IV Supra Turbo, it's time. I want a stock Mark IV Super Turbo, Renaissance red, post-facelift ideally.

• 36:30Doug DeMuro?

  Bring it to me. I want an E30 M3 Sport Evo. I think, I have a neighbor with one, I'm gonna test drive it on Friday. Can you describe for me the difference between the E30 M3, the E30 M3 Sport and the Sport Evo? I don't know the E30 M3 lineup. Filippo, very simple. Yeah. The Sport Evo is the one that the rich.

• 36:56Doug DeMuro?

  Fair enough. No, it was a little, it was a little more dialed in. It was a little more focused. Actually, it was a little more power too. And one of the problems with that car was that it was...

• 37:02Speaker 05

  The S14 is a little anemic, but they, they, they added lots of stuff to it. Like even the Aero is obviously one of the bigger things they messed with. They even put like rubber, like, like filler in like hood gaps to make sure that it was perfectly smooth for Aero, which is crazy. But it's like a, it is a special car. They cost an absolute fortune, but you know, he's gonna find out if it's worth it.

• 37:26Doug DeMuro?

  Mark four, I don't even care. I just wanna start getting these four seaters and having the experience. Cause I truly think I've maxed out my two seater experience. And so like, let's just, let's go a different direction.

• 37:37Speaker 05

  You know, this, yeah. Well, this, this happens. We've seen this happen lots.

• 37:41Doug DeMuro?

  I'm not getting rid of the two seaters. I just truly think that I can't do any better. And I'm certainly not trying to earn more money to get to a point where I can get a better car.

• 37:50Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah.

• 37:50Doug DeMuro?

  So Ferrari 612, I'm ready. I want a 612. Sticksaw or? Yeah. But I'll do it if I have to. I'd rather have a late OTO. You know the OTO. Yeah, of course.

• 37:59Speaker 05

  One to one. Flippo doesn't know what the...

• 38:02Doug DeMuro?

  No, I knew that.

• 38:02Speaker 05

  It's okay. Go back to sleep. Next car. Delta Integrale Evo 2? Hell yeah.

• 38:08Doug DeMuro?

  Evo, Mitsubishi Lancer Evo 6, left-hand drive only. Wow. And this one will surprise the audience the most, cause all these are manuals. This one's a tip. The Jaguar XE Project 8. Nice. I want something that Harry Metcalfe has breathed on. He is my idol.

• 38:26Speaker 00

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• 38:57Speaker 05

  I was gonna say, you recently watched a Harry's Garage video on this vehicle.

• 39:00Doug DeMuro?

  Well, that's not why I put it on the list. I put it on the list and then I watched the video, which made me even more happy that I put it on the list. Harry Metcalf,

• 39:08Speaker 05

  Our Lord and Savior.

• 39:09Doug DeMuro?

  A living legend.

• 39:10Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 39:12Doug DeMuro?

  I don't know if he was actually responsible for anything to do with this car, but he's got one. He's got a purple one.

• 39:15Speaker 05

  He was. I don't, I, it's nebulous because it's the Project 8 and the Project, yeah, whatever, anyway.

• 39:21Doug DeMuro?

  His car is cat delete.

• 39:24Speaker 05

  Which does not mean what you think it means. It's not, doesn't mean catalytic converter. For these cars, there's a giant graphic that you could get. The Jaguar side profile, the actual cat on the side of the door, and it runs the length of the car. It's like the most aggressive.

• 39:40Doug DeMuro?

  Harry's Garage is the best joke you've ever made. But I only want the car with cats, and it's plural, by the way, because it's on both sides. There is a giant cat graphic on the side of this car that literally goes from the very rear to the front door. Yeah, pull one up. XC Project 8. They were gonna make 300, although Harry says they actually made less.

• 40:04Doug DeMuro?

  And look at this cat. If I want this cat car and I want it now and I want it with cats, and um.

• 40:12Speaker 05

  Gotta have cats.

• 40:13Doug DeMuro?

  I want to tell you something. This car has 600 horsepower and it's, it's.

• 40:20Speaker 04

  I also like the XC generally.

• 40:22Doug DeMuro?

  Okay, that's a weird take that isn't supported by anybody else.

• 40:26Speaker 04

  It's a good-looking small sedan.

• 40:27Doug DeMuro?

  Okay. You can get a used one for like four. I was looking there too. AutoTrader, let me tell you what's on AutoTrader right now for XEs. There's like 100 of them, right?

• 40:35Speaker 04

  More than that, I'm sure.

• 40:37Doug DeMuro?

  99 of the 100 are four cylinders for six grand.

• 40:42Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 40:42Doug DeMuro?

  And then there's one Project 8.

• 40:45Speaker 04

  I, I do want to throw that.

• 40:46Doug DeMuro?

  Look at this cat!

• 40:47Speaker 04

  Look at that cat. We have here at the Cars and Bits office, two of the things on that list already.

• 40:53Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 40:54Speaker 05

  Has that influenced your decision in any way?

• 40:56Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, I drove the 612 and the Super. I loved them both. They were already on my list, but I've driven them and I'm like, yep, they should be on my list.

• 41:03Speaker 04

  So I'm gonna consider.

• 41:06Doug DeMuro?

  So my point is.

• 41:07Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 41:08Doug DeMuro?

  I'm just gonna start buying.

• 41:09Speaker 04

  I love this.

• 41:09Doug DeMuro?

  I'm not gonna wait till one's gone and do a whole, oh, this one's out, this one's in. We're just gonna start accumulating four cylinder, four seater cars. We have peaked with two seaters. It is time to move on to the next realm of car.

• 41:21Speaker 04

  When one comes up.

• 41:23Doug DeMuro?

  I'm ready to buy a Supra literally right now.

• 41:26Speaker 05

  So when you say four seats, it doesn't mean just two door, four seaters. You mean four door, four seaters.

• 41:31Doug DeMuro?

  I guess. Apparently initially this started because I wanted only two door, four seaters because of the kids. But then I was poking around in the Supra over there.

• 41:40Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 41:41Doug DeMuro?

  I'm already like dangerously close to outgrow. I need to get a Supra like yesterday. We're like, it's tight back there. And so then it hit me like, maybe I should add some four seaters. And that's how we got the Delta Integra, the Lenz. These are cars I've always wanted minus the project date, which I didn't want until yesterday. Although Harry in his video on the Autobahn hits 200 miles an hour.

• 41:59Speaker 05

  Yep. Yeah, Harry's real. Let's.

• 42:02Doug DeMuro?

  This car does 200. How many sedans ever built have done 200 miles an hour? Seriously?

• 42:08Speaker 05

  Uh, yeah, not many. E60 M5's done it.

• 42:11Doug DeMuro?

  The E60 M5, yeah.

• 42:12Speaker 05

  Uh, what else?

• 42:13Doug DeMuro?

  A lot of these BS cars are limited and stuff.

• 42:15Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 42:16Doug DeMuro?

  This thing do 200. You've never even been in a car that does 200.

• 42:20Speaker 04

  I have, but admittedly I've never been 200 miles an hour.

• 42:23Speaker 05

  The point, yeah, it's, it's more like a theme for you. It's like an overarching thing.

• 42:26Speaker 04

  I've been in the room.

• 42:27Speaker 05

  You've been in the room?

• 42:28Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 42:29Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 42:30Doug DeMuro?

  Anyway, we're going on four seater cars. Are you ready for this? Cause there might be six, eight more cars in this.

• 42:35Speaker 04

  I'll be honest, you've owned that nine 11 for what? Six months?

• 42:38Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 42:38Speaker 04

  Never been in it while moving. I don't think I've sat in it.

• 42:42Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, but it's.

• 42:43Speaker 04

  It doesn't impact my life.

• 42:44Doug DeMuro?

  It's around.

• 42:44Speaker 04

  And I appreciate that.

• 42:46Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, aren't you gonna appreciate if a Supra's around?

• 42:48Speaker 04

  No, I'm just ready for the text when you inevitably actually don't want these cars.

• 42:52Doug DeMuro?

  What do you mean? I love the 993, it's been great.

• 42:56Speaker 05

  We will get that text. Ah, I'm over cars. It'll happen.

• 43:00Doug DeMuro?

  You won't get it if I get a super turbo because I tell you, I drove that white one. What I'm most worried you'll forget it for. There is nothing greater than driving a Mark IV super turbo. Really? One of the great experiences. You want to know why? Yeah. Because you know that nothing you do can possibly break the powertrain. Except that... You can money shift it like Nick of the TTRS on an on-ramp and it will still continue to ride.

• 43:21Speaker 05

  Unless you're Rob Freddie and you break it constantly. You remember his, he was always, the super turbo was always broken.

• 43:26Doug DeMuro?

  He probably had 1,400 horsepower.

• 43:28Speaker 05

  Yeah, he did.

• 43:29Doug DeMuro?

  I'm gonna go with 320.

• 43:32Speaker 05

  Right there at 320.

• 43:34Doug DeMuro?

  Felipe was shocked to learn that it had more than 276 horsepower. In my head, they all have 276. But what you need to understand is all those cars that were rated at 276 in Japan, when they were sold outside Japan, they gave them the correct horsepower ratings. The Super actually had a few differences between the Japan one and the US one. Like the 3000 GT, they just openly gave the correct horsepower number in the US and lied in Japan.

• 43:56Speaker 05

  The gentleman's agreement.

• 43:57Doug DeMuro?

  The other thing I want to talk about is, yeah, over the years, the Super got like different things with the engine to make it faster and it boosts up the torque number. Horsepower stayed at 276. What a coincidence.

• 44:08Speaker 05

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• 44:50Speaker 05

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• 45:35Speaker 05

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• 45:53Doug DeMuro?

  Um, we went to the concours. We went to the La Jolla Concours de la Gonne.

• 45:57Speaker 05

  Yes, we did. A sacred event to us.

• 45:59Doug DeMuro?

  Kenan participated. Kenan cleaned the F out of the Carrera GT. Did you see it?

• 46:04Speaker 04

  I did. It looked great. And then I, I saw it here in the office looking great. And then some things happened and then I saw it looking great again.

• 46:10Speaker 05

  Well, yes, I, I posted a story on my Instagram. So Saturday night, the night prior, the concours are all held on Sundays. Uh, and the night prior, it rained like crazy. The weather was very, I mean, it was unbelievable. The amount of water in La Jolla was just like, really insane. So I naturally, who had spent six hours on Friday dialing in the Carrera GT, was very nervous about this.

• 46:31Doug DeMuro?

  The Carrera GT was in the garage during all that, but the next morning, Sunday morning.

• 46:35Speaker 05

  We went and it was raining.

• 46:36Doug DeMuro?

  We woke up and it was pouring when we were leaving to go to the concourse.

• 46:39Speaker 05

  I was apoplectic, but we, but we, we, I got all of my detailing stuff together. I'm like, well, so be it.

• 46:47Doug DeMuro?

  All of his mother's detailing products.

• 46:50Speaker 05

  Uh, yeah. Uh, so we put all that, like all the stuff, we got it in the car. We got the car. Being in a Carrera GT while it's raining is scary. He was very careful with it. Doug understands that car's reputation, but we got there. It wasn't that bad, actually. I cleaned the car up initially, then it started to rain some more. Then I cleaned a little bit more, then it rained again. And so what I said was, in essence, I cleaned the car two and a half, three and a half times maybe. But then it did stop raining. The sun came out and all was beautiful.

• 47:17Doug DeMuro?

  And you know what? The Carrera GT was a big hit.

• 47:19Speaker 05

  It was.

• 47:20Doug DeMuro?

  Cause it, I realized something. All those people who have air cooleds, who go to concours events, the Carrera GT is like their god. They're like, oh. I got a What if I have the 959? I got a long hood and this is what I oh wow. You know, those people don't care about the 918, it's a hyper trap.

• 47:37Speaker 05

  Yeah, so we were in the hypercar class is what the Carrera GT was.

• 47:40Doug DeMuro?

  And I didn't submit it for judging, which I now think was a mistake because looking at the rest of that class, it was like, why Rosanda?

• 47:49Speaker 05

  Yeah, right.

• 47:50Doug DeMuro?

  Like Carrera GT was like the, the concours car of that class, you know, manual, brown interior.

• 47:56Speaker 05

  Yes, it was. It was parked, it was crazy that it parked, we were between a Bugatti Veyron supersport and a Gumpert Apollo. It was, it was a wild lineup of cars.

• 48:05Doug DeMuro?

  Like I said, park it here next to the Bugatti.

• 48:07Speaker 05

  Yes, which we were very happy about. But nonetheless, it was a wonderful event. We had a great time.

• 48:11Doug DeMuro?

  We had a great time.

• 48:12Speaker 05

  As we always do.

• 48:13Doug DeMuro?

  Filippo even came temporarily. Was there for some amount of time? Yeah.

• 48:18Speaker 05

  Yeah, wearing a suit jacket and Doug was dressed nicely, not wearing a t-shirt.

• 48:21Doug DeMuro?

  I know. It was surprising.

• 48:23Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 48:23Doug DeMuro?

  It made me put on a suit.

• 48:25Speaker 05

  I, I did.

• 48:25Doug DeMuro?

  I wasn't going to and then I saw a picture of Doug wearing a dress shirt and so I put on a suit. What were you gonna wear? Hawaiian? Yeah. Um, anyway, that was the thing. Four-seater fun cars and concours. Those are my talking points today.

• 48:39Speaker 05

  You know, you could get a vintage Ferrari for two plus two and then take that to a concours.

• 48:42Doug DeMuro?

  Should I put one of those masks? I, I, I literally did a dive into every four-seat vintage Ferrari and I came to the conclusion they're all ugly. And it includes the 612 by the way, but at least it drives well. I drove that 612. What an unbelievably athletic, um, car. It is just so sporty. Acceleration and steering and handling. It is incredibly athletic despite the fact that it's as long as a Toyota Highlander, which is not an exaggeration. It is so athletic. It looks longer. So good. And the 612 has benefits from this wonderful powertrain, which was the wrong engine. I remember everybody said that at the time. It's the old engine and the new engine is out with the 599.

• 49:19Speaker 05

  Right.

• 49:19Doug DeMuro?

  Well, from a reliability standpoint, as age has come, the 612 actually is like the car.

• 49:25Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 49:25Doug DeMuro?

  That is like the most reliable Ferrari from that era.

• 49:28Speaker 05

  Yeah, it is. The 575 drivetrain, which it has is very stout. You still have to do a belt service on it, which you don't with the 599's engine, but, um, yeah, and the fact you can do the conversions, because again, the 575 came with a six-speed, as did the 612. Um, it's a really appealing car that's gotten a lot of flack for the way it looks, but I think in a dark color with the challenge wheels.

• 49:47Doug DeMuro?

  Yep. Which is all the OTOs.

• 49:49Speaker 05

  All the OTOs, yep. Ferrari knew what they were doing at the end.

• 49:51Doug DeMuro?

  At any minute, one of these cars could be in our life.

• 49:56Speaker 05

  That'd be cool. I'm there for all of it. I really actually, believe it or not, despite what I've said in the past, I would like for you to get the E30 M3 because I'm alone as a BMW guy in our friend group. And it would be nice to have another M owner in the

• 50:08Doug DeMuro?

  I've only ever had one BMW.

• 50:10Speaker 05

  Yep, an E36 M3 sedan, white with a 5-speed.

• 50:13Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, years ago.

• 50:14Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 50:15Doug DeMuro?

  One BMW.

• 50:16Speaker 05

  Yep. It was faster than the one you're gonna buy.

• 50:21Doug DeMuro?

  I've always been an E30 M3 fan. I've driven a bunch of them. I love them. I love how they look and I love how they drive. I know they're slow. But they are just some of the most communicative, kind of bare-bones, sporty, like, it is just a wonderful experience. And I think that the next generation of car in general, lost a lot of what made the E30 M3 so special. I think the E36 grew a bit too much, became a bit too plastic, lost a little bit of just the overall, simple, basic focus. And that was true for basically every brand in the 90s. This E30 M3, just there was, in the E30 in general, just had this wonderful,

• 51:01Doug DeMuro?

  like, basicness about it. That was just so perfect, the way that car drove.

• 51:06Speaker 05

  Yeah, I don't totally agree. I think the E36 M3's interior is definitely not the nicest place to be.

• 51:10Doug DeMuro?

  The E30 M3 interior is nicer than the E36 M3, for sure.

• 51:13Speaker 05

  Yeah, but it's still not that nice. It's fine, but I wouldn't call it nice. But the E30, I don't know, I like the E36 BMW, I like 600 power.

• 51:22Doug DeMuro?

  The 90s cars, I really think, looking back on it, I prefer the E28 M5 to the E34 M5, and I prefer the E30 M3 to the 36 M3. The next generation, the 90s plastic cars, I don't think they drove as well. I don't think they were as athletic. And I think BMW didn't regain that again until the next generation of cars, which of course is your M5 and the 46.

• 51:43Speaker 05

  The best era, BMW. Yeah, the golden era.

• 51:45Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah. I love the 36 M3, to be clear. I think it's a great car. But we're comparing it against E30 M3, which is really one of the more, like, just basic, stripped-down.

• 51:55Speaker 05

  It's just like when everybody asks us to rank stuff. It's like, they're all good. They're all really good.

• 51:59Doug DeMuro?

  I hope you're ready for it.

• 52:01Speaker 05

  Ready. Well, if it's for Felipe, I can take it now.

• 52:03Doug DeMuro?

  We've already done Priuses. What else could it be? Uh, okay. Uh, bring on the, uh, American car situation.

• 52:10Speaker 05

  Uh, yes. So I recently went up and reviewed a couple of cars that are coming to Cars and Bids very soon. Uh, one was a 1969 Mustang Mach 1.

• 52:17Doug DeMuro?

  Ooh.

• 52:18Speaker 05

  Red.

• 52:18Doug DeMuro?

  Ooh.

• 52:19Speaker 05

  Uh, with a fireman license plate that is, it was a deep stiff salute to America. It was very cool. It's a for, for those of you into those cars, it was a 428 Cobra Jet car with the intake on the hood. So it had the shaker hood and all that. It's in a four speed. It's like the one you want.

• 52:32Doug DeMuro?

  Manly was that car than Filippo? If you had to rank them?

• 52:35Speaker 05

  That my car? Not even the same.

• 52:36Doug DeMuro?

  No, no, no, no, no. You.

• 52:37Speaker 05

  Not even the same species, no offense. Uh, that car like was hairy chested scary. Uh, it's like the steering is like, you know, kind of not, not particularly great. I'd give myself a scary too. Easiest car I've ever done a burnout in. It was like, I just breathe on the throttle and it's like everything you aren't. It really, like, it really is like antithetical to you as like your spirit. Yeah. It's not the same. But, um, it was so cool looking, sounded, no, it is not efficient. Cause it's a seven liter V8 in essence, the 428. Um, but I, I loved the way it looked. I thought it was really cool, but of course like not particularly precise to drive. You know, the car, it's, you know, everybody talks about American cars. So I can't believe that these giant engines and they're all full. It's like, well, you drive a modern one. They're all pretty good.

• 53:21Speaker 05

  You drive one from the late sixties and you're reminded how all over the place that car was.

• 53:26Doug DeMuro?

  You can, if you go back with American cars at all, you got to get where they got the reputation. Like if you're to drive an American car today, you don't understand why people say American cars don't handle as well as European cars. You drive a new Mustang, GT350.

• 53:38Speaker 05

  They're great. They're awesome.

• 53:40Doug DeMuro?

  And you're like, this is pretty good, but the, you start going back even a little bit. And then if you go back a lot bit.

• 53:45Speaker 05

  You go back to the beginning where.

• 53:46Doug DeMuro?

  Oh.

• 53:47Speaker 05

  Right. And they sold a gazillion of them at the time. I'm like, oh my God, people bought this.

• 53:51Doug DeMuro?

  But only to Americans.

• 53:52Speaker 05

  But only to Americans and it, and it is cool as hell. No question. Like to look at and to listen to, it is really.

• 54:00Doug DeMuro?

  It's coming up on the site?

• 54:01Speaker 05

  It's coming up on the site too. That's also going to be at the Velocity Invitational, that one with a bunch of other cars that we've selected will be there on May 29th through the 31st. Really exciting. It's at our first in-person auction event. You still bid like you would normally on the Cars and Bids app through the platform, but the car is going to close there on the 30th and it's, it's really cool. It's going to go live on the 12th. You can take a look at it.

• 54:18Doug DeMuro?

  Velocity, this is going to be great. So. Whether you're gonna be able to bid, but then is there gonna be like a bid caller in person? Or are they just gonna end? Is there gonna be a screen? Is there gonna be a screen?

• 54:29Speaker 04

  We will have some-

• 54:29Doug DeMuro?

  He's gonna have a screen!

• 54:31Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 54:31Doug DeMuro?

  Like it's like an iPad?

• 54:32Speaker 04

  If you're there in person, we can help you, help you to get set up to bid. If you're not already, you can also bid obviously from the app while there or anywhere in the world. If you want to be there at the event, check the link in bio or check the description below for a coupon code to the-

• 54:46Doug DeMuro?

  This is so exciting. How many cars are gonna end right there on the premises?

• 54:49Speaker 04

  We will have something like, we're targeting 15. We may exceed that by a little bit.

• 54:53Doug DeMuro?

  This is in Sonoma?

• 54:54Speaker 04

  It's Sonoma Raceway.

• 54:55Doug DeMuro?

  Kenan, the cars are gonna end right then and there.

• 54:58Speaker 05

  It's very exciting. This is a very exciting event. The car is really cool. And it is a nice one, so definitely go check it out. But I also drove another car, another American car, just yesterday, the other day, that's gonna be-

• 55:08Doug DeMuro?

  You did all this this week?

• 55:09Speaker 05

  I did, yeah. On Monday, I flew up into that and flew back. Tuesday, I then did another car. I drove, so I drove a Daytona Coupe replica. Now, when I say replica-

• 55:18Doug DeMuro?

  Shelby Daytona Coupe?

• 55:18Speaker 05

  Shelby Daytona Coupe replica.

• 55:19Speaker 04

  Not the one-

• 55:20Doug DeMuro?

  Not the 80's one?

• 55:21Speaker 05

  No, this is the one, everybody's seen Ford versus Ferrari. Everybody likes to focus on the Ford GT. This was the first American car to go out and actually kick ass at Le Mans. And it won the 1965 Constructors Championship. Like, huge deal. This like, this upset the tables with Ferrari. But this replica, when I say replica, it is, it is the, there's a spectrum to that word, right? And I say this at the beginning of the video, when you say replica, a lot of people picture these badly cobbled together Fieros that look like vaguely like Ferraris from a distance. If you've had a couple to drink. This car is on the other end of that spectrum where it is built beautifully. It has billet lower, billet control arms, a hand welded tubular chassis, a built 331 V8 with electronic ITBs. I mean, it is a serious car.

• 56:06Speaker 05

  And I got one, looking at it and talking about it, I tell the story of the Daytona Coupe, the original, and why they're so iconic. Cause it's a great story of like American engineering coming, and I love that story. But also then I talk about this car and then I get to drive it at the end. And initially, I was a little scared of this, cause it is a race car. It is stripped out. Getting in is really hard. You gotta climb over a roll cage. The seats are very narrow. You're in, it's really tight. I get in the car, instantly comfortable with it. Could not get over how well dialed in it was and that thing was so damn loud. And it, I was like, you watched in the video, I am like so happy and so just like, at one point, it's rare that I do this because I talk a lot. I stopped talking and just like, went for it and just so you could hear the engine and get the experience. And at one point,

• 56:51Speaker 05

  the car was vibrating so violently, it actually knocked out the camera for a second and then it came by and was like totally out of focus. But that's how visceral and alive this thing was and it, the way I phrased it is, the spirit of the original was really alive in this car.

• 57:06Doug DeMuro?

  Does it make you want a car from this era?

• 57:09Speaker 05

  Yeah, I have become, my eyes, thanks to the Countach largely, have been open to these older cars and the experience they offer because you can't be doing or thinking about anything else. Like there's, you can't focus on it.

• 57:22Doug DeMuro?

  Are we ready to go down this path?

• 57:24Speaker 05

  You know,

• 57:25Doug DeMuro?

  Should I add the Espada to my list of four seater cars?

• 57:27Speaker 05

  You should. The Espada, well, no, the Espada's on my list. I'm gonna take that one.

• 57:30Doug DeMuro?

  Are you gonna get a Viper or are you gonna go get something from this?

• 57:33Speaker 05

  No, no, I still think I need to do a Viper because despite being made in the nineties, that thing is from the sixties.

• 57:37Doug DeMuro?

  It's about as close as you can get. It's short of one of these replicas. Not that, not that one, but like a super four.

• 57:41Speaker 05

  Yeah, well, so it's kind of makes me wonder because I am gonna do this car eventually. I'm, I'm taking my time with it. But I was like, I wonder if I'm gonna like this thing a lot more than I thought I'm going to.

• 57:48Doug DeMuro?

  The Viper?

• 57:49Speaker 05

  The Viper, yeah, because I like, I mean, this thing, I got out of this car much like you do with the Countach and I was like, I'm tired, my ears hurt, I have a headache and I've never been happier. But I don't want to touch it for a while.

• 58:00Doug DeMuro?

  Right.

• 58:00Speaker 05

  But like, you don't want to drive that, maybe even once a week, but it was just like, I just couldn't get over the experience, how cool it was.

• 58:07Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 58:08Speaker 05

  And, and it just opened my eyes. These visceral cars.

• 58:10Doug DeMuro?

  I know, I'm getting more into old cars myself. As the modern cars just become faster and more BS.

• 58:16Speaker 05

  I want the experience.

• 58:16Doug DeMuro?

  Point and shoot BS.

• 58:17Speaker 05

  It's plenty fast, like,

• 58:19Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 58:19Speaker 05

  It's four, this car had four hundred and forty-four brake horsepower at the wheels and it doesn't weigh much, yeah.

• 58:24Doug DeMuro?

  You went and drove a Daytona, Ferrari Daytona as well.

• 58:28Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 58:28Doug DeMuro?

  Like, these are the experiences. It's time, maybe we just should start focusing our way into old. Let's lean in. Let's lean on into the old stuff.

• 58:36Speaker 05

  My, I'm just saying, like, a lot of people write them off. It's like, until you've, if you have the ability to experience one of these cars, if you're given the opportunity, you absolutely should do so. It opened my eyes to how special they are.

• 58:46Doug DeMuro?

  That makes sense. I totally agree. I totally agree that the feel, the nature of those old cars is really, really, really

• 58:53Speaker 05

  They're alive in a way that new cars are just not and can't be either.

• 58:58Speaker 04

  By the way, both videos come on the Cars and Bids YouTube channel.

• 59:00Doug DeMuro?

  Cars and Bids channel, the cars we sold, the Daytona's not going to be on Infotility.

• 59:06Speaker 05

  It's to be determined, but like, but the video will be live on Cars and Bids there.

• 59:10Doug DeMuro?

  Will be up there. Uh, next up, I want to move on to the market report. The market report is brought to you by Cars and Bids. That's what this is.

• 59:17Speaker 04

  Whoa, really?

• 59:19Doug DeMuro?

  Yes, yes. You didn't realize we were trying to sell you, but we are.

• 59:24Speaker 04

  Gotcha.

• 59:25Doug DeMuro?

  We're not doing this for fun. Um, the first thing, the first bit of market report, Ken, can you pull up, uh, over there on the website? Uh, can you type into carsandbids.com? Elan. So we just sold a Lotus Elan for $23,000.

• 59:42Speaker 05

  That car is so cool.

• 59:43Doug DeMuro?

  I don't know if it's high or low. This is a market report. I am merely reporting. Back to you, Filippo.

• 59:50Speaker 04

  Great. Uh, let's talk about Fiesta.

• 59:51Doug DeMuro?

  $23,000.

• 59:53Speaker 04

  Here, I'll, I'll, I'll stay on theme. Let's talk about other cars for $23,000. Go to the Fiesta ST that we just sold. This is a really nice Fiesta ST for 25. The sticker on this car, the window stickers that's in here, was $23,000.

• 1:00:08Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah. The fact that Ford and no other manufacturer is selling a small hot hatch in the U.S. is what is driving the price of these to stay incredibly stable and above MSRP despite having 14,000 miles.

• 1:00:23Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 1:00:25Doug DeMuro?

  There's no downward pressure on these. And so these are going to stay, like, people want them.

• 1:00:28Speaker 04

  And you can't buy a newer version of it.

• 1:00:29Doug DeMuro?

  People want it because it's a great experience.

• 1:00:32Speaker 05

  You know, I understand why Ford killed their cars. Like, I understand the reasoning and ultimately it has worked out for them from a, I think, larger from a product perspective, but. This era, this and the Focus ST and the Focus RS, like, they were all excellent cars.

• 1:00:48Doug DeMuro?

  They're.

• 1:00:48Speaker 05

  Like, man, imagine if they kept going down that road, like.

• 1:00:51Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, no, and I agree with you. The market is interested in the car still at what it costs, more or less, because it was a great car and there's nothing else that you can get.

• 1:01:00Speaker 04

  If you want a hot hatch.

• 1:01:02Doug DeMuro?

  The GTI?

• 1:01:02Speaker 04

  You can get a GTI still, which is around the same money, to be honest, for a base GTI.

• 1:01:07Doug DeMuro?

  This is more engaging.

• 1:01:08Speaker 04

  Right, and it's smaller and it feels more raw, I think, and it's, I get it.

• 1:01:12Doug DeMuro?

  Better steer.

• 1:01:13Speaker 04

  But it's notable. The other auction that I want to talk about really quickly, if you type in Dirtfish, we are doing a bunch of charity auctions alongside the folks at Dirtfish. We have an incredible selection of auctions that the Dirtfish team have curated. They're great, kind of right, driving school up in Pacific Northwest, including a Lea Block signed her race suit, a bunch of racetrack experiences, and a bunch of other really cool experiences. These are all for charity. 100% of the proceeds go to Dirtfish Women in Motorsports Program. Go check them out.

• 1:01:42Doug DeMuro?

  Private group tour of the Singer headquarters.

• 1:01:44Speaker 04

  That's pretty cool. If you're at the Singer.

• 1:01:45Doug DeMuro?

  Spike Ferriston, this is your chance.

• 1:01:51Doug DeMuro?

  So true. That's so true. For up to 65 guests.

• 1:01:56Speaker 05

  It's already up to seven grand.

• 1:01:57Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, it's kind of a cool thing.

• 1:01:59Speaker 04

  But yeah, please legitimately do check these out. They're all for a good cause and they're kind of fun.

• 1:02:03Doug DeMuro?

  Okay, that's cool. I want to move on to questions. Questions, questions. The questions, of course, are brought to you by Ken and Z395, the greatest car ever manufactured.

• 1:02:13Speaker 05

  That's correct. That's specific one.

• 1:02:18Doug DeMuro?

  You can ask your questions for next week's pod. You go to carsandbids.com, you click on the community tab, and then the podcast questions section.

• 1:02:25Speaker 05

  And last week you said that the people, the questions weren't very good.

• 1:02:28Doug DeMuro?

  The questions weren't great last week. This week they were voluminous. There were a lot of them. They were also pretty good. We can do better. Give us your questions. Please give us your questions. We want good questions. Good, good, good questions, starting with from Oink, Oink, Doink. Do you think, do you guys think that the Miata should go the way of the C8 Corvette and go mid-engine? You know, it's kind of a ridiculous question on its face, the idea of the Miata, a cheap car being mid-engine. But there was a time, when I was a child, and when Filippo. Had not yet existed, but there were actually a lot of cheap mid-engine cars. Toyota made the MR2.

• 1:03:08Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 1:03:08Doug DeMuro?

  Pontiac had the Fiero. It wasn't like out of the realm for this to happen. They were like mid-engine sports cars. It was like a thing. The Honda Beat, for God's sake, was like

• 1:03:18Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:03:19Doug DeMuro?

  Four inches long. And that's all gone. Obviously, if the Miata wanted to be its most capable, it would be cool to have a mid-engine cheap car again.

• 1:03:30Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:03:31Doug DeMuro?

  I don't think anybody's doing it or planning it.

• 1:03:33Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's interesting because, yeah, the Miata's focus was being like their design brief was the Lotus Elan, the original one, not the one we just sold, which was a, you know, classic British roadster. Engine up front, rear wheel drive, super lightweight, very high revving. Like, that was kind of the focus. But it is interesting, the idea of a mid-engine Miata.

• 1:03:52Doug DeMuro?

  I'm not sure if the Miata specifically should go mid-engine. It's not really where, what it was thinking of.

• 1:03:57Speaker 05

  It's lineage.

• 1:03:57Doug DeMuro?

  That's not its point. It's never been.

• 1:03:59Speaker 05

  But that wasn't the Corvettes either.

• 1:04:01Speaker 04

  Well, the Corvettes was always to be the most kind of advanced supercar fighting car for less.

• 1:04:07Doug DeMuro?

  I do think that it would be cool if there was some movement. I honestly, I wish the MR2 would come back.

• 1:04:12Speaker 05

  I agree.

• 1:04:12Doug DeMuro?

  I think the SW20 MR2 is one of the coolest damn cars ever to exist, and I just wish it would come back. I really, really, really, really do.

• 1:04:20Speaker 05

  I actually think the GT86 program, it should have been a mid-engine two-seater sports car.

• 1:04:24Doug DeMuro?

  They're gonna be like, it is mid-engine, it's a front mid-engine.

• 1:04:26Speaker 05

  Yeah, rear mid-engine, true.

• 1:04:28Doug DeMuro?

  True, true. Uh, next question from ColinDowd27. Dear Doug, does cars and bids, being cars and bids mean you would never buy from a competitor? If the perfect Supra or 911 GT2 came up for sale and bring the trailer, would you buy it? I'm not buying any 911 GT2s, Colin Dowd. I just said I'm off two-seaters. Well, he's not listening.

• 1:04:48Speaker 05

  Not listening.

• 1:04:49Doug DeMuro?

  He's unbelievable.

• 1:04:50Speaker 05

  Incredible.

• 1:04:51Doug DeMuro?

  No, remember, I said a couple of weeks ago on this podcast, I will not buy any more Porsches.

• 1:04:56Speaker 05

  Except if the right GT2 comes along.

• 1:04:58Doug DeMuro?

  No, I'm done with two seaters. Oh, I'm serious. I am done. I have zero interest. If the right GT2 came along, I'd say, cool, I'm not buying it. Zero interest. Not buying two seaters anymore.

• 1:05:08Speaker 05

  You know, my understanding is when you make these hard lines in the sand, boy, are they flexible.

• 1:05:12Doug DeMuro?

  No, not.

• 1:05:12Speaker 05

  I think this could still happen.

• 1:05:15Doug DeMuro?

  In what way? Which ones have I been flexible on? I was off cars.

• 1:05:18Speaker 05

  I'm off cars. Then you bought two cars in that same year.

• 1:05:21Doug DeMuro?

  Three years I was off cars. Three long years.

• 1:05:25Speaker 05

  I'm not buying any cars this year. The same year I bought a Carrera GT.

• 1:05:29Doug DeMuro?

  But.

• 1:05:30Speaker 05

  That you've.

• 1:05:30Doug DeMuro?

  If the car, yeah, if the Supra, I'm definitely not getting any more two seaters, truly. I've done on my mind. I don't have space. It doesn't add anything to my life.

• 1:05:40Doug DeMuro?

  If the right Supra came and bring the trailer, I'd buy it. I'm gonna tell you something, and I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm not gonna get too far into this. Cars and bids people have bought cars on Bring the Trailer, and Bring the Trailer people have bought cars on Cars and Bids. That's all I'm gonna say about that. I think that if the right car lets you buy it, you know what I'm saying?

• 1:05:56Speaker 05

  And none of us can afford to buy cars from Arm Southaby, so that's that. But yes, I think that that.

• 1:06:01Doug DeMuro?

  You know what they sold this week?

• 1:06:03Speaker 05

  What did Arm Southaby?

• 1:06:04Doug DeMuro?

  They sold a bunch of stuff in Europe, okay? And it was like, yeah, I have 50 for 10 million euro and all this stuff.

• 1:06:10Speaker 05

  Monaco for the Historics.

• 1:06:11Doug DeMuro?

  You know what else they sold? They sold like Jackie Ices' like pocketbook or something. It wasn't exactly that, but it was like from, it was like, it was like Fangio's like, like Mechanics Notes or something. And they sold like a bunch of stuff like that. And for like, the estimate was like 3,000 euro, and some of it sold for like 80,000 euro, but it was like old school like stuff.

• 1:06:36Speaker 05

  That's cool.

• 1:06:37Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:37Speaker 05

  Yeah, I'd do that.

• 1:06:38Doug DeMuro?

  So we can afford that.

• 1:06:39Speaker 05

  We can.

• 1:06:40Doug DeMuro?

  The fees are too rich for my blood.

• 1:06:42Speaker 05

  Right, yeah, 12%.

• 1:06:43Doug DeMuro?

  No, I completely agree with that. If I, the answer to the question is if you would buy a car on other platforms, I would because sometimes you have a choice. I ain't selling on other platforms, let me tell you that, especially after some recent sales. You know, Cars and Bids is the place. That's all I'm gonna say.

• 1:06:57Speaker 05

  Factually.

• 1:06:58Doug DeMuro?

  Next question from Joe Suay. This is a great question that's devoted to me, but I think we should all really think about it. Doug, if you were to purchase a vehicle today to recreate what you did for your channel with the Ferrari 360, what would you choose? So the question, that that car like blew up the YouTube channel, got a lot of attention, started things off.

• 1:07:16Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's important to contextualize.

• 1:07:17Doug DeMuro?

  Do if you were trying to do that today with a car?

• 1:07:22Speaker 05

  I think it is.

• 1:07:23Doug DeMuro?

  Couldn't have a 360, it's like not.

• 1:07:24Speaker 05

  No, no, I mean, I don't even know a lot of the supercars, like a lot of people found out that they don't really garner that much attention. I mean, Tyler Hoover talked about this when he bought the Veyron. He, there's waning interest over like after like three videos.

• 1:07:37Doug DeMuro?

  Hamilton collection's out there clickbaiting people, trying to get people to click on his, the desco was bad. What would you do? Like what? And assume you can't have that kind of, you don't have that kind of money to spend. Like what would you actually do?

• 1:07:50Speaker 05

  Well, I mean, I kind of did, granted I didn't have that long. The SL65, I was shocked at how much attention that got. There are a lot of interesting cars, I think, if you buy something that is notoriously unreliable.

• 1:07:58Doug DeMuro?

  It's gotta be bell curvy enough, like an SL65 is is a little bit too obscure to like. I think the reason the Ferrari resonated, it was like a Ferrari, a Ferrari.

• 1:08:08Speaker 05

  Ferrari, yeah.

• 1:08:09Speaker 04

  Which doesn't matter anymore. I, I think Tavor has taught us that you can do that rebuilding of P1 or Matt Armstrong with a, with a shoe around.

• 1:08:17Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:08:17Speaker 04

  He also taught us you can do that with pimp my ride vehicles.

• 1:08:20Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:22Speaker 04

  So like something that like resonates with people, but.

• 1:08:24Doug DeMuro?

  Do you think the pimp my ride car gets more than two big videos?

• 1:08:28Speaker 04

  Oh, of course.

• 1:08:29Doug DeMuro?

  Like that Ferrari, I, I rode that thing's.

• 1:08:32Speaker 05

  Trajectory.

• 1:08:32Doug DeMuro?

  Non-challenge grill for a whole year.

• 1:08:35Speaker 05

  Bulbous non-challenge.

• 1:08:36Speaker 04

  And nothing quite replicated that, even in your own.

• 1:08:39Speaker 05

  That's true. I mean, I don't know. It's just such a different landscape now. It's like, it's hard to imagine because it was, you were just, wow, this guy has a, that's how, that's how I found you. Was wow, this guy has a Ferrari, he's doing stuff with it.

• 1:08:50Speaker 04

  Think a car is enough.

• 1:08:51Doug DeMuro?

  I don't think there's like a single car anymore.

• 1:08:54Speaker 04

  I think like a story and like a build can still kind of work for the right car.

• 1:08:59Doug DeMuro?

  You know, when I reviewed that low res car?

• 1:09:02Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:09:02Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:09:03Doug DeMuro?

  If you did, like took that to the McDonald's drive through.

• 1:09:05Speaker 04

  Yeah, that would suck. That'd suck.

• 1:09:07Doug DeMuro?

  That would bring, that'd go viral.

• 1:09:09Speaker 04

  Unfortunately, you can't.

• 1:09:11Doug DeMuro?

  Like essentially. You could get some great content out of driving a low res car through the McDonald's drive thru. But you reviewed that ferret tank or whatever. Yeah. How did that do? I think it did well, but that was back when all the videos like blew up. Uh, I don't know the answer, but I would do, you would have to be something so absolutely ridiculous that it like also did well with shorts and like did well. Shorts is a key. I'll tell you what, get an ass park owl. There you go. All it takes is a few million. That's the problem. It also has to be a car you can buy for about what the 360 cost. Yeah. You know, because other like if I had a zillion dollars, could I think of something? Yeah, I would make an iceberg car. And what it would be is. Would it melt? Well, that's, you would click on it to find out, wouldn't you?

• 1:09:56Doug DeMuro?

  That's one video.

• 1:09:59Doug DeMuro?

  Do seals live on it? That's another video.

• 1:10:02Speaker 00

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side, but Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid and risked 350,000 Virginians healthcare to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the House Majority PAC dot com, not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 1:10:33Doug DeMuro?

  It depends on the answer to part one.

• 1:10:36Doug DeMuro?

  I don't even know if that is part one. I don't think part one is the melting. I think I'm gonna make you watch like six minutes before you find out it melts. See, he's still got it. Yeah, that's right. Greatest mind on YouTube. Uh, Dear Doug from Drake, Dear Doug, just watched the question about, just watched the video about the Tesla Model Y. Why did you choose the base? I'll tell you what happened. You know the story here? Yeah. First off, I think the base, you know, it's interesting. I got a lot of hate in the comment, you're just the base. Of course it's terrible. People said something like that. It's like, wait a minute. Your brand, who you kind of weirdly awkwardly shill for on Twitter, produces this car. Yep. It's a car they make. Yep. What do you mean, of course it's terrible?

• 1:11:21Doug DeMuro?

  This is a vehicle that is manufactured by the company. If they're not proud of it, if they think it's terrible, why is it on sale? I think a big story of the Model Y is the value prop. I think that's honestly the primary story of that car. I don't think, I think it does a lot of stuff well, but I think the value proposition is the thing that it does the best. And the base car has the best value prop. And people in the comments, they didn't, no one outright said this, but it was sort of implied. You should review the good one, but talk about how cheap the base is. We don't do ads here, folks. That's how, that's how they, that's how they did newspaper ads back in the nineties. Come on in, we can lease it for nine to nine bucks. And then you show up and there's like one car on the lot. This is a car they make, they sell it. What am I supposed to do? We reviewed it, we borrowed, we got it on Turo.

• 1:12:04Doug DeMuro?

  We reviewed it, it was, it was, it was kind of mediocre, to be honest. But it's a product they manufacture. Like, I'm not, you can't blame me for it being bad, call Elon. It is funny. When I started reviewing electric cars, you reviewed an EV, you were a lib. You were, people would get in the comments, like, you are a Democrat, you're so EV, pro EV. I can't believe you're doing this. This is horrible. Well, man, real cars have gas engines. Like, I would get so much hate about being a liberal. And now you review. And if you don't say good things about a Tesla, now you're a liberal.

• 1:12:40Speaker 04

  Yep. Wild.

• 1:12:41Doug DeMuro?

  You gotta say good things about the electric car.

• 1:12:45Speaker 04

  The world of wild.

• 1:12:45Doug DeMuro?

  It's amazing how quickly. Jesus. Uh, I wanted to ask, uh, one last question here, which is kind of an interesting one. I don't know if you know this, Ryan5ever asks, uh, I know you don't do politics, wink, but do you know that Mallory McMorrow, uh, a United States Senate candidate in Michigan, won a design competition to design what would become the 2018 Mazda 3? Do you know, have you been following Mallory?

• 1:13:07Speaker 04

  Uh, I know that she is, her husband is Ray Wirt, who is in the car world somehow.

• 1:13:12Doug DeMuro?

  Ray Wirt founded Jalopnik.

• 1:13:14Speaker 04

  There we go.

• 1:13:15Doug DeMuro?

  And was the original editor of Jelobnik along with, uh, what's his name? The crazy guy who moved back to Hungary.

• 1:13:22Doug DeMuro?

  The Gawker Media crazy guy, what's his name?

• 1:13:24Speaker 04

  I'm just curious where this guy is.

• 1:13:25Doug DeMuro?

  You remember the guy?

• 1:13:27Speaker 04

  Keep going.

• 1:13:27Doug DeMuro?

  Nick Denton. So, so Nick Denton and, uh, and, and Ray Wirt there were, they started Jelobnik. And she became a state senator in Missouri and is now running for US senate in Missouri. And like, I'm sorry, Michigan. And like, it's, it seems like a possibility that she may actually get elected, which is interesting.

• 1:13:46Speaker 04

  The people of Michigan, which includes your family, will not take kindly to Missouri being mistaken here.

• 1:13:51Doug DeMuro?

  Dude, I'll be honest with you. I live in Michigan way more.

• 1:13:58Doug DeMuro?

  It's interesting, isn't it?

• 1:14:00Speaker 04

  It is interesting. She designed.

• 1:14:01Doug DeMuro?

  Did you know about this?

• 1:14:02Speaker 04

  No, I did not.

• 1:14:02Doug DeMuro?

  Did you know she was running for senate?

• 1:14:04Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:14:04Doug DeMuro?

  Oh, there you go.

• 1:14:06Speaker 04

  I pay attention to.

• 1:14:07Doug DeMuro?

  I'll, I'll tell you why I support Mallory. She's a Democrat. She's a car person. You know, one time, I'm going to tell you a story. One time I went to the White House there in the Washington DC and parked in the White House Oval. There was a Maserati, this was during the Trump years, was a Maserati Gran Turismo. And I was thinking, okay, okay.

• 1:14:26Speaker 04

  Somebody I'm not going to vote for next.

• 1:14:30Doug DeMuro?

  The car world is going to be fine. We have a car person in the White House. Who one of these people?

• 1:14:36Speaker 04

  Who was it?

• 1:14:36Doug DeMuro?

  I don't know.

• 1:14:37Speaker 04

  No, no, not in the senate, like.

• 1:14:40Doug DeMuro?

  No, no, this was in the White House ellipse. Not the Capitol, the White House. This was someone who worked in the White House is driving around in a Gran Turismo. We had an inn, Filippo, and now Jamie Raskin is preventing people from driving here from Vancouver. Oh my God, I was just trying to go to Palm Springs for the winter. They won't let me in. Uh, okay, that's that.

• 1:15:02Speaker 04

  So much.

• 1:15:04Doug DeMuro?

  It's ridiculous. The stupidest thing I've ever been like.

• 1:15:07Speaker 04

  It is a tough proposal.

• 1:15:08Doug DeMuro?

  Uh, okay. He got anything else?

• 1:15:11Speaker 04

  No, best car pod ever.

• 1:15:14Speaker 05

  You don't have anything else you want to plug?

• 1:15:15Speaker 04

  I do actually have one thing. I got one thing. The key channel, we're six videos in to the key channel, which Sean is in charge of. And the video this week includes our very own Ryan and Joe spending time in an Earthroamer, which I am incredibly jealous of. And I'm, please do go watch it. I've seen like a rough cut and it's fantastic. And so I'm excited for that.

• 1:15:38Speaker 05

  Best podcast we've ever had.

• 1:15:39Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 1:15:39Speaker 05

  Thank you also much for watching. All right, goodbye.

• 1:15:41Speaker 04

  Goodbye.

• 1:15:42Speaker 05

  Goodbye.

• 1:15:42Speaker 04

  Later.