Pod Insights The Bill Simmons Podcast True Super Bowl Contenders, RIP Niners, Savior Penix, and the End for Rodgers (But Not for Russ) with Cousin Sal About this episode The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Cousin Sal to discuss Josh Allen's mounting MVP case, and the continuation of the 49ers' season from hell after falling to the Bills (2:16). Then, they talk Ravens-Eagles, Bengals-Steelers, Falcons-Chargers, and the Snakebitten Jets (20:30). They wonder who is the NFL's new worst head coach, discuss Trevor Lawrence taking a scary hit vs. the Texans, the Bryce Young renaissance, Cardinals-Vikings, and the still confounding NFC West (46:57). Finally, they guess the lines for NFL Week 14, and close the show with Parent Corner (1:04:21).
Host: Bill Simmons
Guest: Cousin Sal
Producer: Kyle Crichton
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Transcript 19,169 words · 4 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:02 Bill Simmons? Coming up, Thanksgiving weekend football, always fun, Cousin Sal, next. This episode is brought to you by Uber Eats. It's football season. Uber Eats is delivering deals every game day. This week, get 10 free boneless wings from Wingstop on qualifying orders. Game on, flavor on, Wingstop is here. So if your fantasy league is coming over for some in-person smack talk, order Wingstop on Uber Eats and get 10 boneless wings free. It's the perfect way to keep everyone fed tonight so you can focus on the game. No matter who scores big tonight, you'll score a great deal. Order now and get 10 boneless wings free from Wingstop, only on Uber Eats. Offer valid from September 14th to September 27th, and from November 2nd to November 16th. Order minimum before taxes and fees is required.
0:47 Bill Simmons? See retailer's storefront for details. Taxes, fees, and terms apply. Product availability varies by region. Exclusions may apply. See app for details. All right, quick break. This episode is brought to you by Fire TV. You ever sit down, ready to watch the game, only to search and scroll endlessly? If so, you need Fire TV. It shows your live games from your favorite teams all in one place, right on the home screen. No more searching. Just sit down and turn on Fire TV. Separate subscriptions may be required. Feature and content availability may vary. We're also brought to by The Ringer Podcast Network. You can watch all the clips and videos from the Bill Simmons Podcast on my YouTube channel. It's called the Bill Simmons YouTube
1:29 Bill Simmons? Channel. So, I'm not sure we're gonna have a Rewatchables podcast this week. I know. I know, we've had a pretty good streak. It was, it was a, just a variety of things that happened over the last eight, nine days. And it just, like, we lost our studio. Thanksgiving week, I have a bunch of stuff at the beginning of this week, and it just doesn't look like we're going to be able to tape a podcast. So, we might take the week off. But here's the thing. We've done, I think, 365 movies. A bunch of them are on The Ringer Movies YouTube channel. We have seven years' worth of podcasts to listen to. And I would just encourage you to go back if you, if you miss us on the rewatchables,
2:11 Bill Simmons? just go back and listen to one of the old ones, or you can watch Yacht Rock, a documentary on Max, because that documentary premiered on Friday and people loved it. I was fired up. Uh, people really liked it and it's doing well. And you can just go, instead of listening to the rewatchables, just go watch our, uh, our yacht rock documentary. But, uh, I apologize. We'll be back next week. I'm also going to be in Denver with Russillo this week. We are doing a live show. It's already sold out, but really look forward to going. I think we're going to the Nuggets game on Tuesday night as well to see Jokic in his own domain in Denver. So that's going to be super fun. Uh, coming up on this podcast, Cousin Sal and I are going to break down everything that happened today and across the week. Always
2:56 Bill Simmons? a strange three Thursday games, a Friday game, all the Sunday games. So we're going to try to remember everything that happened, see where it stands and where it's headed. It's all next. First, our friends from Pro Jam.
3:29 Bill Simmons? We are live on YouTube. We are live on the BS podcast. Cousin Sal is here. It is 8:15 PM. Feels a little early for us on a Sunday night, right?
3:39 Speaker 01 Yeah, they did a nice job of just running and running and running the ball so that we can get out early and talk about the sloppy, sloppy game. But, but, uh, I, I, Bill, forget Hallie Steinfeld. I'm going to marry Josh Allen right now. I'll think-
3:54 Bill Simmons? He threw a pass and he caught it for a TD, Mike. Same play. I've never seen that.
3:59 Speaker 01 I don't, I don't care if my son Jack is freezing his balls off on the field. I'm going to marry that Josh Allen. You watch.
4:07 Bill Simmons? My son Jack is like Jack Torrance freezing to death in a chair.
4:13 Bill Simmons? Yes, no. Second time in a week and a half for us. It felt a little less special after Brown Steelers, but it was still really fun.
4:20 Speaker 01 Do you like it? You like the game? I don't, I don't know.
4:23 Bill Simmons? It's, I mean, after we watched football for 10 hours, it was fun to have a wrinkle of a game that actually looked a little bit different. And the, the big thing was this McCaffrey, them playing him in those conditions. And we don't know, we're, we're taping this and we don't know how badly he got hurt, but he limped off. It didn't look great.
4:42 Speaker 01 It was like a bad pop in his ankle.
4:44 Bill Simmons? Yeah, there are injury doctors like studying that his calf jiggle jiggle and all this stuff, but um, I don't know why they played him. It wasn't a game. I thought they really had a lot of a chance to win. Buffalo was like a touchdown favorite. Um, it wasn't a game that necessarily made or break, made or broke their season because they have a bunch of stuff later. And it just felt like even watching it, I was surprised they didn't talk about it more in the lead up to the game than in the first quarter. Right? Because he didn't seem healthy the last couple of weeks.
5:15 Speaker 01 I think the problem with these game, well, first of all, with these snow games, it's like, uh, it's either gonna be six to three, right? Which is like kinda disappointing, or it's gonna be like we just saw where everybody's sliding for nine yards. Like this is backyard football right now. And so I think they put him in there because they know, I mean, who's better at like quick stepping through holes than McCaffrey?
5:37 Bill Simmons? If he's healthy.
5:38 Speaker 01 It's gonna be the game if he's healthy. Yeah. I mean, he was looking good early on, but yeah, they got, they got smoked. I mean, Josh Allen was just perfect for that one.
5:46 Bill Simmons? Tough fantasy thing if you had him. You're counting on him for a Sunday night. Tough for the Niners fans. The year from hell is officially happening, but I was thinking like playing McCaffrey in that kind of weather. It would've been like at the, how many people did you have for Thanksgiving?
6:03 Speaker 01 20.
6:05 Bill Simmons? So if you said, hey, all the relatives over 70, let's, let's all start doing shots.
6:09 Speaker 01 Mm hmm.
6:10 Bill Simmons? Somebody would have said, bad idea. Don't do that.
6:12 Speaker 01 Yeah, but we did it. We did it anyway.
6:14 Bill Simmons? You did it.
6:14 Speaker 01 It was, it was Zappel Snyder.
6:16 Bill Simmons? McCaffrey in the snow, same thing.
6:18 Speaker 01 Yeah.
6:18 Bill Simmons? I was trying to think, would, if Achilles is trending on Twitter, which it was today, would he have been the like minus 400 for Achilles trending on a Sunday? I would add him, a couple of other suspects, like people who have already had Achilles injuries, like Rogers, Kevin Durant, but I think he would have been the favorite.
6:38 Speaker 01 That's a really good, I would, could we bet on that, something like that? Like trending topics, like if sucking the life out of a team is all right, Aaron Rodgers, minus 3,500, or is it, you know, Bryce Young, no, he was actually good today.
6:54 Bill Simmons? Well, they just have the word. Sometimes it'll just be like Rogers.
6:58 Speaker 01 Yeah.
6:58 Bill Simmons? And you just know something bad happened.
7:00 Speaker 01 Yes.
7:01 Bill Simmons? This one Achilles, not great. My, uh, my wife waited. My wife came in and watched some of the game. She thought the weather was unfair.
7:11 Bill Simmons? She thought it was an advantage for Buffalo and she doesn't understand why they would want to have advantages in the games. And I was like, well, that's why we have the phrase home field advantage.
7:22 Speaker 01 Right.
7:22 Bill Simmons? She's like, but why wouldn't they build, it snows in Buffalo every year. She went to school in upstate New York. She's like, it's, the weather's terrible. Why wouldn't they have like a stadium with a roof? I was like, no, you don't get it. That's, they actually want this. This is great for them. Like they have this team from Northern California coming in and playing in shitty conditions. That's what you want if you're a Bills fan, right?
7:44 Speaker 01 Absolutely. No doubt about it.
7:45 Bill Simmons? You went to college up there. I mean, you saw some of this.
7:48 Speaker 01 The second place team is the Dolphins. We saw enough, you know, they were learning Buffalo this week, but we know that strategically, that's of course how you do it. Yeah, I went up, that lake effect snow is, uh, is a real goddamn thing. But yeah, they'll have the advantage for as long as, I mean, they've never sucked in the snow, right? So that's all you need to know.
8:06 Bill Simmons? No, it just feels like Alan Snow, home, night game. I put Buffalo, I had them in a couple of teases. It just seemed like I'd be shocked if
8:15 Speaker 01 Smart.
8:16 Bill Simmons? This didn't somehow work out for them. You, I'm starting to see from your demeanor, something bad might have happened today with you.
8:21 Speaker 01 No.
8:22 Bill Simmons? Are you sure?
8:23 Speaker 01 What do you mean?
8:23 Bill Simmons? Did you see your bets go? Everything go okay?
8:25 Speaker 01 No, they were fine. I had a battle back. I mean, I know this is not the way to do it, but Ohio State just crushed me. I thought that I had a four-team money line parlay, but I'm thankful because had the Lions blown it, like they should have, maybe, had the Chiefs blown it like they should have, I would have doubled and tripled up on a Ohio State money line parlay with something else. But, but no, I had, my only loser was the Ravens, and I know we'll get to that, but that was such a bummer of a game.
8:53 Bill Simmons? That was my only loser, too. I did, I did well today. Got, got a little luck, you know? I felt like some of the 50-50 games swung my way. Really glad I didn't have any money in that Tampa game, because that seemed like a nightmare, even though they covered. Buffalo going 10-2 now. They're still in the two seed. Pittsburgh now 9-3, two up in the loss column over Baltimore, and yet the odds for, for that division are kind of weirdly close for, for where I thought that was going to be. Like, the Steelers are only like, what, plus 125, and Baltimore's plus 155?
9:30 Speaker 01 The other way.
9:31 Bill Simmons? Oh, yeah.
9:31 Speaker 01 No, no.
9:31 Bill Simmons? Pittsburgh's minus 155, Baltimore's plus 125. They play each other again, and they both have that weird Saturday, Wednesday, Saturday, Christmas game combo. And I don't think they know how to do the odds for that.
9:43 Speaker 01 No, I think you're right, but looking, and you look at the same games I do. I think the Steelers home for the Browns next week is the last time they're going to be favored, right? So that's why I think it's so tight, but I don't even know what with the Ravens, like they...
9:57 Bill Simmons? Well, say that, because I want to talk Ravens.
10:00 Speaker 01 Yeah.
10:00 Bill Simmons? So Pittsburgh has Cleveland home, then at Philly, at Baltimore on a Saturday.
10:04 Speaker 01 Underdog, yeah.
10:05 Bill Simmons? KC home Christmas, and then home Cincinnati, week 18.
10:11 Speaker 01 Yeah.
10:11 Bill Simmons? Baltimore is a bye. They have the Giants away, Pittsburgh home, Houston home on Christmas, Cleveland home. So they finished with three in a row. The reason I bring this up in the context of Buffalo is because...
10:25 Bill Simmons? I really want that two seed if I'm in the AFC. And Buffalo right now is the game advantage and it feels like Pittsburgh, Baltimore, however this plays out, I don't think either of those teams catches Buffalo the way this is going.
10:38 Speaker 01 Buffalo. You want the two.
10:39 Bill Simmons? They put a pass three.
10:41 Speaker 01 You're saying you want the two.
10:42 Bill Simmons? I want the two seed. I want to play Denver or whoever as the seven seed in that first game. I don't, you know, I want a home game and I want the two, three in the second round potentially. And I, the two seed sounds great if I'm Buffalo.
10:56 Speaker 01 Absolutely. And we saw what Buffalo did to Pittsburgh at home last year, right? They canceled the game 14 times and then finally played it and they won by two touchdowns. It'd be similar to, maybe not similar to what we saw today, but um, yeah, you definitely want home field if you're an outdoor team like that.
11:12 Bill Simmons? Well, it's, yeah, and especially this year with that seven seed, but they're also a game behind KC who, you know, that Black Friday game feels like it happened five, you know, five weeks ago, but KC just yet another pulling it out of their assholes game. They're somehow 11 and one. Nobody feels good about it. This last one really feels like of all the, the Isaiah Likely is a 10 on a scale of one to 10 of I can't believe you won that game, the foot on the line.
11:40 Speaker 01 Right.
11:40 Bill Simmons? The Black Friday was probably like an eight. It was the Raiders. It was Antonio Pierce. It was Aiden O'Connell. Like there were things I didn't love about it. If you're, if you're scared for, for them losing, but um, they somehow steal it. I have no idea how they're 11 and one. They're already like, they were doing these stats about how it's like happened four times ever where a team has won this many games by seven points or less. Like they're already like making history and there's four weeks left.
12:08 Speaker 01 Yeah, their point differential should be about 330, plus 330, and I think it's plus 54.
12:13 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
12:14 Speaker 01 But I, I have a bigger statement to make. I think, Kyle, can you turn on the MySpace camera right now? I feel, did he turn it on? It's always hard to tell. The Chiefs will be the first great team whose legacy is affected by their impact on gambling.
12:31 Speaker 01 I feel like no one back in the day would care if the 70s Steelers or the 80s 49ers covered the spread, but it's a big deal now. And even though they won on Friday, games like that like leave a bad taste in your mouth. And I feel like they're a great team, but they're not going to be remembered like your Patriots are, even if they get to that many Super Bowls. Like, damn it, I just couldn't win money off of them. I could never do it. I don't know why. So many people bet on them. That's just how it is these days.
12:58 Bill Simmons? I, it's a great point. I looked it up because in our picks poll that we have, I didn't bet, I would never bet on the Raiders. That line was so high. It was 12 and a half. And I was like, man, it just doesn't seem like the Chiefs are reliable double figures over anybody. Like, what have, what have they been like the last couple of years? You go back this year and last year and it's just, they don't have a lot of blowout wins. It's not like the typical, like a game like today where Buffalo just beats the hell out of somebody. But they have a way of hanging around and just figuring it out. We've been talking about it for, um, for months and months. It was, somebody who texted, I'm, I'm blowing this. So some friend texted me.
13:36 Speaker 01 Just say hatch. I'm sure it was.
13:38 Bill Simmons? No, because this is a wrestling thing. He wouldn't have.
13:40 Speaker 01 Oh, oh, yeah.
13:41 Bill Simmons? It's the Chiefs that become a wrestling finish team.
13:45 Speaker 01 Oh.
13:45 Bill Simmons? Where it's like, like, remember Hogan in the mid 80s? And every Hogan match was the same for five years where the guy would beat him up, beat him up, then he would Hulk up and the guy would beat him up and then he'd Hulk up again and be like, oh, he's, maybe this is the time he's not going to win. And then he'd suddenly he'd flip it. He'd do the leg drop and he'd win. That's kind of what the Chiefs have been doing for two years now.
14:07 Speaker 01 Interesting. See, I'd compare it to like a weird finish, like a, a roll up from behind when the referee's not looking or when the manager distracts the guy. It's like, oh crap.
14:17 Bill Simmons? Mr. Fuji salt in the face?
14:19 Speaker 01 Yeah. Oh, how did they pull that out? That's ridiculous. The crowd was pumped. It was, it was heat. Yeah. Something like that. Yeah. Salt, yeah. Salt to the eyes.
14:29 Bill Simmons? You've been doing a lot of me. You were, you were up today. What were we doing our Sunday pregame?
14:34 Speaker 01 Yeah.
14:34 Bill Simmons? 11 o'clock?
14:35 Speaker 01 You were on there. Yeah.
14:36 Bill Simmons? I came on at nine o'clock. I had like an hour, but you've been doing a lot of media today. We have been doing really well in the pregame show and John Jastremski is just becoming the weak link. I don't know what we do. Do we whack them? Do we do, do we do it like Pesci style? Hey, JJ, you're getting made. You're in the ringer. You're getting made. And he just walks in the room. There's just plastic on the floor. He ruined, everybody hit the same game touchdown bet today. Anytime touchdown, three for four. No, JJ and Kenneth Walker. What do we do? Do we pull him for a week? Do we bench him? Do we bring in another host? What do we do?
15:13 Speaker 01 I'm gonna laugh extra hard because you have no idea how seriously he's gonna take this.
15:17 Bill Simmons? I know. Yo, bro, we're serious?
15:21 Speaker 01 He's not gonna have a great sense of humor about this and I love him, but um, yeah, I don't know. JJ, we're kidding. I mean, Bill's not kidding, but I'm kidding.
15:30 Bill Simmons? No, it is good. It's good to have, it's good to have a common barometer for the normal, normal betting as we ascend above with all of our gripes. No, I feel like he'll turn around. In general, like I said it when I was on the show today, the gravitating toward the bad teams, especially this time of year, unless it's like a straight money line play like the Panthers. I just like House was saying, should we throw the Tennessee in the tees? It's like, I don't want to put Tennessee. I had never put them in a tees. I don't trust Will Levis.
15:57 Speaker 01 That would have been over before.
15:59 Bill Simmons? There's certain teams that are just like, I don't trust.
16:01 Speaker 01 There, I get it, but there is some value. Like I had, my best bet was your Patriots over 20 and a half. Like I don't want to have to worry if they won or something. I know, but for God's sakes, we should have had that in the second quarter, right? But the two touchdowns called back and missed field goals and everything else. So there's a little bit of value. It's scary because most of the time you're rooting for bad quarterbacks, but your quarterback is damn good. I'm sure, I'm sure you've set aside 20 minutes for this, but um.
16:25 Bill Simmons? No, I didn't. We're not gonna talk about it today. I will say, I was happy that you were rooting for the Pats to get to 20 points. And got to see what we've seen all year with that Pat's team with the coaching and the strategy. And like Drake, man, every time we went back to pass was just a nine to 15 yard completion of somebody, or he would just run for 40 yards. And then they're like, you know what? We're just going to hand the ball off now for another 10 minutes.
16:48 Speaker 01 Right. Well, he saw a soft zone and I'm sure he would love to see that every week, but and he got the ball out of his hand quickly, like two and a half seconds or less the whole time. But I do want to ask you, were you, I know you root against him at this point because you want a better draft pick. 68 yard field goal would have been pretty cool.
17:06 Bill Simmons? It was moronic. It was 30 degrees outside. What are the odds? What are the odds he's going to make that?
17:11 Speaker 01 It almost made it.
17:12 Bill Simmons? He missed it by seven yards.
17:14 Speaker 01 He did?
17:14 Bill Simmons? Yeah. Oh, yeah. I would rather do the hail Mary.
17:17 Speaker 01 85%.
17:18 Bill Simmons? It like landed seven yards in front of the goalpost, which means to actually clear it.
17:23 Speaker 01 I must have seen.
17:23 Bill Simmons? Nobody's making that. There's not a kicker in the league that can make that. So Rudy texted us during this that Shanahan said McCaffrey has probably a season ending PCL injury. So it's a knee injury.
17:35 Speaker 01 Ah, Jesus.
17:37 Bill Simmons? Tough one.
17:38 Speaker 01 That's really bad.
17:39 Bill Simmons? The official year from hell for the Niners and somehow they are not out of it. One more Bills Niners topic is this now feels like Allen's MVP to lose. And I feel like we've used the MVP to lose, dot, dot, dot with different players this year, but now there's only five weeks left in the season. He's going to be a one or a two seed, which is one of the, you know, one of the things that usually has it. And it just seems like I, the way Lamar played today and the Ravens played today and they have five losses. He's got two. I don't know. I don't know who's taking that from him. Goff's not going to get it.
18:13 Speaker 01 Well, well, here's what's interesting. The odds are out. And I think you're right. Lamar kind of played himself out of it today. Goff had that five interception game. And even though he's been good since, like he doesn't seem to be able to crawl back in. Mahomes is too far behind. Barkley, this is going to be the narrative right now. He's plus 500. He's second to Josh Allen, who's minus 230.
18:33 Bill Simmons? You know, I know we talked about it last week and I read, read some good pieces just in general about how MVP works. And then I forget who made the point and I was just like, shit, I wish I'd said this week ago.
18:46 Bill Simmons? I know Barkley's having a great year.
18:50 Bill Simmons? But we can't say he's the MVP of the league.
18:54 Bill Simmons? If you just removed him and put an average running back in the Eagles attack, I still think they're a playoff team. If you removed Josh Allen. And let's give them. I don't know who's, who's like the 20th QB. Let's give them Tyrod Taylor. Are they a 500 team?
19:14 Bill Simmons? Probably not.
19:15 Speaker 01 No.
19:15 Bill Simmons? I think the Eagles would be a playoff team, no matter who their running back was, as good as Barkley's been. So I think to me, it's a more of an offensive player of the year. And I hate the MVP conversation where it's always like QB has to win, QB has to win, but.
19:30 Bill Simmons? We just have too much evidence how, how crazy valuable the QB is and everything Allen does week to week. I don't, I don't know how he is.
19:36 Speaker 01 He touches the ball every snap. He has more opportunity to screw up. Obviously has more opportunity to produce numbers too, but. Yeah, I think you're right. But two things working against Barkley. He's a running back and two. He's part of a team that has the best, most effective play in all of sports, which is the tush push.
19:57 Bill Simmons? And he's not a part of.
19:58 Speaker 01 He's not a, yeah, he's not a factor in it. So what are you going to do? That said, if he breaks the record. Maybe he should be considered, right? If he gets the 600 yards, whatever he needs, next four games.
20:10 Bill Simmons? Okay, who's your craziest? I know this guy can't win the MVP.
20:16 Bill Simmons? But he deserves, there, there should be some sort of separate award for what he's doing this year, God, because mine. Is Baker Mayfield, who is 200 to one to win MVP. And just feels like week after week. You know, there was that month long stretch when he just had no weapons. He didn't, couldn't name a single receiver that he had either.
20:35 Speaker 01 Yep.
20:35 Bill Simmons? You know, rookie running back. Their line is like guys are hurt, their left tackle's out. It just feels like he's running for his life every three plays, even today against Carolina. I have no idea how they won that game. But it feels like week to week, he's just dragging that team to whatever the potential of the team is, which isn't high.
20:54 Speaker 01 It's a good one.
20:55 Bill Simmons? And I feel like he should be higher than 200 to one.
20:58 Speaker 01 Absolutely. Great energy he brings. Now, he got hurt for a minute and then came in and threw a bad interception, but he fought, fought them back into the game. I would say if I have to pick someone from that, Joe Burrow, because he's losing games at it just statistically. Like if you look at Brady's numbers, when he put up those, those numbers versus Burrow, Brady was like, you know, 22 and one and Burrow was like three and nine or something. So I don't know what's going on. Probably can't give him MVP, but.
21:27 Bill Simmons? Yeah, Burrow's been saddled with the worst defense in either conference. And it's just over and over again. It feels like they're down 17 points. All right. Break for the podcast.
21:42 Bill Simmons? This episode of the Bill Simmons Podcast is presented by State Farm. Every football player brings something different to the field. Maybe they have a cannon arm, speed, power. Maybe they have their own podcast. That being said, no two players are exactly alike. And the same is true off the field. That's why State Farm takes the time to get to know you. So they can help personalize coverage for your life and budget. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Excitement is in the air. That's right. It's the start of NBA season. I can't wait to get together with friends, share some Michelob Ultras and watch Tip Off. Plus, as the official beer sponsor of the NBA, Michelob Ultra is getting you closer to the action
22:25 Bill Simmons? with experiences that make you feel like you're courtside to actual courtside tickets. Enter now for a chance to win at michelobultra.com/courtside. Michelob Ultra Courtside 26 to 27. No purchase necessary. Open to U.S. residents 21+. Begins on October 1st, 2026. Ends on June 30th, 2027. Multiple entry periods. See official rules at michelobultra.com/courtside for free entry, entry deadlines, prizes and details. Next topic. I wanted to play some, I had some questions. Speaking of the Ravens.
22:57 Bill Simmons? Same old Ravens or brand new Eagles if you had to pick one because something felt a little different about that Eagles game, especially defensively. That was the most excited I've been about their defense in two years. On the flip side, Ravens, you know, nine, nothing, missing PAT, lose momentum for whatever reason, fall behind and it's a team that sometimes when they're behind, I just feel like the game's over and they can't move the ball. All of a sudden it feels like they only have one receiver. Lamar is just running around and it's just, you just watch it going. I feel like I've seen this game and bet on it 20 times and now I'm here again. So which one would you go same old Ravens or brand new Eagles?
23:43 Speaker 01 I don't want to give the Eagles any credit. So, I mean, I gave them enough just saying they have the most effective play in sports, but I'm going to say I'm a cynic. I'm going to say same old Ravens, but for different reasons, like it doesn't make any sense. Like they got the best free agent of the off season, right? Henry and Barclay are one A and, and one B, but, and now with, you know, with Henry, they could close out games. They have leads and it's all negated because the greatest kicker of our generation thinks it's funny to bang every boot into the upright. Like it doesn't really make any sense, does it? How are they going to lose because of this kicker?
24:21 Bill Simmons? Well, that was part of it, but I, I felt like he was getting an unfair. He cost them seven points.
24:28 Speaker 01 Yeah.
24:28 Bill Simmons? They couldn't cover AJ Brown during like a huge swath of that game where it just felt like he was tearing them up. I don't know what they were doing offensively with some of the play calling. As usual, they only had one receiver. Aguilar had his typical, you know, huge drop at a really pivotal moment. I just didn't think, I didn't think the whole team played well. And if Tucker had made all those points, I- Well, except for them.
24:52 Speaker 01 Am I looking at, they gave up 252 total yards, like 112 and 140.
24:55 Bill Simmons? Because the offense had, the offense had the ball a lot, but was, didn't seem to ever be really doing anything with it.
25:00 Speaker 01 Right. Yeah, I know. I know.
25:03 Bill Simmons? But it felt like they, when they're up nine, nothing, 10, nothing, it felt like they were just gonna, that's when they should be putting teams away and they went the opposite way on them.
25:10 Speaker 01 Yeah. Four loss team, up nine, nothing, at home, got the fans on their side. I, I, I still don't understand the kicking because it all led to everything else. Then they had to go for it on fourth and eight because he missed those field goals and
25:22 Bill Simmons? True, true.
25:22 Speaker 01 It gave the Eagles good field position, whatever. Um, um, but that tush push is really like, do you know of anything else like in sports? Like if a bunt down the first baseline worked every single time, or if like a corner kick in soccer? Or like if you deflected a wrist shot in hockey that went in the, went in the net every time. I, I don't know. I don't think that we've seen anything like it.
25:45 Bill Simmons? I'm trying to think. It's almost like Kareem's skyhook is the only thing I could think of.
25:49 Speaker 01 Yeah, maybe.
25:50 Bill Simmons? And even that wasn't nearly as reliable.
25:52 Speaker 01 They false start and fumble and still got it and scored.
25:56 Bill Simmons? Right.
25:56 Speaker 01 Forget it. It's over.
25:58 Bill Simmons? Tucker cost them seven points. It was his first three miss game ever.
26:02 Speaker 01 Yeah.
26:02 Bill Simmons? For the season though, not as bad as I thought. It just felt, it feels like they're all loud misses. He's 19 for 27 as a kicker. Like pretty, pretty run of the mill average. Like I don't think Koo in Atlanta is better than that.
26:16 Speaker 01 I like that when you said a loud, do you mean like literally loud? Like the.
26:20 Bill Simmons? I just, it feels like every miss like really resonated. It wasn't just like, oh, it's a random miss. They're up 16 in the fourth quarter. It's like every miss felt like it was this pivotal momentum swing in a game.
26:31 Speaker 01 But it's also actually loud. Yeah, it's also actually loud.
26:33 Bill Simmons? He's 42 for 44 in PATs. It's not like he's missed a million.
26:37 Speaker 01 Right.
26:37 Bill Simmons? But so he's missed 10 kicks total and yet I think I remember an item. You know, it's just been one of those seasons. So I didn't like how they played though. I really, I feel like if you're up, you have that kind of lead at home.
26:52 Speaker 01 Sure.
26:52 Bill Simmons? Against a team, Hertz finishes 11 for 19 for 118 yards, nine for 29 rushing. You just told me those stats. I'm like, oh, the Ravens won.
27:02 Bill Simmons? The explosiveness, other than Zay Flowers or a big Lamar scramble, just doesn't seem to be there unless Henry can bust through. But I really thought the Eagles defense was excellent. And their D backs that they drafted, Jalen Carter, the fact that he fell to them going back two years ago when all those teams passed on him. They didn't have Brandon Graham today. They still looked, still looked like they didn't miss him. But I thought from what we saw, what are their, what are their NFC odds? Cause we talked about this on the Sunday pregame today. Oh shit. So they were plus 750.
27:35 Bill Simmons? After, I remember looking at that at Thanksgiving after Detroit, who I want to talk about in a second. And I was like, man, Detroit feels vulnerable. I wonder who the, and it's like Philly.
27:46 Speaker 01 They weren't 750 last week.
27:48 Bill Simmons? Packers were plus 750 though. Now they're 71.
27:52 Speaker 01 Yeah.
27:52 Bill Simmons? And Philly, I think was plus 350. Now they're plus 250. That's.
27:55 Speaker 01 That makes sense.
27:56 Bill Simmons? Yeah. So Philly's now plus 250.
28:00 Bill Simmons? And only a game back still from Detroit.
28:02 Speaker 01 I know. And you know what? I know everyone wants them, but well, they have to get the home field. I just think if that running game is working, they'll, they'll win anywhere. I hate to say it, in spite of this coach, it's really, everything is working out perfectly for them.
28:16 Bill Simmons? The coach, it seemed, I remember making a joke on Twitter in September about being ready to try to bring him in for the Ringer. Toast the Ringer Philly special after he got fired. It seemed like it was going to be a rap.
28:27 Speaker 01 I was talking, was it on the chain with you? We were talking about, has a coach like this made a comeback? Like before, like a guy who's.
28:35 Bill Simmons? Yeah, I'm sure it's happened. Well, they've won eight straight. And now you look at their last five, Carolina home, Pittsburgh home, Washington on the road, Dallas home, Giants home. Pittsburgh's probably the toughest of those five. But they have a chance to be 13 in a row. Heading into the playoffs as a two seed or a one seed.
28:54 Speaker 01 Oh, yeah.
28:55 Bill Simmons? Was not expecting that in September.
28:57 Speaker 01 Yeah, their over under is 13 and a half and the over is minus 245. So they're gonna have two or three losses. Yeah.
29:03 Bill Simmons? Ravens had the ball for 34 minutes. They had 24 first downs. They outgained the Eagles by 120 yards. Although a lot of those, that last drive, they had the cheap drive at the end where they went like 80 yards or whatever.
29:18 Bill Simmons? And they have five losses somehow, the Ravens.
29:21 Speaker 01 Yeah.
29:22 Bill Simmons? Would you keep them in your Super Bowl circle at this point? If I gave you seven teams?
29:26 Speaker 01 Yeah, I think you have to because I think, you know, we talked ourselves into, first of all, we have that AFC division parlay with the Bills, the Ravens, the Texans and the Chiefs. And it looks like the Ravens are gonna be the tough one, even though, like you said, they're plus 125. But yeah, if they win that division, I'm pretty sure they could win on the road. Like what, what would be their, if they went to Buffalo, you would, you would feel.
29:49 Bill Simmons? You could argue for them, if you're gonna be a three seed.
29:52 Speaker 01 Yeah.
29:53 Bill Simmons? Like you could also just be the five seed and go in and beat the hell out of Houston in the four or five game.
29:57 Speaker 01 Right.
29:58 Bill Simmons? Right? And then hope a two seed or a three seed loses. If they don't, just go into KC in round two when they haven't played a meaningful game in like a month.
30:08 Speaker 01 Yeah, lose by one score or win. Okay, you know, that's what it's gonna be.
30:12 Bill Simmons? Well, the, uh, our guy, our friends at FanDuel still have them with the best odds. Detroit plus 290. Buffalo five to one, KC plus 550. Eagles plus 550, Ravens 10 to one. Packers 14 to one, I think are the intriguing long shot to me.
30:32 Speaker 01 So that's it. It's those six, right? With a month left, would you say it's those six?
30:36 Bill Simmons? I would put the Steelers in there.
30:37 Speaker 01 Steelers are 24 to one.
30:38 Bill Simmons? I think the Steelers with the coaching and the defense and the field goal kicker who's been the best guy in the league this year.
30:43 Speaker 01 Right.
30:44 Bill Simmons? And the fact that they always seem to make two or three big plays. Right? There's always like a 40 yard play somewhere. I would put, I would have those seven. And then.
30:56 Speaker 01 That's it.
30:57 Bill Simmons? I can't really make a case for any other team.
30:59 Speaker 01 Nah, that's it. Yeah.
31:01 Bill Simmons? That's it, right?
31:03 Speaker 01 Yeah.
31:03 Bill Simmons? Like Chargers? I you start looking at it and you're like, eh.
31:07 Speaker 01 I don't think.
31:08 Bill Simmons? I think that's it.
31:09 Speaker 01 They were, uh, they were not good today. I mean, you had the right side and everything, but I think I told you. I think I told you that game's gonna be 15 13 in the fourth quarter, but it was actually 17 13. It was a little more conventional, but same kind of stuff out of them.
31:24 Bill Simmons? Next topic, next question. Speaking of the Steelers. What were the Russell Wilson comeback player of the year odds? Cause I feel like he already has it wrapped. Who is even in the mix?
31:37 Speaker 01 Well.
31:38 Bill Simmons? Who else would get it?
31:39 Speaker 01 Well, it's a, the odds are up. Borough has been favored like for the last month and he's even odds. And Kyler Murray just jumped ahead of Kirk Cousins now plus 650.
31:48 Bill Simmons? How is Russell Wilson not comeback player of the year? He was dead last year. Denver paid, paid 50 million in their cap to not have him play anymore. And he didn't even start the season and everybody thought Fields was gonna be the starter. This guy, 414 yards, three touchdowns. He threw a pick six because Pickens got interfered with. They didn't call it. That was a red flag since he goes up seven nothing. It's like that was PI. You didn't call it, but, uh, but I, I, I gotta say, I'm, I thought he was done. Didn't seem like he wanted to get hit last year. And he's kind of rejuvenated himself. I mean, he was, he's not awesome. I'm not saying he's Russ from 10 years ago, but for what, whatever they were expecting from him versus what he's delivering, it has to have surpassed it.
32:33 Speaker 01 I'm all confused now with this. He, he played the full boat last year, right?
32:40 Bill Simmons? Yeah, he was terrible. I mean, he got benched for whoever.
32:43 Speaker 01 I don't think you could win.
32:44 Bill Simmons? Career was over.
32:45 Speaker 01 See, there's a whole discrepancy here whether you could win the award just because you sucked last year. I think you have to come back from.
32:50 Bill Simmons? It has to be an injury?
32:51 Speaker 01 Injury or some weird circumstantial, but they still have odds on him. So.
32:56 Bill Simmons? If you asked 100 football fans, what's been the most surprising comeback in 2024, Russell Wilson wins the book.
33:03 Speaker 01 Yeah.
33:04 Bill Simmons? Nobody was like, oh, you know, it's gonna be awesome in Pittsburgh, Russell Wilson. I have a good feeling about this guy. I think he's gonna be great. He seemed like he was done.
33:11 Speaker 01 Wouldn't even think he'd start. Yeah.
33:14 Bill Simmons? Well, you know, I realize this, Sal.
33:18 Bill Simmons? The 2-7 could be Steelers Broncos.
33:21 Speaker 01 Oh, wow. Right.
33:22 Bill Simmons? That's in play. That it would involve Buffalo would have to mess something up, or Denver would somehow jump to six. So maybe it could be a 3-6, but Steelers Broncos, round one would be super fun.
33:36 Speaker 01 Yeah.
33:36 Bill Simmons? Wilson going against a team that paid him to leave. And then he has to play him in the playoffs. But so Tom on coach of the year, do they have the odds for that?
33:45 Speaker 01 Yeah. So I was gonna make a case for that. I don't know that we need to see, although we just did went over their schedule and how tough it is the rest of the way. But
33:53 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
33:54 Speaker 01 I think he's the guy. I mean, he's the favorite. They don't have odds up right now.
33:59 Speaker 01 He would be my pick right now. I mean, the guy, the fact that he's got nine already, he refuses to go under 500. He's so good after a loss, just doesn't F up. It really doesn't.
34:10 Bill Simmons? Who else would it be? I think you could make a guess for Sean McDermott, considering all the change that they had on that team with the coaching staff and some of the injuries.
34:18 Speaker 01 I'm just looking. O'Connell was up there. I'm trying to think.
34:22 Bill Simmons? Yeah, O'Connell's done like rejuvenating, same. Yeah, he's definitely in there.
34:27 Speaker 01 Yeah.
34:27 Bill Simmons? Maybe Dave Canales turning Carolina into like a watchable team over the last five weeks.
34:32 Speaker 01 The kneecap fighter too. Dan Campbell's, I think he was first last week.
34:37 Bill Simmons? Now that's a good one. So Wilson is 15-1 to win comeback player of the year. And Kirk Cousins is 7-1.
34:45 Speaker 01 Yeah. Is that true?
34:47 Bill Simmons? Yeah. Kirk Cousins, who leads the league in interceptions and is probably gonna get benched at some point soon. So Baltimore somehow still plus 125, two wins, two wins behind the Steelers or two losses behind.
35:02 Speaker 01 They have the game at home, right? When they match up again, they play home. Yeah.
35:06 Bill Simmons? You mentioned the Bengals. Is that the most disappointing team for you now?
35:09 Speaker 01 I think so.
35:11 Bill Simmons? Their over under was 10 and a half wins and they're four and four and eight.
35:16 Speaker 01 Yes. I mean, the Niners aren't going to get to their over on their my team, of course. Personally, I'm most disappointed in my team, I guess. But yeah, the fact that the Bengals and Ravens had 13 combined losses and the calendar just turned to December. Um, it's rough, man. It's rough. I don't know. The Lou Anaruma, everybody loved him, but I don't know if he's scheming the wrong way. But as much as we like Russ, you can't give up 414 to that guy. You can't.
35:45 Bill Simmons? Last three, last three games, they gave up 389 yards, 435, 510 today.
35:51 Speaker 01 Jesus.
35:51 Bill Simmons? They've given up 35, 34, 44. Last three games. And, uh, and they give up big plays. I think Wilson had nine 10 plus yard passes. Yeah. Which is, they, it just felt like they were moving the ball downfield, but, uh, I don't know. The Borough thing's strange because he's, you know, he's one of the five or six best QBs by any calculation. He seems like if you were gonna just draft QBs to try to win a Super Bowl, he'd be one of the first ones that went. And usually when that happens, the team is at least, he pulls the team to nine wins, 10 wins, no matter who's on the team. This is about as bad as you could do with a quarterback like that.
36:35 Speaker 01 Yeah. How about six and six? I mean, just from a betting perspective, like if you back this team, you just get used to the idea that you're almost definitely going to have the better quarterback. And they're going to lose because the defense is so bad.
36:48 Bill Simmons? Well, I said that when I came on the, my picks today, when I went on Ringer Sunday pregame.
36:53 Speaker 01 Yeah.
36:53 Bill Simmons? I really feel like this Thanksgiving week is the week that teams have been trying to tell us who they are. And we're choosing just not to believe them, right? The Niners were like that. The Bengals were like that. The Falcons were definitely like that for me, but there's just, you hit this point. It's like he, there's no, oh, maybe this would be the week. Like we have three, a three month track record of behavior at this point.
37:17 Speaker 01 Right.
37:17 Bill Simmons? You know, pretty, the Saints were a team that I thought. And we talked about it, but it really feels like as soon as Taysom Hill is hurt, injured, whatever, that team just completely falls. Maybe he shouldn't have bet an MVP candidate. They hung around that Rams game. They were winning and even near the end, but that was the only, I was trying to figure out, could there be like a four and eight, three and six, three and seven type team, but all of them got wiped out this week. The Saints, Miami, the Bengals.
37:46 Bill Simmons? I guess maybe Indianapolis would be the only one that a team with a losing record that's still hanging around, but that's it. Anybody else?
37:53 Speaker 01 I'm with you. No, I'm trying to think Tampa Bay.
37:55 Bill Simmons? The Bears were another one. They're like, oh, maybe the, no.
37:58 Speaker 01 Yeah, everyone else is like six or six and it makes sense that they are. I mean, I guess San Francisco, oh, they were five. What were they? Five and six? Or are they five and six now? Yeah. I don't know. No, I think you're right. Nobody's coming from the depths. But New Orleans, New Orleans, I feel like with the coach, you have to, you have to see what the Clogger did in the office, what he did earlier. Like you don't have to see a picture, but I want, you know, I want to know before I bet on the Saints, what he, what he, what kind of damage?
38:26 Bill Simmons? Maybe he should tweet that out. Yeah.
38:27 Speaker 01 He should.
38:28 Bill Simmons? Maybe he should eat Mexican food the night before or something.
38:32 Speaker 01 The player was walking into the stadium like Cam Newton. No, he's dialed in. He's got the fedora and the multicolored ascot. It's the same thing for the Clogger.
38:42 Bill Simmons? So, Michael Penix was trending on Twitter today. Speaking of seeing things trending on Twitter and kind of being able to guess what the result was. Kirk Cousins, zero TDs, four picks, including a pick six. He was one away from the full delone. He is now our interception leader at 13. I think your Darnold bets in jeopardy. And he can't move. And they're six and six and it feels like they should be two and 10 or three and nine.
39:12 Bill Simmons? Here's my question. Do you, so they signed Cousins on March 11th and the draft was like six weeks later.
39:22 Bill Simmons? Do you think they saw something in that six weeks that made them think they had to draft a QB?
39:28 Speaker 01 What did they say?
39:29 Bill Simmons? I don't know.
39:29 Speaker 01 They're just.
39:30 Bill Simmons? They spent all that money on Cousins and then.
39:31 Speaker 01 Yeah.
39:34 Bill Simmons? They got some sort of word between March 11th and near the end of the year at the draft that. Eh.
39:43 Bill Simmons? I know you paid for this guy, but did you know blank or, or they're working out with him or? I don't know. Cause now I feel like Penix, if you put Penix on the team that we've been watching the last couple of weeks and he's moving around like. I actually think they'd have a better chance to win.
39:58 Speaker 01 Well, I'll tell you what they may have seen and it's a good point because. At that point in March, they're really just throwing the ball around and stuff if they're even doing that. But out of all the terrible quarterback metrics you just read, the one that you didn't was one that was like, kind of just invented the next.
40:15 Bill Simmons? That miles per hour one?
40:16 Speaker 01 The miles per hour, Kirk Cousins must be like, what the fuck? There's another thing now they could, he did not throw over 36 miles an hour. The minimum 20 attempts, no one's ever done that in a fricking dome. Like no one's ever done that before.
40:31 Bill Simmons? Yeah. I was trying to think 36 miles an hour.
40:36 Bill Simmons? Like nobody could throw, you couldn't throw a baseball pitch 36 miles an hour. It's like basically impossible.
40:40 Speaker 01 No, it'd be hard.
40:41 Bill Simmons? Almost two.
40:42 Speaker 01 Yeah.
40:42 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
40:44 Bill Simmons? If I'm going 36 miles an hour. On a 35 mile an hour street, I'm probably getting tailgated.
40:51 Speaker 01 Right. If you're going. For going slow. Yeah.
40:55 Bill Simmons? If I'm going 35 on the highway, I'm getting pulled over.
40:58 Speaker 01 Yeah.
40:59 Bill Simmons? Not one, not one time did he unleash it. So he's clearly not healthy and he's been terrible for three straight games. He has then a touchdown in three games, touchdown pass. He's been sacked like seven times. He's six picks.
41:12 Speaker 01 It's the easiest pick six in the league if you're throwing 30 miles an hour. I mean, the charge is at 100, 187 yards.
41:19 Bill Simmons? Yeah. That with, with the three guys where he kind of like, he lobbed it up like he was trying to. Throw something on top of a Christmas tree and like it was, it became a contest for who's going to intercept that. He was so bad in that game like that. Honestly, they, they had no business losing that game and he's single handedly lost the game. That was my takeaway from that game. They had no business winning.
41:39 Speaker 01 The Chargers had 187 total yards on offense and I commented that Cousins is throwing the ball like he's having a soft toss catch with his seven year old on Turkey Day, like a Turkey Day game in the backyard.
41:51 Bill Simmons? Like he's coming back from rotator cuff surgery.
41:53 Speaker 01 Right.
41:54 Bill Simmons? Chargers had 10 touchdowns, I'm sorry, 10 first downs, 10 touchdowns have been a lot. 10 first downs, 187 yards total, but McConkey had 117 yards receiving. So, go figure that. Number 29, I didn't have sound for that game. I had that on the TV on the bottom left in my house. I don't know who number 29 is, but he picked off, he was all over the place. Who was number 29?
42:20 Speaker 01 It's just some fan with a jersey.
42:22 Bill Simmons? Yeah. Just threw him a jersey.
42:23 Speaker 01 Yeah.
42:24 Bill Simmons? But yeah, Atlanta had the ball for 36 minutes and somehow didn't win. I think they should start Penix next week. And I'm not, to me, that's not even overreaction. It's like they're six and six. They still, because they beat Tampa twice, they still have the division and their destiny. And there's no way you can think Cousins is going to turn this around at this point. Why not play Penix?
42:44 Speaker 01 I'm trying to think of who they play.
42:45 Bill Simmons? You gotta suck it up. It's to me, it's like the Russell Wilson thing.
42:48 Speaker 01 Oh no, oh, hold on. They're at Minnesota. This is old team.
42:51 Bill Simmons? That makes it worse.
42:53 Speaker 01 I know. That's why we have to see it. We have to see it.
42:59 Bill Simmons? Next question. Will you ever trust an old starting QB coming off a torn Achilles ever again after this season with Cousins and and Rogers?
43:07 Speaker 01 Yes.
43:08 Bill Simmons? Can we now never trust that again now?
43:11 Speaker 01 Uh, I'm trying to think if there's an age, right?
43:15 Bill Simmons? How about 35 and up?
43:17 Speaker 01 Yeah.
43:17 Bill Simmons? Sounds good.
43:18 Speaker 01 Yeah. 35 and up is good. I'm out. I'm out on it for sure.
43:22 Bill Simmons? You know what I was thinking about? Remember Rogers, when he tore his Achilles in week one last year and then there was that stuff about how he might be able to come back?
43:30 Speaker 01 That year, yeah, last year.
43:31 Bill Simmons? Yeah. And we were making fun of it on the pod and I was like, I was trying, trying to think of some crazy thing to do if he actually came back because it was so ridiculous. He still hasn't been able to come back. It's 15 months later, it still sucks. He can't move.
43:46 Speaker 01 He should have come back last year.
43:48 Bill Simmons? Yeah. Just come back last year. He would have been just as good. He, uh, has not had a three, we're almost at the three year anniversary of his last 300 yard game.
43:57 Speaker 01 I love it. I love it.
43:59 Bill Simmons? Week from, uh, week from Friday. Hasn't won a playoff game in four years. Turns 41 tomorrow.
44:04 Speaker 01 Can I do a couple here from Ben Fokes?
44:06 Bill Simmons? Yeah, please.
44:07 Speaker 01 The Jets are the first team to be favored to nine in the first 12 and end up three and nine or worse.
44:11 Bill Simmons? Wow.
44:13 Speaker 01 Rogers has had a chance to tie or take the lead five times in the fourth quarter, 0 for 5. I want them to resign. I know we all had Seattle, so this wouldn't have been the game to do it. I kind of want the Jets to have a little bit of a one, two game resurgence, just so they sign him again. So they. I want to say this again.
44:31 Bill Simmons? So they're three and nine against the spread?
44:34 Speaker 01 Three and nine on the year, right?
44:37 Bill Simmons? Are they three and nine against the spread too, or like two and 10?
44:39 Speaker 01 I don't know. Uh, yeah.
44:41 Bill Simmons? They covered those Thursdays. They've only won one game on a Sunday.
44:45 Speaker 01 Right.
44:45 Bill Simmons? So the three and nine against the spread, JJ's taken them all nine times?
44:51 Speaker 01 Bro.
44:52 Bill Simmons? Hey, bro, enough, enough. You made your jokes earlier on. That's enough.
44:59 Bill Simmons? Jets today, 12 penalties and a pick six.
45:02 Speaker 01 Yeah.
45:03 Bill Simmons? And the pick six was especially great because for people who didn't see the game, Rogers had Wilson wide open on the play before in the end zone and missed him. And then threw the pick six on the next play. And probably should have been pulled at that point if they're actually trying to win the game, but they're so scared of him for whatever reason. But, uh, Seattle, they win a game, Seattle wins a game where in the first half, they gave up a, a kick touchdown. They fumbled on a kickoff twice. They missed the PAT and their punter was so hurt that they just kept cutting to him. And he just kept doing that thing where he just had his hand on his back and it's like this. And the announcer's like, well, that doesn't seem good. It's like, yeah, it definitely doesn't.
45:45 Bill Simmons? This guy's supposed to be the punter. Definitely not good that he's like me playing pickup at age 55. And Seattle wins anyway. It was a ridiculous win. Their fans are like kind of miserable, even though they won because it was such a bad game for them.
46:00 Speaker 01 Right.
46:00 Bill Simmons? And the Jets were just somehow worse. And that was the legacy of that game.
46:04 Speaker 01 Why are they, I'm trying to think of why, I know people hate whatever it's with me with the Roger stuff, but why would he even?
46:11 Bill Simmons? Who hates it? I love it.
46:12 Speaker 01 He's on McAfee every week. And what's the point of even asking him about what he thinks about the future? What, what's your future going to be like? Like, I don't, what, this is, what, what kind of old actor? It's like you having an old actor on every week and make like, who, who, who's not been in movies for like 25 years?
46:29 Bill Simmons? I feel like whoever you say it's gonna be probably super insulted.
46:33 Speaker 01 Is Sean Connery still alive?
46:35 Bill Simmons? I don't know. That's good. Sean Connery, let's use him because he's dead.
46:37 Speaker 01 Sean Connery, you have him on and you're like, hey.
46:39 Bill Simmons? How about Alec Baldwin? We could use him. That's a good one.
46:41 Speaker 01 Yeah, Alec, would you do, would you do Gladiator 3? Like, and he's like, well, you know, it's really up to the directors and the studio and stuff like that. I was like, yeah, no shit. Yeah, yeah, it's not your call because you're not, you don't have it anymore.
46:54 Bill Simmons? I think his only chance, Belichick loves him. And I think his only chance is if like, Belichick got the Vegas job and it was like, Belichick and Aaron Rodgers went to Vegas for a year, some, some team like that. Where they didn't have a quarterback and Belichick just liked them and then they would turn on each other in like eight weeks.
47:12 Speaker 01 Yeah.
47:12 Bill Simmons? That's how that would play.
47:13 Speaker 01 That'd be fun. All right. I'd root for that.
47:15 Bill Simmons? He's done though. It happens. We've watched.
47:18 Speaker 01 Sure.
47:19 Bill Simmons? You and I are old enough now that we've seen a lot of quarterbacks. Hit the end. And I'll never forget, one of my first ones to break my cherry with this was Dan Marino. Who I was terrified of.
47:32 Speaker 01 Yeah.
47:33 Bill Simmons? For the entire eighties and for the first part of the nineties. And then by the time we got to the late nineties. And he had had like a torn Achilles and, you know, his arm was fucked up and he just wasn't good anymore. And I remember betting against him. And be like, holy shit, I'm betting against Dan Marino. Like this is like fucking touching the third rail in the subway. Like you're not supposed to, you're just doing it and winning and being like, oh my God. I won a bet against Dan Marino, but this is what happens to old quarterbacks.
48:01 Speaker 01 Dan Marino and Jimmy Johnson was the pair, right? Like when, when Jimmy Johnson was coaching. Yeah, it was, it was scary. But yeah, this happens with pitchers too. I mean, I don't want to make excuses, but Rodgers is just, now he's just looking out for a way to get out gracefully, right? So.
48:15 Bill Simmons? I, yeah, it's fake injury time. It's fake injury time. But I was thinking if they did win this game. How annoying the Tuesday interview would have been where it's like, ah, you know? We were just out there having fun. You know, football's fun and what we were doing out there, you know, you got all this. All this tension, all this pressure and we just went out there and we played like we were when we were kids.
48:37 Speaker 01 He might still say that.
48:38 Bill Simmons? It was like, yeah, that happened, but also Seattle made 45 mistakes, special teams. That was also super fun. Kudo, I gotta, I gotta shout out Sean Fantasy. Who tweeted on September 9th, 2024. So I have this on the record. I think this Jets season will be an epic disappointment. Everyone will be fired at its conclusion and Aaron Rodgers will retire.
49:04 Speaker 01 Wow.
49:04 Bill Simmons? September 9th, pretty good.
49:06 Speaker 01 Fantasy.
49:07 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
49:07 Speaker 01 Good job by him.
49:08 Bill Simmons? He was adamant. I gotta say, the whole summer, he was adamant that this was gonna end badly. All right, we're gonna take one more break for the pod.
49:18 Bill Simmons? This episode is brought to you by Expedia. You know how at the end of the season, your team goes to Cancun? Sometimes earlier than expected? Sometimes after blowing a 3-1 series lead? But what if you went to Cancun? With Expedia, save up to 30% when you bundle and save. You can book the flight or the hotel now, then book the rest later. In all fairness, though, hopefully, your team doesn't go to Cancun. 1-2-3 Cancun. Or if they do, you go with them. Expedia, the one place you go to go places. Sign in to save, savings vary. This episode is brought to you by ServiceNow. Look, I already have my dream job. I run the ringer, argue with Chris Ryan, AKA CR. But even dream jobs have not so dreamy parts. You know, the work that slows you down never seems to go away. That's where ServiceNow's AI specialists come in.
50:03 Bill Simmons? They're like digital teammates who actually do the job, start to finish. No handoffs, no homework. That means more time for the work that actually matters, which for me, is talking about whether the 86 Celtics can beat the 96 Bulls, which they could. To learn how to put AI to work for people, visit servicenow.com. So Eberflus got fired after that Thursday game.
50:26 Speaker 01 Why?
50:26 Bill Simmons? And the reason I bring this up off the Jets. Who's the worst coach now? Cause I said that Eberflus was my favorite bad coach.
50:34 Speaker 01 Oh, yeah.
50:35 Bill Simmons? I really, I really enjoyed him. I really enjoyed the Thursday game, knowing that they'd probably fuck up that last minute, which they did, and watching things you don't get to normally see. Who's the guy now? Cause I haven't narrowed down. Antonio Pierce, coach middle seat.
50:49 Speaker 01 Middle seat's gotta be in there, yeah.
50:51 Bill Simmons? Or the Jets guy, who's pretty terrible. He's been one of the worst interim coaches we've had. The team's definitely worse. Like, there's no way they'd be this bad with Salah.
51:01 Speaker 01 Yeah, we can't count. I don't know if we can count it. Can you count him?
51:04 Bill Simmons? Can't count him?
51:05 Speaker 01 Yeah, they have to have the job more than four weeks, five weeks or so.
51:08 Bill Simmons? Okay, well, he's bad.
51:10 Speaker 01 Yeah.
51:12 Bill Simmons? Did you put anyone else in there?
51:13 Speaker 01 Can't even say Sirianni anymore.
51:16 Bill Simmons? I mean, Mayo's, Mayo's pretty close. You got to see him firsthand today against the Colts.
51:21 Speaker 01 My guy's not lighting the world on fire.
51:23 Bill Simmons? Your guy's coming back.
51:24 Speaker 01 For sure. Is my guy, I don't know, where do you put him ahead of Miami?
51:30 Speaker 01 That's getting close too.
51:31 Bill Simmons? McDaniel?
51:32 Speaker 01 Yeah.
51:35 Bill Simmons? At least, yeah, yeah, maybe.
51:38 Speaker 01 I know we want to blame Tua and it's fun to blame Tua and, but he's got to try to figure out a way to win some of these games. He's got talent on that roster.
51:48 Bill Simmons? The disc Jackie?
51:49 Speaker 01 Yeah.
51:51 Bill Simmons? I would have said Pierce before this week, but I actually thought the Raiders played pretty well against the Chiefs. And at least they're smart enough to realize that Brock Bowers is like this generational tight end.
52:00 Speaker 01 Yeah.
52:00 Bill Simmons? It's like, we should throw him the ball every time. It's like Kelsey crossed with Gronk. Yeah. So Coach Middlesey is probably still the worst.
52:08 Speaker 01 Yeah, although I found myself feeling bad for him with that late hit, which was insane on, it shouldn't be.
52:15 Bill Simmons? I'm glad you brought that up. That was worst quarterback hit since when?
52:21 Speaker 01 Um, Theismann?
52:24 Bill Simmons? No.
52:25 Speaker 01 I don't know, man. No, there's been some.
52:27 Bill Simmons? There was a really bad Trent Green one a while ago. I remember.
52:29 Speaker 01 Right, right, right.
52:30 Bill Simmons? There was a bad Flacco one.
52:32 Speaker 01 Yeah.
52:33 Bill Simmons? What do we mean bad?
52:34 Speaker 01 Like, like dirty or like, cause Tua got rocked.
52:38 Bill Simmons? Dirty crossed with, oh my God, is he still alive?
52:40 Speaker 01 Yeah.
52:40 Bill Simmons? Cause that was the first like, oh my God.
52:43 Speaker 01 Right. But the penalties offset, you understand?
52:46 Bill Simmons? Yeah. They got to figure that out. I've always made this joke when Warren Smith, Warren Sapp, horse collar, Jerry Rice and not, and like blew out every knee leg of it. And it's just, that should have just been a hundred yard penalty. You just get, you get a touchdown.
53:00 Speaker 01 Yeah. Well, people say that guy can't play until Lawrence plays again, but, but to hit the guy that retaliates just shoves the player over like.
53:09 Bill Simmons? Should be less.
53:09 Speaker 01 What is, what is he supposed to do? Either he's a pussy for not defending his quarterback or he suffers the same punishment as the headhunter. It's like if you shot my dog and then I slapped you in the face and we both shared a jail cell.
53:21 Bill Simmons? It's offsetting.
53:22 Speaker 01 Yeah, that makes sense.
53:24 Bill Simmons? I would never shoot your dog.
53:25 Speaker 01 Thank you.
53:26 Bill Simmons? You know what it did lead to, other than a really scary?
53:30 Bill Simmons? Scary moment, a great brawl, a rare like we are immediately fighting NFL moment where it was just like it was, it really felt like that was gonna keep going and going. It led to one of my favorite sentences in NFL discourse.
53:43 Speaker 01 No love lost?
53:45 Bill Simmons? There's no place in the game for that, so.
53:46 Speaker 01 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
53:51 Bill Simmons? There's no place, no place in the game for that. Where are the places for that? Just, do we have places? Can I go on Google Earth or where, where can I just hit a guy when he's not looking and knock him out in my forearm? Are there places?
54:04 Speaker 01 The octagon, I guess, but not with pads. Pads and a helmet would be weird. I don't even think there's a place. There's no place. It happens every three weeks in the NFL, but there's no place for it. Yeah.
54:14 Bill Simmons? It's not what we teach here. No place for that. You hate, that's a cousin and you hate to see that. Hate to see that. Hate to see that. Let's go to break. So Jacksonville is two and 10. So is Vegas and so are the Giants.
54:30 Bill Simmons? You know, college football way more than me. Is there a franchise quarterback that you feel like could be on that at least Borough Drake May level?
54:36 Speaker 01 I don't love him this year. I really don't. I mean, it's fun to say you have Shador Sanders, but I don't really think, I think this is not the year to go two and 15.
54:49 Bill Simmons? Who would you take, Hunter?
54:51 Speaker 01 Yeah, but I think they're gonna have to make a decision on him if he's a defensive or offensive player. I don't, I think whoever drafts him is not gonna have it in mind that he's playing both ways. Right?
55:01 Bill Simmons? If I'm him, I'd want to go to which position, if I was one of the best in the league at, where do I make more money? And I think the answer is receiver, right?
55:09 Speaker 01 Sure.
55:10 Bill Simmons? If you're a good receiver, you're making 30 to 35 million a year. And he could also just play defense. He could be, you know, the nickel back on third downs if they wanted to use him that way.
55:20 Speaker 01 Can I say this? He's excellent. And believe me, I go nuts when Otani's, people like, oh, he's not MVP. I'm like, when he's pitching, when he's playing both ways, are you kidding me? There's nothing to compare it to. For sure, Hunter should be the Heisman winner, but I've never seen a coach try to win an award for a player more than Deion Sanders is. Like they're throwing to him on fourth and 31 when they're up 21 points.
55:42 Bill Simmons? Just a pad stats.
55:43 Speaker 01 Oh, yeah. It's crazy. And he's gonna get it done.
55:47 Bill Simmons? Like LeBron going 29 and 16 in Utah tonight?
55:50 Speaker 01 Something like that, yeah.
55:51 Bill Simmons? Utah's like, we just want to get Cooper flag, like back yourself out, buddy.
55:55 Speaker 01 Yeah.
55:57 Bill Simmons? Next question, could Bryce Young win comeback player of the year just from what he came back from in the same season?
56:02 Speaker 01 Oh, well, again, we'd have to get the stipulations. It wasn't an injury?
56:07 Bill Simmons? Yeah, well, I suggest a new award and maybe Russell Wilson could have qualified for this too. The Austin Powers, I found my mojo award. And the nominees would basically be Russell Wilson and Bryce Young, right? Maybe Baker Mayfield?
56:22 Speaker 01 Yeah.
56:22 Bill Simmons? Although he was good last year. Bryce Young looked like he was being bullied in school and he lost his dog and his parents got divorced in like week five. Even they cut him, he just looked so sad, like your heart broke for him. It's like, oh, man. This guy's like a bust. And now today, he was really good in that Tampa game. You know, it's not like he has a shitload to work with. And I thought his demeanor was all, it was the guy from Alabama. Walking around with his chest out, making plays, creating stuff out. I'm glad that he's not a bust because we need more quarterbacks.
57:01 Speaker 01 I'm with you. I'm torn and I think you are too, if you will be honest, because it's nice to have a team to bet against every week safely, you know? But yeah, I want him to be good, right? But the, the bad teams always figure out an effed up way to lose, don't they?
57:16 Bill Simmons? Well, that today was one of the worst, one of the worst, how did you lose that game losses? They basically, if Hubbard doesn't fumble, they probably win.
57:23 Speaker 01 Tampa handed it to them by getting that field goal and then they came down, but I really, they, they're like, all right, you're not giving me much Tampa, but we're still gonna. It's like when your mom comes over, right? And she, like, all you have in the cupboard is like goldfish crackers and Nutella and she somehow whips up a veal parmesan.
57:41 Bill Simmons? Yes.
57:41 Speaker 01 Like, wait, how'd you do that? It's like the bad team.
57:43 Bill Simmons? That sounds delicious.
57:44 Speaker 01 Yeah, it's pretty good.
57:45 Bill Simmons? Your mom do that?
57:47 Speaker 01 What it's what more fluff than Nutella, but yeah, she does.
57:51 Bill Simmons? I'll tell you this where Carolina reached. I looked at Tampa all week. I thought about putting them in parlays and teases or just doing Carolina straight up first half game. I mean, I'm sorry, Tampa first half game.
58:05 Bill Simmons? Stayed away.
58:07 Speaker 01 All right.
58:07 Bill Simmons? Cause I was like, Carolina's been good for four straight weeks here and I, they make me nervous. I'm not going against them and rightfully so, they were good again.
58:17 Speaker 01 We crapped on Atlanta for good reason, but that is really tight now. Minus 145 Tampa plus 120 for that division.
58:26 Bill Simmons? You know what else is really tight? You almost won the South Steelers special again.
58:30 Speaker 01 Ah, man. Bengals just need to take care of business.
58:34 Bill Simmons? They had to put up 20 points in the second quarter. It looked like you were going to get a 21 to, uh, 21 to 20 type situation. Yeah, something in there and then take it in the second half and that didn't work.
58:47 Speaker 01 Next week, it's always going to happen eventually.
58:50 Bill Simmons? Well, do you want to do this NFC South? Do you even want to waste time on this?
58:56 Speaker 01 I feel good about Tampa. I know that they'll probably blow it, but, uh, but I, well, you're going to look at Atlanta's schedule and tell me it's easy, right?
59:06 Speaker 01 Giants.
59:06 Bill Simmons? Tampa's four and two on the road and their two losses were fourth quarter losses to KC and Atlanta. And the Atlanta game they should have won. They, uh, I just like the way they're playing way more. And if you like, you have that Tampa bet, which I backed out of five to one. They have to beat Atlanta by a game to win the division.
59:27 Speaker 01 Right. Cause they lost both.
59:28 Bill Simmons? Your fear would be Penix starting this week.
59:31 Speaker 01 Yeah, I think so.
59:32 Bill Simmons? If you got the news like Michael Penix will start this week, you'd be like, fuck.
59:36 Speaker 01 Right.
59:38 Speaker 01 Tampa's good. They beat Detroit and they beat Philly. They're not going to make the playoffs in that garbage division?
59:45 Bill Simmons? Tampa's got Vegas at home, Chargers, Dallas on the road, Carolina at home, New Orleans at home.
59:52 Bill Simmons? Feels like they could get to nine or 10 wins.
59:56 Speaker 01 Yeah, three or four.
59:57 Bill Simmons? Atlanta's at Minnesota, at Vegas, home Giants, at Washington, home Carolina. The question for me is,
1:00:05 Speaker 01 Minnesota game. Yep.
1:00:06 Bill Simmons? Could we get eight, nine, like an eight, nine tie for that division? Is that in play?
1:00:11 Speaker 01 Yeah, sure. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, uh, what? No one's going to go four and one the rest of the way. I'll take or four and oh.
1:00:19 Bill Simmons? But somehow the,
1:00:20 Speaker 01 that'll be the first time a division has ever been won three years in a row with a losing record ever.
1:00:28 Bill Simmons? Relegation. Maybe we gotta start thinking about it.
1:00:30 Speaker 01 Right.
1:00:31 Bill Simmons? And yet somehow the NFC West is weirder and more annoying.
1:00:35 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:00:36 Bill Simmons? Arizona just completely choked the Minnesota and I can't believe we didn't talk about that yet. I had them. They still covered. I didn't expect to sweat it out when it was 19 to six.
1:00:47 Bill Simmons? They had the ball for 36 minutes. They had 406 yards. They had 25 first downs. Minnesota's 1-8 on third down.
1:00:58 Bill Simmons? Sam Darnold had to orchestrate two touchdown drives. To not even win the game because they asked to need a field goal. Arizona, 10 penalties for 96 yards. That was one reason they lost. The other reason. And you and I vacillate on when teams should do this or not, but watching in the moment, fourth and four. Arizona's up three. It's like three and a half minutes left, whatever it is. They're inside the 10.
1:01:21 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:01:22 Bill Simmons? And they kicked the field goal to go up six and it felt like the wrong move because Minnesota had been going up and down the field on them. And I, and watching it, hoping Arizona was gonna at least. Lose by three and still cover my bet. I just wanted them to go for it because I felt like they could have closed the game out because I liked the way they were moving the ball. Um, the nerd stats actually supported. Going for it on fourth and four. It was like 88% you win the game. If you do it, 80% kick the field goal. So they kicked the field goal. They go up six. There's been other times where I'm like, just take the points, go up six. They're not going to come down and beat you. But you were watching. Did you feel like Minnesota was going to come down and score on them? Cause I did.
1:02:02 Speaker 01 Yeah, I thought it'd be close. They're gonna get to like the 30 or something, then it's gonna be luck, but I almost think you ask the defense. In that situation, right? Like, hey, how tired are you guys? Cause I know you've been at it for almost three hours. Are you gonna let Sam Darnold go up and down the field here?
1:02:18 Bill Simmons? Yeah. It's Sam Darnold. You guys realize it's Sam Darnold, right?
1:02:21 Speaker 01 Right. Yeah. So I don't know. Is Minnesota the most boring, good team out there? I, I should have been glued to that Arizona Minnesota game. They had 75 yards at half Minnesota. I'm like, oh, they're probably gonna win.
1:02:34 Bill Simmons? It's really unimpressive. I can't wait to bet against them in the playoffs.
1:02:37 Speaker 01 Yep.
1:02:37 Bill Simmons? So Arizona loses two incredibly winnable games in a row against good teams. Seattle last week, Minnesota this week, they're in a tie. The Rams had their fourth, I think their season is dead moment of the season where they're down in that in the they're down in the Saints game and it's just like, oh, of course, this is a five and 12 team. Why were we fooling ourselves? And then they pull that out.
1:03:04 Speaker 01 Do you ever feel like we will a team to, we inspire a team through our texts? Because we were on the ring of pregame texts about how bad Stafford is and each one of us is sending one stat worse than the other for Stafford for third down conversions and how many this and that. And then just like that, their offense came alive for like two drives and it was enough.
1:03:23 Bill Simmons? It doesn't seem like they can block even remotely where they were last year.
1:03:28 Speaker 01 That's a problem.
1:03:29 Bill Simmons? That's one problem. But I don't know. I looked at all the schedules. I San Francisco's at Chicago, home Rams, at Miami, home Detroit, at Arizona, and those Detroit games in week 17, week 18, there's a chance they weren't Lions, weren't going to have anything to play for. But now we know they will.
1:03:49 Speaker 01 I think it's the only division that comes to week 18. Oh, the Niners are a cross.
1:03:54 Bill Simmons? I think Niners are a cross.
1:03:55 Speaker 01 Yeah. Yeah. I kind of, I agree.
1:03:57 Bill Simmons? I don't see it.
1:03:58 Speaker 01 I think this is the only division that comes down to the final week. But in fact, this is, we have the rematch at Seattle and Arizona from two weeks ago. So that's as important as any other game, I think.
1:04:08 Bill Simmons? Seattle's plus 145, Arizona's plus 180, Rams plus 290 and Niners 14 to one now. So Fanduel agrees with us.
1:04:18 Speaker 01 Yep.
1:04:21 Bill Simmons? At
1:04:24 Bill Simmons? at gunpoint, I kind of like, I kind of like Arizona's last five the most for opponents.
1:04:29 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:04:31 Bill Simmons? Home, they're at Seattle.
1:04:34 Bill Simmons? Home Pats, at Carolina, at the Rams, home San Francisco, who might have packed it in by that point.
1:04:43 Speaker 01 Mm hmm.
1:04:44 Bill Simmons? Feels like at least three more wins, but it's probably nine and eight, right? I don't think anyone gets to 10.
1:04:49 Speaker 01 It's not bad.
1:04:50 Bill Simmons? Have seven? Oh yeah, Seattle's seven and five.
1:04:53 Speaker 01 Seattle's got seven, so, but that's the game, right? They play this week, so that, I don't know if Arizona, you might as well just bet them this week, I think, if you're gonna take them to win the division. And then if they need a game in like three, three weeks or so, but.
1:05:08 Bill Simmons? Oh, that game's in Arizona, I fucked up. Arizona's got Seattle home, New England home next to.
1:05:13 Speaker 01 Listen, it pays to come and last every year. Eventually it pays off.
1:05:16 Bill Simmons? Right.
1:05:16 Speaker 01 You got a schedule like this, where the last month is cake.
1:05:19 Bill Simmons? Well, Seattle has Arizona, at Arizona, home Green Bay, home Minnesota, at Chicago, at the Rams. I don't know whether Seattle's roping me in and I'm gonna regret it, but I, I do think they can move the ball when they need to. Like if they really need to go 75 yards, I think they can do it. And I wouldn't say that about a lot of teams, but it's just really painful to watch them get to that point.
1:05:42 Speaker 01 Their offense is different, it seems, every week, right? It should be that Metcalf is around 100 yards and Kenneth Walker is either gonna get two touchdowns or three, you know, but it's, it's, oh no, Charbonne, oh what? He can't, oh, the tight end's involved, but Metcalf's not open? It's very strange, the way they do it.
1:05:59 Bill Simmons? Well, they definitely can't block.
1:06:01 Speaker 01 No.
1:06:02 Bill Simmons? Or whatever games, Texans, Jags, Washington, Tennessee, and then Pats, Indy, which, I had no idea how the Pats didn't score 30 points.
1:06:13 Speaker 01 Right.
1:06:14 Bill Simmons? Did you see the clip of the two-point conversion that the Pats were blindsided by Richardson QB draws in big moments? And no idea that the Colts might try that. Like, how would there be any evidence they would do that in the biggest play of the game? But Barmer got tackled by the guard and pulled backwards. Richardson went right over him. There's a great end zone angle of like, just the most obvious holding call of all time and, and they didn't, didn't call it.
1:06:38 Speaker 01 The fall starts must drive you nuts because that was not even close to being a thing under, under Belichick regime, right? You just never saw it. You'd see one every three weeks.
1:06:49 Bill Simmons? I was watching, I was watching the Bosco versus. What was the championship game?
1:06:55 Speaker 01 Oh, the uh, matter day?
1:06:58 Bill Simmons? Yeah. And even in high school at that level, there's not false starts and holding every, every five plays. And somehow the Patriots are a professional team. Like they were saying, my dad was complaining after, my dad was upset that they lost. And he was saying the Colts have this offensive line where like four guys are new and like backups. So they've had a whole bunch of injuries. It's like the Colts, nobody jumped off the whole game for them, it didn't feel like.
1:07:23 Speaker 01 And yeah.
1:07:24 Bill Simmons? The Pats just holding left and right, but it's a shame.
1:07:26 Speaker 01 The Pats would kill Bosco. I mean, they'd win by at least 10, I think. They play Bosco.
1:07:31 Bill Simmons? I swear the Pats could have four more wins. Like they could totally be in this Denver. If they were actually well coached, I, I really feel like they could be in the seventh seed, but maybe it's working out for the, uh, for the best. All right. It's time to guess the lines. It's brought to you by Workday. Get the whole band together with Workday, pair finance and HR on one platform for an epic performance. With Workday AI at the core, you'll make confident decisions faster than ever and you'll drive flawless business and finance operations with an agile platform that constantly evolves to future-proof your organization. Be a finance and HR rock star with Workday. Visit workday.com to learn more. What are the records?
1:08:13 Speaker 01 Seven, five and one. You have the lead.
1:08:15 Bill Simmons? You're kind of lingering this year.
1:08:17 Speaker 01 Yeah, I'm not going. I think I did all right today. We'll see. We'll see.
1:08:21 Bill Simmons? Obviously you cheated.
1:08:23 Speaker 01 You steal, you steal these by half a point every time.
1:08:26 Bill Simmons? Well, this is an interesting week because it's week 14. It's the last fantasy week for any normal fantasy league, I would think. And we have all of these crazy buys.
1:08:37 Speaker 01 Yeah, didn't they used to get rid of the buys by Thanksgiving? Or am I?
1:08:41 Bill Simmons? This feels late, but I think they had to do it because of this Christmas game. I think they wanted those teams fresh because it's Baltimore, Houston. I guess Pittsburgh's not one of them. Baltimore, Denver, Houston, Indianapolis, New England, Washington. I mentioned that because there's some big starting QBs in that. Couple of good running backs, couple of good receivers and it's like weird fantasy implications to lose that many teams. Anyway, Thursday night is an awesome game.
1:09:09 Speaker 01 Really good.
1:09:10 Bill Simmons? Lions Packers, it's in Detroit. And I meant to talk about this earlier, but I guess we can talk about it now. I really do feel like it's sitting there for the Packers now with all of these injuries the Lions have had on defense. You could feel it in the second half of that Bears game. Like they're just, we always talk about passing the point of no return. And it feels like that Dallas defense is right on the edge of maybe too many injuries.
1:09:34 Speaker 01 Dallas, oh Detroit.
1:09:36 Bill Simmons? Detroit.
1:09:37 Speaker 01 Yeah, Dallas defense too. Yeah.
1:09:39 Bill Simmons? Dallas definitely. I think they passed the point, but if I'm the Packers, I'm feeling really good.
1:09:44 Speaker 01 Yeah. Yeah, I actually think Eberflus gave it to that. Like I think he was like, it was a sympathetic move. He was like, this will destroy too many money line parlays before the first helping of cranberry stuffing.
1:09:56 Bill Simmons? He's trying to heal America.
1:09:56 Speaker 01 Exactly. I can't, I can't do it.
1:09:59 Bill Simmons? You know what? Surlyness at the tables.
1:10:00 Speaker 01 We're not calling a timeout.
1:10:02 Bill Simmons? I'm gonna take this timeout right in the locker room.
1:10:05 Speaker 01 You're right though. I mean, they get your Alexander Romeo Dobbs back, right? Like Jordan Love was left for dead in Brazil. Like they were gonna dump his body in the rainforest in the Amazon. But Tucker Kraft, all of a sudden, like a top option to tight end. Jacobs forced like 15 missed tackles the other day, the other night. I think they're really good. This will be a fun game.
1:10:25 Bill Simmons? I've been on them the last couple of weeks with billion dollar picks and just on the pod because I felt like people were sleeping on them or looking for reasons not to think they were good. And even like, you know, a couple of weeks ago, wow, they only won because of this. And then last week against Miami, well, it was cold weather. It seems like there's always an excuse for them. I just think they're pretty talented.
1:10:48 Bill Simmons? They have a ceiling that I'm not sure they've scratched yet, but they can run the ball, they can throw the ball. They can do explosive plays. They can create plays on defense. They're pretty well coached. They have a home field advantage. This will be a nice test. They're catching this Lions team. You know, they can definitely come in with some swagger. They played them well.
1:11:08 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:11:08 Bill Simmons? I like it. I have Lions by four and a half. I put this in the Vegas zone.
1:11:12 Speaker 01 All right. I get it. I said four. It's three and a half.
1:11:15 Bill Simmons? Oof. Wow.
1:11:16 Speaker 01 I think they feel the same way about this Lions defense as you do.
1:11:23 Bill Simmons? Yeah, it's tough because we we know the don't get carried away one way or the other with these Thursday games.
1:11:30 Speaker 01 Right.
1:11:31 Bill Simmons? Just.
1:11:32 Speaker 01 Well, they beat them on Thanksgiving last year.
1:11:33 Bill Simmons? Whatever happens, don't assume that that means that's going to happen in round two, round three, but it'll mean something.
1:11:38 Speaker 01 They beat them in what was that? It was beginning of November, right? 2414. I feel like they're much different now. Yeah, I think that, but I think they're better. Like Jordan Love's like one of the best quarter. I think he's the best quarterback getting blitzed. They're really kind of in sync.
1:11:54 Bill Simmons? Sunday marquee. I could give you Bills at Rams or Cards Seahawks. What do you think's the marquee out of those two?
1:12:00 Speaker 01 Hmm. I guess Bills Rams.
1:12:03 Bill Simmons? Okay, I had that too. Bills at the Rams.
1:12:10 Bill Simmons? I have the Bills favored by two and a half.
1:12:14 Speaker 01 Let me find this because they had it.
1:12:16 Bill Simmons? Uh. Higher?
1:12:19 Speaker 01 I said three, it's four and a half.
1:12:21 Bill Simmons? Oh, wow. Yeah, you are going to beat me this way. Fucking A.
1:12:26 Speaker 01 Well, now you know how it's going though.
1:12:30 Bill Simmons? Four and a half. That seems a whiff too high.
1:12:33 Speaker 01 Maybe a little bit. I mean, how much? I don't know. The Rams were so unimpressive, but the Bills have such a lead now on their division. I know they're chasing the one, but you got to think that they can't get up for all these games.
1:12:46 Bill Simmons? Watchables. Cards home for the Seahawks rematch. We saw this two weeks ago. This feels like a 1.5 or if I've ever seen it. Cards by one and a half.
1:12:55 Speaker 01 That's what I said because that's what it was a couple of weeks ago. It's two and a half. This is the one that flipped. It was Seattle one and a half, then it was Arizona, then it flipped again. They really like Arizona.
1:13:08 Bill Simmons? Fairly watchable. It's got four. Vikings home for the Falcons. This immediately becomes a watchable if it's Michael Penix. You could argue it should be a watchable anyway.
1:13:19 Bill Simmons? I had to put the point five on this Vikings by three and a half.
1:13:23 Speaker 01 Oh, I get this one too. I said five. It's four and a half.
1:13:27 Bill Simmons? Oh, come on. That's too high.
1:13:30 Speaker 01 Cousins ball. This is a fun one.
1:13:33 Bill Simmons? That's stupid.
1:13:36 Speaker 01 How about this, J.J. McCarthy against Penix and then it's a national championship from last year. If McCarthy can get off his ass.
1:13:43 Bill Simmons? Supposedly got hurt again.
1:13:45 Speaker 01 Yeah, I know. I think that was a setback. Yeah.
1:13:49 Bill Simmons? So let me ask you this.
1:13:52 Bill Simmons? If Penix becomes the starter on Tuesday, does this line move?
1:13:59 Speaker 01 Oh, man.
1:14:01 Speaker 01 No, I think it's already high.
1:14:03 Bill Simmons? You don't think it moves toward the Falcons?
1:14:06 Speaker 01 No, no. You gotta see.
1:14:08 Bill Simmons? You sure?
1:14:09 Speaker 01 Get in there. I'm not sure. I'm never sure about this. I'm 5'7" and 1".
1:14:13 Bill Simmons? I think it moves a point toward the Falcons.
1:14:15 Speaker 01 Really? A point?
1:14:16 Bill Simmons? I think that's how bad Cousins was today. Yeah.
1:14:18 Speaker 01 No one's ever seen him throw.
1:14:20 Bill Simmons? No one's ever seen him, but I know it's better than what I watched today.
1:14:24 Speaker 01 Cousins will be so pissed that they take this game away from him.
1:14:28 Bill Simmons? Fairly watchables. Can't believe it. The Panthers have crawled out of the poopfecta.
1:14:33 Speaker 01 Wow.
1:14:34 Bill Simmons? Through 500 yards of shit smelling foulness, the lengths they couldn't imagine.
1:14:42 Bill Simmons? Panthers at Eagles.
1:14:45 Bill Simmons? And I have the Eagles favored by 12 and 1/2.
1:14:47 Speaker 01 Oh, you nailed it. Wait a minute. This doesn't make sense. How do you make this a fairly watchable and make the line 12 and 1/2, which is right?
1:14:55 Bill Simmons? You know how it's a fairly watchable?
1:14:57 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:14:58 Bill Simmons? You know why? Because this Bryce Young thing's really fun. I'm in, I like comeback stories.
1:15:04 Speaker 01 All right.
1:15:04 Bill Simmons? It looked like he was dead and this seems like a classic Eagles take a dump and their fans freaking out game. And it's at least a fairly watchable for an hour. I want to see where it goes.
1:15:14 Speaker 01 I'm there for it. That'll be fun.
1:15:16 Bill Simmons? Steelers Browns in Pittsburgh. We saw this game 10 days ago and they'll make this just high enough that I have to sweat it out when I'm teasing it, but not too high that I can't tease it. Steelers by 8 and 1/2.
1:15:31 Speaker 01 Oh, good. I get it. I said 7. It's only 6 and 1/2.
1:15:35 Bill Simmons? Oh, come on.
1:15:36 Speaker 01 They're really about all these division games. Like this is, this is a teaser game for me and I'll be pissed if Tomlin doesn't come through.
1:15:45 Bill Simmons? Well, what happens tomorrow if Denver beats the hell out of Cleveland? This goes up.
1:15:49 Speaker 01 Oh, it'll go up. Yeah.
1:15:50 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:15:50 Speaker 01 A short week going to Pittsburgh, an angry team that, that you beat 10 days ago? They can't. They're not sweeping anyone, the Browns.
1:15:59 Bill Simmons? 49ers home for the Bears. Fairly watchable for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is the new coach bump.
1:16:07 Speaker 01 Mm hmm.
1:16:08 Bill Simmons? One of my favorite things to bet on, Thomas Brown, very well liked in the Chicago locker room. Respected. Eberflus, lost the locker room. They always tell us after they, after the guy gets fired, yeah, yeah, he lost the locker room last week. Where was that? We looked at that two weeks ago for gambling.
1:16:26 Bill Simmons? 49ers minus three over the Bears.
1:16:28 Speaker 01 Oh, no. I said, uh, five and it's five and a half.
1:16:33 Bill Simmons? Oh, that's idiotic.
1:16:35 Speaker 01 But McCaffrey might be out. I don't know. I mean, I think people, I don't know. You're betting Chicago here. You're not gonna bet Chicago.
1:16:43 Bill Simmons? This line, that line's three points too high. Why can't you, the 49ers are better than the Bears? The 49ers, you just watched them. They stink.
1:16:51 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:16:52 Bill Simmons? They're five and seven. They keep telling us that they're not a good team. Everybody's like, I don't know, 49ers.
1:16:57 Speaker 01 Unless this, you're right about this new coach. I, I haven't seen the craps he's taken in the toilet situation, but other than that, I, I just feel like they just, they blow every game. They don't care.
1:17:08 Bill Simmons? Yeah, I need some Thomas Brown info. Want to find out more about him? His bathroom habits, drinking habits?
1:17:14 Speaker 01 What did Brown do for us? Yeah.
1:17:17 Bill Simmons? Bears look like a great underdog pick. Is that line out for the underdog yet or for the money lines? They don't have the money lines yet, right?
1:17:23 Speaker 01 I didn't see it. No.
1:17:26 Speaker 01 No, they don't have it for that one.
1:17:28 Bill Simmons? Damn. Okay.
1:17:32 Bill Simmons? Poop Fecta, speaking of the clogger.
1:17:34 Speaker 01 Mm hmm.
1:17:36 Bill Simmons? Saints at Giants, clogging it up.
1:17:41 Bill Simmons? I think this is in the Vegas zone. I have Saints by four and a half at the Giants.
1:17:45 Speaker 01 Yeah, you nailed it. I don't know why I said two. It's exactly four and a half.
1:17:52 Speaker 01 Derek Carr is just miserable. I always forget, always forget, and then it happens.
1:18:01 Bill Simmons? At the moment you pressure him for like three plays in a row, he just turns into a different human being.
1:18:06 Speaker 01 Right.
1:18:08 Bill Simmons? I think some people, hopefully not on the Ringer Sunday pregame show, will be talking themselves into the Giants money line on Sunday.
1:18:16 Speaker 01 No, not this one.
1:18:19 Bill Simmons? Does it feel like a JJ kind of pick to you? I don't know, bro.
1:18:22 Speaker 01 Bro, I'm listening to talk.
1:18:24 Bill Simmons? Derek Carr in Giants stadium?
1:18:27 Speaker 01 You listen to these fans talking in a local radio, they're dialed in, they're dialed in for the Saints.
1:18:34 Bill Simmons? The case for the Giants would be they always win one dumb game when there's four or five left that screws up their draft pick by like three or four picks.
1:18:41 Speaker 01 Right.
1:18:42 Bill Simmons? And this is definitely a candidate for that. Titans, Jags in Tennessee.
1:18:49 Bill Simmons? I'm gonna try not to watch one second of this game.
1:18:51 Speaker 01 Mm hmm.
1:18:52 Bill Simmons? I don't want this on a multi-view. I don't want this anywhere. I don't want to see it on the red zone. Titans minus three over the Jags.
1:19:00 Speaker 01 You get it. I don't know why I said one and a half. It's four and a half.
1:19:07 Bill Simmons? They lost by 23 today.
1:19:10 Speaker 01 It's so high, that number. Although, your boy, Mac Jones missed some very, very easy throws. Like, they could have won that game, for sure. The Jags.
1:19:22 Bill Simmons? I saw some of the clips on the internets. I swear, the first three months of his career, Mac Jones was good. I swear, I would go to my grave saying that. I don't know what happened to him that he can no longer come even close to hitting wide open guys.
1:19:36 Speaker 01 Hmm.
1:19:37 Bill Simmons? But for three months, he could.
1:19:39 Speaker 01 That should scare you and the jersey you're wearing. Now, it's different?
1:19:42 Bill Simmons? Yeah, I was, I'm wearing the jersey. Had this on for good luck today.
1:19:47 Speaker 01 Why is it different? What would Kyle say is different?
1:19:50 Bill Simmons? Oh, he's, it's, you can't, Jake May is like, he's, it's the best, it's the best rookie quarterback we've ever had. It's not even close.
1:19:57 Speaker 01 Oh.
1:19:58 Bill Simmons? He can do everything.
1:20:00 Speaker 01 Okay.
1:20:00 Bill Simmons? Yeah, he's like, he's unbelievable.
1:20:03 Speaker 01 The best rookie quarterback?
1:20:05 Bill Simmons? That we've ever had, yeah. Brady didn't play as a rookie.
1:20:07 Speaker 01 Yeah, alright.
1:20:11 Bill Simmons? Dolphins Jets in Miami. Bro, we are gonna take care of business in this game, bro.
1:20:18 Speaker 01 He's going.
1:20:20 Bill Simmons? That's right, JJ is going.
1:20:21 Speaker 01 He's gonna be there.
1:20:25 Bill Simmons? Dolphins minus four and a half, does that sound right?
1:20:28 Speaker 01 No, I hit this exactly, six and a half.
1:20:31 Bill Simmons? Oh.
1:20:33 Speaker 01 Can you, if JJ has to be in the building when Aaron Rodgers beats the Dolphins. Good night.
1:20:41 Bill Simmons? What would you put on the announcement tomorrow, Tuesday, Aaron Rodgers has been waived by the New York Jets?
1:20:47 Speaker 01 Oh, waived.
1:20:49 Bill Simmons? Released.
1:20:50 Speaker 01 Yeah, but there's no consequence, right? Like, finance, I mean, there's a little bit of a hit, right?
1:20:56 Bill Simmons? They're just like, we're out, we're out of the Aaron Rodgers business, good luck.
1:20:59 Speaker 01 Yeah. Tuesday?
1:21:01 Bill Simmons? What are the odds? Would you say like five to one?
1:21:05 Speaker 01 You think they time it to happen during the McAfee interview?
1:21:08 Bill Simmons? Like, like 20 minutes before the McAfee interview, they're just like, you know what? You're released.
1:21:13 Speaker 01 Yeah, I like it. I'd bet it, I'd bet it just for fun.
1:21:17 Bill Simmons? No, but what are the odds, what do you think the odds are though? Cause I don't think it's like 10 to one. I think it's in the four to one, the six to one range. Like if you're booking the bet and you had to put odds down for people to bet, what would you put down?
1:21:31 Speaker 01 10 to one is too high, but I always imagined him walking away from it. I don't know why. You know, like, like you would, you know, when you have a, of friends.
1:21:39 Bill Simmons? Like just the retirement, like right before the Netflix thing comes out?
1:21:43 Speaker 01 Yeah, like you have a couple of like, oh man, he cheats on her all the time. Like, wait a minute, she left him and she didn't even know that he cheated? Wow, that's like, I kind of feel like that's what it would be.
1:21:52 Bill Simmons? What couple do you know that does that? That sounds like a fun couple. Bucks home for the Raiders is our last poop fact. Baker Mayfield could be seven and six MVP candidate, put that 200 to one odds down now. I have, uh, I have the Bucks by six and a half over the Raiders.
1:22:12 Speaker 01 I hit this exactly, I swear on our friendship, seven.
1:22:18 Bill Simmons? You were confident heading into this.
1:22:19 Speaker 01 They gotta win that. Aren't there some teasers staring us in the face here? Some nice, we don't even have to do three teamers.
1:22:25 Bill Simmons? I'm scared to put the Bucks in anything after watching them today.
1:22:28 Speaker 01 He's your MVP. How are you gonna, how's he gonna lose to?
1:22:31 Bill Simmons? We just.
1:22:32 Speaker 01 O'Connell, whatever.
1:22:33 Bill Simmons? We have to talk JJ out of not taking the Giants or the Jets as his underdog. Man, man's best bet, whatever, whatever we call it.
1:22:42 Speaker 01 I have to beat these guys.
1:22:42 Bill Simmons? Can't allow him to do it. Can't allow him to do it. Sunday night, Chiefs Chargers in Kansas City.
1:22:51 Bill Simmons? It's a Vegas zone if I've ever seen it. I'm gonna say Chiefs by five and a half.
1:22:55 Speaker 01 Oh, you went too high. I said three. It's three and a half.
1:23:00 Bill Simmons? Oh, wow. So, so everyone's just done with the Chiefs as a high favorite now?
1:23:05 Speaker 01 They're on to it.
1:23:06 Bill Simmons? Okay.
1:23:06 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah, they're on to it.
1:23:07 Bill Simmons? All right, we're all done. Does Mahomes though?
1:23:11 Speaker 01 He doesn't know. They don't, they don't tell him. They don't tell him until the last minute.
1:23:17 Speaker 01 Well, the Chargers have eight wins, right?
1:23:21 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:23:22 Speaker 01 They could play like a stifling defense. Like, I don't know. I mean, at this point, the Chiefs are good for 22 points. So, what's the other team that scored?
1:23:33 Bill Simmons? I have some Chargers action for the season that I'm excited to cash in on. They're one away from their over. Eight and a half was their over.
1:23:39 Speaker 01 That was good.
1:23:41 Bill Simmons? Playoffs was, I think, pretty, I think it was at least plus 120, something like that.
1:23:47 Speaker 01 Yep.
1:23:47 Bill Simmons? And I have Harbaugh Coach of the Year, which is probably not gonna win now.
1:23:52 Speaker 01 What do you have to do? Yeah, you just.
1:23:54 Bill Simmons? He has to go like at least 12 and 5 to win that, right?
1:23:57 Speaker 01 That's tough. That's tough. You got too many other division winners like that.
1:24:00 Bill Simmons? Other guys. Monday night.
1:24:05 Bill Simmons? What a hilarious game this is.
1:24:08 Bill Simmons? Cincinnati at the Dallas Cowboys, unflexed, because it's on a Monday night.
1:24:15 Speaker 01 Mm-hmm.
1:24:16 Bill Simmons? I don't know what team's been more disappointing. I have the Bengals favored, Bengals minus one and a half.
1:24:22 Speaker 01 Oh, wow. I thought this one you could have stolen, wouldn't have mattered. I said three and a half, six and a half is the number.
1:24:31 Bill Simmons? Come on.
1:24:33 Speaker 01 Well, this is a teaser darling, right? Borrow against rush. This is the, this is the season, tis the season, Simmons, for the Bengals. It's over anyway.
1:24:45 Bill Simmons? Even your crappy team could move the ball on them, though.
1:24:48 Speaker 01 I know. It's gonna be fun.
1:24:50 Bill Simmons? You could win this game. Somebody will take, that's an underdog money line bet.
1:24:55 Speaker 01 Seven, six, one on the year. Here we go.
1:24:57 Bill Simmons? Man, you're almost tied. Jacoby's gotta be fired up.
1:24:59 Speaker 01 Oh, yeah.
1:24:59 Bill Simmons? Thanks again. Thanks again to Workday for sponsoring this segment. Be a finance and HR rock star with Workday. To learn more, visit workday.com. One more break and then we do Parent Corner.
1:25:12 Bill Simmons? This episode is brought to you by Core Power Protein Shakes. You know how we always talk about the little things that separate great athletes? Post-workout recovery is a big factor. Core Power Protein Shakes help you keep going after your workout with high-quality protein to build muscle and electrolytes to help hydrate. It's all you need for your recovery in one bottle, available in 26 and 42 gram protein options to pick what works best for you. Visit corepower.com to learn more. This episode is brought to you by PayPal. The holiday rush is coming and you can get ahead of it with PayPal. Shop your favorite online stores with PayPal this season like eBay for collectibles, Fanatics for team gear, Walmart for tech. Check out the flexibility to pay now or pay later and split your payments with Pay in Four
1:25:56 Bill Simmons? with no interest, no late fees. Shop now with PayPal. Paying for is subject to approval. Learn more at paypal.com/payinfor. PayPal, Inc., NMLS 910457. Parent Corner, coming off Thanksgiving, always a lively addition.
1:26:16 Bill Simmons? What do you got? You could do your own kids? You could do your parents?
1:26:20 Speaker 01 I don't, uh, yeah, they all drive me so nuts. Well, really, you know what? I'll do my kids. Here's what I was gonna go with. And I, I feel like I'm thankful that they all have a piece of me. And it's not a great piece of me, but it's, I, I see me and all of them. Like my oldest son, I told you last week, was leaving early Friday to go to the Oregon Washington game. So yes, sports over everything. He's gone Friday after the meal. Good job. The wife's upset. The youngest kid, we go around the table on Thanksgiving and it's a torturous process. It lasts like 20 minutes, but we all say like, what we're thankful for. And like my mother goes for like eight minutes and it's crazy.
1:27:01 Speaker 01 But when we got to my little, my little one, Harrison, he thanked the Mets. He thanked the Mets for an exciting September. And I like that. I was like, you know, and only when he was prompted by my mother, did he come around and say he was thankful for anyone in the family. So there's that. I love that. And then my middle son, Jack, gets such a kick out of our friend Brad, our crazy friend Brad, who stayed with me. I said, Brad, you can come to Thanksgiving. It might be too much for you. There's gonna be 20 people. Or you could stay with me the rest of the weekend. Or you could do both, whatever. He's like, I'll be here Friday. So he comes out and my son, Jack, just loves it. I mean, you know Brad, he's like, every noise Brad makes, he loves it.
1:27:44 Speaker 01 Like if I let the dog out, I have to close the door quickly because Brad is usually screaming. If there's like a play on TV or if there's like hip hurts or something like, I don't want the neighbors to think there's a murder going on in the living room. So I'm like, come on, I'm like waving the dog in and my, my, my son loves it. My son loves it. Brad is like double fisting Mountain Dews at 9 a.m. Like he just, he's, he's all over it. And like, this is the, this is when I knew like, that's my boy. Like we ordered ribs Saturday night after watching football. And the order came and it was like a little light, like it just like, you can tell like, damn it, I'm mad. And Jack gave up his ribs just so he could watch Brad eat, just so he could watch it.
1:28:23 Bill Simmons? And like, wow, that's true love and affection.
1:28:26 Speaker 01 Yes, it's love and affection, but it's also like, he's like sneaking pictures too, because you could have like a 12 pack of Brillo pads and not get the barbecue sauce out of his beard for like even 10% of it. It's a real spectacle. And that's my boy. They all have, um, terrible qualities of mine. It adds up.
1:28:45 Bill Simmons? No, no family dysfunction, no shouty matches, nothing?
1:28:49 Speaker 01 Not too much. My father started getting into politics and he was shouted down. So luckily that.
1:28:54 Bill Simmons? How'd that go for him?
1:28:55 Speaker 01 Yeah, that was great. They're like, no, no, no, nobody wants to hear it.
1:29:00 Speaker 01 My sister announced that she and my mother are in therapy to 20 strangers. So that was fun. But that's it. It was pretty light.
1:29:13 Bill Simmons? So my daughter went back to school today, but she was here for a while and you know, it just you fall back into the old habits. But on Friday, day off, my wife wanted to go for like a big, long walk and we'll just go and maybe we'll stop and get a drink somewhere. So we walk, we walk and we walk and we walk and we end up all the way in Beverly Hills. We decided to get like a Bloody Mary. We're with our friend Krista. And then that leads to we, we go by and we stop by my mom's house, who of course has wine going. So there's some wine there. And then we're walking back. We're talking about the french fries at the Four Seasons, which has spawned David Chang to do his BS fries, Major Domo. Like you never had the french fries? So we go there, two more drinks. So now, now we're like,
1:29:59 Bill Simmons? I'm, I haven't had this many, but my wife and Krista are definitely going for it. There might've been a couple.
1:30:04 Speaker 01 This is all on a walk?
1:30:06 Bill Simmons? Yeah, we're doing, we're doing a 25,000 step walk. This is what they, they drink and they walk it up. But you know, getting a little tipsy and
1:30:15 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:30:15 Bill Simmons? Little, little, little. So there, my wife's trying to get my daughter to come out, my wife, and my daughter doesn't want to come out. It's like, come meet us. Now we're going to be here. That still doesn't want to come out. So then at four o'clock, we're walking back and it's like, let's go to the Grove. So we're walking through the Grove. Text my daughter again, meet us now. Then a half hour later, she texts both of us like, where is everybody? I've been alone all day. Sets my wife off. And she's just like, we've invited her this whole day and now she's mad that we're not home. I'm coming home and I'm gonna talk to her. I'm like, no. So we get home at like six. My wife goes upstairs and all of a sudden they're just yelling at each other for 10 minutes. And, and I'm just, I'm sitting down. I'm like, oh my God, really? We're gonna do this?
1:31:00 Bill Simmons? And, uh, and then my wife comes back down. She's like, I'm leaving. I'm going out. I'm like, where, where are you going? Like you're not trying. She's like, no, I'm gonna watch. There's this party over there. Friends I'm leaves and goes walks to somebody else's house and she's just mad and next morning they wake up. Everything's fine. She goes in, hey, sorry about yesterday, but I was like, oh yeah, it's fine. And I'm like, this is, we're back. How did we run this back so quickly? You guys played all the hits. You crammed them all together.
1:31:31 Speaker 01 Well, that's great.
1:31:32 Bill Simmons? The mother, you see, you never had it because you had the three sons. The mother daughter energy is like nothing else.
1:31:37 Speaker 01 What was the fight?
1:31:39 Bill Simmons? Honestly, I don't even really know what the fight was. My wife didn't really know the next day either. And what I realized is with moms and daughters, it's like in hockey. When, you know, it's like game four of a series and it's like five, two. It's like 10 minutes left and it's, and all of a sudden the enforcers are skating around and like, all right. And they just kind of drop the gloves and start going. That was what it was like. They just needed to kind of drop the gloves and go. Get some punches in, hold each other, have the guy, have the teammates. So I was basically the teammate in the, uh, you know, in the, in the, where do you, where do you call all the hockey players?
1:32:17 Speaker 01 The bench?
1:32:18 Bill Simmons? Yeah, the bench. I don't know. I was blanking. I'm on the bench like tapping my stick like, good brawl, guys. Good brawl. And then, you know, they hang out the rest of the weekend. We went to dinner last night. My wife drove to the airport today. It's like, couldn't be better. They just had to drop the gloves.
1:32:32 Speaker 01 And then, yeah, because like hockey, at the end of the playoff series, everybody lines up and shakes hands, right? So it's the same.
1:32:38 Bill Simmons? That's what it is.
1:32:38 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:32:39 Bill Simmons? So, and I was saying to my wife, like, it's just weird that you guys have to do that. And she's like, you know, if we didn't do that, I think that would be, that would make me nervous.
1:32:49 Speaker 01 Interesting.
1:32:49 Bill Simmons? And I'm like, okay, I guess that makes sense. And whatever weird world you're in. You know, that it just means we're communicating. All right.
1:32:59 Speaker 01 Right.
1:32:59 Bill Simmons? Sure.
1:33:02 Bill Simmons? I guess that's what it means.
1:33:04 Speaker 01 That the 25,000 step walk leads to a 12 step program. I don't know. There's something in there. I'm not sure.
1:33:11 Bill Simmons? 25,000 steps, seven drinks, and then 12 steps.
1:33:16 Speaker 01 Step one denial, step 24,998 admittance.
1:33:21 Bill Simmons? Yeah, I want to have the Sopranos intervention for her and Krista. It's just like, just have Paulie and Sylvia and Tony.
1:33:31 Bill Simmons? Paulie going, you make me sick. Chrissy, you make me sick.
1:33:36 Speaker 01 Mr. Type A personality. This is not about my personality.
1:33:44 Bill Simmons? Anyway, that's parent quarter.
1:33:46 Speaker 01 It's great.
1:33:47 Bill Simmons? Great to have the family back. What, uh, what do you got? What do you got to plug?
1:33:51 Speaker 01 What do I got? I got a lot through the wringer with the great Tate Frazier against the odds. We're going to go over the conference finals for college football. Bring a pregame show, which you were on. I'm 11 and two with my best bet Simmons. I try, I'm trying to make it a game here, but nobody wants to catch me. What are you going to do? Cut and sales winning weekend boomer size and is a guest. And I have a documentary that I produced on yacht rock. It's on Max.
1:34:16 Bill Simmons? Oh, I heard that was really good.
1:34:17 Speaker 01 No, no, it wasn't me. That was you and Daniel Kellison produced that and I loved it.
1:34:22 Bill Simmons? It was his idea, apparently, in some form.
1:34:28 Speaker 01 I loved it. I really did.
1:34:30 Bill Simmons? Thank you.
1:34:31 Speaker 01 I'll tell you, my favorite is the Michael McDonald collaboration stuff with Kenny Loggins. By the way, the documentary says that Michael McDonald, not the same Michael McDonald that coaches the Seahawks. So I didn't know that. Different guy. But no, that they did what a fool believes, which I know. And then talking about that they knew their next, well, they thought their next project would fail. And that was this is it. And that was not.
1:34:56 Bill Simmons? Yeah, they just wanted to like bang out a song quickly so they could write something else.
1:35:00 Speaker 01 And then heart to heart. I loved it. I really, really did.
1:35:04 Bill Simmons? Oh, thanks, buddy.
1:35:05 Speaker 01 And total, one thing I'll say though, and I feel like this could be like, is Die Hard a Christmas movie? Debacle. Total definitely influenced other yacht rockers, but I don't consider total yacht rock.
1:35:21 Bill Simmons? Interesting. I think they're an essential because of Rosanna and Africa.
1:35:27 Speaker 01 Yeah. You think those are, I mean, I don't know. I think Rosanna.
1:35:30 Bill Simmons? I think Africa is known as like a yacht rock staple, right?
1:35:35 Speaker 01 Really?
1:35:36 Bill Simmons? I don't know. You wouldn't put Georgie Porgy in there as a staple?
1:35:39 Speaker 01 Uh, maybe, maybe, maybe. I, I mean, a lot of bands have one maybe song, but I just, uh, and it was done so well. Like where people like, you can't put your finger on what is your, you just know, you just know when you hear it, but.
1:35:51 Bill Simmons? Yeah. Like my Lambert said, it was like pornography where you just know that it's porn. Yeah.
1:35:55 Speaker 01 Exactly.
1:35:56 Bill Simmons? The weird ones for me are Hall & Oates, who I don't consider yacht rock, but I do think they have a couple yacht rock songs.
1:36:02 Speaker 01 Mm hmm.
1:36:04 Bill Simmons? That just, and the Eagles are the same way. I don't think they're a yacht rock band. I would never say they did yacht rock. But I think One of These Nights is a yacht rock song. So it's like just, there's a Venn diagram where when it crosses, you kind of know. And you just grab the song. Michael Jackson, Human Nature and Rock With You are yacht rock songs, but he's obviously not a yacht rock artist.
1:36:23 Speaker 01 Right.
1:36:24 Bill Simmons? Lionel Richie, The Commodores, like those guys had, they're more pop artists, but they definitely had songs that if you didn't know who sang them, they're yacht rock songs.
1:36:31 Speaker 01 Did you find that most of them like were, I know there was definitely, I don't want to ruin it, but we're, people were annoyed to be put in that category too. Right?
1:36:40 Bill Simmons? For a while, yeah, because it became, it's like, are you making fun of me? Are you on my side? I think that existed for a while, but now I think it's such a popular genre. Now I think the artists kind of get it, that it's good for them. It's good for their music. It's good for the Spotify. It's also like, you know, for playlists, it's got its own Sirius station.
1:37:00 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:37:00 Bill Simmons? So it's become like its own genre.
1:37:03 Speaker 01 Right.
1:37:04 Bill Simmons? You know, which feel like disco that happened.
1:37:08 Bill Simmons? You know, like West Coast rap, like there's certain genres that you kind of know it when you hear it. So.
1:37:15 Speaker 01 It's right up my alley. I recommend it to anyone, anyone going on a 25,000 step walk, just, uh, pop in Max.
1:37:22 Bill Simmons? Twenty, 25,000 12 step walk.
1:37:26 Bill Simmons? Cause pleasure is always, good job by you.
1:37:29 Speaker 01 Good job by you, buddy.
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