Richard Kind - Summer Staff Picks

Our summer tradition at Here’s the Thing continues, as staff members choose their favorite conversations from the archives for our Summer Staff Pick series. This week, we revisit Alec’s conversation with Richard Kind. Single-handedly redefining the term “character actor,” the accomplished Richard Kind is surely one of the hardest working people in show business. His resume is unfathomably wide and deep, with over 270 film and television credits, spanning roles that exploit his killer comedic timing, like sitcoms “Spin City” and “Curb Your Enthusiasm,” and those that exercise his dramatic chops, like HBO’s “Luck” and the CBS procedural “East New York.” He’s an actor just as likely to appear in an Oscar-winning feature film as an animated one, to scene-steal a sketch comedy series as to star in an indie short. Kind is also a Tony-nominated stage actor, having appeared on Broadway in “The Producers,” “Funny Girl” and “The Big Knife,” among many others. Richard Kind speaks with host Alec Baldwin about the type of comedians that raised him, how he found his way to the profession after almost attending law school – and why he believes he is the “Costco of acting.” See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

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• 1:05Alec Baldwin?

  This is Alec Baldwin, and you're listening to Here's the Thing from iHeart Radio. It's summer, and that means it's time for our tradition at Here's the Thing, where the staff share their favorite episodes from our archives in our Summer Staff Picks series. First up is our producer, Isaac Kaplan-Wolner.

• 1:25Speaker 05

  Thanks, Alec. As the newest member of the Here's the Thing team, I've spent the year going on a deep dive of the archives. One of my favorite episodes has to be with the hilarious and seemingly omnipresent character actor, Richard Kind. He just has one of those voices that immediately makes me laugh. And Alec's interview with Kind highlights not only his warm wit, but his intelligent and captivating storytelling. I think you'll enjoy Alec's 2024 interview with Richard Kind as much as I do.

• 1:56Alec Baldwin?

  If you turn on your device or television or go to the movies, you're likely to have the good fortune of enjoying the work of my guest today. Who else has such a prolific output? A starring role in a Coen Brothers movie, One Moment, and a cameo in a network sitcom, only one of the hardest-working people in show business, Richard Kind. Kind, single-handedly, redefined the term "character actor." Memorable roles on Spin City and Curb Your Enthusiasm exploit his killer comedic timing, while HBO's Luck and the Oscar-winning Argo exercise his dramatic chops.

• 2:37Alec Baldwin?

  He lends his voice to animated films like Cars and Inside Out, and then graces the stage as a Tony-nominated Drama Desk-winning theater actor. And his stage resume is deep. Dirty Rotten Scoundrels, The Tale of the Allergist's Wife, Candide, and Kiss Me, Kate. He even starred as Max Bialystock in the iconic Mel Brooks musical, The Producers. Kiss me, squeeze me, touch me, love me. What are they in The Producers?

• 3:06Speaker 06

  Hold me, touch me.

• 3:07Alec Baldwin?

  Hold me, touch me. You played that part.

• 3:10Speaker 06

  I did.

• 3:11Alec Baldwin?

  Where did you do that part?

• 3:12Speaker 06

  Broadway and the Hollywood Bowl. And Mel wants me to do it in London.

• 3:16Alec Baldwin?

  Now Broadway, you mean after they, when they left, you came on, or?

• 3:20Speaker 06

  I did it, I did, I call it, I did it for Asians and Iowans. Because they got all of the New Yorkers.

• 3:28Alec Baldwin?

  Yeah.

• 3:28Speaker 06

  Then Stephen Weber, and it was Henry Goodman, and then Brad Oscar did it for a while. And they got some of the New Yorkers who couldn't afford the expensive seats and got, yeah, smart people from all over the country, you know, from cities. And then when there's nobody left.

• 3:43Alec Baldwin?

  You came in to mop it up.

• 3:44Speaker 06

  That's when I came in.

• 3:45Alec Baldwin?

  You came in to close it.

• 3:45Speaker 06

  I sort of did. I didn't close it, but I did it with about eight different Leos. Whenever there was a Leo that was gonna go out on the road, they would put him in for three days to see what he was like with me. And I would test him. And there was one guy, one, he's a lovely, lovely guy, Patrick, and I can't remember his last name. He is a Broadway stalwart. And so he's, but he's built like a brick shit house.

• 4:08Alec Baldwin?

  Patrick Cassidy?

• 4:09Speaker 06

  No, no, no, no, no. He's playing Leo.

• 4:11Alec Baldwin?

  He's right for Leo.

• 4:12Speaker 06

  Nobody you would know.

• 4:13Alec Baldwin?

  He's built like a brick shit house and he's playing Leo?

• 4:15Speaker 06

  And he's playing Leo. And at the end of the act, I put my arm around him, you know, and go, we're gonna do it, we'll do it, like that. And I go, oh my God, this guy could pummel me. But he's been in 20 Broadway shows. He's a real stalwart, but he's a, he's a guy. You know, there's a lot of people on Broadway who are more known as understudies because they can do every sort of role. They're in the cast, they're the swings, they can do everything. And you have great talents and they will not raise them up to the role of performer. And they, they should be. They mistakenly keep themselves in constant employment as swings. And they don't have the ambition to rise above. And I think that's an interesting person.

• 4:55Alec Baldwin?

  I've found, and I'm sure you've found over these, lo, these many years, that for some of them, certainly not all of them, it's about geography. They don't want to leave town. There's things they could go do that could maybe help their career, whatever it may be, TV, films, or shows. But they want to stay in New York. They don't want to leave, wife, kids. I remember them doing soaps, we used to call Upper Montclair, New Jersey, the Soap Opera Riviera.

• 5:16Speaker 06

  Oh, that's very funny.

• 5:17Alec Baldwin?

  They all lived out there and came in, and it was about families.

• 5:19Speaker 06

  I, I, I believe that, but no, I don't totally agree with you. I'm sorry. And right off, we get contentious. No, they, they want to stay in a position, maybe they do have families, and that is why they are complacent about their ambition.

• 5:35Alec Baldwin?

  So complacency is to blame for their careers?

• 5:37Speaker 06

  I think it is. They, they work all the time. Yes, it's complacency, but it's not fear of travel because a lot of them go on the road. There, there's a lot more money to be made on the road. You get per diem and you get paid.

• 5:48Alec Baldwin?

  The moment you walked in, I knew you were not gonna have the kind of conversation I call the log rolling conversation.

• 5:52Speaker 06

  What is that?

• 5:53Alec Baldwin?

  One of us is going in the water, guess which one's gonna go in the water? Which one of us is gonna get tossed in the water now?

• 5:57Speaker 06

  All right, but I'm right about this.

• 5:59Alec Baldwin?

  Yeah, but I'm not, I'm gonna defer to you on everything.

• 6:01Speaker 06

  I'm still dry.

• 6:02Alec Baldwin?

  We also concluded, my producers and I, who work on the show with me, we also concluded that this podcast is the only thing in show business you haven't done yet. This is this one show. You've done everything but the show.

• 6:13Speaker 06

  It's crazy. I know. I should be much wealthier. I do everything. I have said this before, I am the Costco of acting. I come in quantity and I come cheap. And that's what it is.

• 6:24Alec Baldwin?

  Like toilet paper.

• 6:25Speaker 06

  Like toilet paper. You get, yes, instead of buying 12 rolls at the CVS.

• 6:29Alec Baldwin?

  Get a case.

• 6:29Speaker 06

  You got 26 for the same price. Yes, that's me.

• 6:33Alec Baldwin?

  Now, when you were a child, New Jersey.

• 6:35Speaker 06

  Bucks County, Pennsylvania.

• 6:36Alec Baldwin?

  Bucks County, Pennsylvania, I'm sorry.

• 6:36Speaker 06

  Yeah. My dad was head of store in Princeton, New Jersey.

• 6:39Alec Baldwin?

  Oh, he was in Princeton, Western New Jersey there.

• 6:42Speaker 06

  Yeah, but I was, we were, yeah, we were right across the river.

• 6:44Alec Baldwin?

  Right. The point is that you're there. What was, because I'll just preface this by saying, when I was a kid, and there was only network TV, no streaming, no movies, no HBO, there was network TV.

• 6:53Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 6:54Alec Baldwin?

  And yeah, I watched a little Albert.

• 6:55Speaker 06

  You call it network TV. I call the Channel 2, Channel 4, and Channel 7.

• 6:58Alec Baldwin?

  Yeah, right, 2, 4, 7.

• 6:59Speaker 06

  Yeah, okay, good.

• 6:59Alec Baldwin?

  And OR, PAX, and any W.

• 7:02Speaker 06

  Yeah, exactly, exactly. And we would watch the Million Dollar Movie five times a week, Monday through Friday, was the same one every week. What was the theme song for Million Dollar Movie?

• 7:10Alec Baldwin?

  From Gone with the Wind.

• 7:10Speaker 06

  Thank you very much. Okay, please, let's go on. We're both on the log right now.

• 7:14Alec Baldwin?

  Come on, you're lobbing softballs to me here. Now, wait a second. I'm gonna get you with that in a minute. But when I was a kid, it was all like, there were some dramas and whatever, but I watched F Troop and Gilligan's Island and all this crap all the time. And I dream of Jeannie. I watched network comedy.

• 7:30Speaker 06

  But I knew it all.

• 7:31Alec Baldwin?

  And that was my roots.

• 7:31Speaker 06

  And I knew the TV Guide. And at that time, I had my finger on the pulse of America and what they liked. And it was a big slap in the face when I thought that I knew about things and I absolutely didn't.

• 7:46Alec Baldwin?

  How so?

• 7:47Speaker 06

  Okay. Who Wants to be a Millionaire?

• 7:49Alec Baldwin?

  Right.

• 7:50Speaker 06

  Who's gonna watch Who Wants to be a Millionaire? It's Jeopardy with seven questions.

• 7:54Alec Baldwin?

  Right.

• 7:55Speaker 06

  I said, nobody's gonna watch this. Biggest hit in the world.

• 7:58Alec Baldwin?

  Right.

• 7:59Speaker 06

  That's what it was to me, and I go, it can't be.

• 8:01Alec Baldwin?

  I did a charity episode of that, yeah.

• 8:02Speaker 06

  You, you did, okay, I'm gonna tell you something. I was the first person to ever win a million dollars on Who Wants to be a Millionaire.

• 8:09Alec Baldwin?

  Oh my god.

• 8:09Speaker 06

  I'll tell you how.

• 8:10Alec Baldwin?

  Who was the host? Regis?

• 8:11Speaker 06

  Regis.

• 8:12Alec Baldwin?

  Oh my.

• 8:12Speaker 06

  No, I'll tell you how. It was an ABC show, and my character from Spin City goes on Who Wants to be a Millionaire, and I win a million dollars. And nobody who had won a million dollars had been broadcast yet. A. A? Really? No, no, okay, okay, no, no, no, no, C.

• 8:32Speaker 06

  D. D. You sure? Yes, D. B. B. B is your final answer. A. D, D, B, C.

• 8:44Speaker 06

  So I was the first person, I wasn't, Paul Lasseter from Spin City was the first person. And the thing, you know, and it had hardly been on, and there were some people who's...

• 8:54Alec Baldwin?

  So you have a lot of confusion between yourself and your character?

• 8:56Speaker 06

  I... This is how good I am.

• 8:59Alec Baldwin?

  I won.

• 8:59Speaker 06

  This is who, how good I am.

• 9:01Alec Baldwin?

  But really it was Paul Lasseter, right?

• 9:01Speaker 06

  I immersed myself.

• 9:03Alec Baldwin?

  I kissed Elizabeth Taylor, but really it was, uh...

• 9:06Speaker 06

  It was, uh...

• 9:06Alec Baldwin?

  Paul Lasseter kissed.

• 9:07Speaker 06

  It was, it was, yeah, okay. But I'll tell you something else. Do you remember when Farrah Fawcett had her poster out, right?

• 9:14Alec Baldwin?

  Yes, of course.

• 9:15Speaker 06

  Okay. Arnold Schwarzenegger said, "I will be bigger than Farrah Fawcett." At, at, at the time.

• 9:23Alec Baldwin?

  And we all snorted.

• 9:24Speaker 06

  And I said, "Who the hell does this idiot think that he is?" I was wrong.

• 9:29Alec Baldwin?

  Yeah.

• 9:30Speaker 06

  I thought I had my finger on the... I don't know what, I, there was a day that happened where...

• 9:35Alec Baldwin?

  But that continues today. I'm at a party the other day, and Greta Gerberg is there with Bombak.

• 9:39Speaker 06

  Right.

• 9:39Alec Baldwin?

  And I said to them, "If I could go back in time, if I could have one wish, my wish would be I'd go back in time while you were filming, and I'd say, Barbie's gonna earn a billion dollars worldwide, and take all comers, take all bets."

• 9:49Speaker 06

  Yeah, exactly.

• 9:50Alec Baldwin?

  Cover every bet.

• 9:50Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 9:51Alec Baldwin?

  And they looked at me like, "Wow, that's a weird thing to say."

• 9:53Speaker 06

  Exactly, okay. I was at a poker game. With a guy, friend. So he's at the poker game and says, my wife has been asked to write a pitch for the Lego movie. At which point, seven guys start making fun of the Lego movie.

• 10:11Alec Baldwin?

  Yeah.

• 10:11Speaker 06

  Oh, oh, I don't know which piece to put here. Do I put a long rectangle or do I put a square here? Hmm, what do I do?

• 10:19Alec Baldwin?

  The adult film.

• 10:20Speaker 06

  Yes, all of a sudden, three or four or five years later, the Lego movie comes out and it's huge. But can you imagine coming to a table and saying, we're going to make a movie about Legos? And we just laughed, we just laughed.

• 10:33Alec Baldwin?

  My career, I make a movie with my ex-wife. We decide we want to work together. We weren't really very fussy about what we were doing, not fussy enough. But we get our hands on this original script that Walter Hill wrote for The Getaway with Steve McQueen. And we decide we're going to do a remake of The Getaway. I want to do an action film. I hadn't done one in a while and we're going to go to Arizona and do The Getaway. And Walter Hill leaves because they wouldn't give him enough money to make the movie. And then we go do it with Roger Donaldson. And the point is, is that we come out and I don't have high hopes. I mean, it's we're doing a remake, which is always dicey. And the movie comes out, but we're up against the movie. I looked at my ex-wife and I said, we're in, we scored.

• 11:11Speaker 06

  Okay.

• 11:11Alec Baldwin?

  We're up against this movie, we're opening weekend against this movie Ace Ventura Pet Detective. I mean, what the fuck is Ace Ventura? And then the rest is history.

• 11:19Speaker 06

  Yep, yep, yep. Who knows?

• 11:21Alec Baldwin?

  Who knows?

• 11:21Speaker 06

  I do not have my pulse.

• 11:23Alec Baldwin?

  But your childhood.

• 11:24Speaker 06

  My childhood, I knew everything.

• 11:25Alec Baldwin?

  Movies, TV.

• 11:26Speaker 06

  I knew everything.

• 11:27Alec Baldwin?

  You watched a lot of TV.

• 11:28Speaker 06

  Well, Dick Van Dyke, by the way, who did I have breakfast with this morning? Bill Persky.

• 11:34Alec Baldwin?

  Bill Persky, oh, God.

• 11:35Speaker 06

  Who created, well, he didn't create, but he wrote the lion's share of Dick Van Dyke shows. And he quoted, he quoted an episode that Howie Morris did. And I go, yes, and I started filling in the blanks with, because I remember Dick Van Dyke Show, Get Smart. Get Smart was, was, was manner to me. That's what I was raised on. Soupy Sales was manner to me. I was, I was raised on Soupy Sales. That's, he was, I, I got a funny story about it, but I'll tell you later. But I went to his. Funeral over at the Campbell Hall.

• 12:08Alec Baldwin?

  No.

• 12:08Speaker 06

  But I had never met him before. It's just I read the obit and it says it's at the Campbell Hall. I'm going over.

• 12:13Alec Baldwin?

  Frank Campbell.

• 12:14Speaker 06

  Frank Campbell, yeah, over on Seventy Seventh or whatever.

• 12:17Alec Baldwin?

  The funeral parlor.

• 12:18Speaker 06

  It is the funeral.

• 12:19Alec Baldwin?

  Yeah.

• 12:19Speaker 06

  It is the funeral parlor.

• 12:21Alec Baldwin?

  To the stories, yeah.

• 12:22Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 12:22Alec Baldwin?

  But you went to Supi's thing. I mean, to me, it's like, who's the other one? I remember Supi said, I mean, I would sit home. I mean, I would lie to my mother. And I didn't do this like all the time, but I did it enough times, believe me. I almost got in trouble for this. And I would sit at my mother, I'm sick. And I realized my mother was lonely. My mother put all of her kids in school and her husband was gone all day and she was lonely. So she let me stay home from school to have a companion.

• 12:45Speaker 06

  That's nice. And what did you do? Did you watch movies?

• 12:47Alec Baldwin?

  I watched Hollywood Squares and I watched Paul Lind. I learned half of my acting from Paul Lind. Paul Lind taught me how to act.

• 12:54Speaker 06

  Have you done Hollywood Squares?

• 12:56Alec Baldwin?

  I did Hollywood Squares.

• 12:57Speaker 06

  With when Whoopi.

• 12:58Alec Baldwin?

  I did Millionaire. I did Hollywood Squares with Whoopi and it was for charity. They got the guy, the, what's his name? King? That owned the show.

• 13:05Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 13:06Alec Baldwin?

  So King was very kind to me and knew that my charity, my mother's foundation for breast cancer, my mom passed away last year. But she had a breast cancer foundation housed at SUNY Stony Brook and then we got a chapter upstate where she moved to. And so a lot of beneficiary, Danny Wegman from Wegman Supermarkets, very kind to my family and King gives me two hundred and fifty thousand dollars to do the show. So I go on, dude, you give me two hundred and fifty thousand bucks to do one week of, of, of the show with Whoopi. I go, I have a ball. I do Millionaire, I have a ball. And then I host Match Game. For those three years, we did Match Game and someone would say to me, oh, of course. In this way that my career is like a very blurry Polaroid here, I do this, I do this, I do this. They're like, well, another coffin in Alec Baldwin's career.

• 13:50Alec Baldwin?

  Casket. And I'm, and I think to myself, well, I did it for the money. I did it for the charity thing to give the money away. But then I couldn't hold my, hold back the truth, which was I had more fun doing that than a lot of other things.

• 14:01Speaker 06

  I love it. I love it.

• 14:02Alec Baldwin?

  I loved doing Match Game. We had a ball.

• 14:04Speaker 06

  Now, I'm gonna tell you something. When I was on Spin City, I was approached to do special episodes of America's Funniest Home Videos. So I did a Christmas show.

• 14:17Speaker 06

  It was an hour show and I said, I will do it, but I don't want to do it like Bob Saget. I don't want the fireplace. I don't want the audience. I don't want me talking, talking and making these stupid jokes. I'll narrate the films, but I'll host by introducing the clips, but I don't want to be funny. They did. Plasma TVs were first invented. I said, let's have them on poles. I wore a black turtleneck. I hosted it for an hour. Highest rated America's Funniest Home Video Special that they ever had.

• 14:52Alec Baldwin?

  Richard Kind. If you enjoy conversations with inspiring comedic actors, check out my episode with one of Richard Kind's earliest co-stars, the legendary Carol Burnett.

• 15:05Speaker 07

  In that era, the only one who really would speak up was Lucy. She was very strong. But it's not in my nature to Take over. confront or anything. You know, if a sketch wasn't working or something, instead of like Gleason or Sid would say, look, guys, this stinks. Now, come on, you gotta fix it. But, you know, they would do that. I would say, I'd call the writers down into the rehearsal hall and I'd say, you know, guys, I'm not doing this too well. Do you think maybe you could help me out with a different line here or there? Because, you know, otherwise I would have been a bitch.

• 15:45Alec Baldwin?

  To hear more of my conversation with Carol Burnett, go to here's the thing.org. After the break, Richard Kind shares his experience landing a job with the one and only Carol Burnett.

• 16:10Alec Baldwin?

  She'd throw things, wander.

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• 17:47Speaker 02

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• 17:55Speaker 05

  That last year, finishing that record was the hardest experience of my life. To find your creativity and to believe in yourself, because somewhere in the midst of it, I stopped believing that my voice mattered and that I could find it again. That's a challenge. I was not feeling very confident creatively, only, again, defiant in my belief that what this is about is express something honest. Say something honest.

• 18:31Speaker 02

  Experience Before the Moment, a Lincoln original series on the iHeartRadio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 18:42Alec Baldwin?

  I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing. If you feel there is no dramatic or comedic role Richard Kind can't inhabit, you might be right. With over 270 film and television credits to his name, it seems like the profession was built for him. I wanted to know if Kind always knew that the field of acting was his destiny.

• 19:07Speaker 06

  No, no, no, no, no.

• 19:09Alec Baldwin?

  So that's law school?

• 19:09Speaker 06

  Some business was made for other people.

• 19:11Alec Baldwin?

  Exactly.

• 19:12Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 19:12Alec Baldwin?

  I felt the same way.

• 19:13Speaker 06

  No, but I'm an actor, are you kidding me? And, and my, yeah.

• 19:17Alec Baldwin?

  It's a fantasy.

• 19:17Speaker 06

  My father said he wanted me to go to law school, business school, to take over his store.

• 19:21Alec Baldwin?

  And then you went to Northwestern Great Law School for one year?

• 19:24Speaker 06

  No, no, no, I went to Northwestern undergrad. I was accepted to U of P Law School and I deferred it. My dad's best friend, he said, "Try acting because you'll be resentful of your children and your wife."

• 19:36Alec Baldwin?

  You'll never be young again.

• 19:38Speaker 06

  Yeah, so try it.

• 19:39Alec Baldwin?

  Young enough. So you didn't go to law school for a year?

• 19:41Speaker 06

  I didn't go to law school at all. I deferred. No, no, no, never went to law school. My first year, I took acting classes with a guy named Bud Beyer. Bud Beyer, during one class, he knew my parents. He met them and liked them and that I was supposed to go into law school. He put me onstage in a chair and for 45, 50 minutes, he berated me for not having the courage to become an actor. That's what, and he cowered, everything like that. And I said, "It's just what I was made to do. I was supposed to go into my dad's store. It's all there for me. Have two and a half kids, belong to the country club." And then it was just, it was in February, we were watching a football game with Steve Holsman in our living room, January, February.

• 20:25Speaker 06

  And during the commercial, he said, "You should defer law school and try it." And like I said, one year turns into two and then I just never went.

• 20:32Alec Baldwin?

  And how did you try? You went to school for it? You went to Second City?

• 20:35Speaker 06

  No, no, no.

• 20:36Alec Baldwin?

  Where was Gallotti a professor of yours?

• 20:38Speaker 06

  Ah, Gallotti was, ah, Gallotti was great. Did you know him?

• 20:40Alec Baldwin?

  I knew of him, yeah.

• 20:41Speaker 06

  Oh, Gallotti was great. Gallotti at Northwestern. I went to him my, probably my junior or senior year, and I said, I wanna be an actor, but, you know, I think that I should be going to law school and business school so I can go to my dad's store. He said, well, why don't you become a producer? So then you get the business. I go, no, no, no. I become an actor or I become rich at my dad's store. It's one or the other. It wasn't, I just wanna be in showbiz. I wanna be an actor. And I, I said, I told him that, and he goes, well, you're not gonna work until you're thirty-two. Because you don't have the face for what Hollywood wants. So, go out there, get good, and then at age thirty-two. Gallotti said that to me. Yeah, and, and I did. I, I came to New York. I went, I had HB Studios.

• 21:26Speaker 06

  I worked at, you remember the saloon?

• 21:28Alec Baldwin?

  Right.

• 21:28Speaker 06

  I opened the saloon. Okay? It's now a Bed Bath and, or was a Bed Bath and Beyond.

• 21:33Alec Baldwin?

  I opened Tootshores, anyway, go ahead.

• 21:35Speaker 06

  No, you didn't. No, I was a, no, but I did. I was a waiter. I was a waiter at, at the saloon. With Jennifer Grey, who I later became my wife in a TV series. So, we all worked there. And I took classes at HB Studios. I did all, off-Broadway plays. I did a play called Take Death to Lunch with Lonny Price. I did a great play that sounds like it shouldn't be. The Day the Whores Came Out to Play Tennis by Arthur Kopit, who later became a friend of mine.

• 22:04Alec Baldwin?

  The Arthur Kopit?

• 22:05Speaker 06

  The Arthur Kopit.

• 22:06Alec Baldwin?

  Great playwright.

• 22:07Speaker 06

  In fact, Arthur, he wrote Oh Dad, Poor Dad about a little, you know, five-foot-four stutterer. Okay, so, one day, Arthur.

• 22:13Alec Baldwin?

  Mom was in the closet and she's feeling so bad.

• 22:15Speaker 06

  That is correct. So, one day, I'm doing a play at Bay Street. He comes backstage to say hello. I'd never met him. And I, I, and he's, he's six-four, handsome as all get out, looked like a baseball player. And he comes up and he shakes, shakes my hand. He goes, I'm Arthur Kopit. And I go, no, you're not. I, I couldn't buy, it is stud. And he wrote about a, a little stutterer. So, um, I just did all of those things. I went on the road with, did you know Part Performing Arts Repertory Theater? Children's Theater, now known as Theater Works, playing Blackfish. The Indian with Daniel Boone, thirty six dates in five and a half months. And and I was I had these braids and the makeup and everything. And one day we played this elementary school. And all the kids are going, I want to see the Indian. I want to see the Indian.

• 22:58Speaker 06

  And I had my makeup off and everything and they come out and the and all their all their faces were just. Ah, they were crestfallen. I go, sorry, it's I'm the.

• 23:06Alec Baldwin?

  I'm the Indian.

• 23:07Speaker 06

  I'm the Shapiro tribe, you know, so. And then I just, uh, did you know Practical Theatre Company? Ever hear of that?

• 23:14Alec Baldwin?

  No.

• 23:15Speaker 06

  In Chicago. Second City, next door to Second City was a little space called the E T C, which had people from Second City who were. Uh, you know, on the in the touring companies and and on the upper way. And they started a company called Practical Theatre Company. I went from New York to Chicago to do a show at their place. Second City saw me in that. I went on Second City and then. And then I went to Hollywood after four years, four and a half years.

• 23:37Alec Baldwin?

  What year?

• 23:38Speaker 06

  Eighty eight, eighty nine, yeah, somewhere there.

• 23:41Alec Baldwin?

  And when you get there, what was that like for you at your age?

• 23:44Speaker 06

  I'm one of the, I'm stupidly, I like auditioning.

• 23:48Alec Baldwin?

  Right.

• 23:48Speaker 06

  I love auditioning. An artist can work alone, a writer can work alone. But an actor, you go in front of a mirror, you can't do it alone. You you gotta you gotta act in front of people. So I loved pilot season. I loved it. You go into these rooms, there's old friends. I, you know, it's not in in New York, you pass old friends. In L A, you see them in the audition room. I used to have pilot season after pilot season. I didn't really because I usually got the job. I don't mean to be like that, but during the pilot season, I got a pilot.

• 24:20Alec Baldwin?

  They wanted the funny.

• 24:21Speaker 06

  That went to series. I was just lucky.

• 24:23Alec Baldwin?

  Yeah, I'm talented.

• 24:24Speaker 06

  But but my, thank you, but my first show was a drama because when I came out of Second City, I said. I don't want people to think of me as just funny. I want them to know I can act. So I did a Stephen Cannell show called Unsub. I call it unsub what unsub because I say unsub what unsub. So it was.

• 24:41Alec Baldwin?

  What did that mean?

• 24:42Speaker 06

  Short for unknown subject.

• 24:43Alec Baldwin?

  That was the name of the show, Unsub?

• 24:45Speaker 06

  Unsub.

• 24:45Alec Baldwin?

  It was like, why don't they just drive the fucking camera truck into the lake?

• 24:48Speaker 06

  You're right.

• 24:49Alec Baldwin?

  My god.

• 24:49Speaker 06

  But the word unsub, they were chasing unknown subjects. Whenever I see Peter Roth, you remember Peter Roth?

• 24:56Alec Baldwin?

  Of course.

• 24:56Speaker 06

  Whenever I see Peter Roth, he hugs me, he goes, "We were the first. We were the first procedural." And I'm not kidding.

• 25:02Alec Baldwin?

  Unsub.

• 25:03Speaker 06

  Unsub. Because usually, police shows went into their private lives. This was only about what they were doing.

• 25:11Alec Baldwin?

  The crime.

• 25:12Speaker 06

  The crime.

• 25:12Alec Baldwin?

  The work.

• 25:13Speaker 06

  Now, here was the first episode. Are you ready?

• 25:15Alec Baldwin?

  Yes.

• 25:16Speaker 06

  Paul Guilfoyle, wonderful actor.

• 25:17Alec Baldwin?

  Love Guilfoyle.

• 25:18Speaker 06

  Okay, Guilfoyle plays a cobbler, a shoemaker, who puts razor blades in the heels of women's shoes. When they try them on, they bend over in pain and he stabs them in the back of the neck with an awl. Okay, so this isn't in the eighties, okay? So he comes running home to his mother, Grace Zabriskie, the great Grace Zabriskie, who's lying in a bathtub with her legs spread. And he comes in, he goes, "Mother, ma- mother, mother, mother, I've done something bad." Okay, this was the first episode.

• 25:48Alec Baldwin?

  Yeah.

• 25:49Speaker 06

  Brandon Tartikoff had gone to lunch with Stephen Cannell. He had two writers, Steve Kronish and, oh, I can't remember the other guy's name. And they had created a show called Wise Guy. So Cannell goes to Tartikoff and says, "I got a show for you about the guys who chase serial killers." He thought he was getting, what, an A-team? He thought he was gonna get another A-team.

• 26:12Alec Baldwin?

  Pity the fool.

• 26:13Speaker 06

  He sees the first episode with the killer. It happens to see it the night after Geraldo Rivera had a show on about witchcraft. It was on NBC. And the reviewers said, "This is the bottom of network TV. It can never go lower." And Tartikoff is getting attacked. He sees this episode the next day in the screening room. Midway through, he stands up and he goes, "What the fuck are you trying to do? Bring down this network single-handedly?" So Cannell knew the show was off, but we did 11 episodes.

• 26:45Alec Baldwin?

  How was the Carol Burnett experience?

• 26:48Speaker 06

  Oh, that was the greatest.

• 26:48Alec Baldwin?

  It was great.

• 26:49Speaker 06

  Well, let me tell you about Carol Burnett. I worship her.

• 26:52Alec Baldwin?

  Yep.

• 26:52Speaker 06

  So I go in for the audition. I had done a show called An Episode of Anything But Love with Jamie Lee Curtis and Richard Lewis. And the producer of that says, you know, he's great. Instead of the casting director coming out to get me in, I'm just, I'm the only one there, out in this hallway. Instead of the casting actor going, "Richard, come on in." Carol Burnett comes out to the hallway and says, "Richard, come on in, let's play." And I said, "Well, that's how you run Hollywood." "We hear you're good, let's see your best." Not, "Come on in and show us, show us what you can do." It's, "Come on in and let's play. Let's see if we can have you at your best."

• 27:35Speaker 06

  And I went in, I read with her, and she, of course, is gracious, of course, has showed her kindness. And I said, "All right, I will."

• 27:45Alec Baldwin?

  Actor Richard Kind. If you're enjoying this conversation, tell a friend. And be sure to follow Here's the Thing on the iHeart Radio app, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. When we come back, Richard Kind shares one of the best pieces of acting advice he's ever been given.

• 28:17Speaker 00

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• 28:32Speaker 05

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• 29:07Speaker 00

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• 29:45Speaker 02

  Hey, it's Niall Rogers, host of Before the Moment, a Lincoln original series. I'm driving across the country, meeting some of today's most fascinating artists. We're exploring the stories before the moment that changed everything. This week, I'm joined by my friend, John Legend. What still makes you just sit down at the piano? If you sat down at 9:00 a.m. and then at noon, you had a full song that you recorded and put in your voice recorder or you recorded at your studio, you just created something brand new that didn't exist when you woke up. What a beautiful feeling it is. I'm always excited to write something new. I've been writing for Broadway, which has been a new challenge with new collaborators

• 30:29Speaker 02

  and these amazing performers who are triple threats, who can sing and dance and act and do all these amazing things. And I want to keep feeling that. And so that means not resting on my laurels, going out there and continuing to create something new. Experience Before the Moment, a Lincoln original series on the iHeart Radio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 30:55Alec Baldwin?

  I'm Alec Baldwin, and you're listening to Here's the Thing. We all know and love Richard Kind's long-running characters, Paul Lasseter from Spin City and Cousin Andy from Curb Your Enthusiasm. Another role Kind is famous for is that of Dr. Mark Devineau on Paul Reiser's Mad About You, but surprisingly only for its first season.

• 31:19Speaker 06

  Well, I got fired.

• 31:21Alec Baldwin?

  You're fired?

• 31:21Speaker 06

  Without knowing it. I started off as a recurring character. We were on every episode and we said, well, you gotta make us a regular. There's a big difference in pay.

• 31:29Alec Baldwin?

  Sure.

• 31:30Speaker 06

  So after about six episodes, they made us regulars. And then we asked them in April, am I gonna be coming back? Yes, of course. I go do The Music Man out in North Carolina in summers, because I always do theater during the summer. So I'm guaranteed. I don't have to go make a lot of money because I got a show on the air. I get a call from Paul's manager that I'm not coming back. And I start to cry. It's on a payphone where I'm living out in North Carolina. That, you know, we're sharing, and I get a phone call. And I go, why? And they go, well, we just don't think that you're working on it. I was the only person who was let go. And I said, I don't understand. And they go, well, we just don't think that you're right right now for the show.

• 32:15Speaker 06

  And I just, and I didn't call Paul, but, and then Danny, who's a great guy. But he did not stand up for me. He thinks I'm funny. He thinks I'm great, but he did not stand up for me.

• 32:27Alec Baldwin?

  This is who?

• 32:28Speaker 06

  The guy who created the show with Paul. And Paul and I, I have made up with both of them.

• 32:36Alec Baldwin?

  Yeah.

• 32:36Speaker 06

  In ways that we didn't even properly make up, but I should, I should be mad at both of them.

• 32:43Alec Baldwin?

  Well, listen, we all, I was, the biggest movie star in the world at that time wanted me to do a movie with him. And there was another guy they wanted. They had cast this guy and then he couldn't, there was a conflict in his schedule. He couldn't do the movie. The TV show he's doing wouldn't let him out. So they call me and they go, it's you. It's you, Bobola. The director, the writer, the producer, the star, they call me. Oh, they're all in a conference.

• 33:08Speaker 06

  Verbal blowjob.

• 33:09Alec Baldwin?

  They're all in a conference. Oh, through the phone. Oh, my God. And I'm sitting in my car in like West Hollywood. I'm gonna go buy like t-shirts in some fucking store there. And on Melrose, and they call me and go, it's you. And my agent goes, it's you. They're gonna do the movie with you. Within a week, nobody calls me. Nobody says, they say, you're out. They blow my deal. They completely dynamite me because the guy, they make him available. The other guy comes back again, which was their desire. And you never want a director looking down the lens wishing somebody else was there. I've been there before.

• 33:36Speaker 06

  I, I, I don't like it. I mean, on, on a, on a series, you can't quit, but they can fire you.

• 33:42Alec Baldwin?

  Right. Now, when you go, this is always intriguing to me because when I did Thirty Rock with Tina.

• 33:48Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 33:48Alec Baldwin?

  You know, Tina was the one who, in whatever language she used, she impressed upon me. The network's harder. It's harder to make it funny on network. You can't say fuck. The girl can't come out of the cake with no top on.

• 33:59Speaker 06

  She's right, she's right.

• 34:00Alec Baldwin?

  Cable and streaming are different fish and, and to make it really funny and edgy on network is harder. Your career transitions, Carol Burnett and Mad About You and Spin City for years. And then you go into Curb. Describe that arc for me. Do you miss the old ways? Or do you like being able to say whatever you want to say on streaming TV?

• 34:19Speaker 06

  Gee, that's an interesting question that I don't know whether I, I can answer like. I just did an episode of Night Court. I don't think you need to say whatever you're referring to.

• 34:29Alec Baldwin?

  Right.

• 34:30Speaker 06

  In order to be funny, but I, I will tell you where I did miss it is right now I like doing single camera better than four camera. So having just done Night Court, which I enjoyed. And the cast is phenomenal and the show's funny, everything like that. But I did a show called East New York last year.

• 34:47Alec Baldwin?

  Mm-hmm.

• 34:47Speaker 06

  Which was well-regarded, highly rated. The cast, Jimmy Smits, Amanda Warren, if you know Amanda. It, it's a great, great cast. I missed cursing there.

• 34:59Alec Baldwin?

  You did?

• 35:00Speaker 06

  Yes, I did.

• 35:00Alec Baldwin?

  But it's real.

• 35:01Speaker 06

  But, but for network, it was as gritty as a show could be à la NYPD Blue. Because it's, was written and created by an NYPD Blue alum, a guy named Bill Finkelstein.

• 35:13Alec Baldwin?

  So you think it warranted that?

• 35:15Speaker 06

  It should, but it's network TV and they, there are certain FCC rules.

• 35:19Alec Baldwin?

  It's a dramatic show.

• 35:20Speaker 06

  But it was, oh, yeah.

• 35:21Alec Baldwin?

  Did you like, I'm not just saying this to be kind. There are people who I think are very funny. Who you'd see. That they had a, I mean, I see what I see. This is a very subjective process, but I mean, where you take Mathau, and Mathau is a comic genius, and he plays a straight, I put you in that category. You can do, you can do anything.

• 35:40Speaker 06

  You're very.

• 35:40Alec Baldwin?

  You can, because you're, because you have, you're commanding, you're, you're articulate, you're beyond funny, but I mean, you, you drive, we, we used to say on Thirty Rock all the time, you give the scene the stick to the end.

• 35:51Speaker 06

  Oh, that's a, yes.

• 35:52Alec Baldwin?

  You give this, you don't pause, people are like, just keep, we've got to keep driving, driving, go, go, go.

• 35:55Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 35:56Alec Baldwin?

  And you have that velocity and that pace of a very smart person. And, and I put you in that category where you can do the drama as well.

• 36:02Speaker 06

  Well, I, I recently did.

• 36:03Alec Baldwin?

  Why don't you do more drama?

• 36:04Speaker 06

  Um, I, I, who the fuck is gonna hire me?

• 36:08Alec Baldwin?

  Somebody smart.

• 36:09Speaker 06

  Well, that's right, but you don't always get that in Hollywood. Now, here's something that I did do, and it's, we're trying to shop it now. I should send it to you. It's called Hitman. Do you know who Lawrence Block is?

• 36:19Alec Baldwin?

  Yes.

• 36:20Speaker 06

  Lawrence Block wrote a series of books, three books called Hitman. Each chapter is a hit. But it's a guy who looks like me, maybe lives on Thirty-Eighth between second and third.

• 36:30Alec Baldwin?

  Murray Hill.

• 36:31Speaker 06

  Exactly. A guy who you would, who's.

• 36:32Alec Baldwin?

  Turtle Bay.

• 36:33Speaker 06

  And is a killer, the way some guys are plumbers and some guys repair cars. He knows that the hit's gonna be done. It's not that he's amoral, he just does his job. And that's the kind of character it is. There is not a funny moment in it. I'm.

• 36:48Alec Baldwin?

  Are you gonna do it, you think?

• 36:49Speaker 06

  We did a twenty-minute pilot, and it's pretty good. Friends of yours, Peter Riegert, Karen Allen, they're both in it.

• 36:55Alec Baldwin?

  I worship Karen.

• 36:56Speaker 06

  Oh, she's the best, the best, a great, beautiful, funny, nice, great.

• 36:59Alec Baldwin?

  I love Riegert as an actor too, but I worship Karen.

• 37:01Speaker 06

  And, uh, Bill Sadler, you know, Bill Sadler?

• 37:04Alec Baldwin?

  Yeah, of course.

• 37:05Speaker 06

  They are, they're in it. And I am very quiet, and not loud, and serious, and it's very good.

• 37:11Alec Baldwin?

  Straightforward. Let's talk about Big Knife. Who invited you to the party there? You weren't involved with Joanne when they did it in Williams.

• 37:17Speaker 06

  Yes, I did it with Joanne, and Joanne, Joanne wanted you. Talked about it.

• 37:21Alec Baldwin?

  Who played the part?

• 37:22Speaker 06

  Scott Cohen.

• 37:23Alec Baldwin?

  Played the lead role?

• 37:24Speaker 06

  Yeah. Yeah, and it was wonderful. And Chris Reeve's wife, Dana.

• 37:27Alec Baldwin?

  Dana.

• 37:28Speaker 06

  And she was magnificent. She was great. I thank God. She had no idea. You talk about taking a gamble. She had no idea who I was. No idea in the world. So I go to the

• 37:41Alec Baldwin?

  Isn't that nice?

• 37:41Speaker 06

  Paul in her apartment. And I go up there and that's where I read. And I read the thing and thank God she didn't know me. If I'm mad about you or Spin City or any of that stuff, so that I could be this character. And I came in as a blank slate. And she gave me the job. I was, I couldn't believe it.

• 37:59Alec Baldwin?

  Do you know, when I'm doing Thirty Rock and we get toward the end and I, and I, this was

• 38:04Speaker 06

  And how did Tina ask you to do it? Why?

• 38:07Alec Baldwin?

  I think that she jokingly said something to Lorne about me, or he said something. It's always between the two of them.

• 38:12Speaker 06

  Yeah, but Lorne, Lorne, Lorne knows how funny you are.

• 38:15Alec Baldwin?

  And Lorne wanted me to come. He said, would you come and do the show? And I did not want to do a series because I was getting divorced and my daughter was in LA. And she was very young. And Lorne said, I'll make the schedule suit you. You'll be able to go to LA every weekend or every other weekend. So they made the schedule very convenient for me. It was almost a joke. And I went and did the show. I remember toward the end, I mean, there were many moments that was just very affecting to me throughout. I mean, many that I thought to myself, these guys are just the funniest writers. But toward the end, I'm sitting there and they go, we want to ask your ex-wife. They're going to have Kenneth the page. I, Jack Donaghy, makes him the president of NBC Universal. I'm going to make him the president. And his father has died and his stepmother's going to fly up to New York from Georgia to visit him.

• 39:01Alec Baldwin?

  And it's my ex-wife, Kim Basinger, is going to play the part. And they're going to have me fall in love with his stepmother and marry my ex-wife on the show.

• 39:10Speaker 06

  Jesus.

• 39:11Alec Baldwin?

  And Kenneth becomes the president and he becomes my stepson-in-law. And the way this all came together, I was in tears laughing how amazing this was. But then Kim didn't want to do the part.

• 39:23Speaker 06

  Kim just said no.

• 39:23Alec Baldwin?

  She just said no.

• 39:24Speaker 06

  All right, I'm going to tell you something. I once got the great honor of introducing you at some benefit of some sort. And I remember saying, I can't say to your face because we're peers, we're friends, and you don't do that. But you are phenomenal.

• 39:41Alec Baldwin?

  Oh, you're very good.

• 39:42Speaker 06

  No, you're a, you're, you're great. And this was years ago, and you're only greater. This is before you did 30 Rock.

• 39:48Alec Baldwin?

  Right.

• 39:49Speaker 06

  You are precise, you are great, you are, you are just dead on. It's enough that you're handsome, it's enough you're charismatic, you're so good in the roles.

• 39:56Alec Baldwin?

  No, please don't go, I'm getting it.

• 39:59Speaker 06

  But that you are so good at podcasts. The, the episode you did on the garbage.

• 40:06Alec Baldwin?

  Uh huh, that was a good one.

• 40:07Speaker 06

  I've listened to it three, four times. I tell everybody to listen to it, it is so fascinating.

• 40:12Alec Baldwin?

  What's been more difficult for you? The lifestyle and what it's done in your, how it's played out in your life?

• 40:17Speaker 06

  Never, that's not hard at all.

• 40:18Alec Baldwin?

  Family, kids, all that, so being away, traveling, or the work itself?

• 40:23Speaker 06

  Neither is hard. I, I mean, you have Daniel Day Lewis, who submerges himself into the character, which I don't believe at all, but he sits alone and he does that. Michael Stuhlbarg, I've seen do stuff like that. I show up and I go, today I'm this guy, let's play pretend, and I play pretend.

• 40:42Alec Baldwin?

  It works for you great, I'm not, I'm saying everybody has to do the same thing.

• 40:44Speaker 06

  Yeah, but I, but will, I do, I try to, I do turn off my phone on the set. First of all, I like talking to people, and the people on the set are more interesting.

• 40:53Alec Baldwin?

  I want to stay connected to the set and the world I'm in.

• 40:55Speaker 06

  Yes, there was a great acting teacher who I was lucky to have, Harry Mastro George.

• 41:00Alec Baldwin?

  Uh huh, I heard the name.

• 41:01Speaker 06

  He, he, he was great, Ray Liotta took from him a lot, and, and, anyway, he's pretty great. And he just said, just go play pretend. When you see kids out on a playground, doing Cowboys and Indians, they, they go, what tribe was I from? Where, what, what state, where's, what state I went, no, they go play Cowboys and Indians. And that's.

• 41:18Alec Baldwin?

  I'm gonna quote you, I mean, that's a great thing. When we play, when we play Astros, which Apollo mission is this?

• 41:24Speaker 06

  Yeah, right, but, but in my head, in my head, I imagine. In my head, I've made decisions. I haven't done research, but I have made decisions in my head, this is where I'm from.

• 41:36Alec Baldwin?

  You're not Michael Dorsey, you're not Dustin's character.

• 41:39Speaker 06

  Right, right, exactly, exactly.

• 41:40Alec Baldwin?

  I was a beefsteak tomato.

• 41:44Speaker 06

  But, but, but he said you have to go over the script. All the answers are in the script. That's what Harry said. Every answer you want is in the script. And that's what he do. You pour over the script. Anthony Hopkins used to do that. Read the script thirty times.

• 41:58Alec Baldwin?

  Right.

• 41:59Speaker 06

  He would read it thirty, forty times. By the way, you want a great story? My favorite showbiz story. I know where we're going at. About Tom McGowan.

• 42:06Alec Baldwin?

  Let's go out on Tom McGowan.

• 42:07Speaker 06

  You will go out on Tom McGowan. A great character actor, great guy. There's a show called La Bette. Friend of yours, Ron Silver is the lead.

• 42:16Alec Baldwin?

  Mm-hmm.

• 42:17Speaker 06

  Okay? Ron Silver, a week before they open, decides to quit. He doesn't want to open the show. Tom McGowan is the understudy. They go to Tom McGowan, they go, "Do you know the show?" He says, "Of course I do." And it's a forty-minute monologue, you know, La Bette. "Do you know the show?" "Yes." "You can go on." "Yes." They go, "We are going to ask Kevin Kline if he wants to take over for Ron Silver. If he does, we're gonna close the show, rehearse for four weeks, and open with Kevin Kline. If Kevin Kline says no, we're gonna open on schedule in a week on Broadway with you. Can you do it?" Says, "Of course." He goes home to call his mother.

• 43:02Speaker 06

  He says, "Mom, they're gonna ask Kevin Kline if he wants to do it. If he says no, I'm opening next week as the lead in this Broadway show." His mother goes, "Oh, I hope Kevin Kline says yes. I love him."

• 43:22Speaker 06

  It's my favorite showbiz story.

• 43:23Alec Baldwin?

  You are somebody who has that thing. You come on screen and everybody's happy.

• 43:28Speaker 06

  That's nice.

• 43:28Alec Baldwin?

  They're happy to see you. They know they're gonna laugh. They know they're gonna think. They know that you're an intelligent comic actor, mostly comic, but you do drama as well. But you're somebody who, the minute you come on screen, everybody's happy. They're happy to be with you. They wanna be with you, and that's why you, you need to do this until you're ninety-five.

• 43:49Speaker 06

  Not what I will. But it's true, I, I love it.

• 43:53Alec Baldwin?

  I think you're amazing, you're so talented. Everybody in this business loves you. Everybody in the business loves you, that's a big thing. They respect you. They think you can do anything.

• 44:01Speaker 06

  They make me cry.

• 44:02Alec Baldwin?

  Well, don't cry. Anyway, I love you.

• 44:04Speaker 06

  Thank you, I love you very, very much, I love you.

• 44:11Alec Baldwin?

  My thanks to Richard Kind. This episode was produced by Kathleen Russo, Zach McNeese and Maureen Hoban. Our engineer is Frank Imperial. Our social media manager is Danielle Gingrich. Here's the Thing is recorded at CDM Studios. I'm Alec Baldwin. Here's the Thing is brought to you by iHeart Radio.

• 44:53Speaker 03

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• 46:21Speaker 00

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.