A Beige New World

What's your favorite color? If you ask the algorithm, the answer is probably beige. The internet loves neutrals. Aesthetic coffee shop videos feature white walls and minimalist decor. Influencers film from houses decked out with all the beige fixings. When you shop online, you'll be presented with products in a wide range of bland colors — from eggshell, to taupe, to... slightly darker taupe. So where did all the color go? Hayley DeRoche, a librarian and writer known as SadBeige on Tiktok, has been watching this unfold for a while. Hosts Ben and Amory talk with Hayley about the internet's love affair with beige and discuss her new book “Dress Your Baby In Sage and Taupe: A Handbook for the Sad Beige Parent.” https://www.amazon.com/Dress-Your-Baby-Sage-Taupe/dp/1324112042 Show notes: SadBeige https://www.tiktok.com/@sadbeige (TikTok) The tyranny of the algorithm: why every coffee shop looks the same https://www.theguardian.com/news/2024/jan/16/the-tyranny-of-the-algorithm-why-every-coffee-shop-looks-the-same (The Guardian) You read that white: Pantone's 2026 Color of the Year is 'Cloud Dancer https://www.npr.org/2025/12/04/nx-s1-5632651/pantones-color-of-the-year-2026-white' (NPR) Credits: This episode was produced by Kalyani Saxena, and co-hosted by Amory Sivertson and Ben Brock Johnson. It was edited by Meg Cramer. Mix and sound design by Marquis Neal. Sponsor message: 🌏 EXCLUSIVE NordVPN Deal ➼ https://nordvpn.com/ENDLESS Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee 👍

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Support for this podcast comes from Is Business Broken?, a podcast from the Marotra Institute at BU Questrom School of Business. A recent episode explores how AI is reshaping our schools. Stick around until the end of this podcast to preview the episode.

• 0:17Speaker 01

  Support for Endless Thread comes from MathWorks, creator of MATLAB and Simulink software to design and develop engineered systems, accelerating the pace of discovery in engineering and science. Learn more at mathworks.com.

• 0:33Speaker 02

  Hey Spotify listeners. When you travel with American Airlines, you'll enjoy comfort and convenience at every altitude. Before takeoff, unwind in the Admirals Club Lounge with curated self-serve offerings of hearty bites and refreshments. In flight, stay connected with high-speed Wi-Fi, sponsored by AT&T. Your journey is designed to feel easy from the moment you check in to the moment you arrive. No matter where you're going, American gets you there. Book now at aa.com.

• 0:59Speaker 02

  WBUR Podcasts, Boston.

• 1:08Speaker 03

  Welcome to Werner Herzog's new line of children's clothing, sad beige clothes for sad beige children.

• 1:21Ben Brock Johnson?

  This is Werner Herzog. Okay, rather, it's an impression of the German filmmaker Werner Herzog by Richmond, Virginian Hayley De Roche.

• 1:30Speaker 05

  I am a librarian slash poet slash writer.

• 1:34Amory Sivertson?

  Hayley is also very online, where she spends a lot of time thinking and posting about color.

• 1:41Ben Brock Johnson?

  If you could give Richmond, Virginia, a single color, what would it be?

• 1:45Speaker 05

  Ooh, that's a good question. I think, right now, it would have to be yellow-green, like, well, I guess, yeah, yellowish-green for the pollen.

• 1:56Ben Brock Johnson?

  It's probably more accurate to say Hayley spends a lot of time thinking about one specific color: the neutral, inoffensive, and frankly, a little boring, beige.

• 2:08Speaker 03

  Beige, beige, beige, beige, beige clothes, beige children.

• 2:15Amory Sivertson?

  On TikTok, Haley's known by the handle Sad Beige. She makes videos, like the one we just heard, poking fun at children's clothing that leans aggressively neutral. I'm talking eggshell, taupe, slightly darker than taupe. What are some other neutral colors, Ben?

• 2:34Ben Brock Johnson?

  Oh, man, chestnut, beach sand?

• 2:40Amory Sivertson?

  Yeah, now we're talking.

• 2:42Ben Brock Johnson?

  Beach sand, driftwood.

• 2:44Amory Sivertson?

  Anyway, while we're dancing around here, the big question is...

• 2:50Ben Brock Johnson?

  Where did all the colors that I can't name go?

• 2:58Amory Sivertson?

  This question has been on our minds beyond sad beige clothing for kids. So who are the tastemakers and trendsetters when it comes to color more broadly?

• 3:09Ben Brock Johnson?

  Some would say Pantone, a design company known for its proprietary color matching system. Each December, Pantone announces a color of the year.

• 3:19Amory Sivertson?

  Past year's colors include viva magenta.

• 3:22Ben Brock Johnson?

  Viva la magenta!

• 3:25Amory Sivertson?

  Living coral, marsala, radiant orchid. The 2026 color of the year? Cloud dancer.

• 3:37Ben Brock Johnson?

  Hold me closer, cloud dancer. That's the only reaction I have to that. Wait, I thought it was white.

• 3:45Amory Sivertson?

  Yeah, that's what cloud dancer is, basically.

• 3:50Amory Sivertson?

  Ding ding ding!

• 3:52Ben Brock Johnson?

  It's white? The color is white?

• 3:55Amory Sivertson?

  It's like, well, no, they would say it's cloud dancer, but it's basically white. So some people thought that this was a big joke, but Pantone was quite serious about the choice, describing cloud dancer as, quote, "a lofty white that serves as a symbol of calming influence in a society rediscovering the value of quiet reflection."

• 4:22Ben Brock Johnson?

  It is very hard not to react to the idea as lofty white being an influence in society, but I'm just gonna let it keep going and say woof. Even if the colorless color of the year was a tongue in cheek trolling moment, which apparently it wasn't. This trend towards neutrals has been a long time brewing, a long time neutraling, a long time.

• 4:46Amory Sivertson?

  Stirring, paint mixing.

• 4:48Ben Brock Johnson?

  Paint mixing from minimalist coffee shops that remind me of Brooklyn all the time to the all white kitchen trend.

• 4:57Amory Sivertson?

  To fast food chains that have started to look like corporate office buildings. And yes, to kids clothing, all the way down to teeny tiny beige onesies.

• 5:07Ben Brock Johnson?

  No, not the onesies, although cloud dancer makes more sense when it's in relation to children. So, you know, we wanted to talk to sad beige Haley DeRouche, who's been watching this unfold for a while and who has a book inspired by her TikTok series called Dress Your Baby in Sage and Tote, A Handbook for the Sad Beige Parent.

• 5:31Speaker 05

  So I started making jokes and thinking about beige when I was actually just shopping online for a baby shower gift and I came across these stacking cups, like those, you know, the ones that you give your baby in the bath or something like that. And they're usually a rainbow color with like every cup being a different color. And then the ones that were being marketed to me were all different shades of beige. So you had like fawn and chestnut. It grew.

• 6:01Speaker 05

  And it made me laugh, but the thing that really tipped it over the edge for me was the marketing imagery that went with it because it was these like very wise, sagely looking children, just kind of staring at the cups. And I think what they were trying to get across was like, your child will be like, you know, wise beyond their years if they play with these stacking cups. What it kind of translated as on screen was just kind of sad.

• 6:26Speaker 05

  And from there, I just started seeing beige everywhere and here I am.

• 6:32Ben Brock Johnson?

  Is there any other way that you would describe sad beige to someone who doesn't know anything about what sad beige is? Like, imagine a time traveler arrived who doesn't know what the internet is. What is sad, what is sad beige the color for you? What does that aesthetic look like to you?

• 6:50Speaker 05

  Sad beige is like if your whole world turned to oatmeal and khaki and camel. And the feeling of just being in a monochrome environment where it's very clean, very sparse. And the overall mood is definitely supposed to be calm, but it's also lacking a certain amount of joy and whimsy and just difference. So it's very similar. It's very same, very cerebral.

• 7:21Ben Brock Johnson?

  Did you have a band in middle school called Khaki Oatmeal Camel?

• 7:27Speaker 05

  No, I should have. I need to go back in time. Maybe I can swap places with the time traveler.

• 7:32Ben Brock Johnson?

  This is so weird to me, though. I mean, I grew up, so I was an eighties baby.

• 7:38Ben Brock Johnson?

  And when I grew up, you know, bright colors were everywhere in the nineties. It went kind of neon. I can still remember getting like, uh, getting the sunglasses from Back to the Future two as a, as a goodie from Pizza Hut. And they had these like funky sunglasses that were very neon. And that's the world I feel like I grew up in. But that's not the world that I feel like we exist in now when we walk into coffee shops or, you know, places to buy clothing that all ends up looking kind of the same. Can you talk about where this came from?

• 8:19Ben Brock Johnson?

  And then I, I think we want to maybe get into the baby clothes bit and listen to some sound.

• 8:24Speaker 05

  Yeah. I think part of it, it's, it's kind of a multi-layered thing that I think is happening. And I say this as a comedian first, not a researcher and not an academic. But what I see happening is kind of this meeting of internet culture being very flattened. You have influencers who want the products that they're shilling. To pop on the screen and to do that, you need to have a background that isn't popping off the screen. So you need that contrast. So having a beige home is really good for selling things when your home is your studio. So you have that going on. But then you also have, of course, the Kardashians and they have, you know, Kim Kardashian's line. It's

• 9:07Speaker 05

  very, very sleek, very beige. You have places like the Row with the Olsen Twins. That's also very sleek, very modern, very beige for a lot of their stuff. And that's very, very high end. So I think you have this kind of meeting where you have the high end trickling down to the middle class that's online and with influencers. So you have that. And then you also have the Montessori, which is telling parents, in order to be a good parent, you need to have the best toys for your children, the best clothing. And that's timeless to a certain extent. And then when you add in like trad wife culture that's on the rise, which is very prairie in its aesthetic, I think that that's also a contributing factor as well. So there's really a lot going on in my opinion.

• 9:52Amory Sivertson?

  I'm curious about the narrative behind the reason for the beige, though, because I'm hearing two things. One is that the beige is kind of, it's calming for your child, that this is a calming color palette. And the other is much more aesthetic, the aesthetic of the home, the idea that these toys, those stacking cups, if they're bright colors, that doesn't blend in with the rest of your home and it just looks tacky or chaotic or something. So you're a parent, yes?

• 10:25Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 10:25Amory Sivertson?

  Do you feel like there's any weight behind the beige color palette being calmer or a better experience for the child?

• 10:36Speaker 05

  I don't know that it's a universal experience that a child who has like all beige toys is going to be a calm child. I think, and I kind of talk about this in my book too, that the child you get is the child you get. And there is going to be a child who is very calm, who lives in a beige environment. And there's going to be a child who lives in a beige environment who is just bananas. And I think we as parents like to attribute our children's, what we perceive to be good nature or good habits or good behavior as the result of our choices. Because that feels good and parenting is hard and you want to, you know, you take the wins where you can, right?

• 11:16Speaker 05

  As to whether or not there's any truth in that, it might be a little, but I think a lot of it comes down to us wanting our children to behave a certain way. And when they do, and that aligns with what we have done, then we can pat ourselves on the back. I don't think that, you know, being subjected to a bounce house that's red and green is really any different than a bounce house that's beige or opal.

• 11:45Ben Brock Johnson?

  You have been playing with this on TikTok. You frequently review kids' beige clothes in the voice of German director beloved Werner Herzog.

• 12:00Speaker 07

  This one I call the velvet flare of despair, for she knows that sheep farming is a rough life, one that will bring many a callous to the hands of the heart.

• 12:10Ben Brock Johnson?

  Solid Werner impression.

• 12:13Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah. Yeah. You should hire me as a backup.

• 12:20Amory Sivertson?

  What about beige clothing summons the spirit of Werner Herzog for you?

• 12:25Speaker 05

  I just thought when I was making this, who would be the worst possible person to be a spokesperson for a fake children's company? And he was just top of the list. And then I was off to the races.

• 12:40Ben Brock Johnson?

  Werner Herzog does seem like an odd choice to be the face of a children's clothing line. But it actually also makes a weird amount of sense, right? Like, at first blush, everything Verona says seems serious and weighty. But if you're familiar with this work, it's actually kind of ridiculous and funny even when it's not trying to be.

• 13:01Amory Sivertson?

  There is something serious about the beige aesthetic, though. Haley says that online, it's become a sort of class signal.

• 13:10Speaker 05

  So what I'm seeing online is it kind of the trickle down from The Row and from Kim Kardashian, rather high-end brands, down to the peasants like myself. And so I think that when that happens, it just kind of becomes a natural signifier of class. And also, especially when it's tied to things like Montessori or Waldorf, you also are signaling that you buy into a certain aesthetic for education for your child and that you can afford it in a lot of cases. And so I think that there's just a lot of signaling going on with what you dress your

• 13:52Speaker 05

  baby in, what stroller you're using for your baby, what baby carrier if you're using wraps, which wraps. There's a huge online market for very specific woven wraps, and they'll have limited editions and all of this stuff. And I mean, I fell into that myself when my kids were little. There was a wrap that I so desperately wanted, and it was just impossible to find, and it became like my white whale. And it's like, did it matter in the end? No. But it felt good to find something and want it and seek it and have some sort of purpose in the midst of the chaos of parenting, which isn't necessarily a class signifier.

• 14:36Speaker 05

  But I do understand why people latch on to things that they can control, and image is a big one.

• 14:42Amory Sivertson?

  In my mind, it also kind of, there's a crossover with minimalism, you know, not having a bunch of excess stuff. And so the idea, like the stacking cups in particular, the idea that toys would become beige is a way to help them sort of blend into the background so that visually there's less stuff, even if physically there isn't.

• 15:07Speaker 05

  Absolutely.

• 15:08Amory Sivertson?

  Does that, does that resonate? Or is it like, is there actually a connection between like the, like the minimalist lifestyle and the minimization of color diversity?

• 15:22Speaker 05

  I do think, yes, to a certain degree. I also wonder if there's some greenwashing going on there where if you have toys that are very natural colors, even if they're plastic, they're less likely to call attention to themselves as like plastic junk.

• 15:37Amory Sivertson?

  Yeah, I'm, I confess, I am guilty of coveting the, the beige stacking cups. I am only a parent to a, to a rabbit, a pet rabbit, who loves those little stacking cups. And I have the brightly colored ones, um, cause I didn't know the, the more neutral toned ones existed. And then when I saw the more neutral toned ones, I was like, oh, that would look nicer. Um, so I think I'm, I think I'm guilty of this, even though I am a fan of color. I promise. It's just, I don't know. I was, I was shocked to hear that example and see a finger being slowly pointed at myself.

• 16:14Speaker 05

  Have you, have you, now that you've wanted the sad beige stacking cups for your rabbit, have you considered what preschool you'll be sending them to? Because there may be a six to seven year waitlist and the tuition is going to be, um, six times more than you thought.

• 16:30Amory Sivertson?

  Noted. Thank you for opening my eyes to this.

• 16:35Ben Brock Johnson?

  Coming up, Emery decides what preschool to send her rabbit to.

• 16:40Amory Sivertson?

  Nope. But we do think more deeply about what our collective embrace of beige says about us. More in a minute.

• 17:16Speaker 00

  Support for this podcast comes from Is Business Broken?, a podcast from the Marotra Institute at BU Questram School of Business. How should employers measure real skills in the age of AI?

• 17:29Speaker 08

  Instead of observing the final artifact, instead of observing the final essay or the final program, observe the entire process of creation.

• 17:38Speaker 00

  Follow Is Business Broken? wherever you get your podcasts and stick around until the end of this podcast for a preview of a recent episode on rethinking academic and job assessment when AI can do the work.

• 17:56Speaker 02

  Hey Spotify listeners. When you travel with American Airlines, you'll enjoy comfort and convenience at every altitude. Before takeoff, unwind in the Admirals Club Lounge with curated self-serve offerings of hearty bites and refreshments. In flight, stay connected with high-speed Wi-Fi, sponsored by AT&T. Your journey is designed to feel easy from the moment you check in to the moment you arrive. No matter where you're going, American gets you there. Book now at aa.com.

• 18:24Ben Brock Johnson?

  There comes a time in every beige-loving person's life when they have to ask themselves, do I actually love beige? Or do I want to be seen as the kind of person who loves beige? Who is that person, anyway? Who am I? Et cetera, et cetera. We asked Haley about a very particular beige-loving contingency online.

• 18:46Amory Sivertson?

  I feel like you referenced trad wives earlier in the conversation, and I wonder what the connection is there between sort of like a whole lifestyle that you see represented for trad wives and this sad beige trend.

• 19:06Speaker 05

  I think it kind of goes back to signaling, if not class, then a specific lifestyle. And especially when you're looking at a lot of like influencers being the ones to really drive that, then

• 19:20Speaker 05

  They have an aesthetic that they have to have because that's really all you have going for you online, like images, everything when you're an influencer and your main platform is image based. So latching on to the kind of the prairie, the simplicity, the homestead vibe is very beige, if not beige, adjacent, because it is kind of that same like homespun look. And so I think that there's, there's that at play as well, where like people want to look, whether it's eco-friendly, or of a certain class, or of a certain aesthetic

• 19:58Speaker 05

  that's tied to like a lifestyle. The image is really more important than how that item came to be, if that makes sense. Like, there are some beige clothing and toy companies that are very ethical and are doing things in a slow way, but there are just as many that are, you know, on Shein. You could easily get those for cheap and achieve the same look, and it's not always easy to tell which is which.

• 20:29Ben Brock Johnson?

  So Kyle Chaka, the staff writer at The New Yorker, he's written a lot about this. He makes this argument that there's a sameness to our culture because over time, algorithms have like flattened our tastes and likes, showing us the same stuff over and over again. Wondering what your thoughts are there? Yeah? You, you give that a plus 100?

• 20:49Speaker 05

  I do, I do. And I think there's, there's a sameness. Everyone's getting a lot of the same stuff fed to them online, whether, you know, you can be in like bucket one, bucket two, bucket three, but they're all very similar products. You're all ultimately being fed kind of the same stuff. I talk a bit in my book, in a comedic sense, about algorithms as well. I actually have a couple pieces from the point of view of the algorithm as kind of an entity that's just insatiable and hungry for your eyes and your attention and your money. And the flattening, I think, just comes from

• 21:28Speaker 05

  Pushing this stuff out to as many people as possible. So being kind of same reaches a lot of people as opposed to being unique.

• 21:37Ben Brock Johnson?

  And is it being driven by the internet? Or is the internet just like reflecting it like Uber reflecting it? Do you know what I mean?

• 21:44Speaker 05

  Yeah, that's a good question. I don't know. I mean, it's almost chicken and egg, right?

• 21:50Ben Brock Johnson?

  Yeah.

• 21:51Speaker 05

  We have, we have become internet. And so is internet us?

• 21:57Ben Brock Johnson?

  We are internet. We are all.

• 21:58Speaker 05

  We are internet. Yes, we are all internet. Internet is us.

• 22:03Ben Brock Johnson?

  This is good for our robot synth band. Oatmeal Camel, whatever it was.

• 22:09Speaker 05

  Oatmeal Camel Kaki.

• 22:11Amory Sivertson?

  Oatmeal Camel Kaki. I love oatmeal. I think I, I think I might be guilty of loving some beige things, which.

• 22:20Speaker 05

  Oatmeal's delicious.

• 22:21Amory Sivertson?

  I'll do some reflecting on after this conversation.

• 22:23Ben Brock Johnson?

  Well, no beige, but that's the thing. That's the whole thing. Emery is like beige is a satisfying. It's like the color of, to me, it's the color of something. Maybe it means different things to different people, but to me it is the color of something that is just slightly dirty in a good way. That's, that's, that's how I, that's, that's how I experience beige.

• 22:46Speaker 05

  I think sad beige is definitely a cut above like landlord gray or the millennial gray, as I like to call it, but I think that's much more landlord driven than millennial.

• 22:57Amory Sivertson?

  Oh, man, don't get me started on millennial gray. I could write a whole book about that.

• 23:02Ben Brock Johnson?

  I would read that book as long as it was very, very short because we've talked about book reading and how bad I am at it. But speaking of this, we asked Haley for a little peek into her book.

• 23:14Amory Sivertson?

  Dress your baby in sage and taupe, a handbook for the sad beige parent.

• 23:21Ben Brock Johnson?

  Can you do a dramatic reading in your voice or Werner Herzog's voice from like the first page, the, the part about building a nursery?

• 23:30Speaker 05

  Sure. Hold on, let me pull it up here.

• 23:33Ben Brock Johnson?

  Before your baby is born. No, that's more Arnold Schwarzenegger. That's too Arnold.

• 23:40Speaker 05

  Yeah, you gotta really, you gotta feel it in your soul.

• 23:43Ben Brock Johnson?

  Yeah.

• 23:44Amory Sivertson?

  That can be your book, Ben, about raising a Terminator or something.

• 23:50Ben Brock Johnson?

  There's a deep sadness.

• 23:51Speaker 05

  Would you call that a termite?

• 23:54Amory Sivertson?

  Termite, yeah.

• 23:55Ben Brock Johnson?

  Termite, there you go. Nice.

• 23:58Speaker 05

  All right, let's go. We gotta get into the Werner mindset.

• 24:03Ben Brock Johnson?

  You don't have to do it. You could do it in your own voice. I mean, this is you writing, right?

• 24:08Speaker 05

  Yes, it is. Yes, the book is in my point of view rather than Werner, although I do, it's probably the only parenting book out there that does quote Werner Herzog and Marcel Proust. But here is how to harness the cold embrace of the abyss when decorating your nursery. It is time. The wind howls. Rain falls in sheets of silver daggers. Somewhere, a screen door smacks against a solitary door frame. The signs' importance all point to the looming task drawing nigh. Yes, it is time to decorate your baby's nursery. This is the most magical time when you undertake the project of preparing a room for your little one's introduction to this world in neutral beige tones, of course.

• 24:54Speaker 05

  Beige is gentle and calming, so your baby is sure to be cool as a cucumber. Here, they will rock with you in the beige glider, cooing to your neutral lullabies. Here, they will giggle neutrally and burp onto beige birch cloths. Here, they will refuse to drift off to dreamland in their beige crib, choosing instead to scream like an inconsolable parade of fire trucks blaring their sirens long into the night. Ah, what bliss this room shall see.

• 25:25Amory Sivertson?

  So what are we to do with this beige phenomenon? Or, you know, is this something that we should surrender to? Or is there value in pushing back against the beige?

• 25:41Speaker 05

  I think that you should lean into whatever brings you joy. So if beige truly is bringing you joy, then your child will probably find joy in it too, because you're raising them in a way that makes you happy. But likewise, if there comes a point where your child is like, I want that horrible purple tutu, or like, my son fell in love with a clown doll at Spirit Halloween.

• 26:09Amory Sivertson?

  Oh, no.

• 26:10Speaker 05

  And no amount of giving him like cute, snuggly bunnies would solve it. He wanted that. And so sometimes you also just have to give in to whatever whimsical, weird thing happens in your parenting journey.

• 26:28Amory Sivertson?

  Do you think that we will cycle back to a more colorful world? Is this something we're going to snap out of? Or has the algorithm just changed us all too much and disrupted the kind of cycles that we think of?

• 26:44Speaker 05

  You know, we have a lot of power. And, you know, I joke that we have become internet and internet is us. But it does mean that we are internet. So we can push back against that. But I don't think that we have to just surrender to the algorithm. In the end, we are the people who control our lives and our aesthetics. And all of the best things that I've found have come from like the local art market in my house, rather than buying prints online, although that can be nice. And so just being willing to explore and see what's out there and fall in love with stuff that you find that maybe your algorithm hasn't fed you.

• 27:23Amory Sivertson?

  Do you guys remember when Obama wore a beige suit?

• 27:27Speaker 05

  Oh, my God.

• 27:29Ben Brock Johnson?

  Who doesn't remember?

• 27:30Amory Sivertson?

  And the internet lost its mind.

• 27:33Ben Brock Johnson?

  It's the greatest scandal to hit the American presidency in the last 40 years.

• 27:38Amory Sivertson?

  There was a headline that said, "The Audacity of Tope." And I think of that maybe once a week.

• 27:45Speaker 05

  That's incredible. No, that's, that's, that's, wow. Whoever wrote that deserves a raise.

• 27:51Amory Sivertson?

  I know, right?

• 27:54Amory Sivertson?

  We're bringing that back for this episode. We're bringing it back.

• 27:58Speaker 05

  Oh, man, what a good book title that would have been.

• 28:01Amory Sivertson?

  Your next book, your next book. If we stay in the beige, in the beige hellscape, that's your next book.

• 28:10Amory Sivertson?

  Haley, thank you so much for talking to us.

• 28:14Speaker 05

  Thank you so much for having me. This was a pleasure.

• 28:16Amory Sivertson?

  And congrats on the book.

• 28:18Speaker 05

  Thank you.

• 28:19Ben Brock Johnson?

  What color is the cover gonna be?

• 28:22Speaker 05

  I'll give you one guess.

• 28:28Amory Sivertson?

  Okay, so a fun fact about Haley Deroche. Right before we talked to her, we actually realized we've featured one of her videos on our show before. It just happened to be a video that had nothing to do with beige.

• 28:44Ben Brock Johnson?

  It's true. It was kind of a genius TikTok that she made. And if you want to hear more about that, you should go to last year's Endless Thread episode and listen to that one, too. Endless Thread is a production of WBUR in Boston. This episode was produced by Kalyani Saksana and hosted by me, Ben Brock Johnson.

• 29:01Amory Sivertson?

  And me, Amory Sivertson. It was edited by Meg Cramer, mix and sound design by Marquis Neal.

• 29:07Ben Brock Johnson?

  The rest of our team is Grace Tatter, Dean Russell, Chiosna Bernadette, Emily Jankowski, and our production manager, Paul Vikes, as well as our managing producer, Samantha Joshi.

• 29:17Amory Sivertson?

  Endless Thread is a show about the blurred lines between white and cloud dancer. Very blurry lines.

• 29:28Ben Brock Johnson?

  If you have an unsolved mystery, an untold history, or another wild story from the internet, you can email us at [email protected].

• 30:04Speaker 00

  Support for this podcast comes from Is Business Broken?, a podcast from the Marotra Institute at BU Questram School of Business. Follow Is Business Broken? wherever you get your podcasts and listen on for a preview of a recent episode featuring Janet Kang, Executive Director of the Just Horizons Alliance, on who stands to benefit from AI in education.

• 30:26Speaker 09

  I am absolutely in favor of AI in learning in the right context.

• 30:31Speaker 10

  And just to explain why you're excited about it.

• 30:33Speaker 09

  Oh my gosh, individualized support, right? Personalization and to be able to scale quality education in places where it was historically impossible. So for certain kinds of learners with different kinds of learning styles and disabilities. For example, speakers of different languages. There are amazing ways AI can boost learning. It just has to be with the right context. And age appropriateness is something we do a lot of work in because it is very different depending on where in that maturity cycle you are in terms of how your brain develops.

• 31:04Speaker 00

  Find the full episode by searching for Is Business Broken wherever you get your podcasts and learn more about the Marotra Institute for Business Markets and Society at ibms.bu.edu.

• 31:23Speaker 10

  This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Football has a play for just about everything. You can go deep, keep it on the ground, or draw up something nobody sees coming. And whether you want to run a flea flicker or the tush push, you need a plan to fit your unique situation. That's why State Farm takes the time to get to know you so they can help personalize coverage for your life and budget. Now that's a solid game plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.

• 31:51Speaker 11

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