Part 2: The 76ers Fell Apart, Embiid’s Next Five Years, and Week 12 NFL Picks With Chris Ryan and Joe House

In Part 2 of a two-part podcast, The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Chris Ryan and Joe House to discuss how miserable the 76er situation is right now, how we got here, and whether it can be saved (1:35). Next, Bill and House run through their favorite NFL games for the weekend slate (54:44), and make the Million-Dollar Picks for NFL Week 12 (1:16:39). Host: Bill Simmons Guests: Chris Ryan and Joe House Producers: Kyle Crichton and Steve Ceruti The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Bill Simmons?

  It's part two of the special Thursday pod. Joel Embiid and the Sixers. What's going on there? Million dollar picks, all next. This episode of the Bill Simmons Podcast is presented by State Farm. Every football player brings something different to the field. Maybe they have a cannon arm, speed, power. Maybe they have their own podcast. That being said, no two players are exactly alike. And the same is true off the field. That's why State Farm takes the time to get to know you. So they can help personalize coverage for your life and budget. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Excitement is in the air. That's right. It's the start of NBA season. I can't wait to get together with friends, share some Michelob Ultras and watch Tip Off.

• 0:45Bill Simmons?

  Plus, as the official beer sponsor of the NBA, Michelob Ultra is getting you closer to the action with experiences that make you feel like you're courtside to actual courtside tickets. Enter now for a chance to win at michelobultra.com/courtside. Michelob Ultra Courtside 26 to 27. No purchase necessary. Opening US residents 21 plus. Begins on October 1st, 2026. Ends on June 30th, 2027. Multiple entry periods. See official rules at michelobultra.com/courtside for free entry, entry deadlines, prizes and details. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. If you missed part one of this podcast, I did an NBA six pack and we talked to Peter Schrager for a long, long time and it is already up and you can watch it as well on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel.

• 1:31Bill Simmons?

  Where we put clips and videos of all the stuff we do here. We also have a Ringer Movies YouTube channel. We put the rewatchables where we did the Replacements on Monday. I was surprised how many people are excited in my life that we did this. A lot of people love that movie. So there you go. Coming up on this podcast, Chris Ryan, my longtime Grant Land slash Ringer colleague.

• 1:54Bill Simmons?

  My frequent co-host on the Rewatchables and a diehard Philadelphia fan. We're gonna talk about this Joel Embiid Sixers situation because it's getting really, really grim. And it's worth two segments. So we had them with Joe House, who stuck around and did Million Dollar Picks with me after. I like week 12. We're gonna talk about that. Tried to figure out a way to squeeze Drake May into the podcast somehow, which we did a Million Dollar Picks. Can't wait for you to listen. First, our friends from Pearl Jam.

• 2:43Bill Simmons?

  All right, taping this early Thursday afternoon. Joe House is here because we're gonna do a Million Dollar Picks a little bit later. Chris Ryan is here of The Ringer. We've worked together 13 years, diehard Philadelphia fan. And Chris, I wouldn't be doing my job if I didn't ask you what it's like to be a Philadelphia 76ers fan right now.

• 3:03Speaker 01

  You know what? It's actually not as bad as you think because it was a head-on collision. And like it was dead on impact. It's 2 and 12. Yeah, like they could probably scratch and claw their way out of this, but to me, the season, they had a kind of like end of the season vibe in the second half against Memphis on Wednesday.

• 3:23Bill Simmons?

  House, did you watch it? I couldn't look away. I watched the entire game. I think I watched every single minute of it.

• 3:30Speaker 02

  I was going back and forth, but it wasn't encouraging. I still want to know why Embiid is playing. I still would like to know.

• 3:43Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, CR, walk us through this. What's the upside of not? So, all right, they fuck up. He plays the Olympics. They don't talk him out of that. That was a mistake. They fuck up. They give him a giant extension before the season starts.

• 3:54Speaker 01

  They didn't fuck up, Bill. Come on. They have to fucking give Joel Embiid a giant extension.

• 3:57Bill Simmons?

  Well, I think they fucked up that he wasn't, obviously wasn't healthy.

• 4:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, but he hasn't been healthy his entire career. He's not been like a 100% I feel perfect athlete.

• 4:08Bill Simmons?

  So you were fired up when they gave him an extension?

• 4:10Speaker 01

  I think that it's the price of doing business. I think like, like, and, and I think-

• 4:13Bill Simmons?

  That's what Steve Ballmer found out with Kawhi. I mean, I don't know what we're talking about. Well, whatever. You could, we could, they put themselves behind the eight ball with the extension.

• 4:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:23Bill Simmons?

  But then, why throw him out there when he's obviously not healthy? Explain this to us.

• 4:27Speaker 01

  I can't explain it to you because this has been a hallmark of like the entire Embiid, Embiid experience where I think as fans, especially this generation of fans of the Sixers are completely like, okay with, hey, we're going to have to take some losses to make some gains. It's, that's the whole point of the process was that this was going to be this teardown to the studs and that we're going to then build up with homegrown talent and bringing in free agents from acquiring guys through trade to help that homegrown talent get to a title. We are exactly in the same place we were when Doug Collins left, which is basically a second round basketball team. And we're aging now. Like we have changed the kind of, uh, the sort of character of the team to where Joel Embiid is 30.

• 5:12Speaker 01

  He looks like he's 38. He might even look like he's 47, frankly. And like the guys that they have around him are largely veterans who are there on not necessarily mercenary contracts, but certainly like are there to win titles or get deep into the playoffs. McCain-

• 5:27Bill Simmons?

  But then you have this whole other fun Sixers team where it's like McCain and Maxey and Yabesel-

• 5:32Speaker 01

  That's just the thing. If, if there was a two and 12 McCain and Maxey team, I think he would have been like, ah, yeah, this is kind of weird and sucks and we're, we're pretty much out of it, but who knows? Like we're feisty and McCain's great. But instead with George, who's now hyperextended his knee and is, is back out again. And Embiid doing the like daily and not even daily, like hourly updates on like, maybe I will, maybe I won't. I'm never going to be a hundred percent. I won't play back to backs, but I will if it's rolling for me. And I should be out, but I'm going to come back in. If they had just been like Joel Embiid tweaked something at the end of the Olympics, he's out for the first six weeks. I just think it's a completely different scenario.

• 6:12Bill Simmons?

  You agree with that, House?

• 6:14Speaker 02

  Of course, of course, it is. This is, um, to me, the singular most baffling aspect of this entire deal. I thought that the Sixers, in terms of team building, had a pretty successful summer. They put all their chips in the middle.

• 6:30Bill Simmons?

  Well, we know you thought that because you took the over of 50 and a half wins. Remember that?

• 6:34Speaker 02

  I, I stand by it. It wasn't wrong in the context of the information that was available. It was a simple, uh, idea. I do think it, it was then desirable for them to try and finish among the top four teams in the East. Desirable, right? Understanding, of course, that you're not going to get a full season out of Embiid or a full season out of Paul George. You, you hope for most of a full season out of Maxey and that you can weather the storm enough to get around 50 wins and finish in the top four in the East because all things being equal would be better to be have home court in the first round than not. But having said all that, the thing that's baffling to me, still doesn't have an answer, is what's with the drama, mama?

• 7:18Speaker 02

  What are we talking about? Just shut up. Well, like, you did a great job in the summer. You built the best team you could build. There is a closing window on, on Embiid. We all agree there that Joel Embiid ain't going to be playing professional basketball for another mother effing decade. So you go all in and he's, there's something happened. Something either at the Olympics, after the Olympics, something happened.

• 7:42Bill Simmons?

  Before the Olympics.

• 7:43Speaker 02

  Or before, yeah. So we gotta shut him down. Okay, shut him down. Shut him down and shut him up. That's it. There's nothing else to say. Why are we talking? What is, who, who benefits from the goddamn daily soap operas? Who is the score?

• 7:57Bill Simmons?

  Well, you go to the why are we talking thing, it's literally why are we talking? Because all this stuff leaked out from that hour long meeting where we come to find out the least surprising piece of information, see our recent Sixers history, which is that Joel Embiid, that the other players were upset about his accountability, showing up late to meetings, his practice habits. And it was like, Yeah, I I'm not surprised by one aspect of this. Were you?

• 8:25Speaker 01

  No, but I think that this is all about how it's getting framed, right? So like, if you change over two thirds of your roster almost every season, you're not going to be able to control the culture of the locker room. And if you bring in new faces who maybe don't have the same allegiances or the same relationships with guys in that locker room, they might just have like more incentive to say something to their agent, who says something to Shams, whatever happened. Honestly, it feels like that literal part of Maxie calling out Embiid seems like it was kind of blown out of proportion. You know, like there was like

• 8:59Bill Simmons?

  Well, because they're buddies, right?

• 9:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, they are buddies and it sounds like, at least from Embiid's side of things, he was like, that was 30 seconds of like a 30 minute meeting. You know, like was you, one person being like, you gotta show up on time more and him being like, you're right, I gotta be better. Why Joel Embiid is 30 and not showing up to shit on time? And that that has become so detrimental to the team that it's getting out into an ESPN report and that other guys on the team clearly don't look at him as the alpha leader of the locker room and are okay with letting those details out of the locker room. Like, that's a whole other conversation. But yeah, like the communication part of this has been awful from top to bottom.

• 9:38Bill Simmons?

  Well, and then you have comparing his work ethic and ability to stay in shape versus some of the other best players in the league, right? That's where it really jumps out. And that's been the thing we've said on this podcast over and over again. He's competing against people like Giannis and Tatum, like LeBron in year 22.

• 9:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:56Bill Simmons?

  These guys that, you know, this is their life is to stay in shape and be ready for seasons and, you know, not make excuses about stuff. I think House and I are a little older than CR. We've seen a lot of centers hit this point and it usually doesn't end well. And that was the case I made before the season. As you get older, as you start carrying more weight, as you have some injuries and some injury history. Not a lot of evidence. Like, we saw it happen. You had Andrew Bynum that year. I think he was an All-Star in 2012, and two years later, he was out of the league. You just, when you're talking about these big 7'2", 7'3" bodies with extra weight, House, that's where my mind went to. Some of the guys we've watched where it ends fast.

• 10:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, but the only thing that cuts against that is that it seemed like for the very first time in his career, it finally came out of his mouth that I think I should show up to the season in shape. I think this will be the season that I will choose. And there was a kind of logic thread to it. He just surrounded himself with the upper of upper echelon, the highest performing, highest successful NBA players.

• 11:09Bill Simmons?

  Right. Usually, there's a bump from that.

• 11:12Speaker 02

  Right. The Olympic bump, what was somehow lost because he did get that experience. He was with all of those bright minds and very successful players with their own successful regiments. And he did say afterwards, I am going to be the skinny guy. It's gonna be skinny and be.

• 11:30Bill Simmons?

  I want to be like Tim Duncan. I want to have a thinner body.

• 11:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, the Tim Duncan part that he needed to internalize probably was just not saying anything. You know what I mean? Like, it's just, they needed probably to put a cap on the narration and the interfacing with the press about like what his intentions are and where he is. And it's honestly like, it's weird hero ball stuff for him to be out there right now. And it's really unfortunate because what happens to him when he's not feeling great is his game becomes repulsive. It honestly becomes fucking nauseating to watch him play.

• 12:08Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 12:08Speaker 01

  There's some guys where you're like, oh, look at him. He's gutting it out. You know what I mean? This is not Philip Rivers on a broken leg. This is like.

• 12:16Bill Simmons?

  I think he fell down, what, eight times last night? He's just flopping around and it, yeah, right. He wears all of his emotions on his face, good and bad. And this last night against Memphis was the all time worst case version of that.

• 12:29Speaker 01

  And it's just, this is not a together team. It's not being coached in a way that seems like the coach wants to be there. Maybe he does, but this is not the Nick Nurse that I thought the Sixers were getting, that it's not the Nick Nurse that coached last year. And he seems super pissed about whatever the situation is. He seems disgruntled in every press conference. He seems supremely annoyed with the press corps. And then on top of that.

• 12:58Bill Simmons?

  Welcome to Philly.

• 12:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, but like, honestly, man, though, like, it's every, every city is hard on a team that has expectations, though, right? Like, I mean, the thing that I think is so jarring about this is that I almost wonder if it would be worse if they were four and seven. You know what I mean? Because it would be like, wow, you're not quite playing up to expectations. This is a disaster.

• 13:20Bill Simmons?

  Well, I was looking at their schedule. They, they lose every game by 10 to 20 points. I think they've had one close loss. Every other loss is a blowout.

• 13:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, their net differential is, is fourth worst in the NBA.

• 13:32Bill Simmons?

  That game yesterday, which, you know, they, they kind of fought back at the end because Memphis isn't good and also kind of fell asleep. But even that game, they're down 20 in the fourth quarter.

• 13:42Speaker 01

  By Luke Kennard and Aldama and like, they didn't have Ja or Zeti last night. So it's not like you can like, be like, oh, well, we got taken out by three all NBA guys. It's like, no, you, you lost to the B team Grizzlies in a like, kind of half full gym.

• 13:58Bill Simmons?

  Well, the alarming thing about Embiid, like House, what you said earlier about why, why so much talking? Why telling us why you're feeling better? Are you going to lose the weight? To me, it's like me and CR, one of our favorite movies, The Town. It's the Blake Lively character being like, Dougie, I quit drinking. Shine and I are getting to get in a pot, man. It's going to be great. And it's like, I don't know if I trust this.

• 14:23Bill Simmons?

  Not to compare me to Blake Lively of the town, but I guess I just did. It's like, ah, that all sounds good, but can I, can I see it for like a year? Can I, can I see skinny Embiid? Can I see you play some back to backs? I just feel like the ship sailed. What was crazy about last night? The body language, the team just doesn't seem together at all. The bench seemed like they were really trying to like cheer baskets and stand up and do the good chemistry thing. But on the court, uh, it was a mess. And I noticed this last year with Embiid during the Knicks series, and I remember talking about it on the pod. And House, I think you and I talked about it. He's just really slow to the ball now and rebounds and shot block stuff.

• 15:07Bill Simmons?

  And I don't know whether his knees are just like, he's carrying too much weight there shot. He can't move quickly anymore. It doesn't have quick burst stuff. This was, we also saw that in the Olympics, which is why I think they were so hesitant to play him in certain situations. He gets killed on the offensive boards now. There's guys flying around. If you, if you put him in a pick and roll and he has to run out to a shooter, he can't. And over and over again, you watch, it's not just that they're losing. The offense that these teams are getting combined with the offensive rebounds that they can get. I think is the most alarming thing to me. It's, he can still get his points. I feel like he can always get to 25 or 30, but the other side of the ball is the alarming part to me.

• 15:46Speaker 01

  But on, honestly dude, on paper, with all due respect, House, they're not the Wizards. Like they shouldn't be two and 12, like Paul George and Tyrese Maxey. I know they've missed time each, but like there have been stretches of time over the last five seasons with the Sixers, where the Sixers have been able to weather three weeks, five weeks without Embiid and stay in the kind of like middle of the pack in the Eastern Conference.

• 16:11Speaker 02

  It's literally why I had them winning 50 games.

• 16:14Speaker 01

  This is like a mutiny.

• 16:16Speaker 02

  They'd be able to roll with it.

• 16:18Bill Simmons?

  Well, House, they played Brooklyn, they played Brooklyn on Friday night at home. And they played the Clippers on Sunday at home, the revenge of James Harden. I almost think they're better off not playing at home. Then they play the Houston Pit Bulls on Wednesday, which is just a nightmare game. Talk about a team that plays hard and has athletes and is relentless. That's a team I don't want to play. And then they're at Detroit on November 30th. Does Nick Nurse make it out of the month for you?

• 16:46Speaker 02

  Oh, of course. I mean,

• 16:47Bill Simmons?

  Of course, really?

• 16:49Speaker 02

  What, what, what's the thesis for getting rid of Nick Nurse? Like, what, like, how, how is that gonna help? He's not the one.

• 16:56Bill Simmons?

  Well, under the Rob Pelinka law of things are going wrong. It's gotta be somebody else's fault. Who else are you gonna blame? They can't get rid of Georgia and Embiid.

• 17:04Speaker 02

  There's nothing to blame. It's November. Well, you know, the, the, the season that matters starts in March. Their, their forecasted win total right now is 38 and a half.

• 17:16Bill Simmons?

  Is that on Fanduel?

• 17:18Speaker 02

  Yes, it is. You can bet that right this second.

• 17:19Bill Simmons?

  Oh, my God, that was 42 and a half two days ago.

• 17:21Speaker 02

  Well, it's 38 and a half right now. But I'm telling you, they're only a couple of slots out of the 10 seed. They're dead last in the Eastern Conference right now as we're taping, but only a handful of spots away. And they, right now, have the seventh best odds to make the playoffs. It's minus 215 for the Sixers to make the playoffs.

• 17:42Bill Simmons?

  Oh, shit. So those odds weren't even on Fanduel like three hours ago when I was taping. So CR.

• 17:47Speaker 01

  The people demanded. We have to fucking short these guys. Yeah.

• 17:51Speaker 02

  No, to make the playoffs, though. Much better odds to make than to miss.

• 17:55Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, but they're not, I don't think they're gonna be in the top six. So.

• 18:01Speaker 02

  Agreed.

• 18:01Bill Simmons?

  Basically, the cutoff would be the 10 seed, CR. Right? So you'd have to finish above five teams. So I'm gonna list some teams. Like, you'll finish ahead of Washington no matter what happens. You have too much talent. That's happening. Sorry, House.

• 18:15Speaker 02

  Way to go out on a limb.

• 18:16Bill Simmons?

  You'll finish ahead of Toronto, because I don't, I don't think Toronto even necessarily wants to be good. So that's the second one.

• 18:24Bill Simmons?

  I think you'll finish ahead of Charlotte.

• 18:27Speaker 01

  I do too.

• 18:28Bill Simmons?

  So there's three. Then it starts getting a little gamy. Like you have Chicago that you catch Chicago on the right night and they can score, you know, they could score with anybody that look okay. You'd have to pass Detroit and Brooklyn. You'd have to pass two of those three. Detroit right now is seven and nine and they're in these games and Cade is playing better than anyone on the Sixers. Can you get to a 10 seed?

• 18:55Speaker 01

  Uh, I think you can get to a 10 seed. I think that that's going to be so far below the expectations of the franchise at this point that it's going to still be seen as an abject failure. This is not, um, I don't think that this team had like Miami Heat expectations this season where it's like, what they do is basically use the regular season as a like a experiment, you know, and weather all these storms and Spoh is making guys from G Leaguers into All-Stars and it's just gonna, they're gonna scrape and claw their way into the playoffs and then nobody wants to play them. I think this is a team that was really hoping to have some kind of home court advantage in the playoffs. And also probably to be so safe in that, that they could rest guys down the stretch and make sure Embiid was healthy.

• 19:38Bill Simmons?

  Now it's the opposite.

• 19:39Speaker 01

  Now it's the opposite and I think like, I think now what happened with that meeting coming out, becoming public, is the problem is, is that everything seems like a reaction to something else. So losing to Memphis, which sucked anyway, uh, is now a failure of the meeting to galvanize the team.

• 20:00Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 20:00Speaker 01

  So like, instead of it just being like, ah, you lost on the road to Memphis. What a shitty start of the season, but hopefully everybody starts to get, get it together. It's now like, that meeting didn't work. Right? Embiid looked miserable. He immediately comes out after the Memphis game and says whoever leaked that is a real piece of shit. Presumably the person in the locker, somebody in the locker room did that. So that's what is happening in that locker room. George goes out, George does a podcast about the, the all hands meeting, the, the team meeting.

• 20:31Bill Simmons?

  Oh, he did that? I missed that part. He did?

• 20:33Speaker 01

  Apparently. Yeah. I haven't listened to it yet. I just saw, House was just showing me the, the thumbnail from it.

• 20:39Bill Simmons?

  Definitely getting to get podcast content out of it.

• 20:41Speaker 01

  It's like, I, my recommendation would be for Joel Embiid to go out and not play for four weeks to, four to six weeks and get as healthy as he can because him being like, I'm gonna try and drag my body through 35 minutes against Memphis.

• 20:56Bill Simmons?

  No.

• 20:57Speaker 01

  Is not helping.

• 20:58Bill Simmons?

  They need to win like 34 games. So just send him packing and make sure he gets in shape. I thought he looked so miserable last night when that, when the halftime hit and he just walked off.

• 21:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:09Bill Simmons?

  And it was like, he was like a tennis player. We gotta take a break. I have a, I have a, so we're gonna keep talking about Philly, but I have a take that I'm so excited to throw at House that I've been saving for, for the podcast. That's next.

• 21:26Bill Simmons?

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• 22:07Bill Simmons?

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• 22:51Bill Simmons?

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• 23:33Bill Simmons?

  We created the 30 on 30 Ringer PBT. You can boost any 30-point scorer, 30 on 30 special bet on this Friday's NBA Cup slate. For instance, CR, you can take Cam Thomas against your Philadelphia 76ers. Just let Cam Thomas cook, right? House, are you a 30-point scorer bet guy? It's pretty fun.

• 23:57Speaker 02

  I haven't been, but I'm willing to jump in, especially with the profit boost.

• 24:01Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, so, yeah, on Fridays, it pops up and they'll give you like four choices. So then you gotta do the matchups in your head.

• 24:11Speaker 02

  Will they give us Cam Thomas?

• 24:13Bill Simmons?

  They'll give us Cam Thomas. It'll probably be like plus 140 plus. Last week on Friday, I gave out three, including Grady Dick was plus 750 against Detroit. I was very excited about it. He didn't get it, but it was a fun thing to monitor during the game. But just pick your 30-point scorer, ride, and there you go. You can even maybe take Joel Embiid if he ends up playing one of these games. CR, are you an NBA Cup guy?

• 24:37Speaker 01

  I am an NBA Cup guy. I love the, the different courts. Sure, you know, just visually stimulating. I love tournament basketball, so this, the group stages or whatever, but I love the knockouts.

• 24:47Bill Simmons?

  I like the concept of guys trying when they're down eight with like 10 seconds left. It's super fun. And by the way, very good for the 30 on 30 as well. Hope you like the Ringer Profit Boost. We will be doing it each Friday during the NBA Cup. Just look for 30 on 30 in the FanDuel Sportsbook app. All right, here we go, House. CR, feel free to weigh in as well. Are we sure Nick Nurse is good? Can I just walk through? I'm willing to say, yes, he's good, but can we just walk through it? So he takes over a Toronto team that went 59 and 23 in 2019. They went 58 and 24. They win on that Kawhi shot last second. Sorry, Chris.

• 25:29Bill Simmons?

  LeBron's in the West. It's the first year LeBron leaves. They play the Warriors in the finals. KD's hurt, doesn't come back to game five, immediately blows out his Achilles. Klay Thompson gets hurt, same game. They get this miracle Kawhi performance and they squeeze it out. And we're like, Nick Nurse is a good coach. And I think he probably is a decent to good coach. Next year, 53 wins. Next year, 27 wins. 48, 41 gets fired from there. Goes to Philly the year after. Has that really weird Nick series and then looks completely miserable this year. I just, I wonder if there's like only four or five good coaches, period. And I thought maybe he was one of them, but I think what we're learning is he probably wasn't. How's your thoughts?

• 26:14Speaker 02

  I think what you're speaking to, and I think is a fair criticism of him, is his ability to rally, his ability to, um, you know, get guys on the same page with a common cause. Because the story about why Toronto fell apart had to do with, um, a defensive scheme where they had a whole bunch of guys. They didn't have one tall guy on that team, on that roster. They all had to go, you know, uh, baseline to baseline, side to side, full out defensive, uh, pressure extended way out to the three point line. And at some point, they all got effing tired of it. And they went to coach Nick Nurse and said, God damn it, Coach Nick Nurse,

• 26:59Speaker 02

  you're, this is exhausting. We can't, uh, expend all of this energy, playing all this defense in this way. And it fell on deaf ears and they were like, hey, guess what, Nick Nurse? Fuck you.

• 27:11Bill Simmons?

  Right. Then goes to Philly, same, you know, that not like last year. And I was thinking about that Toronto team because it's. Such a weird outlier, right? They had great defense, right? They have Kawhi, who's actually healthy. They have Marc Gasol rim protection. They have Kyle Lowry, they have Siakam, they have Ananobia, they didn't have him in the playoffs that year. Danny Green, they had wings, they had Ibaka. But really, they had Kawhi, who we left that playoffs thinking, this is the best player in the world. And we've seen coaches that have great situations like that. And I just wonder, like, like, when they hired him, CR, and we talked about, I was like, wow, you got Nick Nurse. That guy's a fucking great coach.

• 27:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, because it was like, there was, and it was like, is he, you know, are we gonna lose him to the Bucks? There was like a whole, like, Nick Nurse is the hottest free agent candidate.

• 27:54Bill Simmons?

  Nick Nurse sweepstakes?

• 27:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:56Bill Simmons?

  Not sure there'd be a sweepstakes again, I guess is my point.

• 27:59Speaker 01

  I don't really know. I don't really know, would Erik Spoelstra just do a better job here? Like, what?

• 28:07Bill Simmons?

  Probably not.

• 28:08Speaker 01

  What can a coach do when you're, when the, the main issue seems to be effort?

• 28:12Bill Simmons?

  Well, the big issue is, it doesn't seem like he can 100% connect with Embiid, as we've seen, basically, from all of Embiid's resume this season.

• 28:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I, I think there's a, there, everybody gets a little piece of blame pie, you know? Embiid talking about-

• 28:30Bill Simmons?

  You want to go blame pie? We're doing a, are we doing an ESPN gimmick? I like this.

• 28:33Speaker 01

  Embiid deserves a slice. Daryl deserves a slice. Paul George deserves a slice. Nick Nurse deserves a slice. You know, like, Embiid can't stop saying stupid shit. That's a huge problem, but that's probably more of a fan problem, I would imagine, than it is, than it is a player problem. I just think that this looks like a team that hates each other. And I honestly, I was trying to rack my brains. I mean, I, you can look up, it's like, oh, who's 2 and 12 and still makes the playoffs? It's like, not that many teams.

• 29:02Speaker 02

  Six out of 92. I looked it up.

• 29:03Speaker 01

  Right, but it's now that the playoffs have been expanded. But more than that, you just don't really see teams that clearly dislike each other this much doing anything.

• 29:12Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 29:13Speaker 01

  There are teams-

• 29:14Speaker 02

  Do they really, do they really dislike each other?

• 29:17Bill Simmons?

  It doesn't seem like a happy team, I, I think is a very fair point.

• 29:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:21Bill Simmons?

  They don't seem happy playing basketball together.

• 29:23Speaker 01

  Right, right. And I don't think any of the guys, nobody on that team- Except for Jared McCain is playing in the plus. They're not playing in, wow, we never expected that, but Jared McCain, him and Connect are like the two big success stories of the draft so far, it seems like. It's not like, George looks terrible even when he's not being dragged off the court. Maxey's obviously hurt. Drummond looks old. You know, like Caleb Martin.

• 29:53Bill Simmons?

  There's no, no signs that Drummond might have been a bad signing.

• 29:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, Kyle.

• 29:57Bill Simmons?

  No signs that Kyle Lowry might not have it anymore.

• 30:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, so.

• 30:00Bill Simmons?

  But here's the thing, CR, they like, they crushed the McCain pick. They get Caleb Barton at a huge discount. He was the only guy who was flying around. I actually thought he was really good last night. And Yabaselli was a really good sign. They added three guys to the rotation that.

• 30:14Speaker 01

  It doesn't matter.

• 30:15Bill Simmons?

  Are awesome guys and it hasn't mattered at all.

• 30:17Speaker 01

  Embiid. Right. The whole entire thing runs through Embiid, especially if Paul George is going to be this passive. That's one thing that's been sad is that like, because he got hurt in the preseason and because like he's just re-injured himself, there's been no opportunity to be like, hey, man, Paul, we're going to need you to carry us for the first 20 games of the season. You know, you're going to have to go out and get 25 a night. You're going to have to be the lead scorer. You're going to have to take the best player on the opposing team on defense. And he's just completely come, the terrifying thing is like, this is why the Clippers let him go. They probably saw this coming.

• 30:53Bill Simmons?

  I covered this in part one. It's like buying the, buying the used car from somebody who's really eager to sell it to you. It's probably a red flag.

• 31:00Speaker 01

  But Bill, have you ever had a Celtics season in recent memory?

• 31:04Bill Simmons?

  We did. We had the second Kyrie season. You could see it. The whole season. It's like, it's off. This is off. But I talked about this when I did the power poll a couple of weeks ago about when the concept of sacrifice, when you're putting together a big three and how like when people always point to the 08 Celtics where it was like those guys were at the point of their career where they're ready to give something up. This time around, you'd have to have Embiid, what's he giving up? And does he want to get in shape? You have Paul George, who's probably the most likely candidate to be like, yeah, I don't care if I score all the time. I just want to win a title. And then you have. Maxey, who's trying to prove he's a great player. He hasn't, you know, he, he doesn't want to sacrifice anything. He shouldn't want to. He's a young player who's trying to prove that he's one of the best guards in the league.

• 31:48Bill Simmons?

  So that alone made me nervous, but then the Embiid conditioning and then the chemistry is, I think the variables even House couldn't have expected as he went over 50 and a half wins. Which I'm going to cross that off House for you already.

• 32:02Speaker 02

  I'm, I, I, I will take that L. Uh, it's literally why it's called gambling, but it was exactly what Chris Ryan just described. It was Paul George holding down the fort through the first 20 games. And Paul George and Maxey in the East, you know, building a little something.

• 32:19Bill Simmons?

  And with McCain. Yeah.

• 32:20Speaker 02

  Right, right. A little something, but he showed up dead and, and he was hurt within days of us doing the over under podcast. And I, maybe he's not, uh, uh, I mean, after last night's injury, maybe he, he's, he's still not, you know, restored to, to full health. I mean.

• 32:38Bill Simmons?

  Well, Ken, I hope that he can still podcast.

• 32:41Speaker 01

  The, uh, the thing I was going to say, ask, the thing I was asking you about, like the historical precedents, or if you have this experience where it's been a very long time with the Sixers since a season started. I remember like the first car I ever had was a 91 Ford Tempo, used 91 Ford Tempo. And the transmission blew out on the drive home from the dealership.

• 33:03Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 33:04Speaker 01

  And it was just like, well, that is definitive. This is a lemon. Let's take it back to the lot. Like they, clearly there's got to be some like 12 hour grace period. This wasn't like, oh, I'm driving it for a while and shudders a little bit when you make lefts, you know? No, there was no like warning signs. This thing died as soon as it left the season opening gate. And it kind of almost feels like a little liberating after all these years of like kind of coming up short is like, oh, there's something rotten here. And maybe this, this beginning is the beginning of a new chapter. We have to like kind of.

• 33:39Bill Simmons?

  New chapter. You just signed Embiid to an extension and Paul George has a four year deal. What new chapter are we looking at?

• 33:45Speaker 02

  I, I like this.

• 33:47Bill Simmons?

  Me not watching the Sixers. For the new chapter. What are you going to, going to hibernate like a bear for three years?

• 33:52Speaker 01

  I was talking about me. I was talking about my post Sixers life.

• 33:54Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, maybe you'll have more more time now to concentrate on other things.

• 33:58Speaker 02

  Oh, isn't there, isn't there a pathway where it'll be fun to root for 39 wins? Isn't that going to become the new, like, okay, we understand, we, we, we take, like, this is a big element of this is bad luck. Let's be honest.

• 34:13Bill Simmons?

  They, they have their pick.

• 34:16Bill Simmons?

  Eh, but it's top six protected.

• 34:18Speaker 02

  Ah.

• 34:20Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. So you can't even root for like, let's just bottom out, shut Embiid down.

• 34:25Speaker 01

  It would be really fun to root for McCain, Maxey, and, and, and the role players. It would be fun.

• 34:30Speaker 02

  They're too good to bottom out.

• 34:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, McCain, McCain is, is honestly worth watching the Sixers for, even if you also have to watch guys rolling around on the ground in agony.

• 34:41Bill Simmons?

  House, do we, do we need to convene the Ewing Theory Committee? To just, should I send them to Philly to watch what the Sixers might look like if they have to shove Embiid for three weeks? And all of a sudden that team is playing small ball and taking off?

• 34:55Speaker 02

  I don't know. It, it, because we had a pretty good sample size for that last season. They only played 39 games and they were bad. They were bad in the games that he didn't play.

• 35:05Speaker 01

  How much better would you guys feel about this team? Or would we even be doing this segment if they had won like three more games? Still bad, but just a slow start.

• 35:13Bill Simmons?

  So I think the two games this week warranted this statement because it wasn't just that, well, this segment, it wasn't just the Memphis game last night, which was riveting.

• 35:23Bill Simmons?

  The Miami game was unbelievable. I mean, that was.

• 35:25Speaker 02

  They got blow the F out.

• 35:27Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Russillo texted me, he was like, I'm not saying a hate watch pod of Sixers games would do well, but I do think it would get an audience. I, I think he's right. Like, I think you could, you could basically take the Philly special and just make it like a venting session after every Sixer game. And it might, it might, and it rarely happens in basketball because it's the most naked sport, right? In football, they have helmets on, they, they might not show some of the sidelines. In basketball, you know when guys are unhappy, you know, when guys are mailing in a play or a sequence. You can watch the reactions on the bench. You can watch how the bench reacts. You can see the coach in the post game, you know, press conference. There's like 40 checkpoints where you're like, ah, this doesn't look right.

• 36:12Bill Simmons?

  And they're hitting all of them. I can't think of a single one they're not hitting, other than that McCain seems super happy to be in the NBA. He's like, hey, guys. He's like a puppy running around. Hey.

• 36:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:23Bill Simmons?

  It's like when we got Murph and he was just running around the backyard.

• 36:25Speaker 01

  Well, I, I hope that a consequence of all this is not Maxey loses that joy. Cause that's, that's the other thing is.

• 36:32Bill Simmons?

  That's gonna happen.

• 36:33Speaker 02

  Me either.

• 36:33Speaker 01

  Over the last couple of seasons, I think that that's been really important for Sixers fans is to see somebody who plays with so much unbridled pleasure, you know, cause it sometimes doesn't feel that way for Embiid. And honestly, like to me, as much as the health stuff is obviously pretty disturbing with him and the way he's talked about conserving his body for the playoffs and what it's gonna take and, you know, he's never a hundred percent and all that. He has said multiple things about basically saying like, the amount that I've given to this city, if because of how much I've done for this team, because of the amount I've given to the city, it's ridiculous that this is like the discourse on me. So I, I'm just, I'm, I, this is getting kinda dark. You know what I mean?

• 37:17Speaker 01

  I don't know, I don't know what's going to happen. I don't know even, Daryl, this would be the team that Daryl had always dreamed of, right? It's like you've taken Embiid.

• 37:26Bill Simmons?

  Team, yeah.

• 37:27Speaker 01

  And you get the on paper, like.

• 37:28Bill Simmons?

  Three stars.

• 37:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, shooting and, and, and veterans who know what their role is and a really astute coach. And if that doesn't work, I don't, I don't really know what the plan is here, you know?

• 37:38Bill Simmons?

  House, they can't even trade Embiid until the summer if they wanted to. I don't think they do, but they're stuck with that contract.

• 37:45Speaker 01

  By the way, they're also trying to build a, a new arena. So keep that in mind with Embiid trades.

• 37:51Bill Simmons?

  It's weird cause LeBron did that whole thing this week about how social media is too negative and the whole discussion and apparatus around basketball has become too negative. I, I feel like it hasn't really been that different. I think the only thing that probably has been added the last couple of years are these player podcasts where the players are, especially the ex-players, they're like pro wrestlers, you know? It's like Mick Foley talking about how The Undertaker was a giant pussy, you know? Not that he did that, but just like these crit, and the NBA is kinda turning into that where guys are just lobbing. Like Amon Shumpert had a whole thing the other day about how LeBron ruined basketball when he teamed up with Wade and, and, uh,

• 38:31Bill Simmons?

  and Bosch and it was like, didn't, weren't you on LeBron's championship team in 2016? What are you doing? But these pods are just crazy and I, I do wonder if that's a sadded layer. I, I actually think people compared to how this would have been received in the 1990s have been. Pretty reasonable about this Embiid thing with some of the stuff he said. I, we've talked about a lot on this pod. There's been so many red flags. I thought the Olympics was a red flag. The no back to back was a red flag, but see, Art, it feels like something has shifted now with the city in Embiid, where it went from like, you are our favorite son. We would defend you. And Phillies like this in a lot of ways where it's like, you're our guy. Fuck everybody else.

• 39:12Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 39:13Bill Simmons?

  And that's what it is. And it feels like that's been lost, which I think is significant.

• 39:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, I would say it's probably, I mean, to the extent that I can tell from Los Angeles, I would say that the fan base seems split 50 50 between like Joel, true believers. This is, he's just hurt. You guys aren't, you know, aren't being sympathetic to, I'm, I'm over it. I can't, I can't take the quotes.

• 39:34Bill Simmons?

  Like you can't do it anymore.

• 39:35Speaker 01

  I can't take the, the like, I'm not going to let myself feel anything because he's just going to hurt his knee or get Bell's palsy or whatever. Like the litany of things that have happened to him over the course of his career. And then you go back to the origin story of his whole thing where it's just like, it's kind of a, a little bit of a miracle that he's playing. Like when he was drafted, it was like, if we ever get to see Embiid, he could be the best player in this draft. If we ever get to see him and we did, and he has never really, really been a hundred percent. He's also had some really bad luck with injuries with, you know, running into faults or whatever. And all, all that stuff that was like, not really like a muscle, muscle damage thing. But to your point earlier about like the Patrick Ewing's of the world that just

• 40:19Speaker 01

  go downhill really fast. Like there's just too many knee injuries now. I, you know, there's, the, his knees.

• 40:24Bill Simmons?

  Well, also there's, you know what else there is? There's YouTube and you can go back and you can watch him six years ago, seven years ago, and you can watch how he moves and watch him now. And you, almost doesn't look like the same guy. And that's, that's the thing that is undeniable. And that's, we have, unlike 20 years ago, where we didn't have the ability to just queue up whatever video we wanted. Now we can. And you can go back and you can watch him in Kansas in 2014 even. You can watch him in the Sixers even during that regular season when he just seemed like this fucking crazy unstoppable offensive force. How's the thing that's crazy to me is, he's still able to get to 30 points. Like that's how skilled. And how well crafted.

• 41:06Speaker 01

  Shot the lights out last night.

• 41:08Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, he's from 15 to 18 feet. It's going in 98% of the time. And he's figured out how to do that and have enough of like going downhill, lurching into people. He can still get his points, but I think the rebounding and the defenses was falling apart. What else have you seen?

• 41:25Speaker 02

  Well, what I've seen is he shouldn't be on the basketball court. Like I would like him to take off. I think it would be good for him, for the team, for the franchise, for him to just drop out. Come back after the new year. Get yourself right. Get yourself, give yourself the best chance. And you can, after the new year, play the games at, at, you know, NBA speed, getting yourself back up into it. But really, all of this dialogue is November dialogue. It doesn't matter for shit.

• 41:55Bill Simmons?

  Just be ready in April.

• 41:57Speaker 02

  That's it. Unless it so poisons where you might get to come April and you really, the bar is so low. You just have to get to the play in. And in the Eastern Conference.

• 42:08Bill Simmons?

  CR, where does this go for you? Most disappointing Philly teams? Any sport?

• 42:14Speaker 01

  Extraordinarily high.

• 42:16Bill Simmons?

  What was that Eagles team when you had Asama on all those guys?

• 42:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, that was dream team. Yeah, that was, that sucked. But it almost, that was like pride comes before the fall. Like there was just way too much hubris about that team.

• 42:28Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 42:28Speaker 01

  And as soon as it started going.

• 42:29Bill Simmons?

  This team.

• 42:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, maybe you're right. I mean, like I didn't, I thought that this team, it was really wisely assembled. You know, like it seemed like Eric Gordon and Caleb Martin, Drummond was Embiid's best backup that he's ever had.

• 42:45Speaker 01

  It would just seem like this was a very, very expertly wisely assembled team. And so to have this be quite the opposite.

• 42:52Bill Simmons?

  The opposite, yeah.

• 42:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, and not only that, but it would be one thing if they were just like physically not there to have it clearly be a culture problem within the locker room and a huge amount of distrust and a huge amount of like, forget what the Philly fans think about Embiid. This was kind of repudiation of him from within the team. So whether it was like a towel guy who told somebody who told somebody who told Shams, that article came out very soon after the meeting and it had quotes. So someone wanted to get a point across and embarrass him and it worked.

• 43:24Bill Simmons?

  There's somewhere to. That Celtic team, which was such a disappointing team, coming off the Eastern Finals, getting Hayward back, year two Kyrie, it seemed like he was going to sign. And it fell off from the get go, but it had a couple similarities. One was the circus around Kyrie game to game, which he's since then admitted. He was like, yeah, I was in a really rough spot in Boston that second year. And you could feel it. There was like an emotional roller coaster that the players were on, the team was on, even the fans were on watching it. Like who, what are we getting today? What version of him? You have that, but you also had people at different points of their career that were the wrong points for the team, right? And Jalen Brown talked about that recently. He was on that team or Tatum talked about it.

• 44:08Bill Simmons?

  He wanted to prove that, you know, he, he could do this. And it's like, no, you're actually going to be standing in the corner for a lot of these plays. You're going to be the number four guy. So the Sixers have a little of that too. As you get older, you start seeing the signs of where it's not working. Whereas you look, I don't know if the Lakers are going to be good or not, but the way connect fit in just with what they needed. And I don't think that team's going to be able to get stops, but Reddick's got AD playing well. And you can see like, okay, this makes sense. And you know, you watch different basketball teams like, all right, Houston, these guys make sense. There's an identity, maybe it's not perfect. And then I watched Philly and I'm like, wow, I don't, I don't know what this is.

• 44:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's also with that Lakers team. The thing that impresses me the most is just how they immediately came into the season with an identity and a sense of purpose where you could have had the last few years of LeBron's career have been like a victory lap and it could have just been a showcase. And even the Bronny thing in retrospect now like has become a footnote to this season where everybody's like, this is going to be such a huge distraction. Doesn't seem to matter. They handled it perfectly. Like Reddick obviously commands that locker room to some extent, which is incredible given the personalities. And it's the exact opposite with the Sixers.

• 45:25Bill Simmons?

  We'll see what happens when they have a couple of tough games in a row.

• 45:28Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 45:29Bill Simmons?

  The schedule's been pretty easy.

• 45:30Speaker 01

  The Sixers came into the season unprepared, which I don't know. I don't know whose responsibility that is ultimately.

• 45:36Bill Simmons?

  Back to my Nick Ders question.

• 45:37Speaker 02

  But to be fair, how could they prepare? They couldn't have Joel Embiid and Paul George healthy in preseason on the court at the same time.

• 45:44Speaker 01

  For the eventuality that these guys weren't going to be ready and that they should just maybe, they should maybe tell the fan base, tell the team, this is what the first six weeks of the season are going to be like. Don't look at the record.

• 45:53Speaker 02

  You know, I agree with that.

• 45:54Bill Simmons?

  It's tough though, when you're, when you're cawking a championship from July on and victory lap and the whole summer. It's tough to just pivot. That was why it was so, it was so shocking when they did the back to back stuff. House, what was your most disappointing team?

• 46:10Bill Simmons?

  I mean, other than the last 35 years of Bullets Wizards teams. But did you have a high expectations team that?

• 46:16Speaker 02

  I can't pick one.

• 46:20Speaker 02

  I mean, honestly, no, like the, you know, the Nationals, it took them a little while. But they won the World Series in 2019 and it was a new franchise, you know, here in 2005. You know, like, oh, that, that, that team with Jason Worth, that should have been the one, like, not really. The Ovi getting, um, you know, over the, the Penguins, getting past Crosby, uh, finally, like that, that was going to be this real disappointing, you know, career, but he got, he got his one and we'll, we'll see what, what the story is with this knee injury. He may yet get Gresky's, uh,

• 46:55Bill Simmons?

  It's getting close.

• 46:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, he's, he is very close.

• 46:58Bill Simmons?

  House's most disappointing team was the Wizards not being able to beat Kelly Olynyk in a game seven. That's the one that keeps them up at night.

• 47:05Speaker 02

  You can't say Washington, anything having to do with the basketball team because they haven't won 50 games since 1978. There is no one most disappointing when you're in that kind of a streak.

• 47:15Bill Simmons?

  We had a couple of really awful Red Sox teams that were super disappointing. Like there was like a Carl Everett season, there was the chicken and beer season. But you kind of, you kind of know early when it's happening and that would be my fear with the Sixers.

• 47:27Speaker 01

  For the Red Sox, the last couple of seasons, haven't you been like, ever since Mookie, you're basically like,

• 47:31Bill Simmons?

  But you, but I didn't have expectations. I think in this case, you know, they were talking about the Sixers as a possible 60-win team and a two seed and all that stuff.

• 47:40Speaker 01

  I was thinking about the conversation you had with Waz and Van last week, I think it was.

• 47:45Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 47:47Speaker 01

  I think sometimes basketball moves on before NBA fans are ready for it to happen. And I think that the sad truth here is that it just might, this might not happen for this team, or for, at least for Embiid's version of this team. And you just look around and I feel this way often, once the NBA Finals comes around, I'll watch after the Sixers have been eliminated in the second round or the first round, and I'll be like, this is a different sport.

• 48:13Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 48:14Speaker 01

  Like, the Sixers are not close to this. And now that he is very clearly on the downside of his career, and in kind of like a physical decline, it's really hard to like, look around and watch the way some of these other teams are playing and moving, and be like, oh yeah, I feel like this is, this is a month-long break away from the Sixers. It's not. It's not. It's like, this is probably not gonna happen for this guy, and it's really sad.

• 48:41Bill Simmons?

  Well, there was, there was one play yesterday when Jaren Jackson fell down with his legs out, and Embiid was dribbling toward him, and I was just like, this is gonna be, you talked about the car crash at the beginning, I was like, oh my, this is gonna be, something horrible is about to happen, and Embiid, of course, tripped over him, but he got up. But that's another piece of watching these games, where there's three times a game where you feel like something horrible happened to him, or maybe that was it, or, you know, it just feels like he's carrying the weight on his world. It's, it's both not that fun to watch and incredibly riveting to watch with the expectations that this team had. CR, what, uh, what December movie are you the most excited about that you've either seen or you wanna see?

• 49:19Speaker 01

  Uh, the December movie I'm probably most excited to see is honestly the Bob Dylan movie, Complete Unknown. I just, I just, I can't wait to see what the hell they do with this. Um, but yeah, I'm mostly caught up at this point. Gladiator 2 was the one I was looking forward to the most.

• 49:35Bill Simmons?

  Gladiator 2, Denzel is, uh, is having quite the press tour.

• 49:39Speaker 01

  He's loving life.

• 49:41Bill Simmons?

  Fifteen years, he was drinking two bottles of wine a day and oh, I might have tried heroin.

• 49:47Speaker 01

  Somebody's gotta get Denzel his own player pod.

• 49:50Speaker 02

  CR, am I gonna like Gladiator 2?

• 49:53Speaker 01

  You'll like it.

• 49:54Speaker 02

  Okay, good.

• 49:55Speaker 01

  I do not think it matches the first one.

• 49:57Speaker 02

  Fine, fine. I can live with that.

• 49:59Speaker 01

  House hasn't watched this disclaimer yet. Do you wanna talk about Landman for a minute? Can I, can you cheer me up?

• 50:03Bill Simmons?

  That was the other reason you came on. House hasn't seen it, but he can just nod. Landman, Taylor Sheridan, first two episodes up. Billy Bob Thornton as the lead. Jon Hamm, playing a seemingly evil, rich oil guy.

• 50:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:17Bill Simmons?

  Married to Demi Moore, even though I think she's probably like eight years older than him, whatever.

• 50:22Speaker 01

  She also has had one line in two episodes so far, even though she's in a bunch of scenes.

• 50:26Bill Simmons?

  I think the line was, are you paying me in cash?

• 50:31Bill Simmons?

  Billy Bob Thornton's daughter, for some reason, is

• 50:37Bill Simmons?

  comfortable with her body?

• 50:39Speaker 01

  I think it's more just like-

• 50:40Bill Simmons?

  And comfortable talking to Billy Bob Thornton about sex in ways that I promise you, fathers and daughters, don't discuss.

• 50:48Bill Simmons?

  There's that. And then our guy, who's our guy who, spoiler alert, got blown up at the end of the first episode?

• 50:55Speaker 01

  Pena, Michael Pena.

• 50:56Bill Simmons?

  Michael Pena, who, they did the red herring of, here's a name actor, he's gonna be part of the cast. But then if you looked in the credits, it was like, they, what was that other show where they, where they, where they killed Kyle Chandler in the first episode?

• 51:10Speaker 01

  Kingstown, Mayor of Kingstown.

• 51:11Bill Simmons?

  This is, CR, if we ever create one of these shows, we're just killing off somebody famous in the first episode. Cause that's what you do. But, uh, but I liked it. We enter a world and Billy Bob Thornton's just Chef Billy Bob.

• 51:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's basically how, if I have to pitch it, it's Billy Bob Thornton, driving around West Texas from crisis to crisis. He's basically, uh, like the Michael Clayton of this oil company.

• 51:35Speaker 01

  And every time something goes wrong, he's got to call Jon Hamm, who's somewhere where he's like, hold on, I gotta, I gotta.

• 51:41Bill Simmons?

  I'm at a polo match. Yeah.

• 51:42Speaker 01

  And he's like, I'm at a TCU track meet or a polo match.

• 51:46Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 51:46Speaker 01

  And they have an awesome conversation where he's just like, I'm your fucking boss. Don't yell at me. And he's like, all right, well, we gotta stop this leak. And then it's great. It's.

• 51:55Bill Simmons?

  It's a lot of Jon Hamm on a cell phone. It looks like, there's a couple of people who look like they all filmed their scenes in one day possibly. Jon Hamm's a candidate.

• 52:04Speaker 01

  Well, Ali Larder.

• 52:05Bill Simmons?

  So Ali Larder, her varsity blues whipped cream sundae fame. Um, and then heroes fame and everybody loves her and she just kind of comes and goes every seven years. So now she's in and all of her scenes are on FaceTime and I don't know, are, does she not have legs anymore, CR? What's going on here?

• 52:22Speaker 01

  It's unbelievable because it's like, did she get paid like a million dollars to stand in a pool and be on FaceTime? Or is it, does she have like an incredible character arc coming? And this is just the setup for the character, but she has been in.

• 52:35Bill Simmons?

  She couldn't do the first two episodes because she had a pre-planned filming vacation. Yeah. So can you do, can you do your scenes on FaceTime? She's like, I can. Taylor Sheridan breaks all the rules. That's why he makes the big bucks. Do actors have to be in the same location when they shoot scenes? No, apparently not. But what's the point of this show, CR?

• 52:56Speaker 01

  I think it's just supposed to be, you know, like about the, uh, the sort of cynical world of oil production where, I mean, you want to know what the point of like, why would anybody like this? Or you want to be.

• 53:08Bill Simmons?

  No, I think ultimately like when we leave season one, what's Taylor Sheridan trying to tell us? Or is he just like, oil, actors, things blowing up? It's gonna be Yellowstone with oil.

• 53:19Speaker 01

  About like what happens to characters when they dedicate their life to something that is very morally complicated. So like in the same way with Yellowstone is about like, everything it costs to keep a ranch like that going. This is about like, hey, like without this stuff, the world stops running the way we want it to. But what we have to do to get it out of the ground and everything is like pretty complicated.

• 53:45Bill Simmons?

  Obviously not enough of an important theme to get House to watch an episode. I'll tell you that much.

• 53:49Speaker 01

  We find it's.

• 53:50Speaker 02

  Where is it? Where do I find it?

• 53:51Speaker 01

  It's on Paramount Plus.

• 53:52Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 53:53Speaker 02

  Oh, I have to pay for that.

• 53:54Bill Simmons?

  If it was Taylor Sheridan's massage parlor, House would have, House would have already seen the first episode. The massage parlor industry.

• 54:02Speaker 02

  I'm watching sports. I'm here for the, for the.

• 54:05Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, that's true. It is football, basketball season. Uh, I'm really happy for Ollie Larder. I'm happy for Billy Bob Thornton, who seems to have more hair every time we see him. He was completely bald 30 years ago. Now, now it's like, it's like a Michael Landon type of thing on the top.

• 54:20Speaker 01

  He drinks Michelob Ultra the entire show.

• 54:23Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 54:24Speaker 02

  I love it. The balls. That's fantastic.

• 54:27Bill Simmons?

  He has a scene where he, he, his hand got fucked up. So he went to the doctor and, and he didn't have time to wait for surgery. And the guy's like, we gotta get a hand specialist. And, and Billy Bob's like, I'll just cut the pinky off. Let's save the time and just cut, carves his pinky off. Cause.

• 54:42Speaker 02

  Oh, no.

• 54:43Bill Simmons?

  He's a tough motherfucker. What's his name on the show? Billy Bob Thornton.

• 54:47Speaker 01

  His name is Tommy Norris.

• 54:49Bill Simmons?

  Tommy, Tommy Norris is a tough motherfucker.

• 54:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:51Bill Simmons?

  I really had a good time. I loved it. My wife fell asleep like seven different times. It was great. Cause it was perfect experience.

• 54:58Speaker 01

  You didn't wake her up for the daughter scenes to be like, get a fucking load of this?

• 55:02Speaker 02

  I have a question I want to ask, but I can't ask it on the pod, so I'll, I'll wait.

• 55:06Bill Simmons?

  You want to ask it during the break?

• 55:08Speaker 02

  During, during the break, yeah, whatever. We're together. I have a question.

• 55:11Bill Simmons?

  All right, CR, I'll see you tomorrow because, uh, we're taping a rewatchables and it's a movie from the 1980s. And that's all I'm going to say, but we're both very excited about it. Been circling for a while. Thanks, CR.

• 55:22Speaker 02

  See you, Chris Ryan.

• 55:24Bill Simmons?

  Taking a break.

• 55:29Bill Simmons?

  This episode is brought to you by Core Power Protein Shakes. You know how we always talk about the little things that separate great athletes? Post-workout recovery is a big factor. Core Power Protein Shakes help you keep going after your workout with high-quality protein to build muscle and electrolytes to help hydrate. It's all you need for your recovery at one bottle. Available in 26 and 42 gram protein options to pick what works best for you. Visit corepower.com to learn more. This episode is brought to you by NBA 2K27. We just had one of the craziest off seasons we've had in the NBA, which is perfect for 2K because every 2K season can be one of the craziest off seasons. The whole league shifted in real life. It could shift to an NBA 2K27.

• 56:12Bill Simmons?

  The best place to compete with these new look rosters and also try to figure out who's on what roster. You can see how new teams and new dynamic duos match up. You can play Philly, feel what it's like to have all of their new guys with the old guys. And you can also take a struggling franchise to the NBA finals if you want, because it'll never happen in real life for a couple of the struggling franchises. You know who I'm talking about. Anyway, NBA 2K lets you experience every transaction and storyline right from your home. Pick up your copy of NBA 2K27 right now. This episode is brought to you by PayPal. The holiday rush is coming and you can get ahead of it with PayPal.

• 56:57Bill Simmons?

  Shop your favorite online stores with PayPal this season like eBay for collectibles, Fanatics for team gear, Walmart for tech. Check out the flexibility to pay now or pay later and split your payments with Pay in 4 with no interest, no late fees. Shop now with PayPal. Paying for is subject to approval. Learn more at paypal.com/payinfor. PayPal, Inc., NMLS 910457.

• 57:25Bill Simmons?

  Now it's time for a special part of today's episode brought to you by NFL Sunday Ticket on YouTube TV where you can find Joe House on the Ringer Sunday Pregame Show that we do on Sunday mornings. It is a very fun show and it's right on there on YouTube TV. House, we've passed the halfway point in the season. NFL Sunday Ticket now only $89. Oh, yeah, for the stretch run.

• 57:48Speaker 02

  This is when it matters. Yeah, get it now.

• 57:50Bill Simmons?

  Bundle NFL Sunday Ticket and YouTube TV together, which I would highly recommend. And you can watch every game every Sunday. I wish I had known this last year, but now I love YouTube TV. It's great. You know what YouTube TV does from your house? It tapes the challenge. Just puts it in my library because I always forget. And then all of a sudden it's like, oh, it's the challenge. And I just zoom through. It's great. It also allows you to thank yourself this holiday season. NFL Sunday Ticket for $89. Offer ends December 2nd. Local and national games on YouTube TV. NFL Sunday Ticket for out of market games. Excludes digital only games. Terms and embargo apply. And as you know, House, YouTube TV has crowned me their CMO.

• 58:30Speaker 02

  They have.

• 58:30Bill Simmons?

  Their chief multi-view officer to help pick the top four games of the week that you should watch with multi-view. It's the early games this week. Minnesota, Chicago has to be on there, I think. Nice little NFC North battle.

• 58:43Speaker 02

  Classic NFC North divisional rivalry.

• 58:48Bill Simmons?

  Lions Colts, I want to see Richardson. It's a home game for the Colts.

• 58:52Speaker 02

  Me too.

• 58:52Bill Simmons?

  The Lions are a really fun multi-view team because their offense is good. That's on there. And then I think we throw both of our favorite teams in here. New England at Miami.

• 59:01Speaker 02

  Another classic.

• 59:02Bill Simmons?

  Washington hosting Dallas. Hopefully we'll get two wins. We should parlay those together.

• 59:07Speaker 02

  Oh, I like that. Yes.

• 59:08Bill Simmons?

  Let's do it. So that's our multi-view choice. Thanks again to our friends at NFL Sunday Ticket. YouTube TV for sponsoring this part of today's episode. Don't miss a moment of the action when you bundle NFL Sunday Ticket and YouTube TV. Again, how much is it, House?

• 59:21Speaker 02

  Eighty-nine bucks.

• 59:22Bill Simmons?

  That's it. And you can sign up at youtube.com/BS and get it. Offer ends December 2nd. Local and national games on YouTube TV. NFL Sunday Ticket for out of market games. Excludes digital only games. Terms and embargoes apply. Device and content restrictions apply. All right, million dollar picks, week 12. I'm not happy with how we did last week considering we love the Broncos and Chargers. Both of those hit. We really liked the Colts and the Jets and somehow did the wrong bet. We did a bet with the Colts plus three and a half with Richardson's rushing. And then he had the ball a ton rushing and somehow didn't hit the thirty-eight and a half. And then we had the Chiefs in a tease. Chiefs up to plus eight and Chiefs plus three and a half, another tease.

• 1:00:06Bill Simmons?

  And that game was a one score game and they didn't win. I have no regrets about putting the Chiefs in the tease.

• 1:00:10Speaker 02

  No, no.

• 1:00:11Bill Simmons?

  I do regret listening to you on the Browns.

• 1:00:13Speaker 02

  That was a mistake. That was a mistake.

• 1:00:15Bill Simmons?

  We don't want to talk about it. We're, uh, we're moving on. So week 12, there's three games I like and a parlay I like. Which one do you want to hit first? The parlay or the three games?

• 1:00:26Speaker 02

  Let's, let's save the parlay for last. Parlay is like dessert, right? It's like the, the, the nice sundae at the end because we're taking all these nice parts and put them together.

• 1:00:35Bill Simmons?

  All right, so Schrager and I in part one of the podcast talked about this Packers Niners game. Packers are minus one and a half at home. They almost beat the Niners last year in the playoffs and really could have. They've been a team that we all kind of like from a talent standpoint that has not really totally put it together again, but what we have always seen perennially with the NFL, right around Thanksgiving time, somebody starts making a jump.

• 1:01:01Bill Simmons?

  And some people would think that's going to be the Niners and I just don't see it. I think it's been a year from hell. I didn't like the way McCaffrey looked last week at all. Kittle's banged up. Their defense isn't the same.

• 1:01:14Bill Simmons?

  And from a narrative standpoint, House, I could see this being a game where the Packers take care of business. We officially realize it's not the Niners year and we start thinking about this Packers team as a possible, all right, maybe they'll give the Lions a good game in the playoffs game. What don't you like about that narrative theory?

• 1:01:32Speaker 02

  That the Packers don't look like a team to me that can take care of business. They are messing around, playing around, effing around with their food.

• 1:01:42Bill Simmons?

  Playing with their food team.

• 1:01:43Speaker 02

  Every week. And I think it is because Jordan Love is not 100% healthy. We haven't had that real Jordan Love breakout game that became the hallmark of that Packers team the second half of last season that also coincided with Aaron Jones ripping off a bunch of honey yard. So they don't have, they have the back, it is Jacobs, but you know, they, we haven't seen sort of that two-headed monster. They get vertical with, with Jordan Love because he's got all the time to get to those receivers. The receivers, that core is still great. The receiving core is still great and Jacobs will get his yards sometimes in certain circumstances, but we haven't really seen the full rev of

• 1:02:28Bill Simmons?

  Can I give you the game that we, where we did see it? Cause it was a while ago.

• 1:02:32Speaker 02

  Let's hear it.

• 1:02:32Bill Simmons?

  Week six, Arizona, Love threw four TDs. They beat Arizona 34 to 13. We chalked it up to like, ah, wow, it's Arizona. Arizona's been really good since that game.

• 1:02:43Speaker 02

  Since then, yeah.

• 1:02:44Bill Simmons?

  And now I look back to that week six and I think. That was a pretty good win because then after that they play Houston, they win by two. They play at Jacksonville. They win by three. Kind of a stupid game. They play home against Detroit. They lose by 10, but Detroit's the best team in the league.

• 1:03:07Speaker 02

  Much worse than that.

• 1:03:08Bill Simmons?

  And then they play last week against Chicago and it was a play your with your food game against a team that had a new offensive coordinator. And I thought the Bears played really well in that game. But they did get it done at the end. So I guess my theory is they're a little undervalued. I think San Francisco is still a little overvalued because I think people keep waiting for the real San Francisco to show up and I'm not sure it's there. And maybe this is the week. I think they should be favored by two and a half or three. So I feel like I'm getting like a free point or point and a half.

• 1:03:38Speaker 02

  So the crazy thing is the line was two and a half earlier this week, but I think that was a hedge because the reports of of Purdy, Purdy was doing limited practice and he's got a sore shoulder. And there was a, you know, some speculation about whether or not he was going to play in this game. The fact that it's moved down to one and a half seems like some money's come in on the Niners that that suggests that Purdy's gonna gonna play. And and if that's the case.

• 1:04:05Bill Simmons?

  Injured George Kittle, who said he's gonna try to play.

• 1:04:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:04:09Bill Simmons?

  Well, that makes me nervous.

• 1:04:10Speaker 02

  What do we know? What do we think about Bosa?

• 1:04:12Bill Simmons?

  Juwan Jennings, Bosa, a little compromised.

• 1:04:15Speaker 02

  Well, Bosa, I mean, it it seems like it might be game time decision, whether he plays or not.

• 1:04:21Bill Simmons?

  And then in Lambeau against a team that feels like they should have beaten them last year and has something to prove. I like the spot for the Packers. I'm in on this bet.

• 1:04:29Speaker 02

  I'm gonna let you do it. We're not gonna have a disagreement.

• 1:04:32Bill Simmons?

  You're afraid, but you're afraid that you're still like a little afraid of the Niners.

• 1:04:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, because they have all that talent. We haven't seen McCaffrey yet.

• 1:04:40Bill Simmons?

  And that they also. But that's my point is I don't think McCaffrey's healthy.

• 1:04:45Speaker 02

  He may not be.

• 1:04:45Bill Simmons?

  So it's like you saying like, I don't, we haven't seen him beat yet. It's like, I don't know if we're seeing him beat for a while. Like, I don't think, to me, McCaffrey doesn't look like McCaffrey yet.

• 1:04:54Speaker 02

  I think that's kind of fair. I'm worried about seeing him this week.

• 1:05:00Bill Simmons?

  Packers minus one half, I'm marking that down. Cardinals Seahawks.

• 1:05:06Bill Simmons?

  Cardinals are getting one and a half in Seattle. There's some, some weather stuff maybe with this game that makes me a little nervous with Kyler Murray and bad weather. In general, the Seahawks going from seeming like their season was over last week, they get the huge drive from Gino against the Niners, which was another bad sign with the Niners that they gave up that long Gino drive. And, uh, and now they're playing the Cardinals at home this week and they have a chance to really reinsert themselves in this race. We have Seattle bets from before the season. Think I might even have them to win the NFC West, which could be still live, but they win this game. I'm a Cardinals believer. I think they're good. I, they really won me over the last few weeks. And the thing I like about this house is you have Seattle's defense 27th against the run.

• 1:05:51Bill Simmons?

  And Arizona with this physical pounding running game they have with James Connor, I just feel like they can run the ball, run the ball, run the ball. And even if you're going to like Seattle in this game, then maybe it's an Arizona first bet, Seattle for the game, like plus 800 type thing, but I think Arizona can beat them. I think this, this is another narrative game to me where we come out of and go, Arizona, I think they're for real. At the same time, Seattle's ability to throw the ball and run the ball and come from behind, which they did last week scares me a little. So where do you stand?

• 1:06:22Speaker 02

  Um, it's a 50 50 game. We talked about this on, on East Coast Bias. Uh, Raheem Palmer and I were heads up. I preferred, uh, Arizona and the dream is on Seattle. My issue with Seattle is that is the least trustworthy offensive line in football. Each of the times that I've tried to come up with a basis for Seattle, you know, taking advantage of somebody. It's, it's born out of the idea that they can establish the run and they sometimes can, and sometimes can't, and most of the time can't. Part of the, the reason to prefer Seattle would be the return of DK Metcalf. And really, I mean, uh, Smith and Jigba has been incredible. Uh, both from a.

• 1:07:09Speaker 02

  Perspective, but most importantly, from a chemistry perspective with Gino. So the question for Arizona is can they put pressure on Gino because the splits are crazy with, with Gino when he has time? And that really was the thing that, that Seattle was able to take advantage of down the stretch against the Niners. No Bosa and Gino, you know, got really comfortable with the lanes he could run in and the lanes he could see to throw the ball in.

• 1:07:36Speaker 02

  I, I, it's a, I don't, I don't really have a strong feel. I express a preference for Arizona, but I certainly could see Seattle dreams said that in his, his model, these teams are dead even. So

• 1:07:48Bill Simmons?

  Interesting.

• 1:07:48Speaker 02

  It really does.

• 1:07:49Bill Simmons?

  Well, then we'll take the points. I just want to point out Seattle's last five of their last seven.

• 1:07:54Speaker 02

  Sure, sure.

• 1:07:54Bill Simmons?

  And came within one San Francisco stop, but that being six of seven.

• 1:07:58Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:07:59Bill Simmons?

  I, I'm happy to, to be wrong on this and if, if so, lose some money, but um, I like this Arizona team. I think they know who they are and they can run the ball and I think they'll be able to pressure Gino and make a couple of mistakes and I just think they're better.

• 1:08:15Speaker 02

  It's just a defense for Arizona. That's all. They've been on the right side of, of like variance, a bunch of like games that they've won by one or two points.

• 1:08:22Bill Simmons?

  21st pass defense and Seattle is second with the pass. And as you mentioned, Smith and Jigbo has been a, been a revelation the last few weeks. He was awesome in that last game. Like they were going over and over again. I'm going to mark the Cardinals down.

• 1:08:36Speaker 02

  That's fine.

• 1:08:37Bill Simmons?

  Ravens Chargers. My first sense of thing was I really liked the Chargers. And the more I stared at it and the more I stared at it, I keep coming back to this question. Are the Ravens really going to go seven and five? That's going to be their record after, after week 12, they'd be seven and five.

• 1:08:56Speaker 02

  I don't want to do this because we had a conversation at the very beginning of the season. We were looking at teams after week one and said, here's the list of teams. You know, we were looking for some, some, there were some giant lines out there and we were like, are the Ravens really going to go 0-2? Are the Ravens going to lose to the Raiders?

• 1:09:15Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:15Speaker 02

  And the mother.

• 1:09:16Bill Simmons?

  They did it.

• 1:09:17Speaker 02

  They did it. Those sons of bitches. So I don't want that to be the rationale.

• 1:09:21Bill Simmons?

  Well, can I give you this? They have four losses. They lost to Kansas City on the Isaiah likely stepped on six inches of the line game. They blew that Vegas game where they're up 10 in the fourth quarter. And that's the weirdest result of the year. I would put it against any other game. They dropped the game winning interception in Cleveland. The fucking guy dropped it.

• 1:09:43Bill Simmons?

  And Jameis ends up going down and getting it, but they, he just threw them an interception. They didn't catch it. And the Pittsburgh game was stupid. I mean, I loved it because I had Pittsburgh, but missed multiple field goals. Like it was just one of those games.

• 1:09:56Speaker 02

  It's what happens. It's a, that's what happens, but in those games.

• 1:10:00Bill Simmons?

  And then I look at the Chargers, who I think are a really good team. For, you know, as a home team, I get it. I had them last week, but um. I feel like the, the Ravens can just run on them and move the ball. And you think about how easily Borough was able to just move the ball in the second half against the Chargers. Why wouldn't Baltimore be able to do that?

• 1:10:21Speaker 02

  That, that's the thing to me. So I don't think the Chargers are a really good team. I think they are.

• 1:10:26Bill Simmons?

  Maybe I should have said a really good surprise team.

• 1:10:28Speaker 02

  They're exactly perfect. Perfect way to put it because it is incredible. They tried their goddamnedest to charger the F out of that game.

• 1:10:37Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:10:37Speaker 02

  But, but Harbaugh and then whatever's going on inside the locker room with those guys, they just did enough to not charger the outcome of that game. But I thought that what we saw in the second half, when Cincinnati, I mean, it really was a game where like whoever has the ball at the end of this game is going to win this epic game. And they could not, under any circumstances, slow down that Cincinnati offense, slow down Joe Burrow. And I really think that, uh, which one's the younger, who, which is, is.

• 1:11:11Bill Simmons?

  I thought Jim was older. Jim's older, I think.

• 1:11:16Speaker 02

  And Jim is the Charger coach, right?

• 1:11:18Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Oh my God, House. Really?

• 1:11:22Speaker 02

  No, I think John's older. That's why you're confusing me. I'm pretty sure John's older.

• 1:11:27Bill Simmons?

  I'm confusing you. You thought Jim Harbaugh was maybe not the Chargers coach.

• 1:11:31Speaker 02

  That was a.

• 1:11:32Bill Simmons?

  John Harbaugh, older brother.

• 1:11:36Speaker 02

  I think it's John.

• 1:11:37Bill Simmons?

  John Harbaugh is older. Good call.

• 1:11:39Speaker 02

  There we go. He tried to make fun of me because I don't know which was is which. Um, big brother, little brother. I like it. It's a rematch of the Super Bowl. Big brother had his way. I, I, I.

• 1:11:50Bill Simmons?

  So you're saying if you coached against either of your black sheep brothers?

• 1:11:54Speaker 02

  Oh, my God.

• 1:11:54Bill Simmons?

  It's a guaranteed win? Just back house with any money line?

• 1:11:58Speaker 02

  Not only that, but I would be looking for an opportunity to put my nuts on their forehead. Absolutely. Possibly. There be no doubt. These nuts.

• 1:12:06Bill Simmons?

  We might have to have both of the house brothers on at some point, just so people know they exist.

• 1:12:10Speaker 02

  I, I can assure you they're available.

• 1:12:12Bill Simmons?

  Wait, would Dick House ever come on or would we have to put on a seven second delay?

• 1:12:16Speaker 02

  Definitely with delay. Yes. Yes, for sure.

• 1:12:20Bill Simmons?

  Well, Baltimore.

• 1:12:22Speaker 02

  I, I love the Ravens. I mean, the, you know, we can cut to the chase.

• 1:12:25Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, because they have the 30 second pass defense. But what, what we saw from the Chargers last week, their receivers. They're okay. They're really getting, they're eking out the most they can get out of it, but there's still some moments where like, oh yeah, that's right. You're Josh Palmer.

• 1:12:42Speaker 02

  And, and oh yeah, that's right. You're Justin Herbert. Remember? Like for a quarter and a half? Like, yeah, right. I, we know who you are, buddy. We know all, you've got the great.

• 1:12:53Bill Simmons?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:12:53Speaker 02

  I don't want to, I don't want to talk this.

• 1:12:55Bill Simmons?

  Made the nerds mad now. Don't make the nerds mad.

• 1:12:56Speaker 02

  I actually like him. I think he's a like terrific and, and all the reports, like he's a golf guy. Like I'm into Justin Herbert.

• 1:13:03Bill Simmons?

  I like that shot they had before the game of him, Harbaugh pounding his pads and just yelling at him and he was just kind of like.

• 1:13:09Speaker 02

  I'm into Herbert, but he'll, he'll disappear for a quarter in a heartbeat. Let there be no doubt.

• 1:13:14Bill Simmons?

  I just can't get past the Ravens going seven and five seems crazy to me and I, I think they're going to be able to move the ball up and down. The Chargers, Mac didn't play last week. The Chargers defense doesn't seem as crazy good as it was five, six weeks ago to me.

• 1:13:27Speaker 02

  I agree.

• 1:13:28Bill Simmons?

  All right. That's our third one.

• 1:13:30Speaker 02

  I like the Ravens.

• 1:13:30Bill Simmons?

  And then, uh, I really want to work the Broncos into something. The Broncos are, that line is now up to six and a half in Vegas.

• 1:13:38Speaker 02

  No way. No, can't do that. That's way too many points.

• 1:13:41Bill Simmons?

  Well, we're gonna put them in a parlay.

• 1:13:43Speaker 02

  Thank God. That's a relief.

• 1:13:45Bill Simmons?

  Vegas's offense, this is really something. So Amir Abdullah was trending as a roster trend in fantasy leagues this week because he has a chance to be the running. And I was like, Amir Abdullah, feels like he's been around a while. He's 31.

• 1:13:59Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:14:00Bill Simmons?

  I would have, I would have guessed like 25. So he's like almost Zeke Elliott's age. Um, he's gonna be the running back, their quarterback situations in debacle. They have no receivers.

• 1:14:09Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:14:10Bill Simmons?

  It's just Brock Bowers over and over again.

• 1:14:13Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:14:13Bill Simmons?

  Which I'm pretty sure Sean Payton is aware of Brock Bowers. I'm, I don't know how the Raiders, Denver's defense, it's first yards per play, second sacks, third hits. Vegas can't block. Uh, I get that it's in Vegas, but, and, and you also have Denver coming off a big win last week. But, um, I just don't see how, I think Vegas might be done. They might be a short for the rest of the year until we get to some sort of weird Christmas situation. So Broncos with the Chiefs in Carolina. They're favored by 10 and a half.

• 1:14:44Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:14:44Bill Simmons?

  Chiefs coming off a loss.

• 1:14:46Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:14:47Bill Simmons?

  Carolina's defense, 32nd against the run and 31st on first downs. Just feels like the Chiefs will move the ball and do chief stuff. So Chiefs down to minus two and a half, Broncos money line. And then your team.

• 1:15:02Bill Simmons?

  The Washington commanders, AKA the C words.

• 1:15:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:15:05Bill Simmons?

  Favored by 10 and a half against Cowboys.

• 1:15:09Bill Simmons?

  Can we, can we just have them win by three? Can we have Casey win by three, Washington wins by three and the Broncos win? That is plus 103 on FanDuel and I would like to do it.

• 1:15:19Speaker 02

  I love it. That's a, that's a dessert parlay. Three nice ingredients pulled together to make beautiful harmony in our, in our, in our mouths if it was a, so what are you doing for your, for your dessert? Are you a pumpkin pie guy for Thanksgiving dessert? What are you putting in your mouth for that?

• 1:15:38Bill Simmons?

  I love pumpkin pie, but I also really love pecan pie.

• 1:15:41Speaker 02

  Oh, great.

• 1:15:42Bill Simmons?

  And what I like to do is, is get a slice of each and then eat both and even mix the bites.

• 1:15:48Speaker 02

  Let me, let me recommend that you add one more because this is, oh, have you had sweet potato pie?

• 1:15:54Bill Simmons?

  Oh, sweet potato pie is great.

• 1:15:55Speaker 02

  Magnificent.

• 1:15:56Bill Simmons?

  I would totally add that. So you're going a menage a pie.

• 1:15:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, forget it, man. We can do this in, in, in proper Thanksgiving style.

• 1:16:06Bill Simmons?

  That sounds great.

• 1:16:07Speaker 02

  I want to give out my, all of my thanks to those beautiful pies.

• 1:16:10Bill Simmons?

  Sweet potato pie, pumpkin pie.

• 1:16:12Speaker 02

  And pecan pie.

• 1:16:13Bill Simmons?

  And pecan pie altogether.

• 1:16:15Speaker 02

  I want to F-bomb that one.

• 1:16:17Bill Simmons?

  Call that one the Joe House is asleep on the couch pie. Cause that's what would happen about 14 minutes after.

• 1:16:23Speaker 02

  That's a pie, that's a full pie parlay. That's what that is. We're getting the pies ready. Everybody's getting the ingredients. Everybody's, you know, going to the store this weekend to pull it together. We'll be going to the store this weekend with all the extra money in our pockets from that delicious pie parlay, baby.

• 1:16:38Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, that's our, we'll make that the pie parlay. I was thinking, I watch The Sopranos every night before I go to bed because my wife's asleep. And, uh, and so I, I finished season four, five, six, seven, and then I was like, you know what? I don't, I, I'm going to stay with these guys. I circle back, started with one of them. So Pine Barrens was on last night.

• 1:16:56Speaker 02

  Oh, my God.

• 1:16:57Bill Simmons?

  Which, you know, is the legendary Sopranos episode.

• 1:16:59Speaker 02

  You can't really go to bed after you watch that.

• 1:17:00Bill Simmons?

  No, I, I was so fired up.

• 1:17:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:17:03Bill Simmons?

  And I was like, I'll watch 20 minutes. I didn't watch the whole thing.

• 1:17:07Bill Simmons?

  But they're in the car and Chris finds the ketchup packets and he gives them the ketchup packets and there's relish. And Paulie Walnuts, who's the funniest character of all time. I think he's funny in any comedy guy. And he's eating the ketchup and he's like, mix it with the relish. Mix it with the relish, with the ketchup packets and the relish packets. And that's what made me think of the pumpkin pie, sweet potato pie, pecan pie is the Paulie Walnuts, mix it with the relish dessert extravaganza. Mix it, mix it with the relish, Chrissy.

• 1:17:38Speaker 02

  It's outrageous.

• 1:17:39Bill Simmons?

  I'm going to lose my foot.

• 1:17:41Speaker 02

  Before we go, before we move on, you don't have any interest in, um, this Philadelphia LA Rams game? I, I, cause folks are, you know, um, I see, I've seen some, some arguments on both sides and people are really arguing. Ta, you know, be careful. It's a be careful situation and, you know, especially Jalen Hurts, these nuts, you, you know, you want to, you don't want to be in this.

• 1:18:04Bill Simmons?

  To me, it's, to me, I had it marked down as a stay away.

• 1:18:08Speaker 02

  Okay, okay.

• 1:18:09Bill Simmons?

  Because, uh, I thought the Pats absolutely could have beaten the Rams last week and they did some of the dumbest shit. We blitzed Stafford the whole game. There were stats afterwards, after Sal and I did the pod, that they single covered Cup and Nakua basically all game, which guess how that turned out terribly. Mayo was just couldn't have been less aggressive in the worst possible situations. And, and yet the, the Pats had the ball with a chance to win the game. I just didn't think the Rams looked that good.

• 1:18:38Speaker 02

  I'm, I'm, I'm with you and I keep waiting for it. Well, that, that, that's it. Especially, you know, the, uh, Jalen Hurts these nuts has not been as accurate. He is running great. His, his legs look, look great, but here's the, the test and why I understand why people are advocating in favor of the Rams.

• 1:18:56Bill Simmons?

  Well, they're home, they're home dogs. First of all, they're plus two and a half.

• 1:19:00Speaker 02

  And the Eagles secondary deserves, um, the plaudits that's receiving from, from the, the draft or those two rookies. They've been playing very well, but this is an entirely different class of offense, if this offense really gets going, um, that the Eagles are up against. So I just wanted to make sure we talked through it. Didn't have a conviction on it.

• 1:19:19Bill Simmons?

  So the case is they, they kinda went straightforward last week because they knew they had the Pats game, knowing this Eagles game is coming. McVay against Fangio. This is a kitchen sink game. I, that's one of the reasons I like the Ravens. I think the Ravens, it's a kitchen sink game.

• 1:19:36Speaker 02

  Love it.

• 1:19:36Bill Simmons?

  Cause you're seven and five, you're out of the AFC North. Now you might be like a six seed, you know, and you, you kinda need to, you need the game and the, uh,

• 1:19:49Speaker 02

  Yeah. Cause the six seed is going to get either Buffalo or the Chiefs in the first round of the playoffs. Lord have mercy.

• 1:19:55Bill Simmons?

  And the Rams need every game because they're in a dogfight with all those NFC West teams. So I do wonder if like, that's why it's a stay away though, because I could talk myself into each side. There was one other game I really liked. You're going to make fun of me.

• 1:20:11Bill Simmons?

  The Pats are plus 310 in Miami.

• 1:20:14Speaker 02

  I'm not making fun of you. I think it's funny. I think that that line's crazy. I understand it, but man, I'm not betting against Drake May. Give me, let me have Drake May and a touchdown. That's fine. Is it seven or seven and a half?

• 1:20:29Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. So I was wondering, is there, is there? I mean, they're, they're so stupidly coached that I almost feel like you should take the money line and just-

• 1:20:38Speaker 02

  Wait, which team?

• 1:20:39Bill Simmons?

  The, but, well, both teams. But there's like, uh, you can get May for 200 plus yards. The Pats to win the game.

• 1:20:52Bill Simmons?

  And Drake May, two passing touchdowns is six to one.

• 1:20:59Bill Simmons?

  Drake May, one passing TD, 200 yards passing, Pats win the game is plus 411, which doesn't really buy you that much value from the plus 310. I just didn't know if there was some sort of Drake May with the Pats bet that we wanted to think about.

• 1:21:14Speaker 02

  I'll let you think about it. I'm gonna, I know that I'll just play the side on the Pats. Uh, I'm not laying those points with the Dolphins. It's crazy.

• 1:21:21Bill Simmons?

  You're not laying the seven. Do you like the seven with the Pats? Or do you like the plus 310 fuck it bet?

• 1:21:27Speaker 02

  No, no, I prefer the, the, the, the points.

• 1:21:31Bill Simmons?

  The plus seven?

• 1:21:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, I prefer the plus seven.

• 1:21:33Bill Simmons?

  All right. All right, it's time. Million Dollar Picks, week 12, heading into Thanksgiving, House's favorite day of the year. Is anything even close to Thanksgiving for you?

• 1:21:42Speaker 02

  No, nothing rivals it.

• 1:21:45Bill Simmons?

  I think you, I have a lot of people in my life who love Thanksgiving, including me, including nephew Kyle. You're number one. You love it the most. I've seen you be, be worried that you might have to be driven to the hospital because you ate too much. You passed out multiple times. You drink too much, you eat too much. If you, if you die from overeating and overdrinking, it will be on Thanksgiving.

• 1:22:07Speaker 02

  Everybody will understand and say-

• 1:22:09Bill Simmons?

  They'll be like, House died. Was it Thanksgiving? It was.

• 1:22:15Bill Simmons?

  Million Dollar Picks, Week 12. We lost $355,000 last week and it was really because of the Chiefs, because they didn't cover a couple of teases.

• 1:22:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:22:22Bill Simmons?

  I'm fine with it.

• 1:22:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:22:23Bill Simmons?

  It was, did you say it was the fifth time in 124 games that the Chiefs have lost by more than eight points? It's fine. We were on the wrong side of a historic event. We are still up $413,000 for the season house. And we're gonna put 200K on the following bets. The Baltimore Ravens, minus three, on the road against the LA Chargers. Are the Ravens gonna go seven and five? I don't think so. Can they throw all over the place to the Chargers? I do think so. Is there a big brother getting revenge on his little brother? House, you're a big brother.

• 1:22:59Speaker 02

  I mean, it's not even getting revenge, it's just taking advantage of what's rightfully yours.

• 1:23:04Bill Simmons?

  Right, you were first.

• 1:23:05Speaker 02

  It's your little brother, so exactly right.

• 1:23:07Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, you were first and that's it.

• 1:23:09Speaker 02

  That's all.

• 1:23:09Bill Simmons?

  Chargers, great win last week.

• 1:23:12Speaker 02

  Great win.

• 1:23:12Bill Simmons?

  Some holes, some things that we saw we didn't love. I just think the Ravens, they're not going seven and five, it's too ridiculous. They've already had four dumb losses, they're not gonna have five. Ravens minus three, that's our first one. Cardinals, plus one and a half in Seattle. Seattle, a great, somewhat lucky win against a banged up Niners team that last week to save their season. I think the Cardinals run the ball all over the Seahawks. I like their defense, I think they lose that game in Week 6 to the Packers. And since then, I like the way they look, House, I think they're gonna win the division. We're both in.

• 1:23:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, Cardinals coming off the bye week, and if you look at the last 10 games of the Seahawks at home, their against the spread numbers are not very good at home. The 12th man might need to step it up a little bit.

• 1:24:02Bill Simmons?

  12th man in trouble, maybe roommates with Joel Embiid. Packers at home, minus one and a half against the Niners. Almost beat them last year in the playoffs, couldn't do it. Catching a Niners team at a really nice time. I think this is a shell of the Niners team we think it is.

• 1:24:22Speaker 02

  You're on your own on this one.

• 1:24:23Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I know.

• 1:24:24Speaker 02

  You're on your own with this one.

• 1:24:24Bill Simmons?

  You're not against it, but you're letting me, you're letting me do a guitar solo.

• 1:24:28Speaker 02

  That's it.

• 1:24:30Bill Simmons?

  I believe in the talent on this Packers team. They killed Arizona in week six. I think they're due for another really good game. Fans are gonna be fired up. Atmosphere is gonna be great. Weather won't be awesome. I like the spot. Packers minus one and a half. So put 200K on all three of those. And then we have a little parlay for you. Bring in the Chiefs and Carolina down to minus two and a half. Bring in your Washington Seawords against the carcass of the Dallas Cowboys down to two and a half at home. And then the Denver Broncos, a team that did us really nicely last week, that we've won some money on this year. That we really appreciate. Bo Nix making a run at Offensive Player of the Year with your guy, Jaden Daniels.

• 1:25:10Speaker 02

  Fine.

• 1:25:11Bill Simmons?

  We're gonna take the Broncos money line in Vegas against a terrible Vegas team. You put those three together, Broncos money line, Chiefs minus two and a half, Washington minus two and a half, plus 103.

• 1:25:23Speaker 02

  Good.

• 1:25:24Bill Simmons?

  200K on that?

• 1:25:26Speaker 02

  200K on that. Yes, sir. It is the pie parlay after all.

• 1:25:30Bill Simmons?

  And then last but not least, because it's Thanksgiving and House is feeling generous. He's allowing me to do a Drake May parlay because I love Drake May.

• 1:25:37Speaker 02

  This is the Drake May podcast. He doesn't need a player pod. This is it.

• 1:25:41Bill Simmons?

  Well, the line's too high. And this Pats team might be deficient in certain areas. They might be poor the coach.

• 1:25:49Speaker 02

  Maybe.

• 1:25:50Bill Simmons?

  They might make them mistakes every week, but they almost beat the Rams last week. And I think it's worth a flyer. Pats plus seven and a half.

• 1:25:58Speaker 02

  Good. Like the extra hook. That's a nice one.

• 1:26:01Bill Simmons?

  Drake May 200 plus passing yards.

• 1:26:04Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:26:05Bill Simmons?

  Drake May over 26.5 rushing yards. That's two scrambles.

• 1:26:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:26:09Bill Simmons?

  Roll them out.

• 1:26:10Speaker 02

  Maybe in the first half.

• 1:26:12Bill Simmons?

  Drake May, one passing touchdown, just one.

• 1:26:14Speaker 02

  Okay, okay.

• 1:26:15Bill Simmons?

  Plus 341, we are putting 50K on that.

• 1:26:20Speaker 02

  50K. Good number. That's right. Good number.

• 1:26:23Bill Simmons?

  It's a little sprinkling.

• 1:26:24Speaker 02

  The Drake May's full facial.

• 1:26:27Bill Simmons?

  Well, it's the Drake May, almost like the pie parlay you talked about earlier. Pecan pie, sweet potato pie, pumpkin pie. That's Drake May 200 plus yards, over 26 and a half rushing yards, one plus passing touchdowns. Hop on the Drake May bandwagon right now. Those are the million dollar picks for week 12. House, happy weekend before Thanksgiving. Great to see you. And we'll see you on the Ringer Sunday Pregame Show on Sunday on YouTube TV and Fanduel TV before of the action. Thanks for being on.

• 1:26:57Speaker 02

  Can't wait. Thanks, buddy.

• 1:27:01Bill Simmons?

  All right. That's it for the podcast. Thanks to Steve Sarudi and Kyle Crichton. As always, thanks to Joe House and Chris Ryan. Don't forget Ringer Sunday pregame. That show is going on on YouTube TV and FanDuel TV on Sunday. Maybe I'll even pop on for a second. Who knows? And don't forget about a new Rewatch was coming on Monday. It is a movie from the 1980s. I'll give you some hints over the weekend on the Rewatch. Most Twitter feed. Enjoy the weekend. I will see you on Sunday night.

• 1:27:54Bill Simmons?

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