How Men Can Survive The Modern Dating World - Hamza

Hamza is a personal development coach and a YouTuber. Many young guys would rather watch porn and play video games than connect with the real world. This creates swathes of lonely, disconnected men and leaves women with fewer and fewer good options in the dating market. Meanwhile, Red Pill YouTube and the Manosphere can be a negative influence which keeps men stuck and demonises women, rather than helping everyone become better, happier, more attractive people. Expect to learn the biggest mistakes Hamza made when improving himself, why Fresh & Fit need to take food out of their mouth, Hamza's thoughts on Britney Spears getting naked on Instagram, how to avoid being Black Pilled with a growth mindset, if Hamza thinks the future of dating will be polygamous, why the manosphere sees women as the enemy, Hamza's reaction to Mikhaila Peterson and Rollo Tomassi's debate and much more... Sponsors: Join the Modern Wisdom Community to connect with me & other listeners - https://modernwisdom.locals.com/ Get 15% discount on Craftd London’s jewellery at https://bit.ly/cdwisdom (use code MW15) Get a Free Sample Pack of all LMNT Flavours at https://www.drinklmnt.com/modernwisdom (discount automatically applied) Extra Stuff: Subscribe to Hamza on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/Hamza97 Get my free Reading List of 100 books to read before you die → https://chriswillx.com/books/ To support me on Patreon (thank you): https://www.patreon.com/modernwisdom #redpill #dating #hamza - 00:00 Intro 02:57 The Problem with No Fap 10:47 Coping with the Difficulties of Self-Improvement 23:25 Reacting to Britney Spears 30:18 Thoughts on Red Pill YouTube 52:01 Is the Future Polyamorous? 1:08:12 Does Everyone Have the Same Potential for Growth? 1:17:38 Where to Find Hamza - Join the Modern Wisdom Community on Locals - https://modernwisdom.locals.com/ Listen to all episodes on audio: Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/2MNqIgw Spotify: https://spoti.fi/2LSimPn - Get in touch in the comments below or head to... Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chriswillx Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/chriswillx Email: https://chriswillx.com/contact/

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Your competition right now for the average guy who's watching this, who jacks off five times a week and he plays video games for like one hour a day, but it's more like four. The thing is, if you do a push up today, you have literally beaten 500 million men. How can that not blow your mind? And if you go and do like a good structured program, you're beating pretty much every single guy.

• 0:21Chris Williamson?

  I think that the dating YouTube space at the moment is totally fascinating and it's fragmenting into loads of little subgroups at the moment. How would you categorize the content that you make? What's the purpose of the stuff that you put out on YouTube?

• 0:37Speaker 00

  It's a holistic self-improvement. I love that term more than like, I've, I've taken a bit from everywhere, right? I've done the full like hardcore red pill type of stuff. I've ventured into the black pill. So other people don't have to go and look at their content, but I found that there's, there's never really like a healthy mix between them. A lot of them will just focus like just solely on women, seeing them as the enemy, trying to be sexist towards them or aggressive towards them. A lot of them just focus on like nihilism and like this sense of like hopelessness. And I don't think any one pill or space online really combines anything together to give like a young man the, the framework for like a healthy life going forward revolving around good relationships. And I love the term holistic self-improvement, which is just, okay, let's, why not, why don't we all just improve as much as we can? So of course we'll try and up our SMB, we'll

• 1:22Speaker 00

  try and like attract more women and everything, but why not do that alongside things like healthy mental health practices, gratitude, mindfulness, learning things about like our childhood trauma and how that shapes our dating life.

• 1:33Chris Williamson?

  You're right. There's no one pill that's got all of the answers within it and you can learn bits by bouncing between them, but it seems like the, the most toxic communities are the ones where someone's got into it and then never ever left.

• 1:48Speaker 00

  Oh, that was me being the red pill for like seven years. You can like, I think you've, you've taken it as well. Like you can really, really go deep inside one of these. And when you stop questioning the reliability, the accuracy of what like, you know, the information that you consume, you can sow, you can put like such a hindrance on your growth.

• 2:09Chris Williamson?

  Well, that's how cults work. That is precisely how cults work, that you have this leader, the leader's word cannot be questioned. All of the followers that get co-opted in, they all just believe because you're supposed to believe. And nobody questions anybody's words. And that lack of critical thinking causes that. Think about what cults do. They wrap people around, it's a geographical location, but also an ideological location. They don't permit them to grow.

• 2:34Speaker 00

  Have you seen my Instagram bio?

• 2:36Chris Williamson?

  No, what's it say?

• 2:38Speaker 00

  I've just changed as a cult leader.

• 2:41Chris Williamson?

  Maybe that's why you know what I'm on about.

• 2:43Speaker 00

  Well, I did some research on like cults and religions and I wanted to create like the first healthy cult. Where you actually like voluntarily come in, I voluntarily like tell you, yeah, you're joining a cult. We're a cult of young men who don't faff anymore, like who is trying to like reduce our drug usage.

• 2:58Chris Williamson?

  Talk to me about no faff.

• 3:02Speaker 00

  I think the online space has got this different perception of what it is, in my opinion. I think a lot of people think like it is, you know, the levitation and it's gonna make you amazing and everything. And you certainly will see a very, very significant change in your life if you're one of those like hardcore wankers. Who like who are going multiple times a day, messed up porn and everything, which to be honest, like, there's a fair amount of guys. And I have the authenticity to say, yeah, 100%, I was not that messed up, but like I was one of those guys, right? And so when you go from this, like multiple times a day to like not, maybe let's say once every three days, you're masturbating. There's quite a big difference. And that's like, I think as far as a lot of the benefit does go. After that, this like this, again, this cult online, which is telling you, okay, if you ever touch a dick again.

• 3:45Speaker 00

  Like that's, that's the perception that they're pushing on to young, young men. If you faff again, you've lost the benefits. Which that, that blows my mind because that's so unhealthy to tell young guys. It's like telling a beast guy, okay, yeah, get into, get into the gym, get into the gym. You should go every day. If you miss a day, you lose all of the progress. That's, that's heartless, man. That's so like, I've come across more young men who have been pained by no faff. Than who have just like got problems with like porn and masturbation. Yeah. Because they get like this, this existential crisis where now they feel like more of a loser because they keep failing no faff. And it's just like simple habit science. I always ask them the question like, when, when did you start jacking off? And they'll say, you know, age 13, they're 19 right now.

• 4:29Speaker 00

  So six years you've been building up this habit, you found no fap a few weeks ago. Six years you've been building it up and you just think you're gonna break the habit just like that. It's like, at least for me, it took me about five years to get onto like no fap where like I just, it's honestly like, it's not in my life at all, I don't even think about it. I often forget that porn and masturbation is the thing. But I was so hard on myself for the first like year or so, thinking like I should get to day ninety or something. Because it's not just about like, you know, the discipline and willpower. It's about, bro, like we've been building up this habit for like ten years, man. It's like, it's gonna take some time to like produce it down.

• 5:01Chris Williamson?

  I wonder how many people would benefit from no fap that aren't like pathological fappers. The people who aren't completely addicted and see it as a vice. Because one of the things that I've realised recently is that with a lot of the things we do, that we don't like ourselves for doing, let's say it's using our phone too much, or maybe it's junk eating on a night time or whatever it might be. I would say that less than fifty percent of the problem is the actual activity that you do. And most of the problem comes from the story that you tell yourself about the type of person you are for having done that action. So a lot of the benefits that I think we get from going through any type of personal development,

• 5:39Chris Williamson?

  actually comes from a reframing around capturing our own agency to do with that particular action. Do you know what I mean?

• 5:47Speaker 00

  Yeah, very, very well said. That's like, it's like this bell curve where at first you don't really think that the original thing is the problem, the vice is the problem. So masturbation or let's say the junk food. Eventually you start to see people talk about, you know, quitting it and everything. Okay, this is when you hate the thing. You hate the thing, but you can't stop it. And so there's often this negative mental wellbeing stage when you're trying to start a new. Which everyone kind of knows, which is like when you finally start thinking, okay, I've got to go to the gym, I've got to lose weight, I've got to do this. It's like, you just feel like shit for a little while because you hate the thing, but you still have a habit or even an addiction to the thing. And you've actually brought up like a fantastic point recently. I've been thinking that potentially the best way to actually improve things like this with a no fap or healthy eating.

• 6:30Speaker 00

  It's actually way more about the self-image and like the beliefs that we have about ourselves more than it actually is. Do you know, like the stereotypical advice of like, oh, like, you know, install the website blocker and like, don't buy the junk food and everything because. If you just kind of like hide the stuff away from you, like it's like a child just saying, oh, I can't, I can't see the porn anymore. So I can't be addicted or like, you know, I didn't buy the junk food. So I can't eat it anymore. But it's, it's more if me, you, me and you have a chocolate bar in front of us right now, we're probably not going to eat it. Because it's just, it doesn't really align with our identity. We're going to think, oh, it's just not, I don't want to put it onto my fitness pile and just have the regret there. Like, oh, yeah. 400 calories for a month, bro.

• 7:05Chris Williamson?

  Speak for yourself, man. I'm not, I'm not tracking at the moment. I can eat whatever the fuck I want. So I had, I had Charlie Hoopit from Charisma on command on the show earlier this week. And, uh, we were talking about the fact that there is a tension between assisting yourself to not do the things that you don't want to do by hiding them away from you. Or by creating constraints in your life. So you don't want to play League of Legends. So you snap the game in half and delete your Xbox account or whatever. And there is a question, look.

• 7:32Speaker 00

  I know that you're not a gamer because you just said that.

• 7:35Speaker 00

  Any gamer who's listening to you right now is like.

• 7:37Chris Williamson?

  Well, is it PC only?

• 7:39Speaker 00

  Snap the game in half.

• 7:41Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, snap your PC in half.

• 7:45Chris Williamson?

  The problem that you have is that there is a part of you that feels defeated by that. Like, oh, I'm defeatist because I've assisted. So the same as you saying like, look. Is keeping the junk food out of the house actually putting a blinker over your eyes so that you can't deal with the underlying problem that's causing the junk eating in the first place? I would be tempted to say that you need to give yourself assistance in the first place. Like environment design is a huge part of habit building. And it's probably the case that the tools you get in the beginning that get you across the first river. Isn't the boat that you're supposed to carry across land to get you across the second river. It's like, look, the thing that you did that got you here isn't the thing that's going to get you there.

• 8:27Chris Williamson?

  So if you decide to assist yourself by putting a porn blocker on your laptop or getting rid of all of the junk food out of your house or doing whatever it might be, that's fine. And then that will allow you to at least gain some momentum when your ability to stick to the habit is its weakest. Then we start to build up, we start to build up. Okay. Now I've got a bit more capacity. I've got a bit more capacity and now maybe I can look to reintroduce looking at where does my compulsion to eat junk food on an evening come from? Oh, it's actually because I'm bored because I don't have anything to do. Maybe it's because I'm lonely. Oh, well, now that I've given myself room away from the junk food, I can actually start to fill that with something else.

• 9:05Speaker 00

  That's a really, really good point, actually, yeah. So the original environmental design, I often critique it, I often say, even though every scientist disagrees with me, they say, you know, like, willpower is limited. I'm like, I feel like I'm the one guy right now telling everyone, rely on willpower instead, because, like, in my story, like, the environmental design would never even work. Because it's this idea, okay, I can not buy the junk food inside the store, but then we've, we've already got some at home. I can, okay, I'll throw it all out, you know, it's one of those, I'm going on a diet, I'm gonna throw out the junk food, but then, like, my girlfriend's gonna come back home with, like, extra food. Or I go to, to work, and it's like, it's a customer service job at the time, so like, motherfuckers are bringing in, like, a lot of snacks and stuff, so I'm eating that.

• 9:42Speaker 00

  So it's like, if the idea is, like, you're gonna say no once inside of the shop, the thing is, if, if all you have is the environmental design, you, you probably aren't gonna manage the entire environment around you. Whereas it really is that level of willpower and even, like, the self-image, the belief that any given time, like, we, we have junk food in the house all the time. My family love that shit, but like, I walk past the kitchen, no problem, like, every single day for like two years, there's the stuff that I used to binge eat on. But the reason why is because I always tried to do this thing of like, no, no, you know, don't go into the kitchen, like, tell my dad not to buy the crisps. Eventually, I, I, I just, it's kind of like psychopathic, but I got my favorite snacks, just set them on the desk and just looked at them. And I don't think many people have done this, but like, oh, the weird thoughts that you get about yourself when you do that, like, seriously, you get the best snacks that you've ever gotten.

• 10:26Speaker 00

  Even drugs as well, so I did this with weed and I just put it on top of the table, just with a, like, notepad, so I journal in. And it just makes you feel like a crackhead, because you're like, oh, like, you know, like, okay, the experiment's done, so I can like-

• 10:36Chris Williamson?

  Writing a fucking ode to my drugs. I've got, I've written a poem, I'm outside of its window with a pair of roses.

• 10:43Speaker 00

  The boombox, isn't it?

• 10:48Chris Williamson?

  Talk to me, so you've mentioned there about this sort of, um, chasm of difficulty. You've got self-development depression is something that you talk about. What's that?

• 10:56Speaker 00

  Hmm, that's one of the first stages. It's like, essentially, let's say you're a normal person, you just kind of, all you know about self-improvement is like, oh yeah, like, go to the gym. But eventually you find the space online, you start finding the books of self-help and everything. Some people seem to get stuck in level one, and I think that- A fair amount of like healthy people seem to breeze past this stage. So the healthy people that I, for example, I've spoke to, I've coached. They'll find out about meditation, no fat, whatever, and they'll implement it fairly straightforward. Exercise, I'll tell them, okay, yeah, start exercising almost every single day. They'll do it, no problem. There's so many people who because it's only because of mental health that they're stuck in stage one, which is that they know what they should be doing. They just can't seem to do it. So for these people, for example, they would have had an idea, let's say, nice and simple to exercise.

• 11:42Speaker 00

  And they'll be like, oh, yeah, like, you know, today's the day I'm gonna exercise, right? You know, it feels really relevant. And then they'll look back and be like, wait. It's been three weeks since I watched that motivational video and I said I was gonna exercise again. They just, they fall straight into the same pa- patterns. We could grab this person, take them inside the gym with us. Make them do the best workout of their lives. They're so hyped and everything, like, you know, they're making some gains. They're not gonna come again for like the next month. And it's this self-improvement depression because they are now in the space of hearing about people like me and even you yourself. Who have made progress and we're talking about, you know, the fantastic like stuff that comes from this and everything. And they don't get to enjoy that. They just can't seem to get consistent in any of the habits. They can't seem to like make meditation work for them.

• 12:22Speaker 00

  They, you know, it doesn't work and everything. They've tried so many times. And it's a very, very depressing and like scary place to be because you feel quite vulnerable and like. You no longer are satisfied and oblivious to your old life of, you know, video games and porn and everything. But now you know the dangers of them. You've watched the videos, this, you know, they're all like, I used to play video games, but now I don't play video games. And look at me, everyone, I've got, I've got girls now. And like. Some little guys watching that thinking like, wait, but I want girls, but like, I can't, he can't, he can't um snap his League of Legends disc in half as you would.

• 12:51Chris Williamson?

  Exactly, exactly what you used to do. Are you familiar with Plato's allegory of the cave? Do you know that story?

• 12:59Speaker 00

  No.

• 12:59Chris Williamson?

  Okay, so Plato gives this story about um three men that are chained up inside of a cave and they're looking at a wall.

• 13:06Speaker 00

  Oh, the shadows.

• 13:07Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, the shadows on the wall, right? And then one of them gets freed. He goes out into the world. He suffers pain. He can't see because it's so bright. He's been in the darkness. And then eventually, after looking at the reflection of the world in the water, and then finally the world in its full color, he starts to see that, oh, wow, the previous world that I thought this was all that existed is only a mere shadow of what is available for us. And he comes back in to the cave. And then he looks at his friends. He's stumbling around. He can't see because he's now in darkness. He's back, he's regressed back to the previous version of himself to try and communicate between where he is and where the people that he wants to bring up with him is. And he says to them, look, guys, like, this isn't the real world. I promise you out there, there is something better. It's more blissful, it's fuller. And they're not happy. They said, look, you can't even see in here anymore.

• 13:52Chris Williamson?

  You can't see inside of the cave. This was supposed to be the place that you knew. And he can't see because he's seen what is true. He comes back. He's ostracized by the people that live at a lower resolution than him. And the argument from Plato is that this is the job of a philosopher. It's to try and peer through. It's to see what the truth is. And it's to then try and tell people who need to be leveled up from that. But there is a pain associated with that. If the, if true hell is when the person that you are meets the person that you could have been, every time that you get to see the person that you could be, continue to write, rise up. And you see that through YouTube videos with people that are doing things and crushing it and killing it and Instagram and models and da, blah. Every time that you see that, the ceiling of potential continues to move away.

• 14:36Chris Williamson?

  And you need to try and catch up with it now. So you just continue to feel this chasm between where you are and where you could be.

• 14:45Speaker 00

  Wow, and that's got to be painful.

• 14:49Speaker 00

  It kind of reminds me of the analogy of the crabs in a bucket mentality. So that's very common in self improvement, where the, one of the guys in the friendship group will find self improvement, start working on themselves and find that no one else seems to want to like, climb up in the same way. And it's, it's, it's just blows your mind because you want to go to your friend and say, look, boys, like I've been lifting some weights and I finally feel confident. You know, we're all nerds and stuff, but like, look at me, I have those biceps and stuff. And they'll make fun of you. They're like, not like, we don't do that type of stuff.

• 15:13Chris Williamson?

  Oh, that's fucking gay.

• 15:15Speaker 00

  Yeah, oh, like you go to the gym, that's gay, like, come on, man.

• 15:18Chris Williamson?

  That's the worst thing, dude, this is my least favorite thing about British, British culture. My least favorite thing by far, like, that tall poppy syndrome is holding so many young people back that could be amazing, that have got desires for growth, that want to go and do something different, but are terrified because every time they try to do something different, their immediate social circle takes the piss out of them.

• 15:39Speaker 00

  What's that, a tall poppy syndrome?

• 15:41Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, so you can imagine that you look in a field and there's a field of poppies and there's a tall one as you go through, which one are you going to chop down? The most likely one that you're going to chop down is the tall poppy, it's called tall poppy syndrome. I don't know the full history of it, I think it's an Australian term originally, but yeah, tall poppy syndrome, something sticks out, something grows faster than everything else, that's the one that gets chopped.

• 16:05Speaker 00

  So which one would you rather be, like amongst the masses and just kind of seeing the same thing as everyone else, or the one up here who kind of like lives fast, dies young?

• 16:12Chris Williamson?

  Dude, that's a good question, that's a genuinely good question. So when at the first ever time that I saw Jordan Peterson live, someone said to him, "The depth of my consciousness causes me to suffer. Is it a blessing or a curse to feel everything so deeply?" I'm like, this is a really fucking smart question, because a lot of the people that are in the audience, they've maybe started to step out of Plato's cave, they've started to look around and go, look, fuck, maybe, maybe there is more to life, but by taking that decision, you are inevitably going to suffer as well. And Jordan said, basically, you, the only solution would be to regress back to a lower state of consciousness, right, to go into some lower resolution version of the world.

• 16:53Chris Williamson?

  And a lot of people escape from their insights with drugs, with alcohol, with sex, with extreme sports. Sometimes people even take their own lives in an effort to try and get away from this, because they don't feel like they can find a solution. And he said, "Look, it's too bloody late to regress back. What you need to do is take more of the thing that poisons you until you turn it into a tonic that girdles the world around you." He's like, "You have not less consciousness, but more, you go deeper, you go further in." And I'm watching this thing and my hairs, even now, man, reciting it, the hairs stand up on the back of my neck, I'm like, that is so correct, you need to go deeper, you need to take more of the thing that you think is the challenge, and you turn it into a tonic that girdles the world around you.

• 17:39Speaker 00

  That's making me think of like the beginner who starts in the gym and the first workout just absolutely kills them. They're like, oh my god, you know, how do people do this? It's like, my, my, my muscles are so sore. And if they stop right now, or even in any sport like kickboxing reminds me of, if they stop right now, every single time they try to get back into the gym, they will feel the same pain or even worse than normal. And it's so interesting that the more you go, the less pain that you'll actually feel till eventually the pain actually becomes the pleasure. Like, like, we actually like, like, if my chest doesn't get sore, I'm like, oh, like, I guess I'm a little bit.

• 18:09Chris Williamson?

  This, I guess, I didn't even, yeah, I didn't even hit that shit.

• 18:12Speaker 00

  Now I'm like, oh, like, oh, my god, yes, boys, like, I'm, I'm finally feeling chest dumbs, whereas before, when you'd get them. Our perception of pain, especially in, in positive habits, is so, so skewed when you are at, like, when you're currently in Plato's uh cave. Because I'm, I'm guessing the, the first character, as he walked outside, his eyes is burning and everything.

• 18:34Chris Williamson?

  Can't see anything, yeah. And the first thing that he sees, he looks at the world through the reflection of a lake. So he walks and walks and walks until he hits a lake and then he doesn't see the world first. The first thing that he actually sees is a reflection of the world, right? Which is kind of like the way that shadows work. So he sees a lower resolution of a higher resolution thing. And then eventually, as his eyes finally begin to adjust, he's able to look around and see the sky and the trees and the birds and the grass. Um, so here's a fucking cool story. There's a place in Austin called Kuya, which is a uh ketamine psychotherapy. N A D I V, vitamin I V recovery centre that has sauna and cold bath.

• 19:15Chris Williamson?

  And you do what's called contrast therapy. So you go into a sauna that goes up to two hundred and thirty degrees. And then you get into a cold tub, a single cold tub, up to your neck, hands, wrists, full works. And it's just above freezing. It's like three, three to six degrees Celsius. Um, and when you're in the cold tub. It's a very unique kind of pain because there's nothing to distract yourself. You know, when you're doing a workout, the pain is relative to the effort that you're putting in. This is completely passive pain. It's simply because you're sitting there and it's short. You're only in there for three minutes, three or four minutes, right? But if you can sit and just think about the sensation that you're feeling when you sit in the cold water, it stops being pain, it stops even being cold.

• 20:00Chris Williamson?

  It's no longer cold. It's this bizarre, electric, sort of like, it feels like lemon. It feels like all of these things that kind of wrap around the sensation that have fuck all to do with cold, electricity and citrus and shit. And dude, it's the best mindfulness exercise, just sitting in there and feeling your own compulsion to want to get out, to breathe, to feel pain, to feel pleasure. It's wild.

• 20:27Speaker 00

  I was gonna say, as you were telling me that story, that just sounds like pure mindfulness training there, like as in cold showers. If you try to fight the pain, fight the cold off, it's so much worse. But it's so weird that if you submit yourself to the cold, if you allow it, suddenly like it's not as good. It's the same with exercise and everything that we do. The pain only is suffering if you fight it.

• 20:53Speaker 00

  But if you allow it, like the pain actually just becomes that pleasure.

• 20:56Chris Williamson?

  That's what surrender is. That's fully what surrender is. So the first time that I went, I went with my buddy Zach, big YouTuber. And we got in and we were both fine. Then he got in his own head about being in the cold. And a couple of times he got out early. And then the next time that we went, we got in the cold thing and he's

• 21:15Chris Williamson?

  and I'm thinking, oh, you're not going to last 25 seconds. And he got out because he was in his own head. And then eventually after a couple of more sessions, he breaks that and then he's back in. Nothing's changed. His physiology hasn't changed at all, but his relationship to surrendering to the thing that he's supposed to do. And this is coming back to what we said before, right? About framing what your habits mean to you. You're getting in the cold tub. Look, is this an opportunity for you to do something which is going to make you feel amazing? Which is a fascinating experience and a deep dive into your own motivations inside of your brain for three minutes? That feels like 30. Or is it you battling the cold? Is it you versus this thing and I better breathe because if I don't breathe and I'm all tense? Nah, man.

• 21:58Chris Williamson?

  There's a cue that I got from one of the guys I was training with and he said, "What would this be like if it was easier?"

• 22:06Chris Williamson?

  And it's such a dope cue. Like, "What would this thing that I'm doing be like? If it was easier?" And it was, we were in a plank and that was when he said it to me. It's like, "Hey, man, like, just remember, like, "What would this be like if it was easier?" And you find yourself actually easing into the movement and feeling stronger because you're not tense everywhere, you're tense where you need to be. So, such a fucking good insight.

• 22:27Speaker 00

  Hmm, I really like that. I read it in, um, Greg McKeown's second book, Effortless.

• 22:31Chris Williamson?

  Effortless, yep.

• 22:32Speaker 00

  Yeah, I really love that concept.

• 22:39Speaker 00

  That, that comes up in so much, like every habit I can think of right now. I've found that if you think it's gonna be difficult, like there's the story you tell yourself, it's gonna be difficult.

• 22:49Chris Williamson?

  Making YouTube videos every day.

• 22:50Speaker 00

  Absolutely. It's easy now and because of that, it is easy. Because I think it's easy and it's fun, it's going to be easy and fun. Whereas if, for example, before this call, I thought, "Yeah, it's gonna be a fun conversation with Chris." And that's exactly what it feels like. But if I could have been tense, like, "Oh my God, this guy, "He's, he's, he's, he's got 200 followers, he's got like 200k followers, he's got a nice jawline and everything, I'm gonna get anxious."

• 23:15Speaker 00

  Then it would have felt very like tense and it would, you just, whatever frame of mind you put yourself in, it seems like the world just reacts in that way for you.

• 23:24Chris Williamson?

  Yeah. Dude, I wanna talk about Britney Spears. We need, we simply have to talk about this. So for the people that haven't seen, uh, one day ago, Britney Spears posted a two photo carousel on her Instagram with the caption, "Free woman energy has never felt better." And she is completely naked, apart from a long pair of white socks. And she has an emoji of a heart over her vagina and a flower over her nipple. Uh, and then there's another photo, if you swipe right, there is another photo where she's kind of like wide-legged. Uh, and the, with the same, the same emoji setup, so you can go and see this.

• 24:07Chris Williamson?

  And it's got nearly 3 million likes, but perhaps unsurprisingly, she turned comments off. Um, what's your, what's your thoughts on that, Hamza?

• 24:17Speaker 00

  So there's a YouTuber called Alexander Grace. I sent you the link to his YouTube video. He was saying a polygamy is gonna be the new normal. And he said it in like a fantastic way where he said, imagine if the real feminists of the 1900s saw what was happening today. Like, they would, they would think that you were lying. If we told them, well, yeah, by the way, like, women are fighting to be more sexualized than ever to like, to for free post pictures of themselves so that millions of, tens of millions of people can see it. The real feminists of the 1900s would, would think that you were joking. They would think that you were just like mocking them. That this is like, it's the sad state where now, I especially think of like the young women and the teenagers who, who are kind of seeing like their idols post this.

• 24:58Speaker 00

  And obviously we model after the people that we look up to. And it's kind of like, okay, so in this bizarre counterintuitive way, the modern sort of feminist narrative has encourages women more than ever to show off their bodies, to be promiscuous, which is kind of like the counterintuitive aim of the 1900s movements.

• 25:19Chris Williamson?

  Certainly not a linear progression between the two. Dude, the thing that I fucking think, we need to all apologize to a dad and say, look, dad, maybe you were right. Do you see that court case? Do you see where he was basically, oh, right. Okay. So the story seems like Britney Spears's dad had control over her entire life. Like, she, her estate, which included her back catalogue of records. I think it was like even to do with her finances, how she could spend money. It was, it was pretty severe, right? And it seemed a bit sinister as well, especially the way it was portrayed in the press. I don't know the ins and outs of the court case, but it didn't

• 25:56Chris Williamson?

  seem fantastic. But also, Britney's had some challenges mentally in the past, which I think was what had legitimated that in the first place. So anyway, there was this big back and forth, and it was hashtag free Britney was going on for ages, right? They wanted to give her her life back. And I don't know what the current situation of that is. I feel like she might have got more of her liberty back from her father. But you think, Britney, if this is the first thing that you do after getting, if you post a fully naked selfie twice on Instagram to prove your own sanity and the fact that you don't need your father, I'm like, I, I don't know if

• 26:38Chris Williamson?

  we were right. I don't know if we were right. Save Britney. Maybe save Britney, not free Britney.

• 26:45Speaker 00

  I think, to be honest, you and I are looking at this from quite a level-headed perspective, which isn't really the general consensus of the modern world around us. Whereas, okay, so we're looking at this in like a quite critical way, but I think the overwhelming majority of people will see this as a positive act for like feminism and for the act of expressing a sexuality. They'll see like this is a confident thing, like a brave thing to do.

• 27:09Chris Williamson?

  So maybe I have too much faith in humanity, but what people can let us know in the comments, right? If you think that what your opinion of this is, whether Britney is liberating herself and experimenting with the sovereignty of her own body and her own social media platform, or if this is somebody that could do with a bit of help and needs a phone call from a friend. Like, it doesn't seem to me, I would be interested to speak to the person that says like, go, Britney, after that. And it just seems like a bad PR move as well. You've just come out of a court case where your dad had control of everything because he was worried that you were going to lose your head. And then you, I don't know.

• 27:51Speaker 00

  For some people, there's no such thing as bad PR.

• 27:54Chris Williamson?

  I mean, Britney's, come on, Britney. It's been a while. How long was like her first single? Twenty, probably 25 years ago or some shit. But that's another interesting thing. We were talking about this offline. What happens when you very quickly gain status? And think about child stars. And this is, here's an interesting one for you, man. Britney Spears, Macaulay Culkin, and Brett Weinstein, Eric Weinstein, Jordan Peterson. People at kind of the opposite ends of life and maturity, but both of which can be just gifted global renown immediately. How the fuck are you supposed to deal with that status? Like,

• 28:36Chris Williamson?

  the human brain was not meant to be able to receive international acclaim and be known by millions and millions of people like, like that.

• 28:48Speaker 00

  Honestly, that's why you see so many of these like child celebrities with mental breakdowns. Like it used to be in quite a horrifying way, it used to be quite a kind of funny to the general population. I think either it was Britney Spears or Madonna or something like trimmed their head off, their hair off. And everyone was laughing about it and everything, but it's only now as more like, as we were saying, like normal people are starting to get fame and you know, you and I are branching into like the dark territory where we're like somewhat normal, somewhat not. And like, we can start to see, like, we haven't spoken about this, but you must get some kind of like hate comments every now and then. And it does like mess you up sometimes because we haven't even fathomed the power of the internet yet. And when you do read a comment, it's in my belief that it feels exactly like a person in front of you saying that.

• 29:30Speaker 00

  And when we do get like a critical comment from someone, it's this evolutionary thing inside of us that like kicks up, you know, puts us into fight of like thinking, okay, if you don't act right, you'll be kicked out of the tribe. Imagine that with 10 people, that's scary. Imagine that with 100, well, that's life threatening. Now imagine it with like literally a million people. No wonder these like, these guys are like literally taking naked pictures of themselves. So like, hopefully they're getting likes.

• 29:53Chris Williamson?

  I don't know what to do, yeah. Well, I would love to know the motivation behind that vid, that photo. So fucking interesting, but you are right, like people remember the insults and forget the blessings. That negativity bias is a hell of a drug and it's everywhere, but I don't know. Les would not be swayed by that. Les would be completely fine and he would just get stuck into what he's got to do next. All right. So give me, give me your thoughts on Red Pill YouTube.

• 30:23Speaker 00

  Yeah, um, it's mixed because a fair amount of people and somewhat including myself have found some value in them. And it's, there is absolutely value in having like older men give you wisdom and you know, they'll record videos and they'll say, for example, like, don't pedestalize women, they're just normal people and everything. The issue is that those type of videos don't really do well on YouTube. What does better is like, okay, we hate women now and treat them like garbage and here's how to like fuck them and like, you know, throw them out and everything. It's like how to do like degenerate type of stuff. And the issue now is. The internet's very, very nuanced. And so any kind of like red pill YouTuber that you're gonna come across is usually on this side of quite like, quite a degenerate, negative, hateful, hostile personality.

• 31:04Speaker 00

  And I I've certainly, like, I'm not even exempt from this. I've certainly branched into this multiple times. Um. The issue is that what does best for views and for likes and for growth on YouTube, which isn't admirable. You know, it's a it's a business at the end of the day, it's how people make a living. That that isn't what what is best for a young man's mind. So the red pill YouTubers who are very popular right now are almost entirely just a negative influence, in my opinion. They do teach some things. So, for example, a young man who's who stumbled onto the red pill YouTubers will, for example, learn something which will help him with the next girl he speaks to. But the issue with that is that by

• 31:43Speaker 00

  emulating the red pill YouTubers that he sees, the only girls that he can attract are similar to the girls that that red pill YouTuber are attracting. And then the red pill YouTuber, if he says all women are hoes, and then he's teaching you, oh, yeah, like, here's how to text girls. Well, he's telling you how to text hoes. So now the young man who's following that advice, any good, healthy woman is not going to be attracted to the way he'd like to text for in this example. Only the hoes are going to be attracted to it. So it becomes this self fulfilling prophecy. And like, people said this to me multiple times as I was going through my red pill journey myself, but I couldn't really understand it. You know, they're the blue pillars. We can't trust them and everything. Up until you really do like to take a huge step back and you realize like, you've just pigeonholed yourself to attract the women that you actually do hate.

• 32:27Chris Williamson?

  Dude, oh, I mean, think about, here's a good example. Think about the girls that Fresh and Fit invite round. Like, they purposely go out of their way to find the thottiest, most ratchet, degenerate girls that they can from the streets of Miami, and they invite them round, and they have some drinks. And then they use it as their opportunity to outwit the only other people in Miami that they can,

• 32:52Chris Williamson?

  who are these club nightclub girls, and then use that to like their intellect stands on the shoulders of girls that are five tequilas deep. And

• 33:05Chris Williamson?

  I'm fucking adamant, I'm fucking adamant that the fact that Fresh from Fresh and Fit is seen as an alpha male by some corners of the internet, I'm fucking certain that that is one of the four horsemen of the apocalypse. Like, that is the biggest, forget Covid, forget Trump, forget January 6th, the fact that that man is seen as an alpha is the worst comment on culture in the modern era that I could give.

• 33:31Speaker 00

  Which one is Fresh?

• 33:32Chris Williamson?

  He's the one that always sounds like he's got food in his mouth.

• 33:41Speaker 00

  Oh my god.

• 33:42Chris Williamson?

  Terminately sounds like he's got food in his mouth. He just got rumbled, he just got rumbled for being on Seeking Arrangement, so he has this chick on the channel and he invites her around and they start talking about how, I know that she's different, she's this sort of a girl, she meets him at this boat party, then everybody finds that she's got this TikTok account where she says the only type of guys that she likes and then just switches to a photo of a bucket load of cash. She's got a channel on Seeking Arrangements and it's like luxury lifestyle, fitness lifestyle, exclusive parties, and it turns out that that's how he met her. He's got this weird story about how he was at a party in Miami with this basketballer and then this basketballer said, "Oh, I fucked that girl as well on your Instagram. Hey, why

• 34:26Chris Williamson?

  don't you come back to my, where's the good parties tonight?" And then Fresh ends up taking him around and ends up having like sex with five girls in one night or something. You're like, dude, this is like Jay from The Inbetweeners. This legitimately sounds like, "So I had one over there and I was fucking her with my toe." And you think, oh my god, what the fuck is wrong with these people?

• 34:50Speaker 00

  Yeah, I'm not gonna lie, man. My first perception of them, like I saw like quite a lot of like clickbaity content and you know, there's just girls' ass in the thumbnail and everything. And it is definitely entertaining to watch because it is just like kind of degenerate shit that you know, like I don't want the door to open, I don't want my mum to walk in, I'd rather just switch porn on, it's easy to play.

• 35:11Speaker 00

  But um, there's just, the issue is, right, with with stuff like that, again, it's it's inherently just negative media. There's some people reply and you know, they say, oh, no, but it's really, really helped people. It's like, I don't think it would have. I think any realizations or insights that you really got from at least the the show that they do with the girls. It's just kind of like, you need to watch one episode or just read Rola Tomassi's books. It's just, it's like, oh, like, oh, like, women are ninety seventy percent. It's like, they just reply in the exact same thing. They've just got different girls. And it's just like, young men are consuming it just as an addiction to like their YouTube, like, you know, content consumption. I will go to say, though, that they they do shows with like other guys. So they've done shows with like Rola Tomassi, Jay Waller and Sterling

• 35:54Speaker 00

  Cooper. And those ones, it's so different. Like, I wish they did more because they're actually giving some like great wisdom and it was a totally different vibe where they're thinking of like the young man and they think, okay, guys, you should like focus on your credit score and everything. It's like, that's some like good ass advice right there. But the issue is like, that doesn't sell. Those ones will get a lot less views. Just ass on the thumbnail. That's what we want to see.

• 36:14Chris Williamson?

  We kick these hoes out. Like, that's what everybody wants. It's a it's a drama channel. Someone said, what was it? It's Jerry Springer for the TikTok generation. That's what that's what someone fucking commented about it. Here's the thing, and I'd be interested to know if you're the same. When I first started watching Fresh and Fit, Kevin Samuels, there's a part of me that I noticed that gets satisfied by watching that. Like, yeah, yeah, you fucking, you take those thoughts down. You take those bitches down. I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, where are you coming from? Like, what part of me is it that takes satisfaction from watching guys that are prepped

• 36:54Chris Williamson?

  shit on girls that have just come to come and sit in a podcast studio?

• 37:00Speaker 00

  It's the beta part. Like, the the part of you that still remembers getting rejected from girls and everything. It's like, this is like us indulging in that thing of, oh, like, we're gonna get the girls. Yeah, that's it. Because to imagine. To how many guys that is so attractive to because how many guys like this that's a part of us right now if we're doing okay with the girls. It's like a part of us still remembers and like, you know, is hateful for the fact that we got rejected by this one girl or by hundreds of girls. Imagine how many guys are like literally not attracting any women whatsoever. All they have, this one even apart, that is just them. It's just hateful, resentful. And then they go onto a show where a girl's getting made fun of and you know, the girl says something, but he's like, no, but here's the fact like here you didn't. You didn't research like we did like that that guy's gonna feel like some kind of fulfillment from that like, yes, like finally like they're getting put in their place.

• 37:46Speaker 00

  It is so attractive to the the huge proportion of guys who've been hurt by women.

• 37:53Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, yeah, it is. And it feels like vindication and it feels like catharsis as well. You have these these guys there that are. And I I think that's one of the reasons why you get a particular type of very loyal following for them.

• 38:05Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 38:06Chris Williamson?

  Which is they almost feel like they're the best of us. You know, they're the tip of the spear that's delivering the words to the girls that righteously should have been shit on long ago. You know, if I went back and told that girl that snubbed me in the nightclub four years ago that I still remember because I haven't done any self-work or meditation or been to see a fucking therapist, which I definitely need. That's them saying to all of the girls that have ever rejected you, what you always wanted to say.

• 38:34Speaker 00

  Hmm. So it feels nice. I can emphasize with the hundreds of thousands of young men who are actually watching this with a sense of enjoyment.

• 38:42Chris Williamson?

  Me too.

• 38:43Speaker 00

  Because they didn't get to ever say this stuff. But the thing is like be bitter, be better. And this is what they're choosing right now. There's no growth coming from this, but it is that sense of instant gratification, of pleasure, of just thinking like, oh, yeah, like at least a part of you feels like, you know, like fulfilled when you get a sense of like revenge against the person who hurt you.

• 39:03Chris Williamson?

  Yeah. Well, one of the things as well, I think you talked about this is that a lot of the the content I don't like that comes out of the Manosphere Red Pill YouTube space is the stuff that is predicated on shitting on women rather than raising up men.

• 39:17Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 39:17Chris Williamson?

  That's that. That puts me in the least positive some mindset. It puts me in the least grateful place. It makes me feel anxious. It makes me feel on edge. It makes me feel, it's like the difference between, it's like, that's my dopamine system as opposed to my serotonin system. I don't feel good. I don't feel nice. I don't feel connected. I feel agitated and anxious and I get pleasure, but I get pleasure with this sort of, it's like, it's like watching some like fucked up porn. And then afterwards feeling a little bit disgusted at yourself for what you've just watched. And yeah, it's not that, when I watch that stuff, it's not my highest, like my highest self isn't coming through. That's not Adonis or Les. That's, that's Jeffrey.

• 40:00Speaker 00

  That's Jeffrey. It really is, man. And it's, oh, it, it's the problem with the internet, the new ones. Like, I could use this explanation for everything we talk about, but the internet is turning into like such a negative place because that's what sells. That's what we're clicking on. Seeing a girl get kicked out of the studio is a lot more attractive than like seeing the same guys talk about like, oh, here's, here's five, three, one.

• 40:21Chris Williamson?

  How to increase your credit score.

• 40:22Speaker 00

  Yeah. Yeah. Cause like, you know, this is, this is more valuable. But the thing is, are we even looking for value anymore? Are we just looking for like cheap entertainments? And so this is the one that sells. And the issue with this is like, there is a certain value with this, but it's a negative influence on your personality. And at least for me, when, when I was fully consumed by this type of content, even before Fresh and Fit came out. It's my personality was fucking trash. Like, I know, like a lot of guys, I was like, I saw girls as like the enemy to conquer. And so it's the pick up artist stage that a lot of guys go through. And I never saw them as like a person to like this, this sounds blue pill. Did you see how deep I've went into it where like, I've got to even catch my, am I blue pill now? Like, is he, is he trying to convert me to blue pillism or something?

• 41:07Speaker 00

  I, I used to see girls as like.

• 41:11Speaker 00

  Not someone to like sort of build things like as on the same team. They were almost the enemy, even if we were doing good together. I was always like wary of them.

• 41:20Chris Williamson?

  Adversarial.

• 41:22Speaker 00

  Yeah, like I always thought like I had to conquer them in like a very negative way. Whereas recently, like I've taken a big step back from that therapy, as you said, meditation, journaling, reading books on dating, reading books on attachment styles. And I think the childhood stuff is like very, very important here. And I realized now, it's like, I love being around women, like I've made videos, clickbait videos. And again, it's that negative like um your thing sells. I made videos saying like I hate women and stuff, but it's to get the click and then I say, you know, different things on it. But it's like I I've actually started to love being around women and love having that feminine energy around me. And it's like the moment that you kind of like level things up with her. Feels it's such like a beautiful experience that I was always ignorant to because I was entirely focused on like the number clothes and the leg clothes.

• 42:04Speaker 00

  And when you're doing it as like a mathematician and you're thinking, okay, okay, I've got like a three percent success rate. So I've just got to go up to a hundred girls. It's like you're literally seeing them more as like a number than you are a human being who could be a compliment to your life.

• 42:16Chris Williamson?

  Well, dude, the red pill pickup, at least pickup, was started by aspergic and autistic guys that had no idea how to communicate to women. So the fact that there's a lot of sexual market value, peaks, graphs, fucking pictograms and scores out of ten. It doesn't surprise me because that's what a lot of the people that began this movement thinking. You know, there were programmers, coders, nerds that couldn't get women. And there's this zero sum mentality in the manosphere. I was listening to the mating grounds podcast. Have you heard of this? Okay, so Tucker Max, who is the, used to be the CEO of Scribe Media, created the frat time genre, wrote, I hope they serve beer in hell.

• 42:54Chris Williamson?

  Like basically fucked girls and threw up in bathrooms for a decade and then wrote about it and created New York Times bestsellers. Did a ton of psychotherapy and psychedelics and now has flipped the other way with Jeffrey Miller, who wrote The Mating Mind. He's one of the like premier evolutionary psychologists that focuses on mating dynamics. And they did a podcast and it stopped eight years ago. So it is one of the best podcasts that you can go back and listen to. It's called Mating Grounds. It's so fucking dope. A guy that's field tested and a guy that's got the academic chops to go with it. Talking about the fundamentals of male, female attraction, dating dynamics, but they say.

• 43:38Chris Williamson?

  They're talking about pick up, but you see, and this is the fascinating things. It's like eight years old, right? This episode that I listened to this morning and it's the same fucking dynamics. It's not Neil Strauss and mystery and pick up and real social dynamics anymore. It's now fresh and fit and Kevin Samuels and Rollo Tomassi and red pill and manosphere and alpha and beta and black pill and blue. Like that's the language, the language has changed, but the dynamics are exactly the same. And they're saying the entire pick apart, this community sees any woman's gain as a man's loss and any man's gain as a woman's loss. So they see a very adversarial relationship. They go into a club and they talk about pick up, like you pick something up. It's an action that you do.

• 44:22Chris Williamson?

  They talk about game and banging and it's all of these terms that if you break them down, it's all to do with a very aggressive zero sum mentality. But they're saying that if you bed a woman, it's almost her loss. That's the mentality that pick up went into it with. And I think that you still see that now. It's this adversarial relationship as opposed to a positive sum mentality. I'm like, fuck man, I don't want to be a part of that at all.

• 44:50Speaker 00

  That's interesting. Do you feel like they might have like a hidden sense of self-awareness that they see?

• 44:57Speaker 00

  If the woman's losing out, when if she's having sex with them, it's almost because they're aware of the fact that they aren't like good men.

• 45:05Chris Williamson?

  Yep, I think so. And I think as well, that when you, when you obsess so much over the dynamics, it takes you out of the moment. Now, like you can have, you can critique women that go on all night stand, one night stands all you want, but you still want a one night stand as a young guy. So you're asking women to adhere to standards that you're not encouraging them to adhere to in your real life? Hang on, there's something fucking going on there. You can't point a finger at women and say, "You're a slut if you have a one-night-stand", then go out and use all of the tricks that you found from neurolinguistic programming to pick up, to neg into all of that shit, to then get them into bed, and then feel disgusted at the woman for having done it. It's like, fuck me.

• 45:49Chris Williamson?

  There is no positivity in that situation. Every single step of the way is negative. And, you know, I think that there probably are some norms that we need to readdress around casual sex. I think that people probably do give away their bodies too quickly. And I think that recreating a sense of sacredness around putting yourself inside of someone else's body is probably a pretty good thing to do. I think that would be generally good for society. But you still need to see like how fucking negative and degenerate most of this stuff is.

• 46:22Speaker 00

  100% agreed. And honestly, that was me. That was like, I was the judgmental guy. Women shouldn't be having casual sex, but it was what I wanted. And so now I mock that sort of personality type using the Jeffrey character saying like, "Women are all sluts, but why won't they be my slut?" It's like, they don't actually hate women for being sluts. These aren't like philosophical men who understand the detriment of a society that engages in casual sex. These are just guys who are pissed off that they're not the ones women are having sex with. They don't like, it's easier for them to say, "Oh yeah, you know, because women shouldn't have sex because it's bad for them, it's bad for society." It's easier for them to say that than it is to say like, "Yeah, they shouldn't, you know, they hopefully could just have sex with me, but they don't want to, so they shouldn't be having casual sex." But you're absolutely right.

• 47:05Speaker 00

  And I think that's something literally is one of the biggest things in my mind right now. It's like the sacredness of sex and how to like reduce casual sex. So I'll be completely honest, like, I'm actually struggling with that. If there's a woman I'm attracted to and she seems to be back into me, there's been so many times where, you know, recently I've been thinking, "Okay, no more casual sex. I'm into like either relationships and love and everything, but I'm in bed just as fast as like that." It's like, and I can't tell if it's like an addiction or something, but I find it so hard to restrain myself from engaging in that.

• 47:37Chris Williamson?

  Well, remember that you're talking, you've got two systems that are running here, man. Like the one that says, "I want to put my penis inside of that girl", is a lot more subconscious and a lot more ancient than this one that says, "Remember Adonis, I need to focus in the morning. I need to make sure that I go and do my meditation." You know, that- That push and pull, if it wasn't the case that we were subject to our subconscious, we would never do anything that we didn't want to do. But all the time, we do stuff that we don't want to do. We press the snooze button, even though we committed to ourselves that we weren't going to press the snooze button. We don't meditate, we forget to ring our mum, we do whatever it might be. All of these things are because there is something else going on. And sex is one of, you know, it's on the bottom of Maslow's hierarchy of needs. It is one of the fundamental elements.

• 48:22Chris Williamson?

  It's like saying, I told myself I was going to fast for a week, but I broke after two days. Like, that must be because I'm a bad person, because I can't do the fast thing. It's like, no, your biology is very, very geared towards you not starving. In the same way as your biology is geared towards you, if you have the opportunity to have attachment-free sex, to do that. But again, over time, you know, this is, how long have you been in this sort of mode? Six months, maybe? One year?

• 48:51Speaker 00

  Yeah, about six months.

• 48:52Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, and how long had you spent idolizing women? Probably 10 years?

• 48:56Speaker 00

  Yeah, well said.

• 48:58Chris Williamson?

  You know, say you're, give yourself your advice from earlier on.

• 49:01Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's actually, I'm a, I very much appreciate you just saying that, actually. You just hit me with my own advice, because it is hard, man. It's, I know the dangers of casual sex, and I openly speak against them on my channel, because for a while, I branched away from it in the sense, like, women shouldn't have, I was in one of those gay, women shouldn't have casual sex. But you know, for men, well, men are different, and high value men can do it, but, yeah, shut up, bro. But now I realise, like, after speaking to another YouTuber, Elliot Holtz, and speaking about fatherlessness, it's caused by both men and women engaging in casual sex. It's the issue is like, there is just a complete detriment to society when either one of us engages in that activity, because it just leaves a generation of fatherless boys. And then those fatherless boys are more likely to continue the same thing.

• 49:45Speaker 00

  And it's, it's the hard times, great strong men, paradigm that's happening.

• 49:50Chris Williamson?

  Has your camera just gone? That's all right?

• 49:52Speaker 00

  Did you hear that?

• 49:52Chris Williamson?

  Yeah. So again, this Jeffrey Miller thing I was listening to earlier on, I would add one book in, I'm only halfway through, it's called Mate, and it's by Jeffrey Miller and Tucker Maxx, and it's an evolutionary psychologist and a guy that's partied for a decade, become the man women want. And it's just, it's like, it's a bit of a cringe title, but I guess it gets across what it is. I think it'd be a really interesting read for girls as well to go through. I think models by Mark Manson as well is really interesting for girls to see their own need, that neediness dynamic. Basically, Mark says that one of the fundamental dynamics that goes on between men and women is a level of neediness, and that neediness from a man is fundamentally unattractive. And basically, that's what you need to avoid

• 50:36Chris Williamson?

  at all costs. One of the best ways to not be needy is to have a life that doesn't need anybody else in to make it fulfilled. You are enough, and then somebody joins and you make a life that is better together for both of you, as opposed to you are not enough, you're insufficient, and a girl comes in and fills the void, because then you're constantly going to be pining after that girl. And also, it's a weak position to negotiate from. But so in this, this is fucking eight years ago, man, right? Jeffrey Miller, who wrote The Mateing Mind, which is like, one of the foundations for pretty much everything else that grew out of it. Jeff Miller says that only 10% of the pick-up and manosphere world understands his work. He reckons that more than 50% of his sales were to the manosphere, and even though they idolized Jeffrey, almost none of them understand his work. The entire point

• 51:19Chris Williamson?

  was to understand what women want, but no one focuses on it.

• 51:25Speaker 00

  So what is the summary that you've got from that work so far?

• 51:30Chris Williamson?

  It's a list of five different things. And in there is tell the truth. Like, one of the, one of the things is to constantly tell the truth, to build up self-esteem in yourself. Another one is to not work with bias, but to work with rationality. I wonder, I'd be interested to find out where the rational male came from. I wonder whether that was an influence on Rollo and what he did. But it's not got this sort of very neggy, very distasteful, degenerate sort of zero-sum mentality at all. You sent me this video of the future is polyamorous. What do you reckon about the future of relationships? Can you see that happening?

• 52:08Speaker 00

  Yeah, 100%. I watched that video, and honestly, it really opened up my eyes. After I watched your podcast with Vincent.

• 52:17Speaker 00

  Um. So you guys are discussing the sexual marketplace and how it's gonna just get more and more cutthroat. So I made like a one hour video in response where I was just kind of like, just, you know, girding ideas and just seeing what would happen. And we're entering some dark times for young men. The fact that I think near the end of your podcast, you were really like started taking the back thinking of like the seriousness of this problem. Like, I don't think we, you know, we're just kind of chatting, how do you get girls and everything, but this is like, this is maybe one of the biggest problems. Yeah, this quite literally is like a ten out of ten, like disaster just waiting to, like, it's happening right now and everyone's not really taking it serious. Because it's just, oh, you know, like, guys just want to get laid, but it's a huge, huge problem. And the idea is, okay, what is going to happen in the future of dating?

• 53:00Speaker 00

  Well, relationships amongst young people and even sex is like, it's just going out of place. No one's really getting into like a monogamous committed long term relationship. The people who are getting into monogamous relationships are often finding that their relationships end six or twelve months later. And then like infidelity and everything. And the idea is that women just keep, you know, with hypergamous nature, they just keep wanting better and better and better, better, better, better men. And because the top men that all the women want are ruthlessly competitive. It's like this, this section of men, let's say the top ten percent is becoming ever harder to get into. Let's say fifty years ago, it was like, he didn't stink and he had a car and all the girls were after him.

• 53:41Speaker 00

  And now it's like, you need everything, you need like, you need six pack, you've been training for six years in the gym, you need like, you're the mental, like confidence and the degree, postgraduate, graduate degree. You need everything these days as a man to like be in this top ten percent. And so it's, it's just gonna get more and more ruthless. Women want the men in here. The thing is, the men in here don't just want one woman. If you're the guy who's essentially beaten ninety something percent of other guys in terms of characteristics, chances are, like a lot of guys do say, like, you know, oh, no, it's just like, I just want one woman. If you had the ability to, to attract more than one woman. I think the overwhelming majority of guys would actually accept that proposal and be with two women instead in like, let's say, in a dating market.

• 54:22Speaker 00

  And I think we're gonna see this more and more. And I think Alexander Grace, the YouTuber who made that video of polygamy be normal. He had this fantastic point where he said that he thinks feminists are actually gonna push this narrative, not men. Because it's gonna be like this sort of like new age fight for like more rights in the sense where like women would rather be. It's Rollo Tomassi's quote, women would rather share an alpha than be saddled with a faithful beta.

• 54:48Chris Williamson?

  If that's the case, if the next frontier for feminism is opening up polyamorous relationships, or it's polygynous relationships technically.

• 55:00Chris Williamson?

  If that's the next frontier for them, I I don't think that the future looks very good for civilization. Because that is, if that's a cause that women start to campaign for, that's the sort of thing that men are going to riot and kill about. And there's such a cool study. Had you ever seen that graph before? The one where he's, what was that guy's name? The YouTuber?

• 55:24Speaker 00

  Alexander Grace.

• 55:25Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, where Alexander had found a graph that showed the relative number of men versus the relative number of women that were giving birth to children. Presumably this must be genetic data somehow. And you can see that from about fifty thousand years ago until ten thousand years ago. It's relatively equal, like women are a little bit higher because on average women are more successful at having children than men are. Women are a little bit higher, men are a little bit lower, but kind of tracking similarly. And then ten thousand years ago, the men just drop off a cliff, go to basically zero. It looks like who, which men are having children here. There's no, there's no one. And his argument was that during the agricultural revolution, what you had was the ability for men to accrue status and resources,

• 56:10Chris Williamson?

  which afforded them the ability to have huge harams of women that they could keep safe. But then what they realized was that it was an incredibly unstable society for men to be in. And I had an evolutionary biologist on the show, Joe Henrick, the other day. And he said that a lot of South Pacific islands and uncontacted tribes and stuff that have been studied, some of them have a what's called a, it's like a gentryiatric, I think, or a gerrific or something, which is the old people are the ones that are in charge. And men have to go through a number of rituals before they can marry. And often it keeps them until their 30s before they can do, got to do this, got to do this, got

• 56:54Chris Williamson?

  to do this, got to do this. But what that leaves you with is a ton of available women that are captured by a bunch of old men, and then a shit ton of young men that are coming up that think, I've got to do my next ritual in three years' time. I can't get a woman at the moment because they've all been captured by these guys and these stupid rituals and this ideology that we've got. Fuck it, let's revolt. And it's just an inherently unstable society. So that's the thing. Nobody wants that. Nobody wants that society when they actually look at it. Nobody wants the unstable, sexless underclass of men roaming the streets shit. Like, that's bad for absolutely everybody. And I don't know, I don't know

• 57:34Chris Williamson?

  if polygyny is as realistic as Alexander makes out, because modern notions of romanticism have skewed what women expect a lot. And I think that it's not sufficient for women in a relationship to simply get their fair share of resources. They actually want to feel emotional connection and time with their partner. And if you end up having, you know, one man to three women, or one man to four women, like, is one quarter of that man's attention going to be enough for you? I'm not sure.

• 58:15Speaker 00

  There's so many things to break down there, but the last point that you made in terms of the media influencing, because that's huge. The media very, very heavily influences our dating and our sexual lives. And it was a realisation that I had, let's say 50 years ago, Disney was a huge thing that pushed forward, like the blue pill ideology and like the one-ite belief, you know, like they got happily married, like happily ever after. What's very interesting is like, that media is very, very different. Like, I don't consume much media. I can almost like envision sort of like new age sitcoms and, you know, like reality TV shows where it's like the modern stuff of the dating, you're seeing it in the show. You're gonna see this one girl who like, oh, she just had a drunken hookup with this guy who didn't text her back and like, she wants this guy, but this guy's

• 58:58Speaker 00

  got this other guy and maybe she'll go on a date and, you know, they had a threesome together or something. You're beginning to see it because media influences us, but we also influence like the media and of course, some random show that shows these dynamics is gonna be quite relatable amongst a certain audience. So we are gonna see like, I don't watch it personally, but like, I know for a fact, there's gonna be some TV shows that are like doing really well right now, which will have quite a prominent character being a part of this like modern new age dating.

• 59:24Chris Williamson?

  Well dude, think about what Love Island does. Love Island turns, I'm fucking a part of this problem, right? I understand that it's the pot calling the cattle black. They turn dating into a game. Like, it is a game show first and foremost. After everything, after you've been through six weeks, there's been vote-offs, there's been surprise additions, there's been Casa Amor, people have come in, you've been worried about losing this partner, it's been this really intense experience, you've been, you've got a wicked tan, and at the very end, you've won, here's some celebrations, oh wait, now you get to play Would I Lie To You or Deal or No Deal, or Golden Balls. You get to do Split or Steal.

• 1:00:07Chris Williamson?

  And I've always been really interested about why that was there. And I asked the guys on my season, like, what was going on with that?

• 1:00:17Chris Williamson?

  But what it tells us, like, it's the final thing that you see on the entire season. You watch the whole season, it's the fucking parentheses, or it's the period at the end, right? The full stop is, will you split or steal this 50,000 quid? Which is a pointless exercise now, because the money that you make off the back of it, if you've made it to the end and you've won, is so much more. And if you were to steal, the amount of money that you would make from your boo hoo sponsorship would go through the floor, because you wouldn't have as much brand equity anymore, because you'd be the dick that stole 25 grand. It just reminds everyone that it's a game. That's what it does. It's a show that is called Love Island, that is ostensibly supposed to be about love, and at the end of it, it reminds everyone that actually it wasn't so much about the

• 1:01:02Chris Williamson?

  relationship, there was this game show element to it as well.

• 1:01:07Chris Williamson?

  That doesn't seem like a tremendously effective romantic way to teach young people about caring about their relationship. Everyone's swapping beds, twice a week, new guys come in, "Oh, I like it, I know I'm with him, but I like him, I know I'm with her, but I'm gonna like..." What does Rollo call it? Branch swinging? Yeah, "I'm gonna branch swing across this, or I'll dip my toe in and see whatever's going on." Fuck, man.

• 1:01:36Speaker 00

  That's so interesting. A show called Love Island is heartless.

• 1:01:44Speaker 00

  That's like the modern dating that we're literally surrounding ourselves. And of course, this is like to an extreme level, and it's for the audience, the viewership and everything, but honestly, they're not that far off normal dating lives anyway. A lot of it is recreating what people in, like, let's say, the young, party, casual sex scene are experiencing. Because otherwise, honestly, like, if you're someone who's been like a bit of a fuckboy, go to clubs and everything, like, you know that dynamic. That's why it's so relatable and so fun to watch, because the questions that you're asking people is like the questions that I'm asking some girl that I just met yesterday. And then it's like, "Oh, there's another guy, is he gonna mug me off of the girl and everything?" Like, it's so realistic, but just, when you really think about the fact that it's literally just like...

• 1:02:24Speaker 00

  All over the place, like this is modern dating is just kind of like the fast food version of the healthy version that we may have gotten to experience like a hundred years ago.

• 1:02:34Chris Williamson?

  Fuck, I don't know, but I also don't understand, like, I agree, I think the one itis thing disempowers people from bad relationships. You know, this is the part of Rollo's work that I think he really nailed, which is this myth of the one, there is not one person out there for you, there are a number of people that are variably appropriate, and the goal is to find somebody that is as close to appropriate as possible. Now, that's not to say that you can't feel incredibly special and like you have a team and a community and this is what you're going to do, and especially once you have kids, okay, like, this is, we're together through thick and thin here, you know, I don't want my kids to grow up in a single parent household, and I'm going to do everything I can to make sure that that doesn't happen.

• 1:03:13Chris Williamson?

  I don't know how you blend Love Island transient transactional relationships with the myth of oneitis, with progression for women and men to not have rights removed from them and norms removed from them that restrict their premarital sex, with the challenges in women raising up through the dominance hierarchy and there being fewer men hypergymously that are attracted to them. I'm like, all of this blended together, just to me, do you know what it is, man? It feels like fucking Don't Look Up, which is the new Netflix show about an asteroid that's coming toward Earth, and these couple of researchers are screaming at the President

• 1:03:57Chris Williamson?

  of the United States and saying, this is going to come, and this is going to kill us, we need to do something about it right now, and nobody listens. And they say, well, you say it's 99.9, let's call it 70, we'll get a press release out. They're like, no, no, no, no, don't call it fucking 70, this is a big deal, this is a planet killer, and then it ends up being, everybody gets destroyed.

• 1:04:22Speaker 00

  Yeah, I've tried to wrap my mind around the potential solution to all this and I can't think of any good answers whatsoever. And the only one that comes to mind is things keep going the way that they are. And instead of the bottom eighty percent of sexless intimacy, love deprived men revolting, they all just get consumed by the metaverse and that's their new reality and they find a sense of like love. And I'll be deadly serious, I think that's actually the most realistic scenarios a few years from now. We have like the ultra realistic sort of like virtual reality. And guys are just trading an hour of cuddling for like zero point one Ethereum and that's, that'll do them.

• 1:04:59Chris Williamson?

  Well, I mean, you'll see this in your YouTube comments. I've definitely seen it in some of the red pill videos that I've done. Where guys will say, the more Mig Tawee Black Pill guys will say, um, don't need to bother with women, just wait for the sex robots and buy cars in the, in the meantime. And I'm thinking, well, I mean,

• 1:05:17Chris Williamson?

  it's a solution. It's not, I wouldn't say it's an optimal solution. It's not the one that I would choose, but I understand the compulsion of a guy who feels like he can't get physical intimacy or find a woman or a wife that cares about him. I understand why that would be attractive and maybe you're right, maybe the best, the second best option, if revolt is the worst option, maybe the second best option is sedation. If you sedate the populace with enough metaverse and virtual reality and convenience to the point where people genuinely, men genuinely don't care about mating anymore. But even that man, like I can't imagine

• 1:06:03Chris Williamson?

  me being that guy. I don't, that's not the sort of life that I want. And again, I understand that not everybody has the same life experiences, but fuck that. Like, did you, did you really want to grow up for this to be the pinnacle of your life?

• 1:06:20Speaker 00

  To be honest, I feel like the sedation is already, has been happening for many, many years. Video games, porn, social media. I think the majority of guys are so consumed in, in this technology that they wouldn't ever revolt. And

• 1:06:37Speaker 00

  li- life is like good enough for the majority of guys. And the things that they miss from real life, like a sense of brotherhood, status and recognition, they're getting in games like Call of Duty, the things that they miss in the day, in a sexual market, because they're not part of the, you know, the 20% of guys who are like allowed to get that stuff, they get from like, I don't know, TV shows and porn and just fantasies and sending dick pics on Instagram. So although it doesn't essentially fulfill the exact need, the thing is the businesses that sedate a person and make them feel like somewhat like they've ticked off those bottom pillars of Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Those industries are like billions, like hundreds of billions, because that's, that's where billions of men are going to.

• 1:07:20Speaker 00

  And to be honest, you were saying like you couldn't imagine a life like this. That made me realize, okay, usually if I do see those men, uh, those comments of like the men saying, men go in their own way and black pill, you know, usually I'm instantly like, okay, loser, like, I don't know why you're doing that. Just, you know, focus on self-improvement and everything. But lately, I, because of your podcast, I've been thinking more about this and I've been thinking, are men like you and I living our life through the lens of someone who isn't genetic, this sounds horrible, like genetically sort of subpar? And that's why we're saying things like, oh, you know, I wouldn't want to live that life. But it's like, we're tall, attractive guys. We've got like the good features and everything. We couldn't imagine a life like that. But what about for the guy? We couldn't imagine life like that, even if, you know, things were worse off, because it would be, okay, you know, let's, let's still get, get the six pack, get the money and everything.

• 1:08:05Speaker 00

  But what about the guy who's like literally five foot seven, unattractive face?

• 1:08:10Chris Williamson?

  You know what's weird? Did you watch, oh, again, you don't use a massive amount of social media, but Molly May, who won Love Island a couple of years ago, she trended on Twitter this week because she made some pretty tone deaf comments about how people that are poor just need to work harder and they can do whatever they want. And someone mentioned that she works for a pretty little thing and gets 600,000 pounds a year, but pretty little thing pay their workers three pounds 50. So it's very difficult. It doesn't matter how hard I work. I'm stuck in a poverty trap. And it kind of feels

• 1:08:44Chris Williamson?

  Maybe a little bit like that, that there is a degree of blindness to people for whom there is a ceiling on it, on their capacity for growth, personal agency, sovereignty. So the black pill in incel forums, on average, it's 30% of people to 50% of people have some sort of autism spectrum disorder. So they're aspergeric, autistic, or they might be disabled physically. And you think,

• 1:09:12Chris Williamson?

  when you learn that stat, you're like, me telling you that you need to go read Atomic Habits by James Clear just doesn't cut the mustard. But I mean, frankly, I don't think that me or you are speaking to them. Like, that's not my audience. Bro, like, I feel for you. You know, there is a channel of interesting content for you here, but genuinely, I feel like your situation requires more specialist assistance than I can give it.

• 1:09:39Chris Williamson?

  This is for the, this is written for the me and you 10 years ago, right? That's what the content is created there for. And to pick out any, anything that you say is a generalization and to pick out that one example that doesn't fit the generalization, you're like, oh, okay, cool. But I can't make a one size fits fucking everybody solution here. We're just trying to give across the best tactics that we found that worked for us that will hopefully apply to the widest group of guys and girls.

• 1:10:12Chris Williamson?

  30 to 50%, man.

• 1:10:16Speaker 00

  It's interesting what you said, like, our, our content's not really calling out to them. For me, the reason why I do try to like, help these guys and I make videos for the guys who are like, total losers and everything is because I've been there and honestly, like, I, I could have been an incel at this point. And it's so interesting. Okay, everyone would be completely, no, you're six foot one, you've got the jawline, you know, genetics, like face and everything. But I could have been. And like, honestly, I wasn't that far off at that point to be blackpilled and everything. If I stumbled down onto like the Blackpill subreddit, if there was one at the time, you know, if I started engaging in that type of content. I probably would have been one of these guys saying, I know it's over for me because I'm brown skin and everything. And in fact, that was like one of the beliefs that I genuinely thought.

• 1:10:57Speaker 00

  I was like ugly because I was brown skin and no girls wanted me. And then it just something just hit me. I think I started weightlifting at first and you know, you envision the body. I just thought, wait, hang on, if I've got like a ten out of ten body, I'm still brown, bro. Like, I'm still gonna be attractive. Like, there's, there's definitely brown guys who are like getting girls right now. So. It isn't the fact that I'm brown that I'm not, you know, getting the success that I want. But.

• 1:11:19Speaker 00

  I don't think we're relatable like at all to a large chunk of men. And I think a, a big part of that was obviously their characteristics that they say, you know, like. Negative candle till they've got some good terms for this.

• 1:11:32Chris Williamson?

  What's that?

• 1:11:32Speaker 00

  Hunter eyes and prey eyes. So you've got, so hunter eyes is like where your eyes are like um almond shaped. And they're quite close to your, this is autistic, like quite close to your eyebrows. And it makes you look like a hunter in the sense of like, you know, a wolf has like those eyes.

• 1:11:47Chris Williamson?

  Okay.

• 1:11:47Speaker 00

  And then prey eyes are like circular, like I've got prey eyes. Which are like, that's what they always say. They make videos about me. They say, like, Hamza's got prey eyes and stuff. It's like, they say like, he's got a good jawline. He's six foot one. He's attractive and everything, but his eye region lets him down. They've been.

• 1:12:00Chris Williamson?

  Eye region?

• 1:12:01Speaker 00

  It's going to, it hurts, man. Like, I'm wearing glasses and stuff now. But it's like prey eyes are more like circular eyes, like, you know, like rabbit eyes. So you can see more of a scope around you. But you know what's very interesting? There is an upcoming Blackpill YouTuber called Wheat Waffles. And he, he was like, um, like treading the path. For the Blackpill content just a few months ago. I got him onto a podcast and we argue a lot and everything. We're disagreeing with each other. And it was like a very, very bad sort of episode and everything. But then we speak more and more, we literally become friends. And then for the second episode, a lot of people realize like, he's kind of changed his mindset on a fair amount of things. And just out of nowhere. Obviously, he was arguing things like, no, Hamza, what you're teaching is like a scam. Um, getting fit, getting the muscular body doesn't work and everything. That was on the first episode.

• 1:12:44Speaker 00

  On the second one, he, he just randomly says, yeah, like, the most important thing you can do is build the muscular body. I was like, wait, that's like, that's red pill as fuck. That's and even like, he's changed his mind and he, he, this is, these guys are like, you know, like you said, um, very math, like they're into math and data and all this. So he's done like a face analysis of a thousand people, quantified, they got the graphs and everything like this autistic level stuff. The highest thing, like the best thing that a man can do to improve how attractive he is to a woman, and he quantified so many different things is lose fat, but build muscle. Everything else was way less than that surgery and height and all this stuff. Lose fat, build muscle. He said that pretty much every guy should at least try to do this, at least try to build that body first and then find out if you like should be blackpilled.

• 1:13:27Speaker 00

  And even though that advice is a bit like, uh, like I kind of agree. That's what I've been saying to a lot of guys. Before you take the black pill, before you want to be an incel, try to build a 10 out of 10.

• 1:13:35Chris Williamson?

  Do five three, do five three one for 18 months.

• 1:13:37Speaker 00

  Buy Bitcoin.

• 1:13:38Chris Williamson?

  Buy Bitcoin, do five three one, buy Bitcoin, do five three one.

• 1:13:41Speaker 00

  At least build like the six out of 10, 10 out of 10 body, and then just see how you feel after that. If after that you say, okay, still no attraction from women whatsoever, bro, I'd cry with you. But I can't imagine there's a guy who's got the full aesthetic body and like the low body fat percentage that comes with it, who still says that he completely struggles with women and that it hasn't gotten better at all. And if, even if there's a small majority of men who say it hasn't got better at all, I guarantee those guys would still not stop lifting because it's just become like a part of their identity and they really like it's a positive thing.

• 1:14:09Chris Williamson?

  Yeah. So you talk about, we've mentioned on the channel before about how on Tinder, there is the bottom 80% of men competing for the bottom 20% of women, top 80% of women competing for the top 20% of men. The inference from that is if you're not physically in the top, if you're not an eight out of 10 relative or above as a guy, then you are by definition in the bottom part. Now, one of the things that I think guys, especially young guys that are listening, need to know is that on average, your competition for guys that are developing themselves is so piss poor.

• 1:14:44Chris Williamson?

  That you don't actually need to be in the 80th percentile of anything. You only need to be slightly better than the massive amount of guys that are not doing anything at all. This is like. About guys that are going to the gym, if you go to the gym three times a week, you're in probably the top 1% or 5% of fit people on the planet. Like, and especially in a western country like America or the UK. But I think on average, everybody's overweight in both countries.

• 1:15:18Speaker 00

  70%.

• 1:15:19Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, on average, you're obese. The bar is set so fucking low for you to be a guy that goes to the gym, that listens to some charisma on command stuff that takes a little bit from a podcast. You don't need to spend a ton of money. You don't need to, you don't even need to work that fucking hard. Like, you do not need to work that hard. The bar is set so low for charisma, for confidence, for looks, for everything. Because it's not about becoming an eight out of 10 compared to the people on Instagram. It's like that story about if you're in a wood and you worried about being chased down by a bear. You don't need to be faster than the bear. You just need to be faster than the fucking guy next to you.

• 1:15:58Speaker 00

  Honestly, I loved this thinking. Like, I made, one of my favorite random videos that I made was just titled "Your Competition", and I was trying to tell the boys, you've got to stop thinking that you need to be like up here. Like, a lot of guys will be on the defeatist mindset. They'll be, oh, but like, you know, I'm not gonna go make 200K a year and like six, seven and like all this. Like, you don't need to be that good. Of course, like, it helps, that would be nice. The thing is, your competition right now for the average guy who's watching this, who jacks off five times a week and he plays video games for like one hour a day, but it's more like four. The thing is, if you do a push-up today, you have literally beaten 500 million men. How can that not blow your mind? And if you go and do like a good structured program, you're beating pretty much every single guy apart from like

• 1:16:42Speaker 00

  the five guys at your gym who are actually on a program themselves. You do that for three years, four years whilst also like working on your career or business. And you've got some like fantastic traits. And not only that, that you put like, you're just happy. Like, okay, like even forget about women, like you've built a body that you're proud of. You feel like, you know, you like do paint some respect disease and you feel shredded and everything. And now you've built some money so you can actually go and enjoy some experiences. You forget about women for any sense at all. Your life just got infinitely better just by slightly thinking of your competition or the men around you. And I wish more guys could just realise that you're not in, like you are absolutely somewhat, we're all in competition together. But the thing is, you, the way I explain it is like, we're all in competition, but we're in separate races. And if you're just starting off, you're in the race of Jeffreys. And those guys, they're not even, they're running in the wrong direction.

• 1:17:25Speaker 00

  They're like, just doing some weird shit like they're running the wrong race. All you've got to do is beat Jeffrey today and then okay, beat the other guys who beat Jeffrey yesterday. It's just progressive overload in all sense of your life.

• 1:17:36Chris Williamson?

  Dope man. We made it. Hamza, ladies and gentlemen, people want to check out your channel, where should they go?

• 1:17:41Speaker 00

  The search Hamza on YouTube will be the first. That's a flex. That'll be, it'll be the first one that pops up.

• 1:17:45Chris Williamson?

  Boss, have you got your plaque? Have you got your silver plaque yet?

• 1:17:48Speaker 00

  I've put in the details and everything. It'll take a while on the delivery, but we're on like 220k now.

• 1:17:54Chris Williamson?

  Flying man. Look dude, I've really enjoyed speaking to you. I think your content's dope. Keep at it.

• 1:17:58Speaker 00

  Thank you, Chris. Thank you for having me, man.