The State of Fantasy Football, 25 Best NBA Players, and Million-Dollar Picks With Danny Heifetz and Joe House

The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Danny Heifetz and Joe House for a fantasy football check-in after nine weeks, then discuss the surging Ravens offense, the rise of the running back, and the biggest fantasy disappointments (2:13). Afterward, they get into some stealth waiver wire and trade candidates and fantasy booking Bill Belichick's next coaching gig (26:23). House and Bill later run through their favorite games from the weekend's slate before making their Million-Dollar Picks for NFL Week 10 (53:16), Finally, they talk some NBA, including the Warriors' win over the Celtics, NBA awards odds, a check-in on their win total picks, and Bill's updated top 25 NBA players list (1:27:51). Host: Bill Simmons Guests: Joe House and Danny Heifetz Producer: Kyle Crichton The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Bill Simmons?

  Coming up, a lot of football and a little basketball as well. It's all next.

• 0:06Speaker 01

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• 1:06Bill Simmons?

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• 1:51Bill Simmons?

  Product availability varies by region. Exclusions may apply. See app for details. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. Put up a new rewatchables on Monday. We did Body Double and you can watch it on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel. You can watch all the videos and clips from this podcast on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. And if you like our bets that we do on Million Dollar Picks here, which has been doing pretty well lately, on the Ringer Sunday Pregame Show on YouTube TV, all of Sal's podcast stuff, The Ringer Gambling Show, we are now putting all of that stuff, our favorite ones, on our own Ringer section, which is within FanDuel's NFL section. We have a page or a little, little tab that you click called The Ringer Specials. And we launched it last week. It went great. And that's where Million Dollar Picks, a whole bunch of other stuff

• 2:36Bill Simmons?

  are going. So if you need ideas for parlays, features, teasers, whatever, go check that out because we're doing it every weekend from now on. Coming up on this podcast, Danny Hyphens joined Joe House and I, talked about the state of fantasy football through nine weeks. Who are the winners? Who are the losers? What did we learn? Did we learn any big picture lessons for future seasons? And then who should you pick up? Who should you try to trade for? We just deep dove fantasy because why not? And then we talked about the Giants. We talked about who Bill Belichick is going to coach next. House stuck around. We did Million Dollar Picks. And then last but not least, we did some basketball because I think we're going to start doing that after Million Dollar Picks. Just a little, little, little nightcap NBA section. There were a lot of good games last night, a lot to talk about.

• 3:21Bill Simmons?

  I also wanted to run my Ringer 100, my top 25 past House because we had to turn those ballots in soon. I'm not going to talk about the election today. I'm probably going to do it at some point over the next couple of weeks. I want to do it with the right guests, but still sorting my thoughts from, you know.

• 3:42Bill Simmons?

  Let's bring it, Pro Jim.

• 4:03Bill Simmons?

  All right, we are taping this on Thursday afternoon. Joe House is here as he always is for Million Dollar Picks and Danny Hyphens is here from The Ringer Fantasy Football Show and The Ringer.com, a great website. Also, and a big, big New York fan, interesting month for New York. Have you recovered?

• 4:21Speaker 02

  Uh, yeah, it's great. I mean, it started well when the WNBA title was handed by the referees to the Liberty. So that was really cool. And frankly, ever since then, there's been a lot of karmic retribution on every front. So it's been strange after that. But it was, at least we got a hand, a title handed. That was kind of cool.

• 4:36Bill Simmons?

  House, where's our karmic retribution for Lynx 5-1? Still waiting?

• 4:42Speaker 03

  Um, I think, uh, Joe Tsai has it.

• 4:45Bill Simmons?

  Oh, Joe Tsai has it.

• 4:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, Joe Tsai has it.

• 4:48Bill Simmons?

  We're gonna talk fantasy because we are at the sweet spot of the fantasy season. We have nine weeks in the book. We have some winners and some losers and some disappointments and some surprises. And then more importantly, um, we have the stretch run coming. Um, House and I are in a keeper league together. House, how's your team doing?

• 5:07Speaker 03

  Terrible. I have one among the worst receivers in the league and you can't win if you have bad receivers.

• 5:13Bill Simmons?

  Oh, well, I can't wait to talk about them. My team's doing great in that league and terrible in the other league. But, uh, Hyphens, Lamar, not only the MVP for fantasy, but every year, there's a theory, just pick an offense and grab all the best guys from it. When you're doing all your shows with Danny and Craig, did Baltimore ever come up as the team that would be the team to do that with? Because they have the number one QB, the number one running back, and then Flowers is in the top 10 receivers. But did anyone see that coming?

• 5:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, it did. So I mean, I, you know, I live in DC, you know, just like House, and I went to Baltimore camp and I just remember coming back from OTAs the first time just seeing, you know, they're not wearing pads or anything, but just the first time I saw Lamar Jackson stick the ball at Derrick Henry's gut for like a read option even on air, I was just like, this is, this looks iconic. It feels iconic. It's like a Thunder Lightning backfield at the same time. And I wish we had gone in on it even more because if, yeah, if you would just stack Lamar, Derrick, Henry, and Zay Flowers, like you'd be cooking, even you could have survived the Mark Andrews stuff. Uh, I mean, the Ravens are amazing. And yeah, every year, there's an offense that you want, that you can see coming. And then there's offense you probably would not have seen coming that maybe, you know, you could take a shot on. And yeah, Baltimore is absolutely that team this year that you wish you had been, you know, got the lightning in a bottle.

• 6:23Bill Simmons?

  Lamar would, at least in a, in normal leagues, Lamar 249.5 points. Now, he hasn't had a bye week yet, but he's 23 above the next guy, Baker Mayfield ironically. And then Daniels and Allen are the only two over 200. Henry is 35 points higher than any running back, which is Saquon Barkley. Kamara's after him, but Henry's almost at 200 points. And then Zay Flowers almost at 100 points. House, is there a chance the Washington Seawords could be a team? You would want to have the guys from down the stretch here with McLaurin and Daniels? And whatever the hell you got going on running back?

• 7:04Speaker 03

  I think just Daniels and McLaurin, I think. Maybe some Zach Ertz, sprinkle in a little Ertz. And then if you're really desperate, you know, depending on the size of your roster, there could be a flex spot for Austin Eckler here and there. You know, he gets catches and occasional runs.

• 7:21Bill Simmons?

  I had him last week. He was good last week. He was a little sneaky.

• 7:24Speaker 03

  Yeah. Well, cause B Rob was out. So there have been, you know, they've been swapping injuries the weeks that Eckler are out. And if B Rob's healthy, you get him going. But that, that would be it. It's not an expansive list. I honestly, I was hoping that Washington would get another receiver at the trade deadline, but it's okay. We're good. I like where we're at.

• 7:43Bill Simmons?

  Hi Fitz, there's, out of the win your league guys, which you always talk about, which I think is a good way to look at it. I think Lamar became a win your league guy and I think Derrick Henry did too, based on what you paid for them versus what they've actually produced. Saquon borderline, especially if he keeps coming the rest of the way. Who else? Who else is a win your league guy this year?

• 8:05Speaker 02

  I mean, I mean, I mean, Saquon absolutely, because I mean, think where you got him. I think the big picture look at fantasy this year, cause I don't know if it's a player as much as a position. I, I think the defining story of fantasy for the first half of the season, all the wide receivers are hurt. And all, and honestly, all the running backs are healthy. The first two running backs off the board, Christian McCaffrey, obviously it's a catastrophe. Breece Hall, you know, we call him Fleece Hall. He's been disappointing. The next like 16 running backs were pretty good picks outside of Travis Etienne. And then you look at receiver, I, I think that the, I mean, we can go into receivers in a minute, but the short answer to your question is every receiver was almost, except for, were like bad picks this year. And so it's really, I think it's less like if you hammered running backs in the middle outside the first round, then you're probably in a pretty good spot.

• 8:48Bill Simmons?

  Right. Well, it's funny that the running backs are doing that much better than the even the best receiver, right? If you just look at Chase has 115 points, which is the highest right now, which is pretty low in general for receivers. Jefferson's second at 110. Nobody else has over 100. But then you go to running backs and like Henry Barkley, Kamara, Gibbs, Kyron Williams, Bijon's at 123. He's higher than any receiver. So I wonder, are we moving back to the model where you have to get the two running backs first? And then you worry about the rest of the team after? I'm just trying to figure out what this season means, big picture for a draft, because it feels like we keep changing strategies. Quarterbacks don't matter. Now it really matters if you have Lamar. It's

• 9:33Bill Simmons?

  better to lock down these number one receivers. Now that doesn't matter as much because you need to get running backs. Where are we now?

• 9:39Speaker 02

  I know. I think the receiver thing's a total one-off fluke here and that next year, everyone's going to be like, take running backs. And next year, receivers will be a value because he just literally, I just looked at the top 30 receivers. You just go through them, like the ones that were in the order they were drafted this year. Tyree Kill, the Tua situation was awful. C.D. Lamb has been great, but he's hurt now. Amon Ra St. Brown's been good, but he hasn't been great. Justin Jefferson and Jamar Chase were fantastic. After that, A.J. Brown's been hurt. Garrett Wilson started slow, but it's been good. Pukunaku missed two months. Marvin Harrison Jr. had two good games. Debo Samuel's been hurt and had pneumonia. Drake London is solid, but just hurt his hip. Devante Adams missed multiple games. Nico Collins on injured reserve. Crystal Lobb's career may be over. Like Brandon Iyuk's on IR. Mike Evans out multiple weeks. Cooper Cup missed a month. DK Metcalf's hurt. DJ Moore has 33 yards more than he hasn't once in six weeks. Jalen

• 10:23Speaker 02

  Waddle's invisible. Stefan Diggs torn his ACL. Michael Pittman has a back issue. He's got over 37 yards twice the whole year. Neighbors has not been the same since the concussion. Amari Cooper at Deshaun Watson. Pickens has one touchdown. T. Higgins has a quad injury. Tank Dell hasn't had 62 yards in a game till this week. Rashid Rice out for the season. Chris Godwin out for the season. Who were you supposed to take? And I think that's the thing. It's just weird. Like the top 30 guys, all but four are bad or hurt.

• 10:48Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, my, my, the league that I'm not in with House, with Sal, the knockout league, I built around Cooper Cup, DJ Moore and Garrett Wilson. That was like 120 bucks, right? And Garrett Wilson has a ton of targets every week and he's actually been a little bit better than maybe you'd think these last few weeks, but just, you know, Cup got hurt and Moore's been a disaster. House, do you have a strategy when you go into a fantasy league? Or is it just how many drinks can you have and stay coherent on the Zoom? What is it?

• 11:13Speaker 03

  It's both. It's both things and get off a few dick jokes, you know, that, that's always a, an obligation and a requirement. But I look, you know, the, the receiver thing, I was bullish on Dalton Kincaid as a tight end who might get receiver like looks. That hasn't come to pass, but my own receiver core, we, we just, you know, you hear them right out of Danny's mouth. Jalen Waddle, sucktastic, Devontae Smith, second fiddle, makes a spectacular play once every three games. Great. And DJ Moore, that DJ Moore Caleb Williams was supposed to be a real thing. BS, I paid, how much did I pay for him? I don't even want to, too much. Yeah.

• 11:51Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, he was 30s and 40s.

• 11:53Speaker 03

  28, 28 I paid for in our auction league. Yeah. Just take that 28 and, and stick it where the sun don't shine. That's all.

• 12:01Bill Simmons?

  It, it feels like more and more these waiver wire guys going above what you feel like you should be spending. Like I have in the, in the knockout league, which I'm probably going to get, you know, I'm not going to even make the playoffs, but I, I overspent on Hopkins because I just liked the matchup with him and Mahomes. And I felt like, you know, if he's ever going to succeed on a team and look like the Hopkins from four years ago, it's with Mahomes. And then you watch the Monday night game and now if you're redoing who you'd want on your fantasy team going forward, Hopkins would be this amazing guy, but the point is he was on the fucking waiver wire because he was on the Titans. So, you know, and Tampa had the same thing with like that Jalen McMillan was hot for a week.

• 12:43Bill Simmons?

  Now this week it's Sterling Shepard, who, what's that guy's name? That's who it is, right?

• 12:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, Sterling Shepard, yeah. Who had to play Thompson ACL Achilles out of the Giants and now he's playing for Tampa. It's crazy.

• 12:54Bill Simmons?

  So every week there's a receiver and it's like whoever kind of looks out with one of those guys or, you know, whoever drafted Chuba Hubbard for a dollar. I, the big picture point to me is I, I really continue to just hate fantasy with every fiber in my body and I really don't know why we do it to ourselves.

• 13:11Speaker 02

  Uh, it's really stupid and dumb, uh, huge waste of time. And I, I think the answer is it's a chemical addiction I have. I don't know about you guys, but I think that I.

• 13:20Bill Simmons?

  Oh, it's like, it's like vaping?

• 13:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, basically.

• 13:23Bill Simmons?

  If you know it's bad.

• 13:24Speaker 02

  Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. I don't really want to be participating in it anymore, but I can't stop. But no, it's, the whole thing's ridiculous. I think that honestly, going into a season, I think it's important to just figure out there's like four lessons to take, or maybe there's two lessons to take and four lessons people think they should take. And I think half the key is like, for example, you know, going into the next season, people are gonna be like, oh, well, the receivers are bad, take running backs. And it's like, yeah, they all got hurt with hamstring injuries. It was kind of weird.

• 13:49Bill Simmons?

  Right. Don't zag too hard.

• 13:50Speaker 02

  Practice. Exact, yeah, don't zag too hard. Similarly with the waiver thing, everyone had Kyron Williams and Pukunakua, the biggest waiver additions to the whole year were made in week one. So everyone this year was like Isaiah Likely. And it's like, well, actually some years, it's a lot more like two years ago, Jerick McKinnon from December 1st on in 2022 had like led the league in receiving touchdowns. And like every now and then there's two or three waiver guys who shift the whole season, but you don't, but everyone just thinks about last season and has amnesia about anything before that. So it's just like paying attention to what's happening right now. It's honestly half the thing.

• 14:19Speaker 03

  Let, let me recommend this. I, I, I'm, I'm in a fantasy league that, that is literally called the no one gives a shit league. And we, every single person in the league sets up auto draft. The draft takes two and a half minutes. Nobody does one thing. All we do is get the thing set up. There's 10 teams. I don't know how big the roster is. You know why? Cause I don't give a shit. But it does give you the opportunity against those, those nine buddies to do the waiver wire. And you know, we have like a standard waiver wire thing. And really it's just an opportunity as I go week to week, it's like, uh, this guy, oh, I love this guy. I haven't seen him in a while. Let me send him a funny note right now. Oh, this guy, F this guy. I'm going to stick it to him.

• 15:03Speaker 03

  Let me try and you know, get in the waiver wire and, and steal the great defense this week. But really that's, that to me, that would be my recommendation. If, if you, if you insist on playing fantasy, that is, that's one way to approach it.

• 15:15Speaker 02

  Craig Horlbeck's greatest take of all time. You know, shameless plug here for the Ringer Fantasy Football Show. Craig's best take ever is that prepping for fantasy football is a huge waste of time.

• 15:25Bill Simmons?

  It's almost like William Goldman's, "Nobody knows anything about Hollywood." It's probably true.

• 15:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 15:30Bill Simmons?

  We see it every year because there's, like, I'm in a draft with Brad, who, by the way, beat me last week. Crazy Brad in the Sal draft, who took nine running backs out of 18 players in the draft. And by the way, I don't think he's traded any of them yet. And now everybody's trying to trade for his running backs. He looks like a genius, but as he was doing it, we thought he was completely insane because he is insane.

• 15:50Speaker 02

  I actually think, I swear to God, I actually think that that might be the best strategy in fantasy. You know why? Because when people do all these like advanced statistic modeling and everything you could do with fantasy football, I actually think what people forget to include is the value of trades. And like, I think what people forget is that, oh, in theory, you know, receivers are worth this and quarterbacks are worth this. Running backs are worth this. But three or, let's say, four weeks into the season, when there are injuries and you start to get bye weeks, everyone in the world is like, I'll give you a receiver for a running back. And no one wants to trade a running back for a receiver three weeks into the season. You take a little risk that someone gets hurt in week one or two, or you know, you take a risk that you have a Zemir White who just immediately sucks. But for the most part, if you make it three weeks, you can flip David Montgomery for, or Joe Mixon for someone who was drafted 30 spots higher.

• 16:36Speaker 02

  If you wait three weeks, which if you look at it by the principles of any other form of real investing is like incredible. You really probably should just take 10 running backs and then just keep four and flip the other four and no two will get hurt.

• 16:48Bill Simmons?

  See, I was ahead of my time back when quarterbacks, it was harder to find 10 of them when I was just drafting up quarterbacks. And you guys made fun of me for that, but there was one year where I had like five quarterbacks and it was like, guess what? Anyone gets hurt, the road goes through me. But now it's like there's, you can freaking pick up Bo Nix for a dollar and all of a sudden he's starting. It feels like there's 25 quarterbacks.

• 17:09Speaker 02

  Drake May, Drake May ran for 95 yards last week.

• 17:12Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, Drake May like, might be borderline starter. All right, so biggest disappointments this year? And I'm gonna rule out injury guys. I don't think it's fair to be like, I'm so disappointed in Nico Collins that he got hurt. These have to be, like Dak was disappointing before he got hurt, right?

• 17:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 17:29Bill Simmons?

  It's disappointing if you, like what I did in my league with Sal. I, I thought Nick Chubb was coming back sooner and it was gonna be healthier. So I'm like, I'm gonna lock down this Nick Chubb, Jerome Ford combo. And then it turns out, hey, Nick Chubb lost every ligament in his knee. Maybe it was gonna take a little longer for him. I can't get mad at him for that. But you start looking at like Breece Hall, who was the number one pick in the draft, right? And maybe that wasn't his fault. Maybe it's like how House's team took Alex Sar with the number two pick in the NBA draft. Oh, you, is it, are you gonna defend Alex Sar now?

• 18:03Speaker 03

  Why are we fighting, firing shots? I mean, you know.

• 18:06Bill Simmons?

  Shots. It's like, the draft wasn't that good. And it's like, we take Alex Sar. It was, you had to take somebody.

• 18:12Speaker 03

  The fantasy draft was good and, and Breece Hall wasn't supposed to be just anybody. It was supposed to be a top five offense with this incredible offensive line. And the 40-year-old, uh, you know, lightness in darkness drug experimenter was supposed to lead them to the promised land.

• 18:29Bill Simmons?

  Well, so it was, it was Bijon, it was Breece Hall. Who's the third?

• 18:34Speaker 02

  Uh, Breece, so, I mean, well, McCaffrey and McCaffrey was supposed to be first and I.

• 18:39Bill Simmons?

  And he got hurt for the year.

• 18:40Speaker 02

  But to your point, you know, I actually, I'll pat ourselves on the back. I think bring your fantasy football, you know, our rankings, I think we were one of the only sites to really move McCaffrey down off the first pick. We moved him to 12th and then back to fifth, but we moved him off first, which I would pat ourselves on the back, but then we moved Breece Hall to first, which man, he was like, one of the worst picks you could, not one of the worst, but I would say honestly, the most disappointing running back relative to where you take him. I'm putting McCaffrey to the side.

• 19:02Bill Simmons?

  But if you, if you had said, you know what? We have Derrick Henry first and Saquon Barkley second. People would have thought you were on drugs with Rogers.

• 19:09Speaker 02

  We, we joke all the time. I'm, I'm curious, I'm curious what you think, House. We joke all the time that we, we, we make tattoos, we wanna tattoo things on our body like that movie Memento. Uh, where we forget at the end of the season and then we get to July and like, we literally had a tattoo at the top of my notes for 2024, I had, don't rank Breece Hall over Kyron Williams. We did it anyway. And I feel like our rankings at the end of last. Season if you told us Derrick Henry go to Baltimore and Saquon go to Philly house wouldn't you well you should have just ranked the one two I'm like I don't even know how we talk ourselves

• 19:35Speaker 03

  out of this. Yes, yes, I mean, that's right, because both of those situations were incredible situations. They were all upside situations for for both players and and let's, you know, again, give credit where credit's due. The incredibly handsome Craig Horlbeck, Bill Simmons and I in August were together. Craig came on, gave us his top five. Derrick Henry was his number one under the radar fantasy selection. So you guys were on it. I mean, America should have been on it. All of the the models should have been on it. Those two guys have been the best and look at the numbers. There they are.

• 20:06Bill Simmons?

  Well, maybe Derrick Derrick Henry should just be treated like LeBron at this point where it's just like, just assume he's gonna keep doing this until he gets hurt. You're better off betting on it happening versus it not happening. But if we're talking real disappointments, we're talking about where you can get mad at somebody as we do in fantasy, even though it's all fake and it's not these guys' faults that we drafted them. If you were all in on Anthony Richardson, which I think people really spent on him, right? And they're like, I don't care if he's accurate. He's gonna run the ball. He's Cam Newton. And that's a disaster. Now, you you can audible at the quarterback position. You can audible if you're spending 28 to $40 on DJ Moore.

• 20:50Bill Simmons?

  So I think he has to be up there. If you're talking about first team all NBA fantasy football disappointments. And then Travis Etienne is another one because he was somewhere in the seven to 11 range for running backs, maybe 12. I don't know. But he was like in that second tier. He killed me in one of my leagues. He hasn't been good any week and he's always got the red flag with him. You never know what's going on. He's on a shit team. Tank Bigsby kind of took his took a lot of his plays and his minutes and that one is just like a sunk cost, right?

• 21:24Speaker 02

  I think ETN quietly might be the answer here, which he's not nearly as famous as or as interesting, frankly, as Anthony Richardson. But you're right. Like, you know what? If you have Richardson, it sucked. You're probably angriest at Anthony Richardson, but you can add Bo Nix. ETN has, I actually think ETN is the single most frustrating player fantasy maybe entire season because you probably took him in the second round. You might've taken him either before or just probably right. Like if you, you know that there has to be like, we need a value over replacement. We need like anger over replacement. Like you look back at your

• 21:51Bill Simmons?

  fantasy over, yeah.

• 21:53Speaker 02

  Yeah. Cause you look back at the draft recap and you're like, oh, it went Derrick Henry, Saquon, Kyron Williams, and then I got Travis ETN. Like, that's the worst thing you can look back at and see. He's better when he's out because then you play someone else. When you play Travis ETN, he gets two and a half points. It's the worst possible thing.

• 22:10Speaker 03

  It's a FARP. It's the fantasy anger replacement level.

• 22:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 22:16Bill Simmons?

  This is good. So ETN had the highest FARP?

• 22:19Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 22:19Bill Simmons?

  I think Devonte Adams has to be on there, too. There's still a chance for him to salvage it, but I was surprised that he was going where he was going. One of the things I've noticed with fantasy, and especially because I've been doing it since 1990, house is probably somewhere in the mid 90s, but we always discount the awesome receiver who's got shit quarterbacks. And it's like, well, no, it'll be fine. It's Devonte Adams. And it's like, it actually won't be fine. He's got Aiden O'Connell and Gardner Minshew throwing the ball. Guess what? It's not going to be fine. And then you watch that quarterback show and he's bitching about Garoppolo the whole time. And it's like, he's probably not going to handle this well either. So I was, that was one of the ones where I was amazed people were talking about. I think Debo, and I know he got hurt, but I also feel like that's a buyer beware

• 23:04Bill Simmons?

  when you're spending money on Debo because he gets hurt every year. And the position that him, to me, him and Puka are, if you take those guys and you watch them play football, those guys are in car collisions 10 times a game, whether they're blocking or going over the middle. I don't want any part of that stuff. So I don't, I don't feel bad for that. Here's the other one I have for you. Laporta. Laporta is being treated like Kelsey, right?

• 23:29Bill Simmons?

  What happened?

• 23:30Speaker 02

  We joke on our show that there are certain players that are like, did you know that there's a fourth Jonas Brother? There's actually four.

• 23:36Bill Simmons?

  Is there really?

• 23:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, I know, right? I didn't know this either. Craig told me. And we joke that there are certain players every year that are like the fourth Jonas Brother. Like you look at the Detroit Lions and everyone on that team's incredible. Goff is, I mean, they have more touchdowns than Goff and completions in the last six weeks. You have Jameer Gibbs and David Montgomery are crushing. Amon Ra St. Brown, Jameis Williams, when he's not suspended is incredible. And then, oh yeah, I forgot Sam Laporta's on that team. And it's like, you watch the Lions game, they put up 49 points. You're like, Laporta must've done something. No, he's blocking.

• 24:04Bill Simmons?

  It's brutal. It really upsets me. I was a believer in the Kelsey thing, but we, the Kelsey's another one in that Derrick Henry, LeBron conversation where we always look for guys to take over Kelsey. New up and comers, did it with Kyle Pitts for a couple of years. And, you know, Laporta, super disappointing. Kincaid's on there. Waddle and Tyreek, I think both have to be on there, but you can't blame them with the Tua thing.

• 24:29Speaker 02

  Dude, Waddle hasn't had 50 yards since week one.

• 24:32Bill Simmons?

  Waddle, you watch the Dolphins and you forget he's on the team for like two hours. And then they'll throw him like a bubble screen and you'll be like, oh my God, it's Jalen Waddle. I forgot he was on the Dolphins.

• 24:42Bill Simmons?

  Mahomes. Now, he's the best player in the league and they're undefeated. Well, he's one of the best players in the league because there's a real Lamar case, but it felt like his fantasy value started to bleed over with his real life value in a way that didn't really make sense because he's running less and less every year. And did you notice though, because in all my drafts, he was more expensive than he probably should have been. Is there something to that?

• 25:08Speaker 02

  I think that Mahomes is so famous that yeah, it affected, I mean, just to give you an idea, I got this from Ian Hardin, it's at Fantasy Life. Patrick Mahomes and CJ Stroud have fewer top 12 finishes this year, weekly. Mahomes and Stroud, fewer top 12 weekly combined than Daniel Jones.

• 25:27Bill Simmons?

  Oh my God.

• 25:29Speaker 02

  So that's what Patrick Mahomes and C.C. Brown are doing.

• 25:32Speaker 03

  Well, if you took Mahomes, that's on you because all you had to do was watch football last season. Like, you know, there, it's a different, it's a different offense, a different system, a different set of weapons. Like, you know, if you took Mahomes and paid for it, you get what you deserve.

• 25:48Bill Simmons?

  Well, and then the other, the other disappointment was if you backed Caleb over Daniels, right? If you're like, I believe in a rookie QB.

• 25:56Speaker 03

  With weapons.

• 25:57Bill Simmons?

  All these weapons and you just kind of overlook all the Daniels buzz, which House did not overlook. And you, Hype, that you probably noticed too, because that's where he lived, but there was real breadcrumbs of Daniels the whole preseason. And yet there it was. He was six to one for our fantasy Rookie of the Year. He was like a one or $2 guy in fantasy drafts. Everybody kind of overlooked it.

• 26:17Speaker 02

  And I think the other thing with fantasy, I think, sometimes I think the simplest way to explain why we forget the lessons we thought we learned is that it's, it's kind of like basketball. You look back at a game and you see a score. But actually, that, you know, especially I feel like now, it's a game of runs, right? Like someone was up 18 and then it gets erased and then someone's up 20. And it's like, oh, and it's like fantasy. It's like, I don't know, the guy I keep thinking of is like DeAndre Swift, who looked like he should get benched for the first three or four weeks of the season. And then in September, and then in October, DeAndre Swift's like a top eight running back in fantasy. And it's all kind of like that. And you look at back and you look back and you remember it a certain way. But the reality is, DeAndre Hopkins is someone, like you were saying, who was released by a lot of people. And you know what? Going forward, Kansas City's

• 27:01Speaker 02

  the first player who's actually an A or an A plus at catching the football Patrick Mahomes has ever played with at any level his entire career. And you're like, he could be a top five receiver going forward purely because he could catch the ball from Mahomes. And so, but we don't think of it that way when we look back. You know what I mean? We, we see the whole thing. We remember it a certain way.

• 27:20Bill Simmons?

  Let's, uh, to a quick break and then I want to get, guys, you're looking at the rest of the way.

• 27:26Bill Simmons?

  What's better than touchdowns? Touchdowns with a boost. With FanDuel, you can make your next touchdown bet an even bigger one with a 30% Gronk profit spike. That means you can get an even bigger payout on your next anytime touchdown bet. So when they get in the end zone, you'll win big. Like, take DeAndre Hopkins, plus 180 this weekend. He's Mahomes' new favorite toy. Just visit FanDuel.com/BS to download America's number one sportsbook. FanDuel, official partner of the NFL. Must be 21-plus and present in select states or 18-plus and present in DC. Opt-in required. Max wager amount applies. Bonus issued as non-d withdrawable profit boost tokens. Restrictions apply, including token expiration. See terms for both offers at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Game problem?

• 28:09Bill Simmons?

  Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Whether it's a pumpkin spice coffee that goes splat in your seat, or a weekend tailgate that leaves your trunk full of gear and who knows what, you're gonna want WeatherTech in your vehicle. Whether you call it fall, autumn, or spooky season, whether the mess is your fault, the kids, the dogs, or the weather's fault, you're gonna want WeatherTech for American-made floor liners and a cargo liner that laugh in the face of fall weather. Visit weatherTech.com today. All right. Hi, Fitz. We got like four weeks left until the playoffs. Are there waiver wire, deep stealth waiver wire guys you like? Are there guys we should be trading for that hopefully other people in your league aren't listening to this podcast? Are there, is there anybody arrow pointing up that you're just staring at right now?

• 28:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, if you want to trade candidates, I think it's Devon Achan, the running back for the Dolphins. It's a little tough because you're gonna have to pay a lot more than you would have three weeks ago because two is back and he had a good week last week. But the thing is, I don't know if you could give up too much because I think Achan's probably the best bet along with Derrick Henry, be the number one running back in fantasy the rest of the way, the Vile Chop. And I basically, it's never too late. You know, make, put it, change your order to the Vile Chop. Just, just do it. You know, it's a little awkward to call over the waiter, but just go get the Vile Chop.

• 29:17Bill Simmons?

  You know, House didn't like that Vile Chop analogy. Cause House always likes the veal chop.

• 29:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, wait, I misunderstood. I thought you were saying it was a good thing.

• 29:26Bill Simmons?

  Well, I was saying the veal chop, it's a, it's an order where half the time you love it and then half the time they didn't cook it perfectly and you're mad you spent $89 on it.

• 29:35Speaker 03

  Oh, well, then you're ordering it from the wrong place. Never, never, never.

• 29:38Bill Simmons?

  That was David Chang's argument. Yeah.

• 29:40Speaker 03

  Never risk a veal chop. Never risk it. You never go in and play veal chop roulette. No. You must know that it's magnificent and then you go have it and it's magnificent.

• 29:47Speaker 02

  But then how do you know if it's magnificent until you get the veal chop?

• 29:50Bill Simmons?

  How do you know?

• 29:50Speaker 03

  You let, you let, you let the fools before you go.

• 29:53Bill Simmons?

  What if I'm just at a steakhouse in Chicago that I've never been to and they had the veal chop? What do I do?

• 29:58Speaker 03

  Get a steak. Unless, unless you walk in, they say the famous veal chop.

• 30:02Speaker 02

  But that's exactly what we did. We let someone else get a Chan. They're the fool. And then they had the whole thing with.

• 30:07Bill Simmons?

  Right. Now you trade for him in week 10.

• 30:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:10Bill Simmons?

  House is incredibly excited. This is not an ad for the deep fried turkey sandwich by Arby's in time for Thanksgiving. There's an ad, I sent House a picture. You haven't had it yet though.

• 30:20Speaker 03

  The nearest Arby's to me is like 40 minutes away. You think that I haven't budgeted time in my schedule for later this evening to go out to that Arby's? But I have. Yes, I have. I, we're gonna go.

• 30:32Bill Simmons?

  Deep fried turkey sandwich. Sounds delicious.

• 30:35Speaker 03

  It's November. It's all Thanksgiving food all the time. I made cornbread stuffing over the weekend just to get it going. Just to get the gooses, the juices and gooses flowing. Both of them.

• 30:45Speaker 02

  Can I get the cornbread stuffing recipe?

• 30:47Bill Simmons?

  Send that to him. Send him after Bud. Who else do you have? If it's AJ and who else?

• 30:51Speaker 02

  If you need to trade target, Jameson Williams for the Lions is someone who people might be frustrated them because he was suspended. But I mean, man, the Lions offense just get a piece of that. And then if you want waiver ads, this isn't the most sexy advice, but I would say, again, every year there's five players that just triple your odds of winning the championship. And then three are drafted and two are out on waivers. And this year it was like Derrick Henry, Lamar, Jin Daniels. They didn't get hurt. Chris Godwin, Rashid Rice. But then waivers this year, I don't think it's happened yet. I don't think those players, maybe Kate Otten for the Bucks was that guy. But going forward, the guy, if Kyron Williams for the Rams gets hurt, Blake Corum is the guy that I think, you know, could just be the top five running back for the month of December. And like, it only if Kyron Williams gets hurt. And then similarly, Braylon Allen. Where I actually think Graylin Allen has become a better fit in this specific Rogers offense.

• 31:34Speaker 02

  That's not fun to sit here and be like, oh, you're trying to arbitrage an injury. It sucks. But that kind of is how things get decided all the time in fantasy. So those are the highest upside players. And also weirdly Xavier Leggett, the Panthers Carolina receiver with the greatest accent of all time. I also just feel like he's going to get a ton of garbage time targets over the last two months of the season.

• 31:51Bill Simmons?

  You know, there's, there's been some quarterback injuries like Lawrence is out, right? Bryce Young is playing, which almost counts as a quarterback injury. But one guy that I thought had a chance to really come on, but now that Lawrence is out and it's, I don't think it's going to happen with Mac Jones is Brian Thomas, Jr. Who's been surprisingly good from a fantasy type, but I also feel like there's been times when he's been open. That Lawrence has overthrown him or there's been a P I, but I was kind of looking at him. I have him on a team too. But for him to like, make a jump, I was trying to figure out every year, right around now, a rookie receiver makes a giant jump. Right? So it's 100%. Could be Leggett. It could be, um, uh, what's his face? Uh, I don't think it's going to be Roma Dunze.

• 32:37Speaker 02

  Well, I think Roma Dunze, it could be because he's the guy that if you've had Roma Dunze this long, like you're fed up with him. So he's cheap. But Lad McConkey, but to your point, you're totally right. It's always like rookie receivers. It's the opposite of rookie wall. They get better as the season goes on over and over. Any rookie receiver, frankly, is a good bet. Brian Thomas is a good one too, because he's been good, but now he's banged up and Trevor Lawrence is banged up. So if you're going to make the playoffs. Yeah, maybe Lawrence comes back in December though. Maybe you can, you know, maybe.

• 33:00Bill Simmons?

  I'm staring at Xavier Worthy as a possibility too, because it feels like he's open three times a game, but it's, it's too risky. House likes him.

• 33:08Speaker 03

  I like it because that's what Hopkins delivers to that offense, right? Now that, that, um, Patrick has his possession guy, the guy he knows that if he puts it within a five yard radius, the dude's going to get it. Now you can try and spring those big plays and we'll get worthy for those, those explosive touchdowns. Speaking of explosive touchdowns, I want to ask about my guy, uh, Amari, uh, De, Ed, De Marcato?

• 33:33Speaker 02

  De Marcato?

• 33:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 33:35Bill Simmons?

  Wow, you're really, what are you, 80 years old? You can't say his name?

• 33:39Speaker 03

  Look up the name and you try and say it, you son of a bitch. You're like, you of all people, look up the name and you try and say it.

• 33:46Speaker 02

  House, do you know that's actually how I got hired here is I'm the only person in the world worse at pronouncing names than Bill.

• 33:51Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Hytis is really abominable. I always think I have one guy on, on staff that's worse than I am.

• 33:57Speaker 02

  I didn't even submit a resume. I submitted a resume.

• 33:59Speaker 03

  He's the super mercado. That's what I'm gonna call him because he busted that run at the end of the first half that really sucked all the life out of the Bears. And every week I look on and James Cook has something next to his name. Connor Cook. I did it again. James Connor. Always, there's always something red next to that dude's name.

• 34:18Bill Simmons?

  Last year was James Cook, who in the second half of the year went nuts. And then I watched that Ray Davis and Ray Davis was another one. Before we wrap up fantasy, so I told you I was in this guillotine league and I, I'd sent the Dany's and Craig, the lineup, but I'm still alive heading into week 10. This is by far the best football league I've been in. It really gets fun when the players get weeded out, when everybody starts running out of auction money, when there's big ass players on the table, but nobody has money left. Everybody has a good team now, so you really have to put time and care into who, who you're starting as like your two receivers, your two running backs, your two flex.

• 34:58Bill Simmons?

  We've had Lamar, so it's been like, you know, we've, we've been kinda cruising, but Lamar has the bye week coming up. So you're looking ahead. We both of our starting running backs are out in week 12. So you're looking ahead, trying to patch together.

• 35:12Bill Simmons?

  But I do wonder, is this just the future of fantasy? And it ties into where our society is now, where we need everything to be decided fast and we don't, we don't wanna, you know, you watch a show and it's like, I didn't, I watched one episode of that Hulu show. I didn't like it. Oh, I tried disclaimer, I'm out. Maybe this is just how fantasy should be. Like in the league I'm in with House, I think I'm eight and one and I, and I'm like, oh, whatever. I'm gonna make the playoffs. Like, I don't really care. This guillotine league, I'm like, oh my God, what do we do? We have $39 left. Is this just where things are going, Hyphens?

• 35:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's you kids these days just need enough dopamine. You know what I mean? You never get enough, but.

• 35:48Bill Simmons?

  It's a dopamine league.

• 35:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I mean, maybe that's why, you know, you're never winning these leagues, Bill. You're eight and one and you're just not fine tuning. You know, you're moving on. Like, that's not good enough. Like, you gotta calibrate this left. I think, no, I think you're right though, because you know what the real answer is?

• 36:00Speaker 02

  I think that everyone, you know, you have one fantasy league, it's great. Maybe you have two fantasy leagues and that's awesome. I'm, I do this for my job and I actually find three or four plus and it's hard to like, care and manage for everything. Four is my number and it's my job where I'm like, oh, I would say that it should be the future of work fantasy leagues. Because if you have an office league, no one's office league is like their number one fantasy league.

• 36:23Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, good point.

• 36:24Speaker 02

  And so the people who are gonna check out, your coworkers checking out. Guillotine is a perfect office fantasy football league. Because it's never gonna be your primary, but that way you can check out once you're out. But when you're in it, it's still pretty fun.

• 36:35Bill Simmons?

  House, I think it solves the basketball fantasy problem that we've had. We, House and I just left another basketball league we were in. We, we've been in a bunch of different NBA leagues really since the 90s. And we've never really been happy with any of them because you have situations like, well, you have this week where there's already five guys out. It's like, oh, I started Tyrese Maxey and he got hurt on a Monday and now I'm screwed. And, um, and I wonder if NBA Guillotine is, is like a, like a way to do this.

• 37:02Speaker 02

  Hmm. The problem with fantasy basketball, yeah, that's good. Cause like you can't be streaming power forwards on Thursdays. And like, that's how you win a fantasy basketball league. Like, that's just ridiculous. But that's not a bad idea.

• 37:12Bill Simmons?

  Especially in the rest management era, I don't even know how you, like, nobody plays. Basically, you have to take Tatum or some of these dudes that are gonna play 70, 75 games a year.

• 37:21Speaker 03

  Respectfully, I'm never playing NBA fantasy again. Not, not season long. I mean, it's, it's preposterous. You can't put guys in your lineup and then find out two days later that he, he tugged a hamstring or whatever, they're gonna sit him for three games. I mean, not even real injuries, you know, I just, I'm out. But I think what you are describing as the potential go forward for fantasy football is kinda brilliant. It's, it's, to me, it's one or the other. It's either the no one gives a shit where everybody auto drafts and it's super fun. And we just, you know, uh, you only pay attention to waiver wire stuff. Try and build a team through the wire. Or it's Guillotine, where literally he chopped the head off. I love it so much. I wish the league that we're in together BS, the Larchmont League, that my head was already chopped off.

• 38:06Speaker 03

  Because I'm just, I'm trying my best. I want integrity.

• 38:10Bill Simmons?

  You could just be out, you never have to think about it again.

• 38:12Speaker 03

  I'd prefer to be out. I don't wanna watch CJ Moore anymore. I'm done with him.

• 38:16Bill Simmons?

  That's, I forgot to mention that part, Hyphens, the Guillotine League.

• 38:20Speaker 03

  It's brutal when you get knocked out, right? Everybody says goodbye. It's basically like The Bachelor. You're out. I'm sorry. Please say goodbye. You hug everyone. You get walked out to the limo. But then you don't have to ever think about the league again. The league I'm in with Sal and those guys, I'm two and seven. I still feel like I have to make moves. I have two running, so $5 a move. I'm mad I'm spending $10 so I can try to go three and seven. I'm like, I just want out of this. Please. Get me out. And then if I don't make moves, I'm an asshole, right? People are like, oh, you're not filming competitive team. I was just like, fuck this. Hate this league. Hi Fitz, before we go, we're about to do million dollar picks.

• 39:02Speaker 03

  Your favorite team, the New York Football Giants, are playing the worst team in football, a team coming off a win last week that for the Panthers to win two games in a row with the shitty team they have would be improbable and unbelievable. The Giants line is, I think, six and a half. And nobody's allowed to tease them. My question is, could the Giants beat the hell out of the Panthers? Cause like, right now I'm in Boston. There's some adjusted line, Giants on FanDuel, Giants to win by 14 or more, plus 240. Giants to win by 17 or more, plus 340. Giants to win by 20 or more, plus 480.

• 39:48Speaker 03

  Or the Giants to win by 24 or more, plus 840. Could the Giants run up the score on the Panthers, in your opinion?

• 39:58Speaker 02

  Yes, yes, they could. I don't know if eight to one is good enough for a 24 point win, but like, yes, they have, the Giants absolutely could. Because first of all, let me tell you something. If I know one thing's gonna happen, it's gonna be that the Giants are gonna screw up their chances to get a quarterback. Like, the Giants had the sixth pick in the draft last year. They beat the teams ahead of them four times. They beat your Patriots once, and you got, you know, Drake May. They beat Arizona, who got Marvin Harrison, and they beat Washington twice. And if they just hadn't done that, they would have gotten Jayden Daniels. They're gonna do that again. There's like nine teams that have two wins. The Giants are gonna win this game. And also, I know you guys do million dollar picks. And I know that you, every week, you're like, oh, we're not supposed to do teasers. I'm done with the teasers. Do some teasers. Tease the Giants, six points, you know, the Giants giving a half a point.

• 40:42Speaker 02

  Tease the Eagles to beat the Cowboys by half a point, one point.

• 40:46Bill Simmons?

  We have the Eagles.

• 40:47Speaker 02

  NFC East, Giants Eagles, like the Eagles are going to destroy Dallas. I don't know why that's just seven points. Dallas can't stop the run and they set most yards, percentage of their yards in the entire league is from passing and Dax out. So the Eagles are going to run all over the Cowboys and then the Giants are going to win this game. I know it because the alternative is I'll be happy with the Giants. There's no chance.

• 41:06Bill Simmons?

  So the Giants, this will be the week when everybody's like, oh, we have the eighth pick instead of the second. It was because we won that stupid Carolina game.

• 41:14Speaker 02

  Yes, 100%. The Giants defense is good and the Panthers defense is horrific. I mean,

• 41:19Bill Simmons?

  How's, can I, can I read you some scores from the Panthers this year?

• 41:23Speaker 03

  I'm here. I'm here to listen.

• 41:25Bill Simmons?

  Week one, they lost by 37. Week two, they lost by 23 to the Chargers. By the way, they lost to 37 to the fucking Saints. They lost by 23 to the Chargers. They lost by 26 to the Bears. They lost by 18 to Atlanta. They lost by 33 to your team. And they lost by 14 to Bo Nix and got mad that they felt like the Broncos were running up to score. So they've already had six games where they've lost by 14 or more. Why wouldn't we, why wouldn't we do an adjusted with the Giants? I, I could totally see them running it up on this crappy Panthers team.

• 42:01Speaker 03

  The, the super fun thing to add in there is like, do you think Carolina is a, as a franchise, has their shit together enough to really get this travel down? Do you think that like all the trains are, are arriving at the station at the same time?

• 42:15Bill Simmons?

  It's a Germany game. Yeah, yeah.

• 42:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, they're in Germany. Do you think that, that like Carolina's organizational skill, what they've demonstrated in terms of their ability to navigate logistics. It's like, oh yeah, those guys will all be in perfect shape in, in this game against the Giants. I like, the only thing that makes me tap the brakes in any way, shape or form when it comes to the Giants is that left tackle, Andrew Thomas is still out on, on IR.

• 42:39Bill Simmons?

  You don't really have an offensive line. It's a good point.

• 42:41Speaker 02

  Panthers are the worst pass rusher in the NFL though.

• 42:43Speaker 03

  It's true. That is the rebuttal.

• 42:44Speaker 02

  I, I would,

• 42:45Speaker 03

  Danny's right.

• 42:46Speaker 02

  Parlay, you parlay a Giants alt line with an Eagles alt line and you'll get like 20 to one.

• 42:51Bill Simmons?

  Wow.

• 42:51Speaker 03

  I do like this NFC least trying to get in on, on a way to, to cash in a parlay or teaser. I'm, I'm fine with it.

• 42:59Bill Simmons?

  Can I? I feel embarrassed to admit this, but I kinda like the Giants' skill position, guys.

• 43:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, no.

• 43:05Speaker 03

  Why are you embarrassed?

• 43:06Bill Simmons?

  I think Tyrone Tracy's good.

• 43:08Speaker 03

  He's good.

• 43:09Bill Simmons?

  Singletary's a good backup. Neighbors is super exciting.

• 43:13Speaker 02

  Tyrone Tracy's the argument for why the Giants let Saquon Barkley go. And as much as it's been crushing to watch Saquon be amazing and reverse hurdling over dudes, like, the reality is, he's on a win-now team and he looks better. But like, Tyrone Tracy's a fifth or sixth-round pick. He's making eight or nine percent of what Saquon makes and he's like delivering.

• 43:31Bill Simmons?

  You can't criticize it with how good he's looked, even though it was a terrible move to let your best guy go.

• 43:36Speaker 02

  It'd be cooler if he was backing up Saquon.

• 43:38Bill Simmons?

  On paper, it makes sense. It's just, it's tough. He goes to one of the teams you're trying to beat. Have you talked yourself into Belichick or Vrabel yet?

• 43:48Speaker 02

  I can't tell you how ready I am to hand this entire team to Bill Belichick. I can't even begin to describe how quickly, how quickly I would hand Dexter Lawrence to Bill Belichick. By sprint. Give me, yeah, whatever. Sure.

• 44:03Bill Simmons?

  Belichick is on a six-month, trying to prove to everybody what an awesome personality he is and that it's actually not true that he's a curmudgeon. And here's how much I know about football and look how personable I am. Also, he can get one of these jobs in February. I think he likes day ball. I think that part's probably awkward. And it feels like for the Giants, it would have to be a complete housecleaning, right? It's like, they've gotten rid of everybody. I still feel like Jacksonville is gonna be the team for him.

• 44:32Speaker 02

  I think that that's, that makes a lot of sense because the Jaguars, I mean, they did it with Tom Coughlin, right? They gave Tom Coughlin total control of the organization.

• 44:39Bill Simmons?

  They're building a new arena. Like, you just be like, you hand the franchise to this guy. He's a legend. Here's our new arena. Here's Bill Belichick. Here's Trevor Lawrence. How, does that make sense to you?

• 44:50Speaker 03

  It would make more sense to me if he was a big golf guy because there's an incredible resort. Sea Island is right, right, right? You know, like, less than an hour away. Like, respectfully, respectfully. I'll say this, it means you have to go live in Jacksonville.

• 45:05Bill Simmons?

  Wow.

• 45:06Speaker 02

  I think that was like Talladega Nights with all due respect, you know, you just say whatever you want.

• 45:09Bill Simmons?

  Anytime respectfully or all due respect is used. Ruiz called out the Belichick Jacksonville thing, I don't know how many weeks ago on this pod. The other one would, which would be fun from a narrative standpoint is Vegas with,

• 45:22Bill Simmons?

  just like him and Brady being reunited in some weird way with no craft, but.

• 45:26Speaker 02

  Belichick being Brady, Brady, having Brady be his boss. I don't know if that's gonna happen.

• 45:30Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, that was just, that's a fun narrative one. I, I can't imagine after what Belichick went through with Cam Newton and with Mac Jones, that he would go to a team that didn't have a quarterback. Look, look at what happened with Harbaugh. Harbaugh went to a team that had good players and a good market with Justin Herbert as his quarterback. And he had an offensive line and, and he could immediately make that team pretty good. I think Belichick's too smart to be like, ah, we'll figure out the quarterback. He knows.

• 45:59Speaker 02

  Here's my question for you. What do you think he wants? Because this is like a Phil Jackson thing where he kind of wants control, but like, you know, he's, he's, it's kind of like a check as you're going out. Or do you think that there's like real motivation and that like, we'll see a level of energy we probably have never seen from a 70 year old coach?

• 46:13Bill Simmons?

  I think a chip on the shoulder combined with the wins record. So he's got to go to a place where he can put together wins. I don't think he wants to rebuild something from the bottom.

• 46:23Speaker 02

  But like 18 wins in two years? Like that's, that doesn't sound great to me. Like if he's like, oh, we've eked out three 10 win seasons and lost in the wild card round and then he retires. I don't know if that's like necessarily awesome for someone who has literally zero track record of any of his coaches having any kind of like legacy whatsoever.

• 46:41Bill Simmons?

  Dallas?

• 46:43Speaker 03

  No, you beat me to it. Why not?

• 46:45Speaker 02

  Zero chance. I would, I would, I will, no, zero chance.

• 46:48Speaker 03

  Let's gamble on it.

• 46:50Speaker 02

  I, I will serve.

• 46:51Speaker 03

  I'll buy you a veal chop.

• 46:53Speaker 02

  I will serve drinks at your draft. Like, like I'll, I'll be like Cabana Boy if, if that happens.

• 46:58Speaker 03

  It's an auto draft. I don't have any draft.

• 47:00Speaker 02

  Minutes. No, but like, like basically like Dallas Cowboys, I don't know if you saw this great story from Kalen Cole already ESPN this week, but basically like, just to give you a window into Jerry Jones's mind, they have tours going through the facility just to like, like, Mark the Parsons is limping with his family through the Cowboys facility. There's like. Visitors who paid, they're making like 1,200 bucks off this to like have people watch and there's like fans like, oh my God, Michael Parsons doesn't look good. Like it's the opposite of the Kremlin. And then the, the whole reason Jerry screwed up is because Jimmy Johnson got all the credit for the cow 90s Cowboys. Jimmy Johnson was the, how about the, how about them Cowboys? Jimmy Johnson got all the credit. The entire last 20 years has been Jerry trying to get his own credit. That's why he didn't want Bill Parcells.

• 47:36Bill Simmons?

  Sounds like Bob Kraft.

• 47:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, like, yeah, exactly. It's like, like the Bob Kraft making the talk. That's every move Jerry's made for 20 years has been like that. That's, and Parcells is not going to tell Belichick to take that job. And, and I, I, there's no way that Jerry can let Belichick get the credit, make decisions. It's like Jerry wants to get attention and get all the control and all the attention for having control. I, I would be, I think Belichick would sit out another season before he took the Dallas job.

• 48:03Bill Simmons?

  The credit thing is so weird to me when people, like Kraft hired Belichick. That's all he did. There's no other thing he gets credit for. He kept the team in New England instead of them moving to St. Louis. He didn't move them to Hartford and he hired Bill Belichick. There's no other thing I can point to that he did other than be cheap the last 10 years. Jerry hired Jimmy Johnson. He gets credit for that. He built that awesome stadium. Great. But other than that, they've just been another football team the last 20 years. House went through this with Snyder. These guys that come in and think people care about the owner. They don't. They just want the team to be good. That's it. Um, can I, can I read you a stat that might color this conversation?

• 48:44Speaker 02

  Please.

• 48:46Bill Simmons?

  Bill Belichick has 302 wins. How many do you think Andy Reid is behind right now?

• 48:54Speaker 02

  15, 20.

• 48:57Bill Simmons?

  He's at 266, so he's 36 behind. But you figure six, seven more, right? They're eight and O. They get to 15 and two. So he'll be at 273. He'll be within 30 by the end of the year and he is 1958.

• 49:17Bill Simmons?

  And Belichick is 1952, six years younger. That's another reason. I, I, that's why I don't think he goes to like, oh, I've taken over the Panthers. Like it's, he's gotta go to a team that he can actually win games the way Harbaugh did.

• 49:33Speaker 02

  That's a good point because it's kind of like Popovich with getting Wemba Yama where it's like, Reed's gonna do this till he's in the grave. Like he's not like until Mahomes goes.

• 49:40Bill Simmons?

  Why would he leave?

• 49:41Speaker 02

  No, I would.

• 49:42Bill Simmons?

  Also Reed's smarter than everybody. Everybody else, like Reed is like, you know what I'll do here? I'll just take the field goal. I'll take the three points so we can go up seven. I have Patrick Mahomes. Like he doesn't overthink any of this shit.

• 49:52Speaker 02

  The, the Chiefs actually have a Patriots like infrastructure because I think what's correct, I think there's a weird thing going on in the NFL right now where there's assumption that youth brings new ideas. And in reality, sometimes youth brings new ideas, but you can also bring the cowardice to stand out. And I think what a really interesting thing that the Chiefs have is that Andy Reid is the perfect coach, CEO, play caller, stability. Mahomes is Mahomes and they work together. The other thing they have going for them is that Steve Spagnola.

• 50:17Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 50:17Speaker 02

  Is as innovative as any defensive coordinator in the NFL. And if you were 39, everyone would say, hire Steve Spagnolo to be your head coach. But he's like 58, so no one wants to hire Steve Spagnolo, even though.

• 50:29Bill Simmons?

  Well, he's also been a head coach.

• 50:30Speaker 02

  Wait 15 years ago.

• 50:32Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, and he wasn't good.

• 50:33Speaker 02

  That was in 2009. You know what I mean? I'm like, yeah, like there were, the, the other guys being interviewed were in high school in 2009. Like he's had an entire another career. He's the only coordinator that's ever won four Super Bowls. And it's crazy to think Steve Spagnolo's not gonna get another job. And so the Chiefs have this infrastructure of Brett Veach, the GM, Andy Reid, Mahomes and Spagnolo for, I don't know, seven, eight years? And they're old, but they're still innovating. And so it's everything you need and they're not gonna get disrupted.

• 50:59Bill Simmons?

  That's what the Pats had. Well, House just went through it. He hired a new coach for the Washington Seawords. Quinn came in. He wasn't Ron Rivera.

• 51:08Bill Simmons?

  That was, that was first good thing. He actually had a good quarterback. It's a good thing, but you can see like he, he's definitely changed the energy. That was what he did with the Dallas defense too, when he was there. That's what he did in Atlanta for a few years. But he's like a big chemistry vibes, motivational, drop an F bombs guy, Red House. Like he's

• 51:27Speaker 03

  Oh, a thousand percent, a thousand F bombs. I couldn't love him anymore. And you know, the thing that matters is how relevant he is to these players, right? They, he, he stole some Dallas guys. He brought Dorance Armstrong over, who is, if you look at, you know, his disruption rates for, for Armstrong, he's in the, in the proper court. He's where you want him to be. But Dan Quinn, they, they're playing for him. Schefter did a report last week about Washington being a desirable place for free agents. What? Washington, this place? The football team? F yes, because of Dan Quinn.

• 52:05Bill Simmons?

  I, I thought that was a weird report.

• 52:08Speaker 03

  Okay. Well, it's fine. I'm just saying the fact that it existed.

• 52:11Bill Simmons?

  NFL players are just sitting around going, man, what are the most desirable play? Like it's like, we would do a podcast, like two wide receivers in the wide receiver room going, what are your top five free agent destinations? Oh, Washington looks like they have a good thing going. I don't know where that stuff comes from.

• 52:27Speaker 02

  I actually 1,000% think that's what wide receivers do is just look around and look at the greener grass all the time. They're like, and they players, they're just like, oh, it'd be so cool if I play. It's like, I'd be so cool if I played with Dame Lillard. Then you play with Dame Lillard, you're like, oh, this kind of sucks.

• 52:40Bill Simmons?

  But, but that's the thing. I'm sure they watched Jaden Daniels on the red zone or on NFL.com and they're like, man, that guy's good. I'd rather have him than Gardner Minshew.

• 52:50Speaker 02

  House, did you see what neighbors said last week?

• 52:52Speaker 03

  No, what'd he say?

• 52:53Speaker 02

  They, they just asked neighbors, cause obviously neighbors and Jaden Daniels were really good friends at LSU. And then they're like, hey, how do you feel about, you know, that guy? He's like, yeah, that guy. I mean, man, I mean, what a winner. What a, what a football, you know, he's going to go out there and compete. And every single time, you know, it's hard to beat that guy, you know, it's, ah, what an amazing guy to play with. And he just like looks up and I'm, you know what I mean? And I'm like, yeah, it's like, of course he's thinking, I wish I'd played the Jaden Daniels instead of Daniel Jones.

• 53:14Speaker 03

  Well, part of it for sure. Also, Washington will be in a ton of primetime games next year. Like if you want to be a, a player that's on a stage, you're going to get a stage with this Washington knocking on wood. I mean, I, you know, obviously we never take anything for granted.

• 53:27Bill Simmons?

  Would you rather be the Giants or the Cowboys next five years?

• 53:31Speaker 03

  Wow, definitely, definitely the Giants at that because I, I think that they are going to continue to prob- Jerry Jones is singular, singularly the most important player in the NFC East because he will continue, it's exactly what Danny said. He doesn't give a shit about winning football games. What he cares about is, is asses in seats and it just gets crazier and crazier. It's phenomenal. I love that guy so much.

• 53:57Speaker 02

  Jerry built the NFL and I think people forget the Cowboys are a side project for a guy's main job is to make $20 billion in revenue a year for the NFL. And then also he's, I mean, one, he's older than Joe Biden, which it seems relevant. And then two, and then to bring this all together, Jerry's a fantasy football owner. Where it's like good owners are like Bob Kraft, hire Belichick out of the way. The Hunt family who just hired Andy Reid got out of the way. Jerry could do that, but instead he wants to tinker with the roster, right? He wants to do all this stuff. So yeah.

• 54:22Speaker 03

  He wants to be on camera. Every week he's talking. What the fuck are you doing on camera?

• 54:29Bill Simmons?

  I think my new favorite is Mark Davis, who after the season, I think will be paying three coaches that aren't coaching his team. That, which might be a record, right? Gruden, McDaniels, and then Antonio Pierce. So have three ex-coaches.

• 54:43Speaker 02

  David Tepper had the record. He was paying.

• 54:45Speaker 03

  Tepper was like, hold my beer.

• 54:47Bill Simmons?

  So he had Rule, he had Frank Reich, this new guy.

• 54:50Speaker 02

  And Ron Rivera, I think Matt Rule took a job at Nebraska. So I think that offset it. But yeah, there was at one point, I mean, the NFL sent a memo to the owners saying, please, we're losing $900 million a year to active coaches. Like basically it was like David Tepper, please stop firing people, but they had to send it to everyone. But it was like, yeah, three going on, four coaches on his payroll at the same time.

• 55:08Bill Simmons?

  Hi Fitz, sorry we kept you from starting your other podcast. Thanks for, thanks for hanging out with us. Uh, great to see you. Think about my Guillotine NBA suggestion. Maybe get that going. Uh, and, uh, and say hi to the fantasy guys for us.

• 55:22Speaker 02

  Thank you for having me. Yeah, we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll get our thoughts together on the Guillotine.

• 55:29Bill Simmons?

  This episode is brought to you by Workday. Guessing is for game shows, not your business, especially when your margin for error is zero. Workday is the enterprise AI platform for HR, finance and IT with a deep understanding of your organization's context and guardrails. So every AI action is permission aware, giving you accuracy 24/7 and the ability to not just get work done, but get it done right. It's a new Workday. This episode is brought to you by TikTok. When you watch a football game, you follow the ball, right? Well, there's a video on TikTok where this guy says to watch the players without the ball, watch the routes and the action away from the play. I'll change how you see the game. And guess what? He's not wrong. That's the thing about discovery on TikTok. One video can change the way you see the game.

• 56:13Bill Simmons?

  You can learn something new or see things in a completely different way. Your next discovery is waiting on TikTok. Visit tiktok.com/discovermore. All right, house is still here. We're going to do some million dollar picks. Went 3-0 last week, won $600,000 or up to $778,000. It was about time some things went right and some things didn't go right last week. We were on the right side of the Rams, which, you know, sweated that one out, but I thought they deserved to win. Cowboys and the over somehow hit last week against the Falcons and then

• 56:46Speaker 03

  50-50.

• 56:47Bill Simmons?

  We hit an Eagles Chiefs tease that we had to sweat out on both ends. Although I will say I love sweating when, when I have Patrick Mahomes and Andy Reid. I still feel like the sweat out was if, if Todd Bowles had gone for two, we were fucked.

• 57:03Speaker 03

  The tease was done.

• 57:04Bill Simmons?

  The tease was done. No matter what happened with the two point, we're done.

• 57:07Speaker 03

  If he had just done the courageous thing that everybody would have celebrated him for, going for, for the win at the end of that game, by going for a two pointer, it would have cooked every tease in America.

• 57:19Bill Simmons?

  It did lead to the coin toss video of. Mahomes calling heads or whatever, somebody, whatever, the Chiefs win and Baker Mayfield kicks his head back because of course the Chiefs are going to win. Of course, on the biggest play of the game, the right tackle is going to take a step back two seconds before the snap starts. It's like the Chiefs, it's just great. It's great to bet on them because you know they're going to get 80% of the calls. Do you believe in Raheem, our guy Raheem? He has that A-side, B-side thing?

• 57:45Speaker 03

  Yes, yes.

• 57:46Bill Simmons?

  And the Chiefs are the most A-side NFL team we've had in a while. Because people would have said, oh, the Patriots got all the calls too. It's like, they, they literally tried to, tried to railroad Tom Brady and suspended him for four games for the most dubious thing ever. The Chiefs get more calls than any football team I can remember since like the 70s Raiders.

• 58:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, nobody wants me to invite you to take another shit on the Lakers, but you just did this. You just talked about how many more free throws the Lakers have than any, of course, there's A-side.

• 58:15Bill Simmons?

  They were shooting 10 more free throw attempts a game than the other team.

• 58:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 58:19Bill Simmons?

  Over a two-week sample size.

• 58:21Speaker 03

  A lot more physical.

• 58:22Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 58:23Speaker 03

  Lakers. Low post Lakers.

• 58:26Bill Simmons?

  Speaking of physical, we're doing another tease. It feels, especially with the, the way the favorites have been performing, it feels like a little, little safer on T Street. Still stopping at the flashing yellows, but I, I feel like I, I just can go straight now. There's no cops on T Street. I could just cruise through. And, uh, Hyfitz in the previous segment mentioned the Eagles against the Cowboys with no Dak. The Eagles are ninth in DVOA, Dallas is 25th. The Eagles have the second, uh, second in the run, their offense. Dallas is 30th against the run, they're 29 yards per play. Lawrence is still out.

• 59:08Bill Simmons?

  Philly's defense is 50 yards per play, fifth against first down, fifth against the run, seventh against pass. They got Dallas Goddard back. This line has kind of stayed at six and a half because people don't trust the Eagles.

• 59:21Speaker 03

  With good reason. The reason for the tease is Sirianni Insurance. We have to buy off all of the moronic things.

• 59:29Bill Simmons?

  Schmuck Insurance.

• 59:30Speaker 03

  It really, it is. It's Sirianni schmuck, schmuck and shit. You can't, I can't say that 10 times fast.

• 59:35Bill Simmons?

  Sirianni Schmuck Insurance.

• 59:37Speaker 03

  It's, it's that, it's that because that dude is a stone cold schmuck. So you gotta have some, some way to get out of it. I love, I mean, the, the Eagles teaser is a lock. You, you don't need to convince me any further on that leg of it.

• 59:51Bill Simmons?

  Well, the best thing about this, oh, Philly's now seven.

• 59:55Speaker 03

  That's great.

• 59:56Bill Simmons?

  The best, the best thing about this is you can get it to a number that Sirianni can't screw up with a dumb two-point conversion. Going for two and he's up, you know, 17 or all the weird shit he does. So we can get them down to six and then.

• 1:00:14Bill Simmons?

  I, I just, to me, the Cowboys are, I said this to Sal on Sunday night, like I just feels like a five and 12, four and 13 team now. And I don't think, I don't think there's any scenario for them to turn it around. I didn't think they were good to begin with. So that's one. And then the other one is Chargers Titans.

• 1:00:31Bill Simmons?

  And I continue to think the Chargers are just severely undervalued and I'm mad. We didn't take them last week against the Browns. We backed off. There were some couple of Chargers injuries. Jameis was hot and it was a home game for Cleveland. There was good defensive stats. I bet it in real life on Sunday, but I'm mad. We didn't have four million dollar picks, but.

• 1:00:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:00:53Bill Simmons?

  House, did you know the Chargers have not given up 21 points yet this season?

• 1:00:57Speaker 03

  I, I did know that. And you know, one big element of that, and it'll feature in some of my plays on the Ringer pregame show on Sunday. Is they are so deliberate with the football. They use up on average, like 31 seconds. They're number one in the league in terms of how much of the play, play clock they use. So they, they, they control the flow of the game, which definitely contributes to that. It's a very good defense. Again, I couldn't name six players on it, but that doesn't matter. It's, it's institutional. It's Harbaugh and the guy that he brought over from Michigan.

• 1:01:36Speaker 03

  And they just played disciplined football. So, I mean, this is the, the seven and a half down to one and a half. Against a Titans team where it seems like Will Levis is gonna play? Is that, is that?

• 1:01:49Bill Simmons?

  Wonderful.

• 1:01:50Speaker 03

  Please, please.

• 1:01:52Bill Simmons?

  They've been crushing teams with bad QBs this year. Points they've given up, 10, 3, 20, 17, 16, 15, 8, and 10. If you're gonna make a case for Tennessee, it would probably start with their defense is pretty good.

• 1:02:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, it is.

• 1:02:06Bill Simmons?

  The good defensive stats of that, I watched them last week. I thought they did a pretty good job with the Pats. They are first on first downs, first against the pass, second against on third down. The Chargers need, some of the stats are just phenomenal. I mean, they're, they're in the top five in just about every relevant category. They're hitting against the run. I really like this Chargers team and I, and I think they're a little better than the good bad team because they have confidence now. They're physical. They're getting some guys back and their receivers have gotten better week after week after week. And you watch them and it's like Johnson, Josh Palmer, McConkey, like they have guys that can actually get first downs and move the chains.

• 1:02:49Speaker 03

  Well, you know what's happening in, in, over that same time continuum, week after week after week? Justin Herbert got healthy. He, I think, I think he really was hurt. I mean, he, he sat out chunks of, of games. Did he miss a full game? I don't remember. Early in the season and his mobility is back and they are taking downfield shots. And you know, kudos to Quentin Johnson for getting it together. They took him in a WR1 position, first round of the draft position. Good for him that it looks like it may yet pay off.

• 1:03:22Bill Simmons?

  I mean, he wasn't even drafted.

• 1:03:25Speaker 03

  In fantasy?

• 1:03:26Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:27Speaker 03

  Why would he be?

• 1:03:28Bill Simmons?

  He wasn't drafted. He wa, he was a first round pick in his second year and people are like, the Chargers have no receivers and I still wouldn't draft this guy.

• 1:03:36Speaker 03

  It felt like he, he was 50 50 to get cut. That's how bad his rookie season was.

• 1:03:41Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, they, uh. They rejuvenated him. So I think Eagles Chargers is about as good of a, I felt about a tease in a while.

• 1:03:51Speaker 03

  I love it so much. I really do.

• 1:03:53Bill Simmons?

  My only fear, my only fear with the Eagles is they have your Washington C words on Thursday.

• 1:03:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:03:59Bill Simmons?

  And we've learned over the years, the game before the game is always a little hairy when you have that big game coming. So that's the only thing I'm worried about at all.

• 1:04:09Speaker 03

  It's a, it's a great observation. The other leg that, that to me got better is the Chiefs at home against Denver, where that line was in the eight and a half, nine range, and now it's down to seven and a half because people are giving so much respect to Sean Payton. I'm not saying that we necessarily should do anything with it here on million dollar picks, but am I going to play a three leg tease featuring those three teams come Sunday? Yes, I am.

• 1:04:36Bill Simmons?

  I looked at that too, and I thought even though the Broncos got killed last week, I, I still feel like they were in that game for an hour and a half. And that end of the first half touchdown just killed it. Once they fell behind 14 against Derrick Henry and Lamar, it's done. But with 17, 10, I felt like they had more of a chance. Something scares me about that game and I can't explain it.

• 1:04:56Speaker 03

  Okay. Fair enough.

• 1:04:58Bill Simmons?

  No, I'm just saying like, I, I'm with you on Sunday. I'll probably, that would be a three team tease instead of a two team tease, but I, I, don't the Broncos, haven't they played the Chiefs well the last couple of years?

• 1:05:10Speaker 03

  Not really.

• 1:05:10Bill Simmons?

  Am I nuts?

• 1:05:11Speaker 03

  Well, they, they're, there might be some moments of close games, but the Chiefs owned the Broncos. There's an incre- I don't have the number handy.

• 1:05:19Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. So they, they split with them last year. They beat them in week eight, 24 to nine. I think that was one of the 12 times that Mahomes' career have been like, what's wrong with the Chiefs? And then, hey, guess what? They're fine. I'm staying away from that one. Here's one that I don't want to stay away from unless you talk me out of it. The new coach theory is back. The Saints have a new coach. They are plus three and a half against the Falcons this week. And in their first meeting, they lost at the buzzer by two. Falcons are banged up. London's hurt. Might play, might not. Pitts is hurt. Might play, might not. Lindstrom's hurt. Jarrett's hurt. He's old, but he's out.

• 1:06:02Bill Simmons?

  I like that they already played and the Saints moved the ball on them. The Atlanta's defense is the worst in the league completion percentage, which is kind of ties in. So they have no pass rush.

• 1:06:13Speaker 03

  That's why, yeah.

• 1:06:14Bill Simmons?

  They're not good at stopping completions.

• 1:06:15Speaker 03

  Right, right.

• 1:06:16Bill Simmons?

  Which are really the only good things the Saints are good at. Now, they traded Lattimore, which makes me nervous because that, that means that's a, they're quitting on the season, the Saints. Their defense is 31st. That was with Lattimore. And yards per play, Atlanta's 7th. I don't know. Do we believe in the new coach theory? It didn't work with the Jets because the Jets ended up not, they lost by three to the Bills and did not cover in a game that we both bet on. So you could say the new coach theory is due, or maybe don't do it with the Saints. But I was, I was taken aback by the, the dialogue from the Saints side about it. It really seemed like they were delighted that Dennis Allen got fired.

• 1:06:57Speaker 03

  Well, I do think that they're delighted that Dennis Allen got fired, but I will confess, I, I am very gun shy when it comes to the Saints team. I personally feel like I had a hand in getting Dennis Allen fired because I bet on the Saints against the Panthers. The, it was my wise wager. All I asked them to do was score 14 points in the first half against the Panthers. They scored exactly 13 points. They lost by, they had a chance to go for two after, after scoring a touchdown where it would have made sense for them to go for two and get to 14. But I, I cannot, after watching Derek Carr, I'm, I'm going to have to try and figure out how to say this politely. What he did to Chris Olave.

• 1:07:39Bill Simmons?

  Cash bar, cash bar Carr?

• 1:07:41Speaker 03

  What, what, what, like the Michael Thomas respond, I worry like, is that, do they believe that in that locker room?

• 1:07:50Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, you're right.

• 1:07:50Speaker 03

  Does Michael Thomas still have sway?

• 1:07:52Bill Simmons?

  I'm, I'm taking him off. We can't do it.

• 1:07:54Speaker 03

  Well, Derek Carr might, might shorten that guy's career. He might be responsible for Chris Olave only playing five years.

• 1:08:03Bill Simmons?

  Well, that pass was, that's the most dangerous pass you can throw in football. I don't think he did it intentionally. I just don't think he's that good at football. The worse the quarterback is, the more the ball sails. It's something that Brady, you know, it's the one thing he'll get mad at as an announcer when the quarterback leads somebody into a collision because he feels like that's your job not to do that.

• 1:08:22Speaker 03

  Right. Exactly. So I'm,

• 1:08:24Bill Simmons?

  All right, we'll take them off.

• 1:08:25Speaker 03

  I'm, they just scare me.

• 1:08:28Bill Simmons?

  That's fine. Um, how about the Steelers plus three against your Washington C words?

• 1:08:35Speaker 03

  So I think it's a 50 50 game because you're gonna go through and look at um, the Steelers defense and it will be true that they have a bunch of very good numbers. And then if you consider who they've played, they really haven't gone up against uh, any offenses with genuine firepower yet.

• 1:08:55Bill Simmons?

  So can I give you the converse on that?

• 1:08:57Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:08:59Bill Simmons?

  I don't, I don't think I use that.

• 1:09:00Speaker 03

  No, you're, you're right.

• 1:09:03Bill Simmons?

  Washington beat the Giants twice. They beat Cleveland, Carolina, Chicago, Cincinnati, and Arizona. This is the first top 10 DVOA defense that they've played?

• 1:09:13Speaker 03

  Hundred percent right.

• 1:09:14Bill Simmons?

  Two in the top 16 of the league?

• 1:09:16Speaker 03

  You're right.

• 1:09:16Bill Simmons?

  Number 11, Chicago, they scored 18. Number 13 Baltimore, they scored 23. And it's very possible your team is seven and four in a week. Cause you got that Philly game on Thursday and it's like, guess what? You would have taken seven and four, but this is a different part of the schedule than they've had to deal with the whole season.

• 1:09:36Speaker 03

  A thousand percent true. And, and part of the calculus for why you would feel comfortable enough taking the Steelers is just Tomlin as an underdog on, on the road against a rookie quarterback. There are all these numbers you could look at over the span of that man's 20 year career where he eats up situations like this and, and he will certainly have that defense mindset wise, like guys, everybody's looking to see this rookie quarterback against you. You, here's your opportunity to shine. So that would be the reason I personally think.

• 1:10:11Bill Simmons?

  There's another reason though, that, that the running backs are healthy and it feels like they can actually run the ball on Washington. Now,

• 1:10:17Speaker 03

  They better.

• 1:10:18Bill Simmons?

  You like this Washington defense though.

• 1:10:19Speaker 03

  I well, I like this Washington defense against Russell Wilson because the Washington defense over the past month has gotten very successful marks in terms of pass rush win rate and they they put pressure. They've been very successful in putting good disruptive pressure on quarterbacks and the Steelers offensive line had been rotating chairs, rotating casts a little bit. I'm not sure if that's settled down, but if Russell Wilson is in any duress at all, then I then I like Washington's chances there. To me, it feels like a turnover or field goal game. It's a it's a game where

• 1:10:58Bill Simmons?

  So let's take Steelers plus three. That sounds great.

• 1:11:00Speaker 03

  That's it's totally fine. I'm not talking you out of it.

• 1:11:05Bill Simmons?

  Cards, Jets. This is the lion of the year. The Cardinals are underdogs at home against the Jets. I've watched football every week this season. The Cardinals are better than the Jets and yet they're on my do not bet list.

• 1:11:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:11:19Bill Simmons?

  Because I don't trust them. I don't know why I don't trust them. They're five and four and they've they've gotten better, not worse as the seasons went along. The Jets lost to the Patriots, played on a Thursday night against Houston that basically had one receiver and can't block. And it felt like the Jets were going to lose until this crazy Garrett Wilson catch that I still don't understand how it was a touchdown. The game flips, the Jets win and it's Halloween. It's stupid. It's a Thursday night and now people are like, oh, the Jets are back. I don't think the Jets are good.

• 1:11:52Speaker 03

  I don't think the Jets are good either, but and and again, to be clear, the Jets are on my do not. I have two teams on my I will not bet on either of these teams. The Jets or the Bears. So there's no scenario in which you're going to be able to get I don't care what the numbers are, what they say. I'm just not betting on those teams.

• 1:12:08Bill Simmons?

  I would have thrown the Jaguars on there as well.

• 1:12:10Speaker 03

  Well, that's fine. They all have the same thing in common, which is dunderhead, nincompoop decision makers, you know, out there guiding the schemes. I want no part of the Jets offensive scheme. Think about all the conversation that we just had with Danny Heifetz and what Nathaniel Hackett did to Breece Hall this, this, this season. The number one pick in fantasy can't get off because the Jets can't get off. They spent all this money on trying to rehabilitate an offensive line. So to me, this Arizona Jets game, just, we don't have to bet on every game. We don't have to bet on that game. I would say, let's not do anything with that game.

• 1:12:51Bill Simmons?

  Counter.

• 1:12:54Bill Simmons?

  So Arizona's won four of their last five. They beat San Francisco, really nice win. I watched it. They got killed by Green Bay. They snuck out that Chargers game that I don't know how they won. I think the Chargers are good. They went against a good defense, beat them. They came back and beat that Miami team. Little resilience there. And then they, they kind of killed Chicago last week. I mean, they, they really gave them problems. And I think what I liked about that game going into this game is Chicago has a shitty offensive line, right? And they just, they were in Caleb's grill the whole time. The Jets offensive line is a mess. I mean, they're not even sure who's playing this weekend. And Rogers has looked

• 1:13:36Bill Simmons?

  old. And I just like it. So I want to do it. I know, I'm taking them off the D N B list.

• 1:13:43Speaker 03

  Well, look, make it the argue pick. You, you, I, I, I would say don't bet it and you're gonna bet it. I won't take Jets. So I mean, I won't take the other side of it. So it's not the argue pick in that respect.

• 1:13:54Bill Simmons?

  Before Drake May got hurt in that Jets game, he was just kind of scrambling around and doing whatever. And the Jets didn't seem, they just, he seemed faster than the Jets, which makes me think Kyler Murray against that Jets defense. I just feel like he'll be able to move around and do things. And what, this Jets team, I don't understand why we haven't written them off yet. I don't get the line. It's insulting. Do you think it's a rat line?

• 1:14:20Speaker 03

  No, I think it's the right line. It's a line based on on priors. I didn't get a chance to sit down and look at the look ahead, but here's the part of what would help your case going against the the Jets. C J Mosley questionable, the cornerback, Michael Carter questionable. Two safeties, both of their safeties questionable, like, you know, if they're not in perfect health, that defense, we've seen that defense be super gettable.

• 1:14:44Bill Simmons?

  I'm taking them. Cards plus one and a half.

• 1:14:51Bill Simmons?

  The Rams are playing the Dolphins and my first instinct was jump on the Rams. And I thought a lot about the Dolphins the last couple of weeks. I watched that whole Dolphins Bills game. I thought they played really well.

• 1:15:03Speaker 03

  They did.

• 1:15:04Bill Simmons?

  Their defense isn't very good, but they can run the ball and control the ball and move the ball and they're hard to play. And this Rams team, like, they were super lucky last week. You know, that that was, I still, if you're a Seattle fan, that was one of the worst losses of the year. You're just like, how the fuck did we lose that game?

• 1:15:22Speaker 03

  Three possessions in the red zone in the second half, one of which turned into six points for the other team. Like that, not only did they, they didn't go scoreless in the red zone, they gave, they gave six points in the other direction.

• 1:15:36Bill Simmons?

  And I think the Dolphins can run the ball in them. So I'm wondering, and you kind of like them too. I'm wondering, do we take the plus one and a half? Do we do an adjusted line with the over? What do we do?

• 1:15:51Speaker 03

  In the first place, Dolphins money line would would be attractive to me. And then if you wanted to do like, do an adjusted line where it's Dolphins minus two or something like that. The important thing to me, and as we handicap this is for sure, what you just sort of outlined, which is the Dolphins have been unlucky and they are such a different team with Tua, but they're, they're defensive.

• 1:16:15Bill Simmons?

  They barely lost Arizona, they barely lost Indianapolis, and last week they really could have beaten Buffalo. And I thought they really played well. I was impressed.

• 1:16:23Speaker 03

  I'm so mad about that Indianapolis loss. They had that game in hand. Zach Siler's back. That's the, that's the key aspect of this to me. They, they, their ability to generate some pressure against the Rams and against Matthew Stafford, it really is dependent on, on Siler being there and he is. So that, that's a key element to me.

• 1:16:45Bill Simmons?

  Do you see points in this game?

• 1:16:48Speaker 03

  Yes, yes, I do.

• 1:16:50Bill Simmons?

  What if I was able to offer you the Dolphins plus four and a half with the over of 42 and a half at minus 115?

• 1:16:58Speaker 03

  Wow, that's just like a standard. I love that. I love that price. It's the Dolphins plus four and a half?

• 1:17:05Bill Simmons?

  Dolphins plus four and a half.

• 1:17:06Speaker 03

  And over 42 and a half?

• 1:17:09Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, in. That's a great one. Great job.

• 1:17:14Bill Simmons?

  Thanks. Um, all right. We're right now in down Dolphins four and a half.

• 1:17:20Bill Simmons?

  Over. I'll tell you another thing.

• 1:17:24Bill Simmons?

  And we say this sometimes with the Rams, depending on who's coming in. The Dolphins have a lot of fans, man. And, and I think there's going to be Dolphin fans. That's a team that's been around since the seventies. They have generations of fans. Some of them live in LA. I know some of them. I think there's going to be Dolphin fans in that game.

• 1:17:45Speaker 03

  It is funny to think about people from Miami flying to Los Angeles. Like it's, it's not, you know,

• 1:17:51Bill Simmons?

  It's like a destination for them?

• 1:17:54Bill Simmons?

  All right. Last one I have for you is the Lions. We're a little afraid of Nico Collins. Right? Cause it seems like he might come back for Houston, might not. And I, I looked at this initially like, oh, no Nico Collins, no Diggs. Like the Lions are going to absolutely kill them. It's in a dome. I think this Lions team is, is great. So there, there's a couple of things we can do with this. You do the Lions money with the under 57 and a half. That's minus 111. So basically like anything, any score higher than 30, 27 beats it. The Lions are favored by three and a half in this. And something scares me about the hook. And I just wonder, maybe you just take, lay the points. Maybe the Lions are that good. Maybe we've hit a point and just bet the Lions every week.

• 1:18:39Speaker 03

  Well, they are 40 and 15 against the spread over the last 55 games. So that's pretty good evidence. You're you're going to make money gambling on the on the Lions. I can only come up with, you know, I don't have any

• 1:19:00Speaker 03

  X's and O's reason to not do it. It is the case for sure that CJ Stroud over his short career thus far has dramatically better splits at home than on the road. It is the case that Houston's defense has been very good on early downs. And the Lions are sort of middle of the pack on on early downs.

• 1:19:26Speaker 03

  I, you know, you, there isn't a lot to do. I think it's just, you know, I like that Detroit money line better than messing around with the points.

• 1:19:36Bill Simmons?

  So Detroit money line is minus 184. I was looking at the Detroit wins the first half. Detroit wins the game, but they don't have that on Fendel right now because I think, oh, there it is. No, they do have it now. That's plus 105 Detroit first half Detroit game. What are your thoughts?

• 1:19:58Bill Simmons?

  Plus 105.

• 1:19:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:20:00Bill Simmons?

  I think I like it.

• 1:20:01Speaker 03

  I kind of like the plus money. We're just asking them to win the, yeah, yeah. Because.

• 1:20:09Bill Simmons?

  We're in on that one.

• 1:20:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:20:10Bill Simmons?

  So here's a couple of things with the with the Lions.

• 1:20:15Bill Simmons?

  Seventh against the run on defense. I think the only way the Texans win this game is they run the ball. They do the Joe Mixon thing, but I feel like the Lions can shut that down. The other thing is the Lions are first in quarterback hurries. Guess who's 32nd offensively? Houston.

• 1:20:34Bill Simmons?

  Their line sucks. Like even the Jets were getting a Stroud. I just feel like the Lions can overrun them. Lions are first in DVOA. They've only scored 23 points once since week two, the Texans. I don't think they're gonna score points.

• 1:20:48Speaker 03

  Well, and I'm looking, I messed up the number. The Lions are awesome on early downs and so is the Houston defense. So that, that, those two are neutralize each other, but Will Anderson might be hurt. And here's the thing that I'm reminded of.

• 1:21:01Bill Simmons?

  Will Anderson got hurt last week. That's right.

• 1:21:02Speaker 03

  Yeah. Here's the thing that tips it. Zedaria Smith, do you think that he will be fired up to come in and make a great first impression? And put pressure on CJ Stroud in this, in this game. They're, it's, it's a, it's an island game, right? And Detroit will want to come out. Yeah, let's do it, man. Whatever you want to do with Detroit.

• 1:21:21Bill Simmons?

  Lions first half, Lions game plus 105. We're doing it.

• 1:21:24Speaker 03

  Great, great.

• 1:21:26Bill Simmons?

  Last but not least, what do you want to do with this Giants blowout Panthers game in Germany? There's so much fun to root for. It'll be fun if they go up like 20 to three.

• 1:21:35Speaker 03

  I don't want to do it. I want to sleep. Well, you're leaving out the blowout that I like the best this week.

• 1:21:41Bill Simmons?

  What is it?

• 1:21:41Speaker 03

  I like another blowout better.

• 1:21:43Bill Simmons?

  What is it?

• 1:21:44Speaker 03

  It's the San Francisco 49ers going into Tampa off of a bye week where Todd Bowles as a head coach is 0-6 going up against teams. This is the week where the injuries for Tampa finally catch up. It's a very, very tough spot for them coming off of that Monday night. And it seems like we keep saying it. Everybody keeps saying it. McCaffrey's going to be back. And it came at exactly the right time. We were not that far off this position last year. With the record for San Francisco going into their bye, right around kind of 500 ish. They came out and they beat the crap out of the Jacksonville J. I think they won like 34 to three. I tried to look it up earlier.

• 1:22:30Speaker 03

  They, they blew the doors off and, and Brock Purdy's nuts is absolutely.

• 1:22:39Speaker 03

  Brock Purdy's nuts.

• 1:22:43Speaker 03

  With this time, with Shanahan's ability to scheme and what they just watched Kansas City be able to do, I think I'm gonna be able to take advantage of all of it. I really, I'm absolutely thrilled to lay the points. Anything under a touchdown for me with the Niners? This is the portion of the season where the Niners get going. We're all like, oh, this is why we had them at the top of the NFC. Here's the version of that team. I love, I love this spot against Tampa this week.

• 1:23:11Bill Simmons?

  The Tampa defensive stats are absolutely abysmal.

• 1:23:17Bill Simmons?

  Offenses are, they're, first of all, they're 31st in first downs, 30th in passing yards, 24th yards per play. And then you flip it the other way, the Niners have some really good defensive stats that I was surprised by. Like they're fifth against the pass, they're second in first downs, things like that. So I like your blowout call. So now I'm wondering, like, how much of a blowout are we thinking? Would you go 14 plus? Would you go 17 plus?

• 1:23:45Speaker 03

  I like 14 plus is in my, is my, in my neck of the woods. Cause you know, Baker is scrappy. I, Baker's been working. I'm so impressed by Baker. He's, him and Kate Otten are good for something. I, I really, my tip, I had to Baker this season.

• 1:24:01Bill Simmons?

  You sound like Collinsworth.

• 1:24:02Speaker 03

  I just realized it.

• 1:24:04Bill Simmons?

  I just, I just love this Baker Mayfield.

• 1:24:07Speaker 03

  He's, he's really, he's such a gamer.

• 1:24:12Speaker 03

  It's so dumb.

• 1:24:13Bill Simmons?

  All right. So we'll do, how about this? Oh my God. Keep your pants on for this one. Niners win by 14 plus. Giants win by 14 plus.

• 1:24:28Bill Simmons?

  On FanDuel, it is over 10 to one.

• 1:24:33Speaker 03

  Well. For the record, I'm going to split those two up in my own betting card. And if we're going to put those two together, it can't be for very much money. It has to be.

• 1:24:45Bill Simmons?

  Could that, could that be a 20K bet at 10 to 1 odds?

• 1:24:48Speaker 03

  Great, yeah.

• 1:24:49Bill Simmons?

  Or we just go separately on both of them, put 100K on each and hope both of them hit.

• 1:24:53Speaker 03

  Let's do, why don't we do both? 20K on the combo, combo platter. And what, what, what'd you say on, on each individually? 100K on each individual?

• 1:25:05Bill Simmons?

  100K on Niners plus 230, 100K on Giants plus 240. I like doing that more and forgetting the parlay.

• 1:25:11Speaker 03

  Okay, okay, that's fun. That's, I like it.

• 1:25:13Bill Simmons?

  All right, only other game I wanted to mention, and we're staying away from it, is the Jaguars against the Vikings with Mac Jones.

• 1:25:23Speaker 03

  No, no.

• 1:25:24Bill Simmons?

  So you could go to, we're not betting this, but you go two ways with this. One is, this is yet another chance to bet against Mac Jones with the great defense that we know Mac Jones, when you're pressuring him, it's a disaster. The other way to think of it is, is there some Mewing theory possibilities with Mac Jones this week? With the money line?

• 1:25:43Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 1:25:44Bill Simmons?

  Is Trevor Lawrence even good? Like, we still don't know. What if Mac Jones comes in and he's good and he actually beats the Vikings?

• 1:25:50Speaker 03

  It is the funniest.

• 1:25:51Bill Simmons?

  I don't think this is gonna happen. I wanted to talk about that.

• 1:25:52Speaker 03

  Let's do it. Let's take.

• 1:25:54Bill Simmons?

  No, we're not doing it. We're not doing anything.

• 1:25:56Speaker 03

  5K.

• 1:25:56Bill Simmons?

  No, we're not doing, we're doing nothing.

• 1:25:58Speaker 03

  Funny. I'm gonna bet $5. I'm telling everybody right now. I'm betting $5 on Jacksonville to win this week. Because that is one of the funniest outcomes of the week. I'm definitely doing it.

• 1:26:08Bill Simmons?

  So right now, they are plus 265 to win out.

• 1:26:13Speaker 03

  Fine, fine.

• 1:26:15Bill Simmons?

  You could do the, Mac Jones, you could do the, uh, over with the money line and that would be plus 568. Do the Mac, Mac lights up Minnesota.

• 1:26:27Speaker 03

  That's a deep fried turkey. That's a, that's a, that's my deep fried turkey special of the week.

• 1:26:32Bill Simmons?

  All right, here we go. It's time. The million dollar picks for week 10. Last week, we won $600,000. We're up 778 for the season. Joe House and I are hot. Uh, House is gonna celebrate these picks with an Arby deep fried turkey sandwich. They're not a sponsor for million dollar picks. We just love Arby's. First tease, the Philadelphia Eagles up to seven against the Dallas Cowboys, who stink, who don't have Dak Prescott, who are headed for four and 13 or five and 12. Kind of like this Eagles team too. There's some great stats of them teasing them with the Chargers. Minus seven and a half against Will Levis and the Titans. We think it's going to be Will Levis,

• 1:27:14Bill Simmons?

  but the Chargers have not given up 21 points yet this season. They have crushed teams with bad QBs. All of these bets are going to be 200K. We're putting 200K on that. House and I really like the Dolphins against the Rams, even though I've been on the Rams all year. I just, the Dolphins can run the ball. They've been super frisky the last three weeks. We're doing an adjusted one. Dolphins plus four and a half with the over 42 and a half in LA. Bunch of Dolphin fans there. You think the Dolphins could win this game outright?

• 1:27:45Speaker 03

  I do. I do. I think that they're, what we saw out of offense against Buffalo was, was, was like very promising. I like them very much in this situation.

• 1:27:54Bill Simmons?

  We bought ourselves some schmuck insurance there because of the possibility of the Dolphins and, and disc jockey, disc jockey McDaniel controlling the whole game. And then in the last six minutes, all of a sudden getting skittish. And then their Stafford going down the field and all of a sudden they lose by three. So we have schmuck insurance with the Dolphins. Plus four and a half, over 42.5 parlay. Next one, Steelers plus three in Washington against House's C words. We just think this is a three point game. We're grabbing the points. No harm done.

• 1:28:26Speaker 03

  That's it. I don't.

• 1:28:26Bill Simmons?

  Washington has not played a top 10 DVOA defense yet, and we like the spot for the Steelers.

• 1:28:31Speaker 03

  I'll tell you what, I'm not rooting against Washington, but the bet makes sense.

• 1:28:35Bill Simmons?

  Three point.

• 1:28:35Speaker 03

  The bet makes sense.

• 1:28:36Bill Simmons?

  Next one, we disagreed on and we're doing it anyway. And then we can argue about it if it doesn't work out. The Cardinals at home, getting one and a half points against the stupid Jets. And this, I'm just offended by this line and I'm taking the Cardinals.

• 1:28:52Speaker 03

  It's the second funniest outcome of the week. Rogers losing to the Cardinals would be tremendous. So that one I will root for. I just can't in good conscience recommend anybody bet on it.

• 1:29:02Bill Simmons?

  I don't think the Jets are good.

• 1:29:05Bill Simmons?

  Lions first half Lions game in Houston is plus 105. Both of them have to hit. And we are now at the point of the season where we're just riding the Lions. We believe in the Lions. I'm not sure when they lose again, and if they lose, it's going to be against a team that's better than Houston. Houston's offensive line can just not carry them in this game, and I don't think they're going to run the ball in Detroit either. You love the Lions. Safest bet for you right now in the league?

• 1:29:31Speaker 03

  Yes. I mean, the math supports it. Their performance supports it. The addition of Zazaria Smith supports it. Their coaching staff supports it. I mean, I tried to speak into existence, the Packers being competitive. That game was was over with a quickness because Jordan Love couldn't move. So, and Jared Goff had two gloves on, and it was perfectly fine. The ball didn't slip one time.

• 1:29:57Bill Simmons?

  And then last but not least, we're putting 100K on the Niners minus 13 and a half adjusted. That's plus 230 because we think Tampa, no disrespect to Tampa. It's been an impressive season, but from a talent, injuries, you're not going to be able to hang in this game, we don't think. And then the Giants in Germany against the Panthers, who there's no way they're winning twice in a row. Minus 13 and a half, plus 240. We're going to put 100K in each of those and try to hit one and hopefully both.

• 1:30:30Speaker 03

  Be awesome. I'll have a Christmas ale for it. They do Christmas ale there?

• 1:30:34Bill Simmons?

  Put 10K in the parlay at plus 1022?

• 1:30:37Speaker 03

  Yes, yes.

• 1:30:38Bill Simmons?

  10K in the parlay at plus 1022 as well. Those are the million dollar picks for week 10. You like these?

• 1:30:47Speaker 03

  I love them.

• 1:30:47Bill Simmons?

  Pretty good batch.

• 1:30:48Speaker 03

  It's so fun. It's time, baby.

• 1:30:51Bill Simmons?

  We're going to take a break, talk NBA really quick.

• 1:30:56Bill Simmons?

  This episode is brought to you by PNC Bank. In today's sports, everyone is constantly trying to outdo each other. Trick formations, infield shifts, constant rotation changes. Yet it's proven time and time again that strong fundamentals are the thing that will lead you to victory. Banking, no different. While everyone else tries to outdo each other, PNC Bank just keeps going right down the middle with steady, calculated money moves and the financial wins just keep coming. PNC Bank, brilliantly boring since 1865, brilliantly boring since 1865 is a registered mark of the PNC Financial Services Group, Incorporated. PNC Bank, National Association, Member, FTIC. This episode is brought to you by PayPal.

• 1:31:39Bill Simmons?

  The holiday rush is coming and you can get ahead of it with PayPal. Shop your favorite online stores with PayPal this season like eBay for collectibles, Fanatics for team gear, Walmart for tech. Check out the flexibility to pay now or pay later and split your payments with Pay in four with no interest, no late fees. Shop now with PayPal. Paying for subject to approval. Learn more at paypal.com/payingfor. PayPal, Inc., NMLS 910457.

• 1:32:10Bill Simmons?

  All right, House, we did this last week. People liked it, so we're doing it again. Just like a little, little nightcap NBA, NBA dialogue. You watched Warriors Celtics last night?

• 1:32:19Speaker 03

  The whole thing from the opening tip to the end.

• 1:32:21Bill Simmons?

  What did you make of it?

• 1:32:23Speaker 03

  Um, I was so impressed with the physicality of Golden State's defense. It's the, it is by far the first time I've seen a Golden State team, really since the 2017, 18, you know, right up into the, the finals where everybody got hurt in 2019 on the Golden State team where they, their defensive metrics were always super high over that stint. This, this, they have like a bunch of wing dudes who will go get up into your chest and they forced, they, they forced double digit turnovers. The Celtics weren't ready for it and obviously Jalen Brown wasn't there and I know.

• 1:33:05Speaker 03

  But you know, the Celtics still with the pedigree with their preparation, you expect them especially at home. I think they had 10 turnovers by halftime just because of how aggressive Golden State's defense was. I was still mad.

• 1:33:20Bill Simmons?

  They were blitzing, they were blitzing the shit out of Tatum, which is what you kind of have to do against the Celtics when Jaylen Brown's not playing. I know it's smart.

• 1:33:27Speaker 03

  I like the narrative of, of Tatum getting off to get his revenge, but Steve Kerr and, and Steph Curry were like, eh, good job. Good job, Jason Tatum. Patted them on the head.

• 1:33:40Bill Simmons?

  It was a winnable, it was a totally winnable game for the Celtics and the difference is they actually didn't get stops down the stretch where they, they still missed Porzingis's rim protection, which is why Kade is playing so much, but then not also having Jalen and you know, you're losing two of your top five guys.

• 1:33:57Speaker 03

  Your guy Kade, not terrible.

• 1:33:58Bill Simmons?

  He's not terrible, but in the last four minutes, what happened, happened, which was Curry's just trying to get him in high screens to try to attack him. But the, I, I, when I was doing my power pull on Tuesday, I really had trouble ranking the Warriors because I felt like they might be a top five team and I, I wasn't ready to go there yet because it was too early, but defensively they have it. And I think they already have an identity, which I think is really hard to achieve this early in the season when we, they added a bunch of new dudes, but I, I feel like they know who they are already.

• 1:34:32Speaker 03

  They're getting a lot out of Heald and Wiggins. They're getting a lot.

• 1:34:36Bill Simmons?

  Well, at least Wiggins has done it before. Heald hasn't done it in three years.

• 1:34:40Speaker 03

  Right. Right. And, and Wiggins didn't exactly do it in the past year and a half. I mean, Wiggins took off half of a, a season, a third of a season.

• 1:34:48Bill Simmons?

  No, he did. Well, I'll say this with Heald. He's always been on the, in the right situations, really good at just chucking the ball, right? So they're, they're just like, we know who you are, buddy Heald. You're just going to do all these Klay Thompson plays. And what's interesting is Klay was so famous and it was so, you were always, your eye was always drawn to him. You always knew where he was in the court, but he can kind of like slide in and out like that. The key play of that game, they're up four. Curry, Curry basically collapses the defense and Tatum loses Heald for like a split second and he'll just kind of sneaks off to the side and has this wide open three to clinch the game. I don't think that happens with Klay.

• 1:35:28Speaker 03

  Well, part of it also is healed gets rid of the ball effing.

• 1:35:31Bill Simmons?

  Immediately.

• 1:35:33Speaker 03

  Like, oh, my, I it felt very irrational confidence, except for he is a 40, you know, plus percent three point shooter over his career. And he's what is he now? He's just under 50% so far this season, isn't he? Is he having a great start to the season?

• 1:35:48Bill Simmons?

  I mean, he's having one of the great crazy seasons anyone's had. He's

• 1:35:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, we're

• 1:35:53Bill Simmons?

  22 points a game through 20. Yeah, he's eight games in, but I think the Warriors thing is real. I like the way Draymond's playing too. I think this is he's, you know, hasn't caused any drama. We'll see if that continues, but

• 1:36:08Speaker 03

  He was a role player last night.

• 1:36:09Bill Simmons?

  He still looks good. He's still they run stuff through him. He always knows where Curry is. I like watching him. I think that the ball movement's great and they can get stops. So I'm taking them seriously. And guess what? So is so is Vegas.

• 1:36:24Speaker 03

  Well, Fendel had them all the way up to 49 and a half. They their their win total moved all the way up there. And I said on the Ringer Gambling Show.

• 1:36:31Bill Simmons?

  It's up to 50 and a half now.

• 1:36:32Speaker 03

  Oh, well, 49 and a half isn't under and 50 and a half isn't under because this thing works as long as Steph Curry is upright and healthy and it's still asking a lot, a lot of Buddy Heald and Wiggins. Like, those guys have to be able to do it for a full season. It's been a minute since we've seen that.

• 1:36:54Bill Simmons?

  The value was before the year when it was 43 and a half. For the division, they are plus 195. And Phoenix is plus 155. I was going through some of the division stuff today because I'm in Boston. I actually made a bet. I did Celtics, OKC, and Cleveland.

• 1:37:10Speaker 03

  Fun.

• 1:37:11Bill Simmons?

  Which which was plus 152 as a division parlay.

• 1:37:14Speaker 03

  You didn't send that to me. You know, I'm I'm allowed to bet here in Washington, D.C.

• 1:37:17Bill Simmons?

  I was gonna break the news to you right here.

• 1:37:18Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:37:19Bill Simmons?

  Most shocking division bet is the Southeast. Miami is minus 105 and Orlando is plus 115. I don't see the Miami thing at all. I said it Tuesday. They lost another dumb game yesterday. They, to me, they, there's some sort of trade waiting to happen and I know Palo's out and I know Orlando's gonna have trouble scoring, but still defensively, they're so good. You know, their over under is down to 42 and a half. I'm actually, I'm buying Orlando stock. I don't feel like their season's in a tank by any means.

• 1:37:47Speaker 03

  I'd rather have Atlanta at whatever number they're at than Miami to win that division. Well, yeah, well, I mean, because of the, the potential upside, I think the upside for Atlanta is still there. There is no upside from Miami. They're, they're, they're in, uh, the, what is it? It's not downside, they're in hold side. It's neutral side.

• 1:38:08Bill Simmons?

  They're in no side.

• 1:38:09Speaker 03

  They're in nowhere side.

• 1:38:10Bill Simmons?

  Atlanta is 12 to one for that division.

• 1:38:12Speaker 03

  That's worth.

• 1:38:13Bill Simmons?

  But they've had a bunch of injuries already.

• 1:38:14Speaker 03

  Right, right. I mean, we're eight games in.

• 1:38:17Bill Simmons?

  I really like that team. Conference odds, the only ones that jumped out to me that seemed different and still not adjusted enough. Where Cleveland's still nine to one for the conference.

• 1:38:28Speaker 03

  Which goes. Go ahead. No issue. That's a hedge.

• 1:38:33Bill Simmons?

  That's like, let's say they make the Eastern finals and they're playing the Celtics. That line's not gonna be Cleveland plus 900.

• 1:38:39Speaker 03

  No, no, it's a great hedge ticket to have if that finals comes to pass, like Eastern Conference Finals comes to pass.

• 1:38:45Bill Simmons?

  I thought it was gonna be like five to one and then Golden State is 15 to one in the West.

• 1:38:49Speaker 03

  I won't do that.

• 1:38:51Bill Simmons?

  I will say they would match up with OKC pretty nicely in the series. They have the same kind of like depth and athleticism. I also think they have a trade to make.

• 1:38:59Speaker 03

  They do not have the same kind of depth as Oklahoma City. If they have a, if there's a trade, then, then maybe I'll consider it.

• 1:39:05Bill Simmons?

  Ten guys. No, OKC is the best team in the West. I'm just saying they, they could at least have a puncher's chance of

• 1:39:12Speaker 03

  I'm not, I'm not gambling on Buddy Heald and, and Andrew Wiggins. I'm not doing it.

• 1:39:17Bill Simmons?

  Boston, OKC is a final, is still plus 650. Uh, MVP odds, which I'm not allowed to bet on. I always feel like I have to say that, but the, the one that stuck out to me was Durant is still 19 to one. And if you watch these crunch times, he's been the best guy in crunch time in the league.

• 1:39:34Speaker 03

  Keeps doing it.

• 1:39:35Bill Simmons?

  But that Suns team's gonna potentially be a one or a two seed. I was just surprised. I thought his odds would be better. Curry's 150 to one. Which seems too high too. I wouldn't bet it, but uh, the rookie of the year, Reese Schea is plus 350. Edie's plus 350 and then your two guys are the next two guys. Bub Carrington plus 550 and Sar is plus 650. The fuck?

• 1:39:57Speaker 03

  Well, here's the thing. Washington, those guys are starting. They're playing. They're getting minutes. I'm gonna lose my Bazellus bet because Chicago is playing too hard. They're trying to win. They're not letting that kid get the time that I thought that he was gonna get.

• 1:40:11Bill Simmons?

  And meanwhile, all your kids are playing.

• 1:40:13Speaker 03

  They sure are.

• 1:40:14Bill Simmons?

  I wouldn't bet on any of those. Rookie of the year is like, uh, you just love gambling if you're betting on that this year. So, defensive player of the year, Chet's at plus 290, which I thought was notable because Wemby's even odds now, his odds have dropped, but Chet's been awesome as a rim protector. Anchor of that defense. So I just thought those odds seemed high to me.

• 1:40:34Speaker 03

  Well, Wemby at, what did he start off? Wasn't he minus?

• 1:40:38Bill Simmons?

  Oh yeah, he was minus.

• 1:40:39Speaker 03

  Yeah. So even odds, but it's probably like, you know, now we're in the territory of a good price for Wemby.

• 1:40:45Bill Simmons?

  You know, Jacoby, our friend Jacoby's on the mismatch now at Verno.

• 1:40:49Speaker 03

  Beloved, beloved.

• 1:40:50Bill Simmons?

  It's been a very entertaining podcast, but he's, he's zagging hard against Wemba Yama.

• 1:40:57Bill Simmons?

  As like, we're, we're giving this guy too many kudos. Where are the results? Why do they play him like a point guard? He's doing all this stuff. It's good. It's a good bit.

• 1:41:07Speaker 03

  I love Jacoby so much.

• 1:41:09Bill Simmons?

  Victor Lusban Yama.

• 1:41:10Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 1:41:12Speaker 03

  Get it on the shirt. I'll wear it.

• 1:41:16Bill Simmons?

  But uh, but he is basically saying we've, his, Jacoby's theory is we've given him too much too soon. He's like the, the favorite kid who the parents are just giving him everything and telling him how great he is. And Jacoby said, he's basically like homeschooled. He's like a homeschooled kid that everybody's telling him how great he is. And he's had no adversity yet and there's no repercussions for poor play down the stretch. I, listen, I'm just saying I was enjoying the bit.

• 1:41:42Speaker 03

  It's a great fit and I'm I'm here for it and I will wear a shirt.

• 1:41:46Bill Simmons?

  A loose Benyama.

• 1:41:47Speaker 03

  A loose Benyama, yeah.

• 1:41:48Bill Simmons?

  Wemby doesn't seem any better than last year because they won't put him in the fucking paint ever.

• 1:41:52Speaker 03

  They're eight games in.

• 1:41:54Bill Simmons?

  Closer to the rim.

• 1:41:55Speaker 03

  No, let's let him be. Let's let him. Did you watch the Olympics?

• 1:41:59Bill Simmons?

  Fucking shoot 25 footers. He's not a good three point shooter.

• 1:42:01Speaker 03

  He was good in the Olympics. Was he?

• 1:42:03Bill Simmons?

  He was because he was near the rim.

• 1:42:04Speaker 03

  So let the kid, let the kid just get, you know, we were not out there to win any awards the first 10 games of the F-ing season.

• 1:42:11Bill Simmons?

  There's no pressure on me. This is Jacoby's bid. These are not my opinions.

• 1:42:17Bill Simmons?

  Coach of the year, Kenny Atkinson is plus 340 and Kerr is 6 to 1. Those were the teams that jumped out.

• 1:42:21Speaker 03

  Great.

• 1:42:22Bill Simmons?

  All right. The over under is quick. Celtics and OKC up to 59 and a half. Cleveland's 53 and a half now. Golden State's 50 and a half, as we mentioned. The Lakers are holding firm at 45 and a half. I don't know if you saw yesterday, but we've, we've already entered the, it's all D'Angelo Russell's fault. Part of the season, which is November 7th. I didn't think it was gonna be, yeah, I didn't think it was gonna be until Thanksgiving. I was disappointed. I, I had it all ready for Thanksgiving week and Turkey and.

• 1:42:49Speaker 03

  When we did over unders, I hated the 42 and a half because 43 wins is so few. 43 and 39. With those two guys on the team, I am gonna buy some under 45 and a half now. I'm gonna go ahead and do it. I, I mean, because I'm gonna, I feel like we're gonna lose the 42 and a half, but so because they're gonna win 43 or 44 or 45, which is fine, but not 46. I mean, that's really the wager and it's kind of dumb, but that's what I think.

• 1:43:19Bill Simmons?

  You take Davis out of that lineup and it's a layup line.

• 1:43:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, is exactly right.

• 1:43:23Bill Simmons?

  I mean, they have just negative defenders all over the place and the three point shooting is not awesome and that team's a mess.

• 1:43:30Speaker 03

  There's a trade still to happen.

• 1:43:34Bill Simmons?

  Nets are up to 21 and a half.

• 1:43:38Bill Simmons?

  The ones that have dropped. The Hawks are down to 32 and a half, which I thought was fascinating. Utah's down to 22 and a half.

• 1:43:46Speaker 03

  The Hawks continue to be one of the worst against the spread teams. Like, we thought, oh, that was just last year's aberration. It's still the same. God damn it.

• 1:43:54Bill Simmons?

  New Orleans is 40 and a half. Orlando is 42 and a half. And then Milwaukee and Philly are down to 45 and a half each. And now Maxey's out.

• 1:44:01Speaker 03

  I don't know what to do about Philly. I'm taking the L on our season over under thing. But how do you bet Philly now? What's, what's the, the angle? Don't do anything?

• 1:44:12Bill Simmons?

  DeBundo texted me today asking if Philly is now the year from hell team. And I texted him back. I think that was the case two days ago, even before the Maxey thing.

• 1:44:23Speaker 03

  Wow. All of this will be so far in the rearview mirror. If they arrives come like the second week of March, third week of March, and those three guys are healthy and they're, they're going to be in the play in, right? They're going to be like the seven, eight seed, which will be fine. They'll win. And then they're going to be an unbelievable matchup against Boston or Cleveland.

• 1:44:50Bill Simmons?

  Oh.

• 1:44:50Speaker 03

  Or the Knicks in the first round. I, Boston has got their number, but Cleveland or the Knicks in the first round against Philly? I mean, we just had it. We had the, the Knicks Philly in the first round this, this most recent year.

• 1:45:04Bill Simmons?

  Philly under 45 and a half, minus 120 on Fendel.

• 1:45:07Speaker 03

  I got it. I mean, I got, I'm going to have to do it. I have to do it. I have to buy out of my position.

• 1:45:12Bill Simmons?

  And then Milwaukee also 45 and a half, which seems.

• 1:45:15Speaker 03

  Still high.

• 1:45:16Bill Simmons?

  Though Giannis will make some sort of run at some point. Yeah.

• 1:45:20Speaker 03

  You mean a run to another team? You finally believed, got me believing that.

• 1:45:26Bill Simmons?

  FanDuel has the Celtics to record 70-plus wins in 24 or 25. This is, I think, a Boston-only bet, 17 to 1. I don't see it with the brown out, Porzingis. OKC, you could talk me into. Even last night, that Denver game, I don't know if you saw it, but-

• 1:45:41Speaker 03

  I did.

• 1:45:41Bill Simmons?

  Denver basically had the game and then OKC just turned into a bunch of maniacs and cut it to one. And Caruso was running around like he was like a rabid pit bull, just like disrupting absolutely everything. And then all of a sudden, they had a chance to win. I haven't loved the possession. I thought SGA waited too long and then got this like weird lefty scoop shot.

• 1:46:01Speaker 03

  But Watson came over. It was a nice block by the Watson kid.

• 1:46:05Bill Simmons?

  It was.

• 1:46:05Speaker 03

  But it took extraordinary effort by Denver. It took a throwback Westbrook game.

• 1:46:13Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, to almost blow the game. Yeah. Well, to take the lead, then blow the game. Yeah, they got a 29, 6 and 6 from Westbrook. Okay, so we have to turn in Ringer 100. And I just wanted to go over the top 25 with you and then we'll go. This is what I have. I sent it to you in advance. And I like this list. We take this list seriously. It's not like the ESPN list. We actually like put real thought into the rankings. So I have Jokic 1, Doncic 2, and Giannis 3.

• 1:46:45Bill Simmons?

  We're good at this point, right?

• 1:46:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, yes, yes.

• 1:46:49Bill Simmons?

  SGA 4?

• 1:46:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:46:52Bill Simmons?

  Still good.

• 1:46:53Speaker 03

  Still good.

• 1:46:54Bill Simmons?

  Tatum has to be 5. I don't care what happened in the Olympics. The shit that that guy does night to night as a point forward in that team, his defensive stuff, his rebounding, the fact that he's the anchor of a team that won the title and is a 65, 66-win team potentially. I don't know how he's not 5th.

• 1:47:13Speaker 03

  I don't, I'm not arguing with you. It's fine.

• 1:47:16Bill Simmons?

  Curry 6?

• 1:47:18Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 1:47:20Bill Simmons?

  Durant 7?

• 1:47:23Speaker 03

  So here's the thing that I just want to make sure that we we talked through having both those guys ahead of Anthony Edwards.

• 1:47:31Bill Simmons?

  Yep.

• 1:47:31Speaker 03

  Who is, I think, still, even with the, you know, the slowish start for Minnesota, isn't he still the best two-way player in the game?

• 1:47:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, him and Giannis, right?

• 1:47:46Bill Simmons?

  So I have Edwards eighth, and I have Jalen Brunson ninth, and I have Anthony Davis tenth, and Edwards was the hardest one to figure out. But I think, to me, it comes down to Durant and Curry have the resume that Edwards is still building, and I just wasn't ready to have him jump those guys yet.

• 1:48:04Speaker 03

  You know what's funny is, and I'm not accusing you of this, but in my mind's eye, having just watched the Olympics and watching them be the big brothers to him, he was the little brother on that team, and his role was vital, his contribution was tremendous. But watching those two guys, when it was night-night time, it was, you know, Curry especially, I'm not gonna quibble with it. I'm not gonna quibble. I'm not gonna quibble.

• 1:48:34Bill Simmons?

  Jalen Brunson nine, Davis 10. I thought what was interesting about this part of the exercise, that's clearly the top 10.

• 1:48:41Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:48:42Bill Simmons?

  And you could quibble about, oh, should, could Tatum be switched with Durant? You could go through and you could fight me on any of that stuff.

• 1:48:49Speaker 03

  It's fine. Yeah.

• 1:48:50Bill Simmons?

  I think that has to be the top 10. I, like, I have Mitchell 11 and Booker 12, and I don't think they, they're sniffing that top 10.

• 1:48:58Speaker 03

  Not, not on my list. I like both of them. They're not in the top 10.

• 1:49:04Bill Simmons?

  All right, I have Palo 13, I have Jalen 14, and I have LeBron 15.

• 1:49:10Speaker 03

  Okay. Pretty incredible.

• 1:49:15Bill Simmons?

  Jalen versus Palo. Palo, I'm not gonna ding him because he's hurt. He got an injury. He'll be back. He'll be fine. But I just think for what we were watching him do with Orlando, it's a tiny step higher than what Jalen can do. But Jalen has to be a top 15 guy for me at this point.

• 1:49:32Speaker 03

  He's the finals MVP. I would say so. Yeah.

• 1:49:36Bill Simmons?

  Then, uh, and LeBron, it's like, you're 22.

• 1:49:40Speaker 03

  It's the, it's the best. He's the coolest.

• 1:49:43Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I don't, you could, you could tell me he should be five spots lower.

• 1:49:47Speaker 03

  Nah.

• 1:49:49Bill Simmons?

  It seems right. 15 seems right for him because he could still do what he did last night. He put up 39.

• 1:49:54Speaker 03

  I want to say it respectfully, but the guys like right behind him in this list, not putting bitch ass. I'm, I won't say any names. Ahead of LeBron, come on.

• 1:50:05Bill Simmons?

  So I have, this is another interesting cluster. 16, 17, 18, Wemba Yama, Sabonis, Atabio. And Wemba Yama, because of the defense and all these on off stats with just how destructive he is defensively. Sabonis, I think has to be in the top 20 for what he's doing night to night. Atabio was the one where I was like, almost ready to shove him out of the top 20. I don't think he's looked good this year.

• 1:50:29Speaker 03

  I have a super hard time with him.

• 1:50:30Bill Simmons?

  Trying to give him the benefit of the doubt, right?

• 1:50:32Speaker 03

  Well, because he's earned it and because his defensive metrics remain, I mean, I don't know what they are through these first seven or eight games, but like, the underrated, quiet part of his game, how he inflicts his will on games. It doesn't show through box score wise. It doesn't even really show through when you're sitting and watching, except for that he tilts the floor defensively for them. That's how they end up winning mid 40s. I don't know, man. Who, who, like the names you have behind him, don't deserve to be ahead of him, in my humble opinion.

• 1:51:03Bill Simmons?

  Well, I have Towns six spots behind him and he kicked his ass last week, you know?

• 1:51:07Speaker 03

  Okay, okay.

• 1:51:08Bill Simmons?

  I'll keep him at 18.

• 1:51:09Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:51:10Bill Simmons?

  But then I have a bunch of guards. Fox 19, John Moran 20, Maxey 21, and Kyrie 22. I think Kyrie has been a professional now for two years and, you know, he's 23 to 26 a game and makes 40% of his threes and you could go to it at the end of the games. I, I, you gotta hand it to him.

• 1:51:31Speaker 03

  The one that I think is going to make a leap and make us really work hard is Tyrese. Whenever he comes back from this hamstring injury because he is sick. What a, what a, I mean, speaking of guys with two-way potential.

• 1:51:45Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, you put Maxey, Morant and Fox, and that's a nice little battle for, out of those three guys. Who would you rather have? Jalen Williams at 23. Karl-Anthony Towns up to 24. I've been really impressed with him on the Knicks.

• 1:52:01Speaker 03

  On the one hand, it shouldn't surprise us that it's working, except for on the other hand,

• 1:52:09Bill Simmons?

  But you know what the revelation has been? And it's not a revelation because we've seen him do it, but he's kind of, this is the position he should be. Is a stretch five on a team like this, not playing with Rudy Gobert, even though the Rudy Gobert thing worked and they almost made the finals. But I just, I love what I've seen with him in Brunson.

• 1:52:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, that's the, you got to the Brunson part. The Brunson part is the part to say out loud. Yeah, because he's playing with the top three point guard, point guard, real point guard.

• 1:52:39Bill Simmons?

  Chet 25. I think he's a top 25 guy now.

• 1:52:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, you're not going to hear me argue to the contrary. He came out on fire with a commitment to the defensive end. That was the project for the summer. When they, when they, when they broke, you know, it's like, Chet, here's what we want you to do this summer. A, keep eating, go to, go to Arby's once a week. But B, here's, we want to see some rim protect. We want to see those rotations. So could you work on that? And he showed up, he's like, hey, I'm here, I'm doing my rotations. Watch me coach.

• 1:53:16Bill Simmons?

  Chet, eat this deep fried turkey from, turkey sandwich from Arby's. So after that, then it's another drop off and we could argue, and I'm not going to go through everybody. But that's, you go into this Jimmy Butler, Halliburton, Embiid. No idea where to put him anymore. I have no idea how many games he's playing. James Harden.

• 1:53:35Speaker 03

  Good job by him. Good job by Harden.

• 1:53:37Bill Simmons?

  Marketing Zion, Paul George, like then it gets complicated, but I do think that's the top 25 in some order.

• 1:53:44Speaker 03

  I love it. It's great. When do we get to do this again?

• 1:53:46Bill Simmons?

  Notes on this?

• 1:53:47Speaker 03

  No, because it's so early and we're just sort of like trying to be measured, trying to have a little bit of a proper reaction. I like that you gave some extra credit to the OGs because of how they gave, gave another gold medal to America, like that aspect of it. But this is, you know, it's, it's constantly evolving. It's constantly a work in progress and it's going to be fun to like, when we do this again in a month, what's it going to look like? Like who are the most likely to drop out? Who's most likely to jump in?

• 1:54:20Bill Simmons?

  So the big storylines coming out of this exercise is that I think the top 10 is unassailable now, at least for right now. That's we have a top 10. Jokic, Doncic, Giannis, SGA, Tatum, Curry, Durant, Edwards, Brunson, Davis. Those are the 10 best guys in the league right now. And then I think Towns and Holmgren moving in the top 25 is significant.

• 1:54:42Speaker 03

  Great.

• 1:54:43Bill Simmons?

  I would have had the, I had those guys in the 30s this summer. And then Wemba Yama, who I had 10 heading into the season, dropping to 16. Not nothing either. So.

• 1:54:52Speaker 03

  Well, that's Jacoby.

• 1:54:53Bill Simmons?

  We'll see. Maybe Jacoby is going to, Jacoby's going to be a Skip Bayless. He's just going to start every show with the lose Ben Yama attack.

• 1:55:02Speaker 03

  Jacoby Bayless.

• 1:55:04Bill Simmons?

  House, thanks for sticking with us for two hours. I had a good time.

• 1:55:07Speaker 03

  Always the best time. Thanks, buddy.

• 1:55:09Bill Simmons?

  All right. Good luck, Amlin.

• 1:55:12Bill Simmons?

  All right. That's it for the podcast. Thanks to Steve Seruti and Kyle Crichton for producing as always. Thanks to Joe House and Danny Heifetz. And I will return on this podcast on Sunday Night with Cousin Sal. You can watch us on YouTube as well on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. Don't forget about our new Ringer special section within FanDuel's NFL page as well. If you want some last minute bets for the weekend. Try to enjoy the weekend. Hang in there. I'll see you on Sunday night.

• 1:56:06Bill Simmons?

  Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas and affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in DC. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-887-897777 or visit ccpg.org/chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplineMA.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24/7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8HOPENY or text HOPENY in New York. This episode is brought to you by Whole Foods Market. Get everything you need to win Thanksgiving at Whole Foods Market. We're talking seasonal favorites from the bakery, easy weeknight

• 1:56:49Bill Simmons?

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• 1:57:10Speaker 04

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