Jonquel Jones WNBA Finals MVP and 2024 Champion on transcending the game, black-lesbian athlete overcoming issues on and off court, talks Cailtin Clark, Sabrina Ionescu & NY Liberty teammates

"Get back on the phone with Nike and you tell them next year, I'm bout to win MVP, I'm bout to take over the league, and if they don't re-sign me they're gonna look stupid." Jonquel Jones WNBA champion, NY Liberty Champion Tap in for this week's Friday episode of the Pivot in partnership with Fanatics for a feel-good conversation of sports, triumph and transcension that you don't want to miss. Ryan, Fred, and Channing host the one and only Jonquel Jones, 2024 WNBA Finals MVP and newly crowned champion with the New York Liberty. Fresh off a nail-biting overtime win against the Minnesota Lynx, Jonquel talks with us about what it means to finally reach the top after years of grit and grind. She takes us behind the scenes of her incredible journey from being a Bahamas native to becoming one of the WNBA’s fiercest players, sharing how she's faced down defeat, overcome obstacles on and off the court, and stayed focused on the ultimate dream: a championship title. Jonquel opens up on how the WNBA has transformed in recent years, from deep storytelling to the skyrocketing fan engagement that’s brought new life to the league. After 8 years in the league, JJ's experienced the evolution first hand, and gets candid about the struggles she and other players used to face, but now more than ever, people are tuning in to watch elite female athletes do what they do best. Beyond the stats and highlights, Jonquel is passionate about creating real change for the future of the game, hoping that one day players won’t have to go overseas to make a living like she has to, and can thrive right here in the United States. Off the court, Jonquel is a leader through handling tough issues with humor and humility. JJ reflects on her journey of self-discovery, from embracing her authentic self as a proud Black-Lesbian woman to realizing her power as a role model for young players. She shares a series of pivotal and emotional moments, like standing courtside before the Finals game and soaking in the reality of the record-breaking crowd of 18,090 she was playing in front of-- memories that will always remind her just how far she's come. And for sports fans, she dives into all her unfiltered thoughts on the WNBA- the good, the bad, and the ugly. From new talent like Caitlin Clark, the lack of platforms for players to tell their stories and get their flowers, and of course the future of women’s sports as a whole. JJ speaks honestly on how much she respects Caitlin's approach to the game, the women who play it and defends Caitlin specifically vs the amount of pressure she bears while trying to be herself too. Jones goes on to share what it truly means to live your truth in a world that doesn’t always understand. This episode is packed with honesty, inspiration, and the kind of wisdom only an MVP can bring! Tap in now, and be sure to subscribe to The Pivot Podcast. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Good times mean competitions between you and your friends. Like seeing who can throw some pigskin the farthest, or rush the field the fastest. Winner gets an ultra. Because it's not just a superior light beer, it's also giving fans superior access to their favorite sporting events. Superior is worth playing for. Visit michelobultra.com/superioraccess to enter. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2026 Anheuser Busch InBev Michelob Ultra Beer, St. Louis, Missouri.

• 0:30Fred Taylor?

  Chan, if I had to rank us, just the three of us right now,

• 0:35Channing Crowder?

  And what?

• 0:35Fred Taylor?

  And our next guest?

• 0:37Channing Crowder?

  And basketball?

• 0:37Fred Taylor?

  And hoop? She obviously get number one.

• 0:40Channing Crowder?

  Yeah, I'm two for sure. I'm two, no, I'm two for sure.

• 0:44Fred Taylor?

  I'm embodying you.

• 0:45Speaker 03

  How you doing?

• 0:46Channing Crowder?

  Good, good to see you. I'm two for sure.

• 0:48Fred Taylor?

  I'm embodying you, dawg. I am embodying you, man. What's happening?

• 0:52Channing Crowder?

  But the most accomplished? Yeah, she the most accomplished for sure.

• 0:57Fred Taylor?

  He tried to cut the conversation. We ranking the hoop skills. You dead last.

• 1:01Speaker 03

  Man, you can't hoop at all?

• 1:03Channing Crowder?

  No.

• 1:03Speaker 03

  No skills?

• 1:04Channing Crowder?

  Do that, yeah, yeah. I tried to run track. But then I had a sexual encounter before the track meet. Couldn't finish the 400.

• 1:13Channing Crowder?

  And so my coach kicked me off. So I just played football my whole life.

• 1:17Speaker 03

  You know he can't hoop when he goes straight to track and field. He ain't even say nothing about basketball.

• 1:22Fred Taylor?

  Closest thing to basketball is Kenny Smith knees. That's the closest, that's the closest he got.

• 1:27Channing Crowder?

  My knees touch. They touch a little bit. Hey, you ready to the league, dawg?

• 1:32Speaker 03

  That's what I'm saying.

• 1:33Channing Crowder?

  They did what they needed to do, Chan. I tell you, he made me some money. He million dollar knees. Y'all leave me alone. Million dollar knees.

• 2:02Ryan Clark?

  Taquell Jones, welcome to the show. Very excited to have you here. Congratulations on the championship.

• 2:07Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 2:08Ryan Clark?

  It's been really cool since being named Finals MVP for more people to start telling your story. So, we're very grateful you decided to tell it with us. Channing Crowder, Fred Taylor, Ryan Clark. Pivot, a part of Fanatics, Pivot fam, thank you for pivoting with us. I'm gonna try to keep this all straight because it's a lot.

• 2:26Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 2:26Ryan Clark?

  Right?

• 2:26Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:27Ryan Clark?

  Sixth Woman of the Year, Most Improved Player, All-Star, WNBA League MVP, Commissioners Cup MVP, Finals MVP, and WNBA World Champion. Right, so if I read all that, right, if I see that, the first thing I think is this has to be one of the most marketable women in hoops. And then I go through all the people to WNBA push, and JJ is not one of those people. Why do you think that is?

• 3:04Speaker 03

  Oh, wow, that's a great question. I don't know, I think for me, it's a little bit different. Like, when you think about like the schools that I went to, like, I went to a smaller school. I went to George Washington University. And a lot of the people that they try to push or that they do push, they went to bigger schools. And so automatically, they have that following with them of like coming from a bigger school and having the numbers on social media. You know, earlier on, the league really just wanted to try to get as many viewers as possible. And I think they took the easy route versus like just telling the stories and seeing how people would engage with those stories and being able to tell so many different stories that everybody would be able to see themselves and an athlete when they stepped on the court. And so, I think that's what it was.

• 3:48Speaker 03

  I think just like the following and the fan base wasn't there because I went to a smaller school. And a lot of people really didn't know about me when I first came into the league. I think it just kind of snowballed, to be honest.

• 3:58Ryan Clark?

  Is it changing now? Because it seemed like to me personally, like, in the last couple of years, like, I couldn't rattle off 15 WNBA players five years ago.

• 4:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 4:07Ryan Clark?

  Now, I can, you know, I can go in and have that conversation with what y'all doing in New York and Vegas and everything. You know what I'm saying? Like, they got some teams together.

• 4:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 4:15Ryan Clark?

  Have you seen the change personally? You know, even fame-wise? And honestly, financially, have you seen the change?

• 4:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, it's definitely a change within even like the last two years. It's a big change. Obviously, I think... You know, the hype from Katelyn Clark and Angel Reese playing in college, obviously, and having their fans kind of follow the league. But just all the things that we've kind of been doing over the years as well, trying to grow the league and making sure that our faces are seen. But I think even just being in New York, I think my first few years I was in Connecticut, I came from a small school, so it was kind of like a double whammy for me, just like being in a smaller market and not really being able to kind of grow my fan base and have people really see me. But being in New York City, man, it's been amazing. And that culminated with everything that's been going on with the league, it's been like second to none. So I'm walking around, people are yelling at me like, "Go Liberty, y'all gonna win the championship."

• 5:07Speaker 03

  Even last year, like, "Thank you for coming to New York," and it's been super crazy. But yeah, I think the league is just growing in a really great way. And like you said, I think the social aspect of it has changed too. Like, before you would get on social media and you would go under like a WNBA post and it would be like people talking crazy like, "Oh, get in the kitchen, make me a sandwich," crazy stuff like that. And now it's like if you're not watching the WNBA, you're missing out. You know, and so it's like the social aspect of the league has changed to where it's positive and people are really tuned into our game and what we can do. Because the product has always been great, it's just that we haven't had people really pushing it in the right ways, first of all, and we haven't had people, you know, watching it to the levels that it deserved to be watched and viewed. So it's growing.

• 5:50Speaker 03

  For me financially, I feel like it's good, it could be better. I think, you know, doing interviews and seeing with you guys really helps a lot to, you know, get it where it needs to be. But obviously, I still play overseas and I still make way more money overseas than I do in the WNBA or with my marketing. If that was combined, I still make way more money. So what I want it to be, even if it's not for me, it would be cool if it was for me, but like when I leave the league, I want players to be able to not have to go overseas and be able to make that type of money here, you know, in the U.S. with their families and loved ones. So, yeah, I think that's the growing point.

• 6:28Fred Taylor?

  Yeah, RC mentioned the stats, the awards, you know, the marketability and how the WNBA is in. Upward trajectory of growth. What people tend to miss is the journey. Right? Could you speak to us a little bit about the steps it took to get there? You were, you know, five nine, coming from Bahamas to Maryland. And now you're what, six six?

• 6:52Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 6:52Fred Taylor?

  Lot of hard work, all that effort, like, take us there.

• 6:55Speaker 03

  Oh, man, like, where do I even start? I just remember, so like, when I was growing up playing basketball, like, I had like a AAU coach that kind of was like my main coach. And like, he always wanted us to have like the experiences of like traveling and seeing how other people approach the game of basketball. And just like understanding that like, if you weren't working hard, somebody else was working hard, right? And so he would always take us to Florida, because you know, the Bahamas is like right underneath Florida. He would always take us to like Florida, Boynton Beach and different places like that, just to kind of like get the experience of seeing these other teams play and playing against people that were not just in the Bahamas. And I just remember like, probably like, maybe like seven or eight, and I just remember like, the kids were just so much more skilled than we were. You know, and it was like the first time I just like, thought about, I'm just like, why?

• 7:39Speaker 03

  Like, they're the same age as me, like, how are they so much better than me? And then they took us to like the different schools, and I'm like, every school has a basketball gym? You know, like, things that kids in the US kind of take for granted, like, we had, on my island, we had maybe two basketball gyms. And to get access to that was really hard, like, you, most times, you playing outside, the sun beating down on you, like, you, you know what I'm saying? Like, you didn't have the opportunity to play in those gyms. Like, we had the YMCA and maybe like one other high school. So, you know, just seeing all these different resources that these kids had, I'm just like, oh, like, it makes more sense, like, they have camps. They have people that are pouring into them, they have the facilities. And so it's allowing them to kind of get better at a faster rate than we're getting better.

• 8:19Speaker 03

  So even at that young age, it was kind of like, oh, okay, like, the US is really where I need to be if I really want to like, take the game seriously and like, really want to like, be a professional athlete. Because ever since I was a little kid, I knew that I wanted to be a pro athlete, like, that was it. That was the end all, be all, that was, that was the dream, that was the goal, like, it was no plan B. You know, and so for me, like, it kind of planted that seed. And I started to ask my parents about it, and my mom was like, no, I'm not letting you go. My baby and you too young and the typical thing that a mom would say, obviously, and I agree with her to be honest with you. I was too young at the time, but finally at the age of 13, I got in contact with a coach that was willing to, you know, bring me over and allow me to join their team and she also let me live with her.

• 9:02Speaker 03

  Her name was Diane Richardson and I ended up living with her, but like basically becoming a part of her family. But I just remember like the first time I stepped off the off the plane, like I didn't know that she was going to take me like straight to practice to like meet the team and like just, like run with them to see how I could hoop, you know, because at that time we didn't really have like highlight tapes and all that stuff like. She's kind of like taking our our word for it, taking my coaches word for it and really taking a chance on me. So I'm getting off the plane thinking like I'm just about to go to the house and chill and just have a regular day. She's like, oh no, we going to practice. And I just remember being in the car, like we had maybe like a 40 minute drive and I was just terrified, like just like, so nervous about like fitting in with this team and playing good and all this stuff.

• 9:44Speaker 03

  And we got to the gym and like I had never been in the cold like that before either. It was kind of like winter time. I remember getting in the bathroom and I'm like putting on my basketball stuff and I looked down, I'm like, oh shit, I'm ashy like. I'm like, I'm meeting me, see you for the first time and I'm ashy like, like I'm, I'm super scared now.

• 9:59Fred Taylor?

  And you didn't have any kicks either, right?

• 10:01Speaker 03

  Nah, I mean, I think I had like a pair of basketball shoes, but like I said, we played outside all the time. So like, I had some beat up shoes, you know what I'm saying? Like nothing, nothing crazy like that, but. Yeah, I'm just like, just being super nervous. I remember walking out of the gym and practicing with them and everything went well, obviously because I stayed and, like I said, I became a part of her family and I played JV like, like a year and a half and so like ninth grade. And half of like 10th grade, yeah, I was still playing JV and I just developed over time of just like, being hungry. I remember like just riding with her after games and stuff and just being like, like what can I do to play? Like what can I do to help the team because, I just, I was in the US and I wasn't, I wasn't getting no playing time. I was on the bench.

• 10:41Speaker 03

  You know, like even one of my teammates came to me back then was like, if I was you and I was all the way from the Bahamas and I wasn't playing, I'd just go back to the Bahamas. And I was just like, it was just like a dagger. I was just like dang.

• 10:51Ryan Clark?

  That sound like a Florida thing though. You know what I'm saying? That sound like some little jiffy Florida saying shit. If I was you, I'd go back to the crib.

• 11:00Speaker 03

  I was in Maryland, but yeah, that's some, that's some, that's some real, that's some real stuff. Like I'd just go back home and go to my family. And, but I think for me, it's just always been like just sticking, sticking things through. Like no matter what it is that I was going through, like I just knew that I could just, like I put in a little bit more effort, work a little bit harder. It was never about giving up. It was like, I'm where I'm supposed to be. I just gotta work a little bit harder and I just remember talking to her about like what I could do to just like make my game better and work harder and I don't know, I just, I just love hooping between like playing video games and playing basketball. If I could do those two things, I'm good. And that's basically what I was doing.

• 11:35Ryan Clark?

  You know, when you, uh, won the finals MVP, you talked about it being delayed, but not denied.

• 11:40Speaker 03

  Yup.

• 11:41Ryan Clark?

  And listening to the story of how you had to earn your way through the ranks. It's sort of like the WNBA story too.

• 11:49Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 11:49Ryan Clark?

  You know, kind of always knocking on the door.

• 11:51Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 11:51Ryan Clark?

  But they weren't letting you in.

• 11:53Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 11:54Ryan Clark?

  What was it like to be so close and have those failures in those moments?

• 12:01Speaker 03

  It's tough. I don't know. Like I just, I love the game so much and I know y'all know as athletes, but like, I don't know, when you, when you get so close and you lose, like I felt like I, I went into like a, like a deep depression to be honest with you. Like, I went into like a, like a state of mourning every single time that we, that we lost and, you know, thank God for my family and my fiance and like everybody that's poured into me that I could call them and talk to them and really like, just deal with it. But like, I just, like I wasn't on social media. Like I wasn't, I would just like, hide from the world and just like wait until next year to try to go after it again, to be honest with you. And I think for me, the celebration of winning the championship this year is great and it's a highlight, but I think

• 12:44Speaker 03

  the, the main thing that I'm most appreciative of is the fact that like I can just like, like I could watch basketball. Like, you know what I'm saying? I could watch basketball. I could be on social media. I could just like, You can live life. Yeah, I can just live, you know what I'm saying? And I feel like when I lost, I couldn't do none of that. Like, oh, the NBA on, I don't want to watch no basketball. Like, like, my heart broken right now. I can't even watch that. Like, you know, oh, they on social media talking about they parade and all this stuff. And like, I can't be on there. I just can't because like mentally, it was just too much for me. Because you exert yourself and you put so much into it trying to get a championship and then you fall short. And then to have it happen multiple times, like, it was just, it was really draining, to be honest with you. But now that I can step back and like, look at it, I guess with a lens like not being so close, you are right. Like, that's just been the story of my life.

• 13:29Speaker 03

  And the only difference between me and other people that aren't in my shoes is that I just didn't give up. I didn't give up. I didn't, you know, of course, in those moments, I dealt with the depression and all that stuff, but I kept going and I was ready for the next year. And when the opportunity came, I stepped up in those big moments and my teammates did the same thing and that was the different outcome.

• 13:51Channing Crowder?

  Talk about that jump. You were good. You were cool. You put some points on the board, you know what I'm saying? Then you became the best player in the league. Like, what was, I knew you took that COVID year off and all that. Like, was it, because you talked about the pressure. Was it mental? Was it physical? Because you, you ain't gained three inches since then. You was the same size. But it was just something like you were most improved. So that means you, I say you wasn't that good, but you was OK. And then they said, oh, he most improved to the best player in the league. Like, what were those steps? Was it mental? Was it physical? Had your game, the handles, the knowledge of the game? What was that?

• 14:25Speaker 03

  I don't know. I might get in trouble for saying this, but I'm gonna be 100% real with y'all right now. So I was playing overseas. I was playing in Russia. At that time, like, my Nike contract was coming up, right? I think an Olympic year was the next year. And obviously, any big brand, they're gonna try to endorse Olympians because, you know, they're about to be on the biggest stage. Everybody's about to be watching them. And at the time, like Nike was kind of like, yeah, like, yeah, we want you, but we really got to get these Olympians first. And I just remember like, talking to my agent and just being like, like, nah, like, they tripping. And I told him, I told him, I was like, you tell Nike, get back on the phone with Nike, and you tell them, next year, I'm about to win MVP. I'm about to, I'm about to take over the league. And if they don't re-sign me, they gonna look stupid. Just like that. Just like that.

• 15:09Speaker 03

  And he went back to them and he told them verbatim, "Got my Nike contract back. Next year MVP, to be honest with you." And I think that was the mental shift for me. Like, obviously, there's growing pains when you first come into the league. Like, you're playing against grown women who've been in the league multiple years, who know how to do this as professionals. And so, obviously, there's gonna be that time that you need to adjust. But I think for me, like, it was just like, like, man, like, these people really playing with me, for real, for real. You know, like, I'm not about to, y'all not about to keep playing with me. And I told my agent, he went back to them, and I got the deal, and I did everything that I said that I was gonna do, to be honest with you.

• 15:47Fred Taylor?

  I love it. Getting to the point where you were able to win the Finals MVP award, it was not an easy feat. A year ago, you guys battled versus the Aces. That didn't go your way. This year, you find a way to beat the Aces, make it to the Finals versus the Lynx. Tough battle there. You grinded, you did your thing. To win the Finals MVP, what did you learn most about yourself?

• 16:13Speaker 03

  Yeah. The first thing I learned is that I'm just really resilient. I think that's the main thing. The second thing that I learned, not really about myself, but just about the moment, is just like, I know it sounds super cliche, but to like, literally to like, appreciate the moment. And I think for me, this year, I really went into it, and it was just like, like, we not about to go out there and just like, play not to lose. That's the first thing, like, we not about to do that. We not about to be out there focusing on the outcome during the game, and worrying about, you know, every little thing, and kinda just, it allows the moment to kinda get bigger than you. And I think that was the, really the main thing that I focus on. Like, before every single game in the Finals, like, I literally would just look up at the crowd before they called us in the starting lineup,

• 16:57Speaker 03

  and be like, like, "Look at this, like, look at women's sports. Look at, look at what we're doing. Like, the gym is packed. Like, these people are in here watching the game." Like, you know what I'm saying? Just to really just sit in the moment of, "You worked so hard to be here, and you dreamed about these moments." Like, you were the little kid, you know, like, shooting free throws on the blacktop outside, like, envisioning for the championship. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, stuff like that. And you get into these moments, and like, the preparation of it, and the pressure, all that stuff, it kinda... And sometimes you forget just how far you've actually come. And so I really just, I sat in that moment of just like appreciation before anything else, and gratitude, and then I just went out there and I just played basketball.

• 17:38Speaker 03

  And I think when they called me for the finals MVP, like that look on my face of me being so surprised was because I wasn't even looking at the numbers, to be honest with you. Like, I wasn't looking at my stats. Like, I couldn't even tell you what I was averaging during the series because for me it didn't matter. Like, I had come up short so many times that it was, it didn't matter how much I scored. It would matter if we won the game. And then it mattered if we won the next game, and then the next one. And that's why I was so shocked. It wasn't like, like I didn't feel like I deserved it, or I wasn't thinking about it in that sense. But it was just that I was just trying to focus on getting the job done and not having to be, you know, thinking about, or having to be the person that fell short again. And I think that's why I was so surprised.

• 18:21Speaker 03

  But, yeah, the resiliency is one of the things that sticks out to me. And just the gratitude of just really thanking God for being in that position. And then also being able to be loose and go out there and just play good basketball.

• 18:33Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 18:33Fred Taylor?

  It was 17, by the way.

• 18:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 18:37Fred Taylor?

  The Liberty was comprised of the most players on the WNBA team. If you guys didn't win, would that have been a letdown? With you, Stewart, Ionescu, would it have been a letdown if you guys didn't win?

• 18:52Speaker 03

  Yes, but I don't think, not because of the WNBA team stuff, but because of how last year finished. And I think, and I spoke to them about this. I think if we won the championship last year, I don't think, I don't even think we're in the championship this year. I think there would have been a certain level of complacency with us being a team that literally just came together, made it to a championship, and then won a championship. I think we were kind of taking it for granted a little bit. But I just, we had so many conversations about, about that feeling of coming up short. And then coming up short the way that we did in the first year with the Aces, losing two starters, you know, and their bench really coming in and like closing it out on us. Like, that, that was a gut punch, you know, for us as, as competitors. And then us as a team too, who really thought at that time that we

• 19:36Speaker 03

  We had really worked through a lot of the things that we needed to, to be successful. And so, we just, we came back to the drawing board and we looked ourselves in the mirror and we were really honest about what it was that we needed to do to be able to win. And I think that's why it would have been a gut punch because we put in so much work as a team and as individuals to be able to be successful. Y'all watch sports, y'all are athletes. Sometimes talent does not translate to a team winning or even a team having chemistry.

• 20:04Fred Taylor?

  Yeah.

• 20:04Speaker 03

  I don't, I don't think the all WNBA thing, our team thing would have been the biggest letdown or would have, would have caused it to be a letdown, but just the fact that we knew that we were capable of being able to win.

• 20:14Fred Taylor?

  I thought you was gonna hit me with the, I guess we'll never know.

• 20:18Speaker 03

  Nah, I feel like that's cliche now, man. Like, it's kinda cliche now.

• 20:22Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, I mean, it was from a WNBA standard, a super team.

• 20:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 20:25Ryan Clark?

  That, that sort of came together. And like I was saying, it was 17 points, by the way, just in case you'd like to know for the next few shows you go on.

• 20:33Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, oh, yeah, no, I know now. I know now. But, you know.

• 20:38Ryan Clark?

  Hey, fellas, we all have these daily routines we get into. And as regimented people from being in the league, we hate when those things are thrown off. Tell me a routine you have that you hate when a monkey wrench is thrown into that plane.

• 20:51Channing Crowder?

  Man, I gotta get my kombucha in the morning. We travel so much, man, I can't find my kombucha, man. My stomach, I feel bloated and all, man. Let me get a kombucha, let me get my probiotics in me. But when that's thrown off, man, I feel the difference when kombucha's not in my life.

• 21:06Fred Taylor?

  I can't help but laugh at you because I'm the same way. But I'm not kombucha. I'm just lemon and ginger, hot water. To get my system flowing, I gotta have that every morning, RC. I'm simple.

• 21:17Ryan Clark?

  Well, fellas, thankfully, you know what doesn't get skipped? Daily rewards from Fanatic Sportsbook. Bruh, every day you'll get a new offer from them, guaranteed.

• 21:26Fred Taylor?

  Bet and get profit boosts and more.

• 21:29Ryan Clark?

  Head to the Fanatic Sportsbook app each day and see what offer is waiting there for you. The WNBA is a league that has always had such skill for players. And it was about putting them on the right stage in order to showcase their talent, which I think this year did more than any other year in this existence. But on top of it being a minority league, right, and just being women, it's also over 75% black.

• 21:56Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 21:56Ryan Clark?

  And then you add to that, it's also... You, in particular, are a woman.

• 22:04Speaker 03

  Uh huh.

• 22:05Ryan Clark?

  You're black.

• 22:05Speaker 03

  Uh huh.

• 22:06Ryan Clark?

  And you're a lesbian.

• 22:07Speaker 03

  Uh huh.

• 22:08Ryan Clark?

  When I think of the WNBA names I know, and you can push back if you like, I think of Sabrina, I think of Katelyn, I think of Asia.

• 22:18Speaker 03

  Uh huh.

• 22:19Ryan Clark?

  Right? You think of Angel Reese.

• 22:21Speaker 03

  Uh huh.

• 22:21Ryan Clark?

  Those women are heterosexual women.

• 22:24Speaker 03

  Uh huh.

• 22:24Ryan Clark?

  And also very good basketball players.

• 22:27Speaker 03

  Yes, most definitely.

• 22:28Ryan Clark?

  How much does being a black lesbian in that league play a part in the difficulty in the league marketing you with all of your accolades?

• 22:40Speaker 03

  I don't know. I think for me, I'm not in those rooms when those decisions are made. I do feel like our league has a high percentage of lesbian women. And so there are a lot of women that are queer that are being marketed and are being advertised. So I'm not sure if that is like, I don't think my sexuality is the main thing. Like, there's a reason why it's called a minority, right? And to be at the intersectionality of so many of those marginalized groups, I feel like, especially in the USA, it would probably be,

• 23:17Speaker 03

  like, it would probably be dumb of me to say that I'm not being affected by it in some type of way. But I think that the way that the league has marketed in the past is a thing of the past. I feel like the WNBA is moving in a new direction. I hope I'm right, that they're giving more athletes the opportunities to be able to tell their stories. Like, I did something a few years ago for ESPN where I talked about this, and I said that I think that if the league is gonna be its best, it's a league that allows everyone to have a seat at the table in terms of the people that are playing in this league and being able to share their stories. And I think it's growing, and I genuinely hope that, you know, in a few years, we can really see, like, more variety of players and people really being able to share their stories. So we'll see.

• 24:02Channing Crowder?

  With all, like you're saying, the minorities of all those sectors or something. But just looking at basketball, period, NBA, it's hard to market a big.

• 24:10Speaker 03

  Uh huh. Yeah.

• 24:11Channing Crowder?

  It's because people love Steph Curry because he's their size and he looks like them. And I can try to do that and shoot threes where what you do to people is just whoop their ass down low.

• 24:20Speaker 03

  Right, right, right.

• 24:21Channing Crowder?

  And it's not relatable.

• 24:23Ryan Clark?

  You're trying to say it's not cute?

• 24:24Channing Crowder?

  It's not a cute game. You be beating the hell out of people, but I can't watch you and be like, oh yeah, I'm gonna get down there with them. I'm not getting down there with y'all. But just being a big, I think that's part of the marketing, right?

• 24:36Speaker 03

  I think so. I think so. I think definitely like, the more highlight plays you can kind of push out there, like the easier it is gonna be for marketability. But I think that we can find spaces for people, like, there's different like products that we use. There's different, you know, like, it's just, there's so many different ways to reach people now with social media and have that fan engagement. And so, I don't know, I think style of play, if you're gonna use that as like the main reason to not be able to market somebody, I think you're kind of copping out a little bit.

• 25:06Channing Crowder?

  Yeah, I agree. You gotta act crazy like Shaq does.

• 25:11Channing Crowder?

  For real, start doing crazy stuff, spraying super soakers on people.

• 25:15Speaker 03

  Right, right, right. Just show up and just act out.

• 25:17Channing Crowder?

  Name another big that really got marketed like that in the history of basketball.

• 25:21Ryan Clark?

  You gotta think too, it's also some of what the individual is willing to do.

• 25:25Speaker 03

  That's true.

• 25:26Ryan Clark?

  You know what I mean? Like it's, like there are ways that you could market yourself that I wouldn't, because it's just not my personality. The same thing with Fred. Fred probably also with me. And there are people who are comfortable being a certain thing, because that's truly who they authentically are. And I think the hard part about marketing is, is like, how do I take who I truly am and give that to the people? And then there's also like the part of that, that's, there's a vulnerability in that too. Champions call, man, be like that.

• 25:55Speaker 03

  I'm telling you, that's too much partying, man.

• 25:57Ryan Clark?

  You know what I mean? Champions call. They don't know, though. Like, it's not, it's not really, JJ, it's not really, like, you know, because I was just, you know what, let's get back to that. You know what I was thinking? It's a lot of things we share, you know?

• 26:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 26:10Ryan Clark?

  You know, like, we sharing the fact that we won a ring, but we also got to championships and didn't. You know? Whereas, on their side, Jay, they don't know either one of them.

• 26:21Speaker 03

  Oh, y'all ain't been to that chip before?

• 26:23Fred Taylor?

  Nah, I didn't go on a pro level. I played in college.

• 26:26Speaker 03

  Okay, okay.

• 26:27Fred Taylor?

  That counts for something, right?

• 26:28Speaker 03

  That does count for something.

• 26:30Fred Taylor?

  I was on the same thing. I lost a national championship and I won one. I know the feeling.

• 26:41Fred Taylor?

  I know the feeling.

• 26:42Speaker 03

  Of coming up short, yeah.

• 26:44Fred Taylor?

  And of winning the championship.

• 26:45Speaker 03

  And of winning one, yeah.

• 26:46Fred Taylor?

  I was young, so it felt like I won the world championship.

• 26:48Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 26:49Fred Taylor?

  It felt that way.

• 26:50Channing Crowder?

  Eighth grade, North Georgia Gatorade championship.

• 26:53Speaker 03

  Oh, not eighth grade. He's looking back to eighth grade.

• 26:59Fred Taylor?

  What sport was that, football? Football. He can even celebrate, though. At least I could go get drunk in college.

• 27:05Speaker 03

  He said eighth grade, that's crazy work.

• 27:08Ryan Clark?

  When you come together as a super team and you don't win it.

• 27:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:12Ryan Clark?

  Right, and it's really cool what you said, because Becky Hammond said something very similar about the Aces this year. Right, she said, "I feel like other teams looked at this offseason in a different way than we did."

• 27:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:26Ryan Clark?

  It makes me think, both of these guys live in South Florida, it makes me think about the big three, though. Right, they came together and they didn't win it. Did y'all in any way look at their process of like, okay, we didn't get this one, but we know we have to come back this year and be better?

• 27:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, most definitely. One of my coaches that I grew up with, she's the head coach at Ole Miss, and she kept saying it to me like, like Bron, when Bron and them came together in Miami, they didn't win it the first year. You know, and she kept reaching out to me, her name is Coach Yolet McFee McKeown, she's the head coach at Ole Miss. But we just understood that it was gonna take a little bit more. We understood that, I don't know, like, of course we would have celebrated, it would have been a great thing for New York City, but to come together in that first year and win, like, we just knew that we just were not gonna, we were gonna take it for granted in some point, at some stage. And so, I think that was the main thing of just like, there were some things and some conversations last year that we didn't have, that we needed to have. But we didn't have the chemistry to be able to have those conversations.

• 28:29Speaker 03

  We didn't have the connection with each other to really sit back and really just be honest and, you know, like brutally honest to the point where you figure it out and you get something done and... This year, we did that. You know, and it takes growth and it takes time to be able to get there as a team. I think that's the main thing, though.

• 28:47Channing Crowder?

  And it's that, speaking of the Heat, because well, I'm down there, I covered the Heat, you know, two all, I got there in 05, so I saw it all.

• 28:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 28:53Channing Crowder?

  And it was that, uh, did y'all, y'all had a banana boat moment? Remember the banana boat?

• 28:57Speaker 03

  Nah, it was the banana boat moment. I was, y'all were a little bit younger.

• 29:01Channing Crowder?

  LeBron, Wade, Bosch, and Mello. CP3. Who was, CP, not Mello, CP3.

• 29:05Ryan Clark?

  Mello said he didn't make the banana boat.

• 29:06Channing Crowder?

  Yeah, and they all on the banana boat, riding the banana boat, and it became, it went viral and all that.

• 29:11Ryan Clark?

  The reason the banana boats are issues is because in order to ride a banana boat, you gotta strap on the boat like this. I'm from the Bahamas, I know what a banana boat is.

• 29:18Channing Crowder?

  So you know the banana boats. Them big old motherfuckers piled up on a banana boat together, looking at the shore. But, but the story deeper to that picture was that, that first year, like, they didn't really know how to play with each other, and the story is that D Wade kinda took LeBron to the side and was like, I'm gonna start, he got his championship with Shaq. But he was like, bro, you're, you're coming up, he's like, you take the team over, like, they had to really have that, it's funny, I remind you because you just said that.

• 29:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 29:46Channing Crowder?

  Had to have a real grown-up conversation, a teammate conversation. Going from year one to year two with a super team is what it is.

• 29:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 29:52Channing Crowder?

  Was there any, any moment where it was like, y'all had that flat-out conversation of, hey, we tried this, we tried this shit last year, we need to do something different this year?

• 30:01Speaker 03

  We didn't really have like a, I'm sorry, man, I can't stop coughing.

• 30:04Channing Crowder?

  It's alright.

• 30:06Ryan Clark?

  You know, we legal here.

• 30:08Channing Crowder?

  Nah, that's Hennessy cough, damn.

• 30:11Speaker 03

  Shut up, man.

• 30:14Channing Crowder?

  That white Hennessy.

• 30:16Speaker 03

  That's that 1942 cough.

• 30:18Channing Crowder?

  1942, man.

• 30:19Ryan Clark?

  Get stuck right here, it get stuck right here.

• 30:23Speaker 03

  Y'all stupid.

• 30:24Ryan Clark?

  She don't have no mixer either.

• 30:25Speaker 03

  Nah, straight up.

• 30:26Ryan Clark?

  It's championship.

• 30:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 30:27Ryan Clark?

  He had 1942.

• 30:28Speaker 03

  To the head.

• 30:28Ryan Clark?

  Neat.

• 30:30Channing Crowder?

  Neat. And it ain't neat because you know, you win a championship, you like, man, we don't need no cups.

• 30:35Speaker 03

  Oh, man, y'all funny, man.

• 30:37Channing Crowder?

  Yeah, we parted a little bit.

• 30:39Speaker 03

  We didn't really have the banana boat moment. I think, I think our moment was kind of like when we, we shifted really to kind of like just focusing on like the big three versus like, I think when we first came in, it was like Slud and Bonaja and Sabrina and Stewie and, and me and like, we were all just trying to make sure everybody was like, had a piece of it and like, it was just too much, you know, and I think our head coach Sandy, she really just talked to us and she was like, like, I have to focus on y'all too. Like, we need a big three right now. We just have to, we have to be okay with that as a team. And we talked about that as a team and, you know, everybody just understood that you had to, you had to really just fill your role and do it to the best of your ability. And I think that's when we kind of really started playing way better.

• 31:20Speaker 03

  I also think like last year, I was, I started off the season injured. I didn't really get into my momentum all the way and everybody else had kind of figured out their roles on the team. And for me, I was just kind of just like, I was still trying to figure it out late into the year. Um, and I, I ended up playing really well in the playoffs, but that's because I started to figure out like my feel and my flow with the team and where I fit in. We really had growing pains all year last year. So for us to make it to a championship, that was, that was a feat within itself, to be honest. And then it ended up showing in game four when Vegas beat us, but you know.

• 31:53Channing Crowder?

  Man, we always talking about Trail Blazers. Have y'all watched Shohei Ohtani this year? Mm. He is a Trail Blazer. Ace pitcher and a DH. Fifty and fifty. He was down in mind when he hit the fifty fifty. As a pitcher and a DH. I'm telling you, you talking about Trail Blazers, just like JBL Tour Pro 3's. Shohei's a Trail Blazer, JBL, they Trail Blazers.

• 32:14Ryan Clark?

  And Chan, the coolest part is JBL Tour Pro 3 earbuds are packed with innovation because you can't stand out by following other folks. And that's what we all about at The Pivot.

• 32:24Fred Taylor?

  They have a touchscreen smart charging case for one touch control. You can even control your audio without reaching for your phone.

• 32:32Channing Crowder?

  And it's also instant EQ customization and true adaptive noise cancelling. On the plane, it's the best for them loud babies.

• 32:40Ryan Clark?

  With its built-in one-of-a-kind audio transmitter, you can plug and play with any device you want, from game consoles to in-flight entertainment.

• 32:49Ryan Clark?

  Connecting you to all your favorite music, movies, and games.

• 32:54Fred Taylor?

  Plus, you'll get Spatial 360 Sound. That takes any audio and turns it into a 360 immersive experience.

• 33:02Ryan Clark?

  And that mean on these bad boys, you can listen to music, podcasts, whatever you want. And the JBL Tour Pro 3s, this is the Pivot's go-to. First Doesn't Follow, the new JBL Tour Pro 3s. Grab a pair at JBL.com.

• 33:19Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Good times mean competitions between you and your friends. Like seeing who can throw some pigskin the farthest, or rush the field the fastest. Winner gets an Ultra. Because it's not just a superior-like beer. It's also giving fans superior access to their favorite sporting events. Superior is worth playing for. Visit michelobultra.com/superioraccess to enter. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2026 Anheuser-Busch InBev Michelob Ultra Beer, St. Louis, Missouri.

• 33:47Fred Taylor?

  You don't always get the recognition you deserve. And there are a lot of other players around the league that have a similar, you know, things that follow them. How does your story resonate with some of the other players? Do a few of y'all, or has a few of y'all had conversations about what can be done to sort of change those things?

• 34:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, no, I haven't really talked to anybody else about it. I don't know, I look at a lot of like, especially black players that are legends that have like come through the league. And like they kind of have like their farewell tours and I'm just like, that's not what they deserve, you know? And I feel like sometimes I get a little bit of animosity when I think about it. Cause I just know how much they've given to the league. And how much they meant to a lot of us younger players watching them. And then to see them have like their farewell tours and I feel like it's like lackluster or like something is missing. I don't like that part of it. And I feel like for me, when I think about it, I think Simone Augustus was like one of those people for me who was just like a legend.

• 34:54Speaker 03

  Like, for real, I just felt like she deserved more when it was her time to, you know, get her flowers and get what she deserved and, um, I don't know, sometimes I talk to my fiance about, I'm like, I'm giving all my years to the league, but like, what's gonna happen when I decide to hang it up? Are they gonna treat me the same way they did these people? You understand what I'm saying? So, um, I think we just have to continue to use the platforms, like me sitting here talking about it and being 100% honest. I think sometimes, and I fall into this category a lot, because I was raised a certain type of way of like having manners and respect and carrying yourself a certain way. Sometimes I try to be too politically correct and sometimes when you're too PC, you end up, you end up losing out too. You know, because there's other people, they're speaking up about what they want,

• 35:37Speaker 03

  whether it's right or wrong in that situation and they're getting what they deserve. And so sometimes you just have to be brutally honest about the things that you see, the things that you feel and allow people to then meet you there and, you know, try to alleviate that or fix that. I don't know, I just hope that as we have more players that are done with their careers or even during their careers, that we can continue to just like give people their flowers. Like Tina Charles, I think, became second all time in WNBA scoring this year and it was crickets. Like, we barely heard it, you know? Um, this is someone like, in order to do that, it takes, it takes longevity. It takes years of sacrifice and giving to the league and, and, and giving to yourself to be able to be in that position and we not even celebrating her properly.

• 36:19Fred Taylor?

  That's a league thing though, right?

• 36:21Speaker 03

  That's a league thing, exactly. So, we have to fix that, like, it's not about like who you are, it's about, it's about what you're doing, it's about how you're playing. Um, and the numbers don't lie. So, we gotta, we gotta be honest about it and we gotta continue to uplift people that have given so much to this league.

• 36:36Fred Taylor?

  You mentioned Simone Augustus. One of my homies, Tina Thompson, is a dog out there. Earlier, you also mentioned that you knew you wanted to go pro. You wanted to be a, a, a professional player. What inspired that and who were some of your favorites coming?

• 36:53Speaker 03

  Some of my favorites coming up. I really didn't know much about like the WNBA when I was in the Bahamas. I learned more about the WNBA when I moved to the US, like as I got older. But like we didn't have, like, of course, we had cable and all that stuff, but like the WNBA games, you didn't really have that. I remember I was at my grandmother's house like one year and I saw it. I'm like Detroit shock. Like who is, like, you know what I'm saying? I'm like, oh, these women playing. Like, I really, I, I, this is crazy. But college was always like that, that main thing that I always wanted to do. Like, college was that main thing. And so I said her name already, but Coach Yo, Yollette McPhee-McKeon. She was like my inspiration. Like, her dad was the AAU coach that I talked about earlier.

• 37:33Speaker 03

  And she went off to, she went to Rhode Island and she would always come back home and make sure like we had the things that we needed and pour into us too. And so she was like my role model growing up for sure. But other greats, Candace Parker, Lisa Leslie, obviously, Tina Thompson, Cheryl Swoops, Cynthia Cooper. You know, Lauren Jackson, like that big that could just do it all. That, those are the type of people that obviously like I watched a lot of. Even like Elena Del Dawn too, like when I was in college, like her game, her game translated very well to my game. Cause I could step out and shoot the three, you know, and take people off the dribble and different stuff like that. And so I watched a lot of her clips and like use like her preparation of how she prepared before the games.

• 38:14Speaker 03

  Like her shooting and different stuff like that to kind of, to mold that into my game. So a lot of those people.

• 38:19Ryan Clark?

  When you started dunking?

• 38:22Speaker 03

  I was close in high school, but I, I could only like dunk a tennis ball.

• 38:27Speaker 03

  But I think, I think like maybe like second year in the league or something like that. Yeah, second year in the league is when I really, and then I think, yeah, second year in the league was also when I dunked in the All-Star game too. So, yeah, I would say around that time. Yeah.

• 38:39Ryan Clark?

  So Simone, her pops, when she was in high school, I went to LSU as well. He would bring her to the rec center and he would just, he would just stand on the side. And just watch her play with like men. And she was obviously the most skilled person on the court. So then what she did in school, then what she went on to do in Minnesota, like we all knew. But when you see her, she's still so unassuming.

• 39:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 39:03Ryan Clark?

  Right? Just cool as hell, chill, laid back. And it brought me to something you said about when you're PC, right? Or when you don't speak up for certain things. Simone don't talk.

• 39:13Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 39:14Ryan Clark?

  Right, and so even though she was great, she was winning championships, she wasn't the one that they focused on. For you, in knowing that, and being able to verbalize, maybe because I'm so PC, how are you going to approach that going forward? Are you gonna change some of those things, understanding that you may not get what you want, or what you truly deserve if you don't?

• 39:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think, I think even me just sitting here and just like being completely honest about the stories that I'm telling, like, you know, in the past, someone probably would have asked me like, "Oh, like, when did you make your jump to MVP?" And I wouldn't have told y'all that story that I told y'all before, because I'm like, "Oh, that's gonna make them look this type of way, that's gonna make this person look that type of way. How's it gonna be received?" And you start overthinking it, and you're protecting everybody, but you're not protecting yourself. You know, I think that's the main thing, it's like, you're looking out for everybody's, everybody else's best interest, but who's looking out for his best interest? You know, and so, there is a, like, a, not a happy medium, but there is a balance of it, obviously, I'm not about to just be out here just wilding, but, you understand what I'm saying? Like, I still, I still got some, in the Bahamas, we say "brought up seed", I still got some brought up seed, like, I was brought up right.

• 40:19Speaker 03

  But, um, for the most part, like, yeah, me sitting here and just being honest with y'all, I think is like a big step for me, to be honest with you. I'll continue to do that, and, and, and just understand that, like, my voice does carry a lot of power, and like, I don't know, I think sometimes when you're from where I'm from, like, Bohemian people are so humble, too, that sometimes you step into certain spaces, and I think the humility, which is a good thing at times, can also be a bad thing. So, like I said, it's a happy medium with everything. I'm in a balance with everything, and I'll continue to try to, try to strike that balance, and find that balance as I move forward.

• 40:50Ryan Clark?

  Have you met Jazz since he's been here?

• 40:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, I got this, anyway, let me go ahead.

• 40:53Ryan Clark?

  I have a question.

• 40:54Speaker 03

  I'm about to talk too much again.

• 40:55Ryan Clark?

  Hold on, like, so, when you, like, listen, so Jazz is, Jazz is a friend of the show. Jazz, Jazz did our show before this season, and it was one of the best sit downs we had. You know, you talked about being PC, and you talked about, you know, being humble as a Bohemian trait. He ain't got them. What, what out of you from? Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, because you were saying that, I was like.

• 41:24Speaker 03

  Jazz ain't like that.

• 41:25Ryan Clark?

  I was thinking to myself, is Jazz from somewhere else?

• 41:29Channing Crowder?

  He's from Exumas.

• 41:32Speaker 03

  Maybe, maybe the hospitality is it like, like actually wanting people to feel like they are part of everything. Maybe the humility is more me.

• 41:39Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, well, I do want to ask that, though. You see people like Jazz who gets an opportunity to come from Florida where it was this talent that was sort of wasting away to being in New York and now the world being able to see that. Sort of the same with you, you know, you're playing in a small market in Connecticut. Now you come to New York and you win it and you get that sort of visibility. I'm from New Orleans, like when you said Simone, I was like, hell, yeah. You know, like I get fired up about that. How much of that pride, though, do you have in the Bahamas in wanting to make sure people not only know that they're great athletes that can come there, but start pouring into the Bahamas to help the younger generation as well?

• 42:21Speaker 03

  Obviously, I can do stuff while I'm playing basketball, but I think that's what I want my second, second act to be. Like when I'm, when I'm really done playing basketball is just making sure that the infrastructure in the Bahamas is there to allow like the, the great potential that we have to not be wasted. I think, I mean, obviously, when you look at the amount of athletes that have come out of the Bahamas, like per capita is crazy, to be honest with you. Even just look at like our, our men's basketball team, you got like Buddy Heel, Deandre Ayton. You know, my cousin, Antoine Smith, he plays overseas. We just have so many people, Klay Thompson, obviously, and his dad and his family. But we have so many people that have so much potential, but they have to leave home and be able to have that opportunity to then be able to be successful.

• 43:05Speaker 03

  And if someone didn't take a chance on me, I'd be one of those people in the Bahamas, you know, that was talking like, man, I could have been the WNBA and everybody be like, ah, be quiet, girl, flip that burger. You know what I'm saying? Like something crazy like that. But someone took a chance on me and like I'm sitting here with y'all today. And I think we just need to make it easier for our athletes. We need to just understand that the level of investment is, is really important. And the Bahamas is a really big like tourist destination. Tourism is our main industry, but we have to understand that like the athletes and the potential that we have needs to be like, it has to be big on the list, like, you know what I'm saying? We have to really try to do that.

• 43:40Ryan Clark?

  Chan, what you do, you going through the grocery store? Publix is your grocery store, right?

• 43:44Channing Crowder?

  Nah, I love Publix.

• 43:45Ryan Clark?

  And JJ up there taking your, if she didn't get make it to the league, is she up there taking your, getting your groceries and typing them in? And she's 6'6". The first thing you gonna ask is like, "Why you ain't hooping?"

• 43:57Channing Crowder?

  I did it before at church. There's a big old motherfucker at church, 6'8". I said, "Bro, you ain't got no cousins, no uncles. What you doing here getting me chicken?"

• 44:08Speaker 03

  What he said? Probably mad.

• 44:11Ryan Clark?

  Mumbling that shit, he knew he messed up.

• 44:15Channing Crowder?

  I had to say, Jay, I think I'm in the Bahamas more than you are. I be in Bahama, I be riding over to Bimby to fish. I'm right there in Miami, we can shoot across the island for it. Yeah, you get a fast enough boat.

• 44:26Speaker 03

  That's amazing. See, I wanna, I wanna live down there, but you know, when you got island family, they start shipping all the packages to your house, they start popping up, you know what I'm saying? So I gotta, I gotta have a little bit of separation. And also them hurricanes scare me, man, I've been through so many like, really bad hurricanes as a kid in the Bahamas that like, I don't know, that's why, that's why I'm up in Georgia now, I'm like, it's too, it's too close down there.

• 44:47Channing Crowder?

  Okay, if you see a big old light-skinned motherfucker snorkeling in Bahama, that's me out there. I be snorkeling my ass off around that Little Rock Peak.

• 44:57Speaker 03

  We love Bahama, Bahama is nice.

• 44:58Channing Crowder?

  Yeah, it's nice as hell. I wanted to ask about, like, the sexism of it with the Caitlin Clark situation. And not about her, but the whole thing about, you know, like, people were kinda, I would say roughing her up and all that. I'm like, it's, this is sports, these are competitors. And, you know, let me know if I'm speaking out of place, I'm like, them young ladies come in the league, and you gotta let them know how the league is. It don't have nothing to do with race, or color, or religion, or nothing like that. It's like, hey, I'm a vet, I'm an MVP. You gonna come down here in the paint with me? Back in the day when we watched it, you don't come down in the paint without getting roughed up. Are we wrong by saying that? It had nothing to do with it. The boys can do it, but the ladies can't do it. That was my problem with the whole situation.

• 45:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, it was, it was crazy, just the whole narrative that was being pushed, like, it was just, it was just like, nah, like, and it always felt like it was from people that Just don't know about sports or don't really understand sports because you don't have to explain that to an athlete. You didn't have to even explain that to Katelyn Clark. She understood what it was gonna be like before she came into the league and that we not about to roll out the red carpet for you and have you bust our ass looking crazy on SportsCenter. You know what I'm saying? Like, we, we competitors too and we're here for a reason. And the amount of people that actually make it to the WNBA is, is very slim. So the competitive drive and what you gonna feel out there and what you gonna go through out there is gonna be, is gonna be tough. You know, and so she understood that. We understood that. It was never anything malicious. It was never any ill intent. It was just that we, we trying to win this game and

• 46:28Speaker 03

  she's a player that can really affect how the game goes, whether we're successful or unsuccessful. And we gotta get her out of the game. And that's just what it was.

• 46:36Fred Taylor?

  With her, all her talk in the media, the visibility on the game, the growth, projected growth. You know, it's strange that when you look at like men's basketball and football, you can look at cities and say this city is a marketable city. Yes. You know what I'm saying?

• 46:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 46:54Fred Taylor?

  Whereas you're here in New York, other places, it's not, it's not necessarily the same, but you guys were able to, through your CBA, strike a, a media deal this past year. How excited, you know, what's the buzz around the league amongst the women? And how excited are you all to, to see that happening? And to be able to have an outlook to say, alright, we finally might be able to start receiving our due.

• 47:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, man. I think everybody's excited. That's the first thing. Like, we're, we're, we understand that we're getting it to the percentages that we want it to be at. And I think that's been the biggest, like,

• 47:34Speaker 03

  I think, thing that we've seen in the media where we're just like, people are misconstruing what we're trying to say. We're not saying we want to be paid like NBA players. We're saying we want the same percentages as NBA players. And so I think that was the biggest thing. And so As the league has grown, um, obviously, there's gonna be more viewership. There's gonna be more, um, more games on television. And we understand that that means that eventually, there's gonna be more money in the players' pockets. And for me, I don't know, maybe I'll be able to reap the benefits of that while I'm playing. But I know that when I leave the league, like, these young bucks that's gonna be coming in after me, they gonna be like, overseas, what? They don't have to do that.

• 48:11Fred Taylor?

  Yeah.

• 48:11Speaker 03

  They not gonna have to do that. And so, that's a beautiful thing. And so, I love that for the game. And I love that for the future WNBA players, that that's not gonna have to be something that is a reality for them.

• 48:21Fred Taylor?

  Even the NFL, they've taken their show on the road internationally. You know, the NBA, Dubai, and NFL in Germany, Ireland, you know, there in London. Have you all, have there been talks amongst the WNBA to do that sort of stuff?

• 48:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, so they did one last, last year? Yeah, I think it was last year, they went up to Toronto, and they sold that place out, man. They sold out the gym in Toronto. And that was the first time, I think, a WNBA team had played up there, because they don't have a team up there. And after that, it was like, big talks, like, oh, Toronto needs a team.

• 48:52Fred Taylor?

  I mean, sort of like, where you guys play overseas.

• 48:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 48:55Fred Taylor?

  Like, that sort of push.

• 48:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 48:57Fred Taylor?

  Where, you know, they, they come and watch you guys. You guys get compensated, you know, a lot better than the teams here. To be able to take an American team and highlight it in those sort of overseas market. I think that would be something that could help your brand.

• 49:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think it's gonna be a big step for the WNBA to, to start doing that. And like, really helping to grow the league and the game over there. And I also think it'll help, like, in terms of, like, having a better relationship with, like, FIBA and... Because, you know, we have to, like, we have to show up at training camp at a certain time, right? But a lot of the teams overseas are still having their season during that time. And so, I feel like there needs to be, like, a better relationship between, like, FIBA and, like, Euroleague and the WNBA, because they're asking us to be back at a certain time, but we, we still have our overseas commitments. And so, now, we're losing, like, percentages of our WNBA salary if we're not back at a certain time. So, it takes away certain places where we could play, certain money that we could make, because now, we have to, we have to show up at camp at a certain time, where in the past, it wasn't really like,

• 49:58Speaker 03

  you could kind of come in a little bit later, miss a little bit of training camp. Because you're really in shape, you're playing basketball year-round. So, um, I think it'll help grow the game, but I also think it'll help with the relationships between the leagues.

• 50:09Ryan Clark?

  You know, speaking of relationships, Alyssa Thomas, um, one of the best hoopers.

• 50:15Ryan Clark?

  And all of the WNBA, I mean does absolutely everything. During the playoffs, she spoke out and condemned racism. They're playing and obviously the Fever fans were being the Fever fans. And I love the fact that she was willing in front of the press and the media to condemn racism. And she said, and now it's on the officials, I've told you what it is. Have you ever had any encounters with things like that since you've been in the WNBA?

• 50:45Speaker 03

  No, never, never. I don't know, I feel like they, I think a lot of the fans, like the Caitlin Clark fans, I think they, they wanted to latch on to Caitlin Clark and then use her as like, I guess like this fuel to be able to be the way that they want it to be, you know? And I think, I think that's why there was such big backlash when she liked the whole Taylor Swift post saying like vote for Kamala Harris because they want her to be the representation of their racism and, and you know, like their view on the world and she's not like that. And I think you have to be careful when you say like the Fever fans, because I don't think it's the Fever fans. I think it's the people that wanted Caitlin Clark to be a certain type of way and they thought that she was. And so they became Kate McClark fans, assuming that.

• 51:26Speaker 03

  And then they realized like, oh no, she's actually not, she's actually not racist. And so now they have to kind of like backtrack and try to find somebody else that can kind of embody the things that they feel. But yeah, no player should have to deal with that. No player should be in any type of situation where they feel like, you know, their life is in danger or that someone wants to harm them because of the color of their skin or harm them in general. So it's crazy that, that they have to deal with that. And I hope, I hope that the WNBA gets, gets it in order and make sure that they have like things in place because yeah, no one wants to play in a situation like that. I don't think it's fair to the players.

• 52:02Channing Crowder?

  And I believe Jake can whoop some ass too.

• 52:05Speaker 03

  Oh yeah, oh I can.

• 52:06Ryan Clark?

  She got long arms.

• 52:07Speaker 03

  I can, I got one over there, who can? Okay, and she from New Orleans too.

• 52:12Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, yeah, I ain't tripping on her. We ain't tripping on none of that.

• 52:15Channing Crowder?

  Yeah, she go too close to the crowd, ain't nobody talking too nasty to you. What you say? Nothing, I'm fine.

• 52:21Speaker 03

  I know, people be talking crazy and I be hearing them and I stop and I look at them and I be like, that's not really my face, I'm trying to, I'm just kind of laughing right now. And they be like. I ain't say nothing.

• 52:30Ryan Clark?

  You're a little boy me too. Leave her alone, leave her alone, don't say nothing.

• 52:33Speaker 03

  Freddie T do the honors, man.

• 52:35Fred Taylor?

  This is one of my favorite parts of the show.

• 52:38Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 52:38Fred Taylor?

  I get to ask one of the best questions on the show, I think. But throughout your journey, you know, you mentioned it earlier. Delay but not deny. In that, what's been your biggest pivot in life?

• 52:55Speaker 03

  Biggest pivot in life? I'm gonna say a funny one first. My biggest pivot was when I started wearing them dresses and them heels.

• 53:04Ryan Clark?

  Hey, Chan. Chan, we dressed up my little cousin Bree for her prom. Why, no Bree didn't want to wear that.

• 53:11Fred Taylor?

  She snatched it off.

• 53:12Ryan Clark?

  Man. Bree dressed like me, huh?

• 53:16Ryan Clark?

  We shared clothes.

• 53:17Fred Taylor?

  There you go.

• 53:19Speaker 03

  My biggest pivot was when I let that go and I started living my truth, okay? But, but nah, like, I mean, for real, I think that was one of the things that... I said this before in like interviews and stuff, just like coming to the league and like seeing women live their truth. It really gave me the strength to like, to really just not be afraid of it. Coming from such a, like a religious background in the Bahamas and, you know, a Christian family and, you know, feeling like I was going against God or going against my family if I lived my truth. And so for years, I just, I just didn't. When I got to the league and I saw people that were doing it and being successful and having families and being happy and healthy, it kind of, it opened up my eyes and it allowed

• 54:01Speaker 03

  me to really just step out and do that. And so I think my life is definitely better for it. Like when I walk into a room, like, I'm confident in, you know, how I dress, how I look, how I feel, and I know that I'm showing up as me and not, not what other people want me to show up as. And so that's given me a lot of peace, inner peace, a lot of inner joy, and a lot of happiness too. So aside from sports, like that's probably the biggest pivot that I've made in my life.

• 54:27Ryan Clark?

  Oh, that's a wrap. I love that.

• 54:28Fred Taylor?

  Yes, ma'am.

• 54:30Ryan Clark?

  Bro, hey, I know she used to be mad, got to go buy them heels.

• 54:36Speaker 03

  I got on makeup and all like this.

• 54:38Ryan Clark?

  Hey Chad, you already know.

• 54:40Speaker 03

  Appreciate y'all talking.

• 54:41Ryan Clark?

  Put that dress on, he'll be pissed off the whole time.

• 54:47Ryan Clark?

  And then too though, at 6'6", I know it gotta be hard to walk in heels too though.

• 54:51Fred Taylor?

  When you got those KD 17s with Bahamas on the back.

• 54:54Speaker 03

  How did I feel?

• 54:55Fred Taylor?

  Yeah.

• 54:55Speaker 03

  Man, I felt amazing. I felt amazing. I gotta get y'all a pair of them.

• 54:59Ryan Clark?

  We all wanted them.

• 54:59Speaker 03

  Heck yeah.

• 55:00Fred Taylor?

  They are hard.

• 55:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, they tough. I felt great. I just felt good to like, no matter what island you was from, if you had a pair of those shoes, you had something that rep you.

• 55:08Fred Taylor?

  Right, right.

• 55:09Ryan Clark?

  I'm not standing next to it.

• 55:11Channing Crowder?

  Man, we standing next to it. Anybody tall, they would spit me down.

• 55:13Speaker 03

  Hey babe, Jonathan, John John Knowles from Long Island.

• 55:17Ryan Clark?

  Don't get me. And this motherfucker always gonna do that.

• 55:20Channing Crowder?

  Put that on, put that. Little man shoulder hug.

• 55:23Ryan Clark?

  Hey, I'll do like this. Chad, you don't do like that, look.

• 55:27Channing Crowder?

  Come on, little dog.

• 55:28Fred Taylor?

  I know like Shaq did.

• 55:30Ryan Clark?

  Shaq gonna put his elbow on my motherf-

• 55:32Speaker 03

  No way.

• 55:33Ryan Clark?

  I said Shaq, get your goddamn hand off of me.

• 55:37Ryan Clark?

  The, they're funny.

• 55:39Speaker 03

  Appreciate y'all, man.

• 55:40Channing Crowder?

  Appreciate you talking. Congratulations.

• 55:43Ryan Clark?

  Oh, y'all got connections.

• 55:44Fred Taylor?

  Run with it.

• 55:45Speaker 03

  That's what we gotta do, man. Thank y'all so much for having me as a player.

• 55:49Ryan Clark?

  Y'all better tap in this shit though, cause y'all the hunted now.

• 55:51Speaker 03

  Hell yeah, we got you.

• 55:52Ryan Clark?

  Y'all went out and got it.

• 55:53Speaker 03

  Are we gonna be locked in?

• 55:54Fred Taylor?

  Playing in a small market, you gotta stay in they face.

• 55:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 55:57Fred Taylor?

  Don't turn down no deals, make yourself available and go get it. That's the way you stand in front of the camera. Yeah.

• 56:29Speaker 05

  Every game day, you show up for your team. Now, it's your time.

• 56:33Speaker 06

  We go V.

• 56:37Speaker 05

  We go V. Ask your prescriber about Wegovy. Someaglutide injection 2.4mg a GLP-1. Call 1-8334-WEGOVY or visit wegovy.com to view the medication guide and to learn more about Wegovy. Why wait?