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Hosted by Ryan Holiday
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Welcome to the Daily Stoic Podcast, where each day we read a passage of ancient wisdom designed to help you in your everyday life. But on Fridays, we not only read this daily meditation, but I try to answer some questions from listeners and fellow Stoics who are trying to apply this philosophy, whatever it is they happen to do. Sometimes these are from talks. Sometimes these are people who come up to talk to me on the street. Sometimes these are written in or emailed from listeners. But I hope in answering their questions, I can answer your questions, give a little more guidance on this philosophy we're all trying to follow.
We are not in decline.
Marcus Aurelius must have looked around Rome besieged as it was by plagues and unrest and corruption and longed for the old days. Seneca stuck in Nero's court longed for the days of Cato in Cicero, just as Cato himself looked back at the days of his great-grandfather, Cato the Elder. The point is, it's always felt like things are in decline. It's always felt like society is coming apart, that the most, maiorum, is losing its hold. But do you know how many years Rome stood after Marcus? That's even with his terrible son, Commodus, reigning after him? It's 296, almost three centuries. The end of the republican Cato's time was 167 years before Marcus. In the 1600s, as the Puritans fled a plague-ridden
London to the New World, they thought they were living in the end times. And yet, America would still be going 400 years later, and so would England, as bad as things were, as bad as things would get. They are unquestionably, on a whole, much better. Why are they better? Because people made them better. Because not everyone was so cynical or despondent. Because not everyone despaired. Some people chose to imagine a better future, strove to make a better future. Many of those people were Stoics. In the time of Nero, Stoics resisted and fought. In the late 1700s, a group of men steeped in Greek and Roman philosophy, as Tom Ricks details in his wonderful book, First Principles. They sought to form a more perfect union.
Just as fourscore and seven years later, Lincoln would carry on that work. What about you? Have you given up? Have you chosen to see decline as permanent and not temporary? Have you decided that what's happening in the world, in your country, in your neighborhood, is not something that you control? You can look backwards with a sigh or forwards with a clenched jaw. What will it be?
Hey, it's Ryan Holiday. Welcome to another episode of Ask Daily Stoic. You send us your questions at [email protected]. I do my best to answer. Specific questions are best. In-depth is best. We talk about Stoicism, we talk about life, we talk about anything that you guys are struggling with. And yeah, it's fun. Okay, so Al is asking, is he allowed to pursue personal wealth and remain aligned with Stoicism? I think it depends on how and why you're pursuing wealth and success. I mean, the undisputable fact is that many of the Stoics were quite wealthy. Some were quite poor, but Cato was rich, Seneca was rich, Marcus Aurelius was rich. Many of the others were as well.
I think what the Stoics tried to practice towards these things was what they called kind of preferred indifference. So the idea that if you're chasing money because you think money is going to make you happy, if you think chasing money is going to make you important, or it's proof that you're a good person, you're going down the wrong road. If... By pursuing what you love, if by pursuing excellence, if by getting good at what you do, wealth is a byproduct of that, or success is a byproduct, I don't think the Stoics would say you have to turn that down, right? I think Seneca's point was, he's like, sure, it's admirable to see someone, you know,
eating off, you know, sort of earthen dishes, earthenware dishes, but he says, isn't it more admirable to see someone eating off silver dishes and not caring that they're doing that? So his point was, it's actually, if you have money, the real challenge is, or if you've earned money, or you happen to have a lucrative career, whatever it is, isn't it actually more impressive to not need it, right? So his point is that you can have it, but you shouldn't need it. And that's kind of how I think about it. I've been lucky enough to be successful, both in my writing career, as well as in business, and, you know, I feel fortunate to have come from a middle-class family, so I don't have like college loan debt or anything like that.
But I also, that's not what I think defines me as a person, that's not proof of my worth. And actually, I'm somewhat leery of like obscene or extreme wealth, because I understand the temptation or the corruptiveness that can come along with that. So, Seneca, you know, this is a thing we've talked about before, Seneca would practice poverty as a way of making himself indifferent to his wealth. Marcus Aurelius would sleep on a hard mattress, he would, maybe sold off some of Rome's famous palace furnishings to pay down Rome's debt. The idea was becoming sort of immune to or not needing that wealth. The last thing I would say about Seneca that I think's interesting, he says like, as
long as your money's not stained with blood, like, you're good. And I think that's a great way to think about it. The problem is, Seneca's fortune probably was stained with blood. You can look up what's called the Boudicca Rebellion, which is this sort of interesting rabbit hole with Seneca, he was partly responsible for the British colony rebelling against Rome, but also he got his money working through Nero. So, you know, making your money, becoming rich by being a drug dealer, I don't think is the same thing as say like becoming rich because you're, you know, the car dealership you started has gone on to be successful or, you know, the, the, the invention that you have which improved the world also happened to enrich you in the process. So I think how you get your money, but more importantly, the relationship you have to
that money is really what answers that question, but really good one.
Dmitri asks, who are some famous people in history that have practiced Stoicism or had a resemblance of a Stoic mindset without even knowing what Stoicism is? You know, it's interesting and I feel like that's what I try to do in my books. I'm, I'm, but in case it's not clear, I'm not saying that Thomas Edison was a practitioner of Stoicism. I'm saying that when his factory burned down and he embraced that sort of amor fati and rebuilt it, he was being a Stoic. I'm definitely not saying Erwin Rommel, the Nazi general was a Stoic. I think, you know, the, the cause that he fought for was abhorrent, but he, he, he proved an idea I was talking about in an isolated case in the book. And so this is why when you see the Stoics talk about Alexander the Great or different
philosophers or different generals who didn't agree with them, they're looking at, at the attitude, not the allegiance of the person. And so I think that's really important. So if you see someone who's behaving stoically or embracing, you know, a Stoic mindset in a specific scenario, like support them, praise them for it, you know, be a fan of it. They don't, they don't actually have to be a believer in what you believe. I think there's a sort of a Stoic approach to Obama's mentality. Again, if you put politics aside, he was very difficult to ruffle. He didn't get upset. He endured a lot of crap. You know, he, he sort of, he stuck with it. He, he had that even keel that I think is key to the Stoic mentality.
And that's why I tell, you know, the story of the. Of his famous speech when he decided to see this sort of teachable moment with the Reverend Wright scandal in the 2008 election. So I am as fascinated as you, Dimitri, with examples of people who are proving the Stoic principles, whether they know them or not. You know, I think the New England Patriots in the Atlanta Super Bowl, 28 to 3, sort of deciding to see like, you know, 28 to 3 as just the score, as a thing they could inch their way back from, to me was the embodiment of Stoicism. Now, some of the controversies involving the team, some of the egos involving the team, you know, the football itself might not be at all aligned with Stoicism, but that doesn't
mean that we can't pick and choose and learn these lessons, or extract some lessons, or extract admirable mindsets or approaches from these people in an interesting way. Fabrizio is saying, "What's my opinion of the people, organizations, and articles that are saying Stoicism is not good or not working?" I don't care, like, I really don't give a shit. Because why would I, right? Like, I mean, sometimes I'm interviewed for these pieces, they want to ask my opinion, and I do try to, you know, explain myself to someone who's asking in good faith.
But, you know, when people have an axe to grind, when people want to criticize, like, mostly I just see this as evidence that it is working, or that it is having an impact. I definitely don't spend a lot of time trying to convince people who are not interested in what I'm doing, why they should be interested in what I'm doing, or the benefits of Stoicism. I do say I find some of the Silicon Valley criticism of Stoicism that, like, "Oh, this is, you know, just a bunch of guys, like, you know, wealthy people, you know, using this philosophy in the wrong..." Like, what would you rather have computer programmers be reading, other than a philosophy that preaches courage, justice, moderation, and wisdom?
Like, or, you know, it'd be like, "Oh, can you believe people on Wall Street are studying ancient philosophy? Why is that a bad thing?" To me, that's a good thing. And I certainly...
Think the criticism that my books are, you know, not as good as the real Stoics to also be equally ridiculous, because of course they're not. My books are supposed to be an entry point into Stoicism. So if people want to be interested in Stoicism purely from a self-help standpoint, and that's what gets them started, and I think that's what a lot of these trend pieces are sort of tackling, why would I complain about that? Why would I fault them? I think we should accept people where they are, we should encourage them to start to go down a road, rather than mock them or criticize them for not being as, you know, advanced as us. And so, yeah, that's sort of my pro... If there's... If someone... What I've not seen, unfortunately, what I'd love to have a discussion about, is some
smart discussions about what we dislike in Stoicism, where it falls short, where other philosophies have things to add. That's the kind of conversation I would have. Unfortunately, that's rarely the one that we get. Rochelle is saying, "In the last year, he became responsible... He or she became responsible for making decisions about my dad's senior care. Growing up, he was not an engaged parent. He rarely told me no. He rarely helped or encouraged me. He often says he was glad that I did not require much from him. Now, they're responsible for his health and safety, and the challenge is to not fall into a reap what you sow mindset, which helps no one. Any word of advice?" I would encourage you to look up a passage in Epictetus.
He says, you know, "Every situation has two handles." And he's specifically talking about, you know, a troublesome brother. And he says, you know, "You could pick up the handle that, you know, my brother's an asshole, my brother's a bad person, my brother has done this to me, my brother means this." Or you could go, "Hey, this is my brother. We're related. We're obligated to each other. You know, I'm gonna be the best brother that I can be, even if they weren't a good brother to me." And Epictetus is saying, "What's a better handle to grab this situation from?" I know we've done an email about this, but I love the line, speaking of brothers, from Bruce Springsteen's song, "A Highway Patrolman," where he says, you know, "Sometimes when it's your brother, you look the other way." And I think Cato had that relationship with...
With his brother, Marcus Aurelius lost his father and his mother pretty early. So he had his adopted parents who were flawed and not great, but he found what he loved in them, what he could learn from them, and he tried to always honor them and do right by them. And so, look, I don't know the specifics of your situation with your father. I'm fortunate not to be at that place where I'm taking care of my parents for health or financial reasons, you know, yet, who knows how things are gonna go. But, but I think you should just think about like, are you being the person that you want to be? That's how I would sort of make my decisions. Not, is this what my dad deserves?
But like, am I living up to what I say is important? Right? Don't be abused by a person, don't be taken advantage of, you know, but also think like, you know, what is, what is the right thing to do here? What's the honorable thing to do here? What's the thing I'm gonna be proud of? What's the thing I'm gonna be able to tell my children or, you know, other people about in the future? And I think that will help kind of prevent you from either being petty or holding on to grudges or, you know, trying to sort of project some very real and reasonable childhood issues you have with this person on them now as an old man. One of the, one of the things I heard that's good advice, I tried to think about this with my parents, they were like, try not to think about them as the people they were
growing up, but just think about them as old people you're not related to. And when it's an old person, you're forgiving, you're kind, you know, you're patient, you're, you help more than you otherwise would. So just maybe just thinking about your dad as like how you would help an old neighbor or, or, you know, an old uncle might help you get past some of those issues as well. So that's another episode of Ask Daily Stoic. This is always fun. We love your questions. Again, these are getting really specific and great, so keep firing them our way and we appreciate all the support.
That's my Memento Mori coin. I think about it all the time. I'm playing with it on my desk right now. It's something I carry always. It's probably the thing I get asked about the most when I bump into people in public. It's just been a game changer for me. I have a bunch of different Memento Mori reminders, of course, but if you want to get this one, which we make here in the US in a mint in Minnesota that's been in business since 1882, you can check it out in the Daily Stoic store, or if you're in Bastrop, you can stop by my bookstore here, The Painted Porch on Main Street, where we sell them as well. It's a game changer. So check it out.
Page updated September 29, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated
