Stephen Graham

Stephen Graham didn't think he'd know the likes of Robert DeNiro and Bruce Springsteen but a lot of talent and hard work has given him the life he couldn't even have dreamed of. He joins Josh to talk about his journey from a working class kid to the heights of film and TV. UPCOMING EVENT! Maya Hawke -- February 10th in NYC -- Tickets here! SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS! Quince -- Go to Quince.com/happysadco for 365 day returns and free shipping! Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Happy Sad Confused patreon here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! We've got discount codes to live events, merch, early access, exclusive episodes, video versions of the podcast, and more! To watch episodes of Happy Sad Confused, subscribe to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Josh's youtube channel here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

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• 0:29Speaker 01

  Look, I'm a kid from a normal background, you know what I mean? I'm getting on a plane, going to New York, going to Martin Scorsese's house, meeting Robert De Niro. I mean, come on, what's going on? It's mental.

• 0:41Speaker 02

  Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, Sad, Confused begins now.

• 0:48Josh Horowitz?

  Hey guys, I'm Josh and welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Today's main event is Mr. Stephen Graham, a leading man, a character actor, a guy that can do virtually anything. This is a fun one, a great storyteller, a great actor, a first time guest on Happy, Sad, Confused. Before we get to Stephen though, a couple things to mention. As always, we're churning out great conversation, hopefully after great conversation, and there's a lot to enjoy on our Patreon page if you want to support what we do here. That helps us make more, so if you can, go over to patreon.com/happy/sadconfused. There are different tiers at different levels, hopefully something for everybody there. But we offer tons of cool stuff, early access, discount codes to live events, exclusive

• 1:31Josh Horowitz?

  merch, autographed posters, that, and much, much more. Speaking of the live events, we have a cool one, March 20th with Nathan Lane, star of stage and screen, first time guest on Happy, Sad, Confused. If you're in New York City around then, come on out, say hi. It's gonna be at Symphony Space, a beautiful theater on the Upper West Side, and there are lots more live events coming. Stay tuned, watch this space and watch the Patreon space for more announcements. Okay, main event. Stephen Graham, you know from a thousand different things. I don't even know where to begin. His work with Shane Meadows, This is England, his work with Martin Scorsese, whether it's The Irishman, Gangs of New York, Boardwalk Empire.

• 2:15Josh Horowitz?

  This guy's always working. Peaky Blinders, the show, he's gonna be in the movie. He's in the new Springsteen movie that's coming out later this year. He's always in high demand and justifiably so because he kind of can do anything. He's also, by the way, and you'll hear in this conversation, very much responsible for our beloved Jodie Comer's ascent, spotting her talent very early on. So just a good dude who loves movies as much as I think I do and all of you guys watching or listening. So I think you're gonna really love hearing from him. His enthusiasm is palpable and clearly just a good guy. If anything, this is just one of those conversations where I wish we had three hours because there's a lot, we barely touched on a few of his projects.

• 2:59Josh Horowitz?

  So like, there's gonna be a lot more, hopefully more conversations with Stephen. Want to mention though, his two current projects, check out if you are a fan. A Thousand Blows, which is on Hulu in the States, on Disney Plus, elsewhere, comes from Stephen Knight, of course, of Peaky Blinders fame, and is a real fascinating story taking place in the 1880s in London, with Stephen as a bare knuckle boxer. Yeah. Intense stuff, but really well done. And then Adolescents, talk about well done. This is a four part series on Netflix coming in mid-March. Really juicy material, shot in single takes each episode.

• 3:38Josh Horowitz?

  Amazing. About a family, a son who has been accused of murder at his elementary school, his primary school. So intense stuff, but very well done. Great acting throughout and great, you know, intense, smart filmmaking. So put those both on your list, Adolescents and A Thousand Blows. And in the meantime, enjoy this chat with truly one of our greats working today, Mr. Stephen Graham. Stephen Graham's on the podcast. This is a gentleman that went from being like, oh, he's, wait, I recognize that guy to being, oh, he's that guy for me and many, many people. He's a very busy man. Thank you so much for taking the time today to catch up. I really appreciate it.

• 4:22Speaker 01

  Thanks for having me, Josh. Thank you very much.

• 4:25Josh Horowitz?

  So we were just talking about the workload, the good stuff. I mean, you have not one but two great shows to talk about right now. It does feel like, I mean, looking at the resume and you've been, you've been working for a bit. There's a strong work ethic to Stephen Graham. Is that, is that something that's been there from the start? Where does that come from?

• 4:44Speaker 01

  Um, I think that kind of, you know, that comes from my upbringing. Uh, you know, I'm a working class lad from a council estate from a block of flats in a place called Kirby. Do you know what I mean? Um, and kind of that, that fulfillment of the dream that I had when I was a young lad who always wanted to be an actor, do you know what I mean? But by certain, the, the kind of environment where I come from, it's, it's kind of not perceived as something that is achievable. However, I was very lucky. There was a wonderful man who lived across the road called Drew Schofield, who was an actor and was on the telly in, in a great program that I used to watch when I was a young lad called Scully.

• 5:24Speaker 01

  So what kind of happened to me from an early age was I saw that it was achievable because Drew was doing it. And he lived across the road from my nanny and he was on the telly. And seeing Drew as a role model, as an actor who showed that it was achievable for me, you know? And I've always been of that philosophy. If you can see it, you can do it. Um, and then it's for me, it's always, Josh, if I'm completely honest, it's always about the script and the project, you know? The script and the director. Um, and we've, me and Hannah have been very fortunate where we've managed to carve some really nice productions out of late. So it's, yeah, it's wonderful. It's wonderful.

• 5:56Josh Horowitz?

  I, I love to hear you talk about sort of like seeing early on, like an example of what. What it could be and seeing someone like Drew because like your name has actually come up on this podcast quite a bit from a number of actors, most significantly, I think of Jodie Comer, who's been a frequent guest on Happy Sad Confused and she is always very open and talking about, I mean, we, you know, who knows, it might have happened in a different way, but you, you were the one that kind of really connected her very early on. So do we have you to thank for Jodie Comer's career, Stephen?

• 6:27Speaker 01

  Yes, very sweet of Jodie. She's wonderful. She's like my little sister. And that's very, very lovely what she says, you know, I do believe, hopefully, no matter what her talent would have shown through. But in for that particular instance, we were doing a little program called The Good Cock. I think it was on BBC back in the day. I think she may have been 17, maybe 18 at the time, possibly. And we had two scenes and, you know, I met her on the day and was like, hello, I'm Stephen. And my character was kind of a horrible man, kind of very grotesque, you know what I mean? And it was kind of, and he, he was meant to grab hold of it in a certain area. And, and I just, I wanted to make sure, this was before the days of

• 7:11Josh Horowitz?

  Intimacy coordinators and that

• 7:13Speaker 01

  Yes, yeah, before all of that time. You know, and I just said to Jodie, look, I want to make sure that you're comfortable. Is it okay if I put my hand there and the camera will think it's there? And she was like, yeah. And she was really sweet and really lovely. And I was like, okay, I just want to make sure you're comfortable and you feel safe. And then, you know, what I'm about to do, but just let's make sure that you're fine with it and you're happy. And she was like, yeah, yeah, not a problem. We had a really nice little conversation. And then we rehearsed the scene. And as soon as we rehearsed the scene, I just went, see, I've just been working with another young actor on Ashley Walter's piece that I think I actually, I'm doing something for Ashley at the moment. Ashley's director in a film and I worked with a young actor on that and

• 7:58Speaker 01

  First and foremost, I think some people get a bit freaked out occasionally, sometimes with me in rehearsals. Because I'm a fan. I love acting. I'm an acting fan. So when I'm in a rehearsal process, I'm kind of fifty percent the character. I'm fifty percent Steven. So if you do something that excites me, I'm like, wow, that's brilliant. You're all lovely. And people kind of go, what, what's, where's he at? Um, and Jodie did that. And I just remember thinking. She is unbelievable. She's absolutely fantastic. The way she dived straight into that moment, um. And I was a plain, like I said, a kind of gruesome man, but you can't, personally, I feel that you can't play status. Status has to be given to you by the other actors, you know what I mean?

• 8:40Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 8:42Speaker 01

  Um, and Eddie Marsden does that beautifully and amazingly in a film called Gangsta Number One. With, uh, Paul Bettany, and a, a, a scene in the kitchen. So she, she tapped straight into that kind of. Quality and I was just blown away by it. And then I just, I asked her a couple of questions afterwards and, you know, I just said, who's. Who's your agent? What kind of work have you been going up for? And she said, not a lot. And she said, the quality of one or two things and no disrespect to the people that do them jobs. I just thought she was, she was capable of a lot more.

• 9:11Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 9:12Speaker 01

  And I had a word with my agent and then I just, you know, I said, you need to take this girl on. She's phenomenal. And Jodie was actually, I phoned Jodie. And she was on the train going to London for an audition. And I said, don't go for that audition. Go and meet my agent. And she was like, well, what do you mean? And I was like, trust me, honestly, trust me. If you, if you, if you trust me at all, trust, do me this one thing. Go and meet my agent. Don't go for that audition. And she did. And she met Jane and Jane fell in love with it. And the rest is history.

• 9:40Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, talk about like a generational talent. I'm sure you saw her on stage and Primafashi and like all the stuff she's done. Like it's, it's just next level. So. You have a career as a talent scout, uh, if the acting thing doesn't work out is what I'm saying.

• 9:52Speaker 01

  The nice one, Josh. Yeah, I love that. Yeah, yeah.

• 9:55Josh Horowitz?

  So you refer a bit to your upbringing. What did, what did friends and family make of? Young Steven. I, I take it you were, I mean, were you outgoing? Did you have kind of a performative gene that was very obvious from the start?

• 10:08Speaker 01

  No, not really. Um, I come from a very big family, lots of cousins, uh, lots of aunties and lots of uncles. Uh, I think my, my mom is from a family of ten. Uh, so there was a very big family. Uh, and one of the key things was.

• 10:24Speaker 01

  Having the ability to make my nana laugh. Once I knew I could make my nana laugh, that was my little way in, do you know what I mean? And I used to do some crazy impressions, people like Margaret Thatcher and Idi Amin. Don't ask me where these noises, these voices came from, but that was the kind of thing I used to do. Um, and I'd make me nana a jam booty, because me and my mum lived with my grandma for a while. And I'd make my nana a jam booty and I'd come in and I'd do all different silly voices and stuff. Um, and I think that was possibly one of the beginnings of, oh, oh, I can make people smile and, you know, this, I can make my nana laugh. And then it was just kind of at school, um, being at, being doing at the school.

• 11:04Speaker 01

  What was really beautiful was I went to a lovely, lovely junior school called Overdale. Um, and we had a wonderful headmaster, an amazing headteacher called Mr. Facke. And what he used to do was each class would do a performance like once every three or four months. So every Friday in assembly, we used to have assembly every Friday, well, we had it every day but Friday. Each different, a different class within the whole school would be performing. And he, he, he saw it as a way of, you know, young kids being able to express themselves. Um, that kind of getting over fears and, you know, that kind of insecurities that we have and shyness. And it was a beautiful learning tool that we had within that school.

• 11:47Speaker 01

  And that was the moment where we did a play then, we did a play called Treasure Island. And I, and I played Jim Hawkins and it was Drew Schofield came to watch the show. Uh, you know, like I said, Drew was a huge star at the time in, in many ways and a wonderful actor and a beautiful man. And he lived across the road from my grandma, like I said, um, and he came, thank you. He came to watch the play because his nephew was in it. And after the performance, he said to my mum and dad, your son's really talented. Um, I think he, you know, he, he's, he's got, he's got a lot of talent. Maybe it should be something he should look at. And we did, and we put our names down and we went to the Everyman Youth Theatre. That was the first kind of thing I did, but my mum was always so supportive.

• 12:33Speaker 01

  And you know, I'm pops, my, my, my, my dad, they were so supportive from the very beginning. Completely, uh, and I've said this before, to the extent when I was about fifteen and I'd been going everywhere, and I said to my dad. They, I think I wanna do this now, dad. I think this is what I wanna do. And he was like, okay, come on, let's go. And we went, you, you may remember, Josh, you might be of, of a certain age. Do you remember video shops like Blockbuster and things like that?

• 12:57Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 12:58Speaker 01

  Well, remember going to Blockbuster and, and you'd be in there for like two hours.

• 13:01Josh Horowitz?

  My happy place, wandering those aisles for hours, yeah.

• 13:04Speaker 01

  And we, we got it just to choose a film. You'd be there for hours, wouldn't you? You'd read the back, you'd like look at the fault. Yeah, it was, it was amazing. And me and my dad went to the video shop. This was even pre-Blockbuster, I think, um, and we got a couple of films. He got The Deer Hunter. Taxi Driver and The Godfather. And he was like, right, if we're gonna do it, we're gonna watch these. This is the films that we're gonna watch. And I showed it, I was done properly. Um, and that was kind of how my, I suppose, love affair for acting started, but also my appreciation. For those great films, you know what I mean? Like, and then, and then I think a couple of weeks later, we watched like A Razor Head and, uh.

• 13:41Josh Horowitz?

  You're saying all the right filmmakers. You're doing, you're speaking my language. You're, you're doing good.

• 13:45Speaker 01

  It's really sour. We watched, we watched, I remember watching Yo Jimbo going, oh, my god, dad, this is unbelievable.

• 13:51Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 13:51Speaker 01

  And that's kind of how it began, if I'm honest with you, Josh.

• 13:54Josh Horowitz?

  You, I mean, you truly, I mean, you are carrying on the lineage by the, the caliber filmmakers you're working with, and they obviously gravitate towards you as much as you gravitate towards them. So I, and I love to hear the enthusiasm. You are as much a fan as you are a practitioner of all this. And that's, it's very, uh, very endearing, um.

• 14:11Speaker 01

  It can, it can be strange. Don't get me wrong. It can be strange on set when, cause when we did it, I know we're gonna talk about that.

• 14:17Josh Horowitz?

  That's all good, yeah.

• 14:18Speaker 01

  But there's a particular scene, uh, but there's a particular moment within the whole thing. Um, and I hadn't really seen him until rehearsals. Um, and it's one of the lads who plays the police officer, and he's going through the procedural elements of like, right, can I have your, your first finger, second finger? That, and just his whole demeanor. And as we were in rehearsal and Jack was there as well, the writer, Jack got, Jack seen me do this and. And Phil, our wonderful director as well, and Jack, the amazing writer. And I just kinda went, wow, you're brilliant, huh? Yeah. And he looked at me and he, he got really shy. Um, and I was like, sorry, man, I just think you're amazing, just what you're doing. And he was like, oh. And then I didn't realise until.

• 15:00Speaker 01

  Uh, like a day later, Joe, Joe Johnson, our beautiful, wonderful producer, she said to me, you do realize that you talking to him like that blew his mind. And I was like, what, what do you mean, Joe? What are you on about? And she said, well, I had a really lovely conversation with him the other week, um, when we started and you're the reason why he's an actor today. And I was like, what? No chance. And she was like, honestly, this is England. He watched it. And he was like, he saw someone who spoke similar to him, who was from a similar background and he's, he's followed your career. And I can't quite get over that sometimes, Josh. It blows my mind. You know what I mean? It really does.

• 15:38Josh Horowitz?

  Well, you're having, I'm, I'm sure the reverse of that working with, you know, Pacino calling you out and that kind of thing. And that's, you know, growing up, watching all the Loomet films, I'm sure. And then to be a equal at the table with him and him saying flattering things again must be mind blowing.

• 15:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, completely.

• 16:03Josh Horowitz?

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• 17:27Josh Horowitz?

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• 18:10Josh Horowitz?

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• 19:30Josh Horowitz?

  We'll circle back to the early goings because I do want to give love to both of these projects. And you referenced, let's start with Adolescents because I was telling you before, this is an ambitious, really fascinating piece of work. And both of these projects you're promoting today, actually, I don't know if it's a coincidence, but they are projects that you are very creatively, you know, a part of behind and in front of the camera. Is that something that's become a priority in recent years to kind of have a seat at the table as a writer or executive producer on projects like A Thousand Blues and Adolescents?

• 20:00Speaker 01

  It was, it was never, great question. It was never really the aim. It was just kind of the way things worked. We, we set up our little production company, me and Hannah, I think it was just before COVID. And it was kind of, we wanted to, to be a part of trying to create stories that we don't see that often, or, you know, maybe that people are not really, not represented as much, so to speak. And, you know, and I'm not, look, I'm not standing on speakers corner and I'm not waving a flag and I'm not, I'm not on, you know, I'm not shouting from my soapbox, but that kind of working class stories or people from minorities, I feel that sometimes those

• 20:45Speaker 01

  stories are overlooked and we don't, we don't nurture those stories enough or we don't spend enough time really cultivating those stories by producing writers from those backgrounds or giving them the opportunity to be able to tell stories that they can, you know, identify with and represent and show a different side to these people. So it was kind of, we, we set it up to, to hopefully just be able to be a part of the process of telling some stories. And it just kind of happened the way it did, first of all.

• 21:19Speaker 01

  We got involved with Boiling Point, the, the, the film and the TV series, which, which happened really organically. Do you know what I mean? Completely organically. And then after that point, um, A Thousand Blows was kind of brewing in the, in the background. It, it, it started from, um, I, I, I did a wonderful series that I really love, a little comedy thing called Cold Four O Four with Danny Mays and it was br- it was brilliant. We had such a great time. But Tom and Sam, um, who were our partners on A Thousand Blows, who were from Water and Power. Tom approached me on set one day and said, look, you know, we've got this possible

• 21:58Speaker 01

  thing we'd like to develop and we'd really love you and Hannah to be a part of it, your production company, but also you as one of the actors, because we've got a photograph and we also have three paragraphs about these people who existed at the time. And the photograph, and I was like, okay, don't worry, yeah, send it to Tom, please, and Hannah will have a look. Because that's my thing to everyone. She gets sent so many emails, because I go, yeah, sure, send it, and Hannah will have a look. So, so she sifts through thousands of things, bless her, um, thankfully, unfortunately. But, um, Tom sent it and and the photograph arrived and Hannah went to me, wow, look at this. And the photograph of Hezekiah, I have never seen, especially in that, in that time period, a photograph

• 22:40Speaker 01

  of a black man who looked so regal, so elegant, so graceful, so full of poise and so full of dignity and yet seemed to capture the essence of humility as well. I just, I was intrigued with that story straight away. We both were, we were like, wow, how's he got to this position? What's happened here? How's this man, you know, what, what, what, what's, what is this story? Um, and then that's where Hannah said, I know who's gonna tell this. And I was like, who? And she said, Steve Knight, who you know is a prolific writer and wonderful. And I was like, no, don't be silly. And she was like, I'm telling, I was like, no, no chance. And she went, when I'm talking to Julie, who's his assistant, about you, and they want you to do Peaky Blinders, and you know, we've already been discussing the character.

• 23:25Speaker 01

  Cause I like to get as much information as I can about the character. So Steve has given Julie a load of stuff to give to Hannah, and that's how we kind of developed this relationship, them two had. And then Hannah sent it and she was like, I know he's gonna love it. She sent it and I swear to God, but in three days, he sent a wonderful email back saying, I wanna be a part of this. I wanna tell this story. Let's set up a Zoom. So we had the kind of context of Hezekiah and that story of a man who came from Jamaica. Right. Rebellion of Maroon Bay and things like that to try and, um, he came with this dream and this aim and this desire to be a lion tamer. And he ended up falling into the world of bare knuckle fighting, then he became a boxer.

• 24:06Speaker 01

  Um, and in the great respects, you, you can't, Steve always says something which really sticks with me is you can't write better than fiction sometimes. Right. Because it's there, do you know what I mean? It's historical content. And then we also had the, the two brothers, Sugar and Treacle, who I play and so does the wonderful James Nelson Joyce, who's another lad from Liverpool. Who I kind of got with my agents as well, the way I helped with spotting the gorgeous Jody, maybe I did a little bit as that as well. That was a really interesting story. We met in, we met James in, and, and I know there's many chicken shops out there, but we met James, we said Nando's.

• 24:46Speaker 01

  Years and years ago, and he came up to me and Hannah and he was like, I'm a big, you know, I'm a big fan, Stephen. I went to college or one of the reasons why I was an actor. And I was like, oh, nice one, lad. Thank you very much. And we took a photo. And Hannah said, give you the email and we'll keep in touch. And he did. Um, and then the next minute we were on time together. I didn't realise he'd auditioned and he got the part and I was like, you're, you're the kid from Nando's. Nando's guy. And he was like, hey, yeah, that's me. That's me. And I was like, oh, wow, mate. And we kept in touch and I just thought he was a wonderful talent. So again, I had a conversation with Jane and then he ended up going with Jane and stuff and things have progressed. And now, you know, he's forged out his own wonderful career. He's doing brilliant. He's just been the lead in a big BBC production. Um.

• 25:29Speaker 01

  And I knew he was the right person for my brother for this, but he still had to go through the audition process.

• 25:34Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 25:35Speaker 01

  Do you know what I mean? We had lots of people in and and he he managed to get that role. But we only had these two paragraphs of Treacle and Sugar and obviously Hezekiah. And then Steve, which is the genius of Steve Knight, he kind of, he had this wonderful idea as well to bring Mary Car and the Forty Elephants into it because he was looking for the right vehicle to tell this story. So we had these kind of, this trifecta of these three fantastic characters who existed in the time and and walked the cobbles and the streets of this London that we're talking about. And the genius that is Steve, he created this wonderful world and just put them in the environment.

• 26:15Speaker 01

  And then he found stories from newspapers and from historical content that these people were involved in all were similar. Other people may have been involved in similar stories and he just combined them together and created this wonderful world, which is a thousand loads.

• 26:31Josh Horowitz?

  I was gonna say, it ha- it has a a bit of that that kind of vibe of, you know, Peaky, of course, even I think of Gangs of New York, honestly, kind of like that, kind of like, this feels like science fiction, it's so like alien, but it's so specific. And as you said, it's it's so, it has to be true or elements have to be true because who would make this, these disparate elements and combine them in this way? Um, I I've seen the first couple of episodes, you have quite an entrance. At first I thought I was seeing your buddy, Tom Hardy, from the back. It was like Ba- Ba- Bane was entering the building.

• 27:00Speaker 01

  Oh, wow, nice one, yeah. Yeah, that was, that was a hell of an experience in itself, do you know what I mean?

• 27:06Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, I mean, are you the type of actor? I mean, you you're you're obviously in hell of a shape for this one, like, I mean, that builds from the outside in, that like physicality, how your your your exterior informs the characters, that important to you generally, or specifically in this case, I would imagine it's important?

• 27:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, um, yeah, you're right, especially in this case, because we had six months. So primarily what I wanted to do was to get in the best shape I possibly could, um, to look like the man who who I was playing, do you know what I mean? Because for me. Sugar is very much kind of bygones of age gone by, do you know what I mean, those kind of men. Um, and what I did was, you know, I'm, I'm not the tallest, so I'm short and stocky and we wanted to have that kind of like little bulldog element to it.

• 27:50Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 27:51Speaker 01

  Um, and for the physical aspect of the style, I concentrated on how we would make him as a, as a, what his style would be as a fighter. Um, so with my boxing coach Graham, we, he was a good friend, we, we really worked hard on kind of that Mike Tyson element. Of like body shots and great hooks and uppercuts, but then we also watched a lot of Lenny McLean, who was a bare knuckle fighter. Um, and was a big Bruce role of a man, and we kind of combined both of his, both of their styles to create this kind of fighting content. And my, my trainer, Rob, was fantastic, absolutely fantastic. He was brilliant. He, he honestly, God, he pushed me and he pushed me and.

• 28:33Speaker 01

  And we wanted to reach this physical condition, which wasn't like a normal, it's not, it's not a modern physique. Because it's much more kind of, you know, shoulders and traps and, and arms. That's what we were going for, that kind of. Man who lifts beer barrels and, you know, and, and, and hammers and, and he's just, just a worker, a really hard worker. That's developed this great physique. Um, and kind of that was how we worked on it. Normally I. One of my great things that I, that I love to tap into a character with is the shoes. I love to find his shoes because they can alter, they can alter the walk completely, do you know what I mean? And, and that for me, the physicality aspect of a character is always important. I always like to change my walk.

• 29:16Speaker 01

  Um, or find the walk of, of the, of the man who I'm playing. To the extent where, you know, sometimes I'll do Hannah Zedden and the kids, I'll go, right, watch, watch, they'll be watching the film and I'll go, pause it, pause it. I go, what, right, this is the walk, what do you think? And I'll turn, they're like, yeah, dad, great, go on. And then they'll kind of, and I go, no, no, no, is it good? Do you like it? And they're like, yeah, yeah, no, it's great. So that's kind of how I've always based my characters and found my characters. And then I work, me internal work with, you know, the director and with the other actors that I'm sharing the scenes with.

• 29:47Josh Horowitz?

  Right. Amazing. Okay, let's give a little love also, Adolescence. This is a four-part series for Netflix that you play a dad of a kid in school who's accused of murdering a classmate. And as I said to you before, I mean, this is like, this is, this is meaty, real, I mean, amazing acting throughout. And not to mention, the ambition of what you're doing here, each episode is a oner, is a single shot. I don't know if you're stitching stuff, or if it's a true oner.

• 30:15Speaker 01

  Not at all, honestly.

• 30:16Josh Horowitz?

  I believe it. Amazing. That's an accomplishment. So talk to me a little bit about, and you co-wrote this one, the high-wire act of being, I mean, I feel tension watching halfway through this. You're working with some young performers. My God, the pressure on them. Like, no one wants to drop the ball 27 minutes into this extraordinary oner. But like, what's it like, what's it like for you, even for you? Are you feeling the pressure? Are you feeling it for your performers? What's, what's it like?

• 30:44Speaker 01

  Do you know what, Josh? And I don't, and I don't mean to sound, I don't want to sound pretentious in any way, shape or form, but it's possibly the most beautiful, wonderful way of working ever for any actor. Because what it, what it does is it combines both disciplines, I think, uniquely, which I have never had the experience of being able to do that. So it captures and encompasses that, that truth and reality and that instantaneous kind of in-the-moment response of theatre.

• 31:14Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 31:15Speaker 01

  Do you know what I mean? Because it's live. We're there, we're in it right there and then. But it also has that beauty of filmmaking, because that minimalistic naturalism, you know, because you don't have to project up to people on row Z, seven stories high. You don't have to do that. But you're, you still have that same feeling internally, and that excitement, and that kind of driving force that you do when you're on stage. And also, in the same respect, we are a company, we're all together. So we all, you know, everybody's looking after each other. Because nobody, as you rightly said, and I'm glad you said that, I said that, I said, look. When we, I'd be like, none of us, there's no poor fucker on the ski

• 31:58Josh Horowitz?

  Oh no, you can, it's okay.

• 31:59Speaker 01

  Not one of us wants to be the one that drops the ball, do you know what I mean? Not one of us. So let's all look after each other, let's all help each other and let's go on this mission together.

• 32:08Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, doesn't matter where you are on the call sheet, if you're number 12 or number 1, if you fuck up, you're fucking up for everybody.

• 32:13Speaker 01

  Exactly, and that's, that's the thing, do you know what I mean? Look, and I managed to, I managed to kind of, I, I'd always give a little rally call at the beginning of every, do you know what I mean? Every day, um, well, after we'd finished, because what, what's beautiful about it is with the processes. We have, we have three weeks, so we spend a week rehearsing, which is just Phil and the actors. Um, and what was really lucky, we had both writers, we had Jack and myself on set for that whole first week. So we can really look at it and we can really iron everything out and we can, we can focus more on nuances or, you know, if certain things aren't working with any elements of the script, we can work on that.

• 32:56Speaker 01

  And we can find a way that we're, we're all comfortable with it and we're, we're saving the story. So we have a whole week of rehearsing it, which is brilliant, it's absolutely fantastic. You really get to feel it and we really get to explore it as actors. And then the second week, we rehearse with Matt, our amazing D O P. Who is just a genius, he's an absolute genius. Him and his team are absolutely phenomenal, phenomenal, Josh, honestly. You know, they go from having electric cars and cranes to attaching to a drone. It's unbelievable.

• 33:31Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 33:31Speaker 01

  That he did. And his, his capabilities and his talent is exceptional. Um, so we spend a week choreographing the, the camera moves with, with Matt. And all of us then, you know, so it's never, they, Matt and Phil work out kind of what is going to happen. But then in the same respect, when we're in a room, Matt never tells you where to go or what to do. Because that's the joy and the beauty of Matt, he accommodates the camera to your movements as well. Um, so then we do that for, like, we, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, we do that right through to Thursday. Taking it nice and slow and steady and, you know, getting it to a really good point. And then on the Friday, we just, we just have a go. We literally do a dress rehearsal, we get in costume.

• 34:15Speaker 01

  Um. We see how it's gonna work and we we do we do a take uh um which is for free. And we just see how it goes um and then we'll have notes and stuff like that or you know we'll iron out the things that don't quite work. And then when it comes to the week of shooting, we have, we do two takes a day. So you get ready, you do one take in the morning, you have lunch, you do the, and then you do one take in the afternoon. Um. And that's kind of the process and the excitement is, like I said, those live performances. To the extent where in episode two, cause you'd have seen episode two.

• 34:50Josh Horowitz?

  I've seen that one, yeah, yeah.

• 34:51Speaker 01

  Well, episode two, we got to, I think because we had a couple of stops. So initially you're supposed to do maybe ten takes throughout the whole week. We had a couple of stops and a couple of camera glitches and things and you know cars not starting or something like that. So we had, we ended up getting to take thirteen uh for episode and and also what you have. Wonderful Toby from Netflix, who's one of our exec producers, Toby came up with an idea on the Wednesday. On the Wednesday, bear in mind, Josh, Wednesday of shooting, bear in mind, Toby had this genius idea. But on the Wednesday of shooting, he said, oh, wouldn't it be really great if we, you know, as we fly up in the sky, we run and we could see Eddie again.

• 35:34Speaker 01

  And it was like, what? He's like, yeah, it'd be great that. Do you think we could do it? We're like, oh, for fuck.

• 35:40Josh Horowitz?

  Where were you on Monday? Yeah.

• 35:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:44Speaker 01

  I'm so, it's like, oh shit, okay, so we had a go. No, it it might have been Tuesday, he said, cause then I think we tried it on Wednesday. Uh. And the wind was not brilliant and then Thursday, so it come down, we we got an alternative. And it comes down, Josh, to the final take, the thirteenth take on the Friday.

• 36:03Josh Horowitz?

  I'm sweating in New York hearing this, yeah.

• 36:05Speaker 01

  And it was, it was amazing because we're all just locked in. That a wonderful Ashley was phenomenal. The kids were unbelievable. Uh. Every one of them, all of them, Hannah, Joe, they were all brilliant. Every single one of them were fantastic. And it just, it just glided and literally when I say glided, to the extent where the drones coming down and I have to get out of the van and it just felt really smooth and. Really nice cohesive and it really it seemed to work beautifully. And then and he went and cut. And it was that, oh, my God. So the take that you see is the very final take we ever did. It was that one chance to get it really right. And that that's what lives on, you see.

• 36:47Josh Horowitz?

  Well, uh, yeah.

• 36:47Speaker 01

  It's a wonderful process and it's the most zen I've ever been as an actor because you're locked in. You're completely locked in.

• 36:54Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, as someone, yeah, who grew up both loving theater, but also on the film side, like watching like De Palma movies and discovering like those amazing wonders and just like what cinema could do. Uh, this checks all the boxes. So congratulations. And yeah, I would imagine that that's like, that's an exhale. That's a beautiful moment when you, when you, uh, when you know you've got it in the can.

• 37:20Speaker 04

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• 37:49Speaker 05

  You've got your favorite blanket, a freshly poured drink and a cold case burning a hole in your streaming queue. You're not just watching true crime. You're running the investigation from the comfort of your couch. Welcome to Murder She Watched. The podcast where we recap, dissect and slightly overanalyze some of the best and craziest true crime documentaries on our favorite streamers. Did the spouse do it? Why is the shady neighbor wearing leather gloves in July? Why did this guy agree to be interviewed in this documentary? We ask the tough questions that you're often just screaming at your TV. So every week we break down the twists, red herrings and absurd documentaries that have kept you up all night.

• 38:33Speaker 05

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• 38:50Josh Horowitz?

  God, there are like literally dozens of movies I'd like to talk to you about, but let me ask you this first, like, when did you exhale and feel like the career was safe? Because I heard you talking even post This Is England, which obviously was a huge one for you, that you still, even post that, the career was in question and you questioned whether you were going to be able to make a go of it, which seems incomprehensible to most, most people, probably.

• 39:14Speaker 01

  Um, yeah, after we finished this scene, and I, you know, I think it was seven or eight months before I got a job. Um, and I think, and I was, I was ready to, to stop acting and, you know, I was going to become a youth worker. But like I said earlier on, the support of my mom and my dad and Hannah, of course, my rock and very close friends and family, you know, they were like, no, you're not, you're not, you're not doing that. You need to carry on. But it literally came down to the wire. I was going to go for an interview to be a youth worker because I'd worked with the kids in our local village and making films and stuff like that, only voluntary, but I really enjoyed it. And it was like, okay, well, look, if I can't be an actor, this is what I'm going to do. Um,

• 39:58Speaker 01

  and literally, I think the day of the interview, I got an audition. I can't remember what the audition was for, but I got an audition for something else. And again, that sliding doors moment, I went for the audition and thankfully I got the part. And then I think it might have not been too long after that, where I got a call from Marty and asked me to come and be one of the players in Boardwalk Empire, which, you know, which was fantastic.

• 40:23Josh Horowitz?

  Did you ever talk to De Niro about sharing the Al Capone role? He obviously played it in Untouchables. Did that ever come up?

• 40:29Speaker 01

  We did, yeah. Um, you know, I was doing it, I was over here, I was, I was filming a thing with Shane Meadows, which was, which was a wonderful experience called The Virtues. It was brilliant. I loved it. It was such a powerful piece for me and, you know, such an honor to be able to tell that story with Shane, who is one of my favorite directors of all time. Um, and kind of, it was a, I said, lads, I've got to go to New York on the weekend. They were like, what? I said to Shane and Mark, Mark here, but our wonderful producer from Warp, I said, I've got to go to, to New York. I'm flying on Fri- I think I was flying on the Friday after work. I said, I'm flying on the Friday, but I'll be back. Like, you know, I had to be back for work on the Monday, I think. And they were like, okay, all right. Wow, this is amazing. And I literally flew in.

• 41:13Speaker 01

  Got off out of the airplane into a car, boom, straight to Marty's house. Um, because it ne- it needed to be signed off by Bob, who was one of the execs. Um, and can, you know, you can imagine, he's my, he's one of my all time heroes. So just the fact that I'm off to New York. Look, I'm a kid from a normal background, you know what I mean? I'm getting on a plane, going to New York, going to Martin Scorsese's house, meeting Robert De Niro. I mean, come on, what's going on? It's mental.

• 41:45Josh Horowitz?

  Um. Who's already played that role in an amazing role in a different incarnation too. No, yeah, I mean, yeah.

• 41:52Speaker 01

  So I was sat there and, you know, and he comes in with his paper under his arms and it was lovely. And it was, it was not, it was, it was wonderful. It was one of, one of, you know, it was a joyous experience. And Marty went, oh yeah, you know, you two got self in common. And Bob was like, yeah, anyway, you know, you both played Al Capone. And Bob went, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. Yeah, you were great. You were fantastic. And I was like, no, no, you were great. You were fantastic. You were amazing. And it was, it was, it was a wonderful moment.

• 42:17Josh Horowitz?

  You, you, yeah, I mean, amazing performance. That's some of my favorite actors. Michael Shannon is always someone I've long been obsessed with. He's been on the pod a lot. What an amazing man. Um, well, you worked with some of the most like enigmatic, fascinating actors, not just in talent, but also kind of like, there's an aura about some of the folks. I mentioned Tom Hardy, who I find like just endlessly fascinating. Um, you know, Daniel Day Lewis, obviously. I mean, I don't know. Did you ever meet Daniel Day Lewis or did you only meet Bill the Butcher in the course of making Gangs of New York?

• 42:46Speaker 01

  What was really beautiful for me is I got to know Daniel about two weeks before we started filming. Um, because he was training at Chino Cheetah Studios, uh, where we were getting ready to, you know, we did makeup testing, costume and stuff like that. And it was a big upheaval and a big move that me and Hannah both gave up. We gave up our little flat in Beck and we moved to, um, a place called Via Marguta in, right in the center, right by the Spanish Steps in Rome. So we were there for the duration, um. And I I I I met him in the morning and we we used to do a little bit of boxing and training together. He's a wonderful man and I'll just I'll never forget it. On the first day of cinematography.

• 43:32Speaker 01

  Um I'm sat in the makeup department and he comes in in his full regalia, in his whole costume. And he literally put his hand on my shoulder. I'll never forget it. It sends chills down my spine. He looked at me in the mirror. So I was looking at him in the mirror and he just said to me, from now on, I call you Shane and you call me Bill. And I just went, okay, okay, Bill. And that was it. Um and I and I thought. Because when I was a student, when I was at uni, we used to play a game called Shithead. It's a card game. It's a great card game. Um and I started teaching them all how to play, Leo and and Jim and Eddie and the rest of the cast.

• 44:16Speaker 01

  Um I started to teach them how to play Shithead. Um and Daniel came over and he went, what is this game that you're playing, Shane? And I was like, I was called Shithead, Bill. And he's like, oh, teach me how to play this game. So, all right, yeah, so. So, so and then, like, we'd do a scene and it'd be a big, massive, important scene and that.

• 44:33Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 44:34Speaker 01

  And then he he'd come over with his pipe and his little, you know, he always had a metal mug with his tea and things in it. He'd come over with his pipe and his metal mug and he'd just go, Shane. And I'd look at him and go, yeah, yeah, yeah, Bill. And he'd go, fancy a game of Shithead. And I'd be like, yeah, sure. Okay. All right, let's play. Let's get the boys together. Um me and Hannah used to get, because we lived there, me and Hannah used to get sent, there's a programme over here called Match of the Day. Which tells you about all the football that's happened, you know, on that Saturday. And we were like a week behind, so we'd get sent, we'd get it sent every week. Um. And Daniel, Daniel loves his foot. He's a big football fan. So I used to, I used to go.

• 45:13Speaker 01

  I used to give him the video after we'd watch it and he'd he'd take it away and then he'd go, hey, Manchester United stuffed you guys the other day, huh? It was amazing. It was great. It was wonderful. He's too, he's just that, he's, I was in awe of his brilliance. Um and and his, you know, just just to really learn so much from.

• 45:34Speaker 01

  Being immersive within a role and diving straight in was wonderful.

• 45:39Josh Horowitz?

  I'm sure you could, yeah, write a book just from that experience. I mean, I, I, yeah, I made a short, when I was in Rome, I made sure to visit Tenochtitlan one day. Just, I mean, that's history in and of itself. I mean, Marty, the pet project, the Leo, all of it, unbelievable. Um, I, I've heard, I've, I've heard that your Bill the Butcher is amazing. I mean, you're, you are very good at impressions. Do you have a favorite co-star director to fall into?

• 46:02Speaker 01

  I, I don't really, I'm not really good at impressions if I'm, I was as a kid. I don't really do them, but it just, I think it was just the sound of him and that whole Bill thing, which, which was amazing. Yeah.

• 46:15Josh Horowitz?

  I'm sure you have a Marty, you have a Leo, you have a Pacino, I'm guessing.

• 46:19Speaker 01

  I don't, not really. No, I do have similar voices.

• 46:25Josh Horowitz?

  Fair enough, fair enough. Well, I, I want to mention a couple of upcoming things because you are a busy man. Uh, you worked, uh, on the Springsteen movie, which I'm very, very curious about. Are you, are you the dad? Are you Bruce's dad in that one?

• 46:37Speaker 01

  I do. Yeah. Yeah. I, I would, that, um, and that was a, that was a wonderful thing that came through Scott Cooper, who's he's, he's a wonderful man and absolutely beautiful man and a fantastic director. Um, and we were, we were looking to work together for a while. It was, I was supposed to do something for him a long time ago, but due to, um, work commitments and other things, it was, it was unable to happen. But we spent a lot of time having conversations about this particular role and it just, unfortunately it didn't pan out for me that way. But he did say, look, we, we will work together at some point. And then I, I got a phone call from him. Um, and he just said, look, I've,

• 47:18Speaker 01

  I've wrote the script with Bruce and I've got this really nice piece. Um, and when I was thinking and when I was writing about the father, you came into my head, which was a huge honor. Do you know what I mean?

• 47:30Josh Horowitz?

  And any, anybody that knows, I mean, I'm a big Bruce fan, knows anything about him and his history with his dad. I mean, that I would imagine is a very significant part, this relationship in the film.

• 47:39Speaker 01

  Huge. Yeah. Yeah. It really is, Josh. It's, it's, it's, it's integral. There's, there's not loads to do and there's not huge scenes, but it's integral to the core of who he is and, and it, and his story. Um, and when he said that to me and I was like, Yeah, being honoured. I've read the script. The script is fantastic. And Jeremy Allen White, who I'm a huge fan of. I think he's a wonderful actor. He's an amazing actor. He's brilliant. He's like, to me, he's that new wave of like Pacino's and De Niro's of today, do you know what I mean? Him and Timothy Chalamet. I just think that outstanding the both of them. Um, and that's kind of, they're that new ilk coming through from America for me. And I just think they're wonderful.

• 48:19Speaker 01

  So to work with someone like him as well was a joy and an honour. But also what it, what, what Scott said to me as well was a lot of my stuff would be with young Bruce. Um, and that was joyous. You know, the stuff in the fifties, that was absolutely joyous. And to try and find this man who was, no, no, he was an alcoholic. He was a manic depressive. Um, he suffered from schizophrenia. Uh, you know, he, he, he wasn't well. He wasn't a well man. Um, and to be able to try and tap in and tell that story for me was, was a huge honour. And, and then to meet Bruce.

• 48:56Josh Horowitz?

  I was gonna say, it seems like he was on set quite a bit. So yeah, what's that like?

• 48:59Speaker 01

  He was, yeah, he was. And it was, it was just, I mean, he, he sent me a text, which, you know, it's very personal. It was just so beautiful. Um, but for me to be able to, to do justice to, oh, the light went in. For me to be able to do justice to, to what was on that page. Um, and for him to say to me that, you know, I'd encapsulated the, the presence and the order of his father was, was, was a huge honour. It really was. And you couldn't get any bigger compliment, you know what I mean? And Bruce is, I mean, let's face it, you know, in, in the, in the same ilk as the Nero and Pacino for me. He's an icon.

• 49:37Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 49:38Speaker 01

  He's a huge icon. But again, like both of those men as well, he has such humility. And such, such dignity and such grace. But his humility, I was so touched by his humility. So touched by it.

• 49:52Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, I I I got one of the highlights in my career was visiting his his home in in Jersey and interviewing him there. And my God, like what he has contributed to my life and like anybody of my age and under. It's just like he's he's the real deal. So.

• 50:08Speaker 01

  He really is, isn't he, Josh?

• 50:10Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 50:11Speaker 01

  And it's not, we're not just saying it. He I don't. Yeah, he really is. And he's he's iconic. For Christ's sake, he's iconic.

• 50:19Josh Horowitz?

  And he's texting you. You're you're living the dream, man.

• 50:22Speaker 01

  I know. I know. That's that's one of those moments again where, like I said to you earlier, sorry, I'll just try and put this light back on.

• 50:28Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, thanks.

• 50:29Speaker 01

  For the surreal kind of, um, for me, oh, hang on. Yeah. For me, that whole kind of. Bruce Springsteen sent me a text. I can't get over it. It's like mad. It's really mad.

• 50:44Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. Who is that for you? Is that because I I've had this conversation with folks like who is the person that when you get a text from in your life? Because you probably got a bunch that still breaks your brain in half. How do I know this person? How does this person know me?

• 50:57Speaker 01

  I think I think it was the Bruce one for me.

• 50:59Josh Horowitz?

  It's Bruce, yeah.

• 51:01Speaker 01

  Because I now that came about as well, he was like, because he he we were on set and um and we were just talking. And he said, I'm playing Liverpool. I'm playing Liverpool. I went, yeah, you're playing at Anfield, aren't you? And he was like, yeah. He went, you want to go? I went, you kidding me? I'd love to come. And he went, give us your phone. And I was like, what? And he went, gives you. I went, oh, uh, and I got my phone. I was like, yeah, and he went, he went, right, there's my number. And I was like, uh, uh, uh, thank you. But then you know, when you don't want to text them, they give you your number and you don't want to text them. It's like, no, I'm never going to text them. And then the next minute, I think that same night, bing, and I've gone, oh, shit, shit. And it was Bruce.

• 51:42Josh Horowitz?

  And does it say? Does it just say Bruce or the whole name?

• 51:44Speaker 01

  I I put it's I put the whole name just it says, but yeah.

• 51:50Speaker 01

  And I was like, oh, shit, it's Bruce. And he was like, hey, lovely, great, great team today. Well done. Lovely, lovely talks. I can't wait. Um, yeah, I'll see you next week. And I was like, and then I'm like, oh, shit, now I respond. Okay. Thank you. Yeah, brilliant. So, yeah, it was mad.

• 52:03Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, it's like calling back the girlfriend at fifteen years old. Like, what do I say? It's like you're back to that kid. Yeah, right?

• 52:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:11Josh Horowitz?

  Um, Peaky Blinders, what was the experience like? Is this?

• 52:15Speaker 01

  Amazing, amazing.

• 52:17Josh Horowitz?

  Is it gonna feel different than this than the series? I mean, it's obviously a film over, you know, it's gonna have a different scope, I would imagine a little bit, or?

• 52:23Speaker 01

  Um, it's a great script. Again, look, and I'm just being completely honest. To be asked to be in Peaky Blinders in that final series for me was was it was a huge on it. But again, one of them moments where. Killian to me is phenomenal. He's a he's he's phenomenal. He's exceptional. He's absolutely exceptional. Um, and like I said, I'm a huge fan. A huge fan of Killian's. Um, but but especially the, you know, the series, I was a big fan of the series. Well, Killian, I have. To me, he's one of the actors I've watched. His career from the get go as well, do you know what I mean? From the very beginning. Um, so to just be in his company and.

• 53:05Speaker 01

  And to really spend time with him and and get to know him a little bit was was an absolute joy. It was a little bit kind of. I was like, is Killian on set? Can I go with you? You know, I was I was a bit of a fanboy. Um, and what was really sweet was for me. Is that he was a bit of a fanboy as well.

• 53:22Josh Horowitz?

  I'm sure.

• 53:23Speaker 01

  So we just sat there having a little, you know, a little fun moment. But, um. Watching him on set as well, how he just amazes and becomes somebody is is brilliant. Uh, and I did catch myself kind of steam in rehearsal. Again, like I said in rehearsal, I catch myself watching him going, oh, wow, he's brilliant. Isn't he brilliant? Look at that. Oh, he's doing, ah, and it's like, oh, shit. No, I'm in the scene with him. Wake up, come on. You've got to get yourself together, get in it with him. Um.

• 53:48Josh Horowitz?

  How? Yeah, sorry, go ahead.

• 53:50Speaker 01

  It's it's it's a great, this that was the series, but the film itself is it's a really, it's a really good film. It's solid. I think the script was brilliant. Uh, the director was fantastic and and I think what Killian's brought to the table again is is amazing. And to have Barry Keog.

• 54:05Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 54:06Speaker 01

  Who to me is is a powerhouse.

• 54:08Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 54:08Speaker 01

  He's a powerhouse. So I think, yeah, hopefully I can't wait to see what it looks like, but I I should imagine it will do really well.

• 54:15Josh Horowitz?

  Here's the one filmmaker I'm surprised has eluded you. Tarantino needs to get on it for the 10th film because I feel like

• 54:21Speaker 01

  I'd love that.

• 54:22Josh Horowitz?

  If Reservoir Dogs was being made today, you're part of that ensemble. Like, you're you're you're one of his guys. I feel like you're destined to be one of his guys. Have you ever crossed paths with?

• 54:30Speaker 01

  I haven't, Josh, but if you could throw in a good word, I'd really appreciate it.

• 54:34Josh Horowitz?

  I will. At least on the podcast a couple of times, I'll do it.

• 54:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, please. I mean, yeah, I I did say, I think I did say to Leo, I don't even remember saying to Leo, if he does another one, please have a word for me. See if you can throw my name in the hat. And he's like, of course I will, bro. Of course I will. So fingers crossed, you never know.

• 54:50Josh Horowitz?

  Well, you're a busy guy. You got a lot going. Let me end with this. This is the Happy Second Fuse profoundly random questions. A little more rapid fire for you. Uh, dogs or cats? Which do you prefer?

• 55:01Speaker 01

  Oh, no, but our cats lovely though.

• 55:03Josh Horowitz?

  That's okay.

• 55:04Speaker 01

  Not fair.

• 55:05Josh Horowitz?

  But we we got the truth. It was instinctual. You couldn't stop it yourself.

• 55:09Speaker 01

  I know, but our cat is lovely. Ah, it's funny. Yeah, okay, I'll go dogs.

• 55:14Josh Horowitz?

  Do you collect anything?

• 55:18Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, I do, actually.

• 55:22Speaker 01

  Trainees.

• 55:25Josh Horowitz?

  Wait, like sneakers back here?

• 55:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:27Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I got it.

• 55:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, I've got a lot of trainees.

• 55:29Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, that's good. Could be worse. Yep.

• 55:31Speaker 01

  Too many apparently. Yeah.

• 55:33Josh Horowitz?

  No, no. Uh, do you have a re every a video game guy? You have a favorite video game of all time?

• 55:38Speaker 01

  Yes. Um, do you know what I used to love? The original Mario, you know, the

• 55:44Speaker 01

  because we we used to have to get the mushrooms and grow bigger and all that, uh, because and also Asteroids in the in the boys' club, we had Asteroid, but in the video shop in at school in at lunchtime, when we go across at lunch and you get your chips and that, the video shop, they had Mario Brothers, and you used to queue up and you'd put your ten pence in and you'd be there for ages. Sometimes I'd I'd be dead honest with you, Josh, I'd miss the odd lesson because

• 56:11Josh Horowitz?

  It's good for the hand-eye coordination. It helps. Yeah.

• 56:15Speaker 01

  I miss the odd lesson.

• 56:16Josh Horowitz?

  This is the Dakota Johnson memorial question. She posed this to me, so I apologize for the crudeness, but would you rather have a mouthful of bees or one bee in your butt?

• 56:27Josh Horowitz?

  Provocative.

• 56:28Speaker 01

  Oh, um, that's a tricky question. Oh, no, I, no, no, look, as a man of a certain age, I have experienced piles. Um.

• 56:43Speaker 01

  Hmm. This can be really stingy and itchy. Um, but in your mouth though, now I'm gonna go for one being a but.

• 56:50Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, I agree. I think that's the right call. Um, what's the wallpaper on your phone?

• 56:56Speaker 01

  Oh, it's actually, it's, can you see? So, well, let me, let me see them. The, where's the?

• 57:04Josh Horowitz?

  Over here. Yeah, there you go.

• 57:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:07Josh Horowitz?

  So I see a beach. I see three people. What, what do I, I don't know.

• 57:11Speaker 01

  That's me, Grace and Alfie.

• 57:14Josh Horowitz?

  Oh.

• 57:15Speaker 01

  Running into the sea.

• 57:16Josh Horowitz?

  Love it. Beautiful. Uh, do you ever get mistaken for another actor? Who's the last actor you were mistaken for?

• 57:25Speaker 01

  Not, not an actor. Anyone in England will get, it's a funny, not an actor, but a fella that used to be on Big Brother.

• 57:32Josh Horowitz?

  No.

• 57:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, fellow on Big Brother. Um, and occasionally every now and again wants to believe in Craig Charles. Yeah. It's like, well, we're two different tones, man, like I say. Um, yeah, but yeah, there you go. Yeah.

• 57:45Josh Horowitz?

  What's the worst note a director has ever given you?

• 57:49Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 57:52Speaker 01

  Oh shit. Um.

• 57:55Speaker 01

  Oh, I can't hear a voice now.

• 57:58Josh Horowitz?

  A moment that just was not helpful. It could be a general or specific note.

• 58:04Speaker 01

  Oh, well, that's hard to think that one.

• 58:06Josh Horowitz?

  Okay. You've been well directed. You work with the best. So they give good notes apparently.

• 58:10Speaker 01

  Mostly, but you, you do get a bumps. I, I have, I've had the odd one. I've had quite a few where the director's given me a note. And I've gone, are you sure? And he's gone, yeah. And I've gone, all right. So I played it. And I've inside I've gone, and they've come over, they've come back over and they've gone.

• 58:28Speaker 01

  Should we go, go back to the way you did it? And I'm like, okay, thank you.

• 58:31Josh Horowitz?

  Vindication. Yeah.

• 58:32Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 58:33Josh Horowitz?

  And in the spirit of happy, sad, confused, a actor who always makes you happy. You see them on screen, you're happier.

• 58:40Speaker 01

  Bruce Willis. No, no, no, no, not Bruce Willis. What man of ours? No, um, Robin Williams, I meant to say.

• 58:47Josh Horowitz?

  Robin Williams is probably the most frequent answer to that question. I will let you know.

• 58:50Speaker 01

  Robin Williams.

• 58:51Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. Uh, a movie that makes you sad always.

• 58:56Speaker 01

  Uh, alright.

• 59:00Josh Horowitz?

  What have you cried the most at? What film?

• 59:05Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 59:09Speaker 01

  The color purple.

• 59:11Josh Horowitz?

  That's a good one. Yeah, yeah.

• 59:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, the color purple.

• 59:14Josh Horowitz?

  And finally, a food that makes you confused. You don't get it. Why do people eat that? I don't understand it.

• 59:21Speaker 01

  Um.

• 59:23Speaker 01

  Um. Food that makes you confused. Um.

• 59:29Speaker 01

  Uh, oh.

• 59:32Speaker 01

  Um, I have to pick it out of the things all the time, because I don't like it. I get very angry with it. Um, oh shit, what's it called? The green thing? That's that happens. It's like prickly. Um.

• 59:44Josh Horowitz?

  Is it kind of lettuce? Like a string beans? Like a, like a?

• 59:49Speaker 01

  Oh, what's it called? I've just picked it out of my lunch then, and I forgot what it's called. It's the green thing. It's like a.

• 59:55Josh Horowitz?

  It's a green thing. It's a, a pea pod. A, uh, no.

• 1:00:01Speaker 01

  No, no, not parsley. Keep going. Um.

• 1:00:04Josh Horowitz?

  It's the worst game show ever. Um.

• 1:00:06Speaker 01

  Parsley. Um, it's like, oh, why have you put that in there? They put it in salads.

• 1:00:12Josh Horowitz?

  Um.

• 1:00:13Speaker 01

  No, they put it in salads. They put it in food.

• 1:00:17Josh Horowitz?

  Stephen, we're gonna have to continue this on the second round of the podcast.

• 1:00:20Speaker 01

  Wait, wait, wait. Give me one second.

• 1:00:21Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, I have nowhere to be.

• 1:00:23Speaker 01

  One second. Right, one second. Hang on. Nah.

• 1:00:28Speaker 01

  It's one second, please. One second.

• 1:00:30Josh Horowitz?

  How are you Googling this? How is that? What is possible?

• 1:00:32Speaker 01

  It's my Google.

• 1:00:39Josh Horowitz?

  He's calling a friend. He's calling a friend.

• 1:00:42Speaker 01

  Say.

• 1:00:44Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, no.

• 1:00:45Speaker 01

  Uh, love, sorry. Quickly, what's that thing that we pick out of salads that I can't stand? That green shit? Rocket. There we go. Sorry for waking you up. Love you. Bye bye. Rocket, there you go, Rocket, told ya. Oh, she was having a little snooze then as well.

• 1:01:02Josh Horowitz?

  It was worth it.

• 1:01:03Speaker 01

  Though Josh, I know exactly where to go to and how to fix it.

• 1:01:07Josh Horowitz?

  Hannah solves everything. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:01:08Speaker 01

  Fucking hate Rockets. I don't understand it. It's everywhere as well. You have to pick it out of things. Even when you say, "No Rocket, please", it comes back. I don't like it.

• 1:01:19Josh Horowitz?

  I've seen this aggressive side in some of your roles. Uh, it finally came out at the very end. Um, man, this was, this was a blast. I, you know, we hit the tip of the iceberg of your career. You've been doing so much amazing work for so long. So we'll have to continue this another time. Um, truly, truly, truly, you're one of the best out there. Everybody should check out A Thousand Blows. That's going to be on Hulu in the States, Disney Plus, elsewhere. Uh, and then Adolescence, uh, it is coming on Netflix in mid-March. So everybody should check that out if you want to see what this guy does, uh, as well as anybody in the business. Um, Stephen, thanks again for the time today, man.

• 1:01:51Speaker 01

  Thank you very much, Josh. It's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you very much and thank you for your kind words.

• 1:01:57Josh Horowitz?

  Of course, of course.

• 1:01:59Speaker 02

  And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley and I definitely wasn't prepared to do this by Josh.

• 1:02:18Speaker 07

  Do you ever watch a TV show set in a historical time period and think, "How accurate is this really?", but also, "Does it matter if it's accurate or not"?

• 1:02:27Speaker 06

  Nefertv is a new podcast about shows set in ancient times.

• 1:02:34Speaker 06

  This season, we're recapping every episode of the show Spartacus: Blood and Sand.

• 1:02:39Speaker 07

  I'm Anne Foster and I have never seen this show before.

• 1:02:42Speaker 06

  And I'm Gina Berry and I have watched this show maybe too many times.

• 1:02:47Speaker 07

  Join us every other Monday on the Nefertv podcast as we discuss the real history behind Spartacus: Blood and Sand.

• 1:02:54Speaker 06

  Follow Nefertv, that's N-E-F-E-R-T-V, wherever you get your podcasts.