Theo James

Theo James, leading man or comic actor? Maybe both? In his first visit to the podcast, Theo talks about his comedic and musical roots, what he learned from DIVERGENT, why there's a little bit of his WHITE LOTUS character in all of us, and his new horror comedy, THE MONKEY. UPCOMING EVENT! Nathan Lane -- March 20th in New York -- Tickets here SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS! Quince -- Go to Quince.com/happysadco for 365 day returns and free shipping! Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Happy Sad Confused patreon here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! We've got discount codes to live events, merch, early access, exclusive episodes, video versions of the podcast, and more! To watch episodes of Happy Sad Confused, subscribe to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Josh's youtube channel here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:31Speaker 01

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• 0:59Josh Horowitz?

  Last actor you were mistaken for?

• 1:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, God, it was one of the Franco brothers again. Probably last week, someone was like, excuse me, excuse me. And I turned around and I was like, here it goes. Are you Dave Franco? [BLEEP] you.

• 1:17Josh Horowitz?

  I turned very quickly.

• 1:19Speaker 04

  Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, Sad, Confused begins now.

• 1:27Josh Horowitz?

  Hey guys, welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. I'm Josh, this is my podcast, and you are about to listen or watch, depending on what platform you are using, to my conversation with Theo James, first time guest on the podcast this week. He's promoting The Monkey, we'll talk about that in just a second. But before we get to that, some reminders, if you want to see me live and in person doing my thing, the next one that officially has tickets on sale is March 20th with Mr. Nathan Lane, icon of stage and screen. He will be a first time guest on the podcast. Get your tickets now. The link, the information is in the show notes. Come on out. This one's selling well, but there are many tickets still available, so I hope to see you guys there.

• 2:09Josh Horowitz?

  If you want to see me, as I said, do my thing in person. As always, patreon.com is your friend. Patreon.com/happysadconfused.

• 2:18Josh Horowitz?

  For early access, for bonus content, for posters, for merch, anything and everything happy, stay confused. If you like what we do, give it a shot because that lets us make more cool stuff for you. Okay, main event, Theo James. You may know Theo from a variety of different performances and projects. I first got to know him through the Divergent films, which we covered a hell of a lot of at MTV when every YA book series was being turned into movies. And Theo was front and center alongside Shailene Woodley in those films. And I knew immediately, I really liked Theo from the start because he is kind of

• 2:58Josh Horowitz?

  like this leading man guy in person, but you get to know him a little bit, you realize he's got a really fun, twisted sense of humor, doesn't take it all too seriously, just a good dude. So I'm very really happy. He's kind of having this kind of new round of success, thanks to his Emmy nominated performance in The White Lotus a couple of years back, his leading performance in The Gentleman, the Guy Ritchie Netflix series, which has already got a second season greenlit. And now The Monkey, which is, if you like Stephen King, this is based on a Stephen King short story. If you like Oz Perkins, director of Long Legs, if you like a Final Destination kind of vibe to your horror, this is the

• 3:42Josh Horowitz?

  movie for you. It is about to open. It is a tale of brothers, the Place Twins, that's not a spoiler, who encounter a pet toy monkey, you heard me right, who wreaks havoc. Basically, tons of murders ensue around this horrific pet toy monkey. How's that for a summary of a crazy movie? It's a crowd pleaser. It's a fun movie to see in a packed house because the kills are insane and fun, as you would hope in a movie like this. So that's kind of the main reason for having Theo on, but we cover everything in this. I think you guys are gonna enjoy it. I know you're gonna enjoy it. I certainly did. So without any further ado, here is me and Theo James.

• 4:27Speaker 03

  Thanks for doing this virtually, man.

• 4:29Josh Horowitz?

  No.

• 4:30Speaker 03

  Where are you? Is that your apartment?

• 4:32Josh Horowitz?

  This is, welcome to my lovely New York apartment, Theo. You're invited over anytime. Yeah, very trendy. You know me. You know how I roll. How you been, buddy? It's good to see you.

• 4:42Speaker 03

  I'm good. You're doing very well, man. I see your interviews everywhere. Excellent.

• 4:47Josh Horowitz?

  I've always said, one day, no, not at all. One day, I'm gonna be big and strong like Theo James. And one day, one day, he's gonna be on the podcast. And as, as the prophecy is foretold, look at that. Did you see the thumbs up that just happened? You see the balloons?

• 5:03Speaker 03

  I saw the balloons.

• 5:04Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, like, that's amazing. I was gonna say, the prophecies have always said, a murdering monkey would bring him to the podcast. And it's come to pass. Here we are. So officially, congratulations. The monkey is so great, man. It's fucked up and wonderful and delicious. How are you feeling about, about this one? You must be riding high?

• 5:27Speaker 03

  Good. Yeah. I mean, I guess I feel like I've been doing it long enough where you never, you never really know. But, you know, I think it's really, for what it's worth, if I'm in it, it's hard to tell. But, you know, it's funny, and it's irreverent, but it also has kind of a bit of an existential backbone. And we had a good time making it. You know, Oz is obviously great. Long Legs kind of smashed him out into the stratosphere. But I had followed his stuff since before that. Me and him actually pitched a couple of things, him as a writer and me as a producer during lockdown. Good stuff. The nature of the industry, the TV show that we were kind of developing and pitching didn't come to

• 6:11Speaker 03

  fruition. But I knew his work. I knew his humor. I knew how quick he was as a writer. So when I heard he was doing a Stephen King adaptation, I kind of thought it was a no brainer. And then I read it. And my first thought actually was to call him. And because then we had a chat, obviously, and I called him, I was like, this is really funny. Am I, am I getting that right? Is that the idea? Yeah, man. It's the idea. You can't do a serious film about a monkey that murders people, a toy monkey. So I think, you know, what he set out to do was, was always this. And it's been kind of impressive seeing how he's evolved it, basically.

• 6:48Josh Horowitz?

  This does feel like the comedy renaissance of Theo James. I feel like you've returned, and as I understand it, going back to your roots, like comedy was something you were passionate about early on, but I feel like only in recent years are you really getting to stretch that muscle.

• 7:04Speaker 03

  I've been allowed to do it. Yeah, totally. That's funny. I kind of feel the most confident in that space in a way because as you said, I kind of, in a very amateur way, that's how I started as an actor. We used to write sketch shows and stand up and shows and take them up to the Edinburgh Fringe when I was in my early twenties. And then I, you know, the nature of life and whatever, I kind of got away from it and I, and I missed it, but, but doing more of it. And I'd like to keep doing more of it because I, I love the freedom it brings you as an actor and the, the lack of self-consciousness it enables.

• 7:42Speaker 03

  And working with people like Oz and Mike White as well, you know, they, they remind me of each other in a way, not personality wise, but in terms of their style, that when they find exactly what they're excellent at doing, which both of them have, have done. They're incredibly quick with rewrites. They're incredibly confident on set, but not in a kind of dickish way. And it gives you confidence as an actor to try things. And I think in comedy, that's particularly important and pertinent because you need to be able to feel a level of trust there where you can do stupid dumb stuff and some of it doesn't work and some, some of it might, you know? And, and that is, is really, is really freeing. And as I said, I like to do more of it.

• 8:25Josh Horowitz?

  I also think that there's a, there's an element of, you know, I think when you're starting out as an actor, like people define you more so even by your look, by just the vessel you're in. And I think that that goes for probably every actor. And I, I think of you, I just saw Mickey 17 with Robert Pattinson, another multiple role performance. And I think of another guy who kind of like, you know, has this look. And is now like getting the license to play weird and fucked up and funny now that he's kind of like reached a certain stature. And it feels like in a comparable way, it's like you kind of paid your dues playing kind of the straight arrow guys. And now you're getting a chance to kind of buck around with that image a little bit.

• 9:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, and pushed to the boundaries a little bit. And I, you know, he, he's a great actor, Robert Pattinson, and he did that certainly for kind of our generation of, of young actors at the time. Now we're getting kind of old and decrepit. But um, he, he, he was smart in taking risks and doing things that were unexpected. And, and I think that can really pay off. And, you know, I think about even Colin Farrell or someone like that. He, he is best when he's doing, you know, weird, strange, um, offbeat characters, because there's, there's a richness there. And you want to circumvent any assumption of who you are or the roles that you played before. And quite frankly, when you're coming up as

• 9:47Speaker 03

  a young actor, you, you're hustling, as you always are, because that's the nature of the game. But when you're literally just starting out, you, you don't, you know, you kind of got to ride the tides that, that are given to you. And you don't always have the control that you, you would want.

• 10:02Josh Horowitz?

  Well, it kind of dovetails, if you allow me, like with kind of the themes of this film, which is all about kind of like, you know, is, is fate intervening? Are we in control of our own destiny? And like, I always have this conversation with actors and like, most people don't realize it, like 95% of actors out there are kind of just taking what they can get. Like you, you have, the luxury of choice is so few and far between. And luckily, you, you have that to a degree, but like, very few have, you know, are Leonardo DiCaprio and can just kind of like go through the board. And you're just making the best of what you got. Like, have you felt at a certain point, have you come to terms with kind of like how much control you can have over your own career? Like, how do you kind of navigate that as you age into decrepitness?

• 10:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, you're you're under a false illusion that you have control, especially when you start out and you you you really don't. I've also learned that naively when I started, you you read a script and you think, oh, there are there are cool parts of it. You know, there's an element of interesting character evolution. But, you know, it's a kind of five out of 10, but we can fix that. And you can fix it. If it's if it's not there, it's always

• 11:13Josh Horowitz?

  Not there, it's not there. Yeah, we'll plus it up on the day. We'll we'll figure it out.

• 11:16Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So so really, you've got to as much as you can. Again, you don't always have that luxury and that can change moment to moment. But choosing people who are good at what they do, I mean, particularly, you know, directors with good material. I know that sounds like an obvious thing to say, but there's a naivety, I think, when you first start out, that you can just kind of mold stuff and make it better. But inherently, it has to be a piece and have to has to be a confident voice more than anything. And doesn't always turn out the the way you want to. That's just life, isn't it? But but those are the choices that you you have some control over. Beyond that, you have to let it go to the winds, as it were.

• 12:02Josh Horowitz?

  Can we talk a little bit about the

• 12:03Speaker 03

  Go to the winds.

• 12:04Josh Horowitz?

  Go to the winds. That old chestnut.

• 12:09Josh Horowitz?

  Um, the um, the excitement of playing dual roles in this, you're playing twins. I mean, you're following like a long line from Lindsay Lohan to Jeremy Irons. They've all done it. And here you are, Theo.

• 12:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 12:24Speaker 03

  I did it once before for a kind of short-lived HBO TV show, which I enjoyed doing, but it was a good learning curve pre this way, because it's a great thing to do, because you get, especially with this, because you're playing two sides of a different of a coin, you know, you're playing the Hal character is the more kind of grounded, kind of straight guy, Sardonic guy. And then you have the insanity of Bill, who's just a complete maniac. So you can kind of, you know, do two things at once there. But what I learned from doing initially on the the time traveler's wife was you, you kind of have to know.

• 13:05Speaker 03

  Sixty percent of what you're gonna do, as in you don't wanna plan it so much that it becomes, it affects naturalism, cuz that's what we're aiming for, hopefully. But you need to know what you're doing, because I've found in that, I would end up trapping myself into a performance on one side of it, if it makes sense, because if you, you're performing with another actor, and then you turn around and the actor does decide that you've already done, obviously. But if you are not aware of how you're gonna play the other part, you suddenly find when you turn the camera around and you're playing the other part, you're stuck in a rhythm and you're being forced to make choices that you didn't wanna make, if that makes sense. So that's the boring side of it, but the exciting side of it is to be being able to

• 13:45Speaker 03

  do anything, and certainly with Bill in The Monkey, Oz and I were like, let's push him the hardest we can, you know, there were moments where I was kind of crawling around like a dog, yelping and, you know, licking microphones. None of it made it in, but, thank fuck, but, you know, to have the freedom to do that and not feel stupid, or at least to feel stupid after the fact, enables you to find little pieces here and there.

• 14:18Josh Horowitz?

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• 15:02Josh Horowitz?

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• 15:43Josh Horowitz?

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• 17:09Josh Horowitz?

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• 17:45Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, so since this is your first time on the pod, and as much as we've talked over the years, we've never really had kind of a little bit of the deep dive background conversation, let's go back for a second. First of all, most importantly, did you, did you come out of the womb sounding like this? Was your, when did this voice happen?

• 18:01Speaker 03

  I remember it very well, actually. I was doing a performance of Joseph's Technicolor Dreamcoat when I was about, quite young, I was about 11, and it was in this kind of church of England school, in this little church, and I was supposed to sing the song, you know, I closed my eyes, blah, blah. And the second, I think it was the morning of the performance, my voice broke, and, you know, the primary school teacher was like, "What the fuck happened to your voice?" And I sounded terrible, and I couldn't keep key as well, so it was incredibly embarrassing. But my, yeah, I don't know, otherwise, my dad has quite a similar voice, and we get mistaken for being the same person on the phone. And

• 18:43Speaker 03

  we used to call it as kids, the rah-voice, because you'd hear him, and he'd be like,

• 18:53Josh Horowitz?

  I always think of, well, when I first met you, of course, I think it was on the set of Divergent, and I remember meeting you, meeting Jai, and thinking, "I am not a man, I am a child. I am not of the same genetic species as these guys."

• 19:10Speaker 03

  No, we just dorked.

• 19:12Josh Horowitz?

  Then I realized, then I realized, you guys are just dorks. You guys are just like me, basically.

• 19:19Speaker 03

  The voice, I've actually enjoyed over time, actually, because I do some voice over stuff as well for, you know, and I, this sounds fucking acty and wanky, but I enjoy that side of, of kind of performance as well, because there's a lot you can do in that space. And I love accents, and I love, you know, I love the nuance of that, because there's a lot to it. I mean, even the American accent, you know, I think there's a misconception that it's easy to do, but there's so much more to it than just rounding your eyes, you know, there's a complexity to it, and I love the nuance of that.

• 19:56Josh Horowitz?

  You mentioned voice acting. You did, you did a voice in X-Men 97, right?

• 20:00Speaker 03

  I did, yes, yes, that was very funny.

• 20:02Josh Horowitz?

  Were you, were you a comic book kid? What were you, what were you into? You were a 90s kid, so what were you into?

• 20:08Speaker 03

  I was into, you know, like classical literature.

• 20:13Speaker 03

  I'm buying it. Nope. I was a comic book kid, I have to say, because I, in Britain, it's, it's less of a cultural thing, if I'm totally honest. It wasn't something that I was exposed to, or friends were reading at school, or my brothers were reading. You know, as a young kid, it was movies, really, and, um, you know, pretending to like football. My, my brothers loved football, and I fucking was always shit at football. Uh, but, but as a young British kid in the nineties, you had to pretend that you were a big football fan. So that was kind of where I started, you know, learning how to act, is being like, yeah, I fucking, yes, I love fucking Man City. Yeah, get in, son, having no idea.

• 20:56Josh Horowitz?

  So what were the actors or films that you were obsessed with? What could you recite by heart? What actors were the first ones that you really started to follow?

• 21:04Speaker 03

  Well, my brother, um, was, he, he did a, he did film and American studies as an undergrad, and I was about twelve at the time. He's the eldest of five of us, um, and he went to UCSD for a year, and he came back and he would love, and I remember visiting him actually and kind of loving, uh, seeing cameras for the first time, you know, you, in action, as it were. Um, and then he came back and we would make these kind of stupid movies together, usually comedy and usually like gross humor that would be offensive. Um, any day, I was gonna say nowadays, but they were definitely offensive back then. Um, but, uh, everything really, but I think to me, you know, vintage Harrison Ford was really interesting because he

• 21:50Speaker 03

  was kind of a archetypal hero looking, like, you know, he's, right. You know, we know who Harrison Ford is, obviously, but there's a, his delivery is quite comedic, and it's also, he loves to underplay things, and I love that as a style. I find that kind of fascinating and interesting and endearing, that you could have a kind of, you know, masculine, strong, heroic figure, but he's always slightly taking the piss out of himself. I found that really fascinating, and as a, as a young kid.

• 22:22Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, the I, you know, it's a name drop. I just interviewed him the other day and I'm so starstruck. You know, I've done this. I've done this for a long time, but like, oh my God. I've interviewed a lot of people and still when you walk into the room with Harrison Ford, it's butterflies and he's still, he's legit. He is the guy. But what I always loved. Yeah, I love growing up with his stuff is like, you know, as like, you know, idealized man as he was, he was also so relatable because he like, he took the punch and it hurt and you felt it. Like Indiana Jones, like, wasn't perfect. He was bloody and fucking up and that's what kind of made him so endearing.

• 22:58Speaker 03

  Exactly. Making mistakes, freewheeling, making up as he goes along. Yeah, that and and the and his performance style is interesting, isn't it? Because it's always quite under low key. It's very thrown away, but it's funny at the same time. He's highly sarcastic. And he's quite irreverent and it kind of works in a space where there's everything has a quite knowing wink. And that that's connectable for an audience, isn't it? Yeah.

• 23:26Josh Horowitz?

  So I know music was the first passion before taking acting seriously, like best case scenario in your mind when you were in your teens or early twenties, like what was it gonna be? Like, if it had worked out, where would you be? What would you be doing now in the music world?

• 23:43Speaker 03

  I'd be a drug addict, obviously.

• 23:48Speaker 03

  That's the best case scenario. I, yeah, I think music because I, if I'm honest, I loved, we talk about kind of control. And it is very different. And, you know, I never did it to the heights of what other people have done, but but the modicum that I experienced it, you know, you're it's your stuff, it's your words, it's your rhythms and melodies and you're completely bare bones in front of an audience. And I think the high from that, you can get that from theater to an extent, but it's quite different from working filmically. I think I like screen because of the nuance of it and the naturalism is really interesting to me.

• 24:34Speaker 03

  Kind of as a conce, playing that and realizing that kind of subtlety of emotion. But in terms of music, you have complete control and the ecstasy from it is unmatched, I think. But.

• 24:50Speaker 03

  You know, I sometimes joke to my wife and I think I'll be, you know, four times divorced and, you know, it's some kind of deep fuck up. So it's probably a better choice. And frankly, I I kind of tried, you know, and I, if I'm totally honest, I tried to an extent where I I think I had opportunities where if it would have happened, if it would have happened, if that makes sense. Um, so.

• 25:09Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 25:10Speaker 03

  I I've I've made my peace with it.

• 25:13Josh Horowitz?

  It says some, yeah, I was gonna say, it's it says something when like acting is the stable alternative to the other career, because it's like,

• 25:22Josh Horowitz?

  this is maybe the the second most unstable work line of work you found.

• 25:26Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 25:28Josh Horowitz?

  So, so I guess, so you're you're working for a bit before diversion happens. I'm curious, like, what was was there like, was there a near miss that that you thought was going to change the career prior to that opportunity? When you look back, like something that felt like a potential game changer, whether it was a job you almost got or whatever.

• 25:50Speaker 03

  Not, no, I can't, not really. I felt like, you know, before that, I, before that, coming out of university and then I went to to the old Vic and I had a bunch of student debt and I was just kind of hustling, really.

• 26:08Speaker 03

  That afforded me an opportunity to do some different things, but it also came with its own slight poison chalice of the type of material it was. It was also kind of the the fatigued days of a subgenre, right? It was why a young adult, and I think there'd been a a glut of material like that. And that came towards the end where audiences had a bit of fatigue towards it. So, and that's kind of talking objectively where you can't when you're actually doing the thing. Um, but but it was, it was interesting.

• 26:45Speaker 03

  Um, but it made me realize more the things that I didn't didn't want to do, if that makes sense. Um, I I'm not sure.

• 26:56Speaker 03

  Green screen. I'm not, I don't think I'm, I'm not that way inclined. I'm not particularly good at that, to be honest. So that was a big learning curve for me. But before that, it was, it was more just a hustle, to be honest, paying off fucking shitloads of student debt.

• 27:11Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 27:12Speaker 03

  And trying to vaguely make choices. But as you said, in reality, you're, you're just trying to pay your bills at that, that point in your mid twenties.

• 27:21Josh Horowitz?

  Um, I mean, I don't want, I don't want to revel on, because I know, like, you know, Divergent kind of, yeah, kind of went off the rails by the end, sadly. But like, you know, you go into it with the best of intentions and Neil Burge is a, a, a great, a great director. That first film, I think, like, there was a lot of potential there. Like, what, what are the happiest memory, memories you have of making Divergence? I mean, that group was amazing. That group of actors is fantastic.

• 27:43Speaker 03

  Uh, happiest memory is me crying in my trailer, uh, in Georgia, uh, when it was forty one degrees Celsius. Now, um, I think, you know, Neil, I really enjoyed, he, he had this idea of, um, you know, his touchpoints were like Black Hawk Down for it. He wanted it to be dark and dirty and frenetic. And I thought that was an interesting way of tackling something filmically like that. Um, and, um, yeah, I, I, in, in Chicago, I think the first one was from Chicago and then later moved to Atlanta. I think that, that is an

• 28:27Speaker 03

  interesting environment in terms of how the thing looked, the age of the city. Um, I, I enjoyed, I enjoyed that. And thematically, there's some, some interesting themes, you know, in, in that film. But, um, but yeah, Burgie, I'd say, I enjoyed Burger Boy.

• 28:46Josh Horowitz?

  Was there a period, okay, so the series comes and goes and then it's time to kind of figure out what's next. Like, I know, for instance, like, Shailene's talked openly about, like, thinking about, like, she took a break. She's like, I'm not sure I want to act for a minute. Like, did you have a bit of an existential crisis for a bit? It seems like, look, thankfully, in recent years, we have, you know, Guy Ritchie, we have White Lotus, we have this. You found kind of like your niche, but like, was there a period of kind of like figuring out what's next after something like that?

• 29:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, definitely. I think the experience was a mixed one for me and, you know, considering

• 29:29Speaker 03

  it wasn't like I'd always wanted to be an actor since I was two or whatever. We talked about the music and other things. So, yeah, it was more yeah, trying to figure out how to have a bit more control and how to do things that were satisfying in some kind of

• 29:49Speaker 03

  you know, it sounds pretentious, but in a kind of creative way to feel satisfying. I also went, found, I started which is a similarly hard thing to do, but I started producing and making things. And that was a big learning curve and hard as well. It's even harder, to be honest, because you, you know, as an actor, you drop in and if it's good or if it's bad or if it's an okay experience, you you do it and then you fuck off and you forget about it and then you do something else. But, you know, birthing something, hustling the rights from a newspaper, convincing the writer that you're the right person instead of, you know, selling it to a studio, then

• 30:32Speaker 03

  convincing a writer to write the treatment for less than they could get from someone else, then taking it out to pieces of talent and packaging it, then taking it to market, then making it for the budget that you didn't, you know, all those things. But what it afforded me was to kind of understand the industry a little bit more and understand the machinations of it. And that and a bit of age just made me a bit more relaxed, I guess. I think in my youth and in my twenties, I, you know, was quite kind of aggressive and

• 31:04Speaker 03

  wanted to have control where I didn't really have a modicum of control, honestly. So that afforded me. To to to relax a little bit, I guess. But but you know, the nature of the industry, you're you're always having existential crisis, honestly. And and that's not a bad thing. But but there there are there's there's great creative things to be gleaned from being an actor or or making, you know, a living from doing TV and film. But at the same time, you're not saving lives, are you? So sometimes you end up reflecting on on on the bigger picture and life is incredibly short. And what do you want your children to remember you for?

• 31:49Speaker 03

  You know, you need to make choices that feel true to yourself. And sometimes I think when you're a young actor as well, you you you compromise, you know, on your own sense of self and your own moral standing. And and I think probably not compromising is the stronger thing because in terms of longevity, in terms of your own self, that's gonna that's gonna be this hold you in the best regard for yourself and for for people around you for the rest of your life, you know. And again, that link film, which I I'm not doing because I'm changing the subject, but that has always fascinated me about the idea of the shortness of life.

• 32:28Speaker 03

  You know, there was a lot of death in my family and it makes you reflect and understand about how short the moment is, you know, and realizing that that we've got a pretty short time here and to take advantage of it and to to enjoy it while while you're here and and not and not compromise where you can.

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• 34:01Josh Horowitz?

  I would imagine then, an experience like White Lotus, you're soaking up every moment of something like that. You know the show has this amazing pedigree. You know Mike White is this unicorn of this creative force. And you've got a delicious character to play. I mean, how satisfying was it to play this kind of uber douchebag, if you'll forgive me? I mean.

• 34:22Speaker 03

  It was a gift. And there was some, you know, the only modicum of pressure and, you know, Megan and Adam and I would, and everyone would talk about the second season coming off the first one, which was so good and independent of auditioning for the second one. How do you kind of recapture that? Especially when it came out and it was a kind of a sleeper hit, the first one, you know, people weren't, it was COVID and it was post-COVID and people weren't kind of expecting it to be as nuanced and incredible as it was. But otherwise, it was, it was a real gift. A great cast. As you say, Mike is at the height of his powers.

• 35:02Speaker 03

  He's able to, to tap into a comedic understanding of greater and larger themes about, you know, humanity in a really fascinating way. And as a result, he's incredibly quick as a writer, he's incredibly confident. And those things embolden you as an actor. And again, that was kind of the first time, as you said about comedy, the first time I'd really been able to get back to it. And it was. Really so gratifying to do because it was like, oh, I feel kind of comfortable in this space. And in terms of him, I've said this before, but I I've just known so many versions of that character. I mean, you live in New York, you must have met those dudes. They're fucking fascinating. They're disgusting, but fascinating. And some of them, the charming ones, there's a lot of not charming ones who are just boring as fuck. But the charming

• 35:47Speaker 03

  ones, you love to hate, but also you like hanging out with occasionally for a few hours. You know, they're fascinating. So so playing and and and some of him is me as well, and some of him is based on, you know, these people we've met along the way.

• 36:05Josh Horowitz?

  I've been watching episodes of the new one. I feel like you and Patrick Schwarzenegger might have a good conversation. There's a there's a little bit of Cameron in in his character. I'll venture, maybe not on your level, but he's in the

• 36:17Speaker 03

  There's a bit of Cameron in everyone, even you.

• 36:20Josh Horowitz?

  Sadly. There's the warning of the day. Will Will Ferrell once showed off his prosthetic testicles from Step Brothers to me. Do you do you own the prosthetic penis from White Lotus?

• 36:33Speaker 03

  No, we used to play fight with it. We used to, you know, whack each other the head with it. We used to play Donkey Kong with it. No, of course I don't. What a freak I would be. Will Ferrell could get away with it. If I did that, I'd just seem like a fucking pervert.

• 36:48Josh Horowitz?

  Fair enough. Fair enough. We're good. Are we going to get more of the gentlemen? Have you been shooting? Is there? What's the plan for a second season?

• 36:54Speaker 03

  Yes, that we're shooting next year. I'm going to Seoul, South Korea next to do a really a great, one of the best scripts I've read for a while. Kim Ji Woo is a seminal Korean director and Hyeon is playing kind of my the the other character in it. It's yeah, so I'm doing that. And then I come back and I start season two, the gentleman.

• 37:22Josh Horowitz?

  Amazing. Amazing. Um, do you get more of a kick out of the James Bond stuff or do friends and family? When that's brought up, do you get? Does your phone light up with friends and family ripping you or saying, go for it, man? Yeah, we got you. Like, what what's the narrative within your own life? Or do you kind of just try to stay away from the betting odds, the whole thing, the James Bond thing?

• 37:43Speaker 03

  There's no narrative amongst my friends because they would say, you? Are you joking?

• 37:50Speaker 03

  And the adage, which I've said before, but was from one of my school friends, I'm still friends with now, is when it was, you know, it's muted to any fucking actor between twenty and forty. I mean, literally any male actor or female actress. Um, but, uh, yeah, the, the, the adage was, oh yeah, you'd be, uh, you know, the first Bondopolis, the, the, the Greek Bond, uh, with hummus and, uh, you know, uh, but, uh, no, it's not really something that's ever talked about, honestly.

• 38:21Josh Horowitz?

  You've never practiced in the mirror saying, Bon, James Bond, just to see if you can pull it off?

• 38:25Speaker 03

  Only in front of you, my friend.

• 38:28Josh Horowitz?

  That's between us.

• 38:29Speaker 03

  Covered in oil.

• 38:32Josh Horowitz?

  That's just for me. Have you done more, uh, musical auditions or superhero auditions in your career? I'm surprised neither has happened yet for you.

• 38:41Speaker 03

  Um, I've done, I've, uh, superhero or what was it?

• 38:45Josh Horowitz?

  A musical. Or a musical, yeah.

• 38:47Speaker 03

  Uh, I'd, I'd like to do a musical, actually. I don't think I've ever auditioned for one. Maybe I did a bad audition for, um, oh God, you know, uh,

• 38:58Josh Horowitz?

  Mama Mia, what do you got?

• 39:01Speaker 03

  Bridge Revolution.

• 39:02Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, Way Miss, Way Miss.

• 39:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I, I, and, and I've done some, uh, some over the years, especially when I was younger, but I haven't done one for, for, I mean, I probably a decade. Um, but I remember, uh, again, I've told this story before, but, so apologies, but like in my first year as being an actor, Conan the Barbarian was being cast, like,

• 39:27Josh Horowitz?

  Momo one, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 39:29Speaker 03

  And obviously, you know, it's not gonna be fucking me, uh, but I remember going, and I'm going in with, with a bunch of young dudes and we're all nervously waiting outside and we went in and, um, the, the, the, this, it was like a page and it said, the top line was, uh, do that and you die. And then the end line was something similar, whatever. So I went in and I said the line and then I said the other line and then Carl Stengel said, what are you doing? What about the whole bit in between? I said, oh, that's the bit when he rides, uh, uh, yeah, he's on a carriage and then he like stabs someone, throws a spear at someone and she's, gotta play that. I play terribly badly and I never do anything like that ever again, I think.

• 40:13Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, so sad. What about what about spandex auditions? You've worn a cape. You've worn spandex in an audition, I would venture. No.

• 40:20Speaker 03

  Oh, never, never, no. Have you?

• 40:23Josh Horowitz?

  And you're, yeah, me. I almost got Batman. Patterson just beat me out. Yeah, it's a shame.

• 40:30Speaker 03

  Never have. I it's well my life. I never I no, never, never. I'm I'm not hunky enough, I think.

• 40:37Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, that's that's the problem.

• 40:40Josh Horowitz?

  Um, but in our in our waning time, you're going to answer the happy, sad, confused, profoundly random questions, Theo. Are you ready?

• 40:47Speaker 03

  Do I do?

• 40:48Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 40:48Speaker 03

  Scatter shots quickly or can I think about?

• 40:52Josh Horowitz?

  Lean in, lean in. If you have some, you know, elaborate as you will. Dogs or cats? Are you are you a dog or cat guy?

• 40:58Speaker 03

  Cats.

• 41:00Josh Horowitz?

  Interesting. This is the minority opinion, but yeah, tell me.

• 41:04Speaker 03

  My my daughter loves cats and I always say, well, we can get a dog because I think it's kind of cooler to have a dog, right? You know, maybe in kind of.

• 41:13Josh Horowitz?

  No judgments. I would say so because I'm a dog owner, but that's just me.

• 41:17Speaker 03

  She loves cats, so um, that's good.

• 41:19Josh Horowitz?

  Okay. Okay, not going to argue with your your wonderful daughter. I would argue with you, but not.

• 41:27Josh Horowitz?

  What do you collect, if anything?

• 41:30Speaker 03

  I'm I love cars. I love old cars. Not that I have thousands, but obviously, but I me and my brother used to be really into that as kids and we he was better than me and we both had these old Mark II Golfs and we would do them up and when I say do them up, I I was always fucking terrible at it, but he would help me with it. But it kind of started my obsession with with cars. My first word was car. Um, because my bedroom window overlooked a kind of busy street and I would watch the cars go past. And sometimes double decker buses would come by and on the, you know, on the upper deck, they'd see some little kid being like.

• 42:10Speaker 03

  Um, so I, and I love, you know, the, the kind of the smells, the, they remind me of a time gone by. And I, yeah, that, that to me is my, my crux.

• 42:22Josh Horowitz?

  Nice. Do you have a favorite video game of all time, one you've spent too much time playing perhaps?

• 42:27Speaker 03

  I was never a huge video game guy, but at university, we used to play Tekken a lot and I enjoyed Tekken. Yes, Tekken, I was obsessed with for a short time. You?

• 42:38Josh Horowitz?

  Ah, I, I, I'm, I'm, I'm older than you, so I go back to like the Ms. Pac-Man. Um, yeah, I'm forty eight, man. I'm, I'm falling apart here.

• 42:47Speaker 03

  What are you doing?

• 42:48Josh Horowitz?

  It's a, it's over. Oil all the way. I just bathed myself in it.

• 42:51Speaker 03

  In your face.

• 42:53Josh Horowitz?

  Stop it. Go on, you.

• 42:55Speaker 03

  I didn't know you're forty eight. Very good. Very good.

• 42:59Josh Horowitz?

  Um, this is the Dakota Johnson memorial question. She asked me of this. It's a very important one. Would you rather have a mouthful of bees or one bee in your butt?

• 43:10Speaker 03

  I definitely want to be in the butt, right? Cause it's either gonna be very painful or you're, it's gonna bring you to orgasm.

• 43:19Josh Horowitz?

  Sensible thinking. What's the, what's the wallpaper on your phone?

• 43:24Speaker 03

  Kids. My son and daughter, yeah.

• 43:27Josh Horowitz?

  Last actor you were mistaken for?

• 43:31Speaker 03

  Um, yeah, God. It was, it was one of the Franco brothers again, probably last week. Actually, someone was like, excuse me, excuse me. And I turned around, I was like, here it goes. Are you Dave Franco? Fuck you.

• 43:50Josh Horowitz?

  That's earned very quickly.

• 43:53Josh Horowitz?

  What's, what's the worst note a director has ever given you?

• 43:58Speaker 03

  Um, I would say a, a, a non-vocal one, one of this. Hmm.

• 44:05Speaker 03

  Oh, do you have any thoughts and he knows he's like, we're gonna do something else. I'd say that was the worst.

• 44:15Josh Horowitz?

  Heartbreaking. I'll just go back to music. I'll try something else.

• 44:20Josh Horowitz?

  And then finally, in honor of happy sad confused, an actor who always makes you happy.

• 44:25Josh Horowitz?

  You see them on screen, you're happier.

• 44:27Speaker 03

  Okay. Or do you want to say, say them as you go? I thought you were gonna do, um. Fast spender. I love, I love fast spender's face. I think when you put a camera on his face, he just, whatever he does, he's just interesting. I like the lines on his face. He's got big eyes. He's interesting and he makes me happy.

• 44:45Josh Horowitz?

  A movie that always makes you sad.

• 44:51Speaker 03

  Probably that Italian movie, uh, God, what's it called?

• 44:55Josh Horowitz?

  Are you going cinema parody so?

• 44:57Speaker 03

  Life is not, no.

• 44:58Josh Horowitz?

  Life is, life is, oh, life is beautiful. Yeah, that's, that's the other one. Yeah. One of those two always comes up. Yep. And, and finally, a food that makes you confused. You don't get it. Why do people eat that?

• 45:10Speaker 03

  Oh, um, uh, uh, uh, Korean barbecue.

• 45:16Josh Horowitz?

  Really?

• 45:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, I just, it kind of, you, you, you end up coming, it's kind of brightly lit and you're a bit hot and.

• 45:23Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, it's the, the ambiance more than the food even.

• 45:25Speaker 03

  And you come out and you kind of sure it's a bit, you know, smoky and my face is covered in it and I'm crying. I'm scared. I don't know where I am.

• 45:36Josh Horowitz?

  Describe so many situations with you, though. Sweating, he's crying. What's going on?

• 45:42Josh Horowitz?

  Okay. No Korean barbecue when we hang out next. Uh, hopefully we'll see each other in person. It's been way too long, buddy.

• 45:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. What do you do it? You do it in a cool trendy room somewhere, right?

• 45:52Josh Horowitz?

  I run around New York, wherever they'll have.

• 45:55Speaker 03

  You don't have a.

• 45:57Speaker 03

  You don't have a.

• 45:58Josh Horowitz?

  No, no, no. But next time in your, your New York, let's, let's catch up. Um, honestly, congratulations, man. This movie, the reception so far has been huge, uh, justifiably so. Um, I hope it does great for you and, uh, that we can talk soon. Thanks as always.

• 46:13Speaker 03

  Thank you, brother. See you soon.

• 46:16Speaker 04

  And so ends another edition of Happy Sad Confused. Remember to review, rate and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley and I definitely wasn't prepared to do this by Josh.

• 46:35Speaker 06

  You've got your favorite blanket, a freshly poured drink, and a cold case burning a hole in your streaming queue. You're not just watching true crime, you're running the investigation from the comfort of your couch. Welcome to Murder She Watched, the podcast where we recap, dissect, and slightly overanalyze some of the best and craziest true crime documentaries on our favorite streamers. Did the spouse do it? Why is the shady neighbor wearing leather gloves in July? Why did this guy agree to be interviewed in this documentary? We ask the tough questions that you're often just screaming at your TV. So every week, we break down the twists, red herrings, and absurd documentaries that have kept you up all night.

• 47:19Speaker 06

  It's high drama, cozy vibes, and absolute couch detective energy. Grab your throw blanket and hit subscribe. Search Murder She Watched wherever you listen to podcasts, and let's solve this thing together.