68 Joseph De Sena: How to Overcome Obstacles and Achieve Peak Performance (Like a Spartan)

“Instant gratification kills ya.”For show notes and more, visit http://lewishowes.com/68 Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  This is episode number 68 with Joe DeSena.

• 0:07Lewis Howes?

  Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week, we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 0:33Lewis Howes?

  Hey, what is upgrades? Thanks so much for hanging out with me today on this special episode of the School of Greatness podcast. And I'm about a month away from the Pan American Championships with my brothers on the USA national team for Team Handball. And this was a great episode for me to really dive in and connect with Joe DeSena because of what he represents in his mindset, in his philosophy on life and sports. And what he's created with the Spartan Race is incredible. If you guys haven't heard about these kind of obstacle races that have been going around, there's Tough Mudder, there's Spartan Race, there's a lot of other, you know, copycats, as Joe said, people have created other events

• 1:15Lewis Howes?

  after seeing his success. And what he's really done for individuals to get off the couch and live a better, healthier lifestyle. And his philosophy is simple. It's to work hard, put one step in front of the other, and get the results until you finish. And for me, training constantly with all that I've got going on in my business and life and travel, you know, I've got to continue to stay focused and train and put in the grit, as we talk about in this interview. And he's going to dive more into grit and the hard work it takes to achieve the results that we want in our lives throughout this entire interview. So I was, I was so excited to connect with Joe. It took us about a month to connect

• 1:59Lewis Howes?

  because we had so much going on, but we finally did. And I think you're going to really enjoy this episode and all that he has to share. He's got some great stories as well. And without further ado, let's dive into this episode with the man behind the Spartan Race, Joe DeSena.

• 2:26Lewis Howes?

  Welcome back everyone to the School of Greatness. I am excited about this episode today and this interview because I've got a guy that I've been trying to get on probably about 20 times. We've never been able to connect. His name is Joe DeSena. What's up, man?

• 2:40Speaker 01

  How you doing?

• 2:40Lewis Howes?

  Doing well. I'm excited about this because we've been, you know, we've been introduced by mutual friends a few times trying to get on this interview. And I really love the message of your book, which is called Spartan Up: A Take No Prisoners Guide to Overcoming Obstacles and Achieving Peak Performance in Life. So I'm excited to just dive in and kind of learn about your story about, you're the creator of the Spartan Race. I'm excited to learn more about that. I've always, I've never actually done an extreme endurance obstacle course challenge, just because I'm more of a sprinter. So I've always wanted to learn more about it. My friends talk about it constantly. So yeah, thanks for coming on.

• 3:21Speaker 01

  Oh, it's my pleasure. Thanks for having me. I couldn't even get people to talk to me for most of my life. Now I'm doing a podcast.

• 3:27Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I see you everywhere now. So it's awesome. You're doing something right. So tell me, let's start off with why Spartan? What's your definition of Spartan?

• 3:35Speaker 01

  Spartan has so many meanings. It's so succinct. We're so succinct with those meanings, right? It's like, um, living that lifestyle that's not in abundance. Uh, being, uh, I don't know how aggressive I can be in terms here, but being badass.

• 3:50Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 3:51Speaker 01

  Um, just getting the job done, uh, gritty. And so, um, when we were coming up with a name, it just, uh, a light bulb went off and it just made perfect sense. I don't think there's been a, uh, group throughout history that purposely put them through, put themselves through such rugged training. I mean, uh, leaders, kings and queens would say back, back then, uh, Spartans actually get a reprieve during battle. When they go to war, it's like relaxation. Their training was, their training was so difficult. So, uh, I don't know. Those are the kind of people I want to be around.

• 4:28Lewis Howes?

  Right. Interesting. So why did you want to start this in the first place?

• 4:32Speaker 01

  I think with every generation, I mean, you've heard it over and over. I'm sure back in the twenties, moms and dads were saying, oh, the kids today. And in the forties, and in the sixties, and in the eighties. And in reality, every generation gets softer as we get more developed and we get more stuff. We protect our children more and more, and I think that's a mistake. I have children myself, and it's hard not to do it. Because you want to protect them and you want them to have all the things that maybe you didn't have. Information flows a lot more easily these days, so we're a lot more fearful of the environment.

• 5:16Speaker 01

  We're less active outdoors, and all these things have a negative effect on people. At the end of the day, we're animals. Somehow, we forgot. We think we're not animals, that we're supposed to be wearing bow ties and sipping cocktails and sitting in front of the TV, but our bodies and minds actually perform best in the environment they were designed for, which is outside.

• 5:41Lewis Howes?

  I like that, and I love your philosophy. It's so simple. I think it's pretty much the same philosophy that I have. And I wonder if it's because I'm too dumb to think of a better philosophy, or if it just makes sense. And yours is to commit to a goal, put in the work, and get it done. And it kind of sounds like that's what the Spartan Race is all about. It's, you know, the goal to finish. You got to put in a lot of hard work and do whatever it takes to get it done, is what it seems like.

• 6:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, we'd sell a lot more books. I mean, the book is going to launch here any day, May 13th. And you go back and forth. I've been writing this book for 30 years, by the way. But you say to yourself, Boy, if it was just about selling books, well, then having some tagline on it or a pill or a quick fix would be the way to do it because that's really what people want.

• 6:32Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 6:33Speaker 01

  We always want it easier, faster, cheaper, but at the end of the day, it's exactly what you just said, which is it's hard work. If you want to be successful, it's hard work. If you want opportunities, it's hard work. If you want to look good and feel good, it's hard work. And so really, the book is just confirming that. Look at any of the great people we point out in the book throughout history, they work hard. That's why they're great. And there's a lot of benefits that come from it. And here are a few things you can do to hopefully motivate yourself to work hard.

• 7:03Lewis Howes?

  Right. And I read on your website that you're on a mission to rip 1 million people off the couch into a healthy lifestyle. And where are you?

• 7:13Speaker 01

  It's bigger than that. We hit our million.

• 7:15Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 7:16Speaker 01

  Now I want to go to 100 million.

• 7:18Lewis Howes?

  Wow. And where is this, where is Spartan Race heading? I mean, it started in the US, correct?

• 7:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, so it started in the US. We're in 17 countries this year. We'll be in over 40 countries next year.

• 7:32Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 7:33Speaker 01

  And it's, so it's growing like wildfire. It's not easy because there's a lot of these little companies that are trying to, you know, copycat and basically ride a wave and take advantage maybe of some of the hard work we put in. And so that's a battle every day, but it's a battle. We don't shy away from, I love competition. So that's good. But our goal, our goal on like a lot of these little guys is to get it in the Olympics. We think it's the people's sport. And what I mean by that is it'd be really hard for you and I, I don't know how good of a basketball player you are, but I'm terrible. And it'd be hard for you and I to just jump in and play at a high level. It'd be hard to do

• 8:15Speaker 01

  that in baseball. It'd be hard to do that in any of the traditional sports. And so what we do is we sit on the couch, we watch those sports, and we drink beer and eat popcorn. This is a sport, whether you're a four-year-old child or a 74-year-old grandmother, you can jump in and actually play at a high level. The body's designed to climb, crawl, swim, do all these things that, you know, it's hard. You want to go do an Ironman? Yeah, that's good. You're not going to compete at a high level in an Ironman unless you're cycling, whatever, 10 hours a week. It's not realistic for most people. This sport, you can actually jump off the couch and compete in.

• 8:51Lewis Howes?

  And how many people do, you know, what's the average attendance on each event?

• 8:55Speaker 01

  Average would be about eight to 10,000.

• 8:58Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 8:59Speaker 01

  Now, our most interesting market is some of the markets overseas will get 20, 25,000 spectators in an event.

• 9:05Lewis Howes?

  No way.

• 9:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, unbelievable.

• 9:08Lewis Howes?

  Just like towards the end or each obstacle or how's it work?

• 9:11Speaker 01

  Or just throughout the entire course.

• 9:14Lewis Howes?

  They'll just kind of walk around and just, you know, go from place to place. Interesting. Wow.

• 9:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:18Lewis Howes?

  And how did someone train for this?

• 9:21Speaker 01

  So if you, obviously you should do a traditional exercise that we've all, we've all heard of, running, get into the gym, do some minimal weightlifting, do some body weight exercises, but if, but if you had to, if you put a gun to my head and you said, Joe, I can only do three acts, what would they be? They'd be pull-ups, no matter how terrible you are at pull-ups, jump up if you have to. They'd be burpees, no matter how awful burpees are you doing.

• 9:46Lewis Howes?

  So bad, I hate those.

• 9:47Speaker 01

  And it would be walking, running. So those three, those three exercises could get you through a Spartan race and, and as brutal as the Spartan race looks and feels and sounds, even if you found out there was a race tomorrow, you could get off the couch and you'd, you'd push through mentally and get it done. But if you want to do well, you do that. And then we put out a daily workout of the day and a daily food tip of the day. And we got like, I want to say 600, 700,000 people now, listening, reading, subscribing to those. And that, those will get in there free. Those will give you great tips.

• 10:24Lewis Howes?

  Amazing, amazing. And why is there so much mud in the Spartan races? I know you talk about this in your book, but why so much?

• 10:31Speaker 01

  No, we are, first of all, we don't define ourselves with mud. So, so there is mud. There are some races where we have no mud. But we define ourselves with obstacles and, but mud is interesting to me because we have shied away from it, right? Even my own children, my, my five-year-old and three-year-old, who are a little older now, I had them in their first race, I remember, two, three years ago, and they were running full speed off the starting line. And when they got to the mud, they stopped. And I was confused and I thought, wow, maybe these aren't my kids. And, and the reason they stopped when I studied it was because what we've been saying for their whole life at that point, five and three years. Don't get dirty, don't get in the mud.

• 11:15Speaker 01

  And, and, and we, all of us, you, myself included, um, we wanna keep our houses clean, keep our shoes clean, keep our clothes, like, that's not natural for, but yet, but yet it's very natural for the species to go out and get dirty and, and so, um, it feels really good when you, when you touch the environment that way.

• 11:36Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, when you walk around barefoot too, I always, I always feel more grounded and more in my natural state when I'm take my shoes and socks off.

• 11:43Speaker 01

  No doubt about it.

• 11:44Lewis Howes?

  Just feel the grass or the dirt, whatever, you know. Um, so, from, from my understanding, the Spartan Race was conceived from the Death Race, is that right?

• 11:54Speaker 01

  Uh, well, kind of, I mean, the, the idea was born, um, out of this Death Race, but it was really, uh,

• 12:03Speaker 01

  it was really, how do we create a military-style optical challenge? Something that's gonna get people natural, help them build obstacle immunity, um, to the masses. And, and, uh, and Spartan Race was really born in my kitchen.

• 12:17Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 12:18Speaker 01

  Um, and Ben, but the idea was we wanna reach the masses. Death Race is, is an intense, um, event that occurs, uh, once a year up in Vermont and then is for really, it's more like an exorcism, I would say that, uh,

• 12:31Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 12:32Speaker 01

  Spartan, yeah, Spartan Race is more like a baptism.

• 12:35Lewis Howes?

  Well, so, so what is the Death Race then?

• 12:38Speaker 01

  Death Race is, um, for those people that already maybe achieved, uh, a lot in life, whether it was had a bunch of children and, and survived that, or built a business, or whatever, they're at the top of their career, or, or they just got, God forbid, divorced or had some trouble and they need to clean themselves up and they're gonna enter hell for two, three, four days and, and, uh, no one's gonna pat them on the back, they're gonna purposely be broken. And the remaining few will, will finish it, but even the people that don't finish it are gonna learn a lot about themselves.

• 13:11Lewis Howes?

  Wow, and you've done this?

• 13:12Speaker 01

  I did it, yeah.

• 13:14Lewis Howes?

  Did you complete it?

• 13:15Speaker 01

  I did.

• 13:16Lewis Howes?

  You're one of the few.

• 13:18Speaker 01

  I'd be in trouble if I didn't.

• 13:21Lewis Howes?

  And what did you learn about yourself?

• 13:23Speaker 01

  Uh, well, at that point, this is gonna sound terrible, but at that point, I had already done a lot of very long distance races, uh, stuff, stuff, uh, longer than the death race. And, and so coming back and doing the death race, uh, was tough. Um, but it wasn't, it was like, so some of the races I talk about in the book that we did were eight or 10 day events and, and, you know, 30 below temperatures.

• 13:46Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 13:47Speaker 01

  Uh, the Iditarod, uh, by foot. Um, for example, in Alaska. So, um, in those races, I learned a lot about myself, which was, uh, the human, the human body will go much further than you think it can. And, and really the only thing that's gonna stop you is your mind. And so if you could figure out, which, which again, we touch a lot on the book, if you could figure out how to get your mind motivated and clear and not inhibited with negative thoughts, uh, you win. You win in relationships, you win in business, you just win.

• 14:21Lewis Howes?

  So how does someone get a clear mind when there's so much junk in it?

• 14:25Speaker 01

  You gotta have the proper frame of reference. So what do I mean by that? So like, let's say you were from Bosnia and I was from New York City. And for you to heat your home, the only wood you could find was your roof. And so you literally dismantled your roof to put it in your fireplace and heat your home. I, on the other hand, had a thermostat, set my temperature, everything was great. When you and I are facing obstacles in our lives, you're gonna approach them a lot differently than I will. Your mind's gonna be very clear, like, I just want food, water and shelter.

• 14:59Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 14:59Speaker 01

  And, and that's really the problem, like, like, there are very few psychologists in third world countries. They don't need them, people just wanna, they just wanna eat. They just wanna a, a bed, a place to sleep and some water.

• 15:11Lewis Howes?

  And they wanna feel, they wanna feel loved, they wanna have family, right?

• 15:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, and, and, and we get screwed up because we have such an abundance. You know, we, we, we studied Shackleton. And amazing, amazing story, right? Uh, the endurance was the name of, um, that expedition, uh, the famous expedition he went on and at, you know, I think they were, they were stranded for over a year, stuck in the ice. And at some point, he, he and one of his men had to leave and do whatever it was, a two day, uh, I'm sorry, two week, uh, trek or maybe two month trek to go get safety for all his men who were stuck on the ship. They tried to recreate that trek and with ten million dollars worth of gear, um,

• 15:59Speaker 01

  they all quit. They had to be rescued. The, the, the Shackleton didn't have to, and that's because he had no choice. He didn't have any gear. It was either live or die. And, and that's the difference between you and my example, living in Bosnia and me in New York, like, like you had, you're fighting for milk.

• 16:17Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 16:18Speaker 01

  Um, and, and so that, you know, if you can get yourself in mind, in that mindset, and I try to do it on a daily basis, and really Spartan Race is designed to do that for people. Um, get myself in this place, uh, Bernard Hopkins, the, the fighter.

• 16:33Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 16:33Speaker 01

  He, he says he fights like he's got no food in the refrigerator.

• 16:37Lewis Howes?

  Hmm, yeah.

• 16:39Speaker 01

  Right? That's, that's where you gotta get your head. Like, there's no option here. This has to get done.

• 16:46Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, there's someone else, I forget the guy, this, this famous like YouTube speaker guy, he says if, uh, you wanna succeed as bad as you wanna breathe, then you'll be successful.

• 16:57Speaker 01

  Oh, the pre, the rap preacher.

• 16:58Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 16:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 16:59Lewis Howes?

  Isn't that a great quote?

• 17:00Speaker 01

  That's my favorite quote.

• 17:01Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, it's great. I mean, it's, it's the same thing you're talking about. If you want as bad, you know, if there's no other option, if you're about to die, then you'll do what it takes.

• 17:09Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 17:10Lewis Howes?

  And you get very clear. Your, your intentions are very clear.

• 17:13Speaker 01

  That's right. There's no, there's no, there's no confusion.

• 17:15Lewis Howes?

  But does, I mean, you know, some people may think that's kind of extreme. Do I wanna live every day in this like stress? Like if I'm gonna die if I don't do this? Do you think that's too much for some people or you think that's the mentality we should take?

• 17:27Speaker 01

  Large part of the world lives that way. I mean, in reality, they're not, they're not making it up. Um, I, you know, I've been to some of those places and those people are very, very happy people. They really appreciate the little bit they get. I, I think, um, I think we, I think we in, in first world countries that have all this abundance, I think we do ourselves a lot of good. If we could change our frame of reference, as I mentioned in the book, which, which I do, I do by doing like some terrible exercise in the morning, take a cold shower. Now again, some people say, Joe, you're sadistic. Really? Am I? I don't know. I just, it helps me get through the rest of my day when. I'll tell you what's crazy. What's crazy is the person that's upset over silly things, whether it's traffic, whether it's coffee being too cold, whether it's the airline.

• 18:11Speaker 01

  The airline charges 20 bucks for a ticket and you see this guy or girl flip out in the airport online over it and it's like, are you kidding me?

• 18:18Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 18:18Speaker 01

  That's, that's not normal.

• 18:20Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. You know, it's interesting because. Whenever I go through some of my biggest challenges where I'm struggling in my life from my past, I feel like that's when I'm the most motivated. When my back's up against the wall or when I don't have, you know, there was a moment in my life when I was completely broke, living on my sister's couch for about a year and a half. In debt, that's when I was like so driven and focused and clear because there was no other way.

• 18:46Speaker 01

  No, I think that, that's why athletes, like when the athlete gets hurt in the Olympics, right? And then they come back stronger. That's why.

• 18:53Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. It's sometimes when I get comfortable and, uh, you know, don't get my hands, you know, dirty, uh, that's when. I start to relax and, you know, trying to take, take, um, take a day off mentally or whatever it may be. And that's, uh, sometimes when it holds me back from achieving my goals. So it's interesting you, your thoughts on that.

• 19:13Speaker 01

  Stay hungry.

• 19:14Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, stay hungry. And what's, uh, what's the biggest mistake you see people make when trying to achieve a goal? I know you talk about this in the book as well.

• 19:23Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, the biggest, um, mistake is I think they give up too soon. I mean, no, people don't realize how. Close they are to a, uh, finish line, uh, when they give up. If you look at most, uh. Failure stories, uh, they were so close. Look at, look at Thomas Edison with the light bulbs, right? I don't know how many. Light bulbs he messed with a thousand before he, he could have given up at 100, 200, 300. This guy just keeps going. And until he succeeds. So I would say. That, I would say, uh, that, that is a sign of instant gratification. Right? When you quit something, you, you're looking for gratification at that moment in time.

• 20:05Speaker 01

  And, and instant gratification kills you. If you look back, if any of us look back and see what mistakes we made in our life, it's always tied to just wanting something now and not being able to put in that extra time, pain, suffering to get twice as much later.

• 20:21Speaker 01

  I've hired people, I've been building businesses 30 plus years and, um, everybody always said I was crazy the way I hire, I always, people are on audition with me before we hire them. My resume doesn't mean anything, um, interview doesn't mean anything. Get out and let me see you work in the, we're in the rain here in Montana. It's, uh, it's cold right now and, um, the strong will survive. And, and you know, there's, we started with 20 guys and we'll, maybe we'll leave with 10 when it's over. But those 10, those 10, you know, put in the time and, and most of the time in life, you'll get twice as many rewards if you can withstand, uh, the pain and push through.

• 21:01Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, you know, I always talk about willingness to sacrifice and willingness to feel pain in order to get what you want. And I think not enough people are willing to feel and go through the pain in order to get the, the pleasure.

• 21:16Speaker 01

  I'll give you a great story. My son, uh, was five and I was, have you heard of the cookie test? Marshmallow test?

• 21:24Lewis Howes?

  I think I know where you're going with this, but go ahead.

• 21:27Speaker 01

  So, so back in the sixties, uh, put, you know, hundreds of kids in a room in cubicles, gave each kid a cookie or a marshmallow. Child had a choice. He could eat it then or he could wait at some point in the future, you know, minutes, a half hour, whatever it was. And, uh, they would get two cookies or two marshmallows. Most, most kids, most kids took it right away. The kids that waited, they followed for 30 years, the ones that waited and the ones that didn't. They found 100% correlation, not 92, 100% correlation between the kids that waited and better SAT scores, better life, better marriage, better house, better job. Everything in their life was better. And and uh so I tested my son. Had him a scoop of ice cream. It was ten o'clock at night.

• 22:13Speaker 01

  I'm scared because you don't know what you're gonna get. You might get somebody that, right? And um I he takes the scoop of ice cream and I say, hey, do you want one now or if you wait, I'll give you two? And we were about three and a half minutes in. And he turned to me and he said, Dad, how do I get fifteen scoops? How long do I have to wait? And that's exactly what what we have to learn in life. Is that uh you can't get it right now, but we're so used to having everything at our fingertips and having access to anything we want on demand. That um you don't realize that actually if you if you wait. Uh you get a lot more later in most cases.

• 22:50Lewis Howes?

  That's amazing. I mean, and this is kind of like the concept of delayed gratification, right?

• 22:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, that's exactly right.

• 22:57Lewis Howes?

  Right. In the Spartan world, what is the key to success?

• 23:02Speaker 01

  In the ra- in actually doing the race?

• 23:04Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, just in in the in the Spartan world. What is the key to success?

• 23:09Speaker 01

  In my opinion, just put one foot in front of the other. You know, somebody said to me once, um. What do you do if you bite off more than you you you can chew? My answer is you just keep chewing. So you you know, you'd be surprised um if you've got to go somewhere figuratively. Um or actually, uh the only way to get there is just put one foot in front of the other. My son, the one with the ice cream I just told you about. He he saw the uh we went to one of these events. Uh the weekend before the the Boston Marathon. And they were raising money. They had a treadmill set up. And so he got on the treadmill and if he could make it a mile, uh the store we were in would donate a hundred dollars.

• 23:50Speaker 01

  So he made it the mile and then we met some of the victims from last year's bombing at the Boston Marathon. He and he's a he's a young boy. He he's uh he's eight now. And he was moved by it and he said, oh, they're gonna have another bomb this year at the marathon. And he said to me, Dad, can I run it? Now, you can't, eight year olds can't run the marathon. So I said, listen. I said, I have a number, but if you want, I'll walk and run with you and we'll stay off to the side by the spectators. Well, the kid went twenty four miles. And and we were like seventeen or eighteen miles in and he turned to me and he said, I don't know. And I said, just keep putting one foot in front of the other.

• 24:26Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 24:26Speaker 01

  He went twenty four miles. So you'd be amazed at what you can do. You the only thing that stops you is your mind.

• 24:32Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 24:34Lewis Howes?

  It's interesting. Angela Lee Duckworth talks about

• 24:37Speaker 01

  I know her very well.

• 24:39Lewis Howes?

  Talks about grit and the key to success. And I'm, I'm doing some research for a book that I'm writing right now as well. And in your book, on page seventy six, you talk about grit as well. And how does, how does, uh, how does someone develop grit? And what is grit to you?

• 25:00Speaker 01

  I think, um, that's the big question. When I talk to Angela, it's, can it be developed? Or is it instinctual? And I believe it can be developed. And, and the reason I know it can be developed, I don't think I know it can be developed is because I was not gritty. I grew up, um, you know, the first 10 years of my life, my dad gave us everything, maybe 11 years. And, um, when he lost everything, um, I went from being a spoiled kid to quickly having to recalibrate, change my frame of reference and figure out how to get, uh, ahead on my own. How to, you know, my mother couldn't pay the mortgage. We were going to lose the house. We had no heat. Can,

• 25:40Speaker 01

  again, no big deal relative to third world countries, but it was a big change from where we came from. And, and, um, and I got gritty. And, and I got more and more gritty as I put myself in positions to, uh, win or lose, which, you know, I got into the construction business at a young age, swimming pools and construction.

• 26:00Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, that's not easy.

• 26:02Speaker 01

  Well, I, I, I keep thinking about, we have four children now, and I keep thinking, what's going to get these kids gritty? And as I'm sitting here on

• 26:10Lewis Howes?

  Manual labor.

• 26:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. I'm sitting on this construction site right now in Montana thinking, there's no better. When you're, you got a gun against your head to get the job done because you're going to either make money or lose money. Everything that can go wrong will go wrong. Machines run out of fuel, machines break. You go to buy a part for the machine that you come back to the site. You've got the wrong part they gave you. Uh, while four guys stand around that you're paying, uh, it starts to rain, it snows. I mean,

• 26:39Speaker 01

  It's the perfect grit building environment.

• 26:42Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 26:43Speaker 01

  So, so I'm a big believer that grit can be built. Now, if you don't have the opportunity to be doing construction work, every morning when you wake up, jump in a cold shower, do 300 burpees. That'll get you gritty pretty quick.

• 26:53Lewis Howes?

  It will, yeah. My, uh, my, my building is under construction right now and some of the days the water is turned off while they're redoing the pipes. So it takes like an hour and a half or two hours for the water to like heat back up for whatever reason, because I'm on a top floor and it takes a while. And so I've taken a number of cold showers lately and that's definitely a way to, uh, to get a little gritty. Um, I think I read in your book that you did, was it 10,000 burpees? Is that right?

• 27:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, these, um, the kids that work for me, it's funny, something happened to me last night like that, but these kids that work for me, uh, came up with this idea that, um, if, if we hit, uh, I think it was 3 million likes on Facebook that I would do one burpee for every, uh, like or share that day. And it came out to 10,247. It was terrible idea.

• 27:44Lewis Howes?

  Oh my gosh. So you did 10,000 burpees? How long did it take you to do?

• 27:47Speaker 01

  So I, I, uh, I had no plan. This was like on a Wednesday. I happened to be, I, I happened to be at Reebok for a meeting and they're big CrossFitters. And I tell them, I tell them about this situation because I'm really, I'm thinking, well, I could get people to do them for me. It could be like a community thing. And the Reebok guys turned to me and say, you know, if you could do 10,000, it would be like, people would fly you around the world. It would be so incredible. It's so motivational. So I said, all right, well, it's Wednesday. I guess I'll go for it Friday. I, I figured I'd do it at night. Um, around midnight I would start because then when I was getting really tired, the sun would be coming up and I'd get, uh, newfound energy.

• 28:27Lewis Howes?

  Oh my gosh.

• 28:28Speaker 01

  So midnight I start and I tell them, the guys that are filming me and, and watching me, do not tell me what number I'm up to because I don't want to know. It'll just screw up my whole head.

• 28:38Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 28:39Speaker 01

  So I'm doing them, I'm doing them, doing them. And it's about 8 a.m. now. I'm about eight hours in and I say to them, uh,

• 28:47Speaker 01

  Man, I haven't been able to eat because I'm burp- I keep going up and down and it's just screws up your stomach and I must be, I don't know what I'm up to, but I gotta know. And I pressured them and they said, you're just about over four thousand now, like

• 28:59Lewis Howes?

  Oh my gosh.

• 29:01Speaker 01

  Four thousand fifty and literally I was, I was broken. I was at a point where I had to go down and then like kneel, like

• 29:09Lewis Howes?

  Crawl up, yeah.

• 29:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, and crawl up. And I thought, if I keep doing them, it's gonna take me another twenty hours to do them at that pace and um and no one's gonna consider them real burpees. So um, so I convinced myself it was okay to do the remaining six thousand two hundred and forty seven over the next six days and I did them and so it took me longer than I planned, but I got them done.

• 29:32Lewis Howes?

  Wow, so it took you about a week or something?

• 29:34Speaker 01

  Took me a four thousand and a little over eight hours and then sixty two hundred in next six days.

• 29:39Lewis Howes?

  Oh my gosh, that sounds like hell.

• 29:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:44Lewis Howes?

  Were you like, you saw, I mean, what was your body like? Did you have blisters all over your hands and knees or what was it like?

• 29:49Speaker 01

  No, no, no, it wasn't, that wasn't bad. I just, I couldn't see straight and I was nauseous.

• 29:53Lewis Howes?

  Oh my gosh. Well, you must have, you must have lost a lot of weight that week too.

• 29:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, I did, I did.

• 30:01Lewis Howes?

  That's amazing.

• 30:02Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 30:02Lewis Howes?

  Um, so tell me more about your vision with Spartan Race and I know, you know, your goal's now a hundred million people to get off the couch and into a healthy lifestyle, but where do you see Spartan Race going and, you know, what's your vision for this at the end of the day?

• 30:20Speaker 01

  Um, we wanna be in the Olympics. We want it to be an Olympic sport.

• 30:23Lewis Howes?

  By when?

• 30:24Speaker 01

  At the end of the day. I mean, I, sooner the better, but, but uh, we might have to bump, bump ping pong out of this, out of the uh, Olympics to get in there.

• 30:33Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 30:33Speaker 01

  Um, I'm kidding, I don't know. But, but it's gonna take, it's gonna take some time.

• 30:38Lewis Howes?

  How, what's the steps to making that happen? Like, how does one even submit for an Olympic sport?

• 30:44Speaker 01

  So we first, we gotta get the governing body, which we're working on. And then we've gotta um get all these uh, countries lined up with little governing bodies around the world and um and all at the same time and talking to the IOC, which we've been doing and hopefully we uh hopefully we get it done and they accept us.

• 31:03Lewis Howes?

  Wow. And then when they accept you, is it like for the next one or would it be eight?

• 31:08Speaker 01

  I I I never built a sport in the Olympics before, yeah, so I don't I don't know how how it's gonna go.

• 31:13Lewis Howes?

  Fascinating. I mean, there were a bunch of new sports recent in the last Olympics, weren't there in the summer in the summer Olympics and the winter Olympics, right?

• 31:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:21Lewis Howes?

  So I guess it's possible. Interesting.

• 31:23Speaker 01

  Oh, it's definitely possible. I mean, look, uh, we didn't have, um, snowboarding not too long ago, right?

• 31:30Lewis Howes?

  Right. Now, what's, uh, you talked about CrossFit and I've I've been doing CrossFit for probably about three and a half years. A good friend of mine won it back in two thousand and ten, the the games and got me into it. And, uh, you know, they've built, uh, an incredible brand, incredible business and have, you know, I don't even know how many million people are doing it around the world now, but it seems like it's it's everywhere. Reebok's obviously a big sponsor. Um, what have has their business model inspired you in any way? Or are you taking on your own business model with taking over the world?

• 32:08Speaker 01

  Um, no, I I I I didn't know a lot about CrossFit until I had got involved with the Reebok relationship. So, um, I would say that's not really been an inspiration. I think it's helped a lot because there's a lot of people doing CrossFit that like to come do Spartan Race. I think we are, um, the place to show how they're living that lifestyle, to test their training. Um, very few people are gonna get into the CrossFit Games, so so they need another outlet.

• 32:37Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 32:38Speaker 01

  And and Spartan Race is one of those outlets. Um, if you come and look at the bodies, male and female bodies that are starting lines, um, you're blown away. I mean, they much different than a runner or or even a triathlete. Um, these people look like Spartans in the day.

• 32:57Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 32:58Speaker 01

  Yeah. And it's and it's it's because of the training that that it gets pretty intense, um, full body, full body training.

• 33:05Lewis Howes?

  Hmm. Will you just explain, I know you we briefly talked about the Spartan Race, you said some have mud, some don't have mud. Can you talk about kind of like a general what it is, how long it is, the obstacles that people face?

• 33:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. So this race right now, we're setting up in Montana. Uh, there's about seventeen obstacles. The first one, uh, we're calling Everest. So they're literally climbing straight up a mountain, a mile and a half. And, um, and then there's, there's gonna be low crawls under barbed wire. There's gonna be some walls to climb over, giant cargo nets on top of the mountain. Um, there's actually gonna be a mental test at one, one location. Uh, your podcast here will probably air after this race. So I could tell you what it is and I'm gonna want them to recite, uh, some presidents in order, not one through 10, because we've done that before the death race, but probably 11 through 20, which would be impossible.

• 34:01Speaker 01

  And, and, um, and but, but there's such a beautiful view from that location that, uh, when they fail that obstacle, they could sit and just reflect for a minute.

• 34:09Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 34:10Speaker 01

  Which people will find a hard, have a hard time doing, just sitting still. So that's an obstacle in and of itself. Um, and then they've got, uh, rope climbs, all, all kinds. It's gonna be, uh, it's gonna be an amazing course.

• 34:22Lewis Howes?

  Wow. And is each course designed by you and are they always different?

• 34:27Speaker 01

  No, I have, we have an amazing Spartan team that designs all the courses. This particular course, I do one a year, is, is me out here in Montana.

• 34:35Lewis Howes?

  Wow. Awesome.

• 34:39Lewis Howes?

  On page 142, you talk about the two most important factors that you've determined to personal success. Can you explain what those are?

• 34:50Speaker 01

  Um, for me, uh, it would be delaying, the ability to delay gratification and, um, and this ability to just can continue to push forward. Um, under it, you know, take, put one step in front of the other. Again, I, I've, uh, I've built a lot of businesses and building a business is like raising a child. It's just, you gotta be relentless. Uh, you've gotta have perseverance. Like, I would say if you had your choice, many people ask me, hey Joe, should I go for my MBA? And, um, You know, education's important. Obviously, I'm not, I'm not taking anything away from education, but, but if the goal is to get ahead or build your own business or make some money, um, education's lower, closer to the bottom of the list.

• 35:33Speaker 01

  It's really this ability to persevere and just suck it up and um, be very detail oriented. Make quick decisions. Indecision is worth than not making a decision.

• 35:45Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 35:47Speaker 01

  So, and a lot of people just don't have uh, or haven't developed those, those traits. That the biggest one, again, if we're only talking about uh, top two, the biggest one is this ability to just persevere and just be relentless.

• 36:00Lewis Howes?

  Hmm, going back to-

• 36:02Speaker 01

  They started calling me, they started, you know, they started calling me Fidel all around here because it's not often that I'm, I'm running the operation from the field. And um, because I sound like a dictator now. I sent a few guys home today that weren't feeling great and so I'm not like a terrible dictator. But the reason they're, they're not used to it. We, we put on these races all over the world and I'm, I'm not the guy typically driving that, that ship at these races. But what they're experiencing with me is that, is that what we're talking about, that persevere. I just, hey guys, you know, if we stay out an extra two hours, I know it's dark and it's raining, but we're gonna get this done. And, and now, three and a half days into it, they're saying, oh my God, we've, we normally take seven days to do. I can't believe we've done it in three and a half days.

• 36:45Speaker 01

  Well, it, it's not rocket science.

• 36:49Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 36:50Speaker 01

  Right? It would have been nice to go home early, but we have a job to do.

• 36:54Lewis Howes?

  Right, right. Now, talking about decision makings, you say you're, you know, I'm assuming you're great at making quick decisions. Uh, otherwise you wouldn't be able to do as well as you've been able to do. So how do you analyze situations then? And I know, like you said-

• 37:08Speaker 01

  Upside, downside, yeah, I, I talk about in the book, upside, downside, decision making. So like, what's the upside to this and what's the downside? And, and you can quickly um, figure out if it's worth doing this, whatever this is. Like, alright, what's the upside to staying an extra hour and getting this obstacle built versus the downside? Downside is guys will be a little, little more tired. The upside is, well, we could finish early. If we finish early, I could let all these guys sleep for a day completely. And then be fresh when we put on the race next week. Easy decision, we're staying out an extra hour. And, and, and, and there's lots of, um, lots of opportunities during everybody's busy life to make those decisions. And what I see,

• 37:51Speaker 01

  and again, we're talking to a million plus people, but what I see is people have indecision. I don't know, I'm not sure, that, that's the killer. Indecision is the killer.

• 38:01Lewis Howes?

  Why do you think so many people are paralyzed by making decisions?

• 38:05Speaker 01

  I think they're afraid of the results, right? I think, I think when you make a decision, you've got to commit. And, and, um, the outcome may not always be perfect. And, you know, I was, I was recently with, uh, the very elite force of our military without giving the unit's name. And, um, and the, and the commander of that unit, I mean, this is a unit, this is a pretty serious operation I'm talking about. And, and, and the commander said to me, well, when they're out at, let's say 40 years old, many of them don't go on to start businesses. And the reason is, and they should because they have all the qualities and traits. The reason they don't is because they've been winners their whole life. Everything has worked for them.

• 38:48Speaker 01

  They don't want to step out of their comfort zone and take that chance. And I think that's why people have indecision. It's, it's, it's, it's hard to, uh, live and die by that decision.

• 38:58Lewis Howes?

  Right. Can you share a few of your, I guess, mental tricks, strategies or techniques that keep you going in those, I guess, dark times during a race or during any Spartan race in life, let's say, that people are going through?

• 39:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, I, uh, for me, or, or for anybody else, um, when you're at that dark moment, here, here's what's going to happen. Here's the life cycle. It starts out with commitment. You click on the button and you step out of your comfort zone, whether it's a Spartan race or a marathon or whatever it is. Now you're committed. That's the highest level of excitement you're gonna see and feel until you until you come out the other side. Right. Whether it's starting a business, whether it's getting married, whatever. So you do that, you're feeling great, and then it's all downhill from there. And once it starts heading downhill, you you have to delay gratification. You've got to give up the glass of wine on Saturday night. You got to go to bed a little early. You got to find some better friends that have healthy habits. You've got to wake up early.

• 40:01Speaker 01

  So you're delaying gratification. Then the next thing that happens is it starts to get ugly. It's not exactly what you thought. You can't go any further. You're exhausted. Then people pile on and they start saying, well, I told you that was stupid or you shouldn't have done that. And then and then you get to this point where it's decision time. You're at that dark, dark moment. And when we looked at people that quit versus people that don't quit, it's really depends on their frame of reference at that moment. Are they fighting for milk like we spoke about earlier? Are they happy just with water, food, and shelter? Or have they been used their whole life to having everything and everything comes easy?

• 40:43Speaker 01

  And why would they possibly push through and deal with that pain? But when you do push through and you and you somehow find that grit and finish, that's where you learn a lot about yourself. And at that moment, you've just got to be able to tell yourself that it's it's just one step in front of the other, right? At mile, I can't tell you how many times I've been at mile 24 in a marathon or mile 90 in a in a 100 miler. And you don't want to take another step. You question why you even did it. This is stupid, right? This is stupid that I signed up for it. But we can't stop time. Time is going to keep ticking away, and it's going to tick away whether we stop and quit

• 41:26Speaker 01

  or we take the extra few steps to get the extra two miles. And I'll tell you why, because I've been I've been on both sides of that coin. Quitting lasts forever. You can't change you can't change the result. It just eats away at your brain. And and and the the euphoria of coming out the other side and finishing is is well worth it. And so I think some people just don't know. They've never experienced it, right? And it's hard. It's just hard for them to to take those extra steps so they. Hopefully, listen to people who have and and get it done. Because once it's it's addictive. Once you've finished and pushed through, you start to feel invincible.

• 42:10Lewis Howes?

  You want more, right?

• 42:12Speaker 01

  You want more.

• 42:14Lewis Howes?

  Want more pain.

• 42:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:16Lewis Howes?

  I like it. Now, you thought you've talked about your kids. Throughout this podcast and also in your book, you talk about your children. I believe you have four children, right?

• 42:25Speaker 01

  Four children, yeah.

• 42:26Lewis Howes?

  And what how has parenting changed you? And is there a Spartan parenting style as well?

• 42:35Speaker 01

  Parenting changed me because I used to go out and train four, five, six hours a day. And when those little crickets enter your brain, when you're in pain, like you and I were just talking about how to get through those dark sides. I would I would push through. I'd fight those negative thoughts. And I'd continue and finish my workouts or my training or races. When you have children, you lose the argument. What I mean by that is you're out there, let's say, training for four or five hours, or even right now, I'm in Montana. And you're feeling some pain. And and what enters your brain is, well, shouldn't you be home with the kids?

• 43:10Speaker 01

  And you lose that argument every time because you should be home with the kids, right? You you got one family, you owe it to them. And and so I can't train because of that I can't train and do the races I love to do. Because I don't want to miss this part of them growing up. And then on the other side, I I want to make them, I want to give them all the things I wish I would have had, but not not monetary. Not thing, you know, not stuff, but skills. And so they they and grit. And they train two hours a day. We have a we're lucky enough to have found a Kung Fu teacher from China who lives with us and and trains these kids.

• 43:52Lewis Howes?

  That's awesome.

• 43:52Speaker 01

  Two hours every day.

• 43:55Speaker 01

  And then on the farm down the street, there's a wrestling. Coach that comes in, he does some wrestling with them, so they learn how to do American wrestling, which is great. And we've got them eating healthy and my eight year old, pretty soon, he's got to start working. So.

• 44:10Lewis Howes?

  My gosh.

• 44:12Speaker 01

  We're gonna get him doing dishes at the local general store.

• 44:15Lewis Howes?

  That's great. Now, in a sense, I don't know if I heard this in your, you know, your conversation just now, but in a sense, has parenting made you a little softer?

• 44:27Speaker 01

  Uh, probably yes.

• 44:29Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 44:30Speaker 01

  Probably yes, I would say. I uh, now, people that watch me parent, I think would say, boy, he's a hard ass.

• 44:37Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 44:38Speaker 01

  But um, but yes, I think it made me a little softer.

• 44:42Lewis Howes?

  Gotcha. What's your, we got a few questions left. I know you gotta get back to building your course. Um, but what is, how important is team aspect of Spartan racing and also having the right team in your life? Whether it be your business, your family.

• 44:58Speaker 01

  Oh, I'm lucky. I mean, I, my team, I got, I got it. My wife is awesome, right? I mean, I'm out here in Montana, I'm gonna be gone for a while and even the guys are asking me, how do you do it? And I'm just lucky, like, going off on a tangent here, how many people are in the world? Eight billion? Let's just call it eight, right? So let's just say hypothetically, there's four billion men, four billion women. You're gonna hopefully find a mate and spend the rest of your life with them. Um, think about how ridiculous that process is, that we meet people in a bar. It's so random and you're gonna spend the rest of your life with that person. So, and that person is also a key to your success or failure.

• 45:36Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 45:36Speaker 01

  So, um, I don't know, I, I got really, really lucky. We randomly met at a race. So I think, again, going off on a tangent, I think it's important you look for a mate doing things you like to do. Cause there will be, uh, people of the opposite success at that, doing things they like to do and they'll coincide with you like to do.

• 45:55Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 45:56Speaker 01

  As opposed to, you know, unless you like drinking in a bar, if that's what you wanna do with your life, then you probably should look in a bar. But, but um, but the reason I, I said that is, is uh, the success um, in your life depends on the people you have around you. And so to have an awesome wife, which I do, and then uh, the kids, the kids, that, that's your job. It's my job, my wife's job to make sure they're awesome. The Spartan team we have in this business is, is second to none and it's along the same lines as what I just said about a mate. Um, the people that can be out here in, you know, thirty-five degrees and raining in the mountains of Montana, freezing,

• 46:35Speaker 01

  are the kind of people we wanna be around. And those are the people that, that, that kick butt and, and help us uh, pull off this mission.

• 46:43Lewis Howes?

  Right. Yeah, I'm a, I'm a big believer in finding the right team and it's hard to

• 46:51Lewis Howes?

  let go of people in your team too, right? Who maybe aren't working out.

• 46:54Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 46:55Lewis Howes?

  For me, that's the hardest thing.

• 46:57Speaker 01

  It's very hard.

• 46:58Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 47:00Lewis Howes?

  I'm a big believer in gratitude and I practice it daily. I think it's one of the keys to my, I guess, the success that I've had and my constant growth and humility. Do you, and I know you talk about in the book, but I just want to hear your answer to this. Do you practice gratitude daily? And what are you most grateful for?

• 47:18Speaker 01

  Well, I, I do and, and I'm most grateful for having a healthy body and mind and having a family that, that has the same. So I'm super happy for that. You know, people say, Joe, you can't sleep in that room because there's two people in there. You gotta, you know, we'll give you your own bed. Give me my own bed. I'm just happy that it's not raining on me while I'm sleeping. So, so I'm, I'm grateful for all the, all the things we have. I'm super grateful regarding having been to be a part of this business. Could you imagine? A lot of people don't get the benefit of doing something they love in their job. To be able to help other people

• 48:03Speaker 01

  really love this life, this Spartan life and, and, and have a business that, that has that all wrapped up into one. I mean, every day I'm grateful. I'm grateful to be alive. There's another little thing I do with myself is, uh, could be worse, right?

• 48:18Lewis Howes?

  Right. So I want to, I want to make sure everyone checks this book out before, before I actually ask you the final question. I've been training and I used to be a former professional football player. I played three sports in college, two sport All-American, decathlon and football. And I'm currently on the USA men's national team for a sport called team handball, which is big in Europe, but pretty much unknown in the US. And I train pretty intensely every single day right now for that sport and put myself through hell a lot of the times. And for someone like me who's got a, you know, a business, who's got a passion and plays a sport at a high level.

• 49:00Lewis Howes?

  Is it valuable for me to do an endurance obstacle course as well? And I mean, I don't want to put you in that category, but is it valuable for me to try the Spartan, Spartan race?

• 49:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think it is. In the same sense, I think it would be valuable for me to go learn handball.

• 49:15Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 49:16Speaker 01

  Like I know, and I say that because it's the same thing we talked about with that elite military unit. We have to all step out of our comfort zone whenever those opportunities exist because one, it changes you. Physically, it changes your brain. When you're uncomfortable and you have to deal with an obstacle, the obstacle for you would be doing a sport you're you're not used to and you're not the best at, like it would be for me doing handball. That physically changes and it puts an imprint in your brain. And and and we talked about Angela Duckworth and grit. That's how that happens. So yes, I think it would be extremely valuable to step out of your comfort zone and try a new sport. And and I can't think of a better one than Spartan Race. Not just because I'm attached to it, but because it happens to be loaded with obstacles too.

• 50:00Speaker 01

  Not just the obstacle of it being a new sport.

• 50:03Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 50:03Speaker 01

  So yes.

• 50:04Lewis Howes?

  So what's the next one in Southern California?

• 50:08Speaker 01

  I don't have dates in front of me, but.

• 50:11Lewis Howes?

  You're gonna have some this year, you think?

• 50:13Speaker 01

  I have a bunch. I have in the late fall, I have one in near San Diego. And I think in late summer, I've got San Francisco coming. So that's not too far. But yeah, you you you should definitely do one.

• 50:29Lewis Howes?

  Awesome. And then you have a whole schedule of all the events at SpartanRace.com, correct?

• 50:34Speaker 01

  We do, yeah. And the book is SpartanUpTheBook.com.

• 50:38Lewis Howes?

  SpartanUpTheBook.com. And make sure to check this out. I mean, I went through the whole thing. For me, I'm really inspired by what you've created. I'm inspired by what you write because I think it's you're keeping it very basic and it's what people need to hear. And it's the the simple basic things of working hard, having a goal and getting it done. What it's all about. It's not about these, you know, these tricks or these get get better fast, you know, instant gratification.

• 51:09Speaker 01

  No get rich quick here.

• 51:11Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, this is like get down.

• 51:13Speaker 01

  Get rich slow. This is get rich slow. We should make a new tagline.

• 51:17Lewis Howes?

  I like it. But make sure to check out the book. Again, you can go to. Spartanrace.com or Spartan, what is it? Spartan Up the Book?

• 51:25Speaker 01

  Spartan Up the Book.

• 51:26Lewis Howes?

  And it's called Spartan Up: A Take No Prisoners Guide to Overcoming Obstacles and Achieving Peak Performance in Life by Joe DeSena. And the final question, which I ask all of my guests, is what is your definition of greatness?

• 51:42Speaker 01

  My definition of greatness is, and it's gonna sound no different than everything we just talked about, but is doing stuff I don't want to do.

• 51:52Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 51:53Speaker 01

  Right? Like, like, I can't think of the author's name, but he just came up with like leaders eat last.

• 51:58Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, Simon Sinek. I had him on the show.

• 52:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, he's awesome, right? And so it's not, it's, a leader doesn't want to eat last. He's got to eat last. He's got to put his men first. I don't want to go out in the cold water, but if we've got something to do, I got to get in the, so I've always lived my life just stepping out. I met, I actually met my wife and have four children because I live life that way. I wasn't supposed to swim across a bay. My part of the job was done. And, and I looked out there and I said, I really don't want to do this, so I'm gonna do it. And when I swam to the other side, I met my wife, boom, married, four children. So you'd be amazed at what happens when you live that way. And that's, and that's greatness.

• 52:39Lewis Howes?

  Hmm, I love it. Thank you so much for all of the work that you do in the world, for your vision to inspire now 100 million people to get off the couch, for making the world a better place through your passion. I'm truly grateful for you and this world and the mark you're making. So thank you so much, Joe.

• 52:59Speaker 01

  Thanks for having me.

• 53:00Lewis Howes?

  My pleasure.

• 53:01Speaker 01

  See ya.

• 53:13Lewis Howes?

  And there you guys have it. Thanks so much for tuning in today on the School of Greatness Podcast with Joe DeSena. Make sure to check out this book. It's a pretty interesting read. And again, he doesn't have any get healthy or get rich quick type of strategies for you. What he's got is some great lessons and principles that are time-tested and proven. And I think you're going to really enjoy this book. It's really worth the read. It's worth checking out. It's worth giving to a friend as well, if you think that someone needs to step it up in their business, sport, or life. So, check it out. And you can go to all the show notes over at LewisHowes.com. And yeah, I am excited about what's to come.

• 53:57Lewis Howes?

  We've got a lot of great episodes coming up. If you guys, if this is your first time listening to the podcast, go ahead and subscribe to the podcast over on iTunes, on Stitcher, and on SoundCloud. And check out the previous episodes. There's been well over 60, I guess 67 episodes now. And there's some amazing guests we've had on here. And there's going to be some amazing guests to come. So, make sure to check it out. Subscribe. I would love it if you left a review over on iTunes. That really helps increase the rankings and gets this in front of more people in the world to get the message of greatness. So, I appreciate you for all that you do in sharing this episode, for listening, for being a subscriber. And

• 54:41Lewis Howes?

  if you want to say hi, go ahead and post a picture on Instagram and tag me @lewis Howes with where you're listening to this in the world right now. And I'll be sure to comment back. So, thanks again for all you guys do for being great. And make sure to go out there and do something great today.