NFL shakeups, NBA Finals & reality of change: AJ Brown, Myles Garrett, Jared Verse and OBJ headline a wild week in football as Ryan, Fred and Channing talk friendship, aging out, growing apart, and what it takes to keep going when things get tough.

“If we are teammates working towards same goal, how do we grow apart?”-Channing Crowder A Friday with the fellas as Ryan, Channing and Fred unpack the blockbuster headlines in sports this week from AJ Brown to Myles Garrett to Odell Beckham Jr to rising star Jared Verse, discussing how each situation could reshape NFL teams, locker rooms, and championship expectations. The Rams going all in, Patriots and Eagles are all the talk and OBJ reunites with his old team to see if the veteran star can shake up the Big Apple once again. From the gridiron to the hardwood, the guys shifts gears to share their thoughts on the NBA Finals, the biggest storylines, the pressure moments, and which players are built for the spotlight when everything is on the line. They make their picks and give respect to both Knicks and Spurs stars for one of the best championship match ups we've seen in years. As always, the conversation goes far beyond sports, as the trio gets real about the things that run them hot, talk why resilience matters when life gets tough, and how success often comes down to refusing to quit when everything points to giving up. They also explore a reality every athlete—and every person—eventually faces: sometimes people grow apart. Whether it's teammates, friends, or family, they discuss how relationships evolve and what it takes to navigate change without losing yourself. With Jay Z popping back out, dropping some new verses- the guys reflect on when legends age out and when to know it's time. Football, basketball, life lessons, laughs, and unfiltered perspective—it's another can't-miss episode of The Pivot Podcast. Pivot Family...comment, like, hit the subscribe button, we enjoy hearing and learning from you- the good and the bad, we want to know! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Good times mean competitions between you and your friends. Like seeing who can throw some pigskin the farthest, or rush the field the fastest. Winner gets an Ultra. Because it's not just a superior light beer, it's also giving fans superior access to their favorite sporting events. Superior is worth playing for. Visit michelobultra.com/superioraccess to enter. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2026 Anheuser-Busch InBev Michelob Ultra Beer, St. Louis, Missouri.

• 0:28Ryan Clark?

  Back with a three man weave Friday. Yep, it's just the fellas talking through the stories that keep the culture moving, the games you can't wait to see played, and the conversations that we have in the barber shop. Like, for one, does anything just make you irrationally mad? Like, you be pissed off to a point that you know you shouldn't be pissed off about that thing, but you can't stop being pissed off? Well, certain things make us that way, and we'll get into them. We also get into the biggest moves in football. Because is AJ and Jalen's relationship as solid as they make it seem? And what does this trade say about those two and the New England Patriots, Philadelphia Eagles? It also brought us to a conversation about grownups.

• 1:10Ryan Clark?

  Is it okay for adult people to grow apart as friends? Myles Garrett is now a Ram. What does that say about loyalty in the NFL? More importantly, what does that say about the Rams? I mean, they are all in. And we discussed, could another legend be coming out of retirement to get his second ring at SoFi? And our boy OBJ is back. What's the next chapter gonna look like? All I know is, he should certainly take the opportunity to write it. And that reminds us of Jay-Z, who popped out at the Roots picnic and showed once again that any room he walks into, he's the coolest guy there. Also, I didn't even know you could comb out dreads.

• 1:54Ryan Clark?

  We get into the NBA Finals, because that's where legacies are made. But whose legacy is gonna take the biggest jump? Wimby's or JB's? And after game one, it certainly feel like Jalen Brunson is on his way. But before we leave, I wanted to share a message about not quitting. Because I know it's tough right now, but you're in the spot where most people walk away right before a breakthrough. So pull up a chair, enjoy yourself and lock in. Cause it's a three man weave on the Pivot with me, Chan and Freddie T. And it starts now.

• 2:47Ryan Clark?

  Hey man, welcome to the Pivot, Pivot fam. Thank y'all for pivoting with us, man. Another three man weave on Friday. It's been a while. I just wanna know, man, you know, in the group text, I heard you got a little upset recently. And I'm just gonna say, man, that seems like a very irrational reason to be pissed off.

• 3:07Channing Crowder?

  Is it irrational? If I'm looking at the menu, RC, and I see that the steak is $81. Why do you remind me the steak is $81? Give me my goddamn steak Pittsburgh medium. After you ordered it? Let me get the big filet Pittsburgh medium. You know that's $81.

• 3:30Channing Crowder?

  That I just ordered. Bro, when you said the irrational thing, I said, man, I irrationally get upset when waiters remind me of the price. When the price is on the menu. I just saw, I just ordered that. I saw 81 next to it. I want that steak. Give me my goddamn steak and leave me alone? Bro, I get so hot when they remind me of how much something costs. I'm not gonna lie.

• 3:55Ryan Clark?

  You probably don't get irrationally upset about anything.

• 3:58Fred Taylor?

  Not like that, bruh. I'm more chill. And I'm trying to figure out what steak houses you eating at. Cause the ones that got like the real steaks, they not gonna say nothing about the price.

• 4:07Channing Crowder?

  You know, I-

• 4:08Fred Taylor?

  That's the question.

• 4:09Channing Crowder?

  You know, I'm kinda cheap. I go to some little slide off.

• 4:11Fred Taylor?

  That's what I was thinking. I don't always get overly upset, but something that does upset me, if you come to me for advice.

• 4:19Channing Crowder?

  Okay.

• 4:20Fred Taylor?

  And then I see you or I peep you, you do the complete opposite of the advice that I gave you. Like, why the F? Why the F, right?

• 4:31Ryan Clark?

  So slightly irrational.

• 4:33Fred Taylor?

  Why the F did you even come to me? Like, that's the one thing that really upsets me more than anything. Cause I value going in my brain saying, look, do it this way. Especially if I know the answer for a fact. You know, like even my son, 23.

• 4:49Fred Taylor?

  Amazing person, very intelligent. But I don't call him smart because he does dumb shit. You come to me for these answers and I give them to you because I have lived these experiences. And then you go do the complete opposite? Bro, why the fuck you coming to me? Why the F I'm in? I didn't mean to be so irrational, but that's that.

• 5:11Ryan Clark?

  I get it. I'm gonna be honest, I want my thank you. And I know people may think I get irrationally upset about this. But if I hold the door for you, and a lot of times, especially if I see a young lady or an older person, man or a woman, I'll hold the door for a long time. Like, I'll really wait. So you know I wasn't holding this door for my family and you snuck in on the back end. I'm legitimately waiting on you and you gonna walk through this door and not say nothing? I be wanting to say you're fucking welcome. Like, for real. You know what I'm saying? Or we on the plane and I might be in 2A, right? I might see that 4C look like they in a rush.

• 5:55Ryan Clark?

  But you know, if you in 4C, you fly enough. You know you not supposed to get off the plane till I'm off the plane. But you walk and I think you might, and I'll be like, oh nah, you could go ahead. I'm actually letting you go because you ain't supposed to go, but you not gonna say thank you?

• 6:08Fred Taylor?

  Much of thank you.

• 6:09Ryan Clark?

  And also too, if we are walking the, like, we walking the same path, right? And I turn my shoulders to move and say, excuse me? You supposed to turn your shoulders to move and say, excuse me, too? You don't get to just keep walking straight and not say, excuse me? And so people, ooh, ooh. Don't let me bless you and you don't say thank you. Do not let me hit you with a God, and I'm, I throw a God bless you out in the air. Like, you might sneeze over here and I don't know you're walking past, God bless you? So you not gonna thank me for my blessing? Bruh, if you don't reciprocate manners, that's gonna get me hot, boy.

• 6:47Fred Taylor?

  You forgot one.

• 6:48Ryan Clark?

  We what?

• 6:49Fred Taylor?

  Good morning.

• 6:50Channing Crowder?

  What you mean, "good morning"?

• 6:51Fred Taylor?

  Good morning.

• 6:52Channing Crowder?

  And nobody say "good morning" back to you?

• 6:54Fred Taylor?

  Don't say it back.

• 6:54Channing Crowder?

  Don't speak.

• 6:54Fred Taylor?

  Come on, man, say it back. You didn't hear me? You know I'm soft-spoken a lot. And I be like, "Damn, was I not loud enough"? Say, "Give me my good morning back."

• 7:04Channing Crowder?

  The last time I got arrested at Florida was the shoulder turn. When you in the club and it's that little lane, everybody going to the bathroom, and you give that little shoulder, and the dude didn't give his shoulder back and hit me straight in my chest, and I was in the Lethbridge County prison later that night.

• 7:22Ryan Clark?

  You know why? Because he had to actually try to do that to you, Channing, because you tried to move.

• 7:27Channing Crowder?

  I thought we was on some terms of, "Hey, you give, I give, we both gonna walk past each other. Now you jam your shoulder into my chest. Oh, we gotta lock up now."

• 7:35Ryan Clark?

  You know, something else that might be irrational, but sometimes has to be solved, is when wide receivers go for thousand-yard seasons and they hate the team that they're on. Or when teams win the NFC East and win Super Bowls and they're still unhappy in their situation. A.J. Brown finally traded to the New England Patriots. I mean, that was reported a while ago that this could possibly be happening. Obviously, for cap reasons, they had to wait until June. Freddie T., man, what are your, or what's like to you the most important thought when it comes to that trade?

• 8:12Fred Taylor?

  Not having a disgruntled player in your locker room affecting the mood of the entire locker room, which affects the mood and performance of the team. I mean, guys want to be happy. Clearly, he didn't want to be there. You know, the system, whatever, was dragging along. And it actually got worse when Saquon joined the team, because now the offense was centered around Saquon, which made them a much more dominant team across the board. And it's unfortunate that, you know, he didn't get the type of looks and the production that he felt he was capable of. I thought how he handled it throughout the season, he didn't say a whole lot.

• 8:57Fred Taylor?

  I thought that was professional, but at the same time... Clearly, the body language showed you exactly what he was thinking. At the very end of it all, I think if I were a Philly fan, I'd be upset on one, on one hand, but I'd also be saying, you know what? Thank you. Thank you for your time here, A.J., but I wish you luck and I hope you're happy now. And we're gonna see now if he can do what he thought he was holding him back. We're gonna see if he could do that with a so-called passing quarterback in a, in a Drake May.

• 9:32Channing Crowder?

  Actually, I'm upset by it that Jalen and A.J. Brown couldn't sit down and talk. They couldn't communicate because A.J. Brown's a dog and Jalen and all the conservative stuff and not make mistakes guy like he, he's not Joe Montana. We know that. But I'm upset that them two individuals couldn't go have dinner and speak about this as men. And now they, you know, saying isolate theirself and I'm upset and you're upset. Bruh, let's go grab something to eat. Let's talk about this. And that's what upset me because the Eagles were bawling and I think honestly, the Patriots went to the Super Bowl last year.

• 10:12Channing Crowder?

  So now Drake May and A.J. Brown, like I, I loved, I'm, I'd love to see what it's gonna do. It's probably, oh, nah, they got, uh, Josh Allen and D.J. Moore too in the AFC East. So they got some dogs over there, but I just hate that. What was it? Maria Taylor?

• 10:27Fred Taylor?

  Yeah.

• 10:28Channing Crowder?

  That, and she killed that.

• 10:29Fred Taylor?

  Yeah.

• 10:30Channing Crowder?

  She killed that with A.J. Brown. But I just hate that, like it's new age, social media kids. They don't sit down and talk to each other face to face. They wanna make everything media driven. And I think it could have been a way better situation, to your point, a way better situation if they sat and had lunch one time and talked about what I don't like and what you don't like and how we can meet in the middle.

• 10:55Fred Taylor?

  We don't know if that happened or not, first and foremost. We don't know the extent of their talks or conversations. What I think it comes down to is there are some limitations. I don't believe he thinks the quarterback is capable of enhancing his productivity. That's where it starts. He wasn't getting the ball. That's why he's not happy. Most receivers that aren't happy is because they are lacking in production to an extent. You know, I had two great receivers when I first got in the NFL. Keenan McCardell and Jimmy Smith. Obviously Jimmy was the number one. Keenan was just right here. There were times when Jimmy was wide open. Keenan was wide open. Jimmy got the ball. Keenan's like, I was open.

• 11:37Fred Taylor?

  Well, he was too. He just scored a touchdown, right? And there's not enough balls a lot of time for these guys, man. And I just think in their system, Jalen, he just wanted to be more productive. That's why they brought him there from Tennessee. But at the end of the day, the productivity didn't show in the statistical category. Now, from a matchup standpoint, he did what he needed to do because he called double teams that allowed everybody else to do their thing.

• 12:09Ryan Clark?

  I will say this. The trade obviously makes A.J. Brown and Jalen Hurts two of the most highly scrutinized players headed into this season.

• 12:23Fred Taylor?

  Yep.

• 12:24Ryan Clark?

  A.J. Brown now has to go prove that it wasn't him that was the reason for the numbers decrease the last two years. It was the system, or it was the quarterback, or whatever it is. And Jalen Hurts has to now go prove that under another new offensive coordinator, he could be the quarterback that we watched in two Super Bowls. That was a second team All-Pro and second in the MVP voting four years ago. He has to go prove that because now there's so many questions about him. I'm rewatching Power, right? And so I think back to A.J. Brown doing interviews from the Philadelphia Eagles locker room last year. And then I think about the Opening presser or his first time talking in New England.

• 13:09Ryan Clark?

  On one of them, he seemed like Ghost when he with Tasha. And then the other one, he seemed like Jamie St. Patrick when he with Angie. Right? He was lighter. He was talking about how Drake took over the meeting and how he knew so much as a young player and have that sort of initiative and all these things. And when people were killing Jalen last year, he never said anything. And they were killing Jalen, partly because of his play, but also because of the subliminal messages that AJ was sending. And he never once said, hey, man, that's my guy. That's my quarterback. We're going to figure it out, even if that wasn't what he think, because that's what teammates do. And so now, if you're AJ Brown, there's going to be a microscope on the sort of teammate

• 13:54Ryan Clark?

  you are and also the production. And then on Jalen's side, it's, hey, I got to go out here and show that without AJ Brown, with Devonte Smith as my number one, with Hollywood Brown, with some of these guys, I can go make plays. And so I think this trade has really put the focus on how these men maneuver going into the season. A question I did want to ask, because you talked about sitting down with one another. The thing that came out of the Maria Taylor interview that I found interesting was, he said, hey, nothing happened between me and Jalen. Wasn't anything about our wives or anything with me and him. We just grew apart. Right? Because you remember the FaceTime when they traded for him and all those things.

• 14:38Ryan Clark?

  As adults, how real is that, though? That nothing really necessarily has to happen, but we can now grow apart in our friendship and our working relationship?

• 14:49Channing Crowder?

  I think it's 1,000% true. As you mature, as you progress in life, as you have different situations, have different experiences, that two grown people can grow apart. And you hear that all the time with divorces. We just grew apart. Like, he cheated, she cheated, what happened? We just grew apart. We just look, we look, we're, we started at 22. Now we're 42. Good point. And we look at the world differently. And I think that's true. Kenny Smith said that. Kenny Smith said it. But on a team, though, if we're working towards the same goal, how do we grow apart? I don't have to, you, what's, what's your saying?

• 15:33Channing Crowder?

  All my teammates and my friends, all my friends and my teammates. Like, I don't need to, I don't need you to be my friend for me to hope that you can hold this B gap and contain this run, and me to go run through this A and make a tackle. And we both did our thing, and we gonna dap up. I don't, I don't need to go out there with you. I don't need to know your kids' names. I don't need to go to your mom's wedding, whatever it is. I don't need it. I think that's the difference in sports and life, is where you can, two grown people can have different angles in life, and I do believe grown people grow apart. But as a teammate, if we're all searching preseason for that Super Bowl, do what you're supposed to do. I'm gonna do what I'm supposed to do,

• 16:17Channing Crowder?

  and we can go get that chip later on together, and then we never have to talk to each other again. And I don't think people understand that locker rooms. There's teammates I don't like. But I don't wish that you miss a kick. I don't wish, I don't wish that you miss a tackle. I don't wish that you miss a block. It affects us all. Let's get a goal. Let's set that goal. Let's put that, that goal up here, and then let's go win as many goddamn games as we can together.

• 16:42Fred Taylor?

  Jalen seems like he's the type of person that'll do anything for the benefit of the team. He's a professional. It seems to me that this relationship is a bit one-sided. Jalen was just asked a few days ago at the start of their camp about the whole dynamic between he and A.J.

• 17:04Fred Taylor?

  And the way he responded, he was like, look, basically, he said, we're good. Nothing's changed there. I think everything's solid. I went to their wedding. We're good. But on the other side, AJ is saying, you know, we grew apart. I think it comes back down to AJ's performance at the very end of the day. Jalen is an NFL quarterback. You can't make everybody happy, man. You have to do your job. And that doesn't mean I gotta force the ball to you. This is my opinion. This is where I think the cookie started to crumble at the very beginning. It goes back to AJ knowing what his worth is, where he believes it to be. Because he hadn't been able to shine and be in that spotlight.

• 17:47Fred Taylor?

  He started feeling some type of way. Now he want out. That's all it comes down to. And he's blaming the guy who has to get him the ball. And then you throw the friendship and dynamic and relationship, you throw all that into the equation. And this is what we have. That's my take on it. I think AJ, to an extent, is just kinda... I like AJ, but I think this is somewhat of a prima donna type move.

• 18:13Channing Crowder?

  But back to that, quickly, the conversation of that. Let's go sit down with me and watch film. Bruh, I was wide open right here. You talking about Kena McCardell and Jay Smooth. I was open right here. When we run this play, I'ma get this corner right here. Look my way. I'ma get him. Like, why can't they talk about it?

• 18:32Ryan Clark?

  I'm sure the football conversations were had. And there was a level of frustration there. But everything around those two was built up to be that they had this amazing friendship.

• 18:45Channing Crowder?

  Who did that?

• 18:46Ryan Clark?

  Right. They did. You remember when AJ Brown was acquired, everybody showed the FaceTime between Jalen Hurts and AJ Brown. That's why Maria asked the question in the way that she did. That's why AJ answered in the way that he did. We never viewed this as a quarterback and a wide receiver. We viewed this as two people who were close before they became teammates. Now, when you have a separation from a person for years, they grow in ways that you don't. Right, like friends who I haven't seen in a long time because I had been working or because I was living in Pittsburgh or Washington. You get around them and you realize eight years down the road, I don't have as much in common with you as I had then.

• 19:29Ryan Clark?

  And so now when we sit and talk, I can have a good night with you. I don't need to have five good nights with you. I don't need to go on vacation with you. I don't need to work with you. I don't need to talk to you every day because where our lives are, are so different. It's hard to see that with two really good championship level professional football players because a lot of our life is the same. Right? We, you know, A.J. just got married. Jalen just got married. So you wonder how that happens, but what A.J. said is real. Sometimes you just grow apart. Mm-hmm. Right? Sometimes the way you see life, even the way you might see ball, the way you might view

• 20:11Ryan Clark?

  locker room relations or friendships or whatever it is, is different. And we gotta let that be okay. Right? Because if they didn't know each other before this and they decided that they weren't that close, we wouldn't have a problem with it. We have to let A.J. Brown go to New England and be the best player he could be and that Jalen Hurts gets to do the same thing in Philadelphia because no matter how close they ever were, those contracts, those independent contractors, their lives are individual, their careers are individual.

• 20:43Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Good times mean competitions between you and your friends, like seeing who can throw some pigskin the farthest or rush the field the fastest. Winner gets an Ultra. Because it's not just a Superior light beer, it's also giving fans superior access to their favorite sporting events. Superior is worth playing for. Visit michelobultra.com/superioraccess to enter. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2026 Anheuser Busch InBev Michelob Ultra Beer, St. Louis, Missouri.

• 21:14Ryan Clark?

  I do wonder though. Philadelphia to New England, not much of a climate change. Cleveland to Los Angeles is a climate and a culture change.

• 21:25Channing Crowder?

  McVeigh, McVeigh out there.

• 21:27Ryan Clark?

  Bro, I saw, here's the thing, I saw Jared verse get off the plane, he looked happy. You think Jared happy to be?

• 21:34Channing Crowder?

  No, nobody's happy in Cleveland, Cleveland's terrible. Cleveland is terrible, I don't know if y'all wanna, you know, I don't want y'all, you know, I'll be the guy to say it. Cleveland is terrible. They got bone.

• 21:47Ryan Clark?

  They got what?

• 21:48Channing Crowder?

  Bone.

• 21:49Ryan Clark?

  Bone? Thugs at home any.

• 21:51Channing Crowder?

  Man, listen, man, I was in Cleveland, T G, Teddy, Teddy Gann took me to Cleveland for a week. I left three days, I said, T G, I'm not staying here for no week, this is garbage. All the clubs are in the bottom of hotels, no windows, I said, T G, I'm not staying in Cleveland, man, I'm sorry.

• 22:10Ryan Clark?

  No strip clubs?

• 22:11Channing Crowder?

  Strip clubs are down there by a little dirty river or something, bro, I swear to God, bro. Cleveland is terrible.

• 22:21Channing Crowder?

  And, you know, verse I knew, we fooled with verse. He was on the show, but yeah, that move?

• 22:27Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 22:28Channing Crowder?

  It was, it's the Aaron Donald effect.

• 22:30Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 22:31Channing Crowder?

  You have the best defensive player in the world and win a Super Bowl. Then you go and get the next best defensive player in the world? Come on, man. I bet Sean McVeigh, he said, listen, we gonna maximize Matt Stafford's last two, three years. And that's exactly what they did. That move, when I woke up and saw that move a couple of days back, I was like. Yeah, Sean, you know what you doing. Why not? And then they talking about Aaron Donald coming back. Aaron Donald comes back and you put Aaron Donald and, and, and Myles Garrett on the same side? They ain't gonna block him, they gonna just pee their pants when the ball snaps.

• 23:13Channing Crowder?

  What are we talking about? And he leaves her like. Coach, they gonna show their shoulders in the sideline, and then the quarterback's gonna get his neck blown off. I'm telling you, this is, this is one of the most genius trades I've seen. What's his name, Les Snead? This is one of the most genius trades I've seen in a long time.

• 23:30Fred Taylor?

  Yeah, what RC said the other day on IG, he loved when those type, when that, that Ram, you know, team show up. They don't care about them picks, F them picks. You know, and Les Snead, he was genius when they went out and acquired all of the veteran talent that helped beat Tampa in the NFC Championship, then eventually go on to win the Super Bowl. I think we're seeing the same type of makeup right here, man. But I'm, I'm, I'm happy for Miles. You know, give a great player an opportunity to really go get a ring. Let's be real, he wasn't gonna get a ring in Cleveland. His career.

• 24:07Channing Crowder?

  You don't think?

• 24:08Fred Taylor?

  No, not at all.

• 24:10Channing Crowder?

  He gonna sit by that dirty ass creek.

• 24:11Fred Taylor?

  Not at all.

• 24:13Channing Crowder?

  And go to them little clubs with no windows.

• 24:15Fred Taylor?

  It was so much to get in there. Offensive troubles, all types of stuff, new coach, like, it was a whole lot going on. But to give him my opportunity to go out there and potentially, you know, be in the hunt for it, that just means a lot to at least the Cleveland organization for letting him go. And then how aggressively the Rams went after it. And now, the big question on AD. Is he gonna come out of retirement? I would love to see that. Not just to, to see him get another opportunity to get a ring, but to see that is possible because, one, football doesn't necessarily retire you, unless you have a career injury. He didn't, he retired very young, and the question was why? He still had a lot left in his tank.

• 24:58Fred Taylor?

  And what we see from him on Snapchat or Instagram, he is still throwing up hundreds and hundreds of pounds. He's still like, but he's squat. He, he still has a lot.

• 25:10Channing Crowder?

  Did you see what his wife said, though?

• 25:11Fred Taylor?

  What she said?

• 25:12Channing Crowder?

  She said, mm. They trying to convince her, though. Yeah, they trying to get around, because her wife was like, that, to your, to answer your question. Yeah, Erica like, nah. She was like, nah, nah, nah, man, we don't need that. We got a real life. We got life now, I get to see, I get to see my baby every morning. He ain't up.

• 25:29Fred Taylor?

  That's the special part, but, yeah, go for it, RC. I didn't see it, but you got a happy wife. We know the rest.

• 25:37Ryan Clark?

  Very short list of people, you know, see if y'all agree. Lawrence Taylor. Reggie White.

• 25:46Ryan Clark?

  J.J. Watt. Aaron Donald. Myles Garrett is on that list. Here's the only way his name continues to be in that conversation is to get out of Cleveland.

• 26:02Ryan Clark?

  You know, outside of J.J. Watt, we saw all of those men execute at the highest level on the biggest stage. Myles Garrett's never had that chance. You trade him for Jared verse, who had seven and a half sacks last season, four and a half the year before. Myles Garrett had five sacks in a loss last year for Cleveland. This is Les Snead and Sean McVay saying, when Sean McVay stood up and clapped when Matthew Stafford said he was coming back, here's what it told me. He ain't here for a long time. He ain't looking to rebuild. He ain't looking to start over. Remember he told us on this show, he had to rededicate himself?

• 26:45Ryan Clark?

  He had to make sure this is something he still wanted to do? And I think he wants to do it with the outlook of winning a championship. Les Snead, F them picks works for that man. The last two times they had first round picks, they traded him anyway. Jared Goff and Jared verse. And if your name Jared, you don't want to get picked by him. They gonna trade you. Because you finna be gone. This is Sean McVay saying, the reason we lost because we couldn't get stops. I know I could score points for Matthew Stafford and Pukun Nakua and Kyron Williams and Devonte Adams. Let's go shore up the back end. Let's go get McDuffie and Watson. Now let's go get Myles Garrett.

• 27:27Ryan Clark?

  Let's get the next best generational talent at the position, just like we had with A.D. And now we might team him. If I'm A.D., I don't start the season. I Eric Weddell it. When it's time for me to come back, when you feel like you need me, I'ma be ready. And you know when you plug me in, I can still do it. He ain't 45. He ain't 40.

• 27:50Channing Crowder?

  Thanksgiving? He gonna play at Thanksgiving?

• 27:52Ryan Clark?

  Thanksgiving. I'll come back then.

• 27:55Channing Crowder?

  Feast.

• 27:55Ryan Clark?

  Bro, the Rams have done everything they need to do to go win it. You got one of the best coaches in the world. You got one of the best quarterbacks in the world. You have the best defensive player in the world. This how you go make it happen. And AD, fill it out. Come back when you're ready. Buy her a big gift for Thanksgiving. Don't make her cook. She be alright. She be alright for the stretch run. Hey, um.

• 28:23Channing Crowder?

  I gotta throw, I gotta throw Sap and JT on your list. Your list was amazing. I'm not disagreeing, but I gotta throw my two buddies. I gotta throw Sap and JT.

• 28:34Ryan Clark?

  So the only thing about the list was, and this is in my opinion, I think Lawrence Taylor is the greatest defensive player to ever play. I think the one person in that conversation is Reggie White, who, by the way, Myles Garrett is second to in, what, nine years in sack total? But Aaron Donald, three Defensive Players of the Year. J.J. Watt, three Defensive Players of the Year. That's to me, the difference in where Sap was, where JT was. It's like, these dudes just kept doing it and kept getting the accolades. But both of those Hall of Fame players, I totally agree.

• 29:08Channing Crowder?

  Shout out, big dog.

• 29:09Ryan Clark?

  Yes. So, okay.

• 29:11Channing Crowder?

  Oh, straight.

• 29:12Ryan Clark?

  Hey, Jay-Z popped back out. We talking about AD popping back out. Jay-Z popped out with an old freestyle, taking shots, bang, bang. You know what I'm saying? My question is this. Should old people, because we are old people, should old people stay inside and stop doing young people things?

• 29:31Channing Crowder?

  I don't know. Should old people be old? Yes. Why is Jay-Z arguing that NBA young boy, whatever his name? Like, bro, yes, be old. Raise your babies. Why do you like, they sit there, you looking at, it's like people looking at the little computer screen and shake and shake, and then they have to say, bro, just be old. Especially if you're amazing at something. If you're great, be great. Freddie, you were great. Be great.

• 30:02Channing Crowder?

  And be old. Just be old.

• 30:05Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 30:05Channing Crowder?

  There's no reason to try to do anything like that. It's cra- man, I saw that with Jay-Z. I was like, Jay, man, I love you to death. My favorite song is "In the World," is bam. Like, you are, you are one of the best musicians in the history of time. Why are you coming to arguing at these people?

• 30:22Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 30:23Channing Crowder?

  Just sneak away. I just saw the Michael Jackson biopic. He was so secretive that, like, everybody was wondering, like, what he's doing. But now I'm seeing these old-ass people act crazy. I'm like, they should, they might go to microwave. Like, what does Michael have to prove? What does Jay-Z have to prove? There's nothing Jay-Z can do moving forward. Honestly, I believe this. Y'all tell me if I'm wrong. Is there anything Jay-Z can do moving forward to better his legacy?

• 30:52Fred Taylor?

  No, not, not in terms, not better.

• 30:54Channing Crowder?

  So why? So why even talk about these people or care about their opinions?

• 30:59Fred Taylor?

  That's his sport, right? You know, if you're gonna come out of retirement, you wanna be able to say, I can play with the best of them. I don't think people hate old rappers, per se. I think they hate old rappers that try to sound young. When you talk about music, people going, musicians, artists, they go and do residencies, they tour, and you gonna pop out. And you gonna go and check them out. Everybody was so excited to see Jay-Z come out at the Roots picnic, right? As so they are excited to see him perform later this summer. You're looking forward to that. It was just the contradiction that came about, you know, when he went at Drake and when he dissed all these other people.

• 31:41Fred Taylor?

  That's the part that's been the headline, more so than just the old guy rapping. Because people were looking forward to it. If he didn't diss those other people, I don't think we would even be necessarily having this conversation. It was the, the sport of it all that brought Jay-Z back out. When he literally was just in an interview and he said, I think that should be out of hip-hop. That should be out of rap. Like, the, you know, the, the dissing each other and all of that. But that's hip-hop. That, that's, that's the sport. That's the core of it in a lot of sense. Or a lot of it, that's what it had gone to, so. I ain't got no problem with Jay coming out. Jay is an all-time great. Rock and roll Hall of Fame artist.

• 32:26Fred Taylor?

  It was just the contradiction in his just recent words. It's kind of what got people talking. Other than that, I think it's cool for the sport. It's cool for music. Go for it. That's what it grew from.

• 32:39Ryan Clark?

  As somebody who's currently old, or at least. You're old, you're old. Old, or at least. You're old. I feel like there aren't a ton of careers and passions that people get to grow old in. Right? Like, TV is one of those things.

• 32:58Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 32:58Ryan Clark?

  Like, you can do TV for a long time because it doesn't tax your body in that way, and as long as your mind is sharp. Football isn't that way. Basketball, like, so sports aren't that way.

• 33:08Fred Taylor?

  Golf.

• 33:08Ryan Clark?

  Right? You know, yeah, golf maybe, but like, entertainment could be that way. Sometimes you can have this longevity like Denzel, and then some people hit it for a little bit, then they're gone. Like, the fact that Jay-Z is so relevant now allows him to continue to be a part of his passion, which in many ways to him is his purpose. And the sport of it all was what we saw. And I think people get it wrong. Like, today, like, people are younger than they've ever been at older ages. Right? Freddie T is 50. He don't walk up in here in a cardigan and hard bottoms to do the pivot.

• 33:49Fred Taylor?

  He's just wearing Stride rights.

• 33:50Ryan Clark?

  You know what I'm saying? Like, that's not how it works. And so, we have to get to the point to where we realize that wisdom is not a number. Wisdom is experience. Right? Wisdom, and wisdom is an action. Right? People look at wisdom and age as if it's like this thing that just happens. And now, all of a sudden, the way you behave is in this benevolent way because your experiences and your adversities have shaped you into this thing. No, it's like the actual action of feeling something and processing it in a way that says, "I have a certain level of knowledge." When you process the way he did, and now this is your answer, you do open yourself up to criticism, to scrutinization.

• 34:35Ryan Clark?

  But there's also nothing he could ever do that takes away from all that he's already done. And so, to me, as long, and this is truly, honestly.

• 34:46Ryan Clark?

  As long as people will clap for you, pop out and give them something to clap for.

• 34:53Ryan Clark?

  Right? You go, you go away when you wanna go away.

• 34:57Channing Crowder?

  Honestly, Biggie and Tupac got killed. That's when they stopped. Wayne's early stuff is way better than Wayne's late stuff.

• 35:04Ryan Clark?

  Yes.

• 35:05Channing Crowder?

  The Carter and all that stuff, the blueprint and all of that, he's not gonna duplicate that. So like you said, football, sports retires you. When do, when do artists retire? Cause Jay is never going to be what he was.

• 35:23Ryan Clark?

  If you're an artist and whatever you dream of being on, or whatever idea you have, no one cares, then that's when you retire, right? Like, look at Jeezy, right? Jeezy may not be able to go do the runs he used to do, but now he's found this way to incorporate all of his fans into this new age, new approach to the same trap music, right? So you can keep doing that because people keep showing up, right? If he would've popped out and they'd have been like,

• 35:58Ryan Clark?

  then yeah, stay at your house, count your billions. But that ain't what happened. Like, think about Odell.

• 36:03Channing Crowder?

  I like trapping Jeezy over LLC Jeezy.

• 36:05Ryan Clark?

  I get that. I have a question, right? Look at Odell.

• 36:39Ryan Clark?

  He's coming back. He started that comeback on this show.

• 36:46Ryan Clark?

  Right? Are you saying that now that he has an opportunity and he can't be this Odell? That he should be done?

• 36:53Channing Crowder?

  That's a, that's a great question. If he's not a one, can he be a three? Can he be a four? Oh, was not catching a hundred balls this next season for the Giants. But can he be a, can he be a three or four? If he wants to do that, but like that, even with Jay-Z, even I, you know, bring up, you know, these different late career guys. If you're okay to be on top and then to be a three. Cause Odell was one A. Odell was all pro. If you're okay to be a three when you were all pro and moved down, you do what you want to do. And I think that's where Odell will be. And I hope he gets a job and, you know, he was on the show, he talked about all the stuff he went through. It's like seeing Jay battle rap.

• 37:38Channing Crowder?

  I'm like, bro, you, you the same guy I listened to 20 years ago with that? And now you're sitting here arguing at these kids? Don't argue at these kids, bro. You Jay-Z. You, you're, I, I guess you're above that. I guess Odell in my mind's above being a three. In my mind.

• 37:55Fred Taylor?

  Is it chasing legacy or relevance, right? I, I think for me, just knowing Odell, I, I think it's, it's more than relevance, right? Uh, I think he wants to put a stamp on his legacy and what we all thought, uh, he could have been. More so than just trying to go out and prove to everybody else that he still has it. The trajectory in which he was on, all of us could agree that he was on a trajectory to say he was going to be one of the top five receivers to ever play the game. And I think for him, man, it's just a, a matter of just coming back out to kind of cement that. I'm glad he has an opportunity, especially after talking about it, that he still wanted to play on our show here.

• 38:40Fred Taylor?

  Now he has that opportunity where he can go out there and we'll see what happens. Being a former one, you know, so elite, you know, it can be frustrating at times to be, have to sit on the sideline and be older and it takes that much more to kind of warm up and really get into the game. Those are going to be the big questions that he has to answer. Or maybe he can just be a great teammate and show the young guys, have him a league there. You know, being able to guide him and, and, and show him how to be a pro and giving him his toolbox. So I can, I think he being, he can be an extreme asset to the locker room. And really it's going to come down to how much he really wants it. Great player, I'm rooting for him.

• 39:21Ryan Clark?

  Odell Beckham Jr. is a living legend. This is a man that changed a culture of humans' lives based on football. They had big, swole, grown men with blond mohawks.

• 39:38Fred Taylor?

  Frosted tips.

• 39:39Ryan Clark?

  Who never should have had highlights because of Odell Beckham Jr. Right, like kids started tying their hands behind their backs to learn to catch footballs because of him. I don't know what there is for him to do that could ever, ever equal that feeling that he had when he was on top of the world, when people would chase him down the streets by the hundreds when he was in foreign countries. But I looked into his eyes when he was sitting there, he's not ready to be done. He needs something else to happen. He needs another football experience, opportunity, whatever it is,

• 40:23Ryan Clark?

  so he could say, "I've done enough, I could go rest." And I think that every player who has unceremoniously left this game wishes they had that. Wishes they had that chance, wishes they had that workout, wishes they had that offseason. So I'm glad he gets it. He's not going to be what he once was.

• 40:48Ryan Clark?

  And when he was talking to us, it seemed like he understood that. But he wants a chance to be everything he can be now, whether it's for Darius Slayton or for Calvin Austin, whether it's for Malik Neighbors, who is like the next Odell Beckham Jr. in New York, to go be that dude. And if he catches 35, 40 balls, it feels like he's a part of something big in a place that gave him his first opportunity to become a star, then that's great, man. It's always something that we're looking for or chasing, and until we catch it, we're just running. And nobody wants to be like that hamster on that hamster wheel, or that player on that treadmill.

• 41:33Ryan Clark?

  So hopefully, man, he gets it. I'm not rushing him to retire, and I hope nobody else would. We not talking Knicks, Spurs? Yeah. We been doing a lot of football.

• 41:46Fred Taylor?

  I'm sure about giving that word, but a little bit ago, you were saying the Spurs, you was questioning the whole Spurs. We talked about it.

• 41:53Channing Crowder?

  Man, listen, I think, I just think the Spurs are more talented. I just seen it, they got guard play, they got the, the, the. Wimby is probably the most talented athlete in the world with what he can do. Can you name somebody else, seven foot four, run the point, like any other sport, even Shohei Ohtani and them boys? Wimby is the most talented athlete in the world? I just think sooner or later, it's gonna come through. I just, I'm going with the Spurs.

• 42:21Fred Taylor?

  Yeah, I like the Spurs too, Chan. I said it, uh, one of those shows. You know, when you look back at the regular season, and the regular season is a regular season for a reason. The Knicks won the NBA Cup, they beat the Spurs by 11. Then they split in the actual regular season 1-1. It seems that the Knicks had the upper hand. The Knicks has the experience. The Knicks have a cast that were college teammates that won championships, they know each other really well. It seems that the Knicks are set up, from an experience standpoint, to go out there and do their thing and maybe win it. But for some reason, man, the alien has arrived, bro. You just mentioned him. Alien has arrived.

• 43:04Fred Taylor?

  Regardless of what happened a few days ago, Spurs in five.

• 43:08Ryan Clark?

  That's my take. Yeah, I don't know if it's Spurs in five. Well, they're fine. You gotta go back to Madison Square and win games. And the battle between these teams during the season, there was always this outlier that happened that this game was different than what this series could play out to be. This is gonna be like the first time they really, after game one even, the first time they really get to see each other and learn about each other. I will say this, man. This series will define two separate players' legacy. Yeah. If Wimby goes on and wins this series, all the talk about him for the rest of his career,

• 43:52Ryan Clark?

  until he proves one way or another, is if he can be the greatest basketball player we've ever seen. The measurables are undeniable. The talent is undeniable. The competitiveness is undeniable. It's gonna be about the success. The individual success, the team's success. If he wins at this point, at an age younger than many of the stars who are in that conversation, the astronomical expectations put on him from when he got to the league will even be more extensive. And if Jalen Brunson wins this, it changes his legacy forever. It changes his legacy from the player who was consistently doubted

• 44:37Ryan Clark?

  to a bona fide superstar and Naismith Hall of Famer. Mm-hmm. The small guard who's not athletic, who can't carry a team, who can't be a 1A, wins a championship against the most freakishly talented big man we have ever seen. So that's what this series is about. Yeah. It's gonna define two different stars and who they can truly be. And so I think this is one of the more interesting and exciting. Finals and to have a rematch of what we saw between Knicks and Spurs. Shoot, what was it 28 years ago? It's pretty dope.

• 45:21Channing Crowder?

  The little guard narrative. I hate that because we all watch AI. We all can see little guards can ball. The organization lets little guards down.

• 45:31Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 45:32Channing Crowder?

  That's what it is. I hate this little, little, anybody under 6'2 can't win a championship. No, how about you put some, some around them so they can win? Because every team wins a championship, not a guard wins a championship. I hate that little guard narrative. I've heard the whole thing about Brunson. Bro, Brunson's a monster. Second round pick? Brunson's a monster and he's gonna be a monster moving forward. Let's put something around him so he can go get him a chip.

• 45:56Ryan Clark?

  I'm excited to see how everything plays out. It's the, the best part of the basketball season. And it's right before there's nothing on TV but the streaming networks and golf.

• 46:08Fred Taylor?

  And the pivot.

• 46:09Ryan Clark?

  So, well, I guess we, we're kind of on TV.

• 46:12Fred Taylor?

  No, we count. Yeah, what's crazy guys, man, I, I didn't let y'all know, but I want to give y'all, boys, an update. I've been behind the scenes grinding. Pivot Performance Energy, we're in over 150 stores now. Shout out to that. All throughout Florida, but since everybody else has been on the move, man, we've been on the move. I just want to say, if, if, if you go on pivotenergydrink.com and look at the store locator, we're at a store close by. Y'all asked for it. I'm just giving you an update. There it is, man. I hope y'all proud of me. Been, been really grinding.

• 46:42Ryan Clark?

  Congratulations.

• 46:44Fred Taylor?

  We make it happen, for sure.

• 46:45Ryan Clark?

  Before it ends, I saw a post the other day, Mel Robbins, actually. The post said, "You're doing it right. You're just in the space where other people quit." And, uh, and I needed that, that day. I went to church Sunday and I was walking, I go to a very diverse church. And I was walking out and people always speak to me, say hello, love you on TV, this and this. There were three older men on my way out. They all stopped me and told me, "Thank you for what you do for the community. Thank you for how you represent for us. Thank you for how you're willing to speak up." And I needed that because I was battling with like every time I say something about things that may not be about sports or even about sports and.

• 47:31Ryan Clark?

  Speaking from my perspective, the way that things get twisted and people picked it apart, and thinking to myself, are higher-ups at my job paying more attention to this than the sports Emmy-winning work that I do? Than what I give each and every day to make sure not only myself is prepared, but that everything I'm on elevates? And just walking out, man, like, I was just tired. Like, I was praying in church that day, like, I was tired of fighting people. I was tired of working to be understood. And I just realized, man, like, that's the, that's the trick of the enemy.

• 48:06Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 48:06Ryan Clark?

  Right? That's the trick of the devil. To make you feel like the thing that is authentically you, the thing you feel deep in your soul, the thing that moves you every single day, is the wrong thing. And so, just to anybody, man, who feels like they keep doing and they keep sacrificing and they keep grinding and it's not happening, do not quit. Do not give up on yourself. And you may not have somebody that comes and cheers you on. You know what I'm saying? Cheer yourself on. Because, like, if you believe in it, man, that means, and you feel right about it, that means God has you where you're supposed to be. Whatever space you're in, whatever season you're going through, is to have you prepared

• 48:51Ryan Clark?

  for the next one. And this is the Pivot. We see y'all on Tuesday.

• 49:20Speaker 04

  Every game day, you show up for your team. Now, it's your time.

• 49:25Speaker 05

  We go V.

• 49:29Speaker 04

  We go V. Ask your prescriber about Wegovy. Someaglutide injection, 2.4 milligrams a GLP-1. Call 1-833-4-WEGOVIE or visit wegovie.com to view the medication guide and to learn more about Wegovy. Why wait?