113: I Reject Heaven and Hell, It's BORING

This week on The Broski Report, Fearless Leader Brittany Broski explored Victorian Fun Facts, discusses her fascination with hedonism. The OFFICIAL Songs of The Week Playlist: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/3ULrcEqO2JafGZPeonyuje?si=061c5c0dd4664f01 👕 Get your merch here: https://broski.shop/ Follow The Broski Report: https://www.linktr.ee/broskireport https://www.tiktok.com/@broskireport https://instagram.com/broskireport Follow Royal Court: https://www.youtube.com/@royalcourt https://www.tiktok.com/@bbroyalcourt https://www.instagram.com/royalcourt https://www.twitter.com/bbroyalcourt Follow Brittany: https://www.tiktok.com/@brittany_broski https://instagram.com/brittany_broski https://youtube.com/brittany_broski ICE OUT OF OUR CITY / PROTEST RESOURCES: ACLU – https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/protesters-rights Immigrant Defense Project – https://www.immigrantdefenseproject.org/raids-toolkit Freedom for Immigrants – https://www.freedomforimmigrants.org/resources Immigrants Legal Resource Center – https://www.ilrc.org/community-resources/know-your-rights Immigration Justice Campaign – https://immigrationjustice.us/ CREDIBLE RESOURCES TO HELP FREE PALESTINE: Palestinian Children’s Relief Fund - https://www.pcrf.net/ UNICEF - https://www.unicefusa.org/stories/helping-gazas-children-cope-trauma Doctors Without Borders - https://donate.doctorswithoutborders.org World Central Kitchen - https://wck.org/ World Health Organization - https://www.who.int/ Headcount - https://www.headcount.org/ IG ACCOUNTS FOR A FREE PALESTINE: @eye.on.palestine @aljazeeraenglish @palestinianyouthmovement @byplestia @motaz_azaiza @impact LGBTQ+ RESOURCES: https://Translifeline.org https://Glaad.org https://Pflag.org https://www.thetrevorproject.org/ REPRODUCTIVE RESOURCES: https://aidaccess.org https://plancpills.org https://Ineedana.com https://www.reprolegalhelpline.org/ https://heyjane.com Brought to You By: Hungryroot – Get 40% off plus a free item for life athttps://hungryroot.com/broski with code BROSKI ZocDoc – Find your doctor athttps://zocdoc.com/broski Shopify – Start selling today! Get your $1/month trial athttps://shopify.com/broski Songs of The Week: Death Kink by Fontaines D. C. Sha Sha Sha by Fontaines D. C. Big by Fontaines D. C. CHAPTERS: 0:00 – Intro 0:45 – Caffeine 1:38 – Victorian Fun Facts 7:50 – Bacchanal & Madness 11:25 – Heaven & Hell (Greek Mythology Version) 19:18 – Bacchanal & Madness Cont. 45:53 – R. F. Kuang 49:55 – Alice in Wonderland 51:18 – Songs of The Week 51:52 – Outro #brittanybroski, #broski, #broskination, #broskireport, #victorianera, #reddit, #greekmythology, #mythology, #romanmythology, #dionysus, #bacchus, #zeus

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds, up to $200,000, right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 0:36Speaker 01

  Direct from the Broski Nation headquarters in Los Angeles, California, this is the Broski Report with your host, Brittany Broski.

• 0:45Brittany Broski?

  So cool and statue welsk. Control yourself, says Georgia. Welcome to Balelsk. Hello, ma! So little else. Little little smoke. Welcome to Balelsk.

• 1:11Brittany Broski?

  Hey, guys, welcome back to the Broski Report. Not much to report. I am experiencing caffeine overdose. Caffeine overdose. And I am wondering, what, at what level is it I'm in a dreamscape? At what level, you know, like, can't feel my hands? I feel like I've got double vision. I feel like, I feel like a white walker. I had so much damn caffeine, I turned into a white walker. So I just really feel like the way Killian Murphy's eyes are so icy blue in that one scene of Oppenheimer, put it up on the screen, you know the one I'm talking about, when

• 1:53Brittany Broski?

  the camera's real tight in on his face and it zooms in and he's, and then it's the music playing in the background as the bodies, he's stepping over charred bodies. That's how I feel. I've had so many fucking Red Bulls.

• 2:08Brittany Broski?

  Here is something that I wanted to look up today. I want to look up because we're sticking with the theme of my gorgeous, beautiful set decorated by me. If you can't tell, I decorated the table. I don't know, some of you bitches are saying in the front, I need to change the lighting. I need to move the shit up to the front, but I can't because then it would fuck up the lighting of the whole show. And fuck up the lighting of the whole show and it's fucking the lighting in the green screen. So I can't fucking do that. Just stop telling me to do that.

• 2:35Brittany Broski?

  Anyway, what we're gonna do today is some more Victorian fun facts because they were eating mummies and fucking each other. And they were eight years old and being drunk. So I think that that is cause for curiosity ultimately. And I'm going to go ahead and dive into that. So where any normal person would store is of course reddit.gov. Just gonna move these, move these inches out of the way.

• 3:01Brittany Broski?

  Perfect. Perfect. If y'all have any questions on this piece, save it, keep it to yourself. What's a weird fact you know about the Victorian era? This is r/askreddit. People poisoned themselves with green dresses, most specifically because of the dye substance, which was arsenic. We know this. Taxidermy was huge. They collected many pieces and more notable, the works of Walter Potter, who would create taxidermy such as kittens having a tea party. Now, is this that shit where like the mice or, you know, where he'll set them up and the mice will look like fairies and whatever? Yeah. The curious world of Walter Potter. Now, how do we feel about taxidermy team?

• 3:46Brittany Broski?

  Because I don't love it. Okay, hot take, I don't love taxidermy. Kind of freaks me out, actually really freaks me out. Why was it so, like, why were bitches? People love taxidermy. Like, there are those people who collect the, you know, safari jungle animals. Like, taxidermy and that shit goes for millions of dollars. Why? Why? Is it some weird conquest over nature thing? I don't know. Walter Potter, 1835 to 1918, damn, he lived a long time, was an amateur taxidermist who built tableau that became icons of Victorian whimsy. A new book by historian of taxidermy,

• 4:30Brittany Broski?

  Dr. Pat Morris, and New York-based artist and curator Joanna Ebenstein seek to preserve and celebrate the now dispersed collection with new photographs of his best works. Okay, so this is a monkey riding a goat. Sure. Okay, wait. Okay, wait. Rabbits Village School. This is so fucking morbid, though. Like, what? Potter wanted 50 baby rabbits for the village school, but despite asking around in the local villages, he could only get the 48, of course, that are here engaged in scholastic activities. The pupils are about a month old. Did he really use baby rabbits? Like, stop. Like, they're holding pencils. This

• 5:13Brittany Broski?

  is making me feel... They're cute. Are they real?

• 5:19Brittany Broski?

  Oh, maybe I don't like this. This is nuts. The Death and Burial of Cock Robin. What? Who is Cock Robin? This tableau is nearly two meters long and took Potter about seven years. It features 100 British birds, some crying with glass tears in their eyes. Now, see, he clearly was an artist. Why did you choose dead animals as your medium? I'm afraid of you. At the end of the day, what you did here is kind of impressive, and I'm afraid. So. What the fuck? Look, they're little birds. Oh, this is making me sad. I don't like this. I don't like that. I don't really. I'm not fucking with Walter

• 6:02Brittany Broski?

  Potter. I don't know what Walter Potter was doing. In 1853, the vaccination against smallpox, a deadly airborne disease, was made compulsory. If parents refused to have their babies vaccinated, they were fined. It's so interesting to think about how we handled COVID when, like...

• 6:21Brittany Broski?

  An epidemic, a pandemic, is not new to the human race. You know, we're very vulnerable, weak creatures. How have people and governments handled it in the past? And was it considered successful? Was it considered blasé? Was it considered not enough? Was it too much? Like fining people, all that, you know? It's like, all of these are viable options to get people to vaccinate their kids. But at the same time, like, what? I don't, I don't know. I think it's interesting to read about it. Smallpox was one of the most common causes of death in Britain at the time. It had a mortality rate of 30%. Those who survived were often blinded and/or scarred. Victorian Health Reform.

• 7:02Brittany Broski?

  This, this act was a part of a series of laws that make vaccinations mandatory for the public. The 1853 Act made it compulsory for all children to be vaccinated within the first three months of their lives to protect them against smallpox. If the parents of these kids refused to comply with the law, they were subject to pay a fine and could even spend time in jail. What? Immediately after the passing of the 1853 law, resistance to vaccinations began among the public. Violent riots occurred in Mitford, Ipswich, Henley, and various other towns. And that same year, an anti-vaccination group, there's always fucking anti-vaccers. The Anti-Vaccination League was founded in London and provided an outlet for those who were opposed to the new laws. Okay, do you want to know?

• 7:44Brittany Broski?

  I'm actually going to just pivot really quick because, and the light is also making my eyes burn, so. And I had 100 million cups of coffee, so my body's kind of failing right now, if you guys don't mind. My body's shutting down on camera, not clickbait. And my bangs are sliding off my fucking head. Here's something that I have been interested in since my first read of The Secret History by Donna Tartt. The idea of a bacchanal. Bacchus. Bacchus. Dionysus.

• 8:17Speaker 01

  Hey, it's Nile Rodgers, host of Before the Moment, a Lincoln original series. I'm driving across the country, meeting some of today's most fascinating artists. We're exploring the stories before the moment that changed everything. This week, I'm joined by rising star Sienna Spiro.

• 8:37Speaker 03

  I love the 60s. I feel really jealous that I wasn't alive for it. I'd be interested, like, knowing what that was like and seeing the way culture and art has progressed today. How do you find it?

• 8:47Speaker 01

  Wait a minute, I'm really...

• 8:48Speaker 03

  I'm sorry, I have so many questions. Sorry.

• 8:50Speaker 01

  You're not nervous, are you?

• 8:51Speaker 03

  I am nervous.

• 8:52Speaker 01

  You are?

• 8:53Speaker 03

  I am. I feel like insecure about my experience. I know I shouldn't, but, you know, I'm 20. I haven't really lived my life yet. And then sitting in front of somebody that has lived an enormous life is intimidating. And sometimes I feel like talking about myself is just not as interesting. So that's why I feel a bit nervous. I'll try and ignore it, though.

• 9:12Speaker 01

  Please do. Experience Before the Moment, a Lincoln original series on the iHeart Radio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 9:22Speaker 04

  Cash Flow Crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds, up to $200,000, right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 9:52Brittany Broski?

  The idea of carnal elation, the idea of indulging one's senses to a degree that is hedonistic. The concept of a bacchus, and I'll go ahead and define that here today, right now, or I guess a bacchanal. Bacchus is the Roman god of wine, revelry, and ecstasy, known for his association with fertility, vegetation, and the liberation of the spirit. He is the Roman equivalent of the Greek god Dionysus and is depicted with his followers,

• 10:31Brittany Broski?

  the Maenads and Siders, in frenzied celebrations. And Siders, which British people pronounce "satires," that's something different. That's something different in America, by the way. These are, a satyr is the classic Mr. Tumnus, right? Is Mr. Tumnus a satyr?

• 10:56Brittany Broski?

  He's a fawn, not a satyr. I'm humiliated. I'm fucking humiliated. I'm humiliated. While both are mythical creatures with the upper body of a man and the lower body of a goat, Mr. Tumnus is a fawn, a gentle, peaceful woodland creature in contrast to the wilder, more aggressive nature of satyrs in Greek mythology. Okay, but they're both half man, half goat.

• 11:19Brittany Broski?

  So fuck C.S. Lewis and his interpretation. I'm talking about Greek and Roman satyrs. Okay, so it's this concept through a bacchanal, which let me double check that that's bacchanal pronunciation.

• 11:40Speaker 05

  Bacchanal.

• 11:41Brittany Broski?

  Bacchanal. Sure. Bacchanal. I'm from the south. I'm addicted to the concept of this because of course revelry in any form is fun to read about. It's fun to write about, especially this reckless abandon that the characters in The Secret History experience this with. And now the context of The Secret History, for those who don't know and maybe don't plan on reading it, which I encourage you to read. It is my favorite book of all time. These are all classics, students. So they're studying the Greeks. They're studying Greek as a language, the like Greco figures and themes and topics and pillars of Greek society

• 12:25Brittany Broski?

  that, you know, a lot of people, the way they're fascinated with the Romans and they think that Roman morals and ideals should be brought back today. There's a kind of fascination with that in this sense for the main characters in The Secret History. So much so that they decide they're gonna have a bacchanal on their own and they go out and they create it and some pretty horrific things happen during this bacchanal. And they're under the influence of so many different things. And it's such levels of ecstasy that the rest of the book is kind of dealing with what the consequences of this were. And I think, you know, I think that there's, obviously, I'm not a historian.

• 13:08Brittany Broski?

  I don't know if you can tell, but there is this historical interest in what were the Greeks trying to achieve through a bacchanal? Or, you know, what was Bacchus's, I guess, mission other than to create and curate chaos? And what was I reading recently where it was like, I think it is Greek mythology. It's not heaven and hell. It's not good and evil. It's rather order and chaos. These are two opposing ideals that control a lot of the concepts and stories around Greek gods and Greek myths and Greek culture, society at the time.

• 13:52Brittany Broski?

  Order versus chaos. And when you view these stories through that lens where there is no, you know, the gods are good and humans are bad, or humans are bad and the gods, or humans are good, gods are bad. It's never that black and white. Christianity, Abrahamic religions, they really try to purify this concept of good versus evil. That doesn't exist in Greek mythology, which I find it to be so much more interesting. Okay? Yes, everything in the Bible has a lesson they're trying to teach you and whatever. Sure, the point of religion is to be a moral guidepost, signpost for how you should live your life, according to what religion you subscribe to, okay?

• 14:33Brittany Broski?

  Greek myths, I think, are interesting and they're fun to learn about because what's the fucking point? What's the point? It's just, yeah, this shit happened, wasn't that crazy? Yeah, so. And I think some people can try to find meaning or lessons to take away from some of these stories of, you know, maybe greed, like the story of Icarus and pride and whatever. Like, yes, these things are there and you can have interpretations, but this is my hot take. I think a lot of the Greek myths are just for entertainment. Especially when you think about Greek playwrights and whatever, not everything has to have a mission statement or a takeaway. Sometimes it's just entertainment for entertainment's sake. So, very, very interesting in that regard.

• 15:17Brittany Broski?

  I recently learned about all of this and how the, the concept of a bacchanal has influenced a lot of media and a lot of, you know, there's this, I think, there exists a thin, thin veil between ordered human society and outright chaos. Ungovernable chaos. And there are systems in place like shame and certain behavioral rewards of being and

• 15:58Brittany Broski?

  living in an organized society and, you know, holding each other accountable and things like the tragedy of the commons and whatever, where the benefits of community are so plentiful that you do want to hold yourself and your fellow community members accountable for certain things like law and order. However, every single human right under the surface has chaos brewing and it is a concerted effort to keep that chaos at bay. So, when you start reading stories and especially Greek mythology through that lens, oh my God, I just, I'm very, that's been my fixation of the week. I'm very fascinated by this idea of order versus chaos and how thin, truly how thin the veil is between the two.

• 16:43Brittany Broski?

  Because the gap between good and evil is so vast, it's so wide, it's easier, it's easier to say, this is good, that's bad, this is a good person, that's a bad person. You know, heaven and hell, the line is so stark. And I say that with an asterisk, of course, because religion is a gray area and what, fucking whatever, you know what I'm trying to say? Order and chaos, very, very, very thin. It is, it is, uh, the flood is barely being kept at bay. So.

• 17:13Speaker 06

  With that being said.

• 17:17Speaker 01

  Hey, it's Nile Rodgers, host of Before the Moment, a Lincoln original series. I'm driving across the country, meeting some of today's most fascinating artists. We're exploring the stories before the moment that changed everything. This week, I'm joined by breakout singer-songwriter Alex Warren. I'm like a kid when I play music and I make music and I'm constantly asking questions. You know, whether it's an instrument I haven't played, or it's a melody that seems foreign. You know, there's every night you play a show and it's the same set, but it's not the same show. At a certain point, your brain kind of goes on autopilot. When I'm in the studio, or if I'm making music, that's where that curiosity kind of comes back, you know? I haven't lost it yet, but I'm also on my sophomore album, so, and you, you obviously are an expert here.

• 18:03Speaker 01

  Experience Before the Moment, a Lincoln original series on the iHeartRadio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 18:12Speaker 04

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 18:41Speaker 01

  Hey, it's Nile Rodgers, host of Before the Moment, a Lincoln original series. I'm driving across the country, meeting some of today's most fascinating artists. We're exploring the stories before the moment that changed everything. This week, I'm joined by my friend, John Legend. How does music actually enter your mind? I'm not sure why or how the music comes to me, but I think people who love music and write music, our brains are just filled with music. Right. Like, we have listened to so much music, we've been a part of so much music. I think of the story that I want to tell, the mood that I want to create with the music, start playing chords. See where they lead me.

• 19:24Speaker 01

  Sometimes I'm just not even thinking about music, right? And I hear this little thing and I go, oh, that could be this. You know, you just have to be ready for when the inspiration hits. When it comes. Yeah. Experience before the moment. The Lincoln original series on the iHeart Radio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 19:48Speaker 00

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 help make it happen fast. Rated A plus by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five star Trust Pilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 20:17Brittany Broski?

  Bacchus and Dionysus.

• 20:23Brittany Broski?

  There is no fundamental difference between the two. Bacchus is simply the Roman name for the Greek god Dionysus. While both names refer to the same deity of wine, ecstasy, and revelry, their cultural perception and portrayal differ slightly. Dionysus often is seen as a young, athletic demi god of emotion and chaos, and the Roman Bacchus sometimes depicted as a plump, middle aged drunken figure associated with pleasure and festivity. So they are the same. They serve the same function, I guess, of hedonism and carnal pleasure. And I watched this really interesting podcast that I think is wrong.

• 21:09Brittany Broski?

  Let me see what it was. It's this play, it's this podcast called The Rest Is History. And I watched one they did on Bacchus.

• 21:22Brittany Broski?

  And I was so fucking intrigued because they touch on the ma- y'all know I'm obsessed with madness. I'm obsessed with female madness. I'm obsessed with uh being pushed into that, that mental state based on the kind of overindulgence of artistic fancy, fancy. Does that make sense? Like people who go so far deep into their own minds to pursue some artistic endeavor that they lose their fucking shit. I'm very fascinated by that. And if I were ever to do kind of an essay, if I were to go back to school and do an essay, I would kind of want to write about that of like, when you reach so far deep into your own minds to find what's

• 22:07Brittany Broski?

  going on and then you can't come out again, I'm very, very, okay? So in the academic definition of like madness, and then in this context of like a Bacchic madness, which I guess let's look up what that is. Okay, this is on r slash Dionysus. "The Dionysian Ritual Madness." "What is a Dionysian madness? It's a harder question to answer than it sounds, because it's hard to get across just what Dionysian madness is without having experienced anything close to it yourself. But I'm currently reading The Secret History of Donna Tartt, yes, because Dionysus told me to, and that novel has some stunning descriptions of Dionysian madness.

• 22:51Brittany Broski?

  It is a Bacchae-inspired murder story in which a group of college students deliberately host a bacchanal and end up killing someone in their frenzy." That spoiler alert. "One of these students, Henry, gives us this splendid description of Dionysian ecstasy." Here we fucking go. Here we fucking go. This is what I wanted.

• 23:10Brittany Broski?

  "And if my bangs are fucked up, don't say anything." "It was heartshaking, glorious, torches, dizziness, singing, wolves howling around us, and a bull bellowing in the dark. The river ran white. It was like a film in fast motion, the moon waxing and waning, clouds rushing across the sky, vines grew from the ground so fast they twined up the trees like..." Snakes, seasons passing in the wink of an eye, entire years for all I know. I mean, we think of phenomenal change as being the very essence of time when it's not at all. Time is something which defies spring and winter, birth and decay, the good and the bad, indifferently. Something changeless and joyous and absolutely indestructible. Duality ceases to exist.

• 23:55Brittany Broski?

  There is no ego, no I, and yet it's not at all like those horrid comparisons one sometimes hears in eastern religions. The self being a drop of water swallowed by the ocean of the universe. It's more as if the universe expands to fill the boundaries of the self. "How do you know what Dionysus is?" said Henry a bit sharply. "What do you think it was we saw? A cartoon? A drawing from the side of a vase? I just can't believe you're telling me you actually saw... What if you had never seen the sea before? What if the only thing you'd ever seen was a child's picture? Blue crayon, choppy waves? Would you know the real sea if you only knew the picture? Would you be able to recognize the real thing even if you saw it? You don't know what Dionysus looks like.

• 24:39Brittany Broski?

  We're talking about God here. God is serious business." That was a quote from the book. "This idea of the universe expanding to fill the boundaries of the self is a perfect way of putting it in my mind. Dionysian ecstasy is not a state of sinking into the universe, but rather feeling the universe suddenly rage within you. It's comprehending the entire sublime absurdity of the world all at once, letting it through you, letting it not make sense. It is a communion with the natural world. The only thing this sort of mystical experience is comparable to is orgasm, and well, let's just say, that's no accident. Bitch!

• 25:23Brittany Broski?

  And as we know, orgasm means little death. It means little death."

• 25:29Brittany Broski?

  Dionysian madness, to me, is a way of comprehending the universe that allows for things that are irrational and disturbing. All humans have darkness within. This is what I was talking about earlier. Yeah, he's kind of put it into words. All humans have darkness within. All humans can be barbaric and savage with the buried potential to tear a living thing to bloody pieces. It's healthier to actually engage with that buried, panther-shaped part of our souls that thirst for blood, and to do so in a safe environment, for example, on a theater stage. It is healthier to acknowledge that no matter how civilized we consider ourselves, the natural world cannot fully be tamed, and it is better to ride the wave of life's insanity

• 26:14Brittany Broski?

  than to try to explain, rationalize, or control every single aspect of it. Madness is what defines Dionysus as a god, more than any, more than almost anything else. Dionysus was driven mad by Hera, Hera is Zeus's wife, when he was young, and he never really recovered. Madness is Dionysus's natural state. Whether he is endearingly mad, like the Hatter, or violently psychotic, like the Joker, Dionysus is mad. Therefore, his worshippers are mad women, who follow him around the mountains, dancing and screaming and eating wild animals raw. There's multiple stories of people who are drunk or frenzied, committing horrible acts of violence in their madness.

• 26:57Brittany Broski?

  Dionysus's worshippers dismember Pentheus at his command. Orpheus is killed in the same way by other Maenads, sometimes at Dionysus's behest, and sometimes not. Icarius is killed by people to whom he gave the gift of wine, because they were terrified of their mad and drunken state. And Dionysus cursed Licorius, without madness, that would make him hack his own family to pieces, hallucinating that they were grapevines. I would argue that these states of madness are identical. Interesting. There is no difference between the madness of Dionysus, Dionysus Maenad, and the madness of the surges or the shepherds who killed Ekkarios. The former willingly embrace the madness, while the latter are overcome by it because they don't have a proper understanding of it.

• 27:42Brittany Broski?

  Dionysus is the god of wine and therefore embodies the dual nature of wine. Wine can loosen you up, remove your inhibitions, allow you to act more like a child, or otherwise break cultural norms in a way that is mostly socially acceptable. It's a fun, liberating, temporary madness. But if you have too much, you could turn violent and, like the college students in the woods, end up doing something you really regret. It all comes down to knowing your tolerance. This is why I ironically associate Dionysus with the Greek virtue of temperance, because he allows you to playfully experience the savage and sensual without ever exceeding your limits. Ah.

• 28:22Brittany Broski?

  I guess.

• 28:24Brittany Broski?

  Through Dionysus's gift of wine, or through similar methods of ecstatic trance, dance, mask-wearing, swinging, screaming, sex, Dionysians experience spiritual transcendence. Now see, so many thoughts, so many things to say. Spiritual transcendence. This might be

• 28:48Brittany Broski?

  kind of like outside of the throes of this conversation. Unlike a really,

• 28:56Brittany Broski?

  I don't even know what baseline level this is, but like,

• 29:00Brittany Broski?

  what is it about humans where we're not satiated with like the physical pleasures? We will never be solely satiated by what is tangible and what is pleasurable. Like this spiritual transcendence that they're talking about, we will always yearn for that. I talked about this, about this a few months ago when I was talking about Angels and Demons by Dan Brown of like, I don't know what it is about humans that we are so, we cast our eyes to the heavens, open-palmed, yearning for more. We seek meaning, we seek purpose, we seek the intangible. And it's not promised, and it's very rare that we actually find it. And I think that's what separates us from other animals,

• 29:43Brittany Broski?

  is, you know, this higher level of consciousness of why do we need to be spiritually transcended?

• 29:51Brittany Broski?

  And I think that

• 29:54Brittany Broski?

  the fact that the question is still unanswered to me is kind of awesome. It's kind of awesome. It's fun to see what a bunch of different theories are about it. Like, why do each of us at some point in the night, at some point in all of our lives, in a moment of solitude, why do all of us feel that loneliness, that emptiness of I am alone in the universe, you know, like, why is there that desire to connect with something that is other? Why is that there? And what, is that a defect in how humans were made? Or is that our superpower that we yearn for something beyond?

• 30:38Brittany Broski?

  Have people really made contact with the beyond? And, you know, we just call them crazy because not all of us can see it. I think about all these things, especially in the context of Greek mythology, because it's like, fuck, girl. Maybe they were right. They were like, they were all fucking high on whatever they were smoking. I'm smoking on that Dionysian pack. I'm smoking on that Dionysian strand. And they're all high on red wine. It's like, yeah, but at the same time, right? What if they were cooking? What if they knew something we didn't? And we're like, these stories are crazy. And shit actually happened. What if at one point we were in touch with the gods and now we're not? What if, what if some great sin was? And I'm not talking about fucking Christianity. I'm talking about

• 31:20Brittany Broski?

  Greek mythology, Roman mythology, which was stolen from Greek mythology. You know what I'm saying? What if there is this grand other? And we were created by a bunch of different gods? And they really all do serve their own purpose? And we piss them off and they're irrational and they're unfair and they're unjust. Like, what about all the, what if all that's true? I don't know. It's fun to think about. We should find safe outlets for that primal energy. Dionysus advises taking your sanity off like a mask so that you don't really go crazy trying to keep it all in. Let the madness express itself healthily, so that you can rest easy. Pour it into your art, play some violent video games, play a villainous role,

• 32:01Brittany Broski?

  journal about it, dance naked and howl at the moon, look the beast in the mirror and tame it. Whoever the fuck wrote this is cooking. I interpret Pentheus's death in the Bacchae as something of a natural consequence of his refusal to accept Dionysus. Yes, it's presented as a divine smiting for his insolence. Yes, it's presented as a divine smiting for his insolence. But the particular grisly manner that Pentheus dies, which is the same way in which Dionysus himself died, implies a spiritual initiation or rebirth. How did Dionysus die?

• 32:40Brittany Broski?

  He was dismembered and eaten by the Titans. So. Though he was resurrected and is considered a twice-born god because of this cycle of death and rebirth. In other myths, Dionysus dies when his mother, Semele, is incinerated by Zeus's divine form, or when he is, oh, that's right, or when he is torn apart by his own followers, such as his mother and aunts, in the case of King Pentheus. Yeah, there's some crazy, Zeus ran off with this woman, Semele, Simele. And Simele is Dionysus's mother. And Hera does some fuck shit where she's like, Hera appears to Simele and says something like, "You think you know him?

• 33:24Brittany Broski?

  Okay, fine, ask him to reveal himself." She's like, "That's Zeus, you're fucking Zeus." And she's like, "No, I'm fucking not. This is just some guy." And she's like, "Okay, ask him to reveal himself to you." Because I think he appeared to her in the form of an eagle or something. And so Simele is like, "Fine." So she's laying in bed with Zeus one night, and she goes, "Can I ask you something?" And Zeus is like, "Yeah, anything, baby, anything." And she goes, "Will you reveal yourself to me? If you really are him, show me. I want to see. Don't lie to me." And he's like, "Please don't make me do this, please don't make me do this." And he does it. And showing her his true self in all of its glory, it incinerates her to death, it burns her to death.

• 34:07Brittany Broski?

  And through that, I think that there's some weird connection to Dionysus. I really need to...

• 34:14Brittany Broski?

  Let's read it.

• 34:16Brittany Broski?

  Simile and Zeus. Deceived by Zeus's wife Hera, Simile demanded Zeus appear to her in his true divine form. Zeus did so, but his appearance as a thunderbolt incinerated her, killing her. Zeus saved their unborn child, that's right, because she was pregnant, sewing the fetus into his thigh until birth, giving rise to the name Dionysus, meaning twice born.

• 34:40Speaker 06

  Ah.

• 34:42Brittany Broski?

  In later versions of the myth, Simile is resurrected and becomes a goddess called Theon, joining her son on Mount Olympus. Very tea. Yeah, and she was the daughter of the Theban king. I mean, it's just all, it just goes on and on and on and on and on. But I've really been, okay, back to the, because I'm just addicted. I'm addicted to the concept of madness. I'm addicted to, in what cases can you get away with madness? You know, like, in what societal norms is it acceptable? Like, drinking, or smoking, or whatever, you know, regionally is the house flavor? And on the flip side, when is it criminalized? When is it shat upon?

• 35:26Brittany Broski?

  When is it considered a disability? When is it considered, all these things? It's like, how do we even begin to rank when the mind loses itself? Or when the mind fails? I just, I don't know. And is it failure, or is it unlocking? I could talk about it for hours. Secondly, this is still this author on Reddit. It is extremely important to me that Dionysian madness is spiritual in nature. That seems almost oxymoronic. So many other spiritual and mystical traditions emphasize detachment from the world, whatever that means. Fast, pray, don't have sex, don't drink wine, be emotionally disciplined, keep yourself pure and above temptation and desire.

• 36:09Brittany Broski?

  Dionysian spirituality is about surrendering to that desire, to raw emotion, passion, carnality, savagery. And in that, we find the divine. So what's the, you know what I mean? And I also think it's important to note here that religion has always been a tool to control people.

• 36:31Brittany Broski?

  Sure, there is a side of it that deals with salvation and whatever that may look like for each person and everyone's idea of, you know, am I good? After I die, am I good? Is my mortal spirit gonna be taken care of, my mortal soul, once I pass on? Yes, that is a selfish part of it, you know, like, am I okay? Will my family and the people I love be okay? Will I reunite with them someday? That is a very human curiosity to have. And you do things in life, you navigate your life, trying to almost secure that. And of course, that's a gray area, but this idea of if you remove that, if religion is

• 37:09Brittany Broski?

  not, for the Greeks, a way to control your fellow man, then that opens up a whole new can of worms, you know, of this for real. What did he just say? Surrendering to that desire, raw emotion, passion, carnality, savagery, and in that, we find the divine. Like, what the fuck? That is so anti-everything that the Christian church teaches you, you know, to participate in the revelry is actually how you find... Come on. "In that, we truly feel that we are a part of the universe and not separate from it. Dionysian madness is the madness of nature, the madness that accompanies birth and sex and death.

• 37:54Brittany Broski?

  Instead of suppressing everything that makes us uncomfortable or that's dismissed as decadent, we can find God in it." Damn. "The Romantic notion of the sublime is based in the idea that nature is ultimately something ineffable and unconquerable, not something that humans can ever completely understand with science or control with industry. The Romantic sublime is inherently intertwined with terror, when the magnificence and brutality of nature just hits you. Oh, my God, we don't get excited, we don't get... This, yeah, I can't even talk, because this is my special interest. Okay, I guess my special interest is Dionysian madness. So awesome."

• 38:37Speaker 01

  Hey, it's Niall Rogers, host of Before the Moment, a Lincoln original series. I'm driving across the country, meeting some of today's most fascinating artists. We're exploring the stories before the moment that changed everything. This week, I'm joined by my friend, John Legend. What still makes you just sit down at the piano? If you sat down at 9:00 a.m. and then at noon, you had a full song that you recorded and put in your voice recorder or you recorded at your studio. You've just created something brand new that didn't exist when you woke up. What a beautiful feeling it is. I'm always excited to write something new. I've been writing for Broadway, which has been a new challenge with new collaborators

• 39:22Speaker 01

  and amazing performers who are triple threats, who can sing and dance and act and do all these amazing things. And I want to keep feeling that. And so that means not resting on my laurels, going out there and continuing to create something new. Experience Before the Moment, a Lincoln original series on the iHeartRadio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 39:44Speaker 04

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• 40:15Brittany Broski?

  I think about this all the time, but I never know how to like, I can't articulate it. I can't articulate it. When I see a huge mountain, when I see a vast ocean, I genuinely get scared. This is so much bigger than me. When you think about things like floods, hurricanes, lightning, these are things that you think you can tame as a human. You think that you can have everything in place for when that happens. I will be okay. No. No. That is the one thing we cannot tame, and the more we try, the more we fail, to tame nature, okay? So this idea is so fucking period, and it is honestly very validating, because I'm afraid of nature a little bit. I'm afraid of it because I'm in awe of it, because it is, it is so much more infinitely

• 40:56Brittany Broski?

  powerful than I am, and, and ultimately, I'm at its mercy, and that's a terrifying idea to me, okay? Anyone else, is anyone else fucking with what I'm putting down? Are y'all getting what I'm putting down? Whatever. When you see Dionysus, really see him, not just a child's picture, he is downright eldritch. Now, we're gonna go ahead and look up eldritch. Strange, eerie, unearthly, often in a supernatural or frightening way that inspires fear or wonder. Yeah, period. Great use of that word. He is downright eldritch. Eldritch. Hiding behind that image of a handsome boy with ribbons in his hair is a Lovecraftian abomination.

• 41:41Brittany Broski?

  And I've talked about Lovecraft on this podcast before, so y'all should know about Lovecraft and his monsters. Dionysus may even appear in Lovecraft's universe as the lesser-known entity called gloon. Called goon? He was the gooner in the Lovecraft Cinematic Universe. What the fuck? Six, seven, six, seven. It will alchemically break down your mind and then reconstruct it. It is beautiful, it's terrible, and just looking at it will make you suddenly understand everything, but you have to be somewhat mad already for your brain to take it. Girl, this shit is so period to me. It's so period. Here's another quote from The Secret History.

• 42:24Brittany Broski?

  If we are strong enough in our souls, we can rip away the veil and look that naked, terrible beauty right in the face. Let God consume us, devour us, unstring our bones, then spit us out, reborn. That, to me, is the terrible seduction of the Dionysiac ritual. Hard for us to imagine that fire of pure being. So this- This is why Dionysian madness is truly spiritual and transcendent. It's comprehending life and death on a cosmic and a personal scale. It's recognizing that even things that are considered base have their place in the workings of the universe and indeed are often integral to the workings of the universe.

• 43:05Brittany Broski?

  There is spirituality and beauty in the darkness, blood, sex, death. Carl Karenyi describes it as a state in which man's vital powers are enhanced to the utmost, in which consciousness and the unconscious merge as in a breakthrough.

• 43:24Brittany Broski?

  But here's the moral dilemma, okay? You do all this, you push the human psyche into a place that

• 43:31Brittany Broski?

  every culture around the world says, "Don't go there." You know, "Don't succumb to those impulses. It's the worst of us." You push it there, you push it there. What's to be said about what comes after? What's to be said about that reckless abandon? Like, that's not sustainable and it's not something, you know, in a very realistic conversation to be celebrated. It's not something to be celebrated, that that's a part of human nature. And I also don't think it should be encouraged. But if you're talking about not salvation, but if you're talking about

• 44:10Brittany Broski?

  a spiritual transcendence like we are, if we're talking about bliss, and some might say the point of life is joy, the point of life is pleasure, then this conversation is relevant. Am I, are y'all still rocking with me? Have I lost anyone? Who clicked off? I know you clicked off. God saw you scroll. But is this, is this making sense? It's like, this is an interesting conversation, but of course it has guardrails. There are, there are bowling guards up on how much pleasure is too much pleasure. The synthesis of dualities is a common occult idea that fully expresses itself here.

• 44:53Brittany Broski?

  In addition to the dual nature of wine, Dionysus embodies so many dualities. He is the savagery hiding within civilization, beloved by the Athenians who so valued how civilized they were. He is usually considered male, but often looks androgynous and dresses like a woman, which is even more significant in the very misogynistic environment of ancient Greece. He shatters cultural taboos, everything from homosexuality to cannibalism, and offers marginalized people like women and LGBTQ plus people a place to be themselves. He is the bridge between human and divine, having had a human mother and literally possessing mortals with wine-induced enthusiasm. He is an Olympian that lives among mortals and wanders the earth.

• 45:35Brittany Broski?

  He can also travel to the underworld to lead back the shades of the dead. He is loud and frenzied in the summer, quiet and gentle in the winter. He is unusually carnal for a god and known for being hedonistic, but it is through that sensual debauchery that Dionysians find enlightenment. It is through Dionysian madness that we mortals can become temporarily divine. And I say that with an asterisk. I'll read that from this author with an asterisk. Asterisk.

• 46:08Brittany Broski?

  This further connects Dionysus with the idea of temperance, which in a tarot deck represents the all-chemical synthesis of opposites. "To a god, these mutually exclusive things can coexist as one at the same time. You'd have to be mad in order to see the same thing as simultaneously black and white from every dimension. I think that it's safe to say that if you can look a god in the face without losing your mind utterly or contain it within your very soul, you're not all there mentally."

• 46:39Brittany Broski?

  And now this is a quote from Lewis Carroll. "We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." "How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice. "You must be," said the cat, "or you wouldn't have come here."

• 46:53Brittany Broski?

  Okay, now here's another thing. In this vein, I'm gonna read Alice in Wonderland, and we'll come back next week. By the way, should I dye my hair black? Everyone say yes. Everyone say yes. I'm gonna read Alice's Adventures in Wonderland because I'm gonna do some research on it beforehand. By the way, I'm pre-recording these episodes, so just know that. And I'm still reading Babel. I'm halfway through Babel. It's so good. Babel might be my new favorite book. R.F. Quang is if I could do a whole fucking separate episode on R.F. Quang. She might be my favorite author of all time. I love Donna Tartt, but R.F. Quang, she feels a bit more accessible. Donna Tartt, you know, there's kind of this

• 47:31Brittany Broski?

  wall between maybe the average reader and Donna Tartt. R.F. Quang is so deeply intelligent. She tackles subjects and themes and topics that are very topical in such a strategic and fun way. And by fun, I mean embedded within a narrative that hooks you, and it also teaches you. And I think those are the best types of books. I mean, a book like Babel is tackling things like empire and colonialism, racism, destruction of language, you know, preserving language. And forever, everyone who recommended Babel to me, thank you. Thank you, and I'm sorry it took me so long. R.F. Quang, the interviews she gives,

• 48:16Brittany Broski?

  I am in awe of her. Like, I truly am such a fan. I am such a fan of hers. And right after this, I'm gonna do Alice in Wonderland, that's separate. But I'm gonna read Poppy War. I've had the Poppy War on my shelf forever. I'm gonna jump into that. She has so many good ones. I'm just such a fan. I mean, I've heard of her, but I've kind of been more in this like, romanticy, and now I'm moving into this holy shit. It's so well done. And you really, I love Robin as a main character. Oh, my God, I love Robin. And I just, what I really find interesting- About Babel is with any story of empire or of the oppressor or of the

• 48:59Brittany Broski?

  systems that be where Robin finds himself is functioning as a cog where he is benefiting from a system that ultimately is against his entire existence. And he has now been sucked into this pyramid scheme of making sure the empire runs as it should. And he's one of the lucky ones. What's to be said about his community, other people like him, you know, like this same empire killed his mother. And now he's reaping the benefits of empire. So what do you do? And so he makes the decision to aid the rebellion. And that's where I'm at right now. I'm halfway through the book and he's just started to assist in this rebellion

• 49:42Brittany Broski?

  through some crazy characters. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, actually, that's the way to do it. Man on the inside. And I honestly, I don't know how it ends. I haven't seen any spoilers. I don't really know how it is. I'm very excited. So I'll keep you guys updated on what I think about the end. But my God, I am, I truly cannot overstate like I am blown away by her writing and the research. And she does this disclaimer at the beginning of Babel where she says,

• 50:12Brittany Broski?

  this is about as damn accurate to Oxford in the 1830s as I could get it. So you bitches, shut the fuck up, because this is also, there's a magic system in this book. Okay. So yes, she made it historically accurate, as accurate as she could have. But ultimately Oxford in this story is the safe harbor, it safe keeps the magic that keeps the British Empire running. Okay, so there's give, cut her some slack. There is a map of the campus and the whatever. I just, it's very well researched. It's very well written. I'm just, I love her. I freaking love her. If I ever met RF Quaid, I'd freak the fuck out. That's my girl.

• 50:56Brittany Broski?

  Anyway, yeah, I want to read Alice in Wonderland and I'm gonna do some preliminary, I might read some books related to Alice in Wonderland. I mean, about like Lewis, Lewis Carroll? Yeah, yeah, about Lewis Carroll's, who he was, and kind of what some of his influences were, because I think that, I'm one of those people that the more you know about an author, the better. I want to know where these ideas came from. I want to know, maybe, because if you're ever gonna deep dive into an author's works, which some people, you know, like a David Lynch, it's like, uh, don't worry about me. Take the art for what it is. Like, don't ask me questions about it. Don't ask me what I think it means. Don't ask whatever. The

• 51:38Brittany Broski?

  art is for you. Cillian Murphy says that thing of like, the film's not done until the audience sees it. Then it's completed. Because that's what it's for. That's what it's for. So I, I'm intrigued by this idea of, if I read some ancillary content about Lewis Carroll, or, you know, about his, his relationship with maybe religion, or about the surreal, or about the other, paranormal, whatever, will that affect how I can enjoy or better understand Alice and her adventures in Wonderland, Alice Through the Looking Glass? So I'm very excited. Okay, you guys, um, Song of the Week, I'm back on my Fontaine

• 52:20Brittany Broski?

  shit. I never left. Okay, I'm doing Death Kink by Fontaine's DC. I'm doing, is it so real for ya? I'm doing Sha Sha Sha. I'm doing Dublin and the rain is mine. Can't get over it. And they just continue to get bigger. And again, I'm, I'm just gonna say it because I mean it. Graham Chatton, don't bring him around me. Don't bring Graham Chatton around me, because I'm definitely gonna get a tattoo from one of his lyrics of Graham Chatton, but just stay the fuck back. All right. I love you guys. Go to broski.shop for merch if you want it. We've got some exciting stuff coming later this year and we've got some exciting royal courts coming up and that's pretty much it. So thanks for listening to me talk. This was, this was definitely a self indulgent

• 53:04Brittany Broski?

  episode. This is something that I love to talk about. If I lost some of you guys and you stayed to the end anyway, thank you so much. I appreciate you and I hope you learned something and I hope that, because again, this is not a podcast where I'm, you should take what I'm saying at its face value. Go, if you're interested, research it on your own. I am not a historian. Don't use me as a fuck. Don't do that shit. Don't quote me. Don't use me as a source, but you can use me as a trampoline to go and do your own personal research on any of this shit that interests you because I'm very interested in Bacchus ultimately. Okay, y'all.

• 53:42Speaker 06

  Love you. Be good.

• 53:57Speaker 01

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• 55:30Speaker 01

  Hey, I'm Niall Rogers. This fall, I'll be driving across the country, meeting some of today's coolest and most fascinating artists. We'll explore the stories before the moments that changed everything. Because every musician remembers the moment where it all began. Experience Before the Moment, a Lincoln original series on the iHeartRadio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.