Mike Flanagan, Kate Siegel, Carla Gugino, & Rahul Kohli

Director Mike Flanagan has cultivated an amazing group of actors recurring in all of his projects from MIDNIGHT MASS and THE HAUNTING OF HILL HOUSE to THE FALL OF THE HOUSE OF USHER. Here they come together again for a talk about their first meetings, horror, future projects like THE LIFE OF CHUCK, THE EXORCIST, THE DARK TOWER, & more. SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS! BetterHelp -- Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠BetterHelp.com/HSC ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠for 10% off UPCOMING LIVE EVENTS 11/12 -- Pamela Anderson and Gia Coppola at 92NY in NY -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠Tickets here⁠⁠⁠⁠ 12/3 -- John David Washington at 92Y in NY -- ⁠Tickets here⁠ 12/19 -- Ben Schwartz at 92Y in NY -- ⁠Tickets here Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Happy Sad Confused patreon here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! We've got discount codes to live events, merch, early access, exclusive episodes, video versions of the podcast, and more! To watch episodes of Happy Sad Confused, subscribe to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Josh's youtube channel here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:31Speaker 00

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• 0:59Speaker 01

  My only goal isn't to make the scariest movie ever made, or to remake The Exorcist. My goal is to make the scariest movie I've ever made. And try to make something that scares the [bleep] out of me.

• 1:12Speaker 02

  Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, Sad, Confused begins now.

• 1:20Josh Horowitz?

  Hey guys, Josh here. I just wanted to say a very quick note before this very special episode of Happy, Sad, Confused. What you're about to experience was a live taping at New York Comic Con with Mike Flanagan, the great filmmaker behind Dr. Sleep, Oculus, Gerald's Game, and all those great TV shows. House of Usher, Midnight Mass. You know him, he's fantastic. But not only Mike was on this podcast taping, but three of his cohorts, three great actors that recur in his work. Rahul Kohli, Carlo Gugino, and Kate Siegel. This is a live taping, as I said, in front of a bunch of very enthusiastic fans at New York Comic Con. Wanted to share this love with all of you because I'm such a fan of all of these folks and they've never been on the podcast.

• 2:03Josh Horowitz?

  So I hope you guys enjoy this very special live taping of Happy, Sad, Confused. Enjoy. Welcome, guys. My name's Josh Horowitz. I host a podcast called Happy, Sad, Confused. But today, today, thank you, today it is my honor, my privilege to welcome Mike Flanagan and the Flanagan, the Flanagans. I don't know. I mean, come on, guys. The coolest rock group known to man. By the way, whether you know it or not, you're in my podcast right now. We're recording this as a special episode of Happy, Sad, Confused, because I couldn't let this amazing talent go by without preserving this conversation. I don't need to tell you guys about the resume of Mike Flanagan and his amazing actors here today,

• 2:45Josh Horowitz?

  but he has done something so unique in creating this all-star rep company that continually works in fantastic project after fantastic project. Whether it's Usher, Bligh House, the upcoming Life of Chuck, by the way. You guys are going to love this film.

• 3:05Josh Horowitz?

  So, yeah, and we're also just privileged that we have someone that is as much a fan as a master of genre filmmaking, working in TV and film today. So, I'm so thrilled to welcome, in no particular order, because I told them I want them to fight for seats out here. Please give it up for Mike Flanagan, for Kate Siegel, for Rahul Kohli, and Carla Gugino. Make them feel welcome, everybody.

• 3:54Speaker 00

  Hey, guys. Y'all are good today.

• 3:59Speaker 01

  There's an Olivia right in the front row.

• 4:02Josh Horowitz?

  I was gonna say, that was actually gonna be my first question, guys. Do you remember the first time you ever saw one of your characters cosplayed at a convention? That's gotta be a moment.

• 4:11Speaker 00

  It's such a moment. The thing that blows my mind more than that is the tattoos. I freaking love that. I don't know if it's my deep well of vanity, but seeing my face on somebody else's body just really... I'm chuffed, y'all.

• 4:28Josh Horowitz?

  I'm immortalized now for life on you. Show me my face. What about you guys? I mean, you've been coming to cons for a bit by now. So is it, it's never old hat. The energy of a Comic-Con is wholly unique, Carla.

• 4:43Speaker 00

  It really is. It is such a, it's so extraordinary to see all of you come out. You know, I've lived my life, so much of it on the screen since I was such a little kid. And so I feel like we have all lived it together. And that is a very, very special thing. I think my first, I think the first costume was maybe Sally Jupiter in Watchmen that I started seeing, which is a great costume. That was me.

• 5:07Speaker 00

  He looked amazing.

• 5:09Josh Horowitz?

  Awkward, but cool.

• 5:12Josh Horowitz?

  Is there a name for the Flanagan gang? Is there an official? Do it. What do you got?

• 5:19Speaker 01

  So, so they, someone started calling it the Flaniverse. And our, our reaction to that wasn't awesome.

• 5:29Josh Horowitz?

  Glad I didn't say that now.

• 5:30Speaker 01

  And, and I could say that now. And, and so what started happening was internally, we started to refer to everybody as the Flavengers.

• 5:41Speaker 01

  And when we have a new project, it's Flavengers Flassemble.

• 5:47Josh Horowitz?

  Are there different text threads for the different projects? Are there different WhatsApp groups? Or there's one massive one for all of them?

• 5:53Speaker 00

  Okay, I can't talk about this because Rahul is excluded from so many of them.

• 5:58Speaker 04

  I had a feeling I wasn't in all of them.

• 6:01Speaker 00

  You were. And it's so funny because I think-

• 6:03Speaker 04

  I ruin every group thread.

• 6:05Speaker 00

  It's just that you will drop a bomb of a joke that'll just silence everyone as they slowly back away from their phone, imagining it being read out loud in a deposition.

• 6:18Josh Horowitz?

  We need an encrypted kind of text thread that Rahul can feel safe in.

• 6:22Speaker 00

  Right.

• 6:22Speaker 04

  Blatsap.

• 6:23Speaker 00

  Blatsap.

• 6:24Speaker 04

  Blatsap.

• 6:26Josh Horowitz?

  He's just too edgy for this world. So talk to me a little bit about, I mean, I mentioned this from the start. Like, this is a unique thing. There aren't many filmmakers that I can think of that. Do you kind of have a rep company of a sort? I mean, it's like you and Wes Anderson, basically, out there. How did this, did this happen in kind of a haphazard way? Or was it just sort of like, you collected folks you liked and, yeah, I'm gonna re, I'm gonna use them in a new purpose for my next project? Like, how did it happen?

• 6:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was certainly, it was not intentional. But as, I was very nervous when I finally got to make movies. I didn't know what I was doing. I think most of us who make movies don't know what we're doing and we live in constant fear that people are gonna figure that out. And when you have people that you trust and that you can cut through a lot of the, because making movies and TV is so difficult, your time is so crazily spread out. If you can communicate well with people, it just makes the process so much better. You have this baseline of trust. It becomes telepathic communication at a certain point.

• 7:35Speaker 01

  And with the people that I work with again and again, it's like you just want them there. You want them on set. It makes the day better. So it's grown very organically. It certainly wasn't an intentional thing, but it's one of my favorite things about working.

• 7:49Josh Horowitz?

  Kate, the first collaboration was Oculus, as I remember it. So what struck you about his methodology, his sensibilities, that connected with you from the start, you think?

• 7:58Speaker 00

  Well, the first time I ever performed for Mike Flanagan was an audition for another movie that actually never became a movie. And for the record, I didn't book it. He didn't cast me in that movie. Thank you. But I went in and normally in these auditions, you prepare a huge amount of material. I think it was eight pages. It was very emotional. And they'll put you through your paces if you're lucky. Generally, you get to Run it once and they go, "Thank you." And Mike ran it three or four times, giving me direction, pulling me all the way from one end to the other. And it was a time in my career when I was feeling really, um, really despondent, just like, like I was being led in like cattle and led out like cattle and not having any success.

• 8:42Speaker 00

  And after, I felt like I had run through all of my tricks and like did my routine at the end of like,

• 8:49Speaker 00

  and Mike, uh, looked at me and he just said, "Hey, can you do one more?" And I was so ready with my like, "Yes, gold star, anything you want. What do you want from me?" I was there. And he was just like, "Just do one the way you want to do it. Just do it for you." And it really, I almost burst into tears because it had been so long since I felt like my art had belonged to me. And I think that feeling is held by every one of the Flavengers.

• 9:17Speaker 00

  That Mike truly wants you to own your art. And that is true of everybody on that set, set design, sound, um, camera work. Everybody owns their art and brings it to the candy salad of whatever the movie is. And I was immediately addicted to working with him. And, and then I fell in love with him. Cause he's so damn handsome. Hi.

• 9:45Speaker 00

  What are you doing later? Yep. Just sit with it, everybody. Let the awkwardness happen in front of us.

• 9:54Josh Horowitz?

  Now, can you set the record straight? I think I heard Mike say this. Is it true that you like to make up plots of movies, uh, that you pretend that you've seen in, in your life?

• 10:02Speaker 00

  Well, what's funny is that I've seen every movie, so I'm not making anything up. But, uh, it's not not true.

• 10:09Speaker 01

  Uh, you should hear her try to riff her way through what she thinks Dog Day Afternoon is about.

• 10:15Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 10:16Josh Horowitz?

  Remind me again what's, what happens in Dog Day Afternoon?

• 10:18Speaker 00

  Oh, no, absolutely. Dog Day Afternoon is an incredible film about a boy and his cat. And what they've done is he, um, this boy wanted a dog very badly, but unfortunately, he, um, has a history of eating dogs. So...

• 10:36Speaker 01

  He should be animated when she does this.

• 10:39Speaker 00

  Anyways, mom got him a cat because his mom was going to space and she wanted someone to take care of him. But he spends an entire day treating this cat like a dog. They go out, they play fetch, they solve crimes, and then come home from a well-spent afternoon.

• 11:01Josh Horowitz?

  Come on, give it up for Dog Day Afternoon. You should check it out.

• 11:03Speaker 00

  Dog Day Afternoon, am I right?

• 11:07Speaker 00

  Your mom? Was she the one in space?

• 11:11Speaker 00

  That's incredible.

• 11:14Speaker 00

  There we go.

• 11:16Josh Horowitz?

  There are a couple of different Dog Day Afternoons to set the record straight. Carly, your origin story, I believe, was Gerald's Game, as I recall, with Mike.

• 11:24Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 11:27Josh Horowitz?

  Which kind of sets the bar right there. A big ask, a challenging performance, an unusual kind of, you know, one of those so-called unfilmable Stephen King adaptations that you've specialized in, I feel like, over the years. What do you recall about getting that role and the challenge of working on that one in particular?

• 11:46Speaker 00

  Well, that was an unusual circumstance because I had heard through my agents that Mike Flanagan was interested in meeting about this movie that was going very, very quickly. And there was a short list of people that he was meeting with and, you know, did I want to? So I read the script and I thought, wow, there is nowhere to hide, literally or figuratively. As you know, she is handcuffed to a bed and in the negligee. And then, you know, everything, craziness ensues. So I thought, well, I need to talk to this guy. This adaptation is very cool, but I really, I would be having to jump in extremely quickly

• 12:31Speaker 00

  and put myself in this person's hands. And so we end up talking. What you didn't tell me at the time was that, basically, had this not come through very, very quickly, you know, the movie would not have happened. But he played it very cool. And we talked when you were scouting. You were already in Mobile, Alabama, where we shot it.

• 12:52Speaker 00

  And we started talking, you know, about, basically within about three minutes, I was like, I wanna, I wanna help this guy make his movie. Like, I feel completely, this innate trust, very quickly. I don't know how, I knew that to be true, but it absolutely was. And, and we delved in. I mean, from the moment that I read the script, to the moment we were filming, our first shot was two weeks, all in. Bruce Greenwood had been cast, someone else was going to do the movie and had to drop out for crazy, crazy stories, crazy reasons. And we just hit the ground running. I mean, literally Bruce and I had dinner every night, with our scripts in hand, just running lines. Because we shot it, it was

• 13:34Speaker 00

  sort of like a, you know, one act play. I mean, we shot it predominantly in this one small location, with a small crane that would just follow us around, and I would play the various Jessies in a row. So we would just sort of, and then that was where we got to meet. I mean, it was such an, it was an incredible experience, that was insanely challenging, and one of the most joyous times I've ever had on a set as well. So, yeah, it was a crazy, crazy entry. We definitely had to jump in full force together.

• 14:03Speaker 01

  And a few of you who have come to the table this morning already, when we were doing our signings, I've said this probably ten times this morning, when people bring up that movie, and I say, Carla saved us. She saved the movie, she saved the cast and the crew. And it wasn't just that she came in and took the part and ran with it. Carla showed up and took a crew that was panicked, because we had thought the movie might not happen, that were incredibly stressed about kind of throwing this new unknown element, you know, into the mix so quickly. And I know Bruce was like, you know, this is someone I don't have a previous relationship with, this is someone I have to get to know right away. And he was like, how is this gonna work? And Carla came in and kind of took

• 14:45Speaker 01

  everybody's anxiety, and quieted it right away, on her first rehearsal day. And everyone relaxed and calmed down, and Carla very much took a leadership position in the movie. And I knew the first week, that it was like, I wanna work with this person forever. And thus far, we've, we've, we have.

• 15:07Speaker 00

  Feeling is mutual.

• 15:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:09Speaker 00

  So, such a... Yeah.

• 15:15Josh Horowitz?

  I know this is turning into like a roast of Mike Flanagan in the best possible way, but just go with it. Uh, Rahul, your, your origin story, I guess, was it just another audition at the time for Bligh Matter?

• 15:25Speaker 04

  Yeah, I'd just done a tape. Like, there's, it's not partic- it, it's so strange. It had such a regular mundane feel to everything. Like, the, the thing that was about to happen was gonna change my life, but it came about very just routine. I, I had just finished I Zombie and then... Woo! Thanks. Um, and I didn't, I didn't know where the next show was coming from and I got just, it was like, it said Hill House sequel. And I did a tape, uh, with my mum. Um, which was an experience. And then, like, a few days later, my team called me and said, "Yeah, you're, you off to Vancouver." And I was like, "Okay, cool." And that was it.

• 16:04Speaker 04

  And then, with, very quickly after meeting Mike and, um, we, we, uh, Mike directed the pilot, so that was when I worked with him. I feel like a few days in, you started sizing me up and, and asking me questions about like, "How old do you think you can play?" And, and things like that. And I was like, "Ooh, something's happening." Um, and at a certain point, we met and, and you talked to me about Midnight Mass. Woo! So, yeah, it's, it, like I said, it's one of those things, it, it, it wasn't like, like I said, being a part of the, what are we calling ourselves?

• 16:47Josh Horowitz?

  Avengers.

• 16:48Speaker 04

  Avengers.

• 16:49Josh Horowitz?

  You're not in the group, Tex, so you don't know.

• 16:51Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's the first I've heard of it. Um, but being, being a part of that, for me, it, it started just really quiet and I didn't realize that what I was about to embark on has been one of the most important journeys of my life and career and I've made friends for life and I've got to work. I mean, I'm sitting next to Carla Gugino, man, like...

• 17:10Speaker 04

  I fell in love, I told you this on Bligh. I, when I, when I saw Carlo, I was like, oh my god, Bon Jovi always music video. Because I was in Thailand, I was like, I was a kid, we didn't have any English speaking shows except MTV, and they were pumping that music video. So you just remind me of this, this, this vacation. But yeah, it's been, it's been incredible.

• 17:33Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, yeah, go ahead, Mike.

• 17:34Speaker 01

  Can I embarrass him just a little bit?

• 17:36Josh Horowitz?

  Please.

• 17:36Speaker 01

  So, when we were, when we were shooting the pilot of Bligh, we were in prep on Midnight Mass at the same time. And so I was on set for Bligh, but I was, I was trying to get Midnight Mass up in the background, and I was already looking at him off his tape, I was like, oh, he could be terrific for Sheriff Hassan, but I wasn't sure, I didn't really know him. And so, there's a scene in, in the pilot of Bligh, or, you know, pilot or second, yeah, pilot, where he's unloading groceries in the kitchen, that he shows up with shopping bags, is unloading them. And there wasn't much direction to give for this, because he was just being his charming kind of Owen self and putting away the groceries. And I was like, I want to get a sense of like, who this guy really is, because everybody

• 18:20Speaker 01

  behaves very different, when they show up on set, and everybody's, you know, being very proper and being very, trying to make a good impression, especially on a pilot. And so I just started making up really ridiculous directions for the groceries. And I was like, it's very important that you start with the bananas.

• 18:41Speaker 01

  And I want you to take those out first with your left hand, with your right hand, I want you to be reaching for the bread, and then I want you to lift them both up at the same time, and place them on the counter, and I'm watching him go, uh huh.

• 18:56Speaker 01

  Right? And I'm just making shit up, left and right, and just, and just like seeing what he would do, and he's like, uh huh, yeah, and then, right, you're fucking with me, aren't you?

• 19:07Speaker 01

  And then I was like, "Oh, we're gonna get along. Great." "This is great." And that was the, it was the, it was the "You're fucking with me, aren't you?" Where I was like, "Yeah, we can work together."

• 19:16Speaker 04

  I didn't know that. That was awesome.

• 19:18Josh Horowitz?

  To be fair, Rahul...

• 19:20Speaker 04

  I thought it was just my apps, like my talent. I didn't know it was like, it's the banter that got it.

• 19:27Josh Horowitz?

  I just met Rahul backstage and first thing, he fucked with me by asking about the performance of his girlfriend and Kate's new film, by the way, so...

• 19:35Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 19:35Josh Horowitz?

  Turned out it's fair play.

• 19:36Speaker 04

  I buried the lead. I said, "What did you think of the lead of VHS Stowaway?"

• 19:40Josh Horowitz?

  Thank god I said I liked her.

• 19:42Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 19:44Speaker 04

  Like, "Yeah, that's my missus."

• 19:44Speaker 00

  You did take that pause. You were like, "Something is... Yeah, you did take that pause."

• 19:49Josh Horowitz?

  I didn't know what he was fishing for.

• 19:53Josh Horowitz?

  Oh my gosh.

• 20:01Josh Horowitz?

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• 20:44Josh Horowitz?

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• 21:29Josh Horowitz?

  It's now available in Canada and the UK too. And when Quince asks where you've heard about them, you know what to do. Let them know it was happy, sad, confused. That's the best way to support our show. If I had a dollar for everybody in my life who's benefited from therapy, I would be a very, very rich man. Therapy has certainly helped me, especially when I was a confused teenager. And thankfully, that's not a shameful thing to say anymore, right? It's okay to seek help and need help and talk about it. We're all doing our best. We're just trying to get by, right, guys? Unfortunately, the reality is that getting help is still harder than it should be. That's why I'm thrilled always to have Rula as a sponsor of Happy, Say Confused, because it's very obvious to me that online therapy should be both accessible and affordable for everybody.

• 22:14Josh Horowitz?

  So let's make it easy for anybody who wants help to get help. That's where Rula comes in. Here's the thing, a lot of online therapy platforms don't actually talk about. Most don't take insurance. That means you're either paying out of pocket or signing up for some very expensive monthly subscription. Rula does it all differently. They work with over 120 insurance plans. So the average copay, I can't get over this, it's just 15 bucks a session. So basically two of your lattes, okay? A pretty good deal if you ask me. That means you can get real therapy from a licensed professional without breaking the bank. And Rula doesn't just set you up and leave you alone. They give you that therapist and then they're along the way, the whole journey with you to make sure your care is working for you and you're actually making progress, hitting your goals.

• 22:58Josh Horowitz?

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• 23:28Josh Horowitz?

  So if there is a theme perhaps that does recur in your work, there are several, but Fucked Up Families, that's in there. Which brings us maybe to the latest work that many of folks here have seen fall, The House of Usher.

• 23:46Josh Horowitz?

  Super effed up family, congratulations. The motherload of them all. How did that one come together? Was that in your brain for a while to bring that story and give it your own spin?

• 23:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, I've wanted to adapt Poe since I was a kid. And to try to find a way to do Poe that hadn't really, I think, been done like that before. He's one of those, it's like with The Turn of the Screw with Henry James. There are so many adaptations. Like, how do you do something that is different? And with this one, it was at a time when I think we've all felt like we had a lot to say about the country and a lot to say about kind of the wealth gap. And it just seemed like this delicious opportunity to kind of do something that was funny and dark and wicked and twisted. And that just felt like different music than what we've been making.

• 24:40Speaker 01

  And I think we had talked at one point about like, oh, Hill House is like classical music and Bligh Manor is like a string quartet. And House of Usher's rock and roll with a little heavy metal. And it was like, this is really fun. But it was, I remember on Midnight Mass, already talking to the cast about the characters I thought that they would play in Usher. And kind of pulling everybody aside and being like, what do you think of this? What do you think of that? Which was really fun for Carla because it was like, what do you think of these nine versions?

• 25:14Josh Horowitz?

  I was gonna say, yeah, what's the reaction? That's gotta be like, a good conversation to have. Like, oh yeah, this is gonna be a challenge, but this is gonna be delicious.

• 25:23Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's an understatement for sure on both of those counts. Well, it was a while because I donated my voice, but I was not actually up there with you guys for Midnight Mass, so I... I didn't have the conversation that on set. It was you, you basically called and you were like, I think I wanna, you know, I wanna do Poe. And would you be interested in The Raven? I think you'd be great as The Raven. And I said, uh, yes. And that was, uh, that was all I needed. But then, as you started writing scripts,

• 25:58Speaker 00

  you were like, well, here, you know, sort of each, I kept getting each script as it came. So I didn't get to binge it. I had to actually wait for each script, but he's really fast. So, um, but every time I was like, oh, God, this is, she's, yeah, okay. And then I've got, oh, okay, now that, maybe that's how I would approach that. And then, oh, and then, and then she kept going. And then I got so, I was riveted. And then I became terrified when I realized I had to play her.

• 26:25Speaker 00

  I, I basically was like, oh, right. And now comes, I better pull this off or else I will ruin the whole show. So it was in extraordinary. I mean, I could go on forever about what that process was for me. There weren't any, there were, there were some, um, some of the characters, some of the incarnations of Verna had very specific things written. And some, there were, there were no accents. So we were able to explore that together. So I would come and sort of, um, you know, Mike would be in his office on a moment off with a pizza on your desk. And I'd be like, what do you think about? And then I would audition for him, basically an accent for one of the characters. And feel like, oh, this person might be from the Midwest or this person. And we were very, almost all of them, I think you really, like, we clicked in with right away.

• 27:10Speaker 00

  Except for the, we were, there was a moment where our escort in Goldbug was going to be, I, I had kind of initially thought of her as being this sort of like New Yorker, hard on her sleeve, kind of crap. Like she had like this, I don't know, there was this, this idea that I had. And I, and, and Mike kept going, you know, really supportive, like, uh huh, uh huh. I think that, and then finally I was like, I don't think this one, I feel like, he was like, yeah, I just feel like she might not be her. And so I said, maybe she's a Brit. And in that moment, we just started playing with it. He was like, that's where she lives. And so, that's the amazing thing about being able to collaborate with somebody that

• 27:50Speaker 00

  you have no ego and innate trust, and you know you have an extremely strong leader. I mean, this is the thing, directors who are, who have a very strong perspective, especially auteurs, especially someone who's written and is directing, and in this case, also editing, so they have ownership over it and a very clear vision, they are truly collaborative. And so, that's the difference. The people who are really resistant are usually insecure. So, there's this great thing that can happen, which is you skip a bunch of steps and you get to actually just cut to the quick and go, "Ah, okay, there she is, great, we got it, onward," you know. So, it was incredible, one of the most extraordinary experiences of my, my career and my creative life. And then to get to work with people that you

• 28:35Speaker 00

  love and respect so much as a cast is, I mean, I have no words for it. You blow me away every time. Kate is one of the most precise actors on the planet. It's really extraordinary to watch, super facile and also just insanely precise, and that's, that's a really, really special talent. And then we just got to go to town.

• 29:00Speaker 04

  I was hoping you'd just go, "And Rahul's tall."

• 29:03Speaker 00

  You are very tall.

• 29:07Speaker 04

  Thank you, thank you. It's facts. We did have a blast.

• 29:09Speaker 00

  Like, we just got, we just got a taste, we need more, but yes.

• 29:13Josh Horowitz?

  I'm wondering, for, yeah, for Kate and Rahul, are you ever surprised at the roles that Mike approaches you with? Because I think what's also striking to me in all your collaborations is, you see many different facets of them. You're not, you're not casting them in the same type of role in each project. And that is the greatest gift, I feel like any actor can have with the collaborators, to feel seen and to see what you can, what you can show off that you haven't before. So, I guess, like, what's the back and forth? Have you been in a case where he's come to you with one kind of role and you're like, "Really? This is, this is the one?"

• 29:44Speaker 00

  I think I struggled the most with Erin Green, because what Mike wanted for Erin was the most private part of me. Like, I, as a person, when I feel perceived, like, I immediately put the jazz hands on and start running the jokes and kind of like, "Look over here, look over here, look over here," so that the rest of it can still be secret and safe. And...

• 30:10Speaker 00

  Originally, it was Erin who burned up in the rowboat. And when Mike made that swap, he came to me, and that was when he started saying like, "I think, I think I want you to play Erin." And I was like, "No, no, you know, honestly, I would be a fabulous Bev." Like, let's be clear. I was like, "You know, what about like Lady Sheriff?" Or, "What about Mother Paul?" And, and I started reading Erin, and I started to see how you saw me in that way. And then on set, it was just, it was a, a daily exercise in stripping away.

• 30:53Speaker 00

  And I would try to do a little like je ne sais quoi, and he would say, "No." And I would say, "But what about this?" You know, and I go, "I also got these." And he'd be like, "None of those." And I think the perfect example of that was there's a moment, spoiler alert, when Erin shoots Bev. And the line is, "Now we have five minutes." And when I tell you I was ready to be Ripley in that moment, with the gun, and I'm like, "What about like a close up and like a smash cut to me?" And we went back and forth on that a lot, because there's a certain amount of Erin who didn't know what to say, but knew that there's supposed to be like a, a rousing statement there.

• 31:38Speaker 00

  But you see her sort of not quite hit it. And that's the beauty of Erin, is that she's, she's little moves and she's gentle. But after I, I was able to kind of like, cut myself open and bleed out all of what I thought was private and then became public, he gifted me with Camille. Yeah. Who is only jazz hands. Just jazz hands.

• 32:07Josh Horowitz?

  And you'll be doing full jazz hands in The Exorcist, we can say. You're just gonna be doing singing and dancing, obviously. Yeah, no, absolutely, all singing, all dancing exorcist.

• 32:17Josh Horowitz?

  Rahul, which of the opportunities have shocked you in the best possible way? We talked about the sheriff, that's gotta be an amazing kind of... You had never played that kind of role before, I presume, and that's...

• 32:26Speaker 04

  Yeah, so...

• 32:30Speaker 04

  Ravi was the... I Zombie Thing, playing Sweet Boys, was kinda like my forte at that point, and Owen was kind of similar to that. So the sheriff was the first, like, oh, okay, cool. I think I was 33 at the time, and we thought the sheriff was about 42, 40. So I was already gonna be playing up, have a teenage son. I don't speak Arabic, I'm not Muslim. So there was a lot there, I'm not American. Shocker.

• 33:04Speaker 00

  You are a sheriff, though.

• 33:06Speaker 04

  I am a sheriff.

• 33:06Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 33:09Speaker 04

  Yeah, that was easy. But, um, yeah, that one, that was a tough one for me. Like, I wrestled with it every day. It felt like an ill-fitting costume, I think, and I was always... It was such, it was a character that was super-contained.

• 33:27Speaker 04

  And we never really wanted him to peak, right? We always wanted him to sort of simmer.

• 33:33Speaker 04

  And just the way that shooting worked out, the only time he boils over is the last week of filming. So for six months, I felt like I was just smoldering. And then you'd wait for a crew member to be like, "Great scene", and no one did, because I just stood there like that. And I'd go home. But it was, it was, it changed me, that role changed me, because I was terrified, super insecure.

• 33:59Speaker 04

  Didn't feel like I'd proven myself with that role. And once it came out and we had the reception we had, it changed me, it developed a... Not that I didn't trust Mike, I obviously trust Mike, but it deepened that to the point now where if Mike's like, "I want you to play the little possessed girl in Exorcist", I'm like, "Got you", because I know he wants the best for me, and he's not gonna let me fail. So...

• 34:25Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, so you're a little possessed girl, you're jazz hands, what's Carla?

• 34:29Speaker 00

  Who am I?

• 34:31Speaker 01

  Carla plays both the priest and the devil.

• 34:36Josh Horowitz?

  Clearly. Carl Gugino doesn't do one role anymore, guys. It's two and above at a minimum.

• 34:46Josh Horowitz?

  Breaking news, we have not one but two directors on the panel. I want to give some love to Kate. Congratulations, Kate.

• 34:54Josh Horowitz?

  VHS Beyond, you can check out. Big moment, you know, I mean, new skill set, new talents unlocked. I mean, talk to me a little bit about, I don't know, new perspective, newfound respect, or less respect for what Mike does.

• 35:07Speaker 00

  Yeah, super easy. What are you talking about? Yeah, I love it. I'm really happy to be expanding in the world like that. But I had flinched from it for so long because I knew how much work it was. And I'm a sleepy girl. And I did want to take a nap. And directors don't get to take naps. Actors sometimes do. But, so I kind of approached it with a little trepidation. And I worked as hard as I could, and I tried to be as precise as I was. But very quickly, I realized that all of the misfitting of acting that can happen

• 35:50Speaker 00

  for me, where I have to silence my brain, and I have to work really hard not to be mean to myself, or to be too controlling at any moment. All of these things that I thought were faults in me as an artist were benefits to me as a director. And so there was a certain ease in that transition for me. Because while I haven't done it before, and the first time I picked up a camera was to shoot VHS Beyond, I had been sitting next to Mike Flanagan for 12 years. And there is no better role model when it comes to hard work, point of view, the way you run a set, and how you kind of gently guide a story into existence.

• 36:33Speaker 00

  And so with Mike cheering me from behind, I was able to fully step into this moment. Which is, when you're doing something for the first time, there's no voice in the back of your head about how it should be done. You don't know a lot. And that's, you can either let that be your detriment, or you can let that be your superpower. So when I said my, part of my short takes place in space, and it was a very low-budget situation. But I was like, no, I want zero gravity. And so I just was like, how will you do this for six peanuts and a wad of bubble gum? And I worked it out and figured it out. But I think if I had been a more experienced filmmaker, I would have been like, we have to change the script. I can't do it.

• 37:17Speaker 00

  And so I hope to continue approaching directing like that. Like with the goldfish memory. Every time is my first time.

• 37:25Josh Horowitz?

  And a nap or two, if you can sneak it in.

• 37:27Speaker 00

  I would love a nap. It's been a really long time.

• 37:31Josh Horowitz?

  I also want to give some love. Next year, you guys are in for a treat. The Life of Chuck is Mike's upcoming film. I was privileged enough to see this. It debuted at the Toronto Film Festival, won the Audience Award, which, look it up. Any film that wins the Audience Award, great things happen. This is a very special piece of work, based on Stephen King's work. Not relying on scares. It's a different kind of Stephen King, more of, you know, the Stand By Me, Shawshank side of things. This has to feel like a very personal work for you. It's about life, death, what's important. Can you talk to us a little bit about Life of Chuck?

• 38:08Speaker 01

  Yeah. Life of Chuck, has anyone read the short story? Not a lot of people are familiar with the short story. It came out in If It Bleeds, and was not one of the more celebrated stories that he wrote. It's one of my favorite things he's ever written. And as I was reading it, I finished the story crying down my face and feeling like I wanted this movie to exist in the world for my kids. And we got to make the movie that we wanted to make, completely independently. We had no idea if anyone would ever... Well, we were pretty certain a studio would never make the movie. And then we had no idea if anyone would ever buy the movie and put it out, but...

• 38:51Speaker 01

  It's of the feature films I've gotten to work on in my career, it's my favorite by a lot. But it is very different. It's not at all horror, like you said. It's the kind of softest, gooiest, most humanist side of Stephen King and of me, too. But I just love it and I hope you guys get to see it sooner than later. It won't be till next year, but yeah, please check it out when you can. It's pretty lovely.

• 39:24Josh Horowitz?

  All that, plus you get Tom Hiddleston dancing and that's epic.

• 39:29Speaker 01

  Oh, and everybody up here is in it, you know, everybody on stage. Carla, kind of like Midnight Mass, you hear her. But I got to show Carla the movie yesterday.

• 39:42Speaker 00

  It's so extraordinary. I'm so excited for you guys to see it. I was actually saying to Mike, one thing I think I can say that doesn't give anything away, but that you all, having followed his stories, is that Mike has this incredible ability to cut to the quick of what it is to be human and how we find ourselves through our connection with others and how each person that we meet along the way, we take with us. And that's really such a theme in everything and that theme is here, though the genre is very different. It's this deep humanity, lack of sentimentality, and yet you will weep. So it's extraordinary. Yeah, really cool.

• 40:25Josh Horowitz?

  It also, Stephen King came out to Toronto. Stephen King doesn't often go out in public for these kinds of things. And look, you've obviously adapted his work before, but that's not a given. I'm curious, like, what is the relationship now with Stephen King? Does he give notes? Is he just totally hands-off? Like, what's...

• 40:43Speaker 01

  Well, I've had the weirdest evolution of that relationship. Because when we did Gerald's Game, I never spoke to him at all. You know, he keeps it at a distance. He has a lot of approvals that he exercises. Like, Steve approves everything, every cast member, kind of every big decision. You submit to him and he approves it. But there's a wall that he is very comfortable on the other side of. And he says all the time, "The book is mine, the movie is yours." And he explained that later, when I finally did meet him. I didn't meet him till after Doctor Sleep was done. And we brought the movie to Bangor and screened it for him. And I sat next to him in an empty movie theater and watched Doctor Sleep.

• 41:28Speaker 01

  It was crazy. No pressure. Oh, no. And I was nauseous the whole time. And I just stared at him, which I'm sure made his experience really weird. And every time, he kind of went, "Huh." I was like, "He likes it."

• 41:44Speaker 01

  And if he didn't, he was like, "Hmm." I'd be like, "Oh, no."

• 41:48Speaker 01

  And that is a long movie. It lasted for a really long time. But I asked him about that separation afterward. And he said, "Well, I can't lose. If the movie's great," people say, "Of course it's great. It's based on a great book. But if the movie sucks, they say, 'The book was better.' I win. I win no matter what." And these days, you know, it was with Gerald's Game, when the movie was over, he sent me an email. And I framed it, and I still have it up in my office. And when Doctor Sleep was over, I got to actually meet him and watch it with him. And then he started to text and email me. And then with Life of Chuck,

• 42:32Speaker 01

  they had said, "Hey, would Steve come out to Toronto and be there?" And I said, "No way. There's no way. He doesn't do that." And then he reached out the week of the screening and said, "I really want to come be in the theater. I really love this movie, and I want to be there for it." And so he showed up. And I asked him, when he got there, when the last time he'd come to a premiere was. And he said it was the Green Mile in 1999. So it was 25 years.

• 43:04Speaker 01

  And, yeah.

• 43:10Speaker 01

  He loves the movie. What was really neat was watching Mark Hamill geek out because Stephen King was there. And he just kept going, "Stephen King is here." And there are these wonderful candid pictures of them in the audience that Steve doesn't know Mark's sitting there going.

• 43:29Speaker 01

  And the festival didn't know he was going to be there either. And so I got to introduce the movie. And I got to say, and I'm delighted to tell you all, Stephen King is in the audience. And he stood up with his can of Diet Pepsi and he waved. And the place got to its feet. And he got a standing ovation before the movie. And I've never seen anything like that. Unbelievable.

• 43:59Josh Horowitz?

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• 44:40Josh Horowitz?

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• 45:14Speaker 00

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• 45:24Speaker 00

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• 45:58Josh Horowitz?

  And the collaboration continues.

• 46:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:01Josh Horowitz?

  Dark Tower.

• 46:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:04Josh Horowitz?

  Another super chill, easy adaptation.

• 46:07Speaker 01

  Piece of cake. Piece of cake. It's gonna be fine.

• 46:13Josh Horowitz?

  Everything's fine. Why is he sweating all of a sudden? What just happened?

• 46:16Speaker 01

  Speaking of nausea, yeah.

• 46:19Josh Horowitz?

  What, I mean, this is a big question, but like, what do you, how do you approach that? How do you capture what is a massive, the massive tale of all time?

• 46:26Speaker 01

  Do you have an answer to that?

• 46:27Josh Horowitz?

  Nice.

• 46:29Speaker 01

  I'd love to know.

• 46:30Josh Horowitz?

  Send you an email with notes.

• 46:32Speaker 01

  I mean, it's the, these are the questions that keep me up at night. But I honestly think the only way to do it is to just do the books. You know, I think, I think the thing about The Dark Tower that's so incredible is Stephen King builds an astonishing universe and it's huge and it's populated with such a richness of characters and scale and scope eventually. But he starts that story with one person following another person in a barren desert. It's one of the greatest opening lines of any novel of all time.

• 47:10Speaker 01

  That's how you do it. You start with two people in a simple story. One is trying to catch the other. That's it. And everything else is gradually added to it. And I think that's how you do The Dark Tower. You build it one brick at a time. I can understand the gravity that has pulled people into being like, "Oh, we'll jump in in the middle," or "We'll jump in over here," or "We try to jump ahead to show the big scale of this thing." You can't start like that. You can't. And fortunately, Stephen King is a master storyteller who's constructed a magnum opus and an epic that begins very intimately and ends very intimately and in the middle expands into this giant world. And I think that's the only way to do it.

• 47:54Speaker 01

  And that's how we're gonna do it. But yeah, we'll see. It's taking forever, so I'm sorry about that.

• 48:01Josh Horowitz?

  They're patient. We'll wait. Don't worry. Raul, when are we gonna get you in a superhero movie? For god's sakes, come on. You've been fan casted. You've been fan casted to death.

• 48:12Speaker 04

  When I start going Jim, maybe. I'm probably not helping myself, to be honest. I don't, yeah, but I don't know. I've had some nillys. It will happen, I'm sure, one day.

• 48:22Josh Horowitz?

  So can you set the record straight? Because I feel like I've heard different things. Did you actually meet, get to meet on Reed Richards, on Mr. Fantastic? Were you up for that?

• 48:32Josh Horowitz?

  Now he's sweating.

• 48:34Speaker 04

  I did a tape.

• 48:35Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 48:36Speaker 04

  That's it. It was blown out of proportion. I read stuff like him and Pedro Pascal were down to the last two. No, I did a tape and I'd never read back. I still, I still have my fingers caught, no.

• 48:51Speaker 04

  I mean, but I've done tapes for Deadpool. I've done tapes for everything. Like, it doesn't mean anything. Like, there's tons of stuff that, life-changing things that I read for, and then it's just like a silent fart. Just disappears. And that's it.

• 49:08Josh Horowitz?

  And then it's an audition for Blimey Manor that changes your life. You never know.

• 49:11Speaker 04

  Then it's the Blimey Manor that changes your life, yeah. But again, it's like, you know, the big one for me was Star Wars. Obviously, I became an actor because of Star Wars and I had some nillys with that. But instead, I got to work with Mark Hamill. See, I brought it back to Usher. Good job. And just because you're in Star Wars doesn't mean that you get to share us the screen with Luke Skywalker.

• 49:34Speaker 01

  Pretty rare, yeah.

• 49:35Speaker 04

  And that was one of the greatest gifts ever. And then this hasn't even been said publicly. So when Mike does this, like Mike showed Carla Chuck, and so Mike will work his way around the caster at a certain point to say, "Do you want to see the series or do you want to see the film?" And when it was Usher's turn, we watched all of Usher over two days randomly with Hayden Christensen. Yeah.

• 50:03Speaker 04

  Who we've become friends with. When I tell you the level of anxiety of watching a show you're in, knowing your scenes are coming up while your hero's next to you, and every time I appeared on camera, he'd elbow me. It was the most surreal. So, yeah, I haven't done Star, but I was like, nothing's gonna top those two things, right? I feel like I've done Star Wars in my own way.

• 50:33Josh Horowitz?

  We've joked about Exorcist, but I would be remiss if I didn't ask a serious kind of update question because, I mean, again, my favorite horror movie of all time, The Exorcist, the original. What are you trying to capture in this? What's important to you about approaching a new Exorcist film?

• 50:50Speaker 01

  Well, it's a familiar feeling of nausea again. I felt the same one with Dr. Sleep, where it was like, what did I do? The Exorcist is one of those movies that was incredibly formative for me. It shaped me. I saw it too young and it really fucked me up.

• 51:15Speaker 01

  But I think, and they've made so many sequels, prequels to it, and none of them come close, right? You can't do The Exorcist. There's no point in remaking it. There's no point in trying to do that story again, or better than the way it was done. So you have to do something new. And you have to do something that rhymes with it and that harmonizes with it, but that isn't trying to replace it or retread it. Yeah, a musical, we're doing a musical.

• 51:48Speaker 01

  But, uh, so my goal with the, the Exorcist, the jazz hands Exorcist.

• 51:58Speaker 01

  It was the scariest movie of its time. That was half a century ago. And my only goal isn't to make the scariest movie ever made, or to remake The Exorcist. My goal is to make the scariest movie I've ever made. And try to make something that scares the shit out of me. And, um, and so that's what the appeal is for me.

• 52:23Speaker 01

  But yeah, what we're doing with it is a completely new thing. It's a completely new story. It's not a retread, it's not a remake, it's not an update. And I can tell you that the two movies I'm watching the most to try to, to try to get this kind of energy channeled. Of course, I'm watching Friedkin's masterpiece. But I'm looking a lot at The Exorcist 3.

• 52:49Speaker 00

  Yes, queen.

• 52:50Josh Horowitz?

  Solid movie.

• 52:51Speaker 01

  Which is a great movie. And has some ideas, I think, that are just ripe to be explored further. And I love that movie.

• 53:00Josh Horowitz?

  Brad Dourif, George C. Scott.

• 53:01Speaker 01

  Best jump scare maybe in cinematic history. In that, that hallway sequence in the hospital is fucking astonishing, if you haven't seen it.

• 53:11Josh Horowitz?

  And it has Patrick Ewing in it. New York Knicks fans, come on.

• 53:14Speaker 01

  Oh yeah. Fabio's in it too. That's, that's the thing we're bringing back.

• 53:20Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, obviously, you gotta keep Fabio.

• 53:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:24Speaker 01

  But yeah, it's, uh, the script is due November 1st, so I gotta get writing.

• 53:30Josh Horowitz?

  We'll get you out of here in a second. So that was the movie you saw too young that fucked you up. Any other nominees for a movie you guys saw early on that maybe was a little too early?

• 53:40Speaker 04

  Showgirls.

• 53:44Speaker 04

  I saw it in Spain, really young. And I thought, when I see a swimming pool, even now, I'm like...

• 53:52Josh Horowitz?

  Uh, quick follow-up, how young?

• 53:54Speaker 04

  Oh, under 10.

• 53:55Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, wow.

• 53:57Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 53:57Josh Horowitz?

  Explains a lot, yeah.

• 54:01Speaker 00

  I saw Jaws at 5, and I lived in Florida. So, it was really bad. I ran from the theater and then didn't go in the water for about a year. Which, yeah, it was not a good move on my mom's part, and she apologized.

• 54:20Speaker 04

  So both of those movies made you both look at water a certain way?

• 54:24Josh Horowitz?

  There you go.

• 54:26Speaker 00

  My go-to answer for this has always been "While You Were Sleeping." This movie really fucks me up. I have this, like, real problem with, like, reality not being reality. And imagine waking up from a coma, and your life is entirely different. And your whole family is like, "This life is amazing for you. Look at your amazing life." And you're like, "This doesn't feel right." And there's this woman staring at you, and it's like, "I love you." And you're like, "I don't know how this feels." And so eventually, you just go along with it. And you're like, "All right, this is my life now." And you've adopted this reality. And then it's like, "Ha ha, just kidding, I was lying the whole time." It's psychological torture at the most specific level.

• 55:07Speaker 04

  Is this the real plot, or is this another Dog Day Afternoon? Because I've not seen it.

• 55:17Speaker 00

  And then your mom goes to space? And you're like, "I don't know what to do with this cat all day."

• 55:24Josh Horowitz?

  Thanks for ruining "While You Were Sleeping" for everybody. We thought it was a fun movie, Kate.

• 55:28Speaker 00

  It is not a fun movie. It's a terrible movie, plus public transportation. It just makes me miss it. I live in LA, I'm stuck in my car, so lonely. So lonely.

• 55:39Josh Horowitz?

  All 500 of us are getting on the subway together after this. It's gonna be okay. Is there a... Okay, for like, say you approach someone that says, "I don't love horror, it's just not for me." What's the starter... What's the entry point? What would you recommend?

• 55:53Speaker 00

  Well, I don't love you, you're not for me.

• 55:57Speaker 04

  I literally said that to Mike.

• 55:59Speaker 01

  He did. Oh, I made a list. So when people, I mean, I always do like, "Oh, you can do Poltergeist." You know, I, I, but the thing I love to do is I'd say, "Oh, Martyrs."

• 56:14Speaker 01

  And if you've seen it, it's so mean.

• 56:19Speaker 01

  But people will be like, "What's a good entry level?" And I'm like, "There's a great French film." And they're like, "Ooh, French." And I'm like, "Yes, it's called Martyrs." And they're like, "Oh, great." And I'm like, "It's nice and gentle. It'll ease you into the, into the, into the genre." And then they call up and they're like, "What the fuck, dude?" And I'm like, "That's what you get for asking me for like, an entry level horror movie." But no, then I say, "No, I watched Gremlins. I don't know."

• 56:42Speaker 00

  Watch while you were sleeping.

• 56:43Speaker 01

  Watch while you were sleeping. With Sandra Bullock and Bill Pullman.

• 56:47Speaker 00

  Terrifying, terrifying.

• 56:48Speaker 01

  Terrifying. Peter Gallagher.

• 56:50Speaker 00

  The eyebrows.

• 56:52Speaker 01

  No, but he's, yeah.

• 56:54Speaker 00

  I know, it's happening to him.

• 56:55Speaker 01

  I know, he's the victim.

• 56:57Speaker 00

  He's the final girl.

• 56:58Speaker 01

  He's the final girl of While You Were Sleeping.

• 57:00Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's very sad.

• 57:02Josh Horowitz?

  Everybody stick around for the While You Were Sleeping reunion in this room right after. Suddenly changed completely. We're gonna end with a happy, sad, confused, profoundly random questions, guys. As if these haven't been random enough. Are you ready?

• 57:17Speaker 00

  Ready.

• 57:18Josh Horowitz?

  Okay. Are you dog or cat people? Dog.

• 57:22Speaker 01

  Dog, dog. Dog.

• 57:27Speaker 01

  But I don't hate cats.

• 57:28Speaker 00

  Liar, liar, liar.

• 57:30Speaker 01

  Please stop saying that on the internet.

• 57:31Speaker 00

  I love cats. If we have to choose, we have to pick one, so.

• 57:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, cats are great.

• 57:35Speaker 00

  Are they?

• 57:38Josh Horowitz?

  Wow.

• 57:42Josh Horowitz?

  My favorite's Kate, my new favorite.

• 57:46Josh Horowitz?

  What do you collect, guys? Do you collect anything?

• 57:49Speaker 00

  What do we collect?

• 57:50Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 57:52Speaker 00

  Parts in Mike Flanagan shows.

• 57:56Speaker 04

  Who's winning that?

• 57:57Speaker 00

  Who's doing what?

• 57:58Speaker 04

  Who's winning the pots in the...

• 57:59Speaker 01

  I actually know.

• 58:01Speaker 00

  It's Henry, right?

• 58:01Speaker 01

  It's a tie between you and Henry.

• 58:03Speaker 00

  Woo!

• 58:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:04Speaker 00

  Exorcist, here I come! I think you need to win this race. Right? Yeah, this is... there's a problem. There's a problem. Henry, Henry has to, yeah... We like Henry. We have to have discussions, yeah.

• 58:17Speaker 01

  I collect movie props.

• 58:19Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 58:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, I have a lot of movie props.

• 58:21Josh Horowitz?

  From other movies or your own?

• 58:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, a lot of other movies. I finally am smart enough to steal them from my own movies now, which is, it took me way too long to figure that out. But no, I've got a bunch of... I've got one of the baseball bats from The Natural. I've got Raccoonie from Everything Everywhere All at Once. Yeah. Like, yeah, yeah. One of the... there are four Wonder Boys, I think, in the world. I've got one of them, but yeah.

• 58:46Josh Horowitz?

  Cool. What about you guys? Do you collect anything, Carla Rule?

• 58:48Speaker 00

  I used to collect high heels. I was always shorter than I wanted to be.

• 58:53Speaker 04

  That was gonna be my answer.

• 58:56Speaker 00

  I'm giving some to you because now I live in New York City and I don't wear them. Her whole just has a closet full of Carla's shoes.

• 59:04Speaker 04

  Yeah, what's the problem?

• 59:05Speaker 00

  Our feet are the same size.

• 59:06Speaker 04

  Have you seen Bon Jovi Always video?

• 59:11Speaker 04

  I... mine's everything. Warhammer, hot toys. I shouldn't... I shouldn't have adult money. It's just, I piss it away so fast on like, "Look at this Darth Vader helmet," or...

• 59:27Speaker 00

  Didn't you recently get into watches?

• 59:30Speaker 04

  Watches? Not as relatable.

• 59:35Speaker 04

  Just action figures. But yeah, everything. I just, yeah, I have an addictive personality and if I'm not doing bad stuff, drinking, it's buying toys and I think that's the safe thing now, so, yeah.

• 59:47Josh Horowitz?

  What's the wallpaper on any of your respective phones? Anything interesting?

• 59:52Speaker 00

  Uh, mine's my kids.

• 59:54Speaker 04

  Banjo! It's a duck.

• 59:57Speaker 00

  Banjo!

• 1:00:01Speaker 00

  Who's that text from? Can you just read it out loud for us?

• 1:00:07Speaker 04

  "Once the panel is done, they bring you back over."

• 1:00:13Speaker 04

  It's nothing exciting on my phone.

• 1:00:19Josh Horowitz?

  Last actor any of you were mistaken for? Does it ever happen?

• 1:00:23Speaker 00

  Oh, will you tell the, um... The airport story.

• 1:00:27Speaker 01

  This is great.

• 1:00:27Speaker 00

  This is great.

• 1:00:28Speaker 01

  I'll try to keep it very short. So Kate calls me, she's traveling from LA to Vancouver. And she says, we were talking about the, the Jon Voight story, or the?

• 1:00:39Speaker 00

  I was thinking about the Elizabeth Olsen story, but this is-

• 1:00:41Speaker 01

  Oh, no, no, no, okay, no, the Elizabeth Olsen one's even better.

• 1:00:44Speaker 00

  The Jon Voight story's a better story.

• 1:00:44Speaker 01

  So we're going through the airport together, we're going through security, and I see this happen sometimes, where Kate comes around and someone's like, "Go over there." Oh? And you see the like, recognition moment happen, and the TSA guy is like, "Uh-uh, uh-uh, come on through, come on through." And Kate's like, "Thank you very much." And they're like, "Oh, wow, wow, wow." And Kate walks by, and I'm kind of waiting behind anonymously, which is fine. And, and she goes through, and he turns to me and to the other TSA people, and he goes, "You know who that was?" And I'm like, and he goes, "Elizabeth Olsen."

• 1:01:22Speaker 00

  She was in four Marvel movies.

• 1:01:23Speaker 01

  She was in four Marvel movies.

• 1:01:25Speaker 00

  Which I also don't think is right.

• 1:01:26Speaker 01

  I don't think that's, math is correct either.

• 1:01:30Speaker 01

  And I'm there, and I'm like, "Well, yes, it was."

• 1:01:34Speaker 00

  Certainly was.

• 1:01:36Speaker 01

  And then I walked, ran up, "Elizabeth!"

• 1:01:39Speaker 00

  No autographs, please.

• 1:01:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:42Speaker 00

  My favorite was, I was sharing a car with Jon Voight once, and he turned to me and he goes, "You kind of look like my daughter."

• 1:01:49Speaker 01

  Wow. The best part about that, though, and where I went there because of the mistaken identity thing, was she called me and said, "I'm in a car with Christopher Walken."

• 1:02:02Speaker 00

  Who was so good as the cat in Dog Day Afternoon.

• 1:02:08Speaker 00

  More cowbell. Now. No, I, at this point, get, "You look so much like Carly Gugino, did anyone tell you that?" And generally, I say, "I do get that often." So that's, that's what's, at this point, I did get mistaken for many years, and now that seems to be the thing.

• 1:02:30Speaker 04

  It's okay.

• 1:02:30Speaker 00

  Just look, there's no one who looks like you.

• 1:02:32Speaker 04

  There's only one rule. John Krasinski, I get, but that's like just, I look, no one goes, "Oh my god, it's John Krasinski."

• 1:02:39Speaker 04

  But like, if you go on a clip, it will say Brown Jim, or...

• 1:02:46Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:02:46Speaker 00

  Brown Jim.

• 1:02:48Speaker 04

  I don't get recognized, so I don't get mistaken either. I just, I just, yeah.

• 1:02:55Speaker 04

  I had Mosby, I saw that, yeah, sometimes.

• 1:02:57Speaker 01

  I will say, the group text chain has an awful lot of, of John Krasinski memes that we put up when Rahul's doing stuff.

• 1:03:06Speaker 04

  He's the reaction gif, yeah.

• 1:03:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:09Josh Horowitz?

  The worst note a director has ever given you, obviously.

• 1:03:12Speaker 04

  Oh, take the banana out first, put the bread loaf.

• 1:03:17Josh Horowitz?

  Yes.

• 1:03:20Josh Horowitz?

  I love a good callback, well done.

• 1:03:24Josh Horowitz?

  Anyone else? Anything jump to mind of a...

• 1:03:27Speaker 00

  No.

• 1:03:28Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, good.

• 1:03:31Speaker 00

  I can't think of it right now, there's, there are several, but...

• 1:03:34Josh Horowitz?

  You've blocked it out, for the best, yeah. And finally, in the spirit of happy second few, who's an actor that always makes you happy? You see them on screen, you light up.

• 1:03:43Speaker 00

  Rahul Kohli.

• 1:03:46Josh Horowitz?

  Lies.

• 1:03:50Josh Horowitz?

  Anyone else?

• 1:03:51Speaker 01

  Like, just in general?

• 1:03:52Josh Horowitz?

  In general, yeah.

• 1:03:53Speaker 01

  Yeah. Oh, I mean, damn, there's thousands.

• 1:03:55Speaker 00

  There's so many, I know, there's so many.

• 1:03:59Speaker 00

  I mean, I can't not watch Meryl Streep. I just, it's such a predictable answer, and yet, she made me want to act. So every time I see her, I'm just like blown away by that woman.

• 1:04:09Speaker 01

  I, I always love watching Tom Hanks, always. Like, just, there's a familiarity and warmth to it. But you know who, like, delights me constantly these days? Is Jack Quaid. Whenever I see Jack Quaid pop up, I'm like, "Ah!" Yeah.

• 1:04:23Speaker 00

  I actually, I actually have the one, because we just ran into each other here, too. Mads Mikkelsen. That man...

• 1:04:28Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:04:29Speaker 00

  Mads is here? That man makes me happy every time I see him on screen. That guy is unbelievable.

• 1:04:36Speaker 01

  He's here?

• 1:04:37Speaker 00

  He's, he's actually here, guys. I also thought of my note.

• 1:04:40Speaker 01

  Oh!

• 1:04:41Speaker 00

  I want to meet him.

• 1:04:42Speaker 01

  I want to meet Mads Mikkelsen.

• 1:04:42Speaker 00

  Let's get an autograph.

• 1:04:43Speaker 04

  Matt Berry. We were just...

• 1:04:45Speaker 01

  Ah, yeah!

• 1:04:46Speaker 04

  Every, every time I see Matt Berry, I just...

• 1:04:50Josh Horowitz?

  Good call.

• 1:04:51Speaker 00

  I also, I thought of my note, my director note story, that I'd like to tell.

• 1:04:59Speaker 00

  So, in the TV show Midnight Mass.

• 1:05:03Josh Horowitz?

  Who directed that one? Oh shit, here we are.

• 1:05:05Speaker 01

  Who can say?

• 1:05:06Speaker 00

  It's hard to know. There is a scene where my character is doing a little exposition and lets everybody know that they've sent the boats back to the mainland. They're called ferries.

• 1:05:17Speaker 01

  Ferries.

• 1:05:18Speaker 00

  Ferries.

• 1:05:19Speaker 01

  It's pronounced ferries.

• 1:05:20Speaker 00

  Ferries.

• 1:05:22Speaker 01

  Ferries.

• 1:05:22Speaker 00

  Ferries.

• 1:05:23Speaker 01

  Ferries with an E.

• 1:05:24Speaker 00

  And I want you to imagine Mike and I doing this from across a soundstage at each other at 3:00 in the morning.

• 1:05:31Speaker 00

  Say, "Cut, ferries."

• 1:05:32Speaker 01

  It's ferries.

• 1:05:33Speaker 00

  I would say ferries.

• 1:05:34Speaker 01

  And that rhymes with, like, it's ferries that rhymes with berries.

• 1:05:38Speaker 00

  Ferries?

• 1:05:38Speaker 01

  Yeah. Not ferries, that's Tinker Bell. Ferries like Tinker Bell with wings.

• 1:05:42Speaker 00

  For a real long time.

• 1:05:44Speaker 01

  With an E.

• 1:05:45Speaker 00

  And everyone is, you feel the whole vibe shift and they're like, "Fuck, Mom and Dad are fighting."

• 1:05:51Speaker 00

  And, after a while, of going, "Ferries?"

• 1:05:54Speaker 01

  Ferries.

• 1:05:55Speaker 00

  Ferries.

• 1:05:55Speaker 01

  It's ferries.

• 1:05:56Speaker 00

  Ferries.

• 1:05:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:57Speaker 00

  He just goes, "Fuck it, action."

• 1:06:06Josh Horowitz?

  Well, thank you all for being at this therapy session for Mike and Kate. Thank you all so much for coming out. Give it up for this amazing group, Mike Flanagan, Rahul Kohli, Carl Lojino, Kate Siegel, everybody!

• 1:06:25Speaker 02

  And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley and I definitely wasn't supposed to do this by Josh.

• 1:06:44Speaker 00

  You've got your favorite blanket, a freshly poured drink, and a cold case burning a hole in your streaming queue. You're not just watching true crime, you're running the investigation from the comfort of your couch. Welcome to Murder She Watched, the podcast where we recap, dissect, and slightly overanalyze some of the best and craziest true crime documentaries on

• 1:07:07Speaker 00

  Our favorite streamers. Did the spouse do it? Why is the shady neighbor wearing leather gloves in July? Why did this guy agree to be interviewed in this documentary? We ask the tough questions that you're often just screaming at your TV. So every week, we break down the twists, red herrings, and absurd documentaries that have kept you up all night. It's high drama, cozy vibes, and absolute couch detective energy. Grab your throw blanket and hit subscribe. Search Murder She Watched wherever you listen to podcasts and let's solve this thing together.