Paul Mescal

Josh is catching up with Paul Mescal at a very interesting time. He's only a few years into his film career but with an Oscar nomination under his belt thanks to AFTERSUN and much loved projects like NORMAL PEOPLE and ALL OF US STRANGERS, he's being tested as a major movie star in GLADIATOR II. In this candid chat, Paul talks about dealing with so much attention and what he's prioritizing with so many opportunities at his feet. SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS! Uncommon Goods – Visit UncommonGoods.com/podcast/HappySad for 15% off BetterHelp -- Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠BetterHelp.com/HSC ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠for 10% off UPCOMING LIVE EVENTS 12/1 -- Natasha Lyonne at 92Y in NY -- Tickets here 12/3 -- John David Washington at 92Y in NY -- ⁠Tickets here⁠ 12/18 – Billy Eichner at 92Y in NY – Tickets here 12/19 -- Ben Schwartz at 92Y in NY -- ⁠Tickets here Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Happy Sad Confused patreon here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! We've got discount codes to live events, merch, early access, exclusive episodes, video versions of the podcast, and more! To watch episodes of Happy Sad Confused, subscribe to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Josh's youtube channel here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:27Speaker 01

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• 0:57Josh Horowitz?

  So what's your algorithm? What do you get?

• 0:58Speaker 03

  My algorithm, I just got like, I gotta, I've gotta quit the internet. I've gotta quit it. It's like too much like, it's too much like of yourself.

• 1:08Josh Horowitz?

  It's all, you're feeding, it's feeding back into you.

• 1:10Speaker 03

  There's not enough bakeries and there's too much of, of me.

• 1:15Josh Horowitz?

  You need to block yourself.

• 1:17Speaker 03

  I've gotta.

• 1:17Josh Horowitz?

  You need to filter yourself out.

• 1:19Speaker 03

  Quit that.

• 1:21Josh Horowitz?

  More McTeese, less Paul.

• 1:23Speaker 03

  Anything else other than me, I take at this point.

• 1:25Speaker 04

  Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins now.

• 1:33Josh Horowitz?

  I'm Josh Horowitz and today on Happy, Sag Infused, Paul Meskow is here. This has been a long time coming. Here we are after an exhaustive Gladiator 2 press tour that's included hot wings and puppies. Finally.

• 1:46Speaker 03

  And now happy, sad, confused.

• 1:48Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, this is the ultimate test for you men.

• 1:49Speaker 03

  This is the ultimate. This is the final boss.

• 1:52Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:53Josh Horowitz?

  Thank you for doing this, man.

• 1:55Speaker 03

  Really excited, genuinely excited to be on.

• 1:58Josh Horowitz?

  Thanks, man. Um, so yeah, so talk to me a little bit about how are you not a shell of a man? Cause I saw you a couple of days ago.

• 2:03Speaker 03

  Firmly a shell of a man. Let's, let's, let's open there. I'm like, yeah, I'm.

• 2:09Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, I'm not all there, man.

• 2:12Speaker 03

  What's my name? No, I'm good, I'm good. It's just like, haven't done something like this before.

• 2:18Josh Horowitz?

  Yes.

• 2:19Speaker 03

  But, we've been like, I'm not, we've just been super well looked after, but even with that, it's like...

• 2:26Josh Horowitz?

  It's a lot.

• 2:26Speaker 03

  It's a lot of talking, it's a lot of like, seeing your old, your big old face everywhere and saying your own voice, but we're...

• 2:33Josh Horowitz?

  Are you sick of yourself a little bit?

• 2:34Speaker 03

  Oh, fully, fully, fully.

• 2:36Josh Horowitz?

  If you weren't, that would be worrisome.

• 2:37Speaker 03

  Oh my god, absolutely. I don't know how people do this consistently.

• 2:43Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 2:44Speaker 03

  You know?

• 2:44Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 2:45Speaker 03

  I don't, I don't know.

• 2:46Josh Horowitz?

  So, I have been, I have been watching a lot of the conversations you've been having, as I alluded to. You've been doing kind of lots of fun, different things.

• 2:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:54Josh Horowitz?

  I think my favorite is you confronting the uber Paul Meskell fan, competing in trivia and losing to her, basically.

• 3:03Speaker 03

  No, she's amazing. Yeah. She knew my life better than I did.

• 3:07Josh Horowitz?

  You're a competitive person. Did you take that well?

• 3:10Speaker 03

  I, do you know what? I didn't take it well, but I tip my hat to Larissa, like she, the better, the better Paul won, firmly. Yeah.

• 3:20Josh Horowitz?

  It's good to know we have a backup Paul, just in case.

• 3:22Speaker 03

  Exactly, if, if it all goes...

• 3:23Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 3:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, if it all goes, so, sorry. Hers, she can be me.

• 3:29Josh Horowitz?

  So, okay, so, I mean, we joke about it, but it's true. I mean, like, right now, you're, you're having a crazy moment.

• 3:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:34Josh Horowitz?

  You are, legit, as you well know. You know, the footage from Dublin, that we were at the LA premiere together, like, you're getting a lot of love, a lot of crazy, wonderful energy.

• 3:45Josh Horowitz?

  How do you reconcile that with like, you know, 14-year-old Paul inside?

• 3:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:50Josh Horowitz?

  Who, who didn't, like, none of us had that.

• 3:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:53Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, there must be kind of like a surreal doesn't begin to describe that.

• 3:59Speaker 03

  It's surreal and it's like...

• 4:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's totally surreal. It's like I've had, even the Oscars wasn't this.

• 4:11Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 4:11Speaker 03

  Like, it was a different, and I think the great thing about the Oscars is that it's like a total celebration of film, but it's shared amongst many, many, many people. Whereas with this, it's like, this is also shared, but with less people.

• 4:28Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 4:31Speaker 03

  And honestly, it's like, part of me is like, not to say this, but like, part of me is like, I'm, I wonder if I'm gonna pull out of this. Because I'm like, nothing on anything else, it's just like, it's a lot of, it's a lot of it. But having said that, it's been, the people that I've met, I've been met with like incredible kindness and generosity. It's more so to do with just the, the scale of,

• 5:04Speaker 03

  it's just your perception of yourself changes very, very, very, very, very quickly over a very short period of time.

• 5:10Josh Horowitz?

  Well, it's funny, and in listening to some past conversations you had, you were talking a lot about how like life really changed with normal people.

• 5:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 5:19Josh Horowitz?

  And to hear you talk back then, a couple of years ago even, you were like, yeah, there are degrees, things are a little different now, but the biggest change was that. Now, having gone through this though, maybe.

• 5:28Speaker 03

  I think I might be a bit wrong, like whether I'm right or wrong, I don't, I don't know if I'll fully know that until like,

• 5:34Josh Horowitz?

  Right, be a little perspective.

• 5:35Speaker 03

  Five, six months down the line. But I think as awful as COVID was, now when I look back on it, I'm like, like, thank God.

• 5:46Josh Horowitz?

  You kind of eased into fame and all that.

• 5:48Speaker 03

  Away, away from people because if I'm struggling with this junction now, having had that experience, I don't know what that would have been like at that, at that moment. This is probably my first time articulating that, but it's, it's, it's a specific skill set that you don't learn. I didn't learn it by proximity to this industry growing up. I didn't grow up in LA, New York, or London. I didn't know I wanted to be an actor until much, you know, like, it was never, it was never on the radar. So there was never, there's no part of me.

• 6:26Speaker 03

  Learning, like any other childhood with the kind of desire to be

• 6:31Josh Horowitz?

  Yep.

• 6:32Speaker 03

  Out in the world, but also you're smart enough to realize that like that's that's the gig.

• 6:39Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 6:39Speaker 03

  Get out in front of the movie and and you do your job, but there's a certain tax that comes with that, I think.

• 6:46Josh Horowitz?

  So my my algorithm, my internet algorithm is basically serving me a lot of Paul.

• 6:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 6:51Josh Horowitz?

  Basically Paul, dog videos and New York City bakeries. That's what I get in my feed.

• 6:55Speaker 03

  I get New York City bakeries.

• 6:57Josh Horowitz?

  Do you? I was gonna ask you, so what's your algorithm? What do you get?

• 6:59Speaker 03

  My algorithm, I just got like, I gotta, I've gotta quit the internet. I've gotta quit it. It's like too much like, it's too much like of yourself.

• 7:09Josh Horowitz?

  It's all you're feeding, it's feeding back into you.

• 7:11Speaker 03

  There's not enough bakeries and there's too much of of me.

• 7:16Josh Horowitz?

  You need to block yourself.

• 7:17Speaker 03

  I've gotta.

• 7:18Josh Horowitz?

  You need to filter yourself out.

• 7:19Speaker 03

  Quit that.

• 7:21Josh Horowitz?

  More Mitzi, less Paul.

• 7:23Speaker 03

  Anything else other than me, I take at this point, but like it's, it's, I think it's just the way that that algorithms are cursed, cursed things.

• 7:34Josh Horowitz?

  Are you, and I'm saying this with love, are you sick of talking about Gladiator? Do you want to talk about something else? What do you want to talk about today? How should we use our time?

• 7:40Speaker 03

  I'm happy to have any, like, you're a great interviewer. I'm happy to go wherever we, but it's, it's categorically the most I've ever spoken about.

• 7:49Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 7:50Speaker 03

  Any film. I think it's the most that anyone has ever spoken about any film, but.

• 7:54Josh Horowitz?

  But what was it like to work with Ridley? What was it really like? I mean, I've asked you that like three times, so I can only imagine.

• 8:00Speaker 03

  I can talk, we can do 45 minutes on Ridley, like.

• 8:02Josh Horowitz?

  I'm obsessed.

• 8:03Speaker 03

  Like, so like that'll never get.

• 8:06Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 8:07Speaker 03

  That'll never get tiresome. I have like, it's just a weird, you know, when you do this amount of talking, you start feeling like you're becoming disingenuous because you're being asked to tell the truth.

• 8:19Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 8:19Speaker 03

  Consistently.

• 8:20Josh Horowitz?

  It's still the truth.

• 8:21Speaker 03

  It's still the truth.

• 8:22Josh Horowitz?

  No, I get this, I mean, I have it such a, in such a minute, different level, like I'll do multiple Q and A's with people and I ask the same question and it's like only in my own head, I'm like.

• 8:31Speaker 03

  We got asked a question from another interviewer that you had asked, asked, like, and it was actually being, it was referenced that it was a question that my friend Josh had asked earlier and I was like, this is like inception level of press tour.

• 8:49Speaker 03

  But we like, as I've said to you, it's like.

• 8:54Speaker 03

  Paramount have fully, and not to do the thing of like flying the flag, but they've like really, really, really looked after us and they've done a great job with getting, like if there's anybody on planet Earth that doesn't know that there's a Gladiator 2 film coming out, they probably don't have a phone.

• 9:10Josh Horowitz?

  That's true, that's true. So before, a couple Gladiator 2 things, I do want to mention, you're doing SNL soon.

• 9:16Speaker 03

  I'm doing SNL soon.

• 9:17Josh Horowitz?

  How do you feel about that? I mean, are you nervous, excited?

• 9:20Speaker 03

  I'm really, both, both things. I mean, I'm kind of grateful for the fact that I haven't spent the last couple of months knowing about it, sitting in my room being like, what, what am I gonna do? But I've asked lots of my friends who've done it before, and I think, I'm just gonna throw myself in there. And the great thing is, I don't have a huge amount of time before it starts, so I'm just, like, I'll arrive into it, like, looking forward to actually be able to do some version of the work that I love.

• 9:49Josh Horowitz?

  Right, act for, yeah, which is what you love.

• 9:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 9:51Josh Horowitz?

  Do you bring celebrity impressions? Are you gonna do Saoirse, Daisy, Andrew Scott? What do you got?

• 9:56Speaker 03

  Do you know, I haven't, no celebrity impressions on the cards as of yet, but I'm waiting to see what, I mean, I'm handing over the ideas, I think, to the great writers that exist there. I have a couple of like ideas about potential sketches, but beyond that, I think it should be best idea wins, and that's their, that's their wheelhouse.

• 10:21Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. Alright, so let's talk a little Gladiator. I mean, so as you approach something like this, which is a ginormous undertaking, but from the great Ridley Scott, how much is fear of failure a motivator for you? Is that, or is that a negative space? Do you don't want to act from a negative space?

• 10:36Speaker 03

  No, I think fear of failure is, is, or for me at least, it's par for the course. And maybe it's not so much fear of failure, it's fear of this idea where the thing that you love most in the world can always get taken away from you.

• 10:54Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 10:55Speaker 03

  So you want to put your best, and it's not necessarily, that's not inextricably tied to just Gladiator 2, it's, it's everything you ever, I think of that, I would love to have a little bit less of that, but having said that.

• 11:14Speaker 03

  The way things have gone in my career in the last five or six years, it's been a consistent thing. So I don't really want it to disappear too much because it's indicative of

• 11:22Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 11:23Speaker 03

  something that in an industry sense has been working for me.

• 11:27Josh Horowitz?

  When, so when does imposter syndrome strike most in something like this? Is it before you even get on set? Or once you're in it, you're kind of like, okay, this is still just acting. Because it sounds like from our conversations and hearing you talk, it's like, maybe the fear was this is going to be a totally different kind of thing. But the reality is like, oh.

• 11:44Speaker 03

  It was in moments, but I think the imposter syndrome thing that actors talk about happens at different junctions for different actors. For me, it's like in the lead up to it and in the talking about it afterwards.

• 12:00Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, really?

• 12:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 12:02Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. Why is the talking about it? Because you, but you've seen the movie. You're proud of the movie. You feel so like, why?

• 12:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, no, it's more such to do with the fact that you you feel somewhat removed from the creative part of it. So you're, I don't, I don't, I don't know why. That's a good question. I don't know why exactly it's that, but it feels like a more sterile environment. Like you're trying to, no matter how well you can kind of document a story that happened on set, it's nowhere close to the feeling of making it.

• 12:35Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. And there's that that itch in the back of your throat like, am I commodifying? Am I like?

• 12:40Speaker 03

  Am I commodifying? And you're like, I've said this story a thousand times. So I'm going to say it again in a way that feels like acting, but in a totally like weird like context. But my friend, Jessie Buckley, said something when we were making Hamlet. She was like, and I get it now. Where she was, and I couldn't understand at the time. She was like, wouldn't it be great if just nobody ever saw these things? And I don't, it's not meant in the sincere sense. It's just like, nothing is ever as good as the making of it.

• 13:10Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 13:11Speaker 03

  No matter how well something is received, no matter how like the preparation process is fun, but the act of making it feels.

• 13:22Josh Horowitz?

  And that's why you're doing it.

• 13:23Speaker 03

  Precious.

• 13:23Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 13:24Speaker 03

  Precious, precious, precious. And I'm like, oh, yeah, I get, I fully.

• 13:27Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 13:28Speaker 03

  Fully get that now because you're never, you're, I'm yet to come across.

• 13:34Speaker 03

  I've never come across an event in the filmmaking process that I've been accurately able to describe.

• 13:40Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 13:40Speaker 03

  Truly, like I'm able to like describe an event, but I can't get to the

• 13:45Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 13:45Speaker 03

  root of what the feeling is often.

• 13:54Josh Horowitz?

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• 14:38Josh Horowitz?

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• 15:22Josh Horowitz?

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• 16:07Josh Horowitz?

  So let's make it easy for anybody who wants help to get help. That's where Rula comes in. Here's the thing a lot of online therapy platforms don't actually talk about. Most don't take insurance. That means you're either paying out of pocket or signing up for some very expensive monthly subscription. Rula does it all differently. They work with over 120 insurance plans. So the average copay, I can't get over this. It's just 15 bucks a session. So basically, two of your lattes, okay? A pretty good deal, if you ask me. That means you can get real therapy from a licensed professional without breaking the bank. And Rula doesn't just set you up and leave you alone. They give you that therapist and then they're along the way, the whole journey with you to make sure your care is working for you and you're actually making progress, hitting your goals.

• 16:51Josh Horowitz?

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• 17:21Josh Horowitz?

  So I want to get back to something else you said. So that feeling of, oh, I might not be able to do this again. And I think that's valid, especially on something like this. You're going to be like, if this hadn't worked, you would have a career. You'd be fine. You might never get another shot at this kind of a thing, for good or for bad.

• 17:38Speaker 03

  Yeah. Well, to be totally honest, it's like this, this, like, this isn't...

• 17:48Speaker 03

  That'd be all and end all for me. It's like, there's, there's, there is very few films that I would want to do on this scale, generally. Ridley Scott makes that so, like makes, makes, I think any actor worth their salt want to jump at it.

• 18:06Josh Horowitz?

  Yep.

• 18:07Speaker 03

  But it's not like getting into Gladiator 2 has suddenly shifted the goalposts where I am like, I want to do Gladiator 3, 4, 5, and 6, and 7, and 8, and 9, and 10. That's, that's, that's, that's just not the case because that's not...

• 18:27Speaker 03

  I, I, I love making independent films. Like, there's two kind of independent films coming out next year and, you know what I mean?

• 18:35Josh Horowitz?

  I do. But I, on the other hand, this proves, maybe proves to you, again, like, oh, you can work on this level and with an artist like Ridley Scott and it can still feel authentic and grounded and rewarding.

• 18:48Speaker 03

  Absolutely.

• 18:48Josh Horowitz?

  It's possible. It's not often.

• 18:50Speaker 03

  It's not often. And it's like, even at that, it's like, you're, you're not just doing it for that feeling either. You are also doing it for the bits that feel epic and big.

• 19:01Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 19:02Speaker 03

  The furthest thing from independent cinema. You're doing it also for that reason. You're doing it to, to address the Colosseum at full voice with blood pouring off your face.

• 19:13Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 19:14Speaker 03

  But you're also doing it for the moments where you can find a lane that feels like an avenue to express artistically the way that you want to express.

• 19:25Josh Horowitz?

  Are there examples you can think of in films of this type? I mean, you could probably point to the original Gladiator for one, but beyond that, where you've seen performances that have cut through and have felt authentic and grounded, whether you had it in your mind or not, but like, that can get past all the bombast and et cetera and still feel as authentic and real as the stuff you do in A Lost Daughter or whatever.

• 19:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'm sure there's, brain's gonna be stuck.

• 19:55Josh Horowitz?

  Why are you asking me to think, Josh? Have you seen what?

• 19:58Speaker 03

  I tend to think thoughts and fails miserably. What are some that jump out to your mind?

• 20:04Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, so you grew up not...

• 20:06Speaker 03

  Indiana Jones.

• 20:07Josh Horowitz?

  I was gonna mention Indiana Jones. That makes sense.

• 20:08Speaker 03

  That's, that's a big one. Some of the Star Wars, you've got some like, you know, those kind of Daniel Craig and James Bond like he's like that that stuff really feels like. But again, it's still a different muscle. Like, I'm not gonna, I'm not turning on. Indiana Jones Last Crusade and going like, I want like, even though the performance is fantastic, I'm not looking at at that like I would.

• 20:35Josh Horowitz?

  Right. It's a different metric.

• 20:37Speaker 03

  It's a different metric, but that's the challenge.

• 20:40Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 20:40Speaker 03

  That's the, that's the, the challenge of a, of a big film like this.

• 20:45Josh Horowitz?

  How serious do you think, I know you're gonna be working with Ridley again, but how serious is he about Gladiator three? How many actual conversations have you had with him?

• 20:52Speaker 03

  I've had, like, I mean this sincerely, I've had about two conversations with him and they've been in an interview context. But like, we're, we're, we're hopefully looking at other things that will happen, happen before that. I think the key thing with that is, is that. There can't be any rush with, with that.

• 21:16Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 21:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, the, yeah.

• 21:19Josh Horowitz?

  Any past castmates you want to enlist? Do we get Andrew Scott in Gladiator gear?

• 21:24Speaker 03

  I think we, I think we set it in Ireland and we get Searce and Andrew Scott and we get Jesse and we get Barry and we get.

• 21:31Josh Horowitz?

  Oh my god, the all-stars, the Irish all-stars.

• 21:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, we get them, we get them all, we get them all in the mix. Yeah.

• 21:41Josh Horowitz?

  Sold. I spoke to Joe prior to this for Quiet Place, Joe Quinn.

• 21:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 21:48Josh Horowitz?

  When I asked him his celebrity doppelganger, he said Daisy Edgar Jones.

• 21:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 21:53Josh Horowitz?

  Do you see that?

• 21:54Speaker 03

  I think, I, I, I think they, did he say he gets that? He, he gets.

• 21:59Josh Horowitz?

  That's a good question.

• 22:00Speaker 03

  He gets it or does he agree with it?

• 22:02Josh Horowitz?

  No, I think he said he gets that.

• 22:04Speaker 03

  Isn't it such a weird thing that's happening? Like this whole celebrity doppelganger and like all of the like, it's such a, I don't know.

• 22:14Speaker 03

  I think there's definitely like resemblances.

• 22:17Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 22:17Speaker 03

  For sure.

• 22:18Josh Horowitz?

  But what were you gonna say about the celebrity doppelganger thing? You think it's a strange fascination with it or strange?

• 22:24Speaker 03

  It's just like it's like there's always it's it's it's always kind of existed, right?

• 22:28Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 22:28Speaker 03

  It's always been like this is who my celebrity look alike. And it's like, I don't know, I'm literally thinking about this live in my mind about like why that feels odd to me as a thing that has always been there.

• 22:43Josh Horowitz?

  Well, I think it's in anything. It's like we're fascinated that there's another version of ourselves in the universe, whether they're celebrity or not, like we're all unique unicorns, but.

• 22:53Speaker 03

  But then there's, yeah.

• 22:54Josh Horowitz?

  But wait, someone.

• 22:55Speaker 03

  But there's faces that we see more like frequently than others and we associate a certain likeness with them.

• 23:00Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 23:01Speaker 03

  Weird.

• 23:04Josh Horowitz?

  So I know you didn't grow up like a cinephile. You were, as you said, you were kind of a late bloomer to all of this. That being said, you watch movies, I would imagine.

• 23:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 23:11Josh Horowitz?

  So what, I mean, were you were you a Harry Potter kid? Were you Star Wars? Were you Indiana Jones? Like, what were you into?

• 23:18Speaker 03

  Well, my brother was the big Indiana Jones guy and that got me into it. I loved, I mentioned this before, but I loved the film SWAT with Colin Farrell and Samuel L. Jackson. Like I was, that was kind of my goat too.

• 23:32Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 23:33Speaker 03

  Even all the way up to drama school, like I remember dad showing me The Godfathers for the first time.

• 23:41Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 23:42Speaker 03

  Pre-drama school, like probably sixteen, seventeen.

• 23:48Speaker 03

  They were the first kind of like old, like older films that I was kind of madly impressed with. But that, it really only came when I was in drama school and knew that I was way behind the ball in terms of.

• 24:01Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 24:02Speaker 03

  Absorbing films. But having said that, I think it has taught me that like for acting, I think it's so, it's much more important to me that actors are curious and.

• 24:18Speaker 03

  Curious individuals and people rather than like being well versed in what films you're seeing and all that. That all massively helps, don't get me wrong.

• 24:26Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, but to actually know about the world as opposed to other actors.

• 24:30Speaker 03

  To know about the world and to be curious about the the the characters you're playing. I think the the great thing about watching films and reading plays is they give you reference points for characters so that you can kind of pick at the

• 24:41Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 24:42Speaker 03

  At certain archetypes.

• 24:43Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 24:43Speaker 03

  But and it's also such an individualized thing like some people like at three, four, five and six know that they're going to be actors. So like and maybe part of it's jealousy for me that I didn't know that. So like I'm like still trying to like, I remember being in drama school and pretending that I'd read like Greek mythology and stuff. And I was like, oh, yes, yes, yes, Oedipus, of course.

• 25:05Josh Horowitz?

  That's a scary road to go down, too many.

• 25:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was just lots of nodding and going, yeah, I think I agree with that point.

• 25:13Speaker 03

  And like, but I I I kind of played catch up in that sense in in drama school.

• 25:19Josh Horowitz?

  Do you feel because like I I have a sense from the outside looking in, talking to folks week in, week out. There is this wave, there's a new wave of really exciting talent around your age that I'm seeing. A lot of them are Irish, some of them aren't.

• 25:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 25:31Josh Horowitz?

  Do you feel kinship with kind of like the Shalames of the world, the Barry Keoghan, the Austin Butler's? Like, do you feel like I'm part of a wave and this is kind of exciting?

• 25:41Speaker 03

  Kinship meaning like like an association or?

• 25:45Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, like it's a cool like.

• 25:46Speaker 03

  I feel a deep admiration for a lot of those people because I think also we're coming up. And actually, Denzel said this in an interview that we did together recently, like we're coming up in the time of social media, which is it's fucking hell for an actor, like in a purely practical sense.

• 26:04Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 26:07Speaker 03

  People know so much more about actors

• 26:10Josh Horowitz?

  Yep.

• 26:10Speaker 03

  Now than they did, and I think any actor be that like Timothy or Austin or Barry or Jesse or certain like all of these actors that I deeply admire.

• 26:25Speaker 03

  We're operating in a totally different world to the way the actors that came up before us came up.

• 26:32Josh Horowitz?

  Yep.

• 26:32Speaker 03

  You know, and I think that's probably true of every generation, but I think there's a very stark.

• 26:36Josh Horowitz?

  This is amazing. The social media part of it has changed. It was like Leo was the last of the wave, it feels like.

• 26:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, that feels like about right. And then there's that kind of middle ground and then.

• 26:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 26:48Josh Horowitz?

  And it's like, for someone your age, it's part of being a human being in a way is to be on social media and to engage with fellow people that age. So it's like, at the same time, it is antithetical to what you do to expose too much of yourself. So it's like.

• 27:04Speaker 03

  It's, but it's also like, I think, I think that's the root of the point that I'm wrestling with at the moment is

• 27:12Speaker 03

  wanting to protect the bits of my life, right? And then not, but then also having to, having, not having to, but your responsibility to.

• 27:21Josh Horowitz?

  It's part of the job.

• 27:21Speaker 03

  To promote a film is to get out and do like a ton of interviews because you're proud of the film.

• 27:28Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 27:28Speaker 03

  And, and you also don't want to sit there and be a boring interviewee, but it's, it's like trying to express that both of those things exist, that it's like.

• 27:37Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 27:38Speaker 03

  It's not that I don't want to be doing interviews, it's that I don't want to be

• 27:45Speaker 03

  overly literate with, with people's understanding of who I am, be that in mannerism, be that in personal life, be that in anything. It's like, there comes a, it's, it's, it's, I wish there was a line in the sand, but it's just, it's not that. Because it has to move depending on the project that you're.

• 28:03Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 28:03Speaker 03

  Promoting, you know?

• 28:04Josh Horowitz?

  So like, yeah, Leo's like on that extreme end and he's allowed to do, to be who he is because he kind of like earned that right, right? Like he doesn't have, he'll do six interviews and call it a day and it's a Leonardo DiCaprio movie. God bless him.

• 28:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 28:16Josh Horowitz?

  You know who does it well? Mr. Ryan Gosling, the guy you love. I feel like he toes the line. He gives just enough.

• 28:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 28:22Josh Horowitz?

  And we still don't know that much about Ryan.

• 28:24Speaker 03

  Totally. But I think that comes with also experience. It's like, I think that we're learning on the job, actors in my generation where it's like, we're, we're, we're learning at a point where there is no reference point for us.

• 28:37Josh Horowitz?

  Yes.

• 28:38Speaker 03

  It's like.

• 28:38Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, you're learning in real time.

• 28:39Speaker 03

  We're learning, we're learning in real time and I've made like loads of learnings that I've made from, from, from doing this where it's like, oh, certain things move the needle, other things don't. And that's great to like.

• 28:53Speaker 03

  It's a shame to have to learn that in real time, but also it's also information is king, I think, in instances like this.

• 29:01Josh Horowitz?

  So you've mentioned to me and others, I mentioned Gosling because you've talked a lot about Blue Valentine. Just the guy's amazing. Have you broken bread with him?

• 29:11Speaker 03

  I haven't. I saw him at the BAFTAs and I sat last year I was with my sister. And Ryan was like, let's say, 10 rows down. He was far away. Let's say he's the guts of like 60 meters away. And we make, we kind of make, we make eye contact and Ryan goes like this, points at me and goes like, hey. And I'm making direct eye contact with him and my sister's here and I was like, now Ryan Gosling is looking at me. He sees me saying that.

• 29:43Josh Horowitz?

  I hope he's not a good lip reader.

• 29:45Speaker 03

  His face goes like, hm? So I seek him out after and I was like, I don't know what the fuck just happened. About like two hours earlier on Apollo, but he was like, you've

• 29:57Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, he's great.

• 29:58Speaker 03

  Absolute gentleman. And like, as you said, I think he's a real model for how to navigate the delicate act of promoting a film and being and trying to be yourself within that. But as you said, we don't know a lot about what's going on.

• 30:15Josh Horowitz?

  And also on the acting side, an amazing actor who can also toggle between, I mean, he came from Indies and also has that ability to turn on that movie star thing when he needs to. It's pretty remarkable. What is the relationship with, so you were obviously nominated for After Sun, the Oscar, which was a big surprise because of just the size of the film. It was not in that world. So what's the relationship with awards? Because then on the flip side, something like All the Strangers, I'm still bitter. Got no love. Our beloved Andrew Scott. What the hell?

• 30:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, no. I think.

• 30:51Speaker 03

  It's a dangerous thing to ever predict what.

• 30:53Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 30:55Speaker 03

  Having said that, I'm not gonna sit here and be like, it was fucking incredibly exciting to be nominated. I think the context as well, like if it was to ever, ever happen again.

• 31:03Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 31:05Speaker 03

  It's very infrequent when you get to like Oscar nominations morning that you're like, you don't already know if it's kind of happened. Whereas with After Son, we were really like, it's a total.

• 31:17Speaker 03

  We'd been nominated for a couple of like ones beforehand, hadn't been nominated further. So we were like, I don't know how many members of the Academy have seen this, or how many even know that the film exists. But I think on a like purely artistic level, what that, what that genre and sort of film means to me is everything. Like that's, that's if everything else, if this whole industry folded on itself and I had to choose what was left.

• 31:44Josh Horowitz?

  Yep.

• 31:45Speaker 03

  That kind of film making style would be what I would choose, hands down. And that's no slight on anything else. That's just exactly, that's, that's a taste, right? So, so for that to be the thing that broke through for me in a kind of Academy context, like if it was ever happen again, that will always be the moment where I'm like, that's pretty damn cool.

• 32:12Josh Horowitz?

  What's your relationship with the ending of All of the Strangers? Because a lot of us that saw it, that was like the movie that like every, that everybody sat through the credits to process what had just happened. And you, I mean, I don't know if you knew Harry's fate when you started to read that script or not.

• 32:28Speaker 03

  I didn't, I didn't, yeah. So when I got to that in the page, I was like.

• 32:33Josh Horowitz?

  It wrecked you just like it did everybody else?

• 32:36Speaker 03

  There's like a couple of instances throughout where I was like, oh, okay. But I think the way that it was written, for anybody who hasn't seen All of the Strangers, I'm sorry, but Harry is dead. Harry doesn't exist after the first time that we meet him.

• 32:50Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 32:51Speaker 03

  But it's not so much just the ending. I think when you're watching.

• 32:57Speaker 03

  Somebody again, in real time, who you love and admire this the way that I love and admire Andrew Scott. It's a really moving experience regardless of the actual story. When you're watching someone

• 33:09Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 33:10Speaker 03

  deliver that kind of performance. And that's where my kind of separation with like awards bodies, it does separate. I'm like, at that point, who fucking care? If you're, if you've delivered that performance,

• 33:21Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 33:21Speaker 03

  that's gonna last.

• 33:22Josh Horowitz?

  Can't take that away.

• 33:22Speaker 03

  That, that, that's forever. That's a forever performance. And of course, you, I wanted that for him more than I wanted anything for any other actor. I was like, please, for the love of God. But, but having said that, that's not that, that, that can never, and I think most actors would agree with this, that's never the thing. It's a really

• 33:45Josh Horowitz?

  It's a nice

• 33:46Speaker 03

  cool

• 33:46Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 33:47Speaker 03

  And incredibly exciting thing to be a part of, but

• 33:52Speaker 03

  you, you, you want the performance to stand the test of time rather than the, the number of awards that you're nominated for or win at the end of the day.

• 34:00Josh Horowitz?

  I also, I think of that ending also just because of the use of a song. And I think it's one of the best uses of a song at the end of the film. Do you have a favorite like song used in a film? Like a, like a moment tied to a piece of music that you can think of? Again, I know, while I'm pressed, this is the kind of questions like, Josh, don't make

• 34:17Speaker 03

  You know, I'm got, because it's in my head, I think what Charlotte did with Under Pressure is

• 34:22Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, yeah, that's great, yeah.

• 34:23Speaker 03

  Because also, I learnt a lot of, about like kind of film making process and that because you were so close to something so small and so mobile that I was like, how they got the rights for a Queen song?

• 34:36Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 34:36Speaker 03

  And then to strip away all the instrumentation and for the estate to agree to it?

• 34:40Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 34:40Speaker 03

  And to get it for the amount of money that they got it for with the, like, I was like, that's a

• 34:47Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 34:47Speaker 03

  feat of producing as well on top of what Charlotte did with it.

• 34:59Speaker 00

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• 36:01Josh Horowitz?

  So we talked before about, again, you're not chasing these kinds of films that you just did, Gladiator. That being said, are there filmmakers that are operating on that scale that you answer the phone very quickly to? Is it the Denis's and the Nolans and...

• 36:15Speaker 03

  Denis, I feel like Denis, like you've named them.

• 36:19Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 36:20Speaker 03

  Sam and people like that, like who do large scale... Like I found the first scene and the second scene to be like a real feat and performance and everything, but like the direction of those films is like so singular and brilliant.

• 36:41Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. His work, yeah, I mean Arrival, I think, still stands as like one of like the greats.

• 36:46Speaker 03

  I love Prisoners.

• 36:47Josh Horowitz?

  They're all great, yeah.

• 36:48Speaker 03

  Prisoners is so good.

• 36:50Josh Horowitz?

  If the internet is to be believed, and when can we not believe the internet? Let's be real, it's true. Did you have conversations that had a tree at any point? Your buddy Pedro is playing Mr. Fantastic. Did you have that conversation with Marvel? It sounds like you were in that conversation.

• 37:07Speaker 03

  No, no, no, that was, that was... No.

• 37:11Josh Horowitz?

  No?

• 37:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 37:12Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 37:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 37:14Josh Horowitz?

  And where are you at with that kind of thing?

• 37:18Speaker 03

  I don't think it's...

• 37:21Speaker 03

  I don't think it's for, it's not for me.

• 37:23Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 37:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, nothing, yeah, I think if, I wasn't brought up watching those films. I wasn't drawn to them in the, like, I was a kind of more like a Lord of the Rings guy in that sense, like, so they weren't films that I was drawn to.

• 37:47Josh Horowitz?

  So you want to be a hobbit, is what you're telling me?

• 37:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, please, put me in the game.

• 37:54Josh Horowitz?

  We were talking before we started, I missed you in Streetcar, but I'm not gonna miss you again because

• 38:00Speaker 03

  Please don't.

• 38:01Josh Horowitz?

  You're coming to New York, I'm very excited about this.

• 38:03Speaker 03

  I can't fucking waste.

• 38:05Josh Horowitz?

  So is it a coincidence, like, you were doing Streetcar right before Gladiator, you're doing it right out of it, this is a nice kind of bookend, this is kind of like

• 38:12Speaker 03

  It's a bookend, but it's like, it's, it's, I just, you don't come across writing like that frequently, and especially like, that character, and the fact that we've done it before, but we haven't brought it to New York, take a play like that into the, like, something felt incomplete to me in the sense that we haven't even, even though it's a very short run in New York, if you're doing a Tennessee Williams, you want to take it into the lines down and see how it fares, and also, I'm, I just love being on stage, and hopefully in the next, the plan would be in the next two years to like dedicate, like, the guts

• 38:56Speaker 03

  will be, to whatever those plays may be, but like to really

• 38:59Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 39:01Speaker 03

  Separate from the kind of cycle of making films, promoting films, I think getting back on stage is like, for a longer period of time, I think would be

• 39:15Speaker 03

  It's high on the list of priorities.

• 39:16Josh Horowitz?

  It is a short run, it's at BAM.

• 39:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, we're doing three weeks in the Noel Carrer in London and then five in BAM.

• 39:22Josh Horowitz?

  Got it. So no, not enough time for the Broadway run or is that something at some point?

• 39:26Speaker 03

  No, I don't think that, yeah, no, no.

• 39:29Josh Horowitz?

  It'll be hot tickets, so put a good word in for me, please.

• 39:31Speaker 03

  Look, we'll sort it, I'll definitely sort you out with that.

• 39:36Josh Horowitz?

  Do you, are you one of those actors that has kind of like the list of roles that you want to do on the stage?

• 39:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, there's a few, hopefully gonna, one of them, I'm definitely not saying.

• 39:49Josh Horowitz?

  Plays, musicals, both?

• 39:50Speaker 03

  Plays at the, I, I both, but the, the plays, it would be plays. There's, there's two kind of floating around that are close to happening.

• 40:01Josh Horowitz?

  It's interesting, like, I think of someone like Stanley, this archetypal masculine role, similarly Lucius on one end of the spectrum as well. And then I think of things like All the Strangers and these romances that you've done, you've done something with Josh O'Connell as well, O'Connell coming up. Is that fascinate you, kind of like exploring all the aspects of masculinity?

• 40:23Speaker 03

  I just mean like, I don't know, like, I think I have a fair idea who I am, but I don't really know who I am fully. So it's like, I don't know if it would be, I don't think it would be, I, I wouldn't find it remotely interesting to kind of operate just in one

• 40:45Speaker 03

  type of man or person, but I think I've seen History of Sound and I'm.

• 40:51Josh Horowitz?

  This is the one with Josh?

• 40:52Speaker 03

  This is the one with Josh.

• 40:52Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 40:53Speaker 03

  And I'm like in love with the film and what Josh and Oliver Herman as our director did with it. It's like, you know, when you make a film and it's exactly what you set out to, or when you, when you fall in love with the screenplay and the screenplay, you know what I mean? When, when the thing is actualized in a way that you want it to.

• 41:12Josh Horowitz?

  Which is, as you well know, is very difficult, never happens.

• 41:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, so, so it kind of alleviates any pressure of like reception, in my head at least, I'm just like, well.

• 41:21Josh Horowitz?

  First stage is done, I satisfied the task.

• 41:24Speaker 03

  That's what we set out, that's what we set out to make as a, as a group of creatives, so it's like.

• 41:29Josh Horowitz?

  Speaking of, are you a producer or is that the first time you've?

• 41:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 41:32Josh Horowitz?

  Is that, I mean, what's that about for you right now, just?

• 41:35Speaker 03

  It's, I mean.

• 41:38Speaker 03

  Myself and Oliver stuck with that for five years to get it made. So like, whatever actors do in a producerial context, like it's a fully grey area. But for me, it was about sticking with it. And also, I think Oliver, or I think between the writer Ben Shadok and Oliver and myself, and Josh, we're the people in the world that know that story the best. So it would be like, but in terms of a practical day to day thing, it was just acting. There was enough on my plate with that.

• 42:14Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. I heard you in another conversation talking about Merrily and how Richard doesn't want you talking about Merrily for the next 20 years. But I do want to ask, because it's a fascinating project, let's be real. Merrily, we roll along, you're shooting this over 15, 20 years with the great Richard Linklater. And by nature of this story, and I love the Broadway, recent Broadway production. So you've shot the ending first, essentially.

• 42:39Speaker 03

  Because of the way that the, yeah, we've shot the, we've shot the ending.

• 42:42Josh Horowitz?

  So what was that like for you as an actor to approach something that you know you're not going to complete for 15, 20 years?

• 42:47Speaker 03

  Oh, I'm not going to see that until it's done. It's a really amazing, like, time capsule.

• 42:54Josh Horowitz?

  What a crazy, once in a lifetime.

• 42:55Speaker 03

  Experience, like, I think, yeah, not to get into it too much, but I think it'll be a really interesting thing on a personal level to like, watch it back in 20 years' time and be like, when we were shooting this, that was what was going on in life. And when we did this, and, God, and then I'll be like, oh, that was just before I was going into Gladiator. So I was like, big or something, I don't know. It'll be, yeah, I think it's, as you said, it's a really special style of filmmaking, and it's with kind of the king of that style in Richard Linklater.

• 43:28Josh Horowitz?

  Unbelievable. And it'll be a constant. It'll be kind of like the closest thing to a day job over the next.

• 43:32Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. He's stuck with me.

• 43:35Josh Horowitz?

  Stuck with each other.

• 43:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly.

• 43:38Josh Horowitz?

  You've got a few other things in the can, I just want to mention. You mentioned Jesse Buckley. One of my favorite podcasts in recent memory was Jesse and Olivia Colman together, which was like 45 minutes of just insanity.

• 43:47Speaker 03

  That makes sense to me.

• 43:49Josh Horowitz?

  You have experience with both.

• 43:53Josh Horowitz?

  And this is Chloe Zhao.

• 43:54Speaker 03

  This is Chloe Zhao, the great Chloe Zhao, yeah.

• 43:57Josh Horowitz?

  You're playing Shakespeare, this is kind of a take on?

• 44:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's Anya's story. It's about, essentially, Anya's is the central character and it's about their marriage and relationship. It's based on a book, so it's not...

• 44:11Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 44:12Speaker 03

  The information and what the project is about is there, but I love those two women with all... Like, they're really... They went to like a really deep, deep, deep place with it. And I haven't seen any of it, but that's another one where I'm like, "I don't really fucking care what anybody thinks about that." Because it was like, and like, it's gonna... I'll be back in that kind of like feeling disingenuous phase next year, I feel like, because... But those two films, in particular,

• 44:48Speaker 03

  took a lot, took a lot out of me.

• 44:50Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 44:51Speaker 03

  You know, they're, they were close to the bone and far away and both processes were like, like really challenging and rewarding, but like rinsed me.

• 45:03Josh Horowitz?

  Is there, is there some kind of fun symmetry? I asked Daisy the same question when she was promoting Twisters. You both kind of like had these crazy opportunities this year, this evolution of your careers. You must have checked in with each other, like, "Hey..."

• 45:18Speaker 03

  I was just in awe, like, having done this part of the job now, I'm in awe of how she navigated that so like... Because like, you look at it from the outside and I was like, "Daisy's making this look easy."

• 45:35Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 45:36Speaker 03

  And

• 45:39Speaker 03

  I can hold my hand up and I'm like, "I don't think..." I'm doing my best, but it's not, I'm not finding this bit is... Not to say that she found it easy, but I like, I think it's in, it's a really...

• 45:53Speaker 03

  Moving thing to see your friend operate at that level, both in terms of performance, but also in terms of the kind of diligent professionalism that is required to be yourself within this. She's just extraordinary.

• 46:11Josh Horowitz?

  I'll wrap up in a second. I know you've been talking a lot. But just, I'm curious, kind of coming full circle. I mean, the pressure now, in a weird way, you know, I was talking about the pressure of doing films like Gladiator. But like, I'm always fascinated by that pivot in a career when you start to get the opportunity to choose. For 99% of actors, it's take whatever the hell that you can have. So are you, because you're right now in such an exciting opportunity for any actor would envy.

• 46:40Josh Horowitz?

  What's the rule of thumb? Do you feel self-imposed pressure to like, kind of like, I need to like, I have some collateral right now. I have some juice.

• 46:46Speaker 03

  No, I mean, like, if I'm being honest, I kind of know what my dance card is for the next two.

• 46:51Josh Horowitz?

  Right, it sounds like you do.

• 46:52Speaker 03

  For the next little while, so.

• 46:57Josh Horowitz?

  That takes the worry of choice out of it.

• 46:59Speaker 03

  But that's always just been the way that I've, like, look, like, I've had dance cards for a certain amount of time and certain things fall away. So it's never really fixed. But I haven't played the game of like, let's make something, see if it sticks, and see what opportunities come my way. It's like I've had a real privilege to be looking at scripts and talking to filmmakers over the last, since normal people, essentially. So I just wish there was more time. I just wish there was more time to find out where I can do all of these things, but.

• 47:35Josh Horowitz?

  You're just getting started. You've got a lot of time ahead. Okay, I'm gonna end with a happy, second few as profoundly random questions for you. Dogs or cats?

• 47:42Speaker 03

  Dogs.

• 47:43Josh Horowitz?

  Dogs, dogs.

• 47:44Speaker 03

  Sorry. Cat people.

• 47:46Josh Horowitz?

  It's okay.

• 47:47Speaker 03

  Not really sorry, I mean.

• 47:48Josh Horowitz?

  I'm a dog person.

• 47:49Speaker 03

  You're a dog person, good, good.

• 47:52Josh Horowitz?

  It's the correct answer. What do you think the only answer? What do you collect, if anything?

• 48:02Speaker 03

  What do I collect? I've started collecting, I've started journaling much more. So like, there's a, that's gonna be

• 48:09Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 48:10Speaker 03

  Something to collect. That's a collector's thing, I think.

• 48:14Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 48:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 48:15Josh Horowitz?

  What's the wallpaper on your phone?

• 48:18Speaker 03

  A picture of friends.

• 48:21Josh Horowitz?

  It's my dog.

• 48:22Speaker 03

  It's your dog, yeah.

• 48:23Josh Horowitz?

  Not my wife, it's my dog. It's the priorities I have in my life. Last actor, actually, this is full circle, last actor you were mistaken for.

• 48:32Speaker 03

  Last actor I was mistaken for? Why is this for?

• 48:35Josh Horowitz?

  Because we talked earlier, yeah.

• 48:37Speaker 03

  Fuck. What was the last actor?

• 48:40Josh Horowitz?

  Someone show you a headshot, say, oh, sign this, that's not me.

• 48:43Speaker 03

  No, I haven't had...

• 48:47Speaker 03

  I don't think I have had.

• 48:49Josh Horowitz?

  This is, you're a unicorn, there's only one Paul Mescal.

• 48:51Speaker 03

  Or if I do, I just, my brain's not working. Probably the latter.

• 48:56Josh Horowitz?

  Let's go with the former.

• 48:57Speaker 03

  Richard Harris.

• 48:59Josh Horowitz?

  Richard Harris?

• 49:00Speaker 03

  Or Ridley says that I look like Richard Harris. So I haven't been mistaken for him, it's just Ridley thinks that I look like him. So it's a different question.

• 49:09Josh Horowitz?

  No, but I get it, I'll accept it. Worst note a director has ever given you?

• 49:18Speaker 03

  Worst note? I've been really lucky with the directors.

• 49:22Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, I was gonna...

• 49:22Speaker 03

  Oh, I had a director say, take...

• 49:26Speaker 03

  Fucking terrible note.

• 49:29Speaker 03

  He told me to take, I wasn't wearing a suit, and he was like, take your suit off. And I was like, what do you mean? He's like, take it off, whatever you're wearing, take it off. Like, not literally.

• 49:37Josh Horowitz?

  Metaphorically.

• 49:38Speaker 03

  Metaphorically, and I was like... What's it like? Shut up. Shut up. Although, having said that, that was a really big moment for me. In, like, I was like, oh, I get now that sometimes you have to be...

• 49:54Josh Horowitz?

  A big moment in that, you've talked about it.

• 49:55Speaker 03

  Big moment in that, like, it changed. I'm incredibly great, because there was no malice in the note. It was more so that I was like, oh, I've gotta take more agency with...

• 50:07Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 50:08Speaker 03

  If I don't fucking like something, it's okay, because it's not personal.

• 50:12Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 50:12Speaker 03

  I'm just like, that's a...

• 50:13Josh Horowitz?

  This is a dialogue back and forth, you're not just taking... Yeah, yeah, okay. And in the spirit of happy second few, it's an actor that always makes you happy. You see them on screen, you're happy.

• 50:25Speaker 05

  Happy.

• 50:27Josh Horowitz?

  Go to your happy place, Paul.

• 50:28Speaker 05

  Go to my happy place.

• 50:31Speaker 03

  Tom Hanks makes me happy when I see him on screen.

• 50:33Josh Horowitz?

  Love it.

• 50:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 50:33Josh Horowitz?

  What's your top Hanks? What's... Are you a Turner and Hooch man? Are you a...

• 50:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, Turner and Hooch.

• 50:46Speaker 03

  What do I see... No, do you know what I'm actually gonna say? I love Tom Hanks, but you know who makes me happy in a perverse way? Is whenever I see Anthony Hopkins on the screen. I'm just like...

• 50:57Josh Horowitz?

  Dialed in, perfection.

• 50:59Speaker 03

  This is perfection. This is perfection. I think he's... I think he's just the best actor.

• 51:06Josh Horowitz?

  Let's make that happen.

• 51:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, please.

• 51:08Josh Horowitz?

  Please. Movie that makes you sad? I think I know the answer here.

• 51:12Speaker 03

  The Valentine makes me sad.

• 51:14Josh Horowitz?

  And finally, a food that makes you confused, Paul?

• 51:18Josh Horowitz?

  You don't get it?

• 51:18Speaker 03

  Olives.

• 51:20Josh Horowitz?

  I hate olives too.

• 51:21Speaker 03

  It's not that... It doesn't actually make me confused. I'm very clear in my hatred of them.

• 51:26Josh Horowitz?

  No dirty martinis for you.

• 51:28Speaker 03

  Martinis are confusing to me. They taste like paint stripper.

• 51:32Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 51:33Speaker 03

  With olives on top, I'm like, what are we...

• 51:35Josh Horowitz?

  Madness.

• 51:35Speaker 03

  Absolute madness. So olives and martinis.

• 51:38Josh Horowitz?

  What's the drink of choice?

• 51:41Speaker 03

  At the moment, it's a... It's like a mezcal margarita on the sweet side. Do you know Tommy's style?

• 51:47Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, yes. I think I do. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 51:49Speaker 03

  A lot of Americans... Even though I think it's an American-style martini.

• 51:52Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 51:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, a sweet mezcal margarita.

• 51:56Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 51:56Speaker 03

  No salt.

• 51:57Josh Horowitz?

  Very specific.

• 51:58Speaker 03

  Yeah. It's way less sophisticated than a martini. It's like, can I get a martini? I'll be like, can I get a really sweet cocktail with no salt?

• 52:10Josh Horowitz?

  Paul and I are gonna get some sweet margaritas after this. Congratulations, man. Thank you for making the time on this crazy run. I appreciate you.

• 52:17Speaker 03

  Thank you, thank you.

• 52:17Josh Horowitz?

  And I'll see you in Brooklyn.

• 52:19Speaker 03

  See you in Brooklyn.

• 52:20Josh Horowitz?

  All right. Thanks, buddy.

• 52:21Speaker 03

  Thanks, bud.

• 52:42Speaker 00

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