ON FINDING LOVE AT ANY AGE… With Luke Evans and Dolly Alderton

We’re taught that love should happen early, and if it doesn’t, something’s gone wrong. But what if that’s not true? In this episode, we hear from past How to Fail guests who found love later, or in their own time. Luke Evans reflects on meeting his soulmate in his forties and Dolly Alderton talks about heartbreak, celibacy to reassess the role of sex and romance in her life and learning that sitting with uncertainty can be the bravest choice. I met my husband in my late thirties and I've found that trusting your own timing is often what leads to real love. I hope this is helpful for those unsure of what’s next. Listen to Luke Evan’s full episode of How to Fail here: swap.fm/l/2AAJhVeDNGdKIJGdznR9 Listen to Dolly Alderton’s full episode of How to Fail here: swap.fm/l/XM98joc3GFEMTsLfkEfR 🔗 LINKS + MENTIONS: Elizabeth’s Substack: theelizabethday.substack.com Join the How To Fail community: howtofail.supportingcast.fm/#content 💌 LOVE THIS EPISODE? Subscribe on Spotify, Apple or wherever you get your podcasts Leave a 5⭐ review – it helps more people discover these stories 👋 Follow How To Fail & Elizabeth: Instagram: @howtofailpod @elizabday TikTok: @howtofailpod @elizabday Website: www.elizabethday.org Have a failure you’re trying to work through for Elizabeth to discuss? Click here to get in touch: howtofailpod.com How to Fail is an Elizabeth Day and Sony Music Entertainment Production. Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts To bring your brand to life in this podcast, email [email protected] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Elizabeth Day?

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• 0:40Elizabeth Day?

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• 1:02Speaker 01

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• 1:31Elizabeth Day?

  We grew up with the idea that love is something we should find early, decisively, and without too many missteps, preferably when you're in your twenties, that finding the one, and I put that in quotation marks, is not only a romantic ideal, but a marker of success. And so if it hasn't happened by a certain age, we're led to believe that something's gone wrong. Well, in this episode, we listen back to how to fail guests who've either found love later in life or in its own time. And I firmly believe that it will happen when the time is right for you. And as many of you will know, I met my now husband when I was 39. Past hard fail guest Luke Evans reflects on finding his soulmate in his 40s and how

• 2:13Elizabeth Day?

  many of life's milestones arrived later than expected. But spoiler alert, they were worth the wait. Then Dolly Alderton takes us back to her early adulthood, reflecting with her trademark honesty and humour on failed relationships and painful experiences with men. She speaks about choosing deliberate celibacy to reassess the role of sex and romance in her life, and she learns that stepping back and sitting with uncertainty can be the bravest choice. I've definitely found that trusting your own timing is often what leads to real love, and I hope this is helpful for those unsure of what's next. First up, let's hear from Luke.

• 2:55Elizabeth Day?

  Your first failure is your failure to find your soulmate until you were in your 40s.

• 3:01Speaker 03

  Yeah. And firstly, I need to just say before we talk about that, is that I'm not saying all the relationships before the person I've met, who is my soulmate, were a complete disaster. Some of them were absolute car crashes, and I think we can all relate to that. And they don't need speaking about. But there are some that I learnt things from, but as the relationship unfolded, we weren't compatible. It just realised that it wasn't going to work. And, you know, painfully or graciously, they came to a conclusion and we finished. Some of those people are still in my life, and some of them are very, very close to me. And one of them is my best friend from 20 years ago. We were partners for three years. We own a house together. I mean, it's really odd. But anyway, we're friends.

• 3:45Speaker 03

  But it's a little sad, I feel like, getting to 40. I sometimes think, well, wouldn't it have been great to have gone through the whole journey with someone? But this is me being idealistic. And, you know, of course, that's not how it is. And maybe what I've learnt from these relationships.

• 4:02Speaker 03

  And being alone and all those things and I've learnt so much that I can bring so much more to a relationship now. I'm a very different person from ten years ago. Really different, which is weird. I can see that now. I value this relationship so much and I value this person so much. Fran, let's give him his name. We've been together almost four years and it literally has gone like that. It felt like we met yesterday. It's it's just seamlessly just gradually growing and morphing into something bigger and stronger and happy. It's always happy, it's positive, it's easy, which I say, I

• 4:47Speaker 03

  don't say that flippantly, easy is not a, it's a hard thing to find in a relationship. I don't think I've ever had an easy relationship, but I have it now. And as much as it's sad that we didn't meet earlier on, I'm so grateful that in my forties, I have met this person that just completely, it just top and tails my life. I feel like it's, it's my travelling partner, my business partner, we giggle together, we go to the gym together, we're also fine apart, we've just spent a month apart, you know, we're good, we're really good. There's

• 5:28Speaker 03

  a strength, there's a confidence I have because of him. It's just lovely.

• 5:35Elizabeth Day?

  I wanted to ask you about your journey with your sexuality. Because of the way that you grew up and the internal shame that you felt at the idea that you would have to tell your parents and they would be told by church elders never to speak to you again. That is a crushing weight for a young boy to live with.

• 5:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 6:00Elizabeth Day?

  Do you think that informed, I mean, it sort of delayed your progression into relationships?

• 6:08Speaker 03

  I mean, it delayed me coming out. I couldn't, I just had to keep it secret. I had no one to tell. I had no non-Jehovah's Witness friends. So.

• 6:22Speaker 03

  I kept it to myself the whole, my whole childhood. Um, it was only when I left home. And I didn't leave home because I wanted to. I left home because I needed to, because I couldn't lie to them anymore and I had to find my, I had to be who I knew I was. And I couldn't do that under my mum and dad's roof. Out of respect for them and their religion, but also out of respect for myself. I knew that I had to find a new life. And I knew it was just on a forty five minute train journey to another city. I'd find new people. But at sixteen, that is a very young age to have to make that decision to go alone, to do it alone. I had no brothers and sisters, no one knew.

• 7:06Speaker 03

  And I thought that was the best way, I'll just start again. And that's what I did. I'd had that planned from the age of twelve, um, because I knew that legally I could leave home at sixteen. And so I just went, well, you've just got to suck it up for the next four years and get through it and then leave. And I did exactly what I planned. When I talk to my friends and they says, when, what time, when did you leave home? And I say sixteen, they're like, sixteen? It's like children, like a child, you know? And I guess I was, but I I just knew that I couldn't carry on there being with these feelings and knowing that it wasn't going to change. You know, this person, I'm, I'm not going to change.

• 7:51Speaker 03

  And, um, and I knew very little other than that.

• 7:57Elizabeth Day?

  What comes across so strongly is how much you love your parents.

• 8:01Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, I mean, they're just, they're amazing people. And I, and it's so, and I'm so glad that I feel like this. I know a lot of people who have been in my position or similar, very angry. And it's totally understandable and I see that, you know. You know, to be put through this is wrong. You know, religion shouldn't force you to have to make a decision between being your true self and losing your family and everyone around you. But I'm okay with it because I love my mum and dad. My upbringing was joyous. They are great human beings, very patient. I was a bastard as a kid. I was a nightmare, like a teenager. Imagine, I was in the closet, not was in the closet, I was screaming every

• 8:43Speaker 03

  night because I couldn't tell anyone. I was going through the hormonal changes as a pubescent teenager. I didn't want to be in the religion. I hated knocking doors. I, everything about my life was wrong and I was just miserable. I was so miserable with my mum and dad and they were so patient. They were so young. They dealt with it all. Their only child leaves home at sixteen. And did they, they didn't turn their back on me. Of course, they didn't know at that point, but I was moving away from the religion and even that meant that I was possibly going to die at Armageddon. I hadn't put the icing on the cherry on the icing of the cake by that point, but you know, it was a big thing for them to lose me, you know, I didn't go to the Kingdom Hall, I didn't knock doors, I wanted

• 9:24Speaker 03

  nothing to do with it. I wanted to start my new life. And they've just been so kind and accepting, even though they have their religion, we have managed to find a balance where we both can respect each other and our choices and our lives and our journeys. They're different, but they can work parallel with each other.

• 9:44Elizabeth Day?

  I mean, it is an amazing achievement that really for all three of you. There's an incident in the book where your parents discover a stash of gay literature porn that you'd hidden in the lining of an armchair.

• 9:59Speaker 03

  Just like this, like there's a chair.

• 10:01Elizabeth Day?

  Well, what you don't know, Luke, is that before you arrived today, we stuffed it full. But tell us that story.

• 10:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, so I had, um, my mum would go to Cardiff often on the weekend and so I'd go on the train with her and she loves shopping. I hate shopping, always have. And so I'd drop her off at Howells's, which is the department store or Debenhams or Primark or whatever. I'd just go wandering and I'd look around the bookshops and I'd found I found this one little bookshop in this little arcade in Cardiff and it was called Chapter and Verse and um I'd never just found it. I'd never seen it before, so I walked in and I said hello to the shopkeeper and then I started looking around the books. And in one corner was the LGBT section.

• 10:51Speaker 03

  And I didn't really realise straight away, but as I pulled a book down, I realised it was Maurice, the famous gay novel, and then a book about safe sex and then a book about, oh, so many different books. I mean, and it was like, I kept looking over my shoulder, thinking he was gonna come and tell me off, but of course it's gay literature. He was, I I I think he was a gay guy himself. That was the moment I had an outlet where I could learn just about that I wasn't on my own. There was even a romantic novel about gay gay men. So I started to build up every week. I'd come to Cardiff with my mum, she'd go to Debenhams and I'd go and spend my pocket money that I'd saved

• 11:36Speaker 03

  or that from my little jobs I used to have in the valleys. And I'd buy books and and and I'd just built up a collection of different things, uh different books. Some of them were photographic, uh Tom Bianchi and Tom of Finland, no, lots of different books. And I used to hide it in a quick save carrier bag in the lining of a chair that was my old moment, my old sofa that my mum and dad had. They'd bought a new one and I took the armchair. And I was the only one that knew it was there and one day I went to look for it and it had gone. And uh my whole life flashed before my eyes in that very moment. I put the cushion back on the chair and I sat on it. My whole body was shaking because this was the moment I was dreading.

• 12:21Speaker 03

  I was like, you're so stupid, you shouldn't have put it there, because I knew the only two people that would have looked was my mum and dad. And so I had to confront my mum and dad about it. I packed a case upstairs, thirteen years old, fourteen years old, um, thinking that after the conversation I will have to have, that they will tell me to leave. Because that's what I would have been brought up to know. I knew other families in our area, our district, where their son had been thrown out, and they'd never spoken to him again. But I was ready. I was like, okay, I clearly had processed what ifs before this moment, and I knew that this is what would happen. So I went and confronted my mum and dad about it. And they'd found it months before,

• 13:04Speaker 03

  and they hadn't told me, which made me feel even worse. And I said, where is it? And she finally said, well, your father took it into the garden, lit a bonfire, and burnt it page by page. And we don't want to talk about it again. Which is a very common thing for parents, often, maybe not so much nowadays, but, you know, if you don't talk about it, it may go away. Um, also, for us to talk about it, there was this huge thing that would happen if we accepted it, acknowledged it, it would mean some serious shit would go down. And none of us wanted that. Although I was thought that was the end. I thought I would be on a train to Cardiff, sleeping on a park bench, literally, that's what I

• 13:46Speaker 03

  thought. But it didn't happen. Um, we didn't talk about it for many years later. And it made it even more frustrating. I probably got even more angry at that point, you know.

• 13:55Elizabeth Day?

  Yeah, it's a lot of internal tension for a young man to deal with. As you mentioned, you do go to Cardiff, you start being coached in singing by a fantastic singing coach, Louise. You met Charlotte Church on a doorstep, you became very good friends with Charlotte Church. You got into a relationship with an older man who was your boss in a, was it a call centre?

• 14:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 14:15Elizabeth Day?

  Um, who was very nice to you, but you were saying to your parents, oh, he's a friend and a nice landlord. And then at some stage, it does get to a point where you get very, very low and you have to tell your mum about your true self.

• 14:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 14:33Elizabeth Day?

  And I want to preface this by asking how you feel about the terminology around coming out, whether you think that that's an accurate phrase or whether, because I know some people find it borderline offensive to imply that there's anything they need to come out about.

• 14:47Speaker 03

  I mean, I'm not offended by it. I mean, it's, it's, but it's sad that, you know, gay people have to do that. And it usually comes with massive anxiety, upset, hears the thought of losing people, not being accepted, being rejected. I would rather have not to have had to have done it, for sure.

• 15:07Elizabeth Day?

  And how old were you when you told your mum?

• 15:10Speaker 03

  I was nineteen.

• 15:11Elizabeth Day?

  She reacted in a way that seems typical of her, which was very loving.

• 15:17Speaker 03

  Hmm. She had to force it out of me, but she knew I was upset and she didn't know why. And I, I just said, well, remember by this point, I'd been living a happy life, gay life in London for three years. So I was coming home with some kind of strength of identity, but in a very broken way. Cause I, I was, I'd just broken up from my first relationship and I had nowhere to go. I'd moved out and, you know. So I said, if I'm going to tell you, I'm going to tell you everything. I'm not going to hold back. And a lot of it, you're probably not going to like to hear. And she said, well, I'm your mother. You need to tell me because it's upsetting to see you like this. So I just let it roll. Two, three hours, we went for a walk. We sat on the swings in the park

• 15:59Speaker 03

  at the bottom of the street. Oof, the sun went down. We processed as much as she could process. And, um, and then we went back to the house and she said, let's not tell dad yet. I think I need to process this first. She's so clever. She knew exactly how to manage the situation and she did. I wasn't a Jehovah's Witness really, you know, no one knew me as a Jehovah's Witness. But, you know, it's a big thing. It was a lot for her to deal with, but yeah, she managed it.

• 16:32Elizabeth Day?

  One of the things I hear a lot from listeners is how tiring it can be when your mind just doesn't settle. And I can only imagine this feels even heavier with intrusive thoughts. It's that quiet sense of being worn down by something you never asked for and never wanted, but just can't seem to switch off. If you struggle with this, I want to tell you about NoCD, because it's a resource that genuinely helps people. NoCD provides specialised treatment for OCD. And what I appreciate about their approach is how human it feels. You're matched with a licensed therapist trained in ERP therapy. That's Exposure and Response Prevention. And over time, you learn skills that help your OCD symptoms become manageable, so you can live more of the life you want to

• 17:17Elizabeth Day?

  live. If you're struggling with OCD or unrelenting intrusive thoughts, NoCD can help. Book a free 15-minute call to get started at learn.nocd.com/fail. Autumn's here, soup season is back, and my kitchen is suddenly working overtime. Quick dinners after a manic day recording, and I'm enjoying spending a bit more time at home as the days are getting shorter. The thing that's made all of that easier is Hexclad. I am genuinely obsessed with these pans. They heat evenly, nothing sticks, and the cleanup doesn't turn into just another job at the end of the night. Hexclad combines the searing power of stainless steel with the convenience of non-stick, so you get

• 18:00Elizabeth Day?

  proper performance without the usual faff. They're dishwasher safe, love that, oven safe up to 480 degrees Celsius, and the stay-cool handles mean you're not grabbing a scorching pan mid-cook. Hexclad is an at-home lifesaver. Start the new season with cookware that actually works as hard as you do. For a limited time, our listeners get 15% off with our exclusive link, hexclad.co.uk/fail. That's hexclad.co.uk/fail. Offer excludes bundles and items already on sale. I think what's really lovely about this conversation is that you are very known,

• 18:41Elizabeth Day?

  rightly so, for being a beautiful chronicler of relationships and failures at relationships. And yet, we haven't talked about that yet. And I love that, because I just think you've had such insight into other aspects of your life and what that has taught you. But we are going to come on to... The big, the grand finale.

• 18:59Speaker 04

  The grand finale.

• 19:01Elizabeth Day?

  No pressure, but some pressure, no. But we, we were talking earlier about that notion that because we're both writers, we like to tell each other narratives.

• 19:11Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 19:11Elizabeth Day?

  In other parts of our life, which I think is such a perceptive thing to say. And you were saying that you, you felt it in your romantic attachments.

• 19:20Speaker 04

  Yes, the recent failure that I'm going to discuss, my third one, is incredibly recent, as Elizabeth knows, because the day of the last failure that I'm going to refer to, she very kindly took me out for rosé and I cried into it.

• 19:33Elizabeth Day?

  I mean, it was only, it was only three bottles of rosé followed by some vodka shots. And Dolly got accosted by fans at this pub that we were at, so she was in the midst of this really emotionally rending conversation. With tears in your eyes, and then these three lovely women came up and were like, are you Dolly Alderton? Immediately, Dolly has to sort of press the tears back in, go, yes, I am, yes, I am.

• 19:56Speaker 04

  And the worst, the worst bit was, I was crying to you about this big failure in romance. And these girls said this, it couldn't have been more ironic, really, they were like, you've just taught us that it's really great to be on your own.

• 20:09Elizabeth Day?

  I was like, that's really good for you, I'm really pleased. Well done for finding self-respect and autonomy, I hope I can find it one day.

• 20:17Speaker 04

  Yeah, so I have had a bit of a rocky time with dating in my twenties, a lot of which I take full responsibility for. I went into therapy when I was twenty seven, and a lot of the work that we did was about how I can break out of bad habits and how I can find kind of true intimacy with someone, how I can be a better partner, how I can choose a better partner, how I can be more honest with men, how I can be more vulnerable and open and soft and ready to be loved and love. I think we made great progress in that room, and I think that cognitively, I made great progress.

• 20:56Speaker 04

  I had a long period of deliberate celibacy to reassess the role that sex and romance had had in my life. I read a lot of great books and I did a lot of soul searching, I did a lot of thinking and I talked to a lot of exes and everything was great. This is a very recent work, this has been work I've done over the last two years. In my world of narratives, the script that I had written is, I have come to this conclusion about what kind of partner I would like to meet and what kind of partner I'd like to be. I'm in a really healthy place now with how I feel about men and sex and love. The next person that I meet in the story of my life is gonna be wonderful.

• 21:40Speaker 04

  And he may not be Mister Forever, but he'll probably be a lovely relationship. But there's a high chance that this could be my person because I'm here, I'm ready. Here I am, world, throw me the man. And the only two men that I've had brief liaisons with since I've done all that work have been absolute rotters. And I have given over my heart to them in some small way with trust because that's where I am. The fact is actually they're not, I don't think they were rotters. I think that life is difficult and complicated and everyone has their own baggage and stuff that they're dealing with. But in both those instances, I ended up feeling like massive collateral damage and feeling

• 22:24Speaker 04

  in the disaster that was there, stuff going on with them. And I felt so sad because I just felt like, well, I've done all this work and I've been on this journey and I'm ready to be this person and meet a person that can meet me at that same place and be grown up and be kind to each other and be honest and be trusting. And the way both men behaved was almost identical, actually, just knocked me for six. And I think the reason it's really important that that happened to me, I actually would go as far as to say, the hippie dippy in me would go as far as to say, those two men were sent to me as a present from the universe because I think it was the universe saying to me.

• 23:06Speaker 04

  You cannot script life, you cannot control life. And that you may decide that this is the narrative that most suits you now, but you can't control that. And actually, Ariel Levy, who's a writer that I love, who had an enormous amount of tragedy in a very short space of time and wrote a book about it called The Rules Do Not Apply. She said that the lesson that she learnt from that experience and the lesson she hopes is embedded in the book is that you can control and analyse and argue stuff on a page. That's what you and I do for a living and have that awareness and have that understanding of people, have that understanding of yourself. But you cannot do it in real life.

• 23:47Speaker 04

  All you can do is you can understand yourself as best as possible and you can behave as best as possible. Generally, but particularly I'm talking about love. But you can't control what the other person's gonna do. You can make as good a decisions as you can and you can either choose to trust people or not. And then the rest of it, you just have to relinquish control. That's been a good lesson for me in the last few months in particular.

• 24:14Elizabeth Day?

  Because I think the key for me, and I don't know if it's the same for you, is that when I'm rejected romantically is not to think, oh, what can I do differently to change that person's mind? Because it's a failing in me and it's a failing in my people pleasing tendencies.

• 24:29Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 24:29Elizabeth Day?

  I cannot have someone make this decision about not wanting to see me anymore.

• 24:34Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 24:34Elizabeth Day?

  That's, that makes me feel like a failure as a person.

• 24:37Speaker 04

  Totally.

• 24:38Elizabeth Day?

  And it actually makes me feel panicked. That's what I identify. It's like panic and fear. How do you step away from that really? How can a human being handle that?

• 24:47Speaker 04

  I think, you know, something that I found really difficult in the most recent heartbreak that I fell foul of. Something I found difficult is because I've decided in my head, because like you, I'm a sort of secret control freak. Because I've decided in my head, this is how I would like to be treated as a human. And this is the code of conduct for me in romance now with all the kind of thinking I've done about this. I got really angry that there isn't this advisory board, like there isn't an adjudication. I was so upset and angry, it felt so unfair, that I was just like, how can you treat me like this? I wish there was like a guild of people that could be like, by the way, Dolly is right in this and you have been bad. And this is your punishment.

• 25:31Elizabeth Day?

  Yeah.

• 25:31Speaker 04

  And that like lack of order and control, basically it's control, I found really, really upsetting, like, no. You have got this wrong and I'm the one getting this right and I've done all this work and thinking. And you should be punished for that. It wasn't even like punishment, I just felt like.

• 25:47Elizabeth Day?

  Redress.

• 25:48Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's it, that's it, because I felt like I was going mad. And actually, this is only very recent for me, thinking about how one should behave when thinking of other people's hearts. For a long time, I was not respectful in romance and love. And I didn't think about other people and I was very selfish or I lied. I wasn't a bad person. I was just carrying a lot of unaddressed things and a lot of the time I was in a lot of pain. So the only way that I can make my peace with it and not obsess over what have I done to fail? Or indeed, how can I have an advisory body tick that person off?

• 26:29Speaker 04

  Is to just accept that we're all coming from our own stories and context. And the nicest thing that that last man did is the last time we saw each other and I said. Hi, how can you do this to me? Is he said, I want you to know that the way I've behaved is literally nothing to do with you. This is nothing to do with you. There's nothing that you've said, there's nothing that you've done. There was not a moment that changed anything. I am in a world of pain and mess and I'm just not really thinking about you. This isn't really anything to do with you, this is to do with me, I'm thinking about myself all the time, I'm not thinking about you at all. You're almost irrelevant in this equation, this is about me.

• 27:09Speaker 04

  Which is hard to hear, but it was such an illuminating moment of like, oh yeah, this is all about them. This is not a failure of mine. And it's such a torturous game to look back on things and work out. Was it this or was it that? Was it when I said this? Was it when I did that? And I think if you behave with kindness and you're generally honest, that's the best you can do. And look, what other option do I have now? I have two options, either I. Pick myself up and I carry on believing in love and making careful decisions, but being honest and kind and trusting people when I feel I should trust them, or I just don't have a romantic life. So, you know, those are your two choices, I think, relinquishing control and saying,

• 27:52Speaker 04

  it doesn't matter how much Google stalking I do of them, it doesn't matter how pretty I look on the date, it doesn't matter how perfect a girlfriend I try and be. I can only do so much to control the situation and actually I have to surrender to the unknown of what could happen and the variables of another human. They're not a part in my film that I've scripted. They're in their own film as well. They they come with a whole long history. That means they're unreliable. That means that they, that no matter how much I analyse and think and no matter how I present myself, I can't control how they behave.

• 28:29Elizabeth Day?

  I think that's such a beautiful thing to say because actually love ultimately is about opening yourself up

• 28:37Speaker 04

  Mm.

• 28:38Elizabeth Day?

  to the possibility of failure and the possibility of hurt and because you can't love unless you're fully vulnerable.

• 28:44Speaker 04

  Totally.

• 28:45Elizabeth Day?

  And that's so scary.

• 28:47Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 28:48Elizabeth Day?

  But also

• 28:48Speaker 04

  What do you do? What do you do? Have a life of no life? You know, I see the appeal of it. I've got to say the easiest time of my life was the year where I wasn't dating. But, you know, I believe in love and

• 29:01Speaker 04

  what do I do? Pick myself up and carry on.

• 29:04Elizabeth Day?

  Yeah. Well, the alternative, as you say, is like shutting yourself down, not just to love, but to life.

• 29:09Speaker 04

  Exactly.

• 29:09Elizabeth Day?

  And you're never gonna do that because you are Dolly Alderton.

• 29:14Speaker 04

  There she is, my life coach again.