Richard Rankin

Richard Rankin is no stranger to Josh but usually it's part of his OUTLANDER group. Now he's finally front and center just as he is in his new series, REBUS! Richard and Josh chat about REBUS, the end of OUTLANDER, and decide once and for all who Sam Heughan loves more. SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS! BetterHelp -- Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠BetterHelp.com/HSC ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠for 10% off UPCOMING LIVE EVENTS 12/3 -- John David Washington at 92Y in NY -- ⁠Tickets here⁠ 12/19 -- Ben Schwartz at 92Y in NY -- ⁠Tickets here Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Happy Sad Confused patreon here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! We've got discount codes to live events, merch, early access, exclusive episodes, video versions of the podcast, and more! To watch episodes of Happy Sad Confused, subscribe to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Josh's youtube channel here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Josh Horowitz?

  Should we do a Sam Hearn challenge? How about you and I text him at the same time and see who he responds to first?

• 0:05Speaker 01

  It's a great idea.

• 0:06Josh Horowitz?

  Should we do it?

• 0:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 0:08Speaker 02

  Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, Sad, Confused begins now.

• 0:16Josh Horowitz?

  I'm Josh Horowitz and today on Happy, Sad, Confused, Richard Rankin is here. No Sam, no Katrina, no Sophie. Finally, I've got them all to myself. My master plan has finally come true. The new batch of Outlander episodes is upon us as well as Richard's new series, Rebus. There is a ton to talk about. Finally, center stage where he belongs. It's Richard Rankin. How are you, man?

• 0:39Speaker 01

  Well, thank you so much. What an intro, Josh. I was going to lead with that, actually. I was going to lead with the fact that finally I've got you to myself.

• 0:47Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 0:47Speaker 01

  As much as I love my co-stars, this has been the plan. This has been the game plan all along. It's like, how do I get that position in my career where I can have Josh Horowitz to myself?

• 0:57Josh Horowitz?

  You've truly made it.

• 0:59Speaker 01

  This is when you know. This is when you know, right? This is the gate.

• 1:04Josh Horowitz?

  This is it. This is, this is, every actor knows they've made it when they get on Happy, Sad, Confused by themselves. No, it, look, the last time I saw you, of course, yes, you were, you were flanked by your buddies. We actually haven't run our, our game shenanigans yet, but that's to come.

• 1:18Speaker 01

  You haven't?

• 1:19Josh Horowitz?

  No.

• 1:21Speaker 01

  It's good fun.

• 1:22Josh Horowitz?

  I'm surprised you came back after that. I feel like we were, I was roasting you a little bit, but you always come back for more.

• 1:29Speaker 01

  Right. It's, it's all fun. It's all fun.

• 1:33Josh Horowitz?

  So you were in, you were about to do the Comic Con stuff. What is that like for you at this point? Are you, is there safety in numbers? Because that stuff is intimidating from my perspective, hosting that stuff. I can imagine being on a stage. There's a lot of love in the air, but it's also, I don't know, it's just a lot. Is it, is it comfort? Is it comfortable at this point in your career to do that kind of thing?

• 1:54Speaker 01

  I love it.

• 1:55Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 1:55Speaker 01

  I genuinely love it. And yeah, there's safety in numbers in terms of, I think, having your your peers, your co-stars around. But at the same time, sometimes it's nice to be, you know, running, running solo. Interviews, I think, can be a bit more fun when you're doing a bit of that. There's obviously, there's a lot of press around that, right? You're usually on when you're doing something like New York Comic Con or San Diego Comic Con, as you know, because you're there pretty much all the time yourself. But there's a large amount of press and having people to bounce off of and have a laugh with. And you know that I'm prone to having a bit of a laugh myself. It's, you can have a good time, right? And I am actually, you know, I'm a massive geek myself anyway. So I just geek out at Comic Cons. I had a great time at New York Comic Con.

• 2:37Speaker 01

  Me and John Bell from the show from Outlander, any opportunity that we had that they could take, we were on that floor, running around, just, but we only ever had like, we only ever had windows of like five minutes, 10 minutes. So we really tried to take everything in as quickly as we could before running back to where we had to be. But no, I enjoy it. And it's great, you know, having, we were on the Outlander panel at New York Comic Con, we more than felt their largest base for, yeah. So I think that's, it's good to have that sort of, that sort of kind of tangible feedback where you can actually see and interact with those people that support

• 3:20Speaker 01

  the shows that keep you going. And it kind of, you can kind of get a gauge of, of, of where you are and how much people are still invested in the work that you do. Yeah, it's great.

• 3:33Josh Horowitz?

  I've certainly been in those rooms where it's not necessarily full. So it's, you never know. And, and the sustained enthusiasm is remarkable. It's, it's crazy.

• 3:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:43Josh Horowitz?

  Before we get into your solo career, should we do a Sam Hewin challenge? How about you and I text him at the same time and see who he responds to first?

• 3:50Speaker 01

  It's a great idea.

• 3:51Josh Horowitz?

  Shall we do it?

• 3:52Speaker 01

  Yeah. All right. I did this the other day with a mutual friend where we sent code. So we each sent a line of a sentence and he had to work out what the hell we were talking about. But he's not going to put us together. He's going to say, what is going on?

• 4:05Josh Horowitz?

  Here's the question.

• 4:06Speaker 01

  What's the format?

• 4:07Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. Well, yeah. Should, should we, should we do the same thing? I mean, we could do something where we both say, do you miss me? And just dot, dot, dot. Let's do that. You want to do that at the same time?

• 4:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, okay.

• 4:19Josh Horowitz?

  Hold on, we have to do it simultaneously.

• 4:21Speaker 01

  Is there any like distinguishing character here with putting in some kind of emoji? Put in a fan. He loves a fan on set. Literally put in a fan emoji.

• 4:31Josh Horowitz?

  I'm gonna do that. I got it. Alright, I'm gonna hit send at the same time. You ready? Three, two, one, we'll do it then? Okay, three, two, one. Alright. Pressure's on. Sam Heughan finally proved who you love more.

• 4:47Speaker 01

  I bet you it's huge. Although he's messaged me, he's actually just messaged me and I haven't yet replied to it, so I won't show you what it says.

• 4:54Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, we get it, we get it. Okay, okay. So, um, before, we'll, we'll keep an eye on that, but I want to talk about another mutual. I recently had on the podcast, as you know, Jack Laddon. And you came up, and I'm curious, let's, let's, let's talk a little, little bit about the crew of actors you came up with. Was he, was he part of that kind of gang of young men that you kind of associate your early days of acting with?

• 5:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, very much so. And, and it's because that was a very much an informative part of my career doing that play Black Watch. It was kind of, it was a big turning point for me for, for a number of reasons. It was a huge experience for one, being on stage and spending that amount of time on stage. You know, we were on a huge world tour. Um, there was a huge learning curve there for me. It was the biggest play I had done at that point in my career and I got a lot from it. And there's, there was a bunch of us that were, are essentially contemporaries that are Black Watch alumni that are now at, you know, different points in our career and, uh, doing really great work and working with great people. And there's people like Jack, obviously, who is just flying at the moment.

• 6:03Speaker 01

  And yeah, I think there's this sort of unspoken sort of connection that we all still have. We're kind of somehow kind of tethered loosely to each other. We were sort of, uh, you know, kind of keeping tabs on each other's, uh, careers and how we're getting on. But, um, I mean, I've got a lot of respect for Jack. He's, uh, he's just, uh, I love how much he loves it. I love how much he loves the game. He is just so it's he has such an incredible passion for every part of the industry, for every side of the industry. And there's also a big supporter of those people coming through and coming into the industry as well.

• 6:43Speaker 01

  But he lives, breathes and eats it, you know, and it's I have a lot of admiration and a lot of respect for that.

• 6:50Josh Horowitz?

  Is there anybody else in that in that crew I wouldn't know? He mentioned, I don't know if this actor was in the in the group or he was just a fan or knew him, but Tom Concarney, was he somebody that was in your kind of periphery or no?

• 7:00Speaker 01

  Oh, Tom Concarney's not mine, no. He wasn't. He wasn't in our show, but he's another one of a kind of a similar age group and a sort of a similar, I suppose, part of his career.

• 7:14Josh Horowitz?

  Did um, he he also mentioned to me when we were talking about you, how much he's enjoyed you, forgive the term, turning into a hunk and how amused, how amused, how amused he's been by the metamorphosis of you. What's your vantage point on the the dawning of the hunky, the hunky era of Richard Rankin?

• 7:37Speaker 01

  I don't know what the I don't know what the the dawning of the hunky era is. I don't know when that started or when that became a thing. I did laugh when I was listening to the podcast that you did with Jack and the fact that he also found it amusing or he found it funny.

• 7:55Josh Horowitz?

  There's that. It's like, why is it funny? Wait, why is let's, you know, natural.

• 8:00Speaker 01

  And then I was sort of having a moment of self-reflection, thinking, haven't I always been, was I was a hunk? But no, I wasn't.

• 8:09Josh Horowitz?

  What were the roles you were like, were you typecast early on? Like, what kind of stuff were you up for in your first days as an actor?

• 8:19Speaker 01

  I don't know, I'd done quite a lot of theatre before I started doing television and those were kind of relatively diverse roles, I think. But coming through ironically, as you know, we were, we're about to talk about Rebus, I've played a few cops, I've played a few detectives.

• 8:35Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 8:35Speaker 01

  Which is not something I would necessarily pigeonhole myself as having a strong point for. I like, I like to keep a bit of variety, I like to keep, you know, keep those tools sharpened in terms of my, my craft and what I can do. And I think constantly challenges, challenging yourself is important and keeping those doors open to more sort of, to a variety of parts is important unless, you know, you want to end up doing a similar or the same thing for a large part of your career, which I don't want to do.

• 9:10Josh Horowitz?

  Well, that gives it.

• 9:11Speaker 01

  Yeah. I've tried not to do that, but um, yeah.

• 9:14Josh Horowitz?

  It gives a good segue. You mentioned Rebus. So this is this great new show. I watched the first couple of episodes. This is something that's already debuted. Outside of the US and it's now coming to the United States, six episodes. This is a beloved character. It's been played before, but in a different kind of incarnations. You're thankfully, you're, you're younger, you're a younger Rebus. Um, that's always a good thing. Um, talk to me a little bit.

• 9:38Speaker 01

  They always say honkyo.

• 9:39Josh Horowitz?

  Obviously, huh? Well, that goes without saying. It just is what it is. Um, I can imagine there are a bunch of interesting selling points, exciting aspects of this. What, what front and centre got you excited about this one?

• 9:54Speaker 01

  A lot of things. Um, like I say, I couldn't have imagined playing, uh, you know, another detective or cop role. I didn't see it in my future. Uh, when Rebus came about, but um, also when I got the call from my agent to discuss it, I didn't think she was talking about Rebus. I didn't think she was talking about the titular role. I thought she was talking about kind of a cameo guest starring role, playing villain or a, you know, this season's bad guy who, you know.

• 10:27Speaker 01

  Gets blown up at the end of the season or something. I didn't think, I didn't think it was going to be Rebus. So I had, I'd had the whole conversation, you know, about meeting with the director and the writer Gregory Bart. Um, before asking the question, by the way, what, what is it? Who is it that they want to see me for? And they said Rebus and.

• 10:43Josh Horowitz?

  Like, are you an idiot? You're, you're Rebus.

• 10:46Speaker 01

  Well, I can't have imagined a world where I'd played that part because I think at that point in my head, I had a very specific idea of Rebus and being Scottish.

• 10:54Josh Horowitz?

  Yep.

• 10:54Speaker 01

  Everyone's aware of it. Everyone's seen it. Um, it was huge when it was on, um, I think it was like maybe 13, 14 years ago. Ken Stott played it last. It was incredible Scottish actor and I suppose I'd maybe had the idea of that, that kind of version of Rebus kind of in my head. So it, it, I, I had never entertained the notion. It had never even crossed my mind fleetingly that, that that might ever be a thing. Um. Obviously once I'd sort of got into it and started chatting with the director and the writer and getting an idea of what their approach was going to be to it. And I thought, no, I can, hang on, I can bring, I can bring something to this, I think. Um.

• 11:36Speaker 01

  So initially it was the script that got me. The first 10 pages, you've seen the first couple of episodes. You've seen that sequence with the ambulance and with what turns out to be, uh, the sort of villain of this series. And, um, cinematically, the, the aesthetic that the director pitched to me was very important. Because the style that he was talking about shooting in this very gritty sort of kind of in, in the actor's face, really getting inside the heads of the actors. You can see every thought or lack of it. Sometimes, sometimes there, you know, there could be more thinking happening, but you know what I'm saying?

• 12:15Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 12:15Speaker 01

  There, there was just, there was a style that allowed us the opportunity to really, um.

• 12:23Speaker 01

  To really serve up a very fresh and original version of the show. And character wise, that did a lot for me, that opening sequence. I thought it just really sets me up in a really great place where I can see, you know, where I can take that character further down the road as we proceed through the series. And yeah, it was just, I just thought it could be something new, something exciting, a really fresh and importantly, an original version of something that we,

• 12:58Speaker 01

  you know, that we've already seen before. And I thought this was a very fresh take on that. So just everything about it just seemed to work from the director's idea as aesthetic, the cinematography of it. The writer, Gary Burke, who I worked with, he actually wrote Black Watch, which is the show that Jack and I have referred to a couple of times.

• 13:22Speaker 01

  So I knew him as a writer and know his work. I've got a lot of love and respect for his work. And I thought if anyone can adapt Sir Ian Rankin's novels, which in themselves are brilliantly written, then it's this guy. And I think I can bring a lot to that. And hopefully that's, that's what happened.

• 13:43Josh Horowitz?

  Well, yeah, you alluded to some things that some differences that people might not expect going to something like this, because, you know, we were all raised, I was certainly raised on a thousand procedural cop shows and kind of like, you know, the case of the week kind of thing, which is fine. And those like, I have a lot of affection for those. But this is as much, you know, charac- this is juicy character stuff. This is like real character study stuff. And you allude to the aesthetic, there's a shot, obviously on location in Scotland, and you can't buy that kind of true production value that comes through. Is that special to work back home or a character that's so special back where you're from? That feel like a special kind of resonance?

• 14:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, obviously Edinburgh plays a big part in it, you know, that's a huge character in the shows. It should be, I mean, Rebus is a very sort of Edinburgh based story. Even though the captain himself is from Fife, which is just kind of north of the city across the water.

• 14:39Speaker 01

  I think we were very lucky to have had the opportunity to shoot in the locations that we did. Um. We shot up on the mound, we shot up around Edinburgh Castle, you know, Edinburgh features very much as a really beautiful backdrop to a lot of this, uh, sometimes quite dark drama. Um. But you meant, you, you talk about, uh, it being sort of a, a character exploration, a character study, and I think it is that. And that was, that was a large part of what was important for me coming into this is that it wasn't. And Gregory Buck himself insisted that it shouldn't be a typical sort of procedural crime drama, which,

• 15:23Speaker 01

  you know, I've got nothing against procedural crimes, hugely successful genre, there's, there's, there's a sort of insatiable appetite for that. People gobble it up, you know, and huge.

• 15:35Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, it's comfort food. It's easy to watch and digest and you can watch.

• 15:39Speaker 01

  And sometimes for some people, that's all they'll watch. They'll, they'll have half a dozen on the go, right? At any one time. They just love it. They breathe it. Um. But I don't think Rebus is that. In fact, if, if you continue to watch it, which you should, Josh, um, you'll see that there's, there's, there isn't really much of a procedural element going on. We're not in the office in front of a whiteboard scribbling down the names of, uh, potential suspects, witnesses, blah, blah, blah, with, you know, little post-its and, uh, Polaroids of evidence going up. There's not, there's not really much of that. We're not all standing around a body, just, you know, half a dozen of us discussing what may or may not have happened. Like, there's maybe a couple of moments where it kind of falls into that, but it largely stays away from it. And we are with

• 16:25Speaker 01

  the characters and their journey through these situations and what it means to them, how it affects them. Um, and it's kind of less of a whodunit, although we do have that kind of element in it, but it's not the driving force of the show.

• 16:40Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 16:41Speaker 01

  Which for me was, I think something that was, it was quite refreshing. It was, uh, it was good to be able to join that and really sort of. I think checking with myself because I was given the opportunity where I suppose the the potential for my performance wasn't in any way really limited. I felt I had such a great cast around me. They were all incredible, every single one of them, mostly every single one of them. So I felt that, yeah, I could go as far as I wanted with that in terms of bringing

• 17:21Speaker 01

  the integrity of my work and what I am as an actor to that. And yeah, I think I think all of those things were just kind of fell into place for me at the right time as well, when I was kind of looking to sort of re-establish myself with myself, if that makes any sense.

• 17:42Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, I mean, yeah, I would imagine, again, as you see, like Outlander, kind of like this transition point, this is a key point to kind of like show off what else you can do and and find something else that's artistically rewarding in a different way. So it's it's exciting you found this.

• 18:02Josh Horowitz?

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• 18:46Josh Horowitz?

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• 19:28Josh Horowitz?

  order and 365 day returns. It's now available in Canada and the UK too. And when Quince asks where you've heard about them, you know what to do. Let them know it was happy, sad, confused. That's the best way to support our show. If I had a dollar for everybody in my life who's benefited from therapy, I would be a very, very rich man. Therapy has certainly helped me, especially when I was a confused teenager and thankfully, that's not a shameful thing to say anymore, right? It's okay to seek help and need help and talk about it. We're all doing our best. We're just trying to get by, right, guys? Unfortunately, the reality is that getting help is still harder than it should be. That's why I'm thrilled always to have Rula as a sponsor of Happy Sad Confused because it's very obvious to me that online therapy should be both accessible

• 20:13Josh Horowitz?

  and affordable for everybody. So let's make it easy for anybody who wants help to get help. That's where Rula comes in. Here's the thing, a lot of online therapy platforms don't actually talk about. Most don't take insurance. That means you're either paying out of pocket or signing up for some very expensive monthly subscription. Rula does it all differently. They work with over 120 insurance plans, so the average copay, I can't get over this, it's just 15 bucks a session. So basically two of your lattes, okay? A pretty good deal if you ask me. That means you can get real therapy from a licensed professional without breaking the bank. And Rula doesn't just set you up and leave you alone. They give you that therapist and then they're along the way, the whole journey with you to make sure your care is working for you and you're actually

• 20:58Josh Horowitz?

  making progress, hitting your goals. This can all happen right away, guys. With Rula, appointments are often available as soon as tomorrow. There are no wait lists. There's no frustrating back and forth. They make it easy. Thousands of people are already using Rula to get affordable, high-quality therapy that's actually covered by insurance. Visit rula.com/happy to get started. That's rula, R-U-L-A dot com slash happy. You deserve mental health care that works with you, not against your budget.

• 21:30Josh Horowitz?

  A couple of questions, as you can imagine, from some of the Happy Say Confused listeners and watchers for you. Gail wants to know, did you watch the 2000 Rebus series at all to research this? Or is that, is it, is that the worst thing to do to watch someone else's interpretation of Rebus?

• 21:45Speaker 01

  In my opinion, yeah, it's not helpful. I don't see what you, what you would be looking to achieve, but I didn't that maybe, maybe looking to, to, to copy or mimic someone else's performance.

• 21:55Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 21:56Speaker 01

  If you have a particular lack of kind of self creativity, I don't know. It wouldn't have done me any good. I actually did watch the 2010. Is that what it was? 2010?

• 22:09Josh Horowitz?

  This one says 2000. So I don't know if there have been written a couple of ones? I don't know. Yeah. This is according to Gail's research. I don't know.

• 22:17Speaker 01

  Oh, well, maybe it's much longer than I thought it was. Yes, I did watch that. I watched both John Hannah's and Ken Stott's. I think you just did, if you lived in Scotland, you watched Taggart. I don't know if you're familiar with Taggart. That's the West Coast version, essentially. And you had Rebus, which was the East Coast version. Right. So I remember watching it at the time. Yeah, it was quite popular at the time. And no, I didn't think it was going to do me any good to go back and watch them because you want to come up with your own thing. It's, it's nice to, to, to have a kind of a nod to the thing that was, but I don't think there's any point in going back and looking at someone else's performance because I had the books for research and I had the scripts and all I had to do

• 23:02Speaker 01

  was, you know, marry the two of them in a way that worked for me that was still going to be, you know, an honest portrayal of this character and, and, you know, my sort of idea of it. I think that's important.

• 23:17Josh Horowitz?

  So here's one that's inevitable. This is a good question to hear because this means they want more. Elizabeth want to know, says that she binged it already in one sitting. Are you guys doing season two? She says, I haven't seen the last episode. She says it's left on a cliffhanger. So. More to come.

• 23:33Speaker 01

  Well, there's a bit of a cliffhanger. So, you know, it's been left in a place that we can certainly continue the story. That's the idea. I'd love to do more.

• 23:41Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 23:42Speaker 01

  Don't be around the bush, be all, you know.

• 23:44Josh Horowitz?

  Cagey. Maybe.

• 23:47Speaker 01

  I'd love to do more. Give me some more of that and I'll, I'll throw another season of that out. Yeah.

• 23:52Josh Horowitz?

  It's been, it's been very well received. I saw that the reviews have been great. I don't know if you're the kind of actor that checks out reviews, if you can resist it, if that's helpful or, or horrible for your brain. Like, do you access the reviews? Do you read your own reviews or no?

• 24:06Speaker 01

  Reviews. I hate reading reviews. Just, I, it's like, it's, it's a funny thing. It's an age old thing of, of, of actors and reviews and whether they're helpful or whether they're not, or whether they're just downright damaging. The truth about a review is you can, and this is, this is also an age old analogy. It's like you can read 99 great reviews.

• 24:28Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 24:28Speaker 01

  Brilliant reviews that you're on top of the world and you read that one. Where some shitheads decided to tear you apart for no apparent reason other than to be contrary, or maybe it is their opinion. So maybe I'm not being fair. Maybe that was their opinion at the time. And fair enough. You're once entitled to one, but that's the one you'll remember and the one that you'll play over and over and over again. And you'll start to think, ah, what could I have done differently to overturn this one person's opinion? Why didn't they like it? What's wrong with me?

• 24:59Josh Horowitz?

  Let me reach out to them. Maybe I can convince them.

• 25:01Speaker 01

  You know, just to sort of be kind of emphatic about the scenario, but it's a funny thing. Reviews are a funny, funny thing. And I don't think there is. Are these necessary? They used to be, reviews used to be a good way to sort of get an idea of whether or not you were going to like something.

• 25:17Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 25:18Speaker 01

  Or whether or not something was being received sort of generally well enough for you to, you know, to spark your own interest. But we have so many platforms on social media and on the internet now. Those things that are kind of reviewed or sort of gauged by the general public, the people who, the punters who are actually going to watch things. And their reviews generally don't marry up with the critic reviews. I've noticed. They generally tend to be a bit of a disparity between the two.

• 25:48Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 25:48Speaker 01

  Um, but to go back to your original question after this rant about critics.

• 25:56Speaker 01

  All of the reviews have been pretty much great, but these are reviews. What I do is I won't go looking for reviews because I will find those negative ones and they will, they will kind of drag me down a little bit. People tend to send me the really good ones, especially our team on Rebus, you know, because it is, you know, it's, it's important to them how well it is received and how well we're doing, obviously. So they'll send me all the ones that are generally favorable and.

• 26:22Josh Horowitz?

  I'm gonna, I'm gonna try, I'm gonna, I'm gonna try to find a, I'm gonna try to find one negative one and I'll be the one to send it to you if that's okay. Can I be that guy?

• 26:29Speaker 01

  Thanks, Josh. Yeah, you can be that guy. Yeah. Cause I know that you'll take some pleasure in that.

• 26:35Josh Horowitz?

  I'll take you down a peg. I want you to, I want you to know, you're in good company. No less than I interviewed Olivia Coleman a bunch of months back and we were talking about reviews and she got, gets so enraged by bad reviews. Olivia Coleman, who's like the best of the best, talked about literally very seriously considering sending fake poo to a critic because she was so upset with a bad review.

• 26:58Speaker 01

  Yes, I listened to that one. That was great. Yeah.

• 27:04Speaker 01

  I won't go that far. I won't go that far unless it's you, unless you're the one sending, you're writing the reviews and.

• 27:11Speaker 01

  Send you something in the mail.

• 27:14Josh Horowitz?

  And I'll look forward to that. So speaking of, of famous, important Scottish characters, I've heard you talk about, and you've actually been in at least one production of Macbeth. And I was surprised to hear what you talk about that, one of the productions and you called it Macbeth. You didn't call it the Scottish play. You're not, are you not superstitious?

• 27:34Speaker 01

  I'm superstitious enough. I think I forgot about the superstition.

• 27:38Josh Horowitz?

  That's like the superstition. That's like the theater superstition.

• 27:43Speaker 01

  I know there's, there's, there's a kind of a. There's kind of an antidote sort of rhyme to it, isn't there? But I forget what it is. It's in black. I'm sure that it was made up. Um, but yeah, no, everyone, not many people are going around calling it the Scottish play anymore.

• 27:59Josh Horowitz?

  So has your

• 28:01Speaker 01

  I'm just not going to say it now because it seems like I'm being tempted into some sort of trap that's going to ruin my career because it will then be documented. I haven't said, have I said

• 28:12Josh Horowitz?

  No, I don't think you said it yet today.

• 28:13Speaker 01

  I haven't said it today.

• 28:15Josh Horowitz?

  So, um, have you played the titular character? We won't say the name of that character. Have you played the M guy yet in production? Is that still an aspiration?

• 28:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, I haven't played the M guy yet. James McCardo played the M guy in that version of the play with Saoirse Ronan as Lady M. Or Susan Macbeth, as we called her, because we realised that none of these characters had first names.

• 28:38Josh Horowitz?

  Right, Lady Macbeth. See, I'm saying it. I'm just, they can't curse me enough.

• 28:42Speaker 01

  It's out now. It's out.

• 28:45Josh Horowitz?

  All right, let's, let's talk a little bit, um, Outlander. Since I saw you, I know it's done, done now because even like when you guys were at Comic Con, I think some of you, maybe you did as well. Maybe everybody went back for a little bit of reshoots. Did you go back? Did you have a little more to do after Comic Con?

• 29:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, a little bit more, which was funny.

• 29:06Speaker 01

  I don't, it was, it was a weird time. It was a very strange time. We've been on the show such a long time now. I think I've been nine years on the show or something. Sam, Katrina essentially started in development, maybe like 11 years ago, right? So

• 29:19Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 29:19Speaker 01

  Around about a decade, we've all been involved in this show. And, um, just through necessity, the way that it ended is you've got, you know, you, you finish on your main unit on your, uh, doing your, your main sort of scenes and whatever.

• 29:37Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 29:38Speaker 01

  And then there'll inevitably be some second unit stuff as you're wrapping up, which is just generally picking things up. Um, or, you know, shots that they've missed the previous week or whatever. Um, and then we had, uh, reshoots after Comic Con. So essentially I was wrapped on the show three times and there was kind of diminishing returns each time we wrapped. So it felt less and less.

• 30:08Speaker 01

  Ceremonial for lack of a better word. Not anticlimactic, but it was just something, there was just something very weird. We were all in a strange emotional state because we're all finishing this thing that we've been on forever with people that we have become, have come to be essentially, you know, our extended families. So yeah, the process of finishing the show just, you know, became a bit endless in itself.

• 30:32Josh Horowitz?

  And not to mention, it's going to go on for a year, year and a half, however long it takes before it comes out.

• 30:38Speaker 01

  Exactly. We've got the second half of season seven coming out.

• 30:42Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 30:42Speaker 01

  Um, this month actually. And then we have season eight coming out, you know, at a later date.

• 30:49Josh Horowitz?

  So what, was there an emotional, like, what, what was the cathartic moment of those many goodbyes? Was there one where you got the most emotional?

• 31:00Speaker 01

  Do you know what? I thought I was okay, Josh. I thought I was all right. And everyone did, I think.

• 31:07Speaker 01

  But I think the closer we got to it, the more we were sort of taken unawares by whatever it was. The, that sense of maybe, maybe grief, maybe loss, maybe, you know, the fact that there would be this thing that had taken up such a huge part of our lives. And it, it was about to not be there anymore. So there was going to be this, just this void, this emptiness, right? That was going to be there and, and it was. So I remember the moment it sort of all came.

• 31:43Speaker 01

  This kind of came over me was when I was finishing. I can't even describe the scene. So I can't even give you the entire context. So we can, remind me to go into this in more detail, you know?

• 31:52Josh Horowitz?

  Okay. Broad strokes and then we'll go back to it. Yes.

• 31:55Speaker 01

  But it was a scene which was kind of reminiscent of a scene, one of the first scenes that I shot at the end of season two. With Sophie, who's been my television partner for, you know, the length of most marriages these days, probably more.

• 32:12Josh Horowitz?

  More, yeah.

• 32:12Speaker 01

  And I just, I was stood there and remember standing there in the scene, being able to think of nothing else but those first days on the show. And then from that sort of reflecting on all of these wonderful moments that we'd had throughout the years, as I was standing there in a scene where I had to be quite reflective of the thing before me and what was going on. So it kind of worked for the context of the scene, but it was quite distracting at the same time because I was probably getting overly emotional about it.

• 32:51Speaker 01

  And it just, everything just seemed to be this sort of full suckle. Because it was just so reminiscent of where I started. And in that, you sort of condense these memories, don't you? And it feels like nine years was nothing.

• 33:09Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 33:09Speaker 01

  Because you sort of, I don't know, you sort of contract those memories in your head when you're thinking about something in sort of isolation that way. And it was like, wait, hang on, how, how are we, how is it 2024? How are we 10 years into the show? How are we finishing season eight? So I don't know, I think there were a lot of sort of overwhelming thoughts and feelings which came out unwelcome as well. They weren't, they weren't supposed to be there. I was like, no, I'm fine, totally stoic. Parlor's a rock.

• 33:43Josh Horowitz?

  You were just getting emotional, knowing, wait, wait, does this mean Josh and I aren't going to talk anymore? Is this, is this, is that what that, but now we know, no.

• 33:51Speaker 01

  I think that's what it was. Oh, that was my one in.

• 34:02Speaker 03

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• 35:00Speaker 04

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• 36:03Josh Horowitz?

  A couple more questions from the fans. Jerry wants to know, is there any other plotline from Outland or experience that you would have liked to have included that you never got to? Is there any, any stone that was left unturned for Roger?

• 36:17Speaker 01

  There's a few, there's a few. I sort of condemned myself quite early on by reading the books, which was very helpful and very unhelpful all at the same time because I found it a very useful resource. It's not something you always have going into a show. There's a series of books on which to give yourself an idea of the character and the world that you're about to step into. And it was really good for the, the character sort of development, early doors as well, because I got a really good idea of what Roger was about. But you inevitably also come across quite a lot of scenes that you get really

• 36:59Speaker 01

  excited about and are really looking forward to shooting and you get a very set idea of how you think that's going to go down. And either it doesn't happen at all, sometimes, not always, it doesn't happen at all, or it happens in a very different way and it's quite jarring with you because you're like, oh, I thought it was going to happen like this. But, you know, it's an adaptation of a very large series of very large books. So we can't, we can't all have all of the things in there that we like and that we love. But so you just have to sort of get on with it and

• 37:32Josh Horowitz?

  Is there one you ever advocated for strongly? Like, can't we, is it too late to get this in there?

• 37:37Speaker 01

  Yes, so there's a few. So there was one, if I'm remembering it correctly, it was when Roger proposes or certainly has the idea of marrying Brianna for the first time. And they're walking along the River Ness in Inverness. And there's a scene in a church, which is just by the banks of the River Ness. And it's there that he sees himself marrying her. And I think it's there at Christmas, Christmas Eve, I think, if I'm remembering. I might have this, I might have this slightly wrong because a few years ago I read it and he proposes, proposes to her in a very wintery sort of feeling Inverness in the 60s. And I thought the way it was written was really sweet, really romantic.

• 38:18Speaker 01

  Um. There was quite a lot of stuff which I had been looking forward to shooting on in season four. There's a whole, there's a whole voyage, a whole transatlantic voyage in the eighteenth century with Roger and he comes across the villainous Stephen Bonnet.

• 38:35Speaker 01

  Um. And, uh, yeah, there was a lot of that story, which I was

• 38:42Speaker 01

  sort of hoping that we would shoot and that we didn't manage to shoot. There wasn't quite the space to get it in there. And I sort of had a bit of a, yeah, bit of a longing to have just explored some of that stuff because it did a lot for the character. It did a lot for the story and a lot for Stephen Bonnet as well, who I thought was just brilliantly played by Ed Spilliers. Um, but you know, you can't, you can't have, when, like I said, when you're referencing books, it's, it's, it's a bittersweet thing because you can't have it all.

• 39:16Josh Horowitz?

  You know, it's not all gonna make it. Yeah, it's just literally impossible. Well, we can do our fanfic. We can do our own running gun version. I've got time on my hands if you wanna, you and Sophie. Yeah, we'll just redo it. Just redo it.

• 39:27Speaker 01

  Just redo scenes and.

• 39:29Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, Outlander Redux, like the, the, the Rankin Horowitz tapes.

• 39:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:36Josh Horowitz?

  Coming soon. Um, the time's flying by, but I want, I want to talk a little bit, uh, I'm curious, just like I was reading a bit about your background. We talked a little bit about the actors you kind of came of age with in the theater, but even before that you were, as I take it, a little bit of a late bloomer coming to acting. One thing that, that caught my eye on Trustee was either Wikipedia or IMDb is it said that a chance, it sounds very dramatic, a chance at the Roosevelt Hotel in LA during a holiday changed your life. Now I'm curious about this because I had a very pivotal moment in my career at the Roosevelt Hotel, but is, is that true? Did you have some kind of like Lauren Bacall, they, they spotted you at the Roosevelt Hotel moment or what, what happened there?

• 40:17Speaker 01

  Kind of.

• 40:18Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 40:18Speaker 01

  That's written quite eloquently. That's not a quote, is it? Someone wrote that.

• 40:23Josh Horowitz?

  It's in, yeah, it's, yeah, like I said, it's either in Wiki or IMDB. Yeah, it's a chance.

• 40:26Speaker 01

  All right.

• 40:27Josh Horowitz?

  Moment. Yeah.

• 40:29Speaker 01

  Um, yeah, well, uh, I mean, I suppose it was probably a number of things. So I can't put it down to. Maybe, maybe it was that one sort of pivotal moment. I had gone to the States for the first time. Uh, in my early twenties, twenty, I think I was. Um, and I had no, I'd always been a quite a creative sort. Um, ever since growing up and, uh, I'd always had to have some sort of creative outlet, whether it was music or writing or singing or guitar or whatever. Um, I was going to be an author for the longest time. Um, and, uh, yeah, I'd ended up falling into I T, not falling into, you know, it's a great sort of love of mine, computers and tech and all the rest of it.

• 41:11Speaker 01

  So I had imagined that that would be my, uh, career and, um, I had gone off to America for the first time. Uh, went on one of these sort of package holidays to Vegas for three or four days and then on to L A for another three or four days and found ourselves, my ex-girlfriend and I, um, at having dinner at the Roosevelt Hotel. And it was, it was dead. There was no one there except this cast. And I think, I can't remember. I can't remember exactly because I didn't know these people at the time. And I think it was the cast of like the O C or something like that. And I got speaking to the, um, one of their producers had asked us to join them

• 41:55Speaker 01

  because it was literally it was us sat at a table or two and then the rest of them sat at this, this big table in the restaurant. We joined them. We had a drink. We were just chatting and sort of, uh, you know, sharing stories as you do. And, um, the producer was chatting and he's like, yeah, you know, have you ever thought about being an actor? And I thought, that's such an odd question to ask someone who's not an actor or has no involvement in the industry. And maybe it was the question itself that kind of stuck in my head. And it was a question that I repeatedly asked myself after we left, but I was like, no, he says, you're gonna have a look, you have, can I have a way about, yeah, I don't know. I suppose a certain sort of charisma. And I was like, where are you? What is your, what is your angle here? Um, you know, you, you look well suited to be one. And I thought, that's.

• 42:38Speaker 01

  Seems like such a bizarre thing to say to someone, but anyway, I remember on the way home, it's sort of, I think that sort of a seed had been planted and I kept thinking about it and I don't know why I kept thinking about it. But the more and more I thought about it, the more and more I thought, you know, I could do, I think I could do that. I think I'd probably give it a go. But I'd also been sort of, I'd also sort of been quite heavily influenced by things like Universal Studios and whatnot, like the next day, right? And all the backlog stuff and all of the, you know, the sort of grandeur of the film industry as it's presented at like Universal Studios and in the Hollywood

• 43:21Speaker 01

  Walk and all that sort of thing. And I think, to pardon the cliche, I think I kind of caught a bit of a bug. Yeah. And I don't, I don't really know how, but I came home and I thought, well, you know, I don't even know if I can act, so I'm gonna have to, I'm gonna have to find out if I can, if I have even any sort of capacity for it. And I asked my brother at the time, not my brother at the time, he's still my brother, but I asked, at that time, I asked my brother what he was doing after the summer and if he fancied auditioning for drama school. And he came to the same conclusion as me. He was like, we don't even know if we can act. And I was like, I bet we can. So we got a book, a

• 44:01Speaker 01

  novel, right? Prose from, this is how, this is how much we knew at the time, right? Yeah. Got a book, I even remember what it was, it was like John Crisham or Geoffrey Archer or something, right? Or Frederick Forsyth, one of my dad's novels off the bookshelf. And we started reading some scenes from that. Ridiculous. But from that, we decided that we had what it takes. And yeah, later auditioned for drama school, got into the same year. And I want to say the rest is history, but that's ridiculous. But it kind of was. And I actually started to really, really fall in love with this whole business of ours and everything that it involves.

• 44:45Speaker 01

  It's been a funny week, John, since then.

• 44:47Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, another reason to love the OC. Let's go with the OC. That makes for a good story. I like that.

• 44:51Speaker 01

  Say that. Something tells. Yeah, let's just say that it is. I wasn't really paying attention, Josh. This is so that is such a such a potentially interesting story and I cannot remember the details.

• 45:02Josh Horowitz?

  I think you should.

• 45:03Speaker 01

  Up because.

• 45:04Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, 100%. Yeah, you need to clean that up. This is kind of like the like, starting point for your Tonight Show appearance. Like, clean it up by then. When you're on Jimmy Fallon, it was definitely the OC for the record and then Mackenzie.

• 45:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I thought someone's going to remember that day. I'm not going to go, it wasn't that at all. It wasn't even one in the business, just a random lawyer and his friends.

• 45:26Josh Horowitz?

  I don't care if it's true or not. I like this story. What can I secret into the universe for you, my friend? You're not wanting for opportunity. Obviously, Rebus is a great one coming off of Outlander. You haven't worked that much in my beloved States. You here and there, tiny bits and bobs. Is that important to you? Is there? Can I put in a good word with Vin Diesel or somebody with a franchise? What do you want?

• 45:51Speaker 01

  There's no harm in you putting in a good word with all of them, Josh. That'd be lovely. No, I have no, I have no particular, I have no overwhelming desire to work in the States. I don't not want to work there, but I would just like to do good work with good people and I'll be happy, you know? It doesn't really matter where it is. Although a lot of American stuff seems to be filmed over in Europe now.

• 46:13Josh Horowitz?

  That's true. What about from the geek standpoint? You talked about kind of being that secret, not so secret geek at Comic Con. What's your?

• 46:20Speaker 01

  Okay, so I definitely want to be like in Marvel, right, Josh? If you can get me in there, right? If there's a reboot of Wolverine, then I'll hit the gym a few times a day, right? Or in fact, just just that. Or Wolverine or Tony Stark, right? A young, younger, but not even that much younger, Tony Stark. I'll go with that.

• 46:41Josh Horowitz?

  Have you ever had those kind of meetings, additions for that kind of a role?

• 46:46Speaker 01

  Not Marvel.

• 46:47Josh Horowitz?

  Not Marvel.

• 46:49Speaker 01

  I've always thought about it though, I've always wondered, how would I, because it's like, you have to sort of marry up

• 46:57Speaker 01

  a sort of an honesty, a sort of a believability and a really quite an otherworldly character if you're talking about Marvel superheroes. So you need to have that sort of storytelling combined with some sort of, some sort of truth. And I've always wondered, how would I do that? How would I go into the room? How would I go into a room and be Superman? Like, I've always, I quite like to be a fly on the wall. I'm sure with enough sort of research and rehearsal, not research, but enough rehearsal, enough practice, you'd come up with something that you could present in the room, I'm sure. But I'd like to be a fly on the wall in some of these auditions where people are auditioning

• 47:36Speaker 01

  for these big superhero or fantasy things where they have to be something literally otherworldly. Like, did Josh, I don't know if Josh probably never had to audition, but Thanos, the world, like, what's, how's he auditioning for that?

• 47:52Josh Horowitz?

  You've also had some absurd auditions where you had to like, hold the fake gun or put on some silly costume.

• 47:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. You have auditions where you have to, you have to sort of imagine props are set here and there. It's usually not, it's usually not too much. You're not usually having to imagine you're fighting a Hulk, right?

• 48:13Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 48:15Speaker 01

  These things I imagine would be kind of funny. Like, could you take it seriously in an audition room? Could you take it seriously? Like, you have the guy and he's doing the best version of the job he's doing, he's giving you his best thought, right? But he is still standing there swinging a piece of string in the middle of the audition room, right? And then to fly off at Asgard. Like, how do you do that?

• 48:39Josh Horowitz?

  That takes talent, yeah. Sell me on Wolverine, call me bub, be menacing, come on, you can, you can do it.

• 48:47Speaker 01

  Call you bub? Is that the line?

• 48:49Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 48:50Speaker 01

  Hey bub, bub. Uh, hey bub.

• 48:55Josh Horowitz?

  Never mind, never mind. We'll, we'll cut that. I want you to get the role. I don't want them to see that.

• 48:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, let's not put that, let's not put that forward to Marvel. I think I got a reply from, right, I got a reply from Sam, did you?

• 49:07Josh Horowitz?

  I'm gonna kill him. What? I did, I did. What time was your, what time did yours come in?

• 49:13Speaker 01

  Mine came in at one minute past, uh, no, seven minutes past five. So seven minutes past 12. You'll say, I think.

• 49:19Josh Horowitz?

  I got mine at eight minutes past.

• 49:21Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 49:22Josh Horowitz?

  Can you say what yours?

• 49:24Speaker 01

  He replied to me, no. So I said, do you miss me? And he says, no, I just want to make sure I can work out in peace.

• 49:32Josh Horowitz?

  He, he wrote to me, I said, do you miss me? And he said, I see Russia has taken over your account too.

• 49:38Speaker 01

  Oh, brilliant.

• 49:40Josh Horowitz?

  Well, you win by a minute. Sam Hewen loves Richard Rankin more. It's definitive. I'll never forgive him.

• 49:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:49Josh Horowitz?

  I think that that's a perfect note to end upon. Um, congratulations, buddy, on new batch of Outlander. But more importantly, we're getting to see new sides of Richard in this fantastic new show, uh, Rebus. I want to tell folks how they can actually see it because that's important. Uh, the via play, uh, streaming service is available as an add-on subscription via Amazon Prime Video channels, as well as Roku Comcastling, all those fun things. Just look it up. How to watch Rebus. You'll figure it out, guys. I trust you. Or, or we have, we have, uh, Richard as our IT consultant. I'm sure he can help you out.

• 50:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, which is what I'm about to do now, right? You had a problem with your printer?

• 50:24Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, yeah. If you could clear my cache for me. Yeah, thank you.

• 50:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:29Josh Horowitz?

  Um, no, truly, buddy. It's always good to see you. And I'm glad we had a chance to have this, uh, this fun one on one time.

• 50:35Speaker 01

  Always a pleasure. Thanks, Josh. Thanks for having me.

• 50:38Josh Horowitz?

  Thanks, buddy.

• 50:40Speaker 02

  And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh.

• 51:00Speaker 05

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• 51:45Speaker 05

  If you like Gothic mysteries, Regency romance, immersive role-playing, horror that follows you long after the story ends, step through the Darkling Gate. Watch on Geek and Sundry's YouTube channel, or listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and wherever you get your podcasts.