Nicholas Hoult, Vol. IV

It's a busy time for Nicholas Hoult with 3 films out this Fall, JUROR #2 from Clint Eastwood, THE ORDER, and NOSFERATU. Oh and he's playing Lex Luthor in SUPERMAN next year! Josh and Nick talk about all of it and more on his 4th trip to the podcast! UPCOMING LIVE EVENTS 11/9 -- Barry Keoghan ay 92NY in NY -- ⁠Tickets here⁠ 11/12 -- Pamela Anderson and Gia Coppola at 92NY in NY -- ⁠Tickets here⁠ SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS! BetterHelp -- Go to BetterHelp.com/HSC for 10% off ZocDoc -- Go to ZocDoc.com/HappySad Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Happy Sad Confused patreon here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! We've got discount codes to live events, merch, early access, exclusive episodes, video versions of the podcast, and more! To watch episodes of Happy Sad Confused, subscribe to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Josh's youtube channel here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:31Speaker 01

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• 0:59Josh Horowitz?

  So do you have secret selfies of yourself as both Batman and Superman in your iPhone currently?

• 1:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, I do.

• 1:12Speaker 03

  And Lex.

• 1:14Josh Horowitz?

  Amazing.

• 1:15Speaker 03

  Maybe for, maybe for Halloween, I'll be Wonder Woman.

• 1:17Speaker 04

  Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins now.

• 1:25Josh Horowitz?

  I'm Josh Horowitz and today on Happy, Sad, Confused, Nicholas Hoult is here. It's been five years since Nick has been on the podcast. What happened to us? We're going to try to find out and also try to squeeze in some talk about his very busy fall. Nosferatu, the order, juror number two. Oh, and he's also Lex Luthor in the Superman movie next year, so we'll hit on that. But to me, he's still just Nick who taught me how to season my sandwiches. Here he is back on the pod where he belongs. Hey, Nick.

• 1:52Speaker 03

  Five years, five years. I can't believe it's been that long. That makes me very sad that it's been that long. But I'm glad you remember the, the sandwich seasoning and that was the big takeaway from our last chat because it's important. Has, has your sandwich life improved?

• 2:06Josh Horowitz?

  Sandwich life has improved. You've, yeah, you really have taught me nothing about film or acting, but, but seasoning my tasty sandwiches.

• 2:14Speaker 03

  I can't, I can't teach you anything about film or acting. I don't know anything about that.

• 2:18Josh Horowitz?

  That's not true.

• 2:19Speaker 03

  A little bit of salt and pepper on a sandwich is useful.

• 2:21Josh Horowitz?

  Um, the good news is I did revisit our past three conversations and the bar is so low on anything substantive. It's just, it's so, it's, we're already ahead of the game, I think.

• 2:32Speaker 03

  Are we gonna have a substantive chat? Are we gonna chat about serious things?

• 2:35Josh Horowitz?

  I don't know. Is that our vibe? I don't, well, you can try.

• 2:38Speaker 03

  I, I, I'm, I'm willing to go there. I'm emotionally available to you and only you. Sometimes my kids, but.

• 2:46Josh Horowitz?

  I appreciate that. I, well, I like to think of myself as the, as the third Nicholas Hoult child.

• 2:51Speaker 03

  Saw an image of you stuck to my fridge and it made me happy.

• 2:56Josh Horowitz?

  For, okay, so.

• 2:57Speaker 03

  If you could do little drawings of stick, stick family, us, that would be useful.

• 3:01Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, I'll get that over to you. Uh, that's about my drawing capability.

• 3:04Speaker 03

  That's your homework.

• 3:06Josh Horowitz?

  So, yeah, since, since our two favorite topics generally on this podcast, at least with our conversations are, are food and film. Uh, which of the three films that you're promoting this fall had the best catering? Should we start there?

• 3:19Speaker 03

  Uh, Dura Number Two, I think, had the best catering, Tony's catering, because Clint Eastwood has been using them as his caterers for maybe thirty or forty years. They're, they're his peeps, they're his go-tos. Food was fantastic. And also, this is actually, let's get, let's dive right in.

• 3:35Josh Horowitz?

  Let's do it.

• 3:36Speaker 03

  Character, character, eating like the character. Rob Eggers wanted me to lose, to lose weight for Dura Number Two, uh, for, look at me, I'm getting the movies mixed up, for Nosferatu, and that shot first. So for Nosferatu, I, I, I wasn't eating. I stopped drinking and I wasn't eating particularly,

• 3:54Speaker 03

  huge amounts to lose weight for that. Then the order, Bob Matthews was actually, he, he didn't drink. He, he, he was a very clean living person, but, but he was very healthy as well. He lifted weights and stuff. And so I was trying to like, and he was kind of physically bigger. So then I was eating lots and lifting weights, trying to get more like him. And then Dura Number Two, I, I was just a person, so I just continued to eat normally.

• 4:18Josh Horowitz?

  Well.

• 4:19Speaker 03

  And the catering, and the catering was very good. So I got to enjoy the good catering. And that was very nice. Because also, the really lovely thing about working with Clint Eastwood is he kind of, a lot of the time you'll finish.

• 4:31Speaker 03

  At lunchtime, he doesn't like to do a lot of takes or like spend like long days on set. So we'd go in, you'd have breakfast, you'd shoot for now six, maybe seven hours or something, break for lunch. And normally on another film, you'd go back for like another six hours or something. With Clint, everyone sits around. He still goes to, you know, wherever you want to eat and you will sit there and have a nice meal and maybe a dessert, a bit of pie or something and then you go home. So it's it's a very nice way of working.

• 4:57Josh Horowitz?

  It does feel like he cracked the code. He's like figured out how to make it like quick and efficient and somehow also creatively so satisfying like it sounds like all the the Clintisms are true. The I assume he doesn't, he doesn't call action. They're only two or three takes. All of that is what you

• 5:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, no, there's not, there's, there's no action or cut. It's, it's, it goes quiet. I mean, he's had the same team with him for so many years now. It's very smooth and focused.

• 5:23Speaker 03

  But it's, it's, it's a wonderful thing that he has. It's, I think he's, he's cracked the code on life in many ways and filmmaking. It's a trust he puts in everyone to do their job. Everyone wants to do great because it's Clint and they care for him and, and, and, and, you know, his, his process in terms of he'll go quiet and he'll say, whenever you're ready, you're just right, go do the scene and then you might, you might hear, you might hear stop or that's enough of that. And then, and then he'll say like, one of his favorite says, he just says, pretty, pretty good. And then, and then you move.

• 6:00Josh Horowitz?

  Well, is this a curb enthusiasm? Were you, were you?

• 6:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think that's where he got it. That's, I think that's where he gets it, gets it from. But he, he'll say that and then, and then we'll move on. He'll say that's it. And it's, I don't know, the one of the, I'm not someone who accepts things very easily, probably. I feel like I'm always like, I'm like, give me one more take or I can do better or like whatever. And so it was really interesting going from working with Eggers to Justin Kuzel to Clint. His ability to just trust.

• 6:30Speaker 03

  The process.

• 6:30Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 6:31Speaker 03

  And the audience. It's not to spoon feed and not to overhit any elements or anything. I think, I mean, he's got a great musical quality to his films. And I think he's not influenced by what's faddy or like, this is what people want right now. So we're gonna, we're gonna make it big and bust like loud. And I don't know. He just, he just is and does. And it's the same process in, in life that he's got this, this great calm and, and collectedness and, and a wicked sense of humor. And it's all, it's just fun being around him. So I felt very lucky to have that experience.

• 7:08Josh Horowitz?

  I would imagine also inspiring. I mean, this is a guy in his nineties that still just gets so much out of it. Like, do you imagine yourself the kind of actor that's just gonna act until they say, we're, we're good, Nick? You can go to the home.

• 7:22Speaker 03

  And then in, in the home, hopefully I'll be like, hey, you guys wanna?

• 7:25Josh Horowitz?

  You wanna put it on a show?

• 7:28Speaker 03

  Come on, we can do something, right?

• 7:32Speaker 03

  Do I think I, I think so. I think I like, I like the community of filmmaking. And that's something, again, I'll say about that because of all these people that he's like, that he's worked with, who loves and he's got this great community around him. And, and also in terms of the community of people that love his movies that support him as an actor and a filmmaker. So there's, I don't know, I like the process of filmmaking. I like the process of acting.

• 7:59Speaker 03

  Because maybe we've spoken about this. I feel like it's, you get to live a thousand lives being an actor. You get to experience so many different walks of life and places and things and ideas and history and whatever it might be that I'm kind of, I feel like I've kind of, it's kind of a secret hack for like getting to live the most life you possibly can while you're here in the time we have.

• 8:18Josh Horowitz?

  It's also such a

• 8:19Speaker 03

  Much better than talking about seasoning sandwiches. Look at us go.

• 8:22Josh Horowitz?

  Wow, we are so elevated this time. It's also a joy to see you and Tony Collette together again after all these years. This is like one of the fun things. Like, I was actually, to name drop, I just had Tom Hanks on, on the podcast. And he was talking about reuniting with Robin Wright 30 years after Forrest Gump and to, to kind of revisit filmmakers and actors at different points in your life. Talk to me a little bit about the meaning of kind of coming back around to work with Tony now as an adult in such a different time and place in your life. That must have some resonance for you.

• 8:52Speaker 03

  You know what? It was really magic, partly because, I mean, Tony, you know, is such a wonderful person. Her, she brings like light and joy. Um, everywhere she goes and laughter and so. But it was also something whereby she took great care of me on About a Boy. She really was like a maternal figure to me throughout it and just set me off on such like the perfect trajectory and course, I suppose, and the example she set

• 9:20Speaker 03

  of what filmmaking could and should be and how actors should be. Um, and then we hadn't really seen each other. Um, but for a long time. So in that, in those like intimate years between, I also, you know, when you're a kid, you're just doing and you don't really know, you know, like roughly like, oh, these are famous older people that are in movies, but you don't really know, like, I hadn't seen all her work. And then since she's given so many wonderful performances as well. So getting to go back and watch all those and watch her even more. And just be blown away by her talent as an actress. And even like, I'll be scrolling through Twitter or whatever, and it'll be like greatest performances in films and like one of her scenes in Hereditary will come up and I'll just sit there for like a minute or two watching that. And I'll be like, oh my gosh, she is incredible. Like,

• 10:06Speaker 03

  I love doing that and seeing like all the little facts, like this was a first take, this moment wasn't scripted and all this sort of stuff. I'm like, oh, exciting. Um.

• 10:14Josh Horowitz?

  I always think about, I was gonna say, she, she worked, I mean, I think she did Sixth Sense, obviously Oscar nominated before you. And I think people don't remember how young she was playing a mom. I think she was like twenty four or something. So the math did not work at all, but she's amazing in that, too.

• 10:31Speaker 03

  The first scene we shot together was like her last scene in the movie, the last scene of the movie. And so it was this weird thing where my character, you know, I was looking at Tony now as an adult, she's looking at me, but we're also, we know each other so well from a past life, but like a different version of ourselves. And suddenly we're in this scenario. It was, it was really interesting. My, yeah, it was kind of like a short wiring of lots of different emotions and things.

• 10:55Josh Horowitz?

  So I think we, we, we probably talked about About a Boy way back when. What is your relationship at this point to Killing Me Softly? Is that something you've sung in the last twenty two years or did you retire then and there?

• 11:05Speaker 03

  You know what? I, I, I have retired. I think a couple of times people tried to get me up to sing karaoke and I was mortified and so embarrassed. But I found out doing press with Tony, it is her karaoke song. And I was like, no, surely not. And she was like, no, she was like, no, no, no, the cool version, the fu- Fujis version. And I was like, it's still the same.

• 11:25Speaker 03

  I was like, I know you're not singing the version from the movie, you know? I can't imagine you've got-

• 11:30Josh Horowitz?

  The definitive version, the only one we're talking about, yeah.

• 11:33Speaker 03

  I was like, yeah, the Fujis version. Does Hugh Grant come out and play the guitar with you when you do it? I don't know. Um, but yeah, I thought that was funny. Maybe I should make mine a mystical shake your ass. Maybe I should break that my karaoke song.

• 11:45Josh Horowitz?

  You could, you could just instantly become a TikTok star if you just decided one day, I'm gonna re- I'm gonna bring it back. And the internet would exploit it, it would melt down. We'd have to shut it down for a day. Nicole back doing his thing.

• 11:56Speaker 03

  I think it would be good for my career if I did do that, so.

• 11:59Josh Horowitz?

  I think so, I think so, I think so.

• 12:00Speaker 03

  As soon as we hang up, I'm gonna Google local karaoke bar and I'm gonna go do it. On a Wednesday, on a, on a Wednesday afternoon.

• 12:14Josh Horowitz?

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• 12:56Josh Horowitz?

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• 13:39Josh Horowitz?

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• 14:21Josh Horowitz?

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• 15:03Josh Horowitz?

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• 15:42Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, let's hit some of these other wonderful films. The Order couldn't be more different than these other two. Re teaming with Justin Kurtzall. As I understand it, a pretty intense filmmaker. I think I interviewed him actually about the Ned Kelly Gang.

• 15:56Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. Did you find him intense?

• 15:58Josh Horowitz?

  A bit, a bit. Is he intense? Is that accurate or no?

• 16:02Speaker 03

  You know what? He can be, but he's also not. He's full of so much love. He's, and I thought going into the Kelly Gang, I was like, oh, it's gonna be.

• 16:11Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 16:12Speaker 03

  So long, but actually he's very funny and light. And a lot of the time he'll like, you'll be doing a scene and he'll be like, he'll shout out something. I remember doing the scene in that where I'm sat on the sofa in just my socks and a pipe. Naked apart from that, talking to George Mackay. And we're doing the scene and then, and then Justin yells out from the other room, he goes, "Ask him if he loves you. Ask him if he wants to kiss," or something like that. I was like, I was like, what? I started giggling. He's like, I can't do it. And I'm like, okay, I'll do it. Justin also has a way of looking at his characters, not with an empathy, but with an understanding and crafting them

• 16:53Speaker 03

  in a full 3D world and not just, you know, really exploring the gray area of human nature. As opposed to just going, all right, this is good and bad and off we go. So I had, and also his ability to

• 17:08Speaker 03

  to come up with new ways of working is that he sent through manifestos before we started shooting.

• 17:15Speaker 03

  Where it would be things like, you know, some, some things where he'd be like, oh, send me a voice note talking about the guns you own or how you feel about America. But then also like, write a letter to your loved ones that where you know you're gonna, you're about to die and write a letter to them about how you feel. You know, when you, when you land in Calgary, provide the group of actors that are around you in your group. Take them for dinner, take them fishing, all these things that um just make you feel slightly in that in, you know, ingrained in the character in a way. So that the acting kind of becomes less of a performance, I suppose.

• 17:48Josh Horowitz?

  Did you look at other, I mean, obviously, this is a real figure, but like this is a, this is a pattern, obviously, we've seen men like this before and after these charismatic. Um leaders, whether, you know, I think of like, you know, David Koresh's of the world, Jim Jones, et cetera, like. Is that an interesting rabbit hole to go down to see the common denominator of these kind of folks?

• 18:06Speaker 03

  There's so many rabbit holes with these sorts of characters.

• 18:10Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 18:12Speaker 03

  I know it depends, we've watched, you know, there was also a long list of movies and reading and whether it was reading things, you know. That Bob Matthews would read, you know, reading The Turner Diaries or Oswald Spengler and these ideas and then. Or like watch documentaries about really, really ribs, even though that happened after the events in our story. How the, you know, government. Can sometimes mishandle these sorts of events as well and how that then emotionally affects people in terms of what they feel towards. Um their beliefs. So there's, yeah, there's all sorts of rabbit holes to go down and I actually did find deep, deep in the web somewhere, you know. A recording of Bob Matthews, so I could listen to him.

• 18:56Speaker 03

  Give his, is one of his speeches, which um.

• 19:01Speaker 03

  Which was interesting because it was actually, it was, you know what, it was actually kind of not long before filming started that I found it. And I'd already, before then, I'd already worked on a voice, an accent for Bob, you know, we'd read The Silent Brotherhood, the, the book, the films based on and. And gone into like. Where he was from, how he would have talked, the different sounds of may been specific with his accent. But then I found this recording and I was like, oh, well, now I can really take out the sounds, but also his voice wasn't as I had crafted it. His voice was kind of less, it was kind of higher pitched and, and. Almost a little bit airier than I thought it would be.

• 19:40Speaker 03

  And so I sent the recording to Justin and I'd already been sending him so many voice notes and recordings and whatever and blah blah in the voice that I had interpreted. I'd been like, I was like, which one do you want me to do? Do you want me to flip and do like one that's more closer to Bob? Or do you want me to stick with the one I've got? And he said, stick with the one you've got. He's like, I prefer that. Which is kind of a great thing about playing a real character that isn't. Um, so known, you know, you don't, you don't have to do an impression. It can be a ghost or an interpretation.

• 20:08Josh Horowitz?

  No, it's an exceptional performance and, and, and so fun to see you and Jude kind of like, yeah.

• 20:13Speaker 03

  That was also one of the fun things that Justin did that I didn't know. He told Jude to follow me for a day and we were kept separate until we met.

• 20:20Josh Horowitz?

  That's crazy.

• 20:20Speaker 03

  In a scene, we didn't, we didn't hang out. Justin said to me, he said, uh, he said, I don't, I don't want you to be friends with Jude. I don't want you hanging out with him. And I was like, all right, cool.

• 20:29Josh Horowitz?

  You're like, I was kind of hoping to be friends with you at all, but okay.

• 20:32Speaker 03

  I was like, I'm a big fan. Are you sure I can't just like take him some tea or something? Um, so we were kept separate and it was funny because all those things, you know, I'm not a method actor, but. Anything that emotionally or physically makes things feel a little bit more real is helpful. Whatever that might be, if it's staying in an accent, if it's hanging out, doing things that make you feel more like a character, whatever. So then it's like being kept separate. You know, if you, if you're good friends with someone and you, then obviously they, when you see their face, it makes you happy and you're like, oh yeah, great. Um, I didn't really know Jude or, and then suddenly there's this element of like, we're meeting for the first time in the story and in real life in some ways. So there's an adrenaline to that that can't be faked. So it was, you know, it was great.

• 21:15Josh Horowitz?

  Um, okay. So then on the spectrum here, okay. So we figured out Clint, super chill, makes the chill sets that like everybody wants to be on. Kurtzle seemingly intense, but can have a quip or two to put you off guard. Then we got Eggers. Let's talk Robert Eggers. Uh, Nosferatu, I think I told you when I ran into you in Toronto, this is my most anticipated film. I haven't seen this one yet. Uh, but Eggers creates a world like very few can. Had you been talking to him about doing this one or others? Had you been in the Eggers orbit for a few years? Like, how did this one happen?

• 21:50Speaker 03

  I first met Rob just after The Witch came out. I loved that movie. And I just, I felt like he was a true master of creating tension and a singular voice in filmmaking, you know. And so we'd met, I think in, I think I was filming in New York at the time. So we'd gone to like a bar in Brooklyn and just hung out after that. And then kind of very loosely stayed in touch over the years. And then there had been a version of this film, maybe a year or two before this, where we've briefly spoken about it and then it all kind of went away again. And then, and then I think it was about a year later, he got in touch again and said, hey, I think it's gonna, it's gonna go and would like to be part of it. And

• 22:33Speaker 03

  And I just feel like Rob is, first of all, like, when I look at The Northman and particularly The Lighthouse, he's making such unique, special films. But also, you know, getting some of the best performances I've ever seen, you know, if you watch Willem and Rob in The Lighthouse, I'm blown away by their acting. So I was like, I will do anything.

• 22:56Speaker 03

  Rob Eggers is directing and if, and that would continue forever for me because I just, I, he's, he's very singular in his approach. This is obviously, you know, a reimagining, I suppose, of, of the 1922

• 23:12Speaker 03

  version of Nosferatu, but, but Rob has, has gone in and really focused a lot on Ellen and her and, you know, Lily Rose Depp's character, this her, the internal evil that she's battling and the lust that she has and, and this connection between her and this, and Count Allot, Bill Skarsgås' character. And, and, you know, their performances are amazing, but also Rob as a director is so prepared as opposed to, I mean, that sounds like I think that Justin and Clint aren't prepared, but so meticulously prepared in terms of. How he writes the script, the detail within that, the the language being, you know, obviously era-specific and and tight and complete.

• 23:57Speaker 03

  The descriptive language within it. And then his storyboarding, you know, the whole movie was storyboarded where him and him and Jaren, his D P. They we they formulated every shot they've. I've never experienced this, they so they've built sets for that movie whereby a lot of the takes we shot on film and a lot of the a lot of the scenes would be like there'd be, I don't know, two shots for the scene or three shots. So the camera, everything has to happen in in camera. And so it would be they'd know that the dolly would, you know, start here and then the camera would move here. But because of what you see in the shot at the beginning, there has to be a wall there. But then to get to where we want to go, that wall has to to fly away. So I've never been on sets like this before where everything is so thought through and planned.

• 24:41Speaker 03

  And and Rob's so specific in terms of the dialogue, the framing, the costumes, which cigar your character should be smoking, all of that. Um, I just think it makes to a really transportive um cinema experience because, you know, you're going to this Gothic horror movie that feels completely authentic. Um, and it feels to me, watching the movie, it feels like classic cinema from another era. You know, it doesn't feel like a movie that gets made. Um, I don't think anymore.

• 25:10Josh Horowitz?

  Did you and I don't know if you knew Bill prior to this, Bill Skarsgård, but I'm I'm fascinated with what he's doing with his career. And it's similar to you, like you guys both do not shy away, despite kind of like being like, you know, having the leading man look and kind of can do that forever for the next ten, fifteen, twenty years, as long as people want you to do that. You kind of revel in playing also some despicable characters. And Bill is like just leaning into these kind of grotesque, crazy villains. Have you guys kind of like bonded on that level of talking a little bit about like? Yeah, we we can play the straight arrow hero, but it's fun to play the the baddie.

• 25:46Speaker 03

  Uh, first, I I I love Bill. I've met him once, once before, just at a party and and really liked him there. Um.

• 25:55Speaker 03

  But also, yeah, I think he's so talented. I think he's a true master of being able to completely vanish into characters. Um, so I just enjoy watching it. And what he's done with Count Orlok in this is really special. I remember the first time. Rob played me a recording of the accent he was working on on his phone in rehearsals. And it's so weird because you know the sound on a phone is so tinny and like doesn't fill a room, but the voice he had created. Filled the room and it was so imposing and peculiar and lived in and accurate. In terms of like this history and geography, but also like. Just real. And that's what I think is so special about how he's created this character because. You know, for all intents and purposes, it's the monster in this movie.

• 26:38Speaker 03

  But it's not how he's played it. He is, he has made it real and authentic to the world. And terrifying, but also, you know, imposing and. Rich with. It's just imbued with so many things. It's really exciting to be in scenes. He's scary. It's scary to be in scenes with him. He's physically, you know, Bill, he's tall. I'm, I'm pretty tall, but I end up a lot of the time. You know, in scenes with people where they're like, this person's meant to be physically imposing. And I'm like, well, they're not because. I'm like six, two or three and I'm like, okay, I'll, I'll act scared, but it just doesn't feel like I'm that scared of this person. But Bill, you know, particularly that guy, he's tall and he had this, this. This big costume, he's got quite a noble look, this magnificent star. She's kind of weirdly oddly handsome. He's not fully a monster. It looks like.

• 27:24Speaker 03

  Some, you know, this real count, um. And so, yeah, it's, it's a wonderful performance he's given. I'm excited for people to see it, um, because it doesn't feel like he's just playing a monster in a movie and trying to be scary. It feels like he's a real living. Being or, or creature that has emotions underneath of it all as well as being this.

• 27:45Speaker 03

  This evil spirit, so it's it's it's exciting. And yeah, I like I like it. I like Bill's career as well. I think he he does take risks and doesn't take the obvious route. And I think that's it's more fun for me as a film fan to watch him do that and to watch him play all these different characters. Because I'm like, oh, I want to see what Bill was doing in a movie because I know it's not going to be

• 28:08Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 28:09Speaker 03

  simple and obvious.

• 28:10Josh Horowitz?

  Well, a- again, I I apply that to you as well. And that leads us kind of like to the journey. If you'll indulge me, a little bit of the journey I'd love to explore of getting to Luther in Superman. I know we have a long way to go talking about that. But to contextualize for folks, I mean, look, we've we've talked a lot about kind of these big auditions you've been on over the years and these close calls that have come or not. This came relatively like just a year or two after very, very close call on Batman. So were you was that that that I don't know. I mean, that's that's got to be a blow. You get you you're so close to something that you know is going to be a really cool opportunity. Like, were you were you reticent about going in again for another iconic superhero after going through the emotional, whatever it was to almost get Batman?

• 28:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, of course, it's an emotional blow.

• 28:57Speaker 03

  Because your imagination doesn't know. You know, like, you're aware on on a practical level. You're like, I know that I'm auditioning, you know, against Rob. And Rob's fantastic in that movie. And I think that was the right decision.

• 29:12Speaker 03

  But also, you get excited about the prospect. You know, Matt's a fantastic director and and the script and everything. I was like, this is going to be a cool movie. I want to be part of it. And a brilliant character. So then, yeah, there's obviously a period of like, before you it's like a weird period where before you can get to the acceptance and like see the movie and be like, oh, yeah, that works. That was the right choice. You have to go through the period of like, oh, what could I have done differently? Why not? Like, you know, you run through all those things, obviously.

• 29:41Speaker 03

  And then was I hesitant about going in? I think under different circumstances I would have been, yeah, because um. It's a lot to put yourself through emotionally. And also even more so than. It's also weird now that this process has suddenly somewhat become public.

• 29:57Josh Horowitz?

  I know, yeah, yeah, that's the weird part.

• 30:00Speaker 03

  You know, cause there's plenty of times that people go and audition for things and you never hear about it, you never know.

• 30:04Josh Horowitz?

  Of course.

• 30:05Speaker 03

  And it's like that's happening all the time. But now there's this weird thing where it's like. And it's only public for people that care. Most people day to day don't care about this stuff. But like, it feels weird then, cause you're like, oh, and you know. It's one thing to have your failures, it's one another thing to have them like publicly broadcast seemingly to everyone um.

• 30:22Josh Horowitz?

  Not to mention it's happening like almost in real time. It's like these things like leak out and you're like, he's meeting on Friday and it's like, well. You're in the middle of it. I can only imagine the respect there.

• 30:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, adds adds an element of drama to it, I suppose. But that's also interesting. I mean, I remember. You know, a week before we did the Batman test, I was driving in my car and I had the radio on and I and they were like. And they were talking on the radio about how Rob was gonna be the new Batman. And I was like, well, I was like, it's not confirmed yet. I was like, I'm I'm auditioning next weekend. I was like, give me a chance um.

• 30:54Josh Horowitz?

  Call it call into the radio show, uh, guys, uh, Nick from London here, um.

• 30:58Speaker 03

  Hey, it's me um. Uh. Uh. So, yeah, I was hesitant, I would say I would be hesitant about going through that process again, but then at the same time, I'm I I think James Gunn's such a fantastic director. And I was so excited about what he was gonna be building with DC and with Peter Saffron that I was that um I'd spoken to him and kind of. I don't know, the idea of being a part of what they were building was exciting to me um. And I think there was also an element of when we spoke of this idea that because because they they they knew that. I'd been through that process that they they kind of didn't necessarily want me to have to go through that again, which is very kind of them, it's caring of them.

• 31:42Speaker 03

  So there was kind of this element of them being like, hey, we like you as an actor, et cetera, et cetera. We kind of want you to be in this world. And so then actually quite a nice element of like going into to screen test. It was weird because I literally finished shooting the order, I think on Thursday or Thursday, flew back to LA, maybe the Friday, did the screen test for Superman Saturday, Sunday, then flew to Savannah on the Monday to start shooting Dura on the Wednesday. So it was like, in terms of like gymnastics, physically but mentally as well of being like, okay, we're finished shooting that, make sure you know the lines for these scenes for the screen test and then you're gonna run down to be with Clint and start that.

• 32:23Speaker 03

  That was a lot, but also it felt like, it felt in many ways like a, um,

• 32:31Speaker 03

  not a win-win situation, because obviously that's not how you go into those things. But there was a, I took an element of pressure off myself, I suppose, because I was like, hey, you're also just going in to see if you and James like working together and enjoy that process and, and so it wasn't like, this has to be everything and right now, you know? So that was kind of a better approach, perhaps mentally as well for me.

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• 35:00Josh Horowitz?

  So do you have secret selfies of yourself as both Batman and Superman in your iPhone currently?

• 35:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, I do.

• 35:12Speaker 03

  And Lex.

• 35:14Josh Horowitz?

  Amazing.

• 35:15Speaker 03

  Maybe for, maybe for Halloween, I'll be Wonder Woman.

• 35:20Josh Horowitz?

  So, okay, again, I know we have time, but talk to me what you fell in love with about this character in particular, about your take on Lex. So you've seen Lex played by Icons, Gene Hackman, it's hard to top him, but you're not about topping him, you're doing something different. What's different and exciting about your Lex?

• 35:35Speaker 03

  No, it's not, it's never about that. It's about, I think you take from all the previous interpretations of the character and the comics and, and you build upon it. That's the fun thing in like movies and comics and all kind of, all media in a sense of the history of, of all of it. It's all kind of a building amalgamation of it. And then you, and then there's weird connections I make where I'm like, oh, you know, I'm working with Clint, who obviously directed Unforgiven, and that's what Gene won his, won one of his Oscars for, his brilliant performance in that. And, you know, watching Michael Rosenbaum as well, and all these brilliant people that have played that character.

• 36:16Speaker 03

  First and foremost, it always comes back to to James and his style and and how he crafts his movies, which I'm just a fan of. And I think it's the perfect tone um and world that he's built with this script. And then it's about emotionally just trying to to tap in and understand the character in in a way that makes it real to you and authentic to you. And I think that's what's really fun for me in playing Lex. It's funny because when I first read the script, I remember reading it. And there was a little inkling part of me that was like, oh, I think you'd have fun playing Lex. And I didn't say anything. And then when James called me to play Lex, I

• 36:58Speaker 03

  I did kind of cackle, I think is how I'd describe it. I didn't say anything. He said, how would you do? He said, do it. I think he said, we want you to play Lex. I just laughed because I because there was, I think there was something in my instinct. When I read, first read the script, where I was like, I think that's more what I should be doing in this story. Um, and so and so then I was I was very excited because I was like, oh.

• 37:22Speaker 03

  It felt like universe wise, everything aligned in a way that made sense to me. And I was like, oh, you kind of, your instinct, you override, I override my instincts sometimes, I think. My gut perhaps to my to my better judgment, to my worst judgment. Um, and I was like, oh, you kind of knew right back then that that was probably the right thing to happen. And now it has. So then so then it was quite a, um, then it was just an exciting process because, you know. Going back, watching watching the previous movies, but then, you know, reading comics, reading books, trying to understand X physically and emotionally and

• 37:59Speaker 03

  and and and just dig into that to to give, you know, hopefully a a a real performance that's got real emotion and and and and some good stuff grounding it in something that people will enjoy watching.

• 38:14Josh Horowitz?

  And and last thing on that, was there a comic he kept coming back to? There's so many to shoot, pick and choose from. Which one did you find most helpful?

• 38:20Speaker 03

  There's there's so many and James has already spoken about quite a few that influence, obviously, the overall film and All Star Superman. And there's there's little things that you draw from each Birthright and all those all those comics. But the one that I I really rung and I I mean, I read a lot, but the one that I I found myself picking up again a lot was uh Luther Man of Steel. Um, yeah, there was a lot in that that I that I kind of just resonated with me.

• 38:54Josh Horowitz?

  All right, more to come on that. We'll continue that conversation. Uh, I feel like, you know, it's funny, looking back at our past conversations is how often Tom Cruise has come up way before you even way before you even met with him about Top Gun and then Mission, we were talking about you working with Tom. I find it so funny.

• 39:09Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 39:09Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, yeah, truly. Um, and then, of course, that almost happens on both Top Gun and really almost happens on on Mission, which I guess the great the great scheduling is the one that kind of screwed that up.

• 39:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, you were we were about to start filming and then it was the world was COVID. Um, we were in Venice and and and we were meant to be shooting, you know, those scenes that happened in Venice and then and then the carnival got shut down and then Italy started to shut down and everyone and then we flew out and then, yeah, production got delayed and then I couldn't couldn't make the movie because of, yeah, scheduling.

• 39:41Josh Horowitz?

  Is that is that weird to see? Because I see we saw the film since because Isai Morales is obviously not someone you're usually going up against for roles because of different age, etc. Um, is that was that a much different kind of character than you were even going to play?

• 39:54Speaker 03

  I don't know because I don't know how I would have played it. I mean, I knew roughly what we were doing in prep and and stuff. And yeah, it probably was fairly different. And of course, it would be fairly different because we're different people. I like what he did. I thought he did a great job. Um, yeah, it probably would have been very different. Um, but I think those movies also evolve a lot throughout shooting, the process that Chris and Tom have. They it's not like it's not like there was ever a solid script and a version of that character that you'd go that was what it was gonna be. You know, it it it very it's very fluid in terms of how they create, so so it's very difficult to say what would have been.

• 40:33Josh Horowitz?

  Is that a continuing conversation? I feel like you are inevitably obviously going to work with Tom. He clearly is a fan of yours. Are you?

• 40:40Speaker 03

  I would love to. I would love to. Um, I haven't spoken to him for a little while. Um, but you know, I I I love that. I love Top Gear. I think. He's a, what's he making at the moment? He's gonna do.

• 40:50Josh Horowitz?

  He's doing the the Inaritu movie, yeah.

• 40:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. That that I'm hyped for, because I'm like, oh, yeah, let's see. Let's see that. Let's like. Um, I think that's an interesting and and and inspired choice for him to go make that film. So, yeah, I'm I'm a I'm a fan. Hopefully, at one point, we'll do something together, maybe.

• 41:07Josh Horowitz?

  Did you catch up on um on the other side of uh the comic book world? Did you catch up on Deadpool Deadpool and Wolverine?

• 41:13Speaker 03

  You know what? I haven't seen it yet, which I I'm probably the only person in the world not to have seen it. I've been going to see stuff. I just haven't seen that. Sometimes when a film's like so big and so popular right away, I kind of don't I kind of hold off and go and watch some of the smaller things that are out. And then I'm like, I'll see that down the road.

• 41:37Josh Horowitz?

  What's your favorite of your of your X-Men run? Do you have a favorite of the films, just from a character or just how it turned out perspective?

• 41:44Speaker 03

  Uh, Days of Future Past would be the favorite movie for me. I I I remember reading the script and being like, whoa. Partly, I mean, partly on a level of like, you know, joining both casts together. Um, meant that there were scenes where I'd be walking down, you know, the corridor of Cerebro, and I'd look over and Hugh Jackman would be there playing Wolverine. And, you know, I watched him play Wolverine when I was ten or eleven, watching the original X-Men movies. So I was like, this is crazy. Um, but then also. Yeah, I just felt like the story was really, really strong and emotional and it was fun to make. Like, yeah, just, yeah, I enjoyed, I enjoyed that movie.

• 42:27Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, I spoke to McAvoy recently and he also.

• 42:30Speaker 03

  You did?

• 42:31Josh Horowitz?

  He, he, well, he, he loved his first class as well, but I think selfishly from a character perspective, I think he really enjoyed what he got to do as Charles in Days of Future Past.

• 42:39Speaker 03

  Right, right, right, yeah. Yeah, first class was also magic in terms of making it. That was the first one for, for our group and so making all those new friends and everything, that, that holds a dear place in my heart as well. But I think, yeah, for me, I think I got slightly better character stuff in, in Days of Future Past as maybe as well.

• 43:01Josh Horowitz?

  You know, uh, before I let you go, I do want to mention, we've never on the podcast, because of all this giant gap, we never even talked about The Great, which I.

• 43:08Speaker 03

  Oh my gosh.

• 43:09Josh Horowitz?

  I know, like, we missed that entire era of Nick. Um, and what a fucking great show, what like amazing character, characters you got to play.

• 43:18Speaker 03

  Thanks, Ben.

• 43:20Josh Horowitz?

  Truly, truly. Uh, do you miss it? Do you miss that dialogue? That, what a delicious, delicious, um, set and, and scripts to utter as an actor, I would imagine.

• 43:30Speaker 03

  You know what? I do really miss The Great. Um, Tony McNamara's writing is so singular and the, yeah, the dialogue, the, like, everything about that show was so much fun. All the cast, working, working with Earl. Um, and I miss the character because honesty, it was like, it's very rare that you get a character that's so fully realized on the page, I think, like he is. And so ridiculous but fun to play. Um, and it was, it was, it was weird doing like the last scenes. The last day of shooting, Alan, like the last scenes together as those characters anyway, it was like, we're both really upset and I was like, and I knew I was gonna miss it deeply and I still do. And it was obviously the right thing to, um.

• 44:13Speaker 03

  To finish, but also it's it's it's rarely you get to play a character for some, you know, we did two, two and a half seasons, three seasons I played that character. So it's rarely you play a character for as long, but also have so much fun uh playing it. And and I do miss, yeah, I miss the dialogue. The other day, we did one of those interviews where it was like they they run through old lines and you have to guess what they're from. And instantly, like, the ones from the grave would come out and I'd be just dying with laughter because I'd, you know, I'd drive to to work in the car and I'd be learning my lines and I'd look at the page and I'd be like, this is so good. I'll never get to say anything like this ever again in life. Um, so yeah, I enjoyed that character a lot and and I'm working with Tony

• 44:55Speaker 03

  and Alan and all that team. So hopefully we'll get to do more down the road because, you know, I love what what they're creating.

• 45:02Josh Horowitz?

  Uh, hey, I have good news. In the past, you told me, which I never knew, that you were up for Harry Potter and in fact had multiple callbacks. They're casting, they're casting for the new Harry Potter, so it's not too late, Nick. Are you ready to to do it?

• 45:15Speaker 03

  I think it's about, I think, I think I can probably play eleven still. Um.

• 45:21Josh Horowitz?

  Never, never, never comment on the height, just like Harry.

• 45:24Speaker 03

  I was walking with some glasses and a scar on my head, I'd be like, hey, what's up? Um, I'm ready. Um, yeah, you know what? Which we, Chris Columbus, who obviously directed initially that, produced Nosferatu, so I got to spend time with him. Um, on that, it's so weird how everything, you kind of end up running into people. And and also made one of my all time favorite movies, Mrs. Doubtfire. So that was, that was fun and exciting to spend time with him. I'm a fan of his too. Um, but yes, yes, I'm ready to play Harry Potter. I'm just waiting for the phone.

• 45:58Josh Horowitz?

  Thank you for your service.

• 46:00Speaker 03

  Phone to ring.

• 46:01Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, yeah. Which is more likely, is it James Bond or Harry Potter, if you had to choose?

• 46:05Speaker 03

  Harry.

• 46:06Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, obviously.

• 46:06Speaker 03

  I can play eleven, eleven years old. There's no question about it.

• 46:11Josh Horowitz?

  All right, we're gonna end with the happy, sad, confused, profoundly random questions, Nick. Are you ready? Here we go.

• 46:16Speaker 03

  I'm ready, I'm ready, I'm ready.

• 46:17Josh Horowitz?

  Dogs or cats?

• 46:19Speaker 03

  Dogs.

• 46:20Josh Horowitz?

  What do you collect, if anything?

• 46:25Speaker 03

  Um, oh, oh, oh, what have I been collecting recently?

• 46:33Speaker 03

  Books.

• 46:36Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, we get it. You're smart. You read. Okay.

• 46:40Speaker 03

  Old, old, nearly empty tubes of toothpaste.

• 46:44Josh Horowitz?

  Better, better. That's what I was looking for. Um, what's the wallpaper on your phone?

• 46:50Speaker 03

  Oh, it's my, it's my, it's my wife and kids.

• 46:53Josh Horowitz?

  Very nice.

• 46:54Speaker 03

  It's, it's my, it's all, it's all my movie posters.

• 47:00Speaker 03

  It's my, it's my headshot.

• 47:03Speaker 03

  It's my, it's my resume. It's my CV. Nice getting Spanish.

• 47:09Josh Horowitz?

  Killing me softly. I get it. Okay. Um, last actor you were mistaken for?

• 47:15Speaker 03

  Um, oh, I feel like there was one the other day. Someone was talking to me and they were like, and I was like, oh, they think I'm someone completely different. I was just accepting the compliment. Um, I can't remember who it was.

• 47:29Josh Horowitz?

  That's okay.

• 47:32Speaker 03

  I get Sam Claflin a lot.

• 47:34Josh Horowitz?

  Do you? Okay, okay.

• 47:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, we've probably spoken about that. The local CAF in London, the local CAF in London, they were convinced of him for so many years that I, I, I went with it again. And, um, what was the movie he made with, with Emilia Clarke called?

• 47:47Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, yeah, yeah. I know exactly. Yeah, yeah.

• 47:49Speaker 03

  You know that one? They would always ask me about that. And I'd be like, oh, yeah, I'd just go with it. I'd be like, I was good in that. And yeah, great.

• 47:56Josh Horowitz?

  What's, what's the worst note a director has ever given you?

• 48:02Speaker 03

  Um.

• 48:08Speaker 03

  Act better. But it's also kind of the best note in some ways.

• 48:12Josh Horowitz?

  Does that help? Really?

• 48:14Speaker 03

  Can't, well, you mean, I mean, you can do what you want with that.

• 48:18Josh Horowitz?

  I suppose. Okay, okay. Uh, and finally, happy sad confused. An actor who makes you happy always. You see them on screen, you light up, you're having a good day.

• 48:27Speaker 03

  Oh, uh, Willem Dafoe.

• 48:30Josh Horowitz?

  I like it. Uh, what's a movie that always makes you sad?

• 48:33Speaker 03

  Always makes me happy.

• 48:36Speaker 03

  Um, a movie that always makes me sad. I'm glad, I'm glad that's the question, not an actor that always makes you sad.

• 48:44Josh Horowitz?

  Myself, when I see my, my face.

• 48:48Speaker 03

  Um, you know what? Uh, up, up.

• 48:51Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 48:52Speaker 03

  God.

• 48:52Josh Horowitz?

  That's a good barometer, whether you're a human being or not. Yeah.

• 48:55Speaker 03

  Oh, my gosh.

• 48:56Josh Horowitz?

  Yep. And very appropriate for our constant food conversations, a food that makes you confused. What food confuses you?

• 49:05Speaker 03

  Dried mango.

• 49:07Josh Horowitz?

  Really? Like too sweet? You'd rather just have the fresh mango? It's about the drying process?

• 49:12Speaker 03

  It's not confusing about that. It's, it's, it's because I always, whenever I eat it, I go, hmm, do I like him more than fresh mango?

• 49:21Speaker 03

  And I think I do, because often fresh mango isn't ripe enough. Or you've gone through the chaos, because I can't cut mangoes very well, the chaos of trying to get in there. And then when I'm eating the fresh mango, I'm going, hmm, is, is dried mango better? Because I didn't have to go through all this process and you're not as ripe or sweet as I think you should be. So it's a, it's a, it's a never ending battle inside my brain between fresh and dried mango.

• 49:47Josh Horowitz?

  All right, we did it. I think we had a semi-intelligent chat today.

• 49:50Speaker 03

  Almost.

• 49:51Josh Horowitz?

  Good to see you. Almost. We gave it a shot. It won't be five more years and we will see each other soon, hopefully in person. Congratulations on the bevy of riches this fall from Nick Holt.

• 50:02Speaker 03

  Thanks, man. Very good to see you. Sorry it's not personal, but.

• 50:05Josh Horowitz?

  Next time. No, I appreciate it.

• 50:09Speaker 04

  And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh.

• 50:28Speaker 06

  You've got your favorite blanket, a freshly poured drink, and a cold case burning a hole in your streaming queue. You're not just watching true crime, you're running the investigation from the comfort of your couch. Welcome to Murder She Watched, the podcast where we recap, dissect, and slightly. Overanalyze some of the best and craziest true crime documentaries on our favorite streamers. Did the spouse do it? Why is the shady neighbor wearing leather gloves in July? Why did this guy agree to be interviewed in this documentary? We ask the tough questions that you're often just screaming at your TV. So every week, we break down the twists, red herrings, and absurd documentaries that have kept you up all night.

• 51:12Speaker 06

  It's high drama, cozy vibes, and absolute couch detective energy. Grab your throw blanket and hit subscribe. Search Murder She Watched wherever you listen to podcasts and let's solve this thing together.