Ke Huy Quan, Vol. II

Much has changed for Ke Huy Quan since his last visit. He's now an Oscar winner, a part of the MCU, and with LOVE HURTS, at long last the lead of his own film. Ke joins Josh for another inspiring chat about his journey from THE GOONIES and INDIANA JONES to leaving the business to a triumphant comeback. UPCOMING EVENT! Maya Hawke -- February 10th in NYC -- Tickets here! SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS! Quince -- Go to Quince.com/happysadco for 365 day returns and free shipping! Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Happy Sad Confused patreon here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! We've got discount codes to live events, merch, early access, exclusive episodes, video versions of the podcast, and more! To watch episodes of Happy Sad Confused, subscribe to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Josh's youtube channel here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:28Speaker 01

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• 0:57Speaker 02

  In the last year or so, I've had time to reflect on everything that has happened. And I realized that my internal narrative is slowly changing. And it changed from, you know what? Nobody wants me. I'm not good enough.

• 1:13Speaker 02

  To, oh, I am good. I deserve to be here. I can be number one on the car sheet. I can be a leading man, which for the longest time, every script that I read, I would never picture myself as the leading man.

• 1:31Speaker 03

  Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins now.

• 1:38Josh Horowitz?

  Hey guys, Josh here. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. I'm so excited to say that you are about to listen or watch a returning guest coming back to the podcast. Key Kwe Kwan, who won an Oscar a few years ago for Everything Everywhere All at Once. As Key reminded me, I actually didn't know at the time. His first appearance on the podcast was his first appearance on a podcast. What an honor. And a honor that he came back. He is inspiring in all the best ways. His story of kind of giving up on acting, leaving acting for decades after being such a huge success as a child in Goonies and Indiana Jones Temple Doom, and then coming back with Everything Everywhere

• 2:22Josh Horowitz?

  and winning that Oscar. It's one of those special stories. This is a guest unlike any other unhappy Sad Confused. I know he's an inspiration to actors and artists and anybody with a dream out there. So, so thrilled that he came back promoting his new movie, Love Hurts, a fun action comedy with Key at the center of it. So that's the main event in just a second. Reminder, if you're in New York City and you want to see me do my thing in person, February 10th, it's just around the corner. I'm gonna be chatting with Maya Hawke, star of Stranger Things and so much more, including Inside Out 2, which we're gonna screen first. We're gonna show Inside Out 2 on the big screen. And then I'm gonna have a big old chat about her entire career.

• 3:06Josh Horowitz?

  Maya has never done the podcast and there's a lot to cover. I'm so excited for this. Information is in the show notes. Get your tickets now. Come on out, say hi to me and Maya. And there are a lot more exciting events coming up soon. If you want all the info on events, live events, discounts, everything, Patreon is your best friend, patreon.com/happy. Sad Confused, discount codes, autographed posters, merch, bonus content, it's all there for you. Support the podcast because it lets us make more of the podcast. Okay, here we go. Key Hui Kwan, if you don't come away from this inspired, there's something wrong with you. He is the best. Enjoy my chat with Key Hui Kwan. Well, guys, Key Hui Kwan is back. Excuse me, Academy Award winner, Key is back.

• 3:51Josh Horowitz?

  I'm sorry, Academy Award winner and action star, Key is back. A lot has changed in the two plus years since we chatted. He's back on the podcast. There's a lot to talk about. You of course know him from Everything Everywhere All at Once, Goonies, Indiana Jones, but he's also spreading the good word today for his front and center action romantic comedy, Love Hurts, perfect Valentine's Day movie. It brings Key back to the podcast where he belongs. It's good to see you, man.

• 4:19Speaker 02

  Josh, thank you for that beautiful, beautiful introduction. I love it.

• 4:25Josh Horowitz?

  It's always good to see you. We were saying when you hopped on the Zoom, we got a chance to see each other in person, which is always a treat. You were presenting at the Globes and then I caught you at one of those fancy parties. What's it like for you now to move through the mix? Because you did them all a couple of years back. We've seen the selfie collection. You've got the best selfie collection known to man. Do you feel at home in those environments now? I mean, you're an Academy member, you're an Academy winner. What's it like to move through that world right now for you?

• 4:55Speaker 02

  You know, the first time was incredible. I was so overwhelmed and also blown away by by everything, by everything that was going on. You hear me?

• 5:08Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, all good.

• 5:11Speaker 02

  And it was my first time and what was incredible is like, you know, for so many years, I've always wanted to be in the room with all those people that I admire and love. And as always, you know, I'm a kid in those rooms. I can't help myself but run around and introduce myself and give all those people that I really love a hug and tell, you know, basically shower them with all my love and just tell them how much they mean to me. Having gone through that, this time, I'm a little bit more comfortable. But still, every time you think about, every time you get on the red carpet

• 5:50Speaker 02

  and you see all these beautiful faces, beautiful dresses and tux and all that, and the energy is incredible. And you really, no matter how, what you were feeling before you step on the red carpet, once when you're on the red carpet, you just, you know, you just can't help yourself to be really like excited because it's amazing. It's truly an amazing to be part of all of that.

• 6:16Josh Horowitz?

  100%. Yeah, I've been privileged to do these crazy carpets for years, but if you lose that sense of wonder and excitement, then what are you even doing in this business? Is there anybody, I mentioned your fun selfies. I think we all lived vicariously through you because we really connect with like your excitement about being around these folks that you admire, that we admire. Has there anybody that made you nervous to go up to and say, would you pose for a selfie with me?

• 6:43Speaker 02

  Uh, yeah, I, I was nervous going up to Martin Scorsese. I was, you know, I, I've been, I've been a fan of his for the longest time. Christopher Nolan is another one. I took a selfie with him, but I didn't share it. We had a wonderful chat and I love him and I love his movies and, and when I asked for a selfie, he said, he said, has anyone ever said no to you?

• 7:14Josh Horowitz?

  This was my question, yes.

• 7:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, and, and, and I, and, and, you know, and I was really happy and I, I was also nervous. I said, no. And he says, okay, then we took a selfie. Uh, but then, but then later on that night I realized, oh, I mean, he was just being very generous. And, and just out of respect to him, which I have tremendous amount of respect for. I, I didn't post that. So I was nervous Scorsese, Christopher Nolan, but honestly, everybody has been so kind. Uh, every time I go up to them and ask for selfie, they, you know, they all said yes. So, so I, I do have a big collection.

• 7:54Josh Horowitz?

  Have any of, have, have any of these moments, these connections led to, I would imagine some of them lead to, lead to meetings and discussions about possible work. I mean, there is some kind of kismet, we'll get to love hurts in a bit, but who gave you your Oscar but Ariana DeBose? So that's, that's, there's something in the universe there. But I guess in meeting all of these people, does it, are you seeing the fruits of just connecting with people the last couple of years?

• 8:19Speaker 02

  Well, you know, it, it's always nice to meet them, um, and, and to meet them in person and to have, you know, kind of a, a sweet conversation with. A, a lot of times when you're in these events, uh, you don't get to, you know, chat for a long time because there's so much things going on. People are always constantly moving. So just to have that short exchange is very memorable, uh, and a lot of times, and especially. During the entire award season, we we get to see, you know, the same people over and over again, and that becomes the family for that season. And every season, they have a different family. Uh, but it's, you know, but we do run into each other again, and sometimes we reminisce.

• 9:01Speaker 02

  Uh, and sometimes, you know, for example, like, you know, you mentioned Ariana DeBose. Uh, when she presented me with my uh, Oscar, we've seen each other. Uh, we run into each other i- i- in events a few times. And I I told her, I said, I would love to work with you. Uh, and and little did I know that that opportunity would one day come. So what, you know, when they, when they presented Love Hurts uh, to me, and we were, you know, asked, we were like, you know, wondering who could play Rose. And when her name popped up, I said, yes, yes, please, please make it happen. Pay her whatever she wants.

• 9:44Speaker 02

  Uh, so it wa- it wa- it was such a wonderful, wonderful uh, opportunity to work with somebody that I really love.

• 9:51Josh Horowitz?

  There there is a treat in like seeing the trailer for this, and it's like Academy Award winner Ki Hui Kwan, Academy Award winner Ariana DeBose. I mean, come on. How awesome is that?

• 10:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, two, two Oscar winners in an action movie?

• 10:04Josh Horowitz?

  Love it. Sold. How, how, how close is the Academy Award to you right now? Is it, does it have a place of honor in your home, Ki?

• 10:15Speaker 02

  Uh, you know what? It's at a very special place right now. Uh, I think I can share this. Um, the Academy Museum reached out and asked if I would be, would I, uh, ask if I would consider uh, loaning my Oscar so that they can, they can have it on display at the museum. Uh, and I said yes right away. Uh, so right now, it is sitting at the Academy Museum, and I hope that people will go to the museum and check out all the wonderful, wonderful stuff they have there. And then, and then hopefully they'll see my Oscar there. Um, and when they see it, I hope that, you know, whatever dreams that they have that hasn't happened yet,

• 11:01Speaker 02

  uh, will keep them, you know, will keep those dreams alive.

• 11:05Josh Horowitz?

  Well, I will say that speech, and I rewatched it again before our conversation.

• 11:10Josh Horowitz?

  It's an immediate all-timer Oscar speech. I mean, from you, you know, talking to your mom through the screen, saying, "This is the American dream." Again, everybody watching, I think, really connected with you through the whole season, and that was such an amazing culmination. Do you have distinct memories of giving the speech? Or did you blackout? Like, what's your memory of going through that experience?

• 11:33Speaker 02

  When, you know, when, when I remember vividly when Ariana DeBose and, and Troy Kertz, Kurtser, walked out with the envelope and, and when they opened it and announced, I felt like I was holding my breath, and I've been holding my breath for a long time.

• 11:49Speaker 02

  And when, when Ariana announced it,

• 11:53Speaker 02

  I was so overwhelmed with emotion. And, and I walked up on stage, gave them a hug, gave a speech, and walked backstage and had no idea what I just said.

• 12:04Josh Horowitz?

  Right, yeah.

• 12:06Speaker 02

  It, it was, it was, it was a blur. And I just kept, and I remember, you know, asking the stage manager, I said, "Was the speech okay?" Well, I didn't say anything stupid, did I? But it was, it was so wonderful. And, and yeah, and, and my mom watching it at home made it even more special to me because that night, she got so many phone calls from her friends congratulating her. And it was, it was a phone call that, you know, that she got 40 years ago when I, when Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom came out, and all her friends called her and congratulated her.

• 12:50Speaker 02

  And she waited 40 years, just as I did, to get those same phone calls again. So it was, it was, it was, it made it even more special. And it will always be one of the most, the best and most memorable nights of my life.

• 13:05Josh Horowitz?

  So obviously, on our last conversation, we talked about a, a little bit about your incredible journey and, and, you know, the decades you were away from acting before coming back. So like, in the last couple of years, you've had some really great opportunities. This is a big one. And I would imagine there's, I mean, you tell me, was there a transition point where, I would imagine when people asked you what you did, Before Everything Everywhere came out, maybe the answer was something more along the lines of I was an actor as opposed to I am an actor. Like, has your, has your answer kind of changed of what you are, who you are in the last three years since Everything Everywhere?

• 13:42Speaker 02

  Yes, Josh, that's a great question. You know, for a long time, I would get recognized on the streets and, you know, fans would come up and say, hey, are you the actor in Indiana Jones? Or are you the actor in The Goonies? Or you look, you look really familiar.

• 14:02Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 14:03Speaker 02

  And, and oftentimes, you know, when you have to, when you travel and you, you know, you have to fill out the, the custom papers.

• 14:11Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 14:11Speaker 02

  And, and there's always that one line where they ask you, what's your occupation? And I would always hesitate to put actor.

• 14:23Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 14:23Speaker 02

  Because I was working most of the time, so I felt like a hypocrite if I would have put actor in that, in, on that line. It just didn't feel, you know, true. So I would always hesitate and I always have problem. But ever since I came back since, you know, since 2000, when I made that decision, to now, you know, I'm, I'm so happy. When I fill out those forms, I go straight to the occupation and I proudly write actor.

• 14:54Josh Horowitz?

  All capitals, excellent, underline.

• 14:57Speaker 02

  Yes, yes, yes. And, and I, and I deal with a smile and I deal with, with, with a lot of, you know, a pride. That, that is something that, that I didn't expect.

• 15:14Josh Horowitz?

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• 15:58Josh Horowitz?

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• 16:43Josh Horowitz?

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• 17:27Josh Horowitz?

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• 18:11Josh Horowitz?

  It actually makes me look like I know what I'm talking about when it comes to fashion. And that is a miracle. So give the gift of quality this holiday season. Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. It's now available in Canada and the UK too. And when Quince asks where you've heard about them, you know what to do. Let them know it was happy, sad, confused. That's the best way to support our show.

• 18:42Josh Horowitz?

  All right, so let's talk about your life in acting since then.

• 18:47Josh Horowitz?

  Because it's a big moment to go through what you went through and to suddenly go from having no opportunities to choices. Suddenly you're probably turning things down, hopefully getting some interesting material. So there must have been a lot of discussion among you, friends, family internally of what do I want? What do I need? What do I do with this gift? What was your philosophy about what kind of roles you wanted to go towards after the Oscar win?

• 19:17Speaker 02

  You know, it was such an interesting period for me. Because I spent so much time trying to persuade filmmakers and producers that I'm right for a role. And all of a sudden, after the Oscars, I was, you know, I was meeting filmmakers that I love, producers that I love. And they would come and they said, we have this script and we think you'd be perfect for it. And and all of a sudden I said, wait, so you mean I don't have to audition? I this is not like a me trying to convince you? And and it was it was like, it was really weird to me and and it took a little time to adjust.

• 19:59Speaker 02

  And then all of a sudden, uh, because of there was so much outpour of love and support. The one thing that was constantly on my mind was that no matter what I was gonna do next, I didn't want to disappoint the people who supported me. Uh, uh, so they were on my mind the whole time and I was, I was having a difficult time choosing. Uh, and all, yeah, cuz I've never been in that situation where I have choices.

• 20:29Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 20:29Speaker 02

  Uh, uh, so it it was very foreign to me. And I remember, uh, I was, I was at an event. It was a Time One Hundred event where Drew Barrymore and I presented Steven Spielberg with a very special, uh, award. And and I was sitting next to him, um, and we chatted and he says, Key, how are you doing? He was so happy for me. He says, Steven, you know, uh, and I didn't know how to tell him, you know? And I said, I'm not doing so great. And he says, why? And I says, you know, I don't know what I wanna do next.

• 21:06Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 21:06Speaker 02

  Uh, and he was very sweet. He says, okay, uh, when we get back to L A, let's have lunch. And we did, uh, and that was when I brought up Love Hurts. Uh, cuz it was, it was offered to me. Love Hurts was offered to me. I read it, I loved it. And I didn't think I was right for it. So I passed and it was right, you know, around the time during the Oscar season. So I read it very quickly. I loved it and I remember, oh, this is great, but why are they offering me this role? Did, you know, I I look nothing like him. Uh, so I passed the first time and and thank God they were very persistent.

• 21:47Speaker 02

  They came back the second time and I still feel like it wasn't right to me. Uh, and I passed the second time and the. Third time, that's when I asked Steven. And I said, there's this movie that, you know, that Universal Studios is making. Uh, there's this character, it's the lead, he's an action hero, but I don't see myself as that. And I, I kind of pitch him the character and I pitch him the story. And he says, he, it sounds great. You should do it. And he encouraged me to say yes. And then I left that lunch and I, and I, and I called my agent right away. I said, can you please get me the meeting? I want to go in there and I want to meet with the producers.

• 22:31Speaker 02

  David Leitch, Kelly McCormick, Guy Donella, and our director, Jojo Usapio. And when I, I met with them, uh, and they had like, you know, this like, you know, presentation slides of me in costume, in character as Marvin Gable. And I'm sitting there and I'm looking at it, I go, wow. And then all of a sudden, it, it dawned on me that, one, I, all, all these years I've been conditioned to think that an action star needs to look a certain way. Because I grew up watching and loving action movies

• 23:15Speaker 02

  from Stallone, Schwarzenegger, Jackie Chan, you know, Steven Seagal, Jason Statham. And so I, I never see myself in that. And all of a sudden, in that room, my perspective started to change. And I looked at, and I remember looking at David Leitch, thinking, Hugh is a really good and successful Hollywood director. And if he can see me as Marvin Gable, how come I can't? And all of a sudden, from that moment on, I started to look at it from a different lens.

• 23:53Speaker 02

  And and and thank God, I am so, so happy that that that one Stephen encouraged me to do this. And and and second, you know, the producers didn't give up on me. Luckily, they didn't take my advice and go and stay.

• 24:12Josh Horowitz?

  All right. They didn't take no for an answer. What was that? Was that? I'm just curious without betraying confidence. Like, was there a broader piece of advice that Stephen gave you? Was he basically saying, don't overthink it? Like, you can like, I mean, that unlocked something for you in kind of approaching roles now in this next phase of your career?

• 24:30Speaker 02

  The overall was, you know, I told him, you know, the feelings and the struggles and the and the anxiety that I had about how, you know, I really don't want to disappoint all of those people, all those wonderful fans that that that that were rooting for me. And and and Stephen said, key, you know, if you do it from your heart, if you love it, and if you give all your best, and you do it from a place, from a genuine place, you know, they will appreciate it. Whether they like the movie or not, but they will appreciate what you're doing. And I listened, and that was such a great advice. Like, don't do it for anything else, but do it for, you

• 25:14Speaker 02

  know, do it for yourself. And as long as you believe in it, believe in the character, believe in the movie, then you should go for it. And that's how and once when I heard that and once when I said yes to Love Hurts, I told our producers, I said, please, get me the best action team possible. And of course, 87 North knows a lot about action movies. And they put together this absolutely incredible action team. And we started training right away for three months before before I set foot on on on on set.

• 25:53Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, and for those who don't know, I mean, there is a degree of background way back when you obviously were, you know, a fight choreographer, you helped with Corey Ewan in some films like so there is that aspect to your life. That being said, it's one thing to do that, you know, 25 years ago, and it's another to like, do it in practice as, you know, man in his 50s, like, that's, this is, this is a challenge. I mean, did you? I mean, I guess, talk to me a little bit about what it was like physically to go through this. Was it what you anticipated? Was it harder?

• 26:25Speaker 02

  Oh, I mean, you know, that was definitely on, on, you know, on my mind the whole time. Here's the interesting thing. Right after Indiana Jones, I got, I got a little training to do the action sequence in Temple of Doom. I came back to LA and my brother and I, we fell in love with, with action movies. And we started learning martial arts. And at the same time, I fell in love watching all these incredible Hong Kong action movies from Jackie Chan, Sammo Hung, Yuan Bell. And so after I studied Taekwondo for many years. And when I got myself a black belt, I thought, okay, now I'm ready. I'm out of school.

• 27:10Speaker 02

  I'm going to go and be an action star, just like Jackie Chan and all those wonderful people that I admire. Cause I really love this genre. So I, I was young and I was ready. And little did I know that nobody was interested in making me an action hero. And all the knowledge, all the skills that I've acquired.

• 27:33Speaker 02

  I had to put them aside because they were, they were no use to me.

• 27:37Speaker 02

  And, and, and luckily, you know, after I graduated from, from college. I began using some of those skills because I got behind the camera and I got into action choreography.

• 27:48Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 27:48Speaker 02

  And a lot of times, not only was I, did I help choreograph some of those sequences. But it also fall, the responsibility, ability fall on me to train the actors how to throw a punch. How to, how to throw a kick and to get them familiarize themselves with, with the, with the action. So I got to do a little bit of that. But it's not, it's not the same as stepping in front of the camera and doing all out. So I trained myself mentally. I think I can do everything. Uh, but it was an interesting process when I finally was there at the gym trying out all these

• 28:29Speaker 02

  different moves. Uh, and, and the team in the beginning, they were very, they were a little worried as well too, because I am, you know, a fifty something year old man. Uh, so they were, they started something that was a bit easy, just, you know, punches and very simple kicks here and there. And I would look at it and I go, can we try something more? Can we try a more difficult kick? Uh, like a jump back spin kick. And they go, oh, you really? You want to try it? I said, let me try. And we would try it and, and surprisingly, like, it felt good that I, that I can do it. It could be, you know, it's really muscle memory. Uh, but also to get my body in shape to do it even better.

• 29:14Speaker 02

  So that was the process is, okay, I know the moves. I remember, uh, the technique. But then how do I get myself higher? How do I get myself faster? How do I do it with, with a lot more power? Uh, when we did it, you know, Hong Kong directors always love to say, no power, no power. So you have to do with more power. So it's really getting my muscles to the shape where I can throw a punch with a lot of force behind it or do a kick. Uh, and, and, and it, it was hard. It was definitely hard. It was challenging. Uh, I'm quite proud, but at the same time, I would wake up the next day feeling very sore.

• 29:58Josh Horowitz?

  Uh, you could imagine. It's all, it's all on the screen. You feel it, watching it. And, and I will say, you were talking about like action stars and the, the folks that were, were, you know, the same age group. We, I grew up with the Arnold's and, and the Sly's, et cetera. And I love those guys, but I, I think of this on, on the flip side of like folks that. I really appreciate like, like a Jackie Chan, a Keanu, a Harrison Ford. I love those folks because you feel the punches they take as much as the punches they give. And I think that's what lets you emotionally connect with an action performer. And that's, that's what I got from watching you in this is like, you've got the moves, but I'm also, I'm feeling it. I'm feeling what you're feeling because I'm connecting with you as a, as a performer.

• 30:41Speaker 02

  That, that's why it's so important from the very beginning. And I, I told, you know, the director and all producers and I said, if I'm going to do this, I want to do all the, the, the fights myself. I'm not talking about stunts. Stunts to me is falling off a building or getting hit by a car or being set on fire. That is a very, very specific skill. And, and those stunt guys put their lives, you know, on the line to make us actors look great. So I will never say I do stunts. But what I can do really well are fights.

• 31:13Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 31:14Speaker 02

  And, and you know, and I'm kind of old school. Meaning, I remember, you know, watching Jackie Chan Sammo Hung movies where you can see clearly that it's them up on the screen doing it. It's not a stunt double.

• 31:29Josh Horowitz?

  Yep.

• 31:29Speaker 02

  So once we see that, there was a lot more at stake. And second, in order to make a fight look good, you can't fake it. You have to, if you're going to throw a punch, you really have to throw a punch with a lot of force behind it. The audience has such a sophisticated eye now. If you just, you know, if you're just doing the movement, they, they, they get it right away and they, and they won't be, you know, they won't be emotionally involved.

• 31:58Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 31:59Speaker 02

  So, so every fight and, and it was hard because it's not easy fighting Moshe Lynch.

• 32:07Josh Horowitz?

  I believe you.

• 32:08Speaker 02

  And and and you know, and and I was scared for myself most of the time, you know, uh, he's, he's a tough guy, but he's a very sweet man. Uh, he was, he was very careful and he was very athletic. Uh, and again, also Daniel Wu, who played my brother,

• 32:23Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 32:24Speaker 02

  who, you know, is very familiar with Hong Kong action. And that's what this movie is. The action is kind of an homage to the Hong Kong, the eighties Hong Kong action movie. And he knew the rhythm, he knew the moves and and I could not have asked for a perfect dance partner uh, to do, to do this movie with.

• 32:43Josh Horowitz?

  I I love what you say about approaching them as fights and and stunts are one thing, fights are another. I I think of your old comrade Harrison Ford, whenever somebody asks him about doing stunts, he says, I don't do stunts. I do, I do physical acting. And that's basically what you're saying.

• 32:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, because you know, I mean, I I love, I I have, I have tremendous respect for stunt guys, stunt people, because they, you know, they literally, they, they, they, they spent a lot of time training and every stunt they do, there was a lot of danger to that.

• 33:12Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 33:13Speaker 02

  Uh, so I would never say I do stunts, but you know, but when I say fights, you know, it's punches and kicks and falling onto the ground, selling a punch, reacting to a punch, all of that.

• 33:31Speaker 00

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• 34:32Josh Horowitz?

  Can we reminisce actually way back when on your early experience with stunts? You talked about Temple of Doom, but I referenced working with Corey Ewan. You famously did work on the first X-Men film. You were brought in, as I understand it, to help with the Mystique Wolverine sequence in the film. So this is Hugh. It's so funny to think about this now. 25 years later, he's still playing Wolverine. I mean, my God, amazing. So did you help teach Hugh Jackman how to Wolverine? I mean, this was his first go at that kind of performance, that kind of physical acting.

• 35:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, we were brought on specifically for that big finale fight between Wolverine and Mystique. We were there for, I think, two months. We choreographed and trained Hugh Jackman and also Rebecca Romaine.

• 35:25Josh Horowitz?

  Romaine, yeah.

• 35:26Speaker 02

  And yeah, and they were great. Yes, I did train him. And you know, and I haven't seen Hugh Jackman in since then. So recently, when Kevin Feige got his star on Hollywood Walk of Fame, I saw him again there. And I told him about, you know, about the experience. And he was so nice. He remembered everything. He was just the gentleman that I remembered. And we had a wonderful little reunion.

• 35:58Josh Horowitz?

  Did you remember him like taking to it well? Because I remember he was also famously a replacement for another actor. He was kind of thrown into the deep end on that film. Did that come naturally?

• 36:07Speaker 02

  From the very beginning, from day one, when we showed him the moves, it didn't take much, he didn't need much training. You know, he has this incredible physical ability. He just needed to learn the moves. So my job was to show him the choreography. But I mean, every punch he threw, every move that he did, it was just perfect. He was, yeah, he was born to do it. That's why, that's why I look so great. So I won't take credit for that. That's him. We just take credit for the choreography.

• 36:40Josh Horowitz?

  And now 25 years later, how crazy is life when you both are technically now part of the MCU?

• 36:46Speaker 02

  Part of the MCU, connected by, you know, by, by one man, you know, I, I met Kevin, a young, a very young Kevin Feige.

• 36:54Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. So he was also on the set. Yeah. What do you remember about Kevin?

• 36:58Speaker 02

  I remember when, when Corey Yuan and I, and we have two more assistant action choreographers. And we were walking, we were showing the entire casting crew. What we, what we choreographed, you know, the, the entire secrets. And they brought everybody and the set had like 200 people. And it was me and another guy and we're walking the moves slowly. At first to show Ryan Singer and the producer, Lowen Shula Donner. And I remember seeing Kevin Feige to the side. And he told me later that, that he was with the writer and he kept telling the writers, he says, hey, guy, guy, that is short round from Indiana Jones.

• 37:44Speaker 02

  That is data. And, uh, and he was, you know, he was having a, a fun time. And, and, and sure enough, you know, only a few years later, he became the head of Marvel Studios. Yeah.

• 37:55Josh Horowitz?

  And, and he, correct me if I'm wrong, he was the first, like official offer, the first call you got for an acting gig after Everything Everywhere came out. He calls you, you're in his, you're in your car. That must've been quite a moment to get the call from Kevin Feige. Come join us.

• 38:13Speaker 02

  You know, before I got the call, here's the interesting part. We attended an event for Dick Donner. The Academy was honoring him. And, and Dick Donner was there. Kevin Feige, a, a bunch of other people. And I remember afterwards, Jeff Cohen and I, uh, we ran into Kevin. At, at, um, at, at a bar. And we started chatting, you know, we're just kind of reminiscing about, you know, what, you know, the work that we all did on X-Men and also the incredible work that he was doing. And I, at that time I wasn't an actor yet.

• 38:50Speaker 02

  But I remember thinking, as I was hearing him talking, I said, God, wouldn't it be wonderful if one day he calls me and puts me in one of his movies? Or even, you know, asked me to be a part of the MCU family in in any capacity. I would have done it as, you know, as as just anybody behind the camera or in front of camera. And I remember thinking about that, uh, that that thought that that entered my mind. And sure enough, uh, I think it was just like maybe two years later, uh, that I got that call. So when that, when that call happened, it was, it was just so memorable because I, I, I wanted that call to happen for a long time.

• 39:30Speaker 02

  Uh, and honestly, and, and, you know, playing all boys in Loki was, was just incredible.

• 39:38Josh Horowitz?

  Uh, what are the chances? I know you can't spill anything if you knew anything, but look, you've worked with the Russo's. By the way, I've seen the Electric State. I'm one of the few privileged.

• 39:46Speaker 02

  Um, I haven't seen it.

• 39:49Josh Horowitz?

  It's good stuff. It's good stuff. So you've worked with the Russo's. They're coming back to the MCU. You're in the MCU. We gotta get another appearance, right? Are you hopeful?

• 39:59Speaker 02

  I, I hope so. I mean, honestly, uh, uh, you know, fingers crossed. I love those movies so much. What the Russo Brothers has done for the Avengers is absolutely incredible. I'm so happy that they're back again for two more movies. Uh, fingers crossed. I, I, I don't know. I really don't know. Uh, but, um, I, I know, but one thing that I'm sure is whatever story, whatever characters they bring back, it's gonna be epic.

• 40:28Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. Is there, is there a character you'd love to see Ob interact with if you come back?

• 40:35Speaker 02

  All of them. I, you know, Spider-Man, Spider-Man. I love Spider-Man. I love Doctor Strange.

• 40:44Speaker 02

  I mean, honestly, it's hard to pick. I'm just I'm just more on names because those two names just popped in my head. But honestly, I love the entire universe and it's so vast with so many, so many characters. Oh, how about Shang Chi? I would love to interact with Shang Chi.

• 40:59Josh Horowitz?

  Crazy.

• 41:00Speaker 02

  Or maybe if they do a sequel.

• 41:02Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 41:02Speaker 02

  Maybe if they do a sequel, I would love to to to to be a part of that. I got a chance to work with Destin Daniel Cretton, by the way, on American Born Chinese.

• 41:10Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, yeah, he's doing the next Spider-Man film as well. Very exciting. So, um. Again, since we've talked, a lot's happened. Uh, we saw Harrison pick up the whip one more time. I really, I I enjoy Dial of Destiny. I thought it was such a such a great send off for him. Um, and I remember we we talked about at the time and there was a bit, I feel like in the fandom, like excitement about you coming back. Potentially a short round in some capacity. Have you? Is that still a hope? I mean, obviously Harrison's done playing that role. It seems pretty firm about that, but. And I don't know where Kathy Kennedy and Disney is right now. But do you feel like in your heart of hearts, there's still a story to be told with Short Round?

• 41:52Speaker 02

  Yes, I think so. I would love to revisit that character. Uh, I love that character and the fans love that character. I mean, this is, you know, this is entirely up to Kathy Kennedy. She's been doing so well with the whole Star Wars franchise. And and what she has done for Indy Five. Uh, I mean, I don't know. That is, that is, you know, uh, something that I can only hope, but, um. I'll I'll keep waiting by the phone.

• 42:20Josh Horowitz?

  Have you have you ever met, I assume back in the day you met Kathy, but have you met Kathy in recent years?

• 42:25Speaker 02

  Yes, yes, I have. I went, I I I saw, I saw her again at Indy Five premiere. Uh, I, you know, it was, it was a nice, I went to the premiere. It was such a nice. Reunion because George Lucas was there, Frank Marshall, who produced, you know, all these indie movies was there, Kathy, of course. John Williams, uh, it was, you know, every time I I see them, I I have. You know, it it just puts a smile on my face because that was my first movie family. And and in a lot of ways, I love acting. I love this business. I love this whole industry. I love movies is because of them.

• 43:03Josh Horowitz?

  And of course, I, you know, I, I feel like I always have to bring it up because people always are talking about it. I mean, they say Goonies never die, but really Goonies sequel rumors never die. Because I feel like every year there's another kind of thing like, it sounds like it might actually happen. Like, have you, obviously we lost the great Dick Donner just a few years ago. And that probably changed potentially what was going to happen, if anything was going to happen. But have you heard actual, real murmurings of something more with Goonies in the last couple of years? Or is it all just in the ether?

• 43:35Speaker 02

  You know, it's interesting. It, it never fails. Every couple of years or so, there's always a Goonies rumor. I remember just recently, there was one that says, we're doing a sequel with Steven Spielberg directing, and all the kids are back. And I know nothing about that, so I know that, that, that couldn't be true.

• 43:56Speaker 02

  You know, it, it's something that I'm sure Warner Brothers wants to do it. All of us, all of us wants to do it. But it's such a beloved movie. I, I'm going to leave it up to Spielberg. I mean, you know, he's the man that, that, you know, obviously without him, there's no Goonies. And unfortunately, we lost, you know, the captain of our ship, Dick Donner.

• 44:19Speaker 02

  But I, who knows? I'm, I'm, I'll, I'll be there if they have a script.

• 44:24Josh Horowitz?

  Have they, have you seen a script in the last five, 10 years? I'm sure over the decades, there have been story pitches or whatever. But have you seen anything in the last five, 10 years?

• 44:32Speaker 02

  No, I have not. I have not. But, but I, what I do know is that it's not like they didn't, they're not trying. In the last 40 years, Warner Brothers has tried. We've hired numerous writers and there, there are multiple scripts out there. But, but somehow, I, I guess Spielberg feels that none of them kind of lives up to, to the original.

• 44:58Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, I know, obviously, you'll come back, but the question is, are you going to convince your lawyer, Jeff Cohen, AKA Chunk? Is Chunk gonna come out? Is he gonna come out of retirement to act?

• 45:08Speaker 02

  That's a great question. I don't know. I mean, he has, he is so successful as an entertainment attorney. I don't know. I would love, you know, he's, we are, we are really good friends. We see each other all the time. And one of the things that every time I see him, and it never fails, is he always makes me laugh.

• 45:27Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 45:27Speaker 02

  Uh, he's such a funny guy. And I would, I would, oh, my gosh, if he comes, if he comes out of, you know, retirement from acting, that, that would be amazing.

• 45:41Josh Horowitz?

  So we alluded to some of the, the projects. Obviously, Love Hurts is the big one for Valentine's Day. Electric State is a ginormous one on Netflix. Everybody's gonna really enjoy that.

• 45:49Speaker 02

  By the way, by the way,

• 45:50Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 45:51Speaker 02

  We, I had a really nice Goonies reunion with Sean Astin.

• 45:56Josh Horowitz?

  How could I not mention that? Love Hurts, of course. That made my heart sore. Everyone's gonna be so thrilled to see that.

• 46:02Speaker 02

  He plays my boss in The Real Estate Agent.

• 46:06Josh Horowitz?

  Yes.

• 46:06Speaker 02

  Uh, his name is Cliff.

• 46:08Josh Horowitz?

  Was that your idea? Whose idea?

• 46:11Speaker 02

  Uh, well, both. Uh, when, when, when his name, we were thinking about, again, you know, like, who can play Cliff? Uh, and, and there were a bunch of names. And when I heard Sean, I reached out to him right away, because I thought it was such a great idea. Uh, and honestly, you know, the last time that we had any meaningful scene together was, you know, was 40 years ago.

• 46:33Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 46:33Speaker 02

  Uh, and when it came to Winnipeg, where we were shooting the movie, and we had that, you know, we did that scene together. Oh, my gosh, it was, what a wonderful, you know, trip down memory lane. All of a sudden, even though we were surrounded by cameras and, and, and the entire crew. All of a sudden, just being with him and and sharing a scene with him immediately brought me back to nineteen eighty-five.

• 47:00Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 47:01Speaker 02

  When he was Mikey and I was Data, uh, and we were rehearsing, we were running over, you know, running, rehearsing lines, uh, and I I felt like a kid again. Uh, and I think the Goonies fans.

• 47:15Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, yeah.

• 47:15Speaker 02

  Are gonna are gonna love his character, one. I think he steals every scene he's in, uh, and and and second, uh, the the Goonies fans, especially, they're gonna love to see Data and Mikey up on that screen again.

• 47:29Josh Horowitz?

  Totally. I can't believe I forgot to mention, good call. Um, so has the success and the new opportunities kind of like silenced the self doubt that comes in anybody's head, especially actors, they always feel it. I mean, you've won every conceivable award, you're working with some greats, you're number one on the call sheet, you're doing all this great work.

• 47:47Josh Horowitz?

  Does that quiet the part of your brain that says it could still all go away? Or are you able?

• 47:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes, yes, yes. I mean, you know, of course, you know, there there is that, you know, there is that thought as well, too. But what's incredible is that, uh,

• 48:03Speaker 02

  the last couple of years, I've I've realized

• 48:08Speaker 02

  that my internal narrative has changed.

• 48:12Speaker 02

  You know, my personal life hasn't changed. I still live in the same house, I still drive the same car, I don't have an assistant. So nothing about my personal life has changed. Of course, you know, the big change i- is my professional life. I'm, you know, I'm meeting a lot more people, there are a lot more opportunities now, uh, and and and since, you know, uh, in the last year or so, I've had time to reflect on everything that has happened. And I realized that my internal narrative is slowly changing. And it changed from, you know what, nobody wants me, I'm not good enough, uh, to, oh, you know, I I I.

• 48:54Speaker 02

  I am good. I I I deserve to to to be here. I I I I can be number one on the cause sheet. I can be a leading man, which for the longest time, every script that I read, I would never picture myself as the leading man. I would always look at all the side characters. Is it which one am I right for? Because it was such a, it was such a, a, a, um, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, automatically seeing that, oh, don't even look at the leading character because that's not for you. Uh, so that internal narrative has changed. Uh, where now when I look at the script, I do look at the leading man care, you know, the leading character.

• 49:39Speaker 02

  Oh, I can play this. I can't, I can be this. I can be that. And and it's an incredible feeling. It's very, uh, I wish, honestly, who, you know, to all the, to all the fans out there, if they're, if they're doubting themselves, I really hope that they can have this shift in, in, in, in what, in, in, in how they think of themselves.

• 50:00Josh Horowitz?

  Uh, the time has flown by, but I'm going to end with the happy, sad, confused, profoundly random questions for you, Key. Are you ready? Some rapid fire?

• 50:06Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 50:07Josh Horowitz?

  Are you a dog or cat person?

• 50:09Speaker 02

  Dog. I'm allergic to cats, unfortunately. Yeah.

• 50:14Josh Horowitz?

  Do you collect anything? What do you collect?

• 50:17Speaker 02

  Collect?

• 50:18Josh Horowitz?

  Collect. Do you collect anything?

• 50:20Speaker 02

  Oh, no, do I collect anything? Uh,

• 50:24Speaker 02

  oh, that's, do I collect anything? Let me see what I collect. I I don't.

• 50:32Speaker 02

  I try to keep it simple. Um, um, no, no, I don't. But I, it's not, it's not, it's, you know, I have like Funko Pops. I collect Funko Pops. I have that. You know, I, I, I, I love posters, movie posters. Uh, but I can't say I, yeah, no.

• 50:50Josh Horowitz?

  Are you a video game person? Like, what's your favorite video game of all time?

• 50:54Speaker 02

  I am a video game person, but I'm old school.

• 50:58Josh Horowitz?

  That's okay. Me too.

• 50:59Speaker 02

  I love, I, I love, I love the Atari games. I love Super Mario Brothers. I love, uh, Mrs. Pac-Man. I love, I love, I love all the games that I used to play as a kid at, at Spielberg's office. You know, Pole Position or Galaxy, all that, all those old video games, you know, those arcade games.

• 51:18Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, of course.

• 51:18Speaker 02

  I have one at home. Yeah, I still play those. Yeah.

• 51:21Josh Horowitz?

  I love it.

• 51:22Speaker 02

  Mario Kart, I mean, I love Mario Kart, so.

• 51:25Josh Horowitz?

  What's the wallpaper on your phone?

• 51:29Speaker 02

  Wallpaper on my, oh, yeah, see, now you, it's, it's, it's boring. It's not, it's just, it's just a, uh.

• 51:36Josh Horowitz?

  That's okay. Killian Murphy has just black on his screen. So you have at least the earth there. You have something more interesting.

• 51:43Speaker 02

  Whatever the phone, whatever the phone comes, I'm not very good with technology. So whatever it comes with it, I, I.

• 51:49Josh Horowitz?

  Right. Have you ever been mistaken for another actor? Is there an actor people get you confused with?

• 51:54Speaker 02

  All the time. And here's this one. And, and I'm, I'm not, I'm not offended by it. In fact, I think it's a compliment. I always get mistaken for, are you ready for this? Are you ready for this?

• 52:08Josh Horowitz?

  I'm not sure if I.

• 52:12Speaker 02

  I always get mistaken for Jackie Chan.

• 52:17Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, that's a high, that's high praise. He's a legend.

• 52:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, he's a legend. And, and, and honestly, what's, what's, to, to me, it's a compliment. Ever since our trailer came out. And, and, and people go, wow, the trailer looks good. The action scenes looks great. He fights like Jackie Chan.

• 52:36Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, come on.

• 52:36Speaker 02

  To me, that's, that's a compliment because, I mean, even though I, I never got to work with him, I always wanted to, it was a dream to work with him, but that's where I got my influence.

• 52:47Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 52:48Speaker 02

  From, as, as a kid, is watching those, you know, eighties Hong Kong action movies from him, from Sam Ohung and Yuan Bell. These three guys to me are, are, you know, they, they, they, they gave us some of the, the best action movies ever.

• 53:04Josh Horowitz?

  Uh, and in the spirit of happy, sad confused, who's an actor that always makes you happy? See them on screen, you're in a better mood automatically.

• 53:14Speaker 02

  I I gotta say Harrison Ford. I'm really happy that he has a new movie coming out, you know. Our Love Hurts comes out on February 7th. So fingers crossed, you know, I hope the audience go and support it. And then Captain America comes out a week after. So I always say this, I I want to be number one on our opening weekend. And the following weekend, I'm happy, I'm more than happy.

• 53:43Josh Horowitz?

  Share the wealth.

• 53:44Speaker 02

  I would tell and I would tell all my fans to go watch Captain America because one, I love him. And second, I love Marvel, but before they do that, they need to watch Love Hurts first.

• 53:55Josh Horowitz?

  You have a one week window. Make sure we get Love Hurts 2, guys. Um, a movie that makes you sad, what movie always makes you sad?

• 54:04Speaker 02

  You mean that always makes me sad, like like one specific movie?

• 54:08Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, is there is there one? Are you a Pixar? Are you, you know, you're Wong Kar Wai in the mood for love? I don't know, like, is there a that tugs at your heartstrings?

• 54:24Speaker 02

  I love an Italian movie called Cinema Paradiso.

• 54:28Josh Horowitz?

  Well, great, great choice.

• 54:30Speaker 02

  I watch that all the time and I've listened to that soundtrack.

• 54:35Josh Horowitz?

  Angelo.

• 54:37Speaker 02

  Anya Morricone.

• 54:39Josh Horowitz?

  Anya Morricone, the late, great Anya Morricone. That is one of the great soundtracks of all time. Yes, yes.

• 54:43Speaker 02

  Yes, I at one at one point in my in my in my life, that's always playing in the background.

• 54:51Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 54:51Speaker 02

  Uh, I love that movie. Uh, it's beautifully made. That soundtrack is incredible. Again, this is just like, that's what comes to my mind. Uh, but, um, yeah, Cinema Paradiso.

• 55:04Josh Horowitz?

  And finally, a food that makes you confused, Key. You don't understand why people enjoy this and eat this. What food makes you confused?

• 55:13Speaker 02

  Ooh. What food? Give me some, give me some ideas, give me some ideas. Cause I love food. I eat, I eat anything and everything.

• 55:21Josh Horowitz?

  I'm a big fan of food too. But like, is there, like, I don't know, I, I have my things, mushrooms, beets, uh, sour cream. I know there are things that I just, I just don't like. I just don't see what the appeal is.

• 55:33Speaker 02

  Okay, I'm gonna say this. I hope I don't get, I don't, I don't, I hope people don't, don't hate me for it. Uh, honestly, I love all kinds of food, right? I'm a meat lover. I also love vegetables. Kale. I don't like kale.

• 55:48Josh Horowitz?

  It's okay.

• 55:48Speaker 02

  I don't, I've never, I've never, I've never, um, enjoyed it.

• 55:54Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, well, who would be like, I love, kale's more of like, it's good for you.

• 55:58Speaker 02

  Tomatoes I love. Yeah, but kale is good for you, but I, but it's just not for me.

• 56:02Josh Horowitz?

  No, I get it. It's not controversial. You're in a safe place. Um, congratulations on all the success. Well deserved. Uh, I was so excited when this one came around that we could catch up on this and so, and, and, and you're always honestly such an inspiration to talk to. I don't know if you're thinking about a memoir, you should be writing this all down because you can be, you already are such an inspiration, I'm sure, to other actors out there. Um, but just to hear you tell your story in different ways is always fantastic. Uh, everybody check out Love Hurts, February 7th. Give some love. And then, yeah, then you can support Harrison Ford and his seven trillion dollars of movies the week after.

• 56:38Speaker 02

  Yes, please go, go, go watch our little movie in the theater. It would mean the world to me. And Josh, honestly, I, I think the first podcast that I ever did, if I, if my memory serves me right, it's yours.

• 56:51Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, wow.

• 56:52Speaker 02

  Happy, happy, sad, confused. I think that was my first ever podcast and, and ever since I, I did yours, uh, I've grown to love it. Uh, so many people reached out and, and told me that they've heard our, you know, uh, uh, our episode. Uh, and yes, I, I really enjoyed talking to you. You are incredible.

• 57:10Josh Horowitz?

  Right back at you. It's always a pleasure. Thank you, sir.

• 57:13Speaker 02

  Thank you, Josh.

• 57:16Speaker 03

  And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley and I definitely wasn't ready to do this by Josh.

• 57:35Speaker 00

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