68. Jen Batchelor: The Real Reason You're Burned Out (And It's Not Your Job)

Most people are treating stress with the wrong tools, and it's silently sabotaging their longevity. In this episode of Extend, I sit down with Jen Batchelor, Ayurvedic health optimizer and co-founder of Kin Euphorics, to talk about what your nervous system actually needs to feel calm, connected, and well. We dive into what adaptogens are really doing in your body, why saffron might be one of the most powerful neuroprotective tools available, and how homeostasis—not hustle—is the key to better energy and long-term health. We also explore the hidden costs of loneliness, the biology behind joy, and why redefining pleasure might be the most underrated health hack of all. Jen Batchelor is the co-founder of Kin Euphorics, a non-alcoholic beverage company blending adaptogens, nootropics, and ritual to support mood, connection, and recovery We Also Discuss: Adaptogens aren't supplements—they're system whisperers Saffron for your brain? Yep, it's a thing The 30-second nervous system reset you're not doing She went from desert moonshine to alcohol-free empire Longevity hack? Real connection > green juice Use code EXTEND20 to get 20% off at kineuphorics.com https://www.kineuphorics.com/. Thank You to Our Sponsors: Timeline: Upgrade your energy from within! MitoPure by Timeline helps power up your cells, supporting muscle strength, mental clarity, and overall vitality. Stay active, sharp, and strong at any age! Deliverance: Give your liver the care it deserves! Deliverance is a powerful plant-based formula designed to support and restore liver health. Get 10% off your first order with code DRSHAH at loveyourliver.com https://loveyourliver.com Learn more about Dr. Shah: Website: https://www.drshah.com/ Clinic: https://www.next-health.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/darshanshahmd/ Learn more about Jen Batchelor: Website:https://www.kineuphorics.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kineuphorics/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jenofkin

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:03Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Welcome to Extend with me, Dr. Darshan Shah, a podcast dedicated to cutting-edge science, research, tools, and protocols designed to help you extend your health span. Having become one of the youngest doctors in the country at the age of 21, and trained and board-certified at the Mayo Clinic, I've accumulated three decades of practice as a board-certified surgeon and longevity expert. Over that time, I've discovered that a mere 20% of health knowledge yields 80% of the results when it comes to your health span. We're living in a new era where we are creating a new healthcare system, no longer focused on disease management, but achieving optimal health and vitality. Join me as I interview world-renowned experts, offering you a step-by-step guide to proactively avoid disease, and most importantly, extend your health span.

• 0:49Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Thanks for coming, Jen, all the way from Austin.

• 0:51Speaker 01

  I'm so happy to be here. Thank you for having me.

• 0:54Dr. Darshan Shah?

  I've known you for a while now. This has been a long time coming.

• 0:57Speaker 01

  I know it. Congratulations on Extend. I've listened to every episode. It's enlightening.

• 1:02Dr. Darshan Shah?

  You have listened to every episode?

• 1:03Speaker 01

  I've listened to almost every episode at this point. Yes. I love it.

• 1:06Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Rate and review.

• 1:08Speaker 01

  I really will. I really will. I was just telling you about Caleb Barnes' episode. I thought it was like next level. Everyone should hear about it.

• 1:13Dr. Darshan Shah?

  She's amazing. I was really happy to have her. And you as well now. So thank you for joining. I mean, you've done so much in your entrepreneurial and health and wellness journey, so I'm so excited to dive into all of it.

• 1:25Speaker 01

  Thank you. Yeah, it's layered.

• 1:27Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, it really, it really is. Well, you know, before we get started on some of the pointed questions I have for you, I'd love for you to just tell our audience a little bit about your expertise and your story, and how you got to where you are right now in this chair with me.

• 1:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, so by trade, I'm an Ayurvedic health optimizer. I don't call myself a clinician. I don't have a practice. I got into Ayurvedic medicine specifically around the subject of trauma and addiction and how we tend to experience pleasure. Coming off of either childhood traumas or even adult life traumas. Um, and how we can sort of reframe our experience of bliss as adults through lifestyle and sort of health optimization. So that was like my very sort of micro specialty and thing that I, I, I focused on during my, my time studying. I kicked that off, um, in about 2015, so almost 10 years ago.

• 2:18Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 2:18Speaker 01

  And so that was kind of my like ancient wisdom, you know, entry to, to biohacking, if you will. And then outside of that was already sort of experimenting with nootropics and, you know, enhancing cognition through supplementation and, and lifestyle exercise. So a lot of it has been sort of in practice, study, and of course, like writing and now experimenting with these drinks that we're creating. Um, but my story goes back long before that. I mean, you know, I lost my grandmother to type two diabetes. Uh, she wasn't even six years old when, when we lost her. And it was an eye opening experience for me. That's really when I started my personal health journey. Um, just because there's so much fodder around type two being associated with obesity.

• 3:03Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 3:04Speaker 01

  And Annie was, you know, 93 pounds wet when she passed. So it just told me, you know, uh, being skinny, being thin, especially as a woman, right? Cause we're, we're sort of told that that is the picture of health and that is the ultimate goal and aspiration. But that showed me that being skinny really doesn't mean much if you're malnourished.

• 3:23Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Absolutely.

• 3:24Speaker 01

  You know, so that was eye opening for me and then began a journey of, of health optimization. My first sort of deep dive that, uh, was into this book. Have you, have you read this book, um, the pH miracle?

• 3:35Dr. Darshan Shah?

  No, no, I haven't read it.

• 3:37Speaker 01

  So it's a couple of, um, coaches. So that one MD sort of nutritionist and, and his wife who, um, trained Olympians utilizing things like rhodiola rosea, uh, and other ingredients that were really aiming to balance pH. And they were able to show through these series of protocols that, you know, performance could be enhanced and stamina can be enhanced. Um, and, but when you really pull it back outside of just like the sort of pH, you know, regimen, uh, it's really just about getting good sleep.

• 4:10Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 4:10Speaker 01

  You know?

• 4:13Speaker 01

  Not drinking copious amounts of alcohol and create physical exertion, really pushing the body to its limit.

• 4:19Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, no, you're absolutely right about that. You know, there's so much unpacked there, but one thing I do want to say is your background in Ayurveda, because my father also was an Ayurvedic physician in India. And I think we're at this point in kind of the talk around medicine and health and all of this, where it's coming back into the mainstay of what people are thinking as a valid treatment modality. I think for many years, especially when I went to medical school, we were basically taught to poo poo plants and other forms of herbs as medicines. And the reason for that was because there weren't massive randomized controlled trials on one single molecule, like we do for pharmaceuticals, right? And so I think there's a massive reversal in the thought process going on right now,

• 5:01Dr. Darshan Shah?

  where we are recognizing that plants and herbs and all the things we talk about in ancient Chinese medicine and also Ayurvedic medicine, these are organisms that we've lived with since the dawn of humanity. And they've interacted with our biology since then. And yes, I mean, for thousands of years, we've been using these as the only therapeutics out there, and they do have an effect. And what I always like to say about using plants and Ayurveda is that there are effects, and then there's side effects that are positive as well, not just negative side effects, right? With pharmaceuticals, we talk about negative side effects, but with Ayurveda, there's more positive side effects, and they have multiple actions in your biology as well.

• 5:42Speaker 01

  Absolutely. And it's so funny, because Ayurveda so often gets discounted as a soft science.

• 5:47Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 5:47Speaker 01

  Right? Like something akin to yoga. And really, when you look back, there's 3,500 years of documentation going back, you know, eons, that speak to, or millennia, that speak to surgery. I mean, they have an entire book of plastic surgery that they're performing. And alchemy, right? Working with metals and seeing how that impacts the blood. I mean, it was just, it's fascinating to know that they were doing some of these biohacking techniques all those years ago. And unfortunately, you know, a lot of that was lost during the colonialization of India. You know, the Brits were kind of like, well, that's, that's just, you know, not sophisticated.

• 6:26Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 6:27Speaker 01

  Um, they didn't take the time to realize, wow, there's a whole compendium of knowledge here that we could potentially integrate. So it took us getting all the way to, you know, the two thousands for us to say, wait a second, this actually has some scientific basis.

• 6:38Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 6:39Speaker 01

  And the challenge with us, you know, all of our, our products incorporate adaptogens. That's something that even in my practice, I would always bring into the mix because of its incredible ability to help regulate the nervous system, lower stress and cortisol. And so, you know, it's interesting because if you look at all the scientific studies and I've spoken to some people that have sort of done, you know, controlled studies around adaptogens. They're like, we just don't understand how they work.

• 7:04Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 7:04Speaker 01

  Because they're so good at adapting.

• 7:06Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yes.

• 7:07Speaker 01

  To the system, the internal, you know, whether it's whatever's happening with the nervous system, chemical signals, the biome. They're unable to do a controlled study.

• 7:16Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 7:16Speaker 01

  Because they're so fluid and flexible on how they respond to us as individuals. And so that's what I love about them though.

• 7:24Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 7:25Speaker 01

  I always refer to them as like little scuba divers where like they're going in and they're looking for kind of like Niagen, right? It's looking for what needs healing.

• 7:34Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 7:34Speaker 01

  Um, and what needs balancing. And so that's why we work so heavily with the, the main known adaptogens out there.

• 7:40Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, and I would love to dive more into adaptogens. I think that's a really important topic that we haven't really covered a lot in this podcast. So you being the expert and, you know, being able to understand or help us understand what adaptogens are. So can we take it a step back and just? What's the definition of an adaptogen?

• 7:56Speaker 01

  So an adaptogen is, and there's about 12 known adaptogens that have been sort of studied and used, um, that we work with. So it's anything if you know about Ashwagandha or Rhodiola rosea, some folks use ginseng. Safran is an incredible adaptogen as well. Most of them are plant-based that we work with. All of them are either, um, botanicals or even from the fungi community, right? And so what they do, they have two main functions. One, that they actually adapt to whatever's happening with your system. So they kind of go in, they find where. There might be elevated levels of cortisol, for example, and they try to create homeostasis.

• 8:36Speaker 01

  They do this, there's a, right, if you could explain obviously to your audience about hormesis.

• 8:42Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 8:42Speaker 01

  But the idea that, you know, we're actually going in and being able to create a balance of the stress. So you actually, you experience perhaps chronic or acute stress, which can come from environmental factors, physical factors, psychological factors, and create balance through this, this means of communicating with this adaptogenic, you know, healing property.

• 9:04Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 9:05Speaker 01

  In the case of rhodiola, it looks at how you react to stress. If you are, you know, your heart rate's elevated or you're sort of breathing in a more shallow manner, less oxygen is able to be introduced to the brain, right? You're not breathing deeply freely. And so what it'll do is it'll stimulate that. It'll allow for more oxygen to be absorbed in the brain and kind of create a sense of balance and a sense of calm over time. So that's one function, sort of that immediate benefit that you get. And then over time, it helps you through that hormetic process become more resilient to stress and helped you adapt to your environment. So it's the adaptation of yourself and then it's the plant adapting to you. So it's very much a symbiotic relationship in that sense.

• 9:48Dr. Darshan Shah?

  I love it. So some of the adaptogens that are out there, like you mentioned ashwagandha, so let's just use that as an example. I think ashwagandha is probably one of the best studied of all of the adaptogens, right? And so when would someone take ashwagandha, for example?

• 10:02Speaker 01

  So ashwagandha, at least in my practice, I see it mostly as a stimulant. A lot of people use it as, you know, to increase stamina while also, you know, trying to feel relaxed. In my Ayurvedic practice, you know, we kind of see it, they always talk about it almost like the hair of the horse, right? Where, you know, you're, you're able to feel, or the bull, where you're able to feel sort of strong but steady at the same time. And so I know a lot of folks that take it at night. I can't, it actually keeps me up at night, but I love it in the morning. We like to pair it in some cases with like a reishi mushroom, which is another adaptogen. And so having that sort of physical stamina, that mental stamina, but also feeling sort of calm and centered in terms of your nervous system and adrenals.

• 10:48Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And is this something someone would take like on a daily basis? Or is this something you take when you need it? When you need, you know, some strength, some stamina? Or how do you think about that?

• 10:57Speaker 01

  I like, I take it every other day. I don't like ashwagandha, you know, every single day. I think for me, it's really about the dosing, you know, at the end of the day. Um, our, all of our drinks and how we think about dosing is, is, you know, if you're, especially with adaptogens and some of the nootropics that we use, if you're consuming something in a recreational setting, we want you to have it at like 15 to 25% of your daily dose because you're going to be enjoying it and sort of sessioning it or sipping it over time. And so I want you to be at 100% when you're done with three or four servings.

• 11:31Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 11:32Speaker 01

  Um, and so some people actually just take maybe one can or two cans, which is half your daily dose. And they'll do that, you know, in the afternoon and every other day perhaps. It does build up in the bloodstream, you know, there are some, and this is the case with every supplement, but you know, some concerns about how is the health of your liver, right? We want to make sure that you're able to process these, these supplements because they are ruddy and they create a sense of, of strength. I mean, you want to be able to move them through the system.

• 11:59Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah. And then rhodiola was another one that you had mentioned, right? When would someone take rhodiola, for example?

• 12:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, so rhodiola is something that we introduced into our happy hour elixir, for example. It is something, as I mentioned, that has actually been studied in, I believe it's Russian Olympians.

• 12:14Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Really?

• 12:14Speaker 01

  Were using it to train. And so they were doing a heavy dose and they were doing it every single day. So it really depends. I, I love rhodiola for physical exertion as well. And so I do take that on a daily basis. But, you know, again, I think it all boils down to what you're dealing with and, you know, the level of physical activity that you're doing. I try to work out, you know, four to five times a week. And that's something that I feel I have seen a noticeable change in my ability to go longer, harder. So it just increases that stamina, um, you know, and that perseverance.

• 12:44Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right, right. And then what are some of the adaptogens that help you maybe relax or calm or sleep better?

• 12:51Speaker 01

  So I love reishi mushroom for that, for that exact purpose. Saffron too is an interesting one. Again, from an Ayurvedic perspective, saffron has been used for, for millennia as a prevention for neurodegeneration. So you think about Alzheimer's, even Parkinson's, what it's doing is it's increasing neuroplasticity. I mean, it's amazing. And you could do it with just, they recommend, you know, the Ayurvedic recommendation is literally just one, you know, one piece, one tinge. So I find those two to be incredibly effective at just helping me feel centered and helping me relax.

• 13:23Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah. In my Indian household, my mom would put saffron in the tea and specifically the afternoon tea would have the saffron in it. And so that was, and just one piece. And then you would, you know, you'd feel all these benefits. And like I said, there's like no real side effect that's negative. It just, it tastes great. It smells beautiful.

• 13:41Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 13:42Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And it does cause some biological effect. And I think that, you know, my kind of point and kind of running through some of these is there's so many of these. You said there's 12 adaptogens that you guys look at?

• 13:52Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 13:53Dr. Darshan Shah?

  What are some of the other ones that just, if you can give me a little bit of a list?

• 13:56Speaker 01

  So if you've worked with, Knax, ginseng is another one that's, that's considered. Shisandra. So another interesting, shisandra is a berry. It's actually a teeny tiny little berry. From an Ayurvedic perspective, it's known to contain all six tastes. It's incredible for fertility, but if you think about all six tastes combined, it's sort of like that centrifugal that, that pulls all of, you know, if you're in balance in one direction or another, it's going to remind you of what it is to feel whole. And so that's kind of the lore around shisandra. Great. So shisandra, rhodiola, reishi, ginseng, ashwagandha. I mean, the list goes on and on.

• 14:34Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah. That's a great, that's a great starting point for people to think about because I don't think many people incorporate adaptogens into their lifestyle. And they're so powerful and they have, like you said, hundreds of years of use and research behind them. And people should think more about adapting them or putting, making them part of their lifestyle. And you mentioned something that I think a lot of people need to also understand is this concept of homeostasis, right? And well, I'll let you describe it because I think you do an incredible job and I'll maybe add a couple of points to that.

• 15:04Speaker 01

  Thank you. Please. Yeah. After all, you are the MD in the room.

• 15:07Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Well, you know, M Ds all learn a lot about homeostasis in medical school. You know, as far as how it affects your mental health, your day to day life, you you learn about it as it's a requirement of the cell to be in homeostasis. But how does that translate into your day to day life? We don't learn that part of it. So I'd love to have you kind of describe some of that.

• 15:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, so you think about stasis, literally, the Latin translation of stasis is being within the self. Right, static within the self. And so the question of, you know, being outside of that is any deviation that's taking you into a direction where, you know, your adrenals are are going haywire, you're you're out of some sort of balance, right? And so we all sort of experience that almost from the moment we wake up.

• 15:50Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 15:50Speaker 01

  Depending on our habits. And so these vitiations that are created from chronic, you know, exposure to to the wrong light at the wrong time, right? Light frequencies, we talk a lot about, blue light, red light, you know, to just checking your email in the morning. So trying to get someone back to stasis where, you know, you have a regulated heart rate, your blood pressure is is right in the pocket of where you want it to be, right? That for us is an act of, we we leverage a lot of adaptogens to get us there, to bring us into this this centered state of balance, right? Where you really are able to have a fully regulated, and this is anecdotal, you can you can check in with yourself to see, is my nervous system regulated? Right?

• 16:35Speaker 01

  Am I able to sit and sort of, even looking out at the horizon, am I able to get a sense of wholeness of the self? And that translates translates internally to a sense of, you know, I'm back in balance, I'm not, you know, dealing with any sort of vitiation that's moving me away from my center or feeling diseased in this moment, right? Even a headache is a signal that we're out of stasis.

• 16:58Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 16:59Speaker 01

  So.

• 17:00Dr. Darshan Shah?

  You know, I um, I have made homeostasis more about, more of a conversation I have with my patients now because it's really getting into the mindset of checking in with yourself. Almost on a, I would say, three or four times a day, you should be doing this, right? And so if you're not feeling that you're in homeostasis, you're definitely not biologically in homeostasis. And so I think it's really important for people to make this part of their daily kind of mental routine. Do you do this on a regular basis during your day?

• 17:29Speaker 01

  Absolutely, yeah. And that's, that's one of the things that I love to remind folks. It's, it's simple. It's literally, do you place a hand on your heart and you just check in with yourself, right? Close your eyes and visualize yourself in a space. And ask yourself from head to toe, what's going on with me right now? It doesn't have to, you know, it takes literally less than 30 seconds to do. But it's so critical because of the way that we're living our lives right now. We're so distracted and there's so many things to do at every given moment. You look around, people are walking and on their phone.

• 17:59Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Absolutely.

• 18:00Speaker 01

  Right? And so they're completely disassociated from what their body, minds and hearts are doing. And how could you know what you're needing if you don't even know what you're doing?

• 18:10Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 18:11Speaker 01

  So that's, you know, one area that we always try to promote with the work that we do is just check in with self, check in with others. You know, if somebody is checking in with you, it kind of pulls you back into, wait, how am I doing today?

• 18:22Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yes, yes, absolutely. And so on that note, like, what are some of the things, once you check in with yourself and you feel like things are off, besides, you know, taking an adaptogen, what are some of the other things that people can do to kind of get themselves re-centered?

• 18:37Speaker 01

  I mean, I think my go-to, besides drinking a cold can, is just a deep breath.

• 18:43Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 18:43Speaker 01

  Breath work is one of the quickest, fastest ways to change your, to change your stasis and elevate your mood. And so I think that's one area where it's like, remember to breathe deep. So many of us are running ragged. If you really check in with your, the way that you're breathing, it's typically shallow.

• 18:58Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 18:59Speaker 01

  And so doing that for sure, as I mentioned, looking up, just checking your surroundings, you know, enjoying the sunlight for a minute. Those are all things that I think are incredibly important. Music is my favorite drug. So if you really need a shift in mood, just throw something on and really allow yourself to re-center, right? It's just the simple things.

• 19:18Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, no, that's all fantastic advice. I'm a huge fan of doing many sessions of breath work throughout the day, even if it's just 10 breaths, I think can make a massive difference because like you said, you know, sometimes you check in with yourself and you feel that you are not centered and the breath work can help you get there. But also when you're doing breath work, you're checking in with yourself as well.

• 19:38Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 19:39Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And so if you just kind of get into a routine three or four times a day to do that, can have a massive change in your physiology. And I've seen that with some of my patients and even myself personally, using, you mentioned blood pressure, average heart rate for the day, even morning heart rate and also HRV.

• 19:55Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 19:55Dr. Darshan Shah?

  You can see a big difference in those numbers after just three or four weeks of putting a breath work practice into place.

• 20:01Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 20:01Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 20:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:02Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And I think also not looking at it as like kind of a to-do. You know, in this whole biohacking world, we have all these to-dos, like I gotta get in the sauna for 20 minutes today.

• 20:10Speaker 01

  Checklist.

• 20:10Dr. Darshan Shah?

  I gotta, I gotta cold plunge for three minutes. It's like your checklist of things to do. But the breath work, even though it is something to do, it's more of a, like you said, a centering exercise where you're checking in with yourself, looking at it in that way and changing your mindset around it can be much more powerful.

• 20:27Speaker 01

  That's 100%. And I keep, you know, mantras sort of everywhere too, just as a reminder. When I go and I think about this mantra, one of my big ones is make today your masterpiece.

• 20:37Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Hmm, I love that.

• 20:38Speaker 01

  It's hard for me to be stressed and breathing shallow when I'm trying to connect with this intention.

• 20:43Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yes.

• 20:43Speaker 01

  So when I say it out loud, I repeat it to myself. I'm also breathing as I'm saying it, right? So creating that reconnection to what my purpose and intention is.

• 20:52Dr. Darshan Shah?

  No, that's beautiful. How did you find that mantra?

• 20:54Speaker 01

  Oh my gosh.

• 20:57Speaker 01

  Actually, it's a, it's a sports, um, this is a story from sports. I can't remember the name of the coach. Maybe we can look it up. This is like, I, I was envisioning this as being like Joe Rogan where I can be like, Meg.

• 21:10Dr. Darshan Shah?

  We need that guy here that looks things up for us while we sit here and wait.

• 21:16Speaker 01

  It's like fetus's information. Uh, but he was saying, was speaking, I think it was a coach of the Lakers and, um, he was speaking about how, you know, these guys didn't just come out and, you know, play a game and miraculously earn points. Every single time they hit the court, it's make today your masterpiece. Whatever I can do today. Forget what happened yesterday. Forget what happened in the last game. This is the only time that matters. And so that's a big one, especially as a mom that, you know, ridden with mom guilt. And as an entrepreneur and as somebody who does consider themselves, you know, a healer and a student, we're always making mistakes. But if you're only dwelling on that, that rumination can get in the way of progress. And so that's one that always comes back to me.

• 21:58Dr. Darshan Shah?

  I love that.

• 21:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:03Dr. Darshan Shah?

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• 22:48Dr. Darshan Shah?

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• 23:08Dr. Darshan Shah?

  At my practice at Nex Health, I'm often amazed by how many of my patients have liver health issues. It turns out that 38% of Americans have fatty liver disease, and most people have no idea. You wouldn't really know until you do something like a liver scan using ultrasound shear wave technology, which we offer to all of our patients at Nex Health to get a good idea of how much damage has been done from metabolic disease and alcohol consumption. This is where a new product called Deliverance comes in. Invented by Siggi Clavien, it uses natural plant extracts that you drink as a liquid shot, which have been shown in studies to prevent and reverse fatty liver disease. I personally have a history of metabolic disease, which I work really hard to keep at bay. I use Deliverance

• 23:52Dr. Darshan Shah?

  myself three times a day to prophylactically make sure that my liver stays healthy. It's super easy to use and actually tastes good, too. You can save 10% on your first order when you use the code DRSHAH, that's D R S H A H, at the website loveyourliver.com.

• 24:15Dr. Darshan Shah?

  So getting back to your story, you learned Ayurveda, you were practicing Ayurveda for a while?

• 24:20Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 24:20Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And then what made you make this entrepreneurial journey into founding this incredible drink company?

• 24:26Speaker 01

  Sure. So, and it goes back before then. I grew up in Saudi Arabia, technically. My dad was...

• 24:31Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Oh, you did?

• 24:32Speaker 01

  Yep. So he worked for Saudiya, and we were expats in a foreign land. But it was incredible. I arrived there right around the first Gulf War.

• 24:41Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Wow.

• 24:42Speaker 01

  And so things were a lot different than they are today. Now you hear about NEOM and everything that's going on with Dubai. But it was really, you know, nothing was there. But the core of my experience was just the first time ever that I felt a true community.

• 24:57Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Wow.

• 24:57Speaker 01

  This sense of family with literally everybody that was around us. We just thrived up and protected each other and cared for each other. And in that process, too, despite my dad having a full-time job. He also was sort of the local bartender. Our home was a local watering hole. It's highly controversial.

• 25:19Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Cause alcohol wasn't really legal in Saudi Arabia.

• 25:23Speaker 01

  Still not legal.

• 25:23Dr. Darshan Shah?

  It's still not legal, right?

• 25:25Speaker 01

  But there was sort of this common practice of people sort of making homebrews and that was sort of, you know, as long as you were doing it respectfully and quietly on the compound, there wasn't really a lot. You know, there was a lot of encouragement for us to try and carry out our Western lifestyles while we were, you know, living in the country while respecting. And I think every single person that I ever came across had a ton of reverence for the culture and the kingdom. I mean, we were there because of them. But there were some gray areas and my dad just happened to be really good at what he did. And he made desert moonshines, which are known as Siddiques and wine and beer. And so I came up in that, literally in a still, basically. And my grandfather, the same. So I'm technically a third generation distiller of spirits.

• 26:10Dr. Darshan Shah?

  That's amazing.

• 26:12Speaker 01

  Mine just happened to be alcohol free.

• 26:16Speaker 01

  But so many influences from that point. I mean, my mom was a Montessori teacher. We picked up a lot of wisdom from even that experience of the other teachers and even the kids in the classrooms in Saudi, from an Ayurvedic perspective, a lot of Indian remedies. I mean, I had pre asthma as a 12 year old and my mom was like just suffering because I wouldn't sleep. I'd cough all the time. And we had this Indian remedy, which I now know to be just like a heavily medicated, like chavon brush, you know? And it's like a molasses, basically. It's just completely infused with the most medicinal, incredible herbs. Where I learned all about bronchial dilators and at a really young age, I was obsessed because I was cured almost immediately. I mean, it took three days for me to never deal with asthma again.

• 27:01Dr. Darshan Shah?

  That's incredible.

• 27:02Speaker 01

  Which was wild. And so again, it was just nourishing that lining. Something had happened that I had been compromised in in that way. But my dad was asthmatic as a kid. And so we just thought genetics, right? And so then you realize, well, actually, if you work with. The remedies and ingredients that work with you.

• 27:20Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 27:20Speaker 01

  Um, that you can actually reverse some of these things. So.

• 27:22Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Wow.

• 27:23Speaker 01

  I've kind of always been turned on by these, you know, homeopathic remedies. I grew up in this, as I mentioned, this sort of like alcohol fueled, community-driven environment. And so I think there was just a lot karmically that drew me to doing this work, even though I didn't know it.

• 27:41Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yes.

• 27:41Speaker 01

  It was sort of like pre-programmed in my subconscious that I would create this. And now, looking back, my dad's actually always saying that I'm like reversing his karmic debt. Because he now knows the impact of alcohol.

• 27:50Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 27:51Speaker 01

  And so it's, it's funny to, to think about carrying on the family lineage in that way. I, this is my third venture. So I think.

• 27:57Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Oh, okay.

• 27:58Speaker 01

  I, I am just sort of a serial entrepreneur and sort of masochist at that. You have to be as a founder.

• 28:05Dr. Darshan Shah?

  It is. Absolutely. As an entrepreneur. You take a lot of punishment.

• 28:09Speaker 01

  Yes, big time.

• 28:10Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yes.

• 28:10Speaker 01

  Um, but this is my, my third and my first in the realm of creating product. So first, first CPG business. But before this, I did have a business that was centered around bringing new wellness modalities and technologies, products and content to the hospitality space. Which is an area, um, and a sort of an industry that was devoid of that, um, for so many years, right? You think about travel and you don't think about like, how do I start a new wellness routine?

• 28:36Dr. Darshan Shah?

  No, no, but now it's all about wellness.

• 28:38Speaker 01

  Now it's all about wellness. Right.

• 28:39Dr. Darshan Shah?

  We have a lot of hotel chains reaching out to us to bring wellness to their hotel chains. So.

• 28:43Speaker 01

  I love it. I love that. Yeah. It was part of a, a pioneering sort of frontier of, of that movement. And, and, you know, I remember walking into the Westin or, or having conversation with these sort of privately held REITs where I'd say, hey, listen, if you're going to be rolling out these boutique properties, take advantage, allow the boutique, allow the property itself to be a social haven for people. And in that, have it be well-rounded, have it introduced, you know, because you know, the psychological implications of travel and the behavioral economics behind.

• 29:15Speaker 01

  When you're in a new space, you're probably more apt to try new things, right? Your brain is not sort of looking for that pattern recognition. It's actually seeking out new adventures. And so why not make wellness an adventure? Why not make it a ritual? Why not make it an amenity? That is aspirational, luxurious. And I think a lot of that philosophy is definitely seen now in the work that I do with Finn.

• 29:36Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, no, that's amazing. So in the hotel space, when you're advising these hotels, you know, one of the things that you mentioned is the bar, right? Your dad had a bar, hotels have a bar. And I think part of that is, you know, people feel lonely when they're traveling, usually alone for business, and they go to the bar to seek out some type of social connection, right? Unfortunately, you know, there's alcohol tied with that. But, you know, this whole concept of loneliness, I think, is something I want to touch on with you because part of longevity, which is what I talk about every day on this podcast, is, you know, we talk about a lot of things like adaptogens and we talk about, of course, stress management, homeostasis, then we talk about things like sauna and cryo, all these things that you can take to live longer.

• 30:22Dr. Darshan Shah?

  But the one piece that we don't have a lot of conversation about is how social connection is actually a massive driver of longevity. It might even be one of the biggest drivers of longevity, right? And so, however, we are living in one of the loneliest societies ever in human history right now. So I'd love to get your perspective on that. Like, why are we so lonely?

• 30:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, oh my gosh, it is a loaded question. But, um, social media is a big, big factor in this, right? Because we trick ourselves into believing that we are connected to others. We share an idea. I mean, the, the division and, and also the bandwagoning that you see even surrounding politics on social media, right? Where you, you think, oh my gosh, I'm banding together with this group. And I'm gonna, you know, speak my voice and my truth, and we think we're doing something great for ourselves. And we are, self-expression is incredibly important as well to a sense of fulfillment in life and a sense of purpose and happiness. However, where is that tribe when we need them?

• 31:24Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 31:24Speaker 01

  Where is this social media faceless Instagram handle person who agreed with me last week when I have a flat tire?

• 31:33Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 31:34Speaker 01

  Or I'm ill, right?

• 31:35Dr. Darshan Shah?

  It's not a real person.

• 31:35Speaker 01

  It's not a real person. So, and our brains, you know, we're wired to seek out that true connection and that sense of safety. And so I think just as one of many, many, many modern factors that are driving this sort of loneliness epidemic that we're experiencing, you know, it's a pretty nefarious one, and it's one that is absolutely consuming our younger generations. You know, I was born in eighty-four. I didn't wake up with a phone in my hands, like a lot of these kids today. So, it's a challenge that only we can fix as the grownups in the room, and I think we need to make it a really urgent thing.

• 32:12Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Absolutely.

• 32:13Speaker 01

  You look at, there's a Harvard study, one of the longest ever longitudinal studies out there on aging, right, and health, and they say genes are nice, right?

• 32:24Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 32:25Speaker 01

  G E N E S.

• 32:25Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 32:26Speaker 01

  But joy is better.

• 32:27Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 32:28Speaker 01

  And when they go back to what is the driver of true joy and living a long, healthy, happy life, and it's social connection and relationship.

• 32:37Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, they studied, I think people now, it's been like eighty years, have been studying the same group of people, right? And social connection was a primary driver of longevity.

• 32:46Speaker 01

  Absolutely. They were even saying you can experience hardship, you can experience childhood trauma, you can experience disease, but so long as you are building healthy, satisfying relationship in your thirties and forties, that is sort of the big biomarker, that is sort of the leading indicator as to whether or not you're gonna be able to arrive at that octogenarian moment in your life. And so, that's, and happily so.

• 33:12Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 33:13Speaker 01

  You know? And so I think that's the big thing, is we all wanna live longer lives, you all wanna add one year of life to our lives with every passing day, but it's to what end?

• 33:23Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 33:23Speaker 01

  Right? Do we wanna be joyful in that? And then we need to start nurturing relationship.

• 33:28Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, absolutely. You know, one of the things that a lot of people talk about now is health span versus lifespan, right? And I think who wants to add years to their life if the last 20 years is spent being lonely, alone, without great connections? No one wants that, right? And so I think building those social connections earlier, the better, and being able to maintain them and strengthen them over time.

• 33:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:52Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Well, Jen, thank you so much for joining me. It's been a fantastic conversation. Where can people find you and learn more about your teachings?

• 34:00Speaker 01

  Personally, I'm Jen of Ken on all channels. I'm trying to get my TikTok going, so find me there. I'll be doing a lot more storytelling and experiments there. I think one of the fun things about Ken early days was you'd publish our, you know, our logs, our formulation logs and things that we're learning, taking out and putting back in. And so I'm going to be doing a lot more of that. So I encourage everyone to sort of build product alongside me there. And then CanYouForex on every other channel to find the brand.

• 34:26Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Beverages, yeah.

• 34:27Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 34:27Dr. Darshan Shah?

  I love it.

• 34:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:28Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Well, thank you very much for joining me today. And can't wait to have you on again.

• 34:32Speaker 01

  This is so fun. I'd love to.

• 34:34Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 34:34Speaker 01

  Cheers.

• 34:35Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Thank you.

• 34:38Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Thank you so much for listening to the podcast today. Please remember to subscribe if you like this episode and give us a good review and share a link with your friends. It really helps to support all of our efforts. I also want to remind you that the information shared on this podcast is for educational purposes only and is not intended to replace professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Please consult with your healthcare provider or physician before making any decisions or taking any action based on what you hear today, especially if you have any underlying health conditions or on any medications. Your doctor knows your personal health situation the best, and it's always important to seek their guidance.